From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Fri Sep 4 16:07:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DBB3A67CC for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70JB1t4xjipN for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE6F3A6858 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066CB7841FE; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7gSodd9oKn1w; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B919C7841F7; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C377841F7 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BDn3FKQWa18s for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (sca-es-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.43.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D9C7841F4 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n84N75g3022280 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:07:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPG00900YS5T400@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.18.127.225] ([unknown] [192.18.127.225]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPG001I2YVQHR30@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:07:48 -0700 From: Satya Vempati To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Message-id: <4AA19DC4.4030802@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org According to the text in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3.8.2.3 This property defines the date and time before which a to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a date with local time. Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE has to be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it possible to have to-do's that start and are due on the same day? _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Fri Sep 4 19:14:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F483A69D0 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7hj4hZF7aMki for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BF33A69C9 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E9E79401D; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfZbEEtN3tEp; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4357841F7; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:14:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 885917841F7 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:13:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E76eXRUpEeoU for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.56]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109667841F2 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from OMTA08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.12]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cq8d1c0060Fqzac56qDhAP; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 02:13:41 +0000 Received: from THare ([71.203.105.66]) by OMTA08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cqDi1c0041RyUCv3UqDi2f; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 02:13:43 +0000 From: "Tim Hare" To: "'Satya Vempati'" , Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:13:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcottH0eVkOkgMBXTzmIB8j0TY29NQAGbZXg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <4AA19DC4.4030802@sun.com> Message-Id: <20090905021343.109667841F2@leka.osafoundation.org> Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org It is possible, but in my opinion, that's a case where date AND time should be used, making it easy to have the DUE value be later than the DTSTART value. Tim Hare Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. -----Original Message----- From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Satya Vempati Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:08 PM To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis According to the text in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3.8.2.3 This property defines the date and time before which a to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a date with local time. Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE has to be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it possible to have to-do's that start and are due on the same day? _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Mon Sep 7 01:41:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FC63A6847 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SG-g16yblsv6 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159F93A6A09 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4368079401D; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RdyowA1NC6pX; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA43879401C; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4AD79401C for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A1zdR82KkNix for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rockliffe.com (mail.rockliffe.com [216.34.131.10]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0C37841F7 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Score: 1 X-Spam-Score-scoring_explanation: X-Spam-Score-spf_status: X-Spam-Score-Spamcatcher1: fc7f4ff2d1018d9c77752ba863f3d26a X-Spam-Score-Summary: 2, 0, 0, 1445dd11eb0426d1, a0ea87fb493ec7f7, nigel.swinson@mailsite.com, timhare@comcast.net:satyanarayana.vempati@sun.com:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, RULES_HIT:355:379:539:540:541:542:543:567:599:600:601:800:960:967:972:973:988:989:1155:1261:1277:1311:1313:1314:1345:1437:1515:1516:1518:1534:1542:1587:1593:1594:1711:1714:1730:1747:1766:1792:2073:2076:2377:2393:2525:2551:2553:2559:2563:2682:2685:2828:2857:2859:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3027:3350:3865:3866:3867:3868:3869:3870:3871:3872:3874:3876:3877:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4250:4605:5007:6114:6119:7576:7679:7875:7903:8501:8666:8957:9025:9040:9388:9545, 0, RBL:none, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:, MSBL:none, DNSBL:none X-Spam-Score-rbl_summary: none X-Spam-Score-Phishing_status: no X-Spam-Score-Countries: X-Spam-Score-Charsets: iso-8859-1 Received: from NIGEL08 (unverified [192.168.1.104]) by mail.rockliffe.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 9.2.0) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:41:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Nigel Swinson" To: "Tim Hare" , "'Satya Vempati'" References: <20090905021343.109667841F2@leka.osafoundation.org> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:41:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Sounds like another use case for saying something starts at 11am "ish! and is due by 6pm "ish". Switching from date to date-time implies a degree of precision that might not be appropriate. I'd very much like there to be better options for saying "I've arranged to have dinner with a friend on Tuesday evening", when the start/end time of that event have yet to be firmed up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Hare" To: "'Satya Vempati'" ; Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > It is possible, but in my opinion, that's a case where date AND time > should > be used, making it easy to have the DUE value be later than the DTSTART > value. > > > Tim Hare > Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org > [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Satya Vempati > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:08 PM > To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > > According to the text in > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3.8.2.3 > > This property defines the date and time before which a > to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property > is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a > "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the > same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property > MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. > Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local > time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a > date with local time. > > Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE has > to > be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it possible to > have > to-do's that start and are due on the same day? > > _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Mon Sep 7 10:17:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AC03A69BB for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.134 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.134 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.465, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fCFKFgzcsTHX for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2F23A67A6 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746377841ED; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lu8IO8eiXZdh; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CD577D709; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0BC77D709 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCemGXaRi4em for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.96]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F346677D704 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.20]) by QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dtG41c0020SCNGk59tHHZA; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:17:17 +0000 Received: from THare ([71.203.105.66]) by OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dtHG1c0011RyUCv3VtHGq4; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:17:17 +0000 From: "Tim Hare" To: "'Nigel Swinson'" , "'Satya Vempati'" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:17:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcovlwQrloxQq5UORXe0cjjvMlqkVgAR17RA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090907171717.F346677D704@leka.osafoundation.org> Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org A TODO could start at 00:00 and be due by 23:59 on the same date, which satisfies the requirements as written. I don't know the status of the RCF vis-a-vis changes as I write this, but proposed alternate text if we need it: > This property defines the date and time before which a > to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property > is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a > "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the > same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property > MUST NOT be earlier in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. > Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local > time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a > date with local time I changed "MUST be later in time" to "MUST NOT be earlier in time" to allow the DTSTART and DUE to be equal, although for most use cases that seems illogical, and I don't necessarily agree with it. Tim Hare Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Swinson [mailto:Nigel.Swinson@mailsite.com] Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:41 AM To: Tim Hare; 'Satya Vempati' Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis Sounds like another use case for saying something starts at 11am "ish! and is due by 6pm "ish". Switching from date to date-time implies a degree of precision that might not be appropriate. I'd very much like there to be better options for saying "I've arranged to have dinner with a friend on Tuesday evening", when the start/end time of that event have yet to be firmed up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Hare" To: "'Satya Vempati'" ; Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > It is possible, but in my opinion, that's a case where date AND time > should be used, making it easy to have the DUE value be later than the > DTSTART value. > > > Tim Hare > Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org > [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Satya > Vempati > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:08 PM > To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > > According to the text in > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3. > 8.2.3 > > This property defines the date and time before which a > to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property > is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a > "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the > same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property > MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. > Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local > time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a > date with local time. > > Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE > has to be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it > possible to have to-do's that start and are due on the same day? > > _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Wed Sep 9 09:31:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E797F28C51F for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.282 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.317, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tdLRpvUlqUtl for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC77728C50A for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05D377D71B; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:31:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10pGQNQipPJ7; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1764F77D714; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D9277D70B for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rngp4rpiiqfC for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09FC077D6F9 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 5855228C16A; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [ietf-calsify] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification Working Group of the IETF. Title : iCalendar Message-Based Interoperability Protocol (iMIP) Author(s) : A. Melnikov Filename : draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2009-9-9 This document, iCalendar Message-Based Interoperability Protocol (iMIP), specifies a binding from the iCalendar Transport-independent Interoperability Protocol (iTIP) to Internet email-based transports. Calendaring entries defined by the iCalendar Object Model (iCAL) are composed using constructs from RFC 5322, RFC 2045, RFC 2046, RFC 2047 and RFC 2049. This document is a product of Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification (calsify) working group. More information about the IETF CALSIFY working group activities can be found on the IETF web site at . The issue tracker for the Calsify WG is located at: A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-9-9092117.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify --NextPart-- From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Wed Sep 9 11:44:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0433A6AF4 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gP-L8GLQ9sPn for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76573A68DE for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4CF77D6F9; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M7ZD+Hb5tJho; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D88677D70B; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2359E77D70B for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kkZ+0ve8ofY3 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (sca-es-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.43.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C5677D6F9 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n89IiIxX014702 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:44:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPP00400VV9Z700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.18.127.225] ([unknown] [192.18.127.225]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPP00H26W1THHC0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:45:00 -0700 From: Satya Vempati In-reply-to: <20090907171717.F346677D704@leka.osafoundation.org> To: Tim Hare Message-id: <4AA7F7AC.7080802@sun.com> References: <20090907171717.F346677D704@leka.osafoundation.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2093753771==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2093753771== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4MqriZ7MOmTsu8hwbGoK3Q)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_4MqriZ7MOmTsu8hwbGoK3Q) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Must not be earlier in time" is in line with RFC 2445, which says The value MUST be a date/time equal to or after the DTSTART value, if specified. and the RFC 2445bis says the value of this property MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. This seems like a gratuitous departure from the old standard. Even though this is a small matter, it is important to get the words right. Tim Hare wrote: > A TODO could start at 00:00 and be due by 23:59 on the same date, which > satisfies the requirements as written. > > I don't know the status of the RCF vis-a-vis changes as I write this, but > proposed alternate text if we need it: > > >> This property defines the date and time before which a >> to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property >> is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a >> "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the >> same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property >> MUST NOT be earlier in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. >> Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local >> time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a >> date with local time >> > > I changed "MUST be later in time" to "MUST NOT be earlier in time" to allow > the DTSTART and DUE to be equal, although for most use cases that seems > illogical, and I don't necessarily agree with it. > > Tim Hare > Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nigel Swinson [mailto:Nigel.Swinson@mailsite.com] > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:41 AM > To: Tim Hare; 'Satya Vempati' > Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > > Sounds like another use case for saying something starts at 11am "ish! and > is due by 6pm "ish". Switching from date to date-time implies a degree of > precision that might not be appropriate. I'd very much like there to be > better options for saying "I've arranged to have dinner with a friend on > Tuesday evening", when the start/end time of that event have yet to be > firmed up. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Hare" > To: "'Satya Vempati'" ; > > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:13 AM > Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis > > > >> It is possible, but in my opinion, that's a case where date AND time >> should be used, making it easy to have the DUE value be later than the >> DTSTART value. >> >> >> Tim Hare >> Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org >> [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Satya >> Vempati >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:08 PM >> To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org >> Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis >> >> According to the text in >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3. >> 8.2.3 >> >> This property defines the date and time before which a >> to-do is expected to be completed. For cases where this property >> is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a >> "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the >> same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property >> MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property. >> Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local >> time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a >> date with local time. >> >> Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE >> has to be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it >> possible to have to-do's that start and are due on the same day? >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-calsify mailing list > ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify > --Boundary_(ID_4MqriZ7MOmTsu8hwbGoK3Q) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Must not be earlier in time" is in line with RFC 2445, which says

The value MUST be a date/time equal to or after the DTSTART value, if specified.

and the RFC 2445bis says
the value of this property MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property.
This seems like a gratuitous departure from the old standard. Even though this is a small matter, it is important  to get the words right.


Tim Hare wrote: 
A TODO could start at 00:00 and be due by 23:59 on the same date, which
satisfies the requirements as written.

I don't know the status of the RCF vis-a-vis changes as I write this, but
proposed alternate text if we need it:

  
This property defines the date and time before which a
     to-do is expected to be completed.  For cases where this property
     is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a
     "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the
     same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property
     MUST NOT be earlier in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property.
     Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local
     time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a
     date with local time
    

I changed "MUST be later in time" to "MUST NOT be earlier in time" to allow
the DTSTART and DUE to be equal, although for most use cases that seems
illogical, and I don't necessarily agree with it.

Tim Hare
Interested Bystander, Non-Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Swinson [mailto:Nigel.Swinson@mailsite.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:41 AM
To: Tim Hare; 'Satya Vempati'
Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org
Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis

Sounds like another use case for saying something starts at 11am "ish! and
is due by 6pm "ish".  Switching from date to date-time implies a degree of
precision that might not be appropriate.  I'd very much like there to be
better options for saying "I've arranged to have dinner with a friend on
Tuesday evening", when the start/end time of that event have yet to be
firmed up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Hare" <TimHare@comcast.net>
To: "'Satya Vempati'" <Satyanarayana.Vempati@Sun.COM>;
<ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis


  
It is possible, but in my opinion, that's a case where date AND time 
should be used, making it easy to have the DUE value be later than the 
DTSTART value.


Tim Hare
Interested Bystander, Non-Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org
[mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Satya 
Vempati
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:08 PM
To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org
Subject: [ietf-calsify] Clarification on DUE in TODO's in rfc2445bis

According to the text in
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10#section-3.
8.2.3

This property defines the date and time before which a
     to-do is expected to be completed.  For cases where this property
     is specified in a "VTODO" calendar component that also specifies a
     "DTSTART" property, the value type of this property MUST be the
     same as the "DTSTART" property, and the value of this property
     MUST be later in time than the value of the "DTSTART" property.
     Furthermore, this property MUST be specified as a date with local
     time if and only if the "DTSTART" property is also specified as a
     date with local time.

Does this mean that even when the DTSTART property type is DATE, DUE 
has to be greater than DTSTART? Why can't they be equal? Isn't it 
possible to have to-do's that start and are due on the same day?


    

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--Boundary_(ID_4MqriZ7MOmTsu8hwbGoK3Q)-- --===============2093753771== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify --===============2093753771==-- From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Thu Sep 10 04:19:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2290B28C149 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.901, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, GB_I_INVITATION=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0mMNK8ChWuUs for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CCB3A6A0F for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19B37841ED; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PiBsDDk7e7qp; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F0A77D715; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121F477D715 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sjl8lzZcpyCx for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D6477D70B for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.132] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:19:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:19:17 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org References: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : iCalendar Message-Based Interoperability Protocol (iMIP) > Author(s) : A. Melnikov > Filename : draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2009-9-9 > > There were only minor changes in this version, namely changing the reference to RFC 2822 to point to RFC 5322, and updated boilerplate. In order to get this document finished, I need to get feedback on the following: >3 Security Considerations > > The security threats that applications must address when implementing > iTIP are detailed in [iTIP]. In particular two spoofing threats are > identified in [iTIP]: Spoofing the "Organizer", and Spoofing an > "Attendee". To address these threats, the originator of an iCalendar > object must be authenticated by a recipient. Once authenticated, a > determination can be made as to whether or not the originator is > authorized to perform the requested operation. Compliant applications > MUST support signing and encrypting text/calendar body parts using a > mechanism based on Security Multiparts for MIME [RFC-1847] to > facilitate the authentication of the originator of the iCalendar > object. The steps for processing a signed iMIP message are described > below: > > 1. The iCalendar object MUST be signed by the "Organizer" sending an > update/initial request or the "Attendee" sending a reply. < person sending on their behalf? Clearly if somebody else is sending > the invitation, she can't sign using the key belonging to the > organizer>> > What do we want to say about the delegated case? > Once a signed and/or encrypted iMIP message is received and > successfully verified (as detailed above) by a CUA, the CUA SHOULD > remember whether the sender of the message is using signing and/or > encrypting. If an unsigned iMIP message is received from the same > sender later on, the receiving CUA SHOULD warn the user about a > possible man-in-the-middle attack and SHOULD ignore the message, > unless explicitly overriden by the user. < notify the other end?>> > I would like to get feedback on whether notifying the other end is a good idea in this case. Thanks, Alexey _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Thu Sep 10 04:22:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C513A699A for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.317 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.317 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.718, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNwAKbp-k+k0 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B58D3A6A1A for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1256D7841F1; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kmiz4HrtW7qD; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411517841EF; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02CD7841EF for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n01Lkgg0rakw for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CB47841ED for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:22:17 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ak8AAAB+qEqQ/uCKe2dsb2JhbACBU5lsAQEWJAanIIhGAZBABYQY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,363,1249257600"; d="scan'208";a="49057092" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Sep 2009 11:22:09 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8ABM9qA007846; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:22:09 +0200 Received: from adsl-247-3-fixip.tiscali.ch (ams3-vpn-dhcp6505.cisco.com [10.61.89.104]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8ABM9Kf005514; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:22:09 GMT Message-ID: <4AA8E161.5030600@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:22:09 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090715 Thunderbird/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexey Melnikov References: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.97a Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=lear@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Thank you, Alexey, for posting this draft. I would ask that people respond as quickly as possible to Alexey's request for feedback. My plan is to start a WGLC on this document within the next three weeks. Eliot _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Thu Sep 10 04:58:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8269C3A6A2B for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:58:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XfZ+lS-e9yYI for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CC83A6A2A for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43137794019; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rp0OxAUy25rp; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5682C7841ED; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748DA7841F0 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDtFOxGjmRe3 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C597841ED for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at (curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.116]) by mail.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n8ABwg6S005402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:58:47 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer Organization: FAM, Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:58:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.11.4 (Linux/2.6.28-15-generic; KDE/4.2.4; i686; ; ) References: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200909101358.53892.reinhold@kainhofer.com> Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 13:19:17 schrieb Alexey Melnikov: > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >directories. [...] > There were only minor changes in this version, namely changing the > reference to RFC 2822 to point to RFC 5322, and updated boilerplate. I see that none of my comments (sent almost a year ago) for the bis-05 draft have been incorporated: http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/Computing/Review_RFC2447bis_2008-10.pdf http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/Computing/Review_RFC2447bis_2008-10.html Among other things, most examples in the draft (also in this bis-06 version) are vCalendar rather than iCalendar files. This means: - -) filename="event.vcs", i.e. vcs file extension is used - -) PROFILE:REQUEST, PROFILE-VERSION:1.0 used - -) due dates of the wrong form DUE:19970701T090000-0700 - -) ATTSTAT attribute instead of PARTSTAT used: ATTENDEE;ROLE=CHAIR;ATTSTAT=ACCEPTED:mailto:foo1@example.com - -) STATUS:NEEDS ACTION instead of STATUS:NEEDS-ACTION Also, the draft speaks of the mime-type "multiple/alternative". Does this mime-type exist at all? Or should it rather be "multipart/alternative"? Cheers, Reinhold - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Reinhold Kainhofer, reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFKqOn6TqjEwhXvPN0RAsRkAKCJzhaCBQ6EheQ9ratkx3oi8O97HACcD/yW Bla3TsFHadObXY+H+lDo70I= =ihfG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Thu Sep 10 05:06:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B3228C140 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.244 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.244 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.245, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tWTOSeqqY2g1 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AB93A6AA5 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DDC7841F5; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FHMykXlZsTAl; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507B67841F0; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C5F7841F0 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xk9ZG0lOBCKB for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FAE7841EF for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.132] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:06:05 +0100 Message-ID: <4AA8EBA3.2040108@isode.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:05:55 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Reinhold Kainhofer References: <20090909163001.5855228C16A@core3.amsl.com> <4AA8E0B5.6050508@isode.com> <200909101358.53892.reinhold@kainhofer.com> In-Reply-To: <200909101358.53892.reinhold@kainhofer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2447bis-06.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 13:19:17 schrieb Alexey Melnikov: > > >>Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> >>>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>directories. >>> >>> >[...] > > >>There were only minor changes in this version, namely changing the >>reference to RFC 2822 to point to RFC 5322, and updated boilerplate. >> >> > > >I see that none of my comments (sent almost a year ago) for the bis-05 draft >have been incorporated: >http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/Computing/Review_RFC2447bis_2008-10.pdf >http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/Computing/Review_RFC2447bis_2008-10.html > My appologies for not paying attention. I will look at your review. >Among other things, most examples in the draft (also in this bis-06 version) >are vCalendar rather than iCalendar files. This means: > >- -) filename="event.vcs", i.e. vcs file extension is used >- -) PROFILE:REQUEST, PROFILE-VERSION:1.0 used >- -) due dates of the wrong form DUE:19970701T090000-0700 >- -) ATTSTAT attribute instead of PARTSTAT used: >ATTENDEE;ROLE=CHAIR;ATTSTAT=ACCEPTED:mailto:foo1@example.com >- -) STATUS:NEEDS ACTION instead of STATUS:NEEDS-ACTION > Ok, I will fix. >Also, the draft speaks of the mime-type "multiple/alternative". Does this >mime-type exist at all? > No, fixed in my copy. Thanks for spotting this. >Or should it rather be "multipart/alternative"? > > Regards, Alexey _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Fri Sep 18 08:37:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033E03A685B for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.28 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.28 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.681, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sBn3AfTU9a6P for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B6628C18E for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8338677D709; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:38:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8CM-lyG5ngHW; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D847841ED; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395BB7841ED for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1nomjSBvWz5 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063FF77D6FE for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlsAAABGs0qQ/uCKe2dsb2JhbACBUplRAQEWJAabDIhQAZAdBYQcgV2CdA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,410,1249257600"; d="scan'208";a="49724365" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2009 15:37:41 +0000 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8IFbfrI028672; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:37:41 +0200 Received: from elear-mac.local (dhcp-10-61-110-163.cisco.com [10.61.110.163]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8IFbfcw004775; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:37:41 GMT Message-ID: <4AB3A945.4060000@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:37:41 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090715 Thunderbird/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke References: <4A8010B3.1050100@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4A8010B3.1050100@gmx.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.97a Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=lear@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Cc: Apps Discuss , Calsify , CardDAV Subject: Re: [ietf-calsify] Call for feedback on HTML5 spec on "predefined vocabularies" X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Dear all, I recently had a thread with Julian in which he feels pretty strongly about the below message regarding HTML5, and the vocabulary for calendaring that is proposed. I suggest that people who are interested review the proposed specification below and comment either on one of these lists or to Julian directly. Eliot On 8/10/09 2:21 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Hi, > > (cross-posted to IETF apps-discuss, plus vcarddav and calsify mailing lists) > > the W3C HTML Working Group is currently preparing a new Working Draft > for HTML5. This will be based on the current Editor's Draft at > ). > > A significant change since the last Working Draft is the introduction of > "microdata", a way to augment the markup with semantics, similar to and > competing with RDFa and microformats in general (see > ). > > As part of introducing microdata, the spec also defines several > "predefined vocabularies". Some of them are based on IETF formats (and > this is why I'm writing this particular email). > > One of these vocabularies is "vcard" (see > ). As far as I can > tell, the HTML spec more or less duplicates information from RFC 2426, > and while doing so also introduces specific compliance criteria. It does > *not* refer to > , so, as far > as I can tell, it would hardwire the vocabulary to a soon-to-be-outdated > version of the spec, and also removes the inherent extensibility model. > > Another predefined vocabulary is "vevent" (see > ), to which similar > observations apply. > > I have talked to this to many W3C and IETF people, and as far as I can > tell, almost all of them consider this to be a Bad Idea. In particular, > it seems that the author has not even tried to co-ordinate with the two > applicable IETF Working Groups (I just checked the mailing list > archives, and couldn't find anything, but maybe I'm missing something). > > I'm not sure whether the two working groups have considered this issue > yet. I encourage to look at the spec now > (), or as soon as a new > Working Draft is published. > > In case the Calsify and/or Vcarddav Working Groups want to comment on > this, I encourage the chairs to send feedback directly to the W3C HTML > WG, so that the feedback gets the proper attention. > > Best regards, Julian > > _______________________________________________ > ietf-calsify mailing list > ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify > > _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify From ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Sat Sep 26 04:58:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-calsify-archive-Feit0ahl@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3D33A6863 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.301, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kcqYJhwZGlqD for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (leka.osafoundation.org [149.20.54.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE2B3A687C for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77A777D709; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCRc5MxQMZQF; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leka.osafoundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEB877D6FE; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:59:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E99F7841FF for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from leka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (leka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vo7uBRbmnRd0 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by leka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B7377D702 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:47 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEFAGqevUqrR7PE/2dsb2JhbACBUFQvuwGIUwGPOgWEHg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,456,1249257600"; d="scan'208,217";a="96424440" Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Sep 2009 11:58:46 +0000 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n8QBwkcC004247; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:58:46 -0700 Received: from elear-mac.local (ams3-vpn-dhcp7968.cisco.com [10.61.95.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8QBwkug012677; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:58:47 GMT Message-ID: <4ABE01F3.7030704@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:58:43 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.4pre) Gecko/20090915 Thunderbird/3.0b4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org" , Bernard Desruisseaux X-Enigmail-Version: 0.97a Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=lear@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Subject: [ietf-calsify] FW: RFC 5545 on Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification (iCalendar) X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "RFC2445, 2446 and 2447 Discusions" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1551097912==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org Errors-To: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1551097912== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010005020108040203050606" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010005020108040203050606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations, Bernard, on the completion of RFC 5545. Congratulations also to this working group for completing a major milestone. Eliot From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Reply-to: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 5545 on Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification (iCalendar) X-RSN: 1/0/934/6515/7014 X-HREF: http://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&k1=934&k2=7014 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5545 Title: Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification (iCalendar) Author: B. Desruisseaux, Ed. Status: Standards Track Date: September 2009 Mailbox: bernard.desruisseaux@oracle.com Pages: 168 Characters: 345537 Obsoletes: RFC2445 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5545.txt This document defines the iCalendar data format for representing and exchanging calendaring and scheduling information such as events, to-dos, journal entries, and free/busy information, independent of any particular calendar service or protocol. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --------------010005020108040203050606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Congratulations, Bernard, on the completion of RFC 5545.  Congratulations also to this working group for completing a major milestone.

Eliot



From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org 
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org 
Reply-to: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org 
Subject: RFC 5545 on Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification (iCalendar) 
X-RSN: 1/0/934/6515/7014 
X-HREF: http://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&k1=934&k2=7014 
 
A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. 
 
 
RFC 5545 
 
Title: Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core  
Object Specification (iCalendar)  
Author: B. Desruisseaux, Ed. 
Status: Standards Track 
Date: September 2009 
Mailbox: bernard.desruisseaux@oracle.com 
Pages: 168 
Characters: 345537 
Obsoletes: RFC2445 
 
I-D Tag: draft-ietf-calsify-rfc2445bis-10.txt 
 
URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5545.txt 
 
This document defines the iCalendar data format for representing and 
exchanging calendaring and scheduling information such as events, 
to-dos, journal entries, and free/busy information, independent of any 
particular calendar service or protocol. [STANDARDS TRACK] 
 
This document is a product of the Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification Working Group of the IETF. 
 
This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. 
 
STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track 
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions 
for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Internet 
Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and 
status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. 
 
This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. 
To subscribe or unsubscribe, see 
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce 
http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist 
 
For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. 
For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. 
 
Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the 
author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless 
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for 
unlimited distribution. 
 
 
The RFC Editor Team 
USC/Information Sciences Institute 
 
 
_______________________________________________ 
IETF-Announce mailing list 
IETF-Announce@ietf.org 
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce  --------------010005020108040203050606-- --===============1551097912== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ietf-calsify mailing list ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify --===============1551097912==--