
From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Tue Apr  5 18:53:48 2011
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Hello all,

We've submitted an Internet-Draft that explains KCipher-2,
an efficient and secure stream cipher.
URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00.txt

The KCipher-2 is developed by KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.,
Japan and now is being used for commercial applications such
as remote health care system and private image transmission.

All comments and advice are welcomed.

Best regards,

-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From ggr@qualcomm.com  Tue Apr  5 21:45:26 2011
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From: "Rose, Greg" <ggr@qualcomm.com>
To: Wook Shin <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
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Is there some sort of design document that explains the cipher, other than =
the draft? Like a conference paper or something?

Greg.

On 2011 Apr 5, at 18:55 , Wook Shin wrote:

> Hello all,
>=20
> We've submitted an Internet-Draft that explains KCipher-2,
> an efficient and secure stream cipher.
> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00.txt
>=20
> The KCipher-2 is developed by KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.,
> Japan and now is being used for commercial applications such
> as remote health care system and private image transmission.
>=20
> All comments and advice are welcomed.
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> --=20
> Wook Shin
> Information Security Laboratory,
> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Cfrg mailing list
> Cfrg@irtf.org
> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


From jon@callas.org  Wed Apr  6 00:25:25 2011
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Rose, Greg wrote:

> Is there some sort of design document that explains the cipher, other tha=
n the draft? Like a conference paper or something?

I found:

Web site:
http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/kcipher2e.htm

Latest paper:
http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/draftpaper2.pdf

First paper:
http://www.ecrypt.eu.org/stream/papersdir/2007/029.pdf

Source code would be nice, too, though.

	Jon


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From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Wed Apr  6 00:42:48 2011
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To: "Rose, Greg" <ggr@qualcomm.com>, "Jon Callas" <jon@callas.org>
References: <op.vthuamrupzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <5554601C-658C-42E2-9585-3D6D3E14071A@qualcomm.com> <CDDAFBD3-E327-4FAA-8613-DC17E4A05477@callas.org>
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Thank you Jon,

I will check if the ISO document, [ISO18033], which is referred
in the draft and our implementation of KCipher-2 can be sent around.


On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:26:58 +0900, Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> wrote:

>
> On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Rose, Greg wrote:
>
>> Is there some sort of design document that explains the cipher, other  
>> than the draft? Like a conference paper or something?
>
> I found:
>
> Web site:
> http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/kcipher2e.htm
>
> Latest paper:
> http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/draftpaper2.pdf
>
> First paper:
> http://www.ecrypt.eu.org/stream/papersdir/2007/029.pdf
>
> Source code would be nice, too, though.
>
> 	Jon


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

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To: "Rose, Greg" <ggr@qualcomm.com>, "Jon Callas" <jon@callas.org>
References: <op.vthuamrupzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <5554601C-658C-42E2-9585-3D6D3E14071A@qualcomm.com> <CDDAFBD3-E327-4FAA-8613-DC17E4A05477@callas.org>
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:15:43 +0900
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From: "Wook Shin" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
Organization: KDDI
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
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------------dfrGqRoAAp62YGtwUKZPr2
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I've attached the source code.
FYI, you might want to check the latest evaluation report of KCipher-2
at http://www.cryptrec.go.jp/estimation/techrep_id2010_2.pdf

Wook


On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:26:58 +0900, Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> wrote:

>
> On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Rose, Greg wrote:
>
>> Is there some sort of design document that explains the cipher, other  
>> than the draft? Like a conference paper or something?
>
> I found:
>
> Web site:
> http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/kcipher2e.htm
>
> Latest paper:
> http://www.kddilabs.jp/english/kcipher2e/draftpaper2.pdf
>
> First paper:
> http://www.ecrypt.eu.org/stream/papersdir/2007/029.pdf
>
> Source code would be nice, too, though.
>
> 	Jon


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
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From ietf@augustcellars.com  Wed Apr  6 18:38:03 2011
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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: "'Wook Shin'" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>, <cfrg@irtf.org>
References: <op.vthuamrupzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp>
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:04:55 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
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Just from a quick scan without actually reading the document you get my
standard first question.  Where are the test vectors and a partial example
so that I can validate that my code matches yours.   The normal answer I get
is --- oh it is in document  foobar, which normally requires that I make
some type of statement that I am unwilling to agree to and thus I want it in
this document.

I generally also don't believe in reading the code that you have sent out as
part of the question is whether the document is specific enough that
somebody will be able to pull it out of the archive later and implement it
as necessary.

Jim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: cfrg-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:cfrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of
> Wook Shin
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:55 PM
> To: cfrg@irtf.org
> Subject: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-
> kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We've submitted an Internet-Draft that explains KCipher-2, an efficient
and
> secure stream cipher.
> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00.txt
> 
> The KCipher-2 is developed by KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc., Japan and now
is
> being used for commercial applications such as remote health care system
> and private image transmission.
> 
> All comments and advice are welcomed.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> --
> Wook Shin
> Information Security Laboratory,
> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Cfrg mailing list
> Cfrg@irtf.org
> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Thu Apr  7 21:47:25 2011
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To: cfrg@irtf.org, "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
References: <op.vthuamrupzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <01e001cbf4c8$30ee9610$92cbc230$@augustcellars.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
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Hello Jim,

> Just from a quick scan without actually reading the document you get my
> standard first question.  Where are the test vectors and a partial  
> example
> so that I can validate that my code matches yours.   The normal answer I  
> get
> is --- oh it is in document  foobar, which normally requires that I make
> some type of statement that I am unwilling to agree to and thus I want  
> it in
> this document.

Thank you so much for the comment. I've added some test vectors and
results which can be found in Appendix B of the new version of the draft,
URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2/

> I generally also don't believe in reading the code that you have sent  
> out as
> part of the question is whether the document is specific enough that
> somebody will be able to pull it out of the archive later and implement  
> it
> as necessary.

I just wished the source would be like an extra appendix which might
provide some helpful insight for someone when she/he reads the draft.
I don't think the source code is the unique and the most efficient
implementation of KCipher-2, though, and that's why I tried to write
the algorithm of KCipher-2 in pseudo format in the draft. But, I also
aware that the algorithm description in the draft might not be clear
enough. I'd appreciate it if anyone teaches us any ambiguous or
unclear part in the draft.

Thank you,

Wook




On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 11:04:55 +0900, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>  
wrote:

> Just from a quick scan without actually reading the document you get my
> standard first question.  Where are the test vectors and a partial  
> example
> so that I can validate that my code matches yours.   The normal answer I  
> get
> is --- oh it is in document  foobar, which normally requires that I make
> some type of statement that I am unwilling to agree to and thus I want  
> it in
> this document.
>
> I generally also don't believe in reading the code that you have sent  
> out as
> part of the question is whether the document is specific enough that
> somebody will be able to pull it out of the archive later and implement  
> it
> as necessary.
>
> Jim
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cfrg-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:cfrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Wook Shin
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:55 PM
>> To: cfrg@irtf.org
>> Subject: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-
>> kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We've submitted an Internet-Draft that explains KCipher-2, an efficient
> and
>> secure stream cipher.
>> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00.txt
>>
>> The KCipher-2 is developed by KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc., Japan and now
> is
>> being used for commercial applications such as remote health care system
>> and private image transmission.
>>
>> All comments and advice are welcomed.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> --
>> Wook Shin
>> Information Security Laboratory,
>> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cfrg mailing list
>> Cfrg@irtf.org
>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From Joachim@Strombergson.com  Thu Apr  7 23:37:21 2011
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Aloha!

On 2011:04:08 6:49, Wook Shin wrote:
> I just wished the source would be like an extra appendix which might
> provide some helpful insight for someone when she/he reads the draft.
> I don't think the source code is the unique and the most efficient
> implementation of KCipher-2, though...

This is where soo many cipher designers go wrong. From an implementer
point of view having access to test vectors and a simple, functional
reference model which matches the algorithm description is almost
essential. Unfortunately test vectors is rare. And a good, reference
model is rarer still.

What you often get is an implementation which is unrolled or in other
ways reorganized for maximum speed, have variable names not matching the
written algorithm description, lacks comments is generally written in
badly coded C.

Yes, a version optimized for speed is good too, but that comes after
having the functionality down. And using single letter variable names,
bad intendation and lack of comments does not lead to faster
implementations.

So, please if possible, include the simplest, cleanest, well coded, well
documented albeit slowest implementation that is self contained (besides
stdint, stdio etc) do as little macros, typedefs etc as possible. And
compiles easily.

(Note: This is not a critique of kcipher2 but a general observation.)
- -- 
Med vänlig hälsning, Yours

Joachim Strömbergson - Alltid i harmonisk svängning.
========================================================================
Kryptoblog - IT-säkerhet på svenska
http://www.strombergson.com/kryptoblog
========================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:38:01 +0900
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From: "Wook Shin" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Asking comments: New Version Notification for draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-00
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Hello Joachim,

> This is where soo many cipher designers go wrong. From an implementer
> point of view having access to test vectors and a simple, functional
> reference model which matches the algorithm description is almost
> essential. Unfortunately test vectors is rare. And a good, reference
> model is rarer still.
>
> What you often get is an implementation which is unrolled or in other
> ways reorganized for maximum speed, have variable names not matching the
> written algorithm description, lacks comments is generally written in
> badly coded C.
>
> Yes, a version optimized for speed is good too, but that comes after
> having the functionality down. And using single letter variable names,
> bad intendation and lack of comments does not lead to faster
> implementations.
>
> So, please if possible, include the simplest, cleanest, well coded, well
> documented albeit slowest implementation that is self contained (besides
> stdint, stdio etc) do as little macros, typedefs etc as possible. And
> compiles easily.
>

I really appreciate your comments. Due to my lack of experience in the
standardization process and the field of cryptography, I think I
misunderstood the purpose of the standardization and the use of test
vectors. Now I can see what Jim and Jon were looking for.

I will revise the draft and rewrite the codes, so that the procedures
in the implementation can be shown clearly.

Thank you again,

Wook





On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 15:39:02 +0900, Joachim Strömbergson  
<Joachim@strombergson.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Aloha!
>
> On 2011:04:08 6:49, Wook Shin wrote:
>> I just wished the source would be like an extra appendix which might
>> provide some helpful insight for someone when she/he reads the draft.
>> I don't think the source code is the unique and the most efficient
>> implementation of KCipher-2, though...
>
> This is where soo many cipher designers go wrong. From an implementer
> point of view having access to test vectors and a simple, functional
> reference model which matches the algorithm description is almost
> essential. Unfortunately test vectors is rare. And a good, reference
> model is rarer still.
>
> What you often get is an implementation which is unrolled or in other
> ways reorganized for maximum speed, have variable names not matching the
> written algorithm description, lacks comments is generally written in
> badly coded C.
>
> Yes, a version optimized for speed is good too, but that comes after
> having the functionality down. And using single letter variable names,
> bad intendation and lack of comments does not lead to faster
> implementations.
>
> So, please if possible, include the simplest, cleanest, well coded, well
> documented albeit slowest implementation that is self contained (besides
> stdint, stdio etc) do as little macros, typedefs etc as possible. And
> compiles easily.
>
> (Note: This is not a critique of kcipher2 but a general observation.)
> - --
> Med vänlig hälsning, Yours
>
> Joachim Strömbergson - Alltid i harmonisk svängning.
> ========================================================================
> Kryptoblog - IT-säkerhet på svenska
> http://www.strombergson.com/kryptoblog
> ========================================================================
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> 7P8An3/hTwwtsNqmeOxFifLLFTzR6Wte
> =yjke
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> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Tue Apr 12 18:39:41 2011
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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------------3nUzBVlQFOMryCDfcdRQL9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
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Hello all,

I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream cipher.
The current version includes some code snippets written in the C language
syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea of how it works
and help them check their outputs with the test vectors mentioned in the
draft.
The new version of the draft can be found at
   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt

I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip file,
and no special option is required to compile and run the program.
The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft are
 from the the attached code.

Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let me
have your comments.

Thank you,

Wook
------------3nUzBVlQFOMryCDfcdRQL9
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------------3nUzBVlQFOMryCDfcdRQL9--


From ietf@augustcellars.com  Tue Apr 12 21:08:02 2011
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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: <cfrg@irtf.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:33:47 -0700
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Subject: [Cfrg] Comments Requested on Deterministic DSA and ECDS draft
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I am currently in the process of reviewing the document =
draft-pornin-deterministic-dsa-00.txt which has been submitted as =
independent submission.  As part of this process I am soliciting for =
comments from the cryptographic community about the soundness of the =
concept presented.  The abstract for the document is as follows:

   This document defines a deterministic digital signature generation
   procedure.  Such signatures are compatible with standard DSA and
   ECDSA digital signatures, and can be processed with unmodified
   verifiers, which need not be aware of the procedure described
   therein.  Deterministic signatures retain the cryptographic security
   features associated with digital signatures, but can be more easily
   implemented in various environments since they do not need access to
   a source of high quality randomness.

As the document points out there are potential attacks on DSA in the =
event that k is not randomly chosen and this document  then outlines a =
way to choose k deterministically and hopefully free from that problem.

Comments are requested so that we can complete our review process.

Thanks

Jim



From ietf@augustcellars.com  Wed Apr 13 00:57:25 2011
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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: "'Wook Shin'" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>, <cfrg@irtf.org>
References: <20110413010001.17531.11616.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> <op.vtur72zepzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp>
In-Reply-To: <op.vtur72zepzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 01:23:10 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.

In section 2.1 you say

     <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits

      >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits

Which makes sense.

However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation

           SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
            (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);

Which is not covered by the above. =20

Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations here as =
(I think)

(IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << (32-24)) =
--> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)

jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
> To: cfrg@irtf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream =
cipher.
> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C =
language
> syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea of how it =
works
> and help them check their outputs with the test vectors mentioned in =
the
> draft.
> The new version of the draft can be found at
>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>=20
> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip file, =
and no
> special option is required to compile and run the program.
> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft =
are
> from the the attached code.
>=20
> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let me =
have
> your comments.
>=20
> Thank you,
>=20
> Wook


From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Wed Apr 13 01:31:22 2011
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To: cfrg@irtf.org, "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:30:47 +0900
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From: "Wook Shin" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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Jim,

That's my mistake. I think I made that mistake while converting
circular shift operations to the combination of XOR and
non-circular shit operations.

The notation in Section 2.1 should be corrected to

   <<n t     t-bit left shift in an n-bit register
   >>n t     t-bit right shift in an n-bit register

and then, the code

   SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24))
     XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);

should mean that

  (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
  (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
  (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
      as the input parameter

Best regards,

Wook




On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:23:10 +0900, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>  
wrote:

> You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.
>
> In section 2.1 you say
>
>      <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits
>
>       >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits
>
> Which makes sense.
>
> However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation
>
>            SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
>             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>
> Which is not covered by the above.
>
> Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations here as  
> (I think)
>
> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << (32-24))  
> --> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)
>
> jim
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
>> To: cfrg@irtf.org
>> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream  
>> cipher.
>> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C  
>> language
>> syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea of how it  
>> works
>> and help them check their outputs with the test vectors mentioned in the
>> draft.
>> The new version of the draft can be found at
>>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>>
>> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
>> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip file,  
>> and no
>> special option is required to compile and run the program.
>> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft are
>> from the the attached code.
>>
>> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let me  
>> have
>> your comments.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Wook


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From mcgrew@cisco.com  Wed Apr 13 06:51:28 2011
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Comments Requested on Deterministic DSA and ECDS draft
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Hi Jim,

thanks for forwarding; I copied Thomas as well.

Hi Thomas,

this is a well-written and interesting draft.  I have some questions  
on the motivations.   As I understand it, there are two claimed  
advantages for deterministic DSA/ECDSA over the usual vanilla-flavored  
DSA/ECDSA: it requires fewer bits of random data to be provided as  
input, and it is easier to validate an implementation.   I don't quite  
understand how it requires fewer bits of random data, though.  If an  
implementation of DSA/ECDSA can instantiate a strong pseudorandom  
source (such as a DRBG from SP 800-90) using a single random seed, it  
can use that source to generate private keys and k-values.  For that  
implementation, the use of deterministic DSA/ECDSA would not be  
significantly different than the usual DSA/ECDSA, since no additional  
random data is needed. On the other hand, an implementation that has  
no random source whatsoever can only generate DSA/ECDSA signatures if  
it imports a private key.  If that implementation could import a  
random seed for use in a pseudorandom source, it could perform the  
usual DSA/ECDSA signatures; otherwise, deterministic DSA/ECDSA would  
be useful.

On validation, it seems like a nice property that implementations of  
deterministic signature algorithms are amenable to known-answer tests,  
and thus can be easily and directly tested.  To my thinking this is an  
appealing property in a design, but as I see it more analysis that  
showed that this is a real advantage would be needed to warrant  
recommending the adoption of this variant over the existing standard,  
which is already well established.  The questions that come to my  
mind: are deterministic signatures demonstrably more robust against  
implementation failure?  Does the known-answer-test of a deterministic  
signature algorithm provide a higher assurance level than the testing  
that can be done on a randomized algorithm?   I think these questions  
are worth some consideration (in the context of your draft, and in  
general).

Security wise, the assumption that deterministic DSA/ECDSA relies on  
is that the HMAC_DRBG is a random oracle.   The reference [LN2009]  
"stresses the importance of studying the actual security of schemes  
proven in the ROM [random oracle model]".  Has this sort of study been  
performed for deterministic DSA/ECDSA?

An attacker in a chosen-message model can control more aspects of the  
internal computation during signature generation.  Does that have an  
impact on the efficacy of fault-injection attacks, say?

regards,

David

On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Jim Schaad wrote:

> I am currently in the process of reviewing the document draft-pornin- 
> deterministic-dsa-00.txt which has been submitted as independent  
> submission.  As part of this process I am soliciting for comments  
> from the cryptographic community about the soundness of the concept  
> presented.  The abstract for the document is as follows:
>
>   This document defines a deterministic digital signature generation
>   procedure.  Such signatures are compatible with standard DSA and
>   ECDSA digital signatures, and can be processed with unmodified
>   verifiers, which need not be aware of the procedure described
>   therein.  Deterministic signatures retain the cryptographic security
>   features associated with digital signatures, but can be more easily
>   implemented in various environments since they do not need access to
>   a source of high quality randomness.
>
> As the document points out there are potential attacks on DSA in the  
> event that k is not randomly chosen and this document  then outlines  
> a way to choose k deterministically and hopefully free from that  
> problem.
>
> Comments are requested so that we can complete our review process.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cfrg mailing list
> Cfrg@irtf.org
> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


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From: "Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)" <sfluhrer@cisco.com>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: cfrg-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:cfrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf
Of
> Wook Shin
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:31 AM
> To: cfrg@irtf.org; Jim Schaad
> Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>=20
> Jim,
>=20
> That's my mistake. I think I made that mistake while converting
> circular shift operations to the combination of XOR and
> non-circular shit operations.
>=20
> The notation in Section 2.1 should be corrected to
>=20
>    <<n t     t-bit left shift in an n-bit register
>    >>n t     t-bit right shift in an n-bit register
>=20
> and then, the code
>=20
>    SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24))
>      XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>=20
> should mean that
>=20
>   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
>   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
>   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
>       as the input parameter

If that's what you meant, well, that's a really odd notation.
Typically, where someone writes:
    Func(A) op B
They usually mean:
   - Give the value A to function Func, then take the result, and use it
to perform the operation with B.

A more conventional way of writing what you said you meant would be:

    SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24) XOR
                            (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00));

So, did you mean what you wrote, or did you mean what you said you
meant?

>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Wook
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:23:10 +0900, Jim Schaad
<ietf@augustcellars.com>
> wrote:
>=20
> > You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.
> >
> > In section 2.1 you say
> >
> >      <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits
> >
> >       >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits
> >
> > Which makes sense.
> >
> > However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation
> >
> >            SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
> >             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
> >
> > Which is not covered by the above.
> >
> > Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations
here
> as
> > (I think)
> >
> > (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << (32-
> 24))
> > --> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)
> >
> > jim
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
> >> To: cfrg@irtf.org
> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream
> >> cipher.
> >> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C
> >> language
> >> syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea of how
> it
> >> works
> >> and help them check their outputs with the test vectors mentioned
in
> the
> >> draft.
> >> The new version of the draft can be found at
> >>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-
> 02.txt
> >>
> >> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
> >> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip
file,
> >> and no
> >> special option is required to compile and run the program.
> >> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft
> are
> >> from the the attached code.
> >>
> >> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let
me
> >> have
> >> your comments.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Wook
>=20
>=20
> --
> Wook Shin
> Information Security Laboratory,
> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Cfrg mailing list
> Cfrg@irtf.org
> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:11:59 -0700
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To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>
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Cc: cfrg@irtf.org
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Comments Requested on Deterministic DSA and ECDS draft
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jim,

I'm basically supportive of this. In PGP 5.0, we did something analogous to=
 this -- we hashed together the private key, the hash of the message, and I=
 think a couple other things like a time stamp (as a form of sequence numbe=
r). We were very concerned about the quirk of DSA that losing the random nu=
mber loses the private key. Certainly, we've seen that as a break of DSA in=
 a couple places since.

There is a lot of discussion of this in the code comments on rationale etc.=
, but the idea was that even if your random number generator was broken in =
ways that you didn't understand, your private key would still be safe. We n=
oted that strictly speaking, a completely broken random number generator wo=
uldn't spill the keys, which is pretty much the same point that this draft =
has.

We've encouraged people to use this basic technique. Obviously, today you'd=
 use an HMAC instead of a hash (we did this in the days when dinosaurs roam=
ed the earth and there were no HMACs), etc. Also, back in those days, hardl=
y anyone used DSA. But with DSA coming back through ECDSA, a safety net usi=
ng steps like these.

This would have saved Sony, and there are others for whom this is a good sa=
fety net on the crypto.

However, I raise an eyebrow at turning the virtue of a safety net into a ne=
cessity. Despite having been proud of this safety net being so good that it=
 protects against a broken RNG, I wouldn't recommend determinism to *anyone=
*. It seems to me that it's skating on very thin ice to go completely deter=
ministic.

These techniques make basic DSA better, because if there is weakness in the=
 RNG, you're protected to the degree to which your mixing function resemble=
s a random oracle. It's a huge leap of faith then pin all your security on =
that. I fear that the basic very good idea might be lost by this final leap=
 of faith.

	Jon


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From ietf@augustcellars.com  Wed Apr 13 17:22:09 2011
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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
To: "'Wook Shin'" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>, <cfrg@irtf.org>
References: <20110413010001.17531.11616.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> <op.vtur72zepzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <00a201cbf9b4$06bc8a00$14359e00$@augustcellars.com> <op.vtva9lw0pzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp>
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:47:54 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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Personal opinion.  It will be easier and clearer if you go back to using =
circular shift operations. =20

Jim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:31 AM
> To: cfrg@irtf.org; Jim Schaad
> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>=20
> Jim,
>=20
> That's my mistake. I think I made that mistake while converting =
circular shift
> operations to the combination of XOR and non-circular shit operations.
>=20
> The notation in Section 2.1 should be corrected to
>=20
>    <<n t     t-bit left shift in an n-bit register
>    >>n t     t-bit right shift in an n-bit register
>=20
> and then, the code
>=20
>    SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24))
>      XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>=20
> should mean that
>=20
>   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
>   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
>   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
>       as the input parameter
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Wook
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:23:10 +0900, Jim Schaad =
<ietf@augustcellars.com>
> wrote:
>=20
> > You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.
> >
> > In section 2.1 you say
> >
> >      <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits
> >
> >       >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits
> >
> > Which makes sense.
> >
> > However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation
> >
> >            SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
> >             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
> >
> > Which is not covered by the above.
> >
> > Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations =
here
> > as (I think)
> >
> > (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] <<
> > (32-24))
> > --> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)
> >
> > jim
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
> >> To: cfrg@irtf.org
> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream
> >> cipher.
> >> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C
> >> language syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer =
idea
> >> of how it works and help them check their outputs with the test
> >> vectors mentioned in the draft.
> >> The new version of the draft can be found at
> >>    =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
> >>
> >> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
> >> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip =
file,
> >> and no special option is required to compile and run the program.
> >> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft
> >> are from the the attached code.
> >>
> >> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let =
me
> >> have your comments.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Wook
>=20
>=20
> --
> Wook Shin
> Information Security Laboratory,
> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.


From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Wed Apr 13 17:42:18 2011
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To: cfrg@irtf.org, "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>, "Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)" <sfluhrer@cisco.com>
References: <20110413010001.17531.11616.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> <op.vtur72zepzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <00a201cbf9b4$06bc8a00$14359e00$@augustcellars.com> <op.vtva9lw0pzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <EE0C2F9E065E634B84FC3BE36CF8A4B2068A8BBF@xmb-sjc-23e.amer.cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:42:10 +0900
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From: "Wook Shin" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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Scott,

Oops, I was wrong about the location of the right parenthesis in
my previous message. It is (as described in the draft)

SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);

and that means (as it is written in the above)

   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2)" as its input
       and the result will be XOR-ed with 0x01000000

not
>>   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
>>   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
>>   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
>>       as the input parameter

Sorry for the confusions.

Wook




On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 23:30:35 +0900, Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)  
<sfluhrer@cisco.com> wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cfrg-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:cfrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> Wook Shin
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:31 AM
>> To: cfrg@irtf.org; Jim Schaad
>> Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> That's my mistake. I think I made that mistake while converting
>> circular shift operations to the combination of XOR and
>> non-circular shit operations.
>>
>> The notation in Section 2.1 should be corrected to
>>
>>    <<n t     t-bit left shift in an n-bit register
>>    >>n t     t-bit right shift in an n-bit register
>>
>> and then, the code
>>
>>    SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24))
>>      XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>>
>> should mean that
>>
>>   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
>>   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
>>   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
>>       as the input parameter
>
> If that's what you meant, well, that's a really odd notation.
> Typically, where someone writes:
>     Func(A) op B
> They usually mean:
>    - Give the value A to function Func, then take the result, and use it
> to perform the operation with B.
>
> A more conventional way of writing what you said you meant would be:
>
>     SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24) XOR
>                             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00));
>
> So, did you mean what you wrote, or did you mean what you said you
> meant?
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Wook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:23:10 +0900, Jim Schaad
> <ietf@augustcellars.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.
>> >
>> > In section 2.1 you say
>> >
>> >      <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits
>> >
>> >       >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits
>> >
>> > Which makes sense.
>> >
>> > However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation
>> >
>> >            SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
>> >             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>> >
>> > Which is not covered by the above.
>> >
>> > Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations
> here
>> as
>> > (I think)
>> >
>> > (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << (32-
>> 24))
>> > --> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)
>> >
>> > jim
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
>> >> To: cfrg@irtf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>> >>
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream
>> >> cipher.
>> >> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C
>> >> language
>> >> syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea of how
>> it
>> >> works
>> >> and help them check their outputs with the test vectors mentioned
> in
>> the
>> >> draft.
>> >> The new version of the draft can be found at
>> >>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-
>> 02.txt
>> >>
>> >> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
>> >> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip
> file,
>> >> and no
>> >> special option is required to compile and run the program.
>> >> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft
>> are
>> >> from the the attached code.
>> >>
>> >> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let
> me
>> >> have
>> >> your comments.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >>
>> >> Wook
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wook Shin
>> Information Security Laboratory,
>> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cfrg mailing list
>> Cfrg@irtf.org
>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Wed Apr 13 17:43:58 2011
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To: cfrg@irtf.org, "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
References: <20110413010001.17531.11616.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> <op.vtur72zepzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <00a201cbf9b4$06bc8a00$14359e00$@augustcellars.com> <op.vtva9lw0pzjggh@ohpato-t61.sec.kddilabs.jp> <00f901cbfa3d$9a0ccbb0$ce266310$@augustcellars.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
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> Personal opinion.  It will be easier and clearer if you go back to using  
> circular shift operations.

I agree. I will go with the circular shift notations in the next
version of the draft.

Wook


On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:47:54 +0900, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>  
wrote:

> Personal opinion.  It will be easier and clearer if you go back to using  
> circular shift operations.
>
> Jim
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:31 AM
>> To: cfrg@irtf.org; Jim Schaad
>> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> That's my mistake. I think I made that mistake while converting  
>> circular shift
>> operations to the combination of XOR and non-circular shit operations.
>>
>> The notation in Section 2.1 should be corrected to
>>
>>    <<n t     t-bit left shift in an n-bit register
>>    >>n t     t-bit right shift in an n-bit register
>>
>> and then, the code
>>
>>    SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24))
>>      XOR (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>>
>> should mean that
>>
>>   (1) IK[3] gets left-shifted by 8 bits
>>   (2) IK[3] gets right-shifted by 24 bits
>>   (3) call SubK2() by giving "(1) XOR (2) XOR 0x01000000"
>>       as the input parameter
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Wook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:23:10 +0900, Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > You have a notation that is leaving me puzzled.
>> >
>> > In section 2.1 you say
>> >
>> >      <<n   Left circular rotation by n bits
>> >
>> >       >>n   Right circular rotation by n bits
>> >
>> > Which makes sense.
>> >
>> > However in section 2.3.2 you use the notation
>> >
>> >            SubK2((IK[3] <<32 8) XOR (IK[3] >>32 24)) XOR
>> >             (0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00);
>> >
>> > Which is not covered by the above.
>> >
>> > Additionally I wonder if you mean to use IK[3] in both locations here
>> > as (I think)
>> >
>> > (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] >> 24) ---> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] <<
>> > (32-24))
>> > --> (IK[3] << 8) XOR (IK[3] << 8)
>> >
>> > jim
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Wook Shin [mailto:wookshin@kddilabs.jp]
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:39 PM
>> >> To: cfrg@irtf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>> >>
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> I've revised our previous draft that explains the KCipher-2 stream
>> >> cipher.
>> >> The current version includes some code snippets written in the C
>> >> language syntax, so that it could help implementers get clearer idea
>> >> of how it works and help them check their outputs with the test
>> >> vectors mentioned in the draft.
>> >> The new version of the draft can be found at
>> >>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-02.txt
>> >>
>> >> I have attached a naive implementation of KCipher-2 written in C.
>> >> Two files, KCipher2.c and KCipher2.h, are in the attached .zip file,
>> >> and no special option is required to compile and run the program.
>> >> The code snippets and the test vector running examples in the draft
>> >> are from the the attached code.
>> >>
>> >> Please look at the new version of the draft and the code, and let me
>> >> have your comments.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >>
>> >> Wook
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wook Shin
>> Information Security Laboratory,
>> KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.


-- 
Wook Shin
Information Security Laboratory,
KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

From Joachim@Strombergson.com  Thu Apr 21 00:53:00 2011
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Aloha!

I've looked at the draft, the code and tested it using the clang+llvm
compiler. Here are some comments. Most things are minor nits.

* I would recommend that you change the name of the code from CamelCase
and esp from ANaiveKCipher2Impl to something more readable. How about
kcipher2_simple, kcipher2_basic or similarly. Naive has a bit of a bad
ring to it.


* Is CamelCase the naming convention used by you? I'm quite certain it
is generally not for C code and makes it a bit harder to read. And
readibility and understandability is the point of this code.


* Move the S_box, INIT and NORMAL definitions to the .c-file. They are
internal to the cipher, not part of the API. A small name thing: In the
draft it is S-box, in the code S_box. Almost the same, just a detail.


* You get extra points for presenting internal state values during
execution of the test vectors. Very usable, good!


* There are two minor errors in the code, probably simple copy crimes.
KCipher2.c:201:51: warning: data argument not used by format string
[-Wformat-extra-args]
    printf("\nFinally, after the Init() call:\n", i); // for debugging
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ^

KCipher2.c:380:39: warning: data argument not used by format string
[-Wformat-extra-args]
        printf(" are as follows: \n", j);
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ^


* I really like the comment structure of the code with headers
describing what is done, what is being changed etc.


* I would change the declarations to use definitions in <stdint.h>
instead of "unsigned int", "unisgned char". This makes more clear what
bit widths are used.


* Add a license/copyright header to the .h-file too.


* Question: What is the license for KCipher2? The code points to the
draft which reiterates the IETF copyright. Basically this states that
the code is under simplified BSD license. (And you should probably add
such license in the code to make it clearer)

But what I would like to see, both in the draft and in the code is
something that clarifies the KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc stand on the
license for the KCipher2. Is if free for non commercial, is there patent
claims related to the cipher etc?

Compare to the statement for CAST-128:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2144#section-3


* In the draft, how about calling the shift registers "LFSR"? They are
normal linear shift registers as far as I can see and IMHO LFSR is the
more common term.


That is all for now.

- -- 
Med vänlig hälsning, Yours

Joachim Strömbergson - Alltid i harmonisk svängning.
========================================================================
Kryptoblog - IT-säkerhet på svenska
http://www.strombergson.com/kryptoblog
========================================================================
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From wookshin@kddilabs.jp  Fri Apr 22 05:42:07 2011
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Hello all,

Now I am revising the draft reflecting the comments that I got from
Joachim, Jim and Uri. (Thank you for the precious comments!)
I think I would be able to have the next version of the draft on
Tuesday next week.

I have a question regarding the copyright issue though. By the IETF
policy, is there a way of giving rights only to non-commercial uses?
My company is preparing the IPR disclosure and just want to know
what kind of options they could have.

Best regards,

Wook

From mcgrew@cisco.com  Fri Apr 22 06:28:08 2011
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Hi Wook,

On Apr 22, 2011, at 5:41 AM, Wook Shin wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Now I am revising the draft reflecting the comments that I got from
> Joachim, Jim and Uri. (Thank you for the precious comments!)
> I think I would be able to have the next version of the draft on
> Tuesday next week.
>
> I have a question regarding the copyright issue though. By the IETF
> policy, is there a way of giving rights only to non-commercial uses?
> My company is preparing the IPR disclosure and just want to know
> what kind of options they could have.

right to what, exactly?  If you mean rights to "code components", that =20=

is, snippets of source code that appear in the draft, then the answer =20=

is yes, if you choose a license statement for the draft that forbids =20
derivative works.  =46rom the Trust Legal Provisions, =
http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/=20
, "unless one of the legends contained in Section 6.c.i or 6.c.ii is =20
included in an IETF Document containing Code Components, such Code =20
Components are also licensed to each person who wishes to receive such =20=

a license on the terms of the =93Simplified BSD License", as described =20=

below."  Section 6.c.i says : "If a Contributor chooses to limit the =20
right to make modifications and derivative works of an IETF =20
Contribution, then one of the notices in clause (i) or (ii) below must =20=

be included. Note that an IETF Contribution with such a notice cannot =20=

become a Standards Track document or, in most cases, a working group =20
document."  But note that the current draft includes the statement =20
"Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified =20=

BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal =20
Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the =20
Simplified BSD License", so that code components in that draft can be =20=

used under those terms.

If by rights you mean IPR, that is, the right to use a patent, there =20
are many options open to your company.  See http://www.ietf.org/ipr/ =20
for the details and examples of IPR statements made by other =20
companies.  Please also note that, if you are aware of patents that =20
are essential to the implementation of the draft, you have an =20
obligation to the IETF to disclose them.

The above is the IETF policy.  I would like to add a personal note: I =20=

encourage your employer to consider an IPR statement that allows for =20
royalty-free use, and which does not require every implementer to have =20=

to hire a lawyer, which would be the case if the IPR statement =20
requires that some legal paperwork needs to be done.  Here is an =20
example of a royalty-free, lawyer-free IPR statement, chosen at =20
random: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/752/.  Experience has shown =20
that crypto algorithms that require royalties from implementers see =20
very low adoption, and are typically rejected by working groups that =20
are developing standards.  Even a royalty-free license that requires =20
some legal paperwork inhibits adoption, especially in open source =20
projects.

David

>
> Best regards,
>
> Wook
> _______________________________________________
> Cfrg mailing list
> Cfrg@irtf.org
> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg


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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:27:20 +0900
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From: "Wook Shin" <wookshin@kddilabs.jp>
Organization: KDDI
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Subject: [Cfrg] Ask for comments: draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-03.txt
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Hello all,

We have updated the draft "A Description of KCipher-2 Encryption
Algorithm" reflecting the comments we've got (Thank you all!).
The newest version draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2-03.txt can be found at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kiyomoto-kcipher2/

Here is a summary of the changes in this version:
1. the power operator is changed to #
    to avoid confusion over the power operator and the XOR operator
2. Revised the Step 2 of the function next()
3. Descriptions about a0, ..., a3 are added to Section 2.3.1
    (the second paragraph) and to Section 2.4.4, (from the first
     paragram of the section to the second paragraph of Page 13).
4. Added the source code of the simple implementation of
    KCipher-2 in Appendix B

Also, the source codes were revised to improve the readability:
1. Changed the naming convention for functions. Hopefully,
    now it seems closer to what they use in C codes.
2. Removed the minor format string errors that caused
    warnings.
3. Used uint32_t and uint8_t, instead of unsigned int and
    unsigned char, in order to make the bitwidth be clearer.


Joachim asked about the license for KCipher-2. We have patents
related to KCipher-2 and are trying to make it royalty-free.
Although the final decision (of my company) hasn't been made yet,
I believe it is going to be royalty-free soon (within a couple
of weeks).

Thank you.

Best regards,

Wook
