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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA04130FE1 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7hUOqxBegoPI for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF218130F82 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8AJZsjV014401 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:35:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0243.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0243.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 428JDp2yhpzDXKj; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:35:54 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:35:53 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558300951.16267-4d8e8100d76d0a4d8ba0ec1af4a714fb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4E94CEF6-D4BB-45CD-9547-C953D4BE1B78@tzi.org> References: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Upcoming virtual interim meetings (Re: CoRE@IETF102: Summary) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 19:36:05 -0000 For the next virtual interim meeting, which is scheduled to happen in = about 43 hours of time, we have two items on the agenda so far: =E2=80=94 finishing touches for draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit (I=E2=80=99= ll issue a call for working group adoption momentarily); any other = continuation of the previous interim =E2=80=94 way forward with stateless proxies as needed for 6tisch, = specifically draft-hartke-core-stateless: Approach A or B (or something = unknown yet?) Please speak up if you want to address other issues (but keep in mind = that we only have 60 minutes planned). One item that has been mentioned for the next interim after that (Sep = 26, where I, again, won=E2=80=99t be able to participate) is = draft-ietf-core-pubsub. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Sep 10 12:54:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B62D130F67 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:54:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7SPJQdbE-pMR for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03546130E27 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8AJsYGE028817 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0243.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0243.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 428JfL0LvYzDXKq; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:54:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558302071.478211-d8876d05191fb58d268ff6df55da5cd6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:54:33 +0200 Message-Id: To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-boucadair-cor?= =?utf-8?q?e-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 19:54:39 -0000 It seems we have converged at draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit as the = draft providing the hop limit function needed by DOTS, but we haven=E2=80=99= t done the formal WG adoption yet. This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the = CoRE WG. If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place). Please do mention any issues that you already know; these also can be = brought up in Wednesday=E2=80=99s virtual interim Webex call. This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of September 17th. (Given the state of the discussion, we might then have a Working Group = last call of an updated document right next.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Sep 10 13:27:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A658D130FBA for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:27:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NpUQfjCBa24n for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C0DF130F9D for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:23:00 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' , 'Core' References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:26:54 -0700 Message-ID: <007901d44944$9ecc7430$dc655c90$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQK1Oh2mxC0bxkfFsbamK+CvdY52j6MoFNbQ Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-boucadair-cor?= =?utf-8?q?e-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 20:27:06 -0000 I support adopting this draft. For the set of issues - look at the last virtual minutes. > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 12:55 PM > To: Core > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > It seems we have converged at draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit as the = draft > providing the hop limit function needed by DOTS, but we = haven=E2=80=99t done the > formal WG adoption yet. >=20 > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE > WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have > consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to > address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first = place). > Please do mention any issues that you already know; these also can be = brought > up in Wednesday=E2=80=99s virtual interim Webex call. >=20 > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of September 17th. > (Given the state of the discussion, we might then have a Working Group = last > call of an updated document right next.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Mon Sep 10 16:08:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EDB130F8A; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:08:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m43Rf2F1GCMp; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4470130E0F; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:03:54 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: 'Core' Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdRJSZxEFVxiHpnJRYejIUsSOODSiw== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 23:08:01 -0000 Section 2.2.2 - Depending on circumstances, I think you might get a Gateway time out error response as well for some types of proxies. Section 2.2.2 - Should there be a special indicator that a server cannot deal with tokens of longer than n bytes? Otherwise this would seem to be a good way to exhaust resources on the server/proxy. Section 3.1 - I would think that repeatable would be better for the option as then multiple proxies could just insert a new option rather than attempting to extend or wrap the current value. Section 3.1 - I am not sure that I agree that the option should be unsafe to forward. As long as a client and a server agree to deal with the option then it does not matter what any intermediate proxies might do. Changing this modifies 3.2.2 as well Section 3.1 - above two arguments would change the values of critical as well. I still think that it would be part of the cache key for a proxy that did not understand the option, it might be noted that a proxy which understands the option would be in its right to exclude the option from computing the cache key. Section 3.1 - The last sentence may need to have some additional text added about the length of the Token field when splitting the value. Also needs to have a note about the interactions messages in those cases where the portion placed in the token field does not change. This seems quite possible if one uses a prefix. Section 4 - What happens for interactions w/ the observe option? Section 4.1 - I don't see how paragraph 3 follows from the use of this option. This is merely a tree statement for all intermediaries that don't bother caching. Note that if the intermediary does cache responses, but does not cache this option then the entire paragraph does not seem to be correct. It could respond from the cache, but not worry about keeping this value in the cache and trying to figure out when and how to ignore. Security Considerations - Need additional text someplace about swapping of tokens which might be more consequential than would normally be the case. Someplace - Interactions between OSCORE and this new option. Freshness indicator may need to be dealt with on a per server basis or using the same type of window that DTLS uses. If a client sends out two different messages to two different servers, the order of responses should not control if a response is processed. Jim From nobody Tue Sep 11 04:02:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625AB130E6E; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 04:02:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ry8gZz5XZ2vr; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 04:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 736FE130DFE; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 04:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fzgRE-0006TF-B2; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:02:32 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:02:33 +0100 Message-ID: <039901d449be$f0b9cf70$d22d6e50$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK1Oh2mxC0bxkfFsbamK+CvdY52jwHrXoHYoxmtKxA= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?b?W0RvdHNdIEZXOiAg8J+UlCBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBvZiBk?= =?utf-8?q?raft-boucadair-core-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:02:36 -0000 Hi CoRE WG, I have read the draft and support it. I do not see any issues with it being a WG document. Regards Jon -----Original Message----- From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, = Tirumaleswar Reddy Sent: 11 September 2018 06:57 To: dots@ietf.org Subject: [Dots] FW: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit Hi all, Please review = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit-00 and = respond to the WG adoption call in CoRE WG.=20 DOTS signal channel is using the Hop-Limit Option defined in this draft. Cheers, -Tiru -----Original Message----- From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:25 AM To: Core Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click = links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the = content is safe. It seems we have converged at draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit as the = draft providing the hop limit function needed by DOTS, but we = haven=E2=80=99t done the formal WG adoption yet. This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the = CoRE WG. If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place). Please do mention any issues that you already know; these also can be = brought up in Wednesday=E2=80=99s virtual interim Webex call. This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of September 17th. (Given the state of the discussion, we might then have a Working Group = last call of an updated document right next.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Sep 11 05:47:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859CB130E80; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 05:47:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MDq-0v24MdwW; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56769130E7C; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 428l6r3C6kz5vvN; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:47:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.32]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 428l6r2SxzzDq7F; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:47:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8924:188:2124:a046%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:47:16 +0200 From: To: "core@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgYWRvcHRpb24gb2YgZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWlyLWNv?= =?utf-8?Q?re-hop-limit?= Thread-Index: AdRJzZBaCiRnu/S2T1KvnjcE915T5g== Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:47:15 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDDE5F@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-boucadair-cor?= =?utf-8?q?e-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 12:47:21 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJIHN1cHBvcnQgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCwgb2J2aW91c2x5LiANCg0KRldJVywgSSBk b24ndCBoYXZlIGFueSBJUFIgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVk DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IERvdHMgW21haWx0bzpk b3RzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIERlIGxhIHBhcnQgZGUgSm9uIFNoYWxsb3cNCj4gRW52b3nD qcKgOiBtYXJkaSAxMSBzZXB0ZW1icmUgMjAxOCAxMzowMw0KPiDDgMKgOiBjb3JlQGlldGYub3Jn OyAnS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeSc7IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDog UmU6IFtEb3RzXSBGVzogW2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgYWRvcHRpb24gb2YgZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWly LWNvcmUtaG9wLWxpbWl0DQo+IA0KPiBIaSBDb1JFIFdHLA0KPiANCj4gSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhl IGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBzdXBwb3J0IGl0Lg0KPiBJIGRvIG5vdCBzZWUgYW55IGlzc3VlcyB3aXRoIGl0 IGJlaW5nIGEgV0cgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQo+IA0KPiBSZWdhcmRzDQo+IA0KPiBKb24NCj4gDQo+IC0t LS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IERvdHMgW21haWx0bzogZG90cy1ib3Vu Y2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhcg0KPiBSZWRkeQ0K PiBTZW50OiAxMSBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxOCAwNjo1Nw0KPiBUbzogZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBT dWJqZWN0OiBbRG90c10gRlc6IFtjb3JlXSDwn5SUIFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uIG9mIGRyYWZ0LWJvdWNh ZGFpci1jb3JlLWhvcC1saW1pdA0KPiANCj4gSGkgYWxsLA0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyBo dHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWlyLWNvcmUtaG9wLWxpbWl0 LTAwDQo+IGFuZCByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRoZSBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsIGluIENvUkUgV0cuDQo+ IERPVFMgc2lnbmFsIGNoYW5uZWwgaXMgdXNpbmcgdGhlIEhvcC1MaW1pdCBPcHRpb24gZGVmaW5l ZCBpbiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KPiANCj4gQ2hlZXJzLA0KPiAtVGlydQ0KPiANCj4gLS0tLS1Pcmln aW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogY29yZSA8Y29yZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBP biBCZWhhbGYgT2YgQ2Fyc3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAx MSwgMjAxOCAxOjI1IEFNDQo+IFRvOiBDb3JlIDxjb3JlQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBb Y29yZV0g8J+UlCBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBvZiBkcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItY29yZS1ob3AtbGltaXQN Cj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgZW1haWwgb3JpZ2luYXRlZCBmcm9tIG91dHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIG9yZ2FuaXph dGlvbi4gRG8gbm90IGNsaWNrIGxpbmtzIG9yDQo+IG9wZW4gYXR0YWNobWVudHMgdW5sZXNzIHlv dSByZWNvZ25pemUgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQga25vdyB0aGUgY29udGVudCBpcw0KPiBzYWZlLg0K PiANCj4gSXQgc2VlbXMgd2UgaGF2ZSBjb252ZXJnZWQgYXQgZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWlyLWNvcmUt aG9wLWxpbWl0IGFzIHRoZSBkcmFmdA0KPiBwcm92aWRpbmcgdGhlIGhvcCBsaW1pdCBmdW5jdGlv biBuZWVkZWQgYnkgRE9UUywgYnV0IHdlIGhhdmVu4oCZdCBkb25lIHRoZQ0KPiBmb3JtYWwgV0cg YWRvcHRpb24geWV0Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyBpcyBhIGZvcm1hbCBjYWxsIGZvciBhZG9wdGlvbiBv ZiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGFzIGEgV0cgZG9jdW1lbnQgb2YgdGhlIENvUkUNCj4gV0cuDQo+IElmIHlv dSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0aW5nIGl0LCBwbGVhc2Ugc2F5 IHNvLg0KPiBJZiB5b3Ugc2VlIGEgcHJvYmxlbSB3aXRoIGFkb3B0aW5nIGl0IGFzIGEgV0cgZG9j dW1lbnQsIHBsZWFzZSB0ZWxsIHVzLg0KPiBGb3IgYm90aCwgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhhdCBXRyBhZG9w dGlvbiBkb2VzIG5vdCBtZWFuIHRoYXQgd2UgYWxyZWFkeSBoYXZlDQo+IGNvbnNlbnN1cyBvbiBh bGwgdGhlIGRldGFpbHMsIGp1c3QgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIHRoZSByaWdodCB3b3JraW5nIGRvY3Vt ZW50IHRvDQo+IGFkZHJlc3MgdGhlIGlzc3VlIChhbmQgdGhhdCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgYWRkcmVzcyB0 aGUgaXNzdWUgaW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHBsYWNlKS4NCj4gUGxlYXNlIGRvIG1lbnRpb24gYW55IGlz c3VlcyB0aGF0IHlvdSBhbHJlYWR5IGtub3c7IHRoZXNlIGFsc28gY2FuIGJlIGJyb3VnaHQNCj4g dXAgaW4gV2VkbmVzZGF54oCZcyB2aXJ0dWFsIGludGVyaW0gV2ViZXggY2FsbC4NCj4gDQo+IFRo aXMgZm9ybWFsIFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uIGNhbGwgcnVucyB1bnRpbCB0aGUgZW5kIG9mIFNlcHRlbWJl ciAxN3RoLg0KPiAoR2l2ZW4gdGhlIHN0YXRlIG9mIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLCB3ZSBtaWdodCB0 aGVuIGhhdmUgYSBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwIGxhc3QNCj4gY2FsbCBvZiBhbiB1cGRhdGVkIGRvY3Vt ZW50IHJpZ2h0IG5leHQuKQ0KPiANCj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rlbg0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gY29yZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4gY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2NvcmUNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IERvdHNA aWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQo= From nobody Tue Sep 11 06:01:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99AD12F1A2; 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Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:01:21 GMT To: Carsten Bormann , draft-ietf-core-sid@ietf.org, "draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor@ietf.org" Cc: "core@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:01:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.158, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-158.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [core] Status of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-06 and draft-ietf-core-sid-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:01:30 -0000 Hi Carsten, I was just wondering what the status was of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-06 and draft-ietf-core-sid-04 please. I.e. how close are these documents to being ready for WG LC. Kind regards, Rob From nobody Tue Sep 11 06:11:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984271294D0; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n0cTrsCcjRxv; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4809B12785F; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B473417B1; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:11:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8E336; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C389443; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:11:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 13568 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:11:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:11:25 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: draft-hartke-core-stateless@ietf.org Cc: Jim Schaad , 'Core' Message-ID: <20180911131124.GA5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5vNYLRcllDrimb99" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:11:35 -0000 --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Klaus, On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 04:07:48PM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > Section 3.1 - I am not sure that I agree that the option should be unsafe= to > forward. As long as a client and a server agree to deal with the option > then it does not matter what any intermediate proxies might do. Changing > this modifies 3.2.2 as well I also think that the option can be safe to forward -- as long as the origin server replies with the "option part" of the token, the proxy will return the full original request identity (token plus option part) back. Either way, one could add that a proxy is free to take responsibility of the Extended-Token itself, make a note to insert it into the response, and forward the request without any Extended-Token, relieving the origin server of the responsibility to deal with the critical option. (I figure that any non-constrained proxy would want to do that, as it limits the way a Extended-Token request can fail). Best regards Christian` --=20 I shouldn't have written all those tank programs. -- Kevin Flynn --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAluXvvkACgkQOY0REtOk veFjJBAAhkXXNsZcKGmlp7W8qZHVhMRolWGcAwOijp9Hkq3DhBuSO1vPTyS+FJfV HHC5olz9i8giFi/dDv86o6k1/YB8ksUYo0dYM5d/AJElsG607D7ZcQbZwW+l8SAh kz0I0ub+nxaWZM8lvH2n/0jSKQHvGJxNs8GYGMeAW83j8n0uFeMZQHp3H9nZebw1 LgTL+bhglmuAQ4uDZa/TLIzJLhvUyzbNYtXOeJLhWcjw7AtlJatwNiqIc95hGRF4 48nijeo7+AE/vuXKjWV80VpCyzH6nZEytwEqweyx5E0YHpeLAjnvsfw7qZdoXDcw ClCsWusJZxzVBJm1Tal97XTxmisPdYw7Jg0feYf8bwtmIRcl3dpLw0yelT+a+IKA MIzaMzXd6x2wMWbFGjpQ4kPtusxLL8kQhvybpKTa6JDjZTMOGl9o8r7yqHtiBtZa 3fe7q88Gf7omutjBdmKThovTVcrXkdb1F2R08Kox6eG324jqC2LogybPbQqdOL1q 65eysiS97LWukePDKOgfMKtjdSbzWVEtSqBwQNd663nCajoAM970yeTA9czG3GtP hqih4jxQnR2c0hyrlc4eY7wqXAkYmqTzf7J5zlDgRRknxMvMHRWLPedIpLpz5aNl D9mj5rmX99AMr9kmJBpP3UNEx5BeTQNuHVoJAyhPOcKdBvsty/8= =6nOn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5vNYLRcllDrimb99-- From nobody Tue Sep 11 06:15:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1523B12785F; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B2FvMDTlW7Us; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18CAE124D68; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fziWA-0006ZY-EU; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:15:46 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDDE5F@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDDE5F@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:15:47 +0100 Message-ID: <03c101d449d1$8d882790$a89876b0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFD0U/tn4+N/a82OMnUGX025vj6NKYL//aA Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=5BDots=5D___=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?boucadair-core-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:15:50 -0000 Likewise, I do not have any IPR related to this draft. Regards Jon -----Original Message----- From: Dots [mailto:ietf-supjps-dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = ietf-supjps-mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Sent: 11 September 2018 13:47 To: core@ietf.org Cc: dots@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dots] [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit Hi all, I support this draft, obviously.=20 FWIW, I don't have any IPR related to this draft.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Jon Shallow > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 11 septembre 2018 13:03 > =C3=80 : core@ietf.org; 'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'; dots@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [Dots] FW: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > Hi CoRE WG, >=20 > I have read the draft and support it. > I do not see any issues with it being a WG document. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Jon >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, = Tirumaleswar > Reddy > Sent: 11 September 2018 06:57 > To: dots@ietf.org > Subject: [Dots] FW: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Please review = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit-00 > and respond to the WG adoption call in CoRE WG. > DOTS signal channel is using the Hop-Limit Option defined in this = draft. >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:25 AM > To: Core > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG adoption of = draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click = links or > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content = is > safe. >=20 > It seems we have converged at draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit as the = draft > providing the hop limit function needed by DOTS, but we = haven=E2=80=99t done the > formal WG adoption yet. >=20 > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE > WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have > consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to > address the issue (and that we should address the issue in the first = place). > Please do mention any issues that you already know; these also can be = brought > up in Wednesday=E2=80=99s virtual interim Webex call. >=20 > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of September 17th. > (Given the state of the discussion, we might then have a Working Group = last > call of an updated document right next.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Sep 11 06:31:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3A612F1A2 for ; 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Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:40:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B84032A; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:40:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 15824 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:40:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:40:47 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "draft-hartke-core-stateless@ietf.org" , 'Core' Message-ID: <20180911134046.GB5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> <20180911131124.GA5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <6131e11057e84ec3882d487b32965856@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6131e11057e84ec3882d487b32965856@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:40:54 -0000 --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Klaus, On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 01:31:14PM +0000, Klaus Hartke wrote: > But proxies also generate responses themselves, e.g., from cached > responses or in case of errors (5.02, 5.04). We don't want clients to > receive the extended token from another client or no extended token at > all when a proxy does not support the option. As long as the option is part of the cache key, any cached response would need to have a matching request Extended-Token and thus would have a matching response Extended-Token as well. If those, by any chance, match up between two different staetless proxies, *and* if there is a cached fresh response available, then so be it, may the new request receive the original response. After all, it is fresh, and the response Extended-Token returned is exactly the one requested. If both requesting stateless proxies were stateful ones, neither request would have a Extended-Token option, and the second client would receive the cached request just as well. (This is about the astronomically unlikely case of a collision in the integrity protected tokens; it's way more likely that the stateless proxy re-requested the resource on behalf of the very same origin if such a cache hit happens. But still, even if, it'd be OK). Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIyBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAluXxdwACgkQOY0REtOk veEPfw/4/Zd491k7mb0CDPR/JMkfDQRTcpSxy20n13CfLWmY/5pRYFfqrOk3d2xE FsuWQYgD9zEcK+h+EeZEd5oRFlt6s5uXCPq2+KEF4f/d+s4PdxcPV5et+4E3ImLi t73JH41dE5MQdITdTz454ToXtEOieSqZ6s6XBLQhc/HmLV1Bx669uSwuFvYoNvQ0 R4dpge4SMp11KIJh5E3eb+F3EXkVYwXMBwfOjWj9A/hL31pUt/Pf5ZaXjNvSY8yX KWnrR9xjn0tMGdoLagAWLA2+jX8+gerJuSe8grbbz/GeG2NHBDf3lvy60nr3sZuB +XTZtdYXtspwfIcp/Ulo9NAC8SyFzIlq+TYplSWaAHj4hilzups7RMOBoB8ic7Wr QQa6RlcZ0AK7j5pGzYr7O9oD1wyibzp/09HFWeaOzAArV71N2svXwPI/qBfhpwXu CcChE/zQ7bHoRvJx7fq58lG1/f20lVu3/TB/6t5jHKQx47iwGWPm6qJd0GTvpNtV 7AKY+g+TtqEBJASwGzfHsRzNwmkOwDBfR7M6QCZ66aTbNJ5ZtqTIi+EPddkV8fRC 0ySWTbZhqgNXTTl3rz1fSQ0pOXwLsXpup2pLc6+P4RdnoHf0D0EcvsgU3/Z8meFU bXrn8YdX4KzdWJWsA1hoCGsla4i07g5upZCmZLxE4x6wXswisA== =CJWB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1-- From nobody Tue Sep 11 08:40:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C034131045; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4dOPmKhb2d8j; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 972FF130F46; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:35:39 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Klaus Hartke' , =?utf-8?Q?'Christian_Ams=C3=BCss'?= , CC: 'Core' References: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> <20180911131124.GA5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <6131e11057e84ec3882d487b32965856@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <6131e11057e84ec3882d487b32965856@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:39:34 -0700 Message-ID: <010201d449e5$a586f290$f094d7b0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGCaMHPcnJIPK10eKvsaWNjM2LnMwLfWkYSAbsrDlylaiVqkA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:40:09 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Hartke > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 6:31 AM > To: Christian Ams=C3=BCss ; draft-hartke-core- > stateless@ietf.org > Cc: Jim Schaad ; 'Core' > Subject: RE: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless >=20 > Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > > I also think that the option can be safe to forward -- as long as = the > > origin server replies with the "option part" of the token, the proxy > > will return the full original request identity (token plus option = part) back. >=20 > Right, proxies could simply forward the extended tokens in the = requests and > responses generated by clients and servers. But proxies also generate > responses themselves, e.g., from cached responses or in case of errors = (5.02, > 5.04). We don't want clients to receive the extended token from = another client > or no extended token at all when a proxy does not support the option. >=20 > I can't think of any way to get sensible behavior without the proxies > understanding what's going on. If the option is part of the cache key for proxies which do not = understand the option then you will not have that problem. Jim >=20 > Klaus From nobody Tue Sep 11 11:50:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2345D130EEF; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:50:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=trilliant.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eeZZeyLzlX1n; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM04-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr700132.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.70.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32391130EDF; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR06MB2684; H:DM5PR06MB2777.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: trilliant.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: um29H9RgsL1ZYO+07FS8lLLT/qd1dUVNTrfrY7J3oe9sN5ZcXqArWRRJz+/1dtsijec9pmFxzdMYnpXFo9k9cBIIhK+btluResm2L5M5qzeqsaaegDpY9HJlMfDu+0Y0n/6S7/mGY+P9txNkwOlMmq9n0C6p6Qisgy+trxY0+NBmwBtaZkmcD2knEK0zg5i+mirOtgtFhrHPN8d+pGymrfZbP2rAaOQKoav+5GnJ15XQtu8fVMLlwNlS8ctRtx0j5L6MZGMzpXiet5Dgdttwkj48ygmCp18XvSK0q5zcl4NCT3XH+QCNY89/VT7wtmw5pHbkjpVvm0tmAi+wdGTan8b/pDudM5BQVAhHJIhl25A= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM5PR06MB2777C1A09C6AAE5078790BF49A040DM5PR06MB2777namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Trilliant.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f43fb551-f975-4c63-b639-08d618177700 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Sep 2018 18:50:37.8103 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f6fbd13-0dfb-4150-85c3-d43260c04309 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR06MB2684 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Next version of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor available for review on github X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 18:50:45 -0000 --_000_DM5PR06MB2777C1A09C6AAE5078790BF49A040DM5PR06MB2777namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The updated version of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-yan= g-cbor/ is available at http://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt. To generate a diff of the proposed changes, enter: https://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draf= t-ietf-core-yang-cbor-06.txt&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draf= t-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt Comments or updates to this draft can be email to me until Friday. Good review, Michel Veillette --_000_DM5PR06MB2777C1A09C6AAE5078790BF49A040DM5PR06MB2777namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The updated version of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor/ is availabl= e

at http://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt= .

 

To generate a diff of the propo= sed changes, enter:

https://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://www.ietf.or= g/archive/id/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-06.txt&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.git= hub.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt=

 

Comments or updates to this dra= ft can be email to me until Friday.

 

Good review,<= /p>

Michel Veillette

 

 

--_000_DM5PR06MB2777C1A09C6AAE5078790BF49A040DM5PR06MB2777namp_-- From nobody Tue Sep 11 13:26:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFAC130E05; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:25:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xSDuui4nMEO0; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D7A5130DC5; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A3E20090; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 9EBFD82; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA3C7C; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:25:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: core@ietf.org cc: anima@ietf.org Reply-to: core@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [core] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:25:53 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain tl;dr> **** HOW SHOULD SID VALUES BE DOCUMENTED IN RFCs? **** BACKGROUND: The ANIMA WG is using https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-06 (expired in August, I hope it will be updated soon) and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-04 to encode RFC8366 defined vouchers in CBOR. They are then signed with CMS or COSE. We have been using the sid.py pyang extension created by Michel Veillette to allocate the sid from the YANG definitions. We have two questions. QUESTIONS: 1) as one can see at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher-02#section-6.1.2 After the traditional dump of the yang tree view, we are showing the resulting assignments in a table in the ID (slightly edited from above): SID Assigned to --------- -------------------------------------------------- 1001150 module ietf-constrained-voucher-request 1001154 data .../voucher 1001155 data .../assertion 1001156 data .../created-on 1001157 data .../domain-cert-revocation-checks 1001158 data .../expires-on 1001159 data .../idevid-issuer 1001160 data .../last-renewal-date 1001161 data .../nonce 1001162 data .../pinned-domain-cert 1001163 data .../prior-signed-voucher-request 1001164 data .../proximity-registrar-cert 1001165 data .../proximity-registrar-subject-public-key-info 1001166 data .../serial-number the 1001150:50 space of SIDs was assigned by comi.space. This display was produced originally by minor editing of the result of the --list-sids option to the sid.py plugin. The allocation does not start at 1001150 because some IDs are used to number the YANG modules that were included. We are among the first users of the sid.py plugin, and the (re-)numbering of all of the include modules in this way is likely a mistake, which has not been solved. Before I solve the underlying problems and fix the output to produce what I think I want, we felt it was important to ask the WG... **** HOW SHOULD SID VALUES BE DOCUMENTED IN RFCs? **** I'm not enthusiastic about including the .sid files only, but it could be done, and we could say that they are normative, while --list-sid style above is not. SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? 2) Given that https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-04#section-6.1 allocates the first 1,000,000 to IANA, then comi.space has started to give out entries > 1,000,000 it seems that comi.space ought to get the 1,000,000 -> 1,999,999 "mega-range" assigned to it. The question is, what should a document that has allocated a range from comi.space do it's in IANA Considerations? If ietf-core-sid could be advanced sooner, and IANA could create the registry, we could ask for an early allocation value in the 100,000 -> 999,999 range from IANA. Alternatively, ietf-core-sid-04 could allocate a range to our document in the section 6.1.2 "RFC SID range assignment" sub-registry. 3) It appears that there might be a typo in ietf-core-sid-04, section 6.1.1: o The range of 100,000 to 999,999 is reserved for standardized YANG modules. The IANA policy for future additions to this sub- registry is "Specification Required" [RFC5226]. Allocation within this range requires publishing of the associated ".yang" and ".sid" files in the YANG module registry. +-------------+---------------+------------------------+ | Entry Point | Size | IANA policy | +-------------+---------------+------------------------+ | 0 | 1,000 | IETF review | | 1,000 | 59,000 | RFC required | | 60,000 | 40,000 | Experimental use | | 100,000 | 1,000,000,000 | Specification Required | +-------------+---------------+------------------------+ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- seem to be too many zeros -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluYJM0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXhpQgAuSyuT8uj1+KD3DHB4WZmZ/HVpceWM0IlDD1iJa+LABd/MxdSgCWqG6sV hCWNzqlQqGWyE91rbfv+QoVghyYfRFGtZlTw8whVqSZ27qOM9eof2aXaG6+DH04X ahpyJAI2lU/7AdLMKsULaV4Likja5NPJ+p5mMjg8AgLmUbTEAUb2qpmGKtkM+iyX bmhTI6Jm41PZNpHZ+WJW6bXN4abMQHr8esf3AuTho+FqmPE6/fjgPL3bLrtXf6mX vr48poByZZo9KFghbmEtNt3HdavIZrUUKcWTO7/C+hcg9iIRivP3WVvL0DCsdMe6 vwtvOi8ZFrvkHyzQgSvFwP9SQGJ+XA== =rU/G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Sep 11 15:12:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4B4130F39; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:12:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4RNWolKzaKZw; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FAA130F1F; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 15:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8BMCWud020122; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:12:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p54A6C24D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.194.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 428zg36ln6zDXZc; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:12:31 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <17342.1536697549@localhost> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 00:12:30 +0200 Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558396748.855919-352811b253da707d51afed5bfaf58864 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 22:12:37 -0000 On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what = goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write = something at a particular point in time. So let=E2=80=99s discuss this = with the authors. In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion more = than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the = conventions we use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the = technical content of draft-ietf-core-sid. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Sep 11 16:10:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C21130E0E; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:10:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nzvC_nX7iNSQ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBF19130F59; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BA020090; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 6980582; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664E97C; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 19:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann cc: Core , anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:10:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten Bormann wrote: >> SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? > Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. It's not just allocations, but presentation. > draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what > goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write > something at a particular point in time. So let=E2=80=99s discuss th= is with > the authors. agreed. > In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion > more than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the c= onventions > we use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical > content of draft-ietf-core-sid. I don't want a prescription either, but rather a BCP that evolves. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluYS0cACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXyawgArIQ/w1QnSFW8BqkeWsfo8gk+Aux74cTTIOSNfk2srfu3GpCrhIms3gEj Gf6fUvqOWq/1fwgiwdFsT2HWtJsANZrVL9et+nTOloN0UMfaM+oZfw/+0qQddXs5 fjI+gjSFeqBFtXNHe4vuiIa98hDM/pP0wkmu4JfnqDto/zGtxLRhaEmuyuEeAGLH VVK0e2nt2M2CdCVbf96Cir3jIFEzJ6ivrLKkp6uEZgdN93hUvVeRDkJNenYtjEDr 0iSrbaKPZXUPuBbzptgeUZIl6M2tnvzZgGlKHONv4BUpNbRbuyT8UO5Z4Hn/qwnU XZmJNzO/jmve3SmnSGOtlzkpZAzgEg== =Xolk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Sep 11 16:32:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA1FD130F63 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p0aCYa8MvGwZ for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EFA6130F59 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id q13-v6so50852lfc.2 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tXZ1rq9gX01WW7kNl5mQmG1et0TGwBc/LAOGHi8zjck=; b=hl9NoxsHm6jnlnvT1/ev0gN7E11z7/8YUJTTe8rCqQbUS1TtG/cvqTfbk0sZQLlWud +6IQe9Li/JM+ET0kkCdH0+uA9LRcxeEpnLxT0USEbmZXj8TVlDaFyz4If8P1+UAv+1D2 cXq6Xzmo+5+NMKxUSBdp4/mpJzCs+t0nvB4EgOW0Cq+3OpCYORB/NaArb09ejyyY705E rzgM1sE5zOfWWKm0S2S/ur1/v8P+pihZrmSrkw56oQp/krBDQwSR0eOXmSwFToh2xKqV pojtpSlfKI/DWM8VhXwPxh6YPwz5dFCfdzBtDIpHb883mirm6qLo7F5dW50sXVMlZDF0 YTjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tXZ1rq9gX01WW7kNl5mQmG1et0TGwBc/LAOGHi8zjck=; b=WB5+Zed5624w2WcxR1gYMZDT2I9dH9lriZ1jOoa6R0vTwYbLR8qydAN8OpPfuHy0tc JOnSr4cnCy0x+siH6hecHkqJUO0dJos3b3uOC9ddpxGdzg0X2rhs0uaYuLPZs+tcIGmU nDhDF3cJnfJHY1G8Ik51AvX6MdFNsg8R7Wj9dGEgqroIJq1uWm1nTRAteB+Mpm6Zu9ew Ouw/3OsYKzGKCIFnTtGFX672P1YdTzD3NZ/m3KtDm5QivYnBuW3ZZ6eePsA88Yp972UG eMnhRyelxMHSHK2vKb1c6kW4vjOLVKEtumFpZV4fulQdUmoCmsL1nHJvwcl+7oanYQEN x8Dw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51ANzSuzCt9qftjeLgmaJJbthA84r0Xf+W9llqAoRxvGcRDNIyM/ 7VFdKyv5T7m7RTohrp+ek55hP+CgLMhEcxliH0ezhA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbBqLbc18PVVq6+jikWlfrQoT+RpeO5zyrA5MukgW35qIb7PLyKE7Q19jW5omkalg5sQe8rnHflebyQTYepsY4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:8c55:: with SMTP id i21-v6mr17222908lfj.90.1536708760004; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:48c9:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Core , anima@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c3810d0575a0e3c4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 23:32:45 -0000 --000000000000c3810d0575a0e3c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > > > SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? > > Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. > > draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what goe= s > into what document is often a question of who has time to write something > at a particular point in time. So let=E2=80=99s discuss this with the au= thors. > > In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion more > than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the convention= s we use > for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical content of > draft-ietf-core-sid. > > You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Drafts with volatile SID assignments and RFCs with permanent SID assignments. Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID) to be as painful as possible or as seamless as possible? Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual deployments. Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same thing as correctness of all SID files across an entire administrative domain. I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for CORE WG but punting the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --000000000000c3810d0575a0e3c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann <= cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Mich= ael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:
>
> SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this?

Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs.

draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what goes = into what document is often a question of who has time to write something a= t a particular point in time.=C2=A0 So let=E2=80=99s discuss this with the = authors.

In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion more th= an prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the conventions we= use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical content of d= raft-ietf-core-sid.


You probably want to make a clear dist= inction between Internet Drafts with volatile SID assignments
and= RFCs with permanent SID assignments.

Do you want = early implementation (of modules using SID) =C2=A0to be as painful as possi= ble or as seamless as possible?
Renumbering SID assignments may b= e extremely disruptive to actual deployments.
Correctness of a SI= D file within a source document is not the same thing as correctness of all= SID files
across an entire administrative domain.

=
I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope fo= r CORE WG but punting
the problem to vendors or operators will no= t be good enough.



Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


Andy
=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

--000000000000c3810d0575a0e3c4-- From nobody Wed Sep 12 01:19:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6671294D7; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CzHcq-6C4HZ0; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 129C5130E42; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 429F6t3VyFz4x4d; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:19:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.43]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 429F6t2hf4z8sY1; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:19:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e172:f13e:8be6:71cc%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 10:19:02 +0200 From: To: Jim Schaad , "draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.org" CC: 'core' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit Thread-Index: AdQ6lZtWzVfWrqOXTka5fHNwSfnzLwP0eWXw Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:19:01 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDEB7E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <008c01d43a98$7beb5f90$73c21eb0$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <008c01d43a98$7beb5f90$73c21eb0$@augustcellars.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:19:10 -0000 Hi Jim, all,=20 Thank you for sharing the comments. Please see inline.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 23 ao=FBt 2018 06:19 > =C0=A0: draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.org > Cc=A0: 'core' > Objet=A0: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > Section 3 - para 2 - It would be clearer to me to say that the Hop-Limit > value is between 0 and 255 inclusive rather than talk about the length of > the option because I don't know if that includes all of the option encodi= ng > bytes or not. >=20 [Med] Done in my local copy.=20 > Section 3 - para 4 - Probably does not matter, but the current algorithm > wastes one bit. Check for 0 and then decrement would give one addition > possible field. It would also compress down the size of the encoded opti= on > faster. >=20 > Section 3 - I don't know that you only want to have a proxy information > appearing once. If it appears multiple times then you can easily spot th= e > loop. No real option one way or the other. >=20 [Med] We had that restrictions for two reasons: - ease correlation between hop count and the information recorded in the bo= dy. - maintain a reasonable message size.=20 > Section 3 - Last paragraph - I presume that a border proxy could remove > rather than re-write the option as well. This would be esp. true if for > example it was changing transports. >=20 [Med] Yes, fixed in my local copy.=20 > Section 4.2 - Someplace there needs to be a discussion on why the values = of > C, U and N >=20 > I would have expected the values to be > - Critical - no [Med] Agree.=20 > - Unsafe - no - a proxy which does not understand the option should still > forward it on. At worst you will get the same behavior as if the option = was > not included. [Med] We set it to "Unsafe - yes" for the DOTS case because the proxies are= under the control of the same entity and we wanted to have something relia= ble. I do agree that for the general CoAP case, we can relax that to "Unsaf= e - no" > - NoCacheKey - yes - If you get two gets for the same resource with > different hop counts the proxy should still be able to return the current= ly > cached value. >=20 [Med] Will add some text to explain the rationale for setting the C/U/N val= ues. Thanks.=20 > Section 5 - There is a potential privacy consideration that may need to b= e > covered. The return value is going to provide an eavesdropper a large > amount of information on the configuration of the network. Is there valu= e > to configuring so that the error but not the trace stack is provided? >=20 >=20 [Med] Good point. There is still a value in returning the error even withou= t the trace as this allows a peer to know why a request failed. Proxies at = boundaries are supposed to generate alarms to administrators. We can consider adding the following:=20 - a proxy which is located at the boundary of an administrative domain may = be instructed to strip the diagnostic payload or part of it before forwardi= ng 5.06 upstream. =20 From nobody Wed Sep 12 01:35:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5363F130E3C for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 01:35:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jWl7llZg3-Y3 for ; 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Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:31:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0131.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0131.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 429PPC0lsvzDXlV; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:31:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7212FE3A-9AD7-4C0F-AFC5-2A1114D13A02" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:31:58 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558455516.704969-46e9e237ffde740ab8bb73cbf89951ca Message-Id: <4682AD72-FD6A-4E08-A696-A080A3615EC5@tzi.org> References: <1883574735.1625.1536762111901.JavaMail.nobody@gjsj2tc123.webex.com> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Webex details for today's virtual Interim X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:32:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7212FE3A-9AD7-4C0F-AFC5-2A1114D13A02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m starting to understand this Webex thing. Here are the Webex details for the meeting today (which starts in a bit = less than half an hour). Agenda so far: =E2=80=94 Content-Format 62 (multipart-core) is allocated =E2=80=94 finishing touches for draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit (In = working group adoption call); any other continuation of the previous = interim =E2=80=94 minutes from previous interim: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-core-02/materials/minute= s-interim-2018-core-02-201808291500 = =E2=80=94 way forward with stateless proxies as needed for 6tisch, = specifically draft-hartke-core-stateless: Approach A or B (or something = unknown yet?) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > Virtual Interim > Wednesday, September 12, 2018 > 3:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr > Meeting number (access code): 317 115 178 > Meeting password: constrained >=20 >=20 > =20 > Add to Calendar = =09 > When it's time, join the meeting = . > =20 > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > =20 > Can't join the meeting? = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_7212FE3A-9AD7-4C0F-AFC5-2A1114D13A02 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6B794210-DB45-4325-A89F-C757E88A6F39" --Apple-Mail=_6B794210-DB45-4325-A89F-C757E88A6F39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80= =99m starting to understand this Webex thing.

Here are the Webex details for the = meeting today (which starts in a bit less than half an hour).

Agenda so far:

=E2=80=94 Content-Format = 62 (multipart-core) is allocated
=E2=80=94 = finishing touches for draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit (In working group = adoption call); any other continuation of the previous = interim
    =E2=80=94 minutes from = previous interim:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-core-02/mater= ials/minutes-interim-2018-core-02-201808291500
=E2=80=94= way forward with stateless proxies as needed for 6tisch, specifically = draft-hartke-core-stateless: Approach A or B (or something = unknown yet?)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten


Virtual = Interim
Wednesday, September 12, 2018
3:00 pm  |  Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, = GMT)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 317 115 = 178
Meeting password: constrained


 
Add to = Calendar
When it's time, join the = meeting.
 
Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)
 
Can't join the = meeting?
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the = session.
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=09=09Join=20= Webex=20meeting=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=09=09=09=09=09
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=09= =09

 
 
Join=20by=20phone =20
1-650-479-3208 Call-in=20toll=20= number=20(US/Canada) =20


=09 
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--Apple-Mail=_6B794210-DB45-4325-A89F-C757E88A6F39-- --Apple-Mail=_7212FE3A-9AD7-4C0F-AFC5-2A1114D13A02-- From nobody Wed Sep 12 07:52:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90C6130DD8; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mV7dJ6Fwj4dJ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55002130DC6; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:48:25 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: , CC: 'core' , References: <008c01d43a98$7beb5f90$73c21eb0$@augustcellars.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDEB7E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDEB7E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:52:20 -0700 Message-ID: <018a01d44aa8$36bfaf00$a43f0d00$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJuqcW/fDeCE10vqelGbqrPN3jeeAFnZ+Hto6zA/hA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:52:54 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 1:19 AM > To: Jim Schaad ; draft-boucadair-core-hop- > limit@ietf.org > Cc: 'core' ; dots@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 > Hi Jim, all, >=20 > Thank you for sharing the comments. >=20 > Please see inline. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De=A0: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com] Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi = 23 ao=FBt > > 2018 06:19 =C0=A0: draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.org > > Cc=A0: 'core' > > Objet=A0: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit > > >=20 > > Section 3 - para 4 - Probably does not matter, but the current > > algorithm wastes one bit. Check for 0 and then decrement would give > > one addition possible field. It would also compress down the size = of > > the encoded option faster. Did you miss this? > > > > Section 3 - I don't know that you only want to have a proxy > > information appearing once. If it appears multiple times then you = can > > easily spot the loop. No real option one way or the other. > > >=20 > [Med] We had that restrictions for two reasons: > - ease correlation between hop count and the information recorded in = the > body. > - maintain a reasonable message size. Looks like I was half asleep - should have been no real opinion either = way. This is fine. You may want to comment on that but I don't really care. > > Section 5 - There is a potential privacy consideration that may need > > to be covered. The return value is going to provide an eavesdropper = a > > large amount of information on the configuration of the network. Is > > there value to configuring so that the error but not the trace stack = is > provided? > > > > >=20 > [Med] Good point. There is still a value in returning the error even without the > trace as this allows a peer to know why a request failed. Proxies at boundaries > are supposed to generate alarms to administrators. >=20 > We can consider adding the following: > - a proxy which is located at the boundary of an administrative domain = may be > instructed to strip the diagnostic payload or part of it before = forwarding 5.06 > upstream. That would be fine. Jim From nobody Wed Sep 12 07:56:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41FD130DD8 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V6EPj3pdBpH1 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9F19130DC6 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:52:07 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Klaus Hartke' , 'Core' References: <009901d4495b$194c4f30$4be4ed90$@augustcellars.com> <20180911131124.GA5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <6131e11057e84ec3882d487b32965856@ericsson.com> <20180911134046.GB5521@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <018b01d44aa8$bb6979c0$323c6d40$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGCaMHPcnJIPK10eKvsaWNjM2LnMwLfWkYSAbsrDlwCcqOSXwHNl/IgpUmpc0A= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 14:56:52 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Klaus Hartke > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 1:35 AM > To: 'Core' > Subject: Re: [core] draft-hartke-core-stateless >=20 > Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > > > But proxies also generate responses themselves, e.g., from cached > > > responses or in case of errors (5.02, 5.04). We don't want clients > > > to receive the extended token from another client or no extended > > > token at all when a proxy does not support the option. > > > > As long as the option is part of the cache key, any cached response > > would need to have a matching request Extended-Token and thus would > > have a matching response Extended-Token as well. >=20 > I don't think it's very desirable to require tokens to match when = serving a > cached response. >=20 > And there's still the other half of the problem: An unaware proxy = won't include > the option in responses it generates itself. Reiterate - For an unaware proxy having the item as part of the cached key prevents = it from generating responses itself. Text which says that aware proxies can omit the option from the cached = key allows them to generate responses out of the cache and they will = know that they need to process and return the option. Jim >=20 > Klaus >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Wed Sep 12 08:00:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D84130E3B for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:00:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mMBVuWHPcZKM for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03BC7130E64 for ; 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Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:06:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA1.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::95e2:eb4b:3053:fabf%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:06:05 +0200 From: To: Jim Schaad , "draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.org" CC: 'core' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit Thread-Index: AdQ6lZtWzVfWrqOXTka5fHNwSfnzLwP0eWXwAAv8EQAABI3mkA== Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:06:04 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDEF0E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <008c01d43a98$7beb5f90$73c21eb0$@augustcellars.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFDEB7E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <018a01d44aa8$36bfaf00$a43f0d00$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <018a01d44aa8$36bfaf00$a43f0d00$@augustcellars.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:06:15 -0000 Re-, Please see inline.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 12 septembre 2018 16:52 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.or= g > Cc=A0: 'core'; dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: RE: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 1:19 AM > > To: Jim Schaad ; draft-boucadair-core-hop- > > limit@ietf.org > > Cc: 'core' ; dots@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit > > > > Hi Jim, all, > > > > Thank you for sharing the comments. > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De=A0: Jim Schaad [mailto:ietf@augustcellars.com] Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi = 23 ao=FBt > > > 2018 06:19 =C0=A0: draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit@ietf.org > > > Cc=A0: 'core' > > > Objet=A0: Review Comments on draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit > > > > > > > > Section 3 - para 4 - Probably does not matter, but the current > > > algorithm wastes one bit. Check for 0 and then decrement would give > > > one addition possible field. It would also compress down the size of > > > the encoded option faster. >=20 > Did you miss this? [Med] Actually, no. I discussed with my co-authors. Tiru proposed this chan= ge:=20 "CoAP messages MUST NOT be forwarded if the Hop-Limit option is set to '0' = before decrement."=20 But I'm not sure this is superior to what we had already in the draft which= allows to detect the loop earlier in the forwarding path.=20 Please let us know if we missed your point.=20 >=20 > > > > > > Section 3 - I don't know that you only want to have a proxy > > > information appearing once. If it appears multiple times then you ca= n > > > easily spot the loop. No real option one way or the other. > > > > > > > [Med] We had that restrictions for two reasons: > > - ease correlation between hop count and the information recorded in th= e > > body. > > - maintain a reasonable message size. >=20 > Looks like I was half asleep - should have been no real opinion either wa= y. > This is fine. You may want to comment on that but I don't really care. >=20 > > > Section 5 - There is a potential privacy consideration that may need > > > to be covered. The return value is going to provide an eavesdropper = a > > > large amount of information on the configuration of the network. Is > > > there value to configuring so that the error but not the trace stack = is > > provided? > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Good point. There is still a value in returning the error even > without the > > trace as this allows a peer to know why a request failed. Proxies at > boundaries > > are supposed to generate alarms to administrators. > > > > We can consider adding the following: > > - a proxy which is located at the boundary of an administrative domain = may > be > > instructed to strip the diagnostic payload or part of it before forward= ing > 5.06 > > upstream. >=20 > That would be fine. [Med] OK, thanks. >=20 > Jim >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Sep 12 08:15:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C104130E1E; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wz1EkYKutbW8; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0249.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.249]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83C89130E43; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 08:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB8183777EE; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:15:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Spam-Summary: 2, -10, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, stokcons@bbhmail.nl, :::::::, RULES_HIT:41:72:152:355:379:582:599:800:960:962:967:973:983:988:989:1152:1189:1208:1212:1221:1260:1313:1314:1345:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1535:1543:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1711:1730:1776:1792:2068:2069:2198:2199:2525:2528:2553:2557:2559:2567:2570:2682:2685:2693:2703:2741:2827:2859:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3148:3354:3622:3642:3743:3769:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3873:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4118:4250:4321:4860:5007:6117:6119:6261:7875:7903:8603:9010:9025:9177:10004:10346:10400:11658:12379:12740:13139:13161:13229:13237, 0, RBL:error, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:fn, MSBL:0, DNSBL:neutral, Custom_rules:0:0:0, LFtime:34, LUA_SUMMARY:none X-HE-Tag: teeth68_2f751d4fa7043 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 7728 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf10.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:15:26 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_9802736c5b204041a9a69ea98371528f" Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:15:25 +0200 From: Peter van der Stok To: Andy Bierman Cc: Carsten Bormann , anima@ietf.org, Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> Message-ID: <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [90.0.216.32] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:15:30 -0000 --=_9802736c5b204041a9a69ea98371528f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, The numbering of the SIDs in our case should be as stable as possible after publication as RFC. A permanent assignment of the numbers, like the content-format numbers, would be very much appreciated. Using the same already allocated numbers for other RFCs would be quite disastrous. Maintenance of (part of) the comi.space by a organisation like IANA could be a possibility. Peter Andy Bierman schreef op 2018-09-12 01:32: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> >>> SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? >> >> Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. >> >> draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write something at a particular point in time. So let's discuss this with the authors. >> >> In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion more than prescribing a normative way of doing things -- the conventions we use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical content of draft-ietf-core-sid. > > You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Drafts with volatile SID assignments > and RFCs with permanent SID assignments. > > Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID) to be as painful as possible or as seamless as possible? > Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual deployments. > Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same thing as correctness of all SID files > across an entire administrative domain. > > I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for CORE WG but punting > the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough. > >> Grüße, Carsten > > Andy > >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core [1] > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima Links: ------ [1] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --=_9802736c5b204041a9a69ea98371528f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi all,

The numbering of the SIDs in our case should be as stabl= e as possible after publication as RFC.
A permanent assignment of the = numbers, like the content-format numbers, would be very much appreciated.Using the same already allocated numbers for other RFCs would be quite = disastrous.

Maintenance of (part of) the comi.space by a organis= ation like IANA could be a possibility.

Peter

Andy Bierman schreef op 2018-09-12 01:32:



On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann= <cabo@tzi.org<= /a>> wrote:
On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Ric= hardson <mcr= +ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>
> SHOULD ietf-core-s= id say something about this?

Yes, we should have a common way o= f handling SID allocations in RFCs.

draft-ietf-core-sid sounds = like a natural way to place this, but what goes into what document is often= a question of who has time to write something at a particular point in tim= e.  So let's discuss this with the authors.

In any case, t= his probably should stay at the level of a suggestion more than prescribing= a normative way of doing things — the conventions we use for this ma= y evolve faster than the rest of the technical content of draft-ietf-core-s= id.

 
You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Drafts = with volatile SID assignments
and RFCs with permanent SID assignments.
 
Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID)  to be as= painful as possible or as seamless as possible?
Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual depl= oyments.
Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same thi= ng as correctness of all SID files
across an entire administrative domain.
 
I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for CORE= WG but punting
the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough.
 
 
 
Grüße, Carsten
 
 
Andy
 

______________________________<= wbr />_________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

= _______________________________________________
Anima mailing listAnima@ietf.org<= br />https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima
--=_9802736c5b204041a9a69ea98371528f-- From nobody Wed Sep 12 09:15:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9324130DF3; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:15:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3U9aOTrf_ga; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51E22130E43; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8CGExa1027469; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:14:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0131.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0131.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 429Rh32SLkzDXmK; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:14:59 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:14:58 +0200 Cc: Andy Bierman , anima@ietf.org, Core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558461697.009642-e1d796edda0c37b966c3d736002b0eea Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> To: peter van der Stok X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:15:10 -0000 > On Sep 12, 2018, at 17:15, Peter van der Stok = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > The numbering of the SIDs in our case should be as stable as possible = after publication as RFC. > A permanent assignment of the numbers, like the content-format = numbers, would be very much appreciated. > Using the same already allocated numbers for other RFCs would be quite = disastrous. Yes, I think that part is clear. What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an idea of how to = evolve a draft in a way that minimizes damage from changing those = numbers during the development of that draft. So we need to start = allocating and managing SID numbers early in their lifetime, at least = from the point of time when a draft is becoming an =E2=80=9Cimplementation= draft=E2=80=9D (as opposed to just an idea that wants to be discussed). = That is not something we have traditionally done with IANA = registrations, which are traditionally considered a scarce resource and = thus should only be assigned to finished (or near-finished, hence = =E2=80=9Cearly allocations=E2=80=9D) protocols. My proposal would be: =E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts as = Implementation Drafts. Basically, any SIDs allocated before that are = without protection, but once we have an Implementation Draft, the SIDs = used in that will not be re-used. (Intermediate versions between = Implementation Drafts would again have any new SIDs in unprotected state = until another Implementation Draft is declared.) =E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the document (draft, = RFC). This is not beautiful, but unless we invent another = representation for that information, that is the interchangeable form. = (If we do invent another representation, maybe we should always use = that?) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > Maintenance of (part of) the comi.space by a organisation like IANA = could be a possibility. >=20 > Peter > Andy Bierman schreef op 2018-09-12 01:32: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann = wrote: >> On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson = wrote: >> >=20 >> > SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? >>=20 >> Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. >>=20 >> draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what = goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write = something at a particular point in time. So let's discuss this with the = authors. >>=20 >> In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion = more than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the = conventions we use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the = technical content of draft-ietf-core-sid. >>=20 >> =20 >> You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Drafts = with volatile SID assignments >> and RFCs with permanent SID assignments. >> =20 >> Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID) to be as = painful as possible or as seamless as possible? >> Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual = deployments. >> Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same = thing as correctness of all SID files >> across an entire administrative domain. >> =20 >> I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for = CORE WG but punting >> the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough. >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> =20 >> =20 >> Andy >> =20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Wed Sep 12 09:32:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62023130E7B for ; 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Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:48c9:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: peter van der Stok , anima@ietf.org, Core Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d6a0230575af2144" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:32:16 -0000 --000000000000d6a0230575af2144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > On Sep 12, 2018, at 17:15, Peter van der Stok > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > The numbering of the SIDs in our case should be as stable as possible > after publication as RFC. > > A permanent assignment of the numbers, like the content-format numbers, > would be very much appreciated. > > Using the same already allocated numbers for other RFCs would be quite > disastrous. > > Yes, I think that part is clear. > > What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an idea of how to > evolve a draft in a way that minimizes damage from changing those numbers > during the development of that draft. So we need to start allocating and > managing SID numbers early in their lifetime, at least from the point of > time when a draft is becoming an =E2=80=9Cimplementation draft=E2=80=9D (= as opposed to just > an idea that wants to be discussed). That is not something we have > traditionally done with IANA registrations, which are traditionally > considered a scarce resource and thus should only be assigned to finished > (or near-finished, hence =E2=80=9Cearly allocations=E2=80=9D) protocols. > > My proposal would be: > > =E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts as Implementatio= n > Drafts. Basically, any SIDs allocated before that are without > protection, but once we have an Implementation Draft, the SIDs used in > that will not be re-used. (Intermediate versions between Implementation > Drafts would again have any new SIDs in unprotected state until another > Implementation Draft is declared.) > > =E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the document (draft, RFC)= . This > is not beautiful, but unless we invent another representation for that > information, that is the interchangeable form. (If we do invent another > representation, maybe we should always use that?) > > Thanks for summarizing the issue and also for a very practical solution. The SID file needs to be included in the I-Ds and the RFC. The Implementation Draft idea sounds like the old discussions about "working group snapshots" but it very useful info to know the difference: - the module and SID assignments are not stable at all and MAY change at any time in the future - the module and SID assignments are from an Implementation Draft and SHOULD remain the same in future revisions - the module and SID assignments are from an RFC and MUST remain the same in future revisions Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > Andy > > > > > Maintenance of (part of) the comi.space by a organisation like IANA > could be a possibility. > > > > Peter > > Andy Bierman schreef op 2018-09-12 01:32: > > > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson > wrote: > >> > > >> > SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this? > >> > >> Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RFCs. > >> > >> draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but what > goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write > something at a particular point in time. So let's discuss this with the > authors. > >> > >> In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestion > more than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the conve= ntions we > use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical content of > draft-ietf-core-sid. > >> > >> > >> You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Drafts > with volatile SID assignments > >> and RFCs with permanent SID assignments. > >> > >> Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID) to be as > painful as possible or as seamless as possible? > >> Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual > deployments. > >> Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same > thing as correctness of all SID files > >> across an entire administrative domain. > >> > >> I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for CORE > WG but punting > >> the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough. > >> > >> > >> > >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > >> > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> core mailing list > >> core@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Anima mailing list > >> Anima@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > --000000000000d6a0230575af2144 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi= .org> wrote:


> On Sep 12, 2018, at 17:15, Peter van der Stok <stokcons@bbhmail.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> The numbering of the SIDs in our case should be as stable as possible = after publication as RFC.
> A permanent assignment of the numbers, like the content-format numbers= , would be very much appreciated.
> Using the same already allocated numbers for other RFCs would be quite= disastrous.

Yes, I think that part is clear.

What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an idea of how to evolve= a draft in a way that minimizes damage from changing those numbers during = the development of that draft.=C2=A0 So we need to start allocating and man= aging SID numbers early in their lifetime, at least from the point of time = when a draft is becoming an =E2=80=9Cimplementation draft=E2=80=9D (as oppo= sed to just an idea that wants to be discussed).=C2=A0 That is not somethin= g we have traditionally done with IANA registrations, which are traditional= ly considered a scarce resource and thus should only be assigned to finishe= d (or near-finished, hence =E2=80=9Cearly allocations=E2=80=9D) protocols.<= br>
My proposal would be:

=E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts as Implementation = Drafts.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Basically, any SIDs allocated before that are without p= rotection,=C2=A0 but once we have an Implementation Draft, the SIDs used in= that will not be re-used.=C2=A0 (Intermediate versions between Implementat= ion Drafts would again have any new SIDs in unprotected state until another= Implementation Draft is declared.)

=E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the document (draft, RFC).= =C2=A0 This is not beautiful, but unless we invent another representation f= or that information, that is the interchangeable form.=C2=A0 (If we do inve= nt another representation, maybe we should always use that?)


Thanks for summarizing the issue and a= lso for a very practical solution.
The SID file needs to be inclu= ded in the I-Ds and the RFC.
The Implementation Draft idea sounds= like the old discussions about "working group snapshots"
but it very useful info to know the difference:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0- the module and SID assignments are not stable at all and MA= Y change at any time in the future
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- the module and = SID assignments are from an Implementation Draft and SHOULD remain the same= in future revisions
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- the module and SID assig= nments are from an RFC and MUST remain the same in future revisions


Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


Andy
=C2=A0

>
> Maintenance of (part of) the comi.space by a organisation like IANA co= uld be a possibility.
>
> Peter
> Andy Bierman schreef op 2018-09-12 01:32:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 22:25, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > SHOULD ietf-core-sid say something about this?
>>
>> Yes, we should have a common way of handling SID allocations in RF= Cs.
>>
>> draft-ietf-core-sid sounds like a natural way to place this, but w= hat goes into what document is often a question of who has time to write so= mething at a particular point in time.=C2=A0 So let's discuss this with= the authors.
>>
>> In any case, this probably should stay at the level of a suggestio= n more than prescribing a normative way of doing things =E2=80=94 the conve= ntions we use for this may evolve faster than the rest of the technical con= tent of draft-ietf-core-sid.
>>
>>=C2=A0
>> You probably want to make a clear distinction between Internet Dra= fts with volatile SID assignments
>> and RFCs with permanent SID assignments.
>>=C2=A0
>> Do you want early implementation (of modules using SID)=C2=A0 to b= e as painful as possible or as seamless as possible?
>> Renumbering SID assignments may be extremely disruptive to actual = deployments.
>> Correctness of a SID file within a source document is not the same= thing as correctness of all SID files
>> across an entire administrative domain.
>>=C2=A0
>> I agree the administration of SID assignments is out of scope for = CORE WG but punting
>> the problem to vendors or operators will not be good enough.
>>=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0
>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>>=C2=A0
>>=C2=A0
>> Andy
>>=C2=A0
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> core mailing list
>> core@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Anima mailing list
>> Anima@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima=


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X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6372> : inlines <6876> : streams <1798306> : uri <2709454> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Webex details for today's virtual Interim X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:57:00 -0000 --_000_BN6PR16MB14251A39B2121B50697EB37AEA1A0BN6PR16MB1425namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UmVzcG9uZGluZyB0byB0aGUgT3BlbiBxdWVzdGlvbnM6DQoNCg0KKiBXb3VsZCBpdCBiZSB1c2Vm dWwgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIGdlbmVyYWwtcHVycG9zZSBjb250ZW50IGZvcm1hdCBmb3INCg0KcHJvdmlk aW5nIGRldGFpbHMgb2YgYW4gYWx0ZXJuYXRlIHNlcnZlciwgb3IgaXMgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u IHRvbw0KDQpET1RTLXNwZWNpZmljPw0KDQoNCg0KDQoNClJlc3BvbnNlPiBUaGUgaW5mb3JtYXRp b24gaXMgRE9UUy1zcGVjaWZpYywgdGhlIHJlc3BvbnNlIGNvbnZleXMgYm90aCB0aGUgYWx0ZXJu 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11:18:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Core , Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:18:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {removed anima from CC list} Carsten Bormann wrote: > What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an idea of how to > evolve a draft in a way that minimizes damage from changing those > numbers during the development of that draft. So we need to start > allocating and managing SID numbers early in their lifetime, at least > from the point of time when a draft is becoming an =E2=80=9Cimplement= ation > draft=E2=80=9D (as opposed to just an idea that wants to be discussed= ). That Agreed. I think that we will typically be need about ~100 per draft, sometimes as many as 1000, but never 10,000. 100 is a very small number compared to the size of the SID space. I think that the early allocation process will work fine, once we have a registry to allocate against. The comi.space mechanism is even lighter weight. > =E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts as Implement= ation > Drafts. Basically, any SIDs allocated before that are without > protection, but once we have an Implementation Draft, the SIDs used in > that will not be re-used. (Intermediate versions between > Implementation Drafts would again have any new SIDs in unprotected > state until another Implementation Draft is declared.) I think that we used to call these "Proposed standards" :-) I'm not sure we need to have this designation. I think that SID numbers are cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume some and then get abandonned. The numbers could be recycled 6 months after the draft expire= s. > =E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the document (draft, = RFC). > This is not beautiful, but unless we invent another representation for > that information, that is the interchangeable form. (If we do invent > another representation, maybe we should always use that?) I suggest it be included as an appendix. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluaf8UACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW9uwf/TkbW6pb3Ueb8ESMdJ72RvuB9b9jGwgrfCms7yo1jAR3XKs19I4LS82rI UDrMuaFa3twSpuS+3sgz03ZjXWJwAovQDdty6eiIpi7gAYo/6QFGKkOg8q+Ulprg 30yUJLCfntbafwAP7zuxe2iI6/OqWGYLJRM2ejA7dVxuXHWAphxgcBQUkEQkj4Wd QP0ITVlw2xpEao/0OclYXrChLykucrIk/Al5a8EICjX0s/3Rk9jxkLHQ+oVhKEUy m0FyVsxvvX65YSr74Lfcd8oz748JcunozfnLHmWt8YPv9ZP0URX/eBZOoY3yQZs1 hy22tjzyKwuE5Ze6qQR5X6/H+t8KBA== =vZWK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 13 08:23:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA8E130DE8 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e3_HV2-mtlkW for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 232491200D7 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742F720491 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 11:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 3DF984B4; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 11:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B4E44F for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 11:23:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Core In-Reply-To: References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:23:30 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Andy Bierman wrote: > - the module and SID assignments are not stable at all and MAY change > at any time in the future any individual submission would be in this by default. > - the module and SID assignments are from an Implementation Draft and > SHOULD remain the same in future revisions any WG adopted draft should be in this category. > - the module and SID assignments are from an RFC and MUST remain the > same in future revisions Speaks for itself. The questions is where are the SIDs allocated for the three different categories? Does it matter? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluagO4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUgWQf+PUJvqfeXuxu5u8cEnfbmsqsbHwT7ieiWHg3f/MdXr0aH/njzXXdluNo6 ggHMJ7mKYaRzZQmDt+pDvHMQfAPxrEBmQwRVA7g9I9Xg6crm0n0vPqVA1kW86MZB LXN79e5y+TXc+TZ4/E1WNl6w6JKVoN0C1swunAf/hHlH5vKUZxBJoFsGaRDj0Q+b wlDxor6bCGkmHCzXBvm52DKLW+Sjc8EAfJbUTsDhj+wzQCT+NgRKqCSdgHx11lXG c2BfLzRnssHYVF+xlKex3UyyWiUmxwwdCKASWHwf4YYbIxTQNh01XLK95dAJWMGm qg5umZ+ik+fRWn1sORM/X2czuRi4ZA== =QiUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 13 08:24:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB379130DE8; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:24:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ftOW1fK2jEb3; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBDF21200D7; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8DFOYkk022834; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:24:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0215.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0215.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42B2WP6CrczDWQX; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:24:33 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20180913075824.vd5ecwvd5wg5t4fv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:24:32 +0200 Cc: yot@ietf.org, Core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558545071.227252-4efee198e3b7e6f800b33aa16c72409b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6819C762-57E5-44A7-9A51-D5CBF8416B48@tzi.org> References: <29651.1536700610@localhost> <20180913.092534.2221140746488750178.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180913075824.vd5ecwvd5wg5t4fv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Yot] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification (fwd) Michael Richardson: [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:24:39 -0000 On Sep 13, 2018, at 09:58, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > The sids are machine generated, no? If so, why can't we make IANA > maintain the sids? The machine generation is eady for modules that don=E2=80=99t have a SID = history. Always generating SIDs at IANA would mean that IANA would need to = maintain the SID history as well. As I mentioned when discussion draft evolution, that may be finer = grained than what IANA cares about. So how do we feed the history to IANA? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Sep 13 08:26:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92349130DE8 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6GKv371MkJv4 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A389130E0A for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8DFQ5Bx023732; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:26:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0215.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0215.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42B2Y94CTwzDWQZ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:26:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9031.1536852207@localhost> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:26:05 +0200 Cc: Core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558545163.268084-3d3d517aa61f3683c25c95e0cefb8d8b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5BD28589-499B-4CB9-B4BA-215DE981D116@tzi.org> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> <9031.1536852207@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:26:12 -0000 On Sep 13, 2018, at 17:23, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >> - the module and SID assignments are from an Implementation Draft and >> SHOULD remain the same in future revisions >=20 > any WG adopted draft should be in this category. We could do this. Other WGs have benefitted from not calling every single I-D revision an = implementation draft. So we wouldn=E2=80=99t have to maintain short-lived mistakes during = evolution of the WG document. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Sep 13 08:46:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8107130E28 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cawWiMllUnL3 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 878C0130E29 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id q13-v6so5249223lfc.2 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rmWT0dhfvxX6Cbje4V8KzTsHcHKlBAQIvW5I+oTM58o=; b=qBvWKgBWj167Crp5duIsrOR5e9MckFPvqOVBpZtQnOuxVdcspV6lXjMHQzR8e4gdf3 dKY0qX744Qfl5elzbbUP82Azj1GZVBR71XyDgnLJfB68SWdke3mybcOJBkJUj0kC+oeH pDZ8BB8WQqchcCGg1/FZaQHvojI31UCI9ZUZc8g5HObxDAWOH2Zb2uezOqqg2ZuMdes4 GeB/9NqIeyacdJXEKEHK1JHZfP35MyC65zUSEMnDXC/83hGGt8cqd51NAHm59D/F2P5G bfdRvcvt9S4TXdnpDk9tXZaBPpvGzxq3PCQwqXfnSEf6o1b7g1+MIxiDReES8lOnRsz9 SDGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rmWT0dhfvxX6Cbje4V8KzTsHcHKlBAQIvW5I+oTM58o=; b=pBTylyV6IgigLRD26bkiCRB8oylecYtlVgk0xdPbgqCJXn2WrepE2gVzj++OM2cXFd ku7+EEaVSv6RvK5FS5mCITUMjO2sPPfIRf2rhxeA9RWnmgJVDSppp1iSAJckfaAVgZB2 wa/JvP+5AxRzVU6frWVPFtCDzfZUi8Qn/lgG5XwRq0VNNeMN/euO+uRmj4Z1xd2KBipG HQdCrdFUl8h4o9HYqNaQaQKhThGQpi3fxN3ju5viWbVypluPd+oPTw+hpremKdkR9IOD QGliZxUT60aHF2COWi5Bj0jerJK31tkgC8AcqQJW8rzG8ogTJQH05V0P7eKnIH3X40Qm O3PA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BrRgiBSmaZEqMVKhXdWYtBfVRKod+oTdVWgEOuSZVi5k8jq7N6 8c0CnoR3JZ6msGGOOE50pj25+OZf+FoDhn9RJxDv7vBA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYF67vZ+1JnA3t/Fpny/XWod1+zrCsOS4CyM9OzgMvzYaxQFxzi7GGw3CMNUFfITSLJ/TmGntULS5sXD31QiyM= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4c41:: with SMTP id z62-v6mr5246355lfa.127.1536853610568; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:48c9:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7766.1536851909@localhost> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> <7766.1536851909@localhost> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Core Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087b8640575c29dea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:46:55 -0000 --00000000000087b8640575c29dea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > {removed anima from CC list} > > Carsten Bormann wrote: > > What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an idea of how t= o > > evolve a draft in a way that minimizes damage from changing those > > numbers during the development of that draft. So we need to start > > allocating and managing SID numbers early in their lifetime, at lea= st > > from the point of time when a draft is becoming an =E2=80=9Cimpleme= ntation > > draft=E2=80=9D (as opposed to just an idea that wants to be discuss= ed). That > > Agreed. > I think that we will typically be need about ~100 per draft, sometimes as > many as 1000, but never 10,000. 100 is a very small number compared to t= he > size of the SID space. > > I think that the early allocation process will work fine, once we have a > registry to allocate against. The comi.space mechanism is even lighter > weight. > > > =E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts as Impleme= ntation > > Drafts. Basically, any SIDs allocated before that are without > > protection, but once we have an Implementation Draft, the SIDs used > in > > that will not be re-used. (Intermediate versions between > > Implementation Drafts would again have any new SIDs in unprotected > > state until another Implementation Draft is declared.) > > I think that we used to call these "Proposed standards" :-) > I'm not sure we need to have this designation. I think that SID numbers > are > cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume some and then get > abandonned. The numbers could be recycled 6 months after the draft > expires. > > IMO you had it right up to the last sentence. There are not port numbers. There are 2^^64 of them. Recycling SID numbers would be a recipe for disaster. The "experimental" SID space is especially problematic in this regard. Within a deployment there will be server code from all different dates, so being able to declare the SID space clean at 1 single point in time is not good enough. For "textual YANG" this is not a problem because there is very low probability that module names or module namespace URIs will collide. > > =E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the document (draft= , RFC). > > This is not beautiful, but unless we invent another representation > for > > that information, that is the interchangeable form. (If we do inve= nt > > another representation, maybe we should always use that?) > > I suggest it be included as an appendix. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > Andy --00000000000087b8640575c29dea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:

{removed anima from CC list}

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wr= ote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > What Andy pointed out is that we also need to have an id= ea of how to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > evolve a draft in a way that minimizes damage from chang= ing those
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > numbers during the development of that draft.=C2=A0 So w= e need to start
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > allocating and managing SID numbers early in their lifet= ime, at least
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > from the point of time when a draft is becoming an =E2= =80=9Cimplementation
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > draft=E2=80=9D (as opposed to just an idea that wants to= be discussed).=C2=A0 That

Agreed.
I think that we will typically be need about ~100 per draft, sometimes as many as 1000, but never 10,000.=C2=A0 100 is a very small number compared t= o the
size of the SID space.

I think that the early allocation process will work fine, once we have a registry to allocate against.=C2=A0 The comi.space mechanism is even lighte= r
weight.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =E2=80=94 have a more explicit way of designating drafts= as Implementation
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Drafts.=C2=A0 Basically, any SIDs allocated before that = are without
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > protection, but once we have an Implementation Draft, th= e SIDs used in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > that will not be re-used.=C2=A0 (Intermediate versions b= etween
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Implementation Drafts would again have any new SIDs in u= nprotected
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > state until another Implementation Draft is declared.)
I think that we used to call these "Proposed standards" :-)
I'm not sure we need to have this designation.=C2=A0 I think that SID n= umbers are
cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume some and then get abandonned.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The numbers could be recycled 6 months after the dr= aft expires.



IMO you had it right up= to the last sentence.
There are not port numbers. There are 2^^6= 4 of them.
Recycling SID numbers would be a recipe for disaster.<= /div>
The "experimental" SID space is especially problematic = in this regard.
Within a deployment there will be server code fro= m all different dates,
so being able to declare the SID space cle= an at 1 single point in time is not good enough.

F= or "textual YANG" this is not a problem because there is very low= probability
that module names or module namespace URIs will coll= ide.


=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =E2=80=94 have a way to include the SID file in the docu= ment (draft, RFC).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > This is not beautiful, but unless we invent another repr= esentation for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > that information, that is the interchangeable form.=C2= =A0 (If we do invent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > another representation, maybe we should always use that?= )

I suggest it be included as an appendix.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@= sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
=C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




Andy

--00000000000087b8640575c29dea-- From nobody Thu Sep 13 13:50:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22B212872C for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:50:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6nQBOdP58ejH for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2809C130E7C for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D240920499; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id C9D998F1; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56128B2; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Andy Bierman cc: Core In-Reply-To: References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> <7766.1536851909@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:50:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Andy Bierman wrote: > I think that we used to call these "Proposed standards" :-) > I'm not sure we need to have this designation. I think that SID > numbers are > cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume some and then > get > abandonned. The numbers could be recycled 6 months after the draft > expires. > IMO you had it right up to the last sentence. > There are not port numbers. There are 2^^64 of them. Agreed. So when recycled, they go to the end of the 2^^64 list :-) > The "experimental" SID space is especially problematic in this regard. > Within a deployment there will be server code from all different > dates, > so being able to declare the SID space clean at 1 single point in time > is not good enough. Stuff in the experimental SID space is a problem. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluazYUACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUIrAf8D0vXLsxKr9dN4XduMEEHs+MFVa6h+8uPZ5ToGrHFaCw+hv+iTMeQGLSu OpHguiHhR/NEAO/Ov1ngfNXrz0M3C1tUoS26NvD0v8cch978oUR+XjYmUGgh+L5E PZsbdntIXQgpsLJkgnRYmm5GfUlRg30qLXnpg2WJS0wrCZmcHgsWuQOhAF0ob/fd SVJ8Lhz9FUyjJqNSAQnz76B3UG5GdF7lW2IX1IP8hjTNjC71yVpJeAcHuwXidr3x LKCVDcysKE5qRWRZMX3kyh4ynV1wLKom3EEYbhodHUtzm4HfzQ23ZbwNGRCxImlz SYz6Y9C2210+AorlX43P75Pl6jMr8w== =NWxr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 13 15:32:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B189130E79 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XVL8t2ZCAH-1 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91D1C130E78 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id u83-v6so5923538lje.12 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IJ1us6GpLsDiUmInnKzAhZa+19fVo2ToG47rDb096Ho=; b=B/z5ohP6Z/4Svjm3cxeNr4z5rkCiD/ef39a0R1UCLYXLFtk+p5dVLSf0tE05//upPM hFIzY+up+QqXCfQlGEBtawWzmweQZme9njTUO5F3jNLFjhoL33Y9Fs5xpsdDaNT1x0z/ vp1ubwq7/FwghVcWd8JCL911/HNyGmcxC9VEWvuEgj4qrgfuP0Hm2FmBYBox4AqPRQAy WoJdpi7X2gt1Tu5lM3X0XNrCvj9drmVupzapP+4c0aPadv+TsIQFAGfwaYu9PggHoYC+ Gku3+vketuS8SbUXIsVVjjy1zhMPPhX7ILcgHsUhbX7ss/lHI+D/RU8NUx+vtmRTmlcJ 4Pvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IJ1us6GpLsDiUmInnKzAhZa+19fVo2ToG47rDb096Ho=; b=pYiR2wsB/+vs0TrQ6xted8bD8pBoQ1r4GkF7KY/3Y7p/pWdJb8JETjR+4q1tcT6Ewo 6FC0oEZ1ttTyOSLp2LHsU9KnYvOGHGcqSt2DMnjyFvp+FzYX0840aw+5vQKPF2Wd+d7e YymQwxxRwPeyk2/l6iYPmyiyQIAcEA6/tzP69YmJx2mwdR3BLlM1ukkGQBRZos/a+xoO ijJbRz2S2jQUk3lHqqjUXyBtbjKRASV8i5Llh6frkKFxixvuy6PYN5EPIjFe5PvT/jxH qQo30wcbxUCPbqvIZegiROZfAVmbzmkM3bDMuQujSZts0zSCFsPdIHtXfwA3jUy6VZWi 0+6A== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DwFi0XKsSZsqqI07svRHY441KAmkVX+wbtkwqmA5AmjqanY8Rg jWK12RtWQdjttk3/RiaVpPKHiveODoYWBmpp+kIqNAYE X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZVwlQtXu3twLh7eJ2RqoUOq/NN7ERQjK9/bUCA4hxvWkD3e2UfL05otaqhU9CM6w3YjRt9xdfal/UpxGpMu8k= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:97c8:: with SMTP id m8-v6mr3522548ljj.52.1536877945485; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:48c9:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25103.1536871813@localhost> References: <17342.1536697549@localhost> <622CDA79-7BE4-4A71-BFF7-0C80F63A1556@tzi.org> <50f58c78b6825ce1cdbc33ea852c3145@bbhmail.nl> <84F58F84-4637-4D65-8F86-8E86B346528F@tzi.org> <7766.1536851909@localhost> <25103.1536871813@localhost> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:32:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: Core Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000010cee0575c84828" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [Anima] documenting SID usage in IETF specification X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 22:32:29 -0000 --000000000000010cee0575c84828 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > I think that we used to call these "Proposed standards" :-) > > I'm not sure we need to have this designation. I think that SID > > numbers are > > cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume some and then > > get > > abandonned. The numbers could be recycled 6 months after the draft > > expires. > > > IMO you had it right up to the last sentence. > > There are not port numbers. There are 2^^64 of them. > > Agreed. So when recycled, they go to the end of the 2^^64 list :-) > > > The "experimental" SID space is especially problematic in this > regard. > > Within a deployment there will be server code from all different > > dates, > > so being able to declare the SID space clean at 1 single point in > time > > is not good enough. > > Stuff in the experimental SID space is a problem. > > Yes -- it is the wrong way of looking at it. There is really only "global" and "local" SIDs. IMO it is better to reserve a range where it is clear there are no expectations that the SID assignments are real. (Imagine if we told everybody to name their YANG module my-module.yang -- these experimental SIDs are like that) There will be modules that do not get registered (for various reasons), or that simply get used/tested before they are registered. Andy > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > --000000000000010cee0575c84828 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I think that we used to call these "Proposed standa= rds" :-)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I'm not sure we need to have this designation. I thi= nk that SID
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > numbers are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > cheap enough that it's okay if some drafts consume s= ome and then
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > get
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > abandonned. The numbers could be recycled 6 months after= the draft
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > expires.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > IMO you had it right up to the last sentence.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > There are not port numbers. There are 2^^64 of them.

Agreed.=C2=A0 So when recycled, they go to the end of the 2^^64 list :-)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > The "experimental" SID space is especially pro= blematic in this regard.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Within a deployment there will be server code from all d= ifferent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > dates,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > so being able to declare the SID space clean at 1 single= point in time
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > is not good enough.

Stuff in the experimental SID space is a problem.



--000000000000010cee0575c84828-- From nobody Fri Sep 14 11:59:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B485130E44; Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:59:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <153695158411.17479.7569832171066729916@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:59:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 18:59:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CBOR Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG Authors : Michel Veillette Alexander Pelov Abhinav Somaraju Randy Turner Ana Minaburo Filename : draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2018-09-14 Abstract: This document defines encoding rules for serializing configuration data, state data, RPC input and RPC output, Action input, Action output and notifications defined within YANG modules using the Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) [RFC7049]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Sep 16 05:13:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38DC130DC9; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 05:13:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: alexey.melnikov@isode.com, core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153709998387.17068.4865193014315627363.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 05:13:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] core - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:13:04 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Alexey Melnikov, a ART Area Director. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Constrained RESTful Environments Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Alexey Melnikov Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours, 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: cbor httpbis artarea t2trg suit ace lpwan 6lo roll teep Second Priority: dnssd saag irtfopen 6tisch netconf netmod sacm emu jmap extra cfrg Third Priority: lwig detnet quic v6ops opsarea icnrg People who must be present: Carsten Bormann Alexey Melnikov Jaime Jimenez Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please also avoid any potentially IoT related BOFs that might come up (atick, amp). Prefer some time between the two meetings (48 h or more). --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Sep 16 11:56:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D8F130DCE for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GFXG4odGZJuL for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D65A8130DC4 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id f8-v6so11323891ljk.1 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5JBAOSbWz5g47HqvJT1uOM/iuaAUhXJh3vPkDBGwlFo=; b=X6Ye4KnusG7jdg2NKvC+MGcI7aOY2lTkZVJ0g9HUb9Ts11JiT+Ee9f5LKnV2wE+yID awy61GYljYKomiSHB2F4cZpBfVqrQTxpeqI7xu9fewOw0KJCD+5vSx39XP/c5+d0AeHr bRegdytPguR/9RezNIyr5U+/r91z8laF6NyBrxb9PJwnGwmC+CgwboaxRvqddbkt1Om+ pI/58uBacrTlk0nPv6GOthaPLPlrtNW88tA9P/38rEV4YxxokVEeuG4DatWZPXbVor/D BEr7576x69TYWyBgOv/A8h8z3fczpl2RlBxpTXepyxwinaw0oVU6TF6frHiG37Hh9GAR emBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5JBAOSbWz5g47HqvJT1uOM/iuaAUhXJh3vPkDBGwlFo=; b=OifT46UR00Qn2UsmV441UJ196yRUDkqA3eN5Mztv6tkiy0VA0c+5KRIg3XJEdsNgvA 6k4OmIHZlH/PAmL9v+3Smh+KGqO6iscgUnz8nzQu0VuJ+OceaXWI0G8wGhbefSI59Ldy scgAFsL9eONO45YYsMRgqaQrvKJuchaIVeweu4quo9ojCGGzmCEAQfQvwDhvVUw4XA2V onLuw8/rNnV52kWQIHVt3KmymC/B0IcE9wW+wAXvXxmZuceYl7OYUkqYS+oMleW7d384 sSSw0HTK3+ywr5G8VTmcAtGRChew/fjiy1ePwtCpWK9h9AFVECtBj03RYZTiCey0xtH7 suGw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51AsnbWt8qkIZmMj907QTdgzOv62lGy8RG9JSAOfBEFznqxnrVz/ bSfVXkt8ZB7iUq/n+yBfsiMZ1NPyRmNs67YfC2W5nSDf0sY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaKK2lsMy6MPsZ4em1oSeWiqiBc2YPzsbtZsBQFF+rjvLarc3noB9h8wGWWW4wrad14gScqvwXJt8Y/wkRoIi8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5687:: with SMTP id k7-v6mr12458132lje.105.1537124172510; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:6a19:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Bierman Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:56:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Core Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004747810576019cad" Archived-At: Subject: [core] comments on draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-07.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:56:17 -0000 --0000000000004747810576019cad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I have a few comments on the YANG to CBOR draft. In general it is very close to being complete. 1) RFC 7951 references The following terms are defined in [RFC7951]: o member name o name of an identity Actually, RFC 7951 does not define these terms. It says RFC 5234 defines the member-name syntax,. IMO, this term should really be linked an 'identifier' as defined in RFC 7950. Each datadef-stmt has its own specific definition, e.g. container: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5 The mapping should be defined directly from YANG to CBOR, as the draft name suggests. 2) sec 4.5 anydata The text should mention that SID encoding is not possible since child nodes of an anydata do not exist in the schema. The example seems to be wrong. It does not have the member-names port-name and port-fault in the notation. 3) sec. 4.6 anyxml The actual usage of anyxml is really as a container, same as anydata, so the example is confusing. This should be encoded the same as anydata if possible. Not sure why the 2nd sentence is there: sec 4.6, para 1: An anyxml schema node is used to serialize an arbitrary CBOR content, i.e., its value can be any CBOR binary object. anyxml value MAY contain CBOR data items tagged with one of the tag listed in Section 8.1, these tags shall be supported. If this is a binary object then how can it have nested data nodes with data types? I suggest that anyxml can be treated as anydata if it does not contain any mixed-mode content or processing instructions. NEW: An anyxml schema node is used to serialize an arbitrary CBOR content, i.e., its value can be any CBOR binary object. If the anyxml instance data contains only YANG data nodes, then it MAY be encoded the same as an anydata object. Andy --0000000000004747810576019cad Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I have a few comments on the YANG to CBOR = draft.
In general it is very close to being complete.
<= br>

1) RFC 7951 references

   The following terms are defined in [RFC7951]:

   o  member name

   o  name of an identity
Actually, RFC 7951 does not define these terms. It says RFC 5234 = defines the member-name
syntax,. IMO, this term should really be = linked an 'identifier' as defined in RFC 7950.
Each datad= ef-stmt has its own specific definition, e.g. container:

The mapping shou= ld be defined directly from YANG to CBOR, as the draft name suggests.
=

2) sec 4.5 anydata

The text sh= ould mention that SID encoding is not possible since child nodes
= of an anydata do not exist in the schema.

The exam= ple seems to be wrong. It does not have the member-names
port-nam= e and port-fault in the notation.

3) sec. 4.6 anyx= ml

The actual usage of anyxml is really as a conta= iner, same as anydata,
so the example is confusing. This should b= e encoded the same as anydata
if possible.

Not sure why the 2nd sentence is there:

sec 4.6= , para 1:
   An anyxml schema node is used to serialize an arbitra=
ry CBOR content,
   i.e., its value can be any CBOR binary object. anyxml value MAY
   contain CBOR data items tagged with one of the tag listed in
   Section 8.1, these tags shall be supported.
If this is a binary obj= ect then how can it have nested data nodes with data types?
I sug= gest that anyxml can be treated as anydata if it does not contain any
=
mixed-mode content or processing instructions.

NEW:

   An anyxml schema node is used to serializ=
e an arbitrary CBOR content,
   i.e., its value can be any CBOR binary object.=C2=A0If the anyxml instan=
ce
   data contains only YANG data nodes, then it MAY be=C2=A0encoded the same
   as an anydata object.


Andy=


--0000000000004747810576019cad-- From nobody Mon Sep 17 02:06:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4ED7130DC0 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:06:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oUgJVsii8-xU for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0376F1277D2 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:05:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8H95txi003941 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.149] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42DKwg3m5nzDX7B; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D5E66156-8120-482A-A877-F40B292AE5F2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann X-Priority: 3 X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:05:54 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558867954.6563931-56f6aac3153961ed8ad2e1686a9de71d Message-Id: <4A1E207C-A3A3-4F71-B7B8-0A4FAA42DDDC@tzi.org> References: <1141091830.638.1537174962058.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc208.webex.com> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Webex meeting invitation: Virtual Interim 2018-09-26 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 09:06:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D5E66156-8120-482A-A877-F40B292AE5F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Here is the meeting invitation for the next virtual interim, 2018-09-26 = 1500Z (08:00 PDT, 17:00 CEST, 23:00 China). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > Hello, > CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting. > =20 > Virtual Interim > Wednesday, September 26, 2018 > 3:00 pm | Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, GMT) | 1 hr > Meeting number (access code): 643 303 053 > Meeting password: constrained >=20 >=20 > =20 > Add to Calendar = =09 > When it's time, join the meeting = . > =20 > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada) > =20 > Can't join the meeting? = > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_D5E66156-8120-482A-A877-F40B292AE5F2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F7DA0278-A4E3-4A80-81DB-D92D86750881" --Apple-Mail=_F7DA0278-A4E3-4A80-81DB-D92D86750881 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Here is the meeting invitation for the next virtual interim, = 2018-09-26 1500Z (08:00 PDT, 17:00 CEST, 23:00 China).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten


CORE Working Group invites you to join this Webex = meeting.
Hello,
 
Virtual Interim
Wednesday, September 26, 2018
3:00 pm  |  Greenwich Time (Reykjavik, = GMT)  |  1 hr
Meeting number (access code): 643 303 = 053
Meeting password: constrained


 
Add to = Calendar
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Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)
 
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this Webex service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the = session.
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--Apple-Mail=_F7DA0278-A4E3-4A80-81DB-D92D86750881-- --Apple-Mail=_D5E66156-8120-482A-A877-F40B292AE5F2-- From nobody Mon Sep 17 02:13:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4711130DC0 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3JABWJxNgnzn for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30B04130DCC for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:13:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8H9DI8J010636 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:13:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.149] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42DL596rKczDX7L; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:13:17 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:13:17 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558868397.268894-c3835d0f550cb26543d6336e566e8ee5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <69826E8F-ABAF-485B-A1A0-EB1843A7104E@tzi.org> References: <9B5EC459-15BC-45F0-BC6B-0F4C4994AB15@tzi.org> To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Upcoming virtual interim meetings (Re: CoRE@IETF102: Summary) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 09:13:29 -0000 For the next two interims, we have the following agenda items right now: 2018-09-26 (Jaime is chairing) =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-pubsub; compare with = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-data-hub-01, as well as = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-t2trg-stp-01 (for queueing = messages) Objective: bring pubsub forward towards readiness for WGLC 2018-10-10 (both chairs present) - Objectives: readying drafts for pre-Bangkok WGLCs, specifically: =E2=80=94 echo/request-tag =E2=80=94 discuss the reviews (we hope to = have by then) =E2=80=94 multipart-ct: ready to go? - stateless =E2=80=94 check CORECONF status, Objective: ready remaining documents = for WGLC - RD interop report (if it already happened) or announcement (if it = didn=E2=80=99t) Please send in additional topics (remember that we have only one hour = per call, though). If you do want to lead a slot, please holler now and send in slides by = Monday before the meeting. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Sep 17 23:28:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9531130EE1 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id alS-IlT82QhT for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0298A130ECC for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:28:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w8I6SgXb014829 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:28:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.149] (p54A6C3C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.195.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42DtNp5cpBzDXJC; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:28:42 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:28:41 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 558944921.475812-a5e04ffe3a70044031d9e1bfae3d7287 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8941EBEB-5190-4AE9-B059-93686A8A9C7F@tzi.org> References: To: Core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_adoption_of_draft-boucadair-cor?= =?utf-8?q?e-hop-limit?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 06:28:49 -0000 While there have not been many postings to the list supporting this, at = the interims we also had good oral support, and there was no negative = feedback. So we have consensus to adopt. Authors: please re-submit as draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-00. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On 10. Sep 2018, at 21:54, carsten bormann wrote: >=20 > It seems we have converged at draft-boucadair-core-hop-limit as the = draft providing the hop limit function needed by DOTS, but we haven=E2=80=99= t done the formal WG adoption yet. >=20 > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place). > Please do mention any issues that you already know; these also can be = brought up in Wednesday=E2=80=99s virtual interim Webex call. >=20 > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of September 17th. > (Given the state of the discussion, we might then have a Working Group = last call of an updated document right next.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Sep 17 23:44:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8728D130E98; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:44:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <153725307050.24615.5041867892219173999@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:44:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-00.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 06:44:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Hop Limit Option Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Jon Shallow Filename : draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-09-17 Abstract: The presence of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) proxies may lead to infinite forwarding loops, which is undesirable. To prevent and detect such loops, this document specifies the Hop-Limit CoAP option. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-hop-limit/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 17 23:49:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E68E130EE2 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:49:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QjyaEhVForT for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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RULES_HIT:2:4:41:72:152:355:379:582:602:800:871:962:967:968:973:982:983:988:989:1000:1152:1189:1208:1212:1260:1263:1313:1314:1345:1359:1381:1431:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1605:1617:1730:1764:1776:1792:2068:2069:2198:2199:2525:2528:2553:2561:2566:2682:2685:2692:2829:2859:2894:2903:2911:2915:2918:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3586:3622:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3873:3874:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4050:4250:4321:4362:4425:4557:4641:4659:4860:5007:6117:6119:6261:6298:6506:6659:6678:6747:6748:7281:7464:7802:7875:7903:7904:7909:8557:8568:8603:8784:8985:9010:9015:9025:9177:9388:10004:10848:11232:11604:11658:11914:12043:12291:12295:12379:12438:12555:12679:12683:12895:12986:13139:13141:13144:13161:13181:13190:13199:13215:13229:13230:13439:13846:14094:14096:21060:21080:21433:21450:21451:21625:21691:21740:21809:30034:30048:30054:30060:3 X-HE-Tag: bee46_5333ea5e5ee31 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 16355 Received: from mail.bbhmail.nl (imap-ext [216.40.42.5]) (Authenticated sender: webmail@stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf12.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:02:51 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_10289174853389145c72c2fd1d3f67b9" Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:02:51 +0200 From: Peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <866876ae4798de793536ea7f13396df2@bbhmail.nl> References: <866876ae4798de793536ea7f13396df2@bbhmail.nl> Message-ID: <0029fdca1c78326bc10e5332ed55b99c@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.7 X-Originating-IP: [90.0.6.116] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: [Ace] review oscore-groupcomm-2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:02:57 -0000 --=_10289174853389145c72c2fd1d3f67b9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_b147bef7e70fe55fb338ddf2290987b7" --=_b147bef7e70fe55fb338ddf2290987b7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi authors, Thanks for this useful document. I have no comments on sections 3 and 4 that read rather easily. Some comments on the other sections follow below: Section 1.1 Introduce group request (GR)-message and response message in relation to GR-client and GR-server to clarify text in section 2. To be used consistently throughout the text. End page 3. The phrase on the use of DTLS seems a bit far-fetched; Do you mean that multiple DTLS sessions are started for each group request sent by a client? Group ID: s/a same Group Manager/a given Group Manager/ End section 1.1; remove: "by a different group member or by a non-group-member" This only excludes itself. Section 2 Where does the endpoint store all these contexts? I assume local storage is used. Text substitution suggestions: s/Each endpoint in the group stores:/Each endpoint in a group makes use of:/ s/endpoints in the group/endpoints in a given group/ s/The ID Context parameter stores the group ID/The ID Context parameter contains the group ID/ The Sender context description is confusing. I understood that both a client when sending a group request, and a receiver when sending a response message use the sender context for sending the message. The text seems to suggest that only a group request need a sender context and not the response message. If the Sender context applies only to group request messages, the term request context is more appropriate and distinguishes from the sender context in OSCORE Same confusion about the recipient context; the text seems to exclude that a group request client also needs a recipient context. Table 1: why "each" Recipient context and not "each" sender context? Public key of the associated other endpoint: is this the group request client endpoint or any endpoint sending to this recipient? Section 2.1: should the section not refer to oscoap-joining draft in ACE? Section 3 'kid' parameter value; Does this only apply to response messages sent by group request servers? Section 5; I don't think that I understand the problem. One of the conditions is that a client which is not part of a group cannot decrypt the group messages, and a client that has left the group cannot decrypt the group messages either. That constitutes already a pretty firm synchronization. My assumption was that this would be effectuated by distributing new master secret every time the group changes. In Appendix C, you suggest the epoch in the GID (Chaging the epoch, the GID may remain constant over group changes). My recommendation is to make the epoch compulsory for synchronization purposes. During membership of a group, a GR-client can consecutively number its messages starting at zero every time a new epoch is started (with a new master secret as specified in section 2.1). See also remark on A.2. Section 6, what is the relation of section 6 with with oscoap-joining. Is oscoap-joining required to validate all the requirements of section 6? Methods to handle loss of synchronization are not responsibility of GM but responsibility of the sender of group request messages. No total ordering on all messages is required, only partial ordering on the messages of a given sender. I assume that the ordering of epochs is done by GM. Trusted key repository: Also when the group manager makes use of an additional secure storage device, it remains responsible for the key repository. Acting as a network router is out of scope IMO. RFCs exist to create and route group messages and it is immaterial which devices host the routing agents. This is also a subject of appendix D; same remark applies there as well. Autonomously and locally enforcing… ; what is the difference with bullet 2 of section 6? 7.1 I don't understand the remark that all group members are trusted. What does that mean? IMU, They have been authorized to join a group and are trusted per definition. 7.2 Case A and Case B refer to cases in OSCORE draft? 7.3 Does it not need an explanation how one sender belonging to two groups with the same GID can be distinguished by a receiver that is member of these two groups as well? The text at the end of appendix C is not very convincing. A.1 bullet 2; remove: "e.g. by grouping lights….." (it is unknown how large groups in one room can be, leave alone a floor) A.1 Establishments an management of security contexts: I hope that a general key management scheme is not necessary to provide the GM with a protocol to distribute new master secrets for the next group epoch. A.2 Source Authentication, s/ensure/verify/ Message Integrity, s/ensure/verify/ Message ordering: Messages should be given a sequence number by the sender, a new coap option could be defined. Total ordering of the messages in a Group is not required. Appendix C: Could this text (or a variant) not become normative text to provide simple source ordering. Appendix D: first three paragraphs double with Appendix A, just differently formulated. Suggest to remove or better review separation with appendix A. See router comment of section 6. Appendix D.1 is very informative but provides many choices. Oscoap join should specify the choices. According to me much of the text of Appendix D.1 should go to oscoap-join to motivate the choices made for oscoap join. Appendix D.2. My suggestion is to make the GM the key repository, or connect a key repository to it, that needs to be accessed through the GM. Appendix D3. Should this not be normative text in oscoap-join? Appendix E. A relation between message freshness and message ordering is suggested that I do not understand. When a sender sends only one message ever, the ordering is assured, but freshness is not guaranteed on reception. Suppose only ordering is guaranteed with sequence numbers in the message; Losing messages can be detected. A procedure to receive lost messages is indeed necessary. But this involves storage of messages at the sender (how many?), and possibly re-encrypting to guarantee freshness when they are repeated on loss detection. Hope this helps. Greetings, peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org, stokcons@bbhmail.nl www: www.vanderstok.org [1] tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 _______________________________________________ Ace mailing list Ace@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace Links: ------ [1] http://www.vanderstok.org --=_b147bef7e70fe55fb338ddf2290987b7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Hi aut= hors,

Thanks for this useful document.

I have no comments on sections 3 and 4 that read rather easily.

Some comments on the other sections follow below:

Section 1.1

Introduce group request (GR)-message and response message in relation to= GR-client and GR-server to clarify text in section 2. To be used consisten= tly throughout the text.

End page 3. The phrase on the use of DTLS seems a bit far-fetched; Do yo= u mean that multiple DTLS sessions are started for each group request sent = by a client?

Group ID: s/a same Group Manager/a given Group Manager/

End section 1.1; remove: “by a different group member or by a non-= group-member” This only excludes itself.

Section 2

Where does the endpoint store all these contexts? I assume local storage= is used.

Text substitution suggestions:

s/Each endpoint in the group stores:/Each endpoint in a group makes use = of:/

s/endpoints in the group/endpoints in a given group/

s/The ID Context parameter stores the group ID/The ID Context parameter = contains the group ID/

The Sender context description is confusing. I understood that both a cl= ient when sending a group request, and a receiver when sending a response m= essage use the sender context for sending the message. The text seems to su= ggest that only a group request need a sender context and not the response = message.

If the Sender context applies only to group request messages, the term r= equest context is more appropriate and distinguishes from the sender contex= t in OSCORE

Same confusion about the recipient context; the text seems to exclude th= at a group request client also needs a recipient context.

Table 1:  why “each” Recipient context and not “e= ach” sender context?

Public key of the associated other endpoint: is this the group request c= lient endpoint or any endpoint sending to this recipient?

Section 2.1:  should the section not refer to oscoap-joining draft = in ACE?

Section 3 ‘kid’ parameter value; Does this only apply to res= ponse messages sent by group request servers?

Section 5; I don’t think that I understand the problem. One of the= conditions is that a client which is not part of a group cannot decrypt th= e group messages, and a client that has left the group cannot decrypt the g= roup messages either. That constitutes already a pretty firm synchronizatio= n. My assumption was that this would be effectuated by distributing new mas= ter secret every time the group changes. In Appendix C, you suggest the epo= ch in the GID (Chaging the epoch, the GID may remain constant over group ch= anges). My recommendation is to make the epoch compulsory for synchronizati= on purposes.

During membership of a group, a GR-client can consecutively number its m= essages starting at zero every time a new epoch is started (with a new mast= er secret as specified in section 2.1). See also remark on A.2.

Section 6,

what is the relation of section 6 with with oscoap-joining. Is oscoap-jo= ining required to validate all the requirements of section 6?

Methods to handle loss of synchronization are not responsibility of GM b= ut responsibility of the sender of group request messages. No total orderin= g on all messages is required, only partial ordering on the messages of a g= iven sender. I assume that the ordering of epochs is done by GM.

Trusted key repository: Also when the group manager makes use of an addi= tional secure storage device, it remains responsible for the key repository= =2E

Acting as a network router is out of scope IMO. RFCs exist to create and= route group messages and it is immaterial which devices host the routing a= gents. This is also a subject of appendix D; same remark applies there as w= ell.

Autonomously and locally enforcing… ; what is the difference with= bullet 2  of section 6?

7.1 I don’t understand the remark that all group members are trust= ed. What does that mean? IMU, They have been authorized to join a group and= are trusted per definition.

7.2 Case A and Case B refer to cases in OSCORE draft?

7.3 Does it not need an explanation how one sender belonging to two grou= ps with the same GID can be distinguished by a receiver that is member of t= hese two groups as well? The text at the end of appendix C is not very conv= incing.

A.1 bullet 2; remove: “e.g. by grouping lights…..”&nb= sp; (it is unknown how large groups in one room can be, leave alone a floor= )

A.1 Establishments an management of security contexts: I hope that a gen= eral key management scheme is not necessary to provide the GM with a protoc= ol to distribute new master secrets for the next group epoch.

A.2

Source Authentication, s/ensure/verify/

Message Integrity, s/ensure/verify/

Message ordering: Messages should be given a sequence number by the send= er, a new coap option could be defined. Total ordering of the messages in a= Group is not required.


Appendix C: Could this text (or a variant) not become normative text to = provide simple source ordering.

Appendix D: first three paragraphs double with Appendix A, just differen= tly formulated. Suggest to remove or better review separation with appendix= A.

See router comment of section 6.

Appendix D.1 is very informative but provides many choices. Oscoap join = should specify the choices. According to me much of the text of Appendix D= =2E1 should go to oscoap-join to motivate the choices made for oscoap join= =2E

Appendix D.2. My suggestion is to make the GM the key repository, or con= nect a key repository to it, that needs to be accessed through the GM.

Appendix D3. Should this not be normative text in oscoap-join?

Appendix E. A relation between message freshness and message ordering is= suggested that I do not understand. When a sender sends only one message e= ver, the ordering is assured, but freshness is not guaranteed on reception= =2E

Suppose only ordering is guaranteed with sequence numbers in the message= ; Losing messages can be detected. A procedure to receive lost messages is = indeed necessary. But this involves storage of messages at the sender (how = many?), and possibly re-encrypting to guarantee freshness when they are rep= eated on loss detection.

Hope this helps.

Greetings,

peter
--
Peter van der Stok
vanderstok consultancy
mailto: consultancy@vanderstok= =2Eorg, stokc= ons@bbhmail.nl
www: www.vanderstok.org
tel NL: +31(0)4= 92474673     F: +33(0)966015248

= _______________________________________________
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<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
--=_b147bef7e70fe55fb338ddf2290987b7-- --=_10289174853389145c72c2fd1d3f67b9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Gedeelte 2.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Gedeelte 2.asc"; size=124 X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkFjZSBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QNCkFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9hY2UNCg== --=_10289174853389145c72c2fd1d3f67b9-- From nobody Thu Sep 20 10:56:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CFC130E13 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:56:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=runbox.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpkuUN-IHnbo for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aibo.runbox.com (aibo.runbox.com [91.220.196.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF086130E12 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:56:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=runbox.com; s=rbselector1; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:To:Subject:From; bh=pWGP3ejdLNBQWAKY2rriwqXs7t0Zhjw7+RdKHmMuAtg=; b=Lpsb+dc7JHNF+oULXoM7YVNVjg6R4D36IETPpx0KpQk/KDTtwsWJTAL9Lgter+F4bsTdpoQSnJ wiwFF0bGJdXOQwBvk17Q7hOGRR6LlPTVm5o7L7eNxWTlARYxsPzStlBZkRbFCG4wujiWcczuQS0T3 W1+1XEXzj+DzA3xyU4FrRGIT6yDN35NbOw3CyzzDMw6E277a+9OBePxYCUNgeoOsqZrabMroVdGU7 q8xeiovHpNEwzlJPRGX5N3eB2/AokJr/yFZK4679QJ7uMe5qI8CYFe6Id9cuIVxRppfM+i8otXJJR E2xKdbGpV/56EIcpqoFoMrFnHhkVibcwuT37g==; Received: from [10.9.9.210] (helo=mailfront10.runbox.com) by mailtransmit02.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g33BX-0002yh-V1 for core@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:56:16 +0200 Received: by mailfront10.runbox.com with esmtpsa (uid:798146 ) (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) id 1g33B1-0002Gi-LT for core@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:55:43 +0200 From: Ken Bannister To: CORE Message-ID: <91ae68c8-e59e-7b44-c841-3aac06df9e79@runbox.com> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:55:41 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [core] RFC 8323 constrained implementation X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:56:20 -0000 Is anyone aware of an embedded C (no malloc) implementation of CoAP over TCP (RFC 8323)? Thanks, Ken From nobody Wed Sep 26 09:36:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C84130EE5 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L_2ofZ9WxTLz for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA5F512958B for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 589BF41937; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:35:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7AB6C; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2361219; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 19902 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:35:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:35:52 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Michael Koster Cc: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180926163552.GA18946@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Dynlink observation attributes X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:36:00 -0000 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, as suggested in today's interim meeting, I'd like to get the discussion on observation attributes going again. To me, the takewaway point of today was that there can be various ways of expressing the observation attributes; that we're happy with what the attributes can do and their semantics, but that the current way of persistently PUT parameters on a link is not ideal for the general use case. I've left the bulk of my original mail below because I still think it gets across the message (though some may be preaching to the choir given the above), and stripped unrelated points into a separate thread: > Observation attributes > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > I'd like to refer back to one of my earlierst mails on this mailing > list at [CA2013]. The answer to "why not just observe > as it was in earlier drafts" about cac= hing > was not really satisfying, given that this scheme breaks caching just as > the original but just worse (previously, a cache would just not have a > response ready; now, it sees an observation and thinks the value is > current where it's actually from an observation to a client that's not > interested in details). >=20 > The way of PUTting empty values onto query-parameter identified > resources is incompatible with multiple observations. >=20 > Moreover, its use is unclear to me from reading it. The sentence "These > query parameters MUST be treated as resources that are read using GET > and updated using PUT" seems to indicate that they are used like this: >=20 > | GET /temp?pmin > | 2.05 Content > | Payload: "0" >=20 > (or however undefined is expressed there) >=20 > | PUT /temp?pmin > | Payload: "10" > | 2.04 Changed >=20 > But "Multiple parameters MAY be updated at the same time by including > the values in the query string of a PUT" makes it sound like it should > be >=20 > | PUT /temp?pmin=3D10&pmax=3D20 > | empty payload > | 2.04 Changed >=20 > -- are both permissible? And if only the latter: How is this accessed > with GET? Examples might help, but explicit words would be good too. >=20 > Another open question is how to turn those limits off again. Would I > just DELETE the resources?=20 >=20 > This was all a whole lot clearer when one could observer >=20 > | GET /temp?pmin=3D10&pmax=3D20 >=20 > and have those limits per observation without any new state introduced > to the server -- a behavior I would still prefer to see there. >=20 > [CA2013]: http://ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg04270.html >=20 > Observation attributes in bindings > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > There are two components in this document I percieve as relatively > separate -- the link bindings, and the limiting attributes. >=20 > Link bindings work well on their own. >=20 > With in-query observation attributes, there would not be any need to > define the attributes additionally as link attributes (where, judging > from RD discussions, it can be confusing to have both). >=20 > Especially troublesome about the attributes is that they are not target > attributes, but link attributes. (All other common attributes in > link-format documents are target attributes, with the exception of > anchor=3D and rel=3D/rev=3D which are core to the web linking model). That > means that using other web link formats (eg. CoRAL, RDF; don't know > about HSML) will have a hard time expressing those. I think that > non-target link attributes should be limited to data that is meaningful > on the web linking level and not for arbitrary attributes. One closing throught: In implementations, we're often thinking of everything that has the same path as the same resource, and query parameters just giving details on it. CoAP's REST model does not know this distinction -- /temp is something different than /temp?pmin=3D10, and only because we said ;if=3D"core.s" we can conclude that it's related to the /temp?pmin=3D10 resource. Let us stick with this, and call /temp?pmin=3D10 a view on /temp, like through a lens that blurs an image. Best regards Christian --=20 This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird. -- perldata(1) about perl variables --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlurtWUACgkQOY0REtOk veEBQQ//UfCuAm+c62gXGmV4znthtFBNX+W7y2db8Wyws84BNsY0CrTAK1ge0qgj VTNSUD0Fzm5a5MSP52l0fhQhbJKXeCxlxckkcI86Ky46uhJ5fo2pPe4JEUqmRuiZ /HlgNSsifzQBHrOCCfr4nOWguVStnP8mvE6t90Al2dabx8xz/1sx+IGOR5ZU+Msu iCT8mW4MqJrm7ffcY+GvVsYs5+P4oF1clLXcubVtgiJvRbej4P+UcAoaWzsiJmGH OsG3/uUR6hL5OcWpSak/WC051SO0Fo/W09mtN1uNc49shKpeHQ9PGkXZ4P4IAcK9 Ogi0Wa0tt4VOD+4vvHuhSH5Zt+UsjcThtyFtnQp/Yu5CcBtOn9SXkZIlE3uORPO8 vu5OBrs5uz7HSn78DBCztj8WrNzdB+mxe3vbSPLxFrgycs1A44SaJKQQzQE1ePYu 3I4b/D/aAq/EFAhQO87cXvOavRnVusbUoHRXjswsK6rbsweyqv/pd4+KfihlIQUW FE764rR/1FQdJ7qVllYBoYnRt8STkOf3pn6LNewGhuugGE9GBFoGkZnszoogJ7Jl rcwypXYRyrsT+ceyHITUYXB7r2KCtZIoPUQZ4ZZGmsbbAVH3HpMj64uM++/9Npdi 1ZxuLTQOwhetbNPve58k0/nks6hkeynsDjRzJRvmrQEFqQcx8xs= =ES0l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- From nobody Wed Sep 26 09:39:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1E8130EF3 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ve9J7G4MfW_Y for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30AB6130EE5 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46DCA41937 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:39:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFEE6C for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:39:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0900619 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:39:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 20239 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:39:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:39:15 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180926163915.GB18946@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20180721122403.GA17787@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180721122403.GA17787@hephaistos.amsuess.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] (rest of) Re: Review of dynlink X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:39:22 -0000 --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To better keep track of the discussion, here's the portions of my original review that are not taken to the new thread at [1]; unquoted for readability: ---- Hello dynlink authors, These are notes from reviewing the dynlink draft; sorry for not assembling those earlier, I hope they are still appreciated. The document I'm reading is is post-06 git version dc0bbaff1. Mandatory and exhaustive bind attribute =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I think that there are several bind methods missing: * "Observe+Push". The device executing this binding has neither source nor destination resource locally, but will observe (or for a "Poll+Push", poll) the source and PUT to the destination. This is useful when two devices are to be connected, neither of which has a binding site, but a device between them (eg. a border proxy or home access point) does. * "Native". Used for resources on the same server. Neither, or both, of observation and pushing are applicable here, but it's really up to the server whether it establishes either, short-circuits the resources in software or (in case of a gateway I worked on last year) configures the bus represented by the resources to link those. * Possibly "On-Demand" (not fully thought-through). When the destination resource is queried, the binding site issues a request to the source resource (or uses a fresh cached state maybe) and only responds when that arrives, or establishes an observation when the destination is observed. (Note that an actuator resource behaves like the hardware has an observation on the resource, but that's not the case for all resources, and the client might even allow creation of destination resources). In general, I don't think that a bind=3D attribute should be mandated. A binding site with the source local and the destination remote will know to PUT the data, and a site with the source remote will GET+Observe anyway if it can, and fall back to polling if the observation is declined. It's useful to have the methods named and discussed, but I doubt the need for them to be present in the actual transmitted data (especially as link attributes, see observation attributes) -- and what would happen to a `POST /bnd: ;anchor=3D"/a";bind=3D"push"`? Is that 4.00? That brings us to... Error behavior of binding tables =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D How would a binding site react to * unknown/-implemented schemes? * permanent or intermittent network unreachability? * all kind of error codes, especially 4.01/.03? I don't expect a full treatise of the ways a binding can go wrong in the document, but at least the issue of creating a traffic storm in response to an error, whether an error can make a binding just disappear, and whether the binding site can indicate any error state of a binding should be covered IMO. Assorted =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * boundTo is capitalized differently. * "The binding conditions are mapped as query string parameters (see Section 4)." =20 Ie. by the time the binding is established, the binding site PUTs the parameters the destination resource? Would it need to do that whenever the observation is set up, or only once? (That's probably a point that could go to to the first section too: there's no text about persistence of that state. Is it soft state? How does the client know?) * "A resource using an interface description defined in this specification and marked as Observable in its link description SHOULD support these observation parameters." The only interface description defined in this specification is core.bnd, and while it does make sense to observe a binding site for monitoring purposes, most of the observation attributes are nonsentical on a non-numerical resource. Could this be a leftover from when this was a single document with core-interfaces? * links-json will hopefully pass some time soon. Can those formats be used with dynlinks (subject to advertisement in ct=3D and content format negotiation, of course)? Summary =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Many of the issues described with links were not present in the pre-2013 way of passing observation parameters as query parameters to that observation; I recommend that that way be re-evaluated. I see much value in having the both bindings and observation thresholds, and the semantics of the threshold parameters (band etc) seem to be mature by now, but I would ask for in-depth discussion of the above points. Best regards Christian [1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/jA_zWgxgd01fvwiTIgAyZTTb5HY --=20 This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird. -- perldata(1) about perl variables --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlurtjMACgkQOY0REtOk veFl7RAAhHsjCL22VH9j/bC2gZjqU+JoS6EbFff60b+VmWFa3EFJY//AqNRpsm1P rQUN38t9C11H+ryl7c0x2sa7WIf/8DRIZ/onXSIE1GQDuTuPRpi8h7QP6CTtH0FJ asSGr1ys1Gd8mlYgbl8ll8KL1zdi2VrU8sEatzPy7G+BUDXW443n0Hk1R5MZ9Kwe +oMVwI/4qsV5ysU62LeFFih6/savve/f2jV+0JCCyz/JDrOUoHo5M7GBzBSUh/w4 xVTpVRsF+Si1A2jn5mxqq3x3e6+z48N8BBsN+AQAIssyuiM3SYDyZ2tqsUEANI2Q WaRsGHt2yyJJQyFuN0zH0of/OaZPbHGhSS2lTFyQLnqL9hsmVJmQr23E47MBwy8r UvgaS3CoMG3DT07Lc1CDKp6hzdTRcBinudUdY8UT8PrGY5/nuVBx6bPlQqmgHrxc OQUexUFeY7v4KqoZklF1ee6bJ8j1tAIc19sHbDNYgQrXaFFimQPEWv8jSlnycr3d dR0zWEfEDfQV+Gi3YdTxiu4/Tssjb9l4uAZfq+kZSi5Kk3MBr7hdjgvQN2SadepB AY8A+mWiEIcUEjQeHUdWWTK6hTkWL6fd0a3AzBv73qT+AqkplZb/X8ODG4GE8s3B M2RdrxBNY9cZEQ6pkKMeQvhC/11fKJRjlcbyYgxrJhSgkyklGng= =EzHG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tsOsTdHNUZQcU9Ye-- From nobody Thu Sep 27 02:00:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C658130E1D; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 01:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g_ZQpIJCNvaC; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 01:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56884130E13; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 01:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FD3441951; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:59:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FC057; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:59:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F94E4E; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:59:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 22921 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 08:59:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:59:48 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch@ietf.org Cc: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180927085947.GA5321@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] Short review of SenML fetch/patch X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 08:59:59 -0000 --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello authors, as requested during yesterday's interim meeting, I've had a look at senml-fetch again: Fetch =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Fetching by time ---------------- Being able to pick aparticular timestamp is an oddly specific application; my impression of general SenML data sets is that it will be hard to predict which point in time should have a datum if that record is not already known. Unless there are good (and argued for) use cases, I suggest that the topic of fetching time series points be explored comprehensively in a separate document, possibly hooking into draft-bormann-t2trg-stp. Using SenML to fetch -------------------- SenML requires to have a value (or sum) on every record, the payload of the fetch request therefore can't use any of the defined SenML mime types but would need to specify their own. I'm unsure on whether adding a field like "fetch_":1 to the first record (a mandatory-to-decode custom field) would be sufficient to work around that constraint. Otherwise, it might be an option to update RFC8428 to say that some of those limitations (also the later "v":null) may be overridden in applications like this where it is made sure (eg. by never using those freedoms in Content or PUT payloads) that no generic SenML processor ever gets its hands on the document. The payload sent in as a FETCH payload is not actually sensor data, it's a list of names (or, provided they're viewed as URIs, which I recommend) links. We already have a way to transmit a list of links in CoRE (actually 3 with links-json). I don't object to introducing another (given the above, might be called application/links+senml+{cbor,json}?) especially to reduce parsing complexity, but do suggest that FETCHing SenML data be done with a list of identifiers no matter how they are transported, and the recommended way can well be a SenML-names-only payload (but would not preclude others). Patch =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "value field with value null": There has been some backpressure against having variable-type fields in SenML back when its JSON/CBOR structure was last changed; having a "v":null in there could be problematic (esp. as its JSON type is fixed to Number in Table 2 of RFC8428). I suggest having a explicit "delete value" field, eg. "vdel":true. How would base values work with patch? I figure that it's always the resolved record that matter, but that should be explicit. In connection with a "vdel" (or "v":null if it turns out it's OK for it to stay like that), it might make sense to allow that too (where a "v":n would override "vdel" or "v":null from an offset of zero) to allow for efficient batch removal of values. Security considerations =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "potentially allow retrieving or changing many resources at once" makes it sound like FETCH and PATCH could reach out to different resources. They don't (conceptually), they only manipulate what's inside the target resource (which typically is an aggregation of other resources, as in a core-interfaces batch). Suggested replacement: In FETCH and iPATCH requests, the client can pass arbitrary names to the target resource for manipulation. The resource implementer must take care to only allow access to names that are actually part of (or accessible through) the target resource. =20 If the client is not allowed to do a GET or PUT on the full target resource (and thus all the names accessible through it), access control rules must be evaluated for each record in the pack. (It's fine if someone goes ahead and defines a /senml resource on their device that is a gate to "everything and anything that can be addressed in SenML", but that shouldn't be the default assumption). Best regards Christian --=20 You don't become great by trying to be great. You become great by wanting to do something, and then doing it so hard that you become great in the process. -- Marie Curie (as quoted by Randall Munroe) --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAlusnAAACgkQOY0REtOk veEOnBAAvAd11OGOm/ypYEtb5acJCkt5imA9tcQGFakp7hiyid1bXtJoZ7L9zDsM MqdkRlKBpbBq8yIferXNOQ0C7kdBdhpfAz9ZxlTWGTcVHszuTdMRBvQSS7m1EZER Q2CUxP9CKuKpUvCqB7DPvS8FERtya5dOGGSOAWqIYUND8VsyL+tJECpGSOLaIcPJ Of29pf7VVO/sbJBLlp3M+JGIQyBnchG1WsJxYIAfoTGJEpsF8M3PnNr5J9dEFaln 40GauudEejqyhLEKM/QYGyny7lTrKlfLEJeKG9hpDw5q6lMOa44nqryBKKJcWIQ5 AN32PbY9A+Sf/CDoHKQb8ic2kKi898mtLxvb0weM2XWivQerEUBVdC/6ceseGcmK +A+lKVPnnJpRCwOk8szdXpqvh6XpV5vrLZUEmkzUQTJ66vB0/ihJMs+TsdQ0q7WN HBMDklwnNkdOxv6VqGysCFLYSGdcWgIE3aXt085mcWYPzPGk0sjqfldNgMzpH/Mz GAa5T4vBGAseXvZfh6nbx2BB+3OxRCt55VHng8+oMGxpJpLL8jKoH/vgapuQLiAA vsHsdviDw2qUw53CQ2KTYtW5d3zFcWS5d0L2kAlszUMEaADAe6w3dlfaHhPczRZF BgpAphQX4VQeaLTmrK9I1Mu0yt/HskFpyXdpkpILg6yrVayGFNg= =K7rS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG-- From nobody Thu Sep 27 03:43:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 621E6130E29 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 03:43:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WFVoo5LCAmBP for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 03:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE77130DF6 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 03:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A64A341951 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:43:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1833157 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:43:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hephaistos.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010::71b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE33A19 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:43:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 452 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:43:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:43:39 +0200 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180927104338.GB5321@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bAmEntskrkuBymla" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [core] pre-draft: Dereference Link type ("redirection") X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:43:51 -0000 --bAmEntskrkuBymla Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jho1yZJdad60DJr+" Content-Disposition: inline --jho1yZJdad60DJr+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE, there have been some occasions on which redirection hase come up invarious forms. A corner use case for that popped up again when reviewing the senml-fetch draft. I don't plan on pushing this, as I personally have no use cases for it, but I'd rather have some place where to spool any demand for redirection and other forms of indirection, so that if and when there comes actual demand, there's something to start with. An initial pre-draft is attached ("pre-draft" because its style is probably too tongue-in-cheek for a draft upload), comments are welcome. Best regards Christian --=20 Most people would leave. Not us. We're Vikings. We have stubbornness issues. -- Hiccup, son of Stoic --jho1yZJdad60DJr+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-amsuess-core-dereference-type.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Expressing indirection in a dereferencing content type =20 =20 =09
CoRE C. Amsüss
Internet-Draft September 27, 2018
Expires: March 31, 2019

Expressing indirection in a dereferencing content type=
draft-amsuess-core-dereference-type-latest

=20

Abstract

[ See introduction ]

Status of This Memo

This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions= of BCP 78 and BCP 79.

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task F= orce (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents = as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet-Drafts is at https://data= tracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months an= d may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. I= t is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite = them other than as "work in progress."

This Internet-Draft will expire on March 31, 2019.

Copyright N= otice

Copyright (c) 2018 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document= authors. All rights reserved.

This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions= Relating to IETF Documents (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effe= ct on the date of publication of this document. Please review these docume= nts carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect t= o this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include= Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal= Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplifie= d BSD License.

1. Introduction

The topic of providing a content format that in= dicates that a particular URI should be dereferenced instead of using the p= ayload itself has come up time and again in CoRE [citation needed].

Nobody has done anything about it. [TDB: Check = whether that’s actually the case.]

Until now.

2. The Dereference Link type

The Dereference Link type is a media type for u= se with RESTful systems that carries a very particular piece of information= : That a representation of the requested resource is available at a given l= ocation.

The location of that representation is expresse= d in an [RFC6690] link format docum= ent that contains only a single link whose target is expressed as a URI (ie= =2E not a relative reference). The link MAY contain target attributes, whi= ch the client MAY ignore.

[ TBD: Detailed deliberations on whether to use= link-format, just a plain URI, links-json or what so not – and wheth= er a relative refrence can make sense. ]

A Dereference Link always indicates semantic eq= uivalence: It indicates that any information derived from its link target c= ould also have been obtained from the requested resource. It does not mean= that any resource representation obtained of the target resource could be = literally substituted for it.

This specification does not prescribe any behav= ior to recipients of a Dereference Link, it is up to application descriptio= ns to explore its security implications and to describe what a recipient ma= y or may not do about it.

2.1. Comp= arison to media-type specific inclusion

Various media types contain built-in faciliti= es to express the same intent as a Derefere Link:

A HTML document can contain an <ifra= me> tag that is displayed full-screen.

An SVG document can use the <image&g= t; tag to include another SVG file at the current location.

The C preprocessor directive #include allows sourcing in code from a different file. This is limited to lo= cal file systems, but preserves the semantics of the included file: If the = included file contains an #include itself, its argument is int= erpreted relative to the included file’s location.

LaTeX’s \input command doe= s something differetn than the Dereference Link type: it includes a literal= copy of the target file in the outer file’s source code, and any rel= ative references in there are interpreted relative to the outer document.

3. U= se cases

3.1. Redirection

People requested that CoAP have redirection &= #8211; be served:

GET coap://example.com/weather

2.05 Content
Content-Format: application/dereference+link-format
Payload:
  <coap://example.net/weather-in-vienna>

GET coap://example.net/weather-in-vienna

2.05 Content
Content-Format: application/senml+json
Payload:
  [{"n": "urn:example:weather:VIE:temperature", "v": 16.5, "u": "Cel"}]

Also works for POST operations:

POST coap://node.example.com/create-long-report

2.05 Content (sent immediately)
Content-Format: application/dereference+link-format
Payload:
  <coap://node.example.com/report-spool/123>

GET coap://node.example.com/report-spool/123

5.03 I'm Still Busy With That

=2E..

GET coap://node.example.com/report-spool/123

2.05 Here You Go
=2E..

3.2. Firmware uploads

Pushing a firmware upload using a close data = source:

PUT coap://node1.example.com/firmware
Content-Format: application/dereference+link-format
Payload:
  <coap://gateway.example.com/files/fw01234.bin>

(Server goes there and fetches its firmware update)

2.04 Changed

Note that different application specification= s might disagree on whether the server returns success immediately or wheth= er it needs to obtain a full copy before doing so.

3.3. Parametrized SenML FETCH

A batch of SenML values can be accessed with = a FETCH operation according to [I-D.keranen-core-senml-fetch] by sending a list of names = to the batch and receiving a subset of its data.

If one agrees that a list of names and a list= of resource links are interchangable, a server might support more elaborat= e queries using a filter language it has already built in:

FETCH coap://node1.example.com/bigbatch/
Content-Format: application/dereference+link-format
Payload:
  <coap://node1.example.com/.well-known/core?if=3Dcore.s&rt=3Dtemper=
ature>;ct=3D"40"

2.05 Content
Content-Format: application/senml+json
Payload:
  [{"bn": "coap://node1.example.com/s/", "bu": "degC",
    "n": "1/temp", "v": 16.4},
   {"n": "3/temp", "v": 20.3},
   {"n": "6/t-core", "v": 42.5}]

The hint that .well-known/core h= as a representation in application/link-format (ct=3D"40") is = probably needless here, given that the device will hopefully know by itself= and might not even trigger a CoAP request to the resource it hosts itself = if it can utilize its intrinsic knowledge in a more optimized way.

4. Security considerations

All kinds of things can go wrong with this.

Therefore, a recipient of a Derefere Link MUST = NOT act on it unless it is following a concrete specification that has its = own security considerations and policies on when a link should be followed.=

5. References

5.1. Normative References

[RFC6690] Shelby, Z., "Constra= ined RESTful Environments (CoRE) Link Format", RFC 6690, DOI 10.17487/R= FC6690, August 2012.
[RFC6838] Freed, N., Klensin, J. and T. Hansen, "Media Type Specifications and Registration= Procedures", BCP 13, RFC 6838, DOI 10.17487/RFC6838, January 2013.

5.2. Informative References

[I-D.keranen= -core-senml-fetch] Keranen, A. and M. Mohajer, "FETCH & PATCH with Sensor Mea= surement Lists (SenML)", Internet-Draft draft-keranen-core-senml-fetch-= 02, July 2018.

Appendix A. Examples

data:application/dereference;http://www.example= =2Ecom treated like http://www.example.com (if dereferencing allowed!)

Author's Address

Christian Amsüss=20 Amsüss Hollandstr. 12/4 =20 1020 Austria Phone: +43-664-9790639 EMail: c= hristian@amsuess.com
=20

Table of Contents

=20 --jho1yZJdad60DJr+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-amsuess-core-dereference-type.txt" CoRE C. Amsuess Internet-Draft September 27, 2018 Expires: March 31, 2019 Expressing indirection in a dereferencing content type draft-amsuess-core-dereference-type-latest Abstract [ See introduction ] Status of This Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." This Internet-Draft will expire on March 31, 2019. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2018 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Amsuess Expires March 31, 2019 [Page 1] Internet-DraftExpressing indirection in a dereferencing coSeptember 2018 1. Introduction The topic of providing a content format that indicates that a particular URI should be dereferenced instead of using the payload itself has come up time and again in CoRE [citation needed]. Nobody has done anything about it. [TDB: Check whether that's actually the case.] Until now. 2. The Dereference Link type The Dereference Link type is a media type for use with RESTful systems that carries a very particular piece of information: That a representation of the requested resource is available at a given location. The location of that representation is expressed in an [RFC6690] link format document that contains only a single link whose target is expressed as a URI (ie. not a relative reference). The link MAY contain target attributes, which the client MAY ignore. [ TBD: Detailed deliberations on whether to use link-format, just a plain URI, links-json or what so not - and whether a relative refrence can make sense. ] A Dereference Link always indicates semantic equivalence: It indicates that any information derived from its link target could also have been obtained from the requested resource. It does not mean that any resource representation obtained of the target resource could be literally substituted for it. This specification does not prescribe any behavior to recipients of a Dereference Link, it is up to application descriptions to explore its security implications and to describe what a recipient may or may not do about it. 2.1. Comparison to media-type specific inclusion Various media types contain built-in facilities to express the same intent as a Derefere Link: A HTML document can contain an "