From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jan 9 10:31:12 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04400 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BKgqw026250 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i05BKgx2026249 for dnsop-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BKdqw026127 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 03:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from i2kc05-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (smtp5.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.139]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i05BKcXs019619 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:20:38 +0100 (MET) Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.182]) by i2kc05-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:20:28 +0000 Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([10.216.123.42]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:20:21 +0000 Received: From i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.185]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1073301619991; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:20:19 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:20:19 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by smtp5.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 4 Jan 2004 07:53:31 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i046tRqw010136 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i046tRif010135 for dnsop-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i046tPqw010034 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i046tOXs010715 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 07:55:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i046tB908398; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:55:11 +0200 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:55:11 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: matthew.ford@bt.com cc: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2004 07:53:31.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8BDD500:01C3D297] X-Antispam: Blocked as spam by Teamconnect Anti Spam Check v1.1 X-Original-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Pekka Savola On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, JINMEI Tatuya / [ISO-2022-JP] 神明達哉 wrote: > As far as I remember, I've not seen any direct responses to my > questions. But my understanding in this (almost stale) thread is that > the draft has been adopted as a wg document and the goal is to publish > it as an informational RFC. > > Based on this understanding, I've revised draft addressing comments so > far. I've seen two major issues, which I'd like to be sure about the > resolution before submitting the revised draft: [...] At least I agree with your proposals, thanks for keeping this thread alive! -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jan 9 10:56:23 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08663 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:56:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073tuu1016653 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i073tuFS016652 for dnsop-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073tsu1016625 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from fxshpr08.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (fxshpr08.extra.daimlerchrysler.com [129.9.80.165]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i073tqXs004620 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 04:55:53 +0100 (MET) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by fxshpr08.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (8.12.8/8.9.0) id i073oHHM029133 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:50:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from nodnsquery(129.9.147.104) by fxshpr08.extra.daimlerchrysler.com via csmap (V6.0) id srcAAAjuaG54; Tue, 6 Jan 04 22:50:17 -0500 Received: from shconpr2-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com ([127.0.0.1]) by shconpr2-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (Mail-Gear 2.0.0 bld 66) with SMTP id M2004010622555004287 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:55:50 -0500 Received: from shmrspr2-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com ([129.9.145.240]) by shconpr2-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.1.32) with SMTP id M2004010622555031082 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:55:50 -0500 Received: from wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com (wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com [53.230.102.164]) by shmrspr2-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (8.12.10/8.11.2/daimlerchrysler-relay-1.1-kcd) with ESMTP id i073tovd015148 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from daimlerchrysler.com (wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com [53.230.102.164]) by wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com (8.12.10/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i073tOqL029806 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 22:55:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FFB832C.1000907@daimlerchrysler.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:55:24 -0500 From: Kevin Darcy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: comments about morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Kevin Darcy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JINMEI Tatuya / ???? wrote: >>Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the >> name is not compliant to the specifications >> >> > > > >>==> s/to/with/ (I've seen both but I think that with is better)? >> >> > >I myself does not have a strong opinion on this. If someone else, >particularly a native English speaker, makes a (quick) strong >suggestion, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll leave the wording as is. > >Some detailed background of this decision: >I've grepped for "compliant to" and "compliant with" over RFCs, >and have not seen a significant difference: > >(per line result) >% grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | wc -l > 155 >% grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | wc -l > 182 > >(per document result) >% grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l > 117 >% grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l > 101 > >(This comparison may not be fair, though, because most documents using >'compliant to' are MIB related ones, and the result may simply come >from a preference of a small group/individual.) > I would change the main verb from "comply" to "conform", and rewrite the whole subphrase as a verb construct (since "... is ... is ..." tends to grate slightly), i.e. >Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the > name does not conform to the specifications > Actually, the whole sentence could be tightened up and merged with the previous one: This fallback mechanism is based on the DNS specifications, which if not obeyed by authoritative servers can produce unpleasant results. (Admittedly, "obey" is slightly less well-defined than either "comply" or "conform", but its use obviates the placement to two prepositions in a row). - Kevin . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jan 9 11:11:52 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10089 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:11:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fRqw023457 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i066fRYj023456 for dnsop-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fPqw023450 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fKXs026848 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:41:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:4819:200:39ff:fea7:b6e4]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFC615263; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:41:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:41:02 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Pekka Savola Cc: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: [dnsop] Re: comments about morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00 In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= >>>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:46:39 +0900, >>>>> JINMEI Tatuya said: > As for editorial comments, we'll take them into account when we ever > have a chance to revise the draft. (At the moment, I, for one, do not > see the need.) But in any event, we appreciate all the comments. So, it's time to make a response to the rest of the comments (including one "substantial" comment). >>>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:15:42 +0300 (EEST), >>>>> Pekka Savola said: > 4.2 Return NOTIMP > Other authoritative servers return a response with the RCODE being 4 > (NOTIMP), indicating the servers do not support the requested type of > query. > [...] > Using SERVFAIL or FORMERR would cause the same effect, though the > authors have not seen such implementations yet. > ==> I recall faintly that e.g. bind 4.9 series prior to patching some > years ago returned SERVFAIL? Maybe also have a look at: > http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/ngtrans/200110/msg00123.html I would leave this part as is, since no one has shown more detailed information on this. Besides, the original sentence itself is still correct regardless of whether some BIND4.9 servers return SERVFAIL or not. > semi-editorial > -------------- > In the following sections, this > memo describes some typical cases of the misbehavior, the rationale, > and (bad) effects of them. > ==> "them" is an ambiguous referral. Does it refer to the both > misbehaviour and the rationale? Based on the memo, it looks like it > should only refer to the misbehaviour, because the document doesn't > generally look at the (bad) effects of the _rationale_ (why the DNS > queries are mishandled, which is typically just due to bugs or whatnot). I'll change the sentence to: In the following sections, this memo describes some typical cases of the misbehavior and its (bad) effects. that is, remove "the rationale", since this draft focuses on the behavior description and the effects (as you pointed out). > editorial > --------- > This memo describes details of the known cases and > discusses the effect. > ==> s/effect/effects of these cases/ (seems to end a bit abruptly?) Okay (though I'm not sure if this is really abrupt). > Many DNS clients (resolvers) that support IPv6 first search for AAAA > RRs (Resource Records) of a target host name, and then for A RRs of > the same name. > s/RRs (Resource Records)/Resource Records (RRs)/ Changed. > Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the > name is not compliant to the specifications > ==> s/to/with/ (I've seen both but I think that with is better)? I myself does not have a strong opinion on this. If someone else, particularly a native English speaker, makes a (quick) strong suggestion, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll leave the wording as is. Some detailed background of this decision: I've grepped for "compliant to" and "compliant with" over RFCs, and have not seen a significant difference: (per line result) % grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | wc -l 155 % grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | wc -l 182 (per document result) % grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l 117 % grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l 101 (This comparison may not be fair, though, because most documents using 'compliant to' are MIB related ones, and the result may simply come from a preference of a small group/individual.) > In some cases, for example, a web browser fails to connect > to a web server otherwise it could. > ==> s/otherwise it/it otherwise/ ? Thanks for catching this up, the original wording was incorrect. I'll fix this to: In some cases, for example, a web browser fails to connect to a web server it could otherwise. (slightly different from your suggestion) > The examples are for informational purposes > only, and the authors do not intend accusation against any > implementations or zone administrators described in this memo. > ==> s/intend accusation against/intend to accuse/ Okay (I don't think the previous one was wrong, but maybe "the simpler is the better"). > 4.4 Return a Broken Response > Some other type of authoritative servers return broken responses to > AAAA queries. > ==> s/type/types/ ? I'll change the sentence to: Another different type of authoritative servers returns broken responses to AAAA queries. The reason for the change is because we actually only know one "type" of the broken response: using an IPv4 address as the RDATA of a AAAA query. > Full Copyright Statement > ==> add the IPR boilerplate section before this? Hmm, I don't know why the previous draft missed the boilerplate. The xml2rfc script should have automatically attached it. Perhaps I used an older version of the script? This time, at least my local copy of the text contains the boilerplate. Thanks, JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Jan 10 10:33:59 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08830 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlhu1011705 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0ADlhgs011703 for dnsop-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlfu1011686 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlcXs006689 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:47:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:8002:200:39ff:fea7:b6e4]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8E21525D; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:47:32 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:47:29 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Kevin Darcy Cc: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: comments about morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00 In-Reply-To: <3FFB832C.1000907@daimlerchrysler.com> References: <3FFB832C.1000907@daimlerchrysler.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= >>>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:55:24 -0500, >>>>> Kevin Darcy said: >>> Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the >>> name is not compliant to the specifications >> >>> ==> s/to/with/ (I've seen both but I think that with is better)? (snip) >> I myself does not have a strong opinion on this. If someone else, >> particularly a native English speaker, makes a (quick) strong >> suggestion, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll leave the wording as is. (snip) > I would change the main verb from "comply" to "conform", and rewrite the > whole subphrase as a verb construct (since "... is ... is ..." tends to > grate slightly), i.e. >> Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the >> name does not conform to the specifications >> > Actually, the whole sentence could be tightened up and merged with the > previous one: > This fallback mechanism is based on the DNS specifications, which if > not obeyed by authoritative servers can produce unpleasant results. > (Admittedly, "obey" is slightly less well-defined than either "comply" > or "conform", but its use obviates the placement to two prepositions in > a row). Thanks for the suggestion. Again, I myself does not have a particular opinion on the wording, but I'll take this one. This is probably a good compromise to avoid the "to vs with" discussion. There was another occurrence of "compliant to" in the original draft: There are some known cases not compliant to the expected behavior. (the first sentence of Section 4) I'll change the sentence using "conform" as suggested: There are some known cases that does not conform to the expected behavior. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Jan 12 14:08:08 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11640 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHUMu1001236 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0CHUMe5001230 for dnsop-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (m106.maoz.com [205.167.76.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHULu1001174 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CHUL6f013584 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:21 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0CHUL2h013583 for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:21 -0800 From: David Meyer To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] Agenda Items for Seoul? Message-ID: <20040112173021.GA13563@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: David Meyer Folks, It's time to start thinking about DNSOP agenda items for the Seoul meeting. Please see the draft agenda skeleton below, and forward agenda items to Rob and I. As usual, we'd also like to solicit a scribe now. If there is anyone who knows they will be there and can serve as scribe, please drop me an email. Thanks, Dave & Rob ----- Domain Name System Operations WG (dnsop) Draft Agenda ===================================================== o Agenda Bashing Meyer/Austein o Review and status of work items Active Drafts ------------- draft-ietf-dnsop-bad-dns-res-01.txt Larson/Barber draft-ietf-dnsop-dnssec-operational-practices-00.txt Kolkman/Gieben draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-03.txt Durand/Ihren draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-transport-guidelines-01.txt Durand draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-00.txt Vixie/Kato Expired/Inactive Drafts ----------------------- draft-ietf-dnsop-dontpublish-unreachable-04.txt Hazel draft-ietf-dnsop-keyhand-05.txt Lewis draft-ietf-dnsop-ohta-shared-root-server-03.txt Ohta draft-ietf-dnsop-resolver-rollover-01.txt Kolkman draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-02.txt Conrad draft-ietf-dnsop-inaddr-required-05.txt Senie Other Active Drafts ----------------------- draft-guette-dnsop-key-rollover-requirements-00.txt Dupont . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Jan 12 14:59:20 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13878 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CIoLux012558 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0CIoLt5012551 for dnsop-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (m106.maoz.com [205.167.76.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CIoKux012483 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CIoK6f015270; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:20 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0CIoKTS015269; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:50:20 -0800 From: David Meyer To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] informal survey: Who's going to Seoul? Message-ID: <20040112185020.GA15256@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: David Meyer Folks, I'm trying to run an informal survey of who's going to Seoul (for scheduling purposes). Please drop me a note oob if you're planning on atttending. Thanks, Dave . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jan 21 18:11:55 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA16406 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0LLxlGN013515 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0LLxl4a013508 for dnsop-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (m106.maoz.com [205.167.76.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0LLxkxX013419 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0LLxk3K018470 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:46 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0LLxk5w018469 for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:59:46 -0800 From: David Meyer To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] I-D deadline approaching Message-ID: <20040121215946.GA18463@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: David Meyer Folks, Heads up: The deadline to submit initial documents (-00) for Seoul is 02.09.2004. Dave . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 13:15:51 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02395 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MGPPeQ007984 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0MGPPxm007974 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (m106.maoz.com [205.167.76.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MGPOVM007934 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from m106.maoz.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MGPO3K027197 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:24 -0800 Received: (from dmm@localhost) by m106.maoz.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0MGPOHr027196 for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: m106.maoz.com: dmm set sender to dmm@1-4-5.net using -f Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:25:24 -0800 From: David Meyer To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D deadline approaching Message-ID: <20040122162524.GA27178@1-4-5.net> References: <20040121215946.GA18463@1-4-5.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040121215946.GA18463@1-4-5.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-public-key: http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/public-key.asc X-philosophy: "I just had to let it go" -- John Lennon Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: David Meyer On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 01:59:46PM -0800, David Meyer wrote: >> Folks, >> >> Heads up: The deadline to submit initial documents (-00) >> for Seoul is 02.09.2004. >> In case there is any confusion, the deadline is February 09, 2004. Thanks, Dave . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 15:53:26 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11080 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:53:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MJYf2s011200 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0MJYfXA011198 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from riddler.dyndns.org (c-24-17-77-4.client.comcast.net [24.17.77.4]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MJYd8S011083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mdf by riddler.dyndns.org with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1Ajkb3-000Nl6-5q; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:33 -0800 From: Mark Foster To: Doug Barton Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) Message-ID: <20040122193433.GA91138@riddler.foster.cc> References: <20031211153538.GA13591@riddler.foster.cc> <348.1071159362@gromit.rfc1035.com> <20031211172310.GE13591@riddler.foster.cc> <3FDE1747.7030207@dougbarton.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="C7zPtVaVf+AK4Oqc" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FDE1747.7030207@dougbarton.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Mark Foster --C7zPtVaVf+AK4Oqc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 12:19:19PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: > Mark Foster wrote: >=20 > >OK. However this approach ignores the real-world observations that lame= =20 > >delegations produce an inordinate load on the parent name servers, > >apparently due to broken resolver implementation(s). > >=20 > >I have seen this happen a number of times. The resulting query loop > >has comprised up to 80% of the parent server query traffic. >=20 > There is a serious problem with one very popular vendor's resolving name= =20 > server implementation wherein if _all_ the name servers in the parent's= =20 > delegation are lame, it will enter a loop. If even one of the name=20 > servers in the delegation respond, the loop is broken. >=20 > Doug >=20 Sorry for the long delay in getting back about this. Can you elaborate on this apparent deficiency in the DNS infrastructure? Is the vendor Microsoft? It seems that if a ccTLD chooses to accept registrations from the general public, but chooses to not enforce authoritative name servers before publishing the delegation, they are opening themselves up for a denial of= =20 service attack. If the ccTLD name servers are taken out, the ccTLD goes=20 dark. So if these ccTLDs are not built to scale to the attack, they are at risk. Could this happen, and if so how can the risk be mitigated? --=20 Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints... Mark Foster http://mark.foster.cc/ --C7zPtVaVf+AK4Oqc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAECXIsP1x4ZySqYcRAoFXAJ91LJkPUrA1+2FUTCv4ecM8Ke405gCfcAfb aDKtvkUjeMQZVlWXBIA8ilg= =XkML -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --C7zPtVaVf+AK4Oqc-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 17:54:30 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA18331 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:54:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MLYiYu023514 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0MLYiYV023507 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MLYgES023363 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by gromit.rfc1035.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MLYWt5005189; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:34:32 GMT To: Mark Foster cc: Doug Barton , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Foster of "Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:33 PST." <20040122193433.GA91138@riddler.foster.cc> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:34:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jim Reid >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Foster writes: Mark> It seems that if a ccTLD chooses to accept registrations Mark> from the general public, but chooses to not enforce Mark> authoritative name servers before publishing the delegation, Mark> they are opening themselves up for a denial of service Mark> attack. If the ccTLD name servers are taken out, the ccTLD Mark> goes dark. So if these ccTLDs are not built to scale to Mark> the attack, they are at risk. Enforcing a check for authoritative servers at delegation time isn't much help, though it's a start. What happens if the delegation goes lame later? I recall a survey Patrik Faltstrom did of the .se TLD a couple of years ago. The registry has/had a bunch of checks before a delegation was made. If the zone wasn't set up right, no delegation was done. Even in that environment, entropy eventually wins. Around 25% of the delegations in .se were broken in one way or another. Though this figure included more errors than just lame delegations. Even without any lame delegations -- and that's too much to even fantasise about -- few zones have infrastructure that's robust enough to withstand DDoS attack. Come to think of it, there's probably nothing that can cope with a serious and sustained DDoS attack. As anyone who's tried to buy the year's favourite toy in the run-up to xmas could tell you. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 18:46:04 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA20500 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MMIiiT017148 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0MMIihc017146 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from parsley.amaranth.net (parsley.amaranth.net [208.254.46.23]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MMIgxg017044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Willow.senie.com (h0006b1049b35.ne.client2.attbi.com [24.91.86.165]) (authenticated bits=0) by parsley.amaranth.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0MMIZ5Z021401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:41 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040122170451.03123f48@mail.amaranth.net> X-Sender: dts@mail.amaranth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:28 -0500 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Daniel Senie Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> References: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Daniel Senie At 04:34 PM 1/22/2004, Jim Reid wrote: > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Foster writes: > > Mark> It seems that if a ccTLD chooses to accept registrations > Mark> from the general public, but chooses to not enforce > Mark> authoritative name servers before publishing the delegation, > Mark> they are opening themselves up for a denial of service > Mark> attack. If the ccTLD name servers are taken out, the ccTLD > Mark> goes dark. So if these ccTLDs are not built to scale to > Mark> the attack, they are at risk. > >Enforcing a check for authoritative servers at delegation time isn't >much help, though it's a start. What happens if the delegation goes >lame later? It's worse than that, actually. If I go onto the reseller system my company uses to sell domain names and register a name, I don't yet know for sure that I will get the name. Do I inject the proposed name into my name servers, then check to see if it's available? Do I check that it's available, add to my name servers, then go back and reserve it and see if someone else got it in between? I'm not convinced there's value to our messing with our name servers until such time as the name is successfully registered. The name servers we specify in records DO exist. A check to see that the servers are legit would be reasonable. But checking to see that the servers provide authoritative answers for a domain that has not yet been delegated seems like a very BAD idea. There's got to be a bit of slack in the sequencing. It'd actually be quite welcome if TLD managers had some way to run automated reports that'd email out reports to technical contacts about any domains that were returning lame delegations. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 20:10:08 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22546 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MNxMAS010190 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0MNxM79010188 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0MNxK1U010160 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by gromit.rfc1035.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0MNxIt5005315; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:59:19 GMT To: Daniel Senie cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: Message from Daniel Senie of "Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:18:28 EST." <6.0.1.1.2.20040122170451.03123f48@mail.amaranth.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:59:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5313.1074815958@gromit.rfc1035.com> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jim Reid >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Senie writes: Daniel> It'd actually be quite welcome if TLD managers had some Daniel> way to run automated reports that'd email out reports to Daniel> technical contacts about any domains that were returning Daniel> lame delegations. In theory, yes. In practice, no. How do you send email to somewhere that lives behind a lame delegation? Some of the problems Patrik's survey of .se identified included broken or non-existent MX records, email addresses that were not known to the target SMTP server, bogus contact data in the registry database and SOA RNAME, MX records which pointed at hosts with no SMTP listener, etc. There are other problems with your suggestion too. For example, registries might get into trouble with their national competition authorities if they start offering services that are outwith their monopoly position and could be provided by others. Some registries won't have the infrastructure or revenue to do these sorts of pro-active checks. And there's a whole world of difference between reporting a lame delegation and getting the zone owner to fix the problem. Or force them to fix it. Having said that, I'd like delegations to be checked regularly. Even better if it's done by an outside party. This is good housekeeping and it's good for the health of the internet. Registrars are probably better placed than anyone else to do those checks. One thing a registry could do is remove lame delegations from the TLD zone file -- but not the zone's registration from the registry database -- and restore them once the name servers are fixed. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 20:53:51 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24509 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:53:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N0bDha002719 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N0bD8P002710 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from parsley.amaranth.net (parsley.amaranth.net [208.254.46.23]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N0bBdO002510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Willow.senie.com (h0006b1049b35.ne.client2.attbi.com [24.91.86.165]) (authenticated bits=0) by parsley.amaranth.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0N0b95V032674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:37:10 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040122192801.02c92460@mail.amaranth.net> X-Sender: dts@mail.amaranth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:32:44 -0500 To: Jim Reid From: Daniel Senie Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu In-Reply-To: <5313.1074815958@gromit.rfc1035.com> References: <5313.1074815958@gromit.rfc1035.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Daniel Senie At 06:59 PM 1/22/2004, Jim Reid wrote: > >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Senie writes: > > Daniel> It'd actually be quite welcome if TLD managers had some > Daniel> way to run automated reports that'd email out reports to > Daniel> technical contacts about any domains that were returning > Daniel> lame delegations. > >In theory, yes. In practice, no. How do you send email to somewhere >that lives behind a lame delegation? There's a reason I specifically said "Technical Contact." With a large percentage of the registrations we see or initiate, the Technical Contact is NOT within the domain the registration covers. > Some of the problems Patrik's >survey of .se identified included broken or non-existent MX records, >email addresses that were not known to the target SMTP server, bogus >contact data in the registry database and SOA RNAME, MX records which >pointed at hosts with no SMTP listener, etc. Clearly there is an ongoing problem with bogus data. >There are other problems with your suggestion too. For example, >registries might get into trouble with their national competition >authorities if they start offering services that are outwith their >monopoly position and could be provided by others. Some registries >won't have the infrastructure or revenue to do these sorts of >pro-active checks. And there's a whole world of difference between >reporting a lame delegation and getting the zone owner to fix the >problem. Or force them to fix it. I guess I didn't think about this as a service that'd cost the registrants money. At least with the gTLD's, the registry is already being paid for service. This would be a way they could provide an improvement on that service, though it's also something that registrars could do themselves in the case of the gTLDs. >Having said that, I'd like delegations to be checked regularly. Even >better if it's done by an outside party. This is good housekeeping and >it's good for the health of the internet. Registrars are probably >better placed than anyone else to do those checks. One thing a >registry could do is remove lame delegations from the TLD zone file -- >but not the zone's registration from the registry database -- and >restore them once the name servers are fixed. I think we're in basic agreement that something of this sort would be a help. The question of how to implement it is probably a business decision for those who might implement it, and beyond the scope of the WG. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 21:48:24 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25827 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N1prD7012149 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N1praS012147 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-5v.club-internet.fr (relay-5v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.110]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N1ppKw012097 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from jfc2.club-internet.fr (f02v-28-126.d0.club-internet.fr [212.195.243.126]) by relay-5v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A580016A0; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:51:42 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040123012415.052b69a0@mail.club-internet.fr> X-Sender: jefsey@mail.club-internet.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:31:40 +0100 To: Daniel Senie , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040122170451.03123f48@mail.amaranth.net> References: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040122170451.03123f48@mail.amaranth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" At 23:18 22/01/04, Daniel Senie wrote: >It'd actually be quite welcome if TLD managers had some way to run >automated reports that'd email out reports to technical contacts about any >domains that were returning lame delegations. It would be most welcome. I run a small TLD list (around 1800 domain names) so I still can run a dig on all the names, to get some experience of the name space. I find the number of non resolving names very high (however registrants paid a high price for their name and renew): around a quarter of them. Any existing tool which could help? JFC Morfin . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 22:10:04 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26301 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2DTNP027047 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N2DTLr027046 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2DR9v027037 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by gromit.rfc1035.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2DQt5005970; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:13:26 GMT To: Daniel Senie cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: Message from Daniel Senie of "Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:32:44 EST." <6.0.1.1.2.20040122192801.02c92460@mail.amaranth.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:13:26 +0000 Message-ID: <5969.1074824006@gromit.rfc1035.com> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jim Reid >>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Senie writes: Daniel> There's a reason I specifically said "Technical Contact." Daniel> With a large percentage of the registrations we see or Daniel> initiate, the Technical Contact is NOT within the domain Daniel> the registration covers. While that may be the case for your customers and their registrations, I doubt if it holds for the rest of the world's registrants and registrars. It would be good to get hard data on what percentage of email addresses for technical contacts actually reach a valid, clueful technical contact. We know this information is often broken. But how many and how badly? Daniel> Clearly there is an ongoing problem with bogus data. Indeed. But who's going to do anything about it? Should we care? Daniel> I think we're in basic agreement that something of this Daniel> sort would be a help. The question of how to implement it Daniel> is probably a business decision for those who might Daniel> implement it, and beyond the scope of the WG. I agree that checking tools and enforcement procedures would help. These need to be based on something like an agreed BCP. This falls within the scope of this WG. How that BCP was then implemented would be a combination of business and policy decisions. ie A registry or registar decides to offer this as a value-added service. Or perhaps ICANN tells registries/registrars they have to do this. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 22:14:27 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26410 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:14:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2FcLl028150 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N2Fcj9028147 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2FaCp028111 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.67]) by gromit.rfc1035.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0N2FYt5005989; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:15:34 GMT To: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" cc: Daniel Senie , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) In-Reply-To: Message from "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" of "Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:31:40 +0100." <6.0.1.1.2.20040123012415.052b69a0@mail.club-internet.fr> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 02:15:34 +0000 Message-ID: <5988.1074824134@gromit.rfc1035.com> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Jim Reid >>>>> "J-F" == J-F C (Jefsey) Morfin writes: >> It'd actually be quite welcome if TLD managers had some way to >> run automated reports that'd email out reports to technical >> contacts about any domains that were returning lame >> delegations. J-F> Any existing tool which could help? There are zillions of them. As you'd see by feeding "DNS Delegation Checking tools" into google. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 22 22:41:51 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27457 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2eqqG012930 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N2eqV3012929 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-3m.club-internet.fr (relay-3m.club-internet.fr [194.158.104.42]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N2epjj012914 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from jfc2.club-internet.fr (f02v-28-126.d0.club-internet.fr [212.195.243.126]) by relay-3m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929F2E048; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:40:47 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040123031115.052eb7f0@mail.club-internet.fr> X-Sender: jefsey@mail.club-internet.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:18:36 +0100 To: Daniel Senie , Jim Reid From: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040122192801.02c92460@mail.amaranth.net> References: <5313.1074815958@gromit.rfc1035.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040122192801.02c92460@mail.amaranth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" At 01:32 23/01/04, Daniel Senie wrote: >I think we're in basic agreement that something of this sort would be a >help. The question of how to implement it is probably a business decision >for those who might implement it, and beyond the scope of the WG Before taking a business decision, there is a need to know what is technically possible and reasonably advisable. Could you help with a practial suggestion ? Removing a lame server will not be noticed by the user, until he corrects the problem. Then he will harass us is asking why it does not work and when will it be back again. So a substantial effort from our side. I thought about giving a mailbox to every registrant and to use it to relte with them. So at least when they have a problem they can come and see all the pending infromation they did not read. If you have a good suggestion, I am OK to see how to implement it and to report on its results. jfc . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jan 23 01:03:23 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA01483 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N4ljSa018680 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0N4ljQQ018679 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0N4liLp018663 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [3ffe:501:100f:1048:200:39ff:fea7:b6e4]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091461525D for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:47:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:47:40 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] a revised version of the misbehavior-against-aaaa draft User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= Hello, I revised draft-morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00.txt and submitted the revised version as a dnsop wg document 10 days ago. The draft is still waiting for chair's approval as a wg document, so I've temporarily put the draft at the following URL for those who are interested in this revision: http://www.jinmei.org/draft-ietf-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00.txt I believe we authors addressed all the comments received so far, and in that sense it's almost ready to be published (except that we need to remove appendix A, which talks about concrete examples, before publishing the document officially). But if I miss something, please let me know. Additional comments to the new draft are, of course, welcome. Thanks, JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp p.s. I've asked wg chairs for the approval and have been waiting over 1 week without seeing progress. Perhaps I misunderstood the procedure in the first place (e.g. I had to solicit wg consensus in this list, etc), and in that case, could someone here tell me how to do it correctly? . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Jan 26 03:42:33 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24905 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0Q7WWfH005118 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0Q7WWBg005117 for dnsop-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from slimsixten.pilsnet.sunet.se (slimsixten.pilsnet.sunet.se [192.36.125.115]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0Q7WTGa005104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slimsixten.pilsnet.sunet.se (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0Q7Npp21163 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:23:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:19:54 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Nilsson=2C_KTHNOC?= To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] lame delegation DOS (was ccTLD delegation analysis) Message-ID: <689500000.1075065594@localhost> In-Reply-To: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> References: <5188.1074807272@gromit.rfc1035.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.1 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========8531EFA79AA5E5F7F211==========" Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Nilsson=2C_KTHNOC?= --==========8531EFA79AA5E5F7F211========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --On Thursday, January 22, 2004 21:34:32 +0000 Jim Reid =20 wrote: > I recall a survey Patrik Faltstrom did of the .se TLD a > couple of years ago. The registry has/had a bunch of checks before a > delegation was made. If the zone wasn't set up right, no delegation > was done. This only applied for redelegation, not for new domains. Now, as the=20 registry has been more, if not enough, automated, the check applies to newly registered domains whose delegation data can be auto-submitted. But, DNS data for not yet approved domain registrations is not checked. > Even in that environment, entropy eventually wins. Around > 25% of the delegations in .se were broken in one way or another. > Though this figure included more errors than just lame delegations. Do note "one way or another". Not all these 25% were totally lame. Also, it has helped very much the common case of negligent dns operator at=20 web hotel who waits for "ok" from registry before setting up dns for a new=20 customer switching dns providers, thereby blackholing them for at least=20 TTL. --=20 M=E5ns Nilsson Systems Specialist +46 70 681 7204 KTHNOC MN1334-RIPE --==========8531EFA79AA5E5F7F211========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (NetBSD) iD8DBQFAFDL702/pMZDM1cURAgoyAJ9PnX8p2LSPUF34x3lc6WkbjoYDjgCeOtdE UjrIkGv3HLOogrx7+RIyikQ= =Q/Hr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========8531EFA79AA5E5F7F211==========-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Jan 27 05:59:23 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29206 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VFr4007624 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0R9VFui007623 for dnsop-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VDDi007602 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from i2kc04-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (smtp4.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.151]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VAgK026369 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.182]) by i2kc04-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:03 +0000 Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([10.216.123.42]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:02 +0000 Received: From i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.185]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 107519562918; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:27:09 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:27:07 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by smtp5.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:12:10 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlhu1011705 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0ADlhgs011703 for dnsop-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlfu1011686 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0ADlcXs006689 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:47:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:8002:200:39ff:fea7:b6e4]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8E21525D; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:47:32 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:47:29 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: matthew.ford@bt.com Cc: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: comments about morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00 In-Reply-To: <3FFB832C.1000907@daimlerchrysler.com> References: <3FFB832C.1000907@daimlerchrysler.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2004 15:12:11.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F063680:01C3D78C] X-Antispam: Blocked as spam by Teamconnect Anti Spam Check v1.1 X-Original-To: Kevin Darcy Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= >>>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:55:24 -0500, >>>>> Kevin Darcy said: >>> Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the >>> name is not compliant to the specifications >> >>> ==> s/to/with/ (I've seen both but I think that with is better)? (snip) >> I myself does not have a strong opinion on this. If someone else, >> particularly a native English speaker, makes a (quick) strong >> suggestion, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll leave the wording as is. (snip) > I would change the main verb from "comply" to "conform", and rewrite the > whole subphrase as a verb construct (since "... is ... is ..." tends to > grate slightly), i.e. >> Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the >> name does not conform to the specifications >> > Actually, the whole sentence could be tightened up and merged with the > previous one: > This fallback mechanism is based on the DNS specifications, which if > not obeyed by authoritative servers can produce unpleasant results. > (Admittedly, "obey" is slightly less well-defined than either "comply" > or "conform", but its use obviates the placement to two prepositions in > a row). Thanks for the suggestion. Again, I myself does not have a particular opinion on the wording, but I'll take this one. This is probably a good compromise to avoid the "to vs with" discussion. There was another occurrence of "compliant to" in the original draft: There are some known cases not compliant to the expected behavior. (the first sentence of Section 4) I'll change the sentence using "conform" as suggested: There are some known cases that does not conform to the expected behavior. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Jan 27 06:11:55 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA29689 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VFCM007629 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0R9VFpW007628 for dnsop-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VDN9007603 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from i2kc04-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (smtp4.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.151]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0R9VAgM026369 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:31:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.182]) by i2kc04-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:03 +0000 Received: from i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([10.216.123.42]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:31:02 +0000 Received: From i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([217.32.164.185]) by i2kc02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 107519562933; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:27:09 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by i2kv02-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:27:08 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.13]) by smtp2.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:48:02 +0000 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fRqw023457 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i066fRYj023456 for dnsop-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fPqw023450 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:41:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i066fKXs026848 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:41:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:4819:200:39ff:fea7:b6e4]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFC615263; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:41:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:41:02 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: matthew.ford@bt.com Cc: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: [dnsop] Re: comments about morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00 In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2004 07:48:02.0573 (UTC) FILETIME=[698753D0:01C3D429] X-Antispam: Blocked as spam by Teamconnect Anti Spam Check v1.1 X-Original-To: Pekka Savola Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= >>>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:46:39 +0900, >>>>> JINMEI Tatuya said: > As for editorial comments, we'll take them into account when we ever > have a chance to revise the draft. (At the moment, I, for one, do not > see the need.) But in any event, we appreciate all the comments. So, it's time to make a response to the rest of the comments (including one "substantial" comment). >>>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:15:42 +0300 (EEST), >>>>> Pekka Savola said: > 4.2 Return NOTIMP > Other authoritative servers return a response with the RCODE being 4 > (NOTIMP), indicating the servers do not support the requested type of > query. > [...] > Using SERVFAIL or FORMERR would cause the same effect, though the > authors have not seen such implementations yet. > ==> I recall faintly that e.g. bind 4.9 series prior to patching some > years ago returned SERVFAIL? Maybe also have a look at: > http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/lists/ngtrans/200110/msg00123.html I would leave this part as is, since no one has shown more detailed information on this. Besides, the original sentence itself is still correct regardless of whether some BIND4.9 servers return SERVFAIL or not. > semi-editorial > -------------- > In the following sections, this > memo describes some typical cases of the misbehavior, the rationale, > and (bad) effects of them. > ==> "them" is an ambiguous referral. Does it refer to the both > misbehaviour and the rationale? Based on the memo, it looks like it > should only refer to the misbehaviour, because the document doesn't > generally look at the (bad) effects of the _rationale_ (why the DNS > queries are mishandled, which is typically just due to bugs or whatnot). I'll change the sentence to: In the following sections, this memo describes some typical cases of the misbehavior and its (bad) effects. that is, remove "the rationale", since this draft focuses on the behavior description and the effects (as you pointed out). > editorial > --------- > This memo describes details of the known cases and > discusses the effect. > ==> s/effect/effects of these cases/ (seems to end a bit abruptly?) Okay (though I'm not sure if this is really abrupt). > Many DNS clients (resolvers) that support IPv6 first search for AAAA > RRs (Resource Records) of a target host name, and then for A RRs of > the same name. > s/RRs (Resource Records)/Resource Records (RRs)/ Changed. > Thus, if a DNS server which is responsible for the > name is not compliant to the specifications > ==> s/to/with/ (I've seen both but I think that with is better)? I myself does not have a strong opinion on this. If someone else, particularly a native English speaker, makes a (quick) strong suggestion, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll leave the wording as is. Some detailed background of this decision: I've grepped for "compliant to" and "compliant with" over RFCs, and have not seen a significant difference: (per line result) % grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | wc -l 155 % grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | wc -l 182 (per document result) % grep -i 'compliant to' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l 117 % grep -i 'compliant with' *.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq | wc -l 101 (This comparison may not be fair, though, because most documents using 'compliant to' are MIB related ones, and the result may simply come from a preference of a small group/individual.) > In some cases, for example, a web browser fails to connect > to a web server otherwise it could. > ==> s/otherwise it/it otherwise/ ? Thanks for catching this up, the original wording was incorrect. I'll fix this to: In some cases, for example, a web browser fails to connect to a web server it could otherwise. (slightly different from your suggestion) > The examples are for informational purposes > only, and the authors do not intend accusation against any > implementations or zone administrators described in this memo. > ==> s/intend accusation against/intend to accuse/ Okay (I don't think the previous one was wrong, but maybe "the simpler is the better"). > 4.4 Return a Broken Response > Some other type of authoritative servers return broken responses to > AAAA queries. > ==> s/type/types/ ? I'll change the sentence to: Another different type of authoritative servers returns broken responses to AAAA queries. The reason for the change is because we actually only know one "type" of the broken response: using an IPv4 address as the RDATA of a AAAA query. > Full Copyright Statement > ==> add the IPR boilerplate section before this? Hmm, I don't know why the previous draft missed the boilerplate. The xml2rfc script should have automatically attached it. Perhaps I used an older version of the script? This time, at least my local copy of the text contains the boilerplate. Thanks, JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jan 28 12:35:39 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15972 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0SG6JHt018288 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0SG6JGS018287 for dnsop-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0SG6Hx9018250 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0SG6EYJ012326 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:06:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06241; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:06:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200401281606.LAA06241@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: dnsop@cafax.se From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:06:07 -0500 Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Operational Considerations and Issues with IPv6 DNS Author(s) : A. Durand, J. Ihren Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2004-1-27 This memo presents operational considerations and issues with IPv6 Domain Name System (DNS), including a summary of special IPv6 addresses, documentation of known DNS implementation misbehaviour, recommendations and considerations on how to perform DNS naming for service provisioning and for DNS resolver IPv6 support, considerations for DNS updates for both the forward and reverse trees, and miscellaneous issues. This memo is aimed to include a summary of information about IPv6 DNS considerations for those who have experience with IPv4 DNS. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-1-28112614.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-1-28112614.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 29 11:16:20 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29267 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TEnWgC026568 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0TEnWp7026561 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TEnUoi026453 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (c68.185.192.35.ts46v-03.dntn.tx.charter.com [68.185.192.35]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TEnQli023862 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:49:27 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200401291449.i0TEnQli023862@nic.cafax.se> From: 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(8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0THq45u025437 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0THq4l6025430 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (llynch@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0THq3xV025382 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (llynch@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id i0THq3RA025362 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:52:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Lucy E. Lynch" To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] Safety Check Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Lucy E. Lynch" Someone on the list is infected: >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:24:02 +0000 >From: owner-dnsop@cafax.se >Subject: test > >------------------ Virus Warning Message (on mail2) > >Found virus WORM_MIMAIL.R in file text.pif (in text.zip) >The uncleanable file is deleted. If you're a windows user, please take a moment to scan your machine. Thanks - Lucy E. Lynch Academic User Services Computing Center University of Oregon llynch @darkwing.uoregon.edu (541) 346-1774/Cell: 912-7998 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jan 29 15:39:16 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17205 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TIr9Hx003843 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0TIr9Xo003842 for dnsop-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TIr8JT003711 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from HQ-SMTP.vsnl.co.in (mail.vsnl.co.in [202.54.117.12]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0TIr6co026299 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:53:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail pickup service by HQ-SMTP.vsnl.co.in with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:29:13 +0530 Received: from asgard.ietf.org ([132.151.6.40]) by HQ-SMTP.vsnl.co.in with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:19:21 +0530 Received: from majordomo by asgard.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.14) id 1AlsFs-00070d-MQ for ietf-announce-list@asgard.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:09:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28]) by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AlsCm-0006qA-Hg for all-ietf@asgard.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:06:16 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06241; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:06:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200401281606.LAA06241@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: dnsop@cafax.se From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:06:07 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2004 16:49:23.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEECD750:01C3E5BE] Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Operational Considerations and Issues with IPv6 DNS Author(s) : A. Durand, J. Ihren Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2004-1-27 This memo presents operational considerations and issues with IPv6 Domain Name System (DNS), including a summary of special IPv6 addresses, documentation of known DNS implementation misbehaviour, recommendations and considerations on how to perform DNS naming for service provisioning and for DNS resolver IPv6 support, considerations for DNS updates for both the forward and reverse trees, and miscellaneous issues. This memo is aimed to include a summary of information about IPv6 DNS considerations for those who have experience with IPv4 DNS. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-1-28112614.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-1-28112614.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Jan 31 02:53:38 2004 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11972 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0V6RTOa019445 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i0V6RTrS019442 for dnsop-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.cafax.se (nic.cafax.se [192.71.228.17]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0V6RRqS019326 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:27:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nortelnetworks.com (green02.telekom.ftn.ns.ac.yu [147.91.173.88]) by nic.cafax.se (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i0V6RPPH015907 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:27:26 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200401310627.i0V6RPPH015907@nic.cafax.se> From: mleech@nortelnetworks.com To: dnsop@cafax.se Subject: [dnsop] hi Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:31:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_B8D968A4.0ECC4095" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mleech@nortelnetworks.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_B8D968A4.0ECC4095 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_B8D968A4.0ECC4095 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="document.zip" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="document.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UEsDBAoAAAAAAPszPzDKJx+eAFgAAABYAAAMAAAAZG9jdW1lbnQuZXhlTVqQAAMAAAAEAAAA//8A ALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAqAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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