From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Jan 4 14:39:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E5D11E80D8 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:39:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F+1rwOLPgK2k for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771C311E80C1 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2EBF1ECB41C for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 22:39:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:39:47 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120104223947.GC33087@crankycanuck.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: [DNSOP] ICANN variant project update X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:39:49 -0000 Dear colleagues, Apologies in advance for duplicate postings. I didn't cross-post because of the difficulty that sometimes causes if people follow up on list to discuss issues. Many of you will be aware that ICANN undertook the IDN Variant Issues Project last year. (Full disclosure: I was involved in the project.) On 23 December 2011 the report was posted for public comment, and I realise that I have been remiss in drawing people's attention to it. This message is to fix that. You can see the public announcement at http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-2-23dec11-en.htm. That's also a good place to start in order to submit comments if you have them. The pubic comment period closes at the end of January 2012. ICANN is eagerly soliciting comments, and I hope that those of you interested in this topic will take the time to read the report and send your observations. Having been a participant in this particular sausage-making exercise, I will say that I am sure there are things that need improvement, expansion, or more careful statement. I'm aware that the report as it stands is rather long, and I appreciate the difficulty in finding the time to read, digest, and comment on all of it. Given the importance of the topic, however, I think it's worth it. It might be tempting to discuss the document on this list, but I think it would be better to take such discussion either to the project list (which is still, as far as I know, open -- vip@icann.org, list info at https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/vip) or to use the public-comment links in the announcement to send such comments. That way, ICANN staff are sure to see the comments. Thanks and best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Wed Jan 18 07:33:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF7321F8735 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:33:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eyauxt-KEBbA for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:33:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3003:2::4:11]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F2221F8637 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:33:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 410EE1C002F for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:33:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 30A291C00F4; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:33:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:9::4:163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D50D1C002F for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:33:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2219:8::6:69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FDFB3805C for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:33:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:33:51 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid X-Kernel: Linux 3.1.0-1-686-pae i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.002485, version=1.1.5 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.6.353000, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.1.350677, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.18.152116 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_400_499 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, NO_URI_FOUND 0, __CD 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Subject: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:33:56 -0000 I have a project where DNS data must be transported in Web-friendly environments, which mean encoded in JSON or XML. I'm not asking IETF to normalize DNS-in-XML or DNS-in-JSON :-) I will define my format and the field names, but I hope to save time by reusing analogue work. I'm aware of draft-mohan-dns-query-xml, which partially solves my problem (except I would like the RDATA to be structured as well, not a blob of "hexadecimal data"). Anything for JSON? From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Wed Jan 18 07:52:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F82B21F84CD for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:52:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwopjroxSlgC for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3003:2::4:11]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B902321F8781 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F44A1C00F5; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:52:48 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4F0921C00FD; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:52:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:9::4:163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE3C1C00F5; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:52:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2219:8::6:69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC23B3805C; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:52:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:52:48 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Paul Wouters Message-ID: <20120118155248.GA10910@nic.fr> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid X-Kernel: Linux 3.1.0-1-686-pae i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000033, version=1.1.5 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.6.353000, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.1.350677, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.18.154216 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_200_299 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, SMALL_BODY 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CD 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __URI_NO_PATH 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:52:54 -0000 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:41:46AM -0500, Paul Wouters wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > The latest unbound supports DNS over (real) HTTPS. The source and the documentation disagree. It is DNS over TLS, not over HTTPS. From paul@nohats.ca Wed Jan 18 07:42:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CF621F85EE for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:42:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.822 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.822 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36VwEW0W4zMi for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from letoams.cypherpunks.ca (unknown [76.10.157.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410BC21F85C2 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [127.0.0.1]) by letoams.cypherpunks.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EDB83FF5; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by bofh.nohats.ca (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q0IFfklH025775; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:41:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: bofh.nohats.ca: paul owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:41:46 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> Message-ID: References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (LFD 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:29:39 -0800 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:42:17 -0000 On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > I have a project where DNS data must be transported in Web-friendly > environments, which mean encoded in JSON or XML. I'm not asking IETF > to normalize DNS-in-XML or DNS-in-JSON :-) I will define my format and > the field names, but I hope to save time by reusing analogue work. > > I'm aware of draft-mohan-dns-query-xml, which partially solves my > problem (except I would like the RDATA to be structured as well, not a > blob of "hexadecimal data"). The latest unbound supports DNS over (real) HTTPS. See unbound.conf man page options "ssl-port", "ssl-service-key" and "ssl-service-pem". You can test it against the nlnetlabs resolver (I believe open.nlnletlabs.nl ?) Paul From paul@redbarn.org Wed Jan 18 09:35:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED8E21F8705 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kLrVfteNQ1R for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nsa.vix.com (nsa.vix.com [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0B721F8703 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0CAA1042; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:35:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@redbarn.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30:716f:eb0c:2608:53e5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30:716f:eb0c:2608:53e5]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8374A1057; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:35:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@redbarn.org) Message-ID: <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:35:12 +0000 From: Paul Vixie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Wouters References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:35:24 -0000 On 1/18/2012 3:41 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: > > The latest unbound supports DNS over (real) HTTPS. > > See unbound.conf man page options "ssl-port", "ssl-service-key" and > "ssl-service-pem". > > You can test it against the nlnetlabs resolver (I believe > open.nlnletlabs.nl ?) this sounds very cool; is there an internet draft or tech note describing the protocol so that others may also implement this? From wouter@nlnetlabs.nl Wed Jan 18 11:07:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F75C11E80BC for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:07:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.052 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.052 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.548, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlq3QaP5VoET for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rotring.dds.nl (rotring.dds.nl [85.17.178.138]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898A211E80A5 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rotring.dds.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DC558C5C for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:07:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.254.3] (195-241-9-117.adsl.dds.nl [195.241.9.117]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by rotring.dds.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C020587B2 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:07:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:06:54 +0100 From: "W.C.A. Wijngaards" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111101 SUSE/3.1.16 Thunderbird/3.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> In-Reply-To: <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.2 at rotring X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:07:12 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Paul, On 01/18/2012 06:35 PM, Paul Vixie wrote: > On 1/18/2012 3:41 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: >> >> The latest unbound supports DNS over (real) HTTPS. >> >> See unbound.conf man page options "ssl-port", "ssl-service-key" and >> "ssl-service-pem". >> >> You can test it against the nlnetlabs resolver (I believe >> open.nlnletlabs.nl ?) > > this sounds very cool; is there an internet draft or tech note > describing the protocol so that others may also implement this? It exists to bypass deep inspection firewalls, and it works. The plain DNS format as you would use over TCP, but then on an SSL connection, so its encrypted by SSLv3. Uses port number 443 (the https port, no other use of that protocol, but then, because of SSL the firewall should not be able to tell). The SSL-certificates are there to make the SSL connection look legit to the firewall. The DNSSEC inside the DNS wireformat provides authentication. There could be a technote or draft for it, but really: TCP-style-DNS inside SSL for transport. That should tell enough for an implementation? Best regards, Wouter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPFxhOAAoJEJ9vHC1+BF+Not8P/3jqeNwZ4D0uZPkTCcPFtRTu A/Zjq9h3Pgog1U/BqLQRjh4bl3xJQbSHh7fYjSMjJQKqjkR/LEM7nMXoPiCx26VW UFoRXDyZNfIYUguQvpnF56++D2gqarAOxFbiA3Ss5k4jh5wYWfq9bpmzymPNbqjn +fSCgYJoJNC0MkqHcoNz+UA7ARa41GXnA5+YIsVN72fLVbSKL5iHRvBsJryWdu6S RDr484/RKXt8VrXBcybrOd1y77MXJ47jU08CA2KL2NFfuvRxZKFf7GCi4Lt8O4yE FkEykU3efP8Isk96DrwOpkdn3pyIF4auvfULKB+36YlzXVb3jRosYhEcABFc54S2 4T6rFa0xdt+xL2MSZaJg4pxSH5RfGbLt0AXLFfYKhhpYvQJ+3sPH9fhwaW8oBWGT SD7K2uDX05Tqo4isWqFg2HF0hnHN67PIhu+PYAo9RvzwviHAJxvqaxZIkT5TlJ4b AweQ2CfPqUYQwffeVvEudSwE8OfzU5AIy3+w2BINaF+FT4F8tN2GoQdg0mbJwO5I CidzI5LQ8s3YEKQAKb/w7dnRsMVgFQh8zY/Vtzyox9Ykw3d4le/4vyso1Trx0byO CkSRqY5mFZv9K16lGcAJ78G02m/1hPYuW0CNadTE4v1J8HJ+E3Bc5OajbdB551Cd +cNORX0eUdyXhuKPpd8Q =myz7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paul@redbarn.org Wed Jan 18 11:14:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5166221F85D4 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sznoMKbqH7QR for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nsa.vix.com (nsa.vix.com [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84DF21F85A1 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76A4A1055; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:14:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@redbarn.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30:716f:eb0c:2608:53e5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:30:716f:eb0c:2608:53e5]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B95A1031; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:14:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@redbarn.org) Message-ID: <4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:14:27 +0000 From: Paul Vixie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "W.C.A. Wijngaards" References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> In-Reply-To: <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig317496A587613CA100EDF988" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:14:41 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig317496A587613CA100EDF988 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/18/2012 7:06 PM, W.C.A. Wijngaards wrote: > > this sounds very cool; is there an internet draft or tech note > > describing the protocol so that others may also implement this? > > It exists to bypass deep inspection firewalls, and it works. The plain= > DNS format as you would use over TCP, but then on an SSL connection, so= > its encrypted by SSLv3. Uses port number 443 (the https port, no other= > use of that protocol, but then, because of SSL the firewall should not > be able to tell). alas, DPI can tell the difference between HTTPS and TLS in a TCP/443 stream. (the Tor guys told me this.) > The SSL-certificates are there to make the SSL connection look legit to= > the firewall. The DNSSEC inside the DNS wireformat provides > authentication. > > There could be a technote or draft for it, but really: TCP-style-DNS > inside SSL for transport. That should tell enough for an implementatio= n? it's not enough. in particular, the order in which it's probed (compared to EDNS0 UDP, EDNS0 TCP, old style UDP, old style TCP) should be specified. the NS RRset gives no hint of the name server's capabilities. and the IETF definition of "interoperable" depends not just on independent implementations being able to talk to each other, but independent implementations both based on the same specification that can also talk to each other. --------------enig317496A587613CA100EDF988 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8XGhYACgkQ00k+8NKXq45+QgCgsFwJ8jiJ8B+weVIsYXmRDect G48An1NFvW4Fbto4fQwI/zdKtwm27zN6 =sqji -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig317496A587613CA100EDF988-- From nweaver@icsi.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 18 11:19:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECA921F871C for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1pej1jUoxGG for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rock.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (rock.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [192.150.186.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA0D21F86EA for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rock.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD062C4011; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ICSI.Berkeley.EDU Received: from rock.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (maihub.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id kBfQqj8s8G+j; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gala.icir.org (gala [192.150.187.49]) (Authenticated sender: nweaver) by rock.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Postfix) with ESMTP id A380F2C4006; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:25 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Nicholas Weaver In-Reply-To: <4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:19:25 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> To: Paul Vixie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Nicholas Weaver Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:19:28 -0000 On Jan 18, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > On 1/18/2012 7:06 PM, W.C.A. Wijngaards wrote: >>> this sounds very cool; is there an internet draft or tech note >>> describing the protocol so that others may also implement this? >>=20 >> It exists to bypass deep inspection firewalls, and it works. The = plain >> DNS format as you would use over TCP, but then on an SSL connection, = so >> its encrypted by SSLv3. Uses port number 443 (the https port, no = other >> use of that protocol, but then, because of SSL the firewall should = not >> be able to tell). >=20 > alas, DPI can tell the difference between HTTPS and TLS in a TCP/443 > stream. (the Tor guys told me this.) However, a DNS query over 443 CAN be made to look fully like HTTPS for = the purpose of traffic analysis, since the query can easily be = constructed in a URL with the results returned as an XML or JSON blob. An active adversary could probe the server and check, but the point is = probably to evade ignorant adversaries (misconfigurations), not active = censorship. From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Wed Jan 18 11:43:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4370511E809D for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:43:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T2-nfMLpMXpW for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (aetius.bortzmeyer.org [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fece:1902]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DBB11E80A5 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 487473AC2F; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:43:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EB60D1988BE; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:41:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:41:25 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Paul Vixie Message-ID: <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:43:11 -0000 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 07:14:27PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote a message of 74 lines which said: > in particular, the order in which it's probed (compared to EDNS0 > UDP, EDNS0 TCP, old style UDP, old style TCP) should be > specified. the NS RRset gives no hint of the name server's > capabilities. As far as I know, it is not intended to be "probed", Unbound does not attempt to use this feature with regular zone servers. It is supposed to be a fixed forwarder that you know and trust, specified in the configuration file (or via unbound-control), to "tunnel" DNS requests outside of China/EvilCorporationWithFirewall/France. From lconroy@insensate.co.uk Wed Jan 18 15:20:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE2011E80CC for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:20:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6WojLGaUk5Xb for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:20:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from insensate.co.uk (ghost.insensate.co.uk [213.152.49.121]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EAE11E80CD for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by insensate.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5F440A3F5; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:20:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at insensate.co.uk Received: from insensate.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (psyche.insensate.co.uk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2D1VFLxo+VWy; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:20:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by insensate.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB1440A3EA; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:20:40 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Lawrence Conroy In-Reply-To: <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:20:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> To: Stephane Bortzmeyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:20:44 -0000 On 18 Jan 2012, at 19:41, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 07:14:27PM +0000, > Paul Vixie wrote=20 > a message of 74 lines which said: >=20 >> in particular, the order in which it's probed (compared to EDNS0 >> UDP, EDNS0 TCP, old style UDP, old style TCP) should be >> specified. the NS RRset gives no hint of the name server's >> capabilities. >=20 > As far as I know, it is not intended to be "probed", Unbound does not > attempt to use this feature with regular zone servers. It is supposed > to be a fixed forwarder that you know and trust, specified in the > configuration file (or via unbound-control), to "tunnel" DNS requests > outside of China/EvilCorporationWithFirewall/France. To which I reply: Hi Stephane, folks, ... and, with today's SOPA/PIPA froth, outside of the US? Pity -- I had hoped that this was using the dns: URL and an XML format = had been defined for the response. [probe would be, I guess do the usual, and if that doesn't work, try = port 443 and a dns: URL (or try that first, then ...)] sigh. all the best, Lawrence= From tglassey@earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 10:32:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69F321F8571 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:32:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.355, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uy+KwZMwcsc for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA1521F851E for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:32:02 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=cDdLfNWVhxbjJmIqPRoMfddmZmXoRxJ+3u+QEngjyWd5pk9jGGd9sheIL+PA9vzz; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.180.133.66] (helo=[192.168.1.100]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1RrD4D-0008Uz-MG for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:32:01 -0500 Message-ID: <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:31:59 -0800 From: todd glassey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> X-Opacus-Archived: none X-Opacus-Archived: none X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 01b7a7e171bdf5911aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79754e1975085d92d0a85c5ef1fbeec5b0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.180.133.66 Subject: [DNSOP] Adding a DNS Record Type for LICENSE TO USE X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:32:02 -0000 This may not ultimately be the right place to do this but we from an operational standpoint need to come up with a method of providing a RIGHT TO USE statement to people using the DNS "publication system" for converting DNS addresses. This is critical to a number of things including criminal prosecution of spammers for fraud by wire and other copyright infringement claims globally. That said we have been working with a team of lawyers on just this subject to get some ideas from a legal standpoint how a lawyer would look at that process. What we came to is that the lookup process may need to be amended to support copyright disclosure for the records responded and that this is key to global copyright protection. In the interim we think a COPYRIGHT USE STATEMENT published as a TEXT type record may work for systems which use legacy packages to operate. Todd Glassey From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Mon Jan 30 06:10:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C0921F86B9 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:10:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.279, BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NewDAhFO+B6K for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F3721F86B7 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from Work-Laptop-2.local (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0UEAJcA000572; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:10:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [10.31.203.221] by Work-Laptop-2.local (PGP Universal service); Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:10:24 -0500 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Work-Laptop-2.local on Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:10:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:02:39 -0500 To: todd glassey From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Adding a DNS Record Type for LICENSE TO USE X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:10:52 -0000 At 10:31 -0800 1/28/12, todd glassey wrote: >In the interim we think a COPYRIGHT USE STATEMENT published as a TEXT >type record may work for systems which use legacy packages to operate. Do you mean like the response to these queries? $ dig ac. txt +short or $ dig at. txt +short and a handful of others? Beyond that, there is a process defined to add a new DNS RR type defined in BCP 42. >What we came to is that the lookup process may need to be amended to >support copyright disclosure for the records responded and that this is >key to global copyright protection. As far as altering the query-response mechanism to always include a copyright, the workload amounts to doing DNSSEC all over again. Adding a copyright to every response is akin to adding an digital signature to every response (set). Even though adding the text would be less of a strain than computing the signatures, alterations are needed to the basic algorithms (like my fav "RFC 1034/sec 4.3.2" + updates) which in turn means new code all around. (Starting with the 2004 release of the DNSSEC specs, it took about 6 years to get the root zone signed. Imagine trying to decide who the copyright holder is for the root zone!) This wouldn't be easy because the DNS just wasn't designed with legal restrictions in mind. Adding a set of requirements means some amount of re-engineering. And I'd add that this set of requirements might not be seen as universal. What I'm suggesting is that beyond adding TXT records in the apex of the zone defining anything is going to be a long hard road. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Jan 30 06:19:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C641121F856C for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:19:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.148, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cT2C7OmB3APL for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3003:2::4:11]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC8F21F8555 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 1486B1C0112 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 02F5D1C011C; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:9::4:163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04D61C0112 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2219:8::6:69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E63B38066 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:49 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120130141949.GA31215@nic.fr> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid X-Kernel: Linux 3.1.0-1-686-pae i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000125, version=1.1.5 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.6.353000, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.1.350677, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.30.140614 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_300_399 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CD 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Adding a DNS Record Type for LICENSE TO USE X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:19:51 -0000 On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:31:59AM -0800, todd glassey wrote a message of 26 lines which said: > This may not ultimately be the right place to do Recurring legal troll in the IETF, hijacking of an email thread and spurious request, all in one message. http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html (Thanks to JPM) From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Mon Jan 30 06:22:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1A921F8591 for ; 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Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:22:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:22:32 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Edward Lewis Message-ID: <20120130142232.GA31469@nic.fr> References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> <4F1702D0.5070509@redbarn.org> <4F17184E.9010202@nlnetlabs.nl> <3531_1326915108_4F171E24_3531_270331_1_4F171A13.6090306@redbarn.org> <20120118194125.GA15120@sources.org> <7AB1FC80-66CC-4930-B204-F5FE418D687D@insensate.co.uk> <4F243F1F.4060408@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid X-Kernel: Linux 3.1.0-1-686-pae i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.5 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.6.353000, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.1.350677, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.30.141215 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_300_399 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CD 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __URI_NO_PATH 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Adding a DNS Record Type for LICENSE TO USE X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:22:34 -0000 On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 09:02:39AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote a message of 49 lines which said: > What I'm suggesting is that beyond adding TXT records in the apex of > the zone defining anything is going to be a long hard road. DNS_Borat on Twitter suggested that for the glorious nation of .KZ, we may prefer the "1.2.+.rp.secret-wg.org. TXT" record. From fweimer@bfk.de Mon Jan 30 07:00:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCD521F86F6 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:00:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.083 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.083 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dJIkm9d3gGqd for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx01.bfk.de (mx01.bfk.de [193.227.124.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFF121F8575 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx00.int.bfk.de ([10.119.110.2]) by mx01.bfk.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1RrsiN-0005Yf-4Z; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:00:15 +0000 Received: by bfk.de with local id 1RrsiM-0001yk-Uz; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:00:14 +0000 From: Florian Weimer To: Stephane Bortzmeyer References: <20120118153350.GA8827@nic.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:00:14 +0000 Message-ID: <82boplgrr5.fsf@mid.bfk.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Data model and field names for DNS in JSON or XML X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:00:22 -0000 * Stephane Bortzmeyer: > I'm aware of draft-mohan-dns-query-xml, which partially solves my > problem (except I would like the RDATA to be structured as well, not a > blob of "hexadecimal data"). In this area, draft-levine-dnsextlang-00 might be helpful. --=20 Florian Weimer BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstra=DFe 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99