From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 2 08:55:11 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA05231 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h52CsiX10671 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:54:44 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h52CsiB10668 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:54:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA05217 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Moo3-0002is-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:52:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Moo2-0002io-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:52:54 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h52CreB10568; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:53:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4VNYTB16384 for ; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:34:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13741 for ; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19MFq9-00024C-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:32:45 -0400 Received: from cougar.icir.org ([192.150.187.76]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19MFq8-000249-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 19:32:44 -0400 Received: from cougar.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cougar.icir.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h4VNYMQ9019266; Sat, 31 May 2003 16:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from floyd@cougar.icir.org) Message-Id: <200305312334.h4VNYMQ9019266@cougar.icir.org> To: "Cottrell, Les" cc: imrg@ietf.org From: Sally Floyd Subject: Re: [IMRG] Measurement tool for bandwidth,one-way delay and loss? Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:34:22 -0700 Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I also have a web page that maintains pointers to some of these tools: http://www.icir.org/models/tools.html - Sally http://www.icir.org/floyd/ _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 2 22:16:04 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04371 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h532Fep14240 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:15:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h532FeB14237 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:15:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04362 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N1J5-0000yo-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:13:47 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N1J5-0000yl-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:13:47 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h532EIB14180; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:14:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h532DpB14158 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:13:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04339 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N1HM-0000yN-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:12:00 -0400 Received: from web11410.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.131.221]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N1HL-0000yJ-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:11:59 -0400 Message-ID: <20030603021346.54991.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.8.72.44] by web11410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:13:46 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Yeggy Easwaran To: imrg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20030531192323.76122.qmail@web11409.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1910502173-1054606426=:54424" Subject: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts & source routing? Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1910502173-1054606426=:54424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would like to know if there is any means to discover alternate routes on the internet between two hosts that are connected and maybe reroute the packets along an alternate route that is less lossy/congested or one that offers better bandwidth than the default route. How popular/feasible is source routing? Thanks a bunch --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1910502173-1054606426=:54424 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I would like to know if there is any means to discover alternate routes on the internet between two hosts that are connected and maybe reroute the packets along an alternate route that is less lossy/congested or one that offers better bandwidth than the default route. How popular/feasible is source routing?
 
 Thanks a bunch

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1910502173-1054606426=:54424-- _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 02:53:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21477 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h536rIw13354 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:53:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h536rHB13351 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:53:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21404 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N5dl-0002ZF-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:51:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N5dk-0002ZC-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:51:24 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h536qKB13300; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:52:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h536paB13255 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:51:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21360 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N5c7-0002Y5-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:49:43 -0400 Received: from smtp-102-tuesday.nerim.net ([62.4.16.102] helo=kraid.nerim.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N5c6-0002Y2-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:49:43 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.250] (asoule.net1.nerim.net [213.41.149.83]) by kraid.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1B640F9E; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:51:28 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:50:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts & source routing? From: Augustin Soule To: Yeggy Easwaran , IMRG Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030603021346.54991.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h536paB13256 Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by www1.ietf.org id h536qKB13300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h536rHB13351 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know any tools to discover alternate routes, but as far as I know source Routing is a very bad idea and normally a packet with such options has to be drop by every routers. "Source rooting is used in conjunction with a spoofed source address to re-direct packets to a hackers machine, getting around the problem of being unable to receive replies to packets with a forged source address when outside the target network." see http://www.zensecurity.co.uk/whatis/WhatIs.asp?URL=source%20rooting So source Routing is not very popular... Augutin Soule Le 3/06/03 4:13, « Yeggy Easwaran » a écrit : > I would like to know if there is any means to discover alternate routes on the > internet between two hosts that are connected and maybe reroute the packets > along an alternate route that is less lossy/congested or one that offers > better bandwidth than the default route. How popular/feasible is source > routing? > > Thanks a bunch > > > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search > - Faster. > Easier. Bingo. _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 03:39:03 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22215 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h537cZb17327 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537cZB17324 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22196 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Le-0002kq-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:36:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Ld-0002kn-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:36:45 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537c7B17306; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:38:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537buB17278 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:37:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22188 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6L1-0002kh-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:36:07 -0400 Received: from kc-msxproto2.kc.umkc.edu ([134.193.143.159]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6L0-0002ke-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:36:06 -0400 Received: from KC-MAIL4.kc.umkc.edu ([134.193.143.211] RDNS failed) by kc-msxproto2.kc.umkc.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:37:53 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts &source routing? Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 02:37:53 -0500 Message-ID: <5EF7D95E17BDAD4A968C812E5ABC390B01107FD9@KC-MAIL4.kc.umkc.edu> Thread-Topic: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts &source routing? Thread-Index: AcMpnMly5XEMLjTVRP+q25g9WXO2/AAADRdw From: "Ayyasamy, Senthilkumar (UMKC-Student)" To: "Augustin Soule" , "Yeggy Easwaran" , "IMRG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2003 07:37:53.0036 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A939CC0:01C329A3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h537buB17280 Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >far as I know source Routing is a very bad idea and normally >a packet with such options has to be drop by every routers. > >So source Routing is not very popular... not really... It depends on whether source routing is done at router or domain level. Domain level source routing delegates the control to the customer. Customer can choose the path depending on performance or whatever criteria. I can argue that traffic engineering is only beneficial for ISPs; whereas, domain level source routing provides a choice to customers (like multi homing) Their are lot of issues in domain level source routing.. esp: - incentive for ISP - route selection and discovery - addressing scheme. I am not telling something new. Their are bunch of old ( NIMROD, IDPR, estrin et all idr arch -SIGCOMM 92) and new (NIRA, feedback based routing) proposals supporting domain level source routing. They differ depending on route selection and addressing scheme. For example, NIRA does DSR by placing the heuristics in the address selection procedure. >> I would like to know if there is any means to discover >> alternate routes on the internet between two hosts that >> are connected Check Detour project/ Lixin Gao paper on path inflation. >> and maybe reroute the packets along an >> alternate route that is less lossy/congested or one >> that offers better bandwidth than the default route. This is a form of selfish routing. Their are some commerical products which supports this kind of smart routing. But, it helps only to select the first hop of the best route. I guess, their is atleast two works in SIGCOMM 03 which target the above two issues. _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 03:52:57 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22497 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h537qTx18123 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:52:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537qTB18120 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:52:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22488 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Z6-0002q1-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:50:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Z5-0002py-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:50:39 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537q5B18091; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:52:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h537pBB18003 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:51:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22446 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Xq-0002pB-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:49:22 -0400 Received: from poplar.cs.washington.edu ([128.95.2.24] ident=mail) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19N6Xp-0002p8-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:49:21 -0400 Received: from nspring by poplar.cs.washington.edu with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19N6ZS-0004Lz-00; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 00:51:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:51:02 -0700 From: Neil Spring To: Augustin Soule , Yeggy Easwaran Cc: IMRG Subject: Re: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts & source routing? Message-ID: <20030603075041.GA14078@cs.washington.edu> References: <20030603021346.54991.qmail@web11410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , For an idea of the feasibility of using source routing, see http://www.isi.edu/scan/mercator/mercator.ps.gz , pages 4 and 8. Not all routers in the Internet are source-route capable. In fact, only a small fraction (about 8%, see Section IV) support source routing. I'd copy more, but I'm lazy. The detail in section IV is worth reading. End hosts that use IP addresses for authentication are already on shaky ground; blocking source routed packets seems like an incomplete solution to the wrong problem. good luck, -neil On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:50:51AM +0200, Augustin Soule wrote: > I don't know any tools to discover alternate routes, but > as far as I know source Routing is a very bad idea and > normally a packet with such options has to be drop by > every routers. > "Source rooting is used in conjunction with a spoofed > source address to re-direct packets to a hackers machine, > getting around the problem of being unable to receive > replies to packets with a forged source address when > outside the target network." see > http://www.zensecurity.co.uk/whatis/WhatIs.asp?URL=source%20rooting > So source Routing is not very popular... > Augutin Soule > Le 3/06/03 4:13, ??Yeggy Easwaran?? a ?crit?: >> I would like to know if there is any means to discover alternate routes on the >> internet between two hosts that are connected and maybe reroute the packets >> along an alternate route that is less lossy/congested or one that offers >> better bandwidth than the default route. How popular/feasible is source >> routing? >> >> Thanks a bunch >> >> >> Do you Yahoo!? >> The New Yahoo! Search >> - Faster. >> Easier. Bingo. > _______________________________________________ > IMRG mailing list > IMRG@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 11:48:12 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11069 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h53FljB27068 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:47:45 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53FljB27065 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:47:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11036 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NDz1-0007Ti-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:45:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NDz0-0007Te-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:45:54 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53FkaB26978; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:46:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53FjBB26879 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:45:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10861 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NDwX-0007R9-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:43:21 -0400 Received: from h-135-207-24-16.research.att.com ([135.207.24.16] helo=linux.research.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NDwX-0007Qs-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:43:21 -0400 Received: from alice.research.att.com (akalice.research.att.com [135.207.26.22]) by linux.research.att.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53FlwEI016833; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:47:58 -0400 Received: (from jrex@localhost) by alice.research.att.com (SGI-8.9.3p2/8.8.7) id LAA88852; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200306031544.LAA88852@alice.research.att.com> X-Authentication-Warning: alice.research.att.com: jrex set sender to jrex@alice.research.att.com using -f From: Jennifer Rexford To: saq66@umkc.edu CC: asoule@freesurf.fr, yeggyb@yahoo.com, imrg@ietf.org In-reply-to: <5EF7D95E17BDAD4A968C812E5ABC390B01107FD9@KC-MAIL4.kc.umkc.edu> (saq66@umkc.edu) Subject: Re: [IMRG] Discovering alternate routes between two hosts &source routing? References: <5EF7D95E17BDAD4A968C812E5ABC390B01107FD9@KC-MAIL4.kc.umkc.edu> Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > It depends on whether source routing is done at router or domain > level. Domain level source routing delegates the control to the > customer. Customer can choose the path depending on performance or > whatever criteria. I can argue that traffic engineering is only > beneficial for ISPs; whereas, domain level source routing provides a > choice to customers (like multi homing) True, though I wouldn't call this "domain-level source routing" since the customer can only pick the first AS hop -- which upstream provider they use to carry the traffic. As such, this is more of a load-balancing technique that controls which path (of a small set of paths, beyond the customer's control) is used to carry the traffic. The customer can't control what the second, third, etc. AS is used along the path. -- Jen _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 16:11:42 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23166 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h53KBFN24956 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:11:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53KBFB24953 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:11:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23124 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NI5z-0002Rq-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:09:23 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NI5z-0002Rn-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:09:23 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53KAfB24862; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:10:41 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53K96B24797 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:09:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23051 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NI3v-0002QS-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:07:15 -0400 Received: from sanmateo-nat-144.routescience.com ([64.254.174.144] helo=taxi.routescience.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NI3u-0002QG-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:07:14 -0400 Received: from routescience.com (ssf-vpn-nat-5.routescience.com [192.168.0.85]) by taxi.routescience.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h53K8Wsf017891 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EDD003A.80207@routescience.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:08:26 -0700 From: Mike Lloyd User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: imrg@ietf.org References: <20030603160004.28081.82783.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <20030603160004.28081.82783.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [IMRG] Re: Discovering alternate routes between two hosts & source routing? Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeggy, Yeggy Easwaran wrote: > I would like to know if there is any means to discover > alternate routes on the internet between two hosts that are > connected and maybe reroute the packets along an alternate > route that is less lossy/congested or one that offers better > bandwidth than the default route. How popular/feasible is > source routing? Thanks a bunch I make technology for problems of this sort. As others have observed, the available products for this tend to focus on the boundary of a single autonomous system. There are economic reasons for this, but in the context of this list, there are also pragmatic, network-based reasons. As others have said, source routing is not generally welcome for end to end control of routed paths through other peoples' networks. If you're interested in network paths where source routing is viable, great, but few people are. In general, what we've learned is that it's very beneficial to design your measurement technique and control technique to operate together, and in (roughly) the same place. For example, one great choke-point to look at is where you hook up to your ISPs. Sending packets up the various wires can be shown to have a great deal of impact on the end to end path, and hence on end to last mile path characteristics. I don't want to belabour the marketing point, though. I'm just suggesting that, as you think about this kind of rerouting, it's a good idea to first identify where in a network you can find a powerful control point. (It's attractive to imagine every hop in the network doing this, but that's extremely hard, not least for flap control, loop suppression, etc, etc.) Once you've found a control point, you need to measure alternate routes; as noted, source routing can sometimes be used, but doesn't cover many cases. As a result, you probably need a specially configured measurement technique that avoids existing routing. Here again, the edge of an autonomous system is a good default choice - there's a limited number of choices to measure. The configuration change is not altogether trivial, which is another reason to limit the number of control points you look at. Hope this helps shed at least some light Mike Lloyd CTO, RouteScience _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 3 16:52:32 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24144 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h53Kq6o27752 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:52:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53Kq6B27749 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:52:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24135 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NIjW-0002fq-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:50:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NIjW-0002fn-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:50:14 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53Kp7B27718; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:51:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h53KooB27699 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:50:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24117 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NIiI-0002fQ-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:48:59 -0400 Received: from nan-smtp-05.noos.net ([212.198.2.74] helo=smtp.noos.fr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19NIiI-0002fF-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:48:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 1415785 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2003 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Perse1) ([212.198.205.203]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Jun 2003 20:31:48 -0000 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Kave_Salamatian?= To: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:30:31 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: <3EDD003A.80207@routescience.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [IMRG] Intimate 2003 call for participation Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of interest for the measurement community. Call for Participation! INTIMATE 2003 (INternet TraffIc MAtrices Estimation) Paris, France http://adonis.lip6.fr/intimate2003/ The INTIMATE (INternet TraffIc MAtrices Estimation) workshop will be be held in Paris in June 16 and 17th, 2003. INTIMATE Workshop is focused on traffic matrices estimation techniques. The idea behind this workshop is to bring together people working, not just generally in network tomography, but more specifically on traffic matrices. Because traffic matrices are the input to most traffic engineering applications, this area is very important to carriers and ISPs. Recent research has revealed that this problem area is rich and raises a variety of challenging technical difficulties for researchers. The goal of this workshop is to provide a forum for researchers to carry on detailed discussions while sharing ideas and problems. This workshop is by invitation only and will be limited to approximately 50 people in order to keep it small so that much discussion can take place. At least 2 major tier-1 ISPs (Sprint, AT&T) and one historical European telco (FT) will participate providing their perspective on applications and needs. It will be a 2-day workshop with 2 panels and a series of invited talks. We will cover the following topics: . Statistical and non-statistical estimation methods . Methods for generating good starting points for estimation . Stationary and non-stationary traffic matrices, temporal issues . Validation Methods and Problems . Modeling Assumptions . Scalability Issues for Estimation and Validation . Applications . Impact of errors in traffic matrix estimation on traffic We have actually up to 14 invited speakers among the most renown networking researchers. We target an attendance level of 50 participants. Registration is open NOW. Please make hotel reservations as soon as possible. Kave Salamatian Local organiser of INTIMATE workshop _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jun 13 14:38:07 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17688 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5DIbdM02517 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:37:39 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (lists.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DIbam01847 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:37:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17474 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QtOX-0000HF-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:35:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QtOW-0000HB-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:35:24 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DHq2a03342; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:52:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (lists.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DHpbm03050 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:51:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15571 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qsg2-0007eU-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:49:26 -0400 Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.175.60]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qsg1-0007dh-00 for imrg@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:49:25 -0400 Message-ID: <20030613175043.37757.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.95.33.18] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:50:43 CEST Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:50:43 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Fehmi?= To: imrg@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [IMRG] About trace_cwin option Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by www1.ietf.org id h5DHq2a03342 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www1.ietf.org id h5DIbam01847 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I enabled trace_cwin (freebsd) and i wonder if there any releated tool to do an analysis for the trace given . Thanks a lot ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Jun 29 21:48:45 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12940 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5U1mHl30475 for imrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19WnmD-0007vS-6P for imrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12910 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19WnmA-0001qx-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Wnm4-0001qp-00 for imrg-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Wnlx-0007tz-1c; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:48:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Wnla-0007tH-4L for imrg@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:47:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12893 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: gdavino1@hotmail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19WnlX-0001qE-00 for Imrg@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:47:35 -0400 Received: from cpe-024-211-147-242.nc.rr.com ([24.211.147.242] helo=XP) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19WnlK-0001p4-00 for Imrg@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:47:22 -0400 To: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:47:10 --0400 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_33EA5F15" Message-Id: Subject: [IMRG] Re: Movie Sender: imrg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: imrg-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: imrg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Measurement Research Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multipart message in MIME format --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_33EA5F15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on ietf-mx) Found virus WORM_SOBIG.E in file details.pif (in your_details.zip) The uncleanable file your_details.zip is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/virYHABnaasm. --------------------------------------------------------- --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_33EA5F15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please see the attached zip file for details. --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_33EA5F15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on ietf-mx) your_details.zip is removed from here because it contains a virus. --------------------------------------------------------- --CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_33EA5F15-- _______________________________________________ IMRG mailing list IMRG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imrg