From nobody Fri Nov 3 09:13:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2541B13FED7 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eEcmgggu3pI8 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 09:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6165313FEB9 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 09:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: 86.74.48.129 Received: from [192.168.1.44] (129.48.74.86.rev.sfr.net [86.74.48.129]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FF43FB883 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 17:13:47 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 17:13:45 +0100 To: lp-wan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Call next Tuesday, November 7th X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 16:13:52 -0000 Dear all, We have our last interim call next week (November 7th). A little ahead = of IETF 100, this is the right place to prepare the meeting, and maybe = treat some of the questions you would like and would not have enough = time during the plenary.=20 Do you have any items you would like to present during the next call? The Chairs From nobody Mon Nov 6 01:38:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB7213F963 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 01:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xj0qN2szHHEc for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 01:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD00013FB83 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 01:38:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4220; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1509961095; x=1511170695; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=7iQi7SFlX3Gv2d8zohMAOrW9clUFCneXg/kIumTMrMU=; b=GpPk4G0GCKvBEMZgapYlraIIbzsTtlNzVmVJkMC3306zjkFKb4lk6TJj Ec6ZFcoG8jqETFkLl0/tru6+PMmtIE8zcTTkVZuQIPpF3rXeu5dqeqpuz E7y3iew9nniw61BJXXnmeivpdtOsz7feAXaF4Liubbq9Vr+0JrPELgTI4 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CbAACQLABa/49dJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgkRwZG4ujhWPGZJ8hUYQggEKI4l4PxgBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIVSXgG?= =?us-ascii?q?BACYBBBuJN2QQrROLBgEBAQEGAQEBAQEBHQWDLoIHgVOJbIYvBZkGiQgCgW2Fd?= =?us-ascii?q?40Ngh6GA4scjGGJCAIRGQGBOAEfOIFsehWDLoRei3qBEQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.44,351,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="27287749" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Nov 2017 09:38:15 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vA69cFCZ031416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:38:15 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 03:38:14 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 03:38:14 -0600 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: lp-wan Thread-Topic: Agenda for Interim meeting (tomorrow, November 7th) Thread-Index: AdNW4soYFSx2EvQvTUu6KLD8uFn8/g== Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:38:13 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.18] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c828fbf4481c4bd18d21ef8889ea39aaXCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Agenda for Interim meeting (tomorrow, November 7th) X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 09:38:17 -0000 --_000_c828fbf4481c4bd18d21ef8889ea39aaXCHRCD001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, The updated version of the Agenda for the Interim Meeting tomorrow (Novembe= r 7th) is now on the datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-i= nterim-2017-lpwan-11-lpwan-01/ We will be focusing on the prep of the IETF meeting. If you are talking in = Singapore please attend the interim. Also, we'll continue the exchange on t= he fragmentation corner cases. The call details can be found in the Agenda. See you tomorrow! Best, The Chairs --_000_c828fbf4481c4bd18d21ef8889ea39aaXCHRCD001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

The updated version of the Agenda for the Interim= Meeting tomorrow (November 7th) is now on the datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/agenda-interim-2017-lpwan-11-lpwan-01/

 

We will be focusing on the prep of the IETF meeti= ng. If you are talking in Singapore please attend the interim. Also, weR= 17;ll continue the exchange on the fragmentation corner cases.

 

The call details can be found in the Agenda.=

 

See you tomorrow!

 

Best,

The Chairs

 

--_000_c828fbf4481c4bd18d21ef8889ea39aaXCHRCD001ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 6 10:29:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133F113FC5E for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:29:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efPx8yaRMEAs for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from dash.upc.es (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A0F813FC4D for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from entelserver.upc.edu (entelserver.upc.es [147.83.39.4]) by dash.upc.es (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id vA6ITDHJ049287; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 19:29:13 +0100 Received: from webmail.entel.upc.edu (webmail.entel.upc.edu [147.83.39.6]) by entelserver.upc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A515D1D53C1; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 19:29:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from 79.154.87.43 by webmail.entel.upc.edu with HTTP; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 19:29:04 +0100 Message-ID: <297ba66dd68048e27601f6ef8b65bb7b.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 19:29:04 +0100 From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" To: "Laurent Toutain" Cc: "Juan Carlos Zuniga" , "lp-wan@ietf.org" , "carlesgo@entel.upc.edu" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-1.fc14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at dash X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 23:19:20 by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]); Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:29:14 +0100 (CET) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] Problem with downlink fragmentation (and proposed solution) X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:29:21 -0000 Hi Laurent, Thanks a lot for the great figures! I have two comments, and then I copy the text I propose for describing the ACK retry mechanism (for downlink fragmentation, ACK Always). Comments: - With regard to your last figure, as per Alexander's proposal, the last two ACK transmissions would not be needed (please see the last paragraph in my proposed text, which should hopefully capture Alexander's proposal). - I understand a fragment may be temporarily buffered in some element (e.g. the NGW as you indicate), but it may depend also on the underlying LPWAN technology. For example, buffering may happen at the entity performing fragmentation itself (or there may be other possibilities). Proposed description of the ACK retry mechanism (to be added in section 5.8, after the currently existing paragraph): For fragmented packet transmission in the downlink, and when ACK Always is used, the fragment receiver MAY support timer-based ACK retransmission. In this mechanism, the fragment receiver initializes and starts a timer (denoted "ACK Retry timer") after the transmission of an ACK, except when the ACK is sent in response to the last fragment of a packet. In the latter case, the fragment receiver does not start a timer after transmission of the ACK. If, after transmission of an ACK that is not a response to the last fragment of the packet, and before expiration of the corresponding ACK Retry timer, the fragment receiver receives a fragment that belongs to the next window, the ACK Retry timer for the ACK is stopped. However, if the ACK Retry timer expires, the ACK is resent and the ACK Retry timer is reinitialized and restarted. The default initial value for the ACK Retry timer, as well as the maximum number of retries for a specific ACK, denoted MAX_ACK_RETRIES, are not defined in this document, and need to be defined in other documents (e.g. technology-specific profiles). The initial value of the ACK Retry timer is expected to be greater than that of the ACK Always timer, in order to make sure that a (buffered) fragment to be retransmitted can find an opportunity for that transmission. When the fragment sender transmits the last fragment of a packet, it initializes and starts its retransmission timer (ACK Always timer) to a long value (e.g. several times the initial ACK Retry timer). If an ACK is received before expiration of this timer, the fragment sender retransmits any lost fragments reported by the ACK, or if the ACK confirms successful reception of all fragments of the last window, transmission of the fragmented packet ends. If the timer expires, and no ACK has been received since the start of the timer, the fragment sender assumes that the last fragment has been successfully received (and possibly, the last ACK has been lost: this mechanism assumes that the ACK Always timer for the last fragment is long enough to allow several ACK retries if the last fragment has not been received by the fragment receiver, and it also assumes that it is unlikely that several ACKs become all lost). Cheers, Carles > Hi Carles, > > Thank you to raise this element for the FSM. > As we discussed yesterday, I think we can solve the problem with only on > Downlink message at the time and then generalize if with a special uplink > request. I will also reverse the scenario it is easier for me (uplink from > the left to the right). > > A exchange without losses looks like that: > > D Network > | | > DL request |-------------------->| > Wbitmap |<--------------------| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=1; FCN=0; data > BM=11 |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=1; FCN=0; data > BM=11 |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=0; FCN=1; data > BM=01 |-------------------->| > > > > if a all-0 is lost: > > D Network > | | > DL request |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 |-------------------->| > | | x------------| W=1; FCN=0; data > | | | | > | | | | > | | | v > | | H W=1; FCN=0; data > v | H > BM=01 |-------------------->H ignored since w is wrong > |<--------------------| > > > > The sender timer expire, the frag is sent again but blocked by the NGW. > In > any case, we can say that the device expect data since it has not received > FCN=1. The device must send a UL to get it. Timer must be higher than the > one used by the fragmenter. > > If bitmap is lost (the FSM states are shown: on the left hand-side which > window is expected, and in the right hand-side which is the current > window). > > D Network > expect| | current window > v| | v > DL request 0|-------------------->| 0| > 0|<--------------------| 0| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 1|-------------------->| ---------------------- > 1|<--------------------| 1| W=1; FCN=0; data > BM=11 0|----------X | 1| | > | 0| | 1| | > | 0| | 1| | > | 0| | 1| | > | 0| | 1| | > | 0| | 1| v > | 0| H 1| W=1; FCN=0; data > v 0| H 1| > BM=11 0|-------------------->H ------------- > ignore w==1 0|<--------------------H 0| frag is NGW sent > BM=11 0|-------------------->| 0| W==1; ignored > 1|<--------------------| 0| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 1|-------------------->| ------------- > > In that case, the fragmentation side sends again the frag, which is > buffered in the NGW. > Then the receiver timer expires which triggers the bitmap retransmission. > > > For an All-1 lost, the scenario is almost the same, the receivers knows > that all fragmentation > ends with an All-1. So the same timer in the receiver side can be used to > request a DL transmission > > > D Network > | | > DL request |-------------------->| > |<--------------------| W=0; FCN=0; data > BM=01 |-------------------->| > | | x------------| W=1; FCN=1; data > | | | | > | | | | > | | | v > | | H W=1; FCN=1; data > v | H > BM=01 |-------------------->H ignored since w is wrong > |<--------------------H > BM=11 |-------------------->| end > > > if the bitmap is lost, it is more complex, I don't remember clearly Alex's > proposal. The problem is that the > receiver state machine considers that the transmission is over, and I > don't > see why it should send > again the bitmap to be sure that the sender has received it. > > 1|<--------------------| 1| W=1; FCN=1; data > BM=11 e|----------X | 1| | > | e| | 1| | > | e| | 1| | > | e| | 1| | > | e| | 1| | > | e| | 1| v > | e| H 1| W=1; FCN=1; data > v e| H 1| > BM=11 e|-------------------->H e > e|<--------------------H e > e|-------------------->| e > e| | e > > Laurent > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Juan Carlos Zuniga < > juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com> wrote: > >> Hi Carles, >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: lp-wan [mailto:lp-wan-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carles >> Gomez >> > Montenegro >> > Sent: October 4, 2017 3:20 AM >> > To: lp-wan@ietf.org >> > Subject: [lp-wan] Problem with downlink fragmentation (and proposed >> > solution) >> > >> > Dear LPWANners, >> > >> > I would like to report a possible problem with downlink fragmentation >> in >> > Window mode - ACK Always, and a possible solution for it. >> > >> > The problem >> > *********** >> > >> > Let us assume *downlink* transmission of an IPv6 packet that requires >> > fragmentation, and ACK Always mode. Recall that in some LPWAN >> > technologies and scenarios, a number of downlink transmissions can >> only >> be >> > performed after reception of an uplink frame that allows the >> opportunity >> for >> > downlink transmissions. >> > >> > As an example, let us assume a window size of 4 fragments is used (and >> > supported by the lower layer technology as well), and an IPv6 packet >> that >> > requires 6 fragments to be carried. In the example, after an uplink >> frame that >> > triggers transmission in the downlink, the first 4 fragments are >> transmitted >> > and successfully delivered to the receiver. Since ACK Always is used, >> an >> ACK is >> > sent by the receiver (to confirm that all those first 4 fragments were >> > successfully received). But the ACK is lost. >> > >> > If the ACK is lost, the ACK Always timer will expire and the sender >> will >> > attempt a retry of the last fragment sent (as a way to request the >> ACK). >> > However, since transmission of the fragments is in the downlink, such >> retry >> > will not be possible without an uplink frame transmission that allows >> the >> > opportunity to transmit further downlink frames: >> > >> > ----> downlink >> > <---- uplink >> > >> > Sender Receiver >> > |<-- trigger UL ------| >> > |-----W=0, FCN=3----->| >> > |-----W=0, FCN=2----->| >> > |-----W=0, FCN=1----->| >> > |-----W=0, FCN=0----->| >> > lost |<--X--ACK, W=1-------|no bitmap >> > (*) |-----W=0, FCN=0----->| >> > >> > (*) This fragment should be (re)sent, but it will not be possible >> > without a previous uplink frame >> > >> > At this point, i.e. after loss of the ACK, fragmented IPv6 packet >> transmission >> > would stall as per the current SCHC draft. Something similar would >> happen if >> > some of the fragments had been lost and the ACK (with a >> > bitmap) was lost. >> > >> [JCZ] True. This would be a problem >> >> > >> > Possible solution >> > ***************** >> > >> > A possible solution to the above problem would be to allow the >> receiver >> to >> > resend the ACK after some time without receiving further fragments. In >> fact, >> > the receiver can tell that the packet transmission has not finished at >> the >> > moment of transmission of the ACK, since it has not received yet the >> "all-1" >> > fragment (FCN=2^N-1, e.g. FCN=7 in the example). >> > >> > This means adding a timer at the receiver for downlink fragment >> > transmission (possibly as an optional feature). >> > >> > What does the WG think about adding this feature to the SCHC draft? >> > >> > Do you see other approaches to solve the above mentioned problem? >> >> [JCZ] I think that the proposed solution makes sense and it is a minor >> change to the current spec. >> The specific timer value could be defined in an eventual SCHC-over-foo >> document. >> >> Best, >> >> Juan Carlos >> >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Carles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > lp-wan mailing list >> > lp-wan@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lp-wan mailing list >> lp-wan@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan >> > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > From nobody Tue Nov 7 05:29:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A9313FE72 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 05:29:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eweQgEiHg_vu for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 05:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (relay5-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0775B13FE6C for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 05:29:09 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 192.44.77.209 Received: from el-meco.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (nat-asr-incub-b209.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.209]) (Authenticated sender: ana@ackl.io) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71C1741C08A; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 14:29:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ana Minaburo Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_71FFA9EA-CBA6-4C37-9F8C-7A13519EBA68" Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 14:29:04 +0100 Message-Id: <7B11DAF3-1599-4F08-81C1-5D56A5085A8C@ackl.io> Cc: lp-wan To: Juan Carlos Zuniga , Carles Gomez Montenegro , Laurent Toutain , Ivaylo Petrov , Alper Yegin Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Feedback on your draft-SCHC over-your technology X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 13:29:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_71FFA9EA-CBA6-4C37-9F8C-7A13519EBA68 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello, I=E2=80=99ve read your drafts, I thanks for this first input, I think it = will give the next step for the working group. I was wondering if you = will need some input about the things the SCHC specification leaves open = to the different documents like yours. I create a non exhaustive list of things that may be important to be = defined in your document: - In the architecture explain the SCHC entities, how they will be = represented in the corresponding technology architecture. - How to learn the context - Size of the Rule id - The way the Rule id is sent (L2 or L3) and how, describe - Use of padding and how and when to use it - Fragmentation delivery reliability option used over your technology = and why - Define the MAX_ACK_REQUEST - define the number of bits of: Rule-id, FCN (N) and DTag (T) - Take into account that the length of rule-id+N+T + W=3D R and if = possible is good to have a multiple of 8 bits to complete a byte and = avoid padding - In the ACK format perhaps the idea of 1 byte length for Rule-ID = + T + W bit to do optimisation more easily - The algorithm to be used for the MIC - The timer size for Fragmentation ACK always - When to abort in ACK always - MAX_ATTEMPS counter size - In ACK on error the timer size between windows - The L2 CRC used to increase reliability At least these are the things that the = draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07 leaves to be defined in this = kind of documents Cheers Ana =20 Ana Minaburo Research Division Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14 ana at ackl.io 2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie 35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9=20 France=20 www.acklio.com --Apple-Mail=_71FFA9EA-CBA6-4C37-9F8C-7A13519EBA68 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C2CCC7D7-58F7-4D47-9539-0DD97A066E54" --Apple-Mail=_C2CCC7D7-58F7-4D47-9539-0DD97A066E54 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hello,

I=E2=80=99ve read your drafts, I thanks = for this first input, I think it will give the next step for the working = group. I was wondering if you will need some input about the things the = SCHC specification leaves open to the different documents like = yours.

I = create a non exhaustive list of things that may be important to be = defined in your document:

- In the architecture explain the SCHC entities, how they = will be represented in the corresponding technology = architecture.
- How to learn the context
- Size of the Rule id
- The way the Rule = id is sent (L2 or L3) and how, describe
- Use of = padding and how and when to use it
- Fragmentation = delivery reliability option used over your technology and why
- Define the MAX_ACK_REQUEST
- define = the number of bits of: Rule-id, FCN (N) and DTag (T)
      - Take into account that the length of = rule-id+N+T + W=3D R and if possible is good to have a multiple of 8 = bits to complete a byte and avoid padding
  =     - In the ACK format perhaps the idea of 1 byte length for = Rule-ID + T + W bit to do optimisation more easily
- = The algorithm to be used for the MIC
- The timer = size for Fragmentation ACK always
- When to abort = in ACK always
- MAX_ATTEMPS counter size
- In ACK on error the timer size between windows
- The L2 CRC used to increase reliability

At least these are the = things that the draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07 leaves = to be defined in this kind of documents

Cheers
Ana


  =  

Ana = Minaburo

Research = Division

Phone: +33 = (0)2.99.12.24.14
ana at ackl.io

2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie
35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9 
France 

www.acklio.com


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lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EF313FB17 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 06:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BIc7HwI9UoBt for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 06:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B613113FE9C for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 06:06:02 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 192.44.77.209 Received: from el-meco.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (nat-asr-incub-b209.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.209]) (Authenticated sender: ana@ackl.io) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56B6BFB8E2; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 15:06:00 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DD8DA6B0-2272-4DDD-AD45-C9D7F045F764" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Ana Minaburo In-Reply-To: <32611_1509254615_59F565D7_32611_481_1_D61B234F.4AA51%dominique.barthel@orange.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 15:05:59 +0100 Cc: "lp-wan@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: <150920585846.2564.1845133964277806472.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <32611_1509254615_59F565D7_32611_481_1_D61B234F.4AA51%dominique.barthel@orange.com> To: BARTHEL Dominique IMT/OLPS , Laurent Toutain , Arun X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] New Version Notification for draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00.txt X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 14:06:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DD8DA6B0-2272-4DDD-AD45-C9D7F045F764 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello, I=E2=80=99ve read your draft, just to perhaps answer to some of yours = TODO questions: In 4.1 you say first that : "TODO: This assumes that all ports that the Device listens to will be matched by a SCHC rule. Is this the basic assumption of SCHC that all packets that do not match a rule are rejected? If yes, why do have fragmentation also for uncompressed packets?" Well, the last version of SCHC draft has changed and now we have = in section 4.3=20 " If no eligible rule is found, then the header must be sent without compression, in which case the fragmentation process must be required.=E2=80=9D So the packets are not rejected they are not compressed but = fragmentation is used to sent=20 them. "TODO: discuss the various Type/Code that are expected to be generated in response to various errors.=E2=80=9D Are you planning to create a discussion group to go froward with = this draft? In 4.2.1 "TODO: how does one know that the "payload" of a = compressed-header packet is in fact another compressed header?=E2=80=9D This is avery good point to take it out in the WG meetings and ML, = I think we have not=20 discussed about this possibility. Nevertheless this could happen when = the compression allows to reduce the size of the packet in order to have = more than one complete compressed packets in one=20 L2 frame. In this case the payload is not only a payload but another = datagram. For the moment=20 the draft does not limit the number of compressed datagrams in a L2 = frame. Perhaps an specific=20 Rule_id that indicates that there are more than one datagram with the = length, this is only one=20 idea that need to be discussed See you Ana =20 Ana Minaburo Research Division Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14 ana at ackl.io 2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie 35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9=20 France=20 www.acklio.com > On 29 Oct 2017, at 06:23, dominique.barthel@orange.com wrote: >=20 > Dear LPWANers >=20 > This is to let you know that we have submitted a new draft regarding = the > use of ICMPv6 error messages and Echo Request/Reply in LPWANs. > This is very preliminary draft discusses proxying the Device at the > infrastructure level and/or compressing the above-mentioned headers = using > SCHC. > It will be presented at our meeting in Singapore. > Feel free to comment on the mailing list in the meantime. > Best regards >=20 > Dominique >=20 > Le 28/10/17 17:50, =C2=AB internet-drafts@ietf.org =C2=BB = > a =C3=A9crit : >=20 >>=20 >> A new version of I-D, draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Dominique Barthel and posted to = the >> IETF repository. >>=20 >> Name: draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc >> Revision: 00 >> Title: LPWAN Static Context Header Compression (SCHC) = for ICMPv6 >> Document date: 2017-10-28 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 12 >> URL: =20 >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00.txt >> Status: =20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc/ >> Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00 >> Htmlized: =20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00 >>=20 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> ICMPv6 is a companion protocol to IPv6. It defines messages that >> inform the source of IPv6 packets of errors during packet delivery. >> It also defines the Echo Request/Reply messages that are used for >> basic network troubleshooting (ping command). ICMPv6 messages are >> transported on IPv6. >>=20 >> This document describes how to adapt ICMPv6 to Low Power Wide Area >> Networks (LPWANs) by compressing ICMPv6/IPv6 headers and by >> protecting the LPWAN network and the Device from undesirable ICMPv6 >> traffic. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan --Apple-Mail=_DD8DA6B0-2272-4DDD-AD45-C9D7F045F764 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_95501D69-1FAA-47BB-ADE3-EBC9B2735288" --Apple-Mail=_95501D69-1FAA-47BB-ADE3-EBC9B2735288 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hello,

I=E2=80=99ve read your draft, just to = perhaps answer to some of yours TODO questions:

In 4.1 you say first that :
"TODO: This assumes that all ports that the =
Device listens to will be
   matched by a SCHC rule.  Is this the basic assumption of SCHC that
   all packets that do not match a rule are rejected?  If yes, why do
   have fragmentation also for uncompressed packets?"

<Ana> Well, the last version of =
SCHC draft has changed and now we have in section 4.3 
      " If no =
eligible rule is found,
      then the =
header must be sent without compression, in which case
      the fragmentation process must be required.=E2=80=9D
      So the packets are not rejected they are not compressed but =
fragmentation is used to sent 
      =
them.

"TODO: discuss the various Type/Code that are expected to be generated
   in response to various errors.=E2=80=9D
<Ana> Are =
you planning to create a discussion group to go froward with this =
draft?

In 4.2.1 "TODO: how does one know that =
the "payload" of a compressed-header
   packet is in =
fact another compressed header?=E2=80=9D

<Ana> This is avery good point to take it =
out in the WG meetings and ML, I think we have not 
discussed about this possibility. Nevertheless this could happen =
when the compression allows to reduce the size of the packet in order to =
have more than one complete compressed packets in one 
L2 frame. In this case the payload is not only a payload but another =
datagram. For the moment 
the draft does not limit the =
number of compressed datagrams in a L2 frame. Perhaps an =
specific 
Rule_id that indicates that there are more than one datagram =
with the length, this is only one 
idea that need to be =
discussed


See you
Ana



  =  

Ana = Minaburo

Research = Division

Phone: +33 = (0)2.99.12.24.14
ana at ackl.io

2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie
35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9 
France 

www.acklio.com


On 29 Oct 2017, at 06:23, dominique.barthel@orange.com wrote:

Dear = LPWANers

This is to let you know that we = have submitted a new draft regarding the
use of ICMPv6 = error messages and Echo Request/Reply in LPWANs.
This is = very preliminary draft discusses proxying the Device at the
infrastructure level and/or compressing the above-mentioned = headers using
SCHC.
It will be presented at = our meeting in Singapore.
Feel free to comment on the = mailing list in the meantime.
Best regards
Dominique

Le 28/10/17 17:50, =C2=AB= internet-drafts@ietf.org =C2=BB <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
a =C3=A9crit = :


A new version of I-D, draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Dominique Barthel and = posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: = = draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc
Revision: 00
Title:= = LPWAN Static Context Header Compression (SCHC) for ICMPv6
Document date: 2017-10-28
Group:= = Individual Submission
Pages: 12
URL: =            
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc-= 00.txt
Status: =         
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc/
Htmlized: =       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bart= hel-icmpv6-schc-00
Htmlized: =       
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-barthel-icmpv6-schc= -00


Abstract:
=  ICMPv6 is a companion protocol to IPv6.  It defines messages = that
 inform the source of IPv6 packets of errors = during packet delivery.
 It also defines the Echo = Request/Reply messages that are used for
 basic = network troubleshooting (ping command).  ICMPv6 messages are
 transported on IPv6.

=  This document describes how to adapt ICMPv6 to Low Power Wide = Area
 Networks (LPWANs) by compressing ICMPv6/IPv6 = headers and by
 protecting the LPWAN network and the = Device from undesirable ICMPv6
 traffic.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of
submission
until the htmlized = version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



_______________________________________________________________= __________________________________________________________

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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce = message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

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_______________________________________________
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16:30:44 +0100 (CET) X-Originating-IP: 209.85.217.178 Received: from mail-ua0-f178.google.com (mail-ua0-f178.google.com [209.85.217.178]) (Authenticated sender: ivaylo@ackl.io) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9C3CCC5A4F for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 16:30:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-ua0-f178.google.com with SMTP id v27so9102938uav.7 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 07:30:34 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUKsEYYBEwyNFDee9NPlYFoT5reBS7p1uQec6amoIlsQ19jqR9r gVaA56w+AUSgqnIxg9aK/u6jYogiy4H1JMGAi0M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Rnk404hIQvMwERUB3FR3ranafLgZM80zYKozBsYa+tFQesU3wUKUtQphbsSyJes3wQh6+K2WhamDZF5g2tccY= X-Received: by 10.176.90.14 with SMTP id l14mr15171939uad.180.1510068633295; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 07:30:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.16.208 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 07:29:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7B11DAF3-1599-4F08-81C1-5D56A5085A8C@ackl.io> References: <7B11DAF3-1599-4F08-81C1-5D56A5085A8C@ackl.io> From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 16:29:52 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Ana Minaburo Cc: Juan Carlos Zuniga , Carles Gomez Montenegro , Laurent Toutain , Alper Yegin , lp-wan Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="001a114526d479a4e0055d6640aa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] Feedback on your draft-SCHC over-your technology X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:03:13 -0000 --001a114526d479a4e0055d6640aa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114526d479a4dd055d6640a9" --001a114526d479a4dd055d6640a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ana, Thanks for all the useful information! Cheers Ivaylo Ivaylo Petrov ivaylo at ackl.io www.ackl.io 2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie, 35510 Cesson S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9 FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14 2017-11-07 14:29 GMT+01:00 Ana Minaburo : > Hello, > > I=E2=80=99ve read your drafts, I thanks for this first input, I think it = will give > the next step for the working group. I was wondering if you will need som= e > input about the things the SCHC specification leaves open to the differen= t > documents like yours. > > I create a non exhaustive list of things that may be important to be > defined in your document: > > - In the architecture explain the SCHC entities, how they will be > represented in the corresponding technology architecture. > - How to learn the context > - Size of the Rule id > - The way the Rule id is sent (L2 or L3) and how, describe > - Use of padding and how and when to use it > - Fragmentation delivery reliability option used over your technology and > why > - Define the MAX_ACK_REQUEST > - define the number of bits of: Rule-id, FCN (N) and DTag (T) > - Take into account that the length of rule-id+N+T + W=3D R and if > possible is good to have a multiple of 8 bits to complete a byte and avoi= d > padding > - In the ACK format perhaps the idea of 1 byte length for Rule-ID + > T + W bit to do optimisation more easily > - The algorithm to be used for the MIC > - The timer size for Fragmentation ACK always > - When to abort in ACK always > - MAX_ATTEMPS counter size > - In ACK on error the timer size between windows > - The L2 CRC used to increase reliability > > At least these are the things that the draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-conte= xt-hc-07 > leaves to be defined in this kind of documents > > Cheers > Ana > > > > > Ana Minaburo > > Research Division > Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14 <+33%202%2099%2012%2024%2014> > ana at ackl.io > > 2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie > 35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9 > France > > www.acklio.com > > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > > --001a114526d479a4dd055d6640a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ana,

Thanks for all the useful informati= on!

Cheers=
Ivaylo


Ivaylo Petrov
ivaylo at ackl.io




2 = bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie,
35510 Cesson S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9<= /div>
FRANCE

Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14
=

2017-11-07 14:29 GMT+01:00 Ana Minaburo <ana@ackl= .io>:
Hello,

I=E2=80=99ve read your = drafts, I thanks for this first input, I think it will give the next step f= or the working group. I was wondering if you will need some input about the= things the SCHC specification leaves open to the different documents like = yours.

I create a non exhaustive list of things th= at may be important to be defined in your document:

- In the architecture explain the SCHC entities, how they will be represe= nted in the corresponding technology architecture.
- How to learn= the context
- Size of the Rule id
- The way the Rule i= d is sent (L2 or L3) and how, describe
- Use of padding and how a= nd when to use it
- Fragmentation delivery reliability option use= d over your technology and why
- Define the MAX_ACK_REQUEST
=
- define the number of bits of: Rule-id, FCN (N) and DTag (T)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Take into account that the length of rule-id+N+T += W=3D R and if possible is good to have a multiple of 8 bits to complete a = byte and avoid padding
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - In the ACK format p= erhaps the idea of 1 byte length for Rule-ID + T + W bit to do optimisation= more easily
- The algorithm to be used for the MIC
- T= he timer size for Fragmentation ACK always
- When to abort in ACK= always
- MAX_ATTEMPS counter size
- In ACK on error th= e timer size between windows
- The L2 CRC used to increase reliab= ility

At least these are the things that the=C2=A0= draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07 leaves to be defined in thi= s kind of documents

Cheers
Ana


=C2=A0 =C2=A0

Ana Minaburo

Research Division

Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14ana at <= a href=3D"http://ackl.io" target=3D"_blank">ackl.io

2 = bis rue de la= =C2=A0Ch=C3=A2= taigneraie
35510=C2=A0Cesso= n-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9=C2=A0
France=C2=A0

www.acklio.com



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lp-wan mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan

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lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7E31337C6 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXaRlJxnqIyZ for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F4B13484F for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:9010:b63:2d5f:3778] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:9010:b63:2d5f:3778]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D3BB917209F for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 17:02:48 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7A0D05A0-7815-4CD6-836B-9B876B754356" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 17:02:49 +0100 To: lp-wan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Call information X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:12:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7A0D05A0-7815-4CD6-836B-9B876B754356 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, As always, the call information is on the etherpad and on the slides, = but you can also find it in this mail. Connection details ------------------ * Date: November 07, 2017 * Time: 8-9AM DST, 17:00 CEST: = https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=3D1&lid=3D2988507,1816670,5391959,51285= 81&h=3D2988507&date=3D2017-11-07&sln=3D17-18 = * Webex Link: = https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?MTID=3Dmda0658c049908cec459a2a0be= 9e0039b = * Meeting number: 208 224 943 * Meeting password: d5bBrqTZ (35227789 from phones) * Join from a video conferencing system or application * Dial 208224943@cisco.webex.com * Join by phone * +1-866-432-9903 Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada) * +1-408-525-6800 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) * Access code: 208 224 943 Best, The Chairs --Apple-Mail=_7A0D05A0-7815-4CD6-836B-9B876B754356 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi all,

As = always, the call information is on the etherpad and on the slides, but = you can also find it in this mail.

Connection details
------------------

*    Date: November = 07, 2017
*    Meeting number: = 208 224 943

*    Meeting password: d5bBrqTZ (35227789 from = phones)
*    Join from a video conferencing system or = application
*    Join by phone
*    +1-866-432-9903 Call-in toll-free number = (US/Canada)
*    +1-408-525-6800 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)
*    Access code: 208 224 = 943

Best,
The = Chairs


= --Apple-Mail=_7A0D05A0-7815-4CD6-836B-9B876B754356-- From nobody Wed Nov 8 09:43:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2853F128CD5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 09:43:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 61ocNlVNVK1j for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 09:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77BD11294A1 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 09:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 2a01cb088947ca009d0a16c897c30cde.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr (2a01cb088947ca009d0a16c897c30cde.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr [IPv6:2a01:cb08:8947:ca00:9d0a:16c8:97c3:cde]) (Authenticated sender: ana@ackl.io) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38F2CA80DD; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 18:42:54 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_30B3D5AC-4137-4235-AD65-CAFDBA9B7949" From: Ana Minaburo X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <297ba66dd68048e27601f6ef8b65bb7b.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 18:42:54 +0100 Cc: Laurent Toutain , "lp-wan@ietf.org" , Juan Carlos Zuniga Message-Id: <944C21D9-6EC6-4EF1-94D5-737CD5F75A5A@ackl.io> References: <297ba66dd68048e27601f6ef8b65bb7b.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> To: Carles Gomez Montenegro X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] Problem with downlink fragmentation (and proposed solution) X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:43:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_30B3D5AC-4137-4235-AD65-CAFDBA9B7949 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello, I ask you the same thing during the interim meeting. When we have a = downlink flow the ONLY fragmentation reliable option is the ACK always = but it needs some modifications, is this right?=20 So the device needs to support the timer-based ACK retransmission. How = about the first fragment that I need to send? One idea could be, as the = device sends regularly data to the gateway I can piggyback a request to = the ACK of this regular information to reinitialize my transmission? Ana =20 Ana Minaburo Research Division Phone: +33 (0)2.99.12.24.14 ana at ackl.io 2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie 35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9=20 France=20 www.acklio.com > On 06 Nov 2017, at 19:29, Carles Gomez Montenegro = wrote: >=20 > Hi Laurent, >=20 > Thanks a lot for the great figures! >=20 > I have two comments, and then I copy the text I propose for describing = the > ACK retry mechanism (for downlink fragmentation, ACK Always). >=20 > Comments: >=20 > - With regard to your last figure, as per Alexander's proposal, the = last > two ACK transmissions would not be needed (please see the last = paragraph > in my proposed text, which should hopefully capture Alexander's = proposal). >=20 > - I understand a fragment may be temporarily buffered in some element > (e.g. the NGW as you indicate), but it may depend also on the = underlying > LPWAN technology. For example, buffering may happen at the entity > performing fragmentation itself (or there may be other possibilities). >=20 > Proposed description of the ACK retry mechanism (to be added in = section > 5.8, after the currently existing paragraph): >=20 > For fragmented packet transmission in the downlink, and when ACK = Always > is used, the fragment receiver MAY support timer-based ACK > retransmission. In this mechanism, the fragment receiver initializes = and > starts a timer (denoted "ACK Retry timer") after the transmission of = an > ACK, except when the ACK is sent in response to the last fragment of = a > packet. In the latter case, the fragment receiver does not start a = timer > after transmission of the ACK. >=20 > If, after transmission of an ACK that is not a response to the last > fragment of the packet, and before expiration of the corresponding = ACK > Retry timer, the fragment receiver receives a fragment that belongs = to > the next window, the ACK Retry timer for the ACK is stopped. = However, if > the ACK Retry timer expires, the ACK is resent and the ACK Retry = timer > is reinitialized and restarted. >=20 > The default initial value for the ACK Retry timer, as well as the > maximum number of retries for a specific ACK, denoted = MAX_ACK_RETRIES, > are not defined in this document, and need to be defined in other > documents (e.g. technology-specific profiles). The initial value of = the > ACK Retry timer is expected to be greater than that of the ACK = Always > timer, in order to make sure that a (buffered) fragment to be > retransmitted can find an opportunity for that transmission. >=20 > When the fragment sender transmits the last fragment of a packet, it > initializes and starts its retransmission timer (ACK Always timer) = to a > long value (e.g. several times the initial ACK Retry timer). If an = ACK > is received before expiration of this timer, the fragment sender > retransmits any lost fragments reported by the ACK, or if the ACK > confirms successful reception of all fragments of > the last window, transmission of the fragmented packet ends. > If the timer expires, and no ACK has been received since the > start of the timer, the fragment sender assumes that the last > fragment has been successfully received (and possibly, the last ACK > has been lost: this mechanism assumes that the ACK Always timer for = the > last fragment is long enough to allow several ACK retries if the = last > fragment has not been received by the fragment receiver, and it also > assumes that it is unlikely that several ACKs become all lost). >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Carles >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Hi Carles, >>=20 >> Thank you to raise this element for the FSM. >> As we discussed yesterday, I think we can solve the problem with only = on >> Downlink message at the time and then generalize if with a special = uplink >> request. I will also reverse the scenario it is easier for me (uplink = from >> the left to the right). >>=20 >> A exchange without losses looks like that: >>=20 >> D Network >> | | >> DL request |-------------------->| >> Wbitmap |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D11 |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D11 |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D1; data >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->| >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> if a all-0 is lost: >>=20 >> D Network >> | | >> DL request |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->| >> | | x------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> | | | | >> | | | | >> | | | v >> | | H W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> v | H >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->H ignored since w is wrong >> |<--------------------| >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The sender timer expire, the frag is sent again but blocked by the = NGW. >> In >> any case, we can say that the device expect data since it has not = received >> FCN=3D1. The device must send a UL to get it. Timer must be higher = than the >> one used by the fragmenter. >>=20 >> If bitmap is lost (the FSM states are shown: on the left hand-side = which >> window is expected, and in the right hand-side which is the current >> window). >>=20 >> D Network >> expect| | current window >> v| | v >> DL request 0|-------------------->| 0| >> 0|<--------------------| 0| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 1|-------------------->| ---------------------- >> 1|<--------------------| 1| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D11 0|----------X | 1| | >> | 0| | 1| | >> | 0| | 1| | >> | 0| | 1| | >> | 0| | 1| | >> | 0| | 1| v >> | 0| H 1| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data >> v 0| H 1| >> BM=3D11 0|-------------------->H ------------- >> ignore w=3D=3D1 0|<--------------------H 0| frag is NGW sent >> BM=3D11 0|-------------------->| 0| W=3D=3D1; ignored >> 1|<--------------------| 0| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 1|-------------------->| ------------- >>=20 >> In that case, the fragmentation side sends again the frag, which is >> buffered in the NGW. >> Then the receiver timer expires which triggers the bitmap = retransmission. >>=20 >>=20 >> For an All-1 lost, the scenario is almost the same, the receivers = knows >> that all fragmentation >> ends with an All-1. So the same timer in the receiver side can be = used to >> request a DL transmission >>=20 >>=20 >> D Network >> | | >> DL request |-------------------->| >> |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->| >> | | x------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data >> | | | | >> | | | | >> | | | v >> | | H W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data >> v | H >> BM=3D01 |-------------------->H ignored since w is wrong >> |<--------------------H >> BM=3D11 |-------------------->| end >>=20 >>=20 >> if the bitmap is lost, it is more complex, I don't remember clearly = Alex's >> proposal. The problem is that the >> receiver state machine considers that the transmission is over, and I >> don't >> see why it should send >> again the bitmap to be sure that the sender has received it. >>=20 >> 1|<--------------------| 1| W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data >> BM=3D11 e|----------X | 1| | >> | e| | 1| | >> | e| | 1| | >> | e| | 1| | >> | e| | 1| | >> | e| | 1| v >> | e| H 1| W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data >> v e| H 1| >> BM=3D11 e|-------------------->H e >> e|<--------------------H e >> e|-------------------->| e >> e| | e >>=20 >> Laurent >>=20 >>=20 >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Juan Carlos Zuniga < >> juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com> wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Carles, >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: lp-wan [mailto:lp-wan-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carles >>> Gomez >>>> Montenegro >>>> Sent: October 4, 2017 3:20 AM >>>> To: lp-wan@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [lp-wan] Problem with downlink fragmentation (and proposed >>>> solution) >>>>=20 >>>> Dear LPWANners, >>>>=20 >>>> I would like to report a possible problem with downlink = fragmentation >>> in >>>> Window mode - ACK Always, and a possible solution for it. >>>>=20 >>>> The problem >>>> *********** >>>>=20 >>>> Let us assume *downlink* transmission of an IPv6 packet that = requires >>>> fragmentation, and ACK Always mode. Recall that in some LPWAN >>>> technologies and scenarios, a number of downlink transmissions can >>> only >>> be >>>> performed after reception of an uplink frame that allows the >>> opportunity >>> for >>>> downlink transmissions. >>>>=20 >>>> As an example, let us assume a window size of 4 fragments is used = (and >>>> supported by the lower layer technology as well), and an IPv6 = packet >>> that >>>> requires 6 fragments to be carried. In the example, after an uplink >>> frame that >>>> triggers transmission in the downlink, the first 4 fragments are >>> transmitted >>>> and successfully delivered to the receiver. Since ACK Always is = used, >>> an >>> ACK is >>>> sent by the receiver (to confirm that all those first 4 fragments = were >>>> successfully received). But the ACK is lost. >>>>=20 >>>> If the ACK is lost, the ACK Always timer will expire and the sender >>> will >>>> attempt a retry of the last fragment sent (as a way to request the >>> ACK). >>>> However, since transmission of the fragments is in the downlink, = such >>> retry >>>> will not be possible without an uplink frame transmission that = allows >>> the >>>> opportunity to transmit further downlink frames: >>>>=20 >>>> ----> downlink >>>> <---- uplink >>>>=20 >>>> Sender Receiver >>>> |<-- trigger UL ------| >>>> |-----W=3D0, FCN=3D3----->| >>>> |-----W=3D0, FCN=3D2----->| >>>> |-----W=3D0, FCN=3D1----->| >>>> |-----W=3D0, FCN=3D0----->| >>>> lost |<--X--ACK, W=3D1-------|no bitmap >>>> (*) |-----W=3D0, FCN=3D0----->| >>>>=20 >>>> (*) This fragment should be (re)sent, but it will not be possible >>>> without a previous uplink frame >>>>=20 >>>> At this point, i.e. after loss of the ACK, fragmented IPv6 packet >>> transmission >>>> would stall as per the current SCHC draft. Something similar would >>> happen if >>>> some of the fragments had been lost and the ACK (with a >>>> bitmap) was lost. >>>>=20 >>> [JCZ] True. This would be a problem >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Possible solution >>>> ***************** >>>>=20 >>>> A possible solution to the above problem would be to allow the >>> receiver >>> to >>>> resend the ACK after some time without receiving further fragments. = In >>> fact, >>>> the receiver can tell that the packet transmission has not finished = at >>> the >>>> moment of transmission of the ACK, since it has not received yet = the >>> "all-1" >>>> fragment (FCN=3D2^N-1, e.g. FCN=3D7 in the example). >>>>=20 >>>> This means adding a timer at the receiver for downlink fragment >>>> transmission (possibly as an optional feature). >>>>=20 >>>> What does the WG think about adding this feature to the SCHC draft? >>>>=20 >>>> Do you see other approaches to solve the above mentioned problem? >>>=20 >>> [JCZ] I think that the proposed solution makes sense and it is a = minor >>> change to the current spec. >>> The specific timer value could be defined in an eventual = SCHC-over-foo >>> document. >>>=20 >>> Best, >>>=20 >>> Juan Carlos >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Carles >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> lp-wan mailing list >>>> lp-wan@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> lp-wan mailing list >>> lp-wan@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> lp-wan mailing list >> lp-wan@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan --Apple-Mail=_30B3D5AC-4137-4235-AD65-CAFDBA9B7949 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_61124BA7-E22E-43F3-A743-671CD8591062" --Apple-Mail=_61124BA7-E22E-43F3-A743-671CD8591062 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hello,


I ask you the same thing during the interim = meeting. When we have a downlink flow the ONLY fragmentation reliable = option is the ACK always but it needs some modifications, is this = right? 

So the device needs to support the timer-based ACK = retransmission. How about the first fragment that I need to send? One = idea could be, as the device sends regularly data to the gateway I can = piggyback a request to the ACK of this regular information to = reinitialize my transmission?


Ana


  =  

Ana = Minaburo

Research = Division

Phone: +33 = (0)2.99.12.24.14
ana at ackl.io

2 bis rue de la Ch=C3=A2taigneraie
35510 Cesson-S=C3=A9vign=C3=A9 
France 

www.acklio.com


On 06 Nov 2017, at 19:29, Carles Gomez Montenegro <carlesgo@entel.upc.edu> wrote:

Hi = Laurent,

Thanks a lot for the great = figures!

I have two comments, and then I = copy the text I propose for describing the
ACK retry = mechanism (for downlink fragmentation, ACK Always).

Comments:

- With regard to your = last figure, as per Alexander's proposal, the last
two ACK = transmissions would not be needed (please see the last paragraph
in my proposed text, which should hopefully capture = Alexander's proposal).

- I understand a = fragment may be temporarily buffered in some element
(e.g. = the NGW as you indicate), but it may depend also on the underlying
LPWAN technology. For example, buffering may happen at the = entity
performing fragmentation itself (or there may be = other possibilities).

Proposed description = of the ACK retry mechanism (to be added in section
5.8, = after the currently existing paragraph):

=   For fragmented packet transmission in the downlink, and when = ACK Always
  is used, the fragment receiver MAY = support timer-based ACK
  retransmission. In = this mechanism, the fragment receiver initializes and
=   starts a timer (denoted "ACK Retry timer") after the = transmission of an
  ACK, except when the ACK = is sent in response to the last fragment of a
=   packet. In the latter case, the fragment receiver does not = start a timer
  after transmission of the = ACK.

  If, after transmission of = an ACK that is not a response to the last
=   fragment of the packet, and before expiration of the = corresponding ACK
  Retry timer, the fragment = receiver receives a fragment that belongs to
=   the next window, the ACK Retry timer for the ACK is stopped. = However, if
  the ACK Retry timer expires, the = ACK is resent and the ACK Retry timer
  is = reinitialized and restarted.

=   The default initial value for the ACK Retry timer, as well = as the
  maximum number of retries for a = specific ACK, denoted MAX_ACK_RETRIES,
  are = not defined in this document, and need to be defined in other
  documents (e.g. technology-specific profiles). = The initial value of the
  ACK Retry timer is = expected to be greater than that of the ACK Always
=   timer, in order to make sure that a (buffered) fragment to = be
  retransmitted can find an opportunity for = that transmission.

  When the = fragment sender transmits the last fragment of a packet, it
=   initializes and starts its retransmission timer (ACK Always = timer) to a
  long value (e.g. several times = the initial ACK Retry timer). If an ACK
  is = received before expiration of this timer, the fragment sender
  retransmits any lost fragments reported by the = ACK, or if the ACK
  confirms successful = reception of all fragments of
  the last = window, transmission of the fragmented packet ends.
=   If the timer expires, and no ACK has been received since = the
  start of the timer, the fragment sender = assumes that the last
  fragment has been = successfully received (and possibly, the last ACK
=   has been lost: this mechanism assumes that the ACK Always = timer for the
  last fragment is long enough to = allow several ACK retries if the last
=   fragment has not been received by the fragment receiver, and = it also
  assumes that it is unlikely that = several ACKs become all lost).

Cheers,

Carles




Hi Carles,

Thank you to raise = this element for the FSM.
As we discussed yesterday, I = think we can solve the problem with only on
Downlink = message at the time and then generalize if with a special uplink
request. I will also reverse the scenario it is easier for me = (uplink from
the left to the right).

A exchange without losses looks like that:

=           D =             &n= bsp;    Network
=           | =             &n= bsp;       |
DL request = |-------------------->|
  Wbitmap = |<--------------------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D11 =      |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D11 =      |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D0; FCN=3D1; data
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->|


if a all-0 is lost:

=           D =             &n= bsp;    Network
=           | =             &n= bsp;       |
DL request = |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->|
=        |  | =        x------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D0; = data
       |  | =             &n= bsp;       | |
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       | |
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       | v
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       H W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data
       v  | =             &n= bsp;       H
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->H ignored since w = is wrong
=           |<---------= -----------|



The sender  timer expire, the frag is sent again but = blocked by the NGW.
In
any case, we can say = that the device expect data since it has not received
FCN=3D= 1. The device must send a UL to get it. Timer must be higher than the
one used by the fragmenter.

If = bitmap is lost (the FSM states are shown: on the left hand-side which
window is expected, and in the right hand-side which is the = current
window).

=             D =             &n= bsp;    Network
=       expect| =             &n= bsp;       | current window
=            v| =             &n= bsp;       | v
DL = request  0|-------------------->| 0|
=            0|<--= ------------------| 0|  W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =       1|-------------------->| = ----------------------
=            1|<--= ------------------| 1|  W=3D1; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D11 =       0|----------X =          | 1| =   |
=          | 0| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | 0| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | 0| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | 0| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | 0| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   v
         | 0| =             &n= bsp;       H 1|  W=3D1; FCN=3D0; = data
=          v 0| =             &n= bsp;       H 1|
BM=3D11 =       0|-------------------->H = -------------
ignore w=3D=3D1 0|<--------------------H = 0|  frag is NGW sent
BM=3D11 =       0|-------------------->| 0| =  W=3D=3D1; ignored
=            1|<--= ------------------| 0|  W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =       1|-------------------->| = -------------

In that case, the = fragmentation side sends again the frag, which is
buffered = in the NGW.
Then the receiver timer expires which triggers = the bitmap retransmission.


For= an All-1 lost, the scenario is almost the same, the receivers knows
that all fragmentation
ends with an All-1. So = the same timer in the receiver side can be used to
request = a DL transmission


=           D =             &n= bsp;    Network
=           | =             &n= bsp;       |
DL request = |-------------------->|
=           |<---------= -----------| W=3D0; FCN=3D0; data
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->|
=        |  | =        x------------| W=3D1; FCN=3D1; = data
       |  | =             &n= bsp;       | |
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       | |
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       | v
=        |  | =             &n= bsp;       H W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data
       v  | =             &n= bsp;       H
BM=3D01 =      |-------------------->H ignored since w = is wrong
=           |<---------= -----------H
BM=3D11 =      |-------------------->| end


if the bitmap is lost, it is = more complex, I don't remember clearly Alex's
proposal. = The problem is that the
receiver state machine considers = that the transmission is over, and I
don't
see= why it should send
again the bitmap to be sure that the = sender has received it.

=            1|<--= ------------------| 1|  W=3D1; FCN=3D1; data
BM=3D11 =       e|----------X =          | 1| =   |
=          | e| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | e| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | e| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | e| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   |
         | e| =             &n= bsp;       | 1|   v
         | e| =             &n= bsp;       H 1|  W=3D1; FCN=3D1; = data
=          v e| =             &n= bsp;       H 1|
BM=3D11 =       e|-------------------->H e
=            e|<--= ------------------H e
=            e|------= -------------->| e
=            e| =             &n= bsp;       | e

Laurent


On Wed, = Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Juan Carlos Zuniga <
juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com> wrote:

Hi Carles,

-----Original Message-----
From: lp-wan [mailto:lp-wan-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carles
Gomez
Montenegro
Sent: October 4, 2017 3:20 AM
To: lp-wan@ietf.org
Subject: [lp-wan] Problem = with downlink fragmentation (and proposed
solution)

Dear LPWANners,

I = would like to report a possible problem with downlink fragmentation
in
Window mode - ACK Always, and a possible solution for it.

The problem
***********

Let us assume *downlink* transmission of an = IPv6 packet that requires
fragmentation, and ACK Always = mode. Recall that in some LPWAN
technologies and = scenarios, a number of downlink transmissions can
only
be
performed after reception of an uplink frame = that allows the
opportunity
for
downlink= transmissions.

As an example, let us = assume a window size of 4 fragments is used (and
supported = by the lower layer technology as well), and an IPv6 packet
that
requires 6 fragments to be carried. In the example, after an = uplink
frame that
triggers transmission in the downlink, the = first 4 fragments are
transmitted
and successfully = delivered to the receiver. Since ACK Always is used,
an
ACK is
sent by the receiver (to confirm that all those = first 4 fragments were
successfully received). But the ACK = is lost.

If the ACK is lost, the ACK Always = timer will expire and the sender
will
attempt a retry of the = last fragment sent (as a way to request the
ACK).
However, since transmission of the fragments is in the = downlink, such
retry
will not be possible without an uplink frame = transmission that allows
the
opportunity to transmit = further downlink frames:

=   ----> downlink
  <---- = uplink

=            Sender =             &n= bsp; Receiver
=             &n= bsp;|<-- trigger UL ------|
=             &n= bsp;|-----W=3D0, FCN=3D3----->|
=             &n= bsp;|-----W=3D0, FCN=3D2----->|
=             &n= bsp;|-----W=3D0, FCN=3D1----->|
=             &n= bsp;|-----W=3D0, FCN=3D0----->|
=         lost |<--X--ACK, = W=3D1-------|no bitmap
=          (*) |-----W=3D0, = FCN=3D0----->|

  (*) This = fragment should be (re)sent, but it will not be possible
=       without a previous uplink frame

At this point, i.e. after loss of the ACK, = fragmented IPv6 packet
transmission
would stall as per the = current SCHC draft. Something similar would
happen if
some of the fragments had been lost and the ACK (with a
bitmap) was lost.

[JCZ] True. This would be a problem


Possible solution
*****************

A possible solution to the above problem would = be to allow the
receiver
to
resend the ACK after = some time without receiving further fragments. In
fact,
the receiver can tell that the packet transmission has not = finished at
the
moment of transmission of the ACK, since it has = not received yet the
"all-1"
fragment (FCN=3D2^N-1, = e.g. FCN=3D7 in the example).

This means = adding a timer at the receiver for downlink fragment
transmission  (possibly as an optional feature).

What does the WG think about adding this = feature to the SCHC draft?

Do you see other = approaches to solve the above mentioned problem?

[JCZ] I think that the proposed = solution makes sense and it is a minor
change to the = current spec.
The specific timer value could be defined in = an eventual SCHC-over-foo
document.

Best,

Juan Carlos


Thanks,

Carles

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lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1FA126CD6 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpwnR6O21agM for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D984126BF6 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a01:e34:ec28:74c0:6d1d:5ee4:ed97:b84e] (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e34:ec28:74c0:6d1d:5ee4:ed97:b84e]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 845001720DD for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 16:24:15 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 16:24:14 +0100 To: lp-wan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Minutes from last interim X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:24:19 -0000 Hello all, The minutes from our last Interim Meeting are now on the Datatracker: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2017-lpwan-11/materials/minut= es-interim-2017-lpwan-11-201711071700/ Thanks to everyone that participated - and please review the minutes if = everything was captured correctly. See you @IETF100. Best, The Chairs From nobody Sat Nov 11 16:53:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499F41271FD for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 16:53:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.65.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151044802629.30812.13414316097547269754.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 16:53:46 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Milestones changed for lpwan WG X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:53:46 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit LPWAN specification to the IESG for publication as an Informational Document ", resolved as "Done". URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lpwan/about/ From nobody Sun Nov 12 19:03:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5258C127876 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:03:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8B8HQZKVw4Cs for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from papa.tanu.org (z189134.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [110.4.189.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02B11241F5 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tanupoo.local (unknown [64.104.44.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by papa.tanu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EFA3227324 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:03:31 +0900 (JST) To: lp-wan@ietf.org From: Shoichi Sakane Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:03:31 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] rule id and fragments X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:03:34 -0000 Hi, It might be a stupid question. I am missing something. The rule id is placed in each fragment. How can the receiver know the size of the rule id field ? The receiver should know the size before the receiver receives the fragments. Thanks, Shoichi From nobody Sun Nov 12 19:23:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F063F128B88 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:23:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wg0IorFxGh37 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from dash.upc.es (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 739B3127B73 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from entelserver.upc.edu (entelserver.upc.es [147.83.39.4]) by dash.upc.es (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id vAD3NJZg021691; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:23:19 +0100 Received: from webmail.entel.upc.edu (webmail.entel.upc.edu [147.83.39.6]) by entelserver.upc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6705A1D53C1; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:23:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from 31.133.137.212 by webmail.entel.upc.edu with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:23:04 +0100 Message-ID: <07af0934af9645c1747c9bff6e845674.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:23:04 +0100 From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" To: "Shoichi Sakane" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-1.fc14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at dash X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: ACL matched, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:23:19 +0100 (CET) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] rule id and fragments X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:23:24 -0000 Hi Shoichi, You are right: the receiver needs to know the size of the Rule ID in advance. (The SCHC spec itself does not define the size of the Rule ID. Upcoming SCHC-over-foo specs will provide more details on this for specific LPWAN technologies.) Cheers, Carles > Hi, > > It might be a stupid question. I am missing something. > > The rule id is placed in each fragment. How can the receiver know the > size of the rule id field ? > > The receiver should know the size before the receiver receives the > fragments. > > Thanks, > Shoichi > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > From nobody Sun Nov 12 19:33:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759DD1293FD for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:33:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=imt-atlantique.fr Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WEfGO6VdRmAK for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr (zproxy110.enst.fr [137.194.2.192]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC70E1293E0 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FAD80BF3 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:33:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy110.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 4JPERYio2H51 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:33:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84A8137C for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:33:24 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zproxy110.enst.fr EE84A8137C DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=imt-atlantique.fr; s=50EA75E8-DE22-11E6-A6DE-0662BA474D24; t=1510544005; bh=FHKSNWEEp4u8jLnavcbJzvcv0PoLayMKCQygckojbM4=; h=MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID:To; b=MqgZhke/1L44NGrXrax9Op215+rAQ1KTptdK1+zuNH/6KzCZCKIObn/DIp2hAqv0y qEx8IMVd5d2I8uJ+Yd0qUufTa2bobOL3k6LQNCPy9SIgHrYciF5eRW/h0EAUM3VntT qohJ3BKQB9ZdEdSh6UbQJyzW3LBBCkS9D6b3LbQI= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zproxy110.enst.fr Received: from zproxy110.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy110.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 05_YL5lQPTix for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:33:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-io0-f175.google.com (mail-io0-f175.google.com [209.85.223.175]) by zproxy110.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A0148126F for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:33:24 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-io0-f175.google.com with SMTP id w127so1728175iow.11 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:33:24 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7kahkdVC96WU2BWLrNKFzsGD3xjS/CdSQb6oekYp5Ao0UM2DU3 TyoP7st/ZRS/dWjf170kml7g8rqr3f55cQ6neSs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZhi4b4wOcR8FxMnf4Ddc6d9X5zFnLwyGb47R7G0XbKfSIAj+IVthjVLVmusDOARHzOPQ4PA73fCyDrt7kV8EE= X-Received: by 10.107.169.210 with SMTP id f79mr1153966ioj.141.1510544003011; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:33:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.106.42 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:32:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <07af0934af9645c1747c9bff6e845674.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> References: <07af0934af9645c1747c9bff6e845674.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> From: Laurent Toutain Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 11:32:42 +0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Carles Gomez Montenegro Cc: Shoichi Sakane , lp-wan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1142790ab79d5c055dd4ee66" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] rule id and fragments X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:33:29 -0000 --001a1142790ab79d5c055dd4ee66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Shoichi, The size can be stored in the context. Laurent On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Carles Gomez Montenegro < carlesgo@entel.upc.edu> wrote: > Hi Shoichi, > > You are right: the receiver needs to know the size of the Rule ID in > advance. > > (The SCHC spec itself does not define the size of the Rule ID. Upcoming > SCHC-over-foo specs will provide more details on this for specific LPWAN > technologies.) > > Cheers, > > Carles > > > > Hi, > > > > It might be a stupid question. I am missing something. > > > > The rule id is placed in each fragment. How can the receiver know the > > size of the rule id field ? > > > > The receiver should know the size before the receiver receives the > > fragments. > > > > Thanks, > > Shoichi > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lp-wan mailing list > > lp-wan@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > --001a1142790ab79d5c055dd4ee66 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shoichi,

The size can be stored = in the context.

Laurent
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Carles Gomez= Montenegro <carlesgo@entel.upc.edu> wrote:
Hi Shoichi,

You are right: the receiver needs to know the size of the Rule ID in advanc= e.

(The SCHC spec itself does not define the size of the Rule ID. Upcoming
SCHC-over-foo specs will provide more details on this for specific LPWAN technologies.)

Cheers,

Carles


> Hi,
>
> It might be a stupid question.=C2=A0 I am missing something.
>
> The rule id is placed in each fragment.=C2=A0 How can the receiver kno= w the
> size of the rule id field ?
>
> The receiver should know the size before the receiver receives the
> fragments.
>
> Thanks,
> Shoichi
>
> _______________________________________________
> lp-wan mailing list
> lp-wan@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan
>


_______________________________________________
lp-wan mailing list
lp-wan@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan

--001a1142790ab79d5c055dd4ee66-- From nobody Sun Nov 12 21:59:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77615128B91 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:59:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gpNOqAHvei7d for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from papa.tanu.org (z189134.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [110.4.189.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE46B127977 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from tanupoo.local (unknown [64.104.44.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by papa.tanu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A654127324; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:59:33 +0900 (JST) To: Laurent Toutain , Carles Gomez Montenegro Cc: lp-wan References: <07af0934af9645c1747c9bff6e845674.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> From: Shoichi Sakane Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:59:34 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] rule id and fragments X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:59:36 -0000 make sense. Thanks, Shoichi On 11/13/17 12:32, Laurent Toutain wrote: > Hi Shoichi, > > The size can be stored in the context. > > Laurent > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Carles Gomez Montenegro > wrote: > > Hi Shoichi, > > You are right: the receiver needs to know the size of the Rule ID in advance. > > (The SCHC spec itself does not define the size of the Rule ID. Upcoming > SCHC-over-foo specs will provide more details on this for specific LPWAN > technologies.) > > Cheers, > > Carles > > > > Hi, > > > > It might be a stupid question.  I am missing something. > > > > The rule id is placed in each fragment.  How can the receiver know the > > size of the rule id field ? > > > > The receiver should know the size before the receiver receives the > > fragments. > > > > Thanks, > > Shoichi > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lp-wan mailing list > > lp-wan@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > From nobody Mon Nov 13 09:19:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33501127137 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mhlOUnGf7nXM for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x241.google.com (mail-lf0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D9C8129B30 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x241.google.com with SMTP id o66so10985649lfg.0 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:18:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OspyjKXiBYUvFAWovZHihh8EHb1/iNDnejiWe8afM4Y=; b=CY6TEuni1a3Bm4r0POzwgSEO4rKKDIbAesa7ydiuQkFmFQwooFO7ezxBnBnyDteuo/ zQ3vy0uuo3R4YEDUBlUzlZZdwT1J5xP+9+FE/EAzb9o3rD9SrnJZlgrcfCWYSJWVbpHG NglKCTYWAyAAGs8iw2loeI6DCPLbnfjfrW9QIIp7r9mLq+/kR9zySZ2UMESSh0WknUCP KNRJtugNpr7PCrTnpUJVIGbDsqsHdyedcgQkEJNH9VQv6MDfUh1mCSpXd9DlLQnPHfZb TlIUId9Q8nYIXvSQvjmudM6NablGFjXSEECuwerXSi7rhGioTXsuPUWpNYcrCz4G3juM /XWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OspyjKXiBYUvFAWovZHihh8EHb1/iNDnejiWe8afM4Y=; b=HwWlFHQj5fc60FJoCyHfB+pzvy+kC2QtmVgPVO2Iep4O+++2sfwtA1t2yhXeUoIq6Y wlaCa+xyQZTNyla0oUcDZov4hqDcAhfZd6QO++mXpADqxIm3L6FWcToMhzL8UJsgzlx2 8wYWLR/ZqnAwXsAYl/JvDd4yIo3jD3Rf/IN28Qthiqmvpvbbu8N9YjG4tvoTwgfwMZTz h0LeaXkizwkrT7yp8zVj/3prJrfpyoW9k4O4r/hbCMfSNPRRGHb5oR3ir0zzJb/UdonB rmVvtncnMjYY9tri6NEJnjwLB3banOtBUKY8Ckou+1Gixg3id+Zrilayi39B2Ww5HyFj NB3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5ym1z4P3BCSM+qQfwx/T8EsLKRkpTbLI03WCQ7pfkiYZU+0OZU jHeGXtIxtJqtG7gOCWmcchl901TGNP8kDvu1F0KBOQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZmCtEI1vYq9Iljl5Cy2Z4wAQuYCccxyylusDMcA6wpdWgjEz3MQzhD7BFMB5oICStnQTqxG+Lu3Ct/yXf7Xsw= X-Received: by 10.46.101.141 with SMTP id e13mr2819239ljf.127.1510593534679; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:18:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.229.213 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:18:54 -0800 (PST) From: C Ad Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:18:54 +0800 Message-ID: To: lp-wan@ietf.org Cc: cedric.adjih@inria.fr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114d4a3808e16e055de07718" Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Quick comments on draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 17:19:00 -0000 --001a114d4a3808e16e055de07718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear all, After reading parts of this draft, I would have the following comments/questions: I'm using lines numbers as in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adjih/SCHC/numbered-draft/draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07-lines.txt, here are comments on: 946 been received or not. FCN set to All-0 and All-1 fragments are set -> Slightly confusing with "All-0" and "All-1"; -> in general, maybe it is possible to differentiate in the text between the true fragment counter (that never takes the value "All-1") and something like an "advertized FCN field" that could be "All-1" ? (or "fragment index in window" vs "FCN"). 880 fragments format this field has a size of R - T - N - 1 *** bits when -> computations on R,T,N are presented before R,T,N are defined -> moreover these names may not be obvious: R=
, T=, N= -> is there a reason to introduce and use R (
) instead of: using , and compute 'R' when needed (which is actually maybe not needed in the current draft)? -> does the draft specifies constraints for R,T,N (such as >0 orw >=0)? 1188 one with FCN set to MAX_WIND_FCN. Also note that, in Window mode, -> how is MAX_WIND_FCN defined ? 547 Otherwise, the next rule is tested. If no eligible rule is found, 548 then the header must be sent without compression, in which case 549 the fragmentation process must*** be required. -> minor question: "must" or "is likely to" ? If the packet is small, it might still fit without compression ? 903 field is an unsigned integer, with a size of N bits. In the No ACK 904 mode it is set to 1 bit (N=1). [...] -> minor question: isn't it still possible (even if it makes little sense), to keep larger FCNs in No ACK mode ? in which case that could be written as: "In the No ACK mode, it SHOULD be set to 1 bit (N=1)" .................................................. Possible typos (noted by ***): 817 the fragment receiver after a window of fragments have*** been sent. A 877 the fragmentation mode used, also to idenitfy*** fragments from ACK and 878 Abort frames. The*** also allows to interleave non-fragmented IPv6 890 value when all the bits equals*** 0 (all-0) denotes the last fragment of 891 the windonw*** in any window mode or the fragments in No ACK mode. The 1390 case an all-0 fragmet*** is sent and the timer is set. The sender 1386 bitmap is set. The send*** state can be leaved*** for different reasons 1387 (for both reasons it goes to WAIT BITMAP STATE): -> "The SEND state is left, always for the WAIT BITMAP STATE, in the following two cases:" 919 same value for all fragments carrying the same IPv6 datagram, allows*** -> "and allows" 823 by the fragment sender, the latter retransmits an all-1 empty 824 fragment, which serves as an ACK request. [...] -> "the latter sends an ACK request (which as the format of an "all-1" empty fragment). Spurious "newlines" at lines: 907, 1367 .................................................. thank you, regards, -- Cedric Adjih --001a114d4a3808e16e055de07718 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

After reading parts of this d= raft, I would have the following comments/questions:

I'm using lines numbers as in=C2=A0https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adjih/SCHC/numbered-draf= t/draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07-lines.txt, here are commen= ts on:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0946 =C2=A0 =C2=A0been received or not.=C2=A0 FCN set to All-0= and All-1 fragments are set
-> Slightly confusing with "= All-0" and "All-1";
-> in general, maybe it is = possible to differentiate in the text between the true fragment counter (th= at never takes the value "All-1") and something like an "adv= ertized FCN field" that could be "All-1" ? (or "fragmen= t index in window" vs "FCN").


<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0880 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0fragments format this field has a size of R - T - N - 1 *** bits when=

-> computations on R,T,N are presented before = R,T,N are defined
-> moreover these names may not be obvious: = R=3D<header size>,=C2=A0 T=3D<DTag size>, N=3D<FCN size><= /div>
-> is there a reason to introduce and use R (<header size&g= t;) instead of: using <rule-id size>, and compute 'R' when ne= eded (which is actually maybe not needed in the current draft)?
-= > does the draft specifies constraints for R,T,N (such as >0 orw >= =3D0)?


=C2=A0 1188 =C2=A0 =C2=A0one with FCN set to MAX_WIND_FCN.=C2=A0= Also note that, in Window mode,
=C2=A0=C2=A0
-> how= is MAX_WIND_FCN defined ?


=C2=A0 = =C2=A0547 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Other= wise, the next rule is tested.=C2=A0 If no eligible rule is found,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0548 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 then the header must be sent without compression, in which case
=C2=A0 =C2=A0549 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 the fragmentation process must*** be required.

<= div>-> minor question: "must" or "is likely to" ? If= the packet is small, it might still fit without compression ?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0903 =C2=A0 =C2=A0field is an unsigned integer, with a size of N bits.= =C2=A0 In the No ACK
=C2=A0 =C2=A0904 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mode it is set to 1 bit (N=3D1). [...]
<= br>
-> minor question: isn't it still possible (even if it= makes little sense), to keep larger FCNs in No ACK mode ?
in whi= ch case that could be written as: "In the No ACK mode, it SHOULD be se= t to 1 bit (N=3D1)"

.........................= .........................

Possible typos (noted by= ***):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0817 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the fragment receiver after a window of fragments= have*** been sent.=C2=A0 A

=C2=A0 =C2=A0877 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the fragmentation mode used,= also to idenitfy*** fragments from ACK and

=C2=A0= =C2=A0878 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Abort frames= .=C2=A0 The*** also allows to interleave non-fragmented IPv6

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0890 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0value when all the bits equals*** 0 (all-0) denotes the last fragment= of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0891 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the windonw*** in any window mode or the fr= agments in No ACK mode.=C2=A0 The

=C2=A0 1390 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 case an all-0 fragm= et*** is sent and the timer is set.=C2=A0 The sender

=C2=A0 1386 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bitmap i= s set.=C2=A0 The send*** state can be leaved*** for different reasons=
=C2=A0 1387 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(for b= oth reasons it goes to WAIT BITMAP STATE):
-> "The SEND s= tate is left, always for the WAIT BITMAP STATE, in the following two cases:= "

=C2=A0 =C2=A0919 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same value for all fragments carrying the same IP= v6 datagram, allows***
-> "and allows"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0823 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0by the fragment sender, the latter retransmits an all-1 empty
=C2=A0 =C2=A0824 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fra= gment, which serves as an ACK request.=C2=A0 [...]
-> "th= e latter sends an ACK request (which as the format of an "all-1" = empty fragment).

Spurious "newlines" at = lines: 907, 1367

.................................= .................

thank you,
regar= ds,
-- Cedric Adjih

--001a114d4a3808e16e055de07718-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:26:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDAD12949B for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:26:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.262 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.262 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST=1.125, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_HEX=1.122, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:26:37 -0600 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: lp-wan Thread-Topic: LPWAN Interims Thread-Index: AdNd86lqfpdENKQ/Rr+Gsj2SezXzBQ== Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:26:29 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:26:23 +0000 Message-ID: <015d1b03e25642dfa4f8b1262ec67aa1@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.68.210.141] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_015d1b03e25642dfa4f8b1262ec67aa1XCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] LPWAN Interims X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:26:42 -0000 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by1lbGVtZW50LWZyYW1lLWhzcGFjZToxLjBwdDttc28tZWxlbWVudC13cmFwOmFyb3VuZDttc28t ZWxlbWVudC1hbmNob3ItdmVydGljYWw6cGFyYWdyYXBoO21zby1lbGVtZW50LWFuY2hvci1ob3Jp em9udGFsOmNvbHVtbjttc28taGVpZ2h0LXJ1bGU6ZXhhY3RseSI+DQo8c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1zaXplOjkuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0FyaWFsJnF1b3Q7LHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPklN UE9SVEFOVCBOT1RJQ0U6IFBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBXZWJFeCBzZXJ2aWNlIGFsbG93 cyBhdWRpbyBhbmQgb3RoZXIgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gc2VudCBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIHNlc3Npb24gdG8g YmUgcmVjb3JkZWQsIHdoaWNoIG1heSBiZSBkaXNjb3ZlcmFibGUgaW4gYSBsZWdhbCBtYXR0ZXIu IEJ5IGpvaW5pbmcgdGhpcyBzZXNzaW9uLA0KIHlvdSBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IGNvbnNlbnQgdG8g c3VjaCByZWNvcmRpbmdzLiBJZiB5b3UgZG8gbm90IGNvbnNlbnQgdG8gYmVpbmcgcmVjb3JkZWQs IGRpc2N1c3MgeW91ciBjb25jZXJucyB3aXRoIHRoZSBob3N0IG9yIGRvIG5vdCBqb2luIHRoZSBz ZXNzaW9uLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvdGQ+DQo8L3RyPg0KPC90Ym9keT4NCjwv dGFibGU+DQo8L3RkPg0KPC90cj4NCjwvdGJvZHk+DQo8L3RhYmxlPg0KPC90ZD4NCjwvdHI+DQo8 L3Rib2R5Pg0KPC90YWJsZT4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_015d1b03e25642dfa4f8b1262ec67aa1XCHRCD001ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:28:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E583129455 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:28:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dIq8HI4FwYV8 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DF301296D2 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:68a6:f5fb:ee75:9dd6] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:68a6:f5fb:ee75:9dd6]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9AB76C5A56 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:28:14 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:28:15 +0800 To: lp-wan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Minutes from LPWAN WG @ IETF 100 meeting X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:28:26 -0000 Dear all, The minutes from the Monday meeting are now on the Datatracker: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-100-lpwan/ Best, Pascal and Alexander From nobody Thu Nov 16 18:29:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8C712008A for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:29:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mC6TzcrU78bS for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from dash.upc.es (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9647C126DFE for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from entelserver.upc.edu (entelserver.upc.es [147.83.39.4]) by dash.upc.es (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id vAH2Tn4f023325; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:29:49 +0100 Received: from webmail.entel.upc.edu (webmail.entel.upc.edu [147.83.39.6]) by entelserver.upc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0D01D53C1; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:29:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from 42.61.189.218 by webmail.entel.upc.edu with HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:29:28 +0100 Message-ID: <5d7018be0f446af5e2872cf5d6fb4299.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> In-Reply-To: <944C21D9-6EC6-4EF1-94D5-737CD5F75A5A@ackl.io> References: <297ba66dd68048e27601f6ef8b65bb7b.squirrel@webmail.entel.upc.edu> <944C21D9-6EC6-4EF1-94D5-737CD5F75A5A@ackl.io> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:29:28 +0100 From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" To: "Ana Minaburo" Cc: "lp-wan@ietf.org" , "Laurent Toutain" , "Juan Carlos Zuniga" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-1.fc14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at dash X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 95:06:30 by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:29:49 +0100 (CET) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] Problem with downlink fragmentation (and proposed solution) X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 02:29:56 -0000 Hello Ana, (Apologies for the delay.) > I ask you the same thing during the interim meeting. When we have a > downlink flow the ONLY fragmentation reliable option is the ACK always but > it needs some modifications, is this right? As I see it, the answer is yes (in the scenarios for which those modifications are required). In ACK on error, and in the scenarios where an uplink message is needed to allow transmitting a downlink message, there is a problem for packets that exceed the size of a window of fragments: if a window of (downlink) fragments is correctly received, the receiver does not generate an ACK, and therefore an uplink message (that would trigger the transmission of the next fragments) will not be transmitted, stalling the fragmented packet transmission. It is true that some other approach (e.g. sending uplink L2 ACKs, which is somewhat an "ACK Always") may be used, but if an L2 ACK is lost, fragmented packet transmission stalls anyway. And since currently, and typically, the window size for many of those scenarios for downlink fragmentation is "one fragment", the problem exists even for the smallest fragmented packets. > So the device needs to support the timer-based ACK retransmission. How > about the first fragment that I need to send? One idea could be, as the > device sends regularly data to the gateway I can piggyback a request to > the ACK of this regular information to reinitialize my transmission? For the first fragment, I think the sender can only wait until the receiver (the device, Dev) transmits successfully some uplink message. If the Dev periodically transmits uplink messages, one of those transmissions can serve as the trigger for transmitting the first downlink fragment (as you say). If there have to be "frequent" opportunities for downlink fragmented transmission, the Dev needs to "frequently" transmit uplink messages, so there is a trade-off here... Cheers, Carles > Ana From nobody Thu Nov 16 19:03:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9B51274D2; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:03:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151088781934.22253.570794228415387234@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:03:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) WG Virtual Meeting: 2018-02-13 X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:03:39 -0000 The IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2018-02-13 from 17:00 to 18:00 Europe/Amsterdam. Agenda: Agenda will be published one week ahead of the meeting. It will cover discussions on WG items, personal submissions and rechartering. Information about remote participation: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m016ded95875427897fd1089cb921b30b Meeting number (access code): 204 648 433 Meeting password: 62YbPWpj (62927975 from phones) From nobody Thu Nov 16 19:04:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701E61275C5; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:04:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151088788839.22297.18050340420297245978@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:04:48 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) WG Virtual Meeting: 2017-12-05 X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:04:48 -0000 The IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2017-12-05 from 17:00 to 18:00 Europe/Amsterdam. Agenda: Agenda will be published one week ahead of the meeting. It will cover discussions on WG items, personal submissions and rechartering. Information about remote participation: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m016ded95875427897fd1089cb921b30b Meeting number (access code): 204 648 433 Meeting password: 62YbPWpj (62927975 from phones) From nobody Thu Nov 16 19:05:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4361275F4; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:05:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151088790444.22253.5345211530416612430@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:05:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) WG Virtual Meeting: 2017-12-19 X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:05:06 -0000 The IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2017-12-19 from 17:00 to 18:00 Europe/Amsterdam. Agenda: Agenda will be published one week ahead of the meeting. It will cover discussions on WG items, personal submissions and rechartering. Information about remote participation: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m016ded95875427897fd1089cb921b30b Meeting number (access code): 204 648 433 Meeting password: 62YbPWpj (62927975 from phones) From nobody Thu Nov 16 19:06:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04223128990; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:05:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151088795696.22171.10462523040446687462@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:05:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) WG Virtual Meeting: 2018-01-16 X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:06:02 -0000 The IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2018-01-16 from 17:00 to 18:00 Europe/Amsterdam. Agenda: Agenda will be published one week ahead of the meeting. It will cover discussions on WG items, personal submissions and rechartering. Information about remote participation: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m016ded95875427897fd1089cb921b30b Meeting number (access code): 204 648 433 Meeting password: 62YbPWpj (62927975 from phones) From nobody Thu Nov 16 19:06:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietf.org Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF80128B90; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:06:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151088796833.22284.747973536385697982@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 19:06:08 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) WG Virtual Meeting: 2018-01-30 X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 03:06:13 -0000 The IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks (lpwan) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2018-01-30 from 17:00 to 18:00 Europe/Amsterdam. Agenda: Agenda will be published one week ahead of the meeting. It will cover discussions on WG items, personal submissions and rechartering. Information about remote participation: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m016ded95875427897fd1089cb921b30b Meeting number (access code): 204 648 433 Meeting password: 62YbPWpj (62927975 from phones) From nobody Sat Nov 18 21:06:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA02F124D37 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:06:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUeWKRDfbFZJ for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from papa.tanu.org (z189134.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [110.4.189.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9C1120725 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from tanupoo.local (unknown [1.1.1.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by papa.tanu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5B2A2730C for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:06:42 +0900 (JST) To: lp-wan From: Shoichi Sakane Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:06:42 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] L2 size and fragment retransmission problem X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 05:06:45 -0000 Hi, LoRaWAN L2 payload is likely to be variable. In window mode, if a sender needs to retransmit a fragment, but the L2 size is smaller the one that the sender used to send the fragment first time, how does the sender fix the fragment into the smaller size of the L2 payload ? Thanks, Shoichi From nobody Sun Nov 19 00:42:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66856126BF3 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 00:42:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DZ7E8ZzuLCvw for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 00:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from violet.upc.es (violet.upc.es [147.83.2.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31224120724 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 00:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from entelserver.upc.edu (entelserver.upc.es [147.83.39.4]) by violet.upc.es (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id vAJ8go1w049652; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:51 +0100 Received: from webmail.entel.upc.edu (webmail.entel.upc.edu [147.83.39.6]) by entelserver.upc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABF61D53C1; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from 83.37.37.84 by webmail.entel.upc.edu with HTTP; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:28 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:28 +0100 From: "Carles Gomez Montenegro" To: "Shoichi Sakane" Cc: "lp-wan" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21-1.fc14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at violet X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:00:52 by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (violet.upc.es [147.83.2.51]); Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:51 +0100 (CET) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] L2 size and fragment retransmission problem X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 08:42:56 -0000 Hi Shoichi, While designing SCHC fragmentation, we considered the problem you mention. However, we found that the problem is relatively complex, and would require use of further header and ACK/bitmap bits to support a solution. (Something like a second-level bitmap and second-level FCNs should be supported for refragmenting a fragment in that case.) Therefore SCHC fragmentation, as of today, does not provide a solution to this problem, and possibly the sender may only transmit an Abort message when it happens. Does the WG think there needs to be a solution to this problem (i.e. to allow retransmitting a fragment that needs to be "refragmented", and supporting ACK/bitmap feedback at the "subfragment" level)? Cheers, Carles > Hi, > > LoRaWAN L2 payload is likely to be variable. In window mode, if a sender > needs to retransmit a fragment, but the L2 size is smaller the one that > the sender used to send the fragment first time, how does the sender fix > the fragment into the smaller size of the L2 payload ? > > Thanks, > Shoichi From nobody Tue Nov 21 03:13:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D98126D0C for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VIhfzIs9hnDD for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x244.google.com (mail-qk0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07ED3126CD8 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x244.google.com with SMTP id a142so11457375qkb.5 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ylfu0wyBOnyKRIW22ftIZbn54sHZADEZhKB3cV0TRTw=; b=OdPjWY2wJsykyjX2KCB88dvaiwFetpBbn8i/r/eVPdXAWQDLU5QvBwqF3lfG9o9qhV atsWEP2mIxd4BchheCHQfjh52XKIFBae+eCJ478q7e1nfCJf9dbofRRJTjMbSCbsJgiv uglmgRfm4P1usfmoPTwVCxMOBXUIp/GCjp17m+Gns17wkqnhQ+oug6Wx5JsgZXyXWj5T hj0L3BnFxGE43QXgBAbeYBSTUgcJZFHngqGkoYoaYp31uMGL4j56K3aBpsNWhcaxuTaV DRjCEsrEE5yfgGsM0PJOlciEjL3w+SWgA67t+8q9WoSz6yQOSH2m2V8Q+Zgp3G6oWYfx dPBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ylfu0wyBOnyKRIW22ftIZbn54sHZADEZhKB3cV0TRTw=; b=ev1sZSONjAUBQYkDSlvZdKyrJgAFsl3covLvqtuiwhR0HJScgBAfz5HjVIWveGiXw3 X2CzbEOW3yZO4//ozUCrmgU2PQRiINI3b8DnKTvY7f1JajYQthoom6INfgL5iikOd3M/ MFMsHlgB16v0O/1eQB38TI8eTlg5bJAplIrvia0qHQ8VZNl/i5H7tfckTYLgpfETOaFb wBWNaYTUpvSY4QltxXbMu3M+QTvH2dHcb1otbazXohF72d0zyGpaZb8WETqVnTOSw6ah 7IRsHYxfZ/EEYI1Zp2RlSh2zGOEVwCg4f2K8RhCdTL0jlSmLGTqTm8XaghywB7ih9rpV 3NBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4JvbYPzeTqhuyvUXbj5YfgPxmWt7/YZaIOForZiHVqPsnPa1oS 8iGIMpmkBn4VD1HFFnjcqi13OraZ2lLks5X0OYs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZQNk1lKWb+/pVWPdakkIKR5u0vN2SdEN194ajlDYtpXZ/ErL8WvUmumuFD9PjAvsUcSJN/71+FW5iHYs3R1Lw= X-Received: by 10.55.65.22 with SMTP id o22mr27116416qka.272.1511262817068; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: anaminaburo@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.0.149 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 03:13:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Ana Minaburo Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 12:13:16 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cJGl5yePM4irBMtzhzrFK6d-W08 Message-ID: To: C Ad Cc: lp-wan , cedric.adjih@inria.fr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114ac4905fabc8055e7c4bf6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lp-wan] Quick comments on draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 11:13:40 -0000 --001a114ac4905fabc8055e7c4bf6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks for your comments, I've integrated most of them, as the text is changing and we are adding missing things Ana On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, C Ad wrote: > Dear all, > > After reading parts of this draft, I would have the following > comments/questions: > > I'm using lines numbers as in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adjih/ > SCHC/numbered-draft/draft-ietf-lpwan-ipv6-static-context-hc-07-lines.txt, > here are comments on: > > 946 been received or not. FCN set to All-0 and All-1 fragments are > set > -> Slightly confusing with "All-0" and "All-1"; > -> in general, maybe it is possible to differentiate in the text between > the true fragment counter (that never takes the value "All-1") and > something like an "advertized FCN field" that could be "All-1" ? (or > "fragment index in window" vs "FCN"). > > > 880 fragments format this field has a size of R - T - N - 1 *** > bits when > > -> computations on R,T,N are presented before R,T,N are defined > -> moreover these names may not be obvious: R=
, T= size>, N= > -> is there a reason to introduce and use R (
) instead of: > using , and compute 'R' when needed (which is actually maybe > not needed in the current draft)? > -> does the draft specifies constraints for R,T,N (such as >0 orw >=0)? > > > 1188 one with FCN set to MAX_WIND_FCN. Also note that, in Window > mode, > > -> how is MAX_WIND_FCN defined ? > > > 547 Otherwise, the next rule is tested. If no eligible rule is > found, > 548 then the header must be sent without compression, in which > case > 549 the fragmentation process must*** be required. > > -> minor question: "must" or "is likely to" ? If the packet is small, it > might still fit without compression ? > > > 903 field is an unsigned integer, with a size of N bits. In the No > ACK > 904 mode it is set to 1 bit (N=1). [...] > > -> minor question: isn't it still possible (even if it makes little > sense), to keep larger FCNs in No ACK mode ? > in which case that could be written as: "In the No ACK mode, it SHOULD be > set to 1 bit (N=1)" > > .................................................. > > Possible typos (noted by ***): > > 817 the fragment receiver after a window of fragments have*** been > sent. A > > 877 the fragmentation mode used, also to idenitfy*** fragments from > ACK and > > 878 Abort frames. The*** also allows to interleave non-fragmented > IPv6 > > 890 value when all the bits equals*** 0 (all-0) denotes the last > fragment of > > 891 the windonw*** in any window mode or the fragments in No ACK > mode. The > > 1390 case an all-0 fragmet*** is sent and the timer is set. The > sender > > 1386 bitmap is set. The send*** state can be leaved*** for > different reasons > 1387 (for both reasons it goes to WAIT BITMAP STATE): > -> "The SEND state is left, always for the WAIT BITMAP STATE, in the > following two cases:" > > 919 same value for all fragments carrying the same IPv6 datagram, > allows*** > -> "and allows" > > 823 by the fragment sender, the latter retransmits an all-1 empty > 824 fragment, which serves as an ACK request. [...] > -> "the latter sends an ACK request (which as the format of an "all-1" > empty fragment). > > Spurious "newlines" at lines: 907, 1367 > > .................................................. > > thank you, > regards, > -- Cedric Adjih > > > _______________________________________________ > lp-wan mailing list > lp-wan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lp-wan > > --001a114ac4905fabc8055e7c4bf6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for your comments, I've integrated most of them= , as the text is changing and we are adding missing things


Ana

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, C Ad &l= t;c.adjih@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
De= ar all,

After reading parts of this draft, I would have = the following comments/questions:






=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /div>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0547 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Otherwise, the next rule is tested.=C2=A0 I= f no eligible rule is found,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0548 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 then the header must be sent = without compression, in which case
=C2=A0 =C2=A0549 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the fragmentation proce= ss must*** be required.

-> minor question: &quo= t;must" or "is likely to" ? If the packet is small, it might= still fit without compression ?


= =C2=A0 =C2=A0903 =C2=A0 =C2=A0f= ield is an unsigned integer, with a size of N bits.=C2=A0 In the No ACK
=C2=A0 =C2=A0904 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0mode it is set to 1 bit (N=3D1). [...]

->= minor question: isn't it still possible (even if it makes little sense= ), to keep larger FCNs in No ACK mode ?
in which case that could = be written as: "In the No ACK mode, it SHOULD be set to 1 bit (N=3D1)&= quot;

.......................................= ...........

Possible typos (noted by ***):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0817 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the fragment receiver after a window of fragments have*** = been sent.=C2=A0 A

=C2=A0 =C2=A0877 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the fragmentation mode used, als= o to idenitfy*** fragments from ACK and

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0878 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Abort frame= s.=C2=A0 The*** also allows to interleave non-fragmented IPv6
=C2=A0 =C2=A0890 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0value when all the bits equals*** 0 (all-0) denotes the last f= ragment of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0891 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the windonw*** in any window mo= de or the fragments in No ACK mode.=C2=A0 The

=C2= =A0 1390 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 c= ase an all-0 fragmet*** is sent and the timer is set.=C2=A0 The sender

=C2=A0 1386 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bitmap is set.=C2=A0 The send*** state can be leaved*** for = different reasons
=C2=A0 1387 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(for both reasons it goes to WAIT BITMAP STATE):
-> "The SEND state is left, always for the WAIT BITMAP STATE,= in the following two cases:"

=C2=A0 =C2=A091= 9 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same value for a= ll fragments carrying the same IPv6 datagram, allows***
-> &qu= ot;and allows"

=C2=A0 =C2=A0823 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by the fragment sender, the lat= ter retransmits an all-1 empty
=C2=A0 =C2=A0824 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fragment, which serves as an ACK re= quest.=C2=A0 [...]
-> "the latter sends an ACK request (w= hich as the format of an "all-1" empty fragment).

--001a114ac4905fabc8055e7c4bf6-- From nobody Tue Nov 28 07:19:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lp-wan@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB50126D3F for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 07:19:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHOTdTBeu27D for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CB7C120727 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:6c69:c0cd:de39:b4ce] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:6c69:c0cd:de39:b4ce]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48C70A80ED for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:19:44 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:19:44 +0100 To: lp-wan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [lp-wan] Reminder next interim + call for agenda items X-BeenThere: lp-wan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Low-Power Wide Area Networking \(LP-WAN\), also known as LPWA or Low-Rate WAN \(LR-WAN\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:19:49 -0000 Dear all, Next week we are restarting our interim meetings. The time slot is the = same as before IETF100 - Tuesdays, 17h-18h CET. We have scheduled = meetings every two weeks (as already announced on the ML). On the agenda we will have items related to Fragmentation + potentially = other items, which were present on the agenda. If you would like to include an item for the agenda, please send a mail = with topic + requested duration by Nov 29th, 17h (5PM) UTC. Best, The Chairs