From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 15:52:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISHyG-0000cs-Ab; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:52:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISHyF-0000XT-3n for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:52:27 -0400 Received: from web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISHyD-0006cb-Mt for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:52:27 -0400 Received: (qmail 87957 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2007 19:52:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=MOZO18VLWfgvK0wW0ut8aU7zRvU57/IAXOI3crMlNewTHcd6C1INFPrR8Lp0s+IlDfQ5y4PuyDdDXyIuxvqSLcQy3ceMy03jtyErvBleX6SL0ovkOftWUjXFZPEkTkh52XHJRchaaXZSsQllGAVGcZ/JeiJhea/XnY8oPuBSz5Q=; X-YMail-OSG: PjSA2ugVM1kaQ6wCzu.cpCe0QQHBNV58cM38TlD247K80CDF58q7a.nwu.DcLxs1I1S3ihMPlULb_AJr7sTJ7q3JapLtcp7.BY99czIamznFMTfyt7U- Received: from [71.123.247.57] by web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:52:24 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:52:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <110407.87571.qm@web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Subject: [multimob] Get back to work X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1219932218==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1219932218== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-831048240-1188849144=:87571" --0-831048240-1188849144=:87571 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all,=0A Now that the summer is almost over, we need to get back to wo= rk and give an end to the silence on the list .=0A As we are aiming at a = BOF meeting in Vancouver, Suresh and I would like to solicit people to subm= it drafts on the problems, analysis and most importantly on the solutions. = Please submit your draft, announce it here and try to create some discussio= n.=0A Regards,=0A=0ABehcet=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Suresh= Krishnan =0ATo: multimob@ietf.org=0ASent: Tu= esday, July 31, 2007 5:24:07 PM=0ASubject: [multimob] multimob@IETF69 Meeti= ng summary=0A=0AHi Folks,=0A Here is a summary of the multimob meeting we= had at IETF69. It is a =0Asubjective view of what happened at the meeting.= Let me know if you have =0Aany issues, comments, or corrections.=0A=0Amult= imob@IETF69 Summary=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe goal of the bar BOF was to identify the problems t= hat need to be =0Asolved in the near future. The secondary goal of the bar = BOF was to =0Aidentify the working groups in the IETF that can do the work = (if any). =0AThe attendance for the bar BOF was as expected (27 people) cov= ering =0Aresearchers, implementers and operators. The problem statements we= re =0Apresented. The presentations were followed, and sometimes interrupted= , =0Aby related discussions.=0A=0A=0AThree approaches to multicast mobility= were discussed=0A=0A* Remote Subscription=0A* Bidirectional tunneling=0A* = Agent based=0A=0ASome of the people in the meeting believed that the proble= ms to be =0Asolved need to be defined by the operator (The majority,I belie= ve). =0AThere were other vocal critics who believed that this is not the ri= ght =0Aapproach to follow since the operators typically lag behind in multi= cast.=0A=0AAfter the ensuing discussions, it became clear that the problems= that =0Aneed to be solved are the following=0A=0A* Receiver mobility=0A = Issues due to latency=0A * join latency - can be fixed with link layer in= dicators=0A * leave latency - much harder to fix, may require changes to = MLD,PIM=0A=0A* SSM issues with mobility=0A=0AProblems which are out of scop= e for now=0A=0A* Sender mobility=0A=0AThese problems can theoretically be s= olved by extensions to existing =0Aunicast mobility protocols like {,f,h,p}= mipv6 and extensions to =0Amulticast protocols like MLD and pmip6.=0A=0ACon= clusion=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AWe need to put in further effort= to investigate if these fall under the =0Acharter of current working group= s or not. We also need to come up with a =0Acollective list of requirements= to work on. Further work will be done on =0Athe mailing list.=0A=0A=0AChee= rs=0ASuresh=0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0Amulti= mob mailing list=0Amultimob@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/multimob=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-831048240-1188849144=:87571 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,
  Now that the summer is almost over= , we need to get back to work  and give an end to the silence on the l= ist .=
  As we are aiming at a BOF meeting in Vancouver, Suresh and I wou= ld like to solicit people to submit drafts on the problems, analysis and mo= st importantly on the solutions. Please submit your draft, announce it here= and try to create some discussion.
  Regards,

Behcet
----- Original Message ----
From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.kr= ishnan@ericsson.com>
To: multimob@ietf.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:24:07 PM
Subject: [multimob] multimob@IETF69 Meeting summary
=
Hi Folks,
   Here is a summary of the multimob meetin= g we had at IETF69. It is a
subjective view of what happened at the mee= ting. Let me know if you have
any issues, comments, or corrections.
=
multimob@IETF69 Summary
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
The goal of the bar BOF was to identify the = problems that need to be
solved in the near future. The secondary goal = of the bar BOF was to
identify the working groups in the IETF that can = do the work (if any).
The attendance for the bar BOF was as expected (2= 7 people) covering
researchers, implementers and operators. The problem= statements were
presented. The presentations were followed, and someti= mes interrupted,
by related discussions.


Three approaches to= multicast mobility were discussed

* Remote Subscription
* Bidire= ctional tunneling
* Agent based

Some of the people in the meeting believed that the problems = to be
solved need to be defined by the operator (The majority,I believe= ).
There were other vocal critics who believed that this is not the rig= ht
approach to follow since the operators typically lag behind in multi= cast.

After the ensuing discussions, it became clear that the proble= ms that
need to be solved are the following

* Receiver mobility<= br>   Issues due to latency
   * join latency - can = be fixed with link layer indicators
   * leave latency - much = harder to fix, may require changes to MLD,PIM

* SSM issues with mobi= lity

Problems which are out of scope for now

* Sender mobilit= y

These problems can theoretically be solved by extensions to existi= ng
unicast mobility protocols like {,f,h,p}mipv6 and extensions to
= multicast protocols like MLD and pmip6.

Conclusion
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
We need to p= ut in further effort to investigate if these fall under the
charter of = current working groups or not. We also need to come up with a
collectiv= e list of requirements to work on. Further work will be done on
the mai= ling list.


Cheers
Suresh


_________________________= ______________________
multimob mailing list
multimob@ietf.org
= https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob

--0-831048240-1188849144=:87571-- --===============1219932218== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1219932218==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 15:58:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISI3o-0005Mr-L8; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:58:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISI3n-0005Mh-36 for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:58:11 -0400 Received: from web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.189]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISI3l-0006ih-QP for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:58:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 93352 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2007 19:58:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=OvFbZEAk4EmHKJg/jQVtEHYxB+6PplI4dfZ+Ld4LzR566YK7KKITqLpkZYIDfuklimhgF39tPYRQrCwOhKluaRPU8ExzzI4aqyHIZal530xkpVgePm8b72riPcJTTVBAMh2rd1VitWSlVxzL+xuGSckbygx+P9bf8d5G6oHc7cE=; X-YMail-OSG: fQL7nlUVM1lPcI3Mcw0OGehyL6Ld8en445qxl6wxwnW.XZ8.XTX.YQDjEPYGNLZxpRn2gcY8tQ-- Received: from [71.123.247.57] by web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:58:09 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0908936675==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0908936675== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-707482488-1188849489=:92942" --0-707482488-1188849489=:92942 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all,=0A I remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at= Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all cellular = links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX, =0A=0Aa) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links? =0A=0Ab)= if yes, should the designs of these protocols be revisited?=0A=0AChip in = your views here.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0ABehcet=0A=0A --0-707482488-1188849489=:92942 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,
  I remember this has shortly been dis= cussed in the pre-BOF at Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is th= e case for all cellular links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX,

a) do we need IGMP/= MLD on PtP links?

b) if yes,  should the designs of these prot= ocols be revisited?

Chip in your views here.

Thanks,

B= ehcet
--0-707482488-1188849489=:92942-- --===============0908936675== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0908936675==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 16:06:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISIBt-0003j9-4Z; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:06:33 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISIBs-0003j4-Ag for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:06:32 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISIBr-00056R-P9 for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:06:32 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Sep 2007 13:06:31 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.20,202,1186383600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="211336148:sNHT67555143" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l83K6Vsg022595; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:31 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l83K6V5x017994; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 20:06:31 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-22c.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.47]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:30 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.16] ([10.21.67.231]) by xmb-sjc-22c.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Message-Id: From: John Zwiebel Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 13:06:29 -0700 To: Behcet Sarikaya X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2007 20:06:30.0684 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB1A85C0:01C7EE65] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3685; t=1188849991; x=1189713991; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jzwiebel@cisco.com; z=From:=20John=20Zwiebel=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[multimob]=20IGMP/MLD=20on=20PtP=20Links |Sender:=20; bh=IWcWHTB4+yQ5RzceHNbnVc2ue489gio03vB6fflvay8=; b=ewXMOggxmw6ew/2Sd/3xRK3OUQJa7JMyqpNuOK8+jrJYCzsWSyL94IYIObsBM6ROjPyI/boa rK10zK3T/3kTQD9fHmB9c72Vie9+CireLq6jF8H9Z8UsIVbUYn+oWMm/mjQ2cHbNj4ir+WRG+6 mXBxlNMTxtUlC1OvVFipuNKNk=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=jzwiebel@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1134197231==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1134197231== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-25-89391941 --Apple-Mail-25-89391941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Sep 3, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > I remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at > Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all > cellular links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX, > > a) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links? assuming a host on one end and a router/switch on the other, you need something to signal the host's desire to receive multicast. It doesn't have to be IGMP/MLD. > b) if yes, should the designs of these protocols be revisited? In what way? One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate leave" meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave. And explicit host tracking is available for IGMPv3. --Apple-Mail-25-89391941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sep 3, 2007, at = 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:

=A0 I remember this has shortly been discussed in the = pre-BOF at Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for = all cellular links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX,

a) do we need = IGMP/MLD on PtP links?

assuming a host on one end and a = router/switch on the other, you need=A0
something to signal = the host's desire to receive multicast.=A0 It doesn't
have to = be IGMP/MLD.

b) if yes,=A0 should the designs of these protocols = be revisited?

In what = way?

One can = already configure the router/switch end for "immediate = leave"
meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a = leave.=A0 And explicit
host tracking is available for = IGMPv3.
= --Apple-Mail-25-89391941-- --===============1134197231== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1134197231==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 17:09:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISJAW-0001Tt-Aj; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:09:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISJAV-0001S0-0K for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:09:11 -0400 Received: from web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.198]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISJAT-0008Uk-OV for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:09:10 -0400 Received: (qmail 42135 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2007 21:09:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=rt67H3Mh8piVKJ/lUsEinAWAEpV7XCYRNxzADnsnaYpoSxBcPdBHFJJAx8dct2fNAG4mKdInmZ1fDg9knxmo/LneWyBx0E+JcyM9pSmelcoBi/SECB0MN7AzJZ6EnJQl77/TaSQOLKg/eU6hGKMGdwlkmPX0VihjT6Ka6Zf3Nkk=; X-YMail-OSG: lSEbv5cVM1nksEpQ4ccfUuXRILvLUAHMMOz0FtDu6.38YpS2GSmN0Q1nqtAeKn7VujO0p9Hlvw-- Received: from [71.123.247.57] by web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:09:08 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <179646.42130.qm@web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [multimob] DNAv6 X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0171118089==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0171118089== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1761637012-1188853748=:42130" --0-1761637012-1188853748=:42130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=0A DNA charter mentions MLD state as part of IP layer configuratio= n information. In DNAv6 protocol (draft-ietf-dna-protocol-06) however MLD s= eems to be restricted to solicited_node_multicast_address related operation= s.=0A My question is: =0Aa) are there MLD state related DNAv6 issues in mu= lticast mobility? =0Ab) Should we consider including DNAv6 which is another= IP layer protocol into the scope of multimob for possible extensions?=0A= =0AComments are welcome.=0A=0ABehcet=0A=0A --0-1761637012-1188853748=:42130 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
  DNA charter mentions MLD state as part = of IP layer configuration information. In DNAv6 protocol (draft-ietf-dna-pr= otocol-06) however MLD seems to be restricted to solicited_node_multicast_a= ddress related operations.
  My question is:
a) are there MLD s= tate related DNAv6 issues in multicast mobility?
b) Should we consider = including DNAv6 which is another IP layer protocol into the scope of multim= ob for possible extensions?

Comments are welcome.

Behcet
<= /div>
--0-1761637012-1188853748=:42130-- --===============0171118089== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0171118089==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Mon Sep 03 18:34:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISKUb-0000XR-OE; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:34:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISKUb-0000XM-9b for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:34:01 -0400 Received: from [2001:418:1:0:230:48ff:fe82:537e] (helo=nagasaki.bogus.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISKUa-00021m-RS for multimob@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:34:01 -0400 Received: from [192.168.11.103] (c-24-22-104-127.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [24.22.104.127]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.1/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l83MXUAo040928; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:33:31 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <46DC8BBA.6090900@bogus.com> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:33:30 -0700 From: Joel Jaeggli User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Zwiebel Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links References: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.1/4140/Mon Sep 3 17:59:33 2007 on nagasaki.bogus.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org John Zwiebel wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > >> I remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at >> Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all >> cellular links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX, >> >> a) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links? > > assuming a host on one end and a router/switch on the other, you need > something to signal the host's desire to receive multicast. It doesn't > have to be IGMP/MLD. A host in a ptp situation could use pim, but igmpv3/mldv2 to seem like they've been blessed with being the host signaling protocol I'm not sure that being connected over l2tp or pppoe would make a difference. >> b) if yes, should the designs of these protocols be revisited? > > In what way? > > One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate leave" > meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave. And explicit > host tracking is available for IGMPv3. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 09:19:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISYJU-0003n3-UT; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:19:28 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISYJS-0003RQ-Ov for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:19:26 -0400 Received: from [80.81.115.248] (helo=soportemv.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISYJR-0000Yb-4F for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:19:26 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:18:31 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Thread-Index: AcfuZe3UBxFrPujLQoqCqtRsK/tRgQAjtg6u References: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Alvaro Fernandez" To: "John Zwiebel" , "Behcet Sarikaya" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 42e3ed3f10a1d8bef690f09da16f507a Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1582239732==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1582239732== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7EEF6.16ECC581" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EEF6.16ECC581 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: =20 John said: =20 One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate leave" meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave. And explicit host tracking is available for IGMPv3. =20 When you say this, are you referring to IGMPv3 RFC 3376 or to "ip igmp = explicit-tracking" command in Cisco routers? The Cisco manual do not = explain very well this command. =20 " Explicit host tracking" is a different feature in Cisco Routers or is = the normal host tracking explained in RFC 3376? =20 Thanks and regards Alvaro =20 ________________________________ De: John Zwiebel [mailto:jzwiebel@cisco.com] Enviado el: lun 03/09/2007 22:06 Para: Behcet Sarikaya CC: multimob@ietf.org Asunto: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links On Sep 3, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: I remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at Chicago. = If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all cellular links = 3gpp/2 and WiMAX,=20 =09 a) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links?=20 =09 assuming a host on one end and a router/switch on the other, you need=20 something to signal the host's desire to receive multicast. It doesn't have to be IGMP/MLD. b) if yes, should the designs of these protocols be revisited? =09 In what way? One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate leave" meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave. And explicit host tracking is available for IGMPv3. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EEF6.16ECC581 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
=0A=
Hi:
=0A=
 
=0A=
John = said:
=0A=
 
=0A=
=0A=
One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate = leave"
=0A=
meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave.  = And explicit
=0A=
host tracking is available for IGMPv3.
=0A=
 
=0A=
When you say this, are you referring to IGMPv3 RFC 3376 or to "ip = igmp explicit-tracking" command in Cisco routers? The Cisco manual do = not explain very well this command.
=0A=
 
=0A=
" Explicit host tracking"  is a different feature in = Cisco Routers or is the normal host tracking explained in RFC = 3376?
=0A=
 
=0A=
Thanks and regards
=0A=
Alvaro
=0A=
 
=0A=

=0A=
=0A= De: John Zwiebel = [mailto:jzwiebel@cisco.com]
Enviado el: lun 03/09/2007 = 22:06
Para: Behcet Sarikaya
CC: = multimob@ietf.org
Asunto: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP = Links

=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
On Sep 3, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:

=0A=
  I = remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at Chicago. If = the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all cellular links = 3gpp/2 and WiMAX,

a) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links? =
=0A=

assuming a host on one = end and a router/switch on the other, you need 
=0A=
something to signal the host's desire to receive multicast.  = It doesn't
=0A=
have to be IGMP/MLD.
=0A=

=0A=
b) if yes,  = should the designs of these protocols be revisited?

=0A=
In what way?
=0A=

=0A=
One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate = leave"
=0A=
meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave.  And = explicit
=0A=
host tracking is available for IGMPv3.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EEF6.16ECC581-- --===============1582239732== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1582239732==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 12:39:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbR0-00069f-1r; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:39:26 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbQy-00069a-GJ for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:39:24 -0400 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbQy-0006CT-2O for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:39:24 -0400 Received: from [63.105.122.7] (account marshall_eubanks HELO [IPv6:::1]) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 8404454; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:39:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Eubanks Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:39:15 -0400 To: John Zwiebel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org On Sep 3, 2007, at 4:06 PM, John Zwiebel wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > >> I remember this has shortly been discussed in the pre-BOF at >> Chicago. If the link is point-to-point as it is the case for all >> cellular links 3gpp/2 and WiMAX, >> >> a) do we need IGMP/MLD on PtP links? > > assuming a host on one end and a router/switch on the other, you need > something to signal the host's desire to receive multicast. It > doesn't > have to be IGMP/MLD. But it there a good reason why it shouldn't be ? I am sending this email from a Laptop attached to a Sprint EVD0 device. If this supported Multimob, what it is the benefit of translating the box's IGMP to some other, yet to be defined protocol ? It has taken us almost a decade to move from IGMPv2 to v3 and we are not entirely there yet. Don't introduce another multicast edge protocol unless you are forced to. Regards Marshall > >> b) if yes, should the designs of these protocols be revisited? > > In what way? > > One can already configure the router/switch end for "immediate leave" > meaning no waiting for any reports to overrule a leave. And explicit > host tracking is available for IGMPv3. > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 12:47:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbYj-0006Wi-Rd; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:47:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbYi-0006Wb-33 for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:47:24 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISbYg-0006VQ-HL for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:47:24 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Sep 2007 09:47:22 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.20,207,1186383600"; d="scan'208"; a="211891183:sNHT138774654" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l84GlLTY013651; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:47:21 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l84GlJ65014988; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:47:21 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-22c.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.47]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:47:19 -0700 Received: from [171.70.225.118] ([171.70.225.118]) by xmb-sjc-22c.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:47:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <419492.92942.qm@web84102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Zwiebel Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:47:19 -0700 To: Marshall Eubanks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2007 16:47:19.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[42390A40:01C7EF13] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=336; t=1188924441; x=1189788441; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jzwiebel@cisco.com; z=From:=20John=20Zwiebel=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[multimob]=20IGMP/MLD=20on=20PtP=20Links |Sender:=20; bh=FXk2pRXcxSybQtMk1aef8GxijtK07eOs+SvrIz69Iwk=; b=1VYyRx1FV0pJqvyJBED9Hzyk5Nn7jonTGFrG0LlYjEBNYn1yl/6iD7j/Jt9NuIoFv6+G7gjU dpsgTgCL6zF3bydWEBAPCqgZntXQwONk+jkQgi+CiQobggwvCWM44eat; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2; header.From=jzwiebel@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > > But it there a good reason why it shouldn't be ? What you meant was, "why not use IGMPv3 for multimob". I couldn't begin to guess, which was why I asked why Behcet was suggesting IGMP be modified. ie, what is it he thinks is broken in IGMP that needs to be fixed. _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 04 15:36:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISeCO-0003OR-Co; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:36:32 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISeCN-0003OK-LF for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:36:31 -0400 Received: from web84113.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.200]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISeCM-0002Ny-SG for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:36:31 -0400 Received: (qmail 14646 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2007 19:36:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=zT/p7sy6S8Jlc+QQAxZYTY4DhvUcFdl2Y6/zlZ0jNF8gHGzBaPm6neAT6khihgwM4yxcWINGcmkddFN1WNpVNECGDYzvOWyyyBhngkRH9N20xFF6SCYe/9ZeR7ryC3j4L55mE84lUcv/JOdFaczO8LZ/80WFr7rPih5gIsjaZMU=; X-YMail-OSG: CJj4IHAVM1mPSN.4GpoYaIfYCIYpAtZpaV.qGWoo9Rc8EAoKOvNDRSzZbg5KC3UqFmrZ1U6WoTArpx5cmmwA9Bn.yLOrgeTvQN2Sew10pC75WSs- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web84113.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:36:29 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links To: John Zwiebel MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <219972.14164.qm@web84113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0269439946==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0269439946== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1531767772-1188934589=:14164" --0-1531767772-1188934589=:14164 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John Zwiebel = =0ATo: Marshall Eubanks =0ACc: John Zwiebel ; Behcet Sarikaya ; multimob@ietf.org=0ASent= : Tuesday, September 4, 2007 11:47:19 AM=0ASubject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD= on PtP Links=0A=0A=0AOn Sep 4, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:= =0A=0A>=0A> But it there a good reason why it shouldn't be ?=0A=0AWhat you = meant was, "why not use IGMPv3 for multimob".=0A=0AI couldn't begin to gues= s, which was why I asked why=0ABehcet was suggesting IGMP be modified. ie,= what=0Ais it he thinks is broken in IGMP that needs to be fixed.=0A=0A=0A= =0A[behcet] I was referring to Tony's draft: http://ietfreport.isoc.org/all= -ids/draft-zhang-multimob-memcast-ps-00.txt=0AMLD state is currently link b= ased which is OK for shared links and Tony argued that MN-based MLD (IGMP) = state will simplify MLD behaviour.=0A=0AAny thoughts on this?=0A=0A--behcet= =0A=0A --0-1531767772-1188934589=:14164 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


----- Original Message ----
From: J= ohn Zwiebel <jzwiebel@cisco.com>
To: Marshall Eubanks <tme@mult= icasttech.com>
Cc: John Zwiebel <jzwiebel@cisco.com>; Behcet Sa= rikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>; multimob@ietf.org
Sent: Tuesday, Septe= mber 4, 2007 11:47:19 AM
Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links

On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:39 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

&= gt;
> But it there a good reason why it shouldn't be ?

What yo= u meant was, "why not use IGMPv3 for multimob".

I couldn't begin to = guess, which was why I asked why
Behcet was suggesting IGMP be modified.  ie, what
is it he thinks is broken in IGMP that ne= eds to be fixed.

[behcet] I was referring to Tony'= s draft: http://ietfreport.isoc.org/all-ids/dr= aft-zhang-multimob-memcast-ps-00.txt
MLD state is currently l= ink based which is OK for shared links and Tony argued that MN-based MLD (I= GMP) state will simplify MLD behaviour.

Any thoughts on this?
--behcet
--0-1531767772-1188934589=:14164-- --===============0269439946== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0269439946==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 09:44:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISvBA-00062Z-Ef; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:44:24 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISvB9-00062U-3X for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:44:23 -0400 Received: from [80.81.115.248] (helo=soportemv.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISvB8-0006CG-GP for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:44:22 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:44:11 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Thread-Index: Acfvwtb4jZd8zXwURIC11v6J9aj8nw== From: "Alvaro Fernandez" To: X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0343718132==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0343718132== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC2.D6FFCD0A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC2.D6FFCD0A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IGMPv3 is not perfect.=20 =20 Every month there are 3 new patent applications related with IGMPv3 = published in espacenet. Around 35-40 every year, and some of them have = interesting new features. =20 And, from my point of view, IGMPv3 Requested List for exclude sources ( = exclude sources with timer >0) is a bad solution to keep track of = include sources. (Appendix A, A.3). =20 Regards Alvaro ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC2.D6FFCD0A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
IGMPv3 is not perfect. =
=0A=
 
=0A=
Every month there = are 3 new patent applications related with IGMPv3 published in = espacenet. Around 35-40 every year, and some of them have interesting = new features.
=0A=
 
=0A=
And, from my point of view, IGMPv3 = Requested List for exclude sources ( exclude sources with timer >0) =  is a bad solution to keep track of include sources. (Appendix A, = A.3).
=0A=
 
=0A=
Regards
=0A=
Alvaro
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC2.D6FFCD0A-- --===============0343718132== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0343718132==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 12:50:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISy5F-0001bD-W8; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:50:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISy5E-0001b8-Fd for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:50:28 -0400 Received: from web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.188]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISy5D-0002So-KV for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:50:28 -0400 Received: (qmail 28455 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Sep 2007 16:50:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=WfU0kaegRxAlTgldHAd9iNRRGiF6Zoqim8oktVfigHiBP8d+FfjvJvZh05ZoKWsEQtRwyl2BsgsAq1XrRBbbX+9GtQoKCCpnYiHFXT3fyesPmlsme449QbqHDiUdez6ZZhjabsUMDph/qCgAsfI3HqrR8v5NEOBZ4hkIIiQdGmU=; X-YMail-OSG: rYyDGjAVM1msFf11HAImUig9.OGYC8xQDX5JSOWZ3es05eKMVvEYSRGIeLVnLFQcMc7CzQ-- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:50:26 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:50:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links To: Alvaro Fernandez MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <883220.25875.qm@web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0448358962==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0448358962== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1671031997-1189011026=:25875" --0-1671031997-1189011026=:25875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alvaro, =0A Have you looked at the light-weight versions of IGMPv3 & MLDv2= defined in draft-ietf-mboned-lightweight-igmpv3-mldv2-01 in mboned WG? IGM= Pv3 can be and is being modified with interoperability with full versions i= n mind.=0A=0ABut it seems that this work has not considered PtP links. We p= robably need other extensions for mobility. These issues as they apply main= ly to MLDv2 are within the scope of Multimob.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ABehcet=0A= =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Alvaro Fernandez =0ATo: multimob@ietf.org=0ASent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 8:44:11 AM= =0ASubject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AIGMPv3 is n= ot perfect. =0A=0A =0A=0AEvery month there are 3 new patent applications re= lated with IGMPv3 published in espacenet. Around 35-40 every year, and some= of them have interesting new features.=0A=0A =0A=0AAnd, from my point of v= iew, IGMPv3 Requested List for exclude sources ( exclude sources with timer= >0) is a bad solution to keep track of include sources. (Appendix A, A.3)= .=0A=0A =0A=0ARegards=0A=0AAlvaro=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-1671031997-1189011026=:25875 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alvaro,
  Have you looked at the light-weight= versions of IGMPv3 & MLDv2 defined in draft-ietf-mboned-lightweight-ig= mpv3-mldv2-01 in mboned WG? IGMPv3 can be and is being modified with intero= perability with full versions in mind.

But it seems that this work h= as not considered PtP links. We probably need other extensions for mobility= . These issues as they apply mainly to MLDv2 are within the scope of Multim= ob.

Regards,

Behcet

----- Original Message ---= -
From: Alvaro Fernandez <Alvaro@soportemv.com>
To: multimob@ie= tf.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 8:44:11 AM
Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links

=0A =0A=0A
IGMPv3 is not perfect.
=0A
=  
=0AEvery month there are&n= bsp;3 new patent applications related with IGMPv3 published in espacenet. A= round 35-40 every year, and some of them have interesting new features.
=0A
 
=0AAnd, from my point of view, IGMPv3 Request= ed List for exclude sources ( exclude sources with timer >0)  is a = bad solution to keep track of include sources. (Appendix A, A.3).=0A
 
=0A
Regards
=0A
Alvaro

--0-1671031997-1189011026=:25875-- --===============0448358962== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0448358962==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 17:19:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT2HP-0000Rs-Cg; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:19:19 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT2HO-0000Qj-Qz for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:19:18 -0400 Received: from [80.81.115.248] (helo=soportemv.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT2HN-0003Hw-HL for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:19:18 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:16:41 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Thread-Index: Acfv3N3QlhGSaz5gSYWGQrAZVVPaDQAJS/Jq References: <883220.25875.qm@web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Alvaro Fernandez" To: "Behcet Sarikaya" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0915034348==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0915034348== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7F002.64AC98B1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F002.64AC98B1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Behcet, =20 I just read it. It is interesting but I am not sure this is the best = way. =20 I think IGMPv3 was designed thinking how to save RAM in routers and this = is the reason of the complexity when it mixes include and exclude = sources in one record. 15 years ago the cost of 1MB of ram was around = 40$ but now you have 4GB for this price. =20 PIM-SM, for example, has different state machines for Join(S,G) and = Join(*,G) and those state machine are more simple than IGMPv3 state = machine. =20 Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the draft: = with more filter modes, each one with its own state machine. =20 Regards Alvaro ________________________________ De: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com] Enviado el: mi=E9 05/09/2007 18:50 Para: Alvaro Fernandez CC: multimob@ietf.org Asunto: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links Alvaro,=20 Have you looked at the light-weight versions of IGMPv3 & MLDv2 defined = in draft-ietf-mboned-lightweight-igmpv3-mldv2-01 in mboned WG? IGMPv3 = can be and is being modified with interoperability with full versions in = mind. But it seems that this work has not considered PtP links. We probably = need other extensions for mobility. These issues as they apply mainly to = MLDv2 are within the scope of Multimob. Regards, Behcet ----- Original Message ---- From: Alvaro Fernandez To: multimob@ietf.org Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 8:44:11 AM Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links IGMPv3 is not perfect.=20 =20 Every month there are 3 new patent applications related with IGMPv3 = published in espacenet. Around 35-40 every year, and some of them have = interesting new features. =20 And, from my point of view, IGMPv3 Requested List for exclude sources ( = exclude sources with timer >0) is a bad solution to keep track of = include sources. (Appendix A, A.3). =20 Regards Alvaro ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F002.64AC98B1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
=0A=
=0A=

Behcet,

=0A=

 

=0A=

I = just read it. It is interesting but I am not sure this is the best = way.

=0A=

 

=0A=

I = think IGMPv3 was designed thinking how to save RAM in routers and this = is the reason of the complexity when it mixes include and exclude = sources in one record. 15 years ago the cost of 1MB of ram was around = 40$ but now you have 4GB for this price.

=0A=

 

=0A=

PIM-SM, for example, has different state machines for Join(S,G) = and Join(*,G) and those state machine are more simple than IGMPv3 state = machine.

=0A=

 

=0A=

Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the = opposite way of the draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own = state machine.

=0A=

 

=0A=

Regards

=0A=

Alvaro

=0A=

=0A=
=0A= De: Behcet Sarikaya = [mailto:behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com]
Enviado el: mi=E9 05/09/2007 = 18:50
Para: Alvaro Fernandez
CC: = multimob@ietf.org
Asunto: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP = Links

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Alvaro,
  Have you looked at the light-weight = versions of IGMPv3 & MLDv2 defined in = draft-ietf-mboned-lightweight-igmpv3-mldv2-01 in mboned WG? IGMPv3 can = be and is being modified with interoperability with full versions in = mind.

But it seems that this work has not considered PtP links. = We probably need other extensions for mobility. These issues as they = apply mainly to MLDv2 are within the scope of = Multimob.

Regards,

Behcet

=0A=
----- Original Message ----
From: Alvaro Fernandez = <Alvaro@soportemv.com>
To: multimob@ietf.org
Sent: = Wednesday, September 5, 2007 8:44:11 AM
Subject: Re: [multimob] = IGMP/MLD on PtP Links

=0A=
IGMPv3 is not perfect. =
=0A=
 
=0A=
Every month there = are 3 new patent applications related with IGMPv3 published in = espacenet. Around 35-40 every year, and some of them have interesting = new features.
=0A=
 
=0A=
And, from my point of view, IGMPv3 = Requested List for exclude sources ( exclude sources with timer >0) =  is a bad solution to keep track of include sources. (Appendix A, = A.3).
=0A=
 
=0A=
Regards
=0A=
Alvaro

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F002.64AC98B1-- --===============0915034348== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0915034348==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Wed Sep 05 22:35:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT7Cv-0005fX-QU; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:35:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT7Ct-0005fG-KF for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:34:59 -0400 Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([2001:200:0:8803:203:47ff:fedf:73a6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IT7Cs-0007wa-6K for multimob@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:34:59 -0400 Received: from localhost (X192138.ppp.dion.ne.jp [210.234.192.138]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D41F4D8D3; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:34:54 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:34:34 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20070906.113434.213277081.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: Alvaro@soportemv.com Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: References: <883220.25875.qm@web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org > I think IGMPv3 was designed thinking how to save RAM in routers and > this is the reason of the complexity when it mixes include and > exclude sources in one record. 15 years ago the cost of 1MB of ram > was around 40$ but now you have 4GB for this price. The aim of LW-IGMPv3/MLDv2 is not only for contribution to reduce the memory size in an end host. One of the big advantages is that it highly reduces the processing cost on the upstream switch-side or the router-side by eliminating the exclude mode operations. If both include and exclude mode operations are supported in your multicast services, your switches and routers need to maintain all source addresses joined from your end hosts. Even if an SPT is well coordinated by (S,G) joins given by SSM-capable receivers, the routers need to refresh (and re-generate) some or all of the corresponding routing paths whenever more than one of your downstream hosts requests exclude mode join. This situation gives non scalable manner. > PIM-SM, for example, has different state machines for Join(S,G) and > Join(*,G) and those state machine are more simple than IGMPv3 state > machine. State change from (*,G) to (S,G) or vice versa takes much cost. > Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the > draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own state machine. I cannot catch your point, but if it's "lightweight", then the solution might be fine. Regards, -- Hitoshi Asaeda _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 06 12:42:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKQw-000204-8K; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:42:22 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKQu-0001zz-J8 for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:42:20 -0400 Received: from web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.199]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKQu-0008IV-5x for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:42:20 -0400 Received: (qmail 4498 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2007 16:42:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=2lj3OC19yzi8Ptyk0Uv3+yQ5z9VppTwFUWRMBbSZmkNTovjkfLe02nlzSQU1a+oNj6/27pOQI3VlS+qj/lWaK7dNrTEXpi+os3dkW8M3NRKXcF8alqHAuJRy85npot5B8Knlbiy13Zaqe0ujuFuBNyjUJqeufYl7rTY8aGi5jZc=; X-YMail-OSG: dcIb5jwVM1k5f1E5B1pltJmpCPJBMXYA5yt_iSkvJGIY9bEwfBtUmTZyIRgaZYNx8CAeq22Iqw-- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:42:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <238329.97524.qm@web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [multimob] BOF Request X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0100640798==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0100640798== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-792760678-1189096939=:97524" --0-792760678-1189096939=:97524 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks,=0A We have made an official BOF request for Vancouver.=0A We need = to give a list of related drafts to the ADs. If you plan on submitting a dr= aft (even if it will be submitted later on in October), please send me and = Suresh a note with some details ASAP.=0A We will post a draft agenda and c= harter soon for discussion.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ABehcet=0A=0A --0-792760678-1189096939=:97524 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
  We have made an official BOF request for= Vancouver.
  We need to give a list of related drafts to the ADs. = If you plan on submitting a draft (even if it will be submitted later on in= October), please send me and Suresh a note with some details ASAP.
&nbs= p; We will post a draft agenda and charter soon for discussion.

Rega= rds,

Behcet
--0-792760678-1189096939=:97524-- --===============0100640798== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0100640798==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 06 12:46:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKVC-00047Q-7I; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:46:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKVA-00047H-Vm for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:46:44 -0400 Received: from web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.198]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITKV9-0004cg-Ln for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:46:44 -0400 Received: (qmail 32157 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2007 16:46:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=oB3SYKO8hg3+mFs8Bje1l4CdILU84ccOCfLo1tq9C19hps9H8tZeO+dgmbjqsR1sOE4nVUHPgjPnnHflic+wugeQEnJPp1yslbNdHzicxvMUjKI44h1VMbvxyyOaZOXQcKMZcjBUQI+AMFBRE2oTz6jW/zdkqEkF0Bon9RMXHMM=; X-YMail-OSG: _2jaqIsVM1lhT61YCNrB3m35yZBII4icoJr9yhjkDLdA_.e_Zy4axf.famh23x47Qw-- Received: from [206.16.17.212] by web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:46:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.48 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links To: Hitoshi Asaeda , Alvaro@soportemv.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <50925.32149.qm@web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1085021362==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1085021362== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-212250548-1189097202=:32149" --0-212250548-1189097202=:32149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Hitoshi Asaeda =0ATo: Alvaro@soportemv.com=0ACc: multimob@ietf.org=0ASent: Wednesday,= September 5, 2007 9:34:34 PM=0ASubject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Lin= ks=0A=0A> I think IGMPv3 was designed thinking how to save RAM in routers a= nd=0A> this is the reason of the complexity when it mixes include and=0A> e= xclude sources in one record. 15 years ago the cost of 1MB of ram=0A> was a= round 40$ but now you have 4GB for this price.=0A=0AThe aim of LW-IGMPv3/ML= Dv2 is not only for contribution to reduce the=0Amemory size in an end host= . One of the big advantages is that=0Ait highly reduces the processing cost= on the upstream switch-side or=0Athe router-side by eliminating the exclud= e mode operations. If both=0Ainclude and exclude mode operations are suppor= ted in your multicast=0Aservices, your switches and routers need to maintai= n all source=0Aaddresses joined from your end hosts. Even if an SPT is well= =0Acoordinated by (S,G) joins given by SSM-capable receivers, the routers= =0Aneed to refresh (and re-generate) some or all of the corresponding=0Arou= ting paths whenever more than one of your downstream hosts requests=0Aexclu= de mode join. This situation gives non scalable manner.=0A=0A> PIM-SM, for = example, has different state machines for Join(S,G) and=0A> Join(*,G) and t= hose state machine are more simple than IGMPv3 state=0A> machine.=0A=0AStat= e change from (*,G) to (S,G) or vice versa takes much cost.=0A=0A> Perhaps = IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the=0A> draft: with m= ore filter modes, each one with its own state machine.=0A=0AI cannot catch = your point, but if it's "lightweight", then the=0Asolution might be fine.= =0A=0A[behcet] I would like to add the following to the requirements of an = MLD/ IGMP for Multimob:=0A- support PtP links. In this case the link is sim= ple, i.e. there is only one mobile. However the complexity moves into the m= anagement of possibly large number of links.=0A- Dormant mode support. The = protocol should not wake up the mobile for some unnecessary reporting. This= is a requirement from SDOs that need to seriously consider the dormant mod= e operation for battery savings.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ABehcet=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-212250548-1189097202=:32149 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


----- Original Message ----
From: H= itoshi Asaeda <asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
To: Alvaro@soportemv.com
= Cc: multimob@ietf.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 9:34:34 PM
S= ubject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links

> I think IGMPv= 3 was designed thinking how to save RAM in routers and
> this is the = reason of the complexity when it mixes include and
> exclude sources = in one record. 15 years ago the cost of 1MB of ram
> was around 40$ b= ut now you have 4GB for this price.

The aim of LW-IGMPv3/MLDv2 is no= t only for contribution to reduce the
memory size in an end host. One of the big advantages is that
it highly reduces the processing cost on the= upstream switch-side or
the router-side by eliminating the exclude mode= operations. If both
include and exclude mode operations are supported i= n your multicast
services, your switches and routers need to maintain al= l source
addresses joined from your end hosts. Even if an SPT is wellcoordinated by (S,G) joins given by SSM-capable receivers, the routers
= need to refresh (and re-generate) some or all of the corresponding
routi= ng paths whenever more than one of your downstream hosts requests
exclud= e mode join. This situation gives non scalable manner.

> PIM-SM, = for example, has different state machines for Join(S,G) and
> Join(*,= G) and those state machine are more simple than IGMPv3 state
> machin= e.

State change from (*,G) to (S,G) or vice versa takes much cost.
> Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the
> draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own st= ate machine.

I cannot catch your point, but if it's "lightweight", t= hen the
solution might be fine.

[behcet] I would= like to add the following to the requirements of an MLD/ IGMP for Multimob= :
- support PtP links. In this case the link is simple, i.e. there is on= ly one mobile. However the complexity moves into the management of possibly= large number of links.
- Dormant mode support. The protocol should not = wake up the mobile for some unnecessary reporting. This is a requirement fr= om SDOs that need to seriously consider the dormant mode operation for batt= ery savings.

Regards,

Behcet

=
--0-212250548-1189097202=:32149-- --===============1085021362== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1085021362==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 00:35:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITVZ4-000178-C7; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:35:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITVZ2-00014B-M7 for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:35:28 -0400 Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([2001:200:0:8803:203:47ff:fedf:73a6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITVZ1-00063g-8G for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:35:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (n128-103.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.128.103]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CAB4D8B2; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:35:23 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:35:46 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20070907.133546.63124444.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> To: sarikaya@ieee.org, behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links From: Hitoshi Asaeda In-Reply-To: <50925.32149.qm@web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <50925.32149.qm@web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org > > Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the > > draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own state machine. > > I cannot catch your point, but if it's "lightweight", then the > solution might be fine. > > [behcet] I would like to add the following to the requirements of an > MLD/ IGMP for Multimob: > - support PtP links. In this case the link is simple, i.e. there is > only one mobile. However the complexity moves into the management > of possibly large number of links. Why IGMP/MLD cannot support PtoP links? I think they can. > - Dormant mode support. The protocol should not wake up the mobile > for some unnecessary reporting. This is a requirement from SDOs > that need to seriously consider the dormant mode operation for > battery savings. This would be the special requirement for mobile communications, where the functions wouldn't be included in the common spec, I think. But for me it's interesting to illustrate the addendum functions for mobile nodes, and I may want to think about them. Regards, -- Hitoshi Asaeda _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 01:11:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITW86-0000ji-NX; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:11:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITW85-0000fP-21 for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:11:41 -0400 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.185]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITW83-0006e0-NC for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:11:41 -0400 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so314419rvb for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=K1wb+27D8b70K1adRv58jcaMpDbBAAbT/h1Rd3wSrRs=; b=BuZCpeZheSEBQc/VSsDJuk7LVw0PLfXj3Hiy37vlABtzqEPdsOaFNXWqVl5IP6jgXNsist/70sefbF853vK9DT+bQSExYsaWEtlMbywFre4ONUuzQ/sfw4AGwqp6ZIg9NUBaPMGZEPDY00qiP9rotlYy5IOKkQRIhB+Nvfp/yLw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=usfUNUoDwseTq4qyqP0BT4X+lOZQUOxfO0zmWFRQRPSiqR0N5cKEvwirieAkfujnHXhw+tKixFfN3OSkRdTpIJVEfQHxp1zORSu/oo7Qsm2b4lyLtVOxvoLJdO0ipiwIV3QkuzhDiZ2L4kCNHgWPxyHkbGpWZj3m1DY5eMSiqNs= Received: by 10.140.136.6 with SMTP id j6mr578555rvd.1189141898418; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.185.9 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:11:38 +0900 From: "Jong-Hyouk Lee" To: "Hitoshi Asaeda" Subject: Re: [multimob] IGMP/MLD on PtP Links In-Reply-To: <20070907.133546.63124444.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <50925.32149.qm@web84111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20070907.133546.63124444.asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1908573587==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============1908573587== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13851_14036752.1189141898370" ------=_Part_13851_14036752.1189141898370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Hitoshi Asaeda. One of development issues for support mobility is a network-based mobility model, Proxy Mobile IPv6. Might be, Behcet considers this. In Proxy Mobile IPv6, PtoP link is assumed between the access router and the mobile node. For scalability and flexibility of IGMP/MLD on such environments, I agree with Behcet. Cheers. On 9/7/07, Hitoshi Asaeda wrote: > > > > Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the > > > draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own state machine. > > > > I cannot catch your point, but if it's "lightweight", then the > > solution might be fine. > > > > [behcet] I would like to add the following to the requirements of an > > MLD/ IGMP for Multimob: > > - support PtP links. In this case the link is simple, i.e. there is > > only one mobile. However the complexity moves into the management > > of possibly large number of links. > > Why IGMP/MLD cannot support PtoP links? I think they can. > > > - Dormant mode support. The protocol should not wake up the mobile > > for some unnecessary reporting. This is a requirement from SDOs > > that need to seriously consider the dormant mode operation for > > battery savings. > > This would be the special requirement for mobile communications, where > the functions wouldn't be included in the common spec, I think. > But for me it's interesting to illustrate the addendum functions for > mobile nodes, and I may want to think about them. > > Regards, > -- > Hitoshi Asaeda > > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob > -- Internet Management Technology Lab, Sungkyunkwan University. Jong-Hyouk Lee. #email: jonghyouk (at) gmail (dot) com #webpage: http://www.hurryon.org ------=_Part_13851_14036752.1189141898370 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Hitoshi Asaeda.
 
One of development issues for support mobility is a network-based mobility model, Proxy Mobile IPv6. Might be, Behcet considers this. In Proxy Mobile IPv6, PtoP link is assumed between the access router and the mobile node. For scalability and flexibility of IGMP/MLD on such environments, I agree with Behcet.
 
Cheers. 

 
On 9/7/07, Hitoshi Asaeda <asaeda@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote:
> > Perhaps IGMPv3 can be modified exactly in the opposite way of the
> > draft: with more filter modes, each one with its own state machine.
>
> I cannot catch your point, but if it's "lightweight", then the
> solution might be fine.
>
> [behcet] I would like to add the following to the requirements of an
> MLD/ IGMP for Multimob:
> - support PtP links. In this case the link is simple, i.e. there is
> only one mobile. However the complexity moves into the management
> of possibly large number of links.

Why IGMP/MLD cannot support PtoP links? I think they can.

> - Dormant mode support. The protocol should not wake up the mobile
> for some unnecessary reporting. This is a requirement from SDOs
> that need to seriously consider the dormant mode operation for
> battery savings.

This would be the special requirement for mobile communications, where
the functions wouldn't be included in the common spec, I think.
But for me it's interesting to illustrate the addendum functions for
mobile nodes, and I may want to think about them.

Regards,
--
Hitoshi Asaeda

_______________________________________________
multimob mailing list
multimob@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob



--
Internet Management Technology Lab, Sungkyunkwan University.
Jong-Hyouk Lee.

#email: jonghyouk (at) gmail (dot) com
#webpage: http://www.hurryon.org ------=_Part_13851_14036752.1189141898370-- --===============1908573587== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============1908573587==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 07 10:52:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITfCF-00055Q-Rr; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:52:35 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITfCF-00054z-2L for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:52:35 -0400 Received: from mail1.is.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.192.101]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITfCD-0002VS-Iq for multimob@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:52:35 -0400 Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (isis.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.10.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.is.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9057E6219A; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:52:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24774-01-2; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:52:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.5.193] (unknown [91.184.34.11]) (using SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1773C0011D; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:52:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46E166A9.5010805@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:56:41 +0200 From: Thomas C Schmidt User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Behcet Sarikaya Subject: Re: [multimob] BOF Request References: <238329.97524.qm@web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <238329.97524.qm@web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV at mailgate.haw-hamburg.de Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Behcet & Suresh, we plan on "renovating" our old M-HMIPv6 draft http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schmidt-waehlisch-mhmipv6-04 and will be happy to present it at the BOF. Best, thomas Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > Folks, > We have made an official BOF request for Vancouver. > We need to give a list of related drafts to the ADs. If you plan on=20 > submitting a draft (even if it will be submitted later on in October),=20 > please send me and Suresh a note with some details ASAP. > We will post a draft agenda and charter soon for discussion. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Behcet >=20 >=20 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --=20 =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg =B0 Germany, Fon: +49-40-42875-8157 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Tue Sep 18 19:44:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXmj0-0003WG-4y; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:43:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXmiy-0003TD-5k for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:43:24 -0400 Received: from web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXmir-0007cC-GQ for multimob@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:43:23 -0400 Received: (qmail 67703 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Sep 2007 23:43:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=V+LxsJa89XI42I63RvtbGuzvbecME9T0VyoSSdiSVS4/5Akmp4uOIwZHIv9Y8vJClLhs6HV0TUV1mlUcfAhDb6zgXHDPlBDEDbvlKmkswGO6jP9SxM1vq68cVf++9Tmveos59NMLPtoFT5cxew/F7a5nycmAHTMGZoaruNWd7P0=; X-YMail-OSG: Ane9qUMVM1mco9d.Zr7mcdOOTa2ja0eLFmAma2nm6gPa0B0owXVvpdtft2JpYsSqKakVBnWLy1608RCq.2Y41LFyFVIIoG17QARszyLDHsVvcrmrquU- Received: from [12.104.232.45] by web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:43:03 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.50 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:43:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Behcet Sarikaya To: multimob@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <885003.64554.qm@web84112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Subject: [multimob] Draft BoF Agenda and Charter texts posted X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Behcet Sarikaya List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0648712608==" Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org --===============0648712608== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1860058603-1190158983=:64554" --0-1860058603-1190158983=:64554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable at:=0Ahttp://www-etud.iro.umontreal.ca/~sarikaya/multimob/=0A=0AComments we= lcome.=0A=0AChairs,=0A=0ASuresh and Behcet=0A=0A --0-1860058603-1190158983=:64554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
at:
http://www-etud.iro.umontreal.ca/~= sarikaya/multimob/

Comments welcome.

Chairs,
Suresh and Behcet
--0-1860058603-1190158983=:64554-- --===============0648712608== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --===============0648712608==-- From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 27 04:00:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaoHq-0002J1-5k; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:59:54 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaoHo-0002IW-LE for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:59:52 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaoHo-0006XV-Bc for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:59:52 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F4B198670 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:59:51 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318E619865C for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:59:51 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <46FB62F1.1000402@piuha.net> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:59:45 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (X11/20070824) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: multimob@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Subject: [multimob] implementations and deployments? X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Who are the people interested in this effort? Are they researchers or people planning to deploy this technology in some network? Are there implementations, if so on what platforms? Are there deployment plans? Which of the big mobile networks that we have today (say, 3GPP, 3GPP2, Wimax) are planning to employ a multicast mobility feature (at L3) in their future networks? Jari _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob From multimob-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 27 10:28:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauLq-0007Qd-W8; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:28:27 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauLp-0007L4-4g for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:28:25 -0400 Received: from mail1.is.haw-hamburg.de ([141.22.192.101]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauLe-00084p-SA for multimob@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:28:25 -0400 Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (isis2.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [141.22.10.61]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.is.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5888A61BBA; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:27:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09318-01-3; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.215] (unknown [91.113.129.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgate.informatik.haw-hamburg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485083C000D3; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46FBBEFA.7040001@informatik.haw-hamburg.de> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:32:26 +0200 From: Thomas C Schmidt User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [multimob] implementations and deployments? References: <46FB62F1.1000402@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <46FB62F1.1000402@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.haw-hamburg.de X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV at mailgate.haw-hamburg.de Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: multimob@ietf.org X-BeenThere: multimob@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multicast Mobility List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: multimob-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jari, I guess these questions have to be answered individually. As for our group: we are researchers. We do implementations, usually on=20 a network simulator platform, e.g., OMNET++, first, and then move to=20 experimental routing implementation environments such as XORP. However, this is only one individual answer. Best, thomas Jari Arkko wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Who are the people interested in this effort? Are they > researchers or people planning to deploy this technology > in some network? Are there implementations, if so on > what platforms? Are there deployment plans? Which of > the big mobile networks that we have today (say, 3GPP, > 3GPP2, Wimax) are planning to employ a multicast > mobility feature (at L3) in their future networks? >=20 > Jari >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > multimob mailing list > multimob@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob --=20 =B0 Prof. Dr. Thomas C. Schmidt =B0 HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik =B0 University of Applied Sciences =B0 Berliner Tor 7, D 20099 Hamburg =B0 Germany, Fon: +49-40-42875-8157 =B0 http://www.informatik.haw-hamburg.de/~schmidt _______________________________________________ multimob mailing list multimob@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/multimob