From ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Fri Nov 2 07:00:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6696621F8A40 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvIIR6cKkPXJ for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E5E21F8A2B for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D71D86DADA for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:00:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Delivered-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Received: from mail1.ntp.org (mail1.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::5]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0ACF86D33D for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:00:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.bs.ptb.de ([192.53.103.106]) by mail1.ntp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1TUHmw-000FHK-Jp for ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:00:01 +0000 Received: from mx1.bs.ptb.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F227C3D15B; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:59:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from lotus.bs.ptb.de (lotus.bs.ptb.de [141.25.85.200]) by mx1.bs.ptb.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DB0C3D0BB; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:59:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [141.25.84.15] ([141.25.84.15]) by s85202.bs.ptb.de (Lotus Domino Release 8.5.3) with ESMTP id 2012110214594815-86661 ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:59:48 +0100 Message-ID: <5093D1D4.10804@ptb.de> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:59:48 +0100 From: Dieter Sibold User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tal Mizrahi , ntpwg@lists.ntp.org References: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01473567D9FE@IL-MB01.marvell.com> In-Reply-To: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01473567D9FE@IL-MB01.marvell.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on PALME/PTB(Release 8.5.3|September 15, 2011) at 11/02/2012 14:59:48, Serialize by Notes Server on LOTUS/PTB(Release 8.5.3 HF21|October 13, 2011) at 02.11.2012 14:59:35, Serialize complete at 02.11.2012 14:59:35, Serialize by Router on LOTUS/PTB(Release 8.5.3 HF21|October 13, 2011) at 02.11.2012 14:59:35 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.53.103.106 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: dieter.sibold@ptb.de X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without Authentication X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5904291151682121960==" Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Dies ist eine kryptografisch unterzeichnete Nachricht im MIME-Format. --===============5904291151682121960== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090604020500070304010908" Dies ist eine kryptografisch unterzeichnete Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------ms090604020500070304010908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I just read through this email thread. As some of you know, I'm=20 currently working on an new autokey design. In this design a time=20 request would need to use an extension field to submit a hash of the=20 clients public key to the server. This also would be an extension field=20 without a MAC. Greetings Dieter Am 11.12.11 16:30, schrieb Tal Mizrahi: > Hi, > > Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and is yet to be > resolved: > > RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a MAC must be > present when there is an extension field. > > Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow > Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present. > > Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and that it should b= e > included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields without MA= C > are something new that needs to be defined in a new document. > > This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc meeting= > in October, but no conclusion was reached. > > It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the chairs about ho= w > to proceed with this. > > Thanks, > > Tal. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ntpwg mailing list > ntpwg@lists.ntp.org > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg > --=20 Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt Q.42 - Server Administration Bundesallee 100 D-38116 Braunschweig Germany Tel: +49 531 592 69 8420 Mobile: +49 152 5487 0739 E-Mail: dieter.sibold@ptb.de --------------ms090604020500070304010908 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift 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ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F7F11E80C5 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Gc6GJsJFoFY for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBCC11E809B for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB01586DADB for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:31:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Delivered-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Received: from mail1.ntp.org (mail1.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::5]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17EF386D33D for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from louie.udel.edu ([128.4.40.12] helo=mail.eecis.udel.edu) by mail1.ntp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1TUJCy-000Fhp-8q for ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:30:58 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-173-75-255-19.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [173.75.255.19]) (Authenticated sender: mills@mail.eecis.udel.edu) by mail.eecis.udel.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89FEF133; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5093E732.3000507@udel.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:30:58 +0000 From: "David L. Mills" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dieter Sibold References: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01473567D9FE@IL-MB01.marvell.com> <5093D1D4.10804@ptb.de> In-Reply-To: <5093D1D4.10804@ptb.de> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 128.4.40.12 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mills@udel.edu X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Cc: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without Authentication X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5262364452554469341==" Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5262364452554469341== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070804070609000804070500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070804070609000804070500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dieter , As the original designer of theAutokey syntax, I have always intended that the extension fields be authentiacted using a MAC or be self-authenticated; but, even if self-authenticated, the MAC be present as all zeros. There are instances in theprotocol dances where the packet cannot be reliably authenticated, and in that case the NTP header data cannot be used for timekeeping calculations. Whatever the interpretation of or lack of a MAC, correct packet syntax must be assured without necessarily requiring a MAC calculation. Dave Dieter Sibold wrote: > Hi, > > I just read through this email thread. As some of you know, I'm > currently working on an new autokey design. In this design a time > request would need to use an extension field to submit a hash of the > clients public key to the server. This also would be an extension > field without a MAC. > > Greetings > Dieter > > Am 11.12.11 16:30, schrieb Tal Mizrahi: > >> Hi, >> >> Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and is yet to be >> resolved: >> >> RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a MAC must be >> present when there is an extension field. >> >> Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow >> Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present. >> >> Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and that it should be >> included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields without MAC >> are something new that needs to be defined in a new document. >> >> This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc meeting >> in October, but no conclusion was reached. >> >> It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the chairs about how >> to proceed with this. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tal. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ntpwg mailing list >> ntpwg@lists.ntp.org >> http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >ntpwg mailing list >ntpwg@lists.ntp.org >http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg > --------------070804070609000804070500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dieter ,

As the original designer of theAutokey syntax, I have always intended that the extension fields be authentiacted using a MAC or be self-authenticated; but, even if self-authenticated, the MAC be present as all zeros. There are instances in theprotocol dances where the packet cannot be reliably authenticated, and in that case the NTP header data cannot be used for timekeeping calculations.

Whatever the interpretation of or lack of a MAC, correct packet syntax must be assured without necessarily requiring a MAC calculation.

Dave
Dieter Sibold wrote:
Hi,

I just read through this email thread. As some of you know, I'm currently working on an new autokey design. In this design a time request would need to use an extension field to submit a hash of the clients public key to the server. This also would be an extension field without a MAC.

Greetings
Dieter

Am 11.12.11 16:30, schrieb Tal Mizrahi:
Hi,

Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and is yet to be
resolved:

RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a MAC must be
present when there is an extension field.

Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow
Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present.

Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and that it should be
included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields without MAC
are something new that needs to be defined in a new document.

This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc meeting
in October, but no conclusion was reached.

It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the chairs about how
to proceed with this.

Thanks,

Tal.



_______________________________________________
ntpwg mailing list
ntpwg@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg 



_______________________________________________
ntpwg mailing list
ntpwg@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg

--------------070804070609000804070500-- --===============5262364452554469341== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg --===============5262364452554469341==-- From ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Fri Nov 2 08:55:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F191721F8C12 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NccBHjXmrLRt for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5DD21F89E4 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E3586D9AC for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:55:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Delivered-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Received: from mail1.ntp.org (mail1.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::5]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E830A86D33D for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:55:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.bs.ptb.de ([192.53.103.106]) by mail1.ntp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1TUJaG-000FqE-8U for ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:55:02 +0000 Received: from mx1.bs.ptb.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C400C3D2A7; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:54:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from rose.bs.ptb.de (rose.bs.ptb.de [141.25.85.201]) by mx1.bs.ptb.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35254C3B816; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:54:54 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <5093E732.3000507@udel.edu> References: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01473567D9FE@IL-MB01.marvell.com> <5093D1D4.10804@ptb.de> <5093E732.3000507@udel.edu> To: "David L. Mills" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 0E08FD43:B3640782-C1257AAA:00575207; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.5.3 September 15, 2011 Message-ID: From: dieter.sibold@ptb.de Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:54:52 +0100 X-MIMETrack: S/MIME Sign by Notes Client on Dieter Sibold/PTB(Release 8.5.3|September 15, 2011) at 02.11.2012 16:54:54, Serialize by Notes Client on Dieter Sibold/PTB(Release 8.5.3|September 15, 2011) at 02.11.2012 16:54:54, Serialize complete at 02.11.2012 16:54:54, Itemize by Notes Client on Dieter Sibold/PTB(Release 8.5.3|September 15, 2011) at 02.11.2012 16:54:55, S/MIME Sign complete at 02.11.2012 16:54:55, Serialize by Router on ROSE/PTB(Release 8.5.3|September 15, 2011) at 11/02/2012 16:54:53, Serialize complete at 11/02/2012 16:54:53 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.53.103.106 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: dieter.sibold@ptb.de X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Cc: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without Authentication X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2957466607553587128==" Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org This is an S/MIME signed message. --===============2957466607553587128== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=-------z20121_boundary_sign This is an S/MIME signed message. ---------z20121_boundary_sign Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dave, thanks for your response. Yes a Null-MAC could solve this question. Dieter ---------------------------------- Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt Q.42 - Server Administration Bundesallee 100 D-38116 Braunschweig Tel: +49-531-592-84 20 E-Mail: dieter.sibold@ptb.de Von: "David L. Mills" An: Dieter Sibold , Kopie: Tal Mizrahi , ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Datum: 02.11.2012 16:30 Betreff: Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] NTP Extension Field without Authentication Dieter , As the original designer of theAutokey syntax, I have always intended that the extension fields be authentiacted using a MAC or be self-authenticated; but, even if self-authenticated, the MAC be present as all zeros. There are instances in theprotocol dances where the packet cannot be reliably authenticated, and in that case the NTP header data cannot be used for timekeeping calculations. Whatever the interpretation of or lack of a MAC, correct packet syntax must be assured without necessarily requiring a MAC calculation. Dave Dieter Sibold wrote: Hi, I just read through this email thread. As some of you know, I'm currently working on an new autokey design. In this design a time request would need to use an extension field to submit a hash of the clients public key to the server. This also would be an extension field without a MAC. Greetings Dieter Am 11.12.11 16:30, schrieb Tal Mizrahi: Hi, Revisiting an issue that was raised a few months ago and is yet to be resolved: RFC 5905 defines an extension field. The RFC states that a MAC must be present when there is an extension field. Obviously, it would be beneficial for various purposes to allow Extension Fields independent of whether the MAC is present. Some people thought this is a mistake in the spec, and that it should be included in the errata. Others thought that Extension Fields without MAC are something new that needs to be defined in a new document. This was discussed in IETF 81, and then revisited in the ad-hoc meeting in October, but no conclusion was reached. It would be great to hear the opinion of the WG and the chairs about how to proceed with this. Thanks, Tal. _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg ---------z20121_boundary_sign Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIImgAIBATELMAkGBSsOAwIaBQAwCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBoIIjkjCCA58w ggKHoAMCAQICASYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwcTELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxHDAaBgNVBAoTE0RldXRz Y2hlIFRlbGVrb20gQUcxHzAdBgNVBAsTFlQtVGVsZVNlYyBUcnVzdCBDZW50ZXIxIzAhBgNVBAMT GkRldXRzY2hlIFRlbGVrb20gUm9vdCBDQSAyMB4XDTk5MDcwOTEyMTEwMFoXDTE5MDcwOTIzNTkw MFowcTELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxHDAaBgNVBAoTE0RldXRzY2hlIFRlbGVrb20gQUcxHzAdBgNVBAsT FlQtVGVsZVNlYyBUcnVzdCBDZW50ZXIxIzAhBgNVBAMTGkRldXRzY2hlIFRlbGVrb20gUm9vdCBD 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg --===============2957466607553587128==-- From ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Mon Nov 5 15:45:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F6C21F85E3 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:45:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.931 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.931 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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(EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp8.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: odonoghue-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id ABE828132; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:44:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50984F62.4080309@isoc.org> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:44:34 -0500 From: Karen O'Donoghue Organization: ISOC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NTP Working Group , "tictoc@ietf.org" References: <20121101121722.29094.73706.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20121101121722.29094.73706.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20121101121722.29094.73706.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 67.192.241.188 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: odonoghue@isoc.org X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Subject: [ntpwg] Fwd: CORRECTION: Help the NomCom X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: odonoghue@isoc.org List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1198470117803888328==" Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1198470117803888328== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060404040602000808000601" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060404040602000808000601 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, Just a reminder, nomcom feedback requested by 11 Nov 2012. See Matt's message below. Karen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: CORRECTION: Help the NomCom Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:17:22 -0700 From: NomCom Chair To: Working Group Chairs I sent a message several hours ago requesting that you help and make your working group aware that the NomCom is looking for input from the community. This message had a minor error. The NomCom needs to receive community input by November 11, 2012. The full text of the corrected message is below --------------------------------------------------- The IETF Nominations Committee (NomCom) continues to seek input from the IETF Community. The NomCom would greatly appreciate any help you could provide in making members of your working group aware of ways in which they can provide valuable feedback to the NomCom. In order to ensure that your input is received in time to be useful, the NomCom needs to receive community feedback on or before Sunday, November 11. The final list of candidates (as per RFC 5680) that the NomCom is considering for open positions can be found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/ The NomCom will be holding office hours during IETF 85, Monday- Thursday from 1:00pm to 3:00pm in Room 305. The NomCom welcomes comments on specific individuals, as well as general feedback related to any of the positions that NomCom is considering. Note: A list of leadership positions that the NomCom is considering can be found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/ If the NomCom office hours are inconvenient for you or if you cannot attend IETF 85, the NomCom is happy to take community input via email to nomcom12 at ietf.org. Additionally, the NomCom is happy to arrange a meeting outside of office hours, just send us email and we can set something up. Comments on specific candidates can also be provided to the NomCom via the web feedback tool: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/ Thank you for your help, - Matt Lepinski nomcom-chair at ietf.org --------------060404040602000808000601 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks,

Just a reminder, nomcom feedback requested by 11 Nov 2012. See Matt's message below.

Karen


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: CORRECTION: Help the NomCom
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:17:22 -0700
From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair@ietf.org>
To: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org> 


I sent a message several hours ago requesting that you help and make 
your working group aware that the NomCom is looking for input from the 
community. This message had a minor error. The NomCom needs to 
receive community input by November 11, 2012. 

The full text of the corrected message is below
---------------------------------------------------

The IETF Nominations Committee (NomCom) continues to seek input from
the IETF Community. The NomCom would greatly appreciate any help you
could provide in making members of your working group aware of ways in
which they can provide valuable feedback to the NomCom.

In order to ensure that your input is received in time to be useful, the 
NomCom needs to receive community feedback on or before Sunday, November 11.

The final list of candidates (as per RFC 5680) that the NomCom is 
considering for open positions can be found at: 
https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/

The NomCom will be holding office hours during IETF 85, Monday-
Thursday from 1:00pm to 3:00pm in Room 305. The NomCom welcomes 
comments on specific individuals, as well as general feedback related to 
any of the positions that NomCom is considering.

Note: A list of leadership positions that the NomCom is considering can be 
found at: https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/

If the NomCom office hours are inconvenient for you or if you cannot 
attend IETF 85, the NomCom is happy to take community input via email 
to nomcom12 at ietf.org. Additionally, the NomCom is happy to arrange a 
meeting outside of office hours, just send us email and we can set 
something up.

Comments on specific candidates can also be provided to the NomCom
via the web feedback tool: 
https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2012/input/

Thank you for your help,
- Matt Lepinski
  nomcom-chair at ietf.org



--------------060404040602000808000601-- --===============1198470117803888328== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg --===============1198470117803888328==-- From ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Tue Nov 6 10:01:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C8521F8A0F for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:01:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cpWUHPuf6RDY for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F99F21F894E for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534EB86D76F for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:01:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Delivered-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Received: from mail1.ntp.org (mail1.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::5]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C817D86D333 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:01:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from galiil.marvell.com ([199.203.130.254]) by mail1.ntp.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1TVnSp-000In6-K1 for ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:01:31 +0000 From: Tal Mizrahi To: Doug Arnold , "kodonog@pobox.com" Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:01:14 +0200 Thread-Topic: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNsTCbPW2EX9L8MU2crsweK4HziJfdFWrwgAAYy0A= Message-ID: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F8E3363E@IL-MB01.marvell.com> References: <20121022082804.12835.73453.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F8D26CAB@IL-MB01.marvell.com>, <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD0E582@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F842952E@IL-MB01.marvell.com> <5086B371.6020700@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 199.203.130.254 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: talmi@marvell.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) Cc: "ntpwg@lists.ntp.org" , "tictoc@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [TICTOC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Right, I agree. My point was just that we may be provisioning for something that will come out completely different than what we currently expect. It is kind of like buying the tires before you decide which car you want to buy. :) Tal. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Arnold [mailto:darnold@symmetricom.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:31 AM To: kodonog@pobox.com; Tal Mizrahi Cc: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; tictoc@ietf.org; draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt There is also some value in having these the treatment of NTP and PTP in one place. //Doug Arnold -----Original Message----- From: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Karen O'Donoghue Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:11 AM To: Tal Mizrahi Cc: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; tictoc@ietf.org; draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [TICTOC] [ntpwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt Tal, It is true that developing an NTP option in parallel would potentially be more efficient and coherent; however, we have thus far had no volunteers to work on that document. The current approach is flexible enough to support PTP, NTP, and possibly other timing methods which is a generalization of the solution originally proposed. We welcome proposals and volunteer document editors who wish to pursue the NTP option. Regards, Karen On 10/22/12 4:35 PM, Tal Mizrahi wrote: > Hi Shahram, > > Thanks for the prompt response. > I would suggest to add some text to explain the scope of this draft in the context of NTP, i.e., your explanation below. > > A question to the WG chairs: if NTP TCs are indeed on the agenda, wouldn't it be best to define these entities in parallel to the MPLS draft? It seems more natural, and more likely to produce a coherent mechanism. > > Thanks, > Tal. > > ________________________________________ > From: Shahram Davari [davari@broadcom.com] > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 6:46 PM > To: Tal Mizrahi; draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls@tools.ietf.org > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org; ntpwg@lists.ntp.org > Subject: RE: [TICTOC] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt > > Hi Tal, > > If you recall the Area director asked for generalizing this draft to NTP and other possible future Timing methods such as a Shim header that can carry Timing. I know NTP does not have TC, but IETF may add TC in future. Also on the egress LER the timing Label (defined in the draft) may be used as an indicator to sample ToD at the port level. > > Thanks > Shahram > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tal Mizrahi [mailto:talmi@marvell.com] > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 7:47 AM > To: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls@tools.ietf.org > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org; ntpwg@lists.ntp.org > Subject: RE: [TICTOC] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt > > Hi Shahram et al. > > What is the motivation for adding NTP to this draft? > Are we planning to define something similar to a correctionField in NTP? > > Regards, > Tal. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 10:28 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org > Subject: [TICTOC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Transporting Timing messages over MPLS Networks > Author(s) : Shahram Davari > Amit Oren > Manav Bhatia > Peter Roberts > Laurent Montini > Filename : draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03.txt > Pages : 36 > Date : 2012-10-22 > > Abstract: > This document defines the method for transporting Timing messages > such as PTP and NTP over an MPLS network. The method allows for the > easy identification of these PDUs at the port level to allow for port > level processing of these PDUs in both LERs and LSRs. > > The basic idea is to transport Timing messages inside dedicated MPLS > LSPs. These LSPs only carry timing messages and possibly Control and > Management packets, but they do not carry customer traffic. > > Two methods for transporting Timing messages over MPLS are defined. > The first method is to transport Timing messages directly over the > dedicated MPLS LSP via UDP/IP encapsulation, which is suitable for > MPLS networks. The second method is to transport Timing messages > inside a PW via Ethernet encapsulation, which is suitable for both > MPLS and MPLS-TP networks. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-03 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > TICTOC mailing list > TICTOC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc > _______________________________________________ > ntpwg mailing list > ntpwg@lists.ntp.org > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg From ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Fri Nov 9 05:55:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ntp-archives-ahFae6za@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9210E21F866C for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 05:55:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gbb5x4pe7gVC for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 05:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47C421F8671 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 05:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lists.ntp.org (lists.ntp.org [149.20.68.7]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF51A86DADC for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:54:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Delivered-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org Received: from mail1.ntp.org (mail1.ntp.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff7:1::5]) by lists.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5978F86D333 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 07:19:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rfc-editor.org ([2001:1890:123a::1:2f]) by mail1.ntp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1TWisG-000L4b-DU for ntpwg@lists.ntp.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:19:33 +0000 Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id BE70E72E038; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 23:12:46 -0800 (PST) To: mills@udel.edu, jrmii@isc.org, jack.burbank@jhuapl.edu, william.kasch@jhuapl.edu, rdroms.ietf@gmail.com, brian@innovationslab.net, odonoghue@isoc.org From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20121109071246.BE70E72E038@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 23:12:46 -0800 (PST) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:1890:123a::1:2f X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: wwwrun@rfc-editor.org X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.ntp.org) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:54:39 +0000 Cc: verdy_p@wanadoo.fr, ntpwg@lists.ntp.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [ntpwg] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC5905 (3404) X-BeenThere: ntpwg@lists.ntp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Working Group for Network Time Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org Sender: ntpwg-bounces+ntp-archives-ahfae6za=lists.ietf.org@lists.ntp.org The following errata report has been submitted for RFC5905, "Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=5905&eid=3404 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Philippe Verdy Section: A.1.1. Original Text ------------- #define SQUARE(x) (x * x) Corrected Text -------------- #define SQUARE(x) ((x) * (x)) Notes ----- This macro is used in the example code to square differences: //- in clock_filter() {...} (page 85) : p->jitter += SQUARE(f[i].offset - f[0].offset); //- in clock_select() { ... } (page 92) : dtemp += SQUARE(p->offset - q->offset); //- in clock_combine() { ... } (page 96) : w += SQUARE(p->offset - s.v[0].p->offset) / x; //- in local_clock() { ... } (page 99) : dtemp = SQUARE(max(fabs(offset - c.last), LOG2D(s.precision))); These expressions are using differences of double values: the .offset member in a Filter stage structure (f), and the .jitter member in an Association structure (p), or in a Local clock structure (c), or in a System structure (s). All these occurences of macro substitions of SQUARE() will be wrong if the C macro does not surrounds its parameter expression by adding parentheses around them ! This is a very classic error made by beginners in C programming using "utility" macros with side effects... At least newer programmers avoid these kind of macros and prefer defining inline functions Instructions: ------------- This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC5905 (draft-ietf-ntp-ntpv4-proto-13) -------------------------------------- Title : Network Time Protocol Version 4: Protocol and Algorithms Specification Publication Date : June 2010 Author(s) : D. Mills, J. Martin, Ed., J. Burbank, W. Kasch Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Time Protocol Area : Internet Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG _______________________________________________ ntpwg mailing list ntpwg@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/ntpwg