From nobody Tue Nov 3 02:22:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E653A1601 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id toTCDVn_8Lcx for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B661E3A15F6 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:22:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1604398963; bh=6woTlpFgO9uo7SIn3KFA5FLNiLk+RcGa/Tp3f7BA24c=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=DlrAqPrR3A9mB3fIkiprfw2wWqrqVuhqrp9HO9F1uBcBnVUBiQ36NncIT9OgDvof5 P6l+XrBECFKV1V9vy6Vbd0as/t6OEgI6p43OA3S+WeufAY4xuf4EvIHLdys1inh8vB K7fkd6Z4oCQLCc2y9R6vrUfdtYVPuBV2fVtuTX24= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [80.149.154.203] ([80.149.154.203]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-gmx-bs74.server.lan [172.19.170.217]) (via HTTP); Tue, 3 Nov 2020 11:22:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: heikostamer@gmx.net To: openpgp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 11:22:43 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <196eb4d4cdd163f3a51be950bac87b4724b61c32.camel@cryptobit.ch> References: <87sga5xg03.wl-neal@walfield.org> <20201023192317.GA444398@fullerene.field.pennock-tech.net> <87lffvy6kf.wl-neal@walfield.org> <20201025010343.GA1089002@fullerene.field.pennock-tech.net> <196eb4d4cdd163f3a51be950bac87b4724b61c32.camel@cryptobit.ch> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:x9OWGcEF4QYxn0wpR+3g905a1MoXehOT0zVpFidTKwB9eN6m60XIqMtCFHPxlf/aX4XvE PRzpaxqGJ0mLuW/cESH2FFn4iR7cJRVKxAqb2RkwgY/UqW17F439JIuWFeX1x6/secKGzP6IumIu d0/KDQnoD/H5v8MfEPGV1qJ3Lo0oUnHAINLF0w22kXlmTkfOAAUfZQffuOm0E/sBQT1NdU1rUz9f bFMjlkI0LIeDcvfnBkP4TJ5bFNIBktX0i9SN2kYw3GmWxul0Wxi0wPAyu+tKIzw0QDN4ty42cqps PE= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zwN9uydZ6cY=:FVZ7TElRBgk0BM1Rk2B1xd sTcEyXlAaHYX9isqQYfQerF+FlnLVN00Rn/8kvolfwGSNHoZPtVfhAykJCS2V4eESIVo8GS09 gcKOI7s+U0QwZqiAXHmNZquoyq+E3eCxzMVGEMcC5JV1rPpdC+SxYNWS/wX2thrlx6vBQoydx RXd/7hwhyTt2JEXvq3uKZu3TeCmNfkin6UEuqG5rEJnROsh0XTEDrvV0jbSobcEKoE8TLwPkD HkcsQnyacHuYJbmPkJx/7IHftf48E2zc4f/Y6teXaaBk+o3KsBGcc14hU9K/mO+1twKFP5oDW zDBh7mz43xv8qjwJnTC6eAGUzvY8LLcn9ZPjaBPdfwpZ8iMwwYlNHcay+LuycR+/GJMCgCsUO fbz7GsukJBizt+j3Cmd8clEWcEwhRTSJW6lmWN+/Abthb15/9TZP0lKfJx7WZ9cRTf4vA8N6s 8Q49kR6WygnYMo9Uaty2bcI410QZI8Z84SoKxK9sXjDFoDL5Saimo6bkXzuDYInlqsBqBw+b5 YS04PQoWwrHMXGcFYIVdURPNrYYyvqaHPCtkhG0IPPWETRNSBRw6VcL6RZ9HvCpk6XSBOkECQ xESedSzPAG+7g= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Deprecating SHA1 X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 10:22:47 -0000 > Maybe hopenpgp's "lint", i.e. "hokey lint" is such a tool. DKGPG includes a similar tool called dkg-keycheck [1]. [1] https://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/dkgpg.git/tree/src/dkg-keycheck.cc From nobody Tue Nov 3 08:25:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567B73A0D2B for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:25:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=rub.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8E9UFhbWPO_T for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [IPv6:2a05:3e00:c:1001::8693:2ae5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17DBD3A0D8E for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix mo-ext) with ESMTP id 4CQZrD5Ty4z8S4Q; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 17:25:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=rub.de; s=mail-2017; t=1604420700; bh=5AH5EAp4NSWisPZhb6mK0UOIaquCrhXw+I1Bd8C+VUU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=eauiKFAvbGq9haxmFuG0pfSD0gwkfmOtec2uTcvCoWnsvSLBowbdCtRIuJF0S8nLj 8LoPuOwvche0HhGpe8i9VQatU3s3S3D1Yb3mSLLXCBvtuV9dlKRNHheji8O+8ISnrq jVXSc5RvgFWZ1THZMc4Dx0UmMxFS1dJqbfoxJCeQ= Received: from out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix idis) with ESMTP id 4CQZrD3zr0z8S8B; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 17:25:00 +0100 (CET) X-Envelope-Sender: X-RUB-Notes: Internal origin=IPv6:2a05:3e00:c:1001::8693:2aee Received: from mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [IPv6:2a05:3e00:c:1001::8693:2aee]) by out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix mi-int) with ESMTP id 4CQZrB6Kltz8S9D; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 17:24:58 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.1 at mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Received: from [192.168.142.186] (p5dca48ad.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.202.72.173]) by mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CQZrB4RkPzDh1S; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 17:24:58 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de From: Marcus Brinkmann To: openpgp@ietf.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Schwenk?= , Juraj Somorovsky , Damian Poddebniak , Sebastian Schinzel , =?UTF-8?Q?Jens_M=c3=bcller?= Message-ID: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 17:24:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 16:25:08 -0000 Hello, we have just published a paper on our research how to mitigate attacks on email end-to-end encryption. The full paper is available here with open access: Jörg Schwenk, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Jens Müller, Juraj Somorovsky, and Sebastian Schinzel. 2020. Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption. In Proceedings of the 2020 ACM SIGSAC Conference on Computer and Communications Security (CCS '20). Association for Computing Machinery, New York, NY, USA, 1647–1664. DOI:https://doi.org/10.1145/3372297.3417878 We have analyzed three attack vectors: EFAIL malleability gadgets (MG), EFAIL direct exfiltration (DE), and REPLY attacks. MG attacks exploit unauthenticated block cipher modes such as CBC and CFB, and are mitigated by using an authenticated encryption mode such as AEAD, or by a strict implementation of OpenPGP's modification detection code. S/MIME 4.0 and OpenPGP RFC4880bis have added AEAD encryption modes, and assuming a strict implementation, can also protect against MG attacks that way. (Currently, RFC4880bis does allow unsafe implementations of AEAD, and even encourages them due to unrestricted chunk sizes. This has been previously discussed, and I will re-raise this issue when the WG has been reinstantiated). EFAIL DE attacks rely on modifications of the MIME structure to embed authentic ciphertexts in a context that allows exfiltration of the plaintext after decryption, for example through image source URLs in a HTML MIME element before the ciphertext. These attacks have also been published in the EFAIL paper, and so far were only mitigated at the recipient side by ad-hoc measures in email clients. Our experience was that developers were struggling to mitigate these attacks. For example, we found several bypasses after attempts at mitigation. REPLY attacks are known for 20+ years: They rely on modifications of the email header (SMTP) context, that allow the attacker to receive replies to authentic ciphertexts, were the victim quotes the plaintext back to the attacker. To our knowledge, these attacks have not been mitigated so far. We have looked at reply attacks in our paper on covert content attacks [COVERT]. We have looked systematically at these issues, and propose to protect the MIME and SMTP context of an email by adding a summary of this decryption contexts (DC) as associated data (AD) in the AEAD encryption. This way, any significant modification to these contexts that indicate an attack would lead to a decryption error, rather than emitting the plaintext to the application, where it would be subject to a large attack surface to launch DE or REPLY attacks. To support this mechanism, OpenPGP RFC4880bis would need to be amended to allow applications to add arbitrary data to the AD, either directly (length+value) or by adding a hash representation (constant length). I plan to introduce a proposal for these changes when the WG is reinstantiated. We have evaluated which SMTP headers are relevant for REPLY actions in email clients, and which MIME contexts can be considered safe. Based on this (and inspired by DKIM), we make a specific proposal for calculating the decryption context which is sender-enforced and extensible. We have implemented this solution with GnuPG and Thunderbird/Enigmail. It was easy to implement, offered excellent compatibility (low false positive rate when detecting attacks) and mitigated all REPLY and DE attacks conclusively without introducing new cryptographic primitives. I hope these findings are interesting to the OpenPGP community. For example, some of the problems described in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-00.txt can be mitigated using our techniques. Also, the REPLY action behavior of email clients in our evaluation should be useful for the memory hole project, for example. Thanks, Marcus Bibliography: [COVERT] Jens Müller, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Sebastian Schinzel, and Jörg Schwenk. 2019. Re: What’s Up Johnny? – Covert Content Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption. https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1904/1904.07550.pdf. [EFAIL] Damian Poddebniak, Christian Dresen, Jens Müller, Fabian Ising, Sebastian Schinzel, Simon Friedberger, Juraj Somorovsky, and Jörg Schwenk. 2018. Efail: Breaking S/MIME and OpenPGP Email Encryption using Exfiltration Channels. In 27th USENIX Security Symposium, USENIX Security 2018, Baltimore, MD, USA, August 15-17, 2018., William Enck and Adrienne Porter Felt (Eds.). USENIX Association, 549–566. https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/poddebniak -- Dipl.-Math. Marcus Brinkmann Lehrstuhl für Netz- und Datensicherheit Ruhr Universität Bochum Universitätsstr. 150, Geb. ID 2/461 D-44780 Bochum Telefon: +49 (0) 234 / 32-25030 http://www.nds.rub.de/chair/people/mbrinkmann From nobody Tue Nov 3 08:35:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7153A0D9D for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:35:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.246 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.246 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FwRBIjf4DxJg for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7247B3A0A85 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 08:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33E8BE7B; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 16:35:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JpEgvFP8kUSf; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 16:35:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 007B8BE79; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 16:35:39 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1604421340; bh=9uGt3x30XDAlbSEKXE1ViUhb9hAZepGISLdAtARzUAw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=loWDOJ/BJKT8F/uq9BbqMJ/GA3Qz8ZIw09n24/jiLFdf7IXm8XJchzWW8veauiUlV E+mD3/fjYdj1/O7U4m3SgEG9ukIH26ClQyx2FND7CPkioHHqyon6e5GcuZiNlAinZv JoUDykwiYd9WaK2Mji0cMeaUMzFVF+CzDP8dwdZM= To: Marcus Brinkmann , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Schwenk?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Jens_M=c3=bcller?= , Sebastian Schinzel , Damian Poddebniak , Juraj Somorovsky References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <81da533b-094f-b16c-a71b-927441e8c18b@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 16:35:39 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="46ajJi1DwUd4zv5SfgXXkHh30xzR7y43j" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 16:35:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --46ajJi1DwUd4zv5SfgXXkHh30xzR7y43j Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="saZI7IJHv0U4LKRVDQLka0gadCzLIpG7A"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Marcus Brinkmann , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Schwenk?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Jens_M=c3=bcller?= , Sebastian Schinzel , Damian Poddebniak , Juraj Somorovsky Message-ID: <81da533b-094f-b16c-a71b-927441e8c18b@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> In-Reply-To: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> --saZI7IJHv0U4LKRVDQLka0gadCzLIpG7A Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0215E64FC273F507468C45BA" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0215E64FC273F507468C45BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, Interesting work and I look forward to seeing your suggestions as we go. One thing: the DOI URL below gets me a "not found" error but indicates that may change in future. Is that correct? If so, be great if you could send a ping when the paper is available (or another URL to a preprint or whatever). Thanks, S. On 03/11/2020 16:24, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: > Hello, >=20 > we have just published a paper on our research how to mitigate attacks > on email end-to-end encryption. The full paper is available here with > open access: >=20 > J=C3=B6rg Schwenk, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Jens M=C3=BClle= r, Juraj > Somorovsky, and Sebastian Schinzel. 2020. Mitigation of Attacks on Emai= l > End-to-End Encryption. In Proceedings of the 2020 ACM SIGSAC Conference= > on Computer and Communications Security (CCS '20). Association for > Computing Machinery, New York, NY, USA, 1647=E2=80=931664. > DOI:https://doi.org/10.1145/3372297.3417878 >=20 > We have analyzed three attack vectors: EFAIL malleability gadgets (MG),= > EFAIL direct exfiltration (DE), and REPLY attacks. >=20 > MG attacks exploit unauthenticated block cipher modes such as CBC and > CFB, and are mitigated by using an authenticated encryption mode such a= s > AEAD, or by a strict implementation of OpenPGP's modification detection= > code. S/MIME 4.0 and OpenPGP RFC4880bis have added AEAD encryption > modes, and assuming a strict implementation, can also protect against M= G > attacks that way. (Currently, RFC4880bis does allow unsafe > implementations of AEAD, and even encourages them due to unrestricted > chunk sizes. This has been previously discussed, and I will re-raise > this issue when the WG has been reinstantiated). >=20 > EFAIL DE attacks rely on modifications of the MIME structure to embed > authentic ciphertexts in a context that allows exfiltration of the > plaintext after decryption, for example through image source URLs in a > HTML MIME element before the ciphertext. These attacks have also been > published in the EFAIL paper, and so far were only mitigated at the > recipient side by ad-hoc measures in email clients. Our experience was > that developers were struggling to mitigate these attacks. For example,= > we found several bypasses after attempts at mitigation. >=20 > REPLY attacks are known for 20+ years: They rely on modifications of th= e > email header (SMTP) context, that allow the attacker to receive replies= > to authentic ciphertexts, were the victim quotes the plaintext back to > the attacker. To our knowledge, these attacks have not been mitigated s= o > far. We have looked at reply attacks in our paper on covert content > attacks [COVERT]. >=20 > We have looked systematically at these issues, and propose to protect > the MIME and SMTP context of an email by adding a summary of this > decryption contexts (DC) as associated data (AD) in the AEAD encryption= =2E > This way, any significant modification to these contexts that indicate > an attack would lead to a decryption error, rather than emitting the > plaintext to the application, where it would be subject to a large > attack surface to launch DE or REPLY attacks. >=20 > To support this mechanism, OpenPGP RFC4880bis would need to be amended > to allow applications to add arbitrary data to the AD, either directly > (length+value) or by adding a hash representation (constant length). I > plan to introduce a proposal for these changes when the WG is > reinstantiated. >=20 > We have evaluated which SMTP headers are relevant for REPLY actions in > email clients, and which MIME contexts can be considered safe. Based on= > this (and inspired by DKIM), we make a specific proposal for calculatin= g > the decryption context which is sender-enforced and extensible. >=20 > We have implemented this solution with GnuPG and Thunderbird/Enigmail. > It was easy to implement, offered excellent compatibility (low false > positive rate when detecting attacks) and mitigated all REPLY and DE > attacks conclusively without introducing new cryptographic primitives. >=20 > I hope these findings are interesting to the OpenPGP community. For > example, some of the problems described in >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-00.tx= t >=20 > can be mitigated using our techniques. Also, the REPLY action behavior > of email clients in our evaluation should be useful for the memory hole= > project, for example. >=20 > Thanks, > Marcus >=20 >=20 > Bibliography: >=20 > [COVERT] Jens M=C3=BCller, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Sebasti= an > Schinzel, and J=C3=B6rg Schwenk. 2019. Re: What=E2=80=99s Up Johnny? =E2= =80=93 Covert Content > Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption. > https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1904/1904.07550.pdf. >=20 > [EFAIL] Damian Poddebniak, Christian Dresen, Jens M=C3=BCller, Fabian I= sing, > Sebastian Schinzel, Simon Friedberger, Juraj Somorovsky, and J=C3=B6rg > Schwenk. 2018. Efail: Breaking S/MIME and OpenPGP Email Encryption usin= g > Exfiltration Channels. In 27th USENIX Security Symposium, USENIX > Security 2018, Baltimore, MD, USA, August 15-17, 2018., William Enck an= d > Adrienne Porter Felt (Eds.). USENIX Association, 549=E2=80=93566. > https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/poddebn= iak >=20 --------------0215E64FC273F507468C45BA Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY 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by mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix idis) with ESMTP id 4CQbgg0434z8SPb; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 18:02:39 +0100 (CET) X-Envelope-Sender: X-RUB-Notes: Internal origin=IPv6:2a05:3e00:c:1001::8693:2aee Received: from mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [IPv6:2a05:3e00:c:1001::8693:2aee]) by out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix mi-int) with ESMTP id 4CQbgf1PcPz8SW7; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 18:02:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.1 at mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Received: from [192.168.142.186] (p5dca48ad.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.202.72.173]) by mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CQbgd5f3XzDh15; Tue, 3 Nov 2020 18:02:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de To: Stephen Farrell , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Schwenk?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Jens_M=c3=bcller?= , Sebastian Schinzel , Damian Poddebniak , Juraj Somorovsky References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> <81da533b-094f-b16c-a71b-927441e8c18b@cs.tcd.ie> From: Marcus Brinkmann Message-ID: <4aab24c2-b6f8-4087-5634-0d93bde1060e@rub.de> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 18:02:37 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81da533b-094f-b16c-a71b-927441e8c18b@cs.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 17:02:44 -0000 Hi, sorry, I did not test the DOI. The URL is: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3372297.3417878 The PDF is at: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3372297.3417878 Thanks, Marcus On 11/3/20 5:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > Interesting work and I look forward to seeing your > suggestions as we go. > > One thing: the DOI URL below gets me a "not found" > error but indicates that may change in future. Is > that correct? If so, be great if you could send a > ping when the paper is available (or another URL > to a preprint or whatever). > > Thanks, > S. > > > On 03/11/2020 16:24, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: >> Hello, >> >> we have just published a paper on our research how to mitigate attacks >> on email end-to-end encryption. The full paper is available here with >> open access: >> >> Jörg Schwenk, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Jens Müller, Juraj >> Somorovsky, and Sebastian Schinzel. 2020. Mitigation of Attacks on Email >> End-to-End Encryption. In Proceedings of the 2020 ACM SIGSAC Conference >> on Computer and Communications Security (CCS '20). Association for >> Computing Machinery, New York, NY, USA, 1647–1664. >> DOI:https://doi.org/10.1145/3372297.3417878 >> >> We have analyzed three attack vectors: EFAIL malleability gadgets (MG), >> EFAIL direct exfiltration (DE), and REPLY attacks. >> >> MG attacks exploit unauthenticated block cipher modes such as CBC and >> CFB, and are mitigated by using an authenticated encryption mode such as >> AEAD, or by a strict implementation of OpenPGP's modification detection >> code.  S/MIME 4.0 and OpenPGP RFC4880bis have added AEAD encryption >> modes, and assuming a strict implementation, can also protect against MG >> attacks that way. (Currently, RFC4880bis does allow unsafe >> implementations of AEAD, and even encourages them due to unrestricted >> chunk sizes. This has been previously discussed, and I will re-raise >> this issue when the WG has been reinstantiated). >> >> EFAIL DE attacks rely on modifications of the MIME structure to embed >> authentic ciphertexts in a context that allows exfiltration of the >> plaintext after decryption, for example through image source URLs in a >> HTML MIME element before the ciphertext. These attacks have also been >> published in the EFAIL paper, and so far were only mitigated at the >> recipient side by ad-hoc measures in email clients. Our experience was >> that developers were struggling to mitigate these attacks. For example, >> we found several bypasses after attempts at mitigation. >> >> REPLY attacks are known for 20+ years: They rely on modifications of the >> email header (SMTP) context, that allow the attacker to receive replies >> to authentic ciphertexts, were the victim quotes the plaintext back to >> the attacker. To our knowledge, these attacks have not been mitigated so >> far. We have looked at reply attacks in our paper on covert content >> attacks [COVERT]. >> >> We have looked systematically at these issues, and propose to protect >> the MIME and SMTP context of an email by adding a summary of this >> decryption contexts (DC) as associated data (AD) in the AEAD encryption. >> This way, any significant modification to these contexts that indicate >> an attack would lead to a decryption error, rather than emitting the >> plaintext to the application, where it would be subject to a large >> attack surface to launch DE or REPLY attacks. >> >> To support this mechanism, OpenPGP RFC4880bis would need to be amended >> to allow applications to add arbitrary data to the AD, either directly >> (length+value) or by adding a hash representation (constant length). I >> plan to introduce a proposal for these changes when the WG is >> reinstantiated. >> >> We have evaluated which SMTP headers are relevant for REPLY actions in >> email clients, and which MIME contexts can be considered safe. Based on >> this (and inspired by DKIM), we make a specific proposal for calculating >> the decryption context which is sender-enforced and extensible. >> >> We have implemented this solution with GnuPG and Thunderbird/Enigmail. >> It was easy to implement, offered excellent compatibility (low false >> positive rate when detecting attacks) and mitigated all REPLY and DE >> attacks conclusively without introducing new cryptographic primitives. >> >> I hope these findings are interesting to the OpenPGP community. For >> example, some of the problems described in >> >> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-00.txt >> >> can be mitigated using our techniques. Also, the REPLY action behavior >> of email clients in our evaluation should be useful for the memory hole >> project, for example. >> >> Thanks, >> Marcus >> >> >> Bibliography: >> >> [COVERT] Jens Müller, Marcus Brinkmann, Damian Poddebniak, Sebastian >> Schinzel, and Jörg Schwenk. 2019. Re: What’s Up Johnny? – Covert Content >> Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption. >> https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1904/1904.07550.pdf. >> >> [EFAIL] Damian Poddebniak, Christian Dresen, Jens Müller, Fabian Ising, >> Sebastian Schinzel, Simon Friedberger, Juraj Somorovsky, and Jörg >> Schwenk. 2018. Efail: Breaking S/MIME and OpenPGP Email Encryption using >> Exfiltration Channels. In 27th USENIX Security Symposium, USENIX >> Security 2018, Baltimore, MD, USA, August 15-17, 2018., William Enck and >> Adrienne Porter Felt (Eds.). USENIX Association, 549–566. >> https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/poddebniak >> >> -- Dipl.-Math. Marcus Brinkmann Lehrstuhl für Netz- und Datensicherheit Ruhr Universität Bochum Universitätsstr. 150, Geb. ID 2/461 D-44780 Bochum Telefon: +49 (0) 234 / 32-25030 http://www.nds.rub.de/chair/people/mbrinkmann From nobody Wed Nov 4 12:24:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444993A0D20 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:24:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wEH-Ce53qGxd for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEAA13A0CE7 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A4KOK3X012916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 4 Nov 2020 15:24:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:24:20 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Derek Atkins , Paul Wouters Cc: Stephen Farrell , "openpgp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20201104202420.GT39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <20201020215929.GR39170@kduck.mit.edu> <260d532c97cfcf8285f68fa6080c809317646a76.camel@16bits.net> <73b6595fad9bd10d2772a5c6842adabc.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> <0FC168CB-4394-4924-82B9-B40A15969FF0@ribose.com> <8e5fca53-4a3c-bb64-ef87-3a0f9d4bc11b@cs.tcd.ie> <58d51c58b524765c9952a3502f70dbcb.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <58d51c58b524765c9952a3502f70dbcb.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] heads-up: re-chartering the OPENPGP WG X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 20:24:33 -0000 Hi Derek, Paul, On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 08:36:25AM -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: > > On Wed, October 21, 2020 8:33 am, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > > On 21/10/2020 13:01, Derek Atkins wrote: > > >> > >> Or is the plan to start from the current rfc4880bis draft and work from > >> there to get it across the finish line? > > > > More or less. > > > > There will of course need to be a discussion about WG > > adoption of a draft but IIUC the goal will be for that to > > basically start from the current bis draft. What I don't > > know is whether or not there are parts in the current draft > > that a WG would rather not have and how that might affect > > people's opinions on adoption. I do believe a WG would want > > almost all of the bis text so starting from testing that > > (via a WG adoption discussion) seems like a plan to me. > > But again, that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves. > > > >> The current wording in the charter leads me to the former and not the > >> latter process. Can you please confirm? > > > > Feel free to suggest some words pointing out it's the > > latter. (Or I can try later on, if that's better.) > > Maybe the simplest way would be to change: > > The Working Group will perform the following work: > > - Revise RFC4880 > > to read: > > - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880bis draft. I'm happy to put that change in, as it reflects what I understand to be the universal or near-universal sentiment. On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 09:29:48PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Wed, 21 Oct 2020, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > The draft charter is at [1]. > > I would remove the "Other work related to OpenPGP" section. One of the > issues in this group has been sudden new items appearing and being > worked on without consensus. Modify the charter after 4880bis is done > to do "other work" I didn't see anyone else respond on this point, even with Stephen's prompting, so I didn't make a change at this time. Happy to revisit it if needed, especially if there are text suggestions. On a more practical note, I think it would be hard to keep us from talking about other things, so to some extent that paragraph is just conceding to reality, while acknowledging that we do want to try to stay focused on 4880bis. Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and being understanding about the slightly weird process I ended up having this recharter go through. -Ben From nobody Thu Nov 5 01:49:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietf.org Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3883A0DDF; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 01:49:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: openpgp-chairs@ietf.org, openpgp@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <160456975729.19433.13353452999589156795@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 01:49:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_charter?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-openpgp-02-02=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 09:49:18 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-openpgp-02-02: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- While I support the creation of the WG, I have some comments on the charter: 1) is it necessary to include the first four paragraphs about the history ? 2) the charter insists on 'no delay' but the previous version of the charter is dated 2015... ;-) 3) is the word 'entertain' the right one in "OpenPGP may be entertained by the working group" ? For a non-English speaker, the word 'entertain' is about getting fun but there seems to be other meaning 4) in"the working group will accept no I-D" s/accept/adopt/ ? 5) I do not know about the context, but the last paragraph looks to me like requesting a WGLC before adoption. Also, it requires two reviews but what will happen if those two reviews are negative ? From nobody Thu Nov 5 05:21:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietf.org Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E951B3A10FA; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:21:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: openpgp-chairs@ietf.org, openpgp@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <160458247450.18017.13134459554784542832@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 05:21:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-openpgp-02-02: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:21:15 -0000 Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-openpgp-02-02: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Furthermore, the working group will accept no I-D's as working group > items unless there is a review by at least two un-interested parties of > the I-D as part of the acceptance process. Does this mean that the working group won't adopt any IDs as working group items unless it has been reviewed by two un-interested parties? If so, perhaps change accept/acceptance to adopt/adoption? From nobody Thu Nov 5 09:18:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9E53A1953; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RmIvClKDYyhD; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F343A18E0; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF2338C82; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 4fQZBKaNcNyy; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BAF238C80; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAE826; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:17:56 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: =?us-ascii?Q?=3D=3Futf-8=3Fq=3F=3DC3=3D89ric=5FVyncke=3F=3D?= , "The IESG" , openpgp@ietf.org, openpgp-chairs@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <160456975729.19433.13353452999589156795@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <160456975729.19433.13353452999589156795@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_charter?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-openpgp-02-02=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 17:18:07 -0000 =C3=89ric Vyncke via Datatracker wrote: > 1) is it necessary to include the first four paragraphs about the > history ? I think so. > 2) the charter insists on 'no delay' but the previous version of the > charter is dated 2015... ;-) well, that refers to new work, right? > 3) is the word 'entertain' the right one in "OpenPGP may be entertain= ed > by the working group" ? For a non-English speaker, the word 'entertai= n' > is about getting fun but there seems to be other meaning yes, it's correct. > 5) I do not know about the context, but the last paragraph looks to me > like requesting a WGLC before adoption. Also, it requires two reviews > but what will happen if those two reviews are negative ? It is odd. I think though, that the intent is WG is not going to standardize things th= at don't have support of a few implementors. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ From nobody Thu Nov 5 16:00:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3AF3A08B8 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 16:00:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.306 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.306 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b=MKWEFRyQ; 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prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXEK/AhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAr/gSROcn+6m8ijTN0DV9AahoHGafy52RRkhCZVwxhEe0K0Rh bmllbCBLYWhuIEdpbGxtb3IgPGRrZ0BmaWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldD6ImQQTFggAQQIbAQULCQgH AgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAIZARYhBMS8Lds4zOlkhevpwvIGkReQOOXGBQJd5Hw3BQkFpJWB AAoJEPIGkReQOOXGDYEA/j0ERjPxDleKMZ2LDcWc/3o5cLFwAVzBKQHppu0Be5IWAP0aeTnyEqlp RTE7M8zugwkhYeUYfYu0BjecDUMnYz6iDLgzBF3kewUWCSsGAQQB2kcPAQEHQK1IuW0GZmcrs2mx CYMl8IHse0tMF8cP7eBNXevrlx2ZiPUEGBYIACYCGwIWIQTEvC3bOMzpZIXr6cLyBpEXkDjlxgUC XeR7TwUJAiGl/gCBdiAEGRYIAB0WIQQsv6x2UaqQJzY+dXHEDyVUMvKBDwUCXeR7BQAKCRDEDyVU MvKBD7KmAQCHs+7588C4jto6fMje0Nu97zzoppjJM7lrGF2rVnbHvwD+MgmGUbHzPSUrTWnZBQDi /QM595bxNrBA4N1CiXhs2AMJEPIGkReQOOXGpp0BAM7YeBnt/UNvxJAGm4DidSfHU7RDMWe6Tgux HrH21cDkAQC9leNFXJsQ7F2ZniRPHa8CkictcQEKPL8VCWpfe8LbArg4BF3ke5wSCisGAQQBl1UB BQEBB0Cf+EiAXtntQMf51xpqb6uZ5O0eCLAZtkg0SXHjA1JlEwMBCAeIfgQYFggAJhYhBMS8Lds4 zOlkhevpwvIGkReQOOXGBQJd5HucAhsMBQkCIaVkAAoJEPIGkReQOOXGdYcBANYnW7VyL2CncKH1 iO4Zr0IwfdIv6rai1PUHL98pVi3cAP9tMh85CKGDa0Xi/fptQH41meollLW5tLb/bEWMuUNuBQ== Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 18:59:46 -0500 Message-ID: <87blgbicct.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] heads-up: re-chartering the OPENPGP WG X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 00:00:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Wed 2020-11-04 12:24:20 -0800, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 08:36:25AM -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: >> - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880bis draft. > > I'm happy to put that change in, as it reflects what I understand to be the > universal or near-universal sentiment. To be clear, i think the much of the work in the current rfc4880bis draft does address the outstanding chartered items, has widespread adoption and documented WG consensus, or is part of straightforward editorial cleanup. There are other parts of the current rfc4880bis that do not address chartered items, are not widely deployed, or have not gained consensus. For the former set, we will absolutely start from the text in the current rfc4880bis. For the parts that are in the latter set, we should reserve any already-documented codepoints in 4880bis, and encourage advocates who care to advance individual drafts that flesh them out further. For what it's worth, this latter set includes things that i have advocated for, so i'll be following this approach myself. If the reformed WG can publish an actual rfc4880bis, as chartered and with consensus and multiple implementations, then we should talk about rechartering so we can adopt those individual drafts as WG items. --dkg --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQQsv6x2UaqQJzY+dXHEDyVUMvKBDwUCX6SR9AAKCRDEDyVUMvKB D7FgAQDRlIEvmTPJhlzUHPSkHzpGPkWiQrObSA7ihPqgW0OeKAEAzZ+mkdkp6sUX uLpbvFavCHiwN01+6OvntVgRYdNbxww= =1u73 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Nov 6 13:52:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDF13A0D98 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 13:52:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXhZvl4RB_uK for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 13:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C4C93A0D86 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 13:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EFD38C3C; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 4Ff5ZPnbrB1w; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C7F38C38; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AF8E7; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:52:23 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "openpgp\@ietf.org" , Daniel Kahn Gillmor cc: Benjamin Kaduk In-Reply-To: <87blgbicct.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> References: <20201020215929.GR39170@kduck.mit.edu> <260d532c97cfcf8285f68fa6080c809317646a76.camel@16bits.net> <73b6595fad9bd10d2772a5c6842adabc.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> <0FC168CB-4394-4924-82B9-B40A15969FF0@ribose.com> <8e5fca53-4a3c-bb64-ef87-3a0f9d4bc11b@cs.tcd.ie> <58d51c58b524765c9952a3502f70dbcb.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> <20201104202420.GT39170@kduck.mit.edu> <87blgbicct.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] heads-up: re-chartering the OPENPGP WG X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2020 21:52:29 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On Wed 2020-11-04 12:24:20 -0800, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 08:36:25AM -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880b= is draft. >> >> I'm happy to put that change in, as it reflects what I understand to= be the >> universal or near-universal sentiment. > To be clear, i think the much of the work in the current rfc4880bis > draft does address the outstanding chartered items, has widespread > adoption and documented WG consensus, or is part of straightforward > editorial cleanup. There are other parts of the current rfc4880bis t= hat > do not address chartered items, are not widely deployed, or have not > gained consensus. It seems to me that we need to: 1) adopt a document which is rfc4880-equivalent. 2) identify the pieces which have "widespread adoption" and/or are "editori= al cleanup", so that we can clearly have documented WG consensus. 3) publish a document. I even wonder if that document might be Internet Standard, if the items are widely deployed. (Note that also involve cutting the pieces in 4880 that were never deplo= yed) 4) re-cycle on the parts which did make the above cut. > For the former set, we will absolutely start from the text in the > current rfc4880bis. For the parts that are in the latter set, we sho= uld > reserve any already-documented codepoints in 4880bis, and encourage > advocates who care to advance individual drafts that flesh them out > further. For what it's worth, this latter set includes things that i > have advocated for, so i'll be following this approach myself. I don't think we can start from the document which has been reposted because they didn't have a WG to get consensus from. We have to start from rfc4880. Adding this bis pieces in a clear -01/-02 shouldn't take that long. AT MOST, one IETF meeting cycle, less if we employ some virtual interims. > If the reformed WG can publish an actual rfc4880bis, as chartered and > with consensus and multiple implementations, then we should talk about > rechartering so we can adopt those individual drafts as WG items. I agree. =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl+lxZcACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXTPgf+K1+KnVz7cn1c57SSv+9mCGYSyhxh4FFRfe52mHZT/8nqYqxYOd+opZJQ xCev0gRcB09GAwXuzdU8gBLMktcDgSddpbnAJ+TTkhXEE3UiAytUmf64DBeK69Eq FUnkfNdMxI0WiUJyeCEN9HtMEhc/VaYgLOM1+Nn8ugUVAd2WYsx2k12PALwJCD5v 0flhdFKYNPn1vmHnfX7PJePQdARYrMCmNYAgtDK+YjWlJuGqqxStaQiWzJJizFlS iXk2hDCf4LxX1LDDjv79MwswQfKkj4R18Rk4W1gygdidfEFjBEl3XAE0vbnqARO4 HgPqkh/CHUcqF2K/cjHnSBoPpWy54g== =9qEC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Nov 7 23:27:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39CB3A109A for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:27:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlEANyeGeT3e for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 500013A0A7B for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A87QgME010344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 8 Nov 2020 02:26:49 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:26:42 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: openpgp@ietf.org, =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg?= Schwenk , Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= , Sebastian Schinzel , Damian Poddebniak , Juraj Somorovsky Message-ID: <20201108072642.GP39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 07:27:03 -0000 Hi Marcus, Thanks for posting this (and the work itself, of course)! On Tue, Nov 03, 2020 at 05:24:58PM +0100, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: [...] > > REPLY attacks are known for 20+ years: They rely on modifications of the > email header (SMTP) context, that allow the attacker to receive replies > to authentic ciphertexts, were the victim quotes the plaintext back to > the attacker. To our knowledge, these attacks have not been mitigated so > far. We have looked at reply attacks in our paper on covert content > attacks [COVERT]. > > We have looked systematically at these issues, and propose to protect > the MIME and SMTP context of an email by adding a summary of this > decryption contexts (DC) as associated data (AD) in the AEAD encryption. > This way, any significant modification to these contexts that indicate > an attack would lead to a decryption error, rather than emitting the > plaintext to the application, where it would be subject to a large > attack surface to launch DE or REPLY attacks. > > To support this mechanism, OpenPGP RFC4880bis would need to be amended > to allow applications to add arbitrary data to the AD, either directly > (length+value) or by adding a hash representation (constant length). I > plan to introduce a proposal for these changes when the WG is > reinstantiated. > > We have evaluated which SMTP headers are relevant for REPLY actions in > email clients, and which MIME contexts can be considered safe. Based on > this (and inspired by DKIM), we make a specific proposal for calculating > the decryption context which is sender-enforced and extensible. I'll also leave a link to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lamps-header-protection-02 that, IIUC, is attempting to address similar issues for S/MIME. -Ben From nobody Mon Nov 9 05:10:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BE83A1090 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:10:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=rub.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cPYDPPWjqlLL for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.42.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 114A93A1095 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix mo-ext) with ESMTP id 4CVBF52zQbz8SMy for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:10:33 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=rub.de; s=mail-2017; t=1604927433; bh=JoZIySACNcGrcM2n7+oaIsJW/nIvXPgST0sMgv+6oBk=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=xRQ0xiRQVJdpxxlVBl3LNcbnMhlfxV1+SxN/0VwRM5HzKlHnx4c3XDQaYWHc5cjDQ Xd/niDvj3KCjsPuSRv7uBU+/FcUcWFVz8AqHvXeR05ZGbgDG6AHTfyS/1GRc922C35 3m/93diaDjuP19Z21oP7eosXtkEvkEHmSocscV38= Received: from out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix idis) with ESMTP id 4CVBF51VG3z8SMp for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:10:33 +0100 (CET) X-Envelope-Sender: X-RUB-Notes: Internal origin=134.147.42.236 Received: from mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.42.236]) by out2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix mi-int) with ESMTP id 4CVBF467qtz8SMZ for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:10:32 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.1 at mx2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Received: from [192.168.142.186] (p5dca4d3f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.202.77.63]) by mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CVBF425SMzDh1j for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:10:32 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.4 at mail2.mail.ruhr-uni-bochum.de To: openpgp@ietf.org References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> <20201108072642.GP39170@kduck.mit.edu> From: Marcus Brinkmann Message-ID: <8a3aaa89-c95f-ebfe-944a-343939aba884@rub.de> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:10:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201108072642.GP39170@kduck.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:10:39 -0000 Hi, Thanks for reminding me about previous efforts for header protection. We mention Memory Hole in the paper, but a longer discussion had to be left out because of the page limit. The main point to keep in mind is that if protected headers are encrypted, they can't be verified before decryption. This means that there is a window for an attacker to potentially exploit. The semantics of AEAD ensure that no unauthenticated plaintext is emitted, closing this gap conclusively. Having two (or more!) sets of headers, one unprotected and one protected, can also be very error prone and lead to usability issues. Previous efforts have focussed on privacy, rather than as a defense to attacks. That said, our analysis of headers used in REPLY actions should be very relevant to other efforts protecting headers as well. Thanks, Marcus On 11/8/20 8:26 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > I'll also leave a link to > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lamps-header-protection-02 that, > IIUC, is attempting to address similar issues for S/MIME. -- Dipl.-Math. Marcus Brinkmann Lehrstuhl für Netz- und Datensicherheit Ruhr Universität Bochum Universitätsstr. 150, Geb. ID 2/461 D-44780 Bochum Telefon: +49 (0) 234 / 32-25030 http://www.nds.rub.de/chair/people/mbrinkmann From nobody Mon Nov 9 14:29:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F2C3A104B; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:29:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJM7tEKde163; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D78B3A1490; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0A9MSats032668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:28:41 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:28:36 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: openpgp@ietf.org Message-ID: <20201109222836.GB39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> <20201108072642.GP39170@kduck.mit.edu> <8a3aaa89-c95f-ebfe-944a-343939aba884@rub.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8a3aaa89-c95f-ebfe-944a-343939aba884@rub.de> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:29:19 -0000 On Mon, Nov 09, 2020 at 02:10:31PM +0100, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for reminding me about previous efforts for header protection. We > mention Memory Hole in the paper, but a longer discussion had to be left > out because of the page limit. > > The main point to keep in mind is that if protected headers are > encrypted, they can't be verified before decryption. This means that > there is a window for an attacker to potentially exploit. The semantics > of AEAD ensure that no unauthenticated plaintext is emitted, closing > this gap conclusively. > > Having two (or more!) sets of headers, one unprotected and one > protected, can also be very error prone and lead to usability issues. > > Previous efforts have focussed on privacy, rather than as a defense to > attacks. That said, our analysis of headers used in REPLY actions should > be very relevant to other efforts protecting headers as well. Indeed, and thanks again. -Ben From nobody Fri Nov 13 23:08:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772E3A126E for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 23:08:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.306 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.306 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b=l+MSppT3; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b=AvBdc5oG Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C0W5-xPlxciN for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 23:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (unknown [162.247.75.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A08E03A126C for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2020 23:08:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019; t=1605337681; h=from : to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=m6bU6i/2EtNa5g/miylderWQWxrcG6fA5CLK0cTYJDU=; b=l+MSppT3AVPcxcv+vqlwXCmTLoZOGz6aiu+ixt+29c89EckpwJ0ILC9XjeUWxqfE5knCS 31rR0M3lllyPwm1BA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019rsa; t=1605337681; h=from : to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=m6bU6i/2EtNa5g/miylderWQWxrcG6fA5CLK0cTYJDU=; b=AvBdc5oGNLUVLbx5LRCzMQUr7kh64dhFJrcGmCHTsDlw3GNc2XHWWYtocmdOUgZngOUjI qj3DAB8GmcHhYv40JBwLaUozyT3If1ugrp1IpwHdXJixwt3ldPj4DrZ6gzfhlkYTJUeFaW3 bj0VcIktEBNqgSGVMLC+X3LRAoCJD59zvcZtEDK4VmCg0mLCqn9frZOh9g0PsWQBUyj5HH9 DXsOqA+st14hzdCz2BxC1+ykHB+Bg0MFVcxHO2YPaZpgPM/hdaiTahCZgH6jEZUPzrIm1o/ dZJywfY51ngO/9e/yAPu9LLFWBOA14nffFg0GM4oLwvIYHfFefUpOLA17XXw== Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [108.58.6.98]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0BBBAF9A5; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 02:08:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A585F20831; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 02:07:51 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: Marcus Brinkmann , openpgp@ietf.org Cc: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg?= Schwenk , Jens =?utf-8?Q?M?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=BCller?= , Sebastian Schinzel , Damian Poddebniak , Juraj Somorovsky In-Reply-To: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> References: <80af2d9c-f646-4167-209d-5fb35c880682@rub.de> Autocrypt: addr=dkg@fifthhorseman.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXEK/AhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAr/gSROcn+6m8ijTN0DV9AahoHGafy52RRkhCZVwxhEe0K0Rh bmllbCBLYWhuIEdpbGxtb3IgPGRrZ0BmaWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldD6ImQQTFggAQQIbAQULCQgH AgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAIZARYhBMS8Lds4zOlkhevpwvIGkReQOOXGBQJd5Hw3BQkFpJWB AAoJEPIGkReQOOXGDYEA/j0ERjPxDleKMZ2LDcWc/3o5cLFwAVzBKQHppu0Be5IWAP0aeTnyEqlp RTE7M8zugwkhYeUYfYu0BjecDUMnYz6iDLgzBF3kewUWCSsGAQQB2kcPAQEHQK1IuW0GZmcrs2mx CYMl8IHse0tMF8cP7eBNXevrlx2ZiPUEGBYIACYCGwIWIQTEvC3bOMzpZIXr6cLyBpEXkDjlxgUC XeR7TwUJAiGl/gCBdiAEGRYIAB0WIQQsv6x2UaqQJzY+dXHEDyVUMvKBDwUCXeR7BQAKCRDEDyVU MvKBD7KmAQCHs+7588C4jto6fMje0Nu97zzoppjJM7lrGF2rVnbHvwD+MgmGUbHzPSUrTWnZBQDi /QM595bxNrBA4N1CiXhs2AMJEPIGkReQOOXGpp0BAM7YeBnt/UNvxJAGm4DidSfHU7RDMWe6Tgux HrH21cDkAQC9leNFXJsQ7F2ZniRPHa8CkictcQEKPL8VCWpfe8LbArg4BF3ke5wSCisGAQQBl1UB BQEBB0Cf+EiAXtntQMf51xpqb6uZ5O0eCLAZtkg0SXHjA1JlEwMBCAeIfgQYFggAJhYhBMS8Lds4 zOlkhevpwvIGkReQOOXGBQJd5HucAhsMBQkCIaVkAAoJEPIGkReQOOXGdYcBANYnW7VyL2CncKH1 iO4Zr0IwfdIv6rai1PUHL98pVi3cAP9tMh85CKGDa0Xi/fptQH41meollLW5tLb/bEWMuUNuBQ== Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 02:07:50 -0500 Message-ID: <877dqofmbd.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Mitigation of Attacks on Email End-to-End Encryption X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 07:08:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Tue 2020-11-03 17:24:58 +0100, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: > I hope these findings are interesting to the OpenPGP community. They definitely are, thanks. > For example, some of the problems described in > > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-00.txt > > can be mitigated using our techniques. I'd welcome contributions (and co-editors) on that document if any of the authors of this work. I would hope it's a way that we can publish specific guidance like this in the IETF. Alexey Melnikov has asked the LAMPS WG to adopt that draft, and we'll be discussing it in the upcoming LAMPS meeting at IETF 109 on Tuesday, if you want to join the discussion remotely. Thanks very much for doing this work! --dkg --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQQsv6x2UaqQJzY+dXHEDyVUMvKBDwUCX6+CRwAKCRDEDyVUMvKB D+SRAQCCfNOPtbFnn8mrpDdilIiAIb66hZ+7DIdCobPVrVaZLQD/TLy42wQdR0RN c9pEXWN8h+KDL/DBmZDFisisv0mu1gE= =WRBO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Nov 18 05:06:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC083A1878 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 05:06:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uRWm_sW-XMaA for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 05:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.dasr.de (mail.dasr.de [217.69.77.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B7423A1884 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 05:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pd9e79cc0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.231.156.192] helo=forster.huenfield.org) by mail.dasr.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kfN9r-0007N5-C8; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:05:59 +0000 Received: from grit.huenfield.org ([192.168.20.9] helo=grit.walfield.org) by forster.huenfield.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kfN9q-0003Am-R9; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:05:59 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:05:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87tutm3jd5.wl-neal@walfield.org> From: "Neal H. Walfield" To: openpgp@ietf.org, devel@lists.sequoia-pgp.org In-Reply-To: <20201025010343.GA1089002@fullerene.field.pennock-tech.net> References: <87sga5xg03.wl-neal@walfield.org> <20201023192317.GA444398@fullerene.field.pennock-tech.net> <87lffvy6kf.wl-neal@walfield.org> <20201025010343.GA1089002@fullerene.field.pennock-tech.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/26 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.168.20.9 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: neal@walfield.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on forster.huenfield.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] SHA1 Linter & Fixer X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:06:04 -0000 Hi Phil, On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 02:03:43 +0100, Phil Pennock wrote: > I held off on "asking others to write software for me" in the previous > post, keeping it to "this exists now". This time around, I'm throwing > out a "Hey, pgpkey-sanitycheck would be a nice tool to have, folks" and > running away. I've written a certificate linter and fixer that does what you want, I think. You can find it here: https://gitlab.com/sequoia-pgp/keyring-linter https://crates.io/crates/sequoia-keyring-linter It detects and optionally fixes the following three types of issues: - A User ID's current self signature relies on SHA-1; - A Subkey's current binding signature relies on SHA-1; and, - A Signing-capable subkey's current primary key binding signature (backsig) relies on SHA-1. To just lint a key, one would do: $ sq-keyring-linter microsoft.asc Certificate 6CC73355668F7B75 is not valid under the standard policy Certificate 6CC73355668F7B75 contains a User ID ("Microsoft Security Notifications ") protected by SHA-1 Examined 1 certificate. 0 certificates are invalid and were not linted. (GOOD) 1 certificate was linted. 1 of the 1 linted certificates (100%) has at least one issue. (BAD) 1 certificate has at least one non-revoked User IDs: 1 has at least one User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 1 has all User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 0 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live subkeys: 0 have at least one non-revoked, live subkeys with a binding signature that uses SHA-1. (GOOD) 0 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys: 0 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys with a strong binding signature, but a backsig that uses SHA-1. (GOOD) The tool lists the specific issues that it finds and then prints show statistics. The statistics are more useful when examining a keyring: $ sq-keyring-linter /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg ... Examined 885 certificates. 1 certificate is invalid and was not linted. (BAD) 884 certificates were linted. 207 of the 884 linted certificates (23%) have at least one issue. (BAD) 884 certificates have at least one non-revoked User IDs: 169 have at least one User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 106 have all User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 836 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live subkeys: 160 have at least one non-revoked, live subkeys with a binding signature that uses SHA-1. (BAD) 230 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys: 10 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys with a strong binding signature, but a backsig that uses SHA-1. (BAD) To fix a key, you need the secret key material. If that's available, it's straightforward: $ gpg --export-secret-key 4BE50C526C743502 | sq-keyring-linter --fix | gpg --import Certificate 4BE50C526C743502 is not valid under the standard policy Certificate 4BE50C526C743502 contains a User ID ("SHA1 User ID, SHA256 Subkeys ") protected by SHA-1 Certificate 4BE50C526C743502, key CC6387BFA4D9263D uses a SHA-1-protected binding signature. Examined 1 certificate. 0 certificates are invalid and were not linted. (GOOD) 1 certificate was linted. 1 of the 1 linted certificates (100%) has at least one issue. (BAD) 1 certificate has at least one non-revoked User IDs: 1 has at least one User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 1 has all User IDs protected by SHA-1. (BAD) 1 certificate has at least one non-revoked, live subkeys: 1 has at least one non-revoked, live subkeys with a binding signature that uses SHA-1. (BAD) 1 certificate has at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys: 0 certificates have at least one non-revoked, live, signing-capable subkeys with a strong binding signature, but a backsig that uses SHA-1. (GOOD) gpg: key 4BE50C526C743502: "SHA1 User ID, SHA256 Subkeys " 2 new signatures gpg: Total number processed: 1 gpg: new signatures: 2 Looking at the output, we see that two issues were corrected. Although you can build from source, if you are on Debian, the latest version of the tool, 0.3.0, should hit Debian unstable in the next few days (thanks dkg!). (The current version, 0.1.0, in Debian only includes the linter functionality.) https://packages.debian.org/sid/sq-keyring-linter If you have any feedback on the concept, I suspect that replying here would be okay. But tool-specific issues are probably off topic and should go to the tool's issue tracker or our mailing list (devel@sequoia-pgp.org, cc'ed): https://gitlab.com/sequoia-pgp/keyring-linter/-/issues Thanks! :) Neal From nobody Wed Nov 18 06:35:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055373A09DB; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rHi7POe4dtoD; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C34493A09E0; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5B3BE56; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:35:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1S1rF93S41ph; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:35:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F4210BE53; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:35:33 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1605710134; bh=TQ737br3FMuiayTbLooDTVMDZ1WLwNE8JIRxGFYLZwM=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=Fh/lXEvK+7rt91ClcJeRvTr+HqouQFkZZm3PKhYRXO9ntmdwKGlCKQDmvv8hawVC4 kBE/xOr8DgJlAPoZiLZkhlptSbsM3gpi2h2DGWhYkAdJSgZbaqADiRNDoVDVvLtR09 bTpJaOE0KOwY2PtkCv4X7truOUJ46dzHgMUfimvQ= To: "saag@ietf.org" , "openpgp@ietf.org" From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <5987434a-ceb7-bbc7-2c39-3428298a113e@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:35:33 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iBcWfOXCM6s58wvHqcsESyTbImya88Ztw" Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] OpenPGP wg notes for saag X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:35:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iBcWfOXCM6s58wvHqcsESyTbImya88Ztw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="f2ig9sGk8mWNnXNThAjBIf8r38dgxXqkm"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "saag@ietf.org" , "openpgp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <5987434a-ceb7-bbc7-2c39-3428298a113e@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: OpenPGP wg notes for saag --f2ig9sGk8mWNnXNThAjBIf8r38dgxXqkm Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0CF021A5FFA5AD8542BF063F" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0CF021A5FFA5AD8542BF063F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The OpenPGP wg hasn't yet formally awoken from slumber but there's a charter [1] in the process of (hopefully) being approved by the IESG so it should be a WG next time, focused on producing an update to RFC4880 as it's main work item. Cheers, S & D. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ --------------0CF021A5FFA5AD8542BF063F Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY Ea7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8D= VQu 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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl+1MTUFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+r3 VQ/8Dty8i58m42zEyGoYOhy+8pbintjAe2KHSEJMASvWHkTvyOsAbdGxWj/kzoIMaizUaxENGr2t KaJMF3pSMi6TgA/PaP0654tI0a4qk8KX6g/2iTloE2k6XQyz0aDsuFmlp/CcNeXa8VS20K7ObSs4 GmvD6oIwS8dxeoe6VRMwv6/rkBLgFSujHBS4xwcSJoZfZ5ZaJusXLflWU4tUgNo9CSKv/MCki3ms PZ7qhnthHPQGONf5xVPFNKcv65QwlnI8X/Sq26KRH7r5oMLEl+k5T2hqDaEpv+56djl1jJbE8kOU 8hx6z5PSQjz4OXfbMv4BF7owo9erd7kHxde5JIe/r5WsYFN+1bhq1ey4cbAgzGyhJjr3wM3qKEoD JT0wZxrv7Z2AOqzQx+vZLPc4uWk8EDwKYuz0PVG3aV0g0VwbfoU3fdFngh+LJcFPcUDy/+zoPesw 5MdFsiYsF6TtbaqJPFAS3Jq2yo9/pNibvZqIDzOdwk6CdxMNR26KFitN7hVBvZOVCDrlTYeNkM/3 bY0YaBwMqpCaHBIYt7oVMCzZKUGGrrVHBG0obfgKj+e24Ttf+gzl8kQIBMA1d1Byoo1Aovv58zZE D5iYGM0sxt497LHo9agLBqUOoUvxXHph9zFdRQVBVUlEIt6Jeo69Bv46XzuXDn6mSO7w9cASRGJE XlU= =qhNn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iBcWfOXCM6s58wvHqcsESyTbImya88Ztw-- From nobody Wed Nov 25 18:45:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDA93A0C4F; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:44:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJ3_MXMgFH5O; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BA113A0C11; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0AQ2iiD8019316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Nov 2020 21:44:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:44:44 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Michael Richardson Cc: =?us-ascii?B?PT91dGYtOD9xPz1DMz04OXJpY19WeW5ja2U/PQ==?= , The IESG , openpgp@ietf.org, openpgp-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20201126024444.GT39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160456975729.19433.13353452999589156795@ietfa.amsl.com> <14483.1604596676@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <14483.1604596676@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] =?iso-8859-1?q?=C9ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_chart?= =?iso-8859-1?q?er-ietf-openpgp-02-02=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 02:45:03 -0000 On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 12:17:56PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: > Éric Vyncke via Datatracker wrote: > > 1) is it necessary to include the first four paragraphs about the > > history ? > > I think so. > > > 2) the charter insists on 'no delay' but the previous version of the > > charter is dated 2015... ;-) > > well, that refers to new work, right? The only "delay" in this text is saying that "if you work on stuff other than the core deliverable, it can't delay the core deliverable". So yes, it refers to the "new" (non-core) work, regardless of any absolute delay in the core work. > > 3) is the word 'entertain' the right one in "OpenPGP may be entertained > > by the working group" ? For a non-English speaker, the word 'entertain' > > is about getting fun but there seems to be other meaning > > yes, it's correct. Agreed. I thought about alternatives like "considered" or "adopted" but neither has quite the same connotation. So I left this unchaged, at least for now. > > 5) I do not know about the context, but the last paragraph looks to me > > like requesting a WGLC before adoption. Also, it requires two reviews > > but what will happen if those two reviews are negative ? > > It is odd. > I think though, that the intent is WG is not going to standardize things that don't > have support of a few implementors. Yes; we need to have people looking at it. I also left this unchanged (for now), since if the reviews are negative that will be used as input to any determination of consensus to adopt. Thanks for the review Éric, and the responses Michael, Ben From nobody Wed Nov 25 18:45:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0543A3A0BFD; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:45:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ouu09LFR6pZF; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:45:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC7193A0BFA; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:45:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0AQ2jWWE019463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Nov 2020 21:45:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 18:45:32 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Robert Wilton Cc: The IESG , openpgp@ietf.org, openpgp-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20201126024532.GU39170@kduck.mit.edu> References: <160458247450.18017.13134459554784542832@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <160458247450.18017.13134459554784542832@ietfa.amsl.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-openpgp-02-02: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 02:45:42 -0000 On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 05:21:14AM -0800, Robert Wilton via Datatracker wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Furthermore, the working group will accept no I-D's as working group > > items unless there is a review by at least two un-interested parties of > > the I-D as part of the acceptance process. > > Does this mean that the working group won't adopt any IDs as working group > items unless it has been reviewed by two un-interested parties? If so, perhaps > change accept/acceptance to adopt/adoption? Indeed. Changed in the -02-03. Thanks for spotting it, Ben From nobody Thu Nov 26 01:11:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333B13A0B0A; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 01:11:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=aIragEG2; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=Hxfeonyq Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YIQSNbOrrS1v; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 23:46:08 -0000 A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Security Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2020-12-06. Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Stephen Farrell Daniel Gillmor Assigned Area Director: Benjamin Kaduk Security Area Directors: Benjamin Kaduk Roman Danyliw Mailing list: Address: openpgp@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/openpgp/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/openpgp/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ OpenPGP is an Internet standard that covers object encryption, object signing, and identity certification. These were defined by the first incarnation of the OpenPGP working group. The following is an excerpt from the charter of the original incarnation of the openpgp working group > The goal of the OpenPGP working group is to provide IETF > standards for the algorithms and formats of PGP processed > objects as well as providing the MIME framework for exchanging > them via e-mail or other transport protocols. The working group concluded this work and was closed in March of 2008. In the intervening period, there has been a rough consensus reached that the RFC that defined the IETF openpgp standard, RFC4880, is in need of revision. This incarnation of the working group is chartered to primarily produce a revision of RFC4880 to address issues that have been identified by the community since the working group was originally closed. These revisions will include, but are not necessarily limited to: - Inclusion of elliptic curves recommended by the Crypto Forum Research Group (CFRG) (see note below) - A symmetric encryption mechanism that offers modern message integrity protection (e.g. AEAD) - Revision of mandatory-to-implement algorithm selection and deprecation of weak algorithms - An updated public-key fingerprint mechanism The Working Group will perform the following work: - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880bis draft. - Other work related to OpenPGP may be entertained by the working group as long as it does not interfere with the completion of the RFC4880 revision. As the revision of RFC4880 is the primary goal of the working group, other work may be undertaken, so long as: 1. The work will not unduly delay the closure of the working group after the revision is finished (unless the working group is rechartered). 2. The work has widespread support in the working group. These additional work items may only be added with approval from the responsible Area Director who may additionally require re-chartering for certain work items, as needed. Inclusion of CFRG Curves ----------------------------- The Working Group will consider CFRG curves as possible Mandatory to Implement (MTI) algorithms. Working Group Process -------------------------- The working group will endeavor to complete most if not all of its work online on the working group's mailing list. We expect that the requirement for face-to-face sessions at IETF meetings to be minimal. For the revision of RFC 4880, all changes from RFC 4880, and for other work items, all content, require both consensus on the mailing list and the demonstration of interoperable support by at least two independent implementations, before being submitted to the IESG. Furthermore, the working group will adopt no I-D's as working group items unless there is a review by at least two un-interested parties of the I-D as part of the adoption process. Milestones: Jun 2021 - submit RFC 4880 revision to the IESG From nobody Thu Nov 26 16:06:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2A03A0936 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:06:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4__Veg9syJ1p for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37D383A0930 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5585BE56 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:06:01 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IfKJthDq42Ff for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:05:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 269FBBE55 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:05:59 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1606435559; bh=8UBzv3iyLejAl+anqpvwr+Cb05M4GCFupRrX2mGKHxI=; h=Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=3CMsdd40MVDY8ibJKblpAz+8jZuoR1ekQ9lTWwyQ0T6BlV+asoPtGGluTWPUsZ76k Jwf9o3R+IH1jalUOrrT4ZQpF6Hv2PDeCAFnw0l4YH1Tzcx9bQBxXeyQU/k+BWaiNUF UlRfMt3MIja+fgLPCrn4K71N2uGvZQVV0HN46g7A= References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "openpgp@ietf.org" From: Stephen Farrell X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:05:58 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d3yf3w74DlIx58m4GHwtadPbEdR84hk2I" Archived-At: Subject: [openpgp] Fwd: WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:06:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --d3yf3w74DlIx58m4GHwtadPbEdR84hk2I Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="SltrTMqup7g4GLkGvePU5LUb2WqEEou8B"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "openpgp@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> --SltrTMqup7g4GLkGvePU5LUb2WqEEou8B Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9548FC6A4DD12B72CF3289AC" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9548FC6A4DD12B72CF3289AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Just as a reminder - this is the bureaucracy playing itself out:-) WG charter changes like this are circulated to other SDOs (IEEE, W3C etc) and to the IETF list partly to check the content doesn't overlap with other stuff in a silly manner. It's still entirely fine to comment on the text, but there's no pressing need for participants in the putative WG to do that if it's mostly ok already. Cheers, S. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy = (openpgp) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:46:08 -0800 From: The IESG Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce CC: openpgp@ietf.org A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Security Area. The IESG has not ma= de any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to th= e IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2020-12-06. Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Stephen Farrell Daniel Gillmor Assigned Area Director: Benjamin Kaduk Security Area Directors: Benjamin Kaduk Roman Danyliw Mailing list: Address: openpgp@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/openpgp/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/openpgp/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ OpenPGP is an Internet standard that covers object encryption, object signing, and identity certification. These were defined by the first incarnation of the OpenPGP working group. The following is an excerpt from the charter of the original incarnation of the openpgp working group > The goal of the OpenPGP working group is to provide IETF > standards for the algorithms and formats of PGP processed > objects as well as providing the MIME framework for exchanging > them via e-mail or other transport protocols. The working group concluded this work and was closed in March of 2008. In the intervening period, there has been a rough consensus reached that the RFC that defined the IETF openpgp standard, RFC4880, is in need of revision. This incarnation of the working group is chartered to primarily produce a revision of RFC4880 to address issues that have been identified by the community since the working group was originally closed. These revisions will include, but are not necessarily limited to: - Inclusion of elliptic curves recommended by the Crypto Forum Research Group (CFRG) (see note below) - A symmetric encryption mechanism that offers modern message integrity protection (e.g. AEAD) - Revision of mandatory-to-implement algorithm selection and deprecation of weak algorithms - An updated public-key fingerprint mechanism The Working Group will perform the following work: - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880bis dra= ft. - Other work related to OpenPGP may be entertained by the working group as long as it does not interfere with the completion of the RFC4880 revision. As the revision of RFC4880 is the primary goal of the working group, other work may be undertaken, so long as: 1. The work will not unduly delay the closure of the working group after the revision is finished (unless the working group is rechartered). 2. The work has widespread support in the working group. These additional work items may only be added with approval from the responsible Area Director who may additionally require re-chartering for certain work items, as needed. Inclusion of CFRG Curves ----------------------------- The Working Group will consider CFRG curves as possible Mandatory to Implement (MTI) algorithms. Working Group Process -------------------------- The working group will endeavor to complete most if not all of its work online on the working group's mailing list. We expect that the requirement for face-to-face sessions at IETF meetings to be minimal. For the revision of RFC 4880, all changes from RFC 4880, and for other work items, all content, require both consensus on the mailing list and the demonstration of interoperable support by at least two independent implementations, before being submitted to the IESG. Furthermore, the working group will adopt no I-D's as working group items unless there is a review by at least two un-interested parties of the I-D as part of the adoption process. Milestones: Jun 2021 - submit RFC 4880 revision to the IESG _______________________________________________ openpgp mailing list openpgp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp --------------9548FC6A4DD12B72CF3289AC Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC 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--------------9548FC6A4DD12B72CF3289AC-- --SltrTMqup7g4GLkGvePU5LUb2WqEEou8B-- --d3yf3w74DlIx58m4GHwtadPbEdR84hk2I Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl/AQuYFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+qw sA//QoMjCrUlRbmv0a3hbwpi2G6juwtl7TUt2BdeHs8kRpWIA4/jQaI7wNxRLD2Tdh9Nk1w8bXok Hik1qsbsZLTT0c7S2sZpqNXVhEZsMdheSJB82b3wd7s+xpTru9i/ZuvXTwK/7uDIz9YSnxcXu5lF nCm23SJSsMIHCTsFTJaeE8QYEz5azex+qKadDLKBrdUo0f8LYkbm8Uxt7MpL92HNE7FIYfns1IZN MSGM0gI82iPejZbvRlbDCZBuYRvQM9kR3DRB+H0atMQLjkdsK7WKHHQRz39ZtfHZ8m+5HycmBDd6 kWEDa/WOWgAdsh6SOUwhQOHWOVOgXFpdXzMzfOdh0lIckwRc5uXfB0EcT0rHzOayTB0UVwrlumG0 U1SCYPOYoP9CVD2oow04aBB2YbeaP0K6t3EbjjtHfHIw12Ij0+Cp6Jxb5MC/BBQjrm6gimttjseI N9SgnY7uvzmfK02y09RD3jy5KJ2jw63U847Rt4YGJepWBQ3l/GDD12ZKR52cTNDbVBUdF2m1Hgp7 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([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:b872:b82b:94f2:cd46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l23sm10030706wmh.40.2020.11.26.17.23.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Nov 2020 17:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <991BC406-84A8-4004-9D04-F5F5FD495159@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_28272BDC-17D6-4815-8FB2-BCBBD13A9E5B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 17:23:50 -0800 In-Reply-To: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , openpgp@ietf.org To: IESG References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 01:24:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_28272BDC-17D6-4815-8FB2-BCBBD13A9E5B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii IESG, I support forming this proposed working group. I am a user of PGP and = think updating the specification is a good idea. Bob > On Nov 26, 2020, at 3:46 PM, The IESG wrote: >=20 > A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Security Area. The IESG has not = made > any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and = is > provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to = the > IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2020-12-06. >=20 > Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Current status: Proposed WG >=20 > Chairs: > Stephen Farrell > Daniel Gillmor >=20 > Assigned Area Director: > Benjamin Kaduk >=20 > Security Area Directors: > Benjamin Kaduk > Roman Danyliw >=20 > Mailing list: > Address: openpgp@ietf.org > To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp > Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/openpgp/ >=20 > Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/openpgp/ >=20 > Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-openpgp/ >=20 > OpenPGP is an Internet standard that covers object encryption, object > signing, and identity certification. These were defined by the first > incarnation of the OpenPGP working group. >=20 > The following is an excerpt from the charter of the original = incarnation > of the openpgp working group >=20 >> The goal of the OpenPGP working group is to provide IETF >> standards for the algorithms and formats of PGP processed >> objects as well as providing the MIME framework for exchanging >> them via e-mail or other transport protocols. >=20 > The working group concluded this work and was closed in March of 2008. > In the intervening period, there has been a rough consensus reached = that > the RFC that defined the IETF openpgp standard, RFC4880, is in need of > revision. >=20 > This incarnation of the working group is chartered to primarily = produce > a revision of RFC4880 to address issues that have been identified by = the > community since the working group was originally closed. >=20 > These revisions will include, but are not necessarily limited to: >=20 > - Inclusion of elliptic curves recommended by the Crypto Forum > Research Group (CFRG) (see note below) >=20 > - A symmetric encryption mechanism that offers modern message = integrity > protection (e.g. AEAD) >=20 > - Revision of mandatory-to-implement algorithm selection and = deprecation > of weak algorithms >=20 > - An updated public-key fingerprint mechanism >=20 > The Working Group will perform the following work: >=20 > - Revise RFC4880. The intent is to start from the current rfc4880bis = draft. >=20 > - Other work related to OpenPGP may be entertained by the working = group > as long as it does not interfere with the completion of the RFC4880 > revision. As the revision of RFC4880 is the primary goal of the = working > group, other work may be undertaken, so long as: >=20 > 1. The work will not unduly delay the closure of the working group = after > the revision is finished (unless the working group is rechartered). >=20 > 2. The work has widespread support in the working group. >=20 > These additional work items may only be added with approval from the > responsible Area Director who may additionally require re-chartering > for certain work items, as needed. >=20 > Inclusion of CFRG Curves > ----------------------------- >=20 > The Working Group will consider CFRG curves as possible Mandatory to > Implement (MTI) algorithms. >=20 > Working Group Process > -------------------------- >=20 > The working group will endeavor to complete most if not all of its = work > online on the working group's mailing list. We expect that the > requirement for face-to-face sessions at IETF meetings to be minimal. >=20 > For the revision of RFC 4880, all changes from RFC 4880, and for other > work items, all content, require both consensus on the mailing list = and > the demonstration of interoperable support by at least two independent > implementations, before being submitted to the IESG. >=20 > Furthermore, the working group will adopt no I-D's as working group > items unless there is a review by at least two un-interested parties = of > the I-D as part of the adoption process. >=20 > Milestones: >=20 > Jun 2021 - submit RFC 4880 revision to the IESG >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --Apple-Mail=_28272BDC-17D6-4815-8FB2-BCBBD13A9E5B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl/AVSYACgkQrut0EXfn u6gf1AgArUwTdV88Ce3UrGMlJJnS4Grw+DE/xUfxPFgM1FsxcKfqWz+PO/uSTLpk PO0r8FUv+5AgSF+/GDTz+xLPoEqJ8XVmTym0SNvR8nEBGlwM2D+qCUlWwH7eUpJ5 CE1YmnqVm79Lhq6p9Hc14CsIZvdmU4mS4Rt6v2swyiKG+KWdNhZVLiOvuVdOgSj9 LKmzdDin1K9UNsGAMLxSGS2L3+NZ7CerYb4ru7280KF/UGRZssIUkE6sC8D1oQMf fU2R6dUW6OElNYlwd5DejNPhDK/rT3eoKgFOQ9SgO77Ve4vlXnWLD4Oz/CjMPuTa jWwOJBlhhEkq7qt/bCHgKGQ14JF91A== =HzMH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_28272BDC-17D6-4815-8FB2-BCBBD13A9E5B-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 18:53:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE183A10B7; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 02:53:14 -0000 V2hhdCBpcyBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdGhhdCBmb2xrcyB0aGluayBpdCB3aWxsIHN1Y2NlZWQgdGhpcyB0 aW1lPw0KIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Nov 26 19:27:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1773A0E7C; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:27:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpaYcdml8mXG; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDFFB3A0E7D; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3ACBE64; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:27:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id im4xJdHnJ_Fn; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:27:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C3270BE58; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:27:05 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1606447626; bh=tA/Hz7C8bzoxupTsQC7CcNm9oEtJwyEn67FGBXARLs0=; h=To:Cc:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=wKw+DfH2p87k3mJ5pRwaWJExR1n0T3du7dJKC8bmgOp2xdSbe9PiJWTisJ/dMLiic Um+nMyrbdjNw12v8RR1EQvJilRk738n4IUyOjkNJ7sKYEtaxMBG0TA05/7Lj/U2guY W/AyOBnljWYb/k6CrBYr5LuYLlKuoa/blcYjj4Ao= To: "Salz, Rich" , "iesg@ietf.org" Cc: "openpgp@ietf.org" References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <91dc6665-5576-2113-84b0-cc713b2f1f52@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:27:04 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zT9rwwQHipiBlgrtn8LoPI0qQIwawsqZY" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 03:27:15 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --zT9rwwQHipiBlgrtn8LoPI0qQIwawsqZY Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bPxN4hnnRMa496fcSweXvlt0oxdbR6tLK"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "Salz, Rich" , "iesg@ietf.org" Cc: "openpgp@ietf.org" Message-ID: <91dc6665-5576-2113-84b0-cc713b2f1f52@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> --bPxN4hnnRMa496fcSweXvlt0oxdbR6tLK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D707F1D2BC15FBC226F03496" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D707F1D2BC15FBC226F03496 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rich, On 27/11/2020 02:53, Salz, Rich wrote: > What is different that folks think it will succeed this time? That's a fair question. My substantive reaction is twofold: 1: DKG has done and is willing to do a pile more work on exactly the (limited) topic of the WG, and I don't believe he's alone at all in striving to help folks generate a stable update to our base RFC. So if we can get a sufficient number of other sensible folks concentrated, then it may work. The plan (well, really DKG's fine plan), is to try find a way to enable WG participants to decide the smallish set of non-trivial issues shown up by that analysis on a weekly or bi-weekly schedule until we've collectively decided on success. My minor input is that, based on my respect for PGP implementers and people who've worked on the code and documents for years, is that I think that plan's definitely worth a shot. (None of the above means to discount the work done by editors/implementers since the last official incarnation of the openpgp WG, but I think your question relates more to likely WG success than to history.) 2: I think PGP is an important protocol, that we should document as well as we (the IETF) can, so the fact that a previous iteration of this effort didn't pan out is not a reason to fail to try again. As is true with many things, once you get the timing right, everything else falls into place: - my gut is sufficiently insistent that the time is close enough to maybe-right, that I said yes when asked to co-chair;-) That's not a particularly convincing argument for anyone else of course, but it worked enough for me. So, bottom line: it'll be good if it works, so is very worth trying again. And I hope we can get your fine input to that as we go. Cheers, S. > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp >=20 --------------D707F1D2BC15FBC226F03496 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY 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--zT9rwwQHipiBlgrtn8LoPI0qQIwawsqZY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAl/AcggFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+pV Xg//dHFRcu95HxKZGcQC3AQJCs05iFtP3QFClKKewhOHMoH30VrmWCGt3mDsQN3ozex9WHZsUImK yrX/a8u6A8hhoGu8CO6uapSLKH9e7GRJFHBDtx9Bl+ZQk7+YKZYS5GajrGkn2gmb5FIunS9c8DnD WqyS6fuFhUpixkLctWDTYMg520iMP8X4rNctIdqYeSALwz/+tukLUMJzQaFY2Kd89AMMc0EI2DTe 3zDZCWRbyl2JNXkQUuemx5JxH+hDlr56NXGZ2vRpAub5KZb8XYbNOxN4MiwRoPTmajE3G6BdeXQc cBI890oSyFJy9HGLVh/y3p3UAHgEj8RxsATKroioaBMleO616lb8fWhLB93vhVi0B0fveEXdaEgP ojDjGovTVs/xKfiNyOPFDQ+hBIsfT4Te6GYvU0YQkzsvTpuOlP+7/uaMX8lachubf27mnJI1XS4C VF3HRb7dIIxZhrvXotK8X0PHLqwRYNef/l3cKafe0pC/CZLncMjnDuVL4XNOcVkKCoIT2OO1rIA8 pkFwO1YKprdsnlEWhqnBEFE5I9fmY7yxYLN926nmHqs4FdOle02FWsXrQs9XUMJkT9Kz0Aphnk7b s2KZ/s6iPtJW1J4WyHsx+oCW3eCkdwzQLJs/qpkSUr7iwj04YQBXf1DJGuOyWMkpgoZXs8BmWvPY kII= =Xgjc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zT9rwwQHipiBlgrtn8LoPI0qQIwawsqZY-- From openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com Fri Nov 27 14:23:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EB23A07D1 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:23:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMPOwqpXY4Ig for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.cotse.com (mail.cotse.net [66.203.85.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFC843A07D7 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from out.packetderm.com (out.packetderm.com [66.203.85.62]) by mailhost.cotse.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 0ARMMuVj073215 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:22:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com) Received: from localhost (localhost[127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp (5.7.4/5.7.4) with ESMTPSA id 0ARMMuOg022736 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:22:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com) To: openpgp@ietf.org From: openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:22:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 15:14:50 -0800 Subject: [openpgp] Thunderbird Writing Private Key Pass Phrases to Disk X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:29:06 -0000 This seems so fundamentally wrong I'm having trouble understanding why the developer insists on doing it. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1678655 PGP passwords should not be stored on disk. (Security Issue) ----------------------------- Keeping PGP Private Key Passwords in memory per session is reasonable but saving them for automatic decryption along with account passwords is NOT! There is a big difference in expected privacy and security levels between an account password and a PGP Private Key Password! PGP passwords should not reside on disk anywhere! By rights, they should also be explicitly purged from memory upon exiting Thunderbird. Actual results: Private PGP key automatically accessed without having to enter password after first use. Expected results: PGP Private Key Password should be solicited for manual entry upon every session. PGP Private Key Password should reside only in memory per session. PGP Private Key Password should be explicitly wiped from memory upon Thunderbird exit. PGP passwords should not be stored on disk. (Security Issue) ----------------------------- Using the master password will give you that. (See bug 1662272). Of course, if you really care about what's written to disk, you should not rely on that, but use full disk encryption. Status: UNCONFIRMED → RESOLVED Closed: 1 hour ago Resolution: --- → INVALID ----------------------------- No the master password does NOT "give me that," you are degrading security! OpenPGP already has a strong security mechanism in the form of a Private Key Pass Phrase. Normal use of PGP/GPG/OpenPGP never involves writing that private key pass phrase to disk. Thunderbird's implementation of writing that secret pass phrase to disk is a violation of all defined best practice. Arguing that this violation can be compensated for via additional work arounds such as full disk encryption is specious. Simply stop degrading security! First -- I do not want ALL of my secure email unlocked and exposed everytime I run Thunderbird. Second -- Full disk encryption only provides protection to dead systems. The drive is effectively decrypted while in use and it's contents are subject to the same live access as any other drive. Third -- The Master password groups everything together at the same level. PGP Private keys demand a considerably higher level of security than access to Youtube or Reddit. Fourth -- People have more than one Private Key. Recording all the private key pass phrases together yet again degrades security. Ironically this doesn't require custom code development, Thunderbird already does the proper thing if there is no known private key. Simply remove the extra code that subverts everything by saving the Pass Phrase. Why are you working so hard to do the wrong thing? From nobody Fri Nov 27 17:36:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65BB3A0A49 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:36:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9mm8fsIA_Ur for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73A793A0A42 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CjYxb1mbkzDdh; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 02:36:35 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1606527395; bh=aXEyosWhYaBLGe/xBgIydtSTBtoq7xlks8vzLIdJ5rU=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To; b=VevOtx57f1aXIKLSjZd13sVsvXbEeyjtybhTtafCGHnb0ekuipvnJBF/XFrpq8XRa NlkGLBkhAeLyczroSgNPstrAvurteP2gUGws4nyfQkXdr2zKF2fAba0Qa39vTJqR5z pUY3IYrTdi7SFht2r52QLtH39K+BFEtWYLaSkPRE= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 38ydCrrFYk7x; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 02:36:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [193.110.157.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 02:36:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from [193.110.157.220] (unknown [193.110.157.220]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F3EC56020EC4; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 20:36:31 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Paul Wouters Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 20:36:29 -0500 Message-Id: <2908F40C-5525-4865-8198-429588798536@nohats.ca> References: Cc: openpgp@ietf.org In-Reply-To: To: openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A8395) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] Thunderbird Writing Private Key Pass Phrases to Disk X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:36:43 -0000 On Nov 27, 2020, at 18:15, openpgp@couldbe.nulluser.com wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThis seems so fundamentally wrong I'm having trouble understandin= g why the developer insists on doing it. You seem to have different expectations from a mail client than the thunderb= ird people (and me) > PGP passwords should not be stored on disk. (Security Issue) That was agree on. There should be a one time master password unlock on star= tup and then it should remain n memory (maybe indirectly so the pgp key isn=E2= =80=99t unencrypted into memory all the time) >=20 > ----------------------------- >=20 > Keeping PGP Private Key Passwords in memory per session is reasonable but s= aving them for automatic decryption along with account passwords is NOT! It might be keeping the pin, not the password. At least I think it should do= that. > There is a big difference in expected privacy and security levels between a= n account password and a PGP Private Key Password! That I don=E2=80=99t see because I want my email client to be able to read, index and search all (decrypted) email.=20 > PGP passwords should not reside on disk anywhere! By rights, they should a= lso be explicitly purged from memory upon exiting Thunderbird. Yes. > Actual results: >=20 > Private PGP key automatically accessed without having to enter password af= ter first use. That is required for any usable mail client. > Expected results: >=20 > PGP Private Key Password should be solicited for manual entry upon every s= ession. Then you should maybe not use a mail client. If you can trust the mail clien= t briefly, you might as well trust it while running. > PGP Private Key Password should reside only in memory per session. Yes. > PGP Private Key Password should be explicitly wiped from memory upon Thund= erbird exit. Yes > PGP passwords should not be stored on disk. (Security Issue) Pins can be stored behind a master password. > ----------------------------- >=20 > Using the master password will give you that. (See bug 1662272). > Of course, if you really care about what's written to disk, you should not= rely on that, but use full disk encryption. > Status: UNCONFIRMED =E2=86=92 RESOLVED > Closed: 1 hour ago > Resolution: --- =E2=86=92 INVALID >=20 > ----------------------------- >=20 > No the master password does NOT "give me that," you are degrading security= ! I disagree. Having hundreds of emails encrypted with pgp without being able t= o search them makes the whole email setup useless. So to make it useful, use= full disk encryption and a master password to unlock the pgp passphrase for= new incoming emails or outgoing ones. Keep all emails decrypted. > OpenPGP already has a strong security mechanism in the form of a Private K= ey Pass Phrase. Normal use of PGP/GPG/OpenPGP never involves writing that pr= ivate key pass phrase to disk. Unencrypted I agree. Encrypted by thunderbird is fine to me. > First -- I do not want ALL of my secure email unlocked and exposed everyti= me I run Thunderbird. You want a feature where to read 100 emails you need to type 100 passphrases= ? I don=E2=80=99t think that is a reasonable email client feature. > Second -- Full disk encryption only provides protection to dead systems. T= he drive is effectively decrypted while in use and it's contents are subject= to the same live access as any other drive. Yes, so that you can read, index and search emails. Otherwise you have a gra= phical interface to pgp - which is far from an email client experience. > Third -- The Master password groups everything together at the same level.= PGP Private keys demand a considerably higher level of security than access= to Youtube or Reddit. You seem to mistake thunderbird for Firefox. I believe the master password is as secure as the pgp passphrase method from= a cryptographic point of view. > Fourth -- People have more than one Private Key. Recording all the private= key pass phrases together yet again degrades security. Thunderbird has different profiles. Don=E2=80=99t those have different maste= r passwords? > Ironically this doesn't require custom code development, Thunderbird alrea= dy does the proper thing if there is no known private key. Simply remove the= extra code that subverts everything by saving the Pass Phrase.=20 That=E2=80=99s not what the majority wants for their email client. They want= it to store, index, read and search ALL emails without having to guess betw= een 100 individually encrypted emails and needing to type their passphrase 1= 00 times. I agree the pgp passphrase or pgp private key should not be written to disk e= ver, regardless of full disk encryption. But on your other points I disagree= . Pgp email is already too unusable. If it was usable, we all would be defau= lting to use it already. Even we don=E2=80=99t do that - let alone average e= ndusers. Paul=20 From nobody Fri Nov 27 22:05:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750333A097E; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:05:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vO7jeae2tKjL; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:05:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 295A03A097B; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88040389F5; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:06:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id qLZNzjJXcM7m; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:06:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45C1389CE; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1BD8F; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:05:09 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "Salz\, Rich" cc: "iesg\@ietf.org" , "openpgp\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> References: <160643436808.11589.17889575697881704601@ietfa.amsl.com> <7C0C4B04-A0F5-49A4-8EAB-81402EA6BE18@akamai.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [openpgp] WG Review: Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy (openpgp) X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 06:05:15 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Salz, Rich wrote: > What is different that folks think it will succeed this time? It's unclear to me what "it" refers to, or "this time". It could be the WG, it could be the protocol, it could be that email will be become ubiquitously encrypted/signed. Stephen seems to have answered with "it =3D=3D WG", but it's not clear to m= e that you mean that. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl/B6JUACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVSAAf/XK0VuJnIRrIosl73yy+Xb+KnLAq22jViFmVhp8Z0X1qdGp17dWkBR7J0 bvknkJ0Na/QSqc4Mt8LMtjMC7Tqbpoxta1BeYFV14PRV8YTo/cEjwjGgO40gVtB1 0eHnn96ZGtCalW4AlcdvcqVN4bnmw6NtT1OkjsUv3Byhw4g/pI7qaYaC5Mdq2ohF MbV1duDTalttIfUcIQFg3DY+V0dfIcSJTYO1y6KXETnJDKWW/rG+JKMkp6AZyQT+ yvuxsf7JIbXNDTAEHUkanJN2Kx3YNVM7vpEmyGagwpLXlvd4cHBLiWio75huPfsl fu5HqbATu1eM58gAuAIqjy1eLr740Q== =Wn0+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Nov 28 01:11:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FB43A0AE5 for ; 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