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From: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>
To: "Heidi Ou (hou)" <hou@cisco.com>, Mike McBride <mike.mcbride@ericsson.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:02:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
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Hi Heidi,

      Thanks for your replies. I have also removed the text which is no mor=
e relevant.

       Please see my response with 'Bharat>':

Regards,
Bharat Joshi
http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
________________________________________
From: Heidi Ou (hou) [hou@cisco.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:39 AM
To: Bharat Joshi; Mike McBride; pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03

Hi Bharat,

I trimmed down the text to focus on the ones need more discussion.


>=80 In section 3, I did not get what 'load balancing' are we talking about
>in case of 'first hop routers'?
>
>[heidi] It is referring to the common implementation that when a
>downstream
>[heidi] router has multiple upstream neighbors that are equal cost as
>[heidi] determined by IGP,
>[heidi] it will =B3load balance=B2 the joins when choosing an upstream
>[heidi] neighbor.
>
><Bharat>: I still did not fully get this. Is this for source or a RP?
>Won't there be multiple multicast stream get forwarded to the LAN and
>then assert will choose one forwarder. Why would we want to do this?


"load balancing" for source. When a downstream sends PIM Join towards
Upstream (including FHR), the downstream looks at its unicast RIB. If
There are multiple ECMP path to reach the source, implementation
Usually do load balancing automatically for each RIB lookup. Say if
Downstream has p1,p2, p3, 3 paths to reach S1, it will use p1 for
(S1,G1), p2 for (S1,G2), and P3 for (S1,G3)

Bharat> The text in the draft does not clearly mention that this is specifi=
c for (S,G) and so its kind of confusing.

>
>=80 In section 3, I also did not understand how ECMP helps in this load
>balancing. If there are multiple routers on a LAN in which the source also
>sits, as per PIM, its the DR who is to send the register messages to the
>RP. So I am not sure how ECMP helps here in making other router on this
>LAN to do this instead of the DR?
>
>[heidi] Yes it is the DR that sends the registers.  But the packets are
>[heidi] mostly forwarded natively
>[heidi] down the source trees established by (S,G) joins from downstream
>[heidi] routers.
>
><Bharat>: As mentioned above, I am still not clear about this.


Please See above.

>
>=80 As per RFC 4601, PIM DR is elected for any type of networks so there i=
s
>no need to mention that PIM DR election is done in a multi-access network.
>
>[heidi] I am missing the your point here.
>
><Bharat>: What I was trying to suggest is that this draft does not need
>to mention that a DR election is done in multi-access network. It can
>just refer to RFC 4601.


"multi-access" mentioned here, mainly for describing the scenario the
draft is targeting for.
It would be easy for readers to picture it.

<Bharat>: Ok

>
>=80 In section 4, in sentence "The PIM DR is responsible for sending
>Join/Prune messages to the RP or source.", I think we should mention that
>this is done for the local host's join/leave.
>
>[heidi] That would be redundant. If it is not for local hosts, then it
>[heidi] doesn=B9t matter whether the router is a DR or not on the interfac=
e
>[heidi] from which a PIM Join/Prune is received.
>
><Bharat>: Exactly, a DR router may or may not send PIM join/prune to RP
>because that will depend upon whether DR is the upstream router or not.
>But in case of local joins, DR has the responsibility to do it and hence
>to make the above statement complete, it will be better to add that this
>is for local joins.


Ok, added "local join".

<Bharat>: Ok.

>
>
>=80 In section 4.3, its not clear what will be the contents of first PIM
>hello message of a router coming up? Will it contain LB GDR option or not?
>At that time, it may not know whether its a DR or not. Actually, it will
>assume that its the DR until it receives a hello message from a higher DR
>priority router.
>
>
>[heidi] It depends on the implementation=B9s choice whether it considers
>[heidi] itself as a DR when the interface comes up.
>[heidi] The draft doesn=B9t intend to dictate that choice. IT just specifi=
es
>[heidi] what to send.
>
><Bharat>: But would it create any interoperability issue? If one router
>assumes that it must come in the first PIM message and another does not
>send it in first PIM message.


If a router assume its DR, it should send out the new GDR option.

<Bharat>: Ok.

>=80 In section 6.3, in case of PIM assert, should not we override the
>existing Assert algorithm completely and suggest that the winner should be
>selected based on the currently selected GDR?
>
>[heidi] Could you please elaborate the reasons why 6.3 is insufficient in
>[heidi] this case?
>
><Bharat>: What I was trying to ask is that is there really a need to
>suggest modifications in assert mechanism. Instead, let the assert
>mechanism use the existing algorithm as it is. The only thing we need is
>that we would want to reduce the traffic loss which can be avoided by
>making R1 and R2 not stopping the forwarding.


But we are trying to forward traffic via GDR, and that can't be done by
current Assert algorithm.

<Bharat>: But why you want to dictate that? Won't it be easier to left it t=
o Assert?


><Bharat>: Also, I was just reading the text in this section in version
>03. I think there is a small typo in
><Bharat>: "When R3 comes up online, it is possible that R3 becomes GDR
>for both G1 and G2, hence
><Bharat>: R2 starts to build the forwarding tree for G1 and G2"
><Bharat>: I think it should say "R3 starts to build".

        Corrected. Thanks.

<Bharat>: No problem.

- Heidi



>
>
>On 5/22/14 10:17 PM, "Bharat Joshi" <bharat_joshi@infosys.com> wrote:
>
>>Mike, Authors,
>>
>>       I had sent some questions/suggestions on this draft almost a year
>>back.
>>
>>       Here is the link:
>>http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pim/current/msg02720.html
>>
>>       I am not sure if I missed the response. I am also not sure if
>>these has been addresses in the new revision.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bharat Joshi
>>http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
>>________________________________________
>>From: pim [pim-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mike McBride
>>[mike.mcbride@ericsson.com]
>>Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:40 AM
>>To: pim@ietf.org
>>Subject: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
>>
>>Stig and I feel draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03 is ready for WGLC. The authors
>>have addressed all comments to date. Today starts a two week WGLC, please
>>speak up either way.
>>
>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03.txt
>>
>>thanks,
>>mike
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>pim mailing list
>>pim@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim
>>
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>
>
>
>
>
>On 5/22/14 10:17 PM, "Bharat Joshi" <bharat_joshi@infosys.com> wrote:
>
>>Mike, Authors,
>>
>>       I had sent some questions/suggestions on this draft almost a year
>>back.
>>
>>       Here is the link:
>>http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pim/current/msg02720.html
>>
>>       I am not sure if I missed the response. I am also not sure if
>>these has been addresses in the new revision.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bharat Joshi
>>http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
>>________________________________________
>>From: pim [pim-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mike McBride
>>[mike.mcbride@ericsson.com]
>>Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:40 AM
>>To: pim@ietf.org
>>Subject: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
>>
>>Stig and I feel draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03 is ready for WGLC. The authors
>>have addressed all comments to date. Today starts a two week WGLC, please
>>speak up either way.
>>
>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03.txt
>>
>>thanks,
>>mike
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>pim mailing list
>>pim@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim
>>
>>**************** CAUTION - Disclaimer *****************
>>This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended
>>solely
>>for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient,
>>please
>>notify the sender by e-mail and delete the original message. Further, you
>>are not
>>to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any other
>>person and
>>any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain viruses. Infosys
>>has taken
>>every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, but is not liable for
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>>reserves the
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>>pim@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim
>


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From: "Heidi Ou (hou)" <hou@cisco.com>
To: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>, Mike McBride <mike.mcbride@ericsson.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
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From: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>
To: "Heidi Ou (hou)" <hou@cisco.com>, Mike McBride <mike.mcbride@ericsson.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03
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Hi Heidi,

     Thanks for your response. One reply in line.

Regards,
Bharat Joshi
http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
________________________________________
From: Heidi Ou (hou) [hou@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 10:46 AM
To: Bharat Joshi; Mike McBride; pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] WGLC: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-03

Hi Bharat,

On 6/2/14 1:02 AM, "Bharat Joshi" <bharat_joshi@infosys.com> wrote:


>>=80 In section 3, I did not get what 'load balancing' are we talking ab=
out
>>in case of 'first hop routers'?
>>
>>[heidi] It is referring to the common implementation that when a
>>downstream
>>[heidi] router has multiple upstream neighbors that are equal cost as
>>[heidi] determined by IGP,
>>[heidi] it will =B3load balance=B2 the joins when choosing an upstream
>>[heidi] neighbor.
>>
>><Bharat>: I still did not fully get this. Is this for source or a RP?
>>Won't there be multiple multicast stream get forwarded to the LAN and
>>then assert will choose one forwarder. Why would we want to do this?
>
>
>"load balancing" for source. When a downstream sends PIM Join towards
>Upstream (including FHR), the downstream looks at its unicast RIB. If
>There are multiple ECMP path to reach the source, implementation
>Usually do load balancing automatically for each RIB lookup. Say if
>Downstream has p1,p2, p3, 3 paths to reach S1, it will use p1 for
>(S1,G1), p2 for (S1,G2), and P3 for (S1,G3)
>
>Bharat> The text in the draft does not clearly mention that this is
>specific for (S,G) and so its kind of confusing.


Since this is on FHR, it's normally a source tree. How about

"it will load balance the source tree joins when choosing an upstream
neighbor."

<Bharat>: Ok.

>
>>=80 In section 6.3, in case of PIM assert, should not we override the
>>existing Assert algorithm completely and suggest that the winner should
>>be
>>selected based on the currently selected GDR?
>>
>>[heidi] Could you please elaborate the reasons why 6.3 is insufficient =
in
>>[heidi] this case?
>>
>><Bharat>: What I was trying to ask is that is there really a need to
>>suggest modifications in assert mechanism. Instead, let the assert
>>mechanism use the existing algorithm as it is. The only thing we need i=
s
>>that we would want to reduce the traffic loss which can be avoided by
>>making R1 and R2 not stopping the forwarding.
>
>
>But we are trying to forward traffic via GDR, and that can't be done by
>current Assert algorithm.
>
><Bharat>: But why you want to dictate that? Won't it be easier to left i=
t
>to Assert?
>


Are you suggesting all routers should select GDR as Assert winner?

We can only enforce new rule on routers supporting the draft. For those
don't
Understand GDR, the Assert computation have to be done with existing
algorithm.

<Bharat>: I just re-read this section. Couple of things:

* A small typo in "Using the above example, assume R1 and R3 agree on the=
 new GDR, which  is R3", I think it should be 'assume R1 and R2 agree" he=
re.

* I was trying to avoid changing assert metric. Can we do this? Make R1 a=
nd R2 delete their forwarding state (or leave the local channels) when th=
ey see traffic being received from R3 as well? Then there is no need to c=
hange assert messages at all.

thanks
- Heidi




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From: "Heidi Ou (hou)" <hou@cisco.com>
To: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>, Mike McBride <mike.mcbride@ericsson.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
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From: Pavan Kurapati <kurapati@juniper.net>
To: "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, "l3vpn@ietf.org" <l3vpn@ietf.org>, "mboned@ietf.org" <mboned@ietf.org>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
Thread-Index: AQHPdMjoVUejufJnlk2wny3n96FdGpthZi0A
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 23:04:58 +0000
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References: <537C59CB.2010105@orange.com>
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Cc: "draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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I read the draft and I support its adoption.

Thanks,
Pavan


On 5/21/14 3:46 AM, "Thomas Morin" <thomas.morin@orange.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
>draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group
>item of the l3vpn working group.
>
>Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this
>poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic of
>multicast routing in the global routing table.
>
>Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you support
>adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the reasons).
>
>This poll runs until June 5th.
>
>
>
>*Coincidentally*, we are also polling for knowledge of any IPR that
>applies to this draft, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in
>compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
>and 5378 for more details).
>
>=3D=3D> *If you are listed as a document author or contributor* please
>respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
>relevant IPR.
>
>The draft will not be adopted until a response has been received from
>each author and contributor.
>
>If you are not listed as an author or contributor, then please
>explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet
>been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Martin & Thomas
>l3vpn co-chairs
>
>[1]=20
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
>


From nobody Mon Jun  9 06:39:45 2014
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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 18:05:01 +0330
From: saeed sami <sami.biz.email@gmail.com>
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Subject: [pim] new version submitted draft-sami-pim-ng-04
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------070908060006000501050203
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Hello.
New version of draft-sami-pim-ng with revision number 4 is submitted and 
can be found at :

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sami-pim-ng/
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sami-pim-ng-04.txt

I am looking forward to read the WG group expert's comments on the draft and i hope it
will be able to attract your attention as a potential candidate for adoption by PIM WG.

In this revision only some editing is done and some specifications are added to section
4.6.1.3.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abstract

This document specifies protocol independent multicast- Next generation 
or simply called PIM-NG. like PIM-SM, PIM-NG uses the underlying unicast 
routing information, but unlike PIM-SM it doesn't necessarily need to 
build unidirectional shared trees rooted at a Rendezvous Point (RP) per 
group, due to the fact that the processes through which a source 
registers with the Rendezvous Point and a host finds the source of the 
multicast destination groups it needs are done in a whole new way. So at 
some points PIM-NG works faster than its predecessor. Also the new 
Domain concept, unique to PIM-NG, along the RPF check method used in 
PIM-NG specifications provides many features along a robust and flexible 
control and administration over multicast networks.




--------------070908060006000501050203
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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
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    Hello.<br>
    New version of draft-sami-pim-ng with revision number 4 is submitted
    and can be found at :<br>
    <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sami-pim-ng/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sami-pim-ng/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sami-pim-ng-04.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sami-pim-ng-04.txt</a>

I am looking forward to read the WG group expert's comments on the draft and i hope it
will be able to attract your attention as a potential candidate for adoption by PIM WG.

In this revision only some editing is done and some specifications are added to section
4.6.1.3.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm">Abstract</p>
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      New&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:
Batang;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:
      AR-SA">This document specifies protocol independent multicast-
      Next generation
      or simply called PIM-NG. like PIM-SM, PIM-NG uses the underlying
      unicast
      routing information, but unlike PIM-SM it doesn&#8217;t necessarily need
      to build
      unidirectional shared trees rooted at a Rendezvous Point (RP) per
      group, due to
      the fact that the processes through which a source registers with
      the
      Rendezvous Point and a host finds the source of the multicast
      destination
      groups it needs are done in a whole new way. So at some points
      PIM-NG works
      faster than its predecessor. Also the new Domain concept, unique
      to PIM-NG,
      along the RPF check method used in PIM-NG specifications provides
      many features
      along a robust and flexible control and administration over
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--------------070908060006000501050203--


From nobody Mon Jun  9 10:20:49 2014
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From: "Dolganow, Andrew (Andrew)" <andrew.dolganow@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Pavan Kurapati <kurapati@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
Thread-Index: AQHPdMjoVUejufJnlk2wny3n96FdGpthZi0AgAe+dCQ=
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 17:20:24 +0000
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References: <537C59CB.2010105@orange.com>, <CFB51E36.6219F%kurapati@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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Support

Thanks,
Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:05 AM, "Pavan Kurapati" <kurapati@juniper.net> wrote=
:
>=20
> I read the draft and I support its adoption.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Pavan
>=20
>=20
>> On 5/21/14 3:46 AM, "Thomas Morin" <thomas.morin@orange.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hello,
>>=20
>> This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
>> draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group
>> item of the l3vpn working group.
>>=20
>> Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this
>> poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic of
>> multicast routing in the global routing table.
>>=20
>> Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you support
>> adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the reasons).
>>=20
>> This poll runs until June 5th.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> *Coincidentally*, we are also polling for knowledge of any IPR that
>> applies to this draft, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in
>> compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
>> and 5378 for more details).
>>=20
>> =3D=3D> *If you are listed as a document author or contributor* please
>> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
>> relevant IPR.
>>=20
>> The draft will not be adopted until a response has been received from
>> each author and contributor.
>>=20
>> If you are not listed as an author or contributor, then please
>> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet
>> been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>=20
>> Thank you,
>>=20
>> Martin & Thomas
>> l3vpn co-chairs
>>=20
>> [1]=20
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
>=20


From nobody Mon Jun  9 10:23:56 2014
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From: Poorna Pushkala B <poorna@juniper.net>
To: "Dolganow, Andrew (Andrew)" <andrew.dolganow@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Pavan Kurapati" <kurapati@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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I support the draft's adoption.

Regards
Poorna

On 6/9/14 1:20 PM, "Dolganow, Andrew (Andrew)"
<andrew.dolganow@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

>Support
>
>Thanks,
>Andrew
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:05 AM, "Pavan Kurapati" <kurapati@juniper.net>
>>wrote:
>>=20
>> I read the draft and I support its adoption.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Pavan
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 5/21/14 3:46 AM, "Thomas Morin" <thomas.morin@orange.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hello,
>>>=20
>>> This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
>>> draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group
>>> item of the l3vpn working group.
>>>=20
>>> Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this
>>> poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic of
>>> multicast routing in the global routing table.
>>>=20
>>> Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you support
>>> adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the reasons).
>>>=20
>>> This poll runs until June 5th.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> *Coincidentally*, we are also polling for knowledge of any IPR that
>>> applies to this draft, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in
>>> compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
>>> and 5378 for more details).
>>>=20
>>> =3D=3D> *If you are listed as a document author or contributor* please
>>> respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any
>>> relevant IPR.
>>>=20
>>> The draft will not be adopted until a response has been received from
>>> each author and contributor.
>>>=20
>>> If you are not listed as an author or contributor, then please
>>> explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet
>>> been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>>=20
>>> Thank you,
>>>=20
>>> Martin & Thomas
>>> l3vpn co-chairs
>>>=20
>>> [1]=20
>>>=20
>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
>>=20
>


From nobody Wed Jun 11 13:52:10 2014
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From: "Karthik Subramanian (kartsubr)" <kartsubr@cisco.com>
To: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>, "l3vpn@ietf.org" <l3vpn@ietf.org>,  "mboned@ietf.org" <mboned@ietf.org>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 03:18:32 +0000
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Cc: "draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org" <draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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From nobody Wed Jun 11 13:52:11 2014
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 09:46:19AM +0200, Thomas Morin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
> draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group
> item of the l3vpn working group.
> 
> Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this
> poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic
> of multicast routing in the global routing table.
> 
> Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you
> support adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the
> reasons).
> 
> This poll runs until June 5th.

As usual, I'm chiming in late.  

I support the adoption of this draft.

-- Jeff


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Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org, MBONED <mboned-bounces@ietf.org>, mboned@ietf.org, draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org, Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>, pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] [MBONED] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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support +1

"MBONED" <mboned-bounces@ietf.org>  2014-06-09 22:16:06:

> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 09:46:19AM +0200, Thomas Morin wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
> > draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group
> > item of the l3vpn working group.
> > 
> > Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this
> > poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic
> > of multicast routing in the global routing table.
> > 
> > Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you
> > support adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the
> > reasons).
> > 
> > This poll runs until June 5th.
> 
> As usual, I'm chiming in late. 
> 
> I support the adoption of this draft.
> 
> -- Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MBONED mailing list
> MBONED@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned

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<br><tt><font size=2>support </font></tt><font size=2 face="sans-serif">+1</font>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>&quot;MBONED&quot; &lt;mboned-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
&nbsp;2014-06-09 22:16:06:<br>
<br>
&gt; On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 09:46:19AM +0200, Thomas Morin wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; Hello,<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; This email starts a two-week poll on adopting<br>
&gt; &gt; draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working
group<br>
&gt; &gt; item of the l3vpn working group.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included
in this<br>
&gt; &gt; poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this
topic<br>
&gt; &gt; of multicast routing in the global routing table.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you<br>
&gt; &gt; support adoption or not (in the later case, please also state
the<br>
&gt; &gt; reasons).<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; This poll runs until June 5th.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; As usual, I'm chiming in late. &nbsp;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I support the adoption of this draft.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -- Jeff<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; MBONED mailing list<br>
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&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned<br>
</font></tt>
--=_alternative 004F4A2648257CF2_=--


From nobody Wed Jun 11 13:52:13 2014
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From: Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>
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Cc: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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I support the adoption of this draft.
And I'm not aware of any relevant IPR.=20

-- Shunwan Zhuang


-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Thomas Morin
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 =
15:46
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: l3vpn@ietf.org; mboned@ietf.org; =
pim@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: =
draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast@tools.ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Poll for adoption: =
draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04

Hello,

This email starts a two-week poll on adopting
draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04 [1] as a working group=20
item of the l3vpn working group.

Note well that the mboned and pim working group are included in this=20
poll, to facilitate feedback from these working groups on this topic of=20
multicast routing in the global routing table.

Please send comments to the l3vpn mailing-list and state if you support=20
adoption or not (in the later case, please also state the reasons).

This poll runs until June 5th.



*Coincidentally*, we are also polling for knowledge of any IPR that
applies to this draft, to ensure that IPR has been disclosed in
compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669
and 5378 for more details).

=3D=3D> *If you are listed as a document author or contributor* please
respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any=20
relevant IPR.

The draft will not be adopted until a response has been received from
each author and contributor.

If you are not listed as an author or contributor, then please=20
explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet=20
been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

Thank you,

Martin & Thomas
l3vpn co-chairs

[1] =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04


From nobody Wed Jun 11 23:34:50 2014
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Protocol Independent Multicast Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : PIM Designated Router Load Balancing
        Authors         : Yiqun Cai
                          Sri Vallepalli
                          Heidi Ou
                          Andy Green
	Filename        : draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2014-06-11

Abstract:
   On a multi-access network, one of the PIM routers is elected as a
   Designated Router (DR).  On the last hop network, the PIM DR is
   responsible for tracking local multicast listeners and forwarding
   traffic to these listeners if the group is operating in PIM-SM.  In
   this document, we propose a modification to the PIM-SM protocol that
   allows more than one of these last hop routers to be selected so that
   the forwarding load can be distributed among these routers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pim-drlb/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
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pim WG:

Hi!

Please be aware that draft-ietf-rtgwg-mofrr has gone through WGLC in rtgwg.=
  Because of this WG's multicast experience, we would be grateful to receiv=
e any comments.  We are waiting for IPR confirmation from the authors, so w=
e still have a short window.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

--_000_CFC0E3E05B06Aaretanaciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>pim WG:</div>
<br>
<div>Hi!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please be aware that&nbsp;draft-ietf-rtgwg-mofrr has gone through WGLC=
 in rtgwg. &nbsp;Because of this WG's multicast experience, we would be gra=
teful to receive any comments. &nbsp;We are waiting for IPR confirmation fr=
om the authors, so we still have a short window.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alvaro.</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CFC0E3E05B06Aaretanaciscocom_--


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Hi

The last version addresses my comments. So looks good to me from my
point of view (as a participant). Do you have any remaining issues
Bharat?

The only issue I can find, is that it says
"Last hop routers with the new DRLBC Option advertised in its Hello"
twice. Shouldn't it be "their"?

Anyway, this is something the RFC Editor can consider.

Stig


From nobody Sun Jun 15 21:53:21 2014
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From: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>
To: Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt
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Stig,

        I do not have any more comments on this. Thanks to authors for ta=
king care of my last set of comments.

Regards,
Bharat Joshi
http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
________________________________________
From: pim [pim-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Stig Venaas [stig@venaas.co=
m]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:18 AM
To: pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt

Hi

The last version addresses my comments. So looks good to me from my
point of view (as a participant). Do you have any remaining issues
Bharat?

The only issue I can find, is that it says
"Last hop routers with the new DRLBC Option advertised in its Hello"
twice. Shouldn't it be "their"?

Anyway, this is something the RFC Editor can consider.

Stig

_______________________________________________
pim mailing list
pim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim

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Subject: Re: [pim] AD review of draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector
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--001a1136bfce395f8804fc36c6fc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Have you had a chance to respond to my review?  It's getting very tight to
even think about getting this progressed before the July IETF.
The last IESG telechat before next IETF is July 10 - and we need to allow
at least 2 weeks for IETF last call.

Thanks,
Alia


On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Javed,
>
> Yes - I'm sorry for the delay (travel & sick).
> If you and others can respond to my comments quickly, I can get this
> into IETF Last Call before
> Thurs so it will make the telechat after this one.
>
> Comments from review:
>
> Sec 10:  If the RPF vector isn't understood, isn't the path taken by
> the traffic not going to conform to that desire?  I agree that the
> possibility for loops is bad if the explicit RPF vector remained - but
> I am also concerned that there's no way to tell that the desired path
> wasn't taken - in terms of errors reported or so on.   I don't see a
> protocol based way of forcing an error to be returned or capability
> checking - so I'm expecting to see a small paragraph that talks about
> the requirement in terms of manageability for computing the explicit
> path and perhaps using mtrace to verify.   If you have a better
> suggestion, I would love to see it.
>
> I do feel that this mechanism is under-specified in the context of how
> it is to be used.  For example, is make-before-break important?  What
> about knowing that the new path is fully created before modifying the
> other one for live-live?  How is any of this coordinated if there are
> multiple leaf-nodes independently determining the explicit RPF vector
> to use?  I do see Sec 7 discussing how to handle conflicts - but I
> don't see any consideration of the dynamics of that solution or why it
> is a good choice (beyond being a choice and in RFC 5384).
>
> Nits:
> Figure 1 - the figure is not properly aligned
>
> Regards,
> Alia
>
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Javed Asghar <jasghar@cisco.com> wrote:
> > Hi Alia,
> >
> > Did you get a chance to review? Its been awhile.
> > If its ok, we'd like to move it forward.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Javed.
> >
> >
> > On 4/3/2014 3:11 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for updating the draft.  I will review it very soon so we can get
> it
> > moving along.
> >
> > Alia
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands <ice@cisco.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks Adrian,
> >>
> >> > Forwarded to Alia who now has the joy of being your AD.
> >> >
> >> > From me, just to note that you cannot demand a code point from IANA,
> you
> >> > can only request one. The way to do it is to use the TBD form of the
> text I
> >> > suggested and then say. "It is requested that IANA assign the value
> 4."
> >>
> >> We'll change it to say 'requested'.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Note for future reference that if you feel an attachment for a
> specific
> >> > code point you really, really need to apply for an early allocation
> (RFC
> >> > 7120) because someone else might come along in the intervening time
> and use
> >> > your value for something else.
> >>
> >> Yes, we know about that. I remember discussing it with Stig at one
> point,
> >> but since this was the only draft in the queue to request such value I
> think
> >> the conclusion was that its not necessary to do early allocation, but
> your
> >> right, we should really always do that to be safe.
> >>
> >> Thx,
> >>
> >> Ice.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Adrian
> >> >
> >> > From: Javed Asghar [mailto:jasghar@cisco.com]
> >> > Sent: 02 April 2014 09:26
> >> > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector
> >> > Subject: Re: AD review of draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Submitted updated draft:
> >> >
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector-04.txt
> >> > Please see comments inline below.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > -Javed.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 1/26/2014 3:22 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I have done my usual AD review of this document after receiving the
> >> > publication request. The purpose of the review is to catch and fix
> >> > any issues that might otherwise show up in IETF last call or IESG
> >> > review. This helps smooth the passage of the document later and also
> >> > increases the quality text.
> >> >
> >> > This seems like a good and simple proposal, and I don't want to bog
> >> > it down. But there are a number of small editorial issues and a
> >> > couple of technical questions included below.
> >> >
> >> > I have put the document into "Revised I-D Needed" state and will
> >> > wait to see an updated version before I start the IETF last call.
> >> > But please feel free to debate any of these points with me.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for the work.
> >> >
> >> > Adrian
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > You need to fix the idnits before I can put this to IETF last call.
> >> >
> >> > - Missing page breaks
> >> > - 2119 boilerplate broken (you have "SHALL" "NOT")
> >> > - there is a line too long
> >> > - missing reference for [draft-mofrr-karan]
> >> >
> >> > [Shepherd - Your write-up says no nits found. How come?]
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Conventionally we have used the term "strict" in counterpoint to
> >> > "loose" to describe hops, and termed the whole path "explicit". I
> >> > don't suppose this matters: you are defining your own terms for a
> >> > new application in PIM.
> >> >
> >> > However, this has led to some confusion in the text because of the
> >> > normal use of the English word "explicit". For example, the Abstract
> >> > says:
> >> >    This document defines a new Reverse Path Forwarding (RPF) Vector
> >> >    TLV to build multicast trees via an explicit path sent in the PIM
> >> >    join.
> >> > ...which doesn't give any clue to the distinction between this work
> >> > and RFC 5496. You might be better with something like:
> >> >    The PIM Reverse Path Forwarding (RPF) Vector TLV defined in RFC
> 5496
> >> >    can be included in a PIM Join Attribute to allow a leaf to apply
> >> >    controls to the path of a multicast tree. This document defines a
> >> >    new Vector Attribute type so that an RPF Vector TLV can be used to
> >> >    indicate that the unicast address indicated in the TLV must be used
> >> >    as the next hop in the multicast tree.
> >> >
> >> > This kind of language could usefully be repeated throughout the
> >> > document.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Section 1
> >> >
> >> >    For some applications, it might be useful to have a way to specify
> >> >    the explicit path along which the PIM join is propagated.
> >> >
> >> > Could you possibly be a little less vague? :-)
> >> > If this is the level of certainty you have for the utility of your
> work
> >> > then it shouldn't be on the Standards Track. Fortunately, you *do*
> have
> >> > a good use case later in the document.
> >> >
> >> > I suggest re-ordering paragraphs:
> >> >
> >> > 3, 4, 2
> >> >
> >> > ...and delete paragraph 1.
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Suggest to rename Section 3 "Motivation"
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Section 3
> >> >
> >> > As noted above, you need to provide the reference for
> >> > [draft-mofrr-karan]. But actually, I wonder whether you really need to
> >> > include the citation as the text in the paragraph seems to hold up
> well
> >> > without any further explanation.
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Section 3
> >> >
> >> >    It might be useful to have a way to specify the explicit path
> >> >    along which the PIM join is propagated.
> >> >
> >> > I think you established that it *is* useful in the previous text.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Corrected.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Section 3
> >> >
> >> >    How the Explicit RPF Vector list is determined is outside the
> >> >    scope of this document. It may either be manually configured by
> >> >    the network operator or procedures may be implemented on the
> >> >    egress router to dynamically calculate the vector list based on
> >> >    a link state database protocol, like OSPF or IS-IS.
> >> >
> >> > I agree that this should be out of scope and you should say so.
> >> > However, having said it is out of scope, why do you go on to
> >> > discuss it?
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Ack. This is implementation specific. We have changed this
> >> > discussion as example. This was feedback from previous reviews.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > You should give more clarity as to why an RPF list using 5496 list
> >> > entries would not be good enough. In Figure 1 it would appear that the
> >> > list {R4, R3, R6, R5, R2, R1} would work just fine using 5496.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Added more clarity with a comparison between Explicit RPF Vector
> >> > and RFC5496 procedures.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Section 5
> >> >
> >> >    This draft uses PIM join attribute type 4 for specifying an
> Explicit
> >> >    RPF Vector.
> >> >
> >> > Please make this:
> >> >
> >> >    This draft uses PIM join attribute type TBD by IANA for specifying
> an
> >> >    Explicit RPF Vector.
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Section 7 is describing, for example, simple network with source S and
> >> > leafs R1 and R2...
> >> >
> >> >   A   R1
> >> >  / \ /
> >> > S   C
> >> >  \ / \
> >> >   B   R2
> >> >
> >> > ...where R1 sends explicit RPF TLVs {C, A} and that path is set up.
> >> > Then R2 sends explicit RPF TLVs {C, B}.
> >> >
> >> > Section 3.3.3 of RFC 5384 is cited as the tie-breaker.
> >> > This is OK, but it appears to say that the Explicit RPF is not
> >> > mandatory. It would be nice to make it very clear that a receiver has
> >> > no expectations that the explicit RPF list it supplies will actually
> be
> >> > used.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> There is no change in our draft with respect to this behavior
> and
> >> > its documented well in RFC 5384 section 3.3.3. Adding more text could
> >> > confuse the reader. We felt the current text is sufficient. Let us
> know if
> >> > this is ok with you.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Section 10
> >> >
> >> > This is important material to include, but I think it needs some work.
> >> >
> >> >    The F bit MUST be set to 0 by a downstream router in the join that
> >> >    is sent to the upstream router that does not support Explicit RPF
> >> >    vector.
> >> >
> >> > But the downstream router doesn't know whether the upstream router
> >> > supports the new vector or not! So I think you need...
> >> >
> >> >    The F bit MUST be set to 0 in all Explicit RPF vectors in case the
> >> >    upstream router receiving the join does not support the TLV. As
> >> >    described in section 3.3.2 of [RFC5384], routers that do not
> >> >    understand the type of a particular attribute that has the F bit
> >> >    clear will discard it and continue to process the join.
> >> >
> >> >    This processing is particularly important when the routers that
> >> >    do not support the Explicit RPF TLV are identified as hops in the
> >> >    explicit RPF list, because failing to remove the RPF vectors could
> >> >    cause upstream routers to send the join back toward these routers
> >> >    causing loops.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated. Thanks for the clarity. Its very precise.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > However, this doesn't seem to be the only way that loops can be caused
> >> > (referring back to section 9).
> >> > I don't see this mentioned in RFC 5496 either, but surely:
> >> > - the RPF list could contain an explicit loop
> >> > - the use of loose hops with poorly ordered list entries could create
> a
> >> >   loop
> >> >
> >> > It is fine to note that this is caught by normal PIM processing, but
> >> > you should say so, and you should say what happens to the join. It
> >> > seems to me that 3.3.4 of 5496 only catches the case where join is
> >> > targeting the same upstream neighbor. But the sequential list nature
> >> > of the RPF list means that the loop might not be "endless" but could
> >> > still be a loop. How is this caught and handled?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Please note that the explicit or loose RPF vector list at every
> >> > hop will consume the RPF vector entry. If an explicit or loose RPF
> vector
> >> > list is constructed poorly (eg. mis-config) the processing of the RPF
> vector
> >> > is still as described in RFC 5496 and doesn't need to change. We need
> to fix
> >> > the user error.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > Section 11
> >> >
> >> > Please replace...
> >> >
> >> > OLD
> >> >    Type
> >> >    ----
> >> >    The Vector Attribute type is 4.
> >> > NEW
> >> >    Type
> >> >    ----
> >> >    The Vector Attribute type is TBD by IANA.
> >> > END
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> We would like to request type 4 attribute from IANA explicitly.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Section 13 seems light!
> >> >
> >> > The RPF list (and especially the explicit RPF) provides a way to
> >> > cause traffic to take different routes through the network. This
> >> > could be used to cause traffic to take expensive paths, to be
> >> > routed through hot parts of the network, or to be directed to
> >> > snooping nodes.
> >> >
> >> > This means that the existence of the RPF TLV makes the use of
> >> > security in PIM more important to prevent tampering with the RPF
> >> > list.
> >> > JA>>> Good point.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > But it also raises a question of policy and authorization. Clearly,
> >> > when a receiver seeks to join a multicast tree, it must be
> >> > authenticated for that join. But additionally, you may want to note
> >> > that the inclusion of an RPF list by a receiver should be subject to
> >> > policy.
> >> >
> >> > JA>>> Updated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > .
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pim mailing list
> >> pim@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim
> >
> >
> >
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Have you had a chance to respond to my review? =C2=A0It&#3=
9;s getting very tight to even think about getting this progressed before t=
he July IETF.<div>The last IESG telechat before next IETF is July 10 - and =
we need to allow at least 2 weeks for IETF last call.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Alia</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:06 PM, A=
lia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Javed,<br>
<br>
Yes - I&#39;m sorry for the delay (travel &amp; sick).<br>
If you and others can respond to my comments quickly, I can get this<br>
into IETF Last Call before<br>
Thurs so it will make the telechat after this one.<br>
<br>
Comments from review:<br>
<br>
Sec 10: =C2=A0If the RPF vector isn&#39;t understood, isn&#39;t the path ta=
ken by<br>
the traffic not going to conform to that desire? =C2=A0I agree that the<br>
possibility for loops is bad if the explicit RPF vector remained - but<br>
I am also concerned that there&#39;s no way to tell that the desired path<b=
r>
wasn&#39;t taken - in terms of errors reported or so on. =C2=A0 I don&#39;t=
 see a<br>
protocol based way of forcing an error to be returned or capability<br>
checking - so I&#39;m expecting to see a small paragraph that talks about<b=
r>
the requirement in terms of manageability for computing the explicit<br>
path and perhaps using mtrace to verify. =C2=A0 If you have a better<br>
suggestion, I would love to see it.<br>
<br>
I do feel that this mechanism is under-specified in the context of how<br>
it is to be used. =C2=A0For example, is make-before-break important? =C2=A0=
What<br>
about knowing that the new path is fully created before modifying the<br>
other one for live-live? =C2=A0How is any of this coordinated if there are<=
br>
multiple leaf-nodes independently determining the explicit RPF vector<br>
to use? =C2=A0I do see Sec 7 discussing how to handle conflicts - but I<br>
don&#39;t see any consideration of the dynamics of that solution or why it<=
br>
is a good choice (beyond being a choice and in RFC 5384).<br>
<br>
Nits:<br>
Figure 1 - the figure is not properly aligned<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Alia<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Javed Asghar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jasghar=
@cisco.com">jasghar@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Alia,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Did you get a chance to review? Its been awhile.<br>
&gt; If its ok, we&#39;d like to move it forward.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; -Javed.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 4/3/2014 3:11 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks for updating the draft. =C2=A0I will review it very soon so we =
can get it<br>
&gt; moving along.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alia<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ice@cisco.com">ice@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks Adrian,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Forwarded to Alia who now has the joy of being your AD.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; From me, just to note that you cannot demand a code point fro=
m IANA, you<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; can only request one. The way to do it is to use the TBD form=
 of the text I<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; suggested and then say. &quot;It is requested that IANA assig=
n the value 4.&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; We&#39;ll change it to say &#39;requested&#39;.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Note for future reference that if you feel an attachment for =
a specific<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; code point you really, really need to apply for an early allo=
cation (RFC<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; 7120) because someone else might come along in the intervenin=
g time and use<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; your value for something else.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Yes, we know about that. I remember discussing it with Stig at one=
 point,<br>
&gt;&gt; but since this was the only draft in the queue to request such val=
ue I think<br>
&gt;&gt; the conclusion was that its not necessary to do early allocation, =
but your<br>
&gt;&gt; right, we should really always do that to be safe.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thx,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Ice.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Adrian<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; From: Javed Asghar [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jasghar@cisco.co=
m">jasghar@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Sent: 02 April 2014 09:26<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.u=
k</a>; draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: AD review of draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Hi,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Submitted updated draft:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pim=
-explicit-rpf-vector-04.txt" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet=
-drafts/draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector-04.txt</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Please see comments inline below.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; -Javed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; On 1/26/2014 3:22 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Hi,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I have done my usual AD review of this document after receivi=
ng the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; publication request. The purpose of the review is to catch an=
d fix<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; any issues that might otherwise show up in IETF last call or =
IESG<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; review. This helps smooth the passage of the document later a=
nd also<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; increases the quality text.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; This seems like a good and simple proposal, and I don&#39;t w=
ant to bog<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; it down. But there are a number of small editorial issues and=
 a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; couple of technical questions included below.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I have put the document into &quot;Revised I-D Needed&quot; s=
tate and will<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; wait to see an updated version before I start the IETF last c=
all.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; But please feel free to debate any of these points with me.<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Thanks for the work.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Adrian<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; You need to fix the idnits before I can put this to IETF last=
 call.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - Missing page breaks<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - 2119 boilerplate broken (you have &quot;SHALL&quot; &quot;N=
OT&quot;)<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - there is a line too long<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - missing reference for [draft-mofrr-karan]<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; [Shepherd - Your write-up says no nits found. How come?]<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Conventionally we have used the term &quot;strict&quot; in co=
unterpoint to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; &quot;loose&quot; to describe hops, and termed the whole path=
 &quot;explicit&quot;. I<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; don&#39;t suppose this matters: you are defining your own ter=
ms for a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; new application in PIM.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; However, this has led to some confusion in the text because o=
f the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; normal use of the English word &quot;explicit&quot;. For exam=
ple, the Abstract<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; says:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a new Reverse Path Forward=
ing (RPF) Vector<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0TLV to build multicast trees via an explicit pat=
h sent in the PIM<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0join.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ...which doesn&#39;t give any clue to the distinction between=
 this work<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; and RFC 5496. You might be better with something like:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The PIM Reverse Path Forwarding (RPF) Vector TLV=
 defined in RFC 5496<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0can be included in a PIM Join Attribute to allow=
 a leaf to apply<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0controls to the path of a multicast tree. This d=
ocument defines a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0new Vector Attribute type so that an RPF Vector =
TLV can be used to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate that the unicast address indicated in t=
he TLV must be used<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0as the next hop in the multicast tree.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; This kind of language could usefully be repeated throughout t=
he<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; document.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 1<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0For some applications, it might be useful to hav=
e a way to specify<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0the explicit path along which the PIM join is pr=
opagated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Could you possibly be a little less vague? :-)<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; If this is the level of certainty you have for the utility of=
 your work<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; then it shouldn&#39;t be on the Standards Track. Fortunately,=
 you *do* have<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; a good use case later in the document.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I suggest re-ordering paragraphs:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; 3, 4, 2<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ...and delete paragraph 1.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Suggest to rename Section 3 &quot;Motivation&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 3<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; As noted above, you need to provide the reference for<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; [draft-mofrr-karan]. But actually, I wonder whether you reall=
y need to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; include the citation as the text in the paragraph seems to ho=
ld up well<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; without any further explanation.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 3<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0It might be useful to have a way to specify the =
explicit path<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0along which the PIM join is propagated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I think you established that it *is* useful in the previous t=
ext.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Corrected.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 3<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0How the Explicit RPF Vector list is determined i=
s outside the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0scope of this document. It may either be manuall=
y configured by<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0the network operator or procedures may be implem=
ented on the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0egress router to dynamically calculate the vecto=
r list based on<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0a link state database protocol, like OSPF or IS-=
IS.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I agree that this should be out of scope and you should say s=
o.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; However, having said it is out of scope, why do you go on to<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; discuss it?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Ack. This is implementation specific. We have =
changed this<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; discussion as example. This was feedback from previous review=
s.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; You should give more clarity as to why an RPF list using 5496=
 list<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; entries would not be good enough. In Figure 1 it would appear=
 that the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; list {R4, R3, R6, R5, R2, R1} would work just fine using 5496=
.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Added more clarity with a comparison between E=
xplicit RPF Vector<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; and RFC5496 procedures.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 5<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft uses PIM join attribute type 4 for sp=
ecifying an Explicit<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0RPF Vector.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Please make this:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft uses PIM join attribute type TBD by I=
ANA for specifying an<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0Explicit RPF Vector.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 7 is describing, for example, simple network with sou=
rce S and<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; leafs R1 and R2...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 A =C2=A0 R1<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0/ \ /<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; S =C2=A0 C<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0\ / \<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 B =C2=A0 R2<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ...where R1 sends explicit RPF TLVs {C, A} and that path is s=
et up.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Then R2 sends explicit RPF TLVs {C, B}.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 3.3.3 of RFC 5384 is cited as the tie-breaker.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; This is OK, but it appears to say that the Explicit RPF is no=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; mandatory. It would be nice to make it very clear that a rece=
iver has<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; no expectations that the explicit RPF list it supplies will a=
ctually be<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; used.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; There is no change in our draft with respect t=
o this behavior and<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; its documented well in RFC 5384 section 3.3.3. Adding more te=
xt could<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; confuse the reader. We felt the current text is sufficient. L=
et us know if<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; this is ok with you.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 10<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; This is important material to include, but I think it needs s=
ome work.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The F bit MUST be set to 0 by a downstream route=
r in the join that<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0is sent to the upstream router that does not sup=
port Explicit RPF<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0vector.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; But the downstream router doesn&#39;t know whether the upstre=
am router<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; supports the new vector or not! So I think you need...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The F bit MUST be set to 0 in all Explicit RPF v=
ectors in case the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0upstream router receiving the join does not supp=
ort the TLV. As<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0described in section 3.3.2 of [RFC5384], routers=
 that do not<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0understand the type of a particular attribute th=
at has the F bit<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0clear will discard it and continue to process th=
e join.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0This processing is particularly important when t=
he routers that<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0do not support the Explicit RPF TLV are identifi=
ed as hops in the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicit RPF list, because failing to remove the=
 RPF vectors could<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0cause upstream routers to send the join back tow=
ard these routers<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0causing loops.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated. Thanks for the clarity. Its very prec=
ise.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; However, this doesn&#39;t seem to be the only way that loops =
can be caused<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; (referring back to section 9).<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I don&#39;t see this mentioned in RFC 5496 either, but surely=
:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - the RPF list could contain an explicit loop<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; - the use of loose hops with poorly ordered list entries coul=
d create a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 loop<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; It is fine to note that this is caught by normal PIM processi=
ng, but<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; you should say so, and you should say what happens to the joi=
n. It<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; seems to me that 3.3.4 of 5496 only catches the case where jo=
in is<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; targeting the same upstream neighbor. But the sequential list=
 nature<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; of the RPF list means that the loop might not be &quot;endles=
s&quot; but could<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; still be a loop. How is this caught and handled?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Please note that the explicit or loose RPF vec=
tor list at every<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; hop will consume the RPF vector entry. If an explicit or loos=
e RPF vector<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; list is constructed poorly (eg. mis-config) the processing of=
 the RPF vector<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; is still as described in RFC 5496 and doesn&#39;t need to cha=
nge. We need to fix<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; the user error.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 11<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Please replace...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; OLD<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0----<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Vector Attribute type is 4.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; NEW<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0----<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Vector Attribute type is TBD by IANA.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; END<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; ---<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; We would like to request type 4 attribute from=
 IANA explicitly.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Section 13 seems light!<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; The RPF list (and especially the explicit RPF) provides a way=
 to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; cause traffic to take different routes through the network. T=
his<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; could be used to cause traffic to take expensive paths, to be=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; routed through hot parts of the network, or to be directed to=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; snooping nodes.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; This means that the existence of the RPF TLV makes the use of=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; security in PIM more important to prevent tampering with the =
RPF<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; list.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Good point.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; But it also raises a question of policy and authorization. Cl=
early,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; when a receiver seeks to join a multicast tree, it must be<br=
>
&gt;&gt; &gt; authenticated for that join. But additionally, you may want t=
o note<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; that the inclusion of an RPF list by a receiver should be sub=
ject to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; policy.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; JA&gt;&gt;&gt; Updated.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; .<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; pim mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:pim@ietf.org">pim@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1136bfce395f8804fc36c6fc--


From nobody Fri Jun 20 08:32:00 2014
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-explicit-rpf-vector-04.txt
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Hi,

I noticed that the spec does not talk about what to do when it receives som=
e loose rpf vectors from one downstream neighbor and some strict ones from =
another neighbor - section 6 talks about mixed ones in the same join, and s=
ection 7 refers to section 3.3.3 [RFC5384], which is about conflicts betwee=
n the same type.

Jeffrey


From nobody Tue Jun 24 00:28:00 2014
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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
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Thread-Topic: Poll for adoption: draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-mcast-04
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From: Mike McBride <mike.mcbride@ericsson.com>
To: Bharat Joshi <bharat_joshi@infosys.com>, Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:25:49 +0000
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References: <20140612063445.16460.16098.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <539B71B3.1090307@venaas.com> <35347FBF2796F94E936EE76C0E6047ED5D163D6F@BLRKECMBX13.ad.infosys.com>
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Thank you Bharat, Stig and authors for fine tuning this document. I will no=
w submit -04 to IESG.=20

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: pim [mailto:pim-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bharat Joshi
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:53 PM
To: Stig Venaas; pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt

Stig,

        I do not have any more comments on this. Thanks to authors for taki=
ng care of my last set of comments.

Regards,
Bharat Joshi
http://bite-the-bytes.blogspot.com/
________________________________________
From: pim [pim-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Stig Venaas [stig@venaas.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:18 AM
To: pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [pim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pim-drlb-04.txt

Hi

The last version addresses my comments. So looks good to me from my point o=
f view (as a participant). Do you have any remaining issues Bharat?

The only issue I can find, is that it says "Last hop routers with the new D=
RLBC Option advertised in its Hello"
twice. Shouldn't it be "their"?

Anyway, this is something the RFC Editor can consider.

Stig

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pim mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim

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From nobody Mon Jun 30 13:58:11 2014
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Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:57:58 -0700
From: Toerless Eckert <eckert@cisco.com>
To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140630205758.GR22713@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [pim] FW: Routing Area organization
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On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 09:23:50PM +0100, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
> >
> > I am not sure why to leave PIM alone. The PIM is a protocol focus group,
> so it should be more functional focus, maybe focus on multicast functions.

AFAIK, it already has that focus if you read the charter, eg:
in general it deals with all IP multicast routing/protocol issues, eg: for
example anything MAGMA was doing previously. Multicast things
are only done in other WGs when it is multicast+FOO and FOO-WG
feels they want to own it. Which in general is a good thing because
it help to ensure multicast+FOO becomes more mainstrain within FOO.

I may be wrong. Cc'ed the WG for further clarification.

The working group name has only been kept for historic fondness.

> Also other WG that focus on one protocol should consider discussing their
> WG because usually the ones in protocol-WG are more aware to adapt to other
> functions.

Agreed. Functional grouping is certainly more desirable than protocol
centric WGs.

Cheers
    Toerless
> 
> AB

> _______________________________________________
> routing-discussion mailing list
> routing-discussion@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion


From nobody Mon Jun 30 19:23:51 2014
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Subject: Re: [pim] FW: Routing Area organization
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Hi

On 6/30/2014 1:57 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 09:23:50PM +0100, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not sure why to leave PIM alone. The PIM is a protocol focus group,
>> so it should be more functional focus, maybe focus on multicast functions.
>
> AFAIK, it already has that focus if you read the charter, eg:
> in general it deals with all IP multicast routing/protocol issues, eg: for
> example anything MAGMA was doing previously. Multicast things
> are only done in other WGs when it is multicast+FOO and FOO-WG
> feels they want to own it. Which in general is a good thing because
> it help to ensure multicast+FOO becomes more mainstrain within FOO.

Yes, it's basically multicast protocol work at this point. For multicast
we have mboned which is operational, and pim which is protocols. You're
right that if it is multicast+FOO, then it is usually done in FOO, which
I also think is good.

Stig

> I may be wrong. Cc'ed the WG for further clarification.
>
> The working group name has only been kept for historic fondness.
>
>> Also other WG that focus on one protocol should consider discussing their
>> WG because usually the ones in protocol-WG are more aware to adapt to other
>> functions.
>
> Agreed. Functional grouping is certainly more desirable than protocol
> centric WGs.
>
> Cheers
>      Toerless
>>
>> AB
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> routing-discussion mailing list
>> routing-discussion@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> routing-discussion mailing list
> routing-discussion@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion
>


From nobody Mon Jun 30 19:24:38 2014
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Subject: [pim] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC4601 (4027)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4601,
"Protocol Independent Multicast - Sparse Mode (PIM-SM): Protocol Specification (Revised)".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4601&eid=4027

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Ramakrishna DTV <ramakrishnadtv@infosys.com>

Section: 4.8.2

Original Text
-------------
     if( iif == RPF_interface(S) AND UpstreamJPState(S,G) == Joined ) {
         oiflist = inherited_olist(S,G)
     } else if( iif is in inherited_olist(S,G) ) {
         send Assert(S,G) on iif
     }

     oiflist = oiflist (-) iif
     forward packet on all interfaces in oiflist


Corrected Text
--------------
     oiflist = NULL

     if( iif == RPF_interface(S) AND UpstreamJPState(S,G) == Joined ) {
         oiflist = inherited_olist(S,G)
     } else if( iif is in inherited_olist(S,G) ) {
         send Assert(S,G) on iif
     }

     oiflist = oiflist (-) iif
     forward packet on all interfaces in oiflist


Notes
-----
The followng line is missing:

    oiflist = NULL

Without this, it may lead to accessing uninitialized variable
oiflist. This line is present in Section 4.2 from which the simplified
SSM specific pseudo code is derived.

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC4601 (draft-ietf-pim-sm-v2-new-12)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Protocol Independent Multicast - Sparse Mode (PIM-SM): Protocol Specification (Revised)
Publication Date    : August 2006
Author(s)           : B. Fenner, M. Handley, H. Holbrook, I. Kouvelas
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Protocol Independent Multicast
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG