From nobody Sun Sep 2 12:32:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70666130DE6 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:32:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqvP303ZaxLQ for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A911512F295 for ; 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Sun, 2 Sep 2018 21:31:59 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 21:31:59 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward Thread-Index: AQHUQDNcxnbj16pJ4Ei5NmHBIQFuDqTYQmCAgAArtbD//+7TAIAAPJrw///j/YCAACK/MIABhpfg///iPoAAAYb3AAACSCAAAASw6ED//+XaAIAABBYA//6/jCA= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 19:31:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com> <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com> <20a768b6fb274f7fbd51c4fcd8d2ffbd@ericsson.com> <77cdb917-4356-bf1b-49ea-8cff2acbe1c5@alum.mit.edu> <8345406d6f054048ab8c69d312e78d47@ericsson.com> <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sun, 2 Sep 2018 19:32:42 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com> <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com> <20a768b6fb274f7fbd51c4fcd8d2ffbd@ericsson.com> <77cdb917-4356-bf1b-49ea-8cff2acbe1c5@alum.mit.edu> <8345406d6f054048ab8c69d312e78d47@ericsson.com> <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <38e8215f-a2c6-cdab-69f8-81c5bf362deb@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 19:32:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqCtV3BNt8LjTwOLCzMOMFjMuTGW2 +PpjE5sDs8evr1fZPJYs+cnkcWtKQQBzFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAldG55q/jAUzuSu27rjI0sD4 hqOLkZNDQsBEYkvbEVYQW0hgB5PEibt1XYxcQPYDJolj55rBEsICzhIv998Gsjk4RASSJI51 l4CEmQXkJNYu38UOUf+aTeL+9mdMIAk2AS2JOYf+s4DYvAL2Egen/QObwyKgIrF3zQY2EFtU IE3ib+cSRogaQYmTM5+A1XMK2Ehs+dLMArHATGLe5ofMELa4xK0n85kgbHmJ5q2zmScwCsxC 0j4LScssJC2zkLQsYGRZxSiXmFOaq5ubmJlTnJqsW5ycmJeXWqRroZebWaKXmlK6iRES0iI7 GI+clDvEKMDBqMTDq6HTEy3EmlhWXJl7iFGSg0lJlNevrDNaiC8pP6UyI7E4I76oNCe1+BCj BAezkgjvl9SuaCHelMTKqtSifJiUNAeLkjgvs8neKCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpisDAeHkgTvnUKg PYJFqempFWmZOSUIaSYOTpDhPEDDu/KBaniLCxJzizPTIfKnGI05Gi70T2Lm+PN+6iRmIZa8 /LxUKXHefpBxAiClGaV5cNNgaekVozjQc8K8r0CqeIApDW7eK6BVTECrWK52gKwqSURISTUw LmTjeJ+o6th51XRZwPQugdMX/Rhkex7Ils/rc1g/RVY3Y4bon48XAyIYXlmk9pQK1hz7eJxh FeOX/eZ3HzhJVH8X3bo1aKG10fGXCk/UQsuKFj9XWdbfc/e9tJjiu5cGvDPsbpzZoHas9Kl/ 9s5L1nOllwgtODVb9VDPJbblXsG3eK2fGc7+oMRSnJFoqMVcVJwIANFgT4AmAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 23:32:46 -0000 On 9/2/18 3:31 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>> I don’t think the proxy needs to modify the Contact. The proxy can >>>> provide a local GRUU e.g., using a media feature tag. That is my >>>> idea for providing the “random value” (no matter whether it is a >>>> GRUU or not). >>> >>> Ok, we can define a new media feature tag that proxy can add to >>> response which will be used similar to permanent GRUU. The push >>> enabled UA will use value of this field as a contact for all dialog >>> creating requests it will send. >> >> Just be careful about calling it a gruu unless it actually has gruu properties. > > Well, most likely it won't be possible to use the "GRUU" outside the dialog to reach the UA... Then it is most definitely not a GRUU! > Also, I had some discussions about usage of a local GRUU provided by the proxy, and people had concerns that this would prevent the UA from generating a local GRUU by its own - whatever the use-case for that would be. > > A suggestion was to instead use the instance id: the UA would provide the instance id in the REGISTER, and in the initial request for the dialog. The push proxy would then map the instance id of the dialog to the registration/PRID, and be able to request a push notification when it e.g., receives a NOTIFY. I think that sounds like a good suggestion. This sounds better, modulo security concerns. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sun Sep 2 21:24:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E435B130DDB for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 21:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eA_dgjlNArOA for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 21:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4F1130DC8 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 21:24:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1535948690; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=devBXG43xMmVIOHDmvwyvft2wCuY3KV5lpHgQn6bV/w=; b=f3yS/ou3aKQQi0KKg1blOqS6D36h1ds8jc+rsZ4r9CDltHKmCm8LgCC+/AujStTD lgZVJ7VzQYP9f03Zl2ND9bwdb/p/msnoVUMtzSzsYv5ATHp2NKE+D0KdQxvKyEun JxoKZDcGXm+xBKPxC8MvGiU4AluXWERC9NAFARb+2p8=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8e7ff700000013ad-a0-5b8cb7929d13 Received: from ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.122]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C2.13.05037.297BC8B5; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 06:24:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.192) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 06:24:49 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 06:24:49 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward Thread-Index: AQHUQDNcxnbj16pJ4Ei5NmHBIQFuDqTYQmCAgAArtbD//+7TAIAAPJrw///j/YCAACK/MIABhpfg///iPoAAAYb3AAACSCAAAASw6ED//+XaAIAABBYA//6/jCCABJH+gP//jZEA Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 04:24:49 +0000 Message-ID: <9e4f1b3feb044d639adead460300afbf@ericsson.com> References: <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com> <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com> <20a768b6fb274f7fbd51c4fcd8d2ffbd@ericsson.com> <77cdb917-4356-bf1b-49ea-8cff2acbe1c5@alum.mit.edu> <8345406d6f054048ab8c69d312e78d47@ericsson.com> <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu> <38e8215f-a2c6-cdab-69f8-81c5bf362deb@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <38e8215f-a2c6-cdab-69f8-81c5bf362deb@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7le6k7T3RBpcWCFms2HCA1WLGhanM Fl9/bGJzYPb4+/4Dk8eSJT+ZPG5NKQhgjuKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DK+P10IlPBLIGKjz+uMDcw PuHvYuTkkBAwkbj66CNbFyMXh5DAUUaJmf/3MEI4XxklJvxYwArhLGWUePBxAVCGg4NNwEKi +582SLeIgLfEhPmr2UBsZgE5iesfNoLZwgLOEgvnTGWCqHGRmL30GdgcEYFpjBIfPlwDS7AI qEhcbVjHAmLzClhLTD13CeqMhewS//7/YwRJcAo4SLybMpkdxGYUEJP4fmoNE8Q2cYlbT+Yz 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[209.85.214.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i25-v6sm22365350pgi.31.2018.09.03.10.48.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f174.google.com with SMTP id ba4-v6so453563plb.11 for ; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:48:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7b87:: with SMTP id w7-v6mr29293142pll.142.1535996889965; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:48:09 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000000a9a60574fb25e1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2018 17:48:14 -0000 --00000000000000a9a60574fb25e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Christer, On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > The text for the SIP UA section would be something like: > > "When the UA sends a REGISTER request (initial request for a registration > or a binding refresh requests), if the UA supports SIP dialogs where the UA > due long durations between in-dialog requests might be suspended while a > dialog is > still ongoing, the UA MUST include a '+sip.instance' Contact header field > parameter [RFC5626] in the REGISTER request." > > "When the UA sends an initial request for a dialog, or a 2xx response to > an initial request for a dialog, if the UA due long durations between > in-dialog requests might be suspended, and if the UA has included a > '+sip.instance' Contact header > field parameter in its REGISTER requests, the UA MUST include a > '+sip.instance' Contact header field parameter in the initial request (or > 2xx response) for the dialog." > > (I will submit a proper pull request, including also procedure text for > the push proxy, if people are ok moving forward with an instance id based > approach.) > > I generally like this solution. One comment that I have, should reg-id parameter be included in the contact as well for completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to registration. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000000a9a60574fb25e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christer,

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Christer Holmberg <= span dir=3D"ltr"><christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
The text for the SIP UA section would be somethin= g like:

"When the UA sends a REGISTER request (initial request for a registrat= ion or a binding refresh requests), if the UA supports SIP dialogs where th= e UA due long durations between in-dialog requests might be suspended while= a dialog is
still ongoing, the UA MUST include a '+sip.instance' Contact header= field parameter [RFC5626] in the REGISTER request."

"When the UA sends an initial request for a dialog, or a 2xx response = to an initial request for a dialog, if the UA due long durations between in= -dialog requests might be suspended, and if the UA has included a '+sip= .instance' Contact header
field parameter in its REGISTER requests, the UA MUST=C2=A0 include a '= +sip.instance' Contact header field parameter in the initial request (o= r 2xx response) for the dialog."

(I will submit a proper pull request, including also procedure text for the= push proxy, if people are ok moving forward with an instance id based appr= oach.)


I generally like this soluti= on. One comment that I have, should reg-id parameter be included in the con= tact as well for completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to re= gistration.

Regards,
_____________
Roman S= hpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.215.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t86-v6sm26162469pfe.109.2018.09.03.10.57.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id i190-v6so466025pgc.6 for ; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:bc0a:: with SMTP id q10-v6mr12565450pge.60.1535997450105; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:57:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 10:57:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9e4f1b3feb044d639adead460300afbf@ericsson.com> References: <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com> <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com> <20a768b6fb274f7fbd51c4fcd8d2ffbd@ericsson.com> <77cdb917-4356-bf1b-49ea-8cff2acbe1c5@alum.mit.edu> <8345406d6f054048ab8c69d312e78d47@ericsson.com> <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu> <38e8215f-a2c6-cdab-69f8-81c5bf362deb@alum.mit.edu> <9e4f1b3feb044d639adead460300afbf@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:57:29 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000063b81e0574fb4690" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2018 17:57:33 -0000 --00000000000063b81e0574fb4690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 12:24 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > I guess whatever normal security concerns associated with instance id > apply. > The only issue I see here is privacy, since instance-id can be used for fingerprinting and allows extraction of information about user, such as what device this user is currently using. When GRUU is used, in circumstances where privacy is a concern, instance-id is only be visible to Registrar. If UA wants to hide its identity, it will use temporary GRUU in the contact which will not expose instance-id to other parties in the dialog. In practice, if GRUU is not used, direct user contact address is already visible and same information can already be extracted. I would suggest that in this draft, we should put a note that if privacy is a concern, GRUU support must be installed and and temp GRUU must be used. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000063b81e0574fb4690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 12:24 AM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
I guess whatever normal security concerns associated with instance i= d apply.

The only issue I see here is p= rivacy, since instance-id can be used for fingerprinting and allows extract= ion of information about user, such as what device this user is currently u= sing. When GRUU is used, in circumstances where privacy is a concern, insta= nce-id is only be visible to Registrar. If UA wants to hide its identity, i= t will use temporary GRUU in the contact which will not expose instance-id = to other parties in the dialog. In practice, if GRUU is not used, direct us= er contact address is already visible and same information can already be e= xtracted. I would suggest that in this draft, we should put a note that if = privacy is a concern, GRUU support must be installed and and temp GRUU must= be used.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.214.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v23-v6sm26016419pfm.80.2018.09.03.19.14.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id f1-v6so858822plt.4 for ; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:1ab:: with SMTP id b40-v6mr32045991plb.55.1536027271097; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:14:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 19:14:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:14:30 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dbf66d05750237dc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:14:34 -0000 --000000000000dbf66d05750237dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > I generally like this solution. One comment that I have, should reg-id > parameter be included in the contact as well for > > completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to registration. > > I was thinking about that, but I don't see what reg-id would bring from a > SIP push perspective. > Technically the same UA can register multiple times through the same proxies and registrars with different contacts for different AOR and provide different pn- values. UA will use the same sip.instance parameter in the contact but different ref-id. If reg-id is provided with contact in the dialog creating request (or 2XX response to it), it is possible to determine the specific registration which corresponds to this contact. Otherwise proxy will need to pull information for all registrations from the UA and potentially send multiple push notifications. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000dbf66d05750237dc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Chr= ister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>= wrote:
> I generally like this solution. One comment tha= t I have, should reg-id parameter be included in the contact as well for > completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to registration.<= br>
I was thinking about that, but I don't see what reg-id would bri= ng from a SIP push perspective.

Technically = the same UA can register multiple times through the same proxies and regist= rars with different contacts for different AOR and provide different pn- va= lues. UA will use the same sip.instance parameter in the contact but differ= ent ref-id. If reg-id is provided with contact in the dialog creating reque= st (or 2XX response to it), it is possible to determine the specific regist= ration which corresponds to this contact. Otherwise proxy will need to pull= information for all registrations from the UA and potentially send multipl= e push notifications.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.210.171]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c8-v6sm15298086pfb.147.2018.09.04.06.24.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Sep 2018 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id j8-v6so1700540pff.6 for ; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:d401:: with SMTP id a1-v6mr29076889pgh.414.1536067452329; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:24:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:24:11 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8e6af05750b928f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2018 13:24:16 -0000 --000000000000d8e6af05750b928f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 2:41 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>> I generally like this solution. One comment that I have, should reg-id > parameter be included in the contact as well for > >>> completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to registration. > >> > >> I was thinking about that, but I don't see what reg-id would bring from > a SIP push perspective. > > > > Technically the same UA can register multiple times through the same > proxies and registrars with different contacts for different AOR > > and provide different pn- values. UA will use the same sip.instance > parameter in the contact but different ref-id. If reg-id is provided with > > contact in the dialog creating request (or 2XX response to it), it is > possible to determine the specific registration which corresponds to this > > contact. Otherwise proxy will need to pull information for all > registrations from the UA and potentially send multiple push notifications. > > I think we should leave that for the future outbound-support work. In > reality I think UAs will use a single push notification subscription, which > means that they need to send re-REGISTER for all bindings. > > Does the draft specify that UA must use the same push notification subscription for all registrations? it might not be possible if UA actually registers with two different services. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000d8e6af05750b928f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Sep 4, 2018 at 2:41 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmb= erg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>> I generally like this solution. One comment tha= t I have, should reg-id parameter be included in the contact as well for >>> completeness? This way there is a one-to-one mapping to regist= ration.
>>
>> I was thinking about that, but I don't see what reg-id would b= ring from a SIP push perspective.
>
> Technically the same UA can register multiple times through the same p= roxies and registrars with different contacts for different AOR
> and provide different pn- values. UA will use the same sip.instance pa= rameter in the contact but different ref-id. If reg-id is provided with > contact in the dialog creating request (or 2XX response to it), it is = possible to determine the specific registration which corresponds to this <= br> > contact. Otherwise proxy will need to pull information for all registr= ations from the UA and potentially send multiple push notifications.

I think we should leave that for the future outbound-support work. I= n reality I think UAs will use a single push notification subscription, whi= ch means that they need to send re-REGISTER for all bindings.


Does the draft specify that UA must us= e the same push notification subscription for all registrations? it might n= ot be possible if UA actually registers with two different services.
<= div>
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--000000000000d8e6af05750b928f-- From nobody Wed Sep 5 07:25:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E818130E1A for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 07:25:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tND1pM-SEIwa for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FDCE130E08 for ; 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Wed, 5 Sep 2018 16:25:02 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 16:25:02 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgA== Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 14:25:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7la7d8/5og4/H9S1WbDjAajHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8ff+ByWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlLNsmWnBPuGLuqrwGxjnC XYycHBICJhLNH8+zdDFycQgJHGWU2Hx/EzNIQkjgK6PEjukmEImljBK79vYAJTg42AQsJLr/ aYPUiAioSvz9PpkJxGYWcJG4e+0pG0iJsECCRPuHSoiSRImnU++zQthhEvcPHAMbzyKgIvGk YTtYnFfAXuLbiT5GiFV/mCQe3l0GVsQpEChx8O00dhCbUUBM4vupNVC7xCVuPZnPBPGAgMSS PeeZIWxRiZeP/7GC3CAqoC8x7XIARFhJYkvvFiaQMLOApsT6XfoQU6wlDu7Zwg5hK0pM6X7I DnGOoMTJmU9YJjBKzEKybBZC9ywk3bOQdM9C0r2AkXUVo2hxanFSbrqRkV5qUWZycXF+nl5e askmRmA8Htzy22AH48vnjocYBTgYlXh411/ujxZiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwmt0EijEm5JYWZVa lB9fVJqTWnyIUZqDRUmc18Jvc5SQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMlomDU6qB0Wvpgjz7RX9eth4+8MGB 8cOto+6svmvaVOw3+HWd/fJj4q4v0S1akv9qtdlOH2dqOrZjYefOs0nle6r/Zge0B3/oaI0O DecR5GxcpK7y58n01xzfEmNWH1U83/Kf88WqbKfSDS3yGvW+DcW6UYffGSZ9ZNDWu7XrrNGl ZQEvE7SOvbQ8n2qiosRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAGrsVpnDAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 14:25:09 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+Pj4+IEkgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IGxpa2UgdGhpcyBzb2x1dGlvbi4gT25lIGNvbW1lbnQg dGhhdCBJIGhhdmUsIHNob3VsZCByZWctaWQgcGFyYW1ldGVyIGJlIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBj b250YWN0IGFzIHdlbGwgZm9yIA0KPj4+Pj4gY29tcGxldGVuZXNzPyBUaGlzIHdheSB0aGVyZSBp cyBhIG9uZS10by1vbmUgbWFwcGluZyB0byByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24uDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IEkgd2Fz IHRoaW5raW5nIGFib3V0IHRoYXQsIGJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IHNlZSB3aGF0IHJlZy1pZCB3b3VsZCBi cmluZyBmcm9tIGEgU0lQIHB1c2ggcGVyc3BlY3RpdmUuDQo+Pj4NCj4+PiBUZWNobmljYWxseSB0 aGUgc2FtZSBVQSBjYW4gcmVnaXN0ZXIgbXVsdGlwbGUgdGltZXMgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgc2FtZSBw cm94aWVzIGFuZCByZWdpc3RyYXJzIHdpdGggZGlmZmVyZW50IGNvbnRhY3RzIGZvciBkaWZmZXJl bnQgQU9SIA0KPj4+IGFuZCBwcm92aWRlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBwbi0gdmFsdWVzLiBVQSB3aWxsIHVz ZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBzaXAuaW5zdGFuY2UgcGFyYW1ldGVyIGluIHRoZSBjb250YWN0IGJ1dCBkaWZm ZXJlbnQgcmVmLWlkLiBJZiByZWctaWQgaXMgcHJvdmlkZWQgd2l0aCANCj4+PiBjb250YWN0IGlu IHRoZSBkaWFsb2cgY3JlYXRpbmcgcmVxdWVzdCAob3IgMlhYIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIGl0KSwgaXQg aXMgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIHRoZSBzcGVjaWZpYyByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gd2hpY2gg Y29ycmVzcG9uZHMgdG8gdGhpcyANCj4+PiBjb250YWN0LiBPdGhlcndpc2UgcHJveHkgd2lsbCBu ZWVkIHRvIHB1bGwgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gZm9yIGFsbCByZWdpc3RyYXRpb25zIGZyb20gdGhlIFVB IGFuZCBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSBzZW5kIG11bHRpcGxlIHB1c2ggbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucy4NCj4+DQo+ PiBJIHRoaW5rIHdlIHNob3VsZCBsZWF2ZSB0aGF0IGZvciB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIG91dGJvdW5kLXN1 cHBvcnQgd29yay4gSW4gcmVhbGl0eSBJIHRoaW5rIFVBcyB3aWxsIHVzZSBhIHNpbmdsZSBwdXNo IG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sIHdoaWNoIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgdGhleSBuZWVkIHRv IHNlbmQgcmUtUkVHSVNURVIgZm9yIGFsbCBiaW5kaW5ncy4NCj4NCj4gRG9lcyB0aGUgZHJhZnQg c3BlY2lmeSB0aGF0IFVBIG11c3QgdXNlIHRoZSBzYW1lIHB1c2ggbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIHN1YnNj cmlwdGlvbiBmb3IgYWxsIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbnM/IGl0IG1pZ2h0IG5vdCBiZSBwb3NzaWJsZSBp ZiBVQSBhY3R1YWxseSByZWdpc3RlcnMgd2l0aCB0d28gZGlmZmVyZW50IHNlcnZpY2VzLg0KDQpF dmVuIGlmIHdlIHVzZSByZWctaWQsIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIGd1YXJhbnRlZSB0aGF0IHR3byBzZXJ2 aWNlcyB3b3VsZCB1c2UgZGlmZmVyZW50IHZhbHVlcy4gDQoNClRoZSBvbmx5IHdheSB0byBhc3Nv Y2lhdGUgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uKHMpIHdpdGggYSBzcGVjaWZpYyBwdXNoIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBz dWJzY3JpcHRpb24gaXMgdXNpbmcgdGhlIFBSSUQuDQoNClNvLCBwZXJoYXBzIHdlIGFueXdheSBz aG91bGQgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgUFJJRCBpbiB0aGUgaW5pdGlhbCByZXF1ZXN0L3Jlc3BvbnNlIGZv ciBhIGRpYWxvZyAoZS5nLiwgU1VCU0NSSUJFKS4gSXQgY291bGQgYmUgaW5jbHVkZWQgYXMgYSBm ZWF0dXJlIHRhZywgd2hpY2ggbWVhbnMgdGhlIHB1c2ggcHJveHkgY2FuIHJlbW92ZSBpdCB3aXRo b3V0IGJlaW5nIGEgQjJCVUEsIGFuZCB0aGUgdmFsdWUgd291bGQgbm90IGJlIHNlbnQgdG8gdGhl IHJlbW90ZSBuZXR3b3JrIChyZWFkOiBubyBwcml2YWN5IGlzc3VlcykuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoN CkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCsKgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Sep 5 09:17:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7886130E86 for ; 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Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:16:45 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:16:43 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprEKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqFvIOCHa4GWTrcWFmYcZLWZcmMps 8fXHJjYHZo9fX6+yeSxZ8pPJ49aUggDmKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6Mo2+OsRc8YauYt3saUwPj BtYuRk4OCQETiWlz5rOD2EICO5gklq327GLkArIfMEnsXngEqIiDQ1ggQaL9QyWIKSKQJHGs uwSknFlATmLt8l3sEOWbmCUWPT0FNpNNQEtizqH/LCA2r4C9xJyVzxhBbBYBFYld05vAakQF 0iT+di5hhKgRlDg58wlYPaeAg8SLh28ZIRaYSczb/JAZwhaXuPVkPhOELS+x/e0c5gmMArOQ tM9C0jILScssJC0LGFlWMcol5pTm6uYmZuYUpybrFicn5uWlFuka6+VmluilppRuYoQENN8O xvb1MocYBTgYlXh4F5zrjxZiTSwrrsw9xCjJwaQkyivjARTiS8pPqcxILM6ILyrNSS0+xCjB wawkwtv+HijHm5JYWZValA+TkuZgURLnZTPZGyUkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWgSTleHgUJLglWCYEC0k WJSanlqRlplTgpBm4uAEGc4DNHzDf5DhxQWJucWZ6RD5U4zGHA0X+icxc/x5P3USsxBLXn5e qpQ47zeQUgGQ0ozSPLhpsKT0ilEc6DlhXjOQpTzAhAY37xXQKiagVUsO9ICsKklESEk1MIr5 G/bmVE5pPKQTO+3EikcTg009DrRuaZsqx6W7j+mpnXRhYsPP+4d/efcxTn8SX5hUOmu7fE7h +Y6Hq8Jfv3+Vq5gYHPVi6r/7rq2v9jp3Km9QDZKt12ouvGq565vaGkc5+xifrQ3HFv82W6np teuRWXq0u+6DlHPRd5XXxm3iPd92yvmgnhJLcUaioRZzUXEiAJrVYUwlAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:17:01 -0000 On 9/5/18 10:25 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Even if we use reg-id, there is no guarantee that two services would use different values. > > The only way to associate registration(s) with a specific push notification subscription is using the PRID. > > So, perhaps we anyway should include the PRID in the initial request/response for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE). It could be included as a feature tag, which means the push proxy can remove it without being a B2BUA, and the value would not be sent to the remote network (read: no privacy issues). This only works if the UA *knows* that there is a middlebox that will remove this. If there doesn't happen to be one then the PRID will leak to the UAS. I've lost track of the details of the environment where this case arises, so I don't know if this is a reasonable assumption. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Sep 5 10:59:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C93130DC0 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2g6bSig0x0vy for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 10:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 564CF130D7A for ; 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Wed, 5 Sep 2018 19:59:19 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 19:59:19 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgP//6naAgAA9mJA= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:59:19 +0000 Message-ID: <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iW655IRog5MHNCxWbDjAajHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8ff+ByWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlLDxzl6ngBGfFpKvLWBoY V3B2MXJySAiYSCxdd5UdxBYSOMoosWBFchcjF5D9lVHi8JdONghnKaPE687VzF2MHBxsAhYS 3f+0QRpEBLwlJsxfzQZiMwvISVz/sBHMFhZIkNh98ikrRE2ixNOp96HsJIkXk2+zgNgsAioS b06tA4vzClhL3HnyhRli1wtmid7en2AJTgEHiduXfzOB2IwCYhLfT61hglgmLnHryXwmiA8E JJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpLYe+w6C8jNzAKaEut36UO0KkpM6X7IDrFXUOLkzCcsExjFZiGZ OguhYxaSjllIOhYwsqxiFC1OLU7KTTcy0kstykwuLs7P08tLLdnECIyng1t+G+xgfPnc8RCj AAejEg+vuPCEaCHWxLLiytxDjBIczEoivO3v+6OFeFMSK6tSi/Lji0pzUosPMUpzsCiJ81r4 bY4SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CyTJxcEo1MO6YuV6TvXkRX+HVXctfhxfdCy8R+TVj8Ya/ovVJoaZh bcs6RM8HWOvKzVbO55CrNij9/KbjoIm8+q3ZbmdvnJ270IxPRtNMpOjgqoUVE7KlBD//qOw9 eKJ9++UXD0/p+TL2m05Xe3x/taaqTErAitedx1SWbPX7bHb1s8i790LOYVPT/9ndc1RiKc5I NNRiLipOBADpV4FiowIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 17:59:24 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+IEV2ZW4gaWYgd2UgdXNlIHJlZy1pZCwgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gZ3VhcmFudGVlIHRo YXQgdHdvIHNlcnZpY2VzIHdvdWxkIHVzZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdmFsdWVzLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaGUg b25seSB3YXkgdG8gYXNzb2NpYXRlIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbihzKSB3aXRoIGEgc3BlY2lmaWMgcHVz aCBub3RpZmljYXRpb24gc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIGlzIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBQUklELg0KPj4gDQo+PiBT bywgcGVyaGFwcyB3ZSBhbnl3YXkgc2hvdWxkIGluY2x1ZGUgdGhlIFBSSUQgaW4gdGhlIGluaXRp YWwgcmVxdWVzdC9yZXNwb25zZSBmb3IgYSBkaWFsb2cgKGUuZy4sIFNVQlNDUklCRSkuIEl0IGNv dWxkIA0KPj4gYmUgaW5jbHVkZWQgYXMgYSBmZWF0dXJlIHRhZywgd2hpY2ggbWVhbnMgdGhlIHB1 c2ggcHJveHkgY2FuIHJlbW92ZSBpdCB3aXRob3V0IGJlaW5nIGEgQjJCVUEsIGFuZCB0aGUgdmFs dWUgd291bGQgDQo+PiBub3QgYmUgc2VudCB0byB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIG5ldHdvcmsgKHJlYWQ6IG5v IHByaXZhY3kgaXNzdWVzKS4NCj4NCj4gVGhpcyBvbmx5IHdvcmtzIGlmIHRoZSBVQSAqa25vd3Mq IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBtaWRkbGVib3ggdGhhdCB3aWxsIHJlbW92ZSB0aGlzLiBJZiB0aGVy ZSBkb2Vzbid0IGhhcHBlbiB0byBiZSBvbmUgdGhlbiB0aGUgUFJJRCB3aWxsIGxlYWsgdG8gdGhl IFVBUy4NCg0KVGhlIGlkZWEgaXMgdGhhdCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBzcGVjaWZ5IHRoYXQgdGhlIHB1c2gg cHJveHkgTVVTVCByZW1vdmUgaXQsIGlmIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSByZXF1ZXN0LiANCg0KVGhl IFVBIHdpbGwgZmluZCBvdXQgZHVyaW5nIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiB3aGV0aGVyIFNJUCBwdXNoIHdp bGwgYmUgdXNlZC4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0K From nobody Wed Sep 5 12:57:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CFB130DCF for ; 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Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:57:04 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:57:03 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqCtkOiHaYMlmJosLMw8zWsy4MJXZ 4uuPTWwOzB6/vl5l81iy5CeTx60pBQHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZf2ddZito5aw4cGguewPj NPYuRk4OCQETiXV75rJ2MXJxCAnsYJI4dO4EM4TzgEliW/tSoCoODmGBBIn2D5UgpohAksSx 7hKQXmYBOYm1y3exQ5TPYpGYc/M1G0iCTUBLYs6h/ywgNq+AvcTle+fA4iwCKhKP/1xlArFF BdIk/nYuYYSoEZQ4OfMJWD2ngI3E8punGSEWmEnM2/yQGcIWl7j1ZD4ThC0vsf3tHOYJjAKz kLTPQtIyC0nLLCQtCxhZVjHKJeaU5urmJmbmFKcm6xYnJ+blpRbpmurlZpbopaaUbmKEhLTg DsYZJ+UOMQpwMCrx8C441x8txJpYVlyZe4hRkoNJSZRXxgMoxJeUn1KZkVicEV9UmpNafIhR goNZSYS3/T1QjjclsbIqtSgfJiXNwaIkzstssjdKSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJivDwaEkwctvMiFa SLAoNT21Ii0zpwQhzcTBCTKcB2j4VGOgGt7igsTc4sx0iPwpRmOOhgv9k5g5/ryfOolZiCUv Py9VSpx3IkipAEhpRmke3DRYWnrFKA70nDDvM5AqHmBKg5v3CmgVE9CqJQd6QFaVJCKkpBoY mUyMZ+yP934wRcj9Rf3218onN8RLz1fJ+rM47IWt7BWH/N5LMxbJfYmvcFgi7fjMnUXX33KH 7AzXafMmp7bXbZvjJVBZvCDqlXNGk9X76i6O4xGJAouady9f6KLXprl82r+dNxWjnz46nXzs z8IrUk9z707XdV78NcbFotfZpkty/2qzvdbeSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAfsj5eSYDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 19:57:09 -0000 On 9/5/18 1:59 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>> Even if we use reg-id, there is no guarantee that two services would use different values. >>> >>> The only way to associate registration(s) with a specific push notification subscription is using the PRID. >>> >>> So, perhaps we anyway should include the PRID in the initial request/response for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE). It could >>> be included as a feature tag, which means the push proxy can remove it without being a B2BUA, and the value would >>> not be sent to the remote network (read: no privacy issues). >> >> This only works if the UA *knows* that there is a middlebox that will remove this. If there doesn't happen to be one then the PRID will leak to the UAS. > > The idea is that we would specify that the push proxy MUST remove it, if included in the request. > > The UA will find out during registration whether SIP push will be used. Does the agreement during registration guarantee that a push proxy will be on the path for dialogs? I think that then needs to be a normative requirement, along with the requirement to remove the PRID. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Sep 5 13:05:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B9E130E64 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b41_uZ6lwNTS for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2018 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE373130E9B for ; 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Wed, 5 Sep 2018 18:09:57 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 18:09:56 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqGseMiHaYMF8TYsLMw8zWsy4MJXZ 4uuPTWwOzB6/vl5l81iy5CeTx60pBQHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZE/asZi+YJlDR9LeHsYHx LU8XIyeHhICJxJVXj1i6GLk4hAR2MElcP3WXFcJ5wCTRcXoJUxcjB4ewQIJE+4dKEFNEIEni WHcJSC+zgJzE2uW72CHKm1glDt5bxg6SYBPQkphz6D8LiM0rYC+xof8sWJxFQEVi6aFjYLao QJrE384ljBA1ghInZz4Bq+cUsJGY1H2aFWKBmcS8zQ+ZIWxxiVtP5jNB2PIS29/OYZ7AKDAL SfssJC2zkLTMQtKygJFlFaNcYk5prm5uYmZOcWqybnFyYl5eapGuiV5uZoleakrpJkZISPPv YOxaL3OIUYCDUYmHd8G5/mgh1sSy4srcQ4ySHExKorwyHkAhvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wS HMxKIrzt74FyvCmJlVWpRfkwKWkOFiVxXlaTvVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWRkODiUJ3rTgCdFC gkWp6akVaZk5JQhpJg5OkOE8QMObQWp4iwsSc4sz0yHypxiNORou9E9i5vjzfuokZiGWvPy8 VClxXhaQUgGQ0ozSPLhpsLT0ilEc6DlhXg6QKh5gSoOb9wpoFRPQqiUHekBWlSQipKQaGJtE H9pZnH/IkfAl52CmSVqeae7fv2bxGR8008pslY5+zH43RYB7W5T9114D3/m7hIQMw7Mupu/2 +nF7mu/Dp0uuqoodYFhh6bq5qMFwrkm/bMvxEs8Q5gt7yxg9hdV87rX8ELjHsnzLm7dcx6zj vcpvmSw9sHiSB9e2X5qWB9/d9tkfMOXdXSWW4oxEQy3mouJEAEv3HgomAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 22:10:03 -0000 On 9/5/18 4:05 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>> Even if we use reg-id, there is no guarantee that two services would use different values. >>>>> >>>>> The only way to associate registration(s) with a specific push notification subscription is using the PRID. >>>>> >>>>> So, perhaps we anyway should include the PRID in the initial >>>>> request/response for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE). It could be >>>>> included as a feature tag, which means the push proxy can remove it without being a B2BUA, and >>>>> the value would not be sent to the remote network (read: no privacy issues). >>>> >>>> This only works if the UA *knows* that there is a middlebox that will remove this. If there doesn't happen to be one then the PRID will leak to the UAS. >>> >>> The idea is that we would specify that the push proxy MUST remove it, if included in the request. >>> >>> The UA will find out during registration whether SIP push will be used. >> >> Does the agreement during registration guarantee that a push proxy will be on the path for dialogs? >> I think that then needs to be a normative requirement, > > That is the assumption, because otherwise the proxy won't be able to request a push notification towards the UA if it receives a mid-dialog request and the UA is suspended - which is the reason we'd include the PRID in the initial request/response of the dialog to begin with. It seems like there are two cases: - those that only require a notification for re-registration and out-of-dialog requests; - those that also require notification in the midst of *certain* long dialogs. Only for the 2nd case is a push proxy required on the dialog path. At the time of registration, it seems to be necessary to declare or negotiate with case this is. Things would be simpler if we could exclude one of those cases. Either by stating that the second case is not being addressed at all, or by stating that the machinery to support the second case must be present whether the UA needs it or not. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu Sep 6 00:02:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB67130DE5 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 00:02:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mUZF39EwqZzZ for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 00:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 375D412785F for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 00:02:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1536217367; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JWPT+5dop+dKBt9fOIL4f2V2er6y6nKjfXf8tTlMuQw=; b=XJMMEIHGA3r/ZveSiN19ooRN36RaK+5xqLuWRO/PBxkeiUXaR1ZFQcD3z9/Z1uaf u2gmOMAKeZ1YDVip2s8o11wHNJJ+A6R8LG4LUKlVfaaEXvVxXmJdXkFuG6m2CI5k FV70jWFuyxpPg2MKu4YJK058EfgtXDD+X7w0Zm4nhHs=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-6ba019c000007a64-dc-5b90d117845e Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 11.AD.31332.711D09B5; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:02:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:02:46 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:02:46 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgP//6naAgAA9mJD////3gIAAIsZwgAACWwCAAMmfAA== Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 07:02:46 +0000 Message-ID: <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ta74xQnRBgd/KVms2HCA1WLGhanM Fl9/bGJzYPb4+/4Dk8eSJT+ZPG5NKQhgjuKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKOPjuPHvBFNmKEye/MDYw bpHpYuTgkBAwkfjVbd3FyMUhJHCUUWLqlduMEM5XRokrl9dDOUsZJW5PbmQH6WATsJDo/qfd xcjJISLgLTFh/mo2EJtZQE7i+oeNbCAlwgIJEu0fKiFKEiWeTr3PChIWEaiT+D+rDiTMIqAi 8fvyTnYQm1fAXmLe77ksEJt2sEqc+nODBaSeU8BBYs/0FJAaRgExie+n1jBBbBKXuPVkPpgt ISAgsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/YKtEBfQlpl0OgAgrSWzp3cIEEmYW0JRYv0sfYoq1xPrN/6FuV5SY 0v0Q6hpBiZMzn7BMYJSYhWTZLITuWUi6ZyHpnoWkewEj6ypG0eLU4uLcdCMjvdSizOTi4vw8 vbzUkk2MwHg8uOW31Q7Gg88dDzEKcDAq8fA+PjQhWog1say4MvcQowQHs5IIr3s1UIg3JbGy KrUoP76oNCe1+BCjNAeLkjivU5pFlJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoFxwkrT36sVznxImCG7 aKfJ6wQuPo35HZOtZ/naxP6/lRW0f+oKnzeeb11z5+bvkO4V5mw6/jZX+cqsms4lk2uOP2E6 78l4eW7iFyn5zTI7wlMOhS9l/bVefifrhTeqEh/O9szVcRWRmbC2U6PiVs6+56vz1s9Yqqy6 orrL2FtMhW1bs/evxwuPKLEUZyQaajEXFScCACkYpi7DAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 07:02:51 -0000 SGksDQogDQogICAgPj4+Pj4+IEV2ZW4gaWYgd2UgdXNlIHJlZy1pZCwgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gZ3Vh cmFudGVlIHRoYXQgdHdvIHNlcnZpY2VzIHdvdWxkIHVzZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdmFsdWVzLg0KICAg ID4+Pj4+Pg0KICAgID4+Pj4+PiBUaGUgb25seSB3YXkgdG8gYXNzb2NpYXRlIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlv 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cyBpbmNsdWRlcyB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZSB0YWcsIGFuZCB0aGUgcHJveHkgZGVjaWRlcyB3aGV0aGVy IHRoZSBtYWNoaW5lcnkgaXMgbmVlZGVkIGZvciBhIGdpdmVuIGRpYWxvZw0KDQogICAgIFRoZSBs b2dpYyBmb3IgbWFraW5nIHRoZSBkZWNpc2lvbiB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZSBtYWNoaW5lcnkgaXMgbmVl ZGVkIGZvciBhIGRpYWxvZyB3b3VsZCBiZSBiYXNlZCBvbiBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uLCBidXQgSSBh c3N1bWUgaW4gbW9zdCBjYXNlcyBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSB1c2VkIGZvciBTVUIvTk9UIGRpYWxvZ3Mu DQoNCiAgICBSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQogICAgQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiAgICANCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Thu Sep 6 08:24:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA45F130E92 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 08:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6uNqSnacd6Pf for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 08:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C1D130E1A for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 08:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-017ff70000007bb2-5e-5b9146c4c2c4 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 5B.31.31666.4C6419B5; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 11:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w86FOpum000340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 6 Sep 2018 11:24:51 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 11:24:50 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqHvEbWK0weMXqhYXZh5mtJhxYSqz xdcfm9gcmD1+fb3K5rFkyU8mj1tTCgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgydk39wV5wjKfi4osW1gbG 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Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:24:55 -0000 On 9/6/18 3:02 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > It seems like there are two cases: > > > > - those that only require a notification for re-registration and > > out-of-dialog requests; > > > > - those that also require notification in the midst of *certain* long > > dialogs. > > > > Only for the 2nd case is a push proxy required on the dialog path. At > > the time of registration, it seems to be necessary to declare or > > negotiate with case this is. > > > > Things would be simpler if we could exclude one of those cases. Either > > by stating that the second case is not being addressed at all, or by > > stating that the machinery to support the second case must be present > > whether the UA needs it or not. > > There are two ways: > > 1) The UA indicates whether it needs the machinery for a given dialog, by including the feature tag in the initial request for the dialog > 2) The UA always includes the feature tag, and the proxy decides whether the machinery is needed for a given dialog > > The logic for making the decision whether the machinery is needed for a dialog would be based on configuration, but I assume in most cases it would be used for SUB/NOT dialogs. Are you proposing that there be a separate feature tag for requesting in-dialog support? This is sounding like a use case for either Require'ing an option tag or a caller-pref. Since the UA probably can't function without this the option tag seems preferred. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu Sep 6 09:28:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FA4130EC0 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:28:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7D4a5ii6AYGh for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 203CE130EBF for ; 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Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:28:36 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:28:35 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgP//6naAgAA9mJD////3gIAAIsZwgAACWwCAAMmfAIAAV4cAgAAtWAA= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9Qndb6MRog7WHpCxWbDjAajHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8ff+ByWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBl/H3hVNAkWrF240rmBsY9 Il2MnBwSAiYS79a/Yu9i5OIQEjjKKNH5cRmU85VR4tCZb+wgVUICSxklFq0V62Lk4GATsJDo /qcNEhYR8JaYMH81G4jNLCAncf3DRjBbWCBBYvfJp6wQNYkST6feZwWZKSLQxShx/l8nK8gc FgEViTOTC0BqeAWsJVZOm8ICsXcJm0Tz1elggzgFHCTOH5oMNohRQEzi+6k1TBDLxCVuPZnP BPGBgMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP/7FC2EoSe49dZwHZxSygKbF+lz5Eq6LElO6H7BB7BSVOznzCMoFR bBaSqbMQOmYh6ZiFpGMBI8sqRtHi1OLi3HQjY73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMBoOrjlt+4OxtWv HQ8xCnAwKvHwSjpPjBZiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwutePSFaiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uS OK/eqj1RQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsb0JJ258v+PRUldv3jtdEjsf61HVn8m9X57YWrz S1QqvGc1e8fiN2+EDx8PCz5ftuKfY6zY6dLuqz6Cp79NuGTSGvv0ZPrqprUyYnwd8yLWiohb V/nlNUXuP7Cd37hkyccss1n2kclzciddfDl1QUiITMJVAX4jpeOMugWflPMviybtrNi7TEmJ pTgj0VCLuag4EQAZ195mogIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 16:28:42 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+PiBJdCBzZWVtcyBsaWtlIHRoZXJlIGFyZSB0d28gY2FzZXM6DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiAt IHRob3NlIHRoYXQgb25seSByZXF1aXJlIGEgbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciByZS1yZWdpc3RyYXRp b24gYW5kDQo+Pj5vdXQtb2YtZGlhbG9nIHJlcXVlc3RzOw0KPj4+DQo+Pj4gLSB0aG9zZSB0aGF0 IGFsc28gcmVxdWlyZSBub3RpZmljYXRpb24gaW4gdGhlIG1pZHN0IG9mICpjZXJ0YWluKiBsb25n DQo+Pj4gZGlhbG9ncy4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+IE9ubHkgZm9yIHRoZSAybmQgY2FzZSBpcyBhIHB1c2gg cHJveHkgcmVxdWlyZWQgb24gdGhlIGRpYWxvZyBwYXRoLiBBdA0KPj4+IHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHJl Z2lzdHJhdGlvbiwgaXQgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIGRlY2xhcmUgb3INCj4+PiBu ZWdvdGlhdGUgd2l0aCBjYXNlIHRoaXMgaXMuDQo+Pj4NCj4+PiBUaGluZ3Mgd291bGQgYmUgc2lt cGxlciBpZiB3ZSBjb3VsZCBleGNsdWRlIG9uZSBvZiB0aG9zZSBjYXNlcy4gRWl0aGVyDQo+Pj4g Ynkgc3RhdGluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSBzZWNvbmQgY2FzZSBpcyBub3QgYmVpbmcgYWRkcmVzc2VkIGF0 IGFsbCwgb3IgYnkNCj4+PiBzdGF0aW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlIG1hY2hpbmVyeSB0byBzdXBwb3J0IHRo ZSBzZWNvbmQgY2FzZSBtdXN0IGJlIHByZXNlbnQNCj4+PiB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZSBVQSBuZWVkcyBp dCBvciBub3QuDQo+PiANCj4+ICAgICAgVGhlcmUgYXJlIHR3byB3YXlzOg0KPj4gDQo+PiAgICAg ICAxKSBUaGUgVUEgaW5kaWNhdGVzIHdoZXRoZXIgaXQgbmVlZHMgdGhlIG1hY2hpbmVyeSBmb3Ig YSBnaXZlbiBkaWFsb2csIGJ5IGluY2x1ZGluZyB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZSB0YWcgaW4gdGhlIGluaXRp YWwgcmVxdWVzdCBmb3IgdGhlIGRpYWxvZw0KPj4gICAgICAgMikgVGhlIFVBIGFsd2F5cyBpbmNs dWRlcyB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZSB0YWcsIGFuZCB0aGUgcHJveHkgZGVjaWRlcyAgd2hldGhlciB0aGUg bWFjaGluZXJ5IGlzIG5lZWRlZCBmb3IgYSBnaXZlbiBkaWFsb2cNCj4+IA0KPj4gICAgICAgVGhl IGxvZ2ljIGZvciBtYWtpbmcgdGhlIGRlY2lzaW9uIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIG1hY2hpbmVyeSBpcyBu ZWVkZWQgZm9yIGEgZGlhbG9nIHdvdWxkIGJlIGJhc2VkIG9uIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24sIGJ1dCBJ IGFzc3VtZSANCj4+ICAgICAgIGluIG1vc3QgY2FzZXMgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgdXNlZCBmb3IgU1VC L05PVCBkaWFsb2dzLg0KPg0KPiBBcmUgeW91IHByb3Bvc2luZyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGJlIGEgc2Vw YXJhdGUgZmVhdHVyZSB0YWcgZm9yIHJlcXVlc3RpbmcgaW4tZGlhbG9nIHN1cHBvcnQ/DQo+DQo+ IFRoaXMgaXMgc291bmRpbmcgbGlrZSBhIHVzZSBjYXNlIGZvciBlaXRoZXIgUmVxdWlyZSdpbmcg YW4gb3B0aW9uIHRhZyBvciBhIGNhbGxlci1wcmVmLiBTaW5jZSB0aGUgVUEgcHJvYmFibHkgY2Fu J3QgZnVuY3Rpb24gd2l0aG91dA0KPiB0aGlzIHRoZSBvcHRpb24gdGFnIHNlZW1zIHByZWZlcnJl ZC4NCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGUgZWFzaWVzdCBzb2x1dGlvbiBpcyB0byBzaW1wbHkgc2F5IHRoYXQs IGZvciBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24gdXNhZ2UgZGlhbG9ncywgdGhlIHB1c2ggcHJveHkgbXVzdCBpbnNl cnQgaXRzZWxmIGluIHRoZSBkaWFsb2cgcGF0aCwgYW5kIHRoZSBVQSBtdXN0IHByb3ZpZGUgKHVz aW5nIGEgZmVhdHVyZSB0YWcpIHRoZSBQUklEIGluIHRoZSBpbml0aWFsIHJlcXVlc3QvcmVzcG9u c2UgZm9yIHRoZSBkaWFsb2cuIFRoZW4sIHdoZW5ldmVyIHRoZSBwdXNoIHByb3h5IHJlY2VpdmVz IGFuIGluYm91bmQgbWlkLWRpYWxvZyByZXF1ZXN0IChlLmcuLCBOT1RJRlkpLCBpdCByZXF1ZXN0 cyBhIHB1c2ggbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIHRvd2FyZHMgdGhlIFVBICh1bmxlc3MgaXQgaGFzIG90aGVy LCB1bnNwZWNpZmllZCwgbWVhbnMgdG8gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIHRoYXQgdGhlIFVBIGlzIGF3YWtlKS4N Cg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0K From nobody Thu Sep 6 14:12:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFE4130E7F for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:12:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=standardstrack.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HRzzP0uVXMFZ for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz221.inmotionhosting.com (biz221.inmotionhosting.com [23.235.223.233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 744E7130F1C for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:12:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=standardstrack.com; s=default; h=To:Date:Message-Id:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3h/DVhtPEe1Ixqm01uK3mm6SyD576LOpVZaAfpT2mII=; b=Dn73Xxa2rSeZ3UtD72Da1CqhPQ ytBD/CWVtB5SQSb64rhVtnFmmnWGcNQLCwxZEuqNImCGv1Ik3c1n2Lbxr8twpUSBc+xc6KZ4tRvOL qBo4MiwbRski8mXHsejidN075AMzVFjalrFLiwL3pS0/vY5FjAIMJ573lwqhhL7OQWrw=; Received: from [174.205.7.233] (port=3305 helo=[192.168.43.104]) by biz221.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fy1Ze-00DPV2-KW for sipcore@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 14:12:28 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A9F3AE6C-0937-4464-9851-E1A373DB19B3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 17:12:19 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz221.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Authenticated-Sender: biz221.inmotionhosting.com: eburger@standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 21:12:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A9F3AE6C-0937-4464-9851-E1A373DB19B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, making = them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential for = abuse. I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to build = secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in that = space that we can piggy-back on. Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to = contact to remediate blocked calls. My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful and = there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the = implementation base which should be a good thing for us. Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and instead = create new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go = the SIP header route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80= =99s as they have to be secured with a traceable signature authority = chain. --Apple-Mail=_A9F3AE6C-0937-4464-9851-E1A373DB19B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfEc/N7T7IfiAuDEHDDCGh758rskFAluRmDMACgkQDDCGh758 rsn90w//fz0Z/mbap/pCvYHLE2WDnXR65ybNDaXMzb6lSN8Iej3Llc2bcrKxqldy 19zJTVgpszB7mLLE1G5t61tr4CjTr0ZuX1fpAvzEFjE3CRmfxLeSgjV1My9ErSZq r2kwMh/OlAVfwW9nyjhwpU2KeeTUF+4Y4vha1tZGT5+Eu08u8T4BWTrkImwafLPv S5EQhO9yCLUPGwgGfCi2dOKlV+GfgqXZuK8oxwvReVHszIgHbsSvA6b8JTa9zHNY C6a70xUUvEJpDJLa8JwYxGXsVxakdb8H1CHzORpqM5SeJeMX7Bkmm7342mtSP0Ip PFdsc7/KfQQBAYGiACTX1/wUtpPeAnVUn8Pz/RDivJJl5GXRnZa0+kUuJn1lpnRJ Q58Be6M5Yandb2aV7DOXovtL1kQrocxtred8k58TfLoGSo2vVCfc8p30huJqxkB3 Q35oy6PtCibCWlpdl56gJfXx6VnXkj+ChEaeK/PKuJfacDMO7kfjq6WPI8SGbieU ksqSeQcBphrbKw3EZZ2DsCgShCybtgghTwjRgaXQvhAZw7VL/P6rATdzOHlUCE7E 71B+Dd4rjxxljKJYhtpJuipuCkGxmzG4XVw2UedYqUAVsEnxRf6NLFSzG+eCVXlf rBVEsnPnAxEZPc7DBCh0M6RA+jnssPAMlpctEwK2y8NajMUQGD0= =RImp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_A9F3AE6C-0937-4464-9851-E1A373DB19B3-- From nobody Thu Sep 6 14:26:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C290B130E7F for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=shockey.us Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z4CHcho3nnDW for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.23.142]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B79FC130DCF for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw14.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.14]) by gproxy4.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8341D175B08 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 15:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box462.bluehost.com ([74.220.219.62]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id y1mmfngDdvdTuy1mmfMA2V; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:25:56 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-transfer-encoding:Content-type:Mime-version:In-Reply-To :References:Message-ID:To:From:Subject:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=s+KtWpoI0C6ZE1Km+IINi8n0GYMqlM8LIllMkOp4Qg4=; b=lHBgFzhwUIaDA0FHBGcJorN4Ro zsMEeVeuNwRspzsBMsEUTYiVSKnayr3OkyKikmxsAfXcFlzf702LQ6Mf49POSUqCJkkLdO2Aptwfp 2OsWSGOCSUm6OHAjUeCrHwS7K; Received: from pool-108-56-135-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([108.56.135.188]:51396 helo=[192.168.1.156]) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fy1ml-0048tz-T8; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:25:56 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 17:25:54 -0400 From: Richard Shockey To: Eric Burger , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard References: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <8BB74098-F137-4091-8541-C0DB196DAACE@standardstrack.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box462.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - shockey.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 108.56.135.188 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1fy1ml-0048tz-T8 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-108-56-135-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([192.168.1.156]) [108.56.135.188]:51396 X-Source-Auth: richard+shockey.us X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: c2hvY2tleXU7c2hvY2tleXU7Ym94NDYyLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] sipcore-rejected open issue: vCard X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 21:25:59 -0000 Eric I'm 100% with you on this. Fix VCard. I can also think of several oth= er potential uses such as Authenticated Identity via PASSPORT towards a NGN = CNAM etc. We looked at this in the SIP Forum ATIS NNI and may take it up i= n the future. This is an excellent idea.=20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 9/6/18, 5:12 PM, "sipcore on behalf of Eric Burger" wrote: I realized that vCards have no integrity protection whatsoever, making = them a questionable vehicle for something that has a potential for abuse. =20 I checked with the RAI ADs and calext chairs, and one option is to buil= d secure vCards. There is some independent work already begun in that space = that we can piggy-back on. =20 Another alternative is to add new headers to SIP to convey whom to cont= act to remediate blocked calls. =20 My inclination is to fix vCards, as that would be generally useful and = there is already some modest demand for it. It would broaden the implementat= ion base which should be a good thing for us. =20 Does anyone on the list *NOT* want to go the vCard route and instead cr= eate new SIP headers? Does anyone have a better idea? Note if we go the SIP = header route, these new headers would need corresponding JWT=E2=80=99s as they hav= e to be secured with a traceable signature authority chain. _______________________________________________ sipcore mailing list sipcore@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore =20 From nobody Fri Sep 7 13:50:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC526130DDB; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 13:50:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GYgCqsdHkXsl; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0C312F18C; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 13:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.95] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w87KoZXO036963 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:50:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.95] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CD151BA0-A26A-478C-80E4-F0F4186F0179"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:50:33 -0500 Cc: sipcore@ietf.org To: draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter.all@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 20:50:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CD151BA0-A26A-478C-80E4-F0F4186F0179 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, This is my AD Evaluation of = draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03. The draft is mostly in good shape. I have a small number of substantive = comments, and some editorial comments. I would like to resolve the = substantive comments prior to IETF Last Call. Thanks! Ben. ------------------------------- Substantive Comments: - Is it possible to add a short explanation of =E2=80=9Csession case=E2=80= =9D? Right now, the draft refers to 5502, but that RFC calls out to = 29.228 for the definition. I think reviewers are going to find the lack = of a =E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D definition confusing; most will probably = not drill all the way down to 29.228. I=E2=80=99m not asking for a lot = of detail, but I think a few sentences are in order. I recognize that = RFC 5502 did not do this, but I think that is a deficiency in that RFC. =C2=A74, step 3: Likewise, I don=E2=80=99t think the average non-3GPP IETF reader will = understand =E2=80=9Cfilter criteria=E2=80=9D in this context. Can there = be a few sentences describing it? (such as in 5502?) =C2=A75, - first bullet: Is the real change that the field MUST NOT contain = _different_ values, or it MUST NOT contain _multiple_ values? - 2nd bullet: It=E2=80=99s not clear to me what is guidance about 5502 = is being offered here; this sounds more like a disclaimer about things = being out of scope for this draft. Does it really belong in the bullet = list? =C2=A77, updates to the P-Served-User header field parameters: Why do the sescase and regstate lines need to be updated to include = RFCXXXX? =C2=A79: =E2=80=9C... it is important to ensure that the parameter has = not been added to the SIP message by an unauthorized SIP entity.=E2=80=9D Can you say something more concrete here? How would one go about doing = that? Should an AS or S-CSCF remove any cdiv parameters that it did not = insert? What if a client were to insert the parameter? Editorial Comments: =C2=A71.2: - Is =E2=80=9Callocates=E2=80=9D the correct word for assigning an = S-CSCF to a user? In my mind, =E2=80=9Callocate=E2=80=9D connotes = reserving a resource, perhaps in a way that makes it unavailable to = others. Perhaps =E2=80=9Cassigns=E2=80=9D would be better? - 2nd paragraph: s/ =E2=80=9Callocated for=E2=80=9D / =E2=80=9Callocated to=E2=80=9D. s/ =E2=80=9CHSS (Home Subscriber Server)=E2=80=9D / =E2=80=9CHome = Subscriber Server (HSS)=E2=80=9D Please expand AS on first use. =C2=A71.3: - " first considered as a terminating session case=E2=80=9D - Considered = by what? Also, is =E2=80=9Cconsidered=E2=80=9D the correct term? Perhaps = something more concrete like =E2=80=9Ctreated=E2=80=9D would make more = sense? =C2=A73: " inside a Trust Domain [RFC3324] for P-Served-User header = field.=E2=80=9D Missing article before =E2=80=9CP-Served-User=E2=80=9D =C2=A74, - step 3: " It then sends to the AS=E2=80=9D I suggest =E2=80=9Csends the request to the AS=E2=80=9D - step 6: I suggest striking the word =E2=80=9Cspecifically=E2=80=9D =C2=A77: The IANA considerations should either be the 2nd to last or = last section. (IANA considerations and Security considerations should be = the last two sections.) --Apple-Mail=_CD151BA0-A26A-478C-80E4-F0F4186F0179 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAluS5JkACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A3wNhAAqgk7r8DWRjOdlSnTR0xzocJcX9pGE/DLZhlVhfQPro+eX2Crkrzeftch lmMBKBtwCfRqm6Jd9Esua0uGTb/x/GKZoO68oVlBuL+jUDCu/eXA9Rj2uVvVrT0B i8OUpXnTGoKmjeBObS8AkA6h1P7L0OfxmfLoB8qAq0BzDFGdwJ2RMpRM8vHeKhRI bKcgNSPYTu5KA7rNTjCaHtoUbHiCJ0JEEypgnlouMirncC21+jyhw6ZvBU2P/eF3 9Sg9c553PCbiGfsy7Tcs0/l3bMc2RVmyxW1pE56f322tYHRuU7QKljAMv+QyuqBV v/3mvFw7ZnPa7fgjiEuT8HTQdd0EmMk02YC3i9fHhC9tZvCZuFSoIYo3JaEcWUiI yHxZJ8a8INEI3L+4hQT9NiicPJBNLZOE4UKhb76ia4b8axMh0E/YKngOhlVcJ709 YmwzWyhfWg5EGakGP77kWMFDLPtFWiD04+qpZNRE+E4fCn831G/7p/R6UFOb3goi wDLVq/oV/xWyVCDvcDtbMm6KgYSgtsnI9ahtrF0r7eQt4WS87MYXDvpbDKtSYvWq gCey51l70P0HAs/gHKkNN4ZnsEXHKY11YtTEGz0LX39z8Mt3BnYYWWwkn9MbFc3h VqT1dki5l6GDMXRFvvWw+OPg+4f+8ccQg8op9Y4KQLlkm1yNUgI= =nyN+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CD151BA0-A26A-478C-80E4-F0F4186F0179-- From nobody Sat Sep 8 09:45:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DB7130DF0 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pp_QiW2hOIjr for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 09:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC5512F1AB for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-31dff70000000c39-78-5b93fca94c27 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 00.D0.03129.9ACF39B5; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w88GjQVT026328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:45:27 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <661dd264-7b2f-1fa1-9229-7461426f7f6f@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:45:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLvqz+Rog6sbFSwuzDzMaDHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8+nqVzWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlbHvbw1iwQbJi3hmrBsZG kS5GDg4JAROJnmuaXYxcHEICO5gklszczgLhPGCSOP58GhtIkbBAgkT7h0oQU0QgSeJYd0kX IycHs4CcxNrlu9ghyq+xSWxvWMoGkmAT0JKYc+g/C4jNK2Avsf/MHmYQm0VAReLiqiVgcVGB NIm/nUsYIWoEJU7OfAIW5xSwkXhx9z0rxAIziXmbHzJD2OISt57MZ4Kw5SW2v53DPIFRYBaS 9llIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRrnEnNJc3dzEzJzi1GTd4uTEvLzUIl0TvdzMEr3UlNJNjJBw5t/B 2LVe5hCjAAejEg9vQNmkaCHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivDn6k6OF+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFK cDArifCe/w6U401JrKxKLcqHSUlzsCiJ87Ka7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8K7/DdQo WJSanlqRlplTgpBm4uAEGc4DNLwIpIa3uCAxtzgzHSJ/itGYo+FC/yRmjj/vp05iFmLJy89L lRLnPQZSKgBSmlGaBzcNlpJeMYoDPSfMexOkigeYzuDmvQJaxQS0SlgPbFVJIkJKqoGxdP8d 9o4zMv9O171jsMqJ8f/v//jVoa1RrzqtP5zq2hypkMvmdZX1UbN3yMT11mzbQl59rr7OevJ0 /GUHP8efvmIrT0z6EufxMfjy/VvrHMxf37klF6C152Zt22X2Er4jTZExnBq/1ZWUVILyjXbu 23xC2f+KiZDXrWeb9m5iPM7OvJu/rHaREktxRqKhFnNRcSIAaIjZJiQDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2018 16:45:35 -0000 On 9/6/18 12:28 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>> It seems like there are two cases: >>>> >>>> - those that only require a notification for re-registration and >>>> out-of-dialog requests; >>>> >>>> - those that also require notification in the midst of *certain* long >>>> dialogs. >>>> >>>> Only for the 2nd case is a push proxy required on the dialog path. At >>>> the time of registration, it seems to be necessary to declare or >>>> negotiate with case this is. >>>> >>>> Things would be simpler if we could exclude one of those cases. Either >>>> by stating that the second case is not being addressed at all, or by >>>> stating that the machinery to support the second case must be present >>>> whether the UA needs it or not. >>> >>> There are two ways: >>> >>> 1) The UA indicates whether it needs the machinery for a given dialog, by including the feature tag in the initial request for the dialog >>> 2) The UA always includes the feature tag, and the proxy decides whether the machinery is needed for a given dialog >>> >>> The logic for making the decision whether the machinery is needed for a dialog would be based on configuration, but I assume >>> in most cases it would be used for SUB/NOT dialogs. >> >> Are you proposing that there be a separate feature tag for requesting in-dialog support? >> >> This is sounding like a use case for either Require'ing an option tag or a caller-pref. Since the UA probably can't function without >> this the option tag seems preferred. > > I think the easiest solution is to simply say that, for subscription usage dialogs, the push proxy must insert itself in the dialog path, and the UA must provide (using a feature tag) the PRID in the initial request/response for the dialog. Then, whenever the push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it requests a push notification towards the UA (unless it has other, unspecified, means to determine that the UA is awake). Currently there are two kinds of dialog usages: INVITE and SUBSCRIBE. In the discussion here there seems to be good use cases for needing push notifications for SUBSCRIBE usages. There was some suggestion of use cases in INVITE usages, perhaps not as compelling. In the case of SUBSCRIBE usages, the need may vary. Some (such as REFER) might be brief and not require push. It is the UAC that knows for sure. Are you proposing that whenever there is a push proxy on the out-of-dialog case that it decide on its own whether it will be needed for push support each time a dialog is established and use that as part of the decision whether to record-route? (And that this decision perhaps be based on subscribe vs invite?) Seems like it would be better for the need to be signaled to the push proxy by the UAC. Perhaps the presence of the PRID could be considered the signal. In any case, this needs some normative text to ensure that the PRID doesn't leak downstream of the push proxy. (This *almost* seems like a use case for Proxy-Require, but that would only work if the push proxy is always the first proxy on the path, and I don't think we can assume that.) Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Sep 8 12:01:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770CB130E59 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:01:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SQRKvEZhtpyq for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15F8F130E61 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1536433292; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=n3zHvP0ikadNSsXYHMviheUAyl4ZnQFxUhOZgsQeTNg=; b=gj32P8EwFT5rJerRZ4joUu2HRyEqO/h6WtnHq3Pvr4HdItZHe1rck5dvHJ2uGTUx CX77jSflbzVBD6GzJT7utkpcAey/CMHIuCxmhdbfZyMXiM2yaLt4JZgsHB5qyw8G aIzcTKC0+6hil19nEEf0UDGNPgJcQODqIvIvguOHUAw=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8ffff700000013ad-4b-5b941c8c1e11 Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.114]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 68.95.05037.C8C149B5; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 21:01:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 21:01:32 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 21:01:32 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgP//6naAgAA9mJD////3gIAAIsZwgAACWwCAAMmfAIAAV4cAgAAtWACAAw3WAIAAJOBA Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 19:01:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> <661dd264-7b2f-1fa1-9229-7461426f7f6f@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <661dd264-7b2f-1fa1-9229-7461426f7f6f@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7kW6PzJRog2srDS1WbDjAajHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8ff+ByWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBl3Fp/mK1ggn5F49w77A2M X3S7GDk5JARMJKZ03GDvYuTiEBI4yihx+up2ZgjnK6PEyxV9jBDOUkaJ73//MHUxcnCwCVhI dP/TBukWEfCWmDB/NRuIzSwgJ3H9w0YwW1ggQWL3yaesEDWJEk+n3mcFmSMiMI1RYknjSTaQ 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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A674130E45 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 14:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2U79YHPhLeX for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 14:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A7C130E42 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 14:01:51 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-0fdff700000033ca-6f-5b9438bd0556 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 08.F8.13258.DB8349B5; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 17:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w88L1lpG007508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 8 Sep 2018 17:01:48 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <4024B67A-661A-4DF1-836D-EED1C086626B@ericsson.com> <8fd890d0-7695-363d-8396-a43c81431ca8@alum.mit.edu> <10f57394fc2d417b9ad9fb5a81f4d397@ericsson.com> <67709136-c563-401f-d441-814b19105b22@alum.mit.edu> <8345e22f94f94e5e99381d47ab6bf86e@ericsson.com> <34F997A3-3207-4AD3-953A-56AA4510BD77@ericsson.com> <661dd264-7b2f-1fa1-9229-7461426f7f6f@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <86cff527-4ac2-fe57-21be-ae3445fccae9@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 17:01:47 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLvPYkq0wYR+UYsLMw8zWsy4MJXZ 4uuPTWwOzB6/vl5l81iy5CeTx60pBQHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZa99uZSuYpFbx8uQTtgbG JXJdjJwcEgImEntef2cHsYUEdjBJLJ2uC2E/YJKY1u7TxcjBISyQINH+oRLEFBFIkjjWXQJS wSwgJ7F2+S6gTi6g6n3sEvN7tzCDJNgEtCTmHPrPAmLzCthLXN+xE8xmEVCR+HXsDhuILSqQ JvG3cwkjRI2gxMmZT1hA5nMK2EgsvO4MMd9MYt7mh8wQtrjErSfzmSBseYntb+cwT2AUmIWk exaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKUS4xpzRXNzcxM6c4NVm3ODkxLy+1SNdQLzezRC81pXQTIySYeXYw flsnc4hRgINRiYf3BPeUaCHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivDn6k6OF+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFK cDArifCe/w6U401JrKxKLcqHSUlzsCiJ87Ka7I0SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2CycpwcChJ8N4zB9oj WJSanlqRlplTgpBm4uAEGc4DNLwXpIa3uCAxtzgzHSJ/itGYo+FC/yRmjj/vp05iFmLJy89L lRLnPWIGVCoAUppRmgc3DZaQXjGKAz0nzLsRZCAPMJnBzXsFtIoJaJWwHsgfxSWJCCmpBsby s6tLYrVXpf95sLjnU+7nV5J3fS9FdFaZLNmYucvneHrcZEbXGYlTOPs5wyN2tDMrSsz5ZNZ8 K6Y05pxussJM1mjvSTnPI3kW3Qi4MfN/M/c/AaHgxQrvV5k9ucetxpvc49KntPLxi8frd+zW OW7530AsOVOJzeTX1MqlW3W5fRIWXlPniVBiKc5INNRiLipOBADlviHOIwMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2018 21:01:54 -0000 On 9/8/18 3:01 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>>> It seems like there are two cases: >>>>>> >>>>>> - those that only require a notification for re-registration and >>>>>> out-of-dialog requests; >>>>>> >>>>>> - those that also require notification in the midst of *certain* >>>>>> long dialogs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Only for the 2nd case is a push proxy required on the dialog path. >>>>>> At the time of registration, it seems to be necessary to declare or >>>>>> negotiate with case this is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Things would be simpler if we could exclude one of those cases. >>>>>> Either by stating that the second case is not being addressed at >>>>>> all, or by stating that the machinery to support the second case >>>>>> must be present whether the UA needs it or not. >>>>> >>>>> There are two ways: >>>>> >>>>> 1) The UA indicates whether it needs the machinery for a given dialog, by including the feature tag in the initial request for the dialog >>>>> 2) The UA always includes the feature tag, and the proxy decides whether the machinery is needed for a given dialog >>>>> >>>>> The logic for making the decision whether the machinery is needed for a dialog would be based on configuration, but I assume >>>>> in most cases it would be used for SUB/NOT dialogs. >>>> >>>> Are you proposing that there be a separate feature tag for requesting in-dialog support? >>>> >>>> This is sounding like a use case for either Require'ing an option tag >>>> or a caller-pref. Since the UA probably can't function without this the option tag seems preferred. >>> >>> I think the easiest solution is to simply say that, for subscription usage dialogs, the push proxy must insert >>> itself in the dialog path, and the UA must provide (using a feature tag) the PRID in the initial request/response >>> for the dialog. Then, whenever the push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it requests >>> a push notification towards the UA (unless it has other, unspecified, means to determine that the UA is awake). >>> >>> Currently there are two kinds of dialog usages: INVITE and SUBSCRIBE. In the discussion here there seems to be good >>> use cases for needing push notifications for SUBSCRIBE usages. There was some suggestion of use cases in INVITE usages, >>> perhaps not as compelling. In the case of SUBSCRIBE usages, the need may vary. Some (such as REFER) might be brief and >>> not require push. It is the UAC that knows for sure. >> >> Are you proposing that whenever there is a push proxy on the out-of-dialog case that it decide on its own whether it will be >> needed for push support each time a dialog is established and use that as part of the decision whether to record-route? (And >> that this decision perhaps be based on subscribe vs invite?) > > Yes. > > In the deployments I am aware of, the push proxy will anyway insert itself in the dialog path, but one can of course not guarantee that will always be the case. > >> Seems like it would be better for the need to be signaled to the push proxy by the UAC. Perhaps the presence of the PRID could be considered the signal. > > That would work in cases where the UA sends the SUBSCRIBE request. > > But, in case where a SUBSCRIBE is sent towards the UA, the UA will send the PRID in the response - but the proxy needs to make the decision whether to insert itself in the dialog before that. This is theoretically an issue, but is it so in practice? When would a device that needs push notifications be the UAS of a long lived SUBSCRIBE? Perhaps this might be the case for an INVITE. (E.g. in a 3pcc case.) That might need more consideration. >> In any case, this needs some normative text to ensure that the PRID doesn't leak downstream of the push proxy. > > There needs to be text saying that the proxy MUST remove the PRID. And text saying that it MUST record-route when is sees a PRID in the dialog initiating request. >> (This *almost* seems like a use case for Proxy-Require, but that would only work if the push proxy is always the first >> proxy on the path, and I don't think we can assume that.) > > No. There are cases where the push proxy will be co-located with the home proxy, which means there will be may be other proxies between. > > Obviously, the push proxy will now need to store the pn- parameters, and associate the subscribe usage dialog with them, so that it can request the push notification whenever it receives the mid-dialog NOTIFY. And, it needs to monitor the lifetime of the registration, so it knows when it can discard the parameters. > > For initial requests sent towards the UA, the push proxy does not need to store anything, as the pn- parameters will be present in the R-URI (inserted by the home proxy). Thanks, Paul From nobody Sun Sep 9 08:27:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A8A128CF3 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 08:27:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J-j4Fa8puNKR for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 08:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net 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ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 20.32.05037.FCB359B5; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 17:27:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 17:27:11 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 9 Sep 2018 17:27:11 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The instance id approach Thread-Index: AQHUQ1FsFZoblkO4O0Ss+5DjBnAgD6TetGOAgAAku/CAAGi+AIAAf1UAgAA7xoCAAdgUgP//6naAgAA9mJD////3gIAAIsZwgAACWwCAAMmfAIAAV4cAgAAtWACAAw3WAIAAJOBAgAAiwICAAUg10A== Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:27:11 +0000 Message-ID: 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:28:45 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:28:45 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: SIPCORE CC: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID Thread-Index: AdRNuKd4UKSZJa8LSFyCfOKF8bHz+A== Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:28:45 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7hW6Lz7xogx3TJSxWbDjAajHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHv8ff+ByWPJkp9MHremFAQwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlrFg+kbVguULF33l7WBoY 50l1MXJySAiYSOx+c4Cpi5GLQ0jgKKPE9cdT2CGcb4wSO58tYoNwljFKvGtZw9rFyMHBJmAh 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I put everything in a dedicated section. If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. ---- X. Subscription Dialog Considerations when a UA creates a subscription dialog [RFC6665], there may be a long peri= od between mid-dialog SIP NOTIFY request. During that time the UA might get suspended, and needs to be awake= n in order to receive such NOTIFY request. However, unlike an initial request for a dialog, the N= OTIFY request will not contain the pn- SIP URI parameters needed by the proxy to request a push notificati= on towards the UA. Instead, the proxy need to support a mechanism, where it stores the information needed to requ= est a push notification towards the UA,=20 and when the proxy receives the initial SUBSCRIBE request for the subscript= ion dialog it needs to associate the=20 subscription dialog with that information. This section describes the UA- a= nd proxy procedures for such mechanism. The procedures in this section are applied in addition to the generic proce= dures for the UA and the proxy. X.1. SIP UA Beahvior X.1.1. SUBSCRIBE When the UA sends a SIP SUBSCRIBE request (initial or subscription refresh)= , if the UA wants to receive push notification=20 requests when the proxy receives NOTIFY requests addressed towards the UA, = the UA MUST include a '+sip.prid' Contact header=20 field parameter in the SUBSCRIBE request. The UA MUST include the same para= meter value that it included in the pn-prid SIP URI parameter of the last REGISTER request. X.2. SIP Proxy Behavior X.2.1. REGISTER When the UA receives a REGISTER request from the UA, the proxy MUST store t= he information (the pn- SIP URI parameters)=20 needed to request push notifications associated with the registration towar= ds the UA, and use the pn-prid SIP URI parameter=20 value as key to access the data. The proxy MUST store the information until= the registration expires. As describe in section 5.2,=20 the proxy needs to be able to retrieve the registration state information f= rom the registrar using some mechanism.=20 X.2.2 SUBSCRIBE When the proxy receives an initial SUBSCRIBE request for a subscription dia= log from a UA, the request=20 contains a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameters, and the proxy has s= tored the information needed=20 in order to request push notifications towards the UA [ref-to-reg-section],= the proxy MUST store the=20 subscription dialog information, including the '+sip.prid' Contact header f= ield parameter value. In addition, the proxy MUST add a Record-Route header field to the request and add itsel= f to the dialog route [RFC3261] before forwarding the request. If the proxy receives a mid-dialog SUBSCRIBE subscription refresh request f= rom the UA, and the request contains a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameter with an updated parameter valu= e, the proxy MUST update the value in the stored dialog information. X.2.3. NOTIFY When the proxy receives a mid-dialog NOTIFY request addressed towards the U= A, the proxy has stored the associated dialog information [ref-to-sub-section], and the proxy is able to retrieve = the stored information needed to request a push notification towards the UA [ref-to-reg-equest], the proxy MUST requ= est a push notification towards the UA. Once the proxy has received the triggered REGISTER request, and the associa= ted successful response, the proxy can forward the NOTIFY request towards the UA. Otherwise the proxy MUST reject the NOTIFY request and send a 480 (Temporar= ily Unavailable) error response. As described in [section 5.3.2], while waiting for the push notification re= quest to succeed, and the associated REGISTER request to arrive from the SIP UA, the= proxy needs=20 to take into consideration that the transaction associated with the NOTIFY = request will=20 eventually time out at the sender of the request (UAC), and the sender will= consider the transaction a failure. From nobody Sun Sep 16 19:15:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731CE130DEF for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.48 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.48 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZuAQFjXGhFDR for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CCAA130DED for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutabilis-2.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w8H2FNaF098449 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:15:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be mutabilis-2.local To: SIPCORE From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: <183caf0a-7c23-0684-99ea-272981bb2831@nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:15:23 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] meeting in Bangkok? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 02:15:28 -0000 Please let the chairs know by Thursday, Sept 20, if you have anything you want to present in Bangkok. Otherwise, we'll skip the meeting session. Thanks! 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ab512f24-2482-4930-a760-08d61c6bf920 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Sep 2018 07:05:38.5780 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bde4dffc-4b60-4cf6-8b04-a5eeb25f5c4f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: FRXPR01MB0133 X-OriginatorOrg: telekom.de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:06:29 -0000 Hi Christer, Thank you for Updating the draft. We see this work as important since we have still problems with implementat= ions of the session timer and a lot of discussion with different SP and Ven= dors. What we realized is that the definition of the "Initial Session Refresh Re= quest" is not clear. You may interpret it out of the whole RFC but not from the definition.=20 The definition states: Initial Session Refresh Request: The first session refresh request sent with a particular Call-ID value. This does not state if it is the Initial INVITE requesting the session time= r or if it is the first INVITE refreshing the session? The Session Refresh Request is defined as: Session Refresh Request: An INVITE or UPDATE request processed according to the rules of this specification. If the request generates a 2xx response, the session expiration is increased to the current time plus the session interval obtained from the response.=20 It states that the session expiration is increased. So what is now increase= d? Is it also the initial INVITE response with the first session expire val= ue. >From my point of view it would help when we change the definition section t= o: Initial Session Refresh Request: The first session refresh request sent with a particular Call-ID value. i.e. initial INVITE sending at = minimum a "supported timer" which is answered by an 200 OK with a negotiate= d session timer. Question is if is only my view or does others have the same view? Thank you and Best Regards Roland =20 > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. August 2018 12:38 > An: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: sipcore@ietf.org > Betreff: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.tx= t >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of t= he > IETF. >=20 > Title : Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Session Timer= Glare Handling > Author : Christer Holmberg > Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2018-08-30 >=20 > Abstract: > This document updates RFC 4028, by clarifying the procedures for > negotiating usage of the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) session > timer mechansim, in order to avoid a race condition where both > endpoints trigger simultaneous negotiations. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-rac= e- > 02 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-= 02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Mon Sep 17 06:46:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BF2130E41 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 06:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9nDkQl45BJl for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 06:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A86A130DC9 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 06:46:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:46:37 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:46:36 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: SIPCORE CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID - The pull request Thread-Index: AQHUTozalPHj7bQndkSgehbYJIAS6Q== Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:46:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <970280250E26D942A0CAE4E4E327312E@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9Utd2w/xogwurZCxmXJjKbPH1xyY2 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SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52_KkmGOqpyV for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5766D130E14 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:03:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-017ff70000007bb2-b9-5b9fc23e5c76 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id BD.B4.31666.E32CF9B5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8HF3PCc028783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:03:26 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:03:25 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprEKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqGt/aH60wZG5PBYXZh5mtJhxYSqz xdcfm9gcmD1+fb3K5rFkyU8mj1tTCgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyHv6fz1zQrFZx4tgMxgbG M3JdjJwcEgImEm+7upi6GLk4hAR2MElc3nCEFSQhJPCQSeLYQzcQW1ggWuJ0xzvmLkYODhEg +9tSEZAws4CqxPQz7cwQ5dYSnSs/soPYbAJaEnMO/WcBsXkF7CX6lx8Bs1mA6vsX7garERVI k/jbuYQRokZQ4uTMJ2A1nAI2Evdbu1gg5ptJzNv8kBnCFpe49WQ+E4QtL7H97RzmCYwCs5C0 z0LSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYxyiXmlObq5iZm5hSnJusWJyfm5aUW6Zrq5WaW6KWmlG5ihAS04A7G GSflDjEKcDAq8fD+WDQ/Wog1say4MvcQoyQHk5Iob2wmUIgvKT+lMiOxOCO+qDQntfgQowQH s5IILzMfUI43JbGyKrUoHyYlzcGiJM7LbLI3SkggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCYrw8GhJMG7+ABQo2BR anpqRVpmTglCmomDE2Q4D9BwbZAa3uKCxNzizHSI/ClGY46GC/2TmDn+vJ86iVmIJS8/L1VK nFccpFQApDSjNA9uGiwpvWIUB3pOmPc4SBUPMKHBzXsFtIoJaFXGhjkgq0oSEVJSDYyiqSJn RDcbuyzsTz3H9OIPq3llc9D/CaUzpnSyyb56bGV9xHjL2bfvBJNtlm/UcjggzZQopv1kT+DG Y9uuJa72U1t30GByRbaMHfdWubTXbpv+xir4Je1xac2zYjD33c32ODtyxkHGJ9My/3BdiFtx 14W5QH6d+2Zb0UCBtnnvHjolPnhUW6TEUpyRaKjFXFScCAD6SBC5JQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:03:32 -0000 Christer, On 9/16/18 8:28 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. > > I put everything in a dedicated section. > > If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. I have one concern about this: The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs. It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more consideration. Thanks, Paul > ---- > > X. Subscription Dialog Considerations > > when a UA creates a subscription dialog [RFC6665], there may be a long period between mid-dialog SIP NOTIFY > request. During that time the UA might get suspended, and needs to be awaken in order to receive > such NOTIFY request. However, unlike an initial request for a dialog, the NOTIFY request will not contain > the pn- SIP URI parameters needed by the proxy to request a push notification towards the UA. Instead, the proxy > need to support a mechanism, where it stores the information needed to request a push notification towards the UA, > and when the proxy receives the initial SUBSCRIBE request for the subscription dialog it needs to associate the > subscription dialog with that information. This section describes the UA- and proxy procedures for such mechanism. > > The procedures in this section are applied in addition to the generic procedures for the UA and the proxy. > > X.1. SIP UA Beahvior > > X.1.1. SUBSCRIBE > > When the UA sends a SIP SUBSCRIBE request (initial or subscription refresh), if the UA wants to receive push notification > requests when the proxy receives NOTIFY requests addressed towards the UA, the UA MUST include a '+sip.prid' Contact header > field parameter in the SUBSCRIBE request. The UA MUST include the same parameter value that it included in the pn-prid SIP URI > parameter of the last REGISTER request. > > X.2. SIP Proxy Behavior > > X.2.1. REGISTER > > When the UA receives a REGISTER request from the UA, the proxy MUST store the information (the pn- SIP URI parameters) > needed to request push notifications associated with the registration towards the UA, and use the pn-prid SIP URI parameter > value as key to access the data. The proxy MUST store the information until the registration expires. As describe in section 5.2, > the proxy needs to be able to retrieve the registration state information from the registrar using some mechanism. > > X.2.2 SUBSCRIBE > > When the proxy receives an initial SUBSCRIBE request for a subscription dialog from a UA, the request > contains a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameters, and the proxy has stored the information needed > in order to request push notifications towards the UA [ref-to-reg-section], the proxy MUST store the > subscription dialog information, including the '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameter value. In addition, > the proxy MUST add a Record-Route header field to the request and add itself to the dialog route [RFC3261] > before forwarding the request. > > If the proxy receives a mid-dialog SUBSCRIBE subscription refresh request from the UA, and the request contains > a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameter with an updated parameter value, the proxy MUST update the value > in the stored dialog information. > > X.2.3. NOTIFY > > When the proxy receives a mid-dialog NOTIFY request addressed towards the UA, the proxy has stored the associated > dialog information [ref-to-sub-section], and the proxy is able to retrieve the stored information needed to request > a push notification towards the UA [ref-to-reg-equest], the proxy MUST request a push notification towards the UA. > Once the proxy has received the triggered REGISTER request, and the associated successful response, the proxy can > forward the NOTIFY request towards the UA. > > Otherwise the proxy MUST reject the NOTIFY request and send a 480 (Temporarily Unavailable) error response. > > As described in [section 5.3.2], while waiting for the push notification request to > succeed, and the associated REGISTER request to arrive from the SIP UA, the proxy needs > to take into consideration that the transaction associated with the NOTIFY request will > eventually time out at the sender of the request (UAC), and the sender will consider the > transaction a failure. > > > > > From nobody Mon Sep 17 12:05:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02275130E99 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mi52vzsU9sG8 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE791130EF1 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:05:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537211123; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qj4MO7zRbQi/SVi5PEUcfwDap3FehaSEeitqpBB/l9s=; b=XVrBhMOCB7GHm0nPwJNvT8pwCOnzD774tR7mrhstJ4Q2rb9U3ZUNuGeYP07x2DXs J/Fr8lVhkA6fh0TK8a7m3ga7YvEZF2MCtT8+6eQ3SSuaptZCKeL2AC0PeyXZh42D UZgcBu/PqovYKHA5D9q9Brk6FlpEE76S77vW6qKlpqM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-395ff70000003197-2d-5b9ffaf3fc05 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BF.26.12695.3FAFF9B5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:05:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:05:23 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:05:23 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID Thread-Index: AdRNuKd4UKSZJa8LSFyCfOKF8bHz+AAziomAAAyWsrA= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:05:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: 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[209.85.210.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23-v6sm21255171pff.9.2018.09.17.12.11.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id j26-v6so7988487pfi.10 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:8f17:: with SMTP id n23-v6mr22970280pgd.131.1537211483241; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:11:22 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: Christer Holmberg , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000674104057615f037" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:11:27 -0000 --000000000000674104057615f037 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Christer, It also looks like '+sip.prid' contact header parameter will remain in the contact header and will be visible to the remote party receiving the subscription. This means it can be used for fingerprinting and client tracking which can have privacy implications. I think the right solution here is to unbundle long duration dialog support. Push proxy should allocate an additional ID during the registration process, not related to PRID, which is unique for the push notification proxy and allocated in a way that preserve client privacy, such as a cryptographically random function (analogous to private GRUU). This ID should uniquely identify the push notification parameters and can be used to associate SUBSCRIBE dialog with these parameters. The presence of this ID in registration response would indicate that proxy supports long duration dialogs where UA can suspend itself. If this ID is not present, suspending UA during long duration dialogs, such as SUBSCRIBE is not supported. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > Christer, > > On 9/16/18 8:28 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. >> >> I put everything in a dedicated section. >> >> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. >> > > I have one concern about this: > > The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the scope > of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had to be unique > among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if we assume that a > given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for subscription dialogs > expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique among all dialogs > managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs. > > It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs since > the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more > consideration. > > Thanks, > Paul > > > ---- >> >> X. Subscription Dialog Considerations >> >> when a UA creates a subscription dialog [RFC6665], there may be a long >> period between mid-dialog SIP NOTIFY >> request. During that time the UA might get suspended, and needs to be >> awaken in order to receive >> such NOTIFY request. However, unlike an initial request for a dialog, the >> NOTIFY request will not contain >> the pn- SIP URI parameters needed by the proxy to request a push >> notification towards the UA. Instead, the proxy >> need to support a mechanism, where it stores the information needed to >> request a push notification towards the UA, >> and when the proxy receives the initial SUBSCRIBE request for the >> subscription dialog it needs to associate the >> subscription dialog with that information. This section describes the UA- >> and proxy procedures for such mechanism. >> >> The procedures in this section are applied in addition to the generic >> procedures for the UA and the proxy. >> >> X.1. SIP UA Beahvior >> >> X.1.1. SUBSCRIBE >> >> When the UA sends a SIP SUBSCRIBE request (initial or subscription >> refresh), if the UA wants to receive push notification >> requests when the proxy receives NOTIFY requests addressed towards the >> UA, the UA MUST include a '+sip.prid' Contact header >> field parameter in the SUBSCRIBE request. The UA MUST include the same >> parameter value that it included in the pn-prid SIP URI >> parameter of the last REGISTER request. >> >> X.2. SIP Proxy Behavior >> >> X.2.1. REGISTER >> >> When the UA receives a REGISTER request from the UA, the proxy MUST store >> the information (the pn- SIP URI parameters) >> needed to request push notifications associated with the registration >> towards the UA, and use the pn-prid SIP URI parameter >> value as key to access the data. The proxy MUST store the information >> until the registration expires. As describe in section 5.2, >> the proxy needs to be able to retrieve the registration state information >> from the registrar using some mechanism. >> >> X.2.2 SUBSCRIBE >> >> When the proxy receives an initial SUBSCRIBE request for a subscription >> dialog from a UA, the request >> contains a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameters, and the proxy has >> stored the information needed >> in order to request push notifications towards the UA >> [ref-to-reg-section], the proxy MUST store the >> subscription dialog information, including the '+sip.prid' Contact header >> field parameter value. In addition, >> the proxy MUST add a Record-Route header field to the request and add >> itself to the dialog route [RFC3261] >> before forwarding the request. >> >> If the proxy receives a mid-dialog SUBSCRIBE subscription refresh request >> from the UA, and the request contains >> a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameter with an updated parameter >> value, the proxy MUST update the value >> in the stored dialog information. >> >> X.2.3. NOTIFY >> >> When the proxy receives a mid-dialog NOTIFY request addressed towards the >> UA, the proxy has stored the associated >> dialog information [ref-to-sub-section], and the proxy is able to >> retrieve the stored information needed to request >> a push notification towards the UA [ref-to-reg-equest], the proxy MUST >> request a push notification towards the UA. >> Once the proxy has received the triggered REGISTER request, and the >> associated successful response, the proxy can >> forward the NOTIFY request towards the UA. >> >> Otherwise the proxy MUST reject the NOTIFY request and send a 480 >> (Temporarily Unavailable) error response. >> >> As described in [section 5.3.2], while waiting for the push notification >> request to >> succeed, and the associated REGISTER request to arrive from the SIP UA, >> the proxy needs >> to take into consideration that the transaction associated with the >> NOTIFY request will >> eventually time out at the sender of the request (UAC), and the sender >> will consider the >> transaction a failure. >> >> >> >> >> >> > --000000000000674104057615f037 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Christer,

It also looks like=C2=A0=C2= =A0'+sip.prid' contact header parameter will re= main in the contact header and will be visible to the remote party receivin= g the subscription. This means it can be used for fingerprinting and client= tracking which can have privacy implications.

I think the right solution here is to unbundle long duration d= ialog support. Push proxy should allocate an additional ID during the regis= tration process, not related to PRID, which is unique for the push notifica= tion proxy and allocated in a way that preserve client privacy, such as a c= ryptographically random=C2=A0function (analogous to private GRUU). This ID = should uniquely identify the push notification parameters and can be used t= o associate SUBSCRIBE dialog with these parameters. The presence of this ID= in registration response would indicate that proxy supports long duration = dialogs where UA can suspend itself. If this ID is not present, suspending = UA during long duration dialogs, such as SUBSCRIBE is not supported.=
=
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Paul Kyziv= at <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Christer,

On 9/16/18 8:28 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,

I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request.

I put everything in a dedicated section.

If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request.

I have one concern about this:

The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the sco= pe of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had to be uni= que among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if we assume that a= given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for subscription dialogs exp= ands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique among all dialogs managed= by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs.

It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs since t= he format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more considera= tion.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul

----

X. Subscription Dialog Considerations

when a UA creates a subscription dialog [RFC6665], there may be a long peri= od between mid-dialog SIP NOTIFY
request. During that time the UA might get suspended, and needs to be awake= n in order to receive
such NOTIFY request. However, unlike an initial request for a dialog, the N= OTIFY request will not contain
the pn- SIP URI parameters needed by the proxy to request a push notificati= on towards the UA. Instead, the proxy
need to support a mechanism, where it stores the information needed to requ= est a push notification towards the UA,
and when the proxy receives the initial SUBSCRIBE request for the subscript= ion dialog it needs to associate the
subscription dialog with that information. This section describes the UA- a= nd proxy procedures for such mechanism.

The procedures in this section are applied in addition to the generic proce= dures for the UA and the proxy.

X.1. SIP UA Beahvior

X.1.1. SUBSCRIBE

When the UA sends a SIP SUBSCRIBE request (initial or subscription refresh)= , if the UA wants to receive push notification
requests when the proxy receives NOTIFY requests addressed towards the UA, = the UA MUST include a '+sip.prid' Contact header
field parameter in the SUBSCRIBE request. The UA MUST include the same para= meter value that it included in the pn-prid SIP URI
parameter of the last REGISTER request.

X.2. SIP Proxy Behavior

X.2.1. REGISTER

When the UA receives a REGISTER request from the UA, the proxy MUST store t= he information (the pn- SIP URI parameters)
needed to request push notifications associated with the registration towar= ds the UA, and use the pn-prid SIP URI parameter
value as key to access the data. The proxy MUST store the information until= the registration expires. As describe in section 5.2,
the proxy needs to be able to retrieve the registration state information f= rom the registrar using some mechanism.

X.2.2 SUBSCRIBE

When the proxy receives an initial SUBSCRIBE request for a subscription dia= log from a UA, the request
contains a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameters, and the pro= xy has stored the information needed
in order to request push notifications towards the UA [ref-to-reg-section],= the proxy MUST store the
subscription dialog information, including the '+sip.prid' Contact = header field parameter value. In addition,
the proxy MUST add a Record-Route header field to the request and add itsel= f to the dialog route [RFC3261]
before forwarding the request.

If the proxy receives a mid-dialog SUBSCRIBE subscription refresh request f= rom the UA, and the request contains
a '+sip.prid' Contact header field parameter with an updated parame= ter value, the proxy MUST update the value
in the stored dialog information.

X.2.3. NOTIFY

When the proxy receives a mid-dialog NOTIFY request addressed towards the U= A, the proxy has stored the associated
dialog information [ref-to-sub-section], and the proxy is able to retrieve = the stored information needed to request
a push notification towards the UA [ref-to-reg-equest], the proxy MUST requ= est a push notification towards the UA.
Once the proxy has received the triggered REGISTER request, and the associa= ted successful response, the proxy can
forward the NOTIFY request towards the UA.

Otherwise the proxy MUST reject the NOTIFY request and send a 480 (Temporar= ily Unavailable) error response.

As described in [section 5.3.2], while waiting for the push notification re= quest to
succeed, and the associated REGISTER request to arrive from the SIP UA, the= proxy needs
to take into consideration that the transaction associated with the NOTIFY = request will
eventually time out at the sender of the request (UAC), and the sender will= consider the
transaction a failure.







--000000000000674104057615f037-- From nobody Mon Sep 17 12:50:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38C4130EBA for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:50:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4oqWGad3LhNu for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0A5130EAA for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:50:06 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-0fdff700000033ca-10-5ba0056ba2bb Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 3B.D0.13258.C6500AB5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8HJo2E3014503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:50:03 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <85054dce-16c3-f4e4-e610-970acee3b483@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:50:02 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprCKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJvLuiDa4OJnEYsLMw8zWsy4MJXZ 4uuPTWwOzB6/vl5l81iy5CeTx60pBQHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZb/ZtYC+YzF3xecYr5gbG RxxdjJwcEgImEuePrmDsYuTiEBLYwSSx68lcKOchk8TaX9cYQaqEBaIlTne8Y+5i5OAQAbK/ LRUBCTMLqEpMP9PODFG/mFFi//mTzCAJNgEtiTmH/rOA2LwC9hL39zwFm8MC1NBx8x1YjahA msTfziWMEDWCEidnPgGr5xSwkVg+9SMjxAIziXmbHzJD2OISt57MZ4Kw5SW2v53DPIFRYBaS 9llIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRrnEnNJc3dzEzJzi1GTd4uTEvLzUIl1DvdzMEr3UlNJNjJCg5tnB +G2dzCFGAQ5GJR7eH4vmRwuxJpYVV+YeYpTkYFIS5Y3NBArxJeWnVGYkFmfEF5XmpBYfYpTg YFYS4WXmA8rxpiRWVqUW5cOkpDlYlMR5WU32RgkJpCeWpGanphakFsFkZTg4lCR4jVgWRAsJ FqWmp1akZeaUIKSZODhBhvMADa8CqeEtLkjMLc5Mh8ifYjTmaLjQP4mZ48/7qZOYhVjy8vNS pcR5NzADlQqAlGaU5sFNgyWmV4ziQM8J8yaADOQBJjW4ea+AVjEBrcrYMAdkVUkiQkqqgbFp hxtvzvJjLEqCzfnFYr7pLzljlb+sfy5j1xX3tFhky5rysxuczFOPsPl+jdj4r3DGvPykD877 p6obGfcflHepf7Vmr2fBOw0uA4+69lo2262Zs57uMvmsds6wa3YW5+NLr7TjK3jur2XPD87f fXyT2O/ibpZPpie1k58u1ZLp/j6tZMKZUCWW4oxEQy3mouJEAAdI7AEnAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:50:11 -0000 On 9/17/18 3:05 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>> I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. >>> >>> I put everything in a dedicated section. >>> >>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. >> >> I have one concern about this: >> >> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the scope of uniqueness. It >> looks to me that until now the PRID only had to be unique among PRID values issued by the >> same PNS. (At least if we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for >> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique among all dialogs >> managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs. >> >> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs since the format is left entirely up >> to the PNS. I think this needs more consideration. > > We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed. Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be said up front and first specification of PRID, that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, I don't see how it can be left to each individual PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs to have a distinct namespace somehow. Thanks, Paul From nobody Mon Sep 17 12:54:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15202130EBD for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id spjlBUDoZhbn for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with 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sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A4.E1.21978.F5600AB5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:54:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:54:06 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:54:06 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID Thread-Index: AdRNuKd4UKSZJa8LSFyCfOKF8bHz+AAziomAAAio2QAABU6EgA== Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:54:06 +0000 Message-ID: <7b43800332314c6fb951b0bdd4023062@ericsson.com> References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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<85054dce-16c3-f4e4-e610-970acee3b483@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <85054dce-16c3-f4e4-e610-970acee3b483@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9RDeCfUG0wYY3VhYrNhxgtZhxYSqz xdcfm9gcmD3+vv/A5LFkyU8mj1tTCgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy+mc0shf8EKpY1vCWpYFx h1AXIyeHhICJxK2LC1i7GLk4hASOMkpMO3WcHcL5xihx7dMuRghnGaPE1m3nWLoYOTjYBCwk uv9pg3SLCLhILOk+wgxiMwuoSiy4d4cRxBYWiJZoONgHVi4iECMx/4k+RLmbxL43z5lBwixA 5cu/GYKEeQWsJRbumMsGsekmo8TGf6uZQBKcAg4SF7b9YQGxGQXEJL6fWsMEsUpc4taT+UwQ DwhILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfK4StJLH32HWwE5gFNCXW79KHaFWUmNL9kB1ir6DEyZlPWCYwis1C MnUWQscsJB2zkHQsYGRZxShanFpcnJtuZKSXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiREYTQe3/LbawXjwueMh RgEORiUe3uTf86OFWBPLiitzDzFKcDArifAy8wGFeFMSK6tSi/Lji0pzUosPMUpzsCiJ8zql WUQJCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZJk4OKUaGK2TDt64/0W+bfvLWZb33z67tejIiYW3rcrlzZcxluqs 33/W9daKC54rNgiIsWiFCeosKv4bsObSu4i8e/7B2Q+lX4jsFfuY9UP17PwtCffPWT131dFv OfCm5s0HyQUOG/YWxuUeYJgWwnVnwaJbZjcUE5kCpjxYtc/sH1978Le0CkEGW2HGMD8lluKM REMt5qLiRAAdgbMXogIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:58:21 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+Pj4gSSBoYXZlIHB1dCB0b2dldGhlciBpbml0aWFsIHRleHQgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBt aWQtZGlhbG9nIE5PVElGWSByZXF1ZXN0Lg0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiBJIHB1dCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIGlu IGEgZGVkaWNhdGVkIHNlY3Rpb24uDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IElmIHBlb3BsZSBhcmUgb2sgd2l0aCB0 aGUgYXBwcm9hY2gsIEkgd2lsbCBjcmVhdGUgYSBwcm9wZXIgcHVsbCByZXF1ZXN0Lg0KPj4+DQo+ Pj4gSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBjb25jZXJuIGFib3V0IHRoaXM6DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiBUaGUgZG9jIHNheXMg 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Cg== From nobody Mon Sep 17 13:01:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A3C130EF5 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KJk9vZoEPNTA for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com 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[209.85.210.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p4-v6sm22731695pgs.75.2018.09.17.13.01.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id l9-v6so8044656pff.9 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:b0e:: with SMTP id t14-v6mr27056723pfi.36.1537214499276; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:01:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> <85054dce-16c3-f4e4-e610-970acee3b483@alum.mit.edu> From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:01:38 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c4ee2057616a4ae" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:01:51 -0000 --0000000000002c4ee2057616a4ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>>> I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. > >>>> > >>>> I put everything in a dedicated section. > >>>> > >>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull > request. > >>> > >>> I have one concern about this: > >>> > >>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the > >>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had > >>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if > >>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for > >>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be > unique > >>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve > multiple PNSs. > >>> > >>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs > >>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs > more consideration. > >> > >> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed. > > > > Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be > said up front and first specification of PRID, > > that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, > I don't see how it can be left to each individual > > PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique > from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs > > to have a distinct namespace somehow. > > Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, we > can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases that is not a > problem, since there are additional pn- parameters. > > Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generating a > random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solution. > I am definitely ok with it. Also, as you mentioned earlier, since the new id carries no personally identifiable information, it can be left in the SUBSCRIBE dialog contact, which removes the need to for extra parameters in Record-Route. It also has an additional benefit that makes long dialog support optional on the proxy side. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000002c4ee2057616a4ae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg <c= hrister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>>> I have put together initial te= xt to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request.
>>>>
>>>> I put everything in a dedicated section.
>>>>
>>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper= pull request.
>>>
>>> I have one concern about this:
>>>
>>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't = state the
>>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID on= ly had
>>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At lea= st if
>>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text= for
>>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID mus= t be unique
>>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might invol= ve multiple PNSs.
>>>
>>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple= PNSs
>>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this = needs more consideration.
>>
>> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed.
>
> Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be= said up front and first specification of PRID,
> that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that= , I don't see how it can be left to each individual
> PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique= from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs
> to have a distinct namespace somehow.

Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, w= e can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases that is n= ot a problem, since there are additional pn- parameters.

Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generatin= g a random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solut= ion.=C2=A0

I am definitely ok with it.<= /div>

Also, as you mentioned earlier, since the new id c= arries no personally identifiable information, it can be left in the SUBSCR= IBE dialog contact, which removes the need to for extra parameters in Recor= d-Route. It also has an additional benefit that makes long dialog support o= ptional on the proxy side.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000002c4ee2057616a4ae-- From nobody Mon Sep 17 17:29:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B32130DF2 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 17:29:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KytLaCcPjZp6 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 17:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC01126BED for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 17:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-b03ff70000007a70-eb-5ba046d8f614 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 30.9D.31344.8D640AB5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8I0T8tK030085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:29:11 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <5c819c69-1021-a5b1-1d0d-8cac789b2e7b@alum.mit.edu> <85054dce-16c3-f4e4-e610-970acee3b483@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <2ab7a770-3fad-969c-3f25-dd7aed744486@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:29:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqHvDbUG0QfdTG4sLMw8zWsy4MJXZ 4uuPTWwOzB6/vl5l81iy5CeTx60pBQHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZE6c+YSu4zFexb3V6A+MV 7i5GTg4JAROJn79vM3YxcnEICexgkuj7/IoZwnnIJPG2aRETSJWwQLTE6Y53QAkODhEg+9tS EZAws4CqxPQz7VD13UwSm7/8ZgRJsAloScw59J8FxOYVsJeYfWoCO4jNAtTw6uBEZhBbVCBN 4m/nEkaIGkGJkzOfgNVzCthIvD17gw1igZnEvM0PmSFscYlbT+YzQdjyEtvfzmGewCgwC0n7 LCQts5C0zELSsoCRZRWjXGJOaa5ubmJmTnFqsm5xcmJeXmqRrplebmaJXmpK6SZGSEgL7WBc f1LuEKMAB6MSD++PRfOjhVgTy4orcw8xSnIwKYnyxmYChfiS8lMqMxKLM+KLSnNSiw8xSnAw K4nwMvMB5XhTEiurUovyYVLSHCxK4rzMJnujhATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLIyHBxKErzbXRdECwkW paanVqRl5pQgpJk4OEGG8wAN3w9Sw1tckJhbnJkOkT/FaMzRcKF/EjPHn/dTJzELseTl56VK ifNeAykVACnNKM2DmwZLS68YxYGeE+adCVLFA0xpcPNeAa1iAlqVsWEOyKqSRISUVAOjbgbr VUmxr+ttvBQVT59ewFjSsbHKceqWjVG/fMRt7/dE72k+wDf5a07YW9c1kfbqJkKFUmwiEyKO mEcdXph86Jv4mobU/z+uPSpz+V/ME/OWt+iPxzSGG2mrWn0dM59Wi30OlIpMEHrBW1cct/eH QpbpOy4fE5umW6vru3fU3VzEtHfDn7NKLMUZiYZazEXFiQAUnhecJgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PRID X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 00:29:16 -0000 On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>> I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. >>>>> >>>>> I put everything in a dedicated section. >>>>> >>>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. >>>> >>>> I have one concern about this: >>>> >>>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the >>>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had >>>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if >>>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for >>>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique >>>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs. >>>> >>>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs >>>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more consideration. >>> >>> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed. >> >> Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be said up front and first specification of PRID, >> that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, I don't see how it can be left to each individual >> PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs >> to have a distinct namespace somehow. > > Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, we can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases that is not a problem, since there are additional pn- parameters. > > Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generating a random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solution. Yes, I agree it is a better solution. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Sep 18 04:37:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB27F130DC1 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZHB1-L5M8cx for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 091B8130DCC for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 04:37:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537270670; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xj+z15Wl2WNEeK6Rm3VFr1yDPRXFsOuOPh1q4PBnEE8=; b=CBuqpbf6ISa4SpvlmI/b81/PxGUPVH9iFl45A/UIvabB8JABhRgzi/ZlYUHOTeu5 /iKkOz1F7DsAtT81W3meMETF/Z/WIGEkc+Wp0GE3VSy7uMBXbZmew6GY6LvTXSwO infflrFKDQzgK5RC7Q1nWts96zf9Gmu874n7rc7+n98=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-75d969c000003197-86-5ba0e38eec1c Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 67.20.12695.E83E0AB5; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:37:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:37:49 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:37:49 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUT0QGl1AlgrTkF0+kVcTLeoztPQ== Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:49 +0000 Message-ID: <188BF52A-28CB-41AB-A8C5-73C1C0CC2EA1@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: 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Z2ggSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IFBSSURzIHdpbGwgYmUgZ2xvYmFsbHkgdW5pcXVlIGluIHJlYWxpdHks IHdlIGNhbid0IG1hbmRhdGUgaW4gdGhlIHNwZWNpYXRpb24uIEJ1dCwgZm9yIG5vcm1hbCBwdXNo IGNhc2VzIHRoYXQgaXMgbm90IGEgcHJvYmxlbSwgc2luY2UgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwg cG4tIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMuDQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+IEFueXdheSwgaWYgcGVvcGxlIGFyZSBvayB3 aXRoIFJvbWFuJ3Mgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgcHJveHkgZ2VuZXJhdGluZyBhIHJhbmRvbSB2 YWx1ZSAobm90IGEgZ3J1dSkgSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlIGEgYmV0dGVy IHNvbHV0aW9uLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFllcywgSSBhZ3JlZSBpdCBpcyBhIGJldHRlciBzb2x1dGlv bi4NCiAgICANCiAgICAJVGhhbmtzLA0KICAgIAlQYXVsDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Sep 18 08:17:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65ADC130E69 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pxdlwIZ_hz40 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F039130F6C for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w8IFGiZw058136 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:16:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: Christer Holmberg , Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Cc: Roman Shpount References: <188BF52A-28CB-41AB-A8C5-73C1C0CC2EA1@ericsson.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 10:16:43 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <188BF52A-28CB-41AB-A8C5-73C1C0CC2EA1@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:17:04 -0000 I'm having (minor) difficulty reading the current document (with this pr applied) because I think there's still unnecessary specialization of behavior. Let me summarize what I think the document is currently saying. Correct me where I have this wrong: 1) There is a token that is used to allow a push server to wake a UA if an out-of-dialog request arrives when the UA is asleep. That token becomes known first to the registration system (which either generates it, or has access to something outside our architectural model that generates it). We assume that the SIP domain using this extension is constructed in such a way that some proxy in the path of an inbound request can put that token into the inbound request. It is passed in the REGISTER response so that that proxy, and the push proxy, can learn the value of the token (and remember it is associated with this registration flow). 2) There is a token that is used to allow a push server to wake a UA if an in-dialog NOTIFY arrives when the UA is asleep. Again, that token becomes known first to the registration system (which generates it, or gets it through some outside magic as above). The push proxy gets to see it in the REGISTER response, and associate it with the registration flow. It gets used as the Local-Target when the UA sets up a subscription dialog. If that's correct, I have two questions: 1) Why are there two tokens? It seems one would do. 2) Why make SUBSCRIBE special this way? Even if current wireless networks would never use it with INVITE (since there are keepalives and all sorts of other things that would never let the UA sleep anyhow), or with SUBSCRIBE requests the UA receives, I don't see the harm in simplifying the specification to just use this in all dialogs. Any dialog initiating/refreshing request could behave like the way you have SUBSCRIBE specified in the draft. Existing wireless deployments would never end up using it outside the SUBSCRIBE case the draft is talking about, and that's fine. But this would cover the behavior for all of SIP. (For instance, some system that used MSRP might well have an INVITE dialog that lives a long time, with infrequent use of the media path, and an endpoint there could quite reasonably sleep). Then the text in this spec (and I think the code in any implementation) would become much simpler. RjS On 9/18/18 6:37 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Pull request created: > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/23 > > I call the new parameter PURK (Proxy Unique Registration Key), but let me know if you have a better suggestion :) > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > On 18/09/18 03:29, "Paul Kyzivat" wrote: > > On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > > > >>>>> I have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request. > >>>>> > >>>>> I put everything in a dedicated section. > >>>>> > >>>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request. > >>>> > >>>> I have one concern about this: > >>>> > >>>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the > >>>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had > >>>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if > >>>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for > >>>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique > >>>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs. > >>>> > >>>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs > >>>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more consideration. > >>> > >>> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed. > >> > >> Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be said up front and first specification of PRID, > >> that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, I don't see how it can be left to each individual > >> PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs > >> to have a distinct namespace somehow. > > > > Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, we can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases that is not a problem, since there are additional pn- parameters. > > > > Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generating a random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solution. > > Yes, I agree it is a better solution. > > Thanks, > Paul > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Tue Sep 18 11:56:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42A81252B7 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUT0QGl1AlgrTkF0+kVcTLeoztPaT2BSeAgABYRpA= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:56:45 +0000 Message-ID: <66557167f3f04e448a4c50c0268826f3@ericsson.com> References: <188BF52A-28CB-41AB-A8C5-73C1C0CC2EA1@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uW6B18Jog5k3hSxWbDjAanFtTiOb xYwLU5ktvv7YxObA4vH3/QcmjyVLfjJ5zNr5hMXj1pSCAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErowLGy8z Fmyzrdh34QtLA+Mb6y5GTg4JAROJLW/bmboYuTiEBI4ySjz7epMdwvnGKLHt2nQmkCohgWWM Etfea3YxcnCwCVhIdP/TBgmLCORI7Hl4jh3EZhZQlVhw7w4jSImwQJbE480WECXZEtseT2aH sK0k9v8+wgxiswCVr7j1BizOK2AtcenAeRaITSUSN2+8ZQWxOQXsJaZPmQN2AaOAmMT3U2uY 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15.01.1466.003; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 16:23:21 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "R.Jesske@telekom.de" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHUQE2Gq5aJjv9xH0eiXw9Q9NnsCKT0IyRQgAO4SAA= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:23:21 +0000 Message-ID: <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> References: <153562545519.3315.10133281272170915663@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <776F8663B5D8FE4A84CF2AFB7E538767@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ke6t6EXRBv828Fg03elis/j6YxOb A5PHkiU/mTzaXioEMEVx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZfyZ2sxW0GdQcfbjbaYGxg96XYycHBICJhKr 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Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHUQE2Gq5aJjv9xH0eiXw9Q9NnsCKT0IyRQgAO4SACAAPecIA== Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 06:29:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153562545519.3315.10133281272170915663@ietfa.amsl.com> <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=R.Jesske@telekom.de; x-originating-ip: [164.19.3.124] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; FRXPR01MB0134; 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user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_381E42326DF04296962E26E691331461ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrFIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7me71OYujDZZNYLRYseEAq8WMC1OZ Lb7+2MTmwOzx9/0HJo8lS34yedyaUhDAHMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV0b3pKVvB8j9MFW8v7GNu YFz3iamLkZNDQsBEYuOszaxdjFwcQgJHGSXetJ5jgXC+MUr0t65lh3CWMUq8+vgEqIyDg03A QqL7nzZIt4iAt0RfXwc7iM0sICdx/cNGNhBbWMBUYvXGdnaIGjOJZU8XM0HYehIL9+4Di7MI qEr0X+hkBrF5Bewldu77zAJiMwqISXw/tYYJYqa4xK0n86EuFZBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T+wc0QF 9CWmXQ6ACCtJbOndAtWaLLFi52xGiPGCEidnPmGZwCgyC8nUWUjKZiEpmwU0lVlAU2L9Ln2I EkWJKd0P2SFsDYnWOXOhbGuJaRMesCCrWcDIsYpRtDi1uDg33chYL7UoM7m4OD9PLy+1ZBMj MAYPbvmtu4Nx9WvHQ4wCHIxKPLytPYujhVgTy4orcw8xSnAwK4nwFoGEeFMSK6tSi/Lji0pz UosPMUpzsCiJ8+qt2hMlJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYBSs5MpavivHOuvHE4YDOpNuT/uc 5auXZuFdvfUDV7hh1GG1B49CamMZly+4d4/lm73NpW+bT++fxB593X7qtzsr1gpduLbrhdSj 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from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1mt7Ebq_WVMB for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 07:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3559130DCC for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 07:34:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-0e5ff700000033ca-7a-5ba3aff19512 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 9D.B2.13258.1FFA3AB5; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8KEYN76001494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:34:24 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <730746d3-8ddd-05c4-ca86-caa5b41e8c1a@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:34:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFuphleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1P20fnG0wbNDShYXZh5mtJhxYSqz xdcfm9gcmD1+fb3K5rFkyU8mj1tTCgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy5l7Zz1JwsaCi+eddlgbG 5qAuRk4OCQETiUU/m9m6GLk4hAR2MEl8m90H5TxkkuhddIwFpEpYwFRi9cZ29i5GDg4RgSSJ Y90lIGFmATmJtct3sYPYQgL2EvMv3GIDsdkEtCTmHPrPAlLOCxTvn+QAEmYRUJU4troVrFxU IE3ib+cSRhCbV0BQ4uTMJ2CbOAUcJJZ9+88CMd5MYt7mh8wQtrjErSfzmSBseYnmrbOZJzAK zELSPgtJyywkLbOQtCxgZFnFKJeYU5qrm5uYmVOcmqxbnJyYl5dapGuol5tZopeaUrqJERLQ PDsYv62TOcQowMGoxMN7Y8HiaCHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivNfeLIoW4kvKT6nMSCzOiC8qzUkt PsQowcGsJMJb1ANUzpuSWFmVWpQPk5LmYFES52U12RslJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk5Xh4FCS4E0H Rq6QYFFqempFWmZOCUKaiYMTZDgP0HAjkBre4oLE3OLMdIj8KUZdjj1fm2YwC7Hk5eelSonz 5q0DKhIAKcoozYObA0tErxjFgd4S5p0EUsUDTGJwk14BLWECWvJ56QKQJSWJCCmpBkY+hj0N 2+c9KopKd8xyzTL93LQ03ZTh4+qLLzYuPW70YZoYy95+7RchHww11Dbf05z+6fjfv9+dRMq8 FnFz75+V9vnZvovWohvq4ycoeshvmelyTvpZTyvLNqd/msc+fwvWebX+ufieS+qZSgml6xLC dAuiayfYKWq4bpx0b/t5W67Ej9rXa/YrsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAGtoDPh8DAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:34:34 -0000 On 9/20/18 9:12 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Trying to move this issue forward (it is creating problems), the last > suggestion I had (and which I **think** is aligned with what Roman said) is: > > “UPDATE requests/responses sent within an going INVITE s-e negotiation > must not change the roles – they must reflect whatever was sent in the > INVITE request and will be sent in the 200 (INVITE) response.” This seems ok to me. But one point may still not be entirely clear: If an INVITE contains a S-E, is it required that an UPDATE within that INVITE transaction also contain an S-E? IMO the answer is YES, because not doing so implies a desire for no session timer. Conversely, if an INVITE contains no S-E, then an UPDATE within that transaction must also contain no S-E. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > *From: *sipcore on behalf of Christer > Holmberg > *Date: *Thursday 29 March 2018 at 14:08 > *To: *Roman Shpount , "pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" > > *Cc: *"sipcore@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix > > Hi Roman, > > > First of all, I agree that in the initial scenario, UA in step 7 > should have responded with S-E:uas in 200 OK for Update. > > > > > > Furthermore, if UA in step 7 did respond without S-E, or with > S-E:uac, AS should not have sent 480 in step 9. It should have sent S-E:uas. > > > > > > Generally, what I am proposing is that, S-E header should be > generated based on the S-E status when request or response is generated. > If there are multiple inter-lapping transactions S-E state can change and > > > S-E state in the response should be set to the S-E value when > response is generated, not when the original request is received. In > case of your example, S-E state in step 9 should be based on results of > the UPDATE > > > transaction, not the initial INVITE. This is why it should be sent to > S-E:uas. > > > > > > Furthermore, we should restrict (with SHOULD, not MUST since existing > UA already violate this) that UA should avoid generating requests which > will change the current S-E status when another transaction which > negotiates S-E is in progress. > > > Specifically, in the example provided, UPDATE in step 5 should be > generated with S-E:uas (as it was correctly generated in your example). > Responses generated when another transaction is in progress should be > generated in a way that avoids > > > changing the current S-E status (response in step 7 should have been > S-E:has). > > > > >> > >>Finally, even with all of these restrictions there are situations when S-E status is unclear due to timing. For instance when UPDATE changing the S-E status is sent at roughly the same time as 200 OK for an > INVITE. In this case, UA cannot distinguish > >> > >>Scenario A: > >>1) UA->AS: INVITE/SE >>2) AS->UA: UPDATE/SE:uac >>3) UA-> AS: 200(UPDATE)/SE:uac >>4) AS-> UA : 200(INVITE) /SE:uac > >> > >>and > >> > >>Scenario B: > >>1) UA->AS: INVITE/SE >>2) AS-> UA : 200(INVITE) /SE:uac >>3) AS->UA: UPDATE/SE:uac >>4) UA-> AS: 200(UPDATE)/SE:uac >> > >> Between those two scenarios, either AS or UA becomes a refresher based on the message delivery timing. > > Why would the AS send SE:mac in message 4)? > >> > >> These scenarios do not violate any of the proposed rules and can be encountered with existing SIP implementations. Also, these ambiguity > cannot be resolved with refusing UPDATE request with retry after since > UA does not know that 200 OK and UPDATE are sent close together. > >> > >> My suggestion is to specify that 200 OK changing S-E status MUST NOT be sent when UPDATE transaction is in progress. UPDATE changing S-E status MUST NOT be sent when 200 OK was sent but ACK was not yet received. > >> > >> I would be very interested if you can think of other, more robust ways to detect and deal with this situation which require modifications only for one of the SIP UA. > > I am not sure whether your suggestion is any different than mine: UPDATE > requests/responses sent within an going INVITE s-e negotiation must not > change the roles – they must reflect whatever was sent in the INVITE > request and will be sent in the 200 (INVITE) response. > > Regards, > > Christer > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > Hi, > > >>>> Ok, I checked some old e-mails, and had a chat with the internal > >>>> people that informed me about the problem. > >>>> > >>>> The UPDATE request with refresher=uas is *NOT* the problem. They > >>>> have the same assumption as Paul, Jonathan etc - the value is > >>>> indicated per transaction. So, UPDATE with refresher=uas is ok. My > >>>> apologies for mixing that up. > >>>> > >>>> It¹s the UPDATE 200 OK response, where the proxy inserts > >>>> refresher=uac, that causes the problem. > >>>> > >>>> So, one alternative would be to allow UPDATE > requests/responses sent > >>>> while the s-t negotiation is ongoing are handled as defined in RFC > >>>> 4028, but that the refresher value must not be changed. > >>>> > >>>> In the case below, that means that the UA needs to include s-t > >>>> information in the UPDATE response (message #7). > >>> > >>> That seems like a simpler and cleaner fix, at least for this case. > >>> > >>> To go that way we need to consider other cases. > >>> > >>> In particular, is the UA *required* to include the s-t stuff in > the UPDATE if it supports s-t? > >> > >> Min-SE is currently MUST. > >> > >> Session-Expires is currently SHOULD. I guess we could change > that to MUST. > >> > >>> What if the UA had omitted the refresher in the INVITE? > Presumably then the AS chooses and puts its choice in the UPDATE. > >>> > >>> And once s-e in invite has been responded to with an s-e in an > UPDATE, does that finish the negotiation? > >> > >> Yes. The INVITE transaction itself does not matter - it depends > on whether s-e is negotiated within the INVITE > >> transaction or not that matters. If there is no s-e negotiation > in the INVITE transaction, the UPDATE is treated as > >> any mid-dialog request as far as s-e is concerned. > >> > >>> Then do subsequent messages within the invite transaction and > embedded UPDATES repeat the agreed upon result? > >>> Or can they do the negotiation over? > >> > >> Since there is no ongoing s-e negotiation, I see no reason why > they can't. > >> > >> In general, unless such text already exist, I think we should > recommend against re-negotiating , unless there is a good reason for it. > > > > I guess I didn't make my concerns clear. > > > > ISTM we could use O/A rules as a *model* here: > > > > A negotiation initiated in an INVITE can be completed in a > reliable response to the INVITE. Or it can be completed in an UPDATE. > > Once complete, another negotiation is forbidden within the same > INVITE transaction. I guess we would change the rules a bit in > > that we don't allow the negotiation to be completed in a reliable > provisional. (I would like to permit that, but I think it might be a > step too far for > > compatibility.) > > > > But, if we forbid further negotiation within the same INVITE, > what do we do instead if there are further UPDATEs? With O/A we can > just leave the offers out. > > With s-t, leaving it out normally means negotiating it off. > > So either we change that (which we have already explored), or > else I guess we "negotiate" again but agree to only repeat what has > already been > > negotiated. (And if we make that rule, what do we do if it is > violated? Especially, what if a proxy violates it?) > > My idea was that, if UPDATEs are send during an ongoing INVITE s-t > negotiation, the s-t information in the UPDATEs must reflect the > ongoing negotiation (similar as sending SDP in an unreliable 18x - > it is not really an answer, but it must be a copy of the > to-be-sent-answer). So, in my example, the s-t information in the > UPDATE request from the AS must reflect what the AS will eventually > send in the 200 OK to the INVITE. And, the s-t information in the > UPDATE response from the UA must reflect what the UA sent in the INVITE. > > > Alternately, once the s-t negotiation has completed, we could > simply allow another negotiation to be initiated within the same > > invite transaction, even though it seems like a stupid thing to do. > > I agree. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > >> On 23/03/18 22:48, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg" > >> on > behalf of > >> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com > > > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Paul, > >>> > >>> You say (and it was indicated in the meeting): > >>> > >>>     "I think it is, since the uac/uas roles are relative to > >>>     the direction of the individual request," > >>> > >>> Assuming that the AS and UA are implemented that way, the problem > >>> still occurs when the AS receives (8), where the refresher > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Here is the primary use case flow that has been reported as the > >>>> motivating case for the draft. (I've reformatted it for ease in > >>>> typing.) > >>>> > >>>>    1) UA->Proxy: INVITE/SE:uac > >>>>    2) Proxy->AS: INVITE/SE:uac > >>>>    3) AS->Proxy: 18x/no-SE > >>>>    4) Proxy->UA: 18x/no-SE > >>>>    5) AS->Proxy: UPDATE/SE:uas > >>>>    6) Proxy->UA: UPDATE/SE:uas > >>>>    7) UA->Proxy: 200(UPDATE)/no-SE > >>>>    8) Proxy->AS: 200(UPDATE)/SE:uac > >>>>    9) AS->Proxy: 480(INVITE) > >>>> 10) Proxy->UA: 480(INVITE) > >>>> > >>>> Some observations on the above: > >>>> > >>>> - in (5) the AS includes SE in the UPDATE, while in (7) the UA > >>>>     doesn't include SE in the response to the UPDATE. This seems > >>>>     to reflect a difference of opinion by the implementors of > >>>>     the UA and AS about what 4028 expects in this situation. > >>>>     This ambiguity needs to be resolved, and will require changes > >>>>     in some implementations. > >>> > >>> Correct. This is a case where UPDATE is received while the S-T > >>> negotiation is still ongoing. > >>> > >>>> - The 480 in (9) is caused by the AS objecting to the "uac" > >>>>     in (8) because it is in conflict with the "uas" in (5). > >>>>     This in turn is caused by the proxy including the "uac" > >>>>     in (8) because it is following the rules and thinks that > >>>>     the UA doesn't support S-T. This of course isn't the > >>>>     situation. > >>> > >>> Shouldn't the proxy know that the UA supports S-T, due to (1)? > >>> > >>>> - There has been some discussion about whether the "uas" > >>>>     value in (5) is consistent with the "uac" value in (1). > >>>>     I think it is, since the uac/uas roles are relative to > >>>>     the direction of the individual request, and (5) is > >>>>     going in the opposite direction of (1). > >>> > >>> Let's assume it is like that. > >>> > >>>> But this > >>>>     doesn't seem to affect the rest of the analysis. > >>>>     If the refresher in the UPDATE was inconsistent with > >>>>     that in the INVITE then I would expect the UA to send > >>>>     an error response to the UPDATE. > >>>> > >>>> ISTM that at least part of the fix for this must be to fix the > >>>> ambiguity about whether SE is to be included in an UPDATE and its > >>>> response that are embedded in an INVITE transaction. The existing > >>>> draft does address this one way. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>>> Another way to address it would be to require SE to be included in > >>>> both the UPDATE and its response, in a way consistent with > what was > >>>> in the INVITE and will eventually be in the response to the > INVITE. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>>> A much different way would be to require that the timer > negotiation > >>>> in an INVITE be completed in the first reliable response to the > >>>> INVITE, either 2xx or reliable 1xx. Then any UPDATE that followed > >>>> within the transaction would presumably start a new timer > >>>> negotiation. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>>> I'll also observe that this entire discussion has focused on the > >>>> negotiation of the refresher. But there is a comparable issue > >>>> around negotiating the duration of the timer. That ought to be > >>>> sorted out as part of the same fix. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Christer > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> sipcore mailing list > >>> sipcore@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Thu Sep 20 09:54:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE560130E3D for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5Gr2AgABH3KA= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:54:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <730746d3-8ddd-05c4-ca86-caa5b41e8c1a@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <730746d3-8ddd-05c4-ca86-caa5b41e8c1a@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ie6OC4ujDXas0rNYseEAq8WMC1OZ Lb7+2MTmwOzx9/0HJo8lS34yedyaUhDAHMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVsercZpaCW3MZK552nWRq YLwyk7GLkZNDQsBEYuHnB0A2F4eQwFFGif55C9khnG+MEmvfvmSDcJYxSrx585+1i5GDg03A QqL7nzZIt4iAt8SE+avZQGxmATmJ6x82gtnCAqYSl5sfs0HUmEkse7qYCcK2kth+dRI7iM0i oCrRcReil1fAWuLplpcsILaQQKnE7lu7wWo4BRwknn3axwpiMwqISXw/tYYJYpe4xK0n85kg 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[209.85.210.171]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s77-v6sm9216218pfd.85.2018.09.20.10.44.45 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id l9-v6so4705688pff.9 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a65:6406:: with SMTP id a6-v6mr7286855pgv.60.1537465485168; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:44:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:44:44 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001916a605765114a5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:44:54 -0000 --0000000000001916a605765114a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christer, I would really need to refresh my memory on this. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Trying to move this issue forward (it is creating problems), the last > suggestion I had (and which I **think** is aligned with what Roman said) > is: > > > > =E2=80=9CUPDATE requests/responses sent within an going INVITE s-e negoti= ation > must not change the roles =E2=80=93 they must reflect whatever was sent i= n the > INVITE request and will be sent in the 200 (INVITE) response.=E2=80=9D > > > There are several issues we need to have addressed that go beyond this statement: 1. UPDATE can be used by either party to negotiate session timer when session timer was not present in the initial INVITE. 2. There are existing implementations that violate your proposal. What should UA do when they receive an UPDATE that changes S-E status during the INVITE transaction? I was trying to come up with rules that deal with all of those cases. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000001916a605765114a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christer,

I would really need to re= fresh my memory on this.

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
=

Trying to move this issue forward (it is creating pr= oblems), the last suggestion I had (and which I *think* is aligned w= ith what Roman said) is:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CUPDATE requests/respon= ses sent within an going INVITE s-e negotiation must not change the roles = =E2=80=93 they must reflect whatever was sent in the INVITE request and wil= l be sent in the 200 (INVITE) response.=E2=80=9D



There are several issues we need to have addressed that go beyond this sta= tement:

1. UPDATE can be used by either party to n= egotiate session timer when session timer was not present in the initial IN= VITE.
2. There are existing implementations that violate your pro= posal. What should UA do when they receive an UPDATE that changes S-E statu= s during the INVITE transaction?

I was trying to c= ome up with rules that deal with all of those cases.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.214.178]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d7-v6sm14224076pfg.1.2018.09.20.13.00.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f178.google.com with SMTP id ba4-v6so4831361plb.11 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:1ab:: with SMTP id b40-v6mr41939834plb.55.1537473654503; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:00:54 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000740a9057652fb17" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 20:01:06 -0000 --0000000000000740a9057652fb17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Do you really think we will find a solution that nobody violates? > > > No, but what we can find is the proposal on how to deal with these violations gracefully, so that if one of the UA implements the new specification, there is a predictable behavior. _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000000740a9057652fb17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Do you really think we will find a solution = that nobody violates?



No, but what we can find is the proposal on how to deal with these violati= ons gracefully, so that if one of the UA implements the new specification, = there is a predictable behavior.
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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(Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.121]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 92.F4.22015.5DCF3AB5; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 22:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 22:02:29 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 22:02:29 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 20:02:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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[209.85.215.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j191-v6sm40920123pfc.136.2018.09.20.13.09.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id d1-v6so4938774pgo.3 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:1a5a:: with SMTP id a26-v6mr38651365pgm.9.1537474150142; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:09:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:09:09 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000921b0e0576531854" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 20:09:13 -0000 --000000000000921b0e0576531854 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > So, are you aware of implementations that would send UPDATE in the > backwards direction (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is > still ongoing, in order to negotiate session timer? > > > I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial INVITE transaction and include session timer headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that put or update Session-Expires header on all UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them. _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000921b0e0576531854 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= hu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holm= berg@ericsson.com> wrote:

So, are you aware of implementations = that would send UPDATE in the backwards direction (towards the sender of th= e INVITE), while the INVITE is still ongoing, in order to negotiate session timer?

=C2=A0

<= /blockquote>

_____________
Roman = Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.214.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v20-v6sm52592762pfk.12.2018.09.20.13.53.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id w14-v6so4895019plp.6 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:53:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6909:: with SMTP id j9-v6mr40745799plk.196.1537476805606; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:53:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:53:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:53:25 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d9421c057653b62f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 20:53:29 -0000 --000000000000d9421c057653b62f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> So, are you aware of implementations that would send UPDATE in the > backwards direction > >> (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is still ongoing, > in order to negotiate session timer? > > > > I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial INVITE > transaction and include session timer > > headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that put or > update Session-Expires header on all > > UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them. > > Both endpoints send these UPDATEs? > There scenarios when either UA originating or accepting the call is sending UPDATE messages. Neither initial INVITE no UPDATE message actually have the S-E header, but it gets added to all INVITE or UPDATE requests by the proxy which is located on the call path. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000d9421c057653b62f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Christer Holmberg <c= hrister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> So, are you aware of implementations t= hat would send UPDATE in the backwards direction
>> (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is still ongo= ing, in order to negotiate session timer?
>
> I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial INVIT= E transaction and include session timer
> headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that put o= r update Session-Expires header on all
> UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them.

Both endpoints send these UPDATEs?

There scenarios when either UA originating or accepting the call is send= ing UPDATE messages. Neither initial INVITE no UPDATE message actually have= the S-E header, but it gets added to all INVITE or UPDATE requests by the = proxy which is located on the call path.

Regards,<= /div>
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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(sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B033F130DCB for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 23:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537511403; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uYPiaBlWnRlzHoKrs4JXBAQ/nV1yn0CaX6yF5Dlgm34=; b=ZBV9WEjg9wNEZY1aAt46FyhcRGKEuZhqzw+9x0YAcwni/T6DvnYUnW/WgahJL9mc UfAps+BMK5utD0nu81XxzB+07il/jMD1bVyXKeiGppsHRmcpn+MPOJQW7Fo2i7p8 n1TAcPmzzGNG0ZAJeAapHZ5+BaKB4F59NRLLLyTUdqA=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-ff9ff700000055da-cd-5ba48feb79a5 Received: from ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.121]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DD.E9.21978.BEF84AB5; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:30:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:30:02 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:30:02 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwA= Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 06:30:02 +0000 Message-ID: <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5rZRDHrCG9uI for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 06:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49765130DC0 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 06:27:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537536461; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=tdelKoMcn18GxqovZAHkDztqmx6TF7owVk75YDdH2dM=; b=YUMIdAX2zvsjMedNXn8aq4cJv9/YkdtN1GSEqBXoXUKn2s+NbpLEvKyiMs0yy+zG 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AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROQ== Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5BA9C8BB64BA3F46980830EF7AAFCF68@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrCIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7le7Zj0uiDV68kLRYseEAq8W1OY1s FjMuTGW2+PpjE5sDi8ff9x+YPJYs+cnkMWvnExaPW1MKAliiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDKmb97M XHDHpuLOjPPsDYxTrLsYOTkkBEwkfu89xwJiCwkcZZTomyzZxcgFZH9jlLjQ8JsFwlnGKDHz 2xqmLkYODjYBC4nuf9ogDSICORJ7Hp5jB7GZBVQlFty7wwhiCws0M0ps+BcGUdPCKLH+iB2E rSfx+NZMVhCbBaj+4p05YL28AvYSNy+/ZQaxGQXEJL6fAlkFMlNc4taT+UwQhwpILNlznhnC FpV4+fgfK8g5ogL6EtMuB0CElSS29G4Bu5JZQFNi/S59iCnWEvvvX4SaqCgxpfsh1FZBiZMz n7BMYBSbhWTZLITuWUi6ZyHpnoWkewEj6ypG0eLU4qTcdCMjvdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwLg7 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[209.85.215.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t2-v6sm45858711pfj.7.2018.09.21.07.47.52 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f177.google.com with SMTP id l63-v6so6161454pga.7 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:d44a:: with SMTP id u10-v6mr46701201pfl.144.1537541272294; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:47:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:47:51 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Robert Sparks , Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ce078057662b913" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:47:59 -0000 --0000000000005ce078057662b913 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christer, I have reviewed the changes and I generally like them except for a few comments that I have submitted. First comment is that proxy MUST update newly generated ID on a regular basis, or this value can be used for fingerprinting. Second, newly generated key must be unique but does not have to be random. Using a random function is just one way to generate it. Another way would be to combine pn- parameters, add a random nonce, and encrypt using proxy specific key. The value will look random for an external observer but will not be strictly speaking random. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I have generated yet another pull request, with text that allows > mid-dialog push notifications for all types of mid-dialog requests. > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/24 > > The text allows the SIP UA to decide (based on local policy), for a given > dialog, whether it wants to receive push notifications triggered by > mid-dialog request received by the proxy. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 19/09/18 13:42, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg" < > sipcore-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > >> 2) Why make SUBSCRIBE special this way? Even if current wireless > networks would never use it with INVITE (since there are keepalives and a= ll > sorts of other things that > >> would never let the UA sleep anyhow), or with SUBSCRIBE requests > the UA receives, I don't see the harm in simplifying the specification to > just use this in all dialogs. Any > >> dialog initiating/refreshing request could behave like the way you > have SUBSCRIBE specified in the draft. Existing wireless deployments woul= d > never end up using it outside > >> the SUBSCRIBE case the draft is talking about, and that's fine. Bu= t > this would cover the behavior for all of SIP. (For instance, some system > that used MSRP might well have an > >> INVITE dialog that lives a long time, with infrequent use of the > media path, and an endpoint there could quite reasonably sleep). Then the > text in this spec (and I think the > >> code in any implementation) would become much simpler. > > > > We can for sure allow this also in INVITE dialogs. > > > > However, in VoIP sessions it is not needed, as the UA will be awake > during the session, so I don't think we shall mandate it. > > One thing to keep in mind is that, for incoming sessions towards the > UA, the push proxy needs to make a decision whether to add a Record-Route > before it gets any indication from the UA. > > Now, the UA could still indicate in the 2xx response that it does not > want to receive mid-dialog push requests, but the proxy cannot "undo" the > Record-Route. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > On 9/18/18 6:37 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Pull request created: > > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/23 > > > > I call the new parameter PURK (Proxy Unique Registration Key), > but let > > me know if you have a better suggestion :) > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/09/18 03:29, "Paul Kyzivat" wrote= : > > > > On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > >>>>> I have put together initial text to support > mid-dialog NOTIFY request. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I put everything in a dedicated section. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a > proper pull request. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have one concern about this: > > >>>> > > >>>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it > doesn't state the > > >>>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now th= e > PRID only had > > >>>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS= . > (At least if > > >>>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the > new text for > > >>>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the > PRID must be unique > > >>>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These > might involve multiple PNSs. > > >>>> > > >>>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across > multiple PNSs > > >>>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I > think this needs more consideration. > > >>> > > >>> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if > needed. > > >> > > >> Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think > more needs to be said up front and first specification of PRID, > > >> that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. > But beyond that, I don't see how it can be left to each individual > > >> PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its > values are unique from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs > > >> to have a distinct namespace somehow. > > > > > > Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique i= n > reality, we can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases > that is not a problem, since there are additional pn- parameters. > > > > > > Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the > proxy generating a random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably = be > a better solution. > > > > Yes, I agree it is a better solution. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sipcore mailing list > > sipcore@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > --0000000000005ce078057662b913 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Christer,

I have reviewed the changes a= nd I generally like them except for a few comments that I have submitted.

First comment is that proxy MUST update newly gener= ated ID on a regular basis, or this value can be used for fingerprinting.

Second, newly generated key must be unique but does= not have to be random. Using a random function is just one way to generate= it. Another way would be to combine pn- parameters, add a random nonce, an= d encrypt using proxy specific key. The value will look random for an exter= nal observer but will not be strictly speaking random.

=
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Christer Ho= lmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi,

I have generated yet another pull request, with text that allows mid-dialog= push notifications for all types of mid-dialog requests.

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/24<= /a>

The text allows the SIP UA to decide (based on local policy), for a given d= ialog, whether it wants to receive push notifications triggered by mid-dial= og request received by the proxy.

Regards,

Christer




=EF=BB=BFOn 19/09/18 13:42, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg&qu= ot; <sipcore-bounces@ietf.or= g on behalf of christ= er.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> 2) Why make SUBSCRIBE special this way? Even if curr= ent wireless networks would never use it with INVITE (since there are keepa= lives and all sorts of other things that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> would never let the UA sleep anyhow), or with SUBSCR= IBE requests the UA receives, I don't see the harm in simplifying the s= pecification to just use this in all dialogs. Any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> dialog initiating/refreshing request could behave li= ke the way you have SUBSCRIBE specified in the draft. Existing wireless dep= loyments would never end up using it outside
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the SUBSCRIBE case the draft is talking about, and t= hat's fine. But this would cover the behavior for all of SIP. (For inst= ance, some system that used MSRP might well have an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> INVITE dialog that lives a long time, with infrequen= t use of the media path, and an endpoint there could quite reasonably sleep= ). Then the text in this spec (and I think the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> code in any implementation) would become much simple= r.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > We can for sure allow this also in INVITE dialogs.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > However, in VoIP sessions it is not needed, as the UA wi= ll be awake during the session, so I don't think we shall mandate it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 One thing to keep in mind is that, for incoming sessions towa= rds the UA, the push proxy needs to make a decision whether to add a Record= -Route before it gets any indication from the UA.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now, the UA could still indicate in the 2xx response that it = does not want to receive mid-dialog push requests, but the proxy cannot &qu= ot;undo" the Record-Route.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Christer




=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 9/18/18 6:37 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Pull request created:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://github.com/c= dh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/23
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I call the new parameter PURK (Proxy Uniqu= e Registration Key), but let
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > me know if you have a better suggestion :)=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Christer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On 18/09/18 03:29, "Paul Kyzivat"= ; <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>= ; wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Hi,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= put everything in a dedicated section.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= f people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> I hav= e one concern about this:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> The d= oc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> scope= of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> to be= unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> we as= sume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> subsc= ription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> among= all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs.<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> It is= hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> since= the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more conside= ration.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>> We can in= clude more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Certainly mor= e info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be said up front and= first specification of PRID,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> that global u= niqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, I don't see = how it can be left to each individual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> PNS to specif= y how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique from those of oth= er PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> to have a dis= tinct namespace somehow.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Even though I thi= nk that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, we can't mandate in t= he speciation. But, for normal push cases that is not a problem, since ther= e are additional pn- parameters.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Anyway, if people= are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generating a random value = (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solution.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yes, I agree it is a b= etter solution.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________= __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sipcor= e@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/sipcore

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore@iet= f.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sipcore


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/sipcore



--0000000000005ce078057662b913-- From nobody Fri Sep 21 07:50:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA2C12777C; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:50:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: ben@nostrum.com, sipcore@ietf.org, mahoney@nostrum.com, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153754145638.7294.3813143517766625692.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:50:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] sipcore - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:50:56 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Jean Mahoney, a Chair of the sipcore working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Session Initiation Protocol Core Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Jean Mahoney Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: avtcore dispatch ice modern stir Second Priority: mmusic rtcweb sipbrandy People who must be present: Ben Campbell Brian Rosen Jean Mahoney Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Sep 21 07:56:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D768130DF9 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:56:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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id 5330812777C for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJK9uk8va-9w for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7E7B130E09 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutabilis-2.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w8LFEaif059700 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:14:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be mutabilis-2.local To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <183caf0a-7c23-0684-99ea-272981bb2831@nostrum.com> From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:14:35 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <183caf0a-7c23-0684-99ea-272981bb2831@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] meeting in Bangkok? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:14:40 -0000 Christer has asked for time to present the session-timer issue. I've requested a meeting session. Jean On 9/16/18 9:15 PM, A. Jean Mahoney wrote: > Please let the chairs know by Thursday, Sept 20, if you have anything > you want to present in Bangkok. Otherwise, we'll skip the meeting session. > > Thanks! > > Jean > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Fri Sep 21 08:15:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3A0130E09 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wo0MMvKcjbio for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu [18.7.68.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7792130E55 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074414-619ff70000007674-dc-5ba50b0ec7b0 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id DF.B3.30324.E0B05AB5; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8LFFPMW016144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:15:26 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: SIPCORE References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:15:25 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFuphleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1OXjXhptsOK0lcWFmYcZLWZcmMps 8fXHJjYHZo9fX6+yeSxZ8pPJ49aUggDmKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6MaTsfMBcs46/Y3nidqYHx CXcXIweHhICJxNfe7C5GTg4hgR1MEhve23YxcgHZD5kkrl76xASSEBYwlVi9sZ0dpF5EIEni WHcJSJhZQE5i7fJd7BD1y1kkep+1soAk2AS0JOYc+g9m8wrYS6xbd4ANxGYRUJX4O2U52ExR gTSJv51LGCFqBCVOznwCVs8p4CBx6OkRdogFZhLzNj9khrDFJW49mc8EYctLbH87h3kCo8As JO2zkLTMQtIyC0nLAkaWVYxyiTmlubq5iZk5xanJusXJiXl5qUW6Fnq5mSV6qSmlmxghAS2y g/HISblDjAIcjEo8vCveLokWYk0sK67MPcQoycGkJMp7bBZQiC8pP6UyI7E4I76oNCe1+BCj BAezkghvDsPSaCHelMTKqtSifJiUNAeLkjgvs8neKCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpisDAeHkgTvPC6g RsGi1PTUirTMnBKENBMHJ8hwHqDhNSA1vMUFibnFmekQ+VOMuhx7vjbNYBZiycvPS5US520D KRIAKcoozYObA0tErxjFgd4S5t3CCVTFA0xicJNeAS1hAlpyBeQ73uKSRISUVANjWenmm+9u p6hWznks+mnytcOsT6bPf/x3716mR5EzHNPcVrFedVZwq17wSTaGp2daQ92mr5bTvMo9N4t+ vPXi2PYZyWvaUm4tYzgcvypX320Np5BZ3JLFh360elo9efP/RvCvxx6LUzyvqTtF21RXsgl8 +ppWd2qKhSNPXG0E7/8d+Y5fZl33VmIpzkg01GIuKk4EAFmAd9kfAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:15:31 -0000 On 9/21/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > So, perhaps we could say: > > If there is an ongoing s-e negotiation, any target refresh request sent > when that negotiation is ongoing must reflect the s-e roles. > > That would allow to negotiate s-e with UPDATE even if the INVITE did not > include s-e. Then what happens in this case: 1) invite with no S-E 2) update with S-E 3) 200 update with S-E 4) 200 invite - what goes here? 5) afterwards, is timer active? Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > *From: *Roman Shpount > *Date: *Thursday 20 September 2018 at 23:53 > *To: *Christer Holmberg > *Cc: *"pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" , > "sipcore@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > >> So, are you aware of implementations that would send UPDATE in > the backwards direction > >> (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is still > ongoing, in order to negotiate session timer? > > > > I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial > INVITE transaction and include session timer > > headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that > put or update Session-Expires header on all > > UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them. > > Both endpoints send these UPDATEs? > > There scenarios when either UA originating or accepting the call is > sending UPDATE messages. Neither initial INVITE no UPDATE message > actually have the S-E header, but it gets added to all INVITE or UPDATE > requests by the proxy which is located on the call path. > > Regards, > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > From nobody Fri Sep 21 08:45:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556FA130E82 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:45:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org 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- Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROaT6rz+AgAA3Z4D///owYg== Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> , <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_29A03E81BF144F128B5B8EC2C1BEBEC6ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ma6A0NJogzkbTS1mXJjKbPH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnncmlIQwBTFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlbH3wB72gnsvGCs+Hj3M1MB45hFjFyMnh4SA icTOb7NYuhi5OIQEjjJKrNq0gR3C+cYo8WfrO1YIZxmjxPsNM4DKODjYBCwkuv9pg3SLCKhK /P0+mQnEZhaQk7j+YSMbiC0s0MwoseFfGERNC6PE+iN2ELaTxLWZE1lBbBag3s7pjSwgNq+A vcSe5vWMELt2MUq8XX+IHSTBKeAgseH8UrChjAJiEt9PrYFaJi5x68l8JogXBCSW7DnPDGGL 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(amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGH5NEBY-9P6 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68AD012008A for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:48:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537544914; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CM1DO7GJhlOzq8C+w0vZ8dTIKmUv/ni4KUJdrVk2Yvc=; b=SSdh/mNvgsyFe/xUFARgUVff+BDd0Bx+ydhbUXkazWZAi+0zykkfmzKUsYZcGBPU kHwMevnfDKYDhoLU3SFztBF6HWpuEL8/5q0c76rQDUshTYw5OWzRwabQN7/U85m/ ByCHpu0L4p+JSbpmNItash9bFxC5pmM/OML1bCe91Fo=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-395ff70000003197-8b-5ba512d22200 Received: from ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.122]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BB.D7.12695.2D215AB5; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:48:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:48:34 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:48:34 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat CC: Roman Shpount , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwAAC7sHgAAFWUoC Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:48:34 +0000 Message-ID: <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com>, <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9SveS0NJog46lOhYrNhxgtZhxYSqz xdcfm9gcmD3+vv/A5LFkyU8mj1tTCgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyDqxZyV5wRrDiUcsztgbG b7xdjJwcEgImErM+HWLpYuTiEBI4yiixr+kxO0hCSOAbo0Tjz1oIexmjxJmbEl2MHBxsAhYS 3f+0QUwRAQ2JSVvVQCqYBRwlLv37wQhiCwuYSqze2A42RUTATGLZ08VMEHaexJkZZ9hAbBYB VYlLpz+D1fMK2Eu0/H7CCnHCbRaJFW0fwBKcAg4Sjx6cYgWxGQXEJL6fWsMEsUxc4taT+UwQ 9wtILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfK0SNjsSC3Z/YIGxtiWULXzNDLBOUODnzCcsERtFZSEbNQtIyC0nL LCQtCxhZVjGKFqcWF+emGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIExs3BLb+tdjAefO54iFGAg1GJh3cb 29JoIdbEsuLK3EOMEhzMSiK8OQxAId6UxMqq1KL8+KLSnNTiQ4zSHCxK4rxOaRZRQgLpiSWp 2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsZQcaaHHU8aSwLbtuYnZ6+/YfGol+tT/cq8z8mOll2Kz5UcdYtnFe7K 4OjyM5nnc6F/4s4rp1iK3vbJyaQaposZHV3yt7HhOtuLKNFDdpeWt75h3nzugW62aWDZ7BOb H/g1VLz2uZfza++jzad23w6Leyax+vffxVJpJiG7FGu23N+m7dHCU6nEUpyRaKjFXFScCADb YzyOlwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:48:39 -0000 Hi Paul, Without having the RFC in front of me my initial reaction regarding 4) woul= d be that whatever is in the 200 INVITE is irrelevant and can be discarded. Regards, Christer=20 Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Sep 2018, at 18.29, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 >> On 9/21/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Hi, >> So, perhaps we could say: >> If there is an ongoing s-e negotiation, any target refresh request sent = when that negotiation is ongoing must reflect the s-e roles. >> That would allow to negotiate s-e with UPDATE even if the INVITE did not= include s-e. >=20 > Then what happens in this case: >=20 > 1) invite with no S-E > 2) update with S-E > 3) 200 update with S-E > 4) 200 invite - what goes here? > 5) afterwards, is timer active? >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 >> Regards, >> Christer >> *From: *Roman Shpount >> *Date: *Thursday 20 September 2018 at 23:53 >> *To: *Christer Holmberg >> *Cc: *"pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" , "sipcore@ietf.org= " >> *Subject: *Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Christer Holmberg > wrote: >> >> So, are you aware of implementations that would send UPDATE in >> the backwards direction >> >> (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is still >> ongoing, in order to negotiate session timer? >> > >> > I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial >> INVITE transaction and include session timer >> > headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that >> put or update Session-Expires header on all >> > UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them. >> Both endpoints send these UPDATEs? >> There scenarios when either UA originating or accepting the call is send= ing UPDATE messages. Neither initial INVITE no UPDATE message actually have= the S-E header, but it gets added to all INVITE or UPDATE requests by the = proxy which is located on the call path. >> Regards, >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount >=20 From nobody Fri Sep 21 10:04:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E354A130E42; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:04:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: ben@nostrum.com, sipcore@ietf.org, mahoney@nostrum.com, sipcore-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153754946985.7431.2647697485601983961.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:04:29 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] sipcore - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:04:30 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Jean Mahoney, a Chair of the sipcore working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Session Initiation Protocol Core Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Jean Mahoney Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: avtcore dispatch ice modern stir mmusic sipbrandy rtcweb perc Second Priority: acme quic People who must be present: Ben Campbell Brian Rosen Jean Mahoney Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Sep 21 10:23:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A574126F72 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537550595; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bju5Y6tVNA71dLQ+HyU4wuvY6u6sNSHVgPAq6oGVJR0=; b=IIjzZF5hGZp3J71qF5TLstuVH5oUQqX6s+HM0z8PXxitdUa9BX3jrRst/Z1J/kQy ra8CMMNVahmc20u3YhiheDPZzm6onoGc49dH7wFDiZ3ozWwjPDHkGnHCOU7zr6Cl AWtSgIZhfaDK+cRvlxV3VeIoaeEZRSEfaeV4/zOGMJM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8ffff700000013ad-bd-5ba52903c8c0 Received: from ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.121]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6B.C4.05037.30925AB5; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 19:23:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 19:23:14 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 19:23:14 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROaT6rz+AgAA3Z4D///owYoAAG0xQ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:23:14 +0000 Message-ID: <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> , <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: 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[209.85.210.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h7-v6sm46253618pfd.155.2018.09.21.10.46.17 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id u24-v6so6276067pfn.13 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:cac5:: with SMTP id y66-v6mr47443610pfk.187.1537551977234; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:46:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:46:16 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Robert Sparks , Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d491a05766537ef" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:46:22 -0000 --0000000000006d491a05766537ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >I have reviewed the changes and I generally like them except for a few > comments that I have submitted. > > > > > >First comment is that proxy MUST update newly generated ID on a regular > basis, or this value can be used for fingerprinting. > > > > Do you mean within the same registration, as part of a re-REGISTER? Then, > what will happen if there is an ongoing dialog that was established prior > to the new value was generated, and the proxy receives a mid-dialog request > with the OLD value? > > > I actually mean both. New ID is generated for each binding refresh. All of these IDs are valid until the registration with this Call-ID expires. What we are implementing is similar to temp-gruu which is defined here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5627#section-3.2 When creating the dialog, UA can use any of the key values it received during the currently active registration. Typically new PURK should be used for each dialog with a new party. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000006d491a05766537ef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Christer Holmberg <= span dir=3D"ltr"><christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

>I have reviewed the changes and I generally like= them except for a few comments that I have submitted.

>=C2=A0=

>First comment is that proxy= MUST update newly generated ID on a regular basis, or this value can be us= ed for fingerprinting.

=C2=A0

Do you mean within the same reg= istration, as part of a re-REGISTER? Then, what will happen if there is an = ongoing dialog that was established prior to the new value was generated, a= nd the proxy receives a mid-dialog request with the OLD value?


=

I actually mean both. New ID is generated for each bind= ing refresh. All of these IDs are valid until the registration with this Ca= ll-ID expires. What we are implementing is similar to temp-gruu which is de= fined here:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5627#section-3.2

<= div>When creating the dialog, UA can use any of the key values it received = during the currently active registration. Typically new PURK should be used= for each dialog with a new party.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000006d491a05766537ef-- From nobody Fri Sep 21 10:50:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F53E1277C8 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yMQ8XKq9GxN9 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C90401292AD for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 2-v6so6385548pgo.4 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DWih4NWm1mFPe/e8tCOcR+R/K6Y/NI/3N2vIUeeLVJw=; b=SmvxMWavEzliQqHywnEcw/x39sf2Qi3u2KeG04xbYR//xGSJvv/HycYkIO3y1hUFVl lMIIHWAOKNfaBafhjhRd0xDp+R0hKD2u4/x/+IdUzKCpYThcZwCwsftbrEr34/aXGB/p u9+2oWpt3WP5rVAlWfwRfhmC5EkpLD+wyh0UScRdkajw+M/7JW3MuRUTeoi6gtQLOJtR qj1k26KJ8E7r47A4K6jhf4Xh541dGD2d6wbKq+ziRIHHbELxoaaVCsYthx4jHuDvQ/v1 ckBfHOEzmg4VdyYWS4dQjMzNmPGFjeoASThmz5v5xVPRfj5wXbJX0ztYsogNmTEoA8xP xaLQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DWih4NWm1mFPe/e8tCOcR+R/K6Y/NI/3N2vIUeeLVJw=; b=LkKznGji9OKD+dOYhUW3eMYIFmn+YSU1J2EzIDiNYWRs7zLoixafbkYEvY28aed/PQ lxbOCZM4NhiLGE7/Xnv9+CORYGXCt5gpkb36ofILIdlCL/S2fTOo438k7OvpdhWcyitb Kb2MeuIu3PJZ4GRYvyosIflm+w2mSmj8zUl9d7EOAduuXjS07OiW5pdC/2VITedbiwax 6QLwy6JU4hJlFb8Q/3G2Rcjnyy9wTgCfZQc7Xp9IChifoLjfOPmF2n0doyVgQxFgW7SD AbE8Ns7sghf12VhPOomLBk9StZrJ+JpNevj54Tc+jokYlQzHHXhlb46g6qGv3HpzXxfZ dVfw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51B7RhhGheqDqsd2mm7sGT8tK/gYhec5kBXmLu3BoOK1Ys3v4ESl zGyRkuztK3hUCeQo0KdnsfaSyYGuhSw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZHIYhlmLg94X+G/WPOK9StzP2xGM/ARKVHvww1Z7Mh1C1LghBgBc5fBxViYKQriM1zMOpt8Q== X-Received: by 2002:a63:cf0e:: with SMTP id j14-v6mr9575526pgg.195.1537552201915; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com (mail-pl1-f175.google.com. [209.85.214.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6-v6sm44929701pfs.58.2018.09.21.10.50.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id q1-v6so798732plr.4 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:1ab:: with SMTP id b40-v6mr46556304plb.55.1537552201054; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:50:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:50:00 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4818805766544be" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:50:06 -0000 --000000000000c4818805766544be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christer, This update looks good. The only remaining question is should proxy generated new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically based on local policy. In RFC 5627, temp-gruu was generated on each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new value on demand. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > I have updated the pull request, based on Roman=E2=80=99s comments. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > *From:* sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Christer > Holmberg > *Sent:* 21 September 2018 18:45 > *To:* Roman Shpount > *Cc:* SIPCORE > *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered > notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > > > > Hi, > > > > I guess the proxy could generate a new value and send it in a response to > a re-REGISTER, but it must still be able to use the old value to retrieve > the pn- information - unless it keeps record of the ongoing dialogs and > detects that there are no ongoing dialogs where the old value is used. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 21 Sep 2018, at 17.59, Christer Holmberg com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > >I have reviewed the changes and I generally like them except for a few > comments that I have submitted. > > > > > >First comment is that proxy MUST update newly generated ID on a regular > basis, or this value can be used for fingerprinting. > > > > Do you mean within the same registration, as part of a re-REGISTER? Then, > what will happen if there is an ongoing dialog that was established prior > to the new value was generated, and the proxy receives a mid-dialog reque= st > with the OLD value? > > > > >Second, newly generated key must be unique but does not have to be > random. Using a random function is just one way to generate it. > > > > Agree. Will fix that. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have generated yet another pull request, with text that allows > mid-dialog push notifications for all types of mid-dialog requests. > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/24 > > The text allows the SIP UA to decide (based on local policy), for a given > dialog, whether it wants to receive push notifications triggered by > mid-dialog request received by the proxy. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > On 19/09/18 13:42, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg" < > sipcore-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > >> 2) Why make SUBSCRIBE special this way? Even if current wireless > networks would never use it with INVITE (since there are keepalives and a= ll > sorts of other things that > >> would never let the UA sleep anyhow), or with SUBSCRIBE requests > the UA receives, I don't see the harm in simplifying the specification to > just use this in all dialogs. Any > >> dialog initiating/refreshing request could behave like the way you > have SUBSCRIBE specified in the draft. Existing wireless deployments woul= d > never end up using it outside > >> the SUBSCRIBE case the draft is talking about, and that's fine. Bu= t > this would cover the behavior for all of SIP. (For instance, some system > that used MSRP might well have an > >> INVITE dialog that lives a long time, with infrequent use of the > media path, and an endpoint there could quite reasonably sleep). Then the > text in this spec (and I think the > >> code in any implementation) would become much simpler. > > > > We can for sure allow this also in INVITE dialogs. > > > > However, in VoIP sessions it is not needed, as the UA will be awake > during the session, so I don't think we shall mandate it. > > One thing to keep in mind is that, for incoming sessions towards the > UA, the push proxy needs to make a decision whether to add a Record-Route > before it gets any indication from the UA. > > Now, the UA could still indicate in the 2xx response that it does not > want to receive mid-dialog push requests, but the proxy cannot "undo" the > Record-Route. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > On 9/18/18 6:37 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Pull request created: > > > > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/23 > > > > I call the new parameter PURK (Proxy Unique Registration Key), > but let > > me know if you have a better suggestion :) > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/09/18 03:29, "Paul Kyzivat" wrote= : > > > > On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > >>>>> I have put together initial text to support > mid-dialog NOTIFY request. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I put everything in a dedicated section. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If people are ok with the approach, I will create a > proper pull request. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have one concern about this: > > >>>> > > >>>> The doc says that the PRID must be unique. But it > doesn't state the > > >>>> scope of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now th= e > PRID only had > > >>>> to be unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS= . > (At least if > > >>>> we assume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the > new text for > > >>>> subscription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the > PRID must be unique > > >>>> among all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These > might involve multiple PNSs. > > >>>> > > >>>> It is hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across > multiple PNSs > > >>>> since the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I > think this needs more consideration. > > >>> > > >>> We can include more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if > needed. > > >> > > >> Certainly more info there is needed. But I also think > more needs to be said up front and first specification of PRID, > > >> that global uniqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. > But beyond that, I don't see how it can be left to each individual > > >> PNS to specify how it is going to guarantee that its > values are unique from those of other PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs > > >> to have a distinct namespace somehow. > > > > > > Even though I think that PRIDs will be globally unique i= n > reality, we can't mandate in the speciation. But, for normal push cases > that is not a problem, since there are additional pn- parameters. > > > > > > Anyway, if people are ok with Roman's suggestion of the > proxy generating a random value (not a gruu) I think that would probably = be > a better solution. > > > > Yes, I agree it is a better solution. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sipcore mailing list > > sipcore@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > --000000000000c4818805766544be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Christer,

This update looks good. The o= nly remaining question is should proxy generated new PURK on each binding r= efresh or periodically based on local policy. In RFC 5627, temp-gruu was ge= nerated on each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new value on demand.<= /div>

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Christer Ho= lmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>

Hi,

=C2=A0

I have updated the pul= l request, based on Roman=E2=80=99s comments.

=C2=A0

Regards,=

=C2=A0

Christer=

=C2=A0

From: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg
Sent: 21 September 2018 18:45
To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: SIPCORE <sipcore@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered no= tifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request=

=C2=A0

Hi, <= /span>

=C2=A0

I guess the proxy could generate a new value and sen= d it in a response to a re-REGISTER, but it must still be able to use the o= ld value to retrieve the pn- information - unless it keeps record of the on= going dialogs and detects that there are no ongoing dialogs where the old value is used.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer=C2=A0=

Sent from my iPhone


On 21 Sep 2018, at 17.59, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.co= m> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

>I have reviewed the changes= and I generally like them except for a few comments that I have submitted.=

>=C2=A0=

>First comment is that proxy= MUST update newly generated ID on a regular basis, or this value can be us= ed for fingerprinting.

=C2=A0

Do you mean within the same reg= istration, as part of a re-REGISTER? Then, what will happen if there is an = ongoing dialog that was established prior to the new value was generated, a= nd the proxy receives a mid-dialog request with the OLD value?

=C2=A0

>Second, newly generated key= must be unique but does not have to be random. Using a random function is just one way to generate it.

=C2=A0

Agree. Will fix that.=

=C2=A0

Thanks!

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM= , Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

I have generated yet another pull request, with text that allows mid-dialog= push notifications for all types of mid-dialog requests.

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/24

The text allows the SIP UA to decide (based on local policy), for a given d= ialog, whether it wants to receive push notifications triggered by mid-dial= og request received by the proxy.

Regards,

Christer




On 19/09/18 13:42, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg" <<= a href=3D"mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sipcore-bounce= s@ietf.org on behalf of christe= r.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> 2) Why make SUBSCRIBE special this way? Even if curr= ent wireless networks would never use it with INVITE (since there are keepa= lives and all sorts of other things that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> would never let the UA sleep anyhow), or with SUBSCR= IBE requests the UA receives, I don't see the harm in simplifying the s= pecification to just use this in all dialogs. Any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> dialog initiating/refreshing request could behave li= ke the way you have SUBSCRIBE specified in the draft. Existing wireless dep= loyments would never end up using it outside
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the SUBSCRIBE case the draft is talking about, and t= hat's fine. But this would cover the behavior for all of SIP. (For inst= ance, some system that used MSRP might well have an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> INVITE dialog that lives a long time, with infrequen= t use of the media path, and an endpoint there could quite reasonably sleep= ). Then the text in this spec (and I think the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> code in any implementation) would become much simple= r.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > We can for sure allow this also in INVITE dialogs.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > However, in VoIP sessions it is not needed, as the UA wi= ll be awake during the session, so I don't think we shall mandate it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 One thing to keep in mind is that, for incoming sessions towa= rds the UA, the push proxy needs to make a decision whether to add a Record= -Route before it gets any indication from the UA.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now, the UA could still indicate in the 2xx response that it = does not want to receive mid-dialog push requests, but the proxy cannot &qu= ot;undo" the Record-Route.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Christer




=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 9/18/18 6:37 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Pull request created:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/23
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I call the new parameter PURK (Proxy Uniqu= e Registration Key), but let
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > me know if you have a better suggestion :)=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Christer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On 18/09/18 03:29, "Paul Kyzivat"= ; <pkyzivat@a= lum.mit.edu> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 9/17/18 3:58 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Hi,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= have put together initial text to support mid-dialog NOTIFY request.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= put everything in a dedicated section.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>> I= f people are ok with the approach, I will create a proper pull request.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> I hav= e one concern about this:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> The d= oc says that the PRID must be unique. But it doesn't state the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> scope= of uniqueness. It looks to me that until now the PRID only had
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> to be= unique among PRID values issued by the same PNS. (At least if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> we as= sume that a given UA only uses one PNS.) But the new text for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> subsc= ription dialogs expands the requirement. Now the PRID must be unique
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> among= all dialogs managed by the push proxy. These might involve multiple PNSs.<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> It is= hard to ensure uniqueness of PRID values across multiple PNSs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>> since= the format is left entirely up to the PNS. I think this needs more conside= ration.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>> We can in= clude more information in the SUBSCRIBE, if needed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> Certainly mor= e info there is needed. But I also think more needs to be said up front and= first specification of PRID,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> that global u= niqueness is required, across *all* PNSs. But beyond that, I don't see = how it can be left to each individual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> PNS to specif= y how it is going to guarantee that its values are unique from those of oth= er PNSs. Seems like each PNS needs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> to have a dis= tinct namespace somehow.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Even though I thi= nk that PRIDs will be globally unique in reality, we can't mandate in t= he speciation. But, for normal push cases that is not a problem, since ther= e are additional pn- parameters.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Anyway, if people= are ok with Roman's suggestion of the proxy generating a random value = (not a gruu) I think that would probably be a better solution.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yes, I agree it is a b= etter solution.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________= __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sipcore@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip= core


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore= @ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


=C2=A0

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[209.85.210.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n79-v6sm56623230pfh.2.2018.09.21.14.08.46 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f182.google.com with SMTP id k19-v6so6504210pfi.1 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e09:: with SMTP id u9-v6mr43743721pgu.294.1537564126312; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:08:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:08:45 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009180600576680b5a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 21:08:49 -0000 --0000000000009180600576680b5a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > >This update looks good. The only remaining question is should proxy > generated >new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically based on > local policy. In RFC >5627, temp-gruu was generated on each binding > refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand. > > > > Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I don=E2=80= =99t > think we should mandate a new value for each refresh. > > > In this case, current update looks good to me. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009180600576680b5a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holm= berg@ericsson.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

>This update= looks good. The only remaining question is should proxy generated >new PURK on each binding refresh o= r periodically based on local policy. In RFC >5627, temp-gruu was generated on e= ach binding refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand.

=C2=A0

Since the frequency of binding refres= hes can vary quite much, I don=E2=80=99t think we should mandate a new valu= e for each refresh.


In this case, current update looks good to me.

<= /div>
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000009180600576680b5a-- From nobody Sat Sep 22 22:20:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10EF1130E7A for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VaYLSw1inYJ0 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EE3F128C65 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id y18-v6so4476645pge.0 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=K+/PhCOR0rWqn9wR1K3lQTS9DvBfx+2ldww5rvFpJtc=; b=dbvU4Ggae5hBcZ8Vk0O9Coig1j4aqkm7pQyiAqLYkvQol/+iIv37aTcDb2RO4TJLAK P71rPvS4GzH97nxnD8VbTCE/qkJhKEesc2Y7fRUELceUGlgQ6JHI0lIx5b/x0rL+RNrg mLLTvjj2jzPc5BYw2ZTGPY4VCQyqXLPTd+QKbGPk3FZhGbTx1b2JBe1WmSL9YfePUJ6E dEck4zhuP4K4EFFSlEWI5wnU4H2nSW/TrGPGHY+e4LDiQfI+IpnoWLN4EBpyVlr3bFJ2 PZTi4yMxE4xtTcofGhqwseeqrwtUQIi7IRMY/7ZY8IYiZMug6xhzADtp79I5hfuxSa7n gkvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=K+/PhCOR0rWqn9wR1K3lQTS9DvBfx+2ldww5rvFpJtc=; b=a/+IjGdmFURSs5OHwh5cWwXgn6Noju8lqCmBiXauvKPRad4hzH+h5m10fApTarKKyP 62/6h8eZ2k/0vpzGl3sxQr1ndzZZUxeCRlbDBzox4oUb9ADB/Ph06T6LteI99EvvpGMZ K+ZJt8NJXOKGN4eKZoswem5RX/xIs91S5THWUBq4gdDju1MGdtl9wxBpjJJbmo7PdYVE VxbrXMMDU9QBCFFcxogn6AKGeqF/KObx+wv8oEp8ww/XfUw9NCsBgE/NpLEJq/dsZxmj iV4rAZDQmeECadfhtfWBrIiMuJfJyU+5xeHhzuV6xoFKQPLyjCgrOL+g+gfD8eTDLkb0 MFsw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojUTmCyYJWN8EuTNpXYLloIMPQLtNOqJHuxXUuHHbkanXo2WOdn Iy/upZ8rl5XCHekCAnMgx+ix0SgZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63sD3y36wGGmcaFVubNlwZls/OBzUYLge8O1hh43hhvJggHE49kzHuwYjhBcXWvrDhHnkvyoQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:4c43:: with SMTP id l3-v6mr4394306pgr.451.1537680047604; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l6-v6sm42888891pfl.169.2018.09.22.22.20.46 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:20:47 -0700 (PDT) To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 14:20:42 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180922-4, 2018/09/22), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 05:20:50 -0000 Hi, This is generally a matter of a negotiation, therefor it is desirable not to deviate from rules about an offer-answer and a target-refresh. So, I think that it is better to return 200 response without SE to UPDATE received by caller. Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/22 0:48, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Without having the RFC in front of me my initial reaction regarding 4) would be that whatever is in the 200 INVITE is irrelevant and can be discarded. > > Regards, > > Christer > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 21 Sep 2018, at 18.29, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >>> On 9/21/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>> Hi, >>> So, perhaps we could say: >>> If there is an ongoing s-e negotiation, any target refresh request sent when that negotiation is ongoing must reflect the s-e roles. >>> That would allow to negotiate s-e with UPDATE even if the INVITE did not include s-e. >> Then what happens in this case: >> >> 1) invite with no S-E >> 2) update with S-E >> 3) 200 update with S-E >> 4) 200 invite - what goes here? >> 5) afterwards, is timer active? >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >>> Regards, >>> Christer >>> *From: *Roman Shpount >>> *Date: *Thursday 20 September 2018 at 23:53 >>> *To: *Christer Holmberg >>> *Cc: *"pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" , "sipcore@ietf.org" >>> *Subject: *Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope >>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Christer Holmberg > wrote: >>> >> So, are you aware of implementations that would send UPDATE in >>> the backwards direction >>> >> (towards the sender of the INVITE), while the INVITE is still >>> ongoing, in order to negotiate session timer? >>> > >>> > I am aware of implementations that use UPDATE during the initial >>> INVITE transaction and include session timer >>> > headers in this UPDATE, specifically OpenSIPS based scripts that >>> put or update Session-Expires header on all >>> > UPDATE or INVITE requests which pass through them. >>> Both endpoints send these UPDATEs? >>> There scenarios when either UA originating or accepting the call is sending UPDATE messages. Neither initial INVITE no UPDATE message actually have the S-E header, but it gets added to all INVITE or UPDATE requests by the proxy which is located on the call path. >>> Regards, >>> _____________ >>> Roman Shpount > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Sat Sep 22 22:37:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75220130E88 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UlIGEUPBLtNJ for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E243130E86 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id x17-v6so7689585pfh.5 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZJ9VCGejg5R8FEaGhRflGSIcdDf0uo7MjQa7w2b0xEE=; b=mZpGJQJhOMTLOODuAreS0DDIbI12dP4ugWKjDgu6/XcTH25t+/a1oRqDYQnKRwH9hp wfJA8WU7Qetcbf8x+8szgf9OVv4St+vtbqJQr5iAHCQzTaoKTToQ8vIbQEH4KAS+M55x JpFjj+aWC9yrdMNtc+Ypes1+9Hn/z7EDwWttDDqSKPDkvfNDZ6T7ZLHQ6XLIMpb7w1iY p40v3Sb6vfy1SB96tD2250Vz8GeXKzagFFbK0NZZ/FP1y+dCEGT/kIwJSd6GeXkXxHJ2 vLHC1/c3NaLjPT/BRfgrqe98Akqnt8T4IoqYf9mdYfP2e9cKoZ0ZRRmWP/AKM44VUPlW qLGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZJ9VCGejg5R8FEaGhRflGSIcdDf0uo7MjQa7w2b0xEE=; b=qEgw0dovhUh+n/QoKZxWCkzaACe7HMO1u9qFcuSF6LVR1Q4U1Ywb5J4hRZu/3VtRIg fNIdTn4qrcKw92y/ugwXO0C8PjYWc8/UtrhQB26JN+HToDHajlWJxV/p5MxPtI9qBBnV XCC6UrKJx6YZ65zj1RspgVI6D31vWQsYoOeww4JBHng1TMTq43mrYz5NxKWhRgPwMZIb AqH6uUgDCEe6zaOGDa9HKoFfarwSU4KN9bVpqkfKWBbXBHPjQiQrm7wfxKwt8EYC20Ab 3bWm7NbUx/jo9MpHu5QrSx8ogFHQ/KWBbLlCYivO4hmsgtnbEsgkav7RvQoKAjKP/A0h BvMA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51AXSBexMU6nuBNvwk2++swqqxY/Q7hMl25EgaPDSQ1tYFk26obT QwVo3zn9yy/al/vq8+Sf/pM9kTg78qw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vdaao0B/O2Jv2ceSZJginwupe64J3Bf/2fUjjj3wNP/JnCKaTMlAvAslJUnlO2TOzOadlCNgcQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:8186:: with SMTP id t128-v6mr4911034pfd.192.1537681065403; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-f181.google.com (mail-pf1-f181.google.com. [209.85.210.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n22-v6sm178338pfi.185.2018.09.22.22.37.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id j8-v6so7688325pff.6 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:dc17:: with SMTP id s23-v6mr4533666pgg.40.1537681064143; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 22:37:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 01:37:43 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b33c505768345a8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 05:37:49 -0000 --0000000000009b33c505768345a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:20 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > This is generally a matter of a negotiation, therefor it is desirable not > to deviate from rules about an offer-answer and a target-refresh. > So, I think that it is better to return 200 response without SE to UPDATE > received by caller. > This is not always possible. S-E is added by proxy which has no way of knowing if UDPATE is sent during or outside of the INIVITE transaction. Since UPDATE can turn session timer on or off, S-E is added to UPDATE request by the proxy. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009b33c505768345a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:20 AM, OK= UMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
This is genera= lly a matter of a negotiation, therefor it is desirable not to deviate from= rules about an offer-answer and a target-refresh.
So, I think that it is better to return 200 response without SE to UPDATE r= eceived by caller.

This is not always p= ossible. S-E is added by proxy which has no way of knowing if UDPATE is sen= t during or outside of the INIVITE transaction. Since UPDATE can turn sessi= on timer on or off, S-E is added to UPDATE request by the proxy.=C2=A0

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpou= nt
--0000000000009b33c505768345a8-- From nobody Sat Sep 22 23:45:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C553E130E94 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id reZLpR1TvHp8 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EC2C1294D7 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id d4-v6so7733714pfn.0 for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DK2zAT/rWESSSYXX14crNj1Unm/QELDEbaRZGxxzB6c=; b=XqBZSrEERqJvKCk/icuiKa1DdxWC7zBZDyHFblHoP0BqJzWs3eb689Rn0vw8DPAF2E XhVSGteO7BNxbCsl0FKOmCzvqlAAERkcxr6oRa1mdTSjninpnGuKxf5prF2p9lscU36y CRof3S+iLWY//gZDINkoDJbJ+Mjkr3VnJGMZPyNGXGRyAnFO7ndy8nBBwGx4j80b2mH+ zo0f2IiQA41HUQiHLPfvgtRMJ6LcN1yhKa7HaIgVFf2KoClaqPvZgzTJ5mNoj1USnbu9 SbG5Q0EmjVUQ/ow3RI5Uq7QxZ7+mE8M+umGkpxMi/zryJfhGTPQml3Y1ep2E7yZllekW E4UQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DK2zAT/rWESSSYXX14crNj1Unm/QELDEbaRZGxxzB6c=; b=pim5EyXB5pS5ZJhMUaNDqZi/MkiP3aPv9xxY1tpxYgz2CxDtHPGDOI6G72B0t8vNK/ f0Mq0QEhnnPtroTsl511x8TvkmuJkfWn+s6ZYH+e7qfhlc+ZYuEj4+dVBsxA1WQkW2WW 7Mb4y+VNAYN8xunL8esTzEf7v5HxlD4EqH/A5lcwx4PrvG+gzGJ+96IFSQt/sX3f1nKD BDUpmOl8Gqq2DRj1lgSTAH16Uq+46AC7Q39uD8lbn+ufRxy1Jwo2FovkXRwQ0YbI5Yc1 j3+Dl/HThl4elkYgOJxBAhD+iObE3Ac5NxqV4BKQULwtPQaNGhtTcymAnIP1ykVfSJ1f FN/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiz82T4+cQdqYDFNoPbrDpfwhpYZOsQwOSlaILNPIdn80XTVqKi hVxkOwzYD0siJX39eGlAZJAhm/hr X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62jFxENCSGHC6VZ4NfKhD0ZII8VX9rRssKtv2nAIvolzJvn0xmGZTs4oOJMGIVIbMJaok0Lwg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:906:: with SMTP id 6-v6mr4576854pgj.92.1537685148744; Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t65-v6sm1310911pfk.23.2018.09.22.23.45.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Sep 2018 23:45:48 -0700 (PDT) To: SIPCORE References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: Roman Shpount Message-ID: <6c1326b0-96df-7507-339c-a4152cfee2ea@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:45:43 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------01D3403D0B0F0F673999B552" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180922-4, 2018/09/22), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 06:45:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------01D3403D0B0F0F673999B552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roman, Does it mean that there is no way to stop the timer reliably? Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/23 14:37, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:20 AM, OKUMURA Shinji > wrote: > > This is generally a matter of a negotiation, therefor it is > desirable not to deviate from rules about an offer-answer and a > target-refresh. > So, I think that it is better to return 200 response without SE to > UPDATE received by caller. > > > This is not always possible. S-E is added by proxy which has no way of > knowing if UDPATE is sent during or outside of the INIVITE > transaction. Since UPDATE can turn session timer on or off, S-E is > added to UPDATE request by the proxy. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount --------------01D3403D0B0F0F673999B552 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Roman,

Does it mean that there is no way to stop the timer reliably?

Regards,
Shinji

On 2018/09/23 14:37, Roman Shpount wrote:
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:20 AM, OKUMURA Shinji <ietf.shinji@gmail.com> wrote:
This is generally a matter of a negotiation, therefor it is desirable not to deviate from rules about an offer-answer and a target-refresh.
So, I think that it is better to return 200 response without SE to UPDATE received by caller.

This is not always possible. S-E is added by proxy which has no way of knowing if UDPATE is sent during or outside of the INIVITE transaction. Since UPDATE can turn session timer on or off, S-E is added to UPDATE request by the proxy. 

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

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[209.85.214.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u13-v6sm44315583pfn.59.2018.09.23.15.44.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 30-v6so1609033plb.10 for ; Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:402:: with SMTP id 2-v6mr8013304ple.277.1537742669114; Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Sep 2018 15:44:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:44:28 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008c71d10576919db1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 22:44:33 -0000 --0000000000008c71d10576919db1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > The proxy knows if the INVITE request contained S-E, doesn=E2=80=99t it? > > > > If so, it would know that it is not relevant what is in the 200 OK. > Proxy knows that it added S-E in the INVITE request but it does not necessarily knows that UPDATE transaction was processed. In Paul's example 200 OK response to INVITE should negotiate the same thing that 200 OK to UPDATE. It is the S-E header in 200 OK which will control the session timer state at the end, so it it changes the refresher or stops the session timer, it will modify the session timer for the entire dialog. This is no different then target refresh. UPDATE request or success response update target. INVITE request or success response update target. The last one of those that UA got contains the Contact header which dialog should use. I believe the same logic should apply to session timer. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000008c71d10576919db1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:52 AM, C= hrister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

The proxy knows if the INVITE request contai= ned S-E, doesn=E2=80=99t it?

=C2=A0

If so, it would know that it is not r= elevant what is in the 200 OK.


=
Proxy knows that it added S-E in the INVITE request but it does = not necessarily knows that UPDATE transaction was processed.

=
In Paul's example 200 OK response to INVITE should negotiate= the same thing that 200 OK to UPDATE. It is the S-E header in 200 OK which= will control the session timer state at the end, so it it changes the refr= esher or stops the session timer, it will modify the session timer for the = entire dialog.

This is no different then target re= fresh. UPDATE request or success response update target. INVITE request or = success response update target. The last one of those that UA got contains = the Contact header which dialog should use. I believe the same logic should= apply to session timer.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000008c71d10576919db1-- From nobody Sun Sep 23 23:16:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBED130DD8 for ; Sun, 23 Sep 2018 23:16:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P41VTyWyybIM for ; Sun, 23 Sep 2018 23:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net 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(Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 65.1C.05037.E4188AB5; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:16:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:16:46 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:16:46 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwAAC7sHgAAFWUoCAEp2vQAAAJgkgAAXiQWQAAxS1wAAFmsJAA== Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 06:16:45 +0000 Message-ID: <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> 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[209.85.214.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o17-v6sm13455674pgc.30.2018.09.24.08.24.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id q1-v6so3782720plr.4 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:24:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr11074856plb.142.1537802640926; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:24:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:24:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:24:00 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025ad0905769f94b7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 15:24:05 -0000 --00000000000025ad0905769f94b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Why is there such a need to re-negotiate/remove the session timer while > the initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing??? > There is no need to re-negotiate the session timer while initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing. Typically there is a need to keep session timer running and it is hard for the proxy to know that initial transaction is still ongoing. Anyway, I have no problem including the value in the INVITE 200 OK, if that > works better. > I think the best approach here is to require consistency. Success responses to INVITE or UPDATE should all include the currently negotiated session timer status, even if they are repeated. UPDATE requests during INVITE transaction should include S-E and Min-SE headers from initiate INVITE request if sent by UAC in INVITE transaction or include S-E and Min-SE headers which would be in 2XX response to initial INVITE if sent by UAS in INVITE transaction. The second big question is to define what happens when UA gets inconsistent session timer results, like refresher change between 200 OK responses to INVITE and UPDATE which happened during INVITE transaction. For all I care, UA can declare this an error hang up the call or initiate a new UPDATE that re-negotiates session timer to something consistent. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000025ad0905769f94b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:16 AM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Why is there such a need to re-negotiate/remove the = session timer while the initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing???

<= /div>
=C2=A0
There is no need to re-negoti= ate the session timer while initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing. Ty= pically there is a need to keep session timer running and it is hard for th= e proxy to know that initial transaction is still ongoing.

Anyway, I have no problem inclu= ding the value in the INVITE 200 OK, if that works better.

=

I think the best approach here is to= require consistency. Success responses to INVITE or UPDATE should all incl= ude the currently negotiated session timer status, even if they are repeate= d. UPDATE requests during INVITE transaction should include S-E and Min-SE = headers from initiate INVITE request if sent by UAC in INVITE transaction o= r=20
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--00000000000025ad0905769f94b7-- From nobody Mon Sep 24 11:31:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603AD130F33 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:31:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8ENE-LAdqxN for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net 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(Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.117]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 85.65.12695.B6D29AB5; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:31:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:31:07 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:31:07 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwAAC7sHgAAFWUoCAEp2vQAAAJgkgAAXiQWQAAxS1wAAFmsJAAAMfX0AAAqrmdA= Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:31:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> 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[209.85.210.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q25-v6sm39983pfk.96.2018.09.24.11.35.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f174.google.com with SMTP id a23-v6so1723111pfi.12 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:35:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:b0e:: with SMTP id t14-v6mr117472pfi.36.1537814129927; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:35:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:35:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:35:29 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f1f1910576a24018" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:35:40 -0000 --000000000000f1f1910576a24018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > One of the clarification in the current version of the draft says that a > 2xx response without S-E terminates the session timer only if the > associated request contained S-E. > > > > That means that it would be ok to send UPDATEs without S-E, both inside > and outside of an ongoing INVITE transaction. > > > I do not think this is a good idea, primarily since INVITE request may contain or not contain S-E header at different points when it is transferring multiple proxies. As a result, session timer might be considered terminated or not terminated at the same time. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000f1f1910576a24018 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

One of the clarification in the current vers= ion of the draft says that a 2xx response without S-E terminates the sessio= n timer only if the associated request contained S-E.

=C2=A0

That means that it would be ok to sen= d UPDATEs without S-E, both inside and outside of an ongoing INVITE transac= tion.



I do not think this is a good idea, primarily since INVITE request may con= tain or not contain S-E header at different points when it is transferring = multiple proxies. As a result, session timer might be considered terminated= or not terminated at the same time.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--000000000000f1f1910576a24018-- From nobody Mon Sep 24 13:23:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A349E1310E0; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:23:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153782058361.1157.17244664636930389976@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:23:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-04.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:23:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating CDIV session case in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author : Marianne Mohali Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-04.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-09-24 Abstract: The P-Served-User header field is used to convey the identity of the served user and the session case that applies to this particular communication session and application invocation. This document updates RFC5502 by defining a new P-Served-User header field parameter, "orig-cdiv". The parameter conveys the session case used by a proxy when handling an originating session after Call Diversion (CDIV) services have been invoked for the served user. This document also fixes the ABNF in RFC 5502 and provides more guidance for using the P-Served-User header field in IP networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 24 13:32:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE960130F8E; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:32:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ib0C2n9ltI-V; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77162130E60; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42JwqV6J8tzBs7X; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 22:32:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.58]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42JwqV5Vgsz1xnY; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 22:32:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::3881:fc15:b4b2:9017%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 22:32:22 +0200 From: To: "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter Thread-Index: AdRURNLXdyEIXowJQceFoFCZbpVN4Q== Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:32:21 +0000 Message-ID: <30748_1537821142_5BA949D6_30748_17_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010OPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] New version (-04) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:32:27 -0000 --_000_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I've submitted a new version of the draft after Ben's review. Main changes between -03 and -04 are: -Addition of short definitions for "session case" and "filter criteria" -IANA considerations section is moved down. -security section is completed with more explanations on the trust domain a= spect for the header. -Editorials The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parame= ter/ Best regards, Marianne ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I've submitted a new version= of the draft after Ben's review.

 

Main changes between -03 and= -04  are:

-Addition of short definitio= ns for “session case” and “filter criteria”

-IANA considerations section= is moved down.

-security section is complet= ed with more explanations on the trust domain aspect for the header.

-Editorials

 

The IETF datatracker status = page for this draft is:

https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/=

 

Best regards,

Marianne

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB849E21010OPEXCLILMA4corp_-- From nobody Tue Sep 25 01:20:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94361131255 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 01:20:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B8altZthjOxl for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 01:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net 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ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.120]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 26.3F.21978.7CFE9AB5; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:20:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.163) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:20:19 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:20:19 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwAAC7sHgAAFWUoCAEp2vQAAAJgkgAAXiQWQAAxS1wAAFmsJAAAMfX0AAAqrmdD//+AjgIABGJgA Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:20:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3376EE38-7FB8-4E52-B280-4AC63CED5521@ericsson.com> References: 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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C651312F3 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:42:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TCWasYZIZlFW for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE5C131303 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-b03ff70000007a70-c3-5baa57441501 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id E3.31.31344.4475AAB5; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 11:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8PFftqW021112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 11:41:56 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <3798d6e2-a83e-9698-51d3-cc88b95280d7@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 11:41:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqOsSviraYONBM4uvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEro+VAA1PBHJGKZ79nMjUwNgl0MXJySAiYSDzbuJixi5GLQ0hg B5PEtp972SGcH0wSD/bsZASpEhYwlVi9sZ0dxBYREJF4Nv0fG0TRO3aJE//fMoMk2AS0JOYc +s8CYvMK2Evc/POYCcRmEVCVaH77FcwWFUiT+Nu5hBGiRlDi5MwnYPWcAjYSU7+vAFvALGAm MW/zQ2YIW1zi1pP5TBC2vETz1tnMExj5ZyFpn4WkZRaSlllIWhYwsqxilEvMKc3VzU3MzClO TdYtTk7My0st0jXTy80s0UtNKd3ECAlMoR2M60/KHWIU4GBU4uHdYLUqWog1say4MvcQoyQH k5Io72MuoBBfUn5KZUZicUZ8UWlOavEhRgkOZiURXiU+oBxvSmJlVWpRPkxKmoNFSZyX2WRv lJBAemJJanZqakFqEUxWhoNDSYL3TihQo2BRanpqRVpmTglCmomDE2Q4D9Dw4yA1vMUFibnF mekQ+VOMxhx7vjbNYObYdqZzBrMQS15+XqqUOK9rGFCpAEhpRmke3DRYcnnFKA70nDAvG0gV DzAxwc17BbSKCWjVhJ4VIKtKEhFSUg2MkRd97s7bzJimJfxxxoo+d3bW1lOX9hV4lTDt33ip RNRKs2vW8f+bfGWK6+9xOnPcbEuIc1zIs2rac7EnM20PKoiEXeJYf9jo1kOtudetMx4xbeO2 vTfdqq1uab+t1f2bYXGqqww83rud6Wh0PGUc2jxn/mrfbW87bh/8d8RnTW4fV9yDqlpWJZbi jERDLeai4kQA2jaIOgkDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 15:42:01 -0000 On 9/24/18 2:31 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > One of the clarification in the current version of the draft says that a > 2xx response without S-E terminates the session timer only if the > associated request contained S-E. > > That means that it would be ok to send UPDATEs without S-E, both inside > and outside of an ongoing INVITE transaction. That can't be right. It would mean that there is no way to for a UAC to cause the termination of a currently established session timer. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > *From:*Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com] > *Sent:* 24 September 2018 18:24 > *To:* Christer Holmberg > *Cc:* OKUMURA Shinji ; SIPCORE > *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > Why is there such a need to re-negotiate/remove the session timer > while the initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing??? > > There is no need to re-negotiate the session timer while initial INVITE > transaction is still ongoing. Typically there is a need to keep session > timer running and it is hard for the proxy to know that initial > transaction is still ongoing. > > Anyway, I have no problem including the value in the INVITE 200 OK, > if that works better. > > I think the best approach here is to require consistency. Success > responses to INVITE or UPDATE should all include the currently > negotiated session timer status, even if they are repeated. UPDATE > requests during INVITE transaction should include S-E and Min-SE headers > from initiate INVITE request if sent by UAC in INVITE transaction or >  include S-E and Min-SE headers which would be in 2XX response to > initial INVITE if sent by UAS in INVITE transaction. > > The second big question is to define what happens when UA gets > inconsistent session timer results, like refresher change between 200 OK > responses to INVITE and UPDATE which happened during INVITE transaction. > For all I care, UA can declare this an error hang up the call or > initiate a new UPDATE that re-negotiates session timer to something > consistent. > > Regards, > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Tue Sep 25 08:52:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEAD131304 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpHlOnGd362w for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41F4B1312F4 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id j26-v6so11519675pfi.10 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=inIcrg47q8Z0hasoKuVNRO/20P8WMXBysmE6mOfZdTI=; b=rN5t3ljBC4tObi05+fM/CDWfXNYo1pC7k8OCQ04fPDfj/BG/ky/1fbNVLDkOTFzNPD dDPsqUt/eZ/kprbMVkamB2DoNQRCW6vw08rFxNSH4gyMdFUUKaf6t3Y4KmFtJyG8UVYN Ezum5PD3xqtzeTzUzAvIACqC0OZCyZprBEu+IzVp+rTaZCSD2YrZ2uAad67CtJgKPPw3 hHJ2PV8cJG7C5+yR3V1tcJl/K6NlfNiXyrpjlPEQHwqLP9LJ6XXid8unQJZEyWqGMXyw txlQGamxuI3Mfn5DVDi5jjoqveX1IIA3XMjdPuC25fwD9bcxUK1j2DtbL3lM3fPe7ILh S9kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=inIcrg47q8Z0hasoKuVNRO/20P8WMXBysmE6mOfZdTI=; b=Yfooug8jyJE/3K8rwac8z0FfmATqtBZ/Uvf9etQpQPF0NOyAr6HrD8NWBQmIxe+neq 02b9K2EnsRr/d2DuL39weG4NgVjfHdZnQnLoJO3tQRNcT38lsXDRvetuucG6qFKVo0Da cicMc3Nc0EHUgevqaESuePU1VaXmNtPv0YBE5jzawmdKKwGAPS561wa8x/TzA48FLw+C +1CwNcvSFpnMzfLIXmmp+cmCjGVQu4oEBal2Yu5xpVcAs3xeHnpVveMVlShxFA9PYUd2 Q3E4ZF31JZdU+rhg785Ovg6FuN+5bKTsJsvMlxuDUVpCliFYAQIF+BEGoHNb6Edazbt2 ooWg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohaMu2mU31NkFUbQDrGN1pOb9fd+ktY0/UgH0PZc/2FH0IpyNrv rjK4m8ItV28PEXMmedhkSg+R2X+NpUw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60hTq9lb3KbyQdh6f0CabtGeMttlfIMetFTXjMhftERzcERrKeYzlNJ4eEFIBVzFBym1jhmyA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:982:: with SMTP id 124-v6mr1706056pgj.80.1537890735559; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-f169.google.com (mail-pf1-f169.google.com. [209.85.210.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q6-v6sm3512746pgq.19.2018.09.25.08.52.14 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f169.google.com with SMTP id k21-v6so11516086pff.11 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr1860759plb.142.1537890733983; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d588:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3376EE38-7FB8-4E52-B280-4AC63CED5521@ericsson.com> References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> <3376EE38-7FB8-4E52-B280-4AC63CED5521@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 11:52:13 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e7108c0576b41650" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 15:52:19 -0000 --000000000000e7108c0576b41650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 4:20 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> One of the clarification in the current version of the draft says that > a 2xx response without S-E terminates the session timer only if the > associated request contained S-E. > >> > >> That means that it would be ok to send UPDATEs without S-E, both inside > and outside of an ongoing INVITE transaction. > > > > I do not think this is a good idea, primarily since INVITE request may > contain or not contain S-E header at different points when it is > > transferring multiple proxies. As a result, session timer might be > considered terminated or not terminated at the same time. > > I think we had already agreed on this already, and I think it is strange > to mandate S-E in the response if it is not in the request. Do you have a > case where it doesn't work? > I do not think we agreed about this. This is a breaking change and it is not how session-timer currently works. Session timer serves almost no purpose for UA. It is needed for proxies to maintain state. Because of this, UA almost always sends initial INVITE without S-E. S-E header is added by proxies to requests, and negotiation is done based on presence of S-E in the success response regardless of presence of S-E in the request. Because of this: 1. S-E should cause session timer renegotiation based on its presence (or absence) in any success response to INVITE of UPDATE 2. If session timer is negotiated, S-E should be present in any INVITE or UPDATE request with the current refresher role The only things which are in play are: 1. Should S-E be present in the UPDATE request or success response which is sent while INVITE transaction (re-)negotiating session timer is still in progress? 2. What should UA do when it gets ambiguous S-E header values in intersecting INVITE and UPDATE transactions? Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000e7108c0576b41650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 4:20 AM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> One of the clarification in the current ve= rsion of the draft says that a 2xx response without S-E terminates the sess= ion timer only if the associated request contained S-E.
>>
>> That means that it would be ok to send UPDATEs without S-E, both i= nside and outside of an ongoing INVITE transaction.
>
> I do not think this is a good idea, primarily since INVITE request may= contain or not contain S-E header at different points when it is
> transferring multiple proxies. As a result, session timer might be con= sidered terminated or not terminated at the same time.

I think we had already agreed on this already, and I think it is str= ange to mandate S-E in the response if it is not in the request. Do you hav= e a case where it doesn't work?

I d= o not think we agreed about this. This is a breaking change and it is not h= ow session-timer currently works. Session timer serves almost no purpose fo= r UA. It is needed for proxies to maintain state. Because of this, UA almos= t always sends initial INVITE without S-E. S-E header is added by proxies t= o requests, and negotiation is done based on presence of S-E in the success= response regardless of presence of S-E in the request.

Because of this:
1. S-E should cause session timer renegoti= ation based on its presence (or absence) in any success response to INVITE = of UPDATE
2. If session timer is negotiated, S-E should be presen= t in any INVITE or UPDATE request with the current refresher role

The only things which are in play are:
1. Should = S-E be present in the UPDATE request or success response which is sent whil= e INVITE transaction (re-)negotiating session timer is still in progress?
2. What should UA do when it gets ambiguous S-E header values in i= ntersecting INVITE and UPDATE transactions?

Regard= s,
_____________
Roman Shpount


=C2=A0
--000000000000e7108c0576b41650-- From nobody Tue Sep 25 09:22:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB925131320 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:22:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8V-alRmq9pS9 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using 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by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AF.B7.22015.4D06AAB5; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:22:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:22:44 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:22:44 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope Thread-Index: AQHUUOOhajruu/8XzUC/xvWItvF6LaT5T+wAgAA9QeD//+jLAIAAIbxw///gkoCAACwg0P//4D6AABrBqwAAC7sHgAAFWUoCAEp2vQAAAJgkgAAXiQWQAAxS1wAAFmsJAAAMfX0AAAqrmdAAKD8ygAAFlXag Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 16:22:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <004c2b11f5644a0b98f7e81fccbf28a6@ericsson.com> 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YWxsIG9yIA0KPiBpbml0aWF0ZSBhIG5ldyBVUERBVEUgdGhhdCByZS1uZWdvdGlhdGVzIHNlc3Np b24gdGltZXIgdG8gc29tZXRoaW5nIA0KPiBjb25zaXN0ZW50Lg0KPiANCj4gUmVnYXJkcywNCj4g DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gUm9tYW4gU2hwb3VudA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gc2lwY29yZSBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gc2lwY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NpcGNvcmUNCj4gDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpzaXBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0Kc2lwY29yZUBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zaXBjb3JlDQo= From nobody Tue Sep 25 10:00:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A86130E26 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:00:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqzTRu0Q4KfY for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.7.68.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DCC8130E22 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:00:26 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440c-0fdff700000033ca-4f-5baa69a7d023 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 3F.A8.13258.8A96AAB5; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8PH0MSh025237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 25 Sep 2018 13:00:23 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <381E4232-6DF0-4296-962E-26E691331461@ericsson.com> <1C610815-4415-4580-A9C4-1534EC588EB4@ericsson.com> <492ebc7f-e68b-a191-c658-46b15889f178@alum.mit.edu> <5726FB3F-840D-4E91-861D-7E6B491B3F53@ericsson.com> <8c71cab0-ad7e-3b63-9ed5-d0dbe994ffcb@gmail.com> <9d015c6abfdc46739dcaf0f4945b4dfa@ericsson.com> <45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> <3798d6e2-a83e-9698-51d3-cc88b95280d7@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 13:00:22 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLsic1W0Qc8PQ4sLMw8zWnz9sYnN gcnj19erbB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MqYv/Ybe8FrmYqvC5+yNDA2iXcxcnBICJhI 3NiQ2sXIySEksINJou2ndhcjF5D9kEni/ue3zCAJYQFTidUb29lBbBGBNImeif3sEEV32SWO rdzPBJJgE9CSmHPoPwuIzStgL9Hy7xQbiM0ioCpxe89CsGZRoOa/nUsYIWoEJU7OfAJWzylg I9HdNJUVxGYWMJOYt/khM4QtLnHryXwmCFteonnrbOYJjPyzkLTPQtIyC0nLLCQtCxhZVjHK JeaU5urmJmbmFKcm6xYnJ+blpRbpGurlZpbopaaUbmKEBCrPDsZv62QOMQpwMCrx8G6wWhUt xJpYVlyZe4hRkoNJSZT3MRdQiC8pP6UyI7E4I76oNCe1+BCjBAezkgivEh9QjjclsbIqtSgf JiXNwaIkzstqsjdKSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJivDwaEkwbsyA6hRsCg1PbUiLTOnBCHNxMEJMpwH aPgJkBre4oLE3OLMdIj8KUZjjj1fm2Ywc2w70zmDWYglLz8vVUqc9xdIqQBIaUZpHtw0WLJ5 xSgO9Jwwby5IFQ8wUcHNewW0iglo1YSeFSCrShIRUlINjKG3DS8k/Vm4v2VP7nLehUc2Z7Dl n3u7Pap1mdS3ghI9pR0lCxSjfnXNzTp0/ulH4xeLWauLF3Ct2Fp8ZcZp00/xN0q/z3sXujlY Q2xSozR7BQePR1RlgHnrfoMDK59vyVqS+UehgXunNY+qWNWCE4vkZ33u3nPpb364487DOXZn H+652ORUqqTEUpyRaKjFXFScCACvtss8EQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 17:00:30 -0000 On 9/25/18 12:22 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>> One of the clarification in the current version of the draft says that >>> a 2xx response without S-E terminates the session timer only if the >>> associated request contained S-E. >>> >>> That means that it would be ok to send UPDATEs without S-E, both >>> inside and outside of an ongoing INVITE transaction. >> >> That can't be right. It would mean that there is no way to for a UAC to cause the termination of a currently established session timer. > > How does the UAC currently terminate the timer? Not including S-E in a request does not terminate the timer, AFAIK. The only way the UAC can *force* the termination of the timer is to cease declaring support for it. But if it doesn't want it, it can *try* by sending a new INVITE/UPDATE without S-E. If none of the proxies on the path now request one then it can go away. I would expect that a UA that prefers not to have a timer will do this at every opportunity - every time it sends an INVITE/UPDATE. But this is a place where we have the opportunity to say what it should do when sending an UPDATE within an INVITE. As Roman has noted, the UAC can't know if S-E was added to the original request by a proxy, and so it can't use the presence of S-E in the request it sent to determine whether the absence of S-E in a response should cancel the timer. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > > > >> *From:*Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com] >> *Sent:* 24 September 2018 18:24 >> *To:* Christer Holmberg >> *Cc:* OKUMURA Shinji ; SIPCORE >> >> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] session-timer fix - a new hope >> >> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg >> > > >> wrote: >> >> Why is there such a need to re-negotiate/remove the session timer >> while the initial INVITE transaction is still ongoing??? >> >> There is no need to re-negotiate the session timer while initial >> INVITE transaction is still ongoing. Typically there is a need to keep >> session timer running and it is hard for the proxy to know that >> initial transaction is still ongoing. >> >> Anyway, I have no problem including the value in the INVITE 200 OK, >> if that works better. >> >> I think the best approach here is to require consistency. Success >> responses to INVITE or UPDATE should all include the currently >> negotiated session timer status, even if they are repeated. UPDATE >> requests during INVITE transaction should include S-E and Min-SE >> headers from initiate INVITE request if sent by UAC in INVITE >> transaction or >>  include S-E and Min-SE headers which would be in 2XX response to >> initial INVITE if sent by UAS in INVITE transaction. >> >> The second big question is to define what happens when UA gets >> inconsistent session timer results, like refresher change between 200 >> OK responses to INVITE and UPDATE which happened during INVITE transaction. >> For all I care, UA can declare this an error hang up the call or >> initiate a new UPDATE that re-negotiates session timer to something >> consistent. >> >> Regards, >> >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sipcore mailing list >> sipcore@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >> > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Wed Sep 26 02:32:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50834130DD0; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 02:32:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153795437328.21557.17346270587424995464@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 02:32:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:32:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-09-26 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 26 02:45:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D05130E2E for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 02:45:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MiRFTv0WNgSy for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 02:45:20 -0700 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<45A70707-6E9D-47EE-BBE8-E0FE6D9700B3@ericsson.com> <3798d6e2-a83e-9698-51d3-cc88b95280d7@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1D87A08A39372A468B90FB40C1DCD2BF@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7pe6y0tXRBnf/6Vus2HCA1eLrj01s Dkwef99/YPJYsuQnUwBTFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAlfG7altTAWztCv2zHrG1MDYo9XFyMkhIWAi cX9yE0sXIxeHkMBRRoml21sZIZxvjBI/731lBqkSEljGKHF2o2cXIwcHm4CFRPc/bZCwiECg xNUlE8BKhAVMJVZvbGeHiJtJLHu6mAlkjojALkaJf8ffghWxCKhK/P9ygwXE5hWwl5jevIAd Yv5kDon+B+IgNqeAg8T0C9NYQWxGATGJ76fWMIHYzALiEreezGeCuFpAYsme88wQtqjEy8f/ WEFuExXQl5h2OQAirCSxpXcLE0iYWUBTYv0ufYgp1hL9VzewQNiKElO6H7JDXCMocXLmE5YJ jOKzkCybhdA9C0n3LCTds5B0L2BkXcUoWpxanJSbbmSkl1qUmVxcnJ+nl5dasokRGGsHt/w2 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bmcgbGlzdA0KICAgID4gc2lwY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zaXBjb3JlDQogICAgPiANCiAgICANCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Wed Sep 26 05:11:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDB51252B7 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 05:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YSwU9bzQiSs2 for ; Wed, 26 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<2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <462053803FAC5E44942FC56DAAD9A7F8@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iW5S+epog6+T5Cya7nSxWXz9sYnN gcljyZKfTB5tLxUCmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mr7uXcJacMGj4sfdqAbGB25djJwcEgImEh/+ LGbsYuTiEBI4yijx6ukfKOcbo8Sdzl1sEM4yRoljWycBORwcbAIWEt3/tEG6RQQiJFbfPswE YgsL+EksOLSUCSIeKHH7/1oWCNtN4sDzFWwgNouAqsSGR7OYQWxeAXuJa9ta2SHmz2WSuLL6 NytIglMgRmLBh82MIDajgJjE91NrwIYyC4hL3HoynwnibAGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jBblNVEBf YtrlAIiwksSW3i1MIGFmAU2J9bv0IaZYSyz9sYgRwlaUmNL9kB3iHEGJkzOfsExgFJ+FZNks hO5ZSLpnIemehaR7ASPrKkbR4tTi4tx0IyO91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzASDu45bfVDsaDzx0P MQpwMCrx8PLHrY4WYk0sK67MPcQowcGsJMLLXQYU4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+xCjNwaIkzuuU 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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 11:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8QFVj3K000635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 11:31:46 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <153562545519.3315.10133281272170915663@ietfa.amsl.com> <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <56e47bc5-d510-69e6-f297-76c6069c805d@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 11:31:45 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJuybHW0waV+UYuvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY1XDVKaCZfoVv+efZGpgfK3UxcjJISFgIrFh3TNGEFtIYAeT xM9W8S5GLiD7B5NE67KJbCAJYQE/iQWHljKB2CICIhLPpv9jgyg6zSjR/W8pO0iCTUBLYs6h /yxdjBwcvAL2EicOKoCEWQRUJf78OgDWKyqQJvG3cwnYMl4BQYmTM5+wgNicAg4SB1d0g41h FjCTmLf5ITOELS5x68l8JghbXqJ562zmCYz8s5C0z0LSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYxyiXmlObq5iZm 5hSnJusWJyfm5aUW6Rrr5WaW6KWmlG5ihAQl3w7G9vUyhxgFOBiVeHg3WK2KFmJNLCuuzD3E KMnBpCTKq+CzOlqILyk/pTIjsTgjvqg0J7X4EKMEB7OSCO+dKUA53pTEyqrUonyYlDQHi5I4 L5vJ3ighgfTEktTs1NSC1CKYrAwHh5IE78UlQI2CRanpqRVpmTklCGkmDk6Q4TxAw0WXggwv LkjMLc5Mh8ifYtTl2PO1aQazEEtefl6qlDhvEUiRAEhRRmke3BxYMnnFKA70ljBvNUgVDzAR wU16BbSECWjJhJ4VIEtKEhFSUg2MVUFdmh2zdn3Mn3Cx5IvKpb8nj1pzF72SnZWm//JpQu/M wpz87yurIl8c2BfZeT290mjuq+TWPW9/sPJJuO/2jtk8P61kle+zSY9mOu1WPnD7hdzsiFt1 e9kfLfn7+azffddr7f9fr7x+X2ZVxsm8PPfFO44uS1635anPmtcLDd884k3X8OY8EKLEUpyR aKjFXFScCAA2NRtiAQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 15:31:53 -0000 On 9/19/18 10:23 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Roland, > > Section 1 says: > > "To resolve this problem, this extension defines a keepalive mechanism > for SIP sessions. UAs send periodic re-INVITE or UPDATE [3] requests > (referred to as session refresh requests) to keep the session alive." > > So, to me that makes it clear that a session refresh request is sent within an established dialog. To me, this has always had the effect of confusing readers. It *suggests* that certain reINVITE and UPDATE requests are session refresh requests, and others are not. (I know it doesn't say that explicitly, but from numerous comments/questions over the years it is evident that many read it that way.) The goal of session timer is to cause in-dialog requests to be sent periodically as keep-alives - evidence of liveness of the session at the endpoints. It does not *refresh* the session. However, new S-E values in those messages can have the effect of extending the timer. That can be viewed as a "refresh" of the *timer*, not the session. But other messages within the dialog, not triggered by timer expiry, also serve as evidence of liveness of the session. Ideally we would rewrite the whole explanation and change the terminology. I guess this would be a bis. > I agree that "initial" is very confusing, but my initial reaction is that it would be the first session refresh request (as defined above) sent within a session, i.e., the first re-INVITE or UPDATE. ISTM that the *initial* one is the one that first establishes the timer. Most of the time this will be the initial INVITE, and hence won't be a refresh at all. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > On 17/09/18 10:06, "R.Jesske@telekom.de" wrote: > > Hi Christer, > Thank you for Updating the draft. > We see this work as important since we have still problems with implementations of the session timer and a lot of discussion with different SP and Vendors. > > What we realized is that the definition of the "Initial Session Refresh Request" is not clear. > You may interpret it out of the whole RFC but not from the definition. > The definition states: > Initial Session Refresh Request: The first session refresh request > sent with a particular Call-ID value. > > This does not state if it is the Initial INVITE requesting the session timer or if it is the first INVITE refreshing the session? > > The Session Refresh Request is defined as: > Session Refresh Request: An INVITE or UPDATE request processed > according to the rules of this specification. If the request > generates a 2xx response, the session expiration is increased to > the current time plus the session interval obtained from the > response. > > It states that the session expiration is increased. So what is now increased? Is it also the initial INVITE response with the first session expire value. > > From my point of view it would help when we change the definition section to: > Initial Session Refresh Request: The first session refresh request > sent with a particular Call-ID value. i.e. initial INVITE sending at minimum a "supported timer" which is answered by an 200 OK with a negotiated session timer. > > Question is if is only my view or does others have the same view? > > Thank you and Best Regards > > Roland > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von internet- > > drafts@ietf.org > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. August 2018 12:38 > > An: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Cc: sipcore@ietf.org > > Betreff: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the > > IETF. > > > > Title : Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Session Timer Glare Handling > > Author : Christer Holmberg > > Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt > > Pages : 7 > > Date : 2018-08-30 > > > > Abstract: > > This document updates RFC 4028, by clarifying the procedures for > > negotiating usage of the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) session > > timer mechansim, in order to avoid a race condition where both > > endpoints trigger simultaneous negotiations. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race- > > 02 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sipcore mailing list > > sipcore@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Wed Sep 26 12:06:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com 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; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:05:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1537988757; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pTY2zbIP7/rnk/Xh6HMJ9JvgR8DqS526yw3D0+yAPok=; b=Ctt3q53TIy4YeVF46TPap8qALrBFfVUtxWdvgO8r/5vWBA8/2oPohgVTExWT6kA2 JS6fDuJJgTEdyHiDuZMzbaYwsPFDeWkh0A/aSeFhPXuE9/9QMpbqzfJ9eXPQsZQq rEK8hEg2KIy7tFqEy7bZblO4PwKNoK84ScvtetogxrY=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-a1-5babd8950132 Received: from ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.117]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 64.DA.22015.598DBAB5; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:05:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:05:56 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:05:56 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHUQE2Gq5aJjv9xH0eiXw9Q9NnsCKT0IyRQgAO4SACACt6CgIAAWwDA Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153562545519.3315.10133281272170915663@ietfa.amsl.com> <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> <56e47bc5-d510-69e6-f297-76c6069c805d@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <56e47bc5-d510-69e6-f297-76c6069c805d@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: 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aXBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiAgICAgID4gc2lwY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiAgICAgID4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zaXBjb3JlDQo+ICAgICAgDQo+ IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBz aXBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBzaXBjb3JlQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc2lwY29yZQ0KPiANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnNpcGNvcmUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpzaXBj b3JlQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NpcGNv cmUNCg== From nobody Wed Sep 26 12:22:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807B7130F3F for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:21:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrbLTfZBCK8T for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28E2A127333 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w8QJLsbB064195 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:21:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <153795437328.21557.17346270587424995464@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <43194a5d-e185-b0fa-10ce-bce99f039b04@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:21:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <153795437328.21557.17346270587424995464@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:22:03 -0000 Hi Christer - The introduction and a few other places early in the document haven't been updated to reflect long-lived dialogs / in-dialog requests. RjS On 9/26/18 4:32 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. > > Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) > Authors : Christer Holmberg > Michael Arnold > Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt > Pages : 30 > Date : 2018-09-26 > > Abstract: > This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be > used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents > (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send > binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP > requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new > feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to > indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to > exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP > entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to > trigger such push notification requests. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Wed Sep 26 12:45:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B92128CB7 for ; 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i=@ericsson.com; t=1537991129; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=E4bgty5Sfpwl2SP4QV4pl/fy+c4PrMHN6HwvOZ4LPI8=; b=Thgaf6YeXAPQaS8O/96+TBbEarO967ceIyx8N0BobW7uvypbDpH50gcWEgok/zBZ 1XtnX4Yj7XUbzQjbo4qZgLMjFLEJIqEUUgUqC+m42UK7Vtim7xduXwpJZxOFHcuy 546BYzb4q3VKbmYvAq2S2YXd9eyNZr04v+6s9vveojE=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-c7-5babe1d9a6b6 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 74.1F.22015.9D1EBAB5; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:45:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:45:29 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:45:29 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt Thread-Index: AQHUVc44NWdTyeoknE6r06vFMTv2d6UC9E+A Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:45:29 +0000 Message-ID: <2f3938ef30b94f558f6fcc7e3e2ba21e@ericsson.com> References: <153795437328.21557.17346270587424995464@ietfa.amsl.com> <43194a5d-e185-b0fa-10ce-bce99f039b04@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <43194a5d-e185-b0fa-10ce-bce99f039b04@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ie7Nh6ujDXqPWlhcm9PIZvH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnnM2vmEJYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSuj/+hr5oI7KhWL+mawNzDuleli5OSQEDCR mPr3IDOILSRwlFGi+1BmFyMXkP2NUWJdw2UmCGcZo0Tv+kesXYwcHGwCFhLd/7RBGkQEAiUW TlrCAmILC7hKrN90nwki7iax7/MhNpByEQEjidcHpEHCLAKqEtv//mUBCfMKWEts+5IKsbZS YsmjZnYQm1PAXmLz1ltgNqOAmMT3U2vAJjILiEvcejKfCeJkAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OFsJUk 9h67zgJRryOxYPcnNghbW2LZwtdg9bwCghInZz5hmcAoOgvJ2FlIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRtHi 1OLi3HQjY73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMAYObjlt+4OxtWvHQ8xCnAwKvHwZt5ZHS3EmlhWXJl7 iFGCg1lJhHfddqAQb0piZVVqUX58UWlOavEhRmkOFiVxXr1Ve6KEBNITS1KzU1MLUotgskwc nFINjPKL551J/2YX3J7o4X/1IKeIrtaB77f0JEq2PEh+f2zhFO9u4ZmMTxsTX1lGCmTHc6Sd ivzGkHPgb5N8RXvh2VKJ4M9O+okV+6V0DrM/OHcqkPlhpPvOHWtFgmam/WBz88m6NC2wqMKc s/7er/76Vjv2RBF204be/ROD1jy46rKh0Wqmw5wuJZbijERDLeai4kQAU057IY0CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:45:35 -0000 Hi Robert, >The introduction and a few other places early in the document haven't been= updated to reflect long-lived dialogs / in-dialog requests. You are correct. Eventhough most of the text in the Introduction is generic= , there are a couple places where we need to add text about mid-dialog requ= ests and longlived dialogs. OLD: When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog, or a stand- alone SIP request, addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy determines that the UA needs to send a binding refresh REGISTER request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, using the PNS of the UA. NEW: When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog, a stand- alone SIP request or a SIP mid-dialog request (in case of longlived dial= ogs),=20 addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy determines that the UA needs=20 to send a binding refresh REGISTER request, the proxy will request a pus= h=20 notification towards the UA, using the PNS of the UA. --- OLD: The proxy MUST be in the signalling path of REGISTER requests sent by the UA towards the registrar, and of SIP requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) forwarded by the proxy responsible for the UA's domain (sometimes referred to as home proxy, S-CSCF, etc) towards the UA. The proxy can also be co-located with the proxy responsible for the UA's domain. This will also ensure that the Request-URI of SIP requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) can be matched against contacts in REGISTER requests. NEW: The proxy MUST be in the signalling path of REGISTER requests sent by the UA towards the registrar, of SIP requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) forwarded by the proxy responsible for the UA's domain (sometimes referred to as home proxy, S-CSCF, etc) towards the UA and of mid-dialog requests that can trigger push notification request= s.=20 The proxy can also be co-located with the proxy responsible for the UA's domain. This will also ensure that the Request-URI of SIP requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) can be matched against contacts in REGISTER requests. Note that it isn't mentioned in Sections 4 and 5 on purpose. I thought I'd = describe long-lived dialogs in Section 6, in order to not make 4 and 5 more= complex. Regards, Christer RjS On 9/26/18 4:32 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of t= he IETF. > > Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation = Protocol (SIP) > Authors : Christer Holmberg > Michael Arnold > Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt > Pages : 30 > Date : 2018-09-26 > > Abstract: > This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be > used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents > (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send > binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP > requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new > feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to > indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to > exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP > entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to > trigger such push notification requests. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=20 > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore _______________________________________________ sipcore mailing list sipcore@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Wed Sep 26 12:57:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760DE128CB7 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:57:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQHual_tx0MT for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B011130F9C for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.18.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w8QJvbG1069961 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:57:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.18.66] claimed to be unescapeable.local To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <153795437328.21557.17346270587424995464@ietfa.amsl.com> <43194a5d-e185-b0fa-10ce-bce99f039b04@nostrum.com> <2f3938ef30b94f558f6fcc7e3e2ba21e@ericsson.com> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <8e137152-231d-cacb-862e-c42718dc771d@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:57:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2f3938ef30b94f558f6fcc7e3e2ba21e@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:57:50 -0000 Consider simplifying text where you can. On 9/26/18 2:45 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Robert, > >> The introduction and a few other places early in the document haven't been updated to reflect long-lived dialogs / in-dialog requests. > You are correct. Eventhough most of the text in the Introduction is generic, there are a couple places where we need to add text about mid-dialog requests and longlived dialogs. > > OLD: > > When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog, or a stand- > alone SIP request, addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy > determines that the UA needs to send a binding refresh REGISTER > request, the proxy will request a push notification towards the UA, > using the PNS of the UA. > > NEW: > > When the proxy receives a SIP request for a new dialog, a stand- > alone SIP request or a SIP mid-dialog request (in case of longlived dialogs), > addressed towards a UA, or when the proxy determines that the UA needs > to send a binding refresh REGISTER request, the proxy will request a push > notification towards the UA, using the PNS of the UA. Why not NEW:     When the proxy receives a SIP request targeted for the UA, or when the proxy     determines that the UA needs to ... and similar elsewhere > > --- > > OLD: > > The proxy MUST be in the signalling path of REGISTER requests sent by > the UA towards the registrar, and of SIP requests (for a new dialog > or a stand-alone) forwarded by the proxy responsible for the UA's > domain (sometimes referred to as home proxy, S-CSCF, etc) towards the > UA. The proxy can also be co-located with the proxy responsible for > the UA's domain. This will also ensure that the Request-URI of SIP > requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) can be matched against > contacts in REGISTER requests. > > > NEW: > > The proxy MUST be in the signalling path of REGISTER requests sent by > the UA towards the registrar, of SIP requests (for a new dialog > or a stand-alone) forwarded by the proxy responsible for the UA's > domain (sometimes referred to as home proxy, S-CSCF, etc) towards the > UA and of mid-dialog requests that can trigger push notification requests. > The proxy can also be co-located with the proxy responsible for > the UA's domain. This will also ensure that the Request-URI of SIP > requests (for a new dialog or a stand-alone) can be matched against > contacts in REGISTER requests. > > > Note that it isn't mentioned in Sections 4 and 5 on purpose. I thought I'd describe long-lived dialogs in Section 6, in order to not make 4 and 5 more complex. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > > > > RjS > > > On 9/26/18 4:32 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) >> Authors : Christer Holmberg >> Michael Arnold >> Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15.txt >> Pages : 30 >> Date : 2018-09-26 >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be >> used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents >> (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send >> binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP >> requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new >> feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to >> indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to >> exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP >> entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to >> trigger such push notification requests. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-15 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sipcore mailing list >> sipcore@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Wed Sep 26 23:43:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C312130FBB; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:43:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153803060311.21638.14803458085272409967@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:43:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-16.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 06:43:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-16.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-09-26 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 26 23:45:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0C4130E02 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:45:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zMlPFXo8HKLL for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:45:04 -0700 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<43194a5d-e185-b0fa-10ce-bce99f039b04@nostrum.com> <2f3938ef30b94f558f6fcc7e3e2ba21e@ericsson.com> <8e137152-231d-cacb-862e-c42718dc771d@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <8e137152-231d-cacb-862e-c42718dc771d@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0BB5DFAE5C9E31408FD276E9DF18D784@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7le7m2jXRBpdmCFpcm9PIZvH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnnM2vmEJYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSuj58FutoJpjhWLPvWyNTAesO9i5OSQEDCR eH5jMksXIxeHkMBRRolV2/4ygiSEBL4xSly7rQSRWMYocbZ5HlAVBwebgIVE9z9tkBoRgUCJ hZOWsIDYwgKuEtOmrmWBiLtJ7Pt8iA3CdpJoWrKaFaSVRUBVYuWsfJAwr4C9xPOdu5khxj9g lNi98Bk7SIITKPHs5FGwXkYBMYnvp9YwgdjMAuISt57MZ4I4WkBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx//A5osK 6EtMuxwAEVaS2NK7hQkkzCygKbF+lz6EaS1x9q4nxEBFiSndD9khrhGUODnzCcsERvFZSHbN 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From nobody Thu Sep 27 05:47:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E1B130E4A for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 05:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBw4nn8nT4qA for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 05:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5E.96.05037.371DCAB5; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:47:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:47:47 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:47:47 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VQ== Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1C6901A5B664C7086F02AF9E738EF63ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9TLf44ppog81LjSy+/tjE5sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujHubW5gLNipVPF/ZwtLAuEqxi5GDQ0LARGLdJ7YuRi4OIYGj jBIfulZAOd8YJX6e2QDkcAI5yxglLv8SAmlgE7CQ6P6nDRIWEdCUWP5tKzuILSyQLHFm2l1m iHiGRO+HdnYIW0/i3/RtTCA2i4CqxMpz01lAbF4Be4m1c6+C1TAKiEl8P7UGrIZZQFzi1pP5 YLaEgIDEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+xgpwgKqAvMe1yAERYSWJL7xYmkDAz0Albm7ggpgtKnJz5hGUC o/AsJENnIVTNQlIFEdaUWL9LH6JaUWJK90N2CFtDonXOXCjbWuLR991MyGoWMHKsYhQtTi1O yk03MtZLLcpMLi7Oz9PLSy3ZxAiMnINbfqvuYLz8xvEQowAHoxIP76XTa6KFWBPLiitzDzFK cDArifCWrAMK8aYkVlalFuXHF5XmpBYfYpTmYFES531ovjlKSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJsvEwSnV wGi9XTr5qsmZWB3BQzX/VlZXHDr15FV/Qa65frfmbjvPFmZlLmHeP88fJJRtXDZf/EHOC06W xx7HZXg4W8syL8zXmG+VPMPET+rJyQnl01esfvXv0ot/ZUIvNu4on2xiryC1fI36fTUvpRr9 j5r3CsuPnuA6qvUz4WqTyzqpzaxxwkul9/Od/KnEUpyRaKjFXFScCABU5P2ymAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 08:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.142] ([160.79.219.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7-v6sm1496445qkc.67.2018.09.27.08.56.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 08:56:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Lennox Message-Id: <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B6A31F42-E6B9-40B8-87D0-DA2B20096CE1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 11:56:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> Cc: Roman Shpount , SIPCORE To: Christer Holmberg References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:57:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B6A31F42-E6B9-40B8-87D0-DA2B20096CE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it unfortunate to have a = new object called a =E2=80=9CPURK=E2=80=9D when the IETF is also working = on a mechanism called =E2=80=9CPERC=E2=80=9D... > On Sep 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, > =20 > Are people (others than Roman) ok with this? I=E2=80=99d like to merge = the PR and submit a new version of the draft. > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer > =20 > From: Roman Shpount > > Date: Saturday 22 September 2018 at 00:08 > To: Christer Holmberg > > Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org " > > Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered = notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > =20 > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: >> =20 >> >This update looks good. The only remaining question is should proxy = generated >new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically based on = local policy. In RFC >5627, temp-gruu was generated on each binding = refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand. >> =20 >> Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I = don=E2=80=99t think we should mandate a new value for each refresh. >> =20 > =20 > In this case, current update looks good to me. > =20 > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore = --Apple-Mail=_B6A31F42-E6B9-40B8-87D0-DA2B20096CE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it unfortunate to have a = new object called a =E2=80=9CPURK=E2=80=9D when the IETF is also working = on a mechanism called =E2=80=9CPERC=E2=80=9D...

On Sep = 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,
 
Are people (others than = Roman) ok with this? I=E2=80=99d like to merge the PR and submit a new = version of the draft.
 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
From: Roman Shpount = <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Saturday 22 September = 2018 at 00:08
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" <sipcore@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push = with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text = using PURK - Pull request
 
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at = 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
 
>This update looks good. The only remaining = question is should proxy generated >new PURK on each binding = refresh or periodically based on local policy. In RFC >5627, temp-gruu was generated = on each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand.
 
Since the = frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I don=E2=80=99t = think we should mandate a new value for each refresh.
 
<= div class=3D"">
 
In this case, current update looks good to me.
 
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

 
_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

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[209.85.215.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 22-v6sm4435594pfl.126.2018.09.27.10.30.57 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f176.google.com with SMTP id i4-v6so1845025pgq.9 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:402:: with SMTP id 2-v6mr11942492ple.277.1538069456827; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 13:30:56 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d39d60576ddb3fd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:31:02 -0000 --0000000000009d39d60576ddb3fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Alice > becomes the refresher. > > > > Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE > request, is that a session refresh request? I.e., that the rules about > adding S-E etc apply to it? My initial reading is that it does NOT apply = =E2=80=93 > but again, the text is not that clear. > > > Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in the dialog where session timer is negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to it. The alternative would be stopping the session timer. Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is in RFC 4028 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-7.4) where it says= : If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it is RECOMMENDED that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the element sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and *to 'uas' if its peer is performing the refreshes.* Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009d39d60576ddb3fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Assume Alice and Bob = negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Alice becomes the refresher.

=C2=A0

Now, i= f Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE request, is th= at a session refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc app= ly to it? My initial reading is that it does NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear.<= u>





Another clue that both parties gen= erate session refreshes is in RFC 4028 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#se= ction-7.4) where it says:

If the= session refresh request is not the initial one, it is=C2=A0RECOMMENDED tha= t the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the element sending th= e request is currently performing refreshes, and to 'uas' if its= peer is performing the refreshes.

<= br>
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyA= Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:58:34 +0000 Message-ID: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9TDdaY220wcrJghYzLkxltvj6YxOb A5PHkiU/mTxuTSkIYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgyuh7u4OxYJtgxdv909gbGP8IdDFyckgImEjs enGItYuRi0NI4CijRPv7NijnG6NEy5xbbBDOMkaJ+Zu/sHQxcnCwCVhIdP/TBukWEVCV+Pt9 MhOIzSygKfFo514wW1igUKLxx2EWiJoiie6jHVC2lcTfs7vZQGwWoN7FT/vA4rwC1hJLFk+E 2tXGKLF28XxmkASnQKBE66wWsKGMAmIS30+tgVomLnHryXwmiBcEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXC VpLYe+w62M0gx63fpQ/RqigxpfshO8ReQYmTM5+wTGAUm4Vk6iyEjllIOmYh6VjAyLKKUbQ4 tbg4N93ISC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzB6Dm75bbWD8eBzx0OMAhyMSjy86+TWRguxJpYVV+Ye YpTgYFYS4VWTAgrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLndUqziBISSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJMnFw SjUwWt46y2ZgZn77l+WWbcmXPS9EBSVyJd7vn3Yz+lDrxqBQ7fDJGkF2ixQeKt4p68+6uiB6 +2yj+1kMeTWc7FHVM14bTH720OVMtbFEt06P/7mssycWOS0ompgnHFFsZyT37d+MVa52O67u WG0R90ZW9nAYt8nRstCXTpLbszc52Z9dpyNxT/qAEktxRqKhFnNRcSIAb26N/ZoCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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[209.85.210.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 84-v6sm3774pfs.108.2018.09.27.12.47.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f174.google.com with SMTP id d8-v6so2600764pfo.13 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:167:: with SMTP id 94-v6mr12588706plb.142.1538077651950; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:47:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:47:31 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000014e2ef0576df9ca9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:47:37 -0000 --00000000000014e2ef0576df9ca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 2:58 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Alice > becomes the refresher. > >> > >> Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE > request, is that a session > >> refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc apply to it= ? > My initial reading is that it does > >> NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear. > > > > Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in the > dialog where session timer is > > negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to it. The > alternative would be stopping the session timer. > > > > Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is in RFC 402= 8 > section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-7.4) where it > says: > > > > If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it is RECOMMENDE= D > that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the element > > sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and to 'uas' if > its peer is performing the refreshes. > > True. However, section 7.4 seems to assume (it is not very clear, though) > that the UAC (Bob in the example) supports the session timer extension. > What if Bob doesn't support it to begin with (which would be the reason > Alice was selected as the refresher)? > > The session timer supporting proxies need to remember that Bob didn't > support the session timer, so they don't think he is trying to disable it > (by not including S-E in the request). And, at least one of the proxies > must add a S-E to the request, so that the UAS (Alice) doesn't think that > Bob is trying to disable it. > In my experience proxy will always add S-E to INVITE/UPDATE requests if it was not present there and session timer was required by that proxy. Proxy will only assume that session timer was cancelled if S-E was not present in the success response. Keep in mind, UA do not need session timer with exception of some B2BUA cases. Session timer is mostly needed for proxies and the only way to turn off session timer is if UA and all the proxies on path decide that they no longer need it, which also mostly happens with B2BUA scenarios. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000014e2ef0576df9ca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 2:58 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of t= he session-timer, and Alice becomes the refresher.
>>=C2=A0
>> Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE= request, is that a session
>> refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc apply t= o it? My initial reading is that it does
>> NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear.
>
> Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in the= dialog where session timer is
> negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to it. The= alternative would be stopping the session timer.
>
> Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is in RFC 40= 28 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4= 028#section-7.4) where it says:
>
> If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it is=C2=A0RECO= MMENDED that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the element=
> sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and to 'uas= ' if its peer is performing the refreshes.

True. However, section 7.4 seems to assume (it is not very clear, th= ough) that the UAC (Bob in the example) supports the session timer extensio= n. What if Bob doesn't support it to begin with (which would be the rea= son Alice was selected as the refresher)?

The session timer supporting proxies need to remember that Bob didn't s= upport the session timer, so they don't think he is trying to disable i= t (by not including S-E in the request). And, at least one of the proxies m= ust add a S-E to the request, so that the UAS (Alice) doesn't think tha= t Bob is trying to disable it.

In my ex= perience proxy will always add S-E to INVITE/UPDATE requests if it was not = present there and session timer was required by that proxy. Proxy will only= assume that session timer was cancelled if S-E was not present in the succ= ess response. Keep in mind, UA do not need session timer with exception of = some B2BUA cases. Session timer is mostly needed for proxies and the only w= ay to turn off session timer is if UA and all the proxies on path decide th= at they no longer need it, which also mostly happens with B2BUA scenarios.<= /div>

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--00000000000014e2ef0576df9ca9-- From nobody Thu Sep 27 13:53:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90002130DC1 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 13:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GX1epPOfXLiw for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A124130E4B for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538081597; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4a31tTuUWHRUvHmm1GzHCELttqbYiiZFEIkwvGbHDUg=; b=fxLB9AdYoj2l5hlUzFtUCQPyVmPdx8cEHTg0kHDf/PCG+Rbh1BuvdECejpZ9fY3E VG+7TuzjUVZcU4EMZFnJHOKIJ9K+G/YSCmFpJ46Dfm5sx7xbv+HO/MNaINuGDef+ h4YzCXPcUuullGrvWyNzsJmuHyRjr/BDhOnt5kUCTBs=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-fe1ff700000055da-14-5bad433d841b Received: from ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.115]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A7.D1.21978.D334DAB5; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:53:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:53:16 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:53:16 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQ Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 20:53:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9WNfWeW20wZN3yhYzLkxltvj6YxOb A5PHkiU/mTxuTSkIYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgylj0eSlLwRfZipNTfzI3ME6Q7WLk5JAQMJE4 cGEjexcjF4eQwFFGiZs3XkA53xglXjzfwgbhLGOUOLy6Fcjh4GATsJDo/qcN0i0ioCrx9/tk JhCbWUBT4tHOvWC2sEChROOPwywQNUUS3Uc7oGw3idPHX4PZLEC9Z/d9ZwOxeQWsJbaue80M ses/o8TXL1MYQRKcAoESV5YuBWtgFBCT+H5qDdQycYlbT+YzQbwgILFkz3lmCFtU4uXjf6wQ tpLE3mPXWUBuBjlu/S59iFZFiSndD9kh9gpKnJz5hGUCo9gsJFNnIXTMQtIxC0nHAkaWVYyi xanFSbnpRkZ6qUWZycXF+Xl6eaklmxiB0XNwy2+DHYwvnzseYhTgYFTi4eUzWRstxJpYVlyZ e4hRgoNZSYRXTQooxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnNfCb3OUkEB6YklqdmpqQWoRTJaJ g1OqgTGvLtZixkHD2LciB5v3Hl1xzNxtiosng6xapdJSgxVXuN+crhSqT3N+LHDm5kqhAx/5 3JIzJi8q+baoJzM0jVM4fPqBjeou277wXGGfbqXFLXLmtueVg0Xyno3PVdR4L0t8Z7rYvGn1 6Qcu5yb8ECzJVAz3njL10Zrv9rK3znQKXjzeqtISPFGJpTgj0VCLuag4EQApEmkUmgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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[209.85.215.179]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c1-v6sm3438234pgp.34.2018.09.27.14.26.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f179.google.com with SMTP id d1-v6so2863845pgo.3 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:1752:: with SMTP id 18-v6mr12115786pgx.131.1538083602248; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:26:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:26:41 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bf3c340576e0feed" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:26:46 -0000 --000000000000bf3c340576e0feed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>>> Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Alic= e > becomes the refresher. > >>>> > >>>> Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE > request, is that a session > >>>> refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc apply to > it? My initial reading is that it does > >>>> NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear. > >>> > >>> Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in th= e > dialog where session timer is > >>> negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to it. Th= e > alternative would be stopping the session timer. > >>> > >>> Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is in RFC > 4028 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-7.4) where > it says: > >>> > >>> If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it > is RECOMMENDED that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the elemen= t > >>> sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and to 'uas' i= f > its peer is performing the refreshes. > >> > >> True. However, section 7.4 seems to assume (it is not very clear, > though) that the UAC (Bob in the example) supports the > >> session timer extension. What if Bob doesn't support it to begin with > (which would be the reason Alice was selected as the refresher)? > >> > >> The session timer supporting proxies need to remember that Bob didn't > support the session timer, so they don't think > >> he is trying to disable it (by not including S-E in the request). And, > at least one of the proxies must add a S-E to the request, so > >> that the UAS (Alice) doesn't think that Bob is trying to disable it. > > > > In my experience proxy will always add S-E to INVITE/UPDATE requests if > it was not present there and session timer was > > required by that proxy. > > Let's assume Bob sends the UPDATE while the initial INVITE is still > ongoing. As we have discussed, the S-E added by the proxies should be > identical to the information used in the INVITE transaction. However, > according to Table 2 a proxy is not allowed to add the refresher paramete= r > if the UPDATE does not contain Supported:timer. > What does RFC 4208 Table 2 have to do with proxy? It controls the UAS behavior. Proxy can insert S-E to requests regardless of presence of "Supported: timer" header (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-8.1). > >Proxy will only assume that session timer was cancelled if S-E was not > present in the success response. > > Yes. But, again, when Alice sends session refresh requests, proxies will > have to remember that Bob doesn't support session timer, and will not > include anything in the response to the session refresh requests. > Yes, proxy will cancel session timer if S-E was not present or added to he request and S-E is not present in the response, or no S-E header in response and neither UAC nor UAS include "Supported: timer". Please see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-8.2 for more details. It is really hard to cancel session-timer. Everybody (both UA and all the proxies) must agree that they no longer need it or both UA would need to stop supporting it. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000bf3c340576e0feed Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Chr= ister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>= wrote:
>>>> Assume Ali= ce and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Alice becomes the ref= resher.
>>>>=C2=A0
>>>> Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/r= e-INVITE request, is that a session
>>>> refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc= apply to it? My initial reading is that it does
>>>> NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear.=
>>>
>>> Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE reques= t in the dialog where session timer is
>>> negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to= it. The alternative would be stopping the session timer.
>>>
>>> Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is i= n RFC 4028 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/<= wbr>rfc4028#section-7.4) where it says:
>>>
>>> If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it is= =C2=A0RECOMMENDED that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if t= he element
>>> sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and to = 'uas' if its peer is performing the refreshes.
>>
>> True. However, section 7.4 seems to assume (it is not very clear, = though) that the UAC (Bob in the example) supports the
>> session timer extension. What if Bob doesn't support it to beg= in with (which would be the reason Alice was selected as the refresher)? >>
>> The session timer supporting proxies need to remember that Bob did= n't support the session timer, so they don't think
>> he is trying to disable it (by not including S-E in the request). = And, at least one of the proxies must add a S-E to the request, so
>> that the UAS (Alice) doesn't think that Bob is trying to disab= le it.
>
> In my experience proxy will always add S-E to INVITE/UPDATE requests i= f it was not present there and session timer was
> required by that proxy.

Let's assume Bob sends the UPDATE while the initial INVITE is st= ill ongoing. As we have discussed, the S-E added by the proxies should be i= dentical to the information used in the INVITE transaction. However, accord= ing to Table 2 a proxy is not allowed to add the refresher parameter if the= UPDATE does not contain Supported:timer.

What does RFC 4208 Table 2 have to do with proxy? It controls the UAS be= havior. Proxy can insert S-E to requests regardless of presence of "Su= pported: timer" header (see=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-8.1)= .
=C2=A0
<= span class=3D"gmail-">>Proxy will only assume that session timer was can= celled if S-E was not present in the success response.

Yes. But, again, when Alice sends session refresh requests, proxies = will have to remember that Bob doesn't support session timer, and will = not include anything in the response to the session refresh requests.

Yes, proxy will cancel session timer if S-E = was not present or added to he request and S-E is not present in the respon= se, or no S-E header in response and neither UAC nor UAS include "Supp= orted: timer". Please see=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-8.2 fo= r more details.

It is really hard to cancel sessio= n-timer. Everybody (both UA and all the proxies) must agree that they no lo= nger need it or both UA would need to stop supporting it.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQ///uy4CAACU9UA== Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:42:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9THe339pog80PmC1mXJjKbPH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnncmlIQwBTFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlfFw31rGgj7piq41M9gbGLdIdTFycEgImEhs f5LXxcjJISRwlFFi4tuALkYuIPsbo8Tb65OZIJxljBLLvv9mBWlgE7CQ6P6nDdIgIqAq8fc7 SA0nB7OApsSjnXvBbGGBQonGH4dZIGqKJLqPdkDZYRJX/z9kB7FZgHpbrl9kA7F5Bawlvpxs Z4Q44geTRNOZChCbUyBQYvGe98wgNqOAmMT3U2ugdolL3HoyH8yWEBCQWLLnPDOELSrx8vE/ VghbSWLvsessICeD3LZ+lz5Eq6LElG6IE3gFBCVOznzCMoFRbBaSqbMQOmYh6ZiFpGMBI8sq RtHi1OLi3HQjY73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMC4Objlt+4OxtWvHQ8xCnAwKvHwBritjRZiTSwr rsw9xCjBwawkwqsmBRTiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3BoiTOq7dqT5SQQHpiSWp2ampBahFM lomDU6qB0XDlLt//6qneL7WXF01yE7TxNrgVXxT+9sDnmNvxf/3/nIv7a/A89BPvxx3L1hS5 XLWKyT9pfChLqOn0xGrtveI+9xsZVoSJPb70Y/3K5v/vPfyXL7nC1nYruzJsN0NpmOnlpSEd t6ZutTOt+DIp7tuajvAPpzXkqv96n3tj8jPHdc3DF8v1diixFGckGmoxFxUnAgDSSNPolwIA AA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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[209.85.215.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u15-v6sm7951334pgn.56.2018.09.27.14.57.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f176.google.com with SMTP id i4-v6so2287997pgq.9 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:1a5a:: with SMTP id a26-v6mr12189237pgm.9.1538085430177; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:57:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:57:09 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b336540576e16b5f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:57:14 -0000 --000000000000b336540576e16b5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Let's assume Bob sends the UPDATE while the initial INVITE is still > ongoing. As we have discussed, the S-E added by the proxies > >> should be identical to the information used in the INVITE transaction. > However, according to Table 2 a proxy is not allowed to add > >> the refresher parameter if the UPDATE does not contain Supported:timer. > > > > What does RFC 4208 Table 2 have to do with proxy? It controls the UAS > behavior. Proxy can insert S-E to requests regardless of > > presence of "Supported: timer" header (see https://tools.ietf.org/ > html/rfc4028#section-8.1). > > The proxy can insert S-E, but it MUST NOT insert the refresher parameter. > This is correct. In practice proxy should never insert refresher parameter, just S-E without one. Why is this important? _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000b336540576e16b5f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> Let's assume Bob sends the UPDATE whil= e the initial INVITE is still ongoing. As we have discussed, the S-E added = by the proxies
>> should be identical to the information used in the INVITE transact= ion. However, according to Table 2 a proxy is not allowed to add
>> the refresher parameter if the UPDATE does not contain Supported:t= imer.
>
> What does RFC 4208 Table 2 have to do with proxy? It controls the UAS = behavior. Proxy can insert S-E to requests regardless of
> presence of "Supported: timer" header (see=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-8.1).
=C2=A0
The proxy can insert S-E, but it MUST NOT insert the refresher param= eter.

This is correct. In practice prox= y should never insert refresher parameter, just S-E without one. Why is thi= s important?
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--000000000000b336540576e16b5f-- From nobody Thu Sep 27 15:12:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A60130F19 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:12:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WjN1-DkmU4Qw for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BF901292F1 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:12:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538086322; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=K8bWxpW7eRtxrn/45N2NX56OY8F7ms+KWHVV6Hml2IA=; b=GrqDQiknR/t1Ut8dEP1fnoYc8azw5r9PTDU0vbFAibtr2voxgnTx1kx3vl20lZzS TApddCxvw1lGpVml6cvKhDkXbyBVXE5QJUuXxCKjTFAMYV9MxJLik/CtbwLe8s+w 1ObWicVXFV4vxlW3YAWGjPX9rQ8H1fzXLrRU1fQ17K4=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-20bff700000055ff-41-5bad55b2e613 Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 3C.E6.22015.2B55DAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:12:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:12:02 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:12:02 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQ///uy4CAACU9UP//40aAAAS2A8c= Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F5684E4A56644867B536C3983B673785ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7te6m0LXRBksalS1mXJjKbPH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnncmlIQwBTFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAldF7fCdjQZdWxee+XcwNjG80uhg5OCQETCQm PeHoYuTiEBI4yigx9+tbti5GTiDnG6PEpGcWEIlljBJ335xlAmlgE7CQ6P6nDVIjIqAq8ff7 ZCYQm1lAU+LRzr1gJcIChRIND4QgSookuo92sEDYSRJ7fkPYLECt3Yt2MoLYvAL2El1/fjBD rHrPLLHl31lmkASnQKDEs1nv2EFsRgExie+n1kDtEpe49WQ+mC0hICCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+s EDXJEvt6H7JBLBCUODnzCcsERpFZSNpnISmbhaRsFtALIO+s36UPUaIoMaX7ITuErSHROmcu O7L4Akb2VYyixanFxbnpRsZ6qUWZycXF+Xl6eaklmxiBEXVwy2/dHYyrXzseYhTgYFTi4Q1w WxstxJpYVlyZe4hRgoNZSYRXTQooxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnFdv1Z4oIYH0xJLU 7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA+P8WSIzT89demBGaVKSC+euc9ft2OeWvS/fFOSYE/FjWuYbzYeBm4rV Dp7VPXNh0+HqPWEVL5lFK3ZFLRYoqGtmzS35zCroVKky/YmGvctHneY4ti95k64Wn1erTt2q yrxdbO2bnVumbnY37FtyevKDJexxU38zH/DuSf61jk9trc5ZPv/6DU1KLMUZiYZazEXFiQCP /yItpAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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[209.85.215.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z22-v6sm94863pgk.21.2018.09.27.15.18.50 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id i4-v6so2320532pgq.9 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d688:: with SMTP id v8-v6mr13246828ply.79.1538086730601; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:18:50 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000036192e0576e1b986" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:18:58 -0000 --00000000000036192e0576e1b986 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > It is important if the UPDATE is sent within an ongoing INVITE > transaction, as we have been talking about mandating the session timer > parameters being identical. > > If proxy added S-E header to INVITE it should add the same header to UPDATE. In both cases S-E header should not include refresher. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000036192e0576e1b986 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
It is important if the UPDATE is sent within an ongo= ing INVITE transaction, as we have been talking about mandating the session= timer parameters being identical.


If proxy added S-E he= ader to INVITE it should add the same header to UPDATE. In both cases S-E h= eader should not include refresher.

Regards,
=
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.210.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 67-v6sm4391672pgf.26.2018.09.27.21.13.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id l9-v6so3355843pff.9 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:9f11:: with SMTP id g17-v6mr9192591pfe.144.1538108011792; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:13:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <94E6E147-EF78-4CD0-9B77-B7F3D2883F28@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <94E6E147-EF78-4CD0-9B77-B7F3D2883F28@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:13:20 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab514e0576e6ad92" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 04:13:35 -0000 --000000000000ab514e0576e6ad92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Can you please provide the full example? Roman Shpount On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 11:07 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > The UA (Alice) might have added the the S-E. > > Regards, > > Christer > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 28 Sep 2018, at 1.18, Roman Shpount wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> It is important if the UPDATE is sent within an ongoing INVITE >> transaction, as we have been talking about mandating the session timer >> parameters being identical. >> >> > If proxy added S-E header to INVITE it should add the same header to > UPDATE. In both cases S-E header should not include refresher. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > > --000000000000ab514e0576e6ad92 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can you please provide the full example?

Roman Shpount

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 11:07 PM Christer Holmbe= rg <christer.holmberg@= ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

The UA (Alice) might have added the the S-E.

Regards,

Christer

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Sep 2018, at 1.18, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:<= br>
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
It is important if the UPDATE is sent within an ongoing INVITE transac= tion, as we have been talking about mandating the session timer parameters = being identical.


If proxy added S-E header to INVITE it should add the same header to U= PDATE. In both cases S-E header should not include refresher.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--000000000000ab514e0576e6ad92-- From nobody Fri Sep 28 00:00:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68161130DEE for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FAzW4Rva_hry for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41CCD126DBF for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:00:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538118020; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+/4IpIRDCndaw5G1E5GM9NHVT/y5oPfpWAVes6ncNi4=; b=YEoxBj48++AzAABHrDkfYGWyrhoSS96cbp00jGhGJyrnoUeVMdKBGRnmf9fu5lJv 5ATvUiAjS1bRvcrn52g9vNRhReFzYLufX7hX/G9dXM4HXU2wMuQJ07Yc17cTJ2aX 2wfqgvpupu4gHK48SP+8CVdKe/akRpZ3GEBgjc4USJg=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-75d969c000003197-7e-5badd18427b2 Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.118]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F6.59.12695.481DDAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:00:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:00:20 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:00:20 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQ///uy4CAACU9UP//40aAAAS2A8f//+BfAIAAck21///wvwCAAGDUAA== Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:00:19 +0000 Message-ID: <5B2EE623-62AD-4BA9-811F-0E35965C04E3@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <94E6E147-EF78-4CD0-9B77-B7F3D2883F28@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5B26949521086B4BBE528FC1BFB95EBF@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7mW7LxbXRBvdfi1jMuDCV2eLrj01s DkweS5b8ZPK4NaUggCmKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK2Pu8smMBRMkKu4+XcbUwHhAvIuRk0NCwETi 8p25LF2MXBxCAkcZJdY+nQLlfGOUOL/rBCuEs4xR4t6O74xdjBwcbAIWEt3/tEG6RQRUJf5+ n8wEYjMLyElc/7CRDaREWKBQouGBEERJkUT30Q4WCLtO4u7HfrByFqDW7v8LmUFsXgF7ienz mtggVr1mlWiY8xQswSkQKPHqSROYzSggJvH91BqoXeISt57MZ4L4QEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9Y QW4QFdCXmHY5ACKsJLGldwsTSJhZQFNi/S59iCnWEpt+PGaHsBUlpnQ/ZIc4R1Di5MwnLBMY JWYhWTYLoXsWku5ZSLpnIelewMi6ilG0OLW4ODfdyEgvtSgzubg4P08vL7VkEyMwAg9u+W21 g/Hgc8dDjAIcjEo8vJWr10YLsSaWFVfmHmKU4GBWEuHdVw0U4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+xCjN waIkzuuUZhElJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYFT18wmuW/dpwXxOsWurlHV+KqhVbw6TylzJ E/xN957rHC3tgKyCX058k1X4n5ZvMazcVqcxszzkvKDFqoAtF1WOpujcDu2vjHHRq99mlDTL 6UgFz5YaI7VTxaFB1Zfs7DKYfnoGz+1Qjw2cX7UuPOHDrqLo6WuDH/bP5V31e6PgpvNaE21X KLEUZyQaajEXFScCAF6POs28AgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:00:24 -0000 DQogICBBbGljZSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBQcm94eSAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgQm9iIChkb2VzIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0IHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIpDQoNCjEuIC0tLS0t LSBJTlZJVEUgLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t4oaSDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgUy1FOiAxMDA7cmVmcmVzaGVy PXVhYw0KDQoyLiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLS0t LS0tLSBJTlZJVEUgLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBTLUU6IDEwMDtyZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFjDQoNCjMuICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8LS0tLS0tIDE4eCAtLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCjQuICA8LS0tLS0tIDE4eCAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCjUu ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8LS0tLS0tIFVQREFU 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ZW4gdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCBtYW5kYXRpbmcgdGhlIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgcGFyYW1ldGVycyBi ZWluZyBpZGVudGljYWwuDQoNCg0KSWYgcHJveHkgYWRkZWQgUy1FIGhlYWRlciB0byBJTlZJVEUg aXQgc2hvdWxkIGFkZCB0aGUgc2FtZSBoZWFkZXIgdG8gVVBEQVRFLiBJbiBib3RoIGNhc2VzIFMt RSBoZWFkZXIgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBpbmNsdWRlIHJlZnJlc2hlci4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCl9fX19f X19fX19fX18NClJvbWFuIFNocG91bnQNCg0KwqANCg0K From nobody Fri Sep 28 00:23:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC102130DF1 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 00:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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bh=A5k+1MvPmouDk7p41VADKJUrjN15POnsLI5fK7506o8=; b=bLghDvR9K5QFxUnpvysZQLDL9XgOmD+sRpo9awDoUx9ThquknTbOre8UeLFBDWHU vhjFTbY/DjVUDZrQDTVsZUUXVtaV1ksouPkCl/sQj+I4xMbTl36hsTdqSAlOn+5T TcEctf+CQ89l5hHI/GsuzXkQaQlV/n0p98Imn37qZ/s=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-cd2929c0000013ad-2c-5badd6ebb6f9 Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 26.A5.05037.BE6DDAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:23:02 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:23:02 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Jonathan Lennox CC: SIPCORE , Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROaT6rz+AgAA3Z4D///owYoAAG0xQ///mAQCAACfboIAAD62AgAWlEwCAA3HMgIAAI0MwgAEAzKA= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:23:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f3dfb6c4756e438cb6e050d89939ee8bericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:23:40 -0000 --_000_f3dfb6c4756e438cb6e050d89939ee8bericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V291bGQg4oCYUFVSRiAoUHJveHkgVW5pcXVlIFJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiBSZWZlcmVuY2Up4oCZIGJl IGJldHRlcj8NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KRnJvbTogc2lwY29yZSBbbWFpbHRv OnNpcGNvcmUtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIENocmlzdGVyIEhvbG1iZXJn DQpTZW50OiAyNyBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxOCAxOTowNA0KVG86IEpvbmF0aGFuIExlbm5veCA8am9u YXRoYW5AdmlkeW8uY29tPg0KQ2M6IFNJUENPUkUgPHNpcGNvcmVAaWV0Zi5vcmc+OyBSb21hbiBT aHBvdW50IDxyb21hbkB0ZWx1cml4LmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbc2lwY29yZV0gU0lQIFB1 c2ggd2l0aCBtaWQtZGlhbG9nIHJlcXVlc3QgdHJpZ2dlcmVkIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbnM6IFdheSBm b3J3YXJkIC0gVGhlIHRleHQgdXNpbmcgUFVSSyAtIFB1bGwgcmVxdWVzdA0KDQpHaXZlIG1lIGEg 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<61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6ecef7493a2347399ca49099e79b9c36ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7lW7xjbXRBqv75C32Lz7PbDHjwlRm i68/NrE5MHssWfKTyePWlAKPtmd32AOYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyri+9x1bw4QhjxZbnM9gb GK/sZ+xi5OSQEDCRuLpyKVsXIxeHkMBRRom7/XuYIZxvjBJH3p9iBakSEljGKHHuh08XIwcH m4CFRPc/bZCwiICGxMVnH9hAwswCjhKzdiuBtAoLNDNKTD/azAJR08Iosf6IHYRdJ9Exp4cN 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<125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_59291bd54666420f94e9f1952abefa1dericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ia7g7bXRBm8/iFjsX3ye2WLGhanM Fl9/bGJzYPZYsuQnk8etKQUebc/usAcwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlzFkbWrDrJGPFzR9HGRsY Jxxh7GLk5JAQMJG49LKPHcQWEjjKKDHxak4XIxeQ/Y1RYsvxk0wQzjJGiVXL+oGqODjYBCwk uv9pgzSICGhIXHz2gQ0kzCzgKDFrtxJIubBAM6PE9KPNLBA1LYwS64/YQdh1Em/3/2cFsVkE VCWmnVrGBmLzClhL7LzRwwyxayOrxL4T14EWs3NwCthIvI0GKWEUEJP4fmoNE4jNLCAucevJ fCaI+wUkluw5zwxhi0q8fPyPFcJWkth77DoLRH2yxN39B1ghVglKnJz5hGUCo+gsJKNmISmb haRsFthnmhLrd+lDlChKTOl+yA5ha0i0zpnLjiy+gJF9FaNocWpxcW66kZFealFmcnFxfp5e 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g6-v6sm6771994pfb.11.2018.09.28.02.05.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: OKUMURA Shinji To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg , Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 18:05:06 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180928-0, 2018/09/28), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:05:14 -0000 Hi, It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem, Assuming that Alice's UA and proxies support timer, Bob's UA does not sup= port timer, [scenario 1] 1. Alice sends 1st INVITE with SE 2. Bob returns 200 without SE 3. proxies add SE refresher=3Duacto the response [scenario 2] 1. Alice sends 1st INVITE with SE 2. Bob sends UPDATE without SE 3. proxies may add SE to the UPDATE request 4. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) with SE refresher=3Duas (Table 2) 5. Bob returns 200(INVITE) without SE 6. proxy add SE refresher=3Duacto the response [scenario 3] no session timer 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE 2. no proxies add SE to the request 3. Alice returns 200 without SE 3: ISTM the behavior of UAS(section 9) is unclear when UAC does not suppo= rt timer. [scenario 4] 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE 2. proxies may add SE to the request 3. Alice returns 200 with SE refresher=3Duas (Table 2) [scenario 5] 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE 2. no proxies add SE to the request 3. Bob sends UPDATE without SE 4. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) without SE 5. Alice returns 200(INVITE) without SE [scenario 6] 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE 2. proxies adds SE to the INVITE request 3. Bob sends UPDATE without SE 4. proxies add SE to the UPDATE request 5. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) with SE refresher=3Duas (Table 2) 6. Alice returns 200(INVITE) with SE refresher=3Duas (Table 2) [scenario 7] refresh 1. Alice sends UPDATE with SE refresher=3Duac 2. Bob returns 200 without SE 3. proxies add SE refresher=3Duac to the response [scenario 8] unintended refresh 1. Bob sends UPDATE without SE 2. proxies add SEto the UPDATE request 3. Alice returns 200 with SE(refresher=3Duas) [scenario 9] turn-off 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE 2. no proxies add SE to the request 3. Bob returns 200 without SE 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/28 5:53, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>> Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and Ali= ce becomes the refresher. >>>>> =C2=A0 >>>>> Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE = request, is that a session=20 >>>>> refresh request? I.e., that the rules about adding S-E etc apply to= it? My initial reading is that it does=20 >>>>> NOT apply =E2=80=93 but again, the text is not that clear. >>>> Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in t= he dialog where session timer is=20 >>>> negotiated is a session refresh request. S-E rules do apply to it. T= he alternative would be stopping the session timer. >>>> >>>> Another clue that both parties generate session refreshes is in RFC = 4028 section 7.4 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4028#section-7.4) where = it says: >>>> >>>> If the session refresh request is not the initial one, it is=C2=A0RE= COMMENDED that the refresher parameter be set to 'uac' if the element=20 >>>> sending the request is currently performing refreshes, and to 'uas' = if its peer is performing the refreshes. >>> True. However, section 7.4 seems to assume (it is not very clear, tho= ugh) that the UAC (Bob in the example) supports the=20 >>> session timer extension. What if Bob doesn't support it to begin with= (which would be the reason Alice was selected as the refresher)? >>> >>> The session timer supporting proxies need to remember that Bob didn't= support the session timer, so they don't think=20 >>> he is trying to disable it (by not including S-E in the request). And= , at least one of the proxies must add a S-E to the request, so=20 >>> that the UAS (Alice) doesn't think that Bob is trying to disable it. >> In my experience proxy will always add S-E to INVITE/UPDATE requests i= f it was not present there and session timer was=20 >> required by that proxy.=20 > Let's assume Bob sends the UPDATE while the initial INVITE is still ong= oing. As we have discussed, the S-E added by the proxies should be identi= cal to the information used in the INVITE transaction. However, according= to Table 2 a proxy is not allowed to add the refresher parameter if the = UPDATE does not contain Supported:timer. > >> Proxy will only assume that session timer was cancelled if S-E was not= present in the success response.=20 > Yes. But, again, when Alice sends session refresh requests, proxies wil= l have to remember that Bob doesn't support session timer, and will not i= nclude anything in the response to the session refresh requests. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > >> Keep in mind, UA do not need session timer with exception of some B2BU= A cases. Session timer is mostly needed for=20 >> proxies and the only way to turn off session timer is if UA and all th= e proxies on path decide that they no longer need it,=20 >> which also mostly happens with B2BUA scenarios. > =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Fri Sep 28 02:21:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5002F130DCE for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qa2-ZTx20fpM for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA46E130DC8 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:21:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538126503; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=f3EQ+C2b2OZPPkR7AiFkSbh7spdUdgmPWBPPqn70lRY=; b=NcNK2RbdoHQX2qexQu5FDsr4mP27onW1CDSCT0S1CYpKQMJstoJLxl7EwG3b2HEu aV6/IN6yxylrjC4n89m3c3VRDT/D5Af+5/0sjBEqokyE6VfzedgGaox4skXiyRJv O53QQwsderRdt0aE8bafJwJSFP7Kwyn2J6puhRxWRcM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-20bff700000055ff-50-5badf2a78413 Received: from ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.117]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EF.57.22015.7A2FDAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:21:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:21:43 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:21:43 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" CC: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgA== Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:21:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrFIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7qe7yT2ujDX4csbRY0r+GzWLFhgOs FjMuTGW2+PpjE5sDi8ff9x+YPHbOusvusWTJTyaPW1MKAliiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDL6Wo8x FZzTqPjZI9DAeEK9i5GTQ0LARGLv2U2MXYxcHEICRxklpq69xgrhfGOU+PpsNStIlZDAMkaJ 2V8suhg5ONgELCS6/2mDmCICwRINe+NAKpgFvCU+XnnCChIWFiiUaHggBBIWESiS6D7awQJh h0lM/nuYDcRmEVCVWP9lFTuIzStgL3G0ewMbxNYnTBLHV+8HK+IUsJW4seEeWBGjgJjE91Nr mCB2iUvcejKfCeJ+AYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/wO7QVRAX2La5QCIsJLElt4tTCBhZgFNifW79CGm WEvsfnmEGcJWlJjS/RDqHEGJkzOfsExglJiFZNkshO5ZSLpnIemehaR7ASPrKkbR4tTi4tx0 I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzAGD245bfuDsbVrx0PMQpwMCrx8Bq/WBstxJpYVlyZe4hRgoNZ SYR3XzVQiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uSOK/eqj1RQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsao 6flrN0yaYHzvoHG1TujBy3muzGE/udmSGxYz8IfYNJ74fHCSlVxrXr3I7vi0w6ZOKt35hxbt WLFSnHnXYkXD/ZXHjx7jP3m9OTw1wmT7dPfVSknMKmbvdOwXLJhz0Pmb9qJfP/YlL5m/MHSy 39rnkrZm604E8Od8Sy70jHRJrEpo0d/y/6ASS3FGoqEWc1FxIgCpLTfezQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:21:48 -0000 SGksDQogICAgDQogICAgW3NjZW5hcmlvIDJdDQogICAgMS4gQWxpY2Ugc2VuZHMgMXN0IElOVklU RSB3aXRoIFNFDQogICAgMi4gQm9iIHNlbmRzIFVQREFURSB3aXRob3V0IFNFDQogICAgMy4gcHJv eGllcyBtYXkgYWRkIFNFIHRvIHRoZSBVUERBVEUgcmVxdWVzdA0KICAgIDQuIEFsaWNlIHJldHVy bnMgMjAwKFVQREFURSkgd2l0aCBTRSByZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFzIChUYWJsZSAyKQ0KICAgIDUuIEJv YiByZXR1cm5zIDIwMChJTlZJVEUpIHdpdGhvdXQgU0UNCiAgICA2LiBwcm94eSBhZGQgU0UgcmVm cmVzaGVyPXVhY3RvIHRoZSByZXNwb25zZQ0KDQpXaGF0IEkgd2FudGVkIHRvIHBvaW50IG91dCBp cyB0aGF0IHByb3hpZXMgYXJlIG5vdCBhbGxvd2VkIHRvIGFkZCB0aGUgcmVmcmVzaGVyIHBhcmFt ZXRlciB0byB0aGUgVVBEQVRFIHJlcXVlc3QgKG1lc3NhZ2UgMykuDQoNClNvLCB0aGUgU0UgaGVh ZGVyIGluIG1lc3NhZ2VzIDMgYW5kIDYgd2lsbCBub3QgYmUgaWRlbnRpY2FsLCBhcyB0aGUgcmVm 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cyBpZiBVQSBhbmQgYWxsIHRoZSBwcm94aWVzIG9uIHBhdGggZGVjaWRlIHRoYXQgdGhleSBubyBs b25nZXIgbmVlZCBpdCwgDQogICAgPj4gd2hpY2ggYWxzbyBtb3N0bHkgaGFwcGVucyB3aXRoIEIy QlVBIHNjZW5hcmlvcy4NCiAgICA+ICANCiAgICA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgPiBzaXBjb3JlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgID4g c2lwY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9zaXBjb3JlDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Sep 28 02:58:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8A5130DFE for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:58:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] 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[122.249.156.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v8-v6sm6438981pfl.6.2018.09.28.02.58.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 02:58:46 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" Cc: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ietf.shinji@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFt6hp8BEAC9dX9jEBwVh+jyqG756py6RwQI469RMyiIO4s7bu88GdNQWre1fgpopufO 1WDuUz4ANqlpI+hp1GgJTVaj4rpkFjWAi5gxdbkvOyfyH9NM/X/XLnJd4yx/tUwjAV4IfL5z O+dd7bzkzuclufGHInEBDOerk7sDvww72CtpczYoiub/7bXf3HOTFGNIi0gCkUfanByDnjPP 8hCVMH90RSvu5n/hdJRDbN71Cduz+UoyuumXUHetoTwetsudoQP+MHpzZlWRm+/gsYgahwuP Jl2JFJ72FwPSSo6KRWQox2EWOmZ+j/wlYLXFqCYtgXxkn2zF8qTQ3bxmkWg3NcOJATS99Sn1 6eZLtic5fvivpJYbizAL7WsYLQAa73Ozx5BEO9M+PCmw0gDXk409v/iPPnLVUNfYFHV7kLX3 bdDyniqMTWb6AYMdGso6Sl+iavwOAuz8foY5e/sAcM4lsBZvE+ncGlkcKDnIQ9lZGdwZ4/xP nPzkvEfS/pv2aVAZ1InRQNkpTQOADpIpWbk0lxrH3WZjtDmRzgHVDF9wSy1mfki/DLb/Lq98 jV3HrM/7X8lMcDhL4tJE2Zhz8GRdcaY7GdIhxqnzoeqfx6CDG3u8zf8HeN4yhATIrescAGEI caAecKiFr4bPa/SqzpCKd95QdHNTmxB+dKtuN1iL6QIznYo3jwARAQABzTDlpaXmnZEg5Ly4 5LqMIDxva3VtdXJhLnNoaW5qaUBiYXJuYXJkc29mdC5jby5qcD7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQRtfGrP uExYvTim1aRkJvLzYr71uwUCW3qGnwIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAAKCRBkJvLzYr71u1tCD/0WZ9RoveXtGJM+xAvPrETWbQljP5jVfNx03Tem4OQjwor8phvg qmqizLVFX5pK0OroLb3VZo92rgr2exOoC7p2PFKOrVo4QJ+46IzKa0Q1HGvUBCKmRDLqT50T 1JXdnLiaLcrdchcPdzmDLK1YVtXumSPmUTzBvnzW+0dQAjAmH5wgF6SVfOE5oPEO5g0hm4aX ArB7AXKLPHMAnluFCnIjbyKvScvWJWsdGYogZBoVEBBUD0xmlf/v0lXuhlZJ36xfHagmwM+c YKo+U6hObwoDrqkuVbKY8vz9ow9KF1+m/Xx4TH8DHEATk24B1n8zEmcJBlEw+WFETwtJge42 nLFNzyvMv1H9sVFjOtPSH7rQhRlk5nuNtg1wiARnRXoYPLPDoJRvYMwFiqK46V2YCR/Ezdxg LD5bVpbWPpCc0Roq6o8Aodgt4+SVtcD8nbuILnqdu0SVOTJ4bOGaypZACzOlR8nW5hTXsaRf 2Z25fWRa8M5Im+o2/piTZf68sNxUfECz0NRIn7Rr90KqWmFk7eqEaFVFNuwAYY2+RKLrUctJ VPnxt9wg+H4JkiWCRqwCi3pnfUwNvGrsMFCTzFzt8O/g11tDjURNlVll0gqqdmT/MH3/07TN acTyj8PTJwjZp0IjS9e9RmaJYnLHfXBB8CMXvie/k8z+P1ELSQEnErzpSc7BTQRbeoafARAA o46gijl1g7VNBBiRvimmfWqjRHY+xp7y+oPrMp2QCjcJiHpqyJXjDcEnnfGQSn40Ez2vzf4n vvU86+ewAUdQrEpr2qXE/YT5tzbRaAYqpDEjd+07DSKAiyAOlhEddJBKrozffKCi7M/+MCs/ E+IuxhjjRh7W+MEFqMf9/Lob0ECYUhBmCHrsnXrUkE+yU+N+7SMiQkfwaRWkVboGKyPf4G4o 6Kr8VVsaEL0MrdsdR50PGjdBafMQQNWQ+S7xmcklTuu3i3k2qkr9/mCD0vXX2dsLyXtkhWfW Ya6YgzWxzxKf95klriC8PSekC/KFIaaSkYYKpEaECnS39FH76a94KqkA9BtyhdPqBwyVKmp/ Lvq1YR0WAs0xy+BnNW63LrnALdtg8nYXeWuVrbgWJScIEY6UPi8iMTRAe2q3SIjuTq/pXbpG iTKEsI8uSE73+9vIX/Loy50zNLypVBAZc/6l1cmFWF99oR3jqz4H5zU8i775tCu2THp1JqfS hO3hsq42fpe5DoATKT1w227rsSBPPUOglbDDxL1kH+xLLpN17mrDSixW9IeYDIomR0h68ioQ fsh4FRSlGsvsJXD0GKRcI3Fw3ltzj1mq1Tlz+o2dd2saUZy7f2RHFAbKeBRZwf+jPZwTL6jo fiUbzD5j6NLLEQmmlnLqTCeG727p4PQrkYMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBG18as+4TFi9OKbV pGQm8vNivvW7BQJbeoafAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGQm8vNivvW7X/gQALUEuOJ0itHIHNvcXoBb XOFsgJlmJUEO5GPy6TTdk87vCUGClGxfQRQbnhXOtQSeh/+2FUI2mWG+tCk0pcs6tq0iABIb 0wXQAsz7ocGqOq8l9Rc6zPcyhuF7JlPlRzlzhAsmfW++OxLDhuoYf7I29w8n/AmxtWbiYPG1 FQEoVTpMREhWupRigvjspmhwwG13p69Rwm1UsvDPNR21sLUAXWW9gR3Olo6gWvMoQdX9nKN2 zt37pnU+jgre62pQYQpAvOFEcaq0Lfbhu0Xqjoev8cfEi8yRtMJhQJbBy+3D4c4fie1twTvy cI3YLd53LUvJsxpVwlp2bycEBwxBfFGxc38Q210oSIgxZODyEqXqPT3QLt6BKxhCCCrJiqO3 nfiWzJ/SYCiT5gO4nXJT+xSM4EIg+YaKSP7sZKkIQlWBWvXSrU3/Wc1ghO2d7yKjV2fMkuJB W7ErD9QgJFJCyEFD6kYbP/Zjsq7xBZIxYopAm2CzVqKWXSTstR+JfaloF06vTUG0oFN2aLKa ftmQvOPCR4bAanXnIFlUbjlGHg02bYOOs1w5mxIxvjsgCE2VGl2TJ9anOpMi/yTvg6LqgLLy gBTG118AAp5vSQodcduno0K8aHN4ebSCL1FJhyMNmAWgFuBS21MkMjcypSD25Ms9sFPX8CGp 5HCXQ43csuEeFS4T Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 18:58:44 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180928-0, 2018/09/28), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:58:51 -0000 SGksDQoNCkFsaWNlwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIFByb3h5wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoCBCb2INCsKgfCgxKSBJTlZJVEXCoMKgwqDCoCB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHwgU0U6IDM2MDDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPnzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfChhKSBJTlZJVEXC oMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwgU0U6IDI0MDDC oMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfC0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tPnwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfA0KwqB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8 KDIpIFVQREFURcKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAg 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[209.85.210.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p19-v6sm6333472pgh.60.2018.09.28.03.00.14 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f173.google.com with SMTP id d8-v6so3961854pfo.13 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:455b:: with SMTP id s88-v6mr15701613pfa.203.1538128814170; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:00:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:00:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5B2EE623-62AD-4BA9-811F-0E35965C04E3@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <94E6E147-EF78-4CD0-9B77-B7F3D2883F28@ericsson.com> <5B2EE623-62AD-4BA9-811F-0E35965C04E3@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:00:13 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009666b40576eb85c5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:00:22 -0000 --0000000000009666b40576eb85c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 3:00 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > Alice Proxy Bob (does > not support session timer) > > 1. ------ INVITE ------------=E2=86=92 > S-E: 100;refresher=3Duac > > 2. ------- INVITE ------------= -> > S-E: > 100;refresher=3Duac > > 3. <------ 18x > ------------------- > > 4. <------ 18x ---------------- > > 5. <------ UPDATE ------------= - > > 6. <------ UPDATE ---------- > S-E: 100 > 7. <------ 200 > ------------------- > > 8. <------ 200 ---------------- > S-E: 100;refresher=3Duac > > > The UPDATE in message 5 is sent while the INVITE transaction is still > active. > > In message 6, the proxy is not allowed (section 8.1) to include the > refresher parameter. However, in message 8, the proxy MUST (section 8.2) > include the refresher parameter. > > This means that the S-E in the UPDATE sent while the INVITE transaction i= s > still ongoing is not aligned with the 200 response to the INVITE. > > You are correct. This should not be a problem though since UDPATE will not include Supported: timer, so nothing except Alice being a refresher can be negotiated. Also, in your example if INVITE in 1 does not include refresher, proxy will still add refresher=3Duac in 8, since 200 OK in 7 does not include S-E or Supported: timer. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009666b40576eb85c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 3:00 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Alice=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bob (does not suppor= t session timer)

1. ------ INVITE ------------=E2=86=92
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S-E: 100;refresher=3Duac
2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ------- INVITE ------------->
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S-E: 100;refresher=3Duac
3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <------ 18x -------------------

4.=C2=A0 <------ 18x ----------------

5.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <------ UPDATE -------------

6.=C2=A0 <------ UPDATE ----------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S-E: 100
7.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <------ 200 -------------------

8.=C2=A0 <------ 200 ----------------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S-E: 100;refr= esher=3Duac


The UPDATE in message 5 is sent while the INVITE transaction is still activ= e.

In message 6, the proxy is not allowed (section 8.1) to include the refresh= er parameter. However, in message 8, the proxy MUST (section 8.2) include t= he refresher parameter.

This means that the S-E in the UPDATE sent while the INVITE transaction is = still ongoing is not aligned with the 200 response to the INVITE.


You are correct. This should not be a = problem though since UDPATE will not include Supported: timer, so nothing e= xcept Alice being a refresher can be negotiated.

A= lso, in your example if INVITE in 1 does not include refresher, proxy will = still add refresher=3Duac in 8, since 200 OK in 7 does not include S-E or S= upported: timer.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.210.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n22-v6sm8323902pfj.68.2018.09.28.03.04.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id j8-v6so3997875pff.6 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:04:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b7cb:: with SMTP id v11-v6mr1001396plz.79.1538129094724; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:04:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 03:04:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:04:54 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: OKUMURA Shinji Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004f540d0576eb961f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:04:59 -0000 --0000000000004f540d0576eb961f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:58 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Alice Proxy Bob > |(1) INVITE | | > | SE: 3600 | | > |-------------->| | > | |(a) INVITE | > | | SE: 2400 | > | |-------------->| > | | | > | |(2) UPDATE | > | |<--------------| > |(3) UPDATE | | > | SE: 2400 | | > |<--------------| | > | | | > |(4) 200(UPD) | | > | SE: 2400 | | > | refresher=uas | | > |-------------->| | > | |(b) 200(UPD) | > | | SE: 2400 | > | | refresher=uas | > | |-------------->| > | | | > | |(5) 200(INV) | > | |<--------------| > |(6) 200(INV) | | > | SE: 2400 | | > | refresher=uac | | > |<--------------| | > > The success response for the UPDATE is message 4. > The success response for the INVITE is message 6. > > The SE header in messages 4 and 6 will be identical. > Is that a problem? > This should not be a problem since there is no ambiguity about what is negotiated. _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000004f540d0576eb961f Content-Type: text/html; 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i=@ericsson.com; t=1538137948; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=B0c/9xWFnxiMuWl0s1upRp3ON+vV9zxHsNb6hJLOEsc=; b=hdTkmBnTHho/fhldegY05jc91TFsqxYL1KDdXQlrpxLn++X59/jcdpeOp8ewXWmw McBIDb3P1q8lfJSDyC6ACBPoPq2A4Mfj2Z1teZICpkCey39wcvU8uxB6HEpWCwlE hqHNRjTlmEtbr7TWnqSl4np2Gs0HZrTMcvsECk0Mqlc=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8e7ff700000013ad-35-5bae1f5c018c Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.118]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F7.60.05037.C5F1EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:32:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:32:27 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:32:27 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQ///uy4CAACU9UP//40aAAAS2A8f//+BfAIAAck21///wvwCAAGDUAIAAABeAgABctoA= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:32:27 +0000 Message-ID: <79EA8536-D160-4C71-B10B-8119E93FE0D7@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <94E6E147-EF78-4CD0-9B77-B7F3D2883F28@ericsson.com> <5B2EE623-62AD-4BA9-811F-0E35965C04E3@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4D84C61518E5594FB954AFE9D7FB00BD@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrOIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7mW6M/LpogyNLmCxmXJjKbPH1xyY2 ByaPJUt+MnncmlIQwBTFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlXF3yX/mgieiFR1flrE2MM4R7WLk5JAQMJGY dGQSexcjF4eQwFFGiRVre9kgnG+MEtMmN7CBVAkJLGOU+DYPyObgYBOwkOj+pw0SFhFQlfj7 fTITiM0sICdx/cNGsBJhgUKJhgdCECVFEt1HO1hARooIdDFKTPmyBKyeBaj3RN8hVpB6XgF7 ieu/pCA2vWCTaL9nCmJzCgRKrF80gRnEZhQQk/h+ag3UKnGJW0/mM0HcLyCxZM95ZghbVOLl 439gI0UF9CWmXQ6ACCtJbOndwgQSZhbQlFi/Sx9iirXE+nlHoSYqSkzpfsgOYvMKCEqcnPmE ZQKjxCwky2YhdM9C0j0LSfcsJN0LGFlXMYoWpxYn5aYbGeulFmUmFxfn5+nlpZZsYgRG38Et v1V3MF5+43iIUYCDUYmHd570umgh1sSy4srcQ4wSHMxKIrz7qtdGC/GmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQW H2KU5mBREud9aL45SkggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCbLxMEp1cCo7TCRtWBFhvycjN+iccI1RloTzFne Xk7eLayvuzya1zTto/bVyCbOzsfba994NQRGTrr+ePLL+iLdnP7T5d+19niqvQg9rXJf7p+c zuSGtUcSMhzT0hqLplt62T99nfyypryict9iYbXqOW6HH/59vc3w5e9nYhxFzCYTOFsYe15o zA4JuabEUpyRaKjFXFScCAAXzJYDugIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:32:32 -0000 SGksDQoNCsKgIMKgQWxpY2XCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDC oCBQcm94ecKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIMKgQm9iIChkb2VzIG5vdCBz dXBwb3J0IHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIpDQoNCjEuIC0tLS0tLSBJTlZJVEUgLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t4oaS DQrCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoFMtRTogMTAwO3JlZnJlc2hlcj11YWMNCg0KMi7CoCDCoCDC oCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDC oCAtLS0tLS0tIElOVklURSAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPg0KwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAg wqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAg wqBTLUU6IDEwMDtyZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFjDQoNCjMuwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAg wqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgPC0tLS0tLSAxOHggLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQo0LsKgIDwtLS0tLS0gMTh4IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KNS7C oCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDC oCDCoCDCoCA8LS0tLS0tIFVQREFURSAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCjYuwqAgPC0tLS0tLSBVUERB VEUgLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqBTLUU6IDEwMA0KNy7CoCDC oCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDCoCDC oCDCoCA8LS0tLS0tIDIwMCAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCjguwqAgPC0tLS0tLSAyMDAg LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgwqBTLUU6IDEwMDtyZWZy ZXNoZXI9dWFjDQoNCg0KPj4gVGhlIFVQREFURSBpbiBtZXNzYWdlIDUgaXMgc2VudCB3aGlsZSB0 aGUgSU5WSVRFIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uIGlzIHN0aWxsIGFjdGl2ZS4NCj4+DQo+PiBJbiBtZXNzYWdl IDYsIHRoZSBwcm94eSBpcyBub3QgYWxsb3dlZCAoc2VjdGlvbiA4LjEpIHRvIGluY2x1ZGUgdGhl IHJlZnJlc2hlciBwYXJhbWV0ZXIuIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGluIG1lc3NhZ2UgOCwgdGhlIHByb3h5IE1V U1QgKHNlY3Rpb24gOC4yKSBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSByZWZyZXNoZXIgcGFyYW1ldGVyLg0KPj4NCj4+ IFRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCB0aGUgUy1FIGluIHRoZSBVUERBVEUgc2VudCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgSU5W SVRFIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uIGlzIHN0aWxsIG9uZ29pbmcgaXMgbm90IGFsaWduZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUg MjAwIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIHRoZSBJTlZJVEUuDQo+DQo+IFlvdSBhcmUgY29ycmVjdC4gVGhpcyBz aG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGEgcHJvYmxlbSB0aG91Z2ggc2luY2UgVURQQVRFIHdpbGwgbm90IGluY2x1 ZGUgU3VwcG9ydGVkOiB0aW1lciwgc28gbm90aGluZyBleGNlcHQgQWxpY2UgYmVpbmcgYSByZWZy ZXNoZXIgY2FuIGJlIG5lZ290aWF0ZWQuDQoNCk15IHBvaW50IGlzIHRoYXQgd2UgY2Fubm90IGhh dmUgYSBnZW5lcmljIHJ1bGUgbWFuZGF0aW5nIHRoZSBwcm94eSB0byBpbnNlcnQgdGhlIHNhbWUg Uy1FIGluIHRoZSBtaWQtSU5WSVRFIHVwZGF0ZSBhcyBpdCB3aWxsIGluc2VydCBpbiB0aGUgMjAw IE9LIHJlc3BvbnNlLg0KDQpXZSBjYW4gcHJvYmFibHkgc29sdmUgaXQgYnkgc2F5aW5nIHNvbWV0 aGluZyBsaWtlOiAiTXVzdCBpbnNlcnQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZXIgdmFsdWUsIGFuZCBtdXN0IG5v dCBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHJlZnJlc2hlciIsIG9yIHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlIHRoYXQuDQoNCj4gQWxz bywgaW4geW91ciBleGFtcGxlIGlmIElOVklURSBpbiAxIGRvZXMgbm90IGluY2x1ZGUgcmVmcmVz aGVyLCBwcm94eSB3aWxsIHN0aWxsIGFkZCByZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFjIGluIDgsIHNpbmNlIDIwMCBP SyBpbiA3IGRvZXMgbm90IGluY2x1ZGUgUy1FIG9yIFN1cHBvcnRlZDogdGltZXIuDQoNCkNvcnJl Y3QuIA0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQoNCsKgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Sep 28 05:35:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE921130DF7 for ; 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q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538138096; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/dwXPujoqTIOz0X+bSX5xwTLYa8igx51NVOt+p4B+1Y=; b=GeIV6xkEowAXLxKz3TrTBsn6leDwCH3pwHpY8lMV2bFYc/Z+8v6SsVwAVTXt1LH2 dUu4q7OjuX2GqfU0YXrfzBXfvif7volaK6K0xZLeEoACIL80c+XjyPYDaRNDa/Qf /LqjfrhWzLQhaqqqaFQOD4H66Lj2tH1162onYmEN6gY=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8ffff700000013ad-fa-5bae1ff03571 Received: from ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.117]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B0.E0.05037.0FF1EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:34:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:34:55 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:34:55 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount , OKUMURA Shinji CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgA== Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:34:55 +0000 Message-ID: <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.0.180812 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <866188A2E1A853418090C4B28CA1008F@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7qe4H+XXRBs/aOS2W9K9hs1ix4QCr xYwLU5ktvv7YxObA4vH3/Qcmj52z7rJ7LFnyk8nj1pSCAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErowdzw8z FiwSqzi6/iNjA+MN0S5GTg4JAROJz+d3sXQxcnEICRxllDgwYxIbhPONUeLrnD3sEM4yRonb vy8DZTg42AQsJLr/aYN0iwj4SvTs72YCsZkFAiVOd+5iBykRFiiUaHggBFFSJNF9tIMFws6S OLfmNRuIzSKgKvH833+wOK+AvcT/1n9Qe6ewSPz5voodJMEJNPPrvLeMIDajgJjE91NroHaJ S9x6Mp8J4gMBiSV7zjND2KISLx//YwW5QVRAX2La5QCIsJLElt4tTCBhZgFNifW79CGmWEuc mPmFFcJWlJjS/ZAd4hxBiZMzn7BMYJSYhWTZLITuWUi6ZyHpnoWkewEj6ypG0eLU4qTcdCNj vdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwEg9uOW36g7Gy28cDzEKcDAq8fDOk14XLcSaWFZcmXuIUYKDWUmE d1/12mgh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjNIcLErivA/NN0cJCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZJk4OKUaGOs8 8253dEU3d19ZeU1PaL1MDU/d5IUnHxx4Jl3XkJ686fmXo5XlG1QsJPL/XmGyaPqVfW+ltdH6 haFvFyed6bTRWhVevafxwH1pcxWHnTJbTq+QUHU5zXE2/0JX3rn3/y8aXnm4oe1Cs5K5vE7U l3NX3yRV3pjq5T/r3ZWw4vNnt24Wiirc26zEUpyRaKjFXFScCAA0+9I/0AIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:35:01 -0000 SGksDQoNCkFsaWNlwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIFByb3h5wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCBCb2INCsKgfCgxKSBJTlZJVEXCoMKgwqDCoCB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCB8DQrCoHwgU0U6IDM2MDDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg IHwNCsKgfC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPnzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKg fMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfChhKSBJTlZJVEXCoMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHzC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwgU0U6IDI0MDDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPnwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfA0KwqB8 wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8KDIpIFVQREFURcKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfDwtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLXwNCsKgfCgzKSBVUERB VEXCoMKgwqDCoCB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHwgU0U6IDI0MDDC oMKgwqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfDwtLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLXzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfA0KwqB8KDQpIDIwMChV UEQpwqDCoCB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHwgU0U6IDI0MDDCoMKg wqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfCByZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFz IHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPnzCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqAgfChiKSAyMDAoVVBEKcKgwqAgfA0KwqB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8 IFNFOiAyNDAwwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8DQrCoHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwg cmVmcmVzaGVyPXVhcyB8DQrCoHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLT58DQrCoHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKgfMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgfCg1KSAy MDAoSU5WKcKgwqAgfA0KwqB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCB8PC0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tfA0KwqB8KDYpIDIwMChJTlYpwqDCoCB8wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCB8DQrCoHwgU0U6IDI0MDDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg IHwNCsKgfCByZWZyZXNoZXI9dWFjIHzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCsKg fDwtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLXzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIHwNCg0KPj4gVGhl IHN1Y2Nlc3MgcmVzcG9uc2UgZm9yIHRoZSBVUERBVEUgaXMgbWVzc2FnZSA0Lg0KPj4gVGhlIHN1 Y2Nlc3MgcmVzcG9uc2UgZm9yIHRoZSBJTlZJVEUgaXMgbWVzc2FnZSA2Lg0KPj4NCj4+IFRoZSBT RSBoZWFkZXIgaW4gbWVzc2FnZXMgNCBhbmQgNiB3aWxsIGJlIGlkZW50aWNhbC4NCj4+IElzIHRo YXQgYSBwcm9ibGVtPw0KPg0KPiBUaGlzIHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHNpbmNlIHRo ZXJlIGlzIG5vIGFtYmlndWl0eSBhYm91dCB3aGF0IGlzIG5lZ290aWF0ZWQuDQoNCkl0IG1heSBu b3QgY2F1c2UgYSBwcm9ibGVtIGluIHRoaXMgY2FzZSwgYnV0IG15IHBvaW50IGlzIHRoYXQgd2Ug Y2Fubm90IGhhdmUgYSBnZW5lcmljIHJ1bGUgbWFuZGF0aW5nIHRoZSBTLUUgb2YgdGhlIG1pZC1k aWFsb2cgVVBEQVRFIGFuZCB0aGUgSU5WSVRFIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIGJlIGlkZW50aWNhbC4NCg0K UmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KwqANCg0K From nobody Fri Sep 28 06:19:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4878A128C65 for ; 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[108.5.208.87]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a187-v6sm2719073qkd.47.2018.09.28.06.19.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 06:19:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Lennox Message-Id: <06158AC9-0A06-43E4-A810-BC525AD5D6C9@vidyo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6FCD45FF-37BF-4BC6-81CB-EF2531DED5BB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:19:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6ecef7493a2347399ca49099e79b9c36@ericsson.com> Cc: SIPCORE , Roman Shpount To: Christer Holmberg References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> <6ecef7493a2347399ca49099e79b9c36@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 13:19:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6FCD45FF-37BF-4BC6-81CB-EF2531DED5BB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I actually like PURR, though. (It gives us an opportunity for pictures = of cats, which are always good.) > On Sep 28, 2018, at 3:29 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Ok, I got the abbreviation wrong =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t know where = the F came from :) > =20 > =20 > =C2=A0 <> > From: Christer Holmberg=20 > Sent: 28 September 2018 10:23 > To: Christer Holmberg ; Jonathan = Lennox > Cc: SIPCORE ; Roman Shpount > Subject: RE: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered = notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > =20 > Would =E2=80=98PURF (Proxy Unique Registration Reference)=E2=80=99 be = better? > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer > =20 > From: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg > Sent: 27 September 2018 19:04 > To: Jonathan Lennox > > Cc: SIPCORE >; Roman = Shpount > > Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered = notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > =20 > Give me a better name and I=E2=80=99ll change it=E2=80=A6 > =20 > From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com = ]=20 > Sent: 27 September 2018 18:57 > To: Christer Holmberg > > Cc: Roman Shpount >; = SIPCORE > > Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered = notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > =20 > I have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it unfortunate to have = a new object called a =E2=80=9CPURK=E2=80=9D when the IETF is also = working on a mechanism called =E2=80=9CPERC=E2=80=9D... > =20 >=20 > On Sep 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > =20 > Hi, > =20 > Are people (others than Roman) ok with this? I=E2=80=99d like to merge = the PR and submit a new version of the draft. > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer > =20 > From: Roman Shpount > > Date: Saturday 22 September 2018 at 00:08 > To: Christer Holmberg > > Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org " > > Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered = notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > =20 > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > =20 > >This update looks good. The only remaining question is should proxy = generated >new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically based on = local policy. In RFC >5627, temp-gruu was generated on each binding = refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand. > =20 > Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I = don=E2=80=99t think we should mandate a new value for each refresh. > =20 > =20 > In this case, current update looks good to me. > =20 > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore = > =20 --Apple-Mail=_6FCD45FF-37BF-4BC6-81CB-EF2531DED5BB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = actually like PURR, though.  (It gives us an opportunity for = pictures of cats, which are always good.)

On Sep = 28, 2018, at 3:29 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Ok, I got the = abbreviation wrong =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t know where the F came from = :)

 

 

 

From: Christer Holmberg
Sent: 28 September 2018 10:23
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; Jonathan Lennox = <jonathan@vidyo.com>
Cc: SIPCORE <sipcore@ietf.org>; Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Subject: RE: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog = request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - = Pull request

 

Would =E2=80=98PURF = (Proxy Unique Registration Reference)=E2=80=99 be better?

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

From: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg
Sent: 27 September 2018 19:04
To: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com>
Cc: SIPCORE <sipcore@ietf.org>; Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog = request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - = Pull request

 

Give me a better name = and I=E2=80=99ll change it=E2=80=A6

 

From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com]
Sent: 27 September 2018 18:57
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>; = SIPCORE <sipcore@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog = request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - = Pull request

 

I have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it = unfortunate to have a new object called a =E2=80=9CPURK=E2=80=9D when = the IETF is also working on a mechanism called =E2=80=9CPERC=E2=80=9D...

 

On Sep 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, = Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

 

Hi,

 

Are people (others than Roman) ok with this? I=E2=80=99d like = to merge the PR and submit a new version of the draft.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

From: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Date: Saturday 22 September = 2018 at 00:08
To: Christer = Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" <sipcore@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push = with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text = using PURK - Pull request

 

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

 

>This update looks good. The only remaining question is should = proxy generated >new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically based on local policy. In = RFC >5627, temp-gruu was = generated on each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new >value on demand.

 

Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary = quite much, I don=E2=80=99t think we should mandate a new value for each = refresh.

 

 

In this case, current update looks good to me.

 

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount


 

_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

 


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(Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 9D.24.12695.7CC2EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:29:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:29:43 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:29:43 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Jonathan Lennox CC: SIPCORE , Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROaT6rz+AgAA3Z4D///owYoAAG0xQ///mAQCAACfboIAAD62AgAWlEwCAA3HMgIAAI0MwgAEAzKCAAAFYwIAAQOiAgAA1EYA= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 13:29:43 +0000 Message-ID: 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Fri Sep 28 07:05:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB47129BBF; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:05:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipcore@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: sipcore@ietf.org Message-ID: <153814350012.27189.3544244192464183466@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:05:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-17.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:05:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF. Title : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Authors : Christer Holmberg Michael Arnold Filename : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-17.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2018-09-28 Abstract: This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP requests. The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to trigger such push notification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 28 07:06:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527431292F1 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:06:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B08ykEymRRPB for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2823B130DEA for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:06:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538143578; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2rZjPN+uMnkDXThqdJmTLc1qJDhhnaJBzZ5s9SgCGk4=; b=HfOlE+YCsQt0yjfiDnaDmrnhuI1M6F8F0kLfMVH1S+HRFJF94Zoympff+Jc5VbFZ fwvQfQ4ePuPNa5dagkBzgBgZLdedUhqnpTwFxTAMoy9+lBo3JP1nWRa29k2NoT0b c5rAfm9ABUOSOHEX7LZH6Qz+aAxrhcWoU1gqP4MCOX8=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8ffff700000013ad-db-5bae355a1c2c Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CE.94.05037.A553EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; 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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mkz0nCBIBrxg for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A8A130DEA for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:45:03 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-1a7ff70000000c6c-a6-5bae3e6e8597 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id CE.62.03180.E6E3EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SEj11F020705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:45:02 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:45:01 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJtnty7a4OxCXYuvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY9Z//4JPHBXTrl5hbGBsYu9i5OSQEDCRuDDlNGsXIxeHkMAO JonjD68wQjg/mCRObFrNDFIlLGAh0Xh6GiuILSIgIvFs+j82EFtIwF6i6WkfWJxNQEtizqH/ LCA2L1B8+txnjCA2i4CqRHN3H9gcUYE0ib+dSxghagQlTs58AlbPKeAgsWfzdrA5zAJmEvM2 P2SGsMUlbj2ZzwRhy0s0b53NPIGRfxaS9llIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRrnEnNJc3dzEzJzi1GTd 4uTEvLzUIl0zvdzMEr3UlNJNjJCgFNrBuP6k3CFGAQ5GJR7ehEdrooVYE8uKK3MPMUpyMCmJ 8l5WWRctxJeUn1KZkVicEV9UmpNafIhRgoNZSYR3X/XaaCHelMTKqtSifJiUNAeLkjgvs8ne KCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpisDAeHkgSvsC3QUMGi1PTUirTMnBKENBMHJ8hwHqDhRSA1vMUFibnF mekQ+VOMuhx7vjbNYBZiycvPS5US540FKRIAKcoozYObA0smrxjFgd4S5uUAqeIBJiK4Sa+A ljABLRE5sAZkSUkiQkqqgTF2YvfN9FrfV3KXPUx+T3LNuiTTqf5mxxu5jpzcDqdWpnKVryon ZddldYml+1b5ckStWxM24cFRTq3rUlV3tdcWcB74yG5uvWDjRY2/6jOnbnq4wtNL9O3878tS +yR0Nkw+s0D23/foCwsWhmlP0s06/ehZ88TaeNd/amoOL18fk9xhd0n/5AQlluKMREMt5qLi RAAa5PHnAQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:45:06 -0000 Christer, The new changes seem workable. There is one case that I think is not currently covered: when a UA that requires push support is the recipient of a dialog establishing request. It doesn't appear that the purk mechanism covers this case. Thanks, Paul On 9/26/18 5:45 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I have submitted a new version (-15) of SIP Push. > > The draft now contains a new section (6.  Support Of Longlived SIP > Dialogs), that describes a generic (not specific to NOTIFY) mechanism > for mid-dialog SIP requests triggering push notifications. > > The mechanism is based on the push proxy generating a unique value, > provided to the UA during registration. The UA can then use the value > when establishing dialogs, which will allow the push proxy to retrieve > the push parameters when receiving a mid-dialog request. > > Thanks to everyone who provided input and feedback! > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Fri Sep 28 07:58:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCC4130E1F for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:58:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53git-XsZcl0 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.7.68.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97BFF130DEA for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440e-1c9ff70000000b1d-4e-5bae418ed22b Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id FA.70.02845.F814EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SEwLnx021552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:58:22 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <153562545519.3315.10133281272170915663@ietfa.amsl.com> <2CB92AFA-E837-4533-A7E8-5D4E228A5A2D@ericsson.com> <56e47bc5-d510-69e6-f297-76c6069c805d@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:58:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYndR1J3guC7aYN9LQYsLMw8zWnz9sYnN gcnj19erbB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MrYuKq44AxnxfWZ7SwNjAfZuxg5OSQETCS6 154Hsrk4hAR2MEkcaVzJCOE8ZJJoOrmLBaRKWMBPYsGhpUwgtohAmkTPxH6ojs1MEo0rnoGN YhPQkphz6D9YA6+AvcSqDT/ZQGwWAVWJO1uesoLYokDNfzuXMELUCEqcnPkErJ5TwEbid/Ma sBpmATOJeZsfMkPY4hK3nsxngrDlJba/ncM8gZF/FpL2WUhaZiFpmYWkZQEjyypGucSc0lzd 3MTMnOLUZN3i5MS8vNQiXWO93MwSvdSU0k2MkFDl28HYvl7mEKMAB6MSD+8M+3XRQqyJZcWV uYcYJTmYlER5L6sAhfiS8lMqMxKLM+KLSnNSiw8xSnAwK4nw7qteGy3Em5JYWZValA+TkuZg URLnZTPZGyUkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWgSTleHgUJLgjXUAGipYlJqeWpGWmVOCkGbi4AQZzgM03AWk hre4IDG3ODMdIn+K0ZJjz9emGcwcq2Z0AMm2p9dnMAux5OXnpUqJ85aANAiANGSU5sHNhKWe V4ziQC8K84aAVPEA0xbc1FdAC5mAFoocWAOysCQRISXVwGihNvOmqvnETb6Lbm1VOmnXtPzT vlvOP77NirwxvXStYtdDydLTBvk3mxqm2JY/PrdLn8Esa0HQxOc706be75FPzWS8kfyE55DE OmOeuZc2LPyys+dvY9+EbVeXPWATnPPA75Y8/4a1ZZvNLqZucbjHnDt357HHVVI3uiOk8lbf nZB89ZzzqpMNSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAkYij6xgDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:58:28 -0000 On 9/26/18 3:05 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Ideally we would rewrite the whole explanation and change the terminology. I guess this would be a bis. > > There have been some discussion on whether we should do that - instead of just trying to fix pieces here and there. > > But, as I have indicated previously, I first want us to agree on HOW to fix, and then we can discuss how to document it. I'm starting to lose track of the things that have been considered, rejected, etc. ISTM that we are still struggling with what happens in obscure cases. It seems that some cases will always break somebody when some parties implement the update and others don't. And who has to change to make the fix. This will not be entirely pain free. It would be helpful to me to have some information about what implementations of timer exist in the wild, why it is used, and what limitations those implementations have. For instance, I have a sense that a lot of UAs request timers on their own. I have no idea why. I would expect it to only be requested by proxies. And since a lot of intermediaries are actually b2buas rather than true proxies, the demand ought to be even less. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Sep 28 09:11:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED87C12F1A5 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4tZcFenvBaUI for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB121294D0 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:11:11 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-7a9ff70000000b27-1e-5bae529ce746 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id FA.F3.02855.D925EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SGB72b025634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:11:08 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:11:07 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqDsvaF20wZp3ghZff2xic2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxtfvZ5kK9vJWzDl1m7GB8TxXFyMnh4SAicTXz+/Yuhi5OIQE djBJrF/Wywrh/GCSeDLnGHMXIweHsEChRMMDIZAGEQERiWfT/0E1tDFKrF08nxkkwSagJTHn 0H8WEJtXwF6i+90XMJtFQFWi8dJ3RhBbVCBN4m/nEkaIGkGJkzOfgNVwCgRKtM5qYQKxmQXM JOZtfsgMYYtL3HoyHyouL9G8dTbzBEb+WUjaZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsY5RJzSnN1cxMzc4pT k3WLkxPz8lKLdE30cjNL9FJTSjcxQsKSfwdj13qZQ4wCHIxKPLwz7NdFC7EmlhVX5h5ilORg UhLlvawCFOJLyk+pzEgszogvKs1JLT7EKMHBrCTCu696bbQQb0piZVVqUT5MSpqDRUmcl9Vk b5SQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMVoaDQ0mCd0og0FDBotT01Iq0zJwShDQTByfIcB6g4ctBaniLCxJz izPTIfKnGI059nxtmsHM0fb0+gxmIZa8/LxUKXHemSClAiClGaV5cNNgqeUVozjQc8K8B0Cq eIBpCW7eK6BVTECrRA6sAVlVkoiQkmpglFh8VfrxriMyXcyuQj7LP92Ky7p6+bSGg5v3vwuS Jn0PZiWcfZ4w1+ho5SGJeOsfPt4BcvFhUYvfXFyYbRihtaVFfHn37U2v/l04uJxz3hH+TSqP bLe1KYVuF77y4caz5dua5h+yP1mZN8HXIjjuP3cKf9jPdj+XAg7npIfvU5br2x/+kMN7WYml OCPRUIu5qDgRAFiuAwcIAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:11:14 -0000 On 9/27/18 1:30 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > Assume Alice and Bob negotiates usage of the session-timer, and > Alice becomes the refresher. > > __ __ > > Now, if Bob for whatever reasons needs to send an UPDATE/re-INVITE > request, is that a session refresh request? I.e., that the rules > about adding S-E etc apply to it? My initial reading is that it does > NOT apply – but again, the text is not that clear.____ > > Yes, it is a session refresh request. Any INVITE/UPDATE request in the > dialog where session timer is negotiated is a session refresh request. > S-E rules do apply to it. The alternative would be stopping the session > timer. Agree. I will reiterate that the concepts and terminology are all messed up and not very consistent with the actual mechanism. Think of it this way: every new INVITE/UPDATE within the dialog is a new and distinct negotiation of session timer, independent of what was previously negotiated. If the transaction successfully completes, then the new timer (or non-timer) negotiated *replaces* whatever was previously in effect. The timer expiring is one mechanism for triggering an INVITE/UPDATE transaction that provides a keep-alive. Other reasons for sending INVITE/UPDATE will preempt that. This discussion is further convincing me we should simply begin working on a bis. It should be a major rewrite of the expository text, while the actual mechanism can remain the same except for clearing up the race we have been discussing. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Sep 28 09:28:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12BF130E63 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:28:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KoIhAfr9999E for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu [18.7.68.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4945412008A for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:28:04 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074414-9a5ff70000000bb6-bd-5bae5693e2d3 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 52.B6.02998.3965EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SGS1OK026696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:02 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:01 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqDs5bF20we0OOYsLMw8zWizpX8Nm MePCVGaLrz82sTmwePz6epXNY+esu+weS5b8ZPK4NaUggCWKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK+N143SW glaRip6fW5kbGA/ydzFycEgImEjc2hbWxcjFISSwg0ni7q4+dgjnIZPEnxnr2EGKhAUKJRoe CHUxcnKICNhIzLs0nw0kzCyQJPGlhxWi/AmTxPHV+9lAatgEtCTmHPrPAmLzCthL7Jv/Asxm EVCVuNf4HqxGVCBN4m/nEkaIGkGJkzOfgNVwCthK3Nhwjx3EZhYwk5i3+SEzhC0ucevJfCYI W15i+9s5zBMYBWYhaZ+FpGUWkpZZSFoWMLKsYpRLzCnN1c1NzMwpTk3WLU5OzMtLLdK10MvN LNFLTSndxAgJcpEdjEdOyh1iFOBgVOLhnWG/LlqINbGsuDL3EKMkB5OSKO9lFaAQX1J+SmVG YnFGfFFpTmrxIUYJDmYlEd591WujhXhTEiurUovyYVLSHCxK4rzMJnujhATSE0tSs1NTC1KL YLIyHBxKErz+oUBDBYtS01Mr0jJzShDSTBycIMN5gIZngNTwFhck5hZnpkPkTzEac+z52jSD mWPbmc4ZzEIsefl5qVLivIYgpQIgpRmleXDTYInqFaM40HPCvO0gVTzAJAc37xXQKiagVSIH 1oCsKklESEk1MPIv2qS8fW+EssMTRqOndly/Uy8Vz75Z/n3K60/Rb/p+pzzR/7Bhj0N62bXP LRI8G5o/T21ewKl27lp8ZGErQ8ilTTsfrGDfo7l1zl4OncMhtoz9K1Wmz5ZKTlofMW/zo+fz 7luF7hJJkl/i3uNfdD9/1r/0/sOXf6o7Hja9e+S15jeB+cs/p4opsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAeZ9I 8i8DAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:28:06 -0000 On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi, Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here! > It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. > If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem, These all seem good to me, except comment at end. > Assuming that Alice's UA and proxies support timer, Bob's UA does not support timer, > > [scenario 1] > 1. Alice sends 1st INVITE with SE > 2. Bob returns 200 without SE > 3. proxies add SE refresher=uacto the response > > [scenario 2] > 1. Alice sends 1st INVITE with SE > 2. Bob sends UPDATE without SE > 3. proxies may add SE to the UPDATE request > 4. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) with SE refresher=uas (Table 2) > 5. Bob returns 200(INVITE) without SE > 6. proxy add SE refresher=uacto the response > > [scenario 3] no session timer > 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE > 2. no proxies add SE to the request > 3. Alice returns 200 without SE > > 3: ISTM the behavior of UAS(section 9) is unclear when UAC does not support timer. > > [scenario 4] > 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE > 2. proxies may add SE to the request > 3. Alice returns 200 with SE refresher=uas (Table 2) > > [scenario 5] > 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE > 2. no proxies add SE to the request > 3. Bob sends UPDATE without SE > 4. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) without SE > 5. Alice returns 200(INVITE) without SE > > [scenario 6] > 1. Bob sends 1st INVITE without SE > 2. proxies adds SE to the INVITE request > 3. Bob sends UPDATE without SE > 4. proxies add SE to the UPDATE request > 5. Alice returns 200(UPDATE) with SE refresher=uas (Table 2) > 6. Alice returns 200(INVITE) with SE refresher=uas (Table 2) > > [scenario 7] refresh > 1. Alice sends UPDATE with SE refresher=uac > 2. Bob returns 200 without SE > 3. proxies add SE refresher=uac to the response > > [scenario 8] unintended refresh > 1. Bob sends UPDATE without SE > 2. proxies add SEto the UPDATE request > 3. Alice returns 200 with SE(refresher=uas) > > [scenario 9] turn-off > 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE > 2. no proxies add SE to the request > 3. Bob returns 200 without SE > > 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC > 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior > 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9. This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Sep 28 09:34:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D73130E59 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QncJqlEHnrNI for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.7.68.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282A1128D0C for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440e-1b1ff70000000b1d-5d-5bae581fa38b Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 41.E4.02845.0285EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SGYctL027057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:34:39 -0400 To: sipcore@ietf.org References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> <59291bd54666420f94e9f1952abefa1d@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <8b160b67-cf1e-ec8e-df59-daa3d45b6543@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:34:38 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <59291bd54666420f94e9f1952abefa1d@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqKsYsS7aYPsteYuvPzaxOTB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr4+3K42wFG+UrHl/4xtbA+F+ii5GTQ0LAROLIi/WMXYxcHEIC O5gkut/0QTk/mCTmrnjLBlIlLNDMKLHhXxiILSIgIvFs+j82iKLHrBJf56xgB0mwCWhJzDn0 nwXE5hWwlzhx8S5YnEVAVeLc4y+sILaoQJrE384ljBA1ghInZz4Bq+cUsJG40zwHrIZZwExi 3uaHzBC2uMStJ/OZIGx5ieats5knMPLPQtI+C0nLLCQts5C0LGBkWcUol5hTmqubm5iZU5ya rFucnJiXl1qka6yXm1mil5pSuokREph8Oxjb18scYhTgYFTi4Z1hvy5aiDWxrLgy9xCjJAeT kijvZRWgEF9SfkplRmJxRnxRaU5q8SFGCQ5mJRHefdVro4V4UxIrq1KL8mFS0hwsSuK8bCZ7 o4QE0hNLUrNTUwtSi2CyMhwcShK8NuFAQwWLUtNTK9Iyc0oQ0kwcnCDDeYCGe4PU8BYXJOYW Z6ZD5E8xGnPs+do0g5mj7en1GcxCLHn5ealS4rymIKUCIKUZpXlw02DJ5RWjONBzwryfw4Cq eICJCW7eK6BVTECrRA6sAVlVkoiQkmpgbJv/UGONzE9JKz1pI7a3C7jPWf/9wq0fb7l6kkMs RyfH0lc/5Z/F7qv7F6/fJSfc4SWkFbmZObm0oCz4GVPxEqm40vhLp4//avauY3xpzHMt9Myj 9rbQu9nHDr90Tkp5nOktuzxjjcoWFlWXUxMvcFd/dLv66sGC3TcX6k2qkJvbeLyw7oGJEktx RqKhFnNRcSIA85i8JgkDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:34:46 -0000 On 9/28/18 3:41 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > ‘PURP (Proxy Unique Registration Pointer)’ > > ‘URP (Unique Registration Pointer)’ I don't like the use of "pointer" here. These are not pointers. They are identifiers. URID would work, though it may be too similar to other things. How about UPRID (Unique Proxy Registration ID), or PURID. Or what about Proxy Unique Temporary Registration ID (PUTRID)? :) Thanks, Paul > *From:*Christer Holmberg > *Sent:* 28 September 2018 10:23 > *To:* Christer Holmberg ; Jonathan > Lennox > *Cc:* SIPCORE ; Roman Shpount > *Subject:* RE: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered > notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > > Would ‘PURF (Proxy Unique Registration Reference)’ be better? > > Regards, > > Christer > > *From:*sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Christer > Holmberg > *Sent:* 27 September 2018 19:04 > *To:* Jonathan Lennox > > *Cc:* SIPCORE >; Roman > Shpount > > *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered > notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > > Give me a better name and I’ll change it… > > *From:*Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] > *Sent:* 27 September 2018 18:57 > *To:* Christer Holmberg > > *Cc:* Roman Shpount >; > SIPCORE > > *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered > notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > > I have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it unfortunate to have a > new object called a “PURK” when the IETF is also working on a mechanism > called “PERC”... > > On Sep 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Christer Holmberg > > wrote: > > Hi, > > Are people (others than Roman) ok with this? I’d like to merge the > PR and submit a new version of the draft. > > Regards, > > Christer > > *From:*Roman Shpount > > *Date:*Saturday 22 September 2018 at 00:08 > *To:*Christer Holmberg > > *Cc:*"sipcore@ietf.org " > > *Subject:*Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered > notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg > > wrote: > > >This update looks good. The only remaining question is should > proxy generated>new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically > based on local policy. In RFC>5627, temp-gruu was generated on > each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new>value on demand. > > Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I > don’t think we should mandate a new value for each refresh. > > In this case, current update looks good to me. > > Regards, > > _____________ > Roman Shpount > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > > > > _______________________________________________ > sipcore mailing list > sipcore@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore > From nobody Fri Sep 28 09:48:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F914130E16 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id okKNDg5YSPqT for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D8DF128D0C for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id x17-v6so4705780pfh.5 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lsTC9zAaj9KQC0XbixfzeiCCANOLPpIrYOPY1OghYEQ=; b=kk71EEYreYg0FTIhw2Y7L89fZY2KLBHEixfUIGufBeHxBRT6mUSf+Ec6KD1JXzO7Zm 0/0AShIFDFW2peV3DsptXVNlE0WWYWKyDsGyUuACdvfqWV6VCLAPSW7NHoNS2DGrY5zL kL4gSF7YbwXIlByzns43pSX+mq3pijqSIPaOYGsYT/pbpoqLV8ZiG2uCgfOMVc3igG+2 luP1LBBSeHEWyw6laLEetNYLIjqc5DKYrywlQWREeAju6fnT2Mzrhz/QdY5mD3XEgMPR JCNmXOxvAMw9qZcjU26tZb5xK9enOSslngNQ1nWo20yKd9qqDLn0W8NeWOM9dtlKX3iJ b45w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lsTC9zAaj9KQC0XbixfzeiCCANOLPpIrYOPY1OghYEQ=; b=FVRyRoIkIQFppvHe6ZE5flHpYFz2pGfbgJedKcf69zmm/n/8Cl7E7H9AFtQf4Swmkd qYP8aNcntd5KQpnWp5+cIHiCJ7Ru+T7yT6MrPJLwrNBXPaB47TQh2xlu3w7v6F451IrG E9R6GOyGD9VPwFXUTmZu7cAnFNGp4ZfFBU8ESbHKeIVn5gF04qocAXR8/svVWRbdKnD3 mi0qEybZrF3IWVYpBxS5cwMZNTaEt380gDkVF/SL8cRfKy1CAR1z/F/Kbjdi8Rbp36Sq RQVQw89654tCmR/mi+F00fgb3JHuvlqcrP/KY1BGQTyRwW1xcz1dIUMnpIJxnbGHg3WF 6WgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoj/4vlZDO78TQyFEfMMC+GrYlYPJjsFtTFGscjb7vl78955yN2A yFY4abl9VG5wCb2sBEiObSbWF85l3vU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63AiAwHN0QXt5tQnm/noxVdxSlQev+e6tIe7KWWLhcue/ysZ2179yZLsfhnXfQ4gXeN2ViUwg== X-Received: by 2002:a62:e110:: with SMTP id q16-v6mr9588252pfh.75.1538153293600; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f172.google.com (mail-pg1-f172.google.com. [209.85.215.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b81-v6sm15432171pfm.96.2018.09.28.09.48.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f172.google.com with SMTP id b129-v6so4844775pga.13 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:1752:: with SMTP id 18-v6mr16050745pgx.131.1538153292648; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:48:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:48:12 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e55460576f138a3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:48:16 -0000 --0000000000009e55460576f138a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we cannot > have a generic rule mandating the S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the > INVITE response to be identical. > I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E expiration or refresher on random basis. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000009e55460576f138a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Ch= rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we can= not have a generic rule mandating the S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the = INVITE response to be identical.

I mean= t to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E expiration or ref= resher on random basis.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--0000000000009e55460576f138a3-- From nobody Fri Sep 28 09:53:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD670130E77 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:53:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kw8rOWViTflY for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0898B130E74 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:53:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538153618; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=40k5J8dglQnBbCRk3WDpDnONNmbAO6GAVzkanvhidK0=; b=ay7tqnI6kCo677Ybki5fgiSVR5sGc4uHtxkj7ciJJtnSPm8wIhKU4B0XpCdtZbXp eAT+MoEq32PvblLJ215EZqKbNtQGQfXf2SWuQheygy0MRgs7kG3m5+V0ZdXiVh13 pHJFPdAXeGlXG/t5Mo1XD4JULyoWyY4VesESyhkhZQE=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-e0-5bae5c92caeb Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DD.63.22015.29C5EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 18:53:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 18:53:37 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 18:53:37 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request Thread-Index: AQHUUa7eTJ+hvSxii0mbhZOQZV2ROaT6rz+AgAA3Z4D///owYoAAG0xQ///mAQCAACfboIAAD62AgAWlEwCAA3HMgIAAI0MwgAEAzKCAAATEUIAAdAkAgAAm1mE= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:53:37 +0000 Message-ID: <4609F16F-685A-4DC8-A460-D453716FA09A@ericsson.com> References: 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D54112958B for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ra4sx8A1BJf for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5634130DF4 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 12:28:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-df1ff70000000b07-a5-5bae80c922bf Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 31.AE.02823.9C08EAB5; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8SJS7UB004486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:28:09 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <61AD41E5-BD92-4E9D-86EF-181197208BC7@ericsson.com> <7907AB0C-A86C-42CA-9350-F4C70447B644@ericsson.com> <29A03E81-BF14-4F12-8B5B-8EC2C1BEBEC6@ericsson.com> <36d1e339ba9843bfb657c29c8f90e495@ericsson.com> <11c8e33a6bc1429c92d53632365939df@ericsson.com> <125364D9-9574-407E-903C-39994CDE2971@ericsson.com> <724F81BC-E68F-4940-861C-904F82B0D2E2@vidyo.com> <03ed1101830a41258019ee3ad1dc3698@ericsson.com> <59291bd54666420f94e9f1952abefa1d@ericsson.com> <8b160b67-cf1e-ec8e-df59-daa3d45b6543@alum.mit.edu> <4609F16F-685A-4DC8-A460-D453716FA09A@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <0b277b7e-dbb4-5067-cb69-38fff2423937@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:28:07 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4609F16F-685A-4DC8-A460-D453716FA09A@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqHuyYV20wYf3hhYXZh5mtPj6YxOb A5PHr69X2TyWLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJXxb+dU5oKXyhWL311na2BcJdvFyMkhIWAi 8avpPVsXIxeHkMAOJonGF5uhnIdMEos+XGcCqRIWaGaU2PAvDMQWETCTuP65FyzOLKApsXnd BXaIhvNsEqfebWYGSbAJaEnMOfSfpYuRg4NXwF7i4islEJNFQFWiv80bpEJUIE3ib+cSRhCb V0BQ4uTMJywgNqeAg8SL60fYIcabSczb/JAZwhaXuPVkPtRaeYnmrbOZJzAKzELSPgtJyywk LbOQtCxgZFnFKJeYU5qrm5uYmVOcmqxbnJyYl5dapGuql5tZopeaUrqJERLAgjsYZ5yUO8Qo wMGoxMM7w35dtBBrYllxZe4hRkkOJiVR3ssqQCG+pPyUyozE4oz4otKc1OJDjBIczEoivLdj gXK8KYmVValF+TApaQ4WJXFeZpO9UUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZGQ4OJQne6/VAjYJFqempFWmZ OSUIaSYOTpDhPEDDl4HU8BYXJOYWZ6ZD5E8xWnLs+do0g5njw7EOINn29PoMZiGWvPy8VClx 3pkgDQIgDRmleXAzYQnpFaM40IvCvKtAqniAyQxu6iughUxAC0UOrAFZWJKIkJJqYHTQOq6R +kg4RXmNUjL77VcfJ89bJPNo6oyfZ19IZdSbtkvUNl0X+Bb0lGVH3Zcduyc/umIW6Jf873EQ U9qvvnUf1tlFxX5PuGi+Y85v6xszmqUTdP9ofn7g4f58xrPwoH1yTiIX1J00Lmh5XPyY2Ph4 Gu/0G31Lkxec3PCu66XVwmtzRfdkmgQqsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIA9O6hoyMDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 19:28:13 -0000 On 9/28/18 12:53 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Jonathan liked PURR (Proxy Unique Registration Reference), so I changed to that and submitted a new version. I hope people are on with that. I'm fine with that, though PUTRID would be fun. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > > Christer > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 28 Sep 2018, at 19.34, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >>> On 9/28/18 3:41 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >>> ‘PURP (Proxy Unique Registration Pointer)’ >>> ‘URP (Unique Registration Pointer)’ >> >> I don't like the use of "pointer" here. These are not pointers. They are identifiers. URID would work, though it may be too similar to other things. How about UPRID (Unique Proxy Registration ID), or PURID. >> >> Or what about Proxy Unique Temporary Registration ID (PUTRID)? :) >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >>> *From:*Christer Holmberg >>> *Sent:* 28 September 2018 10:23 >>> *To:* Christer Holmberg ; Jonathan Lennox >>> *Cc:* SIPCORE ; Roman Shpount >>> *Subject:* RE: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request >>> Would ‘PURF (Proxy Unique Registration Reference)’ be better? >>> Regards, >>> Christer >>> *From:*sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Christer Holmberg >>> *Sent:* 27 September 2018 19:04 >>> *To:* Jonathan Lennox > >>> *Cc:* SIPCORE >; Roman Shpount > >>> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request >>> Give me a better name and I’ll change it… >>> *From:*Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] >>> *Sent:* 27 September 2018 18:57 >>> *To:* Christer Holmberg > >>> *Cc:* Roman Shpount >; SIPCORE > >>> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request >>> I have no comment on the mechanism, but I find it unfortunate to have a new object called a “PURK” when the IETF is also working on a mechanism called “PERC”... >>> On Sep 25, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Christer Holmberg >>> >> > wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Are people (others than Roman) ok with this? I’d like to merge the >>> PR and submit a new version of the draft. >>> Regards, >>> Christer >>> *From:*Roman Shpount > >>> *Date:*Saturday 22 September 2018 at 00:08 >>> *To:*Christer Holmberg >> > >>> *Cc:*"sipcore@ietf.org " >> > >>> *Subject:*Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with mid-dialog request triggered >>> notifications: Way forward - The text using PURK - Pull request >>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Christer Holmberg >>> >> > wrote: >>> >This update looks good. The only remaining question is should >>> proxy generated>new PURK on each binding refresh or periodically >>> based on local policy. In RFC>5627, temp-gruu was generated on >>> each binding refresh so that UA can obtain new>value on demand. >>> Since the frequency of binding refreshes can vary quite much, I >>> don’t think we should mandate a new value for each refresh. >>> In this case, current update looks good to me. >>> Regards, >>> _____________ >>> Roman Shpount >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sipcore mailing list >>> sipcore@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sipcore mailing list >>> sipcore@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sipcore mailing list >> sipcore@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore From nobody Fri Sep 28 13:31:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CAD130E68 for ; 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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:34:47 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:34:47 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkA= Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:34:47 +0000 Message-ID: <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iW7GhHXRBstaJC2W9K9hs1ix4QCr xYwLU5ktvv7YxObA4vH3/Qcmj52z7rJ7LFnyk8nj1pSCAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroxdV8oK /rBWLJ/xjbGB8QVrFyMHh4SAicTG29JdjFwcQgJHGSX2T1jEBOF8Y5S4tf8bC4SzjFHiTMdv FpAONgELie5/2l2MnBwiAqoSf79PZgIJMwtUSrQvSQIJCwsUSjT+OMwCUVIk0X20A8ouk7j/ 6ywriM0C1DrtUQsTiM0rYC2xbdVxNohVE1kl9ryfAJbgFAiUWH1hDpjNKCAm8f3UGjCbWUBc 4taT+WC2hICAxJI955khbFGJl4//sULYShJ7j11ngbhNU2L9Ln2IVkWJKd0P2SH2CkqcnPmE ZQKj2CwkU2chdMxC0jELSccCRpZVjKLFqcVJuelGRnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5qSWbGIHxdXDLb4Md jC+fOx5iFOBgVOLhfZe5LlqINbGsuDL3EKMEB7OSCO/tWKAQb0piZVVqUX58UWlOavEhRmkO FiVxXgu/zVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGxjbRUt1XUQrtr37vlGzYtzA8dPPvDTIrk7L7 zLKuPDze5R9RwxE5U1B2+p53ez9PP7hqV+z+eXwTHbrWLlye2Z/hExK/wIH5SfZbgRntbpON eXSfBp5YwisY/3PPqrpye847HgwB+zR1ZugsjOU7HWFSXZh1NXieqY7thlXTyrxXKxbZnegq UmIpzkg01GIuKk4EAB3s4FirAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:34:53 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+IEl0IG1heSBub3QgY2F1c2UgYSBwcm9ibGVtIGluIHRoaXMgY2FzZSwgYnV0IG15 IHBvaW50IGlzIHRoYXQgd2UgY2Fubm90IGhhdmUgYSBnZW5lcmljIHJ1bGUgbWFuZGF0aW5nIHRo ZSANCj4+IFMtRSBvZiB0aGUgbWlkLWRpYWxvZyBVUERBVEUgYW5kIHRoZSBJTlZJVEUgcmVzcG9u c2UgdG8gYmUgaWRlbnRpY2FsLg0KPg0KPiBJIG1lYW50IHRvIHNheSBjb25zaXN0ZW50IG5vdCBp ZGVudGljYWwsIGkuZS4gbm90IHRvIGNoYW5nZSBTLUUgZXhwaXJhdGlvbiBvciByZWZyZXNoZXIg b24gcmFuZG9tIGJhc2lzLg0KDQpXZSBqdXN0IG5lZWQgdG8gbWFrZSBzdXJlIHdlIGdldCB0aGUg d29yZGluZyByaWdodDogdGhlIHByb3h5IE1VU1QgTk9UIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgUy1FIGV4cGlyYXRp b24sIG9yIHRoZSByZWZyZXNoZXIsIGluIHRoZSAibWlkLUlOVklURSIgVVBEQVRFIHJlcXVlc3Qv cmVzcG9uc2UsIGJ1dCBpbiBzb21lIGNhc2VzIGl0IHdpbGwgbm90IGluZGljYXRlIHRoZSByZWZy ZXNoZXIgYXQgYWxsLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KwqANCg== From nobody Fri Sep 28 14:13:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAF012872C for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pEjNS2TR1HpU for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com (mail-pg1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BAE4127133 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id g2-v6so5285019pgu.11 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hu6BFva79W9bSKmMizjWYeIIrJTo3KQpqqBfxnHEJDY=; b=j/QdoAKGH3XdsqFjeSnKNobd7EdNn7p7NqoqhGROfSoy8PyrUNI4VzY34LBsmbt/Jf IRgYxLe4gP0bMPEQZlr9m0ZDQ/ymkrTfveJjVZla2QihrgYDi+kNg5IvE5PoLyxh4OVD t/CIt2M4zMLbaJXKmEcGxD7qneAKpv+U1kPr7+27zoE54cH+Cfj3D+QCpGGp6JyXxcMI Fdd2XS20nEdZaRIbMFhwt63hQ81ueewhnAyFGpcFsHYxlCYI9X9chzpdfXRCUDiRqFnt 8EjW+6pQMVr27QHH7P+0YyQ5WuXgPANCWBKa95xH8zwsAas8w3Rq+hwK5gAfei1uNHp2 F6TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hu6BFva79W9bSKmMizjWYeIIrJTo3KQpqqBfxnHEJDY=; b=SyhfaX3F4U/8+odQXm2Y+KOgrn6fw1rHXFOl4U9j2ZHkncxvi7VVQWgvWPzXdgZV8J q01N5PLEyx0EsnYSiBwfqA0NOr/a1j24Bd77gMvupkdS2mtyu4OAZL3t5yRlo48npWpL 8jZ9I1/H+Fz6iPWtB6l4z6AcJwuJb6zuZUENtGtHkp6aigNY0AJ56ou9i7NkourFtx5n KBTCYTVTSqJZcnyg9BpkfartmN+2kolRgIgwN4i8bJG+D4KYtiRX0/W72EA+FfxOt42T YlQqa0d3HLTlV79bOQeN8YemY7zCnj+g01t8fc3I8roWeNbg3/q0il0Z9yFbrm4N/x4a q5Gg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh/Qygzd+nKjTZMtBfech6a6vUbGFSBU60fdw4GgmxcGoX+/OHi v2Usa8fRRMtJNl8tbk9Bfg6dBlKqEwU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV605OmQQSU9bZbRU1TS3+8b0yZvqWs4/zQFZuH05w0FnpKi+ou0QpZpJ9du32W66ZTFkVBqdew== X-Received: by 2002:a62:57dc:: with SMTP id i89-v6mr358997pfj.45.1538169226600; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-f170.google.com (mail-pf1-f170.google.com. [209.85.210.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t63-v6sm9796190pfa.158.2018.09.28.14.13.45 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id p12-v6so5124084pfh.2 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:455b:: with SMTP id s88-v6mr332237pfa.203.1538169225203; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 14:13:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:13:44 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045d6d30576f4eefd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:13:49 -0000 --00000000000045d6d30576f4eefd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we cannot > have a generic rule mandating the > >> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identical. > > > > I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E > expiration or refresher on random basis. > > We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST NOT > change the S-E expiration, or the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE > request/response, but in some cases it will not indicate the refresher at > all. > There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some sort of cross-transaction correlation needs to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situation when proxy needs to refresh at least every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session timer and Bob does not. If there is no cross-transaction state correlation then: Alice Proxy Bob |(1) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | |(2) INVITE | | | SE: 600 | | |-------------->| | | | | |(3) UPDATE | | |<--------------| |(4) UPDATE | | | SE: 900 | | |<--------------| | | | | |(5) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=uas | | |-------------->| | | |(6) 200(UPD) | | | SE: 900 | | | refresher=uas | | |-------------->| | | | | |(7) 200(INV) | | |<--------------| |(8) 200(INV) | | | SE: 600 | | | refresher=uac | | |<--------------| | 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the S-E header as is to Bob 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=uas 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support session timer 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to 600;refresher=uac As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval. Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Different transactions might no even end up on the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent to the pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transaction dialog state can create a significant additional load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but dialog state is typically in database where frequent updates are not desirable. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000045d6d30576f4eefd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
=
>> It may not cause a problem in this = case, but my point is that we cannot have a generic rule mandating the
>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identic= al.
>
> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E expira= tion or refresher on random basis.

We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST N= OT change the S-E expiration, or the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE&quo= t; UPDATE request/response, but in some cases it will not indicate the refr= esher at all.

There are some serious im= plementation issues here. I think some sort of cross-transaction correlatio= n needs to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situat= ion when proxy needs to refresh at least every 15 min. Imagine your scenari= o where Alice supports session timer and Bob does not. If there is no cross= -transaction state correlation then:

Alice=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bob
=C2=A0|(1) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|(2) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|-------------->|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(3) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|
=C2=A0|(4) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|(5) 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| refresher=3Duas |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(6) 200(UPD)=C2= =A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| refresher=3Duas |<= /font>
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|-------------->|
<= div>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(7) 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2= =A0|
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<--------------|
=C2=A0|(8) 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2= =A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0| refresher=3Duac |=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|

1= . INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600
2. Proxy needs to r= efresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the S-E header as is to Bob=
3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E
4. Proxy ad= ds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE transaction state an= d it needs to refresh every 15 min
5. Alice accepts session timer= and sets S-E to 900;refresher=3Duas
6. Bob ignores S-E, since it= does not support session timer
7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE wit= hout S-E since it does not support session timer
8. Proxy looks u= p transaction state and adds S-E set to 600;refresher=3Duac

<= /div>
As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval.

Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a bi= g deal. Different transactions might no even end up on the same proxy insta= nce, especially since initial INVITE is sent to the pre-configured proxy, b= ut UPDATE is sent based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross= transaction dialog state can create a significant additional load on the p= roxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but dialog state is typi= cally in database where frequent updates are not desirable.

<= /div>
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
--00000000000045d6d30576f4eefd-- From nobody Fri Sep 28 15:44:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE658130E9A for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:44:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8jwxbLOVHEQX for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DED5130DC1 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:44:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538174677; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uXu6wCUiPLkLW9wHc6q8sE7It2WYLQnvdRpNVv6CxIY=; b=HOyHjOdqrmR5FInDyk6gJHGHOM85SG95pBrNzVlMfU96BE2J1KQ6sfn3/7MSs6kI WfpMZhOS3Tj9qn6eQV2QTYrjxLxxqNjcQzTmAizQnzMPfGaxopViLS/zdiXEPFmN SuA49Y8bl1r2sX8bL+8Pvqa3tFqZmPcnUQwhtsnaoSg=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-8e7ff700000013ad-b4-5baeaed58e33 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D3.B8.05037.5DEAEAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:44:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:44:37 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:44:36 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkD//+neAAAHFpNw Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:44:36 +0000 Message-ID: <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ie7VdeuiDfofy1ss6V/DZrFiwwFW ixkXpjJbfP2xic2BxePv+w9MHjtn3WX3WLLkJ5PHrSkFASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBkXt/Uz F8zRrJj/ehN7A+MUjS5GTg4JAROJR5P3sHYxcnEICRxllFg19wkjSEJI4BujxLNjlhCJZYwS p9+8A0pwcLAJWEh0/9MGqRERUJX4+30yE0iYWaBSon1JEkhYWKBQovHHYRaIkiKJ7qMdLCBj RASaGCU6131lB0mwAPVemt/BCmLzClhL7Hl3lhlibxebxLo/ESA2p0CgxN+jJ5hAbEYBMYnv p9aA2cwC4hK3nsxngnhAQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/1ghbCWJvceus0Dcpimxfpc+RKuixJTuh+wQ awUlTs58wjKBUWwWkqmzEDpmIemYhaRjASPLKkbR4tTipNx0I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzA CDu45bfqDsbLbxwPMQpwMCrx8OrOXxctxJpYVlyZe4hRgoNZSYT3dixQiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0 J7X4EKM0B4uSOO9D881RQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsaobsPOplusb4Q+TOC2iYlit97N x/xEpyI9P3OTevzOs1OOHue7eJCratl5znsRPx5c433FvGjrmbyINH/ZBO35a89kvLzU+kew utv/y2l21TuCn72uRBc7Led6wzhB1nfqlx9LVmdGBVzUEuWeYy5ckbysvOCv/4a/h+IlDwSd WKKtkpjIUKzEUpyRaKjFXFScCADA5wGMrAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:44:44 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+Pj4gSXQgbWF5IG5vdCBjYXVzZSBhIHByb2JsZW0gaW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlLCBidXQg bXkgcG9pbnQgaXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBjYW5ub3QgaGF2ZSBhIGdlbmVyaWMgcnVsZSBtYW5kYXRpbmcg dGhlIA0KPj4+PiBTLUUgb2YgdGhlIG1pZC1kaWFsb2cgVVBEQVRFIGFuZCB0aGUgSU5WSVRFIHJl c3BvbnNlIHRvIGJlIGlkZW50aWNhbC4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+IEkgbWVhbnQgdG8gc2F5IGNvbnNpc3Rl bnQgbm90IGlkZW50aWNhbCwgaS5lLiBub3QgdG8gY2hhbmdlIFMtRSBleHBpcmF0aW9uIG9yIHJl ZnJlc2hlciBvbiByYW5kb20gYmFzaXMuDQo+Pg0KPj4gV2UganVzdCBuZWVkIHRvIG1ha2Ugc3Vy ZSB3ZSBnZXQgdGhlIHdvcmRpbmcgcmlnaHQ6IHRoZSBwcm94eSBNVVNUIE5PVCBjaGFuZ2UgdGhl IFMtRSBleHBpcmF0aW9uLCBvciANCj4+IHRoZSByZWZyZXNoZXIsIGluIHRoZSAibWlkLUlOVklU RSIgVVBEQVRFIHJlcXVlc3QvcmVzcG9uc2UsIGJ1dCBpbiBzb21lIGNhc2VzIGl0IHdpbGwgbm90 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bGx5IGluIG1lbW9yeSBidXQgZGlhbG9nIHN0YXRlIGlzIHR5cGljYWxseSBpbiBkYXRhYmFzZSB3 aGVyZSBmcmVxdWVudCANCj4+IHVwZGF0ZXMgYXJlIG5vdCBkZXNpcmFibGUuDQoNCkZpcnN0LCB0 aGUgcHJveHkgYWRkaW5nIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgbXVzdCBiZSBzdGF0ZWZ1bC4NCg0KU2Vjb25k LCB0aGUgcHJveHkgYWRkaW5nIHNlc3Npb24gdGltZXIgU0hPVUxEIGFkZCBSZWNvcmQtUm91dGUu IFBlcmhhcHMgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIGNoYW5nZSB0aGF0IHRvIE1VU1QuIE90aGVyd2lzZSBJIHJlYWxs eSBkb24ndCBzZWUgaG93IHlvdSBpbnRlbmQgdG8gc29sdmUgdGhhdCBjYXVzZSB0aGUgY29uZnVz aW9uLi4uDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Sep 28 16:16:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED806130DC1 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:16:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z4eNci2Dg3qE for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [217.72.192.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6023130DBE for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.26.252] ([202.69.67.133]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb102 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MHGed-1g1IuV1iy3-00E8RD; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:16:45 +0200 Received: from [172.20.26.252] ([202.69.67.133]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb102 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MHGed-1g1IuV1iy3-00E8RD; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:16:45 +0200 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:16:37 +0800 Message-ID: <5ab80eab-a139-4500-b2f6-8db56898ecfa@email.android.com> X-Android-Message-ID: <5ab80eab-a139-4500-b2f6-8db56898ecfa@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: roland.jesske@web.de To: Roman Shpount Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:KLK0ohMEPBguHaa8UwTtjH6A7DO2HzOY0YSPGascR8ZHffzshS7 n1jpciSopWTLHSdI2UaGtFTOA005BQv6dRCNLJToj7dTDZ0eaHlz717MM0DOm6Uv8ux7p8Q WfA4V/porVxkTu7MEhVAo9GOlSjJ1+X8AdQ7WWWso3b6osb9Sm4IuM0gP+UVgqrCRDqzh4l 6KTbCzzWQfOK5HEXszf1g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:hT972EPiYNI=:OnKknCi3JS3QTZUAl9CgXB MpQa6JIUOlwxJllPiLTNoHNUpCCaLbbwuekT8nuRjMglMYFqBX4ZqAJdwntFI/VoIorT6GD1j DMYX93t6B1Aw63dYgJhMVLrwXepa+//iuGRkciVXq/Ic6CWulIehxm9Qnq9vzl0OrHcg7wGZQ RNcgpZkkq/3tfqAsvvBICUAKK103rZdM8rsO+pNK1IT8h2zat6vn2obVREJep67fyfdWtrQ9D 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X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 23:16:55 -0000 PGRpdiBkaXI9J2F1dG8nPkhpPGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPlNpbmNlIGluICg1KSB0aGUgcmVmcmVz aGVyIHdhcyBhbHJlYWR5IHNldC4gSXQgaXMgbm90IGFsbG93ZWQgdG8gY2hhbmdlIGl0IGluICg4 KS4mbmJzcDsgU2VlIHRhYmxlIDIgYW5kIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGV4dC4gQW5kIGFzIENocmlz dGVyIHdyb3RlIHRoZSBwcm94eSBtdXN0IGJlIHN0YWF0ZWZ1bCB3aGVuIGRvaW5nIHN1Y2ggc3R1 ZmYuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPlJlZ2FyZHM8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Um9s YW5kPC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfZXh0cmEiPjxicj48ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJn bWFpbF9xdW90ZSI+QW0gMjkuMDkuMjAxOCAwNToxMyBzY2hyaWViIFJvbWFuIFNocG91bnQgJmx0 O3JvbWFuQHRlbHVyaXguY29tJmd0Ozo8YnIgdHlwZT0iYXR0cmlidXRpb24iIC8+PGJsb2NrcXVv dGUgY2xhc3M9InF1b3RlIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjAgMCAwIC44ZXg7Ym9yZGVyLWxlZnQ6MXB4 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[209.85.215.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q25-v6sm13720690pfk.154.2018.09.28.16.23.28 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f180.google.com with SMTP id y18-v6so5496355pge.0 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6909:: with SMTP id j9-v6mr745592plk.196.1538177008153; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:23:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:23:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5ab80eab-a139-4500-b2f6-8db56898ecfa@email.android.com> References: <5ab80eab-a139-4500-b2f6-8db56898ecfa@email.android.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 19:23:27 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: roland.jesske@web.de Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c38750576f6bead" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 23:23:31 -0000 --0000000000002c38750576f6bead Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 7:16 PM, wrote: > Since in (5) the refresher was already set. It is not allowed to change it > in (8). See table 2 and the following text. And as Christer wrote the > proxy must be staateful when doing such stuff. > > I do not think you are correct here. Since INVITE and UPDATE transactions are in opposite directions, this is the same refresher. Also, what does Table 2 has to do with proxy response processing? Proxy behavior is defined in Section 8.2. Table 2 is for UAS. Finally, stateful proxy means quite a specific thing, i.e. stateful transaction processing, not dialog stateful, so this does not help. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000002c38750576f6bead Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 7:16 PM, <roland.jesske@web.de>= wrote:
Since in (5) the refresher was already set. It is not allowed to = change it in (8).=C2=A0 See table 2 and the following text. And as Christer= wrote the proxy must be staateful when doing such stuff.


I do not think you a= re correct here.

Since INVITE and UPDATE transacti= ons are in opposite directions, this is the same refresher. Also, what does= Table 2 has to do with proxy response processing? Proxy behavior is define= d in Section 8.2. Table 2 is for UAS.

Finally, sta= teful proxy means quite a specific thing, i.e. stateful transaction process= ing, not dialog stateful, so this does not help.

R= egards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

=C2=A0
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[209.85.215.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y86-v6sm10199517pfk.84.2018.09.28.16.35.17 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id i4-v6so4874486pgq.9 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:9f11:: with SMTP id g17-v6mr793638pfe.144.1538177717697; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:35:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d38b:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:35:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 19:35:16 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007706800576f6e83d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 23:35:23 -0000 --0000000000007706800576f6e83d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>>> It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we > cannot have a generic rule mandating the > >>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identical. > >>> > >>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E > expiration or refresher on random basis. > >> > >> We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST NOT > change the S-E expiration, or > >> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE request/response, but in some > cases it will not indicate the > >> refresher at all. > >> > >> There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some sort of > cross-transaction correlation needs > >> to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situation > when proxy needs to refresh at least > >> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session timer > and Bob does not. If there is no > >> cross-transaction state correlation then: > >> > >> Alice Proxy Bob > >> |(1) INVITE | | > >> | SE: 600 | | > >> |-------------->| | > >> | |(2) INVITE | > >> | | SE: 600 | > >> | |-------------->| > >> | | | > >> | |(3) UPDATE | > >> | |<--------------| > >> |(4) UPDATE | | > >> | SE: 900 | | > >> |<--------------| | > >> | | | > >> |(5) 200(UPD) | | > >> | SE: 900 | | > >> | refresher=uas | | > >> |-------------->| | > >> | |(6) 200(UPD) | > >> | | SE: 900 | > >> | | refresher=uas | > >> | |-------------->| > >> | | | > >> | |(7) 200(INV) | > >> | |<--------------| > >> |(8) 200(INV) | | > >>| SE: 600 | | > >> | refresher=uac | | > >> |<--------------| | > >> > >> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 > >> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the > S-E header as is to Bob > >> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E > >> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE > transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min > >> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=uas > >> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer > >> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support > session timer > >> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to > 600;refresher=uac > >> > >> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval. > >> > >> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Different > transactions might no even end up on > >> the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent to the > pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent > >> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transaction > dialog state can create a significant additional > >> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but > dialog state is typically in database where frequent > >> updates are not desirable. > > First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful. > Stateful means storing transaction state, not state across transactions. This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and avp ( https://opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and https://www.opensips.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPDATE transaction normally has no access to INVITE transaction state. Even transaction stateful can be a problem for HA or high scale deployment and can cause calls to fail. Converting anything except initial INVITE transaction to stateful is too high of the price to pay for session timer. In practice, it would be easier to assume that session timer is supported throughout the dialog if it was supported during initial dialog negotiation. Second, the proxy adding session timer SHOULD add Record-Route. Perhaps we > should change that to MUST. Otherwise I really don't see how you intend to > solve that cause the confusion... > Record-Route does not help here. There is no way to store changing state for INVITE transaction in Record-Route header. From implementation point of view, dealing with this issue means state for current INVITE transaction needs to go into some sort of shared DB (even if it is in-memory DB) which is accessible from all servers/processes that can handle UPDATE transactions for this dialog. In other words, every time INVITE request is received, session timer information from this request is stored in DB. Once INVITE transaction is completed, record for INVITE is removed from DB. Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB needs to be looked up if there is a current INVITE transaction for this dialog. Of cause, logic for INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be implemented as well. Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client, these rules are too complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that nobody will do that. Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using openSIPS or Kamilio configuration script, these rules are not going to useful. On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after the INVITE completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE is much simpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the problems. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000007706800576f6e83d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Chr= ister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>= wrote:
>>>> It m= ay not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we cannot have a = generic rule mandating the
>>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be= identical.
>>>
>>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-= E expiration or refresher on random basis.
>>
>> We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST= NOT change the S-E expiration, or
>> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE request/respon= se, but in some cases it will not indicate the
>> refresher at all.
>>
>> There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some so= rt of cross-transaction correlation needs
>> to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situa= tion when proxy needs to refresh at least
>> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session t= imer and Bob does not. If there is no
>> cross-transaction state correlation then:
>>
>> Alice=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proxy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bob
>>=C2=A0|(1) INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(2) = INVITE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE:= 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|----= ---------->|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(3) = UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= --------------|
>>=C2=A0|(4) UPDATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|(5) 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0| SE: 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>> | refresher=3Duas |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|-------------->|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(6) = 200(UPD)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SE:= 900=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ref= resher=3Duas |
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|----= ---------->|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|(7) = 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= --------------|
>>=C2=A0|(8) 200(INV)=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>| SE: 600=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0| refresher=3Duac |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>=C2=A0|<--------------|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>>
>> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600
>> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards= the S-E header as is to Bob
>> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E
>> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE = transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min
>> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=3Duas=
>> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer
>> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not suppor= t session timer
>> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to 600;refres= her=3Duac
>>
>> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval.
>>
>> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Diffe= rent transactions might no even end up on
>> the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent t= o the pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent
>> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transact= ion dialog state can create a significant additional
>> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory bu= t dialog state is typically in database where frequent
>> updates are not desirable.

First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful.

Stateful means storing transaction state, not = state across transactions. This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and av= p (https:/= /opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and https://www.opensi= ps.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPDATE transaction no= rmally has no access to INVITE transaction state. Even transaction stateful= can be a problem for HA or high scale deployment and can cause calls to fa= il. Converting anything except initial INVITE transaction to stateful is to= o high of the price to pay for session timer. In practice, it would be easi= er to assume that session timer is supported throughout the dialog if it wa= s supported during initial dialog negotiation.

Second, the proxy adding session = timer SHOULD add Record-Route. Perhaps we should change that to MUST. Other= wise I really don't see how you intend to solve that cause the confusio= n...

Record-Route does not help h= ere. There is no way to store changing state for INVITE transaction in Reco= rd-Route header. From implementation point of view, dealing with this issue= means state for current INVITE transaction needs to go into some sort of s= hared DB (even if it is in-memory DB) which is accessible from all servers/= processes that can handle UPDATE transactions for this dialog. In other wor= ds, every time INVITE request is received, session timer information from t= his request is stored in DB. Once INVITE transaction is completed, record f= or INVITE is removed from DB. Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB= needs to be looked up if there is a current INVITE transaction for this di= alog. Of cause, logic for INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be = implemented as well.

Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client= , these rules are too complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that no= body will do that. Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using = openSIPS or Kamilio configuration script, these rules are not going to usef= ul.

On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after the INVIT= E completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE is much si= mpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the problems.

Regard= s,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=

=C2=A0
--0000000000007706800576f6e83d-- From nobody Sat Sep 29 05:35:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F11A130E2B for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x3IYJHIS9qxG for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com (mail-pf1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47A4B130E3A for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id k19-v6so6115025pfi.1 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Mh9xoUEhiUNPRtt//lihF+vCgzKZ9DVVcaYUm5G2O0U=; b=caSC/hr+erPK3G25AuQrXZQdyulSzz8TIEdCEd6Q3kN3ZFOkac5uC1WnQaNOcWXtKB BzFlSLh/n0lFGhjel4BofHDP2SHsu6beEO5Rphx+zlb2dxG5hjSz/JG4mjzk8c15oBBh FfI2gYARR4/l7jGf2CdtQojGTUnh+3oVpwFmfG7mkU2mren7EwHerM8y+JfZewxuFiij AYPiEHoRhmVTczPw9hiV8AyfPhYxIc7fgQHA3pc+ePzv0qwd6pJBWl2n/p6nO1kSN+1X asSfXsHZLyM5zl2WENJVSjB5hPTwSRB59LwwqBc31KC15eXDPpBVcr/pqURN5VJNh0wn M4zw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Mh9xoUEhiUNPRtt//lihF+vCgzKZ9DVVcaYUm5G2O0U=; b=ZC8RUEXGplG5t/LbCwXVrGZBasSqkrdrWDWU35BZvu+KaU8iD/SIxxm1jgVKN3ROSD NvAMsuyL60GJoY8W1VnOMnQRISNwJ/VzQDU9sUMdG5iamgFNilcvaQ0RwR4XnXK5MhcE voGl6op0BgRZP8E1rIipkAHwV6RoCyxNfI/2EuwfNCowzlJU0173U4lJ9B/T0ReDhKXK lEjplD3/Fndu1DY3LiWYDXTaQRbEYXMjuwXraJrVtRiK5ACDoarUD4TK5H5BIC3xMP/0 dPISj8N631UI0XIVP4DqMr+PJ76bA4RhgE1Gg8ciQtizQbhpVehh3RSF1kj59bHyRT1L q3kQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoi+LVjl8apGVsB5EbiCNAexHs3FNzvISiKnNo63c1/iezjBxnrI gcNkRjG41raDQCz10e8jKgg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61EyEjU1hwh+ZgGCkaDacKH7kHYv2tVmpcFqT0ysX9N+vD+b5w0hf1p1npgbSj6zQtHLdVfFw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6645:: with SMTP id a66-v6mr2752048pgc.5.1538224529793; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p64-v6sm13431812pfa.47.2018.09.29.05.35.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Kyzivat , sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <986a3a46-12df-80fd-b9c0-381e4b560db3@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:35:26 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------645A563B531EE5E539577019" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180929-0, 2018/09/29), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:35:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------645A563B531EE5E539577019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Paul, It's been a while. ;-) > This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. I think that is the primary cause of some problems. A proxy's discretion is too big. UAs can not predict a behavior of a proxy. The following rules may simplify this problem, 1. If a UAC supports timer, proxy must not add SE header to the request. 2. If a UAS supports timer, proxy must neither add nor modify SE header in the response. At least these will make UAs to turn-off successfully. Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/29 1:28, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >> Hi, > > Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here! > >> It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. >> If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem, > > These all seem good to me, except comment at end. (snip) >> [scenario 9] turn-off >> 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE >> 2. no proxies add SE to the request >> 3. Bob returns 200 without SE >> >> 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >> 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior >> 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC > > I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9. > This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it > wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. > >     Thanks, >     Paul --------------645A563B531EE5E539577019 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Paul,
It's been a while. ;-)

> This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't.

I think that is the primary cause of some problems.
A proxy's discretion is too big. UAs can not predict a behavior of a proxy.

The following rules may simplify this problem,
1. If a UAC supports timer, proxy must not add SE header to the request.
2. If a UAS supports timer, proxy must neither add nor modify SE header in the response.

At least these will make UAs to turn-off successfully.

Regards,
Shinji

On 2018/09/29 1:28, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote:
Hi,

Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here!

It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences.
If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem,

These all seem good to me, except comment at end.
(snip)
[scenario 9] turn-off
1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE
2. no proxies add SE to the request
3. Bob returns 200 without SE

1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC
2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior
3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC

I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9.
This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't.

    Thanks,
    Paul

--------------645A563B531EE5E539577019-- From nobody Sat Sep 29 08:10:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1FD124BE5 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8hS11t7uIe4 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com (mail-pg1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97DB512426A for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id q19-v6so6489842pgn.10 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=Tj201Wy0uPTeYApJbAW++3u6teLBUi1eZnBE75LqdI8=; b=i8LLV5+GFsCpz1Pl+hZsGSYlmQ0uRfXKduQ4fcQ7DyLikthSEK5PWO4Idb2Vq8Fw4J nA40ppRv5hMw/6GXjnMqL7Jm+ZeKUUYaLwJ93oS2AqjWKQAlVzi7S8qyY12SQgcgVfCU 2/lehjasjyA/mk7GeRtSIKsFS99mYOzCs5V0/ooVADI3vABKeTawwr5AWwy/hyWyGFh1 ZApgMpytPGHRiTMTfVNdHbcLkFKKEDGw4WOZyr0Wgxnmmc3zUf1F85e6hK54C1Q3yvhD Cz+O4Ad3+WkryK2QGwE2aOhu9q8JIVNbm9X+uAErtTF/bgVLAfmFN0RiwgDPIWupH0wy k+yQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=Tj201Wy0uPTeYApJbAW++3u6teLBUi1eZnBE75LqdI8=; b=Yz86YzTpp1fzoT/V/Bn1iNPqvIBEKliCIefIeKj6Ra0ZGoAn2D87LekvULmZ3Xht8u prDmxE2FSawpvEfJCqVZRs5hIaMuzdkAnixFii9Q5HtanK1egjIlTXu12dFPHZviYW4T Q2JfOfYuNEZZMGM616aT7BMzzqUsSrh4HPOkAsYIyAZ5ypQsjKY1FngthYsgIh2IkDln 04YqXKEBgGTbNX0BctouZPf1X3AmxeU5Ir7b3TSzp2oAsbZ6kLHXY+kgZprTod6C8eAU /o6faOJK4OJF/gZaSwFBGW9RGfMlm31qh3FYeXelrMNEJinQmp9/2toDMqiG2P6lrdkQ 7wRA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojC9ObohZCKPH1foX3CcgQl8o+ugc0b8Gp9WMznVt1YOAwxPRYm PJhg1fI4nE2u3GwtywB80tE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60/pJ0RSUX29lEt9pBCXQCszhhlnMVkqSBYgBQCaAXnatq81jr7MHGHVWIZQmJal0aolND/zQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a504:: with SMTP id s4-v6mr3690378plq.101.1538233822119; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o20-v6sm16980275pfj.35.2018.09.29.08.10.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: OKUMURA Shinji To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> Message-ID: <7b231e6f-06c7-6eda-0102-706b4375d3d4@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 00:10:18 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180929-2, 2018/09/29), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:10:24 -0000 Hi, A proxy must insert the same timer value, and must not change the refresher "as much as possible" I like this rule. But when Bob supports timer, Bob may insert SE: 1200. That is to say that the se-value may be updated. Alice          Proxy            Bob  |(1) INVITE     |               |  | SE: 3600      |               |  |-------------->|               |  |               |(a) INVITE     |  |               | SE: 2400      |  |               |-------------->|  |               |               |  |               |(2) UPDATE     |  |               | SE: 1200      |  |               |<--------------|  |(3) UPDATE     |               |  | SE: 1200      |               |  |<--------------|               |  |               |               |  |(4) 200(UPD)   |               |  | SE: 1200      |               |  | refresher=uas |               |  |-------------->|               |  |               |(b) 200(UPD)   |  |               | SE: 1200      |  |               | refresher=uas |  |               |-------------->|  |               |               |  |               |(5) 200(INV)   |  |               | SE: 1200      |  |               |<--------------|  |(6) 200(INV)   |               |  | SE: 1200      |               |  | refresher=uac |               |  |<--------------|               | Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/28 21:34, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > Alice          Proxy            Bob >  |(1) INVITE     |               | >  | SE: 3600      |               | >  |-------------->|               | >  |               |(a) INVITE     | >  |               | SE: 2400      | >  |               |-------------->| >  |               |               | >  |               |(2) UPDATE     | >  |               |<--------------| >  |(3) UPDATE     |               | >  | SE: 2400      |               | >  |<--------------|               | >  |               |               | >  |(4) 200(UPD)   |               | >  | SE: 2400      |               | >  | refresher=uas |               | >  |-------------->|               | >  |               |(b) 200(UPD)   | >  |               | SE: 2400      | >  |               | refresher=uas | >  |               |-------------->| >  |               |               | >  |               |(5) 200(INV)   | >  |               |<--------------| >  |(6) 200(INV)   |               | >  | SE: 2400      |               | >  | refresher=uac |               | >  |<--------------|               | > >>> The success response for the UPDATE is message 4. >>> The success response for the INVITE is message 6. >>> >>> The SE header in messages 4 and 6 will be identical. >>> Is that a problem? >> This should not be a problem since there is no ambiguity about what is negotiated. > It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we cannot have a generic rule mandating the S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identical. > > Regards, > > Christer > >   > From nobody Sat Sep 29 09:04:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C743B130E22 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIzmJNFti2rf for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2CB0124BE5 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id m77-v6so6294596pfi.8 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=NNOUFGjoxn+0XhKRFQiSii5dIplDdcQ9ssT/qKL7dEI=; b=SLHuTi6uZRG2qpusyu1gaWAlCz+KSKiyzhHDIyODUf2MuUOxy/6L7aZtVgj/+jHP8g lMUR2+Zn/22Sl+UEpvouVXXFz4o7zjBec/2B44U0LGo2rdpzhksTduFe9K5ytN3LuOIK 47k7PFWbX44Y7PS3yr+vfDIim24GJ7BWhltrPA+Ksk8Ix1ru1L/h0mGDY+3ItKPUEKPS PK2o+Hqlk5c5tFvfsMeW5GxzJSehZtuJaPZ/AhdAatx2IbnUBmXV8VbT49E4zOfO12d6 5yicOIsKe8fnSjo6aw57SZpqhBCfs3aSumQ9gOg8p4WBL6UuzqEZGvCkYD/kKWQQ7ydi 6R7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=NNOUFGjoxn+0XhKRFQiSii5dIplDdcQ9ssT/qKL7dEI=; b=jO5DGDGJUY5I2uFqW3IZB0ZR7PQu/YUcWR+iKRrJoyeoixFtz6n8+LwAm7OtGfpY6P IIy0kFakoLzFwEbxt1n267YXctEes02E2M3sErbviEVxrZN7iYjmZMWXyqAR/6Ysg6YJ 0F09ETGVhLCqK+A0dOZKPhQ2tDJZgwJM5nFk2i90sVwVC5x6jXRwmDv3pelyuzfsJ/qw g6ML36d2gWPeyu13muoa4DmozeJGk6HHu9fBzKiQXXvMaIxLdg0PmW0hV9rc6Q2Zs07Z b9EML2QtYSEeIvwJz6Mc9MjqgLwbUXXu9sgjtpWv3odIuOsXl+b0ykfNmxkxiMdEnQnk DN9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiaY+P0uJ8wiaZXO2Fmr6vy1XM0aJbAx5cfop8YkTaFUkHY/VlG Nxda0v9BJbCSAC/9FGD8Y+E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60/4xANBUBKUxEgQi/dHerqPx85hJ8ZBN6T7nPoid2DeS0KkIsqhScL4QuHVqcTQXRaANtMCg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2348:: with SMTP id u8-v6mr3471696pgm.122.1538237042162; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.64] (61.245.63.35.er.eaccess.ne.jp. [61.245.63.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h88-v6sm23390527pfa.184.2018.09.29.09.04.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT) To: "sipcore@ietf.org" Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg , Paul Kyzivat References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> From: OKUMURA Shinji Message-ID: <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 01:03:58 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180929-2, 2018/09/29), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:04:06 -0000 Hi all, First of all I think that it is necessary to check our goal, do you accept inconsistencies for SE-state between INVITE transaction and UPDATE one. If you accept them, the proxy should be only transaction-stateful and record-route is unnecessary. Otherwise the proxy should be dialog-stateful(call-stateful) and record-route is necessary. In other words SE-state must be one of a dialog state. And maybe we need rules that make an UPDATE request not to intersect a success response for INVITE. Paul seems to be the former, Christer seems to be the latter. I am the latter. Which one are you, Roman? Regards, Shinji On 2018/09/29 8:35, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>>>>> It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we >> cannot have a generic rule mandating the >>>>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identical. >>>>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E >> expiration or refresher on random basis. >>>> We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST NOT >> change the S-E expiration, or >>>> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE request/response, but in some >> cases it will not indicate the >>>> refresher at all. >>>> >>>> There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some sort of >> cross-transaction correlation needs >>>> to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situation >> when proxy needs to refresh at least >>>> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session timer >> and Bob does not. If there is no >>>> cross-transaction state correlation then: >>>> >>>> Alice Proxy Bob >>>> |(1) INVITE | | >>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>> |-------------->| | >>>> | |(2) INVITE | >>>> | | SE: 600 | >>>> | |-------------->| >>>> | | | >>>> | |(3) UPDATE | >>>> | |<--------------| >>>> |(4) UPDATE | | >>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>> |<--------------| | >>>> | | | >>>> |(5) 200(UPD) | | >>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>> | refresher=uas | | >>>> |-------------->| | >>>> | |(6) 200(UPD) | >>>> | | SE: 900 | >>>> | | refresher=uas | >>>> | |-------------->| >>>> | | | >>>> | |(7) 200(INV) | >>>> | |<--------------| >>>> |(8) 200(INV) | | >>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>> | refresher=uac | | >>>> |<--------------| | >>>> >>>> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 >>>> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the >> S-E header as is to Bob >>>> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E >>>> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE >> transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min >>>> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=uas >>>> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer >>>> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support >> session timer >>>> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to >> 600;refresher=uac >>>> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval. >>>> >>>> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Different >> transactions might no even end up on >>>> the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent to the >> pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent >>>> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transaction >> dialog state can create a significant additional >>>> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but >> dialog state is typically in database where frequent >>>> updates are not desirable. >> First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful. >> > Stateful means storing transaction state, not state across transactions. > This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and avp ( > https://opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and > https://www.opensips.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPDATE > transaction normally has no access to INVITE transaction state. Even > transaction stateful can be a problem for HA or high scale deployment and > can cause calls to fail. Converting anything except initial INVITE > transaction to stateful is too high of the price to pay for session timer. > In practice, it would be easier to assume that session timer is supported > throughout the dialog if it was supported during initial dialog negotiation. > > Second, the proxy adding session timer SHOULD add Record-Route. Perhaps we >> should change that to MUST. Otherwise I really don't see how you intend to >> solve that cause the confusion... >> > Record-Route does not help here. There is no way to store changing state > for INVITE transaction in Record-Route header. From implementation point of > view, dealing with this issue means state for current INVITE transaction > needs to go into some sort of shared DB (even if it is in-memory DB) which > is accessible from all servers/processes that can handle UPDATE > transactions for this dialog. In other words, every time INVITE request is > received, session timer information from this request is stored in DB. Once > INVITE transaction is completed, record for INVITE is removed from DB. > Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB needs to be looked up if > there is a current INVITE transaction for this dialog. Of cause, logic for > INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be implemented as well. > > Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client, these rules are too > complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that nobody will do that. > Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using openSIPS or Kamilio > configuration script, these rules are not going to useful. > > On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after the INVITE > completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE is much > simpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the problems. > > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > From nobody Sat Sep 29 10:33:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47E8128D0C for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fe3pCvRrZxD7 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A8C1286D9 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074411-df1ff70000000b07-01-5bafb776b3e8 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 7D.1F.02823.677BFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8THXeMg014155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:33:41 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , sipcore@ietf.org Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <870438cd-8d0c-b6fa-30bb-d221c2e52422@alum.mit.edu> <986a3a46-12df-80fd-b9c0-381e4b560db3@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:33:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <986a3a46-12df-80fd-b9c0-381e4b560db3@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrEKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqFu2fX20wZ4FwhYXZh5mtFjSv4bN YsaFqcwWX39sYnNg8fj19Sqbx85Zd9k9liz5yeRxa0pBAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8a/i99Y Co4LV5xbs569gbGHv4uRk0NCwETi+N8XTF2MXBxCAjuYJCZ+PscOkhASeMgkcbHLrouRg0NY oFCi4YEQSFhEwEZi3qX5bCBhZoEkiS89rBCtZ5klvs08wARSwyagJTHn0H8WEJtXwF5i6dRG sJEsAqoSc/7NA6sRFUiT+Nu5hBGiRlDi5MwnYPWcArYS09bNAoszC5hJzNv8kBnCFpe49WQ+ E4QtL9G8dTbzBEaBWUjaZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsY5RJzSnN1cxMzc4pTk3WLkxPz8lKLdE31 cjNL9FJTSjcxQoJccAfjjJNyhxgFOBiVeHhn2K+LFmJNLCuuzD3EKMnBpCTK6zgdKMSXlJ9S mZFYnBFfVJqTWnyIUYKDWUmEN3jr+mgh3pTEyqrUonyYlDQHi5I4L7PJ3ighgfTEktTs1NSC 1CKYrAwHh5IEr/I2oEbBotT01Iq0zJwShDQTByfIcB6g4fYgNbzFBYm5xZnpEPlTjJYce742 zWDm2HamE0i2Pb0+g1mIJS8/L1VKnPcVyDUCIA0ZpXlwM2FJ6xWjONCLwrylIGN5gAkPbuor oIVMQAtFDqwBWViSiJCSamCUY2Xx7Fv78sNkt9gdu41nsER9WHBPZn4yVz3LloNHbmrUmTZ2 tZY/YOXett/2YZn5hkjJS6ntn1vFJus2q24MvtEjPiGxaZJgPtc/1rZiq/yti65pvZa4a/vd zuvjS5sIBWUlV3PHpzKbL79x9xXI8Yypig7ve3v2hMCMfVmP6840nLP691mJpTgj0VCLuag4 EQAX47exNQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:33:46 -0000 Hi Shinji, On 9/29/18 8:35 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi Paul, > It's been a while. ;-) > > > This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it > wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. > > I think that is the primary cause of some problems. > A proxy's discretion is too big. UAs can not predict a behavior of a proxy. > > The following rules may simplify this problem, > 1. If a UAC supports timer, proxy must not add SE header to the request. > 2. If a UAS supports timer, proxy must neither add nor modify SE header > in the response. > > At least these will make UAs to turn-off successfully. I think this is backward. The prime motivation for timers is so that proxies have a way to monitor the liveness of a session. The reason for UAs to support timers is to render assistance to proxies that need this to manage state that they hold about sessions. The UA doesn't know in advance if there are any proxies on the path that need this, so it should typically only indicate support, and wait for proxies to express a desire. Remember that UAs that desire to periodically test the liveness of a session don't need session timer to do so. They can send an in dialog request at any time. I don't understand why a UA would request a session timer on its own. OTOH, it *might* want to specify Min-S-E initially to avoid being asked to do too much work. BTW, I think having some discussion like this in the document would be very helpful. Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/09/29 1:28, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 9/28/18 5:05 AM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: >>> Hi, >> >> Hi Shinji! I don't hear from you very often. Glad to see you here! >> >>> It's about time we check up concrete protocol sequences. >>> If you notice any irregular behavior, please comment on the problem, >> >> These all seem good to me, except comment at end. > (snip) >>> [scenario 9] turn-off >>> 1. Alice sends UPDATE INVITE without SE >>> 2. no proxies add SE to the request >>> 3. Bob returns 200 without SE >>> >>> 1: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >>> 2: Require rules to specify proxy behavior >>> 3: Alice's behavior is consistent with RFC >> >> I don't understand what you mean or are asking about 2 in scenario 9. >> This is just like an initial request - the proxy MAY insert S-E if it >> wants a timer, or leave it out if it doesn't. >> >>     Thanks, >>     Paul > From nobody Sat Sep 29 10:37:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5B0130DCB for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:37:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uj2zWBh_pEv8 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2551286D9 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-1bfff70000000c6c-2e-5bafb85f09ab Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id A7.7F.03180.F58BFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8THbXSO014389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:37:34 -0400 To: OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Cc: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:37:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqBu/Y320wcyXAhYXZh5mtFjSv4bN YsaFqcwWX39sYnNg8fj19Sqbx85Zd9k9liz5yeRxa0pBAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV0b3BO+C x+YVH048Y21gPKHZxcjJISFgInGl5xIbiC0ksINJ4uDqkC5GLiD7IZPEl77vTF2MHBzCAoUS DQ+EQGpEBKIkNjw7wAwSZhZIkvjSwwrRuo1dYv+FGhCbTUBLYs6h/ywgNq+AvcSt3ZvBalgE VCXat21jBLFFBdIk/nYuYYSoEZQ4OfMJWD2ngK3E1j097CA2s4CZxLzND5khbHGJW0/mM0HY 8hLb385hnsAoMAtJ+ywkLbOQtMxC0rKAkWUVo1xiTmmubm5iZk5xarJucXJiXl5qka6ZXm5m iV5qSukmRkiAC+1gXH9S7hCjAAejEg/vDPt10UKsiWXFlbmHGCU5mJREeR2nA4X4kvJTKjMS izPii0pzUosPMUpwMCuJ8AZvXR8txJuSWFmVWpQPk5LmYFES52U22RslJJCeWJKanZpakFoE k5Xh4FCS4D27HahRsCg1PbUiLTOnBCHNxMEJMpwHaHguSA1vcUFibnFmOkT+FKM9x56vTTOY Obad6QSSbU+vA8kOECnEkpeflyolzisP0iYA0pZRmgc3GZa8XjGKAz0qzLsIpIoHmPjgZr8C WssEtFbkwBqQtSWJCCmpBkbmo+wx+d9kl4ju6VduiNsl4GZmvvjv9XcbT6itzpm7I7o8sLjk /cJnC5Od8+dqpC9mTmdRPXRh2+aee2nHlF1j5NUrnsce8NeRdlugMHtL5Mm2q64TaysesQcf dD5xPJPlkfMxrjkTlNdycL/coLBtzznOT3//an93P3z1jpDFJ9FrKnrqC78osRRnJBpqMRcV JwIAy8Lo4DkDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:37:40 -0000 On 9/29/18 12:03 PM, OKUMURA Shinji wrote: > Hi all, > > First of all I think that it is necessary to check our goal, do you > accept inconsistencies for SE-state between INVITE transaction and > UPDATE one. > > If you accept them, the proxy should be only transaction-stateful and > record-route is unnecessary. > Otherwise the proxy should be dialog-stateful(call-stateful) and > record-route is necessary. > In other words SE-state must be one of a dialog state. > And maybe we need rules that make an UPDATE request not to intersect a > success response for INVITE. > > Paul seems to be the former, Christer seems to be the latter. > I am the latter. Which one are you, Roman? ISTM that the likely reason why a proxy wants a session timer is because it is session-stateful, and needs a way to know when it can release the session state. If it isn't session stateful then it can ignore all of this. Can you think of a reason why a proxy that isn't session stateful would want a session timer? Thanks, Paul > Regards, > Shinji > > On 2018/09/29 8:35, Roman Shpount wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Christer Holmberg < >> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>> It may not cause a problem in this case, but my point is that we >>> cannot have a generic rule mandating the >>>>>>> S-E of the mid-dialog UPDATE and the INVITE response to be identical. >>>>>> I meant to say consistent not identical, i.e. not to change S-E >>> expiration or refresher on random basis. >>>>> We just need to make sure we get the wording right: the proxy MUST NOT >>> change the S-E expiration, or >>>>> the refresher, in the "mid-INVITE" UPDATE request/response, but in some >>> cases it will not indicate the >>>>> refresher at all. >>>>> >>>>> There are some serious implementation issues here. I think some sort of >>> cross-transaction correlation needs >>>>> to occur for session timer to work consistently. Imagine the situation >>> when proxy needs to refresh at least >>>>> every 15 min. Imagine your scenario where Alice supports session timer >>> and Bob does not. If there is no >>>>> cross-transaction state correlation then: >>>>> >>>>> Alice Proxy Bob >>>>> |(1) INVITE | | >>>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>>> |-------------->| | >>>>> | |(2) INVITE | >>>>> | | SE: 600 | >>>>> | |-------------->| >>>>> | | | >>>>> | |(3) UPDATE | >>>>> | |<--------------| >>>>> |(4) UPDATE | | >>>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>>> |<--------------| | >>>>> | | | >>>>> |(5) 200(UPD) | | >>>>> | SE: 900 | | >>>>> | refresher=uas | | >>>>> |-------------->| | >>>>> | |(6) 200(UPD) | >>>>> | | SE: 900 | >>>>> | | refresher=uas | >>>>> | |-------------->| >>>>> | | | >>>>> | |(7) 200(INV) | >>>>> | |<--------------| >>>>> |(8) 200(INV) | | >>>>> | SE: 600 | | >>>>> | refresher=uac | | >>>>> |<--------------| | >>>>> >>>>> 1. INVITE is sent by Alice with S-E set to 600 >>>>> 2. Proxy needs to refresh every 900, since 600 is less it forwards the >>> S-E header as is to Bob >>>>> 3. UPDATE is received from Bob with no S-E >>>>> 4. Proxy adds S-E set to 900, since it does not know about INVITE >>> transaction state and it needs to refresh every 15 min >>>>> 5. Alice accepts session timer and sets S-E to 900;refresher=uas >>>>> 6. Bob ignores S-E, since it does not support session timer >>>>> 7. Bob sends 200 Ok to INVITE without S-E since it does not support >>> session timer >>>>> 8. Proxy looks up transaction state and adds S-E set to >>> 600;refresher=uac >>>>> As a result Alice is confused about the S-E refresh interval. >>>>> >>>>> Sharing cross transaction state for proxy can be a big deal. Different >>> transactions might no even end up on >>>>> the same proxy instance, especially since initial INVITE is sent to the >>> pre-configured proxy, but UPDATE is sent >>>>> based on dialog route set. Furthermore, support for cross transaction >>> dialog state can create a significant additional >>>>> load on the proxy, since transaction state is usually in memory but >>> dialog state is typically in database where frequent >>>>> updates are not desirable. >>> First, the proxy adding session timer must be stateful. >>> >> Stateful means storing transaction state, not state across transactions. >> This is something like OpenSIPS tm module and avp ( >> https://opensips.org/html/docs/modules/2.4.x/tm.html and >> https://www.opensips.org/Documentation/Script-CoreVar-2-4#varavps). UPDATE >> transaction normally has no access to INVITE transaction state. Even >> transaction stateful can be a problem for HA or high scale deployment and >> can cause calls to fail. Converting anything except initial INVITE >> transaction to stateful is too high of the price to pay for session timer. >> In practice, it would be easier to assume that session timer is supported >> throughout the dialog if it was supported during initial dialog negotiation. >> >> Second, the proxy adding session timer SHOULD add Record-Route. Perhaps we >>> should change that to MUST. Otherwise I really don't see how you intend to >>> solve that cause the confusion... >>> >> Record-Route does not help here. There is no way to store changing state >> for INVITE transaction in Record-Route header. From implementation point of >> view, dealing with this issue means state for current INVITE transaction >> needs to go into some sort of shared DB (even if it is in-memory DB) which >> is accessible from all servers/processes that can handle UPDATE >> transactions for this dialog. In other words, every time INVITE request is >> received, session timer information from this request is stored in DB. Once >> INVITE transaction is completed, record for INVITE is removed from DB. >> Every time UPDATE is message is processed, DB needs to be looked up if >> there is a current INVITE transaction for this dialog. Of cause, logic for >> INVITE collisions and race conditions need to be implemented as well. >> >> Reality is unless this can be resolved on the client, these rules are too >> complicated to be implemented on the proxy so that nobody will do that. >> Unless there is a way to implement proposed rules using openSIPS or Kamilio >> configuration script, these rules are not going to useful. >> >> On the other hand, asking Alice to do one more UPDATE after the INVITE >> completion if there were any UPDATE transactions during INVITE is much >> simpler for all involved and unambiguosly resolves all the problems. >> >> Regards, >> _____________ >> Roman Shpount >> > > From nobody Sat Sep 29 10:48:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2311130DCB for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:48:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wmlj8cvO7oYi for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8A1130E48 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074413-13dff70000000b2e-a3-5bafbb078259 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id EA.3E.02862.70BBFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8THmrof014912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:48:54 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:48:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqMu+e320wZ058hYXZh5mtPj6YxOb A5PHr69X2TyWLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJWx/nM/S8F19ooFdw6wNTD+Yu1i5OSQEDCR uLZ+JpDNxSEksINJonHuQyjnIZNEz/u7jCBVwgIWEo2np4F1iAikSfRM7GeHKFrOKLHy2D82 kASbgJbEnEP/WUBsXgF7ieMH3jN3MXJwsAioSsycLAwSFgXq/du5hBGiRFDi5MwnYOWcAjYS vTd+gI1hFjCTmLf5ITOELS5x68l8JghbXmL72znMExj5ZyFpn4WkZRaSlllIWhYwsqxilEvM Kc3VzU3MzClOTdYtTk7My0st0jXXy80s0UtNKd3ECAlV4R2Mu07KHWIU4GBU4uF1sF0XLcSa WFZcmXuIUZKDSUmU13E6UIgvKT+lMiOxOCO+qDQntfgQowQHs5IIb/DW9dFCvCmJlVWpRfkw KWkOFiVxXmaTvVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWRkODiUJ3v87gRoFi1LTUyvSMnNKENJMHJwgw3mA htvtAhleXJCYW5yZDpE/xWjMsedr0wxmjran12cwC7Hk5eelSonz7gEZJwBSmlGaBzcNlm5e MYoDPSfMewCkigeYquDmvQJaxQS0SuTAGpBVJYkIKakGxoalN83/zEpScXJSe5b5SfM1z9pt HwtCug2XOR3u8P8XcTTdda6e8QMNrqY99mbCb4+pbfv23+uEeMmJ0AcWc1zv5wcvifs3/W17 0BbvpCUhlQILDonv8Erfejor80RGjz+r9o7iYsc3560NzyQdZ5p5f0VrWdDJqykJKxlf7uK1 ODWtuNvvjhJLcUaioRZzUXEiAKIiMsgSAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:48:58 -0000 On 9/28/18 4:31 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >> The new changes seem workable. >> >> There is one case that I think is not currently covered: when a UA that requires push support >> is the recipient of a dialog establishing request. >> It doesn't appear that the purk mechanism covers this case. > > The second paragraph of section 6.2.2 describes the proxy behaviour for that case. Maybe I am not understanding, but I don't think this covers my case. I think 6.2.2 is talking about the case where a UA sends a request through the push proxy that supports it. I'm talking about the request coming the other way. For instance: 1) Alice registers with her registrar and sets up all the push mechanism 2) Bob sends an INVITE to Alice. 3) Alice receives the INVITE, and decides it is a case where it might go to sleep mid-session and will need push notifications to wake up. 4) What does Alice to do get that set up ??? Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Sep 29 11:23:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F41130E30 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7iVoUMmNPcJ7 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A9D31286D9 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:22:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538245377; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ibTHjzFpITOHfSjDqdRleErTz0l2n17cVrvWXSdQCXo=; b=MNQAhcuB2zF912V8K5DGSy21/aUb3a5diqbzkJlgEArACpqJbJCqW/lJvO6HnaOX iZyeOn57g3B66ggat9cn1QrxCIwHNQhOvyzRGU7jD74PzfuIwaBiFHopD+di3DtG rXXku9oE2rOV5UtG21Md0FFsgYSR2HhfbIR9JoyK2Is=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-20bff700000055ff-6c-5bafc3014174 Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1C.FE.22015.103CFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:22:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:22:56 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:22:56 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) Thread-Index: AQHUVX2hakN5/OdJyUqIZBP0YKo5VKUFpyiAgACA6ZCAAUTLgIAAKhMw Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:22:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uS7j4fXRBjs3Clms2HCA1eLrj01s Dkwef99/YPJYsuQnUwBTFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAldG96eXjAUNehVXfuY1MF7R6WLk5JAQMJHY +ryPsYuRi0NI4CijxP7t+1ghnG+MEmsebGGHcJYxSpxu38bcxcjBwSZgIdH9TxukW0QgUOLq kgnMILYwUHjSoUZGkBIRAUuJJT8yIErcJNoOHmAEsVkEVCV+75zFAmLzClhLbH37hBli/F1G iUkLW8CKOAUcJNbcXwBWxCggJvH91BomEJtZQFzi1pP5TBBXC0gs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rhK0k sffYdRaQG5gFkiXaf9lD7BKUODnzCcsERpFZSCbNQqiahaQKIqwpsX6XPkS1osSU7ofsELaG ROucuezI4gsY2VcxihanFhfnphsZ66UWZSYXF+fn6eWllmxiBEbUwS2/dXcwrn7teIhRgINR iYf38Pr10UKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEeLfuAwrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLn1Vu1J0pI ID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmy8TBKdXA2ND0cuvNX3lbTuXM/pN87bqzd5RC0LWnB5bNbA168iQ272w0 /8JKkewX5qe+G7oWOfaKzoub2LV8z9cYFeWPnb+WfJHzLj3nWPj7PLf/waAVTNYO77K5Ot72 fFSZt3KrvggnQ5/GadsvnVUntvtb3ah465u9Q9Jz9dP2GtkP11cv2TzJYv7HPUosxRmJhlrM RcWJACRbAoqkAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:23:03 -0000 --_000_3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538245656; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=djGMytvv8TP2EGlX03lpD3r72HFJkZjRFSjZ1uJi8Yc=; b=XLOMOGz1dTK8enGzkoHQ3dSC2OTJPsFunx4eanUjp5Ce5+FUI/kUnRpoaV7AhNTc NjtWPPAEZh+uMIDHCsoDTuwm6bvSmIzi5S25G1vVZsFffvHINKWdfgsx2HQyOwGO yAHVX5aDA8OLnlaZvWhOOKDdNQ29+C/V6hFPiOvREhA=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-fe1ff700000055da-45-5bafc41821ba Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.114]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 41.75.21978.814CFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:27:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:27:35 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:27:35 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkD//+neAAAHFpNw///u1wCAARQ9AIAAGiaA///RFRA= Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:27:35 +0000 Message-ID: <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprFIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ka7EkfXRBmcWclks6V/DZrFiwwFW ixkXpjJbfP2xic2BxePv+w9MHjtn3WX3WLLkJ5PHrSkFASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBkr9/1i KfjiV/Hz82PmBsYPPl2MnBwSAiYSqz9sZ+9i5OIQEjjKKLH3VgMThPONUWLznL2MIFVCAssY Ja4s8u1i5OBgE7CQ6P6nDRIWEaiUeLj1GBuIzSygKrHg3h2wcmGBQonGH4dZIGqKJLqPdrCA zBQRmMcosWzBT2aQBAtQw48H38AaeAWsJd6umsUGsfgNu8StU79ZQZZxCjhI3HhSDVLDKCAm 8f3UGiaIZeISt57MZ4L4QEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWwlib3HrrOAjGEW0JRYv0sfolVRYkr3 Q3aItYISJ2c+YZnAKDYLydRZCB2zkHTMQtKxgJFlFaNocWpxUm66kZFealFmcnFxfp5eXmrJ JkZgjB3c8ttgB+PL546HGAU4GJV4eE02rI8WYk0sK67MPcQowcGsJMK7dR9QiDclsbIqtSg/ vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uSOK+F3+YoIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA2PaIRnnjwcP/TX5eMvrw4Ej xwVrjTOvJl06emhRus4bp2t3k2aUHlRVPpD+VjfGZsP61uqum0WfzM78DXQNN9oZOd+icu/U aWoHHN0Czv2SWsV+Qy9n0ZNNLrorU+aad2+c3Vb7zez+bC/t8EuXp8vtE3CftNHy25Kvc9wj dlfLz/p57sb2hNvRSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAWve8/a0CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:27:40 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+IEZpcnN0IG9mIGFsbCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIGNo ZWNrIG91ciBnb2FsLCBkbyB5b3UgDQo+PiBhY2NlcHQgaW5jb25zaXN0ZW5jaWVzIGZvciBTRS1z dGF0ZSBiZXR3ZWVuIElOVklURSB0cmFuc2FjdGlvbiBhbmQgDQo+PiBVUERBVEUgb25lLg0KPj4g DQo+PiBJZiB5b3UgYWNjZXB0IHRoZW0sIHRoZSBwcm94eSBzaG91bGQgYmUgb25seSB0cmFuc2Fj dGlvbi1zdGF0ZWZ1bCBhbmQgDQo+PiByZWNvcmQtcm91dGUgaXMgdW5uZWNlc3NhcnkuDQo+PiBP dGhlcndpc2UgdGhlIHByb3h5IHNob3VsZCBiZSBkaWFsb2ctc3RhdGVmdWwoY2FsbC1zdGF0ZWZ1 bCkgYW5kIA0KPj4gcmVjb3JkLXJvdXRlIGlzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeS4NCj4+IEluIG90aGVyIHdvcmRz IFNFLXN0YXRlIG11c3QgYmUgb25lIG9mIGEgZGlhbG9nIHN0YXRlLg0KPj4gQW5kIG1heWJlIHdl IG5lZWQgcnVsZXMgdGhhdCBtYWtlIGFuIFVQREFURSByZXF1ZXN0IG5vdCB0byBpbnRlcnNlY3Qg 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aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGFueSBVUERBVEUgdHJhbnNhY3Rpb25zIGR1cmluZyBJTlZJVEUgDQo+PiBpcyBt dWNoIHNpbXBsZXIgZm9yIGFsbCBpbnZvbHZlZCBhbmQgdW5hbWJpZ3Vvc2x5IHJlc29sdmVzIGFs bCB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbXMuDQo+Pg0KPj4gUmVnYXJkcywNCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IFJv bWFuIFNocG91bnQNCj4+DQo+IA0KPiANCg0K From nobody Sat Sep 29 12:13:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC531130E48 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:13:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Wea7JLBtsYH for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.7.68.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB01128CE4 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:13:03 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440e-1b1ff70000000b1d-fc-5bafcebc0f90 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 8D.8B.02845.CBECFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8TJCw9r019122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:12:59 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" Cc: Roman Shpount References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:12:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprJKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLv33PpogwvPDSwuzDzMaLGkfw2b xYwLU5ktvv7YxObA4vHr61U2j52z7rJ7LFnyk8nj1pSCAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroyvbevZ CnZwVCx90sDSwHifrYuRk0NCwERie/cyxi5GLg4hgR1MEj3nZkE5D5kkHr16zt7FyMEhLFAo 0fBACCQuIjCdUaJxyh1GkG5mAVWJ6WfamSEarrNLnJ7cyQ6SYBPQkphz6D8LiM0rYC+xb8M5 VhCbBajh3cuVYHFRgTSJv51LGCFqBCVOznwCFucUsJGY/6GLCWKBmcS8zQ+ZIWxxiVtP5kPF 5SW2v53DPIFRYBaS9llIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRrnEnNJc3dzEzJzi1GTd4uTEvLzUIl1jvdzM Er3UlNJNjJBQ59vB2L5e5hCjAAejEg/viiPro4VYE8uKK3MPMUpyMCmJ8jpOXxctxJeUn1KZ kVicEV9UmpNafIhRgoNZSYR36z6gct6UxMqq1KJ8mJQ0B4uSOC+byd4oIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQi mKwMB4eSBO/Ds0CNgkWp6akVaZk5JQhpJg5OkOE8QMN3g9TwFhck5hZnpkPkTzHqcuz52jSD WYglLz8vVUqcdzpIkQBIUUZpHtwcWIp6xSgO9JYw71+QKh5geoOb9ApoCRPQEpEDa0CWlCQi pKQaGC2Vr3rNM1nqWrJ7Vs5saQueXP8JTdtDF1s1RniLNc64nzg1RDzxifoT98b78ndnT6+e XOGVf+cfS9W8O2xVti0Xxa9ePd98OLw6oOGc/bxlj/oMLl7Nk1NjfKJ16b/bVUXf/PO9Up8v 3P5Q5OLF9ztoava1VRffnnx36ICmf7z3y9t6d1n+xiuxFGckGmoxFxUnAgAXrPyyLAMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:13:05 -0000 On 9/29/18 2:27 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: >> Can you think of a reason why a proxy that isn't session stateful would want a session timer? > > Section 8 of RFC 4028 says: > > "Stateless proxies MUST NOT attempt to request session timers." > > Also, if you read the Introduction etc, it only talks about stateful proxies. IIUC, when used without qualification, "stateful proxy" means *transaction stateful*. And indeed it isn't possible to do the proxy role for RFC4028 without being transaction stateful. That is still true to handle the nested UPDATE-within-INVITE cases in the ways we have been discussing. The necessary state is part of the INVITE transaction, but then the UPDATE transaction needs access to it. It doesn't require longer lived session-state. But I'm suggesting that unless a proxy is session-stateful then there probably is no reason for it to want to mess with session timers. I'm interested in hearing of well motivated use cases for UAs and non-session-stateful proxies to want a session timer. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Sep 29 12:22:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E4A130E48 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WGS-KLnJdtB0 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EC1D126CB6 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538248942; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mKjKXqZFmM7FhihkDVQQw7pm+oHWPbljWzv/7fP5AYE=; b=TGbn5Uph60mMjlMJeQb+d2/zUEwb1gB3jE9FWMRLkPkyNa6a09PAWnJQ/qDjTLv8 GxtbVAOmQjvDHKJYySyxIe063Z8f+7W6IT9JcVSRnb4VRgAtRXzW9RRNzW3zv8Bh LdidkU/pLI9hgU7/ySCuFClQOCQS6YaLgXilSCy9smY=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-2c-5bafd0eea8d7 Received: from ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.117]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F7.E2.22015.EE0DFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:22:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:22:22 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:22:22 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , "sipcore@ietf.org" CC: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkD//+neAAAHFpNw///u1wCAARQ9AIAAGiaA///RFRCAAEmUAP//3DXA Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:22:22 +0000 Message-ID: <536733cee4b0436fa7d4a6c00a209f54@ericsson.com> References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7qe67C+ujDaZt0rFY0r+GzWLFhgOs FjMuTGW2+PpjE5sDi8ff9x+YPHbOusvusWTJTyaPW1MKAliiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDI27FjI XrCIq+LVdK4GxgauLkZODgkBE4n5D3qZQGwhgaOMEo9WlnQxcgHZ3xgl7q48wgaRWMYo8Xe2 ZBcjBwebgIVE9z9tkLCIQKXEw63HwEqYBVQlFty7wwhiCwsUSjT+OMwCUVMk0X20gwVkpojA KkaJ748/gSVYgBr+3j3KDmLzClhL3J7QzAyxuJdDYsuu1WAJTgEHiYWd08CuYxQQk/h+ag0T xDZxiVtP5jNBfCAgsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/rBC2ksTeY9dZQI5mFtCUWL9LH6JVUWJK90OovYIS J2c+YZnAKDYLydRZCB2zkHTMQtKxgJFlFaNocWpxcW66kbFealFmcnFxfp5eXmrJJkZghB3c 8lt3B+Pq146HGAU4GJV4eF8eWR8txJpYVlyZe4hRgoNZSYR36z6gEG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrx IUZpDhYlcV69VXuihATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYysrh2V0scEVO9PPhdmuKJ9u2dkWY4j 898Fs+b/YNu/QmuWk5FDfYVV5GbJJ1ZS2ee512swSm/6ejSm+qCNqEHM5SrzRT1nGZdWf5zz QVqrQnI6Z1an6+8qtWrH2BCWaIOqrPtLXpTM5dohUOh8MVSEPfpks8uGfXeXWlxY+nCm/ONz xbkia5VYijMSDbWYi4oTAa4UooesAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:22:26 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+PiBDYW4geW91IHRoaW5rIG9mIGEgcmVhc29uIHdoeSBhIHByb3h5IHRoYXQgaXNu J3Qgc2Vzc2lvbiBzdGF0ZWZ1bCB3b3VsZCB3YW50IGEgc2Vzc2lvbiB0aW1lcj8NCj4+IA0KPj4g U2VjdGlvbiA4IG9mIFJGQyA0MDI4IHNheXM6DQo+PiANCj4+ICJTdGF0ZWxlc3MgcHJveGllcyBN VVNUIE5PVCBhdHRlbXB0IHRvIHJlcXVlc3Qgc2Vzc2lvbiB0aW1lcnMuIg0KPj4gDQo+PiBBbHNv LCBpZiB5b3UgcmVhZCB0aGUgSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uIGV0YywgaXQgb25seSB0YWxrcyBhYm91dCBz dGF0ZWZ1bCBwcm94aWVzLg0KPg0KPiBJSVVDLCB3aGVuIHVzZWQgd2l0aG91dCBxdWFsaWZpY2F0 aW9uLCAic3RhdGVmdWwgcHJveHkiIG1lYW5zICp0cmFuc2FjdGlvbiBzdGF0ZWZ1bCouIEFuZCBp bmRlZWQgaXQgDQo+IGlzbid0IHBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGRvIHRoZSBwcm94eSByb2xlIGZvciBSRkM0 MDI4IHdpdGhvdXQgYmVpbmcgdHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gc3RhdGVmdWwuDQo+DQo+IFRoYXQgaXMgc3Rp bGwgdHJ1ZSB0byBoYW5kbGUgdGhlIG5lc3RlZCBVUERBVEUtd2l0aGluLUlOVklURSBjYXNlcyBp biB0aGUgd2F5cyB3ZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gZGlzY3Vzc2luZy4gVGhlIA0KPiBuZWNlc3Nhcnkgc3Rh dGUgaXMgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgSU5WSVRFIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uLCBidXQgdGhlbiB0aGUgVVBEQVRF IHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uIG5lZWRzIGFjY2VzcyB0byBpdC4gDQo+IEl0IGRvZXNuJ3QgcmVxdWlyZSBs b25nZXIgbGl2ZWQgc2Vzc2lvbi1zdGF0ZS4NCg0KQ29ycmVjdC4NCg0KPiBCdXQgSSdtIHN1Z2dl c3RpbmcgdGhhdCB1bmxlc3MgYSBwcm94eSBpcyBzZXNzaW9uLXN0YXRlZnVsIHRoZW4gdGhlcmUg cHJvYmFibHkgaXMgbm8gcmVhc29uIGZvciBpdCB0byB3YW50IHRvIG1lc3Mgd2l0aCBzZXNzaW9u IHRpbWVycy4NCg0KQWdyZWUuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg== From nobody Sat Sep 29 12:51:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A224130DF6 for ; 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Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:51:19 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:51:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqLvz+vpogznfWS0uzDzMaPH1xyY2 ByaPX1+vsnksWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvjftNDxoIm8Yr1J56zNTD2CXUxcnJICJhI bPh/g6mLkYtDSGAHk8TVyxOhnIdMEqvP9rCAVAkLWEg0np7GCmKLCKRJ9EzsZwexhQT6mSR+ LygFsdkEtCTmHPoPVs8rYC9x8MATJhCbRUBV4sPNC2D1okC9fzuXMELUCEqcnPkErJ5TwEbi zc0LYDazgJnEvM0PmSFscYlbT+YzQdjyEs1bZzNPYOSfhaR9FpKWWUhaZiFpWcDIsopRLjGn NFc3NzEzpzg1Wbc4OTEvL7VI11AvN7NELzWldBMjJFR5djB+WydziFGAg1GJhzfg0PpoIdbE suLK3EOMkhxMSqK8jtPXRQvxJeWnVGYkFmfEF5XmpBYfYpTgYFYS4d26D6icNyWxsiq1KB8m Jc3BoiTOy2qyN0pIID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmK8PBoSTBO/kaUKNgUWp6akVaZk4JQpqJgxNkOA/Q 8McgNbzFBYm5xZnpEPlTjMYce742zWDmaHt6fQazEEtefl6qlDivGkipAEhpRmke3DRYunnF KA70nDDvJpAqHmCqgpv3CmgVE9AqkQNrQFaVJCKkpBoYJ1Sm/VzM/W/fvuPWEw8sEz73qJaZ 63vdpK/bRaYl8Wy99HPHg3rlB+1n6u8fP1bSsftisWydj21N+u5z4R5/ly5MWSFRdXlTyHr9 aRseTyrezmsjEh35esdunm910x6ebtRMcdBzirB9U7msSyvWb3ny73NScUr5BilVwR7PzyuV rvuhc2JFhhJLcUaioRZzUXEiAEF8JyYSAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:51:24 -0000 Christer, On 9/29/18 2:22 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >>>> The new changes seem workable. >>>> >>>> There is one case that I think is not currently covered: when a UA >>>> that requires push support is the recipient of a dialog establishing request. >>>> It doesn't appear that the purk mechanism covers this case. >>> >>> The second paragraph of section 6.2.2 describes the proxy behaviour for that case. >> >> Maybe I am not understanding, but I don't think this covers my case. I think 6.2.2 is >> talking about the case where a UA sends a request through the push proxy that supports it. >>I'm talking about the request coming the other way. > The 1st paragraph talks about the proxy receiving an initial request > sent by the UA. The 2nd paragraph talks about the proxy receiving an > initial request addressed towards the UA. >>For instance: >> >>1) Alice registers with her registrar and sets up all the push mechanism >> >>2) Bob sends an INVITE to Alice. >> >>3) Alice receives the INVITE, and decides it is a case where it might go to sleep mid-session and will need push notifications to wake up. >> >>4) What does Alice to do get that set up ??? > That is covered in the first sentence of section 6.1.1.: >    "When the UA sends in initial request for a dialog, *or a 2xx response* > *   to such requests*, if the UA is willing to receive push notifications >    triggered by incoming mid-dialog requests, the UA MUST include a 'pn- >    purr' SIP URI parameter in the Contact header of the request or >    response." > Regards, > Christer Sorry - I have not been reading and thinking this through carefully enough. I agree that the sections you have pointed to cover my case. This depends on the incoming INVITE having been addressed to the receiving UA's AOR, thus being translated to the registered contact that contains the pn params, and then traversing the push proxy that can use those pn params to locate the purr value. That does cover a lot of cases, but not all. Consider another case: 1) Alice registers with her registrar and sets up all the push mechanism 2) Alice calls Bob (session C1) using purr to establish push notifications. 3) Bob send an INVITE/Replaces request to Alice using the Alice's contact address from C1. The goal of introducing purr was to avoid having to disclose the pn params to other UAs. So the contact address won't have those pn parameters. But it will have the purr parameter. That should be enough, but I guess it may require more text to over an out of dialog request with a purr param. The bigger problem is that this request may well not traverse the push proxy. That is a problem. This is one of the things that GRUUs were designed for. So it may be that this case is going to require a GRUU, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid with purr. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sat Sep 29 13:05:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E0D1294D0 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:05:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AayYbaiZqMSt for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22B23128CE4 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538251507; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uMUSafP7ctnh/OVUImtOe2cW6DQbZcrX2JRfN9ZhQck=; b=TymPyQhymN6fhMs1Q35FkDkwM4FSrI+mSGAA+ukD2fzXK6l8jZgUzlhC0qP9qppT 7zW4B9o/zG3GtGXLUs8gja36yT6riVeVm2XTRnVICVVCmP/QDwkVc93yKG+b9XDu 8izjxPWnKwKz6ujrqgruvr2pb9dXZVc5x97Jd0HROAE=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-43-5bafdaf3d489 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AE.45.22015.3FADFAB5; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:05:06 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:05:06 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) Thread-Index: AQHUVX2hakN5/OdJyUqIZBP0YKo5VKUFpyiAgACA6ZCAAUTLgIAAKhMw///4IQCAACPRMA== Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:05:06 +0000 Message-ID: <8b92b2645eb040cdb66fa563c59c11e0@ericsson.com> References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> 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[209.85.210.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e2-v6sm10525719pgv.25.2018.09.29.15.22.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id b7-v6so6625842pfo.3 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:441f:: with SMTP id r31-v6mr4327977pga.60.1538259744389; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:22:12 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a3016d05770a0199" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:22:29 -0000 --000000000000a3016d05770a0199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 3:13 PM Paul Kyzivat wrote: > I'm interested in hearing of well motivated use cases for UAs and > non-session-stateful proxies to want a session timer. > > This is about session state. But most importantly it is about how much work proxy needs to do to maintain session state. The main use case for proxy session timer is billing. Whenever new dialog is established an entry is created in the DB (and by this I mean traditional database used for storage of call records). When dialog is ended, call record is closed and balance for account is updated. The problem with this case is some percentage of the calls die without sending a disconnect message. These calls are cleaned up using SIP session timer. In this implementation proxy updates a DB call record for each INVITE/UPDATE message it receives for the dialog with current time. Some sort of timer based process scans the call records table and closes the call records that has not been updated since the last scan. Most of the time all of this logic is implemented in proxy config script. The problem with all if this is that it puts a limit on how complex the proxy request handling rules can be. As far as use case for UA initiating session timer is concerned it is about negotiating refresh interval and refresher. UA use periodic signaling exchanges to make sure remote is fully operational and did not crash (some crashes kill the signaling but keep the media. Some dialogs do not have media to monitor the session). Without session timer negotiation both sides of the call become refreshers with the same refresh interval which results in INVITE collisions. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000a3016d05770a0199 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Sep = 29, 2018 at 3:13 PM Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote= :
= I'm interested in hearing of well motivated use cases for UAs and
non-session-stateful proxies to want a session timer.

<= div>=C2=A0
This is about session state. But most importantly it i= s about how much work proxy needs to do to maintain session state. The main= use case for proxy session timer is billing. Whenever new dialog is establ= ished an entry is created in the DB (and by this I mean traditional databas= e used for storage of call records). When dialog is ended, call record is c= losed and balance for account is updated. The problem with this case is som= e percentage of the calls die without sending a disconnect message. These c= alls are cleaned up using SIP session timer. In this implementation proxy u= pdates a DB call record for each INVITE/UPDATE message it receives for the = dialog with current time. Some sort of timer based process scans the call r= ecords table and closes the call records that has not been updated since th= e last scan. Most of the time all of this logic is implemented in proxy con= fig script. The problem with all if this is that it puts a limit on how com= plex the proxy request handling rules can be.

As far as use case for UA initiating session timer is= concerned it is about negotiating refresh interval and refresher.=C2=A0=C2=A0UA use periodic signaling exchang= es to make sure remote is fully operational and did not crash (some crashes= kill the signaling but keep the media. Some dialogs do not have media to m= onitor the session).=C2=A0Without session timer negotiation both sid= es of the call become refreshers with the same refresh interval which resul= ts in INVITE collisions.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--000000000000a3016d05770a0199-- From nobody Sun Sep 30 03:38:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44C0130DF1 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:38:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TVD_PH_BODY_ACCOUNTS_PRE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n4Q_73WWaw8n for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F48F120072 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:38:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538303885; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GnzF4OUmY6u4g+iUuIme6jxoYrKJXVfpduakXujNo0s=; b=cTwRlmD/OrfbrV5qbJnHtbtoarrU6RuEdBLvj/QgUrOhyrVBmxhgpW+TTfK59poP IYbRG7xrP5utGpDQ86OJDILk7JPMtMyAuBgw3SHuokyNlLGBFcx3f3zgXZbMe/Wu rIYlTT4OP2rkF692+8lGB7V73CPH53m3SYmlqErNuCM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-20bff700000055ff-9f-5bb0a78cc22d Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AC.C8.22015.C87A0BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:04 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:04 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat CC: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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[209.85.210.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s14-v6sm12399630pgv.29.2018.09.30.12.38.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id k19-v6so7650053pfi.1 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:402:: with SMTP id 2-v6mr8323487ple.277.1538336311461; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 15:38:22 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000063cc2605771bd59f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 19:38:35 -0000 --00000000000063cc2605771bd59f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 6:38 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > I don=E2=80=99t disagree with your charging use-case, but in my experienc= e such > proxies do insert Record-Route (in order to receive the BYE etc), and the= y > are session stateful. > Yes, these proxies do insert Record-Route and they are station stateful. Please note that storing information for each received INVITE request and response, which would be required to detect UPDATE during INVITE, would require at least twice as many DB updates then storing information only for each successful INVITE, which is done now. Correctly handling INVITE collisions of failed INVITE requests and correlating them to UPDATE transactions would complicate the proxy logic. All of this is doable but would create a new additional burden on the proxies. As I have said earlier, this is not just about the session state but also about the amount of updates done to the session state and logic required to manage it. Currently both are fairly rudimentary which allows proxies to scale better. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000063cc2605771bd59f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 6:38 AM Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@eri= csson.com> wrote:

I don=E2=80=99t disagree with your charging = use-case, but in my experience such proxies do insert Record-Route (in orde= r to receive the BYE etc), and they are session stateful.


Yes, these proxies do insert Record-Route and they are st= ation stateful. Please note that storing information for each received INVI= TE request and response, which would be required to detect UPDATE during IN= VITE, would require at least twice as many DB updates then storing informat= ion only for each successful INVITE, which is done now. Correctly handling = INVITE collisions of failed INVITE requests and correlating them to UPDATE = transactions would complicate the proxy logic. All of this is doable but wo= uld create a new additional burden on the proxies. As I have said earlier, = this is not just about the session state but also about the amount of updat= es done to the session state and logic required to manage it. Currently bot= h=C2=A0are fairly rudimentary which allows proxies to scale better.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--00000000000063cc2605771bd59f-- From nobody Sun Sep 30 12:52:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860131286D9 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oETbB9-5774e for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9682E130E12 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538337127; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xU4v5IM2AnjfUJCPJOIhN1ST7IAbDjM9Ru7p3bvJB8Q=; b=dWiRIPZltUHZsHW+dWvic709eEFDDguZxrPhG5fzq9zMw9a/BJqyPeGWKTjQ4DoU s4DIxFDvoYiHSVPuWRhe2yhIqSlJ8Y0BHHA70qFtb1m5H/Kb1vYondawXFjFEqjW rtGBbFo3aE286tdqSFEtum2+/q3P60AGbFj6xtE+awg=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-223ff700000055ff-a1-5bb12967573f Received: from ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.115]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7B.A1.22015.76921BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:52:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:52:07 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:52:07 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkD//+neAAAHFpNw///u1wCAARQ9AIAAGiaA///RFRCAAEmUAIAANN8A//8Rd2CAAlMXAP//3Vog Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 19:52:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7sW665sZog1VH9SyW9K9hs1ix4QCr xYwLU5ktvv7YxObA4vH3/Qcmj52z7rJ7LFnyk8nj1pSCAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroz7i9vZ C07xVjxfOY29gXEObxcjJ4eEgInEhu+TGLsYuTiEBI4ySjRO3sQG4XxjlPgxuQ/KWcYo8aH3 NVMXIwcHm4CFRPc/bZBuEQFVib/fJzOB2MwCeRLdmy4zgtjCAoUSjT8Os0DUFEl0H+1gAZkj IrCPUWL5o0XsIAkWoOYTPZdZQWxeAWuJ/n9TWCGWneWUmHpnAlgRp0CgRMut3WBTGQXEJL6f WgO1TVzi1pP5TBA/CEgs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rhK0ksffYdRaQo5kFNCXW79KHaFWUmNL9kB1i r6DEyZlPWCYwis1CMnUWQscsJB2zkHQsYGRZxShanFpcnJtuZKyXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiREY Zwe3/Nbdwbj6teMhRgEORiUeXiPVjdFCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHiDrmyIFuJNSaysSi3Kjy8q zUktPsQozcGiJM6rt2pPlJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoGRs9tdTv6m6LNnZspLvmjY/bQr iZLWujZzm+zWC3NPyOn39Qay9DfmlngKVQU/+7wmOtyfq2ziyXnx1w3bA8WuzpQMyZ++YW7r ylObdXyXKt85fKB/laTxHYNtXcv0mBWvTClaumm32W+Frzo77O5uUimLTZRYNlHL385M0TXb UtIyNTT56GYlluKMREMt5qLiRAA5pMPjrwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 19:52:12 -0000 DQo+PiBJIGRvbuKAmXQgZGlzYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB5b3VyIGNoYXJnaW5nIHVzZS1jYXNlLCBidXQg aW4gbXkgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBzdWNoIHByb3hpZXMgZG8gaW5zZXJ0IFJlY29yZC1Sb3V0ZSAoaW4g b3JkZXIgdG8gcmVjZWl2ZSB0aGUgQllFIGV0YyksIGFuZCB0aGV5IGFyZSBzZXNzaW9uIHN0YXRl ZnVsLg0KPg0KPiBZZXMsIHRoZXNlIHByb3hpZXMgZG8gaW5zZXJ0IFJlY29yZC1Sb3V0ZSBhbmQg dGhleSBhcmUgc3RhdGlvbiBzdGF0ZWZ1bC4gUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBzdG9yaW5nIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uIA0KPiBmb3IgZWFjaCByZWNlaXZlZCBJTlZJVEUgcmVxdWVzdCBhbmQgcmVzcG9uc2Us IHdoaWNoIHdvdWxkIGJlIHJlcXVpcmVkIHRvIGRldGVjdCBVUERBVEUgZHVyaW5nIElOVklURSwg DQo+IHdvdWxkIHJlcXVpcmUgYXQgbGVhc3QgdHdpY2UgYXMgbWFueSBEQiB1cGRhdGVzIHRoZW4g c3RvcmluZyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBvbmx5IGZvciBlYWNoIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwgSU5WSVRFLCANCj4g d2hpY2ggaXMgZG9uZSBub3cuIENvcnJlY3RseSBoYW5kbGluZyBJTlZJVEUgY29sbGlzaW9ucyBv ZiBmYWlsZWQgSU5WSVRFIHJlcXVlc3RzIGFuZCBjb3JyZWxhdGluZyB0aGVtIHRvIA0KPiBVUERB VEUgdHJhbnNhY3Rpb25zIHdvdWxkIGNvbXBsaWNhdGUgdGhlIHByb3h5IGxvZ2ljLiBBbGwgb2Yg dGhpcyBpcyBkb2FibGUgYnV0IHdvdWxkIGNyZWF0ZSBhIG5ldyBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIA0KPiBidXJk ZW4gb24gdGhlIHByb3hpZXMuIEFzIEkgaGF2ZSBzYWlkIGVhcmxpZXIsIHRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGp1 c3QgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHNlc3Npb24gc3RhdGUgYnV0IGFsc28gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGFtb3VudCANCj4g b2YgdXBkYXRlcyBkb25lIHRvIHRoZSBzZXNzaW9uIHN0YXRlIGFuZCBsb2dpYyByZXF1aXJlZCB0 byBtYW5hZ2UgaXQuIEN1cnJlbnRseSBib3RowqBhcmUgZmFpcmx5IHJ1ZGltZW50YXJ5IHdoaWNo DQo+IGFsbG93cyBwcm94aWVzIHRvIHNjYWxlIGJldHRlci4NCg0KSWYgd2Ugd2FudCB0byBzYXkg dGhhdCBhIHByb3h5IG11c3Qgbm90IGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgUy1FIHZhbHVlIGluIGEgIm1pZC1JTlZJ VEUiIFVQREFURSwgdGhlIHByb3h5IG5lZWRzIHRvIGtub3cgdGhhdCB0aGUgSU5WSVRFIHRyYW5z YWN0aW9uIGlzIHN0aWxsIG9uZ29pbmcgKGFuZCBpdCBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgbmVlZHMgdG8ga25vdyB3 aGF0IFMtRSB2YWx1ZSBpdCBoYXMgdXNlZCBmb3IgdGhlIElOVklURSkuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoN CkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Sep 30 13:12:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E7D1294D0 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tQrYscoPnXx2 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42e.google.com (mail-pf1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D85F51286D9 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id a23-v6so7636597pfi.12 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AFkJ9j0cYfZ6uxoPT/1NIQQyM80vjwctfmKmVssfYkY=; b=dIlUniCW61uww8Y+0IIMEJw2r6chgxeEKatlh2wYbauwAoeme9mzIIZyOEw2itDC32 1hkt8n3e/t9EM/0bfi+S+DOo8Mmgrfzv0EKkluyLefOZOg+VlXktm/2MMwlHdhV5aMI+ /YjPT7qg7Fk1rRUQccUv/qikeVMnjSWGE5zurQgzkk6P7JUAIll+ljoVUpbUNQ8Xtmv9 MiirteinZJbIVaFRHNzn5o0RDnKSyCK2ilhQZP+NUQ5q1ek3KKhyXz5PqxmaqNStNWeq KWV6FkMbd+YDGVNWSbYui4R5qTqLnQY+Ug94phBZ/2xavzJxN1K0QxIp+v9lAB8e/68u MTtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AFkJ9j0cYfZ6uxoPT/1NIQQyM80vjwctfmKmVssfYkY=; b=LC8khWDJQLZIH53+3e5M2340gKDO7j3cTvYXutfmvqzn+8q36iDY4dtf9zd3MYpmV6 FHb4QxMSnaxGZ+k2KvLMusRGUGrkIo978lmmF09qyb3bVIzxG6gLVKB1lRKG2RjH2myH 79KFXuwckI//3+7eoE4kWf1Bbm1CwGqGl7r8kDjCUP90pcTwLNLEsZq3oIkTnKALohmx DRkM1ycG0wXCuEK4GaOH8nh93nrObvN2/9JU1OaJTFN2RPcJoFRprEP8iBHen39dkwNk H3XQHvsxUlAViEyBTyiIXMfVRbbr8QF0GEXGfmYfBL+1ncpbV+mCjrFUjaYoPr+Rpnro sV+g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogr5eSEGLMTB4Cqf6aj6YiwVpKU90vCSnbQ/LHZTAau/VH2r+E4 zpTeU1iYt2FNRNCxk+fllEbR0pBsVxU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60uZyKJpJ+96ifYDNLHSrOWMmhQTr961TASpyfxalPZLx0BdD6mjWUXjjcxWNhVf7ahAASaxw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e141:: with SMTP id h1-v6mr7145892pgk.47.1538338361319; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-f180.google.com (mail-pf1-f180.google.com. [209.85.210.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e9-v6sm1436975pgs.92.2018.09.30.13.12.39 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f180.google.com with SMTP id p12-v6so7677487pfh.2 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a62:9f11:: with SMTP id g17-v6mr8242053pfe.144.1538338359649; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:12:30 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000078ada105771c4f99" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:12:43 -0000 --00000000000078ada105771c4f99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 3:52 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > >> I don=E2=80=99t disagree with your charging use-case, but in my experi= ence such > proxies do insert Record-Route (in order to receive the BYE etc), and the= y > are session stateful. > > > > Yes, these proxies do insert Record-Route and they are station stateful= . > Please note that storing information > > for each received INVITE request and response, which would be required > to detect UPDATE during INVITE, > > would require at least twice as many DB updates then storing informatio= n > only for each successful INVITE, > > which is done now. Correctly handling INVITE collisions of failed INVIT= E > requests and correlating them to > > UPDATE transactions would complicate the proxy logic. All of this is > doable but would create a new additional > > burden on the proxies. As I have said earlier, this is not just about > the session state but also about the amount > > of updates done to the session state and logic required to manage it. > Currently both are fairly rudimentary which > > allows proxies to scale better. > > If we want to say that a proxy must not change the S-E value in a > "mid-INVITE" UPDATE, the proxy needs to know that the INVITE transaction = is > still ongoing (and it of course needs to know what S-E value it has used > for the INVITE). > > This is exactly what I was saying: If you impose this rule on the proxy, you will double the number of DB updates done by the proxy comparing to what it is doing now. This can create a major barrier to adoption. If you implement the ambiguity resolution rule on the client, then proxy load will remain the same. Furthermore, you will need to have this rule for the client anyway since legacy proxies will not follow the new rule. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000078ada105771c4f99 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 3:52 PM Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@eri= csson.com> wrote:

>> I don=E2=80=99t disagree with your charging use-case, but in my ex= perience such proxies do insert Record-Route (in order to receive the BYE e= tc), and they are session stateful.
>
> Yes, these proxies do insert Record-Route and they are station statefu= l. Please note that storing information
> for each received INVITE request and response, which would be required= to detect UPDATE during INVITE,
> would require at least twice as many DB updates then storing informati= on only for each successful INVITE,
> which is done now. Correctly handling INVITE collisions of failed INVI= TE requests and correlating them to
> UPDATE transactions would complicate the proxy logic. All of this is d= oable but would create a new additional
> burden on the proxies. As I have said earlier, this is not just about = the session state but also about the amount
> of updates done to the session state and logic required to manage it. = Currently both=C2=A0are fairly rudimentary which
> allows proxies to scale better.

If we want to say that a proxy must not change the S-E value in a "mid= -INVITE" UPDATE, the proxy needs to know that the INVITE transaction i= s still ongoing (and it of course needs to know what S-E value it has used = for the INVITE).


This is exactly wh= at I was saying: If you impose this rule on the proxy, you will double the = number of DB updates done by the proxy comparing to what it is doing now. T= his can create a major barrier to adoption. If you implement the ambiguity = resolution rule on the client, then proxy load will remain the same. Furthe= rmore, you will need to have this rule for the client anyway since legacy p= roxies will not follow the new rule.

Regards,_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
--00000000000078ada105771c4f99-- From nobody Sun Sep 30 13:23:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CE3130E90 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikgjLEgtLgRt for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3F09130E68 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:23:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538338988; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Dh2c5c/AThTXPnM3W4459sNNuwbTWtX1hNGBJunzGaY=; b=LeGeNoIBJgAZ2ZBChPidQcHgcgHpWH0WYPmWXPVPKP6r0a5DI6bxrXoDv/tkVEh/ wqI3OE+Do19UyAZEK/YzKfWATqbnL5K1Je++L8nnLnmtI9ryUedIox6jSM2o/Uz+ T9Mitijnv52kMHdt0brKq0oNZ3JeDtnWbrQx8hdLC1w=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-395ff70000003197-9c-5bb130ac0e73 Received: from ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.121]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C2.61.12695.CA031BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 22:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 22:23:08 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 22:23:08 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? Thread-Index: AQHUVmBKGAWtdcKXYEmnd7A0tDa7VaUEQWoAgAA3EyD//+8WgIAALOqQgACx7QCAADbTgP//2CoAgAABuQCAAFwYgIAAFJYAgABgUkD//+neAAAHFpNw///u1wCAARQ9AIAAGiaA///RFRCAAEmUAIAANN8A//8Rd2CAAlMXAP//3VogAAWGBQD//9xscA== Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:23:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7pe4ag43RBpvWWlss6V/DZrFiwwFW ixkXpjJbfP2xic2BxePv+w9MHjtn3WX3WLLkJ5PHrSkFASxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBmnJk5j K9ggUrH+llED4xvhLkZODgkBE4nfnzazdzFycQgJHGWUmPbkLJTzjVFiz+a5LCBVQgLLGCUW r03rYuTgYBOwkOj+pw0SFhFQlfj7fTITiM0skCfRvekyI4gtLFAo0fjjMAtETZFE99EOFpCZ IgLnGCX6nzaygyRYgJqPtFwFs3kFrCV27O5lgth1jEvi+2kZEJtTIFBi0pVPYHFGATGJ76fW QC0Tl7j1ZD4TxAcCEkv2nGeGsEUlXj7+xwphK0nsPXadBeRmZgFNifW79CFaFSWmdD+EWiso cXLmE5YJjGKzkEydhdAxC0nHLCQdCxhZVjGKFqcWF+emGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIERtjB Lb+tdjAefO54iFGAg1GJhzdHdWO0EGtiWXFl7iFGCQ5mJRHeoCsbooV4UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNS iw8xSnOwKInzOqVZRAkJpCeWpGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYNQVSqqTqskTDiqS3qey5V/6e+/65 Q+72q6NnLdj9bo+4yao4o+9Vx43Pfeg1ODJV9k/5tcnNC6++/3bpzgIZpmfnWnqdM5+lvDV4 EHCUb+2UCTky9dVz1RZfMvfb6LjogUTumYptNSvDT+/Zr6hk9CuD+6vAS8mm59Z1x31V/rMZ t9rPePbKRomlOCPRUIu5qDgRACwleq6sAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:31:22 -0400 To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> <8b92b2645eb040cdb66fa563c59c11e0@ericsson.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <6def0507-408c-d8d0-83d2-45b312228941@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:31:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8b92b2645eb040cdb66fa563c59c11e0@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqDvHaGO0QecacYsLMw8zWnz9sYnN gcnj19erbB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MrYtuAhS8Ej+Yqz39cwNjBOlexi5OSQEDCR mH6tiaWLkYtDSGAHk8TyZx+YQRJCAg+ZJD5c8waxhQUsJBpPT2MFsUUE0iR6JvazQzR8Z5JY eGUHG0iCTUBLYs6h/ywgNq+AvcTV9W+YQGwWAVWJRVNfg9miQM1/O5cwQtQISpyc+QSsnlPA RuLJDYgaZgEziXmbHzJD2OISt57Mh4rLSzRvnc08gZF/FpL2WUhaZiFpmYWkZQEjyypGucSc 0lzd3MTMnOLUZN3i5MS8vNQiXWO93MwSvdSU0k2MkFDl28HYvl7mEKMAB6MSD++KI+ujhVgT y4orcw8xSnIwKYnyOk5fFy3El5SfUpmRWJwRX1Sak1p8iFGCg1lJhDfoyoZoId6UxMqq1KJ8 mJQ0B4uSOC+byd4oIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimKwMB4eSBO8Rw43RQoJFqempFWmZOSUIaSYOTpDh PEDDzUFqeIsLEnOLM9Mh8qcYjTn2fG2awczR9vT6DGYhlrz8vFQpcd5OkFIBkNKM0jy4abB0 84pRHOg5Yd5XIFU8wFQFN+8V0ComoFWNpSB/FJckIqSkGhitVX5GTiueKce95Jq8hfWT69/K Fvm0SD/W+bjeq93woe4vAY04s5ePTpu+8z5jM/WZ14kPWY4PL2vUfUyosHY7qbSj/sGiz+G3 +bt9+a9J3KrftS0kb9meOhPVr4pvAne4e7/oOvPaofj9ir1dE34xPf2/a621tuaktxOib2nk mG3/fv+rwac/SizFGYmGWsxFxYkA68wwpRIDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:31:29 -0000 On 9/29/18 4:05 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>>> The new changes seem workable. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is one case that I think is not currently covered: when a UA >>>>>> that requires push support is the recipient of a dialog establishing request. >>>>>> It doesn't appear that the purk mechanism covers this case. >>>>> >>>>> The second paragraph of section 6.2.2 describes the proxy behaviour for that case. >>>> >>>> Maybe I am not understanding, but I don't think this covers my case. >>>> I think 6.2.2 is talking about the case where a UA sends a request through the push proxy that supports it. >>>> I'm talking about the request coming the other way. >>> The 1st paragraph talks about the proxy receiving an initial request >>> sent by the UA. The 2nd paragraph talks about the proxy receiving an >>> initial request addressed towards the UA. >>>> For instance: >>>> >>>> 1) Alice registers with her registrar and sets up all the push >>>> mechanism >>>> >>>> 2) Bob sends an INVITE to Alice. >>>> >>>> 3) Alice receives the INVITE, and decides it is a case where it might go to sleep mid-session and will need push notifications to wake up. >>>> >>>> 4) What does Alice to do get that set up ??? >>> That is covered in the first sentence of section 6.1.1.: >>>    "When the UA sends in initial request for a dialog, *or a 2xx >>> response** to such requests*, if the UA is willing to receive push >>> notifications triggered by incoming mid-dialog requests, the UA MUST include a >>> 'pn-purr' SIP URI parameter in the Contact header of the request or >>>    response." >> >> Sorry - I have not been reading and thinking this through carefully enough. >> >> I agree that the sections you have pointed to cover my case. This depends on the incoming INVITE having been >> addressed to the receiving UA's AOR, thus being translated to the registered contact that contains the pn params, >> and then traversing the push proxy that can use those pn params to locate the purr value. That does cover a lot >> of cases, but not all. >> >> Consider another case: >> >> 1) Alice registers with her registrar and sets up all the push mechanism >> >> 2) Alice calls Bob (session C1) using purr to establish push notifications. >> >> 3) Bob send an INVITE/Replaces request to Alice using the Alice's contact address from C1. >> >> The goal of introducing purr was to avoid having to disclose the pn params to other UAs. So >> the contact address won't have those pn parameters. But it will have the purr parameter. That >> should be enough, but I guess it may require more text to over an out of dialog request with a >> purr param. >> >> The bigger problem is that this request may well not traverse the push proxy. That is a problem. >> This is one of the things that GRUUs were designed for. So it may be that this case is going to >> require a GRUU, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid with purr. > > The draft doesn't specify HOW the purr is generated (as long as it is unique), and nothing prevents the proxy from giving "gruu-alike" properties to the purr. > > Either that, or the operator will have to configure the network to ensure that such requests will traverse the proxy. Then there are some strong constraints on URIs that Alice may use as the contact address in C1: 1) out of dialog requests addressed to it must traverse Alice's push proxy, and also preserve the purr param when it traverses that proxy; 2) or it must itself have GRUU properties, in that requests to it must traverse Alice's home proxy and then be translated to Alice's registered contact; 3) else out of dialog requests won't result in dialogs with push support. Achieving (1) is very similar to implementing GRUU. It isn't easy to achieve. ISTM it is necessary to at least explain all this, or else define a mechanism that guarantees this property. And I'm dubious that is appropriate to just leave it with a disclaimer. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sun Sep 30 14:22:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842AC130E14 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TVD_PH_BODY_ACCOUNTS_PRE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U5xZp2CW5Pi9 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu [18.7.68.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85480129619 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440d-909ff70000000b20-cc-5bb13e9dbd5c Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id A8.C1.02848.E9E31BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8ULMad4025616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:22:37 -0400 To: Roman Shpount Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE References: <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <7bc08878-d311-881b-9eff-bd62339331ae@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:22:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrJKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqDvfbmO0wbFLrBYXZh5mtFjSv4bN YsaFqcwWX39sYnNg8fj19Sqbx85Zd9k9liz5yeRxa0pBAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8bT3o3s BY1CFZs6+RsYp/N1MXJySAiYSDz6fYapi5GLQ0hgB5PE9d5prBDOQyaJzRO/M3cxcnAICxRK NDwQAmkQEVCV+Pt9MlgDs0Azo0TPnKPsEA232SUajx5iBKliE9CSmHPoPwuIzStgL/Fr0SNW kEEsQN3bG8pBwqICaRJ/O5cwQpQISpyc+QSsnFMgUGL+lylgNrOAmcS8zQ+ZIWxxiVtP5jNB 2PISzVtnM09gFJiFpH0WkpZZSFpmIWlZwMiyilEuMac0Vzc3MTOnODVZtzg5MS8vtUjXSC83 s0QvNaV0EyMkzHl3MP5fJ3OIUYCDUYmHN+DQ+mgh1sSy4srcQ4ySHExKoryO09dFC/El5adU ZiQWZ8QXleakFh9ilOBgVhLhDbqyIVqINyWxsiq1KB8mJc3BoiTOy2ayN0pIID2xJDU7NbUg tQgmK8PBoSTB62+7MVpIsCg1PbUiLTOnBCHNxMEJMpwHaHguSA1vcUFibnFmOkT+FKM9x56v TTOYObad6QSSbU+vA8kOECnEkpeflyolzrvVBqhNAKQtozQPbjIshb1iFAd6VJh3PchwHmD6 g5v9CmgtE9DaxlKQn4pLEhFSUg2MUo9XuFTXZVVMWmrUfWybsXmih/g6oS/ak2Xe7fwR99Jm +paI/d5SE/I9LSNzWv+US8tzbzDND678La8VFip/kz256dn19Wb+cw+p1E4yfHgmiCutgNfu psTuc8bsW7ekd56w0NDuNDykJZiaqrZKctm+xH5JU9WUdxNm1B5mVvFjD6nn7lBiKc5INNRi LipOBAC+5YE5PAMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:22:43 -0000 On 9/29/18 6:22 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 3:13 PM Paul Kyzivat > wrote: > > I'm interested in hearing of well motivated use cases for UAs and > non-session-stateful proxies to want a session timer. > > This is about session state. Based on your description below, I would consider such a proxy to be session stateful, and so it fits into my notion of why to request a session timer. > But most importantly it is about how much > work proxy needs to do to maintain session state. The main use case for > proxy session timer is billing. Whenever new dialog is established an > entry is created in the DB (and by this I mean traditional database used > for storage of call records). When dialog is ended, call record is > closed and balance for account is updated. The problem with this case is > some percentage of the calls die without sending a disconnect message. > These calls are cleaned up using SIP session timer. In this > implementation proxy updates a DB call record for each INVITE/UPDATE > message it receives for the dialog with current time. Some sort of timer > based process scans the call records table and closes the call records > that has not been updated since the last scan. Most of the time all of > this logic is implemented in proxy config script. The problem with all > if this is that it puts a limit on how complex the proxy request > handling rules can be. This issue of how to structure the session timer rules so as to minimize the work required of a particular set of session stateful proxies should probably be a separate discussion. ISTM that there are many ways to skin this cat. > As far as use case for UA initiating session timer is concerned it is > about negotiating refresh interval and refresher.  UA use periodic > signaling exchanges to make sure remote is fully operational and did not > crash (some crashes kill the signaling but keep the media. Some dialogs > do not have media to monitor the session). Without session timer > negotiation both sides of the call become refreshers with the same > refresh interval which results in INVITE collisions. OK, that makes some sense. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sun Sep 30 14:25:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BDE130E17 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:25:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vP35cifmTTx1 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD16E130E14 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:25:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074412-1a7ff70000000c6c-ab-5bb13f33bb7e Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by alum-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id E7.65.03180.33F31BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w8ULP6Wv025712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:25:07 -0400 To: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg Cc: OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE References: <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <1461a44a-af37-9415-1567-218c9981bf01@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:25:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrCKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqGtsvzHa4OtCY4sLMw8zWizpX8Nm MePCVGaLrz82sTmwePz6epXNY+esu+weS5b8ZPK4NaUggCWKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK2PGg3aW gi7uijX7DrA3MD7n6GLk5JAQMJF4ubeXpYuRi0NIYAeTxKyjZ6Gch0wST97vZ+1i5OAQFiiU aHggBNIgIpAkcfLKOmYQm1nATWL340msEPXv2SU27n0LlmAT0JKYc+g/C4jNK2Av8XPnZ0YQ m0VAVeLk5FtgNaICaRJ/O5cwQtQISpyc+QSsnlMgUKLl1m5GiAVmEvM2P4RaJi5x68l8Jghb XqJ562zmCYwCs5C0z0LSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYxyiXmlObq5iZm5hSnJusWJyfm5aUW6Zrp5WaW 6KWmlG5ihAS60A7G9SflDjEKcDAq8fCuOLI+Wog1say4MvcQoyQHk5Ior+P0ddFCfEn5KZUZ icUZ8UWlOanFhxglOJiVRHiDrmyIFuJNSaysSi3Kh0lJc7AoifMym+yNEhJITyxJzU5NLUgt gsnKcHAoSfBy2m2MFhIsSk1PrUjLzClBSDNxcIIM5wEaHgNSw1tckJhbnJkOkT/FaMmx52vT DGaOtqfXgWQHiBRiycvPS5US5/UBaRAAacgozYObCUtcrxjFgV4U5lUDqeIBJj24qa+AFjIB LWwsBfmmuCQRISXVwBjbyNcXmF22sj+VkWENR8U634vzFaxiVCxSDtY1pzik/Ixbesdqa94f 00ecSnppH/km7Kz+ovd56YlbYt9m253bcYNFqH9Kp+sPm+QZ1x+m33UOelHANuOEcL/83oV2 +/cnO//njPk+r74/7WWKoj4nU+X8F89vTj3YGuEpFGjpe1qN7fHlu0osxRmJhlrMRcWJAEUq Rr03AwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:25:10 -0000 On 9/30/18 3:38 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 6:38 AM Christer Holmberg > > > wrote: > > I don’t disagree with your charging use-case, but in my experience > such proxies do insert Record-Route (in order to receive the BYE > etc), and they are session stateful. > > > Yes, these proxies do insert Record-Route and they are station stateful. > Please note that storing information for each received INVITE request > and response, which would be required to detect UPDATE during INVITE, > would require at least twice as many DB updates then storing information > only for each successful INVITE, which is done now. Correctly handling > INVITE collisions of failed INVITE requests and correlating them to > UPDATE transactions would complicate the proxy logic. All of this is > doable but would create a new additional burden on the proxies. As I > have said earlier, this is not just about the session state but also > about the amount of updates done to the session state and logic required > to manage it. Currently both are fairly rudimentary which allows proxies > to scale better. Are you saying that the only session state these proxies have is in the DB, with none in memory? In-memory state would be sufficient to resolve all these issues. Thanks, Paul From nobody Sun Sep 30 14:44:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2E91294D0 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:44:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p3mniZylV8mU for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF28E12008A for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:44:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1538343878; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1DOYY7KPNF5N2BCi3HigC1hylPqefA/1l3pucnwyU08=; b=GDNDeE1GL9nV8qSA5j9Ew5RitWHdrNoCrjnbgcsZEig7rwsJXIc48OPu+U7Yvb0m jdwbeBLUObLDB0wAKeQPwnXbUqBK60rXdpyrLEcILIaRjyLUJH1p3gEYz/GCX95A zBvRcfAVokr9uFVYJTbzu9mZV1a7UXC8ZvYfJy2PYdM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-37dff70000003197-5a-5bb143c637ff Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BE.A5.12695.6C341BB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:44:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:44:38 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:44:38 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) Thread-Index: AQHUVX2hakN5/OdJyUqIZBP0YKo5VKUFpyiAgACA6ZCAAUTLgIAAKhMw///4IQCAACPRMIABebWAgAAww5A= Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:44:37 +0000 Message-ID: <9a62912d056b4b61811b8992cb9dd899@ericsson.com> References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> <8b92b2645eb040cdb66fa563c59c11e0@ericsson.com> <6def0507-408c-d8d0-83d2-45b312228941@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <6def0507-408c-d8d0-83d2-45b312228941@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ie4x543RBnuvm1is2HCA1eLrj01s Dkwef99/YPJYsuQnUwBTFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAlfG9UnzmQsOiVf8nD6PpYHxi1gXIyeHhICJ xKpDa5m7GLk4hASOMkocmvSJCcL5xiixaNkNNghnGaPEvgN/gRwODjYBC4nuf9og3SICgRJX l0xgBrGFgcKTDjUygpSICFhKLPmRAVGSJPHt5iVWEJtFQFWi6fVpdhCbV8Ba4vHXs4wQ49cy S6x4MAUswSngIHHyy3kmEJtRQEzi+6k1YDazgLjErSfzmSCuFpBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WCFtJ Yu+x6ywgNzALaEqs36UP0aooMaX7IdReQYmTM5+wTGAUnYVk6iyEjllIOmYh6VjAyLKKUbQ4 tbg4N93ISC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzBKDm75bbWD8eBzx0OMAhyMSjy8E6w2RguxJpYVV+Ye YpTgYFYS4Q26siFaiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uSOK9TmkWUkEB6YklqdmpqQWoRTJaJ g1OqgbH4j9P9rqCZ2QrXuNW+fjBSs8t/o+ome9U06VeczJz2r4fu68o4CNVfbGGaqbopKpFP 7pnd1rCnLDHLItp7jP5cSLN6W7y4LqSPT+b0Qs5rC3YfypTcfklxUe+tz2GKTOvW/C9Umi/t k9UncyDOpXqLnpDrBAHVB3P3vxNljpnsYcnb0FY/QYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRACLhoWeOAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:44:43 -0000 SGksDQoNCi4uLg0KDQo+Pj4+IENvbnNpZGVyIGFub3RoZXIgY2FzZToNCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gMSkg QWxpY2UgcmVnaXN0ZXJzIHdpdGggaGVyIHJlZ2lzdHJhciBhbmQgc2V0cyB1cCBhbGwgdGhlIHB1 c2ggbWVjaGFuaXNtDQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IDIpIEFsaWNlIGNhbGxzIEJvYiAoc2Vzc2lvbiBDMSkg dXNpbmcgcHVyciB0byBlc3RhYmxpc2ggcHVzaCBub3RpZmljYXRpb25zLg0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiAz KSBCb2Igc2VuZCBhbiBJTlZJVEUvUmVwbGFjZXMgcmVxdWVzdCB0byBBbGljZSB1c2luZyB0aGUg 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[209.85.210.178]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p75-v6sm17753595pfi.22.2018.09.30.20.19.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id a23-v6so8107274pfi.12 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b7cb:: with SMTP id v11-v6mr9766097plz.79.1538363964812; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:19:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> <276ab3f6837244a19de876202507375a@ericsson.com> <3797b8b184e341d0bcd82c809778b960@ericsson.com> <8b92b2645eb040cdb66fa563c59c11e0@ericsson.com> <6def0507-408c-d8d0-83d2-45b312228941@alum.mit.edu> <9a62912d056b4b61811b8992cb9dd899@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <9a62912d056b4b61811b8992cb9dd899@ericsson.com> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:19:16 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8732f05772245bb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 03:19:29 -0000 --000000000000a8732f05772245bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 5:44 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > This is not push specific. There are other cases (e.g., related to NAT > traversal) where you need to make sure requests traverse a specific proxy. > > And the only way to solve all of them is GRUU. Everything else breaks down at some point. For instance INVITE with Replaces is very hard to get to work right without GRUU. One thing that worked for us when something like this was required (i.e. server for hosted NAT traversal and push) was to use B2BUA for registration instead of proxy. What this means is UA registers with B2BUA, B2BUA modifies registration contact to its own generated URL and registers with normal Register server. When response is received, B2BUA modifies the contact back to client actual contact and adds GRUU (which points to a URI on B2BUA server). All requests to AOR for this client or requests in or out of the dialog (GRUU) are guaranteed to got though this B2BUA which can then do its NAT/Push magic. This is how a lot of SBC work. This is what likely is going to be implemented but not what is going to be standardized. For this SBC to work you might need a standard mechanism to pass push notification parameters from the UA to SBC, which this draft already provides. The rest that we are inventing here is an excise to see if complete standard proxy based solution is possible (which is unlikely), but it is unlikely this proxy based solution will ever be used. So, can we limit the scope to what is needed (passing push parameters in registration) and move on? Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --000000000000a8732f05772245bb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 5:44 PM = Christer Holmberg <chr= ister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
This is not push specific. There a= re other cases (e.g., related to NAT traversal) where you need to make sure= requests traverse a specific proxy.


And the only way to solve all of them is GRUU. Everything else breaks dow= n at some=C2=A0point. For instance INVITE with Replaces is very hard to get= to work right without GRUU.

One thing that worked= for us when something like this was required (i.e. server for hosted NAT t= raversal and push) was to use B2BUA for registration instead of proxy. What= this means is UA registers with B2BUA, B2BUA modifies registration contact= to its own generated URL and registers with normal Register server. When r= esponse is received, B2BUA modifies the contact back to client actual conta= ct and adds GRUU (which points to a URI on B2BUA server).=C2=A0 All request= s to AOR for this client or requests in or out of the dialog (GRUU) are gua= ranteed to got though this B2BUA which can then do its NAT/Push magic.=C2= =A0

This is how a lot of SBC work. This is what li= kely is going to be implemented but not what is going to be standardized. F= or this SBC to work you might need a standard mechanism to pass push notifi= cation parameters from the UA to SBC, which this draft already provides. Th= e rest that we are inventing here is an excise to see if complete standard = proxy based solution is possible (which is unlikely), but it is unlikely th= is proxy based solution will ever be used.

So, can= we limit the scope to what is needed (passing push parameters in registrat= ion) and move on?

Regards,
_____________
R= oman Shpount
=C2=A0
=
--000000000000a8732f05772245bb-- From nobody Sun Sep 30 20:29:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F8E128CFD for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BOUND_DIGITS_15=0.798, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XNRDIs9b64dS for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C69C0128A6E for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id p12-v6so8163327pfh.2 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LNHJG0NHBmp6WNohG4hOvAyXy+Pjnel8vNy9ApVVCOA=; b=FKzH3QSt3DNnXAwS4TFLjEfN61UmQFfLZ2BLGelsYm1az73ikAL1CrjC1cgUEceBp7 1vzFaJrFYdHuulRcYKQbJYMQGIi7V4Sp9iDQcX7P5JzyK5iJnsWb/mF+7aOFOFli3y6m qTHivAV07H0XsYqK+aLW1bGOnab24fcB3TGjWVc1zT9tqFYreYaY+blEq5V8Likop4m3 x207q7tYL0hFH+WLT/dElAPr4eU86odt9VDUNVKS9M7L8EB9wi70JnQzyxFIfwZ/yMuX EhSocOZrBOiQWUSeA3e1yYwXAmkq2rE9SDQtK1jQedJ4DL8KPE88PU8AFFbVwkICpxuh 1o1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LNHJG0NHBmp6WNohG4hOvAyXy+Pjnel8vNy9ApVVCOA=; b=DMaljxJCnodYBMBREepLwFztb5aL73ZOid/zprppx3NwK/9qiNiH19BYRyPLZnYHBn 7/GPfIyScszfAhHsK5QdvCp0Y6odVi5y+ROl9YPcyF4TGlhS6l19kH1+Fuw/aXDXdWQ3 49lzwyB8gNiR1yCJefh9K5OY1WbQdml0D1FxLM9bh+sNrgCPJwwMwckWPVyTGDv6g2PM a/oaVBfPgYXfVqf/kFRB145/XFV2syHeiXnld/z4E/6wRVx4VLY1wFKGXsOE+s9UYtBF at78WaDCyHo0qigpfyM9vfg9bG6n8ewx6hDJKyBGDDuTbUgkcWORarvM7XbL5Mw0/qfW 9rRA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoi2G81ES55hbMDd8zf00UpC3vzVOZbTQ+7o4FNxrRnni/T1IPT3 s5RYMRXuda52E+lXs47HvVSNKG1y+sc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61iZC0BU8pyUk8Sb9UjUVDzNiPUGAvxg1o7LTxDoB+5wHp1xvHanNQuSlG6O1L5b6p77lLS0Q== X-Received: by 2002:a63:c608:: with SMTP id w8-v6mr8559468pgg.16.1538364563256; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f170.google.com (mail-pg1-f170.google.com. [209.85.215.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l16-v6sm4147593pfb.75.2018.09.30.20.29.22 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id n31-v6so8408879pgm.7 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:402:: with SMTP id 2-v6mr9611321ple.277.1538364562244; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:29:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> <1461a44a-af37-9415-1567-218c9981bf01@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <1461a44a-af37-9415-1567-218c9981bf01@alum.mit.edu> From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:29:13 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Paul Kyzivat Cc: Christer Holmberg , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004489960577226922" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 03:29:25 -0000 --0000000000004489960577226922 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 5:25 PM Paul Kyzivat wrote: > Are you saying that the only session state these proxies have is in the > DB, with none in memory? In-memory state would be sufficient to resolve > all these issues. > > What I am saying is that proxy has in-memory transaction state but only session state is a call detail record in the persistent database. Only state available across transactions is call record in the DB. What I am trying to get here is to keep session timer simple, so it is the standard which is actually used instead of turning it into sip-outbound, which no one understands or implements. As it stands right now I am not aware of anybody implementing the rule about re-inserting refresher by proxy if one of the end points does not support session timer. This use case is simply ignored since it provides little additional benefit (only a small additional percentage of calls have only one UA supporting session timer vs calls where both support session timer), but requires a lot of additional resources for stateful processing of INVITE transactions. Furthermore, where session timer is critical for call handling, UA which do not support session timer are placed behind B2BUA (SBC) which injects SBC support. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --0000000000004489960577226922 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 5:25 PM = Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit= .edu> wrote:
Are you saying that the only session state these proxies = have is in the
DB, with none in memory? In-memory state would be sufficient to resolve all these issues.


What I am saying= =C2=A0 is that proxy has in-memory transaction state but only session state= is a call detail record in the persistent database. Only state available a= cross transactions is call record in the DB.

What = I am trying to get here is to keep session timer simple, so it is the stand= ard which is actually used instead of turning it into sip-outbound, which n= o one understands or implements. As it stands right now I am not aware of a= nybody implementing the rule about re-inserting refresher by proxy if one o= f the end points does not support session timer. This use case is simply ig= nored since it provides little additional benefit (only a small additional = percentage of calls have only one UA supporting session timer vs calls wher= e both support session timer), but requires a lot of additional resources f= or stateful processing of INVITE transactions. Furthermore, where session t= imer is critical for call handling, UA which do not support session timer a= re placed behind B2BUA (SBC) which injects SBC support.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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[209.85.210.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q26-v6sm17296120pfj.127.2018.09.30.20.35.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id p12-v6so8172549pfh.2 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6909:: with SMTP id j9-v6mr9640040plk.196.1538364932536; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163159bdfd614311a26afe96892fdb0e@ericsson.com> <2c4c1f28-b588-f541-6c18-001aca3d5f07@gmail.com> <730FF0F4-16F4-4A99-B426-FACAE6E35801@ericsson.com> <1dcf0e36234b4de4ad2615247ab6037b@ericsson.com> <5a2d25e6078d4bbba692946aef3cf37b@ericsson.com> <6f898ecb-7ec1-9b44-6956-dc43f9d6f95a@gmail.com> <00816866427743f28af2eecacac64d7d@ericsson.com> <0a8f9f80-1f06-eb4b-4561-7dcfaa6724fa@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shpount Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:35:24 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Paul Kyzivat , OKUMURA Shinji , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056be9f0577227feb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Session-timer: Non-refresher sending UPDATE/re-INVITE - is it a session refresh request? X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 03:35:37 -0000 --00000000000056be9f0577227feb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 4:23 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > In my experience it is always easier to fix a "few" proxies than tons of > clients, but please explain the "resolution rule on the client" you have in > mind. > > The clients will need to be fixed anyway, since only some proxies would be updated and ambiguous scenarios would continue to be present. My rule for the client is very simple: If it processes UPDATE transactions during INVITE which result in different session timer negotiation result with overlaying INVITE transaction or each other, UA MUST send a new UPDATE outside of any INVITE transaction to re-negotiate the session timer state. We can then put SHOULD strength rules on proxies/UA to avoid mismatches, but the rule above would act as a catch all for all cases when this fails. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount --00000000000056be9f0577227feb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 4:23 PM Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@eri= csson.com> wrote:
In my experience it is always easier to fix a "= few" proxies than tons of clients, but please explain the "resolu= tion rule on the client" you have in mind.

The clients will need to be fixed anyway, since only some prox= ies would be updated and ambiguous scenarios would continue to be present.<= /div>

My rule for the client=C2=A0 is very simple: If it= processes UPDATE transactions during INVITE which result in different sess= ion timer negotiation result with overlaying INVITE transaction or each oth= er, UA MUST send a new UPDATE outside of any INVITE transaction to re-negot= iate=C2=A0the session timer state.

We can then put= SHOULD strength rules on proxies/UA to avoid mismatches, but the rule abov= e would act as a catch all for all cases when this fails.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
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(Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F0.1E.05037.B48A1BB5; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 06:53:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 06:53:26 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 06:53:26 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push (-15) Thread-Index: AQHUVX2hakN5/OdJyUqIZBP0YKo5VKUFpyiAgACA6ZCAAUTLgIAAKhMw///4IQCAACPRMIABebWAgAAww5CAAEE1AIAAOn1A Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 04:53:26 +0000 Message-ID: <471bfe47de3d46a08e77ddb577708941@ericsson.com> References: <32C56B05-8946-43B7-BE96-F4F6679F367E@ericsson.com> 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