From nobody Sun Feb 5 16:35:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136AD126D73; Sun, 5 Feb 2017 16:35:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148634133203.31589.6925124428608343264.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:35:32 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill-chairs@ietf.org, trill@ietf.org, skh@ndzh.com, akatlas@gmail.com Subject: [trill] trill - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 98 X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 00:35:32 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Susan Hares, a Chair of the trill working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Susan Hares Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 35 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: babel lpwan i2nsf bess netmod netconf i2rs idr intarea saag grow Second Priority: isis sfc spring sidr dnsop People who must be present: Susan Hares Donald E. Eastlake 3rd Alia Atlas Jon Hudson Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please do not schedule on Friday. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Feb 6 16:40:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36222128DF6; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:40:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148642802919.18879.6524097680106575558.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 16:40:29 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill@ietf.org Subject: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 00:40:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : TRILL Smart Endnodes Authors : Radia Perlman Fangwei Hu Huawei technology Kesava Vijaya Krupakaran Ting Liao Filename : draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2017-02-06 Abstract: This draft addresses the problem of the size and freshness of the endnode learning table in edge RBridges, by allowing endnodes to volunteer for endnode learning and encapsulation/decapsulation. Such an endnode is known as a "Smart Endnode". Only the attached edge RBridge can distinguish a "Smart Endnode" from a "normal endnode". The smart endnode uses the nickname of the attached edge RBridge, so this solution does not consume extra nicknames. The solution also enables Fine Grained Label aware endnodes. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 6 16:53:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6087712955C for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:53:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I8nDpphaUYMb for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4220912954C for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:53:18 -0800 (PST) X-MAILFROM: X-RCPTTO: X-FROMIP: 192.168.168.120 X-SEG-Scaned: 1 X-Received: unknown,192.168.168.120,20170207084443 Received: from unknown (HELO out1.zte.com.cn) (192.168.168.120) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2017 00:44:43 -0000 X-MAILFROM: X-RCPTTO: X-FROMIP: 10.30.3.20 X-SEG-Scaned: 1 X-Received: unknown,10.30.3.20,20170207084121 Received: from unknown (HELO mse01.zte.com.cn) (10.30.3.20) by localhost with (AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 7 Feb 2017 00:41:21 -0000 Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id v170r3lA046473; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:53:03 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn) To: Susan Hares , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 5D9CECCE:E7141C00-482580C0:00040A9B; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.5.3 September 15, 2011 Message-ID: From: hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:52:53 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP6|November 21, 2013) at 2017-02-07 08:52:47, Serialize complete at 2017-02-07 08:52:47 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0004DBA1482580C0_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn v170r3lA046473 X-HQIP: 127.0.0.1 X-HQIP: 127.0.0.1 Archived-At: Cc: Jon Hudson Subject: Re: [trill] WG LC for draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (8/26 to 9/9)- extending WG LC (10/4 to 10/18)//FWD: I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37E4129569 for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:22:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nUjXH_rien8w for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3481D129568 for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:22:55 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.124.247.135; From: "Susan Hares" To: , , "'Donald Eastlake'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 20:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01d280e0$16e016e0$44a044a0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01D280B6.2E0CF510" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQINlVBSp/eUy7CVYSkwzvsiwjx44aDmk2gA Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jon Hudson' Subject: Re: [trill] WG LC for draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (8/26 to 9/9)- extending WG LC (10/4 to 10/18)//FWD: I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 01:22:57 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01D280B6.2E0CF510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fangwei:=20 =20 Thank you for uploading the new draft today. I will review the draft as = the shepherd and send you comments.=20 =20 Sue Hares=20 =20 From: hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn [mailto:hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn]=20 Sent: Monday, February 6, 2017 7:53 PM To: Susan Hares; trill@ietf.org; Donald Eastlake Cc: Jon Hudson Subject: Re: [trill] WG LC for draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (8/26 to 9/9)- extending WG LC (10/4 to 10/18)//FWD: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt =20 Hi,all=20 A new draft is updated based on the discussion with Donald to solve his comments.=20 Please check the link for the new drafts:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes/=20 Regards.=20 Fangwei.=20 >Hi, >See below answers to questions and a review of this draft. >Thanks, >Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com >On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > This begins a 2 week extension to the WG LC for > draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (10/4 to 10/18). We started the = call > during August Holidays so the WG may missed this in the email list. = The > authors are asked to indicate whether they know of the IPR relating to this > draft. I do not know of any IPR in this draft that has not already been declared. (Note there are two IPR declarations to the IETF by myself. The first is related to a patent application while the second states authoritatively that that patent application has been abandoned.) > WG participants are asked to consider: > > 1) Does this draft ready for publication? I do not think this document is ready for publication. See review below. > 2) Does the extension of the Rbridge to smart-end nodes solve the > problem of learning freshness and provide offload for the > encapsulation/decapsulation problem? Yes, if all the problems in the draft can be cleaned up, it describes a general approach that can solve these problems. > 3) Do you know of any planned implementations or deployments? > Sue Hares and Jon Hudson Comments on draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-04: On Smart-Hellos It turns out that you also need something like Smart-Hellos and a concept of ajdacency in order to support end station access to Pull Directories as well as end station hosting of Pull Directories. So draft-ietf-trill-directory-assist-mechanisms-08 specifies "TRILL ES-IS" which has Hellos and adjacency determination. A problem with Hellos is their limited capacity and that they cannot generally be fragmented. Sending the MAC addresses a Smart Endnode is handling inside Smart Hellos, as the smart-endndoes draft currently specifies, is probably fine for most servers but if there were some kind of specialized gateway or the like that was acting as a Smart Endnode, the MAC addresses (and Data Labels they are in) might not fit into one Hello PDU. TRILL ES-IS also supports local E-L1CS LSPs which provide fragmentation and plenty of room. So perhaps it should be supported to put MAC reachability information in both TRILL ES-IS Hellos and TRILL ES-IS E-L1CS LSPs.=20 [hfw] On using ESADI This draft says that ESADI can be used by Smart Endnodes. But it is not clear how ESADI works to an end station. As ESADI is currently specified, ESADI LSPs would not even be sent onto a link with end stations unless there was more than one edge RBridge on the link with the Smart End Stations and the ESADI distribution tree happens to include that link. Even if ESADI LSPs are being sent on the link, it seems that all the end station could do currently is snoop on the LSPs, which would not be a reliable distribution mechanism because it is not clear how the end station would request ESADI for a particular Data Label or how it would request retransmission of LSPs it missed -- maybe it could originate ESADI PSNPs in that case... But how does the Smart Endstation originate ESADI LSPs? If it uses the nickname the edge RBridge gives it, how does it know that LSP fragments it originates won't colide with those originated by the edge RBridge? If we can figure out how to support ESADI, that should probably go into draft-trill-ietf-directory-assist-mechanisms draft... Since ESADI is the basis of Push Directories, I suggest that this draft be changed to assume that, for directory like stuff, only Pull Directory information is available, not ESDAI or Push Directories. (How an end station can access Pull Directory information is described in draft-ietf-trill-directory-assist-mechanims.) Some other points The draft does not seem to cover the case of an edge RBridge port that supports Smart Endnodes with a link having both Smart and non-Smart end nodes where the edge RBridge port receives a native multi-destination frame from a non-Smart Endnode. In particular, as well as the usual encapsulation, it would seem that the edge RBridge always needs to send the encapsulated multi-destination frame out that same port so it will be seen by Smart Endnodes since the draft says that the Smart Endnodes will ignore the native multi-destination frame. But what about the case where there are two edge RBridges with ports on the link and the link is part of the distribution tree? The draft says that if a Smart Endnode originates a multi-destination frame, it encpsulates it to a ditribution tree and unicasts it to an edge RBridge that sends it on the distribution tree. But if that tree includes the link, then it will get sent out the port and the Smart Endnode that originated the encapuslated multi-destinaiton frame will see it -- this violates a fundamental principal of Ethernet that when you send a frame, you don't see it echoed back to you. Maybe the Smart Endnode can look as the inner and/or outer source MAC address on some of these things to decide what to listen to and what to do... But, in any case, I do not think all the cases are covered in this draft and things don't really work for mised Smart/non-Smart links in the current draft. Section 6 doesn't really read like part of a standards document. It talks about one possibility and then another. It suggests that under one option multiple edge RBridges on a link that support Smart Endnodes could cooperate to provide a psuedo-nickname to Smart Endnodes on that link to use in encapsulating. But how this would all work, including if the link partitions or rejoints, does not seem to be specified either directly in this draft or indirectly by reference to another document. As a standards track document, this draft need to clearly specify a way to do things. There can be options but all alternatives in the main flow of the document need to be specified. If there are actually options so interesting that they have to be mentioned but that are not specified, they should be relegated to an appendix or something and their descrition should explicitly say that the otion is just besing sketched out and not specified. It is good that a Smart End Node can support Fine Granied Labels (FGL) but the draft should probably say that when and how a Smart End Node decides to use an FGL to encapsulate is beyond the scope of the document. Or say there is configurable mapping from VLANs to FGLs. Or at least say something more. ----- =D7=AA=B7=A2=C8=CB =BA=FA=B7=BD=CE=B0175772/user/zte_ltd = =CA=B1=BC=E4 2017/02/07 08:44 -----=20 internet-drafts@ietf.org=20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: "trill" =20 2017/02/07 08:40=20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB ,=20 =B3=AD=CB=CD trill@ietf.org=20 =D6=F7=CC=E2 [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt =20 =09 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : TRILL Smart Endnodes Authors : Radia Perlman Fangwei Hu Huawei technology Kesava Vijaya Krupakaran Ting Liao Filename : draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2017-02-06 Abstract: This draft addresses the problem of the size and freshness of the endnode learning table in edge RBridges, by allowing endnodes to volunteer for endnode learning and encapsulation/decapsulation. Such an endnode is known as a "Smart Endnode". Only the attached edge RBridge can distinguish a "Smart Endnode" from a "normal endnode". The smart endnode uses the nickname of the attached edge RBridge, so this solution does not consume extra nicknames. The solution also enables Fine Grained Label aware endnodes. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ trill mailing list trill@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01D280B6.2E0CF510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fangwei:

 

Thank you for uploading the new draft today.  I will review the = draft as the shepherd and send you comments.

 

Sue Hares

 

From:= = hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn [mailto:hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn]
Sent: = Monday, February 6, 2017 7:53 PM
To: Susan Hares; = trill@ietf.org; Donald Eastlake
Cc: Jon = Hudson
Subject: Re: [trill] WG LC for = draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (8/26 to 9/9)- extending WG LC (10/4 to = 10/18)//FWD: [trill] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt

 

Hi,all=

A new draft = is updated based on the discussion with Donald to solve his = comments.

Please check = the link for the new drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes/ =

Regards.
Fangwei.

>Hi,

>See below answers to = questions and a review of this = draft.

>Thanks,
>Donald
=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   = +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 = USA
d3e3e3@gmail.com

>= ;On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> = wrote:
> This begins a 2 week extension to the WG LC = for
> draft-ietf-trill-smart-end-nodes (10/4 to 10/18). =   We started the call
> during August Holidays so = the WG may missed this in the email list.  The
> = authors are asked to indicate whether they know of the IPR relating to = this
> draft.

I do not know of any IPR in = this draft that has not already been
declared. (Note there = are two IPR declarations to the IETF by myself.
The first is = related to a patent application while the second = states
authoritatively that that patent application has been = abandoned.)

> WG participants are asked to = consider:
>
> 1)      Does = this draft ready for publication?

I do not think this = document is ready for publication. See review = below.

> 2)      Does the extension of = the Rbridge to smart-end nodes solve the
> problem of = learning freshness and provide offload for the
> = encapsulation/decapsulation problem?

Yes, if all the = problems in the draft can be cleaned up, it describes
a = general approach that can solve these problems.

> 3) =      Do you know of any planned implementations or = deployments?

> Sue Hares and Jon = Hudson

Comments on = draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-04:

On = Smart-Hellos
   It turns out that you also need = something like Smart-Hellos and a
concept of ajdacency in = order to support end station access to Pull
Directories as = well as end station hosting of Pull Directories. = So
draft-ietf-trill-directory-assist-mechanisms-08 specifies = "TRILL
ES-IS" which has Hellos and adjacency = determination.
    A problem with Hellos is their = limited capacity and that they
cannot generally be = fragmented. Sending the MAC addresses a Smart
Endnode is = handling inside Smart Hellos, as the smart-endndoes = draft
currently specifies, is probably fine for most servers = but if there
were some kind of specialized gateway or the = like that was acting as a
Smart Endnode, the MAC addresses = (and Data Labels they are in) might
not fit into one Hello = PDU. TRILL ES-IS also supports local E-L1CS LSPs
which = provide fragmentation and plenty of room. So perhaps it = should
be supported to put MAC reachability information in = both TRILL ES-IS
Hellos and TRILL ES-IS E-L1CS = LSPs.

[hfw]

On using ESADI
  =   This draft says that ESADI can be used by Smart Endnodes. But = it
is not clear how ESADI works to an end station. As ESADI = is currently
specified, ESADI LSPs would not even be sent = onto a link with end
stations unless there was more than one = edge RBridge on the link with
the Smart End Stations and the = ESADI distribution tree happens to
include that link. Even = if ESADI LSPs are being sent on the link, it
seems that all = the end station could do currently is snoop on the
LSPs, = which would not be a reliable distribution mechanism because = it
is not clear how the end station would request ESADI for = a particular
Data Label or how it would request = retransmission of LSPs it missed --
maybe it could originate = ESADI PSNPs in that case... But how does the
Smart = Endstation originate ESADI LSPs? If it uses the nickname = the
edge RBridge gives it, how does it know that LSP = fragments it
originates won't colide with those originated = by the edge RBridge? If
we can figure out how to support = ESADI, that should probably go = into
draft-trill-ietf-directory-assist-mechanisms = draft...
    Since ESADI is the basis of Push = Directories, I suggest that this
draft be changed to assume = that, for directory like stuff, only Pull
Directory = information is available, not ESDAI or Push = Directories.
(How an end station can access Pull Directory = information is described
in = draft-ietf-trill-directory-assist-mechanims.)

Some other = points

    The draft does not seem to cover = the case of an edge RBridge port
that supports Smart = Endnodes with a link having both Smart and
non-Smart end = nodes where the edge RBridge port receives a = native
multi-destination frame from a non-Smart Endnode. In = particular, as
well as the usual encapsulation, it would = seem that the edge RBridge
always needs to send the = encapsulated multi-destination frame out that
same port so = it will be seen by Smart Endnodes since the draft says
that = the Smart Endnodes will ignore the native = multi-destination
frame.
    But what = about the case where there are two edge RBridges with
ports = on the link and the link is part of the distribution tree? = The
draft says that if a Smart Endnode originates a = multi-destination
frame, it encpsulates it to a ditribution = tree and unicasts it to an
edge RBridge that sends it on the = distribution tree. But if that tree
includes the link, then = it will get sent out the port and the Smart
Endnode that = originated the encapuslated multi-destinaiton frame will
see = it -- this violates a fundamental principal of Ethernet that = when
you send a frame, you don't see it echoed back to you. = Maybe the Smart
Endnode can look as the inner and/or outer = source MAC address on some
of these things to decide what to = listen to and what to do... But, in
any case, I do not think = all the cases are covered in this draft and
things don't = really work for mised Smart/non-Smart links in the
current = draft.

    Section 6 doesn't really read like = part of a standards document.
It talks about one possibility = and then another. It suggests that
under one option multiple = edge RBridges on a link that support Smart
Endnodes could = cooperate to provide a psuedo-nickname to Smart
Endnodes on = that link to use in encapsulating. But how this would = all
work, including if the link partitions or rejoints, does = not seem to
be specified either directly in this draft or = indirectly by reference
to another document. As a standards = track document, this draft need to
clearly specify a way to = do things. There can be options but all
alternatives in the = main flow of the document need to be specified. If
there are = actually options so interesting that they have to = be
mentioned but that are not specified, they should be = relegated to an
appendix or something and their descrition = should explicitly say that
the otion is just besing sketched = out and not specified.

    It is good that a = Smart End Node can support Fine Granied Labels
(FGL) but the = draft should probably say that when and how a Smart End
Node = decides to use an FGL to encapsulate is beyond the scope of = the
document. Or say there is configurable mapping from = VLANs to FGLs. Or
at least say something = more.


-= ---- =D7=AA=B7=A2=C8=CB = =BA=FA=B7=BD=CE=B01= 75772/user/zte_ltd =CA=B1=BC=E4 = 2017/02/07 08:44 -----

internet-drafts@ietf.org =
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =  "trill" <trill-bounces@ietf.org>

2017/02/07 = 08:40

<i-d-announce@ietf.org>, =

 

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB

=B3=AD=CB=CD

trill@ietf.org =

=D6=F7=CC=E2

[trill] I-D = Action: = draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt





A New Internet-Draft is available = from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is = a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the = IETF.

       Title     =       : TRILL Smart Endnodes
    =    Authors         : Radia = Perlman
              =            Fangwei Hu
  =                     =    Huawei technology
        =                  Kesava = Vijaya Krupakaran
            =              Ting = Liao
                = Filename        : = draft-ietf-trill-smart-endnodes-05.txt
      =           Pages         =   : 15
              =   Date            : = 2017-02-06

Abstract:
  This draft = addresses the problem of the size and freshness of = the
  endnode learning table in edge RBridges, by = allowing endnodes to
  volunteer for endnode learning = and encapsulation/decapsulation.  Such
  an = endnode is known as a "Smart Endnode".  Only the attached = edge
  RBridge can distinguish a "Smart = Endnode" from a "normal endnode".
  The = smart endnode uses the nickname of the attached edge RBridge, = so
  this solution does not consume extra nicknames. =  The solution also
  enables Fine Grained Label = aware endnodes.


The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tr= ill-smart-endnodes/

There's also a htmlized version = available at:
<= tt>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-s= mart-endnodes-05

A diff from the previous version = is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf= -trill-smart-endnodes-05


Please note that it may take = a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the = htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by = anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

__________________________________= _____________
trill mailing list
trill@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill

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YT4NCjxicj4NCg== --=_alternative 00092835482580C0_=-- From nobody Mon Feb 6 17:48:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FCA129569; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:48:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148643210472.901.9401310214830363963.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:48:24 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill@ietf.org Subject: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd-04.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 01:48:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : TRILL Support of Point to Multipoint BFD Authors : Mingui Zhang Santosh Pallagatti Vengada Prasad Govindan Filename : draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd-04.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2017-02-06 Abstract: Point to multipoint (P2MP) BFD is designed to verify multipoint connectivity. This document specifies the support of P2MP BFD in TRILL. Similar to TRILL point-to-point BFD, BFD Control packets in TRILL P2MP BFD are transmitted using RBridge Channel message. This document updates RFC 7175 and RFC 7177. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 6 18:03:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643C31295D9; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 18:03:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148643301137.884.17318800660533925705.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 18:03:31 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill@ietf.org Subject: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-multilevel-single-nickname-03.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 02:03:31 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links (TRILL) Single Area Border RBridge Nickname for Multilevel Authors : Mingui Zhang Donald E. Eastlake Radia Perlman Margaret Cullen Hongjun Zhai Filename : draft-ietf-trill-multilevel-single-nickname-03.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2017-02-06 Abstract: A major issue in multilevel TRILL is how to manage RBridge nicknames. In this document, the area border RBridge uses a single nickname in both Level 1 and Level 2. RBridges in Level 2 must obtain unique nicknames but RBridges in different Level 1 areas may have the same nicknames. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-multilevel-single-nickname/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-multilevel-single-nickname-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trill-multilevel-single-nickname-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 7 08:57:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4199129D9B for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:57:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kzi4nZqZLWFC for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:57:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38B4B129D9A for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 08:57:32 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=70.194.2.125; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:53:04 -0500 Message-ID: <019f01d28162$a67b9220$f372b660$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A0_01D28138.BDA69B90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdKBYcaNCIttSHamSIWQlu+T7bZSDw== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Donald Eastlake' , 'Jon Hudson' Subject: [trill] WG LC on draft-ietf-p2mp-bfd-04.txt - 2/7/2016 to 2/21/2016 X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:57:33 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01D28138.BDA69B90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd. The draft can be obtained at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd/ In your comments please consider, 1) Does the support of multi-point BFD aid deployments? 2) Are the suggested additions to RFC7177 bootstrapping sufficient for this technology? 3) Do you feel this technology is ready for standardization? Sue Hares Trill Co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01D28138.BDA69B90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This = begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd.  The draft can = be obtained at:

 

http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-p2mp-bfd/

 

In your = comments please consider,

 

1)      = Does the support of multi-point BFD aid = deployments?

2)      = Are the suggested additions to RFC7177 = bootstrapping sufficient for this technology?

3)      = Do you feel this technology is ready for = standardization?

 

Sue Hares =

Trill Co-chair

 

------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01D28138.BDA69B90-- From nobody Tue Feb 21 11:26:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A91F129448; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:26:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.45.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148770521529.19079.6080188196864907194.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:26:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill@ietf.org Subject: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-05.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 19:26:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : TRILL: Appointed Forwarders Authors : Donald Eastlake Yizhou Li Mohammed Umair Ayan Banerjee Fangwei Hu Filename : draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-05.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2017-02-21 Abstract: TRILL (Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links) supports multi- access LAN (Local Area Network) links where a single link can have multiple end stations and TRILL switches attached. Where multiple TRILL switches are attached to a link, native traffic to and from end stations on that link is handled by a subset of those TRILL switches called "Appointed Forwarders" as originally specified in RFC 6325, with the intent that native traffic in each VLAN be handled by at most one TRILL switch. This document clarifies and updates the Appointed Forwarder mechanism. It updates RFC 6325, updates RFC 7177, and obsoletes RFC 6439. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 21 11:30:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A22129489; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y88U5owrpIz3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9AEA128AC9; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 203so123367367ith.0; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CdhTXG0H7lD7K5dBjij6HejAWy+JR8SZs3Ef7NWlz28=; b=QRB74GIV24tKfw9gIg+snVNxj4XtB3lCzdGInEnpaJtLTFvZnkiiiowH/hOj0oFfYT Gb7g6skdd4QHxUIzaIp2EnGI/1Mqqj6Rq0NXCGIUajy4tqLrmKWa0IRitiYTluPBkE96 IS2Fse+xc/JIJ+0BNdqf5wbw6P+4QOLTXbepLv3ZRqr2zGSTFXAFs8KgjNhGAf9En6W1 WAGiFmrk8N1k9WE2lciaaTHec+e1FBPB0qom8K6JGiHR+OANA4Z8DwoxR1LT8y/zIoKB rPrfvBzPSGr7mXjgh8hFpDo9n+GcT8gkwvEzf9Mtwra/g279xKQgsyN9zxM7JGkYcxVn xYPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CdhTXG0H7lD7K5dBjij6HejAWy+JR8SZs3Ef7NWlz28=; b=VTM+tpCCshJpx0i44xTu2OvPJx5FRViKBKAjvVEcQesWX63kPLaZbKBpmZYNCHPlcn qDhDsskFhf7BS5a1n26pHL/cD8M/haLLwchTQ2EGVItgHL71ngXwkPfoVEUcO7003a2l 6rEGYIR05FMnm8+RsSl75ePDWYDsAT+ok522UCG8KxfoHWbqtnG5Pry0MiPMuynRZOC6 NJVdfHPoNwQMKyIn0brxceP53nrinaM/Ws6Tg0hnlGQG5EAHHHwPK6aYKdE7ecXVm9nq 6sGpJ4hN+IPlScTN0urOjYfTF0/hS06sj9KfUH4NjzzODnUx43lK1/xWGrG+ExY+Ud2a qLIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39l5wQks14pvy9jaNbzvEWvw02IsKJLcBJU/XNaUFLOUhvufcd9E5YbFBgk0JVSadZMfulMPBa25jicPjA== X-Received: by 10.36.47.213 with SMTP id j204mr28424796itj.7.1487705424839; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.32.148 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148461258839.22482.5195721834167205640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "trill-chairs@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , The IESG , draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis@ietf.org, Susan Hares Subject: Re: [trill] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 19:30:35 -0000 Hi Spencer, Version -05, just posted, is intended to resolve your comments. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Donald, > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >> >> Hi Spencer, >> >> Thanks for the comments. See below >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Spencer Dawkins >> wrote: >> > >> > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >> > draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: No Objection >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > COMMENT: >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > I had trouble parsing "output it to or queue it for" (this occurs twice >> > in the sentence). >> > >> > However, it does not output it to or queue it for that link, >> > although, if appropriate (for example, the frame is multi- >> > destination), it may output it to or queue it for other links. >> >> It's kind of verbose but I believe that actual output port >> implementations typically provide for directly streaming out a packet >> even as other parts of the packet are still arriving at the switch, >> particularly in cut-through routing, or just sticking it in a queue >> for output later if the port is busy. Do you have any suggestion for >> better wording? > > > I was thinking that > > However, it does not output it to, or queue it for, that link, > although, if appropriate (for example, the frame is multi- > destination), it may output it to, or queue it for, other links. > > might be clearer. > > If the RFC Editor removes the commas, of course, you can slap me in Chicago > ;-) > > Spencer >> >> >> > I don't think the text is incorrect, just awkward. Perhaps commas would >> > help? >> > >> > In these three subsection titles, >> > >> > 3.2.1 Change Optimization One >> > >> > 3.2.2 Change Optimization Two >> > >> > 3.2.3 Settling Detection Optimization >> > >> > I found the title for 3.2.3 helpful, but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2. Is it >> > possible to come up with more descriptive titles? >> >> That's a reasonable point. Maybe >> >> 3.2.1 Optimization for Change to Lower Priority >> >> 3.2.2 Optimization for Change to Priority Only >> >> >> > I found >> > >> > For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a number of copies of a Port- >> > Shutdown messages configurable from one to three, which defaults to >> > two copies, at a configurable interval, which defaults to 20 >> > milliseconds (see Section 6.6). >> > >> > difficult to parse. Perhaps >> > >> > For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a configurable number of copies >> > of Port-Shutdown messages separated by a configurable interval. The >> > default >> > number of copies is two, although this can be configured as one copy >> > or as three copies, and the default interval is 20 milliseconds >> > (see Section 6.6). >> > >> > ? >> >> Sure, that seems like an improvement. Might also be good to say "time >> interval" instead of just "interval". >> >> Thanks, >> Donald >> =============================== >> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA >> d3e3e3@gmail.com > > From nobody Tue Feb 21 11:32:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D96129489; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:32:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lG7-mOXAo0yC; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40053129442; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 203so123435551ith.0; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:32:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ISeOeLRH8+q/m5kQ+lT4yWjXHKHC7r5qzUB/5qv0iAk=; b=hfjN5lJEEnLzCBSt6/YotrJuAdhLNQ/h9jGj9I5ZvL+pt6Yrx3YILzegb503Ti+sjk AawSszQf2OvxRDSAKdwCXUe/RAnICn3YOBFc6W0a1C4EgwrPkifsHX4TBio59HGXjJfN aiULzx/wtFF47GGJRgYQkuNKPqzir6ioWmGIIeVTe5/GtMvLubVc8gdz8GviJhocK6iY WwBu8weAHw8Gn7ZGya3y2jII2/Ptmg3Z4p8MdtLFVQO8cvSt+e2rbKYJ7162GpQERNna vdPnpRxx9yntwtGwG4azlt8TNlRp9d2tP3GxF+9ddFSKWJWbzGZPrMiQTgttEl3KuXXj mnIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ISeOeLRH8+q/m5kQ+lT4yWjXHKHC7r5qzUB/5qv0iAk=; b=rNz9GAhOa9/UmAKCCS7w38q5bFt8ScVuls5z+xLmz55bIvBqM7FBHvCdmFnQsXSvEl M48zcJ3fV+ICOQ/n10Bqd0rRBpdxNFZfdhTjWsbrfF7B06qoSUEDZhAmAq8bbQfeAkqf iawvmXXhVtJ/PTfMtnEOG8CZpgMFKp6ucsgRsRpz77M5vtEnIkW2WJg1xev6q8GdJWgW vpJkm2haollGh7llLFs+PIunZbKivOoP3gXTJqVLySI6jEa6O+YgiPGbsKx8VJZEeF3U kpc/1lSiih5tdAOr8N2F8OAudbkEGYLlp0X8eX3irNRgKRfiHLcaTb4V3wlQZNJS8Pyd 2XeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lvGv8ArQpxwK3ghbknqU/imFPwSJF1gLN6Y7n0R4xsFeFupvdLeopwCArD+9I1iksP227EsQ2+JDkW8w== X-Received: by 10.107.19.8 with SMTP id b8mr19801191ioj.16.1487705526637; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:32:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.32.148 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:31:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <148482982098.10352.9816816043381207445.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <148482982098.10352.9816816043381207445.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:31:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "trill-chairs@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , The IESG , draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis@ietf.org, Susan Hares Subject: Re: [trill] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 19:32:08 -0000 Hi Stephen, On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: No Objection > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - section 6: is port-shutdown a new potential DoS vector? > Shouldn't that be noted here and/or in section 9? I agree, The version -05 just posted notes this. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com From nobody Tue Feb 21 11:33:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF88129489; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K92aZRqQnJ7H; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x22c.google.com (mail-it0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1082129442; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id y135so66132420itc.1; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OHOyXDegnHjhjsb+NCpPhcXRm3lelPJEoj9HltTXaq0=; b=hnk6VW2lcnaYSZ4KpzgxOhICHS6RoIMR/ni7b/+jQQLbkm3wkrxHYbNPHjnlKRVMAu wkeb2FMNuDBOeMI9shn9IRVOCkWaJQgZaElPJqqF9SAHnaSjuXjjt9bH+hIg79BR/O5j ulLVSNSmEEFtPlqZnnIvO7wPAY+3ksEV95xkYwT7tv+4Ku9dxsl+z3wQNXUqfpakrZJA An3fNE5ePLle5H8JmJxW71JSXX7ygqvsp/HjIiQNKay1mIWkJLytl96cXBfX+9Ad8l2p GF6AjHAoGVcM67G2oTD11r7cTwXqFf1UpOF0FmsytVt0DdCyFG0S/Nm00332/wNqzZft Nicw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OHOyXDegnHjhjsb+NCpPhcXRm3lelPJEoj9HltTXaq0=; b=InC+g6rzvhMyai8pFYO8Q8XhwUVavKRTg1kG1/MSS5daTzAYV/oRpPXBOL1Nwu5ZZ8 WrL7brPIubFvsEaLYcTYwEJbb4lqNzw4PYs48Bm00pA33IiccAU4jKKB6ZY8GrWQAQqI 9PXi0ocm0a7LRmZwzlYH0HtY+n1lOIHRNQnhTCE2DdstWs9hP/IKNhAtSHnyvWx5u5JI I+AhWBHMw2Wc0BX9tsMY+JA8TDojSdqsHRpqsTrtQPOjUJAzUnpepBdBlCE5MBPQEbfZ VysHsIndEfzPFI0H/CY/+xfoVz7lb84o3B5hlMGeaoXRrhZ6yjZyBZCFWqtmxpZ7/vaw c/EQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39kAcjHHivYD475UQg3VVldH8lhs4TmqSVLMWFjbdczK1ne6bwurCZbLQ83Ilg8yNd1/XEFiDHq4ipSmWA== X-Received: by 10.36.47.213 with SMTP id j204mr28439571itj.7.1487705603161; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.32.148 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:33:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148477153647.2298.16876633792182475280.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:33:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "trill-chairs@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis@ietf.org" , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [trill] Alvaro Retana's Discuss on draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 19:33:25 -0000 Hi Alvaro, On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:18 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Donald: > > Hi! > > I am not concerned about the case you described below: where the source a= nd > destination are attached to the same switch. Nor am I concerned about > transit TRILL data packets. OK. I guess I was mislead by your reference to the IS-IS standard that a router in overload "shall not" be considered for transit. I thought that your comment had to do with building shortest cost paths which is not particularly relevant here. > I am concerned about the case where the other end stations are not attach= ed > to any of the local switches, but are somewhere else in the campus (or th= e > mixed case where some of the other end stations are attached to an > overloaded switch, but others are elsewhere). In that case, if I am not > missing anything, the appointed forwarder for the local link will accept = the > native frame and will have to send a TRILL Data Packet across the campus = =E2=80=93 > the information to do that may not be available if the switch is overload= ed. Yes. The case you cite is one where the designated router really, as the draft says, SHOULD NOT appoint the router in overload as appointed forwarder. (Note that if it violates this "SHOULD NOT" the appointed forwarder becomes, as far as IS-IS routing is concerned, a source and sink, not a transit node.) But, in any case, it may be that the designated router on the link is the only router on the link and is in overload or it may be that all the routers on the link are in overloaded or it may be the case I cite where the best routed to appointer forwarder for VLAN-x is one that is in overload because all the end stations in VLAN-x are attached to that router. So there are plenty of cases where either it is a good idea or is unavoidable to appoint a router in overload as the appointed forwarder for some VLAN. You ask for the reason the draft says "SHOULD NOT" rather than "MUST NOT" and that's the reason. I can make some changes to Section 2.4 to try to clarify this. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > Thanks! > Alvaro. > > > > On 1/18/17, 11:43 PM, "Donald Eastlake" wrote: > > > > Hi Alvaro, > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: > > Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Section 2.4 (Overload and Appointed Forwarders) talks about potential > > Appointed Forwarders which are overloaded. In IS-IS, a node with the > > overload bit set "shall not" (ISO 10589) be considered for transit. > > However, the use of "SHOULD NOT appoint an RBridge in overload" and > > "SHOULD re-assign VLANs from the overloaded RBridge" leaves a potential > > hole in the proper forwarding of TRILL data packers. Why aren't MUST > > NOT/MUST used? Is there something in the specific use of IS-IS by TRILL > > that I am missing? > > > > The Appointed Forwarder function has to do with accepting frames from > > end stations for ingress and egressing frames to end stations. It does > > not have anything to do with TRILL Data packet transit routing. > > > > Consider the following case: two TRILL switches (RBridges) RB1 and RB2 > > are connected by a link L1 that also has end stations on it. The end > > stations are all in VLAN X. There are other end stations in VLAN X in > > the TRILL campus not on L1 but all of these other end stations are > > directly connected to RB2. RB2 is in overload. > > > > Under these circumstances, RB2 should be the Appointed Forwarder for > > VLAN X as that way traffic between all of the VLAN X end stations can > > be forwarded by RB2 without any IS-IS routing at all. RB2 will just > > be, in effect, forwarding native frames between RB2 ports (although, > > for consistency, the TRILL specifications say that RB2 ingresses this > > VLAN X traffic by encapsulating it into a TRILL Data frame, and then > > notices it is destined for an end station on a local port, immediately > > decapsulates it, and sends it out that port). > > > > I think this should be an easy DISCUSS to clear; either point to the > > piece I'm missing, or don't use an overloaded node. > > > > Thanks, > > Donald > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > > d3e3e3@gmail.com > > From nobody Tue Feb 21 13:42:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F85129CF2; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9vAKntZLeerS; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x235.google.com (mail-yb0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA9B41296FC; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x235.google.com with SMTP id n76so17587662ybg.3; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q0gSVQgU6VLP9VzvwJ5mm8voHTBpPrePL8aSp3sXJRY=; b=R8s3g5BLnvTWKwdTwOAxpKuMw3EqMiPdJAGlM/z21MFDVG+6R1eNrSBfZzSj/tgDdA PMztzp+BUn0YU2AcSx8QMMn+t4ZFZCkbBOjZRrN/htqGKLqDQvgivVnsLu0Fx7f+678K McdUotzcsPOt34btvxNx1XMqtVAVex7o8I/vCskFfccBX7YkbkYaFnKt8P3E+ws/AKy7 dNJjEVuNduF4TY3YEeLAZvpLmG/g9tdC2WVRjPNcr6NbZVGVfC468vy5bVT/xYjCEaZh qiYyQh8Kl/DTh2vVki5XC8i6v4yrpz0rXx1iOaeNtfUWxcswJAAUVGaeUcSQIVuQwm1a kQdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q0gSVQgU6VLP9VzvwJ5mm8voHTBpPrePL8aSp3sXJRY=; b=g56r34IxLjun6k0FbdDMHr1IS12iDyEE0DPuBiKG6dMtLs56uZwZvFCDXnbQWJaLSa b8mCAps2e3lq8SucyZ2ZXlaLRmNeVUXpY/iBzhQ9Tp3XDak24VPJ3VWVrzWu2koDNxpb /pNvyRcJCfF+hPFjga+NAxbQu7MB1KEamOJEbPZPmQ6RNQ9NfCeLZqg/F//ekNZ6MLfl cci2v9Ywaget/fBnj1qPl9XagStq/WgspSOUrfanzZ2sllL47W2+tDy95KCV7SwIBQMU sqBYdDnDfSGgWA4MziA5qzEUep9TJKcuoqZJ/SU8pnS2VTXDFEdIVSRn100Ngp63TKmE TStQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39k8+tnOvOF7+LR+5WFZlmnpbIl2D4e8so54XM15WDFEuQG1e1LVs+U3Wpy6gS1cE4rQWdRHzg6wJdZanQ== X-Received: by 10.37.108.137 with SMTP id h131mr21569309ybc.12.1487713372987; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.234.9 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.234.9 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:42:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148461258839.22482.5195721834167205640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 15:42:52 -0600 Message-ID: To: Donald Eastlake Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148997e1fee7c05491143f1 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis@ietf.org, "trill-chairs@ietf.org" , iesg@ietf.org, Susan Hares , trill@ietf.org Subject: Re: [trill] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 21:42:55 -0000 --001a1148997e1fee7c05491143f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, Donald, On Feb 21, 2017 13:30, "Donald Eastlake" wrote: Hi Spencer, Version -05, just posted, is intended to resolve your comments. Thanks for that. Spencer Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Donald, > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >> >> Hi Spencer, >> >> Thanks for the comments. See below >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Spencer Dawkins >> wrote: >> > >> > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >> > draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: No Objection >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > COMMENT: >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > I had trouble parsing "output it to or queue it for" (this occurs twice >> > in the sentence). >> > >> > However, it does not output it to or queue it for that link, >> > although, if appropriate (for example, the frame is multi- >> > destination), it may output it to or queue it for other links. >> >> It's kind of verbose but I believe that actual output port >> implementations typically provide for directly streaming out a packet >> even as other parts of the packet are still arriving at the switch, >> particularly in cut-through routing, or just sticking it in a queue >> for output later if the port is busy. Do you have any suggestion for >> better wording? > > > I was thinking that > > However, it does not output it to, or queue it for, that link, > although, if appropriate (for example, the frame is multi- > destination), it may output it to, or queue it for, other links. > > might be clearer. > > If the RFC Editor removes the commas, of course, you can slap me in Chicago > ;-) > > Spencer >> >> >> > I don't think the text is incorrect, just awkward. Perhaps commas would >> > help? >> > >> > In these three subsection titles, >> > >> > 3.2.1 Change Optimization One >> > >> > 3.2.2 Change Optimization Two >> > >> > 3.2.3 Settling Detection Optimization >> > >> > I found the title for 3.2.3 helpful, but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2. Is it >> > possible to come up with more descriptive titles? >> >> That's a reasonable point. Maybe >> >> 3.2.1 Optimization for Change to Lower Priority >> >> 3.2.2 Optimization for Change to Priority Only >> >> >> > I found >> > >> > For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a number of copies of a Port- >> > Shutdown messages configurable from one to three, which defaults to >> > two copies, at a configurable interval, which defaults to 20 >> > milliseconds (see Section 6.6). >> > >> > difficult to parse. Perhaps >> > >> > For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a configurable number of copies >> > of Port-Shutdown messages separated by a configurable interval. The >> > default >> > number of copies is two, although this can be configured as one copy >> > or as three copies, and the default interval is 20 milliseconds >> > (see Section 6.6). >> > >> > ? >> >> Sure, that seems like an improvement. Might also be good to say "time >> interval" instead of just "interval". >> >> Thanks, >> Donald >> =============================== >> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA >> d3e3e3@gmail.com > > --001a1148997e1fee7c05491143f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Donald,

On Feb 21, 2017 13:30, "Donald Eastlake" <= ;d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Spencer,

Version -05, just posted, is intended to resolve your comments.

Thanks= for that.

Spencer
=


Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A0155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com


On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Spencer = Dawkins at IETF
<spencerdawkins.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Donald,
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Spencer,
>>
>> Thanks for the comments. See below
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Spencer Dawkins
>> <spencerdawkin= s.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for=
>> > draft-ietf-trill-rfc6439bis-04: No Objection
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------= --------------
>> > COMMENT:
>> > --------------------------------------------------------= --------------
>> >
>> > I had trouble parsing "output it to or queue it for"= ; (this occurs twice
>> > in the sentence).
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, it does not output it to or queue it fo= r that link,
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 although, if appropriate (for example, the frame= is multi-
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination), it may output it to or queue it fo= r other links.
>>
>> It's kind of verbose but I believe that actual output port
>> implementations typically provide for directly streaming out a pac= ket
>> even as other parts of the packet are still arriving at the switch= ,
>> particularly in cut-through routing, or just sticking it in a queu= e
>> for output later if the port is busy. Do you have any suggestion f= or
>> better wording?
>
>
> I was thinking that
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, it does not output it to, or queue it for,= that link,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0although, if appropriate (for example, the frame is= multi-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination), it may output it to, or queue it for, other= links.
>
> might be clearer.
>
> If the RFC Editor removes the commas, of course, you can slap me in Ch= icago
> ;-)
>
> Spencer
>>
>>
>> > I don't think the text is incorrect, just awkward. Perhap= s commas would
>> > help?
>> >
>> > In these three subsection titles,
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.2.1 Change Optimization One
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.2.2 Change Optimization Two
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.2.3 Settling Detection Optimization
>> >
>> > I found the title for 3.2.3 helpful, but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2. = Is it
>> > possible to come up with more descriptive titles?
>>
>> That's a reasonable point. Maybe
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.2.1 Optimization for Change to Lower Priority
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.2.2 Optimization for Change to Priority Only
>>
>>
>> > I found
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a number of= copies of a Port-
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shutdown messages configurable from one to three= , which defaults to
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 two copies, at a configurable interval, which de= faults to 20
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 milliseconds (see Section 6.6).
>> >
>> > difficult to parse. Perhaps
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For robustness, a TRILL switch sends a configura= ble number of copies
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of Port-Shutdown messages separated by a configu= rable interval. The
>> > default
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 number of copies is two, although this can be co= nfigured as one copy
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or as three copies, and the default interval is = 20 milliseconds
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (see Section 6.6).
>> >
>> > ?
>>
>> Sure, that seems like an improvement. Might also be good to say &q= uot;time
>> interval" instead of just "interval".
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Donald
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>=C2=A0 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1-508-333-2270 (cell) >>=C2=A0 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
>>=C2=A0 d3e3e3@gmail.com
>
>

--001a1148997e1fee7c05491143f1-- From nobody Sun Feb 26 18:22:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953B4129A84 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L1RnK6p-Xw_n for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EA3E129610 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id u188so77618290qkc.2 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Lj7KT+8whSVzcNdC18BQlZMR529UZIy92PJ67N1/Wcg=; b=bUtYigEypxnLi5XKIQddggsRhWh9/li8SU1a5y9NuiFqog7TYZndiRqA2KMKKLzCZe +9ktNJHFJZM8tP8Pqo7wygP+81fE+TGY4FqowDEHgQTH7pTYNLoDJ9oUNov2gEKDQk08 7Gckpq975cFJjjHxHeB5ASVJwZHpcbYV5UzglzGXM0GzQdCh525AYFncbdTZD+8hCyNU kYBGg4F1nqP0v9v+pl3h84iXIfhseYGUP2e9henzGEytoRT6NTw5UhaSSxtcKt0TLuRm aAV2fu1dTt1Ihg3pvK160CHRj6RyvHduiVve84QnXrGHfovutGWWNPKLGWt0KGptswe0 U39Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Lj7KT+8whSVzcNdC18BQlZMR529UZIy92PJ67N1/Wcg=; b=UMl/a7NkNKYUYVZh5alwfKq0Qe5vh9isjOmPfISWQ9Bbi5CvK8u41PsKnA6Mb0IcNb hFqT8nBVe0kh7Hjs5drmq4zq/XiciirH+hEI8AmzQ3Gb4Cx7AOYNuuQm2zQApaBJib8b VIDzwkIT7HuQ2LwwkvrJbjkobwNsDczOObjD3gQTjA1EG/7FmHFPSJAlgE05IM7zaBAZ wKRkS+/QW0CFFBdmLEfV+AXXUPNPs+NYfbwcPbgJPZjLJYvdARbBV7/QnSta3Rdebh71 q3T1grwLlXHDJ3LplInMo6gAt1HKXyYWlM6csIwQ6YYCgdV8s1PmesXRwLmE6xYEDcg9 abgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mECKr1NmfrNu4ff9Ped7DFCK1SmStWtQ9AKZ3YpScUZRSBlLzFA/kQqmxJz7w1INNqE3u+kKd8rqyNiQ== X-Received: by 10.200.55.181 with SMTP id d50mr14850159qtc.140.1488162159553; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.34.234 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: R Parameswaran Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:22:39 -0800 Message-ID: To: Donald Eastlake Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "trill@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [trill] Parent node shift draft - relationship to resilient trees draft. X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 02:22:41 -0000 Hi Donald, Please see inline: On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > Hi Ramkumar, > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:50 AM, R Parameswaran > wrote: >> >> With regard to draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01, this email tries to >> answer the question posed at the mike at IETF 97 Trill meeting - how does >> this draft relate to draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees? >> >> This is examined below from two different considerations - overlap and >> extensibility. >> >> In summary, there is not much direct functional overlap between the two drafts >> that I can see, and draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01.txt could possibly be >> extended to handle backup DT calculation for node failure scenarios. Details >> of these are broken out below: >> >> A. Considerations for Overlap: >> >> At a high level, draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees relates to link >> protection, and >> defines the notion of a primary distribution tree (DT) and a backup >> distribution tree, >> where these trees are intentionally kept link disjoint to the extent possible, >> and the backup tree is pre-programmed in the hardware, and activated upon >> failure of the primary distribution tree. > > I believe that is correct. > >> draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees considers the following algorithmic approaches >> to the building the backup distribution tree: >> >> 1. Pure operator config for links on the backup DT/manual generation of >> affinity sub-TLV - this is very tedious and unlikely to scale or be >> implemented >> in practice, and hence is disregarded in the analysis here. >> >> 2. Section 3.2.1.1a: Use of MRT algorithms (which will produce conjugate trees - >> link disjoint trees with roots for primary and backup trees that >> are coincident on the same physical rBridge). >> >> 3. Section 3.2.1.1b: Once the primary DT is constructed, the links used in the >> primary DT are additively cost re-weighted, and a second SPF is run to >> derive the links comprising the backup DT. Affinity sub-TLV is used to >> mark links on the back-up DT which are not also on the primary DT. This >> approach can handle conjugate trees as well as non-conjugate trees (link >> disjoint trees that are rooted at different physical nodes). >> >> 4. Section 3.2.2: A variation on the section 3.2.1.1b approach, but without >> affinity sub-TLV advertisement. Once the primary DT is constructed, costs >> for links on the primary DT are multiplied by a fixed multiplier to prevent >> them from being selected in a subsequent SPF run, unless there >> is no other choice, and the subsequent SPF yields links on the backup DT. >> >> All of the approaches above yield maximally link disjoint trees, when applied >> as prescribed. >> >> Approach 4 above does not seem to use affinity sub-TLVs and instead seems to >> depend upon a network wide agreement on the alternative tree computation >> algorithm being used. >> >> Approaches 2 and 3 uses affinity sub-TLV on the backup DT, for links that are >> not already on the primary DT. The primary DT does not appear to use affinity >> sub-TLVs. Additionally, from an end-to-end perspective the backup DT comes >> into picture when the primary DT fails (this is effectively true even in the >> 1+1 protection mechanism and in the local protection case), and then again, >> only until the primary DT is recalculated. Once the primary DT is >> recalculated, the backup DT is recalculated as well, and can change >> corresponding to the new >> primary DT. >> >> draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees cannot directly prevent/mitigate a >> parent node shift >> on the primary DT at a given parent node, and while usage of the affinity >> sub-TLV on the backup DT might confer a parent affinity on some nodes >> on the backup DT, these are not necessarily the nodes on which the >> network operator >> may want/prefer an explicit parent affinity. Further, the backup DT is >> only used on >> a transient basis, from a forwarding perspective. >> >> Given the above, I don't see much of a functional overlap between >> draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees, and the draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01 >> draft. > > OK. > >> The two drafts can probably co-exist (personal opinion) as they have different >> goals, and solve different problems. Maybe its good to have some text in one >> of them, explaining the relationship to the other. > > Since trill-resilient-trees is much further along in the process, it > might be better to add any such text to trill-parent-selection. > [RP]: Thanks for the prior review and questions - I have picked this up, I have added text (largely derived from this email thread) under section 7 with an upload, posted as draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-02. regards, Ramkumar >> B. Extensibility considerations: >> >> As called out in section 3, draft-ietf-trill-resilient-trees focuses on link >> protection. However, the draft alludes to the possibility of using backup DTs >> for node protection, but considers it out of scope, while calling out some >> problems with doing so. >> >> On the other hand, draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01 does not explicitly >> define the notion of a backup DT, and focuses on protecting parent child >> relationships on the primary DT, but possibly can be extended to define the >> notion of a backup DT for node protection. >> >> In draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01, if a sibling of the configured parent >> node (the node on which child affinity was explicitly configured) goes down, >> there is not much point in computing the backup DT corresponding to the downed >> node, because the forwarding state on the configured parent, and on other >> nodes in the network, will not change because of the already imposed affinity >> sub-TLV, binding the child nodes listed in the affinity sub-TLV to the parent >> originating the affinity sub-TLV, regardless of the presence or absence of the >> sibling node. >> >> But, implementations may need to take care to not disturb the hardware >> programming already in place, while the tree computation reconverges to >> (nearly) the same outcome as the prior computed tree, when the sibling >> node goes down. >> >> However, in the case where the parent node on which child affinity was >> configured goes down, it makes sense to configure a back-up DT with simply the >> Trill default parent selection rules, but with the tree calculation now >> excluding the configured parent node with the child affinity. The >> backup DT can be >> pre-programmed, and when the configured parent node is seen to go down, >> its affinity sub-TLVs can be discarded, and hardware programming can switch to >> forwarding with the backup DT state. >> >> There are other considerations that need to be thought through (e.g >> what if any other node (not parent, not sibling) goes down - do we >> need a backup tree?) , but >> draft-rp-trill-parent-selection-01 can possibly be extended in this >> direction if there >> is interest in pursuing this further. In any case, feedback is welcome. > > Those are some interesting ideas. We could probably work on the > after/if the draft is adopted by the WG. > > Thanks, > Donald > =============================== > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > >> thanks, >> Ramkumar From nobody Mon Feb 27 07:44:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F8E12A17A; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 07:44:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SVOzYnog7ug7; 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Malis" Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:42:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1141abfc9ad759054985c52b Archived-At: Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [trill] [RTG-DIR] Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02 X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:43:01 -0000 --001a1141abfc9ad759054985c52b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve got some comments on Matthew=E2=80=99s review, inline. On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) < matthew.bocci@nokia.com> wrote: > Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport- > over-mpls-02 > > > > Hi, > > > > I have been assigned the QA reviewer for this draft. The general > guidelines for QA reviews > > can be found at: > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/rtg/wiki/RtgDirDocQa > > > > These state: > > > > "When reviewing a draft at WG Adoption, the QA Reviewer should > > determine whether the draft is readable, understandable, makes sense > > and is a good start for a WG draft. Any issues the QA Reviewer finds > > are written down, sent to the mailing list and discussed for future > > versions" > > > > Here is my review of this draft: > > > > ** Summary. > > Generally, the draft is well written - thank you. I have a few minor > comments below, > > mostly related to the relationship between TRILL over MPLS and establishe= d > VPLS mechanisms. > > > > ** Is the draft readable? > > > > Yes. There are a few minor grammatical errors and it would help if the > draft was proof-read > > to weed-out these. An example is: > > Abstract > > "..that are separated by MPLS provider network." > > s/by MPLS/by an MPLS > > > > > > ** Is the draft understandable? > > > > Yes, provided the reader is familiar with TRILL, MPLS and VPLS. > > > > ** Does it make sense? > > I think it is mostly clear, but I have a few comments, as follows: > > > > Section 3.4. MPLS encapsulation for VPLS model > > > > "Use of VPLS [RFC4762] to interconnect TRILL sites requires no changes to > > a VPLS implementation, in particular the use of Ethernet pseudowires > > between VPLS PEs. A VPLS PE receives normal Ethernet frames from an > > RBridge (i.e., CE) and is not aware that the CE is an RBridge device. As > > a result, an MPLS-encapsulated TRILL packet within the MPLS network will > > use the format illustrated in Appendix A of [RFC7173]." > > > > It doesn't look like the encapsulation shown in Appendix A of > > RFC7173 takes account of the case where PBB VPLS [RFC7041] is used in the > provider's > > MPLS network, but I would have thought this would still be a valid VPLS > type to transport > > TRILL. It might be worth qualifying your reference with some text to stat= e > that > > this is just an example in the non-PBB case. > Andy: As the author of this paragraph, I agree with Matthew=E2=80=99s comme= nt. We can change the last sentence to say: "As an example, an MPLS-encapsulated TRILL packet within the MPLS network will use the format illustrated in Appendix A of [RFC7173] for the non-PBB case, or in the PBB case, with the additional header fields illustrated in [RFC7041]." > > Section 4.1.1: > > "TIR devices are a superset of the VPLS-PE devices defined in [RFC4026] > with the > > additional functionality of TRILL." > > Is this really true? Later you state that TIRs use PPP PWs, not the > Ethernet PWs used in > > VPLS. It is also not clear if TRILL needs some of the LDP or BGP signalin= g > extensions > > used for VPLS. Wouldn't it be cleaner just to define a TIR as a new kind > of PE? > Andy: I also agree with this comment. > > > Section 6. VPTS Model Versus VPLS Model > > "An issue with the above rule is that if a pseudowire between PEs fails, > > frames will not get forwarded between the PEs where pseudowire went > > down." > > > > I think this is only true for a simple full mesh VPLS where there are not > other protection > > mechanisms. I am not sure this is applicable to H-VPLS with PW redundancy= , > for example, > > which I think is likely to be a widespread deployment case for the VPLS > model of TRILL > > over MPLS. > Andy: I agree. In addition, see section 4.4 of RFC 4742, which allows the use of spanning tree in a VPLS network to provide redundancy in the case of a failure in the VPLS. > > Best regards > > Matthew > Cheers, Andy --001a1141abfc9ad759054985c52b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=E2=80=99ve got some comments on Matthew=E2=80=99s review= , inline.

On Mon, = Feb 27, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <= ;matthew.bocci= @nokia.com> wrote:

Routing Area Director= ate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02=

=C2=A0<= /span>

Hi,

=C2=A0<= /span>

I have been assigned = the QA reviewer for this draft. The general guidelines for QA reviews

can be found at:

https://trac.ietf.= org/trac/rtg/wiki/RtgDirDocQa

=C2=A0<= /span>

These state:

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0 "When rev= iewing a draft at WG Adoption, the QA Reviewer should<= /p>

=C2=A0 determine whet= her the draft is readable, understandable, makes sense=

=C2=A0 and is a good = start for a WG draft. Any issues the QA Reviewer finds=

=C2=A0 are written do= wn, sent to the mailing list and discussed for future<= /p>

=C2=A0 versions"=

=C2=A0<= /span>

Here is my review of = this draft:

=C2=A0<= /span>

** Summary.=

Generally, the draft = is well written - thank you. I have a few minor comments below,

mostly related to the= relationship between TRILL over MPLS and established VPLS mechanisms.

=C2=A0<= /span>

** Is the draft reada= ble?

=C2=A0<= /span>

Yes. There are a few = minor grammatical errors and it would help if the draft was proof-read

to weed-out these. An= example is:

Abstract

"..that are sepa= rated by MPLS provider network."

s/by MPLS/by an MPLS<= u>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

** Is the draft under= standable?

=C2=A0<= /span>

Yes, provided the rea= der is familiar with TRILL, MPLS and VPLS.

=C2=A0<= /span>

** Does it make sense= ?

I think it is mostly = clear, but I have a few comments, as follows:

=C2=A0<= /span>

Section 3.4. MPLS enc= apsulation for VPLS model

=C2=A0<= /span>

"Use of VPLS [RF= C4762] to interconnect TRILL sites requires no changes to

a VPLS implementation= , in particular the use of Ethernet pseudowires

between VPLS PEs. A V= PLS PE receives normal Ethernet frames from an

RBridge (i.e., CE) an= d is not aware that the CE is an RBridge device. As

a result, an MPLS-enc= apsulated TRILL packet within the MPLS network will

use the format illust= rated in Appendix A of [RFC7173]."

=C2=A0<= /span>

It doesn't look l= ike the encapsulation shown in Appendix A of

RFC7173 takes account= of the case where PBB VPLS [RFC7041] is used in the provider's

MPLS network, but I w= ould have thought this would still be a valid VPLS type to transport

TRILL. It might be wo= rth qualifying your reference with some text to state that

this is just an examp= le in the non-PBB case.


<= div>Andy: As the author of this paragraph, I agree with Matthew=E2=80=99s c= omment. We can change the last sentence to say:

"As an example, an MPLS-encapsulated TRILL packet within the MPLS n= etwork will
use the format illustrated in Appendix A of [RFC7173]= for the non-PBB case, or
in the PBB case, with the additio= nal header fields illustrated in [RFC7041]."

=C2=A0<= /span>

Section 4.1.1:=

"TIR devices are= a superset of the VPLS-PE devices defined in [RFC4026] with the

additional functional= ity of TRILL."

Is this really true? = Later you state that TIRs use PPP PWs, not the Ethernet PWs used in

VPLS. It is also not = clear if TRILL needs some of the LDP or BGP signaling extensions

used for VPLS. Wouldn= 't it be cleaner just to define a TIR as a new kind of PE?


Andy: I also agree with this com= ment.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

Section 6. VPTS Model= Versus VPLS Model

"An issue with t= he above rule is that if a pseudowire between PEs fails,

frames will not get f= orwarded between the PEs where pseudowire went

down."=

=C2=A0<= /span>

I think this is only = true for a simple full mesh VPLS where there are not other protection

mechanisms. I am not = sure this is applicable to H-VPLS with PW redundancy, for example,

which I think is like= ly to be a widespread deployment case for the VPLS model of TRILL

over MPLS.

=

Andy: I agree. In addition, se= e section 4.4 of RFC 4742, which allows the use of spanning tree in a VPLS = network to provide redundancy in the case of a failure in the VPLS.


=

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0Best regards

=

=C2=A0Matthew<= /p>


Cheers,
=
Andy
=C2=A0

--001a1141abfc9ad759054985c52b-- From nobody Tue Feb 28 23:05:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: trill@ietf.org Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B90129413; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 23:05:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148835193840.29539.11077198494502931162.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 23:05:38 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: trill@ietf.org Subject: [trill] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trill-dci-02.txt X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 07:05:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links of the IETF. Title : Data Center Interconnect using TRILL Authors : Mohammed Umair Kingston Smiler Selvaraj Shaji Ravindranathan Lucy Yong Donald E. Eastlake 3rd Filename : draft-ietf-trill-dci-02.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2017-02-28 Abstract: This document describes a TRILL based Data Center Interconnect (DCI) solution. TRILL is used inside a data center for providing intra-data center switching optimally by utilizing multiple links. This draft described a way to use TRILL to extend a network across different data center via MPLS service provider network using Virtual TRILL Service/Switch Domain (VTSD) as described in draft [VTSD]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trill-dci/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trill-dci-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trill-dci-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/