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Fri, 1 Nov 2019 10:50:47 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1E2451F6-553A-48A7-A97D-20245A9AD4FF@arm.com> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 10:50:49 +0100 Cc: Core WG mailing list X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594294648.18077-eaa962edbca44d7615a439110257961e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00687FA9-FFCD-4E10-AC2F-7BB06E00F48E@tzi.org> References: <157237477119.11043.4363082013315464920@ietfa.amsl.com> <27A826D9-5F28-4044-BE61-E7CD1C05EA90@arm.com> <781AE8D3-761F-461E-A727-C918391E158D@tzi.org> <1E2451F6-553A-48A7-A97D-20245A9AD4FF@arm.com> To: Thomas Fossati X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Chairs' review of draft-ietf-core-stateless-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 09:50:51 -0000 On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:27, Thomas Fossati wrote: >=20 >> the purist in me >> isn=E2=80=99t thrilled about using a BCP 14 keyword. >=20 > Correct. I was pondering over a "strongly recommends" instead, but = it's > probably not the right thing to say either. I think it is a =E2=80=9Chighly recommended=E2=80=9D (use this if you = don=E2=80=99t know what to use, you can=E2=80=99t really go wrong with = it) and not a =E2=80=9Cstrongly recommended=E2=80=9D (don=E2=80=99t dare = to use something else unless you have a really good reason). BCP14 = RECOMMENDED is more of the latter kind. At some point we MAY WISH TO = [1] identify a separate set of keywords for implementation advice. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6919#section-6 From nobody Fri Nov 1 04:49:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C15120118 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 04:49:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PImV_hbbuBmT for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 04:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8A2912010E for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 04:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CBEC46D30; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:49:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E12536; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:49:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:6d78:bd47:b07:7e5c]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53E1B17B; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:49:21 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 32370 invoked by uid 1000); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:49:18 -0000 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:49:18 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Core WG mailing list Message-ID: <20191101114918.GB26495@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <20191031133656.GA17667@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <009101d58ff6$22d85f70$68891e50$@augustcellars.com> <20191031145048.GB25593@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <00a001d58fff$e7d9f0f0$b78dd2d0$@augustcellars.com> <20191031153842.GD25593@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <0AC425A1-E3C7-4AF5-820E-AF4B24E687AF@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ftEhullJWpWg/VHq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0AC425A1-E3C7-4AF5-820E-AF4B24E687AF@tzi.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and Request-Tag X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:49:29 -0000 --ftEhullJWpWg/VHq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 05:59:11PM +0100, Carsten Bormann wrote: > I don=E2=80=99t understand how Request-Tag became necessary for Block2. > For me that is a Block1-only addition. It is intended for Block1, but spills into the Block2 phase due to RFC7959 Section 2.7's description of the block-2-phase requests as "similar to the requests in the Block1 phase [without] the Block1 Options and [including] a Block2 request option with non-zero NUM". The Block1 operation may have created state on the server, and the later requests may be only accessible if the block-matching-relevant options of the Block2-phase requests are the same as the earlier ones. =46rom that, I'd assume the use of Request-Tag to be suitable there. How that relates to single-message unsafe requests with blockwise response bodies (eg. empty POSTs) I'm unsure, but a stateless proxy would send a Request-Tag on some of the messages as it can't tell them apart from the above case. KR c --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --ftEhullJWpWg/VHq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl28G7oACgkQOY0REtOk veFpiQ/+IzvTmNzkSZqeyI7aZudI0DfkCJJIwzGFApSuANnQHDWXVZeq/knggQWl qBNai68soVPqsIjiAWqvm9O32uNofOWfflUmrtkOpY6It9G2T0SdAdSajCKPxcO5 PtQqzVPfvDD6L3QX3Owd/lGmvN7R8LWjkxQJp7kKDNfojNuksjQy+jZCm+BwY8eV KARG7vQlnTlB4895pLJOnMPyzYBvezfgBFR5tz9uu4kMEAg3g6h32TtzNSVs7Gen 76ILMzIcsbUTEPOJYLjFFYvLLoQowQxIRIQuL2HRHj4zGoFOMiVqO6qPZaXHnHlg Nb1QKSxA59TW7cO5k4dKEg+zjDkEMX10cm1941G0nHgU5dRCMzEBxeY2PuzQiDbx Je3sYW2uaL+WCfjHBnDY95v/iVHXcmR+2OgOEgm0/JW0+NyWmmkluo4n+8uNgsyv C8uAvQqDdZXikzbWGCO9f0+uNwuDN/klmHGrAE68zIX3WGw78M8cOacvCVBo2oHj e8KQB3JXy5RD2cK3S/EDw2IowdoMEb6oQIpxANXh0Sw4vRhxa4XlXJmCiQXQT/81 ghYHEiAfKSGB5WWX6hR0sE1uzM2Ngx2z0EaCLmdEszUaIqJ8PvpuwTeQr+nW318Z /a3KJEFWo1sHaMwQi7Xs4joKDfQxwllXJhUsNUv4fOdrkk+HNkE= =cYrU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ftEhullJWpWg/VHq-- From nobody Sat Nov 2 13:09:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C55C1200C4 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:09:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WOpX422AgGxW for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C3BE12020A for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDCB3897A; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 16:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA8F71D; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 16:09:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Thomas Fossati cc: Carsten Bormann , Core WG mailing list In-Reply-To: <27A826D9-5F28-4044-BE61-E7CD1C05EA90@arm.com> References: <157237477119.11043.4363082013315464920@ietfa.amsl.com> <27A826D9-5F28-4044-BE61-E7CD1C05EA90@arm.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:09:50 -0400 Message-ID: <913.1572725390@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Chairs' review of draft-ietf-core-stateless-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:09:53 -0000 Thomas Fossati wrote: > Quibbles aside, the document recommends CCM -- over other AEAD > constructions -- and does so consciously, I think, to provide the best > trade-off between overall security, wire efficiency and processing cost. ... because CCM is most likely to be available accelerated in small devices? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Sat Nov 2 13:12:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1496120289 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WueEArblkZny for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EEA312021C for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4759GB32LwzyhP; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 21:12:34 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <913.1572725390@localhost> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 21:12:33 +0100 Cc: Thomas Fossati , Core WG mailing list X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594418351.383221-7d7008be94fdffff47ad9308eef3fc1f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1185AA69-06DD-47D5-9310-10CA4001CE83@tzi.org> References: <157237477119.11043.4363082013315464920@ietfa.amsl.com> <27A826D9-5F28-4044-BE61-E7CD1C05EA90@arm.com> <913.1572725390@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Chairs' review of draft-ietf-core-stateless-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:12:39 -0000 On Nov 2, 2019, at 21:09, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Thomas Fossati wrote: >> Quibbles aside, the document recommends CCM -- over other AEAD >> constructions -- and does so consciously, I think, to provide the = best >> trade-off between overall security, wire efficiency and processing = cost. >=20 > =E2=80=A6 because CCM is most likely to be available accelerated in = small devices? It is used both in 802.15.4 and WiFi, so you are likely to have some = support. Whether that is easily accessible from the application layer is another = question. It is slightly more robust against nonce reuse than, say, GCM (reuse = only jeopardizes the confidentiality of the two data items encrypted = with the same nonce, instead of essentially giving away your hash key as = with GCM). It also has been out for a while, so implementations tend to be mature. 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Sun, 3 Nov 2019 08:32:55 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) Thread-Index: AQHVkA1UqhSd4EHH80awVRCwM08YrA== Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 08:32:55 +0000 Message-ID: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [77.234.109.179] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ef3201ef-0ac8-4fe0-6f32-08d760386cf2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB3275: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0210479ED8 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(346002)(396003)(366004)(376002)(39860400002)(136003)(199004)(189003)(7736002)(2351001)(81156014)(2906002)(26005)(6512007)(6506007)(102836004)(58126008)(478600001)(66066001)(2616005)(105004)(476003)(316002)(486006)(6916009)(5660300002)(14454004)(4744005)(8936002)(54896002)(44832011)(2501003)(6436002)(8676002)(36756003)(81166006)(1730700003)(25786009)(33656002)(14444005)(66476007)(186003)(6116002)(5640700003)(256004)(66946007)(66556008)(6486002)(64756008)(86362001)(76116006)(71200400001)(19627405001)(99286004)(71190400001)(3846002)(66446008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3275; H:HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XDrPUeRe6cOLPYxQaCPNAoV7eR0B8Z/ITbSWKz17beW4lxbEWHTsOGxKxxOldZofNgS25/UcWlSBzlRN3P46NPNDrmHe5ZnB/jhFT07C9YmbOyTfbd2YRy2jEcpC2zaj2pTW+yyaISoEdNn18+JiiCACO98qi3et5pi2rJskFH4cKTzeYR8AIgu4NU4e8zQ6DUCoza3vnpeM2LrUw+Npqg62ABvdjEW2SVzlZk5dZ8wLzwtoY1xXdg8wG+S7eda95CHy/nguRkAht0ruM5D63IhFv2vBR77VCeK26I7r3chTeGiptPXU5pB6KIpfht1zqTq9FD7nPSeaXY39mS2UD2FX+IxFjIf4S5zxaKL7nmXUMfgZ2zTuFLB5txqIS54RB/VhceLLEZD8lS7wb8fj3JaC9kKCkxGp4o5mZBKPWV9jNmX3mqmrximE6pmGju6g x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_998D003E7C3144A78FFEC4E88F678CA3ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ef3201ef-0ac8-4fe0-6f32-08d760386cf2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Nov 2019 08:32:55.6638 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jqhKTCALqvFKxGiEHfnY/171gIE4zpimEM7xGSA63bgFaU9F4LwfdlU+BkVvRRYC1SylAK9ejzROdQLdcazrvYKbMiNpmxKMuNXcl7+0Za0= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3275 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 08:33:03 -0000 --_000_998D003E7C3144A78FFEC4E88F678CA3ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a couple of questions for clarification on Section 3.2. of the stat= eless draft: The text says: =94Such an intermediary might want to be "stateless" as well, i.e., be alleviated of storing the client's token and transport address for received requests. This can be implemented by serializing this information along the request state into the token towards the origin server. When the intermediary receives the response, it can recover the information from the token and use it to satisfy the client's request.=94 Q1: If the intermediary does *not* receive a response to the request sent t= owards the origin server, how can it send the 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) respon= se? Q2: If the intermediary does not maintain request state, how can it even as= sociate a request a timeout timer (that would trigger the 5.04 response) wi= th the request sent towards the origin server? Regards Christer --_000_998D003E7C3144A78FFEC4E88F678CA3ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <81661F8758F966459110C260615E51F4@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I have a couple of question= s for clarification on Section 3.2. of  the stateless draft:

 

The text says:

 

   =94Such an intermediary might want to be "stateless" as we= ll, i.e., be

   alleviated of storing the client's token and transport address for

   received requests.  This can be impleme= nted by serializing this

   information along the request state into the token towards the origi= n

   server.  When the intermediary receives= the response, it can recover

   the information from the token and use it to satisfy the client's

   request.= =94

 

Q1: If the intermediary doe= s *not* receive a response to the request sent towards the origin se= rver, how can it send the 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) response?

 

Q2: If the intermediary doe= s not maintain request state, how can it even associate a request a timeout= timer (that would trigger the 5.04 response) with the request sent towards= the origin server?

 

Regards

 

Christer

 

 

--_000_998D003E7C3144A78FFEC4E88F678CA3ericssoncom_-- From nobody Sun Nov 3 06:47:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257F012010F for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:47:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SoFxm-rijCeU for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E3A41200F5 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:47:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1386546D7F; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:47:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F82B36; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:47:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:6d78:bd47:b07:7e5c]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B1F57A; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:46:58 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 29181 invoked by uid 1000); Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:46:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:46:53 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:47:07 -0000 --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Christer, On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 08:32:55AM +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Q1: If the intermediary does *not* receive a response to the request > sent towards the origin server, how can it send the 5.04 (Gateway > Timeout) response? > > Q2: If the intermediary does not maintain request state, how can it > even associate a request a timeout timer (that would trigger the 5.04 > response) with the request sent towards the origin server? I would not expect a stateless proxy to generate 5.04 errors after a timeout after sending a request. What the stateless proxy does need to do is to keep some state about the server it is talking to (in order to satisfy flow control requirements). If that state indicates unavailability of the server, it could return some 5.xx error (possibly even 5.04, don't know their precise definitions off my head) immediately to a new incoming request for that server. Best regards Christian --=20 This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird. -- perldata(1) about perl variables --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl2+6FoACgkQOY0REtOk veES6hAAjmTc3AKjIwPS2A8byGxu+Djbwe3SuUQP4PKEir6rj9DtKkJ1cYI+YpY2 K9WJB2R/akeGR+e5XR4g6YeDWW7iD4QekzemrSEFWQbx+Y+6xfWS6gSyX2Rvvxtc vOP1SS3TYYlSEBfW8vNhuhPbVYnIuGo5NyIasXFJZGXCvyoXqt7QweFxPLBI9Pbc VV7mHjWusUxJBfe4MxUi9GYrJ4o0xhMEdetgTmdPPZKZWHABshA2f/A8vMivcaDI qSu+eR6jRo4V5iDGL5F8Nlv6e/4BQLAekZXwCYimE/njv2T/tsjCXcrCw+Y2ajed WZInXnT7xdZ20f6ITg5hpKZ5sruGS4f350cfKIu3t06q/1ovSX/12BnUN0zww6is QoGqLtTvtX7N38Ea8VdWhpjaIZNwNYTuLD6HgaaKdiLg683xWk6blDODbti+XevH t4zQiJdDQ/jxQ+6oUabOlDdIjJmKd8TWkGk2MvDiHFp77q/GQPZE8RgeeoVQcQiJ GswnNUbVqA7UuvbUXQA0YMCvCiQV7xhrexICpPkpFOwek1BnA0gB11GSRxJehY4+ OWRLps6/BCDFM3OI54luG27hkJ750OtcnF3BZgWhMMtvLTm/3DWQbFlCmPxckBYf a+LgsGQiNKyEJTASh81HSXIri/3y578DCB7YO1UdcTmWhOItGgk= =KkVd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG-- From nobody Sun Nov 3 06:53:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F751200F5 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:53:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yaws_7Dg27uC for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F657120033 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:53:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-f176.google.com ([209.85.222.176]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iRHGE-0003wf-B3; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 15:53:46 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f176.google.com with SMTP id d13so15147134qko.3 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 06:53:46 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXZp/aScBTqgei8ziZg/07xsM+o+Z87nKWt32wS7iI4EERrbamo xEv5DOKMchRJVFz7Ug49mF3QE/phuAx10mHRzBw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxypFtNzQO8WSgb0LDTe/3U14yUaWThsk4wA6Fh0L8zNYccWip+uWypTmVrZmnXS34CxwVxhVymO+v/b8qE+jg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1ec:: with SMTP id x12mr13031332qkn.237.1572792825123; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 06:53:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:53:08 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1572792829; ed174fde; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iRHGE-0003wf-B3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:53:51 -0000 Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > I would not expect a stateless proxy to generate 5.04 errors after a > timeout after sending a request. > > What the stateless proxy does need to do is to keep some state about the > server it is talking to (in order to satisfy flow control requirements). > If that state indicates unavailability of the server, it could return > some 5.xx error (possibly even 5.04, don't know their precise > definitions off my head) immediately to a new incoming request for that > server. I think it would be good to capture these considerations in the draft. I'll hold back -04 for now so we can make these additions. Klaus From nobody Sun Nov 3 15:04:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D598120074; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:04:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O_9xoDkD61x0; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:04:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr50052.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.5.52]) 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157285917922.16571.12715970489238872924@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 01:19:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-href-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 09:19:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Resource Identifiers Author : Klaus Hartke Filename : draft-ietf-core-href-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: Constrained Resource Identifiers (CoRIs) are an alternate serialization of Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs) that encodes the URI components in Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) instead of a string of characters. This simplifies parsing, reference resolution, and comparison of URIs in environments with severe limitations on processing power, code size, and memory size. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-href/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-href-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-href-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-href-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 4 02:21:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1D0120E2B; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 02:21:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157286287052.16495.244656036440203578@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 02:21:10 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-coral-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 10:21:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : The Constrained RESTful Application Language (CoRAL) Author : Klaus Hartke Filename : draft-ietf-core-coral-01.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: The Constrained RESTful Application Language (CoRAL) defines a data model and interaction model as well as two specialized serialization formats for the description of typed connections between resources on the Web ("links"), possible operations on such resources ("forms"), as well as simple resource metadata. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-coral/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coral-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-coral-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-coral-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 4 07:50:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0DC120A01; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 07:50:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157288262152.16508.3667169775093023463@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 07:50:21 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-08.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 15:50:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoAP: Echo, Request-Tag, and Token Processing Authors : Christian Amsüss John Preuß Mattsson Göran Selander Filename : draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-08.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: This document specifies enhancements to the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) that mitigate security issues in particular use cases. The Echo option enables a CoAP server to verify the freshness of a request or to force a client to demonstrate reachability at its claimed network address. The Request-Tag option allows the CoAP server to match block-wise message fragments belonging to the same request. The update to the client Token processing requirements of RFC 7252 forbids non-secure reuse of Tokens to ensure binding of responses to requests when CoAP is used with security. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 4 07:57:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4A6120AF1; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 07:57:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J86rYVIWFFd8; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 07:57:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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ZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0 aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCiAgICB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlm ZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSBJRVRGIFNl Y3JldGFyaWF0DQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 4 09:07:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD7B120AF1 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:07:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M_1N7doq_OO0 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from statler.isode.com (Statler.isode.com [62.232.206.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C0A120AEA for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:07:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1572887271; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=sjT6wsKRd8FVHmkiWFwZdAR2DJ1UItEv3iJBuj32veA=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=O0rpy6PN6Q2qiUzJh/KDrz5A+tU9tFCJWr4OmcZJdQM65zCJdAZFemFw5pZBqly6dnaRat wHo739cr9zyGHbnE5rLB8lhZUemn/aCkugBRnA7Ir22SEFp/mmYX5lWI+gYM90+vP7YokW c/i2//yKuyYuOMRou3WTc8MYw1Bd4B8=; Received: from [172.20.1.215] (dhcp-215.isode.net [172.20.1.215]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 17:07:51 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov To: "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 17:06:45 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 17:07:54 -0000 Hi, My apologies for the delay in reviewing this document: Everywhere: header =3D=3D> header field (at least one instance in Section 5,= =20 there might be more) In Section 3.7: the first mention of URN needs a reference. In 4.1.1: RDAO type of 38 - IANA typically should be allowed to pick the=20 next available value unless there was an early allocation. You should be=20 prepared for this value to change. In 4.3: =C2=A0 The well-known entry points SHOULD be provided to enable unicast=20 discovery. I don't see a new .well-known value being registered in the IANA=20 Considerations section. Have I misintepreted what this mean? In 4.3, 6th para: =C2=A0=C2=A0 Clients of the RD =C2=A0=C2=A0 SHOULD therefore accept URIs of all schemes they support, both= as =C2=A0=C2=A0 URIs and relative references, Did you mean to say "absolute URIs"? Relative URIs are still URIs =C2=A0=C2=A0 and not limit the set of discovered =C2=A0=C2=A0 URIs to those hosted at the address used for URI discovery. In Section 5: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ep :=3D=C2=A0 Endpoint name (mostly mandator= y).=C2=A0 The endpoint name is an =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier that MUST be un= ique within a sector.=C2=A0 As the =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 endpoint name is a Unicode= string, it is encoded in UTF-8 (and =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 possibly pct-encoding) pct-encoding =3D=3D> pct-encoded =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 during variable expansion = (see [RFC6570] =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 3.2.1). At the end of section 5: =C2=A0=C2=A0 Req: POST /rd?ep=3Dnode1&base=3Dhttp://[2001:db8:1::1] HTTP/1.= 1 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Host: example.com =C2=A0=C2=A0 Content-Type: application/link-format =C2=A0=C2=A0 Payload: =C2=A0=C2=A0 ;ct=3D41;rt=3D"temperature-c";if=3D"sensor", =C2=A0=C2=A0 ; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 anchor=3D"/sensors/temp";rel=3D"describedby" This is not valid HTTP, I would rather you used a proper HTTP example.=20 If you do, the line "Payload:" should be replaced with an empty line to=20 separate payload from the header section. In 5.3, 1st para: =C2=A0=C2=A0 This section describes how the registering endpoint can mainta= in the =C2=A0=C2=A0 registrations that it created.=C2=A0 The registering endpoint = can be the =C2=A0=C2=A0 registrant-ep or the CT.=C2=A0 An endpoint SHOULD NOT use this= interface Why SHOULD NOT (instead of MUST NOT) and how is this enforced? =C2=A0=C2=A0 for registrations that it did not create.=C2=A0 The registrati= ons are =C2=A0=C2=A0 resources of the RD. In 5.3.1 on page 31: typo: Service Unabailable =3D=3D> Service Unavailable In 6.2, 5th para: =C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that "href" is a valid search criterion and matches targe= t =C2=A0=C2=A0 references.=C2=A0 Like all search criteria, on a resource look= up it can =C2=A0=C2=A0 match the target reference of the resource link itself, but al= so the =C2=A0=C2=A0 registration resource of the endpoint that registered it. Quer= ies =C2=A0=C2=A0 for resource link targets MUST be in URI form (i.e. not relati= ve I think you means "absolute URI form" (relative reference is still a URI=20 form) =C2=A0=C2=A0 references) and are matched against a resolved link target. Qu= eries =C2=A0=C2=A0 for endpoints SHOULD be expressed in path-absolute form if pos= sible =C2=A0=C2=A0 and MUST be expressed in URI form otherwise; "relative URI form" here? =C2=A0=C2=A0 the RD SHOULD recognize =C2=A0=C2=A0 either. In 6.2: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 search :=3D=C2=A0 Search criteria for limiti= ng the number of results =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (optional). I think this is undespecified. Can you give me an example? In 6.4, 3rd para: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in path-absolute form or, if required, as absolute refer= ences. What is the difference between these two? In 7.3: =C2=A0=C2=A0 Assuming that the client is provided by a certificate =C2=A0=C2=A0 at manufacturing time, the certificate is uniquely identified = by the =C2=A0=C2=A0 CN field and the serial number. This probably needs a reference for CN/serial number. In 9.3: =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 validity requirements if any, and Does this include syntax? Also, should the list of fields include "reference to the document with=20 more information"? (can be optional) At the end of section 9.3: =C2=A0=C2=A0 It is expected that the registry will receive between 5 and 50= =20 registrations in total over the next years. This will not age well! Maybe remove this text from the document and add=20 it to the spherding write-up? I think the following reference is Normative the way it is used in the=20 document: =C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-core-rd-dns-sd] Stok, P., Koster, M., and C. Amsuess= ,=20 "CoRE Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping", draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-05=20 (work in progress), July 2019. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Mon Nov 4 09:25:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF15012012A for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:25:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqUWlH_zAXd6 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 691611200FE for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-f182.google.com ([209.85.222.182]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iRg6E-0002m2-Dg; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 18:25:06 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f182.google.com with SMTP id d13so18395820qko.3 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 09:25:06 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXh4rQ/rNBHGy4mtXDjvPKrN62hAM+BZ2f2unkAoFJ4nHirLTNy 8pUD+tx5e4SYFaXBYUNswto+63y3DS+ei52Y+Hs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzbwqtZ2SgHo49R18jIAeUbpWEmlajzXxDZBwfO5w6sCrcVO69GP7rTejMjOQ0khPiBiCa3sjMqRjSpEK7djyE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:11a7:: with SMTP id c7mr2491797qkk.448.1572888305091; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 09:25:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 18:24:29 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: "core@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1572888310; 6be18a96; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iRg6E-0002m2-Dg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 17:25:15 -0000 Alexey Melnikov wrote: > In 4.3, 6th para: > > Clients of the RD > SHOULD therefore accept URIs of all schemes they support, both as > URIs and relative references, > > Did you mean to say "absolute URIs"? Relative URIs are still URIs After studying RFC 3986 for over a decade, my moment has come! I can point out that someone is wrong on the Internet [1] ;-) A relative URI reference is not a URI. Both URIs and relative references are URI references [2]. And an absolute URI is a URI without a fragment identifier [3]. Klaus [1] https://xkcd.com/386/ [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.1 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.3 From nobody Mon Nov 4 10:47:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE9F1209A8; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:47:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157289324517.13924.2373514584101071433@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 10:47:25 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 18:47:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Group OSCORE - Secure Group Communication for CoAP Authors : Marco Tiloca Goeran Selander Francesca Palombini Jiye Park Filename : draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06.txt Pages : 48 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: This document describes a mode for protecting group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). The proposed mode relies on Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (OSCORE) and the CBOR Object Signing and Encryption (COSE) format. In particular, it defines how OSCORE is used in a group communication setting, while fulfilling the same security requirements for group requests and responses. Source authentication of all messages exchanged within the group is provided by means of digital signatures produced by the sender and embedded in the protected CoAP messages. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 4 11:47:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3B612012A; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:47:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157289684906.13924.6953491051292699314@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 11:47:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 19:47:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Additional Units for SenML Author : Carsten Bormann Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: The Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) media type supports the indication of units for a quantity represented. This short document registers a number of additional unit names in the IANA registry for Units in SenML. It also defines a registry for secondary units that cannot be in SenML's main registry as they are derived by linear transformation from units already in that registry; RFC 8428 is updated to also accept these units. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 4 11:49:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DA81201E4 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqtgDeKkKV0w for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC17512082D for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 476Ndr3C8GzyQp; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 20:48:48 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <157289684906.13924.6953491051292699314@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 20:48:48 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594589725.064611-b319b2f6e38df75bf3ca84b3e770bfd6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6F1FE28B-197E-4000-805C-247405B5505B@tzi.org> References: <157289684906.13924.6953491051292699314@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Core WG mailing list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 19:48:58 -0000 This update has only the IANA comments (and some SDO input). Addressing the big discussion about whether this is the right way is = still outstanding. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Nov 4, 2019, at 20:47, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG = of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Additional Units for SenML > Author : Carsten Bormann > Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2019-11-04 >=20 > Abstract: > The Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) media type supports the > indication of units for a quantity represented. This short document > registers a number of additional unit names in the IANA registry for > Units in SenML. It also defines a registry for secondary units that > cannot be in SenML's main registry as they are derived by linear > transformation from units already in that registry; RFC 8428 is > updated to also accept these units. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-senml-more-units-03 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon Nov 4 15:07:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6939A120A69; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 15:07:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <157290886334.13984.12845257203753002797@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 15:07:43 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 23:07:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : SenML Data Value Content-Format Indication Authors : Ari Keranen Carsten Bormann Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct-01.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2019-11-04 Abstract: The Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) media type supports multiple types of values, from numbers to text strings and arbitrary binary data values. In order to simplify processing of the data values this document proposes to specify a new SenML field for indicating the Content-Format of the data. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-senml-data-ct-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Ip=[194.218.146.197]; Helo=[mail.ri.se] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6P189MB0293 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 10:56:24 -0000 --vfW7yo1EvP5Y7Eg7uUQDkRLSxV6VIN30L Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="VsRVx6XYEohb1eIhBVRUpeA3FkkzLLvnK"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <5695c325-e4a6-c505-23b8-d40c0fa171e6@ri.se> Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt References: <157289424483.13920.18271406947297970054.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <157289424483.13920.18271406947297970054.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --VsRVx6XYEohb1eIhBVRUpeA3FkkzLLvnK Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------04E99E2299A7F42F6C190287" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------04E99E2299A7F42F6C190287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE, We have submitted an update for the draft "Observe Notifications as CoAP Multicast Responses". https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notificat= ions-01 The document describes how a CoAP server can send Observe notifications over multicast, by synchronizing the observers of a target resource to a same shared Token value. Also, it describes how Group OSCORE can be used to protect such notifications sent over multicast. The proposed approach is especially relevant for, but not limited to, the "Pub-Sub and Multicast" use case elaborated during the Hallway Discussion at IETF 104.= This update has revised and simplified the solution design, based on the feedback from IETF 105, the dedicated workshop in Stockholm on the 16th of October and the following discussion at the CoRE interim meeting on the same day. Comments are very welcome! Best, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:04:04 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Christian Amsuess , Marco Tiloca , Rikard Hoeglund , Francesca Palombini A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications Revision: 01 Title: Observe Notifications as CoAP Multicast Responses Document date: 2019-11-04 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 18 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-= notifications-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-noti= fications/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notificat= ions-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast= -notifications Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-n= otifications-01 Abstract: The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) allows clients to "observe" resources at a server, and receive notifications as unicast responses upon changes of the resource state. In some use cases, such as based on publish-subscribe, it would be convenient for the server to send a single notification to all the clients observing a same target resource. This document defines how a CoAP server sends observe notifications as response messages over multicast, by synchronizing all the observers of a same resource on a same shared Token value. Besides, this document defines how Group OSCORE can be used to protect multicast notifications end-to-end from the CoAP server to the multiple observer clients. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------04E99E2299A7F42F6C190287 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE,

We have submitted an update for the draft "Observe Notifications as CoAP Multicast Responses".

https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01

The document describes how a CoAP server can send Observe notifications over multicast, by synchronizing the observers of a target resource to a same shared Token value. Also, it describes how Group OSCORE can be used to protect such notifications sent over multicast. The proposed approach is especially relevant for, but not limited to, the "Pub-Sub and Multicast" use case elaborated during the Hallway Discussion at IETF 104.

This update has revised and simplified the solution design, based on the feedback from IETF 105, the dedicated workshop in Stockholm on the 16th of October and the following discussion at the CoRE interim meeting on the same day.

Comments are very welcome!

Best,
/Marco


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt
Dat= e: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:04:04 -0800
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Christian Amsuess <christian@amsuess.com>, Marc= o Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, Rikard Hoeglund <rikard.hoglund@ri.se>, Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository.

Name: draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications
Revision: 01
Title: Observe Notifications as CoAP Multicast Responses
Document date: 2019-11-04
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 18
URL: https://= www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifica= tions-01.txt
Status: https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications/
= Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-01
Htmlized: https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications=
Diff: https://www.i= etf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-observe-multicast-notifications-= 01

Abstract:
The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) allows clients to
"observe" resources at a server, and receive notifications as unicast
responses upon changes of the resource state. In some use cases, such as based on publish-subscribe, it would be convenient for the<= br> server to send a single notification to all the clients observing a
same target resource. This document defines how a CoAP server sends
observe notifications as response messages over multicast, by
synchronizing all the observers of a same resource on a same shared
Token value. Besides, this document defines how Group OSCORE can be
used to protect multicast notifications end-to-end from the CoAP server to the multiple observer clients.



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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Ip=[194.218.146.197]; Helo=[mail.ri.se] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1P18901MB0157 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 10:58:56 -0000 --mJcTUne3M8Y710rp7VVvBAm6Ys7SUI9zv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="N8Z11cfPtwPEC8O7HgjB5U35spNMxA9hG"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <8a599336-bccc-2824-1a1b-fb4263b13093@ri.se> Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt References: <157289388634.13892.16590896783579727364.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <157289388634.13892.16590896783579727364.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --N8Z11cfPtwPEC8O7HgjB5U35spNMxA9hG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------60D1F038FB4D7BD2C2607387" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------60D1F038FB4D7BD2C2607387 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE, We have submitted an updated version of draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discover= y https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 The document describes how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager. This update is mostly about: 1) Clarifying the rationale behind the proposed approach in the introduction. 2) Replacing the zeroed-epoch OSCORE Group ID with a simpler security group name. 3) Revising and clarifying the use and encoding of target attributes for the resources registered at the RD by the OSCORE Group Manager. 4) Accordingly updating all the examples. This update is also the result of feedback from the dedicated workshop in Stockholm on the 16th of October and the following discussion at the CoRE interim meeting on the same day. Comments are very welcome! Best, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:58:06 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Christian Amsuess , Marco Tiloca , Peter van der Stok A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Revision: 04 Title: Discovery of OSCORE Groups with the CoRE Resource Directory Document date: 2019-11-04 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 20 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-0= 4.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discove= ry/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-= 04 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04= Abstract: Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) can be secured by means of Group Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (Group OSCORE). At deployment time, devices may not know the exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group Manager, or other information required to perform the joining process. This document describes how a CoAP endpoint can use descriptions and links of resources registered at the CoRE Resource Directory to discover OSCORE groups and to acquire information for joining them through the respective Group Manager. A given OSCORE group may protect multiple application groups, which are separately announced in the Resource Directory as sets of endpoints sharing a pool of resources. This approach is consistent with, but not limited to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE framework for Authentication and Authorization in constrained environments. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------60D1F038FB4D7BD2C2607387 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello CoRE,

We have submitted an updated version of draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04

The document describes how to use the CoRE Resource Directory for discovering OSCORE groups and retrieving information to join them through their Group Manager.

This update is mostly about:

1) Clarifying the rationale behind the proposed approach in the introduction.

2) Replacing the zeroed-epoch OSCORE Group ID with a simpler security group name.

3) Revising and clarifying the use and encoding of target attributes for the resources registered at the RD by the OSCORE Group Manager.
4) Accordingly updating all the examples.


This update is also the result of feedback from the dedicated workshop in Stockholm on the 16th of October and the following discussion at the CoRE interim meeting on the same day.

Comments are very welcome!

Best,
/Marco


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt
Dat= e: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:58:06 -0800
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Christian Amsuess <christian@amsuess.com>, Marc= o Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>, Peter van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>



A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt
= has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository.

Name: draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Revision: 04
Title: Discovery of OSCORE Groups with the CoRE Resource Directory<= br> Document date: 2019-11-04
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 20
URL: https://www.ietf.org/in= ternet-drafts/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04
Htmlized: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery
Diff: https://www.ietf.org/r= fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04

Abstract:
Group communication over the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP)
can be secured by means of Group Object Security for Constrained RESTful Environments (Group OSCORE). At deployment time, devices may
not know the exact OSCORE groups to join, the respective Group
Manager, or other information required to perform the joining
process. This document describes how a CoAP endpoint can use
descriptions and links of resources registered at the CoRE Resource
Directory to discover OSCORE groups and to acquire information for<= br> joining them through the respective Group Manager. A given OSCORE group may protect multiple application groups, which are separately
announced in the Resource Directory as sets of endpoints sharing a<= br> pool of resources. This approach is consistent with, but not limited
to, the joining of OSCORE groups based on the ACE framework for
= Authentication and Authorization in constrained environments.



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5P189MB0355 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-05 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 15:03:16 -0000 --xeqBV8tUPfKcjuTZJbR7yvdf72BI4UXF5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="24aPR83JarI72VmpyLqlfsUzAPmVOF5ES"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Ludwig Seitz , draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm@ietf.org Cc: core Message-ID: <510cd1d3-fcde-d787-5049-f497df91f8d4@ri.se> Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-05 References: <523312fb-74ff-2845-7371-1a33202ae4af@ri.se> In-Reply-To: <523312fb-74ff-2845-7371-1a33202ae4af@ri.se> --24aPR83JarI72VmpyLqlfsUzAPmVOF5ES Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Ludwig, Thank you very much for your review! We have addressed your points in the recently submitted v -06. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06 Please, see our replies inline below. Best, /Marco On 7/24/19 2:13 PM, Ludwig Seitz wrote: > Hello Marco, G=C3=B6ran, Francesca and Jiye, > > here are some review comments on draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-05: > > > =3D=3D > All document: > Update references to OSCORE to point to RFC 8613 > Done. > =3D=3D > 1.1 > > Why allow collisions between Group Identifiers managed by a single GM? > This seems unnecessary and dangerous, is there a good use-case where > this is warranted? It does not have any security implications (see Section 8.5). However, we are now mandating uniqueness of Group Identifiers under the same Group Manager. > > =3D=3D > 2. > > Why not require the application to prevent collisions between Gids? Do you mean the application at the GM? The group members cannot "prevent" collisions, but they can handle them, e.g. trying to use the different matching contexts until one successfully decrypts the incoming message. > > =3D=3D > 2. > "If not already stored in the Recipient Context associated to the > sender, the recipient retrieves the sender's public key from the Group > Manager, which collects public keys upon endpoints' joining the=C2=A0=C2= =A0 > group, acts as trusted key repository and ensures the correct > association between the public key and the identifier of the sender, > for instance by means of public key certificates." > > Note that this requires a device to have two parallel sessions open > (one with the GM and one on which the message linked to the > potentially missing public key. This may not always be feasible on > very constrained devices. We have added some considerations on this, in the third paragraph after the table in Figure 1. > > =3D=3D > 2.1. > "After a new Gid has been distributed, a same Recipient ID ('kid') > should not be considered as a persistent and reliable indicator of > the same group member.=C2=A0 Such an indication can be actually achieve= d > only by verifying countersignatures of received messages." > > This is really counter-intuitive and dangerous. Why can identifiers be > redistributed within the same group? Shouldn't the GM make sure that > the same identifier is assigned to a group member, even if the > security context is updated? If the only reliable identifier is the > public key, why not make the sender/recipient ID a hash of that public > key? There is (at least) a case where the GM can assign a new Sender ID to a current group member. If that node experiences a wrap-around of its own Sender Sequence Number (used as Partial IV), the node reports that to the GM. As an alternative to perform a full group rekeying, the GM may choose to assign a new Sender ID to that sender node, which will consequently derive a new Sender Key and can resume sending messages starting from Sender Sequence Number 0. See also [1]. Of course, this will result in the recipient nodes to derive a new associated recipient context. As to the second part of the comment, some group members are not (necessarily) associated with a public key provided to the GM. This applies to the "silent servers", that received only and never sends outgoing message to sign. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore-03#sectio= n-7 > > =3D=3D > 3. > "... with an Authenticated Encryption with Additional Data (AEAD) > algorithm" > > AEAD expands to "Authenticated Encryption with Associated Data" Ooops. That was an oversight. > > =3D=3D > 3.1 > "The external_aad in the Additional Authenticated Data (AAD) is > extended as follows." > > As far as I can tell the external_add is not "in" the AAD, it is the > AAD, so I'd suggest to rephrase to "The external_aad structure of the > Additional Authenticated Data (AAD) ..." Based on [2], it does not seem to be a one-to-one correspondence. The external_aad is used to build the AAD. Anyway, a phrasing like "The external_aad of the Additional Authenticated Data (AAD) ..." looks good. [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8613#section-5.4 > > =3D=3D > 7. > "2. [...] Such policies can be enforced locally by the Group Manager, > or by a third party in a trust relation with the Group Manager and > entrusted to enforce join policies on behalf of the Group Manager." > > This feels unnecessary in the context of this document, since it > doesn't deal at all with the how/where/why of the policies governing > access to a group. I would suggest to delete this sentence. I tend to agree with your view. We have now removed that sentence. > > =3D=3D > 7. > "3.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Driving the join process to add new endpoints as group = members." > > This sounds weird. What does "driving the process" mean? Perhaps just > rephrase to "handle the join process"? Yes, that sounds good. > > =3D=3D > 7. > "4.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Establishing Security Common Contexts ..." > > This part of the sentence sounds like there is an unintentional word > swap. Did you mean "Establishing the Common Context part of the > Security Context"? > > Note that the term "Security Common Context" appears in several other > places throughout the document. Yes, now rephrased also to refer to "Common Context" (all over the document). > > =3D=3D > 8.3 > "... a key management scheme for secure revocation and renewal of > Security Contexts and group keying material ..." > > Isn't the "group keying material" part redundant? If I understood > everything correctly it is part of the Security Contexts. In a simple case, the only group keying material is part of the Group Security Context. In general, the GM may use advanced group key management schemes that also rely on multicast messages to rekey the group more efficiently. These schemes leverage on additional administrative group key material, used to securely perform group rekeying. So "group keying material" above was intended to cover also such administrative keys. Perhaps it helps to give an intuitive pointer to this in the text. > > =3D=3D > 8.4 Second paragraph. > > If I read this correctly you propose that applications > allow recipients to continue using invalid security contexts for a > limited time after a security context update. This sounds dangerous > and unnecessary. Why would we want to propose such a measure? We could > adopt the equivalent procedure here to the one proposed in the third > paragraph, that is "If a sender receives a Security Context update > shorty after having sent a message, it can re-send that message using > the new Security Context." We are leaving the final choice to the application, while still not recommending this choice and explaining its downsides (end of the second paragraph). As to your proposed alternative, I was thinking of the following sequence of events, considering that C cannot tell for sure if/when S has switched context. 1. C sends a message M protected with ctx_old. 2. S receives M, decrypts it with ctx_old, and processes it. 3. C and S switch to ctx_new , i.e. S is not much faster than C in its switching (but C cannot know). 4. C re-sends M protected with ctx_new. 5. R receives M, decrypts it with ctx_new, and processes it again. So, if S was not much faster than C in its context switching (like instead discussed in the draft), this re-sending would result in S processing the same request twice, which is probably not the intention of= C. To make things a bit better, C does not re-send M if it has received a response from S to the original M. However, what if S just does not respond or the response is lost? Note that requests over multicast are Non-CON. > > =3D=3D > 8.5 > > Why would an application even allow non-unique group identifiers? This > makes the whole concept of the group identifier useless. Is there a > realistic use case where this could happen? Otherwise I suggest > removing this text. See response above. I suppose this refers specifically on uniqueness of Group Identifiers under the same GM. There is not so much you can do for groups under different (non-synchronized) Group Manager, and just handle possible collisions at the application. > > =3D=3D > 8.9 > "Group OSCORE derives the Security Context using the same construction > of OSCORE" > > should be: ...same construction as ... Fixed. > > =3D=3D > 8.10 > "Thus, other that in such unlikely case, it cannot be defined that > only messages with sequence number which are equal to previous > sequence number + 1 are accepted." > > I cannot make sense of this sentence, please rephrase, possibly > splitting it into several sentences. Rephrased as: "Thus, unless only unicast messages are sent in the group, it cannot be defined that only messages with sequence numbers that are equal to the previous sequence number + 1 are accepted." > > =3D=3D > 8.14 > "...this parameter explicitly relate two or more communicating > endpoints," > > should be "...explicitly relates two ..." Fixed. > > =3D=3D > 9.1 and 9.2 > > Would be nice if there was a sentence or two explaining the difference > between the two registries, as it is not immediately obvious. > Done. Note that, taking advantage of the latest updates to the COSE drafts, we're going to remove the two registries and instead point at: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs-06.html#name-iana= -considerations > =3D=3D > 9.3 > "The IANA Registry established in this document is defined" > > should be "Registries ... are defined" Fixed. > > =3D=3D > Appendix B 5th bullet > > The abbreviation LLN should be expanded. Done. > > =3D=3D > Appendix B 6th bullet > > " The latters may reply back ..." > > Should be "The latter ..." Done. > > =3D=3D > Appendix B 6th bullet > > Expand the abbreviation "MPL" Done. Thank you very much again for your review! > > > > Regards, > > Ludwig > > > --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher RISE Research Institutes of Sweden Division ICT Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 https://www.ri.se --24aPR83JarI72VmpyLqlfsUzAPmVOF5ES-- --xeqBV8tUPfKcjuTZJbR7yvdf72BI4UXF5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAl3BjyQACgkQ7iZktA5Y 2kM97Af/bwA4YlQ7EUSKLjsFpNpWWgs0rAvh3+dsvoeMmW6aONdiyUnt4PvdpnL3 4KJTdRYvhWgmbW8I96aW0pkLV17JsGPovs38NU6oaTFb8P1kyrp6Pwn3NRJuBmd3 9kB0l4VcXYr2GrjcnEsYG9GfbNkQXL2hp57WwTSawX3wWQRGnBnbWQb4hgMrme2o ONy1kL4vt+Ec2tD5j6KXpKpdsOhr9YYA0JbvSQIsDZCoiJKErzFS8EChBKWBzteD w3kXuH9l+XrZA6yw/oLOsenRqsN0uq5FJ6YCy4JmcCshHeGHXRa09c/JBjg1jcqD NMoJcUxX9fBcaN/Qelz7RX1ysqZ1QA== =UJN3 -----END PGP 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Subject: Re: [core] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-senml-etch-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 19:43:58 -0000 SGkgQXJpIQ0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBwdWxsIHJlcXVlc3RzIGFuZCBleHBsYW5hdGlvbnMg YmVsb3cuICBNeSBESVNDVVNTIGFuZCBDT01NRU5UcyBhcmUgYWRkcmVzc2VkIGJ5IFBSICMxMyBh bmQgIzE0LiAgRGV0YWlscyBpbmxpbmUgLi4uDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t LS0NCj4gRnJvbTogQXJpIEtlcsOkbmVuIDxhcmkua2VyYW5lbkBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+DQo+IFNl bnQ6IFN1bmRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMDMsIDIwMTkgNjowNCBQTQ0KPiBUbzogUm9tYW4gRGFueWxp dyA8cmRkQGNlcnQub3JnPjsgVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IENjOiBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLWNvcmUtc2VubWwtZXRjaEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgQ2Fyc3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uIDxjYWJvQHR6aS5v cmc+Ow0KPiBjb3JlLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgY29yZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBS 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IChpLmUuLCBhcnJheSB3aXRoIG5vDQo+PiBlbGVtZW50cykgaXMgcmV0dXJuZWQgYXMgYSByZXNw b25zZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcy4NCj4gDQo+Pj4gKDUpIEVkaXRvcmlhbCBOaXRzOg0KPj4+IA0K Pj4+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4xLiAgIHMvV2hlbiBTZW5NTCBSZWNvcmRzIGNvbnRhaW4gYWxzbyB0 aW1lIHZhbHVlcy9XaGVuDQo+PiBTZW5NTA0KPj4+IFJlY29yZHMgYWxzbyBjb250YWluIHRpbWUg dmFsdWVzLw0KPj4gDQo+PiBJIHJlYWxpemVkIHRoaXMgd2FzIG5vdCBmdWxseSBjb3JyZWN0IGFu ZCByZXdyb3RlIHRoYXQgcGFydCBpbnRvOg0KPj4gVGhlIFNlbk1MIHRpbWUgZmllbGQgY2FuIGJl IHVzZWQgaW4gYSBGZXRjaCBSZWNvcmQgdG8gZnVydGhlciBuYXJyb3cgdGhlDQo+PiBzZWxlY3Rp b24gb2YgbWF0Y2hlZCBTZW5NTCBSZWNvcmRzLg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzLg0KPiANCj4gUmVnYXJk cywNCj4gUm9tYW4NCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Nov 6 13:51:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02A011201A3 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:51:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2bgJ8eODq1w for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71914120145 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 477gFs1JmzzyRf; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:50:57 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 594769855.402856-47e6c98d5dd7ac45bf0afcacbd893547 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:50:56 +0100 Message-Id: To: Core WG mailing list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] CoRE @ IETF106 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 21:51:00 -0000 We(*) have uploaded a drafty first agenda for IETF106 to: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/agenda-106-core The schedule for Wednesday is a bit optimistic; something may have to = give (and move to Friday); we may want to swap CoRE applications and = SenML, for example. And/or we may want to pick up contentious points = from Wednesday and revisit them on Friday. Slot leaders: Please have your slides ready by Sunday, 2019-11-17 (of course, updates = are expected, e.g., for the report from CoRE applications side meeting). Are all your slots in the agenda? Is the time adequate? Please provide (or update) objectives where the current ones aren=E2=80=99= t sufficient (or there at all). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) all errors are mind. 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MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: hhDhTraJsWm0lK3m2hQHAc2hx0eX6Zb2d0ewsdrOBKL2JqALsbwElTYMYm2+1wY5WttZcT/XDYsoS+eoe+6zhNzHWPbZ7i4DeCiCS1tVvW8wQEuAtsDkQr0UGjf6X9cfRqXB1MJaaliNYKU58RowrVc/zkncOsq5nv4l4+OdKLglRaF9pLf9URSJYOCnPNhT21vQznrFXh3nlwAh1FtpiKF/aGzIyvlGOmoOLJ33r+j1r3YX6H1u+cyToTE0Qm+9mEfrz01i7z9xNwIYpGFriKfOLCfBry7BKtI+30jV7QcyTh2E58aMibKSe3UWKdDc5lUKfbn/+2HIsJVqdd5Q3cgfi7ETegeaPU6QGbLk1I/lb6OGNdqtNBTHlmSwlg6v9UInf4J6m4NICjtsBZhb04NQfD8R5d/9Hgndw31BOV37vcsu2oc5FHt0eBBkWDqj x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01D59555.52058570" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e33b1645-8e84-41c0-d41d-08d76364135e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Nov 2019 09:22:56.8026 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NVMGgOeQUxrpWo7Qmq6LxUpf4mv1WyE9bGppJMqhwHZ9pey/eiXfu/By/DQkD3pNflYhu4Sf3XjAFrk/ZS/Lrl3qslaUF5vW13O8uPzXjpg= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB4037 Archived-At: Subject: [core] CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:23:07 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D59555.52058570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're planning another side-meeting on Applications in Constrained RESTful Environments at IETF106 in Singapore. Proposed Topics * Problem Details for CoRE Applications [1] [2] How to carry machine-readable details of errors in CoAP responses to avoid the need to define a new error response format for each CoRE application? * Extensibility and Code Points in CoRE Applications [2] [3] [4] How to mint identifiers for semantic vocabulary (such as identifiers for error conditions in above problem details) that are efficient on the wire and have a low barrier to entry? * Specification of CoRE Applications [5] [6] [7] How to specify the interfaces of CoRE applications in Internet Drafts? When Tuesday Afternoon session III (17:10-18:40) Where Room "Butterworth" [8] Welcome! [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7807 [2] https://thomas-fossati.github.io/draft-coap-problem/draft-fossati-core-coap-problem.html [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-07 [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coral-01 [5] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-pubsub-00 [6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-reef-03 [7] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hartke-t2trg-data-hub-05 [8] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/floor-plan?room=butterworth#raffles-city-convention-center ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D59555.52058570 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVZjCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy YTEZMBcGA1UEAxMQU29uZXJhIENsYXNzMiBDQTAeFw0wMTA0MDYwNzI5NDBaFw0yMTA0MDYwNzI5 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(52.133.245.74) by VI1PR08MB2687.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.175.245.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2408.24; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 09:53:36 +0000 Received: from VI1PR08MB5360.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::21b9:aacd:ea36:92ee]) by VI1PR08MB5360.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::21b9:aacd:ea36:92ee%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2408.028; Thu, 7 Nov 2019 09:53:36 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: "core@ietf.org WG" Thread-Topic: Core Link Format Thread-Index: AdWVUFw8kCY58VE7Q2aWBf8x/cGrdg== Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 09:53:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ts-tracking-id: 04a6a216-034e-4e80-817d-d48ae33dcc0d.0 x-checkrecipientchecked: true Authentication-Results-Original: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com; x-originating-ip: [195.149.223.216] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR08MB5490 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Core Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:53:48 -0000 --_000_VI1PR08MB53608C867775D1F1F7051368FA780VI1PR08MB5360eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, In previous discussions it was pointed out that Core Link Format has a coup= le of deficiencies, which motivated the work on Coral. I was wondering whether there is a write-up available about those problems. The reason for my question is simple: (a) we are using Core Link Format in LwM2M and we would like to understand = whether it is useful to switch to something else. (b) We have successfully tested Core Link Format in various LwM2M testfests= and it worked well for us. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_VI1PR08MB53608C867775D1F1F7051368FA780VI1PR08MB5360eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

In previous discussions it was pointed out that Core= Link Format has a couple of deficiencies, which motivated the work on Cora= l.

I was wondering whether there is a write-up availabl= e about those problems.

 

The reason for my question is simple:

(a) we are using Core Link Format in LwM2M and we wo= uld like to understand whether it is useful to switch to something else.

(b) We have successfully tested Core Link Format in = various LwM2M testfests and it worked well for us.

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_VI1PR08MB53608C867775D1F1F7051368FA780VI1PR08MB5360eurp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 11 07:35:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080DA12089E for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TnwZ0a4exbOv for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6018012023E for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-f175.google.com ([209.85.222.175]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iUBjK-0001p9-Lq; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:35:50 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f175.google.com with SMTP id q70so11494968qke.12 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:35:50 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUN04AhxcfUoVoAYaOjovYz3qAyqeb8ew3EYiv1XTwEDpKzK1T0 5QTqQIyuaB2q8f63ueiSY9g9ul4ueO57MMXosQ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzqkApDK4XqVDAO6txqp6ujWu7lpjNlTe0boW38g3t1pbRo2UKxXbm5RUv3z5sBAKNgESICXzPlW3fUXGv5UdA= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f503:: with SMTP id o3mr10557052qkg.453.1573486549425; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:35:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Klaus Hartke Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:35:13 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1573486554; 9694d8fd; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iUBjK-0001p9-Lq Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Core Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:35:57 -0000 Hi Hannes, > In previous discussions it was pointed out that Core Link Format has a couple of deficiencies, which motivated the work on Coral. > I was wondering whether there is a write-up available about those problems. I don't have a comprehensive write-up, but a few items from the top of my head below. The limitations of Link Format most frequently show up in CoRE WG meetings where draft authors present exciting new ways to use Link Format for things it was never intended for. Link Format comes with a bunch of weirdnesses and complexities, which makes it difficult to make it accommodate new use cases. CoRAL is more motivated by the need for more expressiveness than the weirdnesses of Link Format. But those weirdnesses exist, to the point, for instance, that draft-ietf-core-resource-directory defines its own Link Format [1]. If you'd like to avoid these weirdnesses and gain more expressiveness (in particular for future evolution), then I think CoRAL would be really interesting for LwM2M. Some issues: * The rules for the context of a link ("...origin of the target URI...") [2] are a constant source of unawareness/confusion and mis-implementation. * The "hosts" link relation type [3] has really, really weird semantics (a featureless relation between a host and a resource, where determining the host relies on the weird rules for the link context). * Despite the appearance of simplicity, parsing Link Format is often more difficult than anticipated by implementers. For example, I've seen implementations that just split the input by ';' and assume that each resulting substring must be one link, regardless of where the ';' occurs. And don't get me started on link attributes with internationalized string values ;-) title*=UTF-8'de'n%c3%a4chstes%20Kapitel * Processing URI references correctly is also really hard to get right. On constrained devices, implementations often don't want to pay the price for a full URI parser and just do some simple string manipulation instead. For example, I've seen implementations that completely disregard the existence of percent encoding and dot segments. URI parsers are also a constant source of fun^H^H^Hsecurity issues [4]. * Link relation types must be registered in the IANA Link Relation Types registry [5]. However, of those registered so far, few are actually useful in the context of IoT - and we probably won't get far flooding the registry with IoT-specific vocabulary. Of course, there are extension link relation types [6], but these are not exactly compact on the wire. * Link target attributes don't even have an IANA registry. * Link target attributes provide information only about link targets. However, it is often very useful to be able to provide also information about the represented resource at the same time. * Link Format only has links that describe how a resource is related to another resource. However, it is often very useful to be able to describe also what you can do with a resource, what parameters are required, etc., when you're extending an API over time. Best regards, Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23#appendix-C [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#section-2.1 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#section-2.2 [4] https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-17/thursday/us-17-Tsai-A-New-Era-Of-SSRF-Exploiting-URL-Parser-In-Trending-Programming-Languages.pdf [5] https://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml [6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8288#section-3.3 From nobody Mon Nov 11 08:07:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B841C1208B0 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:07:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_SBL=0.5, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YlQeLOo5ZIND for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EBAB1208A4 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47BbPK2LJ5zySN; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:07:33 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:07:43 +0100 Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595181261.88094-686133f2866bf47cb3e7595635407de3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <13D4B0E0-0653-4C3B-82B0-D8AA2AC9E37D@tzi.org> References: To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Core Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:07:41 -0000 On Nov 11, 2019, at 16:35, Klaus Hartke wrote: >=20 > I don't have a comprehensive write-up, but a few items from the top of > my head below. Hi Klaus, thanks for providing the details. My view of the high-level summary is that link-format is still fine to = do the things that it originally was designed to do: Provide a = self-description of a device by listing its resources, enable the = aggregation of these self-descriptions in a resource directory. When the potential became apparent to use link-format as a more general = application format, the idiosyncrasies started to be a problem. We = noticed this when we tried to standardize links-json, which originally = was intended to be bug-for-bug compatible with link-format but started = morphing away from that. Because we didn=E2=80=99t want to =E2=80=9Cbreak= =E2=80=9D link-format by creating =E2=80=9Can almost but not entirely = unlike=E2=80=9D derivative, we stopped working on links-json and started = to pay attention to CoRAL for the next step towards a general = application format. So the assumption is that CoRAL will serve as the improved basis for = future applications that will include those now handled by link-format, = but since this is a new format, there is no need to break the existing = applications of link-format. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Nov 11 11:41:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EE71208A9 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19-_5ClRdi2W for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 084A4120024 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com with SMTP id m6so9142694vsn.13 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:41:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=n676DJmbbxtWx8cJLgntdwmWkKYWooHf+kokyrHN3IU=; b=hLs8Msf3gL0d7hRTE/MdHHepBZ+Cyfa1qxW9cTCALde4G6SBQBfwBCJwhC9zZc//8e IlViVQoMU7fHfFdzOXtSR6qEsXd59Rpab3KkGFTDUixqfQNE90i4xM1iq0FSQSV2z0oY 4eykRnTinKtpASbYM63b36Ye5PJWtxoUkC/QKiQhgEPtBNCryX4nqX5+OMmM2USpqQX6 LmSPmOMSC9lBk9ZZ7gfIA2zuJrLSOOxanrJIrSMXFXLEhJ3lEWodMailz6To6e6KY/Ag TN/tep1R5kzMd0ajsun51mkK3G6AXxW24HeDzYj6441x/ikzAl3hvbqAGRBgjFDJDJd1 atRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=n676DJmbbxtWx8cJLgntdwmWkKYWooHf+kokyrHN3IU=; b=KzZtjKYRIyziBPzV0z+mc7F6NQFxWIxIjeRb1XIl0IElOliIiDJ3O8wsz3hUigVXS1 pJe+Ce01zjGixQ9oonqsx7HTeWLoeyP07cl+T4j4hnMSZnXwP3UA5NdDxjtdF7AvZHgI NtsxbPJJnffThexg3qkqCwqvq2Xx2vgs92TA31iIp3TnpH0d0bKruB7QbJGryTcPPpAj cSrQbELJ3a5d2cYRuF0CkaJb1UmhKmAqmWPdjDyoh3oHZJDo8Kn8E8CYapNAhXLQdnMO +wqiOHbq6IhT+KBt0HbfDJgGISkvwwFYttpk0EDSaFz+aDT1+qR7HlX7veffXslvEApf A8vA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVRW36BWKtMGbowyhADctY680yFFQWGh5Rzxxh+D2rmJCQCC6/P qlmZrtpXvVLTI+NxaVHJOSJi+e1FgvQFdQrfMtztypGo4DI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwQPK1KBGvGPE3PurZ8WnsXOXSC4Lfb98jWQdHUrbQn5nf3wAWcy9WWpESF1KXW0GvzCPGrrrXlLyyMKD7BwCE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:75c:: with SMTP id v28mr8695302vsg.146.1573501290604; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:41:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Pascal Urien Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 20:41:19 +0100 Message-ID: To: core Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007aee3f0597175180" Archived-At: Subject: [core] bMAC draft for constraint nodes X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 19:41:43 -0000 --0000000000007aee3f0597175180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More details in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-urien-core-bmac-00 The goal of the bijective MAC (bMAC) is to compute an integrity value, which cannot be guessed by off-line malicious software. For classical keyed MACs, MAC is computed according to a fixed order. In the bijective MAC, the content of N addresses (A[0]...A[N-1]) (N =3D #FLASH= + #SRAM=E2=80=A6) is hashed according to a hash function H and a permutation = P (i.e. bijective application in [0,N-1]) so that : bMAC(A, P) =3D H( A[P(0)] || A[P(1)] ... || A[P(N-1)] The bMAC key is the permutation P. The number of permutations for N addresses is N!, as an illustration 35! is greater than 2**128. So the computation of the bMAC requires the knowledge of the whole memory; this is trivial for genuine software, but it may be very difficult for corrupted software. Why is it difficult for a malicious software to compute bMAC?. Because it must maintains a copy of the original software, what can be impossible if the whole memory space is required for bMAC computation, especially in harward architecture. We build permutations in [1,q-1], with q prime, q being greater than N+1. In Z/pZ, numbers prime with p-1 are called generators (gi), i.e. gi**x with x in [1,q-1] is a permutation in [1,q-1]; so there are phi(p-1) generators phi being the Euler number. This entropy may be increased by the composition of multiple permutations, for example P(s2,g2,s1,g1)(x) =3D s2.(g2 ** (s1.g1**x)) with s1, s2 in [q-1] and g1,g2 generators. If the memory size is less than 2**16 calculations work with 32 bits numbers; if the memory size is less than 2**32, calculations work with 64 bits numbers. For example with 8 bits (AVR) processors and clock in 12/16 MHz range the computing time (for P(s2,g2,s1,g1) is about 1ms/byte. Here is a simple code for bMAC calculation. H is a SHA3-256 KECCAK hash function, the address space is N=3D 9664, the prime number q is 9733. With = a 8 bits processor, 12MHz clock, the bMAC is computed in about 10s, i.e. 1ms per byte. Computations are performed with 32 bits numbers. uint32-t x,y,bitn,v,gi[13]; uint32-t PRIME, g1=3Da-generator, s1=3Da-value, g2=3Da-generator; bool tohash; PRIME =3D9733; H.reset(); gi[0]=3D g2; for (int n=3D1;n<=3D13;n++) gi[n] =3D (gi[n-1] * gi[n-1]) % PRIME; x=3D s1; for(int i=3D1;i>1; } v =3D (y-1); // if address v exists, read the v address content A(v) // tohash=3Dtrue ; if (tohash) H.update(A(v)); } H.dofinal(); thoughts ? --0000000000007aee3f0597175180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The goal of the bijective MAC (bMAC) is = to compute an integrity value, which cannot be guessed by off-line maliciou= s software.
For classical keyed MACs, MAC is computed according to a fix= ed order. In the bijective MAC, the content of N addresses (A[0]...A[N-1]) = (N =3D #FLASH+ #SRAM=E2=80=A6) is hashed according to a hash function H and= a permutation P (i.e. bijective application in [0,N-1]) so that :
bMAC(= A, P) =3D H( A[P(0)] || A[P(1)] ... || A[P(N-1)]
The bMAC key is the pe= rmutation P. The number of permutations for N addresses is N!, as an illust= ration 35! is greater than 2**128. So the computation of the bMAC requires = the knowledge of the whole memory; this is trivial for genuine software, bu= t it may be very difficult for corrupted software.
Why is it difficult f= or a malicious software to compute bMAC?. Because it must maintains a copy = of the original software, what can be impossible if the whole memory space = is required for bMAC computation, especially in harward architecture.
We= build permutations in [1,q-1], with q prime, q being greater than N+1. In = Z/pZ, numbers prime with p-1 are called generators (gi), i.e. gi**x with x = in [1,q-1] is a permutation in [1,q-1]; so there are phi(p-1) generators ph= i being the Euler number. This entropy may be increased by the composition = of multiple permutations, for example P(s2,g2,s1,g1)(x) =3D s2.(g2 ** (s1.g= 1**x)) with s1, s2 in [q-1] and g1,g2 generators.
If the memory size is = less than 2**16 calculations work with 32 bits numbers; if the memory size = is less than 2**32, calculations work with 64 bits numbers. For example wit= h 8 bits (AVR) processors and clock in 12/16 MHz range the computing time (= for P(s2,g2,s1,g1) is about 1ms/byte.

Here is a simple code for bMA= C calculation. H is a SHA3-256 KECCAK hash function, the address space is N= =3D 9664, the prime number q is 9733. With a 8 bits processor, 12MHz clock,= the bMAC is computed in about 10s, i.e. 1ms per byte. Computations are per= formed with 32 bits numbers.

uint32-t x,y,bitn,v,gi[13];<= br>uint32-t PRIME, g1=3Da-generator, s1=3Da-value, g2=3Da-generator;
boo= l tohash;

PRIME =3D9733;
H.reset(); =C2=A0

gi[0]=3D g2;for (int n=3D1;n<=3D13;n++)
gi[n] =3D (gi[n-1] * gi[n-1]) % PRIME;
x=3D s1;

for(int i=3D1;i<PRIME;i++)
=C2=A0 { tohash =3D = false
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 x =3D (x*g1) % PRIME;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bitn=3Dx;
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 y=3D1;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for (int n=3D1;n<=3D14;n++)
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 { if ( (bitn & 0x1) =3D=3D 0x1) =C2=A0y =3D (y*gi[n-1]) % PR= IME;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bitn =3D bitn >>1;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 v =3D (y-1);
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // if address v exists, read t= he v address content A(v)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // tohash=3Dtrue ;
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 if (tohash) H.update(A(v));
=C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 H.dofinal();
=
thoughts ?
--0000000000007aee3f0597175180-- From nobody Mon Nov 11 15:17:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222E41200E3; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:17:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9ezinecceUw; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B1D41200B5; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:17:36 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: 'Core WG mailing list' Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:17:34 -0800 Message-ID: <004501d598e6$34bd7830$9e386890$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdWYOY3vmCyjz4VYRmuWEjaTvSz+EA== X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review of draft-dijk-core-groupcomm-bis-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 23:17:49 -0000 Here is a fast read through of the document. Overall it looks to be a good document. Jim 1. Abstract needs to note the obsoletes and update actions someplace. Also put into the introduction ( found in section 1.1 - might need to be earlier - depends on how the IESG feels). 2. Section 2.1.1 - I like the definition of a group here in many ways. I am wondering if it needs to be extended to deal with the prospective observe protocol (which might be below where I am reading) that was discussed in the virtual. In that case we are talking about an endpoint listening on the multicast address, but not as a server but looking for responses which corollate to a request. 3. Section 2.2.1, para 4 - This criteria does not seem reasonable. If it returns an error and then would return a success this seems to say that second response ought to be suppressed. 4. Section 2.2.1 - I think that the section on freeing up a token for unicast responses should be updated to deal with the change made in the draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag. 5. Section 2.3.2 - is the last paragraph misplaced? 6. Section 5.2.3 - I think that this section needs a new title. It does not make any sense to me when I read it. I think you mean "Countering Attacks" 7. Section 5.2.3 - You make some grandiose statements about the fact that these attacks are countered without given any idea of how or where to go to find out how. 8. Security considerations. Should there be some type of statement that since all messages are non-confirmable, there is now way for a client to know if an attacker is capturing the packets for later replay? Nits Section 2.1.4, para 3 - s/participating to group/participating in group/ Section 2.2.1 s/but it MAY suppress this response if selected so by the server application/but the server MAY suppress the response if the server chooses/ s/is not standardized yet currently/ either yet or currently but not both section 4 s/so still allowing/while still allowing/ From nobody Tue Nov 12 11:05:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823E012004D; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:05:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hcRzdNNLeqn7; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90D1D12084A; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:05:37 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: 'Core WG mailing list' Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:05:35 -0800 Message-ID: <00a601d5998c$2b4c4eb0$81e4ec10$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdWY5kVK66dKx0ceTyyGdV9Wl+6pzA== X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Review draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-06 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 19:05:45 -0000 Here is a first read review of this document. * Section 1 - In the last paragraph you might want to mention that using DTLS for doing hop-by-hop protection protects the routing information of the packet from observers. * Section 2.1 - If I don't distribute a master salt - does that mean the old value is absent or kept? Working is a little bit ambiguous. * Section 2.1 - I am wondering if this section should contain some information about how a client/server should handle key material in the event of a roll over. * Section 2.2 - remove /including a Partial IV/ from the second paragraph. A better answer would be /for that group/ * Section 3.1 - s/is extended as follows/is built differently./ From the current sentence, I expected the as follows to be in the next sentence. * Section 3.1.1 - The MAY include does not appear to match the CDDL structure below - which is correct? * Section 3.X - Should there be something about the use of the 'kid context' parameter as a part of this section? * Section 4.1 - You need to define 's' someplace and also, what is the bit for it? This means that you need to redefined the kid context definition better or just refer to the definition in RFC 8613 since you are no longer doing anything new from that document. Not restating leads to fewer errors. * Appendix A - I think there may be a problem with the term "member of a group" between this document and draft-dijk-core-groupcomm. This document includes all clients, while that document only incudes the servers. This may cause future problems. Jim From nobody Wed Nov 13 03:15:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D20812003F for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 03:15:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=iotconsultancynl.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9fwQt8tO37pp for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 03:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr80125.outbound.protection.outlook.com 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LnhodG1sDQpbNl0gaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL3JmYzgyODgjc2VjdGlvbi0z LjMNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCmNv cmUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpjb3JlQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NvcmUNCg== From nobody Wed Nov 13 11:58:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B107B12004A; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:58:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.607 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.607 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l58nn6m9aQ2t; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7543912003E; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:57:55 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: 'Core WG mailing list' Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 03:57:53 +0800 Message-ID: <000001d59a5c$a421b980$ec652c80$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWaWJIzzyrb+anYSkS+mTNHC25uXA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 19:58:02 -0000 In section 8.4 it might be useful to distinguish between two different instances of the first case. There is a difference between a server which receives a message using an old context, which it makes more sense to ignore and a client receiving a response from a server that is using the same context as the request was sent in. It makes more sense to hang onto the context in the second case than in the first case. There is also a question of should the server respond in a different context than the response was in. That point also should be clarified. Jim From nobody Thu Nov 14 15:59:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FA812006E; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:59:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.106 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g1ku6yDd7lDi; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C0B412006D; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:59:13 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: 'Core WG mailing list' Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 07:59:12 +0800 Message-ID: <006301d59b47$849b9630$8dd2c290$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWbRwUhB1/ab8ZOS02+42mkZIelcg== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 23:59:22 -0000 Open question In working through all of the roll over cases I am dealing with, I have a question. The key identifier is a required field in all response messages. Is the group identifier a required field in all response messages or is it only required under certain circumstances? The circumstances would be if the key context is not the same as the (original?) request. Not too sure what the answer is going to be if you are looking at a sequence of observe responses where you would really like to stop sending the group identifier if it is not needed any more. Jim From nobody Sat Nov 16 23:09:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810081200A1 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:09:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dK_gQTVtS8SI for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4475F120041 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com ([209.85.222.180]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iWEgY-0007Hg-LY; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:09:26 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 15so11728214qkh.6 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:09:26 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVYWNveXWXagEhK/d9QTxnAOTS0sW7PeS6xW3QcGM3jVJYRbFxY FTb5y3uYN9GqgzoBCVJR2Qrk64KdIT77zJldw+E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyNzQMQbES7+FZ8uJzO8Rm+H8GpWdiz+7u3doI4OD0bU80mGO6fBmO/doaxIdiRhBXp/LBllp6BlGo5VruQGf4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:76c6:: with SMTP id r189mr18481655qkc.303.1573974565454; Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:09:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Klaus Hartke Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:08:49 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1573974569; bf78ed52; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iWEgY-0007Hg-LY Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Core Link Format X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 07:09:31 -0000 I tried to remember where I had seen those broken Link Format implementations. I've found some of them now again. It's Leshan and Wakaama: > * The rules for the context of a link ("...origin of the target > URI...") [2] are a constant source of unawareness/confusion and > mis-implementation. Wakaama seems to completely ignore the existence of the 'anchor' attribute. [1] > * The "hosts" link relation type [3] has really, really weird > semantics (a featureless relation between a host and a resource, where > determining the host relies on the weird rules for the link context). Wakaama seems to completely ignore the existence of link relation types. [1] > * Despite the appearance of simplicity, parsing Link Format is often > more difficult than anticipated by implementers. For example, I've > seen implementations that just split the input by ';' and assume that > each resulting substring must be one link, regardless of where the ';' > occurs. (Of course, links are separated by ',' and not ';'.) Leshan splits by ',', regardless of where the ',' occurs. [2] > * Processing URI references correctly is also really hard to get > right. On constrained devices, implementations often don't want to pay > the price for a full URI parser and just do some simple string > manipulation instead. For example, I've seen implementations that > completely disregard the existence of percent encoding and dot > segments. Wakaama doesn't seem to do any kind of percent encoding or dot segment processing. [1] Overall, it seems that LwM2M implementations are interoperable on the basis of an informally-specified subset of Link Format. That might work out for LwM2M, but I think it highlights exactly the problem with Link Format. :-) Klaus [1] https://github.com/eclipse/wakaama/blob/31d64c0c41fae9653c1fa53ef58d1a44e49017fa/core/registration.c#L1279-L1447 [2] https://github.com/eclipse/leshan/blob/f512b574797e852f8e883641ab0df852bebb7fcd/leshan-core/src/main/java/org/eclipse/leshan/Link.java#L119-L160 From nobody Mon Nov 18 20:19:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C30F12090A for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:19:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no 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+0000 From: Klaus Hartke To: "core@ietf.org" , "t2trg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 Thread-Index: AdWVSfoYB2TUWjUpRwC2Yf0FO5tGQgJRZ8AA Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:19:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=klaus.hartke@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [31.133.129.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9cff35a7-a698-41f8-68ec-08d76ca7aae8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6438: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5236; x-forefront-prvs: 022649CC2C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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UbjU6gmV7olqUrEF13H4a++y+EDsaLpr20sAopTcSE2XV8uoIFHRzJfI8jv46044Iq5cmXSaRq1an0Y0AND+xGvVMgsypOXT4OPLVdvvCMpOm8N3l3nzf6i/svph9oZ1k0nF4Bq+4d0lZ4Te2bpJdGOvDWWXP6xai+ZoO+HBxajEZJbNetUC0KGTts+afViV9t/IBJn2g729HJLU09tQTRDm0V1edCHGW6sJ9MVeIyltD/n7IsmStbtBCQdcULBs8CHIR7QvGq7ApVj/lpdyXvfYDZko+mhRV059aykdIpC411vsfXamqlj/kCooo/8vNM7HIGCpg34QtMoTrFwlx03eAh7s+CvEAO1kQU2bT+dCNArAQzdRMJ/BetI4braBk1c6P+CxDZuOcvdFSWAcLJa4butvesmh9vSN2c9DyRqb1kKTJ9RJIEVfD9QzXgvrhVP88I9ofFygnTtiMWYj8WdLrtrvMxHIPJ2RilF0B+0= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01D59E98.E715C980" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9cff35a7-a698-41f8-68ec-08d76ca7aae8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Nov 2019 04:19:27.8034 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UxLyoA2N/yesD9a25ZP7zhtBiY4lZ38l9OrNAas7eL8RKztDLKZ6Guek8m5gqdk4YmI44h2JsfRy1Wc1cK0CA5kUwwtO3O1Pw/EXxjGo7W4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6438 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:19:39 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D59E98.E715C980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We will try to set up a WebEx for remote participation (best effort, no promises): https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1a205c2d62d19a9686dd35ab848c7052 Klaus > -----Original Message----- > From: T2TRG On Behalf Of Klaus Hartke > Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 10:23 AM > To: core@ietf.org; t2trg@irtf.org > Subject: [T2TRG] CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 > > We're planning another side-meeting on Applications in Constrained RESTful > Environments at IETF106 in Singapore. > > Proposed Topics > > * Problem Details for CoRE Applications > [1] [2] > > How to carry machine-readable details of errors in > CoAP responses to avoid the need to define a new > error response format for each CoRE application? > > * Extensibility and Code Points in CoRE Applications > [2] [3] [4] > > How to mint identifiers for semantic vocabulary > (such as identifiers for error conditions in above > problem details) that are efficient on the wire > and have a low barrier to entry? > > * Specification of CoRE Applications > [5] [6] [7] > > How to specify the interfaces of CoRE applications > in Internet Drafts? > > When > > Tuesday Afternoon session III (17:10-18:40) > > Where > > Room "Butterworth" [8] > > Welcome! ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D59E98.E715C980 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JBjofkBfX3Ma for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CEB51208B0 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47HJH9317Yzyqh; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:03:33 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595843408.635004-d3db17877156f65add15a79ee85d3b89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:03:30 +0800 Message-Id: To: "core@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_CoRE_Working_Group_Adoption_call_f?= =?utf-8?q?or_draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:03:41 -0000 In Montreal, we said we were going to issue an adoption call for = draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 right away. We didn=E2=80=99t, and the = chairs need to apologize. (Working group adoption of this was delayed for a while, during which = people could judge the impact of the updated IPR declaration. This = waiting time was completed by Montreal.) This message starts a three-week working group adoption call. (Two weeks because the WG call partially overlaps an IETF and the US = Thanksgiving week.) If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. Note that according to IETF procedures the mere presence of IPR claims = on the document is by itself not a sufficient reason to reject a = document that would otherwise go forward; however, if you have = considered the terms of the IPR declaration and see a problem with = agreeing on a spec encumbered with those terms, please do tell us. (In = Montreal, by the sense of the room, that seemed not to be the case.) Please remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details, just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place); you are encouraged to mention any issues that you = already know. Please respond to core@ietf.org, or exceptionally to = core-chairs@ietf.org (for off-list comments). This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of December 3rd. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Nov 19 00:04:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F0A12084A; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:04:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.110.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157415067493.21647.5365286350886272757.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:04:34 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] The CORE WG has placed draft-jarvinen-core-fasor in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:04:35 -0000 The CORE WG has placed draft-jarvinen-core-fasor in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Carsten Bormann) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jarvinen-core-fasor/ From nobody Tue Nov 19 01:44:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9CF1200CE for ; 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Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:44:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:43:58 +0800 From: =?utf-8?Q?Jaime=20Jim=C3=A9nez?= To: Klaus Hartke Cc: "core@ietf.org" , "t2trg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <20191119094358.no7opmrt4drbzpgz@EMB-918HFH01> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:44:10 -0000 Minutes: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-106-applications On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 04:19:27AM +0000, Klaus Hartke wrote: > We will try to set up a WebEx for remote participation (best effort, no > promises): > > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1a205c2d62d19a9686dd35ab848c7052 > > Klaus > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: T2TRG On Behalf Of Klaus Hartke > > Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 10:23 AM > > To: core@ietf.org; t2trg@irtf.org > > Subject: [T2TRG] CoRE Applications side-meeting @IETF106 > > > > We're planning another side-meeting on Applications in Constrained RESTful > > Environments at IETF106 in Singapore. > > > > Proposed Topics > > > > * Problem Details for CoRE Applications > > [1] [2] > > > > How to carry machine-readable details of errors in > > CoAP responses to avoid the need to define a new > > error response format for each CoRE application? > > > > * Extensibility and Code Points in CoRE Applications > > [2] [3] [4] > > > > How to mint identifiers for semantic vocabulary > > (such as identifiers for error conditions in above > > problem details) that are efficient on the wire > > and have a low barrier to entry? > > > > * Specification of CoRE Applications > > [5] [6] [7] > > > > How to specify the interfaces of CoRE applications > > in Internet Drafts? > > > > When > > > > Tuesday Afternoon session III (17:10-18:40) > > > > Where > > > > Room "Butterworth" [8] > > > > Welcome! > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue Nov 19 04:57:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 083D0120916 for ; 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Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:57:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:e510:c0e1:d0ea:f6c4]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E29D746; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:57:36 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 578919 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 12:57:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:57:33 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 12:57:43 -0000 --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Alexey, hello CoRE, thank you for your review. I'll only answer to points here that actually need responses or further comments from the group. Everything else is directly taken up as to be trivially fixed. On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 05:06:45PM +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > In 4.3: > =A0 The well-known entry points SHOULD be provided to enable unicast > discovery. >=20 > I don't see a new .well-known value being registered in the IANA > Considerations section. Have I misintepreted what this mean? This is referring to the existing .well-known/core discovery URI that is heavily used in RD. (The grouping of this requirement in the context of the section can be improved still). > In 4.3, 6th para: >=20 > =A0=A0 Clients of the RD > =A0=A0 SHOULD therefore accept URIs of all schemes they support, both as > =A0=A0 URIs and relative references, >=20 > Did you mean to say "absolute URIs"? Relative URIs are still URIs (and later points on "absolute URI" / "relative URI") Klaus answered that point very well. We've had the "absolute URI" term in there for quite some time until exactly what he said was pointed out; the wording should now be consistent of "relative references" and "URIs", which are occasionally annotate as "full URIs" to emphasise that relative references are not meant. The term "path-absolute form" is taken from relative references' ABNF, and I did not find any more commmon-language experssion for "relative reference and not a URI", especially as more exotic forms like "//host/path" are undesirable in those places as well. > In 5.3, 1st para: >=20 > =A0=A0 This section describes how the registering endpoint can maintain t= he > =A0=A0 registrations that it created.=A0 The registering endpoint can be = the > =A0=A0 registrant-ep or the CT.=A0 An endpoint SHOULD NOT use this interf= ace >=20 > Why SHOULD NOT (instead of MUST NOT) and how is this enforced? This is more expressing the intention than anything enforcable. Frankly, it is a bit imprecise: The goal is to discourage any agents enumerating registrations from the endpoint lookup and trying to enhance them. Endpoints switching addresses (thus technically becoming different endpoints) and updating their registration is encouraged. There are some cases in the middle we probably don't want to rule out but caution against, invoking "SHOULD"'s "know what you're doing" which we may not want to rule out (but have not discussed). In the end, enforcement is up to the security policy -- if an agent knows a registration URI and has the authorization to act on it, that will succeed. > In 6.2: >=20 > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 search :=3D=A0 Search criteria for limiting the number of= results > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (optional). >=20 > I think this is undespecified. >=20 > Can you give me an example? The description for this is above that interface description in the "A link matches a search criterion if" paragraph. Is your point about this being underspecified about the description as a whole, or just about the discoverability of the text (which should be easy to fix with something just a bit more elaborate than "(see above)" note)? Note that in the URI-Template, it says "search*", with the explode modifier ("*") indicating that any otherwise unmatched query parameters go into an associative array named "search". The first two examples right after that section are "search" examples. In the "/rd-lookup/res?rt=3Dtemperature" example, search is matched as a [("rt", "temperature")] associative array. > In 9.3: >=20 > =A0=A0 o=A0 validity requirements if any, and >=20 > Does this include syntax? If structured fields are registered, yes -- but I expect most entries to be simple like "integer" (implying "ASCII encoded decimal integer"). > At the end of section 9.3: > =A0=A0 It is expected that the registry will receive between 5 and 50 > registrations in total over the next years. >=20 > This will not age well! Maybe remove this text from the document and add = it > to the spherding write-up? Doesn't this need to be in the requesting document, per BCP26's "It is also a good idea to include, when possible, a sense of whether many registrations are expected over time, or if the registry is expected to be updated infrequently or in exceptional circumstances only."? But if not, I'll remove the paragraph and alert Jaime as the shepherd. > I think the following reference is Normative the way it is used in the > document: >=20 > =A0=A0 [I-D.ietf-core-rd-dns-sd] Stok, P., Koster, M., and C. Amsuess, "C= oRE > Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping", draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-05 (work in > progress), July 2019. Oh please not. I suppose this is due to "The use of DNS facilities is described in [rd-dns-sd]" being listed as a recommended way, or are there more aspects to it? The DNS-SD component has been holding RD back quite a bit, so if it's that recommendation, I assume the group might want to reconsider recommending that mechanism for discovering the RD. Kind regards Christian --=20 Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift. That is why it is called the present. -- ancient saying --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl3T5roACgkQOY0REtOk veFvkA/+N8STQvgY9hPVDxW2GbdQqDka3KiNNcjMtyijQsB9OOQgjlxIDAmIfBNK oy1EHOAxo3yXyMQz4cM9jvBhHQ1afpaGpNXTVYQkP/gO2bkR8HaUvQHFJgI0bnRn kKGEujCFKnJXEb/xE8XEOpGbV3U69KGXsadJTE98AEP2yv7b6i6g5lvy4MGuORcE 8hscO46/dCop/gx1yaRBALF/DFgKDEHHJlKZRURJMOL0R2RImDZ9OzbnBUBhwWb/ P3dg3wUgKF2Z7tcijEiuTUSbHr57cJKLncEzzE6GPkTHYQ+xKvbizi+MXxSozacU Uzxvcq8dS0Owb3RNzA+pUZQLjau6HncYfXmAo1DxnNZH7jGoKsU5yiBiJl382z8f yy0incFky8XX4WMLRKzC4qpLaglBkQr4SMN9HQgiV0Qw3QRszyYh41GNn7UNL9s0 AtvEaCMUwpeaWJ/TNvPOZjQWZZy0DiRhKU7xHG3khhwK/+Wy0gizupzFQ1V1OkTi SbGXcXhxDVpK3SGCqucVqnUYGDfQzqvjUdRX7lcqIuHV7K4wG+Pb40VTNmrOrB8g V/AnzH6ZJ17Ejqog2uM6yhkDH3CeeZ85dKWDPGhRJPNU2aNRFWJi7/qqY9zIQu0q hu4hDxL0bXZHZbX//eiX7CoSHi9Ih8/KJxerK2nYaYEXytu9lZ8= =JpSi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI-- From nobody Tue Nov 19 14:12:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22FCA120903 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:12:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QLV5RpONoUfY for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 379361200C3 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-942f.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-942f.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.148.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47Hg6t4MjNz1002; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:12:38 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:12:35 +0800 Cc: Alexey Melnikov , "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595894353.110797-0e345fb98f4b1ad04cab15cdb40aa12c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 22:12:43 -0000 On Nov 19, 2019, at 20:57, Christian Ams=C3=BCss = wrote: >=20 >> I think the following reference is Normative the way it is used in = the >> document: >>=20 >> [I-D.ietf-core-rd-dns-sd] Stok, P., Koster, M., and C. Amsuess, = "CoRE >> Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping", draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-05 = (work in >> progress), July 2019. >=20 > Oh please not. >=20 > I suppose this is due to "The use of DNS facilities is described in > [rd-dns-sd]" being listed as a recommended way, or are there more > aspects to it? >=20 > The DNS-SD component has been holding RD back quite a bit, so if it's = that > recommendation, I assume the group might want to reconsider = recommending > that mechanism for discovering the RD. (With chair hat:) I do not have the impression that we will have completion on rd-dns-sd = soon; actually progress is pretty much stalled right now due to high = load on everyone in the author team (which shrank recently), who tend to = see rd-dns-sd as second priority. (As a co-author of RD, so without a chair hat:) I don=E2=80=99t see any alternative to removing anything that would = create a normative reference. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Nov 19 14:15:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF501209BD for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:15:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_SHORT=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YC3q9rqqPKxR for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 777021200C3 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-942f.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-942f.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.148.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47HgBY4rtLzyyy; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:15:49 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595894544.973973-e0c54c4c2150225e0d3c4098427dc995 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:15:47 +0800 Message-Id: To: core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [core] CoRE@IETF106: Updated slide set X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 22:15:53 -0000 I have uploaded an updated slide set that is now reasonably complete for = today=E2=80=99s topics: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-core-consoli= dated-slides Presenters: Please do check that your slides are in, readable, and the = current version. See you in three-and-roughly-three-quarters hours in room Sophia or in = Meetecho. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Nov 19 17:37:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AFE12092A for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.82 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.82 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e8cMneroPK8k for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2447C120925 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3A53CA; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:37:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:37:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=9a2+H86HPOaNeXrmxjhcJxL8DsGAs1wzElHzS6nuO Ug=; b=XWxsN7vaQa2xA9C4/4TKKcrH2KplaQEa11pNMqR9UNO+sKel8gcpGOLRq P2G8jCM3f5tRqlAKLlMI1ogk2H+xxgKZ7QufL7/I/w0MjIEM6LDEKjHl01Ari3ZY pEs/41nBukz9ZcpzHAxeigV7rECsvugI42ARnV/XBYanhysDGwgoNojGVZAFxhPG vrL2vbMztWRNkykkKNnEpE83fxBWhDT28iUT5fdThsBkkZ+VxYVdIDfm4F477BJm CgVa8qvcqvv+xjNmHH50Xk4fTOeWC4wmQGuD3KbU/RWusNxJTpOkqBdnU+5GEaD+ Q8+GLyOR2iSr7vV+z4se2ZpfVM8jA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudegledgfeehucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtugfgjgesthekredttddtudenucfhrhhomheplfgrihhm vgculfhimhornhgviicuoehjrghimhgvsehikhhirdhfiheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivg htfhdrohhrghenucfkphepfedurddufeefrddufeegrdduhedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgr ihhlfhhrohhmpehjrghimhgvsehikhhirdhfihenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: from EMB-918HFH01 (dhcp-8696.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.134.150]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D844A80059; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:37:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 09:37:10 +0800 From: =?utf-8?Q?Jaime=20Jim=C3=A9nez?= To: Christian =?utf-8?Q?Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: Alexey Melnikov , "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191120013710.tnrm54ygjurehjna@EMB-918HFH01> References: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 01:37:18 -0000 Hi, of those comments that are to be discussed by the group, or that have to do with the shepherding, here are my quick thoughts before the core session. > > At the end of section 9.3: > >    It is expected that the registry will receive between 5 and 50 > > registrations in total over the next years. > > > > This will not age well! Maybe remove this text from the document and add it > > to the spherding write-up? > > Doesn't this need to be in the requesting document, per BCP26's "It is > also a good idea to include, when possible, a sense of whether many > registrations are expected over time, or if the registry is expected to > be updated infrequently or in exceptional circumstances only."? > > But if not, I'll remove the paragraph and alert Jaime as the shepherd. Sounds good to me. > > > I think the following reference is Normative the way it is used in the > > document: > > > >    [I-D.ietf-core-rd-dns-sd] Stok, P., Koster, M., and C. Amsuess, "CoRE > > Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping", draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-05 (work in > > progress), July 2019. > > Oh please not. > > I suppose this is due to "The use of DNS facilities is described in > [rd-dns-sd]" being listed as a recommended way, or are there more > aspects to it? > > The DNS-SD component has been holding RD back quite a bit, so if it's that > recommendation, I assume the group might want to reconsider recommending > that mechanism for discovering the RD. > RD-DNS-SD would benefit a lot from a review by Kerry Lynn. At this point of time I am not sure about who has deployed this component as I am not familiar with all SDOs. If we place a normative reference we might delay RD much further. So I agree with Christian on bringing this to the group, explaining the implications. > > Kind regards > Christian > > -- > Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift. That > is why it is called the present. > -- ancient saying > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Tue Nov 19 18:03:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A91512012C for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:03:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YuGwGfbqXaxv for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1265A1200E5 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD247481; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap1 ([10.202.2.51]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:03:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=BUc2jmG9mfbtFO0pG1Kf8v2h/0eA4MOK42CrTL4Ty 0o=; b=GqFzGywEXJKN4cwmA6rZodCvUrxd3MhLvTY0mvsC+eeCOVUxoZiZYhi4K tK1MrHGIQb5gntTmO264rgIqZbt+J+K3AnDJWnP+v9v3T402htFE96/6pbUjpADP HubNzuSVs0f/6ttiBgjpKYYK+c6cPC7bHf7RgyUULxLcn7ljg4pSp3V+nxM4lFn8 IBAG7rUW9JVzO1zKr3BMeWOGcruIWNM/M6SZeNn7QnGmw1J7Yso4u/m9RuqmV/h0 YyMLW21o+c3aJNhIfVaJ+M/hKMFKhBUSjtXh/e/u0h6Jai+yW2Yrgh0MazdvNjLI CiXrnZ8tQohPENyfZaCITIh1fXMZQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudegledggedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedftehl vgigvgihucfovghlnhhikhhovhdfuceorghlvgigvgihrdhmvghlnhhikhhovhesihhsoh guvgdrtghomheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegrlhgvgigvhidrmhgvlhhn ihhkohhvsehishhouggvrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9E3AAC200A4; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:03:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-578-g826f590-fmstable-20191119v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <481f9820-bcea-af6a-d5c4-d713be24d43d@isode.com> <20191119125733.GA8007@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:03:09 +0000 From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: "core@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] AD review of draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-23 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:03:33 -0000 Hi Christian, On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > Hello Alexey, > hello CoRE, >=20 > thank you for your review. I'll only answer to points here that actual= ly > need responses or further comments from the group. Everything else is > directly taken up as to be trivially fixed. >=20 > On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 05:06:45PM +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > In 4.3: > > =C2=A0 The well-known entry points SHOULD be provided to enable unic= ast > > discovery. > > > > I don't see a new .well-known value being registered in the IANA > > Considerations section. Have I misintepreted what this mean? >=20 > This is referring to the existing .well-known/core discovery URI that = is > heavily used in RD. I think you should update the above sentence to make this clear. > (The grouping of this requirement in the context of the section can be= > improved still). > > > In 4.3, 6th para: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Clients of the RD > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 SHOULD therefore accept URIs of all schemes they suppor= t, both as > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 URIs and relative references, > > > > Did you mean to say "absolute URIs"? Relative URIs are still URIs >=20 > (and later points on "absolute URI" / "relative URI") >=20 > Klaus answered that point very well. >=20 > We've had the "absolute URI" term in there for quite some time until > exactly what he said was pointed out; the wording should now be > consistent of "relative references" and "URIs", which are occasionally= > annotate as "full URIs" to emphasise that relative references are not > meant. The term "path-absolute form" is taken from relative references= ' > ABNF, and I did not find any more commmon-language experssion for > "relative reference and not a URI", especially as more exotic forms li= ke > "//host/path" are undesirable in those places as well. Ok, I will review my own comments and cross check the URI RFC. If I have= any questions, I will about them separately. > > In 5.3, 1st para: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 This section describes how the registering endpoint can= maintain the > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 registrations that it created.=C2=A0 The registering en= dpoint can be the > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 registrant-ep or the CT.=C2=A0 An endpoint SHOULD NOT u= se this interface > > > > Why SHOULD NOT (instead of MUST NOT) and how is this enforced? >=20 > This is more expressing the intention than anything enforcable. Frankl= y, > it is a bit imprecise: The goal is to discourage any agents enumeratin= g > registrations from the endpoint lookup and trying to enhance them. > Endpoints switching addresses (thus technically becoming different > endpoints) and updating their registration is encouraged. More text along the lines of your answer would improve the document. > There are some cases in the middle we probably don't want to rule out > but caution against, invoking "SHOULD"'s "know what you're doing" whic= h > we may not want to rule out (but have not discussed). >=20 > In the end, enforcement is up to the security policy -- if an agent > knows a registration URI and has the authorization to act on it, that > will succeed. >=20 >=20 > > In 6.2: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 search :=3D=C2=A0 Search criteria for= limiting the number of results > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (optional). > > > > I think this is undespecified. > > > > Can you give me an example? >=20 > The description for this is above that interface description in the "A= > link matches a search criterion if" paragraph. >=20 > Is your point about this being underspecified about the description as= a > whole, or just about the discoverability of the text (which should be > easy to fix with something just a bit more elaborate than "(see above)= " > note)? >=20 > Note that in the URI-Template, it says "search*", with the explode > modifier ("*") indicating that any otherwise unmatched query parameter= s > go into an associative array named "search". >=20 > The first two examples right after that section are "search" examples.= > In the "/rd-lookup/res?rt=3Dtemperature" example, search is matched as= a > [("rt", "temperature")] associative array. When I read the above I started to wonder where search criteria syntax i= s defined. I am still not entirely clear, so I think this needs to be cl= arified. > > In 9.3: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 validity requirements if any, and > > > > Does this include syntax? >=20 > If structured fields are registered, yes -- but I expect most entries = to > be simple like "integer" (implying "ASCII encoded decimal integer"). I suggest changing the above to "syntax and validity requirements if any= , and" >=20 > > At the end of section 9.3: > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 It is expected that the registry will receive between 5= and 50 > > registrations in total over the next years. > > > > This will not age well! Maybe remove this text from the document and= add it > > to the spherding write-up? >=20 > Doesn't this need to be in the requesting document, per BCP26's "It is= > also a good idea to include, when possible, a sense of whether many > registrations are expected over time, or if the registry is expected t= o > be updated infrequently or in exceptional circumstances only."? >=20 > But if not, I'll remove the paragraph and alert Jaime as the shepherd.= I suggest this be moved to the shepherding wrtite up. > > I think the following reference is Normative the way it is used in t= he > > document: > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-core-rd-dns-sd] Stok, P., Koster, M., and C. = Amsuess, "CoRE > > Resource Directory: DNS-SD mapping", draft-ietf-core-rd-dns-sd-05 (w= ork in > > progress), July 2019. >=20 > Oh please not. >=20 > I suppose this is due to "The use of DNS facilities is described in > [rd-dns-sd]" being listed as a recommended way, or are there more > aspects to it? >=20 > The DNS-SD component has been holding RD back quite a bit, so if it's = that > recommendation, I assume the group might want to reconsider recommendi= ng > that mechanism for discovering the RD. The WG started to discuss whether this is truly normative. I am awaiting= conclusion of this discussion. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Tue Nov 19 20:24:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A69A1201E0 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:24:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GQDMiPLRAA3Z for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B879120143 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 20:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7182E223A6; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:24:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=5tNwh+QCPC0P+zyOKoNmkt4ULxL5a mStYFcumS9Xyc0=; b=i45jvarZ3m9efkZP4EFJ1OJTDn4nF9j1Z762Hf7w9JU4x y9uNkL+FyDgMuzaQGY9c/6+hFZhLPib7cupl47Jx7hJFzyywNZ3+p+R+lONaowlW f5P9hCoBnIVBlazdfulrj4CeynyOtcPrLpf6Esi+KB1m1doB65IBCWQ2cB7SomHh JCh50WsxE+/XoYaTxX8H4QfjAtN2vNyCp02OdTjiu6zm6d1bEuXsWqA2pCO+MVbD PJRQ/dH6qICxkGGwTubF/ig9kM1Yx3k6BemOetnNYr5PdZamB44YvTZS0kwH2dtw mSoG5gBoYxp/KwuEm7fOAp/QsnO2lnkrbdl9K8Rqw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudegledgjedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvffukfggtggusehttdertddttddvnecuhfhrohhmpeflrghimhgvucfl ihhmrohnvgiiuceojhgrihhmvgesihhkihdrfhhiqeenucfkphepfedurddufeefrddufe egrdduhedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjrghimhgvsehikhhirdhfihen ucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: from EMB-918HFH01 (dhcp-8696.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.134.150]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A3DAB80061; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:24:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:24:20 +0800 From: =?utf-8?Q?Jaime=20Jim=C3=A9nez?= To: CoRE WG Cc: cabo@tzi.org, ietf@augustcellars.com, bilhanan.silverajan@tuni.fi, klaus.hartke@ericsson.com Message-ID: <20191120042420.yfcc2jdbl2oydese@EMB-918HFH01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [core] Reviewers for draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:24:27 -0000 Hi, since we have the CoRE session fresh, it'd be good to send a reminder to those of you who volunteered to review this draft. >From IETF 104 CB: Who want to review (4) Jim, Carsten, Bill and Klaus volunteered to review. 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Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:33:21 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 13:33:17 +0800 Cc: "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595920795.747981-4c4a9c8451e4851bbe5926189179fb25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 05:33:27 -0000 On Nov 20, 2019, at 13:06, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > - Does CoAP allow changing option values in retransmissions?=20 Yes, it actually encourages that, e.g.: The value is intended to be current at the time of transmission. Servers that provide resources with strict tolerances on the value of Max-Age SHOULD update the value before each retransmission.[=E2=80=A6] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.10.5 (The interesting part here is eventual consistency =E2=80=94 you can=E2=80= =99t be sure that the acknowledgement you get is actually for the most = recent retransmission.) 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FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: uoJ1Cy26lWmxxLRaG8AZxtb/ibf0fmcNMXPxlitgyJMWDZd9Z0ieSXjYLEZWjHUUztQOKascGUgyoemxd2d+wHQK2XvrBC5YJlJBPMqdwVQ93mHQWg+aYv1uqHI9o6Xab1uJi/s8thc7aeNHPEvDnNppKWL4gtCrhM0j97shZv7HqOk3bG2QQMzSNgyj4J9BcRQT29AyaNdRkEGbA4fbN9hl93PMx2VLNqXQu4r8npSUtzFWvoZwEJTmzOOkBSVvpeBEITPZ2VJGt3msRglbMcdG7bAhbEmcSeBockOpNRThTVWYu807lPWrycbmQEcqy6YoTHpFOF+24f/gJJPgJn7vel3qmGmwTUaiFSVPGCgqs5JUZ9A0VGE7hx1txlGYuiWywGiJm4DJuTVsgwO9fqF+Iv7N/O5KHOtrTQNDfe1gwDoWfOvTebTJty681k/EpSajxSanP4oLbmpqfwaF3csUs32Z3IgFCwGvwxHPn5c= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7c8a7425-3975-4e11-ee16-08d76d7f64da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Nov 2019 06:03:41.4889 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ABvQNVqEHmkGgUFDORWfN6dHOPqaer2KwIkvZ9YXjIOkx3eozMcClvUhE3Bbjt25kSdwEjnTtAZNtojGnC5wWqxg9ReCezt/9/S9ufjbkyE= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4155 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:03:46 -0000 SGksDQoNCiAgID4+IC0gRG9lcyBDb0FQIGFsbG93IGNoYW5naW5nIG9wdGlvbiB2YWx1ZXMgaW4g cmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb25zPyANCiAgID4gDQogICA+IFllcywgaXQgYWN0dWFsbHkgZW5jb3VyYWdl cyB0aGF0LCBlLmcuOg0KICAgPiANCiAgID4gICAgVGhlIHZhbHVlIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIHRvIGJl IGN1cnJlbnQgYXQgdGhlIHRpbWUgb2YgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLg0KICAgPiAgICBTZXJ2ZXJzIHRo YXQgcHJvdmlkZSByZXNvdXJjZXMgd2l0aCBzdHJpY3QgdG9sZXJhbmNlcyBvbiB0aGUgdmFsdWUg b2YNCiAgID4gICAgTWF4LUFnZSBTSE9VTEQgdXBkYXRlIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBiZWZvcmUgZWFjaCBy ZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbi5b4oCmXQ0KICAgPg0KICAgPiBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0 bWwvcmZjNzI1MiNzZWN0aW9uLTUuMTAuNQ0KDQogICBTbywgdGhhdCBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9ucyB3aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8gcGVyZm9ybSBhIGZ1bGwgcGFyc2Ugb2YgcmVjZWl2ZWQg cmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb25zLCBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIG9ubHkgcGFyc2luZyBlbm91Z2ggaW4gb3JkZXIg dG8gZGV0ZWN0IGEgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb24/DQoNCkluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBpZiBhIHJldHJhbnNt aXNzaW9uIGNvbnRhaW5zIHVwZGF0ZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24sIHJldHJhbnNtaXNzaW9ucyB3aWxs IGhhdmUgdG8gYmUgZXhwb3NlZCB0byB0aGUgYXBwbGljYXRpb24sIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGJlaW5n IGhhbmRsZWQgYnkgdGhlIHByb3RvY29sIHN0YWNrLg0KDQogICAgPiAoVGhlIGludGVyZXN0aW5n IHBhcnQgaGVyZSBpcyBldmVudHVhbCBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeSDigJQgeW91IGNhbuKAmXQgYmUgc3Vy ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBhY2tub3dsZWRnZW1lbnQgeW91IGdldCBpcyBhY3R1YWxseSBmb3IgdGhlIG1v c3QgcmVjZW50IHJldHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLikNCg0KICAgIFJldHJhbnNtaXNzaW9ucyBjYW4gYWxz byBiZSByZWNlaXZlZCBvdXQgb2Ygb3JkZXIsIGFuZCBpZiB0aGV5IGNvbnRhaW4gZGlmZmVyZW50 IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoZSByZWNlaXZlciBtYXkgbm90IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IGtub3cgd2hpY2gg aXMgdGhlIG1vc3QgcmVjZW50Lg0KDQogICAgUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KICAgIENocmlzdGVyDQogDQoN Cg== From nobody Tue Nov 19 23:03:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB22F12081B for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uIqV_mdEyGyP for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64622120818 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:03:24 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Core WG mailing list' References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:03:23 +0800 Message-ID: <022101d59f70$9a9cf9b0$cfd6ed10$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWfXIQJlpA/YMA0SUW7Q+YpysTACwAFA5Ag Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] FW: Review draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 07:03:32 -0000 Need to go here as well. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Schaad Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:03 PM To: 'draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery@ietf.org' Subject: Review draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 * Should this document be re-written to only use CoRAL-reef? * Introduction - You have the statement that generally one application group uses one OSCORE group. I don't know that I agree with this statement. It depends to a large extent of how you define an application group. For example, if you are looking at both administration and usage as being in the same App group then this is not a true statement. * Section 2 - If you want ACE-KEY-GROUPCOMM-OSCORE to be an information reference, then the definition for 'name' needs to be changed. * Section 2 - Just replace and use the correct terms for countersignature algorithm info and countersignature key info structures. * Section 3 - For 'app-gp' - the MAY is confusing to me. Better to say MUST occur once for each application group and MUST contain only a single application group. * Section 5 - I don't care if you specify the same application group multiple times. I don't want to have to figure out how to check this one thing and error. Plus the end result will always be the same anyway * Section 5.1 - I think the anchor in the response is supposed to be absent. * Section 6 - It looks like you are registering [2001:db8:4::4] twice - that looks like it will mess things up. * Section 6 - I am not sure why you are registering the app-grp on the individual device rather than on the group itself. That means that If I go in reverse, from the app group to the address of the app group, then I get the individual endpoints rather than the group multicast address. This might be done for somebody who wants to get the messages in the group and would be permitted to do so. From nobody Tue Nov 19 23:23:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F371312085D for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:23:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.helsinki.fi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59DpVd2fGSYg for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from script.cs.helsinki.fi (script.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.11.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40852120856 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:22:58 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM: Courier DKIM Filter v0.50+pk-2017-10-25 mail.cs.helsinki.fi Wed, 20 Nov 2019 09:22:52 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.helsinki.fi; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type; s=dkim20130528; bh=/U19Q/Ea+zacwQCgf 0Ap4VMq7nhYst2GOdSTjVF04hk=; b=kj3QqpX1V58QWkXrC6gYw5ZsRcn5nqGDS Pi5PWPQkmnvdC4CDtVCBrsM9sHDR022w55E6KPekqIZwUpB4ygr7xuX08q+rAeNK ZjQsh1yfZ4mxUMR/0JFKx1SDdm2+sDCN2kJrOoDEB029Nx/Lu21g2OkGxNXxnLih RNLubbmnbw= Received: from dhcp-9fb6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9fb6.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.159.182]) (AUTH: PLAIN kojo, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-GCM-SHA384) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with ESMTPSA; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 09:22:50 +0200 id 00000000005A0040.000000005DD4E9CB.0000190D Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 09:22:48 +0200 (EET) From: Markku Kojo To: Christer Holmberg cc: "core@ietf.org" , "=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Ilpo_J=E4rvinen?=" In-Reply-To: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> Message-ID: References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (DEB 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 07:23:01 -0000 Hi Christer, thanks for the comments/questions. Please see inline. On Wed, 20 Nov 2019, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I took a look at the FASOR draft, and I have a few comments and questions. > > > Q1: > > Section 4.4. says: > > "The Retransmission Count Option is used to distinguish whether an > Acknowledgement message arrives for the original transmission or one > of the retransmissions of a Confirmable message." > > - I assume this is achieved by, once it has been confirmed that the > receiver supports the option, incrementing the counter value in each > retransmitted message. However, I cannot find that described anywhere. > The text only says that the value of the original transmission is zero. Right, but the text says it just with a bit different phrasing. In the second but last para of Sec 4.4: "Retransmissions, if any, carry the ordinal number of the retransmission." > - Does CoAP allow changing option values in retransmissions? I cannot > find any text about that in RFC 7252 that forbids it, but my general > assumption is that retransmitted messages are identical. It does allow, just like Carsten already confirmed. > Q2: > > Section 4.4. says: > > "However, the Retransmission Count Option cannot be used with an Empty > Acknowledgement (or Reset) message because the CoAP protocol > specification [RFC7252] does not allow adding options to an Empty > message. Therefore, Retransmission Count Option is useful only for > the common case of Piggybacked Response." > > - This means that the count option cannot be used when the receiver is > a proxy, since a proxy will typically send an empty acknowledgement when > it receives a message. Yes, that's what it means and that's why it's an optional enhancement. Unfortunately, CoAP didn't include such a feature in its base spec. And I believe the reason for this was that the base spec. didn't include any kind of RTT measurements for the RTO timer, so it would have been unnecessary. This could have been achieved by stealing 2-3 bits from the Message ID, for example. Alternatively, it could still be possible to introduce a new type of message, an Empty Message with options, I believe. This would allow support for delivering options in an empty ack. Such an empty ack message would be needed also for other purpuses, for example, if at some point support for ECN is seen useful for CoAP (over UDP). Otherwise, there seems not to be any other way to provide the necessary feedback. > Q3: > > Section 4.4 says: > > "The original transmission of a request is indicated with the number > 0, except when sending the first request to a new destination > endpoint. The first original transmission of the request to a new > endpoint carries the number 255 (0xFF) and is interpreted the same as > an original transmission carrying the number 0." > > - What is meant by "new" endpoint? Does the sender have to remember the > endpoints it has previously communicated with? If so, for how long? Endpoint means how it is defined in the base spec (RFC 7252): Endpoint An entity participating in the CoAP protocol. Colloquially, an endpoint lives on a "Node", although "Host" would be more consistent with Internet standards usage, and is further identified by transport-layer multiplexing information that can include a UDP port number and a security association (Section 4.1). Just like a CoCoA sender, a FASOR sender needs to maintain an RTO timer per endpoint, i.e., it needs to remember the endpoints. For how long, is not specified. However, from the option usage point of view it would be just ok to forget about an endpoint at any point and consider it as a new endpoint next time the sender communicates with it. This would just mean that when sending to the same endpoint next time we cannot leverage the empty option value optimization of CoAP (i.e., need to include the special value 255 (0xFF) in the option and confirm again that the receiver supports the option). Forgeting about the RTO timer (and corresponding RTT estimate would be possible too (just like in RFC 6298), but is not advisable as it would affect the accuracy of the RTT estimation. > Q4: > > Section 4.5 describes how, as an alternative solution, the Token can be > used to exchange count information. > > - How would that work? Would you use different Token values in each > retransmission? Again, I am not sure whether CoAP explicitly forbids > that, but I assume that is not the intention. Yes, it should work just fine. It is all up to the client to decide how it generates the token values. Servers just echo it back without modification. Best regards, /Markku > > Regards, > > Christer > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > From nobody Wed Nov 20 02:07:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817551208D2 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:07:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.412 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.412 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7b96Apflhhzr for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EAA4120827 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 02:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1231471F0 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:07:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB65D36 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:07:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:ec07:473d:44eb:151c]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 515C36E for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:07:38 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 717677 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 20 Nov 2019 10:07:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:07:34 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?B?TS4gQW1z/HNz?= To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20191120100734.GA717484@hephaistos.amsuess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <022101d59f70$9a9cf9b0$cfd6ed10$@augustcellars.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 10:07:44 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim, > Need to go here as well. This too. just picking the points I feel I have something to say about: > * Should this document be re-written to only use CoRAL-reef? I don't think so in general for time line reasons. (There's no concrete pressure on this as far as I know of, but CoRAL still has no forseeable timeline). What I could see us do is having both in examples, and possibly even accept that some features are not as optimized or usable in link-format but can be in CoRAL. (The link from the join resource to the authorization server, on which there was the comment today from proxy-Klaus, comes to mind.) > * Section 5 - I don't care if you specify the same application group > multiple times. I don't want to have to figure out how to check this one > thing and error. Plus the end result will always be the same anyway Considering the paragraph below that, the app-gp paragraph can be vastly simplified anyway, and I think we already have an item about making this less normative. (The link's content is normative; how it's looked up in an RD is just a description of the combined steps). > * Section 5.1 - I think the anchor in the response is supposed to be abse= nt. The anchor needs to be there because it's an RD lookup result, and the RD needs to fill in the anchor because it could be relevant for interpreting the implied "hosts" relation or any non-target link attributes (which I usually claim should not be registered, but that's what we arrived at RD for 6690 compatibility). Thanks for your input c --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl3VEGMACgkQOY0REtOk veHb/BAAomNZDi9eKS5yAzL5MQH2EClfXSCc9ItSoh2QujYcB64lY1TaJ2syYvD4 YKE6apSxpzlKA9rMPNA52d70iF6gi8HipsVD8umFLZMh/Q03GwpHG2q54mWNb+kO RyK5o4piAgjBop7nVoJC+NCJONgvFjuLxmvyjhxzMnRaoWSCsvyKSC/ZXEdeFQzD GdYGAet7PovP7bqqUE/6uj5PmafqKqRKF+OikGd9TkZ0txruvHPyoZsdKk7zNE1t 12exh6WIAB+WN7xmjTTENfmj4sziZ7aGnjmFV36Kc5zmAJ5oPUI3FjYTWMpeVxq3 xa7NtTqaE9mNdS9rm1GR9VZ0Gm2C2Uh8J9h7IcS01FYT0GoFdY70CF7MZGiTPxUi 0HKA3iTnF/x+EiUTpexksgMzTxFY6qNO/ES3yTVv9ag4P8XDUNhmOfmirI6bWx8k /p6f7O4nhRU5E7vxkGXLRyVs4yIg2GAxpProOk+L7103Sb/xU6hPZ2siIRUNv3E4 sfBYfcFkXJx5BnPhTMesd49WGqaT+zAZgatj1QkO/JEzZPcgUrB7yQxS4NPLH+oH SOt8n6s/WL/81I17M/0XnAZ3b3UAnm9McdD2EMYxRtZghoK7s129hFIGhR8FKNcA 5wj1gMa+B3wDsIMt2gf+Ej90V5Yt1L4V7sNPuVIZa8WHVCtpkdc= =8a/7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From nobody Wed Nov 20 03:18:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0BE1208A0 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 03:18:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5d2EuwnMzhBe for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 03:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DDC1120043 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 03:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47J0Y45sXTzyT5; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:18:00 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 19:17:58 +0800 Cc: "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595941473.3014539-f78608cc649aa21e7d8ac1c85714ee62 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:18:05 -0000 > On Nov 20, 2019, at 14:03, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 >>> - Does CoAP allow changing option values in retransmissions?=20 >>=20 >> Yes, it actually encourages that, e.g.: >>=20 >> The value is intended to be current at the time of transmission. >> Servers that provide resources with strict tolerances on the value = of >> Max-Age SHOULD update the value before each retransmission.[=E2=80=A6= ] >>=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.10.5 >=20 > So, that means that implementations will have to perform a full = parse of received retransmissions, instead of only parsing enough in = order to detect a retransmission? I don=E2=80=99t think that is the intention. If the message-id of a received message is the same as the one the = server just processed, just discard. (On the other hand, for safe, idempotent methods, the server might well = decide to indeed process the request again instead of de-duplicating = it.) (And I hope nobody tries this trick with non-safe methods. Please make = three coffees. . Please make two coffees.) > In addition, if a retransmission contains updated information, = retransmissions will have to be exposed to the application, rather than = being handled by the protocol stack. Right. That is not the intention. >> (The interesting part here is eventual consistency =E2=80=94 you = can=E2=80=99t be sure that the acknowledgement you get is actually for = the most recent retransmission.) >=20 > Retransmissions can also be received out of order, and if they = contain different information the receiver may not necessarily know = which is the most recent. Indeed. The problem with max-age is, of course, that the receiver = (here: the client) does not know how long the packet needed to transit = the network, so reordering does not really add to that ambiguity. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Nov 20 04:23:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5001207FE for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:23:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OTcVxicUwB97 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADD64120052 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-f41.google.com ([209.85.219.41]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iXP1K-0000rh-Bc; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 13:23:42 +0100 Received: by mail-qv1-f41.google.com with SMTP id v16so9601862qvq.6 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:23:42 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWKblm+AVsUjrugtQq4yBI4aNOMQowkk4akN2CV0xKqvS1Svp2y a3vyJvgFWj4qMTuTq9SYlLud/8Oa2Y0MrZnmRw0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHaBbszhMQJQMvrWc9PERQ7OCTbXRv3qIbUF87GM77/5dQrZXP2GNDjET3RgUl3Q+t3xbR8YAVT8uB0qXoFJE= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:85e4:: with SMTP id o91mr2268665qva.16.1574252621149; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 04:23:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157237477119.11043.4363082013315464920@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Klaus Hartke Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 13:23:04 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Core WG mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1574252625; d44ed02f; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iXP1K-0000rh-Bc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Chairs' review of draft-ietf-core-stateless-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:23:48 -0000 Carsten Bormann wrote: > The option value MUST NOT be less than 8 or greater than 65804. If > an option value outside this range is received, the value MUST be > clamped to this range. > > I am still not a fan of re-interpreting disallowed values. > (Assuming there was later any reason to go beyond 65804, of course allowing > larger values and interpreting these as 65804 because a client knowing > just this specification cannot make use of lengths >65804 makes sense. > Not so sure about the values 0..7 though.) Well, the option is elective. So, for example, if a server says "I support tokens only up to 3 bytes" and the client doesn't understand the option, the client would still send requests with 4-8 byte tokens. Requiring a client that does understand the option to send an error for values 0..7 wouldn't change that. Of course, we could use values 0..7 to signal special cases to clients that understand the options (though I don't know why we wouldn't use dedicated options for that). This document won't define any special cases, so this is about a future possibility. The question then is, how we would introduce these special cases in the future and what we want clients to do with those values until then. IMO letting clients that understand the option but not values 0..7 handle the option exactly like clients that don't understand the option at all is the best answer. > have been forwarded by an intermediary. To ensure that this does not > lead to inconsistent resource state, a stateless intermediary MUST > include the Request-Tag Option [I-D.ietf-core-echo-request-tag] in > block-wise transfers with a value that uniquely identifies the client > in the intermediary's namespace. > > -> To ensure that this does not lead to inconsistent resource state, a > stateless intermediary that wants to forward requests with Block1 > options will need to also include a distinguishing option such as the Request-Tag Option > [I-D.ietf-core-echo-request-tag] in a way that uniquely... Done. > When using AES-CCM, repeated use of the same nonce under the same key > > Not just AES-CCM, just about any AEAD. Maybe say: When using an > encryption mode that depends on a nonce, such as AES-CCM, ... Done. > ## Nits > > A client SHOULD NOT assume that extended token lengths are supported > by a server 60 minutes after receiving a response with an extended > token length, as network addresses may change. > > s/60/later than 60/ Done. 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HE1PR07MB3193.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.243.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2474.13; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:04:01 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2474.015; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:04:01 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Carsten Bormann CC: "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 Thread-Index: AQHVn2BECFPCnrAr20yH8up3HLf2tKeTiUWAgADA5AD//59pAIAA5sqA Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: <4BB4A7FD-FD21-4A72-912B-F8766878B636@ericsson.com> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0TMd3XkzOzS6 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAD2A1208D0 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iXQhD-0006uF-Cq; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:11:03 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id o49so29049124qta.7 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:11:03 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXaFuU6fDhf+NAhQAvNMABffM4TSIFl/JN6O1i7qk4mjYupBhI4 AZgutVCuU6fg+qtk40v8AjgMS7fw1RMFrZH/vu0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/KvbhThws7xkf5wV6ipK6Hdzfq0m2LCC5rbzPEFc9Cwjs1s10h3iYohw7ct3dyZzRYtaR41+GKGaYLh6P23M= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:382e:: with SMTP id q43mr2743888qtb.174.1574259062336; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:11:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:10:26 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= Cc: Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1574259066; f7c4f181; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iXQhD-0006uF-Cq Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:11:07 -0000 Christian Ams=C3=BCss wrote: > I would not expect a stateless proxy to generate 5.04 errors after a > timeout after sending a request. RFC 7252 [1] is actually quite strict on that, though: If the request to the destination times out, then a 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) response MUST be returned. It seems we need to override that MUST if we want to allow "stateless" intermediaries... Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.7.1 From nobody Wed Nov 20 06:15:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744111200EB for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:15:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RNqGAKV3nqkJ for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2474.9; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:15:50 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2474.015; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:15:49 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Markku Kojo CC: "core@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?B?SWxwbyBKw6RydmluZW4=?= Thread-Topic: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 Thread-Index: AQHVn2BECFPCnrAr20yH8up3HLf2tKeTp94AgAEryoA= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:15:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; 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ciBub3QuLi4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiANCg0K From nobody Wed Nov 20 06:17:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45081208F1 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jNH6yApgm-L0 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E46BA120896 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-f47.google.com ([209.85.219.47]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iXQmw-0000xk-4Q; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:16:58 +0100 Received: by mail-qv1-f47.google.com with SMTP id q19so9744938qvs.5 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:16:58 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXc63XSSy+sZCmrXdrKdehkFZUdjlp+c4h4c3MJkVTHpQb4g7Nr 23TM3z9z7TcHmmgo+RozzJaDbZxsGm9dbAMKd5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxbpEikrg8YQROnkwG1aacem0w5XSRNAFftSh5xhUiyr/jEdeI1Fqz/jBHicweMu67OmEJVc3s4MRDyWfqo3QI= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:55ce:: with SMTP id bt14mr2680716qvb.131.1574259416997; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 06:16:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <6F00CB5A-A2DB-4DDD-B819-436A2FDF8A6D@tzi.org> <8A8C0F2E-43F1-4F81-89A5-B9FE85CC9632@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <8A8C0F2E-43F1-4F81-89A5-B9FE85CC9632@ericsson.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:16:20 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Carsten Bormann , =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= , "core@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1574259419; c118c2f8; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iXQmw-0000xk-4Q Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:17:02 -0000 Christer Holmberg wrote: > There are other features based on request state that may also need some clarification. > > For example, Section 3.5 of RFC 7641 says: [...] > > Related to that, Section 3.6 of RFC 7641 says: [...] I don't think we can make RFC 7641 work across a stateless proxy. The draft [1] already forbids it: ... an intermediary MUST NOT include an Observe Option in requests it sends without keeping request state. Klaus [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-stateless-03#section-3.2 From nobody Wed Nov 20 07:27:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874331200B1 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 07:27:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dWtpyHpFibNN for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 07:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8921B120013 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 07:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47J64f2tVHzyNL; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 16:27:14 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <4BB4A7FD-FD21-4A72-912B-F8766878B636@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 23:27:11 +0800 Cc: "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 595956429.436336-b7b227490d07e4ecad5f2a4b830edb9a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96ED9133-1142-41EE-8408-6D3F3DF8F73C@tzi.org> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> <4BB4A7FD-FD21-4A72-912B-F8766878B636@ericsson.com> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:27:19 -0000 >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t think that is the intention. >> If the message-id of a received message is the same as the one the = server just processed, just discard. >=20 > Are you saying that retransmissions of the same message may have = different message-id values???=20 No, I was trying to say that a recipient discards duplicates, which they = detect by them having the same message-id. > If so, why do we need this new counter to begin with? The sender = could simply use different message-id values in each retransmission, and = use that to associate an acknowledgement with a specific retransmission. This would take away the deduplication feature, which is sometimes = needed, and sometimes just saves some work on the part of the server. >>> In addition, if a retransmission contains updated information, = retransmissions will have to be exposed to the application, rather than = being handled by the protocol stack. >>=20 >> Right. That is not the intention. >=20 > Well, if one is allowed to update information in retransmissions, that = would be the case=E2=80=A6 Again, the point is that a duplicate is not processed, so the sender = could not rely on the updated information being seen (in the case the = ACK was lost). > Retransmissions are typically handled by the protocol stack, so to me = it sounds strange that they would update information in the message = itself. (Filling in the max-age value can be handled by the protocol stack as = well, which is a good idea at least for implementations that care about = accuracy of that information, which is why it can be easy to update it = in a retransmission.) 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Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:19:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZsyKhBC7Bsy for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 089671200D7 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:19:07 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Christian_M._Ams=FCss'?= , References: <022101d59f70$9a9cf9b0$cfd6ed10$@augustcellars.com> <20191120100734.GA717484@hephaistos.amsuess.com> In-Reply-To: <20191120100734.GA717484@hephaistos.amsuess.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 04:19:05 +0800 Message-ID: <02aa01d59fdf$c37cff50$4a76fdf0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFmF6eGOqiGspPa3Xs9ezEjvRHCKqhzj8AA Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Review draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 20:19:15 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: core On Behalf Of Christian M. Ams=FCss Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:08 PM To: core@ietf.org Subject: Re: [core] Review draft-tiloca-core-oscore-discovery-04 Hello Jim, > Need to go here as well. This too. just picking the points I feel I have something to say about: > * Should this document be re-written to only use CoRAL-reef? I don't think so in general for time line reasons. (There's no concrete pressure on this as far as I know of, but CoRAL still has no forseeable timeline). [JLS] It is not clear to me that there is a timeline for this document = as well. What I could see us do is having both in examples, and possibly even = accept that some features are not as optimized or usable in link-format but can = be in CoRAL. (The link from the join resource to the authorization server, = on which there was the comment today from proxy-Klaus, comes to mind.) [JLS] That would be helpful > * Section 5 - I don't care if you specify the same application group > multiple times. I don't want to have to figure out how to check this = one > thing and error. Plus the end result will always be the same anyway Considering the paragraph below that, the app-gp paragraph can be vastly simplified anyway, and I think we already have an item about making this less normative. (The link's content is normative; how it's looked up in = an RD is just a description of the combined steps). > * Section 5.1 - I think the anchor in the response is supposed to be absent. The anchor needs to be there because it's an RD lookup result, and the = RD needs to fill in the anchor because it could be relevant for = interpreting the implied "hosts" relation or any non-target link attributes (which I usually claim should not be registered, but that's what we arrived at RD = for 6690 compatibility). [JLS] Rats - I guess I need to go back and read the RD draft again. The last thing that I remember was that everything came back as fully = resolved and thus anchor did not mean anything. Jim Thanks for your input c -- To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. -- Bene Gesserit axiom From nobody Wed Nov 20 19:36:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2E912093A; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 19:36:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cS_ULXxgbaqf; 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id A05AA12083B for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 03:18:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mbY4FOAkf2RQ for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 03:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE14F1200D8 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 03:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9c88.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47JcVb51hKzySX; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 12:17:59 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 19:17:56 +0800 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= , Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596027874.502365-2970058d9bd7063a3908f8566f0afe40 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97681CA1-4CC4-4ECC-96E9-03CB9108C3F8@tzi.org> References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 11:18:05 -0000 On Nov 20, 2019, at 22:10, Klaus Hartke wrote: >=20 > If the request to the destination times out, then a 5.04 (Gateway > Timeout) response MUST be returned. How can the request time out if the proxy has forgotten all about it? In this case, the timeout cannot be anything but infinite. 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From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Klaus Hartke , Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191122085301.GA584790@hephaistos.amsuess.com> References: <998D003E-7C31-44A7-8FFE-C4E88F678CA3@ericsson.com> <20191103144653.GB11679@hephaistos.amsuess.com> <97681CA1-4CC4-4ECC-96E9-03CB9108C3F8@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <97681CA1-4CC4-4ECC-96E9-03CB9108C3F8@tzi.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Stateless proxy and 5.04 (Gateway Timeout) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 08:53:13 -0000 --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 07:17:56PM +0800, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > If the request to the destination times out, then a 5.04 (Gateway > > Timeout) response MUST be returned. >=20 > How can the request time out if the proxy has forgotten all about it? >=20 > In this case, the timeout cannot be anything but infinite. A more precise definition of "times out" might have been "if the proxy decides to discard any state it had to hold about the request". For a stateless proxy, that won't happen. (A stateless proxy might have an LRU cache of origin server for which it keeps per-server state, but a server falling out of that should not impede the forwardability of responses). Best regards Christian --=20 I shouldn't have written all those tank programs. -- Kevin Flynn --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAl3XoeoACgkQOY0REtOk veFboxAA0NBeHEvrn0C7j59G+PtM8/9o/Y0+ry/8rmkzgaFBiVxN1A+SY4SvGSG8 1ML0S9GCctSJGd9O55bfztH9eYoE4Bf3ZvdhqWlfEHfT2w3srX+WZAjll0L318ir jXAeaDzwDx57pqaGJwLF7ZGtp7qosmPpILsu7ZWtqXD3bgqVvB99knSwMkOiD539 7+oZ4mqsbklkZJ+p+e2d33AIylmeupLyIWXMg8sw7lbNLujbBdjU/v+lIuiYdXq3 kmtApPr0H2b3c52rPywdOmjjm+iWRNKZ6QcCNPs/iQktQ1kL6AayN82XACF4JyGa FO1wxQf+Hqz/cRoerXijNAmgJL/YVMfpf2VdNcaHuKIhN9QmdRS7CTWuwmdJgTRR DAA0iFOZc68WVkia8SRWXgKuus5+p+0axmFdNs02jLCevB3T6FN1L9aRlRpHIPdu jzWM6u5vOPgoufsBCZXGYsNi2IfICw/20uxi2AYQ9EzIbfB1wQtBfcuKJX3xX6Q6 7dH8yvoM71XdJnXBxAfUyne2KWef7vBZXU2ZofvMOPo7LD10GpLOp7qj3imXc4am KCycxWEX7tkeJG5SELNlIKnHIMQ3/2/elBi3eX6Y7bQJXxKIjetN32RAKKqSzAlE FiNQEp1Nl9xt1awbx8AvAJsvv02FQ3IYTTCug7S1j/ZT7v/fCyU= =Tkex -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G-- From nobody Fri Nov 22 15:04:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F21120137; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:04:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6128KMNCLUhx; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94C161200CD; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:04:01 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:03:59 -0800 Message-ID: <048701d5a189$2177f9c0$6467ed40$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWhCDKBlX3WBHGrTFWkT4O8WhwjAQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Comments on draft-hartke-t2trg-coral-reef-03 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 23:04:10 -0000 I have sent this to core rather than T2TRG because I think that it is more appropriate. * It would be nice to add a note to the top of the document pointing to the repository you are using, if you are using one. * I am having a problem with you saying that you are defining a new well-known resource. "/.well-known/core" has already been defined. It would be better to say you are expanding the capabilities I think. * In the first example in the document (page 4), I believe that you should be able to return "ct TBD3" as part of the "/sensors" resource. This may or may not be covered by this document so I am not sure if you think it would be allowable or not. Specifically, I believe that any place you can currently use application/link-format you should be able to use REEF * At the end of section 2.1, second to last paragraph - The last clause in the last sentence has a problem with matching the pronoun back to the correct subject. On first read I matched one back to schema not to the details. I think that use of a semicolon would fix this problem. * In section 2.2, the registration interface is currently missing the query parameters. The big ones would be ep (endpoint name) and d (domain), you should not need base because that can be represented in the CoRAL document. About the time I got to section 5.2 on the second pass, I realized that you did not deal with endpoint registration and queries at all. This is a needed feature. * There should however be a statement that the link for an rd-item when registering MUST NOT only be a path comment. * I think there should be a statement that only the first base directive can include schema + authority information. This is because you are only supposed to register resources for one entity at a time. * Section 3 - I am not sure you want to use the word "identifier" in the description of title. That is not normally how I think of a title. I would probably also use "title" rather than "label" in both paragraphs. * Section 3 - you need to give me something to better distinguish between #type and #ct as they both seem to say the same thing to me. * Section 3 - you need to say something about how to deal with #ct for multiple values. I am not sure about #if * Section 3 - I think that you should have all of the tags in this section. For example rd-item and rd-unit. * General - I know that this is supposed to be what is going to happen, an ?rt= query option is going to be the same as reef#rt, but I don't think there is anyplace in this document that makes that statement. 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Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:57:50 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:57:49 +0100 Cc: "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596293067.498166-6601013022ff56b297f17c3c486d46fd Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7C86562D-A871-44FA-9367-8886FF0AD016@tzi.org> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> <4BB4A7FD-FD21-4A72-912B-F8766878B636@ericsson.com> <96ED9133-1142-41EE-8408-6D3F3DF8F73C@tzi.org> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 12:57:55 -0000 On Nov 23, 2019, at 14:15, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 >>>> I don=E2=80=99t think that is the intention. >>>> If the message-id of a received message is the same as the one the = server just processed, just discard. >>>=20 >>> Are you saying that retransmissions of the same message may have = different message-id values???=20 >>=20 >> No, I was trying to say that a recipient discards duplicates, which = they detect by them having the same message-id. >=20 > =E2=80=A6which means the recipient would miss any updated data = conveyed in the retransmission. Yes. Hence the warning that the server should not consider the updated = data conveyed. >>>>> In addition, if a retransmission contains updated information, = retransmissions will have to be exposed to the application, rather than = being handled by the protocol stack. >>>>=20 >>>> Right. That is not the intention. >>>=20 >>> Well, if one is allowed to update information in retransmissions, = that would be the case=E2=80=A6 >>=20 >> Again, the point is that a duplicate is not processed, so the sender = could not rely on the updated information being seen (in the case the = ACK was lost). >=20 > I think it is weird to define functionality that is based on the = information being updated, and at the same time say that the sender can = not rely that the receiver will see the updated information=E2=80=A6 The receiver is getting a more accurate max-age. This is useful. If data are updated as well, the receiver gets more timely data. Also useful. Since we don=E2=80=99t have reliable ACKs, we can=E2=80=99t go beyond = that. >>> Retransmissions are typically handled by the protocol stack, so to = me it sounds strange that they would update information in the message = itself. >>=20 >> (Filling in the max-age value can be handled by the protocol stack as = well, which is a good idea at least for implementations that care about = accuracy=20 >> of that information, which is why it can be easy to update it in a = retransmission.) >=20 > Yes, but in order for the updated information to be useful the = recipient stack will also have to parse the information, and provide it = to the recipient application. Certainly not =E2=80=9Chave to=E2=80=9D, as the server will send an = update at an opportune time (assuming observe). Outside of observe, = there is no way to know whether the =E2=80=9Cupdated information=E2=80=9D = is actually a late arrival of an earlier transmission. The really useful part of allowing a server to send updated information = in a retransmission actually is that the server can choose not to = deduplicate idempotent, safe requests if that would be more expensive = than actually answering duplicates. If this option is chosen, the = server doesn=E2=80=99t know what was sent originally. > The recipient can of course claim that the retransmission was lost, = and that it never received it, but that=E2=80=99s a hack :) (Without observe,) the recipient no longer has an active request at the = time the (retransmission-induced or network-replicated) duplicate = arrives, so without a hack it is not possible to process the duplicate. 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22:08:15 +0000 From: Thomas Fossati To: Esko Dijk , "draft-dijk-core-groupcomm-bis@ietf.org" CC: "core@ietf.org" , Thomas Fossati Thread-Topic: Review of draft-dijk-core-groupcomm-bis-00 Thread-Index: AQHVIr8jP6uKhGeBB0e+2ld05f5wFqdfthoggAePoICAD43McIAlDlKA Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:08:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3B058FDB-2018-4E8D-BFC1-799631E496B1@arm.com> References: <509FFE7D-1F4E-4E9B-9BA1-DFC82BB3E85B@arm.com> <77708B1C-50A6-4431-87D9-1D14BB85138A@arm.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 Authentication-Results-Original: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Thomas.Fossati@arm.com; x-originating-ip: [82.11.185.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 5d9f5b70-3051-4b43-aece-08d7712ad2c9 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM6PR08MB4916:|AM6PR08MB4916:|AM0PR08MB4610: X-MS-Exchange-PUrlCount: 1 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Message-ID: <157478562021.13759.18003509362167004084.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 08:27:00 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Protocol Action: 'Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Hop-Limit Option' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-07.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:27:00 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Hop-Limit Option' (draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-07.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Barry Leiba. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-hop-limit/ Technical Summary The presence of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) proxies may lead to infinite forwarding loops, which is undesirable. To prevent and detect such loops, this document specifies the Hop-Limit CoAP option. Working Group Summary The document has gone through multiple expert reviews and has been discussed at multiple face-to-face IETF meetings. Nothing particularly controversial about this document. Document Quality This draft is the solution to a problem raised by the DOTs WG (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-37). It is referred as a normative reference there. The option has already been implemented in the proprietary NCC Group DOTS. Personnel Jaime Jiménez is the document shepherd. Alexey Melnikov is the responsible Area Director. From nobody Tue Nov 26 11:25:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8566F120A83; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:25:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5tuc6CKSGTW5; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B2F41209A4; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p548DC893.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.200.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47Mv550lf5zyfx; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:25:44 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <157478562021.13759.18003509362167004084.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:25:43 +0100 Cc: draft-ietf-core-hop-limit@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596489141.239846-1c597a99f19ed8fa36506e0936dc8bc4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <73A1C949-8A79-45A0-8974-A429D60F81D7@tzi.org> References: <157478562021.13759.18003509362167004084.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Protocol Action: 'Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Hop-Limit Option' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-07.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:25:50 -0000 I would like to congratulate the authors of this specification =E2=80=94 = they successfully extracted this functionality from the DOTS signal = channel draft (which will likely be approved as well, soon) and carried = it into the CoRE WG, where we finished this together, and despite the = transfer even managed to overtake the document that it was extracted = from. While things could well have gone even more smoothly in this WG, = I think we do have a success here. A big thank you to everyone who = contributed and reviewed! Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Nov 26, 2019, at 17:27, The IESG wrote: >=20 > The IESG has approved the following document: > - 'Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) Hop-Limit Option' > (draft-ietf-core-hop-limit-07.txt) as Proposed Standard >=20 > This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments = Working > Group. >=20 > The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Barry = Leiba. >=20 > A URL of this Internet Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-hop-limit/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Technical Summary >=20 > The presence of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) proxies > may lead to infinite forwarding loops, which is undesirable. > To prevent and detect such loops, this document specifies > the Hop-Limit CoAP option. >=20 > Working Group Summary >=20 > The document has gone through multiple expert reviews > and has been discussed at multiple face-to-face IETF meetings. > Nothing particularly controversial about this document. >=20 > Document Quality >=20 > This draft is the solution to a problem raised by the DOTs WG > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-37). > It is referred as a normative reference there. >=20 > The option has already been implemented in the proprietary > NCC Group DOTS. >=20 > Personnel >=20 > Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez is the document shepherd. > Alexey Melnikov is the responsible Area Director. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From nobody Tue Nov 26 18:16:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D578120B4B for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:16:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f09fivVhBqmM for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B61A4120B49 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:16:31 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 18:16:29 -0800 Message-ID: <069401d5a4c8$afc07da0$0f4178e0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWksgR7WEwtn1beRleL07pKg+noaA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Some terminology questions for CoRAL X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 02:16:39 -0000 I have been having some problems understanding one of the ways that CoRAL is currently being described as being expressed. I think that I have narrowed down the issue to where I am not groking things. The current document says that you have a context and anything which is a URI would be resolved using that context. The default context for anything that is returned from the server to the client is specified as the URI that corresponded to the request. This makes a lot of sense. The reverse is also going to be true for CoRAL documents sent from the client to the server. In terms of the pub sub draft, an update of a topic for which the data item is a child node would be expressed as Max-rate 60 Topic-title "Change to this title" Topic-data { Value "90" } In this case is evaluated relative to the path where the document was posted. Next comes where I have run into my problem. I am going to send a request to create a topic from scratch. In this case I am going to send a CoRAL document to create a new topic would look like Topic _ { Topic-title "This is a new topic" } Topic-data _ { Content-type 29 } So, in my mind, both topic and topic-data have a URI as a target. However, in this case the value of that URI is completely unknown to the client that is requesting that the topic be created. My problem is that I still want to put a URI as the target and not a literal which is what the underscore character is. I think this issue only arises in the cases where the target is always going to be a URI in a response, and might be URI in the request but not always. In the cases where it is not a URI, it is never going to be a literal value it is always going to be of the sense "I don't know what goes here" or "There may be multiple answers to what goes here". The first case matches to the creation case. The second case matches a query case such as a FETCH operation. While my personal preference here would be to use something that would not ever be used as a literal value, as long as it gets documented in the CoRAL document I would be able to live with any value. The CBOR value of "Undefined Value" (simple value 23) leaps to mind as a reasonable value to put here depending on how the PATCH format is defined. It may be that this should be saved for delete. Jim From nobody Tue Nov 26 23:23:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7F8120077 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:23:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OJyxJm9ZjEFg for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8597::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC227120090 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-f177.google.com ([209.85.222.177]); authenticated by wp382.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1iZrfL-0006Il-Th; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:23:12 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f177.google.com with SMTP id v23so10796720qkg.2 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:23:11 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV8BUZusRni5A/1I6ll+VSS+6+vfmVTAdER1M19sdLtLJET5BWT h5DdudHoccC6lwDICrVjJ6bvOyiIbW7NQCXb9/Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw3GwNqkZkTxSFJfgvafFQ9n3hrtfK53dc4zHvVS7XTnKtExdqxpkV7uoFgCHdSYyRQrYshF6DpZSvmDUnBJLc= X-Received: by 2002:a37:76c6:: with SMTP id r189mr2591631qkc.303.1574839390641; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 23:23:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <069401d5a4c8$afc07da0$0f4178e0$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: <069401d5a4c8$afc07da0$0f4178e0$@augustcellars.com> From: Klaus Hartke Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:22:34 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Jim Schaad Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; hartke@projectcool.de; 1574839395; 9d9b3e8e; X-HE-SMSGID: 1iZrfL-0006Il-Th Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Some terminology questions for CoRAL X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:23:17 -0000 Hi Jim, I think when you're creating a topic, then you'll basically want to say: "Hello server! Please create a new topic for me. The title of the new topic should be 'This is a new topic'. There should also be a data resource. I don't know the URI of that resource, but it should have content-type 29." "I don't know the URI of that resource" is literally the definition of "null" in I-D.ietf-core-coral-01. So, when submitting a document to a server, it could be put wherever the server is supposed to fill something in, like the URI of the topic data resource or the blank parts of a FETCH query. That's the idea so far. I guess ambiguity arises when you want to be able to both express "I want the link target to be a resource that I don't know the URI of" and "I want you to fill in the link target". For that, maybe using "null" and "undefined", respectively, would be a good idea. The question is, do we need it? The syntax for selectors and updated values in a PATCH request is an open issue. We'll probably need to be able to say both "Please set the link target to a resource that I don't know the URI of" and "Please remove this link". We could distinguish between these two cases by using "null" and "undefined" for the updated value, respectively... 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HE1PR07MB3353.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.4; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 11:55:21 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706]) by HE1PR07MB3161.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2ca9:414:cc01:9706%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2495.014; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 11:55:21 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Carsten Bormann CC: "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] Comments and questions on draft-jarvinen-core-fasor-02 Thread-Index: AQHVn2BECFPCnrAr20yH8up3HLf2tKeTiUWAgADA5AD//59pAIAA5sqA//9e2ICABUq5AIAA1N6AgAZZYwA= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 11:55:21 +0000 Message-ID: <37DD6AA6-9B94-4439-A3D8-512B8E6876E6@ericsson.com> References: <9917155C-DBA2-43F7-B14C-3B778B27E96F@ericsson.com> <976DBC2F-20DE-4E4F-BB45-BB1C24027AE0@tzi.org> <18122668-6F48-4508-A53C-DC80723B8ED3@ericsson.com> <2CE089EB-D1C9-4692-BC72-309A37551685@tzi.org> 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score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pjdV8iNs8_4z for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32941120128 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from client-0103.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0103.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47PYFB3Xt7z10vj; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:08:30 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:08:29 +0100 Cc: "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596722107.936994-ca259feb909c75aabdb5b6304134f75b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:08:35 -0000 Hi Christer, > On Nov 29, 2019, at 09:44, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, > =20 > A couple of questions for clarification. > =20 > =20 > Assume a CoAP server receives a confirmable request message. > =20 > According to Section 4.5. of RFC 7252, the server SHOULD retransmit = the associated ACK whenever it receives a retransmission of the request = message. So far, so good. > =20 > Then, assume that the sever sends a non-confirmable response message = to the request. AFAIK, that is allowed. Allowed, yes, but also a rather unusual case: The client took care to = send a confirmable request, and the server only answers unreliably. = This combination makes the most sense for an observe-GET, where the = server is sending periodic notifications, so the loss of a single one is = not really a big problem. > --- > =20 > Q1: > =20 > Perhaps I have missed it, I can=E2=80=99t find any text saying that = the server would retransmit the response message if it receives a = retransmission of the request.=20 No, it won=E2=80=99t. The client will retransmit only up to receiving = an ACK. Since your scenario assumes non-confirmable responses, this implies a = separate response, so the ACK will be empty. The server can then send, = at leisure, its response; no further retranmissions will take place. (A weird case is where all ACKs get lost and finally the response = indicates to the client that the request must have arrived, stopping = retransmission =E2=80=94 see penultimate paragraph of 4.2. Still, the = message-id of all retransmissions is the same, so no additional response = will be generated.) > Section 4.3 does say that a server may choose to transmit multiple = copies of a non-confirmable message, but there is no text saying that = such transmits would be triggered by a retransmission of the request. That is indeed not intended. Retransmissions happen at the message = layer. Request/response is a layer above and is not concerned with = retransmissions. =20 > Section 4.5. does say: > =20 > =E2=80=9CA server might relax the requirement to answer all = retransmissions > of an idempotent request with the same response (Section = 4.2),=E2=80=9D Now you are back to piggybacked responses. =20 > Where does Section 4.2 talk about answering retransmissions of an = idempotent request (or any request, for that matter) with the same = response? Good question. Interesting. =20 > --- > =20 > Q2: > =20 > Related to Q1, Section 4.5 says: > =20 > =E2=80=9DFor example, an implementation might want to process = duplicate > transmissions of a GET, PUT, or DELETE request as separate > requests if the effort incurred by duplicate processing is less > expensive than keeping track of previous responses would be.=E2=80= =9D > =20 > =20 > Maybe I misunderstand this =E2=80=9Cprocess as separate requests=E2=80=9D= thing, but: > =20 > First, it means that each response could be different from the = previous one, and the sender of the request would have to process each = of them. The sender is not supposed to retransmit a request if it already = received a response. Of course, the retransmission and the response might cross; in this case = the superfluous response is not used. =20 > Second, does this mean that, if the responses are confirmable, the = server should expect an ACK for each response? =E2=80=9CProcess as = separate requests=E2=80=9D makes it sound like that. If the response is sent as a confirmable message, the server expects an = ACK for it. It retransmits until it gets one. If the response is in an ACK, it is not confirmable; this is really the = useful case for =E2=80=9Cprocess as separate requests=E2=80=9D. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Nov 29 04:20:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB83120241 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:20:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bosch-si.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6PIHMkug5Hb9 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from de-out1.bosch-org.com (de-out1.bosch-org.com [139.15.230.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7FDA120232 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe0vm1650.rbesz01.com (unknown [139.15.230.188]) by si0vms0216.rbdmz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47PYVp2ghxz1XLm48; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:18 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bosch-si.com; s=key2-intmail; t=1575030018; bh=X6q1kXa2qsbUfDuCGTFdDmLjB8x2KQczOzEPeTibrQM=; l=10; h=From:Subject:From:Reply-To:Sender; b=EkbV6p64fmv2yBMNn6/JVEOqL7qwwqyqy402m4jpic+sfWaDy7DjQ8U/w7l7aIg+5 50wUcuQOZfRdnS1z+sicSvobarsX+n/f4EEX920hYgXo01GbQ3mKvfPgSjIooV+bgB 7t80rbIxSiRqiS0FcHf2YsC5ZDqFah4CPapLXJ4w= Received: from si0vm02576.rbesz01.com (unknown [10.58.172.176]) by fe0vm1650.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47PYVp2Nhwz326; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:18 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: 0a3aad0d-529ff700000030a7-79-5de10d0242b0 Received: from si0vm1949.rbesz01.com ( [10.58.173.29]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by si0vm02576.rbesz01.com (SMG Outbound) with SMTP id 63.45.12455.20D01ED5; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (si-mbx2033.de.bosch.com [10.3.230.36]) by si0vm1949.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47PYVp039Cz6CjZNX; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.36) by SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1847.3; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:17 +0100 Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com ([fe80::e8d2:d090:af15:3320]) by SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com ([fe80::e8d2:d090:af15:3320%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1847.005; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:17 +0100 From: "Kraus Achim (INST/ECS4)" To: Christer Holmberg CC: "core@ietf.org" , Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? Thread-Index: AQHVppE/OetFI+DdS0KoPWGUqntDGKeh/YWAgAAS76A= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:20:17 +0000 Message-ID: <09a7f0f318dc4f45a3cdd7791b28ecdd@bosch-si.com> References: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.121.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA22Tb0xbVRjGOfe29Lb0breXsb50YrTRZIjbGLpJKNs0fBhfdFsyY6Krrsgd rdKW9bYIRCOSoJZuEwmZ/Bkddu3Cn2FLhYF1wNaxiIDgpovMARvClo50jkCy1cWpt71l7Qe/ nLznec/vec95bi6B0w5CQegMZsZk0BQrEyUCSU5X2iaMnFNnTtiF2cP1M8LsmtZjouzBu278 ZTx/5PSvwnyn8y8s/7hDtxd/U5JbyBTrShnTlp0HJdrOsz685MyuMuvwEKpE0ztqkJgA6kXw NbZjNUhC0FQDBkcGukT8ZgBB5dFL0c1dBOdXHDi/OY/gSNCLhflEKgfqWi+KwvU6ajdUXT4V qXEqD1oWZ4ThOpkqhdEH7Yn8mQ/A460S8HUO/HRvKKILqGeh7+++CEtSKnjoHor401QJ+L4e jPiIOX25fQEP14hKA49nEudnycF7+4GQfw8FznO8DlQK3Jn/J6o/BZ8seblZBHc+Hdy+LTz6 NNTb5qJjZfBj44KgFsmb4lybYkRTHNEUR7QiQQdaz+oyS/WZWdte2r7ZVMCwFZlbN79r1HsR /9nIfjRx/5AfYQTyo20Epkwh1Vduquk1BcbCcq2G1b5jshQzrFJBfhy0qunkxzJrKdDrWFZn NPgRELhyHVnQckNNk4Wa8grGZOQxP9pACJRysojYc4CmijRm5n2GKWFMq10VQSiB/EYwp6Zl JqaIKTukKzavtpVpJEpISKDXx3fix2KE2I9eIKTc7F1SzoJkSzR6VlcUxVN5nF5VY+go2kPU 3mlx4MSFS3ZuHW5xOXBaYDAaGIWcdCdxXlSY0loMj2+jeIKcGuGCSYlrxBwX0TVEIGUyWR2G pdy/EbsHkJXh6GRRMQZluTiG6koF97wNwbnf6hCMn2jGoL+nGwOrdwaDNs9DDOru/SAAe4hb GgaqhTButwnhyvVmIQSWfhaC03ZSBKEzbSLon+oQweK/SwT0f/WZGKZuj4khMDsphlBwVgzT fdUSWOitSQLnl78nQWB8RAqh8ftS6F2xkuD9vpGENqtrDQRa29dC6ObZtRC0dVNwqu0L2SIX MsaFPHhsNhyyWWP+n5Cjaux1ikpUcTQjsHT1av3x1290LH94fWOSv3vs0909bzlflfdl6J7/ 81YPyvqoYac+T9WRU/bk3g2q2U2vPbq4vD14S/feH/MWTe8rB3dkNE+r1M/ks/i+a2P7v/0u 78Tb3qpJi+vRijnXXkq50js7J2S+fc4LtScPHJ78xfN55xuuw6MbL6dWpOeWKwWsVrP1OdzE av4DzI/777UEAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? 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OyB0aGlzIGlzIHJlYWxseSB0aGUgdXNlZnVsIGNhc2UgZm9yIOKAnHByb2Nlc3MgYXMgc2VwYXJh dGUgcmVxdWVzdHPigJ0uDQoNCkdyw7zDn2UsIENhcnN0ZW4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCmNvcmUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpjb3JlQGll dGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NvcmUNCg== From nobody Fri Nov 29 04:27:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC988120241 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:27:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7vN-cCKpqYZ for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76713120232 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from client-0103.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0103.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47PYgV0kSzz10wC; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:27:50 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <09a7f0f318dc4f45a3cdd7791b28ecdd@bosch-si.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:27:49 +0100 Cc: Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596723267.8263021-276c9c6b95232efd3b4ac4790143a693 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <920091F4-EEA4-4407-AEBD-BE1C37DF199C@tzi.org> References: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> <09a7f0f318dc4f45a3cdd7791b28ecdd@bosch-si.com> To: "Kraus Achim (INST/ECS4)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:27:54 -0000 >=20 > Section 5 is then about the request/response 5.2.2, page 34 (top), "If = a retransmitted request is received (perhaps because the original = Acknowledgement was delayed), another Empty Acknowledgement is sent, and = any response MUST be sent as a separate response." > That seem to point to the same intention: retransmit the original = messages (flight) as answer. >=20 > (It seems that my understanding differs from Carsten=E2=80=99s = answer.) When the server chooses to use a separate response, it sends the Acknowledgement to the Confirmable request as an Empty message. Once the server sends back an Empty Acknowledgement, it MUST NOT send back Shelby, et al. Standards Track [Page 33] RFC 7252 The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) June 2014 the response in another Acknowledgement, even if the client retransmits another identical request. If a retransmitted request is received (perhaps because the original Acknowledgement was delayed), another Empty Acknowledgement is sent, and any response MUST be sent as a separate response. This means that once the server sends an empty ACK, it is committed to = replying in a separate response; it can=E2=80=99t go back to = piggybacking, even if a conveniently arriving retransmission of the = request might suggest so. It does not mean the separate response is = automatically retransmitted (that has its own ACK cycle). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Nov 29 05:34:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179801207FD for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bosch-si.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFykWztPSw-I for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:34:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from de-out1.bosch-org.com (de-out1.bosch-org.com [139.15.230.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC5441200E9 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 05:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe0vm1649.rbesz01.com (unknown [139.15.230.188]) by fe0vms0186.rbdmz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Pb8n2B1Pz1XLFjs; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:49 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bosch-si.com; s=key2-intmail; t=1575034489; bh=rgVwlfMi2rtbGOYA/TOm/zHzAPv1JoKIJt2enjeQnZ0=; l=10; h=From:Subject:From:Reply-To:Sender; b=V+n5EPc3ZkmM18fxJE5IZF5Px2MVGVxCS40b4OsJTJ9M+RAdIU4lmAu1GZqEIbEkH nSN/WVi38glZAc4wUoQ6aQtfcMQ5MYlkknEjKNWIWZjJdI0Uie0/UqkXNwJZC621K3 plHEIF1VevhZVS3xQMtfgvwK8GZTFqgt8m9N85Q0= Received: from si0vm2082.rbesz01.com (unknown [10.58.172.176]) by fe0vm1649.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Pb8n1tcWz7fn; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:49 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: 0a3aad16-3a7ff7000000385e-37-5de11e7937c6 Received: from si0vm1949.rbesz01.com ( [10.58.173.29]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by si0vm2082.rbesz01.com (SMG Outbound) with SMTP id 66.17.14430.97E11ED5; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (si-mbx2033.de.bosch.com [10.3.230.36]) by si0vm1949.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Pb8n0DFTz6CjZNX; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.36) by SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1847.3; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:48 +0100 Received: from SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com ([fe80::e8d2:d090:af15:3320]) by SI-MBX2033.de.bosch.com ([fe80::e8d2:d090:af15:3320%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1847.005; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:34:48 +0100 From: "Kraus Achim (INST/ECS4)" To: Carsten Bormann CC: Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? Thread-Index: AQHVppE/OetFI+DdS0KoPWGUqntDGKeh/YWAgAAS76D///J4gIAAIYaw Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> <09a7f0f318dc4f45a3cdd7791b28ecdd@bosch-si.com> <920091F4-EEA4-4407-AEBD-BE1C37DF199C@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <920091F4-EEA4-4407-AEBD-BE1C37DF199C@tzi.org> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.121.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA22Tb0wbdRjH+fWu9Fp223Gs9FlHF1YgzkX5pywElsV/2Xij853zT8Uit7YO WtYrMOYLcWa4FZyADWCRwYAaRLC1jq0urmiFCTWLUhFZYB1sptIywjQqWeiIba+sfeGby/f3 fe7zPM/vezkCo3sIKaHRGhi9VlkhTxThoqJh2eN1uxYVuUYTv3DMdJNfaOw5Jyh0rlixp7CS iU+n+SX9/fd5JW29mhexV0T7y5kKTQ2jzznwhkjd+ucfeJVNeqLfeklQj2Z3GJGQAOpJcKyf EoQ1TbXzoGWYNiJRSF9FsNw9w+cOKwhs804ed/gWwdW+gQiSSBVBa8/3Eb2dksPPU0OJRkQQ GPUWzP2qCtspVA241z5L5F6pBZv9FM7pg3Cx5Qw/rHEqC/5+fxELa5IqhksLQwJu1i8I2j4M RvoLQ4WN1rkIjCgZ2Gw/RQCMkoDdt8bnrkNB/zecD5QY/Hc2on46vHvPHt3tUbBeyeHQ3WBq XBRwc5Nh8uPf8WYkMcd1NccIcxxhjiN6ED6IxKwmt6YyP7cwP1tfxrAnc/Oy39RV2hH30VId yOI+6kI8ArlQAcGTi0mFZ0FBby3Tldeplay6VF9dwbByKfnO3bMKOuWhzVaXVWpYVqPTuhAQ mHw7WdZ1S0GT5cq6k4xex2EutJPA5RJSRRx+jaZUSgNzjGGqGP1mtZgg5EB60xYVdLKeUTEn jmoqDJtluYxECQkJdGp8JX4sjxC60BPEltDsA7JQC5KtUlayGlUU38Hh9KYbQ93oMNHs7+rF iO/Gz4eeY12WXozGtTotI5WQR8LrUGFKXa19uI00jZydCAUjjivEOgbQDUQgeQpZH4a3hP6M 2B5A1oejS46aMSjfEmIobxJY7zQieNAwwAPHxS95sGTvxMEz18mH4A//8sExOygAR8cqAU0f GIUwOe0Twvzl0yIYOGvZCh1t97bBPwujNCw5btNgvf6eGIK3roshcPmrVDjjcgJMr68CDAQb d8INz3AafG25mQa3xwO7YNQ3kQ5Nwy0Z0HnflwHm0zOZ0HFtPAuGTNN7wPpj82PgHfTnBUIh 80IhO895wyEblIb/CTnqxm4nrUcZRX0v7NV46gp2d/XdPc4+k9L2qq/m+SnjR02PpOKlBQUy Ysz79Mj5Zw/2JhyTtKuHGtrHBaMdfyWlG7P2sLWT19Yyfcl93VXiEWfSF588N7i80u09Esgs zV7d92B5PXhl5POc4t8mXvbMzL++b8Xv3zhU635p/1Kn+/gU63v7gqlBLcdZtTJvL6Znlf8B qDiR2bMEAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? 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Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:55:39 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:55:39 +0100 Cc: Christer Holmberg , "core@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 596728537.0878201-1306146de4999a3caf6421d6611de75b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <41889A1F-ACC3-458B-B57F-503A55D1D2A3@ericsson.com> <09a7f0f318dc4f45a3cdd7791b28ecdd@bosch-si.com> <920091F4-EEA4-4407-AEBD-BE1C37DF199C@tzi.org> To: "Kraus Achim (INST/ECS4)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Retransmission of non-confirmable response message upon receiving request message retranmission? X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:55:44 -0000 On Nov 29, 2019, at 14:34, Kraus Achim (INST/ECS4) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Carsten, >=20 >> It does not mean the separate response is automatically retransmitted = (that has its own ACK cycle). >=20 > though you're the author, I'm sure you know the intention :-). >=20 > Only resending the ACK, may keep the exchange open on the client side. > I'm wondering, in which use-case this would be preferred over = resending the flight,=20 > which completes the exchange on the client side.=20 > I hope my interpretation, that the decision is left to the = implementation, is right?=20 Well, yes, but you also need to consider congestion control. =20 So I would not be too liberal about sending duplicate messages for the = response side (at least I would make sure that the early resend counts = against the outstanding retransmissions and triggers the exponential = backoff in the same way as a retransmission =E2=80=94 the sender should, = of course, also go into exponential backoff, so this will be mostly OK = then). If there is an RTT estimate (CoCoA/Fasor), I=E2=80=99d also not send a = duplicate if the RTT (RTO actually) has not elapsed since the last = message was sent; the original message still has a good chance to arrive = then. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten