From nobody Mon Jul 1 10:29:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D311202C5 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:29:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sw9YLcxPImUe for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 264D11202CA for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [185.201.60.211] (port=53033 helo=[192.168.201.176]) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hi06h-0004Oy-PS for 105attendees@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 18:28:51 +0100 From: Colin Perkins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <361ECB8E-03B4-4C73-B597-5E66124A9F05@csperkins.org> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 18:28:46 +0100 To: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 4 Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] IRTF ANRW at IETF 105 X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 17:29:02 -0000 The IRTF/ACM Applied Networking Research Workshop will be held on 22 = July 2019, co-located with the IETF 105 meeting in Montreal. The = workshop provides a forum for researchers, vendors, network operators = and the Internet standards community to present and discuss emerging = results in applied networking research. The programme for the workshop is available at = https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/program.html - there will be talks on several = topics likely of interest to the IETF community, including QUIC, DNS and = DoH, NTP, ALTO, middleboxes, and network measurement. Attendance is free for those registered to attend IETF 105, but you MUST = pre-register for the ANRW if you=E2=80=99d like to attend using the form = at https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/attend.html Colin Perkins As IRTF Chair From nobody Tue Jul 2 07:35:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B021200F3; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:35:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8eWH0u3lIzab; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1EE212008C; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id h24so15643499qto.0; Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:35:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=jd6r/N5YyTLBtxx4L/8xohvu40K6QsYPQ3m4ou4JNGc=; b=flsK4X0U2fxAWuuhfX9G+U13upeenyvLBbQLFBlW9inaAS+bDcgjjSDNvXJxJoyIcE h+RGv1aHq5bik2XTXgr7O25Nny9AHupAERkkuQXG2nsWKOaSd2DL1WRFRyzcoYwPlG7Y 8LcNi6ZTZHU3xHOuu2evEHsR3UYb7EH7jyMdRpF+smN6mkwxzyTlSTKwkhjEaEeXtfTU Co7hoGHCAmAPAEVqwI5IoAw5uF8xqdi/UsdFEQjIDRzBwKzPpvmC6jXxwS9ga4Q0z6tz bS6l6M7IQ0hGxrXDeRdsfZX9pmVXk3juTnzrrXHq4SPxjbSV8Di5IX7vbOukh+M+O/7G unPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=jd6r/N5YyTLBtxx4L/8xohvu40K6QsYPQ3m4ou4JNGc=; b=fdsKsOEb9X9d7+YwdMUBuX2MlKhmCdtnJxseTXj71wfmW29FaJ1BJFtlyhV+dNqSfV FuUF5kqcYrIAaixTjzsbVXHnjs7nQ6UR3tMgYrqOQJ9p1vlf1QP4kYMDTZUi+OTP4KAe lAMUU4Y+/LF6ULkspkiUfU3eNMsBSaYN5Dw9UcLUnRVWe/q4+SDLKalcGJQosLlec73I obc/mgcJzwnLuVY9KoBc7QbWtZ24+HchzwhEHuxSCWMflVSUfRBrBr5y74UnIY76ejOa moJPmHX3UdYZyoVig5CYs/rLHeVt/qxxqZzv5CAgUe6OuuPEBhE+POxighUD/54Af4EJ S+1g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWQWPn4wuZqBhlkgLWR7tFjcH63WbUWkGNWSqXnsSzYtB8i5sLi 9dxOlBomu855yeuLs/7dSUC1twXk X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy4N8UdpiEE07LChmTrXvGrS8JmahpLohSQrh13TFv99J3KWW0FDRcoII9oEWg3rpCoUoAgCQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3267:: with SMTP id y36mr25078359qta.293.1562078149685; Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.19.32.166] ([2001:4878:a000:3000:8d61:a87a:92b2:9070]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i22sm7489949qti.30.2019.07.02.07.35.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Aaron Falk" To: "IRTF Discuss" , "IETF WG Chairs" , "IETF Discussion" , "105 attendees" <105attendees@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:35:45 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.5r5635) Message-ID: <39E1B85A-AAAE-4F77-8037-77B97EB41A14@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_78298A00-77D6-41C1-A93B-45866AC247C3_=" Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] Let's have some fun: PechaKucha & friends X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 14:35:53 -0000 --=_MailMate_78298A00-77D6-41C1-A93B-45866AC247C3_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social event around = satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the past, it=E2=80= =99s = been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKucha format is = rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minimal text). = So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment. This time, any talk format wi= ll be = allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes. As before, = the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or = controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited. Anyone can = participate in this unofficial social event. The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:30pm. = Location will be announced later. If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here are two of my = personal favorites from prior IETFs by = [Pete](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-099-Prague-videos/07-pete-resnick= -8.mp4) = and = [Brian](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-096-Berlin-videos/2_trammel-8.mp= 4). = Video from the past BA PKs can be found = [here](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai). If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tutorials and = suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a few: = [[1](http://www.pechakucha.org/)], = [[2](http://blog.indezine.com/2012/05/10-tips-to-create-and-present-pecha= =2Ehtml)], = [[3](https://catherinecronin.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/pecha-kucha/)]. As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions, People!=E2=80=9D= Format Details: * Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first served. * To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to = aaron.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation. * Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes = (strictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach). * Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF. --=_MailMate_78298A00-77D6-41C1-A93B-45866AC247C3_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social= event around satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the = past, it=E2=80=99s been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the Pec= haKucha format is rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds= , minimal text). So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment. This time, = any talk format will be allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7= minutes. As before, the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and = satirical or controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited. Anyo= ne can participate in this unofficial social event.

The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9= :30pm. Location will be announced later.

If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here = are two of my personal favorites from prior IETFs by Pete and Brian. Vi= deo from the past BA PKs can be found here.

If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online = tutorials and suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a = few: [1], [2], [3].

As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions= , People!=E2=80=9D

Format Details:

--=_MailMate_78298A00-77D6-41C1-A93B-45866AC247C3_=-- From nobody Wed Jul 3 02:54:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2FD12029A for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 02:54:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CTaoEBHPOFnc for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 02:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F223D120019 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 02:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A77620D4 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 05:53:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id BqcBDJ4SIR1D for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 05:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49FA362067 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 05:53:48 -0400 (EDT) To: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 05:53:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] Time wrong for side meetings X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 09:54:04 -0000 As I am setting up a side meeting, I noticed a problem with the times at: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/side-meetings/ This seems to pull its times from: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings Which is what I updated. The former is showing 8 hours earlier on my system than the later. Are others seeing the same time problem or is it something misconfigured on my new system? thanks From nobody Wed Jul 3 06:31:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200F31200C4 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TJlL2Rnt1AZm for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Yes, I also see the meeting itmes to be wrong. So the Technolghy deep dive starts 8:30 local time Tuesday in Montreal. With my current local that would be 14:30 CEST, but the calender shows 21:30.=20 I will forward this to the IETF secretariat to look at.=20 Cheers Magnus On Wed, 2019-07-03 at 05:53 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > As I am setting up a side meeting, I noticed a problem with the times > at: >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/side-meetings/ >=20 > This seems to pull its times from: >=20 > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings >=20 > Which is what I updated. >=20 > The former is showing 8 hours earlier on my system than the later. >=20 > Are others seeing the same time problem or is it something > misconfigured=20 > on my new system? >=20 > thanks >=20 --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B73F120047 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 06:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D96620D4; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:35:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id swO+PzjpbmN7; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7917162067; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) To: Magnus Westerlund , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org> References: From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:35:25 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------678E62E43FEC82616D0DFD18" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Time wrong for side meetings X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 13:35:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------678E62E43FEC82616D0DFD18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Henrik has fixed the script.  Supposedly in a few hours the calendar times will be corrected. On 7/3/19 9:31 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, I also see the meeting itmes to be wrong. So the Technolghy deep > dive starts 8:30 local time Tuesday in Montreal. With my current local > that would be 14:30 CEST, but the calender shows 21:30. > > I will forward this to the IETF secretariat to look at. > > Cheers > > Magnus > > On Wed, 2019-07-03 at 05:53 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote: >> As I am setting up a side meeting, I noticed a problem with the times >> at: >> >> https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/side-meetings/ >> >> This seems to pull its times from: >> >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings >> >> Which is what I updated. >> >> The former is showing 8 hours earlier on my system than the later. >> >> Are others seeing the same time problem or is it something >> misconfigured >> on my new system? >> >> thanks >> -- Standard Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C:248-219-2059 F:248-968-2824 E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit --------------678E62E43FEC82616D0DFD18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Henrik has fixed the script.  Supposedly in a few hours the calendar times will be corrected.



On 7/3/19 9:31 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
Hi,

Yes, I also see the meeting itmes to be wrong. So the Technolghy deep
dive starts 8:30 local time Tuesday in Montreal. With my current local
that would be 14:30 CEST, but the calender shows 21:30. 

I will forward this to the IETF secretariat to look at. 

Cheers

Magnus

On Wed, 2019-07-03 at 05:53 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

As I am setting up a side meeting, I noticed a problem with the times
at:

https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/side-meetings/

This seems to pull its times from:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings

Which is what I updated.

The former is showing 8 hours earlier on my system than the later.

Are others seeing the same time problem or is it something
misconfigured 
on my new system?

thanks

--
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
--------------678E62E43FEC82616D0DFD18-- From nobody Fri Jul 12 00:47:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F391201DA for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QU6qN0LQ_AOO for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B160B1201D8 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [81.187.2.149] (port=45112 helo=[192.168.0.81]) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hlqHU-0000pG-Kj for 105attendees@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:47:53 +0100 From: Colin Perkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_25092B61-AB60-425F-BBAD-3392F90C3134" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:47:46 +0100 References: <361ECB8E-03B4-4C73-B597-5E66124A9F05@csperkins.org> To: 105attendees@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <361ECB8E-03B4-4C73-B597-5E66124A9F05@csperkins.org> Message-Id: <3F352D39-788A-4B6A-A4DD-2A8E1A593BCB@csperkins.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] IRTF ANRW at IETF 105 X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 07:47:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_25092B61-AB60-425F-BBAD-3392F90C3134 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 A reminder that the ANRW is happening on the Monday of IETF =E2=80=93 = it=E2=80=99s free to attend if you=E2=80=99re registered for IETF, but = you MUST register in advance (https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/attend.html = ) Colin > On 1 Jul 2019, at 18:28, Colin Perkins wrote: >=20 > The IRTF/ACM Applied Networking Research Workshop will be held on 22 = July 2019, co-located with the IETF 105 meeting in Montreal. The = workshop provides a forum for researchers, vendors, network operators = and the Internet standards community to present and discuss emerging = results in applied networking research. >=20 > The programme for the workshop is available at = https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/program.html - there will be talks on several = topics likely of interest to the IETF community, including QUIC, DNS and = DoH, NTP, ALTO, middleboxes, and network measurement. >=20 > Attendance is free for those registered to attend IETF 105, but you = MUST pre-register for the ANRW if you=E2=80=99d like to attend using the = form at https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/attend.html >=20 > Colin Perkins > As IRTF Chair >=20 > --=20 > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees --Apple-Mail=_25092B61-AB60-425F-BBAD-3392F90C3134 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 A = reminder that the ANRW is happening on the Monday of IETF  =E2=80=93 = it=E2=80=99s free to attend if you=E2=80=99re registered for IETF, but = you MUST register in advance (https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/attend.html)

Colin



On 1 Jul = 2019, at 18:28, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> wrote:

The = IRTF/ACM Applied Networking Research Workshop will be held on 22 July = 2019, co-located with the IETF 105 meeting in Montreal. The workshop = provides a forum for researchers, vendors, network operators and the = Internet standards community to present and discuss emerging results in = applied networking research.

The programme = for the workshop is available at https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/program.html - there will be = talks on several topics likely of interest to the IETF community, = including QUIC, DNS and DoH, NTP, ALTO, middleboxes, and network = measurement.

Attendance is free for those = registered to attend IETF 105, but you MUST pre-register for the ANRW if = you=E2=80=99d like to attend using the form at https://irtf.org/anrw/2019/attend.html

Colin Perkins
As IRTF Chair

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



= --Apple-Mail=_25092B61-AB60-425F-BBAD-3392F90C3134-- From nobody Fri Jul 12 13:42:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B0812008B; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ew6l82cwx5_S; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79D77120131; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id d23so9550371qto.2; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XRr3z8vgOQMqMbUR1/va/Ch7vyQBMBWQ8l2T9Kp2288=; b=flMmQP8csVFYVNApFpNlzC7lK09b+swuY5IoMFJDw40GFpCMuYXsOL/SOmkO/VnVFB b6lu3WllMz2wf4UdAmW7HJpw1PZeiP4esjrIvf+NYYm9ECIrMdlH3oQzJo1A/FOcTwAV mNctZjcS2safLdaHg8bl4Oo+kAaAovvyT5zMdT3nC7x8Fx6qk1ElWtPRQ8v7zwxalQ+Y csFALq38sQ5xGNZA0wcyQcuHu+qjpkgk/HzPZXZfBpRE7VDWPKt4euSjQe7SposqL8Gs b7caXAJ3f5IcuAQNA/lcKn7NZVr/fx0xu7ItpxU6c7lHmEvn85o0pn4PQvQFDKfss2Xf rqtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XRr3z8vgOQMqMbUR1/va/Ch7vyQBMBWQ8l2T9Kp2288=; b=lF3tyGLJum/N/8mgWpWKfA3oVOmQ9eRbpqFMMuKIPbOJFPQ2nwoMc0mFl84ws8/rCi MD5oXvYVRBjlnXyxldC1oKfA345sVV83jJgBHP3rwXoltmgj8IFOISbFsxXpT8cZsWEV bCHhaD+jA+L8S4tTET/Sv+8yKLeRbs0YrKdSOHb4x7Xi1pl9xx6HfFiDtOBvv1ZFJxBC mtBUjf/ieRwTzxBpJKhvC3kwLxXw1mm+PmBK4nlGc0mmPG0seKKQz1nU7T6sk/DChhbZ Y5Y/QQzdr5cMjUZbxKB67b9ZQaoGVRrpUl3RIX+Gp1xXczP3tAyqIcHI0Lesw6iCE0Qr PPiw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVIKcOveVaiMnD0+4if9TJFxF+PqT82+82TDBU4oRGVc0RDgahh MjOiJlBA18zkbVuzQUF0S9Vsn8z3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzSjgtvskq0F9wod9mcOUZdUt+1f7xdsjUHKW97CvFH1Ov0VGmYSnQPRBmbyPGZr0Ijcw/E0g== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:65d4:: with SMTP id t20mr2569456qto.249.1562964119314; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.19.32.121] ([73.61.21.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d141sm4162113qke.3.2019.07.12.13.41.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Aaron Falk" To: "IRTF Discuss" , "IETF WG Chairs" , "IETF Discussion" , 105attendees@ietf.org Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:41:57 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.5r5635) Message-ID: <275771A8-E51C-4523-AF58-44D5E66A97A7@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_344C7286-327F-42C8-8E26-69D36462780E_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] CFP: Request for Conversation (HotRFC) lightning talks @ IETF-105 X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:42:03 -0000 --=_MailMate_344C7286-327F-42C8-8E26-69D36462780E_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *Do you have an idea, problem space, or proposal that IETFers should hear about? Do you want to propose IETF work but aren’t sure if your idea is ready or who will be interested?* Agenda requests are now being accepted for the Request for Conversation (HotRFC) lightning talk session. Presenters will get 4 minutes and a few slides to make their case for collaboration. Interested folks can continue the discussion afterwards and over the week. Goals include encouraging brainstorming conversations, helping new work ideas to find co-collaborators, raising awareness of relevant work going on elsewhere, and promote BarBoFs. The session will be Sunday, July 21, 6-8pm (starting 1 hour after the welcome reception begins). Request a slot by sending a short abstract to hotrfc@ietf.org. See https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/hotrfc/ for more details and [the agenda page](https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/agenda-105-hotrfc-00) for the current list of talks. --=_MailMate_344C7286-327F-42C8-8E26-69D36462780E_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Do you have an idea, problem space, or proposal that = IETFers should hear about?
Do you want to propose IETF work but aren=E2=80=99t sure if your idea is = ready or who will be interested?

Agenda requests are now being accepted for the Request fo= r Conversation (HotRFC) lightning talk session. Presenters will get 4 min= utes and a few slides to make their case for collaboration. Interested fo= lks can continue the discussion afterwards and over the week. Goals inclu= de encouraging brainstorming conversations, helping new work ideas to fin= d co-collaborators, raising awareness of relevant work going on elsewhere= , and promote BarBoFs.

The session will be Sunday, July 21, 6-8pm (starting 1 ho= ur after the welcome reception begins).

Request a slot by sending a short abstract to hotrfc@ietf= =2Eorg. See https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/105/hotrfc/ f= or more details and the agenda page for the current list of talks.

--=_MailMate_344C7286-327F-42C8-8E26-69D36462780E_=-- From nobody Fri Jul 12 13:42:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2207120892; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id otrba7_tGB4z; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82e.google.com (mail-qt1-x82e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E8B31208B7; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82e.google.com with SMTP id l9so9535538qtu.6; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=Kc7ffquZrkYk0Alq6OwI7Ow8+ba0+BwWKCSOXAV7VFE=; b=B1M9vibYGWNcGfJTIbA6xaDKzvhiO0sTSZPdW+U0a8rVUogG8FlHS3nIxw8M9Pv7bK LRx/th7NBKkXFLPNV9NzLbIz7+hk0miJnwiS/zFcSU1T8d3dNKueb0bwJWSyY2ZJalqs lEx/MPoL+Aa7EW2WMxsMH3Lrtg/jq/S3bAlEFY68GWwn3KDgM7nIff09wNFFSisQW3hU qcAWAnot2NLugv396Jxe0BLZDcx/XrQPHWBQoTUgV0bix4Nkx6oKJHwNnd1HwiEYZY0V cClwkZIA93c+6CYml/6UwcxpxhupfVESzIDSEwdtiZ8+GCu2wKGbO950DUz7Qn8GJzih RMTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=Kc7ffquZrkYk0Alq6OwI7Ow8+ba0+BwWKCSOXAV7VFE=; b=fhFnBb/UgpW05cpggiIBd5/eqh8qeauKHC3G7OkLPsZ6U1LDYz1No6Xq8S3HX9seBE QMW3cT+IYMPT0wemelrzkCf59EC9LviOoOySBCTdkcHRP+4Np0VtkA5nRdMa0SoOVAAR enSKJInCSgS6QOlGIMh5n7Rv4C2Fm5/2CiuoXJ2tcXymBYKSsSzgYJisvNYR5uNm+FSb l/hOWK0sEUHjzZsHRMQQrQlyjcnCs/8F7hH5P2hoDyZ+dPvZBvAPLcBdajMdJ/6wwp3e dqawT5a8rIlJRnI/8ejxZVBeTn9AzeN0hehhuObuKCJ/DA77GWcm1ovciVI2FqzFu5IB ZoOw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUfSWRvRp7vK3z/cE42dH15K8C2Y4TVOH3KLMdxLrw40c+AS85U qoi/n3YdySKavIn9wgmBzTI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/SSkc5+qwf25MPecjXFbaYD6t+ZZxgVrP92NxVUVsugmGGpjQlWRfhkXmS/b5EvoSjsgOzw== X-Received: by 2002:aed:2f03:: with SMTP id l3mr8215349qtd.264.1562964150113; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.19.32.121] ([73.61.21.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d141sm4162113qke.3.2019.07.12.13.42.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:42:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Aaron Falk" To: "IRTF Discuss" , "IETF WG Chairs" , "IETF Discussion" , "105 attendees" <105attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:42:28 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.5r5635) Message-ID: <59274A6D-D5D9-4E6B-B092-E6E295436A26@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_CCE9246A-D8DB-4C3D-B61E-DB6EB345BADE_=" Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] Let's have some fun: PechaKucha & friends X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:42:42 -0000 --=_MailMate_CCE9246A-D8DB-4C3D-B61E-DB6EB345BADE_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social event around = satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the past, it=E2=80= =99s = been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKucha format is = rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minimal text). = So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment. This time, any talk format wi= ll be = allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes. As before, = the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or = controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited. Anyone can = participate in this unofficial social event. The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:30pm. = Location will be announced later. If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here are two of my = personal favorites from prior IETFs by = [Pete](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-099-Prague-videos/07-pete-resnick= -8.mp4) = and = [Brian](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-096-Berlin-videos/2_trammel-8.mp= 4). = Video from the past BA PKs can be found = [here](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai). If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tutorials and = suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a few: = [[1](http://www.pechakucha.org/)], = [[2](http://blog.indezine.com/2012/05/10-tips-to-create-and-present-pecha= =2Ehtml)], = [[3](https://catherinecronin.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/pecha-kucha/)]. As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions, People!=E2=80=9D= Format Details: * Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first served. * To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to = aaron.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation. * Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes = (strictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach). * Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF. --=_MailMate_CCE9246A-D8DB-4C3D-B61E-DB6EB345BADE_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social= event around satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the = past, it=E2=80=99s been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the Pec= haKucha format is rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds= , minimal text). So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment. This time, = any talk format will be allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7= minutes. As before, the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and = satirical or controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited. Anyo= ne can participate in this unofficial social event.

The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9= :30pm. Location will be announced later.

If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here = are two of my personal favorites from prior IETFs by Pete and Brian. Vi= deo from the past BA PKs can be found here.

If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online = tutorials and suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a = few: [1], [2], [3].

As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions= , People!=E2=80=9D

Format Details:

--=_MailMate_CCE9246A-D8DB-4C3D-B61E-DB6EB345BADE_=-- From nobody Fri Jul 12 13:47:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B66120131 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:47:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SEUa-3Q_Zx13 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walnut.tislabs.com (walnut.tislabs.com [192.94.214.200]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E5E512006B for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.tislabs.com (unknown [10.66.1.77]) by walnut.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC32D28B003B for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by nova.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1791F804E; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:47:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Sandra Murphy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <8E27A1DA-08F0-4369-9734-D810CA0D3A0D@tislabs.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 16:47:41 -0400 Cc: Sandra Murphy To: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] looking for a social ticket X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:47:47 -0000 I think I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message = thread. I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out. If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you. =E2=80=94Sandy From nobody Fri Jul 12 14:05:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CF71202E0 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:05:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rQF_2QEQxi-D for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57C2912006B for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1149D6210E; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 17:05:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id YABzkedB-JwL; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 17:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D88C607B1; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 17:05:22 -0400 (EDT) To: Sandra Murphy , 105attendees@ietf.org References: <8E27A1DA-08F0-4369-9734-D810CA0D3A0D@tislabs.com> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <1f34db30-d045-f5c3-9c01-184a630e33f6@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 17:05:19 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8E27A1DA-08F0-4369-9734-D810CA0D3A0D@tislabs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] quite list - Re: looking for a social ticket X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:05:37 -0000 I can't remember a meeting when the list was so quite so close to the meeting week! On 7/12/19 4:47 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > I think I’m the first to start the usual attendees message thread. > > I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out. > > If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you. > > —Sandy > From nobody Mon Jul 15 01:25:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E48120074 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:25:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtKK1Knu_3TQ for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.outgoing.loopia.se (smtp.outgoing.loopia.se [194.9.95.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 074AF12001E for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s554.loopia.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by s554.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341491F131E6 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from s498.loopia.se (unknown [172.21.200.36]) by s554.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16205794AEF; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from s472.loopia.se (unknown [172.22.191.6]) by s498.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D844707B4; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amavis.loopia.se Received: from s498.loopia.se ([172.22.191.5]) by s472.loopia.se (s472.loopia.se [172.22.190.12]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id HsyV-l-DkuS8; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Loopia-Auth: user X-Loopia-User: mailstore2@aaa-sec.com X-Loopia-Originating-IP: 85.235.7.89 Received: from [192.168.1.217] (gw.aaa-sec.ideon.se [85.235.7.89]) (Authenticated sender: mailstore2@aaa-sec.com) by s498.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 67FF5470778; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:16 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1a.0.190609 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 10:25:15 +0200 From: Stefan Santesson To: Robert Moskowitz , Sandra Murphy , <105attendees@ietf.org> Message-ID: <6A1B8483-0E73-4435-AAC4-E83F59B514A1@aaa-sec.com> Thread-Topic: [105attendees] quite list - Re: looking for a social ticket References: <8E27A1DA-08F0-4369-9734-D810CA0D3A0D@tislabs.com> <1f34db30-d045-f5c3-9c01-184a630e33f6@labs.htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: <1f34db30-d045-f5c3-9c01-184a630e33f6@labs.htt-consult.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] quite list - Re: looking for a social ticket X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 08:25:22 -0000 And you instantly thought you had to do something about it __=20 Stefan Santesson=20 =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-07-12, 23:05, "105attendees on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" <105a= ttendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote: I can't remember a meeting when the list was so quite so close to the=20 meeting week! =20 On 7/12/19 4:47 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > I think I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message thread. > > I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold ou= t. > > If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you. > > =E2=80=94Sandy > =20 --=20 105attendees mailing list 105attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees =20 From nobody Mon Jul 15 02:39:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C8012006E for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 02:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qead-ODPX5xR for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 02:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B654120048 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 02:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62219620B9; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 05:39:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id udUA4cUsDy7C; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 05:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 704F1615EA; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 05:38:55 -0400 (EDT) To: Stefan Santesson , Sandra Murphy , 105attendees@ietf.org References: <8E27A1DA-08F0-4369-9734-D810CA0D3A0D@tislabs.com> <1f34db30-d045-f5c3-9c01-184a630e33f6@labs.htt-consult.com> <6A1B8483-0E73-4435-AAC4-E83F59B514A1@aaa-sec.com> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <6a3106ec-b779-e199-30c5-5d0e40e67872@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 05:38:47 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6A1B8483-0E73-4435-AAC4-E83F59B514A1@aaa-sec.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5FF480E8FF79AB7C6F04A14B" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] quite list - Re: looking for a social ticket X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 09:39:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5FF480E8FF79AB7C6F04A14B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit :)' One of my degrees is in Botany; Successional Ecology to be exact. One 'axiom' there is "Nature abhors a vacuum".   But I don't think this is covered in RFC 1925... On 7/15/19 4:25 AM, Stefan Santesson wrote: > And you instantly thought you had to do something about it __ > > Stefan Santesson > > On 2019-07-12, 23:05, "105attendees on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote: > > I can't remember a meeting when the list was so quite so close to the > meeting week! > > On 7/12/19 4:47 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > > I think I’m the first to start the usual attendees message thread. > > > > I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out. > > > > If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you. > > > > —Sandy > > > > -- > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees > > > -- Standard Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C:248-219-2059 F:248-968-2824 E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit --------------5FF480E8FF79AB7C6F04A14B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit :)'

One of my degrees is in Botany; Successional Ecology to be exact.  One 'axiom' there is "Nature abhors a vacuum".   But I don't think this is covered in RFC 1925...

On 7/15/19 4:25 AM, Stefan Santesson wrote:
And you instantly thought you had to do something about it __ 

Stefan Santesson 

On 2019-07-12, 23:05, "105attendees on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote:

    I can't remember a meeting when the list was so quite so close to the 
    meeting week!
    
    On 7/12/19 4:47 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote:
    > I think I’m the first to start the usual attendees message thread.
    >
    > I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.
    >
    > If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.
    >
    > —Sandy
    >
    
    -- 
    105attendees mailing list
    105attendees@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
--------------5FF480E8FF79AB7C6F04A14B-- From nobody Mon Jul 15 11:30:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F121202F6 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sL88RonXlWCD for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 224A01202B5 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 95F42247AC for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: 105attendees@ietf.org Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:19 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] Request for IETF Guides to help introduce new attendees the ways of the IETF X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:30:39 -0000 Good folks, Thank you bunch to everyone that has contributed to the IETF Guides program in the past. We'd love your help again (or your help for the first time!) for IETF 105. If you're coming to Montreal and willing to have a few conversations with a new attendee, please consider volunteering to the IETF Guides program. We need experienced guides that have attended 5 or more IETF conferences. If you're able to participate, please head to our Guides page to sign up: https://guides.ietf.org/ On it you'll find further information about the program, and a link to the IETF Guides sign-up form: https://guides.ietf.org/guides/become_guide . *Note:* if you participated in IETF 104 and elected to save your profile information for future IETFs, you must still log in to update your arrival date to indicate you're coming to Montreal so we can pair you with a newcommer for IETF 105. Thanks again for your support of this well-appreciated program, which is only successful because of the Guides that make it happen. -- Wes Hardaker and Paul Wouters IETF Guides Program Leads From nobody Mon Jul 15 11:46:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196FE1201D4 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3TDoYaBAvl9t for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9604D12023B for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EE31E28780; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: Wes Hardaker Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org References: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Wes Hardaker's message of "Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:30:19 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Request for IETF Guides to help introduce new attendees the ways of the IETF X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:46:37 -0000 Wes Hardaker writes: > https://guides.ietf.org/ Whoops; turns out there is a bug with the latest server version combinations... The site will probably throw you an error at some point. We're looking into it and should hopefully have it fixed shortly. So if you're willing to be a guide, please delay a bit before submitting information. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Mon Jul 15 14:32:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B50120129 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:32:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.035 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.035 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=forgerock.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jldtPIYgKry1 for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F202212002E for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id q26so12076063lfc.3 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=forgerock.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=VAWRetToPGjv61Jn44+1hSIpLg2//T9HimxADC5yxnE=; b=IIIZiuo1rS865yrNMKV1rADRiMmRSxJ9026vxUOITXCI/wN8PvDYqZHVoJhplHhMrm Pl/l8Xd55YloVMQY0A8Z+iT8MjoSgSEWwx3wSv87D1tYbSoAcNIGd8FhWmTk30bJ5QYT 4wlP5Hd0wqXi4MlzQL5X3ZQ+ac+4WKAs4TEcM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=VAWRetToPGjv61Jn44+1hSIpLg2//T9HimxADC5yxnE=; b=OqkwjzSwTuBWghgrKThbPMFz3ZB0W7tyhGIW1yJW6soqPfXDSCuA5/I2RW/TdDMazm VPdF4/2bF48cLdgsyAABWPBdNOmJYO7MEebOeNTIoqSS97uiPZfAOTbW+WAotrPZnv0a tzplKfOfp6WXeQJ0xyO+kTd3n1d7M1uKtsHwKNPGu+YcjcjK0xs/2l+JVM0orc4wrnvk P0P3oCJ4J131ftEJB2ikNFWv4xSK7dvsnKrmfbfSU/7mSXGiH0c7j1rbpnhFcTLeuxI9 lAEPHhyXcjnQLOW4CbsLDExZ6+51cCtMXmxP2yLBfx5npFWPA3uqXHlIo1CxSCa/dH+2 8ovA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWjn+fO3pXapTcVDKRlkdF+n7qNQnZLycqZWTJx0aWKkXp5/W1d Jm01logqulXLXlDbUovyz0WXK6oCalesGwz421dtV30y X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy905YbPU5eI1P8OKpVijquxFnpBFs9i13vH01s1w38QARljJlkt94kghPZgfcR4kAI2pak/VA2SU4g1qrpY08= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4ace:: with SMTP id m14mr1083813lfp.99.1563226357732; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:32:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eve Maler Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:32:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: 105attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c1b524058dbeffe0" Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] How to cancel my in-person registration and get a fee refund? X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 21:32:41 -0000 --000000000000c1b524058dbeffe0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Unfortunately I can't attend, as I'd hoped. It looks like the deadline is in about half an hour if I'm reading the important dates right. [image: ForgeRock] *Eve Maler* VP Innovation & Emerging Technology | ForgeRock *t* (425) 345-6756 | *e* eve.maler@forgerock.com *twitter* xmlgrrl | *web* www.forgerock.com --000000000000c1b524058dbeffe0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Unfortunately I can't attend, as I'd hoped. It loo= ks like the deadline is in about half an hour if I'm reading the import= ant dates right.=C2=A0

=
3D"For=Eve Maler
VP Innovation= & Emerging Technology=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 ForgeRock
t=C2=A0(425) 345-6756=C2=A0 |=C2=A0= =C2=A0e=C2=A0eve.maler@forgerock.com=
twitter=C2=A0xmlgrrl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0web=C2=A0www.forgerock.com
=
--000000000000c1b524058dbeffe0-- From nobody Mon Jul 15 14:38:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C21512013A for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:38:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lXlWLnHUbZYP for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A86E12002E for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B9CD7287B7; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:38:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: Wes Hardaker Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org References: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:38:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Wes Hardaker's message of "Mon, 15 Jul 2019 11:46:28 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Request for IETF Guides to help introduce new attendees the ways of the IETF X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 21:38:54 -0000 Wes Hardaker writes: > Wes Hardaker writes: > > > https://guides.ietf.org/ The issue has been resolved, so if you're willing to volunteer for IETF105, please do commence with signing up using the link above. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Mon Jul 15 17:59:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C5012016C for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:59:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Kpn8uJuRt1k for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [204.42.254.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40D9A12014A for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 17:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:94f3:ba0d:b6cf:82c4] (unknown [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:94f3:ba0d:b6cf:82c4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puck.nether.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C7273540244; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 20:59:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jared Mauch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 20:59:13 -0400 Message-Id: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> To: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 00:59:19 -0000 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the = airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, make = an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they = generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type = experience if you have this instead. =20 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You must = get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs = $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. Most people don=E2=80=99t carry/use their GE cards except for backup ID, = but they are useful at the airports returning to the US. Hope this helps someone. - jared= From nobody Mon Jul 15 18:05:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8132112015D for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:05:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=forgerock.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tbKo657-0WwF for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 258E312014A for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id b17so12349570lff.7 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=forgerock.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CpvNP8HiQj7smp2Wxk01/4PN7gQe/B/KNepigtEKKIU=; b=QPNaAlncixdwupyT2Rb5+Dj5uvUr7Opb5IAakVA87Zyhby2TLgC2ygyr5tIl3lz7WS IVmuvQQrka2VCnQaroo+TrM9+W7FUxEC/envIJHGwMIQl3WY7Skvf2nKTgPt+Sij0YKC y0Y1mBhpDTBNxKU51d14KeJBqtETd1ESQGgpA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=CpvNP8HiQj7smp2Wxk01/4PN7gQe/B/KNepigtEKKIU=; b=JfLDeGIFCXCXvCa6nMpAJ3fY3wp9rwHJAApWh2I7tAE5AvMDjxXee3TEZcbLdYjtud pOw2w1r8pUhmEJy1H400d7J39CKmS8K8u3O2yhOKFjox8VGgwD7EomZjVUKQHO48V6nJ 1Uz9Is27jwTzIkidKZxk9epPIBsQ+Ig3sPw8CWX9+ninog7JZ7RMPRvbpJdfwPciSDwX ZEXoyp6H3Gf3LlX5Uvo1SmgembyqGMabqZKobBfXT04wtJg3O5GoOumCUhRyMNY2XzJy ErLlytKoX3Q4XyOCgSm4LOTTipmbp7rmH5ai/9RaVZ/VP81p0el+sGWknOOT6GwrMZO8 eFgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUS6zwv8NAWqNuhWSDTKdqJyuTAxuVSn6Y8+/5wniUmSfoWkdLZ TnWvAASFhLS6mQ5ft9t4oXIpUEDFqVtnFfnu047Tad5k X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzD5yTM5gKixilQNWQk+YXL+lcUPSVtYJQCXndY0j1xOP5ZrXakkGd56ya6eAL7H2n/t14RUgKLw8jJb5VriOw= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4ace:: with SMTP id m14mr1468745lfp.99.1563239136069; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 18:05:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Eve Maler Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 20:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: 105attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000679df5058dc1f9bf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] How to cancel my in-person registration and get a fee refund? X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 01:05:40 -0000 --000000000000679df5058dc1f9bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks to everyone who helped -- I'm all set! FYI, the best thing to do for anyone in this situation next time is to send mail to ietf-registrar@. And BTW, I only resorted to this list because the deadline was so very close. :) [image: ForgeRock] *Eve Maler* VP Innovation & Emerging Technology | ForgeRock *t* (425) 345-6756 | *e* eve.maler@forgerock.com *twitter* xmlgrrl | *web* www.forgerock.com On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 4:32 PM Eve Maler wrote: > Unfortunately I can't attend, as I'd hoped. It looks like the deadline is > in about half an hour if I'm reading the important dates right. > > [image: ForgeRock] *Eve Maler* > VP Innovation & Emerging Technology | ForgeRock > *t* (425) 345-6756 | *e* eve.maler@forgerock.com > *twitter* xmlgrrl | *web* www.forgerock.com > --000000000000679df5058dc1f9bf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to everyone who helped -- I'm = all set! FYI, the best thing to do for anyone in this situation next time i= s to send mail to ietf-registrar@. And BTW, I only resorted to this list be= cause the deadline was so very close. :)

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
3D"For=Eve Maler
VP Innovation= & Emerging Technology=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 ForgeRock
t=C2=A0(425) 345-6756=C2=A0 |=C2=A0= =C2=A0e=C2=A0eve.maler@forgerock.com=
twitter=C2=A0xmlgrrl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0web=C2=A0www.forgerock.com
=


On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 4:32 PM Eve Maler <eve.maler@forgerock.com> wrote:<= br>
Unfortunately I can't attend, as I'd hoped. It looks like the dead= line is in about half an hour if I'm reading the important dates right.= =C2=A0

3D"For=Eve Maler
VP Innovation= & Emerging Technology=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 ForgeRock
t=C2=A0(425) 345-6756=C2=A0 |=C2=A0= =C2=A0e=C2=A0eve.maler@forgerock.com=
twitter=C2=A0xmlgrrl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0web=C2=A0www.forgerock.com
=
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Mon, 15 Jul 2019 23:07:14 -0400 (EDT) To: 105attendees@ietf.org References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> From: Ken Murchison Organization: FastMail US LLC Message-ID: <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 23:07:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9B5C58D881CF8074F29BB189" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 03:07:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9B5C58D881CF8074F29BB189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: > 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It’s useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience > 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead. > 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience. Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada border in both directions. Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile. The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus. Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experiences. -- Ken Murchison Cyrus Development Team Fastmail US LLC --------------9B5C58D881CF8074F29BB189 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="murch.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="murch.vcf" bnVsbA== --------------9B5C58D881CF8074F29BB189-- From nobody Tue Jul 16 02:56:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A19612021D for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BficEEJlN7xp for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 02:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [IPv6:2001:418:3f4::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFDAD1201EF for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 02:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:c1f4:90c:d109:b1e] (unknown [IPv6:2603:3015:3606:cbe1:c1f4:90c:d109:b1e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puck.nether.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAB9F540199; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 05:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jared Mauch X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 05:55:57 -0400 Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> To: Ken Murchison Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 09:56:04 -0000 You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You can=E2= =80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It r= eally is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they a= pply and are approved with their parents at the same time. This means a who= le family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.=20 This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.=20 Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.=20 Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-) Sent from my iCar > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the airpor= t security line to get you TSA Pre type experience >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, make a= n appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they generally a= ccept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if yo= u have this instead. >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You must g= et your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y fo= r GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. >=20 > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little north o= f Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have= traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience. >=20 > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada borde= r in both directions. >=20 > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from a= nywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry= into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land ent= ry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile. >=20 > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I= do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus. >=20 > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experienc= es. >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Ken Murchison > Cyrus Development Team > Fastmail US LLC >=20 > > --=20 > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees From nobody Tue Jul 16 04:32:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A581203FA for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 04:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LCxHREuWca2L for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 04:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B8E012004D for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 04:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id n11so19121477qtl.5 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 04:32:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LkhHmDv2Kd0Kk8xngiOklMqhdmKosPfv9IJerjHuRDA=; b=aYZS5qK/efNN+yHWDMLXj6676y8NDu+fEqP5nTV4w2pBeuC2HjwhwwxPk4RK8vb7xJ KTl4Otmfp/H1+L4Pnq99bnnmB5vylOj3zkceclnFDx++ZU5SyXrzOto+NwaExYlOfQAW GRS4FXHxx3zO3gCezrOF49UwZH3YRcIWNMjo9n1SFXy6ICvQYK1F7Aq5AnUxzHq0DPAU rjpDQnBSPEskefGKKa8ITfG+mqNvyd8xDO+WHb3+3GxX534E1j1WOxMSlykpiuVGC00I jnCSPaeH8Som1h47Ahqk4gKe8fmRKI+Xd7YD+5RAUWPhIgkBVkCZUI75S5eCmEzlvr0L 5JMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LkhHmDv2Kd0Kk8xngiOklMqhdmKosPfv9IJerjHuRDA=; b=f2Xl69D78Y7Ykn0Xsm1WcF47Rb62M5kx29yTmRF+fpOlLf4ikjigTkYnlpIW4RXlU/ grz/wJSBdY+L/0RHdzhqlvKMyyq+mLbaq6o3zL8rSSGpaHdFL1VblS4SpcF37ypo3Sss X3NlBejk0ucvSxAWshj7A+6pAqtYG8GlciKBMSM2sb+/HUAO7F3aOocO1UbvwlwlxDja EP+xF/gIGaoXpMW3o5aT3FG6LNKi0S6+sfwcYthLO8i64O1N+tQHhnZf6Kqs65R9+gOU KKGO84gBanRatE3DEVcez3HzSrY5lkB/aq/YkJmpfpfJWDmMb6M2S5zZt34IFidHrT35 aPvA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXhKU7yeOXAfBdoE2aiiCFpHy1rxypTZnjDzHI6AZd7LFLqrqK2 +PEIaCduCO6qfzAezgM95gMjVWJgAK7sn2CEjZtWnA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzq/4Qd751TlNM0Vtx2w+zd+Taqpx2+lGnpBBdswvxl8JHujKW8spbuIi+O+bY94nLvs+GpIoA/e7cjA28+aNw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:baa8:: with SMTP id x40mr23949968qvf.168.1563276719038; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 04:31:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 07:31:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jared Mauch Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, Ken Murchison Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000086367a058dcab9e6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:32:04 -0000 --00000000000086367a058dcab9e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to in = the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I=E2=80=99d bee= n to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down to Korea, and without think= ing chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truis= m that if the name contains =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)... I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=E2= =80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9CHi= ! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but it was Sou= th Korea.l The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application. Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where the lines can be really long... W On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch wrote: > You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You ca= n=E2=80=99t use > the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is = a > deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and > are approved with their parents at the same time. This means a whole > family can get it for $100 regardless of their size. > > This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada. > > Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great. > > Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-) > > Sent from my iCar > > > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison wrote: > > > > > >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: > >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the air= port > security line to get you TSA Pre type experience > >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, mak= e > an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they > generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type > experience if you have this instead. > >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You mus= t > get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5= y > for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. > > > > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little > north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian borde= r > and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working > experience. > > > > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada > border in both directions. > > > > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US fro= m > anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited > entry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for > land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via > automobile. > > > > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border > like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexu= s. > > > > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my > experiences. > > > > -- > > > > Ken Murchison > > Cyrus Development Team > > Fastmail US LLC > > > > > > -- > > 105attendees mailing list > > 105attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees > > -- > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --00000000000086367a058dcab9e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in th= e application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the se= ssion while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d= been to in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered= that I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went dow= n to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic = of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains =E2=80=9CDemoc= ratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...
I real= ized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late...

You have to go to Canada for the in= terview, so I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going through customs= they asked how long I was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This tri= ggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the bor= der folk to convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p

Anyway I make it to= the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9CHi! Before we start, = I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but it was South Korea.l=
The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, sh= oves a large folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves= my application.

Was wel= l worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where the lines = can be really long...

W<= /div>

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited= to Canada. You can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you re= ceive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are= free in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the sam= e time.=C2=A0 This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of t= heir size.

This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

=C2=A0Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s useful a= t the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.=C2=A0 If you enrolled at a non-air= port, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.=C2=A0 Just call the= m, they generally accept walk-up for this.=C2=A0 Also it gives you the TSA = Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.=C2= =A0 You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5= y vs $100/5y for GE.=C2=A0 You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>
> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.=C2=A0 I live a = little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian = border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working e= xperience.
>
> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada b= order in both directions.
>
> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US fr= om anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited = entry into Canada.=C2=A0 And even if you have GE, you need to activate it f= or land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via a= utomobile.
>
> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border l= ike I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.<= br> >
> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my exper= iences.
>
> --
>
> Ken Murchison
> Cyrus Development Team
> Fastmail US LLC
>
> <murch.vcf>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendee= s@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105atte= ndees

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=
--
I don't think the execution is relev= ant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like pu= tting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having ch= osen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0---maf
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<62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:26:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jared Mauch Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, Ken Murchison Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f3928a058dcd2b8f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:27:13 -0000 --000000000000f3928a058dcd2b8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - took all of 30 seconds. If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it woul= d have easily been 20 minutes. And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something... W On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari wrote: > I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while > sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while > simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to i= n the last > N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I=E2=80=99d b= een to an > ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down to Korea, and without thi= nking > chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the tru= ism that if the > name contains =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)... > I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... > > You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just > for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - > so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and s= o > I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=E2= =80=99t > doing anything sketchy :-p > > Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9C= Hi! > Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but i= t was > South Korea.l > The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder an= d > book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application. > > Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where > the lines can be really long... > > W > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch wrote= : > >> You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You c= an=E2=80=99t use >> the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is= a >> deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply an= d >> are approved with their parents at the same time. This means a whole >> family can get it for $100 regardless of their size. >> >> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada. >> >> Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great. >> >> Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-) >> >> Sent from my iCar >> >> > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison wrote= : >> > >> > >> >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the ai= rport >> security line to get you TSA Pre type experience >> >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, >> make an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they >> generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type >> experience if you have this instead. >> >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You >> must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs >> $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. >> > >> > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little >> north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian bord= er >> and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working >> experience. >> > >> > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada >> border in both directions. >> > >> > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US >> from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you >> expedited entry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to activ= ate >> it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the U= S >> via automobile. >> > >> > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border >> like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nex= us. >> > >> > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my >> experiences. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Ken Murchison >> > Cyrus Development Team >> > Fastmail US LLC >> > >> > >> > -- >> > 105attendees mailing list >> > 105attendees@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >> >> -- >> 105attendees mailing list >> 105attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >> > -- > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea > in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of > pants. > ---maf > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --000000000000f3928a058dcd2b8f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed throug= h the Nexus line - took all of 30 seconds.
If = I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it would h= ave easily been 20 minutes.

And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll = in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something...=C2= =A0

W


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
I applied for Nexus a fe= w years ago - I filled in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and try= ing to both listen to the session while simultaneously trying to remember a= ll the countries I=E2=80=99d been to in the last N years. I was scrolling d= own the list, and remembered that I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in S= eoul =E2=80=94 so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80= =9CKorea, Democratic Republic of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if th= e name contains =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...=
I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then = it was too late...

You h= ave to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just for thi= s - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - so I tol= d the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to= have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t do= ing anything sketchy :-p

Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say = =E2=80=9CHi! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North K= orea, but it was South Korea.l
The interviewer breat= hes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and book of regulation to= one side, smiles and approves my application.

<= /div>
Was well worth the bother - especially for places li= ke Vancouver, where the lines can be really long...
=
W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mau= ch <jared@puc= k.nether.net> wrote:
You are= right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You can=E2=80= =99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It rea= lly is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they ap= ply and are approved with their parents at the same time.=C2=A0 This means = a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.

This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

=C2=A0Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s useful a= t the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.=C2=A0 If you enrolled at a non-air= port, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.=C2=A0 Just call the= m, they generally accept walk-up for this.=C2=A0 Also it gives you the TSA = Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.=C2= =A0 You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5= y vs $100/5y for GE.=C2=A0 You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>
> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.=C2=A0 I live a = little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian = border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working e= xperience.
>
> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada b= order in both directions.
>
> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US fr= om anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited = entry into Canada.=C2=A0 And even if you have GE, you need to activate it f= or land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via a= utomobile.
>
> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border l= ike I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.<= br> >
> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my exper= iences.
>
> --
>
> Ken Murchison
> Cyrus Development Team
> Fastmail US LLC
>
> <murch.vcf>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendee= s@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105atte= ndees

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=
--
I don't think t= he execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first plac= e.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressin= g regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of p= ants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
--
I don't think the execution is relev= ant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like pu= tting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having ch= osen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0---maf
--000000000000f3928a058dcd2b8f-- From nobody Tue Jul 16 07:34:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA0012019C for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 07:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vcvs_BTvPuqb for <105attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aws.hosed.org (aws.hosed.org [50.16.104.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46867120086 for <105attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aws.hosed.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AA78001B; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:34:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aws.hosed.org Received: from aws.hosed.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aws.hosed.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClHBe13AMPHc; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.211] (corelight.static.monkeybrains.net [208.90.215.182]) by aws.hosed.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC8A18001A; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:34:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Banks Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FAAA0EF1-0167-44A3-B6E3-55F2B0C6F3C2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 07:34:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Jared Mauch , 105attendees@ietf.org, Ken Murchison To: Warren Kumari References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:34:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FAAA0EF1-0167-44A3-B6E3-55F2B0C6F3C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that = has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one = fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide = better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely = to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around. /S > On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: >=20 > ... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - = took all of 30 seconds. > If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it = would have easily been 20 minutes. >=20 > And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll = in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something...=20= >=20 > W >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari > wrote: > I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application = while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while = simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to = in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that = I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down = to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic = of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains = =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)... > I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... >=20 > You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto = just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was = staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of = warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to = convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p >=20 > Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9C= Hi! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, = but it was South Korea.l > The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder = and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application. >=20 > Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, = where the lines can be really long... >=20 > W >=20 > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch > wrote: > You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You = can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for = free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in = nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same = time. This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their = size.=20 >=20 > This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.=20 >=20 > Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.=20 >=20 > Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-) >=20 > Sent from my iCar >=20 > > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison > wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: > >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the = airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience > >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, = make an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they = generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type = experience if you have this instead. > >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You = must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs = $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. > >=20 > > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little = north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian = border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have = working experience. > >=20 > > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada = border in both directions. > >=20 > > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US = from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you = expedited entry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to = activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when = entering the US via automobile. > >=20 > > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border = like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and = Nexus. > >=20 > > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my = experiences. > >=20 > > --=20 > >=20 > > Ken Murchison > > Cyrus Development Team > > Fastmail US LLC > >=20 > > > > --=20 > > 105attendees mailing list > > 105attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees = >=20 > --=20 > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees = > --=20 > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad = idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing = regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of = pants. > ---maf > --=20 > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad = idea in the first place. > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing = regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of = pants. > ---maf > --=20 > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees --Apple-Mail=_FAAA0EF1-0167-44A3-B6E3-55F2B0C6F3C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 You = still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that has = a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one fell = swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide better = appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely to be = more booked, but not always - it pays to check around.

/S

On Jul = 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> = wrote:

... and I just arrived (NOC = team) and breezed through the Nexus line - took all of 30 = seconds.
If I=E2=80=99d gone = through the normal immigration and customs line it would have easily = been 20 minutes.

And, as someone pointed = out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll in the USA, at places = which have a US / Canada border... or something... 

W


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren = Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled = in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen = to the session while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries = I=E2=80=99d been to in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, = and remembered that I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94= so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, = Democratic Republic of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name = contains =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...
=
I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but = by then it was too late...

You have to go to Canada = for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going = through customs they asked how long I was staying - so I told the truth = - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a = long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing = anything sketchy :-p

Anyway I = make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9CHi! = Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but = it was South Korea.l
The interviewer = breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and book of = regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application.

Was well worth the bother - especially for places like = Vancouver, where the lines can be really long...

W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
You are right that GE = doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You can=E2=80=99t use the = NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a = deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply = and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This means a = whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.
=
This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

 Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s = useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type = experience
>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a = non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  = Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it = gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS = instead.  You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but = NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have = NEXUS.
>
> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a = little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the = Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I = have working experience.
>
> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the = US/Canada border in both directions.
>
> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US = from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you = expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to = activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when = entering the US via automobile.
>
> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada = border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE = and Nexus.
>
> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my = experiences.
>
> --
>
> Ken Murchison
> Cyrus Development Team
> Fastmail US LLC
>
> <murch.vcf>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
--
I don't think the execution is = relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later = expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and = that pair of pants.
   ---maf
--
I don't = think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the = first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your = pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular = rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
  =  ---maf
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:51:33 +0000 From: Mike Bishop To: Sarah Banks , Warren Kumari CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Ken Murchison , Jared Mauch Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada Thread-Index: AQHVO3HBR+BJb91Ki0imXxmDguRKe6bMkD2AgAByM4CAABrHgIAAMNcAgAACNICAAATFWw== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:51:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=mbishop@evequefou.be; x-originating-ip: [74.215.153.20] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 49676c88-8f06-4c67-cac6-08d709fd1871 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(7021145)(8989299)(4534185)(7022145)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(8990200)(7048125)(7024125)(7027125)(7023125)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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boundary="_000_ec4ffb22b21147ffab5c0ff9c2aa8a32evequefoube_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: evequefou.be X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 49676c88-8f06-4c67-cac6-08d709fd1871 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Jul 2019 14:51:33.3372 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 41eaf50b-882d-47eb-8c4c-0b5b76a9da8f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: mbishop@evequefou.be X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR22MB0374 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:51:40 -0000 --_000_ec4ffb22b21147ffab5c0ff9c2aa8a32evequefoube_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that, y= ou won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services" la= ne. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an appointment to add= your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a new interview. Sent from Nine ________________________________ From: Sarah Banks Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM To: Warren Kumari Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that has= a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one fell swoo= p. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide better appointm= ent times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely to be more booked, = but not always - it pays to check around. /S On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari > wrote: ... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - took= all of 30 seconds. If I=92d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it would have= easily been 20 minutes. And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll in t= he USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something... W On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari > wrote: I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while sit= ting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while simultaneou= sly trying to remember all the countries I=92d been to in the last N years.= I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I=92d been to an ICANN = meeting in Seoul =97 so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose = =93Korea, Democratic Republic of=94 (forgetting the truism that if the name= contains =93Democratic =93 it probably isn=92t)... I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just fo= r this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - so = I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I h= ad to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=92t doi= ng anything sketchy :-p Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =93Hi! Befo= re we start, I=92m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but it was South = Korea.l The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and = book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application. Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where the= lines can be really long... W On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch > wrote: You are right that GE doesn=92t get you expedited to Canada. You can=92t us= e the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is = a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and= are approved with their parents at the same time. This means a whole fami= ly can get it for $100 regardless of their size. This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada. Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great. Also it=92s on the website :-) Sent from my iCar > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison > wrote: > > >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=92s useful at the airport sec= urity line to get you TSA Pre type experience >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, make = an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they generall= y accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience i= f you have this instead. >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You must = get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y = for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. > > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little north= of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and h= ave traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience. > > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada bord= er in both directions. > > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from = anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited ent= ry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land = entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobil= e. > > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like= I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus. > > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experien= ces. > > -- > > Ken Murchison > Cyrus Development Team > Fastmail US LLC > > > -- > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees -- 105attendees mailing list 105attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in= the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in= the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf -- 105attendees mailing list 105attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees --_000_ec4ffb22b21147ffab5c0ff9c2aa8a32evequefoube_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do th= at, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special se= rvices" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an app= ointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a new interview.

Sent from Nine
From: Sarah Banks &l= t;sbanks@encrypted.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM
To: Warren Kumari
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canad= a

You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one tha= t has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one fell= swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide better app= ointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely to be more booked, but not always - it pays to c= heck around.

/S

On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:

... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed = through the Nexus line - took all of 30 seconds.
If I=92d gone through the normal immigration a= nd customs line it would have easily been 20 minutes.

And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspo= ke - you can also enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada bor= der... or something... 

W


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warre= n Kumari <warren@kumari.= net> wrote:
I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled= in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to = the session while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=92d= been to in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I=92d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul= =97 so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose =93Korea, Democrat= ic Republic of=94 (forgetting the truism that if the name contains =93Democ= ratic =93 it probably isn=92t)...
I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by = then it was too late...

You have to go to Canada for the interview, so= I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going through customs they asked= how long I was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all = sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn=92t doing anythin= g sketchy :-p

Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as= I walk in, I say =93Hi! Before we start, I=92m an idiot... I checked off N= orth Korea, but it was South Korea.l
The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relie= f, shoves a large folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and app= roves my application.

Was well worth the bother - especially for pla= ces like Vancouver, where the lines can be really long...

W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared= Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
You are right that GE doesn=92= t get you expedited to Canada. You can=92t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have= NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids= under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This means a w= hole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.

This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

 Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it=92s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wro= te:
>
>
>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=92s useful at the = airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-air= port, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call the= m, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA = Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. = ; You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y = vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>
> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a litt= le north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian bord= er and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working exper= ience.
>
> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada b= order in both directions.
>
> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US fr= om anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited = entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it f= or land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile.
>
> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border l= ike I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.<= br class=3D""> >
> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my exper= iences.
>
> --
>
> Ken Murchison
> Cyrus Development Team
> Fastmail US LLC
>
> <murch.vcf>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> = 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
105attendees mailing list
105at= tendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/1= 05attendees
--
I don't thi= nk the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first = place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<= br class=3D"">    ---maf
--
I don't think the execution is r= elevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr= et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<= br class=3D"">    ---maf
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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[98.110.251.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b8sm19721258wrr.43.2019.07.16.08.21.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2019 08:21:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <4CD5599E-9504-4645-ACA1-27C9C34F67C4@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1C38F389-E42F-4744-AA00-F01BE7626C29"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:21:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org> References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:21:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1C38F389-E42F-4744-AA00-F01BE7626C29 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for = NEXUS for the Montreal IETF. Bob > On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Mike Bishop = wrote: >=20 > Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do = that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special = services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an = appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a = new interview. >=20 > Sent from Nine > From: Sarah Banks > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM > To: Warren Kumari > Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch > Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada >=20 > You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one = that has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in = one fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide = better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely = to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around. >=20 > /S >=20 >> On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: >>=20 >> ... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line = - took all of 30 seconds. >> If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line = it would have easily been 20 minutes. >>=20 >> And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also = enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or = something... >>=20 >> W >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari = wrote: >> I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application = while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while = simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to = in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that = I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down = to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic = of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains = =E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)... >> I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... >>=20 >> You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto = just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was = staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of = warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to = convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p >>=20 >> Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say = =E2=80=9CHi! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off = North Korea, but it was South Korea.l >> The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large = folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my = application. >>=20 >> Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, = where the lines can be really long... >>=20 >> W >>=20 >> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch = wrote: >> You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. = You can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE = for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free = in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same = time. This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their = size. >>=20 >> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada. >>=20 >> Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great. >>=20 >> Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-) >>=20 >> Sent from my iCar >>=20 >> > On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison = wrote: >> > >> > >> >> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> >> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It=E2=80=99s useful at the = airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience >> >> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, = make an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they = generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type = experience if you have this instead. >> >> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You = must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs = $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. >> > >> > I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little = north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian = border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have = working experience. >> > >> > Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the = US/Canada border in both directions. >> > >> > Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US = from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you = expedited entry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to = activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when = entering the US via automobile. >> > >> > The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada = border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE = and Nexus. >> > >> > Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my = experiences. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Ken Murchison >> > Cyrus Development Team >> > Fastmail US LLC >> > >> > >> > -- >> > 105attendees mailing list >> > 105attendees@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >>=20 >> -- >> 105attendees mailing list >> 105attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >> -- >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad = idea in the first place. >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later = expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and = that pair of pants. >> ---maf >> -- >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad = idea in the first place. >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later = expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and = that pair of pants. >> ---maf >> -- >> 105attendees mailing list >> 105attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >=20 > -- > 105attendees mailing list > 105attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees --Apple-Mail=_1C38F389-E42F-4744-AA00-F01BE7626C29 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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([2601:152:4400:437c:70c3:b03a:1eee:5c8b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c40sm12972460qtd.14.2019.07.16.08.29.21 for <105attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2019 08:29:21 -0700 (PDT) To: 105attendees@ietf.org References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com> <4CD5599E-9504-4645-ACA1-27C9C34F67C4@gmail.com> From: Michael StJohns Message-ID: <2f58c946-9da5-1f63-0ae9-814e8d3a8614@nthpermutation.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:29:19 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4CD5599E-9504-4645-ACA1-27C9C34F67C4@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------20F09B05B97BB8832BDA1C98" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada X-BeenThere: 105attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list of all 105 attendees for official communication <105attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:29:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------20F09B05B97BB8832BDA1C98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/16/2019 11:21 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: > While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for NEXUS for the Montreal IETF. Next available appointment in Montreal is 7 August. Mike > > Bob > > >> On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Mike Bishop wrote: >> >> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a new interview. >> >> Sent from Nine >> From: Sarah Banks >> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM >> To: Warren Kumari >> Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch >> Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada >> >> You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around. >> >> /S >> >>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari wrote: >>> >>> ... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - took all of 30 seconds. >>> If I’d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it would have easily been 20 minutes. >>> >>> And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something... >>> >>> W >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari wrote: >>> I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I’d been to in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I’d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul — so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose “Korea, Democratic Republic of” (forgetting the truism that if the name contains “Democratic “ it probably isn’t)... >>> I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late... >>> >>> You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn’t doing anything sketchy :-p >>> >>> Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say “Hi! Before we start, I’m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but it was South Korea.l >>> The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application. >>> >>> Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where the lines can be really long... >>> >>> W >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch wrote: >>> You are right that GE doesn’t get you expedited to Canada. You can’t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same time. This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size. >>> >>> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada. >>> >>> Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great. >>> >>> Also it’s on the website :-) >>> >>> Sent from my iCar >>> >>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >>>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card. It’s useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience >>>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card. If you enrolled at a non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file. Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this. Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead. >>>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead. You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE. You also get GE if you have NEXUS. >>>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct. I live a little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience. >>>> >>>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada border in both directions. >>>> >>>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry into Canada. And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile. >>>> >>>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus. >>>> >>>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experiences. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Ken Murchison >>>> Cyrus Development Team >>>> Fastmail US LLC >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> 105attendees mailing list >>>> 105attendees@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >>> -- >>> 105attendees mailing list >>> 105attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >>> -- >>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. >>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. >>> ---maf >>> -- >>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. >>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. >>> ---maf >>> -- >>> 105attendees mailing list >>> 105attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees >> -- >> 105attendees mailing list >> 105attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees > --------------20F09B05B97BB8832BDA1C98 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 7/16/2019 11:21 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.

Next available appointment in Montreal is 7 August.

Mike



Bob



On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> wrote:

Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a new interview.

Sent from Nine
From: Sarah Banks <sbanks@encrypted.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM
To: Warren Kumari
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada

You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around.

/S


On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:

... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - took all of 30 seconds.
If I’d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it would have easily been 20 minutes.

And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something...

W


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I’d been to in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that I’d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul — so I went down to Korea, and without thinking chose “Korea, Democratic Republic of” (forgetting the truism that if the name contains “Democratic “ it probably isn’t)...
I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late...

You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I wasn’t doing anything sketchy :-p

Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say “Hi! Before we start, I’m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, but it was South Korea.l
The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application.

Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where the lines can be really long...

W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
You are right that GE doesn’t get you expedited to Canada. You can’t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply  and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.

This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

 Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it’s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar


On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wrote:



On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It’s useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.

I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience.

Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada border in both directions.

Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile.

The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.

Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experiences.

--

Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC

<murch.vcf>
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
   ---maf
--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
   ---maf
--
105attendees mailing list
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From: Warren Kumari 
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:01:47 -0400
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To: Bob Hinden 
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On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:22 AM Bob Hinden  wrote:
>
> While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.

... yes, but we had an almost identical discussion before IETF102 --
July 14-20, 2018,  Montreal, Quebec, CA.

IETF 107 is, once again, in Canada:
March 21-27, 2020
Host: TBD
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

W

>
> Bob
>
[SNIP]


-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf


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	charset=utf-8

Doesn't your app have to be approved to the point where you're ready to =
schedule an appt first tho? Or has that changed?

/S

> On Jul 16, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Michael StJohns  =
wrote:
>=20
> On 7/16/2019 11:21 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
>> While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for =
NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.
> Next available appointment in Montreal is 7 August.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Mike Bishop  =
 wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do =
that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special =
services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an =
appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a =
new interview.
>>>=20
>>> Sent from Nine
>>> From: Sarah Banks  =

>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM
>>> To: Warren Kumari
>>> Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org ; Ken =
Murchison; Jared Mauch
>>> Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for =
Canada
>>>=20
>>> You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one =
that has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in =
one fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide =
better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely =
to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around.
>>>=20
>>> /S
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari  =
 wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> .... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus =
line - took all of 30 seconds.
>>>> If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line =
it would have easily been 20 minutes.
>>>>=20
>>>> And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also =
enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or =
something...
>>>>=20
>>>> W
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari  =
 wrote:
>>>> I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application =
while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while =
simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to =
in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that =
I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down =
to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic =
of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains =
=E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...
>>>> I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too =
late...
>>>>=20
>>>> You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto =
just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was =
staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of =
warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to =
convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p
>>>>=20
>>>> Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =
=E2=80=9CHi! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off =
North Korea, but it was South Korea.l
>>>> The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large =
folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my =
application.
>>>>=20
>>>> Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, =
where the lines can be really long...
>>>>=20
>>>> W
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch  =
 wrote:
>>>> You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. =
You can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE =
for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free =
in nexus if they apply  and are approved with their parents at the same =
time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their =
size.
>>>>=20
>>>> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
>>>>=20
>>>>  Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
>>>>=20
>>>> Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my iCar
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison  =
 wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>>>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s useful at =
the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>>>>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a =
non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just =
call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you =
the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>>>>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  =
You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y =
vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>>>>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a =
little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the =
Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I =
have working experience.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the =
US/Canada border in both directions.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the =
US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you =
expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to =
activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when =
entering the US via automobile.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada =
border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE =
and Nexus.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my =
experiences.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> --
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Ken Murchison
>>>>> Cyrus Development Team
>>>>> Fastmail US LLC
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees =

>>>> --
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees =

>>>> --
>>>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad =
idea in the first place.
>>>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later =
expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and =
that pair of pants.
>>>>    ---maf
>>>> --
>>>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad =
idea in the first place.
>>>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later =
expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and =
that pair of pants.
>>>>    ---maf
>>>> --
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees =

>>> --
>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees =

>>=20
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


--Apple-Mail=_1EECAA9E-851D-4BA5-B198-27F7226065F5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

Doesn't your app have to be approved to the point where =
you're ready to schedule an appt first tho? Or has that changed?

/S

On Jul =
16, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com> wrote:


 =20
    
 =20
  

    
On 7/16/2019 11:21 AM, Bob Hinden
      wrote:

    

    

      
While this is all =
interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for NEXUS for the =
Montreal IETF.

    
Next available appointment in Montreal is =
7 August.
Mike


    

    

      
Bob




      

        
On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 =
AM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> =
wrote:

Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do =
that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special =
services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an =
appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a =
new interview.

Sent from Nine
From: Sarah Banks <sbanks@encrypted.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM
To: Warren Kumari
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Ken =
Murchison; Jared Mauch
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada

You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one that =
has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in one =
fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide =
better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely =
to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around.

/S



        

          
On Jul 16, 2019, at =
7:26 AM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:

.... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus line - =
took all of 30 seconds.
If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs line it =
would have easily been 20 minutes.

And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also enroll =
in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or something...

W


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application while =
sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while =
simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to =
in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that =
I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down =
to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic =
of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains =
=E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...
I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too late...

You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to Toronto just =
for this - when going through customs they asked how long I was staying =
- so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of warnings, =
and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to convince them I =
wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p

Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =E2=80=9CH=
i! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off North Korea, =
but it was South Korea.l
The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large folder =
and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my application.

Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, where =
the lines can be really long...

W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> =
wrote:
You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You =
can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for =
free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in =
nexus if they apply  and are approved with their parents at the same =
time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their =
size.

This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.

 Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.

Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)

Sent from my iCar



          

            
On Jul 15, 2019, at =
11:07 PM, Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> wrote:




            

              
On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, =
Jared Mauch wrote:
1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s useful at the =
airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, make =
an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they =
generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type =
experience if you have this instead.
3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You must =
get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs =
$100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.


            

            
I don't believe that =
point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little north of Buffalo, NY =
about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled =
more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience.

Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada =
border in both directions.

Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from =
anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited =
entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for =
land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via =
automobile.

The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border =
like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and =
Nexus.

Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my =
experiences.

--

Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC

<murch.vcf>
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


          

          
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea =
in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing =
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of =
pants.
   ---maf
--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea =
in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing =
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of =
pants.
   ---maf
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


        

        
--
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To: Jared Mauch 
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From: Ken Murchison 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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So you're saying that if you fly from London to New York, you can use 
the Global Entry kiosks even if you only have Nexus?


On 7/16/19 5:55 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> You are right that GE doesn’t get you expedited to Canada. You can’t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.
>
> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
>
>   Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
>
> Also it’s on the website :-)
>
> Sent from my iCar
>
>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It’s useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience.
>>
>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada border in both directions.
>>
>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile.
>>
>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.
>>
>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experiences.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Ken Murchison
>> Cyrus Development Team
>> Fastmail US LLC
>>
>> 
>> -- 
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC


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From nobody Tue Jul 16 09:12:22 2019
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From: Warren Kumari 
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:11:35 -0400
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To: Ken Murchison 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Yup.

Nexus =3D=3D USA and Canada.
Global Entry =3D=3D USA.

Nexus is a superset, and 'tis cheaper too...

W

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:05 PM Ken Murchison  wrote:
>
> So you're saying that if you fly from London to New York, you can use
> the Global Entry kiosks even if you only have Nexus?
>
>
> On 7/16/19 5:55 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> > You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. You =
can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for fre=
e. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus i=
f they apply and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This me=
ans a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.
> >
> > This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
> >
> >   Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
> >
> > Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)
> >
> > Sent from my iCar
> >
> >> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison  wrote=
:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> >>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s useful at the ai=
rport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
> >>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, ma=
ke an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they gener=
ally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experienc=
e if you have this instead.
> >>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You mu=
st get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/=
5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
> >> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little no=
rth of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border an=
d have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience=
.
> >>
> >> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada b=
order in both directions.
> >>
> >> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US fr=
om anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited =
entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for la=
nd entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automo=
bile.
> >>
> >> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border l=
ike I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.
> >>
> >> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my exper=
iences.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Ken Murchison
> >> Cyrus Development Team
> >> Fastmail US LLC
> >>
> >> 
> >> --
> >> 105attendees mailing list
> >> 105attendees@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
> --
> Ken Murchison
> Cyrus Development Team
> Fastmail US LLC
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf


From nobody Tue Jul 16 09:13:39 2019
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From: Jared Mauch 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Since there is an upcoming IETF in Vancouver as well, it=E2=80=99s =
likely worthwhile to investigate it if you are a professional attendee =
:-)

- Jared

> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:11 PM, Warren Kumari  wrote:
>=20
> Yup.
>=20
> Nexus =3D=3D USA and Canada.
> Global Entry =3D=3D USA.
>=20
> Nexus is a superset, and 'tis cheaper too...
>=20
> W
>=20
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:05 PM Ken Murchison  =
wrote:
>>=20
>> So you're saying that if you fly from London to New York, you can use
>> the Global Entry kiosks even if you only have Nexus?
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 7/16/19 5:55 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>> You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. =
You can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE =
for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free =
in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same =
time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their =
size.
>>>=20
>>> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
>>>=20
>>>  Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
>>>=20
>>> Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iCar
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison  =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s useful at the =
airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>>>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, =
make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they =
generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type =
experience if you have this instead.
>>>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You =
must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs =
$100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>>>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little =
north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian =
border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have =
working experience.
>>>>=20
>>>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the =
US/Canada border in both directions.
>>>>=20
>>>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US =
from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you =
expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to =
activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when =
entering the US via automobile.
>>>>=20
>>>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada =
border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE =
and Nexus.
>>>>=20
>>>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my =
experiences.
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>>=20
>>>> Ken Murchison
>>>> Cyrus Development Team
>>>> Fastmail US LLC
>>>>=20
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>=20
>> --
>> Ken Murchison
>> Cyrus Development Team
>> Fastmail US LLC
>>=20
>> --
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
> idea in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
> of pants.
>   ---maf


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To: Warren Kumari 
Cc: Jared Mauch , 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Hmm.  That's not clear from the website but good to know.  I had Global 
Entry first because I thought I needed it for overseas travel and then 
added Nexus for $40 just prior to Montreal last July.

I wonder if Nexus also works in countries that recognize Global Entry, 
like Australia.


On 7/16/19 12:11 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:
> Yup.
>
> Nexus == USA and Canada.
> Global Entry == USA.
>
> Nexus is a superset, and 'tis cheaper too...
>
> W
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:05 PM Ken Murchison  wrote:
>> So you're saying that if you fly from London to New York, you can use
>> the Global Entry kiosks even if you only have Nexus?
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/19 5:55 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>> You are right that GE doesn’t get you expedited to Canada. You can’t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free in nexus if they apply and are approved with their parents at the same time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their size.
>>>
>>> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
>>>
>>>    Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
>>>
>>> Also it’s on the website :-)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iCar
>>>
>>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It’s useful at the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>>>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>>>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>>>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I have working experience.
>>>>
>>>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the US/Canada border in both directions.
>>>>
>>>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when entering the US via automobile.
>>>>
>>>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE and Nexus.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my experiences.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Ken Murchison
>>>> Cyrus Development Team
>>>> Fastmail US LLC
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>> --
>> Ken Murchison
>> Cyrus Development Team
>> Fastmail US LLC
>>
>> --
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
>
-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC


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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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You are correct. =20

My advice is if you have a physical NEXUS card or GE card _bring it with =
you_.  It=E2=80=99s normally not useful for much, but when flying back =
from Canada if you have your GE or NEXUS card you can get in the =
expedited security line.  Find your card if you have it.

If you don=E2=80=99t have NEXUS or GE and qualify, consider getting it.  =
NEXUS is cheaper than GE (not by much, but maybe you don=E2=80=99t =
care?) and works well if you have a family and is a superset as =
mentioned previously.  If you will be in Vancouver or ever go to Canada =
again in the next 5 years, it=E2=80=99s useful. =20

Hope this helps.

- Jared

> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Sarah Banks  =
wrote:
>=20
> Doesn't your app have to be approved to the point where you're ready =
to schedule an appt first tho? Or has that changed?
>=20
> /S
>=20
>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Michael StJohns  =
wrote:
>>=20
>> On 7/16/2019 11:21 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
>>> While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange =
for NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.
>> Next available appointment in Montreal is 7 August.
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Bob
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Mike Bishop 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do =
that, you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special =
services" lane. You can drop by any Canadian NEXUS office without an =
appointment to add your irises if you so desire; this doesn't entail a =
new interview.
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from Nine
>>>> From: Sarah Banks=20
>>>> 
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:35 AM
>>>> To: Warren Kumari
>>>> Cc:=20
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>> ; Ken Murchison; Jared Mauch
>>>> Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for =
Canada
>>>>=20
>>>> You still need to do the interview at a Canadian airport. Pick one =
that has a US entry point as well; that way you do both interviews in =
one fell swoop. Generally, I've found going to smaller cities to provide =
better appointment times; Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, they're likely =
to be more booked, but not always - it pays to check around.
>>>>=20
>>>> /S
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Warren Kumari 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ..... and I just arrived (NOC team) and breezed through the Nexus =
line - took all of 30 seconds.
>>>>> If I=E2=80=99d gone through the normal immigration and customs =
line it would have easily been 20 minutes.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> And, as someone pointed out off-list, I misspoke - you can also =
enroll in the USA, at places which have a US / Canada border... or =
something...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> W
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:31 AM Warren Kumari=20
>>>>> 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> I applied for Nexus a few years ago - I filled in the application =
while sitting in a NANOG, and trying to both listen to the session while =
simultaneously trying to remember all the countries I=E2=80=99d been to =
in the last N years. I was scrolling down the list, and remembered that =
I=E2=80=99d been to an ICANN meeting in Seoul =E2=80=94 so I went down =
to Korea, and without thinking chose =E2=80=9CKorea, Democratic Republic =
of=E2=80=9D (forgetting the truism that if the name contains =
=E2=80=9CDemocratic =E2=80=9C it probably isn=E2=80=99t)...
>>>>> I realized my mistake as I hit Submit, but by then it was too =
late...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> You have to go to Canada for the interview, so I flew up to =
Toronto just for this - when going through customs they asked how long I =
was staying - so I told the truth - 3hours. This triggered all sorts of =
warnings, and so I had to have a long chat with the border folk to =
convince them I wasn=E2=80=99t doing anything sketchy :-p
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Anyway I make it to the interview room, and as I walk in, I say =
=E2=80=9CHi! Before we start, I=E2=80=99m an idiot... I checked off =
North Korea, but it was South Korea.l
>>>>> The interviewer breathes a large sigh of relief, shoves a large =
folder and book of regulation to one side, smiles and approves my =
application.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Was well worth the bother - especially for places like Vancouver, =
where the lines can be really long...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> W
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:56 AM Jared Mauch=20
>>>>> 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> You are right that GE doesn=E2=80=99t get you expedited to Canada. =
You can=E2=80=99t use the NEXUS lanes. If you have NEXUS you receive GE =
for free. It really is a deal. Plus as mentioned kids under 18 are free =
in nexus if they apply  and are approved with their parents at the same =
time.  This means a whole family can get it for $100 regardless of their =
size.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> This works great when we travel to/from or via Canada.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>  Citation: i did this with my wife and 4 kids. Works great.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also it=E2=80=99s on the website :-)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sent from my iCar
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ken Murchison 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 7/15/19 8:59 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>>>>>> 1) Bring along your Global Entry card.  It=E2=80=99s useful at =
the airport security line to get you TSA Pre type experience
>>>>>>> 2) Bring along your Nexus card.  If you enrolled at a =
non-airport, make an appointment to get your eye scan on file.  Just =
call them, they generally accept walk-up for this.  Also it gives you =
the TSA Pre type experience if you have this instead.
>>>>>>> 3) If you qualify for a Global Entry, consider NEXUS instead.  =
You must get your interview at the US/Canada border, but NEXUS is $50/5y =
vs $100/5y for GE.  You also get GE if you have NEXUS.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I don't believe that point 3) is entirely correct.  I live a =
little north of Buffalo, NY about 10mi from Niagara Falls and the =
Canadian border and have traveled more into Canada than to Ohio, so I =
have working experience.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Nexus gets you TSA pre-check and expedited crossing of the =
US/Canada border in both directions.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Global Entry gets you TSA pre-check and expedited entry into the =
US from anywhere, including Canada, but Global entry does NOT get you =
expedited entry into Canada.  And even if you have GE, you need to =
activate it for land entry online in order to use Nexus lanes when =
entering the US via automobile.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The bottom line is that if you live close to to the US/Canada =
border like I do, and also travel to Europe or beyond, you want both GE =
and Nexus.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Again, I may be wrong but this is what I have learned through my =
experiences.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Ken Murchison
>>>>>> Cyrus Development Team
>>>>>> Fastmail US LLC
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>>>> --
>>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>>>>=20
>>>>> --
>>>>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a =
bad idea in the first place.
>>>>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later =
expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and =
that pair of pants.
>>>>>    ---maf
>>>>> --
>>>>> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a =
bad idea in the first place.
>>>>> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later =
expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and =
that pair of pants.
>>>>>    ---maf
>>>>> --
>>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>>> --
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>=20
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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From: Evan Hunt 
To: Mike Bishop 
Cc: Sarah Banks , Warren Kumari , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Ken Murchison , Jared Mauch 
Message-ID: <20190716165945.GB31261@isc.org>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that,
> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services"
> lane.

I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on
site.

-- 
Evan Hunt -- each@isc.org
Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.


From nobody Tue Jul 16 10:36:56 2019
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To: Evan Hunt 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Evan Hunt  wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do =
that,
>> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special =
services"
>> lane.
>=20
> I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
> Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on
> site.

I had mine done at the Windsor, ON airport.  It was interesting as the =
CBSA people at the US-CA border didn=E2=80=99t know about that (airline) =
side of the NEXUS program.  Last time I arrived in Canada I did not have =
to speak to a single person once I got off the plane until I was in a =
taxi.  Assuming you qualify, this is something to ease your travel =
experience and time in the airport.  Makes my life easier so I want to =
share it with you. =20

It also helps when I=E2=80=99m traveling with the family at the =
Buffalo/Niagra area =E2=80=94 there=E2=80=99s a NEXUS lane on the far =
right that is often empty when entering Canada while the other lanes are =
very full.

- Jared=


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To: Jared Mauch , Evan Hunt 
Cc: Mike Bishop , Sarah Banks , Warren Kumari , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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From: Ken Murchison 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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On 7/16/19 1:36 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>
>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Evan Hunt  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
>>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that,
>>> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services"
>>> lane.
>> I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
>> Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on
>> site.
> I had mine done at the Windsor, ON airport.  It was interesting as the CBSA people at the US-CA border didn’t know about that (airline) side of the NEXUS program.  Last time I arrived in Canada I did not have to speak to a single person once I got off the plane until I was in a taxi.  Assuming you qualify, this is something to ease your travel experience and time in the airport.  Makes my life easier so I want to share it with you.
>
> It also helps when I’m traveling with the family at the Buffalo/Niagra area — there’s a NEXUS lane on the far right that is often empty when entering Canada while the other lanes are very full.


There is a Nexus only-entry point to/from Niagara at the Whirlpool 
bridge (between Rainbow and Lewiston/Queenston).  Its a little off the 
beaten path compared to the other bridges, but its worth it during peak 
travel times.


-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC


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From: John Scudder 
To: Ken Murchison 
CC: Warren Kumari , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Jared Mauch 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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From nobody Tue Jul 16 11:06:48 2019
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 18:06:44 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jeff Osborn 
To: Evan Hunt 
Cc: Mike Bishop , 105attendees@ietf.org,  Sarah Banks , Warren Kumari ,  Ken Murchison , Jared Mauch 
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Thread-Topic: Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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The best travel tip for many Americans living in the northeast, especially New England, would be to drive to Montreal.  Even better, take the Morses Line Border Crossing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morses_Line_Border_Crossing) along with the other 80 cars a DAY.  Sometimes, you don't even have to come to a full stop; they just wave you through.

It's a 4 1/2 hour drive from around Boston (7 if you avoid all highways) which beats the heck out of flying in cost and time.  And it's really pretty.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Evan Hunt" 
> To: "Mike Bishop" 
> Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, "Sarah Banks" , "Warren Kumari" , "Ken Murchison"
> , "Jared Mauch" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:59:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada

> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do that,
>> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special services"
>> lane.
> 
> I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
> Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on
> site.
> 
> --
> Evan Hunt -- each@isc.org
> Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.
> 
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
Jeff Osborn
President
Internet Systems Consortium


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From: Matt Stock 
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:41:32 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Jeff Osborn 
Cc: Evan Hunt , 105attendees@ietf.org,  Jared Mauch , Ken Murchison ,  Mike Bishop , Sarah Banks ,  Warren Kumari 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000580c6d058dd0ba51"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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That's what I'm doing - driving from Buffalo via the scenic route.

BTW, thanks all for the NEXUS/Global Entry stuff.  About 6 years back I got
NEXUS for all the reasons, but when I went to renew it appeared that GE was
no longer a feature so I changed.  Maybe I'll go back to NEXUS at the next
renewal.

See you all in Montreal.

Matt


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 2:06 PM Jeff Osborn  wrote:

> The best travel tip for many Americans living in the northeast, especially
> New England, would be to drive to Montreal.  Even better, take the Morses
> Line Border Crossing (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morses_Line_Border_Crossing) along with the
> other 80 cars a DAY.  Sometimes, you don't even have to come to a full
> stop; they just wave you through.
>
> It's a 4 1/2 hour drive from around Boston (7 if you avoid all highways)
> which beats the heck out of flying in cost and time.  And it's really
> pretty.
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Evan Hunt" 
> > To: "Mike Bishop" 
> > Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, "Sarah Banks" ,
> "Warren Kumari" , "Ken Murchison"
> > , "Jared Mauch" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:59:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
>
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:
> >> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you do
> that,
> >> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "special
> services"
> >> lane.
> >
> > I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
> > Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on
> > site.
> >
> > --
> > Evan Hunt -- each@isc.org
> > Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.
> >
> > --
> > 105attendees mailing list
> > 105attendees@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
> --
> Jeff Osborn
> President
> Internet Systems Consortium
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>


-- 
[image: Limelight Networks] 
Matt Stock* Principal Architect*
EXPERIENCE FIRST.
+1 716 949 0332 <+1+716+949+0332>
www.limelight.com
[image: Facebook] [image:
LinkedIn] [image:
Twitter] 

--000000000000580c6d058dd0ba51
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That's what I'm doing - driving from Buffalo via t=
he scenic=C2=A0route.

BTW, thanks all for the NEXUS/Glob=
al Entry stuff.=C2=A0 About 6 years back I got NEXUS for all the reasons, b=
ut when I went to renew it appeared that GE was no longer a feature so I ch=
anged.=C2=A0 Maybe I'll go back to NEXUS at the next renewal.

See you all in Montreal.

Matt


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 2:06 PM Jeff Osborn <jsosborn@isc.org> wrote:
The best travel tip for many Ameri=
cans living in the northeast, especially New England, would be to drive to =
Montreal.=C2=A0 Even better, take the Morses Line Border Crossing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morses_Line_Border_C=
rossing) along with the other 80 cars a DAY.=C2=A0 Sometimes, you don&#=
39;t even have to come to a full stop; they just wave you through.



It's a 4 1/2 hour drive from around Boston (7 if you avoid all highways=
) which beats the heck out of flying in cost and time.=C2=A0 And it's r=
eally pretty.



Jeff



----- Original Message -----

> From: "Evan Hunt" <each@isc.org>

> To: "Mike Bishop" <mbishop@evequefou.be>

> Cc: 105atte=
ndees@ietf.org, "Sarah Banks" <sbanks@encrypted.net>, "Warren K=
umari" <warr=
en@kumari.net>, "Ken Murchison"

> <murch@fast=
mail.com>, "Jared Mauch" <jared@puck.nether.net>

> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:59:45 PM

> Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada<=
br>


> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 02:51:33PM +0000, Mike Bishop wrote:

>> Kind of. You can get approved for NEXUS at a US location. If you d=
o that,

>> you won't have irises on file and will have to use the "s=
pecial services"

>> lane.

> 

> I think this may be outdated - I did my NEXUS interviews in Blaine,
> Washington about six months ago, and they did have the iris scanner on=


> site.

> 

> --

> Evan Hunt -- each@is=
c.org

> Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.

> 

> --

> 105attendees mailing list

> 105attendee=
s@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105atte=
ndees



-- 

Jeff Osborn

President

Internet Systems Consortium



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





-- 
3D"Limelight
Matt Stock=C2=A0Principal Architect
EXPERIENCE FIRST.
+1 716 9=
49 0332
www.limelight.com
3D"Facebo=3D"LinkedIn"3D"Twitter"

=



--000000000000580c6d058dd0ba51--


From nobody Tue Jul 16 12:53:49 2019
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Ken Murchison writes:
> Hmm.=A0 That's not clear from the website but good to know.=A0 I had =
Global=20
> Entry first because I thought I needed it for overseas travel and the=
n=20
> added Nexus for $40 just prior to Montreal last July.

One potential gotcha bit me (and probably only ever me) but will
perhaps serve as a word of warning to anyone who has Global Entry then
gets NEXUS.

I had this same realization about getting NEXUS after I'd already
interviewed for Global Entry, in a very short time period, maybe
around a month or so.  When I got approved for the programs I ended up
activating my Nexus card before my GE, and therein was the problem.

While the Canadian system was fine because they don't have anything to
do with the Global Entry program, the US system can only have one
active at a time and so my GE activation basically cancelled out my
NEXUS membership from the US side, meaning that though I had no
problem using NEXUS to get into Canada, I couldn't use it to get back
into the US and ended up being diverted to the hassle of secondary
screening because of my NEXUS card shows to the US people like it's
revoked or something.  It's basically going to be like this until I am
up for renewal and can just put everything under NEXUS.

It caused quite a deal of confusion for both US and Canadian border
patrol until we figured out what happened.  Nothing quite like having
the security forces of a couple of different nations wondering what's
going on with you.  One of the things they emphasized very clearly
when it was all sorted out was the Matroyshka-like nature of the
programs, NEXUS > Global Entry > TSA Pre-Check.  For travellers
even semi-regularly going to Canada, just get NEXUS.



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Warren,

> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:01 PM, Warren Kumari  wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:22 AM Bob Hinden  =
wrote:
>>=20
>> While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange for =
NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.
>=20
> ... yes, but we had an almost identical discussion before IETF102 --
> July 14-20, 2018,  Montreal, Quebec, CA.

I suspect we will have again prior to IETF 107 too :-(

Bob

>=20
> IETF 107 is, once again, in Canada:
> March 21-27, 2020
> Host: TBD
> Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
>=20
> W
>=20
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
> [SNIP]
>=20
>=20
> --
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
> idea in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
> of pants.
>   ---maf


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From nobody Wed Jul 17 06:14:21 2019
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Subject: [105attendees] IETF 105 Preview
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There is a new blog post up that discusses some of what is to come at =
IETF 105: https://www.ietf.org/blog/ietf105-preview/

Alissa Cooper
IETF Chair=


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From: Jonathan Hoyland 
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:34:39 +0100
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To: Sandra Murphy 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] looking for a social ticket
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I'm also looking for a social ticket if anyone has one going spare.

Regards,

Jonathan

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 21:48 Sandra Murphy,  wrote:

> I think I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message thread=
.
>
> I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.
>
> If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.
>
> =E2=80=94Sandy
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--0000000000009d5a9a058de237f8
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I'm also looking for a social ticket if anyone has on=
e going spare.

Regards,
<=
div dir=3D"auto">
Jonathan

On Fri, 12 Jul 2=
019, 21:48 Sandra Murphy, <sandy@ti=
slabs.com> wrote:
I think =
I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message thread.



I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.



If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.



=E2=80=94Sandy





-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/1=
05attendees




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From nobody Wed Jul 17 08:51:36 2019
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The report from myself and the IESG in advance of IETF 105 is available =
here: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ietf-sessa-i=
etf-chair-and-iesg-report-ietf-105-00.pdf =
. Embedded links to other =
reports will be updated as they become available.

Alissa Cooper
IETF Chair=

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The report from myself and the IESG in advance of IETF 105 is available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-ietf-sessa-ietf-chair-and-iesg-report-ietf-105-00.pdf. Embedded links to other reports will be updated as they become available.

Alissa Cooper
IETF Chair

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From nobody Thu Jul 18 00:37:32 2019
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From: Nabil Benamar 
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:37:15 +0100
Message-ID: 
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
Cc: Kevin Chege , Dawit Bekele 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000748857058defae98"
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Subject: [105attendees] Africa Update session@IETF105
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--000000000000748857058defae98
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Dear All,



There are various activities taking place in Africa, to raise the awareness
of the IETF, encourage more engineers/academics to participate in the IETF,
and to build communities of practice in open standards development. There
will be an open session at the IETF 105 Meeting in Montreal, Canada on
Tuesday the 23rd of July from 12:10 to 13:20 where updates will be provided
on the activities being carried out in the region, and to discuss lessons
learned and opportunities for improvement and scaling of these activities.

If you are interested in learning about the activities and how one can
contribute, kindly register for the event. Engineers and academics from
Africa are highly encouraged to attend.

NOTE: Pre-registration is required for this event to facilitate adequate
seating and refreshment arrangements.

Below is the registration URL.

https://internetsociety.wufoo.com/forms/s1misahm0hkafmn/


Best regards
Nabil Benamar
-------------------
=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88

--000000000000748857058defae98
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Dear All,



There are various activities takin=
g place in Africa, to raise the awareness of the IETF, encourage more engin=
eers/academics to participate in the IETF, and to build communities of prac=
tice in open standards development. There will be an open session at the IE=
TF 105 Meeting in Montreal, Canada on Tuesday the 23rd of July from 12:10 t=
o 13:20 where updates will be provided on the activities being carried out =
in the region, and to discuss lessons learned and opportunities for improve=
ment and scaling of these activities. 

If you are interested in lear=
ning about the activities and how one can contribute, kindly register for t=
he event. Engineers and academics from Africa are highly encouraged to atte=
nd.

NOTE: Pre-registration is required for this event to facilitate =
adequate seating and refreshment arrangements.

Below is the registra=
tion URL.

https://internetsociety.wufoo.com/forms/s1misahm0hkafmn/


Best regards
Nabil Benamar
-----------=
--------
=
=D9=86=D8=A8=D9=8A=D9=84 =D8=A8=D9=86=D8=B9=D9=85=D8=B1=D9=88




<=
/div>


--000000000000748857058defae98--


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From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:48:48 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Sandra Murphy 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] looking for a social ticket
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Hi Sandra,

I have one ticket that I do not need anymore.
Let me know if you still looking for one.

Regards,
 Rifaat

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:48 PM Sandra Murphy  wrote:

> I think I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message thread=
.
>
> I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.
>
> If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.
>
> =E2=80=94Sandy
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

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Hi Sandra,

I have on=
e ticket that I do not need anymore.
L=
et me know if you still looking for one.

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:48 PM Sandra Mu=
rphy <sandy@tislabs.com> wro=
te:
I think I=E2=
=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message thread.



I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.



If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.



=E2=80=94Sandy





-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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From: Wes Hardaker 
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:34:15 -0700
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Subject: [105attendees] A few more IETF guides still needed (IoT anyone?)
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We could use a few more guides for IETF-105 if you have the time to help
out new attendees sort their way through our maze of twisty
pass^H^H^H^H culture.  In particular, if anyone has knowledge of IoT,
netconf/netmod, ops, rtg, tsv/int, art...  We could use some additional
help in that area.  (Yes: I know I nearly listed everything there)

Repeating my previous announcement for reference:


Thank you bunch to everyone that has contributed to the IETF Guides
program in the past.  We'd love your help again (or your help for the
first time!) for IETF 105.  If you're coming to Montreal and willing to
have a few conversations with a new attendee, please consider
volunteering to the IETF Guides program.  We need experienced guides
that have attended 5 or more IETF conferences.  If you're able to
participate, please head to our Guides page to sign up:

  https://guides.ietf.org/

On it you'll find further information about the program, and a link to
the IETF Guides sign-up form: https://guides.ietf.org/guides/become_guide .

*Note:* if you participated in IETF 104 and elected to save your profile
information for future IETFs, you must still log in to update your
arrival date to indicate you're coming to Montreal so we can pair you
with a newcommer for IETF 105.

Thanks again for your support of this well-appreciated program, which is
only successful because of the Guides that make it happen.

-- 
Wes Hardaker
USC/ISI


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From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
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Subject: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Hi,

I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form YUL =
(montreal airport) already.

Their web site claims, that


"Getting to the airport

Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advance, it's essential to=
 plan the best way to get to the airport."



SRSLY?

Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min before=
 departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 mio. PAX/yr c=
an hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s



Have the processes really become this inefficient?



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a pity. (F=
or a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on Fri, while m=
y trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)



Best regards,

   Richard



--_000_SN4PR0601MB372863B06B9468677C0E583586CB0SN4PR0601MB3728_
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Hi,


 


I hope here is someone who has =
some first hand experience leaving form YUL (montreal airport) already.


 


Their web site claims, that


 



“Getting to the airport



Since you have to arrive at least three hours in adv=
ance, it’s essential to plan the best way to get
 to the airport.”



 



SRSLY?



Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min be=
fore boarding (45 min before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfiel=
d with only 27 mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete
 with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s



 



Have the processes really become this inefficie=
nt?



 



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Frida=
y, which would be a pity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetin=
gs scheduled on Fri, while my trip was planned
 much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)


 



Best regards,



   Richard



 






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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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If you are traveling to or via the US you will clear US customs in Canada. T=
his can add time depending on your travel status. Add additional time for th=
at.=20

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
> =20
> I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form YUL=
 (montreal airport) already.
> =20
> Their web site claims, that
> =20
> =E2=80=9CGetting to the airport
>=20
> Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advance, it=E2=80=99s ess=
ential to plan the best way to get to the airport.=E2=80=9D
>=20
> =20
>=20
> SRSLY?
>=20
> Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min befor=
e departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 mio. PAX/yr c=
an hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Have the processes really become this inefficient?
>=20
> =20
>=20
> If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a pity. (=
For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on Fri, while m=
y trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
>    Richard
>=20
> =20
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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If you are traveling to or via the US you w=
ill clear US customs in Canada. This can add time depending on your travel s=
tatus. Add additional time for that. 

Sent from my iCar

On Jul 19, 2019=
, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard <Richard.Scheffenegger@netapp.com> wrote:



=








Hi,


 


I hope here is someone who has s=
ome first hand experience leaving form YUL (montreal airport) already.<=
/o:p>


 


Their web site claims, that=



 



=E2=80=9CGetting to the airport



Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advanc=
e, it=E2=80=99s essential to plan the best way to get
 to the airport.=E2=80=9D



 



SRSLY?



Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min befo=
re boarding (45 min before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield w=
ith only 27 mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete
 with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s



 



Have the processes really become this inefficient=
?



 



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday,=
 which would be a pity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings s=
cheduled on Fri, while my trip was planned
 much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)


 



Best regards,



   Richard



 






=

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From: Matt Tooley 
To: Jared Mauch , "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:42:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
To: Matt Tooley , Jared Mauch 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:51:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" 
To: Matt Tooley 
CC: Jared Mauch , "Scheffenegger, Richard" , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] [EXTERNAL] Re:  YUL airport departures
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And there is Montreal smoked meat to be had after security, so there are de=
licious ways to wait for your flight.

Glenn

On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Matt Tooley > wrote:

You definitely will need more than 45 minutes.  The airport is efficient, b=
ut can be busy and the lines can get somewhat long.  So you need to budget =
that you will have to wait in line.

Matt


From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Jared Mauch >
Date: Friday, July 19, 2019 at 7:39 AM
To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" >
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@iet=
f.org>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures

If you are traveling to or via the US you will clear US customs in Canada. =
This can add time depending on your travel status. Add additional time for =
that.
Sent from my iCar

On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard > wrote:
Hi,

I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form YUL =
(montreal airport) already.

Their web site claims, that


"Getting to the airport

Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advance, it's essential to=
 plan the best way to get to the airport."



SRSLY?

Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min before=
 departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 mio. PAX/yr c=
an hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s



Have the processes really become this inefficient?



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a pity. (F=
or a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on Fri, while m=
y trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)



Best regards,

   Richard


--
105attendees mailing list
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And there is Montreal smoked meat to be had after security=
, so there are delicious ways to wait for your flight. 







Glenn 




On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Matt Tooley <MTooley@ncta.com> wrote:














You definitely will need more than 45 minutes. =
 The airport is efficient, but can be busy and the lines can get somewhat l=
ong.  So you need to budget that you will have to wait in line.


 




Matt 


 




 




From=
: 105attendees <=
105attendees-bounces@ietf.=
org> on behalf of Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>

Date: Friday, July 19, 2019 at 7:39 AM

To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" <Richard.Scheffenegger@netapp.com>

Cc: "105attendees@ietf=
.org" <105attendees@ie=
tf.org>

Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures=







 




If you are traveling =
to or via the US you will clear US customs in Canada. This can add time dep=
ending on your travel status. Add additional time for that. 




Sent from my iCar








On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard <Richard.Scheffenegger@netapp.com> w=
rote:








Hi,


 


I hope here is someone who has some first hand exper=
ience leaving form YUL (montreal airport) already.


 


Their web site claims, that


 



“Getting to the air=
port



Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advance, it=
217;s essential to plan the best way to get to the airport.”



 



SRSLY?



Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min=
 before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 mio. P=
AX/yr can hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr
 over here. /s



 



Have the processes really become this inefficient?=




 



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a p=
ity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on Fri, =
while my trip was planned much before the schedule
 was finalized, unfortunately)



 



Best regards,



   Richard



 
























--_000_47BCA1A119284895A149EA63F567ACD6nbcunicom_--


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In-Reply-To: 
From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:25:30 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Sandra Murphy 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] looking for a social ticket
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The ticket is no longer available.

Regards,
 Rifaat




On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 10:48 PM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
wrote:

> Hi Sandra,
>
> I have one ticket that I do not need anymore.
> Let me know if you still looking for one.
>
> Regards,
>  Rifaat
>
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:48 PM Sandra Murphy  wrote:
>
>> I think I=E2=80=99m the first to start the usual attendees message threa=
d.
>>
>> I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.
>>
>> If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.
>>
>> =E2=80=94Sandy
>>
>>
>> --
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The ticket is no longer available.

Rega=
rds,
=C2=A0Rifaat




On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 10:48 PM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef <rifaat.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sandra,

=

I have one ticket that I do not need =
anymore.
Let me know if you still look=
ing for one.

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat=


On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:48 PM Sandra Murphy <sandy@tislabs.com> wrote:
I think I=E2=80=99m th=
e first to start the usual attendees message thread.



I registered early for the IETF but not the social, and it is sold out.



If anyone has a ticket available, I would like to buy it from you.



=E2=80=94Sandy





-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

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From: "STARK, BARBARA H" 
To: "'Wes Hardaker'" , "'105attendees@ietf.org'" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] A few more IETF guides still needed (IoT anyone?)
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Matt Tooley writes:
> You definitely will need more than 45 minutes.

... but three hours is still crazy pants.


From nobody Fri Jul 19 07:16:06 2019
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From: Sarah Banks 
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To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Richard,
    Montreal generally has a LOT of constructuon going on, and around the ai=
rport is typically no exception; part of that 3 hours might also mean =E2=80=
=9Cyou think it=E2=80=99s a 30 minute cab ride but it turns into an hour=E2=80=
=9D :)

HTH,
Sarah

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
> =20
> I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form YUL=
 (montreal airport) already.
> =20
> Their web site claims, that
> =20
> =E2=80=9CGetting to the airport
>=20
> Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advance, it=E2=80=99s ess=
ential to plan the best way to get to the airport.=E2=80=9D
>=20
> =20
>=20
> SRSLY?
>=20
> Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min befor=
e departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 mio. PAX/yr c=
an hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Have the processes really become this inefficient?
>=20
> =20
>=20
> If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a pity. (=
For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on Fri, while m=
y trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
>    Richard
>=20
> =20
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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Ric=
hard,
    Montreal generally has a LOT of co=
nstructuon going on, and around the airport is typically no exception; part o=
f that 3 hours might also mean =E2=80=9Cyou think it=E2=80=99s a 30 minute c=
ab ride but it turns into an hour=E2=80=9D :)

HTH,
Sarah
On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard <Richard.Scheffenegger@netapp.com> w=
rote:



=








Hi,


 


I hope here is someone who has s=
ome first hand experience leaving form YUL (montreal airport) already.<=
/o:p>


 


Their web site claims, that=



 



=E2=80=9CGetting to the airport



Since you have to arrive at least three hours in advanc=
e, it=E2=80=99s essential to plan the best way to get
 to the airport.=E2=80=9D



 



SRSLY?



Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min befo=
re boarding (45 min before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield w=
ith only 27 mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete
 with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s



 



Have the processes really become this inefficient=
?



 



If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday,=
 which would be a pity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings s=
cheduled on Fri, while my trip was planned
 much before the schedule was finalized, unfortunately)


 



Best regards,



   Richard



 






=

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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
References: 
From: Ken Murchison 
Organization: FastMail US LLC
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Last year, I arrived about 2 hrs early via the 420 bus (about 30-40min 
ride) and had time to have dinner at the bar before I boarded.

That said, I do have Global Entry to speed through US customs.


On 7/19/19 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form 
> YUL (montreal airport) already.
>
> Their web site claims, that
>
> *Getting to the airport*
>
> Since you have to *arrive at least three hours in advance*, its 
> essential to plan the best way to get to the airport.
>
> SRSLY?
>
> Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min 
> before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27 
> mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s
>
> Have the processes really become this inefficient?
>
> If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a 
> pity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on 
> Fri, while my trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized, 
> unfortunately)
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Richard
>
>
-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC


--------------2DF69514F884A162972287A4
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Last year, I arrived about 2 hrs early via the 420 bus (about
      30-40min ride) and had time to have dinner at the bar before I
      boarded.

    
That said, I do have Global Entry to speed through US customs.

    


    

    
On 7/19/19 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger,
      Richard wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      

        
Hi,

        

        
I hope here is someone
            who has some first hand experience leaving form YUL
            (montreal airport) already.

        

        
Their web site claims,
            that

        

        
Getting to
              the airport

        

          Since you
            have toarrive at least three hours in
                advance, its essential to plan the best
            way to get to the airport.

        

        
SRSLY?

        
Back home, I
            tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min
            before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with
            only 27 mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr
            over here. /s

        

        
Have the
            processes really become this inefficient?

        

        
If so, I will
            have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a pity.
            (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings
            scheduled on Fri, while my trip was planned much before the
            schedule was finalized, unfortunately)

        

        
Best regards,

        
 Richard

        

      

      

      

    

    
-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC

  


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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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No, the two (or three) hours is after you arrive at the airport.  You
have to add the construction delays up front.

And I am not kidding.

PS. By 2022, we will (supposedly) have a train to the airport, which
should eliminate the guesswork on how long it will take ot get to the
airport.  But that does you no good this trip...  :-)

On 2019-07-19 10:15 a.m., Sarah Banks wrote:
> Richard,
>     Montreal generally has a LOT of constructuon going on, and around
> the airport is typically no exception; part of that 3 hours might also
> mean “you think it’s a 30 minute cab ride but it turns into an hour” :)
> 
> HTH,
> Sarah
> 
> On Jul 19, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Scheffenegger, Richard
>  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I hope here is someone who has some first hand experience leaving form
>> YUL (montreal airport) already.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Their web site claims, that
>>
>>  
>>
>> “*Getting to the airport*
>>
>> Since you have to *arrive at least three hours in advance*, it’s
>> essential to plan the best way to get to the airport.”
>>
>>  
>>
>> SRSLY?
>>
>> Back home, I tend to show up about 15-30 min before boarding (45 min
>> before departure), but admittedly, my primary airfield with only 27
>> mio. PAX/yr can hardly compete with 18 mio. PAX/yr over here. /s
>>
>>  
>>
>> Have the processes really become this inefficient?
>>
>>  
>>
>> If so, I will have to miss out the entire Friday, which would be a
>> pity. (For a change, there is one of my focus WG meetings scheduled on
>> Fri, while my trip was planned much before the schedule was finalized,
>> unfortunately)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>    Richard
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
> 

-- 
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8


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From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
To: William Atwood , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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From: Andrew Alston 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Organization: Concordia University, Montreal
Message-ID: <695d7098-ade1-8a58-9fa9-2d39522d578a@concordia.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:55:02 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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The Air Canada site at

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/check-in-and-boarding-times.html

suggests 120 minutes before flight time for checkin for International
flights (including the US), and the checkin process *closes* 60 minutes
before flight time.

Selected destinations require 180 minutes (Algiers, Casablanca, Tel Aviv).

Even Domestic flights (within Canada) require 90 minutes.

Sorry about that. :-)

On 2019-07-19 9:58 a.m., Dave Lawrence wrote:
> Matt Tooley writes:
>> You definitely will need more than 45 minutes.
>
> .... but three hours is still crazy pants.
>

-- 
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8


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From: "Arfaoui, Imen" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
CC: "Snider, Jamie" 
Thread-Topic: Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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Subject: [105attendees] Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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Hi there,
Would someone let us know which sessions exactly will deal with SHAKEN-STIR=
 protocol,=20

Thanks in advance,

Imen Arfaoui
Conformit=E9 et enqu=EAtes | Compliance and Enforcement
Agente Principale de la Mise en Application | Senior Enforcement Officer
imen.arfaoui@crtc.gc.ca
T=E9l=E9phone=A0| Telephone 819-997-4663 - T=E9l=E9copieur=A0| Facsimile 81=
9-953-3756




From nobody Fri Jul 19 08:43:41 2019
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From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:43:14 -0400
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To: "Arfaoui, Imen" 
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Snider, Jamie" 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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--00000000000042d2cf058e0a9627
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The STIR session is 10-12 Monday morning.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/#2019-07-22-080000

Regards,
 Rifaat


On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:23 AM Arfaoui, Imen 
wrote:

> Hi there,
> Would someone let us know which sessions exactly will deal with
> SHAKEN-STIR protocol,
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Imen Arfaoui
> Conformit=C3=A9 et enqu=C3=AAtes | Compliance and Enforcement
> Agente Principale de la Mise en Application | Senior Enforcement Officer
> imen.arfaoui@crtc.gc.ca
> T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone | Telephone 819-997-4663 - T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieur | Fa=
csimile 819-953-3756
>
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

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The STIR session is 10-12 Monday morning.<=
div>
Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat
=C2=A0

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:23 AM Arfaoui, Imen <imen.arfaoui@crtc.gc.ca> wrote:
Hi there,

Would someone let us know which sessions exactly will deal with SHAKEN-STIR=
 protocol, 



Thanks in advance,



Imen Arfaoui

Conformit=C3=A9 et enqu=C3=AAtes | Compliance and Enforcement

Agente Principale de la Mise en Application | Senior Enforcement Officer
imen.arfaoui@c=
rtc.gc.ca

T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone=C2=A0| Telephone 819-997-4663 - T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieur=
=C2=A0| Facsimile 819-953-3756







-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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From: Wes Hardaker 
To: "STARK\, BARBARA H" 
Cc: "'Wes Hardaker'" , "'105attendees\@ietf.org'" <105attendees@ietf.org>
References:  <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E22EA01@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com>
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In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E22EA01@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> (BARBARA H. STARK's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:30:04 +0000")
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"STARK, BARBARA H"  writes:

> Wes: Thx so much to you and the team for setting this up.

Thanks Barbara, I'm certainty very happy you appreciate the new system.
It makes our life quite a bit easier too.

To give credit where it is absolutely due: though I've applied tweaks to
the system, Robert Sparks designed and implemented everything shortly
before 104 and his work on the system is greatly appreciated.  He
deserves all the credit for the new system.
-- 
Wes Hardaker
USC/ISI


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From: Eric Burger 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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My experience is AC is strict about 60 minute-prior check in. I was at the =
airport and got in the queue 75 minutes before departure. Due to it being a=
 single-server queue and some complex issues ahead of me, by the time it wa=
s my turn, it was 55 minutes before departure. The CSR said it was too late=
 for me to check in. It took some very polite discussion, but they finally =
relented as I had no bags to check and, after all, it was their fault.

-----Original Message-----
From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of William Atw=
ood
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 10:55 AM
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures

The Air Canada site at

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.aircanada.com_ca=
_en_aco_home_plan_check-2Din-2Dinformation_check-2Din-2Dand-2Dboarding-2Dti=
mes.html&d=3DDwICAg&c=3Dy0h0omCe0jAUGr4gAQ02Fw&r=3DTVv87_J0HtGjAqT4ua-SSf8n=
owB3zfC3-urSJLIruLg&m=3Djn9sdPsq6wQYq3sqmpX-muzWBIbWQQS3p1TDkyg4nFI&s=3DOJM=
cw_E9e5RVs4xw6bY9aRVkdqaXqzokHxBMaIREgOA&e=3D=20

suggests 120 minutes before flight time for checkin for International fligh=
ts (including the US), and the checkin process *closes* 60 minutes before f=
light time.

Selected destinations require 180 minutes (Algiers, Casablanca, Tel Aviv).

Even Domestic flights (within Canada) require 90 minutes.

Sorry about that. :-)

On 2019-07-19 9:58 a.m., Dave Lawrence wrote:
> Matt Tooley writes:
>> You definitely will need more than 45 minutes.
>
> .... but three hours is still crazy pants.
>

--=20
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?=
u=3Dhttp-3A__users.encs.concordia.ca_-7Ebill&d=3DDwICAg&c=3Dy0h0omCe0jAUGr4=
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g&e=3D=20
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8

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In-Reply-To: 
From: "Andrew G. Malis" 
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:52:59 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Cc: "Arfaoui, Imen" ,  "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Snider, Jamie" 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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That particular URL isn't working well, at least not for me.

Look at Monday morning here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/ .
It's at 10 AM in Duluth.

Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:43 AM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
wrote:

> The STIR session is 10-12 Monday morning.
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/#2019-07-22-080000
>
> Regards,
>  Rifaat
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:23 AM Arfaoui, Imen  > wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>> Would someone let us know which sessions exactly will deal with
>> SHAKEN-STIR protocol,
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Imen Arfaoui
>> Conformit=C3=A9 et enqu=C3=AAtes | Compliance and Enforcement
>> Agente Principale de la Mise en Application | Senior Enforcement Officer
>> imen.arfaoui@crtc.gc.ca
>> T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone | Telephone 819-997-4663 - T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieur | F=
acsimile 819-953-3756
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--0000000000004a1aba058e0c66f0
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That particular URL isn't working well, at least not f=
or me.

Look at Monday morning here:=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/meet=
ing/agenda/ . It's at 10 AM in Duluth.

Che=
ers,
Andy


On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:43 AM Ri=
faat Shekh-Yusef <rifaat.ietf@g=
mail.com> wrote:
The STIR session is 10-12 Monday morning.

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaa=
t
=C2=A0

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:23 AM Arfaoui, Ime=
n <imen.ar=
faoui@crtc.gc.ca> wrote:
Hi there,

Would someone let us know which sessions exactly will deal with SHAKEN-STIR=
 protocol, 



Thanks in advance,



Imen Arfaoui

Conformit=C3=A9 et enqu=C3=AAtes | Compliance and Enforcement

Agente Principale de la Mise en Application | Senior Enforcement Officer
imen.arfaoui@c=
rtc.gc.ca

T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone=C2=A0| Telephone 819-997-4663 - T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieur=
=C2=A0| Facsimile 819-953-3756







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From: "Arfaoui, Imen" 
To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Snider, Jamie" 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Need to know the sessions on SHAKEN-STIR please
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To: William Atwood , 105attendees@ietf.org
References:    <23857.52329.828413.540909@gro.dd.org> <695d7098-ade1-8a58-9fa9-2d39522d578a@concordia.ca>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" 
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:40:31 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL airport departures
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So, when I go home from Montreal via Toronto (to Washington DC), I 
presume that I will clear customs in Toronto, and can treat Montreal as 
a domestic flight?

Yours,
Joel

On 7/19/2019 10:55 AM, William Atwood wrote:
> The Air Canada site at
> 
> https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/check-in-and-boarding-times.html
> 
> suggests 120 minutes before flight time for checkin for International
> flights (including the US), and the checkin process *closes* 60 minutes
> before flight time.
> 
> Selected destinations require 180 minutes (Algiers, Casablanca, Tel Aviv).
> 
> Even Domestic flights (within Canada) require 90 minutes.
> 
> Sorry about that. :-)
> 
> On 2019-07-19 9:58 a.m., Dave Lawrence wrote:
>> Matt Tooley writes:
>>> You definitely will need more than 45 minutes.
>>
>> .... but three hours is still crazy pants.
>>
> 


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From: Matthew Pounsett 
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Cc: William Atwood , 105attendees@ietf.org
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On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 at 15:40, Joel M. Halpern  wrote:

> So, when I go home from Montreal via Toronto (to Washington DC), I
> presume that I will clear customs in Toronto, and can treat Montreal as
> a domestic flight?
>

Yes, that's right.

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=

On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 at 15:40, Joel M.=
 Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com=
> wrote:
So, =
when I go home from Montreal via Toronto (to Washington DC), I 

presume that I will clear customs in Toronto, and can treat Montreal as 
a domestic flight?

Yes, that's righ=
t.=C2=A0


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From nobody Fri Jul 19 16:33:54 2019
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From: Sean Leonard 
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Subject: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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Hi 105ers:

I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going to the Fairmon=
t. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the United States.

What are the child seat requirements in Canada? What options are there for g=
etting from the airport, and the fares?

There is the express bus (which I have taken before) but I do not know how t=
he fares will add up with a family (including kids).

Then there are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride with=
 car seats before in any country.

Thanks!

Sean=


From nobody Fri Jul 19 16:37:59 2019
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From: Sean Leonard 
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Just found this:
http://www.stm.info/en/info/fares/transit-fares/aeroport-p-e-trudeau-747

Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! (Kids 5=
 and under are always free.)

Still, would like to hear data points of actual experience with kids on vari=
ous modes or transit, thanks. We will have a good amount of luggage.

Sean

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Sean Leonard  wrote:
>=20
> Hi 105ers:
>=20
> I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going to the Fairm=
ont. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the United States.
>=20
> What are the child seat requirements in Canada? What options are there for=
 getting from the airport, and the fares?
>=20
> There is the express bus (which I have taken before) but I do not know how=
 the fares will add up with a family (including kids).
>=20
> Then there are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride wi=
th car seats before in any country.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Sean
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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Just found this:
Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through Augus=
t 27! (Kids 5 and under are always free.)

Still, wo=
uld like to hear data points of actual experience with kids on various modes=
 or transit, thanks. We will have a good amount of luggage.

Sean

On Jul 19, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Sean Leon=
ard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>=
 wrote:

Hi 105=
ers:

I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, w=
ith two children, going to the Fairmont. They normally ride with booster and=
 car seats in the United States.

What are t=
he child seat requirements in Canada? What options are there for getting fro=
m the airport, and the fares?

There is the e=
xpress bus (which I have taken before) but I do not know how the fares will a=
dd up with a family (including kids).

Then t=
here are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride with car s=
eats before in any country.

Thanks!<=
br>
Sean
-- 
105attend=
ees mailing list
10=
5attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendee=
s
=

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From: "Marc Blanchet" 
To: "Sean Leonard" 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 19:41:07 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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747 bus is essentially used for airport transportation. so you will be 
like most others with your luggage. I can’t see any issue.

Marc.

On 19 Jul 2019, at 19:37, Sean Leonard wrote:

> Just found this:
> http://www.stm.info/en/info/fares/transit-fares/aeroport-p-e-trudeau-747
>
> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! 
> (Kids 5 and under are always free.)
>
> Still, would like to hear data points of actual experience with kids 
> on various modes or transit, thanks. We will have a good amount of 
> luggage.
>
> Sean
>
>> On Jul 19, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Sean Leonard  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi 105ers:
>>
>> I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going to the 
>> Fairmont. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the United 
>> States.
>>
>> What are the child seat requirements in Canada? What options are 
>> there for getting from the airport, and the fares?
>>
>> There is the express bus (which I have taken before) but I do not 
>> know how the fares will add up with a family (including kids).
>>
>> Then there are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a 
>> ride with car seats before in any country.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Sean
>> -- 
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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747 bus is essentially used for =
airport transportation. so you will be like most others with your luggage=
=2E I can=E2=80=99t see any issue.


Marc.


On 19 Jul 2019, at 19:37, Sean Leonard wrote:




Just found this:

Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public trans=
it on weekends through August 27! (Kids 5 and under are always free.)

Still, would like to hear data points of actual exp=
erience with kids on various modes or transit, thanks. We will have a goo=
d amount of luggage.

Sean
On Jul 19, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com> wrote:

Hi 105ers:

I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going =
to the Fairmont. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the Uni=
ted States.

What are the child seat requ=
irements in Canada? What options are there for getting from the airport, =
and the fares?

There is the express bus =
(which I have taken before) but I do not know how the fares will add up w=
ith a family (including kids).

Then ther=
e are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride with car s=
eats before in any country.

Thanks!

Sean
-- 
105=
attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/105attendees




-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees







--=_MailMate_0C04F4EB-C024-449D-AF3D-4A2A8EABA856_=--


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From: Jonathan Morton 
In-Reply-To: <6AD34756-F08C-4152-933E-4F99B3B7D769@seantek.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 23:11:13 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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> On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard  =
wrote:
>=20
> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! =
(Kids 5 and under are always free.)

Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required =
for the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, =
including buses and metro.  So it makes sense to take the 747 into the =
city, then another bus (if necessary) to lessen the walking distance.  =
The 747's first stop out of the airport is at a metro station.

Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are =
valid for a shorter time.  Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP =
discounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.

As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city =
buses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.  If you =
can't easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, =
you'll need to hold onto it by your seat.  But if the 747 gets you close =
enough to walk comfortably, it's a good option by itself.

Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need =
one on a bus or metro.  Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if =
they're old enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.  Intercity =
buses usually have seatbelts; the city and airport buses do not.

I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6

 - Jonathan Morton


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Subject: [105attendees] Lists of Attendees - Sorting
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The IETF web site offers lists of meeting attendees; however starting =
this year (104 & 105 meetings) the lists are not sortable.

On the old web site you could click the headings to rearrange attendees =
based on companies they represent, or first names, or countries.=20


The new web site does not provide the sorting option.=20
=20

Sorting was very useful for business/social purposes. Is there any way =
we could put back the ability to sort by different column headings?


Maggie Glanowska=20



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From: "Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" 
To: "M. Glanowska" , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Lists of Attendees - Sorting
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Lists of Attendees - Sorting
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1) Excel (or whatever substitute) is your friend
2) There are more new aspects this year, such as the listing of remote atte=
ndees on the same page which makes sorting a little more tricky.
I agree the previous format was more readily useful. Now some processing is=
 required.
Regards,
Julien.

-----Original Message-----
From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of M. Glanowsk=
a
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 3:17 PM
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
Subject: [105attendees] Lists of Attendees - Sorting

The IETF web site offers lists of meeting attendees; however starting this =
year (104 & 105 meetings) the lists are not sortable.

On the old web site you could click the headings to rearrange attendees bas=
ed on companies they represent, or first names, or countries.=20


The new web site does not provide the sorting option.=20
=20

Sorting was very useful for business/social purposes. Is there any way we c=
ould put back the ability to sort by different column headings?


Maggie Glanowska=20


--=20
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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To: Ken Murchison 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:05, Ken Murchison  wrote:
>=20
> So you're saying that if you fly from London to New York, you can use =
the Global Entry kiosks even if you only have Nexus?

I have NEXUS and I have used the Global Entry lines MANY times when =
flying from LHR to IAD.  NEXUS also worked with GE lines when returning =
from SIN to SFO after IETF/SG, and on many other occasions.

Ran


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From: Jared Mauch 
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To: Bob Hinden 
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> On Jul 16, 2019, at 11:03 PM, Bob Hinden  wrote:
>=20
> Warren,
>=20
>> On Jul 16, 2019, at 12:01 PM, Warren Kumari  =
wrote:
>>=20
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:22 AM Bob Hinden  =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> While this is all interesting, I assume it is too late to arrange =
for NEXUS for the Montreal IETF.
>>=20
>> ... yes, but we had an almost identical discussion before IETF102 --
>> July 14-20, 2018,  Montreal, Quebec, CA.
>=20
> I suspect we will have again prior to IETF 107 too :-(
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>>=20
>> IETF 107 is, once again, in Canada:
>> March 21-27, 2020
>> Host: TBD
>> Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Yes, someone privately told me they were amused about my marketing =
campaign :-)

If you are a regular and qualify, it=E2=80=99s really worth it.  It will =
save you about 30 minutes on arrival and 10-30 on departure because you =
can use the NEXUS(+GE) security line (similar to TSA Pre) as well as the =
kiosk at the airport in Canada.

They check that you have either your physical NEXUS or GE card at the =
airport, so if you haven=E2=80=99t left yet, grab it.

I=E2=80=99ll remind you before 107.  When I obtained GE originally it =
was about 7 days to conditional approval. NEXUS took several months =
until conditional approval and I live near a major US-CA border crossing =
(Detroit-Windsor) so the interview dates were pretty far out there.  It =
took from September until late December to get things done for our =
family.  If you do a family appointment you need to schedule the adults =
+ kids all together (or at least on the same day).

See everyone at IEPG + IETF Tomorrow.

- Jared


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On Jul 20, 2019, at 09:38, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) =
 wrote:
>=20
> I agree the previous format was more readily useful.

Yes.  I=E2=80=99ve been stopped in my tracks by the recent improvements, =
too.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "IRTF Discuss" , "IETF WG Chairs" , "IETF Discussion" , "105 attendees" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:15:36 -0400
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Subject: [105attendees] Let's have some fun: PechaKucha & friends
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A reminder and invitation to contemplate as you travel to Montreal...

As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social event around =

satirical short talks.  (Sometimes there is beer.)  In the past, it=E2=80=
=99s =

been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKucha format is =

rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minimal text).  =

So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment.  This time, any talk format wi=
ll be =

allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes.  As before, =

the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or =

controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited.  Anyone can =

participate in this unofficial social event.

The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:30pm.  =

Location will be announced later.

If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here are two of my =

personal favorites from prior IETFs by =

[Pete](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-099-Prague-videos/07-pete-resnick=
-8.mp4) =

and =

[Brian](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-096-Berlin-videos/2_trammel-8.mp=
4). =

  Video from the past BA PKs can be found =

[here](http://snaggletooth.akam.ai).

If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tutorials and =

suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha.  Here are a few: =

[[1](http://www.pechakucha.org/)], =

[[2](http://blog.indezine.com/2012/05/10-tips-to-create-and-present-pecha=
=2Ehtml)], =

[[3](https://catherinecronin.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/pecha-kucha/)].

As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions, People!=E2=80=9D=


Format Details:

* Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first served.
* To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to =

aaron.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation.
* Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes =

(strictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach).
* Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF.

--=_MailMate_1748D8BD-AC86-4CD0-8682-FBE4D1728537_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable










A reminder and invitation to contemplate as you travel to=
 Montreal...



As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social=
 event around satirical short talks.  (Sometimes there is beer.)  In the =
past, it=E2=80=99s been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the Pec=
haKucha format is rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds=
, minimal text).  So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment.  This time, =
any talk format will be allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7=
 minutes.  As before, the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and =
satirical or controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited.  Anyo=
ne can participate in this unofficial social event.



The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9=
:30pm.  Location will be announced later.



If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here =
are two of my personal favorites from prior IETFs by Pete and Brian.  Vi=
deo from the past BA PKs can be found here.



If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online =
tutorials and suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha.  Here are a =
few: [1], [2], [3].



As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions=
, People!=E2=80=9D



Format Details:










--=_MailMate_1748D8BD-AC86-4CD0-8682-FBE4D1728537_=--


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Subject: [105attendees] Check your wallets!  :-)
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https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/03/bank-canada-introduces-first-vertical-b=
ill-employee-forgets-select-landscape-mode/


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor & Publisher
The Internet Protocol Journal
Cell: +1 415 370-4628
T-Mobile: +1 415 889-9821
EE UK: +44 7805 977889
Docomo: +81 90 3337 9311=E2=80=AC
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Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 Jul 2019, at 11:12, Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>=20
>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 09:38, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <=
julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> I agree the previous format was more readily useful.
>=20
> Yes.  I=E2=80=99ve been stopped in my tracks by the recent improvements, t=
oo.
>=20
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/03/bank-canada-introduces=
-first-vertical-bill-employee-forgets-select-landscape-mode/


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor & Publisher<=
/div>
The Internet Protocol Journal
Cell: +1 415 370-4628
T-Mobile: +1 4=
15 889-9821
EE UK: +44 7805 977889
<=
div style=3D"font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody; font-size: 18px; -webkit-te=
xt-size-adjust: auto;">Docomo: +81 90 3337 9311=E2=80=AC

Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 20, 2019, at 09:38, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Sa=
clay) <julien.maisonneuve=
@nokia.com> wrote:
<=
br>
I agree the previous format w=
as more readily useful.

Yes. &=
nbsp;I=E2=80=99ve been stopped in my tracks by the recent improvements, too.=


Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
<=
/span>
-- 
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org<=
br>http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
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In-Reply-To: 
From: Vittorio Bertocci 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 00:23:43 -0400
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To: Jonathan Morton 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, Sean Leonard 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the hour, but the Uber
estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to even arrive.
Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things further. Make sure you
have a lot of battery left :)

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonathan Morton  wrote=
:

> > On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard  wrote:
> >
> > Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27!
> (Kids 5 and under are always free.)
>
> Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required fo=
r
> the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, includin=
g
> buses and metro.  So it makes sense to take the 747 into the city, then
> another bus (if necessary) to lessen the walking distance.  The 747's fir=
st
> stop out of the airport is at a metro station.
>
> Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are
> valid for a shorter time.  Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP
> discounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.
>
> As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city
> buses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.  If you can=
't
> easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, you'll ne=
ed
> to hold onto it by your seat.  But if the 747 gets you close enough to wa=
lk
> comfortably, it's a good option by itself.
>
> Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need one
> on a bus or metro.  Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if they're o=
ld
> enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.  Intercity buses usually
> have seatbelts; the city and airport buses do not.
>
> I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6
>
>  - Jonathan Morton
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--000000000000cd15f3058e295376
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of =
the hour, but the Uber estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the=
 driver to even arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things f=
urther. Make sure you have a lot of battery left :)

On Fri, Jul 1=
9, 2019 at 23:11 Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com> wrote=
:

> 

> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! (=
Kids 5 and under are always free.)



Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required for =
the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, including =
buses and metro.=C2=A0 So it makes sense to take the 747 into the city, the=
n another bus (if necessary) to lessen the walking distance.=C2=A0 The 747&=
#39;s first stop out of the airport is at a metro station.



Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are val=
id for a shorter time.=C2=A0 Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP di=
scounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.



As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city b=
uses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.=C2=A0 If you c=
an't easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, yo=
u'll need to hold onto it by your seat.=C2=A0 But if the 747 gets you c=
lose enough to walk comfortably, it's a good option by itself.



Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need o=
ne on a bus or metro.=C2=A0 Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if=
 they're old enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.=C2=A0 Inte=
rcity buses usually have seatbelts; the city and airport buses do not.



I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6



=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





--000000000000cd15f3058e295376--


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In-Reply-To: 
From: Job Snijders 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 01:07:56 -0400
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To: Sean Croghan 
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fea7d3058e29f198"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] IETF 105 Network Information
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Dear Sean, Warren, Rob, NOC team, attendees,

I=E2=80=99d like to offer my compliments for how the IETF 105 network is se=
t up
from an internet routing perspective. This is very exciting. It is a joy to
see IETF work be applied in context of IETF meetings themselves.

Attendees can run a quick test by going to the following URL:
http://ripe.net/s/rpki-test/

It appears (and the NOC confirmed) the meeting network is rejecting RPKI
invalid BGP announcements. This is awesome.

But as a result, we as attendees don=E2=80=99t have access to a set of IP a=
ddresses
/ destinations which are covered by misconfigured RPKI ROAs. There are a
few thousand of such routes in the BGP Default-Free Zone. Usually, the lack
of ability to access to a few thousand prefixes out of the ~ 700K routing
table would be cause for deep concern. Operators don=E2=80=99t like it. The=
 number
may seem to high from an intuitive perspective.

However, it appears those prefixes aren=E2=80=99t really in use, or global
reachability isn=E2=80=99t a priority for those resource holders. The perfe=
ct
outcome of the deployment of RPKI Origin Validation on the IETF network is
that attendees say =E2=80=9Cwe didn=E2=80=99t notice a difference=E2=80=9D.

It=E2=80=99s 2019, RPKI Origin Validation isn=E2=80=99t yet the norm, but t=
he internet
industry is getting there. I recommend everyone to use this opportunity to
take a look at destinations you care about, or perhaps take home with you
the observation that this type of configuration doesn=E2=80=99t cause you i=
ssues,
and consider deploying yourself too!

Kind regards,

Job

On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 13:21 Sean Croghan  wrote:

> Welcome to Montr=C3=A9al! and IETF 105
>
>  For network details, please see the full document at
> https://tickets.meeting.ietf.org/wiki/IETF105network
>
>
> IETF Wireless
> -------------------
>
> In the lobby, public spaces and guest rooms of the Marriott Maquis Queen=
=E2=80=99s
> Park, please use the open  =E2=80=9Cietf-hotel=E2=80=9D wireless network.
>
>
> In the meeting areas, we encourage you to use the secure =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=
=80=9D network,
> with a username of =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D and a password of =E2=80=9Cietf=
=E2=80=9D.  If you aren=E2=80=99t able to
> use the secure network, the =E2=80=9Cietf-legacy105=E2=80=9D is available=
 with no security.
>
>
> Getting Help
> -----------------
>
> To get help in person, the help desk is available in Square Dorchester,
>  starting at 4pm on Sunday, and then daily starting at 8:30am until 6pm.
>
>
> To submit or view network trouble tickets via the web interface please se=
e
> https://tickets.meeting.ietf.org. To submit a ticket via email, please
> send to tickets@meeting.ietf.org.
>
>
> Thank You to our many sponsors and supporters including:
>
>
> Telus, MetroOptic and OpenFace, who have graciously donated connectivity
> via a pair of 1Gb/s uplinks.
> Juniper Networks, who donated new core routers that have moved into
> production at this meeting.
> The volunteers that make the network happen, before, during, and between
> each meeting.
>
>
> We hope you have a great meeting and enjoy Montr=C3=A9al!
>
> =E2=80=94 IETF NOC Team
>
>
>
>
> --
> 105all mailing list
> 105all@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105all
>

--000000000000fea7d3058e29f198
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Dear=C2=A0Sean, Wa=
rren, Rob, NOC team, attendees,

I=E2=80=99d like to offer m=
y compliments for how the IETF 105 network is set up from an internet routi=
ng perspective. This is very exciting. It is a joy to see IETF work be appl=
ied in context of IETF meetings themselves.

Attendees can run a q=
uick test by going to the following URL:=C2=A0http://ripe.net/s/rp=
ki-test/

It appears (and the NOC confirmed) the meeting network is rejecting RPK=
I invalid BGP announcements. This is awesome.

But as a result, we as atten=
dees don=E2=80=99t have access to a set of IP addresses / destinations whic=
h are covered by misconfigured RPKI ROAs. There are a few thousand of such =
routes in the BGP Default-Free Zone. Usually, the lack of ability to access=
 to a few thousand prefixes out of the ~ 700K routing table would be cause =
for deep concern. Operators don=E2=80=99t like it. The number may seem to h=
igh from an intuitive perspective.

However, it appears those prefixes aren=
=E2=80=99t really in use, or global reachability isn=E2=80=99t a priority f=
or those resource holders. The perfect outcome of the deployment of RPKI Or=
igin Validation on the IETF network is that attendees say =E2=80=9Cwe didn=
=E2=80=99t notice a difference=E2=80=9D.

<=
div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:1rem">It=E2=80=99s 2019, RPKI Origin Va=
lidation isn=E2=80=99t yet the norm, but the internet industry is getting t=
here. I recommend everyone to use this opportunity to take a look at destin=
ations you care about, or perhaps take home with you the observation that t=
his type of configuration doesn=E2=80=99t cause you issues, and consider de=
ploying yourself too!

Kind regards,

Job
=


On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 13:21 Sean Croghan <sean@xagsolutions.com> wrote:








Welcome to Montr=C3=A9al! and IETF 105














=C2=A0For network details, please see the full document at=C2=A0https://tickets.meeting.ietf.org/wiki/IETF105network













IETF Wireless


-------------------








In the lobby, public spaces and guest rooms of the Marriott Maquis Que=
en=E2=80=99s Park, please use the open =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cietf-hotel=E2=80=9D w=
ireless network.=C2=A0



















In the meeting areas, we encourage you to use the secure =E2=80=9Cietf=
=E2=80=9D network, with a username of =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D and a password=
 of =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 If you aren=E2=80=99t able to use the sec=
ure network, the =E2=80=9Cietf-legacy105=E2=80=9D is available with no secu=
rity.













Getting Help


-----------------








To get help in person, the help desk is available in Square Dorchester=
, =C2=A0starting at 4pm on Sunday, and then daily starting at 8:30am until =
6pm.=C2=A0



















To submit or view network trouble tickets via the web interface please=
 see=C2=A0h=
ttps://tickets.meeting.ietf.org. To submit a ticket via email, please s=
end to=C2=A0t=
ickets@meeting.ietf.org.=C2=A0















Thank You to our many sponsors and supporters including:













Telus, MetroOptic and OpenFace, who have graciously donated connectivi=
ty via a pair of 1Gb/s uplinks.=C2=A0




Juniper Networks, who donated new core routers that have moved into pr=
oduction at this meeting.=C2=A0


The volunteers that make the network happen, before, during, and betwe=
en each meeting.=C2=A0











We hope you have a great meeting and enjoy Montr=C3=A9al!















=E2=80=94 IETF NOC Team


























-- 

105all mailing list

105all@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105all




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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
References:  <6AD34756-F08C-4152-933E-4F99B3B7D769@seantek.com>  
From: Sean Leonard 
Message-ID: 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 00:23:38 -0700
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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Thanks all.

Due to a "travel document misunderstanding", I will be participating=20
remotely until Wednesday. Guess it was a good thing I was lazy about=20
buying up social tickets. :^) Sticking with the 747 bus seems good; it=20
does not sound like there is any meaningfully faster or safer option.

Sean

On 7/20/2019 9:23 PM, Vittorio Bertocci wrote:
> Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the hour, but the U=
ber=20
> estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to even=20
> arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things further.=20
> Make sure you have a lot of battery left :)
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonathan Morton  > wrote:
>
>     > On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard      > wrote:
>     >
>     > Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August
>     27! (Kids 5 and under are always free.)
>
>     Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket
>     required for the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire
>     STM system, including buses and metro.=C2=A0 So it makes sense to t=
ake
>     the 747 into the city, then another bus (if necessary) to lessen
>     the walking distance.=C2=A0 The 747's first stop out of the airport=
 is
>     at a metro station.
>
>     Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50
>     which are valid for a shorter time.=C2=A0 Those are adult fares; th=
ere
>     is a child/OAP discounted fare as well as the the free-children
>     allowance mentioned.
>
>     As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal
>     city buses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747
>     is.=C2=A0 If you can't easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-c=
over
>     luggage racks, you'll need to hold onto it by your seat.=C2=A0 But =
if
>     the 747 gets you close enough to walk comfortably, it's a good
>     option by itself.
>
>     Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't
>     need one on a bus or metro.=C2=A0 Just have them sit on a parent's =
lap
>     or, if they're old enough to make this awkward, on their own
>     seat.=C2=A0 Intercity buses usually have seatbelts; the city and
>     airport buses do not.
>
>     I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6
>
>     =C2=A0- Jonathan Morton
>
>     --=20
>     105attendees mailing list
>     105attendees@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
>


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From: Eric Burger 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YUL WiFi
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Subject: [105attendees] YUL WiFi
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--_000_jauttc62namjuruv1qn4a1e91563705631286emailplusmobileiro_
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Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?

=97
Sent from an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind to=
 weird stuff.
Also sent from a government network. Assume everything is archived and revi=
ewable, even if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow. Finally, I=
 haven=92t figured out how to load my signing certificate, so it=92s up to =
you to figure out if this message is really from me. I hope it is.

From: "Vittorio Bertocci" >
Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 12:24:28 AM
To: "Jonathan Morton" >
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Sean Leonard" >
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids

Just landed - FYI: it=92s probably because of the hour, but the Uber estima=
tes are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to even arrive. Also,=
 the first driver cancelled, delaying things further. Make sure you have a =
lot of battery left :)

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonathan Morton > wrote:
> On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard > wrote:
>
> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! (Kid=
s 5 and under are always free.)

Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required for =
the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, including =
buses and metro.  So it makes sense to take the 747 into the city, then ano=
ther bus (if necessary) to lessen the walking distance.  The 747's first st=
op out of the airport is at a metro station.

Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are val=
id for a shorter time.  Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP discoun=
ted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.

As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city buses=
 are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.  If you can't easi=
ly lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, you'll need to =
hold onto it by your seat.  But if the 747 gets you close enough to walk co=
mfortably, it's a good option by itself.

Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need one o=
n a bus or metro.  Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if they're old =
enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.  Intercity buses usually ha=
ve seatbelts; the city and airport buses do not.

I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=85

 - Jonathan Morton

--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--_000_jauttc62namjuruv1qn4a1e91563705631286emailplusmobileiro_
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Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL? 







=97<=
/span>

Sent from=
 an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind to weird st=
uff.

Also sent=
 from a government network. Assume everything is archived and reviewable, e=
ven if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow. Finally, I haven=92=
t figured out how to load my signing
 certificate, so it=92s up to you to figure out if this message is really f=
rom me. I hope it is.






From: "Vittorio Bertocci" <Vittorio=3D40auth0.com@dmarc.ietf.org>=
;

Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 12:24:28 AM

To: "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com>

Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Sean Leonard" <=
dev+ietf@seantek.com>=
;

Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids









Just landed - FYI: it=92s probably because of the hour, b=
ut the Uber estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to =
even arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things further. Mak=
e sure you have a lot of battery left
 :)









On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonatha=
n Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com=
> wrote:





> On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com> wrote:=


> 

> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! (=
Kids 5 and under are always free.)



Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required for =
the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, including =
buses and metro.  So it makes sense to take the 747 into the city, the=
n another bus (if necessary) to lessen
 the walking distance.  The 747's first stop out of the airport is at =
a metro station.



Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are val=
id for a shorter time.  Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP di=
scounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.



As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city buses=
 are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.  If you can't=
 easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, you'll nee=
d to hold onto it by your seat.  But
 if the 747 gets you close enough to walk comfortably, it's a good option b=
y itself.



Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need one o=
n a bus or metro.  Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if they're=
 old enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.  Intercity buses =
usually have seatbelts; the city and airport
 buses do not.



I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=85



 - Jonathan Morton



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees












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References:  <6AD34756-F08C-4152-933E-4F99B3B7D769@seantek.com>   
In-Reply-To: 
From: Danny Alex Lachos Perez 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 07:44:47 -0300
Message-ID: 
To: Eric Burger 
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009ad240058e2ea608"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL WiFi
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Yes, there is Internet free connection at YUL.

Best regards,

Danny Lachos


On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:41 AM Eric Burger  wrote:

> Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?
>
> =E2=80=94
> Sent from an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind
> to weird stuff.
> Also sent from a government network. Assume everything is archived and
> reviewable, even if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow.
> Finally, I haven=E2=80=99t figured out how to load my signing certificate=
, so it=E2=80=99s
> up to you to figure out if this message is really from me. I hope it is.
>
> *From: *"Vittorio Bertocci" 
> *Date:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 12:24:28 AM
> *To: *"Jonathan Morton" 
> *Cc: *"105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Sean Leonard" <
> dev+ietf@seantek.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
>
> Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the hour, but the Ube=
r
> estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to even arriv=
e.
> Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things further. Make sure you
> have a lot of battery left :)
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonathan Morton 
> wrote:
>
>> > On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard  wrote=
:
>> >
>> > Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27!
>> (Kids 5 and under are always free.)
>>
>> Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required
>> for the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system,
>> including buses and metro.  So it makes sense to take the 747 into the
>> city, then another bus (if necessary) to lessen the walking distance.  T=
he
>> 747's first stop out of the airport is at a metro station.
>>
>> Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are
>> valid for a shorter time.  Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP
>> discounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.
>>
>> As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city
>> buses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.  If you ca=
n't
>> easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, you'll n=
eed
>> to hold onto it by your seat.  But if the 747 gets you close enough to w=
alk
>> comfortably, it's a good option by itself.
>>
>> Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need on=
e
>> on a bus or metro.  Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if they're =
old
>> enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.  Intercity buses usually
>> have seatbelts; the city and airport buses do not.
>>
>> I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6
>>
>>  - Jonathan Morton
>>
>> --
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>> 
>>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--0000000000009ad240058e2ea608
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Yes, there is Internet free connection at YUL.
<=
br clear=3D"all">
Best=C2=A0regards,

Danny Lachos
=



On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:41 AM Eric Burg=
er <Eric.Burger=3D40fcc.gov@=
dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:








Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?=C2=A0







=E2=
=80=94

Sent from =
an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind to weird stu=
ff.

Also sent =
from a government network. Assume everything is archived and reviewable, ev=
en if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow. Finally, I haven=E2=
=80=99t figured out how to load my signing
 certificate, so it=E2=80=99s up to you to figure out if this message is re=
ally from me. I hope it is.






From: "Vittorio Bertocci" <Vittorio=3D40auth0.com@dma=
rc.ietf.org>

Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 12:24:28 AM

To: "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com>

Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Sean Leonard"=
; <dev+ietf@se=
antek.com>

Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids









Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the h=
our, but the Uber estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driv=
er to even arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things furthe=
r. Make sure you have a lot of battery left
 :)









On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 23:11 Jonatha=
n Morton <chr=
omatix99@gmail.com> wrote:





> On 19 Jul, 2019, at 7:37 pm, Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com> wrote:

> 

> Kids 6-11 ride FREE on public transit on weekends through August 27! (=
Kids 5 and under are always free.)



Not immediately obvious from outside Montreal, the $10 ticket required for =
the 747 bus is actually a 24-hour pass to the entire STM system, including =
buses and metro.=C2=A0 So it makes sense to take the 747 into the city, the=
n another bus (if necessary) to lessen
 the walking distance.=C2=A0 The 747's first stop out of the airport is=
 at a metro station.



Elsewhere in the system, you can buy single tickets for $3.50 which are val=
id for a shorter time.=C2=A0 Those are adult fares; there is a child/OAP di=
scounted fare as well as the the free-children allowance mentioned.



As I'm staying elsewhere than the hotel, I found that the normal city b=
uses are not as well set up for heavy luggage as the 747 is.=C2=A0 If you c=
an't easily lift a suitcase on top of the wheel-cover luggage racks, yo=
u'll need to hold onto it by your seat.=C2=A0 But
 if the 747 gets you close enough to walk comfortably, it's a good opti=
on by itself.



Small children normally requiring an adapter seat in a car don't need o=
ne on a bus or metro.=C2=A0 Just have them sit on a parent's lap or, if=
 they're old enough to make this awkward, on their own seat.=C2=A0 Inte=
rcity buses usually have seatbelts; the city and airport
 buses do not.



I have absolutely zero experience with Uber=E2=80=A6



=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton



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From nobody Sun Jul 21 06:19:03 2019
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> On 21 Jul 2019, at 11:40, Eric Burger =
 wrote:
>=20
> Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?

Yes. Though you have to agree to be spammed by the airport. Sigh.


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From: Chris Morrow 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:09:02 -0400
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jim Reid  wrote:
> > On 21 Jul 2019, at 11:40, Eric Burger  wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?
>
> Yes. Though you have to agree to be spammed by the airport. Sigh.

wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?


From nobody Sun Jul 21 07:13:06 2019
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From: Jared Mauch 
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:09:02AM -0400, Chris Morrow wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jim Reid  wrote:
> > > On 21 Jul 2019, at 11:40, Eric Burger  wrote:
> > >
> > > Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?
> >
> > Yes. Though you have to agree to be spammed by the airport. Sigh.
> 
> wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?

nobody@ tends to go to /dev/null and is a suitable address.  Some of the
systems do validate the address is accurate by requiring you to enter
some information in exchange for their free service.

	the usual rules of if you aren't paying for it, you are the product
apply, as well as if you can be charged for something, expect it to be the
case.  (high-end hotels charge for wifi, low-end don't for example).

	- jared

-- 
Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net
clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only mine.


From nobody Sun Jul 21 07:14:31 2019
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To: Sean Leonard 
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 12:23:38AM -0700, Sean Leonard wrote:
> Thanks all.
> 
> Due to a "travel document misunderstanding", I will be participating
> remotely until Wednesday. Guess it was a good thing I was lazy about buying
> up social tickets. :^) Sticking with the 747 bus seems good; it does not
> sound like there is any meaningfully faster or safer option.

	The taxi is flat rate, and if you wear an IETF shirt the
chances are you might be able to identify someone else going to the same
destination to the fairmont.

	sorry you had travel document issues.

	- jared

-- 
Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net
clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only mine.


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about Uber: I landed after midnight, Uber claimed the rate would be =
150%, so I ended up paying a total of CA$55.69 for a YUL to Fairmont =
ride (about 24min)

Lixia

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 3:40 AM, Eric Burger =
 wrote:
>=20
> From: "Vittorio Bertocci" >
> Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 12:24:28 AM
> To: "Jonathan Morton" >
> Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org " =
<105attendees@ietf.org >, "Sean Leonard" =
>
> Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
>=20
> Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the hour, but the =
Uber estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver to even =
arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things further. Make =
sure you have a lot of battery left :)


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about=
 Uber: I landed after midnight, Uber claimed the rate would be 150%, so =
I ended up paying a total of CA$55.69 for a YUL to Fairmont ride (about =
24min)

Lixia

On Jul =
21, 2019, at 3:40 AM, Eric Burger <Eric.Burger=3D40fcc.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> =
wrote:

From: "Vittorio Bertocci" =
<Vittorio=3D40auth0.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at =
12:24:28 AM
To: "Jonathan Morton" =
<chromatix99@gmail.com>
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "Sean Leonard" <dev+ietf@seantek.com>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL =
ground transportation, with kids

Just landed - FYI: it=E2=80=99s probably because of the hour, =
but the Uber estimates are in the order of the 25 minutes for the driver =
to even arrive. Also, the first driver cancelled, delaying things =
further. Make sure you have a lot of battery left =
:)

=

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From: Chris Lemmons 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:15:50 -0400
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To: Jared Mauch 
Cc: Chris Morrow , Jim Reid ,  Eric Burger ,  "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL WiFi
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@example.net was happily accepted by the portal and is also guaranteed
not to spam any actual people. :)

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:13 AM Jared Mauch  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:09:02AM -0400, Chris Morrow wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 9:19 AM Jim Reid  wrote:
> > > > On 21 Jul 2019, at 11:40, Eric Burger  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of Uber, is there WiFi at YUL?
> > >
> > > Yes. Though you have to agree to be spammed by the airport. Sigh.
> >
> > wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?
>
> nobody@ tends to go to /dev/null and is a suitable address.  Some of the
> systems do validate the address is accurate by requiring you to enter
> some information in exchange for their free service.
>
>         the usual rules of if you aren't paying for it, you are the product
> apply, as well as if you can be charged for something, expect it to be the
> case.  (high-end hotels charge for wifi, low-end don't for example).
>
>         - jared
>
> --
> Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net
> clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only mine.
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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On 7/21/19 10:13 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:

> 	the usual rules of if you aren't paying for it, you are the product
> apply, as well as if you can be charged for something, expect it to be the
> case.

This of course, also applies to immigration prioritization programmes,
the cost of all that line-cutting convenience is not just the membership
fees but also having your personal data hoarded by yet more state agencies.

Having said that, got my eyeballs eyeballed for Nexus last time I was in
Montreal, and have to say it worked very well indeed, less than an hour
from aircraft gate to hotel check-in desk, major improvement over
previous Montreal trips.

Keith


From nobody Sun Jul 21 07:29:21 2019
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 07:15:15AM -0700, Lixia Zhang wrote:
> about Uber: I landed after midnight, Uber claimed the rate would be 150%, so I ended up paying a total of CA$55.69 for a YUL to Fairmont ride (about 24min)

	This is 25% higher than the flate rate fare from the cab fyi.

	- jared


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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:26:59AM -0400, Keith Mitchell wrote:
> On 7/21/19 10:13 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> 
> > 	the usual rules of if you aren't paying for it, you are the product
> > apply, as well as if you can be charged for something, expect it to be the
> > case.
> 
> This of course, also applies to immigration prioritization programmes,
> the cost of all that line-cutting convenience is not just the membership
> fees but also having your personal data hoarded by yet more state agencies.

	When you cross international borders different rules tend to apply.

	I've lost this years ago, my data is known to be compromised
and I have the letters from the US OPM to detail that.

> Having said that, got my eyeballs eyeballed for Nexus last time I was in
> Montreal, and have to say it worked very well indeed, less than an hour
> from aircraft gate to hotel check-in desk, major improvement over
> previous Montreal trips.

	Yes, I landed around 2308 and was out by 2317 with NEXUS (no checked
bags).

	- Jared

-- 
Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net
clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only mine.


From nobody Sun Jul 21 07:37:37 2019
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> On 21 Jul 2019, at 15:09, Chris Morrow =
 wrote:
>=20
> wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?

Of course not! I used yours. :-)


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> On 21 Jul 2019, at 15:13, Jared Mauch  wrote:
>=20
> 	the usual rules of if you aren't paying for it, you are the =
product
> apply, as well as if you can be charged for something, expect it to be =
the
> case.

Some airports don't charge (or spam) for wifi - Schiphol for instance. I =
think they've decided you've already paid for through the fees that are =
included in your ticket.


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To: Keith Mitchell 
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> On 21 Jul 2019, at 15:26, Keith Mitchell  wrote:
>=20
> Having said that, got my eyeballs eyeballed for Nexus last time I was =
in
> Montreal, and have to say it worked very well indeed, less than an =
hour
> from aircraft gate to hotel check-in desk, major improvement over
> previous Montreal trips.

Same here - though I didn't register for Nexus or anything like that. =
Last night, there was no queue for the machines which scan your =
passport, take a (biometric?) photo and give you a printout for the =
border goon as you leave. That was my experience last year too.


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--_000_r3joee0bdqsekb8hfa2evop31563721223136emailplusmobileiro_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good news: you don=92t have to check the box to spam the good folks at exam=
ple.com

Bad news: you are still the product - there is CA hacking going on, so assu=
me TLS connections are being intercepted.

=97
Sent from an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind to=
 weird stuff.
Also sent from a government network. Assume everything is archived and revi=
ewable, even if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow. Finally, I=
 haven=92t figured out how to load my signing certificate, so it=92s up to =
you to figure out if this message is really from me. I hope it is.

From: "Jim Reid" >
Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 10:38:05 AM
To: "Chris Morrow" >
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL WiFi



> On 21 Jul 2019, at 15:09, Chris Morrow  wrote:
>
> wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?

Of course not! I used yours. :-)

--
105attendees mailing list
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--_000_r3joee0bdqsekb8hfa2evop31563721223136emailplusmobileiro_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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Good news: you don=92t have to check the box to spam the good folks at=
 example.com







Bad news: you are still the product - there is CA hacking going on, so=
 assume TLS connections are being intercepted. 







=97<=
/span>

Sent from=
 an auto-correcting device with its own mind, so please be kind to weird st=
uff.

Also sent=
 from a government network. Assume everything is archived and reviewable, e=
ven if encrypted, as the key is likely to be in escrow. Finally, I haven=92=
t figured out how to load my signing
 certificate, so it=92s up to you to figure out if this message is really f=
rom me. I hope it is.






From: "Jim Reid" <ji=
m@rfc1035.com>

Date: Sunday, July 21, 2019 at 10:38:05 AM

To: "Chris Morrow" <morrowc=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>

Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL WiFi













> On 21 Jul 2019, at 15:09, Chris Morrow <morrowc=3D40google.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org> wrote:

> 

> wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?


Of course not! I used yours. :-)



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From: Lou Berger 
To: , <105attendees@ietf.org>, "FRRouting-Dev" , "quagga-users" , , , frog 
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Subject: [105attendees] Open source routing @ ietf meetup -- Monday Lunch
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Hi,

We're continuing with the informal Open Source routing @ ietf meetup. 
Anyone interested in joining a "bring your own lunch" gathering of folks 
using/building open source routing code, please drop in to "C2 (21st Floor) 
" on *Monday* during lunch (noon). There is no agenda or slides. Please 
feel free to bring a topic that you'd like to discuss or just come and listen.

Cheers,
Lou


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Hi,<=
/p>








We're continuing with the informal Open Source routing @ ietf meetup. Anyon=
e interested in joining a "bring your own lunch" gathering of folks using/b=
uilding open source routing code, please drop in to "C2 (21st Floor) " on *=
Monday* during lunch (noon). There is no agenda or slides. Please feel free=
 to bring a topic that you'd like to discuss or just come and listen.


Chee=
rs,

Lou






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From: Erik Nygren 
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 12:01:20 -0400
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To: Sean Leonard 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL ground transportation, with kids
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--000000000000aa73af058e3312fd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Most airlines will let you gate-check car seats for free.
There are some light and cheap ones from Cosco that are really good
for travel and then you can plug them into latch connectors in a taxi.

One thing we discovered to be aware of is that most of the Metro stations
lack elevators, or even if they have some elevators they don't go to all
lines.
The green line is particularly bad on this front.
This makes safely navigating the subway with a stroller or wheelchair
problematic to impossible.

   Erik



On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 7:34 PM Sean Leonard  wrote:

> Hi 105ers:
>
> I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going to the
> Fairmont. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the United
> States.
>
> What are the child seat requirements in Canada? What options are there for
> getting from the airport, and the fares?
>
> There is the express bus (which I have taken before) but I do not know how
> the fares will add up with a family (including kids).
>
> Then there are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride
> with car seats before in any country.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sean
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--000000000000aa73af058e3312fd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Most airlines will let you gate-check car seats for free.
<=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">There a=
re some light and cheap ones from Cosco that are really good 
for travel=
 and then you can plug them into latch connectors in a taxi.

<=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">One thi=
ng we discovered to be aware of is that most of the Metro stations
lack elev=
ators, or even if they have some elevators they don't go to all lines.<=
/div>
T=
he green line is particularly bad on this front. 
This makes safely navi=
gating the subway with a stroller or wheelchair 
problematic to impossib=
le.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Erik



=

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 7:34 PM Sean =
Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com<=
/a>> wrote:
H=
i 105ers:



I am coming to YUL tomorrow evening, with two children, going to the Fairmo=
nt. They normally ride with booster and car seats in the United States.



What are the child seat requirements in Canada? What options are there for =
getting from the airport, and the fares?



There is the express bus (which I have taken before) but I do not know how =
the fares will add up with a family (including kids).



Then there are services such as Uber, but I have never requested a ride wit=
h car seats before in any country.



Thanks!



Sean

-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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From: Mingliang Pei 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Social event ticket needed
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Subject: [105attendees] Social event ticket needed
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If anyone has a spare ticket I would like to use one. Thanks, Ming

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If anyone has a spare ticket I would like to=
 use one. Thanks, Ming






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From: John Scudder 
To: Jared Mauch 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Warren Kumari 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Warren Kumari 
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To: John Scudder 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Interesting. I just found this excerpt:

=E2=80=9COnly the Global Entry kiosks located in U.S. preclearance areas at C=
anadian airports will accept a NEXUS card. When entering the U.S. from other=
 airports, you must use your passport to receive NEXUS privileges.=E2=80=9D

I think you just may be fine!

Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 2:14 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Interesting footnote: Per the web sites of the US and Canada governments, a=
s well as TIMATIC, a NEXUS card is acceptable as sole travel document for ai=
r crossing from US to Canada and vice-versa. If I can=E2=80=99t locate my pa=
ssport in the next few hours :-o I will have the opportunity to report wheth=
er this actually works as advertised.
>=20
> =E2=80=94John


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From: John Scudder 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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From nobody Mon Jul 22 03:26:32 2019
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:26:24 +0200 (CEST)
From: Mikael Abrahamsson 
To: Dan York 
cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Want to help remote attendees? Please consider jabber-scribing.
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On Mon, 22 Jul 2019, Dan York wrote:

> All you need is an account on a jabber/XMPP server.

My recommendation is to just jabber scribe through Meetecho. The chat 
window in Meetecho is the jabber room. This avoid having to do anything 
apart from opening a (modern) browser and joining the meetech session. No 
other prerequisites exist really, no special jabber client, no jabber 
account, nothing. The only thing you need is your IETF registration ID 
number.

When I jabber scribe (and I've jabber scribed probably 30-50 sessions) I 
sit down next to the front microphone and as people come up to the mic and 
start talking, I read their name tag and write this into the Meetecho chat 
session. This means there is an audio/visual/text binding between the name 
of the speaker and the sound of the speaker. This also helps the minute 
taker to get the names right.

Being a jabber scribe is easy this way, and for me it makes it easier to 
remember people's names.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se


From nobody Mon Jul 22 05:38:29 2019
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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
From: Brian E Carpenter 
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Subject: [105attendees] Fwd: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
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Hi everybody,

Sorry if you've already seen this, but since some related issues are likely to come up at the plenary session this week, you might find it interesting. There have also been a *lot* of messages on the ietf@ietf.org list recently about the RFC Series Editor situation, but you'll have to look in the list archive for that (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/).

Regards,
    Brian Carpenter

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:19:19 +1200
From: Brian E Carpenter 
Organization: University of Auckland
To: IETF discussion list 

Various recent discussions here have made me think that the IETF is
at a point where some fundamentals in the standards process, the
publication process, and its basic organization need to be re-evaluated
and perhaps changed. The goal of course would be to make the IETF more
useful, not change for its own sake.

It's above my pay grade to decide whether to start an organized
approach to this, but in addition to the two opinion pieces mentioned
below, please also consider this:
https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CommentaryIAB.pdf
This is about the institution, not the people. Please read the opening
disclaimer, and of course comments are welcome, as always.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 20-Jun-19 16:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The first document is early input to the 2019-2020 NomCom and to
> all those thinking of volunteering for it, or for any of the
> open leadership positions:
> 
> Some Thoughts on IETF Community Leadership
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-community-leaders-01
> 
> The second one is also relevant to NomCom, but also to those who
> will be involved in the process of identifying the future RFC Series
> Editor, and to those who care about the IETF standards process in general:
> 
> Request for Comments
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-request-for-comments-01
> 
> Comments are most welcome, but these documents are both personal opinions.
>  
> Regards
>    Brian Carpenter
> 


From nobody Mon Jul 22 05:48:44 2019
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From: Ted Hardie 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 08:48:13 -0400
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To: Brian E Carpenter 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Fwd: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
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--000000000000ce6fdf058e447e4d
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Just to add to Brian's note, this is more than likely, as the IAB is asking
the community specific questions around how to move forward.  The questions
are in the IAB report to the community (
https://www.iab.org/2019/07/18/iab-report-to-the-community-at-ietf-105/);
as that notes, Olaf Kolkman will also present a review of the current RFC
Editor model to help frame some of the timing questions.

regards,

Ted

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:38 AM Brian E Carpenter <
brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Sorry if you've already seen this, but since some related issues are
> likely to come up at the plenary session this week, you might find it
> interesting. There have also been a *lot* of messages on the ietf@ietf.org
> list recently about the RFC Series Editor situation, but you'll have to
> look in the list archive for that (
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/).
>
> Regards,
>     Brian Carpenter
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:19:19 +1200
> From: Brian E Carpenter 
> Organization: University of Auckland
> To: IETF discussion list 
>
> Various recent discussions here have made me think that the IETF is
> at a point where some fundamentals in the standards process, the
> publication process, and its basic organization need to be re-evaluated
> and perhaps changed. The goal of course would be to make the IETF more
> useful, not change for its own sake.
>
> It's above my pay grade to decide whether to start an organized
> approach to this, but in addition to the two opinion pieces mentioned
> below, please also consider this:
> https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CommentaryIAB.pdf
> This is about the institution, not the people. Please read the opening
> disclaimer, and of course comments are welcome, as always.
>
> Regards
>    Brian Carpenter
>
> On 20-Jun-19 16:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The first document is early input to the 2019-2020 NomCom and to
> > all those thinking of volunteering for it, or for any of the
> > open leadership positions:
> >
> > Some Thoughts on IETF Community Leadership
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-community-leaders-01
> >
> > The second one is also relevant to NomCom, but also to those who
> > will be involved in the process of identifying the future RFC Series
> > Editor, and to those who care about the IETF standards process in
> general:
> >
> > Request for Comments
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-request-for-comments-01
> >
> > Comments are most welcome, but these documents are both personal
> opinions.
> >
> > Regards
> >    Brian Carpenter
> >
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--000000000000ce6fdf058e447e4d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Just to add to Brian's note, this is more than li=
kely, as the IAB is asking the community specific questions around how to m=
ove forward.=C2=A0 The questions are in the IAB report to the community (https://www.iab.org/2019/07/18/iab-report-to-the-community-at-ietf-1=
05/); as that notes, Olaf Kolkman will also present a review of the cur=
rent RFC Editor model to help frame some of the timing questions.

regards,

Ted

On Mon, Jul =
22, 2019 at 8:38 AM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everybody,



Sorry if you've already seen this, but since some related issues are li=
kely to come up at the plenary session this week, you might find it interes=
ting. There have also been a *lot* of messages on the ietf@ietf.org list recently about the RFC=
 Series Editor situation, but you'll have to look in the list archive f=
or that (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf=
/).



Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brian Carpenter



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]

Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 16:19:19 +1200

From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>

Organization: University of Auckland

To: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>



Various recent discussions here have made me think that the IETF is

at a point where some fundamentals in the standards process, the

publication process, and its basic organization need to be re-evaluated

and perhaps changed. The goal of course would be to make the IETF more

useful, not change for its own sake.



It's above my pay grade to decide whether to start an organized

approach to this, but in addition to the two opinion pieces mentioned

below, please also consider this:

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/Commentar=
yIAB.pdf

This is about the institution, not the people. Please read the opening

disclaimer, and of course comments are welcome, as always.



Regards

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian Carpenter



On 20-Jun-19 16:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> Hi,

> 

> The first document is early input to the 2019-2020 NomCom and to

> all those thinking of volunteering for it, or for any of the

> open leadership positions:

> 

> Some Thoughts on IETF Community Leadership

> https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-carpenter-community-leaders-01

> 

> The second one is also relevant to NomCom, but also to those who

> will be involved in the process of identifying the future RFC Series
> Editor, and to those who care about the IETF standards process in gene=
ral:

> 

> Request for Comments

> https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-carpenter-request-for-comments-01

> 

> Comments are most welcome, but these documents are both personal opini=
ons.

>=C2=A0 

> Regards

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brian Carpenter

> 



-- 

105attendees mailing list

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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
From: kaname nishizuka 
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If anyone has a spare ticket, I'd like to buy it.

Thanks,
Kaname


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It is perhaps relevant that the IESG/IAB breakfast meetings are in a room has
an extensive disco light system.

The Colab2 space on floor 21st floor has excellent views, so we should
get many far reaching thoughts from the IAB.





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On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:55 AM Michael Richardson  wrote:

> It is perhaps relevant that the IESG/IAB breakfast meetings are in a room
> has
> an extensive disco light system.
>
> The Colab2 space on floor 21st floor has excellent views, so we should
> get many far reaching thoughts from the IAB.
>
>
The IAB breakfast today was in Rue Crescent on the conference level, which
sadly involved no dancing lights or equipment.  I think the OMAC meeting at
the end of the week is in C2, though, so there's another good reason to
have your organization join ISOC.

Ted


>
>
>
> --
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> 105attendees@ietf.org
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On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:55 AM Michael R=
ichardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> =
wrote:
It is perhaps relevant that the IESG/IAB breakfast meetin=
gs are in a room has

an extensive disco light system.



The Colab2 space on floor 21st floor has excellent views, so we should

get many far reaching thoughts from the IAB.



The IAB breakfast today was in Rue Cre=
scent on the conference level, which sadly involved no dancing lights or eq=
uipment.=C2=A0 I think the OMAC meeting at the end of the week is in C2, th=
ough, so there's another good reason to have your organization join ISO=
C.

Ted
=C2=A0







-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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Subject: [105attendees] REMINDER: [dev] Open source routing @ ietf meetup -- Monday Lunch
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REMINDER. "C2 (21st Floor) " on *Monday* during lunch (noon)

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 08:05, Lou Berger  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> We're continuing with the informal Open Source routing @ ietf meetup. Anyo=
ne interested in joining a "bring your own lunch" gathering of folks using/b=
uilding open source routing code, please drop in to "C2 (21st Floor) " on *M=
onday* during lunch (noon). There is no agenda or slides. Please feel free t=
o bring a topic that you'd like to discuss or just come and listen.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Lou
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev@lists.frrouting.org
> https://lists.frrouting.org/listinfo/dev

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REMINDER. "C2 (21st Floor) " on *Monday* during lunch (noon)

On Jul 21, 2019, at 08:05, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:











Hi,

We're continuing with the informal Open Source routing @ ietf meetup. Anyone interested in joining a "bring your own lunch" gathering of folks using/building open source routing code, please drop in to "C2 (21st Floor) " on *Monday* during lunch (noon). There is no agenda or slides. Please feel free to bring a topic that you'd like to discuss or just come and listen.


Cheers,

Lou






_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@lists.frrouting.org
https://lists.frrouting.org/listinfo/dev

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From: "STARK, BARBARA H" 
To: "'Mikael Abrahamsson'" , "'Dan York'" 
CC: "'105attendees@ietf.org'" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Want to help remote attendees? Please consider jabber-scribing.
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> > All you need is an account on a jabber/XMPP server.
>=20
> My recommendation is to just jabber scribe through Meetecho. The chat
> window in Meetecho is the jabber room. This avoid having to do anything
> apart from opening a (modern) browser and joining the meetech session. No
> other prerequisites exist really, no special jabber client, no jabber acc=
ount,
> nothing. The only thing you need is your IETF registration ID number.
>=20
> When I jabber scribe (and I've jabber scribed probably 30-50 sessions) I =
sit
> down next to the front microphone and as people come up to the mic and
> start talking, I read their name tag and write this into the Meetecho cha=
t
> session. This means there is an audio/visual/text binding between the nam=
e
> of the speaker and the sound of the speaker. This also helps the minute
> taker to get the names right.
>=20
> Being a jabber scribe is easy this way, and for me it makes it easier to
> remember people's names.

Just be absolutely sure you know how to and make every attempt to mute your=
 laptop speaker __before__ doing this.
Barbara


From nobody Mon Jul 22 07:19:03 2019
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:18:52 -0400
From: John C Klensin 
To: Ted Hardie , Brian E Carpenter 
cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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--On Monday, July 22, 2019 08:48 -0400 Ted Hardie
 wrote:

> Just to add to Brian's note, this is more than likely, as the
> IAB is asking the community specific questions around how to
> move forward.  The questions are in the IAB report to the
> community (
> https://www.iab.org/2019/07/18/iab-report-to-the-community-at-
> ietf-105/); as that notes, Olaf Kolkman will also present a
> review of the current RFC Editor model to help frame some of
> the timing questions.

Ted,

I didn't see any substantive questions other than whether to
appoint (acting?) RSE and then start thinking through the role
or to try to just move forward with a selection process there.
Were those the questions you had in mind.

I am glad you said "asking the community" rather than "doing a
survey", but some of the same issues apply.   As others have
pointed out several times, the RFC Series (and hence the ISE)
serve much of the broader Internet Community, not just the IETF.
FWIW, one theory about the role of the IAB is that it is
supposed to serve  the broader Internet community too although I
think we sometimes loose sight of that (and the IEtF-centered
selection process doesn't help).  At least without a great deal
of caution, a survey to collect opinions is only as good as the
population being asked and how well those who respond represent
that population.  "Asking the community" isn't much better:
unless the IAB is just interested in confirming what it already
believes -- and I assume that is not the case-- the usefulness
of "asking the community" is only as useful as the parts of the
community you choose to ask and who answers and how.  In
particular, if "ask the community" is really going to be "ask
around the IETF", then those other parts of the Internet
Community who benefit from the RFC Series are effectively
disenfranchised.

I was very strongly reminded last Tuesday just how small of a
fraction of the Internet community, even the portion of the
community that is interested in the Internet's protocols or how
they are applied in practice, IETF participants represent.  If
the IETF (not just the RFE Series) are going to remain relevant,
I think we need to pay significant attention to that.

The other problem, as Brian, I, and others, have pointed out is
that the RSE position is a very specialized job, one into which
it would be no more reasonable to drop someone whose skill set
is in network engineering than it would be to expect the
managing editor of, say, a biochemistry journal to be able to
step into the IAB or IETF Chair roles or even to start designing
network protocols (unless he or she had considerable network
engineering background and experience in addition to their
biochemistry one).  I assume and hope that Olaf will explain
that in more detail on Wednesday.

I'd lay good odds that, before the recent discussions broke out,
only a small fraction of IETF participants had given any real
thought to the role of the RSE and that many were only vaguely
aware that it existed.  If that awareness level has risen,
perhaps that is a good consequence of this otherwise bad
situation.  However, it suggests that, at least in addition to
asking the community, you should be seeking out people with real
expertise and/or history and asking them rather than either
assuming that advice can come from general asking of the
community or that sufficient expertise in those matters exists
within the IAB or the present RSOC.

best,
   john


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From: Ted Hardie 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:04:18 -0400
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To: John C Klensin , IETF 
Cc: Brian E Carpenter , 105attendees@ietf.org
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--0000000000007ed467058e4665d3
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Hi John,

I've added the ietf list, since the issue you raised includes those who are
not attendees.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:18 AM John C Klensin  wrote:

>
>
> --On Monday, July 22, 2019 08:48 -0400 Ted Hardie
>  wrote:
>
> > Just to add to Brian's note, this is more than likely, as the
> > IAB is asking the community specific questions around how to
> > move forward.  The questions are in the IAB report to the
> > community (
> > https://www.iab.org/2019/07/18/iab-report-to-the-community-at-
> > ietf-105/); as that notes, Olaf Kolkman will also present a
> > review of the current RFC Editor model to help frame some of
> > the timing questions.
>
> Ted,
>
> I didn't see any substantive questions other than whether to
> appoint (acting?) RSE and then start thinking through the role
> or to try to just move forward with a selection process there.
> Were those the questions you had in mind.
>
>
The choice laid out in the IAB report is:  should we delay issuing an RFP
until community discussion on the RFC Editor model has moved further along,
or should we issue an RFP now?  The current model already gives an RSE
responsibility for evolution of the series, so recruiting one with a strong
early focus on the evolution of the model is within the current model.

The current SOW has been shared with the community to allow comment on it
to proceed in parallel, should the community not wish to delay issuing and
RFP.  The IAB's intent is to continue soliciting discussion on the larger
point at least through the time the SOW is under discussion.  Having a few
hundred people in a room does, of course give some opportunity to get the
discussion going, but it will not be the end of it.


> I am glad you said "asking the community" rather than "doing a
> survey", but some of the same issues apply.   As others have
> pointed out several times, the RFC Series (and hence the ISE)
> serve much of the broader Internet Community, not just the IETF.
> FWIW, one theory about the role of the IAB is that it is
> supposed to serve  the broader Internet community too although I
> think we sometimes loose sight of that (and the IEtF-centered
> selection process doesn't help).  At least without a great deal
> of caution, a survey to collect opinions is only as good as the
> population being asked and how well those who respond represent
> that population.  "Asking the community" isn't much better:
> unless the IAB is just interested in confirming what it already
> believes -- and I assume that is not the case-- the usefulness
> of "asking the community" is only as useful as the parts of the
> community you choose to ask and who answers and how.  In
> particular, if "ask the community" is really going to be "ask
> around the IETF", then those other parts of the Internet
> Community who benefit from the RFC Series are effectively
> disenfranchised.
>
>
I encourage you to share the question beyond the IETF and IRTF, and the IAB
would be happy to work with you or others on structuring the message,
should it need re-framing for those audiences.

Even within the communities we have already heard from, the breadth of
opinion of what to do from here is substantial.  The only universal is that
we all regret Heather's decision.  Beyond that, the range of ideas shared
with me has included:

* make this a NomCom appointed position
* make this an employee of the IETF LLC, who has no contract term
* make this position a long term contract, in a model similar to judicial
appointments
* merge this position with the ISE role to reinforce the need for technical
judgement
* eliminate this position entirely
* retain the position largely as described, but make the RSOC NomCom
appointed
* focus this position on libraries and publication venues and recruit with
that focus
* retain this position but remove the oversight of the RFC Production
Center and RFC Publisher (with many variants of what that means for other
relationships)
* retain this position but make it more junior and more overseen by
community members

I am pretty sure that this is only a selection of the ideas out there.
That breadth is part of why the choices we're asking about are only about
how to order the community discussion and the recruiting process; we are
sure that a larger community discussion is needed.


> I was very strongly reminded last Tuesday just how small of a
> fraction of the Internet community, even the portion of the
> community that is interested in the Internet's protocols or how
> they are applied in practice, IETF participants represent.  If
> the IETF (not just the RFE Series) are going to remain relevant,
> I think we need to pay significant attention to that.
>
> The other problem, as Brian, I, and others, have pointed out is
> that the RSE position is a very specialized job, one into which
> it would be no more reasonable to drop someone whose skill set
> is in network engineering than it would be to expect the
> managing editor of, say, a biochemistry journal to be able to
> step into the IAB or IETF Chair roles or even to start designing
> network protocols (unless he or she had considerable network
> engineering background and experience in addition to their
> biochemistry one).  I assume and hope that Olaf will explain
> that in more detail on Wednesday.
>
> I'd lay good odds that, before the recent discussions broke out,
> only a small fraction of IETF participants had given any real
> thought to the role of the RSE and that many were only vaguely
> aware that it existed.  If that awareness level has risen,
> perhaps that is a good consequence of this otherwise bad
> situation.


I appreciate the kindness in suggesting a silver lining here.


> However, it suggests that, at least in addition to
> asking the community, you should be seeking out people with real
> expertise and/or history and asking them rather than either
> assuming that advice can come from general asking of the
> community or that sufficient expertise in those matters exists
> within the IAB or the present RSOC.
>
>
I cannot tell you how may times I have missed Joyce's wise counsel in these
past weeks.  As the first person to be recruited to join Jon and the first
to succeed him, I have read and re-read her text in RFC 2555, along with
Jake's, Bob's, Steve's,  and Vint's.  But I think we are honestly at a
moment where we must both look back and look forward.  The ecosystem in
which this series came to be has changed and, as you note, the community
has grown well beyond the borders of the IETF's halls.  That has left me
grateful that Leslie in RFC 4844 and Olaf in RFC 6635 clearly envisioned
change:

  This document, and the resulting structures, will be modified as
   needed through normal procedures.  The RSE, and the IAB, through the
   RFC Oversight Committee (see Section 3.1
), will continue to
monitor
   discussions within the community about potential adjustments to the
   RFC Editor model and recognize that the process described in this
   document may need to be adjusted to align with any changes that
   result from such discussions; hence, the version number in the title.

While it is possible that the discussion will end with a long-term
retention of the current model, I must say that I honestly expect change.

best regards,

Ted Hardie


best,
>    john
>
>

--0000000000007ed467058e4665d3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi John,

I&#=
39;ve added the ietf list, since the issue you raised includes those who ar=
e not attendees.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:18 AM John C Klensin =
<john@jck.com> wrote:




--On Monday, July 22, 2019 08:48 -0400 Ted Hardie

<ted.ietf@gmail.=
com> wrote:



> Just to add to Brian's note, this is more than likely, as the

> IAB is asking the community specific questions around how to

> move forward.=C2=A0 The questions are in the IAB report to the

> community (

> https://www.iab.org/2019/07/18/ia=
b-report-to-the-community-at-

> ietf-105/); as that notes, Olaf Kolkman will also present a

> review of the current RFC Editor model to help frame some of

> the timing questions.



Ted,



I didn't see any substantive questions other than whether to

appoint (acting?) RSE and then start thinking through the role

or to try to just move forward with a selection process there.

Were those the questions you had in mind.



The choice laid out in the IAB report =
is:=C2=A0 should we delay issuing an RFP until community discussion on the =
RFC Editor model has moved further along, or should we issue an RFP now?=C2=
=A0 The current model already gives an RSE responsibility for evolution of =
the series, so recruiting one with a strong early focus on the evolution of=
 the model is within the current model. 

The c=
urrent SOW has been shared with the community to allow comment on it to pro=
ceed in parallel, should the community not wish to delay issuing and RFP.=
=C2=A0 The IAB's intent is to continue soliciting discussion on the lar=
ger point at least through the time the SOW is under discussion.=C2=A0 Havi=
ng a few hundred people in a room does, of course give some opportunity to =
get the discussion going, but it will not be the end of it.
=
=C2=A0

I am glad you said "asking the community" rather than "doing=
 a

survey", but some of the same issues apply.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As others have=


pointed out several times, the RFC Series (and hence the ISE)

serve much of the broader Internet Community, not just the IETF.

FWIW, one theory about the role of the IAB is that it is

supposed to serve=C2=A0 the broader Internet community too although I

think we sometimes loose sight of that (and the IEtF-centered

selection process doesn't help).=C2=A0 At least without a great deal
of caution, a survey to collect opinions is only as good as the

population being asked and how well those who respond represent

that population.=C2=A0 "Asking the community" isn't much bett=
er:

unless the IAB is just interested in confirming what it already

believes -- and I assume that is not the case-- the usefulness

of "asking the community" is only as useful as the parts of the
community you choose to ask and who answers and how.=C2=A0 In

particular, if "ask the community" is really going to be "as=
k

around the IETF", then those other parts of the Internet

Community who benefit from the RFC Series are effectively

disenfranchised.



I encourage you to share the question =
beyond the IETF and IRTF, and the IAB would be happy to work with you or ot=
hers on structuring the message, should it need re-framing for those audien=
ces.=C2=A0 

Even within the communities we hav=
e already heard from, the breadth of opinion of what to do from here is sub=
stantial.=C2=A0 The only universal is that we all regret Heather's deci=
sion.=C2=A0 Beyond that, the range of ideas shared with me has included:

* make this a NomCom appointed position
* =
make this an employee of the IETF LLC, who has no contract term 
<=
div>* make this position a long term contract, in a model similar to judici=
al appointments
* merge this position with the ISE role to re=
inforce the need for technical judgement
* eliminate this pos=
ition entirely
* retain the position largely as described, but ma=
ke the RSOC NomCom appointed
* focus this position on libraries a=
nd publication venues and recruit with that focus
* retain th=
is position but remove the oversight of the RFC Production Center and RFC P=
ublisher (with many variants of what that means for other relationships)
* retain this position but make it more junior and more oversee=
n by community members

I am pretty sure that this =
is only a selection of the ideas out there.=C2=A0 That breadth is part of w=
hy the choices we're asking about are only about how to order the commu=
nity discussion and the recruiting process; we are sure that a larger commu=
nity discussion is needed.
=C2=A0

I was very strongly reminded last Tuesday just how small of a

fraction of the Internet community, even the portion of the

community that is interested in the Internet's protocols or how

they are applied in practice, IETF participants represent.=C2=A0 If

the IETF (not just the RFE Series) are going to remain relevant,

I think we need to pay significant attention to that.



The other problem, as Brian, I, and others, have pointed out is

that the RSE position is a very specialized job, one into which

it would be no more reasonable to drop someone whose skill set

is in network engineering than it would be to expect the

managing editor of, say, a biochemistry journal to be able to

step into the IAB or IETF Chair roles or even to start designing

network protocols (unless he or she had considerable network

engineering background and experience in addition to their

biochemistry one).=C2=A0 I assume and hope that Olaf will explain

that in more detail on Wednesday.



I'd lay good odds that, before the recent discussions broke out,

only a small fraction of IETF participants had given any real

thought to the role of the RSE and that many were only vaguely

aware that it existed.=C2=A0 If that awareness level has risen,

perhaps that is a good consequence of this otherwise bad

situation.=C2=A0 

I appreciate the kindness=
 in suggesting a silver lining here.
=C2=A0
However, it suggests that, at least i=
n addition to

asking the community, you should be seeking out people with real

expertise and/or history and asking them rather than either

assuming that advice can come from general asking of the

community or that sufficient expertise in those matters exists

within the IAB or the present RSOC.



I cannot tell you how may times I have=
 missed Joyce's wise counsel in these past weeks.=C2=A0 As the first pe=
rson to be recruited to join Jon and the first to succeed him, I have read =
and re-read her text in RFC 2555, along with Jake's, Bob's, Steve&#=
39;s,=C2=A0 and Vint's.=C2=A0 But I think we are honestly at a moment w=
here we must both look back and look forward.=C2=A0 The ecosystem in which =
this series came to be has changed and, as you note, the community has grow=
n well beyond the borders of the IETF's halls.=C2=A0 That has left me g=
rateful that Leslie in RFC 4844 and Olaf in RFC 6635 clearly envisioned cha=
nge:

  This document,=
 and the resulting structures, will be modified as
   needed through normal procedures.  The RSE, and the IAB, through the
   RFC Oversight Committee (see Section 3.1), will continue to monitor
   discussions within the community about potential adjustments to the
   RFC Editor model and recognize that the process described in this
   document may need to be adjusted to align with any changes that
   result from such discussions; hence, the version number in the title.

While it is possible that the discussion will end with a l=
ong-term retention of the current model, I must say that I honestly expect =
change.

best regards,

Ted=
 Hardie



best,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0john






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In-Reply-To: 
From: Ted Hardie 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:14:19 -0400
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To: John C Klensin , IETF 
Cc: Brian E Carpenter , 105attendees@ietf.org
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On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:04 AM Ted Hardie  wrote:

>  That has left me grateful that Leslie in RFC 4844 and Olaf in RFC 6635
> clearly envisioned change:
>
>
It was pointed out to me offline that I left out Joel Halpern's role as
editor of RFC 6635 in making the statement above.  My apologies for the
ommission,

regards,

Ted

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On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:04 AM Ted Hard=
ie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wro=
te:
=C2=A0That has left me grateful that Leslie=
 in RFC 4844 and Olaf in RFC 6635 clearly envisioned change:


It was pointed=
 out to me offline that I left out Joel Halpern's role as editor of RFC=
 6635 in making the statement above.=C2=A0 My apologies for the ommission,<=
/div>

regards,

Ted 


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To: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to a side 
meeting?

One that has a non-wg mailing list?

This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.

thanks


-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------F1E2B43E91FD9961AC1E30AC
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    Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to a
    side meeting?

    

    One that has a non-wg mailing list?

    

    This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.

    

    thanks

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


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If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able to log in to
Datatracker, find the session URL like this and upload a "suggested" deck
that chairs can approve:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/pearg

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:34 AM Robert Moskowitz 
wrote:

> Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to a side
> meeting?
>
> One that has a non-wg mailing list?
>
> This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.
>
> thanks
>
>
> --
> Robert Moskowitz
> Owner
> HTT Consulting
> C:      248-219-2059
> F:      248-968-2824
> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>
> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets
> the credit
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>


-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
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If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able=
 to log in to Datatracker, find the session URL like this and upload a &quo=
t;suggested" deck that chairs can approve:

https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/pearg

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019=
 at 11:34 AM Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote:

 =20

   =20
 =20
  

    Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to =
a
    side meeting?

    

    One that has a non-wg mailing list?

    

    This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.

    

    thanks

    

    

    
-- 

     =20
     =20
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-219-2059

      
        F:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-968-2824

      
        E:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy &=
; Technology [https://www=
.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.882=
5, pgp: https:=
//josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 =C2=
=A01607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871



--00000000000002b864058e46dd72--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 08:41:26 2019
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To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
References:  
From: Robert Moskowitz 
Message-ID: <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:41:03 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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This side meeting is not related to any scheduled session, so that is 
not an option.

It is just a small effort for me to put them on my server and provide 
the URL.  I just would like something within the IETF for these.

On 7/22/19 11:37 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able to log in to 
> Datatracker, find the session URL like this and upload a "suggested" 
> deck that chairs can approve:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/pearg
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:34 AM Robert Moskowitz 
> > wrote:
>
>     Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to a
>     side meeting?
>
>     One that has a non-wg mailing list?
>
>     This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.
>
>     thanks
>
>
>     -- 
>     Robert Moskowitz
>     Owner
>     HTT Consulting
>     C: 248-219-2059
>     F: 248-968-2824
>     E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com 
>
>     There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter
>     who gets the credit
>     -- 
>     105attendees mailing list
>     105attendees@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
>
>
> -- 
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology 
> [https://www.cdt.org]
> 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
> e: joe@cdt.org , p: 202.407.8825, pgp: 
> https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
> Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------8B726EF348A9A86E81332141
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    This side meeting is not related to any scheduled session, so that
    is not an option.

    

    It is just a small effort for me to put them on my server and
    provide the URL.  I just would like something within the IETF for
    these.

    

    
On 7/22/19 11:37 AM, Joseph Lorenzo
      Hall wrote:

    

    

      
      

        
If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able to
          log in to Datatracker, find the session URL like this and
          upload a "suggested" deck that chairs can approve:

        


        

        
      

      

      

        
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:34
          AM Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
          wrote:

        

        

          
 Is there a 'standard' approved place
            to post slides related to a side meeting?

            

            One that has a non-wg mailing list?

            

            This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.

            

            thanks

            

            

            
-- 

              Robert Moskowitz

               Owner

               HTT Consulting

              C:      248-219-2059

               F:      248-968-2824

               E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

              

               There's no limit to what
                can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the
                credit

            

          

          -- 

          105attendees mailing list

          105attendees@ietf.org

          https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

        

      

      

      

      -- 

      

        

          

            

              

                

                  
Joseph Lorenzo Hall

                    Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy &
                    Technology [https://www.cdt.org]

                    1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497

                    e: joe@cdt.org, p:
                    202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key

                    Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86
                    6987 40A9 A871

                  

                  

                

              

            

          

        

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
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Just to +1 on Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have slides for an unofficial side =
meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.

=20

mark

=20

Mark McFadden

Principal Consultant

  =
mark@internetpolicyadvisors.co.uk

=20



=20

=20

From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Robert =
Moskowitz
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:41 AM
To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings

=20

This side meeting is not related to any scheduled session, so that is =
not an option.

It is just a small effort for me to put them on my server and provide =
the URL.  I just would like something within the IETF for these.

On 7/22/19 11:37 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:

If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able to log in to =
Datatracker, find the session URL like this and upload a "suggested" =
deck that chairs can approve:

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/pearg

=20

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:34 AM Robert Moskowitz =
 > wrote:

Is there a 'standard' approved place to post slides related to a side =
meeting?

One that has a non-wg mailing list?

This is for tm-rid today during PM3 slot.

thanks



--=20
Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com =20

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who =
gets the credit

--=20
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org =20
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



--=20

Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology =
[https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org  , p: 202.407.8825, pgp: =
https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871

=20

=20

--=20
Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com =20

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who =
gets the credit


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Standard
Just to +1 on =
Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have slides for an unofficial side meeting that I =
would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
 
mark
 
Mark McFadden
Principal =
Consultant
mark@internetpolicyadvisors.co.uk=

 
3D"cid:image003.png@01D39F78.1EB756A0"
 
 
From: 105attendees =
<105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Robert =
Moskowitz
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:41 AM
To: =
Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Cc: 105 attendees =
<105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] =
Posting slides for side meetings
 
This side meeting is not related to any =
scheduled session, so that is not an option.

It is just a small =
effort for me to put them on my server and provide the URL.  I just =
would like something within the IETF for these.
On 7/22/19 11:37 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall =
wrote:
If there is a 105 session assigned you should be able =
to log in to Datatracker, find the session URL like this and upload a =
"suggested" deck that chairs can =
approve:
 
 
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:34 AM Robert Moskowitz =
<rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>=
 wrote:
Is there a 'standard' approved place to =
post slides related to a side meeting?

One that has a non-wg =
mailing list?

This is for tm-rid today during PM3 =
slot.

thanks

-- =

Robert =
Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:    =
;  248-219-2059
F: &=
nbsp;    248-968-2824
E: &=
nbsp;    rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit =
to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the =
credit
-- =

105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees<=
o:p>


-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for =
Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, =
Washington DC 20005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: =
3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 =
A871
 
 
-- 
Robert =
Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:    =
;  248-219-2059
F: &=
nbsp;    248-968-2824
E: &=
nbsp;    rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
=

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter =
who gets the credit

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From nobody Mon Jul 22 09:10:59 2019
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Hi,

I am looking for an unwanted ticket for social event. If you have one, =
please PM me.


--
Best,
Sergey=


From nobody Mon Jul 22 09:36:33 2019
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On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:

> Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side 
> meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.

Please, no.

Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF 
doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use 
an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of 
support.

We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the 
URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.

--Paul Hoffman


From nobody Mon Jul 22 09:53:44 2019
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To: Paul Hoffman , 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
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From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:53:24 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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--------------0048F2EC4346E7A7F9EB7DA5
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And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.

If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.

No biggie.

Bob

On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
>
>> Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side 
>> meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
>
> Please, no.
>
> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF 
> doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them 
> use an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of 
> support.
>
> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine 
> the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.
>
> --Paul Hoffman
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------0048F2EC4346E7A7F9EB7DA5
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    And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.

    

    If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.

    

    No biggie.

    

    Bob

    

    
On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman
      wrote:

    

    
On 22 Jul
      2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
      

      

      
Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides
        for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted
        on the IETF webspace.
        

      

      

      Please, no.
      

      

      Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF
      doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let
      them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other
      expectation of support.
      

      

      We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to
      determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the
      meeting.
      

      

      --Paul Hoffman
      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------0048F2EC4346E7A7F9EB7DA5--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:06:11 2019
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From: Ted Lemon 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:06:05 -0400
Cc: Paul Hoffman , 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
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References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com>
To: Robert Moskowitz 
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz  w=
rote:
>=20
> And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.
>=20
> If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.
>=20
> No biggie.
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>> On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:=20
>>=20
>>> Just to +1 on Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have slides for an unofficial side m=
eeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.=20
>>=20
>> Please, no.=20
>>=20
>> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doesn't=
 help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an unused m=
eeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.=20
>>=20
>> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the U=
RLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.=20
>>=20
>> --Paul Hoffman=20
>>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Robert Moskowitz
> Owner
> HTT Consulting
> C:      248-219-2059
> F:      248-968-2824
> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>=20
> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets=
 the credit
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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I think it would make sense to add a wiki p=
age. 

Sent from my iP=
hone

On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowit=
z <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote:


 =20
    
 =20
 =20
    And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.

    

    If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.

    

    No biggie.

    

    Bob

    

    
On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman
      wrote:

    

    
On 22 Jul
      2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
      

      

      
Just to +1 on Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have sli=
des
        for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted
        on the IETF webspace.
        

      

      

      Please, no.
      

      

      Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF
      doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let
      them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other
      expectation of support.
      

      

      We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to
      determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the
      meeting.
      

      

      --Paul Hoffman
      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:   &nbs=
p;  248-968-2824

      
        E:   &nbs=
p;  rgm@labs.htt-co=
nsult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

 =20


=

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To: Ted Lemon , Robert Moskowitz 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter 
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 05:18:55 +1200
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:
> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears to b=
e editable.

    Brian

>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz > wrote:
>=20
>> And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.
>>
>> If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.
>>
>> No biggie.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just to +1 on Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have slides for an unofficial si=
de meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
>>>
>>> Please, no.
>>>
>>> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doe=
sn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an u=
nused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.
>>>
>>> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine t=
he URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.
>>>
>>> --Paul Hoffman
>>>
>>
>> --=20
>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>> Owner
>> HTT Consulting
>> C:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-219-2059
>> F:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-968-2824
>> E:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>
>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who =
gets the credit
>> --=20
>> 105attendees mailing list
>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>=20


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:36:17 2019
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From: Sean Leonard 
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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
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Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho or aud=
io streams. How can remote participants? I would like to see/hear secdispatc=
h but it=E2=80=99s not obvious at this time how to experience the live proce=
edings.

https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/

Thanks,

Sean

--Apple-Mail-8EC3D2F1-CD02-4715-AF59-048A2917032B
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Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link t=
o Place du Canada meetecho or audio streams. How can remote participants? I w=
ould like to see/hear secdispatch but it=E2=80=99s not obvious at this time h=
ow to experience the live proceedings.


Thanks,

Sean
=

--Apple-Mail-8EC3D2F1-CD02-4715-AF59-048A2917032B--


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From: Tommy Jensen 
To: Sean Leonard , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
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Hey Sean,

I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/

Thanks,
Tommy
________________________________
From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sean Leonar=
d 
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM
To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio

Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho or au=
dio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to see/hear secdispa=
tch but it=92s not obvious at this time how to experience the live proceedi=
ngs.

https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/

Thanks,

Sean

--_000_MN2PR21MB121376942D427052625931CCFAC40MN2PR21MB1213namp_
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Hey Sean,









I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/









Thanks,



Tommy






From: 105attendees <105a=
ttendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@se=
antek.com>

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM

To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>

Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio

 




Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Can=
ada meetecho or audio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to=
 see/hear secdispatch but it=92s not obvious at this time how to experience=
 the live proceedings.












Thanks,







Sean








--_000_MN2PR21MB121376942D427052625931CCFAC40MN2PR21MB1213namp_--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:43:33 2019
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To: Brian E Carpenter , Ted Lemon 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com> 
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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Yes.  Just as I edited it to put in our side meeting.  But it does not 
provide an IETF place for slides.  Only announcement of side meetings 
and room reservation.

Kudos to the team in putting this together.

On 7/22/19 1:18 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:
>> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears to be editable.
>
>      Brian
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz > wrote:
>>
>>> And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.
>>>
>>> If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.
>>>
>>> No biggie.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
>>>> Please, no.
>>>>
>>>> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.
>>>>
>>>> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.
>>>>
>>>> --Paul Hoffman
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>>> Owner
>>> HTT Consulting
>>> C:      248-219-2059
>>> F:      248-968-2824
>>> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>>
>>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
>>> -- 
>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

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    Yes.  Just as I edited it to put in our side meeting.  But it does
    not provide an IETF place for slides.  Only announcement of side
    meetings and room reservation.

    

    Kudos to the team in putting this together.

    

    
On 7/22/19 1:18 PM, Brian E Carpenter
      wrote:

    

    

      
On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:


      

        
I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.


      

      
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears to be editable.

    Brian



      

        
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com <mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>> wrote:



        

          
And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.

If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.

No biggie.

Bob

On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:


          

            
On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:



            

              
Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.


            

            
Please, no.

Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.

We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.

--Paul Hoffman



          

          
-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
-- 
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org <mailto:105attendees@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


        

        

      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------98AA72D5882568858C691ED6--


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I don=E2=80=99t see it. Perhaps it=E2=80=99s because I=E2=80=99m on iOS 12, a=
nd Safari is not meetecho compatible so the links are hidden?

Regardless, the audio stream would be sufficient...if there is in fact one (=
which I do not see).

Sean

> On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:40 AM, Tommy Jensen  w=
rote:
>=20
> Hey Sean,
>=20
> I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/
>=20
> Thanks,
> Tommy
> From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sean Leona=
rd 
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM
> To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>
> Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
> =20
> Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho or a=
udio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to see/hear secdispa=
tch but it=E2=80=99s not obvious at this time how to experience the live pro=
ceedings.
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Sean

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I don=E2=80=99t see it. Perhaps it=E2=80=99=
s because I=E2=80=99m on iOS 12, and Safari is not meetecho compatible so th=
e links are hidden?

Regardless, the audio stream would be=
 sufficient...if there is in fact one (which I do not see).

Sean

On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:40 AM, Tommy Je=
nsen <Jensen.Thomas@micros=
oft.com> wrote:









Hey Sean,









I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/









Thanks,



Tommy






From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org=
> on behalf of Sean Leonard <d=
ev+ietf@seantek.com>

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM

To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>=


Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio

 




Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Cana=
da meetecho or audio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to s=
ee/hear secdispatch but it=E2=80=99s not obvious at this time how to experie=
nce the live proceedings.












Thanks,







Sean








=

--Apple-Mail-419C212E-4C26-4C56-8AEF-BC84BF250FEA--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:47:14 2019
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From: Henk Birkholz 
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http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/secdispatch/ works for me

On 7/22/19 7:33 PM, Sean Leonard wrote:
> Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho or 
> audio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to see/hear 
> secdispatch but it’s not obvious at this time how to experience the live 
> proceedings.
> 
> https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sean
> 


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:48:36 2019
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From: Khatra Barabad 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:48:29 -0400
In-Reply-To: 
Cc: Tommy Jensen , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
To: Sean Leonard 
References: <943494C7-F10A-4E9F-A5BF-B2267DA8B81A@seantek.com>  
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	charset=utf-8

We are sending MeetEcho to this room to assist.

Thanks,=20

Kat Barabad, IETF Meeting & Events Planner
Association Management Solutions, LLC
Email: kbarabad@amsl.com 
Office: +1.510.492.4083=20

> On Jul 22, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Sean Leonard  =
wrote:
>=20
> I don=E2=80=99t see it. Perhaps it=E2=80=99s because I=E2=80=99m on =
iOS 12, and Safari is not meetecho compatible so the links are hidden?
>=20
> Regardless, the audio stream would be sufficient...if there is in fact =
one (which I do not see).
>=20
> Sean
>=20
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:40 AM, Tommy Jensen =
> =
wrote:
>=20
>> Hey Sean,
>>=20
>> I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/ =

>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Tommy
>> From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org =
> on behalf of Sean Leonard =
>
>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM
>> To: 105attendees@ietf.org  =
<105attendees@ietf.org >
>> Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
>> =20
>> Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho =
or audio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to see/hear =
secdispatch but it=E2=80=99s not obvious at this time how to experience =
the live proceedings.
>>=20
>> https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/ =

>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Sean
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


--Apple-Mail=_C44C9D71-BFAA-455D-B246-3A6976F5E15E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

We =
are sending MeetEcho to this room to assist.

Thanks, 



Kat Barabad, IETF Meeting & Events Planner
Association Management Solutions, LLC
Email: kbarabad@amsl.com
Office: =
+1.510.492.4083 





On Jul 22, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com> wrote:

I don=E2=80=99t see it. Perhaps =
it=E2=80=99s because I=E2=80=99m on iOS 12, and Safari is not meetecho =
compatible so the links are hidden?

Regardless, the audio stream would be =
sufficient...if there is in fact one (which I do not see).

Sean

On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:40 AM, =
Tommy Jensen <Jensen.Thomas@microsoft.com> wrote:









Hey Sean,









I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that =
helps: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/









Thanks,



Tommy






From: =
105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sean =
Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM

To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>

Subject: [105attendees] Place du Canada =
meetecho/audio

 




Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link =
to Place du Canada meetecho or audio streams. How can remote =
participants? I would like to see/hear secdispatch but it=E2=80=99s not =
obvious at this time how to experience the live proceedings.






https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/







Thanks,







Sean








-- 
105attendees mailing =
list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

=

--Apple-Mail=_C44C9D71-BFAA-455D-B246-3A6976F5E15E--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 10:48:43 2019
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From: Henk Birkholz 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:48:24 +0200
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It is not listed on mobile versions of the html agenda - at least not 
for me. Had to pull the traditional site version.

On 7/22/19 7:44 PM, Sean Leonard wrote:
> I don’t see it. Perhaps it’s because I’m on iOS 12, and Safari is not 
> meetecho compatible so the links are hidden?
> 
> Regardless, the audio stream would be sufficient...if there is in fact 
> one (which I do not see).
> 
> Sean
> 
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:40 AM, Tommy Jensen  > wrote:
> 
>> Hey Sean,
>>
>> I see a MeetEcho link to that session on this page if that helps: 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tommy
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org 
>> > on behalf of Sean Leonard 
>> >
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2019 10:33 AM
>> *To:* 105attendees@ietf.org  
>> <105attendees@ietf.org >
>> *Subject:* [105attendees] Place du Canada meetecho/audio
>> Hi, the tools agenda does not have a link to Place du Canada meetecho 
>> or audio streams. How can remote participants? I would like to 
>> see/hear secdispatch but it’s not obvious at this time how to 
>> experience the live proceedings.
>>
>> https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/105/ 
>> 
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sean
> 


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Subject: [105attendees] social event ticket needed
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From: Carsten Bormann 
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Cc: Robert Moskowitz , 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
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To: Ted Lemon 
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On Jul 22, 2019, at 13:06, Ted Lemon  wrote:
>=20
> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.=20

So I did:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105side-slides

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Hello,

Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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Hello,


Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.




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From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:00:20 2019
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From: Michayla Newcombe 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:59:59 -0400
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I'm also in need of a ticket if anyone has an extra.

Best Regards,
Michayla

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:51 PM Giovane Moura  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a social event ticket.
>
> Please drop me a line please if you have one.
>
> thanks,
>
> /giovane
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

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I'm also in need of a ticket if an=
yone has an extra.

Best Regards,
Michayl=
a

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:51 PM Giovane Moura <giovane.moura=3D40sidn.nl@dmarc.ietf.org> =
wrote:
Hi,



I'm looking for a social event ticket.



Please drop me a line please if you have one.



thanks,



/giovane

-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

at the bottom of that page

On 7/22/19 7:55 PM, Stephen Mugisha wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.
> 
> 


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From: Geoffrey Holan 
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From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:06:52 2019
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To: Carsten Bormann , Ted Lemon 
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From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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File size limit of 2MB which is not hard to exceed with a couple images 
in the slides.  One I want to upload is only 2.8MB...

On 7/22/19 1:57 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 13:06, Ted Lemon  wrote:
>> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.
> So I did:
>
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105side-slides
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>

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    File size limit of 2MB which is not hard to exceed with a couple
    images in the slides.  One I want to upload is only 2.8MB...

    

    
On 7/22/19 1:57 PM, Carsten Bormann
      wrote:

    

    

      
On Jul 22, 2019, at 13:06, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:


      

        
I think it would make sense to add a wiki page. 


      

      
So I did:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105side-slides

Grüße, Carsten



    

    

    
-- 

      
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      Robert Moskowitz

      
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      C:      248-219-2059

      
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        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


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For those who want it, I figured I=E2=80=99d share this, since it=E2=80=99=
s a bit hard to find around here.   Tunnel Coffee is in the tunnel =
between Place de Ville Marie and the Eaton Center.   It=E2=80=99s a very =
small place, and quite popular, but prices are reasonable, and the =
coffee is yummy and not burnt.   :)


From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:09:54 2019
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From: Ted Lemon 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:09:47 -0400
References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com>  
To: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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On 7/22/19 1:57 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 13:06, Ted Lemon  =
 wrote:
>> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.=20
> So I did:
>=20
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105side-slides =

>=20
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
Vielen Dank!

On Jul 22, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Robert Moskowitz  =
wrote:
>=20
> File size limit of 2MB which is not hard to exceed with a couple =
images in the slides.  One I want to upload is only 2.8MB...

If you want to provide slides, you probably need to just put in a link =
to the slides.   But this would be a good place to put it. :)


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On 7/22/19 1:57 PM, Carsten =
Bormann wrote:
On Jul 22, 2019, at 13:06, Ted Lemon =
<mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.=20

So I did:

https=
://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105side-slides

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

Vielen Dank!

On Jul 22, =
2019, at 2:06 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote:

File size limit of 2MB which is not hard to exceed with a =
couple images in the slides.  One I want to upload is only =
2.8MB...

If you want to provide slides, you probably need to just put =
in a link to the slides.   But this would be a good place to put =
it. :)

=

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From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:11:17 2019
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From: Eric McMurry 
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Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
To: John Scudder 
References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com>      <4CD5599E-9504-4645-ACA1-27C9C34F67C4@gmail.com>   <445C7C6B-4BF8-4429-B1B9-378C4947930C@puck.nether.net> <56CC6733-9770-40A4-A53B-BAF5447906B4@juniper.net> <7C25E506-7D0F-444E-B23D-20856FE33F10@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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I haven=E2=80=99t tried this recently, but it hasn=E2=80=99t always =
worked that way.  At least on AA, they like to see passports.  It is =
safest to have both, so you don=E2=80=99t run into issues with people =
who don=E2=80=99t read that policy.

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 23:11, John Scudder =
 wrote:
>=20
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 2:14 PM, John Scudder =
> wrote:
>>=20
>> Interesting footnote: Per the web sites of the US and Canada =
governments, as well as TIMATIC, a NEXUS card is acceptable as sole =
travel document for air crossing from US to Canada and vice-versa. If I =
can=E2=80=99t locate my passport in the next few hours :-o I will have =
the opportunity to report whether this actually works as advertised.
>=20
> Confirmed: I got all the way from my home to my hotel room without =
once getting my passport (which I did find) out of my pocket. I was =
pleasantly surprised that the airline people were unfazed when I handed =
them a NEXUS card for the document check.=20
>=20
> =E2=80=94John
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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I =
haven=E2=80=99t tried this recently, but it hasn=E2=80=99t always worked =
that way.  At least on AA, they like to see passports.  It is =
safest to have both, so you don=E2=80=99t run into issues with people =
who don=E2=80=99t read that policy.

On Jul =
21, 2019, at 23:11, John Scudder <jgs=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:







On Jul 21, 2019, at 2:14 PM, John Scudder <jgs=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:







Interesting
 footnote: Per the web sites of the US and Canada governments, as well =
as TIMATIC, a NEXUS card is acceptable as sole travel document for air =
crossing from US to Canada and vice-versa. If I can=E2=80=99t locate my =
passport in the next few hours :-o I will have the
 opportunity to report whether this actually works as =
advertised.










Confirmed: I got all the way from my home to my hotel =
room without once getting my passport (which I did find) out of my =
pocket. I was pleasantly surprised that the airline people were unfazed =
when I handed them a NEXUS card for the document check. 







=E2=80=94John




-- 
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

=

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To: Robert Moskowitz , Ted Lemon 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com>  
From: Brian E Carpenter 
Message-ID: <8a5ad7db-36f1-4532-ab8c-b9dff29300d7@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 06:28:39 +1200
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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On 23-Jul-19 05:43, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> Yes.=C2=A0 Just as I edited it to put in our side meeting.=C2=A0 But it=
 does not provide an IETF place for slides.=C2=A0 Only announcement of si=
de meetings and room reservation.

You can put the URL of your slides in the "meeting description" column, w=
hether it's your own URL or one on Carsten's page.

However, when you update that in the wiki, it doesn't seem to get updated=
 in the Google calendar entry, at least not immediately.

   Brian

>=20
> Kudos to the team in putting this together.
>=20
> On 7/22/19 1:18 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:
>>> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.
>> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears t=
o be editable.
>>
>>     Brian
>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz > wrote:
>>>
>>>> And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.
>>>>
>>>> If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.
>>>>
>>>> No biggie.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to +1 on Bob=E2=80=99s note. I have slides for an unofficial =
side meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
>>>>> Please, no.
>>>>>
>>>>> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF d=
oesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an=
 unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.
>>>>>
>>>>> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine=
 the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Paul Hoffman
>>>>>
>>>> --=20
>>>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>>>> Owner
>>>> HTT Consulting
>>>> C:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-219-2059
>>>> F:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-968-2824
>>>> E:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>>>
>>>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter wh=
o gets the credit
>>>> --=20
>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>=20
> --=20
> Standard Robert Moskowitz
> Owner
> HTT Consulting
> C:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-219-2059
> F:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0248-968-2824
> E:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>=20
> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who g=
ets the credit


From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:45:26 2019
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To: Brian E Carpenter , Ted Lemon 
Cc: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com>   <8a5ad7db-36f1-4532-ab8c-b9dff29300d7@gmail.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz 
Message-ID: <49ebd790-5789-62e0-f0f9-f123ef0de169@labs.htt-consult.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:44:59 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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The update to the Google calendar is delayed by some hours.  I 
encountered this some weeks ago.

On 7/22/19 2:28 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 23-Jul-19 05:43, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> Yes.  Just as I edited it to put in our side meeting.  But it does not provide an IETF place for slides.  Only announcement of side meetings and room reservation.
> You can put the URL of your slides in the "meeting description" column, whether it's your own URL or one on Carsten's page.
>
> However, when you update that in the wiki, it doesn't seem to get updated in the Google calendar entry, at least not immediately.
>
>     Brian
>
>> Kudos to the team in putting this together.
>>
>> On 7/22/19 1:18 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>>> On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:
>>>> I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.
>>> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears to be editable.
>>>
>>>      Brian
>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.
>>>>>
>>>>> No biggie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.
>>>>>> Please, no.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Paul Hoffman
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>>>>> Owner
>>>>> HTT Consulting
>>>>> C:      248-219-2059
>>>>> F:      248-968-2824
>>>>> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>>>>
>>>>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> 105attendees mailing list
>>>>> 105attendees@ietf.org 
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>> -- 
>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>> Owner
>> HTT Consulting
>> C:      248-219-2059
>> F:      248-968-2824
>> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>
>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------EA25C0C367BB7213D4F7C81D
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    The update to the Google calendar is delayed by some hours.  I
    encountered this some weeks ago.

    

    
On 7/22/19 2:28 PM, Brian E Carpenter
      wrote:

    

    

      
On 23-Jul-19 05:43, Robert Moskowitz wrote:


      

        
Yes.  Just as I edited it to put in our side meeting.  But it does not provide an IETF place for slides.  Only announcement of side meetings and room reservation.


      

      
You can put the URL of your slides in the "meeting description" column, whether it's your own URL or one on Carsten's page.

However, when you update that in the wiki, it doesn't seem to get updated in the Google calendar entry, at least not immediately.

   Brian



      

        
Kudos to the team in putting this together.

On 7/22/19 1:18 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:


        

          
On 23-Jul-19 05:06, Ted Lemon wrote:


          

            
I think it would make sense to add a wiki page.


          

          
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/105sidemeetings appears to be editable.

    Brian



          

            
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com <mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>> wrote:



            

              
And I was asking IF there was something semi not official.

If there is none, then I have my own server for postings.

No biggie.

Bob

On 7/22/19 12:36 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:


              

                
On 22 Jul 2019, at 12:01, mark@internetpolicyadvisors.com wrote:



                

                  
Just to +1 on Bob’s note. I have slides for an unofficial side meeting that I would love to have posted on the IETF webspace.


                

                
Please, no.

Side meetings are side meetings. They have evolved from "the IETF doesn't help them happen at all" to *just* "the IETF might let them use an unused meeting room". There should be no other expectation of support.

We all know how to post files on the interwebs and how to determine the URLs of those posted files to tell others in the meeting.

--Paul Hoffman



              

              
-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
-- 
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org <mailto:105attendees@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


            

          

        

        
-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit


      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------EA25C0C367BB7213D4F7C81D--


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From: Tom Pusateri 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:08:26 -0400
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To: Ted Lemon 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Non-burnt filter coffee available at Tunnel Coffee
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Thanks!

Likewise, if you=E2=80=99re in Old Montr=C3=A9al, I had a delicious =
espresso at Tommy this morning (200 Rue Notre-Dame). The atmosphere is =
quite nice if you=E2=80=99re looking for a place to hide. But alas, I =
can no longer hide from people on this list.

Tom

> On Jul 22, 2019, at 2:07 PM, Ted Lemon  wrote:
>=20
> For those who want it, I figured I=E2=80=99d share this, since it=E2=80=99=
s a bit hard to find around here.   Tunnel Coffee is in the tunnel =
between Place de Ville Marie and the Eaton Center.   It=E2=80=99s a very =
small place, and quite popular, but prices are reasonable, and the =
coffee is yummy and not burnt.   :)
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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From: "M. Ranganathan" 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:20:31 -0400
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Subject: [105attendees] Any opendaylight experts on this list?
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--0000000000007b9467058e4ba76c
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Hello all,

IETF newbie here. Not sure if this mail is appropriate to post to this list
so excuse me if not.

I am trying to get a hackathon prototype ready at the hackathon
demonstration but alas opendaylight won't cooperate. I don't know how to
serialize to a json document from a builder for a yang model. If you can
help with this I shall be eternally grateful.

Thanks,

Regards,

Ranga

-- 
M. Ranganathan

--0000000000007b9467058e4ba76c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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Hello all,

IETF newbie here.=
 Not sure if this mail is appropriate to post to this list so excuse me if =
not.

I am trying to get a hackathon prototype read=
y at the hackathon demonstration but alas opendaylight won't cooperate.=
 I don't know how to serialize to a json document from a builder for a =
yang model. If you can help with this I shall be eternally grateful.
<=
div>
Thanks, 

Regards,

Ranga

-- 
M. Ranganathan 

=



--0000000000007b9467058e4ba76c--


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From nobody Mon Jul 22 14:25:22 2019
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From: Carsten Bormann 
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:25:12 -0400
Cc: Ted Lemon , 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman 
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To: Robert Moskowitz 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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On Jul 22, 2019, at 14:06, Robert Moskowitz  =
wrote:
>=20
> File size limit of 2MB

Henrik just told me he has increased that =E2=80=94 please try again.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


From nobody Mon Jul 22 14:28:04 2019
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From: Sandra Murphy 
In-Reply-To: <20190721141302.GA16382@puck.nether.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:27:39 -0400
Cc: Sandra Murphy , Chris Morrow , Jim Reid , Eric Burger , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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To: Jared Mauch 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] YUL WiFi
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ran into that today.  they want a verification code sent to your email =
address to use the wifi.

And if your phone service=E2=80=99s Canadian add-on is not working =
somehow, you can=E2=80=99t get the code.

=E2=80=94Sandy

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Jared Mauch  =
wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> wait, you put your real email address into the airport wifi portal?
>=20
> nobody@ tends to go to /dev/null and is a suitable address.  Some of =
the
> systems do validate the address is accurate by requiring you to enter
> some information in exchange for their free service.


From nobody Mon Jul 22 16:04:43 2019
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From: Sarah Banks 
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Subject: [105attendees] Fwd: 3 social tickets for sale
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> Hi,
>    I have 3 social tickets for sale, face value, $25 CAD. First come first=
 serve. I=E2=80=99ll be downstairs in the lobby for 5 minutes with 2 teenage=
rs, or we can meet later to exchange. Let me know!!
>=20
> Thanks
> Sarah


From nobody Mon Jul 22 16:21:01 2019
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From: Aaron Falk 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:19:28 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion ,  IETF WG Chairs , IRTF Discuss 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000084a2e058e4e26ac"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Let's have some fun: PechaKucha & friends
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Location: Duluth

Speaking slots are still available.

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Aaron Falk  wrote:

> As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social event around
> satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the past, it=E2=80=
=99s been
> required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKucha format is rather
> strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minimal text). So, I=E2=
=80=99d
> like to try an experiment. This time, any talk format will be allowed
> (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes. As before, the topics
> are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or controversial in som=
e
> way, although not mean-spirited. Anyone can participate in this unofficia=
l
> social event.
>
> The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:30pm. Location
> will be announced later.
>
> If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here are two of my pe=
rsonal
> favorites from prior IETFs by Pete
> 
> and Brian
> .
> Video from the past BA PKs can be found here 
> .
>
> If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tutorials and
> suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a few: [1
> ], [2
> ],
> [3 ].
>
> As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions, People!=E2=80=
=9D
>
> Format Details:
>
>    - Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first
>    served.
>    - To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to
>    aaron.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation.
>    - Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes
>    (strictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach).
>    - Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF.
>
> --
-- aaron Sent from Gmail Mobile

--000000000000084a2e058e4e26ac
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Location: Duluth

Speaking slots are still available.=C2=A0<=
/div>

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Aaron Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.com> wrote:<=
br>










As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social e=
vent around satirical short talks.  (Sometimes there is beer.)  In the past=
, it=E2=80=99s been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKuch=
a format is rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minima=
l text).  So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment.  This time, any talk f=
ormat will be allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes.  A=
s before, the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or c=
ontroversial in some way, although not mean-spirited.  Anyone can participa=
te in this unofficial social event.



The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:3=
0pm.  Location will be announced later.



If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here ar=
e two of my personal favorites from prior IETFs by Pete and Brian.  Video from the past BA PKs can be found here=
.



If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tu=
torials and suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha.  Here are a few:=
 [1], [2=
], [3].



As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions, =
People!=E2=80=9D



Format Details:



    

  • Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first served.<=
/li>

  • To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to aaron.f=
alk@gmail.com and receive confirmation.
    • 

  • Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes (stri=
ctly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach).
    • 

  • Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF.
    • 












-- 
-- aaron

Sent from Gmail Mobile


--000000000000084a2e058e4e26ac--


From nobody Mon Jul 22 18:45:35 2019
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From: Sarah Banks 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Fwd: 3 social tickets for sale
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All gone. Thanks folks.=20


> On Jul 22, 2019, at 7:02 PM, Sarah Banks  wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> Hi,
>>   I have 3 social tickets for sale, face value, $25 CAD. First come first=
 serve. I=E2=80=99ll be downstairs in the lobby for 5 minutes with 2 teenage=
rs, or we can meet later to exchange. Let me know!!
>>=20
>> Thanks
>> Sarah
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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To: Albert Fu , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <5D367987028005E8003900FC_0_81820@msclnjpmsgsv04>
From: "J.C. DE MARTIN" 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket needed
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I have a social event ticket to sell,
at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.

If interested, drop me a line.

Best,

juan carlos de martin



On 23/07/2019 05:05, Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow night.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Albert Fu
>
>


--------------EEA1A7B447EDB9E680CDBF55
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    I have a social event ticket to sell,

    at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.

    

    If interested, drop me a line.

    

    Best,

    

    juan carlos de martin

    

    

    

    
On 23/07/2019 05:05, Albert Fu
      (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      
Hi,
I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow night.
Thanks
Albert Fu

      

      

    

    

  


--------------EEA1A7B447EDB9E680CDBF55--


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Listen.. I been watching these emails since 104.. I joined off certain
things that started happening to me in my life. Im just being honest here
so if u have time hopefully can someone have a conversation with me by
phone or maybe talk in person?  Not really 100 percent sure what this about
but is anyone in new york if they can better explain this to me in person?
Cause i want to have a better understanding. U would be astonished of what
i have to say and what i seen and been through these past six months

--000000000000595e48058e547dd8
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Listen.. I been watching=
 these emails since 104.. I joined off certain things that started happenin=
g to me in my life. Im just being honest here so if u have time hopefully c=
an someone have a conversation with me by phone or maybe talk in person?=C2=
=A0 Not really 100 percent sure what this about but is anyone in new york i=
f they can better explain this to me in person? Cause i want to have a bett=
er understanding. U would be astonished of what i have to say and what i se=
en and been through these past six months




--000000000000595e48058e547dd8--


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References:   <8130596b-8d0b-78cb-7bd9-570f7b520e73@labs.htt-consult.com> <086801d540a6$bde88a20$39b99e60$@internetpolicyadvisors.com> <87DE8B76-8587-4596-87C7-6659017780CF@vpnc.org> <251ceca1-2908-93b7-7b2d-04ecb03a576d@labs.htt-consult.com> <21421331-E671-4373-9DDF-14D36548AF5B@fugue.com>   <5498581C-9746-4A82-8A7A-750AD96F29BD@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <5498581C-9746-4A82-8A7A-750AD96F29BD@tzi.org>
From: Wangi Peter 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:05:08 +0300
Message-ID: 
To: Carsten Bormann 
Cc: Robert Moskowitz , 105 attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>,  Ted Lemon , Paul Hoffman 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b2986c058e58019c"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Posting slides for side meetings
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Good afternoon Carsten/team


I joined off certain things that started happening to me in my life. Im
just being honest here so if u have time hopefully can someone have a
conversation with me by phone/WhatsApp or maybe talk in person?  Not really
100 percent sure what this about but is anyone in new Africa if they can
better explain this to me in person? Cause i want to have a better
understanding.



Thanks
Peter +19736715054

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 12:25 AM Carsten Bormann  wrote:

> On Jul 22, 2019, at 14:06, Robert Moskowitz 
> wrote:
> >
> > File size limit of 2MB
>
> Henrik just told me he has increased that =E2=80=94 please try again.
>
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

--000000000000b2986c058e58019c
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Good afternoon Carsten/team


I joined off certain things that started happeni=
ng to me in my life. Im just being honest here so if u have time hopefully =
can someone have a conversation with me by phone/WhatsApp or maybe talk in =
person?=C2=A0 Not really 100 percent sure what this about but is anyone in =
new Africa if they can better explain this to me in person? Cause i want to=
 have a better understanding.



Thanks
Peter +19736=
715054

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 12:25 AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On Jul 22, 2019, at 14:06, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@lab=
s.htt-consult.com> wrote:

> 

> File size limit of 2MB



Henrik just told me he has increased that =E2=80=94 please try again.



Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/1=
05attendees




--000000000000b2986c058e58019c--


From nobody Tue Jul 23 05:13:09 2019
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:12:53 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol 
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: [105attendees] is Technology Deep Dive being steamed?
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I get
The requested URL /ietf105/tdd/ was not found on this server.
on
https://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/tdd/

    rvdp


From nobody Tue Jul 23 05:14:56 2019
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:14:49 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol 
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20190723121449.GB17031@rvdp.org>
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streamed :-)

Yes, I heard it's hot there...

    rvdp


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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "Jose Morales" 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:27:09 -0400
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Oh, my goodness, Jose, this sounds serious!  Yes, let’s talk.  I’m 
not in NY but you can arrange an appointment with my secretary at 
877-382-4357.  Be safe, dude.

--aaron

On 23 Jul 2019, at 3:53, Jose Morales wrote:

> Listen.. I been watching these emails since 104.. I joined off certain
> things that started happening to me in my life. Im just being honest 
> here
> so if u have time hopefully can someone have a conversation with me by
> phone or maybe talk in person?  Not really 100 percent sure what this 
> about
> but is anyone in new york if they can better explain this to me in 
> person?
> Cause i want to have a better understanding. U would be astonished of 
> what
> i have to say and what i seen and been through these past six months


> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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<=
p dir=3D"auto">Oh, my goodness, Jose, this sounds serious!  Yes, let=E2=80=
=99s talk.  I=E2=80=99m not in NY but you can arrange an appointment with=
 my secretary at 877-382-4357.  Be safe, dude.


--aaron


On 23 Jul 2019, at 3:53, Jose Morales wrote:




Listen.. I been watc=
hing these emails since 104.. I joined off certain things that started ha=
ppening to me in my life. Im just being honest here so if u have time hop=
efully can someone have a conversation with me by phone or maybe talk in =
person?=C2=A0 Not really 100 percent sure what this about but is anyone i=
n new york if they can better explain this to me in person? Cause i want =
to have a better understanding. U would be astonished of what i have to s=
ay and what i seen and been through these past six months

=






-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees







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From: Warren Kumari 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:33:40 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Ronald van der Pol 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] is Technology Deep Dive being steamed?
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Due to a screw up by one to the organizers (me!) we didn't organize
proposer remote participation for this (we'd thought that it was a
"normal" session because it was on the agenda, but it was classified
as a side-meeting, etc..)

Because Meetecho folk are awesome, they have done magic and we now have:
http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/placeducanada


W

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:13 AM Ronald van der Pol
 wrote:
>
> I get
> The requested URL /ietf105/tdd/ was not found on this server.
> on
> https://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/tdd/
>
>     rvdp
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf


From nobody Tue Jul 23 05:37:13 2019
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:37:04 +0200
From: Ronald van der Pol 
To: Warren Kumari 
Cc: Ronald van der Pol , 105attendees@ietf.org
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On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 08:33:40 -0400, Warren Kumari wrote:

> Due to a screw up by one to the organizers (me!) we didn't organize
> proposer remote participation for this (we'd thought that it was a
> "normal" session because it was on the agenda, but it was classified
> as a side-meeting, etc..)
> 
> Because Meetecho folk are awesome, they have done magic and we now have:
> http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/placeducanada

Great!! thanks! This is working for me.

    rvdp


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From: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Has anyone seen a black laptop charger?
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From nobody Tue Jul 23 05:44:56 2019
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From: Carsten Bormann 
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So will there be a recording this time (as opposed to, apparently, last =
time)?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


From nobody Tue Jul 23 06:00:29 2019
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From: Lucas Estienne 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT] Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket needed
Thread-Index: AQHVQRTeQ8mkWqjoeEyVlzole2Q2cabYKv1u
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:00:17 +0000
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I=92ve also got an extra social ticket to sell.

Thanks,
Lucas
From: J.C. DE MARTIN >
Date: Tuesday, Jul 23, 2019, 1:09 AM
To: Albert Fu >, 105attende=
es@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket needed

I have a social event ticket to sell,
at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.

If interested, drop me a line.

Best,

juan carlos de martin



On 23/07/2019 05:05, Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) wrote:

Hi,

I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow night.

Thanks

Albert Fu










--_000_9126ed6dd4b742218c5d4d32b7ac0db9ciraca_
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I=92ve also got an extra social ticket to sell.






Thanks,


Lucas




From: J.C. DE MARTIN <demartin@polito.it>


Date: Tuesday, Jul 23, 2019, 1:09 AM


To: Albert Fu <=
afu14@bloomberg.net>, 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>


Subject: [EXT] Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket n=
eeded






I have a social event ticket to sell,

at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.



If interested, drop me a line.



Best,



juan carlos de martin








On 23/07/2019 05:05, Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 1=
20 PARK) wrote:




















Hi,


I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow ni=
ght.


Thanks


Albert Fu




















 








--_000_9126ed6dd4b742218c5d4d32b7ac0db9ciraca_--


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On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:44 AM Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>
> So will there be a recording this time
>
I believe so, yes. (it's being recorded, but because I requested
support late I need to make sure it won't get overwritten by the next
session)...

>(as opposed to, apparently, last time)?

Last time *was* recorded -- the recording is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCqTC9uLvoR4 (linked form the IETF104
agenda - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/agenda/ )

W
>
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>


--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf


From nobody Tue Jul 23 06:23:13 2019
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On Jul 23, 2019, at 09:07, Warren Kumari  wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:44 AM Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>>=20
>> So will there be a recording this time
>>=20
> I believe so, yes. (it's being recorded, but because I requested
> support late I need to make sure it won't get overwritten by the next
> session)=E2=80=A6

Great=E2=80=A6
>=20
>> (as opposed to, apparently, last time)?
>=20
> Last time *was* recorded -- the recording is here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCqTC9uLvoR4 (linked form the IETF104
> agenda - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/agenda/ )

Even better! =20
My search-fu had not been sufficient, so I assumed that this had been =
missed.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten



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From: Rukshani Athapathu 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:14:18 +0530
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Cc: Warren Kumari , 105attendees@ietf.org
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Thanks. Is it possible to see the slides as well? I can only see the video.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:07 PM Ronald van der Pol <
ronald.vanderpol@rvdp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 08:33:40 -0400, Warren Kumari wrote:
>
> > Due to a screw up by one to the organizers (me!) we didn't organize
> > proposer remote participation for this (we'd thought that it was a
> > "normal" session because it was on the agenda, but it was classified
> > as a side-meeting, etc..)
> >
> > Because Meetecho folk are awesome, they have done magic and we now have:
> > http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/placeducanada
>
> Great!! thanks! This is working for me.
>
>     rvdp
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
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Thanks. Is it possible to see the slides as well? I can on=
ly see the video.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:07 PM Ronald van der Pol <ronald.vanderpol@rvdp.org>=
 wrote:
On Tue, =
Jul 23, 2019 at 08:33:40 -0400, Warren Kumari wrote:



> Due to a screw up by one to the organizers (me!) we didn't organiz=
e

> proposer remote participation for this (we'd thought that it was a=


> "normal" session because it was on the agenda, but it was cl=
assified

> as a side-meeting, etc..)

> 

> Because Meetecho folk are awesome, they have done magic and we now hav=
e:

> http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/placeducanada<=
br>


Great!! thanks! This is working for me.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 rvdp



-- 

105attendees mailing list

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f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 18:14:18 +0530, Rukshani Athapathu wrote:

> Thanks. Is it possible to see the slides as well? I can only see the video.

Have you chosen "Presentation Mode" at the top right of your MeetEcho page?

Slides URL is also in the agenda.

    rvdp


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From: Aanchal Malhotra 
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I have an extra ticket too.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:00 AM Lucas Estienne 
wrote:

> I=E2=80=99ve also got an extra social ticket to sell.
>
> Thanks,
> Lucas
> *From: *J.C. DE MARTIN 
> *Date: *Tuesday, Jul 23, 2019, 1:09 AM
> *To: *Albert Fu , 105attendees@ietf.org <
> 105attendees@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[EXT] Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket needed
>
> I have a social event ticket to sell,
> at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.
>
> If interested, drop me a line.
>
> Best,
>
> juan carlos de martin
>
>
>
> On 23/07/2019 05:05, Albert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow night=
.
>
> Thanks
>
> Albert Fu
>
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
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>
--=20
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I have an extra ticket too.

On Tue, Jul 23=
, 2019 at 9:00 AM Lucas Estienne <Lucas.Estienne@cira.ca> wrote:







I=E2=80=99ve also got an extra social ticket to sell.






Thanks,


Lucas




From: J.C. DE MARTIN <demartin@polito.it>


Date: Tuesday, Jul 23, 2019, 1:09 AM



Subject: [EXT] Re: [105attendees] 1 social event ticket n=
eeded






I have a social event ticket to sell,

at the last minute I could not travel to Montreal.



If interested, drop me a line.



Best,



juan carlos de martin








On 23/07/2019 05:05, Al=
bert Fu (BLOOMBERG/ 120 PARK) wrote:




















Hi,


I am interested in purchasing a ticket to the social event tomorrow ni=
ght.


Thanks


Albert Fu




















 <=
/blockquote>







-- 

105attendees mailing list

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Subject: [105attendees] =?utf-8?q?Trevor_Noah_=28host_of_The_Daily_Show_o?= =?utf-8?q?n_Comedy_Central=29_performing_here_in_Montr=C3=A9al_on_Friday?=
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If you=E2=80=99re a fan of Trevor Noah (the host of The Daily Show on =
Comedy Central), and you=E2=80=99ll still be here in Montr=C3=A9al =
Friday evening at the end of IETF week, you may be interested to know =
that he will be performing his Loud & Clear show 8pm Friday evening at =
the Bell Centre, about ten minutes walk from the Fairmont hotel.



Stuart Cheshire


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From: Rukshani Athapathu 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:21:13 +0530
Message-ID: 
To: Ronald van der Pol 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] is Technology Deep Dive being steamed?
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Yes. Got it sorted out. Thanks.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:02 PM Ronald van der Pol <
ronald.vanderpol@rvdp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 18:14:18 +0530, Rukshani Athapathu wrote:
>
> > Thanks. Is it possible to see the slides as well? I can only see the
> video.
>
> Have you chosen "Presentation Mode" at the top right of your MeetEcho page?
>
> Slides URL is also in the agenda.
>
>     rvdp
>

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Yes. Got it sorted out. Thanks.=C2=A0

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019=
 at 7:02 PM Ronald van der Pol <ronald.vanderpol@rvdp.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 18:14:18 +0530, Ruksh=
ani Athapathu wrote:



> Thanks. Is it possible to see the slides as well? I can only see the v=
ideo.



Have you chosen "Presentation Mode" at the top right of your Meet=
Echo page?



Slides URL is also in the agenda.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 rvdp




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From: Aaron Falk 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:54:18 -0400
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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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For those who didn=E2=80=99t get the joke, I replied to this phishing attem=
pt with
the number of the IS Federal Trade Commission consumer complaint line.

=E2=80=94aaron

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:27 AM Aaron Falk  wrote:

> Oh, my goodness, Jose, this sounds serious! Yes, let=E2=80=99s talk. I=E2=
=80=99m not in NY
> but you can arrange an appointment with my secretary at 877-382-4357. Be
> safe, dude.
>
> --aaron
>
> On 23 Jul 2019, at 3:53, Jose Morales wrote:
>
> Listen.. I been watching these emails since 104.. I joined off certain
> things that started happening to me in my life. Im just being honest here
> so if u have time hopefully can someone have a conversation with me by
> phone or maybe talk in person?  Not really 100 percent sure what this abo=
ut
> but is anyone in new york if they can better explain this to me in person=
?
> Cause i want to have a better understanding. U would be astonished of wha=
t
> i have to say and what i seen and been through these past six months
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>
> --
-- aaron Sent from Gmail Mobile

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For those who didn=E2=80=99t get the joke, I replied=
 to this phishing attempt with the number of the IS Federal Trade Commissio=
n consumer complaint line.=C2=A0

=E2=80=94aaron=C2=A0

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:27 AM Aar=
on Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.com> wrote:








Oh, my goodness, Jose, this sounds serious!  Yes, let=E2=80=99=
s talk.  I=E2=80=99m not in NY but you can arrange an appointment with my s=
ecretary at 877-382-4357.  Be safe, dude.


--aaron


On 23 Jul 2019, at 3:53, Jose Morales wrote:




Listen.. I b=
een watching these emails since 104.. I joined off certain things that star=
ted happening to me in my life. Im just being honest here so if u have time=
 hopefully can someone have a conversation with me by phone or maybe talk i=
n person?=C2=A0 Not really 100 percent sure what this about but is anyone i=
n new york if they can better explain this to me in person? Cause i want to=
 have a better understanding. U would be astonished of what i have to say a=
nd what i seen and been through these past six months

=









-- 
-- aaron

Sent from Gmail Mobile


--000000000000d87c25058e5992ce--


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From: Jeff Osborn 
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Text me at +1 408 455 8258.

Jeff

-- 
Jeff Osborn
President
Internet Systems Consortium


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From nobody Tue Jul 23 07:18:55 2019
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From: Jeff Osborn 
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And they're both gone.

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Osborn" 
> To: 105attendees@ietf.org
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:01:55 AM
> Subject: [105attendees] I have 2 extra tickets for the social

> Text me at +1 408 455 8258.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> --
> Jeff Osborn
> President
> Internet Systems Consortium
> 
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
Jeff Osborn
President
Internet Systems Consortium


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Will drop it at the Secretariat after the morning session.

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Will drop it at the Secretariat after the morning session.=







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From nobody Tue Jul 23 07:39:37 2019
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Hello,
if anybody has a spare ticket for the social, I'll buy it.

Thanks
Fred


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From: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" 
To: "frederic.fieau@orange.com" , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: me too if anyone have spare social ticket can contact me, I want buy one/ RE: [105attendees] Looking for a social ticket
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Subject: [105attendees] me too if anyone have spare social ticket can contact me, I want buy one/ RE:  Looking for a social ticket
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From: "Palislamovic, Senad (Nokia - US)" 
To: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Has anyone seen a black laptop charger?
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Hi Yunan,







A description of the charger=
 / brand / connector - etc would be helpful.
















From: 105attendees <105a=
ttendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology=
 Research Dept. NW) <guyunan@huawei.com>

Sent: 23 July 2019 08:44:03

To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>

Subject: [105attendees] Has anyone seen a black laptop charger?

 








I lost my charger yesterday probably on the C-floor. Anyone seen it please =
kindly reply to this email! Many thanks!



Yunan









=B9=CB=EE=DA=E9=AA Yunan Gu

Mobile: +86-15001353906 

Email: guyunan@huawei.com














--_000_AM0PR07MB5492942230DB125EFE4C4E1F90C70AM0PR07MB5492eurp_--


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From: "Panwei (William)" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Looking for a ticket for social event
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Hi all,=



 <=
/p>

I=A1=AFd like to buy one =
if anyone has a spare social ticket, please contact me.

 <=
/p>

 


Regards & Thanks!


=C5=CB=CE=B0<=
/span> Wei Pan


Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.


 






--_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DDF0481nkgeml513mbschi_--


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From: Mary B 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:34:57 -0400
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Subject: [105attendees] Social ticket to offer/sell
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--00000000000046c528058e5e4aff
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I have an extra social ticket if anyone is still wanting one. FCFS.

Regards,
Mary.

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I have an extra social ticket if anyone is still wanting o=
ne. FCFS.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Regards,
Mary.


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I have a social ticket available if anyone is still wanting one.

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I have a social ticket available if anyone is still wanting one.




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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Two social event tickets available
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Subject: [105attendees] Two social event tickets available
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Juniper Business Use Only

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Juniper Business=
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From: "Prakash Jain (prakjain)" 
To: Mary B , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Social ticket to offer/sell
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Social ticket to offer/sell
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I have one too..
________________________________
From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mary B 
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 3:34:57 PM
To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: [105attendees] Social ticket to offer/sell

I have an extra social ticket if anyone is still wanting one. FCFS.

Regards,
Mary.

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I have one too..




From: 105attendees <105a=
ttendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mary B <mary.h.barnes@gmail.c=
om>

Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 3:34:57 PM

To: 105attendees@ietf.org <105attendees@ietf.org>

Subject: [105attendees] Social ticket to offer/sell

 






I have an extra social ticket if anyone is still wanting o=
ne. FCFS.  








Regards,


Mary.










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From: Nat Sakimura 
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:53:02 -0400
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Subject: [105attendees] Looking for a Social Ticket
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If you still have one, please let me know.
I would like to buy one.

Best Regards

-- 
Nat Sakimura


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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" 
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Thread-Topic: Social Ticket is available
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IEkgaGF2ZSBhbiBleHRyYSBzb2NpYWwgdGlja2V0LCBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIG9u
ZS4NCg0K


From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:16:03 2019
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Subject: [105attendees] two social tickets available
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I have two spare social tickets, FCFS. Beer payment accepted :)


From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:49:15 2019
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From: Shuai Zhao 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: One Social ticket available 
Thread-Index: AQHVQaBvA2QDOZCvbU2YGDVdgxpy1g==
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:48:59 +0000
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Subject: [105attendees] One Social ticket available
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Free feel to contact me if you need one=20

Best Regards,
Shuai


From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:57:21 2019
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To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jordi_Pailliss=c3=a9_Vilanova?= 
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:57:04 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] two social tickets available
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Gone!

El 23/7/19 a les 17:15, Jordi Paillissé Vilanova ha escrit:
> I have two spare social tickets, FCFS. Beer payment accepted :)
>


From nobody Tue Jul 23 15:04:05 2019
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From: "shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: One Social ticket available
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Gone!

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 17:48, TonyAlbums@hotmail.com wrote:
>=20
> Free feel to contact me if you need one=20
>=20
> Best Regards,
> Shuai


From nobody Wed Jul 24 04:54:49 2019
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From: Portia Wenze-Danley 
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Subject: [105attendees] Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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All,


The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s =
administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to =
begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  =
The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can =
maximize time for open mic.

Apologies for the late notice.

Thank you.

________________________________
Portia Wenze-Danley
IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
(Formerly IETF Administrative Director (IAD)=09
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
pwdanley@ietf.org








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All,


The hotel is informed =
the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s administrative plenary must end =
by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up the room for =
tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  The chair has asked =
plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for =
open mic.

Apologies for the late notice.

Thank you.



________________________________
Portia Wenze-Danley
IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
(Formerly IETF Administrative =
Director (IAD)	
Internet =
Engineering Task Force (IETF)










=

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From nobody Wed Jul 24 06:32:27 2019
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X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit
To: Alissa Cooper 
References: <556DAC1F-F4EB-4986-AFF2-F616376F77C3@ietf.org>
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB , The IESG , ietf@ietf.org
From: Michael StJohns 
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Subject: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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Hi Alissa -

Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE 
discussion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  
I propose that we move the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the 
open mic period, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that 
session.   If we have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG 
take the stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to 
the mailing list.

I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting the 
time of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general 
matter of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a 
given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests of 
getting as much community input as possible.

Thanks - Mike



On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
> All,
>
>
> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight’s administrative 
> plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up 
> the room for tomorrow morning’s WG sessions.  The chair has asked 
> plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for 
> open mic.
>
> Apologies for the late notice.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ________________________________
> *Portia Wenze-Danley*
> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
> (/Formerly/IETF Administrative Director (IAD)
> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
> pwdanley@ietf.org 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------291B5164E0FE95A50C327018
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Hi Alissa - 

    

    


    

    
Given the hard stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I propose that we move
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.   If we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefer to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general matter
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike

    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

      
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight’s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning’s WG
        sessions.  The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept to
        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
Apologies for the late notice.

      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            

              
________________________________

              
Portia
                    Wenze-Danley

              
IETF Administration LLC
                Executive Director (Interim)

              
(Formerly IETF
                Administrative Director (IAD)	

              
Internet Engineering
                Task Force (IETF)

              
              


              

              


              

              

            

          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      

    

    


    

  


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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "Michael StJohns" 
Cc: "Alissa Cooper" , 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB , "The IESG" , ietf@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:50:37 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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I’m also a bit concerned about time.  We know there is lots to talk 
about regarding the RSE and, especially if we know there’s a hard 
stop, I think it would be helpful to make as much space for that in the 
plenary agenda.  Mike’s suggestions seem good to me.

The imbalance of ‘mic time’ where one comment from the community 
gets many responses from the dias has been a long time gripe of mine. 
The various perspectives of the I* members are sometimes interesting and 
valuable but it can consume a lot of meeting time. IMO, its a flaw of 
our plenary structure.  Perhaps folks can be more targeted with who a 
question or comment is intended for.

My 0.02CAD.

--aaron

On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:32, Michael StJohns wrote:

> Hi Alissa -
>
> Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE 
> discussion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the 
> IESG,  I propose that we move the IAB open mic session to the 
> beginning of the open mic period, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the 
> IAB for that session.   If we have time left over and topics, we can 
> have the IESG take the stage at that time - otherwise those topics can 
> be addressed to the mailing list.
>
> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting 
> the time of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a 
> general matter of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB 
> responders to a given question to the smallest number necessary in the 
> interests of getting as much community input as possible.
>
> Thanks - Mike
>
>
>
> On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
>> All,
>>
>>
>> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight’s administrative 
>> plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting 
>> up the room for tomorrow morning’s WG sessions.  The chair has 
>> asked plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize 
>> time for open mic.
>>
>> Apologies for the late notice.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> *Portia Wenze-Danley*
>> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
>> (/Formerly/IETF Administrative Director (IAD)
>> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
>> pwdanley@ietf.org 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--=_MailMate_238E6876-5AC4-40FE-99F9-E8D24CE3293B_=
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<=
p dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99m also a bit concerned about time.  We know ther=
e is lots to talk about regarding the RSE and, especially if we know ther=
e=E2=80=99s a hard stop, I think it would be helpful to make as much spac=
e for that in the plenary agenda.  Mike=E2=80=99s suggestions seem good t=
o me.  


The imbalance of =E2=80=98mic time=E2=80=99 where one com=
ment from the community gets many responses from the dias has been a long=
 time gripe of mine. The various perspectives of the I* members are somet=
imes interesting and valuable but it can consume a lot of meeting time. I=
MO, its a flaw of our plenary structure.  Perhaps folks can be more targe=
ted with who a question or comment is intended for.


My 0.02CAD.


--aaron


On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:32, Michael StJohns wrote:





  

    
Hi Alissa - 

    

    


    

    
Given the hard stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,=C2=A0 I propose that we =
move
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 If we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefer to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.=C2=A0 I'd also like to ask that as a general ma=
tter
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike

    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

      
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=
=80=99s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s=
 WG
        sessions. =C2=A0The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept=
 to
        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
Apologies for the late notice.=


      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            

              
________________________=
________

              
Portia
                    Wenze-Danley

              
IETF Administration LLC
                Executive Director (Interim)

              
(Formerly=C2=A0IETF
                Administrative Director (IAD)	

              
Internet Engineering
                Task Force (IETF)

              
              


              

              


              

              

            

          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      

    

    


    

  




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On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:32, Michael StJohns wrote:

> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting 
> the time of each speaker/questioner. 

-1. Many people have already been talking about dreading the expected 
long-winded "you should have done it this way" comments at the mic 
tonight.

Restricting of time each person gets has an obvious negative effect on 
the speakers who want to go on at length, but has a positive effect on 
the other 90%+ of the people in the room. I would prefer optimizing for 
the latter. Speakers who have more to say can use the ietf@ mailing list 
for long messages, and many already have.

--Paul Hoffman


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From: "Salz, Rich" 
To: Paul Hoffman , "ietf@ietf.org" 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, IAB , "The IESG" 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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From: "Livingood, Jason" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" , IAB , The IESG 
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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "Salz, Rich" 
Cc: "Paul Hoffman" , ietf@ietf.org, 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB , "The IESG" 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:11:35 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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I’m conflicted about this.  Time used for what might be speech-making 
from one person, could be a more nuanced point from another.  We keep 
saying we need to use our f2f time more efficiently.    Well, sometimes 
that means breadth and a lot of people providing quick input and it also 
can mean depth and giving folks enough time to say something clearly.  I 
think hard and fast rules like fixed time limits will prevent the latter 
(from both ends of the room).

YMMV, of course.

--aaron

On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:57, Salz, Rich wrote:

> I strongly agree with Paul.  A uniform time limit -- on both mic and 
> dais speakers -- is the only way to be fair. And the dais time-limit 
> should be total, otherwise a one-minute comment from the floor becomes 
> 10 minutes of response from the dais, which defeats the goal of 
> hearing community input.
>
> If that is, in fact, the goal.
>
>
> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--=_MailMate_57ABD367-BA15-4F71-9CE4-7FCF6A3DF069_=
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<=
p dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99m conflicted about this.  Time used for what mig=
ht be speech-making from one person, could be a more nuanced point from a=
nother.  We keep saying we need to use our f2f time more efficiently.    =
Well, sometimes that means breadth and a lot of people providing quick in=
put and it also can mean depth and giving folks enough time to say someth=
ing clearly.  I think hard and fast rules like fixed time limits will pre=
vent the latter (from both ends of the room).


YMMV, of course.


--aaron


On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:57, Salz, Rich wrote:


I strongly agree with Paul.  A unif=
orm time limit -- on both mic and dais speakers -- is the only way to be =
fair. And the dais time-limit should be total, otherwise a one-minute com=
ment from the floor becomes 10 minutes of response from the dais, which d=
efeats the goal of hearing community input.



If that is, in fact, the goal.





-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees








--=_MailMate_57ABD367-BA15-4F71-9CE4-7FCF6A3DF069_=--


From nobody Wed Jul 24 07:20:15 2019
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From: "Paul Hoffman" 
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:20:09 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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On 24 Jul 2019, at 10:11, Aaron Falk wrote:

> I’m conflicted about this.  Time used for what might be 
> speech-making from one person, could be a more nuanced point from 
> another.  We keep saying we need to use our f2f time more efficiently. 
>    Well, sometimes that means breadth and a lot of people providing 
> quick input and it also can mean depth and giving folks enough time to 
> say something clearly.  I think hard and fast rules like fixed time 
> limits will prevent the latter (from both ends of the room).

We fully agree on that. What we might not agree on is the value for the 
large number of listeners in the room spending time listening for 
whether a particular long-winded speaker is actually going into depth on 
something that has not already been said, either earlier in the mic line 
or in the extensive ietf@ list discussion that has already happened. 
Some of us prefer to optimize for that much larger set of listeners, 
particularly in light of the fact that the mailing list will certainly 
be a good way for new points brought up succinctly tonight to be 
discussed more fully.

Restricting speakers' time when there are a lot of contributors does not 
mean not hearing what they have to say; for many of us listeners, it in 
fact can mean exactly the opposite.

--Paul Hoffman


From nobody Wed Jul 24 07:22:15 2019
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To: Paul Hoffman , ietf@ietf.org
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB , The IESG 
References: <556DAC1F-F4EB-4986-AFF2-F616376F77C3@ietf.org> <9f207e34-ed63-610c-98c9-7ef7a4543d42@comcast.net> 
From: Brian E Carpenter 
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 02:21:30 +1200
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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On 25-Jul-19 01:52, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2019, at 9:32, Michael StJohns wrote:
>=20
>> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting=20
>> the time of each speaker/questioner.=C2=A0
>=20
> -1. Many people have already been talking about dreading the expected=20
> long-winded "you should have done it this way" comments at the mic=20
> tonight.

Really? I agree that comments and questions should not be long-winded,
but I don't think that is Mike's intention. It's a matter of symmetry:
if the meeting is to serve a constructive purpose, a one minute question
or comment should get a one minute answer, not 5 or more often repetitiou=
s
answers (as we've seen in the past). In other words, no time wasting, eit=
her
on the floor or on the dais.

It's already difficult enough if we overrun the schedule, because many
people have prior commitments at 8 p.m.=20

    Brian

> Restricting of time each person gets has an obvious negative effect on =

> the speakers who want to go on at length, but has a positive effect on =

> the other 90%+ of the people in the room. I would prefer optimizing for=
=20
> the latter. Speakers who have more to say can use the ietf@ mailing lis=
t=20
> for long messages, and many already have.
>=20
> --Paul Hoffman
>=20
> .
>=20


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From: Ted Lemon 
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To: "Livingood, Jason" 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Plenary & RSE - Maximize Value of Discussion
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--Apple-Mail=_ACAFE418-743F-43C4-9CF6-F8F7183C85DB
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Jason, the problem is that it doesn=E2=80=99t feel from the perspective =
of an onlooker that there has been honest discussion about what went =
wrong.   I don=E2=80=99t mean that anybody is lying=E2=80=94I just mean =
that there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to have been a lot of introspection, and =
so the answers that we=E2=80=99ve heard don=E2=80=99t actually explain =
how this happened.

The problem with that is not that we need to find a scapegoat or blame =
someone for what happened, but rather that if this reflection has not =
happened=E2=80=94and it seems very, very clear at the moment that it has =
not=E2=80=94then there is no chance that any process moving forward can =
actually succeed.   I mean sure, we=E2=80=99ll hire a new RSE, but since =
we don=E2=80=99t know why we lost the current RSE, we don=E2=80=99t know =
that the new RSE will not be in the same situation as the previous one.=20=


And since we don=E2=80=99t know what actually led to the RSE being =
micromanaged, we don=E2=80=99t know if we agree with whatever agenda the =
folks micromanaging her had in doing so.   We don=E2=80=99t even know if =
this was intentional.   We really have no idea how this went so badly =
wrong.

So yes, it would be great to talk about how to move forward, but part of =
=E2=80=9Chow to move forward=E2=80=9D is getting clarity on exactly what =
it is that our leadership and community want.   We can=E2=80=99t just =
skip that step.


--Apple-Mail=_ACAFE418-743F-43C4-9CF6-F8F7183C85DB
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Jason, the problem is that it doesn=E2=80=99t feel from the =
perspective of an onlooker that there has been honest =
discussion about what went wrong.   I don=E2=80=99t mean that =
anybody is lying=E2=80=94I just mean that there doesn=E2=80=99t seem to =
have been a lot of introspection, and so the answers that we=E2=80=99ve =
heard don=E2=80=99t actually explain how this happened.
The problem with that is not that we =
need to find a scapegoat or blame someone for what happened, but rather =
that if this reflection has not happened=E2=80=94and it seems very, very =
clear at the moment that it has not=E2=80=94then there is no chance that =
any process moving forward can actually succeed.   I mean sure, =
we=E2=80=99ll hire a new RSE, but since we don=E2=80=99t know why we =
lost the current RSE, we don=E2=80=99t know that the new RSE will not be =
in the same situation as the previous one. 

And since we don=E2=80=99t know what =
actually led to the RSE being micromanaged, we don=E2=80=99t know if we =
agree with whatever agenda the folks micromanaging her had in doing so. =
  We don=E2=80=99t even know if this was intentional.   We =
really have no idea how this went so badly wrong.
So yes, it would be great to talk =
about how to move forward, but part of =E2=80=9Chow to move forward=E2=80=9D=
 is getting clarity on exactly what it is that our leadership and =
community want.   We can=E2=80=99t just skip that step.

=

--Apple-Mail=_ACAFE418-743F-43C4-9CF6-F8F7183C85DB--


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To: "Livingood, Jason" , "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" , IAB , The IESG 
References: <9A3A4383-3D05-489D-8A07-191E02438B8B@cable.comcast.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Plenary & RSE - Maximize Value of Discussion
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On 25-Jul-19 02:03, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> (LLC hat off =E2=80=93 personal opinion)
> Many opinions and views have already been expressed on the mailing list=
 in the past several weeks. In my personal view, the 'what' and 'why' has=
 been explored and discussed extensively. I don't think rehashing that wi=
ll bring much value to the community, momentarily satisfying though it ma=
y seem.=20

I wish, I really wish, I could agree with you. But there are still unansw=
ered questions.

> Rather, in order to maximize the precious value of the mic time at the =
plenary, I think it would be most interesting for people to express their=
 views on what should happen next - both in the near-term and long-term. =
It seems some rather fundamental questions about how to proceed in the fu=
ture have been raised and this is where community views would be highly v=
aluable.

That's true too. But one way to avoid future mistakes is to fully underst=
and past mistakes. Are we at that point yet, as a community?

   Brian
=20


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From: Kyle Rose 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:29:13 -0400
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To: Brian E Carpenter 
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As a brief aside, this:

if the meeting is to serve a constructive purpose, a one minute question
> or comment should get a one minute answer, not 5 or more often repetitious
> answers (as we've seen in the past).
>

should be guidance for every plenary, not just this one.

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As a brief aside, this:


if the meeting is to serve a constructive purpose, a one minute question

or comment should get a one minute answer, not 5 or more often repetitious

answers (as we've seen in the past).

should be guidance for every plenary, not just this one.



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From: Alissa Cooper 
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To: Michael StJohns 
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Hi Mike,

Thanks for these suggestions. The various parties listed on the plenary =
agenda are in discussion about this and I=E2=80=99ll get back to you =
shortly.

Regards,
Alissa


> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns  =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alissa -=20
>=20
> Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE =
discussion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  =
I propose that we move the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the =
open mic period, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that =
session.   If we have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG =
take the stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to =
the mailing list.
>=20
> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting =
the time of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a =
general matter of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB =
responders to a given question to the smallest number necessary in the =
interests of getting as much community input as possible.=20
>=20
> Thanks - Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
>> All,
>>=20
>>=20
>> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s =
administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to =
begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  =
The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can =
maximize time for open mic.
>>=20
>> Apologies for the late notice.
>>=20
>> Thank you.
>>=20
>> ________________________________
>> Portia Wenze-Danley
>> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
>> (Formerly IETF Administrative Director (IAD)=09
>> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
>> pwdanley@ietf.org 
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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Hi =
Mike,

Thanks for =
these suggestions. The various parties listed on the plenary agenda are =
in discussion about this and I=E2=80=99ll get back to you =
shortly.

Regards,
Alissa


On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote:


 =20
    
 =20
  

    
Hi Alissa - 

    

    


    

    
Given the hard stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I propose that we =
move
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that =
session.   If we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefer to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general =
matter
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike

    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

      
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that =
tonight=E2=80=99s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s =
WG
        sessions.  The chair has asked plenary presentations be =
kept to
        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
Apologies for the late notice.

      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            

              
________________________________

              
Portia
                    Wenze-Danley

              
IETF Administration LLC
                Executive Director (Interim)

              
(Formerly IETF
                Administrative Director (IAD)	

              
Internet Engineering
                Task Force (IETF)

              
pwdanley@ietf.org

              


              

              


              

              

            

          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      

    


    

  




=

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From: Ted Hardie 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:31:13 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Michael StJohns 
Cc: Alissa Cooper , 105attendees@ietf.org, IAB , The IESG , IETF 
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Hi Mike,

 We'd put the IAB/RSE discussion at the end so it could have the balance of
time; we weren't aware of the hard stop from the hotel until this morning.
As you just heard from Alissa, we're talking about what adjustments we can
make at this stage.   We're already working to keep the administrative
presentations short, to recover as much time as possible.  We may be able
to do more, and Alissa will announce it when a plan comes together.

On your point about IAB responses, our intent for the RSE discussion is to
listen and to ask questions as much as possible.  We'll obviously answer
any questions, but we will try to keep that short so that we can focus on
listening to the community about how to make this better.    Given that the
hard stop is over an hour after the scheduled end of the plenary, I'm
hopeful that the combination will give us the time we need to get a good
start on the discussion on this.  As I said to John, we also believe that
this conversation will need to continue past the plenary to include the
audiences that he pointed out are not with us in Montreal.

As the IAB is the group accountable to the community, we will be on the
stage, including Heather and the IAB members of the RSOC.  The rest of the
RSOC will be attending the plenary, and may be able to give clarifications
from the floor for points where the timeline or facts need elucidation.

regards,

Ted


On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:32 AM Michael StJohns 
wrote:

> Hi Alissa -
>
> Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE
> discussion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I
> propose that we move the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the ope=
n
> mic period, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.   If
> we have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the stage at
> that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to the mailing list.
>
> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting the
> time of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general
> matter of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
> given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests of getti=
ng
> as much community input as possible.
>
> Thanks - Mike
>
>
>
> On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s administrati=
ve
> plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up th=
e
> room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  The chair has asked ple=
nary
> presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.
>
> Apologies for the late notice.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ________________________________
> *Portia Wenze-Danley*
> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
> (*Formerly* IETF Administrative Director (IAD)
> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
> pwdanley@ietf.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000d754a2058e6e2aae
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Mike,

=
=C2=A0We'd put the IAB/RSE discussion=20
at the end so it could have the balance of time; we weren't aware of th=
e
 hard stop from the hotel until this morning.=C2=A0 As you just heard from =
Alissa, we're talking about what adjustments we can make at this stage.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 We're already working to keep the
 administrative presentations short, to recover as much time as=20
possible.=C2=A0 We may be able to do more, and Alissa will announce it when=
 a plan comes together.

On your point about IAB=20
responses, our intent for the RSE discussion is to listen and to ask=20
questions as much as possible.=C2=A0 We'll obviously answer any questio=
ns, but we will try to keep that short so that we can focus on listening to=
 the community about how to make this better.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Given that =
the hard stop is over an hour
 after the scheduled end of the plenary, I'm hopeful that the=20
combination will give us the time we need to get a good start on the discus=
sion on=20
this.=C2=A0 As I said to John, we also believe that this conversation will=
=20
need to continue past the plenary to include the audiences that he=20
pointed out are not with us in Montreal.

As the
 IAB is the group accountable to the community, we will be on the stage,
 including Heather and the IAB members of the RSOC.=C2=A0 The rest of the=
=20
RSOC will be attending the plenary, and may be able to give=20
clarifications from the floor for points where the timeline or facts need e=
lucidation.=C2=A0 

regards,

Ted


On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:32 AM Mi=
chael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.=
net> wrote:

 =20
   =20
 =20
  

    
Hi Alissa - <=
br>
    

    


    

    
Given the har=
d stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,=C2=A0 I propose that we mo=
ve
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
If we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefe=
r to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.=C2=A0 I'd also like to ask that as a general =
matter
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike=


    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 =
7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

     =20
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s W=
G
        sessions.=C2=A0 The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept t=
o
        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
Apologies for the late notice.<=
/span>

      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            

              
________________________________

              
Portia
                    Wenze-Danley

              
IETF Administration LLC
                Executive Director (Interim)

              
(Formerly=C2=A0IE=
TF
                Administrative Director (IAD)	

              
Internet Engineering
                Task Force (IETF)

              
              


              

              


              

              

            

          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      
<=
/fieldset>
    

    


    

  





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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "Deen, Glenn" , "Livingood, Jason" 
Cc: "105 attendees" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:22:06 -0400
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Last night was one of the most delightful social events I’ve attended 
at the IETF.  Great venue with lovely views of Montreal, lots of food & 
wine, space, seating and giant Jenga. Of course, the beautiful weather 
helped. All-in-all it was just great.

Many thanks to Glenn, Jason, Marcia and everyone else involved in the 
planning. You know how to put on a party!

--aaron
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<=
p dir=3D"auto">Last night was one of the most delightful social events I=E2=
=80=99ve attended at the IETF.  Great venue with lovely views of Montreal=
, lots of food & wine, space, seating and giant Jenga. Of course, the=
 beautiful weather helped. All-in-all it was just great.  


Many thanks to Glenn, Jason, Marcia and everyone else inv=
olved in the planning. You know how to put on a party!


--aaron








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Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Thanks, Comcast-NBC-Universal!
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Yep, it was great fun!

At some point I was missing some background music, but other than that;
really good!

--
Marco


On 24/07/2019 11:22, Aaron Falk wrote:


> Last night was one of the most delightful social events I=E2=80=99ve at=
tended at
> the IETF. Great venue with lovely views of Montreal, lots of food &
> wine, space, seating and giant Jenga. Of course, the beautiful weather
> helped. All-in-all it was just great.
>=20
> Many thanks to Glenn, Jason, Marcia and everyone else involved in the
> planning. You know how to put on a party!
>=20
> --aaron


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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:25:31 -0400
From: John C Klensin 
To: "Livingood, Jason" , 105attendees@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, IAB , The IESG 
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--On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 14:03 +0000 "Livingood, Jason"
 wrote:

> (LLC hat off =E2=80=93 personal opinion)
> Many opinions and views have already been expressed on the
> mailing list in the past several weeks. In my personal view,
> the 'what' and 'why' has been explored and discussed
> extensively. I don't think rehashing that will bring much
> value to the community, momentarily satisfying though it may
> seem.=20

Jason,

Both from my own perspective and from observing the mailing list
discussions, I think there is a key difference between the
discussions of  this topic cluster and many issues that have
been discussed at similar or equal length on the mailing list.
That is that a number of critical questions have been asked and
asked repeatedly and never really answered.  I hope and presume
that is at least mostly because the questioners and those being
asked have never quite understood each other about the questions
and/or how the answers related to them.  We've also seen
extended email threads in which misunderstandings continue and
get amplified rather than disappear; possibly this has been an
example.  For such situations, I don't know any substitute for a
good interactive discussion in which artificial constraints are
minimized.

That is also important to your suggestion as to how to move
forward because at least some of the questions about what
happened and why are key to figuring out what should be done
next and who should do it.   Even if we take the recent notes
and the draft SOW as given, a better mutual understanding is
critical to answering some of the questions Ted posed in his
note.

best,
    john





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From: Ole Jacobsen 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Thanks, Comcast-NBC-Universal!
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The lack of background music was a huge POSITIVE for me, since =
=E2=80=9Cbackground=E2=80=9D is almost=20
never that, just more noise that makes conversation more difficult. =
Being able to sit
(or walk) outside was wonderful. Thanks again to our hosts! My guest, a =
pipe organ builder
based here in Montreal said he met a lot of =E2=80=9Cdelightful=E2=80=9D =
people at the social. I guess we
make better impressions in person than on some mailing lists :-)

Ole

> On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:24, Marco Davids =
 wrote:
>=20
> Yep, it was great fun!
>=20
> At some point I was missing some background music, but other than =
that;
> really good!
>=20
> --
> Marco
>=20



Ole J. Jacobsen=20
Editor and Publisher
Home: +1 415-550-9427
Cell: +1 415-370-4628
Japan Docomo: +81 90 3337-9311
UK Orange: +44 7805 977889
E-mail: olejacobsen@me.com
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Skype: organdemo


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From: Alissa Cooper 
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To: Michael StJohns 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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Hi Mike,

To maximize the amount of time available for the IAB open mic, we=E2=80=99=
ll have a 10-minute limit each for the LLC Board and IESG open mic =
sessions, and a 20-minute hard stop for both combined if the first one =
is shorter than 10 minutes. The remainder of the open mic time (likely =
on the order of 100 minutes) will be for the IAB open mic. We are aware =
of some topics the community may want to raise during the LLC Board and =
IESG open mics so we feel it is important to allocate some time to =
those. To maximize the number of comments/questions during the IESG open =
mic, the IESG is planning to have a single AD respondent to each =
comment/question unless there is some very relevant fact that the =
respondent fails to mention.

The IETF Trust will not be providing a report during the reporting =
section, so that will make the reporting section shorter, and I=E2=80=99ve=
 asked all other speakers providing reports to minimize their time. I =
have removed slides from the IETF Chair report already and I believe =
Portia has removed slides from her report as well.

Best,
Alissa


> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns  =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alissa -=20
>=20
> Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE =
discussion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  =
I propose that we move the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the =
open mic period, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that =
session.   If we have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG =
take the stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to =
the mailing list.
>=20
> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting =
the time of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a =
general matter of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB =
responders to a given question to the smallest number necessary in the =
interests of getting as much community input as possible.=20
>=20
> Thanks - Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
>> All,
>>=20
>>=20
>> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s =
administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to =
begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  =
The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can =
maximize time for open mic.
>>=20
>> Apologies for the late notice.
>>=20
>> Thank you.
>>=20
>> ________________________________
>> Portia Wenze-Danley
>> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
>> (Formerly IETF Administrative Director (IAD)=09
>> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
>> pwdanley@ietf.org 
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_CD1339C4-E74A-443F-AFBE-DF7036B21A3D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Hi =
Mike,

To maximize =
the amount of time available for the IAB open mic, we=E2=80=99ll have a =
10-minute limit each for the LLC Board and IESG open mic sessions, and a =
20-minute hard stop for both combined if the first one is shorter than =
10 minutes. The remainder of the open mic time (likely on the order of =
100 minutes) will be for the IAB open mic. We are aware of some topics =
the community may want to raise during the LLC Board and IESG open mics =
so we feel it is important to allocate some time to those. To maximize =
the number of comments/questions during the IESG open mic, the IESG is =
planning to have a single AD respondent to each comment/question unless =
there is some very relevant fact that the respondent fails to =
mention.

The =
IETF Trust will not be providing a report during the reporting section, =
so that will make the reporting section shorter, and I=E2=80=99ve asked =
all other speakers providing reports to minimize their time. I have =
removed slides from the IETF Chair report already and I believe Portia =
has removed slides from her report as well.

Best,
Alissa


On Jul =
24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote:


 =20
    
 =20
  

    
Hi Alissa - 

    

    


    

    
Given the hard stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I propose that we =
move
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that =
session.   If we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefer to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general =
matter
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike

    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

      
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that =
tonight=E2=80=99s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s =
WG
        sessions.  The chair has asked plenary presentations be =
kept to
        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
Apologies for the late notice.

      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            

              
________________________________

              
Portia
                    Wenze-Danley

              
IETF Administration LLC
                Executive Director (Interim)

              
(Formerly IETF
                Administrative Director (IAD)	

              
Internet Engineering
                Task Force (IETF)

              
pwdanley@ietf.org

              


              

              


              

              

            

          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      

    


    

  




=

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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Plenary & RSE - Maximize Value of Discussion
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Brian: =20

I still do not fully understand the "what" and "why".   It seems =
important to me to hear those things directly.=20

Sue=20

-----Original Message-----
From: 105attendees [mailto:105attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Brian E Carpenter
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 10:27 AM
To: Livingood, Jason; 105attendees@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; IAB; The =
IESG
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Plenary & RSE - Maximize Value of Discussion

On 25-Jul-19 02:03, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> (LLC hat off =E2=80=93 personal opinion)
> Many opinions and views have already been expressed on the mailing =
list in the past several weeks. In my personal view, the 'what' and =
'why' has been explored and discussed extensively. I don't think =
rehashing that will bring much value to the community, momentarily =
satisfying though it may seem.=20

I wish, I really wish, I could agree with you. But there are still =
unanswered questions.

> Rather, in order to maximize the precious value of the mic time at the =
plenary, I think it would be most interesting for people to express =
their views on what should happen next - both in the near-term and =
long-term. It seems some rather fundamental questions about how to =
proceed in the future have been raised and this is where community views =
would be highly valuable.

That's true too. But one way to avoid future mistakes is to fully =
understand past mistakes. Are we at that point yet, as a community?

   Brian
=20

--=20
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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Aaron Falk  wrote:
    > I=E2=80=99m conflicted about this. Time used for what might be speech=
-making
    > from one person, could be a more nuanced point from another. We keep
    > saying we need to use our f2f time more efficiently. Well, sometimes
    > that means breadth and a lot of people providing quick input and it
    > also can mean depth and giving folks enough time to say something
    > clearly. I think hard and fast rules like fixed time limits will
    > prevent the latter (from both ends of the room).

Maybe we need "+1" paddles people can raise.
Or people could be asked humm if they agree or disagree.


=2D-=20
Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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To: Michael Richardson 
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On Jul 24, 2019, at 12:29 PM, Michael Richardson  =
wrote:
> Or people could be asked humm if they agree or disagree.


I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn=E2=80=99t =
going to work well.

It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we =
would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum =E2=80=9CI feel that =
this answer was adequate=E2=80=9D and then =E2=80=9CI feel this answer =
is not complete, please continue.=E2=80=9D


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On =
Jul 24, 2019, at 12:29 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
Or people could be asked humm if they agree or =
disagree.

I think any kind of solution that =
involves peer pressure isn=E2=80=99t going to work well.

It might make sense for =
us to agree in advance to some questions we would like answered, and =
then ask the crowd to hum =E2=80=9CI feel that this answer was =
adequate=E2=80=9D and then =E2=80=9CI feel this answer is not complete, =
please continue.=E2=80=9D

=

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From: "Dean Bogdanovic" 
To: "Ole Jacobsen" 
Cc: "Marco Davids" , 105attendees@ietf.org, "Ole Jacobsen" 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:44:38 -0400
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I join to congratulations on social event. The games were lot of fun and 
iron pressed sandwiches with freshly picked salad was an experience to 
remember.

On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:29, Ole Jacobsen wrote:

> The lack of background music was a huge POSITIVE for me, since 
> “background” is almost
> never that, just more noise that makes conversation more difficult. 
> Being able to sit
> (or walk) outside was wonderful. Thanks again to our hosts! My guest, 
> a pipe organ builder
> based here in Montreal said he met a lot of “delightful” people at 
> the social. I guess we
> make better impressions in person than on some mailing lists :-)
>
> Ole
>
>> On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:24, Marco Davids 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Yep, it was great fun!
>>
>> At some point I was missing some background music, but other than 
>> that;
>> really good!
>>
>> --
>> Marco
>>
>
>
>
> Ole J. Jacobsen
> Editor and Publisher
> Home: +1 415-550-9427
> Cell: +1 415-370-4628
> Japan Docomo: +81 90 3337-9311
> UK Orange: +44 7805 977889
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> URL: http://organdemo.info
> Skype: organdemo
>
> -- 
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From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" 
To: Dean Bogdanovic , Ole Jacobsen 
CC: 105attendees <105attendees@ietf.org>, Ole Jacobsen , Marco Davids 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] finding my glasses and Thanks to Comcast-NBC-Universal!
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Indeed! the social event is really interesting! Hope to have that in each I=
ETF meeting.

Btw, I am looking for my shot sight glasses with black legs.

Hope to have the good news from guys. Many thanks!

Cheng



________________________________
=1B$BM{Dh=1B(B Cheng Li
Mobile: +86-15116983550
Email: chengli13@huawei.com



From: Dean Bogdanovic>
To: Ole Jacobsen>
Cc: 105attendees<105attendees@ietf.org>;Ole J=
acobsen>;Marco Davids>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] Thanks, Comcast-NBC-Universal!
Time: 2019-07-24 12:45:07

I join to congratulations on social event. The games were lot of fun and
iron pressed sandwiches with freshly picked salad was an experience to
remember.

On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:29, Ole Jacobsen wrote:

> The lack of background music was a huge POSITIVE for me, since
> =1B$B!H=1B(Bbackground=1B$B!I=1B(B is almost
> never that, just more noise that makes conversation more difficult.
> Being able to sit
> (or walk) outside was wonderful. Thanks again to our hosts! My guest,
> a pipe organ builder
> based here in Montreal said he met a lot of =1B$B!H=1B(Bdelightful=1B$B!I=
=1B(B people at
> the social. I guess we
> make better impressions in person than on some mailing lists :-)
>
> Ole
>
>> On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:24, Marco Davids
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Yep, it was great fun!
>>
>> At some point I was missing some background music, but other than
>> that;
>> really good!
>>
>> --
>> Marco
>>
>
>
>
> Ole J. Jacobsen
> Editor and Publisher
> Home: +1 415-550-9427
> Cell: +1 415-370-4628
> Japan Docomo: +81 90 3337-9311
> UK Orange: +44 7805 977889
> E-mail: olejacobsen@me.com
> URL: http://organdemo.info
> Skype: organdemo
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
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--_000_C7C2E1C43D652C4E9E49FE7517C236CB0264CB92dggeml509mbschi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp"
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Indeed! the social e=
vent is really interesting! Hope to have that in each IETF meeting.



Btw, I am looking for my shot sight glasses with black legs.



Hope to have the good news from guys. Many thanks!



Cheng









=1B$BM{Dh=1B(B Cheng Li

Mobile: +86-15116983550 

Email: chengli13@huawei.com












I join to congratulations on social event. The gam=
es were lot of fun and


iron pressed sandwiches with freshly picked salad was an experience to 

remember.



On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:29, Ole Jacobsen wrote:



> The lack of background music was a huge POSITIVE for me, since 

> =1B$B!H=1B(Bbackground=1B$B!I=1B(B is almost

> never that, just more noise that makes conversation more difficult. 
> Being able to sit

> (or walk) outside was wonderful. Thanks again to our hosts! My guest, =


> a pipe organ builder

> based here in Montreal said he met a lot of =1B$B!H=1B(Bdelightful=1B$=
B!I=1B(B people at 

> the social. I guess we

> make better impressions in person than on some mailing lists :-)

>

> Ole

>

>> On 24 Jul 2019, at 11:24, Marco Davids 

>> <Marco.Davids=3D40sidn.nl@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

>>

>> Yep, it was great fun!

>>

>> At some point I was missing some background music, but other than =


>> that;

>> really good!

>>

>> --

>> Marco

>>

>

>

>

> Ole J. Jacobsen

> Editor and Publisher

> Home: +1 415-550-9427

> Cell: +1 415-370-4628

> Japan Docomo: +81 90 3337-9311

> UK Orange: +44 7805 977889

> E-mail: olejacobsen@me.com

> URL: http://organdemo.info

> Skype: organdemo

>

> -- 

> 105attendees mailing list

> 105attendees@ietf.org

> https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

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ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees







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From: Mike StJohns 
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To: Alissa Cooper 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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WFM.  Thanks.  Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 24, 2019, at 12:05, Alissa Cooper  wrote:
>=20
> Hi Mike,
>=20
> To maximize the amount of time available for the IAB open mic, we=E2=80=99=
ll have a 10-minute limit each for the LLC Board and IESG open mic sessions,=
 and a 20-minute hard stop for both combined if the first one is shorter tha=
n 10 minutes. The remainder of the open mic time (likely on the order of 100=
 minutes) will be for the IAB open mic. We are aware of some topics the comm=
unity may want to raise during the LLC Board and IESG open mics so we feel i=
t is important to allocate some time to those. To maximize the number of com=
ments/questions during the IESG open mic, the IESG is planning to have a sin=
gle AD respondent to each comment/question unless there is some very relevan=
t fact that the respondent fails to mention.
>=20
> The IETF Trust will not be providing a report during the reporting section=
, so that will make the reporting section shorter, and I=E2=80=99ve asked al=
l other speakers providing reports to minimize their time. I have removed sl=
ides from the IETF Chair report already and I believe Portia has removed sli=
des from her report as well.
>=20
> Best,
> Alissa
>=20
>=20
>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns  wrote=
:
>>=20
>> Hi Alissa -=20
>>=20
>> Given the hard stop time for the plenary, the importance of the RSE discu=
ssion and (AFAICT) the lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I propose=
 that we move the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic peri=
od, and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.   If we have ti=
me left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the stage at that time - o=
therwise those topics can be addressed to the mailing list.
>>=20
>> I would prefer to do this rather than be heavy handed in restricting the t=
ime of each speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general matt=
er of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a given qu=
estion to the smallest number necessary in the interests of getting as much c=
ommunity input as possible.=20
>>=20
>> Thanks - Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia Wenze-Danley wrote:
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s administrat=
ive plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up t=
he room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  The chair has asked ple=
nary presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic=
.
>>>=20
>>> Apologies for the late notice.
>>>=20
>>> Thank you.
>>>=20
>>> ________________________________
>>> Portia Wenze-Danley
>>> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
>>> (Formerly IETF Administrative Director (IAD)=09
>>> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
>>> pwdanley@ietf.org
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20

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WFM.  Thanks.  Mike

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 24, 2019, at 12:05, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> wrote:

Hi Mike,

To maximize the amount of time available for the IAB open mic, we=E2=80=
=99ll have a 10-minute limit each for the LLC Board and IESG open mic sessio=
ns, and a 20-minute hard stop for both combined if the first one is shorter t=
han 10 minutes. The remainder of the open mic time (likely on the order of 1=
00 minutes) will be for the IAB open mic. We are aware of some topics the co=
mmunity may want to raise during the LLC Board and IESG open mics so we feel=
 it is important to allocate some time to those. To maximize the number of c=
omments/questions during the IESG open mic, the IESG is planning to have a s=
ingle AD respondent to each comment/question unless there is some very relev=
ant fact that the respondent fails to mention.

The IETF Trust will not be providing a report d=
uring the reporting section, so that will make the reporting section shorter=
, and I=E2=80=99ve asked all other speakers providing reports to minimize th=
eir time. I have removed slides from the IETF Chair report already and I bel=
ieve Portia has removed slides from her report as well.

Best,
Alissa


On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Michael StJohns &l=
t;mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote:


 =20
    
 =20
  

    
Hi Alissa - 

    

    


    

    
Given the hard stop time for the
      plenary, the importance of the RSE discussion and (AFAICT) the
      lack of other similar topics for the IESG,  I propose that we mov=
e
      the IAB open mic session to the beginning of the open mic period,
      and seat the LLC and RSOC with the IAB for that session.   I=
f we
      have time left over and topics, we can have the IESG take the
      stage at that time - otherwise those topics can be addressed to
      the mailing list.

    


    

    
I would prefer to do this rather than
      be heavy handed in restricting the time of each
      speaker/questioner.  I'd also like to ask that as a general matte=
r
      of course the IAB try to limit the number of IAB responders to a
      given question to the smallest number necessary in the interests
      of getting as much community input as possible. 

    

    


    

    
Thanks - Mike

    


    

    


    

    


    

    
On 7/24/2019 7:54 AM, Portia
      Wenze-Danley wrote:

    

    

      
      
All,

      


      

      


      

      
The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=
=99s
        administrative plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their
        staff to begin setting up the room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG=

        sessions.  The chair has asked plenary presentations be kept to=

        a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.

      


      

      
=
Apologies for the late notice.

      


      

      
Thank you.

      


      

      

        

          

            
          

          

        

        

        

      

      

      

      

    


    

  




=

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Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
> I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn’t going to work well.
> 
> It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum “I feel that this answer was adequate” and then “I feel this answer is not complete, please continue.”

I disagree with 7282.  I think humming is an awful approach to expressing
dis-/interest in any topic.  1) remote attendees can not hum, nor those
on maillists to which any question must be referred, and as/if there is a
move toward more remote participation then even fewer can hum.  2) anonymity
doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanation nor to attempt
to persuade.  3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting in
nothing learned or the person with the largest diaphragm wins.

Humming should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems.

This humming ritual should end.


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To: john heasley , Ted Lemon 
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References: <556DAC1F-F4EB-4986-AFF2-F616376F77C3@ietf.org> <9f207e34-ed63-610c-98c9-7ef7a4543d42@comcast.net>  <52017F86-D123-48B1-8A08-1E4C885C80A2@akamai.com> <20422AA6-BED4-4A7F-9083-1F9653BDD6CC@gmail.com> <16238.1563985779@dooku.sandelman.ca>  <20190724173723.GG70671@shrubbery.net>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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On 7/24/2019 1:37 PM, john heasley wrote:
> Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
>> I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn’t going to work well.
>>
>> It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum “I feel that this answer was adequate” and then “I feel this answer is not complete, please continue.”
> I disagree with 7282.  I think humming is an awful approach to expressing
> dis-/interest in any topic.  1) remote attendees can not hum, nor those
> on maillists to which any question must be referred, and as/if there is a
> move toward more remote participation then even fewer can hum.  2) anonymity
> doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanation nor to attempt
> to persuade.  3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting in
> nothing learned or the person with the largest diaphragm wins.
>
> Humming should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems.
>
> This humming ritual should end.

It also doesn't work for those of us who have (albeit mild, in my case) 
hearing issues.

When chairing, I always ask for hands and repeat back the results for 
the audio/record.  I/we never report counts, just relative results 
(e.g., a few, more, a good number, many, etc.)

Lou

>
>


From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:10:13 2019
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Subject: [105attendees] Note: Dual Etherpads at IETF 105
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If you go to the IETF agenda page =
 and find (just to =
pick an example) the TEEP meeting, and click on the =E2=80=9CEtherpad =
for note-takers=E2=80=9D button, it takes you to:



If you go to the TEEP agenda page =
 =
it tells you the Etherpad page is this:



Notice the =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the ietf.org domain =
name in the second link.

If you click on the two Etherpad links above, you will see there are two =
*different* versions of the Etherpad notes for that meeting.

Many of the individual working group agenda pages list an Etherpad URL =
with =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the host name, so perhaps =
this was a last-minute change that didn=E2=80=99t propagate to all the =
individual working group agenda pages?

When using Etherpad to take shared notes for a meeting, take care to use =
the right one.

I assume the =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D one is the one listed on the IETF =
agenda page, without =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the host =
name.

Stuart Cheshire


From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:12:28 2019
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From: "Pete Resnick" 
To: "john heasley" 
Cc: "Ted Lemon" , 105attendees@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, IAB , "The IESG" 
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On 24 Jul 2019, at 13:37, john heasley wrote:

> Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
>> I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn’t 
>> going to work well.
>>
>> It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we 
>> would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum “I feel that 
>> this answer was adequate” and then “I feel this answer is not 
>> complete, please continue.”
>
> I disagree with 7282.  I think humming is an awful approach to 
> expressing
> dis-/interest in any topic.  1) remote attendees can not hum, nor 
> those
> on maillists to which any question must be referred, and as/if there 
> is a
> move toward more remote participation then even fewer can hum.  2) 
> anonymity
> doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanation nor to 
> attempt
> to persuade.  3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting in
> nothing learned or the person with the largest diaphragm wins.
>
> Humming should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems.
>
> This humming ritual should end.

In what way do you disagree with 7282? I think 7282 makes most of the 
points (in different ways) that you just made.

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick http://www.episteme.net/
All connections to the world are tenuous at best


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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:13:00 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: Susan Hares 
Cc: Brian E Carpenter ,  "Livingood, Jason" , 105attendees@ietf.org,  IETF list , IAB , The IESG 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea18ec058e7143e2"
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Plenary & RSE - Maximize Value of Discussion
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--000000000000ea18ec058e7143e2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi, Jason,

If it were possible to list the questions, that might be helpful. I'd bet I
spend more time looking at mailing lists where this has been discussed than
the average IETF attendee, but far less less I* and LLC board members, RSOC
members, etc.

For extra credit, if it were possible to summarize responses for each
question that's been responded to, that would be great.

And I wouldn't dare make this suggestion, expecting that anything on
tonight's slides would change. But we're still going to be thinking about
this tomorrow, so perhaps "within a few days" would still be helpful.

And best wishes tonight.

Spencer

--000000000000ea18ec058e7143e2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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Hi, Jason,=C2=A0
If it were possible to list the questions, that might be helpf=
ul. I'd bet I spend more time looking at mailing lists where this has b=
een discussed than the average IETF attendee, but far less less I* and LLC =
board members, RSOC members, etc.=C2=A0

For extra =
credit, if it were possible to summarize responses for each question that&#=
39;s been responded to, that=C2=A0would be great.

=
And I wouldn't dare make this suggestion, expecting that anything on to=
night's slides would change. But we're still going to be thinking a=
bout this tomorrow, so perhaps "within a few days" would still be=
 helpful.=C2=A0

And best wishes tonight.=C2=A0

Spencer


--000000000000ea18ec058e7143e2--


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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Note: Dual Etherpads at IETF 105
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FWIW, that wasn't my experience in TAPS; I reached the ether pad link =
from the Agenda page, and along with another notetaker, we were =
competing with dueling cursor flights :) Perhaps YMMV?

/S


> On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Stuart Cheshire =
 wrote:
>=20
> If you go to the IETF agenda page =
 and find (just to =
pick an example) the TEEP meeting, and click on the =E2=80=9CEtherpad =
for note-takers=E2=80=9D button, it takes you to:
>=20
> 
>=20
> If you go to the TEEP agenda page =
 =
it tells you the Etherpad page is this:
>=20
> 
>=20
> Notice the =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the ietf.org =
domain name in the second link.
>=20
> If you click on the two Etherpad links above, you will see there are =
two *different* versions of the Etherpad notes for that meeting.
>=20
> Many of the individual working group agenda pages list an Etherpad URL =
with =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the host name, so perhaps =
this was a last-minute change that didn=E2=80=99t propagate to all the =
individual working group agenda pages?
>=20
> When using Etherpad to take shared notes for a meeting, take care to =
use the right one.
>=20
> I assume the =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D one is the one listed on the IETF =
agenda page, without =E2=80=9Ctools=E2=80=9D in the middle of the host =
name.
>=20
> Stuart Cheshire
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


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From: "M. Glanowska" 
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:46:16 -0700
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: [105attendees] Trevor Noah on Friday
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If you are looking for something to do on Friday, July 28th in the =
evening, you may want to check out a life performance of Trevor Noah - =
the current host of The Daily Show. Tickets can be purchased on the =
following website: https://www.hahaha.com/en/show/trevor-noah-loud-clear

Enjoy!=20


Maggie Glanowska



From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:52:59 2019
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To: Stuart Cheshire , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <68DC802B-6B29-4ADA-81D7-E53BF276A2CB@stuartcheshire.org>
From: Lou Berger 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Note: Dual Etherpads at IETF 105
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this is totally annoying - we had two different etherpads for the same 
WG running for a bit yesterday before we noticed and combined.

Is there any reason to have two instances?  If not, it would be great if 
one redirected to the other.

Lou

On 7/24/2019 2:09 PM, Stuart Cheshire wrote:
> If you go to the IETF agenda page  and find (just to pick an example) the TEEP meeting, and click on the “Etherpad for note-takers” button, it takes you to:
>
> 
>
> If you go to the TEEP agenda page  it tells you the Etherpad page is this:
>
> 
>
> Notice the “tools” in the middle of the ietf.org domain name in the second link.
>
> If you click on the two Etherpad links above, you will see there are two *different* versions of the Etherpad notes for that meeting.
>
> Many of the individual working group agenda pages list an Etherpad URL with “tools” in the middle of the host name, so perhaps this was a last-minute change that didn’t propagate to all the individual working group agenda pages?
>
> When using Etherpad to take shared notes for a meeting, take care to use the right one.
>
> I assume the “right” one is the one listed on the IETF agenda page, without “tools” in the middle of the host name.
>
> Stuart Cheshire
>


From nobody Wed Jul 24 12:19:54 2019
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From: john heasley 
To: Pete Resnick 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, IAB , The IESG 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Agenda Bashing was Re: Administrative Plenary Time Constraint: Must End by 21:00
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Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 02:11:26PM -0400, Pete Resnick:
> In what way do you disagree with 7282? I think 7282 makes most of the 
> points (in different ways) that you just made.

In that it and only in that it, and 1603, posits that humming is
productive and should be used.  Not even to guide conversation, should
it be used, imo.


From nobody Wed Jul 24 12:33:07 2019
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From: Mary B 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:32:51 -0400
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To: john heasley 
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Humming is actually a very healthy thing to do:
http://thehealthylivinglounge.com/2009/08/06/12-instant-benefits-of-humming-daily/

Note benefits #2 and #7, so humming could very well help us to make better
decisions.

Regards,
Mary.

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:19 PM john heasley  wrote:

> Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 02:11:26PM -0400, Pete Resnick:
> > In what way do you disagree with 7282? I think 7282 makes most of the
> > points (in different ways) that you just made.
>
> In that it and only in that it, and 1603, posits that humming is
> productive and should be used.  Not even to guide conversation, should
> it be used, imo.
>
>

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Regards,
Mary.

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:19 =
PM john heasley <heas@shrubbery.ne=
t> wrote:
Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 02:11:26PM -0400, Pete Resnick:

> In what way do you disagree with 7282? I think 7282 makes most of the =


> points (in different ways) that you just made.



In that it and only in that it, and 1603, posits that humming is

productive and should be used.=C2=A0 Not even to guide conversation, should=


it be used, imo.






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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:42:47 +1000
From: "Bron Gondwana" 
To: 105attendees@ietf.org
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On Thu, Jul 25, 2019, at 03:51, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> On 7/24/2019 1:37 PM, john heasley wrote:
> > Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
> >> I think any kind of solution that involves peer pressure isn=E2=80=99=
t going to work well.
> >>
> >> It might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we=
 would like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum =E2=80=9CI feel that=
 this answer was adequate=E2=80=9D and then =E2=80=9CI feel this answer =
is not complete, please continue.=E2=80=9D
> > I disagree with 7282. I think humming is an awful approach to expres=
sing
> > dis-/interest in any topic. 1) remote attendees can not hum, nor tho=
se
> > on maillists to which any question must be referred, and as/if there=
 is a
> > move toward more remote participation then even fewer can hum. 2) an=
onymity
> > doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanation nor to=
 attempt
> > to persuade. 3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting i=
n
> > nothing learned or the person with the largest diaphragm wins.
> >
> > Humming should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems=
.
> >
> > This humming ritual should end.
>=20
> It also doesn't work for those of us who have (albeit mild, in my case=
)=20
> hearing issues.

This particular issue sounds like something which could be (at least the=
oretically) solved by having a "humming scribe" in the same way we have =
a minute taker and a jabber scribe (in the same way that a "vision scrib=
e" might be useful for shows of hands and a chair with mild vision issue=
s).

Cheers,

Bron.

--
 Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
 brong@fastmailteam.com


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On Thu, Jul 25, 2019, at 03:51, Lou Berger wrote:
<=
br>
On 7/24/2019 1:37 PM, john he=
asley wrote:
> Wed, Jul 24=
, 2019 at 12:39:20PM -0400, Ted Lemon:
>> I think any kind of solution that involves peer press=
ure isn=E2=80=99t going to work well.
>>
>> It=
 might make sense for us to agree in advance to some questions we would =
like answered, and then ask the crowd to hum =E2=80=9CI feel that this a=
nswer was adequate=E2=80=9D and then =E2=80=9CI feel this answer is not =
complete, please continue.=E2=80=9D
> I disagree with 7282.  I think humming is an awful appr=
oach to expressing
> dis-/=
interest in any topic.  1) remote attendees can not hum, nor those<=
br>
> on maillists to which an=
y question must be referred, and as/if there is a
> move toward more remote participation then eve=
n fewer can hum.  2) anonymity
> doesn't allow opponents (or proponent) to ask for explanatio=
n nor to attempt
> to pers=
uade.  3) non-, dis- & interest often sound equal, resulting in=

> nothing learned or the =
person with the largest diaphragm wins.
>
> Humming =
should not be used/seen as a solution to behavioral problems.
<=
div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">>
> This humming ritual should end.

It also doe=
sn't work for those of us who have (albeit mild, in my case) 
hearing issues.

This particular issue sounds like something which could be (at=
 least theoretically) solved by having a "humming scribe" in the same wa=
y we have a minute taker and a jabber scribe (in the same way that a "vi=
sion scribe" might be useful for shows of hands and a chair with mild vi=
sion issues).

Cheers,

Bron.

<=
div id=3D"sig56629417">
--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com



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From: Brian Dickson 
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:09:22 -0400
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To: Portia Wenze-Danley 
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ObHumo(u)r:

I read the subject line as "must end by 2100" (the year). :-)

Brian

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 7:54 AM Portia Wenze-Danley 
wrote:

> All,
>
>
> The hotel is informed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s administrati=
ve
> plenary must end by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up th=
e
> room for tomorrow morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.  The chair has asked ple=
nary
> presentations be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.
>
> Apologies for the late notice.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ________________________________
> *Portia Wenze-Danley*
> IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
> (*Formerly* IETF Administrative Director (IAD)
> Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
> pwdanley@ietf.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
>

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ObHumo(u)r:

I read the subject line as =
"must end by 2100" (the year). :-)

Brian=


On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 7:54 AM Portia Wenze-Danley <pwdanley@ietf.org> wrote:
All,


The hotel is info=
rmed the secretariat that tonight=E2=80=99s administrative plenary must end=
 by 21:00 in order for their staff to begin setting up the room for tomorro=
w morning=E2=80=99s WG sessions.=C2=A0 The chair has asked plenary presenta=
tions be kept to a minimum so we can maximize time for open mic.
=

Apologies for the late noti=
ce.

Thank you.



<=
div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
____=
____________________________
Portia Wenze-Danley
IETF Administration LLC Executive Director (Interim)
(Formerly=C2=A0IETF Adminis=
trative Director (IAD)	
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)







-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@iet=
f.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees=





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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:40:51 +0200
From: David Lamparter 
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Subject: [105attendees] (re. plenary) measuring privacy, trusting devices and verifiability
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Hi all,
(enter den of the lion)


I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.

The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
even compare the resulting binary.

And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
slicing open the chip.

It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
decision to trust or not.

In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
as the point relevant here is verifiability.

And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
span to FOSS availability on ."  If you want to throw your
data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.

So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
them to do a privacy analysis?

*HELL NO.*

The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.

Cheers,


-David


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To: David Lamparter , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <20190724224051.GQ258193@eidolon.nox.tf>
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] (re. plenary) measuring privacy, trusting devices and verifiability
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Caveat.

You no longer have control of the IoT in your life.

Utility smart meters
Cars

for starters.

You want water efficient washers?  Buy NOW before they all are connected 
IoT.
Do you use heating oil?  Select your provider carefully.  They are 
putting IoT in your fuel tank.

I know things about that AMI on my electric line.  I could have opted 
out, maybe.

On 7/24/19 6:40 PM, David Lamparter wrote:
> Hi all,
> (enter den of the lion)
>
>
> I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
> end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.
>
> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
> runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
> comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
> even compare the resulting binary.
>
> And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
> it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
> slicing open the chip.
>
> It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
> it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
> and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
> look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
> decision to trust or not.
>
> In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
> about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
> as the point relevant here is verifiability.
>
> And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
> span to FOSS availability on ."  If you want to throw your
> data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
> thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
> paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
> good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
> gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.
>
> So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
> them to do a privacy analysis?
>
> *HELL NO.*
>
> The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> -David
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------DF831D6601EED67C149069DB
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    Caveat.

    

    You no longer have control of the IoT in your life.

    

    Utility smart meters

    Cars

    

    for starters.

    

    You want water efficient washers?  Buy NOW before they all are
    connected IoT.

    Do you use heating oil?  Select your provider carefully.  They are
    putting IoT in your fuel tank.

    

    I know things about that AMI on my electric line.  I could have
    opted out, maybe.

    

    
On 7/24/19 6:40 PM, David Lamparter
      wrote:

    

    

      
Hi all,
(enter den of the lion)


I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.

The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
even compare the resulting binary.

And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
slicing open the chip.

It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
decision to trust or not.

In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
as the point relevant here is verifiability.

And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
span to FOSS availability on <buzzword>."  If you want to throw your
data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.

So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
them to do a privacy analysis?

*HELL NO.*

The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.

Cheers,


-David



    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------DF831D6601EED67C149069DB--


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On Jul 24, 2019, at 6:40 PM, David Lamparter  wrote:
> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to =
trust)
> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code =
that
> runs on it.

That=E2=80=99s great for you, but impractical for the average person.   =
The average person either has to just hope for the best, or has to pay =
someone who offers to provide this (what you do on your own) as a =
service.   There are lots of options for this=E2=80=94I believe it is =
how Canonical and Red Hat pay the bills.



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On =
Jul 24, 2019, at 6:40 PM, David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net> =
wrote:
The /only/ =
situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
any device is =
when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
runs on =
it.

That=E2=80=
=99s great for you, but impractical for the average person.   The =
average person either has to just hope for the best, or has to pay =
someone who offers to provide this (what you do on your own) as a =
service.   There are lots of options for this=E2=80=94I believe it =
is how Canonical and Red Hat pay the bills.


=

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To: Tobias Muhanguzi 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] (re. plenary) measuring privacy, trusting devices and verifiability
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How do you know you switched it off?  :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2019, at 1:31 AM, Tobias Muhanguzi  wrote:
>=20
> To a user, not tech person...the ability for me to switch off what i
> don't understand, or not fully convinced of feature on a device is
> power, and measure of security confidence...
>=20
>> On 7/25/19, Ted Lemon  wrote:
>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 6:40 PM, David Lamparter  wrote:=

>>> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
>>> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that=

>>> runs on it.
>>=20
>> That=E2=80=99s great for you, but impractical for the average person.   T=
he average
>> person either has to just hope for the best, or has to pay someone who
>> offers to provide this (what you do on your own) as a service.   There ar=
e
>> lots of options for this=E2=80=94I believe it is how Canonical and Red Ha=
t pay the
>> bills.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20


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To: Ted Lemon , Tobias Muhanguzi 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, David Lamparter 
References: <20190724224051.GQ258193@eidolon.nox.tf> <2671B34A-F1E0-457E-9D7D-522A47408242@fugue.com>  <22EE0D34-13EE-4680-8683-A00B92FC07B7@fugue.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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In some cases you can have it join an SSID that has no Internet access.  
Only Intranet.  But how many consumers know how to set up multiple SSIDs 
and what gateways support this and can you trust THEM?

This is fundamentally a no-win situation.  It is really a waste of 
braincells to even think of technical solutions.

On 7/25/19 6:18 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> How do you know you switched it off?  :)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2019, at 1:31 AM, Tobias Muhanguzi  wrote:
>>
>> To a user, not tech person...the ability for me to switch off what i
>> don't understand, or not fully convinced of feature on a device is
>> power, and measure of security confidence...
>>
>>> On 7/25/19, Ted Lemon  wrote:
>>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 6:40 PM, David Lamparter  wrote:
>>>> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
>>>> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
>>>> runs on it.
>>> That’s great for you, but impractical for the average person.   The average
>>> person either has to just hope for the best, or has to pay someone who
>>> offers to provide this (what you do on your own) as a service.   There are
>>> lots of options for this—I believe it is how Canonical and Red Hat pay the
>>> bills.
>>>
>>>
>>>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
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    In some cases you can have it join an SSID that has no Internet
    access.  Only Intranet.  But how many consumers know how to set up
    multiple SSIDs and what gateways support this and can you trust
    THEM?

    

    This is fundamentally a no-win situation.  It is really a waste of
    braincells to even think of technical solutions.

    

    
On 7/25/19 6:18 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:

    

    

      
How do you know you switched it off?  :)

Sent from my iPhone



      

        
On Jul 25, 2019, at 1:31 AM, Tobias Muhanguzi <mztoby12@ieee.org> wrote:

To a user, not tech person...the ability for me to switch off what i
don't understand, or not fully convinced of feature on a device is
power, and measure of security confidence...



        

          
On 7/25/19, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:


          

            
On Jul 24, 2019, at 6:40 PM, David Lamparter <equinox@diac24.net> wrote:
The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
runs on it.


          

          
That’s great for you, but impractical for the average person.   The average
person either has to just hope for the best, or has to pay someone who
offers to provide this (what you do on your own) as a service.   There are
lots of options for this—I believe it is how Canonical and Red Hat pay the
bills.





        

      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


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To: Tobias Muhanguzi 
Cc: David Lamparter , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <20190724224051.GQ258193@eidolon.nox.tf>  
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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https://us.cnn.com/2019/07/24/tech/nyc-cellphone-location-data-sale-ban/index.html

On 7/25/19 1:26 AM, Tobias Muhanguzi wrote:
> When it comes to security in IoT, consumers should have an opt out
> switch, and on top of that, security in design should be priority, we
> can't avoid the future, more so IoT
> ...@Richard
>
> On 7/25/19, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
>> Caveat.
>>
>> You no longer have control of the IoT in your life.
>>
>> Utility smart meters
>> Cars
>>
>> for starters.
>>
>> You want water efficient washers?  Buy NOW before they all are connected
>> IoT.
>> Do you use heating oil?  Select your provider carefully.  They are
>> putting IoT in your fuel tank.
>>
>> I know things about that AMI on my electric line.  I could have opted
>> out, maybe.
>>
>> On 7/24/19 6:40 PM, David Lamparter wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> (enter den of the lion)
>>>
>>>
>>> I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
>>> end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.
>>>
>>> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
>>> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
>>> runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
>>> comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
>>> even compare the resulting binary.
>>>
>>> And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
>>> it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
>>> slicing open the chip.
>>>
>>> It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
>>> it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
>>> and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
>>> look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
>>> decision to trust or not.
>>>
>>> In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
>>> about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
>>> as the point relevant here is verifiability.
>>>
>>> And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
>>> span to FOSS availability on ."  If you want to throw your
>>> data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
>>> thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
>>> paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
>>> good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
>>> gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.
>>>
>>> So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
>>> them to do a privacy analysis?
>>>
>>> *HELL NO.*
>>>
>>> The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>> --
>> Standard Robert Moskowitz
>> Owner
>> HTT Consulting
>> C:248-219-2059
>> F:248-968-2824
>> E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com
>>
>> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who
>> gets the credit
>>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

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https://us.cnn.com/2019/07/24/tech/nyc-cellphone-location-data-sale-ban/index.html

    

    
On 7/25/19 1:26 AM, Tobias Muhanguzi
      wrote:

    

    

      
When it comes to security in IoT, consumers should have an opt out
switch, and on top of that, security in design should be priority, we
can't avoid the future, more so IoT
...@Richard

On 7/25/19, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> wrote:


      

        
Caveat.

You no longer have control of the IoT in your life.

Utility smart meters
Cars

for starters.

You want water efficient washers?  Buy NOW before they all are connected
IoT.
Do you use heating oil?  Select your provider carefully.  They are
putting IoT in your fuel tank.

I know things about that AMI on my electric line.  I could have opted
out, maybe.

On 7/24/19 6:40 PM, David Lamparter wrote:


        

          
Hi all,
(enter den of the lion)


I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.

The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
even compare the resulting binary.

And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
slicing open the chip.

It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
decision to trust or not.

In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
as the point relevant here is verifiability.

And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
span to FOSS availability on <buzzword>."  If you want to throw your
data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.

So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
them to do a privacy analysis?

*HELL NO.*

The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.

Cheers,


-David



        

        
--
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who
gets the credit



      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


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I would love if the IETF would think about what could be done
to empower users to audit what devices are communicating. I
very much liked how he presentation today pointed that out.

I think the way "privacy" is presented without context is as
misleading as presenting "trust" without context. IMHO, the
way encryption via e.g.: TLS is used today is mostly successful
because it protects the privacy of often questionable, exploitative
business model. But its sold as if it primarily exists because of
end user privacy. If more users understand this distinction,
maybe transparency could become as big a requirement as privacy
is made to be.

You should sart analyzing behavior of peace makers. Friend who is
also frusted about bad working software with undocumented interfaces
and data m

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:40:51AM +0200, David Lamparter wrote:
> Hi all,
> (enter den of the lion)
> 
> 
> I find this discussion about measuring privacy, IoT devices and
> end-to-end encryption mildly hilarious and somewhat alarming.
> 
> The /only/ situation where I will trust (and recommend others to trust)
> any device is when I have the ability to build and compare the code that
> runs on it.  I normally would want to be able to change it too, but
> comparing is enough.  We have reproducible builds these days, so we can
> even compare the resulting binary.
> 
> And this goes all the way down to the hardware.  I'm only going to trust
> it if I can look at the design and compare it, even if that means
> slicing open the chip.
> 
> It's not about billions of people each doing this.  It's enough that
> it's possible to do; a few people will do it and publish their results,
> and by random statistical sampling each of the billions of people can
> look at the maybe 10 people who did it, and make their *individual*
> decision to trust or not.
> 
> In most cases this means open source, you can get into a discussion
> about signed binaries / inability to modify here, but it doesn't matter
> as the point relevant here is verifiability.
> 
> And with that in mind, the only question I ponder is "what's the time
> span to FOSS availability on ."  If you want to throw your
> data around, be my guest and join the hype train on whatever is the
> thing du jour.  Trying to make a privacy statement about smart toilet
> paper with closed source firmware is building on sand.  You may have a
> good grasp on the sheet you wiped your a** with, but the next one's
> gonna send your data to the Martian intelligence agency.
> 
> So, should we make allowances in things like TLS for the user to break
> them to do a privacy analysis?
> 
> *HELL NO.*
> 
> The thing to break (into) is the devices.  Not our protocols.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> -David
> 
> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de


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From: "Aaron Falk" 
To: "105 attendees" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:08:32 -0400
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Let's have some fun: PechaKucha & friends
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REMINDER: This is tonight at 9:30 in Duluth.

8 speakers are signed up.

See you there.

--aaron

On 22 Jul 2019, at 20:19, Aaron Falk wrote:

> Location: Duluth
>
> Speaking slots are still available.
>
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Aaron Falk  
> wrote:
>
>> As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social event 
>> around
>> satirical short talks. (Sometimes there is beer.) In the past, it’s 
>> been
>> required to fit the PechaKucha format but the PechaKucha format is 
>> rather
>> strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds, minimal text). So, 
>> I’d
>> like to try an experiment. This time, any talk format will be allowed
>> (including PK) with a maximum length of 7 minutes. As before, the 
>> topics
>> are encouraged to be a IETF-related and satirical or controversial in 
>> some
>> way, although not mean-spirited. Anyone can participate in this 
>> unofficial
>> social event.
>>
>> The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9:30pm. 
>> Location
>> will be announced later.
>>
>> If you haven’t been to one of these events, Here are two of my 
>> personal
>> favorites from prior IETFs by Pete
>> 
>> and Brian
>> .
>> Video from the past BA PKs can be found here 
>> 
>> .
>>
>> If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online tutorials 
>> and
>> suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha. Here are a few: [1
>> ], [2
>> ],
>> [3 ].
>>
>> As my friend, Spencer, says: “Make good decisions, People!”
>>
>> Format Details:
>>
>>    - Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first
>>    served.
>>    - To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to
>>    aaron.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation.
>>    - Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 
>> minutes
>>    (strictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach).
>>    - Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF.
>>
>> --
> -- aaron Sent from Gmail Mobile



--=_MailMate_5D878784-5D8E-46D3-935C-FBCDE0696103_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
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<=
p dir=3D"auto">REMINDER: This is tonight at 9:30 in Duluth.


8 speakers are signed up.


See you there.


--aaron


On 22 Jul 2019, at 20:19, Aaron Falk wrote:




Location: Duluth

Speaking slots are still available.=C2=A0=


On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 4:42 PM Aaron Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.com> =
wrote:










As some of you may know, I occasionally organize a social=
 event around satirical short talks.  (Sometimes there is beer.)  In the =
past, it=E2=80=99s been required to fit the PechaKucha format but the Pec=
haKucha format is rather strict (20 slides, each on screen for 20 seconds=
, minimal text).  So, I=E2=80=99d like to try an experiment.  This time, =
any talk format will be allowed (including PK) with a maximum length of 7=
 minutes.  As before, the topics are encouraged to be a IETF-related and =
satirical or controversial in some way, although not mean-spirited.  Anyo=
ne can participate in this unofficial social event.



The date will be Thursday evening (July 25) starting at 9=
:30pm.  Location will be announced later.



If you haven=E2=80=99t been to one of these events, Here =
are two of my personal favorites from prior IETFs by Pete and Brian.  Video from the past BA PKs can be found=
 here.



If you want to do a pechakucha, there are lots of online =
tutorials and suggestions for how to make a good PechaKucha.  Here are a =
few: [1], [2], [3].



As my friend, Spencer, says: =E2=80=9CMake good decisions=
, People!=E2=80=9D



Format Details:



    

  • Presentation slots are open to all, assigned first come, first served=
=2E
    • 

  • To reserve a presentation slot, send a name and title to aar=
on.falk@gmail.com and receive confirmation.
    • 

  • Presenters must agree to limit their talks to less than 7 minutes (st=
rictly enforced using the Lars Eggert Approach).
    • 

  • Slides are due Thursday 6pm in Powerpoint or PDF.
    • 












-- 
-- aaron

Sent from Gmail Mobile










--=_MailMate_5D878784-5D8E-46D3-935C-FBCDE0696103_=--


From nobody Thu Jul 25 14:06:38 2019
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Note: Dual Etherpads at IETF 105
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On 24 Jul 2019, at 14:16, Sarah Banks  wrote:

> FWIW, that wasn't my experience in TAPS; I reached the ether pad link =
from the Agenda page, and along with another notetaker, we were =
competing with dueling cursor flights :) Perhaps YMMV?

I don=E2=80=99t believe I mentioned TAPS.

For another example, go to the overall IETF agenda page =
 and find the 6tisch =
meeting. The =E2=80=9CEtherpad for note-takers=E2=80=9D button takes you =
to: 

The 6tisch meeting agenda page itself =
 =
tells you the Etherpad page is: =


If you click the second link you=E2=80=99ll see someone has helpfully =
added text saying that you=E2=80=99re on the wrong page.

Stuart Cheshire


From nobody Thu Jul 25 15:01:35 2019
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From: Sarah Banks 
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Subject: [105attendees] Sharpie to borrow?
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Hi,
    I know this is a slightly strange request, but if anyone has a standard b=
lack sharpie I could borrow, would you let me know? Thank you!!

Cheers
Sarah=


From nobody Thu Jul 25 20:08:05 2019
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Thanks everyone, I received one :)

Thanks
Sarah

> On Jul 25, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Sarah Banks  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>    I know this is a slightly strange request, but if anyone has a standard=
 black sharpie I could borrow, would you let me know? Thank you!!
>=20
> Cheers
> Sarah
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


From nobody Thu Jul 25 20:24:40 2019
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Note: Dual Etherpads at IETF 105
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Hi,
   You didn=E2=80=99t mention TAPS; I did, as another point of curious behav=
ior regarding ether pad, that=E2=80=99s all :)

Thanks
Sarah


> On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:06 PM, Stuart Cheshire  w=
rote:
>=20
>> On 24 Jul 2019, at 14:16, Sarah Banks  wrote:
>>=20
>> FWIW, that wasn't my experience in TAPS; I reached the ether pad link fro=
m the Agenda page, and along with another notetaker, we were competing with d=
ueling cursor flights :) Perhaps YMMV?
>=20
> I don=E2=80=99t believe I mentioned TAPS.
>=20
> For another example, go to the overall IETF agenda page  and find the 6tisch meeting. The =E2=80=9CE=
therpad for note-takers=E2=80=9D button takes you to: 
>=20
> The 6tisch meeting agenda page itself  tells you the Etherpad page is: 
>=20
> If you click the second link you=E2=80=99ll see someone has helpfully adde=
d text saying that you=E2=80=99re on the wrong page.
>=20
> Stuart Cheshire


From nobody Fri Jul 26 06:35:13 2019
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From: Marco Davids 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105all] IETF Network Shutdown
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] [105all] IETF Network Shutdown
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From: "Marco Davids (SIDN)" 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [105all] IETF Network Shutdown
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Thank you for the good service!

--
Marco

On 26/07/2019 09:29, Sean Croghan wrote:
> Everyone,
> As the meeting comes to a close, we wanted to update everyone on the
> shutdown schedule for the IETF Network.=C2=A0
>=20
>=20
>     =E2=80=A2=C2=A0The wireless APs that deliver the main IETF networks=
 in the
>     meeting rooms will be removed throughout the day as sessions come t=
o
>     a close.=C2=A0
>     =E2=80=A2=C2=A0The Terminal Room will be closed at 3pm today.=C2=A0=

>     =E2=80=A2 The wired guest room Internet will revert to the traditio=
nal hotel
>     network. =C2=A0
>     =E2=80=A2 =E2=80=9Cietf-hotel=E2=80=9D will remain available for us=
e in the guest rooms and
>     public areas until ~17:00 Sunday.
>=20
>=20
> We hope you all have a good trip home and look forward to seeing
> everyone in Singapore!
>=20
> =E2=80=94 The NOC Team
>=20


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Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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To:    The entire IETF community

 Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
         whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
         approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address space?

Dear Folks,

 I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention
was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address
space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I
have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved
with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail
as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
be achieved with 64 bits address space.

 If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to
solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits
address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
burden for ever for no reason.

 I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to
64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 bits
address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it comes up
with the following:

1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
   space to (NAT free) real IP space.
2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside
   VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with Provider
   Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be considered
   as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
   convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered
   as useful in the long run.

Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward
and look into this matter seriously.

Thanks.

--0000000000001b5ada058e965c66
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


To:=C2=A0 =C2=A0















The entire IETF community

=C2=A0Sub: W=
hy do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits ad=
dress space?

Dear Folks,

=C2=A0I raised this issue couple of =
time earlier. My intention
was to collect all the points in support of 1=
28 bits address
space and try to figure out whether they can be solvedwith 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
Mr. Suresh Krishn=
an for all the queries that he had. I
have shown that all the points tha=
t he had, can be solved
with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy=
 of my last mail
as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all t=
he points
that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 c=
an
be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
al=
l the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
to co=
me forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
be achieved w=
ith 64 bits address space. 

=C2=A0If it can be shown that 64 bits ad=
dress space is good enough to
solve all the requirements, either we have=
 to move back to 64 bits
address space in the future or we have to carry=
 through this extra
burden for ever for no reason.

=C2=A0I would =
request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
as a referen=
ce. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
customer networks ba=
sed on their actual need (in contrast to
64 bits address space (at least=
) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 bits
address space is good enoug=
h for this world. Along with that, it comes up
with the following:
1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0space to (NAT free) real IP space.
2. It comes up with a light=
 weight routing protocol applicable inside
=C2=A0 =C2=A0VLSM tree that s=
atisfies all the features supported by BGP.
3. It come up with a simple =
protocol for Host Identification with Provider
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Independent =
Address with the approach of DNS. This can be considered
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as=
 an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
4. It comes up with a hierar=
chical distribution of network for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0convenience of routi=
ng and distribution that may be considered
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as useful in the=
 long run.

Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come=
 forward
and look into this matter seriously.

Thanks.


--0000000000001b5ada058e965c66--

--0000000000001b5add058e965c68
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--0000000000001b5add058e965c68--


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From: Mike Bishop 
To: shyam bandyopadhyay , "iesg@ietf.org" ,  "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:42:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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--_000_69139f8377b844198c65eb8956db4c96evequefoube_
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The attendees list is not an appropriate venue for a technical proposal. Pe=
rhaps you should present at HotRFC next time.

Sent from Nine
________________________________
From: shyam bandyopadhyay 
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM
To: iesg@ietf.org; 105attendees@ietf.org
Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?

To:    The entire IETF community

 Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
         whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
         approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address space?

Dear Folks,

 I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention
was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address
space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I
have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved
with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail
as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
be achieved with 64 bits address space.

 If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to
solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits
address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
burden for ever for no reason.

 I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to
64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 bits
address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it comes up
with the following:

1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
   space to (NAT free) real IP space.
2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside
   VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with Provider
   Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be considered
   as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
   convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered
   as useful in the long run.

Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward
and look into this matter seriously.

Thanks.

--_000_69139f8377b844198c65eb8956db4c96evequefoube_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable










The attendees list is not an appropriate venue for a technical proposa=
l. Perhaps you should present at HotRFC next time.











Sent from 
Nine










From: shyam bandyopa=
dhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM

To: iesg@ietf.org; 105attendees@ietf.org

Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address sp=
ace?










To:    
The entire IETF community






 Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if

         whatever is been trying to achieve with t=
he existing

         approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 b=
its address space?



Dear Folks,



 I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention

was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address

space and try to figure out whether they can be solved

with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to

Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I

have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved

with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail

as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points

that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can

be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request

all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long

to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not

be achieved with 64 bits address space. 



 If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to

solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits

address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra

burden for ever for no reason.



 I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to

customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to

64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 bits=


address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it comes up
with the following:



1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP

   space to (NAT free) real IP space.

2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside

   VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with Provider<=
br>
   Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be cons=
idered

   as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).

4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the

   convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered=


   as useful in the long run.



Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward

and look into this matter seriously.



Thanks.










--_000_69139f8377b844198c65eb8956db4c96evequefoube_--


From nobody Fri Jul 26 08:01:31 2019
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References:  <69139f83-77b8-4419-8c65-eb8956db4c96@evequefou.be>
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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Take it to the general IETF list...

On 7/26/19 10:42 AM, Mike Bishop wrote:
> The attendees list is not an appropriate venue for a technical 
> proposal. Perhaps you should present at HotRFC next time.
>
> Sent from Nine 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* shyam bandyopadhyay 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM
> *To:* iesg@ietf.org; 105attendees@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
>
> To: The entire IETF community
>
> Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
>     whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
>     approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address space?
>
> Dear Folks,
>
> I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention
> was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address
> space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
> with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
> Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I
> have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved
> with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail
> as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
> that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
> be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
> all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
> to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
> be achieved with 64 bits address space.
>
> If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to
> solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits
> address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
> burden for ever for no reason.
>
> I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
> as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
> customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to
> 64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 
> bits
> address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it comes up
> with the following:
>
> 1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
>  space to (NAT free) real IP space.
> 2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside
>  VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
> 3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with Provider
>  Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be considered
>  as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
> 4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
>  convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered
>  as useful in the long run.
>
> Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward
> and look into this matter seriously.
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------547EA634B0E7F8337F414959
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


  
    
  
  
    Take it to the general IETF list...

    

    
On 7/26/19 10:42 AM, Mike Bishop wrote:

    

    

      
      
      

        
The attendees list is not an appropriate venue for a
          technical proposal. Perhaps you should present at HotRFC next
          time.
          

        

        


        

        

          Sent from 
            Nine

        

      

      

        

        
From:
            shyam bandyopadhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com>

            Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM

            To: iesg@ietf.org; 105attendees@ietf.org

            Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128
            bits address space?

          

      

      

      

        
To:  
            The entire IETF community
          


          

          
Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if

                whatever is been trying to achieve with the
            existing

                approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits
            address space?

            

            Dear Folks,

            

            I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention

            was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address

            space and try to figure out whether they can be solved

            with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to

            Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I

            have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved

            with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last
            mail

            as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the
            points

            that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6
            can

            be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would
            request

            all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6
            for long

            to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can
            not

            be achieved with 64 bits address space. 

            

            If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good
            enough to

            solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to
            64 bits

            address space in the future or we have to carry through this
            extra

            burden for ever for no reason.

            

            I would request readers to go through
            draft-shyam-real-ip-framework

            as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned
            to

            customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to

            64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in
            IPv6), 64 bits

            address space is good enough for this world. Along with
            that, it comes up

            with the following:

            

            1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based)
            private IP

             space to (NAT free) real IP space.

            2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol
            applicable inside

             VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by
            BGP.

            3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification
            with Provider

             Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be
            considered

             as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).

            4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network
            for the

             convenience of routing and distribution that may be
            considered

             as useful in the long run.

            

            Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come
            forward

            and look into this matter seriously.

            

            Thanks.

          

        

      

      

      

    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:248-219-2059

      
        F:248-968-2824

      
        E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------547EA634B0E7F8337F414959--


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From: Clemens Schrimpe 
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 17:18:43 +0200
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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Could it also be, that this train has left the station decade(s) ago? We are=
n=E2=80=98t =E2=80=9Egoing for 128bits address space=E2=80=9C, we have 128 b=
its address space.

=F0=9F=A4=94

Clemens

PS: I can=E2=80=98t read your word document. Could you transform it into a (=
current) open format, please?

Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 26.07.2019 um 16:28 schrieb shyam bandyopadhyay :
>=20
> To:    The entire IETF community
>=20
>  Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
>          whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
>          approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address space?
>=20
> Dear Folks,
>=20
>  I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention
> was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address
> space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
> with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
> Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I
> have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved
> with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail
> as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
> that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
> be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
> all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
> to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
> be achieved with 64 bits address space.=20
>=20
>  If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to
> solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits
> address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
> burden for ever for no reason.
>=20
>  I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
> as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
> customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to
> 64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), 64 bit=
s
> address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it comes up
> with the following:
>=20
> 1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
>    space to (NAT free) real IP space.
> 2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside
>    VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
> 3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with Provider=

>    Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be considered
>    as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
> 4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
>    convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered
>    as useful in the long run.
>=20
> Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward
> and look into this matter seriously.
>=20
> Thanks.
> 
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--Apple-Mail-6E1AFC81-E10E-47ED-A513-1FF1EB0A7EE3
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Could it also be, that this train has left t=
he station decade(s) ago? We aren=E2=80=98t =E2=80=9Egoing for 128bits addre=
ss space=E2=80=9C, we have 128 bits address space.

=F0=9F=A4=94

Clemens

PS: I can=E2=80=98t read your word document. Could you transform it into a (=
current) open format, please?

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 26.07.2019 u=
m 16:28 schrieb shyam bandyopadhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com>:

To:   















The entire IETF community

 Sub: Why=
 do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
      &nbs=
p;  whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
  &nbs=
p;      approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address s=
pace?

Dear Folks,

 I raised this issue couple of time ear=
lier. My intention
was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits a=
ddress
space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
with 64 b=
its address space as well. I am thankful to
Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all t=
he queries that he had. I
have shown that all the points that he had, can=
 be solved
with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last ma=
il
as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
th=
at were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
be achieve=
d with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
all the people main=
ly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
to come forward in favo=
r of 128 bits address space that can not
be achieved with 64 bits address=
 space. 

 If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good e=
nough to
solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bi=
ts
address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
=
burden for ever for no reason.

 I would request readers to go th=
rough draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
as a reference. It shows that if addr=
ess space gets assigned to
customer networks based on their actual need (=
in contrast to
64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network i=
n IPv6), 64 bits
address space is good enough for this world. Along with t=
hat, it comes up
with the following:

1. It shows how to make a tra=
nsition from (NAT based) private IP
   space to (NAT free) real=
 IP space.
2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable=
 inside
   VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported b=
y BGP.
3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with P=
rovider
   Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This c=
an be considered
   as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP=
).
4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
=
   convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered<=
br>   as useful in the long run.

Hence, I would request all=
 the like minded people to come forward
and look into this matter serious=
ly.

Thanks.


<prev_lette=
r.txt.doc>
=

--Apple-Mail-6E1AFC81-E10E-47ED-A513-1FF1EB0A7EE3--


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From: Suresh Krishnan 
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Cc: Mike Bishop , shyam bandyopadhyay , "iesg@ietf.org" , Robert Moskowitz 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space?
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Hi all,
  Apologies for further spamming this list. Since my queries were =
specifically referenced I felt obliged to respond. In my view, =
105attendees is not the appropriate venue for this technical discussion, =
and I have hence responded on the 6man WG mailing list with my original =
technical comments on this proposal from a year ago.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/ZjODueIaDUnHSbmq9Dmd9-pm5Yg

If you are interested in technical discussions on this topic, feel free =
to respond on the 6man mailing list.

Thanks
Suresh

> On Jul 26, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Robert Moskowitz =
 wrote:
>=20
> Take it to the general IETF list...
>=20
> On 7/26/19 10:42 AM, Mike Bishop wrote:
>> The attendees list is not an appropriate venue for a technical =
proposal. Perhaps you should present at HotRFC next time.=20
>>=20
>> Sent from Nine 
>> From: shyam bandyopadhyay  =

>> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM
>> To: iesg@ietf.org ; 105attendees@ietf.org =

>> Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to go for 128 bits address =
space?
>>=20
>> To:    The entire IETF community
>>=20
>>  Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits address space if
>>          whatever is been trying to achieve with the existing
>>          approach of IPv6, can be achieved by 64 bits address space?
>>=20
>> Dear Folks,
>>=20
>>  I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My intention
>> was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits address
>> space and try to figure out whether they can be solved
>> with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to
>> Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I
>> have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved
>> with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last mail
>> as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the points
>> that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6 can
>> be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would request
>> all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6 for long
>> to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can not
>> be achieved with 64 bits address space.=20
>>=20
>>  If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good enough to
>> solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to 64 bits
>> address space in the future or we have to carry through this extra
>> burden for ever for no reason.
>>=20
>>  I would request readers to go through draft-shyam-real-ip-framework
>> as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned to
>> customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast to
>> 64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in IPv6), =
64 bits
>> address space is good enough for this world. Along with that, it =
comes up
>> with the following:
>>=20
>> 1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based) private IP
>>    space to (NAT free) real IP space.
>> 2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol applicable inside
>>    VLSM tree that satisfies all the features supported by BGP.
>> 3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification with =
Provider
>>    Independent Address with the approach of DNS. This can be =
considered
>>    as an alternative of existing protocol (HIP).
>> 4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network for the
>>    convenience of routing and distribution that may be considered
>>    as useful in the long run.
>>=20
>> Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come forward
>> and look into this matter seriously.
>>=20
>> Thanks.
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Robert Moskowitz
> Owner
> HTT Consulting
> C:      248-219-2059
> F:      248-968-2824
> E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com 
>=20
> There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who =
gets the credit
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


--Apple-Mail=_EE8AD6EF-66A3-441E-BF72-3B87FD37A096
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii


Hi all,
  Apologies for further =
spamming this list. Since my queries were specifically referenced I felt =
obliged to respond. In my view, 105attendees is not the appropriate =
venue for this technical discussion, and I have hence responded on the =
6man WG mailing list with my original technical comments on this =
proposal from a year ago.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/ZjODueIaDUnHSbmq9Dmd=
9-pm5Yg

If you =
are interested in technical discussions on this topic, feel free to =
respond on the 6man mailing list.

Thanks
Suresh

On Jul =
26, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> =
wrote:



 =20
  

    Take it to the general IETF list...

    

    
On 7/26/19 10:42 AM, Mike Bishop =
wrote:

    

    
=

     =20
      
      

        
The attendees list is not an appropriate venue =
for a
          technical proposal. Perhaps you should present at HotRFC next
          time.
          

        

        


        

        

          Sent from 
            Nine

        

      

      

        

        
From:
            shyam bandyopadhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com>

            Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 10:29 AM

            To: iesg@ietf.org; 105attendees@ietf.org

            Subject: [105attendees] Why do we need to =
go for 128
            bits address space?

          

      

      

      

        
To:    
            The entire IETF community
          


          

          
 Sub: Why do we need to go for 128 bits =
address space if

                     whatever is been trying to =
achieve with the
            existing

                     approach of IPv6, can be =
achieved by 64 bits
            address space?

            

            Dear Folks,

            

             I raised this issue couple of time earlier. My =
intention

            was to collect all the points in support of 128 bits =
address

            space and try to figure out whether they can be solved

            with 64 bits address space as well. I am thankful to

            Mr. Suresh Krishnan for all the queries that he had. I

            have shown that all the points that he had, can be solved

            with 64 bits address space (Please follow a copy of my last
            mail

            as an attachment with all the answers). I believe all the
            points

            that were mentioned in the requirement specification of IPv6
            can

            be achieved with 64 bits address space as well. I would
            request

            all the people mainly those who have been working with IPv6
            for long

            to come forward in favor of 128 bits address space that can
            not

            be achieved with 64 bits address space. 

            

             If it can be shown that 64 bits address space is good
            enough to

            solve all the requirements, either we have to move back to
            64 bits

            address space in the future or we have to carry through this
            extra

            burden for ever for no reason.

            

             I would request readers to go through
            draft-shyam-real-ip-framework

            as a reference. It shows that if address space gets assigned
            to

            customer networks based on their actual need (in contrast =
to

            64 bits address space (at least) for any customer network in
            IPv6), 64 bits

            address space is good enough for this world. Along with
            that, it comes up

            with the following:

            

            1. It shows how to make a transition from (NAT based)
            private IP

               space to (NAT free) real IP space.
=

            2. It comes up with a light weight routing protocol
            applicable inside

               VLSM tree that satisfies all the features =
supported by
            BGP.

            3. It come up with a simple protocol for Host Identification
            with Provider

               Independent Address with the approach of DNS. =
This can be
            considered

               as an alternative of existing protocol =
(HIP).

            4. It comes up with a hierarchical distribution of network
            for the

               convenience of routing and distribution that =
may be
            considered

               as useful in the long run.

            

            Hence, I would request all the like minded people to come
            forward

            and look into this matter seriously.

            

            Thanks.

          

        

      

      

      

    

    

    
-- 

     =20
      Standard
      Robert =
Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


-- 
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

=

--Apple-Mail=_EE8AD6EF-66A3-441E-BF72-3B87FD37A096--


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From: 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Phone found
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 20:32:00 +0000
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Google pixel 1.
Returned to hotel lost and found

Sent from my mobile.


-------- Message original --------
Objet : Re: [105attendees] Sharpie to borrow?
De : Sarah Banks
=C0 : 105attendees@ietf.org
Cc :

Thanks everyone, I received one :)

Thanks
Sarah

> On Jul 25, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Sarah Banks  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>    I know this is a slightly strange request, but if anyone has a standar=
d black sharpie I could borrow, would you let me know? Thank you!!
>
> Cheers
> Sarah
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

--
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___________________________________________________________________________=
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Google pixel 1.

Returned to hotel lost and found



Sent from my mobile. 







-------- Message original --------

Objet : Re: [105attendees] Sharpie to borrow?

De : Sarah Banks 

=C0 : 105attendees@ietf.org

Cc : 







Thanks everyone, I received one :)



Thanks

Sarah



> On Jul 25, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Sarah Banks <sbanks@encrypted.net> =
wrote:

> 

> Hi,

>    I know this is a slightly strange request, but if an=
yone has a standard black sharpie I could borrow, would you let me know? Th=
ank you!!

> 

> Cheers

> Sarah

> -- 

> 105attendees mailing list

> 105attendees@ietf.org

> https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees



-- 

105attendees mailing list

105attendees@ietf.org

https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees





______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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From nobody Sun Jul 28 07:10:45 2019
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I took the airport bus from the stop across the street from the hotel.  =
The concierge gave me a flyer with the full schedule.

I got the 12:49 bus, got to the airport by 1:20.  Breezed through =
security and customs in 30 min.  no problems

=E2=80=94Sandy


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To: Sandra Murphy , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <2EB43B36-53C1-4417-87EA-606584F08F98@tislabs.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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My Sabbath host kindly drove me to the airport; 15 min.  Arrived at 
10:45 and was through customs at 11:10.

Of course Sunday morning this place is fairly empty.

On 7/28/19 10:01 AM, Sandra Murphy wrote:
> I took the airport bus from the stop across the street from the hotel.  The concierge gave me a flyer with the full schedule.
>
> I got the 12:49 bus, got to the airport by 1:20.  Breezed through security and customs in 30 min.  no problems
>
> —Sandy
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------16FDFDA08F99AFD8D63E0668
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    My Sabbath host kindly drove me to the airport; 15 min.  Arrived at
    10:45 and was through customs at 11:10.

    

    Of course Sunday morning this place is fairly empty.

    

    
On 7/28/19 10:01 AM, Sandra Murphy
      wrote:

    

    

      
I took the airport bus from the stop across the street from the hotel.  The concierge gave me a flyer with the full schedule.

I got the 12:49 bus, got to the airport by 1:20.  Breezed through security and customs in 30 min.  no problems

—Sandy



    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------16FDFDA08F99AFD8D63E0668--


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From: John Scudder 
To: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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From: "M. Ranganathan" 
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Subject: [105attendees] Thanks to the organizers.
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This was my first IETF.  Just wanted to thank the organizers for the
experience. Thanks, especially to the Hackathon organizers - Charles Eckel
et. al.

What a blast!

-- 
M. Ranganathan

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This was my first IETF.=C2=A0 Just wanted to thank th=
e organizers for the experience. Thanks, especially to the Hackathon organi=
zers - Charles Eckel et. al. 

What a blast!

-- 
M. Ranganathan 



--0000000000001d0ada058ec23874--


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References: <62927CDB-5E5D-4C5D-AD51-0BC35D4E2FFE@puck.nether.net> <0351ba7e-6619-8441-f436-ec3076c575a8@fastmail.com>      <4CD5599E-9504-4645-ACA1-27C9C34F67C4@gmail.com>   <445C7C6B-4BF8-4429-B1B9-378C4947930C@puck.nether.net> <56CC6733-9770-40A4-A53B-BAF5447906B4@juniper.net> <7C25E506-7D0F-444E-B23D-20856FE33F10@juniper.net> 
To: John Scudder 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Global entry / nexus was unavailable at the border with Vermont Friday after=
noon. :(

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2019, at 2:40 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 11:11 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>>=20
>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 2:14 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Interesting footnote: Per the web sites of the US and Canada governments=
, as well as TIMATIC, a NEXUS card is acceptable as sole travel document for=
 air crossing from US to Canada and vice-versa. If I can=E2=80=99t locate my=
 passport in the next few hours :-o I will have the opportunity to report wh=
ether this actually works as advertised.
>>=20
>> Confirmed: I got all the way from my home to my hotel room without once g=
etting my passport (which I did find) out of my pocket. I was pleasantly sur=
prised that the airline people were unfazed when I handed them a NEXUS card f=
or the document check.=20
>=20
> And it worked on the homeward leg too, again my passport remained in my po=
cket throughout, no drama.
>=20
> FYI, FWIW.
>=20
> =E2=80=94John
>=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

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Global entry / nexus was unavailable at the=
 border with Vermont Friday afternoon. :(

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 201=
9, at 2:40 PM, John Scudder <jgs=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:














On Jul 21, 2019, at 11:11 PM, John Scudder <jgs=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org> wrote:




On
 Jul 21, 2019, at 2:14 PM, John Scudder <jgs=3D=
40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
 wrote:







Interesting
 footnote: Per the web sites of the US and Canada governments, as well as TI=
MATIC, a NEXUS card is acceptable as sole travel document for air crossing f=
rom US to Canada and vice-versa. If I can=E2=80=99t locate my passport in th=
e next few hours :-o I will have the
 opportunity to report whether this actually works as advertised.











Confirmed: I got all the way from my home to my hotel room without once gett=
ing my passport (which I did find) out of my pocket. I was pleasantly surpri=
sed that the airline people were unfazed when I handed them a NEXUS card for=
 the document check. 










And it worked on the homeward leg too, again my passport remained in my=
 pocket throughout, no drama.







FYI, FWIW.







=E2=80=94John






=

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Subject: Re: [105attendees] departure report
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Our group of 3 people were going in 3 different directions at 3 =
different flight times.  We therefore discovered that the *maximum* time =
before departure you can check in is about 4 hours.  On a Saturday =
evening, the queues were generally reasonable and the bureaucracy was =
not onerous (certainly better than arriving for me).

 - Jonathan Morton=


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From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
To: Jonathan Morton , Robert Moskowitz 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Sandra Murphy 
Thread-Topic: [105attendees] departure report
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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 21:21:27 +0000
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To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" , Jonathan Morton 
Cc: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>, Sandra Murphy 
References: <2EB43B36-53C1-4417-87EA-606584F08F98@tislabs.com> <679c4c40-bd96-0907-cb19-9747dbb031f1@labs.htt-consult.com> <859BD44A-2955-4DBD-A32F-D0A8D8C1A35F@gmail.com> 
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 17:28:13 -0400
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At least you did not have to intercept mis-routed baggage on its way to 
Mexico City via Dallas when it was suppose to be going to Newark.

Good think I remembered the people ahead of my son were speaking 
together in Spanish and I heard them tell the baggage check person about 
Mexico City.

Once they got the baggage in Dallas just before it got loaded on the 
flight to Mexico, then over to Newark, then trucked to the Catskills.  
It was more like 30 hours.

I suspect most of us have had baggage go where we were not...

On 7/28/19 5:21 PM, Scheffenegger, Richard wrote:
> The only additional experience I can share:
>
> Tl;dnr: YUL ground handling apparently needs more than 120 min to find and re-route a piece of baggage;
>
>
> After being declined to go on stand-by (because of checked baggage) on the the two earlier flights (to guarantee me reaching my connecting flight), surely enough the flight I was booked on was delayed by 1:40... (as announced about 50 minutes prior the planned departure time).
>
> The service desk was of no help - according to them, with checked baggage, rebooking is nominally impossible on YUL on such a short notice, and they claimed a (nonexisting) legal requirement that baggage always has to travel in the very same plane as the passanger.  I want to point out, the notice to reroute the baggage could have been as long as 120 min, as the one earlier flight was not fully booked, which I found out when asking for the one two slots earlier...
>
> The only options I got offered there was to extend my stay in Montreal by one day, or in Toronto by one day...
>
> I nevertheless went ahead and got myself rebooked on the transfer desk just prior to the US immigration zone (no people there, and the service agent had nothing else to do, while the two service desk personal were massively congested which huge bufferbloat).
>
> Ultimately, I arrived at my destination even before the booked route, only my luggage was delayed about 18 hours, which I gladly accepted to get here on the direct flight 😊
>
>   
> But it seems that baggage handling tends to be less efficient in the new worlds, compared to the old world, taking much more advance notice to work out properly.
>
> Richard Scheffenegger
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Morton
> Sent: Sonntag, 28. Juli 2019 15:13
> To: Robert Moskowitz 
> Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Sandra Murphy 
> Subject: Re: [105attendees] departure report
>
> NetApp Security WARNING: This is an external email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
>
> Our group of 3 people were going in 3 different directions at 3 different flight times.  We therefore discovered that the *maximum* time before departure you can check in is about 4 hours.  On a Saturday evening, the queues were generally reasonable and the bureaucracy was not onerous (certainly better than arriving for me).
>
>   - Jonathan Morton
> --
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit

--------------BE276B035A2C3EE7CA7EC118
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    At least you did not have to intercept mis-routed baggage on its way
    to Mexico City via Dallas when it was suppose to be going to Newark.

    

    Good think I remembered the people ahead of my son were speaking
    together in Spanish and I heard them tell the baggage check person
    about Mexico City.

    

    Once they got the baggage in Dallas just before it got loaded on the
    flight to Mexico, then over to Newark, then trucked to the
    Catskills.  It was more like 30 hours.

    

    I suspect most of us have had baggage go where we were not...

    

    
On 7/28/19 5:21 PM, Scheffenegger,
      Richard wrote:

    

    

      
The only additional experience I can share: 

Tl;dnr: YUL ground handling apparently needs more than 120 min to find and re-route a piece of baggage;


After being declined to go on stand-by (because of checked baggage) on the the two earlier flights (to guarantee me reaching my connecting flight), surely enough the flight I was booked on was delayed by 1:40... (as announced about 50 minutes prior the planned departure time).

The service desk was of no help - according to them, with checked baggage, rebooking is nominally impossible on YUL on such a short notice, and they claimed a (nonexisting) legal requirement that baggage always has to travel in the very same plane as the passanger.  I want to point out, the notice to reroute the baggage could have been as long as 120 min, as the one earlier flight was not fully booked, which I found out when asking for the one two slots earlier... 

The only options I got offered there was to extend my stay in Montreal by one day, or in Toronto by one day...

I nevertheless went ahead and got myself rebooked on the transfer desk just prior to the US immigration zone (no people there, and the service agent had nothing else to do, while the two service desk personal were massively congested which huge bufferbloat). 

Ultimately, I arrived at my destination even before the booked route, only my luggage was delayed about 18 hours, which I gladly accepted to get here on the direct flight 😊

 
But it seems that baggage handling tends to be less efficient in the new worlds, compared to the old world, taking much more advance notice to work out properly.

Richard Scheffenegger


-----Original Message-----
From: 105attendees <105attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Morton
Sent: Sonntag, 28. Juli 2019 15:13
To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org; Sandra Murphy <sandy@tislabs.com>
Subject: Re: [105attendees] departure report

NetApp Security WARNING: This is an external email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.




Our group of 3 people were going in 3 different directions at 3 different flight times.  We therefore discovered that the *maximum* time before departure you can check in is about 4 hours.  On a Saturday evening, the queues were generally reasonable and the bureaucracy was not onerous (certainly better than arriving for me).

 - Jonathan Morton
--
105attendees mailing list
105attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


    

    

    
-- 

      
      Standard
      Robert Moskowitz

      
        Owner

      
        HTT Consulting

      C:      248-219-2059

      
        F:      248-968-2824

      
        E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

      

      
        There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't
        matter who gets the credit

    

  


--------------BE276B035A2C3EE7CA7EC118--


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> On 28 Jul, 2019, at 11:28 pm, Robert Moskowitz =
 wrote:
>=20
> I suspect most of us have had baggage go where we were not...

Thankfully, that's never happened to me (except when it was directly my =
own fault).  Long may it continue.

 - Jonathan Morton=


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From: "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
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--_000_SN4PR0601MB372866C57F09F3E917099B3686C20SN4PR0601MB3728_--


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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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--On Sunday, July 28, 2019 15:06 -0400 Ted Lemon
 wrote:

> Global entry / nexus was unavailable at the border with
> Vermont Friday afternoon. :(

At least in Derby on Thursday afternoon it took me under 10
minutes to clear US immigration and that includes being fourth
car in line when I arrived.  Compared to airports, with or
without Global Entry, it is hard to complain about that.

    john




From nobody Mon Jul 29 05:27:01 2019
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To: John C Klensin 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] Global Entry/NEXUS Travel Tips for Canada
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Our wait wasn=E2=80=99t bad either. About 20 cars. But definitely not nexus.=
 :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2019, at 1:44 AM, John C Klensin  wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --On Sunday, July 28, 2019 15:06 -0400 Ted Lemon
>  wrote:
>=20
>> Global entry / nexus was unavailable at the border with
>> Vermont Friday afternoon. :(
>=20
> At least in Derby on Thursday afternoon it took me under 10
> minutes to clear US immigration and that includes being fourth
> car in line when I arrived.  Compared to airports, with or
> without Global Entry, it is hard to complain about that.
>=20
>    john
>=20
>=20
>=20


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> On 28 Jul 2019, at 22:21, Scheffenegger, Richard =
 wrote:
>=20
> But it seems that baggage handling tends to be less efficient in the =
new worlds, compared to the old world, taking much more advance notice =
to work out properly.

Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check in a bag.


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From: "Carlos M. Martinez" 
To: "Jim Reid" 
Cc: "Scheffenegger, Richard" , 105attendees@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:16:31 -0300
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Hi

On 29 Jul 2019, at 12:13, Jim Reid wrote:

> Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check in a 
> bag.

That is simply not possible for many of us. However, I have to agree on 
“never put anything you cannot live with inside a checked bag”.

:-)

Carlos


From nobody Mon Jul 29 08:20:05 2019
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To: Jim Reid , "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
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From: Robert Moskowitz 
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On 7/29/19 11:13 AM, Jim Reid wrote:
>
>> On 28 Jul 2019, at 22:21, Scheffenegger, Richard  wrote:
>>
>> But it seems that baggage handling tends to be less efficient in the new worlds, compared to the old world, taking much more advance notice to work out properly.
> Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check in a bag.
>

Check out:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/check-in-vs-carry-on-luggage/index.html

for both sides of the argument.

On business I 'never check'.  On family, well of course with that much, 
I check the bags...



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From: "Salz, Rich" 
To: Jim Reid , "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
CC: "105attendees@ietf.org" <105attendees@ietf.org>
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On 29/07/2019 16:32, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>     Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check in a bag.
>    
> 
> I prefer to avoid the Darwinian fight for overhead space.  And, conversely, not being one of "those jerks" with more than the average allowance.
> 

+1

I would be much happier with a smaller single bag rule regardless of 
status, and consequently much less aggression during boarding.

Stewart


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From: Ken Murchison 
Organization: FastMail US LLC
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:56:27 -0400
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On 7/29/19 11:42 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
>
> On 29/07/2019 16:32, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>>     Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check 
>>> in a bag.
>>
>> I prefer to avoid the Darwinian fight for overhead space.  And, 
>> conversely, not being one of "those jerks" with more than the average 
>> allowance.
>>
>
> +1
>
> I would be much happier with a smaller single bag rule regardless of 
> status, and consequently much less aggression during boarding.


Airlines should be charging for carry-on bags rather than checked bagss 
ince most business travelers will expense the cost anyways. A family on 
vacation should'nt have to pay extra to check a stroller, car seat, etc.


-- 
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
Fastmail US LLC


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To: Ken Murchison , 105attendees@ietf.org
References: <2EB43B36-53C1-4417-87EA-606584F08F98@tislabs.com> <679c4c40-bd96-0907-cb19-9747dbb031f1@labs.htt-consult.com> <859BD44A-2955-4DBD-A32F-D0A8D8C1A35F@gmail.com>     
From: Robert Moskowitz 
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:29:44 -0400
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On 7/29/19 11:56 AM, Ken Murchison wrote:
>
> On 7/29/19 11:42 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 29/07/2019 16:32, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>>>     Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check 
>>>> in a bag.
>>>
>>> I prefer to avoid the Darwinian fight for overhead space. And, 
>>> conversely, not being one of "those jerks" with more than the 
>>> average allowance.
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I would be much happier with a smaller single bag rule regardless of 
>> status, and consequently much less aggression during boarding.
>
>
> Airlines should be charging for carry-on bags rather than checked 
> bagss ince most business travelers will expense the cost anyways. A 
> family on vacation should'nt have to pay extra to check a stroller, 
> car seat, etc.

Spirit, Frontier Air, Ryan Air.  There are airlines out there that are 
like this and they are just as bad.  One of my daughters has occasion to 
take Frontier from Trenton to Detroit and still there are the bags 
challenge.

If you want to encourage checking bags, make the planes have too small 
of overhead compartments.  I actually encountered that on Air China 
(Taiwan airline).  They had a limit of 7KG and when I boarded that 747, 
I got it.  The overhead was way up there, out of reach of almost 
everyone and were REALLY small.

Of course on the CRJ700 I flew for this meeting, my 23" would not fit.  
Nor would most 22" bags.



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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker 
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:48:54 +0100
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So we are re-inventing air travel now?

My vote goes for the airlines standardizing carry on and hold baggage so as
to get optimum packing space.

Each bag to be stamped on all six sides with an indelible QR code to be
used for tracking purposes.

Queuing protocol at the gate to be designed by Disney for optimum ingress.

Egress henceforth to be by columns, first the C&D seats step into the aisle
and collect their cases and deplane. Followed by the B&E seats and finally
the window.

Of course, the more profitable route would be pack us in like sardines and
feed us cannabis snacks to keep everyone quiet.

--000000000000d0668c058ed8052d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


So =
we are re-inventing air travel now?

My vote goes for the airlines standardizing carry on and hold ba=
ggage so as to get optimum packing space.

Each bag to be stamped on all six sides with an indelible =
QR code to be used for tracking purposes.

Qu=
euing protocol at the gate to be designed by Disney for optimum ingress.

Egress henceforth to be=
 by columns, first the C&D seats step into the aisle and collect their =
cases and deplane. Followed by the B&E seats and finally the window.

Of course, the more profita=
ble route would be pack us in like sardines and feed us cannabis snacks to =
keep everyone quiet.


--000000000000d0668c058ed8052d--


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From: Jonathan Morton 
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 23:59:10 +0300
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker 
Cc: 105attendees@ietf.org, Ken Murchison ,  Robert Moskowitz 
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I vote for a fares system that verifiably wasn't dreamed up by a magpie on
acid.

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I vote for a fares system that verifiably wasn't dreamed up by a magpie on acid.


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To: Ken Murchison 
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> On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:56 AM, Ken Murchison  wrote:
>=20
> A family on vacation should'nt have to pay extra to check a stroller, car s=
eat, etc

You don=E2=80=99t pay for these.=20

I usually only check a bag when going home as I=E2=80=99d rather have it del=
ivered.=20

I also use stores if we forget or need something vs assuming I have to take a=
ll spares with me.=20=


From nobody Mon Jul 29 14:35:08 2019
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker 
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Sent from my iCar

> On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:48 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker  w=
rote:
>=20
> So we are re-inventing air travel now?


You must be new here :-)
=20

There is likely a dtd for this already for the list. I need to see you publi=
sh the yang model in April.=20=


From nobody Mon Jul 29 17:29:30 2019
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From: Tom Pusateri 
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To: Jared Mauch 
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Subject: Re: [105attendees] departure report
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If I can buy an airline ticket for same day travel, I ought be able to sell a=
n existing ticket to someone else at least a week in advance.

Re-selling tickets would solve many other problems we experience from airlin=
es. It would provide the badly needed competition that would encourage airli=
nes to provide a service that customers want to buy as opposed to the servic=
es they=E2=80=99ve negotiated with regulators.

I recently bought tickets to the Newport Folk Festival. The tickets were sol=
d out but there was a healthy resale market. Many of you have probably also e=
xperienced this with tickets to sporting events, broadway shows, etc.

I propose that every person in the world change their name to Pat Smith.

Tom

> On Jul 29, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Sent from my iCar
>=20
>> On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:48 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker =
 wrote:
>>=20
>> So we are re-inventing air travel now?
>=20
> 
> You must be new here :-)
> =20
>=20
> There is likely a dtd for this already for the list. I need to see you pub=
lish the yang model in April.=20
> --=20
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees


From nobody Mon Jul 29 17:50:57 2019
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:50:47 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert 
To: Tom Pusateri 
Cc: Jared Mauch , Robert Moskowitz , Phillip Hallam-Baker , Ken Murchison , 105attendees@ietf.org
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Hmm...

I would have immediately jumped to saying this is a good idea, but
on second thought i think any actual attempt to lobby this in congress
or the EU should probably take another look at how to limit this so
that you do not simply replace airline price gouging with third-party
price gouging. After all, there is enough money floating around that
someone could simply buy up gigantic masses of airline tickets and
then resell them.

As you mentioned a concert, such price gouging was
fairly common for very popular events like FIFA and i think they
also came up with a non-trivial set of rules to avoid the price gouging.
Not sure actually to what extend you can resell tickets there.

Toerless

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 08:29:24PM -0400, Tom Pusateri wrote:
> If I can buy an airline ticket for same day travel, I ought be able to sell an existing ticket to someone else at least a week in advance.
> 
> Re-selling tickets would solve many other problems we experience from airlines. It would provide the badly needed competition that would encourage airlines to provide a service that customers want to buy as opposed to the services they???ve negotiated with regulators.
> 
> I recently bought tickets to the Newport Folk Festival. The tickets were sold out but there was a healthy resale market. Many of you have probably also experienced this with tickets to sporting events, broadway shows, etc.
> 
> I propose that every person in the world change their name to Pat Smith.
> 
> Tom
> 
> > On Jul 29, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iCar
> > 
> >> On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:48 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker  wrote:
> >> 
> >> So we are re-inventing air travel now?
> > 
> > 
> > You must be new here :-)
> >  
> > 
> > There is likely a dtd for this already for the list. I need to see you publish the yang model in April. 
> > -- 
> > 105attendees mailing list
> > 105attendees@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees
> 
> -- 
> 105attendees mailing list
> 105attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/105attendees

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de


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--000000000000a8c042058edb679c
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I do not need your message please

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I do not need your message please


--000000000000a8c042058edb679c--


From nobody Mon Jul 29 17:54:17 2019
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I do not need your message please

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I do not need your message please


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From nobody Wed Jul 31 06:34:56 2019
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From: Sean Leonard 
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Left on Saturday morning at 5:10am on the 747 bus.

I wanted to add for posterity, that there is a large ticket vending=20
pylon on the northwest side of the Ren=C3=A9 L=C3=A9vesque Boulevard=20
(southwest-bound) where the airport-bound bus stop is, just across from=20
the Fairmont. It's Stop ID 52529 and its plus code is GC2J+49 Montreal,=20
Quebec, Canada. The ticket vending machine /appeared/ to vend 1-day=20
(24-hour) and 3-day passes, and took card payments in addition to cash.

It is economical to go to said pylon 24 hours prior to your intended=20
departure on the 747 bus and pick up a 1-day (24-hour) pass. That way,=20
you can use the transit system for free for the entire 24 hours prior to=20
boarding the 747 bus. I confirmed that this pass does not activate until=20
you first use it, so you can buy it well in advance, so long as you=20
actually use it less than 24 hours before your intended 747 departure.

You can also get a 3-day pass, except that the 3-day pass only applies=20
to the current day and two days afterwards: it expires at the end of the=20
third day, not 72 hours after first use. I did not confirm whether the=20
3-day pass activates on purchase or on first use.

I asked the Fairmont Reception desk about where to buy short-term=20
passes, and they were clueless about the ticket vending pylon. As a=20
result, I had to trek from the hotel to the Bonaventure Metro station to=20
pick up a pass.

Sean

On 7/28/2019 7:01 AM, Sandra Murphy wrote:
> I took the airport bus from the stop across the street from the hotel. =
 The concierge gave me a flyer with the full schedule.
>
> I got the 12:49 bus, got to the airport by 1:20.  Breezed through secur=
ity and customs in 30 min.  no problems
>
> =E2=80=94Sandy
>


From nobody Wed Jul 31 14:01:07 2019
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To: Stewart Bryant , "Salz, Rich" , Jim Reid , "Scheffenegger, Richard" 
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On 7/29/19 11:42 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
>
> On 29/07/2019 16:32, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>>     Just remember the Golden Rule of air travel: never, ever check 
>>> in a bag.
>>
>> I prefer to avoid the Darwinian fight for overhead space.  And, 
>> conversely, not being one of "those jerks" with more than the average 
>> allowance.
>>
>
> +1
>
> I would be much happier with a smaller single bag rule regardless of 
> status, and consequently much less aggression during boarding.

Then there is this:


https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/southwest-flight-attendant-overhead-bin-trnd/index.html