From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 02 14:16:36 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYR4t-0001h5-FQ; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:16:27 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYR4s-0001gv-AP for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:16:26 -0400 Received: from 64.3.134.163.ptr.us.xo.net ([64.3.134.163] helo=MSONE.sc.telsima.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYR4p-0003A2-Q9 for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:16:26 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:16:09 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Thread-Index: Acdg+5IX7CiPeGOmRhaGdD57B4usigHInU/QAFXEk4AAFTngIADljFKQAfyGmmA= From: "Burcak Beser" To: "Riegel, Maximilian" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Cc: 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Max,=20 Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point before jumping into any conclusions: What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or something more? Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this work in the uplink direction? Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where I can find the details? Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]=20 Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max, I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is missing?=20 Regards, -burcak=20 -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in the I-D).=20 Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM To: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the draft. First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for IP broadcast and multicast data."=20 Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast data on downlink direction for various deployments today.=20 If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this draft. Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it reside? It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. Regards, -burcak _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: 3/18/2007 3:34 PM =20 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 04 15:50:23 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBUp-0004Rh-9S; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:50:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBUc-0004JB-5q; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:50:06 -0400 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBUY-0000yH-Qr; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:50:05 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C2826F04; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBUY-0001gi-Bb; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: [16NG] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPv6 Over the IP Specific part of the Packet Convergence sublayer in 802.16 Networks Author(s) : B. Patil, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2007-4-4 IEEE Std 802.16 is an Air Interface for Fixed and Mobile Broadband Wireless Access Systems. The 802.16 specification includes several service specific convergence sublayers (CS) as part of the MAC (Medium Access Control) layer which are used by upper layer protocols. The ATM CS and Packet CS are the two main service specific convergence sublayers and these are a part of the 802.16 MAC to which the upper layers interface. The packet CS is used for transport for all packet-based protocols such as Internet Protocol (IP), IEEE 802.3 LAN/MAN CSMA/CD Access Method (Ethernet) and, IEEE Std 802.1Q (VLAN). The IP specific part of the Packet CS enables transport of IPv4 and IPv6 packets directly over the MAC. This document specifies the addressing and operation of IPv6 over the IP specific part of the packet CS for hosts served by a network that utilizes the IEEE Std 802.16 air interface. It recommends the assignment of a unique prefix (or prefixes) to each host and allows the host to use multiple identifiers within that prefix, including support for randomly generated interface identifiers. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt". 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-4134347.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-4134347.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --NextPart-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 05 06:33:53 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPHV-00061R-Ex; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:33:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPHT-00061L-Pe for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:33:27 -0400 Received: from gecko.sbs.de ([194.138.37.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPHS-0003oS-3E for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:33:27 -0400 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gecko.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35AXIPq024768; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:33:18 +0200 Received: from fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.222]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35AXI0g012971; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:33:18 +0200 Received: from MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.137]) by fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:33:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:33:17 +0200 Message-ID: <4BB931F00625F54DA8B8563E5A5CA25A013474C3@MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Thread-Index: Acdg+5IX7CiPeGOmRhaGdD57B4usigHInU/QAFXEk4AAFTngIADljFKQAfyGmmAAgX97gA== From: "Riegel, Maximilian" To: "Burcak Beser" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 10:33:17.0828 (UTC) FILETIME=[D2FCEC40:01C7776D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c54bc2f42d02429833c0ca4b8725abd7 Cc: 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Burcak, I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no complete picture. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]=20 Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max,=20 Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point before jumping into any conclusions: What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or something more? Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this work in the uplink direction? Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where I can find the details? Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]=20 Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max, I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is missing?=20 Regards, -burcak=20 -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in the I-D).=20 Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM To: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the draft. First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for IP broadcast and multicast data."=20 Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast data on downlink direction for various deployments today.=20 If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this draft. Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it reside? It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. Regards, -burcak _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: 3/18/2007 3:34 PM =20 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 05 08:59:54 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRYw-0007ka-Pn; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:59:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRYt-0007h9-Gt for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:59:35 -0400 Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.178]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRYp-0002r6-KQ for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:59:35 -0400 Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so370786ika for <16ng@ietf.org>; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:59:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Cf7YjpexKG5EpYBgy2/3JLTDEQqpFG8HL8xf+126piMVdg9ctezf7yx02lgDxm0W+ScRmc2+r3wxPIgrcChli/UdKx0+hWuqJnH+H8VfI1NMFOPeyaS7zIW3HEvP5vJpMTgR61gUcWcPlFO2zYby8hmBiwux5ZnphVvwqvM8ums= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=BNp5X8ZBF2EQXDd/4uJdaJHTkV5Vo/fHBvdDRA9QaZ4diFN8Z1xzwCV9ts5AcyYwGgdTUMFJ9xSLpncL/98guroWT/JNIxPO26El2Zn/j785vg7wCa9tl0Odz1ImUj/qlhV3kbsXysBXNhXk6rbevI4R3mRAURzLuRmqAvXM/MM= Received: by 10.114.26.1 with SMTP id 1mr711844waz.1175777969780; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.36.15 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 05:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:59:29 +0900 From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "Riegel, Maximilian" Subject: Re: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt In-Reply-To: <4BB931F00625F54DA8B8563E5A5CA25A013474C3@MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4BB931F00625F54DA8B8563E5A5CA25A013474C3@MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d008c19e97860b8641c1851f84665a75 Cc: Burcak Beser , 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2121280377==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --===============2121280377== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_44128_7292105.1175777969716" ------=_Part_44128_7292105.1175777969716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Max/Burcak, That's right. Previously, there's no way to realize the Ethernet behavior which provides bidirectional multicast and broadcast. That's why a sort of bridging facility is required when using Ethernet CS between MS and AR in 802.16 links. Junghoon 2007/4/5, Riegel, Maximilian : > > Burcak, > > I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work > in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are > only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top > of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no > complete picture. > > Bye > Max > > -----Original Message----- > From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Riegel, Maximilian > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: RE: > [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt > > Max, > > Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point > before jumping into any conclusions: > > What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) > transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network > deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or > something more? > > Regards, > -burcak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM > To: Burcak Beser > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: RE: > [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt > > Burcak, > > Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this > work in the uplink direction? > Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where > I can find the details? > > Bye > Max > > -----Original Message----- > From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM > To: Riegel, Maximilian > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: RE: > [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt > > Max, > > I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink > broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is > missing? > > Regards, > -burcak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM > To: Burcak Beser > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: RE: > [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt > > Burcak, > > First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and > broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink > multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how > to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in > the I-D). > > Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in > this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when > we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the > comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing > just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. > > Bye > Max > > -----Original Message----- > From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM > To: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: RE: > [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt > > I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the > draft. > > First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 > [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for > IP broadcast and multicast data." > > Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively > support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that > IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, > which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast > data on downlink direction for various deployments today. > > If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as > well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 > cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched > and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on > systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there > are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem > statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this > draft. > > Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" > statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to > the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various > implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a > Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it > reside? > > It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose > of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 > transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful > addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all > implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. > > Regards, > -burcak > > > _______________________________________________ > 16NG mailing list > 16NG@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: > 3/18/2007 3:34 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > 16NG mailing list > 16NG@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > ------=_Part_44128_7292105.1175777969716 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hello Max/Burcak,
 
That's right. Previously, there's no way to realize the Ethernet behavior which provides bidirectional multicast and broadcast. That's why a sort of bridging facility is required when using Ethernet CS between MS and AR in 802.16 links.
 
Junghoon
 
2007/4/5, Riegel, Maximilian <maximilian.riegel@nsn.com>:
Burcak,

I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work
in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are
only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top
of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no
complete picture.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

Max,

Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point
before jumping into any conclusions:

What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract)
transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network
deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or
something more?

Regards,
-burcak

-----Original Message-----
From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM
To: Burcak Beser
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

Burcak,

Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this
work in the uplink direction?
Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where
I can find the details?

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: Burcak Beser [mailto: Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

Max,

I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink
broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is
missing?

Regards,
-burcak

-----Original Message-----
From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM
To: Burcak Beser
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

Burcak,

First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and
broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink
multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how
to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in
the I-D).

Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in
this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when
we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the
comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing
just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM
To: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the
draft.

First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16
[IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for
IP broadcast and multicast data."

Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively
support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that
IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined,
which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast
data on downlink direction for various deployments today.

If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as
well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16
cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched
and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on
systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there
are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem
statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this
draft.

Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD"
statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to
the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various
implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a
Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it
reside?

It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose
of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6
transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful
addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all
implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner.

Regards,
-burcak


_______________________________________________
16NG mailing list
16NG@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date:
3/18/2007 3:34 PM



_______________________________________________
16NG mailing list
16NG@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng

------=_Part_44128_7292105.1175777969716-- --===============2121280377== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============2121280377==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 05 09:21:09 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRtg-0002zI-TZ; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:21:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRtf-0002vz-6s for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:21:03 -0400 Received: from 64.3.134.163.ptr.us.xo.net ([64.3.134.163] helo=MSONE.sc.telsima.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRtd-00066N-8e for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:21:03 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:20:48 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Thread-Index: Acdg+5IX7CiPeGOmRhaGdD57B4usigHInU/QAFXEk4AAFTngIADljFKQAfyGmmAAgX97gAAK+K8g From: "Burcak Beser" To: "Riegel, Maximilian" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 Cc: 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Max, Let me ask again, what is the objective? Is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" the sole objective? Without a clear objective it is not possible to give complete picture. Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@nsn.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:33 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no complete picture. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max,=20 Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point before jumping into any conclusions: What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or something more? Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this work in the uplink direction? Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where I can find the details? Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max, I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is missing?=20 Regards, -burcak=20 -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in the I-D).=20 Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM To: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the draft. First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for IP broadcast and multicast data."=20 Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast data on downlink direction for various deployments today.=20 If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this draft. Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it reside? It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. Regards, -burcak _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: 3/18/2007 3:34 PM =20 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 05 09:23:19 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRvr-0003mk-N5; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:23:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRvq-0003mT-Hr for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:23:18 -0400 Received: from lizzard.sbs.de ([194.138.37.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZRvp-0006Tc-Ag for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:23:18 -0400 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35DNFjm001376; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:23:15 +0200 Received: from fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.201]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35DNCeN004526; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:23:15 +0200 Received: from MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.137]) by fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:22:34 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:22:34 +0200 Message-ID: <4BB931F00625F54DA8B8563E5A5CA25A013474CD@MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Thread-Index: Acd3gkruMvG+u3rFQgKGlHoN9HAO8AAAiqHA From: "Riegel, Maximilian" To: "Junghoon Jee" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 13:22:34.0570 (UTC) FILETIME=[78E0C2A0:01C77785] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2f0065339d489fe5a2873ea9ad776d1a Cc: Burcak Beser , 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1919663644==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1919663644== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77785.789AD51C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C77785.789AD51C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And the really tricky issue starts, if you like to define in detail how a IEEE802.1D bridge fits to IEEE802.16. Usually you have to break the Ethernet architecture model to make it working somehow. =20 Bye Max ________________________________ From: ext Junghoon Jee [mailto:junghoon.jee@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:59 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: Burcak Beser; 16ng@ietf.org Subject: Re: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Hello Max/Burcak, =20 That's right. Previously, there's no way to realize the Ethernet behavior which provides bidirectional multicast and broadcast. That's why a sort of bridging facility is required when using Ethernet CS between MS and AR in 802.16 links. =20 Junghoon =20 2007/4/5, Riegel, Maximilian :=20 Burcak, =09 I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are=20 only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no complete picture. =09 Bye Max =09 -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: =09 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt =09 Max, =09 Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point before jumping into any conclusions: =09 What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or=20 something more? =09 Regards, -burcak =09 -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM=20 To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: =09 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt =09 Burcak, =09 Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this=20 work in the uplink direction? Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where I can find the details? =09 Bye Max =09 -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto: Burcak.Beser@telsima.com ] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: =09 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 =09 Max, =09 I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is missing? =09 Regards, -burcak =09 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org=20 Subject: RE: =09 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt =09 Burcak, =09 First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink=20 multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in the I-D). =09 Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in=20 this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing=20 just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. =09 Bye Max =09 -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM To: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: =09 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt =09 I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the=20 draft. =09 First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for IP broadcast and multicast data." =09 Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast=20 data on downlink direction for various deployments today. =09 If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched=20 and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem=20 statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this draft. =09 Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to=20 the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it reside?=20 =09 It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all=20 implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. =09 Regards, -burcak =09 =09 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org=20 https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng =09 =09 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: 3/18/2007 3:34 PM =09 =09 =09 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C77785.789AD51C Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And the really tricky issue starts, if you = like to=20 define in detail how a IEEE802.1D bridge fits to IEEE802.16. = Usually you=20 have to break the Ethernet architecture model to make it working=20 somehow.
 
Bye
Max

From: ext Junghoon Jee=20 [mailto:junghoon.jee@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, = 2007 2:59=20 PM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: Burcak Beser;=20 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: Re:=20 [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt

Hello Max/Burcak,
 
That's right. Previously, there's no way to realize the Ethernet = behavior=20 which provides bidirectional multicast and broadcast. That's why = a sort of=20 bridging facility is required when using Ethernet CS between MS and = AR in=20 802.16 links.
 
Junghoon
 
2007/4/5, Riegel, Maximilian <maximilian.riegel@nsn.com&g= t;:=20
Burcak,

I=20 am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may = work
in=20 IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are =
only=20 available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on = top
of=20 IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but = no
complete=20 picture.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: = Burcak=20 Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]Sent:=20 Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM
To: Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject:=20 = RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.tx= t

Max,

Since=20 you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second = point
before=20 jumping into any conclusions:

What is the objective of the = draft? Is=20 this simply "(from the abstract)
transmission of IPv4 as well as = IPv6 over=20 Ethernet in a network
deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio = transmission=20 technology" or
something=20 more?

Regards,
-burcak

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.c= om]
Sent:=20 Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM
To: Burcak Beser
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject:=20 = RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.tx= t

Burcak,

Downlink=20 multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this
work = in the=20 uplink direction?
Can you point me to the sections in the = IEEE802.16=20 specification, where
I can find the=20 details?

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: = Burcak=20 Beser [mailto:=20 Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 = AM
To:=20 Riegel, Maximilian
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject:=20 = RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.tx= t=20

Max,

I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 = regarding=20 downlink
broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you = elaborate on=20 what is
missing?

Regards,
-burcak

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.c= om]
Sent:=20 Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM
To: Burcak Beser
Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject:=20 = RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.tx= t

Burcak,

First,=20 even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast = and
broadcast=20 on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink
multicast, = the=20 IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how
to = accomplish=20 this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in
the=20 I-D).

Second, I agree with you that there is not enough = normative=20 language in
this revision. More normative language is due for the = next=20 version when
we have established the right framework for it. When = reviewing=20 all the
comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were = addressing
just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting=20 together.

Bye
Max

-----Original Message-----
From: = Burcak=20 Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]Sent:=20 Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM
To: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject:=20 = RE:
[16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.tx= t

I=20 have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the=20
draft.

First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) = "Current=20 IEEE 802.16
[IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport = connection for
IP broadcast and multicast data."

Even though = it is=20 true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively
support = bi-directional=20 broadcast domains, it is my understanding that
IEEE 802.16 has both = broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined,
which is being used = effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast
data on = downlink=20 direction for various deployments today.

If the aim of the = draft is=20 "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as
well as IPv6 over = Ethernet in=20 a network deploying the IEEE 802.16
cellular radio transmission=20 technology", the subject is well researched
and there are many = simpler=20 schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on
systems where uplink is = unicast=20 and broadcast downlink exists. If there
are other implied = requirements I=20 would like to see them on a problem
statement section since these = are=20 beyond the published scope of this
draft.

Second, the use of = minimal=20 normative language with only one "SHOULD"
statement along with a = single=20 non-normative "shall" statement alludes to
the fact that it is = possible=20 and highly probable that various
implentations will not behave the = same=20 manner. One example is whether a
Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is = required or=20 not; further where should it
reside?

It can further be said = that=20 the draft does not even meet its own purpose
of emulating broadcast = domains=20 for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6
transmissions. The draft will be = improved=20 greately by the careful
addition of normative statements which = would also=20 make sure that all
implentations based on this draft will behave = in a=20 predictable=20 = manner.

Regards,
-burcak


___________________________= ____________________
16NG=20 mailing list
16NG@ietf.org =
https://www1.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/16ng


--
No=20 virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free=20 Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release = Date:
3/18/2007 3:34=20 = PM



_______________________________________________
16NG= =20 mailing list
16NG@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/16ng

------_=_NextPart_001_01C77785.789AD51C-- --===============1919663644== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============1919663644==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 05 09:51:42 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZSNC-0002Us-3k; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:51:34 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZSNB-0002Un-9M for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:51:33 -0400 Received: from lizzard.sbs.de ([194.138.37.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZSN8-0002CV-Kc for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:51:33 -0400 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35DpTjU031334; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:51:29 +0200 Received: from fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.222]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35DpTHP029480; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:51:29 +0200 Received: from MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.137]) by fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:51:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:51:13 +0200 Message-ID: <4BB931F00625F54DA8B8563E5A5CA25A013474CE@MCHP7I6A.ww002.siemens.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt Thread-Index: Acdg+5IX7CiPeGOmRhaGdD57B4usigHInU/QAFXEk4AAFTngIADljFKQAfyGmmAAgX97gAAK+K8gAAB8qCA= From: "Riegel, Maximilian" To: "Burcak Beser" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 13:51:15.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[7AA188A0:01C77789] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a Cc: 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Burcak, The rest of the abstract is providing further details. And reading chapter 5 may provide you the bigger picture. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: ext Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:21 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max, Let me ask again, what is the objective? Is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" the sole objective? Without a clear objective it is not possible to give complete picture. Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@nsn.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:33 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, I am still missing the explanation how multicast and broadcast may work in IEEE802.16? You mentioned multicast and broadcast CIDs, but they are only available in downlink, and how to realize Ethernet behavior on top of IEEE802.16? In the best case I can imagine some fragments, but no complete picture. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:16 PM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max,=20 Since you agree with my first point now, let's look at the second point before jumping into any conclusions: What is the objective of the draft? Is this simply "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology" or something more? Regards, -burcak -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:02 PM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, Downlink multicast and broadcast is not the issue, but how does this work in the uplink direction? Can you point me to the sections in the IEEE802.16 specification, where I can find the details? Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:01 AM To: Riegel, Maximilian Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Max, I am not aware of anything missing in the 802.16 regarding downlink broadcast and multicast data transmissions. Can you elaborate on what is missing?=20 Regards, -burcak=20 -----Original Message----- From: Riegel, Maximilian [mailto:maximilian.riegel@siemens.com] Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM To: Burcak Beser Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 Burcak, First, even when there are examples out how to provide IP multicast and broadcast on link layers providing uplink unicast and downlink multicast, the IEEE802.16 specification does not provide the details how to accomplish this over an 802.16 transport connection (... as stated in the I-D).=20 Second, I agree with you that there is not enough normative language in this revision. More normative language is due for the next version when we have established the right framework for it. When reviewing all the comments on -00.txt we found that most of the comments were addressing just clarifications on how the pieces are fitting together. Bye Max -----Original Message----- From: Burcak Beser [mailto:Burcak.Beser@telsima.com] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:08 AM To: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: RE: [16NG]I-DACTION:draft-ietf-16ng-ip-over-ethernet-over-802.16-01.txt=20 I have two basic issues before going into a detailed readout fo the draft. First, the draft states that (from section 5.2.) "Current IEEE 802.16 [IEEE802.16][IEEE802.16e] does not define any transport connection for IP broadcast and multicast data."=20 Even though it is true that the IEEE 802.16 MAC does not natively support bi-directional broadcast domains, it is my understanding that IEEE 802.16 has both broadcast and multicast downlink CID's defined, which is being used effectively to transport IP broadcast and multicast data on downlink direction for various deployments today.=20 If the aim of the draft is "(from the abstract) transmission of IPv4 as well as IPv6 over Ethernet in a network deploying the IEEE 802.16 cellular radio transmission technology", the subject is well researched and there are many simpler schemes alrady deployed for this purpose on systems where uplink is unicast and broadcast downlink exists. If there are other implied requirements I would like to see them on a problem statement section since these are beyond the published scope of this draft. Second, the use of minimal normative language with only one "SHOULD" statement along with a single non-normative "shall" statement alludes to the fact that it is possible and highly probable that various implentations will not behave the same manner. One example is whether a Proxy ARP (section 6.2.) is required or not; further where should it reside? It can further be said that the draft does not even meet its own purpose of emulating broadcast domains for the purpose of IPv4 and IPv6 transmissions. The draft will be improved greately by the careful addition of normative statements which would also make sure that all implentations based on this draft will behave in a predictable manner. Regards, -burcak _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: 3/18/2007 3:34 PM =20 _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From necojp@citiz.net Fri Apr 06 12:19:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZr9i-0000Jo-6e for 16NG-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:19:18 -0400 Received: from [222.170.65.140] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZr9f-0005X1-3z for 16NG-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:19:18 -0400 Received: from rjfoemjqy9 (unknown [34.109.215.170]) by smtp23 (Coremail) with SMTP id QzlnsAU6NPzcjEGV.1 for <16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:17:13 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [34.109.215.170] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQmc/TSROJTslVSVsJE43RzwoSEQbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?aW5mb3JtYXRpb24=?= To: <16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B!F$?$@$G%d%l%k%h$C!*!G1=$,??M$N>l=j!#(B $B13$G$O$"$j$^$;$s!#(B $B$3$3$N7G<(HD$r8+$l$P$=$l$,J,$+$k$O$:$C!*!*(B $B!AJ}K!!A(B $B2<5-$N#U#R#L$+$iF~>l$7$F7G<(HD$K<+J,$N%W%m%U%#!<%k$r=q$-9~$`!#(B http://cb402.ath.cx/pure/?qdq31 $B",(B $B%3%l$@$1$G$9!#$"$H$OO"Mm$rBT$D$@$1I,$:JV?.$,$-$^$9!#(B $BJV?.$,$-$?$i!"$"$H$O%d%k$J$jCG$k$J$j5.J}
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=1B$B"($*6b$O0l@Z$+$+$j$^$;$s!#=1B(B
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
=1B$B$4LBOG$G$7$?$i$3$A$i$G!#!#=1B(B
saki_honda19@yahoo.fr
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90-- From necojp@citiz.net Fri Apr 06 16:28:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZv2j-0003il-18 for 16NG-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:28:21 -0400 Received: from [222.170.65.140] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZv2d-0001wM-BN for 16NG-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:28:21 -0400 Received: from squepwx8 (unknown [201.163.197.43]) by smtp59 (Coremail) with SMTP id sDesh3xAETEjFlRz.1 for <16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:26:18 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [201.163.197.43] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQmc/TSROJTslVSVsJE43RzwoSEQbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?aW5mb3JtYXRpb24=?= To: <16ng-archive@lists.ietf.org> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B!F$?$@$G%d%l%k%h$C!*!G1=$,??M$N>l=j!#(B $B13$G$O$"$j$^$;$s!#(B $B$3$3$N7G<(HD$r8+$l$P$=$l$,J,$+$k$O$:$C!*!*(B $B!AJ}K!!A(B $B2<5-$N#U#R#L$+$iF~>l$7$F7G<(HD$K<+J,$N%W%m%U%#!<%k$r=q$-9~$`!#(B http://cb402.ath.cx/pure/?qdq31 $B",(B $B%3%l$@$1$G$9!#$"$H$OO"Mm$rBT$D$@$1I,$:JV?.$,$-$^$9!#(B $BJV?.$,$-$?$i!"$"$H$O%d%k$J$jCG$k$J$j5.J}
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=1B$BCK$b=3Dw$b@-M_$b$F$"$^$7$F$^$9!#!#=1B(B
=1B$B$3$s$J7G<(HD$G$9$,!"$b$7@-M_$,$?$^$C$FMh$?$H$-$K$O5$7Z$K3hM= Q$7$F$_$F$/$@$5$$!#=1B(B
 
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=1B$B$4LBOG$G$7$?$i$3$A$i$G!#!#=1B(B
saki_honda19@yahoo.fr
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C776E0.CDB76A90-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 12 00:43:05 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbr9D-0003CC-NR; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:43:03 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbr9C-0003Bu-3s for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:43:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbr99-0003Bj-2a for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:42:59 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbr98-0007Vv-Gz for 16ng@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:42:59 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B362A19866D for <16ng@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:42:57 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54346198669 for <16ng@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:42:57 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <461DB8D2.60402@piuha.net> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:42:58 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 16ng@ietf.org References: <200704120037.l3C0blPJ028940@nit.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <200704120037.l3C0blPJ028940@nit.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Subject: [16NG] FW: RFC 4840 on Multiple Encapsulation Methods Considered Harmful X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org FYI > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4840 > > Title: Multiple Encapsulation Methods Considered Harmful > Author: B. Aboba, Ed., > E. Davies, D. Thaler > Status: Informational > Date: April 2007 > Mailbox: bernarda@microsoft.com, > elwynd@dial.pipex.com, > dthaler@microsoft.com > Pages: 27 > Characters: 65287 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-iab-link-encaps-08.txt > > URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4840.txt > > This document describes architectural and operational issues that arise > from link-layer protocols supporting multiple Internet Protocol > encapsulation methods. This memo provides information for the Internet > community. > > This document is a product of the Internet Architecture Board. > > > INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. > It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution > of this memo is unlimited. > > This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. > Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list > should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be > added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should > be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. > > Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending > an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body > > help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: > > To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG > Subject: getting rfcs > > help: ways_to_get_rfcs > > Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the > author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless > specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for > unlimited distribution. > > Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to > RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC > Authors, for further information. > > > The RFC Editor Team > USC/Information Sciences Institute > > ... > > > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > > _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Sun Apr 15 22:06:50 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdGcD-0007ko-NP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:06:49 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdGcD-0007hG-0R for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:06:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdGc9-0007ad-3Q for 16ng@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:06:45 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.244]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdGc7-00049U-NT for 16ng@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:06:45 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so1681695and for <16ng@ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type; b=ME+x7lOQKx05SO1Mx3Lvmr+IDA4PgboBaoF1gzu3S40Mrz24JGEJDmSHfCOUZ3B2byBl5/0/5LoxorDPiWJmgFc4VyfiOq4dyJQTYsf2x3X/NMuBgqNxl9bk/YFN6vyVNr13XOXm3zzrUiC0l84qacSiU1wnS17ERUlt0VUS39E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type; b=SC+oULZ5cKWVjueIBmdleOcI35bMi+dKrduEUJOTMkcVwszPUfy9/SnN1Qpjv3Ue5G3fs4vP2mEIw8nN3bBNRqM8SVaXgVV80w/jxsPgBJzaGLgI4J4/miEMFs/4ps2zOX3GeGyLELntxxPozHGPTOIn1iZv4d6tk4bee1ylCtI= Received: by 10.100.57.14 with SMTP id f14mr4133323ana.1176689203365; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.164.1 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d5d1f6f0704151906q51bb1435r62dede409b2258b5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:06:43 +0900 From: "=?EUC-KR?B?sei7877w?=" To: bernarda@microsoft.com, elwynd@dial.pipex.com, dthaler@microsoft.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: 16ng@ietf.org Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0493433257==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --===============0493433257== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31008_9524910.1176689203287" ------=_Part_31008_9524910.1176689203287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field. Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper layer service. For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification of the upper layer protocol, in reference at http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet only. It doesn't matter. When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header. Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS should be processed at the BS. Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and implementation. Which is preferred prefix model? Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? What is your preferred CS ? and Why? thanks ------------------------------------------------ Sang-Eon Kim Senior Researcher Infra. Lab., KT 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea Voice: +82-2-526-6117 Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_31008_9524910.1176689203287 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Authors of the RFC 4840,
 
IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more.
Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field.
 
Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper layer service.
For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. 
The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification of the upper layer protocol, in reference at http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers
 
If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet only. It doesn't matter.
When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header.
 
Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS should be processed at the BS.
Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and implementation.
 
Which is preferred prefix model?
Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ?
What is your preferred CS ? and Why?
 
thanks 
 
------------------------------------------------
Sang-Eon Kim
Senior Researcher
Infra. Lab., KT
139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea

Voice: +82-2-526-6117
Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084
E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------
------=_Part_31008_9524910.1176689203287-- --===============0493433257== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============0493433257==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 16 01:50:25 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdK6Y-0003pA-00; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:50:22 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdK6X-0003p4-Gn for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:50:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdK6X-0003ot-4y for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:50:21 -0400 Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdK6V-0004ip-J5 for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:50:21 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGK001JOTIFNG@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:49:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JGK005EATIF5H@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:49:27 +0800 (CST) Received: from q52443 ([10.164.5.117]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0JGK00KFMTIAN1@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:49:27 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:49:26 +0800 From: qinxia Subject: RE: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? In-reply-to: <7d5d1f6f0704151906q51bb1435r62dede409b2258b5@mail.gmail.com> To: '???' , bernarda@microsoft.com, elwynd@dial.pipex.com, dthaler@microsoft.com Message-id: <005501c77fea$fe7c9200$7505a40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: Acd/y+8bC+YlyWsvRDGopTMOFC7MVwADaMmw X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Cc: 16ng@ietf.org X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Hello, Please see inline. Best regards Alice > -----Original Message----- > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM > To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com; > dthaler@microsoft.com > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field. > > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > layer service. > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > only. It doesn't matter. > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header. > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC header, the frame is still needed to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes. > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > should be processed at the BS. > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > implementation. > > Which is preferred prefix model? > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > > thanks > > ------------------------------------------------ > Sang-Eon Kim > Senior Researcher > Infra. Lab., KT > 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea > > Voice: +82-2-526-6117 > Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 > E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 16 07:03:57 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdP00-0003k9-GO; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:03:56 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdOzy-0003hM-Vb for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:03:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdOzy-0003fm-LI for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:03:54 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.249]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdOzx-00025g-6w for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:03:54 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so1821937and for <16ng@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=dBhjBpZF1/LuqT8wSni3n2/teyV5y6kg/59dGpdkmLVxomF1GnYsHY2uyMR+MlaEmCp8uduGMgJPynDByximb++JdZiRrMT8N7t/Fta6/PzurNhKa5gSAElk5K6r5PfdgjcgvuvTE2NMk1aIrFuBzHydGOdM0e0c68f1RH9FUX4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ULM7EEkkdkEYcso/jMI+bxf4JUqZXIlnmZ9fd0aTbMASXZRLnDqFDC4cNaer8dZRIXRTp9rSLOL5xVLol/sq7a245qP3sdNvcRLKhZNrF9l77NnEUnyD9kUouqmyWC4ROf5S/K3QTvg+0CACLI41BBubujLsG1BzhcDEUylAEI0= Received: by 10.100.143.1 with SMTP id q1mr1555866and.1176721432558; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.164.1 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d5d1f6f0704160403q1a6088b9k9b69a7993a792fa8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:03:52 +0900 From: "=?EUC-KR?B?sei7877w?=" To: qinxia Subject: Re: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? In-Reply-To: <005501c77fea$fe7c9200$7505a40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7d5d1f6f0704151906q51bb1435r62dede409b2258b5@mail.gmail.com> <005501c77fea$fe7c9200$7505a40a@china.huawei.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, dthaler@microsoft.com X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0309090264==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --===============0309090264== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_36735_23955600.1176721432314" ------=_Part_36735_23955600.1176721432314 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2007/4/16, qinxia : > > Hello, > > Please see inline. > > Best regards > > Alice > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM > > To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com; > > dthaler@microsoft.com > > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > > Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? > > > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field. > > > > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > > layer service. > > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > > only. It doesn't matter. > > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header. > > > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? > Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC header, the frame is > still needed > to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. > The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes. According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer" > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > should be processed at the BS. > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > implementation. > > Which is preferred prefix model? > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > > thanks ------------------------------------------------ Sang-Eon Kim Senior Researcher Infra. Lab., KT 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea Voice: +82-2-526-6117 Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_36735_23955600.1176721432314 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

2007/4/16, qinxia <alice.Q@huawei.com>:
Hello,

Please see inline.

Best regards

Alice

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com;
> dthaler@microsoft.com
> Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
> Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ?
>
> Dear Authors of the RFC 4840,
>
> IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS)
> including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet,
> IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more.
> Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS
> because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field.
>
> Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper
> layer service.
> For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used
> 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively.
> The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification
> of the upper layer protocol, in reference at
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers
>
> If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet
> only. It doesn't matter.
> When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16
> and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than
> Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header.
>
==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame?
Even though CS type is indicated on the very  MAC header, the frame is still needed
to be classified with classifier due to QoS support.
The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes.
 
According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer"
 
> Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be
> used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS
> should be processed at the BS.
> Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared
> prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and
> implementation.
>

> Which is preferred prefix model?
> Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system
> (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4
> tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ?
> What is your preferred CS ? and Why?
>
> thanks

------------------------------------------------
Sang-Eon Kim
Senior Researcher
Infra. Lab., KT
139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea

Voice: +82-2-526-6117
Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084
E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_36735_23955600.1176721432314-- --===============0309090264== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============0309090264==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 16 14:52:44 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWJf-0000SA-BE; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:52:43 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWJe-0000Rr-3t for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:52:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWJd-0000Rj-Qc for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:52:41 -0400 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.236]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWJc-0003gV-JX for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:52:41 -0400 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 71so1542057wri for <16ng@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:52:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ueSZQP/rm7TkFvvnzXqkALqfMuV20yJOb5nzImNZ+4Tagc+Hh8iUuYOwh7GuPIVt7mHiKSQYzq3EvOUGc+VKOwJU6YIFdABx85mMMSne7FQ0qZYRmsxq+GE2j3EAWII0CUCZOy/OF8MbAfz2Wa6VOrfDTOlj1EyK4ZlmHDjB0P8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=un9Iph/bzPKoZRZM+bBMvv40ehckz+kYN6Uw4pC8cTnrNaIzEc7t1TRegdqclS2HHT/E0Qg4LROsoiN+zjYikSApJ8H1Bh+bf6eSOJTJk489FozE/RqYbb2vIuqzWKQ2gesxiVwActF/sz7S5UTA0hF5eE+8SBaMunCWnED411A= Received: by 10.115.55.1 with SMTP id h1mr924614wak.1176749559782; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.136.3 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:52:39 +0900 From: "Daniel Park" To: "16ng@ietf.org" <16ng@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Subject: [16NG] 68-IETF minutes X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Can be found at: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/minutes/16ng.txt Let me know if you see any bugs in there. -- Daniel Park _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 16 22:32:34 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HddUf-00070f-SS; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:32:33 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HddUe-00070a-R3 for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:32:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HddUe-00070S-G1 for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:32:32 -0400 Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HddUd-0004Qx-6R for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:32:32 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGM00A46F0UDV@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGM006H1F0S43@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.32.173]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0JGM005WPF0OC2@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:40 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:36 +0800 From: "John.zhao" Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D:_=5B16NG=5D_What_is_your_opinions?= =?utf-8?Q?_regarding_to_IEEE802.16=3F?= In-reply-to: <7d5d1f6f0704160403q1a6088b9k9b69a7993a792fa8@mail.gmail.com> To: =?utf-8?B?J+q5gOyDgeyWuCc=?= , 'qinxia' Message-id: <007f01c78098$85ef3820$ad20790a@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AceAFvRSkbvEf9bDRaeLNWMaPFggrQAgAC3g X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d7967c711acf4eec6f9b62d49dcc5a34 Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, dthaler@microsoft.com X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1144333313==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1144333313== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_CTqL2UZFT2FeJ/WPtDxU1w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_CTqL2UZFT2FeJ/WPtDxU1w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi folks See comments inline. Best Rgds, Thanks, John.zhao > -----Original Message----- > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM > To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com; > dthaler@microsoft.com > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ? > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field. > [zhao] I think IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one kind of CS simultaneously to one MN. > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > layer service. > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > only. It doesn't matter. > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header. > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC header, the frame is still needed to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes. According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer" [zhao] The IEEE802.16 provide the Classifier mechanism to do the distinguishment. > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > should be processed at the BS. > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > implementation. > > Which is preferred prefix model? > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > [zhao]Do you plan to provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support simultaneously. Before we mention about how to do this, I think it is the best to clarify why we need to do this. > thanks ------------------------------------------------ Sang-Eon Kim Senior Researcher Infra. Lab., KT 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea Voice: +82-2-526-6117 Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------ --Boundary_(ID_CTqL2UZFT2FeJ/WPtDxU1w) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = folks

 

=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= See comments inline.

 

=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

=

John.zhao<= /p>

 

=

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com;
> dthaler@microsoft.com
> Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
> Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ?
>
> Dear Authors of the RFC 4840,
>
> IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS)
> including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet,
> IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more.
> Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS
> because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification = field.
>

[zhao] I think = IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one kind of CS simultaneously to one = MN.

=C2=A0
> Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper
> layer service.
> For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used
> 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively.
> The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification
> of the upper layer protocol, in reference at
> http://www.iana= .org/assignments/protocol-numbers
>
> If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet
> only. It doesn't matter.
> When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16
> and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than
> Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC = header.
>
=3D=3D> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? =
Even though CS type is indicated on the very  MAC header, the = frame is still needed
to be classified with classifier due to QoS support.
The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed = sometimes.

 

According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it = is recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer"

 

[zhao] The IEEE802.16 = provide the Classifier mechanism to do the distinguishment. =

 <= /span>

> Even if connection identifier (CID) = field of 16 header can be
> used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS
> should be processed at the BS.
> Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared
> prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and
> implementation.
>

> Which is preferred prefix model?
> Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system
> (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4
> tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ?
> What is your preferred CS ? and Why?
>

[zhao]Do you plan to = provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support simultaneously.

Before we mention = about how to do this, I think it is the best to clarify why we need to do = this.


> thanks


------------------------------------------------
Sang-Eon Kim
Senior Researcher
Infra. Lab., KT
139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea

Voice: +82-2-526-6117
Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084
E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com =
------------------------------------------------ =

--Boundary_(ID_CTqL2UZFT2FeJ/WPtDxU1w)-- --===============1144333313== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============1144333313==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 17 02:28:40 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdhB9-0007jk-Oo; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:28:39 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdhB8-0007je-5M for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:28:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdhB7-0007jW-Q5 for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:28:37 -0400 Received: from smtp.vip.sina.com ([202.108.3.172]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdhB3-0001TM-O1 for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:28:37 -0400 Received: from DELLWEI (unknown [211.160.21.17]) by smtp.vip.sina.com (SINAMAIL) with ESMTP id 3670544A4CF for <16ng@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:28:23 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <000c01c780b9$934e3630$d936fea9@DELLWEI> From: "Wei Gengyu" To: <16ng@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:28:12 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Subject: [16NG] question about RFC4840 X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0715536783==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0715536783== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============0715536783==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 17 04:24:10 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdiyv-00066z-BK; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:24:09 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdiyu-00066E-E0 for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:24:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdiyr-00065e-Ac for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:24:05 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.245]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdiyo-00074j-Kg for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:24:05 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so2276132and for <16ng@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:24:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RKiMJJ8QPkQAJV31wEWIg5OOkb2tojNaS3TD8ArKFAJR1kD/9NNiw+YUMYo80bxc9/P3I1tBtgnW1nIbM4d7wo3Ro8mj32UlSQNlcNGrt9TAffn03WSVzqECyV4fMLOplC9An61K7jBcmw+JG/9aHMM0RVv4Xj8+lnIdZTEXfnI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RJQ6GkNuqBFwzHARpe4+4Sk1yyykaMUV5tF2VBFE8Snt789/2upJl0cJLxIb8gll9aVO8KJ1eJhQY3+LMX4Tf5C29eCeXJV5WzIN6WB6D1+KBq3lfDCOaTWYlE8lp7GronbRA7Myl0BH2FYeZ60BXP8HFRSWaFIPoVmATJjYQlE= Received: by 10.100.174.16 with SMTP id w16mr5202477ane.1176798241941; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.163.5 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d5d1f6f0704170124g29f3430fl2d2fa81f0525fdce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:24:01 +0900 From: "=?EUC-KR?B?sei7877w?=" To: john.zhao@huawei.com, alice.Q@huawei.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 612a16ba5c5f570bfc42b3ac5606ac53 Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, dthaler@microsoft.com Subject: [16NG] Re: 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1209934321==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --===============1209934321== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_64435_24347226.1176798241882" ------=_Part_64435_24347226.1176798241882 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2007/4/17, 16ng-request@ietf.org <16ng-request@ietf.org>: > > Send 16NG mailing list submissions to > 16ng@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 16ng-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 16ng-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 16NG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? > (John.zhao) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:36 +0800 > From: "John.zhao" > Subject: ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? > To: '???' , 'qinxia' > Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, > dthaler@microsoft.com > Message-ID: <007f01c78098$85ef3820$ad20790a@china.huawei.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi folks > > > > See comments inline. > > > > Best Rgds, > > Thanks, > > > > John.zhao > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM > > To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com; > > dthaler@microsoft.com > > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > > Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ? > > > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field. > > > > [zhao] I think IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one kind of CS > simultaneously to one MN. In the view of implementation, we can understand either IPv4 or IPv6 as well as both IPv4 and IPv6 based on IEEE802.16-2004 REG-REQ/RSP message which can refer to section 11.7.4 on page pp668. If we used both IPv4 and IPv6 at the REG-REQ/RSP message, BS should resolve the packet type. > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > > layer service. > > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > > only. It doesn't matter. > > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header. > > > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? > Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC header, the frame is > still needed > to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. > The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes. > > > > According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is recommended that > "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) > to be demultiplexed in the link layer" > > > > [zhao] The IEEE802.16 provide the Classifier mechanism to do the > distinguishment. RFC4840 rescommends as following in section 3.2 and 3.3 "Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be avoided." and "Link-layer classification schemes should not rely on the contents of higher-layer headers." respectively. Also, your comments are inappropriate for section 3.1. > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > > should be processed at the BS. > > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > > implementation. > > > > > Which is preferred prefix model? > > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > > > > [zhao]Do you plan to provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support simultaneously. Yes, We are seriously considering technical issues to support IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously. Before we mention about how to do this, I think it is the best to clarify > why we need to do this. > > > > thanks > > > End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 > *********************************** > > ------------------------------------------------ > Sang-Eon Kim > Senior Researcher > Infra. Lab., KT > 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea > > Voice: +82-2-526-6117 > Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 > E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_64435_24347226.1176798241882 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

2007/4/17, 16ng-request@ietf.org <16ng-request@ietf.org>:
Send 16NG mailing list submissions to
       16ng@ietf.org

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       https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

  1. ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16?
     (John.zhao)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:36 +0800
From: "John.zhao" <john.zhao@huawei.com>
Subject: ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ?
To: '???' <kim.sangeon@gmail.com>,      'qinxia' <alice.Q@huawei.com>
Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org,
       dthaler@microsoft.com
Message-ID: <007f01c78098$85ef3820$ad20790a@china.huawei.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi folks



      See comments inline.



      Best Rgds,

Thanks,



John.zhao



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com ]
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com;
> dthaler@microsoft.com
> Cc: 16ng@ietf.org
> Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16 ?
>
> Dear Authors of the RFC 4840,
>
> IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS)
> including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet,
> IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more.
> Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS
> because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS identification field.
>

[zhao] I think IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one kind of CS simultaneously to one MN.
 
In the view of implementation, we can understand either IPv4 or IPv6 as well as both IPv4 and IPv6 based on IEEE802.16-2004 REG-REQ/RSP message which can refer to section 11.7.4 on page pp668.
If we used both IPv4 and IPv6 at the REG-REQ/RSP message, BS should resolve the packet type.

> Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper
> layer service.
> For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used
> 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively.
> The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification
> of the upper layer protocol, in reference at
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers
>
> If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet
> only. It doesn't matter.
> When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16
> and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than
> Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 MAC header.
>
==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame?
Even though CS type is indicated on the very  MAC header, the frame is still needed
to be classified with classifier due to QoS support.
The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still needed sometimes.



According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer"



[zhao] The IEEE802.16 provide the Classifier mechanism to do the distinguishment.
 
RFC4840 rescommends as following in section 3.2 and 3.3
"Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be avoided." and "Link-layer classification schemes should not rely on the contents of higher-layer headers." respectively.
Also, your comments are inappropriate for section 3.1.

> Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be
> used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS
> should be processed at the BS.
> Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared
> prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and
> implementation.
>

> Which is preferred prefix model?
> Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system
> (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4
> tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ?
> What is your preferred CS ? and Why?
>

[zhao]Do you plan to provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support simultaneously.
 
Yes, We are seriously considering technical issues to support IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously.

Before we mention about how to do this, I think it is the best to clarify why we need to do this.


> thanks


End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13
***********************************

------------------------------------------------
Sang-Eon Kim
Senior Researcher
Infra. Lab., KT
139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea

Voice: +82-2-526-6117
Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084
E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------
------=_Part_64435_24347226.1176798241882-- --===============1209934321== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============1209934321==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 17 05:46:05 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkGC-0007DY-IJ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:46:04 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkGA-00078V-Iv for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:46:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkGA-00078N-85 for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:46:02 -0400 Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.53]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkG7-0006nn-Pf for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:46:02 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGM003R8Z0KIK@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:43:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGM00KR2Z0JOI@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:43:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from q52443 ([10.164.5.117]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0JGM002ABZ0FV7@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:43:31 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:43:27 +0800 From: qinxia Subject: RE: [16NG] Re: 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 In-reply-to: <7d5d1f6f0704170124g29f3430fl2d2fa81f0525fdce@mail.gmail.com> To: '???' , john.zhao@huawei.com Message-id: <009801c780d4$d9edc950$7505a40a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AceAydADVdoy3IV2TIiKBTLRf9HZ8QACaeLA X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b6657e60309a1317174c9db2ae5f227 Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, dthaler@microsoft.com X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:24 PM > To: john.zhao@huawei.com; alice.Q@huawei.com > Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com; bernarda@microsoft.com; > 16ng@ietf.org; dthaler@microsoft.com > Subject: [16NG] Re: 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 > > > > 2007/4/17, 16ng-request@ietf.org <16ng-request@ietf.org>: > > Send 16NG mailing list submissions to > 16ng@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 16ng-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 16ng-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > than "Re: Contents of 16NG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to IEEE802.16? > (John.zhao) > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:31:36 +0800 > From: "John.zhao" > Subject: ??: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to > IEEE802.16 ? > To: '???' , 'qinxia' > > Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, > 16ng@ietf.org, > dthaler@microsoft.com > Message-ID: <007f01c78098$85ef3820$ad20790a@china.huawei.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi folks > > > > See comments inline. > > > > Best Rgds, > > Thanks, > > > > John.zhao > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ??? [mailto:kim.sangeon@gmail.com ] > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:07 AM > > To: bernarda@microsoft.com; elwynd@dial.pipex.com; > > dthaler@microsoft.com > > Cc: 16ng@ietf.org > > Subject: [16NG] What is your opinions regarding to > IEEE802.16 ? > > > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS > identification field. > > > > [zhao] I think IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one > kind of CS simultaneously to one MN. > > > In the view of implementation, we can understand either IPv4 > or IPv6 as well as both IPv4 and IPv6 based on > IEEE802.16-2004 REG-REQ/RSP message which can refer to > section 11.7.4 on page pp668. > If we used both IPv4 and IPv6 at the REG-REQ/RSP message, BS > should resolve the packet type. > > > > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > > layer service. > > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > > only. It doesn't matter. > > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 > MAC header. > > > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? > Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC > header, the frame is still needed > to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. > The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still > needed sometimes. > > > > According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is > recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network > packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer" > > > > [zhao] The IEEE802.16 provide the Classifier mechanism > to do the distinguishment. > > > RFC4840 rescommends as following in section 3.2 and 3.3 > "Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be > avoided." and "Link-layer classification schemes should not > rely on the contents of higher-layer headers." respectively. > Also, your comments are inappropriate for section 3.1. [qx] yes, I agree that "Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be avoided." in case of transport over link layer. Moreover, if we mean to meet requirement from QOS or charging by means of classification. Classification is not ever a bad boy. > > > > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > > should be processed at the BS. > > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > > implementation. > > > > > Which is preferred prefix model? > > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > > > > [zhao]Do you plan to provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support > simultaneously. > > > Yes, We are seriously considering technical issues to support > IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously. [qx] to be frank, I am confused on this argument, do you mean, address dual stack communication problems within MAC layer? > > > Before we mention about how to do this, I think it is > the best to clarify why we need to do this. > > > > thanks > > > End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 > *********************************** > > ------------------------------------------------ > Sang-Eon Kim > Senior Researcher > Infra. Lab., KT > 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea > > Voice: +82-2-526-6117 > Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 > E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 17 08:23:28 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdmiT-0000XW-VG; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:23:25 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HdmiR-0000Wv-VH for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:23:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdmiR-0000Wb-Kv for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:23:23 -0400 Received: from smtp.vip.sina.com ([202.108.3.172]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdmiL-00027f-Uv for 16ng@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:23:23 -0400 Received: from DELLWEI (unknown [211.160.21.17]) by smtp.vip.sina.com (SINAMAIL) with ESMTP id D164E44A414 for <16ng@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:23:08 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <001701c780eb$21d3ff80$a507740a@DELLWEI> From: "Wei Gengyu" To: <16ng@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:22:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Subject: [16NG] question about rfc4840 X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1006547274==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1006547274== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============1006547274==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 18 02:28:34 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3ec-0003eP-Aj; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:28:34 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1He3eb-0003eK-AW for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:28:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3ea-0003eC-TS for 16ng@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:28:32 -0400 Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3eY-0004qH-2Q for 16ng@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:28:32 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGO00AD3KJFHY@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.24]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JGO00EJ7KJEJQ@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.32.173]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0JGO007AMKJAW3@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:02 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:25:58 +0800 From: "John.zhao" Subject: RE: [16NG] Re: 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 In-reply-to: <009801c780d4$d9edc950$7505a40a@china.huawei.com> To: 'qinxia' , '???' Message-id: <003d01c78182$6d889e30$ad20790a@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AceAydADVdoy3IV2TIiKBTLRf9HZ8QACaeLAACuKRKA= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f49c97ce49302a02285a2d36a99eef8c Cc: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, bernarda@microsoft.com, 16ng@ietf.org, dthaler@microsoft.com X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Hi,folks See my comments. For read convenience, I keep the discussion only as following and remove the long header from many previous email. Best Rgds, Thanks, > > > -----Original Message----- > > Dear Authors of the RFC 4840, > > > > IEEE 802.16 specifies several convergence sublayer (CS) > > including ATM, IPv4 packet, IPv6 packet, IPv4 over EThernet, > > IPv6 over Ethernet, IPv4 over VLAN, IPv6 over VLAN and more. > > Also, it should be used management plane to identify CS > > because 802.16 MAC frame does not have a CS > identification field. > > > > [zhao] I think IEEE802.16 is ready to provide only one > kind of CS simultaneously to one MN. > > > In the view of implementation, we can understand either IPv4 > or IPv6 as well as both IPv4 and IPv6 based on > IEEE802.16-2004 REG-REQ/RSP message which can refer to > section 11.7.4 on page pp668. > If we used both IPv4 and IPv6 at the REG-REQ/RSP message, BS > should resolve the packet type. > [zhao]As we have discussed many times before in this work group. Even you want to utilize some bit to indicate the IPv4 or IPv6. The 'IP version' field isn't a good choice. Because IEEE only assign them to indicate the IP version used on second management connection. But others is available, maybe. To this point, I think if we come back to discuss about the implementation, then everything is possible, right? > > > Whereas, IP family uses its header to identify for the upper > > layer service. > > For example, Ethernet type at the Ethernet header is used > > 0X0800 and 0X86DD for IPv4, IPv6 respectively. > > The protocol field at the IP header uses for identification > > of the upper layer protocol, in reference at > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers > > > > If the IEEE802.16 systems are implemented for IPv4 packet > > only. It doesn't matter. > > When we try to dual stack, both native IPv4 over IEEE802.16 > > and native IPv6 IEEE802.16, it is more difficult than > > Ethernet based IP due to absence of CS type at the 16 > MAC header. > > > ==> why does MAC header need to identify the CS type of frame? > Even though CS type is indicated on the very MAC > header, the frame is still needed > to be classified with classifier due to QoS support. > The inner information such as IP 5 turple is still > needed sometimes. > > > > According to the section 3.1 of RFC4840, it is > recommended that "Link-layer protocols should enable network > packets (IPv4, IPv6, ARP, etc.) to be demultiplexed in the link layer" > > > > [zhao] The IEEE802.16 provide the Classifier mechanism > to do the distinguishment. > > > RFC4840 rescommends as following in section 3.2 and 3.3 > "Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be > avoided." and "Link-layer classification schemes should not > rely on the contents of higher-layer headers." respectively. > Also, your comments are inappropriate for section 3.1. [qx] yes, I agree that "Upper-layer-specific classification schemes should be avoided." in case of transport over link layer. Moreover, if we mean to meet requirement from QOS or charging by means of classification. Classification is not ever a bad boy. > > > > Even if connection identifier (CID) field of 16 header can be > > used between base station and subscriber station, multiple CS > > should be processed at the BS. > > Also, prefix model IP family over IEEE802.16 such as shared > > prefix and per-MS prefix impacts on network architecture and > > implementation. > > > > > Which is preferred prefix model? > > Are you agree to require dual stack over IEEE 802.16 system > > (may be stupid question, but is is possible IPv6 over IPv4 > > tunnel for IPv6 packet delivery) ? > > What is your preferred CS ? and Why? > > > > [zhao]Do you plan to provide the IPv4 and IPv6 support > simultaneously. > > > Yes, We are seriously considering technical issues to support > IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously. [qx] to be frank, I am confused on this argument, do you mean, address dual stack communication problems within MAC layer? > > > Before we mention about how to do this, I think it is > the best to clarify why we need to do this. > > > > thanks > > > End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 > *********************************** > > ------------------------------------------------ > Sang-Eon Kim > Senior Researcher > Infra. Lab., KT > 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea > > Voice: +82-2-526-6117 > Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 > E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 23 19:34:12 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg82q-0000Md-UB; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:34:08 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg82p-0000MJ-2y for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:34:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg82o-0000MB-MQ for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:34:06 -0400 Received: from web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.207.182]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg82n-0002eY-Ch for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:34:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 79643 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2007 23:34:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=l5BjQIdeup80qRWHbSy+2l/AlBv8AtgwudDh/FP+0YxyyOrYD4CSEv9F1iz7dKqYnTc3ikGSonEs7Rc6lhR8/iAFogruUAApBbqkF3MA873MJzjbglrn+cy7BVZKvy+ihYHY2U4Ugdhj1vuV5M9U0846xg8T56SXGhm1WoMTteo=; X-YMail-OSG: sSOSKQAVM1kxxFJ7POuwtrEGcDjUS2sygHEN4AESKJ3iSkiqCIRiulAenzMmHFmp4Rp6lGuq0A-- Received: from [131.107.0.103] by web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:34:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/478 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT) From: gabriel montenegro To: 16ng@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-73725709-1177371244=:79289" Message-ID: <867717.79289.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b9ff51cb773342ada66c2c7a67688b Subject: [16NG] Fw: comments from Phil Barber (802.16 Netman chair) on IPv6 CS document X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --0-73725709-1177371244=:79289 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2092227626-1177371244=:79289" --0-2092227626-1177371244=:79289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii I don't believe these ever made it to the list. I also don't believe I've seen a response to them. -gabriel ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Phillip Barber To: Basavaraj Patil ; Behcet Sarikaya ; 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Frank Xia ; JinHyeock Choi ; Syam Madanapalli Cc: Rex Buddenberg ; Srinivasa.Reddy ; Ranga RDECOM CERDEC STCD ; Scott Henderson ; "Narvaez, Paolo (Paolo)" ; gabriel montenegro ; Soohong Daniel Park ; Jari Arkko Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42:36 AM Subject: My personal comments to the authors on the Draft Thanks, Phillip Barber Chief Scientist Broadband Wireless Solutions Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. --0-2092227626-1177371244=:79289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii
I don't believe these ever made it to the list. I also don't believe I've seen a response to them.

-gabriel

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Phillip Barber <pbarber@huawei.com>
To: Basavaraj Patil <basavaraj.patil@nokia.com>; Behcet Sarikaya <bsarikaya@huawei.com>; 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Frank Xia <xiayangsong@huawei.com>; JinHyeock Choi <jinchoe@samsung.com>; Syam Madanapalli <smadanapalli@gmail.com>
Cc: Rex Buddenberg <budden@nps.navy.mil>; Srinivasa.Reddy <srinivasa.reddy@carc.co.in>; Ranga RDECOM CERDEC STCD <Ranga.Reddy@us.army.mil>; Scott Henderson <shenderson@rim.com>; "Narvaez, Paolo (Paolo)" <paolo@lucent.com>; gabriel montenegro <gabriel_montenegro_2000@yahoo.com>; Soohong Daniel Park <soohong.park@samsung.com>; Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42:36 AM
Subject:

My personal comments to the authors on the Draft

 

Thanks,
Phillip Barber
Chief Scientist
Broadband Wireless Solutions
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.

 


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Multiple references to the = 802.1Q VLAN \=0DCS. The 802.1Q VLAN CS is defective; is really VLAN tags = on either 802.3 Ethernet or IP. Completely misleading. 802.1Q VLAN CS = section to be depricated in = revision.

)/Type/Annot/Popup 6 0 R/AP<>>>=0Dendobj=0D6 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D7 0 obj<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/ExtGState<>>>=0Dendobj=0D8 0 = obj<>stream H=89=9CT=D1N=DB0=14}=EFO=EC>=C2DB=92=96@=1F;=A8P=A5=15u"=DA=CB=D8=83=9B=B8= =ADGbg=B6=D3=C2=BE~=C7nBS=84=10"=15U=8A=ED=E3s=EE9=F7=9E=DF=DE=C7=B46=83o= =D9=E0<=CB=12=8A)[=0D=C6=E18=A5=08=1F=FF=12_=8D=E92N=C2xDY5=88h=8D=BF,w_=BB= =C1I=A1=D9=CA=06=82=DBU=10=A7r=1D=88z=9B=06j=CB=B5=7F=CBM=10=8DC=FBdO=B3?= =83 = =1E=86=17=17=A3=84=02\r38!"=ABh=B7=11=F9=86=EC=86SS=D7\S=C9=9E=B96$=A4=E5= z=C5r=1E=12eX=ACY=FE=C8-]=DF=930=D4=18^=D0Ji=87=9A}=DD#i&M=AD=B4u=FF'V=96= =ED=89`=C9=DC=E6Z+=ABrU=1A2=0D=AEc=86f=EE=02 = =C8E=BB=D4=03{8=99-=1EN=CFh6=9DN=E9*J=C2!}=9F=DC=9D=CF'w = 0=9F=9C_=DF=D0$=CF=B914=E7v=A3=0A= =1C=98B=81=83{8%&=8B=FD=D1=1E=E2=BD-4:=12=04=D0=C4=05EZ=AD=8A&=F7a~=EF=F8{=A0=AD= wC=D7N\WB=AAR=AD=9F=DF=A7=F3=01=BC=91=E3=D7M=1C=941w=05=D0=08=03=EC7=CD=D2= =0F=C6=A3=C0x=17=8E=F1.zx=0E=D1=15=D2o=03=0A= =ABMS=B6m|h_g]=DB=A9=98=10=AF=F9]=F5=F0.=F0=FB=D6E=13=0D=DE5=AD=F3WXL=9AF= c=80=FB=81=E1=90=DEjS=C7=94=C6=3D=BC=B4=E3V=0A= =F9=F8=99=EA=85=14GGz=D3=83^=8F=D9=8B=E4'=F1=92#>=0Dendobj=0D10 0 obj[11 0 R 12 0 R 13 0 R 14 0 = R]=0Dendobj=0D11 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D12 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D13 0 = obj<

What about OFDMA, SC and = SCa

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MS? Why are you specifying = only for MS?\=0D What about the more generic SS? The =

)/Type/Annot/Popup 28 0 R/AP<>>>=0Dendobj=0D28 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D29 0 obj<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/ExtGState<>>>=0Dendobj=0D30 0 = obj<>stream H=89=8CVMs=E28=10=BD=F3'=B6=8Fd+v00d=D8=1BI=A8Y=AA6S=CE=E0=DDK=C8A=D82h=C7= =B6\=92=80=E1=DFo=B7=FC=81=0C=DE=D9u*=E0=B2=A5=D7=DD=AF=9F^=F3=F0e=1D=C0N= =0F=9E=A2=C1C=14=8D!=80(=1D=CC=FD=F9=0CF=F8go=82=CFsx=0C=C6~0=85(=1F=8C`=87= =FFQL=1F=A7=C10Q,5=9E=E0&=F5=82Y=B1=F3Dy=9Cy=F2=C8=95=BD=8B=B57=9A=FB=E6=87= =B9=8B=FE=1Ex=C1=C4=FF=F4i:=06=0F=83=BC=0C=86=00=B0=0A= =8F3(Y=FC=9D=1B=0D1+`=CB=F1K)=C1=13 =100{=0E=AB=E5r = k=93=C0=E7=11&1=03]=F2X=A4=B4=84 = E=C0=D1=AF=16L=14=86=AB=94=C5=1C=8E=82=C1o=F4f=04=DE=B8=89=15=F8P=C1=85=0D= B=8C=A1=95=01=99=DA=E7=A1M=03=9E=D7 = =D5}=BD=B9Mt\o=A6=14&=F0n=BF>=FE'N=9D=DE=C4=81=08=DE*=8C=E0=ED=BF@=FC=EB2= =A2=06bVC=CC.=10=CC=08Y = =0FqvH=B8=AE=80=F6g`E=02=AF=8BgH=B8a"=D3=FEuq=04=19=CB=02=F9=DE=F1=02=E9=D3= =87m=C6=CE\i`=8A=03=EB$=868>=ED=10=1A=12=19=1Fr^=18=A7=C6=A65=BA=EAl=AAdn= 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45 0 R = 46 0 R 47 0 R 48 0 R 49 0 R 50 0 R]=0Dendobj=0D33 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D34 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D35 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D36 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D37 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D38 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D39 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D40 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D41 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D42 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D43 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D44 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D45 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D46 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D47 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D48 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D49 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D50 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D51 0 obj<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/ExtGState<>>>=0Dendobj=0D52 0 = obj<>stream H=89=A4V=DFs=E26=10~=E7=9F=E8>=92=0E6=B6!=DC=91=B74=A1=BD=CC\Z=AE=B8=9D=E9= =94>=08!=83=1A[=F2=C8"9f=FC=C7w%=FF=C4&$w=15=03=D8k=E9=DBO=BB=DF=AE<=FEe=E5= =C3.=1B=FC=14=0E=C6a=18=80=0Fa4=98=BB=F3=19x=F8=B1=17=FE=C79|=F0=03=D7=9F= B=98=0C<=D8=E17=A4=E6=E7e0=DC*=12i=873=1D9=FEL=EC=1C=9E>=CF=1C=F9=CC=94=BD= =A2=99=E3=CD]=FDU_=85=FF=0E=1C=7F=E2^_O=03p=D0=C9=FD`=08=002=D5\=0A= 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62 0 R 63 0 R 64 0 R 65 0 R 66 0 R 67 0 R = 68 0 R 69 0 R 70 0 R]=0Dendobj=0D55 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D56 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D57 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D58 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D59 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D60 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D61 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D62 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D63 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D64 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D65 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D66 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D67 0 = obj<>>>=0Dendobj=0D68 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D69 0 = obj<

What happened to the = SBC-REQ/RSP?

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The sentence seems to imply = the the con\=0Dcept of the 802.16 MAC layer convention 'CID' somehow may = extend outside of the 802.16 MAC = layer.

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More properly, the MAC CPS = feeds the PH\=0DY via the PHY SAP, then the BS PHY and SS PHY exchange = information in a peer-to-peer PHY level = communication

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So, 802.1D bridging. Need to = make clear\=0D that higher layers don't have be sensitive to/be aware of = the purely 802.16 concept of CIDs. Not explicit that a single = AR may service multiple BS, though each BS will have its own L2 Tunnel = to the AR

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that use the same higher = layer protocol\=0D

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This is the same language as = in 802.16,\=0D but seems misleading in this context. I think the = language should be changed just to indicate that protocol support is = indicated in this exchange.

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Probably needs further = review. 802.16 d\=0Does not have a default value. Probably better to = make this an IP layer constraint

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Only constrains the max MAC = PDU, not th\=0De protocol PDU. MAC PDU constraint likely does not apply. = Only need the protocol PDU size default and = constraint.

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I would like to see more = discussion on \=0Dthe problem matter of multi-protocol confounding = neighbor discovery and spanning tree, and that problem's influence on = the specific remedy provided in this = document.

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Need discussion on method = for doing thi\=0Ds in 802.16 using Multicast Connections also, in = addition to Unicast Connections.

)/Type/Annot/Popup 247 = 0 R/AP<>>>=0Dendobj=0D247 0 obj<>=0Dendobj=0D248 0 obj<>stream =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Acrobat Distiller 7.0 (Windows)=0A= =0A= =0A= PScript5.dll Version 5.2=0A= 2007-03-22T09:14:19-05:00=0A= 2007-03-22T07:27:34-05:00=0A= 2007-03-22T09:14:19-05:00=0A= =0A= =0A= application/pdf=0A= =0A= =0A= draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs-09.txt - = Notepad=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Phillip Barber=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= = uuid:ac9824a7-840b-44d0-a2e7-79a1e3ec60be=0A= = uuid:1429f46e-bb87-42c2-80f0-24efb6aa6daa=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= = =0A= =0A= endstream=0Dendobj=0Dxref 0 1 0000000063 00000 f 109 1 0000089595 00000 n 230 1 0000089661 00000 n 232 1 0000089911 00000 n 246 3 0000090009 00000 n 0000090803 00000 n 0000090914 00000 n trailer <= ]/Prev 116 >> startxref 94629 %%EOF --0-73725709-1177371244=:79289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --0-73725709-1177371244=:79289-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 24 00:10:30 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgCMG-0001pL-Ku; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:10:28 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBx2-0001YV-Pr for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:44:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBx2-0001YN-FI for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:44:24 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBx1-00051i-TH for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:44:24 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l3O3iIWu001367; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:44:22 +0300 Received: from daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.112]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:44:20 +0300 Received: from daebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.113]) by daebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:44:17 -0500 Received: from 10.241.58.53 ([10.241.58.53]) by daebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.113]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:44:17 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:45:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [16NG] Fw: comments from Phil Barber (802.16 Netman chair) on IPv6 CS document From: Basavaraj Patil To: ext gabriel montenegro , <16ng@ietf.org> Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [16NG] Fw: comments from Phil Barber (802.16 Netman chair) on IPv6 CS document Thread-Index: AceGIvFgMBy8rPIWEduh5AARJNUNiA== In-Reply-To: <867717.79289.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2007 03:44:17.0657 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5C13E90:01C78622] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:10:27 -0400 Cc: X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1042728550==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1042728550== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3260213105_5251156" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3260213105_5251156 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Working on a response and the changes in Rev 10. -Raj On 4/23/07 6:34 PM, "ext gabriel montenegro" wrote: > I don't believe these ever made it to the list. I also don't believe I've seen > a response to them. > > -gabriel > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: Phillip Barber > To: Basavaraj Patil ; Behcet Sarikaya > ; 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Frank Xia > ; JinHyeock Choi ; Syam > Madanapalli > Cc: Rex Buddenberg ; Srinivasa.Reddy > ; Ranga RDECOM CERDEC STCD > ; Scott Henderson ; "Narvaez, > Paolo (Paolo)" ; gabriel montenegro > ; Soohong Daniel Park > ; Jari Arkko > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42:36 AM > Subject: > > > My personal comments to the authors on the Draft > > > > Thanks, > Phillip Barber > Chief Scientist > Broadband Wireless Solutions > Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 16NG mailing list > 16NG@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --B_3260213105_5251156 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [16NG] Fw: comments from Phil Barber (802.16 Netman chair) on IP= v6 CS document
Working on a response and the changes in Rev 10.

-Raj


On 4/23/07 6:34 PM, "ext gabriel montenegro" <gabriel_monteneg= ro_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't believe these ever made it to the list. I also = don't believe I've seen a response to them.

-gabriel

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Phillip Barber <pbarber@huawei.com>
To: Basavaraj Patil <basavaraj.patil@nokia.com>; Behcet Sarikaya <= bsarikaya@huawei.com>; 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Frank Xia <xiayangs= ong@huawei.com>; JinHyeock Choi <jinchoe@samsung.com>; Syam Madanap= alli <smadanapalli@gmail.com>
Cc: Rex Buddenberg <budden@nps.navy.mil>; Srinivasa.Reddy <sriniva= sa.reddy@carc.co.in>; Ranga RDECOM CERDEC STCD <Ranga.Reddy@us.army.mi= l>; Scott Henderson <shenderson@rim.com>; "Narvaez, Paolo (Pao= lo)" <paolo@lucent.com>; gabriel montenegro <gabriel_montenegr= o_2000@yahoo.com>; Soohong Daniel Park <soohong.park@samsung.com>; = Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42:36 AM
Subject:

  
My personal comments t= o the authors on the Draft
 
Thanks,
Phillip Barber
Chief Scientist
Broadband Wireless Solutions
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
 


____________________= ___________________________
16NG mailing list
16NG@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng

 --B_3260213105_5251156-- --===============1042728550== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============1042728550==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 27 04:38:32 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLyI-0006KL-5R; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:38:30 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLyG-0006K9-Py for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:38:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLyG-0006Jy-5H for 16ng@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:38:28 -0400 Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLyD-0001Av-Io for 16ng@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:38:27 -0400 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JH500LEHEMTTL@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:37:41 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JH500CQ6EMRAQ@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:37:41 +0800 (CST) Received: from z49950 ([10.121.32.173]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0JH500AZ6EMO89@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for 16ng@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:37:39 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:37:36 +0800 From: "John.zhao" To: 16ng@ietf.org Message-id: <00e801c788a7$4ef4a3c0$ad20790a@china.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AceIp06o5AOCxpnzS7CWQg1itR40kQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 75ffc14afb41eeead069d201c6c1d81f Cc: Subject: [16NG] About idle mode in IPCS X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.zhao@huawei.com List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0607497563==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0607497563== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yt5GvXox4d8nESUgLMu+3w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_yt5GvXox4d8nESUgLMu+3w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi,folks My two cents. Based on the discussion in Prague. I have ask about the idle more requirement on AR and MN above IPCS. How about any other also think this is a problem need to be tracked in this wg? If have , let me know ASAP. I think the time we can clarify about it is not very enough if that is applicable. Best Rgds, Thanks, John.zhao --Boundary_(ID_yt5GvXox4d8nESUgLMu+3w) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi,folks

 

         My two cents.

         Based on the discussion in Prague. I have ask about the idle more requirement on AR and MN above IPCS. How about any other also think this is a problem need to be tracked in this wg? If have , let me know ASAP. I think the time we can clarify about it is not very enough if that is applicable.

 

         Best Rgds,

Thanks,

 

John.zhao

--Boundary_(ID_yt5GvXox4d8nESUgLMu+3w)-- --===============0607497563== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============0607497563==-- From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 27 11:31:11 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhSPf-0005AU-5N; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:31:11 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhSPc-00059Q-M9 for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:31:08 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhSPc-00059D-AC; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:31:08 -0400 Received: from ns3.neustar.com ([156.154.24.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhSPY-0007j4-VQ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:31:08 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC576175D0; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:30:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhSP4-00025w-LX; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:30:34 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:30:34 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b Cc: Internet Architecture Board , 16ng mailing list <16ng@ietf.org>, 16ng chair <16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, RFC Editor Subject: [16NG] Document Action: 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for 802.16 based Networks' to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for 802.16 based Networks ' as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Jari Arkko and Mark Townsley. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-link-model-analysis-03.txt Technical Summary This document provides different IPv6 link models that are suitable for 802.16 based networks and provides analysis of various considerations for each link model and the applicability of each link model under different deployment scenarios. Working Group Summary This document is result of a Design Team that was formed to analyze the IPv6 link models for 802.16 based networks. Based on the recommendations of the design team and this document, the working group has chosen the unique-prefix-per- link/mn model over the previously assumed shared prefix model. The new model is in use in the IPv6 over 802.16 IPCS document (draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs), and has also been adopted by the Wimax Forum. Protocol Quality Jari Arkko has revied this document for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor Please insert "IEEE" in front of references to 802.16 or other IEEE specification numbers throughout the document, including the title. Please expand "MS" to "MS (Mobile Station)" on first occurence in Section 1. Similarly, expand "BS" to "BS (Base Station)". And later in the document, "CS" to "CS (Convergence Sublayer)". Please expand "MLD" to "MLD (Multicast Listener Discovery)" in Section 3.1.3. Please add the following informative reference: [WiMAXArch] "WiMAX End-to-End Network Systems Architecture http://www.wimaxforum.org/technology/documents", August 2006. and refer to that from Section 1, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence. In Section 3.1, change "on per MS basis" to "on a per MS basis". Also in Section 3.1, paragraph 1: change "does not any multicast" to "does not provide any multicast". And change "illustrates high" to "illustrate a". Finally, change "one more" to "one or more". Change the section titles (3 instances) that say "Reuse of Existing Standards" to "Reuse of Existing Specifications". Replace the text in the Security Considerations section with the following: This document provides the analysis of various IPv6 link models for IEEE 802.16 based networks and this document as such does not introduce any new security threats. No matter what the link model is, the networks employ the same link-layer security mechanisms defined in [5]. However, the chosen link model affects the scope of link local communication, and this may have security implications for protocols that are designed to work within the link scope. This is the concern for shared link model compared other models wherein private resources e.g. personal printer cannot be put onto a public WiMAX network. This may restrict the usage of shared prefix model to enterprise environments. The Neighbor Discovery related security issues are document in [RFC 2461] [RFC 2462] and these are applicable for all the models described in this documents. The model specific security considerations are documented in their respective protocol specifications. Place a new top-level section between Sections 5 and 6: X. Effect on Routing The model used for in a 802.16 network may have a significant impact on how routing protocols are run over such a network. The deployment model presented in this document discusses the least impacting model on routing as connectivity on the provider edge is intentionally limited to point to point connectivity from one BS to any one of multiple MSs. Any other deployment model may cause a significant impact on routing protocols, however, but they are outside the scope of this document. _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng From 16ng-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 30 10:14:09 2007 Return-path: <16ng-bounces@ietf.org> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWdk-00040V-JY; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:14:08 -0400 Received: from 16ng by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWdj-0003vC-Cs for 16ng-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:14:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWdj-0003uH-0f for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:14:07 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.251]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWdh-0004tX-9J for 16ng@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:14:06 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so1397551and for <16ng@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=XGUsWj8iRf/cHd3Tw/XqRpD/tKBAHIt26aleHlY5yV+hvzh9TNamjAnxJybNx1WmlrpzhWkaq6oOeHSRLp9fQQEL8gbMSwokktiRdIMq+cKvZ5MBcqaN739qIBqbaMAwRTFvv4+l+gGQn6ShPugh9AgXpG9IikHQMWb9bIbqydI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=dlWDoVTI3Xx2KLnvnRevI4E3uBcTNHk16H2T4D8XK+wM29nyyZiiZaf4nb6QWLQuEmhCv9O5KyttpP/QXT/3wpF97WmJwJwAwY1/8woDgU29/xzvG+wrYDPtk0XbfVS9xZaUT29/Z5//tG0DwET5o5CiE4jfuvhHWr6OkCCxGLU= Received: by 10.100.13.12 with SMTP id 12mr3998174anm.1177942440037; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.164.1 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d5d1f6f0704300713t16b7171es2f7426b88c786ff3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:13:59 +0900 From: "=?EUC-KR?B?sei7877w?=" To: 16ng@ietf.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1f9797ba297220533cb8c3f4bc709a8 Cc: iab@iab.org, 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [16NG] Re: 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 22 X-BeenThere: 16ng@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: 16ng working group discussion list <16ng.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2050659673==" Errors-To: 16ng-bounces@ietf.org --===============2050659673== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_235758_26719100.1177942439984" ------=_Part_235758_26719100.1177942439984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, The one of the important thing in IEEE802.16 is missed. RFC 2462 specifies autoconfiguration in wired-based IPv6 Internet. It did not specify configuration time. To use RFC 2462 specfication in IEEE802.16e network, it is required faster procedure than current DAD procedure. Has anyone can tell the DAD processing time? If the IEEE 802.16 network will consume more than one seconds to handover at IP layer, Does it practical? So, I would like to propose to add some technical resolution for section 3.1.3 and 3.3.3. regards, 2007/4/28, 16ng-request@ietf.org <16ng-request@ietf.org>: > > Send 16NG mailing list submissions to > 16ng@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 16ng-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 16ng-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 16NG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Document Action: 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for 802.16 > based Networks' to Informational RFC (The IESG) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:30:34 -0400 > From: The IESG > Subject: [16NG] Document Action: 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for > 802.16 based Networks' to Informational RFC > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: Internet Architecture Board , 16ng mailing list > <16ng@ietf.org>, 16ng chair <16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, RFC > Editor > > Message-ID: > > The IESG has approved the following document: > > - 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for 802.16 based Networks ' > as an Informational > RFC > > This document is the product of the IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks Working > Group. > > The IESG contact persons are Jari Arkko and Mark Townsley. > > A URL of this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-link-model-analysis-03.txt > > Technical Summary > > This document provides different IPv6 link models that are suitable > for 802.16 based networks and provides analysis of various > considerations for each link model and the applicability of each link > model under different deployment scenarios. > > Working Group Summary > > This document is result of a Design Team that was formed > to analyze the IPv6 link models for 802.16 based networks. > Based on the recommendations of the design team and this > document, the working group has chosen the unique-prefix-per- > link/mn model over the previously assumed shared prefix > model. The new model is in use in the IPv6 over 802.16 IPCS > document (draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs), and has also > been adopted by the Wimax Forum. > > Protocol Quality > > Jari Arkko has revied this document for the IESG. > > Note to RFC Editor > > Please insert "IEEE" in front of references to 802.16 > or other IEEE specification numbers throughout the > document, including the title. > > Please expand "MS" to "MS (Mobile Station)" on first > occurence in Section 1. Similarly, expand "BS" to > "BS (Base Station)". And later in the document, > "CS" to "CS (Convergence Sublayer)". > > Please expand "MLD" to "MLD (Multicast Listener > Discovery)" in Section 3.1.3. > > Please add the following informative reference: > > [WiMAXArch] > "WiMAX End-to-End Network Systems Architecture > http://www.wimaxforum.org/technology/documents", > August 2006. > > and refer to that from Section 1, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence. > > In Section 3.1, change "on per MS basis" to "on a per MS basis". > > Also in Section 3.1, paragraph 1: change "does not any multicast" > to "does not provide any multicast". And change "illustrates high" > to "illustrate a". Finally, change "one more" to "one or more". > > Change the section titles (3 instances) that say "Reuse of > Existing Standards" to "Reuse of Existing Specifications". > > Replace the text in the Security Considerations section > with the following: > > This document provides the analysis of various IPv6 link models for > IEEE 802.16 based networks and this document as such does not > introduce any new security threats. No matter what the link model > is, the networks employ the same link-layer security mechanisms > defined in [5]. However, the chosen link model affects the scope > of link local communication, and this may have security implications > for protocols that are designed to work within the link scope. This > is the concern for shared link model compared other models wherein > private resources e.g. personal printer cannot be put onto a public > WiMAX network. This may restrict the usage of shared prefix model > to enterprise environments. > > The Neighbor Discovery related security issues are document in [RFC > > 2461] [RFC 2462] and these are applicable for all the models > described in this documents. The model specific security > considerations are documented in their respective protocol > specifications. > > Place a new top-level section between Sections 5 and 6: > > X. Effect on Routing > > The model used for in a 802.16 network may have a significant > impact on how routing protocols are run over such a network. > The deployment model presented in this document discusses the > least impacting model on routing as connectivity on the provider > edge is intentionally limited to point to point connectivity > from one BS to any one of multiple MSs. Any other deployment > model may cause a significant impact on routing protocols, > however, but they are outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > 16NG mailing list > 16NG@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng > > > End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 22 > *********************************** > -- ------------------------------------------------ Sang-Eon Kim Senior Researcher Infra. Lab., KT 139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea Voice: +82-2-526-6117 Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084 E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_235758_26719100.1177942439984 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hi all,
 
The one of the important thing in IEEE802.16 is missed.
RFC 2462 specifies autoconfiguration in wired-based IPv6 Internet. It did not specify configuration time.
To use RFC 2462 specfication in IEEE802.16e network, it is required faster procedure than current DAD procedure.
Has anyone can tell the DAD processing time?
 
If the IEEE 802.16 network will consume more than one seconds to handover at IP layer, Does it practical?
 
So, I would like to propose to add some technical resolution for section 3.1.3 and 3.3.3.
 
regards,

 
2007/4/28, 16ng-request@ietf.org <16ng-request@ietf.org>:
Send 16NG mailing list submissions to
       16ng@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       16ng-request@ietf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
       16ng-owner@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of 16NG digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1.  Document Action: 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for  802.16
     based Networks' to Informational RFC  (The IESG)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:30:34 -0400
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org >
Subject: [16NG] Document Action: 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for
       802.16 based Networks' to Informational RFC
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org >
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,  16ng mailing list
       <16ng@ietf.org>, 16ng chair < 16ng-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,       RFC Editor
       <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Message-ID: < E1HhSP4-00025w-LX@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>

The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Analysis of IPv6 Link Models for 802.16 based Networks '
  <draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-link-model-analysis-03.txt > as an Informational RFC

This document is the product of the IP over IEEE 802.16 Networks Working
Group.

The IESG contact persons are Jari Arkko and Mark Townsley.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-link-model-analysis-03.txt

Technical Summary

This document provides different IPv6 link models that are suitable
for 802.16 based networks and provides analysis of various
considerations for each link model and the applicability of each link
model under different deployment scenarios.

Working Group Summary

This document is result of a Design Team that was formed
to analyze the IPv6 link models for 802.16 based networks.
Based on the recommendations of the design team and this
document, the working group has chosen the unique-prefix-per-
link/mn model over the previously assumed shared prefix
model. The new model is in use in the IPv6 over 802.16 IPCS
document (draft-ietf-16ng-ipv6-over-ipv6cs), and has also
been adopted by the Wimax Forum.

Protocol Quality

Jari Arkko has revied this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Please insert "IEEE" in front of references to 802.16
or other IEEE specification numbers throughout the
document, including the title.

Please expand "MS" to "MS (Mobile Station)" on first
occurence in Section 1. Similarly, expand "BS" to
"BS (Base Station)". And later in the document,
"CS" to "CS (Convergence Sublayer)".

Please expand "MLD" to "MLD (Multicast Listener
Discovery)" in Section 3.1.3.

Please add the following informative reference:

  [WiMAXArch]
             "WiMAX End-to-End Network Systems Architecture
             http://www.wimaxforum.org/technology/documents",
             August 2006.

and refer to that from Section 1, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence.

In Section 3.1, change "on per MS basis" to "on a per MS basis".

Also in Section 3.1, paragraph 1: change "does not any multicast"
to "does not provide any multicast". And change "illustrates high"
to "illustrate a". Finally, change "one more" to "one or more".

Change the section titles (3 instances) that say "Reuse of
Existing Standards" to "Reuse of Existing Specifications".

Replace the text in the Security Considerations section
with the following:

   This document provides the analysis of various IPv6 link models for
   IEEE 802.16 based networks and this document as such does not
   introduce any new security threats. No matter what the link model
   is, the networks employ the same link-layer security mechanisms
   defined in [5]. However, the chosen link model affects the scope
   of link local communication, and this may have security implications
   for protocols that are designed to work within the link scope. This
   is the concern for shared link model compared other models wherein
   private resources e.g. personal printer cannot be put onto a public
   WiMAX network. This may restrict the usage of shared prefix model
   to enterprise environments.

   The Neighbor Discovery related security issues are document in [RFC

   2461] [RFC 2462] and these are applicable for all the models
   described in this documents. The model specific security
   considerations are documented in their respective protocol
   specifications.

Place a new top-level section between Sections 5 and 6:

   X. Effect on Routing

   The model used for in a 802.16 network may have a significant
   impact on how routing protocols are run over such a network.
   The deployment model presented in this document discusses the
   least impacting model on routing as connectivity on the provider
   edge is intentionally limited to point to point connectivity
   from one BS to any one of multiple MSs. Any other deployment
   model may cause a significant impact on routing protocols,
   however, but they are outside the scope of this document.





------------------------------

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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng


End of 16NG Digest, Vol 5, Issue 22
***********************************



--
------------------------------------------------
Sang-Eon Kim
Senior Researcher
Infra. Lab., KT
139-791, Woomyeon-dong, Seocho-gu, Seoul, Korea

Voice: +82-2-526-6117
Mobile: +82-10-3073-4084
E-mail: Kim.SangEon@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------ ------=_Part_235758_26719100.1177942439984-- --===============2050659673== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 16NG mailing list 16NG@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/16ng --===============2050659673==--