From nobody Mon Mar 2 20:42:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A541A19FE for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Mar 2015 20:42:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id adRjwqsPQOEw for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Mar 2015 20:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x231.google.com (mail-ig0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AD031A19FA for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Mar 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by igkb16 with SMTP id b16so23573145igk.1 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:42:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=6zSPVFH8LfJyifT5Hd5vMFh0RWhxNl46zD0F/yy9X/8=; b=TMO44TqHwtlZPOa8YtOjLtFQNAIamjbzVmdKh+lJfeqxUQ48Cyd31KTOUNJJ6A3v3s AM7XZpw2qB4bamHLqAIdFG0dFpxqovoRck98sS5FUsWkGeUCm87uWFJ4oRwKlNvyKSB9 j+moqyqe8r37pI1DmDwMtzfgxj30CvVfhy6lUCXjOnlz7f4BVJZM7bPRa1zuEX0PPQyc 6kfAKEHRtD0Bbd6i9EbtO0Af1R4KebWy5cbcmpuj3mjV9Yd8TUFIYtpsHZ5mGdk8Vl4H c7gV/Cw9+piu6TANhwHTQlN3tyl34Ks8k0sqBwpxuznVeEstLz+jATaLo6t7XyvdLQzH JW+Q== X-Received: by 10.42.195.205 with SMTP id ed13mr34808666icb.58.1425357756747; Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:42:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w9sm8221580igl.0.2015.03.02.20.42.35 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:42:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 23:42:24 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080007070504000807030301" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 04:42:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080007070504000807030301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST. Suggested agenda: 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} 2) packet sizes & time latency 3) AOB The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. Rene == The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows: Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) > 3) time latency aspects (continuation) > 4) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, > 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 > From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. > > As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last > week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas > Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) > 3) AOB > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >> >> I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more >> feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. >> >> I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the >> join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow >> around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) time latency aspects >> 3) AOB >> >> On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of >>> January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >>> >>> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >>> {note taker: Rene Struik} >>> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >>> not on the call} >>> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >>> collatoral} >>> >>> 1. Attendance: >>> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >>> >>> 2. Agenda >>> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> 3. Minutes >>> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >>> January 22, 2015) were approved. >>> >>> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >>> "varia" discussion really} >>> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview >>> text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal >>> Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - >>> Security Considerations) and would issue >>> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >>> >>> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >>> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >>> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it >>> would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that >>> could serve as baseline. >>> >>> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >>> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >>> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >>> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS >>> commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering >>> historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that >>> according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would >>> only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those >>> people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. >>> Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to >>> interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those >>> criteria (as previously suggested). >>> >>> 5. AOB >>> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >>> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call will >>> take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >>> >>> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi >>> Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >>> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like >>> to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the >>> now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >>> >>> [call ended @9.23am EST] >>> >>> >>> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a >>>> short call. >>>> >>>> Suggested agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>> 3) AOB >>>> >>>> The dial-in info is below. >>>> >>>> Best regards, Rene >>>> >>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>> Audio connection: >>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>> >>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting link: >>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>> >>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>>> bottom of email. >>>>> >>>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, >>>>> 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on >>>>> time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>>> >>>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>>> 5) AOB >>>>> >>>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>>> >>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will >>>>>> otherwise remain the same) >>>>>> >>>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I >>>>>>>> hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for >>>>>>>> the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm >>>>>>>> EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January >>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes >>>>>>>> into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. >>>>>>>> RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target >>>>>>>> to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next >>>>>>>> week (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do >>>>>>>>> respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan >>>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, >>>>>>>>> Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: >>>>>>>>> input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good >>>>>>>>> to have some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, >>>>>>>>>> Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior >>>>>>>>>> to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may >>>>>>>>>> have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last >>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared >>>>>>>>>> some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, >>>>>>>>>> we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join >>>>>>>>>> protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared >>>>>>>>>> material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic >>>>>>>>>> discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into >>>>>>>>>> architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related >>>>>>>>>> aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related >>>>>>>>>> join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, >>>>>>>>>> 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) >>>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide >>>>>>>>>> deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and >>>>>>>>>> 2), to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------080007070504000807030301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) packet sizes & time latency
3) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST



On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------080007070504000807030301-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 08:36:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170471ABD35; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K163m-MPMomP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 08:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3DA51ABC74; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 08:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.131.140] ([80.92.121.102]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M54fe-1XZ6vX3iog-00zDbI; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:36:18 +0100 Message-ID: <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:36:15 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter , sarikaya@ieee.org References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> OpenPGP: id=4D776BC9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VWbSTnxSw30HJdhWAVDPbRoVObgChRHkh" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:LRh17iwgsHV0eepGyT5UgHbtU1yv3Z6bm+eF0ChQXRnhitb7HXQ B0ajzcoyGaegF05OkjJFx8eqnlNAClMXImka6qzrPRAPyUPkDAoBJBNjuT5y9W8YDOxjxYB xz7mbR7dBetxRRXAigY3nGOKvkam7pM3UWKfgpO/jHCTFj0YjkEcVL72fsp3bdP9/RlhkiP jhj/f+itCWgqz4D9ObCmA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] Thread [Comments needed for Security Bootstrapping of IEEE 802.15.4 based Internet of Things] X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:36:35 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --VWbSTnxSw30HJdhWAVDPbRoVObgChRHkh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members since the specification is still work in progress. I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public. Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. Ciao Hannes On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >=20 > ... >>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>> >>> Here is an intro document: >>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >=20 > Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad hoc= > membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR > policy. >=20 >> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >> with home environments. >> >> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >=20 > So far. The boundary between this and larger building services > networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >=20 > In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) > be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >=20 > Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security > enrollment? >=20 > Brian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >=20 --VWbSTnxSw30HJdhWAVDPbRoVObgChRHkh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJU9eL/AAoJEGhJURNOOiAtfFMH/RqiDU7G4ZNPZ/DWYd3zDuS8 IpESok4AXPjTCWyqVUT28bvSpY/ac0hNF8HEm9XVf7HTB6v8omj99Vbrq8xQYlVb hc728crXBRMlWCPbJVT7jkELr8u0GqgVGtnNsA66FBsy82b4n6q0Xy69yv6WRd0J dzxbS6yAQDO11mkzhcZwpnMhUY+Wt/gX2jB3Nrn22mkX/hJoPsg7fel2BZ8kC0Dm R+dA7K9tVSS1q7OfoqHE3GQsihSq+pY1eOTTFrIZC0hxbDoXGZIMVtVbW4DnfAN8 yvR1xngnRQ87WrW3yl8KlO88UrMcNszMJOo1X7/Zbzs4ZSOvoHJU835J+w0/aNY= =uyxv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VWbSTnxSw30HJdhWAVDPbRoVObgChRHkh-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 11:03:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DB01AC3A2; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:22:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kJp-6nSe8gjZ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-x22a.google.com (mail-qg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 895431AC39F; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id z60so13214832qgd.1; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=sksr5EzFf8346o8IUja5bBUmlACYohsLZin0xwIpp68=; b=XMmV16CpMmKicnj5hJ6/idVaiDLDIAz+ZOuXtjVpXXG5PP3s7XWs0GmRsLfH4fW4qc EFz9po1eQocvGxVp2oufpq3azn4yrj0Y10f2toWEHvqA4BZ+bBvoK2+eDjAzuR6g4PIn S+IzW+D1kCI7qkmvqssBCePwQThfzfncriQRoKuGy9YW94PiYayX+o8RRP5QxKiYXB7N s1oMkiV7UEJ4Ltg65q4N6YSZBen9eebkzY4FOfO665SBC3PwBRAdwYkpUJD7A6P8VOMW OhixLQVfL88MSmuAeKUlXcsmVkqtyPgjgq2pBs8o+oEqQU05GyJqR4mgIyMCdD7iWAwl Q1JA== X-Received: by 10.140.232.135 with SMTP id d129mr6940534qhc.90.1425403349727; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:c0c4:1006::17c? ([2001:420:c0c4:1006::17c]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i51sm757016qgf.19.2015.03.03.09.22.27 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:22:25 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8B0B30B7-D6E8-4ECE-991B-AF1AC9087A45@gmail.com> References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> To: Hannes Tschofenig , Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:03:01 -0800 Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , Robert Cragie , sarikaya@ieee.org, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [6lo] [Anima] Thread [Comments needed for Security Bootstrapping of IEEE 802.15.4 based Internet of Things] X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:22:32 -0000 Brian, Hannes ... > On Mar 3, 2015, at 11:36 AM 3/3/15, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members > since the specification is still work in progress. >=20 > I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider = public. >=20 > Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 >=20 > On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>=20 >> ... >>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>=20 >>>> Here is an intro document: >>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >>=20 >> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad = hoc >> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >> policy. >>=20 >>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>> with home environments. >>>=20 >>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>=20 >> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>=20 >> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? I've opened a discussion within the IAB Liaison Oversight program = regarding establishment of a liaison relationship with Thread. - Ralph >>=20 >> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >> enrollment? >>=20 >> Brian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 6lo mailing list > 6lo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lo From nobody Tue Mar 3 11:34:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7652D1A88BC; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:34:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S5B0iSbxFtCK; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x232.google.com (mail-pd0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFA981A1BAC; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by pdbfl12 with SMTP id fl12so19631706pdb.5; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:34:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vpGAIREio1DPxlIUle2nu30xU33j5GAbJGaxC2f09/k=; b=oXawI2icKNXyCsmdHR5bSDzKQPvZc1Y/KHHEk4IhVLWoAoeqj7HQzSLCXgZMvM2Vy4 8lme4Ih0QEPLl18UCGCmONemliFQqGqIsqI4CiJ5vCL6zeHVMxSTkEz17id8DTSTnm6t AdZTffBBSsEadKUPeCeaeASqlPyDm7Mbp0yu1NiK8q/P1yWNzEJ453oV1VLP6v0SINiW Kn4iBHg4dvtIwnOqk5T+UBdYX2tlDW41f5q6IxS6ytnF9wQxwhWa9q73jyquMG4zi70e mHJ8ygh3s6TMjl64wC/6V6dTMLoMU8h0xK6c8M7vtJB2soAo4KHN2+eyclm9BupfU2tp wWUQ== X-Received: by 10.66.221.227 with SMTP id qh3mr631438pac.1.1425411294032; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:4f85:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:4f85:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vf6sm1790073pbc.18.2015.03.03.11.34.48 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:34:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:34:42 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig , sarikaya@ieee.org References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] Thread [Comments needed for Security Bootstrapping of IEEE 802.15.4 based Internet of Things] X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:34:56 -0000 On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members > since the specification is still work in progress. > > I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public. > > Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so that it can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed standards development produces bad standards. Brian > Ciao > Hannes > > > On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> ... >>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>> >>>> Here is an intro document: >>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >> >> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad hoc >> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >> policy. >> >>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>> with home environments. >>> >>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >> >> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >> >> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >> >> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >> enrollment? >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> > From nobody Tue Mar 3 12:12:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390231A88E0 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_39=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PxIIbb2FDZhw for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x230.google.com (mail-ig0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34CD21A88A1 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by igal13 with SMTP id l13so31363222iga.0 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:12:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=OGT/R6pYTwnuwFLZoBA6OCykbJ7Jq3lzH3+0DIARtg0=; b=sUugtKK4iPgxPzhVbbq69kdPR6BvhhQudrPT3iMBGBzygPtbmM/ZfX0z6XvOr2Bn7Y lvBU/2pAPeR6hU7ghWuke5tVrZ2m6POpV3PqLPencf3vrUa3q4/Rs/rNXBZjk2O0MF3G cM3UDdyyoLphY6iZDszXGU58V8hNqMFscYHCjSh8v2lGlwOoYlx0bywp/pbOhGYiHXtI CDzEvbMEHCpMS2UPZ8l4dUlMR666bvz3UiqpkYGAy8k7dVeiRIP29y01f3QZmAcI3SDb iIjTfcRX4fY7KexCfMsNxkJyZqyHoR54RzwMVc/Oe23bO2WmhctbukSPCyX+xT1Yi6wa +Zig== X-Received: by 10.43.52.197 with SMTP id vn5mr3807904icb.64.1425413556403; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f142sm1560227ioe.3.2015.03.03.12.12.29 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:12:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F615A1.8040800@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 15:12:17 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54B5BA30.9020200@gmail.com> <54BD58F5.1040500@gmail.com> <54BDF1EF.1020300@gmail.com> <54BECA04.2060409@gmail.com> <54BECEA8.5060908@gmail.com> <54BFC61B.50004@gmail.com> <54C6763B.2070204@gmail.com> <54C8FD34.5040307@gmail.com> <54D98E01.4090103@gmail.com> <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050303040501080400040100" Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] (minutes 6tisch security call Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 20:12:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050303040501080400040100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 17, 2015, 9-10am EST. Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 17, 2015, 9-10am EST {note taker: Rene Struik} {discussion material (referenced in minutes): presentation, titled "latency_tsch_dedicated_cells", posted on the 6tisch bitbucket list} 1. Attendance: Giuseppe Piro, Thomas Watteyne, Malisa Vucinic, Rene Struik 2. Agenda The suggested updated agenda was approved, with the amendment that Malisa Vucinic, rather than Thomas Watteyne, would present on time latency aspects (agenda item #2 below) Suggested agenda, after amendment: 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} 2) time latency aspects (Malisa Vucinic) 3) AOB 3. Minutes The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Tue February 10, 2015) still have to be approved. 4. Time latency aspects MV gave a presentation on time latency aspects of TSCH, which focused on average time delays in the event of a random TSCH schedule with one dedicated cell per slotframe, respectively C cells per slotframe. For slotframes consisting of L timeslots and C random slots per slotframe, the avg frame delay amounts to roughly L/(C+1) timeslots, assuming ideal circumstances (no packet loss, no queueing, etc.). For slotframes with L=101 timeslots of 10ms and C=1 dedicated scheduled cell, this amounts to an avg single hop delay of roughly half a second. As special example, he discussed time latencies to be expected with DTLS with pre-shared keys (11 MAC frames), both in the single-hop scenario (latency ~ 8 seconds) and in the scenario where entities would be 5 hops away (~40 seconds). Finally, he discussed complications in modeling shared, rather than dedicated cells. RS remarked that in tree-like routing protocols, such as RPL, nodes closer to the DODAG root would need to get more dedicated cells per slotframe, since with "pure" routing in a balanced tree one would expect half of the traffic to pass via the root. He also noted that the DTLS example focused on the device authentication and authorization steps of the join protocol and did not include the configuration step (which might very well dominate overall join traffic); thus, total join protocol communication time latency might very well be significantly higher than what arises from the DTLS protocol itself. ThW suggested that with a join protocol using public-key based techniques communication latencies might be higher than with the pre-shared keying material scenario, e.g., due to use of certificates -- as also alluded to at the end of Slide 5 of the presentation. A brief discussion ensued. RS noted that the ephemeral public keys exchanged between entities (e.g., joining node JN and JCE) were expected to fit within a single 802.15.4 frame, as these would be well below 90 bytes. As a general note, the presentation on expected TSCH time latencies made it clear that (a) caching of JCE certificates and configuration information on the join assistant (JA) would greatly help in reducing the total time latency of the join protocol, due to reduction of long-haul traffic between joining node and JCE that would otherwise be required. (b) time delays due to cryptographic computations would be less important, relative to communication time delays caused by TSCH. (c) distributed implementation of the JCE and PCE functionality would greatly help in reducing the total time latency of the join protocol, due to route diversity and expected reduction of the length of the communication path between joining node and network-resident nodes involved with the join protocol, such as JCE/PCE. RS volunteered to validate time latency formulas presented and try and come up with a simple proof/argument for these (note: posted later the same day, see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00430.html) 5. AOB No other business. O asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline. TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested). 5. AOB RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... [call ended @9.23am EST]Suggested agenda: On 2/17/2015 8:25 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. > > As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last > week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas > Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) > 3) AOB > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >> >> I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more >> feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. >> >> I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the >> join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow >> around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) time latency aspects >> 3) AOB >> >> On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of >>> January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >>> >>> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >>> {note taker: Rene Struik} >>> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >>> not on the call} >>> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >>> collatoral} >>> >>> 1. Attendance: >>> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >>> >>> 2. Agenda >>> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> 3. Minutes >>> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >>> January 22, 2015) were approved. >>> >>> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >>> "varia" discussion really} >>> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview >>> text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal >>> Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - >>> Security Considerations) and would issue >>> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >>> >>> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >>> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >>> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it >>> would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that >>> could serve as baseline. >>> >>> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >>> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >>> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >>> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS >>> commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering >>> historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that >>> according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would >>> only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those >>> people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. >>> Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to >>> interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those >>> criteria (as previously suggested). >>> >>> 5. AOB >>> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >>> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call will >>> take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >>> >>> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi >>> Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >>> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like >>> to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the >>> now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >>> >>> [call ended @9.23am EST] >>> >>> >>> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a >>>> short call. >>>> >>>> Suggested agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>> 3) AOB >>>> >>>> The dial-in info is below. >>>> >>>> Best regards, Rene >>>> >>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>> Audio connection: >>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>> >>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting link: >>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>> >>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>>> bottom of email. >>>>> >>>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, >>>>> 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on >>>>> time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>>> >>>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>>> 5) AOB >>>>> >>>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>>> >>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will >>>>>> otherwise remain the same) >>>>>> >>>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I >>>>>>>> hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for >>>>>>>> the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm >>>>>>>> EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January >>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes >>>>>>>> into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. >>>>>>>> RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target >>>>>>>> to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next >>>>>>>> week (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do >>>>>>>>> respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan >>>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, >>>>>>>>> Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: >>>>>>>>> input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good >>>>>>>>> to have some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, >>>>>>>>>> Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior >>>>>>>>>> to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may >>>>>>>>>> have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last >>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared >>>>>>>>>> some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, >>>>>>>>>> we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join >>>>>>>>>> protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared >>>>>>>>>> material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic >>>>>>>>>> discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into >>>>>>>>>> architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related >>>>>>>>>> aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related >>>>>>>>>> join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, >>>>>>>>>> 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) >>>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide >>>>>>>>>> deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and >>>>>>>>>> 2), to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------050303040501080400040100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 17, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 17, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): presentation, titled "latency_tsch_dedicated_cells", posted on the 6tisch bitbucket list}

1. Attendance:
Giuseppe Piro, Thomas Watteyne, Malisa Vucinic, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved, with the amendment that Malisa Vucinic, rather than Thomas Watteyne, would present on time latency aspects (agenda item #2 below)
Suggested agenda, after amendment:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Malisa Vucinic)
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Tue February 10, 2015) still have to be approved.

4. Time latency aspects
MV gave a presentation on time latency aspects of TSCH, which focused on average time delays in the event of a random TSCH schedule with one dedicated cell per slotframe, respectively C cells per slotframe. For slotframes consisting of L timeslots and C random slots per slotframe, the avg frame delay amounts to roughly L/(C+1) timeslots, assuming ideal circumstances (no packet loss, no queueing, etc.).  For slotframes with L=101 timeslots of 10ms and C=1 dedicated scheduled cell, this amounts to an avg single hop delay of roughly half a second. As special example, he discussed time latencies to be expected with DTLS with pre-shared keys (11 MAC frames), both in the single-hop scenario (latency ~ 8 seconds) and in the scenario where entities would be 5 hops away (~40 seconds).  Finally, he discussed complications in modeling shared, rather than dedicated cells.

RS remarked that in tree-like routing protocols, such as RPL, nodes closer to the DODAG root would need to get more dedicated cells per slotframe, since with "pure" routing in a balanced tree one would expect half of the traffic to pass via the root. He also noted that the DTLS example focused on the device authentication and authorization steps of the join protocol and did not include the configuration step (which might very well dominate overall join traffic); thus, total join protocol communication time latency might very well be significantly higher than what arises from the DTLS protocol itself.

ThW suggested that with a join protocol using public-key based techniques communication latencies might be higher than with the pre-shared keying material scenario, e.g., due to use of certificates -- as also alluded to at the end of Slide 5 of the presentation. A brief discussion ensued. RS noted that the ephemeral public keys exchanged between entities (e.g., joining node JN and JCE) were expected to fit within a single 802.15.4 frame, as these would be well below 90 bytes.

As a general note, the presentation on expected TSCH time latencies made it clear that
(a) caching of JCE certificates and configuration information on the join assistant (JA) would greatly help in reducing the total time latency of the join protocol, due to reduction of long-haul traffic between joining node and JCE that would otherwise be required.
(b) time delays due to cryptographic computations would be less important, relative to communication time delays caused by TSCH.
(c) distributed implementation of the JCE and PCE functionality would greatly help in reducing the total time latency of the join protocol, due to route diversity and expected reduction of the length of the communication path between joining node and network-resident nodes involved with the join protocol, such as JCE/PCE.

RS volunteered to validate time latency formulas presented and try and come up with a simple proof/argument for these (note: posted later the same day, see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00430.html)
 
5. AOB
No other business.


  

O asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]Suggested agenda:



On 2/17/2015 8:25 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------050303040501080400040100-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 12:56:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D80F1A894F for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v1OOR0_uNHlD for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22e.google.com (mail-ie0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F1701A893F for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by iecrd18 with SMTP id rd18so61948403iec.8 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:56:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=KN/h39x5hPbZiOsvpYRIcN3GJfa5RxLuxYhaIcJBHE4=; b=yhx5nZfwj3gZnQMZmDMhTc5TvPx3DwZogq4xjhE+o6IBLwH02n0AUfUtaMI5RlWE5i Qnu0zKB2ravFPZMPnroweyswjOOz8J0WdCZIWerbcYdqwTrmllmBDniBbZwdTbcaogir fIfRf1yzUgGtYxl2v+rQm60tjgPLd06TGoIWzzruizp98qnNDqjAW55T2XS6i0vg0Ofz po7dMMDkaGV5YNTWkS2K31EgrEi/hTbWFyfBzphM1lPR1nf/7Zm49Rw7Hyf/mgN4cW3e lJk8S3kMrJIyacN5Qy5HQulu3C7+Zu3QTDFWUaZ97Z6QAuq2MsoiMO0FzNJdGXMM/WoW B6wA== X-Received: by 10.50.66.235 with SMTP id i11mr5013013igt.40.1425416192425; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m5sm1631561ige.5.2015.03.03.12.56.31 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:56:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F61FF4.8040502@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 15:56:20 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070107080909000007080308" Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] (minutes 6tisch security call Feb 24, 2015, 9am EST) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue Feb 24, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 20:56:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070107080909000007080308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 24, 2015, 9-10am EST. Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 24, 2015, 9-10am EST {note taker: Rene Struik} {discussion material (referenced in minutes): no posted material, although link to discussed chip set included in minutes} 1. Attendance: Pascal Thubert, Giuseppe Piro, Michael Richardson, Thomas Watteyne, Malisa Vucinic, Rene Struik 2. Agenda The suggested updated agenda was approved, after striking out item #3 (on time latency aspects). As Suggested agenda: 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} 2) implementation aspects (w/ HW considerations) 3) time latency aspects (continuation) 4) AOB 3. Minutes The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Tue February 17, 2015) still have to be approved. 4. Implementation aspects (w/ HW considerations) RS discussed some hardware aspects of the CC2538 System on a Chip (Texas Instruments), to the extent this pertains to implementation of public-key crypto operations. {The reason to look at this chipset was that this was presumably representative for the target space 6TiSCH is after.} Some observations: (a) This particular chip supports prime curves in so-called short-Weierstrass form (22.1.3.4.6); (b) where points are represented in affine format; (c) Some operations seem to take variable-time, e.g., modular inversion (22.1.4.4); (d) time latency for scalar multiplication using the NIST curve P-256 is roughly 1/6 second. RS remarked that time latencies indicated in the data sheet re-confirm the assessment that communication time latencies due to TSCH are expected to be more important than computational time latencies (same assessment as in 6TiSCH security call of Feb 17, 2015). Here, one should note that a joining node has to perform two scalar multiplications (to compute the ephemeral public key, respectively the shared Diffie-Hellman key) and might have to verify some signatures (which, with ECDSA, take roughly time equivalent to two scalar multiplications [without tricks]). MR noted that constant-time operations might add some additional time, due to, e.g., injection of random clock delays in the computation path. RS confirmed (upon question by ThW) that figures discussed reflect so-called perfect forward secrecy (aka "PFS"). GP noted that he and his group were conducting some security implementation experiments, although they currently focused on regular security tasks (outside the realm of join operations). RS noted that the choice of curve might impact whether hardware support is available. As an example, if one would use some of the curves CFRG is currently debating, these would not be supported [with this chipset]. On a general note, most smart grid architectural documents mandate the use of NIST curve P-256 (which also allow FIPS validation), so are expected to stay. He suggested this may be a prudent choice for 6TiSCH security as well. Notwithstanding this, of course, designing with algorithm agility in mind would be required. 5. AOB a) Architecture document PTh noted that there were a few comments related to draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch-05 that pertained to security and suggested further discussion via the mailing list. b) Rechartering 6TiSCH is expected to recharter just after the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas (March 2015). He invited everyone to give some thought to a paragraph on security that could end up with this revised charter and, possibly, include some documents. On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) > 3) time latency aspects (continuation) > 4) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, > 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 > From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. > > As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last > week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas > Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) > 3) AOB > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >> >> I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more >> feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. >> >> I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the >> join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow >> around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) time latency aspects >> 3) AOB >> >> On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of >>> January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >>> >>> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >>> {note taker: Rene Struik} >>> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >>> not on the call} >>> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >>> collatoral} >>> >>> 1. Attendance: >>> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >>> >>> 2. Agenda >>> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> 3. Minutes >>> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >>> January 22, 2015) were approved. >>> >>> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >>> "varia" discussion really} >>> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview >>> text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal >>> Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - >>> Security Considerations) and would issue >>> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >>> >>> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >>> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >>> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it >>> would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that >>> could serve as baseline. >>> >>> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >>> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >>> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >>> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS >>> commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering >>> historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that >>> according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would >>> only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those >>> people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. >>> Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to >>> interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those >>> criteria (as previously suggested). >>> >>> 5. AOB >>> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >>> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call will >>> take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >>> >>> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi >>> Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >>> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like >>> to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the >>> now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >>> >>> [call ended @9.23am EST] >>> >>> >>> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a >>>> short call. >>>> >>>> Suggested agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>> 3) AOB >>>> >>>> The dial-in info is below. >>>> >>>> Best regards, Rene >>>> >>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>> Audio connection: >>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>> >>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>> Meeting link: >>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>> >>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>>> bottom of email. >>>>> >>>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, >>>>> 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on >>>>> time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>>> >>>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>>> 5) AOB >>>>> >>>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>>> >>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will >>>>>> otherwise remain the same) >>>>>> >>>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I >>>>>>>> hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for >>>>>>>> the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm >>>>>>>> EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January >>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes >>>>>>>> into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. >>>>>>>> RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target >>>>>>>> to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next >>>>>>>> week (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do >>>>>>>>> respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan >>>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, >>>>>>>>> Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: >>>>>>>>> input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good >>>>>>>>> to have some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, >>>>>>>>>> Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior >>>>>>>>>> to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may >>>>>>>>>> have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last >>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared >>>>>>>>>> some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, >>>>>>>>>> we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join >>>>>>>>>> protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared >>>>>>>>>> material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic >>>>>>>>>> discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into >>>>>>>>>> architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related >>>>>>>>>> aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related >>>>>>>>>> join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, >>>>>>>>>> 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) >>>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide >>>>>>>>>> deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and >>>>>>>>>> 2), to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------070107080909000007080308 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 24, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 24, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): no posted material, although link to discussed chip set included in minutes}

1. Attendance:
Pascal Thubert, Giuseppe Piro, Michael Richardson, Thomas Watteyne, Malisa Vucinic, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved, after striking out item #3 (on time latency aspects). As
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/ HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Tue February 17, 2015) still have to be approved.

4. Implementation aspects (w/ HW considerations)
RS discussed some hardware aspects of the CC2538 System on a Chip (Texas Instruments), to the extent this pertains to implementation of public-key crypto operations. {The reason to look at this chipset was that this was presumably representative for the target space 6TiSCH is after.} Some observations: (a) This particular chip supports prime curves in so-called short-Weierstrass form (22.1.3.4.6); (b) where points are represented in affine format; (c) Some operations seem to take variable-time, e.g., modular inversion (22.1.4.4); (d) time latency for scalar multiplication using the NIST curve P-256 is roughly 1/6 second.

RS remarked that time latencies indicated in the data sheet re-confirm the assessment that communication time latencies due to TSCH are expected to be more important than computational time latencies (same assessment as in 6TiSCH security call of Feb 17, 2015). Here, one should note that a joining node has to perform two scalar multiplications (to compute the ephemeral public key, respectively the shared Diffie-Hellman key) and might have to verify some signatures (which, with ECDSA, take roughly time equivalent to two scalar multiplications [without tricks]). MR noted that constant-time operations might add some additional time, due to, e.g., injection of random clock delays in the computation path. RS confirmed (upon question by ThW) that figures discussed reflect so-called perfect forward secrecy (aka "PFS"). GP noted that he and his group were conducting some security implementation experiments, although they currently focused on regular security tasks (outside the realm of join operations).

RS noted that the choice of curve might impact whether hardware support is available. As an example, if one would use some of the curves CFRG is currently debating, these would not be supported [with this chipset]. On a general note, most smart grid architectural documents mandate the use of NIST curve P-256 (which also allow FIPS validation), so are expected to stay. He suggested this may be a prudent choice for 6TiSCH security as well. Notwithstanding this, of course, designing with algorithm agility in mind would be required.

5. AOB

a) Architecture document
PTh noted that there were a few comments related to draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch-05 that pertained to security and suggested further discussion via the mailing list.

b) Rechartering
6TiSCH is expected to recharter just after the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas (March 2015). He invited everyone to give some thought to a paragraph on security that could end up with this revised charter and, possibly, include some documents.





On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------070107080909000007080308-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 13:14:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C121A897E for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:14:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jzxAdh6Q-ij for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x233.google.com (mail-ig0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B39A81AC447 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by igkb16 with SMTP id b16so31661158igk.1 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=n4oKukRJWc4H1CmZHZ4P+1yvolW7lCWGWQ+pLNo2Xqk=; b=nnGQBKEr5JtSlxAytTKz2CcrAmf3uEuc3p0pTNE8+cr3nLk4gdOmzWERQ9Y9YegKkS +oXTeCHnwOBR8K0QrlZiJYLU0qXukJhD9i/zPQK5Cu2FNuk5NluxA2vmnaxFbDJdrlgU 6VXYzAmgnIVtrfDDgTbb7N67DCPmctBN5tgBvhWzZ+rwnTiFL9jUdt5WUobbv/BIT6bY qlMGyR4JHBbkh8sEYzU6QtjA+Oz8DLtzXTMNTOA7fM9WTZwIiAvSxZASSUcBKmY1v/Bf /oLbzyPnlZD9xF7MluGt5v9abF/wtutIWBD3ngVDHihkABmxlCj2bzh2YgbOutVnH4T1 K4bw== X-Received: by 10.50.4.40 with SMTP id h8mr31750607igh.34.1425417279901; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e196sm1619694ioe.40.2015.03.03.13.14.39 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F62433.3070002@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:14:27 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54B5BA30.9020200@gmail.com> <54BD58F5.1040500@gmail.com> <54BDF1EF.1020300@gmail.com> <54BECA04.2060409@gmail.com> <54BECEA8.5060908@gmail.com> <54BFC61B.50004@gmail.com> <54C6763B.2070204@gmail.com> <54C8FD34.5040307@gmail.com> <54D98E01.4090103@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54D98E01.4090103@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010900070404090503060805" Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] (minutes 6tisch security call Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:14:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010900070404090503060805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST {note taker: Rene Struik} {discussion material (referenced in minutes): no posted material} 1. Attendance: Thomas Watteyne, Michael Richardson, Tero Kivinen, Malisa Vucinic (*), Kris Pister (*), Subir Das (*), Rene Struik {Note: (*) part of the call only} 2. Agenda The suggested updated agenda was approved, after striking out item #2 (on time latency aspects). Instead, we should focus on next steps (as part of AOB). Suggested agenda: 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} 2) time latency aspects 3) AOB 3. Minutes The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call were approved. 4. AOB ("Next steps") ThW commented that the revised charter for 6TiSCH would include the join protocol, where rechartering would be discussed at the next face-to-face IETF meeting. RS asked participants on the call re agenda items for the calls prior to the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas (March 2015). He suggested as topics to include (a) time latency aspects of the join protocol; (b) implementation aspects; (c) detailed aspects of the join protocol (packet sizes in bits/bytes). MR suggested the architecture text to be finished, including certificate sizes, flows underlying DTLS, overhead/fragmentation. ThW commented that he had discussed some hardware implementation aspects with RS, where he mentioned (for transparency to the group) that he considered TI's CC2538 System on a Chip (Cortex M3) and the CC2520/ARM Core typical platforms that would fit the 6TiSCH target space. Participants agreed that the next three conf calls would focus on the following topics: a) time latency aspects; b) implementation aspects, including hardware; c) packet sizes, e.g., with DTLS. On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more > feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. > > I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the > join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow > around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects > 3) AOB > > On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of >> January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >> >> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >> {note taker: Rene Struik} >> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >> not on the call} >> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >> collatoral} >> >> 1. Attendance: >> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >> >> 2. Agenda >> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >> 3) AOB >> >> 3. Minutes >> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >> January 22, 2015) were approved. >> >> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >> "varia" discussion really} >> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview >> text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal >> Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - >> Security Considerations) and would issue >> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >> >> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it >> would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that >> could serve as baseline. >> >> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS >> commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering >> historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that >> according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would >> only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those >> people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. >> Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to >> interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those >> criteria (as previously suggested). >> >> 5. AOB >> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call will >> take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >> >> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba >> on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to >> see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now >> cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >> >> [call ended @9.23am EST] >> >> >> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short >>> call. >>> >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> The dial-in info is below. >>> >>> Best regards, Rene >>> >>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>> Audio connection: >>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>> >>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>> Meeting link: >>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>> >>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>> bottom of email. >>>> >>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, >>>> 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on >>>> time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>> >>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>> 5) AOB >>>> >>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>> >>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will >>>>> otherwise remain the same) >>>>> >>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I >>>>>>> hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for >>>>>>> the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January >>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into >>>>>>> account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS >>>>>>> agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to >>>>>>> report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week >>>>>>> (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond >>>>>>>> to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan >>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, >>>>>>>> Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input >>>>>>>> to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have >>>>>>>> some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue >>>>>>>>> Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior >>>>>>>>> to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may >>>>>>>>> have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last >>>>>>>>> week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared >>>>>>>>> some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, >>>>>>>>> we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join >>>>>>>>> protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared >>>>>>>>> material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic >>>>>>>>> discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into >>>>>>>>> architecture draft >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>> join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant >>>>>>>>> aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) >>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide >>>>>>>>> deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), >>>>>>>>> to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------010900070404090503060805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): no posted material}

1. Attendance:
Thomas Watteyne, Michael Richardson, Tero Kivinen, Malisa Vucinic (*), Kris Pister (*), Subir Das (*), Rene Struik
{Note: (*) part of the call only}

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved, after striking out item #2 (on time latency aspects). Instead, we should focus on next steps (as part of AOB).
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call were approved.

4. AOB ("Next steps")
ThW commented that the revised charter for 6TiSCH would include the join protocol, where rechartering would be discussed at the next face-to-face IETF meeting.

RS asked participants on the call re agenda items for the calls prior to the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas (March 2015). He suggested as topics to include (a) time latency aspects of the join protocol; (b) implementation aspects; (c) detailed aspects of the join protocol (packet sizes in bits/bytes). MR suggested the architecture text to be finished, including certificate sizes, flows underlying DTLS, overhead/fragmentation. ThW commented that he had discussed some hardware implementation aspects with RS, where he mentioned (for transparency to the group) that he considered TI's CC2538 System on a Chip (Cortex M3) and the CC2520/ARM Core typical platforms that would fit the 6TiSCH target space.

Participants agreed that the next three conf calls would focus on the following topics:
a) time latency aspects;
b) implementation aspects, including hardware;
c) packet sizes, e.g., with DTLS.



On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------010900070404090503060805-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 13:36:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FB61ACD41 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bw5rXH35lk4k for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22a.google.com (mail-wg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F461A0127 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by wgha1 with SMTP id a1so42769443wgh.5 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:36:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=ICuqFD2P5hJthlxFyjfjH5fqld2SJO08F1GnSKZzCJY=; b=t26Y0ZiCluV/GSXpEyqCj3JCQAVEoOgw4QRPjZevx3VvYzKerWFPUzcfneqhhuq2UH sONNR5HUm0zY8sabfINg/TCEVYBcGnK/er/MWzGbTquCVngxMJBGN6bfqvc3jzffPsXp jol+8+/CJK/7H0WY5sjht3AUdML3n87YCOLL90M8D2M0iUoU0UeGYzoLhj/09pzb/6MP YfO3k6Cz3Y3km0Zc/tLfWaIQ1nqCLf5fhgYrTpDF/XwCYRr08w5MkX+QOnKzjPwNa6IT jRBS8bGajIV+2C8udoCiK9odG/3snxvsl0FPTA5MCTohQm/jbK3ENI0dGmOZjgsZclAY mcNQ== X-Received: by 10.194.79.226 with SMTP id m2mr1811210wjx.60.1425418577966; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:36:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: twatteyne@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.82.39 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:35:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> From: Thomas Watteyne Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 22:35:57 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: DJEgwwmY0Z9IHiEU48ZW7iUjcJ0 Message-ID: To: Rene Struik Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0c538fefcee0510691f21 Archived-At: Cc: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:36:31 -0000 --047d7bf0c538fefcee0510691f21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rene, I'm trying to connect to the meeting, but Webex tells me the meeting is next week. Did I miss something? I'll stay connected for another couple of minutes. Thomas On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 5:42 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, > Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) packet sizes & time latency > 3) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > > On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, > Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) > 3) time latency aspects (continuation) > 4) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch > security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) Date: > Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, > Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. > > As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's > call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne > volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) > 3) AOB > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more > feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. > > I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join > protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon > EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects > 3) AOB > > On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of > January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. > > Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST > {note taker: Rene Struik} > {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on > the call} > {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted > collatoral} > > 1. Attendance: > Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik > > 2. Agenda > The suggested updated agenda was approved. > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 3) AOB > > 3. Minutes > The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January > 22, 2015) were approved. > > 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" > discussion really} > YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text > discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert > included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security > Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC > some time this week. > > RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the 6tisch > group would presumably recharter and include more security-related > milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have > a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline. > > TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested > that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of > sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the > work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed > quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. > TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev > draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those > people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it > does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in > the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously > suggested). > > 5. AOB > RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene > two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. *Next call will take place Tue > Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.* > > RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on > draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted > January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more > people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of > next week's call to review this draft... > > [call ended @9.23am EST] > > > On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 3) AOB > > The dial-in info is below. > > Best regards, Rene > > *B) Dial-in information:* > > English : New York Time 6tisch security > Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) > Meeting number: 641 709 118 > Meeting password: joinjoin > Audio connection: > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > Access code: 641 709 118 > Meeting link: > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 > > The etherpad we have used is at: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt > > > > On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, > resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email. > > Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, > with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your > speaker/mike beforehand. > > Suggested updated agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] > 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] > 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] > -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call > 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] > 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] > 5) AOB > > Link to suggested text (item #3 above): > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing > > On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today > concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. > > The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, > January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. > (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will > otherwise remain the same) > > Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). > > Best regards, Rene > > > On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing > > On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this > helps in zooming in on consensus text. > > I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch > security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much > time beforehand). > > Best regards, Rene > > [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, > 11am-12pm EST] > TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the > table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what > was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework > assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of > Monday next week (January 19, 2015). > > On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward > 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft > -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call > 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 5) AOB > > For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. > > As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the > Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. > > > Best regards, Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security > call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) Date: > Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, > 2015, 11am EST. > > Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the > 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments > on the draft I posted. > > Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call > dial-in info, see bottom of email. > > Best regards, Rene > > == > Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. > > On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Happy New Year! > > According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will > resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. > > I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas > (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation > first (item #2). > > Agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro > 3) join protocol details > -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior > -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects > -- c) incremental deployment aspects > 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents > -- a) terminology draft > -- b) architecture draft > > Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next > call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of > January 2015)}. > Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. > > Dial-in info at end of this email. > > Best regards, > > Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch > security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at > bottom) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week. > > Agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) join protocol details > -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior > -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we > did not finish the only two slides on this > 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents > > Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next > call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of > January 2015)}. > > Dial-in info at end of this email. > > Best regards, > > Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch > security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at > bottom) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some > material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all > MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss > higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the > systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now. > > This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a > continuation of last week's one): > > Same as last week's, except with > #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol; > #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and > routing/communication flow aspects > #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture > draft > > The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). > > Best regards, Rene > > *A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call* > > Proposed agenda: > > 0) Agenda bashing > > 1) Join protocol details > > a) desired properties > b) realizable properties > > #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol > (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue > Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST). > For slides, see > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing > (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) > Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but > also in excerpt (pdf)) > > 2) Next steps: > a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b > > #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and > routing/communication flow aspects > #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture > draft > > b) form tiger team to work out details > - project phases > - communication of sub-results > c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. > > I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be > discussed during the call. > > *B) Dial-in information:* > > English : New York Time 6tisch security > Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) > Meeting number: 641 709 118 > Meeting password: joinjoin > Audio connection: > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > Access code: 641 709 118 > Meeting link: > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 > > The etherpad we have used is at: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch-security mailing list > 6tisch-security@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security > > --047d7bf0c538fefcee0510691f21 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rene,

I'm trying to connect to the = meeting, but Webex tells me the meeting is next week. Did I miss something?=

I'll stay connected for another couple of min= utes.

Thomas

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 5:42 AM, Rene Struik= <rstruik.ext@gmail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) packet sizes & time latency
3) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST



On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join= protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspect= s" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the=C2=A0 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTI=
D=3Dm1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-s=
ecurity-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.c= om/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=3Dsharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.goog= le.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=3Dsharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org><= /td>


=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

=3D=3D
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST =3D 7am Japan =3D 2pm PST =3D 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org><= /a>


=20 Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST =3D 7am Japan =3D 2pm PST =3D 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>= ;


=20 Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am ES= T conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=3D0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9= JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=3Dsharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a) co= nsensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = b) form tiger team to work out details
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - project phases
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - communication of sub-results
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 c) wh= at to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch securit=
y
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTI=
D=3Dm1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-s=
ecurity-6top-xml.txt



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=







--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=





--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363

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--047d7bf0c538fefcee0510691f21-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 13:36:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511571ACD47 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dZsoUz9P05di for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 295051ACD46 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by iery20 with SMTP id y20so8977198ier.12 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:36:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=l8qgQZupVl0SC7zMOwz6ENPA5AYRFBG9A4eiwqFeSuw=; b=o7pSX9yZIASHajjhuHWB0toHx1QAMgyoIhsHSPyeA4Jsi1Cx+Jod9do0EfwBDLFBLB zXUv7q9EgEdSdejEK09MjE/f0k2Wmr9SItCiZVy89OIxrHsTuIPTi+uN0lN0Ir+/6oRA v68Z+aBdXHNnTIvhNZqWlvpFkzKRJJN/yZCccRvDT6EmnN3sI4Qamg5i8GelWRTbzcEq ndK2Le0ByPHnvhneMGcS215/LFPoCECL9enr+UJrbjERhCZhj/1WJoQ2qHFtXra3LwRK 1uAPPMQ+WMZVXZciNkxHV6kQPl8C9oz/4l3qjCh44L4RX8FqXcpeW0MrmkUSxo3W4q3K dBKw== X-Received: by 10.51.17.10 with SMTP id ga10mr6511582igd.42.1425418598359; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm1674296ion.14.2015.03.03.13.36.37 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:36:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F6295A.2020507@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:36:26 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030901040603030502020306" Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] (problem with WebEx link) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:36:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030901040603030502020306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have a call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm EST onwards... Rene On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call > *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) packet sizes & time latency > 3) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > > On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) >> 3) time latency aspects (continuation) >> 4) AOB >> >> The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. >> >> Rene >> >> == >> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as >> follows: >> Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST >> Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, >> 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) >> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 >> From: Rene Struik >> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >> >> >> >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. >> >> As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last >> week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas >> Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) >> 3) AOB >> >> == >> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as >> follows: >> Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST >> Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> >> On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>> tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >>> >>> I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more >>> feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. >>> >>> I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the >>> join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow >>> around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. >>> >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) time latency aspects >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as >>>> of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >>>> >>>> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >>>> {note taker: Rene Struik} >>>> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >>>> not on the call} >>>> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >>>> collatoral} >>>> >>>> 1. Attendance: >>>> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >>>> >>>> 2. Agenda >>>> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >>>> Suggested agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>> 3) AOB >>>> >>>> 3. Minutes >>>> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >>>> January 22, 2015) were approved. >>>> >>>> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >>>> "varia" discussion really} >>>> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview >>>> text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal >>>> Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 >>>> - Security Considerations) and would issue >>>> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >>>> >>>> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >>>> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >>>> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it >>>> would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting >>>> that could serve as baseline. >>>> >>>> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >>>> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >>>> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >>>> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS >>>> commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering >>>> historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that >>>> according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft >>>> would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to >>>> those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. >>>> Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to >>>> interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those >>>> criteria (as previously suggested). >>>> >>>> 5. AOB >>>> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >>>> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call >>>> will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >>>> >>>> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi >>>> Ohba on >>>> draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >>>> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like >>>> to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the >>>> now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >>>> >>>> [call ended @9.23am EST] >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a >>>>> short call. >>>>> >>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>> 3) AOB >>>>> >>>>> The dial-in info is below. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>> >>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>> Audio connection: >>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>> >>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>> Meeting link: >>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>> >>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>>>> bottom of email. >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, >>>>>> 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on >>>>>> time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>>>> >>>>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward >>>>>>> will otherwise remain the same) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. >>>>>>>>> I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda >>>>>>>>> for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, >>>>>>>>> 4.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January >>>>>>>>> 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes >>>>>>>>> into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>> RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target >>>>>>>>> to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next >>>>>>>>> week (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf >>>>>>>>>> call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do >>>>>>>>>> respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed >>>>>>>>>> Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, >>>>>>>>>> Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: >>>>>>>>>> input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good >>>>>>>>>> to have some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, >>>>>>>>>>> Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior >>>>>>>>>>> to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we >>>>>>>>>>> may have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at >>>>>>>>>>> bottom) >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last >>>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>> {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST >>>>>>>>>>> (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at >>>>>>>>>>> bottom) >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I >>>>>>>>>>> prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During >>>>>>>>>>> the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for >>>>>>>>>>> the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I >>>>>>>>>>> prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the >>>>>>>>>>> systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related >>>>>>>>>>> aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related >>>>>>>>>>> join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, >>>>>>>>>>> 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) >>>>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide >>>>>>>>>>> deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and >>>>>>>>>>> 2), to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------030901040603030502020306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have a call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm EST onwards...

Rene

On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) packet sizes & time latency
3) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST



On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------030901040603030502020306-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 13:44:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B551ACD55 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:44:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSU6vx1IpaXx for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64F7B1ACD50 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by iery20 with SMTP id y20so8895714ier.13 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:44:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=p65LuFSbIKWx4z+EuV5ySZB+5I4OyqoVs/MrgiyEWaI=; b=ROvtgqt5j2n3r7Y9kXefxUOQok0p7O88poQWTYfGUsQQ07ii+MvX95KOFNpdGVxVqz izss442E/mH99XZzy3Af0jnxKsyfR5djIRfqs427vklGImQc1j2QLo94/7jp/k8zL/td 9bBE+aRRVRZ8/mNh1mNqIKEisVZo+upy232n7LtS3jXuWGF1KQ/R8H9Xi0BQCkqRKQuU S4K32BxhFxc/NiudjlURjsAiJcKhnkXMpwhTTblCgi4dtnKxwtXL1IMiSw4heuTagru+ ny/3o4tuddBSCrrNuq3bys+luD8LtfRRkw6oW3uV3VzVe7xxf1M3EmOqzAqALyGuWJz2 HFIw== X-Received: by 10.50.142.106 with SMTP id rv10mr5436062igb.18.1425419076620; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w9sm9521460igl.0.2015.03.03.13.44.35 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:44:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F62B38.2060203@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:44:24 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> <54F6295A.2020507@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F6295A.2020507@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000709070705000603080403" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] (problem with WebEx link) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:44:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000709070705000603080403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues: We have to cancel the 6TiSCH Security conf call: I don't know what went wrong with the Webex info, but it does not work. We do not have any other 6tisch security call planned prior to the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March. Please follow the mailing list, should this change (and have sufficient merit to be disruptive with agenda planning). Best regards, Rene On 3/3/2015 4:36 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink > (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have > a call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm > EST onwards... > > Rene > > On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Dear colleagues: >> >> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >> *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >> >> Suggested agenda: >> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >> 2) packet sizes & time latency >> 3) AOB >> >> The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. >> >> Rene >> >> == >> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as >> follows: >> Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST >> Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST >> Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST >> Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST >> >> >> >> On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>> *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. >>> >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) >>> 3) time latency aspects (continuation) >>> 4) AOB >>> >>> The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. >>> >>> Rene >>> >>> == >>> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as >>> follows: >>> Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST >>> Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST >>> Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST >>> Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST >>> >>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, >>> 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) >>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 >>> From: Rene Struik >>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>> *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. >>> >>> As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last >>> week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas >>> Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. >>> >>> Suggested agenda: >>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>> 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) >>> 3) AOB >>> >>> == >>> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as >>> follows: >>> Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST >>> Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST >>> Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST >>> Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST >>> Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST >>> >>> On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>> tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. >>>> >>>> I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more >>>> feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. >>>> >>>> I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the >>>> join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow >>>> around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. >>>> >>>> Suggested agenda: >>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>> 2) time latency aspects >>>> 3) AOB >>>> >>>> On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as >>>>> of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. >>>>> >>>>> Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST >>>>> {note taker: Rene Struik} >>>>> {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was >>>>> not on the call} >>>>> {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted >>>>> collatoral} >>>>> >>>>> 1. Attendance: >>>>> Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik >>>>> >>>>> 2. Agenda >>>>> The suggested updated agenda was approved. >>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>> 3) AOB >>>>> >>>>> 3. Minutes >>>>> The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu >>>>> January 22, 2015) were approved. >>>>> >>>>> 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various >>>>> "varia" discussion really} >>>>> YO asked what happened with the output of the join process >>>>> overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that >>>>> Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft >>>>> (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue >>>>> draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week. >>>>> >>>>> RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the >>>>> 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more >>>>> security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought >>>>> it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting >>>>> that could serve as baseline. >>>>> >>>>> TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He >>>>> suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by >>>>> the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with >>>>> anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. >>>>> RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, >>>>> considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK >>>>> mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the >>>>> 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private >>>>> member area or to those people participating in person in an >>>>> actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to >>>>> make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch >>>>> community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested). >>>>> >>>>> 5. AOB >>>>> RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and >>>>> reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. _Next call >>>>> will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST._ >>>>> >>>>> RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi >>>>> Ohba on >>>>> draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 >>>>> (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like >>>>> to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the >>>>> now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft... >>>>> >>>>> [call ended @9.23am EST] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call >>>>>> tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a >>>>>> short call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>> 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>> 3) AOB >>>>>> >>>>>> The dial-in info is below. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>> >>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>> >>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>> >>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security >>>>>>> aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at >>>>>>> bottom of email. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, >>>>>>> 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please >>>>>>> call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Suggested updated agenda: >>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] >>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] >>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] >>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>> 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] >>>>>>> 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] >>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Link to suggested text (item #3 above): >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call >>>>>>>> today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this >>>>>>>> Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. >>>>>>>> (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward >>>>>>>> will otherwise remain the same) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>> I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. >>>>>>>>>> I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda >>>>>>>>>> for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, >>>>>>>>>> 4.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't >>>>>>>>>> have much time beforehand). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of >>>>>>>>>> January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST] >>>>>>>>>> TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals >>>>>>>>>> currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes >>>>>>>>>> into account consensus and what was discussed during the >>>>>>>>>> call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with >>>>>>>>>> target to report back on this to the group by the end of >>>>>>>>>> Monday next week (January 19, 2015). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf >>>>>>>>>>> call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Suggested agenda: >>>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>>> 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward >>>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>> -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call >>>>>>>>>>> 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas >>>>>>>>>>> 5) AOB >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do >>>>>>>>>>> respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see >>>>>>>>>>> https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed >>>>>>>>>>> Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call >>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: >>>>>>>>>>> input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be >>>>>>>>>>> good to have some more comments on the draft I posted. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For >>>>>>>>>>> conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> == >>>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call >>>>>>>>>>>> schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, >>>>>>>>>>>> Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off >>>>>>>>>>>> prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except >>>>>>>>>>>> that we may have a short presentation first (item #2). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>>>> 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro >>>>>>>>>>>> 3) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>>> -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>>>> -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> -- c) incremental deployment aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>>>> -- a) terminology draft >>>>>>>>>>>> -- b) architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm >>>>>>>>>>>> EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>>>> Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>>>> *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at >>>>>>>>>>>> bottom) >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last >>>>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Agenda: >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} >>>>>>>>>>>> 2) join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>>> -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior >>>>>>>>>>>> -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this >>>>>>>>>>>> 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris >>>>>>>>>>>> time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm >>>>>>>>>>>> EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dial-in info at end of this email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rene >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of >>>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at >>>>>>>>>>>> bottom) >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Rene Struik >>>>>>>>>>>> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I >>>>>>>>>>>> prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During >>>>>>>>>>>> the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for >>>>>>>>>>>> the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the >>>>>>>>>>>> systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week >>>>>>>>>>>> (essentially a continuation of last week's one): >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Same as last week's, except with >>>>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> join protocol; >>>>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and >>>>>>>>>>>> routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze >>>>>>>>>>>> into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call_ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed agenda: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 0) Agenda bashing >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Join protocol details >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a) desired properties >>>>>>>>>>>> b) realizable properties >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related >>>>>>>>>>>> aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related >>>>>>>>>>>> join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec >>>>>>>>>>>> 2, 2014, 9am EST). >>>>>>>>>>>> For slides, see >>>>>>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing >>>>>>>>>>>> (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST >>>>>>>>>>>> call) >>>>>>>>>>>> Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire >>>>>>>>>>>> slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf)) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Next steps: >>>>>>>>>>>> a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) >>>>>>>>>>>> and routing/communication flow aspects >>>>>>>>>>>> #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to >>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze into architecture draft >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> b) form tiger team to work out details >>>>>>>>>>>> - project phases >>>>>>>>>>>> - communication of sub-results >>>>>>>>>>>> c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and >>>>>>>>>>>> 2), to be discussed during the call. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _B) Dial-in information:_ >>>>>>>>>>>> English : New York Time 6tisch security >>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>>>>>> Meeting number: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>>>> Meeting password: joinjoin >>>>>>>>>>>> Audio connection: >>>>>>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Access code: 641 709 118 >>>>>>>>>>>> Meeting link: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The etherpad we have used is at: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------000709070705000603080403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

We have to cancel the 6TiSCH Security conf call: I don't know what went wrong with the Webex info, but it does not work.

We do not have any other 6tisch security call planned prior to the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March. Please follow the mailing list, should this change (and have sufficient merit to be disruptive with agenda planning).

Best regards, Rene

On 3/3/2015 4:36 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have a call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm EST onwards...

Rene

On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) packet sizes & time latency
3) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST



On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

==
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the  6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

==
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with
#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
        a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
        b) form tiger team to work out details
            - project phases
            - communication of sub-results
        c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363






-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------000709070705000603080403-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 13:46:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9DD1ACD58 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:46:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fl0drD1GA5gt for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-x22d.google.com (mail-we0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D056F1ACD50 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:46:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by wesk11 with SMTP id k11so42573052wes.11 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:46:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=3INiqoWVQhC0JILfmWXR4pNhyOqkIAsc23Yb4CpYjDU=; b=szq7LzzP2F2wsWRWFQ0ItDZuTXOMar5Q27qfZ8tjuhNfw0zVYslHrxMGxy+sz25A+Z fl46Z4maO+RyqFX8+b5kwH6j3uLqc7darXedrPslfNHy+Lxw7jVfiqQI/Wu/FQxpSlax 7ts+Hn421TuVg9fST65PuYmSApj2TdpxOZjTEHiOFalf1V2bZtVL6Ti6Zx7JNOxFT3eU FJeKKyiC5yqblMxJBJcOn0e3QQ38igIu0xFgq2vb+TV/lQfzlWfVHwDGQ9iqaC9p9qBB MEuRO6+b4soySUKvJ2SLa2acmEKiJnRwhp9+sbRH0WhacmeNbkZB4KGEmAHEvX4kCWuD TqOw== X-Received: by 10.180.14.7 with SMTP id l7mr50647409wic.40.1425419193501; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:46:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: twatteyne@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.82.39 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:46:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54F62B38.2060203@gmail.com> References: <54E3414E.2070201@gmail.com> <54EB7FA5.7010007@gmail.com> <54F53BB0.7070308@gmail.com> <54F6295A.2020507@gmail.com> <54F62B38.2060203@gmail.com> From: Thomas Watteyne Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 22:46:13 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: UBImyUqoM1lt26RZnoC0D3ao4tc Message-ID: To: Rene Struik Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04138cdfaf4f610510694424 Archived-At: Cc: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] (problem with WebEx link) Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST (includes dial-in info) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:46:42 -0000 --f46d04138cdfaf4f610510694424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks Rene for the update. I believe that's the wisest decision. Too bad, but let's catch up in Dallas around a nice table rather than in front of a computer screen :-) On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > We have to cancel the 6TiSCH Security conf call: I don't know what went > wrong with the Webex info, but it does not work. > > We do not have any other 6tisch security call planned prior to the IETF-92 > meeting in Dallas in March. Please follow the mailing list, should this > change (and have sufficient merit to be disruptive with agenda planning). > > Best regards, Rene > > > On 3/3/2015 4:36 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink > (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have a > call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm EST > onwards... > > Rene > > On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, > Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) packet sizes & time latency > 3) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > > On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, > Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations) > 3) time latency aspects (continuation) > 4) AOB > > The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down. > > Rene > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch > security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info) Date: > Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, > Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST. > > As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's > call "time latency aspects" of the join protocol . Thomas Watteyne > volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne) > 3) AOB > > == > The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as > follows: > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST > > On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more > feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th. > > I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join > protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon > EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) time latency aspects > 3) AOB > > On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of > January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST. > > Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST > {note taker: Rene Struik} > {recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on > the call} > {discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted > collatoral} > > 1. Attendance: > Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik > > 2. Agenda > The suggested updated agenda was approved. > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 3) AOB > > 3. Minutes > The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January > 22, 2015) were approved. > > 4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" > discussion really} > YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text > discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert > included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security > Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC > some time this week. > > RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the 6tisch > group would presumably recharter and include more security-related > milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have > a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline. > > TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested > that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of > sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the > work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed > quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. > TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev > draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those > people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it > does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in > the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously > suggested). > > 5. AOB > RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene > two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. *Next call will take place Tue > Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.* > > RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on > draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 (posted > January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more > people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of > next week's call to review this draft... > > [call ended @9.23am EST] > > > On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 3) AOB > > The dial-in info is below. > > Best regards, Rene > > *B) Dial-in information:* > > English : New York Time 6tisch security > Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) > Meeting number: 641 709 118 > Meeting password: joinjoin > Audio connection: > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > Access code: 641 709 118 > Meeting link: > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 > > The etherpad we have used is at: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt > > > > On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, > resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email. > > Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, > with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your > speaker/mike beforehand. > > Suggested updated agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min] > 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min] > 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min] > -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call > 4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min] > 5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min] > 5) AOB > > Link to suggested text (item #3 above): > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=sharing > > On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today > concluded that it was best to reschedule the call. > > The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, > January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST. > (Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will > otherwise remain the same) > > Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down). > > Best regards, Rene > > > On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below. > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=sharing > > On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this > helps in zooming in on consensus text. > > I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch > security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST. > > We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much > time beforehand). > > Best regards, Rene > > [excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, > 11am-12pm EST] > TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the > table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what > was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework > assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of > Monday next week (January 19, 2015). > > On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, > Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST. > > Suggested agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward > 3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft > -- RS to present result homework assignment of last call > 4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas > 5) AOB > > For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email. > > As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the > Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae. > > > Best regards, Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security > call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom) Date: > Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, > 2015, 11am EST. > > Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the > 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments > on the draft I posted. > > Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call > dial-in info, see bottom of email. > > Best regards, Rene > > == > Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. > > On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > > Dear colleagues: > > Happy New Year! > > According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will > resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST. > > I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas > (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation > first (item #2). > > Agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro > 3) join protocol details > -- a) (done) status update MAC behavior > -- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects > -- c) incremental deployment aspects > 4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents > -- a) terminology draft > -- b) architecture draft > > Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next > call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of > January 2015)}. > Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST. > > Dial-in info at end of this email. > > Best regards, > > Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch > security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at > bottom) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week. > > Agenda: > 1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} > 2) join protocol details > -- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior > -- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we > did not finish the only two slides on this > 3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents > > Conf call time: 5pm EST = 7am Japan = 2pm PST = 11pm Paris time. {The next > call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of > January 2015)}. > > Dial-in info at end of this email. > > Best regards, > > Rene > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch > security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at > bottom) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500 From: Rene Struik > To: tisch-security > <6tisch-security@ietf.org> <6tisch-security@ietf.org> > > Dear colleagues: > > For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST conf call I prepared some > material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all > MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss > higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the > systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now. > > This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a > continuation of last week's one): > > Same as last week's, except with > #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol; > #2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and > routing/communication flow aspects > #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture > draft > > The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B). > > Best regards, Rene > > *A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call* > > Proposed agenda: > > 0) Agenda bashing > > 1) Join protocol details > > a) desired properties > b) realizable properties > > #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol > (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue > Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST). > For slides, see > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2a6Ilxu1XfCNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=sharing > (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call) > Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but > also in excerpt (pdf)) > > 2) Next steps: > a) consensus on 1#a and 1#b > > #2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and > routing/communication flow aspects > #2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture > draft > > b) form tiger team to work out details > - project phases > - communication of sub-results > c) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc. > > I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be > discussed during the call. > > *B) Dial-in information:* > > English : New York Time 6tisch security > Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00) > Meeting number: 641 709 118 > Meeting password: joinjoin > Audio connection: > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > Access code: 641 709 118 > Meeting link: > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6 > > The etherpad we have used is at: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-security-6top-xml.txt > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch-security mailing list > 6tisch-security@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security > > --f46d04138cdfaf4f610510694424 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Rene for the update. I believe that's the wises= t decision.

Too bad, but let's catch up in Dallas ar= ound a nice table rather than in front of a computer screen :-)
=

On Tue, Mar 3, 20= 15 at 10:44 PM, Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com> wrot= e:
=20 =20 =20
Dear colleagues:

We have to cancel the 6TiSCH Security conf call: I don't know wha= t went wrong with the Webex info, but it does not work.

We do not have any other 6tisch security call planned prior to the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March. Please follow the mailing list, should this change (and have sufficient merit to be disruptive with agenda planning).

Best regards, Rene


On 3/3/2015 4:36 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

There seems to be a problem with the 6TiSCH security conf call weblink (which seems to be set to Tue March 10th, 9am EST [when we do not have a call]) and not today, when we are scheduled to have a call 4.30pm EST onwards...

Rene

On 3/2/2015 11:42 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue March 3, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) packet sizes & time latency
3) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST



On 2/23/2015 2:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *tomorrow*, Tue February 24, 2015, 9am EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) implementation aspects (w/. HW considerations)
3) time latency aspects (continuation)
4) AOB

The dial-in information is the same as usual -- please scroll down.

Rene

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: Reminder -- 6tisch security call *today*, Tue Feb 17, 2015, 9am EST (includes dial-in info)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:25:34 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>


=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call *today*, Tue February 17, 2015, 9am EST.

As you may recall, I put as tentative item on the agenda of last week's call "time latency aspects" of t= he join protocol . Thomas Watteyne volunteered to take on this topic for this week's call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects (Thomas Watteyne)
3) AOB

=3D=3D
The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

On 2/9/2015 11:50 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue February 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

I have not seen any email traffic the last two weeks, nor any more feedback on the draft document I posted on Fri January 9th.

I put as tentative item on the agenda "time latency aspects" of the join protocol. I will send out a more definitive agenda tomorrow around noon EST. Please send agenda request to me prior to that time.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) time latency aspects
3) AOB

On 1/28/2015 10:16 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Please find below the minutes of the 6TiSCH Security conf call as of January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST.

Minutes 6TiSCH Security conf call, Wed January 27, 2015, 9-10am EST
{note taker: Rene Struik}
{recording: not available (Michael Richardson had control, but was not on the call}
{discussion material (referenced in minutes): this time, no posted collatoral}

1. Attendance:
Tero Kivinen, Yoshi Ohba, Rene Struik

2. Agenda
The suggested updated agenda was approved.
Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

3. Minutes
The minutes of the previous 6TiSCH security conference call (Thu January 22, 2015) were approved.

4. Prep for IETF-92 in Dallas {more of a 6tisch security various "varia" discussion really}
YO asked what happened with the output of the join process overview text discussed during last week's call. RS mentioned that Pascal Thubert included this in the 6tisch architecture draft (Section 13 - Security Considerations) and would issue draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-05 for WGLC some time this week.

RS mentioned that at the IETF-92 meeting in Dallas in March, the=C2=A0 6tisch group would presumably recharter and include more security-related milestones into the revised charter. He thought it would be useful to have a 6tisch security draft by that meeting that could serve as baseline.

TK provided some more insight into the 802.15.4rev effort. He suggested that there would be 1-2 more letter ballots, followed by the start of sponsor ballot around end of March 2015, with anticipated conclusion of the work around July-August this year. RS commented that this schedule seemed quite aggressive, considering historical timelines of IEEE 802.15 efforts. TK mentioned that according to Bob Heile (Chair IEEE 802.15) the 802.15rev draft would only be available in the 802.15 private member area or to those people participating in person in an actual IEEE 802 meeting. Therefore, it does not seem possible to make a draft available to interested parties in the 6tisch community who did not meet those criteria (as previously suggested).

5. AOB
RS suggested to cancel the 6tisch security call of next week and reconvene two weeks from now, which was agreed upon. Next call will take place Tue Feb 10, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

RS mentioned he had received feedback from Kris Pister and Yoshi Ohba on draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations= -01 (posted January 9, 2015). Before updating the draft, he would like to see more people give this a look. He invited people to use the now cancelled slot of next week's call to review this draft...

[call ended @9.23am EST]


On 1/26/2015 12:15 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 27, 2015, 9am EST. I expect this to be a short call.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
3) AOB

The dial-in info is below.

Best regards, Rene

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch security
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTI=
D=3Dm1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-s=
ecurity-6top-xml.txt


On 1/21/2015 10:30 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Giuseppe Piro offered to give a presentation on MAC security aspects, resulting in the updated agenda below. Dial-in info at bottom of email.

Remember: 6tisch security call is now tomorrow, Thu Jan 21, 2015, 1pm EST, with duration not to exceed one hour. Please call-in on time and test your speaker/mike beforehand.

Suggested updated agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes} [4 min]
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward [1 min]
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft [15 min]
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) presentation Giuseppe Piro re MAC security [30 min]
5) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas [10 min]
5) AOB

Link to suggested text (item #3 above):
https://drive.goog= le.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCbVhfd0ZONXoxc00/view?usp=3Dsharing

On 1/20/2015 4:54 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Due to connectivity problems, those on the 6tisch security call today concluded that it was best to reschedule the call.

The rescheduled 6tisch security call will take place this Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1-2pm EST.
(Please note that this is only once; schedule moving forward will otherwise remain the same)

Agenda and dial-in info remain the same (please scroll down).

Best regards, Rene


On 1/20/2015 4:35 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
I posted the document on Google drive, see weblink below.

https://drive.= google.com/file/d/0B2a6Ilxu1XfCa3RyZzlZb3RRREk/view?usp=3Dsharing

On 1/20/2015 1:13 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20
Dear colleagues:

Please find attached my analysis of the three text proposals. I hope this helps in zooming in on consensus text.

I will present this in more detail as item #3 on the agenda for the 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST.

We can discuss this in more detail during that call (I won't have much time beforehand).

Best regards, Rene

[excerpt of minutes of 6tisch security conf call as of January 14, 2015, 11am-12pm EST]
TW asked whether RS could review the three text proposals currently on the table and suggest a way forward that takes into account consensus and what was discussed during the call. RS agreed to take this on as homework assignment, with target to report back on this to the group by the end of Monday next week (January 19, 2015).

On 1/19/2015 2:20 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we have a 6TiSCH security conf call tomorrow, Tue January 20, 2015, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

Suggested agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) 6tisch security conf call schedule moving forward
3) input 6tisch security to architecture draft
-- RS to present result homework assignment of last call
4) prep for IETF-92 in Dallas
5) AOB

For dial-in info, please see bottom of this email.

As to item #2 above, if you wish to weigh-in, please do respond to the Doodle poll by end of *today*, see https://doodle.com/q63844gqd= 59urrae.

Best regards, Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: reminder -- 6tisch security call *tomorrow*, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:37:04 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org><= /a>


=20
Dear colleagues:

Just a quick reminder that we *do* have a conf call tomorrow, Wed Jan 14, 2015, 11am EST.

Currently, the main agenda item is item #4b of last week: input to the 6tisch architecture draft. It would also be good to have some more comments on the draft I posted.

Minutes of calls later tonight (sorry - extremely busy). For conf call dial-in info, see bottom of email.

Best regards, Rene

=3D=3D
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14= , 2015, 11am EST.

On 1/6/2015 11:48 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
=20 Dear colleagues:

Happy New Year!

According to the agreed-upon 6tisch security conf call schedule, we will resume the conference call series today, Tue Jan 6, 2015, 5pm EST.

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off prior to Christmas (essentially, item 3c below), except that we may have a short presentation first (item #2).

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) {still to be confirmed} presentation Giuseppe Piro
3) join protocol details
-- a) (done) status update MAC behavior
-- b) (brief!) recap of routing/communication flow aspects
-- c) incremental deployment aspects
4) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents
-- a) terminology draft
-- b) architecture draft

Conf call time: 5pm EST =3D 7am Japan =3D 2pm PST =3D 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.
Note: next week's call is on Wed Jan 14= , 2015, 11am EST.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of *today*, Tue December 16, 2014, 5pm EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:21:20 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org&= gt;


=20 Dear colleagues:

I propose we continue the discussion where we left off last week.

Agenda:
1) administrativia {agenda bashing/minutes}
2) join protocol details
-- a) (brief!) status update MAC behavior
-- b) continuation of routing/communication flow aspects {last week, we did not finish the only two slides on this
3) input 6tisch security to other 6tisch documents

Conf call time: 5pm EST =3D 7am Japan =3D 2pm PST =3D 11pm Paris time. {The next call, on January 6, 2014) is also at 5pm EST (see schedule till half of January 2015)}.

Dial-in info at end of this email.

Best regards,

Rene

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: suggested agenda for 6tisch security call of tomorrow, Tue December 9, 2014, 9am EST (dial-in info at bottom)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:40 -0500
From: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>=
To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.or= g>


=20 Dear colleagues:

For last week's Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9a= m EST conf call I prepared some material and posted prior to the call. During the call, we discussed all MAC-related aspects relevant for the join protocol and did not discuss higher-layer aspects I prepared material for yet. I suggest we continue the systematic discussion of last week and take that topic on now.

This leads to the following suggested agenda for this week (essentially a continuation of last week's one):

Same as last week's, except with #1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol;
#2a): confirm concensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft

The detailed agenda and dial-in info is below (#A, resp. #B).

Best regards, Rene

A) Suggested agenda Tue Dec 9, 2014, 9am EST call

Proposed agenda:

0) Agenda bashing

1) Join protocol details
a) desired properties
b) realizable properties

#1a-b) focus on routing/communication flow related aspects join protocol (we discussed MAC-related join-relevant aspects during the conf call of Tue Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST).
For slides, see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=3D0B2a6Ilxu1Xf= CNF9JaXR1ZXlzZlU&usp=3Dsharing (same slides as sent out prior to Dec 2, 2014, 9am EST call)
Relevant slides: Slides 23-25 (contained in entire slide deck (ppt), but also in excerpt (pdf))
2) Next steps:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a= ) consensus on 1#a and 1#b
#2a): confirm consensus on MAC (as discussed last week) and routing/communication flow aspects
#2c) {as consequence of two items above} what to squeeze into architecture draft
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 b) form tiger team to work out details
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - project phases
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - communication of sub-results
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 c= ) what to squeeze into architecture draft, etc.

I will prepare material to facilitate discussion on 1) and 2), to be discussed during the call.

B) Dial-in information:
English : New York Time 6tisch sec=
urity
Tuesday, December 9, 2014 | 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time (GMT-05:00)
Meeting number:   641 709 118
Meeting password: joinjoin
Audio connection:
      1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
      1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 641 709 118
Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTI=
D=3Dm1aa12258a83109b4ae291fb0c2bd92d6

The etherpad we have used is at:
       http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/6tisch-s=
ecurity-6top-xml.txt



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=







--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=





--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=



--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363




--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


--=20
email: rstruik.e=
xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363

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--f46d04138cdfaf4f610510694424-- From nobody Tue Mar 3 18:38:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5C3D1ACD0C; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:30:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Wk4nvSkofNM; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x22a.google.com (mail-ig0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4F8B1ACCE2; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by igkb16 with SMTP id b16so31772229igk.1; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:30:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hgiv8ugGdIEVlg9Bmf6uFvz+ErnJ1JGvcmIOKeGF2Pk=; b=P6/SEZ+Grc4hG1QqgJoDZmhBxW7l4MOVfoSndziWGy6j1yhdm3AsnZPypsd4CXwYm1 MWzC7Ln6eLOhA604LhUBZVIhWLvLw7l+P8GFZr9dXPsGtSeCPQ5oGeL/AMO75tGPaQde VYkr+nA9lxgiSMK0MESpxM7BfCetEvehApTmvDW6pWmTeLbTDv4GKr7nEus+GFFNTUZ2 3gUZlvTGhIWPb/7i3wyrH0l8GjMZQc7wqouu4YgkgNqsrsMWtVkg2UfuLvukkfFdozKs LRybn33rR6IL1MFw8E8HrPquziLwRiWSgLsaOOeOKk1Tig5qTJUELhb+9xyPpTQlA1Uv d55g== X-Received: by 10.107.133.220 with SMTP id p89mr4911598ioi.63.1425418206962; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e196sm1642370ioe.40.2015.03.03.13.30.05 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:30:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:29:54 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter , Hannes Tschofenig , sarikaya@ieee.org References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:38:44 -0800 Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: [6tisch-security] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good (was: Re: [Anima] Thread [Comments needed for Security Bootstrapping of IEEE 802.15.4 based Internet of Things]) X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:30:13 -0000 Dear colleagues: I don't understand all the excitement here: everyone is free to draw up architectural blueprints and complete designs to their liking. This can be done in the attic, as company-internal project, with an industry consortium, or with SDOs, such as IETF. There is no way of knowing what people dream up in their attic or in a "secret" project X type of effort. Or, is the fear that IETF will loose its lustre? Competition (without bullying) is good and is an enticement to consider solid designs and thinking outside of the "we-did-this-20-years-ago-like-this-and-therefore-have-to-stick-to-this" box (the flaky ones will end up with marketing and PR departments of competing efforts to poke fun at). Best regards, Rene On 3/3/2015 2:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members >> since the specification is still work in progress. >> >> I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public. >> >> Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. > It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so that it > can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed standards > development produces bad standards. > > Brian > >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> >> On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>> >>> ... >>>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>> Here is an intro document: >>>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >>> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad hoc >>> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >>> policy. >>> >>>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>>> with home environments. >>>> >>>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >>> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>> >>> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >>> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >>> >>> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >>> enrollment? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Anima mailing list >>> Anima@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>> > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch-security mailing list > 6tisch-security@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 From nobody Tue Mar 3 18:38:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80691ACDE3; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbjMy7UX7tie; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DF131ACDE5; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by padfb1 with SMTP id fb1so18395220pad.7; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:06:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=b5Zwk1+kac9uMKQstRi5lX6XxUQbq1u6ElFemF+UDlg=; b=u+wY535A9FM/z39kAuBKHer7DkQdOHAEceXirAyQ1CPyf/xVcDZYuoxfCET6HP+PpQ WKQ5JuSdXIWmnrF/oFLMGJ5FWqA+YpCRBRWgiS0UcjUPuk/P4XGX+drQePbagsZBWa1X eOwO6+WZ4KeRfHQdxTeZMLgLNFAQY+JlOx5+WaKQBNPKT/LkgbQXysuFpsBi+Mm6C0Dt 1vu087ghkR6MFkYwuGcxb5BaM4ChhPKG4H0hAKHHk/bZY9nF09P70tKOsZyVGUKNf0sf gszeyzk4b2y6546P3ZRqp+cuBNgEezSbD6LQ0wl3v/bvzjWb70wDrbqjtXwxhVZXCJr4 sTNw== X-Received: by 10.66.218.10 with SMTP id pc10mr1551637pac.116.1425420384329; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:4f85:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:4f85:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bc5sm1927351pdb.47.2015.03.03.14.06.18 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:06:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:06:22 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rene Struik , Hannes Tschofenig , sarikaya@ieee.org References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:38:44 -0800 Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:06:31 -0000 Regards Brian Carpenter http://orcid.org/0000-0001-7924-6182 On 04/03/2015 10:29, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > I don't understand all the excitement here: everyone is free to draw up > architectural blueprints and complete designs to their liking. This can > be done in the attic, as company-internal project, with an industry > consortium, or with SDOs, such as IETF. There is no way of knowing what > people dream up in their attic or in a "secret" project X type of > effort. Or, is the fear that IETF will loose its lustre? No. The fear (and it has been realised many times in the past) is that a closed consortium will agree on and start shipping a solution which does not mesh well with the rest of the Internet. A liaison arrangement can help to avoid that. Brian > Competition (without bullying) is good and is an enticement to consider > solid designs and thinking outside of the > "we-did-this-20-years-ago-like-this-and-therefore-have-to-stick-to-this" > box (the flaky ones will end up with marketing and PR departments of > competing efforts to poke fun at). > > Best regards, Rene > > > On 3/3/2015 2:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>> At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members >>> since the specification is still work in progress. >>> >>> I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public. >>> >>> Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. >> It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so that it >> can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed standards >> development produces bad standards. >> >> Brian >> >>> Ciao >>> Hannes >>> >>> >>> On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>>> >>>> ... >>>>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>>> Here is an intro document: >>>>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >>>> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad hoc >>>> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >>>> policy. >>>> >>>>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>>>> with home environments. >>>>> >>>>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>>> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >>>> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>>> >>>> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >>>> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >>>> >>>> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >>>> enrollment? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Anima mailing list >>>> Anima@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tisch-security mailing list >> 6tisch-security@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security > > From nobody Tue Mar 3 18:38:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997191A8A14; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:22:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xis2mLUpONAn; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 651421A89B0; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BPV94301; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 01:22:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 01:22:25 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.106]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 09:22:15 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: Brian E Carpenter , Rene Struik , Hannes Tschofenig , "sarikaya@ieee.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good Thread-Index: AQHQVf5Yt+Bbp/HXr028aaO2paWO+Z0Lg/Fw Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 01:22:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0552CD@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.197] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:38:44 -0800 Cc: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" , 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 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ESMTP id F127F1A06FD; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ly-djpqOP0Rx; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16C9A1A06E9; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.131.141] ([80.92.121.102]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LxxNo-1XNqdd0a1c-015Joo; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:03:33 +0100 Message-ID: <54F6BC4B.2020101@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:03:23 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter , sarikaya@ieee.org References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> OpenPGP: id=4D776BC9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eSvkKfixfDkOnQcjKj8x5FmuwkT5l2VsO" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:PrrOhxP+RxdYivL6RFsh/lRwPld9fk1b8YrVptmq491qLMifOK1 qBh4RTzTaXpBkw0qUk2c6gcYQ2rwDKXbEbQoQJ39k6JOVlvonJOE5MyjqGKW/zLbKrfk8EM ycZ6rtKUV8diz3wsxyitMHVNH2mULXStfRTUXwFs4AubxYnobgnK8/Tro+S39TZjM8L6tHk KfoEmsy+XzLb1liI4m5wA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] Thread [Comments needed for Security Bootstrapping of IEEE 802.15.4 based Internet of Things] X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:03:51 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --eSvkKfixfDkOnQcjKj8x5FmuwkT5l2VsO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was corrected after I sent the mail below to the list and learned something new (after consulting with my co-worker Robert). The specifications are not yet available to all members but only to a core group of member companies. They will be made available to the them probably in June. If the specs become available publically I will post a link to the list. Ciao Hannes On 03/03/2015 05:36 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members > since the specification is still work in progress. >=20 > I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public= =2E >=20 > Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 >=20 > On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> ... >>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>> >>>> Here is an intro document: >>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >> >> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad ho= c >> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >> policy. >> >>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>> with home environments. >>> >>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >> >> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >> >> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >> >> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >> enrollment? >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> >=20 --eSvkKfixfDkOnQcjKj8x5FmuwkT5l2VsO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJU9rxLAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtFuEH/iNOAVyomTg5zNDTzMHaq73V ZL3n/JsSVAgshDvCxZ1hWgtOyLkUTmHS0M+x3w0TjoU8hhFMCLfrWloec+yLDhs7 uWZt8oD5x8iC1j8sejGn+Agmiy1hktOQH7uvOURJH/1bCl6lCGq2MjdubUfc8FEz qyT2kXxdhpMxVrMzVgFsOsPFAD1ZiwIRo9RVCXcNMnmnVMkycqR71s220wIZrrsO cu6znenkEp4CwYNTumiLTW3Af4xEMS/uHmXbsKF4jdA5SI6snhm4+NDzbJeKSDwQ aNC3zWhCpcgo0jCAfoqIwECIy8FscXXR+PyBIhBTYfBvYUF7JI9AJfyHGriW7Xs= =k6c9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eSvkKfixfDkOnQcjKj8x5FmuwkT5l2VsO-- From nobody Fri Mar 6 09:04:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0C61A017A; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 19:38:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1K_Y0B_NDRKn; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 19:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x233.google.com (mail-ig0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AB141A0174; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 19:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by igal13 with SMTP id l13so30896960iga.1; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:38:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eUM8iqJTtQtzYYqeEfpJg+kEfZdAYZV7QUzKKzyKOyY=; b=fsemaUC/TwtTkzS+x5g4xl+Evo9EGp5C+JMik2J5qnSbIERJN2zIV3vmqgx9XhdaZt p+jlGzgMArZCa6SnFWIVeciPEnDHK1Y8R8NKtKmqzOj2gzs7w+y3HrKwCwlmoeBymTDB LdRUJLP/oal9NYUDTllZcrcmU706bsc/o6mrYY+rd5L/LdcOcDpUf2fzCZayekzQxn+b q585rAgU1VSaiyD7y5vqrdfi2VTKoasYldRGpi3khzmebV2tvStOXfD8i2LgCFZtSOVL W2TqYsVnMpO19jXxKh/PsdpsCexYjPMzoI0Hmo8eMfDwBimhgIRr293lz3gaXhvYIa1/ +kFA== X-Received: by 10.50.79.161 with SMTP id k1mr7524021igx.14.1425440336536; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t41sm2193205ioi.0.2015.03.03.19.38.55 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:38:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54F67E42.4090304@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:38:42 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheng Jiang , Brian E Carpenter , Hannes Tschofenig , "sarikaya@ieee.org" References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0552CD@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0552CD@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 09:04:00 -0800 Cc: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" , 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 03:38:59 -0000 Hi Sheng: I think you quite misinterpreted my email: I was just commenting on guessing games re what industry consortia or others may have up their sleeves (not easy to control or influence). From the numerous emails, I got the impression that "Thread" was actually spelled as "Threat". This email exchange would never have happened if it would have been another "Attic project X". Of course, all goodies re striving for convergence and for consensus apply (where discussion re relative technical merit could be viewed as competition of ideas [and what IETF often does quite liberally]). Rene On 3/3/2015 8:22 PM, Sheng Jiang wrote: >> On 04/03/2015 10:29, Rene Struik wrote: >>> Dear colleagues: >>> >>> I don't understand all the excitement here: everyone is free to draw up >>> architectural blueprints and complete designs to their liking. This can >>> be done in the attic, as company-internal project, with an industry >>> consortium, or with SDOs, such as IETF. There is no way of knowing what >>> people dream up in their attic or in a "secret" project X type of >>> effort. Or, is the fear that IETF will loose its lustre? >> No. The fear (and it has been realised many times in the past) is >> that a closed consortium will agree on and start shipping a solution >> which does not mesh well with the rest of the Internet. A liaison >> arrangement can help to avoid that. > The IETF is mainly a standardization organization. Most of efforts in IETF is for interoperation. IETF produces a bunch of open standards, no secret at all. Then every company can implementation the interface following these standards. Of course, there are many internal implementation, which does not need interoperation with other devices, and they can be closed or secret. Devices can then interoperate with each other as long as the all following the same standards. > > Consequently, the main efforts of standardization actually compromise rather than competition. It is all participators to work together towards a consensus, which most of people could live with (in which maybe everybody have something unsatisfied.) So, people are encouraged to discuss, coordinate, merge and make compromises. Working along and producing several competition solutions would NOT be good in any standardization organizations. > >> Brian >> >>> Competition (without bullying) is good and is an enticement to consider >>> solid designs and thinking outside of the >>> "we-did-this-20-years-ago-like-this-and-therefore-have-to-stick-to-this" >>> box (the flaky ones will end up with marketing and PR departments of >>> competing efforts to poke fun at). >>> >>> Best regards, Rene >>> >>> >>> On 3/3/2015 2:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>>> At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread members >>>>> since the specification is still work in progress. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider public. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of it. >>>> It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so that it >>>> can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed standards >>>> development produces bad standards. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> Ciao >>>>> Hannes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>>>>> Here is an intro document: >>>>>>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.pdf >>>>>> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive ad hoc >>>>>> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IPR >>>>>> policy. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to deal >>>>>>> with home environments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>>>>> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >>>>>> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>>>>> >>>>>> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others) >>>>>> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >>>>>> >>>>>> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >>>>>> enrollment? >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Anima mailing list >>>>>> Anima@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 6tisch-security mailing list >>>> 6tisch-security@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 From nobody Fri Mar 6 09:04:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E80A1A038C; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 21:45:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PLwMUe2HA2Ek; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 21:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29E4F1A00B0; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 21:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BTG15547; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 05:45:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 05:45:22 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.106]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:45:13 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: Rene Struik , Brian E Carpenter , Hannes Tschofenig , "sarikaya@ieee.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good Thread-Index: AQHQVf5Yt+Bbp/HXr028aaO2paWO+Z0Lg/Fw//+jYQCAAJj6YA== Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 05:45:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0553F5@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: 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6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 05:45:30 -0000 PkkgdGhpbmsgeW91IHF1aXRlIG1pc2ludGVycHJldGVkIG15IGVtYWlsOiBJIHdhcyBqdXN0IGNv bW1lbnRpbmcgb24NCj5ndWVzc2luZyBnYW1lcyByZSB3aGF0IGluZHVzdHJ5IGNvbnNvcnRpYSBv ciBvdGhlcnMgbWF5IGhhdmUgdXAgdGhlaXINCj5zbGVldmVzIChub3QgZWFzeSB0byBjb250cm9s IG9yIGluZmx1ZW5jZSkuIEZyb20gdGhlIG51bWVyb3VzIGVtYWlscywgSQ0KPmdvdCB0aGUgaW1w cmVzc2lvbiB0aGF0ICJUaHJlYWQiIHdhcyBhY3R1YWxseSBzcGVsbGVkIGFzICJUaHJlYXQiLiBU 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IEFuaW1hIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gQW5pbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYW5pbWENCj4NCj4NCj4tLQ0KPmVtYWlsOiByc3RydWlr LmV4dEBnbWFpbC5jb20gfCBTa3lwZTogcnN0cnVpaw0KPmNlbGw6ICsxICg2NDcpIDg2Ny01NjU4 IHwgVVM6ICsxICg0MTUpIDY5MC03MzYzDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Mar 6 09:04:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC9A1A0545; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:29:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ndsggMcZSJ4; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A16DF1A0A85; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.131.141] ([80.92.121.102]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LwrS8-1XR8JC31Oy-016Qay; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:28:23 +0100 Message-ID: <54F6C220.8020801@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:28:16 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rene Struik , Sheng Jiang , Brian E Carpenter , "sarikaya@ieee.org" References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0552CD@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <54F67E42.4090304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54F67E42.4090304@gmail.com> OpenPGP: id=4D776BC9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NEmrGBTiH6CF5QwE1dgrj4jU460e3HTOC" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:iVpSttWOob3laGLn4O4j8lSVC9OMRheSXVnrIG27ulJ7W1PiTd/ uqEC43bNA6y5wnQ7W5+hOnsmSMJiJ1uJm3KwDAF80lJ87OUpDGk/sZLXuOlzcIxvzTOfJ4H wyO4aCiBJs3P/FKHHHkNU551jtb21ou/3YIMaRaCZNI+GcNE34HAVJ/tcV9X4YcxKM1w2oY /6bC+MvbDIL6L5nNPw63g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 09:03:59 -0800 Cc: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" , 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:29:01 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --NEmrGBTiH6CF5QwE1dgrj4jU460e3HTOC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I agree with you, Rene, I still think it is useful to look at other work that is being done (particularly if they appear relevant to this group). With regards to the security aspects, I believe at least the following efforts appear relevant: * TR69 * OMA LWM2M * Netconf Zerotouch * Certificate management protocols like EST, CMP, etc. * IEEE 802.1AR (Maybe there are others.) Looking at those examples provides ideas about what worked well and what didn't. Ciao Hannes On 03/04/2015 04:38 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > Hi Sheng: >=20 > I think you quite misinterpreted my email: I was just commenting on > guessing games re what industry consortia or others may have up their > sleeves (not easy to control or influence). From the numerous emails, I= > got the impression that "Thread" was actually spelled as "Threat". This= > email exchange would never have happened if it would have been another > "Attic project X". >=20 > Of course, all goodies re striving for convergence and for consensus > apply (where discussion re relative technical merit could be viewed as > competition of ideas [and what IETF often does quite liberally]). >=20 > Rene >=20 > On 3/3/2015 8:22 PM, Sheng Jiang wrote: >>> On 04/03/2015 10:29, Rene Struik wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues: >>>> >>>> I don't understand all the excitement here: everyone is free to draw= up >>>> architectural blueprints and complete designs to their liking. This = can >>>> be done in the attic, as company-internal project, with an industry >>>> consortium, or with SDOs, such as IETF. There is no way of knowing >>>> what >>>> people dream up in their attic or in a "secret" project X type of >>>> effort. Or, is the fear that IETF will loose its lustre? >>> No. The fear (and it has been realised many times in the past) is >>> that a closed consortium will agree on and start shipping a solution >>> which does not mesh well with the rest of the Internet. A liaison >>> arrangement can help to avoid that. >> The IETF is mainly a standardization organization. Most of efforts in >> IETF is for interoperation. IETF produces a bunch of open standards, >> no secret at all. Then every company can implementation the interface >> following these standards. Of course, there are many internal >> implementation, which does not need interoperation with other devices,= >> and they can be closed or secret. Devices can then interoperate with >> each other as long as the all following the same standards. >> >> Consequently, the main efforts of standardization actually compromise >> rather than competition. It is all participators to work together >> towards a consensus, which most of people could live with (in which >> maybe everybody have something unsatisfied.) So, people are encouraged= >> to discuss, coordinate, merge and make compromises. Working along and >> producing several competition solutions would NOT be good in any >> standardization organizations. >> >>> Brian >>> >>>> Competition (without bullying) is good and is an enticement to consi= der >>>> solid designs and thinking outside of the >>>> "we-did-this-20-years-ago-like-this-and-therefore-have-to-stick-to-t= his" >>>> >>>> box (the flaky ones will end up with marketing and PR departments of= >>>> competing efforts to poke fun at). >>>> >>>> Best regards, Rene >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/3/2015 2:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>> On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>>>> At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread memb= ers >>>>>> since the specification is still work in progress. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider >>>>>> public. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of = it. >>>>> It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so that= it >>>>> can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed standa= rds >>>>> development produces bad standards. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>>> Ciao >>>>>> Hannes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>>>>>> Here is an intro document: >>>>>>>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.p= df >>>>>>> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive >>>>>>> ad hoc >>>>>>> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF IP= R >>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to d= eal >>>>>>>> with home environments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>>>>>> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >>>>>>> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others)= >>>>>>> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >>>>>>> enrollment? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Anima mailing list >>>>>>> Anima@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> 6tisch-security mailing list >>>>> 6tisch-security@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Anima mailing list >>> Anima@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >=20 >=20 --NEmrGBTiH6CF5QwE1dgrj4jU460e3HTOC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJU9sIgAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtAmEH/iYgv+FuR2VChBj+x2EqpIIf e7Nwc4mLa/Qg8kOjvDD7m+6nYSimmjXJva80qW/xq10iDhZw7j+FUeGpqj/aXEfr DkAuYRK+EKq8lz21gFrN0RRRV2MqsMi3TncJxqkOU/y44f3b3glN5Nf96ojZKncB AjEb4OUhN7WI8HYVglzizN1xovAv9y5AicA2so3CWUeyvOJGx56tpTpFxNeoT9mm QYa5nDc1tz3SZtXPcz/FyuuTcma2sGJ2BT6E7dHCj/gQ+p1HsIvB4drEPyfd2Zbq /qc0vkKEMBuT0GmaK5MDypVmXRiKsxNs5E7Pj0pWioKEUfyLRwY7UxEcIasv0ac= =aPYt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NEmrGBTiH6CF5QwE1dgrj4jU460e3HTOC-- From nobody Fri Mar 6 09:04:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462931A1A79; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 04:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4r-emYtF_Kub; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 04:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan33.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.42.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A11541A8773; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 04:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailscanlb0.hi.local ([10.0.44.160] helo=mailscan2.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan-g68.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YTUhW-0006OP-8S; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 12:16:26 +0000 Received: from mailscanlb0.hi.local ([10.0.44.160] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan2.extendcp.co.uk with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YTUhU-0000mA-Ac; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 12:16:26 +0000 Received: from host86-171-66-135.range86-171.btcentralplus.com ([86.171.66.135] helo=[192.168.0.6]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1YTUhM-0007WM-Kh; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 12:16:17 +0000 Message-ID: <54F8490E.2000005@gridmerge.com> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 12:16:14 +0000 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig , Rene Struik , Sheng Jiang , Brian E Carpenter , "sarikaya@ieee.org" References: <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D921776@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <6426.1422664463@sandelman.ca> <77FA386512F0D748BC7C02C36EB1106D92CC62@szxeml557-mbs.china.huawei.com> <54E7219B.6040006@gridmerge.com> <54E72846.20807@gmx.net> <54E7824A.4040906@gmail.com> <54E86F9A.8020104@gmx.net> <54E8D442.6020909@gmail.com> <54EB4F24.7030609@gmx.net> <54EE6E31.8030609@gmail.com> <54F5E2FF.4040205@gmx.net> <54F60CD2.7030001@gmail.com> <54F627D2.5090806@gmail.com> <54F6305E.8060704@gmail.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923B0552CD@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <54F67E42.4090304@gmail.com> <54F6C220.8020801@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <54F6C220.8020801@gmx.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090003090204020204000105" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 09:03:59 -0800 Cc: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" , 6tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "Hedanping \(Ana\)" , "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [Anima] (Fair) competition in pursuing ideas and dreams is good X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 12:16:32 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090003090204020204000105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The primary reason for Thread being done in a closed way is to focus on=20 the specification and implementation thereof in a tight and controlled=20 manner. ZigBee IP, which we did in conjunction with the IETF, resulted=20 in continually shifting sands as the specifications kept changing. This=20 meant it took a long time, with implementers continually having to=20 change code, retest etc. This resulted in a lengthy and drawn out=20 development which frankly we can't afford to do in Thread. Sure, there=20 are risks with this approach but the aim is to contribute back on the=20 "rough consensus and running code" basis. This is not a criticism of the = IETF at all; it is simply an approach to manage the unpredictability=20 which will naturally occur in an open development process. A liaison=20 agreement will certainly help and rest assured there are some veterans=20 involved in the Thread development who will make sure it is not too weird= =2E It's no secret that Thread is already based on a number of accepted=20 Internet standards (http://threadgroup.org/Downloads.aspx). We have=20 already successfully demonstrated Thread running in conjunction with=20 another 6LoWPAN implementation, using border routers to connect to a=20 server, with end-to-end CoAP transactions taking place. "6LoWPAN" per se = never has been, nor ever will be an interoperable standard, hence the=20 need for activities like Thread and ZigBee IP to ensure that product=20 certified as such can be interoperable. Robert On 04/03/2015 08:28, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > While I agree with you, Rene, I still think it is useful to look at > other work that is being done (particularly if they appear relevant to > this group). > > With regards to the security aspects, I believe at least the following > efforts appear relevant: > > * TR69 > * OMA LWM2M > * Netconf Zerotouch > * Certificate management protocols like EST, CMP, etc. > * IEEE 802.1AR > > (Maybe there are others.) > > Looking at those examples provides ideas about what worked well and wha= t > didn't. > > Ciao > Hannes > > On 03/04/2015 04:38 AM, Rene Struik wrote: >> Hi Sheng: >> >> I think you quite misinterpreted my email: I was just commenting on >> guessing games re what industry consortia or others may have up their >> sleeves (not easy to control or influence). From the numerous emails, = I >> got the impression that "Thread" was actually spelled as "Threat". Thi= s >> email exchange would never have happened if it would have been another= >> "Attic project X". >> >> Of course, all goodies re striving for convergence and for consensus >> apply (where discussion re relative technical merit could be viewed as= >> competition of ideas [and what IETF often does quite liberally]). >> >> Rene >> >> On 3/3/2015 8:22 PM, Sheng Jiang wrote: >>>> On 04/03/2015 10:29, Rene Struik wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> I don't understand all the excitement here: everyone is free to dra= w up >>>>> architectural blueprints and complete designs to their liking. This= can >>>>> be done in the attic, as company-internal project, with an industry= >>>>> consortium, or with SDOs, such as IETF. There is no way of knowing= >>>>> what >>>>> people dream up in their attic or in a "secret" project X type of >>>>> effort. Or, is the fear that IETF will loose its lustre? >>>> No. The fear (and it has been realised many times in the past) is >>>> that a closed consortium will agree on and start shipping a solution= >>>> which does not mesh well with the rest of the Internet. A liaison >>>> arrangement can help to avoid that. >>> The IETF is mainly a standardization organization. Most of efforts in= >>> IETF is for interoperation. IETF produces a bunch of open standards, >>> no secret at all. Then every company can implementation the interface= >>> following these standards. Of course, there are many internal >>> implementation, which does not need interoperation with other devices= , >>> and they can be closed or secret. Devices can then interoperate with >>> each other as long as the all following the same standards. >>> >>> Consequently, the main efforts of standardization actually compromise= >>> rather than competition. It is all participators to work together >>> towards a consensus, which most of people could live with (in which >>> maybe everybody have something unsatisfied.) So, people are encourage= d >>> to discuss, coordinate, merge and make compromises. Working along and= >>> producing several competition solutions would NOT be good in any >>> standardization organizations. >>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> Competition (without bullying) is good and is an enticement to cons= ider >>>>> solid designs and thinking outside of the >>>>> "we-did-this-20-years-ago-like-this-and-therefore-have-to-stick-to-= this" >>>>> >>>>> box (the flaky ones will end up with marketing and PR departments o= f >>>>> competing efforts to poke fun at). >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, Rene >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/3/2015 2:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>> On 04/03/2015 05:36, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>>>>> At the moment the specifications are only available to Thread mem= bers >>>>>>> since the specification is still work in progress. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know when it will be finalized and released to the wider >>>>>>> public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regarding the liaison I do not have an opinion about the value of= it. >>>>>> It is precisely to get access before the work is finalised, so tha= t it >>>>>> can be reviewed by all the right people. We know that closed stand= ards >>>>>> development produces bad standards. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ciao >>>>>>> Hannes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 02/26/2015 01:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>>> On 26/02/2015 10:25, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>> I know nothing about Thread, whatever and whoever it is. >>>>>>>>>> Here is an intro document: >>>>>>>>>> http://threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/events/ThreadIntro.= pdf >>>>>>>> Thanks for that. It seems to have all the downsides of secretive= >>>>>>>> ad hoc >>>>>>>> membership-based consortia, except for the upside of a RAND-RF I= PR >>>>>>>> policy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think we need to clarify here that Thread Group is formed to = deal >>>>>>>>> with home environments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Enterprise or industrial environments seem to be excluded. >>>>>>>> So far. The boundary between this and larger building services >>>>>>>> networks is pretty fuzzy, isn't it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In any case, should we (the WGs on copy, and perhaps some others= ) >>>>>>>> be asking the IAB to arrange a meaningful liaison with Thread? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Back at Hannes: is there a spec for their approach to security >>>>>>>> enrollment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Anima mailing list >>>>>>>> Anima@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 6tisch-security mailing list >>>>>> 6tisch-security@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Anima mailing list >>>> Anima@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Anima mailing list >>> Anima@ietf.org >>> 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ASJOtfGOqC0lnzVmjaksn0tiTdd9K8Epvp4dSlI7KX4HitsepNQnXRNR4g0UuEFGBmVwsKLF +bPPasA+1u0iv2+KC2ZYmDTmJURaf3LBTJOHHRwrcq1jzO/Xec6a69Ft+dkeA+uMVh/0SQcu dksHvjls+BFJ2X7o8M4hf7y+N3t4S9JV/yyO/jPi1Ieyt3Im0f9lKyTxOmzO87oXR9/p5a/h u04R1Q1LbjAoU96jHrOKb5Wo0BnQSeQdg6KbwcE2LstRwzKz60/NTMu6Ixbrd16SNNDUUnC0 5jCr8oAMsar/a5EEe6ViAAAAAAAA --------------ms090003090204020204000105-- From nobody Wed Mar 11 06:45:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7AD1AC429; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 06:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TNdiDd_GZmtb; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 06:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22d.google.com (mail-ig0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C2C51AC434; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 06:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igkb16 with SMTP id b16so39829929igk.1; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 06:45:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Wu37e0lsD2S92uUYL2foTpC+SlmpacvxpMOj7uv+WuM=; b=t7QZO0necQuVpjDzR48woX9rOqLfJNpkSOslpO9KSczLjOWwXIQrfKGfwvDhVGySAn 7fMJyyt6dsb/4hnKk/ODbSzCmcYpjK/nF1wu9ZxvrBPf0o+32txuGA4J9bVRT37LCmzf K4wdMwAUp5HX07gISxqpXZdbIi/aHvTs+UKbJuoFqk4rOXf4GSRHAavZw1TeZo3x2PMz 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[99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b1sm9976869igl.7.2015.03.11.06.45.33 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Mar 2015 06:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <550046F9.4040007@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:45:29 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and products X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:45:38 -0000 Dear Pascal: As requested, please find below some pointers to cryptographic support for public key operations in industry specifications and products. Some standards and specifications that include public key support: ZigBee IP, ISA SP100, ICAO ePassport, EMVCo chipcards, Connected vehicles (IEEE 1609.2, etc.), IEEE 802.11/Wifi Alliance, PIV access control card (FIPS 201, etc.), CoRE/Coap Some chipsets: http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8923S-CryptoAuth-ATECC508A-Datasheet-Summary.pdf http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc2538.pdf Reference to any external standard or any external product does not indicate endorsement hereof or vouching for security claims. There are thousands of academic papers on implementation of symmetric and public key crypto on small devices, including hundreds on more exotic - to mainstream audience - techniques on squeezing crypto on smaller and smaller devices (so-called light-weight cryptography). For those interested in a US DARPA initiative to create a complete anti-cloning solution (including crypto, antenna, packaging) for a penny, see http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2014/02/24.aspx. Some of these aspects were discussed on the 6TiSCH security calls, most recently on the Feb 24, 2015 call: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00489.html I hope this helps. It should at least provide some evidence that cryptographic components are fast reaching commodity status. Final note: of course, there is still plenty of room to use crypto unwisely/imprudently. That is why people like me do not have to be idle. Best regards, Rene -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 From nobody Wed Mar 11 07:00:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAD41ACD0A; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 07:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p7Za3vj-hPU1; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 07:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F2F21ACD21; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9369; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1426082444; x=1427292044; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=sLvI54Z7A2RQxNvQQQ3IQ7GB+b3CflNCVuzKHiml3/o=; b=gn+1xrm6c6t84TD2+30E8M9zPmppxfHDFD1HbrTli7MB68iNXp+aN+0m 3RaEEu5y+lV0P2FGU4V1j/ybM8MAv9Us+hd3AQdiYiG38Zn0A6sW9fKBZ lYADy1eKjkl5LwF48RYzD3iwMqbixB/TvnXYo+JJtuZOlfbcmqByKEJ19 g=; X-Files: smime.p7s : 4831 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DZBwD8SQBV/4wNJK1ZA4MGUloEwRABEIItDIUlSQKBN00BAQEBAQF8hA8BAQECAgEBAWsXBAIBCA4DBAEBCx0HAh8GCxQJCAIEARIIAQUNiAADEQ3CZg2FKAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReLF4JEJoEiEAIBHhYLEgUGC4IcTR2BFgWKRIJAgxeBZoEuhH+BS4EZgyiJIYYUI4NubwGBQ38BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,382,1422921600"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="130999897" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2015 14:00:43 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t2BE0gvc002575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:00:42 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.110]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:00:42 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Rene Struik , "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and products Thread-Index: AQHQXAGrkTm0KXNCFU63f5Uf92o8j50XTwqw Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:00:42 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:00:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <550046F9.4040007@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <550046F9.4040007@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.49.80.27] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01D05C0B.F1F86D50" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and products X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:00:46 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01D05C0B.F1F86D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Ren=E9! This is very helpful : ) Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rene Struik > Sent: mercredi 11 mars 2015 14:45 > To: 6tisch@ietf.org; tisch-security > Subject: [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and products >=20 > Dear Pascal: >=20 > As requested, please find below some pointers to cryptographic support = for > public key operations in industry specifications and products. >=20 > Some standards and specifications that include public key support: > ZigBee IP, ISA SP100, ICAO ePassport, EMVCo chipcards, Connected = vehicles > (IEEE 1609.2, etc.), IEEE 802.11/Wifi Alliance, PIV access control = card (FIPS 201, > etc.), CoRE/Coap >=20 > Some chipsets: > http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8923S-CryptoAuth-ATECC508A- > Datasheet-Summary.pdf > http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc2538.pdf >=20 > Reference to any external standard or any external product does not indicate > endorsement hereof or vouching for security claims. >=20 > There are thousands of academic papers on implementation of symmetric = and > public key crypto on small devices, including hundreds on more exotic = - to > mainstream audience - techniques on squeezing crypto on smaller and smaller > devices (so-called light-weight cryptography). For those interested in = a US > DARPA initiative to create a complete anti-cloning solution (including crypto, > antenna, packaging) for a penny, see > http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2014/02/24.aspx. >=20 > Some of these aspects were discussed on the 6TiSCH security calls, = most > recently on the Feb 24, 2015 call: > = http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00489.htm= l >=20 > I hope this helps. It should at least provide some evidence that cryptographic > components are fast reaching commodity status. >=20 > Final note: of course, there is still plenty of room to use crypto > unwisely/imprudently. That is why people like me do not have to be = idle. >=20 > Best regards, Rene >=20 > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch mailing list > 6tisch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01D05C0B.F1F86D50 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIOLTCCBDYw ggMeoAMCAQICAQEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwbzELMAkGA1UEBhMCU0UxFDASBgNVBAoTC0FkZFRy dXN0IEFCMSYwJAYDVQQLEx1BZGRUcnVzdCBFeHRlcm5hbCBUVFAgTmV0d29yazEiMCAGA1UEAxMZ QWRkVHJ1c3QgRXh0ZXJuYWwgQ0EgUm9vdDAeFw0wMDA1MzAxMDQ4MzhaFw0yMDA1MzAxMDQ4Mzha MG8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlNFMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtBZGRUcnVzdCBBQjEmMCQGA1UECxMdQWRkVHJ1c3Qg RXh0ZXJuYWwgVFRQIE5ldHdvcmsxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUFkZFRydXN0IEV4dGVybmFsIENBIFJvb3Qw 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GwOi3salSpFiKLLU77Jh+yhIYwCMDnnwCYsE7tofHz8pQAzG+QAAAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01D05C0B.F1F86D50-- From nobody Wed Mar 11 15:23:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68C71A892C for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yp4iZPMcyhBD for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6037C1A8909 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdbfl12 with SMTP id fl12so14534517pdb.9 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=4rlBfYiifcUal20GjTEcpI97oWBdnuJ8qGXGm3XtxVY=; b=b0C9CR/zt+vORKsWUAYIe7R/GkdWQJZOoSHerLSY1FSA+jAdNA1itEtpZm//VzBKl6 0JOQeyVCqt63NLrI9cvFSTVR+8mig0FVyjLS8pEw+bq9df9Hlprv2T2CRFH11llgniWT V/S7oFvnXdMV8X2jq+9irKORQtqiaq8RmYPcIC9xJJonGrOSd+KaSI4SgLVyOloz9gYg Nv0O1pvCEWtJYwFlsYPSn6VD5RkSDGSVcMdspRobWaWbk+X2tU008lP0qO+4oPWE5Omz xJnrYxqr0UpO7vIOixQQVnyk7rikQYkeHvj/r1qKQzV6AbJyAdHZRAosM3lcxx6Q9QUX fWWw== X-Gm-Message-State: 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[128.32.32.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j5sm7602388pdo.60.2015.03.11.15.23.45 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5500C074.9010500@berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:23:48 -0700 From: Kris Pister User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 6tisch-security@ietf.org References: <550046F9.4040007@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060402050506080002010808" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and products X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:23:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060402050506080002010808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What would really be useful is a more technical summary of how public key is being used in these various standards. What curve(s) does Bluetooth use? isa100? What protocols? ECDH, ECDSA, MQV, X.5o9 certs, ...? What are the packet sizes? Are they compressing the certificates? If so how? ksjp On 3/11/2015 7:00 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > Thanks Ren! > > This is very helpful : ) > > Pascal > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rene Struik >> Sent: mercredi 11 mars 2015 14:45 >> To: 6tisch@ietf.org; tisch-security >> Subject: [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and > products >> Dear Pascal: >> >> As requested, please find below some pointers to cryptographic support for >> public key operations in industry specifications and products. >> >> Some standards and specifications that include public key support: >> ZigBee IP, ISA SP100, ICAO ePassport, EMVCo chipcards, Connected vehicles >> (IEEE 1609.2, etc.), IEEE 802.11/Wifi Alliance, PIV access control card > (FIPS 201, >> etc.), CoRE/Coap >> >> Some chipsets: >> http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8923S-CryptoAuth-ATECC508A- >> Datasheet-Summary.pdf >> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc2538.pdf >> >> Reference to any external standard or any external product does not > indicate >> endorsement hereof or vouching for security claims. >> >> There are thousands of academic papers on implementation of symmetric and >> public key crypto on small devices, including hundreds on more exotic - to >> mainstream audience - techniques on squeezing crypto on smaller and > smaller >> devices (so-called light-weight cryptography). For those interested in a > US >> DARPA initiative to create a complete anti-cloning solution (including > crypto, >> antenna, packaging) for a penny, see >> http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2014/02/24.aspx. >> >> Some of these aspects were discussed on the 6TiSCH security calls, most >> recently on the Feb 24, 2015 call: >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00489.html >> >> I hope this helps. It should at least provide some evidence that > cryptographic >> components are fast reaching commodity status. >> >> Final note: of course, there is still plenty of room to use crypto >> unwisely/imprudently. That is why people like me do not have to be idle. >> >> Best regards, Rene >> >> -- >> email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik >> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tisch mailing list >> 6tisch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 6tisch-security mailing list >> 6tisch-security@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch-security --------------060402050506080002010808 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What would really be useful is a more technical summary of how public key
is being used in these various standards.
What curve(s) does Bluetooth use? isa100?
What protocols? ECDH, ECDSA, MQV, X.5o9 certs, ...?
What are the packet sizes? Are they compressing the certificates? If so how?

ksjp

On 3/11/2015 7:00 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
Thanks Ren!

This is very helpful : )

Pascal


-----Original Message-----
From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rene Struik
Sent: mercredi 11 mars 2015 14:45
To: 6tisch@ietf.org; tisch-security
Subject: [6tisch] some pointers to public-key crypto in standards and

products

Dear Pascal:

As requested, please find below some pointers to cryptographic support for
public key operations in industry specifications and products.

Some standards and specifications that include public key support:
ZigBee IP, ISA SP100, ICAO ePassport, EMVCo chipcards, Connected vehicles
(IEEE 1609.2, etc.), IEEE 802.11/Wifi Alliance, PIV access control card

(FIPS 201,

etc.), CoRE/Coap

Some chipsets:
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8923S-CryptoAuth-ATECC508A-
Datasheet-Summary.pdf
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc2538.pdf

Reference to any external standard or any external product does not

indicate

endorsement hereof or vouching for security claims.

There are thousands of academic papers on implementation of symmetric and
public key crypto on small devices, including hundreds on more exotic - to
mainstream audience - techniques on squeezing crypto on smaller and

smaller

devices (so-called light-weight cryptography). For those interested in a

US

DARPA initiative to create a complete anti-cloning solution (including

crypto,

antenna, packaging) for a penny, see
http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2014/02/24.aspx.

Some of these aspects were discussed on the 6TiSCH security calls, most
recently on the Feb 24, 2015 call:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/6tisch-security/current/msg00489.html

I hope this helps. It should at least provide some evidence that

cryptographic

components are fast reaching commodity status.

Final note: of course, there is still plenty of room to use crypto
unwisely/imprudently. That is why people like me do not have to be idle.

Best regards, Rene

--
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch



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--------------060402050506080002010808-- From nobody Sat Mar 14 14:29:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E711A02BE for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:28:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lA_6_uWX5KuF for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D391B1A0222 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D975E20012; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 17:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 22D8363784; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 17:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071A063770; Sat, 14 Mar 2015 17:28:51 -0400 (EDT) To: Tero Kivinen In-Reply-To: <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> References: <18210.1424319597@sandelman.ca> <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 24.4.2 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m From: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 21:28:56 -0000 Tero Kivinen wrote: >> But, we aren't using the Enhanced Beacons (they are enhanced, not >> extended, aren't they? or did I get that backwards again?) for >> production network use... > They are Enhanced Beacons, and yes you DO need them on the production > network (unless your network is completely statically configured). {sorry to reply so late...} We've been back and forth on this, and Kris seemed to suggest that EBs were just not needed for regular operation. I wonder if we have a disagreement about what is part of the "production network" -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Mon Mar 16 08:39:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4341A8869 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 08:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.569 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YdaxSONoAJgg for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 08:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.kivinen.iki.fi (fireball.kivinen.iki.fi [IPv6:2001:1bc8:100d::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 537731A885E for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 08:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id t2GFdMFm028394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:39:22 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) id t2GFdKMo027584; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:39:20 +0200 (EET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21766.63784.187251.321071@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:39:20 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: mcr@sandelman.ca In-Reply-To: <20902.1426368531@sandelman.ca> References: <18210.1424319597@sandelman.ca> <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <20902.1426368531@sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.3.1 (x86_64--netbsd) X-Edit-Time: 25 min X-Total-Time: 7 min Archived-At: Cc: 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:39:26 -0000 mcr@sandelman.ca writes: > > Tero Kivinen wrote: > >> But, we aren't using the Enhanced Beacons (they are enhanced, not > >> extended, aren't they? or did I get that backwards again?) for > >> production network use... > > > They are Enhanced Beacons, and yes you DO need them on the production > > network (unless your network is completely statically configured). > > {sorry to reply so late...} > We've been back and forth on this, and Kris seemed to suggest that EBs > were just not needed for regular operation. Actually, every time I ask this question from people who should know, I seem to be getting different answer. Sometimes they say oh, those beacons are only needed for new devices joining the network to get information of initial schedule to use. Then when I ask how do the devices get their full schedule, I usually get answer that upper layer distributes it using some unspecified method using some unspecified frames etc, i.e. by magic... > I wonder if we have a disagreement about what is part of the > "production network" Or as they do not realy have TSCH networks set up at all, there is no general answer for that. If I understood correctly in the WirelessHART this was done using some proprietary upper layer protocol. -- kivinen@iki.fi From nobody Mon Mar 16 10:01:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CF01A8862 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPTbomEsivJ6 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p01c12o148.mxlogic.net (p01c12o148.mxlogic.net [208.65.145.71]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75F521A1B2E for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [12.218.215.72] (EHLO smtpauth1.linear.com) by p01c12o148.mxlogic.net(mxl_mta-8.2.0-3) with ESMTP id 47c07055.0.7408.00-280.20202.p01c12o148.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:01:41 -0600 (MDT) X-MXL-Hash: 55070c751605f92c-bee71919e2f2d11ad2180587e8082123bba65f54 Received: from jsimonmacmini.engineering.linear.com (unknown [10.70.48.25]) by smtpauth1.linear.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3865A740B0 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Simon Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_59A136A8-5D4E-4375-BA51-B32A267E9AD8"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:01:23 -0700 References: <7119C213-46F5-4719-917B-3B65048D3124@gmail.com> To: tisch-security <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Message-Id: <34C57301-347F-4172-997D-A95330BA803D@linear.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.1 cv=a7Ak9CiF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=glloKNylpeYNumXQcclYyA==] X-AnalysisOut: [:117 a=glloKNylpeYNumXQcclYyA==:17 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=MqD] X-AnalysisOut: [INYqSAAAA:8 a=YlVTAMxIAAAA:8 a=emO1SXQWCLwA:10 a=48vgC7mUA] X-AnalysisOut: [AAA:8 a=SyYMxH9GAAAA:8 a=dn-y187_zdayYDDtkS0A:9 a=pILNOxqG] X-AnalysisOut: [KmIA:10 a=NPI4PQ6hFa3hbkAUJZsA:9 a=ZVk8-NSrHBgA:10] X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000; CM=0.500; MH=0.500(2015031610); S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [12.218.215.72] Archived-At: Subject: [6tisch-security] Fwd: WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:01:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_59A136A8-5D4E-4375-BA51-B32A267E9AD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Linear has 1000=92s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of the = standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since 802.15.4e = was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove what was = thought of as =93upper layer=94 behavior. So we have minimal primitives = to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, link, and slotframe = information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, timing feedback through = enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives and to assign MAC properties = by a Management layer (the MLME), but we don=92t have a general 4e = mechanism for assigning slotframes and links over the air. The intent = was the EBs are used for initial synchronization and temporary joining = link assignment, but that the =93full" link/slotframe configuration is = left to a higher layer to deal with, i.e. there needs to be an = application layer that defines the protocol - we use data frames and = basically reuse the IE format from the EB in our application layer. = 6TiSCH is proposing to use CoAP. --=20 Jonathan Simon On Mar 16, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote: > mcr@sandelman.ca writes: >>=20 >> Tero Kivinen wrote: >>>> But, we aren't using the Enhanced Beacons (they are enhanced, not >>>> extended, aren't they? or did I get that backwards again?) for >>>> production network use... >>=20 >>> They are Enhanced Beacons, and yes you DO need them on the = production >>> network (unless your network is completely statically configured). >>=20 >> {sorry to reply so late...} >> We've been back and forth on this, and Kris seemed to suggest that = EBs >> were just not needed for regular operation. >=20 > Actually, every time I ask this question from people who should know, > I seem to be getting different answer. Sometimes they say oh, those > beacons are only needed for new devices joining the network to get > information of initial schedule to use. Then when I ask how do the > devices get their full schedule, I usually get answer that upper layer > distributes it using some unspecified method using some unspecified > frames etc, i.e. by magic... >=20 >> I wonder if we have a disagreement about what is part of the >> "production network" >=20 > Or as they do not realy have TSCH networks set up at all, there is no > general answer for that. If I understood correctly in the WirelessHART > this was done using some proprietary upper layer protocol.=20 > --=20 > kivinen@iki.fi >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch-security mailing list > 6tisch-security@ietf.org > = http://cp.mcafee.com/d/5fHCN8p43qb2rzWtSn7ztPqbwVBcSyUepvdEK3zhOyCOqejrzPP= Pz5XCN6ABqM1hYEvIundDOx-NVsTtAQsKKnvvW_8zD64NPDnKnjpppVdZ5cQsIcsJteOaqJNP_= axVZicHs3jq9J4TvAn3hOYyyODtUTsSjDdqymokWnPtU03wCHIcfBisEeRNOsGm9BWvpKcFBzr= AVkIjbQ-Pspjb5O5mUm-waBYTu00CTS4kjobZ8Qg6BJOsGm9BWvpKcFBziWq8052gl4zh0KHY9= Qd45o6y1OsGm9BWvpKcFBzrX1K-CJG4Xz --Apple-Mail=_59A136A8-5D4E-4375-BA51-B32A267E9AD8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIBiDCCAYQw ggEpoAMCAQICAwHiQDAKBggqhkjOPQQDAjBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20wHhcNMTUwMTA5MTgy NjI1WhcNMTYwMTA5MTgyNjI1WjBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20wWTATBgcqhkjOPQIBBggqhkjO PQMBBwNCAATk/cMZz8sYhwIeYQWKBOA1zFbrDsjl0a5uqUYpxynjUFbFHLOA0gcED6decefxLYey x5t84Quh52wqaBUr0CSBMAoGCCqGSM49BAMCA0kAMEYCIQCG7qwBSE/rQXufjLpOuqNilQUYUh1V 6XNYeffT+nJktgIhAI30apRItPgMa3uHhgbQ9Np10J7wgKERpgcXWruQguUDMYIB3zCCAdsCAQEw UTBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJ ARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20CAwHiQDAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBIzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNTAzMTYxNzAxMjRaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTr mOXtMR4q5CTO4YU1Yrb/fpVZYjBgBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxUzBRMEoxGTAXBgNVBAMMEEpvbmF0aGFu IFNpbW9uIDExCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFqc2ltb25AbGluZWFyLmNvbQID AeJAMGIGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMVOgUTBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYD VQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20CAwHiQDAJBgcqhkjOPQIB BEYwRAIgYMd67A2i3+5kg6PFlTvRTk5OzOPLgRlUDch5KnLWeQoCICO3ShCCaD+S+jyhbTg3V30E m+Od8i1SIynuilLBXAP+AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_59A136A8-5D4E-4375-BA51-B32A267E9AD8-- From nobody Tue Mar 17 03:58:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6411A0266 for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 03:58:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.131 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.131 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jvpKPZH46pfd for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 03:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.kivinen.iki.fi (fireball.kivinen.iki.fi [IPv6:2001:1bc8:100d::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 963821A0235 for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 03:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id t2HAwOKe005243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:58:24 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.kivinen.iki.fi (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) id t2HAwOYe009911; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:58:24 +0200 (EET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <21768.2256.179903.528390@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:58:24 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: Jonathan Simon In-Reply-To: <7119C213-46F5-4719-917B-3B65048D3124@gmail.com> References: <18210.1424319597@sandelman.ca> <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <20902.1426368531@sandelman.ca> <21766.63784.187251.321071@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <7119C213-46F5-4719-917B-3B65048D3124@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.3.1 (x86_64--netbsd) X-Edit-Time: 20 min X-Total-Time: 5 min Archived-At: Cc: mcr@sandelman.ca, 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:58:32 -0000 Jonathan Simon writes: > Linear has 1000=E2=80=99s of TSCH networks running, and I was an auth= or of > the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since > 802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove > what was thought of as =E2=80=9Cupper layer=E2=80=9D behavior. So we= have minimal > primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, > link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, > timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives > and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but > we don=E2=80=99t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes= and > links over the air. The intent was the EBs are used for initial > synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the > =E2=80=9Cfull" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer= to > deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines > the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format > from the EB in our application layer. 6TiSCH is proposing to use > CoAP. But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for every time they send frames. Also EB frames are something that can be used for time syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing. So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only for joining devices. On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what it will be using... But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are used in production network or not... --=20 kivinen@iki.fi From nobody Tue Mar 17 06:59:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BFD1A1A2E; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6jEi2-isZ4Z; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x229.google.com (mail-ig0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85E1A1A1A0C; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igcqo1 with SMTP id qo1so12235081igc.0; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=+UGs2wSZyU0o3lkJfxXWu6dFcQWYGmGZ18beDhtfuF0=; b=aSHmIGhjJ20c+JJKI/Rd19iOVdMvWDOc9+NoviHcZcA716+US2AuV/CNjfSL1Q8R3v 12vARzxQ+9wZuRPpHFQ73vG3QWPnXlBacZaMEMFsksXfYq4Ib7XTAbFrzUPgvo8cEoNk 54cocWF7OaotL7bpjykB9WRH7h+DF6oEyWYcIGBsBToWja975lnlmwiNLO6jkO0LpGZi JxwiBQ4qr/ZXHCRhPfCx/xUYGiI0yiQsIbMPKdiLDMnCCpVbJGdqFxbdf+ezbnOjDCZI 4WYZ0DzHd3SkSGPtG1Y9X9f96ZnOh6NNYYrosqdEu0h807Z30oSRaHm7INnyRJogXcS2 gcFA== X-Received: by 10.50.126.6 with SMTP id mu6mr24994070igb.4.1426600776972; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (CPE7cb21b2cb904-CM7cb21b2cb901.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ha4sm1135052igb.21.2015.03.17.06.59.36 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5508333B.7000809@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:59:23 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tero Kivinen , Jonathan Simon References: <18210.1424319597@sandelman.ca> <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <20902.1426368531@sandelman.ca> <21766.63784.187251.321071@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <7119C213-46F5-4719-917B-3B65048D3124@gmail.com> <21768.2256.179903.528390@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <21768.2256.179903.528390@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000905010602020401080207" Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, mcr@sandelman.ca, 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 13:59:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000905010602020401080207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear colleagues: FYI - there is no such thing as a production network vs. join network: there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, Item #5, pp. 3-4 of draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part of which is excerpted here: This does not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate PAN, though, since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a single destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which implies that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN (802.15.4-2011 does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). This also implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to designate frames for "join" purposes or other special uses (as Wireless HART seems to do with enhanced beacon frames). Best regards, Rene On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote: > Jonathan Simon writes: >> Linear has 1000’s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of >> the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since >> 802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove >> what was thought of as “upper layer” behavior. So we have minimal >> primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, >> link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, >> timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives >> and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but >> we don’t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes and >> links over the air. The intent was the EBs are used for initial >> synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the >> “full" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to >> deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines >> the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format >> from the EB in our application layer. 6TiSCH is proposing to use >> CoAP. > But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which > are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus > they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are > such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for > every time they send frames. > > Also EB frames are something that can be used for time > syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending > beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing. > > So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only > for joining devices. > > On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full > link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what > it will be using... > > But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the > draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we > have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are > used in production network or not... -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------000905010602020401080207 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear colleagues:

FYI - there is no such thing as a production network vs. join network: there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, Item #5, pp. 3-4 of draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part of which is excerpted here:
This does not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate PAN, though, since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a single destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which implies that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN (802.15.4-2011 does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). This also implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to designate frames for "join" purposes or other special uses (as Wireless HART seems to do with enhanced beacon frames).
Best regards, Rene

On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote:
Jonathan Simon writes:

Linear has 1000’s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of
the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since
802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove
what was thought of as “upper layer” behavior.  So we have minimal
primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence,
link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons,
timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives
and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but
we don’t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes and
links over the air.  The intent was the EBs are used for initial
synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the
“full" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to
deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines
the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format
from the EB in our application layer.  6TiSCH is proposing to use
CoAP.

But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which
are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus
they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are
such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for
every time they send frames.

Also EB frames are something that can be used for time
syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending
beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing.

So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only
for joining devices.

On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full
link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what
it will be using...

But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the
draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we
have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are
used in production network or not...



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------000905010602020401080207-- From nobody Tue Mar 17 09:56:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FC01A878A for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:55:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QfKsla6UJxVG for <6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p02c12o143.mxlogic.net (p02c12o143.mxlogic.net [208.65.145.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAB261A875B for <6tisch-security@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [12.218.215.72] (EHLO smtpauth1.linear.com) by p02c12o143.mxlogic.net(mxl_mta-8.2.0-3) with ESMTP id c9c58055.0.40957.00-349.115767.p02c12o143.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:55:58 -0600 (MDT) X-MXL-Hash: 55085c9e651db9a3-43411f9f2f6dabf598a0205f3fc1e9f275d20365 Received: from jsimonmacmini.engineering.linear.com (unknown [10.70.48.25]) by smtpauth1.linear.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E1953741EC; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C984E217-FF15-4FB7-B726-AC91A70E5D36"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Jonathan Simon In-Reply-To: <21768.2256.179903.528390@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:55:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3DDB8524-ACBE-48A4-9921-7D938338AE18@linear.com> References: <18210.1424319597@sandelman.ca> <21739.16609.214466.57257@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <20902.1426368531@sandelman.ca> <21766.63784.187251.321071@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> <7119C213-46F5-4719-917B-3B65048D3124@gmail.com> <21768.2256.179903.528390@fireball.kivinen.iki.fi> To: Tero Kivinen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.1 cv=T/uYTp6Q c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=glloKNylpeYNumXQcclYyA==] X-AnalysisOut: [:117 a=glloKNylpeYNumXQcclYyA==:17 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=MqD] X-AnalysisOut: [INYqSAAAA:8 a=YlVTAMxIAAAA:8 a=emO1SXQWCLwA:10 a=dH66C_dMG] X-AnalysisOut: [JYPvvTxNhQA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=NPI4PQ6hFa3hbkAUJZsA:9 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=ZVk8-NSrHBgA:10] X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000; CM=0.500; MH=0.500(2015031710); S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [12.218.215.72] Archived-At: Cc: Michael Richardson , 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:55:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C984E217-FF15-4FB7-B726-AC91A70E5D36 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Mar 17, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote: > Jonathan Simon writes: >> Linear has 1000=92s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of >> the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since >> 802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove >> what was thought of as =93upper layer=94 behavior. So we have = minimal >> primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, >> link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, >> timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives >> and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but >> we don=92t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes and >> links over the air. The intent was the EBs are used for initial >> synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the >> =93full" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to >> deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines >> the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format >> from the EB in our application layer. 6TiSCH is proposing to use >> CoAP. >=20 > But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which > are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus > they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are > such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for > every time they send frames. JS - Once you lose synchronization, you=92re no longer in the network, = since without time link layer security fails.=20 > Also EB frames are something that can be used for time > syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending > beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing. JS - Yes this is true, but normally the EBs used to solicit new nodes = uses different link-layer keys than you would use =93in-network.=94 = TSCH is a little weird in that it uses EBs, but is considered a = non-beaconing PAN, because all communication isn=92t managed by beacons, = only initial synchronization. >=20 > So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only > for joining devices. JS - They could. In our networks we put EB=92s on a schedule that = admitted nodes don=92t listen to, and only send EB=92s with a pre-shared = link key.=20 >=20 > On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full > link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what > it will be using... >=20 > But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the > draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we > have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are > used in production network or not... > --=20 > kivinen@iki.fi --Apple-Mail=_C984E217-FF15-4FB7-B726-AC91A70E5D36 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIBiDCCAYQw ggEpoAMCAQICAwHiQDAKBggqhkjOPQQDAjBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20wHhcNMTUwMTA5MTgy NjI1WhcNMTYwMTA5MTgyNjI1WjBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20wWTATBgcqhkjOPQIBBggqhkjO PQMBBwNCAATk/cMZz8sYhwIeYQWKBOA1zFbrDsjl0a5uqUYpxynjUFbFHLOA0gcED6decefxLYey x5t84Quh52wqaBUr0CSBMAoGCCqGSM49BAMCA0kAMEYCIQCG7qwBSE/rQXufjLpOuqNilQUYUh1V 6XNYeffT+nJktgIhAI30apRItPgMa3uHhgbQ9Np10J7wgKERpgcXWruQguUDMYIB4TCCAd0CAQEw UTBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJ ARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20CAwHiQDAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBIzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNTAzMTcxNjU1MzlaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRD cRIgw96NT1GxdkIKrf6MNLA5aDBgBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxUzBRMEoxGTAXBgNVBAMMEEpvbmF0aGFu IFNpbW9uIDExCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFqc2ltb25AbGluZWFyLmNvbQID AeJAMGIGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMVOgUTBKMRkwFwYDVQQDDBBKb25hdGhhbiBTaW1vbiAxMQswCQYD VQQGEwJVUzEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRanNpbW9uQGxpbmVhci5jb20CAwHiQDAJBgcqhkjOPQIB BEgwRgIhAJuDxOJo05fv4JavmHRW2YtkQuDxt6KxhLYN8tnlKMseAiEA3jnWtMtt8LNW0qz0mQDx cYvF16AA50tcZGBORYVJhVQAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_C984E217-FF15-4FB7-B726-AC91A70E5D36-- From nobody Wed Mar 18 00:16:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEEB1A00E1; 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Wed, 18 Mar 2015 02:16:33 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Rene Struik , Tero Kivinen , Jonathan Simon Thread-Topic: [6tisch] [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security Thread-Index: AdBhSw48Fqhq6dMGSiWSrxAe1+LTCA== Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 07:16:32 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 07:16:00 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.210.167] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01D06153.A3816350" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, "mcr@sandelman.ca" , "6tisch-security@ietf.org" <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [6tisch] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 07:16:40 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01D06153.A3816350 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01D06153.A3816350" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01D06153.A3816350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Ren=C3=A9: =20 OTOH, we can introduce our own terms if we find them useful. But then we = must agree on the definition before we use the term, else = misunderstandings will follow.=20 As it goes, key separation effectively segregates wireless networks = efficiently, even if a same pan id is being used.=20 We could define one or more production networks as separate entities, = each with different keys and time slots, so they do not overlap between = one another and with the network that is used for joining devices.=20 Based on the result of the join, the device would be redirected to the = production network that is indicated to it, by using the schedule as = well as the key that is obtained during the join. One value of that model is that the joining devices do not interfere = with the running network. =20 Cheers, =20 Pascal =20 From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rene Struik Sent: mardi 17 mars 2015 14:59 To: Tero Kivinen; Jonathan Simon Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org; mcr@sandelman.ca; 6tisch-security@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6tisch] [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security =20 Dear colleagues:=20 FYI - there is no such thing as a production network vs. join network: = there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, Item #5, pp. 3-4 of = draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part of = which is excerpted here: This does not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate PAN, = though, since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a single = destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which implies = that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN (802.15.4-2011 = does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). This also = implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to designate frames = for "join" purposes or other special uses (as Wireless HART seems to do = with enhanced beacon frames). Best regards, Rene On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote: Jonathan Simon writes: Linear has 1000=E2=80=99s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author = of the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since 802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove what was thought of as =E2=80=9Cupper layer=E2=80=9D behavior. So we = have minimal primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but we don=E2=80=99t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes = and links over the air. The intent was the EBs are used for initial synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the =E2=80=9Cfull" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format from the EB in our application layer. 6TiSCH is proposing to use CoAP. =20 But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for every time they send frames. =20 Also EB frames are something that can be used for time syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing. =20 So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only for joining devices. =20 On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what it will be using... =20 But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are used in production network or not... --=20 email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01D06153.A3816350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Ren=C3=A9:

 

OTOH, we can introduce our own terms if we find them useful. But then = we must agree on the definition before we use the term, else = misunderstandings will follow.

As it goes, key separation effectively segregates wireless networks = efficiently, even if a same pan id is being used. =

We could define one or more production networks as separate entities, = each with different keys and time slots, so they do not overlap between = one another and with the network that is used for joining devices. =

Based on the result of the join, the device would be redirected to = the production network that is indicated to it, by using the schedule as = well as the key that is obtained during the = join.

One value of that model is that the joining devices do not interfere = with the running network.

 

Cheers,

 

Pascal

 

 

Dear = colleagues:

FYI - there is no such thing as a production network = vs. join network: there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, = Item #5, pp. 3-4 of = draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part of = which is excerpted here:

This does = not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate PAN, though, = since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a single = destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which implies = that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN (802.15.4-2011 = does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). This = also implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to designate = frames for "join" purposes or other special uses (as Wireless = HART seems to do with enhanced beacon frames).

Best regards, Rene

On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero = Kivinen wrote:

Jonathan Simon =
writes:
Linear has =
1000=E2=80=99s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author =
of
the standard so I can speak to this - the =
background is that since
802.15.4e was a MAC =
amendment, there was a lot of pressure to =
remove
what was thought of as =E2=80=9Cupper =
layer=E2=80=9D behavior.  So we have =
minimal
primitives to send synchronization, =
timeslot, hopping sequence,
link, and slotframe =
information over the air using Enhanced =
Beacons,
timing feedback through enhanced =
acknowledgements, and primitives
and to assign MAC =
properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but
we =
don=E2=80=99t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes =
and
links over the air.  The intent was the =
EBs are used for initial
synchronization and =
temporary joining link assignment, but that =
the
=E2=80=9Cfull" link/slotframe =
configuration is left to a higher layer to
deal =
with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that =
defines
the protocol - we use data frames and =
basically reuse the IE format
from the EB in our =
application layer.  6TiSCH is proposing to =
use
CoAP.
&nb=
sp;
But there might also be nodes which only use shared =
slots, and which
are mostly sleeping, thus might =
not keep track of time exactly, thus
they might =
benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or =
are
such devices always assumed to be joining and =
leaving the network for
every time they send =
frames.
 
Also EB frames =
are something that can be used for =
time
syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent =
happens to be sending
beacons, you can listen to =
them and stay in sync with the =
timing.
 
So I would =
think EBs do have use in production network too, not =
only
for joining =
devices.
 
On the other =
hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the =
full
link/slotframe configuration is not yet =
defined, we do not know what
it will be =
using...
 
But your =
explanation helped a lot, and reading =
the
draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but =
in general before we
have the upper layer protocol =
defined we cannot say whether EBs are
used in =
production network or not...



-- =

email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: =
rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) =
690-7363
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6tisch-security@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FF1A0171; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 06:30:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yFDX76Goiu0C; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 06:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22d.google.com (mail-ig0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 104911A00E9; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 06:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igcau2 with SMTP id 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[99.231.49.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i1sm1700822igh.5.2015.03.18.06.30.16 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Mar 2015 06:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55097DDA.3050200@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:30:02 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , Tero Kivinen , Jonathan Simon References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020204090409000309070303" Archived-At: Cc: "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, "mcr@sandelman.ca" , "6tisch-security@ietf.org" <6tisch-security@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [6tisch-security] [6tisch] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security X-BeenThere: 6tisch-security@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Extended Design Team for 6TiSCH security architecture <6tisch-security.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:30:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020204090409000309070303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Pascal: Indeed, one can define one's own terms. {One note of caution, though: there seem to be lots of misconception on how PANs operate, so any definition of own terms should not make these misconceptions even larger.} I do not entirely understand the detailed mechanics of how what you describe below would easily allow a "hot swap" or "hot placement" deployment scenarios. When a device joins a network, it will communicate to the nodes in this network via a neighbor node (aka JA) that is in this (operational) network. Some potentially useful notes on joining, join properties, and flexibility of joining, see draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 that I posted January 8th (in particular Section 1.3.2, items 7-12). We can discuss more in Dallas. Best regards, Rene On 3/18/2015 3:16 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > Hello René: > > OTOH, we can introduce our own terms if we find them useful. But then > we must agree on the definition before we use the term, else > misunderstandings will follow. > > As it goes, key separation effectively segregates wireless networks > efficiently, even if a same pan id is being used. > > We could define one or more production networks as separate entities, > each with different keys and time slots, so they do not overlap > between one another and with the network that is used for joining > devices. > > Based on the result of the join, the device would be redirected to the > production network that is indicated to it, by using the schedule as > well as the key that is obtained during the join. > > One value of that model is that the joining devices do not interfere > with the running network. > > Cheers, > > Pascal > > *From:*6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Rene Struik > *Sent:* mardi 17 mars 2015 14:59 > *To:* Tero Kivinen; Jonathan Simon > *Cc:* 6tisch@ietf.org ; mcr@sandelman.ca > ; 6tisch-security@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [6tisch] [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security > > Dear colleagues: > > FYI - there is no such thing as a production network vs. join network: > there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, Item #5, pp. 3-4 > of draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part > of which is excerpted here: > > This does not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate > PAN, though, since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a > single destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which > implies that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN > (802.15.4-2011 does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). > This also implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to > designate frames for "join" purposes or other special uses (as > Wireless HART seems to do with enhanced beacon frames). > > Best regards, Rene > > On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote: > > Jonathan Simon writes: > > Linear has 1000’s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of > > the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since > > 802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove > > what was thought of as “upper layer” behavior. So we have minimal > > primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence, > > link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons, > > timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives > > and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but > > we don’t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes and > > links over the air. The intent was the EBs are used for initial > > synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the > > “full" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to > > deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines > > the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format > > from the EB in our application layer. 6TiSCH is proposing to use > > CoAP. > > > > But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which > > are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus > > they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are > > such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for > > every time they send frames. > > > > Also EB frames are something that can be used for time > > syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending > > beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing. > > > > So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only > > for joining devices. > > > > On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full > > link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what > > it will be using... > > > > But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the > > draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we > > have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are > > used in production network or not... > > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------020204090409000309070303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Pascal:

Indeed, one can define one's own terms. {One note of caution, though: there seem to be lots of misconception on how PANs operate, so any definition of own terms should not make these misconceptions even larger.}

I do not entirely understand the detailed mechanics of how what you describe below would easily allow a "hot swap" or "hot placement" deployment scenarios. When a device joins a network, it will communicate to the nodes in this network via a neighbor node (aka JA) that is in this (operational) network.

Some potentially useful notes on joining, join properties, and flexibility of joining, see draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01 that I posted January 8th (in particular Section 1.3.2, items 7-12).

We can discuss more in Dallas.

Best regards, Rene


On 3/18/2015 3:16 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:

Hello René:

 

OTOH, we can introduce our own terms if we find them useful. But then we must agree on the definition before we use the term, else misunderstandings will follow.

As it goes, key separation effectively segregates wireless networks efficiently, even if a same pan id is being used.

We could define one or more production networks as separate entities, each with different keys and time slots, so they do not overlap between one another and with the network that is used for joining devices.

Based on the result of the join, the device would be redirected to the production network that is indicated to it, by using the schedule as well as the key that is obtained during the join.

One value of that model is that the joining devices do not interfere with the running network.

 

Cheers,

 

Pascal

 

From: 6tisch [mailto:6tisch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rene Struik
Sent: mardi 17 mars 2015 14:59
To: Tero Kivinen; Jonathan Simon
Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org; mcr@sandelman.ca; 6tisch-security@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [6tisch] [6tisch-security] WGLC comments on 6tisch-security

 

Dear colleagues:

FYI - there is no such thing as a production network vs. join network: there is only one PAN. Please also see Section 1.1, Item #5, pp. 3-4 of draft-struik-6tisch-security-architectural-considerations-01, part of which is excerpted here:

This does not mean, however, that these nodes operate in a separate PAN, though, since incoming frame processing relies on filtering on a single destination PAN Identifier (see 802.15.4-2011, 5.1.6.2), which implies that the neighbor node can only be part of a single PAN (802.15.4-2011 does not know the concept of "multiple PAN instances"). This also implies that there is no mechanism within 802.15.4 to designate frames for "join" purposes or other special uses (as Wireless HART seems to do with enhanced beacon frames).

Best regards, Rene

On 3/17/2015 6:58 AM, Tero Kivinen wrote:

Jonathan Simon writes:
Linear has 1000’s of TSCH networks running, and I was an author of
the standard so I can speak to this - the background is that since
802.15.4e was a MAC amendment, there was a lot of pressure to remove
what was thought of as “upper layer” behavior.  So we have minimal
primitives to send synchronization, timeslot, hopping sequence,
link, and slotframe information over the air using Enhanced Beacons,
timing feedback through enhanced acknowledgements, and primitives
and to assign MAC properties by a Management layer (the MLME), but
we don’t have a general 4e mechanism for assigning slotframes and
links over the air.  The intent was the EBs are used for initial
synchronization and temporary joining link assignment, but that the
“full" link/slotframe configuration is left to a higher layer to
deal with, i.e. there needs to be an application layer that defines
the protocol - we use data frames and basically reuse the IE format
from the EB in our application layer.  6TiSCH is proposing to use
CoAP.
 
But there might also be nodes which only use shared slots, and which
are mostly sleeping, thus might not keep track of time exactly, thus
they might benefit from using EBs also in production network. Or are
such devices always assumed to be joining and leaving the network for
every time they send frames.
 
Also EB frames are something that can be used for time
syncronmization, i.e. if your timing parent happens to be sending
beacons, you can listen to them and stay in sync with the timing.
 
So I would think EBs do have use in production network too, not only
for joining devices.
 
On the other hand as the protocol in higher layer managing the full
link/slotframe configuration is not yet defined, we do not know what
it will be using...
 
But your explanation helped a lot, and reading the
draft-ietf-6tisch-tsch also helped a lot, but in general before we
have the upper layer protocol defined we cannot say whether EBs are
used in production network or not...



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------020204090409000309070303--