From hsalgado@nic.cl Thu Aug 1 00:02:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19CC21F9CB3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:02:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXYON5WCzf-I for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (mail.nic.cl [IPv6:2001:1398:1::6008]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AD221F8F2E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F310CC83C9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:02:14 -0400 (CLT) Received: from [172.30.14.17] (hsalgado-vpn.intra.nic.cl [172.30.14.17]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DBDCC83C8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:02:13 -0400 (CLT) Message-ID: <51FA07F4.1080601@nic.cl> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:02:12 +0200 From: Hugo Salgado User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <76F05F8F-EBE8-4C93-AA94-4AA104DC8FF9@mocana.com> <51F68FE7.3010404@labs.htt-consult.com> <51F69CDE.3070900@redhat.com> <51F6E543.7070609@labs.htt-consult.com> <51F76C00.70205@redhat.com> <1375179648.5686.5.camel@localhost> <1375265249.5862.0.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP on Thu Aug 1 03:02:14 2013 -0400 (CLT) Subject: Re: [87attendees] Anyone using Fedora 18 on the IETF wifi? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:02:21 -0000 On 07/31/2013 12:18 PM, Chris Elliott wrote: > OK--We did modify the 5Ghz radio to meet german wifi requirements. Come > by the NOC when you have a chance and we'll find a way to isolate > ourselves sufficiently to determine if this change (which is on every > IETF AP here) is the issue. Problem solved with this new kernel build: It wasn't related to the radio change. The problem persisted without this new kernel. But thanks a lot for your effort! Hugo From ynir@checkpoint.com Thu Aug 1 00:06:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AA721F9D21 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:06:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.533 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.533 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1JOhA7zdTjLk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC6521F9D1E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7175xAw019563 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:05:59 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FA08D7-9-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:05:59 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Audio Recordings (was: missing mail) Thread-Index: AQHOjoWSLg4RAhAvM0KdmIPknNSXdw== Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:05:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.100] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 113b39bc159227f7b4e2b95713cbc9baa6ee2fa258 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [87attendees] Audio Recordings (was: missing mail) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:06:08 -0000 On Jul 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > i suspect this list is having problems. i have not seen the mandatory > threads about finding atms, the terrors of trains, etc. how can i cut > a ticket in the noc? Randy, you missed one. So here goes. Where are the audio recordings from the sessions? Are they already posted = somewhere? Yoav From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Thu Aug 1 00:08:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B472121F9D87 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:08:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UgKIMGaHKMXe for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcagg.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D754F21F9D44 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661053B8076 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:07:53 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=ooJAuP69EAnQz1TJOHKp4G+0Gocx3B+BOGEKKYypOWChZPAhhCAOqhpoNp7k +L12NzTbHKxYkRnpZjO2tC/nqbyDk4WPItzDfV9UeNMLkJNbh5OxG4xm418bvCvC iCfsmG5Pdq0+Lrd70Q8Z3lhgrWarFgbPYyafiQkj1s+IHzk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=9ei04fNX8uq6+cFxvFHVxR0RlYI=; b=Q9+aDbmlZdHx/ xA3Tb94d+OHcw8XSAKL5L9libtzmj8QJYh+4RyRUvKXYip8qREoXCW2ogAC+VFom vSWDryV7qZVnGpYuWo7Wwi2TvEyyffetMN4/rWKv0Gii0/9kyutbqwOv/QL4dx5S x91XBtNInEAVtcCVIHnN9ME0DRhrPM= Received: from spandex.local (66-230-112-156-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [66.230.112.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 809093B8072 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:07:50 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Audio Recordings X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:08:51 -0000 On 7/31/13 11:05 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Where are the audio recordings from the sessions? Are they already posted somewhere? The meetecho recordings are going up quickly. I've been kind of negative about meetecho in the past but it's been great this time. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From ynir@checkpoint.com Thu Aug 1 00:18:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E783A21F9CC8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:18:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jh5bB9K+poPs for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD4F21F894E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r717Idlx024862; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:18:39 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FA0BCF-2-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:18:39 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Melinda Shore Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Audio Recordings Thread-Index: AQHOjoYBE0MywX880kyL1MeeKceYJpl/v1eA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:18:38 +0000 Message-ID: <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> References: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.100] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 1124d0a4e8b673bdd3962dd729d3dda7931a239a8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <66F65F6758C17C4D87448F7056F0851C@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Audio Recordings X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:18:50 -0000 On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Melinda Shore wr= ote: > On 7/31/13 11:05 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> Where are the audio recordings from the sessions? Are they already post= ed somewhere? >=20 > The meetecho recordings are going up quickly. I've been kind > of negative about meetecho in the past but it's been great this > time. Yes, but the session I'm looking for was not recorded by Meetecho. From N.Leymann@telekom.de Thu Aug 1 00:21:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E2821F9A98 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.177 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.177 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.072, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OGsA4wgWqKPq for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail43.telekom.de (tcmail43.telekom.de [80.149.113.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FA821F90FB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113599.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.65.118]) by tcmail41.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 09:21:32 +0200 Received: from HE100013.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.196) by HE113599.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.118) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:21:32 +0200 Received: from HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.90.96]) by HE100013.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:21:31 +0200 From: To: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:21:31 +0200 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: Ac6ONkL0GbJ1nthkTJSx4fWliDe26AAURbVQ Message-ID: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:21:40 -0000 Hi, > Paraphrasing wikipedia: All major airlines arrive at and depart from > Terminal A. There is no transit zone, which means that each gate has its > own security clearance checkpoint. Well, that depends on Airline and Destination. Most of the Lufthansa flight= s are leaving from A (with security at the gate). But if you are flying with Air Berlin, it's a different Terminal and a central security. So you better check. The screening is in general not different from the screenings at other airports in Europe. Regards Nic _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From brian.rosen@neustar.biz Thu Aug 1 00:24:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D46A21F9D8B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:24:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.177, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9imOgR9XN9DP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neustar.com (mx2.neustar.com [156.154.25.104]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C5B21F9D7A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=neustar.biz; s=neustarbiz; t=1375341786; x=1690675582; q=dns/txt; h=From:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Language: Content-Type; bh=lgMC8FE8PXFYyQvBWDLWpg3t1R9hujDqRFhrBkXsvLs=; b=gPiCp05BGBfrIF6o+ddmdboseKCramlyy6KTjzrLswnSGaCvE00rVIZoKCYdbv YxH5zxv/+cz2kLwITcEml80w== Received: from ([10.31.58.69]) by chihiron1.nc.neustar.com with ESMTP with TLS id J041123128.21840195; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:23:05 -0400 Received: from stntexmb12.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.2.178]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.31]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:24:22 -0400 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'Carlos M. Martinez'" , "'87attendees@ietf.org'" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] The dramatic impact ... Thread-Index: AQHOjhv4HAEHQwqyFkKx6s3xTcOS+Zl/9BAK Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:24:21 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.31.15.96] x-ems-proccessed: R64IxjzeHPwwd+efoj3ZcA== x-ems-stamp: bdX0+Sr5VH08SHO2UB7y1Q== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E2E9C92F6D592646BBB9B1030B13E80D11702A5Cstntexmb12cisne_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] The dramatic impact ... X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:24:34 -0000 --_000_E2E9C92F6D592646BBB9B1030B13E80D11702A5Cstntexmb12cisne_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWgsIGJ1dCBvbmx5IHRoZSB1bmxlYWRlZCB2ZXJzaW9uLiBXZSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgcnVubmluZyBv dXQgb2YgbGVhZGVkLg0KDQoNCg0KU2VudCB3aXRoIEdvb2QgKHd3dy5nb29kLmNvbSkNCg0KDQot LS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogQ2FybG9zIE0uIE1hcnRpbmV6IFtjYXJs b3NAbGFjbmljLm5ldDxtYWlsdG86Y2FybG9zQGxhY25pYy5uZXQ+XQ0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5 LCBKdWx5IDMxLCAyMDEzIDAyOjMwIFBNIEVhc3Rlcm4gU3RhbmRhcmQgVGltZQ0KVG86IDg3YXR0 ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbODdhdHRlbmRlZXNdIFRoZSBkcmFtYXRpYyBpbXBh Y3QgLi4uDQoNCg0K4oCmIG9mIHBhY2tldCBzaXplIGluIHJlbGF0aW9uIHRvIHRocm91Z2hwdXQg d2FzIG5vdGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBob3RlbCBzdGFmZiwgc28gdGhleSB3aXNlbHkgc3Vic3RpdHV0ZWQg MC4yc29tZXRoaW5nIGNva2UgYm90dGxlcyB3aXRoIDAuNWwgb25lcy4gQWhoaCwgbXVjaCBiZXR0 ZXIgIQ0KDQpJIGVjaG8gdGhlIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIHRoZSBtaWMuIEJlcmxpbiBoYXMgKGFuZCBz dGlsbCBpcyEpIGEgd29uZGVyZnVsIGFuZCB2ZXJ5IGVuam95YWJsZSB2ZW51ZS4NCg0KY2hlZXJz IQ0KDQp+Q2FybG9zDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlcw0K --_000_E2E9C92F6D592646BBB9B1030B13E80D11702A5Cstntexmb12cisne_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDMuMi8vRU4iPg0KPGh0bWw+ DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9o dG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9ImdlbmVyYXRvciIgY29udGVudD0iSFRN TCBUaWR5IGZvciBXaW5kb3dzICh2ZXJzIDI1IE1hcmNoIDIwMDkpLCBzZWUgd3d3LnczLm9yZyI+ DQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJHZW5lcmF0b3IiIGNvbnRlbnQ9Ik1TIEV4Y2hhbmdlIFNlcnZlciB2ZXJz aW9uIDE0LjAyLjAzNDIuMDAxIj4NCjx0aXRsZT5bODdhdHRlbmRlZXNdIFRoZSBkcmFtYXRpYyBp bXBhY3QgLi4uPC90aXRsZT4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5Pg0KQWgsIGJ1dCBvbmx5IHRoZSB1bmxl YWRlZCB2ZXJzaW9uLiBXZSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgcnVubmluZyBvdXQgb2YgbGVhZGVkLjxicj4NCjxi cj4NCjxicj4NCjxicj4NClNlbnQgd2l0aCBHb29kICh3d3cuZ29vZC5jb20pPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0K PGJyPg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS08YnI+DQo8Yj5Gcm9tOiZuYnNwOzwvYj5D YXJsb3MgTS4gTWFydGluZXogWzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpjYXJsb3NAbGFjbmljLm5ldCI+Y2Fy bG9zQGxhY25pYy5uZXQ8L2E+XTxicj4NCjxiPlNlbnQ6Jm5ic3A7PC9iPldlZG5lc2RheSwgSnVs eSAzMSwgMjAxMyAwMjozMCBQTSBFYXN0ZXJuIFN0YW5kYXJkIFRpbWU8YnI+DQo8Yj5UbzombmJz cDs8L2I+ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8YnI+DQo8Yj5TdWJqZWN0OiZuYnNwOzwvYj5bODdh dHRlbmRlZXNdIFRoZSBkcmFtYXRpYyBpbXBhY3QgLi4uPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPCEtLSBDb252ZXJ0 ZWQgZnJvbSB0ZXh0L3BsYWluIGZvcm1hdCAtLT4NCjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjIiPuKApiBvZiBw YWNrZXQgc2l6ZSBpbiByZWxhdGlvbiB0byB0aHJvdWdocHV0IHdhcyBub3RlZCBieSB0aGUgaG90 ZWwgc3RhZmYsIHNvIHRoZXkgd2lzZWx5IHN1YnN0aXR1dGVkIDAuMnNvbWV0aGluZyBjb2tlIGJv dHRsZXMgd2l0aCAwLjVsIG9uZXMuIEFoaGgsIG11Y2ggYmV0dGVyICE8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpJIGVj aG8gdGhlIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIHRoZSBtaWMuIEJlcmxpbiBoYXMgKGFuZCBzdGlsbCBpcyEpIGEg d29uZGVyZnVsIGFuZCB2ZXJ5IGVuam95YWJsZSB2ZW51ZS48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpjaGVlcnMhPGJy Pg0KPGJyPg0KfkNhcmxvczxicj4NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KODdhdHRlbmRl ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv Lzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzPC9hPjxicj4NCjwvZm9udD48L3A+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_E2E9C92F6D592646BBB9B1030B13E80D11702A5Cstntexmb12cisne_-- From paitken@cisco.com Thu Aug 1 00:37:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE3821F9CF3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.481 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.481 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PB3nZaBF0DZH for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E2BA21F9D98 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:37:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=316; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375342643; x=1376552243; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vRb8KHfa7rxtmxKDALIMl7ACX/Qze8bTAXN9Qjb6C70=; b=RzrKHdhefLvfmRPfKsCextesiHUrculhNtwqG8m6akHQgUWYTRUeGclh WsaKf5ptB9SnhXiJwr0tTTzo+Q+uJdhTbhnjCSXRJ2/VV6pcVaq6VYGaX isopDTDh2v67jJNuruXyMyml3xm6TYJRaHwqseiFDvoISO6Glof+dHN6B g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmwFAA8P+lGQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABbgwaDTrwDgR4WdIIkAQEBBDhBEAsYCSUPAkYTAQUCAQGIDLk+kAcHFoN1A5dfhiOLKoMV X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,729,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="16213536" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 07:37:22 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r717bIcS020271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:37:19 GMT Received: from [10.61.169.133] ([10.61.169.133]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r717bH5c014754; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:37:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:37:19 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: N.Leymann@telekom.de References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> In-Reply-To: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:37:36 -0000 On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: > The screening is in general not different from the screenings at other airports in Europe. I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I passed through. Very few people were. Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL. P. From lberger@labn.net Thu Aug 1 00:46:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54A121F9DF0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:46:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.865 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.865 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ifFn0JGYfMEg for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.54.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F279F21F9DB2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29421 invoked by uid 0); 1 Aug 2013 07:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2013 07:45:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:CC:To:From; bh=3evSFDVdbuz/W2/j3BlOuSLSSSMJaRhVmCBvSIxp4/Y=; b=MgAtY+4+7LRfKBDF3gIzfVBSe/UDNo/ZwwNewDyolYLRraM2wfDXiAAItvrm5PkrUtz8XP6pcUKraMCDmTnWm2uuGzXy07ITknjpzEwYFwuE8cqgtsieUhl3nMS1qs07; Received: from [130.129.101.35] (port=57305) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V4nZk-0003w0-FO; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:45:33 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Yoav Nir Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:45:11 +0200 Message-ID: <14038d65c50.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> References: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 AquaMail/1.2.4.0 (build: 2100294) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 130.129.101.35 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Audio Recordings X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:46:01 -0000 On August 1, 2013 9:18:38 AM Yoav Nir wrote: > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Melinda Shore wrote: > > > On 7/31/13 11:05 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > >> Where are the audio recordings from the sessions? Are they already > posted somewhere? > > The meetecho recordings are going up quickly. I've been kind > > of negative about meetecho in the past but it's been great this > > time. > > Yes, but the session I'm looking for was not recorded by Meetecho. > > Audio recordings are being posted fairly quickly at http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf87/ From york@isoc.org Thu Aug 1 00:47:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AA721F9DCA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.930, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SUVJvwCEDBXM for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2lp0235.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B2121F9D2B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.146) by BLUPR06MB066.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.731.16; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:47:46 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.198]) by BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.46]) with mapi id 15.00.0731.000; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:47:45 +0000 From: Dan York To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: YouTube "trailer" for Online Games Traffic Tutorial at 10:35 this morning Thread-Index: AQHOjoto7XMC7HxAw0u0IAG9UlNBww== Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:47:45 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.255.101.4] x-forefront-prvs: 0925081676 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(189002)(199002)(74876001)(19580395003)(53806001)(76482001)(54356001)(16236675002)(51856001)(19580385001)(56776001)(69226001)(83322001)(74366001)(63696002)(15380165004)(54316002)(47976001)(79102001)(47736001)(49866001)(74662001)(83072001)(50986001)(31966008)(74706001)(77096001)(56816003)(65816001)(80022001)(81342001)(4396001)(80976001)(76796001)(36756003)(46102001)(81542001)(59766001)(15202345003)(47446002)(76786001)(76176001)(77982001)(74502001)(16406001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB066; H:BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:10.255.101.4; RD:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE1FDF4215FA2yorkisocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Subject: [87attendees] YouTube "trailer" for Online Games Traffic Tutorial at 10:35 this morning X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:47:57 -0000 --_000_CE1FDF4215FA2yorkisocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know if this is the first "trailer" for an IETF session posted to Y= ouTube, but it's fun to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DQAnW9HTkbsI Congratulations to whoever was involved with making the video! The online games traffic tutorial is happening in the TSV Area in Potsdam 1= in about 50 minutes at 10:35. If you know of people remote who want to tune in, they can join MeetEcho at= : http://www.meetecho.com/ietf87/tsvarea where they will get the video integrated with the jabber chat room. We're also planning to have a live video stream going out at: https://new.= livestream.com/internetsociety/onlinegames Dan --_000_CE1FDF4215FA2yorkisocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know if this is the first "trailer" for an IETF sess= ion posted to YouTube, but it's fun to see:


Congratulations to whoever was involved with making the video!

The online games traffic tutorial is happening in the TSV Area in Pots= dam 1 in about 50 minutes at 10:35.  

If you know of people remote who want to tune in, they can join MeetEc= ho at:

http://www.meetecho.com/ietf87/tsvarea

where they will get the video integrated with the jabber chat room.

We're also planning to have a live video stream going out at:  https://ne= w.livestream.com/internetsociety/onlinegames

Dan
--_000_CE1FDF4215FA2yorkisocorg_-- From warren@kumari.net Thu Aug 1 00:52:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7727821F8A50 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:52:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.349, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZsFn3dOOK+J for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (smtp1.kumari.net [204.194.22.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0E621F9B60 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.0.70] (unknown [130.129.0.70]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C1AB1B409A4; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <93707BF8-79D2-490F-8992-81F19CF6C79D@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:52:17 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A520599@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <51F941A7.9010104@cisco.com> <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A52061F@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <79A25569-34D1-4D90-9ECC-FE216725E7CA@nostrum.com> <93707BF8-79D2-490F-8992-81F19CF6C79D@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Adam Roach , Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando subnet X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:52:43 -0000 On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:46 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 1, 2013, at 01:08, Adam Roach wrote: >=20 >> Taiwan >=20 > I believe we should collect these experiences and tally the average = latency of the various services in picking up IETF's "movements"=85 Warren points at: = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-google-self-published-geofeeds-02 This should help make things better=85. W >=20 > Taiwan is 5 meetings ago, Prague (which has been cited here) is 7 = meetings ago. Wow. >=20 > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 -- "Real children don't go hoppity-skip unless they are on drugs." -- Susan, the ultimate sensible governess (Terry Pratchett, = Hogfather) From oej@edvina.net Thu Aug 1 01:41:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FF121F9E31 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:41:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.245, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RHACffZmAVHW for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51FE21F9E26 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::16:adbf:e08c:a813:cad1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:adbf:e08c:a813:cad1]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A358593C1AF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:41:05 +0000 (UTC) From: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:41:06 +0200 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:41:10 -0000 Please keep your name badges on, especially if you are speaking in wg = meetings. It does help the scribes, who may not remember your name or = the spelling from the five previous IETF meetings. Thank you! /O= From vdolmatov@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 01:44:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2A021F9DB0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8BQT+MjXyNJk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F04F21F9E13 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id lf11so1895910pab.10 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:44:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=rDNpOgk1vyJaUzBJEbAqtvK/gZ6G0HXkkA3dw3IoIPY=; b=EFAUWId85D+xn0hRnum9t5KG6I8GCipGXWMsnTi4KbMPhvr+fkBmy2gbbMHK3DF97z Lbz6F08BJ7CCSqnOoTE6wY50kCVtqNck12eWPkrSF5v1Lh4qQXXmEQOcW9bJxPQT5K6u SF53B17tlpFl6jioCStTw7J+DX5PJjtvn2ajwXcLB/XBvj+6QjcfD/osJ1TcDri1oqsE xIKNjBCxixMQqLifW7HVrPQyGUVn+UbNK0nmKPSuKfYoUSlc5zxjfeOpNydQCeChgr/c UzMWpU5MBpmtIeDu9PQ0qMt07FsMew//q8xdezq4LR1PWMgo1+tDxG14yJ2UnpdbR93D 4+cQ== X-Received: by 10.66.168.7 with SMTP id zs7mr2631392pab.152.1375346656387; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.21.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ss8sm2891974pab.6.2013.08.01.01.44.14 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvtC70LzQsNGC0L7Qsg==?= In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:44:11 +0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> References: To: "Olle E. Johansson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:44:26 -0000 On 01.08.2013, at 12:41, "Olle E. Johansson" wrote: > Please keep your name badges on, =85 on the upper part of your body ;) > especially if you are speaking in wg meetings. It does help the = scribes, who may not remember your name or the spelling from the five = previous IETF meetings. >=20 > Thank you! > /O > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From shep@xplot.org Thu Aug 1 01:52:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDF421F96DA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:52:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OtUo5tO+Jzk2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.xplot.org (www.xplot.org [66.92.66.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7363321F992B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 01:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shep (helo=alva.home) by www.xplot.org with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1V4obv-0004xb-00; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:51:51 -0400 From: Tim Shepard To: Paul Kyzivat In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:11:00 +0200. <51F94524.1000709@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:51:51 -0400 Message-Id: Sender: Tim Shepard Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Robert Moskowitz Subject: Re: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:52:19 -0000 > But IMO the 5 7-bit characters per 36 bit words was the weirdest. IMO, radix-50 (aka squoze) was even weirder. I encountered it in on 36-bit machines where it was used to encode six alphanumeric characters into 32-bits, leaving 4 bits left over for type and flag bits in symbol tables used for linking together seperately assembled (or compiled) modules. And for the math savants who read the above two paragraphs and thought "Wait, that can't possibly work because 50^6 is more than 3 times larger than 2^32.", you need to know that the "50" in "radix-50" is in base 8, and it works just fine because 40^6 is indeed a bit less than 2^32. -Tim Shepard shep@alum.mit.edu From warren@kumari.net Thu Aug 1 02:11:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16FA21E8087 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.216 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.216 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwkjgfiHtdgZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (smtp1.kumari.net [204.194.22.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE3021E8095 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.0.70] (unknown [130.129.0.70]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 169DF1B412D0; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_92C488C0-FF90-4183-8584-96C7AFFF5C39"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:10:47 +0200 Message-Id: References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> To: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvtC70LzQsNGC0L7Qsg==?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, "Olle E. Johansson" , Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:11:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_92C488C0-FF90-4183-8584-96C7AFFF5C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Aug 1, 2013, at 10:44 AM, =D0=92=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=B8=D0=BB=D0=B8=D0=B9 = =D0=94=D0=BE=D0=BB=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B2 = wrote: >=20 > On 01.08.2013, at 12:41, "Olle E. Johansson" wrote: >=20 >> Please keep your name badges on, > =E2=80=A6 on the upper part of your body ;) >=20 =E2=80=A6on a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) W >> especially if you are speaking in wg meetings. It does help the = scribes, who may not remember your name or the spelling from the five = previous IETF meetings. >>=20 >> Thank you! >> /O >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 --=20 Eagles soar but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine=20 --Apple-Mail=_92C488C0-FF90-4183-8584-96C7AFFF5C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlH6Jh8ACgkQHSkNr4ucESep9gCeMcMOj+uHLmqH+4mu5C/zThrA hjMAoN0ESvLi6kIWXI/+u7DsjmOlf9uO =4fLr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_92C488C0-FF90-4183-8584-96C7AFFF5C39-- From robert.cragie@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 02:11:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7941121F85BB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ya8Pe2Zppslb for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x231.google.com (mail-ea0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82E221E808E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f177.google.com with SMTP id f15so859209eak.22 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 02:11:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7mRY5t3HhkTF14EXqPgdUZBk9SebQmcqCiA08xzECIs=; b=nJj29wdXv8pexhpfmY2P8BzzSgNCgh6pIawATzaHxbtPmJDRzFuBsumtmNdA9hk4sw ev/ADZTU+AZFmBxK6mTK6UGx9u2inGZPvM6dgaq0acbZmqXf1w8hhK6ELHn6sdaQmrhV mI7cm5OSqHonMWs3qn9qOqahPNCSkmqlHyKnSUTC2V1QiDPqF2clP6LoDzG1maoCQs1L z6+bJjF+HQ/5guRw+MXiQ1SJsqJrpfq3z7xF6PskwJ/YWTCy5gEp/4cNcSXXLwuJBBLF mweSuRsPFtacygsW7P3Msl85qq5K8wO2pzSOgjQM2IDwLTnNRfe2lwPz+cMuNUVpUums Tdew== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.211.134 with SMTP id w6mr631708eeo.26.1375348272229; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 02:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: robert.cragie@gmail.com Received: by 10.15.44.1 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:11:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:11:12 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: fcKEvXmZooPonloHb6j3VUYroQc Message-ID: From: Robert Cragie To: John R Levine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b62238035913a04e2df3957 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:11:26 -0000 --047d7b62238035913a04e2df3957 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +1 - for all those who have paid up, a T-shirt should be a right, not a privilege :-) Robert On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 12:28 PM, John R Levine wrote: > Dropping leading zeros in octets? Really? >> > > If you don't want your shirt, I'll cheerfully take it off your hands. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > > PS: How often have they run out of tee shirts ? :( > > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b62238035913a04e2df3957 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 - =A0for all those who have paid up,=A0a T-shirt should= be a right, not a privilege :-)

Robert


On Wed, Jul 31, 20= 13 at 12:28 PM, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Dropping leading zeros in octets? Really?

If you don't want your shirt, I'll cheerfully take it off your hand= s.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@tau= gh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.

PS: How often have they run out of tee shirts ? :(

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--047d7b62238035913a04e2df3957-- From swb@internet2.edu Thu Aug 1 02:14:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66FC721F9CF3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:14:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.852, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KfRwjCO0bxOf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe003.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.183]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2342621E808D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail110-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.237) by CH1EHSOBE014.bigfish.com (10.43.70.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:14:04 +0000 Received: from mail110-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail110-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84C43800A0; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:14:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BY2PRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 26 X-BigFish: S26(zzda00hd40dhdc73hdea4hzz1f42h1d77h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6h1082kzz1033IL17326ah1550feh1de096h8275dh1de097h76bd9k17598djz2dh2a8h668h839h947hd25he5bhf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h1765h18e1h190ch1946h19b4h19c3h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1f5fh1ca1iw1b1cn1b1bi1155h) Received: from mail110-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail110-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1375348441188178_15726; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:14:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (snatpool2.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.232]) by mail110-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C032C0049; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:14:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0811HT002.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.5) by CH1EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (10.43.70.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:14:00 +0000 Received: from dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org (130.129.22.104) by pod51019.outlook.com (10.255.91.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.341.1; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:13:59 +0000 Message-ID: <51FA26D4.5000102@internet2.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:13:56 +0200 From: Scott Brim Organization: Internet2 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Shepard References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [130.129.22.104] X-OriginatorOrg: internet2.edu X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Robert Moskowitz , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:14:18 -0000 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1924 From keith@dns-oarc.net Thu Aug 1 02:57:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7286B21F99E9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B1EC-abAK6C1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.dns-oarc.net (in1.dns-oarc.net [149.20.58.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F1421F8E8E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 02:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen-keith.smoti.org (dhcp-5434.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.84.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.dns-oarc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84DC6BDD57; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:56:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keith@dns-oarc.net) Message-ID: <51FA30CA.4030807@dns-oarc.net> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 05:56:26 -0400 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: OARC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121025 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:57:01 -0000 On 07/31/2013 06:40 PM, John R Levine wrote: >> I found the security experience to be very thorough: each passenger >> was individually screened, frisked, and wanded. All shoes - even flat >> / flip-flop style - were checked on a shoe step. You're expected to >> empty *everything* from your pockets. > > When I flew out of Tegel last year, the security was just before the > gate (hard to avoid given the airport's layout) but it wasn't any > fussier than it is at Frankfurt or other EU airports. IME they are more pedantic and grumpy at TXL than even FRA :-( If you don't want your entire carry-on to be hand-searched through, take *all* your tech gear out and put it in the tray. Keith From paitken@cisco.com Thu Aug 1 03:10:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765F521F9F9A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:10:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gvWMD9D8QAig for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6063021F9FF1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:10:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=444; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375351803; x=1376561403; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IAxE5rxJJI/UAJp3a9HwZ78uQg5HY6CFwbIoX5R8F/Q=; b=Ik8+nsdh4IFs7MYemX5ZT5yai69WgV8819AkQdVoU/h+t//C1m2dwMn5 IhCVbQRJwu3Re7+gVUT7Tasma7F7WN88QcG9PNI8QwZP3G8vf1Djls7NO dyYQ+3F4HAUHrU86lX0wjAlc3+OXOmAJuIW5e0TcLU2qULqfkooRLZK7F g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAI4z+lGQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABbgwY2g1+7N4EgFnSCJAEBAQMBIw8BBUABEAsaAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBRQYNAQcBAYgGBqdYkVWBKI5fB4JmgSYDl1+GJIsqgxU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,729,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="16218809" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 10:09:53 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r71A9pHH003443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:09:51 GMT Received: from [10.61.169.133] ([10.61.169.133]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r71A9nAR023885; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:09:49 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:09:50 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: =?UTF-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvg==?= =?UTF-8?B?0LvQvNCw0YLQvtCy?= , "Olle E. Johansson" , Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:10:16 -0000 >>> Please keep your name badges on, >> … on the upper part of your body ;) > …on a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) If you have a clearly visible upper body part, then perhaps you got the wrong size of T shirt or you have a wardrobe malfunction ? Rephrasing: "clearly visible on an upper part of your clothing". - preferably on a part where it won't be awkward if others have to stare for a moment. P. From charliep@computer.org Thu Aug 1 03:25:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4D821F9C01 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QrLWdwdKNWJd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B594B21F996A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.16.71] by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1V4q1t-0001AK-K5 for 87attendees@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:22:45 -0400 Message-ID: <51FA36E9.4080502@computer.org> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:22:33 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad868a6f9e6ecc83e241d7001d0b9d8d6750350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 130.129.16.71 Subject: [87attendees] Classical guitar tunes at 8:30 tonight somewhere around Potsdam 1 X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:25:16 -0000 Hello folks, I've brought my guitar and a few new tunes. I'll look for a space around Potsdam 1 which should be available tonight. After you've been thoroughly amazed at Bits and Bytes, and taken advantage of all the delights there, you might be ready for a quieter and more harmonious space in time... -- Regards, Charlie P. From jon.hudson@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 03:28:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E8D521F9C82 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zR6yW5qZYdZG for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x234.google.com (mail-pb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1FC21E8053 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so1909147pbc.11 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:27:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=W4NKcIxbfGLqYuaTU4NiRihRjMx9AHg4GbCQw6b/PPo=; b=SgMYIinbP/ao+X6NnPLxKzUyr3teLhQQE16ybcNCrDO1Sdb41IIK2/kJ5OcoJwhK2B T2SDuayOM0oVQp9lVx8ORMLwqfM8N2lKwWS5zn+AIUupQCEvrWEkEo7MSgdZA/zhLR4a mppGM5qWmoBbrFDW6+nDdg+4tVhiyRnUXk/XiGVA1CnHRIDuAz0KzbxUjX5QZ/5Ryi74 nvZxUzvNqaqhq+iMYpofbhiWZjqfrZsFcByP7Yo/9Nd7d6EO6AN8tmS/BCFZ0B83CU6U +VjI17Yv3q92RlTSONZj2hCRLQTpYRkQtlL4/KlqOxTKB1lLfLP44XiqNqYaa2foyE/r V1/A== X-Received: by 10.69.14.165 with SMTP id fh5mr1044020pbd.81.1375352862798; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.22.214] (dhcp-16d6.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.22.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vu5sm3226632pab.10.2013.08.01.03.27.40 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:27:42 -0700 (PDT) References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA30CA.4030807@dns-oarc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <51FA30CA.4030807@dns-oarc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Jon Hudson Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:27:39 +0200 To: Keith Mitchell Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:28:48 -0000 Agreed. Flew out of hear last month back to the US, hands down the most thorough ins= pection of both my bags and person I have ever experience. _Nothing_ unprofessional, it was all done very well, very efficiently, but q= uite personal.=20 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Keith Mitchell wrote: > On 07/31/2013 06:40 PM, John R Levine wrote: >>> I found the security experience to be very thorough: each passenger >>> was individually screened, frisked, and wanded. All shoes - even flat >>> / flip-flop style - were checked on a shoe step. You're expected to >>> empty *everything* from your pockets. >>=20 >> When I flew out of Tegel last year, the security was just before the >> gate (hard to avoid given the airport's layout) but it wasn't any >> fussier than it is at Frankfurt or other EU airports. >=20 > IME they are more pedantic and grumpy at TXL than even FRA :-( >=20 > If you don't want your entire carry-on to be hand-searched through, take > *all* your tech gear out and put it in the tray. >=20 > Keith >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From victorferreiramatos@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 03:41:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9526921F9BBF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id klLvznUTlXLv for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x232.google.com (mail-la0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F0921F9AFD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id fn20so1273225lab.23 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:41:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jc58rn/uRctwe3DExX/d/H60Kz62OrLsSz3ikxYakcc=; b=oWcjiNEDS/ltM6CYMGpQIrv4mxFlLVsIEnLc4W64D+wGc/mg7IS/1ej3sgr8pMxeho +8722eVhkrdPM4AoL8JozDJht8mrsy7oQFuHs1lyyLsyYH08IWgznkNpimBCI+VBDBNA 5Jtn9B8PnllLaTyyDU1U9NxKcb6joh4AyHmwbTCS/Lr4PV27fa2eOvd233WlOLp1WH47 MibjaixoVK/KCGsiYelntNXFJVGpkzOQKlAmoeMZKrZJ9e/1jep+hw8fKQLVNH9patka brUnjI8b9B80zabuYgA1LWb9grtPTNIydn7VSPANOVoqdPMgu3Zei8rtpOKbLnNWrMMZ Ra+Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.5.199 with SMTP id u7mr1044694lbu.67.1375353689025; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.184.162 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:41:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51FA36E9.4080502@computer.org> References: <51FA36E9.4080502@computer.org> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:41:28 +0200 Message-ID: From: Victor Matos To: "Charles E. Perkins" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae94ed6fd1335e004e2e07c69 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Classical guitar tunes at 8:30 tonight somewhere around Potsdam 1 X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:41:32 -0000 --14dae94ed6fd1335e004e2e07c69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Count me in! 2013/8/1 Charles E. Perkins > > Hello folks, > > I've brought my guitar and a few new tunes. I'll look for a space > around Potsdam 1 which should be available tonight. After you've > been thoroughly amazed at Bits and Bytes, and taken advantage > of all the delights there, you might be ready for a quieter and more > harmonious space in time... > > -- > Regards, > Charlie P. > > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --=20 Victor Matos Graduando em Engenharia de Computa=E7=E3o - UEPG --14dae94ed6fd1335e004e2e07c69 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Count me in!


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/8/1 Charles E. Perkins <= ;charliep@comput= er.org>

Hello folks,

I've brought my guitar and a few new tunes. =A0I'll look for a spac= e
around Potsdam 1 which should be available tonight. =A0After you've
been thoroughly amazed at Bits and Bytes, and taken advantage
of all the delights there, you might be ready for a quieter and more
harmonious space in time...<= br>
--
Regards,
Charlie P.

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees



--
Victor Ma= tos
Graduando em Engenharia de Computa=E7=E3o - UEPG
--14dae94ed6fd1335e004e2e07c69-- From rgm@labs.htt-consult.com Thu Aug 1 03:48:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20D521F9ECA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:48:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tex4Ihl8WcgK for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [IPv6:2607:f4b8:3:0:218:71ff:fe83:66b9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0A321F9EC4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1E262A65; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:48:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XfeB2XsFrnna; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e2.htt-consult.com (dhcp-4520.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.69.32]) (Authenticated sender: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B526A62820; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51FA3CC4.2020302@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:47:32 +0200 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Brim References: <51FA26D4.5000102@internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <51FA26D4.5000102@internet2.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Tim Shepard , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:48:19 -0000 On 08/01/2013 11:13 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1924 AH, I miss Robert Elz's wit. From chelliot@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 04:06:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2225D21E8083 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.818 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FMkeBF-TwAGE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22b.google.com (mail-lb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCC021E8089 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id t13so1415651lbd.16 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:05:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=/luR5yS99siB2z6sBuxWn79METbZZlSrM4BlTTjgkIo=; b=BTZHPsZU3DwDm4TgSXZP6EDL5Q1d55MKkIf90FMvVJ6pF+0yKdQbSpuzY0yt9ms9m2 NRr8URmfyfK7coAPtIX4m6Gf5glC5GtSo3jkC/dpnRDyt0O1Y6vLqyZsFC/76S+BjqVa 7MU26PcneIaetiQu0xG6CdXrQRpMwEUS+Oco/NKfFuIDyGTPVBgIeRQbFe1/c2wa1NF6 N4uyYgLNEW5cg7f7VVqSigCtCYooAGkHcs9PXPb2HKplgM4RCfcsTjXvfwIvwXJfMu4T J2TK7ndDtHFCI/08ck+Z6QtzBPC9jql6jqn+Io28D2jc+YWu9MFmrWeJq70GlchtV0Ld PT5g== X-Received: by 10.152.30.35 with SMTP id p3mr490457lah.32.1375355158313; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:05:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:05:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130731195651.GA30138@sequoia2.sous-sol.org> References: <76F05F8F-EBE8-4C93-AA94-4AA104DC8FF9@mocana.com> <51F68FE7.3010404@labs.htt-consult.com> <51F69CDE.3070900@redhat.com> <51F6E543.7070609@labs.htt-consult.com> <51F76C00.70205@redhat.com> <1375179648.5686.5.camel@localhost> <1375265249.5862.0.camel@localhost> <20130731195651.GA30138@sequoia2.sous-sol.org> From: Chris Elliott Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:05:37 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gwqONgu1J8n6t34XUxY9iSByQnI Message-ID: To: Chris Wright Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160a454a6bf3604e2e0d307 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Derek Atkins , Paul Wouters , Robert Moskowitz Subject: Re: [87attendees] Anyone using Fedora 18 on the IETF wifi? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:06:05 -0000 --089e0160a454a6bf3604e2e0d307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, Been having fun reading specs. This spec, first released October 2012, and revised May 2013, suggests that 5765 is perfectly valid: http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/rec7003e.pdf Look at page 8, middle of page: i 5725-5875 MHz 25 mW e.i.r.p. No requirement No spacing So the only requirement is to limit power to 25 mW. Wikipedia offers a much easier digestion of this information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5.C2.A0GHz_.28802.11a.2Fh.2Fj.2Fn.2Fac.29.5B15.5D I haven't been able to find what the status was before October 2012, but Cisco IOS software seems to think the channel (based on compile date of various IOS images and what they do when you set the world-mode country code to DE). Chris. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Chris Wright wrote: > * Chris Elliott (chelliot@pobox.com) wrote: > > OK--We did modify the 5Ghz radio to meet german wifi requirements. Come > by > > the NOC when you have a chance and we'll find a way to isolate ourselves > > sufficiently to determine if this change (which is on every IETF AP here) > > is the issue. > > Apparently 5765 MHz is either not allowed for DE or the Linux regulatory > db is not correct. In either case, the Linux behaviour is wrong[1] > (shouldn't hang), and can be more tolerant[2]. Both of these things have > been fixed (test kernel available in the bz[3]). I've successfully > tested a local build against an AP that Chris Elliot set up for testing. > > thanks, > -chris > > [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/111396 > [2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/111394 > [3] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=981445#c33 > -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --089e0160a454a6bf3604e2e0d307 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,

Been having fun reading specs. T= his spec, first released October 2012, and revised May 2013, suggests that = 5765 is perfectly valid:


Look at page 8, middle of page:

i 5725-5875 MHz 25 mW e.i.r.p. No requirement No spacing=A0

So the only requirement is to limit power to 25 mW.

Wikipedia offers a much easier digestion of this inform= ation here:


I haven't been able to find what the status w= as before October 2012, but Cisco IOS software seems to think the channel (= based on compile date of various IOS images and what they do when you set t= he world-mode country code to DE).

Chris.


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Chris Wright <= chrisw@sous-sol.org> wrote:
* Chris Elliott (chelliot@pobox.com) wrote:
> OK--We did modify the 5Ghz radio to meet german wifi requirements. Com= e by
> the NOC when you have a chance and we'll find a way to isolate our= selves
> sufficiently to determine if this change (which is on every IETF AP he= re)
> is the issue.

Apparently 5765 MHz is either not allowed for DE or the Linux regulat= ory
db is not correct. =A0In either case, the Linux behaviour is wrong[1]
(shouldn't hang), and can be more tolerant[2]. =A0Both of these things = have
been fixed (test kernel available in the bz[3]). =A0I've successfully tested a local build against an AP that Chris Elliot set up for testing.
thanks,
-chris

[1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wire= less.general/111396
[2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wire= less.general/111394
[3] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3D981445#c33



--
Chris Elliot= t
chelliot@pobox.com
--089e0160a454a6bf3604e2e0d307-- From vdolmatov@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 04:23:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB2421F9E6B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:23:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EsRPqY637wbk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22f.google.com (mail-pd0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A354F21F9635 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 5so1887163pdd.20 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=LInt7livpIFb8eNG1/lCeszpbEnFbbeMkvVSq9+E0pU=; b=e+Hz2kYew/eGAOYD0JNZiSE5mJo44w/1iDilv85XjWDb4zBf/9WGn5AXMZpbNFry1Q vCEYpXO1nBlj7OlZvhaxpJhhsaAj7oPsOFaq3hJrPR+E37mHm4LhTw1OslJkmwciYHA9 PqCQBkrNDZSfxVHmmMb0Q+cuDoJAVzRsk6S2IUDlbifMX2dti0FdDLNP7H4pz89QA0Yk +tEPTTIaASEgCkS+TzxkefIEfwy5iWrerA3K5D9T8bBKE7m07IT9bqLhurVr4vuR8ySB aJLbNKIto3pvz1+k1GXqx8xZoWaY2MefP1ZoqyTdHE/uM6+iKpmMSjndiJA9b+OZOhp8 27uA== X-Received: by 10.68.240.72 with SMTP id vy8mr1221182pbc.161.1375356197204; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.21.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a5sm3530307pbw.4.2013.08.01.04.23.10 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvtC70LzQsNGC0L7Qsg==?= In-Reply-To: <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:23:03 +0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6BEA4E83-2DC8-4B7C-B198-C502F731955E@gmail.com> References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> To: Paul Aitken X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, "Olle E. Johansson" , Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:23:20 -0000 On 01.08.2013, at 14:09, Paul Aitken wrote: >=20 >>>> Please keep your name badges on, >>> =85 on the upper part of your body ;) >> =85on a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) >=20 > If you have a clearly visible upper body part, then perhaps you got = the wrong size of T shirt or you have a wardrobe malfunction ? Forehead, ears, nose, neck, cheeks? ;) >=20 > Rephrasing: "clearly visible on an upper part of your clothing". OK, let it be so ;) >=20 > - preferably on a part where it won't be awkward if others have to = stare for a moment. ;) dol@ >=20 > P. From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Thu Aug 1 04:26:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9953521E80D6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:26:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HXxXNaOMelc3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11FD21E809A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porto.nomis80.org (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1000]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D9B446FC4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51FA45C8.4090402@viagenie.ca> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:26:00 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:26:18 -0000 Le 2013-08-01 12:09, Paul Aitken a écrit : > >>>> Please keep your name badges on, >>> … on the upper part of your body ;) >> …on a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) > > Rephrasing: "clearly visible on an upper part of your clothing". > > - preferably on a part where it won't be awkward if others have to > stare for a moment. I use my upper appendix, you know, the part where most of the sensory organs are and is covered by a fine fur. Surprisingly, I found it to be a fine badge hanger. You just put the badge around it and let it hang on the side of the body facing other people. Let it hang loosely: if you tie it too tight, it doesn't feel too good, and for some reason you lose vision after a while. This needs more research. Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From oej@edvina.net Thu Aug 1 04:33:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6E821E8087 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:33:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.210, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rANahQRfMVOZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA4B21E805F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::16:bd0a:1bce:8b3f:eb75] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:bd0a:1bce:8b3f:eb75]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9A34293C1AF; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:33:27 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <51FA45C8.4090402@viagenie.ca> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:33:28 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> <51FA45C8.4090402@viagenie.ca> To: Simon Perreault X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:33:32 -0000 1 aug 2013 kl. 13:26 skrev Simon Perreault = : > Le 2013-08-01 12:09, Paul Aitken a =E9crit : >>=20 >>>>> Please keep your name badges on, >>>> =85 on the upper part of your body ;) >>> =85on a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) >>=20 >> Rephrasing: "clearly visible on an upper part of your clothing". >>=20 >> - preferably on a part where it won't be awkward if others have = to >> stare for a moment. >=20 > I use my upper appendix, you know, the part where most of the sensory = organs are and is covered by a fine fur. Surprisingly, I found it to be = a fine badge hanger. You just put the badge around it and let it hang on = the side of the body facing other people. Let it hang loosely: if you = tie it too tight, it doesn't feel too good, and for some reason you lose = vision after a while. This needs more research. >=20 An IRTF research group? Would that help you? /O From swb@internet2.edu Thu Aug 1 04:45:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A595111E8119 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:45:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OxOfIS9+XADM for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db8outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (mail-db8lp0185.outbound.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.185]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D545C21F9C2D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail168-db8-R.bigfish.com (10.174.8.228) by DB8EHSOBE003.bigfish.com (10.174.4.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:27 +0000 Received: from mail168-db8 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail168-db8-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C808001F6; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.241.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0811HT005.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 21 X-BigFish: S21(zzbb2dI98dIda00hdc73hzz1f42h1d77h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6h1082kzz177df4h17326ah1de096h8275bh1de097h17ae73uz2dh2a8h668h839h93fhd25he5bhf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h1765h18e1h190ch1946h19b4h19c3h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1f5fh1b1cn1b1bi1155h) Received: from mail168-db8 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail168-db8 (MessageSwitch) id 1375357524599397_28198; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB8EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.8.230]) by mail168-db8.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8359F2A0048; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0811HT005.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.5) by DB8EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (10.174.4.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:24 +0000 Received: from swbi2mbp.local (46.189.28.57) by pod51019.outlook.com (10.255.107.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.341.1; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: <51FA4A4E.1020606@internet2.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:45:18 +0200 From: Scott Brim Organization: Internet2 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [46.189.28.57] X-OriginatorOrg: internet2.edu X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, =?UTF-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQuw==?= =?UTF-8?B?0LjQuSDQlNC+0LvQvNCw0YLQvtCy?= , Warren Kumari , "Olle E. Johansson" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:45:35 -0000 On 08/01/13 12:09, Paul Aitken allegedly wrote: > - preferably on a part where it won't be awkward if others have to > stare for a moment. If you looked like you would have to keep saying "hello, my badge is up here!" From ben@nostrum.com Thu Aug 1 04:50:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF14721E809A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:50:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zbViyMRLBTeY for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F87621F9E33 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 04:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-4241.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-4241.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.66.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r71BoENM051840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:50:13 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> To: Paul Aitken X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 130.129.66.65 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, N.Leymann@telekom.de Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:50:24 -0000 For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was = your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen = country resolution)? On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: > On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: >> The screening is in general not different from the screenings at = other airports in Europe. >=20 > I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I = passed through. Very few people were. >=20 > Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL. >=20 > P. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From david.noveck@emc.com Thu Aug 1 05:06:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F389F21F9C12 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YqNvfdR8z0sP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5441D21E80E9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si02.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI02.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.55]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r71C5UTU000484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:37 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd06.lss.emc.com [10.254.222.130]) by hop04-l1d11-si02.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:20 -0400 Received: from mxhub17.corp.emc.com (mxhub17.corp.emc.com [10.254.93.46]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r71C5Kos025046; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:20 -0400 Received: from mx31a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.69]) by mxhub17.corp.emc.com ([10.254.93.46]) with mapi; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:19 -0400 From: "Noveck, David" To: Warren Kumari , Carsten Bormann Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:18 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Orlando subnet Thread-Index: Ac6OjCMGeOfcYLStSqmfdEQ133KVLwAIVk7Q Message-ID: <5DEA8DB993B81040A21CF3CB332489F6043157B577@MX31A.corp.emc.com> References: <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A520599@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <51F941A7.9010104@cisco.com> <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A52061F@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <79A25569-34D1-4D90-9ECC-FE216725E7CA@nostrum.com> <93707BF8-79D2-490F-8992-81F19CF6C79D@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Adam Roach Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando subnet X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:06:09 -0000 > This should help make things better.. More accurate, certainly. I'm mostly on my work VPN, so these services think I'm in Massachusetts. U= nderstandable. OTOH, every time I use google (in chrome) to search for something, it asks= me if I'd like to switch to google.de. Since leaving the U.S, I've only b= een on the ietf net or this VPN. Not sure if the google.de choice is due t= o looking at Berlin weather forecasts, using the BVG trip planner, or somet= hing else. -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Warren Kumari Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:52 AM To: Carsten Bormann Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org; Adam Roach; Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando subnet On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:46 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 1, 2013, at 01:08, Adam Roach wrote: >=20 >> Taiwan >=20 > I believe we should collect these experiences and tally the average laten= cy of the various services in picking up IETF's "movements". Warren points at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-google-self-published-ge= ofeeds-02 This should help make things better.. W >=20 > Taiwan is 5 meetings ago, Prague (which has been cited here) is 7 meeting= s ago. Wow. >=20 > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 -- "Real children don't go hoppity-skip unless they are on drugs." -- Susan, the ultimate sensible governess (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather) _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From dan@danwing.org Thu Aug 1 05:13:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0C821E80CC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:13:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V3X8oU8o5ksJ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rincewind.ksquared.net (rincewind.ksquared.net [216.129.106.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B965821F996A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rincewind.ksquared.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D28AB4E86 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rincewind.ksquared.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rincewind.ksquared.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59MEyvJF76fF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc-vpn5-704.cisco.com (128-107-239-233.cisco.com [128.107.239.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dwing) by rincewind.ksquared.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BF2E3B4E0D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Wing Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DB416913-32C4-4ABC-9C2D-34D2A9871F49" Message-Id: <603DA833-2790-44B9-875C-C1D08B2AD078@danwing.org> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:11:29 +0200 To: 87attendees@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] Ampelmann shop X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:13:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DB416913-32C4-4ABC-9C2D-34D2A9871F49 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There is an Ampelmann shop about 2km from the hotel on Ku'damm. = Worthwhile for an amusing souvenir and they have everything from = t-shirts to sink stoppers to with the red or green Berliner Ampelmann. = http://ampelmann.de -d --Apple-Mail=_DB416913-32C4-4ABC-9C2D-34D2A9871F49 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C67C2B6E-F092-4B72-BFCC-CE20FB3C99FC" --Apple-Mail=_C67C2B6E-F092-4B72-BFCC-CE20FB3C99FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii There is an Ampelmann shop about 2km from the hotel on Ku'damm.  Worthwhile for an amusing souvenir and they have everything from t-shirts to sink stoppers to with the red or green Berliner Ampelmann.  http://ampelmann.de

-d

AMPELLEUCHTE BASIC

--Apple-Mail=_C67C2B6E-F092-4B72-BFCC-CE20FB3C99FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=Ampelleuchte_Geher_s.jpg Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Ampelleuchte_Geher_s.jpg" Content-Id: <4BB7945C-2D87-4A16-8745-F855E45BF75D@cisco.com> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8SEhEP ERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEUHh4eHh4e Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wAARCABkAGQDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHAABAAMAAwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHCAIEBQMJ/8QAQBAAAQMDAQUFBAkCAwkAAAAA AQIDBAAFEQYHEiExQRNRYXGBIpGhsQgUFSMkMkJSYnKiksHRMzRDU2NzgpPC/8QAGwEBAAMBAQEB AAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQGBQf/xAAqEQACAQMDAwMDBQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBBESITEFQVETYYEicZEG obHR8P/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A2XSlKAUpXg6s1bZNMsBVyk/fKGW47Q3nV+Q6DxOBQHvUqidRbXr9 LWpFojsW1nopQ7V0+p9ke4+dQyfqzUsxRVJ1Bcl56CQpA9ycCraWRlGqaVkpu/Xtpe81ebkhXeJb n+te7Z9pOsbcsYu6piBzRLQHAfXgr400jUjTFKq/SO2C1T1ojX6P9mPK4B5J3mSfE80+uR41ZzLj bzSXWnEuNrG8lSTkKHeDVcEnKlKUApSlAKUrwtdaga03pyRcVBK3v9nHbP63DyHlzJ8AaA8Dahrx GnWzbLYUO3VxOSSMpjpPJSh1UeifU8OdDzpMiXJdlSnnH33Vbzjjit5Sj4mvpNkPypLsqU6p595Z W44rmpR5moNr6+yYzK4NtWW3DwdfTzT/ABT3HvPTpWkYlJM++q9Z2PT5U1KkKelAf7uwN5Y/q6J9 T6VXN72tXJ5DjVttjMQKBCXHHCtafEYwM++o3cIat5SjkknJJ61IdF2S2ajaEGXp9bTjACjcGFqQ hYB5LB4FR8OfHlWipuTwjju72FpT9Waylzxt+Wv23Oo1tY1EgguRLa6P+2pOfUKqQ2Pa3b3lpbu1 vdh5/wCKyrtEDzHAj4162ptnunLjHCozJhyQMb8YY3vNPI/Cqc1ZY3tPXYwHZDUg7gcStvI9k5xk HkeHKoq0Z09zl6b1q26h9MMqXhmj7bcYVxiIlQZLUhhf5VtqyD4eB8KnmzfaDP0pKRGfU5KtC1fe ME5Lf8m+4+HI+fGsZaZ1DctPTxKgPYST96yo+w6O4j/PmKvrS2oYeoLWidEVgn2XGyfabV1B/wBe tZZyfXxg3FbJ0S5W9ifBfQ/GfQFtuJPBQNdis/bAdYLtt6Gm5rv4Kcr8OVHg093DwVy88d9aBqGS mKUpUEiqQ27XdUvUrNpQo9lBaClD/qL4/BO77zV31mPW8ky9YXiQTnemOpHklW6PgkVaPJD4InqW 6ItVsXJUrC1KDbf9R6+gBNV+twXF0IbSpxauSUgkmm226LZuVtgpVhKWVvKHipW6Pgk15GzvVEe0 XntZy1NsOo7NTqU7ym+IO8B6ca0hjVhs5bmc6dKU4R1NdvJwvNv3UqOMEcCDwINSzZXPt/2ILW7N R9cEhYbjuLwSDxG6DzHPl1zXsau02b9CXcrY7uyVJSSFjCHcjhx6E9/XHrXa2D7KrsvUgvd5imKu IrejoXunB6uHmMAcvPyrqhGcJnkeqdQtOo2LjqxLtHvnx9js3vsrRapV0uKH24zDZUpfZn0A8ScD HjVA6u1Nb9RslybZjGuCBhuQw7kEdErBHEetbs13pBF/0bOs6h2iZDKk+0n8vA4Ke7BweHdX593y 3vwJz8SQ2W3mVqbWkjBCgcH5VF3NrCXBj+l7SEJydZNTWGt8bfHPv8HjKFSXZxfXLNqFtKlkRpJD bo6Z/Sr0PzqOLGDXDJScjgRxHnXAe+5NRQ5K0rbfZcKHEELQoc0qHEH31sLRd4Tf9K267jGZLCVL A6L5KH+IGsQ6RmGZZIr5OStpJPuFap+jhLVI2frjqOfq01xA8AQlXzUas+CEWZSlKqWBrLOpUKa1 FdGlfmTNeB/9iq1NWc9rdvVb9eXEYIbkqTJQe8LHH+4Kq0SJcGaNve8jVcJw/lXBAHotWfnUBQ+R 1q3dvFqVKssO7NJyqG6W3P6F4wfRQHvqprNbnrpcWoEdbKHnchvtV7qVKxwTnvPSp05ZnOcYRcpb JFgbNdpUnT25BukdVwtgPBIUA42P4k8CPA+hFay2G6pi6tt8mXDtUtm3xlpbYXJAG+eO9ucxw4Aj J6cuVY70noS5SdQJjXyM/Ahs4U+sj846JQRwJPwFaUsOsrXo2zJdfbRb7dHaCEdllKMdMp4kqPQA cT1512Utaj9Twj8+6vUsaF9CpQjqk+cbrf23Tb/25fkttBaKUgHOeuAKxH9LfS67XrT7dabSI1yG XClIADw4K4D9wGffUwa+kq9M1S+3NjmJYnEdkyW0/etEHg4vHPPIpHIcuXHnrm62rU1sejvssLjS UAK3TvqVyIUF4yePEY8qjEZwccml1f1ra8pVPSaXf3X9r3f8mUXedfI17+rrBIsVyUyslyOsksPf vT3HuUOorzLZCXPuLENscXVhJ8B1PuzXG4tPB7yhUjVpqcHlMu3Z+2pvTkJKs5DKPkK1X9GVpSdG z3TndXPIHo2is1WSOliG2gDAAGPAVrfYja1WvZxbUuJKXJIVJUCP3nI/t3aPg0XJNaUpVSwqtNvO n1TrIzfIyN56BkPYHEsq5n/xOD5E1ZdcXm0PNLadQlba0lKkqGQQeYNEDHVyisToT8KU2HGH0Ftx J6g1nnVlhmabvK4b28UZ347w4BxOeBHiOvca17tR0W/pa6F6Oha7TIV9w5z7M/8ALV4joeo8Qarf UdmgXy3qhXBnfRzQocFNq/ck9D8605M+CB6L2jMfVhC1EspcSMCVukhwDooDiFeI5+BqIa71ZK1J cM7y24TJIYazjP8ANQ/cfhXY1RoO82lxbsVs3CKOIcaT7aR/JPP3ZFRBaVIUUrBSocwRg1pKrKUc M+XQ6NaULh14R3f4X28HJSzU02ZzroHXWS6n7LaSe0U6eDRP7D0J69MVBya7UCHcJ/4eIy+8gnJS nO5nvPSqxel5Oq6tFcUnT8/JKNf6kizoxtcPckI3gpb5GQCOiT8zXe2a6cW0ftKU2UuLGG0kcUp7 /M/KvrpPQ/ZOIlXLdccHFKBxSk/5n4VY9qt7rz7UOGwt551QQ22hOVLUeQApJuTyy9rbQtaapwJB s7049qbU8K0NJPZLVvSFD9DSeKj7uA8SK16w02wyhlpAQ22kJQkcgAMAVCdkGh0aPshXKCF3WWAq SscQ2OjYPcOp6n0qc1k3k6khSlKgkUpSgOvcoUS4wXYU6O3IjvJ3XG1jIUKozX2ya525xyZp0LuE LmWOb7fgP3j4+B51fdKlPAaMWXNl7s3ow348gED2k4Uggg8QfLHHvrzZlrgTU/jITDqupW2D862b qDTFgvycXe0xZSuQWpGFjyUMEe+oXP2KaSfUVR3rlEz+lD4Wkf4gT8atqRXSZXTpmyoVvItsZJ8G xX3+z0svtKYQkNAELRuj0I+NaWZ2GacSvLt1uq09wLaf/mpBZdlWibYtLgtP1xxJyFS3C7/afZ+F NSGDOmkNH37U8hLVot7jjecLkL9llHmrl6DJrROzPZva9HtiU4pM26qThclScBsHmlsdB48z8Kmz DLTDSWWGkNNoGEoQkAAeAFc6q3klIUpSoJFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKA//Z --Apple-Mail=_C67C2B6E-F092-4B72-BFCC-CE20FB3C99FC-- --Apple-Mail=_DB416913-32C4-4ABC-9C2D-34D2A9871F49-- From paitken@cisco.com Thu Aug 1 05:33:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4414F11E80FA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mhhYBhzbwwym for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF9721F9E68 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=199; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375360018; x=1376569618; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZlLJyjdWGLUH6agDeZD5KFlPfkXUKWf51tI9iY+ZI28=; b=STt+wBsnCb6ZTlsCNVFX3QyU/5ysYZOvqQv8XhYg6yzG9dBDPqfjov8P 47c9K0CfyyWCciMNInFUzSG5LZ1QHl02+Fembid5TB3CTuqhIK+lO5AOD rrL4o3I1pF4sXoX34N0XTk5WgNITpcmK3kWFlPIMkK+6XiADLn74tSFOz 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhgFADpT+lGQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABbgwY2jFGyRYEgFnSCJAEBAQMBOEABBQsLIRYPCQMCAQIBRQYNAQcBAYgGBqoIj0+QBweEDAOXX4YkiyqDFQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,793,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="85348214" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:26:56 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r71CQsWk010300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:26:54 GMT Received: from [10.61.169.133] ([10.61.169.133]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r71CQqbQ003969; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:26:52 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FA540D.7060501@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:26:53 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, N.Leymann@telekom.de Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:33:18 -0000 Ben, > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country resolution)? LHR, so non-shengen. P. From moore@network-heretics.com Thu Aug 1 06:12:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0703C21F9D2B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.299, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eGdiN6A7yumn for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2970321E808C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id A601621514 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:10:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id:to :mime-version; s=smtpout; bh=bZv692Cj48IbYagEs368FtcTft0=; b=l6K z+PUc+sI1RoOrIlolwVd0Hpj7J3rjERCZKb24xMVYQgQqrmhBE2zlXqRF1QHytfp UcOswkTBR4u6pFBtbwr6Q5FgWA2YOY3DgQ6Nzg02WjfP+zUyiPVYeqvwuFxnH4cx sn4uDPZlKkEdP0LD8Asm31OiQJB69wvN/Qm+rF0s= X-Sasl-enc: tMUyQCSmXsx1UsuWwSUWwzCzPOdgIJs/h7yvTAyrk2F3 1375362602 Received: from dhcp-138f.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [130.129.19.143]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 53625680117 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Moore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:10:01 +0200 Message-Id: To: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Subject: [87attendees] apology to Suresh Krishnan, and the community X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:12:17 -0000 At the administrative plenary last night, I responded to something that = Suresh said by saying "I think you're being a jerk". What Suresh had said that I was responding to, actually was something = that offended me for reasons which are deeply personal and private. = However, there's no way that he could, or should, have known that. To = his credit, he came over afterward and calmly asked me for = clarification. I wish to apologize for my accusation. For the record, I don't think = Suresh is a jerk, and in my limited experience with him I have entirely = the opposite impression overall. I over-reacted to his comment in the = plenary, and in doing so I probably did a fair amount of damage - far = more than any offense caused to myself. I would also like to apologize = for that to the entire community. Keith From Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr Thu Aug 1 06:48:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F13D21E80C7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id quX1VlalxPbi for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D1C21E8182 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r71Dm6Gg063441; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:48:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201308011348.r71Dm6Gg063441@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Gordon Lennox In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:42:02 +0200. <35EF3371-A214-4B3D-AB94-0FB74DC4AF95@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:48:06 +0200 Sender: Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:48:22 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > And yesterday I got a message from Air France saying that I was now > leaving via Terminal C. => receiving the same (with an extra SMS) so we should be on the same Air France flight... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Thu Aug 1 06:51:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BF221E8182 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:51:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.238, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n0JWd6EpRYxd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og129.obsmtp.com (exprod7og129.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D6D21E818B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob129.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfpnr3OUjzI4mYp1a6Vap44txc0+EUdk@postini.com; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:50:39 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448611B8078 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A28C4190065 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:50:38 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: ief-nat64 network experiences? Thread-Index: AQHOjr4a5brCocLMHEiuzClwaRMlxQ== Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:50:37 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:51:04 -0000 I'm curious to know if anyone tried the ietf-nat64 network, and what they t= hought of it. My goal in asking the rest of the IESG and the NOC to agree to set up this = network was essentially to make it possible for us to eat our own dogfood. = Some IETFers are able to do everything they need to do on the v6only netw= ork, but for most of us there are too many services we routinely use that a= re not available that way. By setting up a (hopefully) production-quality nat64 network with a carrier= -grade switch and a carrier-grade DNS64 server, I was hoping that we could = provide a way to close that gap a bit, without forcing people to use a dual= -stack environment (the main IETF network). So I'm curious to hear how that went. Did you try the nat64 network? How= did it work for you? Were you able to remain on it for the whole IETF, o= r did you find that there were services you had to have that did not work? I'm not sure whether to encourage you to reply privately rather than to the= attendees list, just in case there are lots of responses, so I will leave = it to your judgment. If you see a dozen responses on the list, that's pro= bably enough, but I think a dozen would be nice so that people can see that= other people tried it and what their experiences were. I will try to sum= marize the responses I get that didn't go to the list, as well as the ones = that did. Oh, my results? I was on the nat64 network the whole week, whenever I was= not in my hotel room, where that ssid is not available. I almost never n= oticed that I was on the network; here are the issues I ran into: - ssh doesn't do happy eyeballs, and it tries IPv4 first, so that didn't go so well. - OpenVPN requires you to specify a transport, and it took me a while to figure this out, so I didn't have my VPN running until today. - The VoIP client I use on the Mac, Blink, got back a AAAA record and used the first four bytes of it as an IP address, which was interesting. As far as I can remember, that's it. So for me at least it was a success= =97this is the first IETF where I've gone IPv6 native for the majority of t= he week. Thank you for your participation! From christian.j.martin@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 07:30:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8EE21E8214 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:30:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r+rvg5ULgeKl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD54111E8115 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id oz10so2373381veb.17 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:29:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=j9iPtcjF9E5AN9lwWfkFCNv7ORS/qovAM+trsbVOdYQ=; b=vmXEaAoaUSliag0ZftbNumlqxd8mKqA5Ar0dfosRHwVa2YOPX0fbmCeJdcCA2DV4oS m97k1jeYzxQqRlkWi5OdQHlLjvUdj2iL8KLBJgTDSq6MhbU2Ov0xoTwMSzL8MAwa5N0f t6MRX0uKePV0aZO6B3LMMwg85in/Zlh+XCE6sh5elVToUa124x9/Dr/bZT6zeO2/UAOG C/66jGmx1UBdWS4AA8bLLUa3keUVAjBO94bmMpKYbjR1yZMvhwuj60SQSPaWrkIhpjJR ZBfWyNJ1KHbZOrmInAtvRK/e2j8gVuouYk9TZeVSFq5lXJ4lRzdldmqfpO8p7hDITtSM wjuQ== X-Received: by 10.220.184.202 with SMTP id cl10mr533488vcb.69.1375367346985; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.61.225.71] (mobile-198-228-193-084.mycingular.net. [198.228.193.84]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id dy4sm891154vdb.4.2013.08.01.07.29.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 07:29:05 -0700 (PDT) References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B146) From: Christian Martin Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:29:00 -0400 To: Ben Campbell Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Aitken , "N.Leymann@telekom.de" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 14:30:53 -0000 I flew out of TXL to EWR yesterday. Aside from the fact that the passport c= ontrol is immediately before the security gate and aside from the fact that t= he queue was as inconspicuous as it could be (TXL Term A is unusual in this w= ay - each gate has its own entrance from the check in area), the security ch= eck was standard for Shengen-USA flights. I took my shoes off and my laptop= , wallet, and belt and walked through the scanner. No wanding, pat-down, 20= questions, or bag-rummaging whatsoever. Cheers Chris Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was your= destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country resol= ution)? >=20 > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >=20 >> On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: >>> The screening is in general not different from the screenings at other a= irports in Europe. >>=20 >> I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I passed t= hrough. Very few people were. >>=20 >> Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL. >>=20 >> P. >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From keith@dns-oarc.net Thu Aug 1 07:42:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E9A21F9D62 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:42:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jBWrw801K53 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.dns-oarc.net (in1.dns-oarc.net [149.20.58.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5A111E8183 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen-keith.smoti.org (dhcp-5434.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.84.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.dns-oarc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FC43BDCFB; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 14:42:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keith@dns-oarc.net) Message-ID: <51FA73B6.5000503@dns-oarc.net> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:41:58 -0400 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: OARC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121025 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 14:42:55 -0000 On 08/01/2013 07:50 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was > your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen > country resolution)? Worse for US than non-Shengen than Shengen, at least in the past couple of months. Planning to check as much as I can. Keith From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 07:57:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616D621E80FF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.714, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id otBoaQ2WYK8f for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC5D21E80EF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:57:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375369070; x=1406905070; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QTY+AwJB4GsjD98R7maaXzvxptaUpaT0d4lp4jsMySs=; b=oNYNzS6bA69dGaUb2078SUmE4lntvsyXhiyevuLBSfn7DxDQjNQPl41n iM2emgqwEa0V/06sb0amTzeYwDIiGtArTj7sA2rUk6iLHtVRfRtHSb8gr Nc39S0uFO3SqXUlEtjFOeHsI/DG2YfpGTvK+UOXP0zDti9/zXWkkmJHHd A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66167795" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 07:57:47 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="523880893" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 07:57:47 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.17]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r71Evjfv013390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:57:45 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="523880876" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 07:57:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:46:50 -0700 To: Paul Aitken , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=C7=FD=D2=CB=CE=CB=C8_=D1=D3=CE=CF=FD=DA=D3=92?= , Warren Kumari , "Olle E. Johansson" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 14:57:55 -0000 At 11:09 AM +0100 8/1/13, Paul Aitken wrote: >>>> Please keep your name badges on, >>> =8A on the upper part of your body ;) >> =8Aon a clearly visible upper part of your body :-) > > If you have a clearly visible upper body part,=20 > then perhaps you got the wrong size of T shirt=20 > or you have a wardrobe malfunction ? > > Rephrasing: "clearly visible on an upper part of your clothing". > > - preferably on a part where it won't be=20 > awkward if others have to stare for a moment. Do we really need such detailed rules? At most=20 we should ask that people remember to wear their=20 name badges (I sometimes forget as well)=20 someplace visible. Do we really need to specify a protocol for if=20 someone has a shirt that is too short, or a gut=20 that is too large, and the badge is over the gut,=20 or is wearing a tank-top, or no shirt, and has=20 the badge on skin, or chooses to place the badge=20 on the crotch or breast (clothed or not)?=20 Perhaps there should be a rule that the badge=20 must be adhered to the forehead? In which case=20 perhaps we should be given headbands instead of=20 lanyards, and perhaps two badges (for forehead=20 and back of head), so people can identify us from=20 behind? -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- But, something that only exists in thought is even better, as you can read for yourself in my favorite book of (English) verse and drawings, "The Space-Child's Mother Goose" (Verses by Frederick Winsor, Illustrations by Marian Parry, Simon and Schuster, 1958, unfortunately out of print): I have a pet hen whose name is Probable. She lays eggs in concept, being a sophist bird. But not in reality at all; those would be inferior eggs; for thought is superior to reality. --unknown From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 08:10:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6541721E80BD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXYSiWo9QcI6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0EE21E8093 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:10:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375369815; x=1406905815; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=8WnVqmUk395sZLNsIRNBxsyPqrvP9PnOioaIG5ZBPVI=; b=CPj4TdZeKxWO11rWF33NqQWvJhvWTbTQpSzx9FnpZ8Ra05L/jp0Z32s4 dMqx76fkjeIaKv/rgHpMaIgP/SpHdEhqhwJdvkQi69MfsYm7x883BNffv cg5EKgZB4cTBwRPVzzZGOSkx7ruR3Sh0ePihm3h/48mE7rGLRG0v7hq6U 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48625049" Received: from ironmsg03-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.18]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 08:10:15 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="514114522" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 08:10:15 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.17]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r71FADpi014719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:10:13 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="523885745" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 08:10:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5DEA8DB993B81040A21CF3CB332489F6043157B577@MX31A.corp.emc.com> References: <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A520599@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <51F941A7.9010104@cisco.com> <824CBBAF26EC8E428BE32C12F75F93690A52061F@CH1PRD0810MB395.namprd08.pro d.outlook.com> <79A25569-34D1-4D90-9ECC-FE216725E7CA@nostrum.com> <93707BF8-79D2-490F-8992-81F19CF6C79D@tzi.org> <5DEA8DB993B81040A21CF3CB332489F6043157B577@MX31A.corp.emc.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:02:25 -0700 To: "Noveck, David" , Warren Kumari , Carsten Bormann From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Adam Roach Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando subnet X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:10:20 -0000 At 8:05 AM -0400 8/1/13, David Noveck wrote: > OTOH, every time I use google (in chrome) to search for something, > it asks me if I'd like to switch to google.de. Since leaving the > U.S, I've only been on the ietf net or this VPN. Not sure if the > google.de choice is due to looking at Berlin weather forecasts, > using the BVG trip planner, or something else. In my experience, Google this regardless of browser pretty much whenever I'm using an IP address from a non-U.S. country (I have not exhaustively tried all countries). Google never does this when the traffic is routed via SSH or VPN so it appears to be U.S.-based, but always does so when traffic is native. If you're seeing Google do this for traffic that is routed via tunnel to U.S., you might want to use whatismyip.org to verify that your IP address is tunneled. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality. --Oscar Wilde From randy@qti.qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 08:16:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A9521E8124 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:16:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSBeqqAyMasZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0718521E80BD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:16:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375370200; x=1406906200; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:from:subject: cc:mime-version; bh=7KP1AEPejaBz2664r5sxq0x41ruHOMvz7Fc5VEJ4aeo=; b=vw51PFGpdCwm8W5ruWzKhPRiktX/2p6cmpkxVbc05zxIvVAbD9/VO7Wi 21XWXYgkTKtf3Yu1t3lhbLzvTXGwPxbnCRpwI3skgLuQNOKUXQnH9rg2Z N9/K/SWx0xmU4fJFSB81nJWizHMu3Fl0sbst56NvTyuJSj34/Gq7KpKbl U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66170799" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 08:16:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="577430542" Received: from nasanexhc08.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.7]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 08:16:34 -0700 Received: from [10.35.200.44] (172.30.39.5) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:16:33 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:11:17 -0700 To: Ben Campbell , Paul Aitken From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Originating-IP: [172.30.39.5] Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, N.Leymann@telekom.de Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:16:45 -0000 At 1:50 PM +0200 8/1/13, Ben Campbell wrote: > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What > was your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other > non-shengen country resolution)? I am wondering the same thing. Every time I've flown out of TXL it has been to LHR, and security has been standard for Europe: laptops must come out, but shoes stay on and liquids can stay in. Very quick and easy. So I wondering if this is new, or specific to destination. (It's common for flights to the U.S. to have extra security, for example in HKG and NRT there is often an extra security check on the jetbridge or U.S.-bound gates are behind and extra security screening station.) -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Dr. Beverly Crusher to Wesley Crusher as he is about to beam down to begin his journey with the Traveler into other dimensions: "Be sure to dress warmly on those other planes of existence." From vdolmatov@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 08:31:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD3421E81E0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:31:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50HOLSZqR6AR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x234.google.com (mail-pb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7880321E8195 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so2206931pbc.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:31:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=LCiGz9G6mGjds7bCbSu6fsoazVRnvnKQPg1vC/vEHnI=; b=Tp2KrDxmMmGxSA9uD8r4xtzKMdYQ9yOGb2ADPzTeL48afT/N3AxM8Z4aTX/qf5tWVy OBKslKolkvglP8lDwRbuLMnB4SATJM7k8YRoIIx6PO3LNku4wzBPjCydTA9PTmCc/7v3 y1ABlQLY8O6eWz/3n8vaZ1kTRRhRcU8+dpQMmBfqCha6xZ3Tf6gFBh6va6zFysSdiV38 a20B6lX47QleYoNk0/URXQfIZKxEkFkyOdw73yHINYc0VeL6ULJM8q637vxe7cIsoV7t E6Cz/KQE4GlzOu/SH9wkRr+IC/t4U0Jw1MXvfyUEO+tWZA88fsX2NnYNe6TedjdRhLot GWng== X-Received: by 10.66.122.5 with SMTP id lo5mr4745904pab.175.1375371106224; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-15a9.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.21.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id kc8sm2020247pbc.18.2013.08.01.08.31.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvtC70LzQsNGC0L7Qsg==?= In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:31:39 +0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <57FD87C7-CFF1-43F1-B9C4-C6AFF5E5B5B9@gmail.com> References: <46875F47-7E2D-4D71-A0BE-DC52E1D72A83@gmail.com> <51FA33EE.1090609@cisco.com> To: Randall Gellens X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Warren Kumari , "Olle E. Johansson" , Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [87attendees] Name badges X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:31:50 -0000 On 01.08.2013, at 18:46, Randall Gellens wrote: > > Perhaps there should be a rule that the badge > must be adhered to the forehead? In which case > perhaps we should be given headbands instead of > lanyards, and perhaps two badges (for forehead > and back of head), so people can identify us from > behind? Good idea! And it has been successfully tested here, I saw tester near mic on some WG ;) dol@ From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Thu Aug 1 09:04:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D65321E80BE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vsg-IAaWuUOL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3400521E8088 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfqHH6MNf1Cgxi9nQE1UiSXy3vSHOZm/@postini.com; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:04:49 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9CD1B8275 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2DBA190065; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.132]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:04:45 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Tim Shepard Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? Thread-Index: AQHOjpRd9t7YLrgOb02TUPB7irczvZmA+eCA Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:04:44 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C9AB@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5C6EE7471C56C748A024E59D2652A770@nominum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Robert Moskowitz , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Seven-bit shirts? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:04:56 -0000 On Aug 1, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Tim Shepard wrote: > IMO, radix-50 (aka squoze) was even weirder. =20 radix-50 was a very interesting puzzle for me in 7th grade. From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 09:08:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9044C21E8153 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:08:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XJJvE-yFsbPG for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22b.google.com (mail-pd0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1BF21E80BE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f171.google.com with SMTP id bv13so1983891pdb.2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:08:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HJUS7fEmkWSTcP43rdS7oORnPyK6p9wNAsMal93ay/E=; b=Ol6ZeNEt2Tj0/YNCHTMvk901ZMW2/AjoRsF+IRKO6RJV0V6tnAuwmLnxsPiZ7sgVhD J9RQxZR7XFaojxR0ZNvCsAAHETxoHA4KjCmfa+LxoJhKqm8425nACWg14NHTTN8r031f gcQSdfFxMbbxh8z9M55uRcQ8bf95EjIz/b5yV5veV7ZdagyJ8cCBa59VJEqypTrcQvvB ffkM2zEnfN0RRtBe/VKFHWeYP+P2/QMR1FX407cp5YP/9oqWM7ajsB4hBemYMSy1BoTU XirdIBFVplF1mKzSJeln3C9+IayFT7JSkzmiH+kbNeX3dqy5wRbqwCHk7uMxTZYVq1Hv +G4A== X-Received: by 10.68.136.230 with SMTP id qd6mr2942569pbb.134.1375373304997; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8:0:64:355f:3fc:e77d:3274? ([2001:df8:0:64:355f:3fc:e77d:3274]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id zv11sm5048879pab.3.2013.08.01.09.08.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FA87F5.1010207@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:08:21 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Carlos M. Martinez" References: <835B35D1-B608-432F-8A10-E15569E8F570@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <835B35D1-B608-432F-8A10-E15569E8F570@lacnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] The dramatic impact ... X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:08:26 -0000 On 7/31/2013 1:29 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > … of packet size in relation to throughput was noted by the hotel staff, so they wisely substituted 0.2something coke bottles with 0.5l ones. Ahhh, much better ! > > I echo the comments on the mic. Berlin has (and still is!) a wonderful and very enjoyable venue. I thought about sending a thank-you about this yesterday, but was afraid it was a mistake that would be corrected if I said anything. Now that Carlos has revealed this to all- thank you, IAD/secretariat/IAOC! Spencer From ben@nostrum.com Thu Aug 1 10:45:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCC611E8130 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wio2K5UvSH0p for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CD611E80F9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-4241.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-4241.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.66.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r71Hj8NK091400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:45:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:45:06 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 130.129.66.65 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 17:45:12 -0000 Has anyone taken the 6:55 BA flight to LHR? If so, how early should one = arrive? On Aug 1, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Randall Gellens = wrote: > At 1:50 PM +0200 8/1/13, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 >> For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was = your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen = country resolution)? >=20 > I am wondering the same thing. Every time I've flown out of TXL it = has been to LHR, and security has been standard for Europe: laptops must = come out, but shoes stay on and liquids can stay in. Very quick and = easy. So I wondering if this is new, or specific to destination. (It's = common for flights to the U.S. to have extra security, for example in = HKG and NRT there is often an extra security check on the jetbridge or = U.S.-bound gates are behind and extra security screening station.) >=20 > --=20 > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself = only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Dr. Beverly Crusher to Wesley Crusher as he is about to beam down to > begin his journey with the Traveler into other dimensions: "Be sure to > dress warmly on those other planes of existence." From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 12:04:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C4721F9AF5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.043 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.444, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6mdWJGIFG4G for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE7621F941F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:04:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375383847; x=1406919847; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=u5WxdlxdNndqSdld6MlYP+9vtcxhRnRQccApXElZ4IY=; b=S9gm0m0S0Chdu92ZlC7hQze/EakGkCvFwCgF7EWsh/RKSrW5ZaY5GIIz 7fNGwgqobZIvQlNieumUK+Fimg3MPJM9m5RwAQSODeTbh7q0ZK7oiAQmH BBz4jBN4wRqpyURw5+EwBDHG98ln7T7VUTbOoukSrLfNXJfgd+YiZDv6A Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48747750" Received: from ironmsg02-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.16]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:04:06 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85304441" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 12:04:06 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r71J41GB011331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:04:03 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="514237024" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:03:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:57:00 -0700 To: Scott Brim , Melinda Shore From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:04:12 -0000 At 10:07 AM +0200 7/29/13, Scott Brim wrote: > +1. I really appreciate chatty jabberers. I do as well. My experience has been that in years past, Jabber scribers really did try and capture a sense of what was going on, which was terrifically useful for people trying to follow, but that since audio has been widespread, Jabber scribers now do little more than say what the topic is and relay questions/comments from people via Jabber to the room and do not attempt to capture what is happening in the room. And I speak as someone who used to volunteer to Jabber scribe, and always did my best to capture what was happening. Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are some who still do. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Few ideas are really bad. Most are either pre- or post-mature. --Jon Postel From randy@qti.qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 12:14:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81AAB11E80F1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymUYIyNRJhi8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE3E11E8131 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:14:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375384470; x=1406920470; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:from:subject: cc:mime-version; bh=DSWU6Hm9J3/10vdMJ7eOZdyyq1TKqRno/IbweWVtLJA=; b=xjlXgpSZx3xKKe1XCQ3ziUY+YaXBHYmeBWTmriAc0bDs1FxjYXM96ybz /lbQGq9xoKq7jzSEpeOhnSStSCgjwD+v+4eFBmhzrBvPNAd/6a2kuhzLr mZgO95ck8v/22d7oNt6bPms2UoHq0eaUXwbGM7T3ntcS8RHgoTR2oxdp6 k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66072646" Received: from ironmsg03-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.18]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:14:29 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="514240112" Received: from nasanexhc08.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.7]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 12:14:29 -0700 Received: from [10.35.200.44] (172.30.39.5) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:14:28 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD592304394C0B3B@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.co m> References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD592304394C0B3B@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.co m> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:10:03 -0700 To: "George, Wes" , "Joel M. Halpern" , Melinda Shore From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Originating-IP: [172.30.39.5] Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" , Peter Saint-Andre Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:14:35 -0000 At 5:50 AM -0400 7/29/13, Wes George wrote: > non-native/quiet speaker, etc - i.e. the same things that make it > hard to follow on the audio stream, unfortunately. Even in "turn > your brain off and type" mode, I have on more than one occasion > declared defeat after losing the thread. That has happened to me when Jabber scribing and also note taking, but then, it's the same if I'm just sitting there trying to follow along. Sometimes I just can't make out enough of the words to be able to follow. Seeing someone else's attempt in the Jabber would be a help, but these days usually all that's in there is "slide x." -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The challenge of computer science is: How NOT to make a mess of it. -Edsger W. Dijkstra From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 12:44:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CC121E80CB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:44:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f2yGx5hfxyJt for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DCC21F9EE9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:43:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375386239; x=1406922239; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:content-type; bh=d168oiS6WfToViilmRBA5WywB0/jyVP1sFmYd4dXUGk=; b=aTZZ5K6Lfky2qksxb9ITOvjAaBTlgs87Xi8g+IlZJQZYjFp837BiP5XM /oSAiusGf00jFDiwFZv6z0O0raS0rqBwUgm2mfJieXCCZeRwRPp9P13cY SEGvZuLnjoY+DMDHrl9ni0zyWOuwwQtW/RyLyfnuSE/gGlUwZFpvDTlpU c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,796,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48750339" Received: from unknown (HELO Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com) ([172.30.48.19]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:43:58 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="488989831" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 12:43:58 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.19]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r71JhwkG016358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:43:58 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="488989830" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:43:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <48BF3374-ECB9-46E7-AFC5-C0E50BC76531@isoc.org> References: <48BF3374-ECB9-46E7-AFC5-C0E50BC76531@isoc.org> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:41:14 -0700 To: Ray Pelletier , <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] InterCon has power adapters X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:44:28 -0000 At 10:50 AM +0200 7/26/13, Ray Pelletier wrote: > You can get power adapters at the front desk of the InterCon. They > will charge 20 EUR per adapter on your room and credit it back with > their return. It's quite standard for hotels to have a supply of power adapters for their guests. Generally they are available from Housekeeping. Some hotels will charge you a deposit which they refund on check-out when you return the adapter, many don't. > I found this out when my US power strip smoked when plugged into an > adapter. Absent those 6 outlets I needed more adapters. Sorry to hear this. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act.... Plainly the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of liberty. --Abraham Lincoln From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Thu Aug 1 12:51:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB0421E8220 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.963 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.963 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.636, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zR0hqHx0DP3N for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA89A21E822C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375386667; x=1406922667; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=4QuZ7QB862Aj9zdLik89Kp8ijKbI3q591vAuQf2n6Go=; b=PZyefuucNUX8uaEZvQbcheWSV4tE8zwTCecz2+/l5kISJMUnniGwZ8j2 HDWi0uLUc/TTK02jle1Yz/ytuFclnv1n45fEmF0ErvMo41EVYDyIX7mdq teKrl/K+9BRE2yN4lLpp9g/iQJiKFRr245iVvxuZ9mvs2RxytepP3mObi M=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,796,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66078134" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:51:07 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,795,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="488995659" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Aug 2013 12:51:06 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.17]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r71Jp5Fh017229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:51:05 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,796,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="524025077" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2013 12:51:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:43:32 -0700 To: Samuel Weiler From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:51:18 -0000 At 6:25 AM -0400 7/25/13, Samuel Weiler wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Randall Gellens wrote: > >> Can anyone comment on what the meeting room temperatures are >> likely to be on average? Being summer, it would be nice to be >> able to pack light and rely on shorts and T-shirts. > > Over the last 48 hours or so: the AC in one Intercontinental > meeting room (sorry, limited datapoints) has ranged from adequate > to inadequate but has not been excessive. I think you'll be > comfortable in shorts, especially on Sunday, when the outside > temperature is forecast to be 99 (F). > > Past performance and all that. So far, I've been very comfortable in shorts and sandals, both in sessions and outside walking around. IMHO, this is much nicer than places where the hotter it is outside, the colder they make the meeting rooms (or places where it is cold indoors and out). -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Never knock the way the other cat swings. --Neal Cassady From ynir@checkpoint.com Thu Aug 1 15:38:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA00811E81A7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:38:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.471 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.471 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.128, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0wSqnsbh7gkQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DFC21E829E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r71MDmrv005904; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:13:48 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FADD9C-22-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:13:47 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Ted Lemon Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Audio Recordings Thread-Index: AQHOjoYBE0MywX880kyL1MeeKceYJpl/v1eAgAD2QICAAAPaAA== Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:13:47 +0000 Message-ID: <68A9FB2A-CB78-4609-9977-B4CBCDDEFD63@checkpoint.com> References: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523D405@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523D405@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.173] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11efb66f340052944a8b348f4b6d3f24946e8d45ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57F8BD05E3081446A5C3EE2E893D55DB@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore Subject: Re: [87attendees] Audio Recordings X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:38:21 -0000 On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> Yes, but the session I'm looking for was not recorded by Meetecho. >=20 > But the cookies were good today. >=20 > If you want meetecho support for a meeting, you should ask the working gr= oup chairs to request it. It's done on a by-request basis. I forgot to request it. No matter, I found the regular audio recording, downloaded it, and now I ca= n look forward to reliving the meeting on the flight home while compiling t= he minutes. From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Thu Aug 1 15:47:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2E621E83CE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:47:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EVUo0thMdjUh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og101.obsmtp.com (exprod7og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.155]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E06221E82DE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfrgpGOhfZqbuQs4zM0Rb5zuftVA2/OC@postini.com; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:26:45 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1501B8257 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 850E3190065; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.132]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:00:00 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Yoav Nir Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Audio Recordings Thread-Index: AQHOjoX9VqcfE7704kS8h7jjYvASNpmAZvsAgAD2RIA= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:59:59 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523D405@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <51FA0946.9050801@nomountain.net> <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <175FACD0-D28F-4258-B2AD-A67C008EB9ED@checkpoint.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore Subject: Re: [87attendees] Audio Recordings X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:47:59 -0000 On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Yes, but the session I'm looking for was not recorded by Meetecho. But the cookies were good today. If you want meetecho support for a meeting, you should ask the working grou= p chairs to request it. It's done on a by-request basis. From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 16:04:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EEE521E83CD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.240, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73iHpy4xeC25 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B394021E8359 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r71MahS5013210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:36:43 +0200 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r71MagBd019033 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:36:42 +0200 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([132.166.86.1]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r71MagmL032640 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:36:42 +0200 Message-ID: <51FAE2FA.8040304@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:36:42 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <201308011348.r71Dm6Gg063441@givry.fdupont.fr> In-Reply-To: <201308011348.r71Dm6Gg063441@givry.fdupont.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 23:04:41 -0000 Le 01/08/2013 15:48, Francis Dupont a écrit : > In your previous mail you wrote: > >> And yesterday I got a message from Air France saying that I was >> now leaving via Terminal C. > > => receiving the same (with an extra SMS) so we should be on the > same Air France flight... Yes, there are excuses and explanations : > Nous vous informons que des travaux sont en cours au Terminal D de > l''aéroport de Berlin Tegel Airport du 20 au 31 juillet 2013 inclus. > Pendant cette période, tous les vols Air France et KLM partiront du > Terminal C. L''enregistrement des passagers et la dépose de leurs > bagages se fera également dans ce terminal. En revanche, le comptoir > vente de l''aéroport et le salon Air France - KLM resteront au > Terminal A. Alex > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing > list 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 16:27:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCC411E825A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:27:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.243 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.243 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwhcSX49GchZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-x231.google.com (mail-ee0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c00::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E2011E8297 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ee0-f49.google.com with SMTP id d41so1271509eek.36 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:51:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QFTqfvBHZLqrfXdM7qP6xk/JriFpHBkCoNwjILZhbbE=; b=vr7kRKL28ZQOVGvpifVpSF93N3Og8xpsVwxkiESX4ZvdYbCLhkjoGbjnxY7SI8rLeF 05wShXRbYsFUlffGnuevEvBuVgt/7iAujhO+NVQcbD45wRmWH53/KI3RN3emSJ3eqTM/ SP9oqLS0B+OWIVZj0tCnyVEQL3ehGQlxGbmG2sWD+/zQz5o9xKkkYWRv66TtWXaZkigy K/1aT/6qng5Sknobe5oFq62bFFIhK/AnN2SlJ+MPReEIVYWZVr4S7cpGv31wrmohJ5hp AIvijUdkNNiWI7B9gzw0zZz4V0IQlwdBCHvSrr6dksEHMeGBk2N0xybUu+nEh89k+Krg UZZg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.221.198 with SMTP id r46mr3352731eep.18.1375397514265; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.84.130 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 15:51:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: Ted Lemon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b66f68143726604e2eab0e4 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 23:27:05 -0000 --047d7b66f68143726604e2eab0e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ted, I am now using a personal netbook running Win7 starter for almost all of my IETF work, so this was the first time I dorked around with some flavor of ipv6 at IETF week. The only site I had problems with on IETF-nat64 was Google drive. I didn't use hundreds of applications, but everything else I did worked. Unfortunately, I was flat-out all week, using Google Docs for all my note-taking, and had to switch back to keep going, so I don't know what caused the problem I had - but I'll check more closely in Vancouver. Thank you for putting this in place. Spencer On Thursday, August 1, 2013, Ted Lemon wrote: > I'm curious to know if anyone tried the ietf-nat64 network, and what they > thought of it. > > My goal in asking the rest of the IESG and the NOC to agree to set up thi= s > network was essentially to make it possible for us to eat our own dogfood= . > Some IETFers are able to do everything they need to do on the v6only > network, but for most of us there are too many services we routinely use > that are not available that way. > > By setting up a (hopefully) production-quality nat64 network with a > carrier-grade switch and a carrier-grade DNS64 server, I was hoping that = we > could provide a way to close that gap a bit, without forcing people to us= e > a dual-stack environment (the main IETF network). > > So I'm curious to hear how that went. Did you try the nat64 network? > How did it work for you? Were you able to remain on it for the whole > IETF, or did you find that there were services you had to have that did n= ot > work? > > I'm not sure whether to encourage you to reply privately rather than to > the attendees list, just in case there are lots of responses, so I will > leave it to your judgment. If you see a dozen responses on the list, > that's probably enough, but I think a dozen would be nice so that people > can see that other people tried it and what their experiences were. I > will try to summarize the responses I get that didn't go to the list, as > well as the ones that did. > > Oh, my results? I was on the nat64 network the whole week, whenever I > was not in my hotel room, where that ssid is not available. I almost > never noticed that I was on the network; here are the issues I ran into: > > - ssh doesn't do happy eyeballs, and it tries IPv4 first, > so that didn't go so well. > - OpenVPN requires you to specify a transport, and it took > me a while to figure this out, so I didn't have my VPN > running until today. > - The VoIP client I use on the Mac, Blink, got back a AAAA > record and used the first four bytes of it as an IP > address, which was interesting. > > As far as I can remember, that's it. So for me at least it was a > success=97this is the first IETF where I've gone IPv6 native for the majo= rity > of the week. > > Thank you for your participation! > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b66f68143726604e2eab0e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ted,

I=A0am now using a personal netbook running Win= 7 starter for almost all of my IETF work, so this was the first time I dork= ed around with some flavor of ipv6 at IETF week.

Th= e only site I had problems with on IETF-nat64 was Google drive. I didn'= t use hundreds of applications, but everything else I did worked. Unfortuna= tely, I was flat-out all week, using Google Docs for all my note-taking, an= d had to switch back to keep going, so I don't know what caused=A0the problem I had=A0- but I'll check more closely in Vancouver.=

Thank you for putting this in place.

Spencer

On Thursday, August 1, 2013, Ted Lemon wrote:
I'm curious to know if anyone tried the ietf-nat64 network, and what th= ey thought of it.

My goal in asking the rest of the IESG and the NOC to agree to set up this = network was essentially to make it possible for us to eat our own dogfood. = =A0 Some IETFers are able to do everything they need to do on the v6only ne= twork, but for most of us there are too many services we routinely use that= are not available that way.

By setting up a (hopefully) production-quality nat64 network with a carrier= -grade switch and a carrier-grade DNS64 server, I was hoping that we could = provide a way to close that gap a bit, without forcing people to use a dual= -stack environment (the main IETF network).

So I'm curious to hear how that went. =A0Did you try the nat64 network?= =A0 How did it work for you? =A0 Were you able to remain on it for the who= le IETF, or did you find that there were services you had to have that did = not work?

I'm not sure whether to encourage you to reply privately rather than to= the attendees list, just in case there are lots of responses, so I will le= ave it to your judgment. =A0 If you see a dozen responses on the list, that= 's probably enough, but I think a dozen would be nice so that people ca= n see that other people tried it and what their experiences were. =A0 I wil= l try to summarize the responses I get that didn't go to the list, as w= ell as the ones that did.

Oh, my results? =A0 I was on the nat64 network the whole week, whenever I w= as not in my hotel room, where that ssid is not available. =A0 I almost nev= er noticed that I was on the network; here are the issues I ran into:

- ssh doesn't do happy eyeballs, and it tries IPv4 first,
=A0 so that didn't go so well.
- OpenVPN requires you to specify a transport, and it took
=A0 me a while to figure this out, so I didn't have my VPN
=A0 running until today.
- The VoIP client I use on the Mac, Blink, got back a AAAA
=A0 record and used the first four bytes of it as an IP
=A0 address, which was interesting.

As far as I can remember, that's it. =A0 So for me at least it was a su= ccess=97this is the first IETF where I've gone IPv6 native for the majo= rity of the week.

Thank you for your participation!

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
--047d7b66f68143726604e2eab0e4-- From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 17:15:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9705011E839A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:15:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.538 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.538 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g1IbvqRS-2sk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x22a.google.com (mail-ea0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EC711E8485 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f170.google.com with SMTP id h14so1285983eak.15 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:29:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YZXMgGKqyNFmT8MYdHoOr88U74JJs0v8PzIUWvQUpt0=; b=UgoDwt1UeNHy6u9tjOtT1xBjjVIo+DR94EjQI+V1+ndyUuNebwjY+/ZJYnqUc6Pm6T R/VCCiT7F+O1gzQ4fB3S0eGrELAK+DHUyzRpE7GtEP+68k7g1AulkZSIlMDH4GjfsGyw ZJN4FFPXMUZzLNXsGvfINQ2D3U7R62wYP+KO/Mt1kJfHZuBeRjBfCvWAqnNmQZQlbRyt Dr8oIe19hQRZN/hE+4lrb3hAKZas8jruan69GupLuIxg/bNugfLCoJ2qLeIbFWwFva3p SiS34DSQv1q3SXfSLMm6bXUvzhGgrirymd5gqH5ke9S1O03iRBKy6av20NB4CAA9QqA9 GFtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.15.54.198 with SMTP id t46mr3399333eew.74.1375399745917; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.84.130 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 16:29:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:29:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: Christian Martin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3f8f847c38904e2eb35bc Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ben Campbell , Paul Aitken , "N.Leymann@telekom.de" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:15:24 -0000 --001a11c3f8f847c38904e2eb35bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm on Air Berlin 7420 to ORD on Saturday morning. That looks like it's Terminal C, which does have a central area inside security. My question is, does anyone know if there's a food court or anything like that inside security? Thanks, Spencer, who spent some time Googling and can't find a website that says definitively what terminal I'm flying out of :-) On Thursday, August 1, 2013, Christian Martin wrote: > I flew out of TXL to EWR yesterday. Aside from the fact that the passport > control is immediately before the security gate and aside from the fact > that the queue was as inconspicuous as it could be (TXL Term A is unusual > in this way - each gate has its own entrance from the check in area), the > security check was standard for Shengen-USA flights. I took my shoes off > and my laptop, wallet, and belt and walked through the scanner. No > wanding, pat-down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging whatsoever. > > Cheers > Chris > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Ben Campbell > > wrote: > > > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was > your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country > resolution)? > > > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken > > wrote: > > > >> On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: > >>> The screening is in general not different from the screenings at other > airports in Europe. > >> > >> I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I > passed through. Very few people were. > >> > >> Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL. > >> > >> P. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 87attendees mailing list > >> 87attendees@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 87attendees mailing list > > 87attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --001a11c3f8f847c38904e2eb35bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm on Air Berlin 7420 to ORD on Saturday morning. That looks like it&#= 39;s Terminal C, which does have a central area inside security.=A0
My question is, does anyone know if there's a food court or= anything like that inside security?

Thanks,=A0

Spencer, who spent = some time Googling and can't find a website that says definitively what= terminal I'm flying out of :-)=A0

On Thursday, Aug= ust 1, 2013, Christian Martin wrote:
I flew out of TXL to EWR yesterday. =A0Aside= from the fact that the passport control is immediately before the security= gate and aside from the fact that the queue was as inconspicuous as it cou= ld be (TXL Term A is unusual in this way - each gate has its own entrance f= rom the check in area), the security check was standard for Shengen-USA fli= ghts. =A0I took my shoes off and my laptop, wallet, and belt and walked thr= ough the scanner. =A0No wanding, pat-down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging w= hatsoever.

Cheers
Chris

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com= > wrote:

> For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: =A0What wa= s your destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen countr= y resolution)?
>
> On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken <paitken@c= isco.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wr= ote:
>>> The screening is in general not different from the screenings = at other airports in Europe.
>>
>> I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I = passed through. Very few people were.
>>
>> Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL.
>>
>> P.
>> _______________________________________________
>> 87attendees mailing list
>> 87attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
--001a11c3f8f847c38904e2eb35bc-- From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Thu Aug 1 22:12:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E3021F9A1E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:12:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gIafuL7Jd8wE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFD611E8210 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.25.11.186] ([46.189.28.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r725Caxm038267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:12:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: Host [46.189.28.54] claimed to be [10.25.11.186] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:12:36 +0200 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:12:43 -0000 Any thoughts about where one might get connectivity after the main IETF = network is shut down this afternoon? The wired access in the Pullman has = gone to hell (constant disconnection). Did anyone find free or = inexpensive-but-reliable Wifi near the IC? I'm happy to sit in a cafe = and buy beverages for a few hours if I can get some work done. --Paul Hoffman= From coverdale@sympatico.ca Thu Aug 1 22:28:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1B321F9F7A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:28:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.051 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.745, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pv3qzL5bl5Ns for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc2-s32.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s32.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.107]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88D811E81CC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU0-SMTP11 ([65.55.111.71]) by blu0-omc2-s32.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:28:48 -0700 X-EIP: [s3i5XNGNvKirrZzOrmbEbwRvRdd2IEHy] X-Originating-Email: [coverdale@sympatico.ca] Message-ID: Received: from PaulNewPC ([46.189.28.117]) by BLU0-SMTP11.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:28:45 -0700 From: Paul Coverdale To: "'Paul Hoffman'" , <87attendees@ietf.org> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:28:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6PPxlFSFyD79ZMQ463CyaPbz7cdQAAa+qA Content-Language: en-us X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2013 05:28:45.0452 (UTC) FILETIME=[2871DCC0:01CE8F41] Subject: Re: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:28:55 -0000 I've had no problem all week with the "event" wifi network in the Pullman, but when will it be closed down? ...Paul >-----Original Message----- >From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 7:13 AM >To: 87attendees@ietf.org >Subject: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? > >Any thoughts about where one might get connectivity after the main IETF >network is shut down this afternoon? The wired access in the Pullman has >gone to hell (constant disconnection). Did anyone find free or >inexpensive-but-reliable Wifi near the IC? I'm happy to sit in a cafe >and buy beverages for a few hours if I can get some work done. > >--Paul Hoffman >_______________________________________________ >87attendees mailing list >87attendees@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From andre@monsterpenguin.de Thu Aug 1 22:32:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DD111E81CC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:32:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9YezV5Aee-tQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from randomhost.de (randomhost.de [81.169.134.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A3011E821D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from digitalrechner (cpe-0018f841fb5c.ip-pool.rftonline.net [212.37.187.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by randomhost.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E0282A1C013; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:32:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:30:53 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOp?= Niemann To: Paul Hoffman Message-ID: <20130802073053.699766ff@digitalrechner> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.17; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:32:29 -0000 > free or inexpensive-but-reliable Wifi near the IC? I'm happy to sit > in a cafe and buy beverages for a few hours if I can get some work > done. if you walk from IC to the zoo Entrance/trainstation(~200m) there is a small cafee or so where you can sit outside, where are drinks and sandwhich and they say free wifi if i remember correctly, maybe somebody can confirm? andre From sanjay.mishra@verizon.com Thu Aug 1 22:58:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAC211E822F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:58:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CezFuKWDxcD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204B311E823D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:58:29 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi02.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.144]) by omzsmtpe01.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 05:58:28 +0000 From: "Mishra, Sanjay" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,799,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="519204743" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb04.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.191]) by fldsmtpi02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 05:58:28 +0000 Received: from fhdp1lumxc7v23.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.159]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.191]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:58:27 -0400 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Niemann?= , Paul Hoffman Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:58:26 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? Thread-Index: Ac6PQbBySPp0heiFRGie5OM1mJdntgAA3M6g Message-ID: <900A1E2059ADB149B905E3C8FA0046A62C77FB997B@FHDP1LUMXC7V23.us.one.verizon.com> References: <20130802073053.699766ff@digitalrechner> In-Reply-To: <20130802073053.699766ff@digitalrechner> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:58:34 -0000 Yes, I have seen the sign posted outside the caf=E9 with free wifi access. = The caf=E9 is on the right hand side of IC when you walk out on Budapester = Str. Sanjay -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Andr=E9 Niemann Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 7:31 AM To: Paul Hoffman Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Connectivity Friday afternoon? > free or inexpensive-but-reliable Wifi near the IC? I'm happy to sit in=20 > a cafe and buy beverages for a few hours if I can get some work done. if you walk from IC to the zoo Entrance/trainstation(~200m) there is a smal= l cafee or so where you can sit outside, where are drinks and sandwhich and= they say free wifi if i remember correctly, maybe somebody can confirm? andre _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From absoumaila@yahoo.fr Thu Aug 1 23:21:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D7411E81B0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:21:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id clOf5x68dSMP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.200]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B57A11E8191 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [77.238.189.49] by nm2.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2013 06:21:21 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.78] by tm2.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2013 06:21:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp115.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2013 06:21:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.fr; s=s1024; t=1375424481; bh=N3g4XVcTg3fiWl/d/33BiGgDidSfNQVcUGTSWG/5dSI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=Lb7n8CwHps7SY8fky4Jx0nTZ+rNRlK35+nacJX1aWW4nR8GEgIO7OlFZVDW2bj0NlYlULcQhhH9pcOqAxLHC7MlQBtSylbFrT2zVaByUJ0h9gW9B6xvoyeVWyGmkn3324cN1NlWWeOztjsFgmgNY0heRkJC/Rx+TQFo/ZlkvmbA= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 607613.96735.bm@smtp115.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: kf.2TJAVM1l_xXrnTdYvXa4NMpbUeh4hjIkAwK3QnnIAsNC 8NvyhhuI.JSXdruy5dkPeH_E6VAAJF0oDJeEp2DerC3Lf_l6Ic6fIbp__aJh XRfk3RDuiMQfonqUQigu3CVd1IyOl9p0k7cBbEQkyfww8jpTfhH1g.DrSw4N hBwELv2PIJRH0t5IDxr3aORI.pTwdc0hsj5F9Vs0qpit1sg8wluIkTOtdxLv .FFpdlHkStEaIBp.lCdRfm0FHLXg6AKSbJ2zOJ9Vg8uIiksFi3vqtZmuG5i7 rNpLug_hneO2xtqlUswR0oDt3bfMcaZR2vSphjSdAiSW3HF3kUkN6yutxcWR yOUAkQV6VDOIDe.NzG1dF1yvuHeuhvgS4Ut3NW.f5wjc2bVQnVPLCD_AxuoN 9EFXjKqY3G2dyniEPd22.Bh2QEovNJbCyR59u3SKNIxtyV0sfuwO8U1KmwcK 2z7trBQkj72mHGB5M9uyn9xsMof2HWf8GYm3TGGEAL0YeTBiJ9eMC7ekgUUx EWz0ifqdRDg-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: yXj9xVSswBAZv8uckXnue_eMCUf1JGY- X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.2.108] (absoumaila@84.190.184.2 with ) by smtp115.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Aug 2013 06:21:21 +0000 UTC References: <201308011348.r71Dm6Gg063441@givry.fdupont.fr> In-Reply-To: <201308011348.r71Dm6Gg063441@givry.fdupont.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8L1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <1366D4F6-77FF-4220-9D1F-5E2694E24ACE@yahoo.fr> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8L1) From: Abdoulkarim Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:21:20 +0200 To: Francis Dupont Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Gordon Lennox , Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:21:31 -0000 Yes Dupont I m at airport now to Paris On Aug 1, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Francis Dupont wrote: > In your previous mail you wrote: > >> And yesterday I got a message from Air France saying that I was now >> leaving via Terminal C. > > => receiving the same (with an extra SMS) so we should be on the same > Air France flight... > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From sp@iphh.net Fri Aug 2 00:27:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE12D11E827F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id braJDYxRGJ8s for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from intranet-mail.server.iphh.net (intranet-mail.iphh.net [IPv6:2001:868:0:180::2:1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FABB11E8253 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [2001:868:0:203::102] (port=53918 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by intranet-mail.server.iphh.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V59lr-0006kD-Ns for 87attendees@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:27:31 +0200 Message-ID: <51FB5F5F.5000905@iphh.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:27:27 +0200 From: "Sascha E. Pollok" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [87attendees] Tuesday evening's social-event pictures? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:27:36 -0000 IETF87 people, I hope you all had a good time in Berlin and most of the problems and concerns (air conditioning, clothing, wardrobe malfunctions (badges on top/underneath or on the cheeks (the ones that are part of the upper-front part of the body)), public transportation, healthy food, breakfast(!) etc) have been solved. Does anybody know when pictures of the great social-evening in the tech museum on Tuesday (or any other meeting pictures) will get published? I remember that a photographer on Tuesday said it would be Flickr'ed next day. Thanks very much and I wish you all a safe trip home. Tschüss! Sascha From floris.vandenabeele@intec.ugent.be Fri Aug 2 00:33:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747EC21E82B8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:33:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZcdBKZctyNJk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp3.ugent.be (smtp3.ugent.be [157.193.49.127]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4F221E829E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mcheck2.ugent.be [157.193.49.249]) by smtp3.ugent.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B03C335 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by UGent DICT Received: from smtp3.ugent.be ([157.193.49.127]) by localhost (mcheck2.UGent.be [157.193.43.11]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vx0PEPQTZg7z for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.intec.ugent.be (mail2.intec.ugent.be [157.193.214.245]) by smtp3.ugent.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB30C32D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.intec.ugent.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77AD11F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at intec.ugent.be Received: from mail2.intec.ugent.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.intec.ugent.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jf+xm+Y8jHEH for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [157.193.10.42] (vpnk042.ugent.be [157.193.10.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: fvdabeele) by mail2.intec.ugent.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 554D11E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <51FB6090.7030507@intec.ugent.be> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:32:32 +0200 From: Floris Van den Abeele User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Miltered: at jchkm3 with ID 51FB6091.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://helpdesk.ugent.be/email/)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 51FB6091.001 from mail2.intec.ugent.be/mail2.intec.ugent.be/157.193.214.245/mail2.intec.ugent.be/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 51FB6091.001 on smtp3.ugent.be : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Subject: [87attendees] Holiday Inn Express: Wi-Fi access code X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:33:06 -0000 I checked out this morning and still have 15 hours of Wi-Fi left on my access code. If you are interested in using the remaining hours, please contact me directly (FCFS policy). Cheers, Floris From mjethanandani@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 00:34:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D658F21E825D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:34:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mclbFTRsUPbe for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22c.google.com (mail-pb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0B121E82C0 for <87Attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id xa7so378028pbc.3 for <87Attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:from:content-type:x-mailer:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=PWZyeoSZrMtoP7ketxrRE+yVP4TsxveB78v5kyt8U38=; b=KxSGuiQJ9sEQN6Pfaj7dB8aM+pesZ7nKCYDcE45DWqt3jnD3n8GU/blfAxFLJFeaZY qg9byMI5oxA2dvfK6HLj8RzUTzPinjcyIvSbDklWk1TxE6ZQLcZaNc9GL4n2fCxxu1XV SoDEiNvtIV0mHIewtwTRdR6Dy/MY/lbyFkWKpudsO4XMSrHWgWMO9H7dQlLC1XIAuh8t EtpncDPt8HnnBvz/zfjpIyYKFL2YfTNei/9xCumdNhSdHPp090AqVdaXATPnBmqDMZpg 7KxVlbfgu4hTxDqkireV6085HmIOdeNLzaX62iSaqcFsHU6rmxMjACkEF8Rqsae4MsEp Qjiw== X-Received: by 10.68.220.1 with SMTP id ps1mr6259996pbc.30.1375428810399; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::64:e891:bc84:8428:9bf7? ([2001:df8:0:64:e891:bc84:8428:9bf7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y6sm8609559pbl.23.2013.08.02.00.33.28 for <87Attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:33:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-60437007-8281-441A-A832-A182DB642C78 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) Message-Id: <7066C0C9-6505-4D1F-866E-421DA17CAB87@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:33:29 +0200 To: "87Attendees@ietf.org" <87Attendees@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: [87attendees] Ride to Tegel airport today X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:34:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail-60437007-8281-441A-A832-A182DB642C78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I plan to leave intercontinental hotel at 1 pm and willing to share a taxi. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail-60437007-8281-441A-A832-A182DB642C78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I plan to leave intercontinental hotel at 1 pm and willing to share a taxi.

Mahesh Jethanandani
--Apple-Mail-60437007-8281-441A-A832-A182DB642C78-- From haoweiguo@huawei.com Fri Aug 2 00:39:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECC821E82C7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.049 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.049 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lHZWLVZhyHyP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71BFC21E809A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 00:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AVQ93408; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:37:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:37:23 +0100 Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:37:26 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.43]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:37:19 +0800 From: Haoweiguo To: Floris Van den Abeele , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Holiday Inn Express: Wi-Fi access code Thread-Index: AQHOj1LOTnvZJTw/SEi7YWfcF5/A35mBhySw Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:37:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51FB6090.7030507@intec.ugent.be> In-Reply-To: <51FB6090.7030507@intec.ugent.be> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.217.65] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [87attendees] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEhvbGlkYXkgSW5uIEV4cHJlc3M6IFdp?= =?gb2312?b?LUZpIGFjY2VzcyBjb2Rl?= X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:39:26 -0000 SGkgRmxvcmlzLA0KSSB3YW50IHRvIHVzZSB5b3VyIHJlbWFpbmluZyBXSS1GSSBzZXJ2aWNlLCBj YW4geW91IGZvcndhcmQgdGhhdCBzZXJ2aWNlIHRvIG1lP3RoYW5rcw0Kd2VpZ3VvDQoNCl9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCreivP7IyzogODdhdHRlbmRlZXMt Ym91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbODdhdHRlbmRlZXMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBGbG9y aXMgVmFuIGRlbiBBYmVlbGUgW2Zsb3Jpcy52YW5kZW5hYmVlbGVAaW50ZWMudWdlbnQuYmVdDQq3 osvNyrG85DogMjAxM8TqONTCMsjVIDE1OjMyDQq1vTogODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3 zOI6IFs4N2F0dGVuZGVlc10gSG9saWRheSBJbm4gRXhwcmVzczogV2ktRmkgYWNjZXNzIGNvZGUN Cg0KSSBjaGVja2VkIG91dCB0aGlzIG1vcm5pbmcgYW5kIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUgMTUgaG91cnMgb2Yg V2ktRmkgbGVmdCBvbiBteQ0KYWNjZXNzIGNvZGUuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB1 c2luZyB0aGUgcmVtYWluaW5nIGhvdXJzLCBwbGVhc2UNCmNvbnRhY3QgbWUgZGlyZWN0bHkgKEZD RlMgcG9saWN5KS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KRmxvcmlzDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo4N2F0dGVu ZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0 dGVuZGVlcw== From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 01:09:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8649C11E81E4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:09:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.703 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.703 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2xVvtCT+LIc9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22a.google.com (mail-pd0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFC221E82BC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x10so397204pdj.15 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:08:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=iBygMFJ5UcarWaKgfSRhMju0j6SdwNcF4IJYHdOMw28=; b=pPME7Bq8yadAWMDHYVY49bzC/0XUVskURzEErk46ox7VuntQeXEVnI6VsvR7I3fsoP HRV7/NSw5KdEhBuobZYuZDvMMZI/n8fYUgqX/JLUUUUQ1/2+m2ujzZ5s8M3T4W8jVzzT 3P/ojSteJgU90I+xZTT0DW4/J/ICnq8W0ureF2pb4b4Y2LNpvgTRb8kMjffb3Pt253sM XiR8Hbt+8hs6U8WxLUUsU4rrlwIAuL6k6fO2O1x2t+Sbvz1Osph1FLAyygd/EC6ainSm vvAiV472iXq8b0e+f8H/HFpVSLkGnT5x+s7iG1g3n+a/WEtbenHBwerP2qJpp1oCS2YX ho8A== X-Received: by 10.68.196.167 with SMTP id in7mr6207546pbc.127.1375430896786; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.20.123] (dhcp-147b.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.20.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm5866130paj.4.2013.08.02.01.08.14 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:08:15 -0700 (PDT) References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <04AA89A9-3E30-4296-BCA8-FA8A9121C3A9@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Ralph Droms Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:08:13 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:09:39 -0000 Trying it yesterday and today on an iPhone 5, iOS 6.1.4... Most everything seems to work ok, with good performance. As we discussed yesterday, ietf-nat64 seems to break iMessage. I think it's breaking my secure access to e-mail (both Cisco remote security= access and gmail access). I'll continue to investigate. Thanks for running this test and I encourage others to join; the results, I t= hink, will be important. - Ralph From jon.hudson@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 01:22:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA7511E82AD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:22:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.698, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8lWxTx5+ACr1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-x22e.google.com (mail-gh0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CE911E82A8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gh0-f174.google.com with SMTP id r17so159803ghr.19 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:22:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:from:content-type:x-mailer:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=CGc6atp/KozDhC675otZQtJT0RNPXxkz9YEzptSsj9A=; b=AZE0O6fXgFI5bqH3W9Ecujo64GW7UIv01R0BhUp/bGLdsP3DA4B3bx+OCSfnfyZveG 2HsGAKUpVInZ6MBeCJDVj+OGC39WOslVt+JvseC9iJ3CXqYFQyaqUBQGlx+2s1yG3f1h jEdoO/k0t/ANOgpFqWTWbvnl/SMQi1iVrtlByJepi+Ly+X3MzBfU+z2TAYsvB7sWAX9V tW/cYfaAmnZ1V7Q9RZkbux0Na5Ho1SAh7WCE7LFj+Nx928IBdv0IncBpyocT5FxmYnLk MhmlxY4+4XxKCBGq2yPVU86HkdkT8UOVu8pyNIH0gWSeeWsdY56VwQVHVU4Qm47AasmG zzSA== X-Received: by 10.236.110.97 with SMTP id t61mr3283978yhg.128.1375431737353; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.147.112.247] (mobile-166-147-109-124.mycingular.net. [166.147.109.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a62sm10679216yhk.4.2013.08.02.01.22.15 for <87attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Hudson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) Message-Id: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:22:13 +0200 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:22:34 -0000 Left the Pullman Hotel at 10:01am Was inside Terminal by 10:16am Cab was about 18 euro From DAtkins@mocana.com Fri Aug 2 01:27:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D76F11E82A5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:27:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.961, BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MUZAdMsjuc5l for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mocana.com (smtp.mocana.com [IPv6:2001:470:8254:40:21d:92ff:fe68:1e6e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9D021E82C7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1375431882-01c78875df377f00001-zkFhpE Received: from email.mocana.com ([10.200.16.9]) by smtp.mocana.com with ESMTP id EsjhYuRyOj70DG7q (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:24:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: DAtkins@mocana.com Received: from yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) by yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:24:42 -0700 From: Derek Atkins To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:24:41 -0700 Thread-Topic: Grocery Store near IC? X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Grocery Store near IC? Thread-Index: Ac6PWbx/q+EZUT4iTOKdLCwmkZb6hA== Message-ID: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.200.16.9] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1375431884 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: RC4-MD5 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.200.40.6:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at mocana.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.137540 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Subject: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:27:04 -0000 SVNUUiBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgYWJvdXQgYSBncm9jZXJ5IHN0b3JlIG5lYXIgdGhlIElDIGJ1dCBteSBz ZWFyY2hpbmcgRnUgaXMNCnBvb3IgdGhpcyBtb3JuaW5nLiAgSSByZWNhbGwgdGhlcmUgd2FzIG9u ZSBvbiB0aGUgd2F5IHRvIHRvDQpXZWlzZW5idXJncGxhdHogVWJhaG4gc3RhdGlvbiwgYnV0IEkg Y2FuJ3QgZmluZCB0aGUgZW1haWwgdGhhdCBzYXlzIHdoYXQNCml0IGlzIG9yIHdoZXJlIGV4YWN0 bHkgaXQgaXMgKG9yIGhvdyB0byBnZXQgdGhlcmUpLiAgQ291bGQgc29tZSBraW5kDQpzb3VsIGxl dCBtZSBrbm93Pw0KDQpJJ20gbG9va2luZyB0byBidXkgc29tZSBDb3RlIGQnT3IgY2hvY29sYXRl IGJhcnMgKGJ5IHJlcXVlc3QgZnJvbSBob21lKS4NCkkga25vdyB3aGVyZSBJIGNhbiBnZXQgc29t ZSBuZWFyIFN0YWRtaXR0ZSBidXQgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gY2hlY2sgb3RoZXINCnBsYWNlcyB0aGF0 IG1pZ2h0IGJlIGVhc2llciBvciBjaGVhcGVyLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCi1kZXJlaw0KDQo= From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Fri Aug 2 01:31:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECDA21E82B8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qpm+yPy-Mj7f for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C43B21E82D2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fc36d0000032ea-57-51fb6d8946e4 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2F.F6.13034.98D6BF15; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:27:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:27:53 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: Jon Hudson Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport Thread-Index: AQHOj1l4A9lEmydUrEe/Shfs9ZScNJmBlanm Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:27:52 +0000 Message-ID: <19745ABA-48CC-4F7A-B02E-B53B95313E60@ericsson.com> References: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiG5n7u9Ag69tahYPm3ayWVw4tJDJ gclj56y77B5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mp43XuNqaCZpaLlXBNbA+My5i5GTg4JAROJ h2v/skHYYhIX7q0Hsrk4hASOMkq8v7aFGcJZxijxZ9MORpAqNgEdiW/Xu8C6RQRUJT63XQXq 4OBgFjCUWN/hDhIWBjJ/HN/KBFFiJHF16yM4u2fWXzCbRUBFYu2mb+wgNq+AvUTTgY9gI4UE bCTOdh8Ci3MK2Er0vJ/CAmIzAh33/dQasF5mAXGJW0/mM0EcLSCxZM95qGdEJV4+/scKUWMg 8f7cfGYIW1ti2cLXzBC7BCVOznzCMoFRdBaSUbOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjBylxalluelGBpsY gdFwTIJNdwfjnpeWhxilOViUxHlX6Z0JFBJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cBYdWXn syf+T9v2NgesZZ23J4Y3saHSxckuxFV45Vb77294pr+ui57SNuGZw1wWRzeJWf+X77vzMM+4 4E6WlNeK/9x1Chvr7bwOmHL0hV17mhs7Y8Edw2V8Ypuz7wTmBqltzCl6LbHrTf4Lr/uqU45M +ir0/IbqI3aJG4Ff/C6aHhep2Rw099E7JZbijERDLeai4kQAQP03DVQCAAA= Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:31:46 -0000 X9 bus runs every 10 minutes, on the 10 minutes. Takes 17 minutes. Cost =80= 2.60. Leaves from Zoologisher Garten, an 11 minute walk from Pullman. -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:22 AM, "Jon Hudson" wrote: > Left the Pullman Hotel at 10:01am >=20 > Was inside Terminal by 10:16am >=20 > Cab was about 18 euro=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From philip_matthews@magma.ca Fri Aug 2 01:31:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7391C21E82FD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z+s0ATz5u4E4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-07.primus.ca (smtp1.primus.ca [209.216.129.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E59421E8269 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1795.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.23.149]) by mail-07.primus.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V5AiH-0006hy-1a; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:27:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Philip Matthews In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:27:49 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> To: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Authenticated: philip_matthews - dhcp-1795.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.23.149] Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:31:53 -0000 I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed to = break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was provided = by Viagenie) and it worked well. - Philip= From warren@kumari.net Fri Aug 2 01:33:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB96821E8255 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.478 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.478 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.121, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vI3+W1Vi5QnQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (smtp1.kumari.net [204.194.22.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534D611E82AD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.0.225] (unknown [130.129.0.225]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 750041B4096C; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:31:10 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A7DD797-016D-4057-9C8B-971A05355D9A@kumari.net> References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> To: Derek Atkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:33:34 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu = is > poor this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to > Weisenburgplatz Ubahn station, but I can't find the email that says = what > it is or where exactly it is (or how to get there). Could some kind > soul let me know? 'tis call Kaisers Google maps directions: http://goo.gl/maps/c1ktZ Shorter answer: Walk to Weisenburgplatz. Turn around when you see the = Ubahn. You should now be facing it. If not, look around :-) W >=20 > I'm looking to buy some Cote d'Or chocolate bars (by request from = home). > I know where I can get some near Stadmitte but I'd like to check other > places that might be easier or cheaper. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -derek >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 -- "Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be = the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper = armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'." -- Rincewind discussing Twoflower (Terry Pratchett, The Colour of = Magic) From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Fri Aug 2 01:34:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE63221E82DA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:34:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYX3ABy53RP9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE2321E8303 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:31:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fc36d0000032ea-71-51fb6e771ba0 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6F.07.13034.77E6BF15; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:31:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:31:51 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: Derek Atkins Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? Thread-Index: AQHOj1q8A3RPQYumoUmD4V0/lrBiCQ== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:31:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrG553u9Ag01tZhYPm3ayWdz9/oLV gcljyZKfTB4Lj0QEMEVx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZWxv/s9csI+t4m3fQqYGxqmsXYycHBICJhIz 5n9hh7DFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwlFFi54sbYAkhgWWMEk8+Z4HYbAI6Et+udzGD2CICqhLv3+9l 6WLk4GAWMJRY3+EOEhYGMle/O8wOUWIk8XT9CxYIW0+i6eUPNhCbRUBFYsWtXWA1vAL2EhM3 X2OEWGUgMWXGeVaQkZxAc2Zf0gIJMwKd9v3UGiYQm1lAXOLWk/lMECcLSCzZc54ZwhaVePn4 HytEjY7Egt2f2CBsbYllC18zQ6wSlDg58wnLBEbRWUhGzULSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYxcpQWp5bl phsZbGIExsExCTbdHYx7XloeYpTmYFES512ldyZQSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4ECMTB6cU MMTttiqor2OLefjR9wbT6tgHjXVhDJdWztt5/JxiiMnuu7adKa+EpIU23bp0ITm0erfOAa1f ffopaaJdx84E76sr8L7OlfW2peX4r9hX+stYUviOuKcLP+s/vS067eDO88bl80wbP7f5vpk8 6aStwOfDfRUnbiutnrR2xc4s78V3TSJ+BSqkdCqxFGckGmoxFxUnAgBdtWbhUQIAAA== Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:34:37 -0000 Kaiser's at Wittenbergplatz. -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:29 AM, "Derek Atkins" wrote: > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu is > poor this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to > Weisenburgplatz Ubahn station, but I can't find the email that says what > it is or where exactly it is (or how to get there). Could some kind > soul let me know? >=20 > I'm looking to buy some Cote d'Or chocolate bars (by request from home). > I know where I can get some near Stadmitte but I'd like to check other > places that might be easier or cheaper. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -derek >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From oej@edvina.net Fri Aug 2 01:41:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BEC11E81B0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:41:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.184, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SAVMbN3z+1m2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C31221E82DB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 301AD93C2A1; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:35:58 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:36:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> To: Derek Atkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:41:43 -0000 2 aug 2013 kl. 10:24 skrev Derek Atkins : > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu = is > poor this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to > Weisenburgplatz Ubahn station, but I can't find the email that says = what > it is or where exactly it is (or how to get there). Could some kind > soul let me know? >=20 > I'm looking to buy some Cote d'Or chocolate bars (by request from = home). > I know where I can get some near Stadmitte but I'd like to check other > places that might be easier or cheaper. There's a Netto nearby. Turn right outside of the hotel, walk down to = Kurfurstenstrasse, take a left and walk a few blocks and you will see it on the left side.=20= /O= From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Fri Aug 2 01:42:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEC011E82D0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Myw1Bfii0w3J for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og111.obsmtp.com (exprod7og111.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99F811E82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob111.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUftv05cre+AzST+nR96xRnYRWoVB5qPk@postini.com; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:37:44 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A854D1B8257 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A23CF190065; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.132]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:37:33 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Derek Atkins Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? Thread-Index: Ac6PWbx/q+EZUT4iTOKdLCwmkZb6hAAPHpyA Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:37:32 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523EE83@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:42:58 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu is > poor this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to > Weisenburgplatz Ubahn station, but I can't find the email that says what > it is or where exactly it is (or how to get there). Could some kind > soul let me know? There's a Kaiser's at Wittenbergplatz. https://plus.google.com/102894678696849122247/about?hl=3Den From DAtkins@mocana.com Fri Aug 2 01:43:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E434B11E82F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.284 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.284 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.315, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bNls0NP1AKkD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mocana.com (smtp.mocana.com [IPv6:2001:470:8254:40:21d:92ff:fe68:1e6e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B1121E82E7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:39:59 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1375432762-01c78875df378140001-zkFhpE Received: from email.mocana.com ([10.200.16.9]) by smtp.mocana.com with ESMTP id hG9jzdpUDiW0GHf2 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:39:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: DAtkins@mocana.com Received: from yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) by yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:39:22 -0700 From: Derek Atkins To: Jakob Heitz Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:39:20 -0700 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport Thread-Index: Ac6PW8i6wp2N66GyRlaEtlSqiVWtxg== Message-ID: <1375432760.4774.16.camel@localhost> References: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> <19745ABA-48CC-4F7A-B02E-B53B95313E60@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <19745ABA-48CC-4F7A-B02E-B53B95313E60@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.200.16.9] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1375432762 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: RC4-MD5 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.200.40.6:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at mocana.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.137540 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Jon Hudson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:43:11 -0000 QWxhcywgdGhpcyB3b250IGhlbHAgYXQgNDozMGFtIHRvbW9ycm93Lg0KDQotZGVyZWsNCg0KT24g RnJpLCAyMDEzLTA4LTAyIGF0IDAxOjI3IC0wNzAwLCBKYWtvYiBIZWl0eiB3cm90ZToNCj4gWDkg YnVzIHJ1bnMgZXZlcnkgMTAgbWludXRlcywgb24gdGhlIDEwIG1pbnV0ZXMuIFRha2VzIDE3IG1p bnV0ZXMuIENvc3Qg4oKsMi42MC4gTGVhdmVzIGZyb20gWm9vbG9naXNoZXIgR2FydGVuLCBhbiAx MSBtaW51dGUgd2FsayBmcm9tIFB1bGxtYW4uDQo+IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBKYWtvYiBIZWl0ei4NCj4g DQo+IA0KPiBPbiBBdWcgMiwgMjAxMywgYXQgMTA6MjIgQU0sICJKb24gSHVkc29uIiA8am9uLmh1 ZHNvbkBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gPiBMZWZ0IHRoZSBQdWxsbWFuIEhvdGVsIGF0 IDEwOjAxYW0NCj4gPiANCj4gPiBXYXMgaW5zaWRlIFRlcm1pbmFsIGJ5IDEwOjE2YW0NCj4gPiAN Cj4gPiBDYWIgd2FzIGFib3V0IDE4IGV1cm8gDQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4g PiA4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVz QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRl bmRlZXMNCg0K From prvs=8926f3c024=aallen@blackberry.com Fri Aug 2 01:43:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4892911E8319 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.499, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jR+jrB2At7j for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mhs060cnc.rim.net (mhs060cnc.rim.net [208.65.73.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954EF11E8269 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:40:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 0a41282f-b7f9b6d000002847-16-51fb706303c7 Received: from XCT101ADS.rim.net (xct101ads.rim.net [10.67.111.42]) by mhs060cnc.rim.net (SBG) with SMTP id 1F.2F.10311.3607BF15; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:40:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XMB104ADS.rim.net ([fe80::2494:a63d:e3:723b]) by XCT101ADS.rim.net ([fe80::2c7e:1215:d554:35b5%20]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:40:02 -0500 From: Andrew Allen To: "spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com" , "christian.j.martin@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: AQHOj1vhu/LDv2mzGkeCIPYLi22vzg== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:40:02 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.67.110.251] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD2338DF094EXMB104ADSrimnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXC5ZyvpZtc8DvQYO82ZYuHTTvZLOZ3nma3 uLr0KZPFpIVTmCw6V9xhs1g2ZQ+zA5vHlN8bWT12zrrL7rFkyU8mj1k7n7B4tL1UCGCNamC0 SUosKQvOTM/Tt7NJzMvLL0ksSVVISS1OtlXySU1PzFEIKMosS0yuVHDJLE7OSczMTS1SUshM sVUyUVIoyElMTs1NzSuxVUosKEjNS1Gy41LAADZAZZl5Cql5yfkpmXnptkqewf66FhamlrqG Sna6CZ08GVu7LzAW7AiruP/lKWMDY0dIFyMnh4SAiUTHmqOsELaYxIV769m6GLk4hARWMkr0 tl9ggnA2MUp0f33LBFLFJqAlsf/wdDBbRKCFUWLPkwKQImaQoiWH/4ONEhbQkJi6ZQo7RJGm ROPe21C2nsT+qYfAmlkEVCS+zWwBs3kFPCT+bpgNZnMKBErcvdgEVs8oICux++x1sDizgLjE rSfzmSBOFZBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T+oFxQlZuyZD2RzANXnSzxpqYEYLyhxcuYTlgmMIrOQTJqF UDULSRVEWFNi/S59iGpFiSndD9khbA2J1jlz2ZHFFzCyr2IUzM0oNjAzSM5L1ivKzNXLSy3Z xAhKQI4a+jsY3763OMQowMGoxMNbH/U7UIg1say4MvcQowQHs5II75/ZvwKFeFMSK6tSi/Lj i0pzUosPMQYBg2cisxR3cj4wOeaVxBsbGBDJURLndVX5ECgkkA5MYtmpqQWpRTBDmTg4QZZy SYkUA1NRalFiaUlGPChhxhcDU6ZUA+PmN4uX2Ti5nVV2c+2612zGenTGqcSPL5e8fL7LXvtG GM97xiSJZU/mLTrCnfPk+7WyS+vvpU81drs+baWaguUV92Sp7I0nnPn2ehvKBkU+WrXuye8b 4uWS7ZMmSbyps99g6N/D8/m65f8fic+v6p/wrZXw81BiFuUV9Mp0FNi5fUXKxiVztCuUWIoz Eg21mIuKEwGJH+xvjgMAAA== Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, "ben@nostrum.com" , "paitken@cisco.com" , "N.Leymann@telekom.de" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:43:23 -0000 --_000_BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD2338DF094EXMB104ADSrimnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" content-transfer-encoding: base64 DQpEb24ndCBleHBlY3QgdG9vIG11Y2ggYXQgVGVnZWwuDQoNCkl0cyBhbiBvbGQgYWlycG9y dCBhbmQgc3BhY2UgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgYnVpbHQgd2hlbiBXZXN0IEJlcmxpbiB3YXMgYmFz aWNhbGx5IGFuIGlzbGFuZCBhbmQgbm90IGEgcGxhY2Ugd2hlcmUgcGVvcGxlIG1hZGUgY29u bmVjdGlvbnMgc2luY2UgYWxsIGZsaWdodHMgd2VudCB3ZXN0IChhbmQgYWxzbyBjb3VsZCBv bmx5IGJlIG9wZXJhdGVkIGJ5IFVTLCBCcml0aXNoIG9yIEZyZW5jaCBjYXJyaWVycykuDQoN ClRoZXkgYnVpbHQgYSBicmFuZCBuZXcgYWlycG9ydCB3aGljaCB3YXMgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8g b3BlbiBpbiAyMDEwIGJ1dCBpdHMgYSBjb21wbGV0ZSBmaWFzY28gYW5kIGl0cyB1bmNsZWFy IGlmIHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5hbCBjYW4gZXZlciBiZSBvcGVuZWQgdG8gdGhlIHB1YmxpYyENCg0K aHR0cDovL2VuLm0ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL0Jlcmxpbl9CcmFuZGVuYnVyZ19BaXJw b3J0DQoNCkFuZHJldw0KDQoNCkZyb206IFNwZW5jZXIgRGF3a2lucyBhdCBJRVRGIFttYWls dG86c3BlbmNlcmRhd2tpbnMuaWV0ZkBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXVn dXN0IDAxLCAyMDEzIDA2OjI5IFBNIENlbnRyYWwgU3RhbmRhcmQgVGltZQ0KVG86IENocmlz dGlhbiBNYXJ0aW4gPGNocmlzdGlhbi5qLm1hcnRpbkBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQpDYzogODdhdHRl bmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgPDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPjsgQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIDxi ZW5Abm9zdHJ1bS5jb20+OyBQYXVsIEFpdGtlbiA8cGFpdGtlbkBjaXNjby5jb20+OyBOLkxl eW1hbm5AdGVsZWtvbS5kZSA8Ti5MZXltYW5uQHRlbGVrb20uZGU+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog Wzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzXSBUZWdlbCBBaXJwb3J0DQoNCkknbSBvbiBBaXIgQmVybGluIDc0MjAg dG8gT1JEIG9uIFNhdHVyZGF5IG1vcm5pbmcuIFRoYXQgbG9va3MgbGlrZSBpdCdzIFRlcm1p bmFsIEMsIHdoaWNoIGRvZXMgaGF2ZSBhIGNlbnRyYWwgYXJlYSBpbnNpZGUgc2VjdXJpdHku DQoNCk15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzLCBkb2VzIGFueW9uZSBrbm93IGlmIHRoZXJlJ3MgYSBmb29k IGNvdXJ0IG9yIGFueXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgdGhhdCBpbnNpZGUgc2VjdXJpdHk/DQoNClRoYW5r cywNCg0KU3BlbmNlciwgd2hvIHNwZW50IHNvbWUgdGltZSBHb29nbGluZyBhbmQgY2FuJ3Qg ZmluZCBhIHdlYnNpdGUgdGhhdCBzYXlzIGRlZmluaXRpdmVseSB3aGF0IHRlcm1pbmFsIEkn bSBmbHlpbmcgb3V0IG9mIDotKQ0KDQpPbiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDEsIDIwMTMsIENo cmlzdGlhbiBNYXJ0aW4gd3JvdGU6DQpJIGZsZXcgb3V0IG9mIFRYTCB0byBFV1IgeWVzdGVy ZGF5LiAgQXNpZGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBwYXNzcG9ydCBjb250cm9sIGlz IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgZ2F0ZSBhbmQgYXNpZGUgZnJvbSB0 aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBxdWV1ZSB3YXMgYXMgaW5jb25zcGljdW91cyBhcyBpdCBjb3Vs ZCBiZSAoVFhMIFRlcm0gQSBpcyB1bnVzdWFsIGluIHRoaXMgd2F5IC0gZWFjaCBnYXRlIGhh cyBpdHMgb3duIGVudHJhbmNlIGZyb20gdGhlIGNoZWNrIGluIGFyZWEpLCB0aGUgc2VjdXJp dHkgY2hlY2sgd2FzIHN0YW5kYXJkIGZvciBTaGVuZ2VuLVVTQSBmbGlnaHRzLiAgSSB0b29r IG15IHNob2VzIG9mZiBhbmQgbXkgbGFwdG9wLCB3YWxsZXQsIGFuZCBiZWx0IGFuZCB3YWxr ZWQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgc2Nhbm5lci4gIE5vIHdhbmRpbmcsIHBhdC1kb3duLCAyMCBxdWVz dGlvbnMsIG9yIGJhZy1ydW1tYWdpbmcgd2hhdHNvZXZlci4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzDQpDaHJpcw0K DQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCk9uIEF1ZyAxLCAyMDEzLCBhdCA3OjUwIEFNLCBC ZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgPGJlbkBub3N0cnVtLmNvbTxqYXZhc2NyaXB0Ojs+PiB3cm90ZToNCg0K PiBGb3IgdGhvc2UgcGVvcGxlIGluZGljYXRpbmcgZXh0cmEgdGhvcm91Z2ggc2VjdXJpdHkg YXQgVFhMOiAgV2hhdCB3YXMgeW91ciBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbj8gKGF0IGxlYXN0IGF0IFVTQSB2 cyBTaGVuZ2VuIHZzIG90aGVyIG5vbi1zaGVuZ2VuIGNvdW50cnkgcmVzb2x1dGlvbik/DQo+ DQo+IE9uIEF1ZyAxLCAyMDEzLCBhdCA5OjM3IEFNLCBQYXVsIEFpdGtlbiA8cGFpdGtlbkBj aXNjby5jb208amF2YXNjcmlwdDo7Pj4gd3JvdGU6DQo+DQo+PiBPbiAwMS8wOC8xMyAwODoy MSwgTi5MZXltYW5uQHRlbGVrb20uZGU8amF2YXNjcmlwdDo7PiB3cm90ZToNCj4+PiBUaGUg c2NyZWVuaW5nIGlzIGluIGdlbmVyYWwgbm90IGRpZmZlcmVudCBmcm9tIHRoZSBzY3JlZW5p bmdzIGF0IG90aGVyIGFpcnBvcnRzIGluIEV1cm9wZS4NCj4+DQo+PiBJIHdhcyBub3QgZnJp c2tlZCBvciB3YW5kZWQgYXQgZWl0aGVyIG9mIHRoZSBvdGhlciB0d28gYWlycG9ydHMgSSBw YXNzZWQgdGhyb3VnaC4gVmVyeSBmZXcgcGVvcGxlIHdlcmUuDQo+Pg0KPj4gV2hlcmVhcyBf ZXZlcnlvbmVfIGluIGxpbmUgd2FzIGZyaXNrZWQgKyB3YW5kZWQgYXQgVFhMLg0KPj4NCj4+ IFAuDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KPj4gODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiA4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9y ZzxqYXZhc2NyaXB0Ojs+DQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzDQo+DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA4N2F0dGVu ZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZzxqYXZhc2NyaXB0Ojs+DQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCjg3YXR0 ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPGphdmFzY3JpcHQ6Oz4NCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpUaGlzIHRy YW5zbWlzc2lvbiAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cykgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29u ZmlkZW50aWFsIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBwcml2aWxlZ2VkIG1hdGVyaWFsIChpbmNsdWRpbmcg bWF0ZXJpYWwgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBzb2xpY2l0b3ItY2xpZW50IG9yIG90aGVyIGFw cGxpY2FibGUgcHJpdmlsZWdlcyksIG9yIGNvbnN0aXR1dGUgbm9uLXB1YmxpYyBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbi4gQW55IHVzZSBvZiB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGJ5IGFueW9uZSBvdGhlciB0aGFu IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQgaXMgcHJvaGliaXRlZC4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVj ZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBy ZXBseSB0byB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBmcm9tIHlv dXIgc3lzdGVtLiBVc2UsIGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiwgb3IgcmVwcm9k dWN0aW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIGJ5IHVuaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50cyBp cyBub3QgYXV0aG9yaXplZCBhbmQgbWF5IGJlIHVubGF3ZnVsLg0K --_000_BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD2338DF094EXMB104ADSrimnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" content-transfer-encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVu dD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5Pg0KPGZvbnQg c3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90 OywmcXVvdDtzYW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPjxicj4NCkRvbid0IGV4 cGVjdCB0b28gbXVjaCBhdCBUZWdlbC48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpJdHMgYW4gb2xkIGFpcnBvcnQg YW5kIHNwYWNlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGJ1aWx0IHdoZW4gV2VzdCBCZXJsaW4gd2FzIGJhc2lj YWxseSBhbiBpc2xhbmQgYW5kIG5vdCBhIHBsYWNlIHdoZXJlIHBlb3BsZSBtYWRlIGNvbm5l Y3Rpb25zIHNpbmNlIGFsbCBmbGlnaHRzIHdlbnQgd2VzdCAoYW5kIGFsc28gY291bGQgb25s eSBiZSBvcGVyYXRlZCBieSBVUywgQnJpdGlzaCBvciBGcmVuY2ggY2FycmllcnMpLjxicj4N Cjxicj4NClRoZXkgYnVpbHQgYSBicmFuZCBuZXcgYWlycG9ydCB3aGljaCB3YXMgc3VwcG9z ZWQgdG8gb3BlbiBpbiAyMDEwIGJ1dCBpdHMgYSBjb21wbGV0ZSBmaWFzY28gYW5kIGl0cyB1 bmNsZWFyIGlmIHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5hbCBjYW4gZXZlciBiZSBvcGVuZWQgdG8gdGhlIHB1Ymxp YyE8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpodHRwOi8vZW4ubS53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmVybGluX0Jy YW5kZW5idXJnX0FpcnBvcnQ8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpBbmRyZXc8YnI+DQo8L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0K Jm5ic3A7PGJyPg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm9yZGVyOm5vbmU7Ym9yZGVyLXRvcDpzb2xpZCAj QjVDNERGIDEuMHB0O3BhZGRpbmc6My4wcHQgMGluIDBpbiAwaW4iPg0KPGZvbnQgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGFob21hJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90 O3NhbnMtc2VyaWYmcXVvdDsiPjxiPkZyb208L2I+OiBTcGVuY2VyIERhd2tpbnMgYXQgSUVU RiBbbWFpbHRvOnNwZW5jZXJkYXdraW5zLmlldGZAZ21haWwuY29tXQ0KPGJyPg0KPGI+U2Vu dDwvYj46IFRodXJzZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMDEsIDIwMTMgMDY6MjkgUE0gQ2VudHJhbCBTdGFu ZGFyZCBUaW1lPGJyPg0KPGI+VG88L2I+OiBDaHJpc3RpYW4gTWFydGluICZsdDtjaHJpc3Rp YW4uai5tYXJ0aW5AZ21haWwuY29tJmd0OyA8YnI+DQo8Yj5DYzwvYj46IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVz QGlldGYub3JnICZsdDs4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyZndDs7IEJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCAm bHQ7YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tJmd0OzsgUGF1bCBBaXRrZW4gJmx0O3BhaXRrZW5AY2lzY28u Y29tJmd0OzsgTi5MZXltYW5uQHRlbGVrb20uZGUgJmx0O04uTGV5bWFubkB0ZWxla29tLmRl Jmd0Ow0KPGJyPg0KPGI+U3ViamVjdDwvYj46IFJlOiBbODdhdHRlbmRlZXNdIFRlZ2VsIEFp cnBvcnQgPGJyPg0KPC9mb250PiZuYnNwOzxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KSSdtIG9uIEFpciBCZXJs aW4gNzQyMCB0byBPUkQgb24gU2F0dXJkYXkgbW9ybmluZy4gVGhhdCBsb29rcyBsaWtlIGl0 J3MgVGVybWluYWwgQywgd2hpY2ggZG9lcyBoYXZlIGEgY2VudHJhbCBhcmVhIGluc2lkZSBz ZWN1cml0eS4mbmJzcDsNCjxkaXY+PGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pk15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlz LCBkb2VzIGFueW9uZSBrbm93IGlmIHRoZXJlJ3MgYSBmb29kIGNvdXJ0IG9yIGFueXRoaW5n IGxpa2UgdGhhdCBpbnNpZGUgc2VjdXJpdHk/PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PGRpdj5UaGFua3MsJm5ic3A7PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj5TcGVu Y2VyLCB3aG8gc3BlbnQgc29tZSB0aW1lIEdvb2dsaW5nIGFuZCBjYW4ndCBmaW5kIGEgd2Vi c2l0ZSB0aGF0IHNheXMgZGVmaW5pdGl2ZWx5IHdoYXQgdGVybWluYWwgSSdtIGZseWluZyBv dXQgb2YgOi0pPHNwYW4+PC9zcGFuPiZuYnNwOzxicj4NCjxicj4NCk9uIFRodXJzZGF5LCBB dWd1c3QgMSwgMjAxMywgQ2hyaXN0aWFuIE1hcnRpbiB3cm90ZTo8YnI+DQo8YmxvY2txdW90 ZSBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW46MCAwIDAgLjhleDtib3JkZXIt bGVmdDoxcHggI2NjYyBzb2xpZDtwYWRkaW5nLWxlZnQ6MWV4Ij4NCkkgZmxldyBvdXQgb2Yg VFhMIHRvIEVXUiB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkuICZuYnNwO0FzaWRlIGZyb20gdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCB0 aGUgcGFzc3BvcnQgY29udHJvbCBpcyBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIHNlY3VyaXR5 IGdhdGUgYW5kIGFzaWRlIGZyb20gdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgcXVldWUgd2FzIGFzIGlu Y29uc3BpY3VvdXMgYXMgaXQgY291bGQgYmUgKFRYTCBUZXJtIEEgaXMgdW51c3VhbCBpbiB0 aGlzIHdheSAtIGVhY2ggZ2F0ZSBoYXMgaXRzIG93bg0KIGVudHJhbmNlIGZyb20gdGhlIGNo ZWNrIGluIGFyZWEpLCB0aGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgY2hlY2sgd2FzIHN0YW5kYXJkIGZvciBTaGVu Z2VuLVVTQSBmbGlnaHRzLiAmbmJzcDtJIHRvb2sgbXkgc2hvZXMgb2ZmIGFuZCBteSBsYXB0 b3AsIHdhbGxldCwgYW5kIGJlbHQgYW5kIHdhbGtlZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBzY2FubmVyLiAm bmJzcDtObyB3YW5kaW5nLCBwYXQtZG93biwgMjAgcXVlc3Rpb25zLCBvciBiYWctcnVtbWFn aW5nIHdoYXRzb2V2ZXIuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KQ2hlZXJzPGJyPg0KQ2hyaXM8YnI+DQo8YnI+ DQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KT24gQXVnIDEsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDc6 NTAgQU0sIEJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0iamF2YXNjcmlwdDo7IiBvbmNsaWNr PSJfZShldmVudCwgJ2N2bWwnLCAnYmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tJykiPmJlbkBub3N0cnVtLmNv bTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCjxicj4NCiZndDsgRm9yIHRob3NlIHBlb3BsZSBpbmRp Y2F0aW5nIGV4dHJhIHRob3JvdWdoIHNlY3VyaXR5IGF0IFRYTDogJm5ic3A7V2hhdCB3YXMg eW91ciBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbj8gKGF0IGxlYXN0IGF0IFVTQSB2cyBTaGVuZ2VuIHZzIG90aGVy IG5vbi1zaGVuZ2VuIGNvdW50cnkgcmVzb2x1dGlvbik/PGJyPg0KJmd0Ozxicj4NCiZndDsg T24gQXVnIDEsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDk6MzcgQU0sIFBhdWwgQWl0a2VuICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJq YXZhc2NyaXB0OjsiIG9uY2xpY2s9Il9lKGV2ZW50LCAnY3ZtbCcsICdwYWl0a2VuQGNpc2Nv LmNvbScpIj5wYWl0a2VuQGNpc2NvLmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCiZndDs8YnI+ DQomZ3Q7Jmd0OyBPbiAwMS8wOC8xMyAwODoyMSwgPGEgaHJlZj0iamF2YXNjcmlwdDo7IiBv bmNsaWNrPSJfZShldmVudCwgJ2N2bWwnLCAnTi5MZXltYW5uQHRlbGVrb20uZGUnKSI+DQpO LkxleW1hbm5AdGVsZWtvbS5kZTwvYT4gd3JvdGU6PGJyPg0KJmd0OyZndDsmZ3Q7IFRoZSBz Y3JlZW5pbmcgaXMgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCBub3QgZGlmZmVyZW50IGZyb20gdGhlIHNjcmVlbmlu Z3MgYXQgb3RoZXIgYWlycG9ydHMgaW4gRXVyb3BlLjxicj4NCiZndDsmZ3Q7PGJyPg0KJmd0 OyZndDsgSSB3YXMgbm90IGZyaXNrZWQgb3Igd2FuZGVkIGF0IGVpdGhlciBvZiB0aGUgb3Ro ZXIgdHdvIGFpcnBvcnRzIEkgcGFzc2VkIHRocm91Z2guIFZlcnkgZmV3IHBlb3BsZSB3ZXJl Ljxicj4NCiZndDsmZ3Q7PGJyPg0KJmd0OyZndDsgV2hlcmVhcyBfZXZlcnlvbmVfIGluIGxp bmUgd2FzIGZyaXNrZWQgJiM0Mzsgd2FuZGVkIGF0IFRYTC48YnI+DQomZ3Q7Jmd0Ozxicj4N CiZndDsmZ3Q7IFAuPGJyPg0KJmd0OyZndDsgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188YnI+DQomZ3Q7Jmd0OyA4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3Q8YnI+DQomZ3Q7Jmd0OyA8YSBocmVmPSJqYXZhc2NyaXB0OjsiIG9uY2xpY2s9Il9l KGV2ZW50LCAnY3ZtbCcsICc4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZycpIj44N2F0dGVuZGVlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48YnI+DQomZ3Q7Jmd0OyA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlczwvYT48YnI+DQom Z3Q7PGJyPg0KJmd0OyBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXzxicj4NCiZndDsgODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KJmd0OyA8 YSBocmVmPSJqYXZhc2NyaXB0OjsiIG9uY2xpY2s9Il9lKGV2ZW50LCAnY3ZtbCcsICc4N2F0 dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZycpIj44N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48YnI+DQomZ3Q7 IDxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRl bmRlZXMiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzPC9hPjxicj4NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJy Pg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iamF2YXNjcmlwdDo7IiBvbmNsaWNrPSJfZShldmVudCwgJ2N2bWwnLCAn ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcnKSI+ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJyPg0K PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVu ZGVlcyIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXM8L2E+PGJyPg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQotLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0gPGJyPg0KVGhpcyB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gKGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbnkgYXR0 YWNobWVudHMpIG1heSBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgcHJpdmls ZWdlZCBtYXRlcmlhbCAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIG1hdGVyaWFsIHByb3RlY3RlZCBieSB0aGUgc29s aWNpdG9yLWNsaWVudCBvciBvdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIHByaXZpbGVnZXMpLCBvciBjb25z dGl0dXRlIG5vbi1wdWJsaWMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uIEFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhpcyBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBieSBhbnlvbmUgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50IGlzIHBy b2hpYml0ZWQuIElmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIGluIGVy cm9yLCBwbGVhc2UgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgcmVwbHkgdG8gdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRl IHRoaXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gZnJvbSB5b3VyIHN5c3RlbS4gVXNlLCBkaXNzZW1pbmF0aW9u LCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24sIG9yIHJlcHJvZHVjdGlvbiBvZiB0aGlzIHRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBi eSB1bmludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudHMgaXMgbm90IGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYW5kIG1heSBiZSB1 bmxhd2Z1bC4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_BBF5DDFE515C3946BC18D733B20DAD2338DF094EXMB104ADSrimnet_-- From ietf@rozanak.com Fri Aug 2 01:43:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E0B11E8320 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.455 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.455 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IaqTmencH-L5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DF311E82BD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kopoli (dhcp-1698.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.152]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LtJMx-1U2bHS1Yct-0123CG; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:40:56 -0400 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: "'Derek Atkins'" References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:40:45 +0200 Message-ID: <003e01ce8f5b$fe802550$fb806ff0$@rozanak.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHBZZVzKFou4azMMiI3H3Wij5pzxJmb7CnA Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:RhV6Iva2w0gq4zabT/2LAKh5OPfoTrVxkHuUpBCrvDO Ltv9RkeVE9uLpdnEHhWsQdvNz/NL8EZ5N/LOzvzVTbZ4AyEJlb Om/2PeDHYekQXQzDcEgrKV0PSbNX8ngBM80LDT1xhkWgUnvLV3 8J4MhAYtAfLBylIlmFIALt/5eseAEzzXKzbyyIdqz/yk7fULhF PlkPiK2ZZZQsTip6z/nkPZSYV/PIFSHDu2caag84nYcirI3M7p YBbJSKCpEDnbJYUw8NZbn/IjThPLVQD3JF+/SHfAMarOG1B6rF /YSxEX18x1EJ84qOd7KClZKaCNLSzypf0cHVJalimGQGP4zTUZ gzz5/CXZbMinGb4jeUE4= Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:43:34 -0000 There is one rossmann in 800 meters of IETF venue. You can go by walk.=20 Tauentzienstra=C3=9Fe 8, 10789 Berlin, Germany =E2=80=8E > -----Original Message----- > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Derek Atkins > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 10:25 AM > To: 87attendees@ietf.org > Subject: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? >=20 > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu = is poor > this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to Weisenburgplatz = Ubahn > station, but I can't find the email that says what it is or where = exactly it is (or > how to get there). Could some kind soul let me know? >=20 > I'm looking to buy some Cote d'Or chocolate bars (by request from = home). > I know where I can get some near Stadmitte but I'd like to check other = places > that might be easier or cheaper. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -derek >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 01:43:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F01D11E8331 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmRtx89HwXkl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16C511E812C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r728f1jk007281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:41:01 +0200 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r728f0Ai020237 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:41:00 +0200 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([132.166.86.12]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r728emor011354 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:41:00 +0200 Message-ID: <51FB708F.7080801@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:40:47 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375431881.4774.15.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Grocery Store near IC? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:43:40 -0000 There is a Kaiser's within 15min walk from IC http://goo.gl/maps/ah1Yf 4 Wittenbergplatz I saw several chocolate tablets inside, 40-80% cacao, but wouldnt remember brands. Alex Le 02/08/2013 10:24, Derek Atkins a écrit : > ISTR a message about a grocery store near the IC but my searching Fu > is poor this morning. I recall there was one on the way to to > Weisenburgplatz Ubahn station, but I can't find the email that says > what it is or where exactly it is (or how to get there). Could some > kind soul let me know? > > I'm looking to buy some Cote d'Or chocolate bars (by request from > home). I know where I can get some near Stadmitte but I'd like to > check other places that might be easier or cheaper. > > Thanks, > > -derek > > _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing > list 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Fri Aug 2 01:45:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1E211E82D6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:45:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7RyLB6RMHUL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A877311E82F5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:43:09 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7f986d000007a82-9d-51fb711c9a78 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 50.AB.31362.C117BF15; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:43:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:43:08 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: Derek Atkins Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport Thread-Index: AQHOj1l4A9lEmydUrEe/Shfs9ZScNJmBlanmgABGQgD//74C6Q== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:43:08 +0000 Message-ID: <76697084-622D-4978-B084-E9BD84946B33@ericsson.com> References: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> <19745ABA-48CC-4F7A-B02E-B53B95313E60@ericsson.com>, <1375432760.4774.16.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375432760.4774.16.camel@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrK5s4e9Ag0dTBCweNu1ks7j7/QWr xYVDC5kcmD12zrrL7rFkyU8mj4VHIgKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyZu7azVLwmqPidkcjUwPj HvYuRk4OCQETicVdJxkhbDGJC/fWs3UxcnEICRxllOj7OZ0ZwlnGKLFw5h4WkCo2AR2Jb9e7 mEFsEQFViffv94LFmQXCJFa9fAVmCwsYSvw4vpUJosZI4urWR1C2k8Tq51PANrMIqEhseLoK rJ5XwF7iwqxOVohlMxglfm1bA5bgBBo07XEP2DJGoPO+n1rDBLFMXOLWk/lMEGcLSCzZc54Z whaVePn4HytEjYHE+3PzmSFsbYllC18zQywTlDg58wnLBEbRWUhGzULSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYx cpQWp5blphsZbmIExsgxCTbHHYwLPlkeYpTmYFES592gdyZQSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4 ECMTB6dUA6Ox+TGROSnLa89cTFIQOLVirYtdVWD8oZqowDVqD3uefvK5tkwtd8+xe02Xv6+R /lskYrsq7v0uX1WpbIbZ5k8PlrH9+XQxmq+gyeDv3/WxuSEnLqhM3HQ7Rl1vQ8+55YJ/gr4a 5R3dmr5n/5aTxzzMX7FNqD3QvTSldZqrvPlNeY5pcrce+jxXYinOSDTUYi4qTgQA59tInV8C AAA= Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Jon Hudson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:45:02 -0000 Yes it does http://www.fahrinfo-berlin.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/en?ld=3D0.1&seqnr=3D1&= ident=3Dhg.0224411.1375432914&REQ0HafasScrollDir=3D2&REQ0HafasAttrExcCombin= ed.1=3D -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, "Derek Atkins" wrote: > Alas, this wont help at 4:30am tomorrow. >=20 > -derek >=20 > On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 01:27 -0700, Jakob Heitz wrote: >> X9 bus runs every 10 minutes, on the 10 minutes. Takes 17 minutes. Cost = =802.60. Leaves from Zoologisher Garten, an 11 minute walk from Pullman. >>=20 >> -- >> Jakob Heitz. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:22 AM, "Jon Hudson" wrote: >>=20 >>> Left the Pullman Hotel at 10:01am >>>=20 >>> Was inside Terminal by 10:16am >>>=20 >>> Cab was about 18 euro=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 87attendees mailing list >>> 87attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 From oej@edvina.net Fri Aug 2 01:45:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D948011E82AD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:45:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.164, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rxhLz5bojP3P for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B138411E81B0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 290D493C1AF; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:44:23 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:44:30 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> To: Philip Matthews X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:45:48 -0000 2 aug 2013 kl. 10:27 skrev Philip Matthews : > I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed = to break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. >=20 > However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was = provided by Viagenie) and it worked well. Using it on my laptop with os/x doesn't generate any issues. On my iphone the mail app claims I'm not connected to the internet, = whatsapp is repeatedly trying to connect, but many apps just works. /O= From DAtkins@mocana.com Fri Aug 2 01:47:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A5211E82D9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:47:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.305 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.305 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.294, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 399mdHBCv-vx for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mocana.com (smtp.mocana.com [IPv6:2001:470:8254:40:21d:92ff:fe68:1e6e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3473D11E82DA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:47:07 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1375433225-01c78875df378230001-zkFhpE Received: from email.mocana.com ([10.200.16.9]) by smtp.mocana.com with ESMTP id Ru0xXhRqvLM2izBC (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 01:47:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: DAtkins@mocana.com Received: from yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) by yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:47:05 -0700 From: Derek Atkins To: Jakob Heitz Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:47:04 -0700 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport Thread-Index: Ac6PXN2VU8X/qliyRPaDiavqzFbQ9Q== Message-ID: <1375433224.4774.18.camel@localhost> References: <268F3749-1F4E-4A48-8247-7CE564EF76E9@gmail.com> <19745ABA-48CC-4F7A-B02E-B53B95313E60@ericsson.com> ,<1375432760.4774.16.camel@localhost> <76697084-622D-4978-B084-E9BD84946B33@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <76697084-622D-4978-B084-E9BD84946B33@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.200.16.9] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1375433225 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: RC4-MD5 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.200.40.6:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at mocana.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.137540 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Jon Hudson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Travel time to Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:47:10 -0000 U29ycnksIEkgc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgbWVudGlvbmVkIEknbSBub3QgYXQgdGhlIElDOyBJJ20gYXQg dGhlIE1hcnJpb3R0DQpuZWFyIFBvdHNkYW1lciBQbGF0ei4gIFRoZSBjb25uZWN0aW9ucyBmcm9t IHRoZXJlIHRha2UgMzUtNDUgbWludXRlcyBhbmQNCmludm9sdmUgYXQgbGVhc3Qgb25lIGNvbm5l Y3Rpb24uLiAgSSB0aGluayBJJ2QgcmF0aGVyIHRha2UgYSB0YXhpIHdoZW4NCkknbSB0aGF0IGJs ZWFyeSBleWVkLg0KDQotZGVyZWsNCg0KT24gRnJpLCAyMDEzLTA4LTAyIGF0IDAxOjQzIC0wNzAw LCBKYWtvYiBIZWl0eiB3cm90ZToNCj4gWWVzIGl0IGRvZXMNCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5mYWhyaW5m by1iZXJsaW4uZGUvRmFocmluZm8vYmluL3F1ZXJ5LmJpbi9lbj9sZD0wLjEmc2VxbnI9MSZpZGVu dD1oZy4wMjI0NDExLjEzNzU0MzI5MTQmUkVRMEhhZmFzU2Nyb2xsRGlyPTImUkVRMEhhZmFzQXR0 ckV4Y0NvbWJpbmVkLjE9DQo+IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBKYWtvYiBIZWl0ei4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBPbiBB dWcgMiwgMjAxMywgYXQgMTA6MzkgQU0sICJEZXJlayBBdGtpbnMiIDxEQXRraW5zQG1vY2FuYS5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gPiBBbGFzLCB0aGlzIHdvbnQgaGVscCBhdCA0OjMwYW0gdG9tb3Jy b3cuDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gLWRlcmVrDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gT24gRnJpLCAyMDEzLTA4LTAyIGF0IDAx OjI3IC0wNzAwLCBKYWtvYiBIZWl0eiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPj4gWDkgYnVzIHJ1bnMgZXZlcnkgMTAg bWludXRlcywgb24gdGhlIDEwIG1pbnV0ZXMuIFRha2VzIDE3IG1pbnV0ZXMuIENvc3Qg4oKsMi42 MC4gTGVhdmVzIGZyb20gWm9vbG9naXNoZXIgR2FydGVuLCBhbiAxMSBtaW51dGUgd2FsayBmcm9t IFB1bGxtYW4uDQo+ID4+IA0KPiA+PiAtLQ0KPiA+PiBKYWtvYiBIZWl0ei4NCj4gPj4gDQo+ID4+ IA0KPiA+PiBPbiBBdWcgMiwgMjAxMywgYXQgMTA6MjIgQU0sICJKb24gSHVkc29uIiA8am9uLmh1 ZHNvbkBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+PiANCj4gPj4+IExlZnQgdGhlIFB1bGxtYW4gSG90 ZWwgYXQgMTA6MDFhbQ0KPiA+Pj4gDQo+ID4+PiBXYXMgaW5zaWRlIFRlcm1pbmFsIGJ5IDEwOjE2 YW0NCj4gPj4+IA0KPiA+Pj4gQ2FiIHdhcyBhYm91dCAxOCBldXJvIA0KPiA+Pj4gX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPj4+IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVz IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+Pj4gODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMNCj4gPj4gX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPj4gODdhdHRlbmRlZXMg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4+IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMNCj4gPiANCg0K From oej@edvina.net Fri Aug 2 01:54:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F202621E829F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.453 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.453 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ec6Yy0FPceOl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6172B21E82D2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:955:23c:5c19:d737]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3126093C1AF; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:51:00 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:51:07 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> To: Philip Matthews X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:54:26 -0000 2 aug 2013 kl. 10:44 skrev "Olle E. Johansson" : >=20 > 2 aug 2013 kl. 10:27 skrev Philip Matthews : >=20 >> I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed = to break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. >>=20 >> However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was = provided by Viagenie) and it worked well. >=20 > Using it on my laptop with os/x doesn't generate any issues. >=20 > On my iphone the mail app claims I'm not connected to the internet, = whatsapp is repeatedly trying to connect, but many apps just works. The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile network, = even though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the screen. Tss = tss. /O= From aservin@lacnic.net Fri Aug 2 01:54:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B4721E829F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:54:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DismdaoKIc+s for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D52221E82DF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arturos-macbook-pro.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:1:64:543d:5a34:f1a6:d6f8]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E1B308479 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:51:06 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51FB730F.4020402@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:51:27 +0200 From: Arturo Servin Organization: LACNIC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> In-Reply-To: <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:54:26 -0000 My office services (email, jabber) worked without problem, except VPN (it is only v4). Dropbox dead Skype dead Viber dead Evernote worked without problem iTunes store worked Netflix told me that it was not supported here (not sure where they think I am) In another conference they used 464xlat and the user experience was much better. Regards, as On 8/2/13 10:27 AM, Philip Matthews wrote: > I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed to break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. > > However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was provided by Viagenie) and it worked well. > > - Philip > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From aservin@lacnic.net Fri Aug 2 02:08:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E605B11E8376 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jEsjPw2l+hzE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6026A11E8325 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-156a.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-156a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.106]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACB330847B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:02:29 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51FB75B8.3010201@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:02:48 +0200 From: Arturo Servin Organization: LACNIC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <51FB730F.4020402@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <51FB730F.4020402@lacnic.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:08:33 -0000 Sorry I didn't mentioned. OSX 10.8.4 Regards, as On 8/2/13 10:51 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > My office services (email, jabber) worked without problem, except VPN > (it is only v4). > > Dropbox dead > Skype dead > Viber dead > > Evernote worked without problem > iTunes store worked > Netflix told me that it was not supported here (not sure where they > think I am) > > In another conference they used 464xlat and the user experience was > much better. > > Regards, > as > > > On 8/2/13 10:27 AM, Philip Matthews wrote: >> I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed to break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. >> >> However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was provided by Viagenie) and it worked well. >> >> - Philip >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From db@rrbone.net Fri Aug 2 02:14:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F118C21F84DB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.161, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1AYxhYHftdiM for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rrbone.net (mail.rrbone.net [IPv6:2a01:a700:4821::1:2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEF121E8249 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exch-dtm-02.ops.rrbone.net ([2a01:a700:4609::1fac:1d48]:42982) by mail.rrbone.net with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V5BPz-0008ID-Mf for 87attendees@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:13:04 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:2a01:a700:4aff:2::1:0] (2a01:a700:4aff:2::1:0) by EXCH-DTM-02.ops.rrbone.net (2a01:a700:4609::1fac:1d48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.620.29; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:12:58 +0200 Message-ID: <51FB7814.4060907@rrbone.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:12:52 +0200 From: Dominik Bay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> In-Reply-To: <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 OpenPGP: id=2F0F4A3B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: EXCH-DTM-03.ops.rrbone.net (2a01:a700:4609::1fac:1d49) To EXCH-DTM-02.ops.rrbone.net (2a01:a700:4609::1fac:1d48) Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:14:42 -0000 On 08/02/2013 10:51 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile network, even though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the screen. Tss tss. My iOS7 device works fully with the NAT64 WiFi except Facebook App. Messenger works though. -dominik From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Fri Aug 2 02:25:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E545021F9BF1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNSnt0aTz3o9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5B921E82E6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porto.nomis80.org (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1000]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A9534042B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51FB7AD1.7030003@viagenie.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:24:33 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> In-Reply-To: <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:25:32 -0000 Le 2013-08-02 10:27, Philip Matthews a écrit : > I used this briefly on Monday. However, I discovered that it seemed to break my access to my corp email, so I had to switch back. > > However, I used the NAT64 network at previous IETFs (which was provided by Viagenie) and it worked well. I'm pretty sure they forgot to say the magic words... ;) Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From morrowc@google.com Fri Aug 2 02:26:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6B711E82E8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:26:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v25MfTwH3key for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x233.google.com (mail-ob0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C0B11E82DC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f179.google.com with SMTP id fb19so729646obc.24 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:26:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=1h6dsRkT40YZo6OsIfSKDs3rIdE02qUPd6TlLNmQD/c=; b=JJBw/0bkqFSZ91wV09MIlewyqridaKLWrZ7rMM+eMygnh5fZ7DB3L/wo2gMzjBXl+a CWJij42kx9biFG798piDU9x8UOLoLfubTL70yHwtaRBNmFXxKsdrj8p23ZQMGu2LI8XX 4/FLEae0T6pdqpbLSWY0Buqgew3UcQMP68SF1rWT8SFFtBmuNnSghfDZWk4HDiw4sbss CmXufaOCWoTnRhBTSFpFHYQaiHQKRTH3BIwEbarWR+E23ouI/W51uc2DYz9C+JSg81o/ CkZyJQtqbc9n1RAbQhzuVgSfbUneh5QSUxaLmS7m314SNxckSpkqjUuPJHXIprRHpxVf /m/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1h6dsRkT40YZo6OsIfSKDs3rIdE02qUPd6TlLNmQD/c=; b=H5Km02sBcRdWozgXa2Yw5U/yy0e7LBvTwBliTwuBQ0ll7NZ8qdfHRHM2qz5VQf3Lqe 10OwjQVUm3L39dd9Ebfbw2n+zQrwQdw1KXRJOPDRD8m61JN3gMWQwUsVdmYnAxlutVtA YemSNF9MN0BnyPr1h0cIv3XThImajcrvFO2SKBSRRaeepmolJ0RGLlcWUIJYnq4dqzcY xxoCFEtPKZiJn63Mr4PPPwxSBynGY3MhfJjTfuTT/xSGSrYiP/+1w4RpWbqRFq9ZSl/q ///nsDEAc+lHt2l0RbEGX28kv+afYZdFkHnAXCRzzTHgB0ktvmy3Z3UhYaouH8FQsXzH ALDg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmYNuTkjwG5I3w0DzVRihZbyKnFVgTYHjJoCVWegww276fFN5moFQ6MOsTYYQTYklknDoCwjkSCdo6bGdz5jZWl8ilMzVAHwoiroJ74iTUZF+sYnxC8P9lgm/gdgKaeM4Ju8Mpa9LyiDuAUeihGpEap6/JtAtlxjtflxYNsMDeGhOyXJIhyKg8GelHf2o7PG7YwrIZu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.23.8 with SMTP id i8mr201220igf.42.1375435614361; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.54.35 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:26:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Chris Morrow To: 87attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [87attendees] i-thingy cable left in chareltonbourg 2/3 after 1st session today X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:27:00 -0000 if you are missing your usb -> i-thingy cable from the front table, it's still here... and will be at registration-desk (ietf registration) after the last session today (Friday). -chris From N.Leymann@telekom.de Fri Aug 2 02:34:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F9F11E82FD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:34:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.438, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ySyz4p+jZol2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [80.149.113.247]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3FE11E812C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113598.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.65.117]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 11:33:59 +0200 Received: from HE100018.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.199) by HE113598.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.117) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:59 +0200 Received: from HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.90.96]) by HE100018.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([2002:769:410b::769:410b]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:58 +0200 From: To: , Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:57 +0200 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: Ac6PDvWZ2sw2z/KyRFiM5wdtY65sLQAU+XwA Message-ID: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09C@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09CHE111543eme_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, ben@nostrum.com, paitken@cisco.com Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:34:07 -0000 --_000_9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09CHE111543eme_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Terminal C and D have also a (small) food court after security. Terminal A = is different because they have security at the gate. There are some gates w= ere you are able to buy a coffee and a snack after security. regards Nic ________________________________ Von: Spencer Dawkins at IETF [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 2. August 2013 01:29 An: Christian Martin Cc: Ben Campbell; 87attendees@ietf.org; Paul Aitken; Leymann, Nicolai Betreff: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport I'm on Air Berlin 7420 to ORD on Saturday morning. That looks like it's Ter= minal C, which does have a central area inside security. My question is, does anyone know if there's a food court or anything like t= hat inside security? Thanks, Spencer, who spent some time Googling and can't find a website that says de= finitively what terminal I'm flying out of :-) On Thursday, August 1, 2013, Christian Martin wrote: I flew out of TXL to EWR yesterday. Aside from the fact that the passport = control is immediately before the security gate and aside from the fact tha= t the queue was as inconspicuous as it could be (TXL Term A is unusual in t= his way - each gate has its own entrance from the check in area), the secur= ity check was standard for Shengen-USA flights. I took my shoes off and my= laptop, wallet, and belt and walked through the scanner. No wanding, pat-= down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging whatsoever. Cheers Chris Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Ben Campbell > wr= ote: > For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was you= r destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country res= olution)? > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken >= wrote: > >> On 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: >>> The screening is in general not different from the screenings at other = airports in Europe. >> >> I was not frisked or wanded at either of the other two airports I passed= through. Very few people were. >> >> Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wanded at TXL. >> >> P. >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --_000_9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09CHE111543eme_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Terminal C and D have also a (small) food court after= =20 security. Terminal A is different because they have security at the gate. T= here=20 are some gates were you are able to buy a coffee and a snack after=20 security.
 
  regards
 
    Nic

Von: Spencer Dawkins at IETF=20 [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Aug= ust=20 2013 01:29
An: Christian Martin
Cc: Ben Campbell;=20 87attendees@ietf.org; Paul Aitken; Leymann, Nicolai
Betreff: Re:= =20 [87attendees] Tegel Airport

I'm on Air Berlin 7420 to ORD on Saturday morning. That looks li= ke=20 it's Terminal C, which does have a central area inside security. 

My question is, does anyone know if there's a food court or anything l= ike=20 that inside security?

Thanks, 

Spencer, who spent some time Googling and can't find a website that sa= ys=20 definitively what terminal I'm flying out of :-) 

= On=20 Thursday, August 1, 2013, Christian Martin wrote:
I flew out of TXL to EWR yesterday.  Aside from th= e=20 fact that the passport control is immediately before the security gate an= d=20 aside from the fact that the queue was as inconspicuous as it could be (T= XL=20 Term A is unusual in this way - each gate has its own entrance from the c= heck=20 in area), the security check was standard for Shengen-USA flights.  = I=20 took my shoes off and my laptop, wallet, and belt and walked through the= =20 scanner.  No wanding, pat-down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging=20 whatsoever.

Cheers
Chris

Sent from my iPhone

On A= ug 1,=20 2013, at 7:50 AM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:

> For thos= e=20 people indicating extra thorough security at TXL:  What was your=20 destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country=20 resolution)?
>
> On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Paul Aitken <= paitken@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>>= ; On=20 01/08/13 08:21, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote:
>>> The= =20 screening is in general not different from the screenings at other airpor= ts in=20 Europe.
>>
>> I was not frisked or wanded at either of = the=20 other two airports I passed through. Very few people=20 were.
>>
>> Whereas _everyone_ in line was frisked + wa= nded=20 at TXL.
>>
>> P.
>>=20 _______________________________________________
>> 87attendees=20 mailing list
>> 87attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
= >
>=20 _______________________________________________
> 87attendees maili= ng=20 list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
= _______________________________________________
87attendees=20 mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=
--_000_9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09CHE111543eme_-- From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Fri Aug 2 02:41:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C72D11E812C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZN9OdiG6fNRx for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og112.obsmtp.com (exprod7og112.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.177]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66B511E82CA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob112.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUft+wGSzIuaBGeT9BPrwZ5Qqg5/StaAG@postini.com; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:41:21 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1ED1B8261 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEFB9190065; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.132]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:41:18 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: "Olle E. Johansson" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? Thread-Index: AQHOjr4a5brCocLMHEiuzClwaRMlxZmCDDSAgAAEqgCAAAHZgIAADgoA Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F2A5@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> In-Reply-To: <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Philip Matthews Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:41:28 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile network, e= ven though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the screen. Tss tss. Interesting. This is working for me on Mountain Lion. Is it when you br= owse the store, or when you download something from it? Both work for me. From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 02:48:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0B711E8210 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j8ffnwh6XbhF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC5811E8311 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:48:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375436882; x=1406972882; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=of1D3jBNV6TSPGUmaYwyZnp4DPLnZ9AZh31a0w0Nj/4=; b=ljY6jCrFKzcDDjP5wtU4dRL3xeGmxpUA+IuPS0jCn5BXRZAK73tTpEu7 +ouP2aNytGBrvymZDCwLRWZJ7cSOvO6dleFoHz8ovaFUgC+RVKkaMHElU DzZTOjIwCGRtudTnmzobWuEx6Hxg1qDqt7HcbRcI54vCcyNf1+KIEZVPy g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66351920" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 02:48:01 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="489353086" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 02:48:00 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r729lxQA018287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:47:59 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85705260" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 02:47:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:47:26 -0700 To: Christian Martin , Ben Campbell From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Aitken , "N.Leymann@telekom.de" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:48:10 -0000 At 10:29 AM -0400 8/1/13, Christian Martin wrote: > the security check was standard for Shengen-USA flights. I took my > shoes off and my laptop, wallet, and belt and walked through the > scanner. No wanding, pat-down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging > whatsoever. In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S., unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal detector. So, did you remove your shoes because you were directed to, or out of habit? -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. From chelliot@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 02:56:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC40421E8084 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.834 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.834 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.143, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kMikkrxjrrUU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22e.google.com (mail-lb0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A7421E80A8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id w20so304787lbh.19 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:56:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=oL5lSK+qzs4iJwcG64qfaLBFRykSpjFN7zCNGent+aw=; b=pRqxFtES9DZt5Ih/y/KDN6Bw05/fU3iMQ8WSonjr3F47R957yN2vrGgKUNOkYbtKY/ jXqH8eoDTamUgoIJiGbODG/o7yjcRGC8bXCZRgbN31VrXMUCnzolqTymagawbkqYLRzT 5k/NiPkGi4ONf5hpq7hgLHxEDQsMknSzD5pGkwMihwcO/UUBfXEnHsvmRQ+xROog0X4A mD4m6CwJFVxwGYiFkwEjeVepRNUPJFwxxOD1s+jrqeY+X/qBVc6Qg6ZZ3fV5M9pDaHyB TP2WVxE8NFGBtJWYYkVl1Nm2D4J0tfp6Spn1LRJBBg04SCOTVaAzdOtG3YviWg0/RlFA vyow== X-Received: by 10.112.74.47 with SMTP id q15mr3138143lbv.75.1375437361590; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:56:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:55:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F2A5@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F2A5@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> From: Chris Elliott Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:55:40 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XJwjODd-seQsKkAeykUPrBUTglA Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae94735c15935a104e2f3f750 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, "Olle E. Johansson" , Philip Matthews Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:56:04 -0000 --14dae94735c15935a104e2f3f750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > > The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile network, > even though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the screen. Tss tss. > > Interesting. This is working for me on Mountain Lion. Is it when you > browse the store, or when you download something from it? Both work for > me. > I'm on 10.8.4 and browsing the store worked, as did finding updates. I only had app updates, but when I tried to download, the download paused itself right a way, and the retry button was greyed out. Changing networks and killing (force quit) and restarting the App Store application didn't help. A reboot did. Chris. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --14dae94735c15935a104e2f3f750 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.= com> wrote:
On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:51 A= M, Olle E. Johansson <oej@edvina.net> wrote:
> The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile net= work, even though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the screen.= Tss tss.

Interesting. =A0 This is working for me on Mountain Lion. =A0 Is it w= hen you browse the store, or when you download something from it? =A0 Both = work for me.


Chris.
=A0
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees



--
= Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com
--14dae94735c15935a104e2f3f750-- From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 2 02:56:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9735C21E809C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8t75ahjwGi1j for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC96221E82C0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 02:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 79140 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 09:56:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=13523.51fb8245.k1308; bh=ARaAg9UpkZKTg0aU2kTSUEpGKJTw18MG1Y4U+4ZAEAE=; b=RkDV/37cmUSMe9U/yOvSZnZ0gzPQ8o+xda4Fo4+K1/mPTHtbjYVZZD5sY7EVjKmjTYecwUE6gEA9TWZngR8eGTslUz+QG3RI1JFbESWJ0KqjFqRqGpHPPZRMhpLOIziSv/G1ohg3yD76+ypEeP1dAjRAAXjhWySqWog3Bkj78N7zgKITasvVDaclvF85k4sLjNrn79c9xUInaarIuasYAvDN589cghohsHiPOe696wk2ZMLnEYi4ZRcsznwk0+Jz DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=13523.51fb8245.k1308; bh=ARaAg9UpkZKTg0aU2kTSUEpGKJTw18MG1Y4U+4ZAEAE=; b=KL+o85sBsItLru7gpGCdjRfIXqGVUZWfxH831dbp+gR7O46cUggmC1sRKUFoGaeLWxTgTyzrZ903VlzppUPCKaMv/eYzaa+5L+h46R5Q9IDQVp7taaxjSR4k3cnfW6kv5b+fOw8IWEVB99hRrfs4zHphvFC/Fi61nl2KRFCLbOg2NGGznX6hSVVB6NL3Pt1tzRKLwr3R59FQy1TmWLAWDa49jHztyKNRrablzJKXJj5Cbn5D+oH2nfUzESeasLbb Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 2 Aug 2013 09:55:59 -0000 Date: 2 Aug 2013 11:56:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Randall Gellens" In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:56:53 -0000 > In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S., unless > one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal detector. So, did > you remove your shoes because you were directed to, or out of habit? There are special rules for flights to the US, and one of those rules is that the shoes come off. If you have connections before your flight to the US, there's invariably a re-inspection for the US flight including the barefoot dance. R's, John From erey@ernw.de Fri Aug 2 03:04:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EDC721E82F4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DKjts9Hf5rbw for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.ernw.net (mx1.ernw.net [62.159.96.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F2F11E8117 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh1.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.1.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mh1.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mx1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EFD515EC29; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:04:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ws25.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.100.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ws25.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mh1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A99A5BD; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:34:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ws25.ernw.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 18C69C2DDA; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:37:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:37:43 +0200 From: Enno Rey To: Randall Gellens Message-ID: <20130802093743.GB24645@ernw.de> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:04:27 -0000 On Fri, Aug 02, 2013 at 02:47:26AM -0700, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 10:29 AM -0400 8/1/13, Christian Martin wrote: > > > the security check was standard for Shengen-USA flights. I took my > > shoes off and my laptop, wallet, and belt and walked through the > > scanner. No wanding, pat-down, 20 questions, or bag-rummaging > > whatsoever. > > In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S., isn't part of the overall programm not to establish ("predictable") standards? In general your observation is correct, but it might depend on (the weather|the moon's position|the person you're facing's mood|you-get-the-idea). Had to take off my (non metal-containing) shoes yesterday, at FRA airport, for a domestic flight. Everybody have a safe trip & a great weekend Enno > unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal > detector. So, did you remove your shoes because you were directed > to, or out of habit? > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees -- Enno Rey ERNW GmbH - Carl-Bosch-Str. 4 - 69115 Heidelberg - www.ernw.de Tel. +49 6221 480390 - Fax 6221 419008 - Cell +49 174 3082474 Handelsregister Mannheim: HRB 337135 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Enno Rey Troopers 2013 Videos online: http://www.youtube.com/user/TROOPERScon?feature=watch ======================================================= Blog: www.insinuator.net || Conference: www.troopers.de ======================================================= From chelliot@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 03:06:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A06B11E8311 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Ya3LNXxGzNf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x244.google.com (mail-lb0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::244]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0B721E82EB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f196.google.com with SMTP id a16so177409lbj.3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:06:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:from:date:x-google-sender-auth :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=bwuAVK0eUICfrxjCHYZUugqkJuaPWu2+VepiCq0F1vE=; b=Gnyk57psyP9bm6Pd3kvqFqhziZNu8DKD9+MdiWdowA0Kd6btv1gz7zwg2bv9+eBduu /vptY5kvfQD5kH/kh3estgMwMog0LTLtzdJb0eObzkAaGdDyUXe+nhb30WpgGT/+R5QH a5MGP2/Ydzs4Kdw8ysmZeyR5idqvwHFVHFggMRno1zKd7HeeY4ecmVzU+jr/Mu59eRTT WKXhlSP6cMgPJ/Ac2TT5lnA0FlZitCKk+eV/ZAJxSamHu5iGsk0CiguYwta+2ffwcbIG gQ7h53KX0MNHbXRcNTxMyMBeMQZJuw04exuVIwVS9zNphE0Q04TsrwK7CAIYi3zWPK+f Y/tQ== X-Received: by 10.152.181.65 with SMTP id du1mr2614809lac.76.1375437983473; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:06:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:06:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Elliott Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:06:03 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: COVIV2h_6pGYyw-9b-wesuUjRUk Message-ID: To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11340e886a657104e2f41c3d Subject: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:06:45 -0000 --001a11340e886a657104e2f41c3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All, We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel. The IETF network, both wireless and wired, including the Terminal Room, will be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to collect APs, you may see our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down without further notice, so Caveat Popularis. ;-) Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you all in Vancouver. Chris and the entire NOC team. -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com CCIE # 2013 --001a11340e886a657104e2f41c3d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,

We will be tearing down the IETF n= etwork this afternoon.

We will be transitioning th= e hotel network back to the Intercontinental internet connection at 2pm. Th= is will affect wired and wireless in the rooms as well as the InterContinen= tal SSID in all areas of the hotel.

The IETF network, both wireless and wired, including th= e Terminal Room, will be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to co= llect APs, you may see our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down wit= hout further notice, so Caveat Popularis. ;-)

Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you al= l in Vancouver.

 --001a11340e886a657104e2f41c3d-- From tony@att.com Fri Aug 2 03:12:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F4121E80A8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:12:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKsKvbzJXmk2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com [209.65.160.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE0E11E8311 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 0068bf15.0.7465185.00-454.20625174.nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:12:17 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 51fb860140083671-4244ccbce855b8145acae5cda2dc8eda78c359d5 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72ACGqh020807 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:12:16 -0400 Received: from alpi133.aldc.att.com (alpi133.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.3]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72AC9pu020768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:12:09 -0400 Received: from alpi153.aldc.att.com (alpi153.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by alpi133.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:11:59 GMT Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72ABxG7017303 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:11:59 -0400 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72ABrPP017213 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:11:53 -0400 Received: from [135.70.11.218] (vpn-135-70-11-218.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.11.218]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20130802101152gw100bhhthe> (Authid: tony); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:11:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.11.218] Message-ID: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:11:50 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Sa5AgItu c=1 sm=0 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8UMqPvVAA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=SQo6OefQvGoA:10 a=3ukmKKXcZEAA:10 a=AxW0lZ7BZaIA:10 a=ofM] X-AnalysisOut: [gfj31e3cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=zQP7CpK] X-AnalysisOut: [OAAAA:8 a=EkW8xM0F0gUA:10 a=i_l0xvyt5DAT5d3q-z0A:9 a=wPNLv] X-AnalysisOut: [fGTeEIA:10 a=dMtOEhB37xAA:10 a=e4nEieZ3MCEA:10 a=-Kl95tKwv] X-AnalysisOut: [U0A:10] Subject: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:12:28 -0000 What's the recommended amount of time to get to Tegel before a flight? For example, if a flight is leaving at 10:00, should you get there at 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, 9:00? Tony Hansen From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 03:13:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104BC21E80CA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z5nWsVaDXkLc for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com (mail-pd0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40D211E80FD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f182.google.com with SMTP id r10so505282pdi.27 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:13:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=vPGb86EC09+e3qc9hnnA2ViKLOF2XMrLf5287SBlU94=; b=TCJ8WmXuA1StLSGg/YGl7sVqjLo5JQJCa+HlSwOpe5rCysu4FiH3Fio0G4EmBu73bQ 9RefaonHW8qfD7tz+aO0vO+LR0Lldsp3WhY0ioYsKTxRNuhLx+YSHi4UTv+0fumXrGAZ QiATOVnqTEtKFkOwx6CQtrKp0f3d6tJNmejCtgTV2TV+oAYd5vuH5P3Mmq8P2lJJ72wq StSlz8fzVq/5TMD0xsccp54Au2+UnO6b/MTxfCg923iQj3U5gY5eWGP+BcOJDZn7t9FP VyO9M/2eCd0O/SKVGAbsMaWDCNup1bWSW57mxMCUZs8m6CgKnzSS9JZ//O3nH7yd73MT Mjdg== X-Received: by 10.67.21.229 with SMTP id hn5mr9543977pad.135.1375438400407; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8:0:64:b184:8fbb:8fe5:8507? ([2001:df8:0:64:b184:8fbb:8fe5:8507]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qh10sm9387004pbb.33.2013.08.02.03.13.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FB863A.8050609@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:13:15 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: N.Leymann@telekom.de References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09C@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> In-Reply-To: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B09C@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030208000407050507070408" Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, ben@nostrum.com, christian.j.martin@gmail.com, paitken@cisco.com Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:13:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030208000407050507070408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 08/02/2013 04:33 AM, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote: > Hi, > Terminal C and D have also a (small) food court after security. > Terminal A is different because they have security at the gate. There > are some gates were you are able to buy a coffee and a snack after > security. > regards > Nic Thank you for the clue! Spencer --------------030208000407050507070408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 08/02/2013 04:33 AM, N.Leymann@telekom.de wrote:
Hi,
 
Terminal C and D have also a (small) food court after security. Terminal A is different because they have security at the gate. There are some gates were you are able to buy a coffee and a snack after security.
 
  regards
 
    Nic

Thank you for the clue!

Spencer
--------------030208000407050507070408-- From david.black@emc.com Fri Aug 2 03:13:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339D121E80CA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aFZ0IyQOS7ML for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F074421E830F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r72ADc1b021756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:39 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd04.lss.emc.com [10.254.222.226]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:21 -0400 Received: from mxhub12.corp.emc.com (mxhub12.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.107]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r72ACCZn031574; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:21 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.184]) by mxhub12.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.107]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:17 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "chelliot@pobox.com" , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:15 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] IETF network teardown Thread-Index: Ac6PaAyONgPH0h76Rvmz1acWJodCCgAALg1w Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9CMX15Acorpemccom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:13:47 -0000 --_000_8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9CMX15Acorpemccom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And a big thank you to everyone involved in providing this network! Thanks, --David From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Chris Elliott Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:06 AM To: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: [87attendees] IETF network teardown All, We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental int= ernet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the rooms a= s well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel. The IETF network, both wireless and wired, including the Terminal Room, wil= l be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to collect APs, you may s= ee our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down without further notice,= so Caveat Popularis. ;-) Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you all in Vancouver. Chris and the entire NOC team. -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com CCIE # 2013 --_000_8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9CMX15Acorpemccom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

And a big thank you = to everyone involved in providing this network!

 

Thanks,
--D= avid

 

From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf= .org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Elliot= t
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:06 AM
To: 87attendees= @ietf.org
Subject: [87attendees] IETF network teardown=

 

All,

 

We will be tearing down the IETF net= work this afternoon.

&nb= sp;

We will be transitioning the h= otel network back to the Intercontinental internet connection at 2pm. This = will affect wired and wireless in the rooms as well as the InterContinental= SSID in all areas of the hotel.

 

The IETF network, = both wireless and wired, including the Terminal Room, will be going down at= 3pm. As it will take some time to collect APs, you may see our SSIDs after= this time, but they will go down without further notice, so Caveat Popular= is. ;-)

 

=

Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope t= o see you all in Vancouver.

<= o:p> 

Chris and the entire NO= C team.


=

 

--
Chris Elliott
chel= liot@pobox.com

CCIE # 201= 3

= --_000_8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9CMX15Acorpemccom_-- From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 03:14:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BFF21E833D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:14:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.46 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.46 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.139, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bOgPEo8ydqtF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x230.google.com (mail-ve0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA8521E827D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f176.google.com with SMTP id b10so433326vea.21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:14:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=9fNgKA/o+W0IEH/j8LcZ0FacJCsY43wCnvQb8fzIHgc=; b=Kl9UbMvzgXwPT/pUZjMOZcxPXQfcNJJLUPey+pEGhDCks8eK7wJC7lM32edT25MNG5 unAufX1ypcNz96G+rxSVAKqbcjc5TD1tKzmKhJdMqOb8kJ/ed5eraxl6BLIxALd7Osrh geQSIqftFaXsI5yKXOXz5lknpc8NGbN3GYSxjkUBz9QN2C1nRoPR9nOMKMb2ZtO4xKDB 1Bcf5+fixoHmSXyrhZdiI+3vZHNYKbV7bZlldrrQey+OoRr4en/DRRM0uA2Vsko52/0B 9M87KRC6rbxDbo5cIZXpFE18jVjz+DAWvzdMP6Au3FNzS0F7ECnSTqhTF5Tn3gSRX/wo I97A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.182.69 with SMTP id cb5mr155618vcb.41.1375438441178; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:14:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: 87attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132e2c2b26adc04e2f43733 Subject: [87attendees] Berlin travelguide X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:14:05 -0000 --001a1132e2c2b26adc04e2f43733 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have Rick Steve's Berlin Snapshot book (it also has Dresden and Goerlitz). I am leaving on Sunday a.m. and don't plan to take the book back with me. If someone wants the book (Saturday evening), let me know. Mary. --001a1132e2c2b26adc04e2f43733 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have Rick Steve's Berlin Snapshot book (it also has = Dresden and Goerlitz). =A0I am leaving on Sunday a.m. and don't plan to= take the book back with me. =A0If someone wants the book (Saturday evening= ), let me know.

Mary.
--001a1132e2c2b26adc04e2f43733-- From erey@ernw.de Fri Aug 2 03:16:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE7911E8257 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4MTqjiZydlmq for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.ernw.net (mx1.ernw.net [62.159.96.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF19221E8343 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh1.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.1.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mh1.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mx1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9F1915EC29; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:16:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ws25.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.100.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ws25.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mh1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C320D2; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ws25.ernw.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B7366C2DDA; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:49:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:49:43 +0200 From: Enno Rey To: Tony Hansen Message-ID: <20130802094943.GI24645@ernw.de> References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:16:18 -0000 On Fri, Aug 02, 2013 at 06:11:50AM -0400, Tony Hansen wrote: > What's the recommended amount of time to get to Tegel before a flight? > > For example, if a flight is leaving at 10:00, should you get there at > 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, 9:00? Intercontinental flight leaving at 10:00: be there at 8:30. Intra-European/domestic flight leaving at 10: be there 9:00. TXL is small (=> getting somewhere doesn't take much time) and boring (not much you can do while waiting). best Enno > > Tony Hansen > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees -- Enno Rey ERNW GmbH - Carl-Bosch-Str. 4 - 69115 Heidelberg - www.ernw.de Tel. +49 6221 480390 - Fax 6221 419008 - Cell +49 174 3082474 Handelsregister Mannheim: HRB 337135 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Enno Rey Troopers 2013 Videos online: http://www.youtube.com/user/TROOPERScon?feature=watch ======================================================= Blog: www.insinuator.net || Conference: www.troopers.de ======================================================= From N.Leymann@telekom.de Fri Aug 2 03:19:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F8521E8085 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.138 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.138 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kqQZBAFTA0Lp for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail93.telekom.de (tcmail93.telekom.de [80.149.113.205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAF221E8137 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he111528.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.90.87]) by tcmail91.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 12:19:18 +0200 Received: from HE100024.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.200) by HE111528.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM (10.125.90.87) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:19:18 +0200 Received: from HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.90.96]) by HE100024.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:19:17 +0200 From: To: , <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:19:15 +0200 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? Thread-Index: Ac6PaNUqneKRjqbNSAytymqhD6UCpgAAL4XQ Message-ID: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B10D@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> In-Reply-To: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:19:25 -0000 Hi, I recommend to be there at 8:30 (90 minutes before your flight leaves). Tegel is small and that should give you enough time. Regards Nic -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von Tony Hansen Gesendet: Freitag, 2. August 2013 12:12 An: <87attendees@ietf.org> Betreff: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? What's the recommended amount of time to get to Tegel before a flight? For example, if a flight is leaving at 10:00, should you get there at 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, 9:00? Tony Hansen _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 03:21:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EA121E82F9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:21:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.714, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u6x-Va5Pmi3v for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x232.google.com (mail-ve0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D3921E809C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f178.google.com with SMTP id ox1so440575veb.37 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:21:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=y91rkrGvWQl0Vdw2P4mTrJT2uFZtRmUE9VKJnRuQiLI=; b=KpXq7usAZqhOvCZ73WRCs4aSYinMXcRc3xW6nwg126YjzHrHsUib6BfOSSb9pchVBz vL/UDcRfxs+2IgfDRB6q3lwTfgckKMfm2zBQEUvmTK9YrAgJNcBew7QzE0Z1bUpmCuYv HwTQeL1aoPl/zWJ0+deWgoszV71zVJUou2fQ2qXR3z+H9QbTBfo3fzslso+JadPX2HDI GfNk5DqOKnaFfrwnRmQXtAewRFjEtjdMpTTHtuZW9URl6xg/POmuSFlR4rdhFDnVZ1Wh aizE5EUX2E8jKck1mLzFg7oc8Tz37DSsuC0UCxkFZIv2rrs55446h+enXw7QzFSr9BNA QgFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.46.196 with SMTP id x4mr1800936vem.73.1375438879953; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:21:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:21:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0102f81cd9999e04e2f45129 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:21:25 -0000 --089e0102f81cd9999e04e2f45129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in Potsdam 1 right now and uncomfortably warm. I'll be in another meeting room this afternoon that was sweltering on Sunday. I had to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I might pass out. I was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and a very light, shorter skirt and sandles. We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layers. If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. The problem with it being hot inside and outside is that if you get overheated, there isn't a place to cool down. Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air conditioned house. I don't have that option here. As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier than too warm. As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly, I always have a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when it's cold. Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack that will cool someone down. Although, I do have paper, which I used on Sunday as well to try to cool down. Mary On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 6:25 AM -0400 7/25/13, Samuel Weiler wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Randall Gellens wrote: >> >> Can anyone comment on what the meeting room temperatures are likely to >>> be on average? Being summer, it would be nice to be able to pack light and >>> rely on shorts and T-shirts. >>> >> >> Over the last 48 hours or so: the AC in one Intercontinental meeting >> room (sorry, limited datapoints) has ranged from adequate to inadequate but >> has not been excessive. I think you'll be comfortable in shorts, >> especially on Sunday, when the outside temperature is forecast to be 99 (F). >> >> Past performance and all that. >> > > So far, I've been very comfortable in shorts and sandals, both in sessions > and outside walking around. IMHO, this is much nicer than places where the > hotter it is outside, the colder they make the meeting rooms (or places > where it is cold indoors and out). > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Never knock the way the other cat swings. > --Neal Cassady > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --089e0102f81cd9999e04e2f45129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. =A0I= 'm in Potsdam 1 right now and uncomfortably warm. =A0I'll be in ano= ther meeting room this afternoon that was sweltering on Sunday. =A0I had to= leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap arou= nd my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I might pass out. =A0 I w= as wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and a very light, shorter skirt and sandl= es. =A0

We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by t= he mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layers. =A0If you are too = hot, you can only take off so many layers. =A0 =A0The problem with it being= hot inside and outside is that if you get overheated, there isn't a pl= ace to cool down. =A0Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance= for being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air con= ditioned house. =A0I don't have that option here. =A0

As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be c= hillier than too warm. =A0As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly= , I always have a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when it's = cold. =A0Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack that will = cool someone down. =A0Although, I do have paper, which I used on Sunday as = well to try to cool down.=A0

Mary=A0


=


On Thu, Aug 1= , 2013 at 2:43 PM, Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@qualcomm.com>= wrote:
At 6:25 AM -0400 7/25/13, Samuel Weiler wrot= e:

=A0On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Randall Gellens wrote:

=A0Can anyone comment on what the meeting room temperatures are likely to b= e on average? =A0Being summer, it would be nice to be able to pack light an= d rely on shorts and T-shirts.

=A0Over the last 48 hours or so: the AC in one Intercontinental meeting roo= m (sorry, limited datapoints) has ranged from adequate to inadequate but ha= s not been excessive. =A0I think you'll be comfortable in shorts, espec= ially on Sunday, when the outside temperature is forecast to be 99 (F).

=A0Past performance and all that.

So far, I've been very comfortable in shorts and sandals, both in sessi= ons and outside walking around. =A0IMHO, this is much nicer than places whe= re the hotter it is outside, the colder they make the meeting rooms (or pla= ces where it is cold indoors and out).

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Never knock the way the other cat swings.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--Neal Cassady
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--089e0102f81cd9999e04e2f45129-- From oej@edvina.net Fri Aug 2 03:25:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDD921E8354 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:25:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.134, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JLwdj8CVzMDV for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C5421E8386 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::16:4ae:c602:dac7:771c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:4ae:c602:dac7:771c]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1E7BF93C1AF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:24:50 +0000 (UTC) From: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:24:49 +0200 To: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:25:34 -0000 Hi! In rtcweb we have remote participants that prefer anonymity for a number = of reasons.=20 The question is how this is handled in regards to note well, when they = want jabber scribes to relay opinions or proposals to the meeting.=20 Just a note for the future. I think we should allow anonymous listeners, = but should they really be allowed to participate? /O= From oej@edvina.net Fri Aug 2 03:26:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F8221E8353 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hchM6L3a+3RD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FE421E8137 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1690.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1690.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.144]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 24BE193C1AF; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:26:00 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F2A5@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:25:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <00622EA1-A6CC-4B15-BB74-D433E304C341@edvina.net> <8BE763BF-242B-4EFF-81D5-85983476CA5A@edvina.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F2A5@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> To: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Philip Matthews Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:26:04 -0000 2 aug 2013 kl. 11:41 skrev Ted Lemon : > On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >> The App Store app claims I'm not connected to Wifi or a mobile = network, even though I'm having a full WiFi icon in the top of the = screen. Tss tss. >=20 > Interesting. This is working for me on Mountain Lion. Is it when = you browse the store, or when you download something from it? Both = work for me. App Store on the Iphone, not on the laptop. Sorry for the confusion. /O= From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 03:27:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6397321E8249 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.214 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.214 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.615, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OtMRTXmcHdSL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D27421E835F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:27:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375439224; x=1406975224; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=1zGlYCw075U3N4xlmTEUEgBQi88Bm6wHefa2IKuMOo4=; b=OdxcsIiOdiJt0SYVXerAWp7tl/P/7KjufC/O7gCGhqeiqxQckrFlJ1OB qsT0yqLT5UTwtGWRtIvGEhyzFgmE7AXC3ZHRZVqwBkgPpNeUz2AjsDUz1 edv1TPmBNYXn+iZSfKFHO03eLkVkDuzetdggQha7eTCtxMA37AreTA4ic Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48801365" Received: from ironmsg02-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.16]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 03:27:02 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85723584" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 03:27:02 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72AR2RE022982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:27:02 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="514627334" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 03:27:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:26:03 -0700 To: John R Levine From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:27:13 -0000 At 11:56 AM +0200 8/2/13, John R Levine wrote: >> In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the >> U.S., unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through >> metal detector. So, did you remove your shoes because you were >> directed to, or out of habit? > > There are special rules for flights to the US, and one of those > rules is that the shoes come off. Special rules for Germany? Because, as I said, I'm used to an extra security check for U.S.-bound flights that usually focuses on liquids and often involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the U.S. from Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to come off (except for a period several years ago when LHR had a separate shoe-check station, but that's long gone). > If you have connections before your flight to the US, there's > invariably a re-inspection for the US flight including the barefoot > dance. From Europe, I typically connect in London, and there hasn't been a need to remove shoes there for a few years. That said, I always see other people in line remove their shoes, but I assume that's done out of habit. LHR security, in my experience, is the most annoying in the world, and they have confiscated toothpaste, lens cleaning solution, saline, solution, etc., but they have not demanded I remove my shoes in years. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- "American Non Sequitur Society -- We don't make sense, But we do like pizza." From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 2 03:31:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDF521E82C7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:31:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j8PFEL1Attx9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADB421E8255 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 84805 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2013 10:30:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b44.51fb8a4a.k1308; bh=2WFpD4V91+2IGqWFv8FYBT3kM7O76HBPxIuYOFNgslc=; b=JbOYksRun/E+BfrRFvxU1J4PFUlT2SLs7mBHO9fJpv86BwbXWbmV8BnxduJ+CeE6nbJPRUWd/T7NtebTBaBdNMBn60fnblgOrCV2ZEMDfTilcFlT34KHGe8dxe9EUMMUxcEgMbbMUz8MVFXyGaWIRXUOeLVIyXu0vgHr+9xFpXqoI5UUp9xagGyONBR5V+faczRPc6++LZ2HtA8B3yWQCMwz/ay78PU/9MaMdU3P/9Thqqy90iiT3NM6yKGvgD8d DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b44.51fb8a4a.k1308; bh=2WFpD4V91+2IGqWFv8FYBT3kM7O76HBPxIuYOFNgslc=; b=I0wrcs/5cK6zj8ZGCz7NU61ibxpb1bxir5siOBAPhAos6gdWZ/5Lfwx1wZyH7JCjzuUrv68PPtuoiv6UReAzpPARddgO0yrDouA3Y94S1xakJjtuN9e36Us+6gXYtMla2Voz4RzJJJ+B6OkiiDDuozas+hAfpkQlTciv0tvCzXuZXPVGabF+zqwvPhp9lVGye1evbtK3IA6ic+lFdJWkJHa0BjGr7MotUFIoFjA6Z62BSqMsPvjEsNyFZBner6ZK Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 2 Aug 2013 10:30:12 -0000 Date: 2 Aug 2013 12:30:33 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Randall Gellens" In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:31:00 -0000 > involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the U.S. from Hong > Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to come off (except for a > period several years ago when LHR had a separate shoe-check station, but > that's long gone). Dunno, I usually connect in Canada and the shoes definitely come off there for US bound flights. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From cja@daydream.com Fri Aug 2 03:31:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42D211E810B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:31:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.143 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.143 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hb3V8CCk7X6x for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f172.google.com (mail-ve0-f172.google.com [209.85.128.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7094C21E834C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id oz10so452141veb.31 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=4mSlLN4S2kk73l+RF18ez/pmWJ2zrT+XlrPyuvJnXo8=; b=FyOgJIDCwTjHAZvykIECf+nFpLr/ouKB8rWI70BGgWq6FBNmx9Z1Xew3WIJLY7wtdA UwH82/NwbX5R4PQ0OYZj+63u379SQ4AKB0oQFerw/Uo3a7Kv0EwkPsiBYZ7T3tI0Vslh h2pACNw64rBdwEcnHfXGXsf3ejK+MzVR4CvoE38h2lNNNflMBvA4vg86L24fZIUB4ics U+bGtxNY2lNit/xMzJL9GEkcbZ6RDpYjQr9YZKoRwdAU2P9zMAXwzrl9CI0uAGxbFvZk f3saLNoPCepyF9PB7cUqnwW5/H91Nz7nApkwT2ovlfpgL+7fsOeMyXRH5x6aAGv3rkSy Z1KQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.196.11 with SMTP id ee11mr1794779vcb.96.1375439485715; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.98 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2001:df8:0:16:c953:5d19:7f4b:93da] In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:31:25 +0200 Message-ID: From: CJ Aronson To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132e884f4d94904e2f475c9 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnRo4BDWS1NrT/QTWiTUxZh0LpJMipbY/QVwZKGweVF0vFKN+QQvHaPayl3+KHPRH2AYLst Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:31:41 -0000 --001a1132e884f4d94904e2f475c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to Berlin and had to take off our shoes. We flew SFO - LHR - Berlin. Everyone in our line had to take off our shoes. ----CJ On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 11:56 AM +0200 8/2/13, John R Levine wrote: > > In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S., >>> unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal detector. >>> So, did you remove your shoes because you were directed to, or out of >>> habit? >>> >> >> There are special rules for flights to the US, and one of those rules is >> that the shoes come off. >> > > Special rules for Germany? Because, as I said, I'm used to an extra > security check for U.S.-bound flights that usually focuses on liquids and > often involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the U.S. from > Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to come off > (except for a period several years ago when LHR had a separate shoe-check > station, but that's long gone). > > If you have connections before your flight to the US, there's invariably >> a re-inspection for the US flight including the barefoot dance. >> > > From Europe, I typically connect in London, and there hasn't been a need > to remove shoes there for a few years. That said, I always see other > people in line remove their shoes, but I assume that's done out of habit. > LHR security, in my experience, is the most annoying in the world, and > they have confiscated toothpaste, lens cleaning solution, saline, solution, > etc., but they have not demanded I remove my shoes in years. > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > "American Non Sequitur Society -- > We don't make sense, > But we do like pizza." > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --001a1132e884f4d94904e2f475c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to Berlin and = had to take off our shoes. =A0We flew SFO - LHR - Berlin. =A0 =A0Everyone i= n our line had to take off our shoes. =A0

----CJ


On Fri, Aug 2= , 2013 at 12:26 PM, Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@qualcomm.com> wrote:
At 11:56 AM +0200 8/2/13, John R Levine wrot= e:

=A0In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S.= , unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal det= ector. =A0So, did you remove your shoes because you were directed to, or ou= t of habit?

=A0There are special rules for flights to the US, and one of those rules is= that the shoes come off.

Special rules for Germany? =A0Because, as I said, I'm used to an extra = security check for U.S.-bound flights that usually focuses on liquids and o= ften involves a hand-search of carry-on. =A0But for flights to the U.S. fro= m Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to come off (exc= ept for a period several years ago when LHR had a separate shoe-check stati= on, but that's long gone).

=A0If you have connections before your flight to the US, there's invari= ably a re-inspection for the US flight including the barefoot dance.

>From Europe, I typically connect in London, and there hasn't been a nee= d to remove shoes there for a few years. =A0That said, I always see other p= eople in line remove their shoes, but I assume that's done out of habit= . =A0LHR security, in my experience, is the most annoying in the world, and= they have confiscated toothpaste, lens cleaning solution, saline, solution= , etc., but they have not demanded I remove my shoes in years.

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
=A0"American Non Sequitur Society --
=A0 We don't make sense,
=A0 But we do like pizza."
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--001a1132e884f4d94904e2f475c9-- From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 03:38:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177F011E829B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:38:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gr6tbHnT-TvQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57EE211E828C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id oz10so462694veb.17 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:38:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=aMutPtFGnCBGF3vMd+KzHa0+EXRyAm6/Y9kYkne3QRs=; b=S4s0DpPsRYbNzcm1ilR6JdiF0hnmjC1fg0HZXEPyYZd0HKG4gIa1Df33DDKn5750Ku Qm6zwZRNaC1kRBSI6g2lodFmXJSFG/n9iR3BY9NoolW1Ksnsb9Lv6nGsk9hdvoZH1RAx 7hHlyuUYj39gJMHuzstMPMF2hIl27Zna44Lbwdk4uaVfGp+Al/HAuOCEjNrjMvO5w4eO KM/Yp1y1f0iABdb+TG75DzGuoCzIvIJJU4Em0YfVJoKS8W2ZKPX60iVpSRpqngr/TYl6 bbevY8mdtzYTReqGQVv74XEOL9svTh3IdJEvZ7OHzElBeXOvezIDGgyRjEyehcQPaWEJ R2BQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.171.4 with SMTP id aq4mr1820537vec.26.1375439883761; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:38:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:38:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6743b4ae7e7304e2f48d23 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Berlin travelguide X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:38:07 -0000 --047d7b6743b4ae7e7304e2f48d23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Book is taken. On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I have Rick Steve's Berlin Snapshot book (it also has Dresden and > Goerlitz). I am leaving on Sunday a.m. and don't plan to take the book > back with me. If someone wants the book (Saturday evening), let me know. > > Mary. > --047d7b6743b4ae7e7304e2f48d23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Book is taken. =A0

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Mary Barnes <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:
I have Rick Steve's Ber= lin Snapshot book (it also has Dresden and Goerlitz). =A0I am leaving on Su= nday a.m. and don't plan to take the book back with me. =A0If someone w= ants the book (Saturday evening), let me know.

Mary.

--047d7b6743b4ae7e7304e2f48d23-- From ben@nostrum.com Fri Aug 2 03:44:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FEC11E827E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:44:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wcb5umuPtNQk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF7211E82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.119.3.230] ([68.171.109.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r72Ai5nx006810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:44:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:43:59 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> To: CJ Aronson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 68.171.109.163 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:44:19 -0000 The airport security guys consider inconsistency a feature. On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:31 PM, CJ Aronson wrote: > Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to Berlin and had to take = off our shoes. We flew SFO - LHR - Berlin. Everyone in our line had = to take off our shoes. =20 >=20 > ----CJ >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Randall Gellens = wrote: > At 11:56 AM +0200 8/2/13, John R Levine wrote: >=20 > In my experience, it's not standard to remove shoes outside the U.S., = unless one's shoes have metal that set off the walk-through metal = detector. So, did you remove your shoes because you were directed to, = or out of habit? >=20 > There are special rules for flights to the US, and one of those rules = is that the shoes come off. >=20 > Special rules for Germany? Because, as I said, I'm used to an extra = security check for U.S.-bound flights that usually focuses on liquids = and often involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the = U.S. from Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to = come off (except for a period several years ago when LHR had a separate = shoe-check station, but that's long gone). >=20 > If you have connections before your flight to the US, there's = invariably a re-inspection for the US flight including the barefoot = dance. >=20 > =46rom Europe, I typically connect in London, and there hasn't been a = need to remove shoes there for a few years. That said, I always see = other people in line remove their shoes, but I assume that's done out of = habit. LHR security, in my experience, is the most annoying in the = world, and they have confiscated toothpaste, lens cleaning solution, = saline, solution, etc., but they have not demanded I remove my shoes in = years. >=20 > --=20 > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself = only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > "American Non Sequitur Society -- > We don't make sense, > But we do like pizza." > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From prvs=919a34464=fmartin@linkedin.com Fri Aug 2 03:51:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA38A11E81B0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:51:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BQBqR6z2tN3k for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from esv4-mav05.corp.linkedin.com (esv4-mav05.corp.linkedin.com [69.28.149.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3DB011E810B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linkedin.com; i=@linkedin.com; q=dns/txt; s=proddkim1024; t=1375440676; x=1406976676; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=jMZIMRNE3rvRCOnwdzCqn4t8wfEM8kqUWIcmGCNnlGc=; b=fPR/vaQu+kxdtwxgVOwsOnTKNnOhoCbwHvF7TBmE52O37kIJ3ldeir2H 6BxquKDGEBi5U/luBGOtqrUH2Qyy+HvLtUZaNRWXCOP6O3dNR3bHk5icr kUSblBNsT2bY9NPx7YTkogjk4BxLF2LSm5uCn9nazL7X8APySM29WVH27 c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="57358656" Received: from ESV4-HT02.linkedin.biz (172.18.46.236) by esv4-cas01.linkedin.biz (172.18.46.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:50:55 -0700 Received: from ESV4-MBX01.linkedin.biz ([fe80::d029:a1fa:62c4:2641]) by ESV4-HT02.linkedin.biz ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:50:55 -0700 From: Franck Martin To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHOC+at4RiEEmdKLhbJ/pcdJmCMuoA Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:50:55 +0000 Message-ID: <77426B543150464AA3F30DF1A91365DE53C54D0C@ESV4-MBX01.linkedin.biz> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.18.46.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:51:20 -0000 Fun: How the IETF would fix global warming? By putting more air conditioner= s The first days were hot, especially in the hotel I stayed, there is a limit= on hotness and jet lag. I found the conference about the right temperature= , I could stay in t-shirt inside and outside. Usually I need to carry a pul= lover or jacket, otherwise I get sick by the difference of temperature. So = this was, hmm, refreshing, compared to other hotels where it always seem yo= u are in north pole. On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in Potsdam 1 r= ight now and uncomfortably warm. I'll be in another meeting room this afte= rnoon that was sweltering on Sunday. I had to leave the room on Sunday to = get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck as I was getting l= ight headed and felt I might pass out. I was wearing a short sleeve t-shi= rt and a very light, shorter skirt and sandles. =20 >=20 > We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the mantra tha= t if you are cold, you can add more layers. If you are too hot, you can on= ly take off so many layers. The problem with it being hot inside and out= side is that if you get overheated, there isn't a place to cool down. Bein= g from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for being out in 100+ we= ather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air conditioned house. I don't = have that option here. =20 >=20 > As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier than = too warm. As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly, I always have= a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when it's cold. Unfortunatel= y, I don't have anything in my backpack that will cool someone down. Altho= ugh, I do have paper, which I used on Sunday as well to try to cool down.=20 >=20 > Mary=20 >=20 From pthaler@broadcom.com Fri Aug 2 03:54:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD2011E810B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:54:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qbGyUZ6uc9Rd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D36C11E8210 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.208.57] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:48:21 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.14) by IRVEXCHCAS08.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:54:26 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:54:26 -0700 From: "Pat Thaler" To: "Randall Gellens" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: AQHOjjY9xS7xoVp+V0+VjtrICSUkx5mAaGmAgAAEaoCAAEapgIAAOC2AgADVOJ4= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:54:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7DE551FF1R076120732-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ben Campbell , Paul Aitken , "N.Leymann@telekom.de" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:54:48 -0000 Just went through for flight to Frankfurt. Shoes and belt not removed but t= he screener did have me empty pockets and take out the baggie of liquids.=20 Tablet which I initially left in also had to come out and tablet and bag we= re re-screened. Kindle didn't. It was pretty quick. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:42 AM, "Randall Gellens" wrot= e: > At 1:50 PM +0200 8/1/13, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 >> For those people indicating extra thorough security at TXL: What was yo= ur destination? (at least at USA vs Shengen vs other non-shengen country re= solution)? >=20 > I am wondering the same thing. Every time I've flown out of TXL it has b= een to LHR, and security has been standard for Europe: laptops must come ou= t, but shoes stay on and liquids can stay in. Very quick and easy. So I w= ondering if this is new, or specific to destination. (It's common for fligh= ts to the U.S. to have extra security, for example in HKG and NRT there is = often an extra security check on the jetbridge or U.S.-bound gates are behi= nd and extra security screening station.) >=20 > --=20 > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Dr. Beverly Crusher to Wesley Crusher as he is about to beam down to > begin his journey with the Traveler into other dimensions: "Be sure to > dress warmly on those other planes of existence." > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 From ynir@checkpoint.com Fri Aug 2 03:59:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFD611E8210 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.481 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.481 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfgaXsDmL2gK for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C2211E828A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r72Ax60l024385 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:59:06 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FB90FA-0-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:59:05 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: AQHOjjY9ykhyBPGLI0eD5a6m6I0e3Zl/wMaAgAAEaoCAAEapgIAAOC2AgAFKkICAAAFNAA== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 10:59:04 +0000 Message-ID: <4A1280BD-81F2-4EBC-8B6F-C9F261D1D477@checkpoint.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.96] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11d1db34ad6366a3241ba6623060c0444162e2603d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <74A3737DB96FBC47A4FC327A46AB3701@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:59:41 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Pat Thaler wrote: > Just went through for flight to Frankfurt. Shoes and belt not removed but= the screener did have me empty pockets and take out the baggie of liquids.= =20 >=20 > Tablet which I initially left in also had to come out and tablet and bag = were re-screened. Kindle didn't. >=20 > It was pretty quick. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone... ... which did or did not have to come out?= From cabo@tzi.org Fri Aug 2 03:59:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71A211E8251 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.112 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.137, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VA214mkbiee for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE0211E82B0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 03:59:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r72Ax6Ha000856; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:59:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dhcp-90f8.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-90f8.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.8.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A314316; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:59:06 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:59:04 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> References: To: Mary Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 10:59:41 -0000 > get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck [...] > If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. I think you just contradicted yourself. (I actually recommend taking off the shoes and putting the feet into a = small basin of cool (not cold) water. We might get a few of those from = the hotel if we ask.) > As always this is totally individual Actually, this is a well-known occupational health issue, in particular = with respect to the diversity in perception (including certain = predictors on that perception based on biological parameters). There are enough standards to give ample guidance. At the beginning of the week I gave a few details of how this is treated = properly in Germany. Given the fact that the weather was unusual in Berlin on Sunday and the = Hotel may have run into capacity limits that day, the room climate has = been handled near perfectly by the hotel. I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high = altitude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. I = prefer to work in an organization that doesn't routinely injure its = members. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From york@isoc.org Fri Aug 2 04:01:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D0811E82B3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KBFYJG88kuxs for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0153.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C7F11E82B2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.146) by BLUPR06MB068.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.731.16; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:00:46 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.198]) by BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.81]) with mapi id 15.00.0731.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:00:45 +0000 From: Dan York To: Ted Lemon , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? Thread-Index: AQHOjr4a5brCocLMHEiuzClwaRMlxZmB4xuA Importance: low X-Priority: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:00:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.255.101.4] x-forefront-prvs: 0926B0E013 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(199002)(189002)(24454002)(43784003)(377454003)(479174003)(63696002)(76482001)(19580405001)(16406001)(80022001)(65816001)(83322001)(81542001)(59766001)(77982001)(36756003)(19580395003)(81342001)(56776001)(56816003)(46102001)(80976001)(51856001)(50986001)(47976001)(74662001)(76176001)(53806001)(74366001)(77096001)(47736001)(74706001)(4396001)(49866001)(31966008)(79102001)(69226001)(54316002)(54356001)(74876001)(76786001)(83072001)(47446002)(76796001)(74502001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB068; H:BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:10.255.101.4; RD:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:01:28 -0000 Ted, On 8/1/13 3:50 PM, "Ted Lemon" wrote: >My goal in asking the rest of the IESG and the NOC to agree to set up >this network was essentially to make it possible for us to eat our own >dogfood. Some IETFers are able to do everything they need to do on the >v6only network, but for most of us there are too many services we >routinely use that are not available that way. And thank you all for having the NAT64 network set up. It was very useful to see what worked and didn't work in a NAT64 environment. I hope that we will continue the experiment in Vancouver and future IETF events. >Oh, my results? =20 My results weren't as good as yours. I had no problem whatsoever accessing any websites - that all seemed to work fine. Evernote worked. However: - My connection to my work email server didn't work. - DropBox was unable to connect (I noticed Arturo had this problem, too) - Skype didn't connect - Jabber was mixed: * my Gmail worked fine * my jabber.org account did NOT work * my jabber.isoc.org account did NOT work Given these challenges I had to flip back to the other networks, although admittedly it did provide some nice time free of interruptions... (but I couldn't join WG Jabber chats via my normal jabber account). I'd be curious to try it again next time. Thanks again for the experiment, Dan From pthaler@broadcom.com Fri Aug 2 04:11:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A358311E8273 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id enduEeKOruRe for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F4E11E828F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.208.53] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:04:01 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.16) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:10:06 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:10:06 -0700 From: "Pat Thaler" To: "John R Levine" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: AQHOjjY9xS7xoVp+V0+VjtrICSUkx5mAaGmAgAAEaoCAAEapgIAALF0AgAFDqgCAAAJ8AIAACE6AgAABQoD//5W01A== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7DE54DAB1R076124866-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:11:26 -0000 Canada, at least for the major airports is different because you go through= US customs & immigration there and are sort of in the US before you board= the plane.=20 I've not had to take off my shoes in Europe or Asia - including flights fro= m Germany to US.. Even flying from Victoria, BC to USA (which is too small = to have US customs and immigration), one did't need to remove shoes. Pat Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:31 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the U.S. from Ho= ng Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to come off (except = for a period several years ago when LHR had a separate shoe-check station, = but that's long gone). >=20 > Dunno, I usually connect in Canada and the shoes definitely come off ther= e for US bound flights. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 From tony@att.com Fri Aug 2 04:14:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0748011E82C7; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N0IVdH8gqiqS; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F5911E82C3; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 0849bf15.0.7621625.00-401.20984937.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:14:08 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 51fb94802c6233f9-507f1b2f76b8d37644c32f1984093530ba40dca1 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72BE8rl012929; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:14:08 -0400 Received: from alpi133.aldc.att.com (alpi133.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.3]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72BE4Xa012908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:14:05 -0400 Received: from alpi153.aldc.att.com (alpi153.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by alpi133.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:13:52 GMT Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72BDqbp002188; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:13:52 -0400 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72BDoBo002127; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:13:50 -0400 Received: from [135.70.11.218] (vpn-135-70-11-218.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.11.218]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20130802111348gw100bhhtle> (Authid: tony); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:13:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.11.218] Message-ID: <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:13:47 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=WbS7nTdX c=1 sm=0 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8UMqPvVAA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=SQo6OefQvGoA:10 a=3ukmKKXcZEAA:10 a=BeOuFyy3WhUA:10 a=ofM] X-AnalysisOut: [gfj31e3cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=zQP7CpK] X-AnalysisOut: [OAAAA:8 a=zsed4yItdTQA:10 a=EdxYTAC1vDpx1SulLrEA:9 a=wPNLv] X-AnalysisOut: [fGTeEIA:10 a=rxCBxMuhOtcA:10 a=yan2cHgBrWIA:10] Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:14:33 -0000 Our current badges have a UPC code on one side. Seems like this could be turned into or augmented with a QR code that had the name in it. Tony Hansen On 7/29/2013 10:14 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > There was once an idea for waving your badge at a sensor on the mike and > having your name displayed on the (a) screen. From pthaler@broadcom.com Fri Aug 2 04:14:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D3E11E810B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k0E1QdUEYU1V for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFBF11E82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.208.53] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:08:15 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.8) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:20 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:14:20 -0700 From: "Pat Thaler" To: "Yoav Nir" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Tegel Airport Thread-Index: AQHOjjY9xS7xoVp+V0+VjtrICSUkx5mAaGmAgAAEaoCAAEapgIAAOC2AgADVOJ6AAHalAP//juoo Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:14:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3F7BBCFC-CCDC-4591-8CDB-8F519F8B683A@broadcom.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com>, , <4A1280BD-81F2-4EBC-8B6F-C9F261D1D477@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <4A1280BD-81F2-4EBC-8B6F-C9F261D1D477@checkpoint.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7DE54C951R076125627-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:14:45 -0000 Laptop, bag of liquids, and tablet out. Pockets emptied.=20 Everything else stayed in place.=20 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:00 PM, "Yoav Nir" wrote: >=20 > On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Pat Thaler > wrote: >=20 >> Just went through for flight to Frankfurt. Shoes and belt not removed bu= t the screener did have me empty pockets and take out the baggie of liquids= .=20 >>=20 >> Tablet which I initially left in also had to come out and tablet and bag= were re-screened. Kindle didn't. >>=20 >> It was pretty quick. >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone... >=20 > ... which did or did not have to come out? > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Fri Aug 2 04:18:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4AB11E80FC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dMFLo2I9ITJ1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og112.obsmtp.com (exprod7og112.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.177]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DEE11E8303 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob112.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfuVlcukcm4wRi7jAFoyAvXu3Vm0vadz@postini.com; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:18:45 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 681241B8290 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F463190065; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:45 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHs5uH6IhNjUqWJoeNU/1aMZmCNR8AgAAFhIA= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:18:44 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F936@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:18:53 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high = altitude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. +1 There have been some rooms that were uncomfortably warm at this IETF, but a= t other IETFs there have been occasions where I was so cold I was shivering= , even though it was warm outside. There's likely not much we can do abou= t either thing, but I would say this venue has been less of a problem than = others I have attended. From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:19:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50AE11E8273 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.414 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.414 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ywqugpy6od5Z for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x232.google.com (mail-vb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425F411E81A6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id x14so457934vbb.9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:18:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UEBGLrUioNJ3mz9h/cZQgW9ECMiPwbv7Q/um8HNRrOY=; b=Y+FlKg0YMrAdWSO60Hzbv+KdHubfi6VNujQI9AX7MbhAEjxEeOiz7FZh4gqOwiA9+T 346DljSNonB6OiScIc0JtD5mXC2oZ5PojbnEEQ1V9b0yJ0BLxNA2Ei56RxvlZ+5LCzQG KXtxK7PBR9eg8r7wLNAJWpt9JtrJ/bHt6uk1uEb9Z2VD5Z1eZJOan98v4QqL1ZwQsanT Piw1UlPGnBbPXehjb7g+4J2ZVT+rOupBP5traNbQLfTJcb+F3BBflSswH0m5d3SwCj4u 1gAFJgA8bo428ym1GZSNhW8L/UFCjJlLtCME9TxVOjXV0OKhiSsGkg1VMXg93cKKIj+j CPFA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.232.165 with SMTP id tp5mr1575375vdc.11.1375442332678; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:18:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> References: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:18:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f480a6013404e2f51f6b Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:19:00 -0000 --089e0122f480a6013404e2f51f6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck > [...] > > If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. > > I think you just contradicted yourself. > > [MB] In what way? I said that I have something in my backpack. I had to leave the meeting room to get the washcloth. [/MB] > (I actually recommend taking off the shoes and putting the feet into a > small basin of cool (not cold) water. We might get a few of those from t= he > hotel if we ask.) > [MB] Personally, I would much rather many folks not take off their shoes in meeting rooms if they are hot. You are correct, if I wasn't in a meeting, I could have gone to my room to soak my feet. I also think it's not that prudent to have one's feet in the water in a room full of electrically powered devices. [/MB] > > > As always this is totally individual > > Actually, this is a well-known occupational health issue, in particular > with respect to the diversity in perception (including certain predictors > on that perception based on biological parameters). > There are enough standards to give ample guidance. > At the beginning of the week I gave a few details of how this is treated > properly in Germany. > > Given the fact that the weather was unusual in Berlin on Sunday and the > Hotel may have run into capacity limits that day, the room climate has be= en > handled near perfectly by the hotel. > > I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high > altitude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. I > prefer to work in an organization that doesn't routinely injure its membe= rs. > [MB] Actually there were a number of folks I saw coughing/sneezing. And passing out from heat exhaustion isn't a problem in your mind? I have one suggestion for folks that find themselves always cold as I was in the category previously. I did not complain nor expect anyone to crank up the heat because I dressed properly to deal with it, including using a scarf around my neck. I highly recommend you get your thyroid checked thoroughly (not just TSH) as well as your iron levels (ferritin in particular as that's your storage of iron) if you find yourself in that category. Since I've addressed those issues, I'm no longer the person that wears a sweater when others are in shorts/t-shirts. You can find lots of good lists online that describe the symptoms of low thyroid function. One interesting correlation is that Raynaud's (which is where you hands turn blue and hurt when exposed to cold) is highly correlated with low thyroid function. [/MB] > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > --089e0122f480a6013404e2f51f6b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:59= AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my = neck
[...]
> If you are too hot, you can only take off so many la= yers.

I think you just contradicted yourself.

[MB] In what way? =A0I said that I have something in = my backpack. =A0I had to leave the meeting room to get the washcloth. =A0[/= MB]
=A0
(I actually recommend taking off the shoes and putting the feet into a smal= l basin of cool (not cold) water. =A0We might get a few of those from the h= otel if we ask.)
[MB] Personally, I would much rather = many folks not take off their shoes in meeting rooms if they are hot. =A0Yo= u are correct, if I wasn't in a meeting, I could have gone to my room t= o soak my feet. I also think it's not that prudent to have one's fe= et in the water in a room full of electrically powered devices. [/MB]=A0

> As always this is totally individual

Actually, this is a well-known occupational health issue, in particul= ar with respect to the diversity in perception (including certain predictor= s on that perception based on biological parameters).
There are enough standards to give ample guidance.
At the beginning of the week I gave a few details of how this is treated pr= operly in Germany.

Given the fact that the weather was unusual in Berlin on Sunday and the Hot= el may have run into capacity limits that day, the room climate has been ha= ndled near perfectly by the hotel.

I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high al= titude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. =A0I prefe= r to work in an organization that doesn't routinely injure its members.=
[MB] Actually there were a number of folks I saw coughing= /sneezing. =A0And passing out from heat exhaustion isn't a problem in y= our mind?
I have one suggestion for folks that find themselves al= ways cold as I was in the category previously. =A0I did not complain nor ex= pect anyone to crank up the heat =A0because I dressed properly to deal with= it, including using a scarf around my neck. =A0 I highly recommend you get= your thyroid checked thoroughly (not just TSH) as well as your iron levels= (ferritin in particular as that's your storage of iron) if you find yo= urself in that category. =A0 Since I've addressed those issues, I'm= no longer the person that wears a sweater when others are in shorts/t-shir= ts. =A0You can find lots of good lists online that describe the symptoms of= low thyroid function. =A0One interesting correlation is that Raynaud's= (which is where you hands turn blue and hurt when exposed to cold) is high= ly correlated with low thyroid function.=A0
[/MB]=A0

Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten


--089e0122f480a6013404e2f51f6b-- From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Fri Aug 2 04:20:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD9111E8210 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:20:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XXYoaT5OPBTC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5E511E81A6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porto.nomis80.org (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1000]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A29194042B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:20:37 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> In-Reply-To: <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:20:40 -0000 Le 2013-08-02 13:13, Tony Hansen a écrit : > Our current badges have a UPC code on one side. > > Seems like this could be turned into or augmented with a QR code that > had the name in it. s/name/vCard/ With that you could add an attendee to your phone's address book by photographing the badge. Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From adam@nostrum.com Fri Aug 2 04:21:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE43111E81A6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.46 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.46 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.140, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i1zUYu2mcTAs for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1222621E829F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-55a4.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-55a4.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.85.164]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r72BKuIt010886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:20:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <51FB961A.7030103@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:20:58 +0200 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> In-Reply-To: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 130.129.85.164 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:21:11 -0000 On 8/2/13 12:11, Tony Hansen wrote: > What's the recommended amount of time to get to Tegel before a flight? > > For example, if a flight is leaving at 10:00, should you get there at > 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, 9:00? > Huh. Based on the airline counter check-in lines [1] when I landed, I was thinking it was somewhere between 24 and 48 hours. Maybe something exceptional was going on, but the lines for both Air Berlin and whomever was the next counter over were long enough to make it impossible to use the concessions on the opposite side of the walkway. OTOH, the "One World Ruby, Emerald and Sapphire" line for Air Berlin had approximately two people in it. YMMV. /a ____ [1] Not security checkpoint lines, but the actual, airline-operated lines to, e.g., get a boarding pass and/or check a bag. From Marco.Davids@sidn.nl Fri Aug 2 04:23:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C4011E81A6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:23:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGUhrf3BV-ZS for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ede1-kamx.sidn.nl (kamx.sidn.nl [IPv6:2a00:d78:0:147:94:198:152:69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3593E11E8210 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; d=sidn.nl; s=sidn_nl; c=relaxed/relaxed; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-originating-ip; bh=3jyJC+SM4MZBMlvruEu4A077JEvVax1GAjeVkI20E4M=; b=pnRCo42n0iaTfEBEnO/JFpeAcUX78uOw+NWLdf2mvh6/e0CKFjUwBMBdx8D0xJmKIqY6y2Zygoj8AqD2jyQ63ET+aqr+IOKXtSY58TcrSB8CM2qbFMYO89ISja8km+w8kUlMXeX6r957L8RS6BrRVY5EyHLea4laU8TnT6zV4d0= Received: from kahubcasn02.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.74]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id r72BNFB8026027-r72BNFBA026027 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:23:15 +0200 Received: from dhcp-242e.meeting.ietf.org (94.198.152.219) by kahubcasn02.SIDN.local (192.168.2.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:23:15 +0200 Message-ID: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:23:15 +0200 From: "Marco Davids (SIDN)" Organization: SIDN User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: <87attendees@ietf.org> References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [94.198.152.219] Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:23:22 -0000 On 8/2/13 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for > being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air > conditioned house. The solution may be just in there (lucky you); perhaps you could try, a few weeks in advance, to lower your airco gradually, so your body can slowly adapt to warmer temperatures. -- Marco From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 2 04:24:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC3421E8092 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TPnwcW8o2mFw for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12F421E82F9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V5DSn-0003H6-Uu; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:24:06 +0000 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:24:08 +0200 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Simon Perreault In-Reply-To: <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:24:12 -0000 >> Seems like this could be turned into or augmented with a QR code that >> had the name in it. > s/name/vCard/ some may not want their identity details too easily read randy From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Fri Aug 2 04:26:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B4F21E834B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:26:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.368, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5IQYnwYlmT8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw7.ericsson.se (mailgw7.ericsson.se [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2F421E8328 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:26:17 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-b7ef76d000004bbc-0d-51fb9755f942 Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw7.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 4B.1B.19388.5579BF15; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:26:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.135]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:26:13 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Mary Barnes , Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj29NOC+at4RiEEmdKLhbJ/pcdJmBo7wAgAAimkA= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:26:12 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AE@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AEESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvrW7Y9N+BBm2XuC0eNu1kszgy5S6r xd5bv5kdmD12zrrL7rFkyU8mj2mLMgOYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy1m1dzFLwJr5i1ZM1rA2M vUFdjBwcEgImEpfm6HcxcgKZYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMwosfPVa2aQhJDAYkaJGbMDQerZBCwk uv9pg5giAp4SXzaZgJjMAoYS6zvcQYqFgQae3zyFBcQWETCVuH1mCRuEbSXRsWUVK0g5i4CK xIdL6iBhXgFfif2XzjNDLL3IJHHjbQtYPadAoMTG9h9gcxiBLvt+ag0TiM0sIC7x4eB1ZoiL BSSW7DkPZYtKvHz8jxXCVpJoXPKEFaI+X2LWN4iZvAKCEidnPmGZwCg6C8moWUjKZiEpg4jr SdyYOoUNwtaWWLbwNVS9rsSMf4dYkMUXMLKvYmTPTczMSS8338QIjK6DW34b7GDcdF/sEKM0 B4uSOO9mvTOBQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhj7Xlzh5Nf6xTo3LIhPw1q2mV/0 Id8i7sreLMOly32rmmU/v9k3X+viRRn3qwcsT4qVTXjyXqzlwQeBw23/XQ/PcFz34v/WY68W ak3+s29fPMdsrn7H2sLA++sXr36yXkZjhW1Ev2OewJmv++81reyUP3T4/5H18WE+5bcWbVhi xR6d9buH1/6YEktxRqKhFnNRcSIAofEfGXwCAAA= Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:26:47 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AEESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some are used/sensitive to AC, others are not. In my PERSONAL opinion, the room temperature has been perfect in Berlin. I mostly get a cold in AC rooms, but it is not so much about the temperatur= e itself (living in Finland, I am used to cold temperatures :), but the col= d air flow. Regards, Christer L=E4hett=E4j=E4: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@i= etf.org] Puolesta Mary Barnes L=E4hetetty: 2. elokuuta 2013 14:19 Vastaanottaja: Carsten Bormann Kopio: 87attendees@ietf.org Aihe: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Carsten Bormann > wrote: > get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck [...] > If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. I think you just contradicted yourself. [MB] In what way? I said that I have something in my backpack. I had to l= eave the meeting room to get the washcloth. [/MB] (I actually recommend taking off the shoes and putting the feet into a smal= l basin of cool (not cold) water. We might get a few of those from the hot= el if we ask.) [MB] Personally, I would much rather many folks not take off their shoes in= meeting rooms if they are hot. You are correct, if I wasn't in a meeting,= I could have gone to my room to soak my feet. I also think it's not that p= rudent to have one's feet in the water in a room full of electrically power= ed devices. [/MB] > As always this is totally individual Actually, this is a well-known occupational health issue, in particular wit= h respect to the diversity in perception (including certain predictors on t= hat perception based on biological parameters). There are enough standards to give ample guidance. At the beginning of the week I gave a few details of how this is treated pr= operly in Germany. Given the fact that the weather was unusual in Berlin on Sunday and the Hot= el may have run into capacity limits that day, the room climate has been ha= ndled near perfectly by the hotel. I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high al= titude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. I prefer = to work in an organization that doesn't routinely injure its members. [MB] Actually there were a number of folks I saw coughing/sneezing. And pa= ssing out from heat exhaustion isn't a problem in your mind? I have one suggestion for folks that find themselves always cold as I was i= n the category previously. I did not complain nor expect anyone to crank u= p the heat because I dressed properly to deal with it, including using a s= carf around my neck. I highly recommend you get your thyroid checked thor= oughly (not just TSH) as well as your iron levels (ferritin in particular a= s that's your storage of iron) if you find yourself in that category. Sin= ce I've addressed those issues, I'm no longer the person that wears a sweat= er when others are in shorts/t-shirts. You can find lots of good lists onl= ine that describe the symptoms of low thyroid function. One interesting co= rrelation is that Raynaud's (which is where you hands turn blue and hurt wh= en exposed to cold) is highly correlated with low thyroid function. [/MB] Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AEESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Some are u= sed/sensitive to AC, others are not.

 = ;

In my PERS= ONAL opinion, the room temperature has been perfect in Berlin.

 = ;

I mostly g= et a cold in AC rooms, but it is not so much about the temperature itself (= living in Finland, I am used to cold temperatures :), but the cold air flow.

 = ;

Regards,

 = ;

Christer

 = ;

L=E4hett=E4j=E4: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] Puolesta Mary Barnes
L=E4hetetty: 2. elokuuta 2013 14:19
Vastaanottaja: Carsten Bormann
Kopio: 87attendees@ietf.org
Aihe: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature?<= /p>

 

 

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Carsten Bormann <= cabo@tzi.org> wrot= e:

> get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap aroun= d my neck

[...]

> If you are too h= ot, you can only take off so many layers.

I think you just cont= radicted yourself.

[MB] In what way?  I said that I have something= in my backpack.  I had to leave the meeting room to get the washcloth= .  [/MB]

 

(I actually recommend taking off the shoes and putti= ng the feet into a small basin of cool (not cold) water.  We might get= a few of those from the hotel if we ask.)

[MB] Personally, I would much rather many folks not = take off their shoes in meeting rooms if they are hot.  You are correc= t, if I wasn't in a meeting, I could have gone to my room to soak my feet. = I also think it's not that prudent to have one's feet in the water in a room full of electrically powered devices. [/= MB] 


> As always this is totally individual

Actually, this is a well-known occupational health i= ssue, in particular with respect to the diversity in perception (including = certain predictors on that perception based on biological parameters).
There are enough standards to give ample guidance.
At the beginning of the week I gave a few details of how this is treated pr= operly in Germany.

Given the fact that the weather was unusual in Berlin on Sunday and the Hot= el may have run into capacity limits that day, the room climate has been ha= ndled near perfectly by the hotel.

I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in high al= titude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting.  I pr= efer to work in an organization that doesn't routinely injure its members.<= o:p>

[MB] Actually there were a number of folks I saw cou= ghing/sneezing.  And passing out from heat exhaustion isn't a problem = in your mind?

I have one suggestion for folks that find themselves= always cold as I was in the category previously.  I did not complain = nor expect anyone to crank up the heat  because I dressed properly to = deal with it, including using a scarf around my neck.   I highly recommend you get your thyroid checked thoroughly= (not just TSH) as well as your iron levels (ferritin in particular as that= 's your storage of iron) if you find yourself in that category.   Sinc= e I've addressed those issues, I'm no longer the person that wears a sweater when others are in shorts/t-shirts.  = You can find lots of good lists online that describe the symptoms of low th= yroid function.  One interesting correlation is that Raynaud's (which = is where you hands turn blue and hurt when exposed to cold) is highly correlated with low thyroid function. 

[/MB] 


Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

 

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AEESESSMB209erics_-- From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:28:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775E021E831F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:28:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXQc9sRyHnib for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x234.google.com (mail-ve0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246DF21F9F52 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f180.google.com with SMTP id pb11so493797veb.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:28:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YQo5Zuhx8pYyKqO5k9XNkH7QRko/L1uG7cdEiKsPq6Y=; b=NcaTSEgVcqbijIg0w8tJMA4JhGFSb/xZBTvUks8oJ6NPNnzRaZIzDV2ramwtCKQ/Il a/7usWgoeUkfSKxExAZ9kQEwdTLGOvdlfwSdhRM4giSMdeg4oFtQRWZocwLG7wynETyk del80+aYmdFvQCSqIsl60hDw18pGkSDbvjo/+71EKKv+tQowhAbMiYuwkkDAh8Wxw3JJ DhHiylqm0BELwSuiOuDDdAns2WUF3VMYD1E5kRHNv3+fluGyJ023dj/T1jSL20FgeqS9 E9QdyOEtF/n5cYaqVX2pKUNN8BpI/fD9EmcUp86/UJDhYMspkfNcttRwwucUOfKMf8kW mM9Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.182.69 with SMTP id cb5mr232141vcb.41.1375442891350; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:28:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> References: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:28:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "Marco Davids (SIDN)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1132e2c2f2a6f004e2f54019 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:28:30 -0000 --001a1132e2c2f2a6f004e2f54019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Marco Davids (SIDN) wrote: > On 8/2/13 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for > > being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air > > conditioned house. > > The solution may be just in there (lucky you); perhaps you could try, a > few weeks in advance, to lower your airco gradually, so your body can > slowly adapt to warmer temperatures. > [MB] Huh? As I said, I can spend time outside in Texas heat - riding my bike, gardening, etc. I don't know at all what you mean that turning my AC lower would help at all? Perhaps you meant to raise my A/C? I do that during the day but I cannot sleep at nite when it is hot (research shows that a cooler temperature improves the quality of sleep). [/MB] > > -- > Marco > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --001a1132e2c2f2a6f004e2f54019 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Marco Davids (SIDN) <marco.davi= ds@sidn.nl> wrote:
On 8/2/13 12:21 PM, Mary B= arnes wrote:

> Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for
> being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air
> conditioned house.

The solution may be just in there (lucky you); perhaps you could try,= a
few weeks in advance, to lower your airco gradually, so your body can
slowly adapt to warmer temperatures.
[MB] Huh? =A0 As = I said, I can spend time outside in Texas heat - riding my bike, gardening,= etc. =A0 I don't know at all what you mean that turning my AC lower wo= uld help at all? =A0Perhaps you meant to raise my A/C? =A0I do that during = the day but I cannot sleep at nite when it is hot (research shows that a co= oler temperature improves the quality of sleep). [/MB]

--
Marco

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--001a1132e2c2f2a6f004e2f54019-- From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Aug 2 04:33:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A15421E808D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.140, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lJkudRQ3lD9m for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D71B21F9FCF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r72BWEID013719 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:32:14 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r72BWEID013719 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1375443134; bh=t0ma9ZYuFwqPg+EUmtBBj3F2LOk=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:Mime-Version:References; b=b2EUWD2vvvYSrIT4qZSoMf/SAGfbM3kDiF3j4GJ5lfKxHxEMpINGXCdbt2aiuRXYm YyLed0DigscPJPKtKDDn0MK8fD63bZJ44vgvXfJ84vn7jCNgOy18rmz2HPdnMitNM+ P0Rmonf9iPFG4RplVpVxqZRphatxT83CnfDtWLn8= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p71CWE05445141131Y ret-id none; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:32:14 +0100 Received: from dhcp-1687.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1687.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.135]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r72BWAbF009182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:32:11 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:32:06 +0100 To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p71CWE054451411300; tid=p71CWE05445141131Y; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r72BWEID013719 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:33:07 -0000 Hi, Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue. Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), = lots of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the = hotel bar. Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent = biergarten, and other places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short = taxi ride or tube ride away. And very friendly and helpful staff in the = hotel. A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n = Bites. Thanks to everyone who made it possible :) Tim= From jon.hudson@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:36:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F3F11E82BE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:36:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.349, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rib4C2Kt8U7P for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-x232.google.com (mail-yh0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4953211E82EC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a41so270626yho.23 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:35:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=UlzCXUU96E9NR6/7WnIaaBLfhOlt+Cvff0DkPHauHy0=; b=Zj91cHxfQAaeH+ezrhjWjrzSgekZTHVGTGCSAC3vl3rhGK4CGbFZz/DgmLUQYf//LW YigpPo3Wz7I6b57cCMvpaWj5mKpF0+GD2SKj0TJkqsarf7RYGrPYVy4YRMVbKxrVEY+m WygaP0FiYURMCt04Olw+4AKoT7tVGd2iGXwzjR8mvpBKOsSyUYZogzT3xoQYwWJi59KQ cDRjX4IxpzpoZ7ygrqXccSE1g8TsWg8CrXdcdrsUXt8xJUURcGqBXb5UAE5z7CLGyMR/ g8peAtUTBK9mBplpfdmbvqQTWct5ObEtqcsWXbyQpen49kq16ouDr3K/er86HG/zkASR eMoA== X-Received: by 10.236.202.201 with SMTP id d49mr3640705yho.221.1375443350998; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.27.252.155] (mobile-166-147-110-086.mycingular.net. [166.147.110.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v68sm11505401yhn.22.2013.08.02.04.35.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:35:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <4A1280BD-81F2-4EBC-8B6F-C9F261D1D477@checkpoint.com> <3F7BBCFC-CCDC-4591-8CDB-8F519F8B683A@broadcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <3F7BBCFC-CCDC-4591-8CDB-8F519F8B683A@broadcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Jon Hudson Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:35:43 +0200 To: Pat Thaler Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:36:49 -0000 @ TXL liquids out, electronics out, empty pockets etc. @ FRA moving from A to Z Terminal: Very nice passport guy, no additional ins= pection.=20 The passport control dumps you off right after security for Z.=20 On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:14 PM, "Pat Thaler" wrote: > Laptop, bag of liquids, and tablet out. Pockets emptied.=20 >=20 > Everything else stayed in place.=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:00 PM, "Yoav Nir" wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Pat Thaler >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Just went through for flight to Frankfurt. Shoes and belt not removed bu= t the screener did have me empty pockets and take out the baggie of liquids.= =20 >>>=20 >>> Tablet which I initially left in also had to come out and tablet and bag= were re-screened. Kindle didn't. >>>=20 >>> It was pretty quick. >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone... >>=20 >> ... which did or did not have to come out? >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Fri Aug 2 04:37:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC23511E82FA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O47Dk0uLSC5Z for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:44:76:96:27:212]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49F711E8321 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.89]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7nUG1m0021vN32cAEncdfc; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:36:37 +0000 Received: from dhcp-15b9.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.21.185]) by omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7naU1m0083zbtzW8inaWEy; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:34:35 +0000 Message-ID: <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:34:23 +0200 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> In-Reply-To: <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1375443397; bh=a2zWl10Otc0xk2208rozAesJq9Pj8gaAQQ1vfgu4vDU=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=J+L12S2CwUPHe6EtMGWCKOipm3kKMmDXH8Oo1tK/LHKxUPMXd8hmUZVMrVuSFfgZr tUnM7ONyx5x6uc0wZEVl67KTXuCoXRkp5AwTzoeey9UazVMsa+/+xiD4sWYTlpDwFy 0YHsYmriO4NmDnOlPh6wpoFhv6mBkSLBH/+oZV7WVn19DTQrtXf+y2BhHJXADfwVA3 CmfN+0CiRv+GoH1/qXBmMdT3gzlIMkZoAy7GbW6LwNt3pEh/YadIKERJbo+/LO4MHh 2D+2vjv5eEtRwZkoVtve4X69811nka6Y4uCjfndajZd4oTwQdBkwIZFM4PvqXWHl7A DyXTp4heHdbng== Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:37:12 -0000 On 8/2/13 1:20 PM, Simon Perreault wrote: > Le 2013-08-02 13:13, Tony Hansen a écrit : >> Our current badges have a UPC code on one side. >> >> Seems like this could be turned into or augmented with a QR code that >> had the name in it. > > s/name/vCard/ > > With that you could add an attendee to your phone's address book by > photographing the badge. I note that the badges this time are mostly the same on both sides except for the UPC. I find this to be a great feature because otherwise half the people have badges you can't read at all. I think you would lose that with a QR code. Also, while I can think of uses for the QR code, helping note takers identify the person at the mic is not one of them, unless we put a scanner at the mic, send the result out automatically on jabber, and have the (non-jabber) note taker monitor jabber to get the names. The badge is not helpful to the note taker unless the note taker is very close to (all the) mics. And even then it often isn't, because there is a low probability that the badge will be facing the note taker. Thanks, Paul From chengang@chinamobile.com Fri Aug 2 04:41:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C79721E8096 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, RELAY_IS_221=2.222] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIty5EcRcahc for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.176.64.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 34E6221F9344 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.20.21]) by rmmx-oa_allagent01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee151fb99dbb65-78b65; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:37:00 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee151fb99dbb65-78b65 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[130.129.48.42]) by rmsmtp-oa_rmapp03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee351fb99d68f9-81b62; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:37:00 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee351fb99d68f9-81b62 From: "GangChen" To: "'Ralph Droms'" , "'Ted Lemon'" References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <04AA89A9-3E30-4296-BCA8-FA8A9121C3A9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <04AA89A9-3E30-4296-BCA8-FA8A9121C3A9@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:37:57 +0800 Message-ID: <00cf01ce8f74$bf39af10$3dad0d30$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6PWWUE6+auKGxOTXG22ejEejijbwAGok4Q Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:41:01 -0000 I used the ietf-nat64 both on my laptop and iphone. I would like to say I got better user experience on the laptop, because most office tools work well. Some apps on iphone works. But some instant message apps are broken. Facetime is broken as well. That may be inconvenience for "communication". I also agree 464xlat would bring better experiences. gang -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Droms Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 4:08 PM To: Ted Lemon Cc: <87attendees@ietf.org> attendees Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? Trying it yesterday and today on an iPhone 5, iOS 6.1.4... Most everything seems to work ok, with good performance. As we discussed yesterday, ietf-nat64 seems to break iMessage. I think it's breaking my secure access to e-mail (both Cisco remote security access and gmail access). I'll continue to investigate. Thanks for running this test and I encourage others to join; the results, I think, will be important. - Ralph _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Fri Aug 2 04:41:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AB621E8328 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lAYnmSOCcK42 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFC311E82E8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.44]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7nVh1m0010x6nqcA7nfdSn; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:39:37 +0000 Received: from dhcp-15b9.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.21.185]) by omta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7ndT1m00X3zbtzW8YndWcd; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:37:35 +0000 Message-ID: <51FB99F7.30209@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:37:27 +0200 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> In-Reply-To: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1375443577; bh=evfMfBrten+8+G3AmLUWOU47ySgX1p7JXtTJwyLrhhQ=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=qKvUs3sk0E2INk5QsHcddJmQX8yT2O4rTo3GJxTOXzVGcz61WKA4Wh5xDtgPoTN6e yBrhUSJHnK1sAgn/gol7JmkgRqxsJ1JFueKyUeNNgcFefcOg43prjknVK0iwNdLdL7 OIvAaVdUUNL3G3uGYS2qwkLxWtRkrae/GxUqRFhn7K/bEPM3YWUPommnRZqod79pNQ joMnq3WgJWOayx7nooPvcotB050O9e/NEcnS1lGe77gbfPZrBSeqMc3ON3b9ZyMjBD CbEKkEUGNmNKviW0/Z++ELg6ONQRQAT00YTjxPCminr8y5vr3j9gXmEtRtaMzwSdDb ZxRA2F3nrv/qg== Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:41:15 -0000 On 8/2/13 1:23 PM, Marco Davids (SIDN) wrote: > On 8/2/13 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > >> Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for >> being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air >> conditioned house. > > The solution may be just in there (lucky you); perhaps you could try, a > few weeks in advance, to lower your airco gradually, so your body can > slowly adapt to warmer temperatures. Or the solution for those of you who are too cold in some venues to turn your AC colder in the weeks before a meeting to be prepared for colder temperatures. Perhaps we should survey the attendees for their preferred temperature and tolerance bands, and then come up with a target temperature that minimizes the average discomfort. Thanks, Paul From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 04:41:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEE921E834C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.17 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.17 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.571, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNRWgzApYlD2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BCFF21E8064 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375443645; x=1406979645; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=BOgXp+j8V6rp5UDm8gMRT/CI+mRFuk9haDmOU+xuFGU=; b=lW8C+gB1whLhvYp0A2CM1OMaTuAqSJkSFn5uJvNSa5goT2lRFlp5FCi3 2rqiMEcLIe4lnLioX3gI0sisogiMlH4ifEopGHMXjbrPqKEHASUE65+cO +vNU3zDTqrPqZcdcjilX5ByOqJmHjzRX4XwgF5u6R2sLZ+qNpChj3DawH 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48696774" Received: from ironmsg02-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.16]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:30 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85751375" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:20 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72BeIs8031335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:18 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85750877" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:39:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:26:27 -0700 To: Mary Barnes From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:41:23 -0000 At 5:21 AM -0500 8/2/13, Mary Barnes wrote: > I had to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my > room to wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt > I might pass out. I'm truly sorry you were so overheated, Mary. We do have this discussion every meeting, and of course everyone's preference is different. While I'm grateful I was comfortable during this meeting, of course I wouldn't want that to come at the expense of someone else being in distress! > I still stand by the mantra that if you are cold, you can add more > layers. If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. I understand the logic of this, and it's something I hear repeated constantly, although it always seems to be said by people who prefer it colder and are advising others :-) > As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier > than too warm. When I'm on a plane, I'm always complaining that it's way too hot (especially overnight when trying to sleep), which is funny because if I look around, many others seem cold, being wrapped in blankets. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- I always avoid prophesying beforehand, because it is a much better policy to prophesy after the event has already taken place. --Winston Churchill From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 04:41:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3FA21E8354 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.132 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.132 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.467, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGDddQvHB5Pl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1256721E8053 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375443646; x=1406979646; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=Cr8Dxd5ncbnVBA5FDz8fcyZtRy2qwwqlP+ZmEiDL48g=; b=mpg4xhVSxqZzmYVyJY1xEk9PIRjTAKZ4aUiIu2MmAlnOhW9W9cDrGoP0 rcTToqYk1+HjhhcwKXj4wFv8GuEA4l3VVmHHLpiLHXRzK7v/rVtyI5YYC H0lAdwtaNJfOsxHXGkqpj2Jhpl4+m7T3QiKBT8EBQ+fdR9hSWHAUh7AkM o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66368229" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:30 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="87824127" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:30 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72BeUtX031360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:30 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85751329" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052A8D4@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:30:24 -0700 To: John R Levine From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:41:34 -0000 At 12:30 PM +0200 8/2/13, John R Levine wrote: >> involves a hand-search of carry-on. But for flights to the U.S. >> from Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, and U.K., shoes do not need to >> come off (except for a period several years ago when LHR had a >> separate shoe-check station, but that's long gone). > > Dunno, I usually connect in Canada and the shoes definitely come > off there for US bound flights. Sure, but security in Canada for U.S. bound flights is done by the TSA -- it's a pre-clearance station, so you go through immigration, customs, and U.S. security before the flight to the U.S. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Democracy is a beautiful thing, except for that part about letting just any old yokel vote. --Anonymous, Age 10 From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 04:41:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2958C21E8053 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.224 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.224 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.375, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Abd55eVH9fHm for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B2521E808A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375443646; x=1406979646; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8XsmlZQqJ+p7xN7VOC2CdzoB0ylJhuMM5fExPMKdlAk=; b=Bx3gxPK0JKkHuUphg4XWG72RumXDfoxkPsufc2ZDCRFl0UZWY58w5qWw 7n9tsXDG7rFdA7YkS7fq6ZzzTRjK6L61Pveh1xJZRcC5rj0IJoT/peuPm Pk3z7+RNU7ud9yuAZMPtUdrLrl888DLnps9B4udWWob3VI4lEm03qRtEO s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66368248" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:32 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="87824131" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:32 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72BeUtY031360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:40:31 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85751394" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 04:40:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:33:18 -0700 To: CJ Aronson From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:41:34 -0000 At 12:31 PM +0200 8/2/13, CJ Aronson wrote: > Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to=20 > Berlin and had to take off our shoes. =CAWe flew=20 > SFO - LHR - Berlin. =CAEveryone in our line had=20 > to take off our shoes. I'm surprised to hear this! For my own=20 information, do you mind clarifying: which=20 airline did you use LHR-TXL, which LHR terminal=20 did you fly out of, and did the security staff=20 tell you to remove your shoes, or everyone just=20 do it because everyone ahead of them did? -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Money is the root of all evil, and man needs roots From linus@nordberg.se Fri Aug 2 04:44:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732D121E82EB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXVLfbbdqWai for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nordberg.se (smtp.nordberg.se [193.10.5.87]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EAD21E808E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amnesia.nordberg.se (sipb-tor.mit.edu [18.187.1.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.nordberg.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8BDCC11747; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:43:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Linus Nordberg To: "Olle E. Johansson" References: Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:43:01 +0000 Message-ID: <87pptwco8q.fsf@nordberg.se> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:44:14 -0000 "Olle E. Johansson" wrote Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:24:49 +0200: | Just a note for the future. I think we should allow anonymous listeners, but should they really be allowed to participate? If at all possible, yes. What does anonymous mean in this context and what does it take for a remote participant of an IETF meeting to authenticate (i.e. become not anonymous)? I'd guess that this has already been discussed to death but I thought I'd ask anyway since the subject came up. Happy to read up on any written material that I don't know about yet. From denghui02@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:44:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A0AC21E808F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zweg9MzmK34A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x22d.google.com (mail-qc0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1015721E8092 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id z10so256758qcx.4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:44:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NNOI2GqvjgaSoNwp4p1CrdLtEgBShuixxHTjUdCuNQA=; b=0bApCGTOmi6cVWDT/re96URtYpJHdGCqv++U455ZVfBXXsVQz+yn5764P2VAAW7d6o X6lCTP7rofSmb/e7/XMp0iGjwCDAcrn/gBbkQslUpnY2Mb5Qz+goaU+ebM1fedVsKJgq 3dr1GvfgsiL0oRZKzNbMQt4Ul1ZtcLahmf6bsykZpWE7o7L0EEgrd/5NuIdKdSlOiVjg p0Ic0mBDUsLx7WCemiO9DmlS/xsuOg9MzILuzGoe2JWca2VGQAu+HWIOBRP2hJkFNc4N ft3Lgz8dROwRQvg+hZBg27rEmFO90zTX+yH1s6o96k5vNUVk147qK+5oHZN0ojdzFJgf Kd1Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.76.140 with SMTP id c12mr1912770qck.109.1375443860450; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.16.41 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:44:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: Hui Deng To: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002354470aacb612d504e2f57a82 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:44:27 -0000 --002354470aacb612d504e2f57a82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Very good example of protection of environment, applaud -Hui 2013/8/2 Tim Chown > Hi, > > Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue. > > Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), lots > of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the hotel > bar. Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent biergarten, and > other places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube > ride away. And very friendly and helpful staff in the hotel. > > A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n > Bites. > > Thanks to everyone who made it possible :) > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --002354470aacb612d504e2f57a82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very good example of protection of environment, appla= ud
=A0
-Hui

<= br>
2013/8/2 Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi,

Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue.

Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), lots = of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the hotel ba= r. =A0Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent biergarten, and ot= her places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube rid= e away. =A0And very friendly and helpful staff in the hotel.

A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n Bites= .

Thanks to everyone who made it possible :)

Tim
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--002354470aacb612d504e2f57a82-- From scott.brim@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:45:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C8921E836C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FnETTiS1S3it for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AD221E8364 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 10so575360pdc.19 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:44:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=53q6n/Sf35QwSZSawCEwWMhSrbHdWOEz+f9MC/FF/O0=; b=j27jZOp7UJJP0jBGh5cZKa0okDWGWdpCRAexE33ucZaxXo8tgCayBBw5Kub2QwkVTM Q+YBUASywOYBztblG3VgKzoc34blpeJPrc13WzWn6lzjxj1ITpmKOCrp7PZScyXbEU/y C/PbodnwZoMO0BJVp79MbOz8N7FzlIeoH0OUUKU76aamKjwb7S3rHbAiXYp+J/85Utc9 WXrbNLQM/mD38lHOAHJ8+2JdD+iC/BHBPItWH6Cx+Q7JrTMao7jIyxEVxWMdDZ/bDvuT DMf/eq1jsk7wuKaBr+2l4K9HLesk5sHFEo4fXDNZmHb4A2HNicDsxYPjO2UC6pC7TvZJ JtkQ== X-Received: by 10.68.242.105 with SMTP id wp9mr7194197pbc.153.1375443899562; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.22.104]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s5sm6464706pbo.38.2013.08.02.04.44.57 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FB9BB7.1@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:44:55 +0200 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chelliot@pobox.com References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:45:03 -0000 On 08/02/13 12:06, Chris Elliott allegedly wrote: > We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. > > We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental > internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the > rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel. (1) THANK YOU AS ALWAYS (2) Is the hotel network open? I'm in the ISOC AC this afternoon. Scott From chelliot@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:48:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C0821E837C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.858 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.858 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.119, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7V7STx6zgh5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x236.google.com (mail-la0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4469321E836C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ea20so366760lab.13 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:47:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=RDUiXokfGabvdY87902r0p8Yx1AuHtTHcKmYMaH2wpk=; b=dwFGxpkxi66iPtQSRVwHygYXXmKqfstYGzHgFLS5s2mi4seelVX3qr1FofLb9gaq4e l9e2Z/IEkVFyGVRv5sS9lyviYaEcee68aAVHRVmzrzQ1i39kqfQ4koEgjf8Oj3JjaeJF EndGQ8Lr976qJvH7TfcVBNF5stZ5A1E7Mthim3BdQBDOQhSeCUogbh5iO9mfkLV3AavA SacTHUkQ7Z00D1EWff7tfG298Y0jJDwS/LsT5Sm0aQYBg1Zx6iIadxD8Mjf/Is2r9dKK VSouhE9p1Iu15LzOOB4FbL0MzSg3CnOmqskEO3vPuZgRPspoB1zJn3B7GVqHYvwYgy4C EiPQ== X-Received: by 10.112.130.6 with SMTP id oa6mr3338537lbb.62.1375444077801; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:47:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:47:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51FB9BB7.1@gmail.com> References: <51FB9BB7.1@gmail.com> From: Chris Elliott Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:47:37 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: uv-XyhzfTyF3Kzy64z7ohQ0pRWs Message-ID: To: Scott Brim Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3441eeaa77d504e2f5879d Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:48:00 -0000 --047d7b3441eeaa77d504e2f5879d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Scott Brim wrote: > On 08/02/13 12:06, Chris Elliott allegedly wrote: > > We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. > > > > We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental > > internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the > > rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel. > > (1) THANK YOU AS ALWAYS > You're welcome, as always! > (2) Is the hotel network open? I'm in the ISOC AC this afternoon. The hotel network will require authentication. It should be free for IETF attendees, as I understand it. Don't know if you're staying for the next month when they'd start making you pay, though. Chris. > Scott > -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --047d7b3441eeaa77d504e2f5879d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Scott Brim <scott.brim= @gmail.com> wrote:
On 08/02/13 12:06, Chris E= lliott allegedly wrote:
> We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon.
>
> We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinenta= l
> internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the=
> rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel.<= br>
(1) THANK YOU AS ALWAYS

You'r= e welcome, as always!=A0
=A0
(2) Is the hotel network open? =A0I'm in the ISOC AC this afternoon.

The hotel network will require authentication= . It should be free for IETF attendees, as I understand it. Don't know = if you're staying for the next month when they'd start making you p= ay, though.

Chris.
=A0
Scott



-- Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com=
--047d7b3441eeaa77d504e2f5879d-- From avezza@amsl.com Fri Aug 2 04:48:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A79B21E8353 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0EPSOXSm48Lh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [64.170.98.21]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A783F21E831F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c9a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF830A60AA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c9a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c9a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p8hVpSsqFlZ4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-23bb.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-23bb.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.35.187]) by c9a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 83168A60A1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Vezza Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:48:39 -0400 Message-Id: <03ACD444-002B-4BE6-BE9E-66838D02D9DA@amsl.com> To: 87attendees@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Subject: [87attendees] FOUND: A Laptop Computer X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:48:48 -0000 in the RTCWEB meeting in Potsdam 1 this morning. If you think it might = be yours, please come to Potsdam 4 to claim. Amy IETF Secretariat= From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Fri Aug 2 04:53:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955C911E82E8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:53:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.148 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.148 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRRlJaKccJdX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E479F11E825F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.56.115]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.85905483; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:51:32 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.158]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::492e:3fa1:c2ad:e04e%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:52:56 -0400 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHvywd2wGRxEGXi6lxr9tnPJmCAtQAgAAFfwCAACsTAA== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:52:56 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171BDE2AC3B@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523F936@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [68.87.16.248] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:53:11 -0000 +1 as well -- very good temperature for being productive rather than freezing cold AC all the time. :-) I know this is very individual but this one was spot on in my comfort zone. Jason On 8/2/13 1:18 PM, "Ted Lemon" wrote: >On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> I saw much fewer people sneezing/coughing, attending the meeting in >>high altitude rockclimber outfits, etc., than in your usual US meeting. > >+1 > >There have been some rooms that were uncomfortably warm at this IETF, but >at other IETFs there have been occasions where I was so cold I was >shivering, even though it was warm outside. There's likely not much we >can do about either thing, but I would say this venue has been less of a >problem than others I have attended. From scott.brim@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:58:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4E121E83A9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:58:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jOaVTABu1LU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x234.google.com (mail-pb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA0C21E808A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 04:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so602865pbc.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:58:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mYyreYx/A4uITlwg2gUmSsNDDZmXO2ZNiidX7whYtAo=; b=GorcKG1mrdY38/O+Dwg2lVClWj0sq3fsK8Q95EUa7zSbx/Pqwtww7EaXkkIY/JkCD3 EzO7/tZsWtLsLoOqqXG3R+5JoF28DYy0TVIWt80rySeBy5T7wqCEY2LyJjqQWt11Dxm7 8Lf/zPweEXIWISxOVafSwjNkTXLo+gkEMrnRdf/ImKOFFN6dqCYKKcbCRl4kL3/nunah sIfK0iDWIKwcOK2+sEeT62cr7XOoaLVVoHDT5zsidjrrd6oWzDiupS7tqiqKw7/mzZZG oDiuLVc6XtkfYw+mcH8S663HdwGzsSFk8Hdt/EHoBsOi/vhQByizsZApqbA9rD9W+8G4 Ge0A== X-Received: by 10.66.228.38 with SMTP id sf6mr10140304pac.21.1375444684999; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.22.104]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nj9sm9907645pbc.13.2013.08.02.04.58.02 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FB9EC8.6020503@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:58:00 +0200 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christer Holmberg References: <81C5F3D2-5831-490A-B5B2-8A31643337F7@tzi.org> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AE@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C4198AE@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Carsten Bormann , Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 11:58:21 -0000 On 08/02/13 13:26, Christer Holmberg allegedly wrote: > In my PERSONAL opinion, the room temperature has been perfect in Berlin. Yes, we were fortunate that the outside temperature was moderate. From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 05:01:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D470811E8321 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:01:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <2Ap+bOJr1NEp> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.305 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.305 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.294, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Ap+bOJr1NEp for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2ABC11E8319 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:01:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375444884; x=1406980884; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=JIjJyYIrSq+GnVNsIqt3Tl3GVCfRAUUc30ujDdO1vTQ=; b=Gxw79bDZ+DBAuejmc24ykZEbRKFDmRa94qwVlumT73Z7/vRY7Id9gc2p xYMyDEdA49rCmL4GG4KrxXYRCNbizAIdoW4wPtqT6U0V1vdQPySi5Zv9m +h6NvhVwNYqBf7u9gqwW6zxGirMc3eaARM1M+ohpF/Fe3p1W1b/SEyBfN A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66231607" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 05:01:24 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="87831645" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 05:01:24 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.17]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72C1Ne8000612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:01:24 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,800,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="524429885" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 05:01:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <51FB96A3.6050608@sidn.nl> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:00:30 -0700 To: Mary Barnes , "Marco Davids (SIDN)" From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:01:30 -0000 At 6:28 AM -0500 8/2/13, Mary Barnes wrote: > I don't know at all what you mean that turning my AC lower would > help at all? Perhaps you meant to raise my A/C? This is a long-standing area of confusion/ambiguity regarding AC: some people say "lower" to mean reduced AC output, hence higher temperatures, while others say "lower" to mean lower temperatures, hence higher AC output. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Farmer Bill Dies in House --Newspaper headline From scott.brim@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 05:09:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541FE21F9C76 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7QrTjY6d5Cg for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x231.google.com (mail-pb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B88311E82BE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id xb4so611192pbc.36 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:09:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RAIisdkF7z4GRFs/qV2mHWIRPaRY3QHxrXrozJfVYlw=; b=ezq94ARu0I/HL0xNwQ9RXyI5Gb7Wh5btbFSKRh6C8vr4KLb3+9MHDnAP52gp+9E+6B DUef62ImhF7zHtOlG9ASMGMiArYq/SMLvGEamZMjv9iqZM3YRYQKo830xfAPZPP6D+tv OlWK8JTme7fs4UiXJI3k41gOpNLwqHvMZrP4GXXWjz6c3u/u6WKqJVnBgFeJZP+qISzQ aIzP4aCHBGivvmAVCmS3l+OC8JS2sT2XmvWbbVUTUVZ+cehjuhTxhGhbVmlGl9KVi3d5 cknnlbkUVNZwzkE79ao8wa9b89PrGZDT6510KE+NtnO2IbBYh8V+kQT7l7rKiMd9hD2L KezQ== X-Received: by 10.68.143.131 with SMTP id se3mr3249812pbb.39.1375445376497; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.22.104]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ot4sm10168041pac.17.2013.08.02.05.09.34 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:09:32 +0200 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Kyzivat References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:09:42 -0000 On 08/02/13 13:34, Paul Kyzivat allegedly wrote: > Also, while I can think of uses for the QR code, helping note takers > identify the person at the mic is not one of them, unless we put a > scanner at the mic, send the result out automatically on jabber, and > have the (non-jabber) note taker monitor jabber to get the names. > > The badge is not helpful to the note taker unless the note taker is very > close to (all the) mics. And even then it often isn't, because there is > a low probability that the badge will be facing the note taker. Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges with difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue because they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. From scott.brim@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 05:10:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128D011E8325 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yVhlUcRKPEhl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F9611E82BE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id kp13so602577pab.7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:10:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wAryXkZ8rwDTkDaTzLW5FIWdfjIcR+TW4RJG6oUYwtg=; b=TMESQeSmpKRCpUUcsgrC6K3Dzln2k19BXhK3Mp9aormpDgAy/LU9m+xof2HeknoJ7C s5UZ5Ix8i9xCZ6yc1dusQ4k+xZGU9RJPUlvlysWW3ulPj9Nq7D1x1CSX3pZIKLjMOPEt twDPZluTwvv5s3xlcN8hmeDVzPYnSMwCbiHUMYJpzBEARQW2YqaMfm/MQtqkRSDjl5NG VSuDByX/162J4VTQFnCBLikjN+0/2wLK55qmzw3IulDkOaFqVduB0n/Q1RV4fNppoS3M 38+J+IrZQWO7WJVmixhnEVWBOgONxaTU9eMC5iUpAnXaoBlPx4b/q1Sn/bQCD1ZYQtRk K13A== X-Received: by 10.66.232.167 with SMTP id tp7mr10042406pac.15.1375445455222; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1668.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.22.104]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nv6sm9987598pbc.6.2013.08.02.05.10.52 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FBA1CB.7070104@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:10:51 +0200 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CJ Aronson References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:10:56 -0000 On 08/02/13 12:31, CJ Aronson allegedly wrote: > Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to Berlin and had to take > off our shoes. We flew SFO - LHR - Berlin. Everyone in our line had > to take off our shoes. LHR is special. From charliep@computer.org Fri Aug 2 05:12:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6086111E8360 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fq0SJA3KBQQT for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620DB11E8356 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.16.71] by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1V5EDp-0000Ib-5O; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 08:12:41 -0400 Message-ID: <51FBA22B.5080703@computer.org> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:12:27 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Brim References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net><51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com><28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org><51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net><51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com><51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad861696337389e727a9d0fa8c41887be797350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 130.129.16.71 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:12:54 -0000 This is a great idea. At least until after the social when people start exchanging name tags. Regards, Charlie P. On 8/2/2013 5:09 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > On 08/02/13 13:34, Paul Kyzivat allegedly wrote: >> Also, while I can think of uses for the QR code, helping note takers >> identify the person at the mic is not one of them, unless we put a >> scanner at the mic, send the result out automatically on jabber, and >> have the (non-jabber) note taker monitor jabber to get the names. >> >> The badge is not helpful to the note taker unless the note taker is very >> close to (all the) mics. And even then it often isn't, because there is >> a low probability that the badge will be facing the note taker. > Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges with > difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the > speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue because > they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > -- Regards, Charlie P. From eckert@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 05:16:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8C211E82ED for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:16:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5RA67Fu9AYL0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D152411E8313 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:16:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4671; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375445785; x=1376655385; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:reply-to:mime-version; bh=x78N0qQZenHbo3myYbILQCBMxgEAYczrH19M8Jpwelw=; b=iOYXIKIpcEaNVj4IlmqIdfhoMihPAYLd9DIGixrENGAUmiEoXM5/dyi6 Dnrl0ZKgNSwywiKw17ma4uKYDJ1T8pIGEdygutLMORGpciRWlIsC4SmC0 WuvvDWNeTpcA566+TrQ1HvhvRqzrBBRy8tVWRVwmQJeEOQ/5flQ2lv6br A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjwFAKSh+1GtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABQCoJCRDW/IoEcFnSCJAEBAQQBAQEqQQsQAgEIBBQJJQ8YCw4XAgQBDQWIEAy5EQSOVoE+BAeEDQOXX5FOgxc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367971200"; d="scan'208,217";a="242691197" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 12:16:24 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72CGOLw022933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:16:24 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.5.80]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:16:24 -0500 From: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" To: "Charles E. Perkins" , Scott Brim Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Jabber scribing Thread-Index: AQHOjDCfw8dal+U09US6TUwlG6NUFpl7nv4AgAABKgCAAAd6AIAAAKUAgAAB+4CAAEqqgIAABDkAgAAE1QCAAAXCAIAAAl6AgAABFgCABhb3gIAAAemAgAAD2ICAAAnTAIAAANCA//+tSQs= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t.1375445649007@email.android.com> References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net><51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com><28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org><51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net><51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com><51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com>,<51FBA22B.5080703@computer.org> In-Reply-To: <51FBA22B.5080703@computer.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t1375445649007emailandroidcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Toerless Eckert \(eckert\)" List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:16:53 -0000 --_000_4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t1375445649007emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Qr code on tag, qr reader on mike, automatic mute if you dont hold the qr c= ode into the reader. I'd also love to know names of speakers better than th= e fast mumbling when they hit the mike. Typos =3D=3D Smartphone "Charles E. Perkins" wrote: This is a great idea. At least until after the social when people start exchanging name tags. Regards, Charlie P. On 8/2/2013 5:09 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > On 08/02/13 13:34, Paul Kyzivat allegedly wrote: >> Also, while I can think of uses for the QR code, helping note takers >> identify the person at the mic is not one of them, unless we put a >> scanner at the mic, send the result out automatically on jabber, and >> have the (non-jabber) note taker monitor jabber to get the names. >> >> The badge is not helpful to the note taker unless the note taker is very >> close to (all the) mics. And even then it often isn't, because there is >> a low probability that the badge will be facing the note taker. > Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges with > difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the > speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue because > they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > -- Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --_000_4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t1375445649007emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Qr code on tag, qr reader on mike, automatic mute if you dont hold the= qr code into the reader. I'd also love to know names of speakers better th= an the fast mumbling when they hit the mike.




Typos =3D=3D Smartphone

"Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org> wrote:
This is a great idea.  At least until after t= he social when people start
exchanging name tags.

Regards,
Charlie P.

On 8/2/2013 5:09 AM, Scott Brim wrote:
> On 08/02/13 13:34, Paul Kyzivat allegedly wrote:
>> Also, while I can think of uses for the QR code, helping note take= rs
>> identify the person at the mic is not one of them, unless we put a=
>> scanner at the mic, send the result out automatically on jabber, a= nd
>> have the (non-jabber) note taker monitor jabber to get the names.<= br> >>
>> The badge is not helpful to the note taker unless the note taker i= s very
>> close to (all the) mics. And even then it often isn't, because the= re is
>> a low probability that the badge will be facing the note taker. > Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges wi= th
> difficult names :-).  I would welcome a scanner that showed the > speaker's name to the room somehow.  Anonymity is not an issue be= cause
> they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway.
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>


--
Regards,
Charlie P.

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
 --_000_4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t1375445649007emailandroidcom_-- From paitken@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 05:23:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD68E11E81A5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:23:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aMQ1qp3rS3Ge for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBBD11E812C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:23:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=529; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375446204; x=1376655804; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BVhWZAYS3+xNbl7yv4kO01GnLLhyXeO3cbNk1YhtrvA=; b=dBYQkH2s2qA2OPuUyjCgoKHUN5VyFuJ3xTMc84TVK977f0bFHICWPPIq vXiLzeFirEmwkU81gH1Qn6crIHXt5nLAzCFDSc2HKS5WRs99GNaU5B5ua fVuf//FAKJrUl0FDmfzCq7TAY5E2ESPV3lAcFhhd+iQofVNoSRD8NXeVy 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjMFAEuj+1GQ/khN/2dsb2JhbABagwY2vDGCcIEcFnSCJAEBAQQ4QAEQCxgJFg8JAwIBAgFFBg0BBwEBiAy5JZAYB4QNA5dfhiSLKoMY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,729,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="16260215" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 12:23:22 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72CNKIr029823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:23:20 GMT Received: from [10.61.98.64] (dhcp-10-61-98-64.cisco.com [10.61.98.64]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r72CNJ7W017858; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:23:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FBA4B8.7060707@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:23:20 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Brim References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:23:38 -0000 On 02/08/13 13:09, Scott Brim wrote: > Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges > with difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the > speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue because > they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. As someone who has participated remotely many times, I'd welcome a badge scanner (NFC or RFID?) which shows that someone is standing at the mic so we don't inadvertently speak over one another. P. From ewb25@georgetown.edu Fri Aug 2 05:30:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DAE211E8293 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:30:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DFiiGKtJPAyf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com (mail-pa0-f46.google.com [209.85.220.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC47111E8146 for <87Attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id fa1so623946pad.19 for <87Attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=TfoY6N5oQanqHr79ot2cJp18eGA8ostRKMsTz9N+KcQ=; b=pRofGDN4fC3uLe+bSD88ClVWZT9pXCOiRH/1Ur6rimyM7d/HU1jdzC9Iud8UyLEl1h 2WpNR0mj27TJQ3kWDrU9UubtFKGvdzkbiTy5s9sRdsgRcUnoq6arQVFGhfYObGMkC7T7 5mgzr+fyZw4A2s9EhDUI2rldY35y12wmId3mvSOpGv7als5IZbUe5lz8ibrijajRouPn DhpdioE9h8xOakI7ULNtNZEdAyswNyh1paptrj81CC7pZT/A3nPdkZHf8RBo6AC4iS0O EbbudYoDlcCXnr6HoFU6yWZRnUtmK9UQhpazgPEPtfrkJVKMSQa/6nyhjru55c7yjyuI k0nQ== X-Received: by 10.66.218.226 with SMTP id pj2mr10166594pac.62.1375446615614; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::96:2417:60d6:64f8:32bd? ([2001:df8:0:96:2417:60d6:64f8:32bd]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm10332065pab.12.2013.08.02.05.30.12 for <87Attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 05:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A30DF806-7D00-43E9-B6BC-065D1295FE38"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: <2B883365-E37C-4DEA-9196-0D71E04EB8D8@georgetown.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:30:10 +0200 References: <7066C0C9-6505-4D1F-866E-421DA17CAB87@gmail.com> To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87Attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <7066C0C9-6505-4D1F-866E-421DA17CAB87@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkN+V0A9VSEgUVCyIcqNksfqdtGYr8mxav9CCbYrcsnAVxt6e4qDfzr0KAGPRKOM6qxeAYA Subject: Re: [87attendees] Ride to Tegel airport today X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:30:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A30DF806-7D00-43E9-B6BC-065D1295FE38 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B26F2778-0797-4F05-8E43-853E77444F2C" --Apple-Mail=_B26F2778-0797-4F05-8E43-853E77444F2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reminder, see: http://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/87departures On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: > I plan to leave intercontinental hotel at 1 pm and willing to share a = taxi. >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail=_B26F2778-0797-4F05-8E43-853E77444F2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii ht= tp://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/87departures

On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> = wrote:

I plan to leave intercontinental = hotel at 1 pm and willing to share a taxi.

Mahesh = Jethanandani
_______________________________________________
87attendees= mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

= = --Apple-Mail=_B26F2778-0797-4F05-8E43-853E77444F2C-- --Apple-Mail=_A30DF806-7D00-43E9-B6BC-065D1295FE38 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPXDCCBN0w ggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UECgwR Q29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0w NDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQx FzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsx ITAfBgNVBAsTGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbTE2MDQGA1UEAxMtVVROLVVTRVJGaXJz dC1DbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEVtYWlsMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEAsjmFpPJ9q0E7YkY3rs3BYHW8OWX5ShpHornMSMxqmNVNNRm5pELlzkniii8efNIx B8dOtINknS4p1aJkxIW9hVE1eaROaJB7HHqkkqgX8pgV8pPMyaQylbsMTzC9mKALi+VuG6JG+ni8 om+rWV6lL8/K2m2qL+usobNqqrcuZzWLeeEeaYji5kbNoKXqvgvOdjp6Dpvq/NonWz1zHyLmSGHG TPNpsaguG7bUMSAsvIKKjqQOpdeJQ/wWWq8dcdcRWdq6hw2v+vPhwvCkxWeM1tZUOt4KpLoDd7Nl yP0e03RiqhjKaJMeoYV+9Udly/hNVyh00jT/MLbu9mIwFIws6wIDAQABo4IBJzCCASMwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUoBEKIz6W8Qfs4q8p74Klf9AwpLQwHQYDVR0OBBYEFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59 MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggr BgEFBQcDBDARBgNVHSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwewYDVR0fBHQwcjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC5j b21vZG9jYS5jb20vQUFBQ2VydGlmaWNhdGVTZXJ2aWNlcy5jcmwwNqA0oDKGMGh0dHA6Ly9jcmwu Y29tb2RvLm5ldC9BQUFDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZVNlcnZpY2VzLmNybDARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAQYw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAJ2Vyzy4fqUJxB6/C8LHdo45PJTGEKpPDMngq4RdiVTgZTvzbRx8 NywlVF+WIfw3hJGdFdwUT4HPVB1rbEVgxy35l1FM+WbKPKCCjKbI8OLp1Er57D9Wyd12jMOCAU9s APMeGmF0BEcDqcZAV5G8ZSLFJ2dPV9tkWtmNH7qGL/QGrpxp7en0zykX2OBKnxogL5dMUbtGB8SK N04g4wkxaMeexIud6H4RvDJoEJYRmETYKlFgTYjrdDrfQwYyyDlWjDoRUtNBpEMD9O3vMyfbOeAU TibJ2PU54om4k123KSZB6rObroP8d3XK6Mq1/uJlSmM+RMTQw16Hc6mYHK9/FX8wggTqMIID0qAD AgECAhAnmj8Jxq/Gka/a6jcb76ZvMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkG A1UECBMCVVQxFzAVBgNVBAcTDlNhbHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNU IE5ldHdvcmsxITAfBgNVBAsTGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbTE2MDQGA1UEAxMtVVRO LVVTRVJGaXJzdC1DbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEVtYWlsMB4XDTExMDIxMTAwMDAw MFoXDTIwMDUzMDEwNDgzOFowZDELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxEjAQBgNVBAoTCUludGVybmV0MjERMA8G A1UECxMISW5Db21tb24xLjAsBgNVBAMTJUluQ29tbW9uIFN0YW5kYXJkIEFzc3VyYW5jZSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDT4BUCe/l2gun+kZbz8B4haLUN YTC+CZdm3R0jp/sfhng65pdqx8Gkf4lNs55ZszgLHzkiawIoEr8pltE19JUqbAaYHBlkXKZ+RW4g a5G4dA88U8iDGWsRo8cshQUeh9TLoAgFBi5miT14p4OTVLfYF+rT7n1m1DTeicoZ/TfK0IPeUWjY WvV0692CAlr6IM6qz0Ar08iehemBM5vW8U+RRdmNMykcXQeahen/yRKyTAxCKu0w9NfcmbXPC4Dq ed6nI2KftemWotayGkXQ2BMdknn0hIE9thWP7m8sGsbsXayTjwtHTTo7CdXeBiI6EZWQb057H3Iu J5EzPohXwr8JAgMBAAGjggFLMIIBRzAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBSJgmd9xJ0mcABLtFBIfN49rgRufTAd BgNVHQ4EFgQU6Ne9lqrd0AjvoTOeXlmYPBK3m5EwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEGMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQI MAYBAf8CAQAwEQYDVR0gBAowCDAGBgRVHSAAMFgGA1UdHwRRME8wTaBLoEmGR2h0dHA6Ly9jcmwu dXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbS9VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kRW1haWwu Y3JsMHQGCCsGAQUFBwEBBGgwZjA9BggrBgEFBQcwAoYxaHR0cDovL2NydC51c2VydHJ1c3QuY29t L1VUTkFkZFRydXN0Q2xpZW50X0NBLmNydDAlBggrBgEFBQcwAYYZaHR0cDovL29jc3AudXNlcnRy dXN0LmNvbTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEADu224DifOmiiAcHwhOUm7vyB0teMyRskQ6DJsYXm n+TgKtFE3vKgcK2IGChIlhMSR0n5yjmjV9fNU4VNt/cvH9mrU3ppB07IQr/i7F47e/Q+sqRJlpEW e/lPal5CcjHR00OhOQWJPsu10ek+EcaEdc41v/Ut6KKr9aQBTnAcJmWrFsO9MuYpEC9rarJI1nAG BvUo6FR+zBDFaa4R6QXrOzjBYlrQHhjpXE1T+PUq4d2SNYT6JY8fxyNZGviiJaVWYuLeOKzU3zNX YgE4KlEqO0y5R7Bx6ckhwWGO0mOtukkrIgCsNjUQSA5ewewdsdtiXpMD6uVQSO9RqyGK+2DFwjCC BYkwggRxoAMCAQICEG/EdTdcId4gfcFcv1XIhbUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwZDELMAkGA1UEBhMC VVMxEjAQBgNVBAoTCUludGVybmV0MjERMA8GA1UECxMISW5Db21tb24xLjAsBgNVBAMTJUluQ29t bW9uIFN0YW5kYXJkIEFzc3VyYW5jZSBDbGllbnQgQ0EwHhcNMTIwNzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTcwNzE3 MjM1OTU5WjCBtzEOMAwGA1UEERMFMjAwNTcxHjAcBgNVBAoTFUdlb3JnZXRvd24gVW5pdmVyc2l0 eTEbMBkGA1UECRMSMzd0aCBhbmQgTyBTdHJlZXRzMQswCQYDVQQIEwJEQzETMBEGA1UEBxMKV2Fz aGluZ3RvbjELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFDASBgNVBAMTC0VyaWMgQnVyZ2VyMSMwIQYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhRld2IyNUBnZW9yZ2V0b3duLmVkdTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAI4r 5s3ITRGme+0QWr5886D3ePvzlyVmfCCIhHLQjh9ipaTcxdZxKkL7QKuwVCfM5wcfwUNPnhMFFUtM pscSBjvhhLgRKCveFgGtysxRK+Od1vB+45JlTtRFITaGku0B0AOQIAnFAW6/u+7+7vK+Ia1vG0M/ sZWuYUfjtNoHj32vou0mx5Nmdhla8jlfbedA8eQVYVCaMUUyN5bQFTjLdaXOF4ukbzQb39NIiBy8 EJEUB2VvRPj+a7ts8Ewb8n0i7PuhYIbvhM8AHqwXODLJr8K1XCB0JtXUToipjJ81EE6ONGNG40ws V4cvFQMQt0QrF69fHlt60RoN7w6Rok9c2+0CAwEAAaOCAeEwggHdMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFOjXvZaq 3dAI76Eznl5ZmDwSt5uRMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSdDwh2bEEjfTRGwjQkTZKPBufsRzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8E BAMCBaAwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADAdBgNVHSUEFjAUBggrBgEFBQcDBAYIKwYBBQUHAwIwagYDVR0g BGMwYTBfBg0rBgEEAa4jAQQDAwABME4wTAYIKwYBBQUHAgEWQGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmluY29tbW9u Lm9yZy9jZXJ0L3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvY3BzX3N0YW5kYXJkX2NsaWVudC5wZGYwTgYDVR0fBEcwRTBD oEGgP4Y9aHR0cDovL2NybC5pbmNvbW1vbi5vcmcvSW5Db21tb25TdGFuZGFyZEFzc3VyYW5jZUNs aWVudENBLmNybDCBgAYIKwYBBQUHAQEEdDByMEoGCCsGAQUFBzAChj5odHRwOi8vY2VydC5pbmNv bW1vbi5vcmcvSW5Db21tb25TdGFuZGFyZEFzc3VyYW5jZUNsaWVudENBLmNydDAkBggrBgEFBQcw AYYYaHR0cDovL29jc3AuaW5jb21tb24ub3JnMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaBFGV3YjI1QGdlb3JnZXRvd24u ZWR1MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQC3DGB621t2+9+/vyuIHknq2liWGYoMw/j+MXhHftKj1aCx 84mC03ZxLSrObxf/S5yTV9zIDFuP0VKQd6440h9FI/ZpSpmKaJqPUnKJCCtdNLGlb3QX0OEPJUWN jLZVloYBLUFqy1vmeyH+nXh4rAvampPXWWVXf+9LA/7+o66cKADGdZQfZwoNVa3KSkyHL3mw79WO XDgONAqMiDm+Tw0IEocbcTl4gG69Rzagblh0TSSSg11gT63I3t9IU8GLKp+vbePG0Kyu34sah7aq kqYE0+Q6sShneZCnIjXZjPbGlaPlAhAswtFRc1agXRs//Lc88QmhB3d8plJ2MYVILWRxMYIDFjCC AxICAQEweDBkMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzESMBAGA1UEChMJSW50ZXJuZXQyMREwDwYDVQQLEwhJbkNv bW1vbjEuMCwGA1UEAxMlSW5Db21tb24gU3RhbmRhcmQgQXNzdXJhbmNlIENsaWVudCBDQQIQb8R1 N1wh3iB9wVy/VciFtTAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBczAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwG CSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMzA4MDIxMjMwMTFaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTvDOYWQuKttozEDHy0 rXpow0x1qDCBhwYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXoweDBkMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzESMBAGA1UEChMJSW50ZXJu ZXQyMREwDwYDVQQLEwhJbkNvbW1vbjEuMCwGA1UEAxMlSW5Db21tb24gU3RhbmRhcmQgQXNzdXJh bmNlIENsaWVudCBDQQIQb8R1N1wh3iB9wVy/VciFtTCBiQYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxeqB4MGQxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlVTMRIwEAYDVQQKEwlJbnRlcm5ldDIxETAPBgNVBAsTCEluQ29tbW9uMS4wLAYDVQQD EyVJbkNvbW1vbiBTdGFuZGFyZCBBc3N1cmFuY2UgQ2xpZW50IENBAhBvxHU3XCHeIH3BXL9VyIW1 MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAHiL6hHh/s+g5bG21N8xZiD8bAEPZy+d72rVa3G64ErN8JvZFMVm HyxqdYxQPX2Bo1CkX4w11627up0qTJzZlBKOkMzUpw9E94mTvrNNHWkfBfLMd5JJM09RFtKevqZd m9cAIA8Po7wRhq97d0Z4i7CdiVw/GRwSSb3v+T2uALWtmxAb+qcmMFZjY8Lq+uDkh5/cZEr8mFV5 v0xpRtoVNmvgzjDseIsOQgjRpOpA0U5/BFVxoYUqorQ0ynnwb85Nyb6Nyhq/oxT5xhzm0LPIhGfy gPlUUpHxG1SezmqLnuniY1n+/idrhE4RmqpjVKgtxuIEUZ766ZcR1m2ssixQrDkAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_A30DF806-7D00-43E9-B6BC-065D1295FE38-- From lufang@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 05:31:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F2111E8321 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.478 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.478 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69ExZoBmGtGf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C1511E82B8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:31:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5140; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375446672; x=1376656272; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=BJGhmc4fU7YGx4t2cZggNbS8LZ1tgB9Db9qJkNnJRzs=; b=PiFPybNFxuEyqTI2BhML+cOY83r7A1o4tPhEarsW1+AyJ07rndI1pAv+ kCuHgYMExeHNT4YgOxVwzo+QFGeCSqxbkXcrvP2/uFRazsrYwQXXRoGZk QkbEJsXaxsOO4nsCDlIR9McD4smbLepXfm6Aivto3jUaYldwYrfA9d9Xo 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aj4FAO6k+1GtJXG//2dsb2JhbABaDoI0RDVQvlKBHBZ0giQBAQEEAQEBawsSAQgEDQMBAgsdKAYLFAkIAgQBDQUIh3YDDwywNA2IWgSNJ4JAIA0EB4MZdAOVdo4QhSeCWT6CKg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367971200"; d="scan'208,217";a="242720657" Received: from rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com ([173.37.113.191]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 12:31:03 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72CV38c002974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:31:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.202]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:31:03 -0500 From: "Luyuan Fang (lufang)" To: Hui Deng , Tim Chown Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOj3QbKLJt9XU+pEmBrIB+ONLIdZmCICkAgAAukQA= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:31:02 +0000 Message-ID: <0DB8F45437AB844CBB5102F807A0AD931047DA58@xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 x-originating-ip: [10.61.99.7] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0DB8F45437AB844CBB5102F807A0AD931047DA58xmbrcdx03ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:31:25 -0000 --_000_0DB8F45437AB844CBB5102F807A0AD931047DA58xmbrcdx03ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Absolutely. I did not read the temperature discussion from others. But I much prefer th= is way than the energy wasting very cold rooms as we normally have in US. Anyway, it is a wonderful experience in all aspects. Thanks to all who contributed to the success of the Berlin meeting! Luyuan From: Hui Deng > Date: Friday, August 2, 2013 1:44 PM To: Tim Chown > Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attend= ees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin Very good example of protection of environment, applaud -Hui 2013/8/2 Tim Chown > Hi, Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue. Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), lots = of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the hotel ba= r. Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent biergarten, and othe= r places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube ride = away. And very friendly and helpful staff in the hotel. A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n Bites= . Thanks to everyone who made it possible :) Tim _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --_000_0DB8F45437AB844CBB5102F807A0AD931047DA58xmbrcdx03ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9078C41A58FB784DBE5F629142DB9F43@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Absolutely.
I did not read the temperature discussion from others. But I much pref= er this way than the energy wasting very cold rooms as we normally have in = US.
Anyway, it is a wonderful experience in all aspects.
Thanks to all who contributed to the success of the Berlin meeting!&nb= sp;

Luyuan

From: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, August 2, 2013 1:44 P= M
To: Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank yo= u Berlin

Very good example of protection of environment, applaud
 
-Hui


2013/8/2 Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk&g= t;
Hi,

Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue.

Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), lots = of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the hotel ba= r.  Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent biergarten, and= other places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube ride away.  And very friendly and help= ful staff in the hotel.

A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n Bites= .

Thanks to everyone who made it possible :)

Tim
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

 --_000_0DB8F45437AB844CBB5102F807A0AD931047DA58xmbrcdx03ciscoc_-- From aservin@lacnic.net Fri Aug 2 05:37:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8B521E80EA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:37:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.926, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TRU5kiax1750 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E02921E80B0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 05:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.83.3] (unknown [130.129.83.3]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EC8308454 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:36:19 -0300 (UYT) From: Arturo Servin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) Message-Id: <84730B19-AB86-4761-831E-2D3C49E8CC64@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:36:17 +0200 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: [87attendees] Headphones case X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:37:26 -0000 I lost my headphones case with my headphones inside. I left my backpack open= and they may have felt. Black, round, small case. The headphones cable is red.=20 Thanks and safe travel back home. as Sent from mobile device. Excuse typoos and brev.= From abdelkader.lahmadi@loria.fr Fri Aug 2 06:13:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871E621E80D2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QeZR4lCFW8JL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7A811E82B9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="28298643" Received: from zmbs3.inria.fr ([128.93.142.16]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 15:13:26 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:13:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Abdelkader Lahmadi To: 87attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <2088586958.7044140.1375449206937.JavaMail.root@loria.fr> In-Reply-To: <77426B543150464AA3F30DF1A91365DE53C54D0C@ESV4-MBX01.linkedin.biz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [88.163.251.98] X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.4_GA_2900 (ZimbraWebClient - GC28 (Mac)/7.2.4_GA_2900) Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:13:40 -0000 Sunday, July 28, I attended the tutorial of Brian Trammell and Benoit Clais= e about "Applying IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) to Network Measurement= and Management": http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/slides/slides-87-edu-i= pfix-1.pdf They presented a nice demo of using IPFIX to measure and export the tempera= ture of the meeting room using a raspberry Pi. So, it will be nice to provi= de a web service for the next IETF meetings where attendees will be able to= know about the temperature of meeting rooms.=20 /Abdelkader LAHMADI ----- Mail original ----- > De: "Franck Martin" > =C0: 87attendees@ietf.org > Envoy=E9: Vendredi 2 Ao=FBt 2013 12:50:55 > Objet: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? >=20 > Fun: How the IETF would fix global warming? By putting more air > conditioners >=20 > The first days were hot, especially in the hotel I stayed, there is a > limit on hotness and jet lag. I found the conference about the right > temperature, I could stay in t-shirt inside and outside. Usually I > need to carry a pullover or jacket, otherwise I get sick by the > difference of temperature. So this was, hmm, refreshing, compared to > other hotels where it always seem you are in north pole. >=20 > On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes > wrote: >=20 > > Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in > > Potsdam 1 right now and uncomfortably warm. I'll be in another > > meeting room this afternoon that was sweltering on Sunday. I had > > to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room > > to wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I > > might pass out. I was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and a very > > light, shorter skirt and sandles. > >=20 > > We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the > > mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layers. If you are > > too hot, you can only take off so many layers. The problem with > > it being hot inside and outside is that if you get overheated, > > there isn't a place to cool down. Being from Texas, I know hot > > and have a high tolerance for being out in 100+ weather - when I > > get too hot, I go inside my air conditioned house. I don't have > > that option here. > >=20 > > As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier > > than too warm. As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly, > > I always have a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when > > it's cold. Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack > > that will cool someone down. Although, I do have paper, which I > > used on Sunday as well to try to cool down. > >=20 > > Mary > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Aug 2 06:17:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674AE21E80D8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:17:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.427 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.427 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NkgiNujucP97 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586AF21E80FA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che-vpn-cluster-1-1.cisco.com (unknown [198.135.0.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEDB6E8324; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <51FBB161.5010502@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:17:21 +0200 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> <51FBA4B8.7060707@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FBA4B8.7060707@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Scott Brim , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:17:31 -0000 On 8/2/13 2:23 PM, Paul Aitken wrote: > On 02/08/13 13:09, Scott Brim wrote: >> Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges >> with difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the >> speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue because >> they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. > > As someone who has participated remotely many times, I'd welcome a badge > scanner (NFC or RFID?) which shows that someone is standing at the mic > so we don't inadvertently speak over one another. We've had such a scanner in the past (Hiroshima, perhaps). It could be brought back... Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ From joelja@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 06:19:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F98321F9C7D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P6-0HPRrVRX0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C1B21F9BD3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id v10so653134pde.24 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:19:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fuQsdD08cBB0G+7TIOT1Eq+N4TzEMNx9AhH2lYh5KTM=; b=TQn4ilmYLt2x4k+xF9TlTNgO42A9RVphxwI4DhQqT9vpMT0iG3qFmwQEd4n30Xk+gN 3BKaT+uHqepfnmhVU2zQaTYDD4X+h7AEwNscaUG756zuqgXpgD+COw2PdNuGKgG2eTtf avhR4bwy/6xlvYs7WjEbHT/U64vkuWPvtXLOtwAFvQmklQhMZjFIaSoGi19Ke1RTMLIR CRAioXrPe40KMYxJLi0QydQbaJgsy5ycqHOi7grc0Cvk5nIASEU6ol5n/AjIoUIXMTQ7 Etb/BxDWG0SwTG/a1f3N3d5Vi2vZ5Li2j2OWf79+z+ylOHTTNvWQa8F95Zcv0pAL1FR+ YlQA== X-Received: by 10.68.100.98 with SMTP id ex2mr7904324pbb.36.1375449549289; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-6518.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.101.24]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id yg1sm7978409pbb.1.2013.08.02.06.19.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FBB1C9.3050302@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:19:05 +0200 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Abdelkader Lahmadi , 87attendees@ietf.org References: <2088586958.7044140.1375449206937.JavaMail.root@loria.fr> In-Reply-To: <2088586958.7044140.1375449206937.JavaMail.root@loria.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:19:10 -0000 On 8/2/13 3:13 PM, Abdelkader Lahmadi wrote: > Sunday, July 28, I attended the tutorial of Brian Trammell and Benoit Claise about "Applying IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) to Network Measurement and Management": http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/slides/slides-87-edu-ipfix-1.pdf > > They presented a nice demo of using IPFIX to measure and export the temperature of the meeting room using a raspberry Pi. So, it will be nice to provide a web service for the next IETF meetings where attendees will be able to know about the temperature of meeting rooms. we had ipv6 enabled thermometers in IETF 55 atlanta. > /Abdelkader LAHMADI > ----- Mail original ----- >> De: "Franck Martin" >> À: 87attendees@ietf.org >> Envoyé: Vendredi 2 Août 2013 12:50:55 >> Objet: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? >> >> Fun: How the IETF would fix global warming? By putting more air >> conditioners >> >> The first days were hot, especially in the hotel I stayed, there is a >> limit on hotness and jet lag. I found the conference about the right >> temperature, I could stay in t-shirt inside and outside. Usually I >> need to carry a pullover or jacket, otherwise I get sick by the >> difference of temperature. So this was, hmm, refreshing, compared to >> other hotels where it always seem you are in north pole. >> >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes >> wrote: >> >>> Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in >>> Potsdam 1 right now and uncomfortably warm. I'll be in another >>> meeting room this afternoon that was sweltering on Sunday. I had >>> to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room >>> to wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I >>> might pass out. I was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and a very >>> light, shorter skirt and sandles. >>> >>> We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the >>> mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layers. If you are >>> too hot, you can only take off so many layers. The problem with >>> it being hot inside and outside is that if you get overheated, >>> there isn't a place to cool down. Being from Texas, I know hot >>> and have a high tolerance for being out in 100+ weather - when I >>> get too hot, I go inside my air conditioned house. I don't have >>> that option here. >>> >>> As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier >>> than too warm. As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly, >>> I always have a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when >>> it's cold. Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack >>> that will cool someone down. Although, I do have paper, which I >>> used on Sunday as well to try to cool down. >>> >>> Mary >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From mamille2@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 06:25:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0F921E8087 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tYqaPQa0I3IH for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A23221E8120 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:24:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7010; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375449845; x=1376659445; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=nEK0lqcWRTUpKWdr4yhCfEzMMV0AGfG9UMAT2qLO0b4=; b=VHJbOk1ionP6BCva6dNTvRJbuW0jM7Q6zIyxbCkNhjnDRFJLEWJ28O18 kmiVisSCy95aMEvX7btgDYAmO3dySNJH5ucDco3oRKs3NpcIdBONtW8Rq yEY+q2MAGLSzj1E28Oh1irgJoldCS2fHGJ9JkSvYzwEnneqTgsrkDF2O3 I=; X-Files: smime.p7s : 4136 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlcFAIey+1GtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABagwaBBYJJvAmBHBZ0giQBAQEDAX4LAgEIGAokAjAlAgQTCAaHfAa5No9nFiKDGXQDkBKBLZdugxeCKg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367971200"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="242757757" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 13:24:04 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72DO4JK008300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:24:04 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.159]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:24:04 -0500 From: "Matt Miller (mamille2)" To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Jabber scribing Thread-Index: AQHOj3FbobPuFfRXwUet0byDWPMBspmCGY6AgAAD2YCAAAnSAIAAA9sAgAAPGICAAAHeAA== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:24:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net> <51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com> <28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org> <51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net> <51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com> <51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com> <51FBA4B8.7060707@cisco.com> <51FBB161.5010502@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <51FBB161.5010502@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.85.50] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9A467AF0-F979-457A-BC47-BFFA07758117"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:25:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9A467AF0-F979-457A-BC47-BFFA07758117 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 2, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 8/2/13 2:23 PM, Paul Aitken wrote: >> On 02/08/13 13:09, Scott Brim wrote: >>> Just now I was scuttling back and forth between mics to read badges >>> with difficult names :-). I would welcome a scanner that showed the >>> speaker's name to the room somehow. Anonymity is not an issue = because >>> they are supposed to be announcing their names clearly anyway. >>=20 >> As someone who has participated remotely many times, I'd welcome a = badge >> scanner (NFC or RFID?) which shows that someone is standing at the = mic >> so we don't inadvertently speak over one another. >=20 > We've had such a scanner in the past (Hiroshima, perhaps). It could be > brought back... >=20 As someone with a hearing impairment, I would really appreciate such an = apparatus. - m&m Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com > Cisco Systems, Inc. --Apple-Mail=_9A467AF0-F979-457A-BC47-BFFA07758117 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMezCCBjQw ggQcoAMCAQICAR4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0 Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAn BgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3MTAyNDIxMDE1NVoX DTE3MTAyNDIxMDE1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSsw KQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFy dENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMcJg8zOLdgasSmkLhOrlr6KMoOMpohBllVHrdRvEg/q6r8jR+EK 75xCGhR8ToREoqe7zM9/UnC6TS2y9UKTpT1v7RSMzR0t6ndl0TWBuUr/UXBhPk+Kmy7bI4yW4urC +y7P3/1/X7U8ocb8VpH/Clt+4iq7nirMcNh6qJR+xjOhV+VHzQMALuGYn5KZmc1NbJQYclsGkDxD z2UbFqE2+6vIZoL+jb9x4Pa5gNf1TwSDkOkikZB1xtB4ZqtXThaABSONdfmv/Z1pua3FYxnCFmdr /+N2JLKutIxMYqQOJebr/f/h5t95m4JgrM3Y/w7YX9d7YAL9jvN4SydHsU6n65cCAwEAAaOCAa0w ggGpMA8GA1UdEwEB/wQFMAMBAf8wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRTcu2SnODaywFc fH6WNU7y1LhRgjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBROC+8apEBbpRdphzDKNGhD0EGu8jBmBggrBgEFBQcBAQRa MFgwJwYIKwYBBQUHMAGGG2h0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jYTAtBggrBgEFBQcwAoYh aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc2ZzY2EuY3J0MFsGA1UdHwRUMFIwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNybDAnoCWgI4YhaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFydHNzbC5j b20vc2ZzY2EuY3JsMIGABgNVHSAEeTB3MHUGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIBMGYwLgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWImh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3BvbGljeS5wZGYwNAYIKwYBBQUHAgEWKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2ludGVybWVkaWF0ZS5wZGYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAAqDCH14qywG XLhjjF6uHLkjd02hcdh9hrw+VUsv+q1eeQWB21jWj3kJ96AUlPCoEGZ/ynJNScWy6QMVQjbbMXlt UfO4n4bGGdKo3awPWp61tjAFgraLJgDk+DsSvUD6EowjMTNx25GQgyYJ5RPIzKKR9tQW8gGK+2+R HxkUCTbYFnL6kl8Ch507rUdPPipJ9CgJFws3kDS3gOS5WFMxcjO5DwKfKSETEPrHh7p5shuuNktv sv6hxHTLhiMKX893gxdT3XLS9OKmCv87vkINQcNEcIIoFWbP9HORz9v3vQwR4e3ksLc2JZOAFK+s sS5XMEoznzpihEP0PLc4dCBYjbvSD7kxgDwZ+Aj8Q9PkbvE9sIPP7ON0fz095HdThKjiVJe6vofq +n6b1NBc8XdrQvBmunwxD5nvtTW4vtN6VY7mUCmxsCieuoBJ9OlqmsVWQvifIYf40dJPZkk9YgGT zWLpXDSfLSplbY2LL9C9U0ptvjcDjefLTvqSFc7tw1sEhF0n/qpA2r0GpvkLRDmcSwVyPvmjFBGq Up/pNy8ZuPGQmHwFi2/14+xeSUDG2bwnsYJQG2EdJCB6luQ57GEnTA/yKZSTKI8dDQa8Sd3zfXb1 9mOgSF0bBdXbuKhEpuP9wirslFe6fQ1t5j5R0xi72MZ8ikMu1RQZKCyDbMwazlHiMIIGPzCCBSeg AwIBAgIDBoRIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRD b20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYG A1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0EwHhcN MTMwNDMwMjE1NDQyWhcNMTQwNTAyMDUzOTA0WjBbMRkwFwYDVQQNExBiN2F6NndOY0t0R3JtMEpF MRswGQYDVQQDDBJtYW1pbGxlMkBjaXNjby5jb20xITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEm1hbWlsbGUyQGNp c2NvLmNvbTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAJbKBMsG+9UFTx9uq/bhhXgu vJvO8z7cwKaqqwZhVf5z/kHFyCNijtmTOE+YXjA8mWR4aoBwB5SvGypI/cJUofJ+AlBTC4g+RMx/ K0Ab4/jQqTQz9CDzMOB+Wm+rt8ZJ7A8ZzOJmNDAsf/VvB8l2A1SQz1UsAixgH16NTr8SlblAXEKk 4hwpCudUiNjjQokqJ0H686UBKVorcZSgXaza8XMqGtJF/8mNhR9GQYi7Xht1ky+9LFOrto2daZto KJRwMeVusVdHUeKEQSu7jztw8HchH3KEb7Q+r5X+hhDZoddfKE8d5eyPuhiZdrzv7OlNZ0fSLdx7 3AE3nx9/R5YlXucCAwEAAaOCAtgwggLUMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgSwMB0GA1UdJQQW MBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUxGd+/qrdVudHrIKkw5xOMY7eaLUwHwYD VR0jBBgwFoAUU3Ltkpzg2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4UYIwHQYDVR0RBBYwFIESbWFtaWxsZTJAY2lzY28u Y29tMIIBTAYDVR0gBIIBQzCCAT8wggE7BgsrBgEEAYG1NwECAzCCASowLgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWImh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3BvbGljeS5wZGYwgfcGCCsGAQUFBwICMIHqMCcWIFN0YXJ0 Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MAMCAQEagb5UaGlzIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIHdhcyBp c3N1ZWQgYWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIHRoZSBDbGFzcyAxIFZhbGlkYXRpb24gcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIG9m IHRoZSBTdGFydENvbSBDQSBwb2xpY3ksIHJlbGlhbmNlIG9ubHkgZm9yIHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCBw dXJwb3NlIGluIGNvbXBsaWFuY2Ugb2YgdGhlIHJlbHlpbmcgcGFydHkgb2JsaWdhdGlvbnMuMDYG A1UdHwQvMC0wK6ApoCeGJWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NydHUxLWNybC5jcmwwgY4G CCsGAQUFBwEBBIGBMH8wOQYIKwYBBQUHMAGGLWh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zdWIv Y2xhc3MxL2NsaWVudC9jYTBCBggrBgEFBQcwAoY2aHR0cDovL2FpYS5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vY2Vy dHMvc3ViLmNsYXNzMS5jbGllbnQuY2EuY3J0MCMGA1UdEgQcMBqGGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRz c2wuY29tLzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEAlDhXbGEI7lbqUcu5r2JHZaMsbRZda/99ZqODzWGX 0llou9jGccsAWDPPwRRe2+ROpXfH4cuJZElTcLDeZSp/qpXKhjYieFSX8+Ml9sKEj5UOSqQLyoLk PtrIJV12Jk3nuG2Jc0UeEnGwK/aqtzy7+bfEVI0ziyVM2gChHh0RH74KyiwYWknbOTRIkZcz/ulE DVFQp63uj6wfmDNvAUHBAdhKVqA1S/rfP1KcDZpf1NfvwXJibiqTRA6K1EOxTJOP41n/XdvHqHXL RWL2xrOUI9/URANr/ok3OrsuZEMFnAAGefS1bWS/hFtUGVkHGiKEBbyDW7da2ULXbuC7umrQnzGC A28wggNrAgEBMIGUMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkG A1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRD b20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwaESDAJBgUrDgMCGgUA oIIBrzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMzA4MDIxMzI0 MDNaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRvGNdJRJSqJibQpzqSpYWuzL5kaTCBpQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGX MIGUMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2Vj dXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3Mg MSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwaESDCBpwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxgZeg gZQwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1 cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAx IFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDBoRIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBACQa aJEZl6sSd/NynMM3zJzkt+xtzr5/CNK612EXMy2uOhLhbK7mj/Jvf4wrsZWS1FmbbcatZ3JXmwKs 3beMVu8+RRhfWPhkH3AO4G0n9zhyMTURrjZegWOmNaE4rveFMzTdaHj8HKUgZxUbqDAgsOjC6pWr QCTfTafArPnVqQUw4uXKppfM0bRsPmKEfg2EDM4Il38Ht4RN2zuoaVbqaalMC9F0lrTdZkbARgkx /cDgKWfkAB/x3d83uWzOizmmB9O06uYZA09TA6NfIgARil4kCNvc2OnoWJpuX97Cdu48NDfcIi0c bqhGb/feb9PAtFnG8tx0YS/oL6hFxY02Y3IAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_9A467AF0-F979-457A-BC47-BFFA07758117-- From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Fri Aug 2 06:33:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CFD21F8EB2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.222, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MTzMsR2LvyoW for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4786121E80CF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:33:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375450405; x=1406986405; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:content-type; bh=2zxfDeSawC2ExyyWbddSd1fuILsGqsIGJ0fa07TC72I=; b=pfv/KwzzJEKXdwHWzED9VwlS4JJWUOTei0YSyJVYsv/PZz73/XBw5X+y Vq3HrBKWWTM+Axd81VX3WNPaut/INMH3i4d0wy2azO54AyiY1Hp/p8eJg qgy50Rk0NHAp1M6hDn1HtS3sO1Z0QSTbf7WgBJHPzUjLFyCdvWVuXVX4A U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66243852" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 06:33:15 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="489432927" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2013 06:33:15 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r72DXFCC011944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:33:15 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,801,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="85796574" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.73]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 06:33:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2088586958.7044140.1375449206937.JavaMail.root@loria.fr> References: <2088586958.7044140.1375449206937.JavaMail.root@loria.fr> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:22:34 -0700 To: Abdelkader Lahmadi , <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:33:31 -0000 At 3:13 PM +0200 8/2/13, Abdelkader Lahmadi wrote: > So, it will be nice to provide a web service for the next IETF > meetings where attendees will be able to know about the temperature > of meeting rooms. Would the purpose be to know if one should attend remotely? Or perhaps the attendees get to vote on what the temperature should be? -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent. From paitken@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 06:54:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578D521E80CE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wmUG1KhrGzNv for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABF821E80C3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:54:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=491; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375451686; x=1376661286; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G2Uec2soKcdNrrN/a2d9b8A0ZBlsd2cUgZq5oZr8lfw=; b=lK9rP3SuVZnTeAK+c0u16X0E2cjDRSEy1OVo9IA/5pmmnICAzVboXlj8 pGInfHwQtLxhQeh+yV1q7e19bFTsfj96lSbzs9KdbuPCHpH5HLV1tSQV5 CGKw8G1kVsddpE7iDKdc3aqwn/Y8R//CSb9a/UFnnBN8FurrufN5yvmo0 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Al8FAMm4+1GQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABagwY2gxi8CYEcFnSCJAEBAQQ4NgoRCxgJFg8JAwIBAgFFEwYCAQGIDLlEkB8Wg3cDl1+GJIsqgxg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,729,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="16262967" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Aug 2013 13:54:39 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r72DsbNK025980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:54:37 GMT Received: from [10.61.98.64] (dhcp-10-61-98-64.cisco.com [10.61.98.64]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r72DsaR7024618 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:54:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FBBA1E.3010504@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:54:38 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <87pptwco8q.fsf@nordberg.se> In-Reply-To: <87pptwco8q.fsf@nordberg.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:54:53 -0000 On 02/08/13 12:43, Linus Nordberg wrote: > "Olle E. Johansson" wrote > Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:24:49 +0200: > > | Just a note for the future. I think we should allow anonymous listeners, but should they really be allowed to participate? > > If at all possible, yes. Remote attendees should be no different to local attendees: every mic had a "state your name" card for those wanting to speak. Besides, IETF mailing lists, drafts, and RFCs are not anonymous. P. From mcr@sandelman.ca Fri Aug 2 06:59:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F61E11E836C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:59:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.209, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3iBl1BS891rJ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3::184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9334211E835B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2E720178; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 74E6B63A7C; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F11636AD; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:58:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:59:49 -0000 --=-=-= Ted Lemon wrote: > - ssh doesn't do happy eyeballs, and it tries IPv4 first, > so that didn't go so well. While ssh could certainly make two DNS requests and two connect(2)s, it can not cache the result anywhere. The same would be true for nearly every single cmd-line tool... so this begs a system-wide (but per-user!) happy-eyeballs cache. Such a daemon would also be a good repository for lots of MIF-like things. > - The VoIP client I use on the Mac, Blink, got back a AAAA > record and used the first four bytes of it as an IP > address, which was interesting. Humourous. So you connected to 0.96.x.y a lot? (assuming you were getting 0064: back) -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUfu6/IqHRg3pndX9AQJiQAP/TC29gM/PQ58ZBRrPlLthXdmTZS8Q8wqa kbbkZqCq3PlTT7nukEWoTYUZex+z+74DNb1VMPxPKC3jXDCRBajFVvLXt+HQEtKK 7CSwNB/N5rfAokcvC+9eCRCt9AF/bA135pdWZmYDrpwc9D347LBgO8gfoatiBpQt 7T5ALOKCjG0= =OFFg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From kireeti@juniper.net Fri Aug 2 07:05:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CD111E8357 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:05:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.533 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.533 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XkVjYYJsScD0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (mail-db9lp0250.outbound.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E712311E8252 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail126-db9-R.bigfish.com (10.174.16.251) by DB9EHSOBE003.bigfish.com (10.174.14.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:18 +0000 Received: from mail126-db9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail126-db9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFCC84E0138 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.224.50; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -1 X-BigFish: VPS-1(zz98dIda00hdc73hzz1f42h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1de098h8275bh1de097hz2fh2a8h683h839h944hd25he5bhf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1b2fh1fb3h1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received-SPF: pass (mail126-db9: domain of juniper.net designates 66.129.224.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.224.50; envelope-from=kireeti@juniper.net; helo=P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net ; SAC.jnpr.net ; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:157.56.234.117; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:SN2PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT Received: from mail126-db9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail126-db9 (MessageSwitch) id 1375452316225412_7190; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB9EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.16.236]) by mail126-db9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3382F220046 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.224.50) by DB9EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (10.174.14.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:14 +0000 Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:05:09 -0700 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.146.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:05:09 -0700 Received: from db9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (213.199.154.253) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:09:11 -0700 Received: from mail173-db9-R.bigfish.com (10.174.16.232) by DB9EHSOBE027.bigfish.com (10.174.14.90) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:07 +0000 Received: from mail173-db9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail173-db9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0C68017D for <87attendees@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail173-db9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail173-db9 (MessageSwitch) id 1375452306447875_30226; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB9EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.16.234]) by mail173-db9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F902460046; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SN2PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.234.117) by DB9EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (10.174.14.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:05:04 +0000 Received: from SN2PRD0510MB384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.33]) by SN2PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.116.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0341.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:04:57 +0000 From: Kireeti Kompella To: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Jabber scribing Thread-Index: AQHOjDCt6G0m/e1iH0KaIwsgn8CaIZl7SywAgAABKgCAAAd7AIAAAKQAgAAB+4CAAEqqgIAABDkAgAAE1QCAAAXCAIAAAl+AgAABFQCABhb3gIAAAemAgAAD2YCAAAnSAIAAANCAgAABGoCAAB5U2Q== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:04:57 +0000 Message-ID: <9E89F2D0-E19C-4714-AE87-F40BC22F3A78@juniper.net> References: <51F6290C.6000106@nomountain.net><51F62AB5.1030509@joelhalpern.com><28976.1375104226@sandelman.ca> <51F670F0.7020802@jitsi.org><51F675C4.9050901@internet2.edu> <51F677C1.80100@dcrocker.net><51F678AA.6000507@internet2.edu> <51FB946B.9030801@att.com><51FB9605.9030408@viagenie.ca> <51FB993F.5040609@alum.mit.edu> <51FBA17C.5010704@gmail.com>, <51FBA22B.5080703@computer.org>, <4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t.1375445649007@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <4b5942cur7bqej8jtkqhrj9t.1375445649007@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.147.109.192] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%COMPUTER.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%GMAIL.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%ALUM.MIT.EDU$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%CISCO.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: "Charles E. Perkins" , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Scott Brim , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:05:26 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 14:17, "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" wro= te: > Qr code on tag, qr reader on mike, automatic mute if you dont hold the qr= code into the reader Voice recognition, automatic jabberification ... problem solved. = From york@isoc.org Fri Aug 2 07:13:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A53211E8356 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LV1NW-bDW66u for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0153.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4E411E82E8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.146) by BLUPR06MB065.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.187.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.731.12; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:12:54 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.198]) by BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.16.81]) with mapi id 15.00.0731.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:12:54 +0000 From: Dan York To: "Olle E. Johansson" , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation Thread-Index: AQHOj2rhYs8wn0pXv0awi+6ehrMk9pmCF3CA Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:12:53 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.255.101.5] x-forefront-prvs: 0926B0E013 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(24454002)(51704005)(189002)(199002)(377454003)(479174003)(49866001)(47736001)(76482001)(4396001)(56776001)(56816003)(77096001)(50986001)(47976001)(54316002)(53806001)(83322001)(74706001)(54356001)(79102001)(36756003)(51856001)(63696002)(74366001)(76176001)(80022001)(76786001)(76796001)(77982001)(59766001)(65816001)(19580405001)(81342001)(81542001)(46102001)(561944002)(83072001)(74662001)(31966008)(74502001)(80976001)(47446002)(19580395003)(16406001)(74876001)(69226001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB065; H:BLUPR06MB067.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:10.255.101.5; RD:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0F506FC50AF78143B533E4C65F241BA1@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:13:02 -0000 Olle, On 8/2/13 12:24 PM, "Olle E. Johansson" wrote: >In rtcweb we have remote participants that prefer anonymity for a number >of reasons. > >The question is how this is handled in regards to note well, when they >want jabber scribes to relay opinions or proposals to the meeting. > >Just a note for the future. I think we should allow anonymous listeners, >but should they really be allowed to participate? We don't allow anonymous comments at the microphone in face-to-face meetings, requiring all people to clearly state their names and have those names recorded in the meeting minutes and in the Jabber log. I don't see why we would change this for remote participants. In all the years I've been doing Jabber-scribing, I've actually never run into a case where a remote attendee requested anonymity. I would have been puzzled like you. Obviously, anyone can be "anonymous" when joining a Jabber chat room and can even make all the comments they want in the chat room, but I think the moment they request a relay to the mic and the comment goes into the audio record and thereby also the meeting minutes then the comment needs to have a name attached to it. My 2 cents, Dan From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Fri Aug 2 07:20:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9007821E8083 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l0IipYoBgiTP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA4421E80AB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfvAJfeETmoYSmLiYSzvMZnoQH3mRIJe@postini.com; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:20:21 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998F91B827F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91040190065; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:20:21 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? Thread-Index: AQHOjr4a5brCocLMHEiuzClwaRMlxZmCDDSAgAAGm4CAAFvpgA== Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 14:20:20 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775240E2D@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077523C281@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <5E8BDF87-2255-4A81-BFE7-F130CFC78446@magma.ca> <51FB730F.4020402@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <51FB730F.4020402@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0E9F0C2F8ED72B4BB93053DDC5DCE4F9@nominum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] ief-nat64 network experiences? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:20:32 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > In another conference they used 464xlat and the user experience was > much better. This is not surprising, but wasn't really the goal. We have an IPv4 netwo= rk, and a 464xlat network would look pretty much like it, except with non-g= lobal addresses and no IPv6. It's certainly true that setting up a nat64 = network at an IETF, where we have a big block of IPv4 addresses to use, is = completely artificial, but the goal is threefold: - Reveal bugs in commonly-used applications as they operate on IPv6 rather than dual-stack - Reveal protocols that can't work over a NAT64 of which we weren't previously aware - Give people a taste of life on the native IPv6 network that we might see in our homes next year, or sometime thereafter. So while I really like the things that 464xlat allows to work, and think it= 's a useful migration tool, I greatly appreciate that you tried out the nat= 64 network, and hope you will continue to do so if we decide to continue pr= oviding it in the future. My hope is that more people at future IETFs wil= l have the experience I had: that I didn't have to give up and switch back = in order to get work done. BTW, the difference between this nat64 network and previous networks is tha= t we used a translator with sufficient capacity to handle the entire traffi= c of the IETF. The load that we had this time probably would have been sm= all enough that a small linux box would have done just fine, but I'm really= hoping we can make this a standard service and lure more and more people a= way from the IPv4 network and get them to eat the dogfood we are making her= e. From dhc@dcrocker.net Fri Aug 2 09:15:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60BA21E80CF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:15:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wwCyEe6N8vja for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB3621E80E4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.133] ([89.246.150.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r72GEa3O010936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:14:44 -0700 Message-ID: <51FBBE8C.5050707@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:13:32 +0200 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Olle E. Johansson" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 09:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org> attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:15:16 -0000 On 8/2/2013 12:24 PM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > Hi! > > In rtcweb we have remote participants that prefer anonymity for a number of reasons. > > The question is how this is handled in regards to note well, when they want jabber scribes to relay opinions or proposals to the meeting. The IPR issues are one of the reasons it is questionable to permit anonymous in the IETF, specifically in the context of our technical work. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From peter@denic.de Fri Aug 2 09:24:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579BD11E80EC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:24:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qQ+tCjBVSb-5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (office.denic.de [IPv6:2a02:568:122:16:1::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FCF521E8088 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de (x28.fra2.if.denic.de [10.122.64.17]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1V5I9N-0003Sw-Rv; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:24:21 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1V5I9N-00023Y-OM; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:24:21 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 18:24:21 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: 87attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130802162421.GC4882@x28.adm.denic.de> References: <51FB5F5F.5000905@iphh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51FB5F5F.5000905@iphh.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tuesday evening's social-event pictures? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:24:31 -0000 All, > Does anybody know when pictures of the great social-evening in the tech > museum on Tuesday (or any other meeting pictures) will get published? I > remember that a photographer on Tuesday said it would be Flickr'ed next day. a subset of those pictures taken during the social at the museum is now online at . If you feel like that's impressions captured during a rehearsal, I can assure you that's not the case. Instead, we have unfortunately run into a legal issue that we need to resolve, if possible. The Right of Publicity may require some advance notice and/or consent and I am very sorry to say we failed to properly prepare for that. Sincere apologies. We are seeking advice from the Bar (as in 'legal', not 'BOF', so draw your conclusions) and ask for a little bit of patience. I would like to thank everybody for coming to Berlin, for spending the evening with us at the museum and wish y'all an exciting stay in Berlin (if you have the opportunity) and a safe journey home. Danke! -Peter From paf@netnod.se Fri Aug 2 11:33:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DEA21F9991 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uVGZWeDe1Df2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netnod.se (mail.netnod.se [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:3::100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D295C21F995B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::14] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::14]) (Authenticated sender: paf) by mail.netnod.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 75BAD7C0EF; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 20:33:47 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Patrik Faltstrom In-Reply-To: <20130802162421.GC4882@x28.adm.denic.de> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 20:33:47 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51FB5F5F.5000905@iphh.net> <20130802162421.GC4882@x28.adm.denic.de> To: Peter Koch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tuesday evening's social-event pictures? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:33:56 -0000 On 2 aug 2013, at 18:24, Peter Koch wrote: > I would like to thank everybody for coming to Berlin, for spending the > evening with us at the museum and wish y'all an exciting stay in = Berlin > (if you have the opportunity) and a safe journey home. Peter, and others at DENIC, thanks for one of the most successful social = events I have been to. And I can say it has been quite a number of = them... Lots of food, lots of drinks (both alcoholic and non-alcoholic), = music, space and things to see and talk about. The event enabled = discussions, social, business and other. Exactly what I think events = should be like! Thanks! Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m Head of Research and Development Netnod From mundy@tislabs.com Fri Aug 2 12:46:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8322E11E80F9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:46:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GEAkAM18bKd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walnut.tislabs.com (walnut.tislabs.com [192.94.214.200]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C64111E8127 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.tislabs.com (unknown [10.66.1.77]) by walnut.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4295428B003A; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tera90.home.tislabs.com (nova.tislabs.com [10.66.1.77]) by nova.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F40E1F8032; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tera90.home.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4A1227EEA1; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Received: from tera90.home.tislabs.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (tera90.home.tislabs.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u2MqaUV-+D11; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [10.88.50.90]) by tera90.home.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEB3A227EE87; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7E195F77-90C6-4CF9-8256-27DCF050824C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Russ Mundy In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:45:32 -0400 Message-Id: <8788EEF2-B6BE-47DD-A2CC-A0CBB5EBA1E4@tislabs.com> References: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> To: chelliot@pobox.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Russ Mundy , David Black Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:46:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7E195F77-90C6-4CF9-8256-27DCF050824C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To the entire network crew, THANK YOU for the excellent network, I has = absolutely no problems!! On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:13 AM, "Black, David" wrote: > And a big thank you to everyone involved in providing this network! > =20 > Thanks, > --David > =20 > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Elliott > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:06 AM > To: 87attendees@ietf.org > Subject: [87attendees] IETF network teardown > =20 > All, > =20 > We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. > =20 > We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the = Intercontinental internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and = wireless in the rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas = of the hotel. > =20 > The IETF network, both wireless and wired, including the Terminal = Room, will be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to collect = APs, you may see our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down = without further notice, so Caveat Popularis. ;-) > =20 > Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you all in Vancouver. > =20 > Chris and the entire NOC team. >=20 > =20 > --=20 > Chris Elliott > chelliot@pobox.com > CCIE # 2013 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail=_7E195F77-90C6-4CF9-8256-27DCF050824C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii To = the entire network crew, THANK YOU for the excellent network, I has = absolutely no problems!!

On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:13 = AM, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com> = wrote:

And a big thank you to everyone involved in providing = this network!
From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris = Elliott
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 = 6:06 AM
To: 87attendees@ietf.org
Subject: [87attendees] IETF network = teardown
We = will be tearing down the IETF network this = afternoon.
We = will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental = internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the = rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the = hotel.
The = IETF network, both wireless and wired, including the Terminal Room, will = be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to collect APs, you may = see our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down without further = notice, so Caveat Popularis. ;-)
 
Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see = you all in Vancouver.
 

 
-- 
Chris = Elliott
CCIE # = 2013
_____________________________= __________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3BE21E8091 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.856 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.856 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sgv1qkFUdJKW for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB7211E80D7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id ta17so2020671obb.32 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:21:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2rWNwVix8WxTe1/T/RPO0UKFP4D3R8Iv+yiWGlVcfhQ=; b=tS38CX6t48pSbT8BFGM0h0Psy11J02RxqpH+MwyCjXpull7w48Mfu0/bMMHbA/Tg5d Z+aDgairx8kc3i+dPos64hZodeNkGkR1ql4bTu9If5Ov6DY0Avnd3JnJNAtTMwsbZ9s9 TxTzfA0WTbGBylahAzsqImd8twGUSLcc34PO4IjlDthjyt2tYmbldqGZvMQdvY1YakTl 9Kol8SBjIQ4TLWh3tUgpokXtIZaF5ICOcKM/GQiVP0Am26IxjXKEzkPAkXuCZWGYSDKW PVvcXQVfDOaxpBPDf75jcnCEzivJWjuRPtfKRPG9E1P/pAT3iPHIZjA3ld9wKKXvR+gm Dz6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.143.68 with SMTP id sc4mr6608116oeb.24.1375474912679; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 13:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.152.70 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 13:21:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 22:21:52 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Cao,Zhen" To: Hui Deng Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:21:58 -0000 + A very good overflow hotel, and many affordable hotels nearby. Thank ALL that make this happen. -caozhen On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Hui Deng wrote: > Very good example of protection of environment, applaud > > -Hui > > > 2013/8/2 Tim Chown >> >> Hi, >> >> Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue. >> >> Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a sauna!), lots >> of space to sit down and talk with people around a table or at the hotel >> bar. Good places to eat nearby, including the excellent biergarten, and >> other places (and some very good brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube >> ride away. And very friendly and helpful staff in the hotel. >> >> A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits n >> Bites. >> >> Thanks to everyone who made it possible :) >> >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From lberger@labn.net Fri Aug 2 16:30:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFF621E80B0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yGiuKnt9MYda for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.55.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B90D21E809E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31154 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 2013 23:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 23:29:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:To:From; bh=wfmM+k71E1yzhfEyPg9R4TJoWAEiahbZObgsqCp5or0=; b=F9WR/1UTbKX7g8POG8JLcKyCg0tumKj5isEj4deCyBm8sY1UEmoOsEzVJ5u/Q7IKNtLa0eGs9DCvcVx4DQl7E7OGxc6Cy/vSMJZ2H1PYqk797PJSOwRO2gDA+ZnOD+tx; Received: from [70.208.153.123] (port=11744 helo=[10.165.77.15]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V5On0-0003me-Fr; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:29:42 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: , , <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:29:41 -0400 Message-ID: <140407c9b25.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B10D@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B10D@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 AquaMail/1.2.4.0 (build: 2100294) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 70.208.153.123 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:30:13 -0000 I was there 60 min ahead with no issues. There was even a nice little snack stand and store in the gate area (A04/5). All very easy and efficient. E-check in worked smoothly too.. On August 2, 2013 11:19:15 AM wrote: > Hi, > > I recommend to be there at 8:30 (90 minutes before your flight leaves). > Tegel is small and that should give you enough time. > > Regards > > Nic > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] Im > Auftrag von Tony Hansen > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. August 2013 12:12 > An: <87attendees@ietf.org> > Betreff: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? > > What's the recommended amount of time to get to Tegel before a flight? > > For example, if a flight is leaving at 10:00, should you get there at > 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, 9:00? > > Tony Hansen > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From lberger@labn.net Fri Aug 2 16:30:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC5C21E80B6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mjdwf-jjnwE0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com [66.147.249.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D497D11E8144 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11573 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 2013 23:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2013 23:29:44 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:CC:To:From; bh=iZ/PLyY1Avn/a3bZJ+E9sDxbeMgRAnsxwNYCT8cv0Ek=; b=l5Qg1oEWFXUDdPtUxnuBhTyVb3o+a0fdaJvKN09Mcr3hrpg3mFZRe4YN6ghcErDg6wmksJY8/PNFwt32UusaHVPgeHgNog9X7Zo08RMDhSHPkmU0cGbb4D3WyqIBKGOM; Received: from [70.208.153.123] (port=11744 helo=[10.165.77.15]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V5On2-0003me-AL; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:29:44 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Scott Brim , CJ Aronson Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:29:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1404085949c.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <51FBA1CB.7070104@gmail.com> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> <51FBA1CB.7070104@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 AquaMail/1.2.4.0 (build: 2100294) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 70.208.153.123 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:30:14 -0000 Just went through LHR security a few hours ago. Belt & watch off, pockets emptied, shoes on except when you set the detector off. (Happened to the woman in front of me.) By this was security from outside, I don't thing there was any additional security on transfers... Lou On August 2, 2013 1:10:51 PM Scott Brim wrote: > On 08/02/13 12:31, CJ Aronson allegedly wrote: > > Very weird.. we were just in LHR on our way to Berlin and had to take > > off our shoes. We flew SFO - LHR - Berlin. Everyone in our line had > > to take off our shoes. > LHR is special. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From jon.hudson@gmail.com Fri Aug 2 19:19:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C06311E8158 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:19:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BWea9xA24Yql for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22f.google.com (mail-pb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD2B11E8155 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id rr4so1304965pbb.6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:19:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=bCxG3lat2criPmg6c3szNYN4tgDNzkIMa6FEdtZeu7A=; b=dD9+DW2NUHIOrO07Uf3k3gVBEKAp9U8uT6esAq7LWqN0rI8zBORiRMAVrRwDS72jc/ KT5xtSJ88APBt2sBe6P5n2kzL8alAu5FWM6TH6ibwxHdupicXupAMaXUbcRldrCnmGOP Abr6IvuBRrWBxFSxSqBYhsj3YRY7MWI6x39IkFHeR7n3o6BXTIPt035ygw3hE8vCoLqS 8lgq3KTVg3e9X2y9M7owSJKaG2z7taii89s90dqdhuJa08iiCuCiQHt6LieivdMXQ+3v 23HcC4bYiYvHz0482FeMqqds/dvheNtaf5UBK5uhcYQeDltNIILgrq0znPMskggG+gfh Vx5Q== X-Received: by 10.68.253.227 with SMTP id ad3mr6757622pbd.63.1375496350215; Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.47.172.209] (mobile-166-137-178-060.mycingular.net. [166.137.178.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pq1sm10554711pbb.26.2013.08.02.19.19.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:19:09 -0700 (PDT) References: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7129AB70C9C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <8788EEF2-B6BE-47DD-A2CC-A0CBB5EBA1E4@tislabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <8788EEF2-B6BE-47DD-A2CC-A0CBB5EBA1E4@tislabs.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-31A5C3E0-466C-48CA-AC8E-1382F327ABF5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Jon Hudson Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:19:03 -0700 To: "chelliot@pobox.com" , Russ Mundy Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, David Black Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF network teardown X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:19:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail-31A5C3E0-466C-48CA-AC8E-1382F327ABF5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You know, this is one topic I don't even we can over comment on. This was my 7th IETF. I am in awe of not only the network team but the consi= stency of the awesome performance one IETF to another. If all networks were run this way, it would be a happier universe. You all rock Jon On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Russ Mundy wrote: > To the entire network crew, THANK YOU for the excellent network, I has abs= olutely no problems!! >=20 > On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:13 AM, "Black, David" wrote: >=20 >> And a big thank you to everyone involved in providing this network! >> =20 >> Thanks, >> --David >> =20 >> From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] O= n Behalf Of Chris Elliott >> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:06 AM >> To: 87attendees@ietf.org >> Subject: [87attendees] IETF network teardown >> =20 >> All, >> =20 >> We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon. >> =20 >> We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Intercontinental i= nternet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireless in the rooms a= s well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hotel. >> =20 >> The IETF network, both wireless and wired, including the Terminal Room, w= ill be going down at 3pm. As it will take some time to collect APs, you may s= ee our SSIDs after this time, but they will go down without further notice, s= o Caveat Popularis. ;-) >> =20 >> Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you all in Vancouver. >> =20 >> Chris and the entire NOC team. >>=20 >> =20 >> --=20 >> Chris Elliott >> chelliot@pobox.com >> CCIE # 2013 >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail-31A5C3E0-466C-48CA-AC8E-1382F327ABF5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You know, this is one t= opic I don't even we can over comment on.

This was m= y 7th IETF. I am in awe of not only the network team but the consistency of t= he awesome performance one IETF to another.

If all n= etworks were run this way, it would be a happier universe.

You all rock

Jon

To the entire network crew, THANK YOU for the= excellent network, I has absolutely no problems!!

On= Aug 2, 2013, at 6:13 AM, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com> wrote:

And a big thank you to e= veryone involved in providing this network!
&= nbsp;
Thanks,
--David
 
=
From:=  87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mai= lto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Elliott
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:06 AM
To: 87attendees@ietf.orgSubject: [87atten= dees] IETF network teardown
 
All,
 
We will be tearing down the IETF network this afternoon.<= /div>
 
We will be transitioning the hotel network back to the Int= ercontinental internet connection at 2pm. This will affect wired and wireles= s in the rooms as well as the InterContinental SSID in all areas of the hote= l.
 
<= /div>
The IETF network, both wireless and wired, i= ncluding the Terminal Room, will be going down at 3pm. As it will take some t= ime to collect APs, you may see our SSIDs after this time, but they will go d= own without further notice, so Caveat Popularis. ;-)
<= div>
 
Thanks all for a successful meeting. Hope to see you all in Vancouver.=
 
Chris and the entire NOC team.

 
-- 
Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com
CCIE # 2013
___________________= ____________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

___________________= ____________________________
87attendees mailing list=
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
= --Apple-Mail-31A5C3E0-466C-48CA-AC8E-1382F327ABF5-- From sandy@tislabs.com Fri Aug 2 20:54:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8932821F997D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 20:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.555, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id stHdmTtVLk2A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 20:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walnut.tislabs.com (walnut.tislabs.com [192.94.214.200]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FAD121F9684 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 20:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.tislabs.com (unknown [10.66.1.77]) by walnut.tislabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC5D28B0017 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 23:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nova.tislabs.com (Postfix, from userid 2005) id E685D1F8033; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 23:54:09 -0400 (EDT) To: 87attendees@ietf.org Message-Id: <20130803035409.E685D1F8033@nova.tislabs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 23:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: sandy@tislabs.com Cc: sandy@tislabs.com Subject: [87attendees] possible net charge on hotel bill X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 03:54:15 -0000 When I tried to connect to the Intercon hotel wireless last night I got a splash page asking me to pick free 512kb wireless or a higher speed billed to my room. I called the front desk and they said that yes, wireless was incuded, and it would be removed from my bill. When I checked out this morning, the clerk read off all non-room charges and one day of internet access (20 euro) was included. I explained, he took it off the bill. No harm, no foul. And he mentioned it without prompting. Still, there might be reason to be checking your bill when you check out, particularly if you went through that splash page and picked the higher-than-512kb access. --Sandy From dhc@dcrocker.net Fri Aug 2 21:02:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B1F21E804B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 21:02:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xxF5VixsvrPn for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 21:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD67911E80F2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 21:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.140.221.9] ([88.128.80.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7341n8A024755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 21:01:54 -0700 Message-ID: <51FC80A5.6020300@dcrocker.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 06:01:41 +0200 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <20130803035409.E685D1F8033@nova.tislabs.com> In-Reply-To: <20130803035409.E685D1F8033@nova.tislabs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Fri, 02 Aug 2013 21:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [87attendees] possible net charge on hotel bill X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 04:02:03 -0000 On 8/3/2013 5:54 AM, sandy@tislabs.com wrote: > particularly if you went through that splash page > and picked the higher-than-512kb access. Small kudo to the hotel. I wasn't staying there and this free all-day access was perfect for email and simple web access. Really quite nice. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From lufang@cisco.com Fri Aug 2 22:13:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC78A21F9A7D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 22:13:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KEHboqswzMLJ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 22:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A09A21F9A72 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 22:13:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5336; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375506830; x=1376716430; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=+h4xnmQV/tGqGROnVg0QRSAAx9O9Q5euHnIYbOmdeKA=; b=gHeofmdPiBmB4QcsSCns1aNeI1f+Ho89PUi/XstfNGhxDpelr6PlISTJ cItKfssYZjSCDuEAtIL2qCOP6e8aFjrr7xZhYfHvxMafS2YNo0WYkIEq9 xJmCQ3nqqgpadGaAVFU+dILm7uGCKrs1CZcHjkqkUCYEPSpHeDWI9bgtl c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAPSQ/FGtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABagwY1g2C7fxeBBhZ0giUBAQEDAQEBIEsLEAIBCAQxCgMCAgIfBgsUEQIEDgWHfgMPDKdZiDQNiFoEjSeCbQQHgmYzdAOVdoFpjCeFJ4MX X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367971200"; d="scan'208,217";a="242814442" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 05:13:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com [173.37.183.86]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r735Dmu6018777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:13:48 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.202]) by xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([173.37.183.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:13:48 -0500 From: "Luyuan Fang (lufang)" To: Hui Deng Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOj3QbKLJt9XU+pEmBrIB+ONLIdZmCICkAgAAH6YA= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:13:47 +0000 Message-ID: <95FB96B3-3F7F-4202-BED7-4DDDD75FFC29@cisco.com> References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_95FB96B33F7F4202BED74DDDD75FFC29ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 05:13:56 -0000 --_000_95FB96B33F7F4202BED74DDDD75FFC29ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWJzb2x1dGVseS4gTGlrZSBpdCB0aGlzIHdheSBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiBjb2xkIGVuZXJneSB3YXN0 aW5nIHJvb21zLg0KV29uZGVyZnVsIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugb3ZlcmFsbCENClRoYW5rcyB0byBhbGwg d2hvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGVkIHRvIGl0IQ0KTHV5dWFuDQoNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmUNCg0K T24gQXVnIDIsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDE6NDQgUE0sICJIdWkgRGVuZyIgPGRlbmdodWkwMkBnbWFpbC5j b208bWFpbHRvOmRlbmdodWkwMkBnbWFpbC5jb20+PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KVmVyeSBnb29kIGV4YW1w bGUgb2YgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBvZiBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCwgYXBwbGF1ZA0KDQotSHVpDQoNCg0KMjAx My84LzIgVGltIENob3duIDx0amNAZWNzLnNvdG9uLmFjLnVrPG1haWx0bzp0amNAZWNzLnNvdG9u LmFjLnVrPj4NCkhpLA0KDQpPdmVyYWxsLCBhIHZlcnkgZ29vZCBtZWV0aW5nLCB3aXRoIGEgdmVy eSBnb29kIHZlbnVlLg0KDQpHb29kIG1lZXRpbmcgcm9vbXMgKHRob3VnaCBCZWxsZXZ1ZSBkb3Vi bGVkIHVwIGFzIGEgYml0IG9mIGEgc2F1bmEhKSwgbG90cyBvZiBzcGFjZSB0byBzaXQgZG93biBh bmQgdGFsayB3aXRoIHBlb3BsZSBhcm91bmQgYSB0YWJsZSBvciBhdCB0aGUgaG90ZWwgYmFyLiAg R29vZCBwbGFjZXMgdG8gZWF0IG5lYXJieSwgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHRoZSBleGNlbGxlbnQgYmllcmdh cnRlbiwgYW5kIG90aGVyIHBsYWNlcyAoYW5kIHNvbWUgdmVyeSBnb29kIGJyZXdwdWJzKSBqdXN0 IGEgc2hvcnQgdGF4aSByaWRlIG9yIHR1YmUgcmlkZSBhd2F5LiAgQW5kIHZlcnkgZnJpZW5kbHkg YW5kIGhlbHBmdWwgc3RhZmYgaW4gdGhlIGhvdGVsLg0KDQpBIGZ1biBzb2NpYWwsIGFuZCBzb21l IHJlYWwgSUVURiBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgb24gZGlzcGxheSBhdCBCaXRzIG4gQml0ZXMuDQoN ClRoYW5rcyB0byBldmVyeW9uZSB3aG8gbWFkZSBpdCBwb3NzaWJsZSA6KQ0KDQpUaW0NCl9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzo4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRm Lm9yZz4NCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMN Cg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCjg3YXR0 ZW5kZWVzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOjg3YXR0ZW5k ZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0 dGVuZGVlcw0K --_000_95FB96B33F7F4202BED74DDDD75FFC29ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <82FCBA6F10259A4B8862EFD4CDE36F30@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+DQo8 ZGl2PkFic29sdXRlbHkuIExpa2UgaXQgdGhpcyB3YXkgYmV0dGVyIHRoYW4gY29sZCBlbmVyZ3kg d2FzdGluZyByb29tcy48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+V29uZGVyZnVsIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugb3ZlcmFsbCE8 L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+VGhhbmtzIHRvIGFsbCB3aG8gY29udHJpYnV0ZWQgdG8gaXQhPC9kaXY+DQo8 ZGl2Pkx1eXVhbiZuYnNwOzxicj4NCjxicj4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmU8L2Rpdj4NCjxk aXY+PGJyPg0KT24gQXVnIDIsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDE6NDQgUE0sICZxdW90O0h1aSBEZW5nJnF1b3Q7 ICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZGVuZ2h1aTAyQGdtYWlsLmNvbSI+ZGVuZ2h1aTAyQGdtYWls LmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgdHlwZT0i Y2l0ZSI+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciI+DQo8ZGl2PlZlcnkgZ29vZCBleGFtcGxlIG9m IHByb3RlY3Rpb24gb2YgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQsIGFwcGxhdWQ8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+Jm5ic3A7PC9k aXY+DQo8ZGl2Pi1IdWk8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfZXh0cmEiPjxi cj4NCjxicj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIj4yMDEzLzgvMiBUaW0gQ2hvd24gPHNw YW4gZGlyPSJsdHIiPiZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86dGpjQGVjcy5zb3Rvbi5hYy51ayIgdGFy Z2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPnRqY0BlY3Muc290b24uYWMudWs8L2E+Jmd0Ozwvc3Bhbj48YnI+DQo8Ymxv Y2txdW90ZSBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW46MCAwIDAgLjhleDtib3Jk ZXItbGVmdDoxcHggI2NjYyBzb2xpZDtwYWRkaW5nLWxlZnQ6MWV4Ij4NCkhpLDxicj4NCjxicj4N Ck92ZXJhbGwsIGEgdmVyeSBnb29kIG1lZXRpbmcsIHdpdGggYSB2ZXJ5IGdvb2QgdmVudWUuPGJy Pg0KPGJyPg0KR29vZCBtZWV0aW5nIHJvb21zICh0aG91Z2ggQmVsbGV2dWUgZG91YmxlZCB1cCBh cyBhIGJpdCBvZiBhIHNhdW5hISksIGxvdHMgb2Ygc3BhY2UgdG8gc2l0IGRvd24gYW5kIHRhbGsg d2l0aCBwZW9wbGUgYXJvdW5kIGEgdGFibGUgb3IgYXQgdGhlIGhvdGVsIGJhci4gJm5ic3A7R29v ZCBwbGFjZXMgdG8gZWF0IG5lYXJieSwgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHRoZSBleGNlbGxlbnQgYmllcmdhcnRl biwgYW5kIG90aGVyIHBsYWNlcyAoYW5kIHNvbWUgdmVyeSBnb29kIGJyZXdwdWJzKQ0KIGp1c3Qg YSBzaG9ydCB0YXhpIHJpZGUgb3IgdHViZSByaWRlIGF3YXkuICZuYnNwO0FuZCB2ZXJ5IGZyaWVu ZGx5IGFuZCBoZWxwZnVsIHN0YWZmIGluIHRoZSBob3RlbC48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpBIGZ1biBzb2Np YWwsIGFuZCBzb21lIHJlYWwgSUVURiBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgb24gZGlzcGxheSBhdCBCaXRz IG4gQml0ZXMuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KVGhhbmtzIHRvIGV2ZXJ5b25lIHdobyBtYWRlIGl0IHBvc3Np YmxlIDopPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KVGltPGJyPg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188YnI+DQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8YnI+DQo8YSBo cmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmciPjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPC9h Pjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdh dHRlbmRlZXMiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzPC9hPjxicj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJyPg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIHR5cGU9ImNpdGUiPg0K PGRpdj48c3Bhbj5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xzwvc3Bhbj48YnI+DQo8c3Bhbj44N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8L3NwYW4+PGJyPg0K PHNwYW4+PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnIj44N2F0dGVuZGVlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48L3NwYW4+PGJyPg0KPHNwYW4+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlcyI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlczwvYT48L3NwYW4+PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_95FB96B33F7F4202BED74DDDD75FFC29ciscocom_-- From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Sat Aug 3 00:24:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2688221F85B8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:24:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.158 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.158 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmjT4vnafmjM for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EB521F9B01 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id r737OYK1019158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:24:34 +0200 Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r737OY2v013615 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:24:34 +0200 (envelope-from alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([132.166.86.3]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id r737OHm4020468 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:24:34 +0200 Message-ID: <51FCB021.5080802@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:24:17 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <95FB96B3-3F7F-4202-BED7-4DDDD75FFC29@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <95FB96B3-3F7F-4202-BED7-4DDDD75FFC29@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 07:24:42 -0000 Thanks to Berlin organizers, very good conditions. The room temperature was as good as it could be. Much better than at other meetings. It is a difficult problem and it was handled well. The snack breaks - excellent variety in food. The walk proximity to park and tourist areas (Brandenburg/Reichstag) and various stores. The technical social event, the Bussing buses and the hit straps (aka Reflector Attack!). The comfort of the bar. Thank you organizers. Alex Le 03/08/2013 07:13, Luyuan Fang (lufang) a écrit : > Absolutely. Like it this way better than cold energy wasting rooms. > Wonderful experience overall! Thanks to all who contributed to it! > Luyuan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:44 PM, "Hui Deng" > wrote: > >> Very good example of protection of environment, applaud -Hui >> >> >> 2013/8/2 Tim Chown > > >> >> Hi, >> >> Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue. >> >> Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a >> sauna!), lots of space to sit down and talk with people around a >> table or at the hotel bar. Good places to eat nearby, including >> the excellent biergarten, and other places (and some very good >> brewpubs) just a short taxi ride or tube ride away. And very >> friendly and helpful staff in the hotel. >> >> A fun social, and some real IETF implementations on display at Bits >> n Bites. >> >> Thanks to everyone who made it possible :) >> >> Tim _______________________________________________ 87attendees >> mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> >> >> _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing >> list 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing > list 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com Sat Aug 3 00:38:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F40221E80C1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I7fKWHSeQ1oy for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm20-vm3.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm20-vm3.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C641611E810C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.196.81.161] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2013 07:37:55 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.131] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2013 07:37:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Aug 2013 07:37:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 270958.26144.bm@omp1007.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 88879 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Aug 2013 07:37:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1375515474; bh=29vawIix+sgu9eC69PgMYvAmc9IeTynOJrQNnj6cioE=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=PAqVthJJ8kmBU8B0BZ/j7Adt8OaiB+AAP3Mo5o4xfRkojBy38bqTFXkmiizOvKzl/JHle8Tr3BOKCx+1dHPVY4qY0Ld9YmqnwnsjKvyztURRgzqJfr9wO+ORcvmTSr1erM8DBAfC+PVmSchD5hpjbpBF6RQydkzHE7jI8XsSugI= X-YMail-OSG: J17DeqUVM1noRh7OxXWERsVFXf4Wp8M9yEBSJ482qhtZZRx uk07sGG0C5rPADLZDUD.hG1vmWJeLbdGlt2oksc1zoW9VmSSoEC4TXuQC3Jg ABXv1nFtuGWp.bPW7hDVpU2zNe3xR0E2.pGDHQwGKY0q1XU_0HMsvWE1kMTI 9EH1GLTwN3a3UC.PlJMMeSyvsdGJNWFMFY5btrXWNkD71RL4PO1JJcOK6n0U 7oaV2dxQEP3dSuPPNYbDXYkDQlF05E68oYRfQEnXOapSyz7egecEMjKm69n9 rMIpIw33mJ6kQ4ATeZzSmCc_cJUiddCjolDAW.D0RiZ.aBFd6aBvpPOHUt1K OjI6fFNahiNaJMbhglBYOQWERP4dwE4sZsrhHJWPDugq2S4ASkPQkW2Cdoxg 78C1ffFj_zi_JNO_I.fWuGWl4yVhpJG7W0BphTkVFE_jwCiEuCLN8cmFr871 .Os8YD4rWlDnmggKJTDjoyqtCz3JoERPgPwK.Jd.uRCffL6giVyVnN3kGIJg I6nKdltLLvLL.pMjbb28nzicmdZDrPCbtld7lBWGnCTL0uY7wNUGZSLV_c.f rnCa9iW1_QdGf0lSvVcFAbsEWyDbiCmtBADqFAcTAEwp.KfYydpf89TDk0BM 4UZgTfhorMlcT8ILjg4nZGBhfC4hrBA.NZTKTqFgSvqZbIeXnPct8vcNyf5Y p7cLz0eVO Received: from [91.135.13.39] by web2805.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 00:37:54 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, CgrCoCsxCgpUaGFua3Mgc28gbXVjaCwgZXZlcnlvbmUhIMKgIExvdHMgb2YgZnVuIHdhcyBoYWQgYWNjZXNzaW5nIHRoZSBOQVQ2NCBuZXR3b3JrLgoKR3JlYXQgdmVudWUuIMKgIExvb2sgZm9yd2FyZCB0byBWYW5jb3V2ZXIuCgpUaGFua3MsCgoKTmFsaW5pIEVsa2lucwpJbnNpZGUgUHJvZHVjdHMsIEluYy4KKDgzMSkgNjU5LTgzNjAKd3d3Lmluc2lkZXRoZXN0YWNrLmNvbQoKCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwogRnJvbTogQWxleGFuZHJ1IFBldHJlc2N1IDxhbGV4YW5kcnUucGUBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.152.567 References: <0ADB4670-73B6-4BFE-9481-B874CC3F3DF0@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <95FB96B3-3F7F-4202-BED7-4DDDD75FFC29@cisco.com> <51FCB021.5080802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1375515474.78638.YahooMailNeo@web2805.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 00:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Nalini Elkins To: Alexandru Petrescu , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <51FCB021.5080802@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1619178251-1710355085-1375515474=:78638" Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Nalini Elkins List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 07:38:05 -0000 --1619178251-1710355085-1375515474=:78638 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=A0+1=0A=0AThanks so much, everyone! =A0 Lots of fun was had accessin= g the NAT64 network.=0A=0AGreat venue. =A0 Look forward to Vancouver.=0A=0A= Thanks,=0A=0A=0ANalini Elkins=0AInside Products, Inc.=0A(831) 659-8360=0Aww= w.insidethestack.com=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: A= lexandru Petrescu =0ATo: 87attendees@ietf.org= =0ASent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 12:24 AM=0ASubject: Re: [87attendees] Th= ank you Berlin=0A =0A=0AThanks to Berlin organizers, very good conditions.= =0A=0AThe room temperature was as good as it could be.=A0 Much better than = at=0Aother meetings.=A0 It is a difficult problem and it was handled well.= =0A=0AThe snack breaks - excellent variety in food.=0A=0AThe walk proximity= to park and tourist areas (Brandenburg/Reichstag) and=0Avarious stores.=0A= =0AThe technical social event, the Bussing buses and the hit straps (aka=0A= Reflector Attack!).=0A=0AThe comfort of the bar.=0A=0AThank you organizers.= =0A=0AAlex=0A=0ALe 03/08/2013 07:13, Luyuan Fang (lufang) a =E9crit :=0A> A= bsolutely. Like it this way better than cold energy wasting rooms.=0A> Wond= erful experience overall! Thanks to all who contributed to it!=0A> Luyuan= =0A>=0A> Sent from my iPhone=0A>=0A> On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:44 PM, "Hui Deng"= > wrote:=0A>=0A>> Ver= y good example of protection of environment, applaud -Hui=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> 20= 13/8/2 Tim Chown > >=0A= >>=0A>> Hi,=0A>>=0A>> Overall, a very good meeting, with a very good venue.= =0A>>=0A>> Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubled up as a bit of a=0A>= > sauna!), lots of space to sit down and talk with people around a=0A>> tab= le or at the hotel bar.=A0 Good places to eat nearby, including=0A>> the ex= cellent biergarten, and other places (and some very good=0A>> brewpubs) jus= t a short taxi ride or tube ride away.=A0 And very=0A>> friendly and helpfu= l staff in the hotel.=0A>>=0A>> A fun social, and some real IETF implementa= tions on display at Bits=0A>> n Bites.=0A>>=0A>> Thanks to everyone who mad= e it possible :)=0A>>=0A>> Tim ____________________________________________= ___ 87attendees=0A>> mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org =0A>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>> _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing= =0A>> list 87attendees@ietf.org =0A>> https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees=0A>=0A>=0A> _____________________= __________________________ 87attendees mailing=0A> list 87attendees@ietf.or= g=0A> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees=0A>=0A=0A=0A_______= ________________________________________=0A87attendees mailing list=0A87att= endees@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --1619178251-1710355085-1375515474=:78638 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 +1

Thanks so much, everyone! &nb= sp; Lots of fun was had accessing the NAT64 network.

Great venue.   Look forward to Vancouver.

= Thanks,


Nalini Elkins
Inside Products, Inc.=
(831) 659-8360
www.insidethestack.com

From: Alexandru Petrescu <ale= xandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
To:= 87attendees@ietf.org
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [87attendees] Thank you B= erlin

=0AThanks to Be= rlin organizers, very good conditions.

The room temperature was as g= ood as it could be.  Much better than at
other meetings.  It i= s a difficult problem and it was handled well.

The snack breaks - ex= cellent variety in food.

The walk proximity to park and tourist area= s (Brandenburg/Reichstag) and
various stores.

The technical socia= l event, the Bussing buses and the hit straps (aka
Reflector Attack!).
The comfort of the bar.

Thank you organizers.

Alex
<= br>Le 03/08/2013 07:13, Luyuan Fang (lufang) a =E9crit :
> Absolutely= . Like it this way better than cold energy wasting rooms.
> Wonderful= experience overall! Thanks to all who contributed to it!
> Luyuan>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:44 P= M, "Hui Deng" <denghui02@gmail.com
> <mailto:denghui02@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> V= ery good example of protection of environment, applaud -Hui
>>
= >>
>> 2013/8/2 Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk
&= gt;> <mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>
>>
>&g= t; Hi,
>>
>> Overall, a very good meeting, with a very go= od venue.
>>
>> Good meeting rooms (though Bellevue doubl= ed up as a bit of a
>> sauna!), lots of space to sit down and talk= with people around a
>> table or at the hotel bar.  Good pla= ces to eat nearby, including
>> the excellent biergarten, and othe= r places (and some very good
>> brewpubs) just a short taxi ride o= r tube ride away.  And very
>> friendly and helpful staff in t= he hotel.
>>
>> A fun social, and some real IETF implemen= tations on display at Bits
>> n Bites.
>>
>> Tha= nks to everyone who made it possible :)
>>
>> Tim _______= ________________________________________ 87attendees
>> mailing li= st 87attendees@ietf.org <mailto:87attendees@ietf.org&g= t;
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees>>
>>
>> ________________________________________= _______ 87attendees mailing
>> list 87attendees@ietf.org <mailto:87attendees@ietf.org>
>> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>
>
> _________= ______________________________________ 87attendees mailing
> list 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/87attendees
>


_____________________________________= __________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees


=20
--1619178251-1710355085-1375515474=:78638-- From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sat Aug 3 02:37:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C3D21E80C8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LfLQnEep8Fmi for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E185821E8097 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375522651; x=1407058651; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:content-type; bh=OjzEGdkc9Kbv8hUcfJdBw1Lail228HAcg8fnGZHcpgE=; b=cLmn92nMIeX/T26u4hCGk6OeUy4CYkM5zFzOlBU0D9osqc9tkVbt2L/s H89m2XyvKi9bzEpXGTUzfCJ0RoVeD+3L4HJcEkGIw42HOsgfYWPaaQfZL kzLtCTW4OUla5/d6TE3KiaAVmch0h+1gUrKwhcq9T6d4aHIpS5uskA7ru 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66536713" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="524921648" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r739bVPJ025967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="578442253" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.13.172]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <51FBBA1E.3010504@cisco.com> References: <87pptwco8q.fsf@nordberg.se> <51FBBA1E.3010504@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:26:59 -0700 To: Paul Aitken , <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] procedural question with remote participation X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:37:36 -0000 At 2:54 PM +0100 8/2/13, Paul Aitken wrote: > On 02/08/13 12:43, Linus Nordberg wrote: >> "Olle E. Johansson" wrote >> Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:24:49 +0200: >> >> | Just a note for the future. I think we should allow anonymous >> listeners, but should they really be allowed to participate? >> >> If at all possible, yes. > > Remote attendees should be no different to local attendees: every > mic had a "state your name" card for those wanting to speak. > > Besides, IETF mailing lists, drafts, and RFCs are not anonymous. They require that one state a name or email address, but there is no verification or authentication. Anyone can state any name at the mic, or send an email from any address, with or without any name in the phrase component of From header field. Obviously, in a meeting room as opposed to email or Jabber there is an additional aspect in that others in the room can see you, and you might even be wearing a name badge (regardless of where on one's body the name badge is placed). -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- A successful tool is used to do something undreamed of by its author. --Johnson From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sat Aug 3 02:37:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7BA21E80E1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.952, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJV4PP9VDY4N for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6F421E809A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375522655; x=1407058655; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:content-type; bh=2vKgXtpfohKpAVoY5X7K+4k2bpeF6mKYx3tjJKbELro=; b=Mkt+RctS4aFMBYxy9R2toJJ5ruiCLI+pySWg6OQpwZJPlHElPHMQxSEM NUygiwF0McIjN8TF1+qpbgWVnmSzGoVSLGklusSIi4mPO+MA5N8Fs+j9m lnDF/IxN+JoCmifHkp4ujHTlbDsbo2bOnYvukbRkN2ng3pWqgOUEUmbLq A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48761825" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="88321309" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:34 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r739bVPK025967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="578442258" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.13.172]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <140407c9b25.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B10D@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <140407c9b25.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:32:44 -0700 To: Lou Berger , , , <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:37:40 -0000 At 7:29 PM -0400 8/2/13, Lou Berger wrote: > I was there 60 min ahead with no issues. There was even a nice > little snack stand and store in the gate area (A04/5). All very > easy and efficient. E-check in worked smoothly too.. Were you on the BA flight to LHR? I saw someone in the gate area in an IETF shirt. By the way, consistent with past experience on flights within Europe, security was usual for Europe, with the exception that I was asked to take liquids out of the carry-on luggage before placing everything into the X-ray machine. Just to recap: laptops out, shoes on, liquids out. ID checked only during boarding. It took less than 15 minutes to get to the airport, even leaving at 5:50 PM, and it took maybe 3 minutes to get through security. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. --Mae West. From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sat Aug 3 02:37:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8D221E8097 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.508 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.508 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.909, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ye1vFA541jg0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5700321E80C8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375522657; x=1407058657; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=JzVRcVGR6zegedv7wjo7nHdYZ/BcsswWf4OWSUaEuY4=; b=IQ/ARweoQDq8yEbXIhUAf0+qaEzJpwKmq0V3UCVQEduttflpxROPhmVL y//ZY80O8AsiCT0ztNgX+OYI2LBx4+MzCTnW2+JNnUzFkgxvb0wqGW+wJ 1pAbjOJJLyIKDOQs7Arl+D5DLZ3mrJRFET5Wa4Z+Ku0MS4qNiJJruxU91 s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48761826" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:37 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="88321317" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:37 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r739bVPL025967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:37:36 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,806,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="578442261" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.13.172]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 02:37:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1404085949c.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> References: <51F9839A.1040605@cisco.com> <51FA102F.90708@cisco.com> <2D0564C0-CB83-467A-B3B1-3D274B1F1412@nostrum.com> <328EE8B7-6E4F-49E6-9B56-F655A2DBE003@gmail.com> <51FBA1CB.7070104@gmail.com> <1404085949c.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:36:12 -0700 To: Lou Berger , Scott Brim , CJ Aronson From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:37:45 -0000 At 7:29 PM -0400 8/2/13, Lou Berger wrote: > I don't thing there was any additional security on transfers... At LHR, you do reclear security when transferring. It's a different security line than when entering from groundside, but the security itself is identical. I'm still waiting for clarification regarding the report of heightened security on someone's LHR-TXL flight (which airline, which terminal, if shoes were specifically ordered off or if everyone just took them off because the person in front did so). -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Nothing is as irritating as a man who chats pleasantly while he's overcharging you. --Kin Hubbard From bcampbell@pingidentity.com Sat Aug 3 02:41:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EC121E80ED for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.832, BAYES_20=-0.74, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RVLQZL4N6ROG for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog128.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog128.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4E511E80F6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com ([209.85.219.41]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob128.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfzQR1dGCpzW7X7SN3vwxUwl9+3SybSf@postini.com; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:41:28 PDT Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id j6so3185447oag.0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:41:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=bCYzFVoh+udNL08r4Uv5l3y7hBWm2P7jJk0Ep7YrQJw=; b=AUZLTFtO5q4gQdK+v5ZGWWd61BgtizqMdZ8Xz4jN+JQC+7uOM7AEkNK+qYXLmw36YT YriyvoCN9nbmsvke3BPTXuuMbyGOJbqqQV70Tn8DMw5ww1qLJ4ts01A0hI8kCIyGjhjv 5EFwbBq6zYHBH7SJREDwqaPuyL1EgW+90d2fQ3xXuEzNqPBmfP/u7aZL4kjbyD/L6xK2 eT8sCm6XDGKGT7WB9NtEsyQ9nHLBJAJ9xP4XkpB/6hFU+PQ9IMgxmRxfVTG/w/7+Mxvc m1RMf8ywONfdRQ7kfFjGbZjhCfuvX1AGYbyUCnuFOAhuev+Ppb1D4mkIuG4tPvGjN5dB Y6bQ== X-Received: by 10.43.119.73 with SMTP id ft9mr952070icc.96.1375522886584; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:41:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.119.73 with SMTP id ft9mr952068icc.96.1375522886465; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 02:41:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.41.34 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 02:40:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Campbell Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:40:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51864c40751ee04e307e1de X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm3ZhmoNiJqmnm6nl75LhbhP4rsrjw6IgoXAM4AihwtjC3DgzCMYwudctF+mzvzSl/MdNyq2x2pkOVvCAO8pEFGtSV//VsFGJqI5mkSfv/eCFFuJhAunfwVV+cIILPEn5E/PTu6wxF0Zhm195RQhMSToUQRSA== Subject: [87attendees] imitation is... X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:41:33 -0000 --bcaec51864c40751ee04e307e1de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I managed to take almost the same photo as the one on IETF 87 page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian-d-campbell/9389659133/ (How are those photos chosen anyway?) And a few others around the city: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian-d-campbell/sets/72157634912893526 --bcaec51864c40751ee04e307e1de Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
I managed to take almost the same photo as the one on IETF 87 page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian-d-campbell/9389659133/
(How are those photos chosen anyway?)

And a few others around the city:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian-d-campbell/sets/72157634912893526


--bcaec51864c40751ee04e307e1de-- From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 3 05:47:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6636B11E8186 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rOOxEluq7OWX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og106.obsmtp.com (exprod7og106.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAA621F991F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob106.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfz73YH0vexBZwpFJiiv36/TM/K7z9sf@postini.com; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 05:47:26 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1794E1B8294 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 117D1190060; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:47:25 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Randall Gellens Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHs5uH6IhNjUqWJoeNU/1aMZmCPMWAgAFqfwA= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 12:47:24 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 12:47:34 -0000 On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: >> I had to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room t= o wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I might pass o= ut. >=20 > I'm truly sorry you were so overheated, Mary. We do have this discussion= every meeting, and of course everyone's preference is different. While I'= m grateful I was comfortable during this meeting, of course I wouldn't want= that to come at the expense of someone else being in distress! +1 >> I still stand by the mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layer= s. If you are too hot, you can only take off so many layers. >=20 > I understand the logic of this, and it's something I hear repeated consta= ntly, although it always seems to be said by people who prefer it colder an= d are advising others :-) This is a really important consideration, and I think that there were issue= s with temperature control particularly when meetings got crowded. It is = also important to realize though that excessive use of air conditioning is = not free. It has significant environmental impact, and also cost. The f= ormer is presumably why Germany has laws about how much AC you can use. So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in = 6man, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with = temperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms a= re also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should n= ot be lost. From brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com Sat Aug 3 06:55:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB6411E80F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:55:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.219, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uEe7KYbPSkNt for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x22b.google.com (mail-ea0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249CD21F9A16 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f171.google.com with SMTP id n15so791273ead.16 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 06:55:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=+rhG9HUY5Ka2KWWzfdqV+xakffo6V27rw5S7250wbOM=; b=ZqZHeUE085Syba0JrwRXrzAHALsyBoc3fKHnat5LxTIuIRf8T75XS6fr1gDVYwl0CW rRY6I1WNvpUwWcQkTHXLTadQsvnGm3mx9S5Ph0DChBeC5Kod1EnAixcFQEh0Z5kky9PS 9TSeTyGeKRKPZ2IYty4fdAYsb7kwyK/Q52WdcVFIxJPvYAuhTeQKhhqoqIOdfGpMhPue NyUMUpuHooKAP9lMAxo3+d+D1kqWtJuzqJfSJi3kjV2qdIU98XqUqQk93R1bI7Mx1HIq Dwt2CYxqgKPKJCxQYV/D440F6CoB9+w3hGeEX6uYnsPuYyHBQGLtCM8x8nz597nTCXfC GEyA== X-Received: by 10.15.95.4 with SMTP id bc4mr9518714eeb.40.1375538130196; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 06:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.10.187] ([77.241.230.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j2sm19539492eep.6.2013.08.03.06.55.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 03 Aug 2013 06:55:29 -0700 (PDT) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-FB7D8019-F7EB-47A9-A3F4-6B14434AC317 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3889592F-7BF5-4A16-A559-6450E62B16E7@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Brian Dickson Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 15:55:28 +0200 To: Mary Barnes Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 13:55:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail-FB7D8019-F7EB-47A9-A3F4-6B14434AC317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in Potsdam 1 ri= ght now and uncomfortably warm. =20 I think there are two distinct issues which are not identical, nor are they o= rthogonal. They do, however, suggest different optimal temperatures, which i= s unfortunate. Issue #1 is comfort, something which tends to be subjective and even for eac= h individual can vary. Issue #2 is functional. For every individual, there is a temperature range w= here the ability to perform routine tasks, to pay attention, to stay awake, o= r even remain conscious, begins to be compromised. Since the point of IETF meetings is participation and feedback, IMHO room te= mperature control needs to meet facilitate as close to 100% "uptime" as poss= ible. I know personally that I cannot stay awake once 23 C is reached, and that oc= curred at least once this IETF (both 23+ C and falling asleep). It was not a= s bad as other IETFs, and most rooms this meeting might have been warmer tha= n I am comfortable with, but not so warm as to affect performance. Maybe there needs to be a survey on the two ranges, to try to objectively es= tablish acceptable and optimal temperatures for meeting rooms, and to commun= icate that to venue folks? NB: it might be the case that in order to avoid LoC for a statistically sign= ificant percentage of folks, that temp below the comfort range of another se= t of folks might be necessary. Eg, in degrees F, two people might have 62-65= -68-73 and 66-69-74-79 respectively. There would be no temp mutually comfor= table (65-68 vs 69-74), but there would be temps outside acceptable for one t= hat was still comfortable for the other (65 at low end, 74 at high end). Given that we observe temperatures generally rise, it would be sensible to e= rr on the low side. In the example above, 68 or 69 would be good, with rise t= o 73 being okay.=20 Either that, or pick 20 C as our standard :-) > I had to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold washcloth from my room to w= rap around my neck as I was getting light headed and felt I might pass out. = =20 Mary's words show that this is more than a subjective comfort thing - it bor= ders on being a safety issue. If it is something we can do something about, we should try, at least. Brian= --Apple-Mail-FB7D8019-F7EB-47A9-A3F4-6B14434AC317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mary Barn= es <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:








Given that we observe temperatures generally rise, it would be sensible to= err on the low side. In the example above, 68 or 69 would be good, with ris= e to  73 being okay. 


I had to leave the room on Sund= ay to get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck as I was gett= ing light headed and felt I might pass out.   
<= br>
Mary's words show that this is more than a subjective comfort thing -= it borders on being a safety issue.

If it is somet= hing we can do something about, we should try, at least.

Brian
= --Apple-Mail-FB7D8019-F7EB-47A9-A3F4-6B14434AC317-- From moore@network-heretics.com Sat Aug 3 07:36:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C97E21F9F12 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:36:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.613 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.613 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id btr88cFteVgb for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E207F21F9C9A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC80A208D4; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:36:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; s=smtpout; bh=llW Gza42GvJrkYlCByl4102sSII=; b=oKkb0cHTv8enGoi+cs+vWEf22diowCEcgtC kDcKNaYfjowelhNrAfvHP+y7dk9+wV+QxM2/tnlKxTUfsiZhLYMklyZI7NXrahIC ODi+90rdWXL8tFf+Wd/4LLluGmGkmn59Wyj/tMHIB1aNomtiIjFWE1OqHLr7QLgO aMXgxRqI= X-Sasl-enc: tfzhYi5Cr+kiZXMBdSlwNFM99EuLcYqXStoh1K2C7a2m 1375540600 Received: from surfer-172-29-8-65-hotspot.internet-for-guests.com (unknown [87.193.195.90]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C2BD568019B; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--51076491 From: Keith Moore In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:36:38 +0200 Message-Id: <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> To: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes , Randall Gellens , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:36:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1--51076491 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been = higher in 6man, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the = only one with temperature control issues, I think the point that = too-cold meeting rooms are also a problem, even if we can cope with them = by adding layers, should not be lost. I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill = due to the temperature in the room. I don't entirely blame it on the = hotel, as most rooms were quite comfortable. But lack of AC capacity = to sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or = impairment in adapting to conditions by local laws, are things that = should cause us to hesitate to choose such meeting locations in the = future. Keith --Apple-Mail-1--51076491 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
So while I = definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in 6man, = and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with = temperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting = rooms are also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding = layers, should not be lost.

I left = more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill due to = the temperature in the room.   I don't entirely blame it on the = hotel, as most rooms were quite comfortable.   But lack of AC = capacity to sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or = impairment in adapting to conditions by local laws, are things that = should cause us to hesitate to choose such meeting locations in the = future.

Keith

= --Apple-Mail-1--51076491-- From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 3 07:41:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E489021F9B1B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kcxAgHvR2jjb for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og117.obsmtp.com (exprod7og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF49521E8064 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob117.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUf0WlscOn7FTKmUAn9IXJfupYuVP/hjA@postini.com; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 07:41:30 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8461B825D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71413190060; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:41:26 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Keith Moore Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHs5uH6IhNjUqWJoeNU/1aMZmCPMWAgAFqfwCAAFz5AIAAAVUA Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:41:25 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B6307752423D3@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57B7C2C84C703344B8B6F32E50367700@nominum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes , Randall Gellens , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:41:42 -0000 On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore wrote: > I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill due= to the temperature in the room. I don't entirely blame it on the hotel, = as most rooms were quite comfortable. But lack of AC capacity to sufficie= ntly adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting= to conditions by local laws, are things that should cause us to hesitate t= o choose such meeting locations in the future. To be clear, I'm not intending to minimize the problem that the heat caused= . It was a problem for me too, particularly in 6man. I only chimed in o= n this thread because I really do think that we ought to specify an SLA for= temperature control in _both_ directions when we book our venues. Of cou= rse, promises can easily be broken once it's too late to back out. From ynir@checkpoint.com Sat Aug 3 09:47:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0027921F9BAD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ptyE3-SUwL2F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFEC421F9AD1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r73Glk9H027444; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:47:46 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FD3432-0-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:47:45 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Keith Moore Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHRFyCsQOKQ0+0Y6Xg3SpGkZmBlSKAgAGo8wCAAB6FAIAAJKEA Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:47:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.71] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11d038f6816c8a1f280a6089eb923318a9ec38fca5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FA3FF2D197D44DF7BA28F882EB6774B2checkpointcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , Mary Barnes , Ted Lemon , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:47:57 -0000 --_000_FA3FF2D197D44DF7BA28F882EB6774B2checkpointcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore > wrote: On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in = 6man, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with = temperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms a= re also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should n= ot be lost. I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill due t= o the temperature in the room. I don't entirely blame it on the hotel, as= most rooms were quite comfortable. But lack of AC capacity to sufficient= ly adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting t= o conditions by local laws, are things that should cause us to hesitate to = choose such meeting locations in the future. Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler than Ber= lin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in summer and e= xperienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because this is relat= ively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble anyway. = And the year after that, it's Prague. That's likely significantly warmer t= han Berlin. --_000_FA3FF2D197D44DF7BA28F882EB6774B2checkpointcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0ED76603C6AD154DA0EDE7316C594E2D@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:

So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in 6m= an, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with te= mperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms are= also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should not be lost.

I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill = due to the temperature in the room.   I don't entirely blame it on the= hotel, as most rooms were quite comfortable.   But lack of AC capacit= y to sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting to conditions by local laws, are = things that should cause us to hesitate to choose such meeting locations in= the future.

Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler tha= n Berlin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in summer = and experienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because this= is relatively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble anyway.  And the year after th= at, it's Prague. That's likely significantly warmer than Berlin.



--_000_FA3FF2D197D44DF7BA28F882EB6774B2checkpointcom_-- From scott.brim@gmail.com Sat Aug 3 10:01:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929A421F9F85 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:01:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ob36kmLMKOBH for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x236.google.com (mail-ye0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97C311E80AD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f182.google.com with SMTP id q7so664107yen.13 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:00:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Lp4cLlugVl9zAM7199aO7/jrVslB+SB14bxmphwfxLA=; b=Luy2cuIHvvH5vDAPYTvII+NMJRmHub8YSfvjlozL4f2mNLoI6NVK+/4SXHUWyDvaxb i2NX3rq7Gs0+pH4PZOV6xVT8qaw2FveGHvXCHsCQyP5B7IitWjhJ8jYJWlZQjM6Q1E+Y IT124znXtJt+O2BWDI6SbVmd65d5QlcVAyvv4gaC18mvLZ1blKin4vTI12uoEbg2YlEX Rno8GNCT3yrOAnjvxo4CJfgBX+00uj+ECMcgApmW1We+5E/fw6bIJyC+0I8nzHY6yJzl uFoNCg0UCoZIl2+fypHP9+ofZh6+zA/mgHQB83kuE3UvmAWpfrzhKFk6aVHBbkMFoUzB xjBQ== X-Received: by 10.236.137.142 with SMTP id y14mr7345354yhi.65.1375549254350; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbi2mbp.local ([69.38.252.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y70sm21249135yhe.15.2013.08.03.10.00.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 03 Aug 2013 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FD3744.1@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 13:00:52 -0400 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Gellens References: <51FB85E6.6000406@att.com> <9762ACF04FA26B4388476841256BDE02011AE052B10D@HE111543.emea1.cds.t-int ernal.com> <140407c9b25.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Lou Berger , tony@att.com, N.Leymann@telekom.de Subject: Re: [87attendees] how early do we need to get to Tegel? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:01:01 -0000 On 08/03/13 05:32, Randall Gellens allegedly wrote: > It took less than 15 minutes to get to the airport, even leaving at 5:50 > PM, and it took maybe 3 minutes to get through security. It took us a little longer this morning. The line at gate 15 was about 100 people long. From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Sat Aug 3 10:17:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BAF21F9D21 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:17:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.465, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sr0DavLDSzAE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg20.ericsson.net (sesbmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B63121F9CDC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 10:17:17 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb38-b7f456d000002e83-f4-51fd3b1ada3e Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by sesbmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0C.12.11907.A1B3DF15; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:17:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.135]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:17:14 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Yoav Nir , Keith Moore Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj3MgOC+at4RiEEmdKLhbJ/pcdJmDTsYAgAAehQCAACShAIAAKcV1 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 17:17:14 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3Vlfa+m+gweImLouHTTvZLPbe+s1s MenrOTaLL4c7WC22dsdaTHg9ncnixaleJgd2j8uzrzN57Jx1l91jyZKfTB6TToR5vD4wn9Vj 04duVo+lDbvZA9ijuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDI2HH7FXnBHq+LJ7KVsDYxbVboYOTgkBEwkbs1w 72LkBDLFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwlFHi6rR77BDOYkaJdx3XGEEa2AQsJLr/aYOYIgI+Ej++lIKU MAucZZRobtzCBDJIGGjm/rvXWEBsEQFTidtnlrBB1LtJzH8bDxJmEVCRWLfyPzuIzSvgK/Hp 4RyoVbuYJX69mgnWyyngJDH1VisziM0IdNz3U2vA5jMLiEvcejKfCeJoAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f /2OFqMmXuHN8AxPEAkGJkzOfsExgFJmFpH0WkrJZSMog4joSC3Z/YoOwtSWWLXzNDGOfOfCY CVl8ASP7KkaO4tTipNx0I4NNjMDYPLjlt8UOxst/bQ4xSnOwKInzbtE7EygkkJ5YkpqdmlqQ WhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBMdbipg3n3ZyP01UyCicfz74j9fmRcbjKytJVJirWjnJi24Jmr/6k l8T7prRNRqRPdV0ob5ryigLX8NJdl3rO58+u2z8n9P66czzfZrbur1A6VDufl2mt+Dvvw1uM 58pvTJ75werFcXfbva8NBE5/W32fcdGZ6scdB697mD420mKIL916QCvrkhJLcUaioRZzUXEi AKfNGGWbAgAA Cc: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes , Randall Gellens , Ted Lemon , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:17:23 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drink more water... Regards, Christer Sent from Windows using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com) -----Original Message----- From: Yoav Nir [ynir@checkpoint.com] To: Keith Moore [moore@network-heretics.com] CC: 87attendees@ietf.org [87attendees@ietf.org]; Randall Gellens [rg+ietf@q= ualcomm.com]; Mary Barnes [mary.h.barnes@gmail.com]; Ted Lemon [Ted.Lemon@n= ominum.com]; Samuel Weiler [weiler+ietf@watson.org] Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore > wrote: On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in = 6man, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with = temperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms a= re also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should n= ot be lost. I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill due t= o the temperature in the room. I don't entirely blame it on the hotel, as= most rooms were quite comfortable. But lack of AC capacity to sufficient= ly adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting t= o conditions by local laws, are things that should cause us to hesitate to = choose such meeting locations in the future. Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler than Ber= lin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in summer and e= xperienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because this is relat= ively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble anyway. = And the year after that, it's Prague. That's likely significantly warmer t= han Berlin. --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Drink more water...
 
Regards,
 
Christer
 


Sent from Windows using TouchDown= (www.nitrodesk.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: Yoav Nir [ynir@checkpoint.com]
To: Keith Moore [moore@network-heretics.com]
CC: 87attendees@ietf.org [87attendees@ietf.org]; Randall Gellens [rg= +ietf@qualcomm.com]; Mary Barnes [mary.h.barnes@gmail.com]; Ted Lemon [= Ted.Lemon@nominum.com]; Samuel Weiler [weiler+ietf@watson.org]
Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature?

On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:

On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:

So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in 6m= an, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with te= mperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms are= also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should not be lost.

I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill = due to the temperature in the room.   I don't entirely blame it on the= hotel, as most rooms were quite comfortable.   But lack of AC capacit= y to sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting to conditions by local laws, are = things that should cause us to hesitate to choose such meeting locations in= the future.

Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler tha= n Berlin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in summer = and experienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because this= is relatively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble anyway.  And the year after th= at, it's Prague. That's likely significantly warmer than Berlin.



--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516ESESSMB209erics_-- From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Sat Aug 3 11:12:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D67821F9E3C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.48 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.48 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.119, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V0rpW7lzTwZ8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x234.google.com (mail-vb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0D821F9F52 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f12so1690830vbg.11 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 11:12:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1gbtHj9j+594y22FuMr1+jJSoFJlWzdaz/ZX0a4K1FE=; b=TQwa+rNQNuPlygTvGQzutitWUpUuPXOH1xNxIcc1XeB3G1FbIbzDAmqC2+hHHG78MU 503HNBMz6BsLa+l+evVcnsUEAI6fOOxCwcTuTSB8fbVJkdpkDplhtvYur9McKEw8ffJi SRrGkBcHn34hMjIk2f8VWB2Hrj+CBIzmofrp8V47YtRwvi4y3ofE4ENAF4ezrL4/cyTb AZgGJYpwQle1YEVUXHuZ+Z3nyZ0mP7NhxD8iPFMYQigGgO99Pxyf2NzY433XFcUlhYi9 MvXFyBte28bgrvlTDXDB2lX91LRu3kts4HgqBw1Z5x7a7CNtTX8d2jrYq9pGZn7qzkJe fMSQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.155.99 with SMTP id vv3mr3142507vdb.49.1375553520945; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 11:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 11:12:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 13:12:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160c7bcfc539204e30f02f9 Cc: Samuel Weiler , Yoav Nir , Randall Gellens , Ted Lemon , "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 18:12:04 -0000 --089e0160c7bcfc539204e30f02f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I drink several liters of water daily when it is warm. I went through at least 2 liters in the hot room on Sunday where we were for roughly 4 hours. Water only helps so much. On Saturday, August 3, 2013, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Drink more water... > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > Sent from *Windows* using *TouchDown* (www.nitrodesk.com) > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Yoav Nir [ynir@checkpoint.com 'ynir@checkpoint.com');>] > *To:* Keith Moore [moore@network-heretics.com 'moore@network-heretics.com');>] > *CC:* 87attendees@ietf.org '87attendees@ietf.org');> [87attendees@ietf.org 'cvml', '87attendees@ietf.org');>]; Randall Gellens [rg+ietf@qualcomm.com]; > Mary Barnes [mary.h.barnes@gmail.com 'mary.h.barnes@gmail.com');>]; Ted Lemon [Ted.Lemon@nominum.com]; > Samuel Weiler [weiler+ietf@watson.org 'weiler%2Bietf@watson.org');>] > *Subject:* Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? > > On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore > > wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > > So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in > 6man, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with > temperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms > are also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should > not be lost. > > > I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill due > to the temperature in the room. I don't entirely blame it on the hotel, > as most rooms were quite comfortable. But lack of AC capacity to > sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in > adapting to conditions by local laws, are things that should cause us to > hesitate to choose such meeting locations in the future. > > > Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler than > Berlin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in summer > and experienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because this is > relatively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble > anyway. And the year after that, it's Prague. That's likely significantly > warmer than Berlin. > > > > --089e0160c7bcfc539204e30f02f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=A0drink several liters of water daily when it is=A0warm. =A0I went throug= h at least 2 liters in the hot room on Sunday where we were for roughly 4 h= ours. =A0Water only helps so much.

On Saturday, August = 3, 2013, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Drink more water...
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Christer
=A0


Sent from Windows using TouchDown= (www.nitrodesk.com<= /a>)

-----Original Message-----
From: Yoav Nir [ynir@checkpoint.com]
To: Keith Moore [moore@network-heretics.= com]
CC: 87attendees@ietf.org [87attendees@ietf.org]; Randall Gellens [r= g+ietf@qualcomm.com]; Mary Barnes [mary.h.barn= es@gmail.com]; Ted Lemon [Ted.Lemon@nominum.com<= /a>]; Samuel Weiler [weiler+ietf@watson.org]<= br> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature?

On Aug 3, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:

On Aug 3, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:

So while I definitely would have preferred it if the AC had been higher in 6m= an, and I get the impression that that meeting was not the only one with te= mperature control issues, I think the point that too-cold meeting rooms are= also a problem, even if we can cope with them by adding layers, should not be lost.

I left more than one WG meeting prematurely because I was feeling ill = due to the temperature in the room. =A0 I don't entirely blame it on th= e hotel, as most rooms were quite comfortable. =A0 But lack of AC capacity = to sufficiently adapt to conditions (external heat, crowds), or impairment in adapting to conditions by local laws, are = things that should cause us to hesitate to choose such meeting locations in= the future.

Well, next summer we're in Toronto, and Toronto tends to be cooler= than Berlin, but Toronto also does have heat waves. I've been there in= summer and experienced 3 straight days of 30+ degree weather. And because = this is relatively rare, A/C systems are not prepared for this. So its a gamble anyway. =A0And the year after that,= it's Prague. That's likely significantly warmer than Berlin.



--089e0160c7bcfc539204e30f02f9-- From moore@network-heretics.com Sat Aug 3 12:47:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3222E21E809E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 12:47:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.612 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.612 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AyhYg4XTU5FG for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BB321E809A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 12:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817F420BEE; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 15:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 03 Aug 2013 15:47:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to; s=smtpout; bh=Wd7EfsapRtxibYWjh5O4pMGLD6I=; b=uc uEp/eEI57IDHy8aZyr24W0JnYhtnn4qnbt2CGr/a5n/e4H4e3fwIw2neSqHjztMW dyd/13RkyT2q8ggzwyuqKVwQJSVD4Mq90AC6J31m7eUscT9QNdKd/qT0cQGt/BME ngNFC/z2QGo8ta5qgHz9cfDFyqCjXzwThxMnCkm7A= X-Sasl-enc: cyI1aFFDSuvdmzY7HV6EP+FvIgd3NG8jGFLtx/cnsIV0 1375559246 Received: from surfer-172-29-8-65-hotspot.internet-for-guests.com (unknown [87.193.195.90]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B02316800F1; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 15:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Keith Moore In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:47:22 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> To: Mary Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: Samuel Weiler , Yoav Nir , Randall Gellens , Ted Lemon , Christer Holmberg , "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 19:47:33 -0000 One solution to meeting room temperature that is worth considering: = everyone except meeting chairs, speakers, and jabber scribe leave his or = her laptop off during the meeting. For a typical room population, the = power dissipated by all of the laptops in use in the room surely amounts = to several thousand watts. And with the people in the room paying more = attention to the topic at hand, the meeting would likely be more = productive. Keith From swmike@swm.pp.se Sat Aug 3 13:39:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0498521F9633 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 13:39:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8fyltH47v68p for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 13:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBB021F92B8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 13:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3D0D89C; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 22:38:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306039A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 22:38:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 22:38:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> Message-ID: References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 20:39:03 -0000 On Sat, 3 Aug 2013, Keith Moore wrote: > One solution to meeting room temperature that is worth considering: > everyone except meeting chairs, speakers, and jabber scribe leave his or > her laptop off during the meeting. For a typical room population, the > power dissipated by all of the laptops in use in the room surely amounts > to several thousand watts. And with the people in the room paying more > attention to the topic at hand, the meeting would likely be more > productive. The human body radiates around 100W when at rest (1). Average laptop would be more around 10-20W so the difference isn't going to be that huge. I don't have a figure on productivity increase :P (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoregulation#Human_heat_output_power -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Sat Aug 3 14:06:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9904221F9EF5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.655 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.655 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.722, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rnaJm5FQtGue for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x22b.google.com (mail-vb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8516121E809B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id h11so1756345vbh.16 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:06:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=VA7NOy8HLmXHEzpwKgHlz/iU7Cu+usHNK58X7EJH1mo=; b=uN8AGDoh1aWkMHZ59iKOKv365ReLFBsz1tS9ieP5qsrM2uUl6+hJGKCTy2POacImgV 92PLgXsvULq1dSKTiGJ9Q1g1X/kIhILVHIdoMDvIKCjVomrkZcuHGoa9vagSaAvD7uiI S70b0kZJPiSGmUJ1SprSpE/Q2oH3c780nGyXUnZeHdzHT5oQucv40WAnyO7ibwAYgci5 yZhcGrywOy0jfddg/QMTgK5QpqUl85Kk+CPdi9DSsKytmIm0DQBiRlWOix4CP1bZ3/Zj D6yigUuSDUPzAX2XHbS26LJw8nVHlSED1BlZBu8Zn8ox2aFqrL89WRmXbW+wp+MPKJy/ +u7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.80.132 with SMTP id t4mr3935426vck.57.1375563985879; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:06:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:06:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: David Kessens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a98cabe89ce04e31172b2 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 21:06:28 -0000 --047d7b3a98cabe89ce04e31172b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Blankets or silk long johns are certainly a whole lot cheaper for others that are easily chilled. On Saturday, August 3, 2013, David Kessens wrote: > Mary, > > Mary Barnes wrote: > > We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the mantra > that if you are cold, you can add more layers. > > You might want to invest in an extra cooling layer: > > http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page/fastraceproducts/CTGY/coolsuit > > David Kessens > ---- > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Mary Barnes > > wrote: > >> Feel very lucky that you are comfortable in the heat. I'm in Potsdam 1 >> right now and uncomfortably warm. I'll be in another meeting room this >> afternoon that was sweltering on Sunday. I had to leave the room on Sunday >> to get a cold washcloth from my room to wrap around my neck as I was >> getting light headed and felt I might pass out. I was wearing a short >> sleeve t-shirt and a very light, shorter skirt and sandles. >> >> We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the mantra >> that if you are cold, you can add more layers. If you are too hot, you can >> only take off so many layers. The problem with it being hot inside and >> outside is that if you get overheated, there isn't a place to cool down. >> Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance for being out in >> 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air conditioned house. I >> don't have that option here. >> >> As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be chillier than >> too warm. As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly, I always have >> a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when it's cold. >> Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack that will cool someone >> down. Although, I do have paper, which I used on Sunday as well to try to >> cool down. >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Randall Gellens >> > wrote: >> >>> At 6:25 AM -0400 7/25/13, Samuel Weiler wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Randall Gellens wrote: >>>> >>>> Can anyone comment on what the meeting room temperatures are likely >>>>> to be on average? Being summer, it would be nice to be able to pack light >>>>> and rely on shorts and T-shirts. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Over the last 48 hours or so: the AC in one Intercontinental meeting >>>> room (sorry, limited datapoints) has ranged from adequate to inadequate but >>>> has not been excessive. I think you'll be comfortable in shorts, >>>> especially on Sunday, when the outside temperature is forecast to be 99 (F). >>>> >>>> Past performance and all that. >>>> >>> >>> So far, I've been very comfortable in shorts and sandals, both in >>> sessions and outside walking around. IMHO, this is much nicer than places >>> where the hotter it is outside, the colder they make the meeting rooms (or >>> places where it is cold indoors and out). >>> >>> -- >>> Randall Gellens >>> Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only >>> -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- >>> Never knock the way the other cat swings. >>> --Neal Cassady >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> 87attendees mailing list >>> 87attendees@ietf.org >> '87attendees@ietf.org');> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> > > > > -- > > David Kessens > --- > --047d7b3a98cabe89ce04e31172b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blankets or silk long johns are certainly a whole lot cheaper for others th= at are easily chilled. =A0

On Saturday, August 3, 2013,= David Kessens wrote:
Mary,

Mary Barnes wrote:
&g= t; We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by the mantra th= at if you are cold, you can add more layers.

You might want to= invest in an extra cooling layer:

http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page/fastracepro= ducts/CTGY/coolsuit

David=A0 Kessens
----
=



O= n Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Mary Barnes <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:
Feel very lucky that you ar= e comfortable in the heat. =A0I'm in Potsdam 1 right now and uncomforta= bly warm. =A0I'll be in another meeting room this afternoon that was sw= eltering on Sunday. =A0I had to leave the room on Sunday to get a cold wash= cloth from my room to wrap around my neck as I was getting light headed and= felt I might pass out. =A0 I was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and a very= light, shorter skirt and sandles. =A0

We have this discussion every meeting and I still stand by t= he mantra that if you are cold, you can add more layers. =A0If you are too = hot, you can only take off so many layers. =A0 =A0The problem with it being= hot inside and outside is that if you get overheated, there isn't a pl= ace to cool down. =A0Being from Texas, I know hot and have a high tolerance= for being out in 100+ weather - when I get too hot, I go inside my air con= ditioned house. =A0I don't have that option here. =A0

As always this is totally individual - I much prefer to be c= hillier than too warm. =A0As always, if someone finds themselves too chilly= , I always have a pashmina in my backpack so I can stay warm when it's = cold. =A0Unfortunately, I don't have anything in my backpack that will = cool someone down. =A0Although, I do have paper, which I used on Sunday as = well to try to cool down.=A0

Mary=A0


=


On Thu, Aug 1= , 2013 at 2:43 PM, Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@qualcomm.com> wrote:
At 6:25 AM -0400 7/25/13, Samuel Weiler wrot= e:

=A0On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Randall Gellens wrote:

=A0Can anyone comment on what the meeting room temperatures are likely to b= e on average? =A0Being summer, it would be nice to be able to pack light an= d rely on shorts and T-shirts.

=A0Over the last 48 hours or so: the AC in one Intercontinental meeting roo= m (sorry, limited datapoints) has ranged from adequate to inadequate but ha= s not been excessive. =A0I think you'll be comfortable in shorts, espec= ially on Sunday, when the outside temperature is forecast to be 99 (F).

=A0Past performance and all that.

So far, I've been very comfortable in shorts and sandals, both in sessi= ons and outside walking around. =A0IMHO, this is much nicer than places whe= re the hotter it is outside, the colder they make the meeting rooms (or pla= ces where it is cold indoors and out).<= font color=3D"#888888">

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Never knock the way the other cat swings.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--Neal Cassady
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees


_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=



--

David Kess= ens
---
--047d7b3a98cabe89ce04e31172b2-- From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sat Aug 3 18:33:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CF221F9E51 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BMaSMf1Bf5WW for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2748421F97C7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:33:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375580015; x=1407116015; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=p0T7L007XsjTWkXkkRq6SbD3Ic6sGWyrwlWpnVsm42g=; b=PduMoqkvrMzILSpXF+TQGxi8Jf1KNFqm713tWDNsryVA62Gp/iJ1aBJF MRCwk+JwTtz3OeP94tgky9zGZEYHHto0saVULumiF+ekSxdTnhBPNwQyE rEnfj2tXdNHRfPlMQqS9wO1pVx7lvkU66gCVYrNLGUT24ms8IQ1plxJad o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,810,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66472871" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 18:33:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,809,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="88640887" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Aug 2013 18:33:34 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.17]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r741XYZC032366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:33:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,810,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="525153578" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.188]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 18:33:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3889592F-7BF5-4A16-A559-6450E62B16E7@gmail.com> References: <3889592F-7BF5-4A16-A559-6450E62B16E7@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:30:53 -0700 To: Brian Dickson , Mary Barnes From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , Samuel Weiler Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 01:33:39 -0000 At 3:55 PM +0200 8/3/13, Brian Dickson wrote: > I know personally that I cannot stay awake once 23 C is reached, > and that occurred at least once this IETF (both 23+ C and falling > asleep). Wow -- you can't stay awake at 23C / 73.4F? That's right in what most consider the ideal zone! Is this too warm or too cold for you? If I may ask, how much sleep do you typically get at night? (I'm wondering if you're one the significant percentage of people with chronic sleep deficiency, who often have trouble staying awake in various conditions.) -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- I have learned To spell hors d'oeuvres Which still grates on Some people's n'oeuvres. -- Warren Knox From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sat Aug 3 18:41:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0085021F9ABB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:41:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.880, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xZbtiW+Y9pAH for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A0621F9A10 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:41:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375580484; x=1407116484; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=KYf8fAFePu5qiDrALJYQdTtL4KL3XdQLrt80QRoeaTY=; b=Y+pr1hC5pHzr/9u5N7qBjYHYDJpfM4N9s4LhwndZk/1mbUQLAFtOXuGy 4hIr44ItaWmU3oESF0jKUmuG2yYkR5pM+Q+41ZQvJn3P/+5LGC7QTLoKI RyhGeXzPwEioo5V7zHDQbywowEo+GCHVf/2HXJE9KXubRcD0XojZxxi/w Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,810,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48795527" Received: from ironmsg02-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.16]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 18:41:24 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,810,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="86590803" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Aug 2013 18:41:24 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r741fLWu000417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:41:23 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,809,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="515356825" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.35.200.44]) ([10.64.193.188]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 18:41:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:36:44 -0700 To: Keith Moore , Mary Barnes From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: Samuel Weiler , Yoav Nir , Randall Gellens , Ted Lemon , Christer Holmberg , "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 01:41:29 -0000 At 9:47 PM +0200 8/3/13, Keith Moore wrote: > One solution to meeting room temperature that is worth considering: > everyone except meeting chairs, speakers, and jabber scribe leave > his or her laptop off during the meeting. For a typical room > population, the power dissipated by all of the laptops in use in > the room surely amounts to several thousand watts. And with the > people in the room paying more attention to the topic at hand, the > meeting would likely be more productive. Makes sense. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The very first "flight attendants" were three 14-year old cabin boys, who were hired by Great Britain's Daimler Airways in 1922. Passenger service, rather than safety, was the primary reason these "airborne bellboys" were included on the flight. Food and beverage service was not offered on these first flights. Apparently, the reason for these boys to be in the cabin was more for aesthetics rather than functionality. --airlinesafety.com/editorials/CockpitCabinPsychology.htm From ynir@checkpoint.com Sat Aug 3 19:26:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3860821E8084 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:26:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nBpJfGPMEaJY for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBA511E80D2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 19:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r742QpFq014660; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 05:26:51 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FDBBEB-C-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 05:26:51 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Mikael Abrahamsson Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHRFyCsQOKQ0+0Y6Xg3SpGkZmBlSKAgAGo8wCAAB6FAIAAJKEAgAAIPgCAAA9NAIAAGqUAgAAOaoCAAGEwAA== Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 02:26:49 +0000 Message-ID: <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.73] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11af9759ca7a4335535da122fb9c1c993d3f618008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5CB6EBC65FE1094BBE9EB450363CBEA6@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 02:26:59 -0000 On Aug 3, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Sat, 3 Aug 2013, Keith Moore wrote: >=20 >> One solution to meeting room temperature that is worth considering: ever= yone except meeting chairs, speakers, and jabber scribe leave his or her la= ptop off during the meeting. For a typical room population, the power diss= ipated by all of the laptops in use in the room surely amounts to several t= housand watts. And with the people in the room paying more attention to th= e topic at hand, the meeting would likely be more productive. >=20 > The human body radiates around 100W when at rest (1). Average laptop woul= d be more around 10-20W so the difference isn't going to be that huge. I do= n't have a figure on productivity increase :P Both you and Keith are wrong about what would happen. The entire power-stri= p and email BoF at the back of the room would get up and leave, so we would= save not only their laptops' output, but also their body heat.=20 And with only the people who are really interested remaining in the room, w= e could dispense with the presentations and get some work done. From charliep@computer.org Sun Aug 4 00:25:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFF021F9995 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:25:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xhca6l8JZh6M for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2908321F99A1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [178.197.231.216] (helo=[10.33.57.236]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1V5sgW-0006Jr-Rn; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 03:25:01 -0400 Message-ID: <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 00:24:45 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Nir References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com><0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com><7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se><6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad8603f053561c75a44f076efb6a8e1384e0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 178.197.231.216 Cc: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 07:25:12 -0000 Hello Yoav, If there are meetings with needless presentations, isn't that a matter to be taken up with the chairs? The point below could be taken as derogatory to the many people who have made presentations, as well as the people in the back, some of whom are likely to become contributors to a related future effort. On 8/3/2013 7:26 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > And with only the people who are really interested remaining in the > room, we could dispense with the presentations and get some work done. -- Regards, Charlie P. From charliep@computer.org Sun Aug 4 00:38:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102E021F99A2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:38:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xopEojUi4bIS for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE5B21F8F32 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 00:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [178.197.231.216] (helo=[10.33.57.236]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1V5ssz-0007Tb-FA; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 03:37:53 -0400 Message-ID: <51FE04C2.4070902@computer.org> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 00:37:38 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51FA36E9.4080502@computer.org> In-Reply-To: <51FA36E9.4080502@computer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad86dcf7fa7e2581a1bf7fbeb5c4126eaee3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 178.197.231.216 Cc: Sherry Hagen Subject: Re: [87attendees] Classical guitar tunes at 8:30 tonight somewhere around Potsdam 1 X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 07:38:02 -0000 Hello folks, Thanks to everyone who came to listen while I was playing last Thursday. It was good experience for me, and I appreciate the opportunity for a short-ish but very public performance! Next time I will definitely do #1 of the Gymnopedies as as #2 which became my fallback piece. With a little luck I can include #3 which is somewhat more difficult. Harmoniously, Charlie P. From ynir@checkpoint.com Sun Aug 4 03:16:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D7221F9A72 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:16:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dpTjLaqWIW+K for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6005721F977A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r74AFsnF030875; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:15:54 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {51FE29DA-5-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:15:53 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: "Charles E. Perkins" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHRFyCsQOKQ0+0Y6Xg3SpGkZmBlSKAgAGo8wCAAB6FAIAAJKEAgAAIPgCAAA9NAIAAGqUAgAAOaoCAAGEwAIAAUz+AgAAv0IA= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:15:52 +0000 Message-ID: <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com><0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com><7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se><6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> In-Reply-To: <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.197] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11864dbe304a37ffeca3dd763bfc8c19a31f397cf8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:16:08 -0000 I'm sorry if this has been taken as derogatory. This references multiple th= reads on just that topic that we've seen on the IETF mailing list. Chairs have a very hard time determining consensus in a room with 80 people= , only 7 of whom hum or raise their hand either way. If the tourists had be= tter places to get their email done, we might get a better idea of the true= size of the group, and hence a better idea if the group has consensus. Yoav On Aug 4, 2013, at 10:24 AM, "Charles E. Perkins" wrote: >=20 > Hello Yoav, >=20 > If there are meetings with needless presentations, isn't that a matter > to be taken up with the chairs? >=20 > The point below could be taken as derogatory to the many people > who have made presentations, as well as the people in the back, > some of whom are likely to become contributors to a related future > effort. >=20 > On 8/3/2013 7:26 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> And with only the people who are really interested remaining in the room= , we could dispense with the presentations and get some work done.=20 >=20 > --=20 > Regards, > Charlie P. From keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com Sun Aug 4 03:27:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5EF21F994C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:27:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vtiCF0Z9Tk9l for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com (ihemail2.lucent.com [135.245.0.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA85221F9957 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 03:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by ihemail2.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id r74AQjR5002737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 05:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id r74AQik7025361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:26:44 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.194]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:26:44 +0200 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: Yoav Nir , "Charles E. Perkins" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? Thread-Index: AQHOj2oHRFyCsQOKQ0+0Y6Xg3SpGkZmBlSKAgAGo8wCAAB6FAIAAJKEAgAAIPgCAAA9NAIAAGqUAgAAOaoCAAGEwAIAAUz+AgAAv0ICAADPUoA== Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:26:43 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B07BADC@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com><0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com><7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se><6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.35 Cc: "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:27:03 -0000 If the way you can judge the active support for a draft is to count the num= ber of people in the room, then you are doing the wrong thing. I'd point out that the "tourists" are not necessarily "tourists". They rang= e from people who are popping in to get a feel for what the group is doing,= right through to those who are not contributing but are there in case any = damage limitation is required. As far as I am concerned all are entitled to attend. Regards Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Yoav Nir > Sent: 04 August 2013 11:16 > To: Charles E. Perkins > Cc: 87attendees_ietf.org > Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? >=20 > I'm sorry if this has been taken as derogatory. This references multiple > threads on just that topic that we've seen on the IETF mailing list. >=20 > Chairs have a very hard time determining consensus in a room with 80 > people, only 7 of whom hum or raise their hand either way. If the tourist= s > had better places to get their email done, we might get a better idea of > the true size of the group, and hence a better idea if the group has > consensus. >=20 > Yoav >=20 > On Aug 4, 2013, at 10:24 AM, "Charles E. Perkins" > wrote: >=20 > > > > Hello Yoav, > > > > If there are meetings with needless presentations, isn't that a matter > > to be taken up with the chairs? > > > > The point below could be taken as derogatory to the many people > > who have made presentations, as well as the people in the back, > > some of whom are likely to become contributors to a related future > > effort. > > > > On 8/3/2013 7:26 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > >> And with only the people who are really interested remaining in the > room, we could dispense with the presentations and get some work done. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Charlie P. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From moore@network-heretics.com Sun Aug 4 04:37:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D27721F9A94 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 04:37:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoHbhAr0lPiD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 04:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1EC121F9A74 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 04:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.43]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ADF20B51; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 07:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 07:37:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:message-id:cc:from :subject:date:to; s=smtpout; bh=OP9RZ+a4CcMPTp0oPIUrB4QkD0s=; b= PnSLB7h73Ssgmox4tiPiRwH6+JVThxnMdc30YBqjqvNvSYwuNfmBjMWm62w3shN1 Zv8CLXN7nalGMEqX2hX7moP1Ve0X+GK9Pr78NWWLEdJRNpenpDxBPwJn0zyrTcPi iAncsno1NbWHvYgfVU73zzygkMtJTwWb7ffez0DGiSU= X-Sasl-enc: SnsctLRr1LY9qgu1DKzuiLCaLUPYbN4M3wrP2ullrCli 1375616258 Received: from [192.168.11.15] (unknown [194.182.142.5]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D43366800A6; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 07:37:38 -0400 (EDT) References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B07BADC@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B07BADC@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <2CD84C00-1BA3-4581-9262-3F76120590EE@network-heretics.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Keith Moore Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:37:37 +0200 To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" Cc: "Charles E. Perkins" , "87attendees_ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 11:37:45 -0000 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2013, at 12:26 PM, "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" wrote: > I'd point out that the "tourists" are not necessarily "tourists". They ran= ge from people who are popping in to get a feel for what the group is doing,= right through to those who are not contributing but are there in case any d= amage limitation is required. >=20 > As far as I am concerned all are entitled to attend. I agree, and yet Yoav has a good point. Some people are undoubtedly in the r= oom for no other reason than a place to sit, plug in a laptop, and use the n= etwork. And those people are a distraction from the WG meeting. Keith= From cja@daydream.com Sun Aug 4 08:45:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0DE21F9CAF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qnkPH5U2FzQp for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3E121F9CAD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id jz10so2226698veb.40 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=7e9eO+nOzk2vHMGL5IezdWcIbEmYaO/fGch6TQOkxUQ=; b=nlDYFs7B8VGn7EK7pEwykl1/f41sUCedqT2dH1/ZKNZfgyy3lgseEPCUmuFS4Jgjzy kUI9bzPy2LI+85R0CCYIEcB2y4ImMM4Isj5n8BYhNzyg3cnztehyus/aedFIDgdviCvE YTjtC0Jbr2RUU51XukHFLt1y5ijusHfSeXqWXhdDxGcwqHeSvX0tsKfvaaUVTU6ARWrZ 1h9RLhKyNelYmkeh+qObNkMjl/g2a1uugil8PEjS4dK+54VDeqje//Ay9Gy4YitN3iBN d8k3p5qOgZxE3K0Q1WFNL0S1K27izvCyorL1moMbD5SFheEZXnvtOVNIw4TI6sDJv20B 38Ig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.1.9 with SMTP id 9mr4750419vcd.37.1375631137671; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.98 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [89.246.150.136] Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:45:37 +0200 Message-ID: From: CJ Aronson To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3c4904daf4a04e32115bb X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk/p3csHLfSfjQKYgAKp5Xb4gLhXrJ6LfdIXn0hiF1ygLc+l92OSp3R683OUOdqozGe2HJI Subject: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:45:44 -0000 --001a11c3c4904daf4a04e32115bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Has anyone flown Air Berlin? We have a FlyClassic fare. We are wondering how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? Do I really just have to have one or can I have one and my laptop? It's not entirely clear from their website. Thanks --001a11c3c4904daf4a04e32115bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone flown Air Berlin? =A0We have a FlyClassic fare.= =A0We are wondering how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? =A0 D= o I really just have to have one or can I have one and my laptop? =A0It'= ;s not entirely clear from their website. =A0

Thanks
--001a11c3c4904daf4a04e32115bb-- From cntreras@gmail.com Sun Aug 4 08:49:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CDB121F935A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:49:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ah2bn3ILKZLL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x22a.google.com (mail-ea0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915C821F9C60 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f170.google.com with SMTP id h14so1164888eak.15 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=HBKBdAErHlIfPidOjqo7++9A/taqn+nq0/o+kBE3Yxw=; b=DtzNfE+oni3dITxcneb5Iqd+4I5N5yoNJwsV4ZwgGtwdW0X4p02u7c5NjpdUn+YIYE HjU+JED9KS1WNnvy7eRVISZb4xUy69Saq2wvEi8XMqJcH66pBZ8tpv6vUh48nPLB6ZSQ DWKKlagXaf44nXZkaSlY88Y2r9DBQP5XdFLV8pzg0LVJX7ocVU1+RmtNtsPEq90HMQ2u OTVEa5jAoo41L86KqFR0OJevBzJB5m+F13oImWtTCEIEEHD9vGugB3oj5nAltycCsZZr qOboov3mQvUMnl2ex3KN9OL/znkny56MS6GnZD3/M/U9es9vmN6taRSjnDeWGuy4VKgZ /FMA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.221.198 with SMTP id r46mr13500661eep.18.1375631357574; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.174.66 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:49:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: Jorge Contreras To: CJ Aronson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b66f68169231104e32122c7 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:49:22 -0000 --047d7b66f68169231104e32122c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I flew AirBerlin to and from Chicago. They were pretty relaxed about carry-on baggage. I had a duffel bag plus briefcase/laptop bag, but some other passengers had much larger items. The overhead bins on the plane were quite large, so there were no problems that I observed. On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 10:45 AM, CJ Aronson wrote: > Has anyone flown Air Berlin? We have a FlyClassic fare. We are wondering > how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? Do I really just have to > have one or can I have one and my laptop? It's not entirely clear from > their website. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b66f68169231104e32122c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I flew AirBerlin to and from Chicago. =A0They were pretty = relaxed about carry-on baggage. =A0I had a duffel bag plus briefcase/laptop= bag, but some other passengers had much larger items. =A0The overhead bins= on the plane were quite large, so there were no problems that I observed.<= /div>


On Sun, Aug 4= , 2013 at 10:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja@daydream.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Has anyone flown Air Berlin? =A0We have a FlyClassic fare.= =A0We are wondering how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? =A0 D= o I really just have to have one or can I have one and my laptop? =A0It'= ;s not entirely clear from their website. =A0

Thanks

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=

--047d7b66f68169231104e32122c7-- From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Sun Aug 4 09:15:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4B321F9D0E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.193 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.193 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.406, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RHGfA2G+dPNB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x22f.google.com (mail-qc0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C90121F9CF3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id s11so1239247qcv.34 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=OOxT2nyvLgZ08rKsw+J0fMFAQB453MxD7mRKLv5HiyA=; b=W4j6O7Q2PpYCPQakNU1Pcxmkm3ykLVeI9Gz+3hFN/821xctWSfShIlWixO9HrRoA0V uB1MvvH/lGrRaNZNMILRf53LXJ2gs6beyDqdx3RM/f/n7ve6B2tH3STSh9chENL42R8q 7GDTlxxXYGFx4wbV+nPeP3weeiE4ACVmIpmNYioDR/KfStkM5yUCFleKecWHknQZGcVf XmYTE4rVWp3zarEVIxnxINTPANjbFNxbe04l+y3GVCh1DPFhwQzvjMfm9t5s5OjsItRv 6e6NZclZCeelJ8zXX1lt7tmzLKrmjJ5D1dbj4O6BC/7D4EkTaX70JBJaxME657qcP7/b sEOg== X-Received: by 10.229.58.132 with SMTP id g4mr1048711qch.56.1375632917039; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.86.253.238] (198-135-0-233.cisco.com. [198.135.0.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nh4sm990897qeb.6.2013.08.04.09.15.15 for <87attendees@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 09:15:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <48A56CFD-B201-4C88-AB2A-3DE118CC218D@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:15:13 +0200 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] great GF restaurant X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:15:18 -0000 Stacey, Andrew and I went to "Essen Fassen" Saturday night. Keep it in = mind for GF dining when we come back to Berlin. Fabulous food, = substantial portions and our host (chef? proprietor? waitperson) = absolutely made the evening a delight. On our way to the restaurant, our cabbie told us that "Essen Fassen" is = German military slang for "fast food" (literally, "eat fast"; can = someone confirm?). He suggested we might like a place whose name he = couldn't remember - "white stuff? what you throw away?". Turns out he = meant "White Trash Fast Food: Club, Restaurant and Tattoo Parlor". = Those of you who invited me out clubbing at 1AM last Thursday (and you = know who you are), let's keep it in mind for our next IETF in Berlin... - Ralph From bergmann@tzi.org Sun Aug 4 10:16:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D48521F9B01 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:16:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8bEQNglGxIng for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6A621F8493 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r74HGLgY001904; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 19:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aung.tzi.org (p508A7BA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.138.123.168]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B9446E8; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 19:16:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Olaf Bergmann To: Ralph Droms Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:15:26 +0200 References: <48A56CFD-B201-4C88-AB2A-3DE118CC218D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87ppttbcm5.fsf@tzi.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] great GF restaurant X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:16:31 -0000 Ralph Droms writes: > On our way to the restaurant, our cabbie told us that "Essen Fassen" > is German military slang for "fast food" (literally, "eat fast"; can > someone confirm?). I would translate it as "seize" or "grab" food, including the notion of not being very selective. And yes, it seems to be military slang. Regards Olaf From ali.karimi@ieee.org Sun Aug 4 10:53:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9A721F9D2B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:53:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oHCJLK21ymBr for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-f49.google.com (mail-qe0-f49.google.com [209.85.128.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E404A21F9D39 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 1so1282444qec.8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:53:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=5gI/PUovtHGQeWi/xy5EzW/EF4IsTpJ/9NltJlSO6Rw=; b=UOHyfWgZqqxYK2mvHBLaWy3ZVEZlfOvGdQgNQzV+hyJa62zlQv+IL28zzpJGxAeTz3 T/y3BkVVnurLPelLoHI9ufmYwRok8cbUJ83yWwBzndWlfZF8azn+6LWmImI9Wou8bqcX LHwmm21t7V6HRTcH4pDrcPniEgJDFFZ4QHWI/UyPHCO8rBkC5u+XjndMFn5kyA1PIlmz W2VSHudp8UwBFpQviWzFHx3EU3G8TFl/hZMPC5XFv/HJ2sDTxib+wmb2DUWSMb9plrza k5LKkPfgT4KgKKVQlArPQF1SWAgeWg1T56ZPIVneHSkERMN1JGnSsl/n51zFrnHyY8fg SKrg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.13.131 with SMTP id h3mr2021483qec.3.1375638780789; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.57.201 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:53:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:53:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ali Karimi To: CJ Aronson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6773b0de51e604e322dc7a X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlK5B6/c9ZJPHALlwNxvF/Fxz6AOZ+fZDBulGG1gh+SXmJrOPLsreqlppzNScAx+Zm8gPnL Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:53:06 -0000 --047d7b6773b0de51e604e322dc7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I flew with that airline, I paid for the fare plus I paid extra for for a seat assignment, and got the window seat. When I went to plane, they changed my seat to middle seat. I will stop payment of the seat charges, and will write to Air Berlin CEO regarding this issue. Ali On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:45 AM, CJ Aronson wrote: > Has anyone flown Air Berlin? We have a FlyClassic fare. We are wondering > how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? Do I really just have to > have one or can I have one and my laptop? It's not entirely clear from > their website. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b6773b0de51e604e322dc7a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I flew with that airline, I paid for the fare plus I paid = extra for for a seat assignment, and got the window seat. When I went to pl= ane, they changed my seat to middle seat.

I will stop pa= yment of the seat charges, and will write to Air Berlin CEO regarding this = issue.=A0

Ali


On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja@dayd= ream.com> wrote:
Has anyone flown Air Berlin= ? =A0We have a FlyClassic fare. =A0We are wondering how crazy they are abou= t the limits on carryons? =A0 Do I really just have to have one or can I ha= ve one and my laptop? =A0It's not entirely clear from their website. = =A0

Thanks

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=

--047d7b6773b0de51e604e322dc7a-- From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Sun Aug 4 11:36:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F090B21F9DCB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.986 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.986 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.387, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C15sXo3Lo6+G for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg20.ericsson.net (sesbmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD3D21F9995 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb38-b7f456d000002e83-1d-51fe9f1fc582 Received: from ESESSHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by sesbmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C0.51.11907.F1F9EF15; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:36:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.135]) by ESESSHC008.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.42]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:36:14 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Ali Karimi , CJ Aronson Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Air Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOkSmynksf3cugE0WI0/Y/1RUirZmFMxAAgAAtK6A= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:36:14 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C1F0@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvra78/H+BBju3qlo8bNrJZnFow2JG i03H/rM5MHssnsPn8XTCQSaPJUt+MgUwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBl/PvczFTwl7li1eErjA2M XcxdjJwcEgImEp3b+5kgbDGJC/fWs3UxcnEICRxllHh0YSsjhLOYUeLJv4tAGQ4ONgELie5/ 2iANIgLOEpsXL2QHCTMLGEqs73AHCQsLqErM3bKHBaJETeLJ07OMELaVxPe3d8D2sgioSJxp 7WMFsXkFfCWent3OCrFqOqPE8lnfwBo4BQIl/s6cAVbECHTc91NrwA5lFhCX+HDwOtQDAhJL 9pyHskUlXj7+xwphK0n82HCJBaJeT+LG1ClsELa2xLKFr5khFgtKnJz5hGUCo9gsJGNnIWmZ haRlFpKWBYwsqxg5ilOLk3LTjQw2MQLj5uCW3xY7GC//tTnEKM3BoiTOu0XvTKCQQHpiSWp2 ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGxgd5JaZL63d5J83MFb/Tefryz6r4fmMRZq2SP66L68X6vjiV tProS/K/X7juMcsx1U16/1ms0xbY22ROX/Y/MDiyWVLcvu75CvlfEzv7p38wZ1kp+/mBwKpj Mu3/Cn6d/rjY98MsRWZL7jNV2+MnseSwaeatE793q+Gg+jluiy3Mbuk2S3Y3K7EUZyQaajEX FScCAL0LDg5pAgAA Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:36:23 -0000 > I flew with that airline, I paid for the fare plus I paid extra for for a= seat assignment, and got the window seat. When I went to plane, they chang= ed my seat to middle seat. That happens sometimes, e.g. due to equipment change. You should be able to= get a refund for the seat assignment. > I will stop payment of the seat charges, and will write to Air Berlin CEO= regarding this issue.=A0 It's up to you, but I'd contact their Customer Service Department... Regards, Christer From andy@yumaworks.com Sun Aug 4 11:41:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301D521F8426 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gtYQck6kiInQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-f173.google.com (mail-ye0-f173.google.com [209.85.213.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC5A21F9E6B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f173.google.com with SMTP id m14so959893yen.32 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 11:41:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to:x-gm-message-state; bh=2U7NTR+Mzmryf+mqK+nBDwE6gJR/02rBcjl/NNAe2rE=; b=dbHYokYf8NJuBti9G6/FuSIFWR8nA7J1YbceBeOnouz6F87XpmmW7LL0slXWItwdTA sVU9e9FJIZqA+FtSwb4ZxwAwKCaggCRms/e7UilhhIV1RhsoJ1N6wJqu/s8pNCJY9GdX Ox3kIKiWl4/D/NGI0Any7qaL3YuRgrZ+1kwCYqgPOvcmcOknOrWtgIiYxFgeP/2NQz4o TETVaU1fAWZDbPsKU+wCmICT8BFD7SNxE+XZL8/QyljyeMNFd5oHpLYSLpaRfMhNwazS 5NNNHRy4J2y3rWdfvEtCN9TOmV0afd9bJuS//E6+Le0c5+ZLHCJ6tW/8Rddb3CaKJZ3g +DKg== X-Received: by 10.236.2.5 with SMTP id 5mr9384227yhe.67.1375641712923; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 11:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.171.118.180] (mobile-166-147-103-165.mycingular.net. [166.147.103.165]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a62sm30259417yhk.4.2013.08.04.11.41.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 11:41:52 -0700 (PDT) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-CB608B22-E942-4F2B-A802-D51D749D88B6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Andy Bierman Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:41:46 -0500 To: Ali Karimi X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQndDdyv8YsvfF2NetXlooCLohraB0HRa4FN4kji8YO8AUghGxVWp0lyZ9kOqtQY5h/mnbtE Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, CJ Aronson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:41:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail-CB608B22-E942-4F2B-A802-D51D749D88B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47 Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free.=20 Andy Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2013, at 12:53, Ali Karimi wrote: > I flew with that airline, I paid for the fare plus I paid extra for for a s= eat assignment, and got the window seat. When I went to plane, they changed m= y seat to middle seat. >=20 > I will stop payment of the seat charges, and will write to Air Berlin CEO r= egarding this issue.=20 >=20 > Ali >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:45 AM, CJ Aronson wrote: >> Has anyone flown Air Berlin? We have a FlyClassic fare. We are wonderin= g how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? Do I really just have t= o have one or can I have one and my laptop? It's not entirely clear from th= eir website. =20 >>=20 >> Thanks >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail-CB608B22-E942-4F2B-A802-D51D749D88B6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47
Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free. 

Andy

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2013, at 12:53, Ali Karimi <ali.karimi@ieee.org> wrote:

I flew with that airline, I paid for the fare plus I paid extra for for a seat assignment, and got the window seat. When I went to plane, they changed my seat to middle seat.

I will stop payment of the seat charges, and will write to Air Berlin CEO regarding this issue. 

Ali


On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja@daydream.com> wrote:
Has anyone flown Air Berlin?  We have a FlyClassic fare.  We are wondering how crazy they are about the limits on carryons?   Do I really just have to have one or can I have one and my laptop?  It's not entirely clear from their website.  

Thanks

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
--Apple-Mail-CB608B22-E942-4F2B-A802-D51D749D88B6-- From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Sun Aug 4 11:44:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B9921F9EB5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:44:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.744 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.744 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.504, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SshElk24jIww for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BEA21F9ECA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:44:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f0b6d0000002d5-62-51fea10c281e Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 3E.28.00725.C01AEF15; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:44:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.135]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:44:28 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: CJ Aronson , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Air Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOkSmynksf3cugE0WI0/Y/1RUirZmFYeUg Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:44:27 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C220@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C220ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvrS7Pwn+BBtc6FCweNu1ks9h07D+b A5PH4jl8HkuW/GQKYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgyvjfuYCx4JN5xaJ79g2MJwy7GDk5JARMJB5M WsQIYYtJXLi3nq2LkYtDSOAwo8TWXy9YIJzFjBIP7hxj6mLk4GATsJDo/qcN0iAiECSxsmEL G4gtLKAqMXfLHhaIuJrEk6dnGSFsI4nvt3+CxVkEVCT29LwCs3kFfCVe/LvCBGILCQRI9Lxf zQxicwoESlxfOgOslxHooO+n1oDVMAuIS3w4eJ0Z4lABiSV7zkPZohIvH/9jhbCVJH5suMQC UZ8v8eD5S0aIXYISJ2c+YZnAKDILyahZSMpmISmDiOtJ3Jg6hQ3C1pZYtvA1VL2uxIx/h1iQ xRcwsq9iZM9NzMxJLzfcxAiMm4NbfuvuYDx1TuQQozQHi5I47ya9M4FCAumJJanZqakFqUXx RaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGPUjO/+zbo3dYLirK7/tW89t1r+ZGzZryPywKFa9VT1Pfl35w6P3HMwt 98w7UfI07Gz9isTIR7ulfaUNT/7n9pP7V7YzO23Wuey5Uydsj7c35HSJ/rSa6eJNxRMbe7jd mw7x7DWJO+t+ONWmi/fPp5dvrBW/mE1tutHzpGiDoH7UmarUYpX8cCWW4oxEQy3mouJEAEPI Kd1pAgAA Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:44:55 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C220ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I flew from Helsinki to Berlin with them. I had no issues, and everything w= ent fine, but I only had a small backpack as carry-on, so... According to their website, you can bring one piece of carry-on, AND in add= ition a laptop case (unless you have a JustFly fare). "A single item of hand baggage may not exceed 8kg (10kg with laptop) and di= mensions may not exceed 55cm x 40cm x 20cm. In addition one of the following items (max. 40 cm x 30 cm x 10 cm; 2 kg) m= ay be taken into the cabin free of charge (except JustFly fare): *a laptop case *a lady's handbag, a lady's purse or a gentlemen's handbag" Regards, Christer L=E4hett=E4j=E4: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@i= etf.org] Puolesta CJ Aronson L=E4hetetty: 4. elokuuta 2013 18:46 Vastaanottaja: 87attendees@ietf.org Aihe: [87attendees] Air Berlin Has anyone flown Air Berlin? We have a FlyClassic fare. We are wondering = how crazy they are about the limits on carryons? Do I really just have to= have one or can I have one and my laptop? It's not entirely clear from th= eir website. Thanks --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C220ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I flew fro= m Helsinki to Berlin with them. I had no issues, and everything went fine, = but I only had a small backpack as carry-on, so…

 = ;

According = to their website, you can bring one piece of carry-on, AND in addition a la= ptop case (unless you have a JustFly fare).

 = ;

“A single item of hand baggage may not exceed 8kg = (10kg with laptop) and dimensions may not exceed 55cm x 40cm x 20cm.

 = ;

In addition one of the following items (max. 40 cm x 30 = cm x 10 cm; 2 kg) may be taken into the cabin free of charge (except JustFly fare):

•a laptop case

•a lady’s handbag, a lady= ’s purse or a gentlemen’s handbag”

 = ;

Regards,

 = ;

Christer

 = ;

L=E4hett=E4j=E4: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] Puolesta CJ Aronson
L=E4hetetty: 4. elokuuta 2013 18:46
Vastaanottaja: 87attendees@ietf.org
Aihe: [87attendees] Air Berlin

 

Has anyone flown Air Berlin?  We have a FlyClas= sic fare.  We are wondering how crazy they are about the limits on car= ryons?   Do I really just have to have one or can I have one and my la= ptop?  It's not entirely clear from their website.  

 

Thanks

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C220ESESSMB209erics_-- From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Sun Aug 4 11:46:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF6221F9EB5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.754 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.754 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.494, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o5mzNt9WoYkk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529D821F9E7C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f0b6d0000002d5-c5-51fea173ee5d Received: from ESESSHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0A.38.00725.371AEF15; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:46:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.135]) by ESESSHC008.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.42]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 20:46:09 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Andy Bierman , Ali Karimi Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Air Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOkSmynksf3cugE0WI0/Y/1RUirZmFMxAAgAANoACAACJ24A== Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:46:09 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C239@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> In-Reply-To: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C239ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvrW7xwn+BBtOWC1g8bNrJZnFow2JG iwdHZrFbbDr2n82BxWPxHD6PpxMOMnksWfKTyaOl/yJLAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8bRdVNZ CzpCK3Z37mdsYLwT1MXIySEhYCIxf9IjJghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEIChxklZqy+xgzhLGaU+HHy KlAVBwebgIVE9z9tkAYRAXeJZR9bwJqZBYIkul79ZAWxhQVUJeZu2cMCUaMm8eTpWUaQVhEB J4kbnyNBTBYBFYkT60tAKngFfCVaH7RAbTrHKLHy5GuwVk4BR4mdv9eygdiMQLd9P7UGapW4 xIeD15khbhaQWLLnPJQtKvHy8T9WCFtJ4seGSywQ9fkSR47PZoJYJihxcuYTlgmMorOQjJqF pGwWkrJZQKcyC2hKrN+lD1GiKDGl+yE7hK0h0TpnLjuy+AJG9lWM7LmJmTnp5YabGIFRd3DL b90djKfOiRxilOZgURLn3aR3JlBIID2xJDU7NbUgtSi+qDQntfgQIxMHp1QDo/M+jdwf6be+ rp4d1DTB07lC/J5AwTy9O0pzlQ5OK3zku3j+6rLI9b2n5kae9sgRqhdmzrj90ypoJaNZdvTH jQ+Co5trz39MKFrrdZD7VvfTcx5VNuc9dWecXh2q+yBjxfRXuqsuMPYnOqnafG6el820hklo Q9eJQ3X/kl7HP2d8t1/o4sqyV0osxRmJhlrMRcWJAH/lA+KIAgAA Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, CJ Aronson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:46:20 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C239ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TW9yZSBhbmQgbW9yZSBhaXJsaW5lcyBjaGFyZ2UgZm9yIGFkdmFuY2Ugc2VhdCBhc3NpZ25tZW50 ICh1bmxlc3MgeW91IGhhdmUgZ29vZCBzdGF0dXMpIGluIGVjb25vbXkgY2xhc3PigKYNCg0KUmVn YXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KTMOkaGV0dMOkasOkOiA4N2F0dGVuZGVlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86ODdhdHRlbmRlZXMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gUHVvbGVzdGEgQW5k eSBCaWVybWFuDQpMw6RoZXRldHR5OiA0LiBlbG9rdXV0YSAyMDEzIDIxOjQyDQpWYXN0YWFub3R0 YWphOiBBbGkgS2FyaW1pDQpLb3BpbzogODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IENKIEFyb25zb24N CkFpaGU6IFJlOiBbODdhdHRlbmRlZXNdIEFpciBCZXJsaW4NCg0KSSBndWVzcyBJIHNob3VsZCBm ZWVsIGZvcnR1bmF0ZSBiZWNhdXNlIEkgZ290IG15IGFpc2xlIHNlYXQgLi4gRm9yICQ0Nw0KQW1h emluZyBob3cgdGhleSBtYW5hZ2UgdG8gY2hhcmdlIGZvciB0aGluZ3MgdGhhdCBzaG91bGQgYmUg ZnJlZS4NCg0KQW5keQ0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCk9uIEF1ZyA0LCAyMDEzLCBh dCAxMjo1MywgQWxpIEthcmltaSA8YWxpLmthcmltaUBpZWVlLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86YWxpLmthcmlt aUBpZWVlLm9yZz4+IHdyb3RlOg0KSSBmbGV3IHdpdGggdGhhdCBhaXJsaW5lLCBJIHBhaWQgZm9y IHRoZSBmYXJlIHBsdXMgSSBwYWlkIGV4dHJhIGZvciBmb3IgYSBzZWF0IGFzc2lnbm1lbnQsIGFu ZCBnb3QgdGhlIHdpbmRvdyBzZWF0LiBXaGVuIEkgd2VudCB0byBwbGFuZSwgdGhleSBjaGFuZ2Vk IG15IHNlYXQgdG8gbWlkZGxlIHNlYXQuDQoNCkkgd2lsbCBzdG9wIHBheW1lbnQgb2YgdGhlIHNl YXQgY2hhcmdlcywgYW5kIHdpbGwgd3JpdGUgdG8gQWlyIEJlcmxpbiBDRU8gcmVnYXJkaW5nIHRo aXMgaXNzdWUuDQoNCkFsaQ0KDQpPbiBTdW4sIEF1ZyA0LCAyMDEzIGF0IDg6NDUgQU0sIENKIEFy b25zb24gPGNqYUBkYXlkcmVhbS5jb208bWFpbHRvOmNqYUBkYXlkcmVhbS5jb20+PiB3cm90ZToN CkhhcyBhbnlvbmUgZmxvd24gQWlyIEJlcmxpbj8gIFdlIGhhdmUgYSBGbHlDbGFzc2ljIGZhcmUu ICBXZSBhcmUgd29uZGVyaW5nIGhvdyBjcmF6eSB0aGV5IGFyZSBhYm91dCB0aGUgbGltaXRzIG9u IGNhcnJ5b25zPyAgIERvIEkgcmVhbGx5IGp1c3QgaGF2ZSB0byBoYXZlIG9uZSBvciBjYW4gSSBo YXZlIG9uZSBhbmQgbXkgbGFwdG9wPyAgSXQncyBub3QgZW50aXJlbHkgY2xlYXIgZnJvbSB0aGVp ciB3ZWJzaXRlLg0KDQpUaGFua3MNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlcw0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo4N2F0dGVu ZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzDQo= --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C239ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6dj0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTp2bWwiIHhtbG5zOm89InVy bjpzY2hlbWFzLW1pY3Jvc29mdC1jb206b2ZmaWNlOm9mZmljZSIgeG1sbnM6dz0idXJuOnNjaGVt YXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6d29yZCIgeG1sbnM6bT0iaHR0cDovL3NjaGVtYXMubWlj cm9zb2Z0LmNvbS9vZmZpY2UvMjAwNC8xMi9vbW1sIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcv VFIvUkVDLWh0bWw0MCI+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdlbmVyYXRv ciIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0IFdvcmQgMTQgKGZpbHRlcmVkIG1lZGl1bSkiPg0KPHN0eWxl PjwhLS0NCi8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJ e2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OlRhaG9tYTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDExIDYgNCAzIDUgNCA0IDIgNDt9DQov KiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KcC5Nc29Ob3JtYWwsIGxpLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgZGl2Lk1z b05vcm1hbA0KCXttYXJnaW46MGNtOw0KCW1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDsNCglmb250LXNp emU6MTIuMHB0Ow0KCWZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4iLCJzZXJpZiI7fQ0KYTps aW5rLCBzcGFuLk1zb0h5cGVybGluaw0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7DQoJY29sb3I6 Ymx1ZTsNCgl0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246dW5kZXJsaW5lO30NCmE6dmlzaXRlZCwgc3Bhbi5Nc29I eXBlcmxpbmtGb2xsb3dlZA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7DQoJY29sb3I6cHVycGxl Ow0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5TaGtwb3N0aXR5eWxpMTcNCgl7 bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtcmVwbHk7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLCJz YW5zLXNlcmlmIjsNCgljb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEO30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHls ZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQ7fQ0KQHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rp b24xDQoJe3NpemU6NjEyLjBwdCA3OTIuMHB0Ow0KCW1hcmdpbjo3MC44NXB0IDIuMGNtIDcwLjg1 cHQgMi4wY207fQ0KZGl2LldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtwYWdlOldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMTt9DQotLT48 L3N0eWxlPjwhLS1baWYgZ3RlIG1zbyA5XT48eG1sPg0KPG86c2hhcGVkZWZhdWx0cyB2OmV4dD0i ZWRpdCIgc3BpZG1heD0iMTAyNiIgLz4NCjwveG1sPjwhW2VuZGlmXS0tPjwhLS1baWYgZ3RlIG1z byA5XT48eG1sPg0KPG86c2hhcGVsYXlvdXQgdjpleHQ9ImVkaXQiPg0KPG86aWRtYXAgdjpleHQ9 ImVkaXQiIGRhdGE9IjEiIC8+DQo8L286c2hhcGVsYXlvdXQ+PC94bWw+PCFbZW5kaWZdLS0+DQo8 L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9keSBsYW5nPSJGSSIgbGluaz0iYmx1ZSIgdmxpbms9InB1cnBsZSI+DQo8ZGl2 IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTEuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkm cXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5Nb3JlIGFuZCBtb3Jl IGFpcmxpbmVzIGNoYXJnZSBmb3IgYWR2YW5jZSBzZWF0IGFzc2lnbm1lbnQgKHVubGVzcyB5b3Ug aGF2ZSBnb29kIHN0YXR1cykgaW4gZWNvbm9teSBjbGFzc+KApjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1z aXplOjExLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMtc2Vy aWYmcXVvdDs7Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTEu MHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90 Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5SZWdhcmRzLDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNz PSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjExLjBwdDtm b250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMtc2VyaWYmcXVvdDs7Y29s b3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTEuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0 OTdEIj5DaHJpc3RlcjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi PjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjExLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTom cXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMtc2VyaWYmcXVvdDs7Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+ PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJvcmRlcjpu b25lO2JvcmRlci10b3A6c29saWQgI0I1QzRERiAxLjBwdDtwYWRkaW5nOjMuMHB0IDBjbSAwY20g MGNtIj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAu MHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RhaG9tYSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtzYW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7 Ij5Mw6RoZXR0w6Rqw6Q6PC9zcGFuPjwvYj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdDtm b250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtUYWhvbWEmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90OyI+IDg3 YXR0ZW5kZWVzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzo4N2F0dGVuZGVlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnXQ0KPGI+UHVvbGVzdGEgPC9iPkFuZHkgQmllcm1hbjxicj4NCjxiPkzDpGhldGV0dHk6 PC9iPiA0LiBlbG9rdXV0YSAyMDEzIDIxOjQyPGJyPg0KPGI+VmFzdGFhbm90dGFqYTo8L2I+IEFs aSBLYXJpbWk8YnI+DQo8Yj5Lb3Bpbzo8L2I+IDg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnOyBDSiBBcm9u c29uPGJyPg0KPGI+QWloZTo8L2I+IFJlOiBbODdhdHRlbmRlZXNdIEFpciBCZXJsaW48bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86 cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+SSBndWVzcyBJ IHNob3VsZCBmZWVsIGZvcnR1bmF0ZSBiZWNhdXNlIEkgZ290IG15IGFpc2xlIHNlYXQgLi4gRm9y ICQ0NzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+ QW1hemluZyBob3cgdGhleSBtYW5hZ2UgdG8gY2hhcmdlIGZvciB0aGluZ3MgdGhhdCBzaG91bGQg YmUgZnJlZS4mbmJzcDs8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJN c29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9 Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+QW5keTxicj4NCjxicj4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmU8bzpwPjwvbzpw PjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4t Ym90dG9tOjEyLjBwdCI+PGJyPg0KT24gQXVnIDQsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDEyOjUzLCBBbGkgS2FyaW1p ICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86YWxpLmthcmltaUBpZWVlLm9yZyI+YWxpLmthcmltaUBpZWVl Lm9yZzwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSBz dHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLXRvcDo1LjBwdDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjUuMHB0Ij4NCjxkaXY+DQo8ZGl2 Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+SSBmbGV3IHdpdGggdGhhdCBhaXJsaW5lLCBJIHBhaWQg Zm9yIHRoZSBmYXJlIHBsdXMgSSBwYWlkIGV4dHJhIGZvciBmb3IgYSBzZWF0IGFzc2lnbm1lbnQs IGFuZCBnb3QgdGhlIHdpbmRvdyBzZWF0LiBXaGVuIEkgd2VudCB0byBwbGFuZSwgdGhleSBjaGFu Z2VkIG15IHNlYXQgdG8gbWlkZGxlIHNlYXQuPG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xh c3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBj bGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5JIHdpbGwgc3RvcCBwYXltZW50IG9mIHRoZSBzZWF0IGNoYXJnZXMs IGFuZCB3aWxsIHdyaXRlIHRvIEFpciBCZXJsaW4gQ0VPIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGlzIGlzc3VlLiZu YnNwOzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+ PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs Ij5BbGk8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1z b05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MTIuMHB0Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwv cD4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5PbiBTdW4sIEF1ZyA0LCAyMDEzIGF0IDg6 NDUgQU0sIENKIEFyb25zb24gJmx0OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpjamFAZGF5ZHJlYW0uY29tIiB0 YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+Y2phQGRheWRyZWFtLmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPkhhcyBhbnlvbmUgZmxvd24gQWlyIEJl cmxpbj8gJm5ic3A7V2UgaGF2ZSBhIEZseUNsYXNzaWMgZmFyZS4gJm5ic3A7V2UgYXJlIHdvbmRl cmluZyBob3cgY3JhenkgdGhleSBhcmUgYWJvdXQgdGhlIGxpbWl0cyBvbiBjYXJyeW9ucz8gJm5i c3A7IERvIEkgcmVhbGx5IGp1c3QgaGF2ZSB0byBoYXZlIG9uZSBvciBjYW4gSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBh bmQgbXkgbGFwdG9wPyAmbmJzcDtJdCdzIG5vdCBlbnRpcmVseSBjbGVhciBmcm9tIHRoZWlyIHdl YnNpdGUuDQogJm5ic3A7PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1h bCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj5UaGFua3M8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNv Tm9ybWFsIj48YnI+DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXzxicj4NCjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzo4 N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyI+ODdhdHRlbmRlZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJl Zj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlcyIgdGFy Z2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRl bmRlZXM8L2E+PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxv OnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjxibG9j a3F1b3RlIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tdG9wOjUuMHB0O21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206NS4wcHQiPg0KPGRp dj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0KODdhdHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJl Zj0ibWFpbHRvOjg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzQGlldGYub3JnIj44N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48 YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0 ZW5kZWVzIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVz PC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9k eT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41C239ESESSMB209erics_-- From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sun Aug 4 11:54:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00DC21F9C13 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.925 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_05=-1.11, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tLpVz0cvlmFO for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70FE21F91CB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:54:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375642454; x=1407178454; h=message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:cc:content-type; bh=muUmOk5urpkhlc857IyXlDfhFeoqqrxQRd2IaDb6Ye0=; b=nYjrYHynan5TdKbvZ8i6/8bNiEKcUi2nBwcgPzvUTfI8yqVz111JAUgf 7vD9lhR1wNgPxW0rA/hAWfXtNocakUDw1guDhzAYFOIkEFRWbMG+M1rx7 5J1djht/glG9+tLGR2hPycLvk3/FgU7G0laXmQ8w5O5wvAFHnpM1mG4sI A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48932595" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 11:54:13 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="490414740" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 04 Aug 2013 11:54:13 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.19]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r74IsDWD028942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:54:13 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="490414734" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 11:54:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:39:39 -0700 To: A Gentleman Never Reveals:; From: Randall Gellens Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Tegel Airport X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:54:19 -0000 At 2:36 AM -0700 8/3/13, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 7:29 PM -0400 8/2/13, Lou Berger wrote: > >> I don't thing there was any additional security on transfers... > > At LHR, you do reclear security when transferring. It's a > different security line than when entering from groundside, but the > security itself is identical. > > I'm still waiting for clarification regarding the report of > heightened security on someone's LHR-TXL flight (which airline, > which terminal, if shoes were specifically ordered off or if > everyone just took them off because the person in front did so). Just an update: when I cleared LHR security today it was the same as it ever was: laptops out, liquids out, shoes on. I managed to escape unscathed with nothing confiscated. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- If you attack stupidity you attack an entrenched interest with friends in government and every walk of public life, and you will make small progress against it. --Samuel Marchbanks From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sun Aug 4 11:58:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5E321F9BC3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.762 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.762 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.837, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJA2BQBP4LHP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B4621F9C13 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:58:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375642714; x=1407178714; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=ETRiT2grdLbnlMjwhCl0vsrqe/4FJ7HfHG2/PsaDvHo=; b=U6CEMloV51oa5qIgXLnU1NM/pbExwomnwYwK+rmDnfvZBDzjft2YuiTb n976vSMePi+dkp1ye76DWPP0QT1tUkI65xp2djGy4zkoTaOt6fLqevAVY ZQ7PJUxYRuouMaByla4JKdMd95jkEilEEkoBFcczuOK/UL6IXmhJ2nopu o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="48932707" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 11:58:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="88973768" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 04 Aug 2013 11:58:34 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r74IwX9R029189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:58:33 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="88973763" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 11:58:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:48:36 -0700 To: Andy Bierman , Ali Karimi From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, CJ Aronson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:58:41 -0000 At 1:41 PM -0500 8/4/13, Andy Bierman wrote: > I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47 > Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free. Not amazing (although IMHO it is sad). Airlines are just responding to the market. Airlines tried offering more legroom, better food, pillows and blankets, etc., and while passengers may have enjoyed it, they were unwilling to pay any extra. Most people choose flights based only on fare, possibly also schedule. Hence airlines must compete to offer a fare that is at the top of the screen, and one way to do so is to shift revenue from the fare to "extras." -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- At a dinner party one should eat wisely but not too well, and talk well but not too wisely. --W. Somerset Maugham From cja@daydream.com Sun Aug 4 12:03:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7704221F8887 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:03:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kk16pupIGpF6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f42.google.com (mail-vb0-f42.google.com [209.85.212.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E590221F9FEA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id e12so2146454vbg.1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:03:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=dUBO/l5V6weutaTQReDkNFTFlkDsRZTKTZwE4oEExSo=; b=GCM1ThNPikcYlCoVPivUMF4rFWmYEKFYSUiWqia1I2X0Lh0YOyuRdBou00oc3m1GOU Y5fRgtUlBurlLbqKc5KcXf/63hc43Ac+AmDIkEB094sRFaAyinVwZEeKXNf/VcgyHH41 nzNxI+csigJ1dGBs+jULthNsl2OdlOINlevc2tHAsHwixLw6YfSJjedJADyCMfEnsqpx Ku1pjiwh3UtodnHJ4MN07y9UX6II/JgbibMbj8yH5RlDt0ucn7Ay2PmZyh7RdbnAeah7 /IGlWvHusKARmNeRu1U+7WLQlY8VHw+Jl9+R5M29AcLhnNWbsA9ZOrdsZRQYy/PgZehZ 15Fw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.100.234 with SMTP id fb10mr4946470veb.5.1375643018320; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.98 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:03:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [89.246.150.136] In-Reply-To: References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:03:38 +0200 Message-ID: From: CJ Aronson To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a274671eeb704e323d9bd X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmjwzCUVNHOOAZmb8AfhfDaMfC7CPIct1QenYaDD3OQiolwY7t1/WGAUL+MDkGW/605siBy Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ali Karimi , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:03:45 -0000 --089e013a274671eeb704e323d9bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We have seat assignments (no charge) but I was wondering how strict they were with the carry ons. The website (yes I read it) is very specific and we are just trying to make it as hassle free as possible Thanks for all the feedback! ----Cathy On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 1:41 PM -0500 8/4/13, Andy Bierman wrote: > > I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47 >> Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free. >> > > Not amazing (although IMHO it is sad). Airlines are just responding to > the market. Airlines tried offering more legroom, better food, pillows and > blankets, etc., and while passengers may have enjoyed it, they were > unwilling to pay any extra. Most people choose flights based only on fare, > possibly also schedule. Hence airlines must compete to offer a fare that > is at the top of the screen, and one way to do so is to shift revenue from > the fare to "extras." > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > At a dinner party one should eat wisely but not too well, and talk well > but not too wisely. --W. Somerset Maugham > --089e013a274671eeb704e323d9bd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have seat assignments (no charge) but I was wondering h= ow strict they were with the carry ons. =A0The website (yes I read it) is v= ery specific and we are just trying to make it as hassle free as possible
Thanks for all the feedback!

= ----Cathy


On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Randall Gellens &= lt;rg+ietf@qualco= mm.com> wrote:
At 1:41 PM -0500 8/4/13, A= ndy Bierman wrote:

=A0I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47 =A0Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free.

Not amazing (although IMHO it is sad). =A0Airlines are just responding to t= he market. =A0Airlines tried offering more legroom, better food, pillows an= d blankets, etc., and while passengers may have enjoyed it, they were unwil= ling to pay any extra. =A0Most people choose flights based only on fare, po= ssibly also schedule. =A0Hence airlines must compete to offer a fare that i= s at the top of the screen, and one way to do so is to shift revenue from t= he fare to "extras."

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
At a dinner party one should eat wisely but not too well, and talk well
but not too wisely. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --W. So= merset Maugham

--089e013a274671eeb704e323d9bd-- From moore@network-heretics.com Sun Aug 4 12:30:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D70A11E80D3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:30:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jpSI04znhwyv for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D62421F9EC9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.46]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA6820DBA; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:30:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to; s=smtpout; bh=t0R+QBqle1JZPII0Qy3TrnI85Z4=; b=Ec UhHAm5iB5TuipH/Zry9t+vJjTu/jDa3e0GEmNENnc2SfqNClIc9Hjb+fLPi1YZ73 PtZRWhUxITO8QzD9QfxflxZ71oqTCDR8xW26F6ORiVvmuVq8fNHFn1e76RhQ1hNA QJ+thKvQJuBrGOMF108LoSM4qmUi+9MgdU0z3xR2k= X-Sasl-enc: Pihmbb4d/gPWE8cng1zofpcV9eY9tK6cu9iH+ygsq27R 1375644628 Received: from host-78-65-175-131.homerun.telia.com (unknown [78.65.175.131]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C14AFC00E82; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Keith Moore In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:30:26 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> To: Randall Gellens X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ali Karimi , Andy Bierman , CJ Aronson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:30:35 -0000 On Aug 4, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 1:41 PM -0500 8/4/13, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >> I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For = $47 >> Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free. >=20 > Not amazing (although IMHO it is sad). Airlines are just responding = to the market. Airlines tried offering more legroom, better food, = pillows and blankets, etc., and while passengers may have enjoyed it, = they were unwilling to pay any extra. Most people choose flights based = only on fare, possibly also schedule. Hence airlines must compete to = offer a fare that is at the top of the screen, and one way to do so is = to shift revenue from the fare to "extras." I find the few dollars extra that it costs to get a good seat to be one = of the best ways to make a miserable trip into a tolerable one, and I = rarely mind paying the extra expense. But I also think that if I pay = in advance for a good seat, the airline should not change the assignment = without a good reason; and they should give me a similar seat (including = keeping my preference of aisle vs. window, extra legroom, extra recline, = distance from facing bulkhead, etc.) even if they have to change = equipment. Also, with better search engines, it's becoming more feasible for = customers to choose individual flights based on things like schedule, = equipment type, available seats, layover duration, layover airports, = etc. =20 Keith From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Sun Aug 4 12:59:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1251521F9EC4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kTtyMI-sn0Hq for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdccac.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.202]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF41321F9E1E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36227286057 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=JnpUjQhBux4LbWUBBd3d9KCAzld/Mhevr7QYJWbJb7MQ1AJ7/B2CykR2sJ6u rsIybRT/ukp/YcO2zVtAJoJ+lbTlgNKKUgGgHmb6LK1qAEdqxk+tG6IKOpKQzDSl FEQlfzynjCoOv/a9KjppF+/kJQoc7qxCn0J7RoPcv9JqOSQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=Im0+pLWGCReKPoo0W/p41A4Ihx4=; b=Rkj+m7n+wOhAl 5KDZwvRWEPSRyPCM5PUtv2wD7WwJEFWtZdi/9xS1Z++jW+2QW9xEPOjSkquK+o71 sxpLuIdYqWpGe8p40lxtGkAgHkAew07+IbvZZZmniCGpeDmkXnTNqI9w2hUGcpBC jtSEXKQjXiCDtIjYp8bG7FwZJ63Kag= Received: from spandex.local (66-230-112-156-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [66.230.112.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0818286056 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 12:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FEB2A6.3040007@nomountain.net> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 11:59:34 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077524204F@mbx-01.win.nominum.com><0A3E0BA2-0DF8-44E5-B5B8-8D31082EF32A@network-heretics.com><7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1C41B516@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se><6E4FCD11-3A86-40F5-B70C-36FEBB4928C6@network-heretics.com> <215038E4-A335-419B-82A4-9BD28999CD35@checkpoint.com> <51FE01BD.9020009@computer.org> <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <32B68208-10D6-482F-87D1-BBDD47A9B6CD@checkpoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] Meeting room temperature? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:59:50 -0000 On 8/4/13 2:15 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Chairs have a very hard time determining consensus in a room with 80 > people, only 7 of whom hum or raise their hand either way. If the > tourists had better places to get their email done, we might get a > better idea of the true size of the group, and hence a better idea if > the group has consensus. Deciding which question to ask can be difficult and can lead to messy outcomes. However, that said, usually what you're trying to find out is whether or not someone objects to the proposal on the table, and whether or not any objections raised are substantive. On the other hand, some people may not feel as comfortable raising objections (others are entirely too comfortable ... ), and asking if anybody has objections may not yield a correct outcome, either. In an ideal world consensus would come out of the discussions rather than hums, but it's difficult and I'll be the first to cop to not doing it well, myself. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Sun Aug 4 13:47:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2707611E80F2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.972 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.972 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fIZGpis3e6SY for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x22b.google.com (mail-vb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8AA11E80F1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id h11so2166818vbh.2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:47:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hTZomV9FlHfa5Y6LWpWn+hNwrcqa3wPiEn/pkA1/kFY=; b=T+6banV58/hwPbcuz/o4zg1TFkIKFxDRpbvvGEelZOXVoIEYwVHe20MqBFJalUMpKQ d7dbr+WdiSq/pPYDX9o9aiuyY3qDbkOKEgZrWMdsTSJCE4fBL2JlAZ1S+LkbUf801o/O DjTN3Sjdgp0/wqgxm8Fy/5Esx6YA/X1983bqht1FKGTlQ0tIOOKp6IgrUZp99dPtmbbT gw2qab3lXhk3qv+OZhwXYO2oOb6FPMlFCnPU1y49l2F1AY7Z7SKat05vtl36OUgzvrAt /G+SXLt/aZusN2qYQJT3D94Tc/PVYHdyQ2bScoaWZH0rk9nHxsxK7ck5xbDEklrskPTU mnJw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.200.73 with SMTP id jq9mr4917211vec.53.1375649245144; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.58.137.227 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:47:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 22:47:24 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wIVl66Eusldg6KYTGkvt-IUoLPc Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: CJ Aronson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ali Karimi , Randall Gellens , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:47:26 -0000 > We have seat assignments (no charge) but I was wondering how strict they > were with the carry ons. The website (yes I read it) is very specific and > we are just trying to make it as hassle free as possible Note especially that Air Berlin has *weight* limits, not just size limits, on carry-on baggage. I flew them in June, and my 11 kg carry-on exceeded their 8 kg limit, so they made me check it from JFK to Tegel. They were happy to allow me to carry it on, though, on Tegel-to-Vienna, Vienna-to-Dusseldorf, and Dusseldorf-to-JFK. So, as with all airlines, I think, it depends upon what the specific agent does. Barry From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sun Aug 4 13:50:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2373011E80F0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:50:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.041 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.041 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.558, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FwWi80c-xJFT for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD2611E80F1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:49:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375649399; x=1407185399; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=5yd3LuGtGnNgv8GS/ukfpBDi5tXhJmcI4sbtoS87n0M=; b=CKLkuZkr1HTN3oaE3JGOC26y77e702rctguZl+X0m2tpfxA+K7kkGzWu nDbDckfjYEdAl6znLdft7Glk6arekB9ZxYWeiHSIFG09DSaOtYbUefgIy m7q0ZQic8PAC8dwkuA6CEH5skAXWivUyilD7LnOaczy4XlnAagPcSPDRQ Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66696977" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 13:49:58 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="89007294" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 04 Aug 2013 13:49:58 -0700 Received: from ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com (ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com [172.30.46.16]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r74KnwKp009290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:49:58 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,813,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="89007286" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 13:49:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 13:45:43 -0700 To: Keith Moore From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ali Karimi , Andy Bierman , CJ Aronson Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:50:05 -0000 At 9:30 PM +0200 8/4/13, Keith Moore wrote: > On Aug 4, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > >> At 1:41 PM -0500 8/4/13, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >>> I guess I should feel fortunate because I got my aisle seat .. For $47 >>> Amazing how they manage to charge for things that should be free. >> >> Not amazing (although IMHO it is sad). Airlines are just >> responding to the market. Airlines tried offering more legroom, >> better food, pillows and blankets, etc., and while passengers may >> have enjoyed it, they were unwilling to pay any extra. Most >> people choose flights based only on fare, possibly also schedule. >> Hence airlines must compete to offer a fare that is at the top of >> the screen, and one way to do so is to shift revenue from the fare >> to "extras." > > I find the few dollars extra that it costs to get a good seat to be > one of the best ways to make a miserable trip into a tolerable one, > and I rarely mind paying the extra expense. I try to fly on airlines on which I have upgrade instruments. > But I also think that if I pay in advance for a good seat, the > airline should not change the assignment without a good reason; and > they should give me a similar seat (including keeping my preference > of aisle vs. window, extra legroom, extra recline, distance from > facing bulkhead, etc.) even if they have to change equipment. Of course they should, but the reality is that few airlines have IT systems that have much capabilities in this area. Often, by the time an equipment change or schedule change is made, flights are full enough that is is chaotic trying to accommodate the change. Some airlines have automated reaccommodation systems that can at least handle the basics. A few can maintain upgraded seats and window/aisle, if similar seats are still available (often not the case). > Also, with better search engines, it's becoming more feasible for > customers to choose individual flights based on things like > schedule, equipment type, available seats, layover duration, > layover airports, etc. Yes, search engines and web sites now allow all sorts of things like this. Some web sites rank flights based on all these, plus in-flight entertainment, WiFi, etc. Personally, I usually know the route and equipment I prefer, as well as where I want to sit. But then, my friends consider me very weird for this obsession with such details :-) -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Beware the advice of successful people; they do not seek company. From lear@cisco.com Sun Aug 4 14:19:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0A121F99F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.943 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.943 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.656, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OPCdIHu3d2cZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879FE21F9B86 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=165; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375651133; x=1376860733; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ysI73MCMDiJA5kMx+EQVhoOFypnFaga2r8qrFTSolUg=; b=aPX0dQrwRADuUXhsblhNfKHXcQsVV+P0mD0WTC/vGk9MlKQGTqq3GpoR wL3xnLYHz7gGaZ7xvNvaJrKXPC+jsx5wCLdqffaT6nhcmcDnt5Fm9o2af Mv05hGsLkiWtum+imy2pzBjkNGS4K+/WiqaXW3KLRIhOjdyxIj4HIrg1Y g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgkFANrE/lGQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABagwaEFYh3sw6BGxZ0giUBAQQjVQEQCxoCBRYLAgIJAwIBAgErGgYNAQcBAYgMpEmQYIEojnEHgmaBJwOXYJFPgxk6 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,814,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="157987618" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Aug 2013 21:18:52 +0000 Received: from mctiny.local ([10.61.170.120]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r74LIolj013858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 21:18:50 GMT Message-ID: <51FEC53D.5070108@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 23:18:53 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CJ Aronson References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 21:19:00 -0000 I've flown them a couple of times on this side of the Atlantic and have had very good success with them. I've never done a flight across the Atlantic with them. From david.noveck@emc.com Sun Aug 4 14:19:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA54021F99F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:19:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4on+GJWjuIym for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2600821F9BAB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r74LIjx5007217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:18:45 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd02.lss.emc.com [10.254.221.253]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:18:34 -0400 Received: from mxhub09.corp.emc.com (mxhub09.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.104]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r74LIYYc023633; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:18:34 -0400 Received: from mx31a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.2.162]) by mxhub09.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.104]) with mapi; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:18:34 -0400 From: "Noveck, David" To: Barry Leiba , CJ Aronson Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:18:32 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] Air Berlin Thread-Index: Ac6RU9r4FKr0q6bxTvqFqJbUR1WfmgABAXaA Message-ID: <5DEA8DB993B81040A21CF3CB332489F607B5246B9F@MX31A.corp.emc.com> References: <0DC3273C-86D3-426A-A8E2-7726E5171F36@yumaworks.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ali Karimi , Randall Gellens , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 21:19:01 -0000 I ran into the same weight limit on Lufthansa, flying out of Tegel. -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Barry Leiba Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 4:47 PM To: CJ Aronson Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org; Ali Karimi; Randall Gellens; Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Air Berlin > We have seat assignments (no charge) but I was wondering how strict=20 > they were with the carry ons. The website (yes I read it) is very=20 > specific and we are just trying to make it as hassle free as possible Note especially that Air Berlin has *weight* limits, not just size limits, = on carry-on baggage. I flew them in June, and my 11 kg carry-on exceeded t= heir 8 kg limit, so they made me check it from JFK to Tegel. They were hap= py to allow me to carry it on, though, on Tegel-to-Vienna, Vienna-to-Dussel= dorf, and Dusseldorf-to-JFK. So, as with all airlines, I think, it depends= upon what the specific agent does. Barry _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Aug 5 02:49:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF80721F8528 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 02:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KXYfdE+cP6vQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 02:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3C821F8C0C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 02:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r759mSw2032644 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:48:28 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r759mSw2032644 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1375696108; bh=1CGhPfl+ee0w7tSg8XCwt8hhF6k=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:Mime-Version:References; b=themeX0gLMUv7zl4//gV97Znt2VX2mw/hpnsZyYcRt2qDJ1+BnKmL9no7bD55l/Bp mZ6AW79sxhx9XemrKqy5t/DtiSkjHZQkMYXx4yfXk1auzkiGiqlRnXRbT4d4Kb3tfj CV3cSq3Ofd4z2caSrA+OAisK5wotFq1ldL4wdNfg= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p74AmS0544538890By ret-id none; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:48:28 +0100 Received: from dhcp-205-22.wireless.soton.ac.uk (dhcp-205-22.wireless.soton.ac.uk [152.78.205.22] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r759mPG3022867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:48:25 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:48:25 +0100 To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p74AmS054453889000; tid=p74AmS0544538890By; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r759mSw2032644 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:49:12 -0000 Hi, Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. Indeed = the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that we pretty = much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. Is there any information available on the solution that was delivered? = =46rom memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be interesting to = know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, especially for IPv6, = would be interesting too. If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to = many... Tim= From paitken@cisco.com Mon Aug 5 04:02:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B601321F9E6C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iolwW4GZcNLQ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B6E21F8C93 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:02:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=890; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375700524; x=1376910124; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QnMcrZTZ3e4yC27FK0TedRt/EnAplKaWo9Th3TEzJ8w=; b=HpEBHqUFaUnMk77/griyhhYN+uJxDO43EmjVpqhzxt7mS1e9FDLoEGX8 2vSYm2RiYxePPpm4ggVvl7u3OHBYo7U4+YcH0eW+3N/jVqSdx+Nw89KCn Rh+7MKbAu/CkafbTgyiJX4dDstNQrWwkz6jG6r7RBRLIAMEklMCB8juDU 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAA6F/1GQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABagwY2vE+CdIEfFnSCJAEBAQQnEUABEAsYCRYPCQMCAQIBRRMBBwEBiAy0bZAZBxaDdwOXYIYliyqDGA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,817,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="85471844" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 11:02:03 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r75B20Cd007673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Aug 2013 11:02:01 GMT Received: from [10.61.213.50] ([10.61.213.50]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id r75B1vHw003897; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 12:01:58 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:02:00 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Scott Brim , Melinda Shore , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:02:11 -0000 With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any other minutes. (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) Isn't there a lot of overlap between jabber and etherpad? P. On 01/08/13 19:57, Randall Gellens wrote: > > I do as well. My experience has been that in years past, Jabber > scribers really did try and capture a sense of what was going on, > which was terrifically useful for people trying to follow, but that > since audio has been widespread, Jabber scribers now do little more > than say what the topic is and relay questions/comments from people > via Jabber to the room and do not attempt to capture what is happening > in the room. And I speak as someone who used to volunteer to Jabber > scribe, and always did my best to capture what was happening. > Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are some who still do. From ole@cisco.com Mon Aug 5 04:40:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15E321F9ABB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.201, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OgK67coTtPyC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B721321F940D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:40:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1162; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375702803; x=1376912403; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=VVDuCrYujfForQwntQRTi60ULMzMlhAdz7MTaRXuSDQ=; b=e0I+PWruVwq0zIhpuFUOxPEH+ZrQp8786IyVz5wGHh7rYHFo4xfvwGha xspme8ETPrRxnYG+dL1LhpFNIXpjKHCO3tCZZUFcWZivuW633ojywwXFx 93yJa11BSK/+EHcYyZFKw28JRmNoQxmdv9ceo7+iKZtMthUWHrAj0pX2K w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAKiO/1GrRDoG/2dsb2JhbABXAw6CeDUBv0OBHxZ0giQBAQEDAQEBATc0CwULCw44JzAGExuHbwUNtGOOYYEoEAcRg3wDiSqUW4YGhSSCWV4cgTU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,817,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="85356185" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 11:40:03 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r75Be26Q009581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Aug 2013 11:40:02 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:40:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:40:09 -0000 Check out the NOC report which was referenced (but not delivered) during the plenary on Wednesday. The info you ask for is usually contained therein. Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo On Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > Hi, > > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. > Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that > we pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. > > Is there any information available on the solution that was > delivered? From memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be > interesting to know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, > especially for IPv6, would be interesting too. > > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest > to many... > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From scott.brim@gmail.com Mon Aug 5 04:58:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7868421F9E27 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:58:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8c2zhkgMNU-l for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-x232.google.com (mail-qe0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C134821F9CF8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 04:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f50.google.com with SMTP id q19so1617804qeb.23 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 04:58:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kVEyYjYg1D/UW/X8K+0H+DIG92Y7WG91vnftKUHL3WM=; b=qXeexvrcKdkJ1woYG6gJEYbCiGgSyAikuMYWcpc+T5y6y/wT8bgK6Rt1V9iPa5vdEE ZC04Ln0bL0+yI+uCO1p4ERkFnv89U58kH8MAFoBnDwsv8tYKlxU+QR5s84zSkG5aGVpX /DPQy2AlDK1PlgnLg7zi5DfZ2sMqhqOBDSJv5n5Gi822E+1Rmzl0W/ioJhm4Q8gABNH8 WFrDTyNKWcLdCd9o5NqHH5+YDVvlV4QRhHEkwlLyf8tk2WKSWm7IvLCYKnyPvmWy1Oyu nQkubXDrml8UqbohqAGRoQFULvxd3A3c+nMAC9nKns03BzTTkUN7JgiQTBy/CRjvIbXA 8boA== X-Received: by 10.224.137.4 with SMTP id u4mr6874362qat.69.1375703887239; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 04:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbi2mbp.local (cpe-67-241-75-185.twcny.res.rr.com. [67.241.75.185]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u8sm3350238qey.5.2013.08.05.04.58.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Aug 2013 04:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FF934D.90407@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 07:58:05 -0400 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens , Melinda Shore , Scott Brim Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:58:10 -0000 On 08/05/13 07:02, Paul Aitken allegedly wrote: > With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any > other minutes. (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) Yes. > Isn't there a lot of overlap between jabber and etherpad? Yes. > On 01/08/13 19:57, Randall Gellens wrote: >> I do as well. My experience has been that in years past, Jabber >> scribers really did try and capture a sense of what was going on, >> which was terrifically useful for people trying to follow, but that >> since audio has been widespread, Jabber scribers now do little more >> than say what the topic is and relay questions/comments from people >> via Jabber to the room and do not attempt to capture what is happening >> in the room. And I speak as someone who used to volunteer to Jabber >> scribe, and always did my best to capture what was happening. >> Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are some who still do. From warren@kumari.net Mon Aug 5 05:54:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6160B21F9C00 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 05:54:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vhb8dsluSVou for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 05:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (smtp1.kumari.net [204.194.22.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F9221F9AD8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 05:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.153] (unknown [66.84.81.82]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB7111B411FE; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 08:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:54:53 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Ole Jacobsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown , Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:54:54 -0000 On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: >=20 > Check out the NOC report which was referenced (but not delivered)=20 > during the plenary on Wednesday. Link for easy clickin': = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/slides/slides-87-iesg-opsplenary-7.pptx= W=20 > The info you ask for is usually > contained therein. >=20 > Ole >=20 >=20 > Ole J. Jacobsen > Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal > Cisco Systems > Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 > E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj > Skype: organdemo >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Tim Chown wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. =20 >> Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that=20= >> we pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. >>=20 >> Is there any information available on the solution that was=20 >> delivered? =46rom memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be=20= >> interesting to know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info,=20 >> especially for IPv6, would be interesting too. >>=20 >> If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest=20 >> to many... >>=20 >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 --=20 Never criticize a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then if = he didn't like what you've said, he's a mile away and barefoot.=20 From carlos@lacnic.net Mon Aug 5 06:21:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487A521F9A57 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:21:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.621, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCwhirZV-49A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B075E21F9F77 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:7000:e5de:1d4e:f82a:b86f]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBF9308451; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:21:17 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51FFA6E6.8060608@lacnic.net> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:21:42 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens , Melinda Shore , Scott Brim Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:21:59 -0000 IMO, there is some overlap, but they are different things with different requirements. For instance, there is no need for the minute taker to note each time a slide is advanced, nor comment anything on each slide specifically, but rather the goal should be capturing the high level discussion and note either action items defined, feedback provided on the mic (and jabber) and conclusions (if any). Minutes are drafted in situ but can also be refined afterwards. Jabber on the other side is a real-time thing, you need to note specifically which slide is being presented, a short phrase of what is being said for each one, feedback from the mic including names (always a challenge). Jabber needs to be meaningful only for those following the audio stream and the slides. It's fine for a jabber transcript to look gibberish and completely nonsensical a couple of weeks after the meeting in question. Just like Perl code older than 6 months :D regards Carlos On 8/5/13 8:02 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: > With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any > other minutes. > (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) > > Isn't there a lot of overlap between jabber and etherpad? > > P. > > > On 01/08/13 19:57, Randall Gellens wrote: >> >> I do as well. My experience has been that in years past, Jabber >> scribers really did try and capture a sense of what was going on, >> which was terrifically useful for people trying to follow, but that >> since audio has been widespread, Jabber scribers now do little more >> than say what the topic is and relay questions/comments from people >> via Jabber to the room and do not attempt to capture what is >> happening in the room. And I speak as someone who used to volunteer >> to Jabber scribe, and always did my best to capture what was >> happening. Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are some who still do. > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Aug 5 06:51:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1834921F9E46 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rxu3zJ5ZyOze for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E99521F9E85 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 06:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r75Dojpd007519 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:50:45 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r75Dojpd007519 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1375710645; bh=kTzgy0DrN+4nSGT+Yi3oZkOnqgU=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=WDfGdzszxvZOpMpf0EIqDRIEfeXZIrJJ1JJMTB29ucQwgKRtwBJbMU5uWS5wj+eb7 CFrN91vrsTcS8ALWO9k17bseP5nVm6qUd5bwceBi/nuTnXQD2ujXWLXd4lDauTlKco gG8FisW1uy5tJjvfwAxughcKYXOC+Z25LbO+Z9Sw= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p74Eoj0544542330z9 ret-id none; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:50:45 +0100 Received: from tjc-vpn.ecs.soton.ac.uk (tjc-vpn.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.236.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r75DohmS001205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:50:43 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:50:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <03536ADF-1B88-4805-BB31-8FE5A4E47739@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p74Eoj054454233000; tid=p74Eoj0544542330z9; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r75Dojpd007519 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:51:56 -0000 On 5 Aug 2013, at 13:54, Warren Kumari wrote: > On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: >=20 >> Check out the NOC report which was referenced (but not delivered)=20 >> during the plenary on Wednesday. >=20 > Link for easy clickin': = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/slides/slides-87-iesg-opsplenary-7.pptx= Thanks - that's great! The one interesting thing we did see was some people seeing geo-location = information stretching back more than one meeting. It would be = interesting to see where that information is "tagged", and which = apps/services cache it.=20 Tim= From bob.hinden@gmail.com Mon Aug 5 09:47:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B677821F9F95 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 09:47:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.612 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.612 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z4C4FVjuaKog for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 09:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-x235.google.com (mail-bk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912E321F9FC3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-bk0-f53.google.com with SMTP id d7so1048382bkh.40 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=BK4SVE942CGbJpN1+h7gY/QcdFnIWI8tF5hy3L9+VYA=; b=n+Kg66PYVNLLHtkl3i4DMNsYBClw5U9F8yL0qcvFkiXiaAQIZoUdyIO4fEyR/9XgZa T2WpMl5027HW9OisoSOXG2F0tjspiTTwvpDLIWQ9Qmd3c4arj+0h2FjSs0qd4vFJxgJ+ X8fD1Vd5FtMrof/kaMwoTWAy7KxJwN40dbhihsepnmX3Daj4P8ID/p5RrhMT66h1SM+9 wS3ft66JnmCUIvQSoZIbwytB6Tu/TYTWybCBwVxMQhiIKnEoIMqRrEewD/Asme4t7taa cddus00XR0iWWdhf5RgrAi/ILrYdhPu0/tHgpaG32ftZycNuClrNUwpzgcYFqktNWuqy ZWwQ== X-Received: by 10.205.19.135 with SMTP id qk7mr2892069bkb.139.1375721248670; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.3.58] ([89.246.150.136]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ps10sm5173033bkb.14.2013.08.05.09.47.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 18:47:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5F6CF95B-8C7E-42D4-8C9F-CC1916A3298E@gmail.com> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <03536ADF-1B88-4805-BB31-8FE5A4E47739@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Tim Chown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:47:33 -0000 Tim, > The one interesting thing we did see was some people seeing = geo-location information stretching back more than one meeting. It would = be interesting to see where that information is "tagged", and which = apps/services cache it.=20 >=20 It's too bad we can set it up so the location varies by individual = response to every location where we have had an IETF meeting network! = Sort of like location balancing :-) Bob From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Mon Aug 5 10:27:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3201F0D5A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.681 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.681 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.919, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dU1ClWJrDJpU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAE81F0D58 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375723655; x=1407259655; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=/yFMtbffedZMcbP0XuQAAHOJMDqolybD1gQJ57OEeHg=; b=H2lCxUWprzwEYdygoPfs5qancdyRX0ZwFnTNOnmheL8gDVbQhso7Jirn B7YNHlQdjoQv77clADMsFtZMvcfEVStLTZ+rnoIntw4kKC7Vh5o56hErv E+x05ebJ8PGeQkAcRHIDgJS2KB0jBWVbqUTjmTfzSmQRuIYOv5USg7wTd I=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66850520" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:34 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="525820687" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:34 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.19]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r75HRXTH018033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:33 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="490837773" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:18:51 -0700 To: Paul Aitken , <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: Scott Brim , Melinda Shore , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:27:40 -0000 At 12:02 PM +0100 8/5/13, Paul Aitken wrote: > With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take > any other minutes. > (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) That's the way we did it a few years back, when Jabber scribes were expected to take what were essentially meeting notes. If we were able to have both a Jabber scribe and a note taker, then the chair would use both to produce the uploaded notes. But it seems that now that audio streaming is widely used, Jabber scribes aren't expected to do more than relay questions and maybe note who is talking or when the topic changes. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Do files get embarrassed when they are unzipped? From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Mon Aug 5 10:27:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56AFE1F0D5C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.535, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXoCO30y2fsd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4181F0D4B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1375723657; x=1407259657; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:cc:content-type; bh=uCJgG42dRxCVS1cPH0G4tSGtNJDd7nMJ4JmhpFv/5UU=; b=ycWF9dW5XG/hnE+T/6sXHAeyC5aPPfqo/NiW6J1wtN95ouDXLqgVq6k5 1STc9oyrXmR1tG9WD+Cprj8Mu2qXobO4hbM46N9LXYYrMtatYTuku1Mrh jpmfbxF3AjU40rdyIrnauDbdogJUehUsv1BtXUCEgRT19uYmskbg2tjrt E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="66850526" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:37 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="525820702" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:36 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.19]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r75HRXTI018033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:27:35 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,819,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="490837777" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2013 10:27:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <51FFA6E6.8060608@lacnic.net> References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> <51FFA6E6.8060608@lacnic.net> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:20:44 -0700 To: "Carlos M. Martinez" , Paul Aitken From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens , Melinda Shore , Scott Brim Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:27:42 -0000 At 10:21 AM -0300 8/5/13, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > Jabber needs to be meaningful only for those following the > audio stream and the slides. This is exactly what has changed with the wider availability of audio streaming. It used to be that people could participate in one meeting via Jabber while physically in a second meeting. That's no longer possible. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not. --Mark Twain From cja@daydream.com Mon Aug 5 12:41:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A8F21F9D18 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 12:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oX0-6tiaqMLc for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 12:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f180.google.com (mail-ve0-f180.google.com [209.85.128.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FED21F9CA0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 12:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f180.google.com with SMTP id pb11so3521796veb.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=RykJDrDgJ1NkUKaUmX6YLepbHYaf3rJoKnrwic6riJs=; b=TfgU1Rb1n+homHseVp1HZeKzfAZu5zfSgb3BSducRm6p+BQXJ36D7Sv8hCj/FWRFK5 52ZmTVaD4XplYo4kkZJH6ZLrJiELb8JpMKDaRApsOCF4L+17oi5Fn9oQSFlr3NAXPD8K tRDKaQ5yhJatwIj3QdQHkCH1wJ9vEW+YyRtDs9Zdsgf0HL5dfFvQrmnErCqKWeqr50pm haahiXKrktHIRP425h/nwzcwFDD0ouIVe+gMktE9LHlgLGsSgCfu5ahe2D2E6U+OQtM8 CsWxSfvqSlB6orP1mTJRNkXhA46zKArs7TUV11QWEeACRx1Tgc2fZQGGUsTsX7kIlEZu YfRA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.232.165 with SMTP id tp5mr5253969vdc.11.1375731662541; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.98 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [79.22.210.190] In-Reply-To: References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:41:02 +0200 Message-ID: From: CJ Aronson To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f4800d706e04e3387d9f X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmwDZWmWB6HRZg4La8kSKPly0p9isawoigP8Rt0ZQYzGcop8w+LEcLnoT7Hx/Rs2XHiE1AT Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Scott Brim , Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:41:08 -0000 --089e0122f4800d706e04e3387d9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I never volunteer to jabber scribe because it is impossible for me to know who is talking. I can't see anyone's badges and they say their names so quickly I can almost never make them out. The folks I know are easy but more and more I have no clue who is at the microphone. I also was never sure what exactly was expected of a jabber scribe. ----Cathy On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 12:02 PM +0100 8/5/13, Paul Aitken wrote: > > With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any >> other minutes. >> (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) >> > > That's the way we did it a few years back, when Jabber scribes were > expected to take what were essentially meeting notes. If we were able to > have both a Jabber scribe and a note taker, then the chair would use both > to produce the uploaded notes. > > But it seems that now that audio streaming is widely used, Jabber scribes > aren't expected to do more than relay questions and maybe note who is > talking or when the topic changes. > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Do files get embarrassed when they are unzipped? > > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --089e0122f4800d706e04e3387d9f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I never volunteer to jabber scribe because it is impossibl= e for me to know who is talking. =A0I can't see anyone's badges and= they say their names so quickly I can almost never make them out. =A0The f= olks I know are easy but more and more I have no clue who is at the microph= one. =A0 =A0I also was never sure what exactly was expected of a jabber scr= ibe. =A0

----Cathy


On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@qualcomm.com> wrote:
At 12:02 PM +0100 8/5/13, = Paul Aitken wrote:

=A0With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any= other minutes.
=A0(ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.)

That's the way we did it a few years back, when Jabber scribes were exp= ected to take what were essentially meeting notes. =A0If we were able to ha= ve both a Jabber scribe and a note taker, then the chair would use both to = produce the uploaded notes.

But it seems that now that audio streaming is widely used, Jabber scribes a= ren't expected to do more than relay questions and maybe note who is ta= lking or when the topic changes.

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Do files get embarrassed when they are unzipped?

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--089e0122f4800d706e04e3387d9f-- From brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com Mon Aug 5 13:06:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D809121F90C3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:06:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RtZyoMK529M6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x231.google.com (mail-ob0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD1721F8F4A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id f8so6499870obp.36 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:06:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ibwilv3peoRs/Nk0/Oj2b04qHE5WE3D5KkX5DELTAGw=; b=sz/Y6Yx4eMPgC7+Oh/ikGAo/a59tQmUlGP+ZkBcs7Hue8Lf+XdnzTEbNdcfGnlOLjG Gn9amavcbkSop/Uhz3x2D35j0I8ZlBgCIRGyqdx23Jyg0awtqm7x1QxFA6vRpOLUTgRR AFd5iGfIvhzNIGP1/+No2UEikVlnDYWdoRzDkBDItT+gtrGXkna5baUvJcO64DCeajLg qniVaUurgVz/0ePeQFwRnZwJUSTnAHgj3dg2XgM45QY9pE9lWpKMGZOkSyKWTvZE7G2t gCgIFfzDwHQc2EAZ9PN/mDmnaCFiaf0WKP3KPdgQh3U/QdDatvGWrFADGGn9hS1AKo9W dBOA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.129.68 with SMTP id nu4mr1263111igb.9.1375733168700; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.223.202 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:06:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:06:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: Brian Dickson To: CJ Aronson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b414030d389c204e338d6c3 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Scott Brim , Melinda Shore , Randall Gellens , Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:06:11 -0000 --047d7b414030d389c204e338d6c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 How difficult would it be to combine the following (FTW): (1) Bar codes (or QR codes) on name badges (not sure what is coded now, but they already have bar codes on one side currently) (2) Bar/QR code scanner with text-to-speech (for room) and text-to-jabber (duh) (3) Cut off mic until (2) completes saying the name (encourages folks to facilitate (1) e.g. holding badge to reader) (4) Maybe special self-recorded audio for (2), for those for whom text-to-speech is likely to fail (badly) It is low-tech, but still uses tech to improve meeting mic "protocol". :-) Brian On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:41 PM, CJ Aronson wrote: > I never volunteer to jabber scribe because it is impossible for me to know > who is talking. I can't see anyone's badges and they say their names so > quickly I can almost never make them out. The folks I know are easy but > more and more I have no clue who is at the microphone. I also was never > sure what exactly was expected of a jabber scribe. > > ----Cathy > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > >> At 12:02 PM +0100 8/5/13, Paul Aitken wrote: >> >> With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any >>> other minutes. >>> (ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.) >>> >> >> That's the way we did it a few years back, when Jabber scribes were >> expected to take what were essentially meeting notes. If we were able to >> have both a Jabber scribe and a note taker, then the chair would use both >> to produce the uploaded notes. >> >> But it seems that now that audio streaming is widely used, Jabber scribes >> aren't expected to do more than relay questions and maybe note who is >> talking or when the topic changes. >> >> -- >> Randall Gellens >> Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only >> -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- >> Do files get embarrassed when they are unzipped? >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b414030d389c204e338d6c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How difficult would it be to combine the following (FTW):<= div>
(1) Bar codes (or QR codes) on name badges (not sure wha= t is coded now, but they already have bar codes on one side currently)
(2) Bar/QR code scanner with text-to-speech (for room) and text-to-jab= ber (duh)
(3) Cut off mic until (2) completes saying the name (en= courages folks to facilitate (1) e.g. holding badge to reader)
(4) Maybe special self-recorded audio for (2), for those for whom text-to-s= peech is likely to fail (badly)

It is low-tech, bu= t still uses tech to improve meeting mic "protocol". :-)

Brian


On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:41 PM, CJ Aronson <cja@day= dream.com> wrote:
I never volunteer to jabber= scribe because it is impossible for me to know who is talking. =A0I can= 9;t see anyone's badges and they say their names so quickly I can almos= t never make them out. =A0The folks I know are easy but more and more I hav= e no clue who is at the microphone. =A0 =A0I also was never sure what exact= ly was expected of a jabber scribe. =A0

----Cathy


On Mon, Aug = 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@qualcomm.com> wrote:
At 12:02 PM +0100 8/5/13, Paul Aitken w= rote:

=A0With sufficient jabber content, it wouldn't be necessary to take any= other minutes.
=A0(ie, the minute taker could just type into jabber.)

That's the way we did it a few years back, when Jabber scribes were exp= ected to take what were essentially meeting notes. =A0If we were able to ha= ve both a Jabber scribe and a note taker, then the chair would use both to = produce the uploaded notes.

But it seems that now that audio streaming is widely used, Jabber scribes a= ren't expected to do more than relay questions and maybe note who is ta= lking or when the topic changes.

--
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal; =A0 =A0facts are suspect; =A0 =A0I speak for myself = only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Do files get embarrassed when they are unzipped?
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees


_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=

--047d7b414030d389c204e338d6c3-- From rpelletier@isoc.org Mon Aug 5 13:24:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E0821F9371 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:24:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ejIYjxz2esZ5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp105.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp105.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A1321F9ECA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp6.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DDE5C980D2; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:24:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp6.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id A5AA6981D4; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:24:34 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <66063568-4B70-4F73-9816-192613C6742A@isoc.org> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Tim Chown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:24:38 -0000 On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. = Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that we = pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. >=20 > Is there any information available on the solution that was delivered? = =46rom memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be interesting = to know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, especially for = IPv6, would be interesting too. >=20 > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to = many... The NOC report is at the Proceedings already: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/87/materials.html Ray >=20 > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From johnl@taugh.com Mon Aug 5 13:51:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E22E21F967F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:51:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zS193kDHQZXa for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EF021F9E0D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 13:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25163 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2013 20:51:08 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=624a.5200103c.k1308; bh=DVVKEAlTyqXoFgYATYDWYGMiYvmsWI7ScRrgZR/ZYDg=; b=rs2VE8M1ZMYj66J8ZXqpJ4ScU2inopUDUo+1i5mPEGJou9K2NuJ9FjsbDcB5U1WMJvVpTEiSm1lG+4giAxqDVezdxdQexvHU7ob+q4SOwqC6BrVMHZaGKOThEQnxh5rzamgFVS0RaSNz8yGP/mK1KTnPGVNDB21zdrHUeFGxI0d//lJsMUOLb119q1FBr/W84y2n8cgKMeq2S7u8S46FEtH10JSVMvJzWYl2olN4pUjuxlGDf71FrKg9LmqdghQx DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=624a.5200103c.k1308; bh=DVVKEAlTyqXoFgYATYDWYGMiYvmsWI7ScRrgZR/ZYDg=; b=Jr9mehM5dzdvNuSi+pW/CopUkPj0I836WbfLfNnqdb3cjaRxm8Wmx6xtKjtXnYvJHnbqZFkJnk+Ua2fNJQVKvZORpRh7siDo+KLXU7z+KL18yUfCAhKF0K/au6alQhcZFTo3TdgIIt8Am/xdk1IMe8y4w/cDIj7DEfJzsLJ/S7RBQ+USbtsh7lQZ1mx/vKfI4d+aV1yylpCblDDMWdY0yHWS7echGKhlqUhqTqpbD7q/mAH9cXxBfVONBsTlKzfY Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 5 Aug 2013 20:50:46 -0000 Date: 5 Aug 2013 16:51:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Brian Dickson" In-Reply-To: References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; BOUNDARY="3825401791-1888869308-1375735868=:18218" Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:51:18 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-1888869308-1375735868=:18218 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > How difficult would it be to combine the following (FTW): > > (1) Bar codes (or QR codes) on name badges (not sure what is coded now, but > they already have bar codes on one side currently) > (2) Bar/QR code scanner with text-to-speech (for room) and text-to-jabber > (duh) > (3) Cut off mic until (2) completes saying the name (encourages folks to > facilitate (1) e.g. holding badge to reader) > (4) Maybe special self-recorded audio for (2), for those for whom > text-to-speech is likely to fail (badly) Sounds like kind of a fun thing to whip up with a raspberry pi, plus a camera, a way to splice the sound into the audio feed (remember that many of the mikes are wireless), and a wifi adapter. Oh, and some sort of remote management so it talks to the right jabber room. I wouldn't worry about (4), in the worst case send it to Google Translate and click the read aloud button which does a remarkably good job on Chinese. It's certainly something that could be assembled from off the shelf parts, but it'd be a challenge to debug, build enough of them to put one by each mike, and then deploy and manage. Perhaps we could just have a social convention that two claps or something means "please say who you are more clearly". Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. --3825401791-1888869308-1375735868=:18218 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIIJCQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIII+jCCCPYCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqG SIb3DQEHAaCCBjowggY2MIIFHqADAgECAgMGLywwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQTAeFw0xMzAzMTYxOTQ0MDdaFw0xNDAzMTgxMjI4MzVaMFUxGTAX BgNVBA0TEHFaMXRuOTBuMkdVODZzemYxGDAWBgNVBAMMD2pvaG5sQHRhdWdo LmNvbTEeMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYPam9obmxAdGF1Z2guY29tMIIBIjANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAve/4NFMbuvtD6QSuXAoYQ0SkaO9s DiNHA4saJNV0OIXd6dtM87w7OETKWWVq24Ab6vQaYh218oCF1GDdLv6EiRB8 oL1k9sK2v70iAVT83vEnmaj6/hQVcBI6mZJH6LXyCgYSP2e5yBQqJu+hgLte bdg7kOKW2tb937jDn9KYRVFIlEU0/iu/b/Buwq3ahg2BsG3vg92Zk+Dv5VON QDLE8x8wdi1cor7qBY/RERw4O3LXo3644OU0t6KS3aQxLrXEvWZHHvLhsAu1 BjYbC+qdSddDT1t+adEnZq9/wMhNGhPWCd/uFDZanSpyM913b7eI1Q2aNgA0 cccjEgBsp8IipwIDAQABo4IC1TCCAtEwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMC BLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSL djRDW8NpGZJjlhjZ0SLge0hCvjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6W NU7y1LhRgjAaBgNVHREEEzARgQ9qb2hubEB0YXVnaC5jb20wggFMBgNVHSAE ggFDMIIBPzCCATsGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIDMIIBKjAuBggrBgEFBQcCARYiaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vcG9saWN5LnBkZjCB9wYIKwYBBQUHAgIw geowJxYgU3RhcnRDb20gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkwAwIBARqB vlRoaXMgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgd2FzIGlzc3VlZCBhY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gdGhl IENsYXNzIDEgVmFsaWRhdGlvbiByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgb2YgdGhlIFN0YXJ0 Q29tIENBIHBvbGljeSwgcmVsaWFuY2Ugb25seSBmb3IgdGhlIGludGVuZGVk IHB1cnBvc2UgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVseWluZyBwYXJ0eSBv YmxpZ2F0aW9ucy4wNgYDVR0fBC8wLTAroCmgJ4YlaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFy dHNzbC5jb20vY3J0dTEtY3JsLmNybDCBjgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEgYEwfzA5Bggr BgEFBQcwAYYtaHR0cDovL29jc3Auc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3N1Yi9jbGFzczEv Y2xpZW50L2NhMEIGCCsGAQUFBzAChjZodHRwOi8vYWlhLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNv bS9jZXJ0cy9zdWIuY2xhc3MxLmNsaWVudC5jYS5jcnQwIwYDVR0SBBwwGoYY aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCM pgcOpxRJazPzEBYnhGENuQqzXeLyA3a8XL7YaxaAJwV7ucDVkyQHu35PUEkh vVgIKnxq6N9WxHiO6GK/imdwS3LrUBbs+0v+95m6YhJv6ZfvAHTyTLqrozXU ohR5NRFeL0p1OfK1llnl/I71Fe/JNgxJHDn1puzsFoJD3zYCKgNdST3FPNIb 2v/xIiubuB85tiJSWUlc56OkCdBK3ZgBnwYV8LxFmpOlwedaHC6sxIk1rsuX BHbRIJwLFy2LqVtNm0M5NzBVyPQf72lPn/aaJLbqY5DDm4/lSy94R+CKXabE 6lWan7xmbqdDDlMxGbpMRWV2Cxi5ONp4uNgNcwI6MYIClzCCApMCAQEwgZQw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQQIDBi8sMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCggdgwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqG SIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwODA1MjA1MTA4WjAjBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQQxFgQUdeXuFQds7vg1458K+kcQK9R0URIweQYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMWww ajALBglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEWMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggq hkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4D AgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAJjvGMEjXpwuC P4XeMpZXE3NyQcHdQXm2O4BN07aV1T50uF1QWWQRet4nSlw8Huyufa25haV5 cLajdOOamkaqclfZfNiX8Blfho9qSZuI0cuESeNoMxbBsR60j1HnNMRjsl1K qupi4+ftcCkyJwrUiDIw8lUMiIlFjB0FTLsZLa0ah2jHXp1ojFRyeUvuhiiS 6x46kxVc5Ymw7W/ZTySA09q9MmKWRohRo8SVuGtXInBYWJwyVl42NRwpWLwc kkBWGNv5sCkxjj6wZUeKSfm0s7wJNBDDq5zIdOZGhah1KJna6Gea2VEg5BPY V7HRlJSl34TzuO1SOlCsVKXuFCotcA== --3825401791-1888869308-1375735868=:18218-- From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Aug 5 16:07:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B9621F9E36 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:07:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQa8zc3XT+OG for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0261A21F9DF1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r75N7SJp008625 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 00:07:28 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r75N7SJp008625 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1375744048; bh=lTBYMXJ2C1uDEeimQqiYf8X+zqU=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=4x7zomwkivsi+fpyG9FLU5mY6zG3d8AH0w/ycrTt6JMVsZh4Nv/6YOpKF382TZwXA ep9U0I5tBIA5rPTYYhs7GG9J2u6XlBssOkU1jv2lu6FXXT34NJZtWdPcVymaSeGPPs 4tzAIfDaLU0BAWC3il+J8h1zxE2AKxHmNAhYeUEc= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7507S0544547042z9 ret-id none; Tue, 06 Aug 2013 00:07:28 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r75N6A4A013716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Aug 2013 00:06:10 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 00:06:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> <89983860-411A-43DC-B5EA-BBB30B262D41@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7507S054454704200; tid=p7507S0544547042z9; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r75N7SJp008625 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:07:36 -0000 On 5 Aug 2013, at 21:51, "John R Levine" wrote: >> How difficult would it be to combine the following (FTW): >>=20 >> (1) Bar codes (or QR codes) on name badges (not sure what is coded = now, but >> they already have bar codes on one side currently) >> (2) Bar/QR code scanner with text-to-speech (for room) and = text-to-jabber >> (duh) >> (3) Cut off mic until (2) completes saying the name (encourages folks = to >> facilitate (1) e.g. holding badge to reader) >> (4) Maybe special self-recorded audio for (2), for those for whom >> text-to-speech is likely to fail (badly) >=20 > Sounds like kind of a fun thing to whip up with a raspberry pi, plus a = camera, a way to splice the sound into the audio feed (remember that = many of the mikes are wireless), and a wifi adapter. Oh, and some sort = of remote management so it talks to the right jabber room. I wouldn't = worry about (4), in the worst case send it to Google Translate and click = the read aloud button which does a remarkably good job on Chinese. Having had some of our students do QR code recognition on a pi with a = standard webcam the drawback is that it may take a few seconds for the = recognition to happen/be acknowledged, so it might slow things up unless = the speaker just held their badge to the camera while also acting as = normal (the name going to jabber perhaps). > It's certainly something that could be assembled from off the shelf = parts, but it'd be a challenge to debug, build enough of them to put one = by each mike, and then deploy and manage. I suspect the problem would be mounting the device on the mic, given the = mic isn't exactly a firm mounting point. > Perhaps we could just have a social convention that two claps or = something means "please say who you are more clearly". It would be simpler if people just spoke their name slowly and clearly = :) Tim= From brian.rosen@neustar.biz Wed Aug 7 13:14:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F1A21F9DA1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 13:14:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.292, BAYES_40=-0.185, MIME_BAD_LINEBREAK=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WlzOiBmwaMFX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 13:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neustar.com (mx2.neustar.com [156.154.25.104]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FAD21F9D68 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 13:14:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=neustar.biz; s=neustarbiz; t=1375906377; x=1691260463; q=dns/txt; h=From:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Language: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=32goJRke8pomjMdGE3YRp TMz392d6cVxgkDBO9eOaus=; b=IMkGmv3pSk9/aPm2Uo4Rcx7Wzwsz/086gN9SM pXK57CXYBLYG6qVb8cYJ3OLAPZPfgFhrtabHk7Hn6sLc6XS3Q== Received: from ([10.31.58.69]) by chihiron1.nc.neustar.com with ESMTP with TLS id J041123128.22191883; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:12:56 -0400 Received: from stntexmb12.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.2.190]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.231]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:14:12 -0400 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'87attendees@ietf.org'" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Recommended IOS app for jabber Thread-Index: Ac6Tqq5tyQftHW34RJW8YuXX8ad2Tg== Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 20:14:12 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.31.15.96] x-ems-proccessed: R64IxjzeHPwwd+efoj3ZcA== x-ems-stamp: JWU2FHliFG5m3p1KEtI69A== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [87attendees] Recommended IOS app for jabber X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 20:14:47 -0000 SSdtIGluIHRoZSBtYXJrZXQgZm9yIGEgYmV0dGVyIGFwcCBmb3IgdXNpbmcgaW4gdGhlIElFVEYg amFiYmVyIHJvb21zIG9uIG15IGlQYWQuICBXaGF0IHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBkbyB5b3UgaGF2 ZT8gIEkgdHJpZWQgYSBjb3VwbGUgYW5kIGRpZG4ndCBsaWtlIGFueSBvZiB0aGVtLgoKQnJpYW4K Cg0NU2VudCB3aXRoIEdvb2QgKHd3dy5nb29kLmNvbSkK From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Wed Aug 7 15:20:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F166611E814D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.969 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.969 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jMWRNJbcFng for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x231.google.com (mail-vb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0DA11E815C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id w16so2455660vbb.22 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:20:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=f5jnhqMLUnlS/c9kH+UpXTvnrJW/75WhGLpjf6yL0xU=; b=X6JST5lJwVYiqQLTPGaUjPff+pwUM7rRflb8dArtTwDlfXnyn9aVGlYXsJiZXmgzSN V4x8Q1yO0w89P/lsTbHsPZBrH3Y/Gjr2BP9Z3PxDH1GqcMFQHlR9rylPMRLaCBnMkvjP DKAaw8hP5KfUFZgT2afojlDUifKAXolGdKDSIOOERuJRdsJ9R4kxYDlQZcNyH0zLv2pe XKsmzQlfTDh3Hey48jVHbeIw3aBOQ9nq0MqmmUy4iblj5E/XCw7SYmptcW6eJQwwygtj IsbqFOxQMTrLrb1vl4ilW/xc1XnQzlKUKHLYl07QrsOBX3qYIn15l63hBsDSJisn/uGA 1kYA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.244.78 with SMTP id xe14mr1398939vdc.30.1375914005803; Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.58.137.227 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:20:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:20:05 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: L0GmtggKXB-VwfhTbptQ5ln6nPM Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: "Rosen, Brian" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Recommended IOS app for jabber X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:20:07 -0000 > I'm in the market for a better app for using in the IETF jabber rooms on my > iPad. What recommendations do you have? I tried a couple and didn't like > any of them. If you tell us what you don't like about them and what you'd prefer, perhaps we can make more directed suggestions and comparisons, apart from just saying what we use. The only app I've found that supports the chat rooms well is Talkonaut, so that's what I use. What others have you found? Apps such as IM+ don't seem to support chat rooms in jabber. The main problem with any chat app is that iOS limits what the app is allowed to do in the background, and how long it can do it, so if you're also trying to take notes, look at slides, check email, and/or look at a draft or RFC, you will time out and get logged off. Talkonaut is good about logging back in, but it's annoying to bounce in and out of the chat rooms. I'm hoping that iOS 7 will fix that.... Barry From swmike@swm.pp.se Wed Aug 7 22:57:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025B811E80DF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BXSYolr9w1Sz for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E52A21F9C06 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 22:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id D56BA9C; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA1D9A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:57:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:57:28 -0000 On Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Warren Kumari wrote: > > On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > >> >> Check out the NOC report which was referenced (but not delivered) >> during the plenary on Wednesday. > > Link for easy clickin': http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/slides/slides-87-iesg-opsplenary-7.pptx Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF" and the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From stefan.winter@restena.lu Wed Aug 7 23:36:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CC611E81A6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:35:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.512 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.087, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 35piCdMGrm6P for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AFA11E80F3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0D71058D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFC5C1058B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:35:33 +0200 From: Stefan Winter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Nma20L5LfpQP396scwXG6s3CjKoxeoAVE" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:36:02 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Nma20L5LfpQP396scwXG6s3CjKoxeoAVE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides eduroam, which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't verify yours". The Max numbers in the NOC report are the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted connections. Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so really great, but still quite a significant portion. > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF" and > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may well talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM who can decrypt and snoop out your traffic. The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit of being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. Neither the open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information page, actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the auth server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when connecting= =2E There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and EAP settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. Greetings, Stefan Winter --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et de la Recherche 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi L-1359 Luxembourg Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 --Nma20L5LfpQP396scwXG6s3CjKoxeoAVE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIDPDkACgkQ+jm90f8eFWYx8ACggfPUA6cUvOdV3R2JZe02RjXv AJwAnjHFeiC93VrCM8fKN7gE7x1ngNvG =Gkpn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Nma20L5LfpQP396scwXG6s3CjKoxeoAVE-- From swmike@swm.pp.se Wed Aug 7 23:42:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6742911E8111 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:42:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.424 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.424 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.825, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nf3VZMMAtNS5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530C711E810D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id F03F19C; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:42:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E912B9A; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:42:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:42:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Stefan Winter In-Reply-To: <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:42:27 -0000 On Thu, 8 Aug 2013, Stefan Winter wrote: > Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may well > talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM who can > decrypt and snoop out your traffic. Absolutely, but that's harder than just setting your wifi card in promisc mode and listening to all the traffic. On these kinds of events I usually connect to encrypted network that might be available, and then try to send as much traffic as possible through ssh tunnel. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From cabo@tzi.org Thu Aug 8 02:34:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DEFC11E8115 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:34:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bFApYfmWz0mO for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475A121F8267 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r789YZ29019057 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:34:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.105] (p5489221B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.34.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8BE60CFF; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:34:35 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:34:35 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:34:49 -0000 On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter = wrote: > The IETF also provides eduroam And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. (Finally, a feature where the IETF is providing *better* service to the = academics than to everyone else...) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten PS.: The eduroam number also provide a nice estimate of the number of = academics attending. Of course, there may be a couple people who laboriously configure the = WiFi for IETF before noticing they already had been connected, and there = may still be a few academics coming from eduroam-challenged = institutions. But overall, this is a nice indicator. From garmitage@swin.edu.au Thu Aug 8 02:46:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C6611E81CA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZDGDSjvg5014 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gpo1.cc.swin.edu.au (gpo1.cc.swin.edu.au [136.186.1.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D043D11E80EE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.186.229.37] (garmitage.caia.swin.edu.au [136.186.229.37]) by gpo1.cc.swin.edu.au (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r789kea9032302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:46:43 +1000 Message-ID: <52036900.1@swin.edu.au> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:46:40 +1000 From: grenville armitage User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121107 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:46:51 -0000 On 08/08/2013 19:34, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter wrote: > >> The IETF also provides eduroam > > And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. +1 (When I flipped open my laptop on the first day it automagically associated with eduroam. I initially thought this was some delayed holdover from when I'd last used WiFi at my home university. But lo and behold, eduroam in the IC was real, and worked well all week!) cheers, gja From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Thu Aug 8 03:56:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471C721F8DDD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 03:56:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxsumzEW3yrD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 03:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315A521F8E85 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 03:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r78AuM8S021298; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:56:22 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r78AuM8S021298 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1375959382; bh=UbZHBD8nJdXaysqL4g3xsB7aZvg=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=SaMaATGjfW2+VdlMlA+ROllY6ZobnKlPRuWon2Z84U777XCngHaBWzPriCTb1tOEh BE2yh+NWwKbtgux5ePE8aYkDsKVmMGxahA45j7BcbIRoyaHo2+qjpvLB8drsMTUzlL 4SHBPGwE6aKH4UBPs9ooJuA5/w1bAipbgFe80ALs= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p77BuM0544512348wd ret-id none; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:56:22 +0100 Received: from dhcp-205-82.wireless.soton.ac.uk (dhcp-205-82.wireless.soton.ac.uk [152.78.205.82]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r78AuKCd015096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:56:21 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: <52036900.1@swin.edu.au> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:56:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> <52036900.1@swin.edu.au> <1D2EEB11-7226-44EB-8B59-A170B7067220@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: grenville armitage X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p77BuM054451234800; tid=p77BuM0544512348wd; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=2:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r78AuM8S021298 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:56:35 -0000 On 8 Aug 2013, at 10:46, grenville armitage = wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 08/08/2013 19:34, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter = wrote: >>=20 >>> The IETF also provides eduroam >>=20 >> And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. >=20 > +1 >=20 > (When I flipped open my laptop on the first day it automagically = associated with eduroam. I initially thought this was some delayed = holdover from when I'd last used WiFi at my home university. But lo and = behold, eduroam in the IC was real, and worked well all week!) eduroam's been at the IETF a while. Very welcome! Tim= From klaas@wierenga.net Thu Aug 8 04:10:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2CD21F964C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.435 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.435 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.233, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73yqcZbzT3pP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out49-ams.mf.surf.net (out49-ams.mf.surf.net [145.0.1.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80A921F9635 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teletubbie.het.net.je (teletubbie.het.net.je [192.87.110.29]) by outgoing2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id r78BANJX012516; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:10:23 +0200 Received: from 5355139f.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([83.85.19.159] helo=[192.168.2.127]) by teletubbie.het.net.je with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1V7O62-0009uR-9y; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:09:34 +0200 References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8F73B5B4-2F76-4EF3-A73F-A0ECAF72E478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2CAB68EB-B450-4295-92AE-9C9857E0248B@wierenga.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: Klaas Wierenga Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:10:25 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann X-Antivirus: no malware found X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=192.87.110.29; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: p-out:default (inherits from p:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0vKabanyv - f54f865cb441 - 20130808 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:10:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail-8F73B5B4-2F76-4EF3-A73F-A0ECAF72E478 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten, all, On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:34, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter wrote: >=20 >> The IETF also provides eduroam >=20 > And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. > (Finally, a feature where the IETF is providing *better* service to the ac= ademics than to everyone else...) If I am not mistaken, kudos go to Stefan Winter, the SURFnet team that made i= t happen at the IETF in Maastricht and IETFs own team that on top of their b= usy schedule took the time to enable eduroam at the venue as well. Klaas P.S. now that we are on the subject of eduroam, can I invite you all to have= a look at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wierenga-ietf-eduroam/ and= give us your comments= --Apple-Mail-8F73B5B4-2F76-4EF3-A73F-A0ECAF72E478 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carsten, all,


On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:34, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu> wrote:

The IETF also provides eduroam

And tons of kudos go to whoever= started this.
(Finally, a feature where the IETF is providi= ng *better* service to the academics than to everyone else...)

If I am not mistaken, kudos go to Stefan Winter, th= e SURFnet team that made it happen at the IETF in Maastricht and IETFs own t= eam that on top of their busy schedule took the time to enable eduroam at th= e venue as well.

Klaas

P.S= . now that we are on the subject of eduroam, can I invite you all to have a l= ook at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wierenga-i= etf-eduroam/ and give us your comments
= --Apple-Mail-8F73B5B4-2F76-4EF3-A73F-A0ECAF72E478-- From chelliot@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 04:27:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C87F11E8103 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:27:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8I4BIpbW6eD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x229.google.com (mail-lb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4FE21E808E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f169.google.com with SMTP id u10so2343907lbi.14 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:27:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=12JuQmdjiMbHX4ulViU5ouPGAw5o6sN+RY1iYoC5hV0=; b=XXMzVy5fIEq0Owoh9XK3kpdvDZ3+nOSBxcnADP9zTL7UcsOeC0aMLAX8iHppzOxsAg 52IdVODyiHSjMNGhYA8DySYjCPsy5C8I8bU2iMCPAALHQ+welUfJ/KSR0iLaILObf5sy jF7uo9nak/GYskkpz8Z4OCXtTM1TUkIBOhuCDuw3Do4PLVT0dr2taiK5FvpqjYBaDzNf LgfihwT99zlxU6ZEz3TQR/R88wPFw5mzLwe4mIsq1yPuB+Nt/jNwhLh+mV7082CRomPh YXbaE36bofU0e82KhmMR+0oWD3r4Qg7h5xdH/TTd373oRxaq+UL4s/bQu3Gztw1uNZEY qJuw== X-Received: by 10.152.45.5 with SMTP id i5mr3477299lam.32.1375961259894; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:27:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> <1D2EEB11-7226-44EB-8B59-A170B7067220@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52036900.1@swin.edu.au> From: Chris Elliott Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:27:19 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: iMh9Z-PROvUU2LmBBgLbDrQlKX0 Message-ID: To: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1b6961eec5c04e36df295 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, grenville armitage Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:27:43 -0000 --001a11c1b6961eec5c04e36df295 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All, The eduroam ssid and associated authentication back end has been provided at the IETF since IETF 78 in Maastricht. Paul Dekkers of SURFnet first approached us with the idea of supporting this authentication system at IETF meetings (thanks Geert Jan de Groot for bringing this to us!). Many of the core network volunteer team offered suggestions and insights into how to best support this. The eduroam folks that have most recently been involved include Stefan Winter and Dubravko Penezic. Currently, Karen O'Donoghue is our main contact with the eduroam folks as well as with Radiator (our authentication server), Bjoern Zeeb handles the authentication server side of things, and I maintain the AP and switch configs. Some of the interesting challenges we've encountered include authentication timeouts as the eduroam Radius server "tree" is extensive and can result in many Radius proxies before reaching the end (authoritative?) authentication server. We're using a couple of techniques to improve reliability and security and speed up authentication: Radius to the eduroam servers via TLS/TCP, and supporting DNSRoam to shorten authentication times. Thanks for the kind words. It's a pleasure to be able to help provide a service that just works (most of the time!) Chris. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > > On 8 Aug 2013, at 10:46, grenville armitage wrote: > > > > > > > On 08/08/2013 19:34, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter > wrote: > >> > >>> The IETF also provides eduroam > >> > >> And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. > > > > +1 > > > > (When I flipped open my laptop on the first day it automagically > associated with eduroam. I initially thought this was some delayed holdover > from when I'd last used WiFi at my home university. But lo and behold, > eduroam in the IC was real, and worked well all week!) > > eduroam's been at the IETF a while. Very welcome! > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --001a11c1b6961eec5c04e36df295 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,

The eduroam ssid and associated au= thentication back end has been provided at the IETF since IETF 78 in=A0Maastricht.=A0Paul Dekkers of SURFnet first approached us with the = idea of supporting this authentication system at IETF meetings (thanks=A0Geert Jan de Groot for bringing this = to us!).= Many of the core network volunteer team offered suggestions and insights i= nto how to best support this. The eduroam folks that have most recently bee= n involved include=A0Stefan Winter and=A0Dubravko Penezic. Currently, Karen O'Donoghue is our m= ain contact with the eduroam folks as well as with Radiator (our authentica= tion server), Bjoern Zeeb handles the authentication server side of things,= and I maintain the AP and switch configs.

Som= e of the interesting challenges we've encountered include authenticatio= n timeouts as the eduroam Radius server "tree" is extensive and c= an result in many Radius proxies before reaching the end (authoritative?) a= uthentication server. We're using a couple of techniques to improve rel= iability and security and speed up authentication: Radius=A0to the eduroam servers = via TLS/TCP, and supporting=A0DNSRoam=A0to shorten authentication times.<= /div>

Tha= nks for the kind words. It's a pleasure to be able to help provide a se= rvice that just works (most of the time!)

Chr= is.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

On 8 Aug 2013, at 10:46, grenville armitage <garmitage@swin.edu.au> wrote:

>
>
> On 08/08/2013 19:34, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu> wrote:
>>
>>> The IETF also provides eduroam
>>
>> And tons of kudos go to whoever started this.
>
> +1
>
> (When I flipped open my laptop on the first day it automagically assoc= iated with eduroam. I initially thought this was some delayed holdover from= when I'd last used WiFi at my home university. But lo and behold, edur= oam in the IC was real, and worked well all week!)

eduroam's been at the IETF a while. =A0Very welcome!

Tim
_____________________= __________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees



--
= Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com
--001a11c1b6961eec5c04e36df295-- From chelliot@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 04:47:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2875111E8123 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:47:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YjtFSJYfkOhR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x233.google.com (mail-lb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0129511E8100 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id v1so2326370lbd.38 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:47:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=N2TSb5VSKRLTxmLKN883B+J1nIE4nulLBHWb9owYlv0=; b=Rjc40M2fC7pFaVKoEORVDMx+/fFYYWFPhWNy0uB8P575CjlURwzrsn7eppwgsy1BVC eKBKlbDpVuqpn0xLSG9I92K5zxPIfNy5FyoeP1hzjZHXcVlqi1MkieIrwsh9jcDg2yTg zCpb/j8RiDmvNX/mfqaTv+RuTjc6T2gp5Q+J+9d7+cOFWHtB5mYCm3SJiYjbvnbZf5TG rBDQv4NyiarRPDhfB/LAvvtn6m7o8kXAI+4l+ZUSNAs/5iFAcZ4001NpXFCdhZpHT8U0 ldidQ8InRtWAAEnRUCUFoDRAOXojGlQDq2l4FtgwjQkg/fMTuUPq5b//61XTdfpSHHAi mhiw== X-Received: by 10.112.55.65 with SMTP id q1mr2185152lbp.15.1375962423595; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:47:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:46:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> From: Chris Elliott Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:46:43 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: U097K9Bk5qHdd1DigRoKkKU8dSY Message-ID: To: Stefan Winter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3ee8e7b98ca04e36e37c0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:47:07 -0000 --001a11c3ee8e7b98ca04e36e37c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, The cert we are using for the IETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not including eduroam) is from the same CA that is providing the certs for the rest of the IETF (including web, email, dnssec, and more, I believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification Authority) is in most or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate store. Which means most 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supply. It's up to the user to not un-check the "Check server cert" box! Our thought was that that was sufficient. However, we certainly can look into doing as you suggest and publishing more information. Of course, the page we post this to will probably also be verified by this same CA... ;-) Chris. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter wro= te: > Hi, > > > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. > > Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides eduroam, > which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server > certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't verify > yours". > > The Max numbers in the NOC report are > > the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 > the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 > > Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted connections. > > Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so really > great, but still quite a significant portion. > > > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF" and > > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". > > Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may well > talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM who can > decrypt and snoop out your traffic. > > The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more > people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit of > being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. Neither the > open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. > > The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information page, > actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the auth > server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This > allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when connecting= . > > There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and EAP > settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. > > Greetings, > > Stefan Winter > > > > > -- > Stefan WINTER > Ingenieur de Recherche > Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et > de la Recherche > 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi > L-1359 Luxembourg > > Tel: +352 424409 1 > Fax: +352 422473 > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --=20 Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --001a11c3ee8e7b98ca04e36e37c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stefan,

The cert we are using for the I= ETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not including eduroam) is from the same= CA that is providing the certs for the rest of the IETF (including web, em= ail, dnssec, and more, I believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification = Authority) is in most or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate stor= e. Which means most 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supp= ly. It's up to the user to not un-check the "Check server cert&quo= t; box! Our thought was that that was sufficient.

However, we certainly can look into doing as you sugges= t and publishing more information. Of course, the page we post this to will= probably also be verified by this same CA... ;-)

Chris.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@r= estena.lu> wrote:
Hi,

> Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi.

Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides edur= oam,
which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server
certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won'= ;t verify
yours".

The Max numbers in the NOC report are

the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89
the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91

Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted connections.

Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so really great, but still quite a significant portion.

> A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF= " and
> the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED".

Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may well=
talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM who can decrypt and snoop out your traffic.

The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more
people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit of
being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. Neither the open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that.

The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information page,
actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the auth
server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This
allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when connecti= ng.

There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and EAP
settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science.

Greetings,

Stefan Winter




--
Stefan WINTER
Ingenieur de Recherche
Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Nation= ale et
de la Recherche
6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
L-1359 Luxembourg

Tel: +352 424409 = 1
Fax: +352 422473

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=



--
Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com
--001a11c3ee8e7b98ca04e36e37c0-- From stefan.winter@restena.lu Thu Aug 8 05:10:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD0621F9D0D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:10:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.362, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AvehU6rA6kJ3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54B821E8083 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59E81058D; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:10:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C611B1058C; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:10:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <52038ABF.5010201@restena.lu> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:10:39 +0200 From: Stefan Winter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chelliot@pobox.com References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GB7Mn3Uwrg8uAF6Vxkiw8qtrH9kbuG9Xo" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:10:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --GB7Mn3Uwrg8uAF6Vxkiw8qtrH9kbuG9Xo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > The cert we are using for the IETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not > including eduroam) is from the same CA that is providing the certs for > the rest of the IETF (including web, email, dnssec, and more, I > believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification Authority) is in most= > or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate store. Which means mos= t > 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supply. It's up to > the user to not un-check the "Check server cert" box! Our thought was > that that was sufficient. No! This is a common misconception. The "browser trust" and EAP trust are different, and it is insignificant if the CA used is in the browser trust store or not. It may save you the step of installing the PEM file itself, sure, but the crucial part is that you need to be able to tell your EAP supplicant on the device that the expected server cert comes from *exactly one* CA. Further to this, contrary to the web browser case, you need to manually configure which server name to expect; in the browser, this is explicitly input by the user in his URL bar - but no equivalent of that exists for EAP. We have fought for years to get that into our Identity Providers' heads. Our official eduroam documentation has an extensive section about all the concepts and nits to consider: https://confluence.terena.org/display/H2eduroam/EAP+Server+Certificate+co= nsiderations If you don't pin the exact CA *and* server name in config, you make yourself susceptible to MitM attacks still: - if you trust all CAs in the "browser trust" store: the MitM gets himself an arbitrary certificate from any CA in the trust store and uses it for his fraudulent EAP server - your EAP supplicant would trust it, even if it has nothing to do with your EAP server. - if you don't verify the name (but the exact CA): the MitM tries to connect to the genuine network once, sees which CA is expected, goes to the same CA and gets himself a certificate for an unrelated name (to which he is entitled to by say having a corresponding domain name). He sets up a fraudulent EAP server with that certificate - your EAP supplicant will accept it even if he does the extra step of verifying the CA. > However, we certainly can look into doing as you suggest and publishing= > more information. Of course, the page we post this to will probably als= o > be verified by this same CA... ;-) That's the default CA bootstrap problem. You can put the CA's fingerprint in a text file, and PGP-sign the file with IETF brass PGP keys if you like :-) In eduroam, we *require* IdPs to "publish all information needed to uniquely identify the authentication server"; and we even have an automated provisioning tool which sets up supplicants with all the correct and secure settings - including the CA installation. It works everywhere except on Karen O'Donoghue's Mac. ;-) Greetings, Stefan Winter >=20 > Chris. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter > wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. >=20 > Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides eduroa= m, > which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server > certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't ve= rify > yours". >=20 > The Max numbers in the NOC report are >=20 > the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 > the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 >=20 > Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted connectio= ns. >=20 > Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so real= ly > great, but still quite a significant portion. >=20 > > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF= " and > > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". >=20 > Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may we= ll > talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM wh= o can > decrypt and snoop out your traffic. >=20 > The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more= > people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit= of > being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. Neithe= r the > open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. >=20 > The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information pa= ge, > actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the a= uth > server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This= > allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when > connecting. >=20 > There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and= EAP > settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. >=20 > Greetings, >=20 > Stefan Winter >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Stefan WINTER > Ingenieur de Recherche > Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Na= tionale et > de la Recherche > 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi > L-1359 Luxembourg >=20 > Tel: +352 424409 1 > Fax: +352 422473 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Chris Elliott > chelliot@pobox.com --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et de la Recherche 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi L-1359 Luxembourg Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 --GB7Mn3Uwrg8uAF6Vxkiw8qtrH9kbuG9Xo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIDisMACgkQ+jm90f8eFWbrrwCfV+cBC4z9NbyTqGhtwalbVk6e kOYAnjLUnTEo6eXkK3HtX/sgCPno9Q+y =OzzX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GB7Mn3Uwrg8uAF6Vxkiw8qtrH9kbuG9Xo-- From chelliot@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 05:44:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311F821E80AE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HI4xFkR9mDqR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x231.google.com (mail-la0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDDB521E80A5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f49.google.com with SMTP id ev20so2042892lab.36 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:44:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hgtYTkzReGMHV6IDDUjqFs5AKoPS5AJ+gSks/28aZ3Y=; b=vAzgV57VtF0IleMgOUvhWOKyAY9LPva0KMwp6AAIBPSVCmH7TZHBtH4AE630RgNuz0 pUME1PX1Mh644U4+qKICKM1giy6gcU+ioNnKE63i24IGOMe6RVVHI8sgAAw5savZ64Ea HC7Trtwebsp+MOnBZQleHyogrTeCVtQZ2lBSLZdp6VwiGhzKETbik5b+qeWx+9fCs78v Px8H8oaysBTmhEjPW6PZcpK0CA1nuXw4Ypt+1WBdMJ8B2yizTR3RR2acc+HDbcIzpXiX cTTSel/RqRzpa6hzk/lG7uQIES2629JC6qWpp8meiFXU5X1LMKyzP+OVnmQgxSRbgJBy IBiQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.57.49 with SMTP id f17mr2353791lbq.26.1375965857721; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:44:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <52038ABF.5010201@restena.lu> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> <52038ABF.5010201@restena.lu> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 08:44:17 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -0y4imvrNSPxgR0UmOJh0Ujpqnw Message-ID: From: Chris Elliott To: Stefan Winter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133eaca2c33f604e36f04b0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:44:22 -0000 --001a1133eaca2c33f604e36f04b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, Thanks for your feedback. Note that we have little control over attendee's client configs, unlike universities or companies. However, we can certainly provide more information and automated tools like the eduroam community does. As none of us are as expert in this field, doing it part time three times a year on a volunteer basis, we may need further expert advise. The eduroam docs are great, but if we need more we'll contact you. We'll follow up with you on this once the VMs are spun up at their between meetings home and I'm back from vacation--early to mid September. Chris. On Thursday, August 8, 2013, Stefan Winter wrote: > Hi, > > > The cert we are using for the IETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not > > including eduroam) is from the same CA that is providing the certs for > > the rest of the IETF (including web, email, dnssec, and more, I > > believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification Authority) is in most > > or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate store. Which means mos= t > > 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supply. It's up to > > the user to not un-check the "Check server cert" box! Our thought was > > that that was sufficient. > > No! This is a common misconception. The "browser trust" and EAP trust > are different, and it is insignificant if the CA used is in the browser > trust store or not. > > It may save you the step of installing the PEM file itself, sure, but > the crucial part is that you need to be able to tell your EAP supplicant > on the device that the expected server cert comes from *exactly one* CA. > > Further to this, contrary to the web browser case, you need to manually > configure which server name to expect; in the browser, this is > explicitly input by the user in his URL bar - but no equivalent of that > exists for EAP. > > We have fought for years to get that into our Identity Providers' heads. > Our official eduroam documentation has an extensive section about all > the concepts and nits to consider: > > > https://confluence.terena.org/display/H2eduroam/EAP+Server+Certificate+co= nsiderations > > If you don't pin the exact CA *and* server name in config, you make > yourself susceptible to MitM attacks still: > > - if you trust all CAs in the "browser trust" store: the MitM gets > himself an arbitrary certificate from any CA in the trust store and uses > it for his fraudulent EAP server - your EAP supplicant would trust it, > even if it has nothing to do with your EAP server. > > - if you don't verify the name (but the exact CA): the MitM tries to > connect to the genuine network once, sees which CA is expected, goes to > the same CA and gets himself a certificate for an unrelated name (to > which he is entitled to by say having a corresponding domain name). He > sets up a fraudulent EAP server with that certificate - your EAP > supplicant will accept it even if he does the extra step of verifying > the CA. > > > However, we certainly can look into doing as you suggest and publishing > > more information. Of course, the page we post this to will probably als= o > > be verified by this same CA... ;-) > > That's the default CA bootstrap problem. You can put the CA's > fingerprint in a text file, and PGP-sign the file with IETF brass PGP > keys if you like :-) > > In eduroam, we *require* IdPs to "publish all information needed to > uniquely identify the authentication server"; and we even have an > automated provisioning tool which sets up supplicants with all the > correct and secure settings - including the CA installation. > > It works everywhere except on Karen O'Donoghue's Mac. ;-) > > Greetings, > > Stefan Winter > > > > > Chris. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter > > >> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. > > > > Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides eduroa= m, > > which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server > > certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't > verify > > yours". > > > > The Max numbers in the NOC report are > > > > the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 > > the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 > > > > Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted > connections. > > > > Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so real= ly > > great, but still quite a significant portion. > > > > > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi "IETF= " > and > > > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". > > > > Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may we= ll > > talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM wh= o > can > > decrypt and snoop out your traffic. > > > > The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more > > people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit > of > > being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. Neithe= r > the > > open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. > > > > The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information > page, > > actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the > auth > > server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This > > allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when > > connecting. > > > > There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and > EAP > > settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. > > > > Greetings, > > > > Stefan Winter > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Stefan WINTER > > Ingenieur de Recherche > > Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Na= tionale > et > > de la Recherche > > 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi > > L-1359 Luxembourg > > > > Tel: +352 424409 1 > > Fax: +352 422473 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 87attendees mailing list > > 87attendees@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chris Elliott > > chelliot@pobox.com > > > > > -- > Stefan WINTER > Ingenieur de Recherche > Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et > de la Recherche > 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi > L-1359 Luxembourg > > Tel: +352 424409 1 > Fax: +352 422473 > > --=20 Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --001a1133eaca2c33f604e36f04b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan,

Thanks for your feedback. Note that = we have little control over attendee's client configs, unlike universit= ies or companies. However, we can certainly provide more information and au= tomated tools like the eduroam community does.

As none of us are as expert in this field, doing it par= t time three times a year on a volunteer basis, we may need further expert = advise. The eduroam docs are great, but if we need more we'll contact y= ou.=A0We'll follow up with you on this once the VMs are spun up at thei= r between meetings home and I'm back from vacation--early to mid=A0September.

Chris.



On Thursday, Au= gust 8, 2013, Stefan Winter wrote:
Hi,
> The cert we are using for the IETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not=
> including eduroam) is from the same CA that is providing the certs for=
> the rest of the IETF (including web, email, dnssec, and more, I
> believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification Authority) is in mos= t
> or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate store. Which means mo= st
> 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supply. It's up= to
> the user to not un-check the "Check server cert" box! Our th= ought was
> that that was sufficient.

No! This is a common misconception. The "browser trust" and EAP t= rust
are different, and it is insignificant if the CA used is in the browser
trust store or not.

It may save you the step of installing the PEM file itself, sure, but
the crucial part is that you need to be able to tell your EAP supplicant on the device that the expected server cert comes from *exactly one* CA.
Further to this, contrary to the web browser case, you need to manually
configure which server name to expect; in the browser, this is
explicitly input by the user in his URL bar - but no equivalent of that
exists for EAP.

We have fought for years to get that into our Identity Providers' heads= .
Our official eduroam documentation has an extensive section about all
the concepts and nits to consider:

https://confluence.terena.org/disp= lay/H2eduroam/EAP+Server+Certificate+considerations

If you don't pin the exact CA *and* server name in config, you make
yourself susceptible to MitM attacks still:

- if you trust all CAs in the "browser trust" store: the MitM get= s
himself an arbitrary certificate from any CA in the trust store and uses it for his fraudulent EAP server - your EAP supplicant would trust it,
even if it has nothing to do with your EAP server.

- if you don't verify the name (but the exact CA): the MitM tries to connect to the genuine network once, sees which CA is expected, goes to
the same CA and gets himself a certificate for an unrelated name (to
which he is entitled to by say having a corresponding domain name). He
sets up a fraudulent EAP server with that certificate - your EAP
supplicant will accept it even if he does the extra step of verifying
the CA.

> However, we certainly can look into doing as you suggest and publishin= g
> more information. Of course, the page we post this to will probably al= so
> be verified by this same CA... ;-)

That's the default CA bootstrap problem. You can put the CA's
fingerprint in a text file, and PGP-sign the file with IETF brass PGP
keys if you like :-)

In eduroam, we *require* IdPs to "publish all information needed to uniquely identify the authentication server"; and we even have an
automated provisioning tool which sets up supplicants with all the
correct and secure settings - including the CA installation.

It works everywhere except on Karen O'Donoghue's Mac. ;-)

Greetings,

Stefan Winter

>
> Chris.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu
> <mailto:stefan.winter@restena.lu>>= ; wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 Hi,
>
> =A0 =A0 > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi.
>
> =A0 =A0 Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provid= es eduroam,
> =A0 =A0 which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server<= br> > =A0 =A0 certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, a= nd we won't verify
> =A0 =A0 yours".
>
> =A0 =A0 The Max numbers in the NOC report are
>
> =A0 =A0 the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89
> =A0 =A0 the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91
>
> =A0 =A0 Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted conn= ections.
>
> =A0 =A0 Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's no= t so really
> =A0 =A0 great, but still quite a significant portion.
>
> =A0 =A0 > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wi= fi "IETF" and
> =A0 =A0 > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED".
>
> =A0 =A0 Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you m= ay well
> =A0 =A0 talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a Mi= tM who can
> =A0 =A0 decrypt and snoop out your traffic.
>
> =A0 =A0 The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe= more
> =A0 =A0 people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra be= nefit of
> =A0 =A0 being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. N= either the
> =A0 =A0 open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that.
>
> =A0 =A0 The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Informati= on page,
> =A0 =A0 actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs = the auth
> =A0 =A0 server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNa= mes. This
> =A0 =A0 allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing = when
> =A0 =A0 connecting.
>
> =A0 =A0 There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA cert= s and EAP
> =A0 =A0 settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science.
>
> =A0 =A0 Greetings,
>
> =A0 =A0 Stefan Winter
>
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 --
> =A0 =A0 Stefan WINTER
> =A0 =A0 Ingenieur de Recherche
> =A0 =A0 Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Edu= cation Nationale et
> =A0 =A0 de la Recherche
> =A0 =A0 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
> =A0 =A0 L-1359 Luxembourg
>
> =A0 =A0 Tel: +352 424409 1 <tel:%2B352%20424409%201>
> =A0 =A0 Fax: +352 422473 <tel:%2B352%20422473>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 _______________________________________________
> =A0 =A0 87attendees mailing list
> =A0 =A0 87attendees@ietf.org <mailto:87attendees@ietf.org>
> =A0 =A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Elliott
> chelliot@pobox.com <mailto:= chelliot@pobox.com>


--
Stefan WINTER
Ingenieur de Recherche
Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Nation= ale et
de la Recherche
6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
L-1359 Luxembourg

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473



--
Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com

--001a1133eaca2c33f604e36f04b0-- From cabo@tzi.org Thu Aug 8 06:04:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F06E21F9E43 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:04:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r+mgGxCTvg+B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3369621F9E2B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r78D3j98016970; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:03:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.105] (p5489221B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.34.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6375EF3C; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:03:45 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:03:43 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <92E75668-B19F-4F09-B7B2-8F391A8DA117@tzi.org> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> <52038ABF.5010201@restena.lu> To: chelliot@pobox.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Stefan Winter Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:04:02 -0000 On Aug 8, 2013, at 14:44, Chris Elliott wrote: > little control over attendee's client configs, unlike universities or = companies Ha! I'd certainly wish I had any of that control at my university. But eduroam offers enough incentives that people do load those = .mobileconfig files. (You could provide one for ietf.1x, too. After your vacation...) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From keith@dns-oarc.net Thu Aug 8 07:09:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478BE11E812A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id shZupVX5M59X for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.dns-oarc.net (in1.dns-oarc.net [149.20.58.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A6DA21F99C2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [91.207.198.3] (rrcs-70-61-238-78.central.biz.rr.com [70.61.238.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.dns-oarc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C74E6BDCFB; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:09:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keith@dns-oarc.net) Message-ID: <5203A697.10705@dns-oarc.net> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:09:27 -0400 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: DNS-OARC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130105 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:09:39 -0000 On 08/08/2013 01:57 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >>> Check out the NOC report which was referenced (but not >>> delivered) during the plenary on Wednesday. > > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. Probably I'm being dumb, but I find it too much hassle to configure for Linux - my network config tool (knetworkmanager *) always asks for more WPA/802.1x parameter options than are ever published. I could probably be less lazy and figure them out or ask around, but a sample config or template file would sure help. Not that I don't use SSH. Seems to work just great for Android. Keith (*) you can take your own view whether this is a developer UI fail or a protocol feature overload fail... From fernando@gont.com.ar Thu Aug 8 07:39:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CEB11E812A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:39:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.780, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M-ggxD9oAQwi for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web01.jbserver.net (web01.jbserver.net [IPv6:2a00:d10:2000:e::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0635A21F8BCE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ol128-236.fibertel.com.ar ([24.232.236.128] helo=[192.168.1.172]) by web01.jbserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1V7RNG-0007Lx-UY; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:39:35 +0200 Message-ID: <5203AB4F.5090803@gont.com.ar> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:29:35 -0300 From: Fernando Gont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [87attendees] IPv6 hackers meeting. Slideware and videos X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:39:43 -0000 Folks, For those that couldn't attend, most of the materials of the IPv6 hackers meeting held in Berlin are available here: Thanks to Dan York, for his extremely good responsiveness (recording of the presentations wasn't planned, but rather arranged on the fly in response to requests from the community) and his excellent work in making the recording happen. Cheers, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From dharkins@arubanetworks.com Thu Aug 8 09:06:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFBD21F995E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.700, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z+NE6JuDHL9b for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com (sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com [199.127.104.60]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9F321F8528 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:06:30 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1375977980-03d13446518f9770001-zkFhpE Received: from ALPINEMEADOWS.arubanetworks.com (alpinemeadows.arubanetworks.com [10.1.8.22]) by sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com with ESMTP id kSnmc9WvfDjfaX0O (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: dharkins@arubanetworks.com X-Barracuda-RBL-Trusted-Forwarder: 10.1.8.22 Received: from SQUAWVALLEY.arubanetworks.com ([fe80::7480:7ea2:60b2:c722]) by ALPINEMEADOWS.arubanetworks.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0283.003; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:06:20 -0700 From: Dan Harkins X-Barracuda-BWL-IP: fe80::7480:7ea2:60b2:c722 To: Stefan Winter , "chelliot@pobox.com" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless Thread-Index: AQHOkcFxby499SlDk0KR4H9R5sMCTJmG8uAAgAAU6oCABEJWgIAACq2AgABW8ICAAAawgP//zH2A Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:06:19 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <52038ABF.5010201@restena.lu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.1.8.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: alpinemeadows.arubanetworks.com[10.1.8.22] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1375977980 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES128-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.2.1.21:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at arubanetworks.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.138045 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:06:36 -0000 On 8/8/13 5:10 AM, "Stefan Winter" wrote: >Hi, > >> The cert we are using for the IETF SSIDs authenticated via 802.1X (not >> including eduroam) is from the same CA that is providing the certs for >> the rest of the IETF (including web, email, dnssec, and more, I >> believe). This CA (Starfield Secure Certification Authority) is in most >> or all recent OSes and browsers root certificate store. Which means most >> 802.1X supplicants /can/ verify the server cert we supply. It's up to >> the user to not un-check the "Check server cert" box! Our thought was >> that that was sufficient. > >No! This is a common misconception. The "browser trust" and EAP trust >are different, and it is insignificant if the CA used is in the browser >trust store or not. > >It may save you the step of installing the PEM file itself, sure, but >the crucial part is that you need to be able to tell your EAP supplicant >on the device that the expected server cert comes from *exactly one* CA. > >Further to this, contrary to the web browser case, you need to manually >configure which server name to expect; in the browser, this is >explicitly input by the user in his URL bar - but no equivalent of that >exists for EAP. > >We have fought for years to get that into our Identity Providers' heads. >Our official eduroam documentation has an extensive section about all >the concepts and nits to consider: > >https://confluence.terena.org/display/H2eduroam/EAP+Server+Certificate+con >siderations > >If you don't pin the exact CA *and* server name in config, you make >yourself susceptible to MitM attacks still: > >- if you trust all CAs in the "browser trust" store: the MitM gets >himself an arbitrary certificate from any CA in the trust store and uses >it for his fraudulent EAP server - your EAP supplicant would trust it, >even if it has nothing to do with your EAP server. > >- if you don't verify the name (but the exact CA): the MitM tries to >connect to the genuine network once, sees which CA is expected, goes to >the same CA and gets himself a certificate for an unrelated name (to >which he is entitled to by say having a corresponding domain name). He >sets up a fraudulent EAP server with that certificate - your EAP >supplicant will accept it even if he does the extra step of verifying >the CA. > >> However, we certainly can look into doing as you suggest and publishing >> more information. Of course, the page we post this to will probably also >> be verified by this same CA... ;-) > >That's the default CA bootstrap problem. You can put the CA's >fingerprint in a text file, and PGP-sign the file with IETF brass PGP >keys if you like :-) Trust stores... CA bootstrapping.... Maybe we should get some authentication scheme on the ietf.1x network that doesn't require using certificates. Maybe RFC 5931 :-) There's none of that "inner method" nonsense, no need to select a CA, no real identity versus anonymous identity issues. I certainly would not mind eating that brand of dog food. Dan. >In eduroam, we *require* IdPs to "publish all information needed to >uniquely identify the authentication server"; and we even have an >automated provisioning tool which sets up supplicants with all the >correct and secure settings - including the CA installation. > >It works everywhere except on Karen O'Donoghue's Mac. ;-) > >Greetings, > >Stefan Winter > >>=20 >> Chris. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter > > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. >>=20 >> Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides >>eduroam, >> which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server >> certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't >>verify >> yours". >>=20 >> The Max numbers in the NOC report are >>=20 >> the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 >> the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 >>=20 >> Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted >>connections. >>=20 >> Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so >>really >> great, but still quite a significant portion. >>=20 >> > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi >>"IETF" and >> > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". >>=20 >> Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may >>well >> talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM >>who can >> decrypt and snoop out your traffic. >>=20 >> The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe more >> people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benefit >>of >> being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. >>Neither the >> open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. >>=20 >> The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information >>page, >> actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the >>auth >> server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. This >> allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when >> connecting. >>=20 >> There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs and >>EAP >> settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. >>=20 >> Greetings, >>=20 >> Stefan Winter >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Stefan WINTER >> Ingenieur de Recherche >> Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education >>Nationale et >> de la Recherche >> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi >> L-1359 Luxembourg >>=20 >> Tel: +352 424409 1 >> Fax: +352 422473 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Chris Elliott >> chelliot@pobox.com > > >--=20 >Stefan WINTER >Ingenieur de Recherche >Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Nationale= et >de la Recherche >6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi >L-1359 Luxembourg > >Tel: +352 424409 1 >Fax: +352 422473 > From laser.ru@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 12:57:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59DF21F84CD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:57:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W+BbHTcOmUij for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x234.google.com (mail-we0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F61F21F9D4F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f180.google.com with SMTP id p61so2857463wes.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=p5eRLxEqaHt1U0weIOgKKCY71ozRwtFnSuX/gte1v1M=; b=k69oUrHlaU7KcYkwd/8z2GNyvN2/TULOuy6iksZlMEZ1d8tRBdrFoLCXqukKsZLAVd H9P1kwRXEkhWo69VzM2D9XMbiC9IsdnBVEKg7Y83y1GQNNa01W7N7sNZoRGA3+TaM1yh mpP5ZAl3FN9Lg2b13mpUAKNeQLGCLAjTOBDJTBkuKY5rlcP3nGpCZ7wL/eJY158QVETf FrD2JROXnhajWWR1+O6wK58iHZkmJYILwQABV9cOjDZ64/kGzbbr8YleDiCEIU25qkJ/ ynpLy4CQLeJtVRYkMsfjvrX+Py5kCNyeQKN1szqR05d1DIPq04h+ZckQgGKztZmoo8Gd m5OQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.24.138 with SMTP id u10mr4483142wjf.55.1375991853302; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.62.132 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:57:33 +0300 Message-ID: From: Andrey Lukyanenko To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234683a14b7b04e3751146 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:57:57 -0000 --e89a8f234683a14b7b04e3751146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I have access to eduroam, but almost always use ietf ssid. Eduroam periodically asks for login and password, ietf connects right away. Many academics do not even bother to setup their devices for eduroam (sometimes it is tricky for Android or WP, do not remember which device exactly caused me trouble). But it is cool to have eduroam (especcially when there are no alternative open networks). Best regards, Andrey Lukyanenko. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter wrote: > > > The IETF also provides eduroam > > And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. > (Finally, a feature where the IETF is providing *better* service to the > academics than to everyone else...) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > PS.: The eduroam number also provide a nice estimate of the number of > academics attending. > Of course, there may be a couple people who laboriously configure the WiF= i > for IETF before noticing they already had been connected, and there may > still be a few academics coming from eduroam-challenged institutions. Bu= t > overall, this is a nice indicator. > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --e89a8f234683a14b7b04e3751146 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,

I have access to eduroam, bu= t almost always use ietf ssid. Eduroam periodically asks for login and pass= word, ietf connects right away. Many academics do not even bother to setup = their devices for eduroam (sometimes it is tricky for Android or WP, do not= remember which device exactly caused me trouble). But it is cool to have e= duroam (especcially when there are no alternative open networks).


Best regards,
Andr= ey Lukyanenko.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Carsten= Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu> wrote:

> The IETF also provides eduroam

And tons of kudos go to whoever started this.
(Finally, a feature where the IETF is providing *better* service to the aca= demics than to everyone else...)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

PS.: The eduroam number also provide a nice estimate of the number of acade= mics attending.
Of course, there may be a couple people who laboriously configure the WiFi = for IETF before noticing they already had been connected, and there may sti= ll be a few academics coming from eduroam-challenged institutions. =C2=A0Bu= t overall, this is a nice indicator.

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--e89a8f234683a14b7b04e3751146-- From stefan.winter@restena.lu Thu Aug 8 22:57:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3FC21F9E46 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.327 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.327 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.272, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JMMd6LgXVfAU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D7A21F9E39 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D26F1058D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:57:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEE9B1058C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 07:57:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <520484D6.9090505@restena.lu> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:57:42 +0200 From: Stefan Winter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <52033C35.8060707@restena.lu> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="acHShD12scViIfJuoOPkrjEXBTDUW5NdT" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV Subject: Re: [87attendees] eduroam (Re: IETF wireless) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 05:57:46 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --acHShD12scViIfJuoOPkrjEXBTDUW5NdT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > I have access to eduroam, but almost always use ietf ssid. Eduroam > periodically asks for login and password, ietf connects right away. Man= y > academics do not even bother to setup their devices for eduroam > (sometimes it is tricky for Android or WP, do not remember which device= > exactly caused me trouble). Android < 4.3 and Windows Phone have broken / highly deficient EAP supplicants on board. There is little we can do about that (except for lobbying). Android 4.3 made *significant* leaps towards a good EAP supplicant; likely becaue of the many complaints of eduroam users, just google for it. WP8 improved its situation, but it's still far from perfect. Luckily, Windows Phone is - and likely continues to be - a niche product.= > But it is cool to have eduroam (especcially > when there are no alternative open networks). Open networks expose your data payload to everyone. Sure, they won't ask you for a username/password, and you could consider that an upside if you don't care about security. BTW, yesterday we had 1 million national roaming, and 100.000 international roaming logins; and it's semester break period. That's IMHO a pretty nice figure for a 24h period and I dare challenge your "many academics don't bother". Stefan >=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Andrey Lukyanenko. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >=20 > On Aug 8, 2013, at 08:35, Stefan Winter > wrote: >=20 > > The IETF also provides eduroam >=20 > And tons of kudos go to whoever started this. > (Finally, a feature where the IETF is providing *better* service to= > the academics than to everyone else...) >=20 > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >=20 > PS.: The eduroam number also provide a nice estimate of the number > of academics attending. > Of course, there may be a couple people who laboriously configure > the WiFi for IETF before noticing they already had been connected, > and there may still be a few academics coming from > eduroam-challenged institutions. But overall, this is a nice indic= ator. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et de la Recherche 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi L-1359 Luxembourg Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 --acHShD12scViIfJuoOPkrjEXBTDUW5NdT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIEhNYACgkQ+jm90f8eFWZJcQCcCG2+aG6/pTzYfv1teI1qJkCB di4An3sA3g/fRBIkyY1BMyKqFBCjT5a2 =ovhA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --acHShD12scViIfJuoOPkrjEXBTDUW5NdT-- From stefan.winter@restena.lu Thu Aug 8 23:03:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBD821F9D2C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:03:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.217, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UhHlNgI7nNh3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD1D21F9CCC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320961058D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C43B11058C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:03:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <52048614.5000706@restena.lu> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:03:00 +0200 From: Stefan Winter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QbHjvkn3a7mU1S3aJFeMLPqsavQAkMtSd" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 06:03:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QbHjvkn3a7mU1S3aJFeMLPqsavQAkMtSd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > Trust stores... CA bootstrapping.... Maybe we should get some > authentication scheme on the ietf.1x network that doesn't require using= > certificates. Maybe RFC 5931 :-) There's none of that "inner method" > nonsense, no need to select a CA, no real identity versus anonymous > identity issues. >=20 > I certainly would not mind eating that brand of dog food. Nice advertising ;-) Sure, EAP-pwd is a very interesting EAP method because it's simple AND secure. We've made our eduroam IdP admins aware of it, and hope to see it being used in eduroam, too. There are some downsides in real deployment; e.g. if you have a Microsoft AD, EAP-pwd won't get a representation of the password and can't operate. So it's not for everybody. But everybody who *can* make use of it should seriously consider it! Thinking of this (sorry to ruin your ad): for the IETF it would not be a clear winner: the mutual authentication is based on only you and your auth server knowing your password. For ietf.1x, I believe in most meeting incarnations, the username is "ietf" and password "ietf"? In that case, any MitM can pretend to be your EAP server. The server-side auth sort of breaks down if passwords aren't secret. Server-side auth with CA and CN still survives in such situations. Greetings, Stefan >=20 > Dan. >=20 >> In eduroam, we *require* IdPs to "publish all information needed to >> uniquely identify the authentication server"; and we even have an >> automated provisioning tool which sets up supplicants with all the >> correct and secure settings - including the CA installation. >> >> It works everywhere except on Karen O'Donoghue's Mac. ;-) >> >> Greetings, >> >> Stefan Winter >> >>> >>> Chris. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Stefan Winter >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> > Scary how many are using the unencrypted wifi. >>> >>> Don't only count the ietf.1x network. The IETF also provides >>> eduroam, >>> which is WPA2/AES with 802.1X and - sorry, NOC: actual server >>> certificate verification, not a "don't verify ours, and we won't >>> verify >>> yours". >>> >>> The Max numbers in the NOC report are >>> >>> the 3 "secure" ones: 25+27+37 =3D 89 >>> the two "edu" ones: 38 53 =3D 91 >>> >>> Which makes for a total of 180 max simultaneous encrypted >>> connections. >>> >>> Sure, compared to approx. 700 on the open networks it's not so >>> really >>> great, but still quite a significant portion. >>> >>> > A suggestion for next IETF would be to call the 802.1x wifi >>> "IETF" and >>> > the open one "IETF_UNENCRYPTED". >>> >>> Without verifying the server cert of the 802.1x network, you may >>> well >>> talk to the network encryptedly, but the network might be a MitM >>> who can >>> decrypt and snoop out your traffic. >>> >>> The ietf.1x network is just not as good as it could be - maybe mo= re >>> people would be inclined to use it if it provides the extra benef= it >>> of >>> being able to identify itself as *the genuine* IETF network. >>> Neither the >>> open network nor the ietf.1x currently do that. >>> >>> The fix would be surprisingly simple: in the Network Information >>> page, >>> actually *publish* the CA cert and its fingerprint that signs the= >>> auth >>> server, and also publish the server's subject/subjectAltNames. Th= is >>> allows every user to check whether he's on the real thing when >>> connecting. >>> >>> There are also provisioning tools that can install the CA certs a= nd >>> EAP >>> settings onto client devices. It's not rocket science. >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Stefan Winter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Stefan WINTER >>> Ingenieur de Recherche >>> Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education >>> Nationale et >>> de la Recherche >>> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi >>> L-1359 Luxembourg >>> >>> Tel: +352 424409 1 >>> Fax: +352 422473 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 87attendees mailing list >>> 87attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> Chris Elliott >>> chelliot@pobox.com >> >> >> --=20 >> Stefan WINTER >> Ingenieur de Recherche >> Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education Natio= nale et >> de la Recherche >> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi >> L-1359 Luxembourg >> >> Tel: +352 424409 1 >> Fax: +352 422473 >> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et de la Recherche 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi L-1359 Luxembourg Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 --QbHjvkn3a7mU1S3aJFeMLPqsavQAkMtSd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIEhhQACgkQ+jm90f8eFWYzAgCghz6Lr17eo1z9OlkrLF828m31 /HIAn2latkrQR70aVKhX8Sce8hwqoOKV =GUpm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QbHjvkn3a7mU1S3aJFeMLPqsavQAkMtSd-- From stefan.winter@restena.lu Thu Aug 8 23:07:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BA421F9BDB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:07:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ecaPXk2ISSu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F092921F9CAC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 23:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347141058D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:07:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D027F1058C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:07:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5204872A.9070708@restena.lu> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:07:38 +0200 From: Stefan Winter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5203A697.10705@dns-oarc.net> In-Reply-To: <5203A697.10705@dns-oarc.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gOxg6w64sSdDDLAk59qKI7p2iOGebdUUK" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 06:07:56 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --gOxg6w64sSdDDLAk59qKI7p2iOGebdUUK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > Probably I'm being dumb, but I find it too much hassle to configure for= > Linux - my network config tool (knetworkmanager *) always asks for more= > WPA/802.1x parameter options than are ever published. THat's why NOC should publish them :-) > I could probably > be less lazy and figure them out or ask around, but a sample config or > template file would sure help. For our users (our settings), this is on our setup isntructions page: http://www.restena.lu/restena/en/support/EN-eduroam-setup-knetworkmanager= =2Ehtml Obviously, change the CA to the one used by IETF NOC, and the server name as well, and use the ietf access password. All the rest is pretty standard. HTH, Stefan >=20 > Not that I don't use SSH. Seems to work just great for Android. >=20 > Keith >=20 > (*) you can take your own view whether this is a developer UI fail or a= > protocol feature overload fail... > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=E9seau T=E9l=E9informatique de l'Education National= e et de la Recherche 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi L-1359 Luxembourg Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 --gOxg6w64sSdDDLAk59qKI7p2iOGebdUUK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIEhyoACgkQ+jm90f8eFWbz9ACeI3EVVEcTcFNn6qQpN+S4qb6S rGwAoIv7+TW2E1xD9IiylJXkGMYrLTBP =4Jb4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gOxg6w64sSdDDLAk59qKI7p2iOGebdUUK-- From gettysjim@gmail.com Fri Aug 9 08:28:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE1D11E8258 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:28:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.473, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8upuSYpDh7lO for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x233.google.com (mail-ob0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B19911E8297 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f179.google.com with SMTP id fb19so6378295obc.24 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:18:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=O5jTULif9eF9G2kxbi4Bl/dquNg22/VN2B9B716BRV4=; b=AsKi/s0C3rVMriUjX73cIremQiES060Paj+m5TfhsQBeXKV+KRbxFeYk3Oq3r9wLVx qMfkL5qpEg5X80WPeJA8XWs6HQuzQhkSh5o5Oz+G5iQSm8gunP+ulAX8+XG5XI/40BoW 1ntifgtLScljx8H3pDHjrPOCxrHoB8sViSFmaDGdewqBsRDQCDKI0R3fqNcdH3rWsLXV zLIx6Q4P9ImLEmzBkhN/7WKeTxF163kdK1EgfJ+AL5EEAkOTI+t+2CT+qm14AOCc7wnm Hv5AsF5o21WfuJkPDplRnLbfJ8+chavUCSt1pKaZtQAm1LNEUoEcdFcTEz/hRTf3NTWr FelQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.38.234 with SMTP id j10mr929554oek.42.1376061507508; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.18.134 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:18:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 11:18:27 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: xKPxp8OLAWPPEtsSa4Jz0q64SyE Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149c210581e0b04e3854921 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 15:28:11 -0000 --089e0149c210581e0b04e3854921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > Hi, > > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. Indeed > the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that we pretty > much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. > > Is there any information available on the solution that was delivered? > From memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be interesting to > know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, especially for IPv6, > would be interesting too. > > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to > many... > Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the few where it does not. I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and IETF.So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a room of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver to California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why the network was usable. At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document what they do. I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again. Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are a number of "tricks" that they play: 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets back to a big router. 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack). 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). An early version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who have looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happens to have similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit marking/classification rules). Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at what is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured in enough detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done today. - Jim > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --089e0149c210581e0b04e3854921 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon= , Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> = wrote:
Hi,

Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. =A0Indeed t= he wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that we pretty much= take it for granted. =A0Well done to everyone involved.

Is there any information available on the solution that was delivered? =A0F= rom memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be interesting to know = about density, controllers, etc. =A0Usage info, especially for IPv6, would = be interesting too.

If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to m= any...
=A0
Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF= is one of the few where it does not. =A0=A0I first noticed at the Denver N= ANOG a working wireless network; but the same people are involved in both N= ANOG and IETF.So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to = see a room of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denv= er to California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why t= he network was usable.

At pa= st IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document = what they do. =A0I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again.=

Besides the layout of AP's= that other good operators do, there are a number of "tricks" tha= t they play:

1) the AP's have minimal i= nternal buffering, and forward their packets back to a big router.
2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run (W)R= ED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. =A0= This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation of= traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run OpenWrt/= CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will still t= ake a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack).
3) There is some QOS= /Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain operations (e.g. DNS lo= okup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). =A0 An early version of the marking they= do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I gather some later rules have b= een added since then. Those of you who have looked at fq_codel in detail mi= ght recognize that fq_codel happens to have similar behavior (without needi= ng the hair of such explicit marking/classification rules).=A0

Anyone setting up an large eve= nt today should take a careful look at what is being done, and it would be = good to get the knowledge captured in enough detail for others to reproduce= their work, as it can be done today.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Jim



Tim
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--089e0149c210581e0b04e3854921-- From chelliot@gmail.com Fri Aug 9 09:44:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B853721F99BA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.893 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.893 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kZci3rSCfreL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22f.google.com (mail-lb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AC611E80EA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 13so3355432lba.34 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=2DdxQjqQ+hFe5lRjYodfxfQ40G0eDUY0jgK7jxwQ3KI=; b=iPD0BfHYInxAbDJV5FshUIrWLI5WHBcYki0oXwJNPEf74jGVljNz900iZTMfYGO4Yz F4x248Ea3fYbuzQhkQ6LD9qaTGd/kJBV9JaV8Ry3ElozcIcM5RIvOIZwVNmExEV1bH8g I4sUt7ah/vRhGJ1oDJ2Y3aS4DBfkuRGNeD6O3OzmkeS5Ax8l7eodTKd8OM1uQdR8Rjmb Q03nQl0EWNGVLGo+/QZzYQ5MMG4Gra/gnNyMEw2iiX6Yj+tdtHwNaDgoUi4AI+luJNKB 7par2nG/PjsUFJXb4Dxp4VxbT0CNaWPAgy3bd9jKRj2K1hfadJCXtzgW5iQAYjL322hG CwuA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.73.236 with SMTP id o12mr513296lbv.75.1376066274725; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: chelliot@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.3.44 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 12:37:54 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: szDoNEvT-nGWyRcV5e4BDvcG7yI Message-ID: From: Chris Elliott To: Jim Gettys Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae94737c17e18ae04e3866548 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: chelliot@pobox.com List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:44:55 -0000 --14dae94737c17e18ae04e3866548 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Friday, August 9, 2013, Jim Gettys wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown > > wrote: > >> Hi, > > ... > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to >> many... >> > We're in active discussions about documenting this, especially why we make certain decisions in light of the rather special conditions of the IETF meetings: relatively high network usage per attendee vs. many other meetings like IEEE and access to donated high speed internet connectivity, being just two of the parameters. Also, site selection is a huge part--the network team is part of the site evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suitability of venues to host the network you all know and love is taken very seriously, and has nixed many venues. Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the > few where it does not. I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working > wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and IETF. > I haven't been involved with the NANOG network on years. My understanding is that our philosophy and design differ fundamentally. We over-provision, they tune, is an over-simplification... > So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a room of > 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver to > California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why the > network was usable. > > At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document > what they do. I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again. > Part of it is, we're volunteers. We love doing it. And many of us are quite active in standards, not just the network. At the end of two intense weeks, we're ready to get back to our "real" lives. And, as noted above, we hear you, and are working on documenting things. > Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are a > number of "tricks" that they play: > > 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets > back to a big router. > Agreed. > 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run > (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. > This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation > of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run > OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will > still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack). > I agree that bufferbloat is a huge issue in many environments. Addressing it fixed my son's company's network, with >20 people sharing a 35M down/5M up link, and is just one datum in that story. However, at the IETF, we have the luxury of "simply" over provisioning and relying on the enterprise routers to do the right thing without much tuning at all. Most of our traffic transits the Internet. The internal traffic is small and not an issue. I address wireless at the end briefly... Our traffic peaks on the external links hit a max of 200Mbps this meeting. The highest we've seen was in Hiroshima, where WIDE did the network and we basically were advisors without much to do, hit 300Mbps. Now, consider that we had two 1Gbps connections to a high-tier service provider (DT, in this case) with very low latency, and DT's connectivity to the rest of the Internet is very good. To way over-simplify, and maybe trolling a bit, who needs queueing or QoS when any buffers you have are empty? 1500 byte packets just don't take enough time to transmit on a 1G link to affect other traffic, including, for example, small voice packets, especially when they're only carrying 200Mbps peak. And we often don't try to share the load across our two links--it's reliability we're after, not more bandwidth. 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain > operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). An early > version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I > gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who have > looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happens to have > similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit > marking/classification rules). > Note that we don't do any QoS/Diffserv outside of what would have to be explicitly turned off in the gear we use. Once again, I'm not dismissing bufferbloat as a real issue, just that I don't need to address it in the IETF network. > Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at what > is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured in enough > detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done today. > Agreed. I think a large part of our success has been from how we build the wireless side of things. This is almost always the only constrained part of the net. More details later, but we've actively worked to encourage folks to use the 5Ghz spectrum, and we build the wireless net to maximize the available bandwidth while managing a low noise level. And, all equipment, from the Juniper and Cisco gear and other enterprise/carrier grade equipment, to the wireless drivers in everyone's client devices, have improved markedly over the past few years. I especially see the improvement in wireless. Wireless clients rarely act like the burro between two (or 100...) bales of hay these days. Clients used to roam frequently to a slightly "better" AP (BSSID). Now they stick much better, which leads to other, much easier to deal with, issues. I heard a story at this meeting that one of our own directly affected this (years ago) by simply moving around in front of the desk of a developer as they were tuning their code, and wondering why performance sucked and their code kept triggering roaming...they got the point, and fixed the code. Thanks for the kind words about the net, and your continued encouragement for us to document what we do. Chris. > - Jim > > > >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> > > -- Chris Elliott chelliot@pobox.com --14dae94737c17e18ae04e3866548 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, August 9, 2013, Jim Gettys wrote:
On = Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi,
...=A0=
=
If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to m= any...
=A0
We= 're in active discussions about documenting this, especially why we mak= e certain decisions in light of the rather special conditions of the IETF m= eetings: relatively high network usage per attendee vs. many other meetings= like IEEE and=A0access to donated high speed internet connectivity, being = just two of the parameters.

Also, site selection is a huge part--the network team i= s part of the site evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suit= ability of venues to host the network you all know and love is taken very s= eriously, and has nixed many venues.

Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the fe= w where it does not. =A0=A0I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working wi= reless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and IETF.

I haven't been involved with the N= ANOG network on=A0years. My understanding is that our philosophy and design= differ fundamentally. We over-provision, they tune, is an over-simplificat= ion...
=A0
So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a room of = 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver to Californ= ia consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why the network was= usable.

At pa= st IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document = what they do. =A0I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again.=

Part of it is, we're= volunteers. We love doing it. And many of us are quite active in standards= , not just the network. At the end of two intense weeks, we're ready to= get back to our "real" lives.

And, as noted above, we hear you, and are working on do= cumenting things.
=A0
Besides the layout of AP's that other= good operators do, there are a number of "tricks" that they play= :

1) the AP's have minimal i= nternal buffering, and forward their packets back to a big router.
=A0
Agreed.
=A0
2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run (W)R= ED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. =A0= This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation of= traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run OpenWrt/= CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will still t= ake a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack).

I agree that bufferbloat= is a huge issue in many environments. Addressing it fixed my son's com= pany's network, with >20 people sharing a 35M down/5M up link, and i= s just one datum in that story.

However, at the IETF,=A0we have the luxury of "sim= ply" over provisioning and relying on the=A0enterprise routers to do t= he right thing without much tuning at all. Most of our traffic transits the= Internet. The internal traffic is small and not an issue. I address wirele= ss at the end briefly...

Our traffic peaks on the external links hit a max of 20= 0Mbps=A0this meeting. The highest we've seen was in Hiroshima, where WI= DE did the network and we basically were advisors without much to do, hit 3= 00Mbps.

Now, consider that we had two 1Gbps connections to a hi= gh-tier service provider (DT, in this case) with very low latency, and DT&#= 39;s connectivity to the rest of the Internet is very good.

To way over-simplify, and maybe trolling a bit,=A0who needs queu= eing or QoS=A0when any buffers you have are empty? 1500 byte packets just d= on't take enough time to transmit on a 1G link to affect other traffic,= including, for example, small voice packets, especially when they're o= nly carrying 200Mbps peak.

And we often don't try to share the load across our= two links--it's reliability we're after, not more bandwidth.
=

3) There is some QOS= /Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain operations (e.g. DNS lo= okup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). =A0 An early version of the marking they= do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I gather some later rules have b= een added since then. Those of you who have looked at fq_codel in detail mi= ght recognize that fq_codel happens to have similar behavior (without needi= ng the hair of such explicit marking/classification rules).=A0

Note that we don't d= o any QoS/Diffserv outside of what would have to be explicitly turned off i= n the gear we use.

Once again, I'm not dismiss= ing bufferbloat as a real issue, just that I don't need to address it i= n the IETF network.
=A0
Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at what i= s being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured in enough = detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done today.

Agreed.

I think a large=A0part of our success has been from how we build t= he wireless side of things. This is almost always=A0the only constrained pa= rt of the net. More details later, but we've actively worked to encoura= ge folks to use the 5Ghz spectrum, and we build the wireless net to maximiz= e the available bandwidth while managing a low noise level.

And, all equipment,=A0from the Juniper=A0and Cisco gear= and other enterprise/carrier grade equipment, to the wireless drivers in e= veryone's client devices, have improved markedly over the past few year= s. I especially see the improvement in wireless.=A0

Wireless clients rarely act like the burro between two = (or 100...) bales of hay
these days.=A0Clients used to roam frequ= ently to a slightly "better" AP (BSSID). Now they stick much bett= er, which leads to other, much easier to deal with, issues.

I heard a story at this meeting=A0that one of our own d= irectly affected this (years ago)=A0by simply moving around in front of the= desk of a developer as=A0they=A0were=A0tuning their code, and= wondering why performance sucked and their=A0code kept triggering=A0roamin= g...they got the point, and fixed the code.

Thanks for the kind words about the net, and your conti= nued encouragement for us to document what we do.

= Chris.
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Jim



Tim
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees



--
Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com

--14dae94737c17e18ae04e3866548-- From gettysjim@gmail.com Fri Aug 9 10:13:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1707011E813A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:13:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.315, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QleDG22shgy7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x230.google.com (mail-oa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E6C21F9D45 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id o17so7102674oag.21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:06:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=q2f6M1kaa56TUjQS3M9w1MCrTnuUW0evM9wTMn1YG28=; b=G0ix+4zV8JVgRyAs1vhkXekL6+byPLfA944c/hrAUjeJoAIPLIIajgXCS1kZg5mIHh xuyGcAQ/ose7v0bCUbNUgwt7KOrrklOib3oK3PlHX572Dqt4CTQfnLAlXOTNdFnmhL24 RTWIr3lpD3ZwKsDXasmv0kXs4x+2PTT8wzTJeOWM2hsmW3Jphx2RZqiOaQHCf/d3OABg 0uI2up2e2CW6EKownAcSP1nZKcr44eXUxZ1cSjlbKyrmsXh/i86ugG29BIa/AGR/PVCM iYQlyG6KwN9pU6V/KH1OeBNypsQktE4DOtW2oHIbSF/LtLDRMKtjn4pLG4F3/mDSP135 sOUw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.133.233 with SMTP id pf9mr1272599oeb.46.1376067980805; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.18.134 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:06:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 13:06:20 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f0k4ZmlUTkSS4CbHBywKjSyzujg Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: chelliot@pobox.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4720782ecd1a04e386cbd9 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:13:08 -0000 --047d7b4720782ecd1a04e386cbd9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Chris Elliott wrote: > On Friday, August 9, 2013, Jim Gettys wrote: >> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown wrote: >> >>> Hi, >> >> ... > >> If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to >>> many... >>> >> > We're in active discussions about documenting this, especially why we make > certain decisions in light of the rather special conditions of the IETF > meetings: relatively high network usage per attendee vs. many other > meetings like IEEE and access to donated high speed internet connectivity, > being just two of the parameters. > > Also, site selection is a huge part--the network team is part of the site > evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suitability of venues > to host the network you all know and love is taken very seriously, and has > nixed many venues. > > Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the >> few where it does not. I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working >> wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and IETF. >> > > I haven't been involved with the NANOG network on years. My understanding > is that our philosophy and design differ fundamentally. We over-provision, > they tune, is an over-simplification... > > >> So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a room >> of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver to >> California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why the >> network was usable. >> >> At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document >> what they do. I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again. >> > > Part of it is, we're volunteers. We love doing it. And many of us are > quite active in standards, not just the network. At the end of two intense > weeks, we're ready to get back to our "real" lives. > > And, as noted above, we hear you, and are working on documenting things. > > >> Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are a >> number of "tricks" that they play: >> >> 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets >> back to a big router. >> > > Agreed. > > >> 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run >> (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. >> This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation >> of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run >> OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will >> still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack). >> > > I agree that bufferbloat is a huge issue in many environments. Addressing > it fixed my son's company's network, with >20 people sharing a 35M down/5M > up link, and is just one datum in that story. > > However, at the IETF, we have the luxury of "simply" over provisioning and > relying on the enterprise routers to do the right thing without much tuning > at all. Most of our traffic transits the Internet. The internal traffic is > small and not an issue. I address wireless at the end briefly... > > Our traffic peaks on the external links hit a max of 200Mbps this meeting. > The highest we've seen was in Hiroshima, where WIDE did the network and we > basically were advisors without much to do, hit 300Mbps. > > Now, consider that we had two 1Gbps connections to a high-tier service > provider (DT, in this case) with very low latency, and DT's connectivity to > the rest of the Internet is very good. > > To way over-simplify, and maybe trolling a bit, who needs queueing or > QoS when any buffers you have are empty? 1500 byte packets just don't take > enough time to transmit on a 1G link to affect other traffic, including, > for example, small voice packets, especially when they're only carrying > 200Mbps peak. > I was only referring to the AP/router hop: beyond the IETF router, classification is pretty much irrelevant given overprovisioned uplinks: your bottlenecks will typically be in the WiFi hop, not in the back haul. Remember, a single modern TCP stack and only a few wireless sessions can fill even a 200-300Mbps pipe. This wasn't true in the days of Windows XP (which did not have TCP window scaling turned on, and crawled). Over provisioning really just cuts the effective size (in time) of buffers that you have. Filling any buffers at a bottleneck is what TCP loves to do. So it's easy to saturate the 802.11 hop, and on the IETF network, I betcha it's often there, not in the backhaul. Again, the AP's you are using don't sport giant buffers. So it can/does really matter to run AQM (on the wireless links), even so (when people download big files). And if you aren't running any these days, you are winning due to the lack of buffering in the AP's. > And we often don't try to share the load across our two links--it's > reliability we're after, not more bandwidth. > > 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain >> operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). An early >> version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I >> gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who have >> looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happens to have >> similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit >> marking/classification rules). >> > > Note that we don't do any QoS/Diffserv outside of what would have to be > explicitly turned off in the gear we use. > At one point, I tracked down the rules/marking in use on the routers/AP's when I looked into it. It was all sensible stuff. > Once again, I'm not dismissing bufferbloat as a real issue, just that I > don't need to address it in the IETF network. > And the AP's aren't horribly over-buffered in the first place. It's people who set up conference networks using consumer devices that really get bit hard by bufferbloat (or many cheap motels that do likewise). I've seen this on many, many occasions. > > >> Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at what >> is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured in enough >> detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done today. >> > > Agreed. > > I think a large part of our success has been from how we build the > wireless side of things. This is almost always the only constrained part of > the net. More details later, but we've actively worked to encourage folks > to use the 5Ghz spectrum, and we build the wireless net to maximize the > available bandwidth while managing a low noise level. > > And, all equipment, from the Juniper and Cisco gear and other > enterprise/carrier grade equipment, to the wireless drivers in everyone's > client devices, have improved markedly over the past few years. I > especially see the improvement in wireless. > > Wireless clients rarely act like the burro between two (or 100...) bales > of hay > these days. Clients used to roam frequently to a slightly "better" AP > (BSSID). Now they stick much better, which leads to other, much easier to > deal with, issues. > > I heard a story at this meeting that one of our own directly affected this > (years ago) by simply moving around in front of the desk of a developer as they were tuning > their code, and wondering why performance sucked and their code kept > triggering roaming...they got the point, and fixed the code. > Yeah, and bufferbloat encourages this behavior: when your throughput drops (either due to physical environment, or competing traffic), your latency can go through the roof if the network (and host!) has lots of unmanaged buffers, and you either die a slow death or move to a different ESSID. And IETF wireless network doesn't have a pile of unmanged buffers, so you win (in the downstream). Saturating the wireless link in the upstream direction you'll still have problems in your devices; bloat is in our operating system stacks and device drivers... > Thanks for the kind words about the net, and your continued encouragement > for us to document what we do. > It's excellent! Keep up the great work. Jim > Chris. > > >> - Jim >> >> >> >>> Tim >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 87attendees mailing list >>> 87attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >>> >> >> > > -- > Chris Elliott > chelliot@pobox.com > > --047d7b4720782ecd1a04e386cbd9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri= , Aug 9, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Chris Elliott <chelliot@pobox.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013, Jim Gettys w= rote:
On M= on, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soto= n.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi,
...=A0
If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest to m= any...
=A0
<= div>We're in active discussions about documenting this, especially why = we make certain decisions in light of the rather special conditions of the = IETF meetings: relatively high network usage per attendee vs. many other me= etings like IEEE and=A0access to donated high speed internet connectivity, = being just two of the parameters.

Also, site selection is a huge part--the network team i= s part of the site evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suit= ability of venues to host the network you all know and love is taken very s= eriously, and has nixed many venues.

Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the fe= w where it does not. =A0=A0I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working wi= reless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and IETF.
I haven't been involved with the NANOG network on=A0= years. My understanding is that our philosophy and design differ fundamenta= lly. We over-provision, they tune, is an over-simplification...
=A0
=
So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a room of = 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver to Californ= ia consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why the network was= usable.

At past IETF's I've u= rged the operation teams that they should document what they do. =A0I did n= ot have time in Berlin to repeat the request again.

Part of it is, we&= #39;re volunteers. We love doing it. And many of us are quite active in sta= ndards, not just the network. At the end of two intense weeks, we're re= ady to get back to our "real" lives.

And, as noted above, we hear you, and are working on do= cumenting things.
=A0
Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, ther= e are a number of "tricks" that they play:

1) = the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets bac= k to a big router.
=A0
Agreed.
=A0
2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run (W)R= ED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an issue. =A0= This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little aggregation of= traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if you run OpenWrt/= CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation properly will still t= ake a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack).

I agree that buffe= rbloat is a huge issue in many environments. Addressing it fixed my son'= ;s company's network, with >20 people sharing a 35M down/5M up link,= and is just one datum in that story.

However, at the IETF,=A0we have the luxury of "sim= ply" over provisioning and relying on the=A0enterprise routers to do t= he right thing without much tuning at all. Most of our traffic transits the= Internet. The internal traffic is small and not an issue. I address wirele= ss at the end briefly...

Our traffic peaks on the external links hit a max of 20= 0Mbps=A0this meeting. The highest we've seen was in Hiroshima, where WI= DE did the network and we basically were advisors without much to do, hit 3= 00Mbps.

Now, consider that we had= two 1Gbps connections to a high-tier service provider (DT, in this case) w= ith very low latency, and DT's connectivity to the rest of the Internet= is very good.

To way over-simplify, and maybe trolling a bit,=A0who needs queu= eing or QoS=A0when any buffers you have are empty? 1500 byte packets just d= on't take enough time to transmit on a 1G link to affect other traffic,= including, for example, small voice packets, especially when they're o= nly carrying 200Mbps peak.

I was only referring to the AP/router hop: beyond the IETF router, = classification is pretty much irrelevant given overprovisioned uplinks: you= r bottlenecks will typically be in the WiFi hop, not in the back haul.=A0

Remember, a single modern TCP s= tack and only a few wireless sessions can fill even a 200-300Mbps pipe. =A0= This wasn't true in the days of Windows XP (which did not have TCP wind= ow scaling turned on, and crawled).

Over pr= ovisioning really just cuts the effective size (in time) of buffers that yo= u have. =A0Filling any buffers at a bottleneck is what TCP loves to do. So = it's easy to saturate the 802.11 hop, and on the IETF network, I betcha= it's often there, not in the backhaul.

Again, the AP's you are using don't sport gian= t buffers.

=
So it can/does really matter to run AQM (on the wireless links), even so (w= hen people download big files). =A0And if you aren't running any these = days, you are winning due to the lack of buffering in the AP's.


And we often don't try to share the load across our= two links--it's reliability we're after, not more bandwidth.
=

3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being p= layed to prioritize certain operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, a= nd so on). =A0 An early version of the marking they do was documented at a = NANOG meeting; but I gather some later rules have been added since then. Th= ose of you who have looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_co= del happens to have similar behavior (without needing the hair of such expl= icit marking/classification rules).=A0

Note that we don&#= 39;t do any QoS/Diffserv outside of what would have to be explicitly turned= off in the gear we use.

At one point, I tracked down the rules/marking in use on the routers/AP'= ;s when I looked into it. =A0It was all sensible stuff.


Once again, I'm not dismissing bufferbloat as a rea= l issue, just that I don't need to address it in the IETF network.

And the AP's = aren't horribly over-buffered in the first place.

It'= s people who set up conference networks using consumer devices that really = get bit hard by bufferbloat (or many cheap motels that do likewise). =A0I&#= 39;ve seen this on many, many occasions.
=A0
=
Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at what i= s being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured in enough = detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done today.

Agreed.
=
I think a large=A0part of our success has been from how we b= uild the wireless side of things. This is almost always=A0the only constrai= ned part of the net. More details later, but we've actively worked to e= ncourage folks to use the 5Ghz spectrum, and we build the wireless net to m= aximize the available bandwidth while managing a low noise level.

And, all equipment,=A0from the Juniper=A0and Cisco gear= and other enterprise/carrier grade equipment, to the wireless drivers in e= veryone's client devices, have improved markedly over the past few year= s. I especially see the improvement in wireless.=A0

Wireless clients rarely act like the burro between two = (or 100...) bales of hay
these days.=A0Clients used to roam frequ= ently to a slightly "better" AP (BSSID). Now they stick much bett= er, which leads to other, much easier to deal with, issues.

I heard a story at this meeting=A0that one of our own d= irectly affected this (years ago)=A0by simply moving around in front of the= desk of a developer as=A0they=A0were=A0tuning their code, and= wondering why performance sucked and their=A0code kept triggering=A0roamin= g...they got the point, and fixed the code.

Yeah, and bufferbloat encourages this behavior: when your throughpu= t drops (either due to physical environment, or competing traffic), your la= tency can go through the roof if the network (and host!) has lots of unmana= ged buffers, and you either die a slow death or move to a different ESSID. = And IETF wireless network doesn't have a pile of unmanged buffers, so y= ou win (in the downstream). =A0Saturating the wireless link in the upstream= direction you'll still have problems in your devices; bloat is in our = operating system stacks and device drivers...


Thanks for the kind words about the net, and your conti= nued encouragement for us to document what we do.
It's exc= ellent! =A0Keep up the great work.

Jim


Chris.
=A0<= /div>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Jim



Tim
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees



-= -
Chris Elliott
chelliot@pobox.com


--047d7b4720782ecd1a04e386cbd9-- From joelja@gmail.com Fri Aug 9 10:16:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3987821F9A6A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:16:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oABOe6LBV3xP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x230.google.com (mail-pb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F180221F9A3D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id ma3so4756124pbc.21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=98R7svJwtLSTZBtm4htFV22o8YxOqP2FlHMCBTQYyXk=; b=fQSliS7lC5vXgxu8xkgNbJbzaYy2NWEP6W0uN3MtLYIb6OU8L9qXAP05xX4ifKPvyJ wrzWOSfOW8iZZhytqfgshDAqSlMAGA98HrMJ3F1EeiesLZaubJXUyiY6TPOlJiHCglZ8 LFjv+BcwCd4k64Am0JInjBlnKAUykL+91K+/atMnKHcaY1VyN7zHRFJsyvC1mhgaZjUY XUffZX3+dOKFl9U4tF2MbPghK2m203TvFTDZES4Jt0HZl6NNZDZUkBD7TovtMnffivrI 7JgzphjlR/MBj2agA0smnjaCCTfO8ywumdEx0eaWDljFSiDO9SZC+2BkkdvXqE7UGUdO aHIQ== X-Received: by 10.69.15.33 with SMTP id fl1mr12435841pbd.189.1376068305428; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com. [64.47.153.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qh10sm21123330pbb.33.2013.08.09.10.11.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520522CE.4010109@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:11:42 -0700 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Gettys , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:16:04 -0000 On 8/9/13 8:18 AM, Jim Gettys wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown > wrote: > > Hi, > > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. > Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such > that we pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone > involved. > > Is there any information available on the solution that was > delivered? From memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be > interesting to know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, > especially for IPv6, would be interesting too. > > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest > to many... > > > Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the > few where it does not. unicast packets are delivered "reliably" on 802.11 networks. really high latency on the first hop is generally indicative of high noise floor/lots of contention/pdu's getting clobbered. limiting retransmission there (equivalent to a shallow buffer) may help you but it just pushes the cost of retransmission (due to packet loss) to the end-points rather than eliminating the source of restransmission. there are performance tweaks you can make to the RF domain, and the link layer that can help you there. dispensing with low speed rates, backward compatibility, increasing the multicast rate and so forth. as a practical matter if you want to keep the 2.4ghz band usable pushing as many clients as possible to 802.11a/n. while it's probably a tautology not having crappy wireless is in fact the first step in not having a crappy wireless network. > I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working > wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and > IETF. the contractor is the same > So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a > room of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver > to California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why > the network was usable. > > At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document > what they do. I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again. > > Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are a > number of "tricks" that they play: > > 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets > back to a big router. chris will chime in here I imagine. the APs are cisco 1142s which are nice high-end dual radio APs but not in an exceptional sense. the big router in this case is a gibson arch juniper so it's also not exceptional or particularly high capacity, nor is it doing a lot of shaping of any variety becuase none of the interfaces are terribly heavily utilized. in both cases overprovisioning works rather well. > 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run > (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an > issue. This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little > aggregation of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if > you run OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation > properly will still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack). > 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain > operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). An early > version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I > gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who > have looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happens > to have similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit > marking/classification rules). Anton Capella was responsible for this in it's initial iterations. It's not that uncommon for wireless carriers to employ a similar bag of tricks afaik we don't do any qos, since we don't have any queues to speak off. most traffic in the IETF network is north-south due to the hosts on the network having little to do with each other. That's not really the case in a homenet. Where some relatively huge flows may be between devices on the same wireless lan e.g. timemachine backups occuring while you're trying to stream video or maintain the responsiveness of your ssh session. > > Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at > what is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured > in enough detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done > today. > - Jim > > > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From gettysjim@gmail.com Fri Aug 9 10:42:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15B521F9C00 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.237, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K8PvZSAIjFe0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22c.google.com (mail-ob0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF8411E8171 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id er7so6794055obc.3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:35:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=kWjR5TanhJh5iFVvwqb0Aib7bGdcj/tTE9XahoBArUk=; b=lCs8ykaDp6dPDNSJXzu0kMw60hUR39mFxOHM+yrCagIgbjSrfgGTlG1xjqWzgmpLSt SF0KAK32OymDb2jGvClHtv2rQAgKcaHwI7GQbMmzwD9chaF6BG8IzK2cnmf3oxfGvlY9 uEtkKafNB1vjGCf0rE4TKUobg5XuDSeEiFG1UFC0ifuD7ETsRX/z72E7UvxG4u+MVs4o BSrPHf85CMMVpyrZdohWa9rGeO1YEvvl+udJp5nPCS2G0zFUtYcZlbcoNyaRMr5rhvft C4Z+SFk7atcSVC48Jzkx1i8ke1AvNw1hJCFHBtjGv08XlWb59NYDdHoBs8Zb94L/Q+C1 k6Sg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.133.233 with SMTP id pf9mr1365840oeb.46.1376069720592; Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.18.134 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 10:35:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <520522CE.4010109@gmail.com> References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <520522CE.4010109@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 13:35:20 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rfpRovylIYedBgzA7qMSQuBLRsU Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: joel jaeggli Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b472078e1d52504e387327b Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:42:26 -0000 --047d7b472078e1d52504e387327b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 1:11 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 8/9/13 8:18 AM, Jim Gettys wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. > > Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such > > that we pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone > > involved. > > > > Is there any information available on the solution that was > > delivered? From memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it would be > > interesting to know about density, controllers, etc. Usage info, > > especially for IPv6, would be interesting too. > > > > If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of interest > > to many... > > > > > > Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of the > > few where it does not. > > unicast packets are delivered "reliably" on 802.11 networks. really high > latency on the first hop is generally indicative of high noise > floor/lots of contention/pdu's getting clobbered. limiting > retransmission there (equivalent to a shallow buffer) may help you but > it just pushes the cost of retransmission (due to packet loss) to the > end-points rather than eliminating the source of restransmission. > Actually, there is more to this than first appears; see below. > > there are performance tweaks you can make to the RF domain, and the link > layer that can help you there. dispensing with low speed rates, backward > compatibility, increasing the multicast rate and so forth. as a > practical matter if you want to keep the 2.4ghz band usable pushing as > many clients as possible to 802.11a/n. > Yup. Very important. A little broadcast/multicast can ruin your whole day, along with low speed hosts at the edge of an area. So by turning them off, you are preserving the performance of the WiFi hop (at the cost of usable range; a very good tradeoff in a conference venue, but less so elsewhere). > > while it's probably a tautology not having crappy wireless is in fact > the first step in not having a crappy wireless network. > Actually, in Dave Taht and Felix Fietkau digging into the Linux Atheros driver, there are a bunch of other issues. I would expect that commercial AP vendors have been similarly digging and fixing busted implementations. If you have a noisy environment, damaged PDU's can easily cause a form of input bufferbloat. TCP currently does not like out of order delivery of packets. So when a damaged aggregate arrives, the Linux wifi stack does not forward packets successfully received after the damaged packet immediately. You get a number of attempts to fix the damaged packet in that transmit opportunity (Andrew McGregor can explain in detail). Once the damaged packet is successfully received, all the queued packets can be released (until the next damaged packet). One of the changes Felix and Dave made in the Linux ath9k driver is to minimize this receive buffering (it was much larger than it needed to be), but also fix an infinite loop bug (also present in other Linux drivers), so that a single damaged packet can't cause very long delays and ensure the damaged packet gets dropped in a somewhat timely fashion. At one point, Dave Taht had seen > 1 second delay on simple ping packets. So it isn't just a crappy wireless network; it's also been crappy software/firmware. Ultimately, lots more work needs to be done in the Linux WiFi stack to rework its queuing entirely; that work is just underway. I note this because all the bufferbloat issues apply equally to hosts and home routers (most of which run Linux). While you may not be able to control your hosts (unless you are a Linux user), you can do something about your home router... And do so immediately, if you want to bother. > > I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working > > wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and > > IETF. > > the contractor is the same > > > So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a > > room of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denver > > to California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why > > the network was usable. > > > > At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should document > > what they do. I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request again. > > > > Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are a > > number of "tricks" that they play: > > > > 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their packets > > back to a big router. > > chris will chime in here I imagine. the APs are cisco 1142s which are > nice high-end dual radio APs but not in an exceptional sense. > > the big router in this case is a gibson arch juniper so it's also not > exceptional or particularly high capacity, nor is it doing a lot of > shaping of any variety becuase none of the interfaces are terribly > heavily utilized. > > in both cases overprovisioning works rather well. > > > 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run > > (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an > > issue. This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little > > aggregation of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel if > > you run OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation > > properly will still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack). > > 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certain > > operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). An early > > version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but I > > gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who > > have looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happens > > to have similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit > > marking/classification rules). > > Anton Capella was responsible for this in it's initial iterations. It's > not that uncommon for wireless carriers to employ a similar bag of tricks > Yup; I could not remember Anton's name. > > afaik we don't do any qos, since we don't have any queues to speak off. > IIRC, it was mostly diffserv marking to help certain packet types along. > > most traffic in the IETF network is north-south due to the hosts on the > network having little to do with each other. That's not really the case > in a homenet. Where some relatively huge flows may be between devices on > the same wireless lan e.g. timemachine backups occuring while you're > trying to stream video or maintain the responsiveness of your ssh session. > Yup. Homes are a great place to suffer from bufferbloat. > > > > > > Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at > > what is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured > > in enough detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done > > today. > > - Jim > > > > > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > 87attendees mailing list > > 87attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 87attendees mailing list > > 87attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > > --047d7b472078e1d52504e387327b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri= , Aug 9, 2013 at 1:11 PM, joel jaeggli <joelja@gmail.com> wro= te:
On 8/9/13 8:18 AM, Jim Gettys wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk
> <mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 Hi,
>
> =A0 =A0 Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise= .
> =A0 =A0 =A0Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, = such
> =A0 =A0 that we pretty much take it for granted. =A0Well done to every= one
> =A0 =A0 involved.
>
> =A0 =A0 Is there any information available on the solution that was > =A0 =A0 delivered? =A0From memory the APs were Cisco Aironet, but it w= ould be
> =A0 =A0 interesting to know about density, controllers, etc. =A0Usage = info,
> =A0 =A0 especially for IPv6, would be interesting too.
>
> =A0 =A0 If the info isn't available, so be it, but it might be of = interest
> =A0 =A0 to many...
>
>
> Bufferbloat kills you in many/most conference venues; IETF is one of t= he
> few where it does not.

unicast packets are delivered "reliably" on 802.11 networks= . really high
latency on the first hop is generally indicative of high noise
floor/lots of contention/pdu's getting clobbered. limiting
retransmission there (equivalent to a shallow buffer) may help you but
it just pushes the cost of retransmission (due to packet loss) to the
end-points rather than eliminating the source of restransmission.

Actually, there is more to this than first appears; see below.

there are performance tweaks you can make to the RF domain, and the link layer that can help you there. dispensing with low speed rates, backward compatibility, increasing the multicast rate and so forth. as a
practical matter if you want to keep the 2.4ghz band usable pushing as
many clients as possible to 802.11a/n.

Yup. =A0Very important. = =A0A little broadcast/multicast can ruin your whole day, along with low spe= ed hosts at the edge of an area. =A0So by turning them off, you are preserv= ing the performance of the WiFi hop (at the cost of usable range; a very go= od tradeoff in a conference venue, but less so elsewhere).

while it's probably a tautology not having crappy wireless is in fact the first step in not having a crappy wireless network.

Actually= , in Dave Taht and Felix Fietkau digging into the Linux Atheros driver, the= re are
a bunch of other iss= ues. =A0I would expect that commercial AP vendors have been similarly diggi= ng and fixing busted implementations.

If you hav= e a noisy environment, damaged PDU's can easily cause a form of input b= ufferbloat.
TCP currently does n= ot like out of order delivery of packets. =A0So when a damaged aggregate ar= rives, the Linux wifi stack does not forward packets successfully received = after the damaged packet immediately. You get a number of attempts to fix t= he damaged packet in that transmit opportunity (Andrew McGregor can explain= in detail). =A0Once the damaged packet is successfully received, all the q= ueued packets can be released (until the next damaged packet).

One of the changes Felix and D= ave made in the Linux ath9k driver is to minimize this receive buffering (i= t was much larger than it needed to be), but also fix an infinite loop bug = (also present in other Linux drivers), so that a single damaged packet can&= #39;t cause very long delays and ensure the damaged packet gets dropped in = a somewhat timely fashion. =A0At one point, Dave Taht had seen > 1 secon= d delay on simple ping packets.

So it isn't just a crappy = wireless network; it's also been crappy software/firmware.

Ultimately= , lots more work needs to be done in the Linux WiFi stack to rework its que= uing entirely; that work is just underway.=A0

I note thi= s because all the bufferbloat issues apply equally to hosts and home router= s (most of which run Linux). =A0While you may not be able to control your h= osts (unless you are a Linux user), you can do something about your home ro= uter... =A0And do so immediately, if you want to bother.


> I first noticed at the Denver NANOG a working
> wireless network; but the same people are involved in both NANOG and > IETF.

the contractor is the same

> So I poked into the topic to understand why. I was amazed to see a
> room of 500 heavy duty network people and observe latencies from Denve= r
> to California consistently under 50ms under load, and investigated why=
> the network was usable.
>
> At past IETF's I've urged the operation teams that they should= document
> what they do. =A0I did not have time in Berlin to repeat the request a= gain.
>
> Besides the layout of AP's that other good operators do, there are= a
> number of "tricks" that they play:
>
> 1) the AP's have minimal internal buffering, and forward their pac= kets
> back to a big router.

chris will chime in here I imagine. the APs are cisco 1142s which are=
nice high-end dual radio APs but not in an exceptional sense.

the big router in this case is a gibson arch juniper so it's also not exceptional or particularly high capacity, nor is it doing a lot of
shaping of any variety becuase none of the interfaces are terribly
heavily utilized.

in both cases overprovisioning works rather well.

> 2) the big router, having lots of aggregated traffic, is able/does run=
> (W)RED to keep the wireless traffic queues from being too much of an > issue. =A0This is hopeless in a home environment where you have little=
> aggregation of traffic (but there, you can now get help from fq_codel = if
> you run OpenWrt/CeroWrt on your home router; but to fix the situation<= br> > properly will still take a lot of work in Linux's WiFi stack).
> 3) There is some QOS/Diffserv tricks being played to prioritize certai= n
> operations (e.g. DNS lookup, TCP opens, acks, and so on). =A0 An early=
> version of the marking they do was documented at a NANOG meeting; but = I
> gather some later rules have been added since then. Those of you who > have looked at fq_codel in detail might recognize that fq_codel happen= s
> to have similar behavior (without needing the hair of such explicit > marking/classification rules).

Anton Capella was responsible for this in it's initial iterations= . It's
not that uncommon for wireless carriers to employ a similar bag of tricks

Yup; I could not remember Anton's name.

afaik we don't do any qos, since we don't have any queues to speak = off.

IIRC, it was mostly diffserv marking to help certain packet= types along.

most traffic in the IETF network is north-south due to the hosts on the
network having little to do with each other. That's not really the case=
in a homenet. Where some relatively huge flows may be between devices on the same wireless lan e.g. timemachine backups occuring while you're trying to stream video or maintain the responsiveness of your ssh session.<= br>

Yup. =A0Homes are a great place to suffer from bufferbloat.


>
> Anyone setting up an large event today should take a careful look at > what is being done, and it would be good to get the knowledge captured=
> in enough detail for others to reproduce their work, as it can be done=
> today.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Jim
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 Tim
> =A0 =A0 _______________________________________________
> =A0 =A0 87attendees mailing list
> =A0 =A0 87attendees@ietf= .org <mailto:87attendees@iet= f.org>
> =A0 =A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>


--047d7b472078e1d52504e387327b-- From swmike@swm.pp.se Fri Aug 9 11:28:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B07721F862B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 11:28:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.652 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.597, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ml+oY7qL6GQT for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 11:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2607211E8135 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 11:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6FE749C; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 20:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FB99A; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 20:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 20:20:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Chris Elliott In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:28:00 -0000 On Fri, 9 Aug 2013, Chris Elliott wrote: > evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suitability of > venues to host the network you all know and love is taken very > seriously, and has nixed many venues. How do the venues react when they hear that they're being rejected on these grounds? I'm still hoping network connectivity is going to not just be a cost center for venues going forward, but so far it seems it's still a checkbox feature that isn't taken very seriously. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From dch@jsonified.com Sat Aug 10 15:05:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744F611E80D5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.356 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.356 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-MQCad2JdgW for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x235.google.com (mail-lb0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE2F11E80D7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f181.google.com with SMTP id o10so3952850lbi.40 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:58:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jsonified.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=0UXfDfrmUCkDj1SV4v1+zJr0MSkU47GovfyMGuC22g0=; b=s627JsK/+sN22OnimwP1ETMZjiu8l4+S3uvkNKH9M/tSk29AXRrVWDcRowTeXgnJ50 TH4X3/I3WCYraDt23JNA+tA5s8YGkOz10K67yfkvyrRc0jPKw4DaYImEUvDb1xGvTlxY SL7D/NOtqIfWCCAEP48/eg52g0J2FrW2n5KYo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0UXfDfrmUCkDj1SV4v1+zJr0MSkU47GovfyMGuC22g0=; b=EW//wQ6wSaw/xDOQ37UPIBP6Pelt8qPdtQivskIGpkWl3to4Hn3XWBnAt/iGDqyfOH TPQ8KGLb/7FNVvh2dYpOvH0crknc0qpqE2Ctlmi++99+WkYxXs6m0M2Q3ZTzW9HqI777 M8ss0xCnkRyysImjjDD3zlEAEKEVdD7/eiUbW8nH0OoFmfzoIFI7XIvERwF55oNR2tnb KxEJf+NRACNsZE/cNL3iIHRpslbFTeIiyk6c0Ke1ll1Nn3mQtsH8PNxA8pIVSsxxi/2w NIJ69F+qilyBmnuR6UgwXey4F+gfKvVUdtujfcqUYz3A8Zq/0LZ3hxtWt3r49cOSOYaL g0vg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYa2sG6vFbn5b9GiKffaLzAnr2oCBwiPy9eayfpzhZqcc4Dhirsh9q9BkPzD02nBQm7iJk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.176 with SMTP id jp16mr6076859lab.17.1376171927533; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.70.229 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:58:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [84.112.19.176] In-Reply-To: References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 23:58:47 +0200 Message-ID: From: Dave Cottlehuber To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 22:05:07 -0000 On 5 August 2013 11:48, Tim Chown wrote: > Hi, > > Others have given the wireless network at this IETF due praise. Indeed the wireless has been excellent for many IETFs now, such that we pretty much take it for granted. Well done to everyone involved. +1 As a first time attendee here was my response: "easily best internet ever, anywhere."[1]. Not just well done, not just world class, but setting the standard for others to follow. I was surprised at how many apps and tools simply didn't handle IPv6 at all, but you can't ask a conference to fix that :-). [1]: https://twitter.com/dch__/status/362458818329853952 From rg+ietf@qualcomm.com Sun Aug 11 18:42:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E2421E8055 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:42:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <6uMqqRGCxt-l> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.279, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6uMqqRGCxt-l for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D452E11E8135 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:34:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1376271295; x=1407807295; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:date:to:from: subject:content-type; bh=b1BkuUAlxPCic40nmKZMi42MVEyR18Bjh5+5iA6Tcgc=; b=BDSU6QMlg+7LjKJ11XR7ljdHka1QA7ay7lG62V1W164+qvI8bNiWCp3e csUs12w2ClwjhcfWovJbQETGajA8RS88HiwjGQBAi+a4P/FLWex/Y2qZ3 9z8iGtUDPLCXjovUvMgNHVv7bmFqQH4hAPov0nSWH2h0b51bV6T+BAneh o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,858,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="67851230" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 11 Aug 2013 18:34:51 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,858,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="494079617" Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com ([129.46.50.49]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 11 Aug 2013 18:34:52 -0700 Received: from Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com (ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com [172.30.48.18]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id r7C1Ypla028310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:34:51 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,858,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="519265853" Received: from myvpn-l-898.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.131.130]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 11 Aug 2013 18:34:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <51F61F40.7040009@nomountain.net> <51F622CD.2030401@internet2.edu> <51FF8628.4030701@cisco.com> <89983860-411A-43DC-B5EA-BBB30B262D41@ecs.soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:27:16 -0700 To: Tim Chown , "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [87attendees] Jabber scribing -> etherpad? X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 01:42:40 -0000 At 12:06 AM +0100 8/6/13, Tim Chown wrote: > It would be simpler if people just spoke their name slowly and clearly :) I used to make a sort of joke out of it, saying my name very slowly and very clearly (exaggeratedly so). I figured it helped people hear it, it seemed to amuse people in the room, and it helped remind me to do it. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you're certain you're finished with, you will need it instantly. From joelja@gmail.com Mon Aug 12 09:08:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A507B21F94FF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6UF+iGnd6wrX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x229.google.com (mail-pd0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A963B21F9A26 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id r10so3577489pdi.0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:29:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cWYqQO1T394HUyV+fT8TC+20IaS2jBVe0ooUtzGrjPs=; b=ZE5ASQHKfN/0kYv08vqeVZaF/rezMHwhi3GJboouNoHreQ6qddXaydpOWENdhiI4ut fysyYFmER+Twtj14VWgAw4H40U9YzP+m8ozGkFodSeZ1MGmSWoVZeHRGgMPiZ4hEYU5B GMt1nbx+Dz3rdc5mvHbheWA+Ai0XmLYozWP8mMqo2R1Q0TflBDAaGC3d5Et4JZd05tTw EwX02Cb8bNqKKTvv0iEMWbwko1uUiA0+albDGMs8OAEon17YtJNWqTHPxk2bLwjR1tq6 W5ULKG4H+F/z7dZUKL3vYzwhrPpR4akECC2H9ofyrBmwRZaQ61QsVNWAsIyMxqKIvcVn utiw== X-Received: by 10.68.178.133 with SMTP id cy5mr14016121pbc.110.1376321365926; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com. [64.47.153.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wr9sm37969204pbc.7.2013.08.12.08.29.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5208FF53.70007@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:29:23 -0700 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Chris Elliott References: <767558DB-5546-4361-862E-0342F02AD435@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] IETF wireless X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:08:39 -0000 On 8/9/13 11:20 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Fri, 9 Aug 2013, Chris Elliott wrote: > >> evaluation and the technical recommendations on the suitability of >> venues to host the network you all know and love is taken very >> seriously, and has nixed many venues. > > How do the venues react when they hear that they're being rejected on > these grounds? I prefer to think of this as a positive choice. Given a options of between multiple venues with various features and attendant compromises it seems wise to pick the one with the best overall set of features. having no network infrastructure to speak of or a totally inadequate wiring plant is both an increasing rarity and pretty early survey item. > I'm still hoping network connectivity is going to not just be a cost > center for venues going forward, but so far it seems it's still a > checkbox feature that isn't taken very seriously. Some problems are hard to solve... we'd like a lot of attenuation between meeting rooms, which is hard if they're all part of one common space seperated by airwalls and it's less hard if the building is a concrete bunker. From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Mon Aug 12 12:41:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527D621F9F44 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:41:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VMlid+KRGLzu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F3621F9C0E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DE5BE56 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:40:54 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aQeB2sWX9KxU for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:40:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.8] (unknown [86.46.29.63]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B686BE55 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:40:53 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <52093A3A.5080504@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:40:42 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <3230F32D-7F81-4E8A-BEC4-FD5CAD0E19CA@isoc.org> In-Reply-To: <3230F32D-7F81-4E8A-BEC4-FD5CAD0E19CA@isoc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] ACTION: Berlin Meeting Survey X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 19:41:11 -0000 I always mean to put in a comment somewhere but forget, so here it is:-) The selection box for "iesg member etc" is fairly identifying, at least for me. Maybe think a bit sometime about whether that's the case for (too) many folks and try make it less identifying. No big deal though. Cheers, S. On 08/12/2013 06:51 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote: > All; > > We recently completed IETF 87 in Berlin. Did you think this was a good venue for an IETF meeting? Let us know. > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BXYB8K6 > > We do care about your opinions and make changes every meeting based on your feedback. > > Thanks > Ray > IAD > _______________________________________________ > 87all mailing list > 87all@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all > From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Mon Aug 12 13:19:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C937921F9E47 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rUEkDgUl4Lxw for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og114.obsmtp.com (exprod7og114.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.215]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6915E21F9E68 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob114.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUglDVIT9h42lbCJglQnNFr6txYzzKb9H@postini.com; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:32 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A361B82A3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 697CF19006D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from [10.0.10.40] (192.168.1.10) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:19:29 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1793.4\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <52093A3A.5080504@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:19:27 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <622483B5-3178-499D-A697-BA4D5D63D635@nominum.com> References: <3230F32D-7F81-4E8A-BEC4-FD5CAD0E19CA@isoc.org> <52093A3A.5080504@cs.tcd.ie> To: Stephen Farrell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1793.4) X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.10] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:29:58 -0700 Cc: "87attendees@" Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] ACTION: Berlin Meeting Survey X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:19:41 -0000 On Aug 12, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Stephen Farrell = wrote: > The selection box for "iesg member etc" is fairly identifying, > at least for me. Maybe think a bit sometime about whether > that's the case for (too) many folks and try make it less > identifying. I'm sure that when Ray looks at some of the comments in my responses, it = will be clear to him exactly who it was who responded. Hm, actually that's a bit of a problem=97I think that the comments can = be viewed. Oh well... From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Wed Aug 14 07:30:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D211E816F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mkpRgj17cKyF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x232.google.com (mail-ea0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AF921F9E68 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f178.google.com with SMTP id a15so4917725eae.9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=e1hHXwSfaGcsuhvVVBMC53GvUTSSNVl4nc9pmuYqUXk=; b=ZN3jjQ1lWzj9Wta9ezkmXw3anvN+wrOLhUBrflSK4AxWuE7+lq4N7sDR301/AoxEc0 kEYxBH+JRYp7047ud4fKz37mB2fXM6vMoROhLgzwYOzDmV0v9+K8BKg+C0YmiV43SqlT LzFOhR45SyXQYI8RH9WiRVo4xppXVzw5farSCSowpBhcxct7mv/XabypnMaZtZOACVHq HsbKfgyLiaHPif2mUBDOPb8U6s/fd6e+kCwpQ5tWodAwotps8se3J+gqHOLnUX/wlf3K CE6MLwTQMTk1EkVebAm357iHhTVL3sKu/C1S9gogxukwoVAX7qGtZbowW4U7w34dZpa5 oYyw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.29.67 with SMTP id h43mr15267222eea.7.1376490607857; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.203.71 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:30:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:30:07 -0500 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c370f2b7f3bb04e3e93131 Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:30:14 -0000 --001a11c370f2b7f3bb04e3e93131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it in Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, could they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel intercontinentally to get there? I don't know whether I'll be in the conference hotel in Dallas next time, but I was last time; it would be morally wrong to check me in after a 30-minute commute and walk someone else after 24 hours in transit :-) Spencer, who's not JUST jealous that he didn't get walked to one of the Nick cartoon suites ... On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, Ray Pelletier wrote: > All; > > I wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting in Berlin. > > IETF 87 Brings Record Number of Attendees! > > Congratulations! With 1,435 attendees (1,381 paid and 54 comped) in > Berlin, including 199 from Germany!, IETF 87 is the most attended meeting > since 1,450 attended IETF 63 in Paris in 2005. The IETF is now even more > global with representatives from 62 countries attending, a new high. See < > http://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/IETF-Regional-Attendance-00.pdf>. > > Rock-Solid Meeting Network! > > Once again attendees enjoyed a rock-solid network throughout the week. > There were very few tickets and only some early v6 failures that were > quickly resolved. > > The network team of Verilan and the IETF Volunteers (Vols) began arriving > Tuesday, 23 August to configure equipment and set up. Upon finding that > one of the Juniper routers had been damaged in transit, an emergency call > to Juniper resulted in two routers delivered immediately to the site. > Thank you Juniper. > > Thanks also to Deutsche Telekom (DT) for their early delivery of the > circuits and Clemens Schrimpe for getting the links up and tested in > advance, which significantly shortened the setup time. > > The Team was able to get the InterContinental guest rooms Internet > supported by the IETF shortly after noon on Friday, an event that usually > occurs Saturday or even Sunday. Great job. > > A pilot of the NAT64 network was set up and feedback is that it worked > reasonably well. > > Thanks to the IETF Vols and Verilan for another great meeting network. > > Value Added Tax (VAT) > > This was the first meeting the IAOC encountered the Value Added Tax (VAT) > and its impact on revenues and expenses. Upon advice of tax experts the > IAOC found that the IETF was required to charge a 19% VAT on meeting fees > in Germany. Instead of adding the VAT charge on top of the base > registration fee, the IAOC elected to include the VAT within the existing > fee structure. This means that registration revenues are lower than > previously expected, creating a shortfall of $137,000 USD. > > Employers may be be able to recover their employee's VAT on registration, > lodging and food and beverage. Additional details can be found at the VAT > FAQ: This impact to the > budget will be offset somewhat by our ability to recover VAT of about > $65,000 USD on meeting expenses. > > We are not yet certain how VAT may apply to future meetings, and are > currently investigating the tax regulations for both Vancouver and London. > When VAT charges do apply, the IAOC will review each situation and may > choose to implement the VAT differently than it was handled for IETF 87. > > Overbooking of InterContinental > > We were notified by the InterContinental that they were overbooked for > Sunday, 28 July and that they would be arranging and paying for > accommodations at a nearby five star hotel for 30 IETFers for that evening. > We requested that each affected attendee be notified in advance and also > that the InterContinental work to minimize the number who needed to be > moved. In the end there were 16 who stayed at the Hotel Palace and only > one who showed up at the InterContinental not having received the notice > prior to arrival. > > Onsite Issues > > There were a few glitches in the operations during the week, but > improvements were made quickly, such as the Grab-N-Go experience on Monday > and ensuring enough of the right kinds of soft drinks. > The Secretariat reports that it was very pleased with the responsiveness > and professionalism of the InterContinental staff. > > Remote Participation > > In response to feedback from remote participants a new section called > Remote Participation was added to the meeting home page to assist those > offsite with finding information they need in one location. It will remain > and be enhanced from community input. > > Bits-n-Bites > > Bits-N-Bites turned out to be a popular event again with good exhibits, a > great turnout and lots of food. Problems with shipping, customs and > electrical power created some anxiety before the event, but with quick work > by John Brzozowski and staff adaptations were made, and with these lessons > learned we anticipate such issues will not recur. > > I've listed all of the Berlin meeting and Bit-N-Bites sponsors below. > Thanks for your support. We could not have successful meetings without > you. Thanks again to DENIC for stepping up when we had no Host and > arranging for the social at the German Museum of Technology. It was grand. > > IETF 88 in Vancouver begins on 3 November, just 3 months from now. We > hope to see you there! > > Ray > IETF Administrative Director > > PS: See also IETF Chair, Jari Arkko, blog: > http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/08/meeting-summary/ > > IETF 87 Sponsors > > Platinum DENIC > Gold EURid > Gold DTAG > Bronze Dyn > Bronze eco > > Connectivity DTAG > > Welcome Reception EURid > > > Ice Cream Social ADVA Optical Networking > > Bits-N-Bites > A10 Networks > Comcast > Dyn > Huawei > ICANN > Internet Society > nominum > > > _______________________________________________ > 87all mailing list > 87all@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all > --001a11c370f2b7f3bb04e3e93131 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of = it in Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, c= ould they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel inter= continentally to get there?

I don't know whether I'll be in the conference hotel= in Dallas next time, but I was last time; it would be morally wrong to che= ck me in after a 30-minute commute and walk=A0someone else=A0after 24 hours= in transit :-)

Spencer, who's not JUST jealous that he didn't = get walked to one of the Nick cartoon=A0suites ...

On W= ednesday, August 14, 2013, Ray Pelletier wrote:
All;

I wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting in Berlin.

IETF 87 Brings Record Number of Attendees!

Congratulations! =A0With 1,435 attendees (1,381 paid and 54 comped) in Berl= in, including 199 from Germany!, IETF 87 is the most attended meeting since= 1,450 attended IETF 63 in Paris in 2005. =A0The IETF is now even more glob= al with representatives from 62 countries attending, a new high. =A0See <= ;http://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/IETF-Regional-Attendance-= 00.pdf>.

Rock-Solid Meeting Network!

Once again attendees enjoyed a rock-solid network throughout the week. =A0T= here were very few tickets and only some early v6 failures that were quickl= y resolved.

The network team of Verilan and the IETF Volunteers (Vols) began arriving T= uesday, 23 August to configure equipment and set up. =A0Upon finding that o= ne of the Juniper routers had been damaged in transit, an emergency call to= Juniper resulted in two routers delivered immediately to the site. =A0Than= k you Juniper.

Thanks also to Deutsche Telekom (DT) for their early delivery of the circui= ts and Clemens Schrimpe for getting the links up and tested in advance, whi= ch significantly shortened the setup time.

The Team was able to get the InterContinental guest rooms Internet supporte= d by the IETF shortly after noon on Friday, an event that usually occurs Sa= turday or even Sunday. =A0Great job.

A pilot of the NAT64 network was set up and feedback is that it worked reas= onably well.

Thanks to the IETF Vols and Verilan for another great meeting network.

Value Added Tax (VAT)

This was the first meeting the IAOC encountered the Value Added Tax (VAT) a= nd its impact on revenues and expenses. =A0Upon advice of tax experts the I= AOC found that the IETF was required to charge a 19% VAT on meeting fees in= Germany. =A0Instead of adding the VAT charge on top of the base registrati= on fee, the IAOC elected to include the VAT within the existing fee structu= re. =A0This means that registration revenues are lower than previously expe= cted, creating a shortfall of $137,000 USD.

Employers may be be able to recover their employee's VAT on registratio= n, lodging and food and beverage. =A0Additional details can be found at the= VAT FAQ: =A0<https://www.ietf.org/meeting/87/vat.html> =A0This impac= t to the budget will be offset somewhat by our ability to recover VAT of ab= out $65,000 USD on meeting expenses.

We are not yet certain how VAT may apply to future meetings, and are curren= tly investigating the tax regulations for both Vancouver and London. When V= AT charges do apply, the IAOC will review each situation and may choose to = implement the VAT differently than it was handled for IETF 87.

Overbooking of InterContinental

We were notified by the InterContinental that they were overbooked for Sund= ay, 28 July and that they would be arranging and paying for accommodations = at a nearby five star hotel for 30 IETFers for that evening. =A0We requeste= d that each affected attendee be notified in advance and also that the Inte= rContinental work to minimize the number who needed to be moved. =A0In the = end there were 16 who stayed at the Hotel Palace and only one who showed up= at the InterContinental not having received the notice prior to arrival.
Onsite Issues

There were a few glitches in the operations during the week, but improvemen= ts were made quickly, such as the Grab-N-Go experience on Monday and ensuri= ng enough of the right kinds of soft drinks.
The Secretariat reports that it was very pleased with the responsiveness an= d professionalism of the InterContinental staff.

Remote Participation

In response to feedback from remote participants a new section called Remot= e Participation was added to the meeting home page to assist those offsite = with finding information they need in one location. =A0It will remain and b= e enhanced from community input.

Bits-n-Bites

Bits-N-Bites turned out to be a popular event again with good exhibits, a g= reat turnout and lots of food. =A0Problems with shipping, customs and elect= rical power created some anxiety before the event, but with quick work by J= ohn Brzozowski and staff adaptations were made, and with these lessons lear= ned we anticipate such issues will not recur.

I've listed all of the Berlin meeting and Bit-N-Bites sponsors below. = =A0Thanks for your support. =A0We could not have successful meetings withou= t you. =A0Thanks again to DENIC for stepping up when we had no Host and arr= anging for the social at the German Museum of Technology. =A0It was grand.<= br>
IETF 88 in Vancouver begins on 3 November, just 3 months from now. =A0We ho= pe to see you there!

Ray
IETF Administrative Director

PS: =A0See also IETF Chair, Jari Arkko, blog: =A0http://www.ietf.org/b= log/2013/08/meeting-summary/

IETF 87 Sponsors

Platinum =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0DEN= IC
Gold =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0EURid
Gold =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0DTAG
Bronze =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Dyn
Bronze =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0eco

Connectivity =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0DTAG

Welcome Reception =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 EURid


Ice Cream Social =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ADVA Optical Networking

Bits-N-Bites
=A0A10 Networks
=A0Comcast
=A0Dyn
=A0Huawei
=A0ICANN
=A0Internet Society
=A0nominum


_______________________________________________
87all mailing list
87all@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all
--001a11c370f2b7f3bb04e3e93131-- From rpelletier@isoc.org Wed Aug 14 07:35:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AA511E8169 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:35:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.146, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikwyfdL+i-UV for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp73.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp73.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5549F21F996A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 323C91E8362; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:35:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp2.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id A1B551E835C; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-57-899244342 From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:35:19 -0400 Message-Id: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> References: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:35:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail-57-899244342 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it = in Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, = could they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel = intercontinentally to get there? That's a good question. Do others feel the same way? Of course, as in = Orlando, they asked us to select ones not to move and we refused. There = are no VIPs. We asked them to make the selection a random one. Ray >=20 > I don't know whether I'll be in the conference hotel in Dallas next = time, but I was last time; it would be morally wrong to check me in = after a 30-minute commute and walk someone else after 24 hours in = transit :-) >=20 > Spencer, who's not JUST jealous that he didn't get walked to one of = the Nick cartoon suites ... >=20 > On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, Ray Pelletier wrote: > All; >=20 > I wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting in Berlin. >=20 > IETF 87 Brings Record Number of Attendees! >=20 > Congratulations! With 1,435 attendees (1,381 paid and 54 comped) in = Berlin, including 199 from Germany!, IETF 87 is the most attended = meeting since 1,450 attended IETF 63 in Paris in 2005. The IETF is now = even more global with representatives from 62 countries attending, a new = high. See = . >=20 > Rock-Solid Meeting Network! >=20 > Once again attendees enjoyed a rock-solid network throughout the week. = There were very few tickets and only some early v6 failures that were = quickly resolved. >=20 > The network team of Verilan and the IETF Volunteers (Vols) began = arriving Tuesday, 23 August to configure equipment and set up. Upon = finding that one of the Juniper routers had been damaged in transit, an = emergency call to Juniper resulted in two routers delivered immediately = to the site. Thank you Juniper. >=20 > Thanks also to Deutsche Telekom (DT) for their early delivery of the = circuits and Clemens Schrimpe for getting the links up and tested in = advance, which significantly shortened the setup time. >=20 > The Team was able to get the InterContinental guest rooms Internet = supported by the IETF shortly after noon on Friday, an event that = usually occurs Saturday or even Sunday. Great job. >=20 > A pilot of the NAT64 network was set up and feedback is that it worked = reasonably well. >=20 > Thanks to the IETF Vols and Verilan for another great meeting network. >=20 > Value Added Tax (VAT) >=20 > This was the first meeting the IAOC encountered the Value Added Tax = (VAT) and its impact on revenues and expenses. Upon advice of tax = experts the IAOC found that the IETF was required to charge a 19% VAT on = meeting fees in Germany. Instead of adding the VAT charge on top of the = base registration fee, the IAOC elected to include the VAT within the = existing fee structure. This means that registration revenues are lower = than previously expected, creating a shortfall of $137,000 USD. >=20 > Employers may be be able to recover their employee's VAT on = registration, lodging and food and beverage. Additional details can be = found at the VAT FAQ: This = impact to the budget will be offset somewhat by our ability to recover = VAT of about $65,000 USD on meeting expenses. >=20 > We are not yet certain how VAT may apply to future meetings, and are = currently investigating the tax regulations for both Vancouver and = London. When VAT charges do apply, the IAOC will review each situation = and may choose to implement the VAT differently than it was handled for = IETF 87. >=20 > Overbooking of InterContinental >=20 > We were notified by the InterContinental that they were overbooked for = Sunday, 28 July and that they would be arranging and paying for = accommodations at a nearby five star hotel for 30 IETFers for that = evening. We requested that each affected attendee be notified in = advance and also that the InterContinental work to minimize the number = who needed to be moved. In the end there were 16 who stayed at the = Hotel Palace and only one who showed up at the InterContinental not = having received the notice prior to arrival. >=20 > Onsite Issues >=20 > There were a few glitches in the operations during the week, but = improvements were made quickly, such as the Grab-N-Go experience on = Monday and ensuring enough of the right kinds of soft drinks. > The Secretariat reports that it was very pleased with the = responsiveness and professionalism of the InterContinental staff. >=20 > Remote Participation >=20 > In response to feedback from remote participants a new section called = Remote Participation was added to the meeting home page to assist those = offsite with finding information they need in one location. It will = remain and be enhanced from community input. >=20 > Bits-n-Bites >=20 > Bits-N-Bites turned out to be a popular event again with good = exhibits, a great turnout and lots of food. Problems with shipping, = customs and electrical power created some anxiety before the event, but = with quick work by John Brzozowski and staff adaptations were made, and = with these lessons learned we anticipate such issues will not recur. >=20 > I've listed all of the Berlin meeting and Bit-N-Bites sponsors below. = Thanks for your support. We could not have successful meetings without = you. Thanks again to DENIC for stepping up when we had no Host and = arranging for the social at the German Museum of Technology. It was = grand. >=20 > IETF 88 in Vancouver begins on 3 November, just 3 months from now. We = hope to see you there! >=20 > Ray > IETF Administrative Director >=20 > PS: See also IETF Chair, Jari Arkko, blog: = http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/08/meeting-summary/ >=20 > IETF 87 Sponsors >=20 > Platinum DENIC > Gold EURid > Gold DTAG > Bronze Dyn > Bronze eco >=20 > Connectivity DTAG >=20 > Welcome Reception EURid >=20 >=20 > Ice Cream Social ADVA Optical Networking >=20 > Bits-N-Bites > A10 Networks > Comcast > Dyn > Huawei > ICANN > Internet Society > nominum >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87all mailing list > 87all@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail-57-899244342 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:

Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it in Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, could they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel intercontinentally to get there?

That's a good question.  Do others feel the same way?  Of course, as in Orlando, they asked us to select ones not to move and we refused.  There are no VIPs.  We asked them to make the selection a random one.

Ray


I don't know whether I'll be in the conference hotel in Dallas next time, but I was last time; it would be morally wrong to check me in after a 30-minute commute and walk someone else after 24 hours in transit :-)

Spencer, who's not JUST jealous that he didn't get walked to one of the Nick cartoon suites ...

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, Ray Pelletier wrote:
All;

I wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting in Berlin.

IETF 87 Brings Record Number of Attendees!

Congratulations!  With 1,435 attendees (1,381 paid and 54 comped) in Berlin, including 199 from Germany!, IETF 87 is the most attended meeting since 1,450 attended IETF 63 in Paris in 2005.  The IETF is now even more global with representatives from 62 countries attending, a new high.  See <http://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/IETF-Regional-Attendance-00.pdf>.

Rock-Solid Meeting Network!

Once again attendees enjoyed a rock-solid network throughout the week.  There were very few tickets and only some early v6 failures that were quickly resolved.

The network team of Verilan and the IETF Volunteers (Vols) began arriving Tuesday, 23 August to configure equipment and set up.  Upon finding that one of the Juniper routers had been damaged in transit, an emergency call to Juniper resulted in two routers delivered immediately to the site.  Thank you Juniper.

Thanks also to Deutsche Telekom (DT) for their early delivery of the circuits and Clemens Schrimpe for getting the links up and tested in advance, which significantly shortened the setup time.

The Team was able to get the InterContinental guest rooms Internet supported by the IETF shortly after noon on Friday, an event that usually occurs Saturday or even Sunday.  Great job.

A pilot of the NAT64 network was set up and feedback is that it worked reasonably well.

Thanks to the IETF Vols and Verilan for another great meeting network.

Value Added Tax (VAT)

This was the first meeting the IAOC encountered the Value Added Tax (VAT) and its impact on revenues and expenses.  Upon advice of tax experts the IAOC found that the IETF was required to charge a 19% VAT on meeting fees in Germany.  Instead of adding the VAT charge on top of the base registration fee, the IAOC elected to include the VAT within the existing fee structure.  This means that registration revenues are lower than previously expected, creating a shortfall of $137,000 USD.

Employers may be be able to recover their employee's VAT on registration, lodging and food and beverage.  Additional details can be found at the VAT FAQ:  <https://www.ietf.org/meeting/87/vat.html>  This impact to the budget will be offset somewhat by our ability to recover VAT of about $65,000 USD on meeting expenses.

We are not yet certain how VAT may apply to future meetings, and are currently investigating the tax regulations for both Vancouver and London. When VAT charges do apply, the IAOC will review each situation and may choose to implement the VAT differently than it was handled for IETF 87.

Overbooking of InterContinental

We were notified by the InterContinental that they were overbooked for Sunday, 28 July and that they would be arranging and paying for accommodations at a nearby five star hotel for 30 IETFers for that evening.  We requested that each affected attendee be notified in advance and also that the InterContinental work to minimize the number who needed to be moved.  In the end there were 16 who stayed at the Hotel Palace and only one who showed up at the InterContinental not having received the notice prior to arrival.

Onsite Issues

There were a few glitches in the operations during the week, but improvements were made quickly, such as the Grab-N-Go experience on Monday and ensuring enough of the right kinds of soft drinks.
The Secretariat reports that it was very pleased with the responsiveness and professionalism of the InterContinental staff.

Remote Participation

In response to feedback from remote participants a new section called Remote Participation was added to the meeting home page to assist those offsite with finding information they need in one location.  It will remain and be enhanced from community input.

Bits-n-Bites

Bits-N-Bites turned out to be a popular event again with good exhibits, a great turnout and lots of food.  Problems with shipping, customs and electrical power created some anxiety before the event, but with quick work by John Brzozowski and staff adaptations were made, and with these lessons learned we anticipate such issues will not recur.

I've listed all of the Berlin meeting and Bit-N-Bites sponsors below.  Thanks for your support.  We could not have successful meetings without you.  Thanks again to DENIC for stepping up when we had no Host and arranging for the social at the German Museum of Technology.  It was grand.

IETF 88 in Vancouver begins on 3 November, just 3 months from now.  We hope to see you there!

Ray
IETF Administrative Director

PS:  See also IETF Chair, Jari Arkko, blog:  http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/08/meeting-summary/

IETF 87 Sponsors

Platinum                                DENIC
Gold                            EURid
Gold                            DTAG
Bronze                          Dyn
Bronze                          eco

Connectivity                    DTAG

Welcome Reception               EURid


Ice Cream Social                ADVA Optical Networking

Bits-N-Bites
 A10 Networks
 Comcast
 Dyn
 Huawei
 ICANN
 Internet Society
 nominum


_______________________________________________
87all mailing list
87all@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--Apple-Mail-57-899244342-- From ynir@checkpoint.com Wed Aug 14 07:40:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC1011E81EC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DDnfv-BhKIn4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE74F11E81F0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7EEeGAH007284; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:40:16 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {520B96D0-1B-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:40:15 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Ray Pelletier Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPcv4SwysdbAb0mIcAwzej8Y35mUkVKAgAABdICAAAF5gA== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:40:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> In-Reply-To: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.33] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 112f49eed0fbcf95eac8d2c1a60616ae802d3b81f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:40:26 -0000 On Aug 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote: >=20 > On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >=20 >> Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it in= Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, could = they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel intercontinent= ally to get there? >=20 > That's a good question. Do others feel the same way? Of course, as in O= rlando, they asked us to select ones not to move and we refused. There are= no VIPs. We asked them to make the selection a random one. >=20 I don't. Once you've had to fly in, it doesn't make much of a difference wh= ether you've flown a couple of hours (like if you come to Vancouver from To= ronto), or from the other side of the world. From dharkins@arubanetworks.com Wed Aug 14 07:54:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC31311E814C for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:54:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B3f29OeWMNol for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com (sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com [199.127.104.60]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F009D11E81EC for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1376492032-03d13446519f0b70001-zkFhpE Received: from DIAMONDPEAK.arubanetworks.com (diamondpeak.arubanetworks.com [10.1.8.23]) by sjcbarracuda02.arubanetworks.com with ESMTP id a6lQkadvZEOylxyo (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: dharkins@arubanetworks.com X-Barracuda-RBL-Trusted-Forwarder: 10.1.8.23 Received: from SJC-EXCH10HC-02.arubanetworks.com (10.1.8.46) by DIAMONDPEAK.arubanetworks.com (10.1.8.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:53:51 -0700 Received: from SQUAWVALLEY.arubanetworks.com ([fe80::7480:7ea2:60b2:c722]) by sjc-exch10hc-02.arubanetworks.com ([fe80::e963:5151:18c5:55be%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 07:53:51 -0700 X-Barracuda-RBL-Trusted-Forwarder: 10.1.8.23 From: Dan Harkins X-Barracuda-BWL-IP: fe80::7480:7ea2:60b2:c722 To: Ray Pelletier , Spencer Dawkins at IETF Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPcp0ZAvki7g60SFsn6MJo9t8JmVOPaAgAABdID//4/TAA== Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:53:50 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.1.8.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <136C973444E79B4191BDA98202D559F7@arubanetworks.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: diamondpeak.arubanetworks.com[10.1.8.23] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1376492032 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES128-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.2.1.21:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at arubanetworks.com X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests=BSF_SC5_SA210e X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.138374 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 BSF_SC5_SA210e Custom Rule SA210e Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:54:03 -0000 On 8/14/13 7:35 AM, "Ray Pelletier" wrote: > >On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > >Ray, this is just a thought, and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it in >Orlando, but if the conference hotel can tag 30 walkers in advance, could >they go one step further and tag 30 people who didn't travel >intercontinentally to get > there? > >That's a good question. Do others feel the same way? Of course, as in >Orlando, they asked us to select ones not to move and we refused. There >are no VIPs. We asked them to make the selection a random one. When I checked in I had just arrived in Berlin after 10 days vacation in Europe-- my flight was around 2 hours. The extremely nice woman at the counter looked at my (US) passport and assumed I had just arrived on a transatlantic flight and commented about how tired I must be and would I like to be upgraded to a junior suite.=20 The point is, I don't think we enter our commute/travel times when we register so random is the fairest way of handling this sort of thing. Dan. > >Ray > > > > >I don't know whether I'll be in the conference hotel in Dallas next time, >but I was last time; it would be morally wrong to check me in after a >30-minute commute and walk someone else after 24 hours in transit :-) > > >Spencer, who's not JUST jealous that he didn't get walked to one of the >Nick cartoon suites ... > >On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, Ray Pelletier wrote: > >All; > >I wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting in Berlin. > >IETF 87 Brings Record Number of Attendees! > >Congratulations! With 1,435 attendees (1,381 paid and 54 comped) in >Berlin, including 199 from Germany!, IETF 87 is the most attended meeting >since 1,450 attended IETF 63 in Paris in 2005. The IETF is now even more >global with representatives from 62 countries > attending, a new high. See >. > >Rock-Solid Meeting Network! > >Once again attendees enjoyed a rock-solid network throughout the week. >There were very few tickets and only some early v6 failures that were >quickly resolved. > >The network team of Verilan and the IETF Volunteers (Vols) began arriving >Tuesday, 23 August to configure equipment and set up. Upon finding that >one of the Juniper routers had been damaged in transit, an emergency call >to Juniper resulted in two routers delivered > immediately to the site. Thank you Juniper. > >Thanks also to Deutsche Telekom (DT) for their early delivery of the >circuits and Clemens Schrimpe for getting the links up and tested in >advance, which significantly shortened the setup time. > >The Team was able to get the InterContinental guest rooms Internet >supported by the IETF shortly after noon on Friday, an event that usually >occurs Saturday or even Sunday. Great job. > >A pilot of the NAT64 network was set up and feedback is that it worked >reasonably well. > >Thanks to the IETF Vols and Verilan for another great meeting network. > >Value Added Tax (VAT) > >This was the first meeting the IAOC encountered the Value Added Tax (VAT) >and its impact on revenues and expenses. Upon advice of tax experts the >IAOC found that the IETF was required to charge a 19% VAT on meeting fees >in Germany. Instead of adding the VAT > charge on top of the base registration fee, the IAOC elected to include >the VAT within the existing fee structure. This means that registration >revenues are lower than previously expected, creating a shortfall of >$137,000 USD. > >Employers may be be able to recover their employee's VAT on registration, >lodging and food and beverage. Additional details can be found at the >VAT FAQ: > This impact to the budget will be offset somewhat by our ability to >recover VAT of about $65,000 USD on meeting expenses. > >We are not yet certain how VAT may apply to future meetings, and are >currently investigating the tax regulations for both Vancouver and >London. When VAT charges do apply, the IAOC will review each situation >and may choose to implement the VAT differently than > it was handled for IETF 87. > >Overbooking of InterContinental > >We were notified by the InterContinental that they were overbooked for >Sunday, 28 July and that they would be arranging and paying for >accommodations at a nearby five star hotel for 30 IETFers for that >evening. We requested that each affected attendee be notified > in advance and also that the InterContinental work to minimize the >number who needed to be moved. In the end there were 16 who stayed at >the Hotel Palace and only one who showed up at the InterContinental not >having received the notice prior to arrival. > >Onsite Issues > >There were a few glitches in the operations during the week, but >improvements were made quickly, such as the Grab-N-Go experience on >Monday and ensuring enough of the right kinds of soft drinks. >The Secretariat reports that it was very pleased with the responsiveness >and professionalism of the InterContinental staff. > >Remote Participation > >In response to feedback from remote participants a new section called >Remote Participation was added to the meeting home page to assist those >offsite with finding information they need in one location. It will >remain and be enhanced from community input. > >Bits-n-Bites > >Bits-N-Bites turned out to be a popular event again with good exhibits, a >great turnout and lots of food. Problems with shipping, customs and >electrical power created some anxiety before the event, but with quick >work by John Brzozowski and staff adaptations > were made, and with these lessons learned we anticipate such issues will >not recur. > >I've listed all of the Berlin meeting and Bit-N-Bites sponsors below. >Thanks for your support. We could not have successful meetings without >you. Thanks again to DENIC for stepping up when we had no Host and >arranging for the social at the German Museum > of Technology. It was grand. > >IETF 88 in Vancouver begins on 3 November, just 3 months from now. We >hope to see you there! > >Ray >IETF Administrative Director > >PS: See also IETF Chair, Jari Arkko, blog: >http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/08/meeting-summary/ > >IETF 87 Sponsors > >Platinum DENIC >Gold EURid >Gold DTAG >Bronze Dyn >Bronze eco > >Connectivity DTAG > >Welcome Reception EURid > > >Ice Cream Social ADVA Optical Networking > >Bits-N-Bites > A10 Networks > Comcast > Dyn > Huawei > ICANN > Internet Society > nominum > > >_______________________________________________ >87all mailing list >87all@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87all > > > >_______________________________________________ >87attendees mailing list >87attendees@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > > > From ole@cisco.com Wed Aug 14 08:03:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5100A11E81F2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:03:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vGI+xfxwedLE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B66921E80B7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=924; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376492622; x=1377702222; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=SK9jeugs57PpHwYou1uwUiDlP6847O47qyINMJve/Uo=; b=bHjO6kToSrw3lyPOzoH3GNJnxJ3Hm3/xgoj72X+ceZUiVeo2UdFE35FG DQ8qcl9dMJpXZfkxYBQkcm3D1dAbJjkoUrshF+vWfUlHSTWxqsmLYi2+k lve5vxCqAQW+BCyJ2b1Wo8tBMSKhNwQpgdREfP6sGkdu9t47X9d5PrX9L w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjgFAHybC1KrRDoI/2dsb2JhbABbgwasGgGTT4EjFnSCJAEBAQMBOj8FCwsOOFcGiB0FuTCPIIEwB4QSA4ktlGCLKYM7HIEu X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,877,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="89159666" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Aug 2013 15:03:28 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7EF3Pv7003131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:03:25 GMT Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Dan Harkins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ray Pelletier , Spencer Dawkins at IETF Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:03:58 -0000 On Wed, 14 Aug 2013, Dan Harkins wrote: > When I checked in I had just arrived in Berlin after 10 days > vacation in Europe-- my flight was around 2 hours. The extremely > nice woman at the counter looked at my (US) passport and assumed I > had just arrived on a transatlantic flight and commented about how > tired I must be and would I like to be upgraded to a junior suite. > > The point is, I don't think we enter our commute/travel times when > we register so random is the fairest way of handling this sort of > thing. > > Dan. > Same here, sort of. I came by train from Leipzig which is about an hour from Berlin. The A/C in our car failed so I am sure I was just as grumpy and tired as some of the ones who had travelled much further that day ;=) The Club Lounge at the Intercontinental was amongst the best I have ever experienced. Definitely worth the extra cost. Ole From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Aug 14 08:33:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B532111E8170 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:33:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.84 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.84 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qkZu8AX+XitV for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA11721F9CFB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (nat-07-mht.dyndns.com [216.146.45.246]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71CF28A031 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:33:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:33:27 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: 87attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:33:36 -0000 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 02:40:15PM +0000, Yoav Nir wrote: > > I don't. Once you've had to fly in, it doesn't make much of a difference whether you've flown a couple of hours (like if you come to Vancouver from Toronto), or from the other side of the world. > This isn't my experience. I have often flown a couple hours and then gone directly to a meeting -- it's not much different to me than driving a couple hours (and indeed, is often less stressful). But trans-oceanic (or trans-continental, for that matter) flights seem to be much worse. My personal limit appears to be somewhere between 2 and 3 hours travel time. Within that, I don't seem to find the trip any more tiring than I used to find commuting by car to an office. Outside of that, I usually want to rest. This is as true by train, however, so I don't think it's the conveyancce that matters. Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Wed Aug 14 08:35:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF6C21F9E37 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:35:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wAndGtxRaRSB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com (exprod7og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.167]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4539B21F9DBE for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUgujoEJ4AROEapH28BePrvoqllx1TeF2@postini.com; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:57 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9DF1B8294 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8523B19006D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from [10.0.10.40] (192.168.1.10) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:34:56 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1793.4\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:34:53 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> To: Ray Pelletier X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1793.4) X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.10] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:39:49 -0700 Cc: "87attendees@" , Spencer Dawkins at IETF Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:35:04 -0000 On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Ray Pelletier wrote: > That's a good question. Do others feel the same way? Of course, as = in Orlando, they asked us to select ones not to move and we refused. = There are no VIPs. We asked them to make the selection a random one. Libert=E9, =E9galit=E9, fraternit=E9! That said, there are several problems with this proposal. First, how = do we know where people are coming from? They may not be coming from = home, and they may have registered with a corporate address a continent = away from home. Second, what is happening the next day? If I'd been = walked Saturday night, I would have faced an early morning with less = sleep and a longer walk. A non-IESG, non-IAB participant likely would = have slept in. So I think singling Spencer out to be walked because he = lives in Dallas might actually be a bad outcome, although I agree that = we shouldn't treat him (or me) like a VIP either. I tend to agree that letting the hotel choose randomly is a better idea = than playing favorites, but of course the hotel will choose = non-rewards-program or low-tier rewards program members over others, so = that could produce a less than desirable outcome. Probably the most = egalitarian outcome would result from the ISOC doing a random drawing. = But honestly, is it worth all the effort? From moore@network-heretics.com Wed Aug 14 08:45:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8E621F99EC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:45:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Er1+617LQoN for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9046B11E814C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.45]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C95216EB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:45:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=MnpWMOzVVu6M1r5ghWuupF yVxbU=; b=HJZTlhbMdE8ELizs0RWv5QfBFd6UiF4exJ6Ej8J71WErZWJC6J9d6i mZLVKCzJWCKI7WoeORMq3FmluadwPP45Hn2i7NxDKAQ2ALyxjZCrcDBOEXhP5hvB yHZ/I+Ty2ICZbqCJ5PaxSu0C/jPBe5k4XQkYQO55CPoAewqdNYr1U= X-Sasl-enc: iAb73xgtHeJqBHlfkjUnQDu20OFMmp2upnMHfF0OyhxN 1376495139 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (unknown [65.16.145.177]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AE7416801E2; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <520BA609.2020601@network-heretics.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:45:13 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:45:51 -0000 On 08/14/2013 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the > registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list > if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the > secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. Put me within 5 minutes walking distance and buy me lunch at the conference hotel every day (ok, maybe 3 times), and I'm in. Keith From brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com Wed Aug 14 09:21:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076F411E817D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmSogRgW5DIh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760B311E817A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id ep20so586627lab.29 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=rRSv75rvd0sDiJtGnzoj7ZAd08UfGVhWKDw1gkg/Wyg=; b=sxpP2zfnBCelluQuQ8DiK+fo5Q0p4syWjDR/ossFi+cs8wQOAcQaYnf73gQRiOmLJL gOvV4Q75mVR3+9zAq7p+Gvcer6LsgUueBBgF9UFMnK2KNmqZwLPVd1Dd8GJ5EabtXsXT DAN0vO5Lq/NNyqFTVSnbc6mqttCjz/CIEn1+FBSYz8jcZkjFgrGrmgXxN26CbZ4fv3/L n7Freq1ks8G4hJ5gQxeuUp+Dy6bXvwYPZjUl9QCC1xhsEtvN/wBw2+obmsXPfCMfXS7Q PiUrVn0dnn/46GpY+5DdySQ8v14UXEuC0j0Vi11n3/F4sxVLQ9gte+mTxYm1fGTGBRPZ U+gA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.29.147 with SMTP id k19mr8829166lbh.9.1376497257244; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.98 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Brian Dickson To: Andrew Sullivan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133aa860d6e9304e3eabe95 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:21:03 -0000 --001a1133aa860d6e9304e3eabe95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the > registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list > if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the > secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. > I agree that this is a good idea. Note that there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated with one or more free nights. For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they want. (For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm happy to let others volunteer.) Brian --001a1133aa860d6e9304e3eabe95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan <a= js@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:
<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">

Maybe we could self-select, though. =A0We could add a checkbox to the
registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees l= ist
if the hotel bumps me." =A0In the event there's a problem, the
secretariat could provide the list to the hotel.

<= /div>
I agree that this is a good idea.

Note t= hat there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated with one or m= ore free nights.
For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they want.=
(For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm ha= ppy to let others volunteer.)

Brian
--001a1133aa860d6e9304e3eabe95-- From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Wed Aug 14 09:23:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E5111E816E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:23:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwVdCysvVqlx for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E0811E81F2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fda8e0000024c6-73-520baee9396f Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 13.F8.09414.9EEAB025; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:23:05 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: Brian Dickson Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPrW+K1iwWPULUiYWIOBXJmYAZmVCBiAgAABYYCAAA7dgIAADUWA//+9imo= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:23:04 +0000 Message-ID: <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_60958B6BA77C4A83A5CD336432DBA8D7ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO6rddxBBkdeMFo8bNrJZnHg8zUm i7a7HA7MHs9OvmL32DnrLrvHkiU/mQKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyFp3IKVgiXfHjwV32Bsbd 4l2MHBwSAiYSy97odDFyApliEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4yijx/+MSZghnOaPEn/0XWEGq2AR0JL5d 72IGsUUEDCW2/ZoFZjMLxErMf/IRzBYWcJD4+3UTI0SNo8T/psVMELafxLtXl8FsFgFViYfb W5lBjuAVsJe40l0Pses2k8S2voNgvZwCgRITLvwGq2cEuu77qTVMELvEJW49mc8EcbWAxJI9 55khbFGJl4//sULUJEv82HmWDcTmFRCUODnzCcsERpFZSNpnISmbhaQMIq4jsWD3JzYIW1ti 2cLXzDD2mQOPmZDFFzCyr2LkKC1OLctNNzLYxAiMpmMSbLo7GPe8tDzEKM3BoiTOu0rvTKCQ QHpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGxvrt0gyXmT64aTfcVt7/0Mnzf/jvTcY3Uvmm3rnR f6bqzyFOY4vI2mbxsm1iX6/rTFD9tmmF39HOw8bfH7+ZxbNb+tK/6ohQnmu71h346sxffUdd 5mz9BF2mz28jIve//jx19cQ/C07ucRe7uKuuzOL+ip9+r4u9FzSpSj/Qu+30/0bcTzWPU1pK LMUZiYZazEXFiQCfPeYvdAIAAA== Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:23:43 -0000 --_000_60958B6BA77C4A83A5CD336432DBA8D7ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 14, 2013, at 9:21 AM, "Brian Dickson" > wrote: On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan > wrote: Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. I agree that this is a good idea. Note that there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated with on= e or more free nights. For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they want. (For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm happy to let others v= olunteer.) Brian _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --_000_60958B6BA77C4A83A5CD336432DBA8D7ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't bump anyone.
Apply a cancelation fee.

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Aug 14, 2013, at 9:21 AM, "Brian Dickson" <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> wrot= e:

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwa= lrusden.com> wrote:

Maybe we could self-select, though.  We could add a checkbox to the registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list<= br> if the hotel bumps me."  In the event there's a problem, the
secretariat could provide the list to the hotel.

I agree that this is a good idea.

Note that there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated wi= th one or more free nights.
For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they want.=
(For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm happy to let oth= ers volunteer.)

Brian
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
--_000_60958B6BA77C4A83A5CD336432DBA8D7ericssoncom_-- From phil.hunt@oracle.com Wed Aug 14 10:00:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85EA11E80AD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:00:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.925 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.673, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m4sRWqfN-hQj for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27FA21F9DE1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7EGwZkS026074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:58:38 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7EGwXr0009771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:58:34 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7EGwXC0013904; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:58:33 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.89] (/24.86.29.34) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:58:33 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4E5672A2-0595-4185-9D87-F4D44D11488C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Phil Hunt In-Reply-To: <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:58:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4F01DFCF-FAB4-41D0-B92F-13D0E1D9B91F@oracle.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> To: Jakob Heitz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Brian Dickson , Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:00:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4E5672A2-0595-4185-9D87-F4D44D11488C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When I attempted to check-in Monday morning, the Hotel informed me there = was a large gov't contingent holding the rooms and they would be = checking out late. I was unable to check in until Monday evening (6:30). A bit of a pain = having a arrived on an overnight flight. The overbooking seemed to be because of multiple conferences rather than = overbooking by IETF attendees. Note to self: next time I fly overnight, I'll book the previous night = at the conference hotel too (and apparently enjoy the walk on arrival). Phil @independentid www.independentid.com phil.hunt@oracle.com On 2013-08-14, at 9:23 AM, Jakob Heitz wrote: > Don't bump anyone. > Apply a cancelation fee. >=20 > -- > Jakob Heitz. >=20 >=20 > On Aug 14, 2013, at 9:21 AM, "Brian Dickson" = wrote: >=20 >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan = wrote: >>=20 >> Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the >> registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list >> if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the >> secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. >>=20 >> I agree that this is a good idea. >>=20 >> Note that there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated = with one or more free nights. >> For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they = want. >> (For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm happy to let = others volunteer.) >>=20 >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail=_4E5672A2-0595-4185-9D87-F4D44D11488C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii When = I attempted to check-in Monday morning, the Hotel informed me there was = a large gov't contingent holding the rooms and they would be checking = out late.

I was unable to check in until Monday = evening (6:30).  A bit of a pain having a arrived on an overnight = flight.

The overbooking seemed to be because of = multiple conferences rather than overbooking by IETF = attendees.

Note to self:  next time I fly = overnight, I'll book the previous night at the conference hotel too (and = apparently enjoy the walk on arrival).

On 2013-08-14, at 9:23 AM, Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com> = wrote:

Don't bump anyone.
Apply a cancelation fee.

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Aug 14, 2013, at 9:21 AM, "Brian Dickson" <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.co= m> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:

Maybe we could self-select, though.  We could add a checkbox to = the
registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees = list
if the hotel bumps me."  In the event there's a problem, the
secretariat could provide the list to the hotel.

I agree that this is a good idea.

Note that there is a financial side - bumping is usually associated = with one or more free nights.
For individuals paying their own way, this may be something they = want.
(For me, since the company pays, it's a wash, and I'm happy to let = others volunteer.)

Brian
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing = list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

= = --Apple-Mail=_4E5672A2-0595-4185-9D87-F4D44D11488C-- From ynir@checkpoint.com Wed Aug 14 10:06:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414C421F9A4B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PAtl8Tyr1hLa for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5061411E810B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7EH3cbv030214; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:03:38 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {520BB86A-2-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:03:38 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: Andrew Sullivan Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPcv4SwysdbAb0mIcAwzej8Y35mUkVKAgAABdICAAAF5gIAADsWAgAAZSwA= Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:03:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.33] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 111298b1c4753b63c22f4920815904b3f4c8e19933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5F65755E53C73C4A8E8FB7164D19071D@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:06:16 -0000 On Aug 14, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote= : > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 02:40:15PM +0000, Yoav Nir wrote: >>=20 >> I don't. Once you've had to fly in, it doesn't make much of a difference= whether you've flown a couple of hours (like if you come to Vancouver from= Toronto), or from the other side of the world. >>=20 >=20 > This isn't my experience. I have often flown a couple hours and then > gone directly to a meeting -- it's not much different to me than > driving a couple hours (and indeed, is often less stressful). But > trans-oceanic (or trans-continental, for that matter) flights seem to > be much worse. I agree that long flights are a hassle. The shortest ones for me are to Pra= gue at 4 hours. And jet-lag is an issue. But I don't see why it should matt= er for the question of who gets bumped. = From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Wed Aug 14 10:18:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C07A21E80C4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QehXSSsQlUYM for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x235.google.com (mail-ob0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F331411E810B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f181.google.com with SMTP id dn14so12407219obc.12 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=brkHYsaIdsSZobm3DWaAVRgUJ4U6cTwMmL2Gz05XorY=; b=VXLwRrAmGiR/lIiwVUvl8nd423ZIho4tlNMOLWxZxDlWBB6Pk8hkcOzHwgRM/FhWHZ 0Z4Q5bI9lavzXbFr/22DI0BFPFY/JAivuahA9VPni0iDW7kFy+oEyqB4Y5vvFBAQDqAk N7EVFxyOs1zXZSTLUUHR71hb6qDEPTOD6VjODUbJsrLuHifajI/PKJGh0Ecs5BMSfHif x/L5XgCPjFVAeilDPzOZuXrf5cZj0u7ZD71D0WXjMbXlkjtenOnrgpO62c+w3XGRfXYm JnnwBy1N8iUUr2nfT+YdrL8IndDn7NRAZEsecrp/Y+FwUZfkrto2gBNj80n3u1GMEQjv XT/A== X-Received: by 10.182.230.135 with SMTP id sy7mr10032049obc.24.1376500732425; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.12.60] ([50.58.7.243]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id tv3sm47079286obb.8.2013.08.14.10.18.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520BBBFD.9000304@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:18:53 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:18:53 -0000 On 8/14/2013 10:33 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Maybe we could self-select, though. We could add a checkbox to the > registration form, "I won't complain too loudly on the attendees list > if the hotel bumps me." In the event there's a problem, the > secretariat could provide the list to the hotel. I was actually asking Ray what was possible (and I had forgotten the "please tell us who to walk" moment from Orlando, so I was kind of expecting the answer to be "the hotel fills up the rooms they have in arrival order and then starts walking people"), and didn't intend my question to be a proposal (whether well thought out or not). But thanks to all for your thoughts. I take the point several people made, that having the hotel (or the secretariat) divine where we came from and how far we traveled and what condition we're likely to arrive in doesn't seem robust, and also the point that some people might be willing to be walked for reasons that don't involve (real or imaginary) travel time. If the registration form had a checkbox as Andrew described, I'd check it for Dallas, and probably for Vancouver and for Toronto as well. Even if I turned out to be the only one who checked it, I might meet different folks than I would have in the conference hotel, and if I ended up in the Nickelodeon cartoon section as people did in Orlando, I'd be even better prepared for the IETF week :-) Spencer, who is not on the IAOC ... From dhc@dcrocker.net Wed Aug 14 10:25:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4897D21E80B0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EjTj4mnWTSGK for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57BE11E8156 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7EHPPb0018860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:28 -0700 Message-ID: <520BBD78.3010305@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:12 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Spencer Dawkins References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <520BBBFD.9000304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520BBBFD.9000304@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:25:46 -0000 On 8/14/2013 10:18 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > If the registration form had a checkbox as Andrew described, I'd check > it for Dallas, and probably for Vancouver and for Toronto as well. This entire thread seems to be based on the view that we should help hotels mishandle a very large block of reservations. Reservations at a hotel are not supposed to be a 'hope' of a room, but a commitment for one, with the hotel suffering serious penalty for getting things wrong. I don't mean merely that they find some other room somewhere else, inconveniencing their now-non-guest, but cost that hurts the hotel. An error of the scale of 25 rooms indicates that the hotel did not take its responsibility seriously enough. It goes far beyond the typical statistics of "sometimes the numbers don't quite align", as inevitably happens with hotels, but isn't supposed to happen often. It represents mismanagement. That the error seems to be happening more than once suggests that our contracts are not forceful enough. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Aug 14 11:34:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F224B11E8159 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.84 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.84 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mF+4Anqr3DnR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0374921F9B5F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (nat-07-mht.dyndns.com [216.146.45.246]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 244038A031 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:34:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:34:50 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: 87attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130814183450.GS3865@mx1.yitter.info> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <520BBBFD.9000304@gmail.com> <520BBD78.3010305@dcrocker.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <520BBD78.3010305@dcrocker.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: [87attendees] Hotels and walking (was: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:34:58 -0000 On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:25:12AM -0700, Dave Crocker wrote: > but a commitment for one, with the hotel suffering serious penalty > for getting things wrong. I used to work in hotels, when I was still hoping that them Corporate Philosopher job postings were going to materialize. I can assure you that the hotel _does_ suffer a serious penalty. First, there is a significant cost in having staff running around trying to find rooms. In cases where the hotel I was in was oversold, it inevitably happened when the other hotels were also relatively full. Finding a room -- any room -- took time, and it generally had to be done by hand. This is probably better these days -- at the time, we mostly worked on the phone -- but it's still staff people chasing the problem, and ievitably you realise that you really have a problem when your forecast numbers are running below actual arrivals. Second, the hotel actually has to confirm that reservation, which means that the hotel is at least out the money if the covered reservation doesn't show. Third, depending on the hotel, the grouchiness of the guest who presents, and the terms of the reservation, the overbooked hotel is usually actually paying for the room occupied by the guest (this is the "free nights" provision). Hotels do offer one another discounted rates for this, but it's still not nothing, and if you're wrong by a lot of rooms it can easily blow away your profit for a night. Moreover, in a full hotel margins are reasonably good, but overall the hotel industry works on pretty thin margins. Those thin margins are in fact what allow us to negotiate the enormous blocks we do: the hotel wants to fill the rooms ("heads in beds") very, very badly. These absolutely are costs that negatively affect the hotel. Moreover, they're _really_ costs that affect the front office manager, whose very job depends on skating exactly on the line of ensuring both high occupancy and high room revenue while not ending up with hard or soft costs (roughly, money to another hotel or a dissatisfied guest). That's the basis on which front office managers are evaluated, and people who get this too wrong too far too often (and these are all sensitive to local market condtions) aren't front office managers for very long. > That the error seems to be happening more than once suggests that > our contracts are not forceful enough. Actually, it suggests that we're paying room rates in the lower end of the scale. Hotels are _always_ going to walk the people that represent the lowest likely overall room revenue, just like any other economic agent. Presumably, as the hotel fills, we're paying well below what the room will attract in revenue (either that day or, as likely, over the long haul). You could reduce your chances of being walked by registering at the hotel outside the IETF block, paying regular rates that are higher than our block rate. A PS: In some places (particularly in urban parts of North America), you can often increase your odds of getting a room (or an upgrade) by tipping the front desk clerk, being sure to accept help from the bellhop and tipping him/her, &c. I know someone will be outraged by this fact. It doesn't make it less factlike. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From johnl@taugh.com Thu Aug 15 06:25:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A7721F9263 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:25:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QrZ431K3ayIC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0170821E804B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27180 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2013 13:25:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=6a2b.520cd6b0.k1308; bh=lXh6cK+YXvo8MgO8jJV1f2rShLUCgD7RD1t/2UlW5Kw=; b=t1BjqAT6EWYjLuSKQiNaKuBFnbcWclNG2xJD+jXS5Xq/MqvFIjUB0UYCDkB4Pg/tK1NFlJLrG3QAnR6lcIpcz6B/MmmcU/Za4zfFVWCu6vASHai3hymR5FxIkDGVLmElYCvaxuL60VS28RaKuJ9o/KcWMAw06s19yIMocQtLJomudL/C4BXbUS9hJzkh6x87fvzKma2tPv/Ra7t2imS3jJh32jwIfiE2dIlGhM2cPjrxL+L05wLvdINykOCD0MiX DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=6a2b.520cd6b0.k1308; bh=lXh6cK+YXvo8MgO8jJV1f2rShLUCgD7RD1t/2UlW5Kw=; b=fhM5SjwLu+jnsXVxqDTtRDgDoyCCfRqWszGIiy4pvKxV/TshA5n8KmdK/nUfvgg3rmUCYAACtjPuQ2oe1jpqNx24+xqbLaE07U3DbjV3OiRTqds0H88iKmjiT6GvhhuraqfCnrU1L7th2Nxvhxmpdxk4imQWRxcXYtCK/1wDSDosnCSKEr/Oq9c69fqV7k1B7gOR0Twayvvh7gNj18GuB22wzCXbtAXqaQtV7e1Z9Yi38YrGqQW6aBYvyCvC80Ss Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 15 Aug 2013 13:24:42 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2013 09:25:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Ole Jacobsen" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:25:17 -0000 > Same here, sort of. I came by train from Leipzig which is about an > hour from Berlin. The A/C in our car failed so I am sure I was just > as grumpy and tired as some of the ones who had travelled much further > that day ;=) I came from Groningen in NL, which due to trackwork involved a regional train, a bustitution through rural eastern NL, a local train, an IC that was supposed to go through to Berlin but terminated in Hannover due to flood damage, and an overcrowded ICE (due to all the people dumped off the IC) where I only got a seat because I am a nerd, looked at the platform train map, and knew exactly where to stand so I would be at the correct door when the train stopped. So, yes, it was nice to get a room at my hotel and take a shower. The draft beer on the ICE helped, too. By the way, the wifi on Dutch regional trains is amazing. It is free, it works well, and it knows what train you're on so the startup page shows your upcoming stations with delay info updated in real time. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly PS: I also agree that it is not in our interest to help hotels walk people. It's their mistake, it's up to them to deal with it, they can see where people are from and estimate how far they've come. From johnl@taugh.com Thu Aug 15 06:28:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC55D21E8144 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSTwHD-4eB7G for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098A721E811F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2013 13:28:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=6ce9.520cd77d.k1308; bh=+Ru1aS0tkb1UiyQi9HB/28wizYaFm1cOH6ZJRcKUn5I=; b=BbGeKt/aXedmPBVfpMx1AIFnSmKCLlqJkTLrJGeYdiiaQ53NjGip9ESjs5VHizZf20ykUAmgVP+ERsRycqHfc1LdurBNY2dg3c6kF/8Xl4DndWFJO7zCfXrevFHsom2IF47Ym7eU6jj5SIcuiNVlzwExcqrx+S67pd5Fx6mP35MC3VnjVLZimxCsjTY3MuoQz8/M+mpyOSmb52t6oYN6Vs30OMLaI/KaaOJaDjPJ4Y3jJMr2wguyp+vHvzj60L5u DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=6ce9.520cd77d.k1308; bh=+Ru1aS0tkb1UiyQi9HB/28wizYaFm1cOH6ZJRcKUn5I=; b=WvzooSQfYd18GiYs9wv2LkobpznfHTJX61UkAWFZWKdeg00kR3sJVvXgKhHCLxRHrUqAfE/3gfppo7noz4hsgNrK7hwA0sYrvpY7vkaWFAvAAx3Afm1TgSj6cG9PmQGwc4SgFlnCyiRPz24BCUokUHwNhh04+Foeca2bCeDRC3muaH++jNYPZnCByAAoI3717m/toEdkKvMMcPEEPnWS0JK5jOuVWvM1XCDkLmDJS6UvBjH37TMEFa1JEMM32hPA Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 15 Aug 2013 13:28:07 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2013 09:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:28:30 -0000 > Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room out of it. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From randy@psg.com Thu Aug 15 06:31:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C38021E813B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:31:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.454 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.454 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E0WTQ2m3TcOU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E36121E813C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V9xe0-0001hc-4l; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:31:16 +0000 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:31:15 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: John R Levine In-Reply-To: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:31:23 -0000 >> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. > Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to > bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into > a room out of it. but we need someone to BLAME!!!! randy From swmike@swm.pp.se Thu Aug 15 07:57:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5AED21F9F84 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 07:57:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BISh6tllaAoP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 07:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2181311E815B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 07:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id A277DA1; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1F29A; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:57:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: John R Levine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:57:38 -0000 On Thu, 15 Aug 2013, John R Levine wrote: > Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to > bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a > room out of it. Airlines usually offer people cash or other incentive to take a later flight. So whilst there is no way to *force* someone out of a room, nothing says the hotel can't buy them out of it. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Thu Aug 15 08:13:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE36F21E805F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:13:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lMGOMRDH5-Jc for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542D921E80AD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fda8e0000024c6-ea-520cf01bc0bc Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 13.7B.09414.B10FC025; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:13:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:13:31 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPrW+K1iwWPULUiYWIOBXJmYAZmVCBiAgAABYYCAAA7dgIAADUWA//+9imqAAaSbgP//2ks5 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:13:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuK7MB54gg1Zdi4dNO9ksTvesYXJg 8liy5CeTx70toQFMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZP45NYS6YxFaxa/NUxgbG/yxdjJwcEgImEo3H drNB2GISF+6tB7OFBI4ySrQ2+3YxcgHZyxklvjy5AdbAJqAj8e16F3MXIweHiICyxNm14SAm s4ChxPoOd5AKYQEHib9fNzGC2CICjhL/mxYzQdhREhO+bASzWQRUJU607ABbxStgL9E3cQ8b xKqjzBIXG5ewg8zkFLCRmLxBCqSGEei076fWgPUyC4hL3HoynwniZAGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9j hajRkViw+xMbhK0tsWzha2aIXYISJ2c+YZnAKDoLyahZSFpmIWmZhaRlASPLKkaO0uLUstx0 I4NNjMAoOCbBpruDcc9Ly0OM0hwsSuK8q/TOBAoJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpg NOLMPFy4/aKoY8KaXPsHZccnXO8wUIhjSPORdbPaKu576OXmnQHXzn6S65Q/fSR9Q47bl+j3 TyQn31t59pSl4RvGJ2HvIn+WcZvPU1V+8khiwfEfBU+3neE4t9r88Abf3OoFhqfWygb7pn2N jdy+IL9C52P4bY1d/df+s+ieq8qbFnF/R1/DTyWW4oxEQy3mouJEAKN8ePJQAgAA Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:13:45 -0000 Don't book more people than rooms. If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cancell= ation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. >=20 > Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bum= p someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room o= ut of it. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Thu Aug 15 08:18:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F3011E8164 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:18:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sM6lb6J+-TUs for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:44:76:96:59:211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FC921F9A74 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.76]) by QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id D0ML1m0081ei1Bg5B3JfMq; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:18:39 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.164]) by omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id D3Je1m01A3ZTu2S3k3JeMr; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:18:39 +0000 Message-ID: <520CF14D.2060006@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:18:37 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com>, <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1376579919; bh=MdM32/Odz7koi5Vqb2xIYZABttOiqnpo8JDMvQaJaMA=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=rsnDQUFwsK1behzFi1AeS9n/cKhS6UG2SdEqs7Dg5h947LfdToOUIGikkCm4l9pXH a4Z2FvrEUQUMuELQUkx2RO+V5TD/+O0a93/L89RQ3hC0h5Z4uXSR7AlCF+XdDLa929 7jimObqRu41WnCrgYPM2DhoosXs0YHmn2yzh5fJlL8OuP/lCemV58z9DqBiJ9ledKf obMuJWUdjIJvW2dvoaGMhV61SLgrgvQTFdEMCLMMwH3fqF4Ae4f42UTnb0jEUOlujO DL2bdtQncjeQiqS7jhZ3JODlEBkEIb8W6Vpf/0WimV++BmBers1T6P/nj4ed087zEf NBVtiLFlHJbsw== Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:18:45 -0000 I don't think we should imagine that we can have a major influence on the booking policies of hotel chains. I'm sure they think long and hard about this, and the tradeoffs that overbooking entails. (Just as airlines clearly do.) Do major hotel chains differ in a significant way about how they handle this? If so, maybe we could insist on being told what the policy is, and then use that as a factor in which hotels we choose. Thanks, Paul On 8/15/13 11:13 AM, Jakob Heitz wrote: > Don't book more people than rooms. > If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cancellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. > > -- > Jakob Heitz. > > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: > >>> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. >> >> Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room out of it. >> >> Regards, >> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY >> "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Thu Aug 15 08:22:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F66321E8167 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5CH+LhDeXHqh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x231.google.com (mail-ve0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE0B21E8160 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f177.google.com with SMTP id cz11so645664veb.22 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=BYxEXx4ZqQgY3/F1v3vI4C8JdFp8ZR2UEUi06huQl1M=; b=hFPjRwveoXSHuGOcMRUB4r326Pw+N2OMbWcJdOaPXya4tPULKcHdxn85MRioYur8Yj CMkwQuGUywGilAZzK9jo0ntHfHY2vpiNDYjWbaoSJ8AhNjMNz9UVssGpJPMXOKlaiR6y 17MtBeh1J/lCNQUXb0m4dud4aSeAVz6SyOINiLUbIO+xKnRO5QPbDX/QIssV0WxVgx6u cE4xz1FPW4HvA2pzgUptL3AIBC21WtcnUJ4UoiiMoieyPkCor4Yrkx7ak6XHMLgJq49U N0r5pARa9yztNmMJAt6yLx8pkZBYvsxCcLfNkkrXZ9pnbOcCvoUSSdoc2krzlmdVttcA txUA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.69.71 with SMTP id y7mr494865vci.40.1376580122121; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:22:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Jakob Heitz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a84522f789304e3fe0908 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:22:15 -0000 --047d7b3a84522f789304e3fe0908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Jakob Heitz wrote: > Don't book more people than rooms. > [MB] The hotels book based on anticipated a specific number/percentage of no shows - that's standard business practice and is not unlike what the airlines do. Andrew Sullivan provided all the detail as to how it works based on his own firsthand experiences. I do wonder if the numbers vary for conferences as to the average public. I would think the IETF no show rate, for example, might be lower than the average no show rate. My guess also is that they had more people from the other conference extend their stays. As someone else noted, they aren't going to kick someone out of a room - that's guaranteed revenue. There's always a chance there will be no shows - flight delays, illness, etc. [/MB] If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a > cancellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. > [MB] They already do that - you can find any reservation has a cancel by date/time. If you don't cancel by then, they will charge you the first nights rate. [/MB] > > -- > Jakob Heitz. > > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: > > >> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. > > > > Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to > bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a > room out of it. > > > > Regards, > > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > > _______________________________________________ > > 87attendees mailing list > > 87attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b3a84522f789304e3fe0908 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:= 13 AM, Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>
Don't book more people than rooms.
[MB] The hotels book based on anticipated a specific number= /percentage of no shows - that's standard business practice and is not = unlike what the airlines do. Andrew Sullivan provided all the detail as to = how it works based on his own firsthand experiences. =A0 I do wonder if the= numbers vary for conferences as to the average public. =A0I would think th= e IETF no show rate, for example, might be lower than the average no show r= ate. =A0 My guess also is that they had more people from the other conferen= ce extend their stays. =A0As someone else noted, they aren't going to k= ick someone out of a room - that's guaranteed revenue. There's alwa= ys a chance there will be no shows - flight delays, illness, etc. =A0 =A0[/= MB]

If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a can= cellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms.
[MB] They already do that - you can find any reservation has a cancel by = date/time. If you don't cancel by then, they will charge you the first = nights rate. [/MB]=A0

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>> Don't bump anyone. =A0Apply a cancelation fee.
>
> Not an option. =A0If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have t= o bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked = into a room out of it.
>
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, T= aughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
> "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--047d7b3a84522f789304e3fe0908-- From phil.hunt@oracle.com Thu Aug 15 08:26:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AE811E815E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:26:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.213, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S1lSoY3kQQpu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3FE21E815C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7FFQKoG032517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:26:21 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7FFQJfM002191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:26:20 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7FFQJXV007541; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:26:19 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.125] (/24.86.29.34) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:26:18 -0700 References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <520CF14D.2060006@alum.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <520CF14D.2060006@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <32ED7C56-65FE-4AB0-BFC8-FEAB9789E71D@oracle.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Phil Hunt Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:26:03 -0700 To: Paul Kyzivat X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:26:52 -0000 I wonder if we are adding to the problem. So many IETFers book as soon as th= e meeting is announced but then change their reservation to adjust to actual= travel.=20 Is this leading hotels to think they have more rooms than they think? Partic= ularly on mondays? Phil On 2013-08-15, at 8:18, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > I don't think we should imagine that we can have a major influence on the b= ooking policies of hotel chains. I'm sure they think long and hard about thi= s, and the tradeoffs that overbooking entails. (Just as airlines clearly do.= ) >=20 > Do major hotel chains differ in a significant way about how they handle th= is? If so, maybe we could insist on being told what the policy is, and then u= se that as a factor in which hotels we choose. >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > On 8/15/13 11:13 AM, Jakob Heitz wrote: >> Don't book more people than rooms. >> If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cance= llation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. >>=20 >> -- >> Jakob Heitz. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: >>=20 >>>> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. >>>=20 >>> Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bu= mp someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room o= ut of it. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY >>> "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 87attendees mailing list >>> 87attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Thu Aug 15 08:27:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731C311E8194 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJZ0CbX3pmQR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C0711E816F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fda8e0000024c6-7b-520cf3483d81 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 82.1D.09414.843FC025; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:27:04 -0400 From: Jakob Heitz To: Mary Barnes Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPrW+K1iwWPULUiYWIOBXJmYAZmVCBiAgAABYYCAAA7dgIAADUWA//+9imqAAaSbgP//2ks5gABFbwD//75ajQ== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:27:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBCFA9927DF74C2AB91823DB8A9D8B95ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoK7nZ54gg2ON3BYPm3ayWZzuWcNk sffWb2YHZo+ds+6yeyxZ8pPJ496W0ADmKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6MFRMOsxasMqxo/bqArYHx pWYXIweHhICJxI6dTF2MnECmmMSFe+vZuhi5OIQEjjJKTH+0C8pZzigxcdlrNpAqNgEdiW/X u5hBbBEBTYn+u+vBbGaBEImdz06A1QgLOEj8/bqJEaLGUeJ/02ImCDtL4u3lCywgNouAqsTs VRvAenkF7CXuHj7GCLHsAIvEq93rwQZxCgRKTG7pA2tgBDrv+6k1TBDLxCVuPZkPdbaAxJI9 55khbFGJl4//sULUJEuc37yOHWKBoMTJmU9YJjCKzELSPgtJ2SwkZRBxHYkFuz+xQdjaEssW vmaGsc8ceMyELL6AkX0VI0dpcWpZbrqRwSZGYEQdk2DT3cG456XlIUZpDhYlcd5VemcChQTS E0tSs1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBKNTDWXzXvNajt+Cdywitt78+NUm19+nsmS3GZufxc/VWh i0OM11o0+/upxXbeQpevXWSWv7z8B4d78WHm0+Kbi447dayOc3RRy35+sGZ68aWYn2clJXmm srj6md++lLDFLWahhcEpp08XmpW2v3/6YHeRb2ec3NbrBy08Vpzbsltsd6xvRt2mbF8lluKM REMt5qLiRAB65ze9dgIAAA== Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:27:13 -0000 --_000_BBCFA9927DF74C2AB91823DB8A9D8B95ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I hate that policy. I've never been "walked", but I would hate to be. -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 15, 2013, at 8:22 AM, "Mary Barnes" > wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Jakob Heitz > wrote: Don't book more people than rooms. [MB] The hotels book based on anticipated a specific number/percentage of n= o shows - that's standard business practice and is not unlike what the airl= ines do. Andrew Sullivan provided all the detail as to how it works based o= n his own firsthand experiences. I do wonder if the numbers vary for conf= erences as to the average public. I would think the IETF no show rate, for= example, might be lower than the average no show rate. My guess also is = that they had more people from the other conference extend their stays. As= someone else noted, they aren't going to kick someone out of a room - that= 's guaranteed revenue. There's always a chance there will be no shows - fli= ght delays, illness, etc. [/MB] If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cancell= ation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. [MB] They already do that - you can find any reservation has a cancel by da= te/time. If you don't cancel by then, they will charge you the first nights= rate. [/MB] -- Jakob Heitz. On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" > wrote: >> Don't bump anyone. Apply a cancelation fee. > > Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bum= p someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room o= ut of it. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Network= s, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --_000_BBCFA9927DF74C2AB91823DB8A9D8B95ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I hate that policy.
I've never been "walked", but I would hate to be.

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Aug 15, 2013, at 8:22 AM, "Mary Barnes" <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Jakob Heitz <jakob.hei= tz@ericsson.com> wrote:
Don't book more people than rooms.
[MB] The hotels book based on anticipated a specific number/percentage= of no shows - that's standard business practice and is not unlike what the= airlines do. Andrew Sullivan provided all the detail as to how it works ba= sed on his own firsthand experiences.   I do wonder if the numbers vary for conferences as to the average p= ublic.  I would think the IETF no show rate, for example, might be low= er than the average no show rate.   My guess also is that they had mor= e people from the other conference extend their stays.  As someone else noted, they aren't going to kick someone out = of a room - that's guaranteed revenue. There's always a chance there will b= e no shows - flight delays, illness, etc.    [/MB]

If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cancell= ation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms.
[MB] They already do that - you can find any reservation has a cancel = by date/time. If you don't cancel by then, they will charge you the first n= ights rate. [/MB] 

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:28 AM, "John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

>> Don't bump anyone.  Apply a cancelation fee.
>
> Not an option.  If the hotel has more people than rooms, they hav= e to bump someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into = a room out of it.
>
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, T= aughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
> "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.
> _______________________________________________
> 87attendees mailing list
> 87attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--_000_BBCFA9927DF74C2AB91823DB8A9D8B95ericssoncom_-- From johnl@taugh.com Thu Aug 15 08:37:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F4011E81A9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UzeoP109Mkyd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26CB11E8175 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51065 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2013 15:36:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=c778.520cf59a.k1308; bh=ZIXcn8PoUo9uoQEXnhGPhrZFoT72AqS13ZYxeg48DUo=; b=tA5GaiPkRPC6T3wmoMzOFOvZZpxy7B877RYSkwfICFg5hMTLuevsylSmyIVv/WKIvWEX6Q+17bMHf5eZKRdVHUd6zvsnD9mj0G5/cWxNXR8sGdHWHz2q6adgsPEH7at3CsmxMxBWmJwuGo+lJseg0nisbGt136CWGk5euGg7JPMrI6Byf5eST1VRzlq0aYLMDDoiLDQ4fUWPeOGOke0dEB0208d70OlNZ3laG1MeoAdgwt7RLhRmNfQEkiICE7D+ DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=c778.520cf59a.k1308; bh=ZIXcn8PoUo9uoQEXnhGPhrZFoT72AqS13ZYxeg48DUo=; b=IfHn+KTgb4wmNQ61NrcZT5Qffr3xNZROJ1QuD5c5G+qAqgjHxkc/60cBcEb3UuzTfpWHBR7QbFV8ufhKOwgk+sI7ZgNVrJID+Kw05+7obrUk9+SDd124Eh0VAEPObufp/rExM5ckdswyKUPf9Uh/lrVgUF3phUZqWDff0JCkmBfBzB631v5oWVwfNxWH78eKr2zgqq3JrK+Ufzr0bu1GfowsZ7/mQ8OnYFqYGgxX+MO7kcDYA9UH5SkgbzW5GAHB Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 15 Aug 2013 15:36:36 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2013 11:36:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Mikael Abrahamsson" In-Reply-To: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:37:01 -0000 >> Not an option. If the hotel has more people than rooms, they have to bump >> someone, and there's no way to force a person who's checked into a room out >> of it. > > Airlines usually offer people cash or other incentive to take a later flight. > So whilst there is no way to *force* someone out of a room, nothing says the > hotel can't buy them out of it. I have never, ever, heard of a hotel doing that, and I read a fair amount of travel industry stuff. Hotels hate walking people. As others have noted, it's disruptive, it's expensive (they invariably provide a free night), and the customers dislike it. They don't need a lot of extra incentive to prevent it. It would be somewhat interesting to find out what happened at the IC, but I expect the answer will be three things went wrong at once in a way that is unlikely ever to happen again. R's, John From dhc@dcrocker.net Thu Aug 15 08:39:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC8C11E81B7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:39:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0x+ubCFduffu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22E311E8175 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7FFcwIw009504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <520CF603.7070303@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:38:43 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <520BBBFD.9000304@gmail.com> <520BBD78.3010305@dcrocker.net> <20130814183450.GS3865@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130814183450.GS3865@mx1.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] Hotels and walking X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:39:13 -0000 On 8/14/2013 11:34 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:25:12AM -0700, Dave Crocker wrote: >> but a commitment for one, with the hotel suffering serious penalty >> for getting things wrong. > > I used to work in hotels, when I was still hoping that them Corporate > Philosopher job postings were going to materialize. I can assure you > that the hotel _does_ suffer a serious penalty. > > First, there is a significant cost in having staff running around > trying to find rooms. To clarify: 1) The hotel should offset the inconvenience suffered by the guests. This goes beyond paying for the room at the alternative hotel. 2) There is a difference between hassling existing staff, versus hitting the bottom line. Hassling the line staff is quite painful for them, but affects the folks who screwed up -- management -- little. So when I refer to 'serious penalty', I don't mean making the life of line staff more painful. (I'm not undervaluing your list, which I do appreciate as real and painful; it's simply not the 'venue' for the pain that I'm calling for.) Paying for the guest's night at the alternative hotel shows up on the bottom line, of course, especially when it's on the scale of 25 rooms. But, again, it has no compensatory value to the displaced and inconvenienced guest. The cost that should be incurred should be to counteract the considerable inconvenience to the guest(s). This is made a bit more interesting by the fact that business guests typically aren't paying for their room; so comp'ing them the cost of the room doesn't make /the guest/ better, it makes their company better. > Moreover, they're _really_ costs that affect the front office manager, > whose very job depends on skating exactly on the line of ensuring both > high occupancy and high room revenue while not ending up with hard or > soft costs (roughly, money to another hotel or a dissatisfied guest). Fair point. What's missing is counteracting the inconvenience to the customer. >> That the error seems to be happening more than once suggests that >> our contracts are not forceful enough. > > Actually, it suggests that we're paying room rates in the lower end of > the scale. Hotels are _always_ going to walk the people that > represent the lowest likely overall room revenue, just like any other > economic agent. As I said, it sounds as if our contract doesn't establish incentives well enough. In this case that means making sure the hotel doesn't evaluate failure to honor the reservation in the way you describe. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From dhc@dcrocker.net Thu Aug 15 08:40:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB51121F9D4F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TYQQRsyJ7acE for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3B711E8153 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7FFeJNQ009598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <520CF654.7080703@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:04 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John R Levine References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:40:27 -0000 On 8/15/2013 6:25 AM, John R Levine wrote: > By the way, the wifi on Dutch regional trains is amazing. It is free, > it works well, and it knows what train you're on so the startup page > shows your upcoming stations with delay info updated in real time. the east coast train between london and newcastle did that, as well. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From johnl@taugh.com Thu Aug 15 08:41:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798DB11E81D5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:41:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hrTQ0kP5bNzu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA73911E8175 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51985 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2013 15:41:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=cb10.520cf68f.k1308; bh=5/QV9x/u+oD+q1LQk3ueE9/YJ3q3ZzrfX7Dj27ydeNs=; b=LODIwzmyikjLjQW8lszHHXNq1csbElB1NFbOVdUoDo8u6nzht6fJ6I6WrEyJigxyem9VJxrhr4EGnFaVwNfxWrA1+j9fX1vX3STf6M8+vTaLIbYpM4sVFb3YfmDHErvjKWtJztmGG9fOd1taQPJiQykx9z/oI9DQiBWn+LcU8tsvLEmcgeMkKqbcT/o4FOPo7DYzlpTpWYmFjkHkA3y1KHNrnYT16D6vwS4k29LApxx6T9tBCDXZvEIWwJKOcNlG DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=cb10.520cf68f.k1308; bh=5/QV9x/u+oD+q1LQk3ueE9/YJ3q3ZzrfX7Dj27ydeNs=; b=DEqgFlR0OOJb5e07Ogbfzpyd+2e3CfGdwLlTv3oK9P1VXcV9KTy2n3C3Ol1B5drTPFMAp6qjjWzbYTRdhJhkNRvZMHrg2agWzLWTItdwjIdImFosl7DIhChMlJuffERyVkzy0KZfuJviDGhXmj5OJjXXyqRdn9FYGx1UzmXgEH2vixlOWFTXBRvyDstXst12kGIawVRxFWKji1U8uoBPHMIIbRefymTSMY7i0zOOTswUhTZVULBtWjnSs62jdw/0 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 15 Aug 2013 15:40:41 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2013 11:41:02 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Jakob Heitz" In-Reply-To: <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com>, <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:41:04 -0000 > Don't book more people than rooms. > If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a cancellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. Um, you are not the first person ever to think about this issue. They usually do charge a cancellation fee unless you pay the highest rack rate. Hotels are unlike airplanes in that they do not know in advance how long people will stay, and in many places they're not allowed to kick out a client who overstays, and I get the impression that overstays were the problem this time. I've been walked, it's not a big deal. You typically get a better room at a hotel within walking distance, for free, and the hotel staff will move your luggage back for you when you get unwalked if you ask them to. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From fred@cisco.com Thu Aug 15 10:40:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7551211E817B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:40:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SPN5+-OuOZZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD9011E81E9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:40:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=893; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376588432; x=1377798032; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=OqETK+d+629C26W3JfcqZgiqoFWVyDKOdfAVE9jWNQQ=; b=X1+v0DTOox3Afo8qWJIEDDQkJNjY4p3MjJ1p1yPP+xdGsQFMDxKpseJ6 azyQruM3LiiUTBsg/sXbeZdfqkx3+uFJPbFUGd8ZPWsthyR4b2yFOBsff luighocshC5p9NSaKQgr+3hgjjRhVFWDrVPuvWgoS2oTibqF2Qhqo19c6 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqAHAEcSDVKtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABbgwaBBYJSvECBIRZtB4IkAQEBAwE6RAsCAQgiFBAyJQIEEwiIAga6CY8CgRsCOIMbdwOpNoMbgio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,886,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="247791980" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2013 17:40:31 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7FHeVrM031670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:40:31 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.136]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:40:31 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmPcucdYnfmr3U0auOvm0KmKG4pmVF2+AgAABdICAAAFggIAADt6AgAANRYCAAACXAIABYY6AgAAdWYCAAAewAIAAIV4A Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:40:30 +0000 Message-ID: <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com>, <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.64.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:40:37 -0000 On Aug 15, 2013, at 8:41 AM, John R Levine wrote: > I've been walked, it's not a big deal. You typically get a better room a= t a hotel within walking distance, for free, and the hotel staff will move = your luggage back for you when you get unwalked if you ask them to. And I. Similar experience. It would have been tough in City West in Dublin,= because the alternate hotels were a distance away, but in most cases the a= lternate hotels that are also the obvious "walk-to" hotels and are near at = hand. If there is anything to draw out of all this, I would think it is thi= nking seriously about Dave's comment re contracts, and the IAOC making sure= that such backups in fact exist and are reasonable when it books a hotel. And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch my hea= d about discussions on the attendee lists...= From d3e3e3@gmail.com Thu Aug 15 10:53:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A7911E821D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uf4VO99FXpTg for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x229.google.com (mail-ob0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829C011E81E2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f169.google.com with SMTP id wc20so1193578obb.0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=w40BxNB4AXQGi0Kv4kAhS11HNR0uKOxE69kCVbe+4Xw=; b=NEMQDBR6/xUzFSFoi22TKZNODobt0KFUwnUv4v4YfLjNyBZ538BptIs5CFDmx9y0AX VPRjIYd3quxWwqfyxH5U0dkX+FDtaaQe27pB3+zB/oVIwq6jN6szuhPEnt3Fl/gkCqeU 8FFS8secMmP/R+kzQnZXOOIips780BQ2O3kZ0R0NvJpmWknYhZHIlqcHyQoTo+RGtD7x Z5YwwLlVn9dkdGxfTYSHMwrnsYuCxmD5mIO4lm+73pppunt1na+PF+bQudu1+97ZSKYq BikCqlYqvpzac0EYkdAKRUGis1ytp8B7b9lfIU0HXD02KBmSmqbRox/kypWJuo+dSCyY Hwxw== X-Received: by 10.182.22.5 with SMTP id z5mr20121918obe.42.1376589204311; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.76.131.7 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:53:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: John R Levine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Jakob Heitz , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:53:32 -0000 On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, John R Levine wrote: >> Don't book more people than rooms. >> If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a >> cancellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. > > Um, you are not the first person ever to think about this issue. They > usually do charge a cancellation fee unless you pay the highest rack rate. > Hotels are unlike airplanes in that they do not know in advance how long > people will stay, and in many places they're not allowed to kick out a > client who overstays, and I get the impression that overstays were the > problem this time. In most common law countries/states, someone staying in a hotel room is a tenant in possession and eviction proceedings can be difficult and lengthy. But there are cases where the hotel industry has enough clout to change the law. See, for example, Hawai'i Revised Statuses Section 486K-8. http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/2/26/486K/486K-8 It's an extraordinarily simple single sentence, but I guess you have to read it in the context of the more lengthy definitions in http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/2/26/486K/486K-1 Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > I've been walked, it's not a big deal. You typically get a better room at a > hotel within walking distance, for free, and the hotel staff will move your > luggage back for you when you get unwalked if you ask them to. > > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From moore@network-heretics.com Thu Aug 15 11:04:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B3111E811F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:04:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7CFE6AjGCu01 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCC811E80AD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.43]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9AE20BC0; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:04:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:message-id:cc:from :subject:date:to; s=smtpout; bh=S+eQFWgIoEfzgNV03+SLzWqIOzs=; b= ga+gPQdIv3kK4+gPi9DIFQ07/sV8uA50FUjZNslwGZGkOWjxHsGaTJB6GxQwSHBK 5jr0LgF5Z7C04BvuCK1pObzLitgoY2im0ZdkSmjm1qFEThjFN5GTrr0w1DRhQ8Ed o7NJ3k+f/1xUuJGqHLkTwqIPpoalf7ERL8Q4/JM3EDI= X-Sasl-enc: KIcjE/7fMR80V7l6D9IlX7P3kOipkttV0MQoH8Ht5S2/ 1376589866 Received: from [21.148.193.223] (unknown [66.87.153.223]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ED41BC00E84; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:04:26 -0400 (EDT) References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Keith Moore Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:04:24 -0400 To: "Fred Baker (fred)" Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:04:34 -0000 On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" wrote: > And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch my he= ad about discussions on the attendee lists... +1 From ole@cisco.com Thu Aug 15 11:13:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2C511E8221 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OLKnsezjDiQZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE41911E8204 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:13:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1211; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376590413; x=1377800013; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=P7FLdApl0FiNdym9LgjJW94KnswTQyAg8b2Y/R3CFEw=; b=l2Lcu+5OKJ4WgRZCdsKoLe7JU3Vms93RRrAV3k3XR/UOgNkH/5KclED1 57x45+rGRtr3Xv9Q+Tcm0ouUjcIl0vqW2tL95olPKgkFj633QQVeeawUK VSJTvYFvYCPYGp9NqSteo9DbEt/eSbEqsHflK7ZLEzgEJnhFTBuk6i8GU E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlQFAPYZDVKQ/khN/2dsb2JhbABYA4MGNatsk3eBIRZ0giQBAQEEOj8QCw4KLiE2BhOHfgMPDLElDYhejVWCaxAHEYQBA4ktjE6DFoR8hgKFJ4M7HA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,886,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="17174070" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2013 18:13:25 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7FIDKJ1026821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:13:22 GMT Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:13:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Donald Eastlake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Jakob Heitz , "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, John R Levine Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:13:55 -0000 On Thu, 15 Aug 2013, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > In most common law countries/states, someone staying in a hotel room > is a tenant in possession and eviction proceedings can be difficult > and lengthy. But there are cases where the hotel industry has enough > clout to change the law. See, for example, Hawai'i Revised Statuses > Section 486K-8. > > http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/2/26/486K/486K-8 > It's an extraordinarily simple single sentence, but I guess you have > to read it in the context of the more lengthy definitions in > http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/2/26/486K/486K-1 > > Thanks, > Donald > ============================= > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > There is also the "innkeeper" law in many places which allows the guest to stay provided he pays. This comes in handy if you are stranded in a place because of weather or other factors. Of course "pays" can mean a number of different things, and the hotel is not required to honor any special rate etc. I got stuck in Atlanta for about 5 days following 9/11/2001 and excercised my right to stay put. Ole From charliep@computer.org Thu Aug 15 12:27:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB7B11E80AD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCG4mzKU14Jx for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDD111E8196 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [107.1.141.74] (helo=[192.168.252.70]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VA3CR-0002vS-1k; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:27:11 -0400 Message-ID: <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:26:56 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Moore References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad869d4e04e3674be7d1904e6fea6a2e5bcb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 107.1.141.74 Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, "Fred Baker \(fred\)" Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:27:19 -0000 On 8/15/2013 11:04 AM, Keith Moore wrote: > On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" wrote: > >> And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch my head about discussions on the attendee lists... > +1 > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > +1 -- but I wish the other hotels had great WiFi like the IETF hotel... -- Regards, Charlie P. From rgm@labs.htt-consult.com Thu Aug 15 13:09:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6F221F9AC4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cOeehCBZkHT6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [IPv6:2607:f4b8:3:0:218:71ff:fe83:66b9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F85F21F99CD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89FA62AA9; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:09:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IYcnCxTjAXLr; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e2.htt-consult.com (lx120e2.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.155]) (Authenticated sender: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5D06562A68; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <520D3568.7090602@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:09:12 -0400 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Charles E. Perkins" References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> In-Reply-To: <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org, Keith Moore , "Fred Baker \(fred\)" Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:09:33 -0000 On 08/15/2013 03:26 PM, Charles E. Perkins wrote: > On 8/15/2013 11:04 AM, Keith Moore wrote: >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" wrote: >> >>> And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch >>> my head about discussions on the attendee lists... >> +1 >> >> > > +1 -- but I wish the other hotels had great WiFi like the IETF hotel... > I paid 19EU/day the prior week in Bonn for ETSI/NFV. Though the week before that for IEEE 802 in Geneva it was free (better have been for the price of that hotel...). Yes, IETF networks are great and in the past when I had to fight Corporate travel/AP on staying at the venue hotel, I used that as part of the price justification. From carlos@lacnic.net Thu Aug 15 13:28:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E174421F9CF7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:28:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 72tUklxx0nN9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8397D21F9C00 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:7000:f148:dde1:869a:9cd4]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227F73084E0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:27:45 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:28:10 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> In-Reply-To: <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:28:23 -0000 My hotel was relatively cheap, good (even had A/C) and was less than three blocks away from the IC. Only drawback: Internet was 12 euros per day, and was sloooow. What I ended up doing was buying a local SIM card with unlimited data for 30 days (it was 29 euros), and I used my Android phone as access point. Performance was better than the hotel wi-fi. Much better. And I could also use data outdoors. There were two caveats though: This 30-day offer was very convenient but all setup instructions and the call center help were available only in German. I got the kind help of a German friend of mine for getting it running. And this offer was available online, I'm not sure if it was possible to buy it from stores. So, how could the IETF help? Maybe by pre-arranging a SIM card sales booth at the event's registration. I'm not saying that the IETF needs to pay for anything, I'm only saying that it could act as facilitator, easing the process for all attendees who wish to buy a SIM card. cheers! ~Carlos On 8/15/13 4:26 PM, Charles E. Perkins wrote: > On 8/15/2013 11:04 AM, Keith Moore wrote: >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" wrote: >> >>> And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch >>> my head about discussions on the attendee lists... >> +1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >> > > +1 -- but I wish the other hotels had great WiFi like the IETF hotel... > From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Thu Aug 15 13:54:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8D111E81B7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zLYRdqEZSC8c for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x234.google.com (mail-vc0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9531B11E820D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id gf11so849001vcb.25 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ct4m0bI+lwn8E8akd2/PpZ0Fwnvq31yGHlBYLIXyY1U=; b=XpBqtIM2qE/htH9HLShL2kvTPcOfPYYABXVQv0bu8D2ACP9wimPluyJ5qVkCWklux9 QIAJYJUARfaOpY71C5D/k7O5+A0jtFaKjjIawqr+9zKi3awm4BOlsdXfdhNjMaRcTa9X VU6BZ7yd7Q8+JRPMTKap8y23DY7dCro5wtIh5DvKVz5IKKjUOSLNaglWOf762U2o1172 4AycovL1IiMEhs8cra6lGx6k278cjeuxZhFWRQxWocAU7xz8cgFKKEE5n5R+UP+xUDuo B9JrrMmvoHxBlevKXuIkTKyB7V9DPLRYSaqaN9IfIqY678Df+75TKS8GLqH4+OJcMLbt Cg2A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.36.4 with SMTP id sy4mr16393091vcb.11.1376600069795; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:54:29 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "Carlos M. Martinez" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11339f3828cc1f04e402ae3b Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:54:36 -0000 --001a11339f3828cc1f04e402ae3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > My hotel was relatively cheap, good (even had A/C) and was less than > three blocks away from the IC. Only drawback: Internet was 12 euros per > day, and was sloooow. > > What I ended up doing was buying a local SIM card with unlimited data > for 30 days (it was 29 euros), and I used my Android phone as access > point. Performance was better than the hotel wi-fi. Much better. And I > could also use data outdoors. > > There were two caveats though: This 30-day offer was very convenient but > all setup instructions and the call center help were available only in > German. I got the kind help of a German friend of mine for getting it > running. And this offer was available online, I'm not sure if it was > possible to buy it from stores. > > So, how could the IETF help? Maybe by pre-arranging a SIM card sales > booth at the event's registration. I'm not saying that the IETF needs to > pay for anything, I'm only saying that it could act as facilitator, > easing the process for all attendees who wish to buy a SIM card. > [MB] This reminds me of the good ole days in late 90's when there was a table setup where folks could buy wifi cards. That was very helpful, actually.[/MB] > > cheers! > > ~Carlos > > On 8/15/13 4:26 PM, Charles E. Perkins wrote: > > On 8/15/2013 11:04 AM, Keith Moore wrote: > >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" > wrote: > >> > >>> And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really scratch > >>> my head about discussions on the attendee lists... > >> +1 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 87attendees mailing list > >> 87attendees@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > >> > > > > +1 -- but I wish the other hotels had great WiFi like the IETF hotel... > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --001a11339f3828cc1f04e402ae3b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Carlos M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic= .net> wrote:
My hotel was relatively cheap, good (even ha= d A/C) and was less than
three blocks away from the IC. Only drawback: Internet was 12 euros per
day, and was sloooow.

What I ended up doing was buying a local SIM card with unlimited data
for 30 days (it was 29 euros), and I used my Android phone as access
point. Performance was better than the hotel wi-fi. Much better. And I
could also use data outdoors.

There were two caveats though: This 30-day offer was very convenient but all setup instructions and the call center help were available only in
German. I got the kind help of a German friend of mine for getting it
running. And this offer was available online, I'm not sure if it was possible to buy it from stores.

So, how could the IETF help? Maybe by pre-arranging a SIM card sales
booth at the event's registration. I'm not saying that the IETF nee= ds to
pay for anything, I'm only saying that it could act as facilitator,
easing the process for all attendees who wish to buy a SIM card.
[MB] This reminds me of the good ole days in late 90's when = there was a table setup where folks could buy wifi cards. That was very hel= pful, actually.[/MB]=A0

cheers!

~Carlos

On 8/15/13 4:26 PM, Charles E. Perkins wrote:
> On 8/15/2013 11:04 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:40 PM, "Fred Baker (fred)" <fred@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And IETFers being a little more flexible. Sometimes I really s= cratch
>>> my head about discussions on the attendee lists...
>> +1
>>
>> ___________________________________= ____________
>> 87attendees mailing list
>> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
>>
>
> +1 =A0-- =A0but I wish the other hotels= had great WiFi like the IETF hotel...
>

_____________________________= __________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--001a11339f3828cc1f04e402ae3b-- From carlos@lacnic.net Thu Aug 15 14:06:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C5C11E817E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:06:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7iSI099R6aTX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810B811E810C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:7000:f148:dde1:869a:9cd4]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id C889D3084EA; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:05:45 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <520D42C2.3030800@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:06:10 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Barnes References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:06:11 -0000 Hello, On 8/15/13 5:54 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > > [MB] This reminds me of the good ole days in late 90's when there was > a table setup where folks could buy wifi cards. That was very helpful, > actually.[/MB] There is previous art then. :-) cheers! ~Carlos From ole@cisco.com Thu Aug 15 14:16:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5BF11E81A4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRq-3K3l6EPP for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9768911E817E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:15:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=935; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376601357; x=1377810957; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=B/LI/++33gRoN20cTSlKdFG/B+9zsrNTrt/qxJxyTCg=; b=kThHPG+QpAV9Z0rpgnSte6wIilcEGFiJfAElCrCHdTx2cZng7mFojnut jUryGvly7ji6Nwdizrou6ymnVTarGM54d4mPrdWeQHoKUnvAvQ8ES6bSy NKB5C6iWY6NFOpFtgqwO8TG2yVXKeyjobDL1nAoXwBArnNIrrd7Ttvd6G A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFADdEDVKrRDoG/2dsb2JhbABYA4MGNb9lgSIWdIIkAQEBAwEBAQE3NAsFCwsYLicwBhOICgUNuhuPE4EtEAcRhAEDiS2UYIYFhSSDOxyBNQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,888,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="85984030" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2013 21:15:55 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7FLFsLd023717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:15:54 GMT Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:15:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: "Carlos M. Martinez" In-Reply-To: <520D42C2.3030800@lacnic.net> Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <520D42C2.3030800@lacnic.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:16:02 -0000 It's certainly something that we encourage hosts/sponsors to set up if possible (including making it a donated item), but it's complicated by a lot of factors and requires additional resources etc. Ole (IAOC) Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo On Thu, 15 Aug 2013, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > Hello, > On 8/15/13 5:54 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > > [MB] This reminds me of the good ole days in late 90's when there was > > a table setup where folks could buy wifi cards. That was very helpful, > > actually.[/MB] > There is previous art then. :-) > > cheers! > > ~Carlos > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From johnl@taugh.com Thu Aug 15 14:16:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C1411E818F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AC0QMoXR-rZF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC43911E817E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17051 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2013 21:16:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=4299.520d452f.k1308; bh=PIDw67ZB78g75oVwnJpWG/EoV3fwHPNmdxAjxlU5yE4=; b=mRDUxkQJJ6xer2CbeKxMapPduKc83I6AmCkDE3kyPiocxfoAciHd5SrY8ZGfezQRKQAxJuCVkHAvzN/1RcnwTQ4EDV1lSVGL726/qz5+0utPZzPZYQJoe1Dj/fxXJrtSMHJK3mV6QozIs/jE+VV6PE9j4NlWv8yW1pTjxxTl0pJRpYZlt1F7/XKGsPRksknv9tGaHS7YIHvo0DrnOZY2Xy/vnZ3PBaCR5wOO8No1coyfqN1PWpIgaBj1onjudWpk DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=4299.520d452f.k1308; bh=PIDw67ZB78g75oVwnJpWG/EoV3fwHPNmdxAjxlU5yE4=; b=okOBGAgrOlqMrfeQPL39flIdHoy6ITn7VgYjZ2/SJdiwgTfljnypRXjiZ8RcPNlSNzFv2D9giZhPUzdCDzWi3KKS+WFzuX8Hcx+jV8gu20t78aM7+K0brxoTVQdH5qJ3CQJJ9ZYMSWi4xRtJNqBrVxVuxbjBeVLaeIAxINIaeFfy4Z8XOdgb6PFdymfd2K961HkYD0Lz4ddjIdJw8/BV/dFvqcaOnNVH7qGnSmDLUUd1dlMH7aaV2mSlYjm6kuKs Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 15 Aug 2013 21:16:09 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2013 17:16:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Charles E. Perkins" In-Reply-To: <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3825401791-1550470916-1376601391=:41520" Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:16:33 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-1550470916-1376601391=:41520 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > +1 -- but I wish the other hotels had great WiFi like the IETF hotel... The wifi at the Luetzow a block away was surprisingly good, quite adequate for VoIP calls back to the US. Not a bad hotel for €50/night. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. --3825401791-1550470916-1376601391=:41520-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Thu Aug 15 14:28:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4DC11E8192 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:28:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lDjHxZhQ6lC2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A8911E8118 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7FLSEnb017439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:28:18 -0700 Message-ID: <520D47DF.7010408@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:27:59 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <520D42C2.3030800@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:28:30 -0000 On 8/15/2013 2:15 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > It's certainly something that we encourage hosts/sponsors to set > up if possible (including making it a donated item), but it's > complicated by a lot of factors and requires additional resources > etc. It's complicated if it's run by the IETF or even the host. It's probably pretty simple if an independent vendor who provides such is merely allowed to have a table somewhere around IETF registration. The premise is that SIM card rental has become a commodity business, as indeed it appears it has. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From ole@cisco.com Thu Aug 15 14:38:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54F511E8216 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:38:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aA3ez0bKG1Z4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE0711E8196 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:38:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1056; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376602702; x=1377812302; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=3v5olNmZm4j0YxJ3Y0dIGpyowryERZxo4vTWALT45q0=; b=HZ1co6+4izwVty22SgdVnKrFXRUl84EvWp8Jq6g0pkChtoCHfnPQgMh0 zXmJ9SN4qjDspnPg7P6z3wizJ/0m6k5MAVx3bD3CNqETl36xx4+aidcay cm78iI8CVkaoZov/NLNYPk0uQxb6dZybc7Tv1EOJcLH2IyoijgfKtUzi6 M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFANNJDVKrRDoJ/2dsb2JhbABbgwY1v2WBIhZ0giQBAQEDATouERALGC5XiCMFui2OeIFYBxaDfAOJLY9khHyLKYM7HA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,888,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="86708478" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2013 21:38:22 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7FLcJlM007065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:38:20 GMT Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: dcrocker@bbiw.net In-Reply-To: <520D47DF.7010408@dcrocker.net> Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <520D42C2.3030800@lacnic.net> <520D47DF.7010408@dcrocker.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 21:38:35 -0000 On Thu, 15 Aug 2013, Dave Crocker wrote: > > It's complicated if it's run by the IETF or even the host. OLE: Right, well, I meant "facilitated by" the host/sponsor. It does usually require some local coordination. > > It's probably pretty simple if an independent vendor who provides such is > merely allowed to have a table somewhere around IETF registration. OLE: Yes, that's been done at other conferences (APRICOT for example) and I see no reason why we should not try to make it happen at the IETF, but local conditions for this "commodity" do vary and even the independent vendor will want to know what to expect. After sleeping at the desk for 3 days in New Delhi, I think the local vendor finally gave up and went home (APRICOT 2012), and that was in a hotel which had the worst WiFi setup I have ever experienced, ever. > > The premise is that SIM card rental has become a commodity business, as indeed > it appears it has. > > d/ > > -- > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net > Ole From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Thu Aug 15 19:05:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0B211E80F4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.577 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.577 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtSnd3wZ4XQL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og128.obsmtp.com (exprod7og128.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.121]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAA621F8E97 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob128.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg2I9u25U0ooD6uxK/X7ZD7nUVXDWscV@postini.com; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:43 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221181B82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA53219006D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from [10.0.10.40] (192.168.1.10) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:40 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1793.4\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:05:39 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> To: Carlos M.Martinez X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1793.4) X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.10] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:21:53 -0700 Cc: "87attendees@" Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:05:58 -0000 On Aug 15, 2013, at 4:28 PM, Carlos M. Martinez = wrote: > So, how could the IETF help? Maybe by pre-arranging a SIM card sales > booth at the event's registration. I'm not saying that the IETF needs = to > pay for anything, I'm only saying that it could act as facilitator, > easing the process for all attendees who wish to buy a SIM card. We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. It would = probably turn into the new thing to complain about, so I'm not really = surprised nobody's jumped on it. From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Thu Aug 15 19:07:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B5211E823B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FN-dsQni8Q7G for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1188A11E819A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg2JTdkwo0m5SP/9RmWfh7t8ieeiKT0o@postini.com; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:10 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E837D1B82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF14E19006D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from [10.0.10.40] (192.168.1.10) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:07:08 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1793.4\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:07:07 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <1021FD5F-8D61-474C-B0A4-F0C892E9C8A9@nominum.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> To: Mary Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1793.4) X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.10] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:22:05 -0700 Cc: "87attendees@" , "Carlos M.Martinez" Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:07:22 -0000 On Aug 15, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Mary Barnes = wrote: > [MB] This reminds me of the good ole days in late 90's when there was = a table setup where folks could buy wifi cards. That was very helpful, = actually.[/MB]=20 I still have my WaveLAN PCMCIA card in a box somewhere... From moore@network-heretics.com Fri Aug 16 07:29:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC87311E8149 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:29:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fb9qGQ84reDh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF5C11E80FA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.42]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85841211D2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:28:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=0ymJSyA7jxOeP1iDz9cmMN 99Auk=; b=OGLJB5/e35hhvAf5oIw8WP1/9dFE3ryDzMMqg8XGzS/ui99fBsytgl G+8ecmyR6gSc61oUSBbIbvyQuVvg8XCjlJlYiZfcsJ3XrE+NleNvGQqbqooBRQHP ZPGRuZNu4KdRkAbAkABW7jGy2ZQwCIxHKJydTCYSHOJtsOb1ffaDw= X-Sasl-enc: FNrerwtIoFAFsKbZADDtynajF1TeOJzoMw4TD23lz9bm 1376663338 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (unknown [65.16.145.177]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CFBBC6800EA; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:28:52 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> In-Reply-To: <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:29:07 -0000 On 08/15/2013 10:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. It would probably turn into the new thing to complain about, so I'm not really surprised nobody's jumped on it. Since people are going to complain anyway, and offer solutions to problems that they don't understand, maybe we should nominate two or three "things to complain about" in advance of each IETF meeting. For Vancouver in November, I think we should complain about the lack of air conditioning. Keith From DAtkins@mocana.com Fri Aug 16 07:31:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456AC11E8226 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GV0BUTu95cMn for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mocana.com (smtp.mocana.com [IPv6:2001:470:8254:40:21d:92ff:fe68:1e6e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C0511E8149 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1376663510-01c78875df43fd50001-zkFhpE Received: from email.mocana.com ([10.200.16.9]) by smtp.mocana.com with ESMTP id cLRZBWoPv5Kfg8SW (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: DAtkins@mocana.com Received: from yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) by yugi.mocana.local ([10.200.16.9]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:50 -0700 From: Derek Atkins To: Keith Moore Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:31:48 -0700 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: Ac6ajVeb6leP4D5US/O5a9i7EZy66Q== Message-ID: <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.200.16.9] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1376663513 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: RC4-MD5 X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.200.40.6:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at mocana.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=9.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.138562 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:31:55 -0000 T24gRnJpLCAyMDEzLTA4LTE2IGF0IDA3OjI4IC0wNzAwLCBLZWl0aCBNb29yZSB3cm90ZToNCj4g T24gMDgvMTUvMjAxMyAxMDowNSBQTSwgVGVkIExlbW9uIHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IFdlJ3ZlIGFza2Vk IGFib3V0IHRoaXMgYmVmb3JlLCBidXQgaXQgaGFzbid0IGdvdCB0cmFjdGlvbi4gICBJdCB3b3Vs ZCBwcm9iYWJseSB0dXJuIGludG8gdGhlIG5ldyB0aGluZyB0byBjb21wbGFpbiBhYm91dCwgc28g SSdtIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgc3VycHJpc2VkIG5vYm9keSdzIGp1bXBlZCBvbiBpdC4NCj4gU2luY2Ug cGVvcGxlIGFyZSBnb2luZyB0byBjb21wbGFpbiBhbnl3YXksIGFuZCBvZmZlciBzb2x1dGlvbnMg dG8gDQo+IHByb2JsZW1zIHRoYXQgdGhleSBkb24ndCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kLCBtYXliZSB3ZSBzaG91 bGQgbm9taW5hdGUgdHdvIG9yIA0KPiB0aHJlZSAidGhpbmdzIHRvIGNvbXBsYWluIGFib3V0IiBp biBhZHZhbmNlIG9mIGVhY2ggSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLg0KPiANCj4gRm9yIFZhbmNvdXZlciBpbiBO b3ZlbWJlciwgSSB0aGluayB3ZSBzaG91bGQgY29tcGxhaW4gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGxhY2sgb2YgDQo+ IGFpciBjb25kaXRpb25pbmcuDQoNClRoYXQncyBzb3J0IG9mIGxpa2UgY29tcGxhaW5pbmcgYWJv dXQgQXRsYW50YSdzIGxhY2sgb2Ygc25vdyByZW1vdmFsDQplcXVpcG1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIHN1bW1l ciAob3IgdGhlIHdpbnRlcikuLi4NCg0KPiANCj4gS2VpdGgNCg0KLWRlcmVrDQoNCg== From pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Fri Aug 16 07:48:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC1D11E8287 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.158, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GyEvjXDuF1Xe for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:43:76:96:62:40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC0111E8149 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.27]) by qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DQKq1m0070bG4ec54So0b9; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:48:00 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.164]) by omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DSnz1m00y3ZTu2S3PSo0R2; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:48:00 +0000 Message-ID: <520E3B9F.1010700@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:47:59 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1376664480; bh=7A2iR2VRX6cxiyLyuNhupUOxFMGqStgcyRzizRm8jXs=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=qYe/A9VOY5xI+PdF3clOoDlHvs9Nwm71Jst8weDkJ0vm3Te+zkWn+jUfO0rEvOF2Y XbvgngaqDkhh9OiS6X+JOu1O5mVtaAIbDLCUUK/ahtalL12ynLlTtVf0Dn5TIuBywb YK0EWFiGvmIsF05Y54GJUCj3WXFcPnw701efYcJd04l+bv3uW9WQaub6cBJtIsYVCs jaujegUlLv0PDJ5MiTqOgDJ7qwDK53ZLCaY0UHRIQbK0i3QeH5B2QAQDJ6X9pKAAdA R5w/dQT8258URXi2TOUgGkAsHtXpq+EBdZHEmYGJZqqHjo9xds3H5M0xEVZcsaBYNK 73+5nnkJD/T5A== Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:48:05 -0000 I'm too hot at pretty much every meeting, so I promise to keep complaining aobut it. :-) On 8/16/13 10:31 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-16 at 07:28 -0700, Keith Moore wrote: >> On 08/15/2013 10:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. It would probably turn into the new thing to complain about, so I'm not really surprised nobody's jumped on it. >> Since people are going to complain anyway, and offer solutions to >> problems that they don't understand, maybe we should nominate two or >> three "things to complain about" in advance of each IETF meeting. >> >> For Vancouver in November, I think we should complain about the lack of >> air conditioning. > > That's sort of like complaining about Atlanta's lack of snow removal > equipment in the summer (or the winter)... > >> >> Keith > > -derek > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 08:12:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A0C11E8284 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:12:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h5uvielOQdiz for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E0421F9BD1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5887 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2013 15:12:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=16fd.520e4152.k1308; bh=NU1RrcjHLcYa8tFvKe2MXSdcek7qKI998Kjshm1kLeE=; b=mo/0mAllIVMTBFlEVNEBzjDDWpO+sC0HiZaT6lhLx/Gez4eeh5p69wOw/PlSe4xQfAEy7nElNjLyRLjPWYxNDEd/cW1bSJ7LgaCccdUPy9TzpuuqCYaHXCrXa+mf/WvyIrA97HpF568CxJdtWA3+YDRJbSmsBISqyQgQOdsrmhdW0P0J08F8y2Z87Y1+s7aiEQcvSHNGWrvss6d4nRfu6hjNJ7aeL9dbSWMgDviAi2huTtHQmqFraaBsOVgfbDR8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=16fd.520e4152.k1308; bh=NU1RrcjHLcYa8tFvKe2MXSdcek7qKI998Kjshm1kLeE=; b=TZ7tzU73E2Fz7tsNwyF3rvbxC1MGuE1dP6rj6s1miB1h29dLFbNuxBWFUQ+Fo1ICCXiROxxH7qmysj85z4l2xzh8a9ueW+S2hp47Xl3gqVg0jdQ9uCQ6jYfUXNv34dQztZqNVikGgksoZ3RRkG6pQ2tUPLhKhvFV2CEdTd55LSlYjcZlWnXzMBGP3LjKCAH0p3zLkZpsvza5MjR0ST8ZKl/ejp3XfgPzSO+ho45MSCUyCtrE5R/G0vFZn9gEsXCA Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Aug 2013 15:11:56 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 11:12:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Keith Moore" In-Reply-To: <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:21 -0000 > For Vancouver in November, I think we should complain about the lack of air > conditioning. That's a good thought, but I plan to complain about the airport surcharge on the Canada Line, and to have a long argument about whether the faresaver tickets you can buy at the airport 7-11 are transferrable. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From dhc@dcrocker.net Fri Aug 16 08:58:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F97B11E82A7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fnZmImK7Ciz0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBE211E8168 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7GFwAF1002109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:57:53 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'87 attendees'" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> In-Reply-To: <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:58:19 -0000 On 8/15/2013 7:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. Worthy topics often fail to get traction on an IETF list because discussion gets sidetracked, rather than because the topic lacks support. Absent a core of active advocates, there is no source of pressure for pursuing the topic. When a topic shows up repeatedly and mostly (or only) garners positive comments and isn't very difficult to pursue, we should press a bit harder for its adoption. So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express support for: The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs and services. Yeah or nay? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From carlosm3011@gmail.com Fri Aug 16 09:01:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A9421F9E00 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b0P8wkLkstzB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x230.google.com (mail-vc0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9688F11E82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ha11so1553996vcb.21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:00:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wET06TzmgC8QUJO5V3tLMV+OmISksouOw597uuGVbak=; b=zsrEEWhzV12IxuIVZ35neE1NaAhYrEVY29cUvgpVWH4iVvnGI501VKrX88+UOmrDka G/8lB5+ZbS+bfzVpnAsaU5fnXOl2gdg9ckvsxyVkE8bCNiMXgCDwWh5NI0MHwvBohnR3 fIFZbIaTsCAqQDnDJJUkW9Jcg6eA0ljU9XiDl+w8JH5yQpxkZGhebM8HtCY6eIWkaVtR wXz/XrQWo1HSfoKtI0QJFMQoGimKmrkwrHUtawd+Q8dwx1CjuGVRuGPb+IzBrmJf5Nk5 DIu8Pw8m0V0+YcvmwsTELHdcGKu0w9ISif39MqMnp88GmK+LkxaDRuzMwM40woU8G0Gq OLBA== X-Received: by 10.58.211.227 with SMTP id nf3mr1893096vec.20.1376668857619; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy ([2001:13c7:7001:7000:5058:db84:6a58:a7cc]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id zg4sm320972vdb.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520E4CB3.1090508@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:00:51 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org>, Dave Crocker Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:01:28 -0000 Hello! On 8/16/13 12:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express > support for: > > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at > future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally > competitive costs and services. > > > Yeah or nay? Yeah! > > d/ > ~C. From marc@petit-huguenin.org Fri Aug 16 09:08:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E6B11E8149 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:08:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oh3GlKiyT0IY for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D859B11E81C3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4bc0:25:79d7:c76c:3194:4c] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4bc0:25:79d7:c76c:3194:4c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0061720388; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:08:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <520E4E63.9030207@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:08:03 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130630 Icedove/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org>, Dave Crocker Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:08:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 08/16/2013 08:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 8/15/2013 7:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. > > > Worthy topics often fail to get traction on an IETF list because discussion > gets sidetracked, rather than because the topic lacks support. Absent a > core of active advocates, there is no source of pressure for pursuing the > topic. > > When a topic shows up repeatedly and mostly (or only) garners positive > comments and isn't very difficult to pursue, we should press a bit harder > for its adoption. > > So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express > support for: > > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future IETF > meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs and > services. > > > Yeah or nay? Yeah. - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJSDk5dAAoJECnERZXWan7EAKkP/03azRFoeOEjgt3pR9bziJIt ggBqSEuvdbITH14agIJQOR2e/9aCvj2jz5aqaZiGT9l/TBovQbzDBK3cG022aJx9 3gOOZHUPF4T20A8YvsC7oF9Ey/73bSImWnRkFNsg3xqnRMeYdYYMZ+iHtNASDnLc vQU2gBUoeT+FhMLMLkV/8l4i4Tk40Ej9nENkmrCGs1LgGpZ50jB+8tpV9bO3y6nC cNJw4a/aYK4MQOTwzEy6BmxJq8gJeeGVo29/8ZRZenVco6V9WxiQ62PX0fqC6sl0 oll88grg/Bcodm+niVLVW7WBOqyIGbLGA6/FiXyJ85ARvi7ZUqjBWx8fRb1mZDAR Zbz1u+suzUWFMqn8wuuD1FzUq/24Em5QdDU3oN694Mbu4pea+NO2ES9eERgbv9Xc rBa393Foi5XcEKSYDhoASzIv1ROmzRuT/QullXyUZqziJF2mXwawojnxAmq/ud/y yWGMHvbkFDwLveUN2X2QvFLRGsfBkkI0pRUhhINiP/kcqPuLeVc+PN/txxpbBIRa Uqd1A9eqI+I0uZOXZ6lx3ILGqE2Bkwp+DXtVfaAg6I40KN7xfr95V6fgKZ73ZK0r qyCgTKj2DD4CivODgXKSJs5GtF3pn6NBphAMsytweZLzSrQW4jSThxZM5yBoCUH/ f0c9VDHteg/DpR/QCu/W =7Y6V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aservin@lacnic.net Fri Aug 16 09:15:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E69921F9D8D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8SilRD3-dxrZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863D421F9DD0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:7000:7196:4c0e:da83:95c1]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39E9308432; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:14:51 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <520E5012.1060709@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:15:14 -0300 From: Arturo Servin Organization: LACNIC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org>, Dave Crocker Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:15:17 -0000 On 8/16/13 12:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express > support for: > > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at > future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally > competitive costs and services. > > > Yeah or nay? Yeah! .as From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Fri Aug 16 09:19:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DF011E8197 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PILjPv53UR5d for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22a.google.com (mail-oa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA39C11E8170 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i18so2496078oag.29 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lokyWav9MkyhUtE6iL3dBR4gSAdfRuOki16OUsZCbM4=; b=tz873uQTjJ6jjuloW7E6lv6YfyqxjjI/legHIFMuaJcD7jHF6mr3QRytYDU8DteE9U 95s0ZkHWUUCQs2YH97vjxtr6w02/j/DXqT+Amg0ns6R4mcd76wmPCZR6DvaLagQ9FLoj mRVRaoTob1H9L8iC8OXIbeKktlrBQEG2CEjE20ISSjG5urVqdiMjT+//s67ilLBzxkE8 7Rn6FN9OMUcFhlcGKeqSHvCdwnH8Qnlj0QCfhdSGVyDQJQSiAAmf93F9qJBUgIAIgRW2 5oFtFoY9lPVuqudmmDw2sqxA6ry6sd+H0APqeTw0Qlrt23XaFmoa/PHtAmomhKtr2EDQ 8l4Q== X-Received: by 10.60.62.4 with SMTP id u4mr1929724oer.35.1376669960271; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (99-200-110-204.pools.spcsdns.net. [99.200.110.204]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b5sm1756421obj.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:19:18 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Atkins References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:19:21 -0000 On 8/16/2013 9:31 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-16 at 07:28 -0700, Keith Moore wrote: >> On 08/15/2013 10:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. It would probably turn into the new thing to complain about, so I'm not really surprised nobody's jumped on it. >> Since people are going to complain anyway, and offer solutions to >> problems that they don't understand, maybe we should nominate two or >> three "things to complain about" in advance of each IETF meeting. >> >> For Vancouver in November, I think we should complain about the lack of >> air conditioning. > That's sort of like complaining about Atlanta's lack of snow removal > equipment in the summer (or the winter)... Yeah, but the problem with waiting until we arrive onsite to decide what to complain about is that we're not really prepared, and railing on multiple topics lowers the quality of the complaints about all of the topics we're complaining about. If we all decide now to complain about the same thing in Vancouver in November, we'll have *months* for people to compose rants. Probably even as haikus. And then the IETF can sell the collection as poetry, and use the proceeds for the benefit of London participants (whether local or remote). (Ducks) Spencer From jbradley@pingidentity.com Fri Aug 16 09:21:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3001C11E81AB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUBfS8pMLMtU for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog108.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog108.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.199]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1ECF21F99FA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob108.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg5Re9FpIjBii46Rv178EaEaJu1Y8ctl@postini.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:18 PDT Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 9so3687683iec.21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=pAb/ik7avbqs+RzoO1MTOhRBrDzTWNQhxsF5kWy15rw=; b=Gi6CtH6j7ZHj087zKHndvKALtt6G6xWmIP+HUiCdWADAsjdXvX5zbv1HpdgjBt5XOC ZUEDmcj1oT1Pa0ls8C6mJKVIcPcpojGg5C+E3LXMjGVfqyp8uKj4GszKLInBwvrg53rf RgLJ+5lDL1e+wBJXzWgcu6leuwfIae6HHIJLrlBfZPoSFEvK7PGoUPz5AR9HMwloyXfm tDqBnaVbREOpS0l3tu7sc6Fs/ke6qB0XKIlwkxp7gGI6SvIwq4ja4+2xKM6M5pvz24VB DA0BOXpVl5923bl6xDX9ysNJArKEO/mrzbwTTAioKigt9mtfcmNIFDHp8qMSkOGu4Ek+ M1xg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmZ2zYSrpS97AQpUBXwnGyKjlnidcyEpHLgVwS5dYSsablAMVOolvnb7wPHrcCaYKF7WRzgk5K0KDjwGJ0BeSGepF4HX+OqIJc5xq+yRRm8Si3FNQ2ub6QXOglARpepDkdbuRo9mvGa4BZCST14VLr9SdciLw== X-Received: by 10.50.111.197 with SMTP id ik5mr5711881igb.19.1376670069272; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.111.197 with SMTP id ik5mr5711871igb.19.1376670069187; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.216] (190-20-24-227.baf.movistar.cl. [190.20.24.227]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p10sm11481480igx.4.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A499A94C-56F0-4A66-85FA-7F3CF044578B"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: John Bradley In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:21:03 -0400 Message-Id: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> To: dcrocker@bbiw.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:21:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A499A94C-56F0-4A66-85FA-7F3CF044578B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +1 John Bradley | Sr. Technical Architect Ping Identity | www.pingidentity.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - - O: +1 720.306.6055 M: +1 (303) 396-9546 Email: jbradley@pingidentity.com Twitter: @ve7jtb LinkedIn.com/in/v7jtb On 2013-08-16, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 8/15/2013 7:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. >=20 >=20 > Worthy topics often fail to get traction on an IETF list because = discussion gets sidetracked, rather than because the topic lacks = support. Absent a core of active advocates, there is no source of = pressure for pursuing the topic. >=20 > When a topic shows up repeatedly and mostly (or only) garners positive = comments and isn't very difficult to pursue, we should press a bit = harder for its adoption. >=20 > So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express = support for: >=20 > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at = future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally = competitive costs and services. >=20 >=20 > Yeah or nay? >=20 > d/ >=20 > --=20 > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees --Apple-Mail=_A499A94C-56F0-4A66-85FA-7F3CF044578B Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINoTCCBjQw ggQcoAMCAQICASAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0 Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAn BgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVoX DTE3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSsw KQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFy dENvbSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMsohUWcASz7GfKrpTOMKqANy9BV7V0igWdGxA8IU77L3aTxErQ+ fcxtDYZ36Z6GH0YFn7fq5RADteP0AYzrCA+EQTfi8q1+kA3m0nwtwXG94M5sIqsvs7lRP1aycBke /s5g9hJHryZ2acScnzczjBCAo7X1v5G3yw8MDP2m2RCye0KfgZ4nODerZJVzhAlOD9YejvAXZqHk sw56HzElVIoYSZ3q4+RJuPXXfIoyby+Y2m1E+YzX5iCZXBx05gk6MKAW1vaw4/v2OOLy6FZH3XHH tOkzUreG//CsFnB9+uaYSlR65cdGzTsmoIK8WH1ygoXhRBm98SD7Hf/r3FELNvUCAwEAAaOCAa0w ggGpMA8GA1UdEwEB/wQFMAMBAf8wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSuVYNv7DHKufcd +q9rMfPIHeOsuzAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBROC+8apEBbpRdphzDKNGhD0EGu8jBmBggrBgEFBQcBAQRa MFgwJwYIKwYBBQUHMAGGG2h0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jYTAtBggrBgEFBQcwAoYh aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc2ZzY2EuY3J0MFsGA1UdHwRUMFIwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNybDAnoCWgI4YhaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFydHNzbC5j b20vc2ZzY2EuY3JsMIGABgNVHSAEeTB3MHUGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIBMGYwLgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWImh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3BvbGljeS5wZGYwNAYIKwYBBQUHAgEWKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2ludGVybWVkaWF0ZS5wZGYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBADqpJw3I07QW ke9plNBpxUxcffc7nUrIQpJHDci91DFG7fVhHRkMZ1J+BKg5UNUxIFJ2Z9B90Micc/NXcs7kPBRd n6XGO/vPc87Y6R+cWS9Nc9+fp3Enmsm94OxOwI9wn8qnr/6o3mD4noP9JphwUPTXwHovjavRnhUQ HLfo/i2NG0XXgTHXS2Xm0kVUozXqpYpAdumMiB/vezj1QHQJDmUdPYMcp+reg9901zkyT3fDW/iv JVv6pWtkh6Pw2ytZT7mvg7YhX3V50Nv860cV11mocUVcqBLv0gcT+HBDYtbuvexNftwNQKD5193A 7zN4vG7CTYkXxytSjKuXrpEatEiFPxWgb84nVj25SU5q/r1Xhwby6mLhkbaXslkVtwEWT3Van49r KjlK4XrUKYYWtnfzq6aSak5u0Vpxd1rY79tWhD3EdCvOhNz/QplNa+VkIsrcp7+8ZhP1l1b2U6Ma xIVteuVMD3X0vziIwr7jxYae9FZjbxlpUemqXjcC0QaFfN7qI0JsQMALL7iGRBg7K0CoOBzECdD3 fuZil5kU/LP9cr1BK31U0Uy651bFnAMMMkqhAChIbn0ei72VnbpSsrrSdF0BAGYQ8vyHae5aCg+H 75dVCV33K6FuxZrf09yTz+Vx/PkdRUYkXmZz/OTfyJXsUOUXrym6KvI2rYpccSk5MIIHZTCCBk2g AwIBAgICJd8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENv bSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0x MjA5MDUxNzMxMjdaFw0xNDA5MDYxODE4MTZaMIGlMRkwFwYDVQQNExBrZDgyNDE2OTdMTGkzMEo3 MQswCQYDVQQGEwJDTDEiMCAGA1UECBMZTWV0cm9wb2xpdGFuYSBkZSBTYW50aWFnbzEWMBQGA1UE BxMNSXNsYSBkZSBNYWlwbzEVMBMGA1UEAxMMSm9obiBCcmFkbGV5MSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlq YnJhZGxleUBwaW5naWRlbnRpdHkuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA 2BxCCMf4BMYrj5X/k+GolMCZGZSnZhwEARklX35Dp8QxHVSFOGrbrC3SAV/fF7XblpLuyni7PsjY Z3V3QlASdhVqQQZXmcawnETnloB3yhI1sihhu0wZz4R7HeHIiNNadSyrm/IN+cHhPaMVoCAJL+kD BdG+tJNxw+AubuteLD7tT0o6K2AR8S6ttXPFkRDUR5sGmfuHjwkL69wBaA8C2apmoYX6/OtkfNyt VKrB6wgFntJqH+TgAriZD2AIM0tmdcVLoE9W5FSzLMjpA21Huwh+EdqybB+qZ1iAhwjQ46lqvgXZ UFfN4c3SobUNqMAhJ9mzbde/ktBr5EBFPBc4PwIDAQABo4IDtDCCA7AwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNV HQ8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRhOQ2w4bb8 CmJMPTTDRxpo2xspCTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBSuVYNv7DHKufcd+q9rMfPIHeOsuzAkBgNVHREEHTAb gRlqYnJhZGxleUBwaW5naWRlbnRpdHkuY29tMIICIQYDVR0gBIICGDCCAhQwggIQBgsrBgEEAYG1 NwECAjCCAf8wLgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWImh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3BvbGljeS5wZGYw NAYIKwYBBQUHAgEWKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2ludGVybWVkaWF0ZS5wZGYwgfcG CCsGAQUFBwICMIHqMCcWIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MAMCAQEagb5U aGlzIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIHdhcyBpc3N1ZWQgYWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIHRoZSBDbGFzcyAyIFZhbGlk YXRpb24gcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIG9mIHRoZSBTdGFydENvbSBDQSBwb2xpY3ksIHJlbGlhbmNlIG9u bHkgZm9yIHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCBwdXJwb3NlIGluIGNvbXBsaWFuY2Ugb2YgdGhlIHJlbHlpbmcg cGFydHkgb2JsaWdhdGlvbnMuMIGcBggrBgEFBQcCAjCBjzAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0 aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgECGmRMaWFiaWxpdHkgYW5kIHdhcnJhbnRpZXMgYXJlIGxpbWl0ZWQh IFNlZSBzZWN0aW9uICJMZWdhbCBhbmQgTGltaXRhdGlvbnMiIG9mIHRoZSBTdGFydENvbSBDQSBw b2xpY3kuMDYGA1UdHwQvMC0wK6ApoCeGJWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NydHUyLWNy bC5jcmwwgY4GCCsGAQUFBwEBBIGBMH8wOQYIKwYBBQUHMAGGLWh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3Ns LmNvbS9zdWIvY2xhc3MyL2NsaWVudC9jYTBCBggrBgEFBQcwAoY2aHR0cDovL2FpYS5zdGFydHNz bC5jb20vY2VydHMvc3ViLmNsYXNzMi5jbGllbnQuY2EuY3J0MCMGA1UdEgQcMBqGGGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tLzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEASpBS6UvTgHiCkZegAB5afTuZVz3T 1qQR7OGUTnV7Hv+Cnz+r/BMduR2/o9Jw05vcKYDkIMxDjhF8nmnfiKNxBVD74n8dB5A05CpBncrP s1dujYQh+7a00WvbkB3HElDPRsd+mkqjnm4UIWTOv16FuvSxXaDSgwDUYNmZajH8fu/SlDhNv2NO S4zAjSzkjkS03arNzRedp3vthXFGCms9B+iTtl/lSgb+/24jYcNvUffrv8iIM7gu5pdeD7Lb0lOp 3ev1DhbIEO/l1iyQKF4hIJ7fI9wyUZ5IT7ngwquKgPCu2Jb63Fv8WXfZfzcjW5+S1yVDZrmrZL+4 wnvEEZiG7TGCA2wwggNoAgEBMIGTMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20g THRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UE AxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMiBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAiXfMAkG BSsOAwIaBQCgggGtMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTEz MDgxNjE2MjEwNFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFMCyAC79SGbj4jV2xZmy0Qwd8lbjMIGkBgkrBgEE AYI3EAQxgZYwgZMwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENv bSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQICJd8wgaYGCyqGSIb3DQEJ EAILMYGWoIGTMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UE CxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20g Q2xhc3MgMiBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAiXfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA BIIBAMD3OyL9ZJLUhjVKrMhMxo1QV8uxTeK9uN41XSG6wpHqdgQ9HqtTT3BG6ldd6cmxs84C3UtT HaZndw3X5mevhjpDLQaUeiSKoWScy0KKd9G9ERb6kOdW2660aUlZ8O+FLwOQLW36e44xda2DS5Fq w+7HmkrSf2/lKtTc8iKKSsshPPrgyowXmWmX/mOfNBp1FdZtrM/zdrI9ILQuuHxi5OhaJYYqhSOp iRn9YNxpD4C7Hj69uqKkYryc+eQkg0BHCz9EvZtJY9Wsx1Wt7jraRLYICS/x0kxWZEgB0d6xWY1N xaIor+rsFWhAexU3blu/PLtQEYnC3Uw99JcZCEK+sAoAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_A499A94C-56F0-4A66-85FA-7F3CF044578B-- From eckert@cisco.com Fri Aug 16 09:25:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD07011E8193 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BrDbFXcn+si7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118AA21F9A72 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:25:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5108; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376670337; x=1377879937; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:reply-to:mime-version; bh=QefAVu1TMfocQwa5z1sUeDRR6ETQa8KyUn9lAOZw3KQ=; b=eq3ZB3ruG1XeHsNe8WyHhAZBBxfZbwxGIbJ6X2FwImI9qdU8tO1UqiBI 6lj9hHsmkHWakn8cKRTB9/ZPWslmuUz5JZV0b2oEjy9MeXFnKX+nUfIxJ 1Os3FPMQvvy4O17b39r0HsMXa3+nvNZfOAwFN58ZnvRWLBCDG2t34H31m k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FADdRDlKtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABbgkJENYNrvAUXgRQWdIIkAQEBBAEBASBLHQEIBBQJIQIEDRgLDhgBBAESiBAMoFyIA5EskDUXgnOBKgOXZIEtkCiBYYE7 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,895,1367971200"; d="scan'208,217";a="247999576" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Aug 2013 16:25:36 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com [173.37.183.86]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GGPaDm016035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:25:36 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.5.191]) by xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([173.37.183.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:25:36 -0500 From: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" , "'87 attendees'" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: Ac6anTyf8XvThCvC2k+KzTZrhh/crw== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:25:35 +0000 Message-ID: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u1376669623100emailandroidcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Toerless Eckert \(eckert\)" List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:25:42 -0000 --_000_6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u1376669623100emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QXNraW5nIGlhb2MgdG8ganVtcCBkaXJlY3RseSBpbnRvIGEgcmVzZWxsZXIgb3IgZ3JvdXAgYnV5 IHJvbGUgc29pbmRzIGEgYml0IHJ1c2hlZC4gSSB3b3VsZCBzdGFydCBhc2tpbmcgaWV0ZiBvcmcg dG8gaW52ZXN0aWdhdGUgdGhlIGJlc3QgU0lNUyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIGluZGl2aWR1YWwgcHVy Y2hhc2UgYW5kIHB1dCB0aGF0IHVwIG9uIHRoZSBpZXRmIHdlYiBwYWdlLiBUaGVuIG1heWJlIGlu dmVzdGlnYXRlIHdoZXRoZXIgYSBncm91cCBidXkgd291bGQgeWllbGQgc3VmZmljaWVudGx5IGJl dHRlciBwcmljZXMgYW5kIHJlcG9ydCBiYWNrIGF0IHRoZSBuZXh0IGlldGYgbWVldGluZy4NCg0K DQoNClR5cG9zID09IFNtYXJ0cGhvbmUNCg0KRGF2ZSBDcm9ja2VyIDxkaGNAZGNyb2NrZXIubmV0 PiB3cm90ZToNCk9uIDgvMTUvMjAxMyA3OjA1IFBNLCBUZWQgTGVtb24gd3JvdGU6DQo+IFdlJ3Zl IGFza2VkIGFib3V0IHRoaXMgYmVmb3JlLCBidXQgaXQgaGFzbid0IGdvdCB0cmFjdGlvbi4NCg0K DQpXb3J0aHkgdG9waWNzIG9mdGVuIGZhaWwgdG8gZ2V0IHRyYWN0aW9uIG9uIGFuIElFVEYgbGlz dCBiZWNhdXNlDQpkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGdldHMgc2lkZXRyYWNrZWQsIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGJlY2F1 c2UgdGhlIHRvcGljIGxhY2tzDQpzdXBwb3J0LiAgQWJzZW50IGEgY29yZSBvZiBhY3RpdmUgYWR2 b2NhdGVzLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBzb3VyY2Ugb2YNCnByZXNzdXJlIGZvciBwdXJzdWluZyB0aGUg dG9waWMuDQoNCldoZW4gYSB0b3BpYyBzaG93cyB1cCByZXBlYXRlZGx5IGFuZCBtb3N0bHkgKG9y IG9ubHkpIGdhcm5lcnMgcG9zaXRpdmUNCmNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCBpc24ndCB2ZXJ5IGRpZmZpY3Vs dCB0byBwdXJzdWUsIHdlIHNob3VsZCBwcmVzcyBhIGJpdA0KaGFyZGVyIGZvciBpdHMgYWRvcHRp b24uDQoNClNvIGhlcmUncyBhIHNpbXBsZSBwcm9wb3NhbCB0aGF0IEkgd2lsbCBhc2sgdGhlIHJl c3Qgb2YgeW91IHRvIGV4cHJlc3MNCnN1cHBvcnQgZm9yOg0KDQogICAgICBUaGUgSUFPQyBzaG91 bGQgcHVyc3VlIGhhdmluZyBhIGxvY2FsIFNJTSBjYXJkIHJlbnRhbCBib290aCBhdA0KZnV0dXJl IElFVEYgbWVldGluZ3MuICBUaGUgY2FyZCBjaG9pY2VzIHNob3VsZCByZXByZXNlbnQgbG9jYWxs eQ0KY29tcGV0aXRpdmUgY29zdHMgYW5kIHNlcnZpY2VzLg0KDQoNClllYWggb3IgbmF5Pw0KDQpk Lw0KDQotLQ0KRGF2ZSBDcm9ja2VyDQpCcmFuZGVuYnVyZyBJbnRlcm5ldFdvcmtpbmcNCmJiaXcu bmV0DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KODdh dHRlbmRlZXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby84N2F0dGVuZGVlcw0K --_000_6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u1376669623100emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5Pg0KPGRpdj5Bc2tpbmcg aWFvYyB0byBqdW1wIGRpcmVjdGx5IGludG8gYSByZXNlbGxlciBvciBncm91cCBidXkgcm9sZSBz b2luZHMgYSBiaXQgcnVzaGVkLiBJIHdvdWxkIHN0YXJ0IGFza2luZyBpZXRmIG9yZyB0byBpbnZl c3RpZ2F0ZSB0aGUgYmVzdCBTSU1TIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmb3IgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBwdXJjaGFzZSBh bmQgcHV0IHRoYXQgdXAgb24gdGhlIGlldGYgd2ViIHBhZ2UuIFRoZW4gbWF5YmUgaW52ZXN0aWdh dGUgd2hldGhlciBhIGdyb3VwDQogYnV5IHdvdWxkIHlpZWxkIHN1ZmZpY2llbnRseSBiZXR0ZXIg cHJpY2VzIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgYmFjayBhdCB0aGUgbmV4dCBpZXRmIG1lZXRpbmcuPC9kaXY+DQo8 ZGl2Pjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj48YnI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+PGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjc1JTtjb2xvcjojNTc1NzU3Ij5UeXBvcyA9PSBT bWFydHBob25lPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxicj4NCkRhdmUgQ3JvY2tlciAmbHQ7ZGhjQGRjcm9j a2VyLm5ldCZndDsgd3JvdGU6PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMiI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQt c2l6ZToxMHB0OyI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJQbGFpblRleHQiPk9uIDgvMTUvMjAxMyA3OjA1IFBN LCBUZWQgTGVtb24gd3JvdGU6PGJyPg0KJmd0OyBXZSd2ZSBhc2tlZCBhYm91dCB0aGlzIGJlZm9y ZSwgYnV0IGl0IGhhc24ndCBnb3QgdHJhY3Rpb24uPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KV29ydGh5IHRv cGljcyBvZnRlbiBmYWlsIHRvIGdldCB0cmFjdGlvbiBvbiBhbiBJRVRGIGxpc3QgYmVjYXVzZSA8 YnI+DQpkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGdldHMgc2lkZXRyYWNrZWQsIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhl IHRvcGljIGxhY2tzIDxicj4NCnN1cHBvcnQuJm5ic3A7IEFic2VudCBhIGNvcmUgb2YgYWN0aXZl IGFkdm9jYXRlcywgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gc291cmNlIG9mIDxicj4NCnByZXNzdXJlIGZvciBwdXJz dWluZyB0aGUgdG9waWMuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KV2hlbiBhIHRvcGljIHNob3dzIHVwIHJlcGVhdGVk bHkgYW5kIG1vc3RseSAob3Igb25seSkgZ2FybmVycyBwb3NpdGl2ZSA8YnI+DQpjb21tZW50cyBh bmQgaXNuJ3QgdmVyeSBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8gcHVyc3VlLCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgcHJlc3MgYSBiaXQg PGJyPg0KaGFyZGVyIGZvciBpdHMgYWRvcHRpb24uPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KU28gaGVyZSdzIGEgc2lt cGxlIHByb3Bvc2FsIHRoYXQgSSB3aWxsIGFzayB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB5b3UgdG8gZXhwcmVzcyA8 YnI+DQpzdXBwb3J0IGZvcjo8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJz cDsgVGhlIElBT0Mgc2hvdWxkIHB1cnN1ZSBoYXZpbmcgYSBsb2NhbCBTSU0gY2FyZCByZW50YWwg Ym9vdGggYXQgPGJyPg0KZnV0dXJlIElFVEYgbWVldGluZ3MuJm5ic3A7IFRoZSBjYXJkIGNob2lj ZXMgc2hvdWxkIHJlcHJlc2VudCBsb2NhbGx5IDxicj4NCmNvbXBldGl0aXZlIGNvc3RzIGFuZCBz ZXJ2aWNlcy48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpZZWFoIG9yIG5heT88YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpkLzxicj4N Cjxicj4NCi0tIDxicj4NCkRhdmUgQ3JvY2tlcjxicj4NCkJyYW5kZW5idXJnIEludGVybmV0V29y a2luZzxicj4NCmJiaXcubmV0PGJyPg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX188YnI+DQo4N2F0dGVuZGVlcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8YnI+DQo4N2F0dGVu ZGVlc0BpZXRmLm9yZzxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vODdhdHRlbmRlZXMiIHRhcmdldD0iX0JMQU5LIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvLzg3YXR0ZW5kZWVzPC9hPjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9zcGFuPjwv Zm9udD4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u1376669623100emailandroidcom_-- From ynir@checkpoint.com Fri Aug 16 09:26:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4495011E8197 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R0A8pAd+dmbo for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C76E11E8193 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7GGQTqH028580; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:26:29 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {520E52B5-0-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:26:28 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: "" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOmplzMgwDZ2dwXkuIyYc4tKG6pJmX0ziA Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:26:28 +0000 Message-ID: <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.166] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 118eb33688290e3d4d836d1122f0d38bb573f286fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <581EBAEC3CD4BB47B34E2F14D93CA34B@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:26:44 -0000 Nay. If the host wants to arrange this, fine. But some countries have stran= ge laws about this. Some phones work on some networks, but not on others.=20 In Orlando, I found out that my phone would work on the Verizon network, bu= t not AT&T. If the booth sold AT&T sims, we could have a nice, big discussi= on about why we didn't have Verizon and how I've wasted $X for a card that = doesn't work. On Aug 16, 2013, at 6:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 8/15/2013 7:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. >=20 >=20 > Worthy topics often fail to get traction on an IETF list because discussi= on gets sidetracked, rather than because the topic lacks support. Absent a= core of active advocates, there is no source of pressure for pursuing the = topic. >=20 > When a topic shows up repeatedly and mostly (or only) garners positive co= mments and isn't very difficult to pursue, we should press a bit harder for= its adoption. >=20 > So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express su= pport for: >=20 > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future= IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive cost= s and services. >=20 >=20 > Yeah or nay? >=20 > d/ >=20 > --=20 > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 09:31:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5986111E8197 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:31:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kzo+NwpR6Ydt for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCBD11E8193 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 21581 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2013 16:31:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=544c.520e53da.k1308; bh=mM6u0xCCBkwZcOyUQgBKwvjNE5M1VVvuuhQvYPkMq3c=; b=sII5Nn2/R1SAz2wTScJY35mcKhi2KytSRNBcyRGunwhTBDALcNX9iKlPTRbnJbPIQeY0b9R9Q+uMovasN9HCpw7YKNsBQHkT3P0If0iS2IRBbjZcjI3UuV4j9d96u1GcZVSWnzqKMjCW1n+1CwGWC2gUmh+5Ps8Hg/CJGW6JRUoaFc793JhgVAeJ7bQVFmY7vbrkSP0HGzMmRrYFj39QUHO5wRPWu1bWQvynjYrOi7TOekSFIxOyaRFi1Rp2hJ+Z DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=544c.520e53da.k1308; bh=mM6u0xCCBkwZcOyUQgBKwvjNE5M1VVvuuhQvYPkMq3c=; b=A/sAtZdMb/WIUAD/BvZYsMmK0XfsHxr6u4FZIBDrgX/0aCLYbl9M7xIEpC6TJZFWLhUcgIIAknqirLbORA6zKtpJGlOqT/lSyuB5m58wQTzDQ9GJOnzkYmgPemnzh3LBAPpRxqWxLdK2ylTv7Q7auzPABQvDbK+DtMd6lfX1AYxpTG8mP4RGzBu60Jt/YbRAtfLEsvstVLv2V2w39R+9IqF2BXFIxJ8oZfw/ZqAw+0gk0KbZHBo3B1ZLq/i48vlo Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Aug 2013 16:30:59 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 12:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" In-Reply-To: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:31:23 -0000 > Asking iaoc to jump directly into a reseller or group buy role soinds a > bit rushed. I would start asking ietf org to investigate the best SIMS > available for individual purchase and put that up on the ietf web page. > Then maybe investigate whether a group buy would yield sufficiently > better prices and report back at the next ietf meeting. Yow. I read Dave's proposal as look for a local vendor who'll set up a table near the registration desk. The point is to make it easy to get reasonably priced SIMs, not necessarily a rock bottom price. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From moore@network-heretics.com Fri Aug 16 09:33:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FC811E8193 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ebz2pMbf8Fjf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3229511E8197 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFBD201FF; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:33:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:message-id:cc:from :subject:date:to; s=smtpout; bh=hw4BgWWwaytnE3pU4j6iq6AAR+Y=; b= rV+NiSVJAK6yBN8u+18W/9Lz6eCYxSDQO5wOX9o6OOSDHKIsLXIFKBCrLm/0uXZN M20RBgwELFodMMm8D9uuqVtXfDkRKY3YobdPACHq62IMsmfjN9dcKbzTc8kh4IU8 xbWPCcyPVwabF8OuuxQJTjZKROqbkVolHhtjvympwbY= X-Sasl-enc: s8ZAUIi0WtzPvtWpXnPmPy7PRUSoZeQkblUL1UYdiLni 1376670807 Received: from [21.148.193.223] (unknown [66.87.153.223]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 77837C00E83; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:33:27 -0400 (EDT) References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Keith Moore Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:33:24 -0400 To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:33:33 -0000 On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future I= ETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs a= nd services. I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to demand more a= nd more free services from event organizers. That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards easily a= vailable, but probably only if accompanied by English language support. It w= ouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A pointer to a nearb= y store or one at the local airport would probably be sufficient.= From hardie@google.com Fri Aug 16 09:39:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A4C11E8169 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0qnjJV0bjiRZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22d.google.com (mail-oa0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A980E11E8152 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id m1so2524458oag.18 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5JhHpNdLkR6b/IcUq5qVAwe77ac6J9WeIsysL8ec4Nk=; b=gdVAwcdXhmoZJ4UxtsyibaiDFkjbc3wZv3wqU3+GTwlBNQpgMjresTYybiwjw9jjBn xo4F4zt9qG+RlObKTfuc0eLMl2+W1MppJDztLFOuEscwBcS/mBAaj4tWZimDtFmBHiUQ //KvSka//b1fN2A5KcBoQjfgxEuwZvedx/5htdyJgn19e2xWz+sMKwemnlt4yiNHx4Ta ASeedy2Su/YAEz7OqwkoZdZd4hLXvGKkOW2KFcn6bd5N6tR2nDYCg/XvJ7CKURDpGOqT XcQMcPh3f6OOWaGnwupUM7I6JgjSPyUhblU6iy6/juFmMKFm9mScrxfcCpqCcZ30lW3C ec2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5JhHpNdLkR6b/IcUq5qVAwe77ac6J9WeIsysL8ec4Nk=; b=eJJwsWLq/Wu9x1p5sktePAooRZ9f0d2CcweI+k2KIpc3wiSBo5plmZwPhMPU1RaFxp StZgsxGPD6r1f61IB+CUq61VuCWhJZk4vmRYw3dkqpgC4u3cQkRs6N1GOG5VO/SEzAL2 thz5SBEbglPpav/UQaLUcTUdlclGTcBWpvajxQ24KmIhoWub+Mg+des1gLbsO5mvOHI8 tcEmtawfe5GgGRNn5be+6VaSwf7Z3uFF3/6v5zHm3mmX25SeIHEsOw5OIhJfnlI3HGRq cJIlRIqoPoaeJhJDTxky645j0bSEHyKbuN7MMtYvAvlgAVxLcM0y2MpQZNeM7xXG5q+3 GorQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkXjJ42Wzxn9+unXusFa8WdDvvEdWdtYtfJiuYY7vtBya4youPj785XldmJJI/ccOvzk4e2jI22nLG5ZFAIynf+ccaZp+iI6bp70IW0jljgn05nSypinM5rJCXxe8NsEo2OBSS2JrYLRd1Q2HC6uXprL8i+7Of+RmufD1MqT91LmssRlh5SxOycGmc5E670Ah4rzBO9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.133.133 with SMTP id pc5mr1183821oeb.63.1376671163162; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.248.134 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ted Hardie To: Spencer Dawkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b47249ca749fc04e4133b37 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Derek Atkins , Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:39:24 -0000 --047d7b47249ca749fc04e4133b37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Spencer Dawkins < spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Probably even as haikus. Hot winds of change blow endless words past ears of stone but the room stays cold. (The topic was air conditioning, right? Definitely air conditioning.) Ted --047d7b47249ca749fc04e4133b37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 9:19 AM, S= pencer Dawkins <spencerdawk= ins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:<= /span>

Probably even as haikus.=A0


Hot winds of ch= ange blow
endless words past ears of stone
but the room stays cold.


= (The topic was air conditioning, right? =A0Definitely air conditioning.)

Ted

--047d7b47249ca749fc04e4133b37-- From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 09:39:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A7611E81E6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s0tcioOsNheo for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA6211E81E0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23084 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2013 16:39:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=5a2b.520e55c0.k1308; bh=1FZKIhw32+5MpXuD2qgnszimf7OCkpWBw9A/gpw+FVE=; b=XLcW1EAZD7Dmki0XqdJUlye6Aodye16GmTbRjsmJrzpQ0c85dhDkpN/mRbQKwcfUNiEQiri3oSsiNaHb7vCJWU0WxbVBefmEqbt4gKMcSxYVz9j0phwA9UUu+0jrUH89pBbg4OH9OGR4EKJiiGCUcmNriUQvAB5KUXOKFc87siqjSucru+CFBAzle3dPywXJgPytNi/6uAG/c5Ayf56E7YnnKaS7kaeKAg6tUwQllO9eVWSe5j7Mf37TFpIkf1yD DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=5a2b.520e55c0.k1308; bh=1FZKIhw32+5MpXuD2qgnszimf7OCkpWBw9A/gpw+FVE=; b=kLalSBmdtoXNIUFSg2ZDw9gbyLJXH2aMVInyncVQJoZEue2eaVQB8OEsKJ4ddiMjLeR7JkAdqDn9dBtUBm6fK3mYdf0pf7FDSdWdfYB7My9893szA4ShMTr/7tBBdleNxvAfY6X+kMWEURIUstH+Bavuj5bi/Z20YjhJ+hjtOd+eeOJYtwAGz5NIHGCH/rRz2k3h/Sy4uHbNPz6KvtQr4wdUYnlXg6l2Tjx8SAdxUsUOW8bteguVCX+BFgNBVEpW Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Aug 2013 16:39:06 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 12:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Yoav Nir" In-Reply-To: <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:39:31 -0000 > In Orlando, I found out that my phone would work on the Verizon network, > but not AT&T. If the booth sold AT&T sims, we could have a nice, big > discussion about why we didn't have Verizon and how I've wasted $X for a > card that doesn't work. North America is unusual in having two completely incompatible cell phone systems. Verizon and Sprint in the US and Bell in Canada are CDMA, AT&T and T-Mobile in the US and Rogers and Telus in Canada are GSM, on different bands than GSM in most of the rest of the world (850 and 1900 rather than 900 and 1800.) Pelephone in Israel is one of the very few mobile carriers elsewhere that is compatible with American CDMA. I think it's reasonable to expect people to know what kind of phone they have and what kind of networks it will work on before they go looking for SIMs. In your case it's easy, since CDMA phones don't have SIMs. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From tony@att.com Fri Aug 16 09:44:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BA321F91BF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:44:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7elhG9owS5ed for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438E911E82B8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.23] (EHLO alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id ef65e025.0.587246.00-377.1649805.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:44:49 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 520e57013465053b-e7aa0acb929016ff91d263aefb86a116c986a8e1 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GGijhv029684 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:45 -0400 Received: from alpi132.aldc.att.com (alpi132.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.2]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GGieA0029641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:44 -0400 Received: from alpi153.aldc.att.com (alpi153.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by alpi132.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:44:26 GMT Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GGiQvA018484 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:26 -0400 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpi153.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GGiITb018239 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:22 -0400 Received: from [135.91.110.247] (ds135-91-110-247.dhcps.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.247]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20130816164414gw1004nh5ke> (Authid: tony); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:44:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.247] Message-ID: <520E56D6.60506@att.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:06 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.23] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=GP6/5JxK c=1 sm=0 a=VXHOiMMwGAwA+y4G3/O+aw==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=VAG9_9YYm2gA:10 a=sCfsyOEanakA:10 a=d3JluCgh1tUA:10 a=ofM] X-AnalysisOut: [gfj31e3cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=zQP7CpK] X-AnalysisOut: [OAAAA:8 a=lT5xPzPz4D4A:10 a=t_gtxr5uj99xSdqrzDwA:9 a=wPNLv] X-AnalysisOut: [fGTeEIA:10 a=uRg91Z0w33MA:10 a=00Apzek7kbkA:10] Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:44:59 -0000 On 8/16/2013 12:19 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Probably even as haikus. now that is just a challenge that an engineer cannot e're resist Tony Hansen From swmike@swm.pp.se Fri Aug 16 09:54:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8163E11E82AF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jgvwtMu0IFDz for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F98211E8165 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1DF579C; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:54:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149549A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:54:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:54:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: '87 attendees' <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:54:26 -0000 On Fri, 16 Aug 2013, Dave Crocker wrote: > > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at > future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally > competitive costs and services. > > Yeah or nay? Sounds good to me. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From carlos@lacnic.net Fri Aug 16 10:12:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3519111E8185 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:12:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cyMuSedhHGh7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C73911E8174 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:7000:88eb:1ebd:e747:f92f]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC185308436 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:11:55 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <520E5D6F.2030807@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:12:15 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:12:24 -0000 If one declined to participate, well, the organization can tell us about that. We can take that into account when we vote with our wallets. Also, no one is asking the IAOC to enter into exclusivity agreements with anyone. If three, four companies might want to have booths there, the more the merrier. I also consider a reasonable expectation that IETF attendees are well versed into the differences between CDMA and GSM/3G networks, as well as the different bands in operation. cheers! ~Carlos On 8/16/13 1:26 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Nay. If the host wants to arrange this, fine. But some countries have strange laws about this. Some phones work on some networks, but not on others. > > In Orlando, I found out that my phone would work on the Verizon network, but not AT&T. If the booth sold AT&T sims, we could have a nice, big discussion about why we didn't have Verizon and how I've wasted $X for a card that doesn't work. > > > On Aug 16, 2013, at 6:57 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > >> On 8/15/2013 7:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. >> >> Worthy topics often fail to get traction on an IETF list because discussion gets sidetracked, rather than because the topic lacks support. Absent a core of active advocates, there is no source of pressure for pursuing the topic. >> >> When a topic shows up repeatedly and mostly (or only) garners positive comments and isn't very difficult to pursue, we should press a bit harder for its adoption. >> >> So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express support for: >> >> The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs and services. >> >> >> Yeah or nay? >> >> d/ >> >> -- >> Dave Crocker >> Brandenburg InternetWorking >> bbiw.net >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From bob.hinden@gmail.com Fri Aug 16 10:51:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0007821F9D28 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id faBhT7QzjSg5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-x233.google.com (mail-gh0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417DD21F9C12 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gh0-f179.google.com with SMTP id f16so334125ghb.38 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=PzFt+cKhHlnlpaDU/fTWWmPgdzYpCsHShYZl99OKa2Y=; b=kRQpv8v706LIxrqhvr1/12J3dzPUmGm3uiapp1fIfCPNs714YOqA6HLKY1aS/fy0C/ /PnxcQ8bnOZW+8Di4tpUddm8uBaLwlEKsLDOe1BUhBHFt7BfoPPiiD2yYMh/R9oer4RX rMMcRGZboY8LpVUEE5iOZwrldRnBVi7CTZ67KgsKvq5yaNc5YKfs45R71vhs+EwS26iA L9GYh6dhsfPa4uWYWPHGpfkoGZO5B9dFECMzb/rjUavS46E0Oya0rs5wOiFloQuFmfUI +NEPhpoPNOTFiV7Y1cSPWAKnPr8hqthWIf92+VkSCqPa9Pjopj7USBEfI8nDzZ7JQC2L f85g== X-Received: by 10.236.176.67 with SMTP id a43mr1809543yhm.68.1376675478305; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v23sm2955365yhv.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:51:13 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> To: Keith Moore X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:51:24 -0000 Keith, On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Keith Moore = wrote: > On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >=20 >> The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at = future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally = competitive costs and services. >=20 > I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to demand = more and more free services from event organizers. >=20 > That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards = easily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language = support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A = pointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be = sufficient. Good points. Personally, I doubt the economics would make selling SIMs on site = worthwhile for an SIM vendor. What percentage of attendees would do buy = a SIM (requires an unlocked phone, motivation, etc.)? Would that = generate enough revenue for the seller to have someone on site for a day = or two? If the IAOC took this on, it would map into asking the Secretariat to = organize this, which would map into increased costs for all of us. I think would be better to collect information on where to buy a SIM on = the meeting Wiki. We clearly have some experts on this topic in the = IETF. Bob From carlos@lacnic.net Fri Aug 16 11:07:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E5FE11E8186 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.824 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.824 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.776, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iaJuYdZFOQgu for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0F811E81DB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.87.57]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0918B308454; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:07:00 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:07:18 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Moore References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> In-Reply-To: <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:07:36 -0000 Hello, On 8/16/13 1:33 PM, Keith Moore wrote: > On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > >> The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs and services. > I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to demand more and more free services from event organizers. No one is asking for anything for free here, what we are asking for is some help from the local organizers, who are the ones who know the ground they walk on, and for the IAOC to actually forward this need to these organizers. > > That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards easily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A pointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be sufficient. I commented on this a few emails ago: this wouldn't have worked in Germany, because of the lack of English-speaking support and for the availability of convenient offers in stores. This is where the help of the locals comes in. > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From moore@network-heretics.com Fri Aug 16 11:39:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E041A11E8186 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:39:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgAybE4zxE40 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C9211E811F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.45]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB87020BA4; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:38:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=hbh1OxeOyTUlo2COpkQRHu Xx23o=; b=gQXNJIsEtYX+1qKd/FQnnFAReGpt3mZeux5FxQ29l2gCIKFi16BB66 zQ3iWLw7TNenKpg8dZD7jJoq52c5qWrj+3qH1Vzs4xRwyyfPlxdLqWHjKmG9nLMU xA8ZpmaWlFkAfVucisbRIEOPZ+ShRt6lFZ5cnsi/ium/Dlk5AhV1g= X-Sasl-enc: mSU872Bj7sDv2R3fMYYsUg0PLa91K7Du9Yk2xTaZJlrt 1376678339 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (unknown [65.16.145.177]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2AA2E680119; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <520E71BC.8010303@network-heretics.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:38:52 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Hinden References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:39:17 -0000 On 08/16/2013 01:51 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > I think would be better to collect information on where to buy a SIM on the meeting Wiki. We clearly have some experts on this topic in the IETF. That seems like a good idea. From ole@cisco.com Fri Aug 16 11:41:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C761811E811F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:41:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fX+KDd3VRjGa for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19E411E81CF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:41:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1093; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376678460; x=1377888060; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=y6ADfYDvLegM0NRAzBasOToM5Bb0t2TKWqGPB4L83Xk=; b=lWZZpM925QeR74JkUhjYVqS4Rv1+W50YXoQZOZG1K7JY0Hkq6xh6BCB1 HTE19t9CH0RqcQp/FIIoQXphQ/064xI0kFIwRMVL2ITU9pU8mPNY0dwYd JmHmzSaUCi0QMtsBbkrQK4jxPTAE96F57nvc20m3YYQrLnTkN4nwf3T2z k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AioFAKJxDlKrRDoI/2dsb2JhbABRCoMGrEOTYoErFnSCJAEBAQMBOi0SBQsLRlcGiB0Fug+PCYFHB4QSA4ktlGCLLIFhgVsc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,896,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="86045601" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Aug 2013 18:41:00 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GIewoI020331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:40:59 GMT Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 11:40:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: John R Levine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:41:05 -0000 On Fri, 16 Aug 2013, John R Levine wrote: > I think it's reasonable to expect people to know what kind of phone > they have and what kind of networks it will work on before they go > looking for SIMs. In your case it's easy, since CDMA phones don't > have SIMs. > Unless of course it is an iPhone. The (CDMA) Verizon iPhone5 for example, comes with a Verizon SIM card which may indeed be some kind of "dummy," but the important point is that you can insert any GSM SIM (allright, nano-SIM) card in the SIM slot since this iPhone ALSO supports all the GSM bands and is unlocked for GSM by default. We can certainly ask local hosts/sponsors to help up identify SIM options (I wrote this up for the Hiroshima meeting for example), but I agree that it is probably unreasonable to expect someone to man a SIM desk for several days, unless of course a local carrier also happens to be meeting sponsors (ahem, DT :-), local regulations notwithstanding. And in case anyone is wondering: There is really no such thing as LTE Roaming, at least not yet. Ole From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 16 12:35:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26B411E8182 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_AFFORDABLE=1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qg0qACGpBzaS for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FD111E8129 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VAPo9-0006y6-Rh; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:35:38 +0000 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:35:36 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Toerless Eckert In-Reply-To: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:35:43 -0000 > Asking iaoc to jump directly into a reseller or group buy role soinds > a bit rushed. I would start asking ietf org to investigate the best > SIMS available for individual purchase and put that up on the ietf web > page. when a telco is a sponsor, the conference advocating competitive sims is a bit rude. and any telco which can afford to sponsor is probably not selling the affordable sims. :) and it is costly for a vendor to do a sim booth which has trivial sales. and just to save the self-entitled from walking down the street to the closest just-about-any store? "the sims at the registration desk were 28 quatloos and the ones down the street were only 26.50!" -- 92 attendees list. the ietf has not been very successful fishing in these waters. i think the closest we came was maastricht, and it was not worth the vendor's effort. as ole said, apricot's experience has been insufficient sales to warrant any effort on the part of a vendor. same for every other conference i know which has tried it. perhaps those advocating this should leap into the market opportunity and show us the way! randy From ynir@checkpoint.com Fri Aug 16 12:42:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB29711E8203 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YZhQHIT91YJz for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825E311E821C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7GJg0Is010172; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:42:03 +0300 X-CheckPoint: {520E8088-A-1B221DC2-1FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.105]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.223]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:41:59 +0300 From: Yoav Nir To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOmplzMgwDZ2dwXkuIyYc4tKG6pJmX0ziAgAADowCAADL9gA== Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:41:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.113] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean x-cpdlp: 11f26a9da7c8af66bc2a0fb18b87dd7b0c6cec4679 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0F7CC9A685A6DB4DBB33E47381A19802@ad.checkpoint.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:42:21 -0000 On Aug 16, 2013, at 7:39 PM, John R Levine wrote: >> In Orlando, I found out that my phone would work on the Verizon network,= but not AT&T. If the booth sold AT&T sims, we could have a nice, big discu= ssion about why we didn't have Verizon and how I've wasted $X for a card th= at doesn't work. >=20 > North America is unusual in having two completely incompatible cell phone= systems. Verizon and Sprint in the US and Bell in Canada are CDMA, AT&T a= nd T-Mobile in the US and Rogers and Telus in Canada are GSM, on different = bands than GSM in most of the rest of the world (850 and 1900 rather than 9= 00 and 1800.) Pelephone in Israel is one of the very few mobile carriers e= lsewhere that is compatible with American CDMA. I think they've moved on from CDMA, and are now on the GSM and descendants = bandwagon like the other operators. Anyway, my phone definitely has a SIM a= nd I'm not using Pelephone. > I think it's reasonable to expect people to know what kind of phone they = have and what kind of networks it will work on before they go looking for S= IMs. In your case it's easy, since CDMA phones don't have SIMs. I got a "travel to the US" phone from work with an AT&T SIM. I thought I co= uld transfer that SIM to my phone and use that. When that didn't work, I mo= ved the AT&T SIM back to the work phone, and put my regular (Orange) SIM ca= rd back in my phone. It happily joined the Verizon network. Roaming charges= being what they are, I disabled that immediately. It turns out that my Nokia 920 supports bands that are used in Israel and o= n Verizon, but not on AT&T. This is not something that I could have known b= eforehand, as there are phones with the exact same model number that do wor= k on AT&T, though I don't know if there are such phones that work on both. Yoav From joelja@gmail.com Fri Aug 16 12:42:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE2011E8203 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QvK17VXhSL4F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22a.google.com (mail-pb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA1411E821C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id un15so2377790pbc.1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KBC38aD7XsD5bUMAnRyA4dJdoxYX3AlC3Su+cMtVDxI=; b=I86IlsnocQeNadL/6FCEVRzY3xs8bfRdqRncrM4ofp6GlldjNeNO2Gh2sG128owEc8 Tc1kHl2VjilPyIYV0E4WkWhxEnUcepe62A3YXIxC/K7dUfVrRAfyK3EXrGk05yeHAqcr foFPKuz433eDHE85lkp9XZSHg/OoVHKT85ViWWSVtgPLa0P/prz01dg+m9IT7crUBfxQ MnqmdyNTb9wMKUobCbj2m3q66e0nFyUAZBo+lakU9kHDK8T380URmdKtc6vtYfWs61iQ VyUlGNlP7LBW8KBThPkPA69g6u8Yr2dBRcp3Hq5E7HPh7FaJeN86K60PgPiU8k/CbmzY z00Q== X-Received: by 10.67.1.101 with SMTP id bf5mr4705337pad.50.1376682164436; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com. [64.47.153.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ib9sm3730522pbc.43.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520E80B2.3010904@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:42:42 -0700 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush , Toerless Eckert References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:42:47 -0000 On 8/16/13 12:35 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > perhaps those advocating this should leap into the market opportunity > and show us the way! A not insignificant number of IETF participants (me included probably) share responsibility for the market failure that leads to massive machinery behind the distribution merchandising and sales of very small pieces of plastic being a significant obstacle to seamless mobility. > randy > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From charliep@computer.org Fri Aug 16 13:59:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F2711E80FF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7hfBe4kZYLd8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36E8511E8178 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [99.51.72.196] (helo=[192.168.1.84]) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VAR75-0002gW-HD; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:59:15 -0400 Message-ID: <520E9298.5020900@computer.org> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:59:04 -0700 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Saratoga Blue Skies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org><20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info><60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com><1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com><8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com><192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com><520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net><8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com><520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net><24B41ED1-1D08-49EB-968D-940AF980F835@checkpoint.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 137d7d78656ed6919973fd6a8f21c4f2d780f4a490ca6956d5d4673fe7faad86c5d62af871aabbf2a0948ca8fed026e0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.51.72.196 Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 20:59:26 -0000 Hello Ole, On 8/16/2013 11:40 AM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > And in case anyone is wondering: There is really no such thing as LTE > Roaming, at least not yet. > > Ole That's because they won't support Mobile IP. At least not yet. -- Regards, Charlie P. From kevin.lahey@oracle.com Fri Aug 16 15:12:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1CD11E8173 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AkqYqIw8FLfO for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D1011E815C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7GMCNLS009020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:12:25 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7GMCMJr026821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:12:23 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7GMCMh8001559; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:12:22 GMT Received: from dhcp-santaclara18-3fl-west-10-132-146-215.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/10.132.146.215) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Kevin Lahey In-Reply-To: <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:12:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> To: "Carlos M. Martinez" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Keith Moore , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:12:37 -0000 On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:07 AM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: >> That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards = easily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language = support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A = pointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be = sufficient. > I commented on this a few emails ago: this wouldn't have worked in > Germany, because of the lack of English-speaking support and for the > availability of convenient offers in stores. This is where the help of > the locals comes in. I had no problem getting a SIM good for 500MB/month for =8010 at a shop = down the street from my hotel. The guy at the counter was happy to = speak English (rather than suffering with my college German), and was = super-helpful. I was feeling kind of ill, or I would've tried harder to = find the slightly better deals mentioned on this list for text and voice = as well at the same price. OTOH, I could imagine that getting a SIM in, say, Orlando, might've been = a bit more complex. Kevin kevin.lahey@oracle.com From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 15:34:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CD311E81BD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:34:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nS-MWtblR1iX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9A911E81B8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 84786 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2013 22:34:52 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b31.520ea90c.k1308; bh=jpaX5cPuBkq8YWIdjdltQtSaE4A1MDxVZzckGDGwato=; b=Fq314Ae68RUGIlrY82chzhJpy42LyZy79K9/ofclAjPkPacSHAJMoNuJAKBNKH7Z+VypbOjBOq4D54zwE0zdrdwob0DsDA3uX7WtG6MrpKSG4q7uPmnzO9Yj5NBn1ipQHbgvIOJJlgWQEPVZIt9nE/gI3fYChYc/8KeNoFwYO4SKeYoB5e29M2vFHPPqUg7VyihfpSnwZE5yapFRRIZXwUn8xoauyV4j7f9xlUkAbuzn0u6EZNomCAjEIQL6UWM+ DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b31.520ea90c.k1308; bh=jpaX5cPuBkq8YWIdjdltQtSaE4A1MDxVZzckGDGwato=; b=ILzLqgqbieen2yF9Swmt5OtE3/oXj4sftXn3Oe9ANJYnDW0DPItTxU6zy88x1o5cDVGrwTg4cIYcXvrt8c7l/y8GeU4oB/WWQEjdELhUmtdkbIIuHG7u/GAhheztR4Ca9mejFSZ6TJqs1KtjBeVQ8pztwWQcg6YwdV0u07jAoIU9a71F+bQqYF6/9TE1zl7vIKQhx46lK3uZSuxgkGt0C08dP0kezpqvKXvWlLt5wTIgpue6d4CESrJArYUIeXr1 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Aug 2013 22:34:30 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 18:34:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Kevin Lahey" In-Reply-To: <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:34:54 -0000 > OTOH, I could imagine that getting a SIM in, say, Orlando, might've been a bit more complex. Well, getting anything in Orlando is a pain. There's an Airport Wireless store in the airport which may have SIMs, and a couple of Cellphone Outlet stores, one a mile north of the Caribe, one a mile south. Perhaps we should have a new criterion that venues should be within walking distance of a phone store, as well as restaurants, grocery stores with everything-free food, and so forth. Unhelpfully, John From kreeger@cisco.com Fri Aug 16 15:35:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F020D21F85B3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:35:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HfNfwtNHsXG6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D8311E81B7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:35:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=432; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376692500; x=1377902100; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=9xmCUrUIgCb+tysVsPXtt7OL3KXqsv1jEhZbpqWaLQ8=; b=IRxxFc9tUtaR9A4gBJ1JIdFl6h0bJn91OCU6QRR6IylQ3yq5tTqX0n+k 65spShpD1KeurxR5+mqCGSQfN0/hOjs0DhmAcyi7ScAeM5+QC6COhM6Du qiJbMqWEzBqZ6XKv39UF0qQ4W8KnNfhS824QZY0jtsQ9E9SxsnMgcncVP A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AucFAKyoDlKtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABbgwY1UYJTvE+BKRZ0giYBBDpRAQgiFEIlAgQBEgiICLk+kB84gxt3A5kRkCiBYYE7gio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,898,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="248363976" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Aug 2013 22:35:00 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com [173.36.12.86]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GMZ0TT004635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:35:00 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.107]) by xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com ([173.36.12.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:34:59 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" , "'87 attendees'" <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOmplzS26rGDKpakChHdFTtHaEFpmYSu+A Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:34:59 +0000 Message-ID: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B57F4E@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 x-originating-ip: [10.155.164.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:35:06 -0000 Yeah On 8/16/13 8:57 AM, "Dave Crocker" wrote: >So here's a simple proposal that I will ask the rest of you to express >support for: > > The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at >future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally >competitive costs and services. > > >Yeah or nay? > >d/ > >-- >Dave Crocker >Brandenburg InternetWorking >bbiw.net >_ From rcitterio@gmail.com Fri Aug 16 15:37:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83CA21F89A5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:37:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ji+9lICA5cfL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22e.google.com (mail-ie0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD5521F8904 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id w15so4337361iea.19 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:37:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=kUXHoClftaaNjvcSKZ6uRo6yjVSNvm0175PI+tSRy9I=; b=Ei2sOcMFgG0IOIeEE6qibhiOqFnaKdK05RWuYyOjcOTLvWz5EiOdlhyvhZATbIiskX aM1ZZZVGW/BgiQhw4WBeY1d2+vVwZK3CaiX6A7/NO1QHyZyJCh3s9e+6iLk2M60PzzgN ES77+cL9pj2ZptKVNt9bzBByw/jrcBrzY+inUvE3eNb81xLF2FDq11hsI+tHV0FCbsPC GTFOrG+nqm8ZbDVX31hgZTYvuzccOPKkI8LQwH4dic5d9qt3cz+wIfK90UYPwGom6AFF Yj7ew0iUmtZ17KmGakJh6+QEjwo9MN4RqPbDHHISClzBdxCYW8QyQaHgmaWqlk+uPuCX j5KQ== X-Received: by 10.50.61.179 with SMTP id q19mr730067igr.33.1376692639575; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:37:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.158.73 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:36:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> From: Raitme Citterio Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:06:49 -0430 Message-ID: To: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc109ebf49c804e4183b34 Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:37:20 -0000 --047d7bdc109ebf49c804e4183b34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 good idea for next ietf Raitme Citterio 2013/8/16 John R Levine > OTOH, I could imagine that getting a SIM in, say, Orlando, might've been >> a bit more complex. >> > > Well, getting anything in Orlando is a pain. There's an Airport Wireless > store in the airport which may have SIMs, and a couple of Cellphone Outlet > stores, one a mile north of the Caribe, one a mile south. > > Perhaps we should have a new criterion that venues should be within > walking distance of a phone store, as well as restaurants, grocery stores > with everything-free food, and so forth. > > Unhelpfully, > John > > ______________________________**_________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/87attendees > --047d7bdc109ebf49c804e4183b34 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
good idea for next ietf

Raitme Citterio


2013/8/16 John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com<= /a>>
OTOH, I could imagine that getting a SIM in, say, Orlando, might've bee= n a bit more complex.

Well, getting anything in Orlando is a pain. =A0There's an Airport Wire= less store in the airport which may have SIMs, and a couple of Cellphone Ou= tlet stores, one a mile north of the Caribe, one a mile south.

Perhaps we should have a new criterion that venues should be within walking= distance of a phone store, as well as restaurants, grocery stores with eve= rything-free food, and so forth.

Unhelpfully,
John

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--047d7bdc109ebf49c804e4183b34-- From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 15:45:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D3F11E81DF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qXlxRtxw-X7M for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F6E11E81A7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 86240 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2013 22:45:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=150de.520eab6c.k1308; bh=R0sNjTI5de3sbaKSAmGTGysm8v7E8nfsGL/GxAlZIp4=; b=Mbgifcm2tNxUGiEZDJ9jeOjvUUKOL8k/crOUl1CaMwVv0SStm6KVtG78w3WFNEGH9yqZTHJeiDaX402YmDJB/4By8PQWi9DiKWManAvzJxDNWvfe4S+8CBCTtHgZZOqlI6uwpGRejNOsvhy0Y8b74ffi+GW/4JD4WS37AZSXv2VTBCkgYyKp7acOvb7pgA/Ky9JwcsNU15OsUdC4fFfSWmihdMgyYK5JqO9LLOYIgDc+JbedhVG4y6+I0QdCzuwQ DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=150de.520eab6c.k1308; bh=R0sNjTI5de3sbaKSAmGTGysm8v7E8nfsGL/GxAlZIp4=; b=U7/pbMGvbT0n5ULsXdXRXTa4zPzu9AxAMdGuQ+IknndEzofZGVoMq5Se3MLG8V4N9FszOMsyxUohaOCguMV11ZiNVsneBgc0lUAgTIe6AF4gJurRkfxRbBr0comJeK6Q7SAdkYdWDFAxxpzN148SolaAMlhln0WeT6Yem26fBjOi1MhVMtGCFXtgWFudb0/dlvVu6KxCLdrCPEacGASN5oC+IGWzZLBBk2977rez9F4kdWurj6Krz8U5mnnDDBiZ Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Aug 2013 22:44:38 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 18:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "87 attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 22:45:02 -0000 There's a Tbooth wireless store at 1024 Robson St, roughly halfway between the Hyatt and the Sheraton. They have products from a variety of carriers, see http://www.tboothwireless.ca/ There's also a Rogers dealer at 595 Burrard St, about 1/2 block north of the Hyatt. Rogers is the dominant GSM carrier in Canada. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From kreeger@cisco.com Fri Aug 16 16:07:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C82611E81B2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xgir2z5QrkYj for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BE111E8150 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:06:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1060; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376694416; x=1377904016; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Awohnn1Ler+yp5kU01iufdCOoYj9zNvj8n3dYcXHeN0=; b=PAIPtQVzGfAppAfG8tkezxpdvnTBIQVZ+hm4Q8JHzo/KpxulLRR0I75u HsBL1le9TVPSVjSJe6Rrd7KGJYvvsEDD/G4f/Ie7LDmxy68BowRyrJXjO sf/VASVJzSc67sFmooA/TlPSj9w8EbLLlpSTDpRK4pUqpjHqpfLKoBzjm U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgQFACuwDlKtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABbgwY1Ub8igSkWdIImAQQBAQE3LAEHHQEIIhQ3CyUCBAESCIgIDLkwkB84gxt3A6k5gxyCKg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,898,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="248156555" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Aug 2013 23:06:54 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com [173.36.12.80]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7GN6snQ014480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 23:06:54 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.107]) by xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com ([173.36.12.80]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:06:53 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: John R Levine , 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver Thread-Index: AQHOmtJH7nlNgrJNa0+VfCgOreqs45mYU2UA Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 23:06:53 +0000 Message-ID: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B581E0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 x-originating-ip: [10.155.164.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3051DD81B6A3044287CE6672226B60CC@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 23:07:01 -0000 Last time in Vancouver, I picked up a Fido SIM card at Pepper Wireless in the Royal Centre which is right next door to the Hyatt. You can get there without getting wet (assuming it will be raining in November). I think I had to buy the SIM for $10 and then add another $10 in credits to buy data access. I have no idea if this is a good deal or not. - Larry On 8/16/13 3:45 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >There's a Tbooth wireless store at 1024 Robson St, roughly halfway >between=20 >the Hyatt and the Sheraton. They have products from a variety of >carriers, see http://www.tboothwireless.ca/ > >There's also a Rogers dealer at 595 Burrard St, about 1/2 block north of >the Hyatt. Rogers is the dominant GSM carrier in Canada. > >Regards, >John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY >"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. >_______________________________________________ >87attendees mailing list >87attendees@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From johnl@taugh.com Fri Aug 16 17:19:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D680F11E8176 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gZttpCeDrszi for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BF811E80D7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 62846 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2013 00:19:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=f57c.520ec194.k1308; bh=rUlVsUe+4kcgyc60pM4FgQGPNqq5mlvkZKXVM6r+/MI=; b=WCUmJeq0uDERytNdnRgNxh4TIPRJxgubg+8P7rQPGzEOWzUSacMRuwtu89UJJh5NlouFdo0wAcrv469yRgkTjrDhHGCiZmef5VrzU0VtaTZ9y+ftAJ4QLVMDJ/TnxlbD9KhB8KFLm54iYILxkUjUBuVWlrTkUJcJ2v+JnBKWuBr3i6R/HwbedYtAL9X6z9B9aBxVUoay5DRZMTKjsv6z8NgIJLssiSvBnunRHM4zsZevELlnEhZRGMIdYix7/78Q DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=f57c.520ec194.k1308; bh=rUlVsUe+4kcgyc60pM4FgQGPNqq5mlvkZKXVM6r+/MI=; b=n0vloeeONCGAfKixVj82ZB5kcmTm2IBVN5pUiuXYNpwhtCs2fKJimMkbHpt8lltYCaSUJxNLblv/Whh0ySXkYmEpLFbjSm55Ar8sMCz6SCDUuxcJSRceNqethGwHhJt+MWYBSe1X+txLeRkChrIFits9/5OBg4Jm1pv+exkzZ4Oo7GdzZ7KhBu2v3wRXjB58oGbKkWQ67kTORgWL3H+Jbm1S49fOpGCEtwkeR1PDV3gfTo+pnQkn8XfSWIm90X8b Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 17 Aug 2013 00:19:10 -0000 Date: 16 Aug 2013 20:19:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" In-Reply-To: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B581E0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> References: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B581E0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:19:34 -0000 > Last time in Vancouver, I picked up a Fido SIM card at Pepper Wireless in > the Royal Centre which is right next door to the Hyatt. You can get there > without getting wet (assuming it will be raining in November). I think I > had to buy the SIM for $10 and then add another $10 in credits to buy data > access. I have no idea if this is a good deal or not. Canadian mobile service is fairly expensive, so that's a good deal, particularly if the $10 was enough to last all week. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From sanjay.mishra@verizon.com Fri Aug 16 17:21:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0E821F9F8F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DBfWwDDAOWWn for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com (omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com [199.249.25.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A29E21F9FA7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:21:06 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi01.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.143]) by omzsmtpe02.verizonbusiness.com with ESMTP; 17 Aug 2013 00:21:05 +0000 From: "Mishra, Sanjay" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,898,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="538395530" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb02.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB02.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.189]) by fldsmtpi01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 17 Aug 2013 00:21:05 +0000 Received: from fhdp1lumxc7v23.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.159]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB02.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.189]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 20:21:05 -0400 To: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" , John R Levine , 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 20:21:04 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver Thread-Index: AQHOmtJH7nlNgrJNa0+VfCgOreqs45mYU2UAgAA2JeA= Message-ID: <900A1E2059ADB149B905E3C8FA0046A62C7958E7DB@FHDP1LUMXC7V23.us.one.verizon.com> References: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B581E0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B581E0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:21:11 -0000 I guess good or bad depends on what was your usage experience? Thanks Sanjay -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Larry Kreeger (kreeger) Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 7:07 PM To: John R Levine; 87 attendees Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver Last time in Vancouver, I picked up a Fido SIM card at Pepper Wireless in t= he Royal Centre which is right next door to the Hyatt. You can get there w= ithout getting wet (assuming it will be raining in November). I think I ha= d to buy the SIM for $10 and then add another $10 in credits to buy data ac= cess. I have no idea if this is a good deal or not. - Larry On 8/16/13 3:45 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >There's a Tbooth wireless store at 1024 Robson St, roughly halfway=20 >between the Hyatt and the Sheraton. They have products from a variety=20 >of carriers, see http://www.tboothwireless.ca/ > >There's also a Rogers dealer at 595 Burrard St, about 1/2 block north=20 >of the Hyatt. Rogers is the dominant GSM carrier in Canada. > >Regards, >John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I=20 >dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. >_______________________________________________ >87attendees mailing list >87attendees@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From kreeger@cisco.com Fri Aug 16 17:58:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949BD11E816E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:58:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OI+de62YrCmq for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE7411E8155 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:58:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=956; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376701081; x=1377910681; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=N8gSF31uthO08MCqxrskJhPUN2sTItI4a7Vo4blDlHM=; b=OZ2c/dxas60Ytptt0QPE4RI3vO/ciykfDVtplR7kpsFGwJoEyjSTKW11 ly+ne6rJdXO7J1ZQRQBdPhqMTiaDdMZoi43IktjMtLgvQZvbfW0/UZ1hO u8bLR2tSj17byj8myJXyq1Dyd0tI+ggnk5GPDe7lYxg/OrKUmp4l8I02Z s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AucFACzKDlKtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABbgwaBBoJTvE+BKRZ0giQBAQEDATosExIBCCIUQiUCBA4FCIgCBrkrkB8xB4MbdwOpOYMcgio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,898,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="248177022" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Aug 2013 00:57:58 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7H0vvBm029380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:57:57 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.107]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:57:57 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver Thread-Index: AQHOmtJH7nlNgrJNa0+VfCgOreqs45mYU2UAgACJqwD//5VagA== Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:57:57 +0000 Message-ID: <8DC803725FAC314598698A65AFEAC38A46B58952@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.6.130613 x-originating-ip: [10.155.164.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIMs in Vancouver X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:58:06 -0000 Data on Fido is $1 for 10MB (24 hour expiration) or $5 for 60MB (7 day expiration). This was enough for me (it helps if you cache your google maps in offline mode first). It was the best deal I saw at the time, but times change! :-) On 8/16/13 5:19 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> Last time in Vancouver, I picked up a Fido SIM card at Pepper Wireless >>in >> the Royal Centre which is right next door to the Hyatt. You can get >>there >> without getting wet (assuming it will be raining in November). I think >>I >> had to buy the SIM for $10 and then add another $10 in credits to buy >>data >> access. I have no idea if this is a good deal or not. > >Canadian mobile service is fairly expensive, so that's a good deal, >particularly if the $10 was enough to last all week. > >Regards, >John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY >"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 16 18:07:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A502911E81BF for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ephAoIT-GJLX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25ED711E81BB for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VAUzZ-0007tN-O6; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:07:46 +0000 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:07:44 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Kevin Lahey In-Reply-To: <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <520E6A56.1080701@lacnic.net> <507F85C5-740F-46A5-842F-FA068D30D617@oracle.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:07:47 -0000 > I had no problem getting a SIM good for 500MB/month for =E2=82=AC10 at a = shop > down the street from my hotel. The guy at the counter was happy to > speak English (rather than suffering with my college German), and was > super-helpful. the stores will also perform the arcane activation rituals for you, which is exceedingly helpful. in berlin, i thought sim and top-up stores were scarce until i realized that every tabac and newsstand did it. contest for the day: in what venues might there _not_ be stores within a short walk? [ and don't try the poorer economies. there the stores are even more plentiful and will even unlock your iphone for you. ] the ietf - where we build mountains. out of molehills. randy From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Fri Aug 16 18:44:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5832711E81DD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CNMweXf2UdnC for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9999B11E81C5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg7VjZtLQFwGh46t0Cmg7a836Saf0vQU@postini.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:45 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB551B82B3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D5F319005D; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:44 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOmrfQZ6IibIGWM0SC0L8je51ZDpmZFpoA Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:44:43 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:44:56 -0000 On Aug 16, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > the ietf has not been very successful fishing in these waters. i think > the closest we came was maastricht, and it was not worth the vendor's > effort. This didn't happen in Maastricht, or if it did, it was very poorly publiciz= ed. I hunted for days for a SIM card in Maastricht, and wound up buying s= everal before I found one that actually worked. If IETF had offered SIM c= ards, I would not have had to waste time on this. Actually, the only time I've had an easy time getting a reasonably-priced S= IM card was in Taipei, because they sold them at the airport. The thing t= hat would help me the most would be for ISOC to scout out a few really good= places for newcomers to get SIM cards, and post directions to the wiki. From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 16 19:11:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4928711E81E0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OfVmfdUZVMhw for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6179F11E81B0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VAVzJ-000800-Du; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 02:11:33 +0000 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:32 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 02:11:37 -0000 > I hunted for days for a SIM card in Maastricht, and wound up buying > several before I found one that actually worked. If IETF had offered > SIM cards, I would not have had to waste time on this. indeed, when getting your badge, the secretariat could have given you a sim card that did not work. i have a stash with which they could start their collection. please do not tempt someone such as joel to dump on us about sims, phones, bands, ... and, in my small experience, the states and canada are among the toughest and most expensive locales. > The thing that would help me the most would be for ISOC to scout out a > few really good places for newcomers to get SIM cards, and post > directions to the wiki. i doubt isoc, iaoc, iab, ... are the best sources for this. the locals and frequent visitors are. and they usually do so on the meeting wiki. if the 88 wiki was up we could put in the clues some folk have already given to a number of local shops in van. i suspect the phone/phone's-country/locking/carrier/bands/... vs local products compatibility chart is a major research issue, and one that i would not want to suggest anyone explore. my small experience is that, if my phone is unlocked, the clerk at the local shop, newstand, or airport shop (more expensive) will know best, and you will be able to test right there after asking them to 'activate' the sim. and, in many countries, be sure to have your passport with you. the state likes to link the sim (and imei) to your identity so they and nsa can be sure the world is safe. "the enemy has always been eastasia." randy, ressurecting the nsa troll line -- terror bomb wiretap spying 8.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.6.0.0.8.8.1.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa :) From oej@edvina.net Sat Aug 17 01:42:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B75C21F9C8E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:42:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.435, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H+g8qXkWWSTh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E0521F9B01 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.40.30] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id DC9D093C1AF; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:42:45 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:42:45 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> To: Spencer Dawkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Derek Atkins , "Olle E. Johansson" , Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:42:52 -0000 16 aug 2013 kl. 18:19 skrev Spencer Dawkins = : > On 8/16/2013 9:31 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: >> On Fri, 2013-08-16 at 07:28 -0700, Keith Moore wrote: >>> On 08/15/2013 10:05 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>>> We've asked about this before, but it hasn't got traction. It = would probably turn into the new thing to complain about, so I'm not = really surprised nobody's jumped on it. >>> Since people are going to complain anyway, and offer solutions to >>> problems that they don't understand, maybe we should nominate two or >>> three "things to complain about" in advance of each IETF meeting. >>>=20 >>> For Vancouver in November, I think we should complain about the lack = of >>> air conditioning. >> That's sort of like complaining about Atlanta's lack of snow removal >> equipment in the summer (or the winter)... >=20 > Yeah, but the problem with waiting until we arrive onsite to decide = what to complain about is that we're not really prepared, and railing on = multiple topics lowers the quality of the complaints about all of the = topics we're complaining about. >=20 > If we all decide now to complain about the same thing in Vancouver in = November, we'll have *months* for people to compose rants. >=20 > Probably even as haikus. And then the IETF can sell the collection as = poetry, and use the proceeds for the benefit of London participants = (whether local or remote). T-shirts and stickers too. Don't forget the merchandise oppurtunity if = we can agree in time. /O= From hermin.anggawijaya@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 03:01:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0D621F9BD1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ts3yqc0XMBDp for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22d.google.com (mail-ve0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B6D21F8DDD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f173.google.com with SMTP id cy12so1928421veb.18 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=URl7ZH/+CuKtDIIVEZlxnV/sgmgo9pCwglcnixy1o1U=; b=mUutzKn3KSHgJ95YfTMDeflejAAneCBLExW5yHqgCbqBp/iqx0orB0ylTbG8y5KJKL kIzQaVTJKO6R6X3CgWrSHgFXzXmPCamTpX/RZA2VF7wW5OmyYcpEQSHaMC/Ua9pr8QG5 wLxaDr2tY10vphb+WHFUSsk3esp7F4jVM3BwXy3mWV7MXd6lJAR9UtWVH59Qq0JsZdcI 66D/9wue8aDNgBh1nYGGJPnBl5uGDnCRBSN5S9yq9usZf94K4kqebEWJ8F43DkPV5d+B LymWx44z+kMYY74jEtI8vg+D+9QXBbG5D+KLs0u/ktEWLxafZkseynCppdSvhuSPxoiY Ma8w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.100.234 with SMTP id fb10mr2426873veb.5.1376733663906; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.249.7 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 03:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 22:01:03 +1200 Message-ID: From: Hermin Anggawijaya To: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a2746fcd1dc04e421c862 Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:01:07 -0000 --089e013a2746fcd1dc04e421c862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On slightly different topic, I know that meeting dates have been decided far in advance (last time I looked, even 2022 meeting dates had been decided, but not all target locations have), but I thought that it would be nice if meeting dates do not coincide with 'peak' holiday season in the meeting location. For Berlin meeting, I had to pay US$3000 for the flight from Oceania (reg price, around $1800-2100), it's peak season airfare. Some would say, it's my own fault for living in the far corner of the earth....but just a thought.... Regards Hermin --089e013a2746fcd1dc04e421c862 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On slightly different topic, I know that meeting= dates have been decided far in advance (last time I looked, even 2022 meet= ing dates had been decided, but not all target locations have), but I thoug= ht that it would be nice if meeting dates do not coincide with 'peak= 9; holiday season in the meeting location. For Berlin meeting, I had to pay= US$3000 for the flight from Oceania (reg price, around $1800-2100), it'= ;s peak season airfare. Some would say, it's my own fault for living in= the far corner of the earth....but just a thought....

Regards

Hermin




--089e013a2746fcd1dc04e421c862-- From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 04:33:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CD211E80C5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.475 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.475 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fhQpOREcHqT4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x236.google.com (mail-ie0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FF121F8DA3 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id tp5so5017586ieb.27 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MMrbNfQAHp5n0i7Z1pK6Uss5g3bKQ+7r9tq7eNsUf4o=; b=f4TtUam/pCTaR0ujcsU3uuWuasRhB1hGk2wK8u5jiCd4zB+3GKac+/qjA1gAGn8D9C 0cWjAVfHecibd+S/FkuatmAuBbdsFNM276NwZePgDyhZ03RvNy9BEQCUf7wDOCD4RYj2 ag5nwNjtq17fW2w0asEMwiBtiL7eZhVqO1DI8JK7FpGEQMnRTyWIwL7Jm6htRBmhKqMO b6aILCnuET6d+yz13yKPgDfUNIoAuAs1rq+O+VOs1dvltCBFkH8N8x98DRi6hnBWrdKE 9mKNLA3843Y/OKXlHkT5iCg3XGfC64trgTHjfCUp/7+tJqvv9Y75FsWKDCri8cnuJ5IZ MWUw== X-Received: by 10.50.36.100 with SMTP id p4mr1125031igj.30.1376739234766; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (68-240-38-176.pools.spcsdns.net. [68.240.38.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id jg5sm2602299igb.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520F5F9F.8070108@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:33:51 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Olle E. Johansson" References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:33:55 -0000 On 8/17/2013 3:42 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > 16 aug 2013 kl. 18:19 skrev Spencer Dawkins : > >> If we all decide now to complain about the same thing in Vancouver in November, we'll have *months* for people to compose rants. >> >> Probably even as haikus. And then the IETF can sell the collection as poetry, and use the proceeds for the benefit of London participants (whether local or remote). > T-shirts and stickers too. Don't forget the merchandise oppurtunity if we can agree in time. I had forgotten completely! If this keeps up, ISOC will be able to pay all of us to attend as Cost of Goods Sold :-) And all we have to do is agree on something by a specific date. Oh, wait ... Spencer From scott.brim@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 04:42:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E88311E8103 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.892 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.892 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.708, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qzezAs8waRZR for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x233.google.com (mail-oa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D4311E8100 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id h1so3395724oag.10 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=v74jDNCPvmu8/rxlu4UkpWC61bIXMgI74ASKCOyvNxY=; b=RPm6jf+GefaKqRnwiwiaOKrsDN3Hi8+82Ax2tb9g/mXvYsrtXsabWlz2VQeXidIJpa 4HzFUURHeM9ZqrCmwbzlQKwh1QGcCKeogQE9x6IuSkWaksl19H7CFCjc5Mc7PAbhQ0mh kyOGRPPAj5E+vjSe8xDloWcfgpqvaLIjBvR9HB83cJKXuRbWV9tO13ckXuXgaruqjtdC WTUCljtwGMqf1eSDtcPUavBLQy0Ziz3YAaTrNj6K9PLQ5raTnLu7/n1uyykgHjbNKhO6 nUI7YRC/t/LzP5kk0rtWW7PiwIn/a2Va0yBxzEcCRlpCeOIGWcl8tRM1R0BKly6bfxGE 1IXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.51.7 with SMTP id g7mr1529739oeo.6.1376739760182; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.44.105 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 04:42:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <520E56D6.60506@att.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> <520E56D6.60506@att.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:42:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: Scott Brim To: Tony Hansen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c308e05a9c0a04e423349e Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:42:41 -0000 --001a11c308e05a9c0a04e423349e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Could we possibly have a "problems" mailing list separate from the "attendees" mailing list? --001a11c308e05a9c0a04e423349e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could we possibly have a "problems" mailing list separate from th= e "attendees" mailing list? =A0 --001a11c308e05a9c0a04e423349e-- From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 05:02:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35B311E80F6 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.103, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9LIUgWy968sa for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278A711E80F1 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id y13so3221649pdi.5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1loNEbEhRVpUs8ZS7gNCqrAbK8nXcYfLUw9/PincW04=; b=BFpaQiPs0YMvj0htl2/PhTld2690pmnRv0Qn88DdnOFEe15b8guKqsumc6OxtqkRTf Pu0n4UWpmsxAPHI7LjMUE46VTEs6j78QU0DOpOMixjUB0Uohmn1+8Cm+BCsgQ1XCmVKs CU8aEWdHUjK/0hg80fF/S6ymnoGyWiB0yPKgAdaNLrcGuiEpgTEDdac9jJLDpJsy5ZMc I0ZoJK3dHJw/syI8xVRTYeesrlubNKSEzGqI4ceM/13lx1rbb9/nHP25Y5dwJR+bqYtX FUdo9EksQQW0g/pze7XzGkmcdnn4iDTOqYfeJfWN5JZUdNE9AnqeIfDI5qrQCA+fhPcr 7k9A== X-Received: by 10.68.240.72 with SMTP id vy8mr1034101pbc.161.1376740931877; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (68-240-38-176.pools.spcsdns.net. [68.240.38.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a5sm3346291pbw.4.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:02:07 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:02:13 -0000 On 8/16/2013 9:11 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > if the 88 wiki was up we could put in the clues some folk have already > given to a number of local shops in van. This is actually a really good suggestion. I am remembering that Ole had quite an elaborate guide to Hiroshima for IETF participants on a website weeks before IETF 76 - http://www.yikes.com/~ole/store/Hiroshima/Essentials.html . I also remember reading how to find the closest 7-11 to the train station, get cash from the ATM there, and even which flight of stairs to walk up, to get to my hotel. People did amazing work (sample page - http://www.ietf76.jp/access/). I THINK this might have been before we had meeting wikis (at least a meeting wiki doesn't show up on the frozen IETF 76 meeting page), but if we had the IETF 88 wiki up now, perhaps we could end up with an equally fabulous guide before we get on planes/trains/whatever ... Spencer From moore@network-heretics.com Sat Aug 17 05:41:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD28921F8235 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKFR2HnUC+hd for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A74B11E8103 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 05:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B3A20FAA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:41:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=6VOejfErRpH2wt2/o9s+Ky pslhc=; b=uDgxMSJufB08X2YQX1Cjmk2Ia3Bw+o4XtQiF40zXCik2vEUK9Pv5q6 l5d86csN/BX4DqVpZufI1+cIiNKHsA38LqcNvaCzyEs/XHlBSJMuR5miET6tv9Q3 wXNuqOivQ6TgwFgQw6CTzCZ2wlkf6+SQvQqkxQgQOvsYxTh8sXRt8= X-Sasl-enc: S0xQMNCl4x289eE4EoR0z6d7WhA4SvXvPLyywm8cZKH1 1376743312 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (unknown [65.16.145.177]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BA4776800B9; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <520F6F87.70808@network-heretics.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:41:43 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:41:58 -0000 On 08/17/2013 08:02 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >> if the 88 wiki was up we could put in the clues some folk have already >> given to a number of local shops in van. > > This is actually a really good suggestion. +1 From emcmurry@computer.org Sat Aug 17 06:47:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C0411E80F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:47:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z3VheB5G+v-f for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-03-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A367511E810A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-76-184-161-215.tx.res.rr.com ([76.184.161.215] helo=antikythera.casamcmurry.com) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1VAgqO-000Osa-U2; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:47:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antikythera.casamcmurry.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8A511D943E; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:47:03 -0500 (CDT) X-Mail-Handler: Dyn Standard SMTP by Dyn X-Originating-IP: 76.184.161.215 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/sendlabs/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX1+/5qJf/e5UHm1cifm2Pte1ugGgZoawS3c= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at casamcmurry.com Received: from antikythera.casamcmurry.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (antikythera.casamcmurry.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7shxYjWli3KT; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:47:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericlaptop.casamcmurry.com (ericlaptop.casamcmurry.com [192.168.111.91]) by antikythera.casamcmurry.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91C4611D9436; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:47:03 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Eric McMurry In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:47:02 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E3724.50001@network-heretics.com> <1376663508.20179.34.camel@localhost> <520E5106.1000902@gmail.com> <520E56D6.60506@att.com> To: Scott Brim X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tony Hansen Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:47:11 -0000 so, I sign up for the attendees list when I'm an attendee, and I sign up = for the problems list when I'm a .... On Aug 17, 2013, at 6:42 , Scott Brim wrote: > Could we possibly have a "problems" mailing list separate from the = "attendees" mailing list? = _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From weiler+ietf@watson.org Sat Aug 17 06:54:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E94F21F9C6B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:54:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pC2OSN2oLG7H for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [198.74.231.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5383921F9BBD for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 06:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66C5246B20; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (weiler@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7HDsMVp020591; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:54:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7HDsLPC020585; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:54:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:54:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Samuel Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@fledge.watson.org To: Jakob Heitz In-Reply-To: <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> Message-ID: References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info>, <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com>, <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:22 +0100 (BST) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:54:29 -0000 On Thu, 15 Aug 2013, Jakob Heitz wrote: > If a booked person doesn't show, let the hotel charge that person a > cancellation fee to cover revenue lost due to empty rooms. Different attendees have different takes on this. Personally, I prefer generous cancel terms, and I will happily accept the risk of being walked (and getting a free room) as the cost of that. I have also deliberately avoiding booking at the meeting rate when cancel terms were too nasty. I think there is merit in Andrew Sullivan's suggestion of letting us self-select: have the secretariat collect, as part of registration, a one-bit preference for "happiness to be given a free room at another hotel" and provide that list to the hotel(s) if needed. -- Sam From randy@psg.com Sat Aug 17 07:10:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048A821F8EC3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:10:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.527 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.527 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.072, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtvexLqhvZix for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A977421F8E1F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 07:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VAhCn-0000T2-15; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:10:13 +0000 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:10:11 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Spencer Dawkins In-Reply-To: <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:10:23 -0000 >> if the 88 wiki was up we could put in the clues some folk have already >> given to a number of local shops in van. > This is actually a really good suggestion. i also acted, though in a bad hack way http://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/ietf88 > I am remembering that Ole had quite an elaborate guide to Hiroshima having done similar things in other contexts, i know how much work goes into it. and it must be done by someone who knows the locale well, you can't just send out an explorer randy From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 09:59:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FAE411E81F8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ggT854aHkhwh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x22a.google.com (mail-vb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B26611E8227 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id e12so2409401vbg.29 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QXQyiw18eQCBUA8wZT21lsnKCj/gXBC39WDLNnWdA6A=; b=X+fUru0IQs72N2vVoHNiJg4OCDhwXvPuGMPLvrJoMpfmvFLQxZu/TCxK3Ik860aX58 PmQtj9Pu8dpqvtnga8jDVnl1QQJBcDF43Vh78TblE0CFB7FholBr60IDKE7epjGOrQ4+ p7QcWfpIt2VZZ6sX+Mzk3puaWEbp2rVG1AmQMVnq4c3SwJEM830KTpNAmEuP52BVzfKO KCSP8838bd1Tp4hVUpRAF4byO306MOdXsnCNq3opiUK2CD/chnd3kUWryQLIl4lcxAI7 8VJyUXh4OacvCFJ6lhXEhCLFiXjeJ3fwlV5jPuXfDyHiEJ/koCmJHDgd4bnbBgXnaiAx LQHw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.145.132 with SMTP id d4mr7198899vcv.9.1376758787898; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:59:47 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Hermin Anggawijaya Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b34347c7e835704e427a226 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:59:50 -0000 --047d7b34347c7e835704e427a226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I totally agree with this concern and it's been mentioned before, but I don't believe it's become a factor in choosing meeting locations. That's why I'm very happy that we're going to Vancouver in late fall. I spent more to fly to Vancouver last summer than it cost for me to fly to the Beijing Meeting. In my experience (I live in major airline hub city), airfares during peak times are at least 30% higher than off peak. My guess is the fact that nice cities at nice times of year increases attendance may be one of the reasons it's not being considered as a factor. On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Hermin Anggawijaya < hermin.anggawijaya@gmail.com> wrote: > On slightly different topic, I know that meeting dates have been decided > far in advance (last time I looked, even 2022 meeting dates had been > decided, but not all target locations have), but I thought that it would be > nice if meeting dates do not coincide with 'peak' holiday season in the > meeting location. For Berlin meeting, I had to pay US$3000 for the flight > from Oceania (reg price, around $1800-2100), it's peak season airfare. Some > would say, it's my own fault for living in the far corner of the > earth....but just a thought.... > > Regards > > Hermin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --047d7b34347c7e835704e427a226 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I totally agree with this concern and it's been mentio= ned before, but I don't believe it's become a factor in choosing me= eting locations. =A0That's why I'm very happy that we're going = to Vancouver in late fall. =A0I spent more to fly to Vancouver last summer = than it cost for me to fly to the Beijing Meeting. =A0In my experience =A0(= I live in major airline hub city), airfares during peak times are at least = 30% higher than off peak. =A0 My guess is the fact that nice cities at nice= times of year increases attendance may be one of the reasons it's not = being considered as a factor.=A0


On Sat, Aug 1= 7, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Hermin Anggawijaya <hermin.anggawijaya@gmai= l.com> wrote:
On slightly diffe= rent topic, I know that meeting dates have been decided far in advance (las= t time I looked, even 2022 meeting dates had been decided, but not all targ= et locations have), but I thought that it would be nice if meeting dates do= not coincide with 'peak' holiday season in the meeting location. F= or Berlin meeting, I had to pay US$3000 for the flight from Oceania (reg pr= ice, around $1800-2100), it's peak season airfare. Some would say, it&#= 39;s my own fault for living in the far corner of the earth....but just a t= hought....

Regards

Hermin
<= div>





_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees
=

--047d7b34347c7e835704e427a226-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Sat Aug 17 10:27:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9B711E81EB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.576 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.023, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k1DBgTW8hmkT for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3003511E81D0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7HHRfsx023170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:44 -0700 Message-ID: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:20 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Barnes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 17:27:51 -0000 On 8/17/2013 9:59 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I totally agree with this concern and it's been mentioned before, but I > don't believe it's become a factor in choosing meeting locations. It isn't. In fact, the tourism appeal of a venue is often considered as a benefit, since some attendees have voiced a desire to bring family and a better tourism venue facilitates that. (This, of course, nicely confounds criteria for selecting a meeting, rather than simply optimizing for meeting effectiveness and convenience.) ... >airfares during peak times are at least 30% higher than off > peak. My guess is the fact that nice cities at nice times of year > increases attendance may be one of the reasons it's not being considered > as a factor. > > On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Hermin Anggawijaya > > wrote: ... > I thought > that it would be nice if meeting dates do not coincide with 'peak' > holiday season in the meeting location. +1 On the other hand, the premium price means we also get to wrestle with masses of tourists and I'm sure we all enjoy that. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Sat Aug 17 11:08:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D380E11E8237 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:08:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uXN8P1C2WMLh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a90.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcahe.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91A711E8231 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a90.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a90.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FADC2AC064 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=JDbfdNHB+JYFUgtr35C3BvO8YK++BjAo89lspGPOSir8/ZwjVWAinQD21zNo okpv9pmcK93Q66idExPWkyhluAR4lZOioucOxX77ED9Q2cpLukC7W6/bXocfEKUy 6JglY1pQPdl2PoueTBq+b2Uh0z4qhr8x7nIPTT58zIJg+vM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=0aO2W62XrxBc9QWs2jYEdv/M38A=; b=cYAktU9DIWwXP wRWeVUej7THEoIGYgQozh2gyCmeqfvl5YhTh9S/2A4WVF6uIkPQ6la49m9RyOaA5 AkzPk3pdlM8jBUMyIivOeIGknBDUXA0+x4/Y0RMFdV4UrO5M6sr+WwK7Vlw0WfZW 29AoOP8XS8yHFzOyQ9EmP3Y8Ofqaz0= Received: from spandex.local (66-230-112-160-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [66.230.112.160]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a90.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 335702AC05D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520FBC19.10705@nomountain.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:08:25 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:08:37 -0000 On 8/17/13 8:59 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I totally agree with this concern and it's been mentioned before, but > I don't believe it's become a factor in choosing meeting locations. > That's why I'm very happy that we're going to Vancouver in late > fall. I spent more to fly to Vancouver last summer than it cost for > me to fly to the Beijing Meeting. In my experience (I live in major > airline hub city), airfares during peak times are at least 30% higher > than off peak. Ask me about flying in and out of Alaska in July. It just comes with the territory, and we live with it. It strikes me as worthwhile, though, to make an effort to avoid peak travel times at holiday destinations. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Sat Aug 17 11:11:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82AC11E823B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yRAGlz5oG4Kp for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcagg.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3DC21F8AD5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613CD428075 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=QsDpDFV5GRz+dUdhHNRMKEfAYJ1zvK5zaYPzZ7Vgtk9B06MKuqForaNpIXq/ agqhEPw8RBmy+MT/Seyp+h+J+fZp13OhsJAcfmqIc9xatEbIRi48NHYwWhOXWdzh kBL3r2QLwXxWfiqAU9ypnbQJj1X7g4zc45kLH0IjP8IoWcE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=gqG1KF8VbEG0qmuMZXS2og27Zuc=; b=mI0qOeKtDh+3+ 1DNma6epm6GhwMYH4bk7oUS/cGN+33lhweq9kMo5IYsiVgM3UXmK4d0ZDPPw8GjH TlKRR4iZQ7H3Vl9Drptkfh0Q7oNl4gADg1FaWX+CBdqPBmBlkZfOUEjq9tqc0LfA hRK/huTGW8UJPLgLGkrmpl9I1Zzgnc= Received: from spandex.local (66-230-112-160-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [66.230.112.160]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16233428072 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:11:40 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87attendees@ietf.org References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:11:47 -0000 On 8/17/13 9:27 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > In fact, the tourism appeal of a venue is often considered as a benefit, > since some attendees have voiced a desire to bring family and a better > tourism venue facilitates that. I consider it a negative, since it has a negative impact on travel and distracts from the meeting. It's a working meeting, people. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 17 11:14:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9CB11E823A for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tN1smljCY7yV for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og101.obsmtp.com (exprod7og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.155]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFB511E823C for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg+9hvfhFOgMhCWJ1YfSnmgXxU2/0IX9@postini.com; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:30 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457961B8244 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 901F019005D; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:14:23 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Mary Barnes Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmzCuzJeY/++0aEaqtFKDs/PWW5maFVKAgAAU2QA= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:14:22 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259CBA@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <789DEF06A52387418BE52A130E07BFEF@nominum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Hermin Anggawijaya Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:14:37 -0000 On Aug 17, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I totally agree with this concern and it's been mentioned before, but I d= on't believe it's become a factor in choosing meeting locations. That's wh= y I'm very happy that we're going to Vancouver in late fall. I spent more = to fly to Vancouver last summer than it cost for me to fly to the Beijing M= eeting. In my experience (I live in major airline hub city), airfares dur= ing peak times are at least 30% higher than off peak. My guess is the fac= t that nice cities at nice times of year increases attendance may be one of= the reasons it's not being considered as a factor.=20 That explains the crappy connection I was able to get, and the high price a= s well. FWIW, I already booked my Vancouver tickets for this fall, and I decided to= travel through Seattle rather than Vancouver, because connections to Vanco= uver aren't as good. Seattle has light rail to the airport (like Vancouve= r) and there's Amtrak service from Seattle to Vancouver. The flight to Sea= ttle was way cheap (that's why I just bought it instead of waiting). The = added bonus is that I take the train back to Seattle Friday afternoon, and = then I can take an earlier nonstop from Seattle back to Boston on Saturday. I don't know how this will turn out in practice, so I'm not _recommending_ = it to other IETFers, but if you're feeling adventurous, it's something to c= onsider. It probably doesn't make sense for you if you can't get a nonsto= p to/from Seattle. One thing I did to be on the safe side is that I allow= ed for a rather long layover in Seattle, which I will spend being a tourist= if the connection works out well. (Beware: there is a Vancouver, Washington, and it's on the same Amtrak line= as Vancouver, BC. Don't accidentally book a train going the wrong direct= ion!) From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 11:18:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B8721F8F63 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id omxYEnY1TzMX for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x229.google.com (mail-vc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2697F11E823B for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id ib11so2210446vcb.14 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=W6Fzqaw/f0wZy3fO8VPMq+GJR/2SJyaRRpCQBeGiKKk=; b=TYu6tqXA+c3jm+JYQm7G73tn7j+nr3dS64rPK+m3X8U9qV1BYBi89P2AA+PgCAsrVA ciOAOubDn8I+B2SE1zRld4Du7CcXnZCntXWifmS1J/qDT2Tm53NstBgcmMJQgzNaCXkP W6naPHHDmrBg1ukqyV+mRWEPiQ8MRU9NTbJMTfUktchxrULss663QBOZ4YiJIJY0RNmC sDo/CAbALZm+HbxZlAyjW/sTtAIEi1jYHwvV238CoHaIQCq59dz5n7tak/LHGpD8pmty mSkQ+Ej+M8BzxV9A3rMbCx1fAmvEySHLPWwKvf2NfJYBlDmeMDqmgM3aBQGHgVZRZxH8 Ov5Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.180.229 with SMTP id dr5mr3490887vdc.20.1376763523449; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:18:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Bob Hinden Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51969cfc14b7504e428bc13 Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:18:46 -0000 --bcaec51969cfc14b7504e428bc13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > Keith, > > On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Keith Moore > wrote: > > > On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > > > >> The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at future > IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally competitive costs > and services. > > > > I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to demand > more and more free services from event organizers. > > > > That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards > easily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language > support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A > pointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be > sufficient. > > Good points. > > Personally, I doubt the economics would make selling SIMs on site > worthwhile for an SIM vendor. What percentage of attendees would do buy a > SIM (requires an unlocked phone, motivation, etc.)? Would that generate > enough revenue for the seller to have someone on site for a day or two? > [MB] We don't have answers to these questions because we haven't tried it. It would seem to be something easy to try in Vancouver since apparently there are several shops nearby. Asking one or two of those vendors to send someone to spend Sunday afternoon and Monday maybe wouldn't seem to be too much of a burden for them and if they aren't getting decent business, they can just leave. /MB] > > If the IAOC took this on, it would map into asking the Secretariat to > organize this, which would map into increased costs for all of us. > [MB] So I guess your response is that this isn't something the IAOC is willing to consider despite the fact that there were several +1s that it might be helpful? I agree 100% that the secretariat already does a lot of work at IETF meetings. And, we have continued to add to that burden over the years with newcomer's meet 'n greet, Bits 'n bytes, etc. So, it would be good I think to evaluate the pros and cons before totally dismissing this suggestion. Much in the same way that Bits 'n Bytes was started as a trial as it was deemed something that might benefit the community, I would think trying out this idea for one or two meetings is not unreasonable. [/MB] > > I think would be better to collect information on where to buy a SIM on > the meeting Wiki. We clearly have some experts on this topic in the IETF. > [MB] That information would be helpful. Some of the concerns raised, however, were around cases where the IETF attendees did not speak the local language While the usual response is that many people in European cities, for example, speak English, not all IETF participants have English as a first language. So, while knowing where the shop is can be helpful, it doesn't solve the problem of being able to communicate what one wants and needs, and getting a fair price. Also, my understanding was the folks that would benefit the most were those that weren't staying at the main IETF hotels with a high quality Internet connection. We all know that there are a lot of crappy hotel networks out there and that a good network is imperative for all of us in getting our work done. So, making it a little easier for folks to get these SIM cards would seem to be a good thing to me and not an unreasonable service to ask the IAOC to work with the secretariat in obtaining. The other option of course would be for the "experts on this topic" to be willing to go with the folks that are not experts and that don't speak the local language to assist them in their purchase. [/MB] > > Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --bcaec51969cfc14b7504e428bc13 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Bob Hinden <= bob.hinden@gmail.= com> wrote:
Keith,

On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:

> On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote:
>
>> =A0 The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at= future IETF meetings. =A0The card choices should represent locally competi= tive costs and services.
>
> I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to de= mand more and more free services from event organizers.=A0
>
> That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards ea= sily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language suppor= t. =A0It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. =A0A p= ointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be suff= icient.

Good points.

Personally, I doubt the economics would make selling SIMs on site worthwhil= e for an SIM vendor. =A0What percentage of attendees would do buy a SIM (re= quires an unlocked phone, motivation, etc.)? =A0 Would that generate enough= revenue for the seller to have someone on site for a day or two?
[MB] We don't have answers to these questions because= we haven't tried it. =A0It would seem to be something easy to try in V= ancouver since apparently there are several shops nearby. Asking one or two= of those vendors to send someone to spend Sunday afternoon and Monday mayb= e wouldn't seem to be too much of a burden for them and if they aren= 9;t getting decent business, they can just leave. /MB]=A0

If the IAOC took this on, it would map into asking the Secretariat to organ= ize this, which would map into increased costs for all of us.
[MB] So I guess your response is that this isn't something the = IAOC is willing to consider despite the fact that there were several +1s th= at it might be helpful? I agree 100% that the secretariat already does a lo= t of work at IETF meetings. =A0 And, we have continued to add to that burde= n over the years with newcomer's meet 'n greet, Bits 'n bytes, = etc. =A0So, it would be good I think to evaluate the pros and cons before t= otally dismissing this suggestion. =A0Much in the same way that Bits 'n= Bytes was started as a trial as it was deemed something that might benefit= the community, I would think trying out this idea for one or two meetings = is not unreasonable. [/MB]

I think would be better to collect information on where to buy a SIM on the= meeting Wiki. =A0 We clearly have some experts on this topic in the IETF.<= br>
[MB] That information would be helpful. =A0Some of the= concerns raised, however, were around cases where the IETF attendees did n= ot speak the local language While the usual response is that many people in= European cities, for example, speak English, not all IETF participants hav= e English as a first language. =A0 So, while knowing where the shop is can = be helpful, it doesn't solve the problem of being able to communicate w= hat one wants and needs, and getting a fair price. =A0 Also, my understandi= ng was the folks that would benefit the most were those that weren't st= aying at the main IETF hotels with a high quality Internet connection. =A0W= e all know that there are a lot of crappy hotel networks out there and that= a good network is imperative for all of us in getting our work done. So, m= aking it a little easier for folks to get these SIM cards would seem to be = a good thing to me and not an unreasonable service to ask the IAOC to work = with the secretariat in obtaining. =A0 The other option of course would be = for the "experts on this topic" to be willing to go with the folk= s that are not experts and that don't speak the local language to assis= t them in their purchase. =A0 =A0[/MB]

Bob





_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--bcaec51969cfc14b7504e428bc13-- From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 17 11:22:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0B611E8163 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XLTlUuyk270y for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og106.obsmtp.com (exprod7og106.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A46F21F9D21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob106.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg+/ZqZmQVnZEK2jIYwanZSNlUui3XLF@postini.com; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:30 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE151B8257 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E65C019005D; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:22:30 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Melinda Shore Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmzCuzJeY/++0aEaqtFKDs/PWW5maFVKAgAAHswCAAAxjAIAAAwiA Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:22:28 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <7E95F9DDF885CF419E34DB650A777917@nominum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:22:49 -0000 On Aug 17, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Melinda Shore w= rote: > I consider it a negative, since it has a negative impact on > travel and distracts from the meeting. It's a working meeting, > people. Yes and no. Yes, it's a negative for IETF to be a junket, because that be= comes an attractive nuisance=97people go because they want to go to the cit= y IETF will be held in, rather than because they really have pressing busin= ess at IETF. No, it's not a negative, because cities that are good touris= t destinations are often (not always, cf. Orlando) good places to have meet= ings, because there is a variety of food near the venue. I always thought Minneapolis in winter was a good choice=97it's a lovely ci= ty, but not really a winter city, so you get convenient food _and_ nobody g= oes just for the fun of it. From lberger@labn.net Sat Aug 17 11:34:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4F021F8F32 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:34:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xXoKTnJu7A6J for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (oproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.54.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C0EC11E81EA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26018 invoked by uid 0); 17 Aug 2013 18:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy6.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2013 18:34:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:To:From; bh=n2bv2bNf2fiRUMt3E4oGmcKcLk01tv7hWBf4IExxm+A=; b=LKYmjWSE5IXPvmQj5uEyYy2+VHsv7Awams4eKh2tQoeenuAjFnumco/9iDm3wkw+wMySuwyVuuWFoxU/J2zzRwusMqHQ1aV1WFRYhKXx4PU/waX+1VyFGxkBVytu1aBm; Received: from [70.198.192.25] (port=9979 helo=[10.172.26.104]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VAlK5-0000O8-Tr; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:34:13 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Melinda Shore , <87attendees@ietf.org> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:34:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1408d8e0048.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 AquaMail/1.2.4.0 (build: 2100294) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 70.198.192.25 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:34:40 -0000 100% agree. On August 17, 2013 2:11:40 PM Melinda Shore wrote: > On 8/17/13 9:27 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > > In fact, the tourism appeal of a venue is often considered as a benefit, > > since some attendees have voiced a desire to bring family and a better > > tourism venue facilitates that. > I consider it a negative, since it has a negative impact on > travel and distracts from the meeting. It's a working meeting, > people. > > Melinda > > -- > Melinda Shore > No Mountain Software > melinda.shore@nomountain.net > > "Software longa, hardware brevis." > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 12:04:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510BC11E81E9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EmuX6nwTXVVh for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x236.google.com (mail-vb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921A621F9B12 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id q14so2454290vbe.27 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cUk0wcmJavLO53ypjjMH2CNF3uIAJFets2kkVBUuSi8=; b=pgT/ztjFYmKiGaqJ0EM2wiuPSYCRlFNigeTXCPlT1VvHP9FdJt6oH9DVI7ZLXwr8ee d0lssHjQ2bhe2cJiTcGUgf5Nz16+pvaXuTKu1Zz3gO5Mk5FHnWuo1Np9YUQmyizOsR5h zi16o8Anrwz4V29HyUmTYVcqVVDb+3xp6xlX6LckHRO0ksWzach9F/p3rTF2sNlCwV8F t7LJPAgwt5NaJjA5HNgons9gJZwE/7i4uF+M4di+XqpIikNIflcgSZvZi4FIHUs0u6eN KMc9VGKTngodkGpsovQPEzgby2w1hVZtXrKQ9gncGDuv9Xa3jvgjN7iUi+so1X82p2iR OR+w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.51.206 with SMTP id vj14mr4356707vcb.17.1376766270089; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.74.97 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:04:29 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Ted Lemon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133225277af0804e429608f Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:04:31 -0000 --001a1133225277af0804e429608f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Aug 17, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Melinda Shore > wrote: > > I consider it a negative, since it has a negative impact on > > travel and distracts from the meeting. It's a working meeting, > > people. > > Yes and no. Yes, it's a negative for IETF to be a junket, because that > becomes an attractive nuisance=97people go because they want to go to the > city IETF will be held in, rather than because they really have pressing > business at IETF. No, it's not a negative, because cities that are good > tourist destinations are often (not always, cf. Orlando) good places to > have meetings, because there is a variety of food near the venue. > [MB] Right the tourist places do have many of the resources we need and they are much more affordable IF we go off season. Orlando never has an off season and the IETF meeting was scheduled during one of the BUSIEST weeks of the year. It was a bad idea for so, so many reasons - the food issue alone (given that it was arranged after Dublin) should have been enough to discount that location. > > I always thought Minneapolis in winter was a good choice=97it's a lovely > city, but not really a winter city, so you get convenient food _and_ nobo= dy > goes just for the fun of it. > [MB] I agree 100%. Minneapolis meets all of our needs in terms of an effective and efficient place to get work done. [/MB] > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --001a1133225277af0804e429608f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon= @nominum.com> wrote:
On Aug 17, 2013, at 2:11 P= M, Melinda Shore <melind= a.shore@nomountain.net> wrote:
> I consider it a negative, since it has a negative impact on
> travel and distracts from the meeting. =A0It's a working meeting,<= br> > people.

Yes and no. =A0 Yes, it's a negative for IETF to be a junket, bec= ause that becomes an attractive nuisance=97people go because they want to g= o to the city IETF will be held in, rather than because they really have pr= essing business at IETF. =A0 No, it's not a negative, because cities th= at are good tourist destinations are often (not always, cf. Orlando) good p= laces to have meetings, because there is a variety of food near the venue.<= br>
[MB] Right the tourist places do have many of the resourc= es we need and they are much more affordable IF we go off season. =A0Orland= o never has an off season and the IETF meeting was scheduled during one of = the BUSIEST weeks of the year. =A0It was a bad idea for so, so many reasons= - the food issue alone (given that it was arranged after Dublin) should ha= ve been enough to discount that location. =A0

I always thought Minneapolis in winter was a good choice=97it's a lovel= y city, but not really a winter city, so you get convenient food _and_ nobo= dy goes just for the fun of it.
[MB] I agree 100%. =A0= Minneapolis meets all of our needs in terms of an effective and efficient p= lace to get work done. =A0[/MB]=A0

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--001a1133225277af0804e429608f-- From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Aug 17 13:29:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1C711E8162 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.743, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_AFFORDABLE=1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m924WSxC8n3x for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f177.google.com (mail-pd0-f177.google.com [209.85.192.177]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E359511E8129 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id y10so3483281pdj.36 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qamCXENpenftIb2O3gsRRUVMTeNvrNNAdPaMRHWYbD0=; b=eUoBB82xeJ3Da/t4BBRjfmI/eFSzYp8ql9kAyiQ47XFQZO+1ZcwnkGrwaohraaj4iz ZzScVwroJcNKyAAjki79CHzhkPU54PSLfhQ2UHTuFvj8t17Cv35Gcp+360rMomBcBhDo xxB65PQJRudri56B9JHLFJz5kTPfu8HGFG0FQexwtNxwP4EHmSiNfkXhzSgUjflhfRT/ I61xNMq7+pMcEN3zHrqceTaxbCWw3Dx1/z+CyARR5QvsHg8fRwsObBbh0hdUnwIfrgIt +JqTI7dtV887lrxNWAMW+0GTB9mgURPX0shzvVm5Yjdp9tRCoMxSUxJGS/cBr8zu7XzO bZMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmsOcmO6QJSrXpd5MZRY4srwgKduBxPU7IuoWJc6oYWP7V0U5Ha6UK80kBW6PBqMIofuEKW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.131.168 with SMTP id on8mr4531612pbb.97.1376771359539; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.41.162 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:29:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Mary Barnes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:29:26 -0000 .... > [MB] Right the tourist places do have many of the resources we need and they > are much more affordable IF we go off season. Orlando never has an off > season and the IETF meeting was scheduled during one of the BUSIEST weeks of > the year. .... +1 to your +1 I thought I was the only one who thought when the Orlando announcement came out "Oh great. I get to go to Orlando during Spring Break." Andy From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 17 13:40:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9295F21F92B8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34HNs+4Ad7hO for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E0B21F8A53 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUg/fxhcTn2fQbLbshFlFhCLJoSGN6j8B@postini.com; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:39 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17BB1B823F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-02.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 647C819005D; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-02.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.132]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:24 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Andy Bierman Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmzCuzJeY/++0aEaqtFKDs/PWW5maFVKAgAAHswCAAAxjAIAAAwiAgAALuYCAABe0gIAAAxsA Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:40:24 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:40:46 -0000 On Aug 17, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > I thought I was the only one who thought when the Orlando announcement > came out "Oh great. I get to go to Orlando during Spring Break." For me, it was just "oh no, not again!" FWIW, Orlando seemed to have improved since the previous time we went there= , but it was still not a good choice, and I hope we can make it a point nev= er to go there again. From dhc@dcrocker.net Sat Aug 17 13:59:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB92111E8167 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJMXCJEP7Nz1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41CE11E80F5 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7HKxPbv026111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:28 -0700 Message-ID: <520FE418.7040101@dcrocker.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:04 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Lemon References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:59:34 -0000 On 8/17/2013 1:40 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > I hope we can make it a point never to go there again. Might be worth trying to get some current community consensus on preferences for where to go and when, and where to always) avoid. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From ole@cisco.com Sat Aug 17 14:54:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCD011E820B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DsQe5QQaAcED for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA1D11E824A for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=453; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376776457; x=1377986057; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=0RHrUG3YM1ipIRpcs1tiWx+9kMmRpN3ie+42rct35B4=; b=fpxgnqKEqiM/scG1C0eIUDFWp1o4hpiBJAA/tlPiqXdvVV5OAsRJzwJO C0D8TQihHzVKIDRHvI6liV/FE7s6eN7DqBoxosUDbLQ74BPNBe/S+/++Z QfE+MeicSa8nuFmgkv7cjyuHU+PreD+SFBQv3ErTsRCeZwPlLu2yx7wbB k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Am4FAOnvD1KrRDoH/2dsb2JhbABbgwasTpNlgSEWdIIkAQEBAwE6PwULC0ZXBogdBbctkGAHhBIDiS2UYIssgzwc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,903,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="86843683" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Aug 2013 21:54:16 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7HLsF0n008605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:54:15 GMT Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Message-ID: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:54:25 -0000 On Sat, 17 Aug 2013, Ted Lemon wrote: > For me, it was just "oh no, not again!" > > FWIW, Orlando seemed to have improved since the previous time we > went there, but it was still not a good choice, and I hope we can > make it a point never to go there again. > Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to co-locate (IESG wish). Ole From randy@psg.com Sat Aug 17 17:43:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8FE11E81A9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 17:43:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bRQxO0rkJiP2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 17:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81EF11E818E for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 17:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VAr4u-0001oG-LT; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 00:42:44 +0000 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:42:43 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259CBA@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259CBA@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 00:43:00 -0000 > I decided to travel through Seattle rather than Vancouver, because > connections to Vancouver aren't as good. Seattle has light rail to > the airport (like Vancouver) and there's Amtrak service from Seattle > to Vancouver. https://www.boltbus.com/ From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sat Aug 17 19:50:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C3511E81C5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uNVE67aBv0DB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og117.obsmtp.com (exprod7og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833FF11E81BF for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob117.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUhA2iZPV1kzfc2hvsoiZjrlgUvj3tOAg@postini.com; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:50 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F541B8290 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C48819005D; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:50:47 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Ole Jacobsen Thread-Topic: Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOm5RSPue9sOvL7k6T4ozViBSh2pmaua4A Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:50:46 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 02:50:57 -0000 On Aug 17, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by=20 > another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to > co-locate (IESG wish). Was the previous visit to Orlando also at the behest of the IEEE? From ole@cisco.com Sat Aug 17 20:06:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BE211E81DA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQG22Km-xsUo for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4792211E81B7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:06:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=625; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376795181; x=1378004781; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=oH5T2fNqZ9/Vvk89IJUCi8srkUWvKUlf/yHJnKMD1Ho=; b=mVFKaudoi47WHbzzXyDOf+YF8sMnBWWbuVqo3cp4jZwcM/IJmCs/RMN3 ZTsZqhRucLn7/ZcTs+oz04WJ+1i9VjBwCC7qVrLoSEO2q+Sgi22LetdXD zG7RElqiY6VkdEJ7RjHoS3XUrCwHWe56JkMQjvyU1v+xiZbmu9YmG+wjr E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtsFAOM5EFKrRDoG/2dsb2JhbABYA4MGNYMkqHSTZYEfFnSCJAEBAQMBOj8FCwsYLlcGE4gKBbZbjyOBLRAHEYQBA4ktlGCGB4UlgzwcgTU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,905,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="86130027" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Aug 2013 03:06:11 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7I36AiD027389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 18 Aug 2013 03:06:10 GMT Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:06:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Message-ID: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 03:06:36 -0000 No, but it was a LONG time ago. Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo On Sat, 17 Aug 2013, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Aug 17, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by > > another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to > > co-locate (IESG wish). > > Was the previous visit to Orlando also at the behest of the IEEE? > > From johnl@taugh.com Sat Aug 17 20:48:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B1911E81E1 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7NZFMDwbkYy for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECC711E80E9 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13838 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2013 03:48:26 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=360b.5210440a.k1308; bh=x4vVi0tFAs/tVr/jYelaJkReG3M9bforn2LB1GkKcfU=; b=pX+K5Jiyrjnne5UC2p3S1s0U4yQRR88k0yBNVHq8zDcfSv6kPCGb58MB0x65gmqxz4X7v+TW6H/kY9ikXSvZ6QyD6AxHKDiuBJ/8hTLsgEv8wzcLO08M0nraNB+dojpS6pCe458DJMluhgnRVfQkNEjHFJngaoJsJbUEkJETNu2coGWNh0bp/97LznWRZI4YbJgJV8xyLuh0bG2qBGpwyS4XmaL3qiWe3kNqULqYdn4rQ3LfVkEKi6blTuTL8idw DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=360b.5210440a.k1308; bh=x4vVi0tFAs/tVr/jYelaJkReG3M9bforn2LB1GkKcfU=; b=RHTEj1eRKT7SrYIlBCtrjdUnjN4VIjku0tMes4XL0mpYN9JCwz9+Z9G8ZFiJieHTU+PYMPFN4rStwjM6J7oaf52yaywWk4nKgZutTI4wIMH1uaN0G8ByLtEtF8MfR2/JP/0/Wttk5BIkFamJvJyY6vS6JX2UDFvNGOXdzkOWW2uq2NjdNNAxJzSEsG5FLnPkCA+RI6T+pck7IJJtPzLj209V3FF125kMISM80YQHGxuU84LoIzrdiO0jkRtAqlSY Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 18 Aug 2013 03:48:04 -0000 Date: 17 Aug 2013 23:48:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 03:48:29 -0000 >> Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by >> another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to >> co-locate (IESG wish). There's nothing wrong with co-locating, so long as it's in a place where we would otherwise be willing to go. If some future meeting of the IEEE were in Vancouver or Berlin, in one of the hotels we've used, I expect we wouldn't see many objections to co-lo. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 21:10:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2943B11E81F5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wRgXP6zdCF6B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com (mail-ie0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D0F21F90A7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f181.google.com with SMTP id x14so5308816ief.26 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S8EoDFkN0ZmtN6K0W7rNnHm0D4XTHy17otknxXbBM6g=; b=Btpt+3HorfXAps/LiBYJpYtradzg44JtZfD+OMLzSys5ofDgLILPGr8uvZ/z5b7ljr 1nmaYgLnKF/zv57zaQG72Qu3/EHdO+tXplw/ijF+tg65rLUhpceVPJt73GJHrydYOMyG X2V97qM5Qmz+CoqcKRqF2CVwnNXWFpj3/JQsvKrR24mL1tNAqE+cGOiG9N6eEj+gSu3W yHOR+9k9xicVr5KGX5dgufRWRiO4cGjCjABjLkhySi643Va+qwZyzo7Uvt/XVjgykxtd pVdnjWGsuOdOZjt2ku2YdWgo5ahHRPO2x4N11npRTKzJqUbeKnaH+D6YJuU4vC5i5PQk UMew== X-Received: by 10.42.30.200 with SMTP id w8mr2176257icc.24.1376799053236; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (70-3-16-11.pools.spcsdns.net. [70.3.16.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p10sm7741808igx.4.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52104948.4020705@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:10:48 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John R Levine References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 04:10:54 -0000 On 8/17/2013 10:48 PM, John R Levine wrote: >>> Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by >>> another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to >>> co-locate (IESG wish). > > There's nothing wrong with co-locating, so long as it's in a place > where we would otherwise be willing to go. > > If some future meeting of the IEEE were in Vancouver or Berlin, in one > of the hotels we've used, I expect we wouldn't see many objections to > co-lo. We co-lo-ed (!) in Vancouver for IETF 64 in 2005. I stayed for IEEE 802.1 meetings the following week. It can be done. Spencer From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Aug 18 05:13:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AC511E80FB for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqRlrbFET8aS for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C0111E80E4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7ICDJ6V001135 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:13:19 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7ICDJ6V001135 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1376828000; bh=lPFYNrfSAdxjcC68FKcGW7ijN8s=; h=From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=s9CDXaY019PqMiLiU/xcNjUKbAKv+2DEAnbewaN2O8u96UPHCT9zrvkV5O7yREFav QrXSdZzaMcecX00Hid67icCaJjh4vyhHIhK4+jFf+9HU3j4km7raGx2L/XeAWFlqZv KugjcVQZFTcf8PSq5pdFGnHuI65JAqmfBU0WIviA= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7HDDJ0544545954ZA ret-id none; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:13:19 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7ICDFj6007938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:13:15 +0100 From: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FD11BA2B-9DC1-426A-BFB3-9C44AC3E40B2" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:13:21 +0100 References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7HDDJ054454595400; tid=p7HDDJ0544545954ZA; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7ICDJ6V001135 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:13:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FD11BA2B-9DC1-426A-BFB3-9C44AC3E40B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 17 Aug 2013, at 20:04, Mary Barnes wrote: > On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Ted Lemon = wrote: >=20 > I always thought Minneapolis in winter was a good choice=97it's a = lovely city, but not really a winter city, so you get convenient food = _and_ nobody goes just for the fun of it. > [MB] I agree 100%. Minneapolis meets all of our needs in terms of an = effective and efficient place to get work done. [/MB]=20 Minneapolis was a great venue. Is there a particular reason it's dropped = off the meeting schedule? Tim --Apple-Mail=_FD11BA2B-9DC1-426A-BFB3-9C44AC3E40B2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> = wrote:

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Ted = Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> wrote:

I always thought Minneapolis in winter was a good choice=97it's a lovely = city, but not really a winter city, so you get convenient food _and_ = nobody goes just for the fun of it.
[MB] I agree = 100%.  Minneapolis meets all of our needs in terms of an effective = and efficient place to get work done. =  [/MB] 

Minne= apolis was a great venue. Is there a particular reason it's dropped off = the meeting = schedule?

Tim

= --Apple-Mail=_FD11BA2B-9DC1-426A-BFB3-9C44AC3E40B2-- From davieseb@scss.tcd.ie Sun Aug 18 05:14:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9201811E8100 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:14:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hu1lBTaH3+N9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AD811E80E4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43274BE39; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:14:41 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zn0VL6l-Pu9L; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:14:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from [81.187.254.250] (mightyatom.folly.org.uk [81.187.254.250]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 280EDBE33; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:14:40 +0100 (IST) From: Elwyn Davies To: Ole Jacobsen In-Reply-To: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: School of Computer Science and Statistics, TCD Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:11:06 +0100 Message-Id: <1376827866.4512.7758.camel@mightyatom> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "<87attendees@ietf.org>" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore , Mary Barnes , Ted Lemon , Andy Bierman Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:14:51 -0000 On Sat, 2013-08-17 at 20:06 -0700, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > No, but it was a LONG time ago. But never forgotten! The only positive about this location was a fortuitous trip to Cape Canaveral on December 11 that happened to coincide with the launch of the Mars Climate Orbiter - now only remembered for the metric-imperial units screw-up that led to its loss during Mars orbital insertion. Who needs standards? Apalling hotel, Disney social, lack of nearby eateries (was it Charlie's Steakhouse?) all put me off going again - I didn't. /Elwyn > > Ole > > > Ole J. Jacobsen > Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal > Cisco Systems > Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 > E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj > Skype: organdemo > > > On Sat, 17 Aug 2013, Ted Lemon wrote: > > > On Aug 17, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > > Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided by > > > another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to > > > co-locate (IESG wish). > > > > Was the previous visit to Orlando also at the behest of the IEEE? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Sun Aug 18 05:16:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9805011E80E4 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:16:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTQ+OQq0Kiqf for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BD211E8100 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7ICFxH7002139 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:15:59 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r7ICFxH7002139 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1376828160; bh=oQDerrtEwImDGJntPock7VBZrX8=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=TCB1Xp4XLE/OHz0ACIAFI8vTkXRxJdGa5HYcFJ/gbcJPjaYuQg9LOj1GzxiW3aW+m gdSWhYWMlnSR9KtB6kVTRSix15TAvvy/uR/AI23SfBF4Dwp4R/nnPCWuFUA8cev7f0 Pje6Ia/T2x4tjaYH8j3P6PPtbgf0LW4RvyOWaxDU= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p7HDFx0544545964hX ret-id none; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:15:59 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.110] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7ICEeOC008085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:14:41 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:14:46 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259F95@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A187@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <4084BF32-B1F9-413A-A0F2-0244D731C814@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p7HDFx054454596400; tid=p7HDFx0544545964hX; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r7ICFxH7002139 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [87attendees] Orlando (was IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:16:04 -0000 On 18 Aug 2013, at 04:48, "John R Levine" wrote: >>> Or perhaps make it a point to not have the meeting location decided = by >>> another organization, in this case the IEEE, with which we wanted to >>> co-locate (IESG wish). >=20 > There's nothing wrong with co-locating, so long as it's in a place = where we would otherwise be willing to go. >=20 > If some future meeting of the IEEE were in Vancouver or Berlin, in one = of the hotels we've used, I expect we wouldn't see many objections to = co-lo. I agree. Hopefully the lesson has been learnt from Orlando. Tim From hadriel.kaplan@oracle.com Sun Aug 18 05:45:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0CB111E8101 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:45:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.454 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.454 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZeWhN1g55lSk for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101AF11E80F6 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7ICig6h027669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:44:43 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7ICifIl012457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:44:42 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7ICifTD019946; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:44:41 GMT Received: from [192.168.2.19] (/184.61.127.93) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 05:44:40 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Hadriel Kaplan In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:44:36 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> To: Tim Chown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 12:45:13 -0000 On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > Minneapolis was a great venue. Is there a particular reason it's = dropped off the meeting schedule? I don't know the official reason, but IIRC the attendance rates for = Minneapolis were always lower than the meeting before and after. It's = hard to argue with actual numbers. It could be that other factors = contributed to that, but I doubt it. -hadriel From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Sun Aug 18 06:20:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BBC11E810F for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6q7jbrVtNNI for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og127.obsmtp.com (exprod7og127.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413E811E8103 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob127.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUhDKElYREI0Sx3yB3rLiQ5rL5vDZfxa6@postini.com; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:19 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848DB1B82B7 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 333C419005D; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:20:17 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Hadriel Kaplan Thread-Topic: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review Thread-Index: AQHOmzCuzJeY/++0aEaqtFKDs/PWW5maFVKAgAAHswCAAAxjAIAAAwiAgAALuYCAAR93gIAACLsAgAAJ/AA= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:20:16 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B63077525A6DA@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.1.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 13:20:26 -0000 On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Hadriel Kaplan wro= te: > I don't know the official reason, but IIRC the attendance rates for Minne= apolis were always lower than the meeting before and after. It's hard to a= rgue with actual numbers. It could be that other factors contributed to th= at, but I doubt it. Right, that was by design, at least as I understood it. From bob.hinden@gmail.com Sun Aug 18 08:33:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF38D11E8114 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K-CeowfjfmcI for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x234.google.com (mail-wg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FD611E80FA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b13so2803035wgh.19 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=GGuF0XwQw54vW0Ld5f4L528MMKOyCkvPuJVrFjuAmmM=; b=iSKiMhfq3M9jkL85x8moOmPrIH8lH3Zy45PMlaDzTlKfKbp2qY1wFWXjSVifjSh0l7 KTGzMmmtUBALzcyn4kwZM/RW8u8P58c4GVeW7PP2sg7vq3vCnKfFHPOs6ZZ1w+11gRSW Dpz9lz9zrqL/VFL9NJJvs2yDSbw+qYVUKRKO5KfsLs4k+2+b69TAQqF31mymc23umuje jYLrvCluYfwQhI63X7gOBljv952trhmWiSH944OTQt/Z/qAzMsNpnjss+AwWcYaQKwTW W91kLH+M7HhAig8/mQodEyYL9NFvjsg0UVw2137MwPOMYVQ7bQ0Y+o/zZply49o2dlvB 1zrw== X-Received: by 10.180.77.163 with SMTP id t3mr4951136wiw.24.1376840007064; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:9:4080:10:d14b:f648:fc78:e882? ([2601:9:4080:10:d14b:f648:fc78:e882]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id eb3sm10407239wic.10.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:33:19 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00B98F07-7FA2-49C3-A749-C3A2C2CC847F@gmail.com> References: <9D5C64C2-1187-42A7-B237-8AAEC4810D57@isoc.org> <20130814153327.GK3865@mx1.yitter.info> <60958B6B-A77C-4A83-A5CD-336432DBA8D7@ericsson.com> <1DE0D0DF-A90C-4B27-804D-FEBA8098BCD4@ericsson.com> <8C48B86A895913448548E6D15DA7553B998F05@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <192EBF07-33F4-48DC-A78D-6F2551FD6E36@network-heretics.com> <520D2B80.4060508@computer.org> <520D39DA.2020301@lacnic.net> <8C3F6CE1-DA90-475B-974D-6B21BE56B099@nominum.com> <520E4C01.1040102@dcrocker.net> <8E44B8F6-F4A6-4943-8BDA-4389D15FE770@network-heretics.com> <4A31E60F-A04B-4FAA-8E20-F7D7714E1357@gmail.com> To: Mary Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: 87 attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden , Keith Moore Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:33:29 -0000 Mary, Just to be clear, I was speaking for myself ("Personally"). I was not = speaking for the IAOC. Bob On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Mary Barnes = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Bob Hinden = wrote: > Keith, >=20 > On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Keith Moore = wrote: >=20 > > On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > > > >> The IAOC should pursue having a local SIM card rental booth at = future IETF meetings. The card choices should represent locally = competitive costs and services. > > > > I never cease to be amazed at IETF participants' willingness to = demand more and more free services from event organizers.=20 > > > > That said, I would certainly find it useful to have cheap SIM cards = easily available, but probably only if accompanied by English language = support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the conference site. A = pointer to a nearby store or one at the local airport would probably be = sufficient. >=20 > Good points. >=20 > Personally, I doubt the economics would make selling SIMs on site = worthwhile for an SIM vendor. What percentage of attendees would do buy = a SIM (requires an unlocked phone, motivation, etc.)? Would that = generate enough revenue for the seller to have someone on site for a day = or two? > [MB] We don't have answers to these questions because we haven't tried = it. It would seem to be something easy to try in Vancouver since = apparently there are several shops nearby. Asking one or two of those = vendors to send someone to spend Sunday afternoon and Monday maybe = wouldn't seem to be too much of a burden for them and if they aren't = getting decent business, they can just leave. /MB]=20 >=20 > If the IAOC took this on, it would map into asking the Secretariat to = organize this, which would map into increased costs for all of us. > [MB] So I guess your response is that this isn't something the IAOC is = willing to consider despite the fact that there were several +1s that it = might be helpful? I agree 100% that the secretariat already does a lot = of work at IETF meetings. And, we have continued to add to that burden = over the years with newcomer's meet 'n greet, Bits 'n bytes, etc. So, = it would be good I think to evaluate the pros and cons before totally = dismissing this suggestion. Much in the same way that Bits 'n Bytes was = started as a trial as it was deemed something that might benefit the = community, I would think trying out this idea for one or two meetings is = not unreasonable. [/MB] >=20 > I think would be better to collect information on where to buy a SIM = on the meeting Wiki. We clearly have some experts on this topic in the = IETF. > [MB] That information would be helpful. Some of the concerns raised, = however, were around cases where the IETF attendees did not speak the = local language While the usual response is that many people in European = cities, for example, speak English, not all IETF participants have = English as a first language. So, while knowing where the shop is can = be helpful, it doesn't solve the problem of being able to communicate = what one wants and needs, and getting a fair price. Also, my = understanding was the folks that would benefit the most were those that = weren't staying at the main IETF hotels with a high quality Internet = connection. We all know that there are a lot of crappy hotel networks = out there and that a good network is imperative for all of us in getting = our work done. So, making it a little easier for folks to get these SIM = cards would seem to be a good thing to me and not an unreasonable = service to ask the IAOC to work with the secretariat in obtaining. The = other option of course would be for the "experts on this topic" to be = willing to go with the folks that are not experts and that don't speak = the local language to assist them in their purchase. [/MB] >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees >=20 From wesley.george@twcable.com Mon Aug 19 13:48:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F6C11E8300 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.13 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.13 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Df6nsNMS1Q8r for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4167A21F9AD8 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:47:49 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.10 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,914,1367985600"; d="scan'208";a="123873439" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.10]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Aug 2013 16:47:05 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.78]) by PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.10]) with mapi; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:47:20 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Spencer Dawkins , Randy Bush Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:47:26 -0400 Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: Ac6bQbJ532TpfKieSXmGDtCOZAojygB2wKEg Message-ID: <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:48:03 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] > > I am remembering that Ole had quite an elaborate guide to Hiroshima for > IETF participants on a website weeks before IETF 76 - > http://www.yikes.com/~ole/store/Hiroshima/Essentials.html > . > > I also remember reading how to find the closest 7-11 to the train > station, get cash from the ATM there, and even which flight of stairs to > walk up, to get to my hotel. People did amazing work (sample page - > http://www.ietf76.jp/access/). > > I THINK this might have been before we had meeting wikis (at least a > meeting wiki doesn't show up on the frozen IETF 76 meeting page), but if > we had the IETF 88 wiki up now, perhaps we could end up with an equally > fabulous guide before we get on planes/trains/whatever ... > [WEG] RFC6640 exists as a (hopefully) useful guideline for those locals wil= ling to provide advice, either in a meeting wiki or a standalone website - = questions culled straight from the attendees' lists. I'm not sure if IAOC i= s providing a pointer to this for the host or not, but it is worth noting t= hat the host is in no way required to provide much of this sort of informat= ion, and may not be able to do so because they are not actually local to th= e area. Thanks, Wes Anything below this line has been added by my company's mail server, I have= no control over it. ----------------- This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the= intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissem= ination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawf= ul. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender imm= ediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail an= d any printout. From agmalis@gmail.com Wed Aug 21 08:18:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F98D21F9BF2 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pWqdE64XLDE0 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x232.google.com (mail-we0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF6421F9C00 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u54so524175wes.23 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=sm868gOmLRCzmiYWymMTprc3N1YBSRBxT+HnfIRc1mM=; b=P3vOpa9EjZewM7t4sCxyW6EG9Ha5d/GAqdfgwLRZy+o4ZWtHYq/FpZLTqrB/iBjKEw FMnCN6maZiLbOMxQNZul4DEhlptdfAQOiWLFK6mUHljA3I8heJmuA+mjpaGpSNjWzMPV VKXOKK/ooxTGll6ppP+RMuBE5ykZPYIYKH/6zHqe6CUMQpDRrpSkdKpdeGvP1nIQNrvk W4WBc1J2CVzfcOA3t0uq/sZ35GoqGI3FXuO0g+5tXhPlB7ReoQqqA2OMg6voYPLX24uf rrInln68PdUUg4Ja7eg3B6cVaHDDxvecALiENW/qHSDYzwhFHHQDvA9/1E+QNV4zu7H4 RrkA== X-Received: by 10.180.183.51 with SMTP id ej19mr5860183wic.60.1377098310497; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.255.20 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:18:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <520FB278.9050609@dcrocker.net> <520FBCDC.6080808@nomountain.net> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775259D6B@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:18:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Hadriel Kaplan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2409e9e3ca604e476af8d Cc: "87attendees@ietf.org attendees" <87attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [87attendees] [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:18:32 -0000 --001a11c2409e9e3ca604e476af8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I agree that the Minneapolis Hilton works well for the IETF, and would like us to return there. We will be meeting during off-peak times in Vancouver, London, and Honolulu, so travel costs should be lower. Cheers, Andy On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Hadriel Kaplan wrote: > > On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > > > Minneapolis was a great venue. Is there a particular reason it's dropped > off the meeting schedule? > > I don't know the official reason, but IIRC the attendance rates for > Minneapolis were always lower than the meeting before and after. It's hard > to argue with actual numbers. It could be that other factors contributed > to that, but I doubt it. > > -hadriel > > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > --001a11c2409e9e3ca604e476af8d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree that the Minneapolis Hilton works well for th= e IETF, and would like us to return there.

We will be meeting = during off-peak times in Vancouver, London, and Honolulu, so travel costs s= hould be lower.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Hadriel Kaplan <hadriel.kaplan@oracle.com> wrote:

On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> Minneapolis was a great venue. Is there a particular reason it's d= ropped off the meeting schedule?

I don't know the official reason, but IIRC the attendance rates f= or Minneapolis were always lower than the meeting before and after. =A0It&#= 39;s hard to argue with actual numbers. =A0It could be that other factors c= ontributed to that, but I doubt it.

-hadriel

_______________________________________________
87attendees mailing list
87attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees

--001a11c2409e9e3ca604e476af8d-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Wed Aug 21 09:31:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC1B11E8255 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f0aJKUHtz5zi for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C9911E824F for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7LGVOat021106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:27 -0700 Message-ID: <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:30:59 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> In-Reply-To: <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:31:33 -0000 On 8/19/2013 1:47 PM, George, Wes wrote: > [WEG] RFC6640 exists as a (hopefully) useful guideline for those locals willing to provide advice, either in a meeting wiki or a standalone website - questions culled straight from the attendees' lists. I'm not sure if IAOC is providing a pointer to this for the host or not, but it is worth noting that the host is in no way required to provide much of this sort of information, and may not be able to do so because they are not actually local to the area I made a very specific proposal about SIM cards. My intent was to define a concrete means for of making it easy for attendees to buy SIM cards and to task IETF staff with assuring that. Especially for a demographic like the IETF -- and with this issue's having been raised repeatedly due to real challenges in different venues -- convenient SIM card access is a reasonable goal to pursue by IETF staff. In the abstract, this requirement breaks down into convenience of access, language, and information. That is, it needs to be physically and transactionally easy for an IETF attendees to get a local SIM card. If that can be achieved in a venue without having a table at Registration for a couple of days, fine. If the community supplies information that resolves the requirement with some pointers, that's fine too. If local vendors have no interest in assisting these purchases, that's unfortunate, let's not use that possibility as a reason not to pursue the topic; let them make their own business decisions. The essential point is to task staff with /ensuring/ the capability for each event. Claims that this is somehow an unreasonable burden for the staff imply a distorted sense of the scale of the task, as well as inviting review of the tasks assigned to the secretariat. While many/most IETF attendees have extremely well-developed travel skills, an organization purporting to be open and inclusive should put energy into assisting those will fewer skills. There are, of course, limits to what should or can be done in this regard, but as noted above, the issue of SIM cards is both important and a continuing concern. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From keith@dns-oarc.net Wed Aug 21 09:54:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0278611E8110 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:54:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZkGHDmlGCC2G for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.dns-oarc.net (in1.dns-oarc.net [149.20.58.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF07B11E8106 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen-keith.smoti.org (unknown [69.54.61.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.dns-oarc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72FD9BE013; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keith@dns-oarc.net) Message-ID: <5214F0AD.8040609@dns-oarc.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:54:05 -0400 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: OARC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121025 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:54:37 -0000 On 08/21/2013 12:30 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > I made a very specific proposal about SIM cards. My intent was to > define a concrete means for of making it easy for attendees to buy > SIM cards and to task IETF staff with assuring that. Especially for > a demographic like the IETF -- and with this issue's having been > raised repeatedly due to real challenges in different venues -- > convenient SIM card access is a reasonable goal to pursue by IETF > staff. For some UKNOF meetings, we were lucky enough to have a local sponsor who had the cool idea of printing full-size SIM cards, which included a fixed amount of prepaid data, as logo-branded name badges. This worked quite well, though when you have the same meetings in the same country the utility wears off quite quickly on repetition. It's possible this sponsor might be up for doing something similar for the London IETF89, I'm already in touch with the relevant IETF folks and could connect them if of interest. (In general in the UK, data roaming rates to the US are prohibitive, but prepay SIM cards on all 4 carriers are widely available, there's even a shop at LHR arrivals which sells nothing but.) Keith From joelja@gmail.com Wed Aug 21 10:26:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8F11E80FA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKYLwWAXdWl8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x236.google.com (mail-pb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62B611E83C2 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ro12so662870pbb.13 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TkowY+TN+cvKozyJjEElHUy1uzFqOPcdZXr5LKsbhA4=; b=P9GtprP8+kMWSn1hulxHe+whfke7ma+EgBjMfbtMGuR1xnRSlx2tCPmHKcNUpPQwwy 8O/l9F8CshZD2Lu/zyb921oTkkGPEIyukf6QWwKVcgaazJ2oPTOVi8obtVZfZK+kCbnQ efaFRkRsug6q2P4YlrSPzjSwRYSauG+d8p8dOtUPblysbHRcBztmul61pIDyncH5VLaA 1E2+d9JsH+tZFRzuV44H1DLpFGQrXwOtqqj2c1g2ps0IgWcHmwaIGh2RRb0DUFoukYg/ sJwnNy2vZBq19+ytDl7L6T1yMTUj0Gh2U2NDR9sVShKXmRKuADZ0rAx8QZxz46XmCjo7 sfSQ== X-Received: by 10.67.4.197 with SMTP id cg5mr10529407pad.10.1377105975663; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com. [64.47.153.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id yg1sm2816369pbb.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:26:12 -0700 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net, 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:26:43 -0000 On 8/21/13 9:30 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 8/19/2013 1:47 PM, George, Wes wrote: >> [WEG] RFC6640 exists as a (hopefully) useful guideline for those >> locals willing to provide advice, either in a meeting wiki or a >> standalone website - questions culled straight from the attendees' >> lists. I'm not sure if IAOC is providing a pointer to this for the >> host or not, but it is worth noting that the host is in no way >> required to provide much of this sort of information, and may not be >> able to do so because they are not actually local to the area > > > I made a very specific proposal about SIM cards. My intent was to define > a concrete means for of making it easy for attendees to buy SIM cards > and to task IETF staff with assuring that. Especially for a demographic > like the IETF -- and with this issue's having been raised repeatedly due > to real challenges in different venues -- convenient SIM card access is > a reasonable goal to pursue by IETF staff. Former employee of a multinational cellular equipment vendor here. while I won't dwell on the the details, different nations, have different identity/registration requirements for cellular telephones and the sale of such items is regulated. While not intractable the mechanics vary and it's worth keeping in mind that while outwardly simple, it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. > In the abstract, this requirement breaks down into convenience of > access, language, and information. That is, it needs to be physically > and transactionally easy for an IETF attendees to get a local SIM card. > > If that can be achieved in a venue without having a table at > Registration for a couple of days, fine. If the community supplies > information that resolves the requirement with some pointers, that's > fine too. If local vendors have no interest in assisting these > purchases, that's unfortunate, let's not use that possibility as a > reason not to pursue the topic; let them make their own business decisions. > > The essential point is to task staff with /ensuring/ the capability for > each event. Claims that this is somehow an unreasonable burden for the > staff imply a distorted sense of the scale of the task, as well as > inviting review of the tasks assigned to the secretariat. > > While many/most IETF attendees have extremely well-developed travel > skills, an organization purporting to be open and inclusive should put > energy into assisting those will fewer skills. There are, of course, > limits to what should or can be done in this regard, but as noted above, > the issue of SIM cards is both important and a continuing concern. > > d/ > From brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com Wed Aug 21 10:44:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6519711E812D for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.698, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6JAyxsIdNTAZ for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x234.google.com (mail-oa0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBC711E80FA for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f4so483814oah.39 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=LkBz8GUlqkX9M2zhbrwP5QcK2sxACgqgGGBUuFcE7ck=; b=o1H+YubLI0TTRPHbpN06aJZV1dBKLdaEnzs0w1qmC3fgEHIJZ39qPWzh3C71q78V9w YARbQ7d/cem3T0kJcWWJ3SVM4+Kk3RrvexJWT6dOxHxRpdCaRT8oU2z+mcD4B/tDX0gx QU95O/llxCUGwNGzQR+IJnpb+fXkLJtc//bWXXnlgqujQv7u3gFtpDs+EbPi9S+i9/Ri RQo+Ie2wDikHXVyPAimQS037ApGh63xSDkTMuh2QaT345stgyms5J6oczFxauOgyRwM2 4HZseUGHvB3U1ALWtDP3ykQ7fRl6JxOg/4n0e/R+TYdSAsw1DMOylzo2ZZ2XdJzxKTOu 4VaQ== X-Received: by 10.60.161.136 with SMTP id xs8mr3873714oeb.77.1377107065268; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.123.180.161] ([166.137.81.78]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z2sm11855686obi.3.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:44:24 -0700 (PDT) References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B350) From: Brian Dickson Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:44:16 -0400 To: joel jaeggli Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:44:27 -0000 On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli=20 wrote: > it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting that t= hey will for sure attend. However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance. Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more lead t= ime - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still bene= fits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' language(= s). If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But even w= ithout this, the advance investigation is still very useful. Brian= From carlos@lacnic.net Wed Aug 21 11:17:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6393311E812E for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:17:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.582, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BrRWGQBenKGs for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9E411E8107 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.87.57]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E74308457; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:17:13 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:17:31 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Dickson References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:17:44 -0000 +1, the point, restated, would be to ensure that during IETF events, attendeees who may need/want them can buy SIM cards at reasonable prices, and including obtaining some help in activating them taking into account that this process can be highly location-dependant and may imply languages other than English. If this results in one, two, or eight booths, or in a single wiki page with pointers to a nearby store (store that /should/ be contacted previously IMO), its all fine. regards ~Carlos On 8/21/13 2:44 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: > On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli > wrote: >> it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. > Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting that they will for sure attend. > > However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance. > > Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more lead time - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still benefits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' language(s). > > If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But even without this, the advance investigation is still very useful. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From dlake@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 11:42:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC67621F9930 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:42:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TAyZGyHAkxix for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3757421F8460 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3250; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377110545; x=1378320145; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=e+cMqWEdQV0A46R2SbatUJ6a494Q5jGscSzFAXpGDj0=; b=IgRZmFw+Nho6gdWyeGHjgG2t4zHrQuoO1lx7WCCNnkrXEIMmtcDGkBom JQvQriRjGLvxVOcUVeju4pIA0reo+SCgRcUfIuf+gpQAx8ChitM5ZOGYf Hfd7lKQPjlCI3ygW8UkisuAxEPxW0ByMU3z3qeWbf203Ox6np1tdTxPcN Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAMkJFVKtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABRCYMFNVG/ZIEfFnSCJAEBAQQBAQE3LAgLDAQCAQgRBAEBAQoLCQkHIQYLFAkIAgQBDQUIh3YDDwyrew2CAI1dgTaBETEHBgSDEXkDlXqOGIUogWKBO4Ir X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,929,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="250112003" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Aug 2013 18:42:21 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com [173.36.12.86]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7LIgKK4018514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:42:20 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.4.11]) by xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com ([173.36.12.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:42:20 -0500 From: "David Lake (dlake)" To: "Carlos M. Martinez" , Brian Dickson Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOnprFbaj1kP8Ba0KjhGgHYMSK9pmf+IuQ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:42:20 +0000 Message-ID: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.230.221] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:42:30 -0000 But, but, but.... The problem is that often times it's not AT the meeting that I want the SIM= , especially for data. It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch the = ground or the train crosses the border. So, ideally, I'd want a pre-activ= ated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days before the me= eting starts. That means sending me the SIM in advance of me travelling. THEN we hit Joel's point: "different nations, have different identity/registration requirements for c= ellular telephones and the sale of such items is regulated" =20 Even where it is legal to post a SIM, you can hit problems; having just bou= ght a very cheap SpeakOut Wireless SIM for Canada (http://www.speakout7elev= en.ca/) which was not activated, I've discovered that that particular MVNO = has no international roaming agreements, so I can't actually make the thing= work or stick any money on it until I arrive IN Canada. So my plan of gi= ving people my number before I travelled is scuppered - until I activate it= , I won't know the number and I can't activate it until... you get the poi= nt. Whilst the desire is admirable, I suspect that the number of permutations a= re too great to expect a volunteer force to handle. David -----Original Message----- From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Carlos M. Martinez Sent: 21 August 2013 11:18 To: Brian Dickson Cc: 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli; dcrocker@bbiw.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 8= 7 Berlin Meeting Review) +1, the point, restated, would be to ensure that during IETF events, attendeees who may need/want them can buy SIM cards at reasonable prices, a= nd including obtaining some help in activating them taking into account tha= t this process can be highly location-dependant and may imply languages oth= er than English. If this results in one, two, or eight booths, or in a single wiki page with= pointers to a nearby store (store that /should/ be contacted previously IM= O), its all fine. regards ~Carlos On 8/21/13 2:44 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: > On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: >> it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. > Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting tha= t they will for sure attend. > > However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance. > > Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more lea= d time - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still = benefits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' lang= uage(s). > > If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But ev= en without this, the advance investigation is still very useful. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees _______________________________________________ 87attendees mailing list 87attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From carlos@lacnic.net Wed Aug 21 11:48:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B770D21F9CAD for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:48:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.466, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id axAa44Yv1JDK for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2E021F9C0D for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.87.57]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9AD308456; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:47:28 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:47:49 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David Lake (dlake)" References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , Brian Dickson , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:48:08 -0000 Hello, the problem with the all the 'but' cases is that they sometimes cannot all be addressed. However, this is not a valid reason to not address the problem/request at all. "Since we cannot accomodate every_single_particular_possible_request, we decided to do nothing" just doesn't cut it. On the other hand, accomodating 80% percents of the perceived needs does cut it. cheers ~CArlos On 8/21/13 3:42 PM, David Lake (dlake) wrote: > But, but, but.... > > The problem is that often times it's not AT the meeting that I want the SIM, especially for data. > > It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch the ground or the train crosses the border. So, ideally, I'd want a pre-activated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days before the meeting starts. That means sending me the SIM in advance of me travelling. > > THEN we hit Joel's point: > > "different nations, have different identity/registration requirements for cellular telephones and the sale of such items is regulated" > > Even where it is legal to post a SIM, you can hit problems; having just bought a very cheap SpeakOut Wireless SIM for Canada (http://www.speakout7eleven.ca/) which was not activated, I've discovered that that particular MVNO has no international roaming agreements, so I can't actually make the thing work or stick any money on it until I arrive IN Canada. So my plan of giving people my number before I travelled is scuppered - until I activate it, I won't know the number and I can't activate it until... you get the point. > > Whilst the desire is admirable, I suspect that the number of permutations are too great to expect a volunteer force to handle. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos M. Martinez > Sent: 21 August 2013 11:18 > To: Brian Dickson > Cc: 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli; dcrocker@bbiw.net > Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) > > +1, the point, restated, would be to ensure that during IETF events, > attendeees who may need/want them can buy SIM cards at reasonable prices, and including obtaining some help in activating them taking into account that this process can be highly location-dependant and may imply languages other than English. > > If this results in one, two, or eight booths, or in a single wiki page with pointers to a nearby store (store that /should/ be contacted previously IMO), its all fine. > > regards > > ~Carlos > > On 8/21/13 2:44 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: >> On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: >>> it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. >> Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting that they will for sure attend. >> >> However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance. >> >> Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more lead time - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still benefits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' language(s). >> >> If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But even without this, the advance investigation is still very useful. >> >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From ole@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 12:11:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 239F411E8122 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:11:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Quja7-Ntjf3 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D67D11E8113 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:11:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2249; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377112284; x=1378321884; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=PjycQDjNxCmXluRLDPE32gBEEPq8a43cDqRtxyp2OVc=; b=i5HuvaLoxi3tGvptDyjQ1VBcYXvL7cqYrRRZBJgTih9dhOk29JEw4wyU OwFCjE52pxIed5p8P4QZB3C0uABgfMMrknxw42F0/bWY5TDP6XQ7R+r37 yays+NT5uVIxr2EgBNAO/aTgNgnUXpzsLu3bAgfGIh//XKSYBxZzH33gA 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,929,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="89723581" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Aug 2013 19:11:24 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7LJBMFC026834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:11:23 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ole Jacobsen To: "Carlos M. Martinez" In-Reply-To: <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> Message-ID: References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , Brian Dickson , "David Lake \(dlake\)" , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:11:30 -0000 On Wed, 21 Aug 2013, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > Hello, > > the problem with the all the 'but' cases is that they sometimes cannot > all be addressed. However, this is not a valid reason to not address the > problem/request at all. > > "Since we cannot accomodate every_single_particular_possible_request, we > decided to do nothing" just doesn't cut it. On the other hand, > accomodating 80% percents of the perceived needs does cut it. > > cheers > > ~CArlos > Carlos, Nobody is suggesting that "we decided to do nothing." What has been suggested is that SIM information is better provided by someone "local" be that the host, sponsor or simply someone who lives in the locale in question. Putting on an IETF meeting is a huge undertaking and it literally takes WEEKS of work from a team of dedicated volunteers and contractors who worry about everything from local electrical power conditions to ensuring that the IETF meeting network routing prefixes are properly propagated, and much more. Adding the SIM info to the list of "nice things to have" would certainly be fine, expecting that this become a mandatory requirement for hosts or even something the secretariat has on their task list seems a little too much to ask in my opinion. The Wiki model has worked, volunteer efforts such as http://hiroshima-info.info are also helpful (I have been told), but please remember that it is/was a volunteer effort, not a contracted piece of work. I think SIM info is certainly something that a number of people are interested in and Randy has already collected some information in the make-shift wiki. I am sure there will be much more to come. By the way, if you are reading this and happen to actually LIVE in Vancouver, please get in touch. There are many tasks on our to-do list for that meeting where local assistance would be greatly appreciated and actually reduce the cost of running the meeting. Your tax^H^H^ meeting dollars at work. Cheers, Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo From johnl@taugh.com Wed Aug 21 12:13:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D7421F9F21 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z6gPv5WNaGfL for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D715F21F9F20 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2528 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2013 19:13:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=9de.52151176.k1308; bh=JTVKiy/ZNvxX7NWpqHMAvcGvIPYj9iyaiJICwXftdiU=; b=GwYQOIRB+8spv+iPUcJa5V0cxW8EPzVmx2zO2gjEGNzX8Fmj8/N20B+ypjVbAIUe50uUehoh4gzxVjHFgqeEnuJ5pmsr3oAeL7bQx1dJYSguuqPy4c+o0FLKyD8jW74qVPPE8jNJVfv5uwC1HSzv81xMuaBqHX2oVWirZoupW6h42jx9DKgSDva3nKYwNEWXRXTbFfxt4oGMfXMzP07XG2/fKv4q2FOtUk1gYTlrRMEFnYaFAnVOY2PU9vLX+2DE DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=9de.52151176.k1308; bh=JTVKiy/ZNvxX7NWpqHMAvcGvIPYj9iyaiJICwXftdiU=; b=XgmbwdtmW0Bl261XisxAWfbQc613DACiOoZIVOMhhve/nf2VBzTrJUHQdy8gQosZMlAePEK6cNLNhFZbkaheQhphJPLCqistjIidtKopkphkX+HC8p4F35SYEGe2CJprCjMvu/9/oyhISmsp2cq5CS6Je9oabw9x3pn3+5Olr0wOTpSrPmFf/C9pzYtqkqGZm7iElqy8dkxgTKsNUjR6YlM+n9MlmyyQ3S9B0gEJtmvX12V2o42jBVoGBTOn2Sw3 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Aug 2013 19:13:36 -0000 Date: 21 Aug 2013 15:13:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "David Lake (dlake)" In-Reply-To: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:14:00 -0000 > It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch > the ground or the train crosses the border. So, ideally, I'd want a > pre-activated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days > before the meeting starts. That means sending me the SIM in advance of > me travelling. If it's that critical that you not even spend a few hours off the tether, the only provider I know is Telestial, which will mail order SIM cards from countries all over the world: http://www.telestial.com/ Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From carlos@lacnic.net Wed Aug 21 12:16:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8A021F9F50 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.388, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m5LyNC7MzG59 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B095221F9F21 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.87.57]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89BB308436; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:15:44 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <521511F5.2090409@lacnic.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:16:05 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , Brian Dickson , "David Lake \(dlake\)" , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:16:16 -0000 Ole, I wasn't implying that the IETF 'has decided to do nothing' (paraphrasing myself), I was arguing the point I felt the previous poster made. I'm well aware of the massive effort putting together such a conference implies, and I'm confident that good solutions will be found. cheers! ~Carlos On 8/21/13 4:11 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > On Wed, 21 Aug 2013, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> the problem with the all the 'but' cases is that they sometimes cannot >> all be addressed. However, this is not a valid reason to not address the >> problem/request at all. >> >> "Since we cannot accomodate every_single_particular_possible_request, we >> decided to do nothing" just doesn't cut it. On the other hand, >> accomodating 80% percents of the perceived needs does cut it. >> >> cheers >> >> ~CArlos >> > Carlos, > > Nobody is suggesting that "we decided to do nothing." What has been > suggested is that SIM information is better provided by someone > "local" be that the host, sponsor or simply someone who lives in > the locale in question. > > Putting on an IETF meeting is a huge undertaking and it literally > takes WEEKS of work from a team of dedicated volunteers and > contractors who worry about everything from local electrical power > conditions to ensuring that the IETF meeting network routing prefixes > are properly propagated, and much more. Adding the SIM info to the > list of "nice things to have" would certainly be fine, expecting that > this become a mandatory requirement for hosts or even something the > secretariat has on their task list seems a little too much to ask in > my opinion. > > The Wiki model has worked, volunteer efforts such as > http://hiroshima-info.info are also helpful (I have been told), but > please remember that it is/was a volunteer effort, not a contracted > piece of work. > > I think SIM info is certainly something that a number of people are > interested in and Randy has already collected some information in > the make-shift wiki. I am sure there will be much more to come. > > By the way, if you are reading this and happen to actually LIVE in > Vancouver, please get in touch. There are many tasks on our to-do > list for that meeting where local assistance would be greatly > appreciated and actually reduce the cost of running the meeting. > Your tax^H^H^ meeting dollars at work. > > Cheers, > > Ole > > > Ole J. Jacobsen > Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal > Cisco Systems > Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 > E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj > Skype: organdemo From dlake@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 12:18:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A57321F9EE9 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5RAkHt06Nk82 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B06A21F9BD0 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:18:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5391; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377112686; x=1378322286; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=dQ2Wj3G69yRTGJPOfLP5wUGuff/ccuGBU9VDmyP10m8=; b=WXDkzTnrLsb5+dMrJESQELR0SqUjj84pBfNdrZ2jNnii3Ro6dpCq85+t MwJaOfi20XO14GA/izmLhBkMkd2XFIhjnaAPDxbDqnyqiQsvRp2pgbOUT q51JBbzMopqiamufijZhkAGodClUHhrgoHOHsH/65ouPYIHsuCKg9WqM0 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAIoRFVKtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABRCYMFNVG/ZIEfFnSCJAEBAQQBAQE3LAgLDAQCAQgRBAEBAQoLCQkHIQYLFAkIAgQOBQiHdgMPDKUqhlANggCNXYE2gRExBwYEgxF5A5V6jhiFKIFigTuCKw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,929,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="249938662" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Aug 2013 19:18:05 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7LJI4Jq009175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:05 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.4.11]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:18:04 -0500 From: "David Lake (dlake)" To: "Carlos M. Martinez" Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOnprFbaj1kP8Ba0KjhGgHYMSK9pmf+IuQgABb7oD//6xbsA== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E984@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.230.221] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, joel jaeggli , Brian Dickson , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:18:11 -0000 If you can break the perceived need down to a manageable request that is at= tainable, that's fine.=20 But my SUSPICION is that there are so many variables here that even getting= to any sort of consensus of what we are asking to be provided is going to = be very, very difficult.=20 I'm not saying that it wouldn't be very useful - quite the opposite. For = every out-of-country IETF meeting I've been to, I've ended up spending hour= s researching and trying to obtain a SIM card (sometimes two) before I trav= el. It is far from easy, and yes, it would be LOVELY for that to be provid= ed. When you have to pick through terms and conditions such as I had from one c= ountry's operator telling me that my iPhone was classified as a "Smart Devi= ce" and not a "Phone" and therefore had to go on their extraordinarily high= monthly plan as opposed to my Android tablet which is still a "Phone" in t= heir eyes (then they have the audacity to charge for INCOMING calls even fr= om people trying to sell me things I don't want !), it is going to be a hug= e job for someone to deal with... David -----Original Message----- From: Carlos M. Martinez [mailto:carlos@lacnic.net]=20 Sent: 21 August 2013 11:48 To: David Lake (dlake) Cc: Brian Dickson; 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli; dcrocker@bbiw.net Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 8= 7 Berlin Meeting Review) Hello, the problem with the all the 'but' cases is that they sometimes cannot all = be addressed. However, this is not a valid reason to not address the proble= m/request at all. "Since we cannot accomodate every_single_particular_possible_request, we de= cided to do nothing" just doesn't cut it. On the other hand, accomodating 8= 0% percents of the perceived needs does cut it. cheers ~CArlos =20 On 8/21/13 3:42 PM, David Lake (dlake) wrote: > But, but, but.... > > The problem is that often times it's not AT the meeting that I want the S= IM, especially for data. > > It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch th= e ground or the train crosses the border. So, ideally, I'd want a pre-act= ivated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days before the = meeting starts. That means sending me the SIM in advance of me travelling. > > THEN we hit Joel's point: > > "different nations, have different identity/registration requirements for= cellular telephones and the sale of such items is regulated" =20 > > Even where it is legal to post a SIM, you can hit problems; having just b= ought a very cheap SpeakOut Wireless SIM for Canada (http://www.speakout7el= even.ca/) which was not activated, I've discovered that that particular MVN= O has no international roaming agreements, so I can't actually make the thi= ng work or stick any money on it until I arrive IN Canada. So my plan of = giving people my number before I travelled is scuppered - until I activate = it, I won't know the number and I can't activate it until... you get the p= oint. > > Whilst the desire is admirable, I suspect that the number of permutations= are too great to expect a volunteer force to handle. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: 87attendees-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:87attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carlos M. Martinez > Sent: 21 August 2013 11:18 > To: Brian Dickson > Cc: 87 Attendees; joel jaeggli; dcrocker@bbiw.net > Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all]=20 > IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) > > +1, the point, restated, would be to ensure that during IETF events, > attendeees who may need/want them can buy SIM cards at reasonable prices,= and including obtaining some help in activating them taking into account t= hat this process can be highly location-dependant and may imply languages o= ther than English. > > If this results in one, two, or eight booths, or in a single wiki page wi= th pointers to a nearby store (store that /should/ be contacted previously = IMO), its all fine. > > regards > > ~Carlos > > On 8/21/13 2:44 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: >> On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:26 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: >>> it will frequently be more complex then first glance affords. >> Individual attendees may or may not know well in advance of a meeting th= at they will for sure attend. >> >> However, the IETF knows it will, and where and when for years in advance= . >> >> Having IETF staff research these thing scales better and affords more le= ad time - even if the only result is stuff on a meeting wiki page. It still= benefits all attendees, and may provide helpful info in the attendees' lan= guage(s). >> >> If on-site SIM sales and/or re-form-factoring also happens, great. But e= ven without this, the advance investigation is still very useful. >> >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> 87attendees mailing list >> 87attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees > _______________________________________________ > 87attendees mailing list > 87attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/87attendees From dlake@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 12:25:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1231421F9FCA for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:25:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2qrvmt7sm8q5 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C1121F9FA4 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:25:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1190; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1377113130; x=1378322730; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=L7tIysTrPfM6e1sjzLpJntoXXYLI5GWFf6zwXqhAVvM=; b=Csio+QX9mCn52hzlopgkikr3+92YsklxoQZe/c1CaW/Xrz95iqBXQdFS nePTPIhNHV7i4ZSxZJCW9DDJUxP+1RBQf+gJ7NIErgnwI1wewcIyQ6UqA Q30aw5D1G7BVb/obGhemq8GcR2AirvYLjwO5qM8nVilKk7MWONRDEaQiM Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMFAC0TFVKtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABagwU1Ub9kgR8WdIIkAQEBAwF5BQcEAgEIBwoEAQELHQcyFAkIAgQOBQiIAgauEY8cgQgxBwaDFXkDiHWLFpUvgWKBO4FyOQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,929,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="250135700" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Aug 2013 19:25:30 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com [173.36.12.81]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7LJPT9o031777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:25:29 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.4.11]) by xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com ([173.36.12.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:25:29 -0500 From: "David Lake (dlake)" To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) Thread-Index: AQHOnprFbaj1kP8Ba0KjhGgHYMSK9pmf+IuQgABjPID//63GoA== Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:25:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75EA71@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.230.221] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:25:36 -0000 OUCH ! $US 0.49/MB !!!!=20 Maybe the IETF should go into business at those kind of rates and we would = never have to pay registration fees again...=20 I'm used to paying around =A38/month for 1GB of data on my iPad at roughly = =A31.00:$1.60 -----Original Message----- From: John R Levine [mailto:johnl@taugh.com]=20 Sent: 21 August 2013 12:14 To: David Lake (dlake) Cc: 87 Attendees Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 8= 7 Berlin Meeting Review) > It's BEFORE the meeting - for example from the minute the wheels touch=20 > the ground or the train crosses the border. So, ideally, I'd want a=20 > pre-activated SIM that I can move into my phone/tablet one or two days=20 > before the meeting starts. That means sending me the SIM in advance=20 > of me travelling. If it's that critical that you not even spend a few hours off the tether, t= he only provider I know is Telestial, which will mail order SIM cards from = countries all over the world: http://www.telestial.com/ Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropp= ed the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From dhc@dcrocker.net Wed Aug 21 12:27:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4873C21F8D90 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:27:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.067, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b2-h3Y58Kxsl for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFA521F8F24 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7LJRNXR024943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:27:26 -0700 Message-ID: <52151482.4050905@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:26:58 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:27:37 -0000 Ole, On 8/21/2013 12:11 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > Nobody is suggesting that "we decided to do nothing." Three IAOC members posted notes that used various approaches to dismiss the request I placed, with one of the approaches saying "let others do it". So in terms of the specific proposal that I made, the response really was a de facto decision (by the IAOC and therefore Secretariat) to do nothing. Telling others that they should go work on a task is not a "decision to do something". > Putting on an IETF meeting is a huge undertaking... Adding the SIM info to the list of "nice things to have" would certainly be fine, expecting > that this become a mandatory requirement for hosts or even something > the secretariat has on their task list seems a little too much to ask > in my opinion. Given how casually the Secretariat took on the considerable extra tasks of event planning for Bits-n-Bites, the very modest details involved here don't look nearly as daunting as you seem to be implying. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From johnl@taugh.com Wed Aug 21 12:30:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4607A21F9E43 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OUlLxf5llqS8 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA15321F9E44 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6369 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2013 19:30:48 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=18e0.52151568.k1308; bh=/qremWbrM3DgnMZLzGha9rGT8F2dz3Gb3ZAy83+LWwI=; b=kSxsxvpMwmTNP3X7T5hKgo3adaMaiw/VB5YyvHGBvIhWn91dv9cnGMLsDcatQtKYu31wp8v2Xt8e5sQgy9t475kPfpI5wSHxZVQqkiehPt1M7NKYsVqKvMNzIp3UYHqM7Z9k44s88cjkFim4kT28Lk/KeRhKiF391gTsWIiglKeGV5aU1AnC+agPqIe5eTlXaLuiJ/ttQZJqRf7FT+QACwIWbhGfnMd3wipman3+pQ9CcYZbRebVD+0++S8/w5KN DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=18e0.52151568.k1308; bh=/qremWbrM3DgnMZLzGha9rGT8F2dz3Gb3ZAy83+LWwI=; b=OGVV5+2DYgqjrHzm3nMw+Zp/aV7Ejgv/UE0Wm5ZqcfpwI4FV8R6p5YsLq+RpU2/afhkEQ5nr6irwcjh+GXDmrrzkYshHwjMWx9SOXDvBNqpSSMz4Wg/S4/wPxDW6W4eDp0zytK3cDWSwTsl4CDt4PxXEAWWJZGO3P1a3r2I7z5WYLHMaiX+8O/JEycqxCErIRzfnOeVMxFPF+gbwZEd7lpjJYYh9WmmtfCKIU8siSoPOrC1dZeauM63JaqYn+MfC Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Aug 2013 19:30:26 -0000 Date: 21 Aug 2013 15:30:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "David Lake (dlake)" In-Reply-To: <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75EA71@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75EA71@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3825401791-16423517-1377113448=:89734" Cc: 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:30:52 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-16423517-1377113448=:89734 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > OUCH ! $US 0.49/MB !!!! > > Maybe the IETF should go into business at those kind of rates and we would never have to pay registration fees again... > > I'm used to paying around £8/month for 1GB of data on my iPad at roughly £1.00:$1.60 I didn't say it was cheap, I said they would mail you the SIM ahead of time. If you're willing to wait at least until you emerge from baggage claim, many of the airports at which people arrive for meetings have stores, kiosks, or vending machines with local SIMs. That's the kind of stuff I'd hope to find in the wiki. R's, John > If it's that critical that you not even spend a few hours off the tether, the only provider I know is Telestial, which will mail order SIM cards from countries all over the world: > http://www.telestial.com/ --3825401791-16423517-1377113448=:89734-- From randy@psg.com Wed Aug 21 18:29:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7984921F999B for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:29:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kto6tO9AoAz7 for <87attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB1E21F9994 for <87attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VCJha-0003CU-0s; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 01:28:42 +0000 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:28:40 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Ole Jacobsen In-Reply-To: References: <6j3itkppvci8vejnmp4rlv2u.1376669623100@email.android.com> <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630775258D72@mbx-01.win.nominum.com> <520F663F.3000505@gmail.com> <2671C6CDFBB59E47B64C10B3E0BD59230439D43698@PRVPEXVS15.corp.twcable.com> <5214EB43.2030304@dcrocker.net> <5214F834.2090701@gmail.com> <0FB5FD13-2E44-46F7-A909-EC383B51AAD7@gmail.com> <5215043B.2060509@lacnic.net> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB0A75E74A@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <52150B55.9050601@lacnic.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Brian Dickson , joel jaeggli , "dcrocker@bbiw.net" , 87 Attendees <87attendees@ietf.org>, "Carlos M. Martinez" , "David Lake \(dlake\)" Subject: Re: [87attendees] SIM purchase at the IETF (was Re: [87all] IETF 87 Berlin Meeting Review) X-BeenThere: 87attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <87attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 01:29:04 -0000 > Nobody is suggesting that "we decided to do nothing." What has been > suggested is that SIM information is better provided by someone > "local" be that the host, sponsor or simply someone who lives in > the locale in question. you mean such as http://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/ietf88 ? randy