From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 03:56:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN3Z0-0000HA-Uc; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:56:30 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN3Yz-0000Gl-9h; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:56:29 -0500 Received: from nj300815-ier2.net.avaya.com ([198.152.12.103]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN3Yt-0003yN-QM; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:56:29 -0500 Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51]) by nj300815-ier2.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l228uL3w019917; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 03:56:22 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:56:21 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Documents on IESG Telechat Agenda for March 8, 2007 Thread-Index: Acdci4yfO1ZGh/OMQ66kzGyMtCHccQAHH9AQ From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , , X-Scanner: InterScan AntiVirus for Sendmail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bacfc6c7290e34d410f9bc22b825ce96 Cc: Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] FW: Documents on IESG Telechat Agenda for March 8, 2007 X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Please see below the documents on the agenda for next IESG telechat. Please note that there are several MIB documents on the agenda this time. I would appreciate if you can send me your reviews and comments by Wednesday, March 7, 2007 COB.=20 Thanks and Regards, Dan 2. Protocol Actions Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable basis on which to build the salient part of the Internet infrastructure? If not, what changes would make it so?" 2.1 WG Submissions 2.1.1 New Item o draft-ietf-ccamp-crankback-06.txt Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE (Proposed=20 Standard) - 1 of 12=20 Token: Ross Callon o draft-ietf-hubmib-efm-mib-06.txt Definitions and Managed Objects for OAM Functions on Ethernet Like=20 Interfaces (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 12=20 Note: Bert Wijnen is the PROTO shepherd=20 Token: Dan Romascanu o draft-ietf-idr-avoid-transition-04.txt Avoid BGP Best Path Transitions from One External to Another (Proposed=20 Standard) - 3 of 12=20 Note: Last Call ends 2007-03-12=20 Token: Bill Fenner o draft-ietf-pim-sm-bsr-10.txt Bootstrap Router (BSR) Mechanism for PIM (Proposed Standard) - 4 of 12=20 Note: Last Call ends 2007-03-12=20 Token: Bill Fenner o draft-ietf-avt-hc-over-mpls-protocol-08.txt Protocol Extensions for Header Compression over MPLS (Proposed Standard) -=20 5 of 12=20 Note: PROTO Shepherd is Colin Perkins.=20 Token: Cullen Jennings o draft-ietf-rohc-tcp-16.txt RObust Header Compression (ROHC): A Profile for TCP/IP (ROHC-TCP) (Proposed=20 Standard) - 6 of 12=20 Token: Magnus Westerlund o draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-18.txt HTTP Extensions for Distributed Authoring - WebDAV (Proposed Standard) - 7=20 of 12=20 Token: Ted Hardie o draft-ietf-sip-connected-identity-05.txt Connected Identity in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) (Proposed=20 Standard) - 8 of 12=20 Note: Keith Drage is the document PROTO shepherd=20 Token: Cullen Jennings o draft-ietf-imss-fc-zs-mib-03.txt Fibre-Channel Zone Server MIB (Proposed Standard) - 9 of 12=20 Token: Dan Romascanu o draft-ietf-imss-fc-rscn-mib-02.txt Fibre Channel Registered State Change Notification (RSCN) MIB (Proposed=20 Standard) - 10 of 12=20 Token: Dan Romascanu o draft-ietf-imss-fc-fcs-mib-02.txt Fibre-Channel Fabric Configuration Server MIB (Proposed Standard) - 11 of=20 12=20 Token: Dan Romascanu o draft-ietf-eap-keying-18.txt Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) Key Management Framework (Proposed=20 Standard) - 12 of 12=20 Token: Jari Arkko 2.1.2 Returning Item o draft-ietf-mpls-ecmp-bcp-03.txt Avoiding Equal Cost Multipath Treatment in MPLS Networks (BCP) - 1 of 1=20 Token: Ross Callon 2.2 Individual Submissions 2.2.1 New Item o draft-bellovin-useipsec-06.txt Guidelines for Mandating the Use of IPsec (BCP) - 1 of 5=20 Token: Russ Housley o draft-siemborski-rfc2554bis-08.txt SMTP Service Extension for Authentication (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 5=20 Token: Lisa Dusseault o Five-document ballot: - 3 of 5 - draft-legg-xed-rxer-07.txt Robust XML Encoding Rules (RXER) for Abstract Syntax Notation One (ASN.1) (Proposed Standard)=20 - draft-legg-xed-rxer-ei-04.txt Encoding Instructions for the Robust XML Encoding Rules (RXER) (Proposed=20 Standard)=20 - draft-legg-xed-asd-07.txt Abstract Syntax Notation X (ASN.X) (Proposed Standard)=20 - draft-legg-xed-asd-gserei-03.txt Abstract Syntax Notation X (ASN.X) Representation of Encoding=20 Instructions for the Generic String Encoding Rules (GSER) (Proposed=20 Standard)=20 - draft-legg-xed-asd-xerei-03.txt Abstract Syntax Notation X (ASN.X) Representation of Encoding=20 Instructions for the XML Encoding Rules (XER) (Proposed Standard) Token: Ted Hardie o draft-mcwalter-langtag-mib-02.txt Language Tag MIB (Proposed Standard) - 4 of 5=20 Token: Bill Fenner o draft-mcwalter-uri-mib-03.txt Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) MIB (Proposed Standard) - 5 of 5=20 Token: Bill Fenner 2.2.2 Returning Item NONE 3. Document Actions 3.1 WG Submissions Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If not, what changes would make it so?" 3.1.1 New Item o draft-ietf-opes-smtp-security-03.txt Integrity, privacy and security in OPES for SMTP (Informational) - 1 of 5=20 Token: Ted Hardie o draft-ietf-pce-pcecp-interarea-reqs-05.txt PCE Communication Protocol (PCECP) Specific Requirements for Inter-Area=20 Multi Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic=20 Engineering (Informational) - 2 of 5=20 Token: Ross Callon o draft-iesg-sponsoring-guidelines-01.txt Guidance on Area Director Sponsoring of Documents (Informational) - 3 of 5=20 Note: Decided on 2007-01-25 to make this an RFC not an ION, but Last Call=20 comments have reopened that question.=20 Token: Brian Carpenter o draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-08.txt Requirements for a Mechanism Identifying a Name Server Instance=20 (Informational) - 4 of 5=20 Note: Peter Koch <pk@denic.de> is the document shepherd=20 Token: David Kessens o draft-ietf-v6ops-natpt-to-historic-00.txt Reasons to Move NAT-PT to Historic Status (Informational) - 5 of 5=20 Token: David Kessens 3.1.2 Returning Item NONE 3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If not, what changes would make it so?" 3.2.1 New Item NONE 3.2.2 Returning Item NONE 3.3 Independent Submissions Via RFC Editor The IESG will use RFC 3932 responses: 1) The IESG has not found any conflict between this document and IETF work; 2) The IESG thinks that this work is related to IETF work done in WG , but this does not prevent publishing; 3) The IESG thinks that publication is harmful to work in WG and recommends not publishing at this time; 4) The IESG thinks that this document violates the IETF procedures for and should therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval; 5) The IESG thinks that this document extends an IETF protocol in a way that requires IETF review and should therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval. =20 Other matters may be recorded in comments to be passed on to the RFC Editor as community review of the document. 3.3.1 New Item o draft-blanchet-v6ops-tunnelbroker-tsp-03.txt IPv6 Tunnel Broker with the Tunnel Setup Protocol (TSP) (Experimental) - 1=20 of 1=20 Note: See 'IESG Note' section for proposed RFC 3932 response.=20 Token: David Kessens 3.3.2 Returning Item NONE 3.3.3 For Action o draft-ooms-xcast-basic-spec-11.txt Explicit Multicast (Xcast) Concepts and Options (Experimental) - 1 of 1=20 Token: Brian Carpenter _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 09 04:29:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPbPl-0006ly-BQ; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:29:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPaPu-00039Z-Hv; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:25:34 -0500 Received: from co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.103]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPaPt-0003Vk-J8; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:25:34 -0500 Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51]) by co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l298POEK001855; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 03:25:25 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:25:24 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague Thread-Index: AcdiJHn/vwkwYcLPSbqV8+tHeow6fA== From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: "OPS Area" X-Scanner: InterScan AntiVirus for Sendmail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9af087f15dbdd4c64ae6bbcdbc5b1d44 Cc: ngo@ietf.org, ops-nm@ietf.org, aaa-doctors@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , IETF MIBs , ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Following a number a comments I have updated the agenda for the OPS Area meeting in Prague. Comments are still welcome.=20 Dan Meeting : IETF68, Monday March 19, 2007 and Wednesday March 21, 2007=20 Location: Congress II, Monday March 19, 2007 15:20 to 17:20 and Congress I, Wednesday March 21, 2007 13:00 to 16:10=20 Chairs : David Kessens (david.kessens@nokia.com), Dan Romascanu (dromasca@avaya.com), Ron Bonica (bonica@juniper.net)=20 Jabber : ops@jabber.ietf.org URL : http://www.ops.ietf.org/ Agenda : version 0.1 (draft) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Meeting 1 - Monday March 19, 2007 15:20 to 17:20=20 1. Meeting Administrivia ADs (total: 5 min)=20 Mailing list and URL=20 Minutes Scribe=20 Jabber Scribe=20 Blue Sheets=20 2. Introduction of new Area Director - Ron Bonica (5 min)=20 3. Mini-BOF A: - Manageability and Operational Guidelines - David Harrington (total: 30 min)=20 We need to develop multi-protocol manageability and operational guidelines for developers of protocols in the IETF. An internet-draft has been published that summarizes previous work on this goal as a starting point. This work would lead to either a WG, if enough people want to be involved, or a design team to get the document finished. If we can get enough feedback from operators and from protocol designers, this could lead to a BCP; with limited input it would lead to an Informational RFC instead.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-harrington-operations-and-mana gement-00.txt=20 4. Mini-BOF B: COPS push mode policy configuration - Tom Taylor and Tina Tsou (total: 30 min)=20 This mini-BOF is requested to gain comments on a technical proposal to reduce the number of messages required when COPS is used to support push mode policy configuration, where each request-state corresponds to an user session. The essence of this proposal is to allow the PDP to request the opening of a new request-state in the same message that sends down policy to be stored against this request-state. At the other end of the session life cycle, allow the PDP to delete a request-state. The proposed extensions to COPS could save two to three messages per session, depending on the details that are finally agreed.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-cops-push-00.txt=20 5. Mini-BOF C: Best Current Practices in Operations and Management - David Harrington (total: 20 min)=20 This would be an effort to get operators together in a WG to develop a set of best current practices, and a description of supporting technologies, for manageability and operations, similar to the work done in the OpSec? WG. There will not be an internet-draft published prior to ietf68. A WG should be created for operators to do this work.=20 6. Improved Efficiency of the OPS Area - proposal for the formation of a OPS Area WG - ADs (total: 15 min)=20 7. Open Microphone - 15 min=20 Meeting 2 - Wednesday March 21, 2007 - 13:00 to 16:10=20 1. Meeting Administrivia ADs (total: 5 min)=20 Mailing list and URL=20 Minutes Scribe=20 Jabber Scribe=20 Blue Sheets=20 2. Mini-BOF D: NE/facilities/lines/protocols/services data modeling - Michael Alexander (total: 40 min)=20 Network Management (NM) standards have traditionally been focused on protocols, such as pertaining to configuration management and discovery. Yet, all areas of Network Management, ranging from Element Management (EM) to Network Management Systems (NMS) and Service Management Systems have in common that they critically rely on underlying data structures describing devices and services being managed. Network elements (NE) frequently spawn ten thousands of managed objects, such as for a multiservice switch...Traditionally, standardization of access-methods (protocols), discovery, etc. have received most attention, while the more heterogeneous data models and data modeling per saw comparatively less. As there are real possibilities to standardize underlying and universal commonalities in EMS/NMS/Service Management Systems on the one side and managed attributes of NEs, protocols, transmission facilities, lines and services on the other, the two distributions should be closer aligned. Despite the complexity, it is possible to identify and define frameworks and meta models of each constituent and their relation to each other, that would substantially ease the management of present and future devices, networks and services.=20 I-D: draft-alexan-datamod-00.txt=20 3. MIB-Doctor-sponsored MIB-document-writing template: David Harrington (total: 10 min)=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-harrington-text-mib-doc-templa te-02.txt=20 4. Mini-BOF E: MIB module editing in XML : Emile Stephan (total: 20 min) Present the state of the art of editing MIB module in XML; Introduce a basic template to edit SMI items in pure XML instead of in raw text; Propose a simple XML template for SMI items; discuss the connections with XML schema and network management protocols.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stephan-ops-xml-mib-module-tem plate-00.txt=20 5. Mini-BOF F: Japanese Data Model Standards: Tomoyuki Iijima (total: 20 min)=20 I'd like to show the data model examples we developed and was adopted in the Japanese Standard body.=20 We developed data models of VLAN, Filter (Access Control List), and so on and those data models were adopted by Japanese standardization body called INTAP/OSMIC as standard data models. I'd like to make our data model examples be adopted as an Informational RFC.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iijima-ngo-vlandatamodel-00.tx t=20 6. Mini-BOF G: OWL techniques for MIB to XML documents and schema translation - Bob Natale (total: 40 min)=20 Specification of a standard methodology for translating SNMP MIBs into outputs more directly usable by emerging SOA/web services management tools, and specification of a standard methodology for validating those translations. Appropriate translation outputs are TBD by the WG, but can be expected to include one or more of the following: XML, RDF, WSDL, WS-Policy, WS-Event/Notification, Ontology. The translation output(s) should allow for extension of the respective managed element data model in the native SOA/web services environment. Because of the extensibility objective, reverse translation back into SNMP MIB format is a non-goal of the WG, but the possibility should be considered when weighing alternatives.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-natale-snmp-mibs-to-ontology-0 0.txt=20 7. Late Submission - requirements to tunneling protocols OAM - KIKUCHI Yutaka (total: 15 min)=20 This draft describes requirements to measure end-to-end qualities of tunnels passively and to monitor them via SNMP. This feature is necessary for Service Providers, especially, who provide transports to users using tunnels. In addition, the draft shows an example to measure Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE) tunnels.=20 I-D: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iijima-ngo-vlandatamodel-00.tx t=20 8. Open microphone (total: 40 min)=20 _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 09 05:32:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPcOu-00079c-N7; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:32:40 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPcOs-00078i-TD; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:32:38 -0500 Received: from co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.103]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPcOq-0007jW-Gt; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:32:38 -0500 Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51]) by co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l29AWUOB012985; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 05:32:31 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 12:32:29 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NGO] Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague Thread-Index: AcdiNIED2Sa8vNBCScCl+dUgbRO1lgAAZ/Mw References: <45F134C8.4010405@hitachi.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: "Tomoyuki Iijima" X-Scanner: InterScan AntiVirus for Sendmail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: ngo@ietf.org, ops-nm@ietf.org, aaa-doctors@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , IETF MIBs , ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, OPS Area Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] RE: [NGO] Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Sorry for the confusion. Is there a draft to support the presentation that you will be making in Prague?=20 Dan =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tomoyuki Iijima [mailto:tomoyuki.iijima.fg@hitachi.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:20 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: OPS Area; ngo@ietf.org; ops-nm@ietf.org;=20 > aaa-doctors@ietf.org; MIB Doctors (E-mail); IETF MIBs;=20 > ops-dir@ops.ietf.org; nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de > Subject: Re: [NGO] Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague >=20 > Dear Dan, >=20 > > 7. Late Submission - requirements to tunneling protocols=20 > OAM - KIKUCHI=20 > > Yutaka (total: 15 min) > >=20 > > This draft describes requirements to measure end-to-end=20 > qualities of=20 > > tunnels passively and to monitor them via SNMP. This feature is=20 > > necessary for Service Providers, especially, who provide=20 > transports to=20 > > users using tunnels. In addition, the draft shows an example to=20 > > measure Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE) tunnels. > >=20 > > I-D: > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iijima-ngo-vlandatamodel-00. > > tx > > t >=20 > This draft does not correspond to the presentation above. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > -- > Tomoyuki Iijima > Hitachi, Ltd. Central Research Laboratory > TEL:+81-42-323-1111 ext.3579 > FAX:+81-42-327-7868 > E-mail:tomoyuki.iijima.fg@hitachi.com >=20 _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 11 15:03:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQTK4-0003zq-GL; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:03:12 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPcCa-0007Wm-Nz; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:19:56 -0500 Received: from mail7.hitachi.co.jp ([133.145.228.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPcCZ-00066I-A8; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:19:56 -0500 Received: from mlsv3.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail7.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4B737ADF; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:19:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter-s2.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv3.hitachi.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.10) id l29AJuan009711; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:19:56 +0900 Received: from vshuts4.hitachi.co.jp (unverified) by mfilter-s2.hitachi.co.jp (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.17) with SMTP id ; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:19:53 +0900 Received: from gmml27.itg.hitachi.co.jp ([158.213.165.130]) by vshuts4.hitachi.co.jp with SMTP id M2007030919195211624 ; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:19:53 +0900 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml27.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id l29AJqp6910092; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:19:52 +0900 Message-ID: <45F134C8.4010405@hitachi.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:19:52 +0900 From: Tomoyuki Iijima User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:03:11 -0400 Cc: ngo@ietf.org, ops-nm@ietf.org, aaa-doctors@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , IETF MIBs , ops-dir@ops.ietf.org, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, OPS Area Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Re: [NGO] Updated Agenda for the OPS AREA meetings in Prague X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Dear Dan, > 7. Late Submission - requirements to tunneling protocols OAM - KIKUCHI > Yutaka (total: 15 min) > > This draft describes requirements to measure end-to-end qualities of > tunnels passively and to monitor them via SNMP. This feature is > necessary for Service Providers, especially, who provide transports to > users using tunnels. In addition, the draft shows an example to measure > Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE) tunnels. > > I-D: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iijima-ngo-vlandatamodel-00.tx > t This draft does not correspond to the presentation above. Best regards, -- Tomoyuki Iijima Hitachi, Ltd. Central Research Laboratory TEL:+81-42-323-1111 ext.3579 FAX:+81-42-327-7868 E-mail:tomoyuki.iijima.fg@hitachi.com _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 15 10:12:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HRqhK-0007IY-Cp; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:12:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HRqhI-0007Hc-Ir; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:12:52 -0400 Received: from co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.103]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HRqhF-0005wW-Ro; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:12:51 -0400 Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51]) by co300216-ier2.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l2FECb7Y025062; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:12:38 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:12:37 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [OPS-AREA] Open Office Hours Thread-Index: AcdmuKJ2FxYwcDcCSJOTVtZAbi37yQAU0QMQ From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , , , X-Scanner: InterScan AntiVirus for Sendmail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] FW: [OPS-AREA] Open Office Hours X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: David Kessens [mailto:david.kessens@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:12 AM To: Operations and Management Area Subject: [OPS-AREA] Open Office Hours We would like to let you know that the Operations and Management Area Directors have decided to hold Open Office hours again during this IETF. Feel free to step by to discuss any IETF related issue or to meet Ron Bonica who will take over David Kessens role after this IETF. See below for the logistics information: Date: Tue, March 20 Time: 15.00-17.20 Location: Rokoska Date: Wed, March 21 Time: 16.10-17.00 Location: Rokoska Date: Thu, March 22 Time: 16.10-17.00 Location: Rokoska (most up to date information is always on the wiki at: http://www1.tools.ietf.org/area/ops/trac/wiki) David & Dan --- _______________________________________________ OPS-AREA mailing list OPS-AREA@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 18 11:35:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSxQD-0006dJ-VQ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:35:49 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSxQB-0006c7-JZ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:35:47 -0400 Received: from nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.12.100] helo=nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSxQA-0002CZ-CE; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:35:47 -0400 Received: from 51.105.64.135.in-addr.arpa (HELO IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.105.51]) by nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2007 11:35:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,297,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="58418207:sNHT12873490" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:35:07 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated OPS Area meetings agenda Thread-Index: AcdpcwDlTZR8Ai01RWy8CX78VOlvuw== From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: , , "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , "IETF MIBs" , , X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Updated OPS Area meetings agenda X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org An updated version of the agenda of the OPS area open meetings is available at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/agenda/opsarea.txt.=20 See you all there on Monday and Wednesday.=20 David, Dan and Ron _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 03:38:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTYvG-0005Fn-Ui; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:38:22 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTYvF-0005Ee-59; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:38:21 -0400 Received: from nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.12.100] helo=nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTYvD-0007vX-VW; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:38:21 -0400 Received: from 51.105.64.135.in-addr.arpa (HELO IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.105.51]) by nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Mar 2007 03:37:51 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,302,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="59397761:sNHT17930052" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:38:01 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Reminder: OPS Area Open Hours Thread-Index: Acdqwq+qugly+QkLRayPxGCKhyjPPA== From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: , , "IETF MIBs" , "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , , <68attendees@ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Reminder: OPS Area Open Hours X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org This is a reminder for everybody attending the IETF meeting in Prague that David, Ron and Dan will be available in Prague to talk with everybody interested in Operations and Management area issues. The schedule is below, we invite you to come and talk with us about the proposals aired in the OPS area meetings, activities in the Working Groups and in the area in general, proposals and ideas, feedback and critics.=20 Date: Tue, March 20 Time: 15.00-17.20 Location: Rokoska Date: Wed, March 21 Time: 16.10-17.00 Location: Rokoska Date: Thu, March 22 Time: 16.10-17.00 Location: Rokoska David, Ron and Dan =20 _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 19:34:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTnqU-0002XH-Ah; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:34:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTnqT-0002V6-0C; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:34:25 -0400 Received: from outbound.mailhop.org ([63.208.196.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTnqR-0002RY-Ms; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:34:24 -0400 Received: from c-24-16-66-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net ([24.16.66.58] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTnqQ-000NVr-Vh; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:34:23 -0400 Received: by internaut.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4A5A343EDF; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internaut.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416F243ED5; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:34:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 24.16.66.58 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:34:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: aaa-doctors@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: ops-nm@ietf.org Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Review of draft-lior-radius-attribute-type-extension-01 X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org On December 5, 2006 a call for review of the RADIUS extended attribute document was issued to the RADEXT WG as well as other IETF WGs affected by the document: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/radiusext/2006/msg01002.html Unfortunately, no review comments were received relating to this document. Given that the call for review occurred during the holiday season, we are reissuing the call for review. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The RADEXT WG has a charter deliverable for an extended form of RADIUS attribute. The apparent consensus in the WG is to solve a very simple set of problems in this space, including the pending exhaustion of the standard RADIUS attribute IDs, a consistent mechanism for application layer fragmentation and reassembly for Diameter interoperability, and a consistent mechanism for grouping of attributes for data structuring, also for Diameter interoperability. Given the list of proposed work in RADEXT and other IETF WGs with RADIUS extensions work on their charters, it is conceivable that we might exhaust the existing IANA RADIUS registry for Attribute Types fairly soon. Therefore, this work is considered to be of some urgency. The structure of the extended attribute format currently under consideration may require changes in various RADIUS extensions drafts in RADEXT and other IETF working groups. This assumes that at least some of these documents will ultimately use the RADIUS extended attribute allocations. Because of its potentially wide impact, the RADEXT WG Chairs are requesting that the RADEXT WG and all other affected WGs please review the following document: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lior-radius-attribute-type-extension-01.txt Please comment as to whether this document is ready for adoption as a WG work item, and provide comments as to suggested changes or mprovements by sending email to radiusext@ops.ietf.org. Please use the RADEXT Issue Tracker format template, found at: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/RADEXT/ and submit your comments to the RADEXT WG mailing list with the keyword "New Issue" in the subject header. Please respond by April 10, 2006. Once all the resultant open issues have been resolved, the RADEXT WG Chairs expect that a WGLC will be issued on the revised draft soon thereafter. Thank you, in advance, for your timely review. Regards, Dave Nelson Bernard Aboba Co-Chairs, RADEXT WG _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 20:12:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HToQr-0008DH-JT; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:12:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HToQq-0008D2-BS for aaa-doctors@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:12:00 -0400 Received: from outbound.mailhop.org ([63.208.196.171]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HToQi-0001o1-CM for aaa-doctors@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:12:00 -0400 Received: from c-24-16-66-58.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([24.16.66.58] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HToQf-0005ip-Q4 for aaa-doctors@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:11:50 -0400 Received: by internaut.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5880F43EDF; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internaut.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A74F43ED5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:11:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 24.16.66.58 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: aaa-doctors@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Request for Review of draft-lior-radius-attribute-type-extension-01 X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org On December 5, 2006 a call for review of the RADIUS extended attribute document was issued to the RADEXT WG as well as other IETF WGs affected by the document: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/radiusext/2006/msg01002.html Unfortunately, no review comments were received relating to this document. As a result, we are reissuing the call for review. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The RADEXT WG has a charter deliverable for an extended form of RADIUS attribute. The apparent consensus in the WG is to solve a very simple set of problems in this space, including the pending exhaustion of the standard RADIUS attribute IDs, a consistent mechanism for application layer fragmentation and reassembly for Diameter interoperability, and a consistent mechanism for grouping of attributes for data structuring, also for Diameter interoperability. Given the list of proposed work in RADEXT and other IETF WGs with RADIUS extensions work on their charters, it is conceivable that we might exhaust the existing IANA RADIUS registry for Attribute Types fairly soon. Therefore, this work is considered to be of some urgency. The structure of the extended attribute format currently under consideration may require changes in various RADIUS extensions drafts in RADEXT and other IETF working groups. This assumes that at least some of these documents will ultimately use the RADIUS extended attribute allocations. Because of its potentially wide impact, the RADEXT WG Chairs are requesting that the RADEXT WG and all other affected WGs please review the following document: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lior-radius-attribute-type-extension-01.txt Please comment as to whether this document is ready for adoption as a WG work item, and provide comments as to suggested changes or mprovements by sending email to radiusext@ops.ietf.org. Please use the RADEXT Issue Tracker format template, found at: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/RADEXT/ and submit your comments to the RADEXT WG mailing list with the keyword "New Issue" in the subject header. Please respond by April 10, 2007. Once all the resultant open issues have been resolved, the RADEXT WG Chairs expect that a WGLC will be issued on the revised draft soon thereafter. Thank you, in advance, for your timely review. Regards, Dave Nelson Bernard Aboba Co-Chairs, RADEXT WG _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 25 08:10:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HVRYU-0007zA-8s; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:10:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT4Wx-00053t-Ic; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:11:15 -0400 Received: from muonics.com ([66.92.223.18] helo=slepton.muonics.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT4Wv-0004IL-2b; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:11:15 -0400 Received-SPF: Received-SPF: pass (slepton.muonics.com: domain of mikek@muonics.com designates 66.92.223.18 as permitted sender) receiver=slepton.muonics.com; client_ip=66.92.223.18; envelope-from=mikek@muonics.com; Received: from muonics.com (muonics.com [66.92.223.18]) by slepton.muonics.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l2IN2n8B031262; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kirkham To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:10:37 -0400 Cc: ops-nm@ietf.org, aaa-doctors@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , IETF MIBs , iesg@ietf.org, nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, ops-area@ietf.org Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Re: [IETFMIBS] Updated OPS Area meetings agenda X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org With regard to the MIB and XML stuff on the agenda, I would like to point out: http://www.muonics.com/XMLSMI/Schema/XML-SMI-2.1.xsd And examples: http://www.muonics.com/XMLSMI/samples/rfc3411.xml http://www.muonics.com/XMLSMI/samples/rfc3418.xml http://www.muonics.com/XMLSMI/samples/rfc2578.xml http://www.muonics.com/XMLSMI/samples/rfc2579.xml -- Michael Kirkham President & CEO Muonics, Inc. http://www.muonics.com/ On Sun, 18 Mar 2007, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:35:07 +0200 > From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" > To: ops-area@ietf.org, ops-nm@ietf.org, > "MIB Doctors (E-mail)" , > IETF MIBs , aaa-doctors@ietf.org, > nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de > Cc: iesg@ietf.org > Subject: [IETFMIBS] Updated OPS Area meetings agenda > > > > An updated version of the agenda of the OPS area open meetings is > available at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/agenda/opsarea.txt. > > See you all there on Monday and Wednesday. > > David, Dan and Ron > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IETFMIBS mailing list > IETFMIBS@lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietfmibs > _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 27 09:03:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKP-0002cd-4n; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKN-0002bm-7r; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKK-0000I7-Jc; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.105.51]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2007 09:05:31 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,334,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="69316878:sNHT28818552" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:02:21 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Minutes of the OPS Area open meetings in Prague - draft 1 Thread-Index: AcdwcCfEZyJt5bMOTaeTKpD3N4xYIQ== From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: , , , "IETF MIBs" , , X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b045c2b078f76b9f842d469de8a32de3 Cc: Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Minutes of the OPS Area open meetings in Prague - draft 1 X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Please find below a draft of the OPS area open meeting. I am still = missing notes from the 3/19 session, so corrections and additions are = welcome, including your own comments if you were at mic. =20 Dan Meeting 1 - Monday March 19, 2007 15:20 to 17:20=20 1. Meeting Administrivia 2. Introduction of new Area Director - Ron Bonica=20 Dan - thanking David Kessens for his years of service as Area Director 3. Mini-BOF A: - Manageability and Operational Guidelines - David = Harrington=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-1.ppt Discussions about the structure of the document - should the protocol = evaluation be part of the document?=20 4. Mini-BOF B: COPS push mode policy configuration - Tom Taylor and Tina = Tsou =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-3.ppt Bert Wijnen - to what extent is COPS used in the industry today?=20 straw poll if interest - who would be interested in this work - a few Should it be standards track? - the authors would like it so. The ITU-T = is using a few protocols including DIAMETER and COPS from the IETF that = require some extensions.=20 Action item - Tom to address the ops-area list with query to determine = status of implementation and deployment of COPS and COPS-PR and level of = interest in participating in such a work 5. Mini-BOF C: Best Current Practices in Operations and Management - = David Harrington =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-2.ppt Proposal to create operation capabilities working group, modeled on the = experience of opsec WG Would bring in operators experience Framework document and operational guidelines as principal output Is opsec a success story?=20 Straw poll indicates interest - continue discussion after the next item 6. Improved Efficiency of the OPS Area - proposal for the formation of a = OPS Area WG - ADs=20 David and Dan - create structure for OPS area, similar to the one = existing in TSV and Routing Should it be merged with OPS and management capabilities WG as suggested = by David H.?=20 TSV chair - success in Transport due to multiple small items, no = dominant item Straw poll indicates interest - nobody believes it's a bad idea, = continue discussions in net meeting 7. Open Microphone=20 Meeting 2 - Wednesday March 21, 2007 - 13:00 to 16:10=20 1. Meeting Administrivia ADs (total: 5 min)=20 2. Mini-BOF D: NE/facilities/lines/protocols/services data modeling - = Michael Alexander=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-4.ppt Scott Bradner - very complex, IETF not good history in this type of = thing Pekka - benefit would go to NMS vendors? response - benefit to equipment vendors to get devices into NMSs Pekka - simpler version may be helpful, clean terminology would be = helpful potential but current scope too big, maybe more fit to the IRTF Margret Wassermann - interesting, but what gets standardized? response - focus on meta models only xx - sim (info model) underway for 4 years - achieved meta view, now = time to distribute to groups to use response - this proposal is much simpler than sim Chair: suggest create list & discuss issues raised in meeting, only one = opposed 3. MIB-Doctor-sponsored MIB-document-writing template: David Harrington=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-8.ppt No discussions 4. Mini-BOF E: MIB module editing in XML : Emile Stephan =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-5.ppt Sharon - do you actually have tools to translate XML to MIBs? response - I'm proposing to edit the MIB in XML and use XSL = transformation. Sharon - do you do SMI verification? Emile: Shows that the tool captures mistakes. Bill Fenner - wrong way to model MIB in XML - better to have element = that is syntax or XML schema for writing a MIB response - I'm using XML in a very loose way, but this is better than = nothing. Please make better proposal. Juergen - The opening argument in the beginning you wanted to move to = data model. The main issue is not syntactic problem to get there. response - I asked for a BOF in order to discuss and have proposals of = how to move forward chair - does not feel that it's a standards problem at this time but = maybe should be discussed with tools people 5. Mini-BOF F: Japanese Data Model Standards: Tomoyuki Iijima=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-6.ppt - proposed goal for NGO Sharon - why select VLANs? response - well used technology in enterprise space chair - MIB modules are used for VLAN config in enterprises - good to = see comparison between SNMP & netconf=20 chair - In Chicago we will have one or two BOFs for data modeling. This = contribution belongs to this space. Encourage to continue the work, = update the I-D and bring proposals to the NGO work. 6. Mini-BOF G: OWL techniques for MIB to XML documents and schema = translation - Bob Natale=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-7.ppt Andy Bierman - there are issues beyond mere translations - suggests that = experts in a protocol would need to be involved in determining if = conversion can even be done Scott Bradner - how fill in holes (beyond what MIB covers) bob - would need to have collaborative process for each MIB =09 chair - good to invite WS-CIM folk to join discussion Sharon xx - may be mismatch between MIBs and service-orientated = interface - also may be too high a data bandwidth generated for SOA/WS = management stations Bob - yes an issue Sharon - how much interest in WS community Bob - much need among user & developer communities=20 Dan Romascanu (from floor) - not sure that this fits the base role of = the IETF - make net work better Bob - this will help the operators run the network better Eugene - spent years in WS area - high level seems to be good - but WS = seems to rely on different fundamental information needs than what is in = MIBs - also some groups in this area do not like each other (OAIS & = DMTF for example). The other is political. Are the two standard bodies = can really work together in the long term? xx - good idea & he is optimistic that this would be useful - but there = are valid concerns about level of impact on the other communities chair - open list for discussion, consensus in the room 7. Late Submission - requirements to tunneling protocols OAM - KIKUCHI = Yutaka=20 Pekka - why is this tunnel specific? Only reordering is response - Our main objective is to measure tunnel quality. Chair - Maybe the next version of the draft you may need to better = clarify what is tunnel quality, to emphasis the difference between = interface and tunnel interface Scott Bradner - if you prepend seq # you change packet size you may have = to fragment Response - I used GRE sequence number (32 bits). Good, if you prepend = sequence number you may get into segmentation situation. chair -We'll continue to discuss this on the list, gauge interest and = answer the questions. I forwarded this to IPPM and benchmarking WG. Tries to sense the interest in the room: 4-5 hands. Is this not = relevant? None 8. Open microphone =20 Margaret: The topics today were interesting. But interesting is not good = enough. We have really bad history of trying to standardize management = approaches that were not really needed by service providers. We much = work only on what users really need. Dan: We split the OPS session to two days. Today's is more the 'new' issues. We need more feedback from operators. Work in the past lead to = NETCONF etc. Dave K.: We haven't allowed BOFs for the last few IETF being strict to = ensure that ideas that are not really required will not go forward. However we felt that we may miss some good ideas from going forward. Bob: To answer Margaret. I wanted to stress in my presentation that = there are operators and users that need the data models. What do you = want that shows this need. Margaret: I want them to be here and participate. If we don' t have = multiple sources of input. David Partain: I'd like to address Margaret point. There has been a lot = of discussions on data modeling. This is a real problem, since everyone = wants to use NETCOM but there is not any data models. Our users want = NETCONF. I think this is fair to characterizing it as real need. Margeret: Are you the customer of the data model David: Me and my customer. Ron B.: Maybe we should go to the operators and ask what are the most = critical problems and start from that, i.e. solve this first. When he = was a operator he would not have seen the issue as a lack of a data = model - rather why does pager go off - should keep doing this kind of = thing but should try to get closer to user=E2=80=99s actual perceived = needs Andy: I don't believe it is possible to have a protocol independent data = model. We don't have the expertise in web verbs etc. You should do the = work. I agree with Scott that we don't have a way to fill in the holes. Dave H: Addressing Margaret point. I'm going to have a workgroup meeting = to understand their needs. Are there any operators in the rooms? ~ 5 = hands. on Monday he proposed an ops nm WG to get operators involved - = looking for volunteers to help ops area better understand operator = needs, also - operations & managements guidelines doc - also ooking for = volunteers for that Bob: We might have minimum basic requirements for conversion of MIBs. = But most MIBs should be map-able. Dave K.: Is the experiment with the mini-BOF useful? Around 30 hands Who thinks this is not useful? None Dan: Regarding Dave H suggestion for two working groups, I suggest that = we unite it into one working group. Dave H: I think these are two different problems and should be done by = two different contributor groups. Protocol designers and Operators. Dan: I agree, but work generates feedback and input generates work. My = concern that split of resources and that there will not be enough = interest if we split it to two. Dave K: From the operator part we don't want to be too lonely=85 The = important thing is to have a good charter for the working group. Ron B: New WG chair. Applause to Dave K. I work for Juniper. I was an = operator in the VBNS network. Looking forward to work with you all. =20 _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors From aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 08:20:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWtcQ-0000BJ-83; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:20:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWtcO-00009p-HE; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:20:40 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWtcM-0000zj-Op; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:20:40 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.105.51]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2007 08:23:42 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,346,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="70312283:sNHT18550938" Received: from 300216erh2.post.avaya.com ([198.152.7.49]) by IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:03:25 +0200 Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by 300216erh2.post.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.8/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l2RD2hjf000420 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 07:03:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([156.154.16.145]) by de307622-de-ieremea.avaya.com with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2007 09:03:22 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKP-0002cd-5Q; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKN-0002bm-7r; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100] helo=co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWBKK-0000I7-Jc; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.105.51]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2007 09:05:31 -0400 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:19:54 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Minutes of the OPS Area open meetings in Prague - draft 2 Thread-Index: AcdwcCfEZyJt5bMOTaeTKpD3N4xYIQ== From: "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" To: , , , "IETF MIBs" , , X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 249cd1efd3d5e0d09114abe826a41235 Cc: Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Minutes of the OPS Area open meetings in Prague - draft 2 X-BeenThere: aaa-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: AAA Doctors E-mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: aaa-doctors-bounces@ietf.org I have included notes taken by Dave Harrington at the first meeting.=20 I would welcome more comments and corrections before we turn these into = the official version.=20 Dan -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Meeting 1 - Monday March 19, 2007 15:20 to 17:20=20 1. Meeting Administrivia 2. Introduction of new Area Director - Ron Bonica=20 Dan - thanking David Kessens for his years of service as Area Director 3. Mini-BOF A: - Manageability and Operational Guidelines - David = Harrington=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-1.ppt Discussions about the structure of the document - should the protocol = evaluation be part of the document?=20 4. Mini-BOF B: COPS push mode policy configuration - Tom Taylor and Tina = Tsou =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-3.ppt Sharon Chisholm: why COPS? because COPS is (apparently) going away=20 Unidentified : working at the ITU-T, still some interest=20 Kevin Johnson: in the draft, not quite clear if a new message was used. Tom: draft proposes a new message but could also use a flag, which is = the less violent solution. Discussion of the collision of handles Dbh: there are two questions to answer. question 1: is COPS going away? Worth it? Little update in the industry. = Should this be part of the manageability work (his mini-BOF)? Should we = move COPS to experimental or not recommended? question 2: technical = decision whether change is the right one? Scott Bradner: Answer Dave's first question. some enthusiasm for COPS at = the beginning, then faded away. Interest in ITU. The ITU-T is using a = few protocols including DIAMETER and COPS from the IETF that require = some extensions. If another non-IETF group wants to use COPS, why stand = in their way? Dave: "I can agree with that; somebody once said that the IETF doesn't = produce standards, but technologies; other organizations produce = standards" Dan (to Tom): what is your preferred solution?=20 Tom: A standard document with the COPS update . ITU and IETF would = progress this in parallel (approve in ITU-T as an annex), and then have = IETF (tweak and) approve it, and then update ITU-T to reference the RFC. Scott: This parallel approach has been problematic in the past. It = should either be done in ITU or in IETF, but not both. Tina: I think this can be done Dan: another approach is that the ITU-T can publish an Informational = document. I do not want to take a position at this point. ITU should = also consider what happens Dave Partain: I think there will be little energy to do this in the = IETF, so it should be done in ITU. Bert: I do not know if COPS-PR is being used or not; I know I do not = want to spend time working on COPS-PR. Is anybody interested in working = on it (including review any work done by ITU?) Tom: Does anybody work for an organization that uses COPS-PR?=20 One person raised their hands (Tina Tsou from Huawei) Tom: Is there any interest in working on COPS-PR extensions?=20 Dan: these questions should be asked on the OPS lists and ITU lists. Should it be standards track? - the authors would like it so.=20 Action item - Tom to address the ops-area list with query to determine = status of implementation and deployment of COPS and COPS-PR and level of = interest in participating in such a work 5. Mini-BOF C: Best Current Practices in Operations and Management - = David Harrington =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-2.ppt Proposal to create operation capabilities working group, modeled on the = experience of opsec WG Would bring in operators experience Framework document and operational guidelines as principal output Is opsec a success story?=20 Straw poll indicates interest - continue discussion after the next item 6. Improved Efficiency of the OPS Area - proposal for the formation of a = OPS Area WG - ADs=20 David and Dan - create structure for OPS area, similar to the one = existing in TSV and Routing Should it be merged with OPS and management capabilities WG as suggested = by David H.?=20 TSV chair - success in Transport due to multiple small items, no = dominant item Straw poll indicates interest - nobody believes it's a bad idea, = continue discussions in net meeting 7. Open Microphone=20 Meeting 2 - Wednesday March 21, 2007 - 13:00 to 16:10=20 1. Meeting Administrivia ADs (total: 5 min)=20 2. Mini-BOF D: NE/facilities/lines/protocols/services data modeling - = Michael Alexander=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-4.ppt Scott Bradner - very complex, IETF not good history in this type of = thing Pekka - benefit would go to NMS vendors? response - benefit to equipment vendors to get devices into NMSs Pekka - simpler version may be helpful, clean terminology would be = helpful potential but current scope too big, maybe more fit to the IRTF Margret Wassermann - interesting, but what gets standardized? response - focus on meta models only xx - sim (info model) underway for 4 years - achieved meta view, now = time to distribute to groups to use response - this proposal is much simpler than sim Chair: suggest create list & discuss issues raised in meeting, only one = opposed 3. MIB-Doctor-sponsored MIB-document-writing template: David Harrington=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-8.ppt No discussions 4. Mini-BOF E: MIB module editing in XML : Emile Stephan =20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-5.ppt Sharon - do you actually have tools to translate XML to MIBs? response - I'm proposing to edit the MIB in XML and use XSL = transformation. Sharon - do you do SMI verification? Emile: Shows that the tool captures mistakes. Bill Fenner - wrong way to model MIB in XML - better to have element = that is syntax or XML schema for writing a MIB response - I'm using XML in a very loose way, but this is better than = nothing. Please make better proposal. Juergen - The opening argument in the beginning you wanted to move to = data model. The main issue is not syntactic problem to get there. response - I asked for a BOF in order to discuss and have proposals of = how to move forward chair - does not feel that it's a standards problem at this time but = maybe should be discussed with tools people 5. Mini-BOF F: Japanese Data Model Standards: Tomoyuki Iijima=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-6.ppt - proposed goal for NGO Sharon - why select VLANs? response - well used technology in enterprise space chair - MIB modules are used for VLAN config in enterprises - good to = see comparison between SNMP & netconf=20 chair - In Chicago we will have one or two BOFs for data modeling. This = contribution belongs to this space. Encourage to continue the work, = update the I-D and bring proposals to the NGO work. 6. Mini-BOF G: OWL techniques for MIB to XML documents and schema = translation - Bob Natale=20 http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/opsarea-7.ppt Andy Bierman - there are issues beyond mere translations - suggests that = experts in a protocol would need to be involved in determining if = conversion can even be done Scott Bradner - how fill in holes (beyond what MIB covers) bob - would need to have collaborative process for each MIB =09 chair - good to invite WS-CIM folk to join discussion Sharon xx - may be mismatch between MIBs and service-orientated = interface - also may be too high a data bandwidth generated for SOA/WS = management stations Bob - yes an issue Sharon - how much interest in WS community Bob - much need among user & developer communities=20 Dan Romascanu (from floor) - not sure that this fits the base role of = the IETF - make net work better Bob - this will help the operators run the network better Eugene - spent years in WS area - high level seems to be good - but WS = seems to rely on different fundamental information needs than what is in = MIBs - also some groups in this area do not like each other (OAIS & = DMTF for example). The other is political. Are the two standard bodies = can really work together in the long term? xx - good idea & he is optimistic that this would be useful - but there = are valid concerns about level of impact on the other communities chair - open list for discussion, consensus in the room 7. Late Submission - requirements to tunneling protocols OAM - KIKUCHI = Yutaka=20 Pekka - why is this tunnel specific? Only reordering is response - Our main objective is to measure tunnel quality. Chair - Maybe the next version of the draft you may need to better = clarify what is tunnel quality, to emphasis the difference between = interface and tunnel interface Scott Bradner - if you prepend seq # you change packet size you may have = to fragment Response - I used GRE sequence number (32 bits). Good, if you prepend = sequence number you may get into segmentation situation. chair -We'll continue to discuss this on the list, gauge interest and = answer the questions. I forwarded this to IPPM and benchmarking WG. Tries to sense the interest in the room: 4-5 hands. Is this not = relevant? None 8. Open microphone =20 Margaret: The topics today were interesting. But interesting is not good = enough. We have really bad history of trying to standardize management = approaches that were not really needed by service providers. We much = work only on what users really need. Dan: We split the OPS session to two days. Today's is more the 'new' issues. We need more feedback from operators. Work in the past lead to = NETCONF etc. Dave K.: We haven't allowed BOFs for the last few IETF being strict to = ensure that ideas that are not really required will not go forward. However we felt that we may miss some good ideas from going forward. Bob: To answer Margaret. I wanted to stress in my presentation that = there are operators and users that need the data models. What do you = want that shows this need. Margaret: I want them to be here and participate. If we don' t have = multiple sources of input. David Partain: I'd like to address Margaret point. There has been a lot = of discussions on data modeling. This is a real problem, since everyone = wants to use NETCOM but there is not any data models. Our users want = NETCONF. I think this is fair to characterizing it as real need. Margeret: Are you the customer of the data model David: Me and my customer. Ron B.: Maybe we should go to the operators and ask what are the most = critical problems and start from that, i.e. solve this first. When he = was a operator he would not have seen the issue as a lack of a data = model - rather why does pager go off - should keep doing this kind of = thing but should try to get closer to user=E2=80=99s actual perceived = needs Andy: I don't believe it is possible to have a protocol independent data = model. We don't have the expertise in web verbs etc. You should do the = work. I agree with Scott that we don't have a way to fill in the holes. Dave H: Addressing Margaret point. I'm going to have a workgroup meeting = to understand their needs. Are there any operators in the rooms? ~ 5 = hands. on Monday he proposed an ops nm WG to get operators involved - = looking for volunteers to help ops area better understand operator = needs, also - operations & managements guidelines doc - also ooking for = volunteers for that Bob: We might have minimum basic requirements for conversion of MIBs. = But most MIBs should be map-able. Dave K.: Is the experiment with the mini-BOF useful? Around 30 hands Who thinks this is not useful? None Dan: Regarding Dave H suggestion for two working groups, I suggest that = we unite it into one working group. Dave H: I think these are two different problems and should be done by = two different contributor groups. Protocol designers and Operators. Dan: I agree, but work generates feedback and input generates work. My = concern that split of resources and that there will not be enough = interest if we split it to two. Dave K: From the operator part we don't want to be too lonely=85 The = important thing is to have a good charter for the working group. Ron B: New WG chair. Applause to Dave K. I work for Juniper. I was an = operator in the VBNS network. Looking forward to work with you all. _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors