Subject: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

From: Schendel Jens ICM Berlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:56:29 +0200

Hi all,

according to the following paragraph in section 8.20 of Diameter Credit Control Application Draft 04 
the server shall not combine tariff time change with time units. 

"  The tariff change mechanism is optional for client and server and it 
   is not used for unit type time, since the server has full control of 
   the time."

However, I do belief that such definition is based on the assumption that time supervision at the client side is done continuously. I am not sure whether this is really an applicable generic rule. Time unit charging may be based on a usage model (similar to volume accounting) rather than on a connection time model.
Example: Just the active download time ("data packets are flowing") of a "permanent" connection to a streaming server shall be counted (by client) and charged (by server). Here the server will have no chance to allocate time units used before and after tariff switch time correctly on its own.
 
I understand DCCA as charging framework for multiple service applications and underlying networks. Hence, I wonder if such restriction per definition is acceptable.
My suggestion were just to remove "and it is not used...".

I'd appreciate your views.

Jens

---

From: "Christopher Richards" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:34:06 -0500

Hello Jens,

Yes: I agree with your suggestion.

Regards,
Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: Schendel Jens ICM Berlin [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:56 AM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

Hi all,

according to the following paragraph in section 8.20 of Diameter Credit
Control Application Draft 04 
the server shall not combine tariff time change with time units. 

However, I do belief that such definition is based on the assumption that
time supervision at the client side is done continuously. I am not sure
whether this is really an applicable generic rule. Time unit charging may be
based on a usage model (similar to volume accounting) rather than on a
connection time model.
Example: Just the active download time ("data packets are flowing") of a
"permanent" connection to a streaming server shall be counted (by client)
and charged (by server). Here the server will have no chance to allocate
time units used before and after tariff switch time correctly on its own.
 
I understand DCCA as charging framework for multiple service applications
and underlying networks. Hence, I wonder if such restriction per definition
is acceptable. My suggestion were just to remove "and it is not used...".

Jens

---

From: "Stura Marco" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:31:37 +0300

Chris/Jens,

please note the definition in section 5, copied below

   For time based services the quota is consumed at the regular rate of
   60 seconds per minute, the server already knows at the time when
   credit resources are allocated how many units will be consumed before
   the tariff time change and how many units will be consumed after.
   Similarly, the server can determine the units consumed at the before
   rate and the units consumed at the rate afterwards in the event that
   the end-user closes the session before the consumption of the allotted
   quota.  There is no need for additional traffic between client and
   server in case of tariff time changes for time based service,
   therefore the tariff change mechanism is not used for time based
   services.

Actually this definition doesn't imply that tariff-time-change is not used
with unit type time, rather it is not used with time based services (i.e.
those that consume at regular rate of 60 seconds per minute).
The usage model you are thinking of it doesn't match the above definition,
therefore the restriction doesn't apply.

But yes, there is an inconsistence with section 8.20 that we forgot to 
update
already in draft 03. The paragraph you are referring to, should read

   The tariff change mechanism is optional for client and server and it
   is not used for time based services as defined in section 5.

We'll certainly update this together with other comments received by the AD.

Regards
Marco

>From: "Christopher Richards" <[email-masked]>
>To: Schendel Jens ICM Berlin 
><[email-masked]>,"[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:34:06 -0500
>
>Hello Jens,
>

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---

From: "Christopher Richards" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:01:26 -0500

Thanks Marco,

Should we clarify section 5 in addition? As the text stands, it is not clear
that there are basically two types of time based quota.

FROM:-

TO:-

   For time based services where the quota is continuously consumed at the
regular rate of
   60 seconds per minute, the server already knows at the time when
   credit resources are allocated how many units will be consumed before
   the tariff time change and how many units will be consumed after.
   Similarly, the server can determine the units consumed at the before
   rate and the units consumed at the rate afterwards in the event that
   the end-user closes the session before the consumption of the allotted
   quota.  There is no need for additional traffic between client and
   server in case of tariff time changes for the continuous time based
service,
   therefore the tariff change mechanism is not used for continuous time
based
   services.

   For time based services where the quota is NOT continuously consumed at a
regular rate,
   the tariff change mechanism described for volume and event units MAY be
used. 

Regards,
Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stura Marco [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:32 PM
To: Richards, Christopher [RICH2:2Q40:EXCH]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

Chris/Jens,

Actually this definition doesn't imply that tariff-time-change is not used
with unit type time, rather it is not used with time based services (i.e.
those that consume at regular rate of 60 seconds per minute). The usage
model you are thinking of it doesn't match the above definition, therefore
the restriction doesn't apply.

Regards
Marco

>Control Application Draft 04 the server shall not combine tariff time 
>change with time units.
>
>However, I do belief that such definition is based on the assumption
>that time supervision at the client side is done continuously. I am not 
>sure whether this is really an applicable generic rule. Time unit 
>charging may be based on a usage model (similar to volume accounting) 
>rather than on a connection time model.
>I understand DCCA as charging framework for multiple service
>applications and underlying networks. Hence, I wonder if such 
>restriction per definition is acceptable. My suggestion were just to 
>remove "and it is not used...".
>

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:53:09 +0300

Hi Chris,
 
Should we clarify section 5 in addition? As the text stands, it is not clear that there are basically two types of time based quota.
 
I don't think we have two types of time based quota, rather we have some environment where time based
services may consist of two different models. In particular, data services may be charged based on connection
time where the quota is consumed at regular rate or based on the usage model where the time quota is 
consumed only when packets are flowing through. That is why we included the definition of time based services
in section 5. I think your proposed text enhancement to this definition certainly help to clarify the applicability
of the tariff change mechanism with respect to time based services.
 
Regards
Marco

   For time based services where the quota is continuously consumed at the regular rate of 
   60 seconds per minute, the server already knows at the time when 
   credit resources are allocated how many units will be consumed before 
   the tariff time change and how many units will be consumed after. 
   Similarly, the server can determine the units consumed at the before 
   rate and the units consumed at the rate afterwards in the event that 
   the end-user closes the session before the consumption of the allotted 
   quota.  There is no need for additional traffic between client and 
   server in case of tariff time changes for the continuous time based service, 
   therefore the tariff change mechanism is not used for continuous time based 
   services. For time based services where the quota is NOT continuously consumed  
   at a regular rate,  the tariff change mechanism described for volume and event units  
   MAY be used.

---

From: Schendel Jens ICM Berlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:43:35 +0200

Marco, Chris,
 
the textual enhancement as proposed by Chris sounds ok to me.
 
Regards, Jens

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Dienstag, 13. April 2004 09:53
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

Hi Chris,

 
Regards
Marco

---

From: "Christopher Richards" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:37:30 -0500

Thanks Marco,
 
So the text I proposed (at the end of the email) is OK and will be
incorporated into the document?

Cheers, 
Chris. 

Shasta Wireless Development 
Nortel Networks 

Telephone: 
+1 972 684 3281 
ESN 444 3281 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:53 AM
To: Richards, Christopher [RICH2:2Q40:EXCH]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit
time

Hi Chris,

I don't think we have two types of time based quota, rather we have some
environment where time based
services may consist of two different models. In particular, data services
may be charged based on connection
time where the quota is consumed at regular rate or based on the usage model
where the time quota is 
consumed only when packets are flowing through. That is why we included the
definition of time based services
in section 5. I think your proposed text enhancement to this definition
certainly help to clarify the applicability
of the tariff change mechanism with respect to time based services.
 
Regards
Marco

   services. For time based services where the quota is NOT continuously
consumed  
   at a regular rate,  the tariff change mechanism described for volume and
event units  
   MAY be used.

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:09:04 +0300

Hi Chris,
 
it works for me. If others will not object it will be incorporated.
 
Marco

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Christopher Richards [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 13 April, 2004 20:38
To: Stura Marco (Nokia-NET/Helsinki)
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

Thanks Marco,
 
So the text I proposed (at the end of the email) is OK and will be incorporated into the document?

Cheers, 
Chris. 

Telephone: 
+1 972 684 3281 
ESN 444 3281 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:53 AM
To: Richards, Christopher [RICH2:2Q40:EXCH]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: RE: [AAA-WG]: DCCA Draft 04: Tariff-Time-Change AVP for unit time

Hi Chris,

 
Regards
Marco