From nobody Fri May 2 01:40:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7270D1A0371 for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 01:40:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3QiWD85jqLPx for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 01:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4191A0439 for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 01:40:45 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79036d00000126a-07-53635a0a094a Received: from ESESSHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F6.48.04714.A0A53635; Fri, 2 May 2014 10:40:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC008.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 2 May 2014 10:40:42 +0200 From: =?windows-1254?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: "ace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: ACE pre-WG meeting Thread-Index: AQHPX5aq2nl1O2yRbUmKhf/QvGzt3psh6d4AgAsbWQA= Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 08:40:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <53522E5A49C9B84E84192A700F3B7BF1@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjS5XVHKwwY5XShbfv/UwOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY9fi00wFC+UqHsydzdrAuFaii5GTQ0LAROL2xOnsELaYxIV7 69m6GLk4hASOMkrcXtnEBOEsYpT4eP8dE0gVm4C7xJy9K1m6GDk4RAQUJa4/SgQxhQXkJbq3 B4BUiAgoSFzce5IJosJK4sM8NpAwi4CKxKkzG5hBbF4BC4nGtSdZQWwhgVSJLx8Og9mcQPGX c1vAbEagc76fWgO2lFlAXOLWk/lMEGcKSCzZc54ZwhaVePn4H1i9qICexLvjMDVKEo1LnrBC 9BpIHDl3E8q2lpj3/i07hK0tsWzha6h7BCVOznzCMoFRfBaSdbOQtM9C0j4LSfssJO0LGFlX MYoWpxYX56YbGeulFmUmFxfn5+nlpZZsYgTG1cEtv3V3MK5+7XiIUYCDUYmHt/hLZLAQa2JZ cWXuIUZpDhYlcd62u97BQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhiZLJb2CJmVP1MKUV7I bRI+MX73i4XWh5byn69Xa3jOGSOepffd/UXwmmNhxoWnQ/58Dprw1cz00Z3dXtyv9xzWPKLo c63lWjRXtvMOp8qI59nm4S1sEZdc1L/fSu5tKo6W4D3oJlnNPvP5Lf6sPRFbC9bYXBOz2nD4 UtrxORechOUeFvDsbVBiKc5INNRiLipOBAB6KXhtjAIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/R2Ddir4zz959F1W_H9hw6kt9O24 Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 08:40:47 -0000 Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and look into how the objectives can be achieved. - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover the extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular for long-distance travel. I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any other views on this? Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updated the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be sent out later.=20 As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in other way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the dates and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg Thanks G=F6ran On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=F6ran Selander" wrote: > >I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how it is >supposed to work.=20 > >Here is what I had in mind: > >1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. > >2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a more >detailed problem statement of ACE. With =B3more detailed problem statement= =B2 >I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes that a >solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto suite >should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round trips, >processing or caching requirements etc. > >The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet drafts, >or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. (There >will be at least one detailed input.) > >3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a more >detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. > >The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption that >people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things people >disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >agreement). But I don=B9t have a strong opinion about that. > >Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the intent >with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >discuss pictures on a white board, etc. > >What do you think about this? > > >G=F6ran > > > > >On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=F6ran Selander" wrote: > >> >>Hi all, >> >>As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in the >>charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem statement to >>be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >> >>The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has been >>aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. The >>purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - a >>more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >> >>A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for travel >>arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on the >>output. =20 >> >>One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises in >>Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>Arlanda and Bromma. >> >>For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >> >>http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >> >> >>Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as ACE is >>not a WG yet. >> >> >> >>G=F6ran >> >> >> > From nobody Sat May 3 02:41:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DB51A0056 for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 02:41:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RA_VlERl9kWX for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 02:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-x22c.google.com (mail-qa0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DDB1A005D for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 02:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id k15so5407515qaq.31 for ; Sat, 03 May 2014 02:41:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=p8P0P+S+XZP/xTsrttauoGhCC45k9v88bWJkczentFg=; b=tR6NT3ukvjJk2NplPAUsZNxuHMElVtj28t5tY3GMVm9uVB+I6/IryH1jOtEQdOXtHH rH4t5S5ujv1R9+F13sboM2YFo3FjAy0la2ufY7iWxbcRuPmTWJm3P4f350l43ZCjDJKq 2U0IzdqxASIhFijALbGWR8WXA6d1JZWhNG088oY6a35275yf3FanB8fINu48WQZqp6uq TXLVGGk1TBzSZU7nAIZbPPy7CvVHjFPSWhlat1aJQWcT6eUcU15LtqefG9uVIeeo3Y8B 0E+umHeYIe+4bXCPTvwhDQ9onjDIzpQQfNmmTUXS753zOyJINbkqSEmtbPJOpvTKMWU5 Q1jw== X-Received: by 10.140.37.9 with SMTP id q9mr7385630qgq.57.1399110108557; Sat, 03 May 2014 02:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from new-host.home (pool-100-0-26-24.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [100.0.26.24]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w101sm2324152qge.12.2014.05.03.02.41.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 03 May 2014 02:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Margaret Wasserman In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 05:32:26 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> References: To: =?windows-1254?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/eJUZSriHjAPjuZxLLo978lnGgPk Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 May 2014 09:41:53 -0000 I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. = Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. Thanks, Margaret On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=F6ran Selander = wrote: >=20 > Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: >=20 > - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and = look > into how the objectives can be achieved. >=20 > - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover = the > extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular = for > long-distance travel. >=20 > I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any > other views on this? >=20 > Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have = updated > the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be = sent > out later.=20 >=20 > As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in = other > way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the = dates > and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: >=20 > http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks > G=F6ran >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=F6ran Selander" = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how = it is >> supposed to work.=20 >>=20 >> Here is what I had in mind: >>=20 >> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. >>=20 >> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a = more >> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =B3more detailed problem = statement=B2 >> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes = that a >> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto = suite >> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round = trips, >> processing or caching requirements etc. >>=20 >> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet = drafts, >> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. = (There >> will be at least one detailed input.) >>=20 >> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a = more >> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. >>=20 >> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption = that >> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things = people >> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >> agreement). But I don=B9t have a strong opinion about that. >>=20 >> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the = intent >> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. >>=20 >> What do you think about this? >>=20 >>=20 >> G=F6ran >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=F6ran Selander" = wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in = the >>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem = statement to >>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >>>=20 >>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has = been >>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. = The >>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - = a >>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >>>=20 >>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for = travel >>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on = the >>> output. =20 >>>=20 >>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises = in >>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>> Arlanda and Bromma. >>>=20 >>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >>>=20 >>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as = ACE is >>> not a WG yet. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> G=F6ran >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Mon May 5 05:12:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70EC1A0317 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 05:12:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLN9AEMLifJb for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 05:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4D31A0314 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 05:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79036d00000126a-6a-53678018dce3 Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AA.C1.04714.81087635; Mon, 5 May 2014 14:12:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC016.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.66]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 5 May 2014 14:12:07 +0200 From: =?windows-1254?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: Margaret Wasserman Thread-Topic: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting Thread-Index: AQHPX5aq2nl1O2yRbUmKhf/QvGzt3psh6d4AgAsbWQCAAX9EAIADctAA Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 12:12:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.147] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja5EQ3qwQdsfTYvv33qYLR68mMfk wOSxc9Zddo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGX0TL/EWvBNq2L2grwGxrtKXYycHBICJhI7 1jxkgbDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwlFGi7+ViRghnEaPEk+cQVWwC7hJz9q4Esjk4RAT0JBovVYGE mQUUJdbN6WMCsYUFVCXezutnB7FFBNQkOh7uYYKw3SSOb/4FZrMIqEj0bH/LBmLzClhIzNlz D2rXcUaJtgdPwIo4BWwljl/fCWYzAl33/dQaJohl4hK3nsxngrhaQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/1hB bFGg294dB6nhAIorSUzbmgbRaiBx5NxNVgjbWuLxnJ3MELa2xLKFr5kh7hGUODnzCcsERolZ SLbNQtI+C0n7LCTts5C0L2BkXcUoWpxaXJybbmSsl1qUmVxcnJ+nl5dasokRGIUHt/zW3cG4 +rXjIUYBDkYlHt7iL5HBQqyJZcWVuYcYpTlYlMR52+56BwsJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9i ZOLglGpgdJlpVKJzdt3F2qdnxfYfaHuR/WTb31uu+1xaxUVbpku+npleZjM9ct3FOetb76rM Whz3XGih0kENh6jAipCP4udehS2SytyVVhny8tiUMoWbk5netO8ynb/C+4EZ+77wTd2NVz7M 2WD/TFU1Z73UZdbFHfZlj+rNA/NrOQ69uVEaMe3kTYZ925VYijMSDbWYi4oTAaaw+6KjAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/4Xjc0LoULsqVUPjciK2SxRdgp8M Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 12:12:20 -0000 Hi Margaret, Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a best effort conference phone. I am not sure I can guarantee the former, and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when we have a more structured agenda. Thanks G=F6ran On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" wrote: > >I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. >Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. > >Thanks, >Margaret > >On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=F6ran Selander >wrote: > >>=20 >> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: >>=20 >> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and look >> into how the objectives can be achieved. >>=20 >> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover >>the >> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular for >> long-distance travel. >>=20 >> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any >> other views on this? >>=20 >> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updated >> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be sent >> out later.=20 >>=20 >> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in other >> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the >>dates >> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: >>=20 >> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks >> G=F6ran >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=F6ran Selander" wrot= e: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how it >>>is >>> supposed to work. >>>=20 >>> Here is what I had in mind: >>>=20 >>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. >>>=20 >>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a >>>more >>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =B3more detailed problem >>>statement=B2 >>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes that >>>a >>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto >>>suite >>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round >>>trips, >>> processing or caching requirements etc. >>>=20 >>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet >>>drafts, >>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. >>>(There >>> will be at least one detailed input.) >>>=20 >>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a >>>more >>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. >>>=20 >>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption >>>that >>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things people >>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >>> agreement). But I don=B9t have a strong opinion about that. >>>=20 >>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the intent >>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. >>>=20 >>> What do you think about this? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> G=F6ran >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=F6ran Selander" >>>wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>>=20 >>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in the >>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem >>>>statement to >>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >>>>=20 >>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has been >>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. >>>>The >>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - a >>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >>>>=20 >>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for >>>>travel >>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on >>>>the >>>> output. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises in >>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>>> Arlanda and Bromma. >>>>=20 >>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >>>>=20 >>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as >>>>ACE is >>>> not a WG yet. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> G=F6ran >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ace mailing list >> Ace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > From nobody Mon May 5 06:04:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189531A0327 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1jc5SJa-FkDA for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com (mail-ie0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFB51A0326 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id lx4so8081884iec.9 for ; Mon, 05 May 2014 06:04:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q7aRQHbuzfiI88LfdAP4l9bVoTdkeubhF5cKEilmbKw=; b=JOVo5jI27LJor3BwYKG3hnnWUnTnpaZkes+VSAwbh6FAliPhV2wUHMzN75FRj49cvT /UDAo+qg1OQQ/8Sl4IkTBJTqgP4kxokgvBlZ7yYxUd4h1K581b/o0/m/ooXw1TmAWRM6 wwufTkW3fG7+DD81DTVbhHi7HJwBIFUkU86FblD1F94f8q5CdH++fRSoRRfiSrneDQkR ZtThYLHtstb2GNhQOAoyxzmt5cXw1k0i+1/xm9m0Bzs+6KBTP6Y7dg4l/WVHcNMxU/KS m06Vszk9xU4pcNKi4+1wcDg4OJUG62yPS5vUeM4LdMetsvvF4lb3YIQUIABcQFaJcoCB jL0g== X-Received: by 10.50.30.167 with SMTP id t7mr23213356igh.17.1399295049863; Mon, 05 May 2014 06:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.3.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h7sm27261832igy.2.2014.05.05.06.04.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 05 May 2014 06:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53678C42.1010402@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 09:04:02 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?windows-1254?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= , Margaret Wasserman References: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1254; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/7a1JRIeJYrKOVei3FBzj1zdVwik Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 13:04:15 -0000 Dear colleagues: If believed to be useful, I could organize meeting space for up to roughly 25 people, including white boards/flip charts, just prior to the IETF-90 meeting in Toronto (e.g., on Thursday and Friday). This should come at very limited cost (since I could leverage that this is in my home town). Obviously, this would only help people who have budget to come to IETF-90. Best regards, Rene On 5/5/2014 8:12 AM, Göran Selander wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge > since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured > discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over > phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the > meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a > best effort conference phone. I am not sure I can guarantee the former, > and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to > travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when > we have a more structured agenda. > > > Thanks > Göran > > > On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" wrote: > >> I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. >> Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. >> >> Thanks, >> Margaret >> >> On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Göran Selander >> wrote: >> >>> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: >>> >>> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and look >>> into how the objectives can be achieved. >>> >>> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover >>> the >>> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular for >>> long-distance travel. >>> >>> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any >>> other views on this? >>> >>> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updated >>> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be sent >>> out later. >>> >>> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in other >>> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the >>> dates >>> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: >>> >>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Göran >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/04/14 09:03, "Göran Selander" wrote: >>> >>>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how it >>>> is >>>> supposed to work. >>>> >>>> Here is what I had in mind: >>>> >>>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. >>>> >>>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a >>>> more >>>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With ³more detailed problem >>>> statement² >>>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes that >>>> a >>>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >>>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto >>>> suite >>>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round >>>> trips, >>>> processing or caching requirements etc. >>>> >>>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet >>>> drafts, >>>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. >>>> (There >>>> will be at least one detailed input.) >>>> >>>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a >>>> more >>>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. >>>> >>>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption >>>> that >>>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things people >>>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >>>> agreement). But I don¹t have a strong opinion about that. >>>> >>>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the intent >>>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >>>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. >>>> >>>> What do you think about this? >>>> >>>> >>>> Göran >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "Göran Selander" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in the >>>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem >>>>> statement to >>>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >>>>> >>>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has been >>>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. >>>>> The >>>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - a >>>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >>>>> >>>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for >>>>> travel >>>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on >>>>> the >>>>> output. >>>>> >>>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises in >>>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>>>> Arlanda and Bromma. >>>>> >>>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >>>>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as >>>>> ACE is >>>>> not a WG yet. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Göran >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ace mailing list >>> Ace@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 From nobody Mon May 5 06:16:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C964C1A00DF for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nYuzoIqc1PCx for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BDD1A007C for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 06:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f790e6d000001067-24-53678f1cd424 Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A6.CE.04199.C1F87635; Mon, 5 May 2014 15:16:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 5 May 2014 15:16:12 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: "ace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: ACE pre-WG meeting Stockholm June 2-3 Thread-Index: AQHPaGQukyKNJ29YDUCqtpfaTDxU5A== Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:16:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.147] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja5Mf3qwQcsjI4vv33qYHRg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV0XByNVvBEc6KDwt/MjUwnmfvYuTkkBAwkZi+6CYjhC0mceHe erYuRi4OIYGjjBJdV/pZIJxFjBITrnexgVSxCbhKHHjwjqmLkYNDREBR4vqjRJCwsIC+RMPK BrASEaChj3Z/YYew9SRufDrIClLOIqAisewQWAmvgIXErlXXwEoYgfZ+P7WGCcRmFhCXuPVk PhPEPQISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmKLAo18d3w+2AUSAkoS07amQbQCbZo6hQ3Ctpa4+xFiPLOA tsSyha+ZIdYKSpyc+YRlAqPoLCTbZiFpn4WkfRaS9llI2hcwsq5iFC1OLU7KTTcy0kstykwu Ls7P08tLLdnECIyTg1t+G+xgfPnc8RCjAAejEg9v8ZfIYCHWxLLiytxDjNIcLErivN/OugcL CaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYGxqjfB2tDGPO7yq8Gfzr/N/3cLnnZvx7XaR0peL e0LXdabkK4gtelFdGO2cb53IXHhPcpp2WXnGLduMFoY/q738I1lvqN1cb3Tuh/I3ixW1K2IY ZjK/rN6g9Mwy746a5clfToweXaorZsdyHJ0om5j+O+2NQ0OhoyhXzOGFT//m6Hz9V12dpsRS nJFoqMVcVJwIALdK/PF0AgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/Ngcv0WFA0tHDhLA6F_UZ1bAXtZ0 Subject: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting Stockholm June 2-3 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 13:16:19 -0000 Hi Thanks for showing interest in the ACE pre-WG meeting. It seems a two-day meeting June 2-3 is best to get as much parties as possible represented. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Time: Monday 2nd June 09.00 - Tuesday 3rd June 17.00 Location: Kista, Stockholm, Sweden (Adress: TBD, meeting room on Ericsson premises) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D If you have not filled in the Doodle but want to join, please let me know. If you did fill in the Doodle and confirmed interest for June 2-3, and now (or later) know that you will NOT participate, please let me know. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Practical details for travel arrangements =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Airports: Arlanda is the main airport and convenient for accessing Kista and downtown Stockholm. Bromma is close to both Kista and downtown Stockholm. Skavsta is 1.5 hours south of the city and further 0.5 hours to Kista. Lodging: downtown Stockholm has some beautiful spots while Kista has none, so if possible try to find some place downtown. Social dinner (at own expense) in the evening on the 2nd will be downtown. I can come back with some details on hotels if someone requests. Welcome! G=F6ran From nobody Mon May 5 08:44:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07B51A03CD for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:44:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SRaD9AovyaH5 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com (mail-lb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004271A0298 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id q8so2986836lbi.27 for ; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=umcMycIQXFjpDQwRGHLnvgZE7wNrko7VWyuYzzrTvfA=; b=PJchoy8Wq7h6w/jXusBB3jNyvXJWcOoxTfwhf9Qmj+m1GaRTt8DGsQgO7eBtz/MoX/ xscREguzpj3I5PRz2ysHRlLDYBKwkx9pKHY0RJWPd7l+m1CDy4hxT+gklw+pqvJZGTvg g7iH9yr8xOqg9sVeckBz8LIPdp2074nDH/BTbEc7kdQtCENHVfuUSiU+1pYfnGXwycvD F1S8ZOEA4WeBnv+SZejvj1FCGX3+irHUwUz8rmkqFXjwpSguVTjxoD0TjLuacQuV86gQ Y369tpyr/yQcUvUuvLnAcduLIS/Hl+3aFBy6ZuWrEMaBOq6j5JLkuo13aSiY72Mag1v2 7KxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.234.229 with SMTP id uh5mr1828341lac.56.1399304675658; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.70.165 with HTTP; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53678C42.1010402@gmail.com> References: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> <53678C42.1010402@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 10:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Rene Struik Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133a6fa200ead04f8a90234 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/3ORkSXF7h_FQPrRMJVinYPZdIUY Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= , Margaret Wasserman , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 15:44:43 -0000 --001a1133a6fa200ead04f8a90234 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rene, there is IEEE Plenary the week before IETF 90. Behcet On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Rene Struik wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > If believed to be useful, I could organize meeting space for up to roughl= y > 25 people, including white boards/flip charts, just prior to the IETF-90 > meeting in Toronto (e.g., on Thursday and Friday). This should come at ve= ry > limited cost (since I could leverage that this is in my home town). > Obviously, this would only help people who have budget to come to IETF-90= . > > Best regards, Rene > > > On 5/5/2014 8:12 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander wrote: > >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge >> since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured >> discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over >> phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the >> meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a >> best effort conference phone. I am not sure I can guarantee the former, >> and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to >> travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this wh= en >> we have a more structured agenda. >> >> >> Thanks >> G=C3=B6ran >> >> >> On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" wrote: >> >> I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. >>> Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Margaret >>> >>> On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander >>> wrote: >>> >>> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: >>>> >>>> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and lo= ok >>>> into how the objectives can be achieved. >>>> >>>> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover >>>> the >>>> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular f= or >>>> long-distance travel. >>>> >>>> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any >>>> other views on this? >>>> >>>> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updat= ed >>>> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be se= nt >>>> out later. >>>> >>>> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in oth= er >>>> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the >>>> dates >>>> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: >>>> >>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> G=C3=B6ran >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how i= t >>>>> is >>>>> supposed to work. >>>>> >>>>> Here is what I had in mind: >>>>> >>>>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. >>>>> >>>>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a >>>>> more >>>>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =C2=B3more detailed problem >>>>> statement=C2=B2 >>>>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes tha= t >>>>> a >>>>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >>>>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto >>>>> suite >>>>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round >>>>> trips, >>>>> processing or caching requirements etc. >>>>> >>>>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet >>>>> drafts, >>>>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. >>>>> (There >>>>> will be at least one detailed input.) >>>>> >>>>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a >>>>> more >>>>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. >>>>> >>>>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption >>>>> that >>>>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things peop= le >>>>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >>>>> agreement). But I don=C2=B9t have a strong opinion about that. >>>>> >>>>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the inten= t >>>>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >>>>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. >>>>> >>>>> What do you think about this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> G=C3=B6ran >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in th= e >>>>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>>>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem >>>>>> statement to >>>>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >>>>>> >>>>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has bee= n >>>>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>>>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. >>>>>> The >>>>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce -= a >>>>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >>>>>> >>>>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for >>>>>> travel >>>>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on >>>>>> the >>>>>> output. >>>>>> >>>>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises i= n >>>>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>>>>> Arlanda and Bromma. >>>>>> >>>>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as >>>>>> ACE is >>>>>> not a WG yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> G=C3=B6ran >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ace mailing list >>>> Ace@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Ace mailing list >> Ace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace >> > > > -- > email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --001a1133a6fa200ead04f8a90234 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rene, there is IEEE Plenary the week before IETF 90.<= br>
Behcet


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Rene Struik <rstruik.= ext@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear colleagues:

If believed to be useful, I could organize meeting space for up to roughly = 25 people, including white boards/flip charts, just prior to the IETF-90 me= eting in Toronto (e.g., on Thursday and Friday). This should come at very l= imited cost (since I could leverage that this is in my home town). Obviousl= y, this would only help people who have budget to come to IETF-90.

Best regards, Rene


On 5/5/2014 8:12 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander wrote:
Hi Margaret,

Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge
since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured
discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over
phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the
meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a best effort conference phone. =C2=A0I am not sure I can guarantee the forme= r,
and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to
travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when<= br> we have a more structured agenda.


Thanks
G=C3=B6ran


On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" <margaretw42@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting.
Will there be any arrangements for remote participation.

Thanks,
Margaret

On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com&g= t;
wrote:

Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback:

- Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and look into how the objectives can be achieved.

- Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover
the
extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular for long-distance travel.

I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any
other views on this?

Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updated the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be sent out later.

As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in other way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the
dates
and get started with travel and meeting arrangements:

http://doo= dle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg



Thanks
G=C3=B6ran



On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com> wrote:

I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how it
is
supposed to work.

Here is what I had in mind:

1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks.

2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a
more
detailed problem statement of ACE. With =C2=B3more detailed problem
statement=C2=B2
I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes that
a
solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or
asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto
suite
should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round
trips,
processing or caching requirements etc.

The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet
drafts,
or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents.
(There
will be at least one detailed input.)

3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a
more
detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list.

The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption
that
people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things people
disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an
agreement). But I don=C2=B9t have a strong opinion about that.

Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the intent
with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and
discuss pictures on a white board, etc.

What do you think about this?


G=C3=B6ran




On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com>
wrote:

Hi all,

As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in the
charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case &
requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem
statement to
be able to evaluate candidate security protocols.

The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has been
aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a
positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto.
The
purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - a
more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work.

A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for
travel
arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on
the
output.

One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises in
Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports
Arlanda and Bromma.

For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP:

http://doo= dle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg


Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as
ACE is
not a WG yet.



G=C3=B6ran



_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace


--
email: rstruik.e= xt@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363=


_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--001a1133a6fa200ead04f8a90234-- From nobody Mon May 5 08:45:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398521A02BD for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:45:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iRDPfCniAzwx for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com (mail-la0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A6B1A0087 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id c6so658722lan.18 for ; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=62XJMzuMK0+2wqJdOR9wccqFUJb3tCzZPsUCvj3Q2YU=; b=uKg77CrjtJw9H4n4J34cv5y/Q5Im/1tPux0K+okkCleLUJXr21esw5usXR6HikkySF 6rmaWHZ6FIqvb1onfeCLENUW0WreMhLLBk06wCl91wphPE9jDrWOlLMfTZ4Dt1ZZkucJ 5TYY+449KCWdhq36WDZ1FlMJXXud34PQUq8Rf5gwyl2T80jLgsxbFB5MMiddPYfHv5Tu ohgoy+nShdNG9a8dTMMIZSdsBxdg63lo6FlYQstBCMPsRwtrvcVLjh/NyMvSsxPTBH8v 1d4CYCWe5FYk6oUSez9stcxYbfqRyO2v/k77gCyhMTkWmpNJMATxGETHIXvKIddKNJwW s3oQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.100.231 with SMTP id fb7mr1860876lbb.56.1399304746495; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.70.165 with HTTP; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 10:45:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135fbc258f94704f8a906ee Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/f2aOXIlNupVxadTJdFK-t90IFfI Cc: Margaret Wasserman , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 15:45:53 -0000 --001a1135fbc258f94704f8a906ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think this meeting should be held during IETF 90 in Toronto. Behcet On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:12 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge > since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured > discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over > phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the > meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a > best effort conference phone. I am not sure I can guarantee the former, > and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to > travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this whe= n > we have a more structured agenda. > > > Thanks > G=C3=B6ran > > > On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" wrote: > > > > >I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. > >Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. > > > >Thanks, > >Margaret > > > >On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander > >wrote: > > > >> > >> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: > >> > >> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and lo= ok > >> into how the objectives can be achieved. > >> > >> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover > >>the > >> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular f= or > >> long-distance travel. > >> > >> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any > >> other views on this? > >> > >> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updat= ed > >> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be se= nt > >> out later. > >> > >> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in oth= er > >> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the > >>dates > >> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: > >> > >> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> G=C3=B6ran > >> > >> > >> > >> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how i= t > >>>is > >>> supposed to work. > >>> > >>> Here is what I had in mind: > >>> > >>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. > >>> > >>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a > >>>more > >>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =C2=B3more detailed problem > >>>statement=C2=B2 > >>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes tha= t > >>>a > >>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or > >>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto > >>>suite > >>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round > >>>trips, > >>> processing or caching requirements etc. > >>> > >>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet > >>>drafts, > >>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. > >>>(There > >>> will be at least one detailed input.) > >>> > >>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a > >>>more > >>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. > >>> > >>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption > >>>that > >>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things peop= le > >>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an > >>> agreement). But I don=C2=B9t have a strong opinion about that. > >>> > >>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the inten= t > >>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and > >>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. > >>> > >>> What do you think about this? > >>> > >>> > >>> G=C3=B6ran > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in th= e > >>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & > >>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem > >>>>statement to > >>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. > >>>> > >>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has bee= n > >>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a > >>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. > >>>>The > >>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce -= a > >>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. > >>>> > >>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for > >>>>travel > >>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on > >>>>the > >>>> output. > >>>> > >>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises i= n > >>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports > >>>> Arlanda and Bromma. > >>>> > >>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: > >>>> > >>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as > >>>>ACE is > >>>> not a WG yet. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> G=C3=B6ran > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ace mailing list > >> Ace@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --001a1135fbc258f94704f8a906ee Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think this meeting should be held during IETF 90 in= Toronto.

Behcet


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:12 AM, G=C3=B6ran Seland= er <goran.selander@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Margaret,

Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge
since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured
discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over
phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the
meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a best effort conference phone. =C2=A0I am not sure I can guarantee the forme= r,
and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to
travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when<= br> we have a more structured agenda.


Thanks
G=C3=B6ran


On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" <margaretw42@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting.=
>Will there be any arrangements for remote participation.
>
>Thanks,
>Margaret
>
>On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=C3=B6ran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback:
>>
>> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement an= d look
>> into how the objectives can be achieved.
>>
>> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to co= ver
>>the
>> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particul= ar for
>> long-distance travel.
>>
>> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. = Any
>> other views on this?
>>
>> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have u= pdated
>> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will b= e sent
>> out later.
>>
>> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in= other
>> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix t= he
>>dates
>> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements:
>>
>> h= ttp://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> G=C3=B6ran
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com> wro= te:
>>
>>>
>>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting an= d how it
>>>is
>>> supposed to work.
>>>
>>> Here is what I had in mind:
>>>
>>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks= .
>>>
>>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals= of a
>>>more
>>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =C2=B3more detailed pr= oblem
>>>statement=C2=B2
>>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between no= des that
>>>a
>>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and= /or
>>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of cr= ypto
>>>suite
>>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, ro= und
>>>trips,
>>> processing or caching requirements etc.
>>>
>>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, inter= net
>>>drafts,
>>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documen= ts.
>>>(There
>>> will be at least one detailed input.)
>>>
>>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agre= e on a
>>>more
>>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE li= st.
>>>
>>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assum= ption
>>>that
>>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the thin= gs people
>>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming t= o an
>>> agreement). But I don=C2=B9t have a strong opinion about that.=
>>>
>>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but th= e intent
>>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, dra= w and
>>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc.
>>>
>>> What do you think about this?
>>>
>>>
>>> G=C3=B6ran
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=C3=B6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com>=
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previo= usly in the
>>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use c= ase &
>>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed probl= em
>>>>statement to
>>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols.
>>>>
>>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of A= CE has been
>>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussio= n I got a
>>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before= Toronto.
>>>>The
>>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully= produce - a
>>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the A= CE work.
>>>>
>>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to all= ow for
>>>>travel
>>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing draft= s based on
>>>>the
>>>> output.
>>>>
>>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson = premises in
>>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from= airports
>>>> Arlanda and Bromma.
>>>>
>>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doo= dle ASAP:
>>>>
>>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim mee= ting, as
>>>>ACE is
>>>> not a WG yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> G=C3=B6ran
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ace mailing list
>> Ace@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
>

_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--001a1135fbc258f94704f8a906ee-- From nobody Mon May 5 12:41:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9894B1A01B2 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 12:41:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8dKoRbon4Dj8 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 12:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA781A019A for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 12:41:34 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79106d0000013ca-1f-5367e96a8572 Received: from ESESSHC021.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 44.FE.05066.A69E7635; Mon, 5 May 2014 21:41:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC021.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 5 May 2014 21:41:29 +0200 From: =?windows-1254?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" Thread-Topic: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting Thread-Index: AQHPX5aq2nl1O2yRbUmKhf/QvGzt3psh6d4AgAsbWQCAAX9EAIADctAAgAAaKQCAAGNiAA== Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 19:41:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B33E640-4174-406D-A9D8-F2B77939297F@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.149] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CF8DB2A1118E6goranselanderericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprPIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7Wy/RggwXXlCy+f+thtpjde5rF gcnj6YSDTB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mp4Ou0ta8GPHsaK42eusjcwbi/vYuTkkBAw kfj86SQ7hC0mceHeerYuRi4OIYGjjBIvZv2DchYxStx82c4EUsUm4C4xZ+9KFhBbREBbYseh HYwgNrOAosS6OX1gNcICqhJv5/WzQ9SoSXQ83MMEYYdJ/DmwEMxmEVCRWPWuE6yGV8BC4tD2 uVDL9jJJbGj/ArSAg4NTIFDi0AMfkBpGoOu+n1rDBLFLXOLWk/lMEFcLSCzZc54ZwhaVePn4 HyuILSqgJ/HuOEyNksTaw9tZIHpjJf4dW8sKsVdQ4uTMJywTGMVmIRk7C0nZLCRlEHEDiSPn brJC2NoSyxa+Zoaw9SXmLdgAVWMt0XRgExuymgWMHKsYRYtTi4tz042M9FKLMpOLi/Pz9PJS SzYxAmP04JbfVjsYDz53PMQowMGoxMNbODk9WIg1say4MvcQozQHi5I476RF7sFCAumJJanZ qakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGNl4i+PetkdcWLaSJWxX8zyGxtkvHZyFLr6OOGfgohLgaX49 nE9XT2zX+qPz50v7JYckprDuL59bvcO7kEXVVD7V8ucXW+s3j4Otf6yNvPvDc+2uMJXdrJNX KC2XevZi4oxZi96d1g9ldt1+as+CzpyfDpuseqt2NH5nSHxeZOe42FzauOLXPyWW4oxEQy3m ouJEABZmh2CyAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/rsARLxptKzYd5erYBzoq_jBhyVw Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 19:41:37 -0000 --_000_CF8DB2A1118E6goranselanderericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Behcet, This is not a formal ACE WG meeting as ACE is not a WG yet. The purpose of = the meeting is to speed up the process by having an informal f2f discussion= and the result will be provided as input for the IETF meeting in Toronto (= or other pre-meetings). G=F6ran From: Behcet Sarikaya > Reply-To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" > Date: Monday 5 May 2014 17:45 To: G=F6ran Selander > Cc: Margaret Wasserman = >, "ace@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting I think this meeting should be held during IETF 90 in Toronto. Behcet On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:12 AM, G=F6ran Selander > wrote: Hi Margaret, Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a best effort conference phone. I am not sure I can guarantee the former, and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when we have a more structured agenda. Thanks G=F6ran On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" > wrote: > >I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting. >Will there be any arrangements for remote participation. > >Thanks, >Margaret > >On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=F6ran Selander > >wrote: > >> >> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback: >> >> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement and look >> into how the objectives can be achieved. >> >> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to cover >>the >> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particular for >> long-distance travel. >> >> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. Any >> other views on this? >> >> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have updated >> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will be sent >> out later. >> >> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in other >> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix the >>dates >> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements: >> >> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >> >> >> >> Thanks >> G=F6ran >> >> >> >> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=F6ran Selander" > wrote: >> >>> >>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting and how it >>>is >>> supposed to work. >>> >>> Here is what I had in mind: >>> >>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks. >>> >>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals of a >>>more >>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =B3more detailed problem >>>statement=B2 >>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between nodes that >>>a >>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and/or >>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of crypto >>>suite >>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, round >>>trips, >>> processing or caching requirements etc. >>> >>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, internet >>>drafts, >>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documents. >>>(There >>> will be at least one detailed input.) >>> >>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agree on a >>>more >>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE list. >>> >>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assumption >>>that >>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the things people >>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming to an >>> agreement). But I don=B9t have a strong opinion about that. >>> >>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but the intent >>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, draw and >>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc. >>> >>> What do you think about this? >>> >>> >>> G=F6ran >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=F6ran Selander" > >>>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previously in the >>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use case & >>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed problem >>>>statement to >>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols. >>>> >>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of ACE has been >>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussion I got a >>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before Toronto. >>>>The >>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully produce - a >>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the ACE work. >>>> >>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to allow for >>>>travel >>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing drafts based on >>>>the >>>> output. >>>> >>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson premises in >>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from airports >>>> Arlanda and Bromma. >>>> >>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doodle ASAP: >>>> >>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim meeting, as >>>>ACE is >>>> not a WG yet. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> G=F6ran >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ace mailing list >> Ace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > _______________________________________________ Ace mailing list Ace@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace --_000_CF8DB2A1118E6goranselanderericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1254" Content-ID: <76A6CFE7A0DBED4FB20AF1CF8F2B5A9D@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Behcet,

This is not a formal ACE WG meeting as ACE is not a WG yet. The purpos= e of the meeting is to speed up the process by having an informal f2f discu= ssion and the result will be provided as input for the IETF meeting in Toro= nto (or other pre-meetings).

G=F6ran

From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" <sarikaya@ieee.org>
Date: Monday 5 May 2014 17:45
To: G=F6ran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com> Cc: Margaret Wasserman <margaretw42@gmail.com>, "ace@ietf.org" <ace@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeti= ng

I think this meeting should be held during IETF 90 in Toronto.

Behcet


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:12 AM, G=F6ran Selander= <goran.= selander@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Margaret,

Thanks for showing interest. Remote participation could be a challenge
since one purpose of the exercise is allow for less structured
discussions, white-boarding etc. which may be difficult to follow over
phone. It is quite a different thing having the ambition to make the
meeting enjoyable also for remote participation compared to turning on a best effort conference phone.  I am not sure I can guarantee the forme= r,
and also would potentially give less to the people who have managed to
travel. Maybe there are other views on this? Let us come back to this when<= br> we have a more structured agenda.


Thanks
G=F6ran


On 03/05/14 11:32, "Margaret Wasserman" <margaretw42@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>I am not sure that I will be able to travel to Sweden for this meeting.=
>Will there be any arrangements for remote participation.
>
>Thanks,
>Margaret
>
>On May 2, 2014, at 4:40 AM, G=F6ran Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Update on the meeting, I got some more offline feedback:
>>
>> - Some people want to extend the scope beyond problem statement an= d look
>> into how the objectives can be achieved.
>>
>> - Some people thought that a single day meeting is too short to co= ver
>>the
>> extended scope and to motivate the travelling overhead in particul= ar for
>> long-distance travel.
>>
>> I am fine with such changes in scope and duration of the meeting. = Any
>> other views on this?
>>
>> Unless someone objects, let us aim for a two-day meeting. I have u= pdated
>> the doodle information accordingly. A draft agenda proposal will b= e sent
>> out later.
>>
>> As time is running, if you are interested but have not shown so in= other
>> way, please fill in the doodle as soon as possible so we can fix t= he
>>dates
>> and get started with travel and meeting arrangements:
>>
>> h= ttp://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> G=F6ran
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25/04/14 09:03, "G=F6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com> wrote:=
>>
>>>
>>> I got some questions offline about this f2f interim meeting an= d how it
>>>is
>>> supposed to work.
>>>
>>> Here is what I had in mind:
>>>
>>> 1. We try to fix a date for a 1-day meeting in about 5-6 weeks= .
>>>
>>> 2. Before this meeting, people are invited to submit proposals= of a
>>>more
>>> detailed problem statement of ACE. With =B3more detailed probl= em
>>>statement=B2
>>> I mean for example properties of security protocols between no= des that
>>>a
>>> solution should exhibit or support, e.g. whether symmetric and= /or
>>> asymmetric keys should be supported, whether negotiation of cr= ypto
>>>suite
>>> should be supported, support for intermittent connectivity, ro= und
>>>trips,
>>> processing or caching requirements etc.
>>>
>>> The input could be in the form of mails to the ACE list, inter= net
>>>drafts,
>>> or something in-between e.g. using some repository for documen= ts.
>>>(There
>>> will be at least one detailed input.)
>>>
>>> 3. We meet and discuss the different proposals and try to agre= e on a
>>>more
>>> detailed problem statement, and then report back to the ACE li= st.
>>>
>>> The reason for proposing a 1-day meeting is based on the assum= ption
>>>that
>>> people have read the inputs and we can go directly to the thin= gs people
>>> disagree on and hear the motivations (not necessarily coming t= o an
>>> agreement). But I don=B9t have a strong opinion about that. >>>
>>> Phone conference facilities could always be considered, but th= e intent
>>> with such a f2f meeting is to give a chance to brainstorm, dra= w and
>>> discuss pictures on a white board, etc.
>>>
>>> What do you think about this?
>>>
>>>
>>> G=F6ran
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/04/14 10:24, "G=F6ran Selander" <goran.selander@ericsson.com> >>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> As was noted in the tutorial session this week, and previo= usly in the
>>>> charter discussions, neither the ACE charter nor the use c= ase &
>>>> requirements document provides sufficiently detailed probl= em
>>>>statement to
>>>> be able to evaluate candidate security protocols.
>>>>
>>>> The option to meet face to face and discuss the scope of A= CE has been
>>>> aired on several occasions. In an recent offline discussio= n I got a
>>>> positive feedback about trying to arrange a meeting before= Toronto.
>>>>The
>>>> purpose of the meeting would be to discuss - and hopefully= produce - a
>>>> more detailed problem statement proposal as input to the A= CE work.
>>>>
>>>> A good time could be end-of-May / beginning-of-June to all= ow for
>>>>travel
>>>> arrangements and still leave enough time for editing draft= s based on
>>>>the
>>>> output.
>>>>
>>>> One possible location for this meeting is at the Ericsson = premises in
>>>> Kista out of Stockholm, Sweden. Kista is a short ride from= airports
>>>> Arlanda and Bromma.
>>>>
>>>> For those interested in attending, please fill in this Doo= dle ASAP:
>>>>
>>>> http://doodle.com/nw94ruh77fg3qvfg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please note that this would not be an official interim mee= ting, as
>>>>ACE is
>>>> not a WG yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> G=F6ran
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ace mailing list
>> Ace@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
>

_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

 --_000_CF8DB2A1118E6goranselanderericssoncom_-- From nobody Tue May 6 03:16:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DAFD1A038B for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 07:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vkWvPVeMODIN for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 07:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F541A0389 for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 07:18:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: ace@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140505141851.25124.13765.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 07:18:51 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/qZdXCwN6QSrfnFDXM3sobn0r20Y X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 May 2014 03:16:47 -0700 Subject: [Ace] State changed: charter-ietf-ace-00-00 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 14:18:53 -0000 State changed to Internal review. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ From nobody Tue May 13 02:01:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D861A07A4; Mon, 12 May 2014 16:20:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SMX3PZ1LejJ3; Mon, 12 May 2014 16:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB84D1A078C; Mon, 12 May 2014 16:20:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alissa Cooper" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140512232017.406.66404.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 16:20:17 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/71azwb6oDnCxqWDJlKmdIkzRxkU X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 May 2014 02:01:48 -0700 Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 23:20:19 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is some lack of clarity in this charter about whether the group wants to standardize One Solution to Rule them All, or multiple solutions. It sounds mostly like one solution, except for the paragraph that begins "Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used and re-applied ...." It would be good for the charter to clarify this. From nobody Tue May 13 04:37:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672081A0084; Tue, 13 May 2014 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ijdBWzELMQj; Tue, 13 May 2014 04:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2701A0080; Tue, 13 May 2014 04:37:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Adrian Farrel" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 04:37:51 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/lkW-_hxCyCu2iCFGx6denxJgPkE Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:37:53 -0000 Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-00: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Although I would prefer this to be written with fewer words, the charter text is basically OK. However, there are couple of things that need to clarified so I am raising a "Block". I hope we can sort this out with a few simple changes. This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to resources in constrained environments. There are several mentions of "resources" and "resource servers" in the text, but no clarity about what a resource is and what access to a resource means. Reading the charter I don't see clearly that this work is limited to specific protocols or specific places in the stack. I sense that the intention is not to work on all protocols in constrained environments but I don't think that is what the text actually says. I think that the intention is to limit the work to the applications protocols with their related transport protocols (withness CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS). Could this be called out more specifically? From nobody Tue May 13 09:40:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235191A0139; Tue, 13 May 2014 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MANGLED_SAVELE=2.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zq7woNvX107j; Tue, 13 May 2014 09:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1AC1A0135; Tue, 13 May 2014 09:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGS65550; Tue, 13 May 2014 16:40:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 17:39:24 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.35) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 17:39:57 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.158]) by SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:39:55 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Alissa Cooper , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHPbooJoNHAR/YW90OOLFwL7f2FdJs+tiZg Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:39:54 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B293FC@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140512232017.406.66404.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140512232017.406.66404.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.117.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/S7vet7OnJ3YDfVWPkZYdxTcAFQQ Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:40:23 -0000 PlRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWUgbGFjayBvZiBjbGFyaXR5IGluIHRoaXMgY2hhcnRlciBhYm91dCB3aGV0 aGVyIHRoZSBncm91cCB3YW50cyB0byBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZSBPbmUgU29sdXRpb24gdG8gUnVsZSB0 aGVtIEFsbCwgb3IgbXVsdGlwbGUgc29sdXRpb25zLiBJdCBzb3VuZHMgbW9zdGx5IGxpa2Ugb25l IHNvbHV0aW9uLCBleGNlcHQgZm9yIHRoZSBwYXJhZ3JhcGggdGhhdCBiZWdpbnMgIkV4aXN0aW5n IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWQg YW5kIHJlLWFwcGxpZWQgLi4uLiIgSXQgd291bGQgYmUgZ29vZCBmb3IgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgdG8g Y2xhcmlmeSB0aGlzLg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIGl0IGlzIGJldHRlciB0byBoYXZlIGp1c3Qgb25lIHNv bHV0aW9uLiBNYXliZSBpdCBjYW4ndCBzb2x2ZSBhbGwgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0sIGJ1dCBpdCBpbXBy b3ZlcyB0aGUgaW50ZXJvcGVyYWJpbGl0eS4gSWYgd2UgaGF2ZSBtdWx0aXBsZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMs IHdlIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IGlzc3Vlcy4NCg0KQWJvdXQgdGhlIHBhcmFn cmFwaCB5b3UgbWVudGlvbmVkLCBoZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgcHJvcG9zYWw6DQoNCk9MRA0K RXhpc3RpbmcgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIHdpbGwg YmUgdXNlZCBhbmQgcmUtYXBwbGllZCBmb3IgdXNlIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50 cyB3aGVyZSBhcHBsaWNhYmxlLiBUaGlzIHJlcXVpcmVzIHJlbGV2YW50IHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25z IHRvIGJlIHJldmlld2VkIGZvciBzdWl0YWJpbGl0eSwgc2VsZWN0aW5nIGEgc3Vic2V0IG9mIHRo ZW0gYW5kIHJlc3RyaWN0aW5nIHRoZSBvcHRpb25zIHdpdGhpbiBlYWNoIG9mIHRoZSBzcGVjaWZp Y2F0aW9ucy4gU29tZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5LCBob3dldmVyLCBtYXkgbm90IGJlIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSBpbiBleGlzdGluZyBwcm90b2NvbHMgYW5kIHRodXMgbmV3IHN0YW5kYXJkaXphdGlvbiBlZmZv cnRzIG1heSBiZSByZXF1aXJlZC4NCkxldmVyYWdpbmcgZXhpc3Rpbmcgd29yayBtZWFucyB0aGUg d29ya2luZyBncm91cCBiZW5lZml0cyBmcm9tIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBzZWN1cml0eSBhbmFseXNpcywg aW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24sIGFuZCBkZXBsb3ltZW50IGV4cGVyaWVuY2UuIE1vcmVvdmVyLCBhIHN0 YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgZmVkZXJhdGVkIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRo b3JpemF0aW9uIHdpbGwgaGVscCB0byBzdGltdWxhdGUgdGhlIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgb2YgY29uc3Ry YWluZWQgZGV2aWNlcyB0aGF0IHByb3ZpZGUgaW5jcmVhc2VkIHNlY3VyaXR5Lg0KDQpORVcNCkV4 aXN0aW5nIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aWxsIGJl IHVzZWQgd2hlcmUgYXBwbGljYWJsZSB0byBidWlsZCB0aGUgY29uc3RyYWluZWQtZW52aXJvbm1l bnQgc29sdXRpb24uIFRoaXMgcmVxdWlyZXMgcmVsZXZhbnQgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgdG8gYmUg cmV2aWV3ZWQgZm9yIHN1aXRhYmlsaXR5LCBzZWxlY3RpbmcgYSBzdWJzZXQgb2YgdGhlbSBhbmQg cmVzdHJpY3RpbmcgdGhlIG9wdGlvbnMgd2l0aGluIGVhY2ggb2YgdGhlIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25z LiBTb21lIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHksIGhvd2V2ZXIsIG1heSBub3QgYmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIGV4 aXN0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scywgaW4gd2hpY2ggY2FzZSB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gbWF5IGFsc28gaW52 b2x2ZSBuZXcgcHJvdG9jb2wgd29yay4gTGV2ZXJhZ2luZyBleGlzdGluZyB3b3JrIG1lYW5zIHRo ZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGJlbmVmaXRzIGZyb20gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFuYWx5c2lz LCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiwgYW5kIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgZXhwZXJpZW5jZS4gTW9yZW92ZXIsIGEg c3RhbmRhcmRpemVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvciBmZWRlcmF0ZWQgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1 dGhvcml6YXRpb24gd2lsbCBoZWxwIHRvIHN0aW11bGF0ZSB0aGUgZGVwbG95bWVudCBvZiBjb25z dHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2VzIHRoYXQgcHJvdmlkZSBpbmNyZWFzZWQgc2VjdXJpdHkuDQpFTkQNCg0K SG9wZSB0aGlzIGNsYXJpZmllcy4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVuZw0K DQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogQWNlIFttYWlsdG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmddILT6se0gQWxpc3NhIENvb3Blcg0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTTE6jXUwjEzyNUgNzoyMA0K ytW8/sjLOiBUaGUgSUVTRw0Ks63LzTogYWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBbQWNlXSBBbGlzc2Eg Q29vcGVyJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDA6ICh3aXRoIENP TU1FTlQpDQoNCkFsaXNzYSBDb29wZXIgaGFzIGVudGVyZWQgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBiYWxsb3Qg cG9zaXRpb24gZm9yDQpjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAwOiBObyBPYmplY3Rpb24NCg0KV2hl biByZXNwb25kaW5nLCBwbGVhc2Uga2VlcCB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBsaW5lIGludGFjdCBhbmQgcmVw bHkgdG8gYWxsIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGUgVG8gYW5kIENDIGxpbmVz LiAoRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGN1dCB0aGlzIGludHJvZHVjdG9yeSBwYXJhZ3JhcGgsIGhvd2V2ZXIu KQ0KDQoNCg0KVGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LCBhbG9uZyB3aXRoIG90aGVyIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbnMs IGNhbiBiZSBmb3VuZCBoZXJlOg0KaHR0cDovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9jaGFy dGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KQ09NTUVOVDoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NCg0KVGhlcmUgaXMgc29tZSBsYWNrIG9mIGNsYXJpdHkgaW4gdGhpcyBjaGFydGVyIGFib3V0 IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIGdyb3VwIHdhbnRzIHRvIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplIE9uZSBTb2x1dGlvbiB0byBS dWxlIHRoZW0gQWxsLCBvciBtdWx0aXBsZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMuIEl0IHNvdW5kcyBtb3N0bHkgbGlr ZSBvbmUgc29sdXRpb24sIGV4Y2VwdCBmb3IgdGhlIHBhcmFncmFwaCB0aGF0IGJlZ2lucyAiRXhp c3RpbmcgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIHdpbGwgYmUg dXNlZCBhbmQgcmUtYXBwbGllZCAuLi4uIiBJdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBnb29kIGZvciB0aGUgY2hhcnRl ciB0byBjbGFyaWZ5IHRoaXMuDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hY2UNCg== From nobody Tue May 13 10:34:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB401A013B; Tue, 13 May 2014 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MANGLED_SAVELE=2.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7MtrqJiRT3gD; Tue, 13 May 2014 10:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A3E1A017D; Tue, 13 May 2014 10:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEC66664; Tue, 13 May 2014 17:34:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 18:33:22 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.33) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 18:33:55 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.158]) by SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 01:33:50 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Adrian Farrel , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/Jpf0GKHR8wU26ZeDnJQgKn5s+xVqQ Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:33:49 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.117.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/lNY2ZBWVT82FwgsFm01GAwSbVb8 Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:34:53 -0000 SGkgQWRyaWFuIGFuZCBhbGwsDQoNCj5UaGVyZSBhcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCBtZW50aW9ucyBvZiAicmVz b3VyY2VzIiBhbmQgInJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZlcnMiIGluIHRoZSB0ZXh0LCBidXQgbm8gY2xhcml0 eSBhYm91dCB3aGF0IGEgcmVzb3VyY2UgaXMgYW5kIHdoYXQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIGEgcmVzb3VyY2Ug bWVhbnMuDQoNCkFib3V0IHRoZSAicmVzb3VyY2UiLCB3ZSBjYW4gdGFrZSB0aGUgZGVmaW5pdGlv biBmcm9tIFJGQzI2MTY6DQoNCiAgIHJlc291cmNlDQogICAgICBBIG5ldHdvcmsgZGF0YSBvYmpl Y3Qgb3Igc2VydmljZSB0aGF0IGNhbiBiZSBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGJ5IGEgVVJJLA0KICAgICAgYXMg ZGVmaW5lZCBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDMuMi4gUmVzb3VyY2VzIG1heSBiZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gbXVs dGlwbGUNCiAgICAgIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9ucyAoZS5nLiBtdWx0aXBsZSBsYW5ndWFnZXMsIGRh dGEgZm9ybWF0cywgc2l6ZSwgYW5kDQogICAgICByZXNvbHV0aW9ucykgb3IgdmFyeSBpbiBvdGhl ciB3YXlzLg0KDQpGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGNhbiBiZSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZSBzZW5z b3JzIG9uIGEgZGF0YSBjb2xsZWN0aW9uIG5vZGUsIG9yIGEgbGlzdCBvZiBhbGFybXMgb24gYSBo b21lIHNlY3VyaXR5IGNvbnRyb2xsZXIuIFtSRkM2NjkwXQ0KDQpNYXliZSB3ZSBjYW4gYWRkIHR3 byBleHBsYW5hdGlvbnM6IG9uZSBpcyB0aGF0IHJlc291cmNlcyBjYW4gYmUgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBi eSBhIFVSSSwgdHdvIGlzIHRoYXQgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGFyZSBob3N0ZWQgb24gdGhlIHJlc291cmNl IHNlcnZlci4NCg0KIkFjY2VzcyB0byBhIHJlc291cmNlIiBtZWFucyBHZXQsIFB1dCwgUG9zdCBh bmQgRGVsZXRlIHRvIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UuDQoNCkhlcmUgaXMgdGhlIGNoYW5nZSBwcm9wb3NhbDoN Cg0KT0xEDQpUaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3JlIGFpbXMgdG8gcHJvZHVjZSBhIHN0 YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24g dG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBl bnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQoNCk5FVw0KVGhpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBhaW1zIHRv IHByb2R1Y2UgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBh dXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHRvIGVuYWJsZSBhdXRob3JpemVkIGFjY2VzcyAoR2V0LCBQdXQsIFBvc3Qs IERlbGV0ZSkgdG8gcmVzb3VyY2VzIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYnkgYSBVUkkgYW5kIGhvc3RlZCBvbiBh IHJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZlciBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQpFTkQNCg0KPlJl YWRpbmcgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgY2xlYXJseSB0aGF0IHRoaXMgd29yayBpcyBs aW1pdGVkIHRvIHNwZWNpZmljIHByb3RvY29scyBvciBzcGVjaWZpYyBwbGFjZXMgaW4gdGhlIHN0 YWNrLiBJIHNlbnNlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGludGVudGlvbiBpcyBub3QgdG8gd29yayBvbiBhbGwgcHJv dG9jb2xzIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cyBidXQgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGF0 IGlzIHdoYXQgdGhlIHRleHQgYWN0dWFsbHkgc2F5cy4gSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZSBpbnRlbnRp b24gaXMgdG8gbGltaXQgdGhlIHdvcmsgdG8gdGhlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0 aCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGVkIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMgKHdpdGhuZXNzIENvQVAgYW5kIEhU VFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMpLiBDb3VsZCB0aGlzIGJlIGNhbGxlZCBvdXQgbW9yZSBzcGVj aWZpY2FsbHk/DQoNClllcywgdGhlIG1haW4gdGFyZ2V0IG9mIHRoZSBzb2x1dGlvbiBpcyB0byB3 b3JrIHdpdGggQ29BUC9EVExTLCBidXQgd2UgYWxzbyB3YW50IGl0IHRvIGJlIGFwcGxpY2FibGUg Zm9yIEhUVFAvVExTLiBPdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIG91dCBvZiB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBzY29w ZS4NCg0KSGVyZSBpcyB0aGUgY2hhbmdlIHByb3Bvc2FsOg0KDQpPTEQNCk9uY2UgcHJvZ3Jlc3Mg aW4gaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcgc3VpdGFibGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBoYXMgYmVlbiBtYWRl LCB0aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCB3aWxsIHZlcmlmeSB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZSBzYW1lIG1lY2hhbmlz bXMgYXJlIGFsc28gYXBwbGljYWJsZSBiZXlvbmQgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTLCB3 aGljaCBhcmUgdGhlIHR3byBtYWluIHByb3RvY29scyB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBm b3IgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcy4gSW4gcGFydGljdWxhciwgdGhlIGFiaWxpdHkgdG8gdXNl IHRoZSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgc29sdXRpb24gb3ZlciBIVFRQIGFuZCBUTFMgd2lsbCBiZSBpbnZlc3Rp Z2F0ZWQuDQoNCk5FVw0KT25jZSBwcm9ncmVzcyBpbiBpZGVudGlmeWluZyBzdWl0YWJsZSBjYW5k aWRhdGUgc29sdXRpb25zIGhhcyBiZWVuIG1hZGUsIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgdmVy aWZ5IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBhcmUgYWxzbyBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIGJleW9u ZCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIENvQVAgYW5kIERUTFMsIHdoaWNoIGFyZSB0aGUgdHdvIG1haW4gcHJvdG9j b2xzIHRoZSBncm91cCB3aWxsIGZvY3VzIG9uIGZvciBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gcmVzb3VyY2VzLiBJbiBw YXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byB1c2UgdGhlIGRldmVsb3BlZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBvdmVy IEhUVFAgYW5kIFRMUyB3aWxsIGJlIGludmVzdGlnYXRlZC4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSB3b3JrIGlz IGxpbWl0ZWQgdG8gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4gT3RoZXIgYXBwbGlj YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgcmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGFy ZSBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUuDQpFTkQNCg0KRG9lcyB0aGlzIHNvbHZlIHlvdXIgY29uY2Vybj8NCg0K VGhhbmtzLA0KDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVuZw0KDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCrei vP7IyzogQWNlIFttYWlsdG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJl bA0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTTE6jXUwjEzyNUgMTk6MzgNCsrVvP7IyzogVGhlIElFU0cNCrOty806 IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogW0FjZV0gQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCdzIEJsb2NrIG9uIGNoYXJ0 ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDA6ICh3aXRoIEJMT0NLKQ0KDQpBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsIGhhcyBlbnRl cmVkIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgYmFsbG90IHBvc2l0aW9uIGZvcg0KY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0w MC0wMDogQmxvY2sNCg0KV2hlbiByZXNwb25kaW5nLCBwbGVhc2Uga2VlcCB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBs aW5lIGludGFjdCBhbmQgcmVwbHkgdG8gYWxsIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0 aGUgVG8gYW5kIENDIGxpbmVzLiAoRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGN1dCB0aGlzIGludHJvZHVjdG9yeSBw YXJhZ3JhcGgsIGhvd2V2ZXIuKQ0KDQoNCg0KVGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LCBhbG9uZyB3aXRoIG90aGVy IGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbnMsIGNhbiBiZSBmb3VuZCBoZXJlOg0KaHR0cDovL2RhdGF0cmFja2Vy LmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9jaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KQkxP Q0s6DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCkFsdGhvdWdoIEkgd291bGQgcHJlZmVyIHRoaXMgdG8gYmUg d3JpdHRlbiB3aXRoIGZld2VyIHdvcmRzLCB0aGUgY2hhcnRlciB0ZXh0IGlzIGJhc2ljYWxseSBP Sy4gSG93ZXZlciwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGNvdXBsZSBvZiB0aGluZ3MgdGhhdCBuZWVkIHRvIGNsYXJp ZmllZCBzbyBJIGFtIHJhaXNpbmcgYSAiQmxvY2siLiBJIGhvcGUgd2UgY2FuIHNvcnQgdGhpcyBv dXQgd2l0aCBhIGZldyBzaW1wbGUgY2hhbmdlcy4NCg0KICAgVGhpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHRo ZXJlZm9yZSBhaW1zIHRvIHByb2R1Y2UgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgDQogICBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3Ig YXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlDQogICBhdXRob3JpemVk IGFjY2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQpUaGVy ZSBhcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCBtZW50aW9ucyBvZiAicmVzb3VyY2VzIiBhbmQgInJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZl cnMiIGluIHRoZSB0ZXh0LCBidXQgbm8gY2xhcml0eSBhYm91dCB3aGF0IGEgcmVzb3VyY2UgaXMg YW5kIHdoYXQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UgbWVhbnMuDQoNCg0KUmVhZGluZyB0aGUgY2hh cnRlciBJIGRvbid0IHNlZSBjbGVhcmx5IHRoYXQgdGhpcyB3b3JrIGlzIGxpbWl0ZWQgdG8NCnNw ZWNpZmljIHByb3RvY29scyBvciBzcGVjaWZpYyBwbGFjZXMgaW4gdGhlIHN0YWNrLiBJIHNlbnNl IHRoYXQgdGhlDQppbnRlbnRpb24gaXMgbm90IHRvIHdvcmsgb24gYWxsIHByb3RvY29scyBpbiBj b25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMNCmJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXMgd2hhdCB0 aGUgdGV4dCBhY3R1YWxseSBzYXlzLiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQNCnRoZSBpbnRlbnRpb24gaXMgdG8g bGltaXQgdGhlIHdvcmsgdG8gdGhlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0aA0KdGhlaXIg cmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzICh3aXRobmVzcyBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGgg RFRMUw0KYW5kIFRMUykuIENvdWxkIHRoaXMgYmUgY2FsbGVkIG91dCBtb3JlIHNwZWNpZmljYWxs eT8NCg0KDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCkFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hY2UNCg== From nobody Tue May 13 11:10:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A6AA1A01CE for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vXy16uUmzzQ1 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD4A1A01D5 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.46]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8F320E4F for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 13 May 2014 14:10:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=date :subject:from:to:cc:message-id:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mesmtp; bh=UIS/rVPd7hUCNqNZ6ZwiAbIl320=; b=EGbeVIocJzuiq4krjwWkgWmlXYBH 4JypZSXRY4Gl2o6x4Q4KDYvaVx3XFwqe+KzCeVy1sJhxxdYjY92gBRne85QMs+c8 WxsvGGlkQopJ8axFnr/PtiKjpfjynn7Ic/AVh0tcEyrea1JvwK0khDXT2m6LNSxz sbLw57b9l97Z+Cc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=UIS/rVPd7hUCNqNZ6ZwiAb Il320=; b=mODuiABhEYpdQQbVjAeDUK4Mt0wlULkLhrkTPb02opj33m4fZ3IG/m XsHx6fzzhZha9U+BpUQZe1xinHX/6gJk5J6g9AT/N/wUjM0OvSDsCj5lsZBKkQy1 GYOhEY++AIx4F7ZXLLKM5sm0HV4jsn7NzsUiqxDvLuclmaU1H+a5k= X-Sasl-enc: 9Mq93ttuWKtOLI40HJ9phiLpmyGRAaNgbmiBpxL8L2B0 1400004607 Received: from [171.68.18.132] (unknown [171.68.18.132]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A2B62C007AB; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:10:05 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:10:02 -0700 From: Alissa Cooper To: Likepeng , The IESG Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with COMMENT) References: <20140512232017.406.66404.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B293FC@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B293FC@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/jvG-MTZE5GthBfQzrdslNCin-q4 Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 18:10:20 -0000 On 5/13/14, 9:39 AM, "Likepeng" wrote: >>There is some lack of clarity in this charter about whether the group >>wants to standardize One Solution to Rule them All, or multiple >>solutions. It sounds mostly like one solution, except for the paragraph >>that begins "Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be >>used and re-applied ...." It would be good for the charter to clarify >>this. > >I think it is better to have just one solution. Maybe it can't solve all >the problem, but it improves the interoperability. If we have multiple >solutions, we will have interoperability issues. > >About the paragraph you mentioned, here is the change proposal: > >OLD >Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used and >re-applied for use in constrained environments where applicable. This >requires relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability, >selecting a subset of them and restricting the options within each of the >specifications. Some functionality, however, may not be available in >existing protocols and thus new standardization efforts may be required. >Leveraging existing work means the working group benefits from available >security analysis, implementation, and deployment experience. Moreover, a >standardized solution for federated authentication and authorization will >help to stimulate the deployment of constrained devices that provide >increased security. > >NEW >Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used where >applicable to build the constrained-environment solution. This requires >relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability, selecting a >subset of them and restricting the options within each of the >specifications. Some functionality, however, may not be available in >existing protocols, in which case the solution may also involve new >protocol work. Leveraging existing work means the working group benefits >from available security analysis, implementation, and deployment >experience. Moreover, a standardized solution for federated >authentication and authorization will help to stimulate the deployment of >constrained devices that provide increased security. >END This looks better. Thanks. Alissa > >Hope this clarifies. > >Thanks, > >Kind Regards >Kepeng > >-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ace [mailto:ace-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Alissa Cooper >=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5 7:20 >=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: The IESG >=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ace@ietf.org >=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Ace] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (wit= h >COMMENT) > >Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >charter-ietf-ace-00-00: No Objection > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >There is some lack of clarity in this charter about whether the group >wants to standardize One Solution to Rule them All, or multiple >solutions. It sounds mostly like one solution, except for the paragraph >that begins "Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be >used and re-applied ...." It would be good for the charter to clarify >this. > > >_______________________________________________ >Ace mailing list >Ace@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Tue May 13 11:37:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 304B21A00E3; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqLQb-0xj-qw; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D477B1A00DD; Tue, 13 May 2014 11:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4DIbXsa021985; Tue, 13 May 2014 19:37:33 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4DIbRNb021953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 13 May 2014 19:37:28 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Likepeng'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 19:37:20 +0100 Message-ID: <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFYqhR1P2teX39lTaQQdQZOocGTfQJD/FAUnBo6kUA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1017-20692.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--13.768-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--13.768-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: vEvJ7Rh1lGg4HKI/yaqRm0hEDfw/93Bug8C02zkI7w7xSV7YBeBhS5dE DnskDq+WEKge92Qa4iDEMMjgJSmOd540h7AM9oPtE0Q83A2vD+vmELBDcs0dnRS11FlOYRohfAj MZQrAh+d/Gd4LOa0GoNDIwHHokaD6bTSwI/A2DvDAJnGRMfFxySOSuAnftGqPnLVhzy0+RX1D56 cT/271RyiOUNh0Cg8Fd7a48TdsHgzrqihpsG2+NDXKFtsDtZ7TGSqdEmeD/nV/sUNganJerdBYg 6g5UIB++0GKtSboUOCzecxzhXYW44B7olGVtK47kJi1wdeHFtqHxi2fvkKUM3hOa4C/aON5RpcT EuutBQChKtz33KRunSt84qQpn45aAMFp5W5WHQKeAiCmPx4NwLTrdaH1ZWqCpvI8UZOf47jUZxE AlFPo846HM5rqDwqtO7r7+RTX7UCZvkRKnfzVQLwvDhgo6WGOTFOPWHL0YUgrQFsHu0/deA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/CNTTY73Imd9XSf088XPEDtw3Tds Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 18:37:48 -0000 Hi, > >There are several mentions of "resources" and "resource servers" in the text, > but no clarity about what a resource is and what access to a resource means. > > About the "resource", we can take the definition from RFC2616: > > resource > A network data object or service that can be identified by a URI, > as defined in section 3.2. Resources may be available in multiple > representations (e.g. multiple languages, data formats, size, and > resolutions) or vary in other ways. > > For example, resources can be temperature sensors on a data collection node, or > a list of alarms on a home security controller. [RFC6690] > > Maybe we can add two explanations: one is that resources can be identified by a > URI, two is that resources are hosted on the resource server. > > "Access to a resource" means Get, Put, Post and Delete to a resource. > > Here is the change proposal: > > OLD > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for > authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to resources in > constrained environments. > > NEW > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for > authentication and authorization to enable authorized access (Get, Put, Post, > Delete) to resources identified by a URI and hosted on a resource server in > constrained environments. > END Yes, OK. Good. I think "hosted on a resource server" clinches it for me. My main worry was that I could assign a URI to an interface or LSP. But this text closes the concern. > >Reading the charter I don't see clearly that this work is limited to specific > protocols or specific places in the stack. I sense that the intention is not to work > on all protocols in constrained environments but I don't think that is what the text > actually says. I think that the intention is to limit the work to the applications > protocols with their related transport protocols (withness CoAP and HTTP with > DTLS and TLS). Could this be called out more specifically? > > Yes, the main target of the solution is to work with CoAP/DTLS, but we also want > it to be applicable for HTTP/TLS. Other protocols are out of the current scope. > > Here is the change proposal: > > OLD > Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, the > working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also applicable > beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main protocols the group > will focus on for access to resources. In particular, the ability to use the > developed solution over HTTP and TLS will be investigated. > > NEW > Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, the > working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also applicable > beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main protocols the group > will focus on for access to resources. In particular, the ability to use the > developed solution over HTTP and TLS will be investigated. Note that the work is > limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with > their related transport protocols are out of scope. > END How about... Other applications protocol with their related transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope. Thanks for engaging. Adrian From nobody Tue May 13 13:07:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A411A01C6; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q_exgUcuu_yC; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF811A019F; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEC73622; Tue, 13 May 2014 20:07:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 21:06:51 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.36) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 13 May 2014 21:07:25 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.158]) by SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 04:07:20 +0800 From: Likepeng To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'The IESG'" Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/Jpf0GKHR8wU26ZeDnJQgKn5s+xVqQ//+MCQCAAJ+lwA== Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:07:18 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.87.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/wn6GiWZCQ1n1Rd-sb1IAKevMRdc Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:07:38 -0000 PkhvdyBhYm91dC4uLg0KDQo+T3RoZXIgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHByb3RvY29sIHdpdGggdGhlaXIg cmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBhbmQgb3RoZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90aGVy IGxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2ssIGFyZSBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUuDQoNCkxvb2tzIGdvb2QgdG8g bWUuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0t LS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwgW21haWx0bzphZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrXSAN Creiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOo11MIxNMjVIDI6MzcNCsrVvP7IyzogTGlrZXBlbmc7ICdUaGUgSUVT RycNCrOty806IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUkU6IFtBY2VdIEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwncyBC bG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAwOiAod2l0aCBCTE9DSykNCg0KSGksDQoNCj4g PlRoZXJlIGFyZSBzZXZlcmFsIG1lbnRpb25zIG9mICJyZXNvdXJjZXMiIGFuZCAicmVzb3VyY2Ug c2VydmVycyIgaW4gDQo+ID50aGUgdGV4dCwNCj4gYnV0IG5vIGNsYXJpdHkgYWJvdXQgd2hhdCBh IHJlc291cmNlIGlzIGFuZCB3aGF0IGFjY2VzcyB0byBhIHJlc291cmNlIG1lYW5zLg0KPiANCj4g QWJvdXQgdGhlICJyZXNvdXJjZSIsIHdlIGNhbiB0YWtlIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIGZyb20gUkZD MjYxNjoNCj4gDQo+ICAgIHJlc291cmNlDQo+ICAgICAgIEEgbmV0d29yayBkYXRhIG9iamVjdCBv ciBzZXJ2aWNlIHRoYXQgY2FuIGJlIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYnkgYSBVUkksDQo+ICAgICAgIGFzIGRl ZmluZWQgaW4gc2VjdGlvbiAzLjIuIFJlc291cmNlcyBtYXkgYmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIG11bHRp cGxlDQo+ICAgICAgIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9ucyAoZS5nLiBtdWx0aXBsZSBsYW5ndWFnZXMsIGRh dGEgZm9ybWF0cywgc2l6ZSwgYW5kDQo+ICAgICAgIHJlc29sdXRpb25zKSBvciB2YXJ5IGluIG90 aGVyIHdheXMuDQo+IA0KPiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGNhbiBiZSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVy ZSBzZW5zb3JzIG9uIGEgZGF0YSBjb2xsZWN0aW9uIA0KPiBub2RlLA0Kb3INCj4gYSBsaXN0IG9m IGFsYXJtcyBvbiBhIGhvbWUgc2VjdXJpdHkgY29udHJvbGxlci4gW1JGQzY2OTBdDQo+IA0KPiBN YXliZSB3ZSBjYW4gYWRkIHR3byBleHBsYW5hdGlvbnM6IG9uZSBpcyB0aGF0IHJlc291cmNlcyBj YW4gYmUgDQo+IGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYnkNCmENCj4gVVJJLCB0d28gaXMgdGhhdCByZXNvdXJjZXMg YXJlIGhvc3RlZCBvbiB0aGUgcmVzb3VyY2Ugc2VydmVyLg0KPiANCj4gIkFjY2VzcyB0byBhIHJl c291cmNlIiBtZWFucyBHZXQsIFB1dCwgUG9zdCBhbmQgRGVsZXRlIHRvIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UuDQo+ IA0KPiBIZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgcHJvcG9zYWw6DQo+IA0KPiBPTEQNCj4gVGhpcyB3b3Jr aW5nIGdyb3VwIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBhaW1zIHRvIHByb2R1Y2UgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgc29sdXRp b24gDQo+IGZvciBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiB0byBlbmFibGUgYXV0 aG9yaXplZCBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gDQo+IHJlc291cmNlcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVu dHMuDQo+IA0KPiBORVcNCj4gVGhpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBhaW1zIHRvIHBy b2R1Y2UgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgc29sdXRpb24gDQo+IGZvciBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg YXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiB0byBlbmFibGUgYXV0aG9yaXplZCBhY2Nlc3MgKEdldCwgDQo+IFB1dCwg UG9zdCwNCj4gRGVsZXRlKSB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBieSBhIFVSSSBhbmQgaG9z dGVkIG9uIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UgDQo+IHNlcnZlciBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMu DQo+IEVORA0KDQpZZXMsIE9LLiBHb29kLg0KSSB0aGluayAiaG9zdGVkIG9uIGEgcmVzb3VyY2Ug c2VydmVyIiBjbGluY2hlcyBpdCBmb3IgbWUuDQpNeSBtYWluIHdvcnJ5IHdhcyB0aGF0IEkgY291 bGQgYXNzaWduIGEgVVJJIHRvIGFuIGludGVyZmFjZSBvciBMU1AuIEJ1dCB0aGlzIHRleHQgY2xv c2VzIHRoZSBjb25jZXJuLg0KDQo+ID5SZWFkaW5nIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGNs ZWFybHkgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgaXMgbGltaXRlZCB0byANCj4gPnNwZWNpZmljDQo+IHByb3Rv Y29scyBvciBzcGVjaWZpYyBwbGFjZXMgaW4gdGhlIHN0YWNrLiBJIHNlbnNlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGlu dGVudGlvbiANCj4gaXMgbm90DQp0byB3b3JrDQo+IG9uIGFsbCBwcm90b2NvbHMgaW4gY29uc3Ry YWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzIGJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXMgDQo+IHdoYXQNCnRo ZSB0ZXh0DQo+IGFjdHVhbGx5IHNheXMuIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW50ZW50aW9uIGlzIHRv IGxpbWl0IHRoZSB3b3JrIHRvIHRoZQ0KYXBwbGljYXRpb25zDQo+IHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoIHRo ZWlyIHJlbGF0ZWQgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3RvY29scyAod2l0aG5lc3MgQ29BUCBhbmQgDQo+IEhU VFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMpLiBDb3VsZCB0aGlzIGJlIGNhbGxlZCBvdXQgbW9yZSBzcGVj aWZpY2FsbHk/DQo+IA0KPiBZZXMsIHRoZSBtYWluIHRhcmdldCBvZiB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gaXMg dG8gd29yayB3aXRoIENvQVAvRFRMUywgYnV0IHdlIA0KPiBhbHNvDQp3YW50DQo+IGl0IHRvIGJl IGFwcGxpY2FibGUgZm9yIEhUVFAvVExTLiBPdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIG91dCBvZiB0aGUg DQo+IGN1cnJlbnQNCnNjb3BlLg0KPiANCj4gSGVyZSBpcyB0aGUgY2hhbmdlIHByb3Bvc2FsOg0K PiANCj4gT0xEDQo+IE9uY2UgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgaW4gaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcgc3VpdGFibGUgY2FuZGlk YXRlIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBoYXMgYmVlbiANCj4gbWFkZSwgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCB2 ZXJpZnkgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgc2FtZSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGFyZSANCj4gYWxzbyBhcHBsaWNhYmxl IGJleW9uZCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIENvQVAgYW5kIERUTFMsIHdoaWNoIGFyZSB0aGUgdHdvIA0KPiBt YWluIHByb3RvY29scyB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBmb3IgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291 cmNlcy4gSW4gDQo+IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVk IHNvbHV0aW9uIG92ZXIgSFRUUCBhbmQgVExTIHdpbGwgYmUgaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVkLg0KPiANCj4g TkVXDQo+IE9uY2UgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgaW4gaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcgc3VpdGFibGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHNv bHV0aW9ucyBoYXMgYmVlbiANCj4gbWFkZSwgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCB2ZXJpZnkg d2hldGhlciB0aGUgc2FtZSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGFyZSANCj4gYWxzbyBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIGJleW9u ZCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIENvQVAgYW5kIERUTFMsIHdoaWNoIGFyZSB0aGUgdHdvIA0KPiBtYWluIHBy b3RvY29scyB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBmb3IgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcy4g SW4gDQo+IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHNvbHV0 aW9uIG92ZXIgSFRUUCBhbmQgDQo+IFRMUyB3aWxsIGJlIGludmVzdGlnYXRlZC4gTm90ZSB0aGF0 IHRoZSB3b3JrDQppcw0KPiBsaW1pdGVkIHRvIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBU TFMuIE90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIA0KPiBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0aCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGVkIHRy YW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIG91dCBvZiBzY29wZS4NCj4gRU5EDQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dC4u Lg0KDQpPdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgcHJvdG9jb2wgd2l0aCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGVkIHRyYW5z cG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFuZCBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRo ZSBzdGFjaywgYXJlIG91dCBvZiBzY29wZS4NCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciBlbmdhZ2luZy4NCkFkcmlh bg0KDQo= From nobody Tue May 13 13:48:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C59F1A01EF; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CkZDCTHQJfx; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x231.google.com (mail-qg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E3D1A01EB; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id a108so1264541qge.36 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5T2MGmO9FT5eqvY60STrfsRyzbGgJy3VO+ZYu1yKaHY=; b=nA/DGtY1SuHe3uU6vd70G1t3vD0W3Dk+0Qz16qPnXjifcHwNQgqAV8ujwDQdD9jLWa xMThR28V8+I+RVATizUy1M+w+ubI4XYPbSXcfeef9RVEzWbGdw9nklaAtJSM0nbAIgp0 t1pfc+qU0sNNWjBxqdb8+z4W9zrncVdv2eH0xB98VPNpKz+hkKAoGlSF+GrtmY8wPcGe mrLAZ6pNv7zwSEsyV2m/Q4yKdgEjrELYMLFcB6YbeunJNaDHIMC2xTSNpox+Z4ZslR4Y obf3c3Pn3xsBFk0cB1uz8kh26ExUpYGAXUjM6If148OED71UGL+DmsZV3/QxwooNITfs vqBw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.32.195 with SMTP id h61mr39396239qgh.10.1400014105520; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.137.10 with HTTP; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:48:25 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RAK6a18EdYDaTSdGKXAN4ZAU5oY Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Alissa Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/U2gVX3H0lWdwkYG1Nkwf0_ek-54 Cc: The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:48:33 -0000 >>Other applications protocol with their related transport protocols, >> and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope. > > Looks good to me. Great; I've made the edits to address Adrian's and Alissa's comments, and they're in version -00-01. I've also changed the responsible AD to Kathleen Moriarty: unless other ADs object, the WG will go into the Sec Area, not App, and Kathleen will handle it. Barry From nobody Tue May 13 13:57:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF731A01FE; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SLz8tLYcmQOM; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1AA1A01EF; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:57:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Adrian Farrel" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140513205725.2960.63875.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:57:25 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/gB06ZUgQ7wQhA-F1Lr69rZPZ-LM Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:57:26 -0000 Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, for addressing my substantive concerns. From nobody Tue May 13 14:16:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D011A0205; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:16:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NEuzg7RYsRUu; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C536E1A0206; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1914C2CCC0; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:16:18 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zVASo5PQsujY; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:16:17 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F54E2CC48; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:16:17 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 23:16:17 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Barry Leiba , "adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/Z36Kx3P7u5HChcmZmfe_WKFtjwQ Cc: The IESG , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 21:16:28 -0000 The resource edit is good. Re: the scoping - for my personal purposes, the -00 text was more = balanced to how I would have liked to see the group's scope set. It = clearly laid out what the group's main focus is (CoAP and DTLS) but = allowed exploration on whether solutions fit other purposes as well. The = reason that I care about this is that I have worked on and want to work = on data object security, as well as transport layer security. It is not = clear to me why an authorisation solution needs to restrict itself to = being used on the latter only. This is indeed my personal opinion only, but I thought it would be = useful to share as a datapoint of someone who wanted to work on this = space. Jari From nobody Tue May 13 14:22:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1BF1A01EB; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9vAtddRbiZ9; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x22b.google.com (mail-qc0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146051A01C9; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id x13so1338399qcv.2 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0QiKsvEW/hRBxBCJz85tBtBzPpuRvDumRCV7kkxUSzA=; b=pz885aLhNHM//e+pnkRQOmXgigERYSDnPj6jrwL/aUKEsaMGEcLrDNg9u9g0iXfRYF kIqGtpaaMbQ2yC/noEBGnYQbLMyfZ5NWl06z0FKu3z36Of9fkrbU8vdbFJ0mYOpLmfPI qbHACYZKf3VCec/9ycvAOlnKTqI4f8YE2Ag/l2w8WANhF4HaCut0xzsf/L1XKi4Ik3OC euRU7L+kPupPBqapZ64LL0MRriRxHmNrdeA6e/U2HLfKB4+9MVye5XfoQ0aTqt2yzkEK QGZJxB9AYIbn9n1fjdXMJU/Rx1efNko5/X5A+tZf8PKYhp7G3P2hkwj3S0D6wvOgLjMa wf8Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.112.5 with SMTP id u5mr52195286qcp.3.1400016162548; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.137.10 with HTTP; Tue, 13 May 2014 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:22:42 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eTO20ygNDoKiM_GpMD9GG78mKEk Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Jari Arkko Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/oZBIEssBMjn4Rc4qvS1Vsk3kE4c Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 21:22:50 -0000 > Re: the scoping - for my personal purposes, the -00 text was more > balanced to how I would have liked to see the group's scope set. It > clearly laid out what the group's main focus is (CoAP and DTLS) but > allowed exploration on whether solutions fit other purposes as well. > The reason that I care about this is that I have worked on and want to > work on data object security, as well as transport layer security. It > is not clear to me why an authorisation solution needs to restrict > itself to being used on the latter only. I understand, but I think it's always been the intent for this work to start at the App layer only, and to consider looking at other protocols and layers later. I would want us to get this work done first in any case, and then re-charter to go further. If you disagree with that plan, let's talk about it and see where it brings us. Barry From nobody Tue May 13 21:03:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25D61A0225; Tue, 13 May 2014 21:02:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xTHbwULb3p04; Tue, 13 May 2014 21:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065DB1A0145; Tue, 13 May 2014 21:02:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Pete Resnick" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140514040255.12167.18095.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 21:02:55 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/Br1Ood4PYHLvOp18sturoIxthmk Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Pete Resnick's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 04:02:57 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 04:02:57 -0000 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would generally ask whether the requirements and use cases (r&uc) document needs to be output from the WG or can (at the WG's and AD's discretion) simply be an internal document that never gets published as an RFC (I don't think it needs to be), but the suggested milestones make me even more convinced that there is no need to publish the document: It's clear that the development of the protocol will be in parallel with the development of the r&uc. Given that, it's clear that the charter is not saying that the r&uc need to be nailed down before work can commence. So I say make the submission to the IESG and publication of the r&uc optional. No need for make-work if it turns out not to be interesting in the long run. From nobody Tue May 13 22:24:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DAD1A023A; Tue, 13 May 2014 22:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 42junA_pfVzL; Tue, 13 May 2014 22:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B7A1A0229; Tue, 13 May 2014 22:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f798c6d000001521-c7-5372fe1ede4f Received: from ESESSHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 30.47.05409.E1EF2735; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:24:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC006.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:24:46 +0200 From: =?Windows-1252?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: Adrian Farrel , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/GZN+O86iEW0aDG4/qxYbMI5s/jGAA Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 05:24:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja7cv6Jgg56vKhbfv/UwW/zoucFs MePPRGYHZo8lS34yeazYvJIxgCmKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK2PnhO1sBYvFK35+38bYwNgj3MXI ySEhYCLRteo0M4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBo4wSr3Z8Z4VwFjNK/HlwlwWkik3AXeJxz0YwW0TA UWLBljtsIDazgKLEujl9TCC2sECQxNkzm4CmcgDVBEssfusMUW4ksenDe7BlLAKqEncm/Qcb wytgITG/4RpYXEjAQeJV62pWEJsTaPzPK+cYQWxGoOO+n1rDBLFKXOLWk/lMEEcLSCzZcx7q AVGJl4//gfWKCuhJvDsOU6MksfbwdhaIXgOJ9+fmM0PY1hJr/l9lhLC1JZYtfM0McY+gxMmZ T1gmMErMQrJuFpL2WUjaZyFpn4WkfQEj6ypG0eLU4qTcdCNjvdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwIg8 uOW36g7Gy28cDzEKcDAq8fAuiC0KFmJNLCuuzD3EKM3BoiTO++WWT7CQQHpiSWp2ampBalF8 UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGxgALT0GXhvSjCy6FhYW2hsukZjuab7A+J/rxr+wDweyNj1dOzFG46s/D ZBr95kPitc4tr201uVoupB6IC3TnZXEpeV1oETDp+3SNGps/G2/LcHzjS8hMrJn9x6fWImtl 35HctS1XPPgT2H4kdBWzV3kKHa6PSmQLnugiI+oc97yyzod/e68SS3FGoqEWc1FxIgC2PmRJ qQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/CjSGg_WhhVQkvNk67tOFHnt1K1E Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 05:24:56 -0000 Adrian, and all On 13/05/14 13:37, "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > >Reading the charter I don't see clearly that this work is limited to >specific protocols or specific places in the stack. I sense that the >intention is not to work on all protocols in constrained environments >but I don't think that is what the text actually says. I think that >the intention is to limit the work to the applications protocols with >their related transport protocols (withness CoAP and HTTP with DTLS >and TLS). Could this be called out more specifically? > I understand the concern that the work would not be sufficiently focused unless restricting to specific protocols or protocol layers. I=B9m fine wit= h restricting to HTTP and CoAP for access to resources, but I like to understand exactly what is meant by limiting the work to TLS/DTLS. As I understand the problem, it is about a multi-party protocol where a third party supports a client and a server, which are constrained, to perform authenticated and authorized access. The third party is assumed to have established a key/security association at least with the server to perform this. Compare section 1 of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-ace-overview-00 The fact that the client and server are constrained implies in particular that a DTLS handshake has a significant performance impact. If we really want it to support the constrained devices, we would use the established security association(s) and allow the third party to also be involved in authentication and key establishment between client and resource server. Compare e.g. OAuth 2.0 MAC Tokens http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-http-mac-04 Now, the 00-01 version of the charter says: "Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope." When I first read =B3other protocols =8A are out of scope" I wondered if th= is multi-party protocol mentioned above is at all in scope. Maybe we could reformulate to make this clear? Assuming that the multi-party protocol is in scope, what is this protocol allowed to do? Only support with authorization information, or also support client-server with authentication and/or key establishment? If the latter is true, must the client-server anyway run DTLS? Or can the multi-party protocol in some aspect replace overlapping functionality in DTLS (and thereby reduce its performance impact)? G=F6ran From nobody Tue May 13 23:29:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920721A0243; Tue, 13 May 2014 23:29:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Abtc6jB0O-gi; Tue, 13 May 2014 23:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch (bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch [130.60.155.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0EA1A0240; Tue, 13 May 2014 23:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from authenticated sender schmitt by bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch (postfix) with ESMTPSA id SA; <1E9057FC8C> Message-ID: <53730D2C.7090606@ifi.uzh.ch> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 08:29:00 +0200 From: Corinna Schmitt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barry Leiba , Jari Arkko References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.8 at bohuslav X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/IOvcam_q5qmd2DgD8LxQgFsnyaI Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 06:29:11 -0000 Dear Barry, I had the same understanding as you when writing our draft on two-way authentication. From my side it is the best to start with the App layer in order to allow layer changes below without effecting the solution. Looking on the other layers can be done later. Regards, Corinna Am 13.05.14 23:22, schrieb Barry Leiba: >> Re: the scoping - for my personal purposes, the -00 text was more >> balanced to how I would have liked to see the group's scope set. It >> clearly laid out what the group's main focus is (CoAP and DTLS) but >> allowed exploration on whether solutions fit other purposes as well. >> The reason that I care about this is that I have worked on and want to >> work on data object security, as well as transport layer security. It >> is not clear to me why an authorisation solution needs to restrict >> itself to being used on the latter only. > I understand, but I think it's always been the intent for this work to > start at the App layer only, and to consider looking at other > protocols and layers later. I would want us to get this work done > first in any case, and then re-charter to go further. > > If you disagree with that plan, let's talk about it and see where it brings us. > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > From nobody Wed May 14 00:09:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A0E1A0040; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:09:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sbm_X8rVYi2j; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fsmsg2.sics.se (fsmsg2.sics.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:3a:1:250:56ff:fea9:52ad]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7D51A027A; Wed, 14 May 2014 00:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (fsmsg2 [127.0.0.1]) by fsmsg2.sics.se (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s4E74paU011201; Wed, 14 May 2014 09:09:26 +0200 Received: from letter.sics.se (letter.sics.se [193.10.64.6]) by fsmsg2.sics.se with ESMTP id 1kppjum1m5-1; Wed, 14 May 2014 09:09:26 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.108] (unknown [85.235.11.178]) (Authenticated sender: ludwig@sics.se) by letter.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0A19400E2; Wed, 14 May 2014 09:09:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <537316A6.30809@sics.se> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 09:09:26 +0200 From: Ludwig Seitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'The IESG'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030003090301060106090609" X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.96, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-05-14_02:2014-05-13,2014-05-14,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/758NS6c_umX2jlJz1XsGXsTaqhQ Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 07:09:50 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030003090301060106090609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/13/2014 10:07 PM, Likepeng wrote: >> How about... >=20 >> Other applications protocol with their related transport protocols, an= d other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope. >=20 > Looks good to me. >=20 > Would this place work with CoAP + Object Security (instead of DTLS) out of scope? /Ludwig --=20 Ludwig Seitz, PhD SICS Swedish ICT AB Ideon Science Park Building Beta 2 Scheelev=C3=A4gen 17 SE-223 70 Lund Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51 http://www.sics.se --------------ms030003090301060106090609 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMVDCC BhgwggUAoAMCAQICAwiRTjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBjDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNV BAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRl IFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlh dGUgQ2xpZW50IENBMB4XDTE0MDEwNzA3MjgzNVoXDTE1MDEwNzEyNTgyMlowODEXMBUGA1UE AwwObHVkd2lnQHNpY3Muc2UxHTAbBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDmx1ZHdpZ0BzaWNzLnNlMIIBIjAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAnLm1tc30QxHa9wtdVjC3NgxjLJicnccm0HD+ 1X16kPMKGvwps8F1oDhYn7jXIe46p1AuJMzLK0GIioE4JwxCFGdvpz7cg2xyTyrdBVUzSqez Dfqt4FOJq6hrdrIMS8MHEzl7Jk02gv9cTn/pHQvDpkiThRpbSLU5mlMqtEQ8gDQY5YyBX0Mv 5qculV08I2JU8HEeTt1oeqhvBImgQfOVYMDatHlWHUVVrmYd6iIo+cuiUGd5kiA0XuaLYX0E oCoao/z5Wg9U0sQlx0hl4r96Q+NdoZZ1prfts3qtyBzJ2hu135aikigzJ6sueWHv/jbISUek tOMm0xkx1GOqqWtEAwIDAQABo4IC1DCCAtAwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBLAwHQYD VR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRZmjjBh8N3klra+mVQgC00 pl68ZTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6WNU7y1LhRgjAZBgNVHREEEjAQgQ5sdWR3 aWdAc2ljcy5zZTCCAUwGA1UdIASCAUMwggE/MIIBOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgMwggEqMC4GCCsG AQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMIH3BggrBgEFBQcC AjCB6jAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgEBGoG+VGhpcyBj ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSB3YXMgaXNzdWVkIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQ2xhc3MgMSBWYWxpZGF0 aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgU3RhcnRDb20gQ0EgcG9saWN5LCByZWxpYW5jZSBv bmx5IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcHVycG9zZSBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSByZWx5 aW5nIHBhcnR5IG9ibGlnYXRpb25zLjA2BgNVHR8ELzAtMCugKaAnhiVodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jcnR1MS1jcmwuY3JsMIGOBggrBgEFBQcBAQSBgTB/MDkGCCsGAQUFBzAB hi1odHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc3ViL2NsYXNzMS9jbGllbnQvY2EwQgYIKwYB BQUHMAKGNmh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3N1Yi5jbGFzczEuY2xpZW50 LmNhLmNydDAjBgNVHRIEHDAahhhodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS8wDQYJKoZIhvcN AQELBQADggEBAHqEYmtWr83S+iLXE97KBnHJZiMr6PMuLKxmh0o6UJJwKgf+KTP2czxRnPSI +whuqfQZdmz6g3A2K8AooMU0RXrzncnX1c4826APdnXkRxnGQxtZXI1wuhPn4z7iDKZ6ij9u K5Pfn10JL/ERDig2qJQbqvhtIAx0RY7y7r+hLMvgXVq9mf3WRJYmGQeFW+N9t5Z1eEwG4m9R KAZm0fnfeDn/Ai4kmxTckBH7dZwW2lTtwQqQ4su+PGCJ0e9ndBLpvTqaYGSAl+L7PO7vxPhS /cS67Xa6BtnYJLTr3MaGXaN+CEUFSfwQHa9DKcAqh3kldErI3kCvnot0CigBl4aILOEwggY0 MIIEHKADAgECAgEeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMH0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMSkwJwYDVQQDEyBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0wNzEw MjQyMTAxNTVaFw0xNzEwMjQyMTAxNTVaMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3Rh cnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmlu ZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDHCYPMzi3YGrEppC4Tq5a+ ijKDjKaIQZZVR63UbxIP6uq/I0fhCu+cQhoUfE6ERKKnu8zPf1Jwuk0tsvVCk6U9b+0UjM0d Lep3ZdE1gblK/1FwYT5Pipsu2yOMluLqwvsuz9/9f1+1PKHG/FaR/wpbfuIqu54qzHDYeqiU fsYzoVflR80DAC7hmJ+SmZnNTWyUGHJbBpA8Q89lGxahNvuryGaC/o2/ceD2uYDX9U8Eg5Dp IpGQdcbQeGarV04WgAUjjXX5r/2dabmtxWMZwhZna//jdiSyrrSMTGKkDiXm6/3/4ebfeZuC YKzN2P8O2F/Xe2AC/Y7zeEsnR7FOp+uXAgMBAAGjggGtMIIBqTAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/ MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUU3Ltkpzg2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4UYIwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUTgvvGqRAW6UXaYcwyjRoQ9BBrvIwZgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEWjBYMCcGCCsGAQUFBzAB hhtodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vY2EwLQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGIWh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNydDBbBgNVHR8EVDBSMCegJaAjhiFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zZnNjYS5jcmwwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nm c2NhLmNybDCBgAYDVR0gBHkwdzB1BgsrBgEEAYG1NwECATBmMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRw Oi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMDQGCCsGAQUFBwIBFihodHRwOi8vd3d3 LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9pbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUucGRmMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQAKgwh9 eKssBly4Y4xerhy5I3dNoXHYfYa8PlVLL/qtXnkFgdtY1o95CfegFJTwqBBmf8pyTUnFsukD FUI22zF5bVHzuJ+GxhnSqN2sD1qetbYwBYK2iyYA5Pg7Er1A+hKMIzEzcduRkIMmCeUTyMyi kfbUFvIBivtvkR8ZFAk22BZy+pJfAoedO61HTz4qSfQoCRcLN5A0t4DkuVhTMXIzuQ8Cnykh ExD6x4e6ebIbrjZLb7L+ocR0y4YjCl/Pd4MXU91y0vTipgr/O75CDUHDRHCCKBVmz/Rzkc/b 970MEeHt5LC3NiWTgBSvrLEuVzBKM586YoRD9Dy3OHQgWI270g+5MYA8GfgI/EPT5G7xPbCD z+zjdH89PeR3U4So4lSXur6H6vp+m9TQXPF3a0LwZrp8MQ+Z77U1uL7TelWO5lApsbAonrqA SfTpaprFVkL4nyGH+NHST2ZJPWIBk81i6Vw0ny0qZW2Niy/QvVNKbb43A43ny076khXO7cNb BIRdJ/6qQNq9Bqb5C0Q5nEsFcj75oxQRqlKf6TcvGbjxkJh8BYtv9ePsXklAxtm8J7GCUBth HSQgepbkOexhJ0wP8imUkyiPHQ0GvEnd83129fZjoEhdGwXV27ioRKbj/cIq7JRXun0NbeY+ UdMYu9jGfIpDLtUUGSgsg2zMGs5R4jGCA90wggPZAgEBMIGUMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEW MBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlm aWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVy bWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwiRTjAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIICHTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNDA1MTQwNzA5MjZaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEW BBR91rTM/Eb6WpwJS2o/PrCnHjH77jBsBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjAL BglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFA MAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGlBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgZcwgZQwgYwxCzAJBgNV BAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRh bCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1h cnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDCJFOMIGnBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBl6CBlDCB jDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3Vy ZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNz IDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgMIkU4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAE ggEAWydPOCnqjMiqNjp3Us0SWO0YHIOWIcjqFD38LqNHtkUTfbtvPEEmU1FUacPfJqdXld9p GW6YRNEUpxpUJL5GHSyNtl0BcU2swCtpwu5j0KnrsE7ksCwWQ7YIk+4cY0zElLFTUhF51Il4 pNwvC5kMD2yKhV9cLCBwXzwYscVk75Aaumj+pI6h5Qt5mGVzse6mPh5/h3GTkR1ht1nQrGht nI1HJ1GNgy2HiDPLFjAB1fU/pdswdxqtsYjKV+a9DdFf0tzinW2vhJItbnqUVSdU0E4n8Z0/ EANn+YXX45FsP3fsVOppaimMiYszhKEt+2Pl/6mwvjDGiMfzBrbDfqmjFwAAAAAAAA== --------------ms030003090301060106090609-- From nobody Wed May 14 03:11:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1F61A027E; Wed, 14 May 2014 03:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QEN5KXjUUgTk; Wed, 14 May 2014 03:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFA31A0286; Wed, 14 May 2014 03:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4EAAw14011758; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:10:58 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4EA7CKx008499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 14 May 2014 11:10:57 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "=?windows-1257?Q?'G=F6ran_Selander'?=" , "'The IESG'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 11:10:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFYqhR1P2teX39lTaQQdQZOocGTfQI6PV1BnBuTBQA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1017-20692.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--24.544-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--24.544-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: vbSD0OnL8/If6YnGSOQ/D9cjCbPZgQnFmGSSol4Uei3adW4iYSMjUTrz 6vBw5SSAqmgjSDIYwlBcVzwg4Kh5WMPXVOccBDU9mlaAItiONP0R5c83KIxTTuOxOq7LQlGLY++ fpiVGmNpUf25/kaptsqXoNamM2A0R0665Oh56EW90CDjJ3XioBNIv4RV84lHTPhIKSXWJQNhE3T cb0gs0MV/lAZT9qxFxyvkBV2KfhrVH0kIUV2sxhbMjW/sniEQKXs5nqGvDCfNbu83G82vQu2cZV 1x3JDehpetF1QuOC1268ojoRbcOaVcotqvUhZyqnW/laudJFeFPn74Ug5EKEKw/jGAHkc3fmdwC icMl+qaI7qXZddSBHVMvPRdRXf+lVtcjhqfNkx60sO72q2op4aKaxHqGRwkCMBIR1uSlQM/sytF qJqEQlvxtBEzZZpIc7whXo7H1DN8LbigRnpKlKT4yqD4LKu3A Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/7T4uA0Uat3Hc-C3ZfdM4gXhY7z4 Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 10:11:11 -0000 I have no attachment to the specific transports, and would be happy with = the constraint being voiced as security or application layer protocols. My mention of DTLS and TLS was just picking up the text that was already = there. A > -----Original Message----- > From: G=F6ran Selander [mailto:goran.selander@ericsson.com] > Sent: 14 May 2014 06:25 > To: Adrian Farrel; The IESG > Cc: ace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: = (with BLOCK) >=20 > Adrian, and all >=20 > On 13/05/14 13:37, "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > > > >Reading the charter I don't see clearly that this work is limited to > >specific protocols or specific places in the stack. I sense that the > >intention is not to work on all protocols in constrained environments > >but I don't think that is what the text actually says. I think that > >the intention is to limit the work to the applications protocols with > >their related transport protocols (withness CoAP and HTTP with DTLS > >and TLS). Could this be called out more specifically? > > >=20 > I understand the concern that the work would not be sufficiently = focused > unless restricting to specific protocols or protocol layers. I=B9m = fine with > restricting to HTTP and CoAP for access to resources, but I like to > understand exactly what is meant by limiting the work to TLS/DTLS. >=20 > As I understand the problem, it is about a multi-party protocol where = a > third party supports a client and a server, which are constrained, to > perform authenticated and authorized access. The third party is = assumed to > have established a key/security association at least with the server = to > perform this. Compare section 1 of > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tschofenig-ace-overview-00 >=20 >=20 > The fact that the client and server are constrained implies in = particular > that a DTLS handshake has a significant performance impact. If we = really > want it to support the constrained devices, we would use the = established > security association(s) and allow the third party to also be involved = in > authentication and key establishment between client and resource = server. > Compare e.g. OAuth 2.0 MAC Tokens > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-http-mac-04 >=20 > Now, the 00-01 version of the charter says: >=20 > "Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been = made, > the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also > applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main > protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In > particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and = TLS > will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP > with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, > are out of scope." >=20 > When I first read =B3other protocols =D0 are out of scope" I wondered = if this > multi-party protocol mentioned above is at all in scope. Maybe we = could > reformulate to make this clear? >=20 > Assuming that the multi-party protocol is in scope, what is this = protocol > allowed to do? Only support with authorization information, or also > support client-server with authentication and/or key establishment? >=20 > If the latter is true, must the client-server anyway run DTLS? Or can = the > multi-party protocol in some aspect replace overlapping functionality = in > DTLS (and thereby reduce its performance impact)? >=20 >=20 > G=F6ran >=20 From nobody Wed May 14 06:12:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49761A007D; Wed, 14 May 2014 06:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9qBGq49Vg7L0; Wed, 14 May 2014 06:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0451A0085; Wed, 14 May 2014 06:12:15 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f798c6d000001521-99-53736ba8997c Received: from ESESSHC012.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7D.A2.05409.8AB63735; Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC012.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.54]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:07 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'The IESG' Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/GZN+O86iEW0aDG4/qxYbMI5s/jGAAgAAucYCAAFQlgA== Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 13:12:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.147] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4A6B84576A1C3343840802A336374CA7@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje6K7OJgg2ntGhbfv/UwW/zoucFs MePPRGYHZo8lS34yeazYvJIxgCmKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK+PnbL+CGcYVDYvPMjYwfjDsYuTk kBAwkVj4aikbhC0mceHeeiCbi0NI4CijxLtjk9ghnMWMEpf/f2QBqWITcJF40PCICcQWEfCW uLz9PVicWUBRYt2cPrC4sECQxNkzm5i7GDmAaoIlFr91hih3kmj+/QWsnEVAVeLQ29lgNq+A hcSNw6cYQWwhgQWMEmdelIPYnALWEvNvNrCC2IxAx30/tYYJYpW4xK0n85kgjhaQWLLnPDOE LSrx8vE/sHpRAT2Jd8dBajiA4koS07amgZjMApoS63fpQ0yxltjSeQnu+CndD9khrhGUODnz CcsERolZSJbNQuiehaR7FpLuWUi6FzCyrmIULU4tTspNNzLWSy3KTC4uzs/Ty0st2cQIjMSD W36r7mC8/MbxEKMAB6MSD++C2KJgIdbEsuLK3EOM0hwsSuK8X275BAsJpCeWpGanphakFsUX leakFh9iZOLglGpgzCwtnME3M8L4XVfkOv4yCbfpEsGu64w/Nhsc+/36c/e570J+D5td+OVW 9Hjy/a+4v51jx2POa9aOu/nP/n38kZfbNY1p/sOkWuW9atLvA3fMlbCU4M/cdyPzjteL0zPN XzypPrDL157dPPh+oNy5O7P7b1puWtb1n4/5puutxHefzqsoMsWnK7EUZyQaajEXFScCAJsx 90ilAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/GIODo01IOCsZ2-ySwFG7vgxlsP0 Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 13:12:19 -0000 QWRyaWFuLCB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb24uDQoNCg0KSSBkb27igJl0IHdhbnQgdG8g cmVvcGVuIHRoaXMsIGJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCBjaGFuZ2VzIGFyZSBhIGJp dA0KbWlzbGVhZGluZywgaW4gcGFydGljdWxhcg0KDQoiTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSB3b3JrIGlzIGxp bWl0ZWQgdG8gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4gT3RoZXINCmFwcGxpY2F0 aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoIHRoZWlyIHJlbGF0ZWQNCnRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFu ZCBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjaywgYXJlDQpvdXQg b2Ygc2NvcGUu4oCdDQoNClRoZXJlIGlzIGF0IGxlYXN0IHRoZSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0eSBwcm90b2Nv bCAocmVmZXJlbmNlZCB0byBhcyBhcyDigJxFeGlzdGluZw0KYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1 dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xz4oCdIGluIHRoZSBwcmVjZWRpbmcgcGFyYWdyYXBoIG9mDQp0 aGUgY2hhcnRlcikgaW4gc2NvcGUuIEl0cyBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IG1heSBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSBj b21wbGVtZW50IG9yDQpvdmVybGFwIERUTFMvVExTIChlLmcuIHByb3ZpZGluZyBrZXlzLCBzZWN1 cml0eSBjb250ZXh0IGV0Yy4pIElmIHdlDQpjb25zaWRlciB0aGlzIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkgb3V0 IG9mIHNjb3BlIGF0IHRoaXMgc3RhZ2Ugd2UgYXJlIG1ha2luZyBhDQpzYWZlIGJldCB0aGF0IHRo ZSBzb2x1dGlvbiB3aWxsIG5vdCBiZSBvcHRpbWFsIGZvciBjb25zdHJhaW5lZA0KZW52aXJvbm1l bnRzLg0KDQpTbywgdGhlIGxpbWl0YXRpb24gdG8gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCBpcyBmaW5lLiBEVExT IGFuZCBUTFMgYXMgd29ya2luZw0KYXNzdW1wdGlvbi9kZWZhdWx0IHNlY3VyaXR5IHByb3RvY29s IGlzIE9LLCBidXQgSSB0aGluayB3ZSBzaG91bGQgYmUgb3Blbg0KdG8gb3B0aW1pc2F0aW9ucy4N Cg0KV2hhdCBkbyBvdGhlcnMgdGhpbmsgYWJvdXQgdGhpcz8NCg0KDQpHw7ZyYW4NCg0KDQoNCg0K T24gMTQvMDUvMTQgMTI6MTAsICJBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsIiA8YWRyaWFuQG9sZGRvZy5jby51az4g d3JvdGU6DQoNCj5JIGhhdmUgbm8gYXR0YWNobWVudCB0byB0aGUgc3BlY2lmaWMgdHJhbnNwb3J0 cywgYW5kIHdvdWxkIGJlIGhhcHB5IHdpdGgNCj50aGUNCj5jb25zdHJhaW50IGJlaW5nIHZvaWNl ZCBhcyBzZWN1cml0eSBvciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBsYXllciBwcm90b2NvbHMuDQo+DQo+TXkgbWVu dGlvbiBvZiBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgd2FzIGp1c3QgcGlja2luZyB1cCB0aGUgdGV4dCB0aGF0IHdh cyBhbHJlYWR5DQo+dGhlcmUuDQo+DQo+QQ0KPg0KPj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t LS0NCj4+IEZyb206IEfDtnJhbiBTZWxhbmRlciBbbWFpbHRvOmdvcmFuLnNlbGFuZGVyQGVyaWNz c29uLmNvbV0NCj4+IFNlbnQ6IDE0IE1heSAyMDE0IDA2OjI1DQo+PiBUbzogQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJl bDsgVGhlIElFU0cNCj4+IENjOiBhY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbQWNlXSBB ZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsJ3MgQmxvY2sgb24gY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0wMC0wMDoNCj4+KHdpdGgN Cj5CTE9DSykNCj4+IA0KPj4gQWRyaWFuLCBhbmQgYWxsDQo+PiANCj4+IE9uIDEzLzA1LzE0IDEz OjM3LCAiQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cuY28udWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gPg0K Pj4gPlJlYWRpbmcgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgY2xlYXJseSB0aGF0IHRoaXMgd29y ayBpcyBsaW1pdGVkIHRvDQo+PiA+c3BlY2lmaWMgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG9yIHNwZWNpZmljIHBsYWNl cyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2suIEkgc2Vuc2UgdGhhdCB0aGUNCj4+ID5pbnRlbnRpb24gaXMgbm90IHRv IHdvcmsgb24gYWxsIHByb3RvY29scyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMNCj4+ID5i dXQgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGF0IGlzIHdoYXQgdGhlIHRleHQgYWN0dWFsbHkgc2F5cy4gSSB0 aGluayB0aGF0DQo+PiA+dGhlIGludGVudGlvbiBpcyB0byBsaW1pdCB0aGUgd29yayB0byB0aGUg YXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoDQo+PiA+dGhlaXIgcmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQg cHJvdG9jb2xzICh3aXRobmVzcyBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUw0KPj4gPmFuZCBUTFMp LiBDb3VsZCB0aGlzIGJlIGNhbGxlZCBvdXQgbW9yZSBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHk/DQo+PiA+DQo+PiAN Cj4+IEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGUgY29uY2VybiB0aGF0IHRoZSB3b3JrIHdvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBz dWZmaWNpZW50bHkgZm9jdXNlZA0KPj4gdW5sZXNzIHJlc3RyaWN0aW5nIHRvIHNwZWNpZmljIHBy b3RvY29scyBvciBwcm90b2NvbCBsYXllcnMuIEnCuW0gZmluZQ0KPj53aXRoDQo+PiByZXN0cmlj dGluZyB0byBIVFRQIGFuZCBDb0FQIGZvciBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gcmVzb3VyY2VzLCBidXQgSSBsaWtl IHRvDQo+PiB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIGV4YWN0bHkgd2hhdCBpcyBtZWFudCBieSBsaW1pdGluZyB0aGUg d29yayB0byBUTFMvRFRMUy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gQXMgSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtLCBp dCBpcyBhYm91dCBhIG11bHRpLXBhcnR5IHByb3RvY29sIHdoZXJlIGENCj4+IHRoaXJkIHBhcnR5 IHN1cHBvcnRzIGEgY2xpZW50IGFuZCBhIHNlcnZlciwgd2hpY2ggYXJlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkLCB0 bw0KPj4gcGVyZm9ybSBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGVkIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemVkIGFjY2Vzcy4gVGhlIHRo aXJkIHBhcnR5IGlzIGFzc3VtZWQNCj4+dG8NCj4+IGhhdmUgZXN0YWJsaXNoZWQgYSBrZXkvc2Vj dXJpdHkgYXNzb2NpYXRpb24gYXQgbGVhc3Qgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2VydmVyIHRvDQo+PiBwZXJmb3Jt IHRoaXMuIENvbXBhcmUgc2VjdGlvbiAxIG9mDQo+PiBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRt bC9kcmFmdC10c2Nob2ZlbmlnLWFjZS1vdmVydmlldy0wMA0KPj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IFRoZSBmYWN0 IHRoYXQgdGhlIGNsaWVudCBhbmQgc2VydmVyIGFyZSBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBpbXBsaWVzIGluDQo+ PnBhcnRpY3VsYXINCj4+IHRoYXQgYSBEVExTIGhhbmRzaGFrZSBoYXMgYSBzaWduaWZpY2FudCBw ZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBpbXBhY3QuIElmIHdlIHJlYWxseQ0KPj4gd2FudCBpdCB0byBzdXBwb3J0IHRo ZSBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2VzLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCB1c2UgdGhlIGVzdGFibGlzaGVkDQo+PiBz ZWN1cml0eSBhc3NvY2lhdGlvbihzKSBhbmQgYWxsb3cgdGhlIHRoaXJkIHBhcnR5IHRvIGFsc28g YmUgaW52b2x2ZWQgaW4NCj4+IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBrZXkgZXN0YWJsaXNobWVudCBi ZXR3ZWVuIGNsaWVudCBhbmQgcmVzb3VyY2Ugc2VydmVyLg0KPj4gQ29tcGFyZSBlLmcuIE9BdXRo IDIuMCBNQUMgVG9rZW5zDQo+PiBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRm LW9hdXRoLXYyLWh0dHAtbWFjLTA0DQo+PiANCj4+IE5vdywgdGhlIDAwLTAxIHZlcnNpb24gb2Yg dGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgc2F5czoNCj4+IA0KPj4gIk9uY2UgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgaW4gaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcg c3VpdGFibGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBoYXMgYmVlbg0KPj5tYWRlLA0KPj4gdGhlIHdv cmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCB2ZXJpZnkgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgc2FtZSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGFyZSBh bHNvDQo+PiBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIGJleW9uZCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIENvQVAgYW5kIERUTFMsIHdoaWNo IGFyZSB0aGUgdHdvIG1haW4NCj4+IHByb3RvY29scyB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBm b3IgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcy4gSW4NCj4+IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRv IHVzZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIG92ZXIgSFRUUCBhbmQgVExTDQo+PiB3aWxsIGJl IGludmVzdGlnYXRlZC4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSB3b3JrIGlzIGxpbWl0ZWQgdG8gQ29BUCBhbmQg SFRUUA0KPj4gd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMuIE90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3 aXRoIHRoZWlyIHJlbGF0ZWQNCj4+IHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFuZCBvdGhlciBwcm90 b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjaywNCj4+IGFyZSBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUu Ig0KPj4gDQo+PiBXaGVuIEkgZmlyc3QgcmVhZCDCs290aGVyIHByb3RvY29scyDFoCBhcmUgb3V0 IG9mIHNjb3BlIiBJIHdvbmRlcmVkIGlmDQo+PnRoaXMNCj4+IG11bHRpLXBhcnR5IHByb3RvY29s IG1lbnRpb25lZCBhYm92ZSBpcyBhdCBhbGwgaW4gc2NvcGUuIE1heWJlIHdlIGNvdWxkDQo+PiBy ZWZvcm11bGF0ZSB0byBtYWtlIHRoaXMgY2xlYXI/DQo+PiANCj4+IEFzc3VtaW5nIHRoYXQgdGhl IG11bHRpLXBhcnR5IHByb3RvY29sIGlzIGluIHNjb3BlLCB3aGF0IGlzIHRoaXMNCj4+cHJvdG9j b2wNCj4+IGFsbG93ZWQgdG8gZG8/IE9ubHkgc3VwcG9ydCB3aXRoIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gaW5m b3JtYXRpb24sIG9yIGFsc28NCj4+IHN1cHBvcnQgY2xpZW50LXNlcnZlciB3aXRoIGF1dGhlbnRp Y2F0aW9uIGFuZC9vciBrZXkgZXN0YWJsaXNobWVudD8NCj4+IA0KPj4gSWYgdGhlIGxhdHRlciBp cyB0cnVlLCBtdXN0IHRoZSBjbGllbnQtc2VydmVyIGFueXdheSBydW4gRFRMUz8gT3IgY2FuDQo+ PnRoZQ0KPj4gbXVsdGktcGFydHkgcHJvdG9jb2wgaW4gc29tZSBhc3BlY3QgcmVwbGFjZSBvdmVy bGFwcGluZyBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IGluDQo+PiBEVExTIChhbmQgdGhlcmVieSByZWR1Y2UgaXRz IHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIGltcGFjdCk/DQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gR8O2cmFuDQo+PiANCj4NCj4NCg0K From nobody Wed May 14 07:47:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF9A1A0103; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:47:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9zobq4s6-z-7; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x22b.google.com (mail-qc0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A171A0095; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id x13so3019558qcv.30 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:46:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=74a9cXk8OWe0SQQ3FTZMQrVDPeHs7p+yPxrEE2GlaO0=; b=JC39QeaKHaDfDxkXg/LyiMxd8zcykowzEm1NuvoCo5lOPr4vBkA/XIkvuHvam/3ltD oZM0Datlumq7XQX8EFdQB00n2Tae4aYHXYxGfGjxJAYorkrmMIIyqAfJ/fxLHbxIE9BC Zka//YLdmZjTtOpSkqV7YK30up6EE7nziw2Bv5WJ1lGOvoNDmsefBxZsLTIWYlXhJAmO gzDkZud7qon1bowNRLgSzzzA3KNpBhra0nFr+dpbrBfWIAW+8FZoHXCcLhTXYYpRiDLE xVqDlkXpohZQZeMZ0A7c9oQvzdOsKje5tDUjT+rvXTSd3f6/0vpzgJeS1lqUWTJ3j731 S9ig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.83.209 with SMTP id j75mr6381662qgd.42.1400078812490; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.137.10 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:46:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 10:46:52 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: u2qdm1q_OzPWdRIZt8u5qReG45U Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/rZHulTdrjK-828Zc3DfHdfDICAg Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 14:47:00 -0000 > I don't want to reopen this, but I think that the latest changes are a bit > misleading, in particular > > "Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other > application protocols with their related > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are > out of scope." > > There is at least the multi-party protocol (referenced to as as "Existing > authentication and authorization protocols" in the preceding paragraph of > the charter) in scope. Its functionality may potentially complement or > overlap DTLS/TLS (e.g. providing keys, security context etc.) If we > consider this functionality out of scope at this stage we are making a > safe bet that the solution will not be optimal for constrained > environments. > > So, the limitation to CoAP and HTTP is fine. DTLS and TLS as working > assumption/default security protocol is OK, but I think we should be open > to optimisations. I think you make a reasonable point: we've perhaps gone too far in the attempt to restrict the layers we're working on -- there's a difference between focusing on DTLS and TLS... and putting consideration of anything else out of scope. On the other hand, we *do* want the WG to focus its work on the initial solution for now, and not spend its time veering off. Perhaps this works better?: NEW Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at other layers in the stack are out of scope. END Barry From nobody Wed May 14 07:56:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F6B1A00A6; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AYf-iWJoAelU; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x230.google.com (mail-lb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3C71A008F; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id p9so1523064lbv.35 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6I3lIKKgyu0tOWYsI4G7UEgrpF6cu0Kbmb4h5mmm9CI=; b=PA4EIirlhIxHTy3OZ1kAO5WHypp2nAwi8cJtCunGteSyuEfuaD4W4zriIoCbfmcGaz w8IQubEXUbBu66h6KctuL79H/IdgzTQht/EvPmYcrDzTZEfmNfa11bkJcEo9hsBExRzK JSm65Y4z3r2PAFe8cr5OKeBFX4tSHoHDmO1LUUhCZJNyEhzOA0a7m68sEE66gmoAaxmP oKaVpi2QdA+yDn6p120PS3zBA/t9KcHA/wY65eLCoImQMobIhAdrw0HbT6N6JPIbft0Y aHedeLvXu7ePJwknMv3qTLc1za6pCimUxlqa+Z/6qjhTk8Nw6dlU7+9qgctH6eW+Dd7v aa7A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.155.105 with SMTP id vv9mr2657203lbb.29.1400079373448; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.70.165 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2014 07:56:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 09:56:13 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Barry Leiba Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011832a2b63bf104f95d6178 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/L8VBCjfqw5FOwS3I1ZFvGz06MQ4 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 14:56:23 -0000 --089e011832a2b63bf104f95d6178 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: > > I don't want to reopen this, but I think that the latest changes are a > bit > > misleading, in particular > > > > "Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other > > application protocols with their related > > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, > are > > out of scope." > > > > There is at least the multi-party protocol (referenced to as as "Existing > > authentication and authorization protocols" in the preceding paragraph of > > the charter) in scope. Its functionality may potentially complement or > > overlap DTLS/TLS (e.g. providing keys, security context etc.) If we > > consider this functionality out of scope at this stage we are making a > > safe bet that the solution will not be optimal for constrained > > environments. > > > > So, the limitation to CoAP and HTTP is fine. DTLS and TLS as working > > assumption/default security protocol is OK, but I think we should be open > > to optimisations. > > I think you make a reasonable point: we've perhaps gone too far in the > attempt to restrict the layers we're working on -- there's a > difference between focusing on DTLS and TLS... and putting > consideration of anything else out of scope. On the other hand, we > *do* want the WG to focus its work on the initial solution for now, > and not spend its time veering off. > > Perhaps this works better?: > > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at other > layers in the stack are out of scope. > END > > Barry > > I support this. Why not allow EAP? Regards, Behcet > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --089e011832a2b63bf104f95d6178 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@compute= r.org> wrote:
> I don't want to reopen this, but I think tha= t the latest changes are a bit
> misleading, in particular
>
> "Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS= . Other
> application protocols with their related
> transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack,= are
> out of scope."
>
> There is at least the multi-party protocol (referenced to as as "= Existing
> authentication and authorization protocols" in the preceding para= graph of
> the charter) in scope. Its functionality may potentially complement or=
> overlap DTLS/TLS (e.g. providing keys, security context etc.) If we > consider this functionality out of scope at this stage we are making a=
> safe bet that the solution will not be optimal for constrained
> environments.
>
> So, the limitation to CoAP and HTTP is fine. DTLS and TLS as working > assumption/default security protocol is OK, but I think we should be o= pen
> to optimisations.

I think you make a reasonable point: we've perhaps gone too far i= n the
attempt to restrict the layers we're working on -- there's a
difference between focusing on DTLS and TLS... and putting
consideration of anything else out of scope. =C2=A0On the other hand, we *do* want the WG to focus its work on the initial solution for now,
and not spend its time veering off.

Perhaps this works better?:

NEW
Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary
focus is maintained. =C2=A0Other application protocols and protocols at oth= er
layers in the stack are out of scope.
END

Barry

=C2=A0
I support this.
Why not allow EAP?<= /div>
=C2=A0
Regards,
=C2=A0
Behcet=C2=A0=
_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--089e011832a2b63bf104f95d6178-- From nobody Wed May 14 08:15:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E031A02B8; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:15:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tmGT0Z7hAzNF; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679D01A02B4; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79a86d0000010e9-9b-53738893fcbf Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A7.93.04329.39883735; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:15:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.32]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:15:30 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: Barry Leiba Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/GZN+O86iEW0aDG4/qxYbMI5s/jGAAgAAucYCAAFQlgP//+PIAgAAphoA= Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:15:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje6UjuJgg2dz2Sy+f+thtvjRc4PZ 4tDiS6wWM/5MZHZg8WhZ1cvssWTJTyaPFZtXMgYwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBl/OpbwF7wnLei b59UA2MndxcjJ4eEgInEjL4Z7BC2mMSFe+vZuhi5OIQEjjJKPN/0nxXCWcwo8frKelaQKjYB V4kDD94xgdgiApoSzz9PAbOZBbIkNv55zgxiCwsESZw9swnI5gCqCZZY/NYZwvSTOLpJDqSC RUBV4uDth2ATeQUsJJpmbGUBsYUEpjFJfHinBWJzCgRKLL/ZCxZnBLrt+6k1UJvEJW49mc8E cbOAxJI955khbFGJl4//gc0UFdCTeHccpkZR4ur05VC9ehI3pk5hg7CtJU6fWAsV15ZYtvA1 M8Q9ghInZz5hmcAoMQvJullI2mchaZ+FpH0WkvYFjKyrGEWLU4uLc9ONjPRSizKTi4vz8/Ty Uks2MQIj9OCW31Y7GA8+dzzEKMDBqMTDuyC2KFiINbGsuDL3EKM0B4uSOO+kRe7BQgLpiSWp 2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODiBURjiWea6a/IUiyY1sYgDlhn9Jvtz7vSoPWuYLRCSFJRgx8as +sBQ7JGVyvZlcsbXrkdfq+u2yoozNLrKtq4yXODOw9PLTjatqY/yYTVktRGdFRzC7JTvJKpU 8mjLvmLzL06FZx5e+VXS89ClZq8Ym/wdk3xPPce/y5QWr1jPFCBr78f+IcVZiaU4I9FQi7mo OBEAAVu7lLECAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/czps6LiWnxAgFpAHIUOEJsNGzNA Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:15:41 -0000 On 14/05/14 16:46, "Barry Leiba" wrote: >> I don't want to reopen this, but I think that the latest changes are a >>bit >> misleading, in particular >> >> "Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other >> application protocols with their related >> transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, >>are >> out of scope." >> >> There is at least the multi-party protocol (referenced to as as >>"Existing >> authentication and authorization protocols" in the preceding paragraph >>of >> the charter) in scope. Its functionality may potentially complement or >> overlap DTLS/TLS (e.g. providing keys, security context etc.) If we >> consider this functionality out of scope at this stage we are making a >> safe bet that the solution will not be optimal for constrained >> environments. >> >> So, the limitation to CoAP and HTTP is fine. DTLS and TLS as working >> assumption/default security protocol is OK, but I think we should be >>open >> to optimisations. > >I think you make a reasonable point: we've perhaps gone too far in the >attempt to restrict the layers we're working on -- there's a >difference between focusing on DTLS and TLS... and putting >consideration of anything else out of scope. On the other hand, we >*do* want the WG to focus its work on the initial solution for now, >and not spend its time veering off. > >Perhaps this works better?: > >NEW >Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. >Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary >focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at other >layers in the stack are out of scope. >END Fine by me. G=F6ran From nobody Wed May 14 08:33:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E941A00A6; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:33:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o1JzDsWIM2wx; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339781A02B3; Wed, 14 May 2014 08:33:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4EFXd73000603; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:33:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.1.7] (reingewinn.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.123]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B7F791D21; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:33:38 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 17:33:38 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 421774418.001335-72a4c1f20a541395eb1bead576e1bef8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> To: sarikaya@ieee.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/OaB7Zx2H9UMg40zCP0n7C7pn_hw Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Barry Leiba , "ace@ietf.org" , The IESG , =?windows-1252?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:33:51 -0000 On 14 May 2014, at 16:56, Behcet Sarikaya = wrote: > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at = other > layers in the stack are out of scope. > END >=20 > Barry >=20 > =20 > I support this. > Why not allow EAP? The question is a good summary of a potential problem with the new text = above (as much as I support what it is trying to do) =97 the point of = ACE is *not* to cover everybody=92s favorite security protocol. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From nobody Wed May 14 11:07:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2AF71A00A6; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPVK25OlqDdb; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D721A00E5; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4EI7KS8006409; Wed, 14 May 2014 19:07:20 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4EI7HHi006392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 14 May 2014 19:07:19 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Barry Leiba'" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'G=F6ran_Selander'?=" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 19:07:17 +0100 Message-ID: <012a01cf6f9f$589d49e0$09d7dda0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFYqhR1P2teX39lTaQQdQZOocGTfQI6PV1BAyftux4CZzMxHwDoQPxVm+hcdeA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1017-20694.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--10.371-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--10.371-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 6otD/cJAac04HKI/yaqRm8zWN98iBBeGGbJMFqqIm9wVlHsBDWFG3tbx wwwWZ3ntVU6j3yMPemIGZ+QglewYWreC8rmYQTzfSEQN/D/3cG5FwwTiVVDSS7KeTtOdjMy6xEK VSK1KFAdfjDU2ki1hQhb0HxLzNR+Uc+qdLaB0M48TRDzcDa8P6yTzSFehhfJr+3g863hsMpFNVM aQCulfWlAxmp8V8XyriRfq4Yku3uo7UWHrkqOW//pVg+t0N2l6Alw1lJDBMtZswlZlNmLk3izyb VqWyY2NNPgy0T0qydXAWo1W1RJRbmsl2sg/OJLnuIwLnB3Aqp1Ag1IWH8kbY5soi2XrUn/J5AP+ yqovSZmrusVRy4an8SAHAopEd76vc4+kRXNUNimWBOH9oXI/3UtaevgxzHmQAfPUexo+XxskoAx psA0Xog== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/CwNz3kyfE4-LjpZ2geNhRjw5dQk Cc: 'The IESG' , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:07:32 -0000 wfm > -----Original Message----- > From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of = Barry > Leiba > Sent: 14 May 2014 15:47 > To: G=F6ran Selander > Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; The IESG; ace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: = (with BLOCK) >=20 > > I don't want to reopen this, but I think that the latest changes are = a bit > > misleading, in particular > > > > "Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. = Other > > application protocols with their related > > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the = stack, are > > out of scope." > > > > There is at least the multi-party protocol (referenced to as as = "Existing > > authentication and authorization protocols" in the preceding = paragraph of > > the charter) in scope. Its functionality may potentially complement = or > > overlap DTLS/TLS (e.g. providing keys, security context etc.) If we > > consider this functionality out of scope at this stage we are making = a > > safe bet that the solution will not be optimal for constrained > > environments. > > > > So, the limitation to CoAP and HTTP is fine. DTLS and TLS as working > > assumption/default security protocol is OK, but I think we should be = open > > to optimisations. >=20 > I think you make a reasonable point: we've perhaps gone too far in the > attempt to restrict the layers we're working on -- there's a > difference between focusing on DTLS and TLS... and putting > consideration of anything else out of scope. On the other hand, we > *do* want the WG to focus its work on the initial solution for now, > and not spend its time veering off. >=20 > Perhaps this works better?: >=20 > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at = other > layers in the stack are out of scope. > END >=20 > Barry From nobody Wed May 14 11:27:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779631A013E; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0yE2HH_3uaDE; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com (mail-la0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF3521A0147; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id gl10so1751464lab.4 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=SJ40qFa4y3epNVKofBtd1BpXj3QolOCViQzE6TchR9c=; b=LgJ7vrbYsG/PJ99/qeDxunVdEx6DIkc0Ocn8QW3fz5mQw5/Ts6HFDdA20WMz8S6DGO H5wWoiptBZX7K9t1qwl2nOUt6ixTrT3LVp582rXs/1OHhEFNBIXCOX9JzB26Gdz3ubrr 220QViheocLgsrxmAJj/VTWMJLFL/cXfiudwUDVrX0DkzjV45X3Hikn8JgG6rlqJoiT5 sTYY7YW2qzB0XrSuQH/Qmh9MYflMvv0VpihNnn4/2/dO89fHrM4HkYoKOMwnoOxPJwHF vA55aglsvfH3zcdEEsWYYiBbz7KwOIEK9L9wlZNwOdGQVy/Sblw+QVUaVA8KoetXGJLk +txA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.189.103 with SMTP id gh7mr3450490lbc.35.1400092051604; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.70.165 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:27:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 13:27:31 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c376b263889404f9605592 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/uoPxcz8hG2RvAxLWIaFS1jJY6R8 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Barry Leiba , "ace@ietf.org" , The IESG , =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:27:40 -0000 --001a11c376b263889404f9605592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 14 May 2014, at 16:56, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > > > NEW > > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at othe= r > > layers in the stack are out of scope. > > END > > > > Barry > > > > > > I support this. > > Why not allow EAP? > > The question is a good summary of a potential problem with the new text > above (as much as I support what it is trying to do) =E2=80=94 the point = of ACE is > *not* to cover everybody=E2=80=99s favorite security protocol. > > My intention was not to ask a question, it was a comment in support of the proposed new text. Behcet > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --001a11c376b263889404f9605592 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Carsten Bormann <= ;cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 14 May 2014, at 16:56, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> wrote:
> NEW
> Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
> Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary
> focus is maintained. =C2=A0Other application protocols and protocols a= t other
> layers in the stack are out of scope.
> END
>
> Barry
>
>
> I support this.
> Why not allow EAP?

The question is a good summary of a potential problem with the new te= xt above (as much as I support what it is trying to do) =E2=80=94 the point= of ACE is *not* to cover everybody=E2=80=99s favorite security protocol.
=C2=A0
My intention was not to=C2=A0ask a q= uestion, it was a comment in support=C2=A0of the proposed new text.
=C2=A0
Behcet
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


--001a11c376b263889404f9605592-- From nobody Wed May 14 11:45:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FE51A02C4; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4il-N1ogqZFi; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x230.google.com (mail-la0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF3B1A0147; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id mc6so1752441lab.7 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=p748hMFv+8kROM5XuhNw+nBELXV609zf6wW/+PRuNgc=; b=lSSD+xxMVg1rwrl/tVmsnE6U/cIJZOYLzDSyqXpKNoxMXj7USQUA10P2TuOMgo1K40 8KfqELK96zpqqq17TVDCeQad37FCCOO3pW/SApTTfK3l4LBPFpXm6aGecqK7R76I18gX q1SvNjnCMWnJzRYqgUGYf2oJbZY9HWaVrnv2w4BmpQUi/ArUF+lNUymSpTSOWSYpYJD6 pzCJl9jkdxCbO05WqHUtwDqeCPmg4caysSNMvMlNhDBeE1TJ5ODYNTGr5zQA16qV69N5 6W1RkqFB8UmwxUzzjHKOD5nGt/RqY7iMT/oOzRpZxZlgjqP63u8oZcLKJL98swF31uRW KtAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.148.165 with SMTP id tt5mr2584024lbb.61.1400093112658; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.26.142 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2014 11:45:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <000201cf6f5c$ccc59950$6650cbf0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 14:45:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: sarikaya@ieee.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/LShfAExNpRy-dGLAfg5yWd7qYFQ Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Carsten Bormann , Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:45:23 -0000 Thank you, it appears we are all in agreement then with the update. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Behcet Sarikaya w= rote: > > > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >> On 14 May 2014, at 16:56, Behcet Sarikaya wrote= : >> >> > NEW >> > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. >> > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary >> > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at oth= er >> > layers in the stack are out of scope. >> > END >> > >> > Barry >> > >> > >> > I support this. >> > Why not allow EAP? >> >> The question is a good summary of a potential problem with the new text >> above (as much as I support what it is trying to do) =E2=80=94 the point= of ACE is >> *not* to cover everybody=E2=80=99s favorite security protocol. >> > > My intention was not to ask a question, it was a comment in support of th= e > proposed new text. > > Behcet >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Wed May 14 15:12:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135811A0305; Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVj5ptZjIV4R; Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F001A0306; Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:12:15 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/lop3Ede4pSh_V1sPfi7GTQzEONU Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 22:12:17 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-01: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reaction from the AAA-doctors. 1. I haven't been following it in detail, but it does seem rather vague. ... This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to resources in constrained environments. ... What are "resources? It seems they are applications, but the charter doesn't make that clear. Also, if the "constrained environments" are using DTLS, they don't seem that constrained to me. It looks to be a slight variation on existing technologies. e.g. we want X, Y and Z, but in situation B instead of A. So... we're going to design something completely new. On the other hand, I'm happy to see people paying attention to authentication and authorization. Too many protocols are designed to solve a problem first, and second to add security. 2. The Charter makes a number of assertions that are provably false, such as that AAA protocols are inappropriate for constrained environments. AAA protocols were deployed in the 1990s to support extremely limited NAS devices and Internet hosts with tiny fractions of the power of today's systems. Any device that can run IP can authenticate against a AAA server. Let me include the AAA-doctors in the discussion From nobody Thu May 15 01:27:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E5F1A0413; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:27:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sqmTVlUqJ1tt; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fsmsg2.sics.se (fsmsg2.sics.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:3a:1:250:56ff:fea9:52ad]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88A601A0407; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (fsmsg2 [127.0.0.1]) by fsmsg2.sics.se (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s4F8Qira019724; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:26:44 +0200 Received: from letter.sics.se (letter.sics.se [193.10.64.6]) by fsmsg2.sics.se with ESMTP id 1kppjumhbg-1; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:26:44 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.108] (unknown [85.235.11.178]) (Authenticated sender: ludwig@sics.se) by letter.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00383400E2; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:26:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 10:26:43 +0200 From: Ludwig Seitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise , The IESG References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090401090507000202080307" X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.96, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-05-15_01:2014-05-14,2014-05-15,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/4T4DOoc2PzGF2BJ1iu3p_EP3Qg4 Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:27:01 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090401090507000202080307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/15/2014 12:12 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ace-00-01: Block > =2E.. > 2. > The Charter makes a number of assertions that are provably false, such = as > that AAA protocols are inappropriate for constrained environments. > AAA > protocols were deployed in the 1990s to support extremely limited NAS > devices and Internet hosts with tiny fractions of the power of today's > systems. Any device that can run IP can authenticate against a AAA > server. > > Let me include the AAA-doctors in the discussion > I guess the crucial point here is the ways constrained environments are=20 used today and what is expected of them (e.g. in terms of response time, = number of deployed devices, criticality of the infrastructure they=20 control). This is quite different from what was expected from NAS devices and=20 Internet hosts in the 1990s. Another important factor is that many=20 constrained devices are battery powered and thus need to operate quite=20 differently from what Internet hosts and NAS devices would do in 1990. Even AAA protocols have made some progress since 1990s (or we would=20 still be sitting in a cave carving Access Control Matrices into stone=20 tablets). So I would indeed argue that many of the AAA protocols deployed today=20 are not suitable for constrained devices without some profiling or=20 adaptation (we already have the DICE WG for example, that is working on=20 adapting DTLS to constrained environments). /Ludwig --=20 Ludwig Seitz, PhD SICS Swedish ICT AB Ideon Science Park Building Beta 2 Scheelev=E4gen 17 SE-223 70 Lund Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51 http://www.sics.se --------------ms090401090507000202080307 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMVDCC BhgwggUAoAMCAQICAwiRTjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBjDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNV BAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRl IFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlh dGUgQ2xpZW50IENBMB4XDTE0MDEwNzA3MjgzNVoXDTE1MDEwNzEyNTgyMlowODEXMBUGA1UE AwwObHVkd2lnQHNpY3Muc2UxHTAbBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDmx1ZHdpZ0BzaWNzLnNlMIIBIjAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAnLm1tc30QxHa9wtdVjC3NgxjLJicnccm0HD+ 1X16kPMKGvwps8F1oDhYn7jXIe46p1AuJMzLK0GIioE4JwxCFGdvpz7cg2xyTyrdBVUzSqez Dfqt4FOJq6hrdrIMS8MHEzl7Jk02gv9cTn/pHQvDpkiThRpbSLU5mlMqtEQ8gDQY5YyBX0Mv 5qculV08I2JU8HEeTt1oeqhvBImgQfOVYMDatHlWHUVVrmYd6iIo+cuiUGd5kiA0XuaLYX0E oCoao/z5Wg9U0sQlx0hl4r96Q+NdoZZ1prfts3qtyBzJ2hu135aikigzJ6sueWHv/jbISUek tOMm0xkx1GOqqWtEAwIDAQABo4IC1DCCAtAwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBLAwHQYD VR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRZmjjBh8N3klra+mVQgC00 pl68ZTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6WNU7y1LhRgjAZBgNVHREEEjAQgQ5sdWR3 aWdAc2ljcy5zZTCCAUwGA1UdIASCAUMwggE/MIIBOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgMwggEqMC4GCCsG AQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMIH3BggrBgEFBQcC AjCB6jAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgEBGoG+VGhpcyBj ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSB3YXMgaXNzdWVkIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQ2xhc3MgMSBWYWxpZGF0 aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgU3RhcnRDb20gQ0EgcG9saWN5LCByZWxpYW5jZSBv bmx5IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcHVycG9zZSBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSByZWx5 aW5nIHBhcnR5IG9ibGlnYXRpb25zLjA2BgNVHR8ELzAtMCugKaAnhiVodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jcnR1MS1jcmwuY3JsMIGOBggrBgEFBQcBAQSBgTB/MDkGCCsGAQUFBzAB hi1odHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc3ViL2NsYXNzMS9jbGllbnQvY2EwQgYIKwYB BQUHMAKGNmh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3N1Yi5jbGFzczEuY2xpZW50 LmNhLmNydDAjBgNVHRIEHDAahhhodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS8wDQYJKoZIhvcN AQELBQADggEBAHqEYmtWr83S+iLXE97KBnHJZiMr6PMuLKxmh0o6UJJwKgf+KTP2czxRnPSI +whuqfQZdmz6g3A2K8AooMU0RXrzncnX1c4826APdnXkRxnGQxtZXI1wuhPn4z7iDKZ6ij9u K5Pfn10JL/ERDig2qJQbqvhtIAx0RY7y7r+hLMvgXVq9mf3WRJYmGQeFW+N9t5Z1eEwG4m9R KAZm0fnfeDn/Ai4kmxTckBH7dZwW2lTtwQqQ4su+PGCJ0e9ndBLpvTqaYGSAl+L7PO7vxPhS /cS67Xa6BtnYJLTr3MaGXaN+CEUFSfwQHa9DKcAqh3kldErI3kCvnot0CigBl4aILOEwggY0 MIIEHKADAgECAgEeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMH0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMSkwJwYDVQQDEyBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0wNzEw MjQyMTAxNTVaFw0xNzEwMjQyMTAxNTVaMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3Rh cnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmlu ZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDHCYPMzi3YGrEppC4Tq5a+ ijKDjKaIQZZVR63UbxIP6uq/I0fhCu+cQhoUfE6ERKKnu8zPf1Jwuk0tsvVCk6U9b+0UjM0d Lep3ZdE1gblK/1FwYT5Pipsu2yOMluLqwvsuz9/9f1+1PKHG/FaR/wpbfuIqu54qzHDYeqiU fsYzoVflR80DAC7hmJ+SmZnNTWyUGHJbBpA8Q89lGxahNvuryGaC/o2/ceD2uYDX9U8Eg5Dp IpGQdcbQeGarV04WgAUjjXX5r/2dabmtxWMZwhZna//jdiSyrrSMTGKkDiXm6/3/4ebfeZuC YKzN2P8O2F/Xe2AC/Y7zeEsnR7FOp+uXAgMBAAGjggGtMIIBqTAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/ MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUU3Ltkpzg2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4UYIwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUTgvvGqRAW6UXaYcwyjRoQ9BBrvIwZgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEWjBYMCcGCCsGAQUFBzAB hhtodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vY2EwLQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGIWh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNydDBbBgNVHR8EVDBSMCegJaAjhiFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zZnNjYS5jcmwwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nm c2NhLmNybDCBgAYDVR0gBHkwdzB1BgsrBgEEAYG1NwECATBmMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRw Oi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMDQGCCsGAQUFBwIBFihodHRwOi8vd3d3 LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9pbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUucGRmMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQAKgwh9 eKssBly4Y4xerhy5I3dNoXHYfYa8PlVLL/qtXnkFgdtY1o95CfegFJTwqBBmf8pyTUnFsukD FUI22zF5bVHzuJ+GxhnSqN2sD1qetbYwBYK2iyYA5Pg7Er1A+hKMIzEzcduRkIMmCeUTyMyi kfbUFvIBivtvkR8ZFAk22BZy+pJfAoedO61HTz4qSfQoCRcLN5A0t4DkuVhTMXIzuQ8Cnykh ExD6x4e6ebIbrjZLb7L+ocR0y4YjCl/Pd4MXU91y0vTipgr/O75CDUHDRHCCKBVmz/Rzkc/b 970MEeHt5LC3NiWTgBSvrLEuVzBKM586YoRD9Dy3OHQgWI270g+5MYA8GfgI/EPT5G7xPbCD z+zjdH89PeR3U4So4lSXur6H6vp+m9TQXPF3a0LwZrp8MQ+Z77U1uL7TelWO5lApsbAonrqA SfTpaprFVkL4nyGH+NHST2ZJPWIBk81i6Vw0ny0qZW2Niy/QvVNKbb43A43ny076khXO7cNb BIRdJ/6qQNq9Bqb5C0Q5nEsFcj75oxQRqlKf6TcvGbjxkJh8BYtv9ePsXklAxtm8J7GCUBth HSQgepbkOexhJ0wP8imUkyiPHQ0GvEnd83129fZjoEhdGwXV27ioRKbj/cIq7JRXun0NbeY+ UdMYu9jGfIpDLtUUGSgsg2zMGs5R4jGCA90wggPZAgEBMIGUMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEW MBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlm aWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVy bWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwiRTjAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIICHTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNDA1MTUwODI2NDNaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEW BBQxRffkeNbfuwNjfEm6JhMMadYzXjBsBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjAL BglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFA MAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGlBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgZcwgZQwgYwxCzAJBgNV BAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRh bCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1h cnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDCJFOMIGnBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBl6CBlDCB jDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3Vy ZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNz IDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgMIkU4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAE ggEACOWqEtCBp4GRrW8n8E48WjHJivzIs2i1ryYjLt4aijTTYhpMi7eHKB7qhyyF9EtQB0LC qL9dhG/J8I82t2xCfJ/A/0LDQ+VlOyV+tezXGQOQhQEJGcwPOEP3GVUOOxc+0rC9xN47jK7b XWha5vSNI51PpwGpnEKafciDQKkdQTMqv4ByHB3KrpbZQwMtZxQTFJGDn4Z7BZ/M29Qr+YDx Yl2eI9Yv5SIXG2kgH9yEUwOMyaqIMOgXmm/vYXjkjJy45+ohrPn2mCO/e+pSbb0T9FIhSNPY SBW8RXK6Z9XG6OdQL7awD/9aTiNbAgGPFfqO51jfSrpVMn/kP1WzjmiDswAAAAAAAA== --------------ms090401090507000202080307-- From nobody Thu May 15 01:37:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891E41A042C; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:37:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S0LrULIu1Jr2; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007DF1A0429; Thu, 15 May 2014 01:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E802CC5D; Thu, 15 May 2014 11:37:17 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XpcKrMsxKja8; Thu, 15 May 2014 11:37:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A3332CC48; Thu, 15 May 2014 11:37:16 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 10:37:18 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> To: Barry Leiba X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/3ZeqG2HoZzaaCGDb6bRV0NY00r0 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 08:37:29 -0000 > I understand, but I think it's always been the intent for this work to > start at the App layer only, and to consider looking at other > protocols and layers later. Well, what I wanted to look at was on the applications layer (e.g., data = object security), not on other layers. > I would want us to get this work done > first in any case, and then re-charter to go further. >=20 > If you disagree with that plan, let's talk about it and see where it = brings us. I do agree with the plan, but my point was that the original charter = version was on that plan as well while still recognising the = applicability of the results to other things. My opinion is that the = previous version was better, and would probably get more of us = interested in working on the topic. Jari From nobody Thu May 15 05:09:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0111A04B1; Thu, 15 May 2014 05:09:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 96undD020aMg; Thu, 15 May 2014 05:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8D21A04A6; Thu, 15 May 2014 05:09:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: The IESG X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.4.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140515120949.27122.92726.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 05:09:49 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/n9iAGs-PUrYx2hVcj-v38kL2pS8 Cc: ace@ietf.org Subject: [Ace] Stephen Farrell's Yes on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 12:09:50 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ace-00-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think there's some good discussion ongoing and am fine with that being worked out during IETF review. From nobody Thu May 15 06:08:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5C41A0061; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t3zPT1yhHMPs; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from power.freeradius.org (power.freeradius.org [88.190.25.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD4C1A002B; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by power.freeradius.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3679F224019C; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:07:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at power.freeradius.org Received: from power.freeradius.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (power.freeradius.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wjfMUEcjd4Bz; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:07:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Thor.local (unknown [67.71.146.163]) by power.freeradius.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66DB22240153; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:07:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 09:07:23 -0400 From: Alan DeKok User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ludwig Seitz References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> In-Reply-To: <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/LmMh5_cJ_mXwLuPNGYh35QQZPRM Cc: Benoit Claise , aaa-doctors@ietf.org, The IESG , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 13:08:07 -0000 Ludwig Seitz wrote > So I would indeed argue that many of the AAA protocols deployed today > are not suitable for constrained devices without some profiling or > adaptation Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A simple server is more, but not a lot more. They can each do 1000's of packets per second on commodity hardware with a naive implementation, at low latencies. I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling. Just a clear description of the problem being solved. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu May 15 06:38:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D53D1A0076; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:38:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MFAaMuD2E9ao; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 638311A002B; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB89420036; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 0AA7F63B1C; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE02863B17; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/EKXanUEv3wHGoURBmIikITdLKZc Cc: Benoit Claise , aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Ludwig Seitz , The IESG , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 13:38:10 -0000 --=-=-= Alan DeKok wrote: >> So I would indeed argue that many of the AAA protocols deployed today >> are not suitable for constrained devices without some profiling or >> adaptation > Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A The problem that we are dealing with is not really authentication at all. I don't know how to use radius from the constrainted device at all. I don't even know how to setup the radius shared secret at all. Radius/Diameter have a place, but it is behind an authorization server. > I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling. Just a clear > description of the problem being solved. Let Device X update resource Y on Device Z. That's the problem statement. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBU3TDN4CLcPvd0N1lAQKKSAgAmxjytz8s9tE/GtnaWVPg8aivbInHFsKn b5qjm6+Q0wfBSDdC9GymnXFDcXoUW00wCNUnAPfo7su+TDsf5hNUh7iChAMeMJsL 0pe5WSWIEd9FIpB7bmEs/qjkEwKKtRT2jDb3kDNDcdh/rTJB3ss71L5MVbJJNHha 6EmkClg9BW1ehx1QvXl6T012j6PTr/6KUN6rrBNIrGSBqxj/IBTPvmNctfcLS77k +feDnsSMI+la7srTGjXh5qZcjNLkxfn12028cC/OQ4DGaBOwCJgonpozWGop2t8B MrYor8667tBu4FMxiRAwV9VlbWoolxtQXaJDRjcKw5FRcj/Qj1akbA== =H06D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu May 15 07:34:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EDD1A02AD; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mxh-qHT6zJwF; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan15.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.45.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E478F1A04E9; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mailscan5.hi.local) by mailscan-g65.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wkwin-0005qu-QH; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:33:21 +0100 Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan5.hi.local with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wkwin-0001hM-FN; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:33:21 +0100 Received: from host86-147-47-201.range86-147.btcentralplus.com ([86.147.47.201] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1Wkwig-0000zL-Ci; Thu, 15 May 2014 15:33:14 +0100 Message-ID: <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:34:30 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Richardson , Alan DeKok References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030909070004090701030509" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/UpVpKEi1qIEb5Tlzcc9UQYo8VEw Cc: Benoit Claise , aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Ludwig Seitz , The IESG , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 14:33:54 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030909070004090701030509 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060007010603030705010401" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060007010603030705010401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriate=20 for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized=20 for constrained environments, which is the case. Michael's problem statement below is spot on. All the charter should say = is words to the effect of: "Let's look at that being done using CoAP=20 (HTTP) and DTLS (TLS) first. Then let's take what we came up with and=20 see if it would be useful elsewhere". However I don't support saying=20 "Other application protocols with their related transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack,=20 are out of scope"; they are not the original focus but it is important=20 to consider how we could reuse identified and developed protocols for=20 e.g. network access and indeed AAA to improve efficiency in constrained=20 devices. Robert On 15/05/2014 2:37 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Alan DeKok wrote: > >> So I would indeed argue that many of the AAA protocols deployed= today > >> are not suitable for constrained devices without some profiling= or > >> adaptation > > > Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. > > > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A= > > The problem that we are dealing with is not really authentication at al= l. > I don't know how to use radius from the constrainted device at all. > I don't even know how to setup the radius shared secret at all. > > Radius/Diameter have a place, but it is behind an authorization server.= > > > I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling. Just a cle= ar > > description of the problem being solved. > > Let Device X update resource Y on Device Z. > That's the problem statement. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace --------------060007010603030705010401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriate for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized for constrained environments, which is the case.
Michael's problem statement below is spot on. All the charter should say is words to the effect of: "Let's look at that being done using CoAP (HTTP) and DTLS (TLS) first. Then let's take what we came up with and see if it would be useful elsewhere". However I don't support saying "Other application protocols with their related
transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope"; they are not the original focus but it is important to consider how we could reuse identified and developed protocols for e.g. network access and indeed AAA to improve efficiency in constrained devices.

Robert

On 15/05/2014 2:37 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
= 
Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
    >> So I would indeed argue that many of the AAA protocols deplo=
yed today
    >> are not suitable for constrained devices without some profil=
ing or
    >> adaptation

    > Adaptation to *what*?  That's the part I'm missing.

    > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC.  A=


The problem that we are dealing with is not really authentication at all.=

I don't know how to use radius from the constrainted device at all.
I don't even know how to setup the radius shared secret at all.

Radius/Diameter have a place, but it is behind an authorization server.

    > I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling.  Just a cle=
ar
    > description of the problem being solved.

Let Device X update resource Y on Device Z.
That's the problem statement.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software =
Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-






_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ie=
tf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--------------060007010603030705010401-- --------------ms030909070004090701030509 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UE ChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGlj YXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC ggEBAJKEhFtLV5jUXi+LpOFAyKNTWF9mZfEyTvefMn1V0HhMVbdClOD5J3EHxcZppLkyxPFA GpDMJ1Zifxe1cWmu5SAb5MtjXmDKokH2auGj/7jfH0htZUOMKi4rYzh337EXrMLaggLW1DJq 1GdvIBOPXDX65VSAr9hxCh03CgJQU2yVHakQFLSZlVkSMf8JotJM3FLb3uJAAVtIaN3FSrTg 7SQfOq9xXwfjrL8UO7AlcWg99A/WF1hGFYE8aIuLgw9teiFX5jSw2zJ+40rhpVJyZCaRTqWS D//gsWD9Gm9oUZljjRqLpcxCm5t9ImPTqaD8zp6Q30QZ9FxbNboW86eb/8ECAwEAAaOCAUsw ggFHMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59MB0GA1UdDgQWBBR6E04AdFvG eGNkJ8Ev4qBbvHnFezAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNV HSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwWAYDVR0fBFEwTzBNoEugSYZHaHR0cDovL2NybC51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tL1VUTi1VU0VSRmlyc3QtQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRFbWFpbC5jcmwwdAYI KwYBBQUHAQEEaDBmMD0GCCsGAQUFBzAChjFodHRwOi8vY3J0LnVzZXJ0cnVzdC5jb20vVVRO QWRkVHJ1c3RDbGllbnRfQ0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1 c3QuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCF1r54V1VtM39EUv5C1QaoAQOAivsNsv1Kv/av QUn1G1rF0q0bc24+6SZ85kyYwTAo38v7QjyhJT4KddbQPTmGZtGhm7VNm2+vKGwdr+XqdFqo 2rHA8XV6L566k3nK/uKRHlZ0sviN0+BDchvtj/1gOSBH+4uvOmVIPJg9pSW/ve9g4EnlFsjr P0OD8ODuDcHTzTNfm9C9YGqzO/761Mk6PB/tm/+bSTO+Qik5g+4zaS6CnUVNqGnagBsePdIa XXxHmaWbCG0SmYbWXVcHG6cwvktJRLiQfsrReTjrtDP6oDpdJlieYVUYtCHVmdXgQ0BCML7q peeU0rD+83X5f27nMIIGLjCCBRagAwIBAgIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQUFADCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4G A1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENP TU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xMTA5 MDIwMDAwMDBaFw0xNDA5MDEyMzU5NTlaMIIBNzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxEDAOBgNVBBETB1dG NCA0V0ExFzAVBgNVBAgTDldlc3QgWW9ya3NoaXJlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlXYWtlZmllbGQxFDAS BgNVBAkTC0dyYW5nZSBNb29yMR8wHQYDVQQJExY4OSBHcmVlbmZpZWxkIENyZXNjZW50MRcw FQYDVQQKEw5HcmlkbWVyZ2UgTHRkLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrSXNzdWVkIHRocm91Z2ggR3JpZG1l cmdlIEx0ZC4gRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFp bDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUm9iZXJ0IENyYWdpZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbcm9iZXJ0LmNyYWdp ZUBncmlkbWVyZ2UuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEArcThqvLe WU1Q1ZJmnb+2UQSwOQKWok3A1Mwk582AdvwaAQyBFliPyJ0kXJqtwNBoZvk+3WJr0QA5ZRr+ J0x3sXVpcxadojP2HNzy1gsgDtIGG8ltoU4vmX1A8BTlOIUT+Pg8p/bSruxV0vz0CR8ho2hs R0Zi5vU+rQKNmbgufbkWhlQnMEYjknemscLQfw1YZz90ta67doNDujFy6+X6I06HpjudgMYx 8bdsNS5xVFFwuBA1eqNQra+xLzhCOeX9PPB/zK68qdNhrni3WPYG9EhSt4Dzk+xIz9hj7wrU ZIVXDTPsY8qbUSBVpwmzI5lCHPgzurH1OK7WwgpDSsl5pwIDAQABo4IB1TCCAdEwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUehNOAHRbxnhjZCfBL+KgW7x5xXswHQYDVR0OBBYEFBCOXNH+lDm8U9gy3b3bRvrx vKgrMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwME BggrBgEFBQcDAjBGBgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1o dHRwczovL3NlY3VyZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBXBgNVHR8EUDBOMEygSqBIhkZodHRwOi8v Y3JsLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbS9DT01PRE9DbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVt YWlsQ0EuY3JsMIGIBggrBgEFBQcBAQR8MHowUgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29t b2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5j cnQwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAmBgNVHREEHzAdgRty b2JlcnQuY3JhZ2llQGdyaWRtZXJnZS5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAD6b/O0LkPav kR4Znoqxg0Ad7M3duDm4uzfrlX4ecgq56Ccdwd+3Tayz7Ewej30woVMmTKkA/NKRaCd0wVM9 8seF/oZjXKO7o1SH27igRnGSWjCoWXsdwJGfZbYnvcIIhhsxJoCPNbeSR7C0PAFDKsP3xrJy MHMljIJsoRbZu/fnYNyFWh9OXf7fYJOGmKDKAhSabUGfhY7umvU9d/YTqo02Q6YzC7d4zPNG 1a75AuHSEchf6GdKqycG38I5y9jlDaYfXspoS3PlTNCIeZONbOSMZgftnNEVKq+SWytFqyG/ 8+dwpm/a12KMex5J8iHwaUKj++2O2rAFNjDDqXpeEYoxggQZMIIEFQIBATCBqDCBkzELMAkG A1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9y ZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQg QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIICRTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xNDA1MTUxNDM0MzBaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBS0liTgr7AxWAH2WWYSVba5OkWs6jBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG5BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgaswgagwgZMxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMTkwNwYDVQQDEzBDT01PRE8gQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUg RW1haWwgQ0ECEFwxUNvELajLmHIeX9p072YwgbsGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGroIGoMIGTMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVu dCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhBcMVDbxC2oy5hyHl/adO9m MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAAbk250Xfwi5oVxaNGQIwiEY5G00CiFhab72KqeAtCVbSpTQ It4R4Z1sTVsHlKUr99lrafhAQmwkcz2cSkDJKpwxW5n7ve9ZjCQuH3Axrp/l2s4VKGXsSxqr sK1M8PFAY8A4ulKUpU3E/7nYtLO7N2+HX/BP/E93HOcvWbmbeheY62+FjMIMkGZHzc9BF23+ V4oO8NtEyhFYrSglBGq2YeNjJ76aK8JjSF99kzCCPb+CzXjMlgt8cZDvMGDI2ZOYauT1pZ+m wR6cgRDhfbl8HLMypzNIbxIZBaX9NRo18/XkVKHfaASITFbpPQC5IaAqoPnP7AkVlmmZvafT 1HlusXMAAAAAAAA= --------------ms030909070004090701030509-- From nobody Thu May 15 07:37:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F741A0071; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:36:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lesbtdnj9HvG; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from power.freeradius.org (power.freeradius.org [88.190.25.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654AC1A04E9; Thu, 15 May 2014 07:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by power.freeradius.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0A2224019C; Thu, 15 May 2014 16:36:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at power.freeradius.org Received: from power.freeradius.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (power.freeradius.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CWH-6iDx2Z8V; Thu, 15 May 2014 16:36:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Thor.local (unknown [67.71.146.163]) by power.freeradius.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2884722400B2; Thu, 15 May 2014 16:36:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 10:36:43 -0400 From: Alan DeKok User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/zwyzeqPG8Vz3sZ3Bsu0p-wpQYDA Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , The IESG , ace@ietf.org, Benoit Claise , Ludwig Seitz Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 14:36:57 -0000 Robert Cragie wrote: > First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriate > for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized > for constrained environments, which is the case. That all depends what you mean by "constrained". If you read it as "small low-power, low-memory systems", then it's not true. AAA protocols work there just fine. If by "constrained", you mean "a mesh of small devices all of whom which to update resources on each other", then it is true. But it's a very off definition of "constrained". I would suggest avoiding the word "constrained", and replacing it with something a bit more descriptive. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu May 15 08:03:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54A21A0099; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VCzXNSKO2cwD; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch (bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch [130.60.155.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D414A1A00C6; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from authenticated sender schmitt by bohuslav.ifi.uzh.ch (postfix) with ESMTPSA id SA; <310ED7FC83> Message-ID: <5374D711.9060107@ifi.uzh.ch> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:02:41 +0200 From: Corinna Schmitt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan DeKok , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080706080402090909000505" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.8 at bohuslav X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/_zrryA0aqNT8GWwrK4-OL2ZTRlE Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , The IESG , ace@ietf.org, Benoit Claise , Ludwig Seitz Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:02:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080706080402090909000505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From UZH I can say AAA works fine with very small device. We described it in our draft. Currently we just specify the minimum RAM and ROM requirements that must be fulfilled, but in general it works fine. Regards, Corinna Am 15.05.14 16:36, schrieb Alan DeKok: > Robert Cragie wrote: >> First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriate >> for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized >> for constrained environments, which is the case. > That all depends what you mean by "constrained". If you read it as > "small low-power, low-memory systems", then it's not true. AAA > protocols work there just fine. > > If by "constrained", you mean "a mesh of small devices all of whom > which to update resources on each other", then it is true. But it's a > very off definition of "constrained". > > I would suggest avoiding the word "constrained", and replacing it with > something a bit more descriptive. > > Alan DeKok. > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > -- --------------080706080402090909000505 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------050609010701010907050601" --------------050609010701010907050601 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From UZH I can say AAA works fine with very small device.
We described it in our draft. Currently we just specify the minimum RAM and ROM requirements that must be fulfilled, but in general it works fine.

Regards,
Corinna

Am 15.05.14 16:36, schrieb Alan DeKok:
Robert Cragie wrote:

 First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriate
for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized
for constrained environments, which is the case.

  That all depends what you mean by "constrained".  If you read it as
"small low-power, low-memory systems", then it's not true.  AAA
protocols work there just fine.

  If by "constrained", you mean "a mesh of small devices all of whom
which to update resources on each other", then it is true.  But it's a
very off definition of "constrained".

  I would suggest avoiding the word "constrained", and replacing it with
something a bit more descriptive.

  Alan DeKok.

_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace


--
--------------050609010701010907050601 Content-Type: image/png; x-mac-type="0"; x-mac-creator="0"; name="visitenkarte.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="visitenkarte.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAASgAAACgCAIAAAAw8WZPAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1B AACxjwv8YQUAAAAgY0hSTQAAeiYAAICEAAD6AAAAgOgAAHUwAADqYAAAOpgAABdwnLpRPAAA buNJREFUeF7t3Qe8FtXRP3CT901i2htTTVeTGE035Z+YZkxijFFjQcVKVXrvvffee6/Se+9I R0CahSqCgtJBQKTl/9099y4P9yIiEOXq83zwus8+Z8+ePTtzZs7Mb2Y+9p///OeKd/uMGTNm 5cqVWq1atWr//v3v1jz9e3oGPnIzcOWVV/7ud7/z2DfeeON9993n67tMAcZ7p8/s2bMfeeSR q666Skd14s/o0aOdTH/SM5CegSwzMHny5MAjWAbXYRnMcg7muuKsvz333HOuvPXWW59++ul9 +/ad4/r0T+kZSM9A9hnAdTjopptuwp9nnZ+zMB5mu/nmm8/Nr+m5Ts9AegbedQYIMNKLGMze MivjVa1alax866233rXTdIP0DKRn4HxmIOifWXjqDMbDdRqdOnXqZPqTnoH0DFyKGcBNmLNP nz40z1QuPc14NEx86bc0412KCU/3kZ6BaAYC4/k0adKEYEt4L4PxKKP2dUEaphkvTTLpGbhU M5AwHs4i2Ii3wHsZjJdq/bxgxsvk7XPovWkl9lK90HQ/OWMGUhlvx44d1157bRBvEeNxQdxx xx0Ju7wnxjtx4sTJEyeSa/fs2b1mzZrp06YPHzp02JAh/jmYOmUyifrGG28kzU6eyBmzlh5l egYucgZSGQ/9ly1btk2bNhmMh+vw3oUxXrhq586dkyZNatyoYY1q1apXq1anVq0G9eo1rFu3 ob/16tWrU6d61arVq1WvX6/+6FGjt219NVx1kY+Uvjw9A5f/DGRhvJdffpnQixiP4INNSbV1 no/EI+hsBl2/ffuOnj17li9XrmrlKhivaZMmXTt3fnrwoKlTpsyeNXvO7NnTp00bNnRoj27d WjRv3rhhw+pVq5cuWbpTx46bN28K7KerSGymP+kZ+DDOQBbGQ/CMKYsWLboiMWa+J4kXGGb0 qFHlypatVrVqy+YtunbpsnDBgtkzZo4bOzb7Jm/evGecX75sWa+ePTWuXatW2dKl+/fre/jw YY2PH08z3oeR6NLPlGLVTJgiIMuuCP9LZZVzSzwsovGunTsbN2pUsUKF5k2bDujf74Xnn8c8 zg8cMLBCuXKv79hhzhM5dvTo2y2bN2/YoMHxY8e12bhhw/BhQ1s0bVa1cuWaNWps2rgxrXam SfTDOgPZJV5Ak12RP39+3r3zZzwtX968mW5Zr27dNq3bLFiwYPOmTXv37Hb+hRdeaFCvfptW rVu1aJnwkoO5s+c4o/3gQQN9XfbssmeXLiX9Onbo0KhRw9IlSzr+b8i9YPi55IbU49aY4yfi 5enSKclRT8czPD5pj86HiAuzMx49k7Z5RRbLCgY4h8Tz6ytbtpQpXTrs5ba8vMWZwQMHkn57 du/R47/vvPPfd92FLZ0/cuTI4UOHHIwaOfLef//7zjvuaNWyha99+vRt3qz59te2b33llT69 e7do1qxYkaKB984x4cnSENqkPs/5X3VJXijGyzKYLF8v6C6RvvD228defOGFtWvWHHrzzfPZ aV/QjdIXva8zkJ3xgn3lCiDOLADqs77y2JryH5EKNnXNmzXr3Knj/v37aJj169WbMX0GY+bK 5cunTJ78VMGCRQsXLl60qM3bcyuemzljhqt6dutWMH/+J/PntxvkynDJvr372rZp88zcuW+8 /kbMe81Lliix5eWXw9Yxu63l2LHjSxYvNs6DBw8ans+xt48tXrSI8ebNN98860Rqc/To0WZN m+Z54vF169ZdQjrW1fLlyx95ODeJ/fbbb7u7UZHhe/fuveC7RPrC88/f8+9/f+H//u/zn//c nDlz0ur3+8of/7WbXSzjRULm5Ek806RxEzZJTNK5c+eXXnypdMlSFM6li5doMGHcuP59+w3q 379mjeq7du3EVBs2rHfjwQMGdOvSuX/v3jWrVX/z4MG9+/Y9u2RJm9athw8btmDe/Igze/Zs 3bKVHeORw4dTN4cZwu3kyTffPPSrm276whe+sHbN2iBe9u8/8LOf/vSLX/wipgpSOhB9+DU8 LSfHN77+dfGIvXr0SG2TCMxwSTI1CdtEfcVdht6yCFhnmjZpqtsfXn/9gQMHjr711r3/vucr X/7y2rXR2MJVZ3QV95X6ZrPcMQy+YIEC+rzt73+rVq3qhg0bLoyHQ1cXdu1/jfbesePsmsI7 jTx5rZdwkBc8S8mFyajO0VXyrpOHfW8Sz2Vjx4whslq3arV169Y1q1a3atmyc8eOc2bNInwi Ujt5EkNWrVK1ZvXq+fPmxZlUphnTp1PMGjdswOJSrXLlgvny7969J2KJN97ApdOnTp01c2bb 1m22b9/eoV077r4e3bpHhH6md+HUyVOHDh36xc9//vnPfU6fmYy3/yc//jH58NJLEeNl/3jg 48feHjt6NA5n7EkaBHF61kvCSfvC1F+1T7ZeCR/a5TZv3oKEj9ofP/HTn/7ks5/97OZYYqcS U1ATMroNojzlTJYx/PmPf/z85z+/efPm6PwF4dSzdHjBhBUT9wljiN7FRXzi53jHLXagyH37 9x858lbGHTMfIPWeYcYgLvbu3Xfs2LGLGE7GpfFDnX6lnvQ99RnGGAZ//Ngxo0rOvJPmleW9 nC/jRZR36hQzZrkyZVq1aLFkyeIN69e3b9vu9dffGDVixBtv7Iyf5MT+ffuKFylSqkSJ8mXL 3H7bbfx4M6ZNw0779u3Ndd99LCj8B84vmB+JuPBZtHDRYw8/XKRQ4SOHDlO0WjVv7vL16zdk ed/uTnH91S9vuuqqLwSp4rP/wIGf/exnX/rSlzZu2Lh39+4qVau0bNmCCM11/3333ntP/379 XMU52aN791q1a7GjEstFixV1d+dPHD9OSyxUqBDLELZp367dnf/61x3//CdPo02pBtOmTS1W tOjAAf1LlSzlV2cGDhjwQK5ct/7lFiYi82u0NarXGPL009aXEiVKkKsUxNy5czdu0mTcuHGF Cxfu0rmLnr2fiRMnPvXUU8xXpihsDnfseB2Q4K4777rvnnt5Vg4dPvzKK6+UKF7i29/+1he+ 8H+PPfaYTa+Rv1e20X79uvXlypUrUqRI2TJlFi9afDFsE+xSR986+p6IMkvjt98+ijTfiRxx Ea/Sr3716+B/Mn6zWqVKlddefTXLuvP6668/kvvhv9zyl02bIt/vxQzJteSEV/PSSy8VLVLE HSN6OG/W03j1qlVVqlTdtXMX/rnrzjvZJ+2ngEN2vrHzrK/swiVeWHL43+rWrt2zRw/W/0kT Jgzo15/EM61+Oha74Xbv2tm+bZsmjRsVL1KU0Js0aSK6rFK58p7du/kMKlUoX71K5SqVKs5N 2b34SbfPPbdy8qRJWzZvfnrQ4LatW9uVvSfG44hH/V/60hc/9alPfe5zn/vaV79KYSMJly5Z ao/32//3/3y1GwQMd/DUk0/pnF3nq1/56qc++ckVK1bQb50nTn/60586sINFA40bN3aMl/wl 5Ht07/Hxj30Md/36l78qXqyYHkYMH+Gnf99993MrVlxzzTWf/cxn3Vr7W//ylzGjR/vp61// OsuTSb/9H7f72r170HVPbtu69ZY//9mZL171RQNwULRoUUP97ne+S2aSeKT67f/4x6HDkVHq PVGY9rNmzvrSF7/YpHHjMqVKXfPda6ZNm5Zlrc0i6rN8zUIiDerXDyr6WT/n1hpcsn79+rxP PHFg//7kQbL0w/b2veuus0JFciymMWTg8VetXJml5cL5C0y+peTc488+zuxEbzdeIF++l154 ccf2HTVq1CRCAg4k++esklCzMaNGf/5zn31126vWi+98+9tbt24bOWK4YdsdnPWVXTjjedp9 e/dWrVyJL47DAJXXrlmT6HtlyytBbQsikfb49KBBxYoUQXwMJ+PHje3SqXPRwkU2b9zUskWL B+6/P+/jjzdt1IhBJfVNWOybN23WsWOHl1560Z6Q2aZyxYpbtkTG0sTEgmAPHz70q1/+8qpo j5epah7YHyQe3WzrK1u9wv/5n//B2mYk1/33h30dLedvf/3rlZ/6FPfFiuXLceP1P/gByCjx 9bGPfezRRx5hSkXuv/rVr55fu3b5s8u+/73vfeMb39i9a1e7tm01+OY3vwlzQw0mD3XYrGmz iHliNZXW/Yn//d+HHngAb6Own//sZ/afkDomgXB2U+179+q9Yd26r3z5K9ddey0pF15tgwYN /PTYo4/ywcycMfNb3/qmUS1auNBk/u63/w83mh/KxQVAeXTuWur3ju2vOc6fL999993rYNu2 baR0o0aNyA2moA4dOljsKlWsNH78eL+aPQxWoWLFCRMmWEb7+/Tt1759+759+qD13/z611On Th0zekzXLl3r16/ft29feweT7EldK+1VyxYtrarI9403XgdB7Na1K5EFR/HG66+b3s9+5jPl ypazGw+i4PChw927dStXrvzokSMJ/0YNG331K1955OFHwoZWhzOmT0PKq1etHjpsWLeu3WrX qt2nV6+XN7/M4/W1r32NimFuF8xfULlSJauz9/j2sbcZGgy1d+/e8+fPN+zWrVozmLOu165d u3//fnQMQrJevegBJ0+afOjNQ7ZCn/70p5944gnaVvfu3V/dts19bRkqVKjYuWMncqxbNMJy NlCJjhxeXLJDmThhwnXXXkOhe+CBB1CLm9Kzvvud79h9XGLGi5aiyZOrVanct3dvE2pZmj9v Xs/uPRgVkiXZxBFfdWvXKl2iBN4rWCA/bHTtGjWeeOzxhfPnFy1cqFTxElTNxx99ZN68eanj 8wLwkvfXrk1b74+QbNywkYmM22RoAIHxfnnTTV+86iq6QZiIAwcO/uynP2Nc2bRxE7fEtddc 861vfSvMY4Xy5RE3kJq3/feY8RZRKU+cuOOfd2AnXPf44499/OMfR08jRowgJ6+++ms/+P73 se6nr7ySyFm/bl37du31QNsM96pZvYavhEm+vHkxcMJ4D+bK5cEt2L/+1a8w3sYYCeDTqVMn 7b1dmqQDil+w1Wh5+23/+N///d+pk6eElsyYH7viiqcHD3Z8y5//5BZWorO+v3eVfq7CeD/+ 0Y3r173k2GMa1fbXXnvwgQdKly6NDRhvmIK+fvXX/3LLn8uXL2/GVj73HDpmMKtUsSLSIf// 9te/0R2KFyuKmH584423/f3v3pdrv//97wPhMiA98fjjjzz88E0///mePXtoB48/9pjO/3n7 7XT4z332s3nz5OFM+v3NN1tWSpUs8fWvX61zQsbg0bHjm37xi2rVql1//fVDhwxF93g7f778 mD+T8aYbxuqVq+jhN97ww6pVqnztq18Z0H+A4V199dWYbf78BT/+0Y95s/7+178ZCRv7d77z bbxqOaMrff6zn9X5jTfeYCbDJYTkvGeeiVaW+Hk5kO1Hrv7a14x85IgRX/7SlxYvXITrvPpy 5cv36dW7Vo2aP/3xT9q2aQvnGI04/jAH7tu7J1CjiaXu6Wr2rJkF8hf49je/2aNHjxGB8V6+ 1IxnUlq2bNmsSZNpU6fOnjWrQL78hZ58avOm6DanF+Z4E2jBo4K21rhp0+FDhloL8z6RZ+6c udAtlhOYsjq1a82de4ahXCe4ZdCAAVga3VAz3Kh+3bpvHz29u4j2eIcOeWfUuUQPsdx+77rv mcRXXtmC8a757ncxD1+iDpECcqcVZzDelVdivIgfOnZ03j7zuuuuu/GHN9iU2gqSk7RBK6tF vXevXkOGDLEussdoSVC4yt2ZdpiUCEYnTTrl3rJH4sWM58W8GUnjq64KyoYP6f31q6/+7ne/ S9H9zGc+E7TrsOdElJ/8xCdmTJseWt59190f//jHRg4fbtfxpz/+0TpCfl4s470UMR440c2/ +x3z1be+8Y3q1asRgN/51rc2rN/wk5/8JISE/b9f/waxejSbAjveb3/725jtnnvuKVuGsh19 /n3nXcC3DpB4sVjBxsl2sLSeG274oZf1oxtvLFKoEBFHsg0aOJA2sW7dehTyg+99nwCc/8w8 rLt7d4SsoBQdPHDA5W7kq/UrX958NpA//clPpkyaFJ7XX+IUBa9ZvcpiUalSJWd+8Yufe4/0 +R//6Edert3NH3//B+fnzpn9/eu+x8LHrNWhfdRnty5db/7dzQ6KFStaqlQpBz/76U+s4wcP HJw0cSK59K1vftMBU/uNN9yw6rmVa9aspoksXby4QH6mwLzhkd3rB9ddZ80KLOeVEQx5Hn+c HiHsJrTBeFh9x47t48aOY2nXDDE4c4kZz51wfO1aNQkBhIXErZED+/c/cvjIGVvJmPEG9OvH X3fLH/8oIqFVq1b0GS9m5PARsNF33XFH7vvvb1Cv7jPPnFY1g5pK139m9pxXX3112bPP2gKx x9SqWdNXUiJZ5smKe/59D7q3CmK5I2+9xQNBdPzpD384fPgI1RTjURR37dplwKVLl4kYr3v3 LIxHInmvn/zkJzEbQ5GWtsX/8z8f/8Pv/0DHCNO6d89ef1u1aqkHARaBJmgsDvCbd+a8NXLK pMmB8fhYvFpbxM9+9jMzZ8586+hRQ/VQeZ54gnS1M7zlT382gYm1wDvWAxsS4TNr1syvfvWr FNpNmzYee/voJWG8SNWMTbhUuHz58nF+WpuEokTaY9++r732Ggq2uGjw29/8Bh0XLlS40FOF xo8bT6ZhvHvvucci69djb79929/+1qhBzHiPPVayZElbod/+9rd0H4IRw8yZNfuGH/7Q47Rr 165bt+5Urx9eHzEeje5HN9zw+o7tkyZOuuGH16OKTMY7aHnq1DFikvzYLm9eKr3BkDxZGG/t mtUYj2LpjtScXj17zJ8/z8xDbjA7sf1qz8/pdbNzSOM1NrbNWDdN4FtH3ipSuIi1wBnXDh40 GF8xoowbN55YmzB+PDObBZqoF7x23XXXLlm0mJvXJ7x9HwqdJZ5QDZYwBGrPXLBgweBAThiP Yd80/uJnP7eg6Pa/wnicdZUqVOzfty/RRJR5+LlxxrIzlJ9Tp6KtUes2jz/yCFNPoSefZLKz DbUXomHmfeLx+++55+EHHyhVongWVRNOSle8eeXLlitbqvTLmzaNGDacO962J7lFsO7QDEkP VGtl/fGPf+yAAAxKmhWBpkcR4rjz9amnCvm1U4cOGA95OZ4XbywjGnr8CV/pmfNj/yEevuvO aP/2zW9886+33oqSbM8MqWmTyLjCrBKuMvV/+P3v//ynPzn585/93F2gwx3f8c/bI9Pf0bf/ cdttvtqxMI1SuV1Cif30p690I8SdPIiDCRMm2ohrHGm2n/50tHVsEhmT7F5wL15lbcs6t++q ZcYNXEXaXPWF/6tRowat8qc/+TGf/ltHjtx9513snLiOZ4V8u+GGG/51xx3aWIOsoZ733nvv bdSwodEOHjTI17qxnCeBWYft8ZYsWfLQgw8SmJw6P/zh9XCGzlAR1730Em7MlStXv379vYXF ixfT3J5f+/zY0WO+8bWrX3t1m/0IzblunXp8sJH0OHnKevrLm36h/x98/3vDhgy1xuknvMEw /kzjynN01zKly7iEUIpcVnNm2w6w6onq5DtlD/vHP/7x8MMP79u3n6pJrLmWfmg5sI1kFi5e vDgWcS0VhsXBIBs2aGjHMWrkKHa1a7/73WJFi8nR/OUvfXHJokVI9Jvf+EaFCuXJTLLOpvHv f/ubBciON4iWQAPJMaqmVFvr+/Xrd813vst6BJjlzMZNZ4ccX6BxxS3ZAJh9Md7G9etNk72s dTSb5fTU3j17atWoQdvs368/QUdjHD923LgxY7t37fbEo4/16tnLDpjUpnNnIayYc9bPmTnr 1a1bEcrkiROrValii5jaLIwe7z36yKM0qN/f/DtK7MQJE6MZOXmS6YLW7n1gJC3tCiypqJCk kujCcsXOHhlFTv0H0gUNiRikT4Y+Ga8xmLn+/e9+h23sNo8fP0am5c2Td9SokWHSeRSQoAW1 RPHiwYPPKmMppQVYF/XDfkhJ++Mf/mBxpXlqsPWVLV48gYYWkwcJkpPZ84FcD+jt3nvu7dun L/Jykt7VsH59BEFeZZvb8+O8k6dsd2vWqFmmTBnvi0IY6AWJoHVCb8yoUXjg5z//ueelyJFv brRi+YqKFSsxhjVv3gwcp1evXjNmzAz384y2RowrWo6MzSFt2rTlzrELbdq0KdXLbNNrSpcq jb6Z3CxPFDANoAvsAL3KLp0716hZ004s2SzR9umBQ4cMiZTPgwebNWuGl8Lz+mvRsR/zRiwT 4ydMwPyWLZYSYkqfNiMeiOOX8QPgnvT2pnhTV65cpQOLSPv2Hdgdhg0bzt5o9SS6Vz5na7Ky YsWK7dq2a9q0mS+nTp4YNmxo5cqV586d26RJ02ARwUulSpVs2aI5FjJ7xhC2nYnCmbxBJ9nh 2Jm4o5cvX4ZaQD4YKfiHdu7cddYXd+GMN2rkCM9pO2TG+/XpQzcI+JIsH9qzrVqgVK+qZ4/u S5csYSgfO2Yswg3nWVCQfhbGMzKq4+yZszp16EiVJbgtwEwj2ZuFTuyUCJlwHCGLjx9PlqXw Nfzk48WEg6AuZsdYnnFh7BqJrzrt9c6Yej6tlMspk4Fb4saZ3Ub++miNDOexPVMNs0TcQ4aV KBpqpgNdJ8k4Q4vw9UK57mTq06VOTnIXB5Re3kJrfGaD03OV2syDhDiSM06mTGY0pbGqknxQ aXwy4yniB8qYRi/Fw3oXqSSYiiXIJKSM9kmz5InCGV1mecbk/SYHJzIHGRxd2T/ZZyk1f0Jq e2/8bAve6YfKmMNMensnxPyFM97oUSObNGw4aOCANatXYyFCL9ipsjLe668PHjjA4rRg3ryh Q4dWLF/e1q5e3ToWcraKFcuWPb92DRGRnfEisjtxgnmDJ501zBJr09+hfcSrZ9wiepWR3yKF QDOwIGG9DCQb+zair5nH0fnIG5wZphS3cybTaXoiK946/JTKAKk3DbfMaKCnTIdK8s7sdkDG f/Ob3/zPxz8ePGkp98q4NpXlkmdMHuFs7/t8zp3hBs4YZ+QGP33ezpxxclkmHj1pk9F7ZsvM Z8zwFWUAieKOwin/S+YhzHP0Y+bf1DPJcWr7cDJz6s71aPFbzHiEjDd4+sKMyYxXtvCM8WsO RynPknqD0/fNPJs8Vvxc5+tKT52qcNMwK9kf5mIYb0STBg1sABg/+vbuQ1PasX171oX51Enb 6B7du61du2bJ4iV0D1av4sWK534oN92M089+w1aYNynVgR5GqSsrIhvM1MmT165ebXfets3Z GO98aO+cbc4hTM4qbcKUZZ+45GTWu8XtOSHs3Ig7bqjwdBc98EvWQdhRx+p5+vM+zcDFMN4o sqtf374vb9o8fOgwaiToY3Z6YlRo3KD++LFjJk2YaBNFarEWCH+gNDLiUbvpkFx8z8zNsseL hJgOqZqCD2wbJowf53bAIqkSL2gyWT6xKHv3JSqs08m1Z7kkFqRZnyhDrGUsDUGlJCoTXora x4tw6gt0jl4wfuzYZUuXXjzW8ZKTRliUz2fSLvmtP7IdXjjjzZo1i0fO7o6Jn1zCVCReNhTv qZ2vvzH06aeZJWV5GD9u3HPPrWCoFezHz8bzvmTxInFmAVR9pg4ZEf3uXbsF+DVt3Hj5smep alUqVZaeLGmGUN566whQKLACRJx/0f9ff8NW0xJ+Pm/Utg0yo0XzFnrI3p6tr3jRYpCWYJ8Z N7UTO3Vq5vTpDRvU50WwdWbCejh3boYZXgoGJCsFW47gpuyyI3V1OJ+xpdt8uGfgwhnvpRdf tGGjZLKckntVK1WGLcimap7avXNnm9atGJHZLZk07QnFH4wYPnzqlEnMaM/MmQPCUrlChSyq Jqai+SyYP09L1iHBdazD3AlgRwnjOXj22We5azm+v/+979/wwxt++hPW8p+wPmfdB57tHWoD z816TgPs0L79GZfEu8ED+w/w7TA3c9QGPSwe1X969+x19113Pf/883//298pzLkffIiVuU2r Vjf/9ndQS4zXwXvx4aab9NNd5AxcIOPZtRAIsGAd2rWN4NETJ/bt1WvksGEg3ll4jx8PQgUQ wVatXp3anTq0nzVj+qwZM8SniwmaOmnStMmTy5YqlYrVjLekkcmLnXfixEmECfNuuzZtuCX4 W1IZD1CLP5S/FSry+ut/wOuNi8ZPiNCG4RPUp3DM4JYchzMEJgt7rvtzrVq5KiiHqXKJD5SR nRvQEpN6vl+fvgBQrOr/uO0f856ZB3ixcOHC3j17Yjnu6V/8/BfBX3+RLyZ9+Yd7Bi6Q8QKN Mkvy0tDWGC25E3r16EmyZaE5+h/n2/wFCwYNGkQWsX/CxYEOtG/Tlpth3JgxrNhdO3cJ+Npk rh2/+MKLTRs3nT59OifysqXPRpCxevXejhDrGa0i5nz7bcIQcAyUjDMN1/3zn/90hhWUX5GM 1fTwkUP82pHR9QDZvA+wYMaM6Ry7RiKGCMNjpNdf3xFQzgsWzHeeXxV4JUBPOHO576iRTViA ZkcgL+VvwRpvu+22alWr0YS5vAsXKgTnTYCDlYJZ7ty1K0H0fbipJ/10FzwDF8V406dOg9Vi q+QlB03gN0wiwRMRQeJhMHEMUPDQJ3yRi+3rnn8eAA9Kk1bmQxcNEi/1s2fvXszTulVLTmeQ P7Z4PsNEiMVSMXrqcAlNVYwCkMRS1ov//IfqG8D+jnfv3oU3YAi2bttmt/blL38ZWpIL+9NX fgrAh5aoZfC589sKSvDVBzrp0KHDv/zlLwU6XHvtNeGk2KJFcTwbvzAMDe824QZ8LNo92l/u 3MlRy88bocMu+IWkL/xozMCFM575sQsSWQdrv3DBQqSPjnUnxiR8jsrRc+zY9ldf4zSHwo/5 oQ/XeWAVYTUCTMMxYRLhvk+eDFfF/44GnyZLyboXX6SsVixfAWIzizh1iX7hG/9yyy0YI8lH OGDAAF/hVLS3KED04UlGIJLQpg4CS0YZ64ULBSx+/H8+PmvGTKoj5gTvgquIIi3mz+eWxHga 61zyeVApfYK8ZFkgsn+9rFwFHw0yznlPeeGMFywNZAvjXpVKlbgHunfp2kUIXdu2Hdu3jw/a AUbyH1SqUKFzhw7du3QRU2eb17VTpy6dOrVs1kxcpgP/BA3Vr1vHgWtdqLEDpk6XQ8oBKHVo 115wQ3auCxIPCAhL/O63v2MFDWwwcOBAZ4SWOBa7ASKMozIZ79uEHkSSn/D2vffe94lPfILH AtzUJaVKlEwYiWYKF0sGBldHk0YRUDOEJuS895we8WU2AxfOeIHoyROM0axxYzF1AszBncFZ alStWrJYcdgUdsiSJYqTV+wiUoxxxLVo1hSXVqxQ3p4NrlrqB9wovV+F8uVEo8vCAjztwJap fNmyMtuKCxbhDvgXAo5SZy+IRKBHGHAIY3HWCc9AtWKSggUKOmNrx/KZMJ4wEPbPkOKFQBYV ivHIW+nMXAKV5nyYFPKQpcSFIdhPUJIGHirNeJcZDefI4VwU4wXeY9IUEsrMwJjO9gjNLEpN zPi0KVMdkCQTxk9wnsSgjjKW3HfPPYLBxRAJNxRiSLUTAFq3Th0ijspXl+WzY0cxfngAZzYS zFi/PvuHG2X18J44CZ4pegM/PFmwIMuJVWDXrt3YyW7QSeGYrqI3iuYWBRMkHsZjBQ3xYIHx /vcT/wtC2bB+FAPONBJyfjLb4NjAeHzfacbLkdR9GQ/6Yhkv5r1TjRs1Jgrq1a3HrMevBRVF HEWwzMaN+bKLFC4s8teBXH033nCj8BPmeDEX4tA3btwApSnEi+4HPoYnwcapdrff9neARior BmYtlEkhOx4FMzCifupTnxRl873rrrWRu1702HXXiR9l5Rdf97Uog8DDbiTQTiiKZAc8H1/5 ylfiCL0Mxrvrrjvxm+Xg2aXP/t///Z9jO7q77767RrXqkaj88Y9lTAlRtqJX/Er8piXeZUzP OWZol4DxdCHEA2JDkIHkFrAsQoDhbhkwJ44bB8zRo2vXIYMHyXriQIRbrH+W+MY3vl63Vi0h RXJptmjalK+MRte+TRueCciPAX37yWUiaqNkyRJCE95pd4dp+bgF2tA2JbqQSuhrX/uquFtG mqJFikoJwV5SoEAB2YfkPhAwwhopPYGgSRKPNkniiQoVqC+oxC369O4jJyet9cpPXVmyRMk3 3zwoQwTx+EKcwkyGGFbNd9pq5pgXnh7o5TEDl4DxgpWFIle2dJnmzZsjX3Aqhkr1Ejq1b1+m ZKmunbrI605vnD51CiVT2pnyZcpiBtksbJzq162HY/3jKO/TsydoGBu9/EhqLURxbjHRv9Nc SQYvLdTpj+Pt2wW5eCoBLMRvCKySzUGzYGt9fcfrYGU0yeNxrBAOZF8NAU1hy2ozKdAJPEAM DCeBzjkJPCNbi2eEGk1jGi8P0s3Zo7gEjBcmIOK9ba8KJcRLHHpt2rQWB2R3JIpRRL1/XNJQ woKgBQLLsCBHC1w1kWV/JcUFBJYNGKEnmR+/vA2eXNROnluvS6wpWQ7CeLJ8AuI5nEwc3Emb yDNxZs3opJPgHkhtmbPfeXr0l8EMXDLGC2HUZAtZx1ApE96A/v1BsZIb0DzlgChfpsyTBQqo RpLniTyMnPIOLJgXGet95JKQb4cuV61K1Tq1a2/bGqUGuwymKD2E9Axc+hm4ZIyXyD3cItIH DlNFBF4v6BNGS0Dn3Xv2+NuwXv0QF8MKKlWE8jcRimXaNJ43fMiAoaIQeFeI/730j5vuMT0D l8cMXGLGS0DJ9k7SYJJd0kKxpjSoX89XyWSLFy0yacL4qZMnVShXntuAVGzauBEHoH8ay/YX cmCmue7yII/0KP5bM3CJGc8wQxR9YB6aJy8f/zhnQ/Wq1TgY+MS5B2r4r3JlTvOqVSqrSaIc lwwuIuoyWC4leP+/9dzpftMz8IHOwKVnvNTHSQwSUJ2SK4p2le5TZJ0SsIIS4EXomcrHnbZb XE4JET7Q95K++Yd8Bv67jJeksnkn82OmiEvnHfiQ01n68bLMwH+X8dLTnZ6B9AycdQbSjJcm jPQMfAAzkGa8D2DS07dMz0Ca8dI0kJ6BD2AGPpKMF2w+mZ/zmfX31PhdO0y9eXbkZzgTRWOk ZD4+V5+Z+Zsv7SDf9SnSDS5mBnI242VHY57PXCDULBe+61WXFqgZYOXJJwvvqScQygBHjBRV s36XD7R3AjJVGyCN4X63Cbssfs/BjGfoEpCJJFDDxUeKlMT/fu5k95oJVgLR7tipk7ydIhIC DPqdPn5dvWZNz569xDGcu+V5vlIDWLN6jVwZ3bt1X71qZZY+fVVnr3jxElteeeW8bnfqpIrN hvf88y8YQMoacbqkxHkOLN3sfZuBHMx4KEwAqwKOii0LxpPWUshcVAg6qFyZJXgcJEIgZIuQ 4EwyCFnJfvXrX//gB98XOBsQaoFkIx0vviTjZCxNVFFWhW9BnE43yKLkwHGYxDNOuntSR+WM WhnRANSjEkAo0k8JVaWJw02TSkO+CtuXSDcpc5tUPgoqaBhYUnbHVxVdRB7iPceyYsvYLWGh XqU5DWWHo/7T4IT3javO40Y5m/EmTpz46U9/pkOHjmKO7vxXVEoS9jr1kYjBKNleZmklxA0L qoghupdmQq22lzdvUhA8cNHevXtCEuhUPsSD5OquXTvXrn1exs5Enkj+Jy1nKr85Vv8tFLIy 87hFbbTdu/YEvTF5F9JVSMJ7y5/+BCAu6yGJnSDsDr75piSBcoS2adNGVC9MuQhj5cdSxyMD m7sEXtW/TG6ORQkKXAxh9YraWVNCugqRh4Lyk6Lt50EP6Sbv0wzkbMZTAfiqL1wV6qdLMi0a XeoHRRQ6deoo64TUg+o0pJZN10w9a/wp5C9hIQc4UCDS9773vWu+e43KktgMyrRixQq9evZU JlL6sxUrlovKFeCLGYoUKdy9e/e//vWvxKZKLC6H9q5Vq5a6hJLJ537oIdyC4nPdd79q7IqD Fi9WLMTmxlLq5JEjb/38pz8V6r569ZrTYvP48c6dOunwW9/6drkypQ3v61+7OveDD6ru4kYy d5LkkkpJhJEvTx55QQUZlyhWTP4YgcUwd5s2bVLYUZZeqXu///3vKT4uf+GggYOUQZUlTVpR 9d+tGmmZ9z5x1Xnc5sPAeKHcHBnw6KOPUgiVDZMB6ZOf/MQd/7yjR48eGC8p3aORDLyf/MQn 1CVPpJCDfn37OVm3Tl3JNr/whf+rXKmiSPZrr/nu16++WtXyBfPnhwy5KJtodfBArlwSY197 zTWqr7BnPPrIw5/8xCeFIFavVv3jH/+YMoCkaL06dWfOnKXqqqroI4ZnVPQOeqngep1IAwMr HmSsYoNXfvJTTxV8UuXuaVOnafCpT35SNaUuXbpKgla7dm3Z5tVzJ6uxk+f62BVXVK9eQ5Jf Bd+HDx9uYPJ/eljppG6++feSO+XJk2fK5CmVKlV2F0XGW7RoIaY+bXc5D454n5p8mBjvP2qs KyA+/5l5aj5ffbWK25EOqSxoQnC+ivdD06rUZzBeJAVOPProI6ovBKVOaW+UunHDevJHnukg lDCeXCxKN6qy4kCKNCextxzvbx48IKyesMWBG+NkSnZofnVepRZK41VXXdWkcZQGNxJ48Rpw 7NjbzCo33vBD7KcT8vbJgk/qYf++DLy4pGxqNrwYB+Cr7S6HmtxnNrHKEjnTrl27r3z5SwKv rA62uPICW2vcpWfPnn4lLV3L2uRY9hqrg7ymqXd/nygrfZtzzsCHgfGYWBAWmlZ73gIvhYQg 9x/dcOOBffsz9MlTGVusQJfIXXhuJCIzjSKqnP/5z3+Wy8zJwk899aMf3Sj3EsZTuzyD8fr1 y2S8ufKOKccZGO+mm26SEwnj/eRHP4qDel/A8HL4CryQRRffyu1px2XnmZB+YoORWub+++77 8he/+NILL+bO/fBvf/tbwjncDuMRtspq40kGmEJPPRUYz4LiV0kTv/XNb0iJv2nTxm9945tN mzSWoA3jqVTuV1U+pc1evSra48ntfc13viNxcHjYNC9cPjPwYWC8efPmI6xhQ4dR6iRaJ0/y 5817w/U/3LN7DyqP0hYpdRJ/NGPHJxBQuaRjEY3LOX/0aJlSpSXefHnzywTSH/7w+7/+9dZX trwsXyCKPyvjqeXgvLydzCSB8X584402cljl61+/WqVbumgkA48fW7Vq5Re/+MWmKRLPSfUk QreyHhqMjEw1alT/3Oc+F1JWR4zXurXx2E8eOXLkhz+8PmE8i4JfW7Vs+c1vfF0WpsB4zZo2 SWU8aRaxuiVAyy1btmhQpnSa8S4fjssYSc5mPDsi4uuvf/ubRJ0sCtgAsSK4B+6//+qvfVUq aHn7ZNGcOmVqEDiB94TCf+ELX7jh+uvt3277+9+nTJqocAIr4q9/9evb/n7b5z73WXwlv5hU gY89+kjgBNYUN1q0cFHY49kKOkmgsce4S+7cD3FoOOAAkM+ziZj6GjVtGnPlyvWnP/5R+9o1 a4YBUDTfOnpU1m2bwwceeMBmjFDl+mCTNE7M9uCDD1WrUkXCqOBOOHT4kAd5/NFHidNvf/tb IUVvwwYNlHRWHWXd+nWf+fSnpfpUJ8xdOnXqHD1dr16Ob/nzLSqHSvL7y5t+oe6KwkZvvnno sqO+j/CAcjDjRX7t1avLly//1JNP2iMxLXJhoTx03LdvX5aSw4cPod1ixUvIlptpVMwogrdk yRKZJvLlzVumTJmQoX3pkiWly5QhWzjBfN2/b7/k1gMHDoom6NSpRYsWlStXzsZJ/s9y5crL FoOJevfu3ahRY0qgBBb16tU/fOiwnLlVqlRRBkwy3BbNmxmXHNgMnqHPsMezFRQK7KcCBQr2 6N6dwyNTFK9ma3niiTzdu3aTSLtq1ap6s+1knlGDRQJCObVlpqEvsr5UrVKN319hzWrVqqki ZmDlK1ScN3++rrgWWrVspX9Zfd1UGaZiRYs1atgoLpT77jiYjzAvvK+PnoMZLwvwKoim4DtP jsNBIu7iqWVXzJr8L0tXiWxMlZOOQ82jjM5jX3y4Y3KQfTazDCD49pOTKWPOejK6XVzMPdtd Mu6LiVNulzGwgBA4PciUeyWmnfeVvtI3e4cZyMGM54kCICP5JM8YzoSv72RUOPdVSedJJ6kd huPkLllud8avmbfJMv/Z736Wx3mHu5zrdpmPnPrUqe3TjHCZzEDOZrzMScyE88d5ls49s7Ek OXviwFAUNsiZiA1SOzpxdgY+U5ZGl4QJvbC3G+RbKt8GGXthvSVXpfYQS9ywZFxst9lHFeT5 eRpPo3m+yAfLyZfnYMYLalXMJxnFzVNddmd9KciCnVAi97MSDaZl6oTw0HOis6WSLzY4gxmh yQ4dCkBKn5DS9+jRt0DMLmA3hR/Azdhgjx59O1Bwklz0+LsFKZxDpgW7bpZBBlY0d5eWdJN5 i5Ljv8MKmDHUeInxXJd2ADmotxzMeIYu/bsqPw5e27Zt5MiRGStuCj1loUgvm9Fvfpy7OnlJ QcI4M3bM2LJlynAqRILr5MlevXoqmB54+9CbB2vWqLEmNpkmOiFoJQxXEhWhKkP//v1nz5rZ qWOnpNlZNcwst05t075t29WrVrmcfaV69erlyparUaPmwhicfVaqSgafNIjQ1plNiTWrABvp nrgsWXhMZiR2I3lMzd5Zx5mI3NN3jKYoQ7s++zD8GkmwE6Bt3bt1MxWhWap+Hs6E/ScLsLLy qswT6HGb00tA/MoybhIdXerV4TJhzhzMeN4fFOWwYcMcrF29mjkxxazwH2rMGV8zzQwd2rdX F8VPQeVKbcNEmdRIQQ4lixd/KNcDwavO38BTFy5MPvsP7GeHJD/DGX48BlI2RgX9UpvFq39W m0pQa8MnlSKV5gRDcRICUywSg+2Lz78AL5baONFmk5PPPPPMCy9EjrvsHzRdpnTpBPzN3aLP uXPnrl+/HtLgrFOUejI1BiI5HwaQxZATfuUyZUNOFqPs42FP5tv0yM8tXx6gQhmTQPU9ccac ZJmfy4RhLtUwcjbjATEHZti6ZUsokrx27RoHEF4onS9B4T4FjJT88ZxDnh4CzIXspPcM5G55 htKEhLT245l//ON2QOdDh4CJT1HzlLYtVrjIizFBk5PFihThxHPVwAEDXeK+Rw4dIiGbNWuu OBmfOAwXMSUdfdPGjV0yccIEjgTgSb3Fmt6pdevWqT0GWaLw2PbtO/r169+sWTM98+D79O7Z S4F1qLckGogDoGbNmkYCitm7V2+IcEU2ZSilD/MouESue9VdDB7MTb0xGG6xF9DhilhzpZBy XO2G91SBAkHi+bRs0Tx1+bBqqJ7rcaZMnkT2zJgxs0uXLk0aN546dVrTpk1HjBjBf6j8k3ir nj17jBo5yvysX7/hjTdeBwQ1FRz3oS6Np2ioEsaYsaIlxowZy5uiTevWrT2vmoRmHgZ9/Ljx O19/49FHHgHdduHE8RN4VlauWKGUd9u2bT2Xik5eh/cFgkPfBtCrV68e2PdpCXipqP4y6CeH M16PHhxxFDz0V6N6dZuZmjWqL126lMyZO2f22jWrVSnqipQ6d/YWoftR8MO5c8+cPiNQ4YRx 413F+6wi9IplyytUqICybRTDm27epInqYoMHDrRjaVCvXtu2bZC4gs9g1oLcSpUsaWnX26hR o/jxlPJbv2FDsaJFpk6Z3LJ5c5KTgrdi+Yry5crjk9Dh2tVrli97dvCgwfh/1apV4pjokGTm ooULJ0+ajDQXLlx0/733GXO8LpzikYO6tr/DLerAvPzylnJlyr7x+uuulX57wfwF4h6sC5gN 0UNI099g06wOHdp3oAh07NABt4wfPz7XffeFrMH4X83QLS9vCeuOvwL5pPQGDADIVtUMB5ol K8uDDzwAzlr4qULLly2/9S9/GTd2bNHCRejVVjRTQWxWr1YtWo969hTN6NdHcudetHixsocW l7x58ryyZYvGvKkrn1u5bcuWObNnqZgtOmnDunWtW7cSh4Eb8z7++I7XtoOzzZhuwO29Jrgf RUsVG9W5laVooUKehVj+UNpgcjrjdcc5EydN4j1HuC+9+MJDDzyABIXwwDELz1F+CCwLir9P r17oA61079o1YTyiaVG8fVK62RIuvGD9+nW+hl2HIipCSJX1e27Fii5xmQegUChKQkybIUOe dgv4LMoVE0uNaAe42r0wXpvWrYiRpwoWhFp+5OFH4mJjERR7z569cG21a9dRBX41aRzXW+cc VzJJjaTFixZFEql58xXLl6cwXjWi28Ixa0a0WACg7Nq5U6Q5BrMXjW8XgXKQOEf53j17H3zg wU6dO4uHsvRUqVgxCDq3c5UDXcHQIPqE8dxu7uzZvpooSb7bt2urHwjPRvUbOFmnZk2kryq9 Y8vX4oULYdAUuLeiQc84CbNqVmnXVA9fmzVpGuEQSpZc/uwy/JzQlqXNSzG2DRs2KBplzHTR EsWKLlqw0AriwmiJqV5j+fJloVvIoeHDhls+OnboGJaMJKLyMpBVl2YIOZ3xeii57sVs2bwZ HYPzI3cUbBexbdurVStXUbeoV4+ezZs2xVpjRo/REouKQI/kXUQoTYT8OOjTp09c46Hl889H dTAD4ylstH7dOu3xtj5Rw/Rp05FmYDzhORivdu1aGI8hVJsMxpscM17/ARaC5cuXr1m7lh2V ukipU5hFvomhQ4ay06xa+Zy7h1tPGDcOPwcLCjVvxbJlWRiPNJg5Yzp5VblSZbqfZPj169XT Zt/+/YSneHYYmvnz52G8fHnzzJkzd8WKFQBlFcqWjRjv1KmK5cqJMAyP3LF9h4DwDh86ZFC8 RTnFjNeOVCf6LEmmgPoAc1eubFk6uQr1JDPgTq0aNaSrSBhPKv6pU6d4Cp24iq2rdMkStsTl SpdW/dNJJRCB4BYvXkJXN59DBj89bep0ANfiRYsuWbS4Tq1a2hi5NWXF8mUe31cQ9rHxy/Jy K5YvB/j24bOw5GzG69ShA7LzhtauXmWZP3L4kIrQY8eOmzNn9tZXtqrCZ9OCRqtbpNeuLVu2 7IwZM/55++30yUB2djIVCY2pU9lRtmx5GcosWBRjxjtRvUoVYT5UtVtvuQW5d+3WbdLESRiV MjZt2lS6mQiAu++6i/Ylao5eR1oWK1x4wrixlDEaoOKbtCb/mBDYcWzkShYvMWH8BMTtdkgz ADi7dOo8dtQosbyRfjVt2t9uvXXZ0qUx451EjuwiMN842bpgVJUrVcLSipm5+7atVLjZQn7b t21H4tE2d+/ehR/69+s/b94zIoawa/v27QcPHqTEvP1neK6tW7fBqhmzqaDaPfPMPHFStqYl ihWn1EGWkdgUh9o1a5gBxQynTJla+MknBUlAfs+bO4eSSQCSe+Da5u3BXLlEA5oiMln/BrZw wULMbxMrWMmiYAJ6dO9mxZk/f/6/77rTRprMr1O7Di0gz+OP7XzjdcqzXZyWdolUaOuXfhg8 Bw0Y4OmETRbMn4+4jhnvQ6Vy5mDG8yps53CUA+YTlISyrNYtmregpciqYLPEQgDfGCwco0aN FlBDY6RrhU0XKUT+MGYKnGOnmz17Djt4+IlWNnPGTK9cLDnCcvLZZ5996aV13j5SYyBhGGRI wIrdunbDdSLfhPkISF+37qUgEl2Ojok4VhDCSqcvvvCiMtQDBgw01Fdf3Yaw3IcNEwNoMHjg IMF77CUqchqAreabhw5ZGt4+dgxSFFc7iSXQqBxJrvUULVu2tDti15HsqEWLlhs2bIRWpTC3 atXKGYKCqta5c5cRw4YdOhhbjOJ93Yb1G8RGNW3SFOLUyfA4OjQDwiNog0L4bWbNgOAmSw8r CFMHcaeCvFgkthn9WCMYThTTtsS8tG4dY4n2Otm69ZWxY8dQHQ8ePEA7ZXbasH4dZcE4hw0d ynwiSNLwbJLhV60pONBusFu3bpCufsVqfBI0BTrLwAH9CUD7z2gVjLyCaca7NFruxfZyNhzj acRjlhUlC0IyZq0zai/7GsRgGFZG+0x3Q3J5oN3wyeKxSAFyngZwRs0yP8mFp3vIhJVmsdpn ONDjeyV3yfII2Xs7x5nEMJh9HlIGkzF7wcmS2jLJCpM5RWdBlqZ6F7Iv52cdW+pkJpdk91KE 7FUXSy6X2fU5W+JdZpOZHk56Bs53BnI244WlMDyDv/+NdfG8nEjvgOTM/hKMMAMReib67Hxf 17u1o6clYiQW25dOUMT5qoMwjKc6gqWE40QipaoM7zbSj/rvOZjxImTgsSi5nWc4cvhIAApe SlIL4XMAlJlozOzE4tY+4dbnRUoxgIad8xwpn0Of59XbmY3CTlL/zDkh7V8MXr2Ans5ySUaw VZxEmCE3mvaTMqYd0f2xY8cxYvxconwjS+alueWHupcczHgBlGxbz5gmHlQmr8R+EA4CBWec jMD4Z5yMfsgkkYTQkwszcsyePMkAGNIohJkKxJCx0mceMJ8wHjCuhPMZvUUwwwBFPM1FbJvA GdBtsgwi3+R2qaPN6OJsMUEBpZ3cInNIp/tnfhRcW6tWTaCZZc8uCyDIlIfKGH/2543Dfc/F 7R6Njy6a6qpVx4we/eqrrzVu2Ei0LjOmK3kO1LiHs6lZs4Zmad5710UjBzOeoUNISIk3e/Zs tjKZS84EQJ6BwwxaEBRI9l0+MRkLh+NhLlIrKyDFjRs2nC4WHRN+zF0Z3fCYAXIxq0iORBSk dp6p8sX6WCa78kZwasGy6DbcNwnbTa6dMGHCypUrU7six7MPO+PNRewSc2PMj107dwFzEboO xsUgmfJ2U0N44+CjTANSKmDVc51VdOtH5l9wNu51YLfXXnuVvZEbAGhG6he99ezenbN029at 7psYjd+V+D7KDXIw43nfDOuSWCZEiWgGDRhYpWrV3r37HH377aefHgLhIWPCqBEjYa840y3M cICcXc2aN2fdrlql6jPPzMUwjPi0MokkeAIgs6Smrle3Hm8SdPLokchr6759e1u0bFGrVm2+ JmEQfG4w+ERcseLF//WvO3E+vziQNN8G1JVkDbyCL7zwYrt27bnRIdpwV5hoRvmypcsEGyZX Ne+WA64tcrtJk6Zt2rR9Ye3zd999N+Al2z1HWeUqVYYNG+7K0aPHcJPobeTIUXXq1DVgcBl4 EYiZkLrChx+iQrnyQQ8MH+tRl85denTvsWPH6zzgnpcj0Ug4SPRPUXRrDhjhFJ4XkitSHUMs YmYPiYQ3G+pMJD0DAwG7hK98DOXKlnFt8utHmaPO89lzNuNhKlnDYrmBlE/xDpUvWxbFYwzw rkKFCtG7+HaLFi4Mc8hxDOj477vvHj92HLAvyCVvFXyTNZs/2n6Ok7pr5058g8CNWKhK5SpL Fi/hXwawhF8BziBDZKpdumQpkQKECc4CRgzvAh8t1R9S1icHF6xww/r1YankJuKnKl2ylFCA RMh07tTZ7dQ/AVXhsufyMmYAK5UPeL2xE5TzyBEjXFizeg1eNU5zmaQrV66M1qGN9UnMQoE8 PWhw6VIljYTHMkhX4+Gdc2DwHGikK6aSahrcxIVgJc57XoPx+Dz4ADe84YSYrE3AAIQYn57L 9cbDKdxB4plEVjds0PD5taejoghtqVy6du2q/arnVsLKOjBmrsjZs2afW2s9T9L8cDfL2YyH Vp59NgPn4cVDPwyPBSBHMEhHvbp16J8L5y/o1qWLkyWLF/NVPAHUv8zNI0cMf/Pgm+XLlFa9 AJoR40lSBPW7bNmzUBra8+pOmzKldq0oHK5i+fJJqAuEIfRJ7ty5582dC5gClmkSixQqTGpF AMW4aoIIicGDBgYEI7h9iPSJfcCRrLMdhbDhLyaCpkyZ0qFdO7gtTAuo7VeLBeCVWz/84EO2 jlKhLVq0MGStxYEtmjXXpnKFiuDaoGc4n8pK3YwYYOWqgOR6bfv2jh07YoaNGzcEMKSFwNLj oG+fvqCVXNjQBWRUtapVwFwAXPwEMSOeIEgt0ljaX0tA4EN/HYen8DW4+PbvP2AAAGh0yxAa 4om6dumapFT7cHPORT5dzmY82wxbi0TDGdCvX8h4CQMFMIUa1r30EjgFxsMMJYsVI5QwHigW /iRVYD6gojAevnLV9OnTevXoQRSgS19VCALdYE4gScqWKqWyl5PPrXgOdtGODriJXgrKGKCP gPwEkRgCE8qiiCKHPj0kpHZu0gT8MuCeMwwzjjEerVI8IY6dNjWKbNq2bWvZMmVF2UgyLawB OLNK5UrSh23dtk3RH1wEo+zXls1bIHxISLAsWiGciicNMwAUTrp6HMe2ZDHmez2hGo2hUSPA SAc0zxnTpoO/gNFE4M+KFa0drVtGz2t9oW068AjgY8IvILaC7HKSug5ikkx1OLCQlS9bThAQ /Tlgr23zwMqTh71I6vwQX56DGc+6Kw4I2M/mR6wXzSpCSxYtKmyMQkX+UNIYJKOok3btAK+e zJ9fcQ9qJ+Ai/oTWlTzTV0GiwJODBw/Ony+/JNBUTUod0rH8Q3VCZgLv2klWqlDRBgnErHSp UsTUww/lxqgLFiwsXqz42jVr8z2RBy4Z9kpyS4AskmrihImdOnTUj3BvgwkEjSswqruDO9tb zpg+TdkgLI3oGWkMHnga4llsgQgAjya2TVwfM73dncD5WKlr4MFJb2OzaxXWoDxQIHR/NS5S uPBo4Q6t2xCSJCSkuPNw4bZ/IP+lSpSkb7OFkI1AniJ94dGo3/aQ1atWE0aQdBVYK5C+kZtq wFGg6nHjxi1cYCzP2OtaDlh9NbMdtYKYeboAqGp84SXyY3xImS8HM17AFqlZ1a9fX2YMUdi+ KpwgqjJKanDq1Lxn5gpPhVoUFcZ2ggPZJ2logkRffPFFOx+bHNs8+5nVq1d16NCBGAQRtPvC J6QKsbNl88u6xRiWfVYNbZCySBlCxoZQYBty7NWrN7aBzHQM2ElRpPFKaiAsdeXKVZhEEKBq dcEHsHvXbtB7Ymfzps1GawtHAut8/vwFbdu2U3VMG/BuDYgOGE7PhVvkcdEJeKf+RXB7cBuz lSufAxPt06c3QRfkUtAAlyxaRFZ369ZVnmmTYz2KvJHHjsFG4gpD0obMpwaDU5PYrP8Vylc0 5kmTJodOEmZLpfloqnfvxmYqNwgFZGSKZmzYcA6MYJ59dslS97XrE5KX2s+HlHEu9rFyMOMl pJboP6mQwiABsvwUnjb5KRycFQOZ5WTYRGX/pE5flkQSoXEqyDO6XYqPQ6g7AcKtl9ptAhk9 Y/DvkMbi9NPFZBB4JvsgA7onOZ/l0UClGVTDr+dgmHMgRWP80BkOj3DmYmnzQ319zma8nPtq zLtNXefOnXfv2nlmIsH3+5nYReWcjtj2PME37/cAP5z3SzPeB/Zes8irD2QciWs+QtsdT8uo 9+8lpBnv/Zvr9J3SM5DMQJrx0sSQnoEPYAbSjPcBTHr6lukZSDNemgbSM/ABzECa8T6ASU/f Mj0DacZL00B6Bj6AGUgz3gcw6elbpmcgzXhpGkjPwAcwA2nG+wAmPX3L9AykGS9NA+kZ+ABm IM14H8Ckp2+ZnoEczHhxmscMMH5I7hhCb97rS4WZDLMQgIuOU+H277W3828f7hINOyOO4fSl IVDg3J8kniCjcQhNCBkv40+YkPiJMrJZJ8EZyU9JCEVSFDI1ju7MsImMyQkhF8ktUoeadBs1 eIfohIxHzoyWOOszhnGeT3xD8qbC857njL3b1L4fv+doxjsugaRMOwoehPcktDQqzfMeP+Lo JIOQux9QWIidIL04LewJGUfE1L1T6EBCxO/xbqebG3AIKfQ3yTLkZyvHoWgw70hGgR/kL1Ip QfomyQX90YnAQtmZMugvypwbLUzCC50PS5IDl8R3PPHWkWjqhCbs2bM7JErcs3uvZ08YSdj7 jtdff3Xbq8IRpb2QXdRESQkTzU9mHIObRj9l1pR3awUbBPueIywoZHPzV4LAqBTz2RbKI6rP HDoUErqde3rdyPOLAIwm8JwgbzdSP1C5lQt+X5f2whzMeN6KkiCFCxcpX768mjvmRSEuQdln ov5Px6Elj5p6gAIkhhg3Zkwo6dy8aZP1L70Ueli6eHHd2nVioZqZqTqOxQ5SMdBxdJz5axLz FjFPyoqeiKZIIsWfRFxYo5VFkU9JHGo476/g1Hx58qKSs5Kdk35Sk0z6oxrVqklmMWTw4Pnz 5rujNCoSioWrYu49JEGLHBOK9QiWlQRNLgwJHUJ2DPHjhQsXln9T7LmvIoNKlyotq8XmzS+H B1RJS+2X2nXqlChRQj4YZ6Q2Gz92rIygoorDg8ho5hYh2UT4KLckv2DqY2al1xMnhSM3adRY foCe3Xsk61d007ipg0mTJgmxdZyljkKsz2Smr86czEOHolJ7wurDTSPxHmVJy3jvyd39pNRu wwb1w7u7tFx0Ab3lbMYLOeeIK7m3vH605aVaBRFEyE0kdlu0NbKTalptGhOuio3zcS7naJmX EkKWPqm+oguPH1ezTra8kKlOqhW14MK6G9ggfFSl079mqhxbm8PqLhDbT/v37Uu4S/0gvzqJ evQfsu6RTqFlLO2itV8AePWqVTrG6YZcK/+SxJsPP/RQKKyV5Y0GaabmkdQS+MqodCv1g1QU 0YAXLmwYF5TMYOAZM2vXrOUWEq5MnKh82Fi50qSZqVi+whtv7JR/dvLEqFyZgXhezC+4XslI SdNCD+5ltP6akwH9+jspnp1AM11uahyRgD1yBMWHUuYmXz9SV+jBGwlBydnVPyeV1FMQk9Q1 53oIExjl84z0jKiQ4N69+6gbo0eNxn6+xm9nj+eVsjp5F5HUlUj32DGZF4sWLqTCkZ/27tsb K9sIIJreAwf2hzGEN67iZ4P69dKMdwHLxBmXmE35C6QeMbOWZNXhlFaUXESevFo1a6urLNeY 1H0Ki1etVk3qFOWOK1WsJNlJqxYtJUeRztkbVU1WZjuqZs8ePWlRsnFpQ0qowuU91aldS+eq z+lNTgdZfVSQrFatuvSYbVq1/sMf/oA4QqJOmQUlcZHQWvE3SVz69elrRVfRynIg54ocKtu3 vybZniRIJJWsE15/RGsxN0pRERjPZ9SIEf379lXQTycJC4WfgiClK6q8l5o8V5EwCSw0UNFS TdbQ2EdmJDUDpSSUr0VWmKaNm4Q8ufILyq0iA0WD+g0krUDrMlyE0sqknPRHFqkgE5yRu1Yi I6wlHYb0FmHOlYyVRUJ9eckpLAFS11A0ypevgLFNmhTD7qgs4e7dewIDJ0MKfbq7BIcmPzCh rKS4i1yVf0lqDPM5YcLEAf0HFCxYUBHZpc8+a3klq/M8kWf9upeGPP10hQoVpcawQjVp3ERi JSl0S5coIfWTZlKqCuo/8tYRiVUVnY5qa0s3HKeiqVSpcolixcx/SO59scR30dfnbIknKdgT jz/x5JNPNmsSZbZq07pNvz59LN5UUDm/VCr2RjGVcseoTQlLqY1e3rzl3rvvlgTJu5w+daqc JbNnziI6MJu/UdHWoUPkyUOyVE2aiaRjRJAstxUrlKdrPVXgSbLIvkKbGtVrWEddSNkjHCSH xhV66N2zR8F8+W0nsJZ8gZhZs2NH30aO8rXIfSLlHiZKDANy+6mwafwouE6t2mR1tSqVSYNA H74qE42BQ+72TZs216xZK17Io0IRDtq1aZsnTx6FKQsWKFi/Xn2XHIlqJ0RqcMkSJf/fb35D vURrmPmlFyMt2pDGjBqFQ3AsQmzbuo1nlKEoqJdlS5ci2SI+jzvv2qWzTDAOqH/9+kVZKnCm CntPFsj/zNw5tpSFCz2Fc0yC/bAMn1RN+UtlH5UwSh7BaJwnT3quSZMmWhnDE/krd8uTBQvK oSYHXKsWzTdt3HDHP26nvCycPx/34u2e3bpT/vv37xfeoIQuMhpa7yxnJtYyKjna448+Kukb SViiaFF7UfMvMWmp4sXVpldfVvFtSdaktLHLxefyXHl98jgaUprxLmrdiFZf5Ua7dpN6VeYv mpIcRCqJSuq65eXNqEeWS6RJF6JxeT1jxoxWAN3uR6lXKopMW7Z2gwYOkM6ImiR7LD3KCrp5 40aqqWoMC+fPsxVR1TH3Q7mbNm1WuFAhRRLpdWQdBpOtCK0bg0xbJFggTYmrH3n4YTk7EZbz XraRyDOp6KQslI8+/EjtWrXUHmgoU1hmfRUXSs2E2hy0bdO2atVqhC1VU1KjIB+sDldccYWF IFAMc0iF8hVcHudgjxp0aNe+b99+iHhklIEvSr9ZrVpV2fgIfyPctHGT7KOSiNKyQs5pOyvF n4MUOnb8mOxpshjGtZ2lEjtcoVyUri/6Lb5X9WpVg248beq0wYOj1NG1atRcv36DdKO7d+4k ssuWKW3XJ0116HDNmjVkjgMZqCRfDCc9nUfo27t3xM+ZezNZp3DF5s2baMKG59WYW3J42dJn B/bvp8w19Vj604h1T5zUZt2LL9FuHnzgAVkGZVKTetAW14pmybPHw3gjRgwnAx+4PxfhLJep h2VzkiLR17pxweeN6zeEEtNpxrtYxkNDiMacyq4Z8md6YWafUkfJrFq5UmQ76drVrlob/IAC vKeqFSsxYsppOX7cWGqkjF00N/obxtOPVJxv7NxZQzmO+fMaNWgwYfw4RPnmm4cOxkVV9UO9 JLJY0uSx9tW2SlXUtavXlCxRwg4K71GfnJcXjG4TLrH8Y0V0tmr1qsM0uSgzV/RJrClKk2um 7rG0fOq8/uWWW9wl2HAYFSWcJaAsGWHfZdl+Ji46Gz6SF6JCB1jOoqNz+iHpLb2f3KHO+5XU tdAQtr7Wr1sXe4RryZMK5ctZODz+sbeP4l5LQxBKfu3bu0+oEe9DZ+vff4CDMqVKrd+wgagk 1mybCRP6BR4IzVavWa0EswNSS20TBzpT+hxTydUZKdjRJ8PIVKZUaZk5ZWcsX6YsPqGTV65Y ycj79O5F37ZQhpkk8IcNifIUW0qsj8yqllEagc3qgf0HPG+ZUiWlVLXAUV9NjvRNqtWSvQS4 bYOnsxOJ52dZtGlPG1cuiu3ihVPuV6nUbc/oHl6YysNegL2HN03BkHOWQvj4Y4/LZCklprIK FmbWDUqLNyd565hRo627pCWZwDxDqWNIWPfii6+/sZNiJnlk3dq1WR3Z+qKq3IMGIg70pLFc sfrPlzcvC2SDevWdl41PyXXcpZ/evXrTyuyC6I0SUBIINDELBIlE3EkFL5Ulug6Gh4gxZsyU 4jJhJAdVK1UKxqFEPjiOWsfqn61agXz5KYoeH/V36tB+aqzU0cQ8e9KPgsaFnnrKgIsULqLW NLovUbwEg1CdWrVw7zNz5lIWlExo37YtUrRm2Z3KqDtz5ozQA6lu6iQvpKiTyXaMZL6Huutf /6Lu1qheTRZ3/dDeLXOutQzhwCWLF4WEtj169AwSL8seD08/v/Z59lL8Zj3yq+LYD+TKRQex ajxZoGB0bfcexKORFC9aTIp+Sqkq87LQSwFM0bXBk5rNg5PVrFk8D9RL2RatHfJk57rv/pjx mq5eufLAwQMVypbDqHazkhRbGW1D9J+WeBfJeiet0CNGjLQuBlMEFUj9ILttTIi1qKCUfsV3 hg8fMXnylI0bqX6bvWDrPdcTQqRKIeVZs2exgqgr8NZbR5Xz3r9/H3cg4tCnv7qVqdZ+Q4ER Ak25Dx2+eehNQ6d5yodp48SAqdkLz6+VSRZXUJ+wmeyuVFbjkQyXuT961LhKOCmEaJJ3H+wl EmwmcxHl+Vy1yvbpbPQRmf/ci3mDP0AaX5TnqVhuULAkogaT9KMZ48eQIUNtdwMvrVmzdsTI kbt2RuXEJH72UDNnzjIhhBLzCTvTM1G6segT7fcOHpRp0/RqRvvVP51NNls7KJZh02WG5cx+ bsUK+gLiHjt2rLoRJs2qpzG3xGvbtgX5lvrx1XThEzMZKxEnvaOQXt4uMVS091pf3vwyFXfi xEkyoCqDYdiS1StJz/eowAMlxcbPezRLVlJjsAQsW7bMhFhq2V3pI5HJ9OhR6wV92DFXkzdI nblYmrtE1+dg40qqNMiyssZrWkoKyxRpEq5Krj2zslesAmUa9MJFqQt2SjcZtofkzFnzYZ7R PsW5Fw0ghR5Dsyxn3tHwdmbyzOT9JeNMJYxkAIHtU0abJQ3m6WycyeVZKIOim/I4mbXHYqUx Ow0lg8nuToi4OqWj1JZZJjx7t6nzmepeP+sYkrechU4uEeNcbDc5m/Eu9unT16dn4AOagRzM eBbLZPRBOwoC6lLOZOYtguk/rLJZbhCt2SnFYrNInowLM4Esrk0VO6niNFEss8jYLG0iQGnS W1yJ/Ayxlu3howk5w5OWkez9vc5SIo6S580+1Umb0HmQOUGSx6PIQKWeqUecgYzNuCS+PExd xtPFVplU8Z78FCpsJhpH7IS/pDTwXmfq/NrnZMY7fpxxcssWxRG2ej0HDhxUEOHSTrqXGpAT sQUyep1gK1lqptIJbTDsKjOoTZVwu59Dh8LXBJpoJ7bjte0xnOKg3SZkhjH7avuhyMGGjRtY U5JLbOE2bNjI4geWoQ3XCD+4j32XF+Z2Nqs2OTjQ3mzbtlc3bFivOOtZnz1GyBzne1SyyxgS pMj5kUdGK0NVOMVGLjx7BAw6cCAq457Sizb2xgyOYRjhjRheJuNFLGQ36CnswWxVudftM5l4 wzzYHJoFM2OEoddQKzce+UZmEvMMPrpp8+bDbx6KqDae54ALDcgyW2VTcekX3/c0U+fdOAcz nilmqCxQoACsCazjunUvhepwyaoZjkmEQAepP6WKytS5ymJrdgksCNe58wiCAZBlLwJ2pIC5 tOGLZ0EN/b999K08jz/OPZg5jKikEeM7uytfBXplZgRe4dTmxEdMjgEs9PB8XGndYI6+fZQR r06dOmXKlKlapTLjQblyZSFu6tevhzIxKkc8MynPHuMNFEjevHlq166lxhBTx1nsMXFNJYUs QXaAeEKxsWha4k+4Y/T3zD1laj/hF2WG2HK13LtnjzEbQ2ob/WGApwoW7NGtW+jfje6+8061 BMMtNN7+2nYGZC+rR7fuVpAWzZt5BP4DDIMhlWoyh0yj/EChZxeqjlKkUCHNmG2xPb8O2IqZ dIlnZyKGEIAo0nLRosWKGbHfqj2YEMB5c8EH0DBnM556yEyall44abYvrlXIzEgURNrYKedB +EFEYmo+xueDaKK3EpePVXkHXDPWTML6Gq+cQb+JpYSWjGBPFSjA4a6BGIg+vftwWwErhVcb tB1m6wL58sVglIhW+KYfffhhjuCEppVibtUy8inrMwYiRmOAseKWcEmtWrWA9AMnJO8/0C4X Ip+BS/Ati2tykjfZsRKtHhlqhA09/HRW8tEtaczUHiBabkO0sg1akAio0C3RQTQlAtOsRDOT oSJGz6gSYJ5HH2vXJipbCQ4CjRlVoowrwifzAOf5+COPdOvcOQyGizXXvfc+M3t2Mg9gesEd J5ri6FtH98NVxvg1dcswlRqd4cIgVONhHyxetCgfaXTy2DFOF04Lx1FVtvETeGUxeVRbs0oV r4mnbu2aNdtffY3v4aww1w+At855y5zNeKRHcKBXr16DLbtA/ny1atYCwmShZmeP5EyFCtxK bx48wDmrUhwX9sJ4DSYh8SpGpUEFig+KzYwZylYtdQbtOetaLxicivvBSbKOeAp8kvAqMATg RQSJOHWKpZ6rmi+R6zkm8ij+BU1wJXNeE1YJbXFgQDBpYJ3u3r370qVLUjknNIM+4zcH91WC jz+NX85JhcSqVKqs8BjAGvs7lGapUqVZ+XftysB2ZhHvboHTVN4MHhdAFsLKs4tRgLHi4Nqz ew9NwTKUcL4DZQBVBQuPQEo3atBQnc0O7TOcjZwf0KfJUqGN9U5XADrd4yqZ3Bgtm7ckIWdn egWxfdmyZUBPpkyZZM6jQcbhHcFJyNOdN29eJQq5ExJG5QUh3HhKleNzkqfE2+TM4OLHaSbc JDhP4sGaQagErDaVRNG11Mm83FgujCeHM16PHqWjaoktOUxfevGFwk89ZTvUqWMnPiLeapAO OgxZBPFQIF9e72zunLla8sMiRE68ShUqzJsXvdRkpz5s+PA5szNAIZzOMGj2TlGlxZgqufgq la/A+5QQh57xGJcgwIqTsKMLFixQjxaAJuqWpH3r6EMPPIDhjYpqRMKAGloa/nXHHevXrder oIGBAweWKF4c80TdZm6QOAA5fMkiG6rRI0ciUGUrLS7aAEz97re/LV+uLJFjm9S/Xz8162hx RERQIHm0Bw0cZCsVhwedNAlPPPYYqlUxE4DOP15paiGOov268OlBg1yVaoYB++IfD/w/bOgw /jF4zgQXpta5KuoJ42kD0wyGCnwXqk+bDY44LLFg3rzQCdfl7X//O7CBn1q2bOV2XkeRIoWB 4/bt248DKedQRDz+bhQumTFt2q233NKlSxfaKfyDMwKXbv7tb82VZRFWRl1eJ7naoXA9CICO Pv9w880BqHR58lsyqhzPeDVr1qRu2QhZv4MONnTokJHDh9uPzZsblapE0JDQ9WrXpmpGK3GL FlMnTwKVUBQOzYnKCeQO0QurlS9/vmLFiou7EdngQBktQBNUy6VrpiLGq1AhqJq+gkrnzZMX TkW19IIFCgBM5H7oIVqQJRk+m/pkli3DDz34IIe4S4gaVIWRoF4QKPBkYm/k66cyhSUgiCxA DRU2HSQxaQplUi89jnEK/rXkI7hAo6HzZXE5eB+AG9hIkPxAf0ailDRmo2F6EIoiafn4o4/x Pnv8m37xC0IvuvXxEyJqBw8aDORx/3331YCfbtvWQz2cOzcfOgBa8WLFAn4a4yUSz1chObly 5YJxIzltPufMmQPdakkqWqQIHGmIh8J4ue6/H07aMfgIaCUtkWlEYGGIRQwf8U1hJxkdT5qM Dx2wCVFeQGHtUe0dDI+4BoUNwDfAIC1FMFN26tdvkDfPE8xI4cEv50/OZjwY6UBePiB5ETWw uAwcOGrkCLssaAdfMQ8oE5Cetw5WInATjIvwQRDEEUNZWOnhLQirunXrQUELlmFJGzNmTFQV uUGDu+++O6hA9CUlvyPTYhy1ybo4bNhwberUqY2qFi9eMnDAwN59ehcrVgzFJOEFkPIQzy5n PEiWc2AL28UQFuRDAQY7jqg/7KxOnoRTiwo4xyFnoQ2lC/W3Ugx5bCQbx40dg3UTksXqNjm+ Ghi8OAlJ4kER6M0eD60LHfAroCblmTRjtCDxdFi0cJFhQ6OtVwhTMkVMGsWLl6BtstzQZgd4 qN69WTUee/QxS4aW1i97vNB5vB7tJ6ysbqVKlbIAqWXta+/evXLnzq2ZWdKG/blkyZK0DA9I /qsNGEYOj0JHTZ5C1I99e/hqd0fERQcvvqASPXEdxjl92nT6vP02DdPX2lHQUwb0lApqHtwr dcN8ebJfzma8Xj17jB0zOrwnaK9Qu9yajbZodHQzWigwJ+t8zWrVAb5QFZ3Ei8EDUIt4EjmG lxQ6oaAmqmY4s3XrKxbXcEwpgg+0ZcowK2T60yiNtosJ9YDVU958Dd2CUJIVjRo2omjZaFnR O3ToWKhQIbApVGi9V9O4VKmS6DW6JCreesomqljRIqxEemCTJFHhpMlnazwiwyp0SyBJ+z2B diSAzuG5Q4qHLHu8iPH2G3aFsMezKgm9o28XyC+uZy5IKv4sVbIUiZF6LVmHSZInip9iUbfO 0f7NBzbVGpekWkiaUfYE4yRfgSotYck8AH2VK1OO7AJ8hSZjLnYX4ExbNc8IrWpmPKOY+qAw W3GaNW4irI51F9SOUs1oqWB14UKFCepXX32VZdhCCZ7qwWkxwLelS5acMSPCml6ezJY6qhzM eKj21ddeQ0+BYmDWoxQpJ07s2LH9jTeiRADIl34Cx4iWvTZaH20zorC4CPjkKVMIIpEjYTqC LXPH9h0Qj8G6Gc6Tb9Sz8NUL1qe/Wd6rbqNbZ35sooiUMKqQQGn16jWsKThWz4gG2jNE6MQS ZpWvhpdCLicobzwHBuVyEQDMKoLiUGSgaY3Jeaq1Y3XJp02bTrsL9snsBBebUt8Kj+9XEl4k m8gJC5PIJmZAV3GgGXMiJTws76idYWJn9ZMbKc4e1gVTDU1JPmahJLalCP4afzSz3oVY2PAh vYULG6ox0DPtt6M68ps3G4ApJV1BQ4NETXowBpZbQXfhwe0bx0+YCIubOQ+bpk6dRp671/r1 68yJZchPOcF/npONKymJseL3Gn+SXVMqeDL8mqwxWX5KKCMxsaTSUyoqJfSTnbhDgo/TFBZG kvIJYwsnU4+zf40vyoBrZHo6znVJ0ttZB5Y6pAyBlg3BmsxYlgFn0daS6T091TGiIPtjvtM8 pK7xqccZbJn5JKlskzxdWALOMXWnW0bzl0auZCfS9Jn0DKRnIEe7E876+s4qtc4io86mkATn +RkyJEYYhjOpP1EUQuN3IqHkkosZZJo+P8QzkIP3eGd9K1QSWxf/zmHXOvrWW7bmGcn54n18 0FEDa7HCrX3+ed5bEKegv9m6MKPbAs6YPoPrwh4yoBbfifF0yJDDCmLbmJofNhmwQdrC2WVd /sa3DzHpf7CPlrMZL2Xbdhqn//TTTwe7c8xOpzcGSWOmF5462MuQC1Azlr3Qnj2aoa9xo4YM bsAuTI6YBO6EV4oFnJlUtGW3rl1eBLOMWSqDac/cQ+pHFgYG1WRfl+w6kjFI4yPj0OkGHywV pO/+vs9ADma8iGdi0xk8brAQbHt1Gx/xsCFDnh78tLBxDm7cAZEo5Jm5TBuNiTt2wt17MN1e TgXJMzmvubm279jBssdCPf+ZeTiNKRwaA8SRI5v7wWfylKmSJsGOuTDOWxzJPKZCljfH7nLo 8GEeYSbQ3Xt261b2LrbNKINDDBzzZsNcGwOMr6RMI4YNjwXv0Q8+19z7TnbpG+ZgxkOv0FLl ypWHHfEiBw4YwIErzaOTeZ/IU7VqFeikyBfUrBlJVbx4cRlQgI/gvzZu2sixK5vlX2+9Fe+1 bNni9zf/XoIGPi7/eCCkypk4YeL9997L7ydjUpfOnSQO4Em//fbbpUtp2iTKJxkJq1P/ASuT GdYRcJkERDxyNWrWBONgKBejoPOKFStyeERcFzOexpzCXTp37t2zl5Qt0Plc2AaZ1jk/aqyY UxnPuNHrUwUKBlAIoAmpFXLxQ7s3b9rMDqxSpUpbt2yRlgfWkRe7dKmSXNIA7zKIyP8FMMX3 ChIpb7E2OpHoVnJleaxs88TCgXqSk9WqVMVpoDAEY+sYnl+2dGnJ0oOWSAWV/8cBNNOi2Fk8 Y9p0OZdopFHeruPHuKrlUwqN9QBXEVUFOHUK0AMUAwBaqiwyMGwm05+PzgzkVMYLMoQjWDiJ FNHgVLBUgb4BxKLceBE8ql4E4GzcGD6LqQOhO1mhbNk5c2djHjpnzHivUB2rx4xH3EmJi9Pk gcM2sqqCwsAHSwoowSOAYuu4BwBrGXXCvcSqdI0DYVq3ar1s6VLgKeBdQa7u2L5dlBxaQthp U6P86j4ghe3btAnHVocA/JXzC8Y6zXgfHZYLT5qDGS+ghwkxsEOSqnSJkiG3PugwQL0DYGWM B7m7dPESMqpl8xYeWA5Glkk4SRfWrVP3tde22+5RQbUXgikAh2pKTI0fO44SmPeJJwCa2rRt K/BHviqRYJrhyZUrngvTh/F0G/FzhQoyTwtKCGhMEq91XIRAHjuBambZjhRqXjhpcN9rKSWZ A7E/bLBpxkszHvDTtddee8Wtt96KQMPyHD6X1T7EYEDpJaWVLBkKmdTq2LEjbbN71279+/WX MNOAYflBpaLkykuXCleV6hz1V6lUUeQBqcX0Iic09K3AH8hJqGKX4C6cIMEjeKRiA5C44FGY Z+zo0WvWrpXpmX1EgmqAr9mz59jgMZPA4LvR3XfdBbIklTpjZteu3aZOnRKCaOSulKFdRoOn nx7CCkqiijETmtCrZ69JEybojVjmV0gzXprxcgbjeU+AjIIjxYABXkbrwslTjPhEDd8A6HME vNyxg1gTSCLOUkESRkvbQtZOqHzmRJdjV1vEkLpD5E6IA1Aoz0n7QDGjYbkRJKql9ObYLAKI viqkJToOFWrs0BYtWoh7FZojHl24YOFCv8aZRU6wrEBy+mzdGoEYiTtgaE5C5wUZgTtu377D lvKjRnbp583BqqaXl0jj+PgMGGL4NXm8VIdbuCq5PGkTqCGLkE8AK2d12WVpn3ptfIvTSbJS 73jmsC8vVSLNEu/PDORsxnt/5ih9l/QMXPIZyMGMd56wzOxTFm9YMyK7L4eNaxCA7wRAy/KY voZ3ltRDPjtNnAk6Df0HFeCsKNN33WSee5CXnC4/9B3mYMbzbpYtWy6vUcI8iQUoOcj+/jQW GGoPFkfuvR6Fk3+gL9l4hNvZN77TKGBKhYTbpkaPGYO2wWVgYqK0lpkg7ezP66HUalQ55OWX N6uywJcYb1Zfj/JhZkOZAuLYKvOvvNMy5LxtsL1uFi39A525nH3zHMx4iKBZ0yZRfoTMj/JU IcW/g7h2+elPwJSFp4XknD51GmMMt4GkfdH5zEC7ZDoyY/ZOB3R7zxmiJlPmRMaSk6nZrDM2 mUnLhEwDh5y5zTu9I+W3UEU5yOHTci8TZcrkw7UYJeTL3JfCo6m5lfp0MppED5gZER9+4tnv 3r0HV6dEZkp/GKp8M+r1hV8Dj4Vj7scK5cpivDNHmHoHNdNHuC87kDXLD2pNhoLVOZv8P7jR 52zGU3VNcishycePvQ2DIv+U5Hxy4xQvXkzCPLZEpsXVa9ZESTgkxoyqdUcVt9XiYsEXcCAB GQKKQJfHjqmJB4epJDrz4yG5igUl7NoVYTJPnFAfWGQ6OSFHy062yrhouISqfnIlAlabJi5D o0TOZoPRj58UFla7izMd54SMmu7omKFVOjC5H6XE4pZg3pT1QGIyFxJlADeJjUeGwlWrVovp VoKPTz+OSY9YRfrAkOCAT9+v7iKdCd8GDKrjUAuJKVU6CZnzpE6RlcSA9+7Z7Xk5UdTc4TUJ 1SfNlXEaAyeK3oTnO3mQBfiNndJym65169dp76TBw52q1KM3hm+w1aefHhzVOr8Myhp/cOxz 4XfO2YwHrSIBifLWXTt3ARC55Za/cLUpaHjLLbeEBGFAm9Wj/MT1uRMgUVCpnLZ8dzhBklaV 2WSMlRcE/cFh+lUmr/vuuUeZO7Qr8xxwCWkg52yUDnDrVkWbpd9CjqNHjxoSZ/gy8T169ChX tpwkKMDZfHTWAv4JiLCyZctyl1euVNG9otSA+/Yjbn6IRQsXkFdr1z7fpGkT2VflIDEGGACZ nsmoqHH8oXzCl0n1JSFn+bJlIcsgUSdMGO8nydQsHIBplStXIb2hdv7yl7/ECQ5fhBZQh10e Md6RO+64Q+Yy2ZnuvfdeTPXs0iUywEoPY7TyC4HLSFgGOOrCjRvWgwpUr1ZdAb1Vq1YpQKmu rdybUVKTOnXAXC09JnbihPGm4p577sH55kHVctrs5bBJvnDy/+CufEfGy58/P8JN1TYutyk2 NimGZJImpmhTXG1y/vB3m0y5vgkjnAZvqZmVfuHCRSFXCroPBcf9BNglozMyIhlyP/jgnNmz nh48qG3r1nLOyeEhPzSwGFHTplWrXj16Eq0YMs9jjxFTZGZAqBBxvPa41LF0Q/37RlXCBeMp m4r96GalS5biMDR1SjHjH7FIdlM6DBMLU0ogG4l8hFguPEX4SUag4XFwEymsN6kyn3/hBWxg n+avx1RqPGR0pWRKOEsiEbkyqamjkC9PHntXEDlZUlaufE6dR8147WU3mjZlqjLikXq5b7+R h6TLBw7sl2aTDJ8xY6YM0PJhmgQ7OreQH0ViMnVhZROcOWM6AFDPnlFv1jWLVFrVvGDOzc54 NKCbbrrpiqpVqwL+XuaMR7ysWPEcCIsCvDRJ9U0RLoUQWIwWJKnrvLlzPYJ4BVlxwrMIsSPi qIING9SXT5LWhIvgXYQSYUiJruCtmzRuBEs5eOBAVYXJrihT6vLl7dq0AcvEWoIhZJgO2fIk DnJ56Pm1ba/Cdnbu2Im0UcnZmTgZbv0AZONFV80U89t0yfnpDFEmJ6SD9u3bcf1TFKFqMG3o DbmHxKwYT0QFvVcaNfEWBq9SsfNMMmQUw4m9Wf26Uf4yCq+MmrVq1yarqakGuWH9Biq3NOna k2x8/ThfAV05wmTgVrs43ItOThrj/HnPPEMaW18sBDLf1qsjT/spD+i83mbNmCFTU7euUW8k /JLFZ2S/vmAS/GhemJ3xFLumpFwhg2/RokUvc8aT2hUpSAlesVx52zDYMcv2kbeOUNuwnxgc ATgegUBApgwDTtLTGFRgo6mp2M+mS+o7mqS48pLFi8u3aeNmyS+YL7/U1IhVSnBKJjYr/ORT UgOKbn/iscfJKM1syeS9kkIzlCUI9nr64fBhQ/2VcJrEK1tabfG3jTBUAnCJVJz6sUwApilR 4BKiiXFFmrAKRNCu3YapK3FG3bp09atr6caGR+IRxX169ZZkNrw2m668efJs2fKyXK6ygHk0 WDn1ekg8GjV0uASb4pjIbUH0+EfPAZ0zsP8AS0OZ0qVkE/NVOQcrl9mZPWumNcjKMmTQYJEZ AjU8ZqMG9a1fJJ7UzoI8BF65pEXLlhL+Ofhoss3FP3V2xgscd0VAjl3mjCcv+nPLlrEcEHFY TpSd1OLibiz79jlq7lj7baLwGIrv1bM3/VBouaXdvmh4DKSOFu+2bUNx+qqVq7ZqFSGbyTGp pnUrSK9gwYKRyDp1Cn+iYDOO1iWTtSHs3iNKV96vbx85p7Foz+7dataoKREtD4fErOqJlyhW nJa4bes2iE28JOxdks98efJaDkaNGvXE4483btzIMCSEJPEwHouFyKahQ4fRgXfu3GV7ZgXB xpLwYlTWlyaNGotdAlUjOYkgkRlgop6XJJRJmtosV6xtWMECBUl+T6rAyNKlz9oysP2SY0aL c+gyZUqXkb1X2maZKsUZCi+kJ9u7UoNpBzQFYVDuiJNZj9q0aknM6g3oVLSUxzd7xi+TvI3i 5bYBuXiWeH96yM54xB2hd4WXdPPNN1svE9673KYYKdOR6E5WcTF1NnUkwPoNG3x1nkyzq0G1 dkchpSSDJFMe6cQJwOgXWeTi2CI2TFXv4t4OImL9RKa/3XvYF0kbPUdugxMnXCjVioOouDYi PfLWGzsjNKb5YZthtECpLIohyTnepvup0SF1vN5wkZa4RVJkmzSWHssERlq1ehWZaTCYnPSL IKbHjslFaYemE4MJedfd2rVUSrfWf1zL6Di9kYWGePdePDg902aS0SXq8ODBuKzfgWich9/y q0+cJ+aE/wkLJMPDa2Ud4WkwFXL1unVczTxqSWzqwSDdSD+GZ0rDjLH6CunwK65Oavq9P8T6 YbpLFsbzpq666ip/I8aTzJxp7rJlvGBbT/xRiVcqOWC0nD49Y2uXnAzaUXioxHCf5WSYlHM3 S9pkX7pwvs1bq1atK1aoGDaZqb2lKhFZ5jal2RkJocP55Eapw07tOXUkyeSkOvdSM9CkdpLl eVMHnDEJmR7CZE6yDObDxBLvz7NkIZuE1yLGw3+0TRj/8CYuN4l37gkK/rdIvr2/nyj38/Hj FHVxQ2SCeSNC3wXe9f6OMH23y2EGUhkvldEixvMRrHnfffflUMYLw34nDOR/a/ZjKGQiyoKa +n6P4b/1bOl+L9kMpDJeqmqZwXgIiKWFvSXHSbxLNkPpjtIz8F+YgYTxmFEEnYeqmj6nGc8p 9pYs0ehn3aikT6ZnID0D72kGbEmYMJPd3BmM5wvrlp8lin1PnaYbp2cgPQPnmAGyDlvhvdQ2 pyVeOEvuPfLII1xAmDA9m+kZSM/AxcwAbrKvo2GmyrqsqmbqDYDI2Dldk2a/i5n39LUf5RmA Z7jxxhs56pJ93bkkXvIblnMNZx9rJ6OLvR8P7Ed5HtPPnp6Bc89A7FuabadGZ7zyyiuFH2RR L8+L8ZJGPA0MnsQl9lXqPv1Jz0B6Bs46A5REbILr8N5ZpVwq4/1/9BckHFTJneYAAAAASUVO RK5CYII= --------------050609010701010907050601-- --------------080706080402090909000505-- From nobody Thu May 15 08:30:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5250C1A00A7; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oml1RQp-BlmS; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11FFF1A029B; Thu, 15 May 2014 08:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4FFTQuq001880; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:29:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.145] (p548932E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.50.231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 679C5139C; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:29:24 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5374D711.9060107@ifi.uzh.ch> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:29:22 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 421860561.943039-578d870b20f9a5e9e8dbabc13153ddf9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <512F2860-3B2C-49A6-93C0-B67E8EC78551@tzi.org> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> <5374D711.9060107@ifi.uzh.ch> To: Corinna Schmitt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/u75DGlb5th6wC8TVThpvcuQVJ0E Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Alan DeKok , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, The IESG , ace@ietf.org, Benoit Claise , Ludwig Seitz Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:30:04 -0000 On 15 May 2014, at 17:02, Corinna Schmitt wrote: > very small RFC 7228 has some more specific terminology here. We know that EAP/PANA can be made to work for network authentication in = single-domain networks built out of class-2 devices. (This is the SE2.0 scenario.) ACE is trying to do application layer authorization within networks that = include class-1 devices. A single-domain solution is most likely not sufficient from a problem = statement point of view. (And the multiple domains may be more complicated than the essentially = just federated eduroam-style multi-domain network.) So I think the jury is still out on the complexity issue. What became pretty clear in our recent ABFAB tutorial call is that this = is not a plug-and-play situation with the existing protocols that make = ABFAB work. Some development (and not just assembly) required. But the more important question really is whether the ABFAB model of = players and roles fits with what needs to be done in a typical = constrained-node network. For one, NAIs are a great answer, just not = necessarily to our questions. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From nobody Thu May 15 09:17:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEF61A02B8 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id teW5KBbvOhcq for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-4.cisco.com (mtv-iport-4.cisco.com [173.36.130.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B75491A008F for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 09:17:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2493; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1400170640; x=1401380240; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/F264G0GZ40qwIRSggqm0UuWTsnN7cGRLK41tahJN+g=; b=muPcnxaqNpBv2miZxqtNtpp3jIwxOrE96kaAP3RaxOieQz4/ORwbTAM9 g/Cf+kkqWqSQXzDb1UDoY8v7fTmtJVfuqc1P5e//HnojsIYzwiNrZ8XC9 6IWGBa1wmz+xyKPx2tdHU1TbkRUyQQGMLGfTYrRfWLplXYetzpOSr/Ulx A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag0FACPndFOrRDoI/2dsb2JhbABZgwZPvjqHOwGBERZ0giUBAQEEAQEBNTYKEQsYCRYPCQMCAQIBFTATBgIBAReIJQENshefAxeNbAoHAQJVFoQqAQOZUYE9hSyMK4NSgVIJFw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,1060,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="112348801" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 May 2014 16:17:19 +0000 Received: from [161.44.68.195] ([161.44.68.195]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4FGHITl022709 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 16:17:18 GMT Message-ID: <5374E88E.4060604@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 12:17:18 -0400 From: Paul Duffy Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ace@ietf.org References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/LBEW3-g4zoFHYxmUvLrvJHjjcWI Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: paduffy@cisco.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:17:28 -0000 Folks, This is the second inquiry re: the charter and the term "resource". Taken for granted by REST-heads, mysterious otherwise. The charter often uses the expression "constrained environments". Somewhere near the top define or reference "RESTful constrained environments", then use "RESTful constrained environments" throughout. On 5/14/2014 6:12 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ace-00-01: Block > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Reaction from the AAA-doctors. > > 1. > I haven't been following it in detail, but it does seem rather vague. > > ... > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for > authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to > resources in constrained environments. > ... > > What are "resources? It seems they are applications, but the charter > doesn't make that clear. Also, if the "constrained environments" are > using DTLS, they don't seem that constrained to me. > > It looks to be a slight variation on existing technologies. e.g. we > want X, Y and Z, but in situation B instead of A. So... we're going to > design something completely new. > > On the other hand, I'm happy to see people paying attention to > authentication and authorization. Too many protocols are designed to > solve a problem first, and second to add security. > > 2. > The Charter makes a number of assertions that are provably false, such as > that AAA protocols are inappropriate for constrained environments. AAA > protocols were deployed in the 1990s to support extremely limited NAS > devices and Internet hosts with tiny fractions of the power of today's > systems. Any device that can run IP can authenticate against a AAA > server. > > Let me include the AAA-doctors in the discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > . > From nobody Thu May 15 10:17:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8281A02F1; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:17:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xexxPRug4Ft4; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan17.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.45.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99EE51A02C1; Thu, 15 May 2014 10:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mailscan5.hi.local) by mailscan-g64.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WkzHj-0000Et-0B; Thu, 15 May 2014 18:17:35 +0100 Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan5.hi.local with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WkzHh-0001nu-9N; Thu, 15 May 2014 18:17:33 +0100 Received: from host86-147-47-201.range86-147.btcentralplus.com ([86.147.47.201] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1WkzHb-0000TH-CN; Thu, 15 May 2014 18:17:27 +0100 Message-ID: <5374F6F3.9050402@gridmerge.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:18:43 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan DeKok References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020404020609020108060707" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/7HixuUEc3nL5UbamFE4PY94lVN0 Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , The IESG , ace@ietf.org, Benoit Claise , Ludwig Seitz Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:47 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020404020609020108060707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a difference between existing working protocols "working just=20 fine" and whether they are optimized for constrained environments. TLS=20 is also a case in point - it "works just fine" in Class 1 constrained=20 nodes (RFC 7228) even with ephemeral ECDH and X.509 certificates. On=20 that basis, the charter is not excluding anything. I don't mind using the word "constrained" in the context of RFC 7228. Robert On 15/05/2014 3:36 PM, Alan DeKok wrote: > Robert Cragie wrote: >> First, the charter does not say that "AAA protocols are inappropriat= e >> for constrained environments". It says existing work was not optimized= >> for constrained environments, which is the case. > That all depends what you mean by "constrained". If you read it as > "small low-power, low-memory systems", then it's not true. AAA > protocols work there just fine. > > If by "constrained", you mean "a mesh of small devices all of whom > which to update resources on each other", then it is true. But it's a > very off definition of "constrained". > > I would suggest avoiding the word "constrained", and replacing it wi= th > something a bit more descriptive. > > Alan DeKok. > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --------------ms020404020609020108060707 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UE ChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGlj YXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC ggEBAJKEhFtLV5jUXi+LpOFAyKNTWF9mZfEyTvefMn1V0HhMVbdClOD5J3EHxcZppLkyxPFA GpDMJ1Zifxe1cWmu5SAb5MtjXmDKokH2auGj/7jfH0htZUOMKi4rYzh337EXrMLaggLW1DJq 1GdvIBOPXDX65VSAr9hxCh03CgJQU2yVHakQFLSZlVkSMf8JotJM3FLb3uJAAVtIaN3FSrTg 7SQfOq9xXwfjrL8UO7AlcWg99A/WF1hGFYE8aIuLgw9teiFX5jSw2zJ+40rhpVJyZCaRTqWS D//gsWD9Gm9oUZljjRqLpcxCm5t9ImPTqaD8zp6Q30QZ9FxbNboW86eb/8ECAwEAAaOCAUsw ggFHMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59MB0GA1UdDgQWBBR6E04AdFvG eGNkJ8Ev4qBbvHnFezAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNV HSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwWAYDVR0fBFEwTzBNoEugSYZHaHR0cDovL2NybC51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tL1VUTi1VU0VSRmlyc3QtQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRFbWFpbC5jcmwwdAYI KwYBBQUHAQEEaDBmMD0GCCsGAQUFBzAChjFodHRwOi8vY3J0LnVzZXJ0cnVzdC5jb20vVVRO QWRkVHJ1c3RDbGllbnRfQ0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1 c3QuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCF1r54V1VtM39EUv5C1QaoAQOAivsNsv1Kv/av QUn1G1rF0q0bc24+6SZ85kyYwTAo38v7QjyhJT4KddbQPTmGZtGhm7VNm2+vKGwdr+XqdFqo 2rHA8XV6L566k3nK/uKRHlZ0sviN0+BDchvtj/1gOSBH+4uvOmVIPJg9pSW/ve9g4EnlFsjr P0OD8ODuDcHTzTNfm9C9YGqzO/761Mk6PB/tm/+bSTO+Qik5g+4zaS6CnUVNqGnagBsePdIa XXxHmaWbCG0SmYbWXVcHG6cwvktJRLiQfsrReTjrtDP6oDpdJlieYVUYtCHVmdXgQ0BCML7q peeU0rD+83X5f27nMIIGLjCCBRagAwIBAgIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQUFADCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4G A1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENP TU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xMTA5 MDIwMDAwMDBaFw0xNDA5MDEyMzU5NTlaMIIBNzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxEDAOBgNVBBETB1dG NCA0V0ExFzAVBgNVBAgTDldlc3QgWW9ya3NoaXJlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlXYWtlZmllbGQxFDAS BgNVBAkTC0dyYW5nZSBNb29yMR8wHQYDVQQJExY4OSBHcmVlbmZpZWxkIENyZXNjZW50MRcw FQYDVQQKEw5HcmlkbWVyZ2UgTHRkLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrSXNzdWVkIHRocm91Z2ggR3JpZG1l cmdlIEx0ZC4gRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFp bDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUm9iZXJ0IENyYWdpZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbcm9iZXJ0LmNyYWdp ZUBncmlkbWVyZ2UuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEArcThqvLe WU1Q1ZJmnb+2UQSwOQKWok3A1Mwk582AdvwaAQyBFliPyJ0kXJqtwNBoZvk+3WJr0QA5ZRr+ J0x3sXVpcxadojP2HNzy1gsgDtIGG8ltoU4vmX1A8BTlOIUT+Pg8p/bSruxV0vz0CR8ho2hs R0Zi5vU+rQKNmbgufbkWhlQnMEYjknemscLQfw1YZz90ta67doNDujFy6+X6I06HpjudgMYx 8bdsNS5xVFFwuBA1eqNQra+xLzhCOeX9PPB/zK68qdNhrni3WPYG9EhSt4Dzk+xIz9hj7wrU ZIVXDTPsY8qbUSBVpwmzI5lCHPgzurH1OK7WwgpDSsl5pwIDAQABo4IB1TCCAdEwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUehNOAHRbxnhjZCfBL+KgW7x5xXswHQYDVR0OBBYEFBCOXNH+lDm8U9gy3b3bRvrx vKgrMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwME BggrBgEFBQcDAjBGBgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1o dHRwczovL3NlY3VyZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBXBgNVHR8EUDBOMEygSqBIhkZodHRwOi8v Y3JsLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbS9DT01PRE9DbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVt YWlsQ0EuY3JsMIGIBggrBgEFBQcBAQR8MHowUgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29t b2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5j cnQwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAmBgNVHREEHzAdgRty b2JlcnQuY3JhZ2llQGdyaWRtZXJnZS5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAD6b/O0LkPav kR4Znoqxg0Ad7M3duDm4uzfrlX4ecgq56Ccdwd+3Tayz7Ewej30woVMmTKkA/NKRaCd0wVM9 8seF/oZjXKO7o1SH27igRnGSWjCoWXsdwJGfZbYnvcIIhhsxJoCPNbeSR7C0PAFDKsP3xrJy MHMljIJsoRbZu/fnYNyFWh9OXf7fYJOGmKDKAhSabUGfhY7umvU9d/YTqo02Q6YzC7d4zPNG 1a75AuHSEchf6GdKqycG38I5y9jlDaYfXspoS3PlTNCIeZONbOSMZgftnNEVKq+SWytFqyG/ 8+dwpm/a12KMex5J8iHwaUKj++2O2rAFNjDDqXpeEYoxggQZMIIEFQIBATCBqDCBkzELMAkG A1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9y ZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQg QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIICRTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xNDA1MTUxNzE4NDNaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRoV5oIlieuRe1Fw8/AvPKOKX+OHzBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG5BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgaswgagwgZMxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMTkwNwYDVQQDEzBDT01PRE8gQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUg RW1haWwgQ0ECEFwxUNvELajLmHIeX9p072YwgbsGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGroIGoMIGTMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVu dCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhBcMVDbxC2oy5hyHl/adO9m MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAIhm/EEPyJKHeQB8U2Ry9HNpRtcc4u/5yYy3TqSR+IPKNymy Z+90xfdv3Z3t7TFL9uAXEUO/0lZgTNTLjJ3RjPkhUCKoJXuuhagf6EPJ8a3S+xmGwxerVnKv aE6W1PUlwc4zZpAVtjZYxWFJIwWMh0fI04Yag1kUq8Ho2UqRB9DR7gN3x8juqdK3fV4U5FV2 8+LhQHlWwtlNLjaeXxeVKTn5VHyFtNvND/QBkLVlUJLnI+tYtpGbZyMkzjeyaBz6YxqmTeZ/ BjovtmhaDJzLGnJgtBgHzWg4raFV1O4yINkNWi7IxC3p3XgoSWLltBMBhKbo2sVu1cVcFd/5 1+cUWJEAAAAAAAA= --------------ms020404020609020108060707-- From nobody Thu May 15 14:14:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969971A0124; Thu, 15 May 2014 14:14:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pbYRq5Pr8jOs; Thu, 15 May 2014 14:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 026C01A00E5; Thu, 15 May 2014 14:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEE79098; Thu, 15 May 2014 21:13:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 15 May 2014 22:13:17 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.33) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 15 May 2014 22:13:57 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.158]) by SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 16 May 2014 05:13:50 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Benoit Claise , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPb8GVGaM3bo0ulUeih4UWL9aVV5tCH/FQ Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:13:50 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.81.217] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/rpCuZXkiwaXZjT3O_r8c4ksDJ94 Cc: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:14:10 -0000 PldoYXQgYXJlICJyZXNvdXJjZXM/ICBJdCBzZWVtcyB0aGV5IGFyZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMsIGJ1 dCB0aGUgY2hhcnRlciBkb2Vzbid0IG1ha2UgdGhhdCBjbGVhci4NCg0KSSB0aGluayBJIGhhdmUg ZXhwbGFpbmVkIGluIGFub3RoZXIgdGhyZWFkLiBSZXNvdXJjZXMgYXJlIG5vdCBhcHBsaWNhdGlv bnMsIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVzb3VyY2UgY29uY2VwdCBpcyB0YWtlbiBmcm9tIEhUVFAgcHJvdG9jb2wu DQoNCkFib3V0IHRoZSAicmVzb3VyY2UiLCB3ZSBjYW4gdGFrZSB0aGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBmcm9t IFJGQzI2MTY6DQoNCiAgIHJlc291cmNlDQogICAgICBBIG5ldHdvcmsgZGF0YSBvYmplY3Qgb3Ig c2VydmljZSB0aGF0IGNhbiBiZSBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGJ5IGEgVVJJLA0KICAgICAgYXMgZGVmaW5l ZCBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDMuMi4gUmVzb3VyY2VzIG1heSBiZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gbXVsdGlwbGUN CiAgICAgIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9ucyAoZS5nLiBtdWx0aXBsZSBsYW5ndWFnZXMsIGRhdGEgZm9y bWF0cywgc2l6ZSwgYW5kDQogICAgICByZXNvbHV0aW9ucykgb3IgdmFyeSBpbiBvdGhlciB3YXlz Lg0KDQpGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGNhbiBiZSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZSBzZW5zb3JzIG9u IGEgZGF0YSBjb2xsZWN0aW9uIG5vZGUsIG9yIGEgbGlzdCBvZiBhbGFybXMgb24gYSBob21lIHNl Y3VyaXR5IGNvbnRyb2xsZXIuIFtSRkM2NjkwXQ0KDQpNYXliZSB3ZSBjYW4gYWRkIHR3byBleHBs YW5hdGlvbnM6IG9uZSBpcyB0aGF0IHJlc291cmNlcyBjYW4gYmUgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBieSBhIFVS SSwgdHdvIGlzIHRoYXQgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGFyZSBob3N0ZWQgb24gdGhlIHJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZl ci4NCg0KIkFjY2VzcyB0byBhIHJlc291cmNlIiBtZWFucyBHZXQsIFB1dCwgUG9zdCBhbmQgRGVs ZXRlIHRvIGEgcmVzb3VyY2UuDQoNCj4uLi4NCj5UaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3Jl IGFpbXMgdG8gcHJvZHVjZSBhIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYXV0aGVudGljYXRp b24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291 cmNlcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQo+Li4uDQoNClRoaXMgc2VudGVuY2Ug aGFzIGJlZW4gcmV2aXNlZCB0bzoNCg0KTkVXDQpUaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3Jl IGFpbXMgdG8gcHJvZHVjZSBhIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYXV0aGVudGljYXRp b24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIChHZXQsIFB1 dCwgUG9zdCwgRGVsZXRlKSB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBieSBhIFVSSSBhbmQgaG9z dGVkIG9uIGEgcmVzb3VyY2Ugc2VydmVyIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4NCkVO RA0KDQpIb3BlIGl0IGNsYXJpZmllcy4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcN Cg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEFjZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOo11MIxNcjVIDY6MTIN CsrVvP7IyzogVGhlIElFU0cNCrOty806IGFhYS1kb2N0b3JzQGlldGYub3JnOyBhY2VAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCtb3zOI6IFtBY2VdIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNl LTAwLTAxOiAod2l0aCBCTE9DSykNCg0KQmVub2l0IENsYWlzZSBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9s bG93aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCmNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDE6IEJsb2Nr DQoNCldoZW4gcmVzcG9uZGluZywgcGxlYXNlIGtlZXAgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgbGluZSBpbnRhY3Qg YW5kIHJlcGx5IHRvIGFsbCBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4gdGhlIFRvIGFuZCBD QyBsaW5lcy4gKEZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBjdXQgdGhpcyBpbnRyb2R1Y3RvcnkgcGFyYWdyYXBoLCBo b3dldmVyLikNCg0KDQoNClRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCwgYWxvbmcgd2l0aCBvdGhlciBiYWxsb3QgcG9z aXRpb25zLCBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgaGVyZToNCmh0dHA6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9k b2MvY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS8NCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkJMT0NLOg0KLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpSZWFjdGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBBQUEtZG9jdG9ycy4NCg0KMS4NCiBJIGhhdmVu J3QgYmVlbiBmb2xsb3dpbmcgaXQgaW4gZGV0YWlsLCBidXQgaXQgZG9lcyBzZWVtIHJhdGhlciB2 YWd1ZS4NCg0KLi4uDQpUaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3JlIGFpbXMgdG8gcHJvZHVj ZSBhIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6 YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBpbiBjb25zdHJh aW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQouLi4NCg0KICBXaGF0IGFyZSAicmVzb3VyY2VzPyAgSXQgc2Vl bXMgdGhleSBhcmUgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLCBidXQgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZG9lc24ndCBtYWtlIHRo YXQgY2xlYXIuICBBbHNvLCBpZiB0aGUgImNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cyIgYXJlIHVz aW5nIERUTFMsIHRoZXkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlbSB0aGF0IGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIHRvIG1lLg0KDQogIEl0 IGxvb2tzIHRvIGJlIGEgc2xpZ2h0IHZhcmlhdGlvbiBvbiBleGlzdGluZyB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMu ICBlLmcuIHdlIHdhbnQgWCwgWSBhbmQgWiwgYnV0IGluIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBCIGluc3RlYWQgb2Yg QS4gIFNvLi4uIHdlJ3JlIGdvaW5nIHRvIGRlc2lnbiBzb21ldGhpbmcgY29tcGxldGVseSBuZXcu DQoNCiAgT24gdGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQsIEknbSBoYXBweSB0byBzZWUgcGVvcGxlIHBheWluZyBh dHRlbnRpb24gdG8gYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24uICBUb28gbWFueSBw cm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIGRlc2lnbmVkIHRvIHNvbHZlIGEgcHJvYmxlbSBmaXJzdCwgYW5kIHNlY29u ZCB0byBhZGQgc2VjdXJpdHkuDQoNCjIuIA0KVGhlIENoYXJ0ZXIgbWFrZXMgYSBudW1iZXIgb2Yg YXNzZXJ0aW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZSBwcm92YWJseSBmYWxzZSwgc3VjaCBhcyB0aGF0IEFBQSBwcm90 b2NvbHMgYXJlIGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQUFB IHByb3RvY29scyB3ZXJlIGRlcGxveWVkIGluIHRoZSAxOTkwcyB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGV4dHJlbWVs eSBsaW1pdGVkIE5BUyBkZXZpY2VzIGFuZCBJbnRlcm5ldCBob3N0cyB3aXRoIHRpbnkgZnJhY3Rp b25zIG9mIHRoZSBwb3dlciBvZiB0b2RheSdzIHN5c3RlbXMuICBBbnkgZGV2aWNlIHRoYXQgY2Fu IHJ1biBJUCBjYW4gYXV0aGVudGljYXRlIGFnYWluc3QgYSBBQUEgc2VydmVyLg0KDQpMZXQgbWUg aW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgQUFBLWRvY3RvcnMgaW4gdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24NCg0KDQoNCg0KX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCkFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9h Y2UNCg== From nobody Fri May 16 12:52:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71CD41A00EA; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:31:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BCmZsFgSyx5o; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc2-s22.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s22.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D488E1A015F; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU181-W26 ([65.55.111.71]) by blu0-omc2-s22.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 16 May 2014 12:31:29 -0700 X-TMN: [LP0syKfHRwNNksS4DKF/Gf/xtXAXpPPL] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6158e9b9-1a91-4597-8f5d-5163b31e2c31_" From: Bernard Aboba To: Alan DeKok Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 12:31:29 -0700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <53747A43.7070404@sics.se>, <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2014 19:31:29.0977 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FCE5290:01CF713D] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/pdqwBhIm_wplT5Kx-XW8v4rV6T0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 May 2014 12:52:48 -0700 Cc: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] [AAA-DOCTORS] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 19:31:39 -0000 --_6158e9b9-1a91-4597-8f5d-5163b31e2c31_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. >=20 > Speaking from the RADIUS side=2C a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A > simple server is more=2C but not a lot more. They can each do 1000's of > packets per second on commodity hardware with a naive implementation=2C a= t > low latencies. [BA] I have run global networks with RADIUS servers based on hardware a fra= ction of the power of today's mobile handsets=2C authenticating devices so = constrained that no modern operating system would run on them (e.g. 100 Mhz= PCs running Windows 3.1 with 4 MB RAM). The devices don't even need to su= pport cryptographic computation - RADIUS was designed to support cleartext = authentication (e.g. PAP). =20 In the years since RADIUS was initially deployed=2C we have heard complaint= s about insufficient support for modern cryptography=2C lack of features=2C= inability to support TCP (the initial design was UDP-only)=2C etc. At no = point have I ever heard a complaint about RADIUS being "too heavy weight". = =20 > I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling. Just a clear descrip= tion of the problem being solved. [BA] Amen. RFC 2865 is already so minimal that it is hard to imagine what= could be removed. However=2C it would definitely be worthwhile to clarify= the problem description - as it stands it is unacceptably vague. = = --_6158e9b9-1a91-4597-8f5d-5163b31e2c31_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=3B Adaptation to *wha= t*? That's the part I'm missing.
>=3B
>=3B Speaking from the = RADIUS side=2C a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A
>=3B simple server is= more=2C but not a lot more. They can each do 1000's of
>=3B packets = per second on commodity hardware with a naive implementation=2C at
>= =3B low latencies.

[BA] I have run global networks= with RADIUS servers based on hardware a fraction of the power of today's m= obile handsets=2C authenticating devices so constrained that no modern oper= ating system would run on them (e.g. 100 Mhz PCs running Windows 3.1 with 4= MB RAM).  =3BThe devices don't even need to support cryptographic comp= utation - RADIUS was designed to support cleartext authentication (e.g. PAP= ).  =3B

In the years since RADIUS was initiall= y deployed=2C we have heard complaints about insufficient support for moder= n cryptography=2C lack of features=2C inability to support TCP (the initial= design was UDP-only)=2C etc.  =3BAt no point have I ever heard a compl= aint about RADIUS being "too heavy weight".  =3B  =3B
>=3B I don't see a need for much in the way of profiling. Jus= t a clear =3Bdescription of the problem being solved.

[BA= ] Amen.  =3B RFC 2865 is already so minimal that it is hard to imagine = what could be removed.  =3BHowever=2C it would definitely be worthwhile= to clarify the problem description - as it stands it is unacceptably vague= . =3B
= --_6158e9b9-1a91-4597-8f5d-5163b31e2c31_-- From nobody Fri May 16 12:52:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDA81A02FC; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oUr1mo-aCvlu; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x230.google.com (mail-la0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 519251A015E; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id mc6so2317098lab.35 for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+T148mAQIZ+7wBZLmX5u2ZyxabrK4CmKPXXSxrtcMQY=; b=j1U/VPVu8l/ES6ecJynC94IDZ0adgZ/qUAM5a3VH/xMH85l94Y+edkug0GH9pJQNTi xJCeobwsYG7cP5LuReiKqKEgpEFdtWClhAcY7Iuy0NUWMxDWaeU9tJWSzF2TkGQAwsWt 4NVdf1AGtlGxeLL12cFgPmSBtzpimkDXCsJMDspHqReUBT4cjywsKO4IADFCZwcLOE9m cUVUy9nHsMbsIEhJaDgOrTWHlWCD15pZj4lWxILgIyViD8JziBKEJ32AyVKyEbNMKsxb izmNca5cPQyIHKiuHZW2nU1F5ooFMyDcAzVmD4QEZYQ6NeVnu3fqXplxbYF2LbzcZt73 Saxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.155.105 with SMTP id vv9mr12658995lbb.29.1400269595333; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.70.165 with HTTP; Fri, 16 May 2014 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <512F2860-3B2C-49A6-93C0-B67E8EC78551@tzi.org> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53747A43.7070404@sics.se> <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <21105.1400161079@sandelman.ca> <5374D076.7070005@gridmerge.com> <5374D0FB.9020107@deployingradius.com> <5374D711.9060107@ifi.uzh.ch> <512F2860-3B2C-49A6-93C0-B67E8EC78551@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:35 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011832a2d1d95704f989ab76 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/mmKeMFAXqqBM9b77jDExr1lzVU8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 May 2014 12:52:48 -0700 Cc: Corinna Schmitt , aaa-doctors@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Alan DeKok , robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" , Benoit Claise , Ludwig Seitz Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 19:46:48 -0000 --089e011832a2d1d95704f989ab76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carsten, On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 15 May 2014, at 17:02, Corinna Schmitt wrote: > > > very small > > RFC 7228 has some more specific terminology here. > > We know that EAP/PANA can be made to work for network authentication in > single-domain networks built out of class-2 devices. > (This is the SE2.0 scenario.) > > ACE is trying to do application layer authorization within networks that > include class-1 devices. > A single-domain solution is most likely not sufficient from a problem > statement point of view. > (And the multiple domains may be more complicated than the essentially > just federated eduroam-style multi-domain network.) > > So I think the jury is still out on the complexity issue. > > Multi-domain issue can be resolved, I think. A good example is Fixed Mobile Convergence which involves more than one operator domains and EAP is used there, in one it is carried in RADIUS in another in Diameter. And it works. Regards, Behcet > What became pretty clear in our recent ABFAB tutorial call is that this i= s > not a plug-and-play situation with the existing protocols that make ABFAB > work. Some development (and not just assembly) required. > > But the more important question really is whether the ABFAB model of > players and roles fits with what needs to be done in a typical > constrained-node network. For one, NAIs are a great answer, just not > necessarily to our questions. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --089e011832a2d1d95704f989ab76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Carsten,


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.or= g> wrote:
On 15 May 2014, at 17:02, Corinna Schmitt <schmitt@ifi.uzh.ch> wrote:

> very small

RFC 7228 has some more specific terminology here.

We know that EAP/PANA can be made to work for network authentication in sin= gle-domain networks built out of class-2 devices.
(This is the SE2.0 scenario.)

ACE is trying to do application layer authorization within networks that in= clude class-1 devices.
A single-domain solution is most likely not sufficient from a problem state= ment point of view.
(And the multiple domains may be more complicated than the essentially just= federated eduroam-style multi-domain network.)

So I think the jury is still out on the complexity issue.

=C2=A0
Multi-domain issue can be resolved, = I think. A good example is Fixed Mobile Convergence which involves more tha= n one operator domains and EAP is used there, in one it is carried in RADIU= S in another in Diameter.
=C2=A0
And it works.
=C2=A0
Regards,
=C2=A0
Behcet=C2=A0
What became pretty clear in our recent ABFAB tutorial call is that this is = not a plug-and-play situation with the existing protocols that make ABFAB w= ork. =C2=A0Some development (and not just assembly) required.

But the more important question really is whether the ABFAB model of player= s and roles fits with what needs to be done in a typical constrained-node n= etwork. =C2=A0For one, NAIs are a great answer, just not necessarily to our= questions.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--089e011832a2d1d95704f989ab76-- From nobody Sat May 17 00:19:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D671A029E; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwzVSeGvyy9I; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E7041A0139; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f790e6d000001067-b1-53770d655803 Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 35.CC.04199.56D07735; Sat, 17 May 2014 09:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.215]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sat, 17 May 2014 09:19:01 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: "ace@ietf.org" , The IESG , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: ACE problem description Thread-Index: AQHPcaBGUWhcWiNkckCydaX115UJNA== Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 07:19:00 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <19EDCF35F6FF8A4FB5F781D62D4D0AF5@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW4qb3mwwYvz6hYrDn1hs/j+rYfZ YsaficwOzB5LlvxkCmCM4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mr4O3U6Y8F+/oojLxpYGxh383QxcnJICJhI bJtxmwXCFpO4cG89G4gtJHCUUeJXS2AXIxeQvYRR4uivNrAiNgFXiQMP3jGB2CICORILP01j BrGFBRQk3nf/YISIq0pMWX6LGcLWk1h2+RqYzQIUn/BkDtgcXgELiXXnzoLZjECLv59aAzaT WUBc4taT+UwQBwlILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfK4gtCjTz3XGYGiWJFdsvMUL06kncmDqFDcK2ljhz 7hQrhK0tsWzha2aIvYISJ2c+YZnAKDoLybpZSNpnIWmfhaR9FpL2BYysqxhFi1OLk3LTjYz0 Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjEC4+fglt8GOxhfPnc8xCjAwajEw6sQVBYsxJpYVlyZe4hRmoNFSZz3 9q7SYCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUovii0pzU4kOMTBycUg2MYgIMGVn/2c/NYrzvsnX5fGmWp3zxfabt upfjND9Pi91XeX/XbO2uz0ePp751P7/O8YSXs1FoosBme+OCA8+l2r/PZj4nV7ksKJhnk01K xM2HX4+3rJBWfbOoZef6/Z/2Fr7dWl16gtWXd+O8E7q6WxZ9ZOn1PCetYhKuGPGr5svilSJX 7u7XVWIpzkg01GIuKk4EADbd0LuAAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/IZAXdiidhvtvqB0hHvXgnaO0bJo Subject: [Ace] ACE problem description X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 07:19:15 -0000 Hello all The need for a more detailed problem description for ACE has been voiced on several occasions. As a first step in this direction we have submitted a draft, see below. In section 4 we list a set of candidate assumptions and requirements. The purpose of making this list is not to stipulate "the unique problem description", but to stimulate an aligned discussion on what assumptions and requirements the protocols in the scope of ACE should be based on. This version of the draft is not going into the transport protocol requirements since this is still ongoing discussion. This draft is one of the inputs to the ACE pre-WG meeting in Stockholm, June 2-3. I will give an update of that in a separate mail shortly. G=F6ran On 17/05/14 09:06, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A new version of I-D, draft-seitz-ace-problem-description-00.txt >has been successfully submitted by Goeran Selander and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-seitz-ace-problem-description >Revision: 00 >Title: Problem Description for Authorization in Constrained Environments >Document date: 2014-05-16 >Group: Individual Submission >Pages: 14 >URL: =20 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-seitz-ace-problem-description-00 >.txt >Status: =20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-seitz-ace-problem-description/ >Htmlized: =20 >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seitz-ace-problem-description-00 > > >Abstract: > We present a problem description for authentication and authorization > in constrained-node networks, i.e. networks which contain some > devices with severe constraints on power, memory, and processing > resources. > > =20 > =20 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Sat May 17 00:31:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F94D1A0139 for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:31:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1DveD3r_xTES for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6C41A01AE for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 00:31:34 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79a86d0000010e9-95-5377104c53f6 Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D5.F8.04329.C4017735; Sat, 17 May 2014 09:31:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.215]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sat, 17 May 2014 09:31:24 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= To: "ace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting Stockholm June 2-3 Thread-Index: AQHPcaIBCMqHJL4Yh0C0jHpiVLAKMg== Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 07:31:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <3B88CD701ECBB24EBC93E9977CB55D50@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6PQHmwwdGXBhbfv/UwOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr41rjN7aCX0IVd39eYG9g3MrfxcjJISFgIrH54nxWCFtM4sK9 9WwgtpDAUUaJB1PTuxi5gOwljBJNe2+zgyTYBFwlDjx4x9TFyMEhIqAocf1RIkhYWMBCYvGS XWAlIgKWElsnr2WCsPUkXq9aDjafRUBV4sbpPrAaXqD63TO2sUPsspC4PbGNBcTmBOqdt2Ai WJwR6J7vp9aAzWEWEJe49WQ+E8SdAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/gc2XxRo17vjMDVKEiu2X2KE6NWT uDF1ChuEbS2x7/kGZghbW2LZwtfMEPcISpyc+YRlAqP4LCTrZiFpn4WkfRaS9llI2hcwsq5i FC1OLS7OTTcy0kstykwuLs7P08tLLdnECIysg1t+W+1gPPjc8RCjAAejEg+vQlBZsBBrYllx Ze4hRmkOFiVx3tu7SoOFBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosPMTJxcEo1MLJv//ShZi7L7ln3Q/a5 timkVJ9Z51LEwy9i379afcavyxme19a+PxRs3XN/f+23O6XdH5t/L/g551VKZ9HLd3ce+Ts9 r2kPnP95rUSWxsfoSeciYliZtY993LHD8k7NQs6y+A0HdQ+KM6w3SK9pSZQ3SI9uVXi7osX8 z+pHhXHWm7O+37Zeo6jEUpyRaKjFXFScCAABxG2JjQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/LXLwGG0_EgtahgggcB6a8AkrHPI Subject: Re: [Ace] ACE pre-WG meeting Stockholm June 2-3 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 07:31:36 -0000 Update on the ACE pre-WG meeting and remote participation: 7 persons have confirmed they will participate, one tentative, and there are empty chairs for 7 more! The topic for the meeting is problem description and solution components for ACE. The agenda will be formed around the inputs. Currently there is one input [1], other inputs are anticipated, and even more are welcome. If you are unable to physically attend the meeting but want to make an input (text or slides), we can set up a phone conference to discuss that. This will be a particular timeslot in the agenda (open for anyone to phone in) and we try to schedule it conveniently for the presenter=B9s time zone. The rest of the meeting will not support remote participation. Unless you have already done so, please notify me if you plan to make an input. Thanks G=F6ran [1]=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-seitz-ace-problem-description-00. txt On 05/05/14 15:16, "G=F6ran Selander" wrote: >Hi > >Thanks for showing interest in the ACE pre-WG meeting. It seems a two-day >meeting June 2-3 is best to get as much parties as possible represented. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Time: Monday 2nd June 09.00 - Tuesday 3rd June 17.00 >Location: Kista, Stockholm, Sweden (Adress: TBD, meeting room on Ericsson >premises) >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >If you have not filled in the Doodle but want to join, please let me know. > > >If you did fill in the Doodle and confirmed interest for June 2-3, and now >(or later) know that you will NOT participate, please let me know. > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Practical details for travel arrangements >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Airports: Arlanda is the main airport and convenient for accessing Kista >and downtown Stockholm. Bromma is close to both Kista and downtown >Stockholm. Skavsta is 1.5 hours south of the city and further 0.5 hours to >Kista. > >Lodging: downtown Stockholm has some beautiful spots while Kista has none, >so if possible try to find some place downtown. Social dinner (at own >expense) in the evening on the 2nd will be downtown. I can come back with >some details on hotels if someone requests. > > >Welcome! > >G=F6ran > > > >_______________________________________________ >Ace mailing list >Ace@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Sat May 17 06:51:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20AE1A0096; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:51:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RKGeg1lvLfV6; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22a.google.com (mail-lb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4F8B1A008A; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id w7so2777846lbi.15 for ; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sCAvcMYLSgoQ6oqIr0/+rYyMyVXPwkHLXV/NT/OFWqw=; b=uFWUo/dKzGXTdXtzfS4cfTFzeqRno6DFDQGwa2/I1BXyJ9b0C/If/MI14UL6MxsTZj 3ktrn05c/IYe2vL4T5KsOjE2/sDQFuE+dkQCBPQaXDGUwABHnXfy3Ie0hxXBF9w/c3bq xnL9GMd3kJuoT7os59YK4QBOfCczT0kzUkMZCIxXt05dSLr8G9Ik+t/N1o1qMC9jLx6P TxS/d5UztQwr7Q6IfYAwZajNNPDjarB6Oo1Guqlnt/vJ8/J0acJWzP6JqA1dbVaOj/0C +aQzzqIIdrBWgMEcMDRahSHC6/O+kywpa/0Uj9F4aIyxpfVQccxD3qN1X24PnHkOfwi+ 3ZcA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.116.6 with SMTP id js6mr9111127lab.3.1400334656777; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.26.147 with HTTP; Sat, 17 May 2014 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 09:50:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: Likepeng Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/QKC945HDwaEqtCjWwIyW8hd1gwg Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 13:51:13 -0000 Likepeng, Sorry for the top-post. Thank you for the definitions and better descriptions for 'resource'. I think Paul got it right in his comment, the term resource is well-known for REST-heads as he called them. Is it worth having that reference or do folks like the definitions as provided below without that additional reference? Some of the feedback on the charter is that it would be helpful to have it be clearer and more concise. The discussion has very productive, with many angles/questions being explored. Would it be helpful to see what the revision looks like and to see if we are getting closer? Thanks! On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Likepeng wrote: >>What are "resources? It seems they are applications, but the charter doe= sn't make that clear. > > I think I have explained in another thread. Resources are not application= s, and the resource concept is taken from HTTP protocol. > > About the "resource", we can take the definition from RFC2616: > > resource > A network data object or service that can be identified by a URI, > as defined in section 3.2. Resources may be available in multiple > representations (e.g. multiple languages, data formats, size, and > resolutions) or vary in other ways. > > For example, resources can be temperature sensors on a data collection no= de, or a list of alarms on a home security controller. [RFC6690] > > Maybe we can add two explanations: one is that resources can be identifie= d by a URI, two is that resources are hosted on the resource server. > > "Access to a resource" means Get, Put, Post and Delete to a resource. > >>... >>This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for = authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to resources i= n constrained environments. >>... > > This sentence has been revised to: > > NEW > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for = authentication and authorization to enable authorized access (Get, Put, Pos= t, Delete) to resources identified by a URI and hosted on a resource server= in constrained environments. > END > > Hope it clarifies. > > Thanks, > Kind Regards > Kepeng > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ace [mailto:ace-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3= =E8=A1=A8 Benoit Claise > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 = 6:12 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: The IESG > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: aaa-doctors@ietf.org; ace@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01= : (with BLOCK) > > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ace-00-01: Block > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all ema= il addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introd= uctory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ace/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Reaction from the AAA-doctors. > > 1. > I haven't been following it in detail, but it does seem rather vague. > > ... > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for = authentication and authorization to enable authorized access to resources i= n constrained environments. > ... > > What are "resources? It seems they are applications, but the charter d= oesn't make that clear. Also, if the "constrained environments" are using = DTLS, they don't seem that constrained to me. > > It looks to be a slight variation on existing technologies. e.g. we wa= nt X, Y and Z, but in situation B instead of A. So... we're going to desig= n something completely new. > > On the other hand, I'm happy to see people paying attention to authenti= cation and authorization. Too many protocols are designed to solve a probl= em first, and second to add security. > > 2. > The Charter makes a number of assertions that are provably false, such as= that AAA protocols are inappropriate for constrained environments. AAA pro= tocols were deployed in the 1990s to support extremely limited NAS devices = and Internet hosts with tiny fractions of the power of today's systems. An= y device that can run IP can authenticate against a AAA server. > > Let me include the AAA-doctors in the discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Sun May 18 13:52:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80FE1A02D3 for ; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.637 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.637 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XiVTV-66CtvD for ; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D16521A02D8 for ; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGW97153; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:17 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.33) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:19 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 04:52:14 +0800 From: Likepeng To: "paduffy@cisco.com" , "ace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPb8GVGaM3bo0ulUeih4UWL9aVV5tBTKkAgAV767A= Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:13 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38957@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5374E88E.4060604@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5374E88E.4060604@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/tcZw0DYa5JETjwrprAIVAiLOCQQ Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:35 -0000 PlNvbWV3aGVyZSBuZWFyIHRoZSB0b3AgZGVmaW5lIG9yIHJlZmVyZW5jZSAiUkVTVGZ1bCBjb25z dHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMiLCB0aGVuIHVzZSAiUkVTVGZ1bCBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZp cm9ubWVudHMiIHRocm91Z2hvdXQuDQoNCkkgbm90aWNlIHRoYXQgIkNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIFJFU1Rm dWwgRW52aXJvbm1lbnRzIiBpcyB1c2VkIGFzIHRoZSBncm91cCBuYW1lIGZvciBDb1JFLg0KDQpp biBDb0FQIHByb3RvY29sLCB3ZSB1c3VhbGx5IHVzZSAiY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQi Lg0KDQpUbyBhdm9pZCBjb25mdXNpb24sIEkgcHJvcG9zZSB0byBrZWVwIHRoZSAiY29uc3RyYWlu ZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQiLCBidXQgYWRkIG9uZSBzZW50ZW5jZSBuZWFyIHRoZSB0b3AgdG8gc2F5 Og0KUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQgZm9yIHN1Y2ggY29uc3RyYWluZWQg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVuZw0KDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0t LS0NCreivP7IyzogQWNlIFttYWlsdG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gUGF1bCBE dWZmeQ0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTTE6jXUwjE2yNUgMDoxNw0KytW8/sjLOiBhY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Ctb3zOI6IFJlOiBbQWNlXSBCZW5vaXQgQ2xhaXNlJ3MgQmxvY2sgb24gY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFj ZS0wMC0wMTogKHdpdGggQkxPQ0spDQoNCkZvbGtzLA0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSBzZWNvbmQgaW5x dWlyeSByZTogdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgYW5kIHRoZSB0ZXJtICJyZXNvdXJjZSIuICANClRha2VuIGZv ciBncmFudGVkIGJ5IFJFU1QtaGVhZHMsIG15c3RlcmlvdXMgb3RoZXJ3aXNlLg0KDQpUaGUgY2hh cnRlciBvZnRlbiB1c2VzIHRoZSBleHByZXNzaW9uICJjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMi Lg0KDQpTb21ld2hlcmUgbmVhciB0aGUgdG9wIGRlZmluZSAgb3IgcmVmZXJlbmNlICJSRVNUZnVs IGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cyIsIHRoZW4gdXNlICJSRVNUZnVsIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVk IGVudmlyb25tZW50cyIgdGhyb3VnaG91dC4NCg0KDQpPbiA1LzE0LzIwMTQgNjoxMiBQTSwgQmVu b2l0IENsYWlzZSB3cm90ZToNCj4gQmVub2l0IENsYWlzZSBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93 aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCj4gY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0wMC0wMTogQmxvY2sN Cj4NCj4gV2hlbiByZXNwb25kaW5nLCBwbGVhc2Uga2VlcCB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBsaW5lIGludGFj dCBhbmQgcmVwbHkgdG8gYWxsDQo+IGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGUgVG8g YW5kIENDIGxpbmVzLiAoRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGN1dCB0aGlzDQo+IGludHJvZHVjdG9yeSBwYXJh Z3JhcGgsIGhvd2V2ZXIuKQ0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPiBUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQsIGFsb25nIHdpdGggb3Ro ZXIgYmFsbG90IHBvc2l0aW9ucywgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGhlcmU6DQo+IGh0dHA6Ly9kYXRhdHJh Y2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS8NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLQ0KPiBCTE9DSzoNCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPg0KPiBSZWFjdGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBB QUEtZG9jdG9ycy4NCj4NCj4gMS4NCj4gICBJIGhhdmVuJ3QgYmVlbiBmb2xsb3dpbmcgaXQgaW4g ZGV0YWlsLCBidXQgaXQgZG9lcyBzZWVtIHJhdGhlciB2YWd1ZS4NCj4NCj4gLi4uDQo+IFRoaXMg d29ya2luZyBncm91cCB0aGVyZWZvcmUgYWltcyB0byBwcm9kdWNlIGEgc3RhbmRhcmRpemVkIHNv bHV0aW9uIGZvcg0KPiBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiB0byBlbmFibGUg YXV0aG9yaXplZCBhY2Nlc3MgdG8NCj4gcmVzb3VyY2VzIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25t ZW50cy4NCj4gLi4uDQo+DQo+ICAgIFdoYXQgYXJlICJyZXNvdXJjZXM/ICBJdCBzZWVtcyB0aGV5 IGFyZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMsIGJ1dCB0aGUgY2hhcnRlcg0KPiBkb2Vzbid0IG1ha2UgdGhhdCBj bGVhci4gIEFsc28sIGlmIHRoZSAiY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzIiBhcmUNCj4gdXNp bmcgRFRMUywgdGhleSBkb24ndCBzZWVtIHRoYXQgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgdG8gbWUuDQo+DQo+ICAg IEl0IGxvb2tzIHRvIGJlIGEgc2xpZ2h0IHZhcmlhdGlvbiBvbiBleGlzdGluZyB0ZWNobm9sb2dp ZXMuICBlLmcuIHdlDQo+IHdhbnQgWCwgWSBhbmQgWiwgYnV0IGluIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBCIGluc3Rl YWQgb2YgQS4gIFNvLi4uIHdlJ3JlIGdvaW5nIHRvDQo+IGRlc2lnbiBzb21ldGhpbmcgY29tcGxl dGVseSBuZXcuDQo+DQo+ICAgIE9uIHRoZSBvdGhlciBoYW5kLCBJJ20gaGFwcHkgdG8gc2VlIHBl b3BsZSBwYXlpbmcgYXR0ZW50aW9uIHRvDQo+IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0 aW9uLiAgVG9vIG1hbnkgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGFyZSBkZXNpZ25lZCB0bw0KPiBzb2x2ZSBhIHByb2Js ZW0gZmlyc3QsIGFuZCBzZWNvbmQgdG8gYWRkIHNlY3VyaXR5Lg0KPg0KPiAyLg0KPiBUaGUgQ2hh cnRlciBtYWtlcyBhIG51bWJlciBvZiBhc3NlcnRpb25zIHRoYXQgYXJlIHByb3ZhYmx5IGZhbHNl LCBzdWNoIGFzDQo+IHRoYXQgQUFBIHByb3RvY29scyBhcmUgaW5hcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBmb3IgY29u c3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBBQUENCj4gcHJvdG9jb2xzIHdlcmUgZGVwbG95ZWQgaW4g dGhlIDE5OTBzIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgZXh0cmVtZWx5IGxpbWl0ZWQgTkFTDQo+IGRldmljZXMgYW5k IEludGVybmV0IGhvc3RzIHdpdGggdGlueSBmcmFjdGlvbnMgb2YgdGhlIHBvd2VyIG9mIHRvZGF5 J3MNCj4gc3lzdGVtcy4gIEFueSBkZXZpY2UgdGhhdCBjYW4gcnVuIElQIGNhbiBhdXRoZW50aWNh dGUgYWdhaW5zdCBhIEFBQQ0KPiBzZXJ2ZXIuDQo+DQo+IExldCBtZSBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSBBQUEt ZG9jdG9ycyBpbiB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBBY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IEFj ZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0K PiAuDQo+DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQpBY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpBY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQo= From nobody Sun May 18 13:52:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6185C1A02DC; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QRXkIGwl5P1B; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35F421A01F6; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEG80680; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:42 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:44 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 04:52:39 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Benoit Claise , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPb8GVGaM3bo0ulUeih4UWL9aVV5tG05cA Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:39 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38965@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/XkZ37WCezsll8M5oQCajAE0xHAw Cc: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:54 -0000 PlRoZSBDaGFydGVyIG1ha2VzIGEgbnVtYmVyIG9mIGFzc2VydGlvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmUgcHJvdmFi bHkgZmFsc2UsIHN1Y2ggYXMgdGhhdCBBQUEgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGFyZSBpbmFwcHJvcHJpYXRlIGZv ciBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQoNCkluIGZhY3QsIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIGRvZXMg bm90IHNheSB0aGF0LiBCdXQgdG8gYXZvaWQgY29uZnVzaW9uLCBsZXQncyByZW1vdmUgQUFBIHBy b3RvY29sIGZyb20gdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIuDQoNCkluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyLCB3ZSBtZW50aW9uZWQg dGhhdCB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIHJldXNlIGV4aXN0aW5nIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3Jp emF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aGVyZSBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIHRvIGJ1aWxkIHRoZSBjb25zdHJhaW5l ZC1lbnZpcm9ubWVudCBzb2x1dGlvbi4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcN Cg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEFjZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOo11MIxNcjVIDY6MTIN CsrVvP7IyzogVGhlIElFU0cNCrOty806IGFhYS1kb2N0b3JzQGlldGYub3JnOyBhY2VAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCtb3zOI6IFtBY2VdIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNl LTAwLTAxOiAod2l0aCBCTE9DSykNCg0KQmVub2l0IENsYWlzZSBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9s bG93aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCmNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDE6IEJsb2Nr DQoNCldoZW4gcmVzcG9uZGluZywgcGxlYXNlIGtlZXAgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgbGluZSBpbnRhY3Qg YW5kIHJlcGx5IHRvIGFsbCBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4gdGhlIFRvIGFuZCBD QyBsaW5lcy4gKEZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBjdXQgdGhpcyBpbnRyb2R1Y3RvcnkgcGFyYWdyYXBoLCBo b3dldmVyLg0KDQpUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQsIGFsb25nIHdpdGggb3RoZXIgYmFsbG90IHBvc2l0aW9u cywgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGhlcmU6DQpodHRwOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2No YXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UvDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCkJMT0NLOg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0K DQpSZWFjdGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBBQUEtZG9jdG9ycy4NCg0KMS4NCiBJIGhhdmVuJ3QgYmVlbiBm b2xsb3dpbmcgaXQgaW4gZGV0YWlsLCBidXQgaXQgZG9lcyBzZWVtIHJhdGhlciB2YWd1ZS4NCg0K Li4uDQpUaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3JlIGFpbXMgdG8gcHJvZHVjZSBhIHN0YW5k YXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8g ZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZp cm9ubWVudHMuDQouLi4NCg0KICBXaGF0IGFyZSAicmVzb3VyY2VzPyAgSXQgc2VlbXMgdGhleSBh cmUgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLCBidXQgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZG9lc24ndCBtYWtlIHRoYXQgY2xlYXIu ICBBbHNvLCBpZiB0aGUgImNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cyIgYXJlIHVzaW5nIERUTFMs IHRoZXkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlbSB0aGF0IGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIHRvIG1lLg0KDQogIEl0IGxvb2tzIHRv IGJlIGEgc2xpZ2h0IHZhcmlhdGlvbiBvbiBleGlzdGluZyB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMuICBlLmcuIHdl IHdhbnQgWCwgWSBhbmQgWiwgYnV0IGluIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBCIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgQS4gIFNvLi4u IHdlJ3JlIGdvaW5nIHRvIGRlc2lnbiBzb21ldGhpbmcgY29tcGxldGVseSBuZXcuDQoNCiAgT24g dGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQsIEknbSBoYXBweSB0byBzZWUgcGVvcGxlIHBheWluZyBhdHRlbnRpb24g dG8gYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24uICBUb28gbWFueSBwcm90b2NvbHMg YXJlIGRlc2lnbmVkIHRvIHNvbHZlIGEgcHJvYmxlbSBmaXJzdCwgYW5kIHNlY29uZCB0byBhZGQg c2VjdXJpdHkuDQoNCjIuIA0KVGhlIENoYXJ0ZXIgbWFrZXMgYSBudW1iZXIgb2YgYXNzZXJ0aW9u cyB0aGF0IGFyZSBwcm92YWJseSBmYWxzZSwgc3VjaCBhcyB0aGF0IEFBQSBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJl IGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQUFBIHByb3RvY29s cyB3ZXJlIGRlcGxveWVkIGluIHRoZSAxOTkwcyB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGV4dHJlbWVseSBsaW1pdGVk IE5BUyBkZXZpY2VzIGFuZCBJbnRlcm5ldCBob3N0cyB3aXRoIHRpbnkgZnJhY3Rpb25zIG9mIHRo ZSBwb3dlciBvZiB0b2RheSdzIHN5c3RlbXMuICBBbnkgZGV2aWNlIHRoYXQgY2FuIHJ1biBJUCBj YW4gYXV0aGVudGljYXRlIGFnYWluc3QgYSBBQUEgc2VydmVyLg0KDQpMZXQgbWUgaW5jbHVkZSB0 aGUgQUFBLWRvY3RvcnMgaW4gdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24NCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KQWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KQWNlQGlldGYu b3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0K From nobody Sun May 18 13:53:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7992D1A02E7; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikgDUIvSpLEb; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 966141A02E3; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEG80686; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:52 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.36) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:54 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 04:52:48 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Kathleen Moriarty Thread-Topic: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPb8GVGaM3bo0ulUeih4UWL9aVV5tCH/FQgAIofACAAnXnoA== Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:47 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/lqPP4VSmgs-PIFLsCM788cciwfo Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:53:00 -0000 SGkgS2F0aGxlZW4gYW5kIGFsbCwNCg0KPklzIGl0IHdvcnRoIGhhdmluZyB0aGF0IHJlZmVyZW5j ZSBvciBkbyBmb2xrcyBsaWtlIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhcyBwcm92aWRlZCBiZWxvdyB3aXRo b3V0IHRoYXQgYWRkaXRpb25hbCByZWZlcmVuY2U/DQoNCkFzIGZhciBhcyBJIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQg UGF1bCdzIGNvbW1lbnRzLCBpZiB3ZSBhZGRlZCBSRVNUZnVsIHJlbGF0ZWQgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlv biwgcGVvcGxlIGNhbiB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoZSBjb250ZXh0IG9mIHJlc291cmNlcy4gV2UgY2Fu IGNlcnRhaW5seSBhZGQgYSByZWZlcmVuY2UgaWYgaXQgaXMgcHJlZmVycmVkLg0KDQo+V291bGQg aXQgYmUgaGVscGZ1bCB0byBzZWUgd2hhdCB0aGUgcmV2aXNpb24gbG9va3MgbGlrZSBhbmQgdG8g c2VlIGlmIHdlIGFyZSBnZXR0aW5nIGNsb3Nlcj8NCg0KSSBwcm92aWRlZCBhIG5ldyByZXZpc2lv biBiZWxvdy4gSG9wZSB3ZSBhcmUgZ2V0dGluZyBjbG9zZXIuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCktpbmQgUmVn YXJkcw0KS2VwZW5nDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpDaGFydGVyIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2Ut MDAtMDINCkF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGZvciBDb25zdHJhaW5lZA0K RW52aXJvbm1lbnQgKEFDRSkNCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5IGRldmVsb3BlZCBwcm90 b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZA0KZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBuZXR3b3Jr IG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQVSwgbWVtb3J5IGFuZCBwb3dlci4gDQpSRVNUIGFyY2hp dGVjdHVyZSBpcyB3aWRlbHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igc3VjaCBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMu DQpJdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBvYnNlcnZlZCB0aGF0IEludGVybmV0IHByb3RvY29scyBjYW4gYmUgYXBw bGllZCB0byB0aGVzZQ0KY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCBvZnRlbiBvbmx5IHJlcXVp cmluZyBtaW5vciB0d2Vha2luZyBhbmQNCnByb2ZpbGluZy4gSW4gb3RoZXIgY2FzZXMsIG5ldyBw cm90b2NvbHMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGRlZmluZWQgdG8gYWRkcmVzcw0KdGhlIHNwZWNpZmljIHJlcXVp cmVtZW50cyBvZiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEFuIGV4YW1wbGUgb2YNCnN1Y2gg YSBwcm90b2NvbCBpcyB0aGUgQ29uc3RyYWluZWQgQXBwbGljYXRpb24gUHJvdG9jb2wgKENvQVAp Lg0KDQpBcyBpbiBvdGhlciBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMsIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3Jp emF0aW9uIHF1ZXN0aW9ucw0KYWxzbyBhcmlzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMu IEZvciBleGFtcGxlLCBhIGRvb3IgbG9jayBoYXMgdG8NCmF1dGhvcml6ZSB0aGUgcGVyc29uIHNl ZWtpbmcgYWNjZXNzIHVzaW5nIGEgImRpZ2l0YWwga2V5Ii4gV2hlcmUgaXMgdGhlDQphdXRob3Jp emF0aW9uIHBvbGljeSBzdG9yZWQ/IEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoZSBkaWdpdGFsIGtleSBjb21tdW5pY2F0 ZSB3aXRoDQp0aGUgbG9jaz8gRG9lcyB0aGUgbG9jayBpbnRlcmFjdCB3aXRoIGFuIGF1dGhvcml6 YXRpb24gc2VydmVyIHRvIG9idGFpbg0KYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbj8gSG93IGNh biBhY2Nlc3MgYmUgdGVtcG9yYXJpbHkgZ3JhbnRlZCB0bw0Kb3RoZXIgcGVyc29ucz8gSG93IGNh biBhY2Nlc3MgYmUgcmV2b2tlZD8gVGhlc2UgdHlwZXMgb2YgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGhhdmUNCmJlZW4g YW5zd2VyZWQgYnkgZXhpc3RpbmcgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgY2FzZXMgb3V0c2lkZSBjb25z dHJhaW5lZA0KZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCBob3dldmVyIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50 cywgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBhbmQNCmRpZmZlcmVudCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgcG9zZSBjaGFsbGVuZ2Vz IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHZhcmlvdXMgc2VjdXJpdHkNCnByb3RvY29scy4gSW4gcGFydGljdWxh ciwgdGhlIG5lZWQgYXJpc2VzIGZvciBhIGR5bmFtaWMgYW5kIGZpbmUgZ3JhaW5lZA0KYWNjZXNz IGNvbnRyb2wgbWVjaGFuaXNtLCB3aGVyZSBjbGllbnRzIGFuZC9vciByZXNvdXJjZSBzZXJ2ZXJz IGFyZQ0KY29uc3RyYWluZWQuDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyBhIGxvbmcgaGlzdG9yeSBpbiBkZXZl bG9waW5nIHRocmVlLXBhcnR5IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZA0KYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBwcm90 b2NvbHMgZm9yIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gRXhhbXBsZXMgaW5jbHVkZQ0KS2Vy YmVyb3MsIHRoZSBQdWJsaWMgS2V5IEluZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlIChQS0kpLCBhbmQgdGhlIFdlYg0K QXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBQcm90b2NvbCAoT0F1dGgpLiBBbGwgdGhlc2UgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGVuam95 IHdpZGVzcHJlYWQNCmRlcGxveW1lbnQgb24gdGhlIEludGVybmV0LiBBbHRob3VnaCB0aGV5IGFs bCBhaW0gdG8gc29sdmUgYSBzaW1pbGFyDQpnb2FsLCBhdCBhbiBhYnN0cmFjdCBsZXZlbCwgdGhl eSBvZmZlciBxdWl0ZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgZnVuY3Rpb25zIGFuZA0KdXRpbGl6ZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQg bWVzc2FnZSBleGNoYW5nZXMuIFRoZXNlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIHJlc3VsdCBmcm9tIHRoZQ0KbWFp biBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHVzZSBjYXNlcyB0aGV5IHdlcmUgZGVzaWduZWQgZm9yIHJlc3BlY3RpdmVs eS4NCg0KUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhlIHN1 aXRhYmlsaXR5IG9mIGV4aXN0aW5nDQp3b3JrIGFzIGEgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVk IGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gVGhlc2UgcHJvdG9jb2xzLA0KaG93ZXZlciwgd2VyZSBub3Qgb3B0aW1p emVkIGZvciBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEFkZGl0aW9uYWwNCnJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cyB0aGF0IG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgdGFrZW4gaW50byBhY2NvdW50IGFyZSB0aGUgbGFjayBvZiBhDQpz dWl0YWJsZSB1c2VyLWludGVyZmFjZSBhbmQgdGhlIGluYWJpbGl0eSBvZiBlbWJlZGRlZCBkZXZp Y2VzIHRvIGNvbnRhY3QNCmFuIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gc2VydmVyIGluIHJlYWwtdGltZSB3aXRo IGV2ZXJ5IHJlc291cmNlIGFjY2VzcyByZXF1ZXN0DQpkdWUgdG8gaW50ZXJtaXR0ZW50IGNvbm5l Y3Rpdml0eSwgZXRjLg0KDQpUaGlzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgdGhlcmVmb3JlIGFpbXMgdG8gcHJv ZHVjZSBhIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3INCmF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRo b3JpemF0aW9uIHRvIGVuYWJsZSBhdXRob3JpemVkIGFjY2VzcyAoR0VULCBQVVQsIFBPU1QsIA0K REVMRVRFKSB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBieSBhIFVSSSBhbmQgaG9zdGVkIG9uIGEg cmVzb3VyY2UNCnNlcnZlciBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEFzIGEgc3RhcnRp bmcgcG9pbnQsIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nDQpncm91cCB3aWxsIGFzc3VtZSB0aGF0IGFjY2VzcyB0byBy ZXNvdXJjZXMgYXQgYSByZXNvdXJjZSBzZXJ2ZXIgYnkgYQ0KY2xpZW50IGRldmljZSB0YWtlcyBw bGFjZSB1c2luZyBDb0FQIGFuZCBpcyBwcm90ZWN0ZWQgYnkgRFRMUy4gQm90aA0KcmVzb3VyY2Ug c2VydmVyIGFuZCBjbGllbnQgbWF5IGJlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkLiBUaGlzIGFjY2VzcyB3aWxsIGJl DQptZWRpYXRlZCBieSBhbiBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHNlcnZlciwgd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IGNvbnNp ZGVyZWQgdG8gYmUNCmNvbnN0cmFpbmVkLg0KDQpFeGlzdGluZyBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg YXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2lsbCBiZSB1c2VkIHdoZXJlDQphcHBsaWNhYmxlIHRv IGJ1aWxkIHRoZSBjb25zdHJhaW5lZC1lbnZpcm9ubWVudCBzb2x1dGlvbi4gVGhpcyByZXF1aXJl cw0KcmVsZXZhbnQgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgdG8gYmUgcmV2aWV3ZWQgZm9yIHN1aXRhYmlsaXR5 LCBzZWxlY3RpbmcgYQ0Kc3Vic2V0IG9mIHRoZW0gYW5kIHJlc3RyaWN0aW5nIHRoZSBvcHRpb25z IHdpdGhpbiBlYWNoIG9mIHRoZQ0Kc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMuIFNvbWUgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSwg aG93ZXZlciwgbWF5IG5vdCBiZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4NCmV4aXN0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scywgaW4g d2hpY2ggY2FzZSB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gbWF5IGFsc28gaW52b2x2ZSBuZXcNCnByb3RvY29sIHdv cmsuIExldmVyYWdpbmcgZXhpc3Rpbmcgd29yayBtZWFucyB0aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBiZW5l Zml0cw0KZnJvbSBhdmFpbGFibGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgYW5hbHlzaXMsIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLCBh bmQgZGVwbG95bWVudA0KZXhwZXJpZW5jZS4gTW9yZW92ZXIsIGEgc3RhbmRhcmRpemVkIHNvbHV0 aW9uIGZvciBmZWRlcmF0ZWQNCmF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHdpbGwg aGVscCB0byBzdGltdWxhdGUgdGhlIGRlcGxveW1lbnQNCm9mIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGRldmljZXMg dGhhdCBwcm92aWRlIGluY3JlYXNlZCBzZWN1cml0eS4NCg0KT25jZSBwcm9ncmVzcyBpbiBpZGVu dGlmeWluZyBzdWl0YWJsZSBjYW5kaWRhdGUgc29sdXRpb25zIGhhcyBiZWVuIG1hZGUsDQp0aGUg d29ya2luZyBncm91cCB3aWxsIHZlcmlmeSB3aGV0aGVyIHRoZSBzYW1lIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgYXJl IGFsc28NCmFwcGxpY2FibGUgYmV5b25kIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgQ29BUCBhbmQgRFRMUywgd2hpY2gg YXJlIHRoZSB0d28gbWFpbg0KcHJvdG9jb2xzIHRoZSBncm91cCB3aWxsIGZvY3VzIG9uIGZvciBh Y2Nlc3MgdG8gcmVzb3VyY2VzLiBJbg0KcGFydGljdWxhciwgdGhlIGFiaWxpdHkgdG8gdXNlIHRo ZSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgc29sdXRpb24gb3ZlciBIVFRQIGFuZCBUTFMNCndpbGwgYmUgaW52ZXN0aWdh dGVkLiBUaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCB3aWxsIG5vdCB3b3JrIG9uIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9u IA0KcHJvdG9jb2xzIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgcmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBhbmQg b3RoZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIA0KYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjaywgdW50aWwgdGhl IHdvcmsgb24gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUA0Kd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgaXMgY29tcGxldGVkLiBG dXJ0aGVybW9yZSwgdG8gZ3VhcmFudGVlIHNtb290aCB0cmFuc2l0aW9uLCB0aGUNCmludGVncmF0 aW9uIHdpdGggZXhpc3RpbmcgZGVwbG95bWVudHMgd2lsbCBiZSBzdHVkaWVkLCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFy bHkNCmNvbmNlcm5pbmcgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBwcm90b2NvbCB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBwcm94aWVzLg0K DQpUaGlzIHdvcmsgZG9lcyBub3QgbWFrZSB0aGUgYXNzdW1wdGlvbiB0aGF0IHRoZSBwYXJ0eSBv ZmZlcmluZw0KYXBwbGljYXRpb24gbGF5ZXIgc2VydmljZXMgaXMgYWx3YXlzIHRoZSBzYW1lIHBh cnR5IG9mZmVyaW5nIG5ldHdvcmsNCmFjY2VzcyBzZXJ2aWNlcy4NCg0KVGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3Jv dXAgaGFzIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGFza3M6DQoNCjEpIFByb2R1Y2UgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBy ZXF1aXJlbWVudHMNCg0KMikgSWRlbnRpZnkgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRp b24gbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBzdWl0YWJsZSBmb3INCnJlc291cmNlIGFjY2VzcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5l ZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQoNCk1pbGVzdG9uZXM6DQoNCkp1bCAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCAiVXNlIGNh c2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiIGFzIGEgV0cgaXRlbS4NCkRlYyAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCAiQXV0 aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gU29sdXRpb24iIGFzIGEgV0cgaXRlbS4NCkp1 bCAyMDE1IFN1Ym1pdCAiVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIHRo ZSBJRVNHIGZvcg0KcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYW4gSW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMuDQpKdWwgMjAx NiBTdWJtaXQgIkF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFNvbHV0aW9uIg0Kc3Bl Y2lmaWNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYSBQcm9wb3NlZCBTdGFu ZGFyZC4NCg0KUHJvcG9zZWQgTWlsZXN0b25lcyANCk5vIG1pbGVzdG9uZXMgZm9yIGNoYXJ0ZXIg Zm91bmQuDQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogS2F0aGxlZW4gTW9y aWFydHkgW21haWx0bzprYXRobGVlbi5tb3JpYXJ0eS5pZXRmQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0gDQrlj5HpgIHm l7bpl7Q6IDIwMTTlubQ15pyIMTfml6UgMjE6NTENCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogTGlrZXBlbmcNCuaKhOmA gTogQmVub2l0IENsYWlzZTsgVGhlIElFU0c7IGFhYS1kb2N0b3JzQGlldGYub3JnOyBhY2VAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCuS4u+mimDogUmU6IFtBY2VdIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVy LWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAxOiAod2l0aCBCTE9DSykNCg0KTGlrZXBlbmcsDQoNClNvcnJ5IGZvciB0 aGUgdG9wLXBvc3QuDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIGRlZmluaXRpb25zIGFuZCBiZXR0ZXIg ZGVzY3JpcHRpb25zIGZvciAncmVzb3VyY2UnLg0KSSB0aGluayBQYXVsIGdvdCBpdCByaWdodCBp biBoaXMgY29tbWVudCwgdGhlIHRlcm0gcmVzb3VyY2UgaXMgd2VsbC1rbm93biBmb3IgUkVTVC1o ZWFkcyBhcyBoZSBjYWxsZWQgdGhlbS4gIElzIGl0IHdvcnRoIGhhdmluZyB0aGF0IHJlZmVyZW5j ZSBvciBkbyBmb2xrcyBsaWtlIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhcyBwcm92aWRlZCBiZWxvdyB3aXRo b3V0IHRoYXQgYWRkaXRpb25hbCByZWZlcmVuY2U/DQoNClNvbWUgb2YgdGhlIGZlZWRiYWNrIG9u IHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgaGVscGZ1bCB0byBoYXZlIGl0IGJlIGNs ZWFyZXIgYW5kIG1vcmUgY29uY2lzZS4gIFRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGhhcyB2ZXJ5DQpwcm9kdWN0 aXZlLCB3aXRoIG1hbnkgYW5nbGVzL3F1ZXN0aW9ucyBiZWluZyBleHBsb3JlZC4gICAgV291bGQg aXQgYmUNCmhlbHBmdWwgdG8gc2VlIHdoYXQgdGhlIHJldmlzaW9uIGxvb2tzIGxpa2UgYW5kIHRv IHNlZSBpZiB3ZSBhcmUgZ2V0dGluZyBjbG9zZXI/DQoNClRoYW5rcyENCg== From nobody Sun May 18 13:53:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827631A02E3; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DOqDXstvMV3Y; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD6F01A02E6; Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGW97173; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:54 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.34) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 18 May 2014 21:52:56 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 04:52:22 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Jari Arkko , Barry Leiba Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/Jpf0GKHR8wU26ZeDnJQgKn5s+xVqQ//+MCQCAAJ+lwP//hPqAgAAHyoCAAAHKAIACTtAAgAX/vlA= Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:52:21 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/EZaWo_ntZw-7jV6Co2yd06HW9f0 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:53:02 -0000 PkkgZG8gYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgcGxhbi4gDQpHbGFkIHRvIHNlZSB3ZSBhcmUgb24gdGhlIHNh bWUgcGFnZSBmb3IgdGhlIHBsYW4uDQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCB0aGlzIHJld29yZGluZz8NClRoZSB3 b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgbm90IHdvcmsgb24gb3RoZXIgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xz IHdpdGggdGhlaXIgcmVsYXRlZCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBhbmQgb3RoZXIgcHJvdG9j b2xzIGF0IG90aGVyIGxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2ssIHVudGlsIHRoZSB3b3JrIG9uIENvQVAg YW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgaXMgY29tcGxldGVkLg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBp bXBvcnRhbnQgbWVzc2FnZSB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGNvbnZleSBpcywgd2Ugd2lsbCBub3Qgd29yayBv biBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBmb3IgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJvdG9j b2xzIGxpa2UgT01BIERNLCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGxpa2UgU01TIC9VU1NEIGV0Yy4N Cg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEFj ZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEphcmkgQXJra28NCreiy83Ksbzk OiAyMDE0xOo11MIxNcjVIDE2OjM3DQrK1bz+yMs6IEJhcnJ5IExlaWJhDQqzrcvNOiBhZHJpYW5A b2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrIEZhcnJlbDsgVGhlIElFU0c7IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUmU6IFtB Y2VdIEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAwOiAod2l0 aCBCTE9DSykNCg0KDQo+IEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCwgYnV0IEkgdGhpbmsgaXQncyBhbHdheXMgYmVl biB0aGUgaW50ZW50IGZvciB0aGlzIHdvcmsgdG8gDQo+IHN0YXJ0IGF0IHRoZSBBcHAgbGF5ZXIg b25seSwgYW5kIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgb3RoZXIgDQo+IHByb3RvY29scyBhbmQg bGF5ZXJzIGxhdGVyLg0KDQpXZWxsLCB3aGF0IEkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGxvb2sgYXQgd2FzIG9uIHRo ZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgbGF5ZXIgKGUuZy4sIGRhdGEgb2JqZWN0IHNlY3VyaXR5KSwgbm90IG9u IG90aGVyIGxheWVycy4NCg0KPiBJIHdvdWxkIHdhbnQgdXMgdG8gZ2V0IHRoaXMgd29yayBkb25l DQo+IGZpcnN0IGluIGFueSBjYXNlLCBhbmQgdGhlbiByZS1jaGFydGVyIHRvIGdvIGZ1cnRoZXIu DQo+IA0KPiBJZiB5b3UgZGlzYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGF0IHBsYW4sIGxldCdzIHRhbGsgYWJvdXQg aXQgYW5kIHNlZSB3aGVyZSBpdCBicmluZ3MgdXMuDQoNCkkgZG8gYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgcGxh biwgYnV0IG15IHBvaW50IHdhcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBjaGFydGVyIHZlcnNpb24gd2Fz IG9uIHRoYXQgcGxhbiBhcyB3ZWxsIHdoaWxlIHN0aWxsIHJlY29nbmlzaW5nIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNh YmlsaXR5IG9mIHRoZSByZXN1bHRzIHRvIG90aGVyIHRoaW5ncy4gTXkgb3BpbmlvbiBpcyB0aGF0 IHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyB2ZXJzaW9uIHdhcyBiZXR0ZXIsIGFuZCB3b3VsZCBwcm9iYWJseSBnZXQg bW9yZSBvZiB1cyBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHdvcmtpbmcgb24gdGhlIHRvcGljLg0KDQpKYXJpDQoN Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpBY2UgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0DQpBY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vYWNlDQo= From nobody Sun May 18 14:27:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34F61A02E1; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:27:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.111 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CetZl0sCZRw6; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04B3A1A02E0; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4ILR1uQ015279; Sun, 18 May 2014 22:27:01 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4ILQxtu015268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 18 May 2014 22:27:00 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Likepeng'" , "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Barry Leiba'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 22:26:58 +0100 Message-ID: <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFYqhR1P2teX39lTaQQdQZOocGTfQJD/FAUAbL06YcCrV/OiQGxEc4PAtIeeVMCT3chOQIZbsMlArFji7ObolxgUA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1017-20702.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--29.353-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--29.353-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 6lay9u8oTUMDJrf2+hNOhZCB65RjRY3sghehpAfYfg+hp/BDk6hAwNnf JrUSEbFDlCvwn7kWok8NGTMo3ycFs1w05rfMVTlfM0pZiLPQITo2O5Eh+45TR83J+h/wWLV9wua niM9QXy2C9FpVQ3HWgAco2QM0zf/2aTkWqXcVprsCCldih9lEqiGZtiDVlw6eW+jwVKpqvlLbpg SYwR0v6hyMD60f+AE5IU1x0v1EjV21GEy290CHW29BwOBTwhNHTnFsT79fjaCodvDxY8dblHdVF hvBL/uONg/Y8h/F1zI7wmDDHZeBE5eHpCXvaaghE0Q83A2vD+vvJY9pBzgg1G3D6f6IpbLILdBZ VYc2NjKWubKLKw8CD1OvAgm8RoymQKbqzl//zc3wI5EzJETTVJJOcXMQc4jBEd+K6O5Nt53zb5k mgp405bfqHaErmu92fyYDewMOrQDFNZytR+M1BN0H8LFZNFG7JQhrLH5KSJ0= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/f1EqvFUJsn8oJ-PJHBggD9i2sA8 Cc: 'The IESG' , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 21:27:11 -0000 Sorry to be a pain, but that is a definite "no" from me. That says... The WG will (or can) work on security for routing protocols once it has = finished with CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. How about... The working group must complete the CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS and = be rechartered before taking on work on other application protocols with = their related transport protocols. Work on other protocols at other layers in = the stack is out of scope. Thanks, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Ace [mailto:ace-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Likepeng > Sent: 18 May 2014 21:52 > To: Jari Arkko; Barry Leiba > Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel; The IESG; ace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: = (with BLOCK) >=20 > >I do agree with the plan. > Glad to see we are on the same page for the plan. >=20 > How about this rewording? > The working group will not work on other application protocols with = their related > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, = until the > work on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS is completed. >=20 > I think the important message we want to convey is, we will not work = on > authentication and authorization for application protocols like OMA = DM, > transport protocols like SMS /USSD etc. >=20 > Kind Regards > Kepeng >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ace [mailto:ace-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = Jari Arkko > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA5=D4=C215=C8=D5 16:37 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Barry Leiba > =B3=AD=CB=CD: adrian@olddog.co.uk Farrel; The IESG; ace@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on = charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) >=20 >=20 > > I understand, but I think it's always been the intent for this work = to > > start at the App layer only, and to consider looking at other > > protocols and layers later. >=20 > Well, what I wanted to look at was on the applications layer (e.g., = data object > security), not on other layers. >=20 > > I would want us to get this work done > > first in any case, and then re-charter to go further. > > > > If you disagree with that plan, let's talk about it and see where it = brings us. >=20 > I do agree with the plan, but my point was that the original charter = version was on > that plan as well while still recognising the applicability of the = results to other > things. My opinion is that the previous version was better, and would = probably > get more of us interested in working on the topic. >=20 > Jari >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Sun May 18 14:46:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABCD1A02E2; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rtyLD5bhjS9c; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F104E1A01E7; Sun, 18 May 2014 14:46:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4ILk6tL010428; Sun, 18 May 2014 23:46:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.145] (p54891DEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.29.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35F931CBA; Sun, 18 May 2014 23:46:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 23:46:03 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 422142363.401464-47f8bbb43f155ccbda38c5a103e7b5bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/dzqE4OZwsnSCiPOu4m8A2ZqezXg Cc: Barry Leiba , Jari Arkko , The IESG , Likepeng , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 21:46:33 -0000 On 18 May 2014, at 23:26, Adrian Farrel wrote: > The working group must complete the CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS = and be > rechartered before taking on work on other application protocols with = their > related transport protocols. Work on other protocols at other layers = in the > stack is out of scope. That sounds like a plan to eventually conquer those other application = protocols. Is this really what we tell people we are planning to do? If addressing application protocols outside the REST turns out to be = useful, we can recharter at any time without seemingly making such a = promise now. Gr=A8=B9=810=898e, Carsten (Should have called it ACRE, not ACE=A1=AD) From nobody Sun May 18 20:02:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E281A0281; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17qavok0o38E; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x230.google.com (mail-qc0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B072D1A0265; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id r5so8093546qcx.35 for ; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ajcdbpyw4QVcFPziissh2Yi+1zWIOKiwxtP4NkRzvyE=; b=minySdtrXgdySIK2TveiUQlpKbvCASc8Iw31+3h3atkeHHQYxiO+f+a9CsjmyYjaV9 IFRyLHZnukEh9wDLZib56eCsOkk/JXHIjCwyLUw2d+P4ZScgQBv/VNUFg2DxcnZ8PU8S mW8AcnA+vQ0iKFN0Uaqle4nzMcheRVTaUzKk+lq1LCnPvz4oR2/2wkUXJMSjBMPA/ScO RaQ2i8N85QL/h5QL/P/hVxVEaUx4c70iqSfOxy/UD++tD/9b4nZglOJfVuaOWsblMKCA VRLXYwGwLOe7R5+NONQ+ek0gWtpXJOTOsDjx89RAGZ2Q/Du+xVYdBZqP+jiqXvyo86BF 36vg== X-Received: by 10.140.107.198 with SMTP id h64mr43277438qgf.30.1400468535338; Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (209-6-114-252.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com. [209.6.114.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h78sm10043075qgd.10.2014.05.18.20.02.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 18 May 2014 20:02:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Kathleen Moriarty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kathleen Moriarty X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D167) In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 23:02:14 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5DD0213F-5174-4BBD-845D-D965408B332F@gmail.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/97W2QNJs-SW-IGaCWBdSLhvFq68 Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 03:02:20 -0000 Hi Likepeng, I'm fine with or without it, it just depends if people find it helpful. The= term was obvious to me because of other projects using REST and my familiar= ity. It's up to the group if it is helpful or not. Thanks, Kathleen=20 Sent from my iPhone > On May 18, 2014, at 4:52 PM, Likepeng wrote: >=20 > Hi Kathleen and all, >=20 >> Is it worth having that reference or do folks like the definitions as pro= vided below without that additional reference? >=20 > As far as I understand Paul's comments, if we added RESTful related clarif= ication, people can understand the context of resources. We can certainly ad= d a reference if it is preferred. >=20 >> Would it be helpful to see what the revision looks like and to see if we a= re getting closer? >=20 > I provided a new revision below. Hope we are getting closer. >=20 > Thanks, > Kind Regards > Kepeng >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------- >=20 > Charter charter-ietf-ace-00-02 > Authentication and Authorization for Constrained > Environment (ACE) >=20 > The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained > environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power.=20= > REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments. > It has been observed that Internet protocols can be applied to these > constrained environments, often only requiring minor tweaking and > profiling. In other cases, new protocols have been defined to address > the specific requirements of constrained environments. An example of > such a protocol is the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). >=20 > As in other environments, authentication and authorization questions > also arise in constrained environments. For example, a door lock has to > authorize the person seeking access using a "digital key". Where is the > authorization policy stored? How does the digital key communicate with > the lock? Does the lock interact with an authorization server to obtain > authorization information? How can access be temporarily granted to > other persons? How can access be revoked? These types of questions have > been answered by existing protocols for use cases outside constrained > environments, however in constrained environments, additional and > different requirements pose challenges for the use of various security > protocols. In particular, the need arises for a dynamic and fine grained > access control mechanism, where clients and/or resource servers are > constrained. >=20 > The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and > authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include > Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and the Web > Authorization Protocol (OAuth). All these protocols enjoy widespread > deployment on the Internet. Although they all aim to solve a similar > goal, at an abstract level, they offer quite different functions and > utilize different message exchanges. These differences result from the > main deployment use cases they were designed for respectively. >=20 > Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing > work as a solution for constrained environments. These protocols, > however, were not optimized for constrained environments. Additional > requirements that need to be taken into account are the lack of a > suitable user-interface and the inability of embedded devices to contact > an authorization server in real-time with every resource access request > due to intermittent connectivity, etc. >=20 > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for > authentication and authorization to enable authorized access (GET, PUT, PO= ST,=20 > DELETE) to resources identified by a URI and hosted on a resource > server in constrained environments. As a starting point, the working > group will assume that access to resources at a resource server by a > client device takes place using CoAP and is protected by DTLS. Both > resource server and client may be constrained. This access will be > mediated by an authorization server, which is not considered to be > constrained. >=20 > Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used where > applicable to build the constrained-environment solution. This requires > relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability, selecting a > subset of them and restricting the options within each of the > specifications. Some functionality, however, may not be available in > existing protocols, in which case the solution may also involve new > protocol work. Leveraging existing work means the working group benefits > from available security analysis, implementation, and deployment > experience. Moreover, a standardized solution for federated > authentication and authorization will help to stimulate the deployment > of constrained devices that provide increased security. >=20 > Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, > the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also > applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main > protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In > particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS > will be investigated. The working group will not work on other application= =20 > protocols with their related transport protocols, and other protocols=20 > at other layers in the stack, until the work on CoAP and HTTP > with DTLS and TLS is completed. Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transitio= n, the > integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly > concerning the use of protocol translation proxies. >=20 > This work does not make the assumption that the party offering > application layer services is always the same party offering network > access services. >=20 > The working group has the following tasks: >=20 > 1) Produce use cases and requirements >=20 > 2) Identify authentication and authorization mechanisms suitable for > resource access in constrained environments. >=20 > Milestones: >=20 > Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. > Dec 2014 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution" as a WG item. > Jul 2015 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for > publication as an Informational RFC. > Jul 2016 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution" > specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. >=20 > Proposed Milestones=20 > No milestones for charter found. >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.i= etf@gmail.com]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5 2= 1:51 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Likepeng > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Benoit Claise; The IESG; aaa-doctors@ietf.org; ace@iet= f.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Ace] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00= -01: (with BLOCK) >=20 > Likepeng, >=20 > Sorry for the top-post. >=20 > Thank you for the definitions and better descriptions for 'resource'. > I think Paul got it right in his comment, the term resource is well-known f= or REST-heads as he called them. Is it worth having that reference or do fo= lks like the definitions as provided below without that additional reference= ? >=20 > Some of the feedback on the charter is that it would be helpful to have it= be clearer and more concise. The discussion has very > productive, with many angles/questions being explored. Would it be > helpful to see what the revision looks like and to see if we are getting c= loser? >=20 > Thanks! From nobody Mon May 19 00:52:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7690E1A030F; Mon, 19 May 2014 00:52:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ldwzJNjuS8kY; Mon, 19 May 2014 00:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fsmsg2.sics.se (fsmsg2.sics.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:3a:1:250:56ff:fea9:52ad]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C051A015A; Mon, 19 May 2014 00:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (fsmsg2 [127.0.0.1]) by fsmsg2.sics.se (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s4J7d8XS030384; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:51:57 +0200 Received: from letter.sics.se (letter.sics.se [193.10.64.6]) by fsmsg2.sics.se with ESMTP id 1kppjuvbns-1; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:51:57 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.108] (unknown [85.235.11.178]) (Authenticated sender: ludwig@sics.se) by letter.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 68FBE40116; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:51:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5379B81D.8090000@sics.se> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:51:57 +0200 From: Ludwig Seitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba , Alan DeKok References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <53747A43.7070404@sics.se>, <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090405080601030000080302" X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.96, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-05-18_03:2014-05-17,2014-05-18,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/2Gm6zInLbBQQCBRXsh69oGQZDOs Cc: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] [AAA-DOCTORS] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 07:52:07 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090405080601030000080302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/16/2014 09:31 PM, Bernard Aboba wrote: > > Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. > > > > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A > > simple server is more, but not a lot more. They can each do 1000's o= f > > packets per second on commodity hardware with a naive implementation= , at > > low latencies. > > [BA] I have run global networks with RADIUS servers based on hardware a= > fraction of the power of today's mobile handsets, authenticating device= s > so constrained that no modern operating system would run on them (e.g. > 100 Mhz PCs running Windows 3.1 with 4 MB RAM). The devices don't even= > need to support cryptographic computation - RADIUS was designed to > support cleartext authentication (e.g. PAP). > I'd recommend that you have a look at the work of the LWIG WG (RFC 7228). You will find that when we talk about "constrained devices"=20 we mean something like 10 KB RAM and 100 KB persistent memory. When it comes to network traffic, we struggle to keep message sizes=20 under 50 bytes to avoid fragmentation at the link layer. Do you really think that RADIUS would work for such devices without=20 further adaptation? Regards, Ludwig --=20 Ludwig Seitz, PhD SICS Swedish ICT AB Ideon Science Park Building Beta 2 Scheelev=E4gen 17 SE-223 70 Lund Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51 http://www.sics.se --------------ms090405080601030000080302 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMVDCC BhgwggUAoAMCAQICAwiRTjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBjDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNV BAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRl IFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlh dGUgQ2xpZW50IENBMB4XDTE0MDEwNzA3MjgzNVoXDTE1MDEwNzEyNTgyMlowODEXMBUGA1UE AwwObHVkd2lnQHNpY3Muc2UxHTAbBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDmx1ZHdpZ0BzaWNzLnNlMIIBIjAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAnLm1tc30QxHa9wtdVjC3NgxjLJicnccm0HD+ 1X16kPMKGvwps8F1oDhYn7jXIe46p1AuJMzLK0GIioE4JwxCFGdvpz7cg2xyTyrdBVUzSqez Dfqt4FOJq6hrdrIMS8MHEzl7Jk02gv9cTn/pHQvDpkiThRpbSLU5mlMqtEQ8gDQY5YyBX0Mv 5qculV08I2JU8HEeTt1oeqhvBImgQfOVYMDatHlWHUVVrmYd6iIo+cuiUGd5kiA0XuaLYX0E oCoao/z5Wg9U0sQlx0hl4r96Q+NdoZZ1prfts3qtyBzJ2hu135aikigzJ6sueWHv/jbISUek tOMm0xkx1GOqqWtEAwIDAQABo4IC1DCCAtAwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBLAwHQYD VR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRZmjjBh8N3klra+mVQgC00 pl68ZTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6WNU7y1LhRgjAZBgNVHREEEjAQgQ5sdWR3 aWdAc2ljcy5zZTCCAUwGA1UdIASCAUMwggE/MIIBOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgMwggEqMC4GCCsG AQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMIH3BggrBgEFBQcC AjCB6jAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgEBGoG+VGhpcyBj ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSB3YXMgaXNzdWVkIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQ2xhc3MgMSBWYWxpZGF0 aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgU3RhcnRDb20gQ0EgcG9saWN5LCByZWxpYW5jZSBv bmx5IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcHVycG9zZSBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSByZWx5 aW5nIHBhcnR5IG9ibGlnYXRpb25zLjA2BgNVHR8ELzAtMCugKaAnhiVodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jcnR1MS1jcmwuY3JsMIGOBggrBgEFBQcBAQSBgTB/MDkGCCsGAQUFBzAB hi1odHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc3ViL2NsYXNzMS9jbGllbnQvY2EwQgYIKwYB BQUHMAKGNmh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3N1Yi5jbGFzczEuY2xpZW50 LmNhLmNydDAjBgNVHRIEHDAahhhodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS8wDQYJKoZIhvcN AQELBQADggEBAHqEYmtWr83S+iLXE97KBnHJZiMr6PMuLKxmh0o6UJJwKgf+KTP2czxRnPSI +whuqfQZdmz6g3A2K8AooMU0RXrzncnX1c4826APdnXkRxnGQxtZXI1wuhPn4z7iDKZ6ij9u K5Pfn10JL/ERDig2qJQbqvhtIAx0RY7y7r+hLMvgXVq9mf3WRJYmGQeFW+N9t5Z1eEwG4m9R KAZm0fnfeDn/Ai4kmxTckBH7dZwW2lTtwQqQ4su+PGCJ0e9ndBLpvTqaYGSAl+L7PO7vxPhS /cS67Xa6BtnYJLTr3MaGXaN+CEUFSfwQHa9DKcAqh3kldErI3kCvnot0CigBl4aILOEwggY0 MIIEHKADAgECAgEeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMH0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMSkwJwYDVQQDEyBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0wNzEw MjQyMTAxNTVaFw0xNzEwMjQyMTAxNTVaMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3Rh cnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmlu ZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDHCYPMzi3YGrEppC4Tq5a+ ijKDjKaIQZZVR63UbxIP6uq/I0fhCu+cQhoUfE6ERKKnu8zPf1Jwuk0tsvVCk6U9b+0UjM0d Lep3ZdE1gblK/1FwYT5Pipsu2yOMluLqwvsuz9/9f1+1PKHG/FaR/wpbfuIqu54qzHDYeqiU fsYzoVflR80DAC7hmJ+SmZnNTWyUGHJbBpA8Q89lGxahNvuryGaC/o2/ceD2uYDX9U8Eg5Dp IpGQdcbQeGarV04WgAUjjXX5r/2dabmtxWMZwhZna//jdiSyrrSMTGKkDiXm6/3/4ebfeZuC YKzN2P8O2F/Xe2AC/Y7zeEsnR7FOp+uXAgMBAAGjggGtMIIBqTAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/ MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUU3Ltkpzg2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4UYIwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUTgvvGqRAW6UXaYcwyjRoQ9BBrvIwZgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEWjBYMCcGCCsGAQUFBzAB hhtodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vY2EwLQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGIWh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNydDBbBgNVHR8EVDBSMCegJaAjhiFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0 YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zZnNjYS5jcmwwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nm c2NhLmNybDCBgAYDVR0gBHkwdzB1BgsrBgEEAYG1NwECATBmMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRw Oi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMDQGCCsGAQUFBwIBFihodHRwOi8vd3d3 LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9pbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUucGRmMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQAKgwh9 eKssBly4Y4xerhy5I3dNoXHYfYa8PlVLL/qtXnkFgdtY1o95CfegFJTwqBBmf8pyTUnFsukD FUI22zF5bVHzuJ+GxhnSqN2sD1qetbYwBYK2iyYA5Pg7Er1A+hKMIzEzcduRkIMmCeUTyMyi kfbUFvIBivtvkR8ZFAk22BZy+pJfAoedO61HTz4qSfQoCRcLN5A0t4DkuVhTMXIzuQ8Cnykh ExD6x4e6ebIbrjZLb7L+ocR0y4YjCl/Pd4MXU91y0vTipgr/O75CDUHDRHCCKBVmz/Rzkc/b 970MEeHt5LC3NiWTgBSvrLEuVzBKM586YoRD9Dy3OHQgWI270g+5MYA8GfgI/EPT5G7xPbCD z+zjdH89PeR3U4So4lSXur6H6vp+m9TQXPF3a0LwZrp8MQ+Z77U1uL7TelWO5lApsbAonrqA SfTpaprFVkL4nyGH+NHST2ZJPWIBk81i6Vw0ny0qZW2Niy/QvVNKbb43A43ny076khXO7cNb BIRdJ/6qQNq9Bqb5C0Q5nEsFcj75oxQRqlKf6TcvGbjxkJh8BYtv9ePsXklAxtm8J7GCUBth HSQgepbkOexhJ0wP8imUkyiPHQ0GvEnd83129fZjoEhdGwXV27ioRKbj/cIq7JRXun0NbeY+ UdMYu9jGfIpDLtUUGSgsg2zMGs5R4jGCA90wggPZAgEBMIGUMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEW MBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlm aWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVy bWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwiRTjAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIICHTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNDA1MTkwNzUxNTdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEW BBTVypqsxBk+y5douoCWGa9MgLqV+jBsBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjAL BglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFA MAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGlBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgZcwgZQwgYwxCzAJBgNV BAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRh bCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1h cnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDCJFOMIGnBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBl6CBlDCB jDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3Vy ZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNz IDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgMIkU4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAE ggEAZbLsMlAiHuLeQ3kgWQ3h914E1RHP/gWLC9S91s3Z7DVax4YqGviwYPf4HnyRjLJy2bAr Byk7YaQuxClZJHm6AxhetLQg5x0oVCxZMf5wFhumWdLVYie+X35B30eK39hUKTSgDNGjKD5P mkWe+q/+mhOhn8+rBNA9fhrRO3iJ6bMKvtdat0VGOC+KzTQS7Oqnk4LNL7pw2uAdLpY1Kuz2 DdxQJsMQz93n1RS2omNch+vPgP0OSK+6Jrk9BLtSTCQGXbfS8NIkFe0IF8+wF794oOT8coh4 d5W1eNIwY2dWAA/Ge2Z5hxKWgjPJNSURPtX3FL94V7bT0HJCynh4JGnDwgAAAAAAAA== --------------ms090405080601030000080302-- From nobody Mon May 19 01:22:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195661A031F; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:22:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 76EMBqwOwCB7; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan17.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.45.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFB6A1A0317; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mailscan5.hi.local) by mailscan-g66.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmIph-0004HX-3i; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:22:05 +0100 Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan5.hi.local with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmIpg-0007Um-JJ; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:22:05 +0100 Received: from host81-132-242-251.range81-132.btcentralplus.com ([81.132.242.251] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1WmIpd-0006WW-Uo; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:22:02 +0100 Message-ID: <5379BF80.1060703@gridmerge.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:23:28 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ludwig Seitz , Bernard Aboba , Alan DeKok References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <53747A43.7070404@sics.se>, <5374BC0B.2060505@deployingradius.com> <5379B81D.8090000@sics.se> In-Reply-To: <5379B81D.8090000@sics.se> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms010100090809030303080400" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/oCgARsQ_Qs3s29jgec4HvJg_SOE Cc: "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] [AAA-DOCTORS] Benoit Claise's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:22:17 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010100090809030303080400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040301050206070608010806" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040301050206070608010806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's be clear here: It was never said (in the charter or anywhere else=20 in the group to my knowledge) that RADIUS (or indeed any other AAA=20 protocol) would not run on constrained devices (RFC 7228). The charter=20 simply said the protocols were not optimised for constrained devices.=20 That does not preclude considering any protocol for suitability for=20 constrained devices either a) as is, b) in a restricted way or c) in an=20 adapted way. So, at this stage, I don't think any protocols should be excluded from=20 consideration and should certainly not be eliminated on a hunch that=20 they might be "too big". Let's do the assessment properly at the=20 appropriate time. As a reminder - the focus now is to complete the charte= r. Robert On 19/05/2014 8:51 AM, Ludwig Seitz wrote: > On 05/16/2014 09:31 PM, Bernard Aboba wrote: >> > Adaptation to *what*? That's the part I'm missing. >> > >> > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~5K LoC. A >> > simple server is more, but not a lot more. They can each do 1000's = of >> > packets per second on commodity hardware with a naive=20 >> implementation, at >> > low latencies. >> >> [BA] I have run global networks with RADIUS servers based on hardware = a >> fraction of the power of today's mobile handsets, authenticating devic= es >> so constrained that no modern operating system would run on them (e.g.= >> 100 Mhz PCs running Windows 3.1 with 4 MB RAM). The devices don't eve= n >> need to support cryptographic computation - RADIUS was designed to >> support cleartext authentication (e.g. PAP). >> > > I'd recommend that you have a look at the work of the LWIG WG > (RFC 7228). You will find that when we talk about "constrained=20 > devices" we mean something like 10 KB RAM and 100 KB persistent memory.= > When it comes to network traffic, we struggle to keep message sizes=20 > under 50 bytes to avoid fragmentation at the link layer. > > Do you really think that RADIUS would work for such devices without=20 > further adaptation? > > > Regards, > Ludwig > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace --------------040301050206070608010806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's be clear here: It was never said (in the charter or anywhere else in the group to my knowledge) that RADIUS (or indeed any other AAA protocol) would not run on constrained devices (RFC 7228). The charter simply said the protocols were not optimised for constrained devices. That does not preclude considering any protocol for suitability for constrained devices either a) as is, b) in a restricted way or c) in an adapted way.

So, at this stage, I don't think any protocols should be excluded from consideration and should certainly not be eliminated on a hunch that they might be "too big". Let's do the assessment properly at the appropriate time. As a reminder - the focus now is to complete the charter.

Robert
 
On 19/05/2014 8:51 AM, Ludwig Seitz wrote:
On 05/16/2014 09:31 PM, Bernard Aboba wrote:
 > Adaptation to *what*? That's t= he part I'm missing.
 >
 > Speaking from the RADIUS side, a well-done client is ~= 5K LoC. A
 > simple server is more, but not a lot more. They can ea= ch do 1000's of
 > packets per second on commodity hardware with a naive implementation, at
 > low latencies.

[BA] I have run global networks with RADIUS servers based on hardware a
fraction of the power of today's mobile handsets, authenticating devices
so constrained that no modern operating system would run on them (e.g.
100 Mhz PCs running Windows 3.1 with 4 MB RAM).  The devices= don't even
need to support cryptographic computation - RADIUS was designed to
support cleartext authentication (e.g. PAP).


I'd recommend that you have a look at the work of the LWIG WG
(RFC 7228). You will find that when we talk about "constrained devices" we mean something like 10 KB RAM and 100 KB persistent memory.
When it comes to network traffic, we struggle to keep message sizes under 50 bytes to avoid fragmentation at the link layer.

Do you really think that RADIUS would work for such devices without further adaptation?


Regards,
Ludwig 



_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ie=
tf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace

--------------040301050206070608010806-- --------------ms010100090809030303080400 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UE ChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGlj YXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC ggEBAJKEhFtLV5jUXi+LpOFAyKNTWF9mZfEyTvefMn1V0HhMVbdClOD5J3EHxcZppLkyxPFA GpDMJ1Zifxe1cWmu5SAb5MtjXmDKokH2auGj/7jfH0htZUOMKi4rYzh337EXrMLaggLW1DJq 1GdvIBOPXDX65VSAr9hxCh03CgJQU2yVHakQFLSZlVkSMf8JotJM3FLb3uJAAVtIaN3FSrTg 7SQfOq9xXwfjrL8UO7AlcWg99A/WF1hGFYE8aIuLgw9teiFX5jSw2zJ+40rhpVJyZCaRTqWS D//gsWD9Gm9oUZljjRqLpcxCm5t9ImPTqaD8zp6Q30QZ9FxbNboW86eb/8ECAwEAAaOCAUsw ggFHMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59MB0GA1UdDgQWBBR6E04AdFvG eGNkJ8Ev4qBbvHnFezAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNV HSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwWAYDVR0fBFEwTzBNoEugSYZHaHR0cDovL2NybC51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tL1VUTi1VU0VSRmlyc3QtQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRFbWFpbC5jcmwwdAYI KwYBBQUHAQEEaDBmMD0GCCsGAQUFBzAChjFodHRwOi8vY3J0LnVzZXJ0cnVzdC5jb20vVVRO QWRkVHJ1c3RDbGllbnRfQ0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1 c3QuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCF1r54V1VtM39EUv5C1QaoAQOAivsNsv1Kv/av QUn1G1rF0q0bc24+6SZ85kyYwTAo38v7QjyhJT4KddbQPTmGZtGhm7VNm2+vKGwdr+XqdFqo 2rHA8XV6L566k3nK/uKRHlZ0sviN0+BDchvtj/1gOSBH+4uvOmVIPJg9pSW/ve9g4EnlFsjr P0OD8ODuDcHTzTNfm9C9YGqzO/761Mk6PB/tm/+bSTO+Qik5g+4zaS6CnUVNqGnagBsePdIa XXxHmaWbCG0SmYbWXVcHG6cwvktJRLiQfsrReTjrtDP6oDpdJlieYVUYtCHVmdXgQ0BCML7q peeU0rD+83X5f27nMIIGLjCCBRagAwIBAgIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQUFADCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4G A1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENP TU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xMTA5 MDIwMDAwMDBaFw0xNDA5MDEyMzU5NTlaMIIBNzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxEDAOBgNVBBETB1dG NCA0V0ExFzAVBgNVBAgTDldlc3QgWW9ya3NoaXJlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlXYWtlZmllbGQxFDAS BgNVBAkTC0dyYW5nZSBNb29yMR8wHQYDVQQJExY4OSBHcmVlbmZpZWxkIENyZXNjZW50MRcw FQYDVQQKEw5HcmlkbWVyZ2UgTHRkLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrSXNzdWVkIHRocm91Z2ggR3JpZG1l cmdlIEx0ZC4gRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFp bDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUm9iZXJ0IENyYWdpZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbcm9iZXJ0LmNyYWdp ZUBncmlkbWVyZ2UuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEArcThqvLe WU1Q1ZJmnb+2UQSwOQKWok3A1Mwk582AdvwaAQyBFliPyJ0kXJqtwNBoZvk+3WJr0QA5ZRr+ J0x3sXVpcxadojP2HNzy1gsgDtIGG8ltoU4vmX1A8BTlOIUT+Pg8p/bSruxV0vz0CR8ho2hs R0Zi5vU+rQKNmbgufbkWhlQnMEYjknemscLQfw1YZz90ta67doNDujFy6+X6I06HpjudgMYx 8bdsNS5xVFFwuBA1eqNQra+xLzhCOeX9PPB/zK68qdNhrni3WPYG9EhSt4Dzk+xIz9hj7wrU ZIVXDTPsY8qbUSBVpwmzI5lCHPgzurH1OK7WwgpDSsl5pwIDAQABo4IB1TCCAdEwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUehNOAHRbxnhjZCfBL+KgW7x5xXswHQYDVR0OBBYEFBCOXNH+lDm8U9gy3b3bRvrx vKgrMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwME BggrBgEFBQcDAjBGBgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1o dHRwczovL3NlY3VyZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBXBgNVHR8EUDBOMEygSqBIhkZodHRwOi8v Y3JsLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbS9DT01PRE9DbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVt YWlsQ0EuY3JsMIGIBggrBgEFBQcBAQR8MHowUgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29t b2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5j cnQwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAmBgNVHREEHzAdgRty b2JlcnQuY3JhZ2llQGdyaWRtZXJnZS5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAD6b/O0LkPav kR4Znoqxg0Ad7M3duDm4uzfrlX4ecgq56Ccdwd+3Tayz7Ewej30woVMmTKkA/NKRaCd0wVM9 8seF/oZjXKO7o1SH27igRnGSWjCoWXsdwJGfZbYnvcIIhhsxJoCPNbeSR7C0PAFDKsP3xrJy MHMljIJsoRbZu/fnYNyFWh9OXf7fYJOGmKDKAhSabUGfhY7umvU9d/YTqo02Q6YzC7d4zPNG 1a75AuHSEchf6GdKqycG38I5y9jlDaYfXspoS3PlTNCIeZONbOSMZgftnNEVKq+SWytFqyG/ 8+dwpm/a12KMex5J8iHwaUKj++2O2rAFNjDDqXpeEYoxggQZMIIEFQIBATCBqDCBkzELMAkG A1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9y ZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQg QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIICRTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xNDA1MTkwODIzMjhaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBSRRVX3deBMg9Oxd+rVVGWeBDgd9TBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG5BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgaswgagwgZMxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMTkwNwYDVQQDEzBDT01PRE8gQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUg RW1haWwgQ0ECEFwxUNvELajLmHIeX9p072YwgbsGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGroIGoMIGTMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVu dCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhBcMVDbxC2oy5hyHl/adO9m MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAAlcCot922qGvCfsHO8oIMFagWsx/I3XDUhG/Dw3pcP5gYrw R0NkO96acncgcP8EdbWoG86imimACboEjsmyS/VV/yaylmw623lgZXU/gaKQeFzjHY+csn3a h2uH/Zqxe9GdEKKu+8azPin2IK7QGSsoLmIyWt76FC+/E978cLgG7yURrX6yWuM9iExDtL5U y6YKKfdBtMC3gAF1MzAWuN0G7LjhDvRMniZwDKTgAaJw+uOfxh1V4a9DupA44xAu28Sqe6qq y/iafyezln8Wp1+SmidAwPsehnb99GLa4mai5q8T6oXCe60yh5mZZi14p7A+WCR6Lb6hr2eB C+WIw8EAAAAAAAA= --------------ms010100090809030303080400-- From nobody Mon May 19 01:25:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA061A030F; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:25:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id STZGRiwNwduH; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan17.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.45.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2AE11A0317; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mailscan5.hi.local) by mailscan-g67.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmIst-0005tJ-8u; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:25:23 +0100 Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan5.hi.local with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmIss-0000po-Vk; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:25:23 +0100 Received: from host81-132-242-251.range81-132.btcentralplus.com ([81.132.242.251] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1WmIsk-0002fg-Uy; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <5379C041.4030706@gridmerge.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:26:41 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carsten Bormann , adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000305090203030009050206" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/k2-sY8u8K10p8vEQP5VM5O6s2yY Cc: Barry Leiba , Jari Arkko , The IESG , Likepeng , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:25:29 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000305090203030009050206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 I also think this is workable plan going forward. Robert (+1 to ACRE as well :-) On 18/05/2014 10:46 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 18 May 2014, at 23:26, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> The working group must complete the CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS an= d be >> rechartered before taking on work on other application protocols with = their >> related transport protocols. Work on other protocols at other layers i= n the >> stack is out of scope. > That sounds like a plan to eventually conquer those other application p= rotocols. > Is this really what we tell people we are planning to do? > If addressing application protocols outside the REST turns out to be us= eful, we can recharter at any time without seemingly making such a promis= e now. > > Gr=A8=B9=810=898e, Carsten > > (Should have called it ACRE, not ACE=A1=AD) > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace --------------ms000305090203030009050206 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UE ChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGlj YXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC ggEBAJKEhFtLV5jUXi+LpOFAyKNTWF9mZfEyTvefMn1V0HhMVbdClOD5J3EHxcZppLkyxPFA GpDMJ1Zifxe1cWmu5SAb5MtjXmDKokH2auGj/7jfH0htZUOMKi4rYzh337EXrMLaggLW1DJq 1GdvIBOPXDX65VSAr9hxCh03CgJQU2yVHakQFLSZlVkSMf8JotJM3FLb3uJAAVtIaN3FSrTg 7SQfOq9xXwfjrL8UO7AlcWg99A/WF1hGFYE8aIuLgw9teiFX5jSw2zJ+40rhpVJyZCaRTqWS D//gsWD9Gm9oUZljjRqLpcxCm5t9ImPTqaD8zp6Q30QZ9FxbNboW86eb/8ECAwEAAaOCAUsw ggFHMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59MB0GA1UdDgQWBBR6E04AdFvG eGNkJ8Ev4qBbvHnFezAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNV HSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwWAYDVR0fBFEwTzBNoEugSYZHaHR0cDovL2NybC51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tL1VUTi1VU0VSRmlyc3QtQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRFbWFpbC5jcmwwdAYI KwYBBQUHAQEEaDBmMD0GCCsGAQUFBzAChjFodHRwOi8vY3J0LnVzZXJ0cnVzdC5jb20vVVRO QWRkVHJ1c3RDbGllbnRfQ0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1 c3QuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCF1r54V1VtM39EUv5C1QaoAQOAivsNsv1Kv/av QUn1G1rF0q0bc24+6SZ85kyYwTAo38v7QjyhJT4KddbQPTmGZtGhm7VNm2+vKGwdr+XqdFqo 2rHA8XV6L566k3nK/uKRHlZ0sviN0+BDchvtj/1gOSBH+4uvOmVIPJg9pSW/ve9g4EnlFsjr P0OD8ODuDcHTzTNfm9C9YGqzO/761Mk6PB/tm/+bSTO+Qik5g+4zaS6CnUVNqGnagBsePdIa XXxHmaWbCG0SmYbWXVcHG6cwvktJRLiQfsrReTjrtDP6oDpdJlieYVUYtCHVmdXgQ0BCML7q peeU0rD+83X5f27nMIIGLjCCBRagAwIBAgIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQUFADCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4G A1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENP TU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xMTA5 MDIwMDAwMDBaFw0xNDA5MDEyMzU5NTlaMIIBNzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxEDAOBgNVBBETB1dG NCA0V0ExFzAVBgNVBAgTDldlc3QgWW9ya3NoaXJlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlXYWtlZmllbGQxFDAS BgNVBAkTC0dyYW5nZSBNb29yMR8wHQYDVQQJExY4OSBHcmVlbmZpZWxkIENyZXNjZW50MRcw FQYDVQQKEw5HcmlkbWVyZ2UgTHRkLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrSXNzdWVkIHRocm91Z2ggR3JpZG1l cmdlIEx0ZC4gRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFp bDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUm9iZXJ0IENyYWdpZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbcm9iZXJ0LmNyYWdp ZUBncmlkbWVyZ2UuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEArcThqvLe WU1Q1ZJmnb+2UQSwOQKWok3A1Mwk582AdvwaAQyBFliPyJ0kXJqtwNBoZvk+3WJr0QA5ZRr+ J0x3sXVpcxadojP2HNzy1gsgDtIGG8ltoU4vmX1A8BTlOIUT+Pg8p/bSruxV0vz0CR8ho2hs R0Zi5vU+rQKNmbgufbkWhlQnMEYjknemscLQfw1YZz90ta67doNDujFy6+X6I06HpjudgMYx 8bdsNS5xVFFwuBA1eqNQra+xLzhCOeX9PPB/zK68qdNhrni3WPYG9EhSt4Dzk+xIz9hj7wrU ZIVXDTPsY8qbUSBVpwmzI5lCHPgzurH1OK7WwgpDSsl5pwIDAQABo4IB1TCCAdEwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUehNOAHRbxnhjZCfBL+KgW7x5xXswHQYDVR0OBBYEFBCOXNH+lDm8U9gy3b3bRvrx vKgrMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwME BggrBgEFBQcDAjBGBgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1o dHRwczovL3NlY3VyZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBXBgNVHR8EUDBOMEygSqBIhkZodHRwOi8v Y3JsLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbS9DT01PRE9DbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVt YWlsQ0EuY3JsMIGIBggrBgEFBQcBAQR8MHowUgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29t b2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5j cnQwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAmBgNVHREEHzAdgRty b2JlcnQuY3JhZ2llQGdyaWRtZXJnZS5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAD6b/O0LkPav kR4Znoqxg0Ad7M3duDm4uzfrlX4ecgq56Ccdwd+3Tayz7Ewej30woVMmTKkA/NKRaCd0wVM9 8seF/oZjXKO7o1SH27igRnGSWjCoWXsdwJGfZbYnvcIIhhsxJoCPNbeSR7C0PAFDKsP3xrJy MHMljIJsoRbZu/fnYNyFWh9OXf7fYJOGmKDKAhSabUGfhY7umvU9d/YTqo02Q6YzC7d4zPNG 1a75AuHSEchf6GdKqycG38I5y9jlDaYfXspoS3PlTNCIeZONbOSMZgftnNEVKq+SWytFqyG/ 8+dwpm/a12KMex5J8iHwaUKj++2O2rAFNjDDqXpeEYoxggQZMIIEFQIBATCBqDCBkzELMAkG A1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9y ZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQg QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIICRTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xNDA1MTkwODI2NDFaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBSBuPuzWUBtKIVLiXSZnsXs8VSK3zBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG5BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgaswgagwgZMxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMTkwNwYDVQQDEzBDT01PRE8gQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUg RW1haWwgQ0ECEFwxUNvELajLmHIeX9p072YwgbsGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGroIGoMIGTMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVu dCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhBcMVDbxC2oy5hyHl/adO9m MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAJbyFJZA2hdjeLiiE1L5pOgSoUIZn675SF2bDTJc1d8QKLOf TKHJUJTx/t4qdoRYo50WnrF3K28IL5pW8t2i1gN0ticZNXBZYDMzvC0k0NgoZv8hI631ywq9 LrL4LPWwrBc1Hvr1zIWPLOObn9GK/KZSLpmmKLw8Mjwe8uWPthr9asc9gqlWvOVMn8hf4ll/ Nhlh5JT2Aw/UR8ebpfYmsVHmBBcME4sQqvRt67cmK78FdXa3btBt/H63iS0ue9085azCdBTx UnjCle591883y7GYti6IiifmWn7M6OIFPaAcu45kTU9FeMrIoHIn5kcRwr4ssoKDvONBletl 66Ha3HUAAAAAAAA= --------------ms000305090203030009050206-- From nobody Mon May 19 01:50:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16BF1A0324; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:49:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ap_JX8RaVtrj; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E3551A02BA; Mon, 19 May 2014 01:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4J7n852013826; Mon, 19 May 2014 08:49:08 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4J7n7Oh013801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 19 May 2014 08:49:07 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Carsten Bormann'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:49:06 +0100 Message-ID: <008d01cf7336$cfe4a490$6fadedb0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFYqhR1P2teX39lTaQQdQZOocGTfQJD/FAUAbL06YcCrV/OiQGxEc4PAtIeeVMCT3chOQIZbsMlArFji7MBELXZygKUqQfam4XfH9A= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1017-20702.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--10.480-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--10.480-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: wQVy7q402w1SN5j/GgtDwWzBijri5+RVzJHaSc2zFBHadW4iYSMjUcyr Wowku0g167bbxviPXhsHKNkDNM3/9mk5Fql3Faa7JrUxoq6hvw9+Mk6ACsw4Jv+va9zagYbens6 YHyuEzV0iyQ/LSmNsHqjoTSQinsmZSSOWVJeuO1ATNCcUsR4xSd0H8LFZNFG7bkV4e2xSge6kU2 fvdv4p6PPPIUN9JzNaIOTYCu2+2oMn7pyEI2AGx18I4oUq5Vga Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/-bCv9o7sktzourR50hgDClmrmr4 Cc: 'Barry Leiba' , 'Jari Arkko' , 'The IESG' , 'Likepeng' , ace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:50:00 -0000 Carsten, I agree with you, and *I* am happy with the text currently on = the web page. But others are not happy so I am looking for middle ground. A > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] > Sent: 18 May 2014 22:46 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc: Likepeng; Jari Arkko; Barry Leiba; The IESG; ace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: = (with BLOCK) >=20 > On 18 May 2014, at 23:26, Adrian Farrel wrote: >=20 > > The working group must complete the CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS = and be > > rechartered before taking on work on other application protocols = with their > > related transport protocols. Work on other protocols at other layers = in the > > stack is out of scope. >=20 > That sounds like a plan to eventually conquer those other application protocols. > Is this really what we tell people we are planning to do? > If addressing application protocols outside the REST turns out to be = useful, we > can recharter at any time without seemingly making such a promise now. >=20 > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >=20 > (Should have called it ACRE, not ACE=85) From nobody Mon May 19 02:49:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198CC1A033D; Mon, 19 May 2014 02:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8qkEupBSZoRj; Mon, 19 May 2014 02:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6D931A032F; Mon, 19 May 2014 02:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEH30719; Mon, 19 May 2014 09:49:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 10:49:04 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.40) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 10:49:07 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA408-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 17:49:03 +0800 From: Likepeng To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Barry Leiba'" Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/Jpf0GKHR8wU26ZeDnJQgKn5s+xVqQ//+MCQCAAJ+lwP//hPqAgAAHyoCAAAHKAIACTtAAgAX/vlD//45MAAAqshNg Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:49:02 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B39D23@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.205] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/0H1Maf_5YRFqUykFEbF9puK7fr8 Cc: 'The IESG' , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 09:49:33 -0000 PkhvdyBhYm91dC4uLg0KDQo+VGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbXVzdCBjb21wbGV0ZSB0aGUgQ29B UCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUyBhbmQgYmUgcmVjaGFydGVyZWQgYmVmb3JlIHRh a2luZyBvbiB3b3JrIG9uIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoIHRoZWlyIHJl bGF0ZWQgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3RvY29scy4gV29yayBvbiBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3Ro ZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjayBpcyBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUuDQoNCkZpbmUgd2l0aCBtZS4N Cg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEFk cmlhbiBGYXJyZWwgW21haWx0bzphZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrXSANCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0 xOo11MIxOcjVIDU6MjcNCsrVvP7IyzogTGlrZXBlbmc7ICdKYXJpIEFya2tvJzsgJ0JhcnJ5IExl aWJhJw0Ks63LzTogJ1RoZSBJRVNHJzsgYWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBSRTogW0FjZV0gQWRy aWFuIEZhcnJlbCdzIEJsb2NrIG9uIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDA6ICh3aXRoIEJMT0NL KQ0KDQpTb3JyeSB0byBiZSBhIHBhaW4sIGJ1dCB0aGF0IGlzIGEgZGVmaW5pdGUgIm5vIiBmcm9t IG1lLg0KDQpUaGF0IHNheXMuLi4NClRoZSBXRyB3aWxsIChvciBjYW4pIHdvcmsgb24gc2VjdXJp dHkgZm9yIHJvdXRpbmcgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG9uY2UgaXQgaGFzIGZpbmlzaGVkIHdpdGggQ29BUCBh bmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4NCg0KSG93IGFib3V0Li4uDQoNClRoZSB3b3JraW5n IGdyb3VwIG11c3QgY29tcGxldGUgdGhlIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMg YW5kIGJlIHJlY2hhcnRlcmVkIGJlZm9yZSB0YWtpbmcgb24gd29yayBvbiBvdGhlciBhcHBsaWNh dGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0aCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGVkIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMuIFdv cmsgb24gb3RoZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90aGVyIGxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2sgaXMgb3V0 IG9mIHNjb3BlLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBZHJpYW4NCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn ZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEFjZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhh bGYgT2YgTGlrZXBlbmcNCj4gU2VudDogMTggTWF5IDIwMTQgMjE6NTINCj4gVG86IEphcmkgQXJr a287IEJhcnJ5IExlaWJhDQo+IENjOiBhZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrIEZhcnJlbDsgVGhlIElF U0c7IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0FjZV0gQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCdzIEJs b2NrIG9uIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDA6IA0KPiAod2l0aA0KQkxPQ0spDQo+IA0KPiA+ SSBkbyBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwbGFuLg0KPiBHbGFkIHRvIHNlZSB3ZSBhcmUgb24gdGhlIHNh bWUgcGFnZSBmb3IgdGhlIHBsYW4uDQo+IA0KPiBIb3cgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyByZXdvcmRpbmc/DQo+ IFRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgbm90IHdvcmsgb24gb3RoZXIgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJv dG9jb2xzIHdpdGggDQo+IHRoZWlyDQpyZWxhdGVkDQo+IHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFu ZCBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjaywgDQo+IHVudGls DQp0aGUNCj4gd29yayBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTIGlzIGNvbXBs ZXRlZC4NCj4gDQo+IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGltcG9ydGFudCBtZXNzYWdlIHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gY29u dmV5IGlzLCB3ZSB3aWxsIG5vdCB3b3JrIA0KPiBvbiBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9y aXphdGlvbiBmb3IgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIGxpa2UgT01BIA0KPiBETSwgdHJhbnNw b3J0IHByb3RvY29scyBsaWtlIFNNUyAvVVNTRCBldGMuDQo+IA0KPiBLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCj4g S2VwZW5nDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCj4gt6K8/sjLOiBBY2UgW21haWx0bzph Y2UtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBKYXJpIEFya2tvDQo+ILeiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOo1 1MIxNcjVIDE2OjM3DQo+IMrVvP7IyzogQmFycnkgTGVpYmENCj4gs63LzTogYWRyaWFuQG9sZGRv Zy5jby51ayBGYXJyZWw7IFRoZSBJRVNHOyBhY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g1vfM4jogUmU6IFtBY2Vd IEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAwOiAod2l0aCAN Cj4gQkxPQ0spDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiBJIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQsIGJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIGl0J3MgYWx3 YXlzIGJlZW4gdGhlIGludGVudCBmb3IgdGhpcyB3b3JrIA0KPiA+IHRvIHN0YXJ0IGF0IHRoZSBB cHAgbGF5ZXIgb25seSwgYW5kIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgb3RoZXIgDQo+ID4gcHJv dG9jb2xzIGFuZCBsYXllcnMgbGF0ZXIuDQo+IA0KPiBXZWxsLCB3aGF0IEkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGxv b2sgYXQgd2FzIG9uIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgbGF5ZXIgKGUuZy4sIA0KPiBkYXRhDQpvYmpl Y3QNCj4gc2VjdXJpdHkpLCBub3Qgb24gb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzLg0KPiANCj4gPiBJIHdvdWxkIHdh bnQgdXMgdG8gZ2V0IHRoaXMgd29yayBkb25lIGZpcnN0IGluIGFueSBjYXNlLCBhbmQgdGhlbiAN Cj4gPiByZS1jaGFydGVyIHRvIGdvIGZ1cnRoZXIuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBJZiB5b3UgZGlzYWdyZWUg d2l0aCB0aGF0IHBsYW4sIGxldCdzIHRhbGsgYWJvdXQgaXQgYW5kIHNlZSB3aGVyZSBpdCANCj4g PiBicmluZ3MNCnVzLg0KPiANCj4gSSBkbyBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwbGFuLCBidXQgbXkgcG9p bnQgd2FzIHRoYXQgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGNoYXJ0ZXIgDQo+IHZlcnNpb24NCndhcyBvbg0KPiB0 aGF0IHBsYW4gYXMgd2VsbCB3aGlsZSBzdGlsbCByZWNvZ25pc2luZyB0aGUgYXBwbGljYWJpbGl0 eSBvZiB0aGUgDQo+IHJlc3VsdHMgdG8NCm90aGVyDQo+IHRoaW5ncy4gTXkgb3BpbmlvbiBpcyB0 aGF0IHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyB2ZXJzaW9uIHdhcyBiZXR0ZXIsIGFuZCB3b3VsZCANCj4gcHJvYmFi bHkgZ2V0IG1vcmUgb2YgdXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHRoZSB0b3BpYy4NCj4g DQo+IEphcmkNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQo+IEFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gQWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IEFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gQWNlQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQoNCg== From nobody Mon May 19 03:24:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C781A0337; Mon, 19 May 2014 03:24:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zmAA23xrxnXk; Mon, 19 May 2014 03:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1304A1A032F; Mon, 19 May 2014 03:24:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4JANoNj015442; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [134.102.218.216] (dynamic-218-q.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.216]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC2691F7E; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5379DBB2.5020400@tzi.de> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:23:46 +0200 From: Stefanie Gerdes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Likepeng , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Barry Leiba'" References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B39D23@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B39D23@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/2QElAYhrBxouc0fyJyfmHmAW2KM Cc: 'The IESG' , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 10:24:06 -0000 On 05/19/2014 11:49 AM, Likepeng wrote: >> How about... > >> The working group must complete the CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS and be rechartered before taking on work on other application protocols with their related transport protocols. Work on other protocols at other layers in the stack is out of scope. I'd rather like the charter to concentrate on what we want to do now and not speculate about things we might want to do after rechartering. Thanks, Steffi From nobody Mon May 19 05:05:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39EA1A035B; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNtq4-gdLq_D; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ED151A0350; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:05:11 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f790e6d000001067-33-5379f3750b36 Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AF.0D.04199.573F9735; Mon, 19 May 2014 14:05:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.215]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 14:05:08 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'Likepeng' , 'Jari Arkko' , 'Barry Leiba' Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/GZN+O86iEW0aDG4/qxYbMI5s+pDmAgAARvwCAABkjAIAAC32AgAAHyYCAAAHLAIACTtAAgAWEXYCAAAmsAIABFuIA Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:05:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7p58pgg9nPZSy+f+thtvjRc4PZ 4tDiS6wWM/5MZLaYsW8Fm8Wew03MDmweLat6mT1ajrxl9Viy5CeTx4rNKxk9ti6ZzhbAGsVl k5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV8XvefuaCA2oVfxc+YWlgPKDaxcjBISFgInH4oEcXIyeQKSZx4d56NhBb SOAoo8StJa4Q9hJGicmf8kBsNgEXiQcNj5i6GLk4RAQWM0p82/6UHSTBLGAr0bS3lxnEFhYI kjh7ZhMzyHwRgWCJxW+dQcIiAnkSa191gJWzCKhKbLxzH6ycV8BC4vHBaawgM4UEfrFIfN7d xgqS4BSwlpi04xxYESPQcd9PrWGC2CUucevJfCaIowUkluw5zwxhi0q8fPwPrFdUQE/i3XGY GkWJq9OXM4HcwyygKbF+lz7EGGuJjStPsELYihJTuh+yQ9wjKHFy5hOWCYwSs5Bsm4XQPQtJ 9ywk3bOQdC9gZF3FKFqcWpyUm25kpJdalJlcXJyfp5eXWrKJERjHB7f8NtjB+PK54yFGAQ5G JR7eBamVwUKsiWXFlbmHGKU5WJTEeW/vKg0WEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwJgl /3r982utXemy4uKHC2YuYtW3P7rW+W2VQ+ea7nc3XxnUnlHd2v2Zwy1jI+tNphPyTWqm6X85 p7sK8js/YA+L+ena9rl6x9d5aQfCr5ZZTFKNu/Bs8zIx46z8WfWxR3VfV0k3Xvlb7Fvw9MWu F0KTGFYyXGrSqDlwyf2Aqt/nXyGLFM5e/anEUpyRaKjFXFScCAC5anJ8xAIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/G8aWLBpdfWzTw1dOvlZjtQY1MA8 Cc: 'The IESG' , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:05:13 -0000 U29ycnkgZm9yIHJlLWl0ZXJhdGluZywgYnV0IEnigJltIHN0aWxsIG1pc3NpbmcgdGhlIG11bHRp LXBhcnR5IHByb3RvY29sDQp3aGljaCBwcm92aWRlcyB0aGUgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBhbmQgc3VwcG9ydHMgY2xpZW50LXNlcnZlcg0Kd2l0aCBrZXkgZXN0YWJsaXNobWVudC4N Cg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2FjZS9jdXJyZW50L21zZzAw NTcyLmh0bWwNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9hY2UvY3VycmVu dC9tc2cwMDU3Ny5odG1sDQoNCkkgcmVhZCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBkcmFmdCwgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyB0 aGUgcHJvcG9zYWwgYmVsb3csIGFzIGlmIHRoaXMNCnByb3RvY29sIGlzIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgb3V0 IG9mIHNjb3BlLCB3aGljaCBJIGludGVycHJldCB0aGF0IHRoZSBXRyBpcyBub3QNCmdvaW5nIHRv IHdvcmsgb24gdGhpbmdzIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBhdCBhbGwuDQoNCkfDtnJh bg0KDQoNCk9uIDE4LzA1LzE0IDIzOjI2LCAiQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cu Y28udWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+U29ycnkgdG8gYmUgYSBwYWluLCBidXQgdGhhdCBpcyBhIGRlZmlu aXRlICJubyIgZnJvbSBtZS4NCj4NCj5UaGF0IHNheXMuLi4NCj5UaGUgV0cgd2lsbCAob3IgY2Fu KSB3b3JrIG9uIHNlY3VyaXR5IGZvciByb3V0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scyBvbmNlIGl0IGhhcw0KPmZp bmlzaGVkDQo+d2l0aCBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLg0KPg0KPkhvdyBh Ym91dC4uLg0KPg0KPlRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIG11c3QgY29tcGxldGUgdGhlIENvQVAgYW5k IEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgYW5kIGJlDQo+cmVjaGFydGVyZWQgYmVmb3JlIHRha2lu ZyBvbiB3b3JrIG9uIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoDQo+dGhlaXINCj5y ZWxhdGVkIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMuIFdvcmsgb24gb3RoZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90 aGVyIGxheWVycyBpbg0KPnRoZQ0KPnN0YWNrIGlzIG91dCBvZiBzY29wZS4NCj4NCj5UaGFua3Ms DQo+QWRyaWFuDQo+DQo+DQo+PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPj4gRnJvbTog QWNlIFttYWlsdG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBMaWtlcGVuZw0K Pj4gU2VudDogMTggTWF5IDIwMTQgMjE6NTINCj4+IFRvOiBKYXJpIEFya2tvOyBCYXJyeSBMZWli YQ0KPj4gQ2M6IGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cuY28udWsgRmFycmVsOyBUaGUgSUVTRzsgYWNlQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0FjZV0gQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCdzIEJsb2NrIG9uIGNoYXJ0 ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDA6DQo+Pih3aXRoDQo+QkxPQ0spDQo+PiANCj4+ID5JIGRvIGFncmVl IHdpdGggdGhlIHBsYW4uDQo+PiBHbGFkIHRvIHNlZSB3ZSBhcmUgb24gdGhlIHNhbWUgcGFnZSBm b3IgdGhlIHBsYW4uDQo+PiANCj4+IEhvdyBhYm91dCB0aGlzIHJld29yZGluZz8NCj4+IFRoZSB3 b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgbm90IHdvcmsgb24gb3RoZXIgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xz IHdpdGgNCj4+dGhlaXINCj5yZWxhdGVkDQo+PiB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBhbmQgb3Ro ZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90aGVyIGxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2ssDQo+PnVudGlsDQo+dGhl DQo+PiB3b3JrIG9uIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgaXMgY29tcGxldGVk Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgbWVzc2FnZSB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGNvbnZl eSBpcywgd2Ugd2lsbCBub3Qgd29yayBvbg0KPj4gYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6 YXRpb24gZm9yIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyBsaWtlIE9NQSBETSwNCj4+IHRyYW5zcG9y dCBwcm90b2NvbHMgbGlrZSBTTVMgL1VTU0QgZXRjLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCj4+ IEtlcGVuZw0KPj4gDQo+PiAtLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7ti0tLS0tDQo+PiDlj5Hku7bkuro6IEFj ZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSDku6PooaggSmFyaSBBcmtrbw0KPj4g5Y+R 6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE05bm0NeaciDE15pelIDE2OjM3DQo+PiDmlLbku7bkuro6IEJhcnJ5IExl aWJhDQo+PiDmioTpgIE6IGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cuY28udWsgRmFycmVsOyBUaGUgSUVTRzsgYWNl QGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiDkuLvpopg6IFJlOiBbQWNlXSBBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsJ3MgQmxvY2sgb24g Y2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0wMC0wMDogKHdpdGgNCj4+QkxPQ0spDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gPiBJ IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQsIGJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIGl0J3MgYWx3YXlzIGJlZW4gdGhlIGludGVudCBmb3Ig dGhpcyB3b3JrIHRvDQo+PiA+IHN0YXJ0IGF0IHRoZSBBcHAgbGF5ZXIgb25seSwgYW5kIHRvIGNv bnNpZGVyIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgb3RoZXINCj4+ID4gcHJvdG9jb2xzIGFuZCBsYXllcnMgbGF0ZXIu DQo+PiANCj4+IFdlbGwsIHdoYXQgSSB3YW50ZWQgdG8gbG9vayBhdCB3YXMgb24gdGhlIGFwcGxp Y2F0aW9ucyBsYXllciAoZS5nLiwgZGF0YQ0KPm9iamVjdA0KPj4gc2VjdXJpdHkpLCBub3Qgb24g b3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzLg0KPj4gDQo+PiA+IEkgd291bGQgd2FudCB1cyB0byBnZXQgdGhpcyB3b3Jr IGRvbmUNCj4+ID4gZmlyc3QgaW4gYW55IGNhc2UsIGFuZCB0aGVuIHJlLWNoYXJ0ZXIgdG8gZ28g ZnVydGhlci4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4gSWYgeW91IGRpc2FncmVlIHdpdGggdGhhdCBwbGFuLCBsZXQn cyB0YWxrIGFib3V0IGl0IGFuZCBzZWUgd2hlcmUgaXQNCj4+YnJpbmdzDQo+dXMuDQo+PiANCj4+ IEkgZG8gYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgcGxhbiwgYnV0IG15IHBvaW50IHdhcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBvcmln aW5hbCBjaGFydGVyDQo+PnZlcnNpb24NCj53YXMgb24NCj4+IHRoYXQgcGxhbiBhcyB3ZWxsIHdo aWxlIHN0aWxsIHJlY29nbmlzaW5nIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhYmlsaXR5IG9mIHRoZQ0KPj5yZXN1bHRz IHRvDQo+b3RoZXINCj4+IHRoaW5ncy4gTXkgb3BpbmlvbiBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyB2 ZXJzaW9uIHdhcyBiZXR0ZXIsIGFuZCB3b3VsZA0KPj5wcm9iYWJseQ0KPj4gZ2V0IG1vcmUgb2Yg dXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHRoZSB0b3BpYy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gSmFyaQ0KPj4g DQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4g QWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gQWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IEFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IEFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hY2UNCj4NCj5fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPkFjZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj5BY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2FjZQ0KDQo= From nobody Mon May 19 05:33:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0001A034D; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:33:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dlr4-VeTkhWf; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A2CE1A0359; Mon, 19 May 2014 05:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGX64597; Mon, 19 May 2014 12:33:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 13:32:58 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.34) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 13:33:02 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 19 May 2014 20:32:56 +0800 From: Likepeng To: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Barry Leiba'" Thread-Topic: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHPbp/Jpf0GKHR8wU26ZeDnJQgKn5s+xVqQ//+MCQCAAJ+lwP//hPqAgAAHyoCAAAHKAIACTtAAgAX/vlD//45MAAAeq3QAABFCCvA= Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:32:55 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.93.205] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/zNrPqz3iaz9fWH10I_CL3KuTN4M Cc: 'The IESG' , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:33:08 -0000 SGkgR29yYW4gYW5kIGFsbCwNCg0KSXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCB3ZSB3ZXJlIGluIGFncmVlbWVudCBh Ym91dCBCYXJyeSdzIHByb3Bvc2VkIHRleHQ6DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWwtYXJj aGl2ZS93ZWIvYWNlL2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDA1NzcuaHRtbA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2FjZS9jdXJyZW50L21zZzAwNTgzLmh0bWwNCg0KTkVXDQpOb3RlIHRo YXQgdGhlIGluaXRpYWwgZm9jdXMgaXMgb24gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRM Uy4NCk90aGVyIHNlY3VyaXR5IHByb3RvY29scyBtYXkgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhcyBsb25nIGFz IHRoZSBwcmltYXJ5DQpmb2N1cyBpcyBtYWludGFpbmVkLiAgT3RoZXIgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gcHJv dG9jb2xzIGFuZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXINCmxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2sgYXJlIG91 dCBvZiBzY29wZS4NCkVORA0KDQpPbmx5IEphcmkgcHJlZmVycyB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgdGV4dCAo LTAwIHZlcnNpb24pLiANCg0KU28gaWYgSmFyaSBjYW4gbGl2ZSB3aXRoIEJhcnJ5J3MgcHJvcG9z YWwsIG1heWJlIHdlIGNhbiBtb3ZlIG9uIHdpdGggdGhhdCBvbmUuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCktpbmQg UmVnYXJkcw0KS2VwZW5nDQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogQWNl IFttYWlsdG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIOS7o+ihqCBHP3JhbiBTZWxhbmRlcg0K5Y+R 6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE05bm0NeaciDE55pelIDIwOjA1DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IGFkcmlhbkBvbGRk b2cuY28udWs7IExpa2VwZW5nOyAnSmFyaSBBcmtrbyc7ICdCYXJyeSBMZWliYScNCuaKhOmAgTog J1RoZSBJRVNHJzsgYWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6IFJlOiBbQWNlXSBBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVs J3MgQmxvY2sgb24gY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0wMC0wMDogKHdpdGggQkxPQ0spDQoNClNvcnJ5 IGZvciByZS1pdGVyYXRpbmcsIGJ1dCBJ4oCZbSBzdGlsbCBtaXNzaW5nIHRoZSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0 eSBwcm90b2NvbCB3aGljaCBwcm92aWRlcyB0aGUgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBh bmQgc3VwcG9ydHMgY2xpZW50LXNlcnZlciB3aXRoIGtleSBlc3RhYmxpc2htZW50Lg0KDQpodHRw Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWwtYXJjaGl2ZS93ZWIvYWNlL2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDA1NzIuaHRt bA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2FjZS9jdXJyZW50L21zZzAw NTc3Lmh0bWwNCg0KSSByZWFkIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0LCBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIHRoZSBwcm9w b3NhbCBiZWxvdywgYXMgaWYgdGhpcyBwcm90b2NvbCBpcyBleHBsaWNpdGx5IG91dCBvZiBzY29w ZSwgd2hpY2ggSSBpbnRlcnByZXQgdGhhdCB0aGUgV0cgaXMgbm90IGdvaW5nIHRvIHdvcmsgb24g dGhpbmdzIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBhdCBhbGwuDQoNCkfDtnJhbg0KDQoNCk9u IDE4LzA1LzE0IDIzOjI2LCAiQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cuY28udWs+IHdy b3RlOg0KDQo+U29ycnkgdG8gYmUgYSBwYWluLCBidXQgdGhhdCBpcyBhIGRlZmluaXRlICJubyIg ZnJvbSBtZS4NCj4NCj5UaGF0IHNheXMuLi4NCj5UaGUgV0cgd2lsbCAob3IgY2FuKSB3b3JrIG9u IHNlY3VyaXR5IGZvciByb3V0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scyBvbmNlIGl0IGhhcyANCj5maW5pc2hlZCB3 aXRoIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMuDQo+DQo+SG93IGFib3V0Li4uDQo+ DQo+VGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbXVzdCBjb21wbGV0ZSB0aGUgQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRo IERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUyBhbmQgDQo+YmUgcmVjaGFydGVyZWQgYmVmb3JlIHRha2luZyBvbiB3b3Jr IG9uIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyANCj53aXRoIHRoZWlyIHJlbGF0ZWQgdHJh bnNwb3J0IHByb3RvY29scy4gV29yayBvbiBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgDQo+b3RoZXIgbGF5 ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjayBpcyBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUuDQo+DQo+VGhhbmtzLA0KPkFkcmlhbg0K Pg0KPg0KPj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4+IEZyb206IEFjZSBbbWFpbHRv OmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgTGlrZXBlbmcNCj4+IFNlbnQ6IDE4 IE1heSAyMDE0IDIxOjUyDQo+PiBUbzogSmFyaSBBcmtrbzsgQmFycnkgTGVpYmENCj4+IENjOiBh ZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrIEZhcnJlbDsgVGhlIElFU0c7IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gU3Vi amVjdDogUmU6IFtBY2VdIEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNl LTAwLTAwOg0KPj4od2l0aA0KPkJMT0NLKQ0KPj4gDQo+PiA+SSBkbyBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBw bGFuLg0KPj4gR2xhZCB0byBzZWUgd2UgYXJlIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIHBhZ2UgZm9yIHRoZSBwbGFu Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBIb3cgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyByZXdvcmRpbmc/DQo+PiBUaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91 cCB3aWxsIG5vdCB3b3JrIG9uIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aXRoIA0KPj50 aGVpcg0KPnJlbGF0ZWQNCj4+IHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGFuZCBvdGhlciBwcm90b2Nv bHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSANCj4+c3RhY2ssIHVudGlsDQo+dGhlDQo+PiB3b3Jr IG9uIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMgaXMgY29tcGxldGVkLg0KPj4gDQo+ PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgbWVzc2FnZSB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGNvbnZleSBpcywgd2Ug d2lsbCBub3Qgd29yayANCj4+IG9uIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGZv ciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgbGlrZSANCj4+IE9NQSBETSwgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3Rv Y29scyBsaWtlIFNNUyAvVVNTRCBldGMuDQo+PiANCj4+IEtpbmQgUmVnYXJkcw0KPj4gS2VwZW5n DQo+PiANCj4+IC0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCj4+IOWPkeS7tuS6ujogQWNlIFttYWls dG86YWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIOS7o+ihqCBKYXJpIEFya2tvDQo+PiDlj5HpgIHml7bp l7Q6IDIwMTTlubQ15pyIMTXml6UgMTY6MzcNCj4+IOaUtuS7tuS6ujogQmFycnkgTGVpYmENCj4+ IOaKhOmAgTogYWRyaWFuQG9sZGRvZy5jby51ayBGYXJyZWw7IFRoZSBJRVNHOyBhY2VAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4+IOS4u+mimDogUmU6IFtBY2VdIEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwncyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVy LWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAwOiAod2l0aA0KPj5CTE9DSykNCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiA+IEkgdW5kZXJz dGFuZCwgYnV0IEkgdGhpbmsgaXQncyBhbHdheXMgYmVlbiB0aGUgaW50ZW50IGZvciB0aGlzIHdv cmsgDQo+PiA+IHRvIHN0YXJ0IGF0IHRoZSBBcHAgbGF5ZXIgb25seSwgYW5kIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVy IGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgb3RoZXIgDQo+PiA+IHByb3RvY29scyBhbmQgbGF5ZXJzIGxhdGVyLg0KPj4g DQo+PiBXZWxsLCB3aGF0IEkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGxvb2sgYXQgd2FzIG9uIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlv bnMgbGF5ZXIgKGUuZy4sIA0KPj4gZGF0YQ0KPm9iamVjdA0KPj4gc2VjdXJpdHkpLCBub3Qgb24g b3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzLg0KPj4gDQo+PiA+IEkgd291bGQgd2FudCB1cyB0byBnZXQgdGhpcyB3b3Jr IGRvbmUgZmlyc3QgaW4gYW55IGNhc2UsIGFuZCB0aGVuIA0KPj4gPiByZS1jaGFydGVyIHRvIGdv IGZ1cnRoZXIuDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+IElmIHlvdSBkaXNhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoYXQgcGxhbiwgbGV0 J3MgdGFsayBhYm91dCBpdCBhbmQgc2VlIHdoZXJlIA0KPj4gPiBpdA0KPj5icmluZ3MNCj51cy4N Cj4+IA0KPj4gSSBkbyBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwbGFuLCBidXQgbXkgcG9pbnQgd2FzIHRoYXQg dGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGNoYXJ0ZXIgDQo+PnZlcnNpb24NCj53YXMgb24NCj4+IHRoYXQgcGxhbiBh cyB3ZWxsIHdoaWxlIHN0aWxsIHJlY29nbmlzaW5nIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhYmlsaXR5IG9mIHRoZSAN Cj4+cmVzdWx0cyB0bw0KPm90aGVyDQo+PiB0aGluZ3MuIE15IG9waW5pb24gaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUg cHJldmlvdXMgdmVyc2lvbiB3YXMgYmV0dGVyLCBhbmQgd291bGQgDQo+PnByb2JhYmx5ICBnZXQg bW9yZSBvZiB1cyBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHdvcmtpbmcgb24gdGhlIHRvcGljLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBK YXJpDQo+PiANCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+PiBBY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiBBY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gQWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gQWNlQGll dGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0KPg0K Pl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+QWNlIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPkFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQpBY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpBY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNlDQo= From nobody Mon May 19 14:18:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9210A1A0404; Mon, 19 May 2014 14:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYQxBOS0_UmW; Mon, 19 May 2014 14:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BE6C1A03E4; Mon, 19 May 2014 14:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGY00451; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:18:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 22:17:55 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.33) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 19 May 2014 22:18:00 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.214]) by SZXEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 20 May 2014 05:17:57 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Pete Resnick , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ace] Pete Resnick's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHPbylpJzqvUaw5u0Sn5xwNrxAikptIadzg Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 21:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3B00E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514040255.12167.18095.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140514040255.12167.18095.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.83.234] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/cwkzRVwDR7sMkV_SHevrhHoVvuM Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Pete Resnick's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 21:18:05 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZSwNCg0KPk5vIG5lZWQgZm9yIG1ha2Utd29yayBpZiBpdCB0dXJucyBvdXQgbm90IHRv IGJlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBsb25nIHJ1bi4NCg0KVGhlIGdyb3VwIGRpc2N1c3NlZCB0 aGlzIGlzc3VlIGJlZm9yZSwgYW5kIHRoZSBncm91cCBwcmVmZXJzIHRvIHB1Ymxpc2ggdGhlIHVz ZSBjYXNlcyAmIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBhcyBpbmZvcm1hdGl2ZSBSRkM6DQpodHRwczovL3d3dzYu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9hY2UvY3VycmVudC9tc2cwMDQ1Ni5odG1sDQoNCkF0 IHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcgb2YgbmV4dCBtb250aCwgdGhlcmUgd2lsbCBiZSBhbiBpbmZvcm1hbCBp bnRlcmltIG1lZXRpbmcgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbi4NCg0KQWxz byB0aGVyZSB3YXMgcHJvcG9zYWwgdG8gaGF2ZSBwcmUtbWVldGluZyBpbiBUb3JvbnRvIHRvIGRp c2N1c3MgdmFyaW91cyB0b3BpY3MuDQoNCkhhbm5lcyBhbmQgSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlc2Ug YWN0aXZpdGllcyBjYW4gYWNjZWxlcmF0ZSB0aGUgcHJvZ3Jlc3Mgb24gdXNlIGNhc2UgJiByZXF1 aXJlbWVudHMgdG9waWMsIGFuZCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgZmluaXNoZWQgbXVjaCBlYXJsaWVyLg0K DQpTbyB3ZSBwcm9wb3NlIHRvIGN1dCBkb3duIHRoZSBtaWxlc3RvbmVzIGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIGNh c2VzICYgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzOg0KDQpPTEQ6DQpKdWwgMjAxNSBTdWJtaXQgobBVc2UgY2FzZXMg YW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50c6GxIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIElFU0cgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGlu Zm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgUkZDLiANCg0KTkVXOiANCkRlYyAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCAiVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFu ZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIHRoZSBJRVNHIGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiBhcyBh biBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbmFsIFJGQy4NCkVORA0KDQpIb3BlIHRoaXMgaGVscHMuDQoNClRoYW5rcywN Cg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcgJiBIYW5uZXMNCg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3 orz+yMs6IEFjZSBbbWFpbHRvOmFjZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIFBldGUgUmVzbmlj aw0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTTE6jXUwjE0yNUgMTI6MDMNCsrVvP7IyzogVGhlIElFU0cNCrOty806 IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogW0FjZV0gUGV0ZSBSZXNuaWNrJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9u IGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDE6ICh3aXRoIENPTU1FTlQpDQoNClBldGUgUmVzbmljayBo YXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJhbGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCmNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0 Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDE6IE5vIE9iamVjdGlvbg0KDQpXaGVuIHJlc3BvbmRpbmcsIHBsZWFzZSBrZWVw IHRoZSBzdWJqZWN0IGxpbmUgaW50YWN0IGFuZCByZXBseSB0byBhbGwgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzc2Vz IGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBUbyBhbmQgQ0MgbGluZXMuIChGZWVsIGZyZWUgdG8gY3V0IHRoaXMg aW50cm9kdWN0b3J5IHBhcmFncmFwaCwgaG93ZXZlci4pDQoNCg0KDQpUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQsIGFs b25nIHdpdGggb3RoZXIgYmFsbG90IHBvc2l0aW9ucywgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGhlcmU6DQpodHRw Oi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2NoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UvDQoNCg0KDQotLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tDQpDT01NRU5UOg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpJIHdvdWxkIGdlbmVyYWxseSBh c2sgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGFuZCB1c2UgY2FzZXMgKHImdWMpIGRvY3VtZW50 IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIG91dHB1dCBmcm9tIHRoZSBXRyBvciBjYW4gKGF0IHRoZSBXRydzIGFuZCBB RCdzDQpkaXNjcmV0aW9uKSBzaW1wbHkgYmUgYW4gaW50ZXJuYWwgZG9jdW1lbnQgdGhhdCBuZXZl ciBnZXRzIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBhcyBhbiBSRkMgKEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgaXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUp LCBidXQgdGhlIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBtaWxlc3RvbmVzIG1ha2UgbWUgZXZlbiBtb3JlIGNvbnZpbmNl ZCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIG5lZWQgdG8gcHVibGlzaCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQ6DQpJdCdzIGNs ZWFyIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRldmVsb3BtZW50IG9mIHRoZSBwcm90b2NvbCB3aWxsIGJlIGluIHBhcmFs bGVsIHdpdGggdGhlIGRldmVsb3BtZW50IG9mIHRoZSByJnVjLiBHaXZlbiB0aGF0LCBpdCdzIGNs ZWFyIHRoYXQgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgaXMgbm90IHNheWluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSByJnVjIG5lZWQgdG8g YmUgbmFpbGVkIGRvd24gYmVmb3JlIHdvcmsgY2FuIGNvbW1lbmNlLg0KU28gSSBzYXkgbWFrZSB0 aGUgc3VibWlzc2lvbiB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBhbmQgcHVibGljYXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIHImdWMgb3B0 aW9uYWwuIE5vIG5lZWQgZm9yIG1ha2Utd29yayBpZiBpdCB0dXJucyBvdXQgbm90IHRvIGJlIGlu dGVyZXN0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBsb25nIHJ1bi4NCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KQWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KQWNlQGlldGYub3JnDQpo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0K From nobody Tue May 20 03:55:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DE71A033D; Tue, 20 May 2014 03:55:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RId3bK5DxxyE; Tue, 20 May 2014 03:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909211A0303; Tue, 20 May 2014 03:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8872CEB1; Tue, 20 May 2014 13:55:14 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FU-9ucjvPwh7; Tue, 20 May 2014 13:55:14 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B0B2CEB0; Tue, 20 May 2014 13:55:14 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_23CD74F4-211F-4A04-9720-D3A5E4495A59"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3B00E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 13:55:13 +0300 Message-Id: <2B69D342-51F5-4206-AAD9-46D7232DACD0@piuha.net> References: <20140514040255.12167.18095.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3B00E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/fT3fHqMrglFeVvOoN1RDNbZwDGw Cc: Pete Resnick , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Pete Resnick's No Objection on charter-ietf-ace-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 10:55:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_23CD74F4-211F-4A04-9720-D3A5E4495A59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 FWIW, in my opinion we at the IETF often focus too much on = waterfall-type spec development, and extensive development of = requirements and use cases is a part of that. I'd rather see us move = more towards an incremental development model.=20 Developing requirements and solutions in parallel works better for that, = IMO, and it while it is of course OK for the WG to deliver an RFC, maybe = it would be good to not require it. Particularly when with the current = milestone dates, the project plan is starting to look like developing = all requirements first and then when it is done, develop the solution. I'd suggest the following edit: > Dec 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for = publication as an Informational RFC. > Dec 2014 Optionally, submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to = the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. Jari --Apple-Mail=_23CD74F4-211F-4A04-9720-D3A5E4495A59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTezSRAAoJEM80gCTQU46qoXwP/iN4qjd4+bFkiS6Vd9bPvF+4 GyFqyWsIiAjzWG+9bp4GRw1+Rwx4ZEj71If8UvI/4eWJj1DlATsHC3IS9oOYPZnZ oyzlvfQH6XwwX/LbyVTAtSq/m4sW1mfegr3Jlq1R+5d/Ac66Y6Nb9+nZljiu32oD 3fyGDaEEVkFcHR8joa6//fXNAHZn+4XO7NoV6j3sprjUEE2OXVJT89FKRB9yxpQD YD+tM4+1iguOh0nZBXeOMhp6oohWFW/OH6lYPHCDAvJjbCMups58iiReOhUl1Pt8 JHSBLgic9h3Qg78GzgL+LJgV9+Jn/0FprpSVCOUV26IoKPWd/oGv475JGtfIXu33 g+SFYzMW3whzEDXVFMRFuDFm49N8XX3uH59ARSJH2bovrFjLD2Yzil32O9sVwUw+ xplK4bePZPtuOjDryR6dF6hvJ5ON0LPznHxEdaaYuviu2f0kRehKwvGZ83B0kQpw CxrpPV2kAFAYCHmYyClgrjmuu0bm/FjQjMhQUeTWDJMasHEGMOGMmqu/N65WcwJ1 17Mz2gccompPStAo7PSJ9fKsaiojnvIpp7/mCyuguv2xveIW5U4NPfHKqEuia2M6 bVP8hysjL0WPd10u4XVnZGApgamSNQydxff2sazPvzf2R0bGdBnbRny0ChebSWRC Hax0y6cPVzA6bv8HNjOy =JEi0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_23CD74F4-211F-4A04-9720-D3A5E4495A59-- From nobody Tue May 20 05:05:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194DD1A06CB; Tue, 20 May 2014 05:05:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T6mz4PFIq15O; Tue, 20 May 2014 05:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C0B1A06CA; Tue, 20 May 2014 05:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C102CEB1; Tue, 20 May 2014 15:05:16 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9u8gZHqmfqjm; Tue, 20 May 2014 15:05:15 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7FDD2CEB0; Tue, 20 May 2014 15:05:15 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7D3C9822-6B39-4DCA-83DD-C6C2E30DD0F6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 15:05:15 +0300 Message-Id: <66845998-8E3B-41A4-97FD-AB7AABD1EFE3@piuha.net> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Likepeng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/gSla9JHMqzbZCkSCnWwS1dNak5w Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= , 'The IESG' , 'Barry Leiba' , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:05:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7D3C9822-6B39-4DCA-83DD-C6C2E30DD0F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at = other > layers in the stack are out of scope. > END >=20 > Only Jari prefers the original text (-00 version).=20 >=20 > So if Jari can live with Barry's proposal, maybe we can move on with = that one. ... > I think the important message we want to convey is, we will not work = on authentication and authorization for application protocols like OMA = DM, transport protocols like SMS /USSD etc. To clarify my position, I have been commenting as someone interested on = this topic. About things that I would be willing to spend my time on = around this WG. I do not think it would be appropriate for me to use my = AD powers to force changes related to my preferences into the charter = unless it is seriously broken. Group consensus should be the rule. So if = I'm in the minority, feel free to ignore me :-) In any case, I fully agree with what you said above about OMA DM, USSD, = and so on; I do not want to work on those. But I do believe that if we are creating an authorisation solution for = constrained devices, it should have at least a little bit of generality = in it. And I do not believe achieving this would be hard. Here's an = example of something I would like to do: the basic setup in the working = group is to be able to authorise a to instruct, say, a = to maintain a particular temperature. This is a very = transport-related way of looking at the problem, however. I would like = to do things like sending the a that = is signed by the , and authorising the to trust = information from that source. So my interests are not just in transport = layer security, but in data object security. You can imagine various = ways of implementing this, say S/MIME or JOSE signed pieces of = information delivered over CoAP or HTTP. The details don't really matter = at this point, but a reason I wanted to participate in this work was to = make sure that our authz designs can do that later. Can I live with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how to = interpret it. For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was able = to do authz for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or JOSE, would that = fall inside our outside what the text says? I think probably inside, = because the second sentence allows looking at other security protocols = as long as the focus is maintained.=20 If I can suggest an edit, I'd say: NEW Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained. The group is scoped to work only on the web protocols and data carried within them. END Jari --Apple-Mail=_7D3C9822-6B39-4DCA-83DD-C6C2E30DD0F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTe0T7AAoJEM80gCTQU46qgRcP/36b8BkqcTfxGeojumm2tn5H zpkB5HGeGclJE8cFxzZrppfflIvOuYJwxl6/oTe33X8wSKP6alxH87IA4F/nK4Al Erf17KKac9xGBXMfXAu+YapjjrEdqLmnge2bL0XU12zQrK2MGmlVhRIYbbuOBg7I oyik1sfBp1q7s/LQfhoEMUaXOBsaMowy3+s4U8tZ6NHL5IKACX4ZJtXht6pPBgG6 k6dapp13qyv9AnLpfWy1Z+jivSKITN5oKg0p+SkFSnyO2UjxwkgDzBS+fLIRQCUG SNKrWM7bZBpULHJRtF9VMgSXX9ttCC4Am4pDjdzcGsCvUEXtlUDh3ag4iEXUmEE7 iu7Da5TnIp7zigD6q4S4/lJNzyMHECwnfOe+Nmgagtm2P9WXcNSHa4CMhhIWWhoF Ac9XTucY9bd8U2AubIgU0xiO/2Q1IOTfep25Z7BbIt9kLNfppfEEYiURBXrVS9HG HaO0zg/PdNOSV2uC5ZTSUS0KdoAUUS3VWuzKSRMETrPCmD3k/VvefHHfprky3h9n PqgL8gwSsZ8dxewBg9coJFeWkauxlj3jpxWhTuB5RI62mJh+mh8epGwZPC3PZWxE xJRIwwwrMuKC4xruhvGyiUBGfulCL6ccuzwZJxyhhSFhGS4LG/YA6y/BEEX314jB YPNK35nwMOs+5p+bVJcJ =P5W+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7D3C9822-6B39-4DCA-83DD-C6C2E30DD0F6-- From nobody Tue May 20 06:48:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACFD1A06EF; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqrN8Liw2ozo; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-x22d.google.com (mail-qc0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F6B31A06DA; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id i8so722642qcq.4 for ; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/7DkvKZEXH5OGR819VnePBHGMs+DEbN4N3ZF5tikda4=; b=cR57ngQurvkjcUm4Tzph8w805YuFHDy7pkK1Edt8TmggO1BPqzuRqtGJ5pONgXW/O0 fmFzKWZ7UEZKA7prnoehkNcFwGP1x8vjtrZX+S0kVQ4fS0ztSg+8Mi6H7vG4uudnkX8Y EQfJFw4+JMtD1kDVk9z5CdPPxQMATmix4wlLObDzDz9wjfpaw+r1RI+fFYHUkNgwkTJO EVTeNChpxKDAEGt8TiFfsE3/f6nC53muKJN88ILXQLO7bSbZzjXonXy/+vaxrZ6gM4kr OqOui814j2B0LdI/0Km+Qieeb5Z2koIFBNwSEbDIg+BruFQ/vrboHSQxc8M8HKJd3U6B nK6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.93.2 with SMTP id c2mr53424328qge.53.1400593731669; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.99.1 with HTTP; Tue, 20 May 2014 06:48:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <66845998-8E3B-41A4-97FD-AB7AABD1EFE3@piuha.net> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <66845998-8E3B-41A4-97FD-AB7AABD1EFE3@piuha.net> Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:48:51 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zEWY9z01ZUYKddhFg_eFkxE95ac Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Jari Arkko Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/GbEuf1JSRtD1vWa6FJbZJ1z-7rY Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= , The IESG , Likepeng , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 13:48:53 -0000 > Can I live with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how > to interpret it. For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was > able to do authz for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or > JOSE, would that fall inside our outside what the text says? I think > probably inside, because the second sentence allows looking at > other security protocols as long as the focus is maintained. > > If I can suggest an edit, I'd say: > > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. The group is scoped to work only on the web > protocols and data carried within them. > END For what it's worth, I like Jari's adjustment. Barry From nobody Wed May 21 05:37:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEAC1A045E; Wed, 21 May 2014 05:37:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id unP13M6ePB6G; Wed, 21 May 2014 05:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailscan1.extendcp.co.uk (mailscan26.extendcp.co.uk [176.32.226.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75E251A0672; Wed, 21 May 2014 05:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mailscan5.hi.local) by mailscan-g65.hi.local with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wn5lt-0006O4-1j; Wed, 21 May 2014 13:37:25 +0100 Received: from lb1.hi.local ([10.0.1.197] helo=mail41.extendcp.co.uk) by mailscan5.hi.local with esmtps (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wn5ls-00054e-Ut; Wed, 21 May 2014 13:37:25 +0100 Received: from host81-132-242-251.range81-132.btcentralplus.com ([81.132.242.251] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1Wn5ll-0008Dh-Rp; Wed, 21 May 2014 13:37:18 +0100 Message-ID: <537C9E52.5060904@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:38:42 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barry Leiba , Jari Arkko References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <66845998-8E3B-41A4-97FD-AB7AABD1EFE3@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060009080503020900080103" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Extend-Src: mailout Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/LJqcYyfRAE5w-DJ7dzSpkJYGLZ8 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Selander?= , The IESG , Likepeng , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 12:37:35 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060009080503020900080103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like it too and it captures the sentiment of the charter as I see it. Robert On 20/05/2014 2:48 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: >> Can I live with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how >> to interpret it. For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was >> able to do authz for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or >> JOSE, would that fall inside our outside what the text says? I think >> probably inside, because the second sentence allows looking at >> other security protocols as long as the focus is maintained. >> >> If I can suggest an edit, I'd say: >> >> NEW >> Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. >> Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary >> focus is maintained. The group is scoped to work only on the web >> protocols and data carried within them. >> END > For what it's worth, I like Jari's adjustment. > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > --------------ms060009080503020900080103 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix GzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UE ChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGlj YXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoC ggEBAJKEhFtLV5jUXi+LpOFAyKNTWF9mZfEyTvefMn1V0HhMVbdClOD5J3EHxcZppLkyxPFA GpDMJ1Zifxe1cWmu5SAb5MtjXmDKokH2auGj/7jfH0htZUOMKi4rYzh337EXrMLaggLW1DJq 1GdvIBOPXDX65VSAr9hxCh03CgJQU2yVHakQFLSZlVkSMf8JotJM3FLb3uJAAVtIaN3FSrTg 7SQfOq9xXwfjrL8UO7AlcWg99A/WF1hGFYE8aIuLgw9teiFX5jSw2zJ+40rhpVJyZCaRTqWS D//gsWD9Gm9oUZljjRqLpcxCm5t9ImPTqaD8zp6Q30QZ9FxbNboW86eb/8ECAwEAAaOCAUsw ggFHMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFImCZ33EnSZwAEu0UEh83j2uBG59MB0GA1UdDgQWBBR6E04AdFvG eGNkJ8Ev4qBbvHnFezAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNV HSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwWAYDVR0fBFEwTzBNoEugSYZHaHR0cDovL2NybC51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tL1VUTi1VU0VSRmlyc3QtQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRFbWFpbC5jcmwwdAYI KwYBBQUHAQEEaDBmMD0GCCsGAQUFBzAChjFodHRwOi8vY3J0LnVzZXJ0cnVzdC5jb20vVVRO QWRkVHJ1c3RDbGllbnRfQ0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1 c3QuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCF1r54V1VtM39EUv5C1QaoAQOAivsNsv1Kv/av QUn1G1rF0q0bc24+6SZ85kyYwTAo38v7QjyhJT4KddbQPTmGZtGhm7VNm2+vKGwdr+XqdFqo 2rHA8XV6L566k3nK/uKRHlZ0sviN0+BDchvtj/1gOSBH+4uvOmVIPJg9pSW/ve9g4EnlFsjr P0OD8ODuDcHTzTNfm9C9YGqzO/761Mk6PB/tm/+bSTO+Qik5g+4zaS6CnUVNqGnagBsePdIa XXxHmaWbCG0SmYbWXVcHG6cwvktJRLiQfsrReTjrtDP6oDpdJlieYVUYtCHVmdXgQ0BCML7q peeU0rD+83X5f27nMIIGLjCCBRagAwIBAgIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQUFADCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4G A1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENP TU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xMTA5 MDIwMDAwMDBaFw0xNDA5MDEyMzU5NTlaMIIBNzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxEDAOBgNVBBETB1dG NCA0V0ExFzAVBgNVBAgTDldlc3QgWW9ya3NoaXJlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlXYWtlZmllbGQxFDAS BgNVBAkTC0dyYW5nZSBNb29yMR8wHQYDVQQJExY4OSBHcmVlbmZpZWxkIENyZXNjZW50MRcw FQYDVQQKEw5HcmlkbWVyZ2UgTHRkLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrSXNzdWVkIHRocm91Z2ggR3JpZG1l cmdlIEx0ZC4gRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFp bDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUm9iZXJ0IENyYWdpZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbcm9iZXJ0LmNyYWdp ZUBncmlkbWVyZ2UuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEArcThqvLe WU1Q1ZJmnb+2UQSwOQKWok3A1Mwk582AdvwaAQyBFliPyJ0kXJqtwNBoZvk+3WJr0QA5ZRr+ J0x3sXVpcxadojP2HNzy1gsgDtIGG8ltoU4vmX1A8BTlOIUT+Pg8p/bSruxV0vz0CR8ho2hs R0Zi5vU+rQKNmbgufbkWhlQnMEYjknemscLQfw1YZz90ta67doNDujFy6+X6I06HpjudgMYx 8bdsNS5xVFFwuBA1eqNQra+xLzhCOeX9PPB/zK68qdNhrni3WPYG9EhSt4Dzk+xIz9hj7wrU ZIVXDTPsY8qbUSBVpwmzI5lCHPgzurH1OK7WwgpDSsl5pwIDAQABo4IB1TCCAdEwHwYDVR0j BBgwFoAUehNOAHRbxnhjZCfBL+KgW7x5xXswHQYDVR0OBBYEFBCOXNH+lDm8U9gy3b3bRvrx vKgrMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwME BggrBgEFBQcDAjBGBgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1o dHRwczovL3NlY3VyZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBXBgNVHR8EUDBOMEygSqBIhkZodHRwOi8v Y3JsLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbS9DT01PRE9DbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVt YWlsQ0EuY3JsMIGIBggrBgEFBQcBAQR8MHowUgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29t b2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5j cnQwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAmBgNVHREEHzAdgRty b2JlcnQuY3JhZ2llQGdyaWRtZXJnZS5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAD6b/O0LkPav kR4Znoqxg0Ad7M3duDm4uzfrlX4ecgq56Ccdwd+3Tayz7Ewej30woVMmTKkA/NKRaCd0wVM9 8seF/oZjXKO7o1SH27igRnGSWjCoWXsdwJGfZbYnvcIIhhsxJoCPNbeSR7C0PAFDKsP3xrJy MHMljIJsoRbZu/fnYNyFWh9OXf7fYJOGmKDKAhSabUGfhY7umvU9d/YTqo02Q6YzC7d4zPNG 1a75AuHSEchf6GdKqycG38I5y9jlDaYfXspoS3PlTNCIeZONbOSMZgftnNEVKq+SWytFqyG/ 8+dwpm/a12KMex5J8iHwaUKj++2O2rAFNjDDqXpeEYoxggQZMIIEFQIBATCBqDCBkzELMAkG A1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9y ZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQg QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIQXDFQ28QtqMuYch5f2nTvZjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIICRTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xNDA1MjExMjM4NDJaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBS8+EZdTSsQRgdlAIVsaRndSVCwJTBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG5BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgaswgagwgZMxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMTkwNwYDVQQDEzBDT01PRE8gQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUg RW1haWwgQ0ECEFwxUNvELajLmHIeX9p072YwgbsGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGroIGoMIGTMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVu dCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhBcMVDbxC2oy5hyHl/adO9m MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAIiB/r4tk1S6LXfGInUC+HiQziTp2BI3FcGGVbP5cP5cwP32 FYM8rc0fdxQRvF6cDg/qd6+gd5+YGzd0SXGdOTgtfMssFMPQD+UuhmBF0cjKWoeobxQ1PbYb Kvts9/NxRyA5lmw+ZKfhCdHJYaKkybQXq/zyb2gvpoXG1lmh+YLfcqMu/p118EiuZZ3I42ic Pr9eXpXRV5CvsTFego555mdbU8FcPf7HYOXP30Gj6hZDNPkpJG6z0kWLz8lZUm1P5atxjrQd 6BetbiOo0lmKcAKhM/Ei4w4GSyF7ZdyOurRwpONFgHgmDNwWsQcJ08/8CNWUvz6DflNlEPqM ZqTIgioAAAAAAAA= --------------ms060009080503020900080103-- From nobody Wed May 21 09:04:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A87A1A039B for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, MANGLED_WRLDWD=2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XfIU-rdOiyRe for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE0B1A034A for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF791E59C8 for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c9a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F5OEJUEsOXFb for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.21] (c-69-181-66-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.66.243]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F340C1E59C6 for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:03:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexa Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <746A3254-D6EC-46BE-A842-63EDAD8B0ACA@amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 09:04:25 -0700 To: ace@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/uGuE8WaRlPOPvx462egiMPmttS4 Subject: [Ace] Invitation to Participate in IETF 90 Bits-N-Bites: Internet of Things X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 16:04:27 -0000 Bits-N-Bites at IETF 90 in Toronto will focus on the Internet of Things, = and the IETF invites you and your organization to participate! The arrival of Things connected to the Internet in recent years has = given life to new applications in both the consumer and industrial = market segments. We are surrounded by products that utilize connectivity = and a growing enthusiasm suggests imminent and impressive deployments: = billions of new connected devices are expected by year 2020. In the = industrial world, wide spread wireless sensoring devices that collect = data and measurements will move us into the next phase of process = optimization. This will require the combination of the best of = Information Technology (IT) and Operational Technology (OT), forming the = IT/OT convergence. When deploying multi-stage Thing topologies, two trends compete: IP = protocols are enhanced and transformed into less end-to-end protocols = (address translation, header compression, 'mesh under' routing and more) = and, alternatively, existing IP protocols are reduced to their bare = minimum such as to fit in reduced Things (reduced CPU frequency and = number of transistors, dimensions and energy consumption). IETF 90 demonstrations should exhibit recent developments of IP = protocols for IoT networks (6lowpan adaptation layers, MANET and RPL = routing protocols, 6tsch time-constrained communications, CoAP app-layer = protocols) as well as demonstrations of the tendency of bringing the = known IPv6 as close as possible to the Thing - minimum set of unmodified = IPv6, Neighbor Discovery, DHCP, HTTP, IKEv2. Demonstrations of = geo-location uses in and for IP networking and the surrounding privacy = issues are also welcome. Does your organization want to reach 1,200 Internet engineers and = demonstrate your IoT technologies and usage of IETF protocols? This is = your opportunity to show leading industry professionals the latest and = greatest of what you do in a social and interactive setting. Examples of demos include, but are not limited, to: =95 home automation controller using SNMP for HVAC and ambient = temperature, electricity counter; =95 industrial-grade Wireless Sensor Network products; =95 scalable wireless designs and existing deployments; =95 IPv6 end-to-end and backbone interconnection; =95 tablet summarizing status of widespread devices through = heterogeneous link connections; =95 smart belt collecting body information with low-energy communication = protocols; =95 vehicle interior connected designs, vehicle-to-road sensor-based = communications; =95 sensor-assisted autonomous mobile Things (mono-, bi-, quad- wheeled = or propelled devices); =95 vehicular communications (e.g. dead-reckoning enhancements for = enhanced GPS localization, geo-dissemination); =95 smartphone applications relying on geo-localization. There many ways to configure your demo, such as:=20 =95 Things deployed on a table, relying on local connections and = alternatively exhibiting remote access across the Internet; =95 a poster describing a demo; =95 video sequence showing a lab demonstration. For information about IETF 90 Bits-N-Bites, please see = http://www.ietf.org/meeting/90/90-bits-n-bites.html or send email to = bnbsg@ietf.org. Regards, Alexa ---------- Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF 48377 Fremont Blvd., Suite 117, Fremont, CA 94538 Phone: +1.510.492.4089 / Fax: +1.510.492.4001 Email: amorris@amsl.com Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS) Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning www.amsl.com From nobody Wed May 21 09:36:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774CE1A0502; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8FUdhP0m8xz; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com (mail-lb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E40AD1A0481; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id z11so1734293lbi.41 for ; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=pSUh4t3WxMoqLyACdd+vLzev1LEJ8D+1/TzkWj429TE=; b=u3tYVCl7ig+nNBxsWq5AN12/GT5Udq+NGSAoyVcL12tkcwJi5XZY8iZtTt55xY9zNj ldIGLr0OEc3WfkTgow9QGAzLE5YT+2RLrT/NW3qU8LccK6vfTJ1EeHsFnpqxZ/w/k8Il FoK+aDsmPA2lsHNFixmJE3NghfqgJ4Rix7H5nTMJzC9pa2V668qF049umdW5fmcKogWL QAh1zMFzjnlr4ulqmHUUHPodQfVgDswGatF6RyQxYEPObtRx8FhHVOhCCC04BVYX9wGu eu7ds/kJ8WGPAZYGTgdf0aeb8DmKQpjYC2bpFL+54bxQvK5EYk82/rN0tHvIygVP44xz TURQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.157.162 with SMTP id wn2mr36255894lbb.38.1400690205535; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.27.106 with HTTP; Wed, 21 May 2014 09:36:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <537C9E52.5060904@gridmerge.com> References: <20140513113751.2586.57851.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29491@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <005501cf6eda$60c8ec20$225ac460$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B29578@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <316A10E3-5AC5-4CF2-B90F-9ED32AE6BE82@piuha.net> <4A5C6102-3FF9-4450-AD17-D948E6934525@piuha.net> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3895E@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <003601cf72df$e73a12d0$b5ae3870$@olddog.co.uk> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B3AE51@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <66845998-8E3B-41A4-97FD-AB7AABD1EFE3@piuha.net> <537C9E52.5060904@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 11:36:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/g2yjczangh23gcCnVYWeC7cJ-S4 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= , Jari Arkko , The IESG , Likepeng , "ace@ietf.org" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 16:36:49 -0000 Me too as long as it allows all architectures in draft-tschofenig-ace-overview. Behcet On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Robert Cragie wrote: > I like it too and it captures the sentiment of the charter as I see it. > > Robert > > > On 20/05/2014 2:48 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: >>> >>> Can I live with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how >>> to interpret it. For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was >>> able to do authz for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or >>> JOSE, would that fall inside our outside what the text says? I think >>> probably inside, because the second sentence allows looking at >>> other security protocols as long as the focus is maintained. >>> >>> If I can suggest an edit, I'd say: >>> >>> NEW >>> Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. >>> Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary >>> focus is maintained. The group is scoped to work only on the web >>> protocols and data carried within them. >>> END >> >> For what it's worth, I like Jari's adjustment. >> >> Barry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ace mailing list >> Ace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > From malishav@gmail.com Thu May 22 03:52:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42D71A0181; Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MsFp17Q62S2Q; Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D71601A017F; Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id f8so9034413wiw.14 for ; Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:date:subject:cc:to; bh=t+f0dEiCeMHrilOKHZOustn9miIqT3XaHtmKmZVjQ68=; b=KSqU6eOD7MaRdb3I8ptXxf2jLk+Igkyey5XiC0ViuiSJqqtwuvwlruddpeck807CPJ ZNZCG5ffeWTdFihvct4asJgxtzw+BvJmXwhnURGESOxEBGpvEpXUAtidCExPsw4kEW06 ptVZRfAvuGoUZ4bI6WKIxoGXv53k9wFvhSxpQZ5192vlaj6dom03ZVN49UAH3AQnohP0 YgsU8wPPSfTa8vvHnoalgxPQPTuMy4JFjf6aHf3J4kCoxPrlQlWVI+kAW0PJgCD5VZHY GsgzWnggyxgfQOeieDTNFyBNS2Znk1sbubjJGPlRWugOIHfIH8nQughywNcbPheudonF Xkhw== X-Received: by 10.180.108.146 with SMTP id hk18mr7349972wib.42.1400755964577; Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.18.46.137] (LPuteaux-656-01-251-120.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr. [82.127.112.120]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gp15sm26277088wjc.10.2014.05.22.03.52.32 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 22 May 2014 03:52:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: =?utf-8?Q?Mali=C5=A1a_Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87?= From: "=?utf-8?Q?Mali=C5=A1a_Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87?=" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9471810B-538F-4D6A-BC13-FEBA26645159" Message-Id: <1715C7B6-DC74-447B-B66D-B942D50FE933@imag.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 12:52:28 +0200 To: Jari Arkko , "ace@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/TTmns_uCQuO9FJhNUR_gBVC_zbc X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 May 2014 05:10:41 -0700 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= , The IESG , Likepeng , Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 11:48:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9471810B-538F-4D6A-BC13-FEBA26645159 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello everyone, I would just like to stress our strong support for the =E2=80=9Cdata = object security=E2=80=9D approach to authorization in constrained = environments. At the University of Grenoble and STMicroelectronics, we have on-going = research efforts in this direction and benefits seem very appealing =E2=80= =94 first in terms of possible optimizations leading to efficient = operation on constrained devices, but also in terms of the implicit = support for proxies and multicast. I refer everyone interested to our DTLS-based architecture named OSCAR = (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.7799) that will be presented during IEEE = WoWMoM in June. Regards, Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 > From: Jari Arkko > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: = (with BLOCK) > Date: 20 May 2014 14:05:15 GMT+2 > To: Likepeng > Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , G=C3=B6ran Selander = , 'The IESG' , 'Barry Leiba' = , "ace@ietf.org" >=20 >=20 >=20 >> NEW >> Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. >> Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary >> focus is maintained. Other application protocols and protocols at = other >> layers in the stack are out of scope. >> END >>=20 >> Only Jari prefers the original text (-00 version).=20 >>=20 >> So if Jari can live with Barry's proposal, maybe we can move on with = that one. > ... >> I think the important message we want to convey is, we will not work = on authentication and authorization for application protocols like OMA = DM, transport protocols like SMS /USSD etc. >=20 > To clarify my position, I have been commenting as someone interested = on this topic. About things that I would be willing to spend my time on = around this WG. I do not think it would be appropriate for me to use my = AD powers to force changes related to my preferences into the charter = unless it is seriously broken. Group consensus should be the rule. So if = I'm in the minority, feel free to ignore me :-) >=20 > In any case, I fully agree with what you said above about OMA DM, = USSD, and so on; I do not want to work on those. >=20 > But I do believe that if we are creating an authorisation solution for = constrained devices, it should have at least a little bit of generality = in it. And I do not believe achieving this would be hard. Here's an = example of something I would like to do: the basic setup in the working = group is to be able to authorise a to instruct, say, a = to maintain a particular temperature. This is a very = transport-related way of looking at the problem, however. I would like = to do things like sending the a that = is signed by the , and authorising the to trust = information from that source. So my interests are not just in transport = layer security, but in data object security. You can imagine various = ways of implementing this, say S/MIME or JOSE signed pieces of = information delivered over CoAP or HTTP. The details don't really matter = at this point, but a reason I wanted to participate in this work was to = make sure that our authz designs can do that later. >=20 > Can I live with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how to = interpret it. For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was able = to do authz for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or JOSE, would that = fall inside our outside what the text says? I think probably inside, = because the second sentence allows looking at other security protocols = as long as the focus is maintained.=20 >=20 > If I can suggest an edit, I'd say: >=20 > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary > focus is maintained. The group is scoped to work only on the web > protocols and data carried within them. > END >=20 > Jari --Apple-Mail=_9471810B-538F-4D6A-BC13-FEBA26645159 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello = everyone,

I would just like to stress our strong = support for the =E2=80=9Cdata object security=E2=80=9D approach to = authorization in constrained environments.

At = the University of Grenoble and STMicroelectronics, we have on-going = research efforts in this direction and benefits seem very appealing =E2=80= =94 first in terms of possible optimizations leading to efficient = operation on constrained devices, but also in terms of the implicit = support for proxies and multicast.

I refer = everyone interested to our DTLS-based architecture named OSCAR (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.7799= ) that will be presented during IEEE WoWMoM in = June.

Regards,
Mali=C5=A1a = Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87

From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on = charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK)
Date: 20 May 2014 14:05:15 GMT+2
To: Likepeng <likepeng@huawei.com>
<= div style=3D"margin: 0px;">Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, G=C3=B6ra= n Selander <goran.selander@ericsson.com>, 'The IESG' <iesg@ietf.org>, 'Barry Leiba' = <barryleiba@computer.org>, = "ace@ietf.org" <ace@ietf.org>



NEW
Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and = HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as = long as the primary
focus is maintained.  Other application = protocols and protocols at other
layers in the stack are out of = scope.
END

Only Jari prefers the original text (-00 = version). 

So if Jari can live with Barry's proposal, maybe = we can move on with that one.
...
I think the important message we want to convey is, we = will not work on authentication and authorization for application = protocols like OMA DM, transport protocols like SMS /USSD = etc.

To clarify my position, I have been commenting = as someone interested on this topic. About things that I would be = willing to spend my time on around this WG. I do not think it would be = appropriate for me to use my AD powers to force changes related to my = preferences into the charter unless it is seriously broken. Group = consensus should be the rule. So if I'm in the minority, feel free to = ignore me :-)

In any case, I fully agree with what you said above = about OMA DM, USSD, and so on; I do not want to work on = those.

But I do believe that if we are creating an authorisation = solution for constrained devices, it should have at least a little bit = of generality in it. And I do not believe achieving this would be hard. = Here's an example of something I would like to do: the basic setup in = the working group is to be able to authorise a <trusted device> to = instruct, say, a <thermostat> to maintain a particular = temperature. This is a very transport-related way of looking at the = problem, however. I would like to do things like sending the = <thermostat> a <temperature schedule> that is signed by the = <home owner>, and authorising the <thermostat> to trust = information from that source. So my interests are not just in transport = layer security, but in data object security. You can imagine various = ways of implementing this, say S/MIME or JOSE signed pieces of = information delivered over CoAP or HTTP. The details don't really matter = at this point, but a reason I wanted to participate in this work was to = make sure that our authz designs can do that later.

Can I live = with the above text? Not sure, because I'm not sure how to interpret it. = For instance, if the WG produced a solution that was able to do authz = for CoAP/HTTP when used with DTLS, TLS, or JOSE, would that fall inside = our outside what the text says? I think probably inside, because the = second sentence allows looking at other security protocols as long as = the focus is maintained. 

If I can suggest an edit, I'd = say:

NEW
Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with = DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as long as = the primary
focus is maintained.  The group is scoped to work = only on the web
protocols and data carried within = them.
END

Jari
= --Apple-Mail=_9471810B-538F-4D6A-BC13-FEBA26645159-- From nobody Thu May 22 11:39:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC971A0293 for ; Thu, 22 May 2014 11:38:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F9WJAoFQDh89 for ; Thu, 22 May 2014 11:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 082D51A02BD for ; Thu, 22 May 2014 11:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4987920011; Thu, 22 May 2014 14:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 1B93D63B0B; Thu, 22 May 2014 14:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079D063B09; Thu, 22 May 2014 14:38:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: =?us-ascii?Q?=3D=3Futf-8=3FQ=3FMali=3DC5=3DA1a=5FVu=3DC4=3D8Dini=3DC4?= =?us-ascii?Q?=3D87=3F=3D?= , "ace\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <1715C7B6-DC74-447B-B66D-B942D50FE933@imag.fr> References: <1715C7B6-DC74-447B-B66D-B942D50FE933@imag.fr> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/0iClMX9rfuo_5_x-insjoMIopAk Subject: [Ace] use of object security X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 18:38:58 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subject was: Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-ace-00-00: (with BLOCK) Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 wrote: > I refer everyone interested to our DTLS-based architecture named OSCAR > (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.7799) that will be presented during IEEE > WoWMoM in June. Very interesting. I think maybe your figure 1 appears too early, or appears without enough explanation, or perhaps is too detailed for that point in the paper. You write that "The relation between j'th access secret Sj and i'th resource Ri is dependent on authorization policies and the desired level of confidentiality." I guess the point is that the one can make Sj a "group" key, or distribute it on per-end-point basis, based upon the level of audit and paranoia. The whole thing is very similar to the pre-IKE IPsec SKIP mechanism, including the lack of crypto parameter negotiation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Key-Management_for_Internet_Protocol http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipsec-skip-06 You write earlier: > Due to the physical constraints, the number of supported cryptographic > ciphers is limited. Indeed, constrained devices often have a single > supported cipher suite (selected at the compile time). This fact reverses > the paradigm encountered in the Internet where one of the security concer= ns > during the handshake is the downgrade attack (the attacker forces two > parties to use the weakest common and later: > The request contains header carrying preferred content types. If capable, > server responds with the content supported by the client. Therefore, to > solve the interoperability issues, we require an additional accept option > carrying supported ciphers. I am not yet convinced that: a) the downgrade attack can be ignored. b) that this permits us to incrementally deploy new cryptographic protocols as the ones we have become weak over a multi-decade deployment period of many IoT. I am pleased that OSCAR is not shy about asymmetric operations. I am reminded of Jari's temperature sensor. (You bring security to Jari's 4-bit microcontroller multicast temperature sender...) but, I think it would be easier to think of a light switch. Imagine a light bulb receives a message from some sender that it should turn on. But the light bulb is *already* turned on. In that context, there may be no reason to always validate the asymmetric signature. This is similar to how the replay counter in IPsec works: if we already saw that packet, we can tell that without bothering to authenticate it. This assumes no active, on-path, attacker will bother to change an "off" signal into a "on" signal (invalidating the signature). Such an attacker is easily caught, and so the attack is very unlikely to succeed. Is your contiki code available? You write at the end: > However, as it (IPsec) resides in the Operating System kernel, it is > impractical for typical IoT applications. 1) There is no requirement that IPsec be in the kernel, the reason people put it there is so that it can act as service for layer-4 protocols, but if you want to re-implement those protocols (UDP is trivial) in userspace, one can easily have IPsec in an application using a raw IP socket. 2) when implemented over UDP, one can even have it in application library. 3) most IoT operating systems have no concept of a "kernel" anyway, so the concern is really only on the more capable endsystems (the smartphones and desktop systems) which want to talk to the IoT devices. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBU35ENoCLcPvd0N1lAQJl9ggAp1/seJL5daVCc4wwBhHZHlpboLYehUqj uTj277zpWS+b1afVo/AZv59EyDGkpVb4oY7Goo5GlJXo7bPml3vAjATPXSp9rl5y cZaEGsfBbIgkgML1gbzoIs7X5NnOibI5SU/KTA+McqhvI2ZrLg2lTFvl4SZRL32A mlfDXePQZov2sxx2TwkHtfHNlKUAGlSp32eIutciZMONZ2dtasIwnn3JrqkaTR8G IIf4UrXIeiA3Ih0KNU39ECQ0GfsoSlaJ4sIlxaauy7kjrWK9HJeUmqwdSnB1LX+C IjKrRrHIPLXREu3LfE2tmtDX5dkUxMdsM1AQgAS+Mgu7NfqGqhmmgA== =r5oM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri May 23 09:44:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C771A0743 for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 09:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n-SRIzhp_Ukm for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rominette.imag.fr (mx2.imag.fr [IPv6:2001:660:5301:59::17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 090CD1A024A for ; Fri, 23 May 2014 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from globule.imag.fr (globule.imag.fr [129.88.34.238]) by rominette.imag.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4NGi9qT010765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 23 May 2014 18:44:09 +0200 Received: from stradioti.imag.fr (stradioti.imag.fr [129.88.49.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by globule.imag.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s4NGiBrr004793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 23 May 2014 18:44:11 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Malisa Vucinic In-Reply-To: <3877.1400783928@sandelman.ca> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 18:44:12 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1715C7B6-DC74-447B-B66D-B942D50FE933@imag.fr> <3877.1400783928@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson , ace@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (rominette.imag.fr [129.88.30.17]); Fri, 23 May 2014 18:44:10 +0200 (CEST) X-IMAG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact MI2S MIM for more information X-MailScanner-ID: s4NGi9qT010765 X-IMAG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-IMAG-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-IMAG-MailScanner-From: malisa.vucinic@imag.fr MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1401468253.75562@Kbm7ZPjTJ3XzUbTYSxMr/A Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/q78r-Y2xGfFSfJFEupO3U-zykPg Subject: Re: [Ace] use of object security X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:44:21 -0000 Hi Michael, Thanks for your time to read the paper. My answers are inline. Regards, Malisa Vucinic On 22 May 2014, at 20:38, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > subject was: > Subject: Re: [Ace] Adrian Farrel's Block on = charter-ietf-ace-00-00: > (with BLOCK) >=20 > Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 wrote: >> I refer everyone interested to our DTLS-based architecture named = OSCAR >> (http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.7799) that will be presented during IEEE >> WoWMoM in June. >=20 > Very interesting. > I think maybe your figure 1 appears too early, or appears without = enough > explanation, or perhaps is too detailed for that point in the paper. Yes, we get that remark often=E2=80=A6 The goal with fig 1 was to = present at an early stage in the paper all that we aim to support and the design idea of having = the constrained device (producer) agnostic of the response type. It could be a classical = GET=20 request/response pair, response to a multicast request or an = asynchronous update to observers, the device needs to locally monitor the physical = quantities and anticipate the preparation of signed objects, which are then encrypted on a per = response basis=20 (encapsulated in encrypted objects). You can then have the signed objects traverse the application level = gateways and=20 achieve nice end-to-end security properties even when the information is = stored=20 somewhere in the Cloud.=20 >=20 > You write that "The relation between j'th access secret Sj > and i'th resource Ri is dependent on authorization policies and the > desired level of confidentiality." >=20 > I guess the point is that the one can make Sj a "group" key, or > distribute it on per-end-point basis, based upon the level of audit > and paranoia. =20 In terms of the communication security, yes, one could make Sj a group = key, with group members being the end points. =46rom the authorization folks, however, I = get the impression that they would like to have access control with a granularity of = RESTful resource=20 so we thus have this hybrid approach in sense that we do not = differentiate between=20 pure communication security and authorization, rather try to approach = both in one go. > The whole thing is very similar to the pre-IKE > IPsec SKIP mechanism, including the lack of crypto parameter = negotiation. > = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Key-Management_for_Internet_Protocol > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipsec-skip-06 SKIP (and particularly multicast extension to SKIP) could fit as 'access = secret' key=20 management scheme of OSCAR which would deprecate the need for secure = unicast channels (DTLS) between the Authorization Server (AS) and each host. In = our model=20 hosts support DTLS (mainly for backwards compatibility with current CoAP = spec) so=20 given the authenticated channels, the key management scheme could be = really=20 simplified with all intelligence residing within AS, and with a simple = push model for=20 key updates over the secure channel. Indeed, the derivation of the master key in SKIP is similar to the = derivation of our per-response encryption key in terms of the replay protection. Note = though that=20 we rely here on how CoAP handles the Message ID used for duplicate = detection=20 so a nice extension (and more appropriate for security usage) would = certainly be the counter mechanism of SKIP.=20 >=20 > You write earlier: >=20 >> Due to the physical constraints, the number of supported = cryptographic >> ciphers is limited. Indeed, constrained devices often have a single >> supported cipher suite (selected at the compile time). This fact = reverses >> the paradigm encountered in the Internet where one of the security = concerns >> during the handshake is the downgrade attack (the attacker forces two >> parties to use the weakest common >=20 > and later: >=20 >> The request contains header carrying preferred content types. If = capable, >> server responds with the content supported by the client. Therefore, = to >> solve the interoperability issues, we require an additional accept = option >> carrying supported ciphers. >=20 > I am not yet convinced that: > a) the downgrade attack can be ignored. > b) that this permits us to incrementally deploy new cryptographic > protocols as the ones we have become weak over a multi-decade > deployment period of many IoT. Yes, you are right that there is room for the downgrade attack once = devices=20 start supporting multiple ciphers, so in that sense the cipher = negotiation=20 approach in the paper is a bit limiting. Off the top of my head, would it make sense to include the list of = supported ciphers in the certificate of a device, also specifying the default one? = You would need to update the certificate with firmware upgrades introducing = new ciphers but it seems doable? Then the device could use the default = signature algorithm to generate signed objects offline and when needed it would = need to =20 perform online signing (or depending on RAM available, perform offline = signing with multiple ciphers). In the model, we require clients to fetch device (server) certificates = from the AS so=20 client would in that case have a-priori knowledge what ciphers a device = supports. Essentially, this would be reversing the current decision model in terms = that it would be the client who would decide which cipher is going to be = used, but it makes sense with the constrained device and small cipher set on the = other=20 side, no? Then, the client can issue the request with the cipher accept option = simply=20 stating which cipher was chosen. To protect this from downgrade, client = could include in the payload of the request a pre-defined token encrypted from = the derived key (using the chosen cipher), where the derivation procedure = from the paper would need to be extended to include the cipher accept option = field. Does this make sense? >=20 > I am pleased that OSCAR is not shy about asymmetric operations. > I am reminded of Jari's temperature sensor. (You bring security to > Jari's 4-bit microcontroller multicast temperature sender...) > but, I think it would be easier to think of a light switch. >=20 > Imagine a light bulb receives a message from some sender that it = should > turn on. But the light bulb is *already* turned on. In that context, > there may be no reason to always validate the asymmetric signature. > This is similar to how the replay counter in IPsec works: if we = already > saw that packet, we can tell that without bothering to authenticate = it. Yes, in fact I was referring to these kinds of optimizations in my = original post. See bellow. >=20 > This assumes no active, on-path, attacker will bother to change an = "off" > signal into a "on" signal (invalidating the signature). Such an = attacker > is easily caught, and so the attack is very unlikely to succeed. In the model, only an attacker in possession of the group key (access = secret) can get to the signed objects. In that sense, signed objects should = never traverse the network in clear. Coming back to the light bulb, it could locally cache =E2=80=98on=E2=80=99= and =E2=80=98off=E2=80=99 signed objects, upon first validation. For the following receptions of on/off requests, = the light bulb would first need to decrypt the payload with the derived symmetric key = and then check if the received signed object is in cache (already seen packet = from your IPsec example). Now if you have this light bulb and appropriate switch as = hosts in a=20 synchronized network with global time awareness, you could easily add = expiry=20 field to the on/off commands and control for how long the signed objects = can=20 bounce over the network as valid, without overhead of signature = verification. Do you see any concerns here? >=20 > Is your contiki code available? I will get back to you regarding this. >=20 > You write at the end: >> However, as it (IPsec) resides in the Operating System kernel, it is >> impractical for typical IoT applications. >=20 > 1) There is no requirement that IPsec be in the kernel, > the reason people put it there is so that it can act as > service for layer-4 protocols, but if you want to re-implement > those protocols (UDP is trivial) in userspace, one can easily > have IPsec in an application using a raw IP socket. >=20 > 2) when implemented over UDP, one can even have it in application > library. >=20 > 3) most IoT operating systems have no concept of a "kernel" anyway, > so the concern is really only on the more capable endsystems > (the smartphones and desktop systems) which want to talk to > the IoT devices. Thanks for the clarifications, I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of user space = IPsec possibility! >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Mon May 26 01:17:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE681A004C; Mon, 26 May 2014 01:17:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jcbMYM2O_3wE; Mon, 26 May 2014 01:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F3591A0045; Mon, 26 May 2014 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BHF32991; Mon, 26 May 2014 08:17:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:16:37 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.34) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:16:59 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.67]) by SZXEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 26 May 2014 16:16:47 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Likepeng , Kathleen Moriarty , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" Thread-Topic: Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 Thread-Index: AQHPeLrW9teE9ryEO0GmvALEdUzf8A== Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 08:16:47 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.202.9.26] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/geIQssORjI1-zHfi--VR_kJzzqY Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 08:17:23 -0000 SGVsbG8gYWxsLA0KDQpCYXNlZCBvbiByZWNlbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMsIEkgbWFkZSBhIHJldmlz ZWQgY2hhcnRlciBwcm9wb3NhbCwgYXMgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBlbWFpbCwgbm90IG9uIHRo ZSB3ZWJwYWdlIHlldC4gDQoNClBsZWFzZSB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayBhbmQgbGV0IHVzIGtub3cgaWYg eW91IGhhdmUgYW55IGZ1cnRoZXIgY29tbWVudHMuDQoNCkBBZHJpYW4gYW5kIEBCZW5vaXQsIHBs ZWFzZSBjaGVjayBpZiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgdGV4dHMgY2FuIHJlc29sdmUgeW91ciBjb21tZW50 cy4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQpLZXBlbmcNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KQ29tcGFyZWQgd2l0aCBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNl LTAwLTAxIG9uIHRoZSB3ZWJwYWdlLCB0aGUgY2hhbmdlcyBhcmU6DQoNCigxKQlBZGQgb25lIGNs YXJpZmljYXRpb24gc2VudGVuY2UgYWJvdXQgUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmU6DQpPTEQNClRoZSBJ RVRGIGhhcyByZWNlbnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWlu ZWQNCmVudmlyb25tZW50cywgd2hlcmUgbmV0d29yayBub2RlcyBhcmUgbGltaXRlZCBpbiBDUFUs IG1lbW9yeSBhbmQgcG93ZXIuIA0KUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQgZm9y IHN1Y2ggY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQpORVcNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyByZWNl bnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQNCmVudmlyb25t ZW50cywgd2hlcmUgbmV0d29yayBub2RlcyBhcmUgbGltaXRlZCBpbiBDUFUsIG1lbW9yeSBhbmQg cG93ZXIuDQpSRVNUIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBpcyB3aWRlbHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igc3VjaCBjb25zdHJh aW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQpFTkQNCg0KKDIpCVJlbW92ZSDigJxBQUEgcHJvdG9jb2zigJ0g ZnJvbSB0aGUgY2hhcnRlcjoNCk9MRA0KVGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIGEgbG9uZyBoaXN0b3J5IGluIGRl dmVsb3BpbmcgdGhyZWUtcGFydHkgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kDQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHBy b3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRlDQpL ZXJiZXJvcywgdGhlIFB1YmxpYyBLZXkgSW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgKFBLSSksIHRoZSBBdXRoZW50 aWNhdGlvbiwNCkF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gYW5kIEFjY291bnRpbmcgKEFBQSkgaW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1 cmUsIGFuZCB0aGUgV2ViDQpBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIChPQXV0aCkuDQoNCk5FVw0K VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIGEgbG9uZyBoaXN0b3J5IGluIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgdGhyZWUtcGFydHkgYXV0 aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kDQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRlDQpLZXJiZXJvcywgdGhlIFB1YmxpYyBLZXkg SW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgKFBLSSksIGFuZCB0aGUgV2ViIEF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gUHJvdG9jb2wg KE9BdXRoKS4NCkVORA0KDQooMykgQ2xhcmlmeSB0aGUgc2NvcGU6DQpPTEQ6DQpOb3RlIHRoYXQg dGhlIGluaXRpYWwgZm9jdXMgaXMgb24gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4N Ck90aGVyIHNlY3VyaXR5IHByb3RvY29scyBtYXkgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhcyBsb25nIGFzIHRo ZSBwcmltYXJ5IGZvY3VzIGlzIG1haW50YWluZWQuICANCk90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHByb3Rv Y29scyBhbmQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90aGVyIGxheWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2sgYXJlIG91dCBv ZiBzY29wZS4NCg0KTkVXDQpOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGluaXRpYWwgZm9jdXMgaXMgb24gQ29BUCBh bmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4NCk90aGVyIHNlY3VyaXR5IHByb3RvY29scyBtYXkg YmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhcyBsb25nIGFzIHRoZSBwcmltYXJ5IGZvY3VzIGlzIG1haW50YWluZWQu ICANClRoZSBncm91cCBpcyBzY29wZWQgdG8gd29yayBvbmx5IG9uIHRoZSB3ZWIgcHJvdG9jb2xz IGFuZCBkYXRhIGNhcnJpZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZW0uDQpFTkQNCg0KKDQpCVVwZGF0ZSBtaWxlc3Rv bmVzIGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2UgJiByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZG9jdW1lbnQ6DQpPTEQ6DQpKdWwg MjAxNSBTdWJtaXQg4oCcVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHPigJ0gZG9jdW1lbnQgdG8g SUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMuDQoNCk5FVw0KRGVjIDIw MTQgT3B0aW9uYWxseSwgc3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIgZG9jdW1l bnQgdG8gdGhlIElFU0cgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGFuIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgUkZDLg0K RU5EDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0NCkNoYXJ0ZXIgY2hhcnRlci1pZXRmLWFjZS0wMC0wMg0KQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24g YW5kIEF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gZm9yIENvbnN0cmFpbmVkDQpFbnZpcm9ubWVudCAoQUNFKQ0KDQpU aGUgSUVURiBoYXMgcmVjZW50bHkgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgdXNlIGluIGNvbnN0 cmFpbmVkDQplbnZpcm9ubWVudHMsIHdoZXJlIG5ldHdvcmsgbm9kZXMgYXJlIGxpbWl0ZWQgaW4g Q1BVLCBtZW1vcnkgYW5kIHBvd2VyLiANClJFU1QgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGlzIHdpZGVseSB1c2Vk IGZvciBzdWNoIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4NCkl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIG9ic2VydmVk IHRoYXQgSW50ZXJuZXQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGNhbiBiZSBhcHBsaWVkIHRvIHRoZXNlDQpjb25zdHJh aW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMsIG9mdGVuIG9ubHkgcmVxdWlyaW5nIG1pbm9yIHR3ZWFraW5nIGFu ZA0KcHJvZmlsaW5nLiBJbiBvdGhlciBjYXNlcywgbmV3IHByb3RvY29scyBoYXZlIGJlZW4gZGVm aW5lZCB0byBhZGRyZXNzDQp0aGUgc3BlY2lmaWMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIG9mIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVk IGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQW4gZXhhbXBsZSBvZg0Kc3VjaCBhIHByb3RvY29sIGlzIHRoZSBDb25z dHJhaW5lZCBBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBQcm90b2NvbCAoQ29BUCkuDQoNCkFzIGluIG90aGVyIGVudmly b25tZW50cywgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcXVlc3Rpb25zDQphbHNv IGFyaXNlIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIGEgZG9vciBs b2NrIGhhcyB0bw0KYXV0aG9yaXplIHRoZSBwZXJzb24gc2Vla2luZyBhY2Nlc3MgdXNpbmcgYSAi ZGlnaXRhbCBrZXkiLiBXaGVyZSBpcyB0aGUNCmF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcG9saWN5IHN0b3JlZD8g SG93IGRvZXMgdGhlIGRpZ2l0YWwga2V5IGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHdpdGgNCnRoZSBsb2NrPyBEb2Vz IHRoZSBsb2NrIGludGVyYWN0IHdpdGggYW4gYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBzZXJ2ZXIgdG8gb2J0YWlu DQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uPyBIb3cgY2FuIGFjY2VzcyBiZSB0ZW1wb3Jhcmls eSBncmFudGVkIHRvDQpvdGhlciBwZXJzb25zPyBIb3cgY2FuIGFjY2VzcyBiZSByZXZva2VkPyBU aGVzZSB0eXBlcyBvZiBxdWVzdGlvbnMgaGF2ZQ0KYmVlbiBhbnN3ZXJlZCBieSBleGlzdGluZyBw cm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBvdXRzaWRlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkDQplbnZpcm9ubWVudHMs IGhvd2V2ZXIgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGFuZA0KZGlm ZmVyZW50IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBwb3NlIGNoYWxsZW5nZXMgZm9yIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgdmFyaW91 cyBzZWN1cml0eQ0KcHJvdG9jb2xzLiBJbiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUgbmVlZCBhcmlzZXMgZm9y IGEgZHluYW1pYyBhbmQgZmluZSBncmFpbmVkDQphY2Nlc3MgY29udHJvbCBtZWNoYW5pc20sIHdo ZXJlIGNsaWVudHMgYW5kL29yIHJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZlcnMgYXJlDQpjb25zdHJhaW5lZC4NCg0K VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIGEgbG9uZyBoaXN0b3J5IGluIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgdGhyZWUtcGFydHkgYXV0 aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kDQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRlDQpLZXJiZXJvcywgdGhlIFB1YmxpYyBLZXkg SW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgKFBLSSksIGFuZCB0aGUgV2ViDQpBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFByb3RvY29s IChPQXV0aCkuIEFsbCB0aGVzZSBwcm90b2NvbHMgZW5qb3kgd2lkZXNwcmVhZA0KZGVwbG95bWVu dCBvbiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQuIEFsdGhvdWdoIHRoZXkgYWxsIGFpbSB0byBzb2x2ZSBhIHNpbWls YXINCmdvYWwsIGF0IGFuIGFic3RyYWN0IGxldmVsLCB0aGV5IG9mZmVyIHF1aXRlIGRpZmZlcmVu dCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgYW5kDQp1dGlsaXplIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtZXNzYWdlIGV4Y2hhbmdlcy4gVGhl c2UgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgcmVzdWx0IGZyb20gdGhlDQptYWluIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgdXNlIGNhc2Vz IHRoZXkgd2VyZSBkZXNpZ25lZCBmb3IgcmVzcGVjdGl2ZWx5Lg0KDQpSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZGVy aXZlZCBmcm9tIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGUgc3VpdGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgZXhpc3RpbmcN CndvcmsgYXMgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBUaGVzZSBw cm90b2NvbHMsDQpob3dldmVyLCB3ZXJlIG5vdCBvcHRpbWl6ZWQgZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVu dmlyb25tZW50cy4gQWRkaXRpb25hbA0KcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIHRoYXQgbmVlZCB0byBiZSB0YWtl biBpbnRvIGFjY291bnQgYXJlIHRoZSBsYWNrIG9mIGENCnN1aXRhYmxlIHVzZXItaW50ZXJmYWNl IGFuZCB0aGUgaW5hYmlsaXR5IG9mIGVtYmVkZGVkIGRldmljZXMgdG8gY29udGFjdA0KYW4gYXV0 aG9yaXphdGlvbiBzZXJ2ZXIgaW4gcmVhbC10aW1lIHdpdGggZXZlcnkgcmVzb3VyY2UgYWNjZXNz IHJlcXVlc3QNCmR1ZSB0byBpbnRlcm1pdHRlbnQgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5LCBldGMuDQoNClRoaXMg d29ya2luZyBncm91cCB0aGVyZWZvcmUgYWltcyB0byBwcm9kdWNlIGEgc3RhbmRhcmRpemVkIHNv bHV0aW9uIGZvcg0KYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1 dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIChHRVQsIFBVVCwgUE9TVCwgDQpERUxFVEUpIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBp ZGVudGlmaWVkIGJ5IGEgVVJJIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgb24gYSByZXNvdXJjZQ0Kc2VydmVyIGluIGNv bnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQXMgYSBzdGFydGluZyBwb2ludCwgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcN Cmdyb3VwIHdpbGwgYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBhdCBhIHJlc291cmNl IHNlcnZlciBieSBhDQpjbGllbnQgZGV2aWNlIHRha2VzIHBsYWNlIHVzaW5nIENvQVAgYW5kIGlz IHByb3RlY3RlZCBieSBEVExTLiBCb3RoDQpyZXNvdXJjZSBzZXJ2ZXIgYW5kIGNsaWVudCBtYXkg YmUgY29uc3RyYWluZWQuIFRoaXMgYWNjZXNzIHdpbGwgYmUNCm1lZGlhdGVkIGJ5IGFuIGF1dGhv cml6YXRpb24gc2VydmVyLCB3aGljaCBpcyBub3QgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0byBiZQ0KY29uc3RyYWlu ZWQuDQoNCkV4aXN0aW5nIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29s cyB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWQgd2hlcmUNCmFwcGxpY2FibGUgdG8gYnVpbGQgdGhlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVk LWVudmlyb25tZW50IHNvbHV0aW9uLiBUaGlzIHJlcXVpcmVzDQpyZWxldmFudCBzcGVjaWZpY2F0 aW9ucyB0byBiZSByZXZpZXdlZCBmb3Igc3VpdGFiaWxpdHksIHNlbGVjdGluZyBhDQpzdWJzZXQg b2YgdGhlbSBhbmQgcmVzdHJpY3RpbmcgdGhlIG9wdGlvbnMgd2l0aGluIGVhY2ggb2YgdGhlDQpz cGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucy4gU29tZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5LCBob3dldmVyLCBtYXkgbm90IGJlIGF2 YWlsYWJsZSBpbg0KZXhpc3RpbmcgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBpbiB3aGljaCBjYXNlIHRoZSBzb2x1dGlv biBtYXkgYWxzbyBpbnZvbHZlIG5ldw0KcHJvdG9jb2wgd29yay4gTGV2ZXJhZ2luZyBleGlzdGlu ZyB3b3JrIG1lYW5zIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGJlbmVmaXRzDQpmcm9tIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBz ZWN1cml0eSBhbmFseXNpcywgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24sIGFuZCBkZXBsb3ltZW50DQpleHBlcmll bmNlLiBNb3Jlb3ZlciwgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGZlZGVyYXRlZA0KYXV0 aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gd2lsbCBoZWxwIHRvIHN0aW11bGF0ZSB0aGUg ZGVwbG95bWVudA0Kb2YgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZGV2aWNlcyB0aGF0IHByb3ZpZGUgaW5jcmVhc2Vk IHNlY3VyaXR5Lg0KDQpPbmNlIHByb2dyZXNzIGluIGlkZW50aWZ5aW5nIHN1aXRhYmxlIGNhbmRp ZGF0ZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgaGFzIGJlZW4gbWFkZSwNCnRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgdmVy aWZ5IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBhcmUgYWxzbw0KYXBwbGljYWJsZSBiZXlv bmQgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTLCB3aGljaCBhcmUgdGhlIHR3byBtYWluDQpwcm90 b2NvbHMgdGhlIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gZm9yIGFjY2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIElu DQpwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byB1c2UgdGhlIGRldmVsb3BlZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBv dmVyIEhUVFAgYW5kIFRMUw0Kd2lsbCBiZSBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0ZWQuIE5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW5p dGlhbCBmb2N1cyBpcyBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLg0KT3RoZXIg c2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG1heSBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgdGhlIHByaW1h cnkgZm9jdXMgaXMgbWFpbnRhaW5lZC4gIA0KVGhlIGdyb3VwIGlzIHNjb3BlZCB0byB3b3JrIG9u bHkgb24gdGhlIHdlYiBwcm90b2NvbHMgYW5kIGRhdGEgY2FycmllZCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlbS4NCkZ1 cnRoZXJtb3JlLCB0byBndWFyYW50ZWUgc21vb3RoIHRyYW5zaXRpb24sIHRoZQ0KaW50ZWdyYXRp b24gd2l0aCBleGlzdGluZyBkZXBsb3ltZW50cyB3aWxsIGJlIHN0dWRpZWQsIHBhcnRpY3VsYXJs eQ0KY29uY2VybmluZyB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHByb3RvY29sIHRyYW5zbGF0aW9uIHByb3hpZXMuDQoN ClRoaXMgd29yayBkb2VzIG5vdCBtYWtlIHRoZSBhc3N1bXB0aW9uIHRoYXQgdGhlIHBhcnR5IG9m ZmVyaW5nDQphcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBsYXllciBzZXJ2aWNlcyBpcyBhbHdheXMgdGhlIHNhbWUgcGFy dHkgb2ZmZXJpbmcgbmV0d29yaw0KYWNjZXNzIHNlcnZpY2VzLg0KDQpUaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91 cCBoYXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyB0YXNrczoNCg0KMSkgUHJvZHVjZSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIHJl cXVpcmVtZW50cw0KDQoyKSBJZGVudGlmeSBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlv biBtZWNoYW5pc21zIHN1aXRhYmxlIGZvcg0KcmVzb3VyY2UgYWNjZXNzIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVk IGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4NCg0KTWlsZXN0b25lczoNCg0KSnVsIDIwMTQgU3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2Fz ZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIgYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLg0KRGVjIDIwMTQgU3VibWl0ICJBdXRo ZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgQXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBTb2x1dGlvbiIgYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLg0KRGVj IDIwMTQgT3B0aW9uYWxseSwgc3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIgZG9j dW1lbnQgDQp0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYW4gSW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBS RkMuDQpKdWwgMjAxNiBTdWJtaXQgIkF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFNv bHV0aW9uIg0Kc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYSBQ cm9wb3NlZCBTdGFuZGFyZC4NCg0KUHJvcG9zZWQgTWlsZXN0b25lcyANCk5vIG1pbGVzdG9uZXMg Zm9yIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZm91bmQuDQo= From nobody Mon May 26 09:57:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DCE1A01D6; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i-_PE7BgaU0Z; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22f.google.com (mail-ie0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ED111A01C0; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id y20so7821749ier.20 for ; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=MBVpUE81IknigEC6vmPb1NXlJq5khr8Dut7pdBZpeAE=; b=Cbc3j6cEzFUuYg1JCRbGLv4sQpdUg6urcAXpE8O/CtG3DXmxxNMAXDtqHEkQEBtNq0 huaPJRyotscGlkZh3NW4JCwZuRip6Bj0YbapPkO/pq3i6Q5w8mlLc9hsMMO9IbieJ9gr BsygTbGOEdg3trdmVSxf3fpc8cb7GR75kJg7JPzsWX1rxp3rkEVxqxeJx6zI/J4Bqk7r sbmjYxHmIZ/7HM+EjkRGWp6EqeHeDKA4kYOHuSDhUJ4NWXrAUww9GjR20Jc0w47AhI4l FAmown/MGrPmHNzGNk3MtZzgssjB2ihBuTNR7naZ4QpRyeO+px+Bkp6pYUHRpZKuEPVs myyw== X-Received: by 10.51.15.161 with SMTP id fp1mr27181586igd.25.1401123442056; Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.3.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p12sm1047598igx.18.2014.05.26.09.57.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 26 May 2014 09:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:57:19 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Likepeng , Kathleen Moriarty , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090903000103020104040201" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/e5eWYRgIhEyB3NvAiCUcC76I5M4 Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 16:57:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090903000103020104040201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kepeng: I just read your suggested changes. As to #1, it seems that that the old text and the new text are the same. With #2, I am not sure what the effect of simply removing the AAA reference on chartering objections could be (after all, the third para simply mentions some context [IETF apparently having a rich tradition [for whatever that is worth] with developing three-party protocols). I would suggest three changes to the 00-01 draft charter, which I believe would help in removing block positions (essentially limiting scope of current charter, removing impression of already drawn conclusions prior to start of work): #RS-1: remove any suggestion that existing solutions are already known to be suitable (this is still to be seen and part of the work of this group). This removes the current tension between para 4 and para 6, where para 4 says "indicate the suitability of existing work", whereas para 6 suggests "this requires relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability". This is why I raised as concern in my original draft review of April 10, 2014, 5:58pm EDT (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ace/current/msg00517.html) that one should engage into this effort with open mind, without presorting solution directions in the charter. OLD: Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing work as a solution for constrained environments NEW: Requirements derived from use cases may indicate that existingwork is useful as basis for as a solution for constrained environments #RS-2: I would suggest scrapping the entire para 7, since much too ambitious (one can easily recharter to take on more work or refocus at a later stage). I made the same comment on the original draft charter (April 10, 2014, 5:59pm EDT). OLD: Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, are out of scope. Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly concerning the use of protocol translation proxies. NEW: The working group will focus on CoAP and DTLS for access to resources. Any other work will require rechartering. #RS-3: I would suggest taking more time for the use cases and requirements than currently suggested. Given the lengthy discussion on draft charter and ACE WG coming into operation potentially just prior to the July 2014 IETF meeting, I would suggest being more reflective on use cases and aiming for WG item here after November 2014 meeting (Dec 2014) and IESG phase Apr 2015. Not much harm will be done here, since solution and use cases can be co-developed in parallel and, moreover, one can always strive for beating the schedule (overdelivering, so to speak). OLD: Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. Dec 2014 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. NEW: Dec 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. Apr 2015 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. Best regards, Rene On 5/26/2014 4:16 AM, Likepeng wrote: > Hello all, > > Based on recent discussions, I made a revised charter proposal, as included in this email, not on the webpage yet. > > Please take a look and let us know if you have any further comments. > > @Adrian and @Benoit, please check if the proposed texts can resolve your comments. > > Thanks, > Kind Regards > Kepeng > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Compared with charter-ietf-ace-00-01 on the webpage, the changes are: > > (1) Add one clarification sentence about REST architecture: > OLD > The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained > environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power. > REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments. > > NEW > The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained > environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power. > REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments. > END > > (2) Remove “AAA protocol†from the charter: > OLD > The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and > authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include > Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), the Authentication, > Authorization and Accounting (AAA) infrastructure, and the Web > Authorization Protocol (OAuth). > > NEW > The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and > authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include > Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and the Web Authorization Protocol (OAuth). > END > > (3) Clarify the scope: > OLD: > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained. > Other application protocols and protocols at other layers in the stack are out of scope. > > NEW > Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained. > The group is scoped to work only on the web protocols and data carried within them. > END > > (4) Update milestones for the use case & requirements document: > OLD: > Jul 2015 Submit “Use cases and Requirements†document to IESG for publication as informational RFC. > > NEW > Dec 2014 Optionally, submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. > END > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Charter charter-ietf-ace-00-02 > Authentication and Authorization for Constrained > Environment (ACE) > > The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained > environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power. > REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments. > It has been observed that Internet protocols can be applied to these > constrained environments, often only requiring minor tweaking and > profiling. In other cases, new protocols have been defined to address > the specific requirements of constrained environments. An example of > such a protocol is the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP). > > As in other environments, authentication and authorization questions > also arise in constrained environments. For example, a door lock has to > authorize the person seeking access using a "digital key". Where is the > authorization policy stored? How does the digital key communicate with > the lock? Does the lock interact with an authorization server to obtain > authorization information? How can access be temporarily granted to > other persons? How can access be revoked? These types of questions have > been answered by existing protocols for use cases outside constrained > environments, however in constrained environments, additional and > different requirements pose challenges for the use of various security > protocols. In particular, the need arises for a dynamic and fine grained > access control mechanism, where clients and/or resource servers are > constrained. > > The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and > authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include > Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and the Web > Authorization Protocol (OAuth). All these protocols enjoy widespread > deployment on the Internet. Although they all aim to solve a similar > goal, at an abstract level, they offer quite different functions and > utilize different message exchanges. These differences result from the > main deployment use cases they were designed for respectively. > > Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing > work as a solution for constrained environments. These protocols, > however, were not optimized for constrained environments. Additional > requirements that need to be taken into account are the lack of a > suitable user-interface and the inability of embedded devices to contact > an authorization server in real-time with every resource access request > due to intermittent connectivity, etc. > > This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for > authentication and authorization to enable authorized access (GET, PUT, POST, > DELETE) to resources identified by a URI and hosted on a resource > server in constrained environments. As a starting point, the working > group will assume that access to resources at a resource server by a > client device takes place using CoAP and is protected by DTLS. Both > resource server and client may be constrained. This access will be > mediated by an authorization server, which is not considered to be > constrained. > > Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used where > applicable to build the constrained-environment solution. This requires > relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability, selecting a > subset of them and restricting the options within each of the > specifications. Some functionality, however, may not be available in > existing protocols, in which case the solution may also involve new > protocol work. Leveraging existing work means the working group benefits > from available security analysis, implementation, and deployment > experience. Moreover, a standardized solution for federated > authentication and authorization will help to stimulate the deployment > of constrained devices that provide increased security. > > Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, > the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also > applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main > protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In > particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS > will be investigated. Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS. > Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained. > The group is scoped to work only on the web protocols and data carried within them. > Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the > integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly > concerning the use of protocol translation proxies. > > This work does not make the assumption that the party offering > application layer services is always the same party offering network > access services. > > The working group has the following tasks: > > 1) Produce use cases and requirements > > 2) Identify authentication and authorization mechanisms suitable for > resource access in constrained environments. > > Milestones: > > Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. > Dec 2014 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution" as a WG item. > Dec 2014 Optionally, submit "Use cases and Requirements" document > to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. > Jul 2016 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution" > specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard. > > Proposed Milestones > No milestones for charter found. > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------090903000103020104040201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Kepeng:

I just read your suggested changes. As to #1, it seems that that the old text and the new text are the same. With #2, I am not sure what the effect of simply removing the AAA reference on chartering objections could be (after all, the third para simply mentions some context [IETF apparently having a rich tradition [for whatever that is worth] with developing three-party protocols).

I would suggest three changes to the 00-01 draft charter, which I believe would help in removing block positions (essentially limiting scope of current charter, removing impression of already drawn conclusions prior to start of work):

#RS-1: remove any suggestion that existing solutions are already known to be suitable (this is still to be seen and part of the work of this group). This removes the current tension between para 4 and para 6, where para 4 says "indicate the suitability of existing work", whereas para 6 suggests "this requires relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability". This is why I raised as concern in my original draft review of April 10, 2014, 5:58pm EDT (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ace/current/msg00517.html) that one should engage into this effort with open mind, without presorting solution directions in the charter.

OLD:

Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing

work as a solution for constrained environments

NEW:

Requirements derived from use cases may indicate that existing work is useful as basis for as a solution for constrained environments


#RS-2:  I would suggest scrapping the entire para 7, since much too ambitious (one can easily recharter to take on more work or refocus at a later stage). I made the same comment on the original draft charter (April 10, 2014, 5:59pm EDT).


OLD:

Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made,

the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also

applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main

protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In

particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS

will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP

with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related

transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack,

are out of scope. Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the

integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly

concerning the use of protocol translation proxies.


NEW:

The working group will focus on CoAP and DTLS for access to resources. Any other work will require rechartering.


#RS-3: I would suggest taking more time for the use cases and requirements than currently suggested. Given the lengthy discussion on draft charter and ACE WG coming into operation potentially just prior to the July 2014 IETF meeting, I would suggest being more reflective on use cases and aiming for WG item here after November 2014 meeting (Dec 2014) and IESG phase Apr 2015. Not much harm will be done here, since solution and use cases can be co-developed in parallel and, moreover, one can always strive for beating the schedule (overdelivering, so to speak).


OLD:

Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements"Â as a WG item.

Dec 2014 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for

publication as an Informational RFC.


NEW:

Dec 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements"Â as a WG item.

Apr 2015 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for

publication as an Informational RFC.




Best regards, Rene

On 5/26/2014 4:16 AM, Likepeng wrote:
Hello all,

Based on recent discussions, I made a revised charter proposal, as included in this email, not on the webpage yet. 

Please take a look and let us know if you have any further comments.

@Adrian and @Benoit, please check if the proposed texts can resolve your comments.

Thanks,
Kind Regards
Kepeng

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compared with charter-ietf-ace-00-01 on the webpage, the changes are:

(1)	Add one clarification sentence about REST architecture:
OLD
The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained
environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power. 
REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments.

NEW
The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained
environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power.
REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments.
END

(2)	Remove “AAA protocol†from the charter:
OLD
The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and
authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include
Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), the Authentication,
Authorization and Accounting (AAA) infrastructure, and the Web
Authorization Protocol (OAuth).

NEW
The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and
authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include
Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and the Web Authorization Protocol (OAuth).
END

(3) Clarify the scope:
OLD:
Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained.  
Other application protocols and protocols at other layers in the stack are out of scope.

NEW
Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained.  
The group is scoped to work only on the web protocols and data carried within them.
END

(4)	Update milestones for the use case & requirements document:
OLD:
Jul 2015 Submit “Use cases and Requirements†document to IESG for publication as informational RFC.

NEW
Dec 2014 Optionally, submit "Use cases and Requirements" document to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC.
END

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charter charter-ietf-ace-00-02
Authentication and Authorization for Constrained
Environment (ACE)

The IETF has recently developed protocols for use in constrained
environments, where network nodes are limited in CPU, memory and power. 
REST architecture is widely used for such constrained environments.
It has been observed that Internet protocols can be applied to these
constrained environments, often only requiring minor tweaking and
profiling. In other cases, new protocols have been defined to address
the specific requirements of constrained environments. An example of
such a protocol is the Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP).

As in other environments, authentication and authorization questions
also arise in constrained environments. For example, a door lock has to
authorize the person seeking access using a "digital key". Where is the
authorization policy stored? How does the digital key communicate with
the lock? Does the lock interact with an authorization server to obtain
authorization information? How can access be temporarily granted to
other persons? How can access be revoked? These types of questions have
been answered by existing protocols for use cases outside constrained
environments, however in constrained environments, additional and
different requirements pose challenges for the use of various security
protocols. In particular, the need arises for a dynamic and fine grained
access control mechanism, where clients and/or resource servers are
constrained.

The IETF has a long history in developing three-party authentication and
authorization protocols for distributed environments. Examples include
Kerberos, the Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and the Web
Authorization Protocol (OAuth). All these protocols enjoy widespread
deployment on the Internet. Although they all aim to solve a similar
goal, at an abstract level, they offer quite different functions and
utilize different message exchanges. These differences result from the
main deployment use cases they were designed for respectively.

Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing
work as a solution for constrained environments. These protocols,
however, were not optimized for constrained environments. Additional
requirements that need to be taken into account are the lack of a
suitable user-interface and the inability of embedded devices to contact
an authorization server in real-time with every resource access request
due to intermittent connectivity, etc.

This working group therefore aims to produce a standardized solution for
authentication and authorization to enable authorized access (GET, PUT, POST, 
DELETE) to resources identified by a URI and hosted on a resource
server in constrained environments. As a starting point, the working
group will assume that access to resources at a resource server by a
client device takes place using CoAP and is protected by DTLS. Both
resource server and client may be constrained. This access will be
mediated by an authorization server, which is not considered to be
constrained.

Existing authentication and authorization protocols will be used where
applicable to build the constrained-environment solution. This requires
relevant specifications to be reviewed for suitability, selecting a
subset of them and restricting the options within each of the
specifications. Some functionality, however, may not be available in
existing protocols, in which case the solution may also involve new
protocol work. Leveraging existing work means the working group benefits
from available security analysis, implementation, and deployment
experience. Moreover, a standardized solution for federated
authentication and authorization will help to stimulate the deployment
of constrained devices that provide increased security.

Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made,
the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also
applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main
protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In
particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS
will be investigated. Note that the initial focus is on CoAP and HTTP with DTLS and TLS.
Other security protocols may be considered as long as the primary focus is maintained.  
The group is scoped to work only on the web protocols and data carried within them.
Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the
integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly
concerning the use of protocol translation proxies.

This work does not make the assumption that the party offering
application layer services is always the same party offering network
access services.

The working group has the following tasks:

1) Produce use cases and requirements

2) Identify authentication and authorization mechanisms suitable for
resource access in constrained environments.

Milestones:

Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item.
Dec 2014 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution" as a WG item.
Dec 2014 Optionally, submit "Use cases and Requirements" document 
to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC.
Jul 2016 Submit "Authentication and Authorization Solution"
specification to the IESG for publication as a Proposed Standard.

Proposed Milestones 
No milestones for charter found.
_______________________________________________
Ace mailing list
Ace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------090903000103020104040201-- From nobody Mon May 26 13:17:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9C51A026E; Mon, 26 May 2014 13:17:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j3RXDKxvy-pK; Mon, 26 May 2014 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31D991A0248; Mon, 26 May 2014 13:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEO43061; Mon, 26 May 2014 20:17:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 26 May 2014 21:16:37 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.35) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 26 May 2014 21:16:56 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.67]) by SZXEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 27 May 2014 04:16:52 +0800 From: Likepeng To: Rene Struik , Kathleen Moriarty , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" Thread-Topic: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 Thread-Index: AQHPeLrW9teE9ryEO0GmvALEdUzf8JtSj4mAgAC5qnA= Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 20:16:51 +0000 Message-ID: <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F2581440F7@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.202.8.69] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F2581440F7SZXEMA501MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/AMagx-2UAe97z9sB95NffvQLTmg Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 20:17:15 -0000 --_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F2581440F7SZXEMA501MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUmVuZSwNCj5BcyB0byAjMSwgaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBvbGQgdGV4dCBhbmQg dGhlIG5ldyB0ZXh0IGFyZSB0aGUgc2FtZS4NClNvcnJ5LCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgbGlrZSB0aGlz Og0KDQpPTEQNCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5IGRldmVsb3BlZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9y IHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZA0KDQplbnZpcm9ubWVudHMsIHdoZXJlIG5ldHdvcmsgbm9kZXMg YXJlIGxpbWl0ZWQgaW4gQ1BVLCBtZW1vcnkgYW5kIHBvd2VyLg0KDQoNCg0KTkVXDQoNClRoZSBJ RVRGIGhhcyByZWNlbnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWlu ZWQNCg0KZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBuZXR3b3JrIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQ VSwgbWVtb3J5IGFuZCBwb3dlci4NCg0KUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQg Zm9yIHN1Y2ggY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQpFTkQNCg0KDQoNCj4jUlMtMjog IEkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCBzY3JhcHBpbmcgdGhlIGVudGlyZSBwYXJhIDcsIHNpbmNlIG11Y2gg dG9vIGFtYml0aW91cyAob25lIGNhbiBlYXNpbHkgcmVjaGFydGVyIHRvIHRha2Ugb24gbW9yZSB3 b3JrIG9yIHJlZm9jdXMgYXQgYSBsYXRlciBzdGFnZSkuIEkgbWFkZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBjb21tZW50 IG9uIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBkcmFmdCBjaGFydGVyIChBcHJpbCAxMCwgMjAxNCwgNTo1OXBtIEVE VCkuDQoNCj5ORVc6DQoNCj5UaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCB3aWxsIGZvY3VzIG9uIENvQVAgYW5k IERUTFMgZm9yIGFjY2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIEFueSBvdGhlciB3b3JrIHdpbGwgcmVxdWly ZSByZS1jaGFydGVyaW5nLg0KDQoNClRoaXMgd2FzIHdoYXQgd2Ugc3RhcnRlZCBmcm9tIHRoZSBi ZWdpbm5pbmcuIEluIExvbmRvbiBCb0YsIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBubyBjb25zZW5zdXMgYWJvdXQgdGhp cyBzY29wZS4gU29tZSBwZW9wbGUgd2FudCB0byBzdXBwb3J0IEhUVFAgLyBUTFMsIGFsc28gcmVj ZW50IGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIGluZGljYXRlIHRoZSBuZWVkcyBmb3IgZGF0YSBvYmplY3Qgc2VjdXJp dHkuDQoNCkZvciB5b3VyIGNoYW5nZSBwcm9wb3NhbCAjMSBhbmQgIzMsIGxldOKAmXMgc2VlIG90 aGVy4oCZcyBvcGluaW9uLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpLaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMNCktlcGVuZw0K5Y+R5Lu2 5Lq6OiBSZW5lIFN0cnVpayBbbWFpbHRvOnJzdHJ1aWsuZXh0QGdtYWlsLmNvbV0NCuWPkemAgeaX tumXtDogMjAxNOW5tDXmnIgyN+aXpSAwOjU3DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IExpa2VwZW5nOyBLYXRobGVl biBNb3JpYXJ0eTsgYWRyaWFuQG9sZGRvZy5jby51aw0K5oqE6YCBOiBCZW5vaXQgQ2xhaXNlOyBh YWEtZG9jdG9yc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgVGhlIElFU0c7IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0K5Li76aKYOiBSZTog W0FjZV0gUmV2aXNlZCBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bvc2FsOiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAyDQoN CkhpIEtlcGVuZzoNCg0KSSBqdXN0IHJlYWQgeW91ciBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgY2hhbmdlcy4gQXMgdG8g IzEsIGl0IHNlZW1zIHRoYXQgdGhhdCB0aGUgb2xkIHRleHQgYW5kIHRoZSBuZXcgdGV4dCBhcmUg dGhlIHNhbWUuIFdpdGggIzIsIEkgYW0gbm90IHN1cmUgd2hhdCB0aGUgZWZmZWN0IG9mIHNpbXBs eSByZW1vdmluZyB0aGUgQUFBIHJlZmVyZW5jZSBvbiBjaGFydGVyaW5nIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgY291 bGQgYmUgKGFmdGVyIGFsbCwgdGhlIHRoaXJkIHBhcmEgc2ltcGx5IG1lbnRpb25zIHNvbWUgY29u dGV4dCBbSUVURiBhcHBhcmVudGx5IGhhdmluZyBhIHJpY2ggdHJhZGl0aW9uIFtmb3Igd2hhdGV2 ZXIgdGhhdCBpcyB3b3J0aF0gd2l0aCBkZXZlbG9waW5nIHRocmVlLXBhcnR5IHByb3RvY29scyku DQoNCkkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aHJlZSBjaGFuZ2VzIHRvIHRoZSAwMC0wMSBkcmFmdCBjaGFy dGVyLCB3aGljaCBJIGJlbGlldmUgd291bGQgaGVscCBpbiByZW1vdmluZyBibG9jayBwb3NpdGlv bnMgKGVzc2VudGlhbGx5IGxpbWl0aW5nIHNjb3BlIG9mIGN1cnJlbnQgY2hhcnRlciwgcmVtb3Zp bmcgaW1wcmVzc2lvbiBvZiBhbHJlYWR5IGRyYXduIGNvbmNsdXNpb25zIHByaW9yIHRvIHN0YXJ0 IG9mIHdvcmspOg0KDQojUlMtMTogcmVtb3ZlIGFueSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIHRoYXQgZXhpc3Rpbmcg c29sdXRpb25zIGFyZSBhbHJlYWR5IGtub3duIHRvIGJlIHN1aXRhYmxlICh0aGlzIGlzIHN0aWxs IHRvIGJlIHNlZW4gYW5kIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHdvcmsgb2YgdGhpcyBncm91cCkuIFRoaXMgcmVt b3ZlcyB0aGUgY3VycmVudCB0ZW5zaW9uIGJldHdlZW4gcGFyYSA0IGFuZCBwYXJhIDYsIHdoZXJl IHBhcmEgNCBzYXlzICJpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGUgc3VpdGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgZXhpc3Rpbmcgd29yayIs IHdoZXJlYXMgcGFyYSA2IHN1Z2dlc3RzICJ0aGlzIHJlcXVpcmVzIHJlbGV2YW50IHNwZWNpZmlj YXRpb25zIHRvIGJlIHJldmlld2VkIGZvciBzdWl0YWJpbGl0eSIuIFRoaXMgaXMgd2h5IEkgcmFp c2VkIGFzIGNvbmNlcm4gaW4gbXkgb3JpZ2luYWwgZHJhZnQgcmV2aWV3IG9mIEFwcmlsIDEwLCAy MDE0LCA1OjU4cG0gRURUIChodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWwtYXJjaGl2ZS93ZWIvYWNl L2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDA1MTcuaHRtbCkgdGhhdCBvbmUgc2hvdWxkIGVuZ2FnZSBpbnRvIHRoaXMg ZWZmb3J0IHdpdGggb3BlbiBtaW5kLCB3aXRob3V0IHByZXNvcnRpbmcgc29sdXRpb24gZGlyZWN0 aW9ucyBpbiB0aGUgY2hhcnRlci4NCg0KT0xEOg0KUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSB1 c2UgY2FzZXMgaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhlIHN1aXRhYmlsaXR5IG9mIGV4aXN0aW5nDQoNCndvcmsgYXMg YSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzDQoNCk5FVzoNClJlcXVpcmVt ZW50cyBkZXJpdmVkIGZyb20gdXNlIGNhc2VzIG1heSBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGF0IGV4aXN0aW5nIHdv cmsgaXMgdXNlZnVsIGFzIGJhc2lzIGZvciBhcyBhIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvciBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBl bnZpcm9ubWVudHMNCg0KI1JTLTI6ICBJIHdvdWxkIHN1Z2dlc3Qgc2NyYXBwaW5nIHRoZSBlbnRp cmUgcGFyYSA3LCBzaW5jZSBtdWNoIHRvbyBhbWJpdGlvdXMgKG9uZSBjYW4gZWFzaWx5IHJlY2hh cnRlciB0byB0YWtlIG9uIG1vcmUgd29yayBvciByZWZvY3VzIGF0IGEgbGF0ZXIgc3RhZ2UpLiBJ IG1hZGUgdGhlIHNhbWUgY29tbWVudCBvbiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgZHJhZnQgY2hhcnRlciAoQXBy aWwgMTAsIDIwMTQsIDU6NTlwbSBFRFQpLg0KDQpPTEQ6DQpPbmNlIHByb2dyZXNzIGluIGlkZW50 aWZ5aW5nIHN1aXRhYmxlIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgaGFzIGJlZW4gbWFkZSwNCnRoZSB3 b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgdmVyaWZ5IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBhcmUg YWxzbw0KYXBwbGljYWJsZSBiZXlvbmQgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTLCB3aGljaCBh cmUgdGhlIHR3byBtYWluDQpwcm90b2NvbHMgdGhlIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gZm9yIGFj Y2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIEluDQpwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byB1c2UgdGhl IGRldmVsb3BlZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBvdmVyIEhUVFAgYW5kIFRMUw0Kd2lsbCBiZSBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0 ZWQuIE5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgd29yayBpcyBsaW1pdGVkIHRvIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFANCndpdGgg RFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLiBPdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0aCB0aGVpciByZWxh dGVkDQp0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBhbmQgb3RoZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGF0IG90aGVyIGxh eWVycyBpbiB0aGUgc3RhY2ssDQphcmUgb3V0IG9mIHNjb3BlLiBGdXJ0aGVybW9yZSwgdG8gZ3Vh cmFudGVlIHNtb290aCB0cmFuc2l0aW9uLCB0aGUNCmludGVncmF0aW9uIHdpdGggZXhpc3Rpbmcg ZGVwbG95bWVudHMgd2lsbCBiZSBzdHVkaWVkLCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkNCmNvbmNlcm5pbmcgdGhl IHVzZSBvZiBwcm90b2NvbCB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBwcm94aWVzLg0KDQoNCk5FVzoNClRoZSB3b3Jr aW5nIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gQ29BUCBhbmQgRFRMUyBmb3IgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291 cmNlcy4gQW55IG90aGVyIHdvcmsgd2lsbCByZXF1aXJlIHJlY2hhcnRlcmluZy4NCg0KDQoNCiNS Uy0zOiBJIHdvdWxkIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGFraW5nIG1vcmUgdGltZSBmb3IgdGhlIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBh bmQgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIHRoYW4gY3VycmVudGx5IHN1Z2dlc3RlZC4gR2l2ZW4gdGhlIGxlbmd0 aHkgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvbiBkcmFmdCBjaGFydGVyIGFuZCBBQ0UgV0cgY29taW5nIGludG8gb3Bl cmF0aW9uIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IGp1c3QgcHJpb3IgdG8gdGhlIEp1bHkgMjAxNCBJRVRGIG1lZXRp bmcsIEkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCBiZWluZyBtb3JlIHJlZmxlY3RpdmUgb24gdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFu ZCBhaW1pbmcgZm9yIFdHIGl0ZW0gaGVyZSBhZnRlciBOb3ZlbWJlciAyMDE0IG1lZXRpbmcgKERl YyAyMDE0KSBhbmQgSUVTRyBwaGFzZSBBcHIgMjAxNS4gTm90IG11Y2ggaGFybSB3aWxsIGJlIGRv bmUgaGVyZSwgc2luY2Ugc29sdXRpb24gYW5kIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBjYW4gYmUgY28tZGV2ZWxvcGVk IGluIHBhcmFsbGVsIGFuZCwgbW9yZW92ZXIsIG9uZSBjYW4gYWx3YXlzIHN0cml2ZSBmb3IgYmVh dGluZyB0aGUgc2NoZWR1bGUgKG92ZXJkZWxpdmVyaW5nLCBzbyB0byBzcGVhaykuDQoNCg0KT0xE Og0KDQpKdWwgMjAxNCBTdWJtaXQgIlVzZSBjYXNlcyBhbmQgUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIsKdIGFzIGEg V0cgaXRlbS4NCkRlYyAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCBPcHRpb25hbGx5IHN1Ym1pdCAiVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFu ZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIHRoZSBJRVNHIGZvcg0KcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMg YW4gSW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMuDQoNCg0KDQpORVc6DQoNCkRlYyAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCAiVXNl IGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiwp0gYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLg0KQXByIDIwMTUgU3VibWl0 IE9wdGlvbmFsbHkgc3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIgZG9jdW1lbnQg dG8gdGhlIElFU0cgZm9yDQpwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiBhcyBhbiBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbmFsIFJGQy4NCg0K DQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywgUmVuZQ0KDQpPbiA1LzI2LzIwMTQgNDoxNiBBTSwgTGlrZXBlbmcg d3JvdGU6DQoNCkhlbGxvIGFsbCwNCg0KDQoNCkJhc2VkIG9uIHJlY2VudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucywg SSBtYWRlIGEgcmV2aXNlZCBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bvc2FsLCBhcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGVt YWlsLCBub3Qgb24gdGhlIHdlYnBhZ2UgeWV0Lg0KDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGFu ZCBsZXQgdXMga25vdyBpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhbnkgZnVydGhlciBjb21tZW50cy4NCg0KDQoNCkBB ZHJpYW4gYW5kIEBCZW5vaXQsIHBsZWFzZSBjaGVjayBpZiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgdGV4dHMgY2Fu IHJlc29sdmUgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cy4NCg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQoN CktlcGVuZw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LQ0KDQpDb21wYXJlZCB3aXRoIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDEgb24gdGhlIHdlYnBhZ2Us IHRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGFyZToNCg0KDQoNCigxKSAgICAgIEFkZCBvbmUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBz ZW50ZW5jZSBhYm91dCBSRVNUIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZToNCg0KT0xEDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyBy ZWNlbnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQNCg0KZW52 aXJvbm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBuZXR3b3JrIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQVSwgbWVtb3J5 IGFuZCBwb3dlci4NCg0KUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQgZm9yIHN1Y2gg Y29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQoNCg0KTkVXDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyByZWNl bnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQNCg0KZW52aXJv bm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBuZXR3b3JrIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQVSwgbWVtb3J5IGFu ZCBwb3dlci4NCg0KUkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQgZm9yIHN1Y2ggY29u c3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQpFTkQNCg0KDQoNCigyKSAgICAgIFJlbW92ZSDigJxB QUEgcHJvdG9jb2zigJ0gZnJvbSB0aGUgY2hhcnRlcjoNCg0KT0xEDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyBh IGxvbmcgaGlzdG9yeSBpbiBkZXZlbG9waW5nIHRocmVlLXBhcnR5IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFu ZA0KDQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRz LiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRlDQoNCktlcmJlcm9zLCB0aGUgUHVibGljIEtleSBJbmZyYXN0cnVj dHVyZSAoUEtJKSwgdGhlIEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uLA0KDQpBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGFuZCBBY2Nv dW50aW5nIChBQUEpIGluZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlLCBhbmQgdGhlIFdlYg0KDQpBdXRob3JpemF0aW9u IFByb3RvY29sIChPQXV0aCkuDQoNCg0KDQpORVcNCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIGEgbG9uZyBoaXN0 b3J5IGluIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgdGhyZWUtcGFydHkgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kDQoNCmF1dGhv cml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEV4YW1wbGVz IGluY2x1ZGUNCg0KS2VyYmVyb3MsIHRoZSBQdWJsaWMgS2V5IEluZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlIChQS0kp LCBhbmQgdGhlIFdlYiBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIChPQXV0aCkuDQoNCkVORA0KDQoN Cg0KKDMpIENsYXJpZnkgdGhlIHNjb3BlOg0KDQpPTEQ6DQoNCk5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW5pdGlh bCBmb2N1cyBpcyBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLg0KDQpPdGhlciBz ZWN1cml0eSBwcm90b2NvbHMgbWF5IGJlIGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYXMgbG9uZyBhcyB0aGUgcHJpbWFy eSBmb2N1cyBpcyBtYWludGFpbmVkLg0KDQpPdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgYW5k IHByb3RvY29scyBhdCBvdGhlciBsYXllcnMgaW4gdGhlIHN0YWNrIGFyZSBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUu DQoNCg0KDQpORVcNCg0KTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBpbml0aWFsIGZvY3VzIGlzIG9uIENvQVAgYW5k IEhUVFAgd2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMuDQoNCk90aGVyIHNlY3VyaXR5IHByb3RvY29scyBtYXkg YmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhcyBsb25nIGFzIHRoZSBwcmltYXJ5IGZvY3VzIGlzIG1haW50YWluZWQu DQoNClRoZSBncm91cCBpcyBzY29wZWQgdG8gd29yayBvbmx5IG9uIHRoZSB3ZWIgcHJvdG9jb2xz IGFuZCBkYXRhIGNhcnJpZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZW0uDQoNCkVORA0KDQoNCg0KKDQpICAgICAgVXBk YXRlIG1pbGVzdG9uZXMgZm9yIHRoZSB1c2UgY2FzZSAmIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBkb2N1bWVudDoN Cg0KT0xEOg0KDQpKdWwgMjAxNSBTdWJtaXQg4oCcVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHPi gJ0gZG9jdW1lbnQgdG8gSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMu DQoNCg0KDQpORVcNCg0KRGVjIDIwMTQgT3B0aW9uYWxseSwgc3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5k IFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIgZG9jdW1lbnQgdG8gdGhlIElFU0cgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGFu IEluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgUkZDLg0KDQpFTkQNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KQ2hhcnRlciBjaGFydGVyLWll dGYtYWNlLTAwLTAyDQoNCkF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGZvciBDb25z dHJhaW5lZA0KDQpFbnZpcm9ubWVudCAoQUNFKQ0KDQoNCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5 IGRldmVsb3BlZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZA0KDQplbnZpcm9ubWVu dHMsIHdoZXJlIG5ldHdvcmsgbm9kZXMgYXJlIGxpbWl0ZWQgaW4gQ1BVLCBtZW1vcnkgYW5kIHBv d2VyLg0KDQpSRVNUIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBpcyB3aWRlbHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igc3VjaCBjb25zdHJh aW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQoNCkl0IGhhcyBiZWVuIG9ic2VydmVkIHRoYXQgSW50ZXJuZXQg cHJvdG9jb2xzIGNhbiBiZSBhcHBsaWVkIHRvIHRoZXNlDQoNCmNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25t ZW50cywgb2Z0ZW4gb25seSByZXF1aXJpbmcgbWlub3IgdHdlYWtpbmcgYW5kDQoNCnByb2ZpbGlu Zy4gSW4gb3RoZXIgY2FzZXMsIG5ldyBwcm90b2NvbHMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGRlZmluZWQgdG8gYWRk cmVzcw0KDQp0aGUgc3BlY2lmaWMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIG9mIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25t ZW50cy4gQW4gZXhhbXBsZSBvZg0KDQpzdWNoIGEgcHJvdG9jb2wgaXMgdGhlIENvbnN0cmFpbmVk IEFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIChDb0FQKS4NCg0KDQoNCkFzIGluIG90aGVyIGVudmlyb25t ZW50cywgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcXVlc3Rpb25zDQoNCmFsc28g YXJpc2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgYSBkb29yIGxv Y2sgaGFzIHRvDQoNCmF1dGhvcml6ZSB0aGUgcGVyc29uIHNlZWtpbmcgYWNjZXNzIHVzaW5nIGEg ImRpZ2l0YWwga2V5Ii4gV2hlcmUgaXMgdGhlDQoNCmF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcG9saWN5IHN0b3Jl ZD8gSG93IGRvZXMgdGhlIGRpZ2l0YWwga2V5IGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHdpdGgNCg0KdGhlIGxvY2s/ IERvZXMgdGhlIGxvY2sgaW50ZXJhY3Qgd2l0aCBhbiBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHNlcnZlciB0byBv YnRhaW4NCg0KYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbj8gSG93IGNhbiBhY2Nlc3MgYmUgdGVt cG9yYXJpbHkgZ3JhbnRlZCB0bw0KDQpvdGhlciBwZXJzb25zPyBIb3cgY2FuIGFjY2VzcyBiZSBy ZXZva2VkPyBUaGVzZSB0eXBlcyBvZiBxdWVzdGlvbnMgaGF2ZQ0KDQpiZWVuIGFuc3dlcmVkIGJ5 IGV4aXN0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgdXNlIGNhc2VzIG91dHNpZGUgY29uc3RyYWluZWQNCg0K ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCBob3dldmVyIGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cywgYWRkaXRp b25hbCBhbmQNCg0KZGlmZmVyZW50IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBwb3NlIGNoYWxsZW5nZXMgZm9yIHRo ZSB1c2Ugb2YgdmFyaW91cyBzZWN1cml0eQ0KDQpwcm90b2NvbHMuIEluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHRo ZSBuZWVkIGFyaXNlcyBmb3IgYSBkeW5hbWljIGFuZCBmaW5lIGdyYWluZWQNCg0KYWNjZXNzIGNv bnRyb2wgbWVjaGFuaXNtLCB3aGVyZSBjbGllbnRzIGFuZC9vciByZXNvdXJjZSBzZXJ2ZXJzIGFy ZQ0KDQpjb25zdHJhaW5lZC4NCg0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyBhIGxvbmcgaGlzdG9yeSBpbiBk ZXZlbG9waW5nIHRocmVlLXBhcnR5IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZA0KDQphdXRob3JpemF0aW9u IHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRl DQoNCktlcmJlcm9zLCB0aGUgUHVibGljIEtleSBJbmZyYXN0cnVjdHVyZSAoUEtJKSwgYW5kIHRo ZSBXZWINCg0KQXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBQcm90b2NvbCAoT0F1dGgpLiBBbGwgdGhlc2UgcHJvdG9j b2xzIGVuam95IHdpZGVzcHJlYWQNCg0KZGVwbG95bWVudCBvbiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQuIEFsdGhv dWdoIHRoZXkgYWxsIGFpbSB0byBzb2x2ZSBhIHNpbWlsYXINCg0KZ29hbCwgYXQgYW4gYWJzdHJh Y3QgbGV2ZWwsIHRoZXkgb2ZmZXIgcXVpdGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBhbmQNCg0KdXRp bGl6ZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgbWVzc2FnZSBleGNoYW5nZXMuIFRoZXNlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIHJlc3Vs dCBmcm9tIHRoZQ0KDQptYWluIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgdXNlIGNhc2VzIHRoZXkgd2VyZSBkZXNpZ25l ZCBmb3IgcmVzcGVjdGl2ZWx5Lg0KDQoNCg0KUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSB1c2Ug Y2FzZXMgaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhlIHN1aXRhYmlsaXR5IG9mIGV4aXN0aW5nDQoNCndvcmsgYXMgYSBz b2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBUaGVzZSBwcm90b2NvbHMsDQoN Cmhvd2V2ZXIsIHdlcmUgbm90IG9wdGltaXplZCBmb3IgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRz LiBBZGRpdGlvbmFsDQoNCnJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyB0aGF0IG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgdGFrZW4gaW50byBh Y2NvdW50IGFyZSB0aGUgbGFjayBvZiBhDQoNCnN1aXRhYmxlIHVzZXItaW50ZXJmYWNlIGFuZCB0 aGUgaW5hYmlsaXR5IG9mIGVtYmVkZGVkIGRldmljZXMgdG8gY29udGFjdA0KDQphbiBhdXRob3Jp emF0aW9uIHNlcnZlciBpbiByZWFsLXRpbWUgd2l0aCBldmVyeSByZXNvdXJjZSBhY2Nlc3MgcmVx dWVzdA0KDQpkdWUgdG8gaW50ZXJtaXR0ZW50IGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSwgZXRjLg0KDQoNCg0KVGhp cyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBhaW1zIHRvIHByb2R1Y2UgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQg c29sdXRpb24gZm9yDQoNCmF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHRvIGVuYWJs ZSBhdXRob3JpemVkIGFjY2VzcyAoR0VULCBQVVQsIFBPU1QsDQoNCkRFTEVURSkgdG8gcmVzb3Vy Y2VzIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYnkgYSBVUkkgYW5kIGhvc3RlZCBvbiBhIHJlc291cmNlDQoNCnNlcnZl ciBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEFzIGEgc3RhcnRpbmcgcG9pbnQsIHRoZSB3 b3JraW5nDQoNCmdyb3VwIHdpbGwgYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBhdCBh IHJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZlciBieSBhDQoNCmNsaWVudCBkZXZpY2UgdGFrZXMgcGxhY2UgdXNpbmcg Q29BUCBhbmQgaXMgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IERUTFMuIEJvdGgNCg0KcmVzb3VyY2Ugc2VydmVyIGFu ZCBjbGllbnQgbWF5IGJlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkLiBUaGlzIGFjY2VzcyB3aWxsIGJlDQoNCm1lZGlh dGVkIGJ5IGFuIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gc2VydmVyLCB3aGljaCBpcyBub3QgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0 byBiZQ0KDQpjb25zdHJhaW5lZC4NCg0KDQoNCkV4aXN0aW5nIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBh dXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWQgd2hlcmUNCg0KYXBwbGljYWJsZSB0 byBidWlsZCB0aGUgY29uc3RyYWluZWQtZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgc29sdXRpb24uIFRoaXMgcmVxdWly ZXMNCg0KcmVsZXZhbnQgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgdG8gYmUgcmV2aWV3ZWQgZm9yIHN1aXRhYmls aXR5LCBzZWxlY3RpbmcgYQ0KDQpzdWJzZXQgb2YgdGhlbSBhbmQgcmVzdHJpY3RpbmcgdGhlIG9w dGlvbnMgd2l0aGluIGVhY2ggb2YgdGhlDQoNCnNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25zLiBTb21lIGZ1bmN0aW9u YWxpdHksIGhvd2V2ZXIsIG1heSBub3QgYmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluDQoNCmV4aXN0aW5nIHByb3Rv Y29scywgaW4gd2hpY2ggY2FzZSB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gbWF5IGFsc28gaW52b2x2ZSBuZXcNCg0K cHJvdG9jb2wgd29yay4gTGV2ZXJhZ2luZyBleGlzdGluZyB3b3JrIG1lYW5zIHRoZSB3b3JraW5n IGdyb3VwIGJlbmVmaXRzDQoNCmZyb20gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFuYWx5c2lzLCBpbXBs ZW1lbnRhdGlvbiwgYW5kIGRlcGxveW1lbnQNCg0KZXhwZXJpZW5jZS4gTW9yZW92ZXIsIGEgc3Rh bmRhcmRpemVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvciBmZWRlcmF0ZWQNCg0KYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1 dGhvcml6YXRpb24gd2lsbCBoZWxwIHRvIHN0aW11bGF0ZSB0aGUgZGVwbG95bWVudA0KDQpvZiBj b25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2VzIHRoYXQgcHJvdmlkZSBpbmNyZWFzZWQgc2VjdXJpdHkuDQoNCg0K DQpPbmNlIHByb2dyZXNzIGluIGlkZW50aWZ5aW5nIHN1aXRhYmxlIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBzb2x1dGlv bnMgaGFzIGJlZW4gbWFkZSwNCg0KdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCB2ZXJpZnkgd2hldGhl ciB0aGUgc2FtZSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGFyZSBhbHNvDQoNCmFwcGxpY2FibGUgYmV5b25kIHRoZSB1 c2Ugb2YgQ29BUCBhbmQgRFRMUywgd2hpY2ggYXJlIHRoZSB0d28gbWFpbg0KDQpwcm90b2NvbHMg dGhlIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gZm9yIGFjY2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIEluDQoNCnBh cnRpY3VsYXIsIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIG92ZXIg SFRUUCBhbmQgVExTDQoNCndpbGwgYmUgaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVkLiBOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGluaXRp YWwgZm9jdXMgaXMgb24gQ29BUCBhbmQgSFRUUCB3aXRoIERUTFMgYW5kIFRMUy4NCg0KT3RoZXIg c2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG1heSBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgdGhlIHByaW1h cnkgZm9jdXMgaXMgbWFpbnRhaW5lZC4NCg0KVGhlIGdyb3VwIGlzIHNjb3BlZCB0byB3b3JrIG9u bHkgb24gdGhlIHdlYiBwcm90b2NvbHMgYW5kIGRhdGEgY2FycmllZCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlbS4NCg0K RnVydGhlcm1vcmUsIHRvIGd1YXJhbnRlZSBzbW9vdGggdHJhbnNpdGlvbiwgdGhlDQoNCmludGVn cmF0aW9uIHdpdGggZXhpc3RpbmcgZGVwbG95bWVudHMgd2lsbCBiZSBzdHVkaWVkLCBwYXJ0aWN1 bGFybHkNCg0KY29uY2VybmluZyB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHByb3RvY29sIHRyYW5zbGF0aW9uIHByb3hp ZXMuDQoNCg0KDQpUaGlzIHdvcmsgZG9lcyBub3QgbWFrZSB0aGUgYXNzdW1wdGlvbiB0aGF0IHRo ZSBwYXJ0eSBvZmZlcmluZw0KDQphcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBsYXllciBzZXJ2aWNlcyBpcyBhbHdheXMg dGhlIHNhbWUgcGFydHkgb2ZmZXJpbmcgbmV0d29yaw0KDQphY2Nlc3Mgc2VydmljZXMuDQoNCg0K DQpUaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBoYXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyB0YXNrczoNCg0KDQoNCjEpIFBy b2R1Y2UgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMNCg0KDQoNCjIpIElkZW50aWZ5IGF1dGhl bnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgc3VpdGFibGUgZm9yDQoNCnJl c291cmNlIGFjY2VzcyBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuDQoNCg0KDQpNaWxlc3Rv bmVzOg0KDQoNCg0KSnVsIDIwMTQgU3VibWl0ICJVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyIg YXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLg0KDQpEZWMgMjAxNCBTdWJtaXQgIkF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRo b3JpemF0aW9uIFNvbHV0aW9uIiBhcyBhIFdHIGl0ZW0uDQoNCkRlYyAyMDE0IE9wdGlvbmFsbHks IHN1Ym1pdCAiVXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMiIGRvY3VtZW50DQoNCnRvIHRoZSBJ RVNHIGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiBhcyBhbiBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbmFsIFJGQy4NCg0KSnVsIDIwMTYg U3VibWl0ICJBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgQXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBTb2x1dGlvbiINCg0Kc3Bl Y2lmaWNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYSBQcm9wb3NlZCBTdGFu ZGFyZC4NCg0KDQoNClByb3Bvc2VkIE1pbGVzdG9uZXMNCg0KTm8gbWlsZXN0b25lcyBmb3IgY2hh cnRlciBmb3VuZC4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCg0KQWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KDQpBY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOkFjZUBpZXRm Lm9yZz4NCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hY2UNCg0KDQoN Cg0KLS0NCg0KZW1haWw6IHJzdHJ1aWsuZXh0QGdtYWlsLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cnN0cnVpay5leHRA Z21haWwuY29tPiB8IFNreXBlOiByc3RydWlrDQoNCmNlbGw6ICsxICg2NDcpIDg2Ny01NjU4IHwg VVM6ICsxICg0MTUpIDY5MC03MzYzDQo= --_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F2581440F7SZXEMA501MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6dj0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTp2bWwiIHhtbG5zOm89InVy bjpzY2hlbWFzLW1pY3Jvc29mdC1jb206b2ZmaWNlOm9mZmljZSIgeG1sbnM6dz0idXJuOnNjaGVt YXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6d29yZCIgeG1sbnM6bT0iaHR0cDovL3NjaGVtYXMubWlj cm9zb2Z0LmNvbS9vZmZpY2UvMjAwNC8xMi9vbW1sIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcv VFIvUkVDLWh0bWw0MCI+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdlbmVyYXRv ciIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0IFdvcmQgMTIgKGZpbHRlcmVkIG1lZGl1bSkiPg0KPHN0eWxl PjwhLS0NCi8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 5a6L5L2TOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMSA2IDAgMyAxIDEgMSAxIDE7fQ0KQGZvbnQtZmFjZQ0KCXtm b250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2IDMgMiA0 O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDE1IDUg MiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJcQOWui+S9kyI7DQoJ cGFub3NlLTE6MiAxIDYgMCAzIDEgMSAxIDEgMTt9DQovKiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0K cC5Nc29Ob3JtYWwsIGxpLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgZGl2Lk1zb05vcm1hbA0KCXttYXJnaW4tdG9wOjBj bTsNCgltYXJnaW4tcmlnaHQ6MGNtOw0KCW1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MTAuMHB0Ow0KCW1hcmdpbi1s ZWZ0OjBjbTsNCglsaW5lLWhlaWdodDoxMTUlOw0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1m YW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLCJzYW5zLXNlcmlmIjsNCgljb2xvcjpibGFjazt9DQphOmxpbmssIHNw YW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjpibHVlOw0K CXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0KYTp2aXNpdGVkLCBzcGFuLk1zb0h5cGVybGlu a0ZvbGxvd2VkDQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjpwdXJwbGU7DQoJdGV4 dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9uOnVuZGVybGluZTt9DQpwcmUNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXByaW9yaXR5Ojk5Ow0K CW1zby1zdHlsZS1saW5rOiJIVE1MIOmihOiuvuagvOW8jyBDaGFyIjsNCgltYXJnaW46MGNtOw0K CW1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0Ow0KCWZvbnQtZmFtaWx5 OuWui+S9kzsNCgljb2xvcjpibGFjazt9DQpzcGFuLkhUTUxDaGFyDQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS1uYW1l OiJIVE1MIOmihOiuvuagvOW8jyBDaGFyIjsNCgltc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7DQoJbXNv LXN0eWxlLWxpbms6IkhUTUwg6aKE6K6+5qC85byPIjsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ291cmllciBO ZXciOw0KCWNvbG9yOmJsYWNrO30NCnNwYW4uRW1haWxTdHlsZTIwDQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBl OnBlcnNvbmFsLXJlcGx5Ow0KCWZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJDYWxpYnJpIiwic2Fucy1zZXJpZiI7DQoJ Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RDt9DQouTXNvQ2hwRGVmYXVsdA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtdHlwZTpleHBvcnQt b25seTsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0O30NCkBwYWdlIFdvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtzaXplOjYx Mi4wcHQgNzkyLjBwdDsNCgltYXJnaW46NzIuMHB0IDkwLjBwdCA3Mi4wcHQgOTAuMHB0O30NCmRp di5Xb3JkU2VjdGlvbjENCgl7cGFnZTpXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjE7fQ0KLS0+PC9zdHlsZT48IS0tW2lm IGd0ZSBtc28gOV0+PHhtbD4NCjxvOnNoYXBlZGVmYXVsdHMgdjpleHQ9ImVkaXQiIHNwaWRtYXg9 IjEwMjYiIC8+DQo8L3htbD48IVtlbmRpZl0tLT48IS0tW2lmIGd0ZSBtc28gOV0+PHhtbD4NCjxv OnNoYXBlbGF5b3V0IHY6ZXh0PSJlZGl0Ij4NCjxvOmlkbWFwIHY6ZXh0PSJlZGl0IiBkYXRhPSIx IiAvPg0KPC9vOnNoYXBlbGF5b3V0PjwveG1sPjwhW2VuZGlmXS0tPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJvZHkg Ymdjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiIGxhbmc9IlpILUNOIiBsaW5rPSJibHVlIiB2bGluaz0icHVycGxlIj4N CjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMSI+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBs YW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xv cjojMUY0OTdEIj5IaSBSZW5lLDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtsaW5lLWhl aWdodDoxMTUlO2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPiZndDtBcyB0byAjMSwgaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCB0aGF0 IHRoZSBvbGQgdGV4dCBhbmQgdGhlIG5ldyB0ZXh0IGFyZSB0aGUgc2FtZS48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwv c3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5Tb3JyeSwg aXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGxpa2UgdGhpczo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtD YWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMtc2VyaWYmcXVvdDs7Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+T0xEPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMt c2VyaWYmcXVvdDs7Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5IGRldmVsb3Bl ZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtzYW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMx RjQ5N0QiPmVudmlyb25tZW50cywgd2hlcmUgbmV0d29yayBub2RlcyBhcmUgbGltaXRlZCBpbiBD UFUsIG1lbW9yeSBhbmQgcG93ZXIuIDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3Bh biBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7 Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtzYW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPjxvOnA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtz YW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPk5FVzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtzYW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMx RjQ5N0QiPlRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyByZWNlbnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciB1c2Ug aW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkm cXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5lbnZpcm9ubWVudHMs IHdoZXJlIG5ldHdvcmsgbm9kZXMgYXJlIGxpbWl0ZWQgaW4gQ1BVLCBtZW1vcnkgYW5kIHBvd2Vy LjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90OywmcXVvdDtz YW5zLXNlcmlmJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPlJFU1QgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGlzIHdpZGVs eSB1c2VkIGZvciBzdWNoIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0 O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztj b2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5FTkQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGli cmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj48bzpwPiZuYnNw OzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250 LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1z ZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj4mZ3Q7I1JTLTI6Jm5ic3A7IEkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2Vz dCBzY3JhcHBpbmcgdGhlIGVudGlyZSBwYXJhIDcsIHNpbmNlIG11Y2ggdG9vIGFtYml0aW91cyAo b25lIGNhbiBlYXNpbHkgcmVjaGFydGVyIHRvIHRha2Ugb24gbW9yZSB3b3JrIG9yIHJlZm9jdXMg YXQgYSBsYXRlciBzdGFnZSkuIEkgbWFkZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBjb21tZW50IG9uIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5h bCBkcmFmdCBjaGFydGVyIChBcHJpbCAxMCwgMjAxNCwgNTo1OXBtIEVEVCkuPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEw LjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LCZxdW90O3NhbnMtc2VyaWYmcXVv dDs7Y29sb3I6IzFGNDk3RCI+Jmd0O05FVzo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+ PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZx dW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj4m Z3Q7VGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTIGZvciBhY2Nl c3MgdG8gcmVzb3VyY2VzLiBBbnkgb3RoZXIgd29yayB3aWxsIHJlcXVpcmUgcmUtY2hhcnRlcmlu Zy48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxl PSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuNXB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssJnF1b3Q7 c2Fucy1zZXJpZiZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48 L3ByZT4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDoxMTUlO2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPlRoaXMgd2FzIHdo YXQgd2Ugc3RhcnRlZCBmcm9tIHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcuIEluIExvbmRvbiBCb0YsIHRoZXJlIHdh cyBubyBjb25zZW5zdXMgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBzY29wZS4gU29tZSBwZW9wbGUgd2FudCB0byBzdXBw b3J0IEhUVFAgLyBUTFMsIGFsc28gcmVjZW50IGRpc2N1c3Npb25zDQogaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhlIG5l ZWRzIGZvciBkYXRhIG9iamVjdCBzZWN1cml0eS48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBj bGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41 cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZv bnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5Gb3IgeW91ciBj aGFuZ2UgcHJvcG9zYWwgIzEgYW5kICMzLCBsZXTigJlzIHNlZSBvdGhlcuKAmXMgb3Bpbmlvbi4N CjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9 IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDoxMTUlO2NvbG9yOiMx RjQ5N0QiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi PjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDox MTUlO2NvbG9yOiMxRjQ5N0QiPlRoYW5rcyw8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFz cz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7 bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5LaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHM8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwv c3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6MTE1JTtjb2xvcjojMUY0OTdEIj5LZXBlbmc8 bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm9yZGVyOm5vbmU7Ym9y ZGVyLXRvcDpzb2xpZCAjQjVDNERGIDEuMHB0O3BhZGRpbmc6My4wcHQgMGNtIDBjbSAwY20iPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0 b206LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPGI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMC4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk65a6L5L2TO2NvbG9yOndpbmRvd3RleHQiPuWPkeS7tuS6ujxz cGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj46PC9zcGFuPjwvc3Bhbj48L2I+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0 eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kztjb2xvcjp3aW5kb3d0ZXh0 Ij4gUmVuZSBTdHJ1aWsgW21haWx0bzpyc3RydWlrLmV4dEBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQo8YnI+DQo8L3Nw YW4+PGI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk65a6L5L2TO2Nv bG9yOndpbmRvd3RleHQiPuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj46PC9zcGFuPjwv c3Bhbj48L2I+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0O2ZvbnQt ZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kztjb2xvcjp3aW5kb3d0ZXh0Ij4gMjAxNDwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0i Zm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTrlrovkvZM7Y29sb3I6d2luZG93dGV4dCI+5bm0 PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjU8L3NwYW4+5pyIPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjI3PC9zcGFu PuaXpTxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj4NCiAwOjU3PGJyPg0KPC9zcGFuPjxiPuaUtuS7tuS6ujxz cGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj46PC9zcGFuPjwvYj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+IExpa2VwZW5n OyBLYXRobGVlbiBNb3JpYXJ0eTsgYWRyaWFuQG9sZGRvZy5jby51azxicj4NCjwvc3Bhbj48Yj7m ioTpgIE8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+Ojwvc3Bhbj48L2I+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPiBC ZW5vaXQgQ2xhaXNlOyBhYWEtZG9jdG9yc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgVGhlIElFU0c7IGFjZUBpZXRmLm9y Zzxicj4NCjwvc3Bhbj48Yj7kuLvpopg8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+Ojwvc3Bhbj48L2I+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPiBSZTogW0FjZV0gUmV2aXNlZCBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bvc2FsOiBjaGFy dGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAyPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJz cDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj5IaSBLZXBlbmc6PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KSSBqdXN0IHJlYWQgeW91ciBzdWdnZXN0 ZWQgY2hhbmdlcy4gQXMgdG8gIzEsIGl0IHNlZW1zIHRoYXQgdGhhdCB0aGUgb2xkIHRleHQgYW5k IHRoZSBuZXcgdGV4dCBhcmUgdGhlIHNhbWUuIFdpdGggIzIsIEkgYW0gbm90IHN1cmUgd2hhdCB0 aGUgZWZmZWN0IG9mIHNpbXBseSByZW1vdmluZyB0aGUgQUFBIHJlZmVyZW5jZSBvbiBjaGFydGVy aW5nIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgY291bGQgYmUgKGFmdGVyIGFsbCwgdGhlIHRoaXJkIHBhcmEgc2ltcGx5 IG1lbnRpb25zDQogc29tZSBjb250ZXh0IFtJRVRGIGFwcGFyZW50bHkgaGF2aW5nIGEgcmljaCB0 cmFkaXRpb24gW2ZvciB3aGF0ZXZlciB0aGF0IGlzIHdvcnRoXSB3aXRoIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgdGhy ZWUtcGFydHkgcHJvdG9jb2xzKS4NCjxicj4NCjxicj4NCkkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aHJlZSBj aGFuZ2VzIHRvIHRoZSAwMC0wMSBkcmFmdCBjaGFydGVyLCB3aGljaCBJIGJlbGlldmUgd291bGQg aGVscCBpbiByZW1vdmluZyBibG9jayBwb3NpdGlvbnMgKGVzc2VudGlhbGx5IGxpbWl0aW5nIHNj b3BlIG9mIGN1cnJlbnQgY2hhcnRlciwgcmVtb3ZpbmcgaW1wcmVzc2lvbiBvZiBhbHJlYWR5IGRy YXduIGNvbmNsdXNpb25zIHByaW9yIHRvIHN0YXJ0IG9mIHdvcmspOjxicj4NCjxicj4NCiNSUy0x OiByZW1vdmUgYW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gdGhhdCBleGlzdGluZyBzb2x1dGlvbnMgYXJlIGFscmVh ZHkga25vd24gdG8gYmUgc3VpdGFibGUgKHRoaXMgaXMgc3RpbGwgdG8gYmUgc2VlbiBhbmQgcGFy dCBvZiB0aGUgd29yayBvZiB0aGlzIGdyb3VwKS4gVGhpcyByZW1vdmVzIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHRl bnNpb24gYmV0d2VlbiBwYXJhIDQgYW5kIHBhcmEgNiwgd2hlcmUgcGFyYSA0IHNheXMgJnF1b3Q7 aW5kaWNhdGUgdGhlIHN1aXRhYmlsaXR5IG9mIGV4aXN0aW5nDQogd29yayZxdW90Oywgd2hlcmVh cyBwYXJhIDYgc3VnZ2VzdHMgJnF1b3Q7dGhpcyByZXF1aXJlcyByZWxldmFudCBzcGVjaWZpY2F0 aW9ucyB0byBiZSByZXZpZXdlZCBmb3Igc3VpdGFiaWxpdHkmcXVvdDsuIFRoaXMgaXMgd2h5IEkg cmFpc2VkIGFzIGNvbmNlcm4gaW4gbXkgb3JpZ2luYWwgZHJhZnQgcmV2aWV3IG9mIEFwcmlsIDEw LCAyMDE0LCA1OjU4cG0gRURUICg8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWwtYXJj aGl2ZS93ZWIvYWNlL2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDA1MTcuaHRtbCI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL2FjZS9jdXJyZW50L21zZzAwNTE3Lmh0bWw8L2E+KQ0KIHRoYXQgb25l IHNob3VsZCBlbmdhZ2UgaW50byB0aGlzIGVmZm9ydCB3aXRoIG9wZW4gbWluZCwgd2l0aG91dCBw cmVzb3J0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9uIGRpcmVjdGlvbnMgaW4gdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0K T0xEOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJt c28tbWFyZ2luLXRvcC1hbHQ6YXV0byI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNp emU6MTAuMHB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0OjExNSUiPlJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBkZXJpdmVkIGZyb20gdXNl IGNhc2VzIGluZGljYXRlIHRoZSBzdWl0YWJpbGl0eSBvZiBleGlzdGluZzxicj4NCjxicj4NCjwv c3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9 Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFw dDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNp emU6MTAuMHB0Ij53b3JrIGFzIGEgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50 czwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+DQo8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0 eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kyI+PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KTkVX OjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJn aW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4N CjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+UmVxdWlyZW1lbnRz IGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgbWF5IGluZGljYXRlIHRoYXQgZXhpc3Rpbmc8L3NwYW4+ PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPiB3b3JrIGlzIHVzZWZ1bCBhcyBiYXNpcyBmb3IgYXMgYSBzb2x1 dGlvbiBmb3IgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0 b206LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJn aW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4N CjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj4jUlMtMjombmJzcDsgSSB3b3VsZCBzdWdnZXN0IHNjcmFwcGlu ZyB0aGUgZW50aXJlIHBhcmEgNywgc2luY2UgbXVjaCB0b28gYW1iaXRpb3VzIChvbmUgY2FuIGVh c2lseSByZWNoYXJ0ZXIgdG8gdGFrZSBvbiBtb3JlIHdvcmsgb3IgcmVmb2N1cyBhdCBhIGxhdGVy IHN0YWdlKS4gSSBtYWRlIHRoZSBzYW1lIGNvbW1lbnQgb24gdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGRyYWZ0IGNo YXJ0ZXIgKEFwcmlsIDEwLCAyMDE0LCA1OjU5cG0gRURUKS4NCjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4t Ym90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48 YnI+DQpPTEQ6PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5 bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpu b3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0Ij5PbmNl IHByb2dyZXNzIGluIGlkZW50aWZ5aW5nIHN1aXRhYmxlIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgaGFz IGJlZW4gbWFkZSw8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4t Ym90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBz dHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+dGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCB2ZXJpZnkgd2hl dGhlciB0aGUgc2FtZSBtZWNoYW5pc21zIGFyZSBhbHNvPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVT Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFy Z2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+ DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPmFwcGxpY2FibGUg YmV5b25kIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgQ29BUCBhbmQgRFRMUywgd2hpY2ggYXJlIHRoZSB0d28gbWFpbjwv c3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9 Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFw dDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNp emU6MTAuMHB0Ij5wcm90b2NvbHMgdGhlIGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gZm9yIGFjY2VzcyB0 byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIEluPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFy Z2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1V UyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPnBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHVz ZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIG92ZXIgSFRUUCBhbmQgVExTPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBz dHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0 Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPndp bGwgYmUgaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVkLiBOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHdvcmsgaXMgbGltaXRlZCB0byBDb0FQ IGFuZCBIVFRQPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+ DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJv dHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPndpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLiBPdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlv biBwcm90b2NvbHMgd2l0aCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGVkPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48 bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2lu LWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8 c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPnRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm90 b2NvbHMsIGFuZCBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXQgb3RoZXIgbGF5ZXJzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFjayw8 L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNz PSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAx cHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1z aXplOjEwLjBwdCI+YXJlIG91dCBvZiBzY29wZS4gRnVydGhlcm1vcmUsIHRvIGd1YXJhbnRlZSBz bW9vdGggdHJhbnNpdGlvbiwgdGhlPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTow Y207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPmludGVncmF0aW9uIHdpdGggZXhpc3Rp bmcgZGVwbG95bWVudHMgd2lsbCBiZSBzdHVkaWVkLCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHk8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4g bGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi IHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWln aHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+ Y29uY2VybmluZyB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHByb3RvY29sIHRyYW5zbGF0aW9uIHByb3hpZXMuPGJyPg0K PGJyPg0KPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8 cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRv bTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PGJyPg0K TkVXOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJt YXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFs Ij4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+VGhlIHdvcmtp bmcgZ3JvdXAgd2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTIGZvciBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gcmVzb3Vy Y2VzLiBBbnkgb3RoZXIgd29yayB3aWxsIHJlcXVpcmUgcmVjaGFydGVyaW5nLjxicj4NCjxicj4N Cjwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xh c3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAw MDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250 LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0Ij48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90 dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+I1JTLTM6IEkgd291bGQgc3Vn Z2VzdCB0YWtpbmcgbW9yZSB0aW1lIGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMg dGhhbiBjdXJyZW50bHkgc3VnZ2VzdGVkLiBHaXZlbiB0aGUgbGVuZ3RoeSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9u IGRyYWZ0IGNoYXJ0ZXIgYW5kIEFDRSBXRyBjb21pbmcgaW50byBvcGVyYXRpb24gcG90ZW50aWFs bHkganVzdCBwcmlvciB0byB0aGUgSnVseQ0KIDIwMTQgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLCBJIHdvdWxkIHN1 Z2dlc3QgYmVpbmcgbW9yZSByZWZsZWN0aXZlIG9uIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBhbmQgYWltaW5nIGZvciBX RyBpdGVtIGhlcmUgYWZ0ZXIgTm92ZW1iZXIgMjAxNCBtZWV0aW5nIChEZWMgMjAxNCkgYW5kIElF U0cgcGhhc2UgQXByIDIwMTUuIE5vdCBtdWNoIGhhcm0gd2lsbCBiZSBkb25lIGhlcmUsIHNpbmNl IHNvbHV0aW9uIGFuZCB1c2UgY2FzZXMgY2FuIGJlIGNvLWRldmVsb3BlZCBpbiBwYXJhbGxlbA0K IGFuZCwgbW9yZW92ZXIsIG9uZSBjYW4gYWx3YXlzIHN0cml2ZSBmb3IgYmVhdGluZyB0aGUgc2No ZWR1bGUgKG92ZXJkZWxpdmVyaW5nLCBzbyB0byBzcGVhaykuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPC9zcGFuPjxz cGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUt aGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4w cHQiPjxicj4NCk9MRDogPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpw PjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJv dHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3Bh biBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPkp1bCAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCAm cXVvdDtVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyZxdW90Ozwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJF Ti1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPiYjMTU3Ozwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJF Ti1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPiBhcyBhIFdHIGl0ZW0uPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs IiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVp Z2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQi PkRlYyAyMDE0IFN1Ym1pdCBPcHRpb25hbGx5IHN1Ym1pdCAmcXVvdDtVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJl cXVpcmVtZW50cyZxdW90OyBkb2N1bWVudCB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3I8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0 eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjBjbTttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOi4wMDAxcHQ7bGluZS1oZWlnaHQ6 bm9ybWFsIj4NCjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdCI+cHVi bGljYXRpb24gYXMgYW4gSW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMuPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs IiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVp Z2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNt O21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kyI+TkVXOiA8 YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIu MHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9 Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFw dDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNp emU6MTAuMHB0Ij5EZWMgMjAxNCBTdWJtaXQgJnF1b3Q7VXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVu dHMmcXVvdDs8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0 Ij4mIzE1Nzs8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0 Ij4gYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLjwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3Nw YW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21h cmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0Ij5BcHIgMjAxNSBTdWJtaXQgT3B0aW9uYWxseSBz dWJtaXQgJnF1b3Q7VXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMmcXVvdDsgZG9jdW1lbnQgdG8g dGhlIElFU0cgZm9yPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48 L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowY207bWFyZ2lu LWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0O2xpbmUtaGVpZ2h0Om5vcm1hbCI+DQo8c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIg c3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQiPnB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGFuIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwg UkZDLjwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206 LjAwMDFwdDtsaW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJm b250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kyI+PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KQmVz dCByZWdhcmRzLCBSZW5lPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KT24gNS8yNi8yMDE0IDQ6MTYgQU0sIExpa2VwZW5n IHdyb3RlOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgc3R5bGU9 Im1hcmdpbi10b3A6NS4wcHQ7bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTo1LjBwdCI+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9 IkVOLVVTIj5IZWxsbyBhbGwsPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiPkJhc2VkIG9uIHJlY2VudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucywgSSBtYWRlIGEgcmV2aXNlZCBj aGFydGVyIHByb3Bvc2FsLCBhcyBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGVtYWlsLCBub3Qgb24gdGhlIHdl YnBhZ2UgeWV0LiA8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1V UyI+UGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGFuZCBsZXQgdXMga25vdyBpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhbnkgZnVy dGhlciBjb21tZW50cy48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJF Ti1VUyI+QEFkcmlhbiBhbmQgQEJlbm9pdCwgcGxlYXNlIGNoZWNrIGlmIHRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCB0 ZXh0cyBjYW4gcmVzb2x2ZSB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0K PHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5UaGFua3MsPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5LaW5kIFJlZ2FyZHM8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3By ZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPktlcGVuZzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVO LVVTIj5Db21wYXJlZCB3aXRoIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1hY2UtMDAtMDEgb24gdGhlIHdlYnBhZ2Us IHRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGFyZTo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+KDEpJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IEFkZCBvbmUgY2xhcmlm aWNhdGlvbiBzZW50ZW5jZSBhYm91dCBSRVNUIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZTo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk9MRDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5IGRldmVs b3BlZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBuZXR3b3Jr IG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQVSwgbWVtb3J5IGFuZCBwb3dlci4gPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5SRVNUIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBp cyB3aWRlbHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igc3VjaCBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuPG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk5FVzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5 IGRldmVsb3BlZCBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCB3aGVyZSBu ZXR3b3JrIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBsaW1pdGVkIGluIENQVSwgbWVtb3J5IGFuZCBwb3dlci48bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPlJFU1QgYXJjaGl0ZWN0 dXJlIGlzIHdpZGVseSB1c2VkIGZvciBzdWNoIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy48bzpw PjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPkVORDxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj4oMikmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsm bmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgUmVtb3ZlIOKAnEFBQSBwcm90b2NvbOKAnSBmcm9tIHRoZSBjaGFy dGVyOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+T0xE PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5UaGUgSUVU RiBoYXMgYSBsb25nIGhpc3RvcnkgaW4gZGV2ZWxvcGluZyB0aHJlZS1wYXJ0eSBhdXRoZW50aWNh dGlvbiBhbmQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMi PmF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIGZvciBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEV4 YW1wbGVzIGluY2x1ZGU8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPktlcmJlcm9zLCB0aGUgUHVibGljIEtleSBJbmZyYXN0cnVjdHVyZSAoUEtJKSwgdGhl IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uLDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+QXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBhbmQgQWNjb3VudGluZyAoQUFBKSBpbmZyYXN0cnVjdHVy ZSwgYW5kIHRoZSBXZWI8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPkF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gUHJvdG9jb2wgKE9BdXRoKS48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48 L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+TkVXPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5UaGUgSUVURiBoYXMgYSBsb25nIGhpc3RvcnkgaW4g ZGV2ZWxvcGluZyB0aHJlZS1wYXJ0eSBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcHJvdG9jb2xz IGZvciBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMuIEV4YW1wbGVzIGluY2x1ZGU8bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPktlcmJlcm9zLCB0aGUgUHVi bGljIEtleSBJbmZyYXN0cnVjdHVyZSAoUEtJKSwgYW5kIHRoZSBXZWIgQXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBQ cm90b2NvbCAoT0F1dGgpLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+RU5EPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVO LVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPigzKSBDbGFyaWZ5IHRoZSBzY29wZTo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+ PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk9MRDo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW5pdGlhbCBmb2N1cyBpcyBvbiBDb0FQIGFu ZCBIVFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48 c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+T3RoZXIgc2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG1heSBiZSBjb25zaWRl cmVkIGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgdGhlIHByaW1hcnkgZm9jdXMgaXMgbWFpbnRhaW5lZC4mbmJzcDsgPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5PdGhlciBhcHBs aWNhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgYW5kIHByb3RvY29scyBhdCBvdGhlciBsYXllcnMgaW4gdGhlIHN0 YWNrIGFyZSBvdXQgb2Ygc2NvcGUuPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4g bGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk5FVzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+Tm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBpbml0aWFsIGZvY3VzIGlzIG9uIENvQVAgYW5kIEhUVFAg d2l0aCBEVExTIGFuZCBUTFMuPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj5PdGhlciBzZWN1cml0eSBwcm90b2NvbHMgbWF5IGJlIGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYXMg bG9uZyBhcyB0aGUgcHJpbWFyeSBmb2N1cyBpcyBtYWludGFpbmVkLiZuYnNwOyA8bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPlRoZSBncm91cCBpcyBzY29w ZWQgdG8gd29yayBvbmx5IG9uIHRoZSB3ZWIgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGFuZCBkYXRhIGNhcnJpZWQgd2l0 aGluIHRoZW0uPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVT Ij5FTkQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxv OnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+KDQp Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IFVwZGF0ZSBtaWxlc3RvbmVzIGZvciB0aGUg dXNlIGNhc2UgJmFtcDsgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRvY3VtZW50OjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+T0xEOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+SnVsIDIwMTUgU3VibWl0IOKAnFVzZSBjYXNlcyBh bmQgUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRz4oCdIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIElFU0cgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGlu Zm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgUkZDLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9 IkVOLVVTIj5ORVc8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPkRlYyAyMDE0IE9wdGlvbmFsbHksIHN1Ym1pdCAmcXVvdDtVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVp cmVtZW50cyZxdW90OyBkb2N1bWVudCB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYW4g SW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbCBSRkMuPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj5FTkQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJF Ti1VUyI+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ Q2hhcnRlciBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtYWNlLTAwLTAyPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5BdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgQXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBm b3IgQ29uc3RyYWluZWQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPkVudmlyb25tZW50IChBQ0UpPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxz cGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPlRoZSBJRVRGIGhhcyByZWNlbnRseSBkZXZlbG9wZWQgcHJvdG9jb2xz IGZvciB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmVudmlyb25tZW50cywgd2hlcmUgbmV0d29yayBub2RlcyBhcmUgbGlt aXRlZCBpbiBDUFUsIG1lbW9yeSBhbmQgcG93ZXIuIDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0K PHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+UkVTVCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgaXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQg Zm9yIHN1Y2ggY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+SXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gb2JzZXJ2ZWQgdGhhdCBJbnRl cm5ldCBwcm90b2NvbHMgY2FuIGJlIGFwcGxpZWQgdG8gdGhlc2U8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48 L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cywg b2Z0ZW4gb25seSByZXF1aXJpbmcgbWlub3IgdHdlYWtpbmcgYW5kPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+ PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5wcm9maWxpbmcuIEluIG90aGVyIGNhc2Vz LCBuZXcgcHJvdG9jb2xzIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBkZWZpbmVkIHRvIGFkZHJlc3M8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwv c3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPnRoZSBzcGVjaWZpYyByZXF1aXJl bWVudHMgb2YgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBBbiBleGFtcGxlIG9mPG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5zdWNoIGEgcHJvdG9jb2wg aXMgdGhlIENvbnN0cmFpbmVkIEFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIChDb0FQKS48bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+QXMgaW4gb3RoZXIgZW52aXJv bm1lbnRzLCBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBxdWVzdGlvbnM8bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmFsc28gYXJpc2UgaW4g Y29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgYSBkb29yIGxvY2sgaGFzIHRv PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5hdXRob3Jp emUgdGhlIHBlcnNvbiBzZWVraW5nIGFjY2VzcyB1c2luZyBhICZxdW90O2RpZ2l0YWwga2V5JnF1 b3Q7LiBXaGVyZSBpcyB0aGU8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiPmF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gcG9saWN5IHN0b3JlZD8gSG93IGRvZXMgdGhlIGRpZ2l0 YWwga2V5IGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHdpdGg8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPnRoZSBsb2NrPyBEb2VzIHRoZSBsb2NrIGludGVyYWN0IHdpdGggYW4g YXV0aG9yaXphdGlvbiBzZXJ2ZXIgdG8gb2J0YWluPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5hdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uPyBIb3cgY2Fu IGFjY2VzcyBiZSB0ZW1wb3JhcmlseSBncmFudGVkIHRvPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5vdGhlciBwZXJzb25zPyBIb3cgY2FuIGFjY2VzcyBi ZSByZXZva2VkPyBUaGVzZSB0eXBlcyBvZiBxdWVzdGlvbnMgaGF2ZTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFu PjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+YmVlbiBhbnN3ZXJlZCBieSBleGlzdGlu ZyBwcm90b2NvbHMgZm9yIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBvdXRzaWRlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5lbnZpcm9ubWVudHMsIGhvd2V2 ZXIgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLCBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGFuZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ZGlmZmVyZW50IHJlcXVpcmVt ZW50cyBwb3NlIGNoYWxsZW5nZXMgZm9yIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgdmFyaW91cyBzZWN1cml0eTxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+cHJvdG9jb2xzLiBJ biBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUgbmVlZCBhcmlzZXMgZm9yIGEgZHluYW1pYyBhbmQgZmluZSBncmFp bmVkPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5hY2Nl c3MgY29udHJvbCBtZWNoYW5pc20sIHdoZXJlIGNsaWVudHMgYW5kL29yIHJlc291cmNlIHNlcnZl cnMgYXJlPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5j b25zdHJhaW5lZC48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1V UyI+VGhlIElFVEYgaGFzIGEgbG9uZyBoaXN0b3J5IGluIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgdGhyZWUtcGFydHkg YXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj5hdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29scyBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgZW52aXJv bm1lbnRzLiBFeGFtcGxlcyBpbmNsdWRlPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxz cGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5LZXJiZXJvcywgdGhlIFB1YmxpYyBLZXkgSW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUg KFBLSSksIGFuZCB0aGUgV2ViPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj5BdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFByb3RvY29sIChPQXV0aCkuIEFsbCB0aGVzZSBwcm90 b2NvbHMgZW5qb3kgd2lkZXNwcmVhZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3Bh biBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ZGVwbG95bWVudCBvbiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQuIEFsdGhvdWdoIHRoZXkg YWxsIGFpbSB0byBzb2x2ZSBhIHNpbWlsYXI8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+ PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmdvYWwsIGF0IGFuIGFic3RyYWN0IGxldmVsLCB0aGV5IG9mZmVy IHF1aXRlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgYW5kPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj51dGlsaXplIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtZXNzYWdlIGV4Y2hhbmdl cy4gVGhlc2UgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgcmVzdWx0IGZyb20gdGhlPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9w cmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5tYWluIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgdXNlIGNhc2VzIHRo ZXkgd2VyZSBkZXNpZ25lZCBmb3IgcmVzcGVjdGl2ZWx5LjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJl Pg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5SZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZGVyaXZlZCBmcm9tIHVzZSBj YXNlcyBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGUgc3VpdGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgZXhpc3Rpbmc8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPndvcmsgYXMgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3Ig Y29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLiBUaGVzZSBwcm90b2NvbHMsPG86cD48L286cD48L3Nw YW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5ob3dldmVyLCB3ZXJlIG5vdCBvcHRp bWl6ZWQgZm9yIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQWRkaXRpb25hbDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+cmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIHRoYXQg bmVlZCB0byBiZSB0YWtlbiBpbnRvIGFjY291bnQgYXJlIHRoZSBsYWNrIG9mIGE8bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPnN1aXRhYmxlIHVzZXItaW50 ZXJmYWNlIGFuZCB0aGUgaW5hYmlsaXR5IG9mIGVtYmVkZGVkIGRldmljZXMgdG8gY29udGFjdDxv OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+YW4gYXV0aG9y aXphdGlvbiBzZXJ2ZXIgaW4gcmVhbC10aW1lIHdpdGggZXZlcnkgcmVzb3VyY2UgYWNjZXNzIHJl cXVlc3Q8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmR1 ZSB0byBpbnRlcm1pdHRlbnQgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5LCBldGMuPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9w cmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3By ZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPlRoaXMgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCB0aGVyZWZvcmUg YWltcyB0byBwcm9kdWNlIGEgc3RhbmRhcmRpemVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvcjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+YXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1 dGhvcml6YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgYWNjZXNzIChHRVQsIFBVVCwgUE9TVCwg PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5ERUxFVEUp IHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGJ5IGEgVVJJIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgb24gYSByZXNvdXJj ZTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+c2VydmVy IGluIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4gQXMgYSBzdGFydGluZyBwb2ludCwgdGhlIHdv cmtpbmc8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmdy b3VwIHdpbGwgYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIHJlc291cmNlcyBhdCBhIHJlc291cmNlIHNl cnZlciBieSBhPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVT Ij5jbGllbnQgZGV2aWNlIHRha2VzIHBsYWNlIHVzaW5nIENvQVAgYW5kIGlzIHByb3RlY3RlZCBi eSBEVExTLiBCb3RoPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVO LVVTIj5yZXNvdXJjZSBzZXJ2ZXIgYW5kIGNsaWVudCBtYXkgYmUgY29uc3RyYWluZWQuIFRoaXMg YWNjZXNzIHdpbGwgYmU8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0i RU4tVVMiPm1lZGlhdGVkIGJ5IGFuIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb24gc2VydmVyLCB3aGljaCBpcyBub3Qg Y29uc2lkZXJlZCB0byBiZTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+Y29uc3RyYWluZWQuPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFu IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4g bGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPkV4aXN0aW5nIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIHBy b3RvY29scyB3aWxsIGJlIHVzZWQgd2hlcmU8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+ PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmFwcGxpY2FibGUgdG8gYnVpbGQgdGhlIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkLWVu dmlyb25tZW50IHNvbHV0aW9uLiBUaGlzIHJlcXVpcmVzPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5yZWxldmFudCBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucyB0byBiZSBy ZXZpZXdlZCBmb3Igc3VpdGFiaWxpdHksIHNlbGVjdGluZyBhPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9w cmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5zdWJzZXQgb2YgdGhlbSBhbmQgcmVzdHJpY3Rp bmcgdGhlIG9wdGlvbnMgd2l0aGluIGVhY2ggb2YgdGhlPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+ DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5zcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucy4gU29tZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFs aXR5LCBob3dldmVyLCBtYXkgbm90IGJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+ZXhpc3RpbmcgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBpbiB3aGlj aCBjYXNlIHRoZSBzb2x1dGlvbiBtYXkgYWxzbyBpbnZvbHZlIG5ldzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFu PjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+cHJvdG9jb2wgd29yay4gTGV2ZXJhZ2lu ZyBleGlzdGluZyB3b3JrIG1lYW5zIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGJlbmVmaXRzPG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5mcm9tIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBz ZWN1cml0eSBhbmFseXNpcywgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24sIGFuZCBkZXBsb3ltZW50PG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5leHBlcmllbmNlLiBNb3Jl b3ZlciwgYSBzdGFuZGFyZGl6ZWQgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGZlZGVyYXRlZDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+YXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIGF1 dGhvcml6YXRpb24gd2lsbCBoZWxwIHRvIHN0aW11bGF0ZSB0aGUgZGVwbG95bWVudDxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+b2YgY29uc3RyYWluZWQg ZGV2aWNlcyB0aGF0IHByb3ZpZGUgaW5jcmVhc2VkIHNlY3VyaXR5LjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFu PjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+ PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5PbmNlIHByb2dyZXNzIGluIGlkZW50aWZ5 aW5nIHN1aXRhYmxlIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgaGFzIGJlZW4gbWFkZSw8bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPnRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3Vw IHdpbGwgdmVyaWZ5IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtcyBhcmUgYWxzbzxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+YXBwbGljYWJsZSBiZXlv bmQgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBDb0FQIGFuZCBEVExTLCB3aGljaCBhcmUgdGhlIHR3byBtYWluPG86cD48 L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5wcm90b2NvbHMgdGhl IGdyb3VwIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gZm9yIGFjY2VzcyB0byByZXNvdXJjZXMuIEluPG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5wYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGUg YWJpbGl0eSB0byB1c2UgdGhlIGRldmVsb3BlZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBvdmVyIEhUVFAgYW5kIFRMUzxv OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+d2lsbCBiZSBp bnZlc3RpZ2F0ZWQuIE5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW5pdGlhbCBmb2N1cyBpcyBvbiBDb0FQIGFuZCBI VFRQIHdpdGggRFRMUyBhbmQgVExTLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3Bh biBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+T3RoZXIgc2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvdG9jb2xzIG1heSBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVk IGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgdGhlIHByaW1hcnkgZm9jdXMgaXMgbWFpbnRhaW5lZC4mbmJzcDsgPG86cD48 L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5UaGUgZ3JvdXAgaXMg c2NvcGVkIHRvIHdvcmsgb25seSBvbiB0aGUgd2ViIHByb3RvY29scyBhbmQgZGF0YSBjYXJyaWVk IHdpdGhpbiB0aGVtLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJF Ti1VUyI+RnVydGhlcm1vcmUsIHRvIGd1YXJhbnRlZSBzbW9vdGggdHJhbnNpdGlvbiwgdGhlPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5pbnRlZ3JhdGlv biB3aXRoIGV4aXN0aW5nIGRlcGxveW1lbnRzIHdpbGwgYmUgc3R1ZGllZCwgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5 PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5jb25jZXJu aW5nIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgcHJvdG9jb2wgdHJhbnNsYXRpb24gcHJveGllcy48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwv c3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+VGhpcyB3b3JrIGRvZXMgbm90IG1h a2UgdGhlIGFzc3VtcHRpb24gdGhhdCB0aGUgcGFydHkgb2ZmZXJpbmc8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPmFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGxheWVyIHNlcnZp Y2VzIGlzIGFsd2F5cyB0aGUgc2FtZSBwYXJ0eSBvZmZlcmluZyBuZXR3b3JrPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5hY2Nlc3Mgc2VydmljZXMuPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpwPiZuYnNw OzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPlRoZSB3b3JraW5n IGdyb3VwIGhhcyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRhc2tzOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0K PHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj4xKSBQcm9kdWNlIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBhbmQgcmVxdWlyZW1l bnRzPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj48bzpw PiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjIpIElk ZW50aWZ5IGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBhdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgc3VpdGFi bGUgZm9yPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5y ZXNvdXJjZSBhY2Nlc3MgaW4gY29uc3RyYWluZWQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3Nw YW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5NaWxlc3RvbmVzOjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5KdWwgMjAxNCBTdWJtaXQgJnF1 b3Q7VXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMmcXVvdDsgYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLjxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+RGVjIDIwMTQgU3VibWl0 ICZxdW90O0F1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBBdXRob3JpemF0aW9uIFNvbHV0aW9uJnF1b3Q7IGFz IGEgV0cgaXRlbS48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPkRlYyAyMDE0IE9wdGlvbmFsbHksIHN1Ym1pdCAmcXVvdDtVc2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIFJlcXVp cmVtZW50cyZxdW90OyBkb2N1bWVudCA8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNw YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPnRvIHRoZSBJRVNHIGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiBhcyBhbiBJbmZvcm1h dGlvbmFsIFJGQy48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4t VVMiPkp1bCAyMDE2IFN1Ym1pdCAmcXVvdDtBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgQXV0aG9yaXphdGlv biBTb2x1dGlvbiZxdW90OzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+c3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24gYXMgYSBQ cm9wb3NlZCBTdGFuZGFyZC48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxwcmU+PHNwYW4gbGFu Zz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5n PSJFTi1VUyI+UHJvcG9zZWQgTWlsZXN0b25lcyA8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3ByZT4NCjxw cmU+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPk5vIG1pbGVzdG9uZXMgZm9yIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZm91bmQuPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwv cHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+QWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOkFj ZUBpZXRmLm9yZyI+QWNlQGlldGYub3JnPC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPHBy ZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9hY2UiPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYWNl PC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcHJlPg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1z b05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MGNtO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206LjAwMDFwdDts aW5lLWhlaWdodDpub3JtYWwiPg0KPHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6 MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kyI+PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHByZT48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+LS0gPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+ PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5lbWFpbDogPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJz dHJ1aWsuZXh0QGdtYWlsLmNvbSI+cnN0cnVpay5leHRAZ21haWwuY29tPC9hPiB8IFNreXBlOiBy c3RydWlrPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8cHJlPjxzcGFuIGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIj5j ZWxsOiAmIzQzOzEgKDY0NykgODY3LTU2NTggfCBVUzogJiM0MzsxICg0MTUpIDY5MC03MzYzPG86 cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F2581440F7SZXEMA501MBXchi_-- From nobody Thu May 29 02:04:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786431A085E for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 02:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.154 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.154 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puS49Scl0eID for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 02:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx-out-2.rwth-aachen.de (mx-out-2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.5.187]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6803F1A079D for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 02:04:10 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,933,1392159600"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="235629395" Received: from mail-i4.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([137.226.12.21]) by mx-2.rz.rwth-aachen.de with ESMTP; 29 May 2014 11:04:05 +0200 Received: from messenger.nets.rwth-aachen.de (messenger.nets.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.13.40]) by mail-i4.nets.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9177A13DB83 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 11:04:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from MESSENGER.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([fe80::d4e:bb9d:9e0:bfee]) by MESSENGER.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([fe80::d4e:bb9d:9e0:bfee%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0218.012; Thu, 29 May 2014 11:04:05 +0200 From: Rene Hummen To: "ace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture Thread-Index: AQHPexzwTzVR7jeKOE+wltKCR/AOxQ== Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 09:04:04 +0000 Message-ID: <0B489B50-1745-41D0-AEE2-165E72EB22A2@comsys.rwth-aachen.de> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [37.201.227.69] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0DE76423-3318-4895-876F-EF162FB3676C"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/gXh9iKWJKjrMCrPcD4cEtuHXu1k Subject: [Ace] Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 09:04:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0DE76423-3318-4895-876F-EF162FB3676C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hello everyone, I briefly showed a simple idea on how to delegate the DTLS session = establishment to a dedicated server and to subsequently transfer the = established session state to a constrained device in a session ticket = during our meeting in Vancouver. Such delegation also affords = authorization of secure communication involving constrained devices. We = now have an accepted paper that presents this idea in more detail. You = can find the paper here: = http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/fileadmin/papers/2014/2014-hummen-secon-d= elegation.pdf Some of the presented aspects may be of interest within the scope of = ACE. Specifically: 1) The session ticket can be store at the more powerful end-point, = potentially relieving constrained devices from additional memory burden. = The session ticket may also contain fine-granular authorizations based = on RESTful resources. This is not described in the paper, but could be = added, e.g., based on Appendix A in [1]. 2) We consider revocation of authorized connections in the design of our = delegation architecture. In doing so, we aim at preventing the need for = time synchronization inside the constrained node network. 3) Constrained devices are only required to perform symmetric-key-based = DTLS handshakes, thus especially reducing the computation and memory = burden on constrained devices when compared to the use of public-key = cryptography. 4) The delegation server may use any type of DTLS handshake (as long as = it includes a session ticket exchange) for the session establishment and = is not required to be online after the handshake delegation. Unfortunately, I won=92t be able to join your meeting in Stockholm. = Still, my hope is that the information provided here is valuable input = for your pre-WG meeting. BR Ren=E9 [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-selander-core-access-control-02 -- Dipl.-Inform. Rene Hummen, Ph.D. Student Chair of Communication and Distributed Systems RWTH Aachen University, Germany tel: +49 241 80 21426 web: http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/team/rene-hummen/ --Apple-Mail=_0DE76423-3318-4895-876F-EF162FB3676C Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIOGzCCBCEw ggMJoAMCAQICAgDHMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRwwGgYDVQQKExNEZXV0 c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIEFHMR8wHQYDVQQLExZULVRlbGVTZWMgVHJ1c3QgQ2VudGVyMSMwIQYDVQQD ExpEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIFJvb3QgQ0EgMjAeFw0wNjEyMTkxMDI5MDBaFw0xOTA2MzAyMzU5 MDBaMFoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpERk4tVmVyZWluMRAwDgYDVQQLEwdERk4tUEtJ MSQwIgYDVQQDExtERk4tVmVyZWluIFBDQSBHbG9iYWwgLSBHMDEwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDpm8NnhfkNrvWNVMOWUDU9YuluTO2U1wBblSJ01CDrNI/W7MAxBAuZgeKm FNJSoCgjhIt0iQReW+DieMF4yxbLKDU5ey2QRdDtoAB6fL9KDhsAw4bpXCsxEXsM84IkQ4wcOItq aACa7txPeKvSxhObdq3u3ibo7wGvdA/BCaL2a869080UME/15eOkyGKbghoDJzANAmVgTe3RCSMq ljVYJ9N2xnG2kB3E7f81hn1vM7PbD8URwoqDoZRdQWvY0hD1TP3KUazZve+Sg7va64sWVlZDz+HV Ez2mHycwzUlU28kTNJpxdcVs6qcLmPkhnSevPqM5OUhqjK3JmfvDEvK9AgMBAAGjgdkwgdYwcAYD VR0fBGkwZzBloGOgYYZfaHR0cDovL3BraS50ZWxlc2VjLmRlL2NnaS1iaW4vc2VydmljZS9hZl9E b3dubG9hZEFSTC5jcmw/LWNybF9mb3JtYXQ9WF81MDkmLWlzc3Vlcj1EVF9ST09UX0NBXzIwHQYD VR0OBBYEFEm3xs/oPR9/6kR7Eyn38QpwPt5kMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFDHDeRu69VPXF+CJei0XbAqz K50zMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgECMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IB AQA74Vp3wEgX3KkY7IGvWonwvSiSpspZGBJw7Cjy565/lizn8l0ZMfYTK3S9vYCyufdnyTmieTvh ERHua3iRM347XyYndVNljjNj7s9zw7CSI0khUHUjoR8Y4pSFPT8z6XcgjaK95qGFKUD2P3MyWA0J a6bahWzAP7uNZmRWJE6uDT8yNQFb6YyC2XJZT7GGhfF0hVblw/hc843uR7NTBXDn5U2KaYMo4RMJ hp5eyOpYHgwf+aTUWgRo/Sg+iwK2WLX2oSw3VwBnqyNojWOl75lrXP1LVvarQIc01BGSbOyHxQoL BzNytG8MHVQs2FHHzL8w00Ny8TK/jM5JY6gA9/IcMIIE6DCCA9CgAwIBAgIECfJ04DANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQUFADBaMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTETMBEGA1UEChMKREZOLVZlcmVpbjEQMA4GA1UECxMHREZO LVBLSTEkMCIGA1UEAxMbREZOLVZlcmVpbiBQQ0EgR2xvYmFsIC0gRzAxMB4XDTA3MDIxNDExNDkz OFoXDTE5MDIxMzAwMDAwMFowXjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxFDASBgNVBAoTC1JXVEggQWFjaGVuMRcw FQYDVQQDEw5SV1RIIEFhY2hlbiBDQTEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRY2FAcnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUw ggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC4MAhk48jcelLfNUI5kvMv+CF54xJnL4x/ cJQnN2NId6CJ3fqs0siO2exIACfzdjxOUpQ6ZFOn5pdTvTi7stnk8WAaP/d9LFd8k9Gbxjh7xh3L +0a3ac+/tHJcX564ntUxGtVGMuShEoUaZUT5fw97TL36UJ8OqXLrqpdAKcFKaJ+pgRp2gTLj4MNU MPjA4GlstpjoLnT++qFm7t/ZS92/E3OqNJUwHH6C35vSroVscmg+a7XxT6U4JO99MYxNcTIMzhPS 9Ytp+302w7i51daBjr0hFGPK0nLSV6gv77zBSFJ7AVGJJxBSUzDn0xkDLYvZwqaeYkj8kDB2oSeR yfGjAgMBAAGjggGwMIIBrDAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQU btU+wBwvcck8v0lO72pVSOzR8jgwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUSbfGz+g9H3/qRHsTKffxCnA+3mQwHAYD VR0RBBUwE4ERY2FAcnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUwgYgGA1UdHwSBgDB+MD2gO6A5hjdodHRwOi8vY2Rw MS5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL2dsb2JhbC1yb290LWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMD2gO6A5hjdodHRw Oi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL2dsb2JhbC1yb290LWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMIGiBggr BgEFBQcBAQSBlTCBkjBHBggrBgEFBQcwAoY7aHR0cDovL2NkcDEucGNhLmRmbi5kZS9nbG9iYWwt cm9vdC1jYS9wdWIvY2FjZXJ0L2NhY2VydC5jcnQwRwYIKwYBBQUHMAKGO2h0dHA6Ly9jZHAyLnBj YS5kZm4uZGUvZ2xvYmFsLXJvb3QtY2EvcHViL2NhY2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB BQUAA4IBAQAXh37GLAscIHrVqQYrG5P/dYULxAseU6xuXKnSpVTnMWVFf1TtN/p2D+8XTKtl/A4W lYa9np+ONblWcS1nJsuYf7N9wrO4zCEcVBNLIAHCY3ZXG+IoNHwgXqSYqXHzrAQZjkSJr1RfbFE4 njUy0nNhtC51HX0ongWfqODc6z7aF9we20615Mh8Kk8uox4XgjLLV/UjPVlwRAnuYIeF0wycvQ6j z/PJMuOrXShpqejpaiRXqKx8oPXAlCcnoqRLlQc1L0iwQHBn0Em6tDmMHcahbf9SBOWiZ8+O0av4 ly8CQ95okz9hto9UErXUIzNea2AQXBtlIyLLKgVuYPf4i3IyMIIFBjCCA+6gAwIBAgIHFHkMp6Zz lDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEUMBIGA1UEChMLUldUSCBBYWNoZW4xFzAV BgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFjYUByd3RoLWFhY2hlbi5kZTAe Fw0xMjA5MTkwOTIzMzVaFw0xNTA5MTkwOTIzMzVaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtS V1RIIEFhY2hlbjEUMBIGA1UEAxMLUmVuZSBIdW1tZW4wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAw ggEKAoIBAQDDoo52P1ghFxnZmWNVnv7+qDKjyif4AoLkJrs7CVV34cRm/PhuW8WzLqOES0B0ENWE eDUez2Dc4inRNXdF5zMy36rLuKsK5MuznnXTzqYGMeGQAU7MkUvSZdMIWDpMdVc5nKzP81leStBY c3t6T2PNFHbeQEoHqjUNMQc9wfFWVQHTnQt9+kejn8NDMHqzKjJ+bnXm3byZCEs09CnmGli1irfJ cR6Fo4KcRMHKVrAHUG8NB+QyPv9RzEawbxwZgyDot5G/A4iRnX0aZ7OjB6ohkepKniBZqSMeOIu1 /Y7p6zYwqiLLywX1VtDQz067R4pkrT5h/IO/VcEGXukXqPA/AgMBAAGjggHsMIIB6DAvBgNVHSAE KDAmMBEGDysGAQQBga0hgiwBAQQCAzARBg8rBgEEAYGtIYIsAgEEAgMwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNV HQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBTAJpMHhUGI 9hiu0k6Ccd8MggDivTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRu1T7AHC9xyTy/SU7valVI7NHyODAsBgNVHREEJTAj gSFyZW5lLmh1bW1lbkBjb21zeXMucnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUweQYDVR0fBHIwcDA2oDSgMoYwaHR0 cDovL2NkcDEucGNhLmRmbi5kZS9yd3RoLWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMDagNKAyhjBodHRw Oi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgtY2EvcHViL2NybC9jYWNybC5jcmwwgZQGCCsGAQUFBwEB BIGHMIGEMEAGCCsGAQUFBzAChjRodHRwOi8vY2RwMS5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgtY2EvcHViL2Nh Y2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MEAGCCsGAQUFBzAChjRodHRwOi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgt Y2EvcHViL2NhY2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCA/Plhm3Cxu6mOs3O3 Wsl/9Ow7rbANrMvB2zxZW4yGJGu5FKaib+ir66xbpMAbmN4gqQmwuDMW+oWC7U+m9IfFG+T482Rz AvsYEOZUmq3Y0KFx87MEJdgaWtJ7PnlUaGtgQjdMso0pvAboZnp2pfxazq46lHXDgTCJsd7MUHb6 MzV9JpDzq0qnXeM2d+WxpOckuo11SAtXod+zuI9Udm7oUVIGeI8yFQrtHhtfESOmi57zSTseEYNS meInQtPv1ARHwuFRBcG5SkHDqbFZIw+2QVK2qq23NlTeBB/JfitX13NYdYNMgymz30iHXvxmB1nN fmJ9RDejQ4SVonYR7pLLMYIC5zCCAuMCAQEwaTBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEUMBIGA1UEChMLUldU SCBBYWNoZW4xFzAVBgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFjYUByd3Ro LWFhY2hlbi5kZQIHFHkMp6ZzlDAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBUzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNDA1MjkwOTA0MDRaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTScGfpP50o g8tZ7xBu8Spt3KPsojB4BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxazBpMF4xCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtS V1RIIEFhY2hlbjEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUldUSCBBYWNoZW4gQ0ExIDAeBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEWNhQHJ3 dGgtYWFjaGVuLmRlAgcUeQynpnOUMHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEU MBIGA1UEChMLUldUSCBBYWNoZW4xFzAVBgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhFjYUByd3RoLWFhY2hlbi5kZQIHFHkMp6ZzlDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQAnDFoLM5iN KdS3QaFHqeLxQO7yPDqqUYcPzxrk/ZeOi4dva84KdrN/0HMDMaTQHm+lh0Qdnl9WLenuoQsWVYO6 Pu4wcWhLJlSBfQ7MLmcCkoLvnisIvXNJlxphiXnbUsiHOa2qOZlayLVQB0ikjgm6bJIUeDX+2oBb StF1WMioPgVkMnzkUGflasL890uLWUnNnwmr+f45sN37R8zsnqv9eyYF7gSmTSIt3Je+4s2ZCSQ6 oI+V9qVB050J51Ku4l2/Y9uN3RUGpxXpUIdAdVy+AL08RR3UcLvsD37/SPsMC5HWm0dEpjzrVD+r Lr2XnWjKvnSoIfjrXU9YvBWyyRpwAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_0DE76423-3318-4895-876F-EF162FB3676C-- From nobody Thu May 29 08:55:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C13A1A6FB4; Thu, 29 May 2014 08:55:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBqeK4Wf2ruL; Thu, 29 May 2014 08:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58DA21A6F96; Thu, 29 May 2014 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4TFsZMC025616; Thu, 29 May 2014 17:54:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.146] (p54BC4594.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.188.69.148]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E112215CE; Thu, 29 May 2014 17:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5387583A.6040506@tzi.de> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 17:54:34 +0200 From: Stefanie Gerdes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rene Struik , Likepeng , Kathleen Moriarty , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/kLsC92-WeprDgg854KuED7diKLI Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 15:55:31 -0000 Hi everyone, On 05/26/2014 06:57 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > #RS-1: remove any suggestion that existing solutions are already known > to be suitable (this is still to be seen and part of the work of this > group). This removes the current tension between para 4 and para 6, > where para 4 says "indicate the suitability of existing work", whereas > para 6 suggests "this requires relevant specifications to be reviewed > for suitability". This is why I raised as concern in my original draft > review of April 10, 2014, 5:58pm EDT > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ace/current/msg00517.html) that > one should engage into this effort with open mind, without presorting > solution directions in the charter. > > OLD: > > Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing > > work as a solution for constrained environments > > NEW: > > Requirements derived from use cases may indicate that existingwork is > useful as basis for as a solution for constrained environments I think we can benefit from carefully reviewing existing protocols for their applicability to constrained environments. If we come to the conclusion that one of the proposed solutions is fitting, this is a good result. And we might have a clue afterwards which one of them fits best. The expectation is that some requirements of constrained environments can not easily be met by existing solutions and we might need to define profiles or extensions or otherwise bridge the gaps. We should be open for ideas and not try to fit a round piece through a square hole because it might work somehow. The need for an authentication and authorization solution for constrained environments came up in the CoRE working group. The reason for initiating the ACE working group is that the discussions about possible solutions took up so much time in CoRE that other topics of the group were delayed. > #RS-2: I would suggest scrapping the entire para 7, since much too > ambitious (one can easily recharter to take on more work or refocus at a > later stage). I made the same comment on the original draft charter > (April 10, 2014, 5:59pm EDT). > > > OLD: > > Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, > > the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also > > applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main > > protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In > > particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS > > will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP > > with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related > > transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, > > are out of scope. Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the > > integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly > > concerning the use of protocol translation proxies. > > > NEW: > > The working group will focus on CoAP and DTLS for access to resources. > Any other work will require rechartering. Concerning #RS-2: As I mentioned before I would be happy to leave speculations about future work after rechartering out of the charter. > > #RS-3: I would suggest taking more time for the use cases and > requirements than currently suggested. Given the lengthy discussion on > draft charter and ACE WG coming into operation potentially just prior to > the July 2014 IETF meeting, I would suggest being more reflective on use > cases and aiming for WG item here after November 2014 meeting (Dec 2014) > and IESG phase Apr 2015. Not much harm will be done here, since solution > and use cases can be co-developed in parallel and, moreover, one can > always strive for beating the schedule (overdelivering, so to speak). > > > OLD: > > Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. > > Dec 2014 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document > to the IESG for > > publication as an Informational RFC. > > > NEW: > > Dec 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. > > Apr 2015 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document > to the IESG for > > publication as an Informational RFC. #RS-3: The discussion about the Use cases and Requirements draft indicated that it would be beneficial to work on this draft in parallel while working on the solution. This is only possible if we set the milestone accordingly. Best regards, Steffi From nobody Thu May 29 10:49:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CC01A019F; Thu, 29 May 2014 10:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J-aa3aMGjxmG; Thu, 29 May 2014 10:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA00D1A018A; Thu, 29 May 2014 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4THmdLl003553; Thu, 29 May 2014 19:48:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.146] (p54BC4594.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.188.69.148]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A995C1602; Thu, 29 May 2014 19:48:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <538772F7.4080708@tzi.de> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 19:48:39 +0200 From: Stefanie Gerdes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rene Struik , Likepeng , Kathleen Moriarty , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" References: <20140514221215.8150.56543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B2A345@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F252B38978@SZXEMA501-MBS.china.huawei.com> <34966E97BE8AD64EAE9D3D6E4DEE36F258140E59@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <5383726F.30100@gmail.com> <5387583A.6040506@tzi.de> In-Reply-To: <5387583A.6040506@tzi.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/UXKykTHBUiEG8c5dxabrRXl_u6U Cc: Benoit Claise , "aaa-doctors@ietf.org" , The IESG , "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Revised charter proposal: charter-ietf-ace-00-02 X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 17:49:09 -0000 Maybe the purpose of my previous note was not clear enough. My intent was to reason why I support Renes proposed changes to the charter. Best regards, Steffi On 05/29/2014 05:54 PM, Stefanie Gerdes wrote: > Hi everyone, > > > On 05/26/2014 06:57 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > >> >> #RS-1: remove any suggestion that existing solutions are already known >> to be suitable (this is still to be seen and part of the work of this >> group). This removes the current tension between para 4 and para 6, >> where para 4 says "indicate the suitability of existing work", whereas >> para 6 suggests "this requires relevant specifications to be reviewed >> for suitability". This is why I raised as concern in my original draft >> review of April 10, 2014, 5:58pm EDT >> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ace/current/msg00517.html) that >> one should engage into this effort with open mind, without presorting >> solution directions in the charter. >> >> OLD: >> >> Requirements derived from use cases indicate the suitability of existing >> >> work as a solution for constrained environments >> >> NEW: >> >> Requirements derived from use cases may indicate that existingwork is >> useful as basis for as a solution for constrained environments > > I think we can benefit from carefully reviewing existing protocols for > their applicability to constrained environments. If we come to the > conclusion that one of the proposed solutions is fitting, this is a good > result. And we might have a clue afterwards which one of them fits best. > The expectation is that some requirements of constrained environments > can not easily be met by existing solutions and we might need to define > profiles or extensions or otherwise bridge the gaps. We should be open > for ideas and not try to fit a round piece through a square hole because > it might work somehow. > > The need for an authentication and authorization solution for > constrained environments came up in the CoRE working group. The reason > for initiating the ACE working group is that the discussions about > possible solutions took up so much time in CoRE that other topics of the > group were delayed. > > >> #RS-2: I would suggest scrapping the entire para 7, since much too >> ambitious (one can easily recharter to take on more work or refocus at a >> later stage). I made the same comment on the original draft charter >> (April 10, 2014, 5:59pm EDT). >> >> >> OLD: >> >> Once progress in identifying suitable candidate solutions has been made, >> >> the working group will verify whether the same mechanisms are also >> >> applicable beyond the use of CoAP and DTLS, which are the two main >> >> protocols the group will focus on for access to resources. In >> >> particular, the ability to use the developed solution over HTTP and TLS >> >> will be investigated. Note that the work is limited to CoAP and HTTP >> >> with DTLS and TLS. Other application protocols with their related >> >> transport protocols, and other protocols at other layers in the stack, >> >> are out of scope. Furthermore, to guarantee smooth transition, the >> >> integration with existing deployments will be studied, particularly >> >> concerning the use of protocol translation proxies. >> >> >> NEW: >> >> The working group will focus on CoAP and DTLS for access to resources. >> Any other work will require rechartering. > > Concerning #RS-2: As I mentioned before I would be happy to leave > speculations about future work after rechartering out of the charter. > >> >> #RS-3: I would suggest taking more time for the use cases and >> requirements than currently suggested. Given the lengthy discussion on >> draft charter and ACE WG coming into operation potentially just prior to >> the July 2014 IETF meeting, I would suggest being more reflective on use >> cases and aiming for WG item here after November 2014 meeting (Dec 2014) >> and IESG phase Apr 2015. Not much harm will be done here, since solution >> and use cases can be co-developed in parallel and, moreover, one can >> always strive for beating the schedule (overdelivering, so to speak). >> >> >> OLD: >> >> Jul 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. >> >> Dec 2014 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document >> to the IESG for >> >> publication as an Informational RFC. >> >> >> NEW: >> >> Dec 2014 Submit "Use cases and Requirements" as a WG item. >> >> Apr 2015 Submit Optionally submit "Use cases and Requirements" document >> to the IESG for >> >> publication as an Informational RFC. > > #RS-3: The discussion about the Use cases and Requirements draft > indicated that it would be beneficial to work on this draft in parallel > while working on the solution. This is only possible if we set the > milestone accordingly. > > Best regards, > Steffi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ace mailing list > Ace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace > -- Stefanie Gerdes Tel: +49 421 218 63906 TZI Universität Bremen E-Mail: gerdes@tzi.de Bibliothekstr. 1, MZH 5150 28359 Bremen, Germany From nobody Thu May 29 23:43:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713251A083B for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 23:43:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id craj7lteFIGK for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 23:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E89D1A02B0 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 23:43:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79746d000006fe2-ed-5388287e8125 Received: from ESESSHC019.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FC.AC.28642.E7828835; Fri, 30 May 2014 08:43:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB303.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.215]) by ESESSHC019.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 30 May 2014 08:43:09 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2cmFuIFNlbGFuZGVy?= To: Rene Hummen Thread-Topic: [Ace] Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture Thread-Index: AQHPexzwTzVR7jeKOE+wltKCR/AOxZtYjRQA Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 06:43:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0B489B50-1745-41D0-AEE2-165E72EB22A2@comsys.rwth-aachen.de> In-Reply-To: <0B489B50-1745-41D0-AEE2-165E72EB22A2@comsys.rwth-aachen.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-7F2E4A06-9A48-4E82-BBA3-97D61BC9D01D"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3RrdOoyPY4McidYvv33qYLVZ8sHBg 8li5rpHJY8mSn0wBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGRs7V7AWnDKr+HxkHUsD4z+TLkZODgkBE4k3 n9ayQ9hiEhfurWcDsYUEjjJK/Fmb3cXIBWQvYZS4dW4aC0iCTcBF4kHDIyYQW0TAWGLf/Utg zcwCihLr5vSBxYUFgiT+XuqFqgmW2HfxDxuEbSSxrmMfUD0HB4uAqsTXHyUgYV4Be4nmA8uY IfZ6SPza+pURxOYU8JRY238YbDwj0G3fT61hglglLnHryXwmiJtFJB5ePM0GYYtKvHz8jxXk ZmaByYwSPX2f2CEWCEqcnPmEZQKjyCwk/bOQ1c1CUgdRpCmxv3s5lK0oMaX7ITuEbS0x49dB NgjbVOL10Y+MyGoWMHKsYhQtTi0uzk03MtJLLcpMLi7Oz9PLSy3ZxAiMt4NbflvtYDz43PEQ owAHoxIP74LS9mAh1sSy4srcQ4zSHCxK4rwXNaqDhQTSE0tSs1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBK NTCulF6vpH32sNiLDpZPcys7GbaLifK0S7K7GjOo9fV+uz1X75L4efH/ajc38Ms9MOjTW7Mq 8cGnrUxOn84wmNkHl742vbg08o6rxSq5e5JTnSqTbq0zn96wqnrnyZBqf7Fzd5RSm4sWR0d+ Zo+SENv/7mNkjM+9tHnsv401eLfJXBdP4V9x764SS3FGoqEWc1FxIgACk6p1mAIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/36Uytt1Sj1xL8tvUFAVufqZ8l5M Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 06:43:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail-7F2E4A06-9A48-4E82-BBA3-97D61BC9D01D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUmVuw6kNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIGlucHV0LiANCg0KQXMgcGVvcGxlIG1heSBub3Qg aGF2ZSB0aGUgdGltZSB0byByZWFkIGl0IGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgbWVldGluZyBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2Ug dG8gc3VtbWFyaXplIHRoZSBjb250ZW50IGluIHRoZSBjb250ZXh0IG9mIHRoZSBtZWV0aW5nLiBJ J2xsIG1ha2UgYSB0cnksIHBsZWFzZSBjb3JyZWN0IG1lIGlmIEkgbWlzdW5kZXJzdG9vZC4gDQoN ClRoZSB0b3BpYyBmb3IgdGhlIG1lZXRpbmcgaXMgcHJvYmxlbSBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBhbmQgc29s dXRpb24gY29tcG9uZW50cy4gWW91ciBtYWluIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiB0byB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBk ZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBpcyBpc3N1ZXMgd2l0aCBEVExTIGhhbmRzaGFrZSBpbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBk ZXZpY2VzLCBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHkgd2l0aCBwcmVjaXNlIFJBTSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIGEg Y2VydGFpbiBsaWJyYXJ5LiANCg0KVGhlIG1haW4gc29sdXRpb24gY29tcG9uZW50IHByZXNlbnRl ZCBpcyBiYXNlZCBvbiByZWZlcmVuY2VzIHN1Y2ggYXMgWzEzXSBhbmQgWzE0XSBpbiB0aGUgY29u dGV4dCBvZiBhIFRydXN0ZWQgVGhpcmQgUGFydHksIHBsdXMgc29tZSBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGF1dGhv cml6YXRpb24vcmV2b2NhdGlvbiBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IG9mIHRoZSBUVFAuIA0KDQpJIHRoaW5r IHRoaXMgaXMgdXNlZnVsIGlucHV0IGFuZCANCmVuY291cmFnZSBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGhhdmUgdGhl IHRpbWUgdG8gdGFrZSBhIGxvb2sgYXQgeW91ciBwYXBlci4gDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkfDtnJhbg0K DQoNCg0KDQo+IE9uIDI5IG1haiAyMDE0LCBhdCAxMTowNCwgIlJlbmUgSHVtbWVuIiA8UmVuZS5I dW1tZW5AY29tc3lzLnJ3dGgtYWFjaGVuLmRlPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhlbGxvIGV2ZXJ5b25l LA0KPiANCj4gSSBicmllZmx5IHNob3dlZCBhIHNpbXBsZSBpZGVhIG9uIGhvdyB0byBkZWxlZ2F0 ZSB0aGUgRFRMUyBzZXNzaW9uIGVzdGFibGlzaG1lbnQgdG8gYSBkZWRpY2F0ZWQgc2VydmVyIGFu ZCB0byBzdWJzZXF1ZW50bHkgdHJhbnNmZXIgdGhlIGVzdGFibGlzaGVkIHNlc3Npb24gc3RhdGUg dG8gYSBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2UgaW4gYSBzZXNzaW9uIHRpY2tldCBkdXJpbmcgb3VyIG1l ZXRpbmcgaW4gVmFuY291dmVyLiBTdWNoIGRlbGVnYXRpb24gYWxzbyBhZmZvcmRzIGF1dGhvcml6 YXRpb24gb2Ygc2VjdXJlIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb24gaW52b2x2aW5nIGNvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGRldmlj ZXMuIFdlIG5vdyBoYXZlIGFuIGFjY2VwdGVkIHBhcGVyIHRoYXQgcHJlc2VudHMgdGhpcyBpZGVh IGluIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlsLiBZb3UgY2FuIGZpbmQgdGhlIHBhcGVyIGhlcmU6DQo+ICAgaHR0cDov L3d3dy5jb21zeXMucnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUvZmlsZWFkbWluL3BhcGVycy8yMDE0LzIwMTQtaHVt bWVuLXNlY29uLWRlbGVnYXRpb24ucGRmDQo+IA0KPiBTb21lIG9mIHRoZSBwcmVzZW50ZWQgYXNw ZWN0cyBtYXkgYmUgb2YgaW50ZXJlc3Qgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBzY29wZSBvZiBBQ0UuIFNwZWNpZmlj YWxseToNCj4gMSkgVGhlIHNlc3Npb24gdGlja2V0IGNhbiBiZSBzdG9yZSBhdCB0aGUgbW9yZSBw b3dlcmZ1bCBlbmQtcG9pbnQsIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IHJlbGlldmluZyBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZp Y2VzIGZyb20gYWRkaXRpb25hbCBtZW1vcnkgYnVyZGVuLiBUaGUgc2Vzc2lvbiB0aWNrZXQgbWF5 IGFsc28gY29udGFpbiBmaW5lLWdyYW51bGFyIGF1dGhvcml6YXRpb25zIGJhc2VkIG9uIFJFU1Rm dWwgcmVzb3VyY2VzLiBUaGlzIGlzIG5vdCBkZXNjcmliZWQgaW4gdGhlIHBhcGVyLCBidXQgY291 bGQgYmUgYWRkZWQsIGUuZy4sIGJhc2VkIG9uIEFwcGVuZGl4IEEgaW4gWzFdLg0KPiAyKSBXZSBj b25zaWRlciByZXZvY2F0aW9uIG9mIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgY29ubmVjdGlvbnMgaW4gdGhlIGRlc2ln biBvZiBvdXIgZGVsZWdhdGlvbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuIEluIGRvaW5nIHNvLCB3ZSBhaW0gYXQg cHJldmVudGluZyB0aGUgbmVlZCBmb3IgdGltZSBzeW5jaHJvbml6YXRpb24gaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBj b25zdHJhaW5lZCBub2RlIG5ldHdvcmsuDQo+IDMpIENvbnN0cmFpbmVkIGRldmljZXMgYXJlIG9u bHkgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gcGVyZm9ybSBzeW1tZXRyaWMta2V5LWJhc2VkIERUTFMgaGFuZHNoYWtl cywgdGh1cyBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHJlZHVjaW5nIHRoZSBjb21wdXRhdGlvbiBhbmQgbWVtb3J5IGJ1 cmRlbiBvbiBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBkZXZpY2VzIHdoZW4gY29tcGFyZWQgdG8gdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBw dWJsaWMta2V5IGNyeXB0b2dyYXBoeS4NCj4gNCkgVGhlIGRlbGVnYXRpb24gc2VydmVyIG1heSB1 c2UgYW55IHR5cGUgb2YgRFRMUyBoYW5kc2hha2UgKGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgaXQgaW5jbHVkZXMgYSBz ZXNzaW9uIHRpY2tldCBleGNoYW5nZSkgZm9yIHRoZSBzZXNzaW9uIGVzdGFibGlzaG1lbnQgYW5k IGlzIG5vdCByZXF1aXJlZCB0byBiZSBvbmxpbmUgYWZ0ZXIgdGhlIGhhbmRzaGFrZSBkZWxlZ2F0 aW9uLg0KPiANCj4gVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgSSB3b27igJl0IGJlIGFibGUgdG8gam9pbiB5b3Vy IG1lZXRpbmcgaW4gU3RvY2tob2xtLiBTdGlsbCwgbXkgaG9wZSBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBwcm92aWRlZCBoZXJlIGlzIHZhbHVhYmxlIGlucHV0IGZvciB5b3VyIHByZS1XRyBtZWV0 aW5nLg0KPiANCj4gQlINCj4gUmVuw6kNCj4gDQo+IFsxXSBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aHRtbC9kcmFmdC1zZWxhbmRlci1jb3JlLWFjY2Vzcy1jb250cm9sLTAyDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+ IC0tDQo+IERpcGwuLUluZm9ybS4gUmVuZSBIdW1tZW4sIFBoLkQuIFN0dWRlbnQNCj4gQ2hhaXIg b2YgQ29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgRGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgU3lzdGVtcw0KPiBSV1RIIEFhY2hlbiBV bml2ZXJzaXR5LCBHZXJtYW55DQo+IHRlbDogKzQ5IDI0MSA4MCAyMTQyNg0KPiB3ZWI6IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuY29tc3lzLnJ3dGgtYWFjaGVuLmRlL3RlYW0vcmVuZS1odW1tZW4vDQo+IA0KPiBfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBBY2UgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0DQo+IEFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2FjZQ0K --Apple-Mail-7F2E4A06-9A48-4E82-BBA3-97D61BC9D01D Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIENjCCBDIw ggMaoAMCAQICEHtTJxfiUvMl0Bd/t8Tw1ZwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMjAxMDUxMDE4 MDFaFw0xNTAxMDUxMDE3NTVaMGoxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMRcwFQYDVQQDDA5Hb3JhbiBT ZWxhbmRlcjEQMA4GA1UEBRMHZXJhZ29zZTEqMCgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYbZ29yYW4uc2VsYW5kZXJA ZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQCoRkv8ayxXzHcuvZdIylT5 4q5Wh+T0sJCBBmlBFdJ66o6i3ujdsau14+PAEymSFdJiRUdWWnWlLbC0kHMuI4+NXoV1mhKdO6Tf RhrA21SQueOlPbo+FC/4YVYpzGjYb56OV4clEQD7s+adCpB1lkIFvHzFouU+jq0a2bdU5rodCwID AQABo4IBhzCCAYMwgcAGA1UdHwSBuDCBtTCBsqCBr6CBrIY3aHR0cDovL2NybC50cnVzdC50ZWxp YS5jb20vRXJpY3Nzb25OTEluZGl2aWR1YWxDQTAxLmNybIZxbGRhcDovL2xkYXAudHJ1c3QudGVs aWEuY29tL2NuPUVyaWNzc29uJTIwTkwlMjBJbmRpdmlkdWFsJTIwQ0EwMSxvPUVyaWNzc29uP2Nl cnRpZmljYXRlcmV2b2NhdGlvbmxpc3Q7YmluYXJ5P2Jhc2UwJgYDVR0RBB8wHYEbZ29yYW4uc2Vs YW5kZXJAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tMEYGA1UdIAQ/MD0wOwYGKoVwawEBMDEwLwYIKwYBBQUHAgEWI2h0 dHA6Ly93d3cuZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tL2xlZ2FsLnNodG1sMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSS2i/SP2tRqoX/8+I2 GWBrRl6cpjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBSWJ8O43qVfXUQ+OVLlRbF2X2MwmzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBaAw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBADV5BUIfEjs3ZUQ2atW6jcdOgEpCYi7pLairVeDuBn/H/OCO8I4H 8KfnDTII7evN0BHw8wig+KvbtjvzzzbEv6bslrnqnC3G6pRN+F0cUVpTEuD4QGsdYqHLtlLHyHYU iCC13ohe8AjkLvo14BcF8gEZcvC0WNgBVaN0glAedJElmhcqX5ztsJ1Z9FMMkt6HFZvQDSdLvU3y 8IHUNIGLW96T4qLyDLI5s/mmFSNSu4n3GkgbRpiy3mFSi4ytPURSq9i7wZTO1zC8Pk80MXKANHun ciiKQqbBLYFEBbZU1hPpK87B+dlAtQsUxgu6MseHIyedWEsu7Je3lU6fR9E8MBQxggISMIICDgIB ATBNMDkxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMSQwIgYDVQQDDBtFcmljc3NvbiBOTCBJbmRpdmlkdWFs IENBMDECEHtTJxfiUvMl0Bd/t8Tw1ZwwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCARswGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqG SIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTQwNTMwMDY0MzA5WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUs27/ QgQcXT3kw7I36mSG4VlJwWAwXAYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMU8wTTA5MREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjEk MCIGA1UEAwwbRXJpY3Nzb24gTkwgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBDQTAxAhB7UycX4lLzJdAXf7fE8NWcMF4G CyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMU+gTTA5MREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjEkMCIGA1UEAwwbRXJpY3Nzb24g TkwgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBDQTAxAhB7UycX4lLzJdAXf7fE8NWcMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIGAeJHy G/lY5q+xwDDGj/uKwscGYaaDf+Rz5FyFcVfXODIrnFIYBtVwF6+tEACc7ps4sN7ViSUbCqEq/fId 4eeHidIPDjAb/7+phPh2hQH/7cRM40tfKwJwIPvjI+FVMd3vqA9V2guQ6y0PmA3/xuWueKOiw4tg D2cwWfO+Z1dA10wAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-7F2E4A06-9A48-4E82-BBA3-97D61BC9D01D-- From nobody Fri May 30 02:12:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5331A6F13 for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 02:12:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUZAU55OKlLd for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 02:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx-out-1.rwth-aachen.de (mx-out-1.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.5.186]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E49221A03C2 for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 02:12:33 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,940,1392159600"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="324593008" Received: from mail-i4.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([137.226.12.21]) by mx-1.rz.rwth-aachen.de with ESMTP; 30 May 2014 11:12:28 +0200 Received: from messenger.nets.rwth-aachen.de (messenger.nets.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.13.40]) by mail-i4.nets.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED4613DB83; Fri, 30 May 2014 11:12:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from MESSENGER.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([fe80::d4e:bb9d:9e0:bfee]) by MESSENGER.nets.rwth-aachen.de ([fe80::d4e:bb9d:9e0:bfee%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0218.012; Fri, 30 May 2014 11:12:28 +0200 From: Rene Hummen To: =?Windows-1252?Q?G=F6ran_Selander?= Thread-Topic: [Ace] Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture Thread-Index: AQHPexzwTzVR7jeKOE+wltKCR/AOxZtYjRQAgAAptwA= Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:12:27 +0000 Message-ID: <7984B503-1DEE-4039-9C11-D2858FBDBCE8@comsys.rwth-aachen.de> References: <0B489B50-1745-41D0-AEE2-165E72EB22A2@comsys.rwth-aachen.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [37.201.227.69] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F4772968-7695-4948-82FF-07CCAF5556C3"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/bk10hw_LIptb_9aksW9QaLnFL94 Cc: "ace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ace] Input for pre-WG meeting - paper on a delegation architecture X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:12:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F4772968-7695-4948-82FF-07CCAF5556C3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi G=F6ran, thanks for the summary. Inline you find a few additional comments. On 30 May 2014, at 08:43, G=F6ran Selander = wrote: > Hi Ren=E9 >=20 > Thanks for your input.=20 >=20 > As people may not have the time to read it before the meeting I would = like to summarize the content in the context of the meeting. I'll make a = try, please correct me if I misunderstood.=20 >=20 > The topic for the meeting is problem description and solution = components. Your main contribution to the problem description is issues = with DTLS handshake in constrained devices, specifically with precise = RAM requirements for a certain library. RAM requirements are only one aspect tackled in the paper. Specifically, = we provide evaluation results regarding the RAM/ROM, computation, and = transmission overheads for the certificate, symmetric-key, and session = resumption handshakes of DTLS. This should provide a good overview of = the overheads to be expected in constrained node networks. In my opinion, especially the overheads incurred by the = symmetric-key-based DTLS handshake could denote a baseline of comparison = for solutions considered in the scope of ACE. > The main solution component presented is based on references such as = [13] and [14] in the context of a Trusted Third Party, plus some = additional authorization/revocation functionality of the TTP. Exactly, we use session tickets from the session resumption mechanism as = a DTLS-native means to carry (implicit) authorization information from a = TTP to a constrained device. These session tickets could also contain = more fine-granular authorization information (see my previous email). As = I understand from our pre-ACE discussions, these are two critical = solution components. Moreover, the topic of revocation came up a couple of times during our = pre-ACE meetings. Hence, our ideas how to revoke authorizations may also = be of interest for a solution in the context of ACE. > I think this is useful input and=20 > encourage people who have the time to take a look at your paper.=20 Thanks, Ren=E9 >> On 29 maj 2014, at 11:04, "Rene Hummen" = wrote: >>=20 >> Hello everyone, >>=20 >> I briefly showed a simple idea on how to delegate the DTLS session = establishment to a dedicated server and to subsequently transfer the = established session state to a constrained device in a session ticket = during our meeting in Vancouver. Such delegation also affords = authorization of secure communication involving constrained devices. We = now have an accepted paper that presents this idea in more detail. You = can find the paper here: >> = http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/fileadmin/papers/2014/2014-hummen-secon-d= elegation.pdf >>=20 >> Some of the presented aspects may be of interest within the scope of = ACE. Specifically: >> 1) The session ticket can be store at the more powerful end-point, = potentially relieving constrained devices from additional memory burden. = The session ticket may also contain fine-granular authorizations based = on RESTful resources. This is not described in the paper, but could be = added, e.g., based on Appendix A in [1]. >> 2) We consider revocation of authorized connections in the design of = our delegation architecture. In doing so, we aim at preventing the need = for time synchronization inside the constrained node network. >> 3) Constrained devices are only required to perform = symmetric-key-based DTLS handshakes, thus especially reducing the = computation and memory burden on constrained devices when compared to = the use of public-key cryptography. >> 4) The delegation server may use any type of DTLS handshake (as long = as it includes a session ticket exchange) for the session establishment = and is not required to be online after the handshake delegation. >>=20 >> Unfortunately, I won=92t be able to join your meeting in Stockholm. = Still, my hope is that the information provided here is valuable input = for your pre-WG meeting. >>=20 >> BR >> Ren=E9 >>=20 >> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-selander-core-access-control-02 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Dipl.-Inform. Rene Hummen, Ph.D. Student >> Chair of Communication and Distributed Systems >> RWTH Aachen University, Germany >> tel: +49 241 80 21426 >> web: http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/team/rene-hummen/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ace mailing list >> Ace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace -- Dipl.-Inform. Rene Hummen, Ph.D. Student Chair of Communication and Distributed Systems RWTH Aachen University, Germany tel: +49 241 80 21426 web: http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/team/rene-hummen/ --Apple-Mail=_F4772968-7695-4948-82FF-07CCAF5556C3 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIOGzCCBCEw ggMJoAMCAQICAgDHMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRwwGgYDVQQKExNEZXV0 c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIEFHMR8wHQYDVQQLExZULVRlbGVTZWMgVHJ1c3QgQ2VudGVyMSMwIQYDVQQD ExpEZXV0c2NoZSBUZWxla29tIFJvb3QgQ0EgMjAeFw0wNjEyMTkxMDI5MDBaFw0xOTA2MzAyMzU5 MDBaMFoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpERk4tVmVyZWluMRAwDgYDVQQLEwdERk4tUEtJ MSQwIgYDVQQDExtERk4tVmVyZWluIFBDQSBHbG9iYWwgLSBHMDEwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDpm8NnhfkNrvWNVMOWUDU9YuluTO2U1wBblSJ01CDrNI/W7MAxBAuZgeKm FNJSoCgjhIt0iQReW+DieMF4yxbLKDU5ey2QRdDtoAB6fL9KDhsAw4bpXCsxEXsM84IkQ4wcOItq aACa7txPeKvSxhObdq3u3ibo7wGvdA/BCaL2a869080UME/15eOkyGKbghoDJzANAmVgTe3RCSMq ljVYJ9N2xnG2kB3E7f81hn1vM7PbD8URwoqDoZRdQWvY0hD1TP3KUazZve+Sg7va64sWVlZDz+HV Ez2mHycwzUlU28kTNJpxdcVs6qcLmPkhnSevPqM5OUhqjK3JmfvDEvK9AgMBAAGjgdkwgdYwcAYD VR0fBGkwZzBloGOgYYZfaHR0cDovL3BraS50ZWxlc2VjLmRlL2NnaS1iaW4vc2VydmljZS9hZl9E b3dubG9hZEFSTC5jcmw/LWNybF9mb3JtYXQ9WF81MDkmLWlzc3Vlcj1EVF9ST09UX0NBXzIwHQYD VR0OBBYEFEm3xs/oPR9/6kR7Eyn38QpwPt5kMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFDHDeRu69VPXF+CJei0XbAqz K50zMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgECMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IB AQA74Vp3wEgX3KkY7IGvWonwvSiSpspZGBJw7Cjy565/lizn8l0ZMfYTK3S9vYCyufdnyTmieTvh ERHua3iRM347XyYndVNljjNj7s9zw7CSI0khUHUjoR8Y4pSFPT8z6XcgjaK95qGFKUD2P3MyWA0J a6bahWzAP7uNZmRWJE6uDT8yNQFb6YyC2XJZT7GGhfF0hVblw/hc843uR7NTBXDn5U2KaYMo4RMJ hp5eyOpYHgwf+aTUWgRo/Sg+iwK2WLX2oSw3VwBnqyNojWOl75lrXP1LVvarQIc01BGSbOyHxQoL BzNytG8MHVQs2FHHzL8w00Ny8TK/jM5JY6gA9/IcMIIE6DCCA9CgAwIBAgIECfJ04DANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQUFADBaMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTETMBEGA1UEChMKREZOLVZlcmVpbjEQMA4GA1UECxMHREZO LVBLSTEkMCIGA1UEAxMbREZOLVZlcmVpbiBQQ0EgR2xvYmFsIC0gRzAxMB4XDTA3MDIxNDExNDkz OFoXDTE5MDIxMzAwMDAwMFowXjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxFDASBgNVBAoTC1JXVEggQWFjaGVuMRcw FQYDVQQDEw5SV1RIIEFhY2hlbiBDQTEgMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYRY2FAcnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUw ggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC4MAhk48jcelLfNUI5kvMv+CF54xJnL4x/ cJQnN2NId6CJ3fqs0siO2exIACfzdjxOUpQ6ZFOn5pdTvTi7stnk8WAaP/d9LFd8k9Gbxjh7xh3L +0a3ac+/tHJcX564ntUxGtVGMuShEoUaZUT5fw97TL36UJ8OqXLrqpdAKcFKaJ+pgRp2gTLj4MNU MPjA4GlstpjoLnT++qFm7t/ZS92/E3OqNJUwHH6C35vSroVscmg+a7XxT6U4JO99MYxNcTIMzhPS 9Ytp+302w7i51daBjr0hFGPK0nLSV6gv77zBSFJ7AVGJJxBSUzDn0xkDLYvZwqaeYkj8kDB2oSeR yfGjAgMBAAGjggGwMIIBrDAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQU btU+wBwvcck8v0lO72pVSOzR8jgwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUSbfGz+g9H3/qRHsTKffxCnA+3mQwHAYD VR0RBBUwE4ERY2FAcnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUwgYgGA1UdHwSBgDB+MD2gO6A5hjdodHRwOi8vY2Rw MS5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL2dsb2JhbC1yb290LWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMD2gO6A5hjdodHRw Oi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL2dsb2JhbC1yb290LWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMIGiBggr BgEFBQcBAQSBlTCBkjBHBggrBgEFBQcwAoY7aHR0cDovL2NkcDEucGNhLmRmbi5kZS9nbG9iYWwt cm9vdC1jYS9wdWIvY2FjZXJ0L2NhY2VydC5jcnQwRwYIKwYBBQUHMAKGO2h0dHA6Ly9jZHAyLnBj YS5kZm4uZGUvZ2xvYmFsLXJvb3QtY2EvcHViL2NhY2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB BQUAA4IBAQAXh37GLAscIHrVqQYrG5P/dYULxAseU6xuXKnSpVTnMWVFf1TtN/p2D+8XTKtl/A4W lYa9np+ONblWcS1nJsuYf7N9wrO4zCEcVBNLIAHCY3ZXG+IoNHwgXqSYqXHzrAQZjkSJr1RfbFE4 njUy0nNhtC51HX0ongWfqODc6z7aF9we20615Mh8Kk8uox4XgjLLV/UjPVlwRAnuYIeF0wycvQ6j z/PJMuOrXShpqejpaiRXqKx8oPXAlCcnoqRLlQc1L0iwQHBn0Em6tDmMHcahbf9SBOWiZ8+O0av4 ly8CQ95okz9hto9UErXUIzNea2AQXBtlIyLLKgVuYPf4i3IyMIIFBjCCA+6gAwIBAgIHFHkMp6Zz lDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEUMBIGA1UEChMLUldUSCBBYWNoZW4xFzAV BgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFjYUByd3RoLWFhY2hlbi5kZTAe Fw0xMjA5MTkwOTIzMzVaFw0xNTA5MTkwOTIzMzVaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtS V1RIIEFhY2hlbjEUMBIGA1UEAxMLUmVuZSBIdW1tZW4wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAw ggEKAoIBAQDDoo52P1ghFxnZmWNVnv7+qDKjyif4AoLkJrs7CVV34cRm/PhuW8WzLqOES0B0ENWE eDUez2Dc4inRNXdF5zMy36rLuKsK5MuznnXTzqYGMeGQAU7MkUvSZdMIWDpMdVc5nKzP81leStBY c3t6T2PNFHbeQEoHqjUNMQc9wfFWVQHTnQt9+kejn8NDMHqzKjJ+bnXm3byZCEs09CnmGli1irfJ cR6Fo4KcRMHKVrAHUG8NB+QyPv9RzEawbxwZgyDot5G/A4iRnX0aZ7OjB6ohkepKniBZqSMeOIu1 /Y7p6zYwqiLLywX1VtDQz067R4pkrT5h/IO/VcEGXukXqPA/AgMBAAGjggHsMIIB6DAvBgNVHSAE KDAmMBEGDysGAQQBga0hgiwBAQQCAzARBg8rBgEEAYGtIYIsAgEEAgMwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNV HQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBTAJpMHhUGI 9hiu0k6Ccd8MggDivTAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRu1T7AHC9xyTy/SU7valVI7NHyODAsBgNVHREEJTAj gSFyZW5lLmh1bW1lbkBjb21zeXMucnd0aC1hYWNoZW4uZGUweQYDVR0fBHIwcDA2oDSgMoYwaHR0 cDovL2NkcDEucGNhLmRmbi5kZS9yd3RoLWNhL3B1Yi9jcmwvY2FjcmwuY3JsMDagNKAyhjBodHRw Oi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgtY2EvcHViL2NybC9jYWNybC5jcmwwgZQGCCsGAQUFBwEB BIGHMIGEMEAGCCsGAQUFBzAChjRodHRwOi8vY2RwMS5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgtY2EvcHViL2Nh Y2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MEAGCCsGAQUFBzAChjRodHRwOi8vY2RwMi5wY2EuZGZuLmRlL3J3dGgt Y2EvcHViL2NhY2VydC9jYWNlcnQuY3J0MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCA/Plhm3Cxu6mOs3O3 Wsl/9Ow7rbANrMvB2zxZW4yGJGu5FKaib+ir66xbpMAbmN4gqQmwuDMW+oWC7U+m9IfFG+T482Rz AvsYEOZUmq3Y0KFx87MEJdgaWtJ7PnlUaGtgQjdMso0pvAboZnp2pfxazq46lHXDgTCJsd7MUHb6 MzV9JpDzq0qnXeM2d+WxpOckuo11SAtXod+zuI9Udm7oUVIGeI8yFQrtHhtfESOmi57zSTseEYNS meInQtPv1ARHwuFRBcG5SkHDqbFZIw+2QVK2qq23NlTeBB/JfitX13NYdYNMgymz30iHXvxmB1nN fmJ9RDejQ4SVonYR7pLLMYIC5zCCAuMCAQEwaTBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEUMBIGA1UEChMLUldU SCBBYWNoZW4xFzAVBgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhFjYUByd3Ro LWFhY2hlbi5kZQIHFHkMp6ZzlDAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBUzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNDA1MzAwOTEyMjdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRzAh2rAgpq 5CsHvtm8a2rW1aSlXjB4BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxazBpMF4xCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtS V1RIIEFhY2hlbjEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUldUSCBBYWNoZW4gQ0ExIDAeBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEWNhQHJ3 dGgtYWFjaGVuLmRlAgcUeQynpnOUMHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBeMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEU MBIGA1UEChMLUldUSCBBYWNoZW4xFzAVBgNVBAMTDlJXVEggQWFjaGVuIENBMSAwHgYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhFjYUByd3RoLWFhY2hlbi5kZQIHFHkMp6ZzlDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQCpXshopRAE iT3yheI8g6TGCGB6wT7e2cmwg3RJUXCiGxIOnvaozOuGEalptl9H0R3PD7lufOhhoqSr1QQmuXEm 3nYO0kQ0zzvlW5qao9nRo1+WKDAVyKLTD/xcTaGWXk0EbZnQnHsmgESxDiGmlctBJHJNiKMDzJlW HzlcCl2Tf1T0rgF7b+jUlz7hEKWMAiIYGEdFJ/JRmGtpN9nHv9pjBzuzg7gyLFteQbgkwSGyv/gr Ex+RV/5dOlU9/NSiHwhxHS3Wl8djdc/tipzYuIW29jm8RRSwr852iNp01qwJnrX8B0aDUbERxekZ 7QhEOHf2f4VhP9EprG9Tdi41R7CVAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_F4772968-7695-4948-82FF-07CCAF5556C3-- From nobody Fri May 30 07:19:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2B61A7026 for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:19:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DArN6k4bZXVT for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAAF71A090E for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 07:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4UEIsKx007032 for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 16:18:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [134.102.218.214] (dynamic-218-o.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.214]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9846A1905 for ; Fri, 30 May 2014 16:18:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5388931E.2040403@tzi.de> Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 16:18:06 +0200 From: Stefanie Gerdes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ace@ietf.org" References: <20140530140020.4640.16753.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140530140020.4640.16753.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20140530140020.4640.16753.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/6FFm1nFG6xB8ROv3XW1_O0nePmc Subject: [Ace] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00.txt X-BeenThere: ace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments \(ace\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 14:19:13 -0000 Hi everyone, I submitted a draft about actors in the ACE architecture. The various actors, their respective tasks and characteristics are described. I hope that this will help us to derive the security requirements on each level in the architecture. This document is also intended as input for the pre-WG meeting in Stockholm. A PDF version with more detailed graphics can be found at http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00.pdf Gruesse Steffi -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00.txt Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 07:00:20 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Stefanie Gerdes , Stefanie Gerdes A new version of I-D, draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Stefanie Gerdes and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-gerdes-ace-actors Revision: 00 Title: Actors in the ACE Architecture Document date: 2014-05-30 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 8 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gerdes-ace-actors/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gerdes-ace-actors-00 Abstract: Constrained nodes are small devices which are limited in terms of processing power, memory, non-volatile storage and transmission capacity. Due to these constraints, commonly used security protocols are not easily applicable. Nevertheless, an authentication and authorization solution is needed to ensure the security of these devices. This document defines actors in the security architecture for authentication and authorization, analyzes the relationships between them, and describes their respective tasks and characteristics. This knowledge will then be used to derive requirements for the communication between the actors. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat