From nobody Mon Feb 1 19:04:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF023A16D1; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:04:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IETF Executive Director To: "IETF Announcement List" Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 19:04:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 03:04:40 -0000 The IETF Administration LLC recently consulted on changes to the process it uses to identify and select venues for IETF meetings [1] and is now implementing the changes. We are now consulting on the specifics of the assessment step of the new process. This venue assessment step is based around a proposed new venue asessment report [2] which records whether or not a proposed venue satisfies the following criteria, following the guidelines in RFC 8718 [3]: * City includes one or more venues able to accommodate an IETF meeting * The level of Internet freedom is acceptable * An overwhelming majority of participants who wish to do so can attend * Travel risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable * Health risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable * Human rights risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable To assess each criterion there are a number of formal tests as set out in the report. The tests apply at either the country, city or venue level and for some tests exceptions are possible as documented. For example, one formal test is that Internet Freedom score for the country from Freedom House is “Free” (70/100 or above) though city or venue exceptions may override that. If a venue fails any of the tests then it is deemed to have failed the assessment. This report is used in the initial assessment step, as follows: > Once a recommendation has been accepted, the IETF LLC carries out an initial assessment by remotely researching the city and any potential venues in that city. The output of this step is a draft report that assesses if the city is likely to meet or not meet the requirements and a recommendation on whether or not to consider the city any further. The draft report is then consulted on, as follows: > We then seek community feedback on the assessment report and recommendation. This feedback is assessed and published in a public repository [4]. Depending on the feedback received, we may advance the city to the next step, or return to step 2 and conduct further remote research, or we may reject the city and update the Meeting Location Assessment table [5]. You can provide feedback on the proposed new venue asessment report in one of the following ways: * Email to admin-discuss@ietf.org * By raising an issue on the GitHub repository [6] * Direct to me exec-director@ietf.org Please provide any feedback before Sunday 21 February 2021. [1] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-identification-and-selection-process-consultation [2] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation/blob/main/IETF%20Venue%20Assessment%20Report.pdf [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8718 [4] https://trello.com/b/whq8I098/venue-selection-input [5] https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/meeting-location-input/ [6] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org From nobody Mon Feb 1 19:35:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B5B3A16FA for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wDWEplTDaeAF for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6046D3A16FC for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FAFBE53 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 03:35:20 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v7vXI2W-DznW for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 03:35:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 05D26BE50 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 03:35:17 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1612236917; bh=IH69pfUbvWN1AqLdqBC9Hu1/Bk/wD0GB0xK2VRHba6c=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=1TxEyoLoa9HbnLZY+4ECGbSk+Wt2iZThbiG6P9MtNyOwdFGDLMuzPyjOrIt35ZCtA JW4gyTB2t03x22SDv4JRBqorGhrKJJQairTIaSGStPT8Cb5woloFVJ8aUCyXTRSasW 1z+qm8W7t3ETdiZJvRD05FqV+gnfflCaueBffFac= To: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <7c6b7a36-7c73-bfcc-3c3e-bcd54ac361d8@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 03:35:13 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0X4PkECb37NIS5L0piYlmFF0PyQvNYiHd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 03:35:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0X4PkECb37NIS5L0piYlmFF0PyQvNYiHd Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="yrDjNvRKtXiJG6wK7zOF6uom9mtH5pkLL"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <7c6b7a36-7c73-bfcc-3c3e-bcd54ac361d8@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment References: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> --yrDjNvRKtXiJG6wK7zOF6uom9mtH5pkLL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EF997DBE0DE71309DCDF2F88" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EF997DBE0DE71309DCDF2F88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, There's a reference to [1] in there. That won't fly if "no data" =3D> "<70/100" and hence "fail." I totally agree with "Internet freedom" as a goal, but [1] is not a good yardstick at least as rendered for me. I'd suggest first running the rule over some recent and obviously acceptable venues - if a pile of those supposedly now fail, that may well imply the criteria are dodgy. Looking at [1], I'd guess a significant pile of recent acceptable venues ostensibly "fail" which I think means that the "exceptions may apply" get out of jail clause isn't really appropriate if it needs to be used that often. I've not considered the other suggested criteria. They may be sound (and I'm sure the motivation is sound) but the flakiness of [1] is a bit off-putting. Cheers, S. [1] https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=3Dfotn&year=3D2019 On 02/02/2021 03:04, IETF Executive Director wrote: > The IETF Administration LLC recently consulted on changes to the proces= s it uses to identify and select venues for IETF meetings [1] and is now = implementing the changes. We are now consulting on the specifics of the = assessment step of the new process. >=20 > This venue assessment step is based around a proposed new venue asessme= nt report [2] which records whether or not a proposed venue satisfies the= following criteria, following the guidelines in RFC 8718 [3]: >=20 > * City includes one or more venues able to accommodate an IETF meeting > * The level of Internet freedom is acceptable > * An overwhelming majority of participants who wish to do so can attend= > * Travel risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable > * Health risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable > * Human rights risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are accept= able > =20 > To assess each criterion there are a number of formal tests as set out = in the report. The tests apply at either the country, city or venue leve= l and for some tests exceptions are possible as documented. For example, = one formal test is that Internet Freedom score for the country from Freed= om House is =E2=80=9CFree=E2=80=9D (70/100 or above) though city or venue= exceptions may override that. If a venue fails any of the tests then it= is deemed to have failed the assessment. >=20 > This report is used in the initial assessment step, as follows: >=20 >> Once a recommendation has been accepted, the IETF LLC carries out an i= nitial assessment by remotely researching the city and any potential venu= es in that city. The output of this step is a draft report that assesses= if the city is likely to meet or not meet the requirements and a recomme= ndation on whether or not to consider the city any further. >=20 > The draft report is then consulted on, as follows: >=20 >> We then seek community feedback on the assessment report and recommend= ation. This feedback is assessed and published in a public repository [4= ]. Depending on the feedback received, we may advance the city to the ne= xt step, or return to step 2 and conduct further remote research, or we m= ay reject the city and update the Meeting Location Assessment table [5]. >=20 >=20 > You can provide feedback on the proposed new venue asessment report in = one of the following ways: >=20 > * Email to admin-discuss@ietf.org > * By raising an issue on the GitHub repository [6] > * Direct to me exec-director@ietf.org >=20 > Please provide any feedback before Sunday 21 February 2021. >=20 >=20 > [1] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-identification-and-selection-pro= cess-consultation > [2] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation/blob/mai= n/IETF%20Venue%20Assessment%20Report.pdf > [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8718 > [4] https://trello.com/b/whq8I098/venue-selection-input > [5] https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/meeting-location-input/= > [6] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation >=20 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filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAmAYyHEFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+oM 9w/8Cg5pTx/2XqXzwqhrcQ17NEga7D2yLyTG/iT3CFwqgv3qKHpg+5WZ20UHSCjRkgm6vnJ5wPqw goN3xPryDGCzPslyopZBIRbGB4yg8NTI0Oxbv0mN0zaaVnxeJf02et9k1r5ZpzqDrRNbYqu5h8cd Uv64Ww+o5C1gsYKYF6uOI+sRhvoHsngRydBx1Tlisy82TvO///U+AYz7K1/AGXT8zmB/wGfilocY uWjYiZ1XWgUaj/s061N1a2U+io3uShQDlWYeVWPlmUDdBvwwTgOEdV5iplZbjeKlozcB8YNpEFI8 EDMhYLABO65ch9aDCchCSd1zdShJe+n4hzLla5r1n62oOVozG2DjAMEzj3tjiZBq83+fceOM/zQR wyOxacNnXweqY6f/7xVdozSEiVrT67SyriHGMxZ8rsNU4XJsdGw6sGaCxSH9MoyqYL5xO5qq5Hna wKOrczBbIdNOhH67VZdImgW2Wg7lJiccBMW0akpHaOKmZ4LPK6U5oh2NcPTrfDg5dnn0MwEB26Dz cPEHpfrW8CV8vC2f04Q+SfXfG+Tw7y97LxTaUQsU0gZTHhcgFWscs6bKAgQGcOOQ/Zki8NwaLbJr yEnGPzfTiNYoYQ+Xm+z7sSBg6U8W+8zzgcJjWKzXjqnNQQ8jOggQkmLMTfDdYp1zxd0F5J5zYyhT 4Do= =H77I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0X4PkECb37NIS5L0piYlmFF0PyQvNYiHd-- From nobody Mon Feb 1 19:54:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9583C3A1706 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:54:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wLnLS7aFVDba; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F3143A131B; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 19:54:32 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7EC0E209-E161-4F36-A382-EEFE28F37972 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jay Daley In-Reply-To: <7c6b7a36-7c73-bfcc-3c3e-bcd54ac361d8@cs.tcd.ie> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:54:30 +1300 Message-Id: References: <7c6b7a36-7c73-bfcc-3c3e-bcd54ac361d8@cs.tcd.ie> To: Stephen Farrell X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18C66) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 03:54:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail-7EC0E209-E161-4F36-A382-EEFE28F37972 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stephen > On 2/02/2021, at 4:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrot= e: > =EF=BB=BF > Hiya, >=20 > There's a reference to [1] in there. That won't fly > if "no data" =3D> "<70/100" and hence "fail." >=20 > I totally agree with "Internet freedom" as a goal, > but [1] is not a good yardstick at least as rendered > for me. >=20 > I'd suggest first running the rule over some recent > and obviously acceptable venues - if a pile of those > supposedly now fail, that may well imply the criteria > are dodgy. We have indeed carried out this exercise in developing this assessment and r= ecent venues do pass. Yes there is imperfect data for some but that=E2=80=99= s because there are no better data sources and we don=E2=80=99t want to base= our decisions on anecdote or hearsay.=20 >=20 > Looking at [1], I'd guess a significant pile of > recent acceptable venues ostensibly "fail" which I > think means that the "exceptions may apply" get out > of jail clause isn't really appropriate if it needs > to be used that often. The exceptions are intended to be used as often as they apply. They=E2=80=99= re not =E2=80=98get out of jail=E2=80=99 cards but a proper method for asses= sing the reality of larger or more complex countries where a simple test is i= nsufficient.=20 Cheers Jay >=20 > I've not considered the other suggested criteria. They > may be sound (and I'm sure the motivation is sound) > but the flakiness of [1] is a bit off-putting. >=20 > Cheers, > S. >=20 > [1] https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=3Dfotn&year=3D2019 --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director >=20 > On 02/02/2021 03:04, IETF Executive Director wrote: >> The IETF Administration LLC recently consulted on changes to the process i= t uses to identify and select venues for IETF meetings [1] and is now implem= enting the changes. We are now consulting on the specifics of the assessmen= t step of the new process. >> This venue assessment step is based around a proposed new venue asessment= report [2] which records whether or not a proposed venue satisfies the foll= owing criteria, following the guidelines in RFC 8718 [3]: >> * City includes one or more venues able to accommodate an IETF meeting >> * The level of Internet freedom is acceptable >> * An overwhelming majority of participants who wish to do so can attend >> * Travel risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable >> * Health risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable >> * Human rights risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptab= le >> To assess each criterion there are a number of formal tests as set out i= n the report. The tests apply at either the country, city or venue level an= d for some tests exceptions are possible as documented. For example, one for= mal test is that Internet Freedom score for the country from Freedom House i= s =E2=80=9CFree=E2=80=9D (70/100 or above) though city or venue exceptions m= ay override that. If a venue fails any of the tests then it is deemed to ha= ve failed the assessment. >> This report is used in the initial assessment step, as follows: >>> Once a recommendation has been accepted, the IETF LLC carries out an ini= tial assessment by remotely researching the city and any potential venues in= that city. The output of this step is a draft report that assesses if the c= ity is likely to meet or not meet the requirements and a recommendation on w= hether or not to consider the city any further. >> The draft report is then consulted on, as follows: >>> We then seek community feedback on the assessment report and recommendat= ion. This feedback is assessed and published in a public repository [4]. D= epending on the feedback received, we may advance the city to the next step,= or return to step 2 and conduct further remote research, or we may reject t= he city and update the Meeting Location Assessment table [5]. >> You can provide feedback on the proposed new venue asessment report in on= e of the following ways: >> * Email to admin-discuss@ietf.org >> * By raising an issue on the GitHub repository [6] >> * Direct to me exec-director@ietf.org >> Please provide any feedback before Sunday 21 February 2021. >> [1] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-identification-and-selection-proce= ss-consultation >> [2] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation/blob/main/= IETF%20Venue%20Assessment%20Report.pdf >> [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8718 >> [4] https://trello.com/b/whq8I098/venue-selection-input >> [5] https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/meeting-location-input/ >> [6] https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation > > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss --Apple-Mail-7EC0E209-E161-4F36-A382-EEFE28F37972 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stephen
<= br>

On 2/02/2021, at 4:35 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.= ie> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hiya,

There's a reference to [1] in there. That won't fly
if "no d= ata" =3D> "<70/100" and hence "fail."

I totally agree with "Internet freedom" as a goal,
but [1] i= s not a good yardstick at least as rendered
for me.
I'd suggest first running the rule over some recent=
and obviously acceptable venues - if a pile of those=
supposedly now fail, that may well imply the criteria
are dodgy.

We have indeed ca= rried out this exercise in developing this assessment and recent venues do p= ass. Yes there is imperfect data for some but that=E2=80=99s because there a= re no better data sources and we don=E2=80=99t want to base our decisions on= anecdote or hearsay. 

Looking at [1], I'd guess a significant pile of<= br>recent acceptable venues ostensibly "fail" which I
= think means that the "exceptions may apply" get out
of jail c= lause isn't really appropriate if it needs
to be used that o= ften.

The exceptions are intende= d to be used as often as they apply. They=E2=80=99re not =E2=80=98get out of= jail=E2=80=99 cards but a proper method for assessing the reality of larger= or more complex countries where a simple test is insufficient. 
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Cheers
Jay<= /div>

<= /span>
I've not considered the other suggested criteria. They
may be sound (and I'm sure the motivation is sound)
but the flakiness of [1] is a bit off-putting.
Cheers,
S.

[1] https= ://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=3Dfotn&year=3D2019

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director<= /span>

= On 02/02/2021 03:04, IETF Executive Director wrote:
The IETF Administration LLC recently consulted on changes t= o the process it uses to identify and select venues for IETF meetings [1] an= d is now implementing the changes.  We are now consulting on the specif= ics of the assessment step of the new process.
This venue assessment step is based around a propo= sed new venue asessment report [2] which records whether or not a proposed v= enue satisfies the following criteria, following the guidelines in RFC 8718 [= 3]:
* City includes o= ne or more venues able to accommodate an IETF meeting
* The level of Internet freedom is acceptab= le
* An overwhelming m= ajority of participants who wish to do so can attend
=
* Travel risks associated with holding an IE= TF meeting are acceptable
<= span>* Health risks associated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable
* Human rights risks a= ssociated with holding an IETF meeting are acceptable
 To assess each criterion there are a= number of formal tests as set out in the report.  The tests apply at e= ither the country, city or venue level and for some tests exceptions are pos= sible as documented. For example, one formal test is that Internet Freedom s= core for the country from Freedom House is =E2=80=9CFree=E2=80=9D (70/100 or= above) though city or venue exceptions may override that.  If a venue f= ails any of the tests then it is deemed to have failed the assessment.
This report is used in the= initial assessment step, as follows:
Once a recommendation has been ac= cepted, the IETF LLC carries out an initial assessment by remotely researchi= ng the city and any potential venues in that city.  The output of this s= tep is a draft report that assesses if the city is likely to meet or not mee= t the requirements and a recommendation on whether or not to consider the ci= ty any further.
The draft report is then consulted on, as follows:
We then seek= community feedback on the assessment report and recommendation.  This f= eedback is assessed and published in a public repository [4].  Dependin= g on the feedback received, we may advance the city to the next step, or ret= urn to step 2 and conduct further remote research, or we may reject the city= and update the Meeting Location Assessment table [5].
You can provide feedback on t= he proposed new venue asessment report in one of the following ways:<= br>
* Email to admin-discuss@iet= f.org
* By raising an= issue on the GitHub repository [6]
* Direct to me exec-director@ietf.org
Please provide any feedback before Sunday 21 Fe= bruary 2021.
[1] &nbs= p;https://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-identification-and-selection-process-con= sultation
[2]  h= ttps://github.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation/blob/main/IETF%20Ve= nue%20Assessment%20Report.pdf
[3]  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8718
[4]  https://trello.com/b/whq8I098/ve= nue-selection-input
[= 5]  https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/meeting-location-input/<= /span>
[6]  https://git= hub.com/ietf-llc/venue-assessment-consultation
&= lt;OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc>
--
admin-d= iscuss mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss
= --Apple-Mail-7EC0E209-E161-4F36-A382-EEFE28F37972-- From nobody Tue Feb 2 23:16:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC043A151F; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 23:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.058 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.058 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IQFGuK48uurL; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 23:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71BC73A1519; Tue, 2 Feb 2021 23:16:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1366; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1612336562; x=1613546162; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=btGnP9re/552/B6mHZlmU3UljCPDOu5gSt9wtKA1kcc=; b=BjM5BCaMXENkB82GDx1T0BXzoagh0tBbGh6SAHqmM+J9IJ/2HrF0bAgq +s//Q/s+XLZGCQUa0r31r38xcL1NZgZQziuJL+PmnqQdQEBE07b865aei kBmv+XsaTXVLLJkGB8QAck8898jnWfdXPXRFfhDU8bwM3uVSPsXjAQr3L s=; X-Files: signature.asc : 488 X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A+AAAETRpglxbLJq1iHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFVg?= =?us-ascii?q?SkEAQELAYN2ATWEcYkEmSiLbwQHAQEBCgMBAS8EAQGESgKBfSY3Bg4CAwEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QMCAwEBAQEFAQEBAgEGBBQBAQEBAQEBAYZDhXQGI1YQC0ICAleDPwGDBq9od?= =?us-ascii?q?oEyhVmEahCBOAGBUotsQYIAgTgcgiguPoULgkw0giwEhGeeF5w+gwSDKYE6l?= =?us-ascii?q?x8DH4MdARGfcZY5m3mDcgIEBgUCFoFsIoFZMxoIGxVlAYI/PRIZDY47jjBAA?= =?us-ascii?q?2cCBgEJAQEDCYwVAQE?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.79,397,1602547200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="33169227" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 03 Feb 2021 07:15:58 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-106-202.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-106-202.cisco.com [10.61.106.202]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 1137Fv5P015981 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Feb 2021 07:15:58 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <3188B5C4-D6F3-4E6A-A5F4-58C9AD19C648@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C89D10D2-28F8-48D9-8615-CAFD99E119F7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:47:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: mtgvenue@ietf.org To: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.106.202, dhcp-10-61-106-202.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 07:16:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C89D10D2-28F8-48D9-8615-CAFD99E119F7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jay, I am uncomfortable with what I am reading. The criteria you have listed = don=E2=80=99t seem to me to be well correlated to RFC 8718. Is it your = intent to update 8718? The goal is to have a successful meeting. We = have done so at two venues that your assessment criteria would reject, = and conceivably do so in India and Mexico, which your criteria would = also reject. Eliot --Apple-Mail=_C89D10D2-28F8-48D9-8615-CAFD99E119F7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmNC9kEYdsJKnsmEdh7ZrRtnSejMFAmAZulwACgkQh7ZrRtnS ejOhpAf/Wby6uUgyncRoKAK654ml6f/siMxGByC24LnrfsJJTW0L2mUQZeXD8qGp 2VvxiJBmT1hGlZjDwV2A7P+TuGytpYmkGOePsKjX0CDPTV1pMgYqF513bMVeoeY5 OaRCUvRoFesq6emGzPc1UE+GE6TGeGr4NS47THqX5HQJfacdv5VU1HdCfdCMDAxd D+MbGYKMr0iRN0mpgX7Bb3btF1O4d0rVWiZT3n1zYXxAI3Hcu9KtTnExHemSmHrm ICbJc3ijrDBgeckLjuNFvkI7ASgWxKvDY5tcNpUqyODUWK/dFk65OLYpjQyyPRnZ qJ0frm4G1yWHfvxfVYbFD3oro/KMgg== =1uBF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C89D10D2-28F8-48D9-8615-CAFD99E119F7-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 15:02:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF2B3A09F5; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:02:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hDmGLvd56uj; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A1E393A09EF; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:02:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <820DD700-D172-42E0-A779-65AD08908F48@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E0EE2CC9-59E4-4CF4-A71C-CE6AD4AA7539"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:02:28 +1300 In-Reply-To: <3188B5C4-D6F3-4E6A-A5F4-58C9AD19C648@cisco.com> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, mtgvenue@ietf.org To: Eliot Lear References: <161223507892.29148.17335593472142475026@ietfa.amsl.com> <3188B5C4-D6F3-4E6A-A5F4-58C9AD19C648@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 23:02:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E0EE2CC9-59E4-4CF4-A71C-CE6AD4AA7539 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AF3AB823-848A-47D3-AA67-8EBE9C17CB00" --Apple-Mail=_AF3AB823-848A-47D3-AA67-8EBE9C17CB00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Eliot > On 3/02/2021, at 9:47 AM, Eliot Lear = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Hi Jay, >=20 > I am uncomfortable with what I am reading. The criteria you have = listed don=E2=80=99t seem to me to be well correlated to RFC 8718. Each of the criteria is taken directly from RFC 8718, though with = simplified language, and is marked as to whether that is a mandatory or = important criteria in RFC 8718. If the language simplification is a = problem then please let me know. > Is it your intent to update 8718? No. The intent is that RFC 8718 contains such requirements as that for = "Internet Access", which we need to turn into an objective, fair and = repeatable assessment process. This is attempting to do that. If you = think we have misinterpreted the criteria then please let me know. > The goal is to have a successful meeting. We have done so at two = venues that your assessment criteria would reject, and conceivably do so = in India and Mexico, which your criteria would also reject. In order to address any issue here I need detail - can you please = specify why you think India and Mexico would be rejected using this = assessment and how that indicates failings in the assessment? cheers Jay >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 >=20 -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_AF3AB823-848A-47D3-AA67-8EBE9C17CB00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Eliot

On 3/02/2021, at 9:47 AM, Eliot Lear <lear=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Signed PGP part
Hi Jay,

I am = uncomfortable with what I am reading.  The criteria you have listed = don=E2=80=99t seem to me to be well correlated to RFC = 8718.

Each of the criteria is taken directly from RFC = 8718, though with simplified language, and is marked as to whether that = is a mandatory or important criteria in RFC 8718.  If the language = simplification is a problem then please let me know.

 Is it = your intent to update 8718? =

No.  The intent is that RFC 8718 contains = such requirements as that for "Internet Access", which we need to turn = into an objective, fair and repeatable assessment process.  This is = attempting to do that.  If you think we have misinterpreted the = criteria then please let me know.

 The goal is to have a successful = meeting.  We have done so at two venues that your assessment = criteria would reject, and conceivably do so in India and Mexico, which = your criteria would also reject.

In order to address any issue here I need detail - = can you please specify why you think India and Mexico would be rejected = using this assessment and how that indicates failings in the = assessment? 

cheers
Jay


Eliot