From nobody Thu May 6 13:00:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704153A2ECF; Thu, 6 May 2021 13:00:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, MONEY_NOHTML=2.486, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XhDXdkioyIg4; Thu, 6 May 2021 12:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4365D3A2ECE; Thu, 6 May 2021 12:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: <412FE537-426A-4517-946A-B6F6A532F1B1@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:59:53 +1200 To: admin-discuss@ietf.org, IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] StandICT.eu funding on offer X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 20:00:03 -0000 StandICT.eu is the =E2=80=9CICT Standardisation Observatory and Support = Facility in Europe=E2=80=9D and "through a series of 10 Open Calls, will = provide 3 million Euro through a cascade grant process to support and = incentivise participation of European standardisation specialists in key = international and global SDOs and consortia." Details here: https://www.standict.eu/standicteu-2023-3rd-open-call Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org From nobody Thu May 6 15:09:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5DA33A0B40; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:09:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HAS_X_OUTGOING_SPAM_STAT=2.484, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jXdA_MeZsEYI; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-5.web-hosting.com (server217-5.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 148443A0BC1; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:08:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Sender: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender :Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=XF6/LYOVvIPm0dT5HX8YxPC9oKdFKaOuf60JCSFrGM0=; b=jBRpdSGcbwUqBvxrS2c01nzcwo 1r//nl6YECzX+vTdAvTcN+me/VJC6YJDmxijK/6z8p7mY7tKIT/84IjQXNEqnt4BFVgVqL9J1JvpV EBkyEpZyiKTJNCjOq6JvQZggsLg8xssFLQeU4EHuqgoW9vveeFhkdAn40m1yxRU+H2RgAB/CYQKoI LCZQOUYq3rs0bi/tAhD/xPAmXStFS4C5NaPW5mR1YJyOGIWGr4powWxwK6RVuWLi1DC75xwiLCiad CvYN72ql69Nz7iFe3WvGA4ys7n2bW8O9GyD1R4vxyQFRDenWxGE0lHZu5CsCHsbArts9REfowLyhT iVhlxHgQ==; Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:49896 helo=smtpclient.apple) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1lemAr-000KN8-PO; Thu, 06 May 2021 18:08:54 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch In-Reply-To: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 15:08:49 -0700 Cc: IETF Announcement List Message-Id: <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> To: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18E212) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 22:09:07 -0000 This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? > On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many years, o= ften decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friends.= For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. So when c= ommunity participants pass away, there is often a widely felt and long-lasti= ng impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary sessions, there a= re many who want to remember those individuals and their contributions. >=20 > The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by est= ablishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. >=20 > We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we a= re able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: >=20 > * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials be= low is added >=20 > * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copyab= le, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want it= used without consideration >=20 > * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", w= hich displays any testimonials that members of the community have submitted a= bout that person. Initially these will be plain text, without images or oth= er formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and the dat= e of publication. >=20 > The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one= and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is b= oth respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with= the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are kno= wn to have been friends of the deceased. All genuine and respectful testimo= nials will be published. Testimonials cannot be anonymous. >=20 > We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all feed= back to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IE= SG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >=20 > --=20 > Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director > Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From nobody Thu May 6 15:20:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D183A0BFC for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:20:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D87fAkrZBg0H for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 974633A0BF9 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id p12so5712254pgj.10 for ; Thu, 06 May 2021 15:20:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDkpeQ5uejT9u8nZNx1gdMsq1usvCoVKonRub+sgSkk=; b=iwgVhJ/LkU7Qp1ElQ9fTEEl6TR8grgH9Ae2cy4311hAdJmeKKTIA3/kxbwcZo9LY3y tjrQ0Yw/a+VkCepAOiHwRNnCowS2ol9jPrQRR/G0Y1xOpoXepiAhSXu3FfqcxRZNzqVi 0fqDLUOHWAdtreVHz79mLjHIHld1Rqn009AGMmisdLEkgOdnUTcdD1dngz1M3glNHQFw sDnXpPqyXZEsUJEcM2ixs2tmXtRy/kPe7FBpLOl36zS9GOM2WHxdPtGE3/oltWlEoo51 HjD8U7OrWHQ7+TBqY6RbVIsZ3AeMUemcjB8FnFx0rVp8q448in41DUVxoI/AdsGYCPpl bqSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDkpeQ5uejT9u8nZNx1gdMsq1usvCoVKonRub+sgSkk=; b=J0U25R1Q3KJXTVB9f1Ms7567jkLMxLKE/NmaIDKusJC5DvKCC3v5GnAA1mnYRoEVNE 8FXIEm7ncwUU1VBX5aS3UJg/cck41TPDR+gS6TXFfPLjjj24N8EL+Sk8nco2JahQpU9G rE2udIha6I2ikYMEDhm4mDgNPcqYUv6gXCETf7UhKw4Ev/XwL9X9vwKMtCyGgL5EQO5I PqKeSFHYZrlpSqG/e490u/oEOx93RmVR9AuYKtKPLrMnynvBk53RlH/a6SzajEfSic0V Mk+XGlZVScps3CYHZt94+IgAf5sau9S9fwtjJD7C51+jwU6p+sYY+Rx9O0Y7yUQ72n3e 0S0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MV7BVc1SVUxiEbpGywfKBltb5B3r/370YPWAvGpvaX1ql0He6 D1HP0lPtaYVxMS0bkoXNmaslBYDptHM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1TEOMYGYG8ShynWXsYOF6TkIt2SIxoJ9T01OInHRvA1KgdWKt2WkUR0yuXkyy/RrJBWyfsw== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6a0d:: with SMTP id m13mr6656171pgu.43.1620339629032; Thu, 06 May 2021 15:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.8.102] (115-189-97-205.mobile.spark.co.nz. [115.189.97.205]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f12sm2789542pfv.155.2021.05.06.15.20.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 May 2021 15:20:28 -0700 (PDT) To: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <5c28cbf3-da5c-e3eb-85e6-c1e7770259fc@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 10:20:24 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 22:20:35 -0000 On 07-May-21 10:08, Joe Touch wrote: > This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? I think that the family would be the appropriate decision point, unless t= he person opted out in advance. Two other questions: 1. Will this be retrospective? I hope so, because I think a number of for= mer participants deserve this recognition. 2. Will there be a single In Memoriam page on the web site (a list of poi= nters into the datatracker entries). Apart from that, I applaud the proposal. Brian >=20 >> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many yea= rs, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many = friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work= =2E So when community participants pass away, there is often a widely fe= lt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plena= ry sessions, there are many who want to remember those individuals and th= eir contributions. >> >> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by=20 establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. >> >> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and = we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follow= s: >> >> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonial= s below is added >> >> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains co= pyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not = want it used without consideration >> >> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials= ", which displays any testimonials that members of the community have sub= mitted about that person. Initially these will be plain text, without im= ages or other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the auth= or and the date of publication. >> >> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write=20 one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that i= t is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will con= sult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community=20 who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All genuine and resp= ectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials cannot be anonymous.= >> >> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all = feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to=20 the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >> >> --=20 >> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IETF-Announce mailing list >> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >=20 From nobody Thu May 6 15:48:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612683A0DB4 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:48:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dfwGNP4WZIMh; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44D843A0DBC; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CCAB5645-6555-4B9C-ABC5-E8B18B44A6D6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 10:48:00 +1200 In-Reply-To: <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: Joe Touch References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 22:48:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CCAB5645-6555-4B9C-ABC5-E8B18B44A6D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 7/05/2021, at 10:08 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 > This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? No. We would quickly run into a situation where people wanted to = remember someone who did not opt-in and that would cause unnecessary = conflict at an already difficult time. We could add an opt-out if = people felt strongly enough about that, Jay >=20 >> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director = wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many = years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make = many friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their = life's work. So when community participants pass away, there is often a = widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from = previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those = individuals and their contributions. >>=20 >> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this = by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF = participants. >>=20 >> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and = we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as = follows: >>=20 >> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added >>=20 >> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration >>=20 >> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled = "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the = community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be = plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata = being the name of the author and the date of publication. >>=20 >> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can = write one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure = that it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they = will consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All = genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials = cannot be anonymous. >>=20 >> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all = feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately = to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> IETF-Announce mailing list >> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_CCAB5645-6555-4B9C-ABC5-E8B18B44A6D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 7/05/2021, at 10:08 AM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:

This = would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)?

No. =  We would quickly run into a situation where people wanted to = remember someone who did not opt-in and that would cause unnecessary = conflict at an already difficult time.  We could add an opt-out if = people felt strongly enough about that,

Jay


On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive = Director <exec-director@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for = many years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and = make many friends.  For some it becomes the defining community of = their life's work.  So when community participants pass away, there = is often a widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve = seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember = those individuals and their contributions.

The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we = recognise this by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased = IETF participants.

We propose that when we = are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to confirm it, = their Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added

* their email = address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their = mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want it used = without consideration

* a new section = appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", which displays = any testimonials that members of the community have submitted about that = person.  Initially these will be plain text, without images or = other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and = the date of publication.

The proposed = process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one and send = it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both = respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with = the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are = known to have been friends of the deceased.  All genuine and = respectful testimonials will be published.  Testimonials cannot be = anonymous.

We welcome feedback on this = proposal by 23 May 2021.  Please send all feedback to the admin = discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org.  

--
Jay Daley, IETF Executive = Director
Lars Eggert, IETF Chair

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

--
admin-discuss = mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_CCAB5645-6555-4B9C-ABC5-E8B18B44A6D6-- From nobody Thu May 6 15:49:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7353A3A0DDC for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:49:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z0mjcrdK--wc; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5F9D3A0DD7; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:49:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AC9B20ED-B225-4CC1-A9FF-E1415F0AFED4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 10:49:45 +1200 In-Reply-To: <5c28cbf3-da5c-e3eb-85e6-c1e7770259fc@gmail.com> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: Brian E Carpenter References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> <5c28cbf3-da5c-e3eb-85e6-c1e7770259fc@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 22:49:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AC9B20ED-B225-4CC1-A9FF-E1415F0AFED4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 7/05/2021, at 10:20 AM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > On 07-May-21 10:08, Joe Touch wrote: >> This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? >=20 > I think that the family would be the appropriate decision point, = unless the person opted out in advance. >=20 > Two other questions: >=20 > 1. Will this be retrospective? I hope so, because I think a number of = former participants deserve this recognition. It certainly could be, >=20 > 2. Will there be a single In Memoriam page on the web site (a list of = pointers into the datatracker entries). We are not proposing that at this stage, but it is possible. To avoid = over-complicating this, it would be better if that were an = auto-generated page in the Datatracker. Jay >=20 > Apart from that, I applaud the proposal. >=20 > Brian >=20 >>=20 >>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director = wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many = years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make = many friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their = life's work. So when community participants pass away, there is often a = widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from = previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those = individuals and their contributions. >>>=20 >>> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this = by=20 > establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF = participants. >>>=20 >>> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing = and we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as = follows: >>>=20 >>> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added >>>=20 >>> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration >>>=20 >>> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled = "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the = community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be = plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata = being the name of the author and the date of publication. >>>=20 >>> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can = write=20 > one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure = that it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they = will consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community=20 > who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All genuine and = respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials cannot be = anonymous. >>>=20 >>> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send = all feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or = privately to=20 > the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >>> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_AC9B20ED-B225-4CC1-A9FF-E1415F0AFED4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 7/05/2021, at 10:20 AM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:

On = 07-May-21 10:08, Joe Touch wrote:
This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)?

I think that the family would be = the appropriate decision point, unless the person opted out in = advance.

Two other questions:

1. Will this be retrospective? I hope so, = because I think a number of former participants deserve this = recognition.

It certainly could be,


2. Will there be a single In Memoriam page on = the web site (a list of pointers into the datatracker entries).

We = are not proposing that at this stage, but it is possible.  To avoid = over-complicating this, it would be better if that were an = auto-generated page in the Datatracker.

Jay


Apart from = that, I applaud the proposal.

=    Brian


On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director <exec-director@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for = many years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and = make many friends.  For some it becomes the defining community of = their life's work.  So when community participants pass away, there = is often a widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve = seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember = those individuals and their contributions.

The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we = recognise this by
establishing = permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants.

We propose that when we are informed of = someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to confirm it, their = Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* = "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials = below is added

* their email address is = shown in a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their mail may = be being handled by someone else and we do not want it used without = consideration

* a new section appears at = the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", which displays any = testimonials that members of the community have submitted about that = person.  Initially these will be plain text, without images or = other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and = the date of publication.

The proposed = process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write
one and send it to the Secretariat, = who will check it to make sure that it is both respectful and genuine. = If they are in any doubt, they will consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s = family or other members of the community
who are known to = have been friends of the deceased.  All genuine and respectful = testimonials will be published.  Testimonials cannot be = anonymous.

We welcome feedback on this = proposal by 23 May 2021.  Please send all feedback to the admin = discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to
the IESG at iesg@ietf.org.  

--
Jay Daley, IETF Executive = Director
Lars Eggert, IETF Chair

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce


-- =
admin-discuss mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_AC9B20ED-B225-4CC1-A9FF-E1415F0AFED4-- From nobody Thu May 6 16:10:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4B13A0F39 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swfQabOSfx66 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D18B3A0F35 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:10:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: <2D2378AC-4FEC-4A7E-B40F-34F77802FF76@ietf.org> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 11:10:48 +1200 To: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Opt-out for memorials X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 23:10:57 -0000 I=E2=80=99ve had private messages about this and some would like to be = able to opt out of the memorial section, both in the plenary and in the = Datatracker, but would be happy if the Datatracker account was locked = and noted that the person has passed on as that=E2=80=99s just stating a = fact. =20 Any views? Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org From nobody Thu May 6 17:48:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27003A5ADF; Thu, 6 May 2021 17:48:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.387 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.387 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HAS_X_OUTGOING_SPAM_STAT=2.484, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m12lrC0p52w4; Thu, 6 May 2021 17:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-5.web-hosting.com (server217-5.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C922F3A39A5; Thu, 6 May 2021 17:34:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Sender: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender :Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4O1RYsMdVTqQETYCTUyTcd9/5PNqbn/3UsvZyS3hyIg=; b=LCghbyB/aWgI0xMlBTJZ8bi3ny AAWedN9TzP/DoOQRGFvzS57/CRZK2H3eJNEowQfUtVv/B0k0WOP9LQy31a+XXEycQDIXIoqeR3xlz Wl+0AdykrzzvU+m5MVtSFKpcaTpegRu48410zC0jjejR9hTdWQqAAXobKE9EKDW4nHRc2Vn9RaJ2h p0KuS/tAxXbR3HhhYAu9qBl/L5Js+irTY6RYh93SfZSSpIXyYEiitTD1GmV/nS+yKYMwb6LtsYA2p jolg2C85a7AhmRFDfsca57cbi2iJ5jdGzFpwml+jgkw2GWRBgeVKY2swfgZeHMuakXYIoWbCGcA7l OavzeY5g==; Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:54693 helo=smtpclient.apple) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1leoRQ-0035SP-MP; Thu, 06 May 2021 20:34:09 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E85F26FF-B0BF-429E-909E-1B9B3A96C3BF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 17:34:04 -0700 Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: <6E3FE2EB-9494-4094-A2E4-53F2D34D8DEC@strayalpha.com> References: To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18E212) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 00:48:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail-E85F26FF-B0BF-429E-909E-1B9B3A96C3BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do. Start with me.=20 > On May 6, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >>> On 7/05/2021, at 10:08 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >>>=20 >>> This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? >>=20 >> No. We would quickly run into a situation where people wanted to remembe= r someone who did not opt-in and that would cause unnecessary conflict at an= already difficult time. We could add an opt-out if people felt strongly en= ough about that, >>=20 >> Jay >>=20 >>=20 >>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many years= , often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many frien= ds. For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. So wh= en community participants pass away, there is often a widely felt and long-l= asting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary sessions, the= re are many who want to remember those individuals and their contributions. >>>=20 >>> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by e= stablishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. >>>=20 >>> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we= are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: >>>=20 >>> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials b= elow is added >>>=20 >>> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copy= able, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want i= t used without consideration >>>=20 >>> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials",= which displays any testimonials that members of the community have submitte= d about that person. Initially these will be plain text, without images or o= ther formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and the d= ate of publication. >>>=20 >>> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write o= ne and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is= both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult wi= th the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are k= nown to have been friends of the deceased. All genuine and respectful testi= monials will be published. Testimonials cannot be anonymous. >>>=20 >>> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all fe= edback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the I= ESG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >>> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >>=20 >> --=20 >> admin-discuss mailing list >> admin-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss >=20 > --=20 > Jay Daley > IETF Executive Director > jay@ietf.org >=20 --Apple-Mail-E85F26FF-B0BF-429E-909E-1B9B3A96C3BF Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I do. Start with me. =

On May 6, 2021, at 3:48= PM, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

On 7/05/2021, at 10:08= AM, Joe Touch <touch@= strayalpha.com> wrote:

<= div class=3D"">
This would be opt-in presumably (in advance o= f course)?

=
No.  We would quickly run into a situation where people wanted to r= emember someone who did not opt-in and that would cause unnecessary conflict= at an already difficult time.  We could add an opt-out if people felt s= trongly enough about that,

Jay


On May 6, 2021, at 1= :23 PM, IETF Executive Director <exec-director@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many years,= often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friend= s.  For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. &n= bsp;So when community participants pass away, there is often a widely felt a= nd long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary sess= ions, there are many who want to remember those individuals and their contri= butions.

The IESG and IETF Administration LLC p= ropose that we recognise this by establishing permanent online memorials for= deceased IETF participants.

We propose that wh= en we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to confirm i= t, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials b= elow is added

* their email address is shown in= a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their mail may be being hand= led by someone else and we do not want it used without consideration

* a new section appears at the bottom of the page titl= ed "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the commu= nity have submitted about that person.  Initially these will be plain t= ext, without images or other formatting and the only metadata being the name= of the author and the date of publication.

The= proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one and s= end it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both re= spectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with the d= eceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are known to h= ave been friends of the deceased.  All genuine and respectful testimoni= als will be published.  Testimonials cannot be anonymous.

We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021.  P= lease send all feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IE= SG at iesg@ietf.org.  <= br class=3D"">
--
Jay Daley, IETF Executive Dir= ector
Lars Eggert, IETF Chair

___= ____________________________________________
IETF-Announce mai= ling list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/ietf-announce

--
admin-discuss mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss
=

-- 
Jay Da= ley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail-E85F26FF-B0BF-429E-909E-1B9B3A96C3BF-- From nobody Thu May 6 18:47:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EAB3A02BB; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:47:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HAS_X_OUTGOING_SPAM_STAT=2.484, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oNQPPcA-JnN7; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-5.web-hosting.com (server217-5.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 676E03A0489; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:47:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9bA+YqGN6VupZYV9JQb3Xaz6RfBrwDC86DFTrIw8g+c=; b=gvqn3/T0Xcs46yxIxZu1Xap7Pd uva4+rFSEEUB5wpCZzUjbKgJVQLTy3c2c47KsuurW+PfZncVsO4VRiWLmvADfy/m3V+SM6DAwcaDo Dwv8B/VikGsugD/GkPE6L11mydMdJCM4dtQOq599U3LjmDuW7Tzln7DSsVXAJhfrPiVtuVD3P7iS4 D4JVOgNIxcZRun5eTBdPCskDGdjasqb8S/uR5J+o/NrzS293Z2X6ADJ4NdVKnvuVqizfiw9qP8APv YaxC8F2lhVS/2icQ7zPPppEhxswtZ9mLqti1gR21ajxWEeeozOIe6crIPEA0+5LOhUOugg9+NGn7m e0nS1UYg==; Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:57542 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1lepa3-004O1k-3H; Thu, 06 May 2021 21:47:08 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CEFCF77E-1271-4A15-8C9A-CDA020968DFE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) From: Joseph Touch In-Reply-To: <6E3FE2EB-9494-4094-A2E4-53F2D34D8DEC@strayalpha.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 18:47:02 -0700 Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: References: <6E3FE2EB-9494-4094-A2E4-53F2D34D8DEC@strayalpha.com> To: Jay Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 01:47:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CEFCF77E-1271-4A15-8C9A-CDA020968DFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 One final point: > On May 6, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 > I do. Start with me.=20 >=20 >> On May 6, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Jay Daley wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >>> On 7/05/2021, at 10:08 AM, Joe Touch > wrote: >>>=20 >>> This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? >>=20 >> No. We would quickly run into a situation where people wanted to = remember someone who did not opt-in and that would cause unnecessary = conflict at an already difficult time. You seem to confuse the IETF with a social networking site. Have you considered the ramifications of opening that door? I=E2=80=99m sure the next step will be to appoint a posting oversight = board (kudos for anticipating that below), or, more specifically, to = convene a WG to debate ad nauseam how to appoint and organize such a = board. That board's first task (hint: not yours) should be to decide whether = the IETF should start with opt-out or opt-in to this social networking = function. Joe >> We could add an opt-out if people felt strongly enough about that, >>=20 >> Jay >>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many = years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make = many friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their = life's work. So when community participants pass away, there is often a = widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from = previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those = individuals and their contributions. >>>>=20 >>>> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this = by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF = participants. >>>>=20 >>>> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing = and we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as = follows: >>>>=20 >>>> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added >>>>=20 >>>> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration >>>>=20 >>>> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled = "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the = community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be = plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata = being the name of the author and the date of publication. >>>>=20 >>>> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can = write one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure = that it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they = will consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All = genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials = cannot be anonymous. >>>>=20 >>>> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send = all feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org = or privately to the IESG at = iesg@ietf.org . =20 >>>>=20 >>>> --=20 >>>> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >>>> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> admin-discuss mailing list >>> admin-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss >>=20 >> --=20 >> Jay Daley >> IETF Executive Director >> jay@ietf.org >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_CEFCF77E-1271-4A15-8C9A-CDA020968DFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 One = final point:

On May 6, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:

I = do. Start with me. 

On May 6, 2021, at 3:48 = PM, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

On 7/05/2021, at 10:08 AM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:

This = would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)?

No.  We would quickly run into a = situation where people wanted to remember someone who did not opt-in and = that would cause unnecessary conflict at an already difficult time. =

You seem to confuse the IETF with a social = networking site.

Have you considered = the ramifications of opening that door?

I=E2=80=99m sure the next step will be to appoint = a posting oversight board (kudos for anticipating that below), or, more = specifically, to convene a WG to debate ad nauseam how to appoint and = organize such a board.

That board's = first task (hint: not yours) should be to decide whether the IETF should = start with opt-out or opt-in to this social networking = function.

Joe

 We could = add an opt-out if people felt strongly enough about that,

Jay


On May = 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director <exec-director@ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for = many years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and = make many friends.  For some it becomes the defining community of = their life's work.  So when community participants pass away, there = is often a widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve = seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember = those individuals and their contributions.

The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we = recognise this by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased = IETF participants.

We propose that when we = are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to confirm it, = their Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added

* their email = address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their = mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want it used = without consideration

* a new section = appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", which displays = any testimonials that members of the community have submitted about that = person.  Initially these will be plain text, without images or = other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and = the date of publication.

The proposed = process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one and send = it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both = respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with = the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are = known to have been friends of the deceased.  All genuine and = respectful testimonials will be published.  Testimonials cannot be = anonymous.

We welcome feedback on this = proposal by 23 May 2021.  Please send all feedback to the admin = discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org.  

--
Jay Daley, IETF Executive = Director
Lars Eggert, IETF Chair

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

--
admin-discuss = mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org


= --Apple-Mail=_CEFCF77E-1271-4A15-8C9A-CDA020968DFE-- From nobody Thu May 6 18:59:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED0A3A0977; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:59:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hoKKj_0zJc9Y; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EAD3A096C; Thu, 6 May 2021 18:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ja.int.chopps.org.chopps.org (047-026-251-217.res.spectrum.com [47.26.251.217]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0162F803BB; Fri, 7 May 2021 01:59:14 +0000 (UTC) References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.13; emacs 27.2 From: Christian Hopps To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Cc: IETF Executive Director Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 21:54:00 -0400 In-reply-to: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 01:59:20 -0000 I find this very touching and a wonderful idea. On a personal note, I had the woeful opportunity to be in bad shape once in= the hospital, and one of the things I contemplated was if I would be remem= bered outside of my immediate family; if I had done anything worth being re= membered for. It would have brought me some comfort to know that I might be= remembered in this way. Thanks, Chris. IETF Executive Director writes: > The IETF is a community where people participate for many years, often de= cades, > contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friends. For some it > becomes the defining community of their life's work. So when community > participants pass away, there is often a widely felt and long-lasting imp= act > and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many= who want to > remember those individuals and their contributions. > > The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by es= tablishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. > > We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we = are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: > > * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials b= elow is added > > * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copya= ble, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want = it used without consideration > > * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", = which > displays any testimonials that members of the community have submitted ab= out > that person. Initially these will be plain text, without images or other > formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and the dat= e of > publication. > > The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write on= e and > send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both > respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with = the > deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are known= to have been > friends of the deceased. All genuine and respectful testimonials will be > published. Testimonials cannot be anonymous. > > We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all fee= dback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the = IESG at iesg@ietf.org. From nobody Thu May 6 20:09:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2933A10BA; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:09:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mjMs8z5cSwDC; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C61B3A10B8; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id m11so6585323pfc.11; Thu, 06 May 2021 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bc8+S6j1te97I/hlFQt1L78zT+eFNHbJIB2lEsrjwZo=; b=iN3oh/DqnwUsHgixJCQqzGnoS0N9IdLLtxinjBSVKwC8zAq366RlzR1P4dv882Mzrm oBK4SuWdK0JVYmc2k/4/26wQVpUdsY/Z5uEjYl8mGIglqcxLOBX3f/Ph7Q4JI9E0FukE Cbda3MBgL746YkyNnVC95WaG1QzrMb4/MUOhC89mvnwO654+92+sYXzXFUQ2TqrNmUQh EwTjF4TbaqQmBwoccuVgdjZIG6xc2NjYppaUJTRpAaIkMUxOYwRv900aOkL4NHyf7cJp 6YeDFx13sDocRGwsgk9w7P8Ag+roFZMBE2R7nH4EpNO0OFFlvgPYm03ZoZoZ3wnovzCv hnzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bc8+S6j1te97I/hlFQt1L78zT+eFNHbJIB2lEsrjwZo=; b=mER29Suh6NpI8ZugHk7QjuXPwgLAn3+iPWWg2oIc3M4Fxh9qGoBmMmsa4XdgbOh+Tn QjYzkqeCtskbrQB5yv963/TxFxcJRbnVsZgN8KCTiycEb2IK4feKThrzhK/krrc1xp+T nKXXgvpe0siXTFthpRFApb7gFGG/SjDw/5sO3zYzj5IsGUCKt3itXc9GxFU0nWPrAeRa +VQ7mVvJ6xNdZk5BTPMADSX2pEmlYzaq7gisdmc8naLlBt65bOAAqSDVLXk6WAzHVgyK DUpUSJOZkUnfv3AskPhuLiDdKhz2peGW5OUUVqsFXaJsjYwVy0bpCoz4rMcg902+bsm3 lngQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532k/DZRDUiduSCTVv1d1t89NVD3m/2IX+KHylQHqXzkNSfNlqow +yE8WJc0dsjL3HpneSF3UBnWFlCeXy0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwV9oMJzXT37Hh+xJd4+WNpf/Iq9LE7b9gmkgWUPTGGDHh+7WgVrmhWODaI9XDD5TQZ6GPoRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:1c22:: with SMTP id c34mr7608642pgc.408.1620356975141; Thu, 06 May 2021 20:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.8.102] (115-189-97-83.mobile.spark.co.nz. [115.189.97.83]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o140sm3323646pfd.65.2021.05.06.20.09.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 May 2021 20:09:34 -0700 (PDT) To: Jay Daley , admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <2D2378AC-4FEC-4A7E-B40F-34F77802FF76@ietf.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <9b41e464-634f-f9a8-adae-b7db105c8ee5@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:09:30 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2D2378AC-4FEC-4A7E-B40F-34F77802FF76@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Opt-out for memorials X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 03:09:38 -0000 On 07-May-21 11:10, Jay Daley wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve had private messages about this and some would like to be = able to opt out of the memorial section, both in the plenary and in the D= atatracker, but would be happy if the Datatracker account was locked and = noted that the person has passed on as that=E2=80=99s just stating a fact= =2E =20 >=20 > Any views? That's exactly right IMHO. The alternative is much worse: that people don= 't realise that someone is dead, which can easily lead to additional dist= ress for family and friends. Brian From nobody Thu May 6 20:11:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726513A10D7; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id grQ1TqOHgqtt; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 237123A10D4; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id c17so6637816pfn.6; Thu, 06 May 2021 20:11:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FdN5n6V976ez8W5ucl1yvy+cSE3p326J/DTMxDaN79Y=; b=fIweTDHEHGyQ4Y8X5Z7H1TJLm45VGSRhxMUeXFbILqC+4prDlywriIVntW9s4vsdqd 0BGmkQ9oTeuqKNz3u55pDjHL/RdGw+aCmSkW8yt9oUu1Zuqqh585j79UdMeqO03wZ2k3 xV7JAr4iiMUNai8+D0cflsmWJRz4b/KlkvoRyA+d1jFWjpN+RGEqBzI/VqcY8h/dqIPA yb0zq2zL1Mokjzi1Bt5LI+j4evu0q4r4wxtuy1OQNxT+5dYnY+r4BxcKSLjlrMka6x1l b1aQGYeklquvD5BJ7qY2ELDTV6el4BuyGUBYxnmUqo9XDmm2rqppssv7PqVopZrNPpHr QLCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FdN5n6V976ez8W5ucl1yvy+cSE3p326J/DTMxDaN79Y=; b=G2iMgytnLRE0V7gGSO37gfg1YuNt9YSqrIIYwWbKH0rngXDGQroKtbSXYcGaCDgcLo wI3VPzqGtVBSheiLlrpyYypCZ323w6wPALNZsJBCGxMl/bP6elWvBkdz/TNy6hS7XoLI +b6wpOJymPyGpvz8RbMFYv3R73Wujd+KzJzmw7NRdeq0xjtWj4o1ftvlbklOTI2sF160 KR0/V3G+1xqQlnQsMkJFJUGCcP5a0F1PpxSUsHqxosKEl7/h7aK/3DgP2am6bxxfJGaz LjRXPqBkZKvSAdVjW/p/5PFjy5l9LZJrgkl1HVCKfzHxxnFhhFqP2EdNXgf0ViJMKFKv i3Rw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xej6xhLTk/NgPllSQSOitpeD/9zxTbP9IcxspqAUu++rYqp2q KhNQIoedOKI6kFkOFzpduonfnOlVdqc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9z9+0j6bZEhziXqcSakX6eiGXGseggUAe9jwjMDgJISoL1+KhBBAngrcVn/ED/qT+VPbkdg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:3704:: with SMTP id e4mr7479689pga.125.1620357073642; Thu, 06 May 2021 20:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.8.102] (115-189-97-83.mobile.spark.co.nz. [115.189.97.83]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a20sm3274653pfn.23.2021.05.06.20.11.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 May 2021 20:11:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Jay Daley Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> <0E6085F9-EDEA-41F7-8560-0673FA0F31B9@strayalpha.com> <5c28cbf3-da5c-e3eb-85e6-c1e7770259fc@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <13f96b06-bcb4-7db9-f07c-17de080e3bfb@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:11:10 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 03:11:20 -0000 On 07-May-21 10:49, Jay Daley wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 7/05/2021, at 10:20 AM, Brian E Carpenter > wrote: >> >> On 07-May-21 10:08, Joe Touch wrote: >>> This would be opt-in presumably (in advance of course)? >> >> I think that the family would be the appropriate decision point, unles= s the person opted out in advance. >> >> Two other questions: >> >> 1. Will this be retrospective? I hope so, because I think a number of = former participants deserve this recognition. >=20 > It certainly could be, >=20 >> >> 2. Will there be a single In Memoriam page on the web site (a list of = pointers into the datatracker entries). >=20 > We are not proposing that at this stage, but it is possible. =C2=A0To a= void over-complicating this, it would be better if that were an auto-gene= rated page in the Datatracker. Absolutely. I think it would be appropriate. Brian >=20 > Jay >=20 >> >> Apart from that, I applaud the proposal. >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Brian >> >>> >>>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:23 PM, IETF Executive Director > wrote: >>>> >>>> =EF=BB=BFThe IETF is a community where people participate for many y= ears, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make man= y friends. =C2=A0For some it becomes the defining community of their life= 's work. =C2=A0So when community participants pass away, there is often a=20 widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previ= ous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those individua= ls and their contributions. >>>> >>>> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this = by >> establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants= =2E >>>> >>>> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing an= d we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as foll= ows: >>>> >>>> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimoni= als below is added >>>> >>>> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do no= t want it used without consideration >>>> >>>> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonia= ls", which displays any testimonials that members of the community have s= ubmitted about that person. =C2=A0Initially these will be plain text, wit= hout images or other formatting and the only metadata being the name of t= he author and the date of publication. >>>> >>>> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can wri= te >> one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure tha= t it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will = consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the commun= ity >> who are known to have been friends of the deceased. =C2=A0All genuine = and respectful testimonials will be published. =C2=A0Testimonials cannot = be anonymous. >>>> >>>> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. =C2=A0Please se= nd all feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to >> the IESG at iesg@ietf.org . =C2=A0 >>>> >>>> --=20 >>>> Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director >>>> Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >>> >> >> --=20 >> admin-discuss mailing list >> admin-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss >=20 > --=C2=A0 > Jay Daley > IETF Executive Director > jay@ietf.org >=20 From nobody Thu May 6 20:31:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B523A11D3 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 20:31:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Administration LLC Board of Directors Chair To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <162035828262.17441.15540461810633556356@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 20:31:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] LLC Board Meeting Details - 13 May 2021 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 03:31:32 -0000 IETF LLC Board of Directors meetings are conducted via web/teleconference. Members of the community are welcome to attend certain portions of these meetings as observers. Regular meetings are divided into four sections: 1. Open (to Observers) 2. Board + Support Staff Only 3. Board + Executive Director Only 4. Executive Session (Board-Only) The next meeting will be held on Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 12:00 PT (19:00 UTC). WebEx and Dial-in information is at the bottom of this message and also at . The agenda for the meeting can be found at . A calendar of upcoming public meetings can be downloaded or subscribed to at: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/ietf.org_vmffrv4hq14aqpedenuv5v42hs%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics ------------------------------------------------------- JOIN WEBEX MEETING https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m5481867e37f4c98327c151d9a6a7cd78 Meeting number (access code): 178 797 1273 Meeting password: meetings JOIN BY PHONE 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 178 797 1273 IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation. From nobody Fri May 7 05:00:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA9C3A1E28 for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 05:00:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJJ4FqaxPXZ4 for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 05:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7197F3A1E27 for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 05:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39BAA5C01A6 for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 08:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 07 May 2021 08:00:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=bPpWLAuJN/CY1OM4iOb+7vzyKKMbvAvqxqRIYfLQc q0=; b=IXNfWLe4NJKIRLGTdsQIY1FYCFz/duVmv7yDcmfe/sRY/4fOga5f8a0FS DZd9JhRhDNmVSi4B/fr3ics8MlMmEVckhTbpqW/cLapOxzuuWjpFyIXhLueufZCM 8Xr7RpF0hyc9DhZt8ezCRTSSAHMUQcWKkSnG525RAJ/zFuLczv1h1NbwLevlgo+4 d3UNolr3bGaFIVTZF+hGc2xRSqBSTE63GcseC7KuKZ4RQOkMj3LxXHEM1pVYCe+q b8OlK+K3sLLVhSVwoiqe9aD5CPEgcQnYkdxW+oDX5n1Sd/MGpIHP/j0pOPCTSqej rOGrb2LutnGue5ndNsb7b/6ocuhCg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdegvddggeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtke ertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthif ohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehhfeutdehfe fgfefghfekhefguefgieduueegjeekfeelleeuieffteefueduueenucfkphepvdefrddu vdegrddutddrudejtdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.1.69] (23-124-10-170.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [23.124.10.170]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 08:00:31 -0400 (EDT) To: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Keith Moore Message-ID: <0edbb73b-5b14-8090-8f9b-bd9738fcb3c7@network-heretics.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 08:00:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 12:00:49 -0000 I like the idea, but maybe show their email address in italic font, or gray text rather than black.  Strikethrough seems disrespectful, almost gloating.   Perhaps also avoid putting the email address in a link with a mailto: URL. Maybe call the section at the bottom of the page "Memorials" rather than "Testimonials".  I think we honor the deceased more by recalling incidents that reveal their personalities, what they cared about, etc.  rather than praising them. I think it might be somewhat difficult for the secretariat to find members of some participants' families. Keith (For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever looked at a person's datatracker page before.   I went looking for mine and eventually found it, but only after making about 5 queries with the document search interface that failed to find any documents written by "Keith Moore" despite there being several RFCs and one active I-D written or co-written by me.) On 5/6/21 4:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote: > The IETF is a community where people participate for many years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. So when community participants pass away, there is often a widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as we’ve seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those individuals and their contributions. > > The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. > > We propose that when we are informed of someone’s passing and we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: > > * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials below is added > > * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do not want it used without consideration > > * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and the date of publication. > > The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with the deceased’s family or other members of the community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials cannot be anonymous. > > We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. > From nobody Fri May 7 12:51:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5FC3A304F for ; Fri, 7 May 2021 12:51:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PJVnTiaRgOxV; Fri, 7 May 2021 12:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 438473A3489; Fri, 7 May 2021 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Message-Id: <686DE0F9-577D-468D-A4AD-08B48B9DA74A@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_871B29EF-7533-4409-B5D2-BF38D6D8694C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 07:46:20 +1200 In-Reply-To: <0edbb73b-5b14-8090-8f9b-bd9738fcb3c7@network-heretics.com> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: Keith Moore References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> <0edbb73b-5b14-8090-8f9b-bd9738fcb3c7@network-heretics.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 19:51:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_871B29EF-7533-4409-B5D2-BF38D6D8694C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 8/05/2021, at 12:00 AM, Keith Moore = wrote: >=20 > I like the idea, but maybe show their email address in italic font, or = gray text rather than black. Strikethrough seems disrespectful, almost = gloating. Perhaps also avoid putting the email address in a link with = a mailto: URL. >=20 > Maybe call the section at the bottom of the page "Memorials" rather = than "Testimonials". I think we honor the deceased more by recalling = incidents that reveal their personalities, what they cared about, etc. = rather than praising them. Those seem sensible suggestions - thank you. Jay >=20 > I think it might be somewhat difficult for the secretariat to find = members of some participants' families. >=20 > Keith >=20 > (For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever looked at a person's = datatracker page before. I went looking for mine and eventually found = it, but only after making about 5 queries with the document search = interface that failed to find any documents written by "Keith Moore" = despite there being several RFCs and one active I-D written or = co-written by me.) >=20 > On 5/6/21 4:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote: >> The IETF is a community where people participate for many years, = often decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many = friends. For some it becomes the defining community of their life's = work. So when community participants pass away, there is often a widely = felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous = plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those individuals = and their contributions. >>=20 >> The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this = by establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF = participants. >>=20 >> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and = we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as = follows: >>=20 >> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added >>=20 >> * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration >>=20 >> * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled = "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the = community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be = plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata = being the name of the author and the date of publication. >>=20 >> The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can = write one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure = that it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they = will consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All = genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials = cannot be anonymous. >>=20 >> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all = feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately = to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_871B29EF-7533-4409-B5D2-BF38D6D8694C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 8/05/2021, at 12:00 AM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:

I like the idea, but maybe show = their email address in italic font, or gray text rather than = black.  Strikethrough seems disrespectful, almost = gloating.   Perhaps also avoid putting the email address in a = link with a mailto: URL.

Maybe call the section at the bottom of the page "Memorials" = rather than "Testimonials".  I think we honor the deceased more by = recalling incidents that reveal their personalities, what they cared = about, etc.  rather than praising them.

Those seem = sensible suggestions - thank you.

Jay



I think it might be somewhat = difficult for the secretariat to find members of some participants' = families.

Keith
(For what it's worth, I don't = think I've ever looked at a person's datatracker page = before.   I went looking for mine and eventually found it, but = only after making about 5 queries with the document search interface = that failed to find any documents written by "Keith Moore" despite there = being several RFCs and one active I-D written or co-written by = me.)

On 5/6/21 = 4:23 PM, IETF Executive Director wrote:
The IETF is a community where people = participate for many years, often decades, contribute a huge amount over = that time and make many friends.  For some it becomes the defining = community of their life's work.  So when community participants = pass away, there is often a widely felt and long-lasting impact and, as = we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary sessions, there are many who = want to remember those individuals and their contributions.

The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose = that we recognise this by establishing permanent online memorials for = deceased IETF participants.

We propose that = when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to = confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a = link to any testimonials below is added

* = their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration

* a = new section appears at the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", = which displays any testimonials that members of the community have = submitted about that person. Initially these will be plain text, without = images or other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the = author and the date of publication.

The = proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one = and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it = is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will = consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All = genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. =  Testimonials cannot be anonymous.

We = welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021.  Please send all = feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org.


-- admin-discuss mailing = list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_871B29EF-7533-4409-B5D2-BF38D6D8694C-- From nobody Sat May 8 07:10:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4644F3A18CD; Sat, 8 May 2021 07:09:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mvS8_fqCQYMX; Sat, 8 May 2021 07:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9632C3A18CF; Sat, 8 May 2021 07:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB466183AC; Sat, 8 May 2021 10:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id FdCZV1LNYena; Sat, 8 May 2021 10:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C5B18047; Sat, 8 May 2021 10:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D757A2; Sat, 8 May 2021 10:08:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: admin-discuss@ietf.org cc: iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 14:09:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IETF Executive Director wrote: > We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and= we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: > * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonia= ls below is added Good. > We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all > feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately > to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. This sounds great to me. I don't think that we need to make this a strongly litigated policy; I'd li= ke to allow the IESG and ExecDir to use their judgement to adjust and change presentation going forward. May I assume that this will apply to Jim Schaad? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmCWm3gACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW+bggArP4dMbKza8jfrGXfc4WCcYFQdHZKW1Xc/QVi5u11BmSVHgSo8orzrVDK NyAxaolbByUWaMVBG70rWkTBWJ7pFCvOfBNnxhnD/NQls3T41tK05I686XXZ2+PZ ilAP27J2S6Grj6zNgVtZ12kUagRDnh63ZSB2uylNCQhua0ofwC6Yufimcwsc7/y8 DXpNmjTBSCBlIpyRfVHU5j3Ub1rUBoLCh1LXTbtRw2wVCQ/vpg0DMAoxmRw1m9Xh 7Xn8F23eVTLDo0v0MTD2/ylVYmLLd4Qht7YjC2bonsy4yk6EaIMjhTa4rs1O/HIz aDVkKOfuK0NJxLAAfxNxEQtykor1Sw== =OwYX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat May 8 15:36:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE283A17F4; Sat, 8 May 2021 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9K68fP-UQDQj; Sat, 8 May 2021 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 999E33A17E8; Sat, 8 May 2021 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6440F59E-A05E-4602-A6A0-E6F91171F589 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jay Daley Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 10:36:03 +1200 Message-Id: <5CF4FA29-D7DA-4DBA-83D8-5AD02F3CFAA0@ietf.org> References: <2634.1620482937@localhost> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <2634.1620482937@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18D70) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 22:36:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6440F59E-A05E-4602-A6A0-E6F91171F589 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 9/05/2021, at 2:09 AM, Michael Richardson wrote= : >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > IETF Executive Director wrote: >> We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we a= re able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows: >=20 >> * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials b= elow is added >=20 > Good. >=20 >> We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all >> feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately >> to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. >=20 > This sounds great to me. > I don't think that we need to make this a strongly litigated policy; I'd l= ike > to allow the IESG and ExecDir to use their judgement to adjust and change > presentation going forward. >=20 > May I assume that this will apply to Jim Schaad? If the proposal is agreed then we would start by contacting everyone who pre= pared a memorial piece for a plenary and ask them if they want that added to= Datatracker. That may be some time off as this change has to be added to th= e list of planned Datatracker development work.=20 Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consult= ing ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --Apple-Mail-6440F59E-A05E-4602-A6A0-E6F91171F589 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 9/05/2021, at 2:09 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.c= a> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
IETF Executive Director <exec-direc= tor@ietf.org> wrote:
We propose= that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to c= onfirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* "(deceased)" is sh= own after their name and a link to any testimonials below is added

Good.

We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 202= 1.  Please send all
feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately
to the IESG at iesg@ie= tf.org.

This sounds great to m= e.
I don't think that we need to make this a strongly litiga= ted policy; I'd like
to allow the IESG and ExecDir to use th= eir judgement to adjust and change
presentation going forwar= d.

May I assume that this will apply to Jim= Schaad?

If the proposal is= agreed then we would start by contacting everyone who prepared a memorial p= iece for a plenary and ask them if they want that added to Datatracker. That= may be some time off as this change has to be added to the list of planned D= atatracker development work. 

Jay
--&= nbsp;
= Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director


--
Michael Richard= son <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng )
         =  Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
= --Apple-Mail-6440F59E-A05E-4602-A6A0-E6F91171F589-- From nobody Sun May 9 10:40:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D173A1785; Sun, 9 May 2021 10:40:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fwfwPQ8DryLq; Sun, 9 May 2021 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb29.google.com (mail-yb1-xb29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 488053A1783; Sun, 9 May 2021 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb29.google.com with SMTP id i4so18616809ybe.2; Sun, 09 May 2021 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vLFy6+RJu6D9FBPqUykHsrqVP+V8qeXXRSv27kZdkW8=; b=YlpdobvpcNaqs7oUmtIQIkx7Z9ClfzfqCQLHeV/GEZ6+yhQl/S8T7tyCwowtRqUZD0 i2oh1yvHdcdw4c9wPYXmGoXjFzhAhx/YQl6cCTaN4VG5v7p6isEMCWMeSQGtdJ0rvtqA K8cpTC5dHsS2rudd6oXQkIxRYAom8Cunyv/7xkbQqaS7nUKbIrQAYkPhVhVf9Pq/0m9D O06KGdgMSceIci6gq1eWtxhdJrdX0swew+vDD4WI/+khE8xH1iDk2+jNGkMJhuFUssaJ jT/7p5ehBHjakdjJA7sHb01nxd+/JVnXS7YOz3K8O1CLaDPvFGv4MTsWph63GtVzdlFq Fbcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vLFy6+RJu6D9FBPqUykHsrqVP+V8qeXXRSv27kZdkW8=; b=IJolnwpY/8dqpUs4igux+J+GVu85nxRDcXqoSYbcmYil2g5OAUjpfXMGhzWWrGxiVm Yh4K3IVG6S4Rk8wVXg1cHlPTyD+mNMGI2aiCpXhzhEnheeCodbn0LLVdr4QmJCPelZ+E 7FJMW6xIfFsNfXvlwYhFwwJ38pj2wvEvrAJ62RkUQiVaHyhkQoU2j4NOIVnic/3MaGj1 0lgO6dl3DA2eJkkU3pqh+1yBsp99BU4BrBIg96ejkmLcqcyhNMTNEYCJVrTlI+htZ+6H P57b/tTHKjG4A80B4w1lGeniIbU01pT7YK7TCsG5XuBJKezv42IvOLn3sKmsnYlsaOIw JdkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZQ9Jq2Pdq239Cd3hEgz7HyIbHstSJOBo7Pq16orWC6Yb/u8mg yNxNWfQFcfWuQq4ziemMRoz6Y9gMr+UkhYpfEIFw4Gfl/3o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzRTyBdazv0/c0E05FX4SLwfWkIiPw3k4wudi313FI+mkCowucF4igIRvgTZY0J14Z8Vu5bf96WeT7qSUhp/ZU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:5d0b:: with SMTP id r11mr27677585ybb.380.1620582045578; Sun, 09 May 2021 10:40:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 12:40:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Cc: Jay Daley , Greg Wood , Lars Eggert , Mirja Kuehlewind Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000027f9fe05c1e92906" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 May 2021 17:40:52 -0000 --00000000000027f9fe05c1e92906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I just participated in the thread about the survey Jay described in this blog post, and am pleased and embarrassed to learn that the blog post answered basically all of my questions fully, but I don't pay CLOSE attention to IETF-Announce, so did not see that the blog had been published. This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailing list only for blog announcements? I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month; I still look at the IETF Discussion list every week or two, and it's mostly not a sewer these days, but I know a lot of people don't subscribe (Mark Nottingham gloried in unsubscribing), and even being subscribed, it's easy for me to miss blog posts that are actually pretty important to me (especially about BOFs, but not only that). I figure it's even easier for other people to miss them. Just to level-set, I love the IETF and had never even noticed admin-discuss - I had to look at the mailman page to figure out if I could reply to it! I know communication is hard (even when Greg is helping with communication). Do The Right Thing, of course ... Best, Spencer On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:10 PM IETF Executive Director < exec-director@ietf.org> wrote: > We will shortly be sending out an invitation to participate in our first > annual IETF community survey to the ~56,000 email addresses subscribed to > IETF mailing lists. To find out more about this survey, please see this > blog post > > https://www.ietf.org/blog/first-annual-ietf-community-survey/ > > Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions > > -- > Jay Daley > IETF Executive Director > exec-director@ietf.org > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > --00000000000027f9fe05c1e92906 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just participated in the thread about the survey Ja= y described in this blog post, and am pleased and embarrassed to learn that= the blog post answered basically all of my questions fully, but I don'= t pay CLOSE attention to IETF-Announce, so did not see that the blog had be= en published.=C2=A0

This is a silly=C2=A0question,= but have people thought about having a mailing list only for blog announce= ments?=C2=A0

I don't need to look at IETF-Anno= unce more than once a month; I still look at the IETF Discussion list every= week or two, and it's mostly not a sewer these days, but I know a lot = of people don't subscribe (Mark Nottingham gloried in unsubscribing), a= nd even being subscribed, it's easy for me to miss blog posts that are = actually pretty important=C2=A0to me (especially about BOFs, but not only t= hat). I figure it's even easier for other people to miss them.

Just to level-set, I love the IETF and had never even noti= ced admin-discuss - I had to look at the mailman page to figure out if I co= uld reply to it! I know communication is hard (even when Greg is helping wi= th communication).=C2=A0

Do The Right Thing, of co= urse ...=C2=A0
Best,

Spencer
<= br>


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 7:10 PM IETF Executive Director &l= t;exec-director@ietf.org> = wrote:
We will s= hortly be sending out an invitation to participate in our first annual IETF= community survey to the ~56,000 email addresses subscribed to IETF mailing= lists.=C2=A0 To find out more about this survey, please see this blog post=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www= .ietf.org/blog/first-annual-ietf-community-survey/

Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions

--
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
exec-director@i= etf.org

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announ= ce
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[122.56.207.222]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 128sm9228079pfy.194.2021.05.09.12.47.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 May 2021 12:47:47 -0700 (PDT) To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , admin-discuss@ietf.org Cc: Greg Wood , Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind , Lars Eggert References: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <6752d720-27fb-8dbf-db57-498e4506fb93@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 07:47:42 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 May 2021 19:48:00 -0000 Hi Spencer, > This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailing list only for blog announcements? That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something you keep an eye on if interested? > I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities. Regards Brian From nobody Sun May 9 13:24:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809523A1E7D; Sun, 9 May 2021 13:24:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TU-P5KUu-uda; Sun, 9 May 2021 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb29.google.com (mail-yb1-xb29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2D403A1E7B; Sun, 9 May 2021 13:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb29.google.com with SMTP id i4so18933904ybe.2; Sun, 09 May 2021 13:23:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7wyqTDKfrO5W2Sx6Pl+Ci7CoDpkkOsVzWoz/03JZunU=; b=b4BcWC65oCWaWhp/8ElH989qTEqTlsdlE2jjNr1PHWzOPQaGLHLQE4+kWOqvW1UnF1 moWKxcMV80AJB0ZdRs564lDoJOW9IQXBTkvpxnC2FWt7Cx2Fy2gF+z3ykJRGesOry/gi 7rSUGBJkRUIexOZeJoGrU8HOxGADWwFB4OaukiyNAK+PscBAlykRUbQzkw9Jam3InptC Gg3p0sgnjbnG1leLfrZ7sTwUVe73AsCKQA+Y4nfO5m7fjJTcfVrgmqzNx0I4Sria80QJ hbknF9vhVRrpFA+Dkmd1SOH4v7reIdP1G+0lUe7N6lr1+YyZIAt9AHsMgSnrQbQ9VEzf eSCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7wyqTDKfrO5W2Sx6Pl+Ci7CoDpkkOsVzWoz/03JZunU=; b=DLcR19NM50HVM0K1Ayj/7FLagtE15JFTp6T4WdtX7oJmk1Wy1twnb7DPiNfYjKmHGa 51KwCigISMwUadJnibmlBHPNXxI7L3kNuGIG5cdEE3OrDyp1a7o8BrcyRvzwTXznC+WL 6bo0VGA9aULbcuqO0BiQ61PPZ5VhCkbWi7S2p7BjGISMIMwl31NFn8EKygwM5BWrWIC5 a3ESpECfStp/6ufhEO7p88uCHHgXroW6OFLsFOxo3DMxggSDTre0iPtX41GFFOCfS4fr TUQeGOAZuzuqJY/0D9r8si5j2DXVE4Rp4K0igtsTA7+3m264CVEiZIvjss8VFE56/5zX 4p5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533WiJKLTQu1zjzDWk8dIiM46Eib9WY55zms/iwEUrbltzu3lrB3 WuTWrrHGVLPy6dP6RKonvr2R1GUKf3c7qYsBOLg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuGZ7wk+h1oo0TPsKp0XLjEaiHlPovJbAOJ7brYX2sp65nsckHoReSL8HyT3Q3XWUWa4gP8VgmnibweikdPmg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:1883:: with SMTP id 125mr27035950yby.465.1620591835493; Sun, 09 May 2021 13:23:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> <6752d720-27fb-8dbf-db57-498e4506fb93@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6752d720-27fb-8dbf-db57-498e4506fb93@gmail.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 15:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, Greg Wood , Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind , Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ae399105c1eb707e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 May 2021 20:24:03 -0000 --000000000000ae399105c1eb707e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Brian, On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Hi Spencer, > > > This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailing > list only for blog announcements? > > That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something > you keep an eye on if interested? > Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would keep an eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you asked about me specifically, the answer is "apparently not". > I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month > > Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it > gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. > It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities. > Excellent. I'm honestly glad someone does. And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting in at least two other email threads that aren't on working group mailing lists. More eyes are helpful. I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week. I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 and SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of weeks ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and even IETF people whose professional responsibility is heavily tilted toward standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs who make most of their progress in a blur of email and round-the-clock teleconferences during week-long meetings, which are pretty distracting for some of us. This might have been a silly suggestion (and you well know that it would not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having to silently subscribe 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order to reach the IETF community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to either the IETF discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new datapoint to consider. Like I said. "Do The Right Thing". I hope we do, whatever that is. Best, Spencer Regards > Brian > --000000000000ae399105c1eb707e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Brian,

On Sun, May= 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Spencer,

> This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a maili= ng list only for blog announcements?

That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something= you keep an eye on if interested?

Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is &= quot;something a smart person would keep an eye on if interested", the= answer could=C2=A0be "yes", but since you asked about me specifi= cally, the answer is "apparently not".
> I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more th= an once a month

Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it get= s new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. = It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities.

Excelle= nt. I'm honestly glad someone does.=C2=A0

And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting i= n at least two other email threads that aren't on working group mailing= lists. More eyes are helpful.=C2=A0

I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week.=C2=A0
=

I'm a former AD and IAB m= ember. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 and SA4, and apparently n= ow (as of a couple of weeks=C2=A0ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and even IETF people who= se professional responsibility is heavily tilted toward standards participa= tion may also be participating in other SDOs who make most of their progres= s in a blur of email and round-the-clock teleconferences during week-long m= eetings, which are pretty distracting for some of us.

This might have been a silly suggestion (and = you well know that it would not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay = having to silently subscribe 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list i= n order to reach the IETF community because so many IETF people are not sub= scribed to either the IETF discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new= datapoint to consider.

= Like I said. "Do The Right Thing".=C2=A0
<= br>
I hope we do, whatever that is.

Best,

<= div dir=3D"auto">Spencer

Reg= ards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian
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-0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> <6752d720-27fb-8dbf-db57-498e4506fb93@gmail.com> <14BA5048-91C8-484F-96B4-067B657B60B9@cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <14BA5048-91C8-484F-96B4-067B657B60B9@cable.comcast.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:58:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Greg Wood , admin-discuss@ietf.org, Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind , Lars Eggert Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b25e4005c200df89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 21:58:19 -0000 --000000000000b25e4005c200df89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jason, On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:48 Livingood, Jason wrote: > FWIW, typically when a blog post goes live there is also an email to IETF > announce + email to admin-discuss, as well as a tweet and LinkedIn post. > I=E2=80=99m sure Jay will take any other suggestions under advisement as = we > continue to improve communications. > I am now following IETF LLC, IETF, and IETF in LinkedIn. Thank you for the invitation to join the 20th century. I also searched for the Internet Architecture Board, but there doesn't seem to be a LinkedIn account for them. Am I missing it? I'm still not doing Twitter, as of this moment, but it didn't look like the LinkedIn followers for the LLC and the IETF would get Jay much closer to the 50,000 email addresses that (by our definition) make up the IETF community. But I'll let the people the community selected to think about this Do The Right Thing. Best, as always! Spencer > > > Jason > > > > *From: *admin-discuss on behalf of > Spencer Dawkins at IETF > *Date: *Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:24 PM > *To: *Brian E Carpenter > *Cc: *Greg Wood , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" < > admin-discuss@ietf.org>, Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind < > ietf@kuehlewind.net>, Lars Eggert > *Subject: *Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey > > > > Hi, Brian, > > > > On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter > wrote: > > Hi Spencer, > > > This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a mailin= g > list only for blog announcements? > > That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something > you keep an eye on if interested? > > > > Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would keep > an eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you asked > about me specifically, the answer is "apparently not". > > > > > I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month > > Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it > gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. > It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities. > > > > Excellent. I'm honestly glad someone does. > > > > And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting in at least two other > email threads that aren't on working group mailing lists. More eyes are > helpful. > > > > I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week. > > > > I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 an= d > SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of weeks ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and ev= en > IETF people whose professional responsibility is heavily tilted toward > standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs who make > most of their progress in a blur of email and round-the-clock > teleconferences during week-long meetings, which are pretty distracting f= or > some of us. > > > > This might have been a silly suggestion (and you well know that it would > not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having to silently subscri= be > 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order to reach the IETF > community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to either the IE= TF > discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new datapoint to consider. > > > > Like I said. "Do The Right Thing". > > > > I hope we do, whatever that is. > > > > Best, > > > > Spencer > > > > Regards > Brian > > --000000000000b25e4005c200df89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jason,

On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:48 Livingood, Jason= <Jason_Livingood@comcast= .com> wrote:

FWIW, typically whe= n a blog post goes live there is also an email to IETF announce + email to = admin-discuss, as well as a tweet and LinkedIn post. I=E2=80=99m sure Jay w= ill take any other suggestions under advisement as we continue to improve communications.

I am now following IETF LLC, IETF, and IET= F in LinkedIn. Thank you for the invitation to join the 20th century.=C2=A0=

I also searched for the= Internet Architecture Board, but there doesn't seem to be a LinkedIn a= ccount for them. Am I missing it?

I'm still not doing Twitter, as of this moment, but it didn&#= 39;t look like the LinkedIn followers for the LLC and the IETF would get Ja= y much closer to the 50,000 email addresses that (by our definition) make u= p the IETF community.

Bu= t I'll let the people the community selected to think about this Do The= Right Thing.

Best, as a= lways!

Spencer

=C2=A0

Jason=

=C2=A0

From= : admin-discuss <= ;admin-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Spencer Da= wkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:24 PM
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com&g= t;
Cc: Greg Wood <ghwood@ietf.org>, "admin-discuss@ietf= .org" <admin-discuss@ietf.org>, Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org= >, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, Lars Eggert &l= t;l= ars@eggert.org>
Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey

=C2=A0

Hi, Brian,

=C2=A0

On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Spencer,

> This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a maili= ng list only for blog announcements?

That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog something= you keep an eye on if interested?

=C2=A0

Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "someth= ing a smart person would keep an eye on if interested", the answer cou= ld=C2=A0be "yes", but since you asked about me specifically, the = answer is "apparently not".

=C2=A0

> I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more = than once a month

Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever it get= s new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a month. = It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities.=

=C2=A0

Excellent. I'm honestly glad someone does.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting = in at least two other email threads that aren't on working group mailin= g lists. More eyes are helpful.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also= participating in 3GPP SA2 and SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of w= eeks=C2=A0ago) JTC 1/SC 29, and even IETF people whose professional respons= ibility is heavily tilted toward standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs who make most of their progress in= a blur of email and round-the-clock teleconferences during week-long meeti= ngs, which are pretty distracting for some of us.

=C2=A0

This might have been a silly suggestion (and you wel= l know that it would not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having = to silently subscribe 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order= to reach the IETF community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to either the IETF discussion list = or ietf-announce, might be a new datapoint to consider.

=C2=A0

Like I said. "Do The Right Thing".=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I hope we do, whatever that is.

=C2=A0

Best,

=C2=A0

Spencer

=C2=A0

Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

--000000000000b25e4005c200df89-- From nobody Mon May 10 16:18:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F89C3A2EBC; Mon, 10 May 2021 16:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uA_WZIYStDWT; Mon, 10 May 2021 16:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-72-66-99-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.99.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61DEA3A2EB5; Mon, 10 May 2021 16:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.43\)) From: Greg Wood In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 19:18:35 -0400 Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind , Lars Eggert , admin-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <162034618739.27505.17182642313714221094@ietfa.amsl.com> <6752d720-27fb-8dbf-db57-498e4506fb93@gmail.com> <14BA5048-91C8-484F-96B4-067B657B60B9@cable.comcast.com> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.43) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 23:18:42 -0000 Hi Spencer, Just FYI (and of possible interest to others), it should be possible to = see what the IETF and IAB (and IRTF) are up to on Twitter without = creating an account: https://twitter.com/ietf https://twitter.com/intarchboard https://twitter.com/inretafo The IETF Twitter account has about 13,000 followers, though I expect not = all of them are IETF participants (at the moment). -Greg > On May 10, 2021, at 5:58 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Jason, >=20 > On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:48 Livingood, Jason = wrote: > FWIW, typically when a blog post goes live there is also an email to = IETF announce + email to admin-discuss, as well as a tweet and LinkedIn = post. I=E2=80=99m sure Jay will take any other suggestions under = advisement as we continue to improve communications. >=20 > I am now following IETF LLC, IETF, and IETF in LinkedIn. Thank you for = the invitation to join the 20th century.=20 >=20 > I also searched for the Internet Architecture Board, but there doesn't = seem to be a LinkedIn account for them. Am I missing it? >=20 > I'm still not doing Twitter, as of this moment, but it didn't look = like the LinkedIn followers for the LLC and the IETF would get Jay much = closer to the 50,000 email addresses that (by our definition) make up = the IETF community. >=20 > But I'll let the people the community selected to think about this Do = The Right Thing. >=20 > Best, as always! >=20 > Spencer > =20 >=20 > Jason >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: admin-discuss on behalf of = Spencer Dawkins at IETF > Date: Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:24 PM > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: Greg Wood , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" = , Jay Daley , Mirja Kuehlewind = , Lars Eggert > Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] First annual IETF community survey >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi, Brian, >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Sun, May 9, 2021, 14:47 Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Hi Spencer, >=20 > > This is a silly question, but have people thought about having a = mailing list only for blog announcements? >=20 > That almost seems like a contradiction in terms. Isn't a blog = something you keep an eye on if interested? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Perhaps if you'd asked if a blog is "something a smart person would = keep an eye on if interested", the answer could be "yes", but since you = asked about me specifically, the answer is "apparently not". >=20 > =20 >=20 > > I don't need to look at IETF-Announce more than once a month >=20 > Huh? I have a dedicated inbox for ietf-announce that I read whenever = it gets new mail. I can't imagine ignoring it for a week, let alone a = month. It's right behind the WGs of greatest interest in my priorities. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Excellent. I'm honestly glad someone does.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > And I say that, knowing that you and I are chatting in at least two = other email threads that aren't on working group mailing lists. More = eyes are helpful.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I don't need to read Ietf-announce every week.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I'm a former AD and IAB member. But I'm also participating in 3GPP SA2 = and SA4, and apparently now (as of a couple of weeks ago) JTC 1/SC 29, = and even IETF people whose professional responsibility is heavily tilted = toward standards participation may also be participating in other SDOs = who make most of their progress in a blur of email and round-the-clock = teleconferences during week-long meetings, which are pretty distracting = for some of us. >=20 > =20 >=20 > This might have been a silly suggestion (and you well know that it = would not have been my first), but I wondered if Jay having to silently = subscribe 50,000 email addresses to a new mailing list in order to reach = the IETF community because so many IETF people are not subscribed to = either the IETF discussion list or ietf-announce, might be a new = datapoint to consider. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Like I said. "Do The Right Thing".=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I hope we do, whatever that is. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Best, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Spencer >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards > Brian >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss -- Greg Wood IETF LLC +1-703-625-3917 From nobody Wed May 12 13:07:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFCA3A10CE for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gk5Q7MsA0p0T for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCAC43A0FDB for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:07:02 +1200 To: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] New consent message X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 20:07:11 -0000 We have now added a message about consent for recording of audio, video = and still images to Webex and Zoom, with Meetecho to follow. This = message is: =E2=80=9CThe IETF routinely makes recordings of online and in-person = meetings, including audio, video and photographs, and publishes those = recordings=20 online. If you turn on your camera and/or microphone then you = consent=20 to appearing in such recordings.=E2=80=9D A similar message will appear in the meeting registration system =E2=80=9CThe IETF routinely makes recordings of online and in-person = meetings,=20 including audio, video and photographs, and publishes those = recordings=20 online. If you participate in person and choose not to wear a red=20 =E2=80=9Cdo-not-photograph=E2=80=9D lanyard, then you consent to = appear in such=20 recordings and if you speak at a microphone, appear on a panel or = carry=20 out an official duty as a member of IETF leadership then you consent = to=20 appearing in recordings of you at that time. If you participate = online,=20 and turn on your camera and/or microphone, then you consent to appear=20= in such recordings.=E2=80=9D These messages have been added as a result of legal advice received = about the need to explicitly inform people that they are giving consent = when they do certain things, however implicitly obvious it may be. Both = Webex and Zoom require people to agree to this message, which isn=E2=80=99= t strictly necessary as the consent is given by turning on the camera = etc not agreeing to this message, but Webex and Zoom only work one way = and there=E2=80=99s no harm in the extra step. There is still the issue that side-meetings need to display something = similar, which we are addressing with guidance to side meeting = organisers. Please let me know if you have any questions. Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org From nobody Wed May 12 13:58:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EC63A15A3 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cqUZUV_hiEPE for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62e.google.com (mail-pl1-x62e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1C5E3A15A0 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id t21so13200430plo.2 for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JWj44DclGOUt6oE1xvJbARLJqmy3WsBrTECS9DFm6GY=; b=SuiBNhKnRZftu3a6nNidgkxY0jp1PG9RlWhGwL/AVdY33zaJrcbPsqvmVCHc3GfdOJ ukVoOmIhlpYi2Wo9EYcvLoGpnMPdbGVHLwzLBxN1N/jkMQHNKAZPhKogh+5CmgI0XCX3 TOQBPaZ4Cw15OptDwfQdcHgSt6d4QfOrkHPPrGWL2TDyDKwpPjFspr6FR6tcE4E4lOeM vLxOerwB0HmP9kz6GHc33Rre1mWt1oh++iVKYMfJ28eF63a6JrmMr2Mbs9cyIYJrh5C1 YSlzsHeLd79HqWGVAYVTB3sucMjM7c9QKOQsQ9WFcA/5slx1MHCt116xFS0C3zRRp6QA lA6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JWj44DclGOUt6oE1xvJbARLJqmy3WsBrTECS9DFm6GY=; b=jkLvvCHFXX/kSd5poIVaV/d+Ckp8qvpsPujrBi4b30bqVFHCsDnXfQ92KcygBNn8Sr oOsccFPTWFQrftZb/ZK44r6hMZp9pHkq1mc9DMZxh8VznxQYkz42CO/B3N8eZU2vI5dK 5FdhrixJTzE+PNAswCWTPEmM8xQ3Ld80SUcP7WcDu9UVMlSRB6Zsop5vllo4FVG6krxM 1yU0yaPsaJAX/z2/89NYQ5U0z0zcO58YXl3j7ueDZ0NmyF/5Zv3hyCFZt+ytrPJKiiYa rxpGhkBEsZ+NEvwqNdwKblQbIxVSl3lb61DNR4sb9eqRG26bA9cija2K87O8kF0p1+G0 YlcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530r0tsWF8zG5ObVeR5Dz8tlTjHLifcrydn9aDaao4GC96bIpfFR B8EaAQMRzT02VoTXBub3zd8yOYvSm6fOyg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/zKoY2lpPRRnix5ZGN00NoM+vFKBdboChvdQQAByODu56inSAuBPuYYC8locQZ1e2oJk/jw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:248e:b029:ec:9fd5:eef4 with SMTP id p14-20020a170903248eb02900ec9fd5eef4mr36629794plw.81.1620853102091; Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k7sm607266pfc.16.2021.05.12.13.58.20 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 May 2021 13:58:21 -0700 (PDT) To: admin-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <327598b8-9123-6028-a457-ab9743eddd23@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 08:58:17 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] New consent message X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 20:58:27 -0000 On 13-May-21 08:07, Jay Daley wrote: > We have now added a message about consent for recording of audio, video=20 and still images to Webex and Zoom, with Meetecho to follow. This messag= e is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe IETF routinely makes recordings of online and in-person = meetings, > including audio, video and photographs, and publishes those recordin= gs=20 > online. If you turn on your camera and/or microphone then you conse= nt=20 > to appearing in such recordings.=E2=80=9D >=20 > A similar message will appear in the meeting registration system >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe IETF routinely makes recordings of online and in-person = meetings,=20 > including audio, video and photographs, and publishes those recordin= gs=20 > online. If you participate in person and choose not to wear a red=20 > =E2=80=9Cdo-not-photograph=E2=80=9D lanyard, then you consent to app= ear in such=20 > recordings and if you speak at a microphone, appear on a panel or ca= rry=20 > out an official duty as a member of IETF leadership then you consent=20 to=20 > appearing in recordings of you at that time. If you participate onl= ine,=20 > and turn on your camera and/or microphone, then you consent to appea= r=20 > in such recordings.=E2=80=9D >=20 > These messages have been added as a result of legal advice received abo= ut the need to explicitly inform people that they are giving consent when=20 they do certain things, however implicitly obvious it may be. Both Webex=20 and Zoom require people to agree to this message, which isn=E2=80=99t str= ictly necessary as the consent is given by turning on the camera etc not = agreeing to this message, but Webex and Zoom only work one way and there=E2= =80=99s no harm in the extra step. >=20 > There is still the issue that side-meetings need to display something s= imilar, which we are addressing with guidance to side meeting organisers.= >=20 > Please let me know if you have any questions. No questions, just a comment that the Note Well has covered this for many=20 years (since December 2006, in fact, when the IETF Trust requested it). Brian =20 From nobody Wed May 12 14:58:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DDE43A181F for ; Wed, 12 May 2021 14:58:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JLDtFmuDJ2eL; Wed, 12 May 2021 14:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B2493A42CC; Wed, 12 May 2021 14:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-0559D72C-5DEC-453F-953F-70DAF0071C62 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jay Daley Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 09:37:19 +1200 Message-Id: References: <327598b8-9123-6028-a457-ab9743eddd23@gmail.com> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <327598b8-9123-6028-a457-ab9743eddd23@gmail.com> To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18E212) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] New consent message X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 21:58:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail-0559D72C-5DEC-453F-953F-70DAF0071C62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 13/05/2021, at 8:58 AM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Please let me know if you have any questions. >=20 > No questions, just a comment that the Note Well has covered this for many=20= > years (since December 2006, in fact, when the IETF Trust requested it). The Note Well doesn=E2=80=99t directly address consent, which is the purpose= of this notice. This is what the Note Well says: As a participant in or attendee to any IETF activity you acknowledge that wr= itten, audio, video, and photographic records of meetings may be made public= . Jay --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director +64 21 678840 >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss --Apple-Mail-0559D72C-5DEC-453F-953F-70DAF0071C62 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 13/05/2021, at 8:58 AM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gm= ail.com> wrote:



Please let me know if you have any questions.

No questions, just a comment that= the Note Well has covered this for many
years (since Decem= ber 2006, in fact, when the IETF Trust requested it).

The Note Well doesn=E2=80=99t directly address consent, wh= ich is the purpose of this notice. This is what the Note Well says:

=
  • As a participant in or attendee t= o any IETF activity you acknowledge that written, audio, video, and photogra= phic records of meetings may be made public.
Jay

=
-= - 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
+64 21 678840

   = ;Brian


--
admin-discuss mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss
<= /blockquote>= --Apple-Mail-0559D72C-5DEC-453F-953F-70DAF0071C62-- From nobody Sun May 30 14:04:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529143A13ED for ; Sun, 30 May 2021 14:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iJXX3LPAiG6n for ; Sun, 30 May 2021 14:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A49F3A13EB for ; Sun, 30 May 2021 14:04:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Daley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C9964BC-53E1-4C92-918E-2B9630F2D753" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 09:04:18 +1200 References: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> To: admin-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <162033260001.19998.7954176236291037839@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Establishing a permanent memorial for deceased IETF participants X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 21:04:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C9964BC-53E1-4C92-918E-2B9630F2D753 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Following up on this. Thank you for your responses to the consultation on establishing a = permanent memorial for departed IETF=E2=80=99rs. Based on the feedback, = our plan is to proceed with the proposal with the amendments below: - to add a checkbox in Datatracker that allows someone to opt-out of = being included in any memorial activity (including plenary sessions and = on the Datatracker). This opt-out will not stop the Datatracker from = stating that someone has deceased as that is a fact. - to change the wording from =E2=80=99testimonial=E2=80=99 to 'memorial'=20= - to add an 'in memoriam' page in the Datatracker that lists and links = to those remembered in this way - to display the email address in a grey font or otherwise, but not = strikethrough This will be written up as a change request for the Datatracker and left = to the Tools Team PM to prioritise appropriately. Please let us know if you think we missed something in the feedback. Jay and Lars > On 7/05/2021, at 8:23 AM, IETF Executive Director = wrote: >=20 > The IETF is a community where people participate for many years, often = decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friends. = For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. So = when community participants pass away, there is often a widely felt and = long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous plenary = sessions, there are many who want to remember those individuals and = their contributions. >=20 > The IESG and IETF Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by = establishing permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants. >=20 > We propose that when we are informed of someone=E2=80=99s passing and = we are able to confirm it, their Datatracker profile is updated as = follows: >=20 > * "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any = testimonials below is added >=20 > * their email address is shown in a strike-through font but remains = copyable, as their mail may be being handled by someone else and we do = not want it used without consideration >=20 > * a new section appears at the bottom of the page titled = "Testimonials", which displays any testimonials that members of the = community have submitted about that person. Initially these will be = plain text, without images or other formatting and the only metadata = being the name of the author and the date of publication. >=20 > The proposed process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write = one and send it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that = it is both respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will = consult with the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the = community who are known to have been friends of the deceased. All = genuine and respectful testimonials will be published. Testimonials = cannot be anonymous. >=20 > We welcome feedback on this proposal by 23 May 2021. Please send all = feedback to the admin discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately = to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org. =20 >=20 > --=20 > Jay Daley, IETF Executive Director > Lars Eggert, IETF Chair >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director jay@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_9C9964BC-53E1-4C92-918E-2B9630F2D753 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Following up on this.

Thank you for your responses to the consultation on = establishing a permanent memorial for departed IETF=E2=80=99rs. =  Based on the feedback, our plan is to proceed with the proposal = with the amendments below:

- to add a = checkbox in Datatracker that allows someone to opt-out of being included = in any memorial activity (including plenary sessions and on the = Datatracker).  This opt-out will not stop the Datatracker from = stating that someone has deceased as that is a fact.
- to change the wording from =E2=80=99testimonial=E2=80=99 to = 'memorial' 
- to add an 'in memoriam' page in the = Datatracker that lists and links to those remembered in this way
- to display the email address in a grey font or otherwise, = but not strikethrough

This will be written up as a change request for the = Datatracker and left to the Tools Team PM to prioritise = appropriately.

Please let us know if you think we missed something in the = feedback.

Jay = and Lars


On = 7/05/2021, at 8:23 AM, IETF Executive Director <exec-director@ietf.org> wrote:

The = IETF is a community where people participate for many years, often = decades, contribute a huge amount over that time and make many friends. =  For some it becomes the defining community of their life's work. =  So when community participants pass away, there is often a widely = felt and long-lasting impact and, as we=E2=80=99ve seen from previous = plenary sessions, there are many who want to remember those individuals = and their contributions.

The IESG and IETF = Administration LLC propose that we recognise this by establishing = permanent online memorials for deceased IETF participants.

We propose that when we are informed of = someone=E2=80=99s passing and we are able to confirm it, their = Datatracker profile is updated as follows:

* = "(deceased)" is shown after their name and a link to any testimonials = below is added

* their email address is = shown in a strike-through font but remains copyable, as their mail may = be being handled by someone else and we do not want it used without = consideration

* a new section appears at = the bottom of the page titled "Testimonials", which displays any = testimonials that members of the community have submitted about that = person.  Initially these will be plain text, without images or = other formatting and the only metadata being the name of the author and = the date of publication.

The proposed = process for adding a testimonial is that anyone can write one and send = it to the Secretariat, who will check it to make sure that it is both = respectful and genuine. If they are in any doubt, they will consult with = the deceased=E2=80=99s family or other members of the community who are = known to have been friends of the deceased.  All genuine and = respectful testimonials will be published.  Testimonials cannot be = anonymous.

We welcome feedback on this = proposal by 23 May 2021.  Please send all feedback to the admin = discuss list admin-discuss@ietf.org or privately to the IESG at iesg@ietf.org.  

--
Jay Daley, IETF Executive = Director
Lars Eggert, IETF Chair

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF = Executive Director
jay@ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_9C9964BC-53E1-4C92-918E-2B9630F2D753--