From nobody Mon Aug 2 09:55:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5553A0E46; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 09:55:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Administration LLC Board of Directors Chair To: "IETF Announcement List" Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <162792334025.25965.10981765250941395643@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:55:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] IETF NomCom LLC Role Requirements Consultation X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 16:55:41 -0000 As noted in our recent IASA2 retrospective (Requirement 34, discussion item 1) [1][2], the IETF LLC Board is following through to initiate the first of what we expect will be an annual process of seeking input on the IETF LLC board role requirements that are sent to the IETF NomCom each year. This consultation runs from 2 August to 15 August, 2021. The current role requirements [3] have remained the same since the LLC started and is based on both what appears in IASA2-related RFCs/BCPs as well as typical non-profit board needs. Please review the current role requirements [3] and let us know if you suggest any changes. You can provide feedback either via GitHub [4] or via email to admin-discuss@ietf.org. If you wish to comment, please do so by end of day 15 August 2021. Thank you, Maja & Peter on behalf of the IETF LLC Board [1] https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/blob/main/draft-iasa2-retrospective.md [2] https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/2 [3] https://github.com/ietf-llc/NomCom-Requirements/blob/main/Draft-2022-NomCom-Requirements.md [4] https://github.com/ietf-llc/NomCom-Requirements From nobody Wed Aug 4 12:26:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF6C3A12D5 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=att.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k7jlVdnodYu4 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EF423A1336 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049297.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 174JNw1A025914 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:28 -0400 Received: from alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp7.sbc.com [144.160.229.24]) by m0049297.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 3a7tsvhbw5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:26:27 -0400 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 174JQQWl029144 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:26 -0400 Received: from zlp27130.vci.att.com (zlp27130.vci.att.com [135.66.87.38]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 174JQJFG028983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:20 -0400 Received: from zlp27130.vci.att.com (zlp27130.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp27130.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id D2621400A0A2 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:26:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MISOUT7MSGEX2AA.ITServices.sbc.com (unknown [135.66.184.199]) by zlp27130.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id B8A7D400A011 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:26:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MISOUT7MSGEX2DF.ITServices.sbc.com (135.66.184.225) by MISOUT7MSGEX2AA.ITServices.sbc.com (135.66.184.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.14; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:19 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGETA01.tmg.ad.att.com (144.160.12.221) by MISOUT7MSGEX2DF.ITServices.sbc.com (135.66.184.225) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.8 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:19 -0400 Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.70.108) by edgeso1.exch.att.com (144.160.12.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2308.14; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:26:15 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=T7+03iPzn17iO29a1LMzbXm9WyUIqAwzorhwakm0VmWD6kw+d+ps0Minelk4g++9G6YG4BLRaAlfIILxL+3vCW5l0Ncs2a+Mjyvz7IcU+IGICR1OBY1Y75hjMUk+MEf/dnILxQW2Y1zpW3HN7+i5TXWC2+xxaHIfRCfZbXSymnipHo1cPXKDLExVWCZ4PSvLNK0uXWd8QRlt77xAWNHhGD6zb8B1gT8/r0OUVtBCKtwpu5OYoluLG99MWRhcAiAcO29EnpMv+78OijGYai4Vw8gmwA7F3WwLr2daSd+GH3KWUK9Ub2h9ErzxRBDBuBKxcf8SvHZvyrx6EOdFZAtFfg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=amiKhQBVCazsMAazr/xsFgzf6If/rcRAAa9xliHuXBE=; b=l6ITEJF5LI7grRzlyDTMNhBnu03PZdTfG7EWy1npzcJpSAeBFX9MBlq8tyNkl6cBa44azMTBhgSOCXWxspW92qu+b6cG+dKQ6Z3fiKtGIK9adl1upg00VTwAL2bjKn4b8GTMfra3K+cruFk7MTxE5Us7c34l8EKmyguABcC/9CrmvB27m90c6q30/L8igSG/2HbhXNHCma6SMYJ5/3hEx7vbBJ5Yydlv7zyrr/VXMnGBCXWP+AYAbSiv2cpzBQrp/RtTZDnmlmIhN0FWqu7YKJbRf1iwaQG3PUM+2G8Hi1qiuHk3Suz3L1xgV5hK1G9s3CpzQBr83TP3qZYRlaZLOA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=att.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=att.com; dkim=pass header.d=att.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-att-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=amiKhQBVCazsMAazr/xsFgzf6If/rcRAAa9xliHuXBE=; b=Z4zLN+w28v8X1wsDTU2P8PscQQ/v0KItnOh9Bp7GWahU7SUG15aNB1xv8+tqYZrGX1kxyAPGguI8T2g6mylFNsiY2ktd94syuOcGMJ6upabHUvKUX43KYAEhlukvHoUzimWuIsu3YMbBq6ecol66ToAeQEwNPFXFhCtLFj2+xBs= Received: from DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:25f::7) by DM5PR02MB2218.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:3:55::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.25; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:26:14 +0000 Received: from DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d019:8784:1d4c:6130]) by DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d019:8784:1d4c:6130%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.026; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:26:14 +0000 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: "'admin-discuss@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [admin-discuss] IETF NomCom LLC Role Requirements Consultation Thread-Index: AQHXh79cg9DRKGdiS0+y/hpRk9zTOqtjh06A Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:26:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <162792334025.25965.10981765250941395643@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <162792334025.25965.10981765250941395643@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=att.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fd69fb97-ddf3-43dc-3c84-08d9577db980 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR02MB2218: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(8676002)(2906002)(55016002)(508600001)(8936002)(38070700005)(7696005)(82202003)(9686003)(6506007)(66946007)(186003)(71200400001)(83380400001)(33656002)(76116006)(38100700002)(66476007)(86362001)(6916009)(122000001)(966005)(66446008)(64756008)(5660300002)(26005)(52536014)(66556008)(316002)(491001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?cdKAlhiubJHOdE9wVmZQl4vBlZOiauYSHs4ugIf8uO972lOqQhuF262AlwBs?= =?us-ascii?Q?qwK7owvKFMBM2xsc0WlY8CTYTEVkjFOprrFb75nfBXshBAhXlBqVNdYDx2My?= =?us-ascii?Q?FTrfbfVgyvp8kQvSQMsv2aCligy3/GtOc3laqhx0xEy9mJgqoCKEg5q3U9CL?= =?us-ascii?Q?pUhDIL6fPjbogaMjJREYQZJEn99MgOy1WS4OW93gxPuGPTctxlapr7xLlcOw?= =?us-ascii?Q?rItdDZzUOlPlYs0FEAxWzRTR36WiSE0h7T6kOO2XX+DPv0RSPOe6xacx9mBo?= =?us-ascii?Q?2WGLNRs6/WDRuaOKMN+xIagk99boUvlahRnTiUlGkjG/Ei1Bgk2hadhXubY3?= =?us-ascii?Q?fEdwN6MgB4JWsZawVrzG0+cR5Q43TbNIJBkXI7NecWjfXMLh+Z97T1Vfoizb?= =?us-ascii?Q?rT6+4y1o0PC0LZWLcB7GNiCxXK8hf3hXIu55wsCf0KeqUMYEwims73hVH4O6?= =?us-ascii?Q?VOoAjIzEzu8Yhq9ZHifPGLT/7wFfAylqt2dcgs2b2/QFkWvC/TBhhmr+Vq4w?= =?us-ascii?Q?kU4k9XhIRnlpChUJTDxPW5lhEFxun5lfixzX/dEyVnoNmfu5qpbEC0Kec9vk?= =?us-ascii?Q?FTp9uLTzxkrsq34dAO/cQdgCpYgswyWh/DaXJ/0QKfEttlBN8p1HMHyVwirt?= =?us-ascii?Q?CavQhycW0H3WZP1uK6pN/a2lBGzpgFH+bGlhR3qMWPLgKvHG8hcXGnp+rNbn?= =?us-ascii?Q?MNAZd1D/FC9HHtFzitlvaai5uakDyLf9/m+SvrINyBoDB2QKoHPLtbyFBomo?= =?us-ascii?Q?BcCrLlmiadtV7LtLdt1whwtnDQBUhZUVhiWbAqqE0GYZCPdfO246/cRhTJ5/?= =?us-ascii?Q?gxFlkijdSDA8x4WLM+vFfbMiDHzuxiDE6EyN7Al9e0PnHpBBVAVCoHRpsAYh?= =?us-ascii?Q?ADgZ0yp+VsJdRONUMCxxk9Ky36AZrFLxDGNjC7uyDV3vjDmzwUUSHYlPFWmJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZXSbsuQYuIChbSEXReBfadTLHLagE+2UOYZqcVo0hXxK3uDVaVNcriJSkiAY?= =?us-ascii?Q?H8b6iSNZSnyzRaiNKF8VCHZYRJiAmAC58xs2JYQXf98LkPI1Y/N2a07wp2/Q?= =?us-ascii?Q?mz4EshrxqEjvOZ+GToBTRQ9QhSC1a393kjaLeidQH5XVz73Glq37OgOZYP/9?= =?us-ascii?Q?57duEBOqZ/pCNH+6gauuw9HsrAm2w4mCcoADXufdjIS6DncUqRfBvWPHNkII?= =?us-ascii?Q?jjPXpT1S5YI38C8UIQWAf0/FzknQdib5UlYZP7+I0fXgDAwH3uuLWHLKmR04?= =?us-ascii?Q?92UxL7yiSGp/7iY9/gBQFXSGef/TCLCaa2tYj6Gl1LD8APV19ccea4yU74o7?= =?us-ascii?Q?A7c=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fd69fb97-ddf3-43dc-3c84-08d9577db980 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2021 19:26:14.2621 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e741d71c-c6b6-47b0-803c-0f3b32b07556 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2Fza44OmhRUz+ZcFPYxXxKBBCYMyGc73AUSAt6Q7aYlwbrh4eB9txpYwq5B3n4Cb X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR02MB2218 X-OriginatorOrg: att.com X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: BE9C0FCDBCA1BC432683303DDBBBE4A7891ACF8C3B2CA5AF5DC9B176056E20402 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: aJX8n3DRzrZkwJZgYts5R60jWW1hlDpH X-Proofpoint-GUID: aJX8n3DRzrZkwJZgYts5R60jWW1hlDpH X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-04_06:2021-08-04, 2021-08-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2108040116 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IETF NomCom LLC Role Requirements Consultation X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:26:42 -0000 > As noted in our recent IASA2 retrospective (Requirement 34, discussion > item 1) [1][2], the IETF LLC Board is following through to initiate the > first of what we expect will be an annual process of seeking input on > the IETF LLC board role requirements that are sent to the IETF NomCom > each year. This consultation runs from 2 August to 15 August, 2021. >=20 > The current role requirements [3] have remained the same since the LLC > started and is based on both what appears in IASA2-related RFCs/BCPs as > well as typical non-profit board needs. >=20 > Please review the current role requirements [3] and let us know if you > suggest any changes. You can provide feedback either via GitHub [4] or > via email to admin-discuss@ietf.org. If you wish to comment, please do > so by end of day 15 August 2021. =20 Thanks to all in the LLC for trying to get this discussion started. Let me = see if I can fan the flames to get people to think and opine on this topic. I've looked at the GH issues and (consistent with discussions elsewhere tha= t there is a significant community of people who don't like doing discussio= ns on GH) there are precious few comments there. I'll try to see if people are willing to discuss on this list. On the question of LLC roles, I have a few thoughts. It's clear by looking at the current list of responsibilities (operations, = finances, fundraising, compliance) that different LLC Directors embody thes= e to different extents. The goal is to ensure these competencies exist on t= he LLC Board, but not necessarily all in one person. The members of the LLC= knows which competencies are most needed from a candidate for an open posi= tion, but this is not necessarily obvious to IETF community members. For th= e past few years, the LLC liaison provided hints to the community by listin= g competencies in priority order on the NomCom "Desired expertise" page. Bu= t the "priority order" part was subtle and easily not noticed, and most com= munity commenters don't see this. This is partially because "priority order= " only seems to be used for LLC positions. This can lead to members of the = community having very different expectations than what the LLC is envisioni= ng. It's sort of disturbing when the expectations of the community are out = of synch with the expectations of the LLC. One simple possibility (better t= han nothing) might be for the LLC to send admin-discuss an email with the p= riority order of expertise being posted on the NomCom pages, and ask if any= one has comments on the proposed priority order.=20 I also think there is a very important role that isn't currently included: = Having a broad IETF social network. There needs to be one or more people on= the LLC who have a good knowledge of and engagement with various communiti= es in IETF. There has been discussion in the past of the (not listed as a c= ompetency) need for people external to IETF. But no attention has been made= to making sure there exist people on the LLC who are good at channeling IE= TF communities. Finally, if there is a specific desire to have non-IETF people on the LLC (= with "non-IETF" as a perhaps unadvertised but expressed-to-IETF-NomCom-thro= ugh-other-means prioritized competency), the IETF NomCom should not be aske= d to appoint someone with this as a criterion. Getting IETF community input= is central to IETF NomCom processes. A non-IETF person, by definition, wil= l not be known to the IETF community at large nor to NomCom members. This r= emoves a very important feedback mechanism for such people. IETF NomCom is = best suited to assessing nominees known to the IETF community. Barbara > [1] https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/blob/main/draft-iasa2= -retrospective.md > [2] https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/2 > [3] https://github.com/ietf-llc/NomCom-Requirements/blob/main/Draft-2022-= NomCom-Requirements.md > [4] https://github.com/ietf-llc/NomCom-Requirements From nobody Wed Aug 4 12:46:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00933A00DB for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OmWtQPcGkdQb for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4549B3A00DC for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156896.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 174JfU0c031268 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:46:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=2afud+2VShVgyOAtonNVuYET9IVBWUL5rWHulmtdYPc=; b=OfJrRbAz2ew3WsMX8p9kLiAqEh+g24l0YCL6eSXfv7BNZ6sxtjTHp9QHsYEorWs4uYZt TOxK9dyjUbzM1YfNS9Un4ezuedF1YmAvMvL4CRe3qfpigBywr4R+CPjWysRYb8r1UK6N 6FpAcifKmN7ZjnyyUhP8JFTVFQCY+l595thPWqDz+Qt12UghQc/fwNQ+mv20FSTyyEkL bYLE/LuDDJhXnbbbfOyMeqjPkF0mk5Zvm4poa9sNfUAtwbMTgiUKviWOYoF96VSMADq0 NGTCJx53jVxP6mZ8wF4KE/FvuxENhz7MeyeI7CgKLSzeOSXFcLbATX9eMUH4yGfW7plA AA== Received: from copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a809mrhc6-2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:46:33 -0400 Received: from COPDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (147.191.124.156) by copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.132) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:46:23 -0600 Received: from COPDCEXEDGE01.cable.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) by COPDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (147.191.124.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:46:24 -0700 Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.58.174) by webmail.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:46:01 -0600 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by MN2PR11MB4045.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:135::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.21; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:45:57 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.026; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:45:55 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IASA2 Retrospective Reminder Thread-Index: AQHXiWlX1DWQITlYU0C6EuaOye68LQ== Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:45:55 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 805d172c-e096-4e1c-4505-08d957807994 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4045: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(136003)(346002)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(86362001)(122000001)(166002)(33656002)(4744005)(966005)(5660300002)(186003)(6506007)(66476007)(66556008)(66946007)(66446008)(76116006)(83380400001)(64756008)(478600001)(316002)(7116003)(8936002)(8676002)(2906002)(71200400001)(6916009)(6486002)(6512007)(38070700005)(38100700002)(2616005)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?SEpFNU1zaG5FSmpMT2RTV0VNSGJaaEx1dVVab0xBYjJib3FmN1A4TXltZ0Qx?= =?utf-8?B?cllkNkh3NWk5VjltcFRoSW9URzJQYVFXQ0tiRnNZTkxyUHd0MG00Uzkzdysz?= =?utf-8?B?eG5ERU1EYVVmTHFZcDZPUFlyQ2RFVkFVcy9PbEN1ZlpoY1U1RGNZSEhjKzdm?= =?utf-8?B?emM5YlZHcEt4eURyRFVQM0FhRWFXeUxqa0dydmJmT1ROSUlRS3VHSW5uKzVn?= =?utf-8?B?S0ZuWTR4MWZUeEpoMC9QK2oybWZva2VIUHNxbWwxemNOakVMMGdqTVhpQzZK?= =?utf-8?B?dFh1T2RxY2NjYTJoYnRKejByL3ltNmtkWFJua0M1YnlNeEtCL3BTVlFWK0lS?= =?utf-8?B?dHZvNXhVY3pHeXdFU3pBTVd4ZG1pck5kWXVEeWl1Q1loSXo4MFlhZmlJa3BS?= =?utf-8?B?b1JDZTZQZldsTXQ1WEF5V3oyK2tzZkNGcjRNYTVMaG1MWVBtMTIwUlZnanpw?= =?utf-8?B?VG1UbXFIS1c2WWpFWHd2T2kzYU45ZHRaTnB1eUxWdWg5WG9pMWI5MVBCdGkx?= =?utf-8?B?bWUrSURXME9ZY0h5b2QzZGZWaFpyU1F2N01tdGhwc1ZhOHlmY2JCSjRCZGgr?= =?utf-8?B?M0JpYURuUWdhclY5UVEvM3NFcmlwSno4QllMeVV3MGFoR0grS29TRHZwNHRp?= =?utf-8?B?YklIcEZYeVk1eE1QdExTd1pPWEs4Vm1lRUI0ZlJrQWhrVTBBNkkrSy9HLzU0?= =?utf-8?B?SS9Gczh6RWpBYkh4ZWNFYnRpbERMQytuTUNRU3Z4YmFKRmlwU2ZYTXJ4dTFj?= =?utf-8?B?eGlqRFpsaFlTeHlTb0lRbkN5bzFjSkwxZ2dQbFhnMTJqT0FvK3h0SmlLcFcx?= =?utf-8?B?QmlHZDFMRkdzeFRaeE5hWXcwQTEySmc5WmorYWc3aGdTazF3cVcwbG1CVXJp?= =?utf-8?B?Y2R2Tllvdlk5eDF4bVRzb0tBRUtnd1lsMGFkeEpsTVdsc0lEOXBpbnBPZ2FW?= =?utf-8?B?Mi9pUC9VbzBNYzdaU0VSUDhFMWQ4WHhGNVlYNnpDK05YeWQvZFYrMmFPMFBn?= =?utf-8?B?TFpSYy9lMlN2UnE1RGw1bnJvWkJabGFqalVkYXBRQitkSHlkMEYyazJaZUVl?= =?utf-8?B?TER3b2l6UkJVaUJQYXVVME9IYWxEc282WWwyaFd5dktIbGhKRGd6SXpFTk5D?= =?utf-8?B?WXlMMVhnT1lhN3dVRlplaUhZQXlxdUdMOWhRY01MT1poUU5ONHF3UExWMmRH?= =?utf-8?B?YzhwMnlXZnE2YWRGY0ltUVZYVGNYd3lEOU43VWt0d1JrRWY4MjZGMzFaOSt1?= =?utf-8?B?d2Y3ejlxeTljdXZjVzRsbDRXUWEvYlBCM2xwVXJoMjJJdXBBdHkvanVENTVs?= =?utf-8?B?TGhRMFVLU1NRNWFEQmVRM0UzWHNCQmI4WU1hTnFCV0NUN2FVQk5tV1Q0TjZM?= =?utf-8?B?bUlJeXRXcUlVMUdJaDhRL1kvUU51ZWVkUmMycVBhMHFEK3FKRGV2czZCNHpm?= =?utf-8?B?ZjBnNnFTOEV0MENpTVdJWXdEL3RMQll0a0ZJbC80MWpxR28wTzhoNVpqZkZQ?= =?utf-8?B?UHlsQlR5R3krMEhXZ2Y4NG80WW80c0NyOUl1RytWRDVaVVIzZHNWVGJ5Y1li?= =?utf-8?B?ZC9xcFlxSDZmZEh2Zk9lY1UzaWsyZENNVE5YTUs3a1JNdHBUV2QrMjJuRVdq?= =?utf-8?B?dnUxYXMzR0RtenBBU3Vtb1pCNDMrSW1ZTUFwNnJEYUVnd1FnNUMxSGozR01n?= =?utf-8?B?Q1VMa1NsNmdwS3BsTWJWWHRsSDlRNmhpSGpJVitVd3VaQ3NKaEtnQUVxMjB5?= =?utf-8?B?MXdLNDdFZHJGd3dsRHgxQU96eE04TjA0b0pCcVJPTWlKQld0cnZESWkrUE5m?= =?utf-8?B?YUkxcFYzck1tcndFUW1pK1pVNE9WT2drY0RMczljbkRQQmlQM1lkWjFvNDdn?= =?utf-8?B?NWVhWmlTRkVGUFFnVVdheksyRDhPdU9sbGNzMkV1aUQxaVE9PQ==?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=bPdKHo+usxco2kMYByTGY0ksseEuzZGqM8M9DjhbnvCznN/L9GuD2dqyzSKT5Gjn3t5fxZiLsIc4etR5Qwy6GgYeHkS0MoP64Fz8kNYCPt7LooUGlSZHxjg5mKZwQ7byTUyeEjrQCe5A5nku0rQX8Y9o82I63Rb9r2eYp8VI/pEJJ+fWmrk1ydKfPZBq4VXX3ZgIBOKlr9GN1p9YJRLDlZqOkBnvl9OkzCyatsORCDCIiVoVaOoqbL2C3dLqYM3SyaXzihCj94I86TGJK2FAN7ixRcjkgczQ6pG+TGkv+wR9qgzA6oHF02Sl80MWA78UdOBTAi9zT26w8E76i2w3QA== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=VBWebL0UYPC2svNQ20J77VDH7VMuQnqzlKHYKGlYAAw=; b=DSkKsoM8RW/DMJZLH9DgyBu2XGUaetjb9YURU8v6jcyPJT+95wxCG9m/UsVB+8F/0d0fFg7+kJ+vRFwx4+pPdzoKsBPu+BJxy1kx+xHnc1PyFX00P3xXlRyaf2j+g4eaDA8OU6tOsuh2zuTJRzxu7+8NqTK9S7ARoghrVBtOKPfVfnVzv8udLiG+hgOkFs4Y8XMLaoZTlihN7lORKZV2iym8EA4dh6AWkPfRXbnt0m07NTf+EtWozUeQV6mxE1E4w/Cvt/CNYR1O/cAHu6gD8gz3CglJM9rPFwJE7m8plLlG1wrLKLyJVh/RD/wgDqDyUfkwF2vLF4VxnJxknHsjwg== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 805d172c-e096-4e1c-4505-08d957807994 x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2021 19:45:55.5856 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: u/3l2rz30Bc1RpxBb6c+dBA3a04OH4BSHvxvmvw6sd73bjLoNHonKaA13/yFE8OdEC7yDoYwOE8kgVN+0VsI0ZI/4bPGEmUSp/p+g8qjcJ8= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB4045 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FB959B57CF8E4B9DAAF2BFB67ED96615cablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWA X-Proofpoint-GUID: XUdaglppSpqgdxRs-OngEXbdxIqIXeWY X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: XUdaglppSpqgdxRs-OngEXbdxIqIXeWY X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-04_06:2021-08-04, 2021-08-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Retrospective Reminder X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:46:41 -0000 --_000_FB959B57CF8E4B9DAAF2BFB67ED96615cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SnVzdCBhIHJlbWluZGVyIHRoYXQgdGhlIElBU0EyIHJldHJvc3BlY3RpdmUgaXMgb25nb2luZyBh bmQgdmVyeSBsaXR0bGUgZmVlZGJhY2sgaGFzIGJlZW4gc2hhcmVkLiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGh0dHBz Oi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlIGZvciBtb3JlIGluZm8g JiBmZWVsIGZyZWUgdG8gY29tbWVudCB2aWEgZW1haWwgb3IgYW5vdGhlciBvZmZlcmVkIG1lY2hh bmlzbS4NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQpKYXNvbg0KDQpQUyDigJMgSSB3aWxsIGJlIHBvc3Rpbmcgc29tZSBh ZGRpdGlvbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRvIHNwdXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCg== --_000_FB959B57CF8E4B9DAAF2BFB67ED96615cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBO ZXcgUm9tYW4gXChCb2R5IENTXCkiOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDIgMiAyIDIgMiA0O30N Ci8qIFN0eWxlIERlZmluaXRpb25zICovDQpwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYu TXNvTm9ybWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowaW47DQoJZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDsNCglmb250LWZhbWls eToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9DQphOmxpbmssIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe21z by1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjojMDU2M0MxOw0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1 bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTcNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwt Y29tcG9zZTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsNCgljb2xvcjp3aW5k b3d0ZXh0O30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0K CWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0K QHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3NpemU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAx LjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpkaXYuV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24x O30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9keSBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgbGluaz0iIzA1NjND MSIgdmxpbms9IiM5NTRGNzIiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZv bnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPkp1c3QgYSByZW1pbmRlciB0aGF0IHRoZSBJQVNBMiByZXRyb3NwZWN0 aXZlIGlzIG9uZ29pbmcgYW5kIHZlcnkgbGl0dGxlIGZlZWRiYWNrIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNoYXJlZC4g UGxlYXNlIHNlZQ0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtbGxjL0lBU0EyLVJl dHJvc3BlY3RpdmUiPmh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0 aXZlPC9hPiBmb3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvICZhbXA7IGZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBjb21tZW50IHZpYSBlbWFp bCBvciBhbm90aGVyIG9mZmVyZWQgbWVjaGFuaXNtLg0KPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPjxvOnA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxl PSJmb250LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0Ij5UaGFua3M8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFz cz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+SmFzb248bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1z aXplOjE0LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPlBTIOKAkyBJIHdpbGwgYmUgcG9z dGluZyBzb21lIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgbWVzc2FnZXMgdG8gc3B1ciBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLjxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_FB959B57CF8E4B9DAAF2BFB67ED96615cablecomcastcom_-- From nobody Wed Aug 4 12:55:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D103A0645 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SvncqYzPXmk for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.145.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A7D33A060A for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156892.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 174JqHTb004460 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:55:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=sSqtyY5GiM0dKjHGboQBelJ5xTmKO/3k+qMcj1nZ0jM=; b=cET6MTZLxHyGItliU/xBoylxVfVFJDfil77mSm0XoTgz7hhFc/vmEaQc5vbOL4dUE+xk gw/f/ongejN3z5KNJNkw0TltYwxVtbllpHm5WJSu1C8UW+KqsYv6DrusVymNoOOUXM9O mMV1qzvi+cHZnx5o1Am35aVYY4Ubtx3GiJlhAUAgzh0kazTvs466uEwrC6ZcUhaQ7ssB OKfqSV5nCV4ajKJBEdVbnum6WYhEnSu+mp3+D340gorOEoi6aw2kP87mlNL8T0Twmb3A vuuQTkyGh528f7QvrUVSOkMF42o7TTR+gaTZS+SonSbORr3NypC6rPbzGt7qik+WHT54 ow== Received: from pacdcexop01.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-wc-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.136]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a7atj92hn-2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:55:05 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXOP05.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.152) by PACDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:54:47 -0400 Received: from pacdcexedge02.cable.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) by PACDCEXOP05.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:54:47 -0400 Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.55.176) by webmail.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:54:47 -0400 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by BL1PR11MB5509.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:31f::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.21; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:54:45 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.026; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:54:45 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IASA2 Q: Contractors & Volunteers Thread-Index: AQHXiWqSIMkNteFM50mEgIaAnhU15w== Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:54:45 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 47f744d2-7767-4c95-5716-08d95781b56a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL1PR11MB5509: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(346002)(366004)(376002)(5660300002)(2906002)(2616005)(38070700005)(76116006)(558084003)(186003)(38100700002)(71200400001)(6506007)(66946007)(83380400001)(8676002)(122000001)(66446008)(66476007)(6486002)(66556008)(64756008)(166002)(86362001)(6916009)(966005)(478600001)(316002)(6512007)(8936002)(33656002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?cUNlb0pBNk1QcmZxVUtZZUdKVnVUa0gwSDRRbmo3SkUvUlY1d2FEclhRME9m?= =?utf-8?B?V2swMDE0eFc1cG01eFk4aEd6WmFNTmdsdWEyZDJacUUvNDU1cDJqZVBWS25l?= =?utf-8?B?UUk0YVNvNVR0QzBxWHJwa0pLSFBmcmFJVHl5dUVtZWUrQW4rNjBqeU5IN1Yr?= =?utf-8?B?OHhYTFJCR2hicWF4V0Z0MFJQYWtvdEhNZ24rNythVWNlN05oWE9MdmhhZ0NI?= =?utf-8?B?V2hSb3ZHYVI2MGlFK0VMaWZOdDJ2Yk9oc1ZBbU02bzJmYkY4alltckZhd2Zl?= =?utf-8?B?WlVYc1hhc0ZjMzh2VXJEU001elZzNnQ1QndFVUltbS9jdFVKK3B6dEc1RnJZ?= =?utf-8?B?aTNiUWRoNnJQSHJtQ2FKNEswaHBtZDQ2bGNPeWpTMU5IbE5tT29nRlFnMlNT?= =?utf-8?B?QW03Y2I0a2M0MTY3ZGxGMFd6QzBuUWo1MWprMFgyak8wVFQ5bDB5TEpFdXc4?= =?utf-8?B?WmlIdWF2bFVEOG9jSUUyOGhVdlVKaTNBRFFNdFFHS1hxUWhwYzNsaUtpNmtS?= =?utf-8?B?Qm02RXlSNGZRdFRwOUFDcVN4ZWVkbGNXMnp6U3FiZEJSMEJnYlRicVd4YWQ2?= =?utf-8?B?NHgyUVZhcU1SdVlnby9Sb2ZCUm1ESkxNU0VrMHQ4UW9hMFdsUGxFZjN4eFdS?= =?utf-8?B?eU5Ud3UzM1RNSkJtKy9MQmNLczJUS3JPOE53MFlHQk1uZUcyOFAxcURnMmRu?= =?utf-8?B?Wi9NdWo0ZjV2cDdwbEpqd3dZcjkzZ2xaSDB3ZlJBdHBXdGc5WHlZZldrRVlD?= =?utf-8?B?bFRHZmdaUVAwMTU4WG1zOWc1cFIzaHVtbDl4aFJqYzZxcTBoeTIvcUwwaG52?= =?utf-8?B?MUJ4Z2txSEV5RC9wQ0hHWCtYeEI1YlgzM0cwVEh0QjhGUzExaWEvMDZoV3cx?= =?utf-8?B?bXBOQ1Jic2RBKzZQSWE2Tjh3aWpSVmVEZTFwNUo5emRvWHAvbHNjZVU5VUQr?= =?utf-8?B?MjJsekZNZHJKaTdrUmpTdUR4amlCWkJXY2xkaXNnNnBwY0g3Q0ltNm56cXQy?= =?utf-8?B?bE9sWjcrM3Z2QVBBWmk0RHJVWFdFRGVLc3VwS0lPZWorZjZGamFHcXdtK054?= =?utf-8?B?SzRUbmVGL3pXU3Z2am1PTEJpb3BBVC9FaGttY24vQjEvSlZGME5hSVhqYlFz?= =?utf-8?B?NHdnTDJ1cW8wVlZnMTIwQ1ptMUdoL09MVjJmNGFZa2lsU0J2bjhNVE1kQ0hE?= =?utf-8?B?VnJZMWhsU1QyT0NPSFM1VHEvMWpBdmN1RWxTVzZKT3hUYkhodWdrN1d1S3Qy?= =?utf-8?B?MTJuMWpacGlPS0NjaVNBTjcwcjJHTmFEVFJkRE1xaVFqd0pGS2hyZHBJZmdt?= =?utf-8?B?OThpSUVqSEphOVd0U3JRTFlhTTJud2did3M1RTBVUXdlQXlSUGNNSkVlQ21z?= =?utf-8?B?VEpiTS9TRTFvbmpCRldGdjF4UWRXV0IxdWJIb3hoZEd3NDFKcjkra0t5RGlt?= =?utf-8?B?S2habEs2V00vaGFwQ0ttU2E4VXhKNFZ2TTBxdWFSRXhBcEZlYkZNcGFraWg4?= =?utf-8?B?cEZJNWtqa2xDS2dPOVBNVGhrRFVWWitVcWlXZGZnMnRDU2xjV3pKNERtU3Nn?= =?utf-8?B?RWFGeWo5emZIOW80M04zVXJ0ZlZCR2NiSjNQMmlFd3RsdHlpZVZ2SmRkMnIz?= =?utf-8?B?MnJPZXBQNzVHZ1dGNm9PMDBFYW82VHk2UTIwNStsRHRrWVp4NU9ZbE5tRlBt?= =?utf-8?B?K1N2U2dwd0JDUHNKTGE2dWlXOThZKzYyNVZXV2pCaTFOK0ZnQTBnV3dYNE13?= =?utf-8?B?OGN0bzkwSHRjMDVYTnlEZDd0NXhNRHhlNzN4N1IrZFl6bGRhV1ZidCs4OFk5?= =?utf-8?B?aytLRjF6Q0JNUkl6Qm95cXBoWVJRb2h1MWNNNFBsTm9tbnlQbzM3TVZxa2JT?= =?utf-8?B?bHVWaWcrNTdYQkxLQmZFS0lZOXl6MThWM2lNM1J6TGdxaWc9PQ==?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Urdz7t8HM/gwv4fvfSNj3gkPG5b+Xd0k1tH1w8E+Pjrjt2/UIjzoCXsgFZyHbTWyAOWiXxlr1Abt6go/wEYuNTOxkhuFekOO2khRF9XVhY5gxsaWCO4QJQmjPAgLXF8hcHTu4HCfnPvjEEJhtsLBdnulCDmuWIKr3JVBfjjmHH1qFql8msT+R97o8kcp2qAW4O5oMORr/bncE9HsQTTOkf1IClY1ZNEgnZbk/rU78GOQGnOoDmEfFCDhqizsoNJ0QaQLW4S6oRjFVuultOhGCg0PmTEhZ/D1z9hv1qji6C02u5YM5axa/aASgjgg2UINPF+w6T8saXw6Eq7Ehxn9Mw== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=syY0ryRMA01omCkaYKbmTKxBZHPHtKRKI7WH16Uta1w=; b=LeTfnjbfuz+ssVOg+m2yObYr0WeFd5B94tmiSxoqAsSgpcw0jwDW1Jq6laXFM1eTgLJAeseAeZS6UgFCPPzeq0SesB0wudBit9QfyH9AoIsjhbJvavAywxoL+eTm77Yv7lbFlt7yx7zJhH5UyGWb8r7hXUOWj08S4gbxtpcywkUkcTRQwYVz8F5rlxE0YXpCvQbkyleHgUgxc67z2hhCSZPxnoCNFzEbkWYnHBToSsyCFq74DMVUi35izTNdAEFjcswkWmSs2YRSSvs6y77ala93XgTKht0jHcwUUUYi8Uow15QjcyYcn43I3G2XJaivQ19zBw1ZCYYHmM0a/6wa2g== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 47f744d2-7767-4c95-5716-08d95781b56a x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2021 19:54:45.4519 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: PYGykeAC34iSqCGvw0ONFAMdBUYRfDC+N7VnVeRU4zD86y9KKeeyWAm5yknFxU77Owyc8gNXIJkZ4n9mC8mZp67fMHQ/9IR18iu1N+euwJ4= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: BL1PR11MB5509 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6D91CC80A174B578420C20C91758A63cablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWB X-Proofpoint-GUID: 8s2uySALYq5soakbBpAcz5OPxwfUU14E X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 8s2uySALYq5soakbBpAcz5OPxwfUU14E X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-04_06:2021-08-04, 2021-08-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: Contractors & Volunteers X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:11 -0000 --_000_E6D91CC80A174B578420C20C91758A63cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UXVlc3Rpb24gZHVyaW5nIGNvbW11bml0eSByZXZpZXcgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVu dCBkcmFmdCBkb2N1bWVudDoNCi0gQXJlIHRoZXJlIGFueSByZW1haW5pbmcgZ2FwcyBvciBpc3N1 ZXMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiByb2xlcywgcmVzcG9uc2liaWxpdGllcywg YW5kIGFjY291bnRhYmlsaXR5IGJldHdlZW4gY29udHJhY3RvcnMgYW5kIHZvbHVudGVlcnM/DQoN Ckphc29uDQoNClJlZjogRnJvbSBodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0 cm9zcGVjdGl2ZS9pc3N1ZXMvNA0KDQo= --_000_E6D91CC80A174B578420C20C91758A63cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <78FD39423B31F14B80909D2A24386CD8@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBO ZXcgUm9tYW4gXChCb2R5IENTXCkiOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDIgMiAyIDIgMiA0O30N Ci8qIFN0eWxlIERlZmluaXRpb25zICovDQpwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYu TXNvTm9ybWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowaW47DQoJZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDsNCglmb250LWZhbWls eToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9DQphOmxpbmssIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe21z by1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjojMDU2M0MxOw0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1 bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTcNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwt Y29tcG9zZTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsNCgljb2xvcjp3aW5k b3d0ZXh0O30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0K CWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0K QHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3NpemU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAx LjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpkaXYuV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24x O30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9keSBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgbGluaz0iIzA1NjND MSIgdmxpbms9IiM5NTRGNzIiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZv bnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQ7Y29sb3I6IzI0MjkyRTtiYWNrZ3JvdW5kOndoaXRlIj5RdWVzdGlvbiBk dXJpbmcgY29tbXVuaXR5IHJldmlldyBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGluIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0IGRv Y3VtZW50Og0KPGJyPg0KLSBBcmUgdGhlcmUgYW55IHJlbWFpbmluZyBnYXBzIG9yIGlzc3VlcyBy ZWxhdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9mIHJvbGVzLCByZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0aWVzLCBhbmQg YWNjb3VudGFiaWxpdHkgYmV0d2VlbiBjb250cmFjdG9ycyBhbmQgdm9sdW50ZWVycz8NCjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250 LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0O2NvbG9yOiMyNDI5MkU7YmFja2dyb3VuZDp3aGl0ZSI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8 L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQt c2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPkphc29uPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTQu MHB0Ij5SZWY6IEZyb20gPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtbGxjL0lBU0Ey LVJldHJvc3BlY3RpdmUvaXNzdWVzLzQiPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtbGxjL0lB U0EyLVJldHJvc3BlY3RpdmUvaXNzdWVzLzQ8L2E+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5i c3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_E6D91CC80A174B578420C20C91758A63cablecomcastcom_-- From nobody Wed Aug 4 12:55:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D7C3A064F for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ahQx3hFQJ_W for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 710D93A064A for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156895.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 174JpaXo009894 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:55:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=fF2t/NXIkHsyEGlZSeofVTzr47cNI4/ILScJyMypmnQ=; b=sO5peMeaMi4sivcIuF1l6lY5HrX9+8xi+Mbds1nb4xOBOCz7acKVmH+7Nvj/0hfPHTGy lN2M/zcAcrwjUUaVEDsaIN3O09uvKRY2QycZm+hy7CYv18HrfUVhHyzYNlct3G+r+CfJ PJ5LQTgrlWhediNSJmTxLO95eDiS+QAQgKKqKPZMSTFIgwiq21lA4oPHbxL3e7Lr5JGh qotS4N0wHYeOyIvnKnFp0gNqYlEdTz4LDx/dcglOweQ3i2iBdzWIqmSqv5VU3oknUS/U jKO0awi/9+IaVFi1YpeTmiWK9RCU7iRmx+5FL+0jE1UcfR865CGbh87ttoMDEfNeeDVs 8Q== Received: from copdcexc34.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a7v56av1a-7 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:55:46 -0400 Received: from copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.132) by copdcexc34.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.133) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:55:11 -0600 Received: from COPDCEXEDGE01.cable.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) by copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.132) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:55:10 -0600 Received: from NAM11-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.57.170) by webmail.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:55:08 -0600 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by BL1PR11MB5400.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:311::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.22; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:55:06 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.026; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:55:06 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IASA2 Q: Tech Work Prioritization Thread-Index: AQHXiWqfo5n9GhYiGEWr9lWt8jXrfA== Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:55:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b681da0d-6962-4442-4c06-08d95781c223 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL1PR11MB5400: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5516; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(366004)(376002)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(966005)(6916009)(8936002)(6512007)(316002)(478600001)(8676002)(186003)(66476007)(558084003)(66446008)(66946007)(66556008)(2906002)(6486002)(76116006)(38070700005)(64756008)(122000001)(38100700002)(86362001)(2616005)(33656002)(6506007)(71200400001)(5660300002)(166002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?anlwM1RpaFVQTGhOUlp2c1YwVzBBdjlEMDBPUGNxeHVTRENsYkc5aWhIQVJT?= =?utf-8?B?VkNGZHJEVnUzNXNlUGdwb3k1ZHZuUk1VL0NzZ3JFdlhDcnMwRmJxaVhkazdl?= =?utf-8?B?OXJVTDNUd2N6Q3ZmRzdScGJPOE1qdHhUenRXOGxMSzFKRDVueEk4MUxSL0gv?= =?utf-8?B?RGN4SmdpN1BzWFB0Uld0MUg1aE9YaDdLUHpQd21PSUdrRHB1Z2xoYVV1NE1p?= =?utf-8?B?RGRIOTRFNEwrZ2RzaFVzdG9wMmtJc2lYdlliVmRKMHJxcDBVMW9WYWRKUWVE?= =?utf-8?B?ZW5qTzJIODZkOHBHd05GcjdLNm5PTHFSb2FKSXROY1NVZVpaV2E0OWlWNGtC?= =?utf-8?B?WHc2aWNrRUs2aDNHWVAxcktFb21sbTZQODlMdmxSaHBEdnlqZnMrSDZNZ2R3?= =?utf-8?B?UlpPU2lSdGVPa1pTYndNNFRHbzRadllZYU5Ib0d4R2N3QVluRGNXYlRHOThN?= =?utf-8?B?QUZIeVNBNStCUzhISlhWaEkrcWNlYTMrL1JlMmhsQ1EwMFYzcWtpc1hhcFk4?= =?utf-8?B?bHAwVUlDQ0lWZUsvZHhxYUJFRmQ5bzF2WW9kTUpMMnJnWi9VQUdVUDJKcjVv?= =?utf-8?B?MmhZdmVSVXNxTWRCOSsxWXZDWk5rRGNxSjMrSk1ia2RzUnloZnFWejhZcDNt?= =?utf-8?B?ekREeHlTTjhtN1ZnRWY4bkVqTjhxVXpDbXJYQjFvN2JFTEhwdjRSaWtuVEg3?= =?utf-8?B?czNKZmtPMlZHVHkrWlZER2VMTHg1cjFJU3Bmb2NSRmlyT1ptNkhjY2w5NVhQ?= =?utf-8?B?aGVicjFkMVpwQVFCeUlwYjUrQjRtQTgxVUVOWlVyQ1YyR0V0bHl1SW5Kclhh?= =?utf-8?B?cTFGdVZKa1pjdTJSamNPVDU4cEN1RzZRb0ZZZFljTzJEakNaV0RVMVhMVE42?= =?utf-8?B?akk2ZzRXeHJTMTArZmlMQnhVQmhDV2t6SE5jSjB5OXVJaVZRMUNRTzJKNnoz?= =?utf-8?B?dnBpZDRTTkVqaXl6aEtncEdpLzRRQ2Y4bTJSZ0V6VFpkNXRKQ0N3TE9pTVBY?= =?utf-8?B?THpsMncxSlU5VVpLZWszc3lWVDZRcVB4ZE1xUlp2VXJNSFFBUk1pTEU4a0Vt?= =?utf-8?B?clU3Rzl1WkFHeVBYdXNnYmZmN0ZoM1gxclF6Z2h0SWZpYllWcHVad1RPOFp2?= =?utf-8?B?MEdhOXg5Q3YraW95R0FCZkQwUTVEMTRsaGZKeFdMb29ydnhxQXdrREFlK2Jl?= =?utf-8?B?YWlkckdLVjlJTXlXZ2VLcEl6OGl0WGdVUUxTRjNRM2xkVEVMQnhFTjN5dXZs?= =?utf-8?B?VG54djQ5OCt6NlNvbzMxWkFOaTcrdlJIdXo2U1VUN3o3YlljdUlaczQ0S05x?= =?utf-8?B?WjhSOXhWLzdyeXkzcFBlS1FaQXJKbDlVNlhCMzJvaTFSbC9NbGdVempyeWJl?= =?utf-8?B?Rm9ZbGZ2ZGN2ZSs2WGwyWnJTWlFPY0FuYWNlbEZlODI5ajAxRDFqRlRWZXk1?= =?utf-8?B?T0NscGdoVjBJMUd4bXBUMmY3cUk1WGRES1BCcjAzc3R5dnlQamQ2dWJIYk5l?= =?utf-8?B?azhuTFp1c0xqaWhRTDRpTXJzek42Ym5uWWh3U2NpYTJHZ3hheDlzTlY4Y2VB?= =?utf-8?B?Umx3NVZqWGk4QWg4TElVWDhtWFBHWUNWWGtURzhUNGpXSlJFMVNZT0tHa3dX?= =?utf-8?B?V3orU0tHeDZIcWFwRVFiSkVpV0g3aWlNRzUvR29ZbGpXWHE3Y3VjMFJLUUpW?= =?utf-8?B?d2wxZ0o5TlVKV3dlcnMwcEJkMFpYdjNId0ZEbzZMRUhzOUJZRjd3Tzh3Vk9x?= =?utf-8?B?cW9GOThuSTMzZXhEVkVZR1d0QTFPeDJyY28xRFhlVXc3WldxWUU4eW84QUFF?= =?utf-8?B?WGRGRlJJSVd2czVaRlFwRVRpbmFTOXFpRk5Pby9hVHdXaThQeWE1c3JJOGM1?= =?utf-8?B?MUQ3dnJHdlhRSUg5WUV3ZEI3c1dnTmh0aTJhRVZCQnRYb3c9PQ==?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=E8gVWwF7XKhehU1KdUa4C2ZcK5elH4S+bxu2m96Wg6CN7vC8hcDlbmDczhsP3I6noAqnONQYYPZMrTwkIXEghwbwFIkEs8BRS0B/o77aqwXbGzhDTA9w/21rhfQNbrrUXdTJExkAZP63OP38zhx1h8TQDMKy3LAjqVnueFiYp7HxxCJRgY1JYYFUSCcTrtrLzq12D50IB1oIMkamyPDY7hq8Q6UPX9pU0fOYMUJRmH/SW+HWKnAyYIKtfAIfiHKr6ye057dMimj51UJhV04i+HIy98y7gMdOP1aB3WBZqFNa6Jt3S2ACiz1/rCYFMa6Rwqae0WFmSArQxt3l8jpUnQ== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9100aJePjG1oY/Vllj7R6jLVgahqrVFgM6yzZIAv00A=; b=VkwpdoDa49N4XNq9t12783ACVIQhL7hm89x5G6+NPh7vpLBO8eMWhVFPjhuqgaNOnE1CY0WGNbhQDGRRQsclfku+orot1oLRz21yYpCpfEuqOEwS/fXCFrH1Qw8IXZLVwjaeDuchd1qAEZCli3Nc2ZuYFToFnqbejasGzSHbCG3uthNzm8oGwecdU44US2uJmf7RPjcEwN24R3vzBAaeZf1tiAf9yrKUXvEVXUkfS/5lf58hUMXuX7ApTwNfZ9fgOj2Ggx9M7LNpdeSaBqt7B+rMl0or2NeVnyPjPVq+w8DfTvdlv4opPoNe/oonl0BWdM1y5dFovBA+i+o2otyu6A== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: b681da0d-6962-4442-4c06-08d95781c223 x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2021 19:55:06.8666 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: FdNUdSsQQpYwpA8azvhBsPasFBYX1uvFm8OLzRz/F8Gj/x6dm/Vm+Eqo4TyZ9U6/Wkd73qqcT/eVp9AHzdZm/PuRvtPgfymC+Qp1hOwTjCw= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: BL1PR11MB5400 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A9536BF63E5C4A178F7894FD6DE316F8cablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWC X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: YF8ESipv5VzxPGS49SEcNt_sa-LXn_0s X-Proofpoint-GUID: YF8ESipv5VzxPGS49SEcNt_sa-LXn_0s X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-04_06:2021-08-04, 2021-08-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: Tech Work Prioritization X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:55:52 -0000 --_000_A9536BF63E5C4A178F7894FD6DE316F8cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UXVlc3Rpb24gZHVyaW5nIGNvbW11bml0eSByZXZpZXcgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVu dCBkcmFmdCBkb2N1bWVudDoNCi0gSG93IHNob3VsZCB0aGUgcHJvY2VzcyBvZiBwcmlvcml0aXpp bmcgbG9uZy10ZXJtIHRlY2huaWNhbCB3b3JrIGZ1bmN0aW9uIG9yIGJlIGltcHJvdmVkPw0KDQpK YXNvbg0KDQpSZWY6IEZyb20gaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtbGxjL0lBU0EyLVJldHJv c3BlY3RpdmUvaXNzdWVzLzQNCg0KDQo= --_000_A9536BF63E5C4A178F7894FD6DE316F8cablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBO ZXcgUm9tYW4gXChCb2R5IENTXCkiOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDIgMiAyIDIgMiA0O30N Ci8qIFN0eWxlIERlZmluaXRpb25zICovDQpwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYu TXNvTm9ybWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowaW47DQoJZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDsNCglmb250LWZhbWls eToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9DQphOmxpbmssIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe21z by1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjojMDU2M0MxOw0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1 bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTcNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwt Y29tcG9zZTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsNCgljb2xvcjp3aW5k b3d0ZXh0O30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0K CWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0K QHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3NpemU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAx LjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpkaXYuV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24x O30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9keSBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgbGluaz0iIzA1NjND MSIgdmxpbms9IiM5NTRGNzIiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNs YXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZv bnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQ7Y29sb3I6IzI0MjkyRTtiYWNrZ3JvdW5kOndoaXRlIj5RdWVzdGlvbiBk dXJpbmcgY29tbXVuaXR5IHJldmlldyBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGluIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0IGRv Y3VtZW50Og0KPGJyPg0KLSBIb3cgc2hvdWxkIHRoZSBwcm9jZXNzIG9mIHByaW9yaXRpemluZyBs b25nLXRlcm0gdGVjaG5pY2FsIHdvcmsgZnVuY3Rpb24gb3IgYmUgaW1wcm92ZWQ/PG86cD48L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxNC4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0Ij5KYXNvbjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFu PjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0 Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3Bh biBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+UmVmOiBGcm9tIDxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0 aHViLmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlL2lzc3Vlcy80Ij4NCmh0dHBzOi8v Z2l0aHViLmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlL2lzc3Vlcy80PC9hPjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250 LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNv Tm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_A9536BF63E5C4A178F7894FD6DE316F8cablecomcastcom_-- From nobody Wed Aug 4 13:00:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20BA3A0768 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EKMuQPzfhl4X for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26EBE3A0755 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156894.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 174JvYWI021257 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:00:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=yCtk+VTSzQlI9Evabj/EchZmpn96J3buOpQ6ZthXkF4=; b=ZrVkVqePYTZuVYohP9lLg0mQR6xXrHJ6npkKTIZ2cKvUVufzO8c3f/zAFo5r8CeJNLsq yEe3mSwoe2LaXjuvcNaruqdGxbdFlSI3OxNVWsVUC+vpkZtuVAujtPG8LzLZFs3S8YRW cEBnA9VesAtEQEP7krkU6X0vLRlSEDabw2Lg/ulkeven5hV6rXZYr4cDHjjIxMQujOAn A3EJueRVl068US76EcFjgK6oAwE9iOmxV8Vv47t7pyd71EEdVdm7j1Z1D8L+TOpITzt9 JOo723sDXSofJFvX1BUPdEZwHGaU/gH5WfsLVZOL9nFuBsE/+ygUDpz02JgYkaFxPEyR oQ== Received: from copdcexc36.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a7u29bgd7-16 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 16:00:04 -0400 Received: from COPDCEXC36.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.135) by COPDCEXC36.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:59:57 -0600 Received: from COPDCEXEDGE02.resource.comcast.net (76.96.35.199) by COPDCEXC36.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:59:57 -0600 Received: from NAM04-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.73.176) by webmail.comcast.com (76.96.35.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:59:49 -0700 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by BL1PR11MB5399.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:318::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.24; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:59:48 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.026; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:59:48 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IASA2 Q: IETF Trust Thread-Index: AQHXiWtHVv2azSjC9UWnj5g6V7hOOQ== Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 19:59:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3d1e8c62-9e92-4df3-48dc-08d9578269d5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL1PR11MB5399: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(346002)(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(366004)(6486002)(6916009)(8936002)(86362001)(33656002)(64756008)(166002)(2616005)(71200400001)(186003)(8676002)(66946007)(122000001)(66446008)(66556008)(478600001)(4743002)(66476007)(2906002)(316002)(6512007)(76116006)(38070700005)(38100700002)(6506007)(966005)(83380400001)(5660300002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?YjJ2Z04rS1gxMEpsRkY1U2tzY0hkTlBOa0ZHOTg1am5RRkdFdWZqdmIvWGhN?= =?utf-8?B?dWRRSGFFYU1YZ3pmbURESk1adFppT1pPRnU1WHZmR2QyTFVDQjM0RVFIV3dZ?= =?utf-8?B?UlJmZHN4cHN3NHVZRUtLdjlhbjQvUGF5T0ZkaUpRampQbGVES3BpUHd1Y1dj?= =?utf-8?B?Zi9LbmNmVFpHL0xvblVvdHlWOW5JOU42SkU3aS83UWtNWTdFVHFPMjhoeVoy?= =?utf-8?B?aU0yUU16dklISTRZVlBCdk9oSnFsanJoU09tcG1OeEtMdXMwWExYNXJyOTEv?= =?utf-8?B?NitRZG14cHZhWC9sR3FreWRObDIyUVh1OXNEY2YvaUlkekhKenVOVit6YnJm?= =?utf-8?B?eTVIK3ZobUUvYXNRSzZCL0lWZ2pVMzRpcEdjd0VGemlqMVdBRjlIaVpCK0t6?= =?utf-8?B?QjFEaFJlTFVzcnJNbTRtNVh6a1drME1SRGxmbmpselJoSWlxQzJBTG44OFVh?= =?utf-8?B?TGdjWlZZcW9NbVRsVkdyL2lpcFo4YjB2VVBmZXZRMTVLS3FZRUR1b2hXKzdM?= =?utf-8?B?SmhVTklBS3BvaEtnYnU2dEhWNTkxaG9hTFowNGhlL1NBOTBKZ1VIOURrd1Jm?= =?utf-8?B?WUlUdmVGSGN0Q0lKdEJTUTFpa1d5TmxNd3ZZdUhoUVBkL3FvVllLWjZndHpR?= =?utf-8?B?YkxJbTBTb3dGY21JNzJhS0pJOW5zaE5ES21CUHIzMjdkNkRpLysreDQ4U2Fw?= =?utf-8?B?U1lYVFJzV3Vpd3ZXY1ZpTzJLanhqdGFrajBNTURhb0YxZ09CSzluckhweENi?= =?utf-8?B?STdoOHFnWWdxR2pDL3E2aytsbU11cksza0ZHVDZVN3V1V1hsSDhRRjhhQkQ1?= =?utf-8?B?ZmFKaFpSTmRidlRrRmZkbVhRc0k4d04zak1DYnBqTnJzMGlpRG1rR0F6c3Ev?= =?utf-8?B?TFRiWllybVVQd1EzaEYzUkFnRWdGTnVWamtZcmlPTEdpRnlIaW5tcFdUVXdJ?= =?utf-8?B?QXBWNGw4Q3czNUhzZ0NkZUwreWY5SE9vMndtTmN5UzFzNFpSUHNYNE94Si9L?= =?utf-8?B?a1N1YkJDMzdSeUJHaEZ0aXhwUG4zc0dzV1daem1pZGhRVXdhMGNuZjFuL05n?= =?utf-8?B?ZDY5UndCSVNHTGJ6ZGxDT0RXUkZrSnJwT1RiZ0xpUTRkMFBsNUdhaEpmYmFq?= =?utf-8?B?WGp6dXNzSFNEWjV2bWhtc0xWWm5SMVRyTTRCckNER2NvanNJLy9nSVRyU2dD?= =?utf-8?B?YVlLa2VSaWVXTTZNd1RlUzVLb2JUb2F2RndXRVRMSGlDOFhQL05xeGQ1dzZw?= =?utf-8?B?cjRaU0E0YXhiQ25tNFBBckhjTnQ4WG1lcmFyU3lBSVVxQU5KdGR2eitudGFo?= =?utf-8?B?Tmp5YWcveTFxQmg4cTlHNk5NMnZjQzRIcWt4aXd0Z2R2WVAwUndOeEZ1UnRB?= =?utf-8?B?MEVQQ3dKdGhNMTZQTlJBOXVzMmNBRERIZkVGZ1lqak5LajB5N1hVOXFDbklR?= =?utf-8?B?T2lRNkI4WGxsa2Q4S0hIY2ExcE5RemtpdDdSREpRL2ZlcjIrWlJ4Ykd4K0J1?= =?utf-8?B?NnorcTlqQkhYYTJrTndReWpMOE9yV3RoZFhmVVVyVG1ZM0ZlYTRsYVFaelBL?= =?utf-8?B?RkRwRzZwMmpWNm9XOFFDais0QjBMWk1NQUVWT0hwbVJXaFU3YzlnUDV1MmVD?= =?utf-8?B?V2orR3h3SHZIeS9FU25WOWpYYzJaaDJMWjJBaXdDWXZXVmdMNS96dUN2VXRj?= =?utf-8?B?Z0V3cWdYNVVzampHbVBES3l6V0w4UE5XZE5sa3d1eWZtR3JnZVE4bnp4WlhS?= =?utf-8?B?L2VrU3ZkbzdpMmZYYm1rK2Q4OU10NUVGaStXSjF0Vk9TeXlmOFVIcGxhUzFm?= =?utf-8?B?WHRUN3FWU1dGanY0RUl0c1RsUU5Qc3gxM2hnZ2tXd3g0djBSQ0RRWkxmU0Ry?= =?utf-8?B?WkFPbUNqUUNMUGRsbE9wSy91Z2twWUZ4ZGg5SGM1UGlpNmc9PQ==?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Kq90huCLxmjOrhcVje8G5wCNqEzRB6ye6L1Q1IdJNEWigTiGBcXa0FHhZlrPIU/eYGRHQ1YF71g4cwELVG+lCSTmqibphEi9fBuwMzSY0EvDWNXevy/XSxRbe7gxBF4ybryRf3p8IUWnaBiePZ+eFyzlLjt5nFKbwwLiQF1emKKKGqFJ1UPHM6XMGZANYMvw6EbGBi07+nIGDs1ABgl7fzmy4PQ1U791UKtD82/Iaz2227B7ychEn/VSM50VfWMq/7Qz99nbBrVltKcAoS0EHGlHGUJckAiLHertHK8cuG0qmJxyLKMV56jwKXVI0R6ocImOQ4l66QIYaQd5Ph+G4A== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=T67iBCGWAvEG5RtoxAAmuUxbtZXPmhC3JKPaV9u8/LY=; b=UT+qMYvzGh3uQNSifitY78oSn2zNpPbyWmuoFcvoHibZ24c85N/FdCG626m6AOtY/37Bny2Skmumd7oDeJG998eDTqyb4zVBSna/oy6BDWFrlwRj2zMYaKG1nGoegM7QxUk7iUBdMf4m5PImmLJqmLXgeJ+2fB0V3+EnzBFxwBCgB6zsJAzuzl9q9TJW6x4UKz6+6hHpIp7gMWbHV4WkSB/S+GOVahuR84BS8vbk59Drg6BOGun7NifVzLM0RbTB+IytR9CzGXfCtwPQCsWpYZQlCKdhOyRFZ36zv0OeBONEngLztB4U9tbsK/reU8dyMBYhju+QhW8ZGwE79itHvQ== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 3d1e8c62-9e92-4df3-48dc-08d9578269d5 x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2021 19:59:48.1407 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: Oe5dxBe9K6bL7D8S9lKOV7bujkHC9SgujLfhrfTs9NDY1s4nxist1foqjtSPP7Ir6BDBY5dFM1izg6nIEK0PGlr0zNo7MUiGAHRjejFQrXk= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: BL1PR11MB5399 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5FCD9BF4743942E5A5FC2DA2258F9AFEcablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWT X-Proofpoint-GUID: rCQfn8O0AMSeWcltaqsqqpFy7mc7kSAQ X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: rCQfn8O0AMSeWcltaqsqqpFy7mc7kSAQ X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-04_06:2021-08-04, 2021-08-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 20:00:11 -0000 --_000_5FCD9BF4743942E5A5FC2DA2258F9AFEcablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UXVlc3Rpb246IFdoYXQgc2hvdWxkIHRoZSBuZXh0IHN0ZXBzIGJlIGhlcmU/DQoNCg0KDQpDb21t ZW50cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBkb2N1bWVudDogQmVmb3JlIElBU0EyLCB0aGUgc2FtZSBwZW9w bGUgd2VyZSBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBJQU9DIGFuZCB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gQSBzaWRlIGVm ZmVjdCBvZiB0aGUgSUFTQTIgY2hhbmdlIHdhcyB0aGF0IGRpZmZlcmVudCBwZW9wbGUgc2VydmUg aW4gdGhlIElFVEYgTExDIGFuZCBJRVRGIFRydXN0LCBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSBjcmVhdGluZyBzb21l IGRpc3RhbmNlIHdoZXJlIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBub25lIGJlZm9yZSB3aGlsZSBhbHNvIGJyaW5naW5n IHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQgbGVnYWwga25vd2xlZGdlICYgZXhwZXJp ZW5jZSBmb3IgdGhvc2UgcGVvcGxlIHNlcnZpbmcgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QuIEF0IHRoZSBzYW1l IHRpbWUsIHRoZSB1bnVzdWFsIHN0cnVjdHVyZSBvZiB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBtYWtlcyB0aG9z ZSB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHBlcnNvbmFsbHkgZmluYW5jaWFsbHkgbGlh YmxlIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gVGhpcyBoYXMgaGlzdG9yaWNhbGx5IGJlZW4gbWl0aWdh dGVkIGJ5IG9idGFpbmluZyBsaWFiaWxpdHkgaW5zdXJhbmNlIGZvciBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBJ RVRGIFRydXN0LCBidXQgaXQgaGFzIGluIHRoZSBwYXN0IGZldyB5ZWFycyBiZWNvbWUgaW1wb3Nz aWJsZSB0byBmdXJ0aGVyIGluY3JlYXNlIHRoYXQgaW5zdXJhbmNlLiBBcyBhIHJlc3VsdCBpdCBz ZWVtcyBiZW5lZmljaWFsIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBjb21tdW5pdHkgdG8gZXhwbG9yZSBwb3RlbnRp YWwgY2hhbmdlcyB0byB0aGUgbGVnYWwgc3RydWN0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiBUaGVy ZSBhcmUgYXQgbGVhc3QgdHdvIG1ham9yIG9wdGlvbnMgZm9yIGFjaGlldmluZyB0aGlzLCBpZiBu b3QgbW9yZS4gV2Ugc3VnZ2VzdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IGFsb25lIG9yIGluIHBhcnRu ZXJzaGlwIHdpdGggdGhlIElFVEYgTExDIHNob3VsZCBjb25kdWN0IGEgY29tbXVuaXR5IGNvbnN1 bHRhdGlvbiBjb25jZXJuaW5nIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUgYW5kIHBvdGVudGlhbCBmdXR1cmUgY2hhbmdl cyBpbiBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgZm9yIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmV0dGVy IHByb3RlY3QgdGhvc2UgZXhwZXJ0cyB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHdoaWxlIGFs c28gbWFpbnRhaW5pbmcgY2xvc2UgYWxpZ25tZW50IHdpdGggdGhlIElFVEYuDQoNClRoYW5rcywN Ckphc29uDQoNClJlZjogRnJvbSBodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0 cm9zcGVjdGl2ZS9pc3N1ZXMvNw0K --_000_5FCD9BF4743942E5A5FC2DA2258F9AFEcablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJTZWdvZSBV SSI7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAxMSA2IDQgMiAyIDIgMiAyIDQ7fQ0KQGZvbnQtZmFjZQ0KCXtmb250 LWZhbWlseToiVGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuIFwoQm9keSBDU1wpIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDExIDYg NCAyIDIgMiAyIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Ok1lbmxvOw0KCXBhbm9z ZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA5IDMgOCA0IDIgMiA0O30NCi8qIFN0eWxlIERlZmluaXRpb25zICovDQpwLk1z b05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYuTXNvTm9ybWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowaW47DQoJZm9u dC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9DQphOmxp bmssIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS1wcmlvcml0eTo5OTsNCgljb2xvcjoj MDU2M0MxOw0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjp1bmRlcmxpbmU7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTcN Cgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtY29tcG9zZTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJy aSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsNCgljb2xvcjp3aW5kb3d0ZXh0O30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21z by1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1p bHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0KQHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3NpemU6OC41 aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpkaXYuV29yZFNl Y3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24xO30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L2hlYWQ+DQo8Ym9k eSBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgbGluaz0iIzA1NjNDMSIgdmxpbms9IiM5NTRGNzIiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3Jk LXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9 Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1 b3Q7U2Vnb2UgVUkmcXVvdDssc2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+UXVlc3Rpb246DQo8L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZTo5LjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpNZW5sbztjb2xvcjojMjQyOTJFIj5XaGF0 IHNob3VsZCB0aGUgbmV4dCBzdGVwcyBiZSBoZXJlPzwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1z aXplOjExLjBwdCI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbjowaW47 YmFja2dyb3VuZDp3aGl0ZSI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1p bHk6JnF1b3Q7U2Vnb2UgVUkmcXVvdDssc2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3Nw YW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbjowaW47YmFja2dyb3VuZDp3aGl0ZSI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC41cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7U2Vnb2UgVUkmcXVvdDssc2Fu cy1zZXJpZjtjb2xvcjpibGFjayI+Q29tbWVudHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgZHJhZnQgZG9jdW1lbnQ6IEJl Zm9yZSBJQVNBMiwgdGhlIHNhbWUgcGVvcGxlIHdlcmUgbWVtYmVycyBvZiB0aGUgSUFPQyBhbmQg dGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QuIEEgc2lkZSBlZmZlY3Qgb2YgdGhlIElBU0EyIGNoYW5nZQ0KIHdhcyB0 aGF0IGRpZmZlcmVudCBwZW9wbGUgc2VydmUgaW4gdGhlIElFVEYgTExDIGFuZCBJRVRGIFRydXN0 LCBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSBjcmVhdGluZyBzb21lIGRpc3RhbmNlIHdoZXJlIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBub25l IGJlZm9yZSB3aGlsZSBhbHNvIGJyaW5naW5nIHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lhbGl6 ZWQgbGVnYWwga25vd2xlZGdlICZhbXA7IGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgZm9yIHRob3NlIHBlb3BsZSBzZXJ2 aW5nIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiBBdCB0aGUNCiBzYW1lIHRpbWUsIHRoZSB1bnVzdWFsIHN0cnVj dHVyZSBvZiB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBtYWtlcyB0aG9zZSB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIGluIHRoZSBJRVRG IFRydXN0IHBlcnNvbmFsbHkgZmluYW5jaWFsbHkgbGlhYmxlIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4g VGhpcyBoYXMgaGlzdG9yaWNhbGx5IGJlZW4gbWl0aWdhdGVkIGJ5IG9idGFpbmluZyBsaWFiaWxp dHkgaW5zdXJhbmNlIGZvciBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LCBidXQgaXQgaGFzIGlu DQogdGhlIHBhc3QgZmV3IHllYXJzIGJlY29tZSA8aT5pbXBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGZ1cnRoZXIgaW5j cmVhc2UgdGhhdCBpbnN1cmFuY2U8L2k+LiBBcyBhIHJlc3VsdCBpdCBzZWVtcyBiZW5lZmljaWFs IGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBjb21tdW5pdHkgdG8gZXhwbG9yZSBwb3RlbnRpYWwgY2hhbmdlcyB0byB0 aGUgbGVnYWwgc3RydWN0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgYXQgbGVhc3Qg dHdvIG1ham9yIG9wdGlvbnMgZm9yIGFjaGlldmluZw0KIHRoaXMsIGlmIG5vdCBtb3JlLiBXZSBz dWdnZXN0IHRoYXQgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgYWxvbmUgb3IgaW4gcGFydG5lcnNoaXAgd2l0aCB0 aGUgSUVURiBMTEMgc2hvdWxkIGNvbmR1Y3QgYSBjb21tdW5pdHkgY29uc3VsdGF0aW9uIGNvbmNl cm5pbmcgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSBhbmQgcG90ZW50aWFsIGZ1dHVyZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGluIGxlZ2FsIHN0 cnVjdHVyZSBmb3IgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZXR0ZXIgcHJvdGVjdCB0aG9z ZSBleHBlcnRzDQogdGhhdCBzZXJ2ZSB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCB3aGlsZSBhbHNvIG1haW50YWlu aW5nIGNsb3NlIGFsaWdubWVudCB3aXRoIHRoZSBJRVRGLjwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtTZWdvZSBVSSZxdW90OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlm Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0iYm94 LXNpemluZzogYm9yZGVyLWJveDtmb250LXZhcmlhbnQtbGlnYXR1cmVzOiBub3JtYWw7Zm9udC12 YXJpYW50LWNhcHM6IG5vcm1hbDtvcnBoYW5zOiAyO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7d2lkb3dzOiAy Oy13ZWJraXQtdGV4dC1zdHJva2Utd2lkdGg6IDBweDt0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb24tdGhpY2tuZXNz OiBpbml0aWFsO3RleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbi1zdHlsZTogaW5pdGlhbDt0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb24t Y29sb3I6IGluaXRpYWw7d29yZC1zcGFjaW5nOjBweCI+DQo8c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXpl OjE0LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1h bCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPlRoYW5rcyw8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bh bj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBw dCI+SmFzb248bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3Bh biBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPlJlZjog RnJvbSA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0cm9zcGVj dGl2ZS9pc3N1ZXMvNyI+DQpodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0cm9z cGVjdGl2ZS9pc3N1ZXMvNzwvYT4gPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jv ZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_5FCD9BF4743942E5A5FC2DA2258F9AFEcablecomcastcom_-- From nobody Wed Aug 4 13:15:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678F73A083C for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dnRPS3In_SZ1 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA78E3A0837 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 13:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17E6300C9C for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:15:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id vWV1e8T1b2Id for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D916E3004A7; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C9E9FB6-6E7A-478C-8A3A-F7560D02163C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:15:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" To: Jason Livingood References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 20:15:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C9E9FB6-6E7A-478C-8A3A-F7560D02163C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jason: As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to = the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of = any discussion that would change the legal structure. Russ > On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = wrote: >=20 > Question: What should the next steps be here? > =20 > Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were = members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 = change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, = potentially creating some distance where there was none before while = also bringing the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & = experience for those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, = the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the = IETF Trust personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has = historically been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members = of the IETF Trust, but it has in the past few years become impossible to = further increase that insurance. As a result it seems beneficial for the = IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure of = the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving this, = if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with = the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this = issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust = that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while = also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. > =20 > Thanks, > Jason > =20 > Ref: =46rom https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 = --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = --Apple-Mail=_9C9E9FB6-6E7A-478C-8A3A-F7560D02163C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Jason:

As = part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to the = IETF Trust.  This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of = any discussion that would change the legal structure.

Russ


On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = <Jason_Livingood=3D40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Question: What should the next steps be here?
 
Comments from = the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were members of the = IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 change was that = different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, potentially = creating some distance where there was none before while also bringing = the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & experience for = those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, the unusual = structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the IETF Trust = personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has historically = been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members of the IETF = Trust, but it has in the past few years become impossible to = further increase that insurance. As a result it seems beneficial for = the IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure = of the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving = this, if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in = partnership with the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation = concerning this issue and potential future changes in legal structure = for the IETF Trust that would better protect those experts that serve = the IETF Trust while also maintaining close alignment with the = IETF.
 
Thanks,
Jason
 
Ref: From https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7
-- admin-discuss mailing = list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_9C9E9FB6-6E7A-478C-8A3A-F7560D02163C-- From nobody Wed Aug 4 21:40:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D2F3A0799 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:40:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ipTw-eG0wzeX for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 905E13A0797 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 21:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id q2so5580509plr.11 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 21:40:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wZMT473r3je1RRh7vD83t4KWmRu8parZIwfqTlmLoUQ=; b=bQUes6rK6Hh5hzOaBCkkRPSyV64+rzdsgKiVlDEuEWxz3kl0Gd1+ZQGT64R7P0EsCn QiPQGAhYtFEcAhLilJiJXXqshpBOMK+dGGGCL6FmVF5AK+VfxwADUU7i6YdBB98QQtQO l0sRLD9aPgoyCF9ZsFepKkkKuCVfiBfQuR+esHECLGzHDOVblx09o/H5BZF4S96BZ4H7 T9vFsQ1Qcft1kw8b4PqVrUZLbxWStmEXn2cGxNDOeJvtam3Z76Nt5z6KJxB7mubBG93I k5IyVvGJuM2uKWv9L6aJkB/Hpe77XOlfM4MCTszrzElQEspCETQ3P15QYpmYD1zjHVzt dQdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wZMT473r3je1RRh7vD83t4KWmRu8parZIwfqTlmLoUQ=; b=hqC7krAIkDFCUSS8ThuzUP6jSKGeHNQ7JlljcuogwKJ11shQM54EGcPhaUFGITomrU /LBupdLPvYxhxFxReO43Ajud1PRrhebwLg0qYvQvNYRTmd9mDK1zoMijfXHT6bAoO/7P 5ZX4lVEmjIwM4xap1YRXibNk2kgaBIrbKEoP3w1gJurJhddajQDo/rDAuBpoT/qBFM43 TwLaoRrsQjubfvlHK1HbxVa4D5uvac3bdzbvAKIwRPJ2ZHAzuX1Trhx89Dl8wTKC3LT6 VfrHfL7n2DHXdaqND5u6TSn2sW07DBfMDyvn4wG7d8U+2cNw+INao3ZnPjhqrR9rn0Oa cL8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532BMllH3Qsu0RpPqGeSmlwv8so1vHUu4ps5cZWxNPHDfEDyRg3J fNt7gp9YAmDFe0MKMlV9nnSkGV3QZUAOCqB0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwzhdiJUv28C7PB84y5vj7kSoxy868hhLZgpt0tavT574wSmn5jQ09o8br6hB41wSnEsZZQ4g== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6701:: with SMTP id u1mr1997982pgf.138.1628138400470; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 21:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.100.8.98] ([58.84.227.247]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e12sm5496862pgv.51.2021.08.04.21.39.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Aug 2021 21:39:59 -0700 (PDT) To: Russ Housley , Jason Livingood Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:39:53 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 04:40:06 -0000 Russ, Logically that would apply to all the parties that transferred IPR to the=20 Trust. That would certainly include ISOC and CNRI as the initial Settlors=20 as well as any others since then (USC/ISI for example). It would be highly preferable not to go there. Since Article 8.2 "Distrib= utions Upon Dissolution" of the Trust Agreement does not require it, I do= n't see why the Trustees would be under any obligation to do this. Given Article 7.7 "Limitation on Trustee Liability", and not being an exp= ert on the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I'd like to understand m= uch better why we might need to change the structure of the Trust. The co= ncerns hinted at below were certainly not advised to the original Trustee= s (including me). If there was to be a restructure of the Trust I can guarantee that there = would be *very* strong opposition to tying the Trust Version 2 to the IET= F LLC in any way, shape or form. The Trust must retain 100% independence = of any other parties; that was the whole point of creating the Trust in t= he first place. (This is not an anti-LLC comment; it's just fundamental t= o the goal and legal "Purpose" of the Trust.) Regards Brian Carpenter On 05-Aug-21 08:15, Russ Housley wrote: > Jason: >=20 > As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to=20 the IETF Trust. =C2=A0This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part = of any discussion that would change the legal structure. >=20 > Russ >=20 >=20 >> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason > wrote: >> >> Question:=C2=A0What should the next steps be here? >> =C2=A0 >> Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were m= embers of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 change = was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, potential= ly creating some distance where there was none before while also bringing=20 the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & experience for those pe= ople serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, the unusual structure of t= he IETF Trust makes those that serve in the IETF Trust personally financi= ally liable for the IETF Trust. This has historically been mitigated by o= btaining liability insurance for members of the IETF Trust, but it has in=20 the past few years become=C2=A0/impossible to further increase that insur= ance/. As a result it seems beneficial for the IETF community to explore = potential changes to the legal structure of the IETF Trust. There are at = least two major options for achieving this, if not more. We suggest that = the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with >> the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this i= ssue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust t= hat would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while al= so maintaining close alignment with the IETF. >> =C2=A0 >> Thanks, >> Jason >> =C2=A0 >> Ref: From=C2=A0https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/= 7 >> --=C2=A0 >> admin-discuss mailing list >> admin-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 5 06:20:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6E33A1158 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FbhmXJAu7BOf for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E2713A1157 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156894.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 175DHgiY029703; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:20:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=XQYDDDIz9XAgBp1ehCSEnR8svXaou7cxBMSLUqsk9KM=; b=kshTxZ6XBd6bTD+7CoYEEiwzkJ3wLI6QrabnkHA5uofqTS8K4GpkEtMrOk6XQFQUMkBX 9Okda5UVG1JxwerzcM7hKJgc/eKKF1Df2Kx3BAylkkpnwfxpFHua2AV3x1I+AK/8cmSG iNyDoa8EE/7MDyrYNlE6Ly9m+6qDlgVuQOloVTGETInDmBQnhNBqjIkO3WQTzkNn7euq HGEVBi5EVwZIizjGLpISAXpjCtbTY1zJCRyzrTLtXUpi5dekTpVzXmrI5IIAFRfqQAgV 7aDvVVR38FMWeqUJdclmEn6J9eG/12hYWVy1ZjZWkBpGcIHEcibKUk5R1o96STnKYfFI 3A== Received: from copdcexop01.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a7u29gr63-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:20:10 -0400 Received: from COPDCEXOP03.cable.comcast.com (147.191.124.158) by COPDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (147.191.124.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:09 -0700 Received: from COPDCEXEDGE02.resource.comcast.net (76.96.35.199) by COPDCEXOP03.cable.comcast.com (147.191.124.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:09 -0700 Received: from NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.56.170) by webmail.comcast.com (76.96.35.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:20:08 -0700 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by MN2PR11MB3870.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:152::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4394.15; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:20:06 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.027; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:20:05 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Russ Housley CC: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust Thread-Index: AQHXifyaRcD5pBdBRkqIE/SNiNb54w== Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:20:04 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: vigilsec.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;vigilsec.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b42c0742-4461-4e41-7449-08d95813bd2d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB3870: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(396003)(376002)(366004)(346002)(39860400002)(4326008)(71200400001)(38070700005)(8676002)(38100700002)(86362001)(33656002)(83380400001)(6916009)(186003)(8936002)(6486002)(122000001)(966005)(166002)(2906002)(53546011)(6506007)(5660300002)(6512007)(316002)(66946007)(76116006)(2616005)(64756008)(478600001)(66556008)(66446008)(66476007)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?aEFjanpTb0pjZmJHdG5wSmFVWStpSVNHL2hQNjdzSEFSZ0lyYkRQak5RWTE2?= =?utf-8?B?VWZEUzhCdFk5WGZhZTFOTk1ER080dmljSHpwYzJWdERxUVZuVlcxdmNJZ1JQ?= =?utf-8?B?bllsU1M4OUx3MmFkeEhKVFNGVXZCc0hzam5xYVVwRnpyUHVHM1VBaGJPTWhR?= =?utf-8?B?TXlNQmhtYmVMaTdlUkROcjAwbkU3QjNCS2dsN0dxcGFVQnlRTU1oR2lGSC9N?= =?utf-8?B?ZjdOS20rUUJrR0ErTExOTDFTaW1pQzVZUWFSUWpVR0VIWFNZeW01WDh2UG5F?= =?utf-8?B?aU9NQk41T05KN0NsSDdaTTkrWWxZb3BScEphTXJOQm9VbDF5cndwRGxiUEtw?= =?utf-8?B?bk9RNEZNL2dyZTFYelM2RG9HUVU3K1RFZFMreSsraGlrbWY2Nngvd0p5bTgz?= =?utf-8?B?cEhLWkQ0ZWhwdEt5SlNGQmEveHRHU1QzVjFTZk8rckN5dFJFTm03Z3NIU2o3?= =?utf-8?B?N284ZjhwaEFPZmRtaGFNQk5naFdWaFhBNGV2aHU2eTJwZ3lZU29adUZyTXU2?= =?utf-8?B?djMxRjVwWEdIakNJRkg0U213cTh5eWNrZjhmZnRuWUJoZUI3d09LeFVLYmtt?= =?utf-8?B?b2cvNXBId0JkQXFFTWRzSGJmUXg3ZlJmSXJCUXpQVXhpek55YzB6Qk15Zjlx?= =?utf-8?B?R0E2M2gvaEw0WmU2aXhYL2xvQlJLZWlzdEIrQnJJWXFEeDRwdjVjWko1SXY1?= =?utf-8?B?TWx5OTk0MC9tTm1QTG1OS3F1eDZCbUd6TFo2T0tlS004SlRhWjhYSm1QV0RQ?= =?utf-8?B?bW1qMW1WR0FlbmxQWktVMWJiZDlQeEtMcW5NM01kT3JuM0FqWGVpNitKZzB5?= =?utf-8?B?SlJEZEdUOEhXeGwya3JVUlRTMW0xN1hhL3hOTlN6YjR1T2VNa1NlM0JGekZS?= =?utf-8?B?MzZMTG1Md3pxRkhYY1JKUkhoZmF2Rjk0akZ4VXBkaWpNUVNqeGJxQWhCWXdw?= =?utf-8?B?Y3dyYWZGbHpsOUV2MjRSd1IvUmE5d0QvUDl4SnpseUY0TWhWYll2UTVwY0Nq?= =?utf-8?B?dDY3TVBPZlQzMDM1OWNmSFFqb2c4bTJadmtzSDRML3hLY2lFa0M1QmdINUdx?= =?utf-8?B?MDFaMzArRGgrWFgwZHFaUU5mUkQvQzNWdWlWWU9oRVJDdmJOdTZuVWZMSnht?= =?utf-8?B?SmxaM1NDZzVZa3loN2JiTStNRGMzMFNlcTAwVlg5akNLenBCUVRKZzNDUlh4?= =?utf-8?B?NTFHNEhnNVdOeWoxQmQ1Z3JET2RabjhBeit5NkNOdlBGZGFsNmlMN3hJTHVQ?= =?utf-8?B?STMzTS9Td2pBL2FYYWd6N2lJMW0reDZxMEtwL3FkQk5ob0pJUUdsMExpTk9p?= =?utf-8?B?RDY1emlmMzVpb3hsaUpmYUtFR0FLblY3M0ptODBKdGRoRVVCeTcvZElLSUhP?= =?utf-8?B?NDRhaEt2RjFnT3lUd25hNms1My8zc2RuZHNENEhVbHpUaWJmUXR5UlV4RDA0?= =?utf-8?B?MFd2L1FVMnJsdGhTQUpHWWF3czNMY2ptYzdPYmx0ZlZJNWtYY2hodlM5TUdj?= =?utf-8?B?TXpPdmhselAzQ1RFdUxXa0VkL0NzcHZIQWN0WWpZZTBJYXhabmtiR1lSdDVI?= =?utf-8?B?aFZmTWVoMGVLUmhyK3BzT01yT3N0cmkyUitqUjhZSHAvbjVlblQ3WHEzbnN3?= =?utf-8?B?ZmIrYzA3MmdJa1I2WXg0QWhtTjg3dlY5UEdIUEZhd1BTdmFGUVYxZHRBWlMy?= =?utf-8?B?RlFKTFhLMmVOMEwxc2RuZ1cxSXJvclMwd0RDOElCVVFyaXpUbnVhRVJvRUdj?= =?utf-8?B?NUh3UnlvZXRnYVUzeUw5ekFtK2JOTkxmNmJUamsyVTBEamMrZkdCVEU0QVBn?= =?utf-8?B?cngzUWpsSWZobFpGUjFkWitVZWdPeVE4V3hmdDExK0R2MTUybTEwMk43Unpo?= =?utf-8?Q?CO9TtsaL5v+8U?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=j4W+xR7qm+z7XYkmUH5pCohodVSCT7pQVi04xYHx9DAaU4oRmiCSKqs1fv6MihXnXNMv7thc/2Qs5SB9/GyHdz+xLV79tC9GubkjwGQPzaGU0KTefUQnxGponU/4F+bEB4L0vOsFbwKwapxGXajjmTo217bQ5WWhjP7EyX5vTYbN9uKBZw+oLXN5vHgGEJKgryLhoVzJIvxpKg6TRuxvtdJ65Y7afj6rFteEus2TZqk0bh5C4qw0dRAqIx8oqTvOQahu3Kj7/3vVpVEnskBzjpiFuIsvn8ERnij4aQzEC/scpeRimCtil9bWMLncyXG5Gxu9d0OZbtPLV2toO6KUyQ== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=z5/bj1l+hq9H4+NdGAyVb5eekepazz3PP6aZ4THTgwo=; b=VbzSVM0JT4wXXo2LB55wF6UXSdmodAath+cgaUclUZ+HDFFWHMbPfvFIwuwU+sLVmAjQE6ng5T12MAxYbscE1TT8bnbDIHREQuZ7/GiIz7oZ+2EYhqZDXtYLVZxmegJbe7BpqmyOMbbmzttwq7WFBaC9sXFL+X7v8BNxvIiB24YXndn+MfsWHPl+FZtEBOlsofqdF1hqW6VG7QCtlH1BI01kRDfiZYD5tetbqpVGxWfPba6W++Js3AXae7rJWOtGxXV2Li5FxwMO/a6CvmQ781Uxhp18OywoXjZAuzxmX3sRairJlG1RQX1JhsJq/C+DodrGAgL5ZyUPwyN9/Ew3SA== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: b42c0742-4461-4e41-7449-08d95813bd2d x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Aug 2021 13:20:04.8752 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: UAAb7QFLhcfpJORtpGwvAUPzbp0xTVLLK8juFIqS83wBd+PO6XKvfazIWyNZbwzzDFw/5H0REMmoYKXVlBqChs914hj5L+veA0NI/d428Gw= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB3870 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AF67177C7F0E42FF802991FE4B81B94Dcablecomcastcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWA X-Proofpoint-GUID: uPU5jO3AU8K8ZGN4XslREvY5_H-GdELe X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: uPU5jO3AU8K8ZGN4XslREvY5_H-GdELe X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-05_04:2021-08-05, 2021-08-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 13:20:16 -0000 --_000_AF67177C7F0E42FF802991FE4B81B94Dcablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZmVlZGJhY2sgYW5kIDEwMCUgYWdyZWUhDQoNCldvdWxkIHlvdSBwcmVm ZXIgdGhhdCB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBsZWFkIHRoaXMgY29uc3VsdGF0aW9uIGFsb25lIG9yIGlu IHBhcnRuZXJzaGlwIHdpdGggdGhlIExMQyBvciB0aGF0IHRoZSBMTEMgbGVhZCBpdD8gT2J2aW91 c2x5IHBhcnQgb2YgYW55IGNvbnN1bHRhdGlvbiB3b3VsZCBiZSB0byBleHBsYWluIHRoZSDigJhw cm9ibGVt4oCZIGFuZCBzaGFyZSBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIGlzc3VlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgc3VyZmFjZWQu IChNeSBwZXJzb25hbCB2aWV3IGlzIHRoYXQgaXTigJlkIGJlIGJlc3QgZm9yIHRoZSBUcnVzdCB0 byBiZSB0aGUgc29sZSBsZWFkIGhlcmUuKQ0KDQpKTA0KDQpGcm9tOiBSdXNzIEhvdXNsZXkgPGhv dXNsZXlAdmlnaWxzZWMuY29tPg0KRGF0ZTogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgNCwgMjAyMSBhdCAx NjoxNQ0KVG86ICJMaXZpbmdvb2QsIEphc29uIiA8SmFzb25fTGl2aW5nb29kQGNhYmxlLmNvbWNh c3QuY29tPg0KQ2M6ICJhZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzQGlldGYub3JnIiA8YWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRm Lm9yZz4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtFWFRFUk5BTF0gUmU6IFthZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzXSBJQVNBMiBROiBJ RVRGIFRydXN0DQoNCkphc29uOg0KDQpBcyBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBJQU5BIFRyYW5zaXRpb24sIHRo ZSBJQU5BLXJlbGF0ZWQgSVBSIHdhcyB0cmFuc2ZlcnJlZCB0byB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gIFRo aXMgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBJQ0FOTiBhbmQgdGhlIFJJUnMgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBwYXJ0IG9mIGFueSBk aXNjdXNzaW9uIHRoYXQgd291bGQgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUuDQoNClJ1c3MN Cg0KDQoNCk9uIEF1ZyA0LCAyMDIxLCBhdCAzOjU5IFBNLCBMaXZpbmdvb2QsIEphc29uIDxKYXNv bl9MaXZpbmdvb2Q9NDBjb21jYXN0LmNvbUBkbWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86SmFzb25fTGl2 aW5nb29kPTQwY29tY2FzdC5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KUXVlc3Rpb246 IFdoYXQgc2hvdWxkIHRoZSBuZXh0IHN0ZXBzIGJlIGhlcmU/DQoNCkNvbW1lbnRzIGZyb20gdGhl IGRyYWZ0IGRvY3VtZW50OiBCZWZvcmUgSUFTQTIsIHRoZSBzYW1lIHBlb3BsZSB3ZXJlIG1lbWJl cnMgb2YgdGhlIElBT0MgYW5kIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiBBIHNpZGUgZWZmZWN0IG9mIHRoZSBJ QVNBMiBjaGFuZ2Ugd2FzIHRoYXQgZGlmZmVyZW50IHBlb3BsZSBzZXJ2ZSBpbiB0aGUgSUVURiBM TEMgYW5kIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QsIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IGNyZWF0aW5nIHNvbWUgZGlzdGFuY2Ugd2hl cmUgdGhlcmUgd2FzIG5vbmUgYmVmb3JlIHdoaWxlIGFsc28gYnJpbmdpbmcgdGhlIGJlbmVmaXQg b2YgbW9yZSBzcGVjaWFsaXplZCBsZWdhbCBrbm93bGVkZ2UgJiBleHBlcmllbmNlIGZvciB0aG9z ZSBwZW9wbGUgc2VydmluZyB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gQXQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZSwgdGhlIHVu dXN1YWwgc3RydWN0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IG1ha2VzIHRob3NlIHRoYXQgc2VydmUg aW4gdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgcGVyc29uYWxseSBmaW5hbmNpYWxseSBsaWFibGUgZm9yIHRoZSBJ RVRGIFRydXN0LiBUaGlzIGhhcyBoaXN0b3JpY2FsbHkgYmVlbiBtaXRpZ2F0ZWQgYnkgb2J0YWlu aW5nIGxpYWJpbGl0eSBpbnN1cmFuY2UgZm9yIG1lbWJlcnMgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QsIGJ1 dCBpdCBoYXMgaW4gdGhlIHBhc3QgZmV3IHllYXJzIGJlY29tZSBpbXBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGZ1cnRo ZXIgaW5jcmVhc2UgdGhhdCBpbnN1cmFuY2UuIEFzIGEgcmVzdWx0IGl0IHNlZW1zIGJlbmVmaWNp YWwgZm9yIHRoZSBJRVRGIGNvbW11bml0eSB0byBleHBsb3JlIHBvdGVudGlhbCBjaGFuZ2VzIHRv IHRoZSBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QuIFRoZXJlIGFyZSBhdCBsZWFz dCB0d28gbWFqb3Igb3B0aW9ucyBmb3IgYWNoaWV2aW5nIHRoaXMsIGlmIG5vdCBtb3JlLiBXZSBz dWdnZXN0IHRoYXQgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgYWxvbmUgb3IgaW4gcGFydG5lcnNoaXAgd2l0aCB0 aGUgSUVURiBMTEMgc2hvdWxkIGNvbmR1Y3QgYSBjb21tdW5pdHkgY29uc3VsdGF0aW9uIGNvbmNl cm5pbmcgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSBhbmQgcG90ZW50aWFsIGZ1dHVyZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGluIGxlZ2FsIHN0 cnVjdHVyZSBmb3IgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZXR0ZXIgcHJvdGVjdCB0aG9z ZSBleHBlcnRzIHRoYXQgc2VydmUgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3Qgd2hpbGUgYWxzbyBtYWludGFpbmlu ZyBjbG9zZSBhbGlnbm1lbnQgd2l0aCB0aGUgSUVURi4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KSmFzb24NCg0KUmVm OiBGcm9tIGh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlL2lz c3Vlcy83PGh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5jb20vdjMvX19odHRwczovZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9pZXRm LWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlL2lzc3Vlcy83X187ISFDUWwzbWNIWDJBIVQ1Y2J1dlVf NTl2QlIybjR1Zm9hSnE4Rm52eGJGME9vSFhiM015TldwRktvTFZnYmlnOXBYckw2M1hscXpCSWJf Q09pQTVlQyQ+DQotLQ0KYWRtaW4tZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCmFkbWluLWRpc2N1c3NA aWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOmFkbWluLWRpc2N1c3NAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FkbWluLWRpc2N1c3M8aHR0cHM6Ly91cmxkZWZlbnNlLmNv bS92My9fX2h0dHBzOi93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNz X187ISFDUWwzbWNIWDJBIVQ1Y2J1dlVfNTl2QlIybjR1Zm9hSnE4Rm52eGJGME9vSFhiM015Tldw RktvTFZnYmlnOXBYckw2M1hscXpCSWJfSWlhdU03XyQ+DQoNCg== --_000_AF67177C7F0E42FF802991FE4B81B94Dcablecomcastcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <2AC5DEFB5929744F9E6F2C5AA0DACBBA@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2E7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MCAwIDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwIDAg MDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJDYW1icmlhIE1hdGgiOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0x OjIgNCA1IDMgNSA0IDYgMyAyIDQ7fQ0KQGZvbnQtZmFjZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseTpDYWxpYnJp Ow0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTUgNSAyIDIgMiA0IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6IlNlZ29lIFVJIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDExIDYgNCAyIDIgMiAyIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9u dC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4gXChCb2R5IENTXCkiOw0KCXBh bm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDIgMiAyIDIgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 TWVubG87DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAxMSA2IDkgMyA4IDQgMiAyIDQ7fQ0KLyogU3R5bGUgRGVmaW5p dGlvbnMgKi8NCnAuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBsaS5Nc29Ob3JtYWwsIGRpdi5Nc29Ob3JtYWwNCgl7bWFy Z2luOjBpbjsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTEuMHB0Ow0KCWZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJDYWxpYnJpIixzYW5z LXNlcmlmO30NCmE6bGluaywgc3Bhbi5Nc29IeXBlcmxpbmsNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXByaW9yaXR5 Ojk5Ow0KCWNvbG9yOmJsdWU7DQoJdGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9uOnVuZGVybGluZTt9DQpzcGFuLmFw cGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZQ0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtbmFtZTphcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3Bh Y2U7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTkNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtcmVwbHk7 DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7DQoJY29sb3I6d2luZG93dGV4dDt9 DQouTXNvQ2hwRGVmYXVsdA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtdHlwZTpleHBvcnQtb25seTsNCglmb250LXNp emU6MTAuMHB0O30NCkBwYWdlIFdvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtzaXplOjguNWluIDExLjBpbjsNCglt YXJnaW46MS4waW4gMS4waW4gMS4waW4gMS4waW47fQ0KZGl2LldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtwYWdl OldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMTt9DQotLT48L3N0eWxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJvZHkgbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMi IGxpbms9ImJsdWUiIHZsaW5rPSJwdXJwbGUiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZDst d2Via2l0LW5ic3AtbW9kZTogc3BhY2U7bGluZS1icmVhazphZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZSI+DQo8 ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPlRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGZlZWRiYWNrIGFuZCAxMDAlIGFn cmVlITxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0 eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTQuMHB0Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBj bGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+V291bGQgeW91 IHByZWZlciB0aGF0IHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IGxlYWQgdGhpcyBjb25zdWx0YXRpb24gYWxvbmUg b3IgaW4gcGFydG5lcnNoaXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgTExDIG9yIHRoYXQgdGhlIExMQyBsZWFkIGl0PyBP YnZpb3VzbHkgcGFydCBvZiBhbnkgY29uc3VsdGF0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGJlIHRvIGV4cGxhaW4gdGhl IOKAmHByb2JsZW3igJkgYW5kIHNoYXJlIGFsbA0KIG9mIHRoZSBpc3N1ZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIHN1 cmZhY2VkLiAoTXkgcGVyc29uYWwgdmlldyBpcyB0aGF0IGl04oCZZCBiZSBiZXN0IGZvciB0aGUg VHJ1c3QgdG8gYmUgdGhlIHNvbGUgbGVhZCBoZXJlLik8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8 cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+PG86cD4m bmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPkpMPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1z b05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJvcmRlcjpub25lO2JvcmRlci10b3A6c29saWQgI0I1 QzRERiAxLjBwdDtwYWRkaW5nOjMuMHB0IDBpbiAwaW4gMGluIj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPjxiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2NvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj5Gcm9tOiA8 L3NwYW4+PC9iPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2NvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj5SdXNz IEhvdXNsZXkgJmx0O2hvdXNsZXlAdmlnaWxzZWMuY29tJmd0Ozxicj4NCjxiPkRhdGU6IDwvYj5X ZWRuZXNkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCA0LCAyMDIxIGF0IDE2OjE1PGJyPg0KPGI+VG86IDwvYj4mcXVvdDtM aXZpbmdvb2QsIEphc29uJnF1b3Q7ICZsdDtKYXNvbl9MaXZpbmdvb2RAY2FibGUuY29tY2FzdC5j b20mZ3Q7PGJyPg0KPGI+Q2M6IDwvYj4mcXVvdDthZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzQGlldGYub3JnJnF1b3Q7 ICZsdDthZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzQGlldGYub3JnJmd0Ozxicj4NCjxiPlN1YmplY3Q6IDwvYj5bRVhU RVJOQUxdIFJlOiBbYWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc10gSUFTQTIgUTogSUVURiBUcnVzdDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5i c3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5KYXNvbjo8bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvcD4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwv cD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPkFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIElB TkEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbiwgdGhlIElBTkEtcmVsYXRlZCBJUFIgd2FzIHRyYW5zZmVycmVkIHRvIHRo ZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiAmbmJzcDtUaGlzIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgSUNBTk4gYW5kIHRoZSBSSVJzIG5l ZWQgdG8gYmUgcGFydCBvZiBhbnkgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgbGVn YWwgc3RydWN0dXJlLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1z b05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0i TXNvTm9ybWFsIj5SdXNzPG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0i TXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJn aW4tdG9wOjUuMHB0O21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206NS4wcHQiPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPk9uIEF1ZyA0LCAyMDIxLCBhdCAzOjU5IFBNLCBMaXZpbmdvb2QsIEphc29uICZsdDs8 YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86SmFzb25fTGl2aW5nb29kPTQwY29tY2FzdC5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0Zi5v cmciPkphc29uX0xpdmluZ29vZD00MGNvbWNhc3QuY29tQGRtYXJjLmlldGYub3JnPC9hPiZndDsg d3JvdGU6PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3Bh biBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtTZWdvZSBVSSZxdW90 OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj5RdWVzdGlvbjo8c3BhbiBjbGFzcz0iYXBwbGUtY29udmVydGVkLXNwYWNl Ij4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+PC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6OS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6TWVubG87Y29sb3I6IzI0MjkyRSI+V2hhdCBzaG91bGQgdGhlIG5leHQgc3RlcHMgYmUg aGVyZT88L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQiPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9z cGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNr Z3JvdW5kOndoaXRlIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTom cXVvdDtTZWdvZSBVSSZxdW90OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+ PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZTo5LjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2EiPjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0 eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kOndoaXRlIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjVwdDtmb250 LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtTZWdvZSBVSSZxdW90OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj5Db21t ZW50cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBkb2N1bWVudDogQmVmb3JlIElBU0EyLCB0aGUgc2FtZSBwZW9w bGUgd2VyZSBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBJQU9DIGFuZCB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gQSBzaWRlIGVm ZmVjdCBvZiB0aGUgSUFTQTINCiBjaGFuZ2Ugd2FzIHRoYXQgZGlmZmVyZW50IHBlb3BsZSBzZXJ2 ZSBpbiB0aGUgSUVURiBMTEMgYW5kIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QsIHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IGNyZWF0aW5nIHNv bWUgZGlzdGFuY2Ugd2hlcmUgdGhlcmUgd2FzIG5vbmUgYmVmb3JlIHdoaWxlIGFsc28gYnJpbmdp bmcgdGhlIGJlbmVmaXQgb2YgbW9yZSBzcGVjaWFsaXplZCBsZWdhbCBrbm93bGVkZ2UgJmFtcDsg ZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBmb3IgdGhvc2UgcGVvcGxlIHNlcnZpbmcgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QuDQogQXQg dGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZSwgdGhlIHVudXN1YWwgc3RydWN0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IG1h a2VzIHRob3NlIHRoYXQgc2VydmUgaW4gdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QgcGVyc29uYWxseSBmaW5hbmNp YWxseSBsaWFibGUgZm9yIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LiBUaGlzIGhhcyBoaXN0b3JpY2FsbHkgYmVl biBtaXRpZ2F0ZWQgYnkgb2J0YWluaW5nIGxpYWJpbGl0eSBpbnN1cmFuY2UgZm9yIG1lbWJlcnMg b2YgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1c3QsIGJ1dCBpdA0KIGhhcyBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdCBmZXcgeWVhcnMgYmVj b21lPHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxpPmlt cG9zc2libGUgdG8gZnVydGhlciBpbmNyZWFzZSB0aGF0IGluc3VyYW5jZTwvaT4uIEFzIGEgcmVz dWx0IGl0IHNlZW1zIGJlbmVmaWNpYWwgZm9yIHRoZSBJRVRGIGNvbW11bml0eSB0byBleHBsb3Jl IHBvdGVudGlhbCBjaGFuZ2VzIHRvIHRoZSBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgVHJ1 c3QuDQogVGhlcmUgYXJlIGF0IGxlYXN0IHR3byBtYWpvciBvcHRpb25zIGZvciBhY2hpZXZpbmcg dGhpcywgaWYgbm90IG1vcmUuIFdlIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBhbG9uZSBv ciBpbiBwYXJ0bmVyc2hpcCB3aXRoIHRoZSBJRVRGIExMQyBzaG91bGQgY29uZHVjdCBhIGNvbW11 bml0eSBjb25zdWx0YXRpb24gY29uY2VybmluZyB0aGlzIGlzc3VlIGFuZCBwb3RlbnRpYWwgZnV0 dXJlIGNoYW5nZXMgaW4gbGVnYWwgc3RydWN0dXJlIGZvcg0KIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHRoYXQg d291bGQgYmV0dGVyIHByb3RlY3QgdGhvc2UgZXhwZXJ0cyB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRy dXN0IHdoaWxlIGFsc28gbWFpbnRhaW5pbmcgY2xvc2UgYWxpZ25tZW50IHdpdGggdGhlIElFVEYu PC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6OS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6SGVsdmV0aWNh Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIHN0 eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxk aXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+ VGhhbmtzLDwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdCI+PG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNC4wcHQiPkphc29uPC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6 MTIuMHB0Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0i TXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0LjBwdCI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxz cGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rp dj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0 LjBwdCI+UmVmOiBGcm9tPHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7 PC9zcGFuPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5jb20vdjMvX19odHRwczovZ2l0aHVi LmNvbS9pZXRmLWxsYy9JQVNBMi1SZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlL2lzc3Vlcy83X187ISFDUWwzbWNIWDJB IVQ1Y2J1dlVfNTl2QlIybjR1Zm9hSnE4Rm52eGJGME9vSFhiM015TldwRktvTFZnYmlnOXBYckw2 M1hscXpCSWJfQ09pQTVlQyQiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJjb2xvcjojMDU2M0MxIj5odHRwczovL2dp dGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0cm9zcGVjdGl2ZS9pc3N1ZXMvNzwvc3Bhbj48L2E+ PC9zcGFuPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0Ij48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48 L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6 OS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6SGVsdmV0aWNhIj4tLTxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0 ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48YnI+DQphZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxi cj4NCjwvc3Bhbj48YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86YWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRmLm9yZyI+PHNwYW4g c3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZTo5LjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2E7Y29sb3I6IzA1NjND MSI+YWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRmLm9yZzwvc3Bhbj48L2E+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6 ZTo5LjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2EiPjxicj4NCjwvc3Bhbj48YSBocmVmPSJodHRw czovL3VybGRlZmVuc2UuY29tL3YzL19faHR0cHM6L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2FkbWluLWRpc2N1c3NfXzshIUNRbDNtY0hYMkEhVDVjYnV2VV81OXZCUjJuNHVmb2FKcThG bnZ4YkYwT29IWGIzTXlOV3BGS29MVmdiaWc5cFhyTDYzWGxxekJJYl9JaWF1TTdfJCI+PHNwYW4g c3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZTo5LjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpIZWx2ZXRpY2E7Y29sb3I6IzA1NjND MSI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hZG1pbi1kaXNjdXNzPC9z cGFuPjwvYT48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_AF67177C7F0E42FF802991FE4B81B94Dcablecomcastcom_-- From nobody Thu Aug 5 06:24:16 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676CB3A117D for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:24:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C2FGRxCPuJhl for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C328B3A117A for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0184889.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 175DMKcO015536; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:24:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=QdVWM7iwPqzM9rxLXlvyHDlR/G70gCkwQ5u9jFiBVj8=; b=KeMfP+JXU2h25J7VnL/Q3AI0XbuQZPB+gH0G0EotW2R0uMxRQlGP5SC82mryCTay9He0 gcKg5rU7LP7X81UlP0lhsgTzLTTd7XM2h+tMyQbWXwvCC+yUe+3dS+arVvdpauVHc3eA HuCLdaeq1R/a3aexvpiXH798H7QNqwQ3zafJGF160YoVKlu5c4uiag6yQGhaIH0ioAQQ hUBEKx8IJtEd4B+EKhINdoTho8aSQCzo9IN+ROnT+M4cVfhh/iOwYaHKiYSY93ANFmwF Kuo7iOV308z3QrNNiadJp0Psoi7A7F1pqhCYpvaTgaqalmLXL66ZjzqJ2i878qGnhExE gA== Received: from pacdcexop03.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-wc-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.136]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a8gthg0k0-4 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:24:09 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXOP02.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.149) by PACDCEXOP03.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:24:03 -0400 Received: from pacdcexedge02.cable.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) by PACDCEXOP02.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:24:03 -0400 Received: from NAM04-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.74.44) by webmail.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:24:03 -0400 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by MN2PR11MB3582.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:ec::28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.21; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:24:01 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a086:c0d2:f549:d1f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4373.027; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:24:01 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Brian E Carpenter , Russ Housley CC: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust Thread-Index: AQHXiWtHVv2azSjC9UWnj5g6V7hOOatjx/2AgACNCoCAAE9igA== Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:24:01 +0000 Message-ID: <455DC4BF-0D8B-49C2-87B9-9B3F69E5DA09@cable.comcast.com> References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e4c6c351-05b8-4ce5-fcff-08d958144a28 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB3582: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(396003)(376002)(346002)(86362001)(110136005)(4326008)(316002)(8936002)(83380400001)(76116006)(71200400001)(2906002)(478600001)(53546011)(122000001)(6512007)(38070700005)(2616005)(6506007)(38100700002)(8676002)(966005)(33656002)(5660300002)(6486002)(186003)(66946007)(66446008)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?R010NkxvVjB2ZDlOMVFBNXR2Z2VzVEFqQkkvTERtejZxNVUrTVFJTTRCOEQv?= =?utf-8?B?b3FtUXBJZFlHRVZPUEEvalRweEU5TU8xZEwvaUk5MU81T01kRmp2ei9FMWxO?= =?utf-8?B?V0c3TVVwTC9panVRQ2tDZE5yUEF1a2xPdUYrQlAvQWJFelQxMkFTN0orbC9P?= =?utf-8?B?Rk5iY1VlME5kSGtCbGdQTkREYXNTaWhHb1lkRk9ia2tlWXBaMUJ6VFV2Q21U?= =?utf-8?B?aE5udGN2S2R2SlBRQkc5MmVsOWpnNzZ4RU8vYXZJVDVTUEpWMHdUYUJKTG9S?= =?utf-8?B?UVlyOEJQYjN3eWtnQm9ZNjJ3RE9MMXVsL2NmMTBhSU41SW5rU3lldG9BN1Jp?= =?utf-8?B?YWFrZ2I1TzluRS80dnR5QWhqQTZkTEQzeERqcyswSmdxTHZqUG1OZDJLYWJP?= =?utf-8?B?bWd5Y0hFRGl6bktCcEpWWTRsK2NqR3ZvY2IwL1lqMG1WekRQaGNTUUVqbkpM?= =?utf-8?B?TkFDaVFnZ01BaXdId1ZmcDZncWxCSjE3RENZWHVlKzhpd3lpRjFXeG5uTjVH?= =?utf-8?B?RFRRMjc0OHEzQnhjb2R1VlBqazFlcGtqUGJ3RzkxU2ZWU2FUSjFDQktnMldW?= =?utf-8?B?c29ZRnM0NmRGSHYzRW9uemxzRGYxV2xHTFRLQXhUUlBubzFKU2cram1pM0tP?= =?utf-8?B?cVF1VTJiQmRlRU5idFpPbUJiZ0lBWkJrRHQ3L204bzJLdVNMNGpoYlNyWStX?= =?utf-8?B?Nkl0Q21wUkxMWGxFdzNFOEtkMGJNaE1KSksrYWg2RXEwMDdRdXUyNHBoMm51?= =?utf-8?B?VFkyandTZEU2ekdKWGJjOGRhQ0c0QnZ5Tm93Y0t3VVRWNS9KV0RkTFc1ZzJ0?= =?utf-8?B?SndJekRWZ0ZCNDRmbXA1T1VCR3c3TldQL2ZBcmFsOEdySzd2VE04a3NGclg0?= =?utf-8?B?WmpSekh3UHhNelRPNHpBVXIwVHMwaG1waytEeHBsUk5TRDY2MGF5NnVDSitT?= =?utf-8?B?OXhsbThPNVNFNHJjK0M0cjJrTjZld01JNzNuMWdUblJBY3VBYnEzQkdqeDQ3?= =?utf-8?B?aTdXc3cvSTZlL1VOTk9waWpWaHlad2xiVlNBQ0FrcUlRam5qbys3Q21mam92?= =?utf-8?B?a3RRSU1VdFBDaGE0dThod1hrY2ltOGs4RTV2NXQrUmNqMG1ySzR4WTZXWnNF?= =?utf-8?B?bWtwTW9INUduZTVVQS8vNnlJN0UxaHR4aTV3ZERkR2Q2dHk0dFJ4Rjd3amJa?= =?utf-8?B?dXoxcFJrRFZ1S3A1U0dId1FwWDIwbGs0cXhBZVNyZzl5MDJXZ1NRSU93bXJF?= =?utf-8?B?RjgrVTJYdDZCTXFSUCtmNkx2cHRTVWhCREkrMTE0eTJaRUwwMmova2g0VENk?= =?utf-8?B?SEVpZUF4dHdpUW5uaEtqczYzWE1McGlLZlh6bStZNUEwSThyNHNSL2ovcXk4?= =?utf-8?B?VGtDRVVGMFJnQ0FjclNzSjBpSnNpRGI3SnZOQUIwUVVidGE4cENyajZ6cTdR?= =?utf-8?B?amdhWmc5Nzk3dzlaTGd2VENlUHl3RThGek5QaTBhRTF6bURORERJVVhHRTQy?= =?utf-8?B?ZmZ4eWJaRitFZ0s2OFY0SmIxYi9nd2prd1R0bytkdnpFV2VDaW8yYyt5T0R1?= =?utf-8?B?VjB3Szg1NmRhc1I1ZlF2ZklONWpWbkZzaTI1dlNmcXRWc3N0YWVGUXZ4Ym0v?= =?utf-8?B?TGdDVnNvbDJsWnltQVByRDFpVTNTYklZOFM0Qk15aUZXM2hIb2VWSzlVYjlU?= =?utf-8?B?cDJFTHBJSFNwVVh6eStSdTFRTlY3c1dLdHpndnBuWHVFNjJCY1U3ZnBmWlQ3?= =?utf-8?B?UzU5MXdRS1N3dTF6Szd4bi9CRlhwSmJNcmhKS2V3bHVacHFmNHdJL1VUcTFS?= =?utf-8?B?VEtVQkQrVE1WeUhwL01ncDl5dmdNU3hFdkdMbVphMzNqVzhBWTNpN1VQMFl6?= =?utf-8?Q?8qGOHLIkQ0xla?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=RISmceWgS/nL3C3ORbGWVMl0zKYON/1xtooyuKxU0PZ/WeNPw/WVNjG43f2btPl0VEABVeslXetN+TgJJlSeziVZSohye3Hzi10PXbXCr01K4ITYQRXyzQRTQaHXdbQZKAbfq8OOuPrKIE1Lqr+lp31fVmXWiUX6B7lRetvmgTthXYmmcKhZX+YP4TSnTNPEbT0iR6ryb6HRjZdU+V1ABTperdLJdy7BbRxxZVXZKLlvIZtP/WPmTDuDdf9XDmXCrtrMnZ43jaL0+Lle/6qzpMJ8/KRE8IyjC0SzTB3e925BssmuNPTL1G73t2ldMzs0b3RGQi4wMsmx+zCe2sNzkw== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=OeVonKHuvKptX9WJ5GD6UqaAvNZJtjg+Y0qL9cwGJrY=; b=GB/eQ3ggnanxuNmHniXP1AxtiFeLYuv6BLwO1BDVVITvfxCGLA2GE9mCBtZ4Zfsfcss2hTw2sQpJVT/u7A4tp0l2AGmiqV+oKfw5yVyZw40JdDz6V7qCzvWrFmYTnfYkG1/2LFRdGDsoRBqUDyPvLVAZfHkM5xNn79I1P1QNeBPOI60oSMihjAEYnl+EXOhKxz0NsKFLZIX5N9Y6grNkTH0YGqUTV5O2Stx+3Xi98XO7XDCWzGaausJScCLC2y7NfopcITJc8KsPTseizUfbpxraxjZOqQS5P4BJahMebvywkZpAmMN1N+PNjJb/dMAH/op8OTaYxMPAKN+GEuZrBg== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: e4c6c351-05b8-4ce5-fcff-08d958144a28 x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Aug 2021 13:24:01.4427 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: Q+mPO3DCA7HBXVIyjIhCZedVAYPVq1SppiWjQ20ZViAexgjSOS1jdd5pZuB83ji5/BMeIXngODLrDY3PlcB7d/kRcjTyWK1xu0sddEiaoqg= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB3582 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWQ X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 92C22IGPZ3IJbk071L5Gu0H6blaiqXAs X-Proofpoint-GUID: 92C22IGPZ3IJbk071L5Gu0H6blaiqXAs X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-05_04:2021-08-05, 2021-08-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [EXTERNAL] Re: IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 13:24:16 -0000 VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZmVlZGJhY2shDQoNClNhbWUgcXVlc3Rpb24gSSBhc2tlZCBvZiBSdXNz IC0tIHdvdWxkIHlvdSBwcmVmZXIgdGhhdCB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBsZWFkIHRoaXMgY29uc3Vs dGF0aW9uIGFsb25lIG9yIGluIHBhcnRuZXJzaGlwIHdpdGggdGhlIExMQyBvciB0aGF0IHRoZSBM TEMgbGVhZCBpdCAod2hpY2ggd291bGQgaW52b2x2ZSB3aG9tZXZlciB0aGF0IGlzIHNoYXJpbmcg dGhlIGlzc3Vlcy9wcm9ibGVtL21vdGl2YXRpb24pPw0KDQpKTA0KDQrvu79PbiA4LzUvMjEsIDAw OjQwLCAiQnJpYW4gRSBDYXJwZW50ZXIiIDxicmlhbi5lLmNhcnBlbnRlckBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdy b3RlOg0KDQogICAgUnVzcywNCg0KICAgIExvZ2ljYWxseSB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGFwcGx5IHRvIGFs bCB0aGUgcGFydGllcyB0aGF0IHRyYW5zZmVycmVkIElQUiB0byB0aGUNCiAgICBUcnVzdC4gVGhh dCB3b3VsZCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgaW5jbHVkZSBJU09DIGFuZCBDTlJJIGFzIHRoZSBpbml0aWFsIFNl dHRsb3JzDQogICAgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBhbnkgb3RoZXJzIHNpbmNlIHRoZW4gKFVTQy9JU0kgZm9y IGV4YW1wbGUpLg0KDQogICAgSXQgd291bGQgYmUgaGlnaGx5IHByZWZlcmFibGUgbm90IHRvIGdv IHRoZXJlLiBTaW5jZSBBcnRpY2xlIDguMiAiRGlzdHJpYnV0aW9ucyBVcG9uIERpc3NvbHV0aW9u IiBvZiB0aGUgVHJ1c3QgQWdyZWVtZW50IGRvZXMgbm90IHJlcXVpcmUgaXQsIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2Vl IHdoeSB0aGUgVHJ1c3RlZXMgd291bGQgYmUgdW5kZXIgYW55IG9ibGlnYXRpb24gdG8gZG8gdGhp cy4NCg0KICAgIEdpdmVuIEFydGljbGUgNy43ICJMaW1pdGF0aW9uIG9uIFRydXN0ZWUgTGlhYmls aXR5IiwgYW5kIG5vdCBiZWluZyBhbiBleHBlcnQgb24gdGhlIGxhd3Mgb2YgdGhlIENvbW1vbndl YWx0aCBvZiBWaXJnaW5pYSwgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBtdWNoIGJldHRlciB3aHkg d2UgbWlnaHQgbmVlZCB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHN0cnVjdHVyZSBvZiB0aGUgVHJ1c3QuIFRoZSBj b25jZXJucyBoaW50ZWQgYXQgYmVsb3cgd2VyZSBjZXJ0YWlubHkgbm90IGFkdmlzZWQgdG8gdGhl IG9yaWdpbmFsIFRydXN0ZWVzIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgbWUpLg0KDQogICAgSWYgdGhlcmUgd2FzIHRv IGJlIGEgcmVzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgb2YgdGhlIFRydXN0IEkgY2FuIGd1YXJhbnRlZSB0aGF0IHRoZXJl IHdvdWxkIGJlICp2ZXJ5KiBzdHJvbmcgb3Bwb3NpdGlvbiB0byB0eWluZyB0aGUgVHJ1c3QgVmVy c2lvbiAyIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIExMQyBpbiBhbnkgd2F5LCBzaGFwZSBvciBmb3JtLiBUaGUgVHJ1 c3QgbXVzdCByZXRhaW4gMTAwJSBpbmRlcGVuZGVuY2Ugb2YgYW55IG90aGVyIHBhcnRpZXM7IHRo YXQgd2FzIHRoZSB3aG9sZSBwb2ludCBvZiBjcmVhdGluZyB0aGUgVHJ1c3QgaW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0 IHBsYWNlLiAoVGhpcyBpcyBub3QgYW4gYW50aS1MTEMgY29tbWVudDsgaXQncyBqdXN0IGZ1bmRh bWVudGFsIHRvIHRoZSBnb2FsIGFuZCBsZWdhbCAiUHVycG9zZSIgb2YgdGhlIFRydXN0LikNCg0K ICAgIFJlZ2FyZHMNCiAgICAgICBCcmlhbiBDYXJwZW50ZXINCg0KICAgIE9uIDA1LUF1Zy0yMSAw ODoxNSwgUnVzcyBIb3VzbGV5IHdyb3RlOg0KICAgID4gSmFzb246DQogICAgPg0KICAgID4gQXMg cGFydCBvZiB0aGUgSUFOQSBUcmFuc2l0aW9uLCB0aGUgSUFOQS1yZWxhdGVkIElQUiB3YXMgdHJh bnNmZXJyZWQgdG8NCiAgICB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gIFRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBJQ0FOTiBh bmQgdGhlIFJJUnMgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBwYXJ0IG9mIGFueSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHRoYXQgd291bGQg Y2hhbmdlIHRoZSBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUuDQogICAgPg0KICAgID4gUnVzcw0KICAgID4NCiAg ICA+DQogICAgPj4gT24gQXVnIDQsIDIwMjEsIGF0IDM6NTkgUE0sIExpdmluZ29vZCwgSmFzb24g PEphc29uX0xpdmluZ29vZD00MGNvbWNhc3QuY29tQGRtYXJjLmlldGYub3JnIDxtYWlsdG86SmFz b25fTGl2aW5nb29kPTQwY29tY2FzdC5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+PiB3cm90ZToNCiAgICA+ Pg0KICAgID4+IFF1ZXN0aW9uOiBXaGF0IHNob3VsZCB0aGUgbmV4dCBzdGVwcyBiZSBoZXJlPw0K ICAgID4+DQogICAgPj4gQ29tbWVudHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgZHJhZnQgZG9jdW1lbnQ6IEJlZm9yZSBJ QVNBMiwgdGhlIHNhbWUgcGVvcGxlIHdlcmUgbWVtYmVycyBvZiB0aGUgSUFPQyBhbmQgdGhlIElF VEYgVHJ1c3QuIEEgc2lkZSBlZmZlY3Qgb2YgdGhlIElBU0EyIGNoYW5nZSB3YXMgdGhhdCBkaWZm ZXJlbnQgcGVvcGxlIHNlcnZlIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIExMQyBhbmQgSUVURiBUcnVzdCwgcG90ZW50 aWFsbHkgY3JlYXRpbmcgc29tZSBkaXN0YW5jZSB3aGVyZSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgbm9uZSBiZWZvcmUg d2hpbGUgYWxzbyBicmluZ2luZw0KICAgIHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQg bGVnYWwga25vd2xlZGdlICYgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBmb3IgdGhvc2UgcGVvcGxlIHNlcnZpbmcgdGhl IElFVEYgVHJ1c3QuIEF0IHRoZSBzYW1lIHRpbWUsIHRoZSB1bnVzdWFsIHN0cnVjdHVyZSBvZiB0 aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBtYWtlcyB0aG9zZSB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHBl cnNvbmFsbHkgZmluYW5jaWFsbHkgbGlhYmxlIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gVGhpcyBoYXMg aGlzdG9yaWNhbGx5IGJlZW4gbWl0aWdhdGVkIGJ5IG9idGFpbmluZyBsaWFiaWxpdHkgaW5zdXJh bmNlIGZvciBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0LCBidXQgaXQgaGFzIGluDQogICAgdGhl IHBhc3QgZmV3IHllYXJzIGJlY29tZSAvaW1wb3NzaWJsZSB0byBmdXJ0aGVyIGluY3JlYXNlIHRo YXQgaW5zdXJhbmNlLy4gQXMgYSByZXN1bHQgaXQgc2VlbXMgYmVuZWZpY2lhbCBmb3IgdGhlIElF VEYgY29tbXVuaXR5IHRvIGV4cGxvcmUgcG90ZW50aWFsIGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gdGhlIGxlZ2FsIHN0 cnVjdHVyZSBvZiB0aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdC4gVGhlcmUgYXJlIGF0IGxlYXN0IHR3byBtYWpvciBv cHRpb25zIGZvciBhY2hpZXZpbmcgdGhpcywgaWYgbm90IG1vcmUuIFdlIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCB0 aGUgSUVURiBUcnVzdCBhbG9uZSBvciBpbiBwYXJ0bmVyc2hpcCB3aXRoDQogICAgPj4gdGhlIElF VEYgTExDIHNob3VsZCBjb25kdWN0IGEgY29tbXVuaXR5IGNvbnN1bHRhdGlvbiBjb25jZXJuaW5n IHRoaXMgaXNzdWUgYW5kIHBvdGVudGlhbCBmdXR1cmUgY2hhbmdlcyBpbiBsZWdhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1 cmUgZm9yIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmV0dGVyIHByb3RlY3QgdGhvc2UgZXhw ZXJ0cyB0aGF0IHNlcnZlIHRoZSBJRVRGIFRydXN0IHdoaWxlIGFsc28gbWFpbnRhaW5pbmcgY2xv c2UgYWxpZ25tZW50IHdpdGggdGhlIElFVEYuDQogICAgPj4NCiAgICA+PiBUaGFua3MsDQogICAg Pj4gSmFzb24NCiAgICA+Pg0KICAgID4+IFJlZjogRnJvbSBodHRwczovL3VybGRlZmVuc2UuY29t L3YzL19faHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtbGxjL0lBU0EyLVJldHJvc3BlY3RpdmUvaXNz dWVzLzdfXzshIUNRbDNtY0hYMkEhUy1FWUhJMFRlVzZVd3JNZmlVWmhqeHhyVks5anBuNGVFek5R U3ZNOS1hVGZyZnpFUWQtb0NmLTdadmpBT19IVnFwN203a1FxJCAgPGh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5z ZS5jb20vdjMvX19odHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWV0Zi1sbGMvSUFTQTItUmV0cm9zcGVjdGl2 ZS9pc3N1ZXMvN19fOyEhQ1FsM21jSFgyQSFTLUVZSEkwVGVXNlV3ck1maVVaaGp4eHJWSzlqcG40 ZUV6TlFTdk05LWFUZnJmekVRZC1vQ2YtN1p2akFPX0hWcXA3bTdrUXEkID4NCiAgICA+PiAtLQ0K ICAgID4+IGFkbWluLWRpc2N1c3MgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgPj4gYWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZyA8bWFpbHRvOmFkbWluLWRpc2N1c3NAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQogICAgPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly91 cmxkZWZlbnNlLmNvbS92My9fX2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v YWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc19fOyEhQ1FsM21jSFgyQSFTLUVZSEkwVGVXNlV3ck1maVVaaGp4eHJWSzlq cG40ZUV6TlFTdk05LWFUZnJmekVRZC1vQ2YtN1p2akFPX0hWcWxOTXJGRkUkICA8aHR0cHM6Ly91 cmxkZWZlbnNlLmNvbS92My9fX2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v YWRtaW4tZGlzY3Vzc19fOyEhQ1FsM21jSFgyQSFTLUVZSEkwVGVXNlV3ck1maVVaaGp4eHJWSzlq cG40ZUV6TlFTdk05LWFUZnJmekVRZC1vQ2YtN1p2akFPX0hWcWxOTXJGRkUkID4NCiAgICA+DQog ICAgPg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Aug 5 06:31:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83E93A11E0; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:31:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BDGJdOTkcyq1; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA19D3A11DE; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs4.iomartmail.com (vs4.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.122]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 175DVSFC024552; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:28 +0100 Received: from vs4.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651514604A; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from vs4.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438CE46043; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.249]) by vs4.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([84.93.101.57]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 175DVRdm020830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:27 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Livingood, Jason'" Cc: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:31:27 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <16fc01d789fe$324d6370$96e82a50$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_16FD_01D78A06.9412B5D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGgT/XT+/T6x9iHf8qhmr4G5IfRHavTXADQ Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.93.101.57 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.1.0.2034-8.6.0.1018-26326.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--24.038-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--24.038-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.1.0.2034-8.6.1018-26326.007 X-TMASE-Result: 10--24.038200-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: vZFhdP8fGRdIZ/0Pt1D9ExGJru+O7KxNo4LMRUiBwZZ5V8mQm73t9K4L EQHrypGaLo+82zklnsmez6PumZjF/x0WcJq8YkZGQZpQRfyCdHy15eNIExieacqae4dFK5zK/uU mXgruvD0bbv3+XMZ7znz5lEEBuvacjrVn4cme+w42vbWaKPnQ2zEXweQhU7Tm9ej0gqM59rt966 XoOdpv0B6RTwq4Rkjf6WgBZT4x0yrlCjTeYR3AAbscK7j/n4EUVz8J52OVy+RBF/uMQVJqR+bYv ifUR395brCcV8Jgjp43oDRXh8qK2brbxxduc6FP+D+zbdY8Eik/gf7afIrQUyLywWZ/CAIYVZw5 p7rJKW/nXLNfn2BzlouwrNxN91/09FQh3flUIh429l5rBhPayS196sn93sBvCyn+V86caFz0tzu 81RRQRtIHdP67YM/nNKJc+yNXnDa0pXj1GkAfe5Tb3PKAwoR/RzUKJ/Z4Fhv5EK9B1Mm2hhAKX0 Db1SPyU6wbl/dRs1vGC5rzrXtPJVVeGWZmxN2M+KgiyLtJrSBRpVT2d1/FCoZjzYc2LRa+dNuRP Ty4jpFJpV9rHFX3jzblc6Gei4nlCLQsumV/5S+CFkqa43bHmwMuv289VbCIxUDTxL3vuSD4+veo c+y9mWZhpDhdH8fMLEu3XubSvQFitzfafzhYes/I/m8aIlgMFzNmdVMsHrjNJdfwRisk1QP6HuD cBX9q5F5L7hZwf22fRSghnfviFwI6gMblpHUxy733NwuklsIV1YvA68Vw721bBBSan3/J76fBrm YYwbk7DnbwOZ7v8AO3Ypg23Gu4ngIgpj8eDcBoFT3KzpHqEyIuW4R8am3tKI0bSAUfpHA7AFczf jr/7IdLfyOekkIv4ocd4xD5CUVvzUnk//b1QBmr8x56P9G+sDKaO6dMuIA= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 13:31:42 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_16FD_01D78A06.9412B5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jason, =20 While I appreciate you / the LLC raising this issue (I suspect it is the = LLC that is tasked with trying to find the relevant insurance), I would = really like to hear more about this concern direct from the Trustees. =20 So, yes, the Trust should lead. Probably they should call on the LLC for = explanations as necessary. =20 Cheers, Adrian =20 From: admin-discuss On Behalf Of = Livingood, Jason Sent: 05 August 2021 14:20 To: Russ Housley Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust =20 Thanks for the feedback and 100% agree! =20 Would you prefer that the IETF Trust lead this consultation alone or in = partnership with the LLC or that the LLC lead it? Obviously part of any = consultation would be to explain the =E2=80=98problem=E2=80=99 and share = all of the issues that have surfaced. (My personal view is that = it=E2=80=99d be best for the Trust to be the sole lead here.) =20 JL =20 From: Russ Housley Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 16:15 To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust =20 Jason: =20 As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to = the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of = any discussion that would change the legal structure. =20 Russ =20 =20 On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = > wrote: =20 Question: What should the next steps be here? =20 Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were = members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 = change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, = potentially creating some distance where there was none before while = also bringing the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & = experience for those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, = the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the = IETF Trust personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has = historically been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members = of the IETF Trust, but it has in the past few years become impossible to = further increase that insurance. As a result it seems beneficial for the = IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure of = the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving this, = if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with = the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this = issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust = that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while = also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. =20 Thanks, Jason =20 Ref: From = = https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 --=20 admin-discuss mailing list admin-discuss@ietf.org = = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss =20 ------=_NextPart_000_16FD_01D78A06.9412B5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jason,

 

While I = appreciate you / the LLC raising this issue (I suspect it is the LLC = that is tasked with trying to find the relevant insurance), I would = really like to hear more about this concern direct from the = Trustees.

 

So, yes, = the Trust should lead. Probably they should call on the LLC for = explanations as necessary.

 

Cheers,

Adrian

 

From: admin-discuss = <admin-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Livingood, = Jason
Sent: 05 August 2021 14:20
To: Russ Housley = <housley@vigilsec.com>
Cc: = admin-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: = IETF Trust

 

Thanks for the feedback and 100% = agree!

 

Would = you prefer that the IETF Trust lead this consultation alone or in = partnership with the LLC or that the LLC lead it? Obviously part of any = consultation would be to explain the =E2=80=98problem=E2=80=99 and share = all of the issues that have surfaced. (My personal view is that = it=E2=80=99d be best for the Trust to be the sole lead = here.)

 

JL

 

From: Russ Housley = <housley@vigilsec.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2021 = at 16:15
To: "Livingood, Jason" = <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>
Cc: = "admin-discuss@ietf.org" = <admin-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: = [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust

 

Jason:

 

As part of the IANA Transition, the = IANA-related IPR was transferred to the IETF Trust.  This means = that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of any discussion that would = change the legal structure.

 

Russ

 

 

On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, = Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livi= ngood=3D40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

 

Question: What = should the next steps be here?

 <= /span>

Comments from the draft document: Before = IASA2, the same people were members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A = side effect of the IASA2 change was that different people serve in the = IETF LLC and IETF Trust, potentially creating some distance where there = was none before while also bringing the benefit of more specialized = legal knowledge & experience for those people serving the IETF = Trust. At the same time, the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes = those that serve in the IETF Trust personally financially liable for the = IETF Trust. This has historically been mitigated by obtaining liability = insurance for members of the IETF Trust, but it has in the past few = years become impossible to further = increase that insurance. As a result it seems beneficial for the = IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure of = the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving this, = if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with = the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this = issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust = that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while = also maintaining close alignment with the IETF.<= /span>

 

Thanks,

Jason

 

-- 
admin-discuss mailing = list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
<= span lang=3DEN-US>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

 

------=_NextPart_000_16FD_01D78A06.9412B5D0-- From nobody Thu Aug 5 06:50:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6533A12A4 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:50:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZQFET9BFlU1 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2495D3A129F for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE1C300C11 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:50:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Zp0HHpXZCy-s for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D874C300B6A; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:50:01 -0400 Cc: Jason Livingood , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5CEDFA46-B88C-4B96-AB1B-B77C0287EAF8@vigilsec.com> References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> To: Brian Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 13:50:11 -0000 Brian: I understand that the legal agreements do not require consensus for any = change, but I would hate to create an environment where ICANN feels that = a bait-and-switch has taken place. For that reason, I advocate talking = to them long before any action takes place. Russ > On Aug 5, 2021, at 12:39 AM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Russ, >=20 > Logically that would apply to all the parties that transferred IPR to = the=20 > Trust. That would certainly include ISOC and CNRI as the initial = Settlors=20 > as well as any others since then (USC/ISI for example). >=20 > It would be highly preferable not to go there. Since Article 8.2 = "Distributions Upon Dissolution" of the Trust Agreement does not require = it, I don't see why the Trustees would be under any obligation to do = this. >=20 > Given Article 7.7 "Limitation on Trustee Liability", and not being an = expert on the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I'd like to = understand much better why we might need to change the structure of the = Trust. The concerns hinted at below were certainly not advised to the = original Trustees (including me). >=20 > If there was to be a restructure of the Trust I can guarantee that = there would be *very* strong opposition to tying the Trust Version 2 to = the IETF LLC in any way, shape or form. The Trust must retain 100% = independence of any other parties; that was the whole point of creating = the Trust in the first place. (This is not an anti-LLC comment; it's = just fundamental to the goal and legal "Purpose" of the Trust.) >=20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter >=20 > On 05-Aug-21 08:15, Russ Housley wrote: >> Jason: >>=20 >> As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred = to=20 > the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of = any discussion that would change the legal structure. >>=20 >> Russ >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Question: What should the next steps be here? >>> =20 >>> Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were = members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 = change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, = potentially creating some distance where there was none before while = also bringing=20 > the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & experience for those = people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, the unusual structure = of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the IETF Trust personally = financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has historically been = mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members of the IETF = Trust, but it has in=20 > the past few years become /impossible to further increase that = insurance/. As a result it seems beneficial for the IETF community to = explore potential changes to the legal structure of the IETF Trust. = There are at least two major options for achieving this, if not more. We = suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with >>> the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this = issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust = that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while = also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. >>> =20 >>> Thanks, >>> Jason >>> =20 >>> Ref: =46rom https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 = >>> --=20 >>> admin-discuss mailing list >>> admin-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = >>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 5 06:51:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235E63A12B2 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:51:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBg0LQVKHCq0 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5270C3A12B0 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 06:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F875300C77 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:51:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id v-O4IQ07LZD5 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0FB18300C9A; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D83C4DAD-C90B-49B6-B78C-D9B6670BB9B6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:51:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" To: Jason Livingood References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 13:51:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D83C4DAD-C90B-49B6-B78C-D9B6670BB9B6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jason: In my view, the IETF Trust should be the party to approach ICANN. Russ > On Aug 5, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Livingood, Jason = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the feedback and 100% agree! > =20 > Would you prefer that the IETF Trust lead this consultation alone or = in partnership with the LLC or that the LLC lead it? Obviously part of = any consultation would be to explain the =E2=80=98problem=E2=80=99 and = share all of the issues that have surfaced. (My personal view is that = it=E2=80=99d be best for the Trust to be the sole lead here.) > =20 > JL > =20 > From: Russ Housley > > Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 16:15 > To: "Livingood, Jason" > > Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org " = > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust > =20 > Jason: > =20 > As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred = to the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part = of any discussion that would change the legal structure. > =20 > Russ > =20 >=20 >=20 >> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = > wrote: >> =20 >> Question: What should the next steps be here? >> =20 >> Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were = members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 = change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, = potentially creating some distance where there was none before while = also bringing the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & = experience for those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, = the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the = IETF Trust personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has = historically been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members = of the IETF Trust, but it has in the past few years become impossible to = further increase that insurance. As a result it seems beneficial for the = IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure of = the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving this, = if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with = the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this = issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust = that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while = also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. >> =20 >> Thanks, >> Jason >> =20 >> Ref: =46rom https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 = >> --=20 >> admin-discuss mailing list >> admin-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = > =20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = --Apple-Mail=_D83C4DAD-C90B-49B6-B78C-D9B6670BB9B6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jason:

In = my view, the IETF Trust should be the party to approach ICANN.

Russ


On Aug 5, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Livingood, Jason = <Jason_Livingood=3D40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Thanks for the feedback and 100% agree!
 
Would you prefer that the IETF = Trust lead this consultation alone or in partnership with the LLC or = that the LLC lead it? Obviously part of any consultation would be to = explain the =E2=80=98problem=E2=80=99 and share all of the issues that = have surfaced. (My personal view is that it=E2=80=99d be best for the = Trust to be the sole lead here.)
 
JL
 
From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 4, = 2021 at 16:15
To: "Livingood, Jason" = <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>
Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" = <admin-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: = [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust
 
Jason:
 
As = part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to the = IETF Trust.  This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of = any discussion that would change the legal structure.
 
Russ
 


On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = <Jason_Livingood=3D40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:
 
Question: What should the next steps be here?
 
Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, = the same people were members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side = effect of the IASA2 change was that different people serve in the IETF = LLC and IETF Trust, potentially creating some distance where there was = none before while also bringing the benefit of more specialized legal = knowledge & experience for those people serving the IETF Trust. At = the same time, the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes those that = serve in the IETF Trust personally financially liable for the IETF = Trust. This has historically been mitigated by obtaining liability = insurance for members of the IETF Trust, but it has in the past few = years become impossible to further increase that insurance. As a = result it seems beneficial for the IETF community to explore potential = changes to the legal structure of the IETF Trust. There are at least two = major options for achieving this, if not more. We suggest that the IETF = Trust alone or in partnership with the IETF LLC should conduct a = community consultation concerning this issue and potential future = changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust that would better protect = those experts that serve the IETF Trust while also maintaining close = alignment with the IETF.
 
Thanks,
Jason
 
Ref: From https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7=
-- 
admin-discuss = mailing list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss<= o:p class=3D"">
 
-- admin-discuss mailing = list
admin-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_D83C4DAD-C90B-49B6-B78C-D9B6670BB9B6-- From nobody Thu Aug 5 12:38:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80433A1FC5 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:38:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6YLEtlFR8vY for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com (mail-pj1-x1030.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EBF43A1FC2 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id u5-20020a17090ae005b029017842fe8f82so2855577pjy.0 for ; Thu, 05 Aug 2021 12:38:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mrqo2xb0SuOLsA8umxNa9OHc1EndbipZ5h4HYWCelbg=; b=EFwfDCOmXIn025OV0dKv9UWH1E3b5HRnMmp6rC1hwaZh5nzf+NFdHNSWzf201bz/nN EAx1Op5Or5c6mhbzMagrQZ0Vecc7waUxMHXCAPqXrD2xKSd0StywfQ+itByfoBdpyvu7 iM1SaznSg8vMIrAXV7Xw5xlf+96JGvqsH6AvK5ZqHWZXGiOSSxNjALkLq517gN/sH2eC 76lWio+gwm5NdSZt/s/FdjFMrQstMaOPXPxIZSmJwoCPOjzfSVg/VceCyeqOTIWeSn52 PwszbJF2LD38iscSiMkFYUrXwhcau3RcRWqcdM9ZiQ/YQulNf0BaLiD3gLicmm2PziU6 c8pg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mrqo2xb0SuOLsA8umxNa9OHc1EndbipZ5h4HYWCelbg=; b=FYGRHcBETuzAMzEQYPZOUnQTjNrVHVFdOYCYCaRzjO2V8BJfOviaXtxHG6830mCB2u zwAAu/aDx9H/pK0ar/IFPxPpvelFJsVKr1HGt0WBZcLWpw7e4W0a83g3+yAaO9YdFDv3 nE23MoOFuatibS+XgmQp9XizuBqiW4rx9Vah+ngkeyAxSvBwoev4FnV2M4m5rA0PdG2L Zblar/Y5GDiFpH9JsH/9KlYOopvLPsunVtqIQCnSVJpASlyRxScfOFnabEk7Pz5CFym7 h0fWyuMV0WV7Hl/Pt2igbG+oFDo7gepd1DQQm1TJ7HUsFQZpUgDFvYwCCrotS/WhpVyU QZkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OZ4coPQGV3MwAcY1ps63jPpnmcONFQTg5GlcS/eHKSV0G6EBx 9Gam9UssfHMue3ycVQ+w7pvGWtBniM1m/8fk X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxATN5ZtMieoHO/KVj1j2dWhWCeEaI9dgBleP8AOf/20udQSVwubifBvcqav2c+m187iUzGnA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:808:b029:3c1:15ba:ade2 with SMTP id m8-20020a056a000808b02903c115baade2mr995663pfk.74.1628192299938; Thu, 05 Aug 2021 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.100.8.98] ([58.84.227.247]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j8sm6523519pjm.14.2021.08.05.12.38.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Aug 2021 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT) To: Russ Housley Cc: Jason Livingood , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> <5CEDFA46-B88C-4B96-AB1B-B77C0287EAF8@vigilsec.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 07:38:12 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5CEDFA46-B88C-4B96-AB1B-B77C0287EAF8@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 19:38:25 -0000 Russ, But that doesn't just apply to IANA data, does it? Every contributor of IPR deserves the same consideration. Anywat, first I want to understand the claim that there is a serious liability risk and whether it can be fixed. From the current Trustees and their counsel, please. Regards Brian Carpenter On 06-Aug-21 01:50, Russ Housley wrote: > Brian: > > I understand that the legal agreements do not require consensus for any change, but I would hate to create an environment where ICANN feels that a bait-and-switch has taken place. For that reason, I advocate talking to them long before any action takes place. > > Russ > > >> On Aug 5, 2021, at 12:39 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> >> Russ, >> >> Logically that would apply to all the parties that transferred IPR to the >> Trust. That would certainly include ISOC and CNRI as the initial Settlors >> as well as any others since then (USC/ISI for example). >> >> It would be highly preferable not to go there. Since Article 8.2 "Distributions Upon Dissolution" of the Trust Agreement does not require it, I don't see why the Trustees would be under any obligation to do this. >> >> Given Article 7.7 "Limitation on Trustee Liability", and not being an expert on the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I'd like to understand much better why we might need to change the structure of the Trust. The concerns hinted at below were certainly not advised to the original Trustees (including me). >> >> If there was to be a restructure of the Trust I can guarantee that there would be *very* strong opposition to tying the Trust Version 2 to the IETF LLC in any way, shape or form. The Trust must retain 100% independence of any other parties; that was the whole point of creating the Trust in the first place. (This is not an anti-LLC comment; it's just fundamental to the goal and legal "Purpose" of the Trust.) >> >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> On 05-Aug-21 08:15, Russ Housley wrote: >>> Jason: >>> >>> As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was transferred to >> the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part of any discussion that would change the legal structure. >>> >>> Russ >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason > wrote: >>>> >>>> Question: What should the next steps be here? >>>> >>>> Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people were members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, potentially creating some distance where there was none before while also bringing >> the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & experience for those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, the unusual structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the IETF Trust personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has historically been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members of the IETF Trust, but it has in >> the past few years become /impossible to further increase that insurance/. As a result it seems beneficial for the IETF community to explore potential changes to the legal structure of the IETF Trust. There are at least two major options for achieving this, if not more. We suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with >>>> the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning this issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF Trust that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust while also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> Ref: From https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 >>>> -- >>>> admin-discuss mailing list >>>> admin-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss >>> >>> >> > From nobody Thu Aug 5 13:32:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066AF3A07CB for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:32:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NkaHV8G-DhUH for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 763E93A07BE for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F27F300C49 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ToF1lvLquBSw for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 927BB3002A6; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:32:30 -0400 Cc: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , Jason Livingood Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5FCD9BF4-7439-42E5-A5FC-2DA2258F9AFE@cable.comcast.com> <109a7af5-49b1-5440-91ce-89e608d1bc4b@gmail.com> <5CEDFA46-B88C-4B96-AB1B-B77C0287EAF8@vigilsec.com> To: Brian Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] IASA2 Q: IETF Trust X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 20:32:39 -0000 Brian: No, is does not apply to the data in the IANA registries. It applies to = iana.org and the IANA trademark. The second question was not directed toward me ... Russ > On Aug 5, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Russ, >=20 > But that doesn't just apply to IANA data, does it? Every contributor = of IPR deserves the same consideration. >=20 > Anywat, first I want to understand the claim that there is a serious = liability risk and whether it can be fixed. =46rom the current Trustees = and their counsel, please. >=20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter >=20 > On 06-Aug-21 01:50, Russ Housley wrote: >> Brian: >>=20 >> I understand that the legal agreements do not require consensus for = any change, but I would hate to create an environment where ICANN feels = that a bait-and-switch has taken place. For that reason, I advocate = talking to them long before any action takes place. >>=20 >> Russ >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Aug 5, 2021, at 12:39 AM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Russ, >>>=20 >>> Logically that would apply to all the parties that transferred IPR = to the=20 >>> Trust. That would certainly include ISOC and CNRI as the initial = Settlors=20 >>> as well as any others since then (USC/ISI for example). >>>=20 >>> It would be highly preferable not to go there. Since Article 8.2 = "Distributions Upon Dissolution" of the Trust Agreement does not require = it, I don't see why the Trustees would be under any obligation to do = this. >>>=20 >>> Given Article 7.7 "Limitation on Trustee Liability", and not being = an expert on the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I'd like to = understand much better why we might need to change the structure of the = Trust. The concerns hinted at below were certainly not advised to the = original Trustees (including me). >>>=20 >>> If there was to be a restructure of the Trust I can guarantee that = there would be *very* strong opposition to tying the Trust Version 2 to = the IETF LLC in any way, shape or form. The Trust must retain 100% = independence of any other parties; that was the whole point of creating = the Trust in the first place. (This is not an anti-LLC comment; it's = just fundamental to the goal and legal "Purpose" of the Trust.) >>>=20 >>> Regards >>> Brian Carpenter >>>=20 >>> On 05-Aug-21 08:15, Russ Housley wrote: >>>> Jason: >>>>=20 >>>> As part of the IANA Transition, the IANA-related IPR was = transferred to=20 >>> the IETF Trust. This means that ICANN and the RIRs need to be part = of any discussion that would change the legal structure. >>>>=20 >>>> Russ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Livingood, Jason = > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Question: What should the next steps be here? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Comments from the draft document: Before IASA2, the same people = were members of the IAOC and the IETF Trust. A side effect of the IASA2 = change was that different people serve in the IETF LLC and IETF Trust, = potentially creating some distance where there was none before while = also bringing=20 >>> the benefit of more specialized legal knowledge & experience for = those people serving the IETF Trust. At the same time, the unusual = structure of the IETF Trust makes those that serve in the IETF Trust = personally financially liable for the IETF Trust. This has historically = been mitigated by obtaining liability insurance for members of the IETF = Trust, but it has in=20 >>> the past few years become /impossible to further increase that = insurance/. As a result it seems beneficial for the IETF community to = explore potential changes to the legal structure of the IETF Trust. = There are at least two major options for achieving this, if not more. We = suggest that the IETF Trust alone or in partnership with >>>>> the IETF LLC should conduct a community consultation concerning = this issue and potential future changes in legal structure for the IETF = Trust that would better protect those experts that serve the IETF Trust = while also maintaining close alignment with the IETF. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Jason >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ref: =46rom = https://github.com/ietf-llc/IASA2-Retrospective/issues/7 = >>>>> --=20 >>>>> admin-discuss mailing list >>>>> admin-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss = >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > admin-discuss mailing list > admin-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/admin-discuss From nobody Thu Aug 5 16:09:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3260C3A0FF2 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2021 16:09:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Administration LLC Board of Directors Chair To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <162820494112.25570.9251494065967135791@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 16:09:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] LLC Board Meeting Details - 12 August 2021 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 23:09:01 -0000 IETF LLC Board of Directors meetings are conducted via web/teleconference. Members of the community are welcome to attend certain portions of these meetings as observers. Regular meetings are divided into four sections: 1. Open (to Observers) 2. Board + Support Staff Only 3. Board + Executive Director Only 4. Executive Session (Board-Only) The next meeting will be held on Thursday, 12 August 2021 at 12:00 PT (19:00 UTC). WebEx and Dial-in information is at the bottom of this message and also at . The agenda for the meeting can be found at . A calendar of upcoming public meetings can be downloaded or subscribed to at: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/ietf.org_vmffrv4hq14aqpedenuv5v42hs%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics ------------------------------------------------------- JOIN WEBEX MEETING https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m5481867e37f4c98327c151d9a6a7cd78 Meeting number (access code): 178 797 1273 Meeting password: meetings JOIN BY PHONE 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 178 797 1273 IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation. From nobody Sat Aug 7 05:55:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CC73A39BA; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 05:55:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_BTC_ID=0.499, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hw9PMWFq6IGj; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 05:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.145.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B67B3A39AF; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156891.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 177Cp0k1015026; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 08:54:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=0+eg2i5Zfo0Y0NhNZesov1tANL9cGmN7tIi2NZGyfBk=; b=V6DM0FvJi8zSBjRLvUsTvYdLtH0nw7xh79n/sT6855fbCY7y3x2TSJPVvk6kL6cabMDo 4jrUJtLjOfJ+gSjOWRfeV1f2Hb9ABHylz/kS7T/yyls1oAqcYMMzFaAMwHl8uxeE8XvI vNi4zvE6hjtDg8ClguImusl8R0xnu6QAPFR732KI+NWjxCly/vdivtpCZoi9i7th0w21 vEsI3r2QW3ZAHQgCEZD1SWWvkDm++a3s+miT+n08+D7Ob2ZPsXZj3uWy3v+anreT7Vew g4q/UhNif2jfyfEGmuiKNJjPUDDKaxmRbQJ/VDFSm8HZhpzjYL2ai5+dUabNk5ueLjUm hA== Received: from pacdcex52.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-wc-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.136]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a9q0xry8p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 07 Aug 2021 08:54:42 -0400 Received: from PACDCEX51.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.150) by PACDCEX52.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 08:54:40 -0400 Received: from pacdcexedge02.cable.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) by PACDCEX51.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 08:54:40 -0400 Received: from NAM04-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.73.43) by webmail.comcast.com (68.87.38.198) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 08:54:40 -0400 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by MN2PR11MB4141.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:13b::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4373.25; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:54:37 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c96f:6918:7fb8:1a37]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c96f:6918:7fb8:1a37%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4394.021; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:54:37 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Toerless Eckert , IETF Executive Director , "manycouches@ietf.org" , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Is IETF doomed ? Re: IETF 112 will be a fully online meeting Thread-Index: AQHXimMatSA1luZFiUGed+fzrx9j/atmwcqAgAD9IQA= Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:54:37 +0000 Message-ID: <31DB2E32-83B6-40B0-BFB3-878B8C127928@cable.comcast.com> References: <3CCF6C18-41C2-4771-88DE-423FF0EE7316@ietf.org> <20210806174837.GA55001@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20210806174837.GA55001@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101 authentication-results: cs.fau.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cs.fau.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 41c47952-d9c2-48fd-b953-08d959a28391 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4141: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(8676002)(83380400001)(45954011)(66446008)(2616005)(316002)(5660300002)(66946007)(66476007)(8936002)(110136005)(76116006)(186003)(66556008)(478600001)(71200400001)(64756008)(6512007)(38100700002)(86362001)(966005)(38070700005)(2906002)(6506007)(33656002)(122000001)(6486002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?ZG9OaFdpUDVlUlB1WTR5b09KdlV6NzR5SnFtYzRBekFrRHF6RXhqRnVubS9q?= =?utf-8?B?cmdWdTNTM241dVpiNGZhT3hWN2t4akJCbWpLU3pMQjl1dEs2NzZEYjBsRnNB?= =?utf-8?B?b3IxaTZ2MlA3ajgxY2hFbDU5RGtlYmhUS3FOTXBLaVk4VW9Za21wS3hPUFdP?= =?utf-8?B?bWVvOWxiQ29ZK084Qmh1ak5KM0pRTnoxVlNnWXZpaFBPRjVicWRtWk5DanRt?= =?utf-8?B?YUxiVGU1NlVMUGlzSm1rTFBQcElRZlN3V1RwOXlKZUswU2xHSXNtbXNWcFRi?= =?utf-8?B?ckk2RzI5eU9rRU5kbWNZS0RndVpNb3hNOWJ3MDlpTXZKZmNwM2ZaSEhHM09P?= =?utf-8?B?T0ZQbUo1eVFRKzFORmVja2JsQzFIZGcvUlVnVGtuellhc1V4bE9aaEUxYUp3?= =?utf-8?B?L1VrOFcwOHB5Q25IVzVwaXJEaVAwSEx4NmdHSTJheDdZUzd3TzB2M0t3VzlG?= =?utf-8?B?aGlGOUlpb0tkRzBTdDZPNXdkNWFJQlJYNHpVTXl1K1ZNK1JOVFJ1V2RTS1pZ?= =?utf-8?B?N1B3WllmamZTTGE0S3NNb0FXY2pENUJaMS9YZURvTXQ4MEM2aEVnak9ZVU0z?= =?utf-8?B?TmZYSzNIaUpJRDFVSCtSejFDbVNmQkM3aDlwYnY4U1ZuNXg1Wm9UTVE4VXRK?= =?utf-8?B?VVZYL1J4VE16UkZXMEVOWHhxM1FnZ2VJRFFnYmJwd3VZOGM2bVZxU0tPK1Vw?= =?utf-8?B?UFVzeDAwc0E0RkxQMU9EOElkV1gzTVdVNys2c3B0emNzTE5ybTN0OG5KV2pW?= =?utf-8?B?T1dWVVE0YzJjK1owVW15OGU0RlVPdWR4TGFXWUpZZUticWNWd09NejBZcmdU?= =?utf-8?B?Z0t3VnF0UlRwTWdUNlhuNVY5Q3d5MmNXWDlEbEJEcWZjakwwT1MyVU9Da3ND?= =?utf-8?B?Z1QzRkxVVVdpbmdPendlMFlROUZtU2pUUlluYUdObitya05abkxRZHc4VFJY?= =?utf-8?B?RlIvZjJRUWs5VlYzbyt6YXVEcmpCaERIc1JSYzNBSFMvOUJQcG1PVHdJcEpS?= =?utf-8?B?YTRsdkFrVTJuR3poYW92d05EalN1TEJ6bWQwcGdUQW1XZzdEOW80NWZVTTBp?= =?utf-8?B?ZlArcmRGZWRmbG04MkZaNTR1djdVQlozcEFuZEd4MHIwYTBRU0NsN2JHQkg0?= =?utf-8?B?cFEzS01EbGtoeldkbkU4NXlZeS9KeEg2SHMzUWhqalQvSmIxNjdiOVdQZGlz?= =?utf-8?B?TVdPclJlY1VleTFOa2xXNFVqV3lyZlFWaXIzeG41OERNYyt3bm5GeDdWZTJE?= =?utf-8?B?dUFtTkxzZnFkME5NNm9hczAzVnJyR3ZDZkFGNEVsUHdqTFNhM2ZHWEIwa0Mz?= =?utf-8?B?Tyt6WWlQbC9Jc1RtVkYvTWFPbmNTeVprQUpscWpseXRCV3JPcmJMSSs5cXJk?= =?utf-8?B?YlFJcWlzSjdvNTN6MGxzT0UzOHd5VmhvSkEzUFVnZG9ORDlwS2taZ3NOZTdR?= =?utf-8?B?Yi9PWmJvVlBjMmtvZXJvZmFMRmVaeVZGS3lqM0N3bXlrUWFnSFpNVVptQ0tj?= =?utf-8?B?Y1owcE1RQ084c24wdzFUSVNLT3pHQStBQXBWNkZEeGxNeU1QQ0lhbUdhMFBC?= =?utf-8?B?LzFYRVZoeHh0WWFCVGFtdXZ4VklKTldnYlk4WHBlYXNrUXRBMHU3MlBSc1hs?= =?utf-8?B?dGRwY2pEVjUwenVKVGN3emlvMWg3ZUNYd3VkZHZuMXNwbHhjVkY2d0U4UVpP?= =?utf-8?B?SmNyUVJjaDNjUlUwRU1OZDNpMk0wWFlPWXg4ajNIV3ROQ1cyQjVsRDg3M3hy?= =?utf-8?B?Z1ZBMGdtQ0VxRzkrQlBibHIwRlJJTytCVTRSSVJhSTM5WCtiNnpucC94Z1FK?= =?utf-8?B?ejhSRmZHQ1I5MmdKYnJNUEtWc0hVUDYwVWdTMCtoUnlOVXVqcVRSMG9pUmxY?= =?utf-8?Q?JlfXAz5bPirz+?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=DpViE3hrPx79n1pq9yWtqqFzfQFnAjRjKmqR3+um/RWeEbrRRqIN2odQxhLjhXgupOuNNPY4Icf5cV4qssHnOMfECCQZQj6lOMjaVWUXTS1USix+IObGg3dMMQvaIn6xF4X/O5XizTL+CF/38V+n9lZeiwJzBM8G6HpXCoBPqnBeCmhIH0YiCP1dx3qr+MuuaA+/BeUwUs5xtwPp/l2L5SRk8VZic23PdDJShD8gFLycAlPF+WgytQENXaXQHueiyfcGbjFY4lnPPiydTQ4byaQkwuDet9rGrR/65kZ2cVXCLkqHKFZ7J2pyu97m//ZT6A/hwvYINnQjQXgQBWczxw== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ew/FSLzPberoMV95lTW6DeEBDZ2fvjNbtLI5u2K3qok=; b=hY9AXQ8ot5Vqh0XKJAE/3ZkhcRBPQIpj5kQDZJh4VSRemvNByAIC0BGwjNfPMmSAPZ8UxqO78y822UyDYzaHag8157zeXYnGCl8IPuUIsb4eb4++rqlGdCi211p1gwLSXd+/30BBAR66BglGqz1ghn/DjtbKYBJ/gYsXlxXHNgT3wg5GXniBGXZBTY8kucz2arQLOdKqoYb8CL/sXlMeoGHfgZfVJxlX+JCUpGiJzSqgSVZeWT91wtPJZm2XjgYCULsuqwrxA6gkiKbK5tZ6VpoTB0+KVnqDOKR2InhcDP9E+Q57j9HJDMxA7oBKJ44jnXB9FQJkp2pab68CLEjlgg== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 41c47952-d9c2-48fd-b953-08d959a28391 x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Aug 2021 12:54:37.5455 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: VQnksNc4F9neN/3200NBaO4m01R7RFA4S5qpFL9zoUNos5VEZXjLuQQodu0nQoSiOL6G0OQUM4Lx/ApyV7VA3W7t5fHp8hh0r89H9MwBQSc= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB4141 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWQ X-Proofpoint-GUID: lxmOBd-W5UxzbgyVjCJMH5fd2qNYWi3X X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: lxmOBd-W5UxzbgyVjCJMH5fd2qNYWi3X X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-07_04:2021-08-06, 2021-08-07 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Is IETF doomed ? Re: IETF 112 will be a fully online meeting X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2021 12:55:02 -0000 SSBhZ3JlZSB0aGlzIGlzIGltcG9ydGFudCBhbmQgdGhhdCAxMTIgZ29pbmcgb25saW5lIGdpdmVz IHVzIHVudGlsIGVhcmx5IDIwMjIgdG8gZmlndXJlIHRoaW5ncyBvdXQuIEknZCBlbmNvdXJhZ2Ug eW91IHRvIGpvaW4gdGhlIG5leHQgSUVURiBMTEMgYm9hcmQgbWVldGluZyBvbiAxMiBBdWd1c3Qg YXQgMTk6MDAgVVRDIChodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9hYm91dC9ncm91cHMvbGxjLWJvYXJk L21lZXRpbmctaW5mby8pIGFuZCByYWlzZSB0aGlzIGlzc3VlIGluIG91ciBvcGVuIFEmQS4gV2Ug YXJlIGFscmVhZHkgcGxhbm5pbmcgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0aGUgc3BlY2lmaWNzIG9mIGEgY29tbXVu aXR5IGNvbnN1bHRhdGlvbiBvbiBoeWJyaWQgbWVldGluZy1yZWxhdGVkIGNvc3RzICYgbGFzdCB3 ZWVrIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBzb21lIGluaXRpYWwgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIDExMiBkZWNp c2lvbiBjYWxsIHdpdGggdGhlIElFU0cgYWJvdXQgd2hhdCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmFsIGNoYW5nZXMgbWln aHQgYmUgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIGJldHRlciBzY2FsZSBtZWV0aW5nIGNvc3RzIHVwIGFuZCBkb3du Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHNvIHRob3VnaHRmdWxseSByYWlzaW5nIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUsDQpKYXNv bg0KDQrvu79PbiA4LzYvMjEsIDEzOjQ5LCAiaWV0ZiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgVG9lcmxlc3MgRWNr ZXJ0IiA8aWV0Zi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiB0dGVAY3MuZmF1LmRlPiB3 cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIFRoYW5rcyBhIGxvdCB0byBldmVyeWJvZHkgaW52b2x2ZWQgaW4gdGhpcyB3 b3JrLg0KDQogICAgSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBmdW5kYW1lbnRhbCBjb25jZXJuLCBhbmQgc29ycnkgZm9y IHRoZSB0aXRsZSBjbGljay1iYWl0LA0KICAgIGJ1dCB0aGlzIGRhdGEgcG9pbnQgcmVhbGx5IHJh aXNlcyBhbiBJTUhPIGZ1bmRhbWVudGFsIGNvbmNlcm46DQoNCiAgICBSZWZlcnJpbmcgdG86IGh0 dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5jb20vdjMvX19odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tZWRpYS9kb2N1 bWVudHMvSUVURl8xMTJfTWFkcmlkX2dvX25vLWdvX2Fzc2Vzc21lbnQucGRmX187ISFDUWwzbWNI WDJBIVdmeGhfdXFGVmpIdFZqZWZWSEF5Zm5yc2tZdUpzNnl1LTFpQlRNdlhMUEVLMTJqNW5XNlJN RktYYnhtNHJzcDgyVi02d1BoVCQNCiAgICBQb2ludCAxLjIgY2FsY3VsYXRlZCB0aGF0IElFVEYg d291bGQgc3VmZmVyIGEgZmluYW5jaWFsIGxvc3Mgb2YgJDU0MGsNCiAgICBpZiBpdCBvbmx5IGhh ZCA1MDAgb25zaXRlIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cyAoYW5kICQ3ODBrIGlmIGl0IGhhZCBvbmx5IDMwMA0K ICAgIG9uc2l0ZSBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMpLg0KDQogICAgVG8gYSBsYXJnZSBleHRlbmQgdGhpcyBz ZWVtcyB0byBiZSBpbmRlcGVuZGVudCBvZiBjb3ZpZCwNCiAgICBleGNlcHQgZm9yIGdsb2JhbCBz cG9uc29yc2hpcCwgYnV0IHRoYXQgdG9vIGF0IGJlc3QgY291bGQNCiAgICBiZSBleHBlY3RlZCB0 byBiZSBwcm9wb3J0aW9uYWwgdG8gdGhlIG51bWJlciBvZiBpbi1wZXJzb24NCiAgICBhdHRlbmRl ZXMgSU1ITywgc28gaXQgd291bGQganVzdCBzaGlmdCB0aGUgZnVuZGFtZW50YWxzIGEgYml0Lg0K DQogICAgSW4gY29uY2x1c2lvbiwgaXQgc2VlbXMgd2UgZG8gbm90IGhhdmUgd29ya2VkIG91dCBh bnkgbW9kZWxzIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQNCiAgICBpbi1wZXJzb24gbWVldGluZ3MgYXQgcmVkdWNlZCBj b3N0LCB0byBmaW5hbmNpYWxseSBhbGxvdyBtZWV0aW5ncw0KICAgIHdpdGggYSBzbWFsbGVyIG51 bWJlciBvZiBpbi1wZXJzb24gYXR0ZW5kYW50cy4NCiAgICBJcyB0aGlzIGEgY29ycmVjdCB1bmRl cnN0YW5kaW5nID8NCg0KICAgIFdoZW4gY292aWQgaGl0LCB0aGUgU0hNT08gZWZmb3J0IGJ1dCBl dmVuIG1vcmUgc28gbWVldGVjaG8ncyB3b3JrDQogICAgcHJvdmlkZWQgcmVhbCBnb29kIHNvbHV0 aW9ucyB0byBpbXByb3ZlIHJlbW90ZSBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW9uc2hpcCwNCiAgICBidXQgaXQgc2Vl bXMgd2UgaGF2ZSBub3QgbWFkZSBhbnkgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgaW4gZGV2ZWxvcGluZw0KICAgIGEgbW9y ZSBjb3N0LWVmZmljaWVudCwgc2NhbGUtZG93bi1hYmxlIGluLXBlcnNvbiBtZWV0aW5nIG9wdGlv bg0KICAgIHNpbmNlIDIwMTYuDQoNCiAgICBUaGlzIHdvdWxkIGJlIGhpZ2hseSBkaXNjb3VyYWdp bmcsIGJlY2F1c2UgaXQgc2VlbWVkIHRvIGJlIGNsZWFyIHRvDQogICAgbWUgdGhhdCB3aGVuIHdl IHN0YXJ0ZWQgbWFueWNvdWNoZXMgaW4gMjAxNiwgdGhlIHBhcnQgb2Ygc2NhbGluZw0KICAgIGRv d24gY29zdCBmb3IgdGhlIGluLW1lZXRpbmcgcGFydCB3YXMgYSBjcnVjaWFsIGFzcGVjdCBvZiB0 aGUNCiAgICBtYW55Y291Y2hlcyBnb2Fscy4NCg0KICAgIERvIHdlIGFncmVlIHRoaXMgaXMgYSBj cnVjaWFsIGlzc3VlIGFuZCB0aGF0IHdlIHNob3VsZCB3b3JrIG9uIGl0ID8NCg0KICAgIElNSE8s IGl0IGlzIGFuZCB3ZSBzaG91bGQsIGFuZCBtYWtpbmcgTWFkcmlkIGdvIHZpcnR1YWwgY291bGQg Z2l2ZQ0KICAgIHVzIHRoZSB0aW1lIHRvIGRvIHNvIGludG8gMjAyMi4NCg0KICAgIENoZWVycw0K ICAgICAgICBUb2VybGVzcw0KDQogICAgT24gRnJpLCBBdWcgMDYsIDIwMjEgYXQgMDE6MzI6NDhQ TSArMTIwMCwgSUVURiBFeGVjdXRpdmUgRGlyZWN0b3Igd3JvdGU6DQogICAgPiBUaGUgSUVTRywg SUVURiBMTEMgYW5kIElSVEYgQ2hhaXIgaGF2ZSBkZWNpZGVkIHRvIG1vdmUgdGhlIGluLXBlcnNv biBJRVRGIDExMiBNYWRyaWQgbWVldGluZyB0byBhIGZ1bGx5IG9ubGluZSBtZWV0aW5nLiAgVGhp cyBkZWNpc2lvbiBpcyBiYXNlZCBvbiB0aGUgSUVURiBFeGVjdXRpdmUgRGlyZWN0b3LigJlzIHJl Y29tbWVuZGF0aW9uLCB3aGljaCB3YXMgbWFkZSBhZnRlciBjb25kdWN0aW5nIGFuIGFzc2Vzc21l bnQgb2YgbG9jYWwgY29uZGl0aW9ucyB1c2luZyB0aGUgY3JpdGVyaWEgc2V0IG91dCBpbiB0aGUg YXNzZXNzbWVudCBmcmFtZXdvcmsgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIHdpdGggY29tbXVuaXR5IGlucHV0IFsxXS4N CiAgICA+DQogICAgPiBGcm9tIG91ciByZWNlbnQgc3VydmV5IGl0IGlzIGNsZWFyIHRoYXQgdGhl IG51bWJlciBvZiBvbnNpdGUgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHdpbGwgYmUgd2VsbCBiZWxvdyB0aGUgYnVk Z2V0ZWQgbGV2ZWwsIHdoaWNoIGlzIGxpa2VseSB0byBsZWFkIHRvIGEgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgZmlu YW5jaWFsIGxvc3MsIG1ha2luZyBhbiBpbi1wZXJzb24gbWVldGluZyBmaW5hbmNpYWxseSB1bnZp YWJsZS4gIFRoZSByZXN1bHRzIG9mIHRoZSBzdXJ2ZXkgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhcyBhbiBpbnRl cmFjdGl2ZSBkYXNoYm9hcmQgWzJdLg0KICAgID4NCiAgICA+IFRoZSByZWNvbW1lbmRhdGlvbiBh bmQgZnVsbCBhc3Nlc3NtZW50IGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vdXJsZGVmZW5zZS5j b20vdjMvX19odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tZWRpYS9kb2N1bWVudHMvSUVURl8xMTJfTWFk cmlkX2dvX25vLWdvX2Fzc2Vzc21lbnQucGRmX187ISFDUWwzbWNIWDJBIVdmeGhfdXFGVmpIdFZq ZWZWSEF5Zm5yc2tZdUpzNnl1LTFpQlRNdlhMUEVLMTJqNW5XNlJNRktYYnhtNHJzcDgyVi02d1Bo VCQNCiAgICA+DQogICAgPiBUaGVyZSB3aWxsIGJlIGEgZGVsYXkgYmVmb3JlIHRoZSB3ZWJzaXRl IGFuZCBEYXRhdHJhY2tlciBhcmUgdXBkYXRlZCB0byByZWZsZWN0IHRoaXMgZGVjaXNpb24uICBG dXJ0aGVyIGRldGFpbHMgYWJvdXQgdGhlIG9ubGluZSBtZWV0aW5nIHdpbGwgYmUgc2hhcmVkIGFz IHRoZXkgYmVjb21lIGF2YWlsYWJsZS4NCiAgICA+DQogICAgPg0KICAgID4gWzFdICBodHRwczov L3VybGRlZmVuc2UuY29tL3YzL19faHR0cHM6Ly9tYWlsYXJjaGl2ZS5pZXRmLm9yZy9hcmNoL21z Zy9pZXRmLWFubm91bmNlL083Zm1mSHpTZlItYi1RbHBCaENpdEQ0NWlPNC9fXzshIUNRbDNtY0hY MkEhV2Z4aF91cUZWakh0VmplZlZIQXlmbnJza1l1SnM2eXUtMWlCVE12WExQRUsxMmo1blc2Uk1G S1hieG00cnNwODJRRkxlM2YtJA0KICAgID4gWzJdICBodHRwczovL3VybGRlZmVuc2UuY29tL3Yz L19faHR0cHM6Ly9xbC50Yy9jN1RkOTVfXzshIUNRbDNtY0hYMkEhV2Z4aF91cUZWakh0VmplZlZI QXlmbnJza1l1SnM2eXUtMWlCVE12WExQRUsxMmo1blc2Uk1GS1hieG00cnNwODJaYTQ1MlRHJA0K ICAgID4NCiAgICA+IC0tDQogICAgPiBMYXJzIEVnZ2VydCwgSUVURiBDaGFpcg0KICAgID4gQ29s aW4gUGVya2lucywgSVJURiBDaGFpcg0KICAgID4gSmFzb24gTGl2aW5nb29kLCBJRVRGIExMQyBC b2FyZCBDaGFpcg0KICAgID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCiAgICA+IElFVEYtQW5ub3VuY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgPiBJRVRGLUFu bm91bmNlQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgPiBodHRwczovL3VybGRlZmVuc2UuY29tL3YzL19faHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWFubm91bmNlX187ISFDUWwzbWNI WDJBIVdmeGhfdXFGVmpIdFZqZWZWSEF5Zm5yc2tZdUpzNnl1LTFpQlRNdlhMUEVLMTJqNW5XNlJN RktYYnhtNHJzcDgyVFJfNHJ1ZCQNCg0KICAgIC0tDQogICAgLS0tDQogICAgdHRlQGNzLmZhdS5k ZQ0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 10 15:35:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3623A1F34 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IETF Administration LLC Board of Directors Chair To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <162863491305.28080.6452080953691310889@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:35:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Webinar reminder: IASA2 Retrospective Tomorrow X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:35:14 -0000 On 24 June 2021, the LLC posted to the blog about the IASA2 retrospective at https://www.ietf.org/blog/iasa2-retrospective-consultation-starts/. We said we would hold two webinars to conduct live Q&A, and the second one will be held tomorrow, 11 August. Please see dial-in details below or at https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/llc-board/meeting-info/. 11 August 2021 — 15:00 UTC [https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=ma12eab5ce47cabba3fba54411dd5d992] Meeting ID: 161 250 0110 | Password: iasa2 Jason Livingood Board Chair, IETF Administration LLC LLC-Board-Chair@ietf.org ++++++++++ How to Contact the IETF LLC ++++++++++ Executive Director: Exec-Director@ietf.org Sponsorship: sponsorship@ietf.org Board: LLC-Board@ietf.org ++++++++++ General IETF LLC Board Background ++++++++++ About the IETF LLC: https://www.ietf.org/about/administration/ Meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/llc-board/minutes/ Future meetings: https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/llc-board/meeting-info/ Financial statements: https://www.ietf.org/about/administration/financial-statements/ From nobody Wed Aug 11 16:31:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B60F3A2953; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPHCbiydkDXY; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81E8A3A2950; Wed, 11 Aug 2021 16:31:01 -0700 (PDT) From: IETF Executive Director Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:30:57 +1200 Message-Id: <609E8521-2DDC-4CE4-A0C2-09173CBC65BE@ietf.org> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Final report on IETF Community Survey 2021 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 23:31:08 -0000 The final report from the IETF Community Survey 2021 has now been = published [1] along with a blog post summarising the key findings [2]. = This report was the initially published in draft format for community = feedback [3] and the feedback has been incorporated into the final = report. [1] https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Community_Survey_2021.pdf=20= [2] https://www.ietf.org/blog/ietf-community-survey-2021/ [3] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/oVbkTo_5QmSf-8NVIqiNho= f0BTk/ --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org From nobody Thu Aug 12 03:13:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13EB3A40C0; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 03:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ys0tBA0ndD2F; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 03:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DE663A40BC; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 03:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imap.open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx3.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B0FF6A0DE; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:13:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1628763217; bh=3SwFinFAoXWC/KoWVNF/gXopg8YGfj8p+NWgpnCXlTA=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=e6a7VFICoSZxte0YiIOrfmaZsg4/I2XMhLDQEwgeAg+Dn5sZAhGx5/tZKIGoi3XSO rOManys0B/PC/dD465df54qZ4NR6WvAlNmKu2Zf9pyEQ0ZGdWRnJwg8vYASOGZ8pPK ILwxC2glJ6SzZQjzetg9DFCEwBaYxHZjRhqH91lih9EBWdbEiq9npVDILHITBcmaTS rScAwCForwSqhDTz84MKPRVg2fWNyeub3q1d+dT5+nfTJdc6nrOmsY/Jzivn3YZnWx 6RpNTtpFxx4YWQDRhCIeus3O7rAnfnM4MWP+qz3jYvzjgSbZIIAwZD3f1oY0pmHJ43 Tei/MtULFmZuw== Received: from appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com ([10.20.28.82]) by imap.open-xchange.com with ESMTPSA id O21oDlH0FGESIwAA3c6Kzw (envelope-from ); Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:13:37 +0200 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:13:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Vittorio Bertola To: "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , IETF Executive Director Message-ID: <1679896538.4690.1628763217171@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> In-Reply-To: <609E8521-2DDC-4CE4-A0C2-09173CBC65BE@ietf.org> References: <609E8521-2DDC-4CE4-A0C2-09173CBC65BE@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.5-Rev19 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Final report on IETF Community Survey 2021 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 10:13:50 -0000 > Il 12/08/2021 01:30 IETF Executive Director ha scritto: > > > The final report from the IETF Community Survey 2021 has now been published [1] along with a blog post summarising the key findings [2]. This report was the initially published in draft format for community feedback [3] and the feedback has been incorporated into the final report. Possibly I missed the draft for comments, but I think your interpretation of the Q5/Q20 questions about the use of English language is not fully on point. These questions show that almost all those who responded are very comfortable with English, independently from whether they only lurk or they actively participate. However, this does not imply that there are no people who are excluded from participating in the IETF because of language barriers, or that, as you conclude, "The two pillars of email and English have very strong support", because the people who could be interested in participating but do not do so because of poor English skills are very likely not to be among the respondents of the survey, or part of the community at all, not even as lurkers. That's not easily doable, but you should theoretically compare the average English skills of IETF participants with the average English skills of the global technical Internet community to see if language is acting as a self-selection factor. -- Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy From nobody Mon Aug 23 19:18:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E87F3A08B8 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=yp0FeHrn; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=LtGdx78J Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Eowtg9iWxAUt for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 682393A08C1 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 68820 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2021 02:18:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type; s=10cd1.612456f7.k2108; bh=8cQvZTioMX1uSm3YjoMiun3N/NnZpVsfUesztHdcEDA=; b=yp0FeHrnNeusCdIWNNh740s2s9XFKnKr3xlS1tH8/PCyPBBGxuweesYFks8LIlQXoQP/M+4H9DZ4cgTCTAt5L8R/SlrcxiLCx2nXaUIGRTNcM9j3kVoBLlyVTEbLsXmfTj+UAx0gfy0ucwuu4h7VbrD+Vmx2UT/mQ3CweEbqFo8/rqSs9njAPRx9trdsWjAw+DzStdvL6HK6u/ljJwxmKnbKZ9jB+cELdYB54ooVhJ7rQ2kKjiAgA/xgO/5sOkVzrXO/GkeXWCFObfkhA8InzCVGeiAtzY1xONlKoEn+3uxLB+KrAhakB0z5UCQx/7qhNqhRxhUyB0FPLglYpj3KSA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type; s=10cd1.612456f7.k2108; bh=8cQvZTioMX1uSm3YjoMiun3N/NnZpVsfUesztHdcEDA=; b=LtGdx78JSKRQfYEM9CKuETEYTWiNwo9AYOuLcblPiv9OvltIe3oWFi/jisxMpjJutrf6aoiy3UcifCeUgRbAWJzU2SB3ZrYamwV+QYXxNqXb9DtbYuATrgVsK/RyG2VNkWIa809NV34bxN+VNJbpwM4fBULjTiJHIqCzA2p2+hUA4Uxbi+9SLVAwyP4OYjhf91NZwojZdtzQFmeDSaRW9HHmoPwywwuy5VV1Iup4nROw1fSZEd9MuoOkMSBaKyfxQzd+B6EWzWQi33KEnl7DCq+hdUHxxVENVskOTgIkd2tro4x37d5iKrsKRSzlkQLBIZgmzJIuIAn/q8uWynS9Fw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 24 Aug 2021 02:18:30 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id DBA3C26B830F; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DF526B82F1; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: 23 Aug 2021 22:18:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" Reply-To: tlp-interest@ietf.org To: tlp-interest@ietf.org Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] A clerical correction to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions 5.0 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 02:18:42 -0000 The IETF Trust originally published the Trust Legal Provisions in 2008 and has updated it four times, most recently as TLP 5.0 published in 2015. The trustees recently noted a confusing clerical error in the TLP where it describes the license we offer on code components of RFCs and other IETF contributions. Over the years there have been several variations of the BSD license. The most common are the two-clause and three-clause versions. The license we use is is the three-clause BSD license, which is included in full in the TLP. That license is generally known as the Revised or Modified BSD license, while the two-clause license is known as the Simplified license. For reasons lost to history, the TLP 5.0 refers to its license as the Simplified license, even though it is really the Revised license. Oops. This name error has been copied into boilerplate in RFCs and I-Ds even though the license itself is correct. We plan to make clerical corrections to the TLP to change the name to Revised license in all the places where the name occurs, and to change a URL to link to the correct license at opensource.org. The license itself does not change, only the name used to refer to it. This Google doc shows the changes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FnlAk3gp8AWmwBzwhyr71MC2Jtd8rLYoJ3MVJTggfPw/edit?usp=sharing Since this update only corrects a mistake and makes no substantive change to the TLP or the licenses it grants, we plan to post this as a correction rather than as a new version of the TLP. Once we have done that we also plan to request changes to I-D and RFC boilerplate that use the wrong name, again, with no changes to the licenses themselves. If you have comments or questions, please follow up to tlp-interest@ietf.org. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Mon Aug 23 23:39:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B1F3A0CD4; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:39:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id umMrqck-y8g9; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C605D3A0CC8; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:1815:5480:b768:b865]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31BB7600370; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 09:38:56 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1629787137; bh=PVev6SzJ012PrZpTqBJ5abljU3ug8B+A0XkVQHLbwy0=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=flnJw9wCbHpMRFwrgIVvM/1d7truZKl8zs+8GlZpwq6rMCyyjmUTXSIP7rMi3YW1s yE1wf4rBLvbpf4kkxhs3wp7SgTEk17qFTnuPfGNq0in1QBJ0TxwvUY4zm67RHQ4dWY kH6Z8l4HI7k7bKAH/WUkB2sB+o7eve9Cjd7JADug= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <6F54A77A-963F-482A-BB21-A9FFF3167FB1@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7D6B2B46-7012-43EB-ABC6-3CFFD4FB5408"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 09:38:56 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: tlp-interest@ietf.org References: X-MailScanner-ID: 31BB7600370.A18BB X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] A clerical correction to the IETF Trust Legal Provisions 5.0 X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 06:39:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7D6B2B46-7012-43EB-ABC6-3CFFD4FB5408 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-8-24, at 5:18, John R Levine wrote: > We plan to make clerical corrections to the TLP to change the name to = Revised license in all the places where the name occurs, and to change a = URL to link to the correct license at opensource.org. The license = itself does not change, only the name used to refer to it. >=20 > This Google doc shows the changes: >=20 > = https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FnlAk3gp8AWmwBzwhyr71MC2Jtd8rLYoJ3MVJT= ggfPw/edit?usp=3Dsharing I don't see any highlighted changes in that document, and it also still = seems to talk about the Simplified BSD License - am I missing something? > Since this update only corrects a mistake and makes no substantive = change to the TLP or the licenses it grants, we plan to post this as a = correction rather than as a new version of the TLP. Once we have done = that we also plan to request changes to I-D and RFC boilerplate that use = the wrong name, again, with no changes to the licenses themselves. Would those changes to boilerplate text amount to anything more than = replacing "Simplified BSD License" with "Modified BSD license" in the = text below? Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Also, is there a plan to do anything about the ~3000 RFCs that were = published with this incorrect boilerplate text? Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_7D6B2B46-7012-43EB-ABC6-3CFFD4FB5408 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmEklAAACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfW8BAAnkLlNOWHtE/Ad8i5GMCa74UhHWlbrurhtyoftcR5IV4yVTA1Yb5yPN1Q /DNWy94jxm7IBxalekngv/ccxZSAeqMedIETDajLVJyDXvfki4NQRdFsQy4H6Gaa 9XhpGbBzAAQq5zph9xbebbOD/kNn5jS2fbLW1qppV2RO/qXCUlks55/IbTbPrx3P w6yUby9F16YeHCo5jon54kUuLkNW2SAPIALicl8+pvn/UVQh7oJRLmk+HCMDBLMx 8Uo9rr471pqq1L5j/bamPgy2sHC2kGF0lBN79t52qNXzKp09OpPek1D5Wzedp6i7 RdPCYNXtKE0MYomO7VxZlvWnsQrirXedB4it4l+gmN3vEGEwL13fWbPLKModuFmC BgaGvF+/tP4RngiDuqR7zdQkciiOydQ4Crq7+hf9TFBMTonQ9XSC7BlAFahx2fzq ftKRxFJ9TiTXpxzNxg+L8v7WmY/+9CYSMGBe9F6KBTedgQmdbR5ykvO7ZhSnNZR5 G5h6IUjZTFukiCHxrB/jrebN/b2+utqfsHn6baJtijded+IvvdQMKRQa59ksYo5A U6TawEixDck1wKvA0S4o17vaDNBR1V/Fi3DcbPUOvwb8HyRwamBNCuk+ikw1mAZ0 RxuSWf4JD2FATWh6LSdTN/RgBjZl0eH+zMm8aWMO7kUP59xQjTY= =mKOF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7D6B2B46-7012-43EB-ABC6-3CFFD4FB5408-- From nobody Sun Aug 29 20:58:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040213A0EB2; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:58:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wMnol6ywjwy8; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 039623A0EAD; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: IETF Executive Director Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:58:42 +1200 Message-Id: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 03:58:53 -0000 As a follow up to our recent consultation on the principle and plan for = managing COVID-impacted meetings [1], the IETF Administration LLC is = seeking further feedback on the financial aspsects of COVID-impact = meetings. # Background We are defining COVID-impacted meetings as IETF meetings held under two = conditions - Special requirements exists for travel and use of the venue, covering = vaccinations or test status, social distancing and personal protective = equipment. We recognise that this will vary from venue to venue, which = the plan previously consulted on addresses through a set of conditions. - There is a significantly lower level of onsite participation than = pre-COVID. We are budgeting at around 500 people onsite +/- 20% = depending on region and venue. Holding a COVID-impacted meeting means that our requirements for a venue = have changed and we either adjust an existing booking, or we book a new = venue more suitable. When we look at the impact on income of a COVID-impacted meeting, there = is a strong linear scaling effect: * Registration fees. For a pre-COVID meeting, only onsite participants = pay registration fees. * Sponsorships. We have yet to test out with sponsor how they perceive = the value of a COVID-impacted meeting and how they would affect their = comfort with returning to pre-COVID sponsorship fees. A possibly bigger = concern is if the host is able to sponsor an in-person meeting because = company policy forbids travel. =20 * Commissions/rebates/comps from the hotel(s). These are paid as a = percentage of room night purchased by meeting participants and so scale = down as the number of onsite participants scales down, though not quite = linearly as there is includes the rooms we pay for, for staff, = contractors and volunteers who make the meeting possible.=20 * Subvention funding (i.e. a payment from the local city/region to = encourage large meetings to be held there). These take a long time to = negotiate and are for a minimum number of onsite participants, and so do = not scale down without renegotiation. Conversely, when we look at costs there is much less elasticity: * Venue costs, breaks down into three main parts: * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as some might expect = - most venues cannot scale down our contracted space to 50% and provide = the same number of rooms just smaller.=20 * Food and Beverages. This scales but not linearly because a = proportion of the cost here is for staff, contractors, leadership and = volunteers. * A/V. This does not scale as we have the same number of sessions and = rooms in use. * Travel and expenses. The LLC covers travel, accommodation and = expenses for the Secretariat, LLC Staff, the RPC, some of the Tools = Team, NOC contractors, some NOC volunteers, and the RSE. Some come = because they are needed for the meeting to function and some come = because they need to interact with the community in order to do their = jobs. =20 * Meeting support is the Secretariat costs plus some additional local = charges. This is contractually set and primarily people costs and so = does not scale. It may even rise if we need to hire local resources to = supplement the Secretariat in the event that the normal number cannot = travel. * Network costs. This doesn=E2=80=99t scale much as we have the same = number of rooms to cover and the same set of services For planning purposes, we are working on the assumption that IETF 113, = 114 and 115 (all three 2022 meetings) will be COVID-impacted. # Proposals In order to hold COVID-impacted IETF meetings they must be financially = viable, and for that we make the following proposals around the = financial aspects of meetings. Most of these have previously been set = out in the conditional plan, but some are new or have more detail around = them. ## Part 1 - Income 1. Registrations fees We propose - the registration fee for onsite participation stays as it was = pre-COVID, though we retain the option to pass on any specific = COVID-related costs that should not be absorbed into the fee. =20 - to introduce a registration fee for remote participants at the same = rates as currently charged for fully online meetings as this is = necessary to ensure that we can go ahead. 2. Sponsorshop fees We propose that our sponsorship fees revert to the pre-COVID level as we = believe an onsite meeting with our enhanced remote participation = provides similar value to sponsors as it did pre-COVID. ## Part 2 - Costs 3. Venues and local contracts We propose to aim to renegotiate venues and local contracts to meet the = new requirements, including smaller numbers, and if that is not possible = then look at switching venues. 4. Travel and expenses We propose to make no changes to who is funded by the LLC to attend an = onsite IETF meeting, though we expect some natural attrition is likely = given that not everyone wishes to risk travel. This is because some are = essential to the functioning of the meetings (e.g. Secretariat, NOC) and = some are a valuable part of the meeting experience (e.g. RPC, Tools = Team). 5. Additonal sessions/facilities We propose to - defer the childcare until a later date - review the Codesprint and Hackathon space and expense requirements = with the organisers - review the newcomers events with the organisers - not provide a terminal room - continue with all other additonal sessions (It is out of scope for the LLC to consider changing the number of = WG/BoF sessions as that is a decision for the IESG) The IETF LLC now seeks feedback on these proposals. Please send any = feedback to admin-discuss@ietf.org by Sunday 26 September or direct to = me at exec-director@ietf.org. [1] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/O7fmfHzSfR-b-QlpBhCitD= 45iO4/ --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org= From nobody Sun Aug 29 21:14:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C72B3A11B2 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:14:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C91D0eRZUn0k for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84FE73A11AA for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id s12so23720397ljg.0 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:14:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dMgHjnAu6UtFIqL98PkzzH+dTStbRDbDyeEGpawzYqk=; b=P7ZoiIqSgywb2VVWxAT7YrsuisQOn1GVheIf/6wW3gWO2fiijt0XqlRXoj9lf+1EqK IpmBuTv95xiP+vFUGOY+nnINBtdvp0XNXxJOdo01psnoxxtZZ5tQU/d9y4CaxVi8tD0d FOs/rjsl3y1/7AGsHVshxs2LaHSnoEKGmfe9DHfgaM9bYN+3PaqREkAo48fDYZtMHI4E UdqUfXzDTy8EkNj7qS9rDzXWi5KmziTrRRB8+UZJZhM9cQOXiKu1CpxBsF3yQgxsfqMK e4z9c3rMfcE6jpUL2Q0trFNfZMAFvoF6uXVmerI5qRBO7fkpkolOLZBB64sBFkyjg4o2 7EZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dMgHjnAu6UtFIqL98PkzzH+dTStbRDbDyeEGpawzYqk=; b=CODCMpZ762pEN6UaL+v5F0v8TEUWCQEyp5H9gedSY6PjXa/dJjuh4l2+IjA3CxiwZZ voACFJRq7cXIbtiWeXHL4By5aRqZ/ZjtV21ytMuSX89bv0Dahx7C0HSpfgA3pFECKQMq Wh79p2tUNLLwMz6P3jbN++7t0wM2gEEGPscZRVw0AC+LbtPwR9c4mseBtGochm57iAH4 W6dLCk6Au46h5rqCju9XlAwFGF7qbMuDWCpVsjd+Jdy4AQxMD3o/KlXiy8kiKnF9N/Tp pKBIX+qNfp/zsAgynRHtvAnHG7OyzCieUvOMw4sxoS/R3lH4mxcw4CQ7+0aX2N2kPceW y/6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531HgYPUNhjSlvWGkCKlhFlFnFy5Z6jck7ntfqqwyEOYWcATmp18 PHjiv9mAxAMGvCMIfKvaxcsS3kuBnhliEO4wkmaMNIPE1IU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzD8Q8IplLnWdlszyBlRAyF49e7qS0YZ0TtyJFvm9eKspq2RWgdhrFokg+1GXhVC6fRlsIHPJQg5r+UPxKyLeI= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:83ca:: with SMTP id s10mr19369609ljh.58.1630296876887; Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:14:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: George Michaelson Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 14:14:26 +1000 Message-ID: To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 04:14:45 -0000 These seem workable proposals. They balance out cost saving with functionality, and do not encroach on the primary deliverable. The primary deliverable is document production. The costs to secondary deliverables like code sprint and hackathon are contained. Nothing stops other funding, or even ad-hoc organisation from taking place. Nothing here suggests that the IETF wouldn't be cooperative, if people did that. If its not actively harmful to the venue/bid process, this proposal is at the very least not preventing it. I regret that initiatives like the creche are being dropped but I think in the risk reduction sense, It is not that the IETF doesn't want to have a creche, its that the volume of need is going to be significantly reduced, because the individual risk assessment mitigates against bringing children to the meeting during this period. Of course, for some individuals there is a high risk of this being a barrier to entry. I don't have an answer, but I think its reasonable for the IETF to make a proposal and see how the community feels. I would personally support deciding to walk this one back and invest even at some significant cost, in providing this feature, if a critical mass of need emerges during the planning/registration process. Noting the proposals do not walk into WG need, I think the IETF as a whole might want to look at a belt-tightening exercise for WG. A "is your WG f2f really necessary" measure, but I suspect its unworkable: I am unsure which WG is going to volunteer not to meet, beyond the normal decisions not to meet, which are contained in the current capacity/need planning. There are mechanisms, such as creating artificial scarcity of some resource which becomes notional "money" for a WG to "spend" in meeting-time, and see which WG decide to spend their funds, or invest, or donate. (basically, I think the IESG should be encouraged to at least THINK about this, and I don't think its out of scope to say that, but then stop) From nobody Mon Aug 30 09:21:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6283A186B for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isc.org header.b=CZ47ujtu; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=isc.org header.b=QR8zpImN Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KJS5NJst3BHx for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 836413A1869 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbrang.isc.org (zimbrang.isc.org [149.20.1.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B25543AB025 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=isc.org; s=ostpay; t=1630340453; bh=EhB7kaEHSJvB1WeHaBfpD+tDafR4FJM3kN2qDTibJOo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=CZ47ujtueki165VE4xaFOd7bh3+kiJ3A3tKK5Wr546ZYZXzF+gQBFBwoFWiVp6shq Yl6fRtiCq/vNgczEt3pCvezhcqm8dfuUn64b/96LL3pz/mH7WBW5Px7DVanOMe0oa8 U/0hu2TWXWxc3qio5VswR2bPBYyoi1759g3JpnAo= Received: from zimbrang.isc.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbrang.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8868AA9B4E for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbrang.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78860AA9B53 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zimbrang.isc.org 78860AA9B53 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isc.org; s=05DFB016-56A2-11EB-AEC0-15368D323330; t=1630340453; bh=w3gVCfzA/jSqFWBnPjcyXsXqRAZ1We5x50AoPTALmcI=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=QR8zpImNeeN/SLT5F5PsKJ18T+CpoGm7mIOAJTJanp10Kq8ykhc6PD0lvh7cKyPCi 8YOE4217k99sRA96eKWuOE/dtfCEaL6ECfrJkf+oGWnvMtqdd4q+hq0CRaBMbUZhO3 SusYTtbJqt224dqtoWNHCwu2Vv0QjqloXSIFjhwY= Received: from zimbrang.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbrang.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id cKlfiBXI2Lou for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zimbrang.isc.org (zimbrang.isc.org [149.20.1.12]) by zimbrang.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6262DAA9B4E for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:20:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Jeff Osborn To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <1657860821.22457.1630340453103.JavaMail.zimbra@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [50.212.105.86] X-Mailer: Zimbra 9.0.0_GA_4110 (ZimbraWebClient - GC92 (Mac)/9.0.0_GA_4062) Thread-Index: vcA7CBeV8zssAM9R+Q4BcGjpJ2BtAQ== Thread-Topic: Feedback on COVID affected IETF meetings Archived-At: Subject: [admin-discuss] Feedback on COVID affected IETF meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:21:02 -0000 FWIW, I'm in favor of the proposed changes. I believe I can speak for most of ISC, which generally sends 6-10 staffers to each IETF in person. We intend to resume that practice to the degree it is practicable and allowed by the governments involved. Thanks for the difficult work on this. Jeff -- Jeff Osborn President Internet Systems Consortium PO Box 360 53 Main Street Newmarket, NH 03857 From nobody Mon Aug 30 09:37:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7528A3A18DA; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pX0xhfYtXiRD; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02C0E3A18D9; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 09:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF2338E38; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id SAvFYyf__nDs; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A3638E37; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FAD440; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:36:55 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IETF Executive Director wrote: > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as some might expect > - most venues cannot scale down our contracted space to 50% and provi= de > the same number of rooms just smaller. Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms required. Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim meetings, and use the common week time for things that need community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, plenary. This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmEtCRYACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUSUAgArjj+oJte7XKYpS+KUf6J/LMA7PdbWkojLO1TYF5tdDL4i/fNJxpZT/7/ zmSy6TwCJpgb9kuf5ZM9A5TVCp0Qqw5goP7M8ubM45tBMRrFSe/oE11DTCmtb+vX NrRycdlUKHwfvcHJGscP5dRBfRjYTEHbs27IckNTlcN4m6nMhmJ/GKeKLp2eNKLy OecbMX2oU9WmRdZL/j03oHy6Ps3QF7GlS3ENtTx6FqQHrmG+1rwRTXgYHcyeBDnN oi46A/5gPva0Gy4D9gxOysZ+AFvRdaWr8WFNbBzQZGbZ55Cn8XZZhJHDPt0GMbRi 4goe0FXipiY8ofpBn79OwbGn1jFuMw== =V8oJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Aug 30 15:30:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58373A2511; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:30:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Al-gNy001B6W; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 157EF3A2514; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id q68so14812439pga.9; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=c1kllnXuAzOaY7xIKDBr4I905gOIHmWG+7O4E9aV+Pg=; b=MoZhgnGK69WsckIJDb4invSNJlCiOq+eZneE53i4wFKhp7uU0/hwycilD2OyvTTUQv EbXbeDlhY5kfpeO+PcbRTqrz8CtAgi8fCMHoOsjyjh0HDrx4QjLbcv2tI/zvm1j5TCaY Zki6urnbkZM2W9TT8kNfp3rs++90HVTLDrUlK5l8q1xGtJjOjnin6zejYzpfG/QvTMGt kdmpGfS1oyhnbfLYFTjIIiGTaz066eJw4n1u2N/JX8oOwtLBdygAJ+9P+SHoCEGLEGTB 65NLEHIMhlKjx4bwtk3BkN46nwUB79jZmb95GFSpfS99k4EI7d3ww0Bnb09LVlmyFI5M uvEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c1kllnXuAzOaY7xIKDBr4I905gOIHmWG+7O4E9aV+Pg=; b=Cpe8OnXMf+7LOGx8TXQoP7X0onxhWbXjtadw8OoV4/2UmH+gozG/gfL/IwlneP8LOB foh8BlpltIhygl1qRElvLJs0uWNbe40Tm3h2yPb33ccbW7j161tqDmlB3xdgk/MhWN8m L0SMd40KyHyozTD2ZZImmZoj8ORyJUvOo80yc38fB506BwwKOe7xUJ/CgoL/q6+X8I5l nr1EnZRlUxT9NLkUS2+GAPbu67c74H6mYC725OXTTxcQ/wcZEM7KA6RKTYuh+qtCBPjn /0d7MtjyPPp/EOKRd3FMmkoX2kWlVTNYlhRswMehhu7PiM3urfH4lm0IVhfje+/2Fh7n PN6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533NhGhUCs0+EDCl5Qihvq9dI2t+TqABZTrezr1pNFBshUe5PvVX q5Txz5SGJpRICiw2rm7xh+dMC6/qU7DkAA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyLxScRcRux/rsAvzrRPp1vvEi3MRqSaqD/xJSj+gFj4FfZa0mGN9nRPMQA7SBWsyRf8iGrAw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:80d9:0:b029:2ed:49fa:6dc5 with SMTP id a25-20020aa780d90000b02902ed49fa6dc5mr25153792pfn.3.1630362594264; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:11d3:cf01:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:11d3:cf01:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t4sm15054907pfe.166.2021.08.30.15.29.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson , admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:29:49 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <346.1630341399@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 22:30:02 -0000 On 31-Aug-21 04:36, Michael Richardson wrote: > > IETF Executive Director wrote: > > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as some might expect > > - most venues cannot scale down our contracted space to 50% and provide > > the same number of rooms just smaller. > > Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms required. > > Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim meetings, and use the > common week time for things that need community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, > plenary. > > This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. Two realities don't seem to be popular in society as a whole: 1) After the pandemic, we'll be dealing with endemic COVI-19 in the community, so things will not be back to "normal" as understood in 2019 for many years. 2) For the next 50 years we'll be fending off climate change as best we can, which means that international travel will *never* be back to "normal" as understood in 2019. If not SHMOO, then somebody else needs to be preparing the IETF for these realities. I'm glad that the LLC is making a start. Brian From nobody Mon Aug 30 18:10:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C9B3A29E9; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:09:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYNwDlURGkVu; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE76B3A29E8; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1mKsHS-00088a-Du; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 21:09:38 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 21:09:32 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Brian E Carpenter , Michael Richardson , admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 01:09:48 -0000 --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 10:29 +1200 Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 31-Aug-21 04:36, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> IETF Executive Director wrote: >> > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as >> > some might expect - most venues cannot scale down our >> > contracted space to 50% and provide the same number of >> > rooms just smaller. >> >> Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms >> required. >> >> Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim >> meetings, and use the common week time for things that need >> community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, plenary. >> >> This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. > > Two realities don't seem to be popular in society as a whole: > > 1) After the pandemic, we'll be dealing with endemic COVI-19 > in the community, so things will not be back to "normal" as > understood in 2019 for many years. > > 2) For the next 50 years we'll be fending off climate change > as best we can, which means that international travel will > *never* be back to "normal" as understood in 2019. > > If not SHMOO, then somebody else needs to be preparing the > IETF for these realities. I'm glad that the LLC is making a > start. Brian, I agree with your analysis and conclusions. Even though some of us might have been much more optimistic about fewer years than you suggest some months ago, it seems clear that we are in for a long haul. On the other hand, even if, by some magic, we could now predict only a few morn years of "not normal" and several of us (I think including yourself) have been trying to engage on the question of meetings at a different scale and different constraints than either "normal" (a large majority of attendees in person with several remote) or "all online"). So, like you, I'm glad the LLC is making a start even though I believe it is somewhat overdue. However, I think Michael's comments, whether one agrees with him or not, open up more fundamental questions about how the IETF does standards and other important parts of our work. For example, we (or at least many of us) have believed for a long time that one of the IETF's strengths has been the ability to bring a broad range of perspectives to an issue rather than, e.g., having a small number of people from one industry sector and perspective come together and develop a specification that works for them but that might have problematic side effects on other protocols or practices that group may not have thought about (or care about). We try to formalize that process as cross-area review but I've observed that sometimes the most useful reviews and input of that type have been dependent on conversations in the halls or over meals; people dropping in on WG sessions because they are in the meeting facility anyway, have nothing else scheduled, and are curious; and, sometimes, individuals (sometimes WG Chairs or ADs, but often not) reaching out to others and saying "you know more about this topic than the WG whose work depends on it, could you have a look". My guess is that shifting toward lots of disconnected WG interims is going to be less effective at those connections and reviews than f2f meetings and that it may promote more decisions being made in those meetings with pro forma ratification on mailing lists rather than one the mailing lists and we have not discussed out to mitigate those problems (if we even think they are problems). And then there is the question of how we recruit newcomers and get them to the point of being productive in the IETF. Almost all of the questions of how we do those sorts of things in a rather different environment have financial/administrative implications. However, with no disrespect to the LLC, I'd be much happier if we were viewing them as "how does the IETF evolve to get its work done in a way that is as or more effective" with the IESG doing its "steering" job and the community figuring out what it wants from and what would be most efficient for the standards process. Certainly, there would need to be interactions with the LLC about what is and is not administratively or financially feasible, but I think we need to stop pretending these are short term problems to be dealt with on an emergency basis and start driving the decisions on the basis of what helps the IETF make the Internet better. best, john From nobody Mon Aug 30 20:09:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC783A2DCE; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:09:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VUlRbVv2i00X; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86D793A2DCB; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C010548042; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 05:09:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 608894400EF; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 05:09:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 05:09:20 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: John C Klensin Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Michael Richardson , admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210831030920.GI50345@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 03:09:38 -0000 +1 IMHO it would already help a lot if more IETF'er would hang out during IETF weeks more in gather.town to give opportunity to such informal hallway discussions. I thought shmoo recharter is already being looked into though. But see above: i don't think its about what we could at best do in SHMOO alone, its about community culture. In a prior employer, it was a lost cause to get engineers to have more informal online encounters (not to say meetings). Impossible. Wasn't in their culture. Of course, in other companies it was. So maybe its really up to chairs/ADs and other to ponder how to create a more creative/interactive online culture. IMHO gather.town is a great tool, but so could be sequential WG interrims - something smaller than a whole IETF but still allowing you to look beyond your normal work scope. Cheers Toerless On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 09:09:32PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 10:29 +1200 Brian E Carpenter > wrote: > > > On 31-Aug-21 04:36, Michael Richardson wrote: > >> > >> IETF Executive Director wrote: > >> > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as > >> > some might expect - most venues cannot scale down our > >> > contracted space to 50% and provide the same number of > >> > rooms just smaller. > >> > >> Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms > >> required. > >> > >> Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim > >> meetings, and use the common week time for things that need > >> community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, plenary. > >> > >> This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. > > > > Two realities don't seem to be popular in society as a whole: > > > > 1) After the pandemic, we'll be dealing with endemic COVI-19 > > in the community, so things will not be back to "normal" as > > understood in 2019 for many years. > > > > 2) For the next 50 years we'll be fending off climate change > > as best we can, which means that international travel will > > *never* be back to "normal" as understood in 2019. > > > > If not SHMOO, then somebody else needs to be preparing the > > IETF for these realities. I'm glad that the LLC is making a > > start. > > Brian, > > I agree with your analysis and conclusions. Even though some of > us might have been much more optimistic about fewer years than > you suggest some months ago, it seems clear that we are in for a > long haul. On the other hand, even if, by some magic, we could > now predict only a few morn years of "not normal" and several of > us (I think including yourself) have been trying to engage on > the question of meetings at a different scale and different > constraints than either "normal" (a large majority of attendees > in person with several remote) or "all online"). So, like you, > I'm glad the LLC is making a start even though I believe it is > somewhat overdue. > > However, I think Michael's comments, whether one agrees with him > or not, open up more fundamental questions about how the IETF > does standards and other important parts of our work. For > example, we (or at least many of us) have believed for a long > time that one of the IETF's strengths has been the ability to > bring a broad range of perspectives to an issue rather than, > e.g., having a small number of people from one industry sector > and perspective come together and develop a specification that > works for them but that might have problematic side effects on > other protocols or practices that group may not have thought > about (or care about). We try to formalize that process as > cross-area review but I've observed that sometimes the most > useful reviews and input of that type have been dependent on > conversations in the halls or over meals; people dropping in on > WG sessions because they are in the meeting facility anyway, > have nothing else scheduled, and are curious; and, sometimes, > individuals (sometimes WG Chairs or ADs, but often not) reaching > out to others and saying "you know more about this topic than > the WG whose work depends on it, could you have a look". My > guess is that shifting toward lots of disconnected WG interims > is going to be less effective at those connections and reviews > than f2f meetings and that it may promote more decisions being > made in those meetings with pro forma ratification on mailing > lists rather than one the mailing lists and we have not > discussed out to mitigate those problems (if we even think they > are problems). And then there is the question of how we recruit > newcomers and get them to the point of being productive in the > IETF. > > Almost all of the questions of how we do those sorts of things > in a rather different environment have financial/administrative > implications. However, with no disrespect to the LLC, I'd be > much happier if we were viewing them as "how does the IETF > evolve to get its work done in a way that is as or more > effective" with the IESG doing its "steering" job and the > community figuring out what it wants from and what would be most > efficient for the standards process. Certainly, there would > need to be interactions with the LLC about what is and is not > administratively or financially feasible, but I think we need to > stop pretending these are short term problems to be dealt with > on an emergency basis and start driving the decisions on the > basis of what helps the IETF make the Internet better. > > best, > john > > _______________________________________________ > Manycouches mailing list > Manycouches@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Aug 30 20:30:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37EF3A2E6B; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:30:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dyQ0uiwaWohX; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346743A2E6A; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4GzCPX0j7cz6G9vp; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1630380624; bh=biVmBfrBz4P50xiIphlokvDG2z2zLA5viJfGnkyYrpc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=bHdKlQc60XSu3XPOztuh8ZBD93jOogp/ZptfNtfNyt36RDGIYmEXqTTfgLAq08tgA cBKzX95oP+kNpOOfXpGFi/tZaJDI5tw62jKsjfz6Wc1G1LSy8QoO73WOkoAce+sODJ RqPgIudaxs2Shxm3DThvRvUaDBXES9iSWS//gvhI= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.23.64] (50-233-136-230-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GzCPW2MQ0z6G9rg; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:30:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Toerless Eckert Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <20210831030920.GI50345@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 23:30:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210831030920.GI50345@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 03:30:31 -0000 WHile I more than agree that inter-personal socialization is necessary for makign the IETF work, the several times I tried gather.town, I could not make it effective. I had one useful conversation with someone I did not know (who was very good at communicating what he was there for). And many short conversations that did not even really reinforce much less build relationships. While I applaud the effort with gather.town, I think it is important to understand that the environment as a whole is not yet in a position to replace the benefits of face-to-face meetings, lunches, dinners, snack conversations, etc. Yours, Joel On 8/30/2021 11:09 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > +1 > > IMHO it would already help a lot if more IETF'er would hang > out during IETF weeks more in gather.town to give opportunity > to such informal hallway discussions. > > I thought shmoo recharter is already being looked into though. > But see above: i don't think its about what we could at best > do in SHMOO alone, its about community culture. > > In a prior employer, it was a lost cause to get engineers to > have more informal online encounters (not to say meetings). > Impossible. Wasn't in their culture. Of course, in other > companies it was. So maybe its really up to chairs/ADs and > other to ponder how to create a more creative/interactive > online culture. IMHO gather.town is a great tool, but so > could be sequential WG interrims - something smaller than > a whole IETF but still allowing you to look beyond your normal > work scope. > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 09:09:32PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: >> >> >> --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 10:29 +1200 Brian E Carpenter >> wrote: >> >>> On 31-Aug-21 04:36, Michael Richardson wrote: >>>> >>>> IETF Executive Director wrote: >>>> > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as >>>> > some might expect - most venues cannot scale down our >>>> > contracted space to 50% and provide the same number of >>>> > rooms just smaller. >>>> >>>> Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms >>>> required. >>>> >>>> Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim >>>> meetings, and use the common week time for things that need >>>> community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, plenary. >>>> >>>> This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. >>> >>> Two realities don't seem to be popular in society as a whole: >>> >>> 1) After the pandemic, we'll be dealing with endemic COVI-19 >>> in the community, so things will not be back to "normal" as >>> understood in 2019 for many years. >>> >>> 2) For the next 50 years we'll be fending off climate change >>> as best we can, which means that international travel will >>> *never* be back to "normal" as understood in 2019. >>> >>> If not SHMOO, then somebody else needs to be preparing the >>> IETF for these realities. I'm glad that the LLC is making a >>> start. >> >> Brian, >> >> I agree with your analysis and conclusions. Even though some of >> us might have been much more optimistic about fewer years than >> you suggest some months ago, it seems clear that we are in for a >> long haul. On the other hand, even if, by some magic, we could >> now predict only a few morn years of "not normal" and several of >> us (I think including yourself) have been trying to engage on >> the question of meetings at a different scale and different >> constraints than either "normal" (a large majority of attendees >> in person with several remote) or "all online"). So, like you, >> I'm glad the LLC is making a start even though I believe it is >> somewhat overdue. >> >> However, I think Michael's comments, whether one agrees with him >> or not, open up more fundamental questions about how the IETF >> does standards and other important parts of our work. For >> example, we (or at least many of us) have believed for a long >> time that one of the IETF's strengths has been the ability to >> bring a broad range of perspectives to an issue rather than, >> e.g., having a small number of people from one industry sector >> and perspective come together and develop a specification that >> works for them but that might have problematic side effects on >> other protocols or practices that group may not have thought >> about (or care about). We try to formalize that process as >> cross-area review but I've observed that sometimes the most >> useful reviews and input of that type have been dependent on >> conversations in the halls or over meals; people dropping in on >> WG sessions because they are in the meeting facility anyway, >> have nothing else scheduled, and are curious; and, sometimes, >> individuals (sometimes WG Chairs or ADs, but often not) reaching >> out to others and saying "you know more about this topic than >> the WG whose work depends on it, could you have a look". My >> guess is that shifting toward lots of disconnected WG interims >> is going to be less effective at those connections and reviews >> than f2f meetings and that it may promote more decisions being >> made in those meetings with pro forma ratification on mailing >> lists rather than one the mailing lists and we have not >> discussed out to mitigate those problems (if we even think they >> are problems). And then there is the question of how we recruit >> newcomers and get them to the point of being productive in the >> IETF. >> >> Almost all of the questions of how we do those sorts of things >> in a rather different environment have financial/administrative >> implications. However, with no disrespect to the LLC, I'd be >> much happier if we were viewing them as "how does the IETF >> evolve to get its work done in a way that is as or more >> effective" with the IESG doing its "steering" job and the >> community figuring out what it wants from and what would be most >> efficient for the standards process. Certainly, there would >> need to be interactions with the LLC about what is and is not >> administratively or financially feasible, but I think we need to >> stop pretending these are short term problems to be dealt with >> on an emergency basis and start driving the decisions on the >> basis of what helps the IETF make the Internet better. >> >> best, >> john >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Manycouches mailing list >> Manycouches@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches > From nobody Mon Aug 30 22:19:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6983A3211; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 22:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3hadBUgZjkE; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 22:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E5BC3A320E; Mon, 30 Aug 2021 22:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F9D548019; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:18:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 4267D4400EF; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:18:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:18:57 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210831051857.GK50345@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <20210831030920.GI50345@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 05:19:16 -0000 Give it time and use the video in it as well. It can grow on you. Yes, relationship building remotely is a lot more difficult and net more time consuming. If you compare the brut time investment of travel it may look less bad though. On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 11:30:21PM -0400, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > WHile I more than agree that inter-personal socialization is necessary for > makign the IETF work, the several times I tried gather.town, I could not > make it effective. I had one useful conversation with someone I did not > know (who was very good at communicating what he was there for). And many > short conversations that did not even really reinforce much less build > relationships. > > While I applaud the effort with gather.town, I think it is important to > understand that the environment as a whole is not yet in a position to > replace the benefits of face-to-face meetings, lunches, dinners, snack > conversations, etc. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 8/30/2021 11:09 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > +1 > > > > IMHO it would already help a lot if more IETF'er would hang > > out during IETF weeks more in gather.town to give opportunity > > to such informal hallway discussions. > > > > I thought shmoo recharter is already being looked into though. > > But see above: i don't think its about what we could at best > > do in SHMOO alone, its about community culture. > > > > In a prior employer, it was a lost cause to get engineers to > > have more informal online encounters (not to say meetings). > > Impossible. Wasn't in their culture. Of course, in other > > companies it was. So maybe its really up to chairs/ADs and > > other to ponder how to create a more creative/interactive > > online culture. IMHO gather.town is a great tool, but so > > could be sequential WG interrims - something smaller than > > a whole IETF but still allowing you to look beyond your normal > > work scope. > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 09:09:32PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > > > > > > > > > --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 10:29 +1200 Brian E Carpenter > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On 31-Aug-21 04:36, Michael Richardson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > IETF Executive Director wrote: > > > > > > * Space. Venue meeting spaces are not as flexible as > > > > > > some might expect - most venues cannot scale down our > > > > > > contracted space to 50% and provide the same number of > > > > > > rooms just smaller. > > > > > > > > > > Having fewer parallel tracks can reduce the number of rooms > > > > > required. > > > > > > > > > > Doing that requires that we have more virtual interim > > > > > meetings, and use the common week time for things that need > > > > > community input: *DISPATCH, BOFs, plenary. > > > > > > > > > > This hasn't been a popular idea in SHMOO. > > > > > > > > Two realities don't seem to be popular in society as a whole: > > > > > > > > 1) After the pandemic, we'll be dealing with endemic COVI-19 > > > > in the community, so things will not be back to "normal" as > > > > understood in 2019 for many years. > > > > > > > > 2) For the next 50 years we'll be fending off climate change > > > > as best we can, which means that international travel will > > > > *never* be back to "normal" as understood in 2019. > > > > > > > > If not SHMOO, then somebody else needs to be preparing the > > > > IETF for these realities. I'm glad that the LLC is making a > > > > start. > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > I agree with your analysis and conclusions. Even though some of > > > us might have been much more optimistic about fewer years than > > > you suggest some months ago, it seems clear that we are in for a > > > long haul. On the other hand, even if, by some magic, we could > > > now predict only a few morn years of "not normal" and several of > > > us (I think including yourself) have been trying to engage on > > > the question of meetings at a different scale and different > > > constraints than either "normal" (a large majority of attendees > > > in person with several remote) or "all online"). So, like you, > > > I'm glad the LLC is making a start even though I believe it is > > > somewhat overdue. > > > > > > However, I think Michael's comments, whether one agrees with him > > > or not, open up more fundamental questions about how the IETF > > > does standards and other important parts of our work. For > > > example, we (or at least many of us) have believed for a long > > > time that one of the IETF's strengths has been the ability to > > > bring a broad range of perspectives to an issue rather than, > > > e.g., having a small number of people from one industry sector > > > and perspective come together and develop a specification that > > > works for them but that might have problematic side effects on > > > other protocols or practices that group may not have thought > > > about (or care about). We try to formalize that process as > > > cross-area review but I've observed that sometimes the most > > > useful reviews and input of that type have been dependent on > > > conversations in the halls or over meals; people dropping in on > > > WG sessions because they are in the meeting facility anyway, > > > have nothing else scheduled, and are curious; and, sometimes, > > > individuals (sometimes WG Chairs or ADs, but often not) reaching > > > out to others and saying "you know more about this topic than > > > the WG whose work depends on it, could you have a look". My > > > guess is that shifting toward lots of disconnected WG interims > > > is going to be less effective at those connections and reviews > > > than f2f meetings and that it may promote more decisions being > > > made in those meetings with pro forma ratification on mailing > > > lists rather than one the mailing lists and we have not > > > discussed out to mitigate those problems (if we even think they > > > are problems). And then there is the question of how we recruit > > > newcomers and get them to the point of being productive in the > > > IETF. > > > > > > Almost all of the questions of how we do those sorts of things > > > in a rather different environment have financial/administrative > > > implications. However, with no disrespect to the LLC, I'd be > > > much happier if we were viewing them as "how does the IETF > > > evolve to get its work done in a way that is as or more > > > effective" with the IESG doing its "steering" job and the > > > community figuring out what it wants from and what would be most > > > efficient for the standards process. Certainly, there would > > > need to be interactions with the LLC about what is and is not > > > administratively or financially feasible, but I think we need to > > > stop pretending these are short term problems to be dealt with > > > on an emergency basis and start driving the decisions on the > > > basis of what helps the IETF make the Internet better. > > > > > > best, > > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Manycouches mailing list > > > Manycouches@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Aug 31 06:16:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892053A145C; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:16:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KzULT4K2BJpd; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.145.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBCB3A1453; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0156892.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 17VDAk1O016691; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=Wxn3dIZjlSH2MniufLWAtC2N50UntakO/1RFpZ0GdJE=; b=z34tQJlTtMK+vH/Y8Z2JNnE8GL4eW2Q0YwUuL7i6jqOK4jT7UBnhYKqRzjzQXv3oU5gg lM1M35mH7DvrSYoRWJTb/UwNBBjup3ydpKXWAkQ09U1pXHryYGc7Z/uJECy3Klvdyrop cvcETyLWKWFMdH2hxhvhvWzM8bbVGKi/ONzpah+va4sNeIemT0HjKcteXofq9yE7/SGv 87zyGg2nZ05ptOFBiFnKRhxfFLRDRPnOXeE1/KPdJrpfOeljndaqT2CKiLXUfTi/EqHp lfoMxt5ehJN5oF47DSxAJootijIjEn1y3h+5SUM04zsZMKigNY60VnSYn77/x5jrZZNe zw== Received: from pacdcexop05.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-wc-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.136]) by mx0a-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3arscumagf-13 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:53 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.148) by PACDCEXOP05.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:50 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXEDGE01.cable.comcast.com (76.96.78.71) by PACDCEXOP01.cable.comcast.com (24.40.1.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:50 -0400 Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.57.42) by webmail.comcast.com (76.96.78.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:15:50 -0400 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f3::22) by MN2PR11MB4696.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:26d::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.18; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:15:48 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4d43:fdde:c427:c92d]) by MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4d43:fdde:c427:c92d%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4457.024; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:15:48 +0000 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings Thread-Index: AQHXnb1EOA/ov4jnu0Ch2YBUn77rU6uMoZuAgAAsoACAAIfbgA== Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:15:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.52.21080801 authentication-results: jck.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jck.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 987ab424-3385-4fd5-d6fe-08d96c8172ea x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4696: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: H2neLNjRizsMRMIgrLLTPU+GTngr5gu8HiTYK7lpybTtBZmaQFvXPsA3mdWhc71ydgrnCn/RqzafHuSWSYX51ete/DYyFTsdbeFX7jntqeg9iQX/PnpMsbUa5HankG6j1AZSuzimyYwoDpitTqkC70+Cof1b3IN0EFRSoI3UMY1a3rKIooRomRCwUFeizH9Hyx7pBwKdfcvXcVijTdn4vKImw/4sLXvmRi60DmREFMfpdJ+009Yn8JcqYWih7a4YXZhsySGcZ82/9o7Reh/91j2E7u8rdSSEGYwKXYZcqkcbJJ9NwJc6qbXzf+py5iRrIx96xv++BrVTZOcYHFJ3s8DZ1CrTFUKeamXRrzp61LowjQFFc1GwW/DRceV27MFI8hN0xtfALcHMF2aDOuXsM7Q6LEhlQKLSwa3OJCHKUSmXfCys3fEOz9f9A6sT3mC5Ux4RJpavr6w7ej0Av02IU8J10ZfHTac+Xm+mi26s9U8j1r/F4SPwkGSjq0Gz4duHUqOigDmEOqzFPC1ErybkCcbJnf9VMpC0Z4KrLvUh7XggEIQi752sTpJ5Alg7cO+mrnW42sKVRWTpRmOrnHBgQnR3uAItCqSPk7EWu10NgBhNyd/F//SkeaATuHl2f224h9yWd9x3zSE58uqQXLRzLSRcA/JA80488K0n0J9A8zqBUpVROx/H2Z9TMhtag9Ur8eeKtx+/Sy1MQHcFpM4LntXciCBIWUnFKbOIAlk0+94wpz7cQf2sXArW36CtvA4r x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(84050400002)(6486002)(86362001)(5660300002)(66476007)(122000001)(64756008)(76116006)(66946007)(38100700002)(508600001)(6512007)(2906002)(66574015)(186003)(66446008)(33656002)(66556008)(8676002)(38070700005)(110136005)(316002)(6506007)(2616005)(53546011)(71200400001)(8936002)(83380400001)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?eThnNi9oS3N0Nm0vaDZBenhJMFpiUHBORWFXRDdsZEZma2VnT0NYS2s5b1NU?= =?utf-8?B?QzhPNjFnS1V6NmhaWFk1b3NaZkdSMjNaaituSEthYjhTSmxFMm9sc3NwNGRJ?= =?utf-8?B?WmVGSGREVHd4b0RIMnFmQ0xaNWpkanZPeE9CcUh0bTVHMHBrd3hHVVlmQnI3?= =?utf-8?B?TmorUExPemUwbGZrbEd2QmNQRkoybFFxWThCRlE5SEZSVkxQN2NaUlVET0E2?= =?utf-8?B?cDhoUUUwRDFnVEZaL3ZUaE5pL0RXK1RuR3BJYTN0UGlUT3N2c0RGVW9WMEhI?= =?utf-8?B?T25pWWtRRVlLdytLUFdlaWM2WXdWR0d0Vm10YS9mRXF3ekNUays5S3FLbk8x?= =?utf-8?B?QjBYK0JHbFRjb3ZOczZFaHU2MWRkZXFpRDNyektTZkNuYnJweTl5Rm54aTNC?= =?utf-8?B?cVpoQU5Deno4OVlON2x2RFIweko0NFg1U1RteWNUdjJWN0ZjU2hMVEFMWUs4?= =?utf-8?B?ODA3Y2Fpd2xpTjh2V1p1aDVUYnk0THU0VEhRU3NwTG1QaDN1N0FFcmVJTXUz?= =?utf-8?B?SThYdHIyTXRYSnRBaWw5ME1sMmlKRVZhaGpQQWFvYm8rUVlheWFVZFFORW9C?= =?utf-8?B?WVQ4UUJKZFVnTHF6bFpqTjZBSHRSRDMwbERFR0hTYW9XMTUwWUNhNkRWR3RQ?= =?utf-8?B?QWJlOXhoQ0pmVkM0L0UxSXNXRmVJVXhjcGl2L0c2K3BiV1A3RlF0NmRKTnlN?= =?utf-8?B?Ti8xTWhCNGdRSXJEY2d4bnV5dUZ2OHdpSmJCNXVxQWxSS1ZXZno0NVZYTGFa?= =?utf-8?B?eGtSWVI4ZmRxRlR4MVVlSnJ6SXhSUTR1OHJKYzU5S2o4cVFmblFRVlZkMXU5?= =?utf-8?B?VFUxbjRTTE45SHM3eWYwWHZMeWNXY2tEWWVUSXp4b2ttVC9zY1oxYVA1MThE?= =?utf-8?B?aEluMTRucjJhV3dHUkdvOFI1TlV4M0dEbjk3djZTNU1jSE9VRmdyVEU5ODdQ?= =?utf-8?B?WUF3SUxEVmR4YlJoZ0VOQzJIejZQT2hHQ3hLeXVVVjhRUnM2bmZGZVhsc3RR?= =?utf-8?B?bk1Kc1l4UG9uQnZrSVdDRGRxM21oTXVBc0JaMzJvZ2ZUbFNDSlo2OTJOYkl1?= =?utf-8?B?QnJpOXhxOCt6eFZWbWZZaVRqYmRGZXFCK3FRMlRVZnE4THlwZzVMcEl1N1pv?= =?utf-8?B?cDlFZnI4aUlvSHNmOGdZTHBYaitYaFo0VUw4dzBaZDg2amEyK1BTNGlBN05M?= =?utf-8?B?eTlYS1k2NGkxcjV0QTZySWpZcXNKU3ExcGlIdlB1eWhtR3ZzbzUyVGcrbzFr?= =?utf-8?B?d3k0bW5BUEJrM1UydUwrNDNvWlREUStSd0oxbk0wdGdacjhpdXN5enF6MXRO?= =?utf-8?B?bHhtSmxNVHpUNno1Y0NjMFpETUgvNFl3bGdiMEx0cWFMMFpTdnhuVEpkNCtt?= =?utf-8?B?YmNxckg1YWFpTG1DNWp3SE5kZFJidkUxWnNVKzl1T1VuR1loNUJWb0NJK0gv?= =?utf-8?B?OGJGWWNYWXAvMHYzM3J0M1pkcDRJQy8xc2g1ZWVsUDlyeFNyV2xoaUdYS2xz?= =?utf-8?B?c3ZFWDM1OGpEUjkraFRCbE9PMGs1aGhnc24vTEp0Ny9sbUVmOXdqWEhySmNu?= =?utf-8?B?WTlWY0pkTHIvdFlkSUZCSE9OOXU2U1czZzZ1RDdhMkg5TTRFYzdNbUZlMGdV?= =?utf-8?B?eExjOUtSODVKME1UeEhIcGRta0l5OFFOdWV3RzU1TFNUU2NkTXdFaklvd1Ux?= =?utf-8?B?WHIrNkJ4K1NsTjB2alE0YWxHeFdSSG5RcHNJbFVoaWh5WFJGQnFnOHBSaDNP?= =?utf-8?B?ZXFyNVNzOUoxU0tvMitBSFl4R1JpL2ZUeHUzZWoydEZnYldtK0V2UHZ2TmNk?= =?utf-8?B?ZHU4Yms3VnlmSWpoUjg3dFZ5VlMxdWZoMzJmVGxaMFBmUDlOSHg4R1VEekJa?= =?utf-8?Q?Tj2PXy6FfQAwE?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=lz6RLD8UV98EezOKxG72fTxbzIhF8SzosUWjTZHK1i/1KRhBhFhNpA5TlxtzPgLtPxyxRnDC/4zhPXSdp7P8/cyZCD7Baku/8oHh1O5TL5JWU5b5GofbyELeYRJdmdz5om81iJipRkVVr8/AtLfA1+2Ri+9DJ/JxSNcOw92ac3pQoAZQ2C6M185cAZZj9Q+EwsXXWjAWBqpwZ5LXjX68WvvUrB/k9QmIm25ykBQYl6Wj5gDQ55S74hIURNklLKtyJ2IUJkPu9qBS7E4u4Au9HcLiYQhvvavp7WI8o1vnNJgfZfO89dcOXzAaMJzwNtrdkw+F3l9NAG7OmKveMjW2UQ== arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=3jvsc1XnGyd8FxTA8N6k9+8DMLCR6YTxjjfHRkvG8T4=; b=VsVCKc8/vyh4SYcujEgFtxXmIqfWuhTz3T1ZjLjKn57FSPcsm42qfCeMdxeyp8niqPimp9uzd/nZYn0Z8DwLyINbDMI66DcxBC1Ty7D9NPBZH/19IgbdyIfLqShT7eUgEFut+81YK7v7uv8MZFCPZg2QzeBv96AuMhFzQooaKcSzeyRAp0WH6b0556WP9fpVrXMaHtXccJ/x6ElVVp8u3o/YO+QmLlMD2swAMkOj7ZJK/3YMBF95pIOsQrHXy/TXl3l/ct9cyOYDgYFSeyEhFXwLNaqdQSxCGj4Qw3BWLidAm9KArVPQMLuphKXQ/DlSyqwoZi+nbWncKhT8b04WmQ== arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB3709.namprd11.prod.outlook.com x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 987ab424-3385-4fd5-d6fe-08d96c8172ea x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2021 13:15:48.2480 (UTC) x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: 7p8hAlk3BlDwcqX6FpcEfifHVyOKtpz6zBAxHvu2wsr8EdYx+iFKFT0VsvT42qRdnPfG3AS2Uima5p+ACWIgRKjWfqxzDKdW0rHi4PJ+NYA= x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB4696 x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <58DBE75BF6AD934480EE89E990BA33D0@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWQ X-Proofpoint-GUID: u2hpDm-ixWMPBdjf-zxK2UVycrZy7GSq X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: u2hpDm-ixWMPBdjf-zxK2UVycrZy7GSq X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-31_05:2021-08-31, 2021-08-31 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:16:01 -0000 T24gOC8zMC8yMSwgMjE6MTAsICJNYW55Y291Y2hlcyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgSm9obiBDIEtsZW5z aW4iIDxtYW55Y291Y2hlcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBqb2huLWlldGZA amNrLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhvd2V2ZXIsIHdpdGggbm8gZGlzcmVzcGVjdCB0byB0aGUgTExD LCBJJ2QgYmUNCiAgICBtdWNoIGhhcHBpZXIgaWYgd2Ugd2VyZSB2aWV3aW5nIHRoZW0gYXMgImhv dyBkb2VzIHRoZSBJRVRGDQogICAgZXZvbHZlIHRvIGdldCBpdHMgd29yayBkb25lIGluIGEgd2F5 IHRoYXQgaXMgYXMgb3IgbW9yZQ0KICAgIGVmZmVjdGl2ZSIgd2l0aCB0aGUgSUVTRyBkb2luZyBp dHMgInN0ZWVyaW5nIiBqb2IgYW5kIHRoZQ0KICAgIGNvbW11bml0eSBmaWd1cmluZyBvdXQgd2hh dCBpdCB3YW50cyBmcm9tIGFuZCB3aGF0IHdvdWxkIGJlIG1vc3QNCiAgICBlZmZpY2llbnQgZm9y IHRoZSBzdGFuZGFyZHMgcHJvY2Vzcy4gIENlcnRhaW5seSwgdGhlcmUgd291bGQNCiAgICBuZWVk IHRvIGJlIGludGVyYWN0aW9ucyB3aXRoIHRoZSBMTEMgYWJvdXQgd2hhdCBpcyBhbmQgaXMgbm90 DQogICAgYWRtaW5pc3RyYXRpdmVseSBvciBmaW5hbmNpYWxseSBmZWFzaWJsZSwgYnV0IEkgdGhp bmsgd2UgbmVlZCB0bw0KICAgIHN0b3AgcHJldGVuZGluZyB0aGVzZSBhcmUgc2hvcnQgdGVybSBw cm9ibGVtcyB0byBiZSBkZWFsdCB3aXRoDQogICAgb24gYW4gZW1lcmdlbmN5IGJhc2lzIGFuZCBz dGFydCBkcml2aW5nIHRoZSBkZWNpc2lvbnMgb24gdGhlDQogICAgYmFzaXMgb2Ygd2hhdCBoZWxw cyB0aGUgSUVURiBtYWtlIHRoZSBJbnRlcm5ldCBiZXR0ZXIuDQoNCltKTF0gVGhpcyBpcyBhIGdv b2QgcG9pbnQgYW5kIGl0IHNlZW1zIGxpa2UgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgdmVyeSBwaXZvdCBwb2ludCB3 ZSBpbiB0aGUgY29tbXVuaXR5IG5vdyBmYWNlLiBUaGUgQ09WSUQgcGFuZGVtaWMgd2lsbCBub3Qg bWFnaWNhbGx5IGdvIGF3YXkgc28gaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBmb2N1c2luZyBvbiBsb29raW5nIGFoZWFk IGluIDQtbW9udGggaW5jcmVtZW50cyB3aGlsZSBob3BpbmcgdGhlIGdsb2JhbCBoZWFsdGggc2l0 dWF0aW9uIG1heSB0YWtlIGEgdHVybiBmb3IgdGhlIGJldHRlciwgaXQgaXMgdGltZSB0byBsb29r IGF0IGJpdCBvdmVyIHRoZSBob3Jpem9uLiBJIHN1c3BlY3QgdGhlcmUncyBjb25zZW5zdXMgb24g dGhhdC4gVGhpbmtpbmcgb2YgdGhlIGxvbmctdGVybSB3aGF0J3MgbmV4dCBxdWVzdGlvbiB3aWxs IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IHJlcXVpcmUgdGhlIGVuZ2FnZW1lbnQgb2YgYWxsIG9mIHRoZSBrZXkgbGVh ZGVyc2hpcCBncm91cHMgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgYW5kIHRoZSBjb21tdW5pdHkgYXMgYSB3aG9sZSAo ZXNwZWNpYWxseSBTSE1PTykgJiB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gcXVpY2sgb3IgZWFzeSBhbnN3ZXJzLiBU aGF0IHNhaWQsIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgZG8ga25vdyBlbm91Z2ggdGhhdCBvdXIgZmlyc3QgbWVldGlu ZyB0byBoYXZlIHNvbWUgaW4tcGVyc29uIGF0dGVuZGFuY2Ugd2lsbCBsaWtlbHkgaW52b2x2ZSBh IHNtYWxsZXIgbnVtYmVyIG9mIGluLXBlcnNvbiBhdHRlbmRlZXMgdGhhbiBwcmUtQ09WSUQsIGFu ZCB0aGF0IGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgYSBoeWJyaWQgb2YgaW4tcGVyc29uIGFuZCBvbmxpbmUsIHdoaWNo IGlzIHdoYXQgSmF5IGlzICh0YWN0aWNhbGx5KSBmb2N1c2VkIG9uIHJpZ2h0IG5vdyB3aXRoIHRo aXMgY29uc3VsdGF0aW9uIChzaW5jZSBpdCB3aWxsIHJlcXVpcmUgdmVudWUgbmVnb3RpYXRpb25z LCBldGMuKS4NCg0KW0pMXSBGcm9tIGEgcGVyc29uYWwgcGVyc3BlY3RpdmUsIG1heWJlIHdlICh0 aGUgY29tbXVuaXR5IHdyaXQgbGFyZ2UpIGhhdmUgYW4gb3Bwb3J0dW5pdHkgZm9yIGEgc29ydCBv ZiBpZGVhbGl6ZWQgcmVkZXNpZ24gcHJvY2VzcyAtIGNsZWFuIHNoZWV0IC0gYW5kIGFza2luZyBp ZiB3ZSBlc3RhYmxpc2hlZCBhIG5ldyBTRE8gbm93IHdoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgdGhlIG1vc3QgZWZm ZWN0aXZlIGFuZCBlZmZpY2llbnQgd2F5cyBvZiBtZWV0aW5nIGFuZCBjb2xsYWJvcmF0aW5nIHN5 bmNocm9ub3VzbHkgJiBhc3luY2hyb25vdXNseS4gQSBsb3Qgb2Ygd2hhdCB3ZSBkbyB3b3JrcyB3 ZWxsIGluIGFuIGFzeW5jaCBtb2RlbCwgZXNwZWNpYWxseSBnaXZlbiB3ZSBjb3ZlciBhbGwgdGlt ZSB6b25lcy4gQXQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZSwgcGVyaW9kaWMgZjJmIGlzIGdvb2QgZm9yIHJlbGF0 aW9uc2hpcCBidWlsZGluZyAmIHRydXN0IGJ1aWxkaW5nLiBPbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgaGFuZCwgb25s aW5lIG1lZXRpbmdzIChsYXJnZSBvciBzbWFsbCkgaGF2ZSB0aGUgb3Bwb3J0dW5pdHkgdG8gYnJv YWRlbiBlbmdhZ2VtZW50IGFuZCBhdHRyYWN0IG5ldyBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgYXMgdGhlIGJhciBm b3IgcGFydGljaXBhdGlvbiBpcyBsb3dlci4gSG93IHRvIHB1dCBhbGwgdGhhdCB0b2dldGhlciBm b3IgdGhlIG5leHQgMTAgeWVhcnMgaXMgdGhlIHRvdWdoIHBhcnQuIDstKQ0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 31 06:31:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAC33A14EA; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mfSxjKJlBtqe; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db8eur05on2119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.20.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D065E3A14EB; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cMx4T2/3MUM12OZnEWPzAXr+ijfwSgz96zlhxWuQQIasjJxRiadiHAPcFNbm4hKJSv3nikuTv2a/p2LnrRelAaR+27SZ6K+6Jp0MKe8jhlvOynG+rchTPDuzm2VJqm761Gb2xYzvdqiG3MeVyXUXfKcOZCkZ83WBzx4sCJYCraG68ArgoZ2C9prv8xIZ69nH9BQICikKyzfJxMyWCnCMpIbmTdt3iAHJgOBrunKGlTNL1PZdIayv7LS/A+BdTmfTvEFK5ebd5iF3hSqWPyUs6TyaiJAQ8hl8oJig3KwB5M8tP1i0PwBh8zFig9ck/TupzM0VvvBGeCDDLlF+5zqNog== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ciG2Ui1tNAs31396qX02RgzgM3xEoQridnDgoXbEa9U=; b=dSQ3oBnJJCCDrmSxBHekmVli10BVc5UAGRJJC84csCIIXtidYC9bwpGPEDhpXazC+oqyoRGSFm/CCC+C8pW+d5S0Ky5As3X5HbiL3KFIdvpnJ+UQ30YVT0O9CZXdC21y8xS1gaqyU6FqQfTs/UWrAbVsGRUwequi8wcK92MApRcJ7MHrIcGwKchizATRvOHYEj/jY5sVhPLdL4ZFuzpfETaqV8WhVbA/2tDcQYp+5OIyE2uy3xqxWYA80c5lPexqSgItEtmYtxKa40DQSi3d05dptyEq6/j4mH+7Yfi/mTu+QSNKiMgLyd13ZUPU9+MRBFTTHmY48kOJUVzYYak1vg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ciG2Ui1tNAs31396qX02RgzgM3xEoQridnDgoXbEa9U=; b=oRktYV9rQNNmvfqjumjz7geG7LETGX8pP5hSEgCuzqPDbpJ5T/jLD2X20S9jG9SBw6CLPXy3ZmItKhi+ATUeLyy4kDT8VSmhXaj/Xin78qQlTDoUTd8TDgX8SHXReY+QvLrhwSpIBYYlvMDVHsv9rCM5lNt4R2Jthc4InrWkMJ+OJqcsxHm/zm/RvrnusoUxJ1Y+TqbzZTWry2Kqu9ooeG8pp8YTy8zjive7oo5sr48n6V0aJgNqI6zPjHH+M3mWbq0RFp03ViCiUiegdczAhN44fS0enNpJpoASWG5Yj6bw67SF86YVRahvycjtpqseS+0zD/GMvFz2LBGhLiRYew== Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by DB9PR02MB7193.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:25d::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.24; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:30:25 +0000 Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4198:a9d1:7246:8272]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4198:a9d1:7246:8272%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4457.024; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:30:25 +0000 To: "Livingood, Jason" , John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:30:23 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 In-Reply-To: <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zo5FxfuT6iXyZY6ANlS60RkQrKMZ1aj4Y" X-ClientProxiedBy: DB6PR07CA0184.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:6:42::14) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [134.226.36.133] (134.226.36.133) by DB6PR07CA0184.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:6:42::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4478.6 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:30:24 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 5b110c77-ac97-433d-c764-08d96c837cf1 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB9PR02MB7193: X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:6108; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(396003)(39850400004)(346002)(376002)(136003)(38100700002)(53546011)(110136005)(5660300002)(6486002)(31696002)(86362001)(8676002)(66556008)(316002)(478600001)(235185007)(16576012)(786003)(66946007)(6706004)(8936002)(2616005)(2906002)(21480400003)(956004)(33964004)(66616009)(66476007)(26005)(31686004)(83380400001)(36756003)(44832011)(186003)(3940600001)(43740500002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?YWtrekpjNjNjL3pNYzZEaFJkZ3JHaE9QNlFpMjBRWjFKMTNqdldHdVVRaWZG?= =?utf-8?B?OTVRSCtNN1FPcVA0dmpJc3VkYXlqYlVPT0JnWjFLc0wyRmF6cElwenczWVA0?= =?utf-8?B?RVZFdExSSlp3T3FjSGZDUmtkR3loWGRUWi92Qzc2bm51VXZPWjZKc2YreUFY?= =?utf-8?B?YXRYY2Y0ZEU4WTlGUUN6MzRtRVdqN1BMM1hUTTNCRmluN1doTUJTV053Qlor?= =?utf-8?B?dmlycXhGODRmTlBPNFFkNHRsL21DbWhrdHU5Q2ZadGxNNjIwSkJ3VXRSeWo2?= =?utf-8?B?SWcwOVVmN2tid0l0OGs4cGVIS2hWS3NDUVJvclY0Y0JxT0F3Q2g4elFrTFpB?= =?utf-8?B?aXQ3cGV6SWNVTWszczF0UUpGdGhOdXNUSDVPL0hwNmJHUFR6V3Q4bVBVMVcz?= =?utf-8?B?TlhLak9CTFdwWUJwUFhCL3kxRmhMSGlxdDVlbXRyVVFWRU1WdUMyL0M1cUxD?= =?utf-8?B?ZldneE5lRGxTdnBNRXlUeGJKaTU1TWxYSW92TS96UnpLZEJ6eENkV1F3enUz?= =?utf-8?B?SllUZ3YyclZCa3NjenBJZFV2S3FlUC9tenZrd1pzcXhYd0xpL1RTcytGNnE5?= =?utf-8?B?bHRVWEYxWHFsVmh6WkNMcVh6L0NRbTM0Ym13UFJMdjFSNTVtblNndDROMVVq?= =?utf-8?B?UXVVV1FON0dPYVp4U3RhQnh1cG1hdU9WaGw2ZjEvSGpxakljSjNiZE1NTHVI?= =?utf-8?B?Zy9ndFQxT3ZKZ1UwTEFoUFBYNEMvKzVJNUhzTjFNdHE4enFDdkYySXhENUxJ?= =?utf-8?B?Y3RXWGgxUndPU21LUE9wZ2NUU2RmQzIzeVpjSEVweVFZT2pqM3A1SnJLY3I3?= =?utf-8?B?bzRFM0g4d21tdG5jK0RuUFEvOU9sc2wySnFIc2R4SXllTHZOMmMwM1JnVmo2?= =?utf-8?B?a2o0cXBwcmhMbVFraEkzZDI5VEZaLzB0TFJTZ2E1Ukh6MTQwN1N0Nk9BQlgv?= =?utf-8?B?MFBkVzh5Szh2QTVXd1BWR2xPcGY1SVo5RjJnT3pKUzlxWmI2YUFrRkhDV244?= =?utf-8?B?Nk9tVHN3UmJNYjhlNnpnZ202K2tZMGZTY2Rrd0N2LzNqdzRJbi9aVWhSWkdH?= =?utf-8?B?MmxDRnpHcFVzSEw0REw4YmU1VnI1TllxRlFtSzhaRFB6UXJwMFhnb2N0bUZ4?= =?utf-8?B?ZmhSbXpqUzdPc0ZxTlJoN2cwSlB3Z0RRWnNwRi9rZC91a0JkQXk3S1FGZmsz?= =?utf-8?B?M1NGU1FMYml6bXlCbW5aZER1azUxbkY2VXFoLzVSYWJxVjJEMVdBY3NOYVV1?= =?utf-8?B?MW1ueGVBQnBUdk9SSEZ5Rlk3Z3VnY1ZYWTZyZ291QUF4bjY0Y0cxKzYwWWJx?= =?utf-8?B?MndFV0FIMm9xS0lxTEJRaXNIdUg1RVp0Zk14SkxLNWJMS05saG5DWDlxU2Nt?= =?utf-8?B?MDJrczNCUUZhSWMyNEdQaHhqeHVBQUV4WFFxSlVac1Z5b0svSEZ6ajE0QVJU?= =?utf-8?B?QlFTVVFpaVorT1BJRERGRzltTU1qb3FQbFYzV3BIS3NSMEI1R3JoOFZ5Q3BX?= =?utf-8?B?MnZSU245QVZRWE13M3kwb3IwcS83d1J4NHJJSEZXSGVnOE5QdWVsbVZkMHB2?= =?utf-8?B?V3A2MHBSbGlBWnBoaFF4QWtNL2Y0b3NQYm1HcGZFK1dBVldIcXQ5eWd4NFJL?= =?utf-8?B?L2ZQK2lldTFwWlJOeEZJM0ZmWFhlQkZsRmtFWWpGYlJJQVVRaThlOU1ROC8x?= =?utf-8?B?MWNudjZUL3FKVEhoMWRMRHNqdWZhbCtuZzM1Uit6eFVSb2wxRmRRWCtlWWtu?= =?utf-8?Q?Ft7zKa9YV0o17+oYedV20gg27Q+LKiT4qccbFTu?= X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5b110c77-ac97-433d-c764-08d96c837cf1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2021 13:30:24.9217 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 78fVKixkckiUicEj7a5ETpq7TM1adlFPFak9VgnftjDXTZA/BRjQZAUBJ/K3q0R8 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB9PR02MB7193 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:30:35 -0000 --zo5FxfuT6iXyZY6ANlS60RkQrKMZ1aj4Y Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BnTOarGyy6IYk6QHim7KcqJJxgAeO47G0"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "Livingood, Jason" , John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" Message-ID: <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> --BnTOarGyy6IYk6QHim7KcqJJxgAeO47G0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BFDBF23E88BAED82679DADC7" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BFDBF23E88BAED82679DADC7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 31/08/2021 14:15, Livingood, Jason wrote: >=20 > [JL] This is a good point and it seems like this is the very pivot > point we in the community now face. The COVID pandemic will not > magically go away so instead of focusing on looking ahead in 4-month > increments while hoping the global health situation may take a turn > for the better, it is time to look at bit over the horizon. I suspect > there's consensus on that. Thinking of the long-term what's next > question will necessarily require the engagement of all of the key > leadership groups of the IETF and the community as a whole > (especially SHMOO) & there are no quick or easy answers. That said, I > think we do know enough that our first meeting to have some in-person > attendance will likely involve a smaller number of in-person > attendees than pre-COVID, and that it will be a hybrid of in-person > and online, which is what Jay is (tactically) focused on right now > with this consultation (since it will require venue negotiations, > etc.). >=20 > [JL] From a personal perspective, maybe we (the community writ large) > have an opportunity for a sort of idealized redesign process - clean > sheet - and asking if we established a new SDO now what would be the > most effective and efficient ways of meeting and collaborating > synchronously & asynchronously. A lot of what we do works well in an > asynch model, especially given we cover all time zones. At the same > time, periodic f2f is good for relationship building & trust > building. On the other hand, online meetings (large or small) have > the opportunity to broaden engagement and attract new participants as > the bar for participation is lower. How to put all that together for > the next 10 years is the tough part. ;-) I agree with the above. Two further thoughts: 1) The meeting agenda for such "hybrid" meetings might be a thing to consider from scratch, e.g. more hackathon and more chances for people to meet/chat outside WG sessions may be a good idea for the IESG to seriously consider. Or maybe to have more topic-driven sessions that don't map 1:1 to WGs or BoFs. 2) Not for our first few "hybrid" meetings, but if the f2f attendees go down to say 500, and if running 8 parallel WG sessions is less of a deal, then I guess we could consider different kinds of meeting venue, e.g. universities out of term, smaller hotels etc which might indicate revisions to the meeting venue criteria over the next year or more. Cheers, S. --------------BFDBF23E88BAED82679DADC7 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY Ea7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8D= VQu 8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5XiHzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER= 8la 5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABzSFTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwgPHN0ZXBoZW5AamVsbC5pZT7CwX0EE= wEI ACcFAlo9UYwCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQWrL68XsXK+qGC= xAA pYHWYgGOIL3G6/OpkejdAkQoCVQAK8LJUSf6vzwost4iVfxIKcKW/3RqKNKkrRl8beJ7j1CWX= Az9 +VXAOsE9+zNxXIDgGA7HlvJnhffl+qwibVgiHgUcJFhCSbBrsjC+1uULaTU8zYEyET//GOGPL= F+X +degkE/sesh4zcEAjF7fGPnlncdCCH3tvPZZsdTcjwOCRVonKsDgQzBTCMz/RPBfEFX44HZx4= g1U QAcCA4xlucY8QkJEyCrSNGpGnvGK8DcGSmnstl1/a9fnlhpdFxieX3oY2phJ1WKkYTn6Advre= k3U P71CKxpgtPmkd3iUUz/VZa0Cv6YxQXskspRDVEvdCMYSQBtJPQ4y2+5UxVR9GIQXenwYp9AP2= niv Voh+ITsDWWeWnnvYMq07rSDjq0nGdj41MJkNX+Yb2PXVyXItcj5ybE3T2+y3pSBGFEZYJGuaL= 4Nw tBJFMOdOtBmUOPbetS2971EL3Izxb7ibOZWDwexv+8R6SWYfP1wVN3p46RyBQuXqJV8ccE11m= 6vt ZTGSYgnLUUFZMRQYH+0hwuYe0T3AA18xDdSYsa8vovCCd3l5S4UNzIM2PMChqGrEzKapUpZg7= +8A CcxRU3b9Ihd7WYjJ+pQPCoWYKozvtEvenbNpE/govO/ED3B14e+R2yevRPjRrsN7PJzSf15fQ= LvC wFwEEAEIAAYFAlo9UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLrSwf+MIHbFRQ4O5cmLYR5sIByWelN3SuRN/gW8= rpK o9OkCz6An8uV/iCXy5tNMLzzi0BFl8f22DwBcC5qy9qnlIAdogWam1qWoTAoAD8veEqmuKhYr= qJs CcAyNrKYmK0hP3rpHxx1LySDmKYXmw/8qtBXKHTouMm+5tSsznhykRMTAAr2p7PSaHgo+hIVa= W/r KSspHjDhhZS+G9mtOZad1IH29M6G1Q1NCO0Ywe8krKLQIAQlFxtgvOqpPOZNzeKBa/+KbE8TG= gMW rkOhC8OeEM5PVzdDhlhD9kPzB/pCKDF5DofJ/ZRqnDpbKPQ0bsW38AOig3kOc0A27awiBEw3u= rqR 1cLBcwQQAQgAHRYhBH4XCgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g1MSBQJbtyScAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSI/oP/= 0A9 J9nrnBMqZpm857lfYWw+rshLK+tyeP4OQeOqnDFvs9jePpcyJLG3DF2r6VbVKPQq+AE6Uf5hc= JBD EN6BjEhRPSbLcqG3A1cz/nNwm8rPmNp+oKhmaBBQGxwciMLmzgynsDydnjPpMyEs04zvsbsl4= vrp 2095o105l8KcrrxQrioFjbwveGwHQK9bxJKhx9D+gIk+MouBur45UDKTZkMZrr9FGrtkyXCGA= xvK dcNC5Oa8z9sj1rcUJfG/OpVAMWhArdlZbFUQyoX6pU2Zb1CR2qpWAVerGSfBhmfCyStjARqaK= xlf tjO+Bj3Jj73Cr5eqej3qB5+V4BCsPjr4RLvVbYUCPsRdxWc+nBLlfVYkRURu21g1hFm5KFPjg= Uky o1s4vjUOY8DyI+xLGF7f/IhUBG6l+Vswhpwu7ydalZkeFiPx5xna5NfbEYxvsIf71DvipGvIO= aHv X4egWoFgm8n/9c3rcMxJtpwHPSsUt5dgLsyu6VE0IbvOAc3dN7CWJ355DVFJq9Zg2YVf0izSp= yyz JeGsgkfjW6xpmdvZxuT2UcN4BTcm6vYqueASGrb3lfhzC5gpeVsc/MoSjTS65vNWbpzONZWMZ= uLE FraxWJzC0JrDK3NCd0VN3kstqGkVbUIiYOnUm8Vu4zoVMLlGWzHLIGoPRG2nRezn1YyNfyb5w= sDc BBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8pK1gE7QL/ApC5P68W5DrI1787WJVZv1u4t/g39vTr7Xer= 3UM TVQg10vpa7pmqOGhjIDzDMg3Pe3K3M7fVzfAlUA1qw6ne4RCueVoRKpubeF4AlYbMr0K6hNCP= jt5 uAxmbBVuejKTc6pru5rv5gKL0nDbr+Snft5xt7juBLSSimw0/41sZnkjCxo9rF/RA/v6+uWyK= 171 RKmsEYu8fFtw1eqUNt/Xj792TUixE3pxXheNtQtZGk/9P3W83ChhG4Fh5EQsn0pIh9wZIAbMR= Lpg RKyW87fWHZC8/YH8h7afarvn9Thl5pFUldCe22mNJj6KLChn2aEHQd+PdY1GBpZEcmNEUPuov= wza tM0h64hCzTm41eDqRfihZVBT7TbfXQnv8rywa42Mk756RGzzEZcQEhwQXZcMQUfxIQQ2VyJo0= zG3 6VdZTQF7TF/4Lz7/3cJ56jOIm+dwPXtu+C2wAQuD4USOLt4JWPYpqzDfHYJIND/497P9Z9SuQ= eah r2ez3DRBg3qsHEjBV80yU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsICgyMDE3KSA8c3RlcGhlbi5mYXJyZWxsQ= GNz LnRjZC5pZT7CwYAEEwEIACoCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlo+o= 3cC GQEACgkQWrL68XsXK+qO0A//ZsfQzyXrZlu/eEV5jU620yeOM3P7SW3C3UQYdCgZ/TlvxGgKo= w5o DSXgjMiUyq9csGqbPBxlDYSxFZHNeDVKYIuP2ZK24tw5k6duTh4+sFwUualTMlcp0zBCIzn3h= Rcs RvuPKHfl5+6oOi0+xqx3jX/s/69L/fvHmdSKet5LIUAxoYaZkTCruFrPWb01tgAl5JExWkhmC= Y98 iD+EeiIMAWBjMw1xV+p0uCwNbN6XDzcToK7wsm+tAIiWUy3DpP60a6WbVwdV0HNt2WZq5U5Jd= h2k 4S+sN2CnYk4tTW7jHjsWarV3FLISCOObADZuB7ljU4kYfdwZ+WzenXY4LGlxGQSlAblGjwZe4= EIk CXAJUtzJhoFUuGaF/PlWjxqV3UFRcgTERZTijguVyREre8GNERNgvDxZvuXssEjvz9X5JfcIZ= DIJ pdzhLiEIj9noUbfx1SzB5KDPQj0O7elMHa1671/rwWcpGr/MfVPTOik4H7F8rcVJelceZTzC4= tvy a7M+jM4fyFWWt8Y4atTixUiP7U9o4uBZCQ0GzvsmFA4XLqn2pA5rVizMXnGbGOjufAP/efEJ4= ul3 qvjYe8ye8DXEDjKAxo/tuHYtk19XCi83QzFhWls5TT+XQeVTMEvVqo9Wek8yoxo67qvLKKqIc= G9g ivQd8MxYNAbNYgSPtkbhZ8TCwFwEEAEIAAYFAlo9UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLzHAgAlWT6NXEGt= w/r 1miKNGcopzvzILQ9oB8rKI9U9EL6tOf/y2V5oYee/GyQDb3ZdoPxxYYcJf+RyiH1nMoqUIZiZ= Jaf 3bJXinDZ5+AdfE++UR2NBvqaNyC6u3r24jo1B/sagKbYtWgsYtRqHLD4IWi37MZrVyjBuF7u1= 4Q0 7+uhjq6mX2O/tHpCYw/Q82tbeTRPyUf1WQOAfD1kfBpW9PvAva5Iw9FWeXpCXRzwxnCZhYfGf= qtu Sw6CPBYLdbikqML6FZ7EDuTBb/8um1wK7Y9bgeIQC+CYjhYB5RXa1tDJRab2Js4luCvSR0w/C= gHw 26293tlve2Q6UTrmHxP5U22DlsLBfQQTAQgAJwUCWj1QMgIbAwUJCZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKC= wIE FgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6tJpD/4rrILH+meP07vrx8wW5eYuqCiPGYnh/CXxIF8eL= rfb e5d4QRgtq+w6UeQPMyzKRIRiCoBXB2oJLBZHyxBPxZlg33dTMrEGn8QWKx2iNuz9rZMXyOSWF= etu O01d/aUPd5BnbLbIyK5of8xCQlXM6KH8bc+9gQ7edR9mfLTdvBf2FR522hg8BRBM1imKc3vO8= v39 +qIHHRjuiwxBBCAOhHtHRsZXripS0uFA07dM46Oi/E8osjx6fQt/lH5z/PN+2adxYSrLSAXfr= 1oD 3RxYNhuWgyGFL64/VCQb1YGjf0Z5MBPnWm9jgUoOY5K9eNSS0L83WeJjlF5+Q/WOgB+rb49Pr= m2D Feo9+S9f2V53Llz1WIspXJg6f+n9lmHE94MfQj1GAHCzI0FeL19lvM+LhD8jJSCbhrC3+yoby= y/A UOs5Z3E+njjX1FF/VCVAs6iOa6i+XG+Y1hh3ir2y1kckJ5auT10MSU8GEZu9ayU4M3o3N9yxO= jao P0NuQ4MMLL/n/u4u94AeZaHPNBXn/hVfVRRmpRXtGKvJtFAEppGEYezB+bLKIm6XlpPkhnwYz= leL Z7AMEco2C6QM8QPB3g3JpS3sqRhA5rEP4lL16BmijmF+CHoPE/zwgKZbKpyVDqvIW5IDgvfIC= 2X4 pbZDRvGIUKaGSB4+ksZgUUnNyvfQr2p7jsLBcwQQAQgAHRYhBH4XCgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g= 1MS BQJbtySbAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSeKkQAJm44jt1kwHgQgeDBKdjdvl0AjE0xVEQxriZ6lP/l//34= YT0 auFfzsYIrChSpQXAEtobBAr4Ohw1Us+BZe+H5P8vm6LRuPwozC3SjwfX4Iec8+9ot6tIVg4sb= edD Sgb/CCFVjsmIGcQ1P73JLJTBJ6mxYCV/gn3QC6bwDOFo7kD9FDHCjRN8XfhHQ4Q9cYyt06uF3= 1qG /aumgWYC9geCGgAwiHgwxNYb9GoJ0iZjCROwbYvLTcQgsVUW2bTmsVR13UVKDsdl02sRV7qcV= YW6 R0a3Ra8KudX+nt25H5DRGd382KZ5W8pydsy/viTvD9z6v0ulChBYxAedIvGIClrhbxlLEPmIg= 4Im VOLGqsUgVm32J95WOjEkk4PEZ12xSDBtwhSJqmJNboWlfmw43KdIbY8zNhffIO3N6O7FsdGxm= qyH eLoTpqY+ySVUPpbuyW8ujnI/J//+6hdTZ9dQsEJQlWngKuWOQ5ma58MPSN88zllsqhZAFQjNx= qnk SzL6ZQ+v/jvuRRe16B80AeO55DsmbWsMv/YLLD1mSi7+Khy2EtMBhgojWwrGMvdLN6X3mnzNJ= Esc YyLxM9tSk+iySP2sLthK0BVgpAzBSdaf/ezIz60P+neHDzteNFf8Mn7lmgYk1amvZoJ29s5+n= 2Hw xyRL5dVMyMdyQmntubbctfqrZ0tIwsDcBBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8pK1gnCYMAJY4F= eIY jlIXGghFWzsB4fYwK1+iaFpU3fSto5qcrqVtVPjXpwqczqBWeXGyQxiB0kan4OVAXydIeaP8E= AuF CA7paP3s9STLJBO3KurkwyRkPW5zo0X7xVqaVToRsX2Ul98KVJoHYQD1KdezEtwlvpNwiiBr4= 2AY R751Vm6JBVAbQXuFpB3c8bUV0OkkRxNFtL8/2PieHar58n5dntGkbPlPkztahsFqktgacIgXH= X5v aT+7YeeZ1DWLOYjGO0wNhkOSeroCmxwJUikU7joBp823L7r5KfpqWTPpSCzVstQKZUGmmoE1q= Csw Y/Ud5wvp9SccpIILkRXj0rZRtfnE5MpL3hjmtNzfDd9qIsJtBJlSB2hZwAsVm1l+EWN9hG3tq= yA4 3niUMy2n6q690of3berSiQ+kvY/aC9Hx8I+bKzOV9/J2VUTqfaPZa4Uy2rVX5Q2p69n/PMj7m= Eer 0rCL3j9V16J9c+s0BSkXoKdtYdB0TWVhBgUybd9qtYcwHWvhP80uU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsI= Dxz dGVwaGVuQHRvbGVyYW50bmV0d29ya3MuY29tPsLBfQQTAQgAJwUCWj1RWgIbAwUJCZQmAAULC= QgH AgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6jscEADEcB0WQEZn2AkrzDs1RhL0Lp6cZ= i0B igofkbcGfdhJyMSs19C0dhvncrAFClVI6/Udw3yFtDyYtOCf2W3M3A1K6/RfEizCLzTsdFIhn= i9g OJLlUpXViQtgrlstjk7hqVV3Ooz4BlCqS4cG7rfqf4LQQPpTAuFUEV9I28FBUB2irqC+v4gTy= sIg pMw0bA1yBU9sX5jE/tRkzqnuzZrkwiobDtRFJ9qp+7O2JtcY4EsVtLAsaodJKc5cF8R4OvB1n= 66v xxcgg9Eh4JNWZ47xsaCmAGo1Bcb2jIY35OtgAL7gCGLRSMKTtAaPy1/fEgIqhCljJ9x40Fkn/= 3r2 BX21WC9HFSPFTBz2RluLRzxdgxOrkYK8EiHUPoE5b1AEzZKw2AbeXfr57f5zYsN3IqfbQLUjM= YtU N1wK3Pjb+idD972wyXMWt8uOzlI7b9Ocu+nYm2whBfJv9Pmp3QYTmPz+LB9lH65VNVUSxSXVr= 5iW XO3qx1HtEiGEqkporMQCTh3T5Ud3PvMSRBFFKNs9WhJ/Lxz+SV30WLwG6dr5mQqlzAhb4Phc/= zek ZyXRdS/oDKrBLUucS36O//49JeyRi1QvOfxnfmIqRIAf/k3PoYJmTo5E82//r5Qj3YGlRu78b= a0H Arxs+ACD6AnEHHcbswpbtVEKYzlSu0Ar0Dc7vRWM/IyQdMLAXAQQAQgABgUCWj1SoAAKCRAvP= Ic2 gF+NosIsB/9f/29FNla3BJfGIEIDnhrqGD0i9bSa89SqBd++uG06TQgW5wsqtNcrwn81yZTq6= XE6 i9VtD4GKfqC0d4KZJr9bnbeD81cI64VOdL8zJWJs0vj5EIXCobKyX74Kb4uePUyZqwT2Q74I1= 16u /HwA9/FXsPo5isbh4ZqD4t0VHpWkmfq1FPT9a/JPyX46qKqB2Fce/7Qy+SQP1NfkuUlbhUH/J= G9a SSYvk3lznNiH41x9M+FDlL106itXOubrl3oi2fT3fsSedq7uzt+IV0DQEeNaoQAUuwEhdB8IW= OMq N2woDjGVKJftfsSWY9ilZrnDBNDrp0vRqcx33LUMkIw4d7iBwsFzBBABCAAdFiEEfhcKBFyEz= 0YO K3mgEO952f2DUxIFAlu3JJwACgkQEO952f2DUxJjuw/6ApHSsVTWD4a0H6FJ23A9Ftpy+aXZ4= vYl zkSrfsn2ECrEfK3lXQh/uzwjJUDYZeB1/BQsFZtcYNQOJSSHbQ49BFRLwb1J/wBZG4bbmrkLx= nNb KDKQvzxEpclkMW0Dj0J6o7kGrmzIGGrhB+JJN99AcineHRug8ZSFIERRCmigxdhAKU0BFD7P+= 5HN HltSL3DF1c2fFOf2JrgBKVoE+9RhMZjWNbYetFFLCkjXb5Rpay9zeMm1DxfSTGAnuOwUXW6qq= 4hn l5+VC/48ceDZElLLfu7RQUZv44pkSTOWZs+iQoJiHMFHk9wPqyB2Vok1yJ2a2j27WhXrJlPwn= Zbg JO5RyWDG3p/eVmpl5Uuc2dsfIpR17KnAuWpghK6V+cyFncDoGCl/YG2MvoolsW08FiZh3Ej4d= nJj j25TZkeFG74JJDXLvMYpJfSBGnmETv4Dhcm2xPqVMuFuL1qJlMbVLrMo2GXeo03OzNyvbs+u8= WLI aGm5hC7N1CXY8wZs4jo6OJ/expvnc07dEuws4zT3AiWv3nIouWReRStZy9QkavDocqbyPmilc= dPC Yk4BsOlzpwwO74hNG7iyl0KdAlwTxGQ7y0rJou6HYa1TmRhIEr3vKvlW+JfUUrqtjXgsuacTX= o4+ Ira2JUErL2cYzQMq1j4r1ZyhFnuz93s7Rsx/Nw0+0YvCwNwEEAEKAAYFAlvFx+UACgkQajsRO= Tyk rWCJqwv+NLVPE4sD4sDA2/6Ek7UsRIUkg+S39fhqWsLc4rtw/mDunv8Un61I3K04fZ2Ry4nF9= hZM 0a710UvXFbStvrzRJO3EAAcdJR9LTCd19e8UeruQbIee3YT91U4NkC9JMpecfq62/teOAU2e5= P3f WYaLs5ZX7zCLwWuBcW2l3SyoljQczM85HhJ3XHm+FnwQ6D9xRle+lvWTcuC9d1yAyUb8IOosp= cL2 lJTmy8e3r79R24hPlSB4LDe0wEN8AXbagrcAQZjwyaHyWxjJbTwZ0b43WGdfIqZ1ElOeoffbk= etP GRmWvx5xUvb2ALFBBdETzV270gs5XDJgJ1SIIKOyDADxwvroTe2jD8C/841eEql5QSow3s/U3= zRq k3mttto8Qw/DN71aeh6dmYSsvd2UjsHw/vofOPRBGxZLEkKTEvMnhmMW9hiKPkPia+QgevYE0= 20q pKSxLEdWA8nprHwxmGiDNesCfXSC6vm1qfyj5g8HzxSckq9ZaMhKMCo7vxflUEDuzsFNBFo9U= DIB EAD6DdHQfMav8OXfhjTteoarOrlJTSdci727xiezGPuBHmpvceBRZgRasdbaMc4HJee+R9+5x= /nL PCuy/DxDyIjwIUeJNgc+l7LjI9WfpHTD8U4xxjvR5Mi7+ToQQUOUNuzT0O0pyuxP1uY3RehHE= hOV fBZO59ipSeZL5iQC6T5MsK1SKfs51pLa5ToC1rc8tBJ4zZmxRAyZiYc/AH2uZ/6rYjTTkAn1D= VI9 DYo2D/zE4bGjXdJW5pKphFB2lX3dG4I7ODi+5e1H6A/QpCu6z8/ZkIQ+9T1xcX/YwiFeA7PbT= uW/ eITbMbI1eV3+fyym9aT7Rsflmp31Zxtr+sZwGGZf00ooMBFmqOS//NUQ/Vf3vDUew1h5QU1yD= aWT 3NApvi+XWPH9TPy6TMfZA2FThHf11sX/gDBa5JWQZbptPEcmoazpiKZt91CrFPOaoXDPck/Q6= 1df mr/oPikfByYnASIM3OwEuXqyQ9JDRfKrem5r+oA/wxWb5jELElAhOpnyqMMvOh7uz1foUssL8= MAv 2TGXmxpVJ8Nu4je6wf96Z22fQ0D38zud+CKH3bMP3ayXXJBcdPoENrzFbWP5FTg/4TTDJ3vOA= HZR 5iCunYghx8b7Ffa4UbkwlD+dh8GiIAtvT51Ac0cO0Wc0Zjc57zPUz1zloMbf+zb1Bsn7DuEQo= qj1 gwARAQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJaPVAyAhsMBQkJlCYAAAoJEFqy+vF7FyvqrC8P/1tF6TeR83xD6= Mas qXyrBjwcLmziaF0Mlkj8k/YUiZ/knb53n97xQnh9yxPv0TT8Wpfdn3BmvqGyh8+ouHX9jMOxi= RkM dNhIauVYY/8jmRfBSYWcFkfMzdYasvdLtmYJgx252HKTFdeOrszoOjWjEzwmh+tca3AFMu/nB= ++/ KAmi5UJV7zsZ7uYJ5jm97LV5SLjNJIXXM+lHqCDrjDaDhNczmq1LCRlU6/WDjvkuwaVhZG4lX= xMD rvKnXMkjseQ2oKjwrIdfQM86H1z5J31lfhqop+of0cimcIsBgSCPu+h96LHuAzeRBCbDKeqrf= ZtA ZAGsokRina9947fRWxXHh3O66ILmXKNRxxWbDkPvYnQWUat8SbSTDoPWrDIGDRIAypqYo3pcN= 2OE 0C1chqgDZQxkr+9kYZQpupOAN2TR+fM7JvbO9coKI8Uqog8CopoMeDQkd0YjcqlB1E0svODHT= zcS oRzogDBYDqNLP7qVkNXpcOAXSVioBgiSDf7o5RdS/qmUyXBIeq6I5z8xBcd+BQ/n/9Frkm6K7= IKP 3ngUP4wEoiPx5ZE5+fPIScGmVUcZIMhkvMvem9XXh1yyhqN14gfjmLwPGdWbrgG8QUe0s2WeW= Iys s6uTiyF+ZbJSo2XOKVc3YFMVUUfgyudqAV1wWdZinUk+H3pkqOKoHAy/8fST =3D40Nd -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------BFDBF23E88BAED82679DADC7-- --BnTOarGyy6IYk6QHim7KcqJJxgAeO47G0-- --zo5FxfuT6iXyZY6ANlS60RkQrKMZ1aj4Y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAmEuLu8FAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+rw lw/+LR+bDmcolzA6vJkhdTfpZ17vnZjykGcDsozK9mRgYKtUTwWb1yalWEJtmREBKQR7HlVk9pRQ Hm6GqKOQnVquiDaoGd4sIvfq0qHaRpyHJwmk9hw5W93YmyqNx5g1qs1gq4ZzN/KfbPAeTLk/0xJK xiI1TrglWJE1/blr/hwxXEdETMQ/ImFhUKh1Woz2kSm71DlpypURvoqpZ4V/OokMZ0kDJ6LeMX6l SZqS6DVxe+oKPVisVSbuhUWfKNRhwyyU0JRBnYBdHEz4OXmFNbYJoF6pOtqzRUM19zH00+99tqVz cJWaDOVJojpyO59p8RjLextMgAWpDj7HvEt1HPKbRNZPRtlRkFlZLBxzqqDS81zjHpx4KpUiH5BO DFu/FXS8/FAZYhhl4wB7o3a73yPhEGZCZQRIO7sPgHchOhjQjGq3uQxX9pBhI/t0TPiWaCn/9kVK 20pM9Owsdfex8I6Af26e//SDjn6uleVD7JWBmufxb84DDf8/YBAS2ViECSSnFxfXybzLyry+Oejn 21tBcg2hVheCoLhfGqoTqEPLbZoXhhSnnRL26FIAaIvfIU2gNmanxyvtar6oYZZNRE/Ok1Zt6JzH Cal7weNLAvXhq3V3KHVLNI7Sv/PKAN7hQLOkH1sRzYyO8ATxAXdJugvXg7+43jCSOTFlKxx+AHY+ i3k= =xV6U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zo5FxfuT6iXyZY6ANlS60RkQrKMZ1aj4Y-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 06:59:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873AD3A15FA for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EcmD8qxVAOyi for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61DB73A15F9 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id q39so24388128oiw.12 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7cN4iRbqO8yw0y0clVh0Fa3q+YvoFeqDgLO+x5Hm2jA=; b=CL3dvCTiMS/RTiYNr1NfAbMG9wDVdPhtIr9az/jKI4nz5vwhP9PK4MfzNGhSgAdV3p JVp5yax4Z1sdhpw97cqtw5wAOVKYuxkCPspt+n5jqLbqrxa5zH39TBL/MH3RYMyJtNQx gV7nnDWlRP7uBosT8L0Wvzkgtj+uKWUoOPubsWZHTYc348Y7kn/+NUNyZtwKTmCjHXRW TuS9C0JEUdxBJERTR4PsrHMwuarJlIbZzEWybdSam2GzIJMH7rgoqYNcqGs3wxuQs7KB EqfuvFmneKTq9k48vVTKRHpi8zWzYcWajpGZ0M7zXY/tOv658KEgSooYtOQB9WS3CsNk GIXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7cN4iRbqO8yw0y0clVh0Fa3q+YvoFeqDgLO+x5Hm2jA=; b=cWC03IfqkRKTynpnC8LTlcD6iGwRRyeZ/oJBXyClOoORGqNtwuS4C4RtWq2pS9aEgi T8iDy8Z7ECwkBl+0RJOkltc4zyQgF4FXWGoMgT2gQO3XF4yzY+Qrd4HQggLkTrCvGeHM DvGVl945bSOj9bITHg1pp3I3tEyPSrO7hNa1U0yw3etrnRpvijGc2cjgllSczgzR98u7 8YwsJgkCDEg81x18lg2f1/1fqS2MRawN7UkHIJGkr3pPxL5fvRw9MmPBttNUtozuJdBO 7RxrtqZu2CfBhiylm6tiTT+OW6qJWUVXLgThgbLczKq7AegPzsOmQKf7SrWAva2hzQpK hmvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533WR5oN4GP830b5g3fHcsuf+bz0TA7uokfSBbdny8hspu95h1rm NmJKZ0QSNw+gZBA16OLJEbbrbxnsQcoI3MuXHjNvfHVsYtJpOA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyAJvK1CwU16mLEwjMdyCsZDxBXF4ik3JxrBXtFLyuxH4MYbxb/6LHgICj8ME+kjhN4SUnJLffql6AKnWtZQRg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:a09:: with SMTP id n9mr3178943oij.67.1630418383874; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:43 -0700 From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: admin-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b3dd405cadb5c04" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:59:51 -0000 --0000000000009b3dd405cadb5c04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By and large this summary and proposed way forward makes sense and I support it. Some specific comments below: On August 30, 2021 at 12:00:20 AM, IETF Executive Director ( exec-director@ietf.org) wrote: ## Part 1 - Income 1. Registrations fees We propose - the registration fee for onsite participation stays as it was pre-COVID, though we retain the option to pass on any specific COVID-related costs that should not be absorbed into the fee. - to introduce a registration fee for remote participants at the same rates as currently charged for fully online meetings as this is necessary to ensure that we can go ahead. I think retaining the remote participation fee is fine *iff *the job of facilitating remote participation is taken seriously. This is hard to guarantee because you are at the mercy of working group chairs, but the in-person participation process should be explicitly designed to facilitate this=E2=80=94the "best effort" approach that's been taken at past in-person= IETFs is definitely not sufficient. 4. Travel and expenses We propose to make no changes to who is funded by the LLC to attend an onsite IETF meeting, though we expect some natural attrition is likely given that not everyone wishes to risk travel. This is because some are essential to the functioning of the meetings (e.g. Secretariat, NOC) and some are a valuable part of the meeting experience (e.g. RPC, Tools Team). Is there a way to scale down the NOC? That seems like it's been a really big effort pretty much since Maastricht, and while it's really cool, I'm not convinced that we really need to take over the hotel network to have a successful IETF. How much of a cost reduction could we get from not doing that? 5. Additonal sessions/facilities We propose to - defer the childcare until a later date That seems unfortunate. - review the Codesprint and Hackathon space and expense requirements with the organisers Makes sense. - not provide a terminal room Totally okay with this. I hope this feedback is useful. Thanks for doing this. I am really looking forward to being able to meet in person again. In all honesty I would be sorry if it turned out that we just went back to business as usual, because I think holding three international meetings yearly is really problematic given the climate situation, but I think having one a year would be really valuable. --0000000000009b3dd405cadb5c04 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
By a= nd large this summary and proposed way forward makes sense and I support it= . Some specific comments below:

On August 30, 2021 at 12:00:20 AM, IETF Executive Director (exec-director@ietf.org) wrote:<= /div>
## Part 1 - Income
1. Registrations fees
We propose
- the registration fee for onsi= te participation stays as it was pre-COVID, though we retain the option to = pass on any specific COVID-related costs that should not be absorbed into t= he fee.=C2=A0=C2=A0
- to introduce a registration fee for= remote participants at the same rates as currently charged for fully onlin= e meetings as this is necessary to ensure that we can go ahead.
=

I think retaining the remote participation fee= is fine iff the job of facilitati= ng remote participation is taken seriously. This is hard to guarantee becau= se you are at the mercy of working group chairs, but the in-person particip= ation process should be explicitly designed to facilitate this=E2=80=94the = "best effort" approach that's been taken at past in-person IE= TFs is definitely not sufficient.

4. Travel and expenses
We propose to make no changes to who i= s funded by the LLC to attend an onsite IETF meeting, though we expect some= natural attrition is likely given that not everyone wishes to risk travel.= This is because some are essential to the functioning of the meetings (e.g= . Secretariat, NOC) and some are a valuable part of the meeting experience = (e.g. RPC, Tools Team).

Is there a = way to scale down the NOC? That seems like it's been a really big effor= t pretty much since Maastricht, and while it's really cool, I'm not= convinced that we really need to take over the hotel network to have a suc= cessful IETF. How much of a cost reduction could we get from not doing that= ?

5. Additonal sessions/facili= ties
We propose to
- defer the childcare until a later date

That seems unfortunate.

- review the Codesprint and Hackathon space and expense requirements with = the organisers

Makes sense.

- not provide a terminal room
=

Totally okay with this.

I hope this feedback is useful. Than= ks for doing this. I am really looking forward to being able to meet in per= son again. In all honesty I would be sorry if it turned out that we just we= nt back to business as usual, because I think holding three international m= eetings yearly is really problematic given the climate situation, but I thi= nk having one a year would be really valuable.

<= /body> --0000000000009b3dd405cadb5c04-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 07:00:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2986F3A15F8; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:00:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Sj8dKN9H7HW; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3D8D3A15FB; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 06:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:1d1f:3f58:e36a:a55c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A897B600373; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:59:28 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1630418368; bh=HClvXYSNzqhTY7BtlzOFvg3HuIQPkjgxzz4NUUOA8mU=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=OjneFYLGG7iKpzUy8xg3RECyrfdVKK8Cc/fHDF7AieCsswYGXlhN1CXEj5uiEhDjv U/cuS5kixt+EbyfDUatwDRir5AMnriTQgoLfhdCY9InnYp8D1VXuOA61WWMfJj/kPo ZeiG+ajI+XhGbw5/iiqND8GVvCytpe6CrPyit+X4= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E0CB1486-CDFA-4E05-9CC8-586934476E21"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:59:26 +0300 In-Reply-To: <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" To: Stephen Farrell References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> X-MailScanner-ID: A897B600373.A3078 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:00:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E0CB1486-CDFA-4E05-9CC8-586934476E21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-8-31, at 16:30, Stephen Farrell = wrote: > 1) The meeting agenda for such "hybrid" meetings might be a > thing to consider from scratch, e.g. more hackathon and more > chances for people to meet/chat outside WG sessions may be a > good idea for the IESG to seriously consider. Or maybe to > have more topic-driven sessions that don't map 1:1 to WGs > or BoFs. agreed. If more people are remote than are attending in person, that = would probably suggest that we should structure the day more like we = currently do for fully online meetings, i.e., limit session times to = ~6h/day. That would make remote attendance probably not worse than for a = fully online meeting, and would also leave more time for direct = interactions for those who are attending in person, compared to a = regular meeting. (There are of course other things we might want to change for a hybrid = meeting.) > 2) Not for our first few "hybrid" meetings, but if the f2f > attendees go down to say 500, and if running 8 parallel WG > sessions is less of a deal, then I guess we could consider > different kinds of meeting venue, e.g. universities out of > term, smaller hotels etc which might indicate revisions to > the meeting venue criteria over the next year or more. The secretariat is already looking into venues that in the past have = been excluded due to size issues but that are otherwise ticking all our = boxes. I think venues we did a past site visit for are being looked at = with some priority (to avoid site visit travel during COVID). I don't think universities are being looked into currently, and I'm not = sure whether they would fulfill the requirements in RFC 8718. If someone = with a university affiliation would like to make that suggestion, = https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/ has a form that can be = submitted to start that process. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_E0CB1486-CDFA-4E05-9CC8-586934476E21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmEuNb4ACgkQVLXDCb9w wVd6aQ/+MwZdkS1fAw0YussmDwSUR0tfAmSxfWLfG+8WNgwOHsiZS7zY6UFLPUF3 hY+cvKEVIRfZ9OV+N9e2PzFCfztoQ/WugIVSODnkL4zauRcma7jxX8Jl6xmC0E8+ X2ixpRvMw2DZARq4wd/VYRPrU13thXIZK85y57CHBCRumnNXG9H6JohZR6bYvT1E G4FnIb5PrB13mI2KZG0TOxtMT+pQz9aQROSal0Ozy/9po+Pc8fxp0W9oXpcCDeqd h5ZDQWtkdNSdlYsNKgvKvaLHAeD64O4atQ/wv9bRqGAIVAWxcswfkNRvR/W5ZRh/ WmaT1p4xft8nf+66FJTwJJ3LfH+76g9QI58GjqyEWwDXKYkZ52EtBXwJMGMSXLDJ +9Hz5HwRu43SW4blhJfSx+RHCHlRPPwiMaNPwoiDEPp/NzUDz2w6okH4ZaZ15xuk uclWEIufKjsA2Bxu9Eh8sdlU9K1zLGQjYh+DT8X9G4eg+R1m3R6QUI5osV3r9o1D xHPEgMZ2YMNU2Tq3TPIRKWy4AL0Wd1IUbvhcnCwacXCTMsHDaeYaziZtCKP4uejk Rl0cmk09DQP77+AcGb3Jr8zS0+rUdnjAa1YTry68qc8wEmSaBgLG5QxLS7zpJQ2s lradlcycAeufkRuJ/gryQ9EyXjW+fsuVyQsxu3RkWsl+vJuSjdE= =jUOY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E0CB1486-CDFA-4E05-9CC8-586934476E21-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 08:00:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109A43A1838; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=Y3XWimZN; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=zph9MYQL Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ju_uFkphJy3B; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFA153A181A; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2756; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1630421990; x=1631631590; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=e5a7Zd1IV7VHlfzDy2VvnXmcmhte5Pep3uQI/U1P2bw=; b=Y3XWimZNJji2Dkoe21VhpVMln0YrsADTaGzgclITQWcchk4tVAr/ElPp W6RVyea8A6XKZDPz51nX7Lhxkk2KvDTYOIZeHBrLIJ+Qrm41Z1Xxn5uIl EpEbVSQC4gfQ3AwCP7m42WhBGmMcur8InoyZvbuKZCOAnx47+DjamRzzL M=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AkAADqQi5hl5FdJa1aHQEBAQEJARIBBQUBQIFFCAELA?= =?us-ascii?q?YFSKSh+WjcxiA8DhFlgh18mA5pLgS6BJQNUCwEBAQ0BASoLDAQBAYQpRQKCM?= =?us-ascii?q?wIlNAkOAQIEAQEBAQMCAwEBAQEFAQEFAQEBAgEGBBQBAQEBAQEBAYEIhWgNh?= =?us-ascii?q?kIBAQEBAgEBARAoBgEBJgYLAQ8CAQgYHhAnCyUCBA4FIoJPAYJVAw4hAQ6dV?= =?us-ascii?q?wGBOgKKH3iBM4EBgggBAQYEBIUKGII0AwaBOgGCfop7JxyCDYEVJwwQgmY+g?= =?us-ascii?q?mIBAYE4KINNgi6FfXBZOQgRECI5Cyo9bZFXrDMKogkFKacBtyeEHAIEAgQFA?= =?us-ascii?q?g4BAQaBYTmBW3AVOyoBggoBMz4SGQ+OIAwNCRVvAQeCRIUUhUkBdDgCBgsBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QMJj0WCRgEB?= IronPort-PHdr: A9a23:JmvfKxchPu0fhSY/oyFYLD5LlGM/rYqcDmcuAtIPhr1Bf76/uZP4M x+X6fZsiQrPWoPWo7JBhvHNuq/tEWoH/d6asX8EfZANMn1NicgfkwE6RsLQD0r9Ia3nYCM3B tgEU0VqrDm3NEFPE5P4YFvf6nS58T8VHED5Mgx4buT4E4LflYK5zee3rpbSeA5PwjG6ZOAaE Q== IronPort-HdrOrdr: A9a23:q6sD6amC+rvq8CzBubp5VK3owb/pDfN6iWdD5ihNYBxZY6Wkfp +V/cjzhCWbtN9OYh4dcIi7Sda9qXO1z+8T3WGIVY3SHzUOy1HYUr2KirGSgQEIeheOttK1sJ 0BT0EQMqyKMbEXt7ee3OD8Kadd/DDlytHsuQ699QYWcegCUcgJhG0VZnf5Yy9LrUt9dOcE/f Gnl6x6Tk+bCAwqh7OAdwA4tob41rn2vaOjRSRDKw8s6QGIgz/twqX9CQKk0hAXVC4K6as+8E De+jaJopmLgrWe8FvxxmXT55NZlJ/K0d1YHvGBjcATN3HFlhuoXoJ8QLeP1QpF591HqWxa1u UkkS1QZ/ib2EmhJV1dZiGdgTUI5QxeskMKD2Xo3EcL7/aJGA7SQPAx9L6xOiGpm3bI+usMj5 6iGwmixstq5dSqplWi2zGAbWAZqmOk5XUliuIdlHpZTM8Xb6JQt5UW+AdPHI4HBz+S0vFqLA H/ZPusl8q+XGnqJUwxhFMfjeBEn05DaCuuUwwHoIiYwjJWlHd2ww8Rw9EehG4J8NY4R4Nf7+ rJP6x0nPUWJ/VmI55VFaMEW4+6G2bNSRXDPCabJknmDrgOPzbIp4Ts6Ls46em2cNgDzYc0mp 7GTFRE3FRCNH7GGImLxtlG4xrNSGKyUXDkzdxf/YFwvvnmSL/iIUS4ORsTegub0r0i6+jgKr eO0b5tcovexFrVaM90NlfFKuxvwFElIboohuo= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,366,1620691200"; d="scan'208";a="738117671" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 31 Aug 2021 14:59:49 +0000 Received: from mail.cisco.com (xbe-rcd-006.cisco.com [173.37.102.21]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 17VExn32012532 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:59:49 GMT Received: from xfe-rcd-005.cisco.com (173.37.227.253) by xbe-rcd-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from xfe-aln-005.cisco.com (173.37.135.125) by xfe-rcd-005.cisco.com (173.37.227.253) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:59:48 -0500 Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (173.37.151.57) by xfe-aln-005.cisco.com (173.37.135.125) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:59:48 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=W5Lg4lofwxQK8veUWZyhQkWli2oSQ+OCh/o4tZXr/CQwvbl+H+yUmAQZtj3A8YsE1sQJzPC3m42EKcrBQC2TxqWR3d9863nuRqOCctB/GgnCveLv4Ntf1pElnMKOp2zgZ0tfkKhu5hPwZ/oJNjXNoDjU4ESKCyELJCMl1WAt6kPI5Z1V2vLFHHzfKSGd8rqI87apcP01X/CrNu31e4NnHasE0VXYCeSegRyUjISPva5vJok6lWMHN6iOzc45ysrQoYA7a+0/EA9kv/1dwW7sCcK08nkOfDQxv08/R6zzaD0crfS+SsEt4eF5RKLf5IA8RBmJL5glwXW/3mJlDP4fyw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=aTkvn7oKZdpj2bQs8U1G6bIVKXbeD+F0QB33S94kSe4=; b=FPDBYd17tah4TSIX+N0Awy7pB4tecFKNMckrmH9Y2rRfZ4FRhNlIjankJpIzugWlpxL1c9qyWIkb2pY/EC42klpVfi8OCypJznSb2eTnv4wqnq48JccWbYVY76S7Uf5oD1svdk8IKMb6SUhCSatImV0d5n05ZrV+JAstPYPqBbjL/wtesCwuweJRqfkSTZhNzrawk8+RhP7O1MVoc0ydbsdYBKFPci0/Amk3Hxh1rU7V4ARMK9m6cEaG1Y+qyqDoNToHjS3pkMnfLggClLIY4mPxqHubKLMZuDjMhRpOyQcBgrmM03Z8/BhhxjinjbUzLcWxm7rsVFLntHRXdO9C5g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=aTkvn7oKZdpj2bQs8U1G6bIVKXbeD+F0QB33S94kSe4=; b=zph9MYQLVwu7r6zk0VlDxP71R2DbWXDDDRwPTSNUIxOs82PTw1u162dfF+i4QTNZm79yfv3r3f8UQ7MOno3Al1xCiuSdQP6Xt8prl4bw6EcxIcH9aS2wI/Y2KiRFw9y45C9TrXVue+tVd+IiWhv0qtfo0EPc+RXjElHm7wZ6Eks= Received: from SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2af::17) by BYAPR11MB3110.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:8a::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.23; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:59:47 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7ce7:622:7eeb:c800]) by SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7ce7:622:7eeb:c800%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4457.025; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:59:47 +0000 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: Lars Eggert CC: Stephen Farrell , John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "Livingood, Jason" , "manycouches@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Manycouches] [admin-discuss] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings Thread-Index: AQHXnnCX56EZ0da9DEeeMWdOnzduzKuNtMsA Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:59:47 +0000 Message-ID: <0B23F8D0-8366-4FAA-8B39-7231F6835BE9@cisco.com> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) authentication-results: eggert.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;eggert.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 69190bef-8cfb-450d-24a7-08d96c8ff991 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB3110: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(366004)(346002)(316002)(4326008)(38070700005)(33656002)(6916009)(83380400001)(71200400001)(8936002)(76116006)(8676002)(2616005)(966005)(53546011)(6486002)(66946007)(6506007)(54906003)(4001150100001)(36756003)(2906002)(66556008)(122000001)(66476007)(38100700002)(86362001)(478600001)(64756008)(66446008)(5660300002)(6512007)(186003)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?jrhoGb3z+Escs7vxkU0QbSKe7ojkvlnisowbD+deNYFFANLpSiWvTCXLMhtQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?xBxTKHHTEWq74lnuFlBHXt7rQEcX0z2f7qBGVu0jgBL1mMB0su2SVqIOC091?= =?us-ascii?Q?uUm9MijCYBxdmspw8OUYShKq05YjWhTYJ+QBtSp9U8axAO6GzHgCfwQN6wRi?= =?us-ascii?Q?Qp3+EJqOR3Tu60oMp0WyGDSvgUwWIiCSreD1ALmwvp5wKwswkEBusgNe0RsD?= =?us-ascii?Q?bmvyH/lxe2K7LzRn5MVY4LgSTeO68QgRLLRR8Md1cpJipnrgzN5SVpXYlk2k?= =?us-ascii?Q?2sv4cP3o4YFuejMexRR+SyhJMwjVpx0548O8hPPdJF32hH5EzODPGCHe2L0L?= =?us-ascii?Q?Xv+dtxvSIXqnXJyFFZ3T9SkmzxoMV/K7xHmY0ugrwlgVRFbJomWVHhKjfun0?= =?us-ascii?Q?3794RFV0YXL+MVPVpBONkO7Qt5HAS64lYq0CCqGv9zoUqsg3Zq8BgqcDHgHw?= =?us-ascii?Q?lVuEYBH+euK4QUCXg+qkOy6K0DD2E3kkw0+xfEsGnBl+H3F4bAHSqO87re89?= =?us-ascii?Q?kVmViIED6DssSJQVlzlv3k6GeiQC00eSAYraHbv0h8PXiHvNaAS4dldQg/kT?= =?us-ascii?Q?5RZckXFb8zKHxQA85aeN8Q0+It8Kn5z+faFQLhlt1fjiBsOG2yadUPVpHxT0?= =?us-ascii?Q?WyyqBYCsefLgKMTSwLrBHnKkRPGkWv4r3e54lpQLOpbePCWxtsQEM1+vHF2G?= =?us-ascii?Q?TsBf0vYUeFY0O6HneW8lfmCbjpooAKdVBt7oVNZ04DCVJ3N+kDfzW0b1xX3h?= =?us-ascii?Q?DkAuV4Tu3+F+Yx0c+HvUvt4KpWDb5NKk9OHzDPH2Gsn2TczzYzeqqumBXnYj?= =?us-ascii?Q?Gos9oc8QLr//bJrEO/mL8WEWgItIT+Ae8SjgOQ+H7Ebfcr/RF1/dMknkEDXF?= =?us-ascii?Q?97BPe4RaETG/FR3FRQIuui1sATUK4vSFGSTfm/NcCe7Rhn8KzQdopjf7F0wh?= =?us-ascii?Q?aZITtYIM/Fid3oqL74xXq2lK6EgB0vMZyQOf0F5+z9ljSoi/eERq8RZb7kFu?= =?us-ascii?Q?mDTIMrGT2IP5qdiIN0RDemxc9HBgj8CcZPsUvWeS0bfajhAzroAng5JOg8ZK?= =?us-ascii?Q?OOowa2yl7MWGbZ8GfRjoHy/iOfqvyUMQYt85OfaVwG5hijUsZTaic/tiieJg?= =?us-ascii?Q?47fGJzlYFt1B0wF4hz5EzH2zoG6vOytkaAAyGxxpOJtBbHH3ajUhFfa/2O1J?= =?us-ascii?Q?+bZn7CcFtFRAzwuKfsnKV2Wq72/FHS6grCFuUyvCfp2u5VwBDtFO/d1OkDk/?= =?us-ascii?Q?KX7y/LA2ctidpY3ab+/PJVL/5NGtQBEzorMI5+w4ttNn9P5oxmM+gJ8Q8rT6?= =?us-ascii?Q?TCnEnDF2XV63D+DgcorA6eC8PQ5ukYHCWrdtnXI/PQH7ORFNLTI5vunP2khL?= =?us-ascii?Q?9+ovIq4/mshAeYNHmpXuUutTV4+7?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 69190bef-8cfb-450d-24a7-08d96c8ff991 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2021 14:59:47.1254 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vg77AxvLl6usiJERTsHm/PmSJmmq6wJccq2Gp5uLTYhX4NXZ1q/e7gy6QLgwnZMLlxOPp1vt/AxKhWuInNUDWQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3110 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.21, xbe-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:00:05 -0000 On Aug 31, 2021, at 6:59 AM, Lars Eggert wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > On 2021-8-31, at 16:30, Stephen Farrell wrote= : >> 1) The meeting agenda for such "hybrid" meetings might be a >> thing to consider from scratch, e.g. more hackathon and more >> chances for people to meet/chat outside WG sessions may be a >> good idea for the IESG to seriously consider. Or maybe to >> have more topic-driven sessions that don't map 1:1 to WGs >> or BoFs. >=20 > agreed. If more people are remote than are attending in person, that woul= d probably suggest that we should structure the day more like we currently = do for fully online meetings, i.e., limit session times to ~6h/day. That w= ould make remote attendance probably not worse than for a fully online meet= ing, and would also leave more time for direct interactions for those who a= re attending in person, compared to a regular meeting. >=20 > (There are of course other things we might want to change for a hybrid me= eting.) >=20 >> 2) Not for our first few "hybrid" meetings, but if the f2f >> attendees go down to say 500, and if running 8 parallel WG >> sessions is less of a deal, then I guess we could consider >> different kinds of meeting venue, e.g. universities out of >> term, smaller hotels etc which might indicate revisions to >> the meeting venue criteria over the next year or more. >=20 > The secretariat is already looking into venues that in the past have been= excluded due to size issues but that are otherwise ticking all our boxes. = I think venues we did a past site visit for are being looked at with some p= riority (to avoid site visit travel during COVID). It may not be appropriate to reduce the size of the venue too much, or at l= east not proportional to the anticipated decrease in the in-person attendan= ce. At least in the short term, I believe we need to explicitly plan for ex= tra capacity per room to allow for social distancing. Most conference room = setups have very little space between rows and between chairs. I would be m= uch more at ease attending an in person meeting if I knew there would be mo= re space between rows/seats. Cheers, Charles >=20 > I don't think universities are being looked into currently, and I'm not s= ure whether they would fulfill the requirements in RFC 8718. If someone wit= h a university affiliation would like to make that suggestion, https://www.= ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/ has a form that can be submitted to start t= hat process. >=20 > Thanks, > Lars >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Manycouches mailing list > Manycouches@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches From nobody Tue Aug 31 08:26:49 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B143A139F; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 08:26:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BWT5SDF1x861; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 08:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E31373A18F5; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 08:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1mL5du-0009zc-DP; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:25:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:25:36 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Lars Eggert , Stephen Farrell cc: "Livingood, Jason" , admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:26:29 -0000 --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 16:59 +0300 Lars Eggert wrote: >... > I don't think universities are being looked into currently, > and I'm not sure whether they would fulfill the requirements > in RFC 8718. If someone with a university affiliation would > like to make that suggestion, > https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/planning/ has a form that > can be submitted to start that process. Lars, FWIW and without taking a position on whether universities would be a good fit today (I just have not thought about it and is has been many years since I worked at one), it may be worth remembering that that IETF held many of its early meetings at university-based facilities so we do have some experience with them. I also think that what is being suggested is a fairly open, blank-page, examination of what would best serve the IETF and its mission going forward. While I would hope and assume that the conclusions of such an examination would be largely consistent with RFCs 8718, 87819, and several other documents and statements, I think it would be more useful to do the review and then determine whether the results need to be modified to match those documents or vice versa. I trust it is not what you had in mind, but starting out with a constraint that the review could consider only options consistent with our (recent) historical model might make that review almost useless. Or not, but the risk exists. best, john From nobody Tue Aug 31 09:42:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F223A1C3C; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:42:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cABpSjbFiKfx; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 411AF3A1C36; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663A238FE6; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Yto-iQjgvvEs; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100F038FE5; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00493D5; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:41:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "admin-discuss\@ietf.org" , "manycouches\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0B23F8D0-8366-4FAA-8B39-7231F6835BE9@cisco.com> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <0B23F8D0-8366-4FAA-8B39-7231F6835BE9@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:42:02 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\) wrote: > It may not be appropriate to reduce the size of the venue too much, or > at least not proportional to the anticipated decrease in the in-person > attendance. At least in the short term, I believe we need to explicit= ly > plan for extra capacity per room to allow for social distancing. Most > conference room setups have very little space between rows and between > chairs. I would be much more at ease attending an in person meeting if > I knew there would be more space between rows/seats. Independant of "social distancing", I find that the density of the chairs often renders 50% of them inaccessible anyway, and we'd be better off with = fewer chairs, more tables, and all chairs in use. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmEuW8oACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWwyQgAuogAhqalfV0tbFkx4pbx2m+HI90kWiJoCzzIzPvTfDQ2ooPrYdDmnsx3 PjpU4NYz5VM3YDUINh2qgafd9YgkylnzJBd1pDrFHKldpAA4E1GV/J25u4ZpeTdJ YfXeOqprJnkQZEDOukjH0OB4zQ6HhcAQE97Dovpf73s+YYgwizdDcq+JcQZYcQ08 /m7WPV6HOdEz8+Wd7Ty5ZEHvNwb0TaoExGdAApEH03VPVGpD/BeQ6i8dQLZYPg+i jq6HtYw1kD6pbNN8Q2ABq/c/a+kIXU8y+dt8JISf8KCyTVWzNJhpLNEk4jYrCrHd E8mT/sJmNma7ykxtRXOF8dTpw/w2JQ== =btSm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 10:08:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43F33A1D32; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z2JTgF5Jm1ET; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb31.google.com (mail-yb1-xb31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 130663A1D2F; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb31.google.com with SMTP id f4so4542529ybr.5; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=IGiIZSgh5BdexamAjBc3KsOq3lca0f9kJz1MqT+jVf4=; b=Y/1pstZ7XwTgV7falR+gpcKteTCBkx9K8C1ejmkkZBacE4DjDW9nHNxEvwmeMilWSF 0j0At2rPtC113fjijP1QOEKqv1NQKkXDj6xx6FtRcRYRynBt1xvXhk8xZr+X+95RT+Bv xujtxj9AQpuZXdyokvhepLfX9sDTZADxJPHZ8y3bbWyIBBwzdejlIxuj6TmOwzHGshV2 avwoSJWLxNpS9ma7AVbfHMC1w16Zogu6xalJ0wF0hmEisSugOH0sjw8NOYkz0pcg4Wwp KvxVwa/ZuNiJN7Mr2AKfVvIGD2WTqV5vIJ4xoYSu8xnCNX02gcEic+voqm8zqwy2FAts Hamg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IGiIZSgh5BdexamAjBc3KsOq3lca0f9kJz1MqT+jVf4=; b=sgFVmV4p4LN6eihP+f+csw6NXBy4PcWd/OpVvGcxpTG3eRURPkJAclFQnYL7dS7/gM o6OFz4Do0oo/3KEjqyq30s2AYJStQGIJc1+MNerS/Pr5iG5vaJs51jNykGrVLkmwlZz+ qmXSfWNss4HByx1RJQW3l6iZPl8LuXuTQHE7Z1fomvePDX7gOoTjtlxD/5u19vXjMkUh Nc3oj5UlwDHp/X7/bO6Ya4wmwV9VqFXwd1FLKZyAc/wxRNHQP26XBkxBOVA6hqINS6XJ uM9yPpVlK66diyNo6JTpQsF71MYRO+lRgsaGUctvI8c+yOi9tA3ijMQXGcly+JDgOkvQ muzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5314yDxlLAtQbtk2p4Ho9tS6RfFFhIhJBPVgoim72111gTWtv6lO G4c+VZbstuBRgJxGlCPkgvPC5iLvDGOlk4q7i5PwgUEXfbw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJypUbDNk1ewPyZM5q5NBF51Qz6mjGWofdG6EZUDeaaziUzjNbCbORuX9AeD6Srsj0WftGHCBJdwtRJTmO9kQcM= X-Received: by 2002:a25:a4e5:: with SMTP id g92mr32975073ybi.327.1630429694585; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:08:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c6ef8f05caddfea7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:08:22 -0000 --000000000000c6ef8f05caddfea7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:30 AM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > On 31/08/2021 14:15, Livingood, Jason wrote: > > > > [JL] This is a good point and it seems like this is the very pivot > > point we in the community now face. The COVID pandemic will not > > magically go away so instead of focusing on looking ahead in 4-month > > increments while hoping the global health situation may take a turn > > for the better, it is time to look at bit over the horizon. I suspect > > there's consensus on that. Thinking of the long-term what's next > > question will necessarily require the engagement of all of the key > > leadership groups of the IETF and the community as a whole > > (especially SHMOO) & there are no quick or easy answers. That said, I > > think we do know enough that our first meeting to have some in-person > > attendance will likely involve a smaller number of in-person > > attendees than pre-COVID, and that it will be a hybrid of in-person > > and online, which is what Jay is (tactically) focused on right now > > with this consultation (since it will require venue negotiations, > > etc.). > > > > [JL] From a personal perspective, maybe we (the community writ large) > > have an opportunity for a sort of idealized redesign process - clean > > sheet - and asking if we established a new SDO now what would be the > > most effective and efficient ways of meeting and collaborating > > synchronously & asynchronously. A lot of what we do works well in an > > asynch model, especially given we cover all time zones. At the same > > time, periodic f2f is good for relationship building & trust > > building. On the other hand, online meetings (large or small) have > > the opportunity to broaden engagement and attract new participants as > > the bar for participation is lower. How to put all that together for > > the next 10 years is the tough part. ;-) > > I agree with the above. > > Two further thoughts: > > 1) The meeting agenda for such "hybrid" meetings might be a > thing to consider from scratch, e.g. more hackathon and more > chances for people to meet/chat outside WG sessions may be a > good idea for the IESG to seriously consider. Or maybe to > have more topic-driven sessions that don't map 1:1 to WGs > or BoFs. > > 2) Not for our first few "hybrid" meetings, but if the f2f > attendees go down to say 500, and if running 8 parallel WG > sessions is less of a deal, then I guess we could consider > different kinds of meeting venue, e.g. universities out of > term, smaller hotels etc which might indicate revisions to > the meeting venue criteria over the next year or more. > > I remember BBF (Broadband Forum) had smaller attendance and used smaller hotels. For example in Prague, we met at Marriott instead of the grandiose Hilton where IETF meetings were held. One more difference, BBF used to offer free lunches which were quite well received by the attendees. So smaller attendance could lead to change of services. However, I must admit, most of us attending BBF meetings did prefer Hilton than Marriott. I am neutral on universities but it could be nice to meet at places like Stanford, UCLA, Harvard or MIT. Maybe Oxford in London. They have beautiful campuses. Behcet > Cheers, > S. > > > _______________________________________________ > Manycouches mailing list > Manycouches@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches > --000000000000c6ef8f05caddfea7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:30 AM Steph= en Farrell <stephen.farrell= @cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

Hiya,

On 31/08/2021 14:15, Livingood, Jason wrote:
>
> [JL] This is a good point and it seems like this is the very pivot
> point we in the community now face. The COVID pandemic will not
> magically go away so instead of focusing on looking ahead in 4-month > increments while hoping the global health situation may take a turn > for the better, it is time to look at bit over the horizon. I suspect<= br> > there's consensus on that. Thinking of the long-term what's ne= xt
> question will necessarily require the engagement of all of the key
> leadership groups of the IETF and the community as a whole
> (especially SHMOO) & there are no quick or easy answers. That said= , I
> think we do know enough that our first meeting to have some in-person<= br> > attendance will likely involve a smaller number of in-person
> attendees than pre-COVID, and that it will be a hybrid of in-person > and online, which is what Jay is (tactically) focused on right now
> with this consultation (since it will require venue negotiations,
> etc.).
>
> [JL] From a personal perspective, maybe we (the community writ large)<= br> > have an opportunity for a sort of idealized redesign process - clean > sheet - and asking if we established a new SDO now what would be the > most effective and efficient ways of meeting and collaborating
> synchronously & asynchronously. A lot of what we do works well in = an
> asynch model, especially given we cover all time zones. At the same > time, periodic f2f is good for relationship building & trust
> building. On the other hand, online meetings (large or small) have
> the opportunity to broaden engagement and attract new participants as<= br> > the bar for participation is lower. How to put all that together for > the next 10 years is the tough part. ;-)

I agree with the above.

Two further thoughts:

1) The meeting agenda for such "hybrid" meetings might be a
thing to consider from scratch, e.g. more hackathon and more
chances for people to meet/chat outside WG sessions may be a
good idea for the IESG to seriously consider. Or maybe to
have more topic-driven sessions that don't map 1:1 to WGs
or BoFs.

2) Not for our first few "hybrid" meetings, but if the f2f
attendees go down to say 500, and if running 8 parallel WG
sessions is less of a deal, then I guess we could consider
different kinds of meeting venue, e.g. universities out of
term, smaller hotels etc which might indicate revisions to
the meeting venue criteria over the next year or more.



I remember BBF (Broadba= nd Forum) had smaller attendance and used smaller hotels.
For exa= mple in Prague, we met at Marriott instead of the grandiose Hilton where IE= TF meetings were held.
One more difference, BBF used to offer fre= e lunches which were quite well received by the attendees. So smaller atten= dance could lead to change of services.
However, I must admit, mo= st of us attending BBF meetings did prefer Hilton than Marriott.
=
I am neutral on universities but it could be nice to meet at= places like Stanford, UCLA, Harvard or MIT. Maybe Oxford in=C2=A0London.
They have beautiful campuses.
=C2=A0
Behcet
Cheers,
S.


_______________________________________________
Manycouches mailing list
Manycouches@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches
--000000000000c6ef8f05caddfea7-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 10:08:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7613A1D38; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36jyZlBersZ9; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1AF43A1D33; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:1d1f:3f58:e36a:a55c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 763F5600A84; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:08:28 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1630429708; bh=5/dUVO/tqLUQV4HiQbapxUtpU8D/i5Gi7u1pULSbYgA=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=w6MqAwpfzbvgIl2IYbJV6lE1c2dLrmxuX0mU3xX9OuSQIuQ3DfsQJynY7PtEifDlc tKd4pTX9cVSGo4RzlnBER3C/t27GUyaU6BtP6bBUOklKwU7k1+ENu1a6tftJ+NsVvw mdUjCTXoouYpMrJDv4GoXWPuGRVcd1bK2DKA94ZA= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC0BA066-4DA2-4ED8-B474-90690F32112E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:08:28 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: Stephen Farrell , admin-discuss@ietf.org, "Livingood, Jason" , manycouches@ietf.org To: John C Klensin References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> X-MailScanner-ID: 763F5600A84.A220C X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:08:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC0BA066-4DA2-4ED8-B474-90690F32112E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-8-31, at 18:25, John C Klensin wrote: > FWIW and without taking a position on whether universities would > be a good fit today (I just have not thought about it and is has > been many years since I worked at one), it may be worth > remembering that that IETF held many of its early meetings at > university-based facilities so we do have some experience with > them. I am aware of this. And if we can find a university with facilities that = match the stated desires of the community (per RFC8718/9, etc.) we = should definitely evaluate them. I somewhat doubt that the "empty = classrooms during term breaks" suggestion from Stephen would allow = hosting a meeting that would be congruent with the expressed community = expectations. But I may be wrong. And some universities now have = dedicated meeting spaces, e.g., UCLA built a new one that successfully = hosted SIGCOMM 2017. But such spaces are not necessarily more economical = than hotels. > I also think that what is being suggested is a fairly open, > blank-page, examination of what would best serve the IETF and > its mission going forward. While I would hope and assume that > the conclusions of such an examination would be largely > consistent with RFCs 8718, 87819, and several other documents > and statements, I think it would be more useful to do the review > and then determine whether the results need to be modified to > match those documents or vice versa. I trust it is not what you > had in mind, but starting out with a constraint that the review > could consider only options consistent with our (recent) > historical model might make that review almost useless. Or not, > but the risk exists. I'd agree with this. The current guidance from the community was very = much written with the conventional "full-scale" plenary meetings in = mind. If the community is now interested in revising this guidance, for = smaller-scale hybrid meetings and/or more generally, because of COVID or = other reason (e.g., prolonged reduced travel due to climate change), I'd = support that activity. Whether this starts with someone suggesting a university site they = believe (mostly) satisfies our meeting criteria, or if it starts by = someone suggesting revisions to the guidance is not so important to me = personally. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_EC0BA066-4DA2-4ED8-B474-90690F32112E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmEuYgwACgkQVLXDCb9w wVcArRAA1q5GMZ9QEmoKDuQ1isPH7PiYL81XvynHaCRCqRBnLeecvDS8FXtqdM3u sYpudq5YnBAeNiW0U5XhjPZODtrpzcOrht8gDqix308f0YLtiyPUlJ2QlX4O7v/C yiyZV4/fqJxBqrmIN5Uy1BHoYlaEHxVzKxbi7DS3pypnp28PbC1ygk1WhaTn7j3s QB04vMRLkEaAW2iM8PxnH+97mEbKVqEk7ZDP3FZb1yEKTy1FvAlJPvQkuSFVQhNT 5h6vPyJfh7Lkek5FoQuUaX2A9uTxLUzvsMkLdQwW2MX5t5fd7HI4cA1b5CXmOWtR 93C5jlY0e4OUWn+NvHNhXkavRAvW6DmxQHUaJNSS7PuN+Lhc/5iaL/2YmJIkYqTz 990dYMm0cFAau9yyzI0k/1Uh+79d0AR60j4hHx0OS97UxDAlK2c3ZQDcJN5OOJG/ +hjmvNn+q1zdeKokIN1hLa0AM5932GjXpMh7ENPI6v8TVQkXK+9AmNCDIKrEaTTQ tGCGkU08gJW36DmSZtyZ+aFFz4JBTFo9Kw1jTpF0zpA+OzC2p9UymdmYynCcK9Sj DqZHylJB5LqsHtY7fjwIPCuBJG22OU5lSOO+q5oiaTYBu0C5VWC/bk3KWEURT1/0 VQcEdf29blHal7MI3yhV4jwc8HI7qxnbghYIQrEWcdcFr05IiuM= =6yDK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EC0BA066-4DA2-4ED8-B474-90690F32112E-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 10:10:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2574C3A1D6E; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:10:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rz4ci3P9efym; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 513243A1D6A; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:1d1f:3f58:e36a:a55c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 90EFA600373; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:10:28 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1630429828; bh=eqviH4PtXy3FkDg3qocWzJ7AZak12VX7cQ2nQXYh5fY=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=QXFk/edaCARilNpbDoOJUySqjVpF+wp0uaZQ1Lt0dcChuH6HjxQjH04TOmi+l6KIP aeY7sENrNqTzsskxtHFJsB1BLIE1S2aXRj+74k7zOSJbwvJRDDcPTLCQiukoqm/KFh V0JTf4Ud3HJ5vONdwsVJAiZh5DWZgniscchlGXAg= From: Lars Eggert Message-Id: <1D9EF6FC-2F98-4E11-9261-8B9AED7D2ED4@eggert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2761F045-351F-494B-97A2-142833033BF3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 20:10:28 +0300 In-Reply-To: <0B23F8D0-8366-4FAA-8B39-7231F6835BE9@cisco.com> Cc: John C Klensin , "admin-discuss@ietf.org" , "manycouches@ietf.org" , "Livingood, Jason" , Stephen Farrell To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <0B23F8D0-8366-4FAA-8B39-7231F6835BE9@cisco.com> X-MailScanner-ID: 90EFA600373.A3744 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:10:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2761F045-351F-494B-97A2-142833033BF3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2021-8-31, at 17:59, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) = wrote: > It may not be appropriate to reduce the size of the venue too much, or = at least not proportional to the anticipated decrease in the in-person = attendance. At least in the short term, I believe we need to explicitly = plan for extra capacity per room to allow for social distancing. Most = conference room setups have very little space between rows and between = chairs. I would be much more at ease attending an in person meeting if I = knew there would be more space between rows/seats. for COVID-impacted meetings, we are of course taking the relevant = regulations at the place of the meeting into account, including = providing for social distancing space. Thanks, Lars --Apple-Mail=_2761F045-351F-494B-97A2-142833033BF3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmEuYoQACgkQVLXDCb9w wVcFoxAAsTu2ymAmKxxihqPi7IFvF80F5Nw3NmiU/HZSgLyLYTFAQqkQW4uEpnVs yU10iuMsl6az3fP3yPu94Z8cp8uffZloeGKKJFWj7+jZU3KAD/7s4X1yCQIu9c6e zPYid9u69vq7JxtzcjRnp6Ea0IOBGNbzXaQUo82pmod8KEt4YEDJyqZkuDUHk2z3 UTNj7lE/GUIrmbQDrGQQQUofhKhFy7yFBkmHL6lgxq66JdFrgcOIH6DxpkkaOEEn gil0Q8z811wFO7NZIltHuIc7fR1mm7/sFfHJuckqpdEcX722MSbE/9E+2lsKH/eh CzDOqDGGVIxaHbOIquX0XBoUYsOYIWeZzW7U5dAv3kOkJa4a0DFGIZHV4Wais75n LL4ALllAAm2gOpt3J5pZTj6ib3n1GzLXxQ2cuzmNlNr/D5sWbwCF3bgwD25XEhwB 9iLsnVSeXlv0U0lw/yC8rjVxFBwggGNyI3vG98XzzXgW/Gr3NOGKdQBkk4Qa1byh ei5R4voZajt30zsilAzW6uri3P1hgQJOjhpUgL/mM5z8PeQ7rPYPcsf+oQrj6EvY gp5UGpAfE3sAZjpdqGDJg/ukmw4eiUu7TZY6LZ8q5zBmiT0LwMaSxl060b1KakqD ktq5BwxbbllaDUM/da+TW9NNES3NiEcDj2tc7Ttk5Pwwt+SjE3s= =RCUK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2761F045-351F-494B-97A2-142833033BF3-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 10:33:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649303A1EDB; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uM_R82yWNMaL; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3DB73A1EDA; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1mL7dY-000AVh-K4; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:33:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 13:33:22 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Lars Eggert cc: Stephen Farrell , admin-discuss@ietf.org, "Livingood, Jason" , manycouches@ietf.org Message-ID: <109C4222625346A7C6902571@PSB> In-Reply-To: <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:33:41 -0000 --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 20:08 +0300 Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-8-31, at 18:25, John C Klensin > wrote: >> FWIW and without taking a position on whether universities >> would be a good fit today (I just have not thought about it >> and is has been many years since I worked at one), it may be >> worth remembering that that IETF held many of its early >> meetings at university-based facilities so we do have some >> experience with them. > > I am aware of this. And if we can find a university with > facilities that match the stated desires of the community (per > RFC8718/9, etc.) we should definitely evaluate them. I > somewhat doubt that the "empty classrooms during term breaks" > suggestion from Stephen would allow hosting a meeting that > would be congruent with the expressed community expectations. > But I may be wrong. And some universities now have dedicated > meeting spaces, e.g., UCLA built a new one that successfully > hosted SIGCOMM 2017. But such spaces are not necessarily more > economical than hotels. I don't know the situation around the world, but the universities of which I am most aware have also been more careful (i.e., restrictive) than the communities around them about vaccination and testing rules and generally less open to outside visitors and meetings than "let's look at universities" might suggest. I don't know anything about university-owned public conference centers but, as you point out, they are not necessarily more economical than hotels and might be less flexible. That could change over the sort of period suggested in Brian's note and I think we should avoid prematurely excluding them, but I'd be a bit surprised if they were part of the solution in the next year or two. >> I also think that what is being suggested is a fairly open, >> blank-page, examination of what would best serve the IETF and >> its mission going forward. While I would hope and assume that >> the conclusions of such an examination would be largely >> consistent with RFCs 8718, 87819, and several other documents >> and statements, I think it would be more useful to do the >> review and then determine whether the results need to be >> modified to match those documents or vice versa. I trust it >> is not what you had in mind, but starting out with a >> constraint that the review could consider only options >> consistent with our (recent) historical model might make that >> review almost useless. Or not, but the risk exists. > I'd agree with this. The current guidance from the community > was very much written with the conventional "full-scale" > plenary meetings in mind. > > If the community is now interested in revising this guidance, > for smaller-scale hybrid meetings and/or more generally, > because of COVID or other reason (e.g., prolonged reduced > travel due to climate change), I'd support that activity. Great. Thanks. > Whether this starts with someone suggesting a university site > they believe (mostly) satisfies our meeting criteria, or if it > starts by someone suggesting revisions to the guidance is not > so important to me personally. Nor to me, especially because my hunch is that, for the relatively near term, digging into the university option --at least in the absence of specific volunteer institutions -- is more likely to be a distraction than helpful. best, john From nobody Tue Aug 31 14:58:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0C93A08D5; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MG4Qel6zYR0X; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com (mail-pl1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AB1E3A08CB; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id e1so260798plt.11; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vaZFTLDWlb5utOLCHx6NpuxrN9Poqxk4zgDzVWlMXRw=; b=Cfgfva4eNryP69BWCDjoZSf7hhKN0Dh5YB6t7umlLQREV0P0P1EGtPDEF/7zLc8qNM RtDqkQrCaDmqUCSVVsLOFN7fta5UNhV2bar1f+ZRCH2uXCfcgouXwScMdSmZES1vlXuq FQSlMeoWGCZt58amNQn5pTJ3/sUwRh4k70/f4KwiF+mOlaOyUGDB0YCa+HPmn3juU3Sb Pd8QfKsHVjjXW+MCYEUGt7R81U/NRCbXBXSw+pAZ9xQj9IIANKc0XMf4g9vVn2VIYRId YckGuISb7Vmty6zLaBhK3UK/srCWnWJAh/Am02AX/TQnDJ2zMeG10ooljVjHYWAJ97Im myFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vaZFTLDWlb5utOLCHx6NpuxrN9Poqxk4zgDzVWlMXRw=; b=UEgudm5jonpartn1Dd0r6A2o0ZT1mzfqYIHuutMJTSlgF87wc1v+BwB9mfBWmpLBdW HOQf1XwNnw2u1QmmPIKlTQnvX3UylUU62t939D8DYyS96e3rQQgeGKiWTJKbkJunhCcv E+c66alfvO4bMqyJPYMbW3Bb/CQb96slodyMop3Hp0NzT2Wyj8T0G2IiFv/EhdMt8NPy yNhBlCZyMgKH8i2GctWlmX/CFL33HCDfcd+uQBicZFKAYeDxkNLqM1Pef42w15CIunX/ XcHq6SNAfOmoQKdwHjDJtyDILYj1YOYPFUnF/Uxo7nh7G9xyahw8saEnBGHtdUoEnbOQ 6mIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532gpsmwFg9lEhmZfD1Yge3We7KxeJyrOxMfh/0EH7qpKNBfu81u SdbkO2F4ot1hzIiVj99pGtR0huov3XKiWw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx59UocjFDlkEh6dt01E7wfORIuEBbvdJXE7KPc0TGrR/dB+4SDizIdEYby4n5zdlrjGVrw2w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:b00e:: with SMTP id x14mr7865757pjq.155.1630447113692; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:11d3:cf01:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:11d3:cf01:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 17sm15842501pfp.28.2021.08.31.14.58.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:58:32 -0700 (PDT) To: John C Klensin , Lars Eggert Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org, "Livingood, Jason" , Stephen Farrell References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> <109C4222625346A7C6902571@PSB> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <250f40dc-634d-98e9-8cbb-586f9d9eb19a@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 09:58:27 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <109C4222625346A7C6902571@PSB> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 21:58:41 -0000 On 01-Sep-21 05:33, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 20:08 +0300 Lars Eggert > wrote: ... >> I am aware of this. And if we can find a university with >> facilities that match the stated desires of the community (per >> RFC8718/9, etc.) we should definitely evaluate them. I >> somewhat doubt that the "empty classrooms during term breaks" >> suggestion from Stephen would allow hosting a meeting that >> would be congruent with the expressed community expectations. >> But I may be wrong. And some universities now have dedicated >> meeting spaces, e.g., UCLA built a new one that successfully >> hosted SIGCOMM 2017. But such spaces are not necessarily more >> economical than hotels. > > I don't know the situation around the world, but the > universities of which I am most aware have also been more > careful (i.e., restrictive) than the communities around them > about vaccination and testing rules and generally less open to > outside visitors and meetings than "let's look at universities" > might suggest. This. At least in NZ, the universities have been more stringent during the pandemic than pretty much everybody else (except hospitals and retirement facilities). I can imagine what would happen to a message saying "I'm thinking of hosting a one week conference with 500 people from 50 different countries, sometime in 2022, will that be OK?" I would be told to zoom off for a psychiatric evaluation. Brian From nobody Tue Aug 31 15:14:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADEEE3A09CE; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:14:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6c6KySMq0Nxv; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db8eur05on2102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.20.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D6B03A09C0; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:13:56 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Kr3dv/6v1vSODQBBGvnOwu88v3vxpRPQCUap1EFpopoRzRHE1q8YN7HH2LZhh0FwjSdJeyNrr71TT70cu/kwZBjj5+Gvhq3uh/c/mdxZ/OOgFXRxF5CB577m93EhoYnghcFE8cTMvQTs9YYkOGEPsiiX28cXamphSjLQSi3POH1M9+szn/27UoYP2ErfvdLwS/d9F7f8Y8mPalixgh3brHZvT1C90tt4qdVj1OBu/+/TMFdvjb1MaF+N4TySAs3u1TIE1S7JNrs1Y1bXMzV/o2Dziu74ObzK5tI8Bq+9J74jX6CtSn88D68QCxw4w/g2oLWhyGr1DtiZvzxvDyiCJA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=mddObjfuXar1nfA9M79vXdVis+paxKR8g9rjDyrdrME=; b=BTEUHC09KnvjgIBuvMIfxJ1EJUQCNY9AeFYjCc4zBuyWIAT6togI8XgoMFMMIkmOSLYvB1ROPKv9N5MIqMr2+QSyaC3jOIHqC275VK/oWAkdIJPp1g2EFrHBbGHogQizBheExQ+t15c9r0ZIvEDPpXcHKkuptQrAq1hSSlyAdTrFX924bPjVjecH0NIJOzaH9aqTUIMmcuzzarsiS1HJi3QZk5/1yyXShxTaLexAsO0tuKD1kjNGInjJuQATqqnxTL1Y6/4vHBJkNY3nw6LSGkGPz1RREb0eEYiGG8YylcBeDhJ+1k497rzbNSbHwmoICQlChjSPpifIaPXlAoaJ1w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=mddObjfuXar1nfA9M79vXdVis+paxKR8g9rjDyrdrME=; b=hsPglobFrclk4kpSDUfAyJMciddrKp7ghSAb6ZZ05bsJsRlC5HxMM9YqDsD5nbgHRfvpGVoRz5enUZk6ulbfTm29peAE9/lO8Z2cbmFMZ7HuF7ehTpEhcJBuA57alfgUddifpDkmR0uvay2oplksOmoVbsw3/KON4DMDFB05YRxAzSCWW6goJ4MG505eJE2NC+co26Zb7FXrYnK1YBFqqOkfm6inzzFfHKuCe40+cWVETD5dcVG+bxEU+v3yKNDVTshnrRB37iTWXzNiHKgnlM8vLiPoa/O2jbMjK72fawNguW1RV1MOX08LctPWpa7AqkuXgm7d9xqZFRS5SwD00w== Authentication-Results: dmarc.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc.ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by DB9PR02MB7193.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:25d::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.24; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 22:13:50 +0000 Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4198:a9d1:7246:8272]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4198:a9d1:7246:8272%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4457.024; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 22:13:50 +0000 To: Brian E Carpenter , John C Klensin , Lars Eggert Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org, "Livingood, Jason" References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> <109C4222625346A7C6902571@PSB> <250f40dc-634d-98e9-8cbb-586f9d9eb19a@gmail.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <3eff5de9-5092-34f9-4047-802f5ca36414@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 23:13:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 In-Reply-To: <250f40dc-634d-98e9-8cbb-586f9d9eb19a@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nzj7bxMMX4R5tmLRNTyzVMwlqWLngEJ2D" X-ClientProxiedBy: DU2PR04CA0242.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:28e::7) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [IPv6:2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:6102:a57e:b293:b7] (2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:6102:a57e:b293:b7) by DU2PR04CA0242.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:28e::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4457.22 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 22:13:49 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 92b18a91-97c2-4c35-b4c4-08d96ccc9c67 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB9PR02MB7193: X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:2150; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(8936002)(4326008)(83380400001)(36756003)(31686004)(44832011)(186003)(33964004)(2616005)(2906002)(21480400003)(66616009)(66476007)(5660300002)(110136005)(31696002)(478600001)(8676002)(86362001)(38100700002)(53546011)(66946007)(786003)(66556008)(6486002)(316002)(235185007)(43740500002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?TTFTRGNaYjA3cFA4WWU1Wjh5c0M3YUNRdU43WGt2bWZOeDBkSTZIZjhzTE9F?= =?utf-8?B?QUtkNzJORHFLNlNBZE5Mc3NYclEreGxsMTlJcmZ1M0dFVW5PbnVaN0c3bWFF?= =?utf-8?B?cWpTRUg3K292YkpSR2RtKzBuMFJiNVVBZjBDY3pmNnltTTJzWHR2Nmdnak5m?= =?utf-8?B?RG5WbGpXR1VYeEJEaWRtSHQzQjNsZDE3cysyUjFqRnlSbUxNZlIvTGtHWG1S?= =?utf-8?B?UHAvWGR0dzR0MGMrTk0wUnZsemNwYzRobUlBelZyaU8rNE1JcjV0cW1jSFNj?= =?utf-8?B?OTlNUEhGM1JveTRIVFJpWlM3V0RGYkU1Y0tsMytlNGxNZTg1MjBoRWVwY2RI?= =?utf-8?B?ZnkyWTNpMzN5R3hKSlF6b2h1dWs1TnpMTDN1cENWa1Y4c3dVTW9PNFFJUjUv?= =?utf-8?B?RjhkVVVXYVhNRmRKc0V1UUpwV0JlRDB5cVZaVUdNQmcxQmN5ZU9NT0RPeVNT?= =?utf-8?B?UmhGM1JaUGd4eFJtRStNVmVTcFVBTk9OcWZlYUV6S1RWaUJQSXhRRG9qN3Uv?= =?utf-8?B?amU4LyttK2tVeGdheDU1WkppRStKY0sxRU5tMUlhbm5Oajc4TDdHd1lJVWlq?= =?utf-8?B?OUNaWGRLQ1RXNlJvTG55NExkakdHTzFSb0h2aUd3MVUySEEyZjZueFdsc1ph?= =?utf-8?B?aURWQ1JyMjNpazh6aEwvaTNxZWhpRzU5ZVc5VXgzdi9ydHNEK0w5VFE2b3V1?= =?utf-8?B?M0c5NDhtZE1Fd09VYXlqR0dOV1RxMU9CWWRzR0pPcFNkN212TEVveXg5ZytW?= =?utf-8?B?bUYxTlpmMFdtNWNLR2J6TG9scWJCUkRydXhyQ1c0anE1M0liWnRtSy9qN3VX?= =?utf-8?B?czdmMkVzYlV5TnNSZUJjZ2pNbWlzeTVTa3NGWEFFcVU5anN5U0VQb0tsY0pY?= =?utf-8?B?Q0g5TEFmNW5XR2xRVk9NQTJ4N3ZXd09BOTZVYW9ld3FQUnREUU9QODk0R2FY?= =?utf-8?B?dXJ3OHcrZzNHd0JueU0rREdtdUliQUFPelBZSThHaytieG9ZWGRib2dyQ2pU?= =?utf-8?B?Vk11aVRVWTZET3NBTkNNUGhJd2wvY0lueDF1OXhPOE1FWG13am5qNXMrOXFU?= =?utf-8?B?a0ZNSEVWelF1V2d6eEQyOUtsaUhQeEp2NWw3b29jeHhsSWZNSHorRjZJaERo?= =?utf-8?B?UDRjQ1FCQTVDdlA1bWpYR2R2bDBaUGJrc1VyVno1VVp4Z2FuRUdBTzRoK1Q1?= =?utf-8?B?b0d0cEhMUUNVVWZYbnpid3hXUTNvdGsxdHEwMGNXS1pYUGFnV0xia0pFeHBv?= =?utf-8?B?enFXQUNKS0t5cnZBM0k3RC9UL2FaSHdsaVNYR28veGNHYjlNeEx6Q2RXTXJN?= =?utf-8?B?WjlXbGtFMnJWbHh1aktnaDg3Y3VmWTI4Qkg1d2ZLc3VwektNOWJORDRhOWVE?= =?utf-8?B?cGd0akI1UFVPKzZGemhZZGwraE9vV3Y2emhyRzVvSDN5dlZDOXBpNlowS3c2?= =?utf-8?B?SlE3eXNtTW5KNG5NbVVISkwrZmFxSkhCZHZmQ0toS3ByWWV4Z1kxTjhvcTBx?= =?utf-8?B?ZE9XYmFlTUlJbTdSQldBZDhvR05PTU5WZW82bkRGTytvUFM3aXJFVm9RcWhJ?= =?utf-8?B?ekJ3L3gzZm8zalhDS1kzWXlhei8rRUlOT3NBQVR6YUJPMXdPVzUvSWs4Mmw4?= =?utf-8?B?dmZSalVxTCttcHc0MDIvY01GTXBpVGppNmExU3pFdUgrZmtkbUNSdkh2eWJD?= =?utf-8?B?US9BKzJTeHJGWk1HT0d5eU90Z3NXRGpUenVIbkNFdEFtRnRNZ1Iza2pxSUlx?= =?utf-8?B?RHlMWmRPZEN4MklPY1RmdmJiRnN6SlBjeHJNR1R5Ujd3cm9GVE94MmFnYkFj?= =?utf-8?B?S1V5RWF2SHlYb2lVM2xEdC83UmI3YytnQXdiZ3AwbjlBZHRoNFM0RnN6eWpy?= =?utf-8?Q?AoK8al5RKu4Xz?= X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 92b18a91-97c2-4c35-b4c4-08d96ccc9c67 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2021 22:13:50.4785 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 6L00zJ/WB/Pt35TJq0yAeOetdr7WYLvKFKGuMWKYC9icYgdI3o8koc4jO/37Pvqx X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB9PR02MB7193 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 22:14:06 -0000 --nzj7bxMMX4R5tmLRNTyzVMwlqWLngEJ2D Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="KByUSEWklwMP9WiPWKYIoc9V7kkdzPmca"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Brian E Carpenter , John C Klensin , Lars Eggert Cc: admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org, "Livingood, Jason" Message-ID: <3eff5de9-5092-34f9-4047-802f5ca36414@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings References: <78D7E7B7-47B8-4E0E-B58F-CEBEC9E15750@ietf.org> <346.1630341399@localhost> <519f12ba-9a50-daa3-701e-2da78fe2d7b6@gmail.com> <5A19BC12-472E-4E91-BE22-86A64BFBD9ED@cable.comcast.com> <34921d43-df14-abe8-97f8-6adc529a0a2e@cs.tcd.ie> <529EEC6F-A2A7-49C5-AD17-8F14324FC2FC@eggert.org> <109C4222625346A7C6902571@PSB> <250f40dc-634d-98e9-8cbb-586f9d9eb19a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <250f40dc-634d-98e9-8cbb-586f9d9eb19a@gmail.com> --KByUSEWklwMP9WiPWKYIoc9V7kkdzPmca Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------619778769B1D663B6DCC5A18" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------619778769B1D663B6DCC5A18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 31/08/2021 22:58, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > This. At least in NZ, the universities have been more stringent > during the pandemic than pretty much everybody else (except > hospitals and retirement facilities). I can imagine what would > happen to a message saying "I'm thinking of hosting a one > week conference with 500 people from 50 different countries, > sometime in 2022, will that be OK?" I would be told to zoom > off for a psychiatric evaluation. In the hope of not needing further messages like this, please note that my original suggestion caveated this with "not for the 1st few hybrid meetings" so correctly guessing that meeting in a university in 2022 won't happen is not really relevant. Maybe in ~2024 though, which was what I at least intended to suggest be considered. Cheers, S. --------------619778769B1D663B6DCC5A18 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY Ea7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8D= VQu 8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5XiHzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER= 8la 5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABzSFTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwgPHN0ZXBoZW5AamVsbC5pZT7CwX0EE= wEI ACcFAlo9UYwCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQWrL68XsXK+qGC= xAA pYHWYgGOIL3G6/OpkejdAkQoCVQAK8LJUSf6vzwost4iVfxIKcKW/3RqKNKkrRl8beJ7j1CWX= Az9 +VXAOsE9+zNxXIDgGA7HlvJnhffl+qwibVgiHgUcJFhCSbBrsjC+1uULaTU8zYEyET//GOGPL= F+X +degkE/sesh4zcEAjF7fGPnlncdCCH3tvPZZsdTcjwOCRVonKsDgQzBTCMz/RPBfEFX44HZx4= g1U QAcCA4xlucY8QkJEyCrSNGpGnvGK8DcGSmnstl1/a9fnlhpdFxieX3oY2phJ1WKkYTn6Advre= k3U P71CKxpgtPmkd3iUUz/VZa0Cv6YxQXskspRDVEvdCMYSQBtJPQ4y2+5UxVR9GIQXenwYp9AP2= niv Voh+ITsDWWeWnnvYMq07rSDjq0nGdj41MJkNX+Yb2PXVyXItcj5ybE3T2+y3pSBGFEZYJGuaL= 4Nw tBJFMOdOtBmUOPbetS2971EL3Izxb7ibOZWDwexv+8R6SWYfP1wVN3p46RyBQuXqJV8ccE11m= 6vt ZTGSYgnLUUFZMRQYH+0hwuYe0T3AA18xDdSYsa8vovCCd3l5S4UNzIM2PMChqGrEzKapUpZg7= +8A CcxRU3b9Ihd7WYjJ+pQPCoWYKozvtEvenbNpE/govO/ED3B14e+R2yevRPjRrsN7PJzSf15fQ= LvC wFwEEAEIAAYFAlo9UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLrSwf+MIHbFRQ4O5cmLYR5sIByWelN3SuRN/gW8= rpK o9OkCz6An8uV/iCXy5tNMLzzi0BFl8f22DwBcC5qy9qnlIAdogWam1qWoTAoAD8veEqmuKhYr= qJs CcAyNrKYmK0hP3rpHxx1LySDmKYXmw/8qtBXKHTouMm+5tSsznhykRMTAAr2p7PSaHgo+hIVa= W/r KSspHjDhhZS+G9mtOZad1IH29M6G1Q1NCO0Ywe8krKLQIAQlFxtgvOqpPOZNzeKBa/+KbE8TG= gMW rkOhC8OeEM5PVzdDhlhD9kPzB/pCKDF5DofJ/ZRqnDpbKPQ0bsW38AOig3kOc0A27awiBEw3u= rqR 1cLBcwQQAQgAHRYhBH4XCgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g1MSBQJbtyScAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSI/oP/= 0A9 J9nrnBMqZpm857lfYWw+rshLK+tyeP4OQeOqnDFvs9jePpcyJLG3DF2r6VbVKPQq+AE6Uf5hc= JBD EN6BjEhRPSbLcqG3A1cz/nNwm8rPmNp+oKhmaBBQGxwciMLmzgynsDydnjPpMyEs04zvsbsl4= vrp 2095o105l8KcrrxQrioFjbwveGwHQK9bxJKhx9D+gIk+MouBur45UDKTZkMZrr9FGrtkyXCGA= xvK dcNC5Oa8z9sj1rcUJfG/OpVAMWhArdlZbFUQyoX6pU2Zb1CR2qpWAVerGSfBhmfCyStjARqaK= xlf tjO+Bj3Jj73Cr5eqej3qB5+V4BCsPjr4RLvVbYUCPsRdxWc+nBLlfVYkRURu21g1hFm5KFPjg= Uky o1s4vjUOY8DyI+xLGF7f/IhUBG6l+Vswhpwu7ydalZkeFiPx5xna5NfbEYxvsIf71DvipGvIO= aHv X4egWoFgm8n/9c3rcMxJtpwHPSsUt5dgLsyu6VE0IbvOAc3dN7CWJ355DVFJq9Zg2YVf0izSp= yyz JeGsgkfjW6xpmdvZxuT2UcN4BTcm6vYqueASGrb3lfhzC5gpeVsc/MoSjTS65vNWbpzONZWMZ= uLE FraxWJzC0JrDK3NCd0VN3kstqGkVbUIiYOnUm8Vu4zoVMLlGWzHLIGoPRG2nRezn1YyNfyb5w= sDc BBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8pK1gE7QL/ApC5P68W5DrI1787WJVZv1u4t/g39vTr7Xer= 3UM TVQg10vpa7pmqOGhjIDzDMg3Pe3K3M7fVzfAlUA1qw6ne4RCueVoRKpubeF4AlYbMr0K6hNCP= jt5 uAxmbBVuejKTc6pru5rv5gKL0nDbr+Snft5xt7juBLSSimw0/41sZnkjCxo9rF/RA/v6+uWyK= 171 RKmsEYu8fFtw1eqUNt/Xj792TUixE3pxXheNtQtZGk/9P3W83ChhG4Fh5EQsn0pIh9wZIAbMR= Lpg RKyW87fWHZC8/YH8h7afarvn9Thl5pFUldCe22mNJj6KLChn2aEHQd+PdY1GBpZEcmNEUPuov= wza tM0h64hCzTm41eDqRfihZVBT7TbfXQnv8rywa42Mk756RGzzEZcQEhwQXZcMQUfxIQQ2VyJo0= zG3 6VdZTQF7TF/4Lz7/3cJ56jOIm+dwPXtu+C2wAQuD4USOLt4JWPYpqzDfHYJIND/497P9Z9SuQ= eah r2ez3DRBg3qsHEjBV80yU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsICgyMDE3KSA8c3RlcGhlbi5mYXJyZWxsQ= GNz LnRjZC5pZT7CwYAEEwEIACoCGwMFCQmUJgAFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AFAlo+o= 3cC GQEACgkQWrL68XsXK+qO0A//ZsfQzyXrZlu/eEV5jU620yeOM3P7SW3C3UQYdCgZ/TlvxGgKo= w5o DSXgjMiUyq9csGqbPBxlDYSxFZHNeDVKYIuP2ZK24tw5k6duTh4+sFwUualTMlcp0zBCIzn3h= Rcs RvuPKHfl5+6oOi0+xqx3jX/s/69L/fvHmdSKet5LIUAxoYaZkTCruFrPWb01tgAl5JExWkhmC= Y98 iD+EeiIMAWBjMw1xV+p0uCwNbN6XDzcToK7wsm+tAIiWUy3DpP60a6WbVwdV0HNt2WZq5U5Jd= h2k 4S+sN2CnYk4tTW7jHjsWarV3FLISCOObADZuB7ljU4kYfdwZ+WzenXY4LGlxGQSlAblGjwZe4= EIk CXAJUtzJhoFUuGaF/PlWjxqV3UFRcgTERZTijguVyREre8GNERNgvDxZvuXssEjvz9X5JfcIZ= DIJ pdzhLiEIj9noUbfx1SzB5KDPQj0O7elMHa1671/rwWcpGr/MfVPTOik4H7F8rcVJelceZTzC4= tvy a7M+jM4fyFWWt8Y4atTixUiP7U9o4uBZCQ0GzvsmFA4XLqn2pA5rVizMXnGbGOjufAP/efEJ4= ul3 qvjYe8ye8DXEDjKAxo/tuHYtk19XCi83QzFhWls5TT+XQeVTMEvVqo9Wek8yoxo67qvLKKqIc= G9g ivQd8MxYNAbNYgSPtkbhZ8TCwFwEEAEIAAYFAlo9UqAACgkQLzyHNoBfjaLzHAgAlWT6NXEGt= w/r 1miKNGcopzvzILQ9oB8rKI9U9EL6tOf/y2V5oYee/GyQDb3ZdoPxxYYcJf+RyiH1nMoqUIZiZ= Jaf 3bJXinDZ5+AdfE++UR2NBvqaNyC6u3r24jo1B/sagKbYtWgsYtRqHLD4IWi37MZrVyjBuF7u1= 4Q0 7+uhjq6mX2O/tHpCYw/Q82tbeTRPyUf1WQOAfD1kfBpW9PvAva5Iw9FWeXpCXRzwxnCZhYfGf= qtu Sw6CPBYLdbikqML6FZ7EDuTBb/8um1wK7Y9bgeIQC+CYjhYB5RXa1tDJRab2Js4luCvSR0w/C= gHw 26293tlve2Q6UTrmHxP5U22DlsLBfQQTAQgAJwUCWj1QMgIbAwUJCZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKC= wIE FgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6tJpD/4rrILH+meP07vrx8wW5eYuqCiPGYnh/CXxIF8eL= rfb e5d4QRgtq+w6UeQPMyzKRIRiCoBXB2oJLBZHyxBPxZlg33dTMrEGn8QWKx2iNuz9rZMXyOSWF= etu O01d/aUPd5BnbLbIyK5of8xCQlXM6KH8bc+9gQ7edR9mfLTdvBf2FR522hg8BRBM1imKc3vO8= v39 +qIHHRjuiwxBBCAOhHtHRsZXripS0uFA07dM46Oi/E8osjx6fQt/lH5z/PN+2adxYSrLSAXfr= 1oD 3RxYNhuWgyGFL64/VCQb1YGjf0Z5MBPnWm9jgUoOY5K9eNSS0L83WeJjlF5+Q/WOgB+rb49Pr= m2D Feo9+S9f2V53Llz1WIspXJg6f+n9lmHE94MfQj1GAHCzI0FeL19lvM+LhD8jJSCbhrC3+yoby= y/A UOs5Z3E+njjX1FF/VCVAs6iOa6i+XG+Y1hh3ir2y1kckJ5auT10MSU8GEZu9ayU4M3o3N9yxO= jao P0NuQ4MMLL/n/u4u94AeZaHPNBXn/hVfVRRmpRXtGKvJtFAEppGEYezB+bLKIm6XlpPkhnwYz= leL Z7AMEco2C6QM8QPB3g3JpS3sqRhA5rEP4lL16BmijmF+CHoPE/zwgKZbKpyVDqvIW5IDgvfIC= 2X4 pbZDRvGIUKaGSB4+ksZgUUnNyvfQr2p7jsLBcwQQAQgAHRYhBH4XCgRchM9GDit5oBDvedn9g= 1MS BQJbtySbAAoJEBDvedn9g1MSeKkQAJm44jt1kwHgQgeDBKdjdvl0AjE0xVEQxriZ6lP/l//34= YT0 auFfzsYIrChSpQXAEtobBAr4Ohw1Us+BZe+H5P8vm6LRuPwozC3SjwfX4Iec8+9ot6tIVg4sb= edD Sgb/CCFVjsmIGcQ1P73JLJTBJ6mxYCV/gn3QC6bwDOFo7kD9FDHCjRN8XfhHQ4Q9cYyt06uF3= 1qG /aumgWYC9geCGgAwiHgwxNYb9GoJ0iZjCROwbYvLTcQgsVUW2bTmsVR13UVKDsdl02sRV7qcV= YW6 R0a3Ra8KudX+nt25H5DRGd382KZ5W8pydsy/viTvD9z6v0ulChBYxAedIvGIClrhbxlLEPmIg= 4Im VOLGqsUgVm32J95WOjEkk4PEZ12xSDBtwhSJqmJNboWlfmw43KdIbY8zNhffIO3N6O7FsdGxm= qyH eLoTpqY+ySVUPpbuyW8ujnI/J//+6hdTZ9dQsEJQlWngKuWOQ5ma58MPSN88zllsqhZAFQjNx= qnk SzL6ZQ+v/jvuRRe16B80AeO55DsmbWsMv/YLLD1mSi7+Khy2EtMBhgojWwrGMvdLN6X3mnzNJ= Esc YyLxM9tSk+iySP2sLthK0BVgpAzBSdaf/ezIz60P+neHDzteNFf8Mn7lmgYk1amvZoJ29s5+n= 2Hw xyRL5dVMyMdyQmntubbctfqrZ0tIwsDcBBABCgAGBQJbxcflAAoJEGo7ETk8pK1gnCYMAJY4F= eIY jlIXGghFWzsB4fYwK1+iaFpU3fSto5qcrqVtVPjXpwqczqBWeXGyQxiB0kan4OVAXydIeaP8E= AuF CA7paP3s9STLJBO3KurkwyRkPW5zo0X7xVqaVToRsX2Ul98KVJoHYQD1KdezEtwlvpNwiiBr4= 2AY R751Vm6JBVAbQXuFpB3c8bUV0OkkRxNFtL8/2PieHar58n5dntGkbPlPkztahsFqktgacIgXH= X5v aT+7YeeZ1DWLOYjGO0wNhkOSeroCmxwJUikU7joBp823L7r5KfpqWTPpSCzVstQKZUGmmoE1q= Csw Y/Ud5wvp9SccpIILkRXj0rZRtfnE5MpL3hjmtNzfDd9qIsJtBJlSB2hZwAsVm1l+EWN9hG3tq= yA4 3niUMy2n6q690of3berSiQ+kvY/aC9Hx8I+bKzOV9/J2VUTqfaPZa4Uy2rVX5Q2p69n/PMj7m= Eer 0rCL3j9V16J9c+s0BSkXoKdtYdB0TWVhBgUybd9qtYcwHWvhP80uU3RlcGhlbiBGYXJyZWxsI= Dxz dGVwaGVuQHRvbGVyYW50bmV0d29ya3MuY29tPsLBfQQTAQgAJwUCWj1RWgIbAwUJCZQmAAULC= QgH AgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBasvrxexcr6jscEADEcB0WQEZn2AkrzDs1RhL0Lp6cZ= i0B igofkbcGfdhJyMSs19C0dhvncrAFClVI6/Udw3yFtDyYtOCf2W3M3A1K6/RfEizCLzTsdFIhn= i9g OJLlUpXViQtgrlstjk7hqVV3Ooz4BlCqS4cG7rfqf4LQQPpTAuFUEV9I28FBUB2irqC+v4gTy= sIg pMw0bA1yBU9sX5jE/tRkzqnuzZrkwiobDtRFJ9qp+7O2JtcY4EsVtLAsaodJKc5cF8R4OvB1n= 66v xxcgg9Eh4JNWZ47xsaCmAGo1Bcb2jIY35OtgAL7gCGLRSMKTtAaPy1/fEgIqhCljJ9x40Fkn/= 3r2 BX21WC9HFSPFTBz2RluLRzxdgxOrkYK8EiHUPoE5b1AEzZKw2AbeXfr57f5zYsN3IqfbQLUjM= YtU N1wK3Pjb+idD972wyXMWt8uOzlI7b9Ocu+nYm2whBfJv9Pmp3QYTmPz+LB9lH65VNVUSxSXVr= 5iW XO3qx1HtEiGEqkporMQCTh3T5Ud3PvMSRBFFKNs9WhJ/Lxz+SV30WLwG6dr5mQqlzAhb4Phc/= zek ZyXRdS/oDKrBLUucS36O//49JeyRi1QvOfxnfmIqRIAf/k3PoYJmTo5E82//r5Qj3YGlRu78b= a0H Arxs+ACD6AnEHHcbswpbtVEKYzlSu0Ar0Dc7vRWM/IyQdMLAXAQQAQgABgUCWj1SoAAKCRAvP= Ic2 gF+NosIsB/9f/29FNla3BJfGIEIDnhrqGD0i9bSa89SqBd++uG06TQgW5wsqtNcrwn81yZTq6= XE6 i9VtD4GKfqC0d4KZJr9bnbeD81cI64VOdL8zJWJs0vj5EIXCobKyX74Kb4uePUyZqwT2Q74I1= 16u /HwA9/FXsPo5isbh4ZqD4t0VHpWkmfq1FPT9a/JPyX46qKqB2Fce/7Qy+SQP1NfkuUlbhUH/J= G9a SSYvk3lznNiH41x9M+FDlL106itXOubrl3oi2fT3fsSedq7uzt+IV0DQEeNaoQAUuwEhdB8IW= OMq N2woDjGVKJftfsSWY9ilZrnDBNDrp0vRqcx33LUMkIw4d7iBwsFzBBABCAAdFiEEfhcKBFyEz= 0YO K3mgEO952f2DUxIFAlu3JJwACgkQEO952f2DUxJjuw/6ApHSsVTWD4a0H6FJ23A9Ftpy+aXZ4= vYl zkSrfsn2ECrEfK3lXQh/uzwjJUDYZeB1/BQsFZtcYNQOJSSHbQ49BFRLwb1J/wBZG4bbmrkLx= nNb KDKQvzxEpclkMW0Dj0J6o7kGrmzIGGrhB+JJN99AcineHRug8ZSFIERRCmigxdhAKU0BFD7P+= 5HN HltSL3DF1c2fFOf2JrgBKVoE+9RhMZjWNbYetFFLCkjXb5Rpay9zeMm1DxfSTGAnuOwUXW6qq= 4hn l5+VC/48ceDZElLLfu7RQUZv44pkSTOWZs+iQoJiHMFHk9wPqyB2Vok1yJ2a2j27WhXrJlPwn= Zbg JO5RyWDG3p/eVmpl5Uuc2dsfIpR17KnAuWpghK6V+cyFncDoGCl/YG2MvoolsW08FiZh3Ej4d= nJj j25TZkeFG74JJDXLvMYpJfSBGnmETv4Dhcm2xPqVMuFuL1qJlMbVLrMo2GXeo03OzNyvbs+u8= WLI aGm5hC7N1CXY8wZs4jo6OJ/expvnc07dEuws4zT3AiWv3nIouWReRStZy9QkavDocqbyPmilc= dPC Yk4BsOlzpwwO74hNG7iyl0KdAlwTxGQ7y0rJou6HYa1TmRhIEr3vKvlW+JfUUrqtjXgsuacTX= o4+ Ira2JUErL2cYzQMq1j4r1ZyhFnuz93s7Rsx/Nw0+0YvCwNwEEAEKAAYFAlvFx+UACgkQajsRO= Tyk rWCJqwv+NLVPE4sD4sDA2/6Ek7UsRIUkg+S39fhqWsLc4rtw/mDunv8Un61I3K04fZ2Ry4nF9= hZM 0a710UvXFbStvrzRJO3EAAcdJR9LTCd19e8UeruQbIee3YT91U4NkC9JMpecfq62/teOAU2e5= P3f WYaLs5ZX7zCLwWuBcW2l3SyoljQczM85HhJ3XHm+FnwQ6D9xRle+lvWTcuC9d1yAyUb8IOosp= cL2 lJTmy8e3r79R24hPlSB4LDe0wEN8AXbagrcAQZjwyaHyWxjJbTwZ0b43WGdfIqZ1ElOeoffbk= etP GRmWvx5xUvb2ALFBBdETzV270gs5XDJgJ1SIIKOyDADxwvroTe2jD8C/841eEql5QSow3s/U3= zRq k3mttto8Qw/DN71aeh6dmYSsvd2UjsHw/vofOPRBGxZLEkKTEvMnhmMW9hiKPkPia+QgevYE0= 20q pKSxLEdWA8nprHwxmGiDNesCfXSC6vm1qfyj5g8HzxSckq9ZaMhKMCo7vxflUEDuzsFNBFo9U= DIB EAD6DdHQfMav8OXfhjTteoarOrlJTSdci727xiezGPuBHmpvceBRZgRasdbaMc4HJee+R9+5x= /nL PCuy/DxDyIjwIUeJNgc+l7LjI9WfpHTD8U4xxjvR5Mi7+ToQQUOUNuzT0O0pyuxP1uY3RehHE= hOV fBZO59ipSeZL5iQC6T5MsK1SKfs51pLa5ToC1rc8tBJ4zZmxRAyZiYc/AH2uZ/6rYjTTkAn1D= VI9 DYo2D/zE4bGjXdJW5pKphFB2lX3dG4I7ODi+5e1H6A/QpCu6z8/ZkIQ+9T1xcX/YwiFeA7PbT= uW/ eITbMbI1eV3+fyym9aT7Rsflmp31Zxtr+sZwGGZf00ooMBFmqOS//NUQ/Vf3vDUew1h5QU1yD= aWT 3NApvi+XWPH9TPy6TMfZA2FThHf11sX/gDBa5JWQZbptPEcmoazpiKZt91CrFPOaoXDPck/Q6= 1df mr/oPikfByYnASIM3OwEuXqyQ9JDRfKrem5r+oA/wxWb5jELElAhOpnyqMMvOh7uz1foUssL8= MAv 2TGXmxpVJ8Nu4je6wf96Z22fQ0D38zud+CKH3bMP3ayXXJBcdPoENrzFbWP5FTg/4TTDJ3vOA= HZR 5iCunYghx8b7Ffa4UbkwlD+dh8GiIAtvT51Ac0cO0Wc0Zjc57zPUz1zloMbf+zb1Bsn7DuEQo= qj1 gwARAQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJaPVAyAhsMBQkJlCYAAAoJEFqy+vF7FyvqrC8P/1tF6TeR83xD6= Mas qXyrBjwcLmziaF0Mlkj8k/YUiZ/knb53n97xQnh9yxPv0TT8Wpfdn3BmvqGyh8+ouHX9jMOxi= RkM dNhIauVYY/8jmRfBSYWcFkfMzdYasvdLtmYJgx252HKTFdeOrszoOjWjEzwmh+tca3AFMu/nB= ++/ KAmi5UJV7zsZ7uYJ5jm97LV5SLjNJIXXM+lHqCDrjDaDhNczmq1LCRlU6/WDjvkuwaVhZG4lX= xMD rvKnXMkjseQ2oKjwrIdfQM86H1z5J31lfhqop+of0cimcIsBgSCPu+h96LHuAzeRBCbDKeqrf= ZtA ZAGsokRina9947fRWxXHh3O66ILmXKNRxxWbDkPvYnQWUat8SbSTDoPWrDIGDRIAypqYo3pcN= 2OE 0C1chqgDZQxkr+9kYZQpupOAN2TR+fM7JvbO9coKI8Uqog8CopoMeDQkd0YjcqlB1E0svODHT= zcS oRzogDBYDqNLP7qVkNXpcOAXSVioBgiSDf7o5RdS/qmUyXBIeq6I5z8xBcd+BQ/n/9Frkm6K7= IKP 3ngUP4wEoiPx5ZE5+fPIScGmVUcZIMhkvMvem9XXh1yyhqN14gfjmLwPGdWbrgG8QUe0s2WeW= Iys s6uTiyF+ZbJSo2XOKVc3YFMVUUfgyudqAV1wWdZinUk+H3pkqOKoHAy/8fST =3D40Nd -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------619778769B1D663B6DCC5A18-- --KByUSEWklwMP9WiPWKYIoc9V7kkdzPmca-- --nzj7bxMMX4R5tmLRNTyzVMwlqWLngEJ2D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAmEuqZwFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+qc 6Q//S5qxFQqLKdSKK+jVuRj/mRad1S8EcGnPa4nUMNqvKn6ns9CLGmP1DNu8Ksdk2PEFBB4Ytv89 UKXlGC8MgKwMSPEYJR7byWnIT6SF5JyJveP4gy0+1UnFgTHH0V2wDfdgdlqvzl4A3MmY2EwGvb2I KfKLcGJEf00D/j7Ed5vO/T1LTUhxvptwkACBBxeWL3yw2tC4S5cLKQmrRJzDbdQYQjIaT6lw+Q2v dGudovutlrmdPTZrzUzgRyNYAPXuO5jO1do4fL691bYfdD0X2fg8LGcsjEuNCCoeL+T1zCgc1FaR KdF21EjcimjIHY8Drx6wCKO3y3CyGZNS/JmFP6UxAOdMCIWBK27c8y00cEYNlD3AQuUq5aA9eLjW 6raf4R2SrwUF/xs5NVzaZx16AsZDgNWH8109PYyQEMFLNE9z8NBJCdAozD0oE77KW6DLgJ+hV5Rt BvlRr+/WAv4CKOU73E5FZakob0fBTYHbdsDD312TpvWCnuIU1/vA2INa3a0tX41/wBGKzuA9iK2w 5LWexR1r5OzznKTyuHY6KRq0Xhe+sbeYaXhS6PicoWpWO+6ykR6B4fpxZ/2fwKSec9gwLA82m0BU 4EejyWyoeUGGBVusb/1WvPFmOU9Rj/kyeZ2RbbnSYbkPXgg+K2JfKAtycMxk4FV0p+VYRtiVXfJE 4gQ= =+U67 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nzj7bxMMX4R5tmLRNTyzVMwlqWLngEJ2D-- From nobody Tue Aug 31 17:02:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: admin-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537913A1178; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwBWmCr2hyun; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5147D3A1174; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id ot2-20020a17090b3b4200b0019127f8ed87so2976874pjb.1; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Zr90EDUf6mSvrwceFx6rZ466iqQG0OpsuNMMIoBok2E=; b=SP8bmac/Yo0xdMndz4UmcT3tbEapBQjMYLWGnNyVCI6jfqpuyyroAWjmCM+gF+4IfV W0wvuodnElfGlaM8oNGy3OSuE307DYvarZ+s7rbushOWY/3UatPbZFZtpxKen8n+zumd ZcToNdssiWaENOHmyG2u94ASe+Gd9w0AESVBaay/ZZSXFzBDRaenkvxQ59L0CbstwCUh W9Ijo+Vg1HA241tOxJbcazBmnLtNIIRPPRXhufzFgQKsua1tIrmOezA/pubE5Iuo/tyF Tw8PPdryYNcD8Be2g5QpnRChVIh3KsuDkWtgLTUOWEflZyB4EQbU3xv4W3RPu9+Ouvkv nJAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Zr90EDUf6mSvrwceFx6rZ466iqQG0OpsuNMMIoBok2E=; b=a5FzjHx9biECkwWacKSPCVOIrq4r0BXxZDjuLTCqqpRga31L0q8YPi7+6esbuV90t0 jNZvAEFQ4cV7zsH6ECHoaGejlIItGrWa+Qkha6PX9bw0W3Lki4j7Y9M+Dca92a2qmlnu tQqO+ZMuXKu5GazSy/Fclj1qTLllV7Vf0jrd0UeezbPoBXOCOj2AxueuDuAWSKim2szB 5LlAnNHWF+Pt4KEfEiB9BTmfdMXZg5/jjzew3g4coVaUqt6Q2l6ECE43VKdcWvLHob7Y 4+Utwe0ZdBUg5/eHeVg/yPn2bZ0R0Lihu4m6Iuu7KeQPAdoNyIK6qKWhXZZaIxsLKgHm +23g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532lDpgxysPi2DSqnVNX8jad8/ncYHpPvqXXThcXhTBHo502DE9g OHyiSdGlls/phPtxUR8w0vc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy4z92tHO+u8PYP9TutzBRlV9iCJ1XIX9mVhgh1YJ6IJAVP5coW0u8ehlD87O+d5Vj6ZXTdyg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:560a:: with SMTP id r10mr8522817pjf.86.1630454522282; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ip184-187-180-127.sb.sd.cox.net. [184.187.180.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u17sm18499070pfh.184.2021.08.31.17.02.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Baker X-Google-Original-From: Fred Baker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:00 -0700 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Michael Richardson , admin-discuss@ietf.org, manycouches@ietf.org Message-Id: <0A4C8426-8FF6-4ADE-8E67-B777719611E1@gmail.com> References: To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18G68) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [admin-discuss] [Manycouches] Consultation on the financial aspects of COVID-Impacted meetings X-BeenThere: admin-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for IETF LLC administrative issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2021 00:02:08 -0000 Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways... > On Aug 30, 2021, at 6:09 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > I think we need to > stop pretending these are short term problems to be dealt with > on an emergency basis and start driving the decisions on the > basis of what helps the IETF make the Internet better. I would agree with your viewpoint.