From nobody Sun Oct 1 12:52:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C195134A83 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 12:52:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AY-IZFmn7Wp7 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 12:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79B14134A82 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 12:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id p5so2006885pgn.7 for ; Sun, 01 Oct 2017 12:52:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0rO8yz0JR/CLgA8eHJSD6SBbkFIuEIcYH0bIBMb9GpY=; b=b4a2nMBQC3PJYmtdwnPpADhxlozNVxTvYMNZLu2N91bIB1djDkX7m8oPk85yjvYB69 5e3gQGDiNlYP1yy7x1r2Ag3Ca6AWQleK7rMqqwEBNXkLTRtttCzTXHYA8VXhKZoGGQRj Cn7d4o84jV2nwHcKCH26OH3epouiMdnCz3W0XlJGNTm2Z6QW55tBEWoWvYHMAxltqoWo wUW7nZIBH+wwrqMAD8UNswJPYi2AATiT6nGSwMTeaFgCR1VG5XzjzTXC0kju54IIoTZm pnJJ7bWDZjtEWtcN8gYIWEV7bpWYvw4XH3hSSCw3QkdtPZ5Tvf5RWTGGayry2VvDZNRk wcjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0rO8yz0JR/CLgA8eHJSD6SBbkFIuEIcYH0bIBMb9GpY=; b=KpxEjIzBj1Eyc5iOG5CWi9x3Nlx4FYV+4oivs7Vtj68aJw1mjqobGDyGIb7Snf3Uts yf2Htb2AnEsBcp06nGpWYJNhnONgoUCGFG63DovOrKkV1xzdWt+gsNt7uY0XnKgpb2Q/ vi7WoyXTw+M/81ixx78DopaAiB85WujePUO4fPjERRdnwCQw2FUR+tr9PhBPmImVouqA Me5Ta8Fao5lScCOBX/GzZ9CgVR4jO65bTY+3dKtJzZuVECcequQVMUchLZIknIkrvuXx oi/oMweS8ekbAI5I6OimFxidepzqF5FwbCrUFOk7CR27Q0agvjkzWLO2HpJErFvtDgf/ C08g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjbHrWzBNujSeCp/7Nd/ssC3LK5zDZZHFTrqiFQRS4CKKAV4Ll2 Kp9dVvHQGB7qCbjwd4Dsc8vkzA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAQqDrj0u7ae/1JkDgT4kmySHrQZkSzZ079WX1nW8jOWczSWKioCY/7pWtjxMF2apt0/qI4Vg== X-Received: by 10.84.191.129 with SMTP id a1mr12015236pld.272.1506887568654; Sun, 01 Oct 2017 12:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y16sm13202243pfl.99.2017.10.01.12.52.46 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Oct 2017 12:52:47 -0700 (PDT) References: <150688738183.31979.4936756839024728410@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150688738183.31979.4936756839024728410@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <1f6cce49-ecca-c583-c9c4-fa0d0afedddd@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 08:52:45 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150688738183.31979.4936756839024728410@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2017 19:52:51 -0000 This is a small update to the GRASP API to add support for the M_INVALID message. The authors still need WG feedback on the draft as a whole. Regards Brian -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05.txt Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2017 12:49:41 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol Application Program Interface (GRASP API) Authors : Brian Carpenter Bing Liu Wendong Wang Xiangyang Gong Filename : draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2017-10-01 Abstract: This document specifies the application programming interface (API) of the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol (GRASP). The API is used for Autonomic Service Agents (ASA) calling the GRASP protocol module to exchange autonomic network messages with other ASAs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-anima-grasp-api/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-liu-anima-grasp-api-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Sun Oct 1 17:24:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AA7132D22; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 17:24:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a54Jf73qGpP6; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 17:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB115132C32; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 17:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E254E1D5; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 20:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4A481637; Sun, 1 Oct 2017 20:24:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brian E Carpenter cc: anima@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <150044138257.25233.12391471568614147773@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170918060429.GC31832@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <11713.1506195333@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <235c34a0-415e-5580-7308-58cf19131f3d@gmail.com> <23496.1506346820@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <20170925201814.GB9705@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <19014.1506705896@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Some questions to the WG: [I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-08.txt] X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 00:24:47 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brian E Carpenter wrote: > So there are several separate questions here. > 1. I understood Toerless to be arguing that the registrar may need to be > contacted again some considerable time after the bootstrap (i.e. join) > action, specifically for what he called EST-renew. > Is that agreed? Yes, but once on the ACP, a node has many different ways to find a renewal Registrar. Where that system is could be found via a number of other ways. > 2. If yes, would that need a new discovery action? > I assume the answer is yes, since we want to be reasonably > stateless and not assume that we can cache the registrar's address > and port indefinitely. Yes. > 3. If so, do we want to re-use the same objective (AN_join_registrar > for the sake of argument)? No, because: a) The join registrar might not support renewal or other complex EST methods. This might be to avoid providing unnecessary attack surfaces. b) The join registrar may be provisioned for the join process. It might be turned off (or scaled down) when there are no nodes expected to join. > 4. In any case, do we want to make this objective or objectives > highly extensible (which basically means using CBOR maps instead > of simple CBOR arrays)? This has the usual pros and cons: > highly extensible = more complex parsing. I don't want to do that. > Although we currently require that GRASP > runs over an ACP, there is nothing magic about that. I don't see that > BRSKI actually depends on the ACP either; both would surely run over > bare metal if we told them to (and the Security ADs weren't watching). Agreed. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnRh0sACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWWQQgAwLhMk3CkPaHypBk2B8cBm/1RTHOSpSQgMVvP7DqYtA6WJYKSjEILn7Ro AI9zP9Qypp3NgEZ2XTdt9RPo5ZmSew9vDLo5cKovCrDkhN1W+y7h3XeanvHswoPm Td4zhcGHrCuBqt0LxcHIIkdn4SGskVbqllQrKnbPyAKEEUTixwRrRJGoJwjJxUG4 6JExKhXwb2mNWRHYFI2MGG2EEOnUYU6S+Cu0vYuVdgUDoMaRRDdx7n1GMzP/fyD0 4X5npPmH4NNXwBZESBNj1/f5R9zfS95BKLpzB7gK0T5CgbRPVyRA2SkiCL/SpNKe Q+06Mi9Pg7nk1eNDgiks2WxeCwOwsw== =RtQt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 09:57:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FAF134F7B; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Russ Housley To: Cc: draft-ietf-anima-voucher.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 09:57:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 16:57:38 -0000 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review result: Not Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review Date: 2017-10-03 IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-112 IESG Telechat date: unknown Summary: Not Ready Major Concerns: Please do not reference RFC 2315. The is a full Internet Standard that should be used instead. Please reference RFC 5652, which goes back to PKCS#7 as follows: PKCS#7 --> RFC 2315 --> RFC 2630 --> RFC 3369 --> RFC 3852 --> RFC 5652 RFC 2315 only support signatures with the RSA algorithm. The signature value is the "result of encrypting the message digest and associated information with the signer's private key." RFC 5652 will support any known digital signature algorithm. Please reference it. In Section 6, the document says: The PKCS#7 structure SHOULD also contain all the certificates leading up to and including the signer's trust anchor certificate known to the recipient. Normally, the signer does not include the trust anchor certificate, so a bit of rationale is needed here. There are clearly situations where the trust anchor will not be known in advance, so that the the reason to include it. In Section 6, the document also says: The PKCS#7 structure MAY also contain revocation objects for any intermediate certificate authorities (CAs) between the voucher-issuer and the trust anchor known to the recipient. This is another place where RFC 5256 offers an improvement over PKCS#7. See Section 10.2.1 in RFC 5652, and see RFC 5940 for the information on OCSP responses. You might want to include CRLs or OCSP responses in a short-lived voucher so that the recipient does not need to fetch any revocation information to process the voucher. Section 6 needs to specify the content type that will be carried in SignedData. I believe that a new object identifier (OID) needs to be assigned. I'm not sure whether you want to assign an OID for JSON object or YANG structure. I can see where either one would work. Section 9 should be expanded to assign the OID for the content type: www.iana.org/assignments/smi-numbers/smi-numbers.xhtml#security-smime-1. Minor Concerns: I think it would be very helpful to include a diagram something like this in Section 6. Perhaps all of the CMS discussion belongs in a separate subsection. I did this to see if everything that is needed was specified, and I learned that the eContentType was not defined. ContentInfo { contentType id-signedData, -- (1.2.840.113549.1.7.2) content SignedData } SignedData { version CMSVersion, -- always set to 3 digestAlgorithms DigestAlgorithmIdentifiers, -- Only one encapContentInfo EncapsulatedContentInfo, certificates CertificateSet, -- Signer cert. path crls CertificateRevocationLists, -- Optional signerInfos SET OF SignerInfo -- Only one } SignerInfo { version CMSVersion, -- always set to 3 sid SignerIdentifier, digestAlgorithm DigestAlgorithmIdentifier, signedAttrs SignedAttributes, -- Required signatureAlgorithm SignatureAlgorithmIdentifier, signature SignatureValue, unsignedAttrs UnsignedAttributes -- Optional } EncapsulatedContentInfo { eContentType !!! NOT SPECIFIED YET !!! eContent OCTET STRING -- the ietf-voucher } It would be very helpful to the implementer to say how each CMS field is used. You can copy that vast bulk of the information that you need from RFC 4108. In particular: - See RFC 4180, Section 2.1.1 for ContentInfo. - See RFC 4180, Section 2.1.2 for SignedData. - See RFC 4180, Section 2.1.2.1 for SignerInfo. - See RFC 4180, Section 2.1.2.2 for EncapsulatedContentInfo. Nits: In section 2: s/autonomically/automatically/ s/Registrar See/Registrar: See/ s/entity it is contacted by/entity to make contact/ In Section 6.1: s/in Section 4)./in Section 4./ In Section 8.1: s/no understand of time/no understanding of clock time/ s/clock accuracy then vouchers/clock accuracy, then vouchers/ I think the table in Section 5 could be more readable. I suggest: +-------------------+-------------------+-------------+ | Assertion | Registrar ID | Validity | +--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ Voucher | | | Trust | CN-ID or | | | Type | Logged | Verified | Anchor | DNS-ID | RTC | Nonce | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ |Audit | X | | X | | | X | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ |Nonceless | X | | X | | X | | |Audit | | | | | | | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ |Owner Audit | X | X | X | | X | X | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ |Owner ID | | X | X | X | X | | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ |Bearer | X | | wildcard | optional | |out-of-scope | | | | | +-------------+--------+----------+--------+----------+-----+-------+ From nobody Tue Oct 3 12:09:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866BF1332C8 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zz9cEzYqSYiC for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D7B21331BA for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E04E1E5 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C324781949 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:09:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] appendix D removed! X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 19:09:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Max, as agreed in today's call, I went through the todo of edits, and did them: Proxy: * Action: insert section betweeen 2.4 and 2.5 that indicates the proxy is part of the architecture DONE: new text at https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master/dtbootstrap-anima-keyinfra.txt#L851 * if you are going to implement a proxy then you should support a circuit proxy so that it works with all registrars * add a high level section between s5 and s6 that details proxy discussion DONE: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master/dtbootstrap-anima-keyinfra.txt#L2084 * * Action: update figure 1 from "dead branch" DONE: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master/component-diagram.txt * Action: move 4.1.2 to new section. DONE: moved it. * Moving on in appendix D: * [30]https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/blob/master/dtboots trap-anima-keyinfra.txt#L3341 * * Maybe add section 2.0 about MASA to section 2, protocol overview. DONE: the MASA part was up at L851 above. * Move section D.1.4 to section 1.3, with reference to ACP. DONE: added new subsection to section 1. Ripped appendix D. Remaining TODO: update the JRC discovery with the M_FLOOD method. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnT4G8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXbJgf9FYRuz9bdUUz2IhtXfR9bycrnOe5wsnhZdvs/aqyEDlC+Ji3Ms5ayv5nx TQcw29D6JEwTXuIUKPlbqYm1LBp93PxYHJAlUSjuP2/Obo/Scu+tCCzI4PVrnw9D UPTLabnEFPwrGWOg6e7pUkGw25PCZ5u7WmbA85gFyNNBX2Wrx2iLqhCJe1awOoTU IO3uoGVb6FhmrvY3iswV4KVYxtMLSNqKGSiZQp6ObxjLdXiIUiuD6EkU7y71fn3/ L3IfUZ/YwcCT5JMvVsOt3+msI0AhalHuHU8+pYhnia2mBXLSeOOsyYt3JxNSwNMw SI0U9V9/yTAjz2xrDvfdEY0xcl1Mag== =COdG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 12:21:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1829D1331E7 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jsq-XFtWEDNL for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C54F133063 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 12:21:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2896; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507058489; x=1508268089; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=nOI/S9ypXGvJB247pWvcl2dyA2CtxA49apn3DfyEKKQ=; b=OKcpBjmBfcr8NZaDujhoMNDpBhD67LPxKp0nAXNl8cg+9s9DlZXC1Cmb kmgdypiahdPuAbdS29odLQ1uLAhiPb17Tb3GXoggNcuzNepGujd42/Au9 PRlu6utuxo/ZYsom0g/dzLTGy2DNZZvNo+7A0kz6Q+B+QncHGoP7mo/JC s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ARAgBc4tNZ/4YNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHg3KaAoF2ljqCBAoYDYFcgzoCGoQ0VwECAQEBAQECayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FGAEBAQECAQEBIRE6CwULAgEIEgYCAiYCAgIlCxUCDgIEDgWKKAgQpRGCJ4seA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWBDoIfggKDOyuCfYRsGIMTL4IyBZhYiFo?= =?us-ascii?q?Ch1yNBwyCCIlthwiKE4sUAhEZAYE4AVeBDngVSRIBhQccgWd2iHOBEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,475,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="12150699" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Oct 2017 19:21:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com (xch-rcd-012.cisco.com [173.37.102.22]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v93JLSdn004562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:21:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) by XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com (173.37.102.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:21:27 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:21:27 -0500 From: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" To: Michael Richardson CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] appendix D removed! Thread-Index: AQHTPHvHnl14dx9GIEm1CK/SSc0q/KLS1HiA Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:21:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <27448.1507057775@obiwan.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <27448.1507057775@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.66.223] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <15BE98B09FB5734AB8EB02AD9ADEEDA7@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] appendix D removed! X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 19:21:37 -0000 RmFudGFzdGljIQ0KDQpJdCBsb29rcyBsaWtlIHlvdSB3ZW50IGFoZWFkIGFuZCBkcm9wcGVkIHRo ZW0gYWxsIGludG8gTWFzdGVyLiBJ4oCZbGwgcmVhZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBkaWZmcyBhbmQgY29t bWVudCBpZiBJIGhhdmUgY29uY2VybnMgKGxhdGVyIHRoaXMgZXZlbmluZykuIA0KDQotIG1heA0K DQo+IE9uIE9jdCAzLCAyMDE3LCBhdCAxOjA5IFBNLCBNaWNoYWVsIFJpY2hhcmRzb24gPG1jcitp ZXRmQHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gTWF4LCBhcyBhZ3JlZWQgaW4gdG9k YXkncyBjYWxsLCBJIHdlbnQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgdG9kbyBvZiBlZGl0cywgYW5kIGRpZCB0aGVt Og0KPiANCj4gICBQcm94eToNCj4gICAgICAgICogQWN0aW9uOiBpbnNlcnQgc2VjdGlvbiBiZXR3 ZWVlbiAyLjQgYW5kIDIuNSB0aGF0IGluZGljYXRlcyB0aGUNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwcm94 eSBpcyBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUNCj4gDQo+IERPTkU6IG5ldyB0ZXh0IGF0DQo+ ICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2FuaW1hLXdnL2FuaW1hLWJvb3RzdHJhcC9ibG9iL21h c3Rlci9kdGJvb3RzdHJhcC1hbmltYS1rZXlpbmZyYS50eHQjTDg1MQ0KPiANCj4gICAgICogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIGdvaW5nIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCBhIHByb3h5IHRoZW4g eW91DQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgc2hvdWxkIHN1cHBvcnQgYSBjaXJjdWl0IHByb3h5IHNvIHRoYXQg aXQgd29ya3Mgd2l0aCBhbGwNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICByZWdpc3RyYXJzDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgKiAg ICAgIGFkZCBhIGhpZ2ggbGV2ZWwgc2VjdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHM1IGFuZCBzNiB0aGF0DQo+ICAg ICAgICAgICAgZGV0YWlscyBwcm94eSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uDQo+IA0KPiBET05FOg0KPiAgaHR0cHM6 Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2FuaW1hLXdnL2FuaW1hLWJvb3RzdHJhcC9ibG9iL21hc3Rlci9kdGJvb3Rz dHJhcC1hbmltYS1rZXlpbmZyYS50eHQjTDIwODQNCj4gDQo+ICAgICAqDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICog QWN0aW9uOiB1cGRhdGUgZmlndXJlIDEgZnJvbSAiZGVhZCBicmFuY2giDQo+IA0KPiBET05FOg0K PiBodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vYW5pbWEtd2cvYW5pbWEtYm9vdHN0cmFwL2Jsb2IvbWFzdGVy L2NvbXBvbmVudC1kaWFncmFtLnR4dA0KPiANCj4gICAgICogQWN0aW9uOiBtb3ZlIDQuMS4yIHRv IG5ldyBzZWN0aW9uLg0KPiANCj4gRE9ORToNCj4gbW92ZWQgaXQuDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgKiBNb3Zp bmcgb24gaW4gYXBwZW5kaXggRDoNCj4gICAgICAgICAgKiBbMzBdaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29t L2FuaW1hLXdnL2FuaW1hLWJvb3RzdHJhcC9ibG9iL21hc3Rlci9kdGJvb3RzDQo+ICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICB0cmFwLWFuaW1hLWtleWluZnJhLnR4dCNMMzM0MQ0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAqDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgKiBNYXliZSBhZGQgc2VjdGlvbiAy LjAgYWJvdXQgTUFTQSB0byBzZWN0aW9uIDIsDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICBwcm90b2NvbCBvdmVydmlldy4NCj4gDQo+IERPTkU6DQo+IHRoZSBNQVNBIHBhcnQgd2FzIHVw IGF0IEw4NTEgYWJvdmUuDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgKiBNb3ZlIHNlY3Rpb24gRC4xLjQgdG8gc2VjdGlv biAxLjMsIHdpdGggcmVmZXJlbmNlIHRvIEFDUC4NCj4gDQo+IERPTkU6DQo+IGFkZGVkIG5ldyBz dWJzZWN0aW9uIHRvIHNlY3Rpb24gMS4NCj4gDQo+IFJpcHBlZCBhcHBlbmRpeCBELg0KPiANCj4g UmVtYWluaW5nIFRPRE86DQo+ICAgICAgICAgIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgSlJDIGRpc2NvdmVyeSB3aXRo IHRoZSBNX0ZMT09EIG1ldGhvZC4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBNaWNoYWVsIFJpY2hhcmRzb24g PG1jcitJRVRGQHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYT4sIFNhbmRlbG1hbiBTb2Z0d2FyZSBXb3Jrcw0KPiAtPSBJ UHY2IElvVCBjb25zdWx0aW5nID0tDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IEFuaW1hIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBBbmlt YUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FuaW1h DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Oct 3 13:24:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61F61344D3 for ; 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Tue, 3 Oct 2017 16:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brian E Carpenter cc: anima@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert In-Reply-To: <6af7671d-81b8-a40b-e3d1-2bc9a9acc6b0@gmail.com> References: <150044138257.25233.12391471568614147773@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170918060429.GC31832@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <11713.1506195333@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <235c34a0-415e-5580-7308-58cf19131f3d@gmail.com> <23496.1506346820@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <6af7671d-81b8-a40b-e3d1-2bc9a9acc6b0@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP objectives used in multiple documents [was I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-08.txt] X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:24:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brian, I was thinking after my BRSKI update email about M_FLOOD vs M_DISCOVERY objectives. I wondered if they were in the same IANA registry. So I looked it up, and the answer is that they are, and that's as it should be. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnT8e8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWxywgAsEJVQfC5RjaAmd1rw0HpLmdC9JIo6bhaPJ7p6gzI2nJhqcBPkDe2oby9 Q581ktbZxzgHp+Nvph8ORkNLF+dfx9rpUIwD9lO30nvNBs2yi0nOIogAE6ue9lBR XfxUe0iEu3QWBsEHguHjAP4j9o6cK1yF+bxpX2k2voqhoI3OHWknoQOnsWnHrX6D Ip3pW4XpoUWkAgusJxQ49h+Edx3XDPQAeC042bnkT/W68fXAliLSWOt7lADuQuhn Oew49XRjU57Yoxp7RD8EAO48S5JD8DBdbNaWSKZrP62faaIOQBkDgFKPaqpKmL+E aKuS5XupgHdI9+m8LqvTJee2S5LVPw== =7ozz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 14:22:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B81A132D79 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:22:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ErIKqCTKIRvr for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59D161332DF for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E0BE1E5 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6975A81949 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:21:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5c00237e-98fa-9764-d816-919307bdd994@gmail.com> References: <961.1504038708@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2a1cf1e7-f668-cf76-d471-78585d7ad7ba@cisco.com> <8b165f89-3be1-c814-5a88-bf62f708972f@gmail.com> <27231.1505249495@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <6079.1505260663@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <5c00237e-98fa-9764-d816-919307bdd994@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] two EST question/suggestions X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 21:22:00 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain The text in the ACP document which I'm moving into the BRSKI document says: In the above (recommended) example the period could be 60 seconds and the indicated ttl of 180000 msec means that the objective would continuously be cached by ACP devices even when two out of three messages are dropped in transit (which is unlikely because GRASP hop-by-hop forwarding is realiable). In a PPP overlay, the M_FLOOD's can clearly be sent over TCP. And that part is reliable, but once inside the GRASP daemon, whether or not an M_FLOOD is relayed really depends upon whether or not there is available buffer space. You have to drop traffic going into the TCP links if there is no room available (vs blocking on write). So I am not sure the () message above is justified. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnT/3YACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWhrwf/bx8QtsUWmS2PSSn86r4271nf0utlatiMtSuNpUc2fgHggh844YNG1yhm NC2gSGRez17EgWoou0iV6qikphJWtBb20TIo43RAhOLkb5c1SS8GudZra80g/vDy gYKW91gHYa9YearIyazUNWCsOX04qHAxcuQ61Fh28vdBfWFx5x4wLam6oUzMcdKe 3UYclQfsd7lpriSDEpA7cI2rX/qPnz2M2vKuMHDpfYUIB4TQ3rvafh0XswLDNvok wPiGoSX3AuY2cUvsYbPfJfZe+6NIJcJv9Kd5VDYr3AqGrUHv3lz6uOjW97JQtceK 349ttnQVZ6FhVIYZ29teBlGqGG7VIQ== =XV5k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 3 17:07:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125C913232C for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J40_r9rbxCOD for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8714D13420B for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n14so3499476pfh.8 for ; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:06:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/Ks+J2if2ZFvDMW0YvbwYrdHo/XjJyTg7AdxhoXggAg=; b=Oi5UYYwVvuVaK7FQStclUWa3ib40U+AMhCWjhpvcWMW/4c9onprNIWjvQuA4wios1H 14lORj10nc3ow1ZIsCED3Isfg5p2+n/wWcfLKqlJuZEWhrK42b4CJqLWWxvUHRxgc12o CpTeAjL7LJMuZ5Had8aXAPMyEvCdBRgNvKuH1T/CAOHJoLudQe0IttuMIuwMTQddkZE2 yqao+J3lCKiFHJO3DXZKuCMszlB3a2b+Jjpnp/IsOKwwJ1JL1scmfjhdv0+PoOYCVn0E g8LAmAtMNmJ75MeEdwtmhxudAB02VZjhuZY3agtd2c2WSyXNY1BtzwsGX4kFVAbvVcGK NK1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/Ks+J2if2ZFvDMW0YvbwYrdHo/XjJyTg7AdxhoXggAg=; b=Zj0tyskwU/1UzHCMfYFUDsbTXJe5fWCASXP3k/9rpBZfbsoPBPR1z8BlGNTAGnhXqs wWd3MKFMh5asjetb7bs1/Exlfz/lQCPTQo1BgWBkexszv72Wx3/+5bAtiJfxPmSQ0ulo rDTI9i1WjsDq/6iMBVk4Tz1del1geyy1vRBafgRhTEavEqHT0VW+xgSj+WDwKbTuaDQu 6RbGGYHHbL0alWsyQn+EXsjCFeqW6ocQ+nmKjhH18ENkhbqE1iy6eQJX5Ti/p+mdw21G 4QEBWNoaq8vP/nviQn1lMX/Dx8A5uat3eA5DU4Z4ufgIzlTmo5G380SQzyt4/i5lTf10 OEfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUikyU/8ScszRCyvBQPzKjyw24SoDXjeR8LMHFDmeBVUU0e1qFZB 9Fmuxs5/HRSeCKL4txeUnIQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDQ2oRkMywxyQtnPjv8Qc1hbnAEIdGjVGU6lRhq7niVvHYcN+5AISvJoWc0Hpe9sqdUgZjBTA== X-Received: by 10.84.235.198 with SMTP id m6mr18117075plt.57.1507075616944; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w134sm23085136pfd.186.2017.10.03.17.06.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:06:56 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert References: <150044138257.25233.12391471568614147773@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170918060429.GC31832@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <11713.1506195333@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <235c34a0-415e-5580-7308-58cf19131f3d@gmail.com> <23496.1506346820@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <6af7671d-81b8-a40b-e3d1-2bc9a9acc6b0@gmail.com> <11895.1507062255@obiwan.sandelman.ca> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <1573e12d-a20b-dd7a-d62a-c8e8c1b830f5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:06:58 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <11895.1507062255@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP objectives used in multiple documents [was I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-08.txt] X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 00:07:00 -0000 On 04/10/2017 09:24, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Brian, I was thinking after my BRSKI update email about M_FLOOD vs > M_DISCOVERY objectives. I wondered if they were in the same IANA registry. > > So I looked it up, and the answer is that they are, and that's as it should be. Yes. I think we can expect some fluidity in the semantics of objectives. We say in GRASP that an objective can be both unicast-synchronized and flooded. We also say that an objective cannot be both synchronized and negotitiated. I'm not sure that restriction is really needed, but it's something that can be relaxed later if we want. Brian From nobody Tue Oct 3 17:13:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017BF13321F for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:13:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KExgFE7Lf2vE for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x233.google.com (mail-pg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75C291320B5 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v13so5603364pgq.6 for ; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:13:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tslwNFiWpej39c0Yl9oMkVwagqEMySKN0x1dMOIU6Kg=; b=Z/b6nA+8pbcq5JIAwmRhnhw1hMlUtbrO/o6NN37p5We/qt7bJGMBGBxeFAspnfHE32 jI4MWOv47SWFyv6cY9b9xwuxWaDZBEJW6r4GXUMQksT8BRX5MMXfNAymuiQDShLpd7O/ ukxBZkrymQ3ekFL0qpS7FZgLZ93Z6yFwhbgx00d8mNfhB+hdNZCqZjwiOHyAjcknk/YQ x8WKpIPOHJAxXN0sn7yj6+TmhP80BXbSLHdq6HumtRKcriwzig8V11Y++e4rZl/QOSGJ iG58ps2/wk9brD/QVYft+zWJMTzN8DG67Dkr/bsi7UX90BfE/SVSa39LkJ7kEB7Uf5tg 9y+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tslwNFiWpej39c0Yl9oMkVwagqEMySKN0x1dMOIU6Kg=; b=NeIF9WJv28cw3FaH8/ju6nOfsxTnUub+rx/nnctzBx/Ytsb3nYfVG9b4+xPudfmbB6 sTUv9kPvXssEct10wy42xiWwQOyWFJwlz8kdH9+wBh1DeqR7sCVReRwkZuaP8EXhIdT8 tmHvqT2dbNcp9akmWlvPlJPIosdJ61l6dv/nWRGy0AgVTd5ahrPncWHF3eaIS4A2Fjzx QceltzoYFrehbmfFmJmund8JzcqjbVcVDMjakRPiMHxVCJMYxjH8uZKH+NeqUeKLE2vV do+XUCo27cAeLN9WB0Egomk9kISjPVtazKCoEwogih0FbBPfCZCJEPDtLNVZA9rbhO5W wCAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU6b3to8ONlo4CIZZXcsvwhq9RVOkyFXY/2KFoOP+1cZBgz9xIf bZ1nKDrFplN5ubCROpH4LfnwnQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDN4fcufi/sad3VdVDeGSZvUbUBC3uRuIVmuPNMK9lTdfN2MYSTChJ9/ZFMEVvHmdVMGQ6nhA== X-Received: by 10.101.78.130 with SMTP id b2mr10201067pgs.160.1507076003750; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2sm7887790pfe.133.2017.10.03.17.13.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:13:22 -0700 (PDT) To: anima@ietf.org References: <961.1504038708@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2a1cf1e7-f668-cf76-d471-78585d7ad7ba@cisco.com> <8b165f89-3be1-c814-5a88-bf62f708972f@gmail.com> <27231.1505249495@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <6079.1505260663@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <5c00237e-98fa-9764-d816-919307bdd994@gmail.com> <24893.1507065718@obiwan.sandelman.ca> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:13:25 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <24893.1507065718@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] two EST question/suggestions X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 00:13:26 -0000 On 04/10/2017 10:21, Michael Richardson wrote: > > The text in the ACP document which I'm moving into the BRSKI document says: > > In the above (recommended) example the period could be 60 seconds and the > indicated ttl of 180000 msec means that the objective would continuously be > cached by ACP devices even when two out of three messages are dropped in transit > (which is unlikely because GRASP hop-by-hop forwarding is > realiable). > > In a PPP overlay, the M_FLOOD's can clearly be sent over TCP. > And that part is reliable, but once inside the GRASP daemon, whether or not > an M_FLOOD is relayed really depends upon whether or not there is available > buffer space. There's also a statement that the relay should throttle the rate of relaying (look for "MUST limit the total rate") both for M_DISCOVERY and M_FLOOD, as an anti-DOS precaution. > > You have to drop traffic going into the TCP links if there is no room > available (vs blocking on write). So I am not sure the () message above > is justified. Yes, I think we must always regard multicast as unreliable. As GRASP says, both M_DISCOVERY and M_FLOOD are repeatable operations. Brian From nobody Tue Oct 3 20:03:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA19813307D for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:03:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q09buCLHR25G for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x230.google.com (mail-pg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58F14132FB1 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id j70so5781405pgc.10 for ; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:03:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/RNyhiPpooXQX9+Iiz/zj7GDM3RvsBhLSUIe8Ttb8yo=; b=b26t0PgLA+23af4piag9KLyD4UWmphDJBY7h+hmB0u/twCdqXgouH/HQu50+w9HTvE hN+UqNbr5Fe4fYxG9k42idoapZl09eZ7HnWpGekt/b0yHOBqs5JfOCmKjgxherIauxIJ zMNhRjXkG+QK1O5yC1IYovzG5YNt4q+A1Cymd397Q74SjIwp2hzorh58gaqQ2Jfj8lqn XIsygmwaAw58sv6iRgUeVURGVgA/j2giOSGkq1p+j8PHnCuOObJvKINerZctoLPggDYh ljRYrGmhw9grMxEIGWFpZEuv+Q5GQpp9t951XmkaSxhtIsHlSP5g0Sh6XqcNMAHO20Px DSZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/RNyhiPpooXQX9+Iiz/zj7GDM3RvsBhLSUIe8Ttb8yo=; b=WgTPq+RtV+Qi37DT94gjipVN1l3I3XYaa+n599sd+Cs/5U/ckw5yjnZAi8BypGOJZO JFFyIMUluSB61EX8yXe3jn6OTuIjKdCtdvkS45L8DD8mqXpJ+RiKdebc6qtbId8n03jm jNhM/Wwv1wd4WLkv81SWLAYuQjbk1T45xLkABpG7A+zziokbXJLBuVmUZFiFBHl/ipw+ PKqDN97MxdtOHaBBXw10zZ/0Mu0EqQOqieuAp6WqyFsW2+tuNDw9begOhlseUkdCm0nN iLgNXMkR30z7uRWMpfbwVnSAfl57PNVSLdQIhYWByM9WTPWXM1tr7rmO15HTGSm9ezdg hTdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUSX9cyaTyR8GeKCXdQfFyPdYR1AgthpdSuPPsulvHASm33JLjn OGxv4+tk5vkiHyz8KpzkFWOj5g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBIYRl9bVrO1sRMpzXpEVCfVEFY9FOuIFGAWfke+5LlJQthJrGwA6681XfEf2xxrkEOfFGZTA== X-Received: by 10.99.116.89 with SMTP id e25mr8060772pgn.383.1507086183621; Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v15sm11815711pfa.50.2017.10.03.20.03.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:03:02 -0700 (PDT) To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 16:03:05 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] GRASP prototype updated X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 03:03:06 -0000 Hi, I've just pushed a new version of the GRASP prototype to https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy The file affected are grasp.py, grasptests.py and graspy.pdf The main change was adding detailed format checking for all incoming messages. While this isn't needed when this implementation talks to itself, it should be very useful when testing against other implementations. It's optional, controlled by a switch at startup. Red face department: when testing this feature, I discovered that my implemntation of M_FLOOD did not conform to the protocol spec in one minor respect. That has now been fixed. Regards Brian From nobody Wed Oct 4 10:39:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C359C1342FC; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 10:39:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Clarke To: Cc: draft-ietf-anima-voucher.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 10:39:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 17:39:33 -0000 Reviewer: Joe Clarke Review result: Has Issues I am reviewing draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 as the representative from the OPS directorate (OPS-DIR). This draft describes the format and signing for voucher artifacts used in various bootstrapping protocols. This document does not describe those protocols. Overall I struggled a bit to understand this document and how to interpret some items. In part, some of the difficulty comes from the fact that this is broken out from the bootstrapping protocols that use the voucher. But also, there seem to be some gaps in terms of what a device _does_ with the voucher. There was also an issue with terminology that made the first read-through a bit confusing (which I describe below). The biggest thing I want to call out is "processing" is expected on the device given a specific voucher? The YANG module makes reference to what should happen relative to this processing based on the value of certain fields, but I am uncertain as to exactly what a device will do once it receives the voucher. One case in particular that caused some confusion is around the assertion: "The assertion is a statement from the MASA regarding how the owner was verified. This statement enables pledges to support more detailed policy checks. Pledges MUST ensure that the assertion provided is acceptable before processing the voucher." How does the pledge (i.e., device) ensure the assertion is acceptable? If this is bootstrap protocol-specific, perhaps there can be some references here to help. In terms of revocation tests, it might be worth mentioning (from an operator perspective) that doing this may require broader internet connectivity than a bootstrapping device may typically have. Opening up that connectivity may be problematic from a security standpoint. There might, therefore, be some requirements or recommendations put on the bootstrapping services to make sure a device is both protected and can verify the validity of a cert. >From a terminology standpoint, the use of the word "pledge" seems odd. The use of this word may not translate as clearly outside of the US. Why not something like candidate? Below are my section-by-section reviews: Section 1: There is a reference to a "second category" of vouchers, but this is not referenced anywhere else. I'm not sure what the "categories" of vouchers are. More explanation (or rephrasing) is required here. You misspelled "programmatic" as "programatic". === Section 2: You use mixed case of terminology here and throughout the document (domain vs. Domain seems to be the most egregious). I recommend making sure that key terms are used with consistent case throughout. MASA server is not well-defined. You expand the acronym, but you do not really explain what a MASA server _is_. Maybe this isn't the right document for that, but then there should be a reference to where one can really understand this element. === Section 5: Typo: "This does not direct prevent the MiTM but provides a response" Maybe you mean, "This does not directly prevent" or "This does not prevent" Section 6: You have a duplicate word, "use": A possible other use use could be as a "signed voucher request" format originating from pledge or registrar toward the MASA. === Section 6.1: Is this needed? Can you simply refer to draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams? === Section 6.3: In the description for created-on, you state that this node is not mandatory. However, it is defined as "mandatory true". From nobody Wed Oct 4 14:16:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C2B1344B7; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 14:16:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.534 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yfj4UGSZDAg7; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976F91330B1; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@grace.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.217]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id v94LG08C022215; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 17:16:01 -0400 To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: anima-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-voucher@ietf.org, terry.manderson@icann.org, anima@ietf.org, jiangsheng@huawei.com References: <150660504597.13691.5244155942892496049.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal Message-ID: <3d0b1320-dfd0-9a46-0d43-c3169e75e7c5@concordia.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 17:16:01 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150660504597.13691.5244155942892496049.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2017-10-04 17:16:02 EDT Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 21:16:31 -0000 I have the following comments about draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05.txt. Section 6, para 2. I cannot parse this sentence. It has no verb. Para 3. Please give citations for DER and X.690. Section 6.2, para 1. The second sentence is not a sentence. It has no main clause. Section 8.1, para 3, last line. "should not" -> "SHOULD NOT" I have also sent several grammar/formatting corrections to the ANIMA list, as these are not substantive. Bill Atwood On 28/09/2017 9:24 AM, The IESG wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Autonomic Networking Integrated > Model and Approach WG (anima) to consider the following document: - 'Voucher > Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols' > as Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final > comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-10-12. Exceptionally, comments may be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of > the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > This document defines a strategy to securely assign a pledge to an > owner, using an artifact signed, directly or indirectly, by the > pledge's manufacturer. This artifact is known as a "voucher". > > The voucher artifact is a YANG-defined JSON document that has (by > default) been signed using a PKCS#7 structure. The voucher artifact > is normally generated by the pledge's manufacturer or delegate (i.e. > the Manufacturer Authorized Signing Authority). > > This document only defines the voucher artifact, leaving it to other > documents to describe specialized protocols for accessing it. > > > > > The file can be obtained via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-voucher/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-voucher/ballot/ > > > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From nobody Thu Oct 5 00:40:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51E3134550; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 00:40:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dan Romascanu To: Cc: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, dromasca@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150718923161.6765.1063814196177223361@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 00:40:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 07:40:32 -0000 Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-?? Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review Date: 2017-10-04 IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-12 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: This document describes an ANIMA solution for IPv6 prefix management at the edge of large-scale ISP networks sketches an IPv4 solution extension to support IPv4 prefixes. It is well written, targeting the operators of ISP networks, describes the solution in a manner very clear for people familiar with the ANI framework, with useful deployment examples. There are a few minor issues that I recommend to clarify. Major issues: Minor issues: 1. In Section 3: ' Roles could be locally defined or could be generic (edge router, interior router, etc.).' I am a little confused by the locally defined roles concept. Do the brackets refer only to the generic roles? If so, what would be the examples of locally defined roles? 2. Section 3.2.1 - what does 'Identity of this device' mean in this context? A clarification may be needed. 3. Section 4. The presence of a PrefixManager ASA seems to be a fundamental requirement for the solution described in the document. Consider using a capitalized MUST to emphasize this. 4. Section 4.1: ' It should decide the length of the requested prefix and request it by the mechanism described in Section 6.' Is not the length of the requested prefix a function of the device role? What is left to the device to decide? 5. Section 7. Related to my previous lack of clarity about device identity being decided by the device. Is this not a potential threat? It does not seem to be taken into consideration in the referred security documents. 6. [I-D.ietf-cbor-cddl] and [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] seem to be required reading in case the respective options are being used. Consider moving these as Normative References. Nits/editorial comments: 1. Section 1: ' A generic autonomic signaling protocol (GRASP) is specified by [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp] and would be used by the proposed autonomic prefix management solution. ' I am confused by the use of 'would'. Does it mean that GRASP is just an example? Are there other to be taken into consideration? If using this document to validate the design of GRASP is the principal scope, why the conditional mode? 2. need to expand acronyms at first occurrence - e.g. DHCPv6-PD, CBOR, etc. 3. I am not sure what 'Abstract' means in the name of the Appendix section 'Abstract Deployment Overview' From nobody Thu Oct 5 13:15:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0AC134315; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 13:15:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Russ Housley To: Cc: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150723455673.6154.11287987531699991961@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:15:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 20:15:57 -0000 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review result: Has Issues I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area Directors. Document authors, document editors, and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other IETF Last Call comments. Document: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review Date: 2017-10-05 IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-12 IESG Telechat date: Unknown Summary: Has Issues I did not review the state machines in detail. I assume that others that are far more familiar with PIM have done s detailed review of them. No Major Concerns Minor Concerns This document uses "DHCPv6-PD" and "DHCPv6 PD". At first, I was going to recommend picking one spelling. However, RFC 3633 does not define either of these. So, some explanation is needed in addition to being consistent. In Section 3, the document says that roles can be locally defined. If I properly understood the rest of the document, this is just a indirect way to state the prefix size. If I got that right, it would help to explain this to the reader as soon as possible. In Section 3.2.1, please give some examples of device identities. Are we talking about a serial number or something else? In Section 4.1, the document says: It should decide the length of the requested prefix and request it by the mechanism described in Section 6. However, Section 6 talks about: ... Thus it would be possible to apply an intended policy for every device in a simple way, without traditional configuration files. I do not see how the mechanisms in Section 6 increases the allocation for a single router. It seems to increase the allocation to all routers with a particular role. Nits Throughout the document, I find that "administrator(s)" grabs my attention. I suggest that "administrators" would be better for the reader. In Section 1, please spell out the first use of "ASA". In Section 3.1: s/with minimum efforts/with minimum effort/ From nobody Thu Oct 5 16:01:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5C613432F; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:01:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Paul Hoffman To: Cc: draft-ietf-anima-voucher.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150724449566.3167.10676079841422142298@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 16:01:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 23:01:36 -0000 Reviewer: Paul Hoffman Review result: Ready The protocol described here is a YANG module signed with PKCS#7 1.5. The use of the signed information described sounds fine, and the reference to PKCS#7 1.5 (RFC 2315) and the subparts was complete and clear. From nobody Thu Oct 5 18:19:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E706132076; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXD3wm53Gl0w; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x231.google.com (mail-pf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 652BD13219C; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 17so456246pfn.12; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:19:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=iQ2XfZWMK/OFJ4+xeowVG48MdU0x5obWVKKqJczyH58=; b=uSVOULhYL+t2C724450KSzBtwgv9hOMvT9uuTaqdfKQQ82xAafAKZIgSyfo5tgV+Yo M9Uz3KmUtHOvAXpkQJwWpQ+M2ISX5HCV60e4VTyjvqDS2v4GrkZJUiSp21abgJGRUwJY 1/MOQkyNqF0dMdWRYsQUGDEz09t3rRO7qlLUjCVqZYyS6TxfJePX/nXfa1ycx13RpVmu og6rwb1rJRxofryHvEo3/+bSEZ3v/8BaLd2DsCNAmQDajqb6/hE8U2jQjLlvW9X8GRmt pvsQYhJbJV/Xu41vsh9mfzYTqRsgOyY/Ic3OtQf89p1d3BEOlLLXeCOoDI+3rgLsCF0W 84MA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iQ2XfZWMK/OFJ4+xeowVG48MdU0x5obWVKKqJczyH58=; b=d5tq9aJezGzcTIxtO+ooFbE0TpSH6rqDZ5A5eliMLNXpTjdrknSqZMW2bOa7VAB5gZ f7N36PyVRyjSdHZPyshSOhkFPYFwrNyrr6PWeZrPCJhoDkwqtKJQ3RE0uFKZyydXerJ3 9mXN12biH/jkffTsvekFRvfmK4RU0txEORI5FcoKJLLY1djpiKyNEunfdcswcJfZZia3 FoKFCiSirvhpQQsv28H1YHhsVisdC04zKdwbcqr4LO7fNtzd4k5P0YCgxE5w4IrpikpJ dJiPlInqgphcr6G6KeIPVv0fTinSJh1Af7++c72NkzBlClMK054DC5bZtUMxpoURa1BH bERw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXsQ3rhX4UnY+2QKmAnQ9+pMzg7QhBSM8feaUFcy98CECee3jtB aIoiVhw5BEOUVBgFkOS7e4js8A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAGF1ZCAxzcvPhupuziJN2TG7xPhwD3MBP8seRJYmZNvgt3bhs4kgaCPKaKAc7Nd13gMU6ICQ== X-Received: by 10.99.179.5 with SMTP id i5mr481791pgf.442.1507252783587; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r11sm337936pfk.108.2017.10.05.18.19.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) To: Dan Romascanu , gen-art@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <150718923161.6765.1063814196177223361@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:19:49 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150718923161.6765.1063814196177223361@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 01:19:46 -0000 Thanks Dan. Good comments, and I think we can deal with them all quite easily when the Last Call expires. Regards Brian On 05/10/2017 20:40, Dan Romascanu wrote: > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > Review result: Ready with Issues > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > > . > > Document: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-?? > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > Review Date: 2017-10-04 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-12 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat > > Summary: > > This document describes an ANIMA solution for IPv6 prefix management at the > edge of large-scale ISP networks sketches an IPv4 solution extension to support > IPv4 prefixes. It is well written, targeting the operators of ISP networks, > describes the solution in a manner very clear for people familiar with the ANI > framework, with useful deployment examples. There are a few minor issues that I > recommend to clarify. > > Major issues: > > Minor issues: > > 1. In Section 3: > > ' Roles could be > locally defined or could be generic (edge router, interior router, > etc.).' > > I am a little confused by the locally defined roles concept. Do the brackets > refer only to the generic roles? If so, what would be the examples of locally > defined roles? > > 2. Section 3.2.1 - what does 'Identity of this device' mean in this context? A > clarification may be needed. > > 3. Section 4. The presence of a PrefixManager ASA seems to be a fundamental > requirement for the solution described in the document. Consider using a > capitalized MUST to emphasize this. > > 4. Section 4.1: > > ' It > should decide the length of the requested prefix and request it by > the mechanism described in Section 6.' > > Is not the length of the requested prefix a function of the device role? What > is left to the device to decide? > > 5. Section 7. Related to my previous lack of clarity about device identity > being decided by the device. Is this not a potential threat? It does not seem > to be taken into consideration in the referred security documents. > > 6. [I-D.ietf-cbor-cddl] and [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] seem to be required > reading in case the respective options are being used. Consider moving these as > Normative References. > > Nits/editorial comments: > > 1. Section 1: > > ' A generic autonomic signaling protocol > (GRASP) is specified by [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp] and would be used by > the proposed autonomic prefix management solution. ' > > I am confused by the use of 'would'. Does it mean that GRASP is just an > example? Are there other to be taken into consideration? If using this document > to validate the design of GRASP is the principal scope, why the conditional > mode? > > 2. need to expand acronyms at first occurrence - e.g. DHCPv6-PD, CBOR, etc. > > 3. I am not sure what 'Abstract' means in the name of the Appendix section > 'Abstract Deployment Overview' > > > From nobody Thu Oct 5 18:21:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73DB133226; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QoRSRbH2cTKT; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22e.google.com (mail-pg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67B5613320B; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id p5so9156657pgn.7; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TiDHaVB+6LbQtkYH0DzJqGNjYt0vvgYTan7/tPyjlR0=; b=GLbt2jc14YJu1BC7Mt1r5ZZzCnhoW7E/zj4RNF1fZJrMjbbZVmg4/+yHgbPx7BAC1a XDnbj08XNe1dCS0HD9iSwYJvkkFIz6VtKOjOOgKMjSctXndbbYJngKpUwKRusLmndp6p 3l82J0dvMf/EhoBBq8cZZo1iAuBtLf4GkLL8SFqXNlVBdeH/xeX+8K5PFEefomL/+clf X2aTo2NGtoWRZutNzkujdj+Xxx646i62XfcOjn/MK5lSOSChYuQN5cUQinyKBDiQkjVs 43I4xRJEHzRIOEwFQ4Ua+PRjm2e4OWabipzL7tDdsnmGOrr3b+L5fL16aY2stq3vlF7Q NyUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TiDHaVB+6LbQtkYH0DzJqGNjYt0vvgYTan7/tPyjlR0=; b=pQagclvBZMci0hLo1VBH7dSWzs+Nnm6u8n1XeATSK+NPgiOQG8bEpx1tOIGk9dzfyM K+b/aEDrH2XKQty9Q8EqZY8v7CUfDvYLrijiwZ8yYJaiAPAN6z5Fq3zGxeBYiggzW1ko Mu9BAbG/7DJMTszFTdIXsE1+lReKUFiTtTpioKdPKqVDn5lotGOW4Rpn2OhwusWqlch8 fiGpV+gTBsKpEYtlrakpNH841AUHvp3eEpBudMMHEdHcZVkweYxJpfSHskxkcEERkla6 TSBaV4Q8WjbokeDthv027Ik6hRF3YoxZuQCtYs+WyTu1TGhfPPjfwovX6Ey1XnGELMX1 bElA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWGGm8sZM9BOrs9L6CZCMkviihJeNJczidCn+xuiehn52C423Df x3ATZdoPP+/Ou5AFBxei3dcF8Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAzwDAMmQcJT2rIShJQdibaEseMXO34HBxVwM7nX2wNo/Czy3sr+wxjfcrMmKrcPLtKmj27Rg== X-Received: by 10.84.218.131 with SMTP id r3mr437255pli.271.1507252872640; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k67sm286655pga.46.2017.10.05.18.21.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Oct 2017 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Russ Housley , secdir@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <150723455673.6154.11287987531699991961@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <7ced8d26-61c8-be72-ff49-68051cb07607@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:21:18 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150723455673.6154.11287987531699991961@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 01:21:15 -0000 Thnaks Russ, all valid comments. We'll take care of them at the end of Last Call. Regards Brian On 06/10/2017 09:15, Russ Housley wrote: > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review result: Has Issues > > I reviewed this document as part of the Security Directorate's ongoing > effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These > comments were written primarily for the benefit of the Security Area > Directors. Document authors, document editors, and WG chairs should > treat these comments just like any other IETF Last Call comments. > > Document: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review Date: 2017-10-05 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-12 > IESG Telechat date: Unknown > > Summary: Has Issues > > I did not review the state machines in detail. I assume that others > that are far more familiar with PIM have done s detailed review of them. > > > No Major Concerns > > > Minor Concerns > > This document uses "DHCPv6-PD" and "DHCPv6 PD". At first, I was going > to recommend picking one spelling. However, RFC 3633 does not define > either of these. So, some explanation is needed in addition to being > consistent. > > In Section 3, the document says that roles can be locally defined. If > I properly understood the rest of the document, this is just a indirect > way to state the prefix size. If I got that right, it would help to > explain this to the reader as soon as possible. > > In Section 3.2.1, please give some examples of device identities. Are > we talking about a serial number or something else? > > In Section 4.1, the document says: > > It should decide the length of the requested prefix and request it by > the mechanism described in Section 6. > > However, Section 6 talks about: > > ... Thus it would be possible to apply an > intended policy for every device in a simple way, without traditional > configuration files. > > I do not see how the mechanisms in Section 6 increases the allocation > for a single router. It seems to increase the allocation to all routers > with a particular role. > > > Nits > > Throughout the document, I find that "administrator(s)" grabs my > attention. I suggest that "administrators" would be better for the > reader. > > In Section 1, please spell out the first use of "ASA". > > In Section 3.1: s/with minimum efforts/with minimum effort/ > > > From nobody Fri Oct 6 06:12:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECF91349AC; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 06:12:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=lightingaad.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wplqasNL0Iov; 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Ip=[13.81.48.91]; Helo=[LIGHT-EDGE-2.lighting.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4P121MB0003 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 13:12:01 -0000 --_000_VI1P121MB0015EB4E46E4332E94648CB99B710VI1P121MB0015EURP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Below are my comments on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05. Overall, the goal of= these comments is to make BRSKI including voucher format as defined in the= draft optimally suited to constrained, embedded devices that operate on lo= w-bandwidth IPv6 networks. See also draft-vanderstok-ace-coap-est for some = more context on this work. 1. The choice for JSON only (MUST) in the voucher format seems rather restr= ictive. Current work (CoRE WG, ACE WG, other SDOs) focuses on embedded devi= ces that will support CBOR but not JSON. Shouldn't CBOR encoding be added a= lready in the present document, as it can be a quite straightforward mappin= g or straightforward derivation from the YANG format spec? A CBOR encoding = will be a bit more compact as e.g. the three "binary" fields listed in Sect= ion 6.1 of the draft will be in CBOR directly binary encoded, no base64 nee= ded. So if the voucher draft would also specify the CBOR equivalent of the JSON = structure it would be much better usable for the constrained-devices contex= t; and leave still open more ways to perform the signing (PKCS#7 or others = e.g. COSE, JWS, ...). 2. A voucher format that could even be preferable over "PKCS#7 signed CBOR = data" is usage of COSE (RFC 8152) to sign the voucher data. When COSE sign= ing is used the typical format for the signed data would be CBOR and that l= inks back to point 1. The current draft does leave open the option of other= signing methods (non-PKCS#7); however ... doesn't the current emphasis on = PKCS#7 kind of close the door to other formats since people will expect eve= ryone to just use what's in this document? Is it intended that for a new vo= ucher signing format a whole new RFC has to be created, extending the curre= nt anima-voucher draft? Including COSE signing option in the current draft= would be best, but it seems to be on purpose omitted from the current draf= t (*). Best regards Esko (*) possibly the outcome of the email thread "Re: [Anima] [Anima-bootstrap]= Voucher signing method" earlier this year. ________________________________ The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally = protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addr= essee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified th= at any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this email is str= ictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient= , please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the = original email. --_000_VI1P121MB0015EB4E46E4332E94648CB99B710VI1P121MB0015EURP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Below are my comments on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05= .  Overall, the goal of these comments is to make BRSKI including vouc= her format as defined in the draft optimally suited to constrained, embedde= d devices that operate on low-bandwidth IPv6 networks. See also draft-vanderstok-ace-coap-est for some more contex= t on this work.

 

1. The choice for JSON only (MUST) in the voucher fo= rmat seems rather restrictive. Current work (CoRE WG, ACE WG, other SDOs) f= ocuses on embedded devices that will support CBOR but not JSON. ShouldnR= 17;t CBOR encoding be added already in the present document, as it can be a quite straightforward mapping or straight= forward derivation from the YANG format spec? A CBOR encoding will be a bit= more compact as e.g. the three “binary” fields listed in Secti= on 6.1 of the draft will be in CBOR directly binary encoded, no base64 needed.

So if the voucher draft would also specify the CBOR = equivalent of the JSON structure it would be much better usable for the con= strained-devices context; and leave still open more ways to perform the sig= ning (PKCS#7 or others e.g. COSE, JWS, …).

 

2. A voucher format that could even be preferable ov= er “PKCS#7 signed CBOR data” is usage of COSE (RFC 8152) to sig= n the voucher data.  When COSE signing is used the typical format for = the signed data would be CBOR and that links back to point 1. The current draft does leave open the option of other signing met= hods (non-PKCS#7); however … doesn’t the current emphasis on PK= CS#7 kind of close the door to other formats since people will expect every= one to just use what’s in this document? Is it intended that for a new voucher signing format a whole new RFC has to b= e created, extending the current anima-voucher draft?  Including COSE = signing option in the current draft would be best, but it seems to be on pu= rpose omitted from the current draft (*).

 

Best regards

Esko

 

(*) possibly the outcome of the email thread “= Re: [Anima] [Anima-bootstrap] Voucher signing method” earlier this ye= ar.

 


The information contained in= this email may be confidential and/or legally protected under applicable l= aw. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the= intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this email is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipi= ent, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of t= he original email.
 --_000_VI1P121MB0015EB4E46E4332E94648CB99B710VI1P121MB0015EURP_-- From nobody Sat Oct 7 13:43:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EE9134B75 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LOvTd_wWXevj for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8830F132320 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 13:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A027C200A3 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533A88198F for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:43:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] more ambiguities in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 20:43:31 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain As we have removed appendix D, and are about to post the -08 version, we are now in the process of making sure that we didn't miss anything important! Max, Section 4.2, we missed a reference to Appendix D. It was literally in the text, not using an XREF, so xml2rfc did not complain: registrar-cert' are correct. The registrar performs authorization as detailed in [[EDNOTE: UNRESOLVED. See Appendix D "Pledge Authorization"]]. If these validations fail the Registrar SHOULD I put the old text into the wiki, at: https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/wiki and I'm fixing this section. In particular, I also am unable to see anything in section 4.2 that tells me whether to Pledge->Registrar should have a clientcert for the TLS connection! I'm pretty sure that we are supposed to do that, and it seems like it's MUST be mandatory if the voucher request is not signed. In addition, the attacks that we were calling MITM attacks, but for which a MITM is impossible because the IDevID is verified by the JRC mean that the connection MUST be anchored with a client certificate, so I'll see what text I can add to make that clear. In the case where the voucher request is signed, I think that the JRC should verify the signature on the voucher request USING the key present in TLS, and should essentially ignore any (and all) keys present in the PKCS7 blob. It seems that finding the right certificate and verifying that it's memcpy() equal to that in the TLS client certificate is just extra work with no value. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnZPG8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVSJggAojdoKDwGSV9N18HC4pNycZOifiGONEIKfq68vSSsYTfCsyNBkeQve3fl 97YOzMkvmD1FY1bmz7iJjxoQCPyL6Y/gQpx47H8RkzqVtBQ5TWN9cZD4T5UM/Tb1 y4UV3l+XavH5iurQKE2W1L71qy6cTj306iBW6dRQAIUr8MniqsfAP/iMT8kbgTC0 ajdd6XVKAH6q5NjWxdlSW/z3x35UDuzVyrSBE+BJK0E0dZBd2lIdyyMxt4bYECXh gNt/NPIbCm+5MgFfnM4H6an4cMxoo6RukVFyUMiZSbpyDc+zQt5ldRrb8CcYHUb1 LTtucfz64X8cxZZvCjw7yubB+75G2w== =pASO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 10 01:26:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7771134A85 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.076 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.076 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uf5jGT88qbRg for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BD8F134A8C for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id u138so2854667wmu.4 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YW7KTL5aYsJZg2RjadC0fyFHt8k/CihQcxIgp6pZw9s=; b=i2NE5hKEzJcwuzKKqv0qm1l1Uryp4IRQFmlV5eTz73jev3FgKXrXDYJcjZM1Xts4C/ bR1+fUoVtzce272WRFZn26QUQMkNFXB0HHD7BzNu4X+zhY3ObhluJMKo2TnKdE23httO +T1pnI4G+LcK3qcbsWLNPBzWqsrPtQxBJ+8X3Q0IYpropWhWxsW7NWsHKAEqiZ97dN0b M95+2nerRfLxWSDyGLVnHzcZhqJksXsBzM0ho7K2OqimrEHkA07wQ/FDw+3osVIUn1YP Oez8B7NoTO9JKOW6mzTtzRHq7jaubXY8IDUwn0PHtWCaIolCtzrGUidR3jlElVJTCiR6 KwPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YW7KTL5aYsJZg2RjadC0fyFHt8k/CihQcxIgp6pZw9s=; b=CqjShJAB9cEg9L7MmhWY4m4No7B3EmhDigB7KFDnqnGgQzXyXCG2IKCodJhuGynBbI c45B+/F1gYv4TNEXPGMZXpIG1z+NKol50Ntwv+sFgkPwCkQXBOL3Nl57Z6wG5267n+tJ XKPVroUcQr2ozflgyw8o+IcSCMcQ+WnsBmnYh39VE0vrMlVFzDqhT2p95vxFOzr1IG+n Zwii61eMghF94Q+FoI+lEMcLUzeiZsbnmAf42rM56nAxCiHSsqxLZBKKUVO62AnkmrES D6Q8ETDiEzWuZ9l3/znTogzsAEqp1jasECde0bcSLk4q4H8Mjkgz/oWY11u/6YHWrHsK 63cw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVhfvVb52dpkJ8b3p4LXwF0OAMedv9u+R0Gu2hrAP8993SkTCye /EZlRZC4s2NEzl3aBew9qH3V0Se1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QARiu2Aj2ojtfCutxKhrB8ydiqRFtgg791WHcCHTbXiex/VcrTY/fJUu6naL4rCadFvp1ONBg== X-Received: by 10.223.182.19 with SMTP id f19mr8032089wre.166.1507623972709; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] (ANice-652-1-260-252.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr. [86.203.123.252]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 67sm10783168wmw.22.2017.10.10.01.26.11 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:26:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <66886719-6198-7a77-f945-47129102c047@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:26:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Reference draft, version 5 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:26:47 -0000 ANIMA WG,

I started to work on version -05 for the reference draft. As far as I recall, we only needed to work on the security considerations, then the document would be ready for WG last call.

The github repo is up to date (thanks to Brian for fixing references, and the should/must lowercasing).

Authors of related docs, please double-check whether any changes you made recently may need to be reflected in the reference model.

Co-authors: Please review and update your sections if required. Either work directly on github, or let me know what to change. The document to edit is
https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model.xml

Any other issues / comments?

Michael

 From nobody Wed Oct 11 06:47:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCD0132355 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r29Vk5YxETb5 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13CCB1342F8 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id u138so4993981wmu.4 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hmf+D+1GC0jxHbo8T/JRFNFIrHAeE5cEJVqEILN5dsw=; b=gwXnbvpdSuJNh5WZa3hHyv3qdsUnduAr1mrsCKvaq4QL7tpzWPVrKq5yn1UX5TqQm3 +9kC21GQZkjYHxdNbiZpUZITXbBTLl7b8Y1Yf7gRolz4aqK/JeUxDPclcjeOhBaZyKCC 64cX/k2AfG0npgtjaSLRm3kktCDLAbYoy/rknaN01CPtYqFMdJkD0z9y6GPaYmce1Ugz v6/ZjNs+DUHsV7pQ0+O20ZJTGpuLrf1Qzh69qlu53W4mOnxEQzI3AA2sVpDuxh4JCoOi qTh0rQc47aUh22p07FhPDlKX9MlMEpFX1jiYCaW1xlsPcilRLec8P18jLu0VxEJZjDKY 1HTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hmf+D+1GC0jxHbo8T/JRFNFIrHAeE5cEJVqEILN5dsw=; b=iHzvB3H28wM5HdEzGNSkQc3u/j61NcuOV9oT5Y0XuUmEXODJn1tmE3s6zD2kErTftu jXR0mfojnlpt+t55qne0KP5aL7CFCTqMcFTrOU1R6TziN0XWljuvf9Xk3MtEXTEoYb1Z 8n3GaTssNvSTt3Iovny3cLQ1kVeez7TQRFZE3S+Sf91rrgJfVT1cT0NsqS7cRZjiIrjE Z1RSiBgSZK5kiPADmVHWr6Y/Sy8l7ANsR7VrGgeQ9ErttFIyTjCr09FpYzCdYe4n/NrW q/jAmGRSdTX7bYTqrFmABdmKKjW2hR8+rhOwzJqXP4fhSMQ03vcncTpCT5I7ZHku832d SC2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWCDTTS0ZzDQwWlOOIdAZrXo0inqU/QyOm2EwG4h7+xiVqiZGe7 9MQ9ZGRLv+w4BoaeZmofdADAbs4H X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCTH3EgOsvDgIe9EoXV9Iy4KEBBGYJ0zHUmxcE6EkBu6BRCDfdxEEJb6YO83r+sbZ+0duJcNg== X-Received: by 10.28.24.7 with SMTP id 7mr15699844wmy.78.1507729632329; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] (ANice-652-1-260-252.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr. [86.203.123.252]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t76sm11856309wmd.12.2017.10.11.06.47.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:47:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: "anima@ietf.org" Cc: Artur Hecker Message-ID: <73b9af4d-de2d-e35f-55d9-3108880ac749@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:47:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft, version 5 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:47:29 -0000 Just incorporated the comments from Artur into the draft (on github for n= ow), FYI: On 26/07/17 19:55, Artur Hecker wrote: > Dear community, dear Authors, > > > I reread the draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-04. I hope it's not arriv= ing at an inappropriate moment, but please find some notes and remarks be= low: > > > 1. Page 6: s/potentiall/potential Fixed. > > 2. Page 8: Section 4. The text mentions "must implement" and "other" fu= nctions, but fails to correctly guide the reader as to the MUST or not MU= ST of the functions in the following subsections. It is partly not even c= lear from the semantics of the subsections. > > Suggestion: clearly group MUST, SHOULD and MAY IMPLEMENT functions in t= he subsections. > In re-reading this section, and considering it's an informational documen= t, I agree this is misleading. For a while I was playing around with various= "must" and "should" ideas, but abandoned this idea. The draft is too generic to even start to indicate what is "must" or "sho= uld". So I now completely removed the "musts" etc in the intro of this section.= With that change, I think it reads correctly for an informational documen= t. It's finally up to the other drafts (ACP, BRSKI, etc) to specify what is = MUST and SHOULD. > 3. Page 12: Information Distribution - consider rewriting parts of this= section entirely. Several problems: > > a) Remove repetitive text in the beginning: > "Certain forms of information, such as Intent, must be distributed acro= ss an autonomic domain. The distribution of information is also a functio= n of the Autonomic Control Plane. One form of such information is Intent= =2E" > > Suggestion: Either remove the first inclusion, or the entire last sente= nce. I would rewrite these three, see next point: > > b) There seems to be a problem with the statement above, as the "must" = is somehow misleading in a potentially normative text. What is meant here= is that some information requires dissemination, while other might not r= equire that. > > Suggestion - please REWRITE e.g. as follows: > "Certain forms of information require per its nature distribution acros= s a (part of) autonomic domain. Such information distribution is a functi= on of the Autonomic Control Plane. As an example, Intents require distrib= ution across the whole autonomic domain as per definitions from RFC7575."= Agree with a) and b) and have changed the text accordingly. > c) Later, the text in this section somehow confuses the high level requ= irements (=3Dinformation distribution) with a specific implementation, no= tably flooding. Note that there is a subtle difference between the requir= ement to reach all recipients (indeed, the current text seems to equal fl= ooding to that) and flooding, which technically usually means "unconstrai= ned broadcast". [E.g. Wikipedia: "Flooding is a simple computer network r= outing algorithm in which every incoming packet is sent through every out= going link except the one it arrived on"]. This will lead to explosive me= ssage number growth, as the ACP uses routing - which does not guarantee a= tree structure - while the scale of an autonomic domain is, by definitio= ns of RFC7575, only constrained by the Intent as such ("the autonomic dom= ain is the set of nodes, to which the intent needs to be sent"). At the s= ame time, there are better known algorithms for routing, which achieve "d= istribution to all recipients" without "sending on al > l links except the one it arrived on" (e.g. structured broadcast, etc= ). > > Suggestion: stay at the requirements level in the Reference text, which= this draft represents. In other words, remove suggestions of implementat= ions, or reword if the requirement to reach all nodes is meant. Disagree in some points with this one. There are different ways of floodi= ng, and we're not suggesting an implementation here. I think that the phrasin= g with "should" is weak enough not to confuse, and I think we *do* want to = make the point that this should be very simple. BTW, flooding is entirely independent of the routing protocol in our case= =2E Please re-read. If you really have a problem, shout again! :-) > 4. Page 17, Section 6.3.3. The Information Distribution ASA (*). > While the text above (on page 12: Information Distribution) says that I= nformation Distribution is function of ACP, somehow there is a distinct s= ection in this draft, talking about an Information Distribution ASA, whic= h is NOT ACP ASA, and which is not obligatory. > > How to read this correctly? Hmmm... Information distribution is implemented as an ASA. That is really the mai= n point of section 6.3.3. I think the confusion is in the term "is a function of the ACP". I'll replace that with "runs inside the ACP". ASAs typically run on the ACP. See also figure 2. There was a view in the WG that Intent may not be required on all nodes i= n a domain. For example, you may have simple sensors at the edge which join t= he ACP but don't act on Intent. Does that make it clearer? Re-Reading 6.3.3, I think it is actually corre= ct as written... (the change was in the previous section). =20 > > 5. Page 17, Section 7.1: "How an AN Network Is Managed" > a) Please consider changing the title. AN is "autonomic network" networ= k network :-) I agree that the heading raises eyebrows, this is why the very first sentence explains this seeming contradiction: We're talking about partial= ly autonomic networks, which the WG feels will be the common implementation = for a long while. What about: "Managing a (partially) Autonomic Network" as a title? I'll u= se this one for now. > b) The first paragraph says that the co-existence is twofold. However, = I can think of at least one other way: the ACP could be used as a transpo= rt channel for "traditional" management. E.g. ACP could be used to transp= ort NETCONF messages, instead of SSH or BEEP in NETCONF. Not clear, what = twofold means here (just an example, limitation, strong statement, etc). Yes, misleading. Re-worked that paragraph, and added your example. Please= re-read. > > 6. Page 18, Section 7.2: "Intent" > Please reread and correct this phrase: "It is expected Intent definitio= ns from autonomic function(s) and even from traditional network managemen= t elements". (missing verb) Removed that sentence. > Later in the text, the section references I-D.liu-anima-grasp-distribut= ion, which is odd, given that the actual Information Distribution section= (see above) does not. Yet, information distribution in I-D.liu-anima-gra= sp-distribution is not limited to intents. Added reference in the above section. Information distribution *includes*= Intent, but there is other information. I think we've been consistent on this poi= nt. > 7. Page 19, Section 7.5: "Control loops" > The section talks about an "Autonomic System". Unless I am mistaken, an= autonomic system is not defined (e.g. in RFC7575). This is a minor issue= , as we all can imagine what a "system" is. Changed to "autonomic network". > 8. Page 20, Section 7.6: "APIs" > There is a strong "MUST" requirement in this section (express and prese= rve semantics across different domains), which is not as clear as a MUST = should be. First, it's not clear what "express and preserve semantics" me= ans (semantics of what? Of objects? Of object methods? Of the results del= ivered by object methods? Of all of them?). Second, the "domain" is not d= efined: is an autonomic domain meant? Note that this notion is dynamic, a= s per intent scope, so probably not a very good reference. Third, the req= uirement is not corroborated clearly. Instead, an example is given, which= we might discuss in its relevance to the ANIMA WG and work scope. Is ANI= MA implementing software contracts? Is it a MUST requirement? Probably no= t. Note that web-based systems today have no such formal specifications, = as mentioned in this section. Example: invariants; these are nice to have= , but hard to determine for any complex piece of software (like a web ser= vice, etc). I think what was meant was "APIs must be able to express and preserve the semantics of data models." Will change accordingly for now. Who was the author of this section? John= ? Please re-view and comment. We clearly want to avoid doing the precise specs her= e, and we should focus on the AN specific points only. > 9. Page 20, Section 7.7: "Data Model" > Question: why do we need this section? This looks like some text book. = Do we have a specification of data model in ANIMA? Information model? Any= thing like that? If not, I guess this can be shortened, as it is "for ref= erence" only. (What is MRACL? Used without explanation in text). This section was provided by John and I leave him to comment here. I thin= k the main point was to explain the need for a data and information model. > 10. Page 22, Section 8.1: > s/mechanisms exists/mechanisms exist. fixed. > 11. Page 23, Section 9: "Security Considerations" > Please rephrase "run inside the encrypted ACP". I hope that it's not si= mply "encrypted" but actually features the full range of cryptographic da= ta protection methods. > > Rationale: I would argue that integrity is more important than confiden= tiality in the ANIMA scope. As encryption alone does not provide any prot= ection against modification, and since hopefully the used mechanisms (see= Section 9.2) go beyond encryption, I would recommend to use a more corre= ct wording, something like "protected" or "cryptographically protected AC= P". > > Generally, the section does not sufficiently presents the threat of mes= sage modification and replay, including the discovery messages. Also, aut= hentication is not sufficiently covered, even though a reference to I-D.i= etf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra is made. Not sure it's the best approach= , as bootstrapping refers to how to enroll the node, and the authenticati= on is probably using standard mechanisms? Normally, the threats should be= described independently of the specific mechanisms. I'll work over the security considerations in the next step. Point taken = :-) Thanks a lot for the input Artur! The github version now contains all the changes mentioned above. Michael > > > Regards > artur > From nobody Wed Oct 11 12:18:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C5613208E for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zjh0CRzWamfT for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com (mail-pf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52C65126B6D for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id x7so1740664pfa.1 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JB6gqW8B/Sfi4a+Cp9JkMhxvD7Mqul+PbknYArqp5q0=; b=o8mEhai4dTwKu0ciOHJuQfquWI4hP8Tf/JExlgzHUGETzDRGDfPvfXK/6T19U7DZPT w46AIhzAksH+N574wfV15AFb/C+onkczX0l6R+lJ5rgF4yQM4U3oYJQ6Y4GzD9t8YcnA fhHEeN7WcnpaJ0P4MafEP4UDdyvscvo8cOT+j+jgnbCysfN96m+704OrzuGpVYTSAE0/ j/xTot2ET2JZL+hGwsZfKdbV12uxIovUq/w/U9y/7Dn7STMmV0OvK7qp6tAeBxHCWZ3C L4H9mb+B35JDCZ6k7KGi24ikQ3DdrTc4b/WK+DVN0OlyWiS5k82Q+1xv8vynayTFkubV oHVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JB6gqW8B/Sfi4a+Cp9JkMhxvD7Mqul+PbknYArqp5q0=; b=DZbBnEU8L62jh0EH9tcwCQ5ut4zTu66bvJ70h2UwXEnzAPrMN1VL/G6w12DsJjf07X nHW4QvPGrRpAnZicet6IoWVxjCEhe9sLb86o2QTyRSgQP8bnph5bds5XhiAbOZt/w9U+ /mQDvGbwE9eczB11NOoa2GMoo4EV21jdyKXv6YbTQM7g/YA17J8rGgvl1RvLwu8UFg19 +01RHk1OEGMEq4VXRyu6k/kldegy6WEtrvzwufPgxLTpALisR8aj1Vfj+seZ+wMEDFug RQjXdrwnuwYKst+9yXIYu78A/147e9kbjf2Ey0SwfYWu9XiUgQ7S79+ZP3Z64h/F2Bc4 OjBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWLt54TlX7g92Axz/mS0YWSwfAzhBO/lhynrO8l8ar7g+8HewJi ptODUJ8bNEtdGVKVBUV2G2pNLg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCbVbZ6gLtgZQKK82XT/Y7D25UELzGrojWR6THvY/HaS/zpQU8ZKqBKZ1KSxHrtoUkMYUKmkg== X-Received: by 10.98.209.88 with SMTP id t24mr24125pfl.269.1507749500827; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o128sm9107320pfg.118.2017.10.11.12.18.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:18:19 -0700 (PDT) To: "Michael H. Behringer" , "anima@ietf.org" Cc: Artur Hecker References: <73b9af4d-de2d-e35f-55d9-3108880ac749@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <3bd06555-bd61-f079-2eed-eb0ec1a4b530@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:18:23 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73b9af4d-de2d-e35f-55d9-3108880ac749@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft, version 5 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:18:22 -0000 On 12/10/2017 02:47, Michael H. Behringer wrote: ...> It's finally up to the other drafts (ACP, BRSKI, etc) to specify what is MUST > and SHOULD. Agreed. That's not to say that lower case must, should etc. are forbidden in an informational document where they fit naturally in the text, but we should not accidentally make the reference model normative. ... > There are different ways of flooding, Yes. It has sometimes been interpreted to simply mean broadcast (like ARP) but I don't see it as a misleading word in this case. ... > Information distribution is implemented as an ASA That isn't entirely consistent with draft-liu-anima-grasp-distribution. I know that's not a WG document, but it's what we have so far. I think a better statement is: Information distribution is implemented as an ASA function. The subtle difference is that it might be built into an existing ASA. For example, in draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management we have an objective "PrefixManager.Params" for distributing information. However, I expect generic information such as Intent will be handled by a generic ASA. I think this can be fixed with a little wordsmithing of 6.3.3. Brian From nobody Thu Oct 12 00:53:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1CA132F3F for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKE-NFSKB_Ji for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6233E132C2A for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id q124so10685752wmb.0 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=NN+3KEK57k5uKwI4a6HuKzzbeNoOhDiPrtn4G1Ty4OA=; b=W3bq49UOFffGbujFMz7U8ftyLfOInsczOL6c5oDslDrZGBEnzVEMmlohzJ9pb8Pb70 cSxohiuXEfXblcQGeGDF/Oj/UGjTI6WrA4OFNTAovVXTCdnyFp9Hme2QYw/4fhmmlLhL 6s9jlyRnaFWFULx/tXp+KZ55T3BlzjR4Pa5AZUfO535ftSXGylIdowX7KajdNppFIG+Q HzMhDNHtcUR3lnX35z3ihNOfU0HyWhPDH8l4Y82pHENojXzul3BGiDciBCNdnRu8dZfB YL3Wf7Rd5rDPhtg6nEYMjxh+fCFv9hXLoJ4euCfm7R7vAve2l8x6xwZ1faCIvCrthbSp qa3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=NN+3KEK57k5uKwI4a6HuKzzbeNoOhDiPrtn4G1Ty4OA=; b=AYH85bS/HmBVQf/zbm80VX1DJBBnxJS3DHb+Xw9YG0Q+wBucNAwD/ruaNV3nXZU2nQ m9t3BXGRmI5tkCf7n8D4T1bvaIfkqHCve58yOyyvDj9o3lCGfWqbdGWd2x/H6nb6AZqC efmg/FZRu2WG1SwFn+CjcH5HFXoP2rIy8mXSQ3XbvU+/FrjzC2QeBX5+htYpYcEkVMVf nDypUzRjIAR6aupNwH4KX3N1n7zwwHoHAHyWzm9UuVy8iDOLXyFdvvwvu3OngQRESEcD 5/KVDI38tRhY6EOB/78WZaPOlz8RZ9YkCd2od8lOedhToEAfkx4cdpQa+XRX1EgD7MDZ gkTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVJmvJgWankOEOznPGFH2KZOvRHBn3pGtn43uVLCYUoQ7xgNhL8 eTxY3rbEwZm59lNoijPsxszQAbNQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDCMCyTnTQ79xdp0IFzY+M4cT+VB1bnH1VyKa/IWSXHdMD645LnTkAqaHp5OckesdKtuZNoIg== X-Received: by 10.80.182.226 with SMTP id f31mr2026436ede.110.1507794799911; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] (ANice-652-1-69-216.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr. [86.205.68.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k10sm8252792edi.27.2017.10.12.00.53.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: Brian E Carpenter , "anima@ietf.org" Cc: Artur Hecker References: <73b9af4d-de2d-e35f-55d9-3108880ac749@gmail.com> <3bd06555-bd61-f079-2eed-eb0ec1a4b530@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:53:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3bd06555-bd61-f079-2eed-eb0ec1a4b530@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft, version 5 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 07:53:23 -0000 On 11/10/17 21:18, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 12/10/2017 02:47, Michael H. Behringer wrote: > ...> It's finally up to the other drafts (ACP, BRSKI, etc) to specify what is MUST >> and SHOULD. > Agreed. That's not to say that lower case must, should etc. are forbidden in > an informational document where they fit naturally in the text, but we should > not accidentally make the reference model normative. > ... >> There are different ways of flooding, > Yes. It has sometimes been interpreted to simply mean broadcast (like ARP) but > I don't see it as a misleading word in this case. > > ... >> Information distribution is implemented as an ASA > That isn't entirely consistent with draft-liu-anima-grasp-distribution. > I know that's not a WG document, but it's what we have so far. > I think a better statement is: > Information distribution is implemented as an ASA function. > The subtle difference is that it might be built into an existing > ASA. For example, in draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management we have > an objective "PrefixManager.Params" for distributing information. > > However, I expect generic information such as Intent will be > handled by a generic ASA. > > I think this can be fixed with a little wordsmithing of 6.3.3. Brian, completely agree with you, will fix that in the text. Thanks for the note! Michael > > Brian > From nobody Thu Oct 12 02:23:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D363A1342DD for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0oFeKC-D2r6r for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E1B4132076 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id i124so11251080wmf.3 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hHJFhVscGujV/f6+heGKSLXG33slawZzj+IQ0zhNv+4=; b=K2cJ3eR9juSJtM0BSv1qFinJf+eWLubyXO/oEN4PGCufUYX03uSGKmKTmANbqtj4zp VGCJRWECSXQ5rhkVzOtk+xNMyEwGHNLvhq8QOi+oag6xOw8MnT05MHyGwawfTesRyyzB Kvrzeor5lKvV+ZKRHAWVbFAVGGRe6yRqSXjAxaxMlIYAFkJVZSE0eS9P4tPe7T2fsmxQ f+ZT1WRDq6+2IWwSl9+6mK+ueN4bgF+2Qjp3SCYAeRMh/phhE5MnMuFEJ8tOkdkc+8ZM kIReLlITFcTYhPSwCcP66hH0fGSbkq482xBupmbcvgH0dL6Y2s+J3OrdAPwd13vPfrT1 fkqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=hHJFhVscGujV/f6+heGKSLXG33slawZzj+IQ0zhNv+4=; b=FfxzgOp5vIOTRWploQr0wii6LgYSBWt8rJaI1rvo741gTKvXUlz1+jUipedhdfsdHi +4ZxE067YIev/FgLiwMY6+tENrfccPapCqvVHJKDgroYFz/qMseAmrbD1HU1S+SnL3hp gZoAqHIEmtF/Om4yC1f+sz033xNaU4UuXDLqCcpyWNJIGMFwlFPTRd2p06RH10pL1KBp EkW6o9zyZm6qnToEfCVjOg3ppqykSLdTEhoU4v+JtuZ06JbLPp6cymxMr0CALrkETVdy V9mxYF0++YE0CYZBBtS9qv3Fqk3O5JfZFhutpX6czF3kQ3EIDe/WNwOdNcvM8RPoHQkB 44rQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXzhnA8VU32PSjvXOhEEpIY1+/R5aUJPvUv56jbdBNMHGFOwfcv NyqKFUvbioVmHVSOlPGTDP4pYIst X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDFLfdFcZ6Uc/C72agjd6u20te7QYbZPd4MYVlKLjQhGUNkxlLzfHqg8f//v1Z8JTeNs+hItA== X-Received: by 10.28.128.212 with SMTP id b203mr1174064wmd.82.1507800189511; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] (ANice-652-1-69-216.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr. [86.205.68.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 133sm17540547wmu.4.2017.10.12.02.23.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:23:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:23:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:23:13 -0000 As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed work. I have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section. The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the attack surface is huge. All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment! Right now only on github: https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model.txt Other than that: - on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John. - otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken into account. Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-) Michael From nobody Thu Oct 12 08:41:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BBC134518 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:41:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8IZRe4M3cHRh for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C28BD13331E for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 08:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D26200A5 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C6C81103 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:40:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] some technical terminology considerations in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 15:41:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Vouchers as issues by the MASA and passed on the to the pledge by the Registrar (JRC) are immutable, and the term "voucher" is perfectly fine. Writing code and documenting test cases, I find that I am sometimes confused by the different (signed) thing that the pledge sends to the JRC, and the thing the JRC sends to the MASA. They are both voucher requests, and they are syntactically similar, but they are semantically different. I mean I gotta given them different test names and store inputs and outputs in semantically meaningful file names... I propose to include an adjective in front of voucher request for the two different situations. This would be for deeply technical conversations among those steeped in the art; Max has pointed out that voucher vs voucher-request is already confusing for some so I don't want to make it worse. In addition in the JRC->MASA arc are three kinds of voucher requests which are semantically different: a) ones without any prior-signed-voucher-request b) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a pledge-signed artifact c) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a (previously-signed) MASA artifact I don't know what to suggest. I have in mind: colours, flavours, baking terms. This is indeed a bikeshed question, so I hope it will elicit a really long thread :-) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnfjQsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWsqAgAokcDH9bwIg9uriDTA4NpvhBH/ukox2qX3E1Vr/RhQSqlcM1FSvqNVd9I Mc5S2mC+001kYnZombJnEI4d9ow6+9GaIDuaSJRvgaTtqToWlkIJ1SiRluhTz42T IvvfILK5lzasVcvWhE4tw9EcXegfrEmpTF1IWjYkzF+vocTOsIEGnbrh6oor0H4g cWbQ3m2prj/F+NlRk2s1y1oXpyT5j9He2RxQjzCHagW5bMO4lP162PfPRwss/W6V EFGQrPlVS7ZuRZtaSL+ckPuBX5aSfr0zo6gvbg9SD1lHXBFU0V/Ztz6QLVEo8vVz uOxJJWIYOdkVXbF+GbcyYsDtl6yFTA== =NPpt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Oct 12 11:13:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7011134538; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AwKFa4enw215; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32587134526; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DXN76269; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:13:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:13:43 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.11]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:13:30 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "anima@ietf.org" CC: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore Thread-Index: AdNDg+5AjPE6nYUMTgCBiR56ZS1ffw== Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:13:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.66.13] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DFNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7391330B2 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, REPTO_QUOTE_YAHOO=0.646, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x8yejA058lgL for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic302-31.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic302-31.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.135.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C91E132930 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1507834497; bh=K+6tN68lhN1JCYiBXRPVyUSqj31rTyxgAzjRvMUb8UY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=W01dUvDjIrmJyBOn95RTqTIItzFr6sp5lHK1E8aBg/Fino/Kdt7xavRslK/Zj/2A9pvNDY91qgLwlW+BsjloVvXM9yESAgYmIbpmGEEf/Wkht31RqzJn000zKf42bG7xhUiYlE48T6Q6IRs6LCcQb2+LXPrgP2bl2V5bmN6Znw3oH8SdIfN4Q4loY6g7cxN8789dvbcsBl6Pey5GAziUGKEOz3I47DH30myWE9LqTsL78O9fvvUu+2kns3kMsQ2kSGoZ3Lx2DU5l9YDSmVbo4e4BwB5DslWgvylWFZcNK6Wj+h6A+R0EgMkRpKGSpdd3L78l86pQLW07QH+agY5+gQ== X-YMail-OSG: bY5ASN0VM1mTvmmu5fnHMoUaH.UZFdRJlnwc.8fCk3DQdE5yWVLlBrsUxb2pgne ztL2wfTO00lNABbE_yXBsBa3_lXCdqD.sI59nf.n9yxIiZukzA2g_DvOOym_0GZlBpzZo9NpZzo. Z3ob0TEQW_IUA1AVj8eBDY9Cz9Gu_l..vLhbPmocs_oLi1i34uASqySOlN9KbBqvvKDnQrBVwYfz hTpjmDa3cqeE6KVuso3vMm0YZ19utOVhFPoAnveNr5wqyIjVoiATaQQgkoUDexcROdMhql.BBALB U8eEoTirpoV7qXGUNHyVKxF0Ve6dQpIt4Qdstw.7VxefPa2cJLVa3QIbC3ZG8t4hxhFBxY18X0_7 oKss5_0HMmVRVyiBtr0.P9d4aWJa4U70_cp6_V2GSdsTdye3GKHVhEvlIiZUScT3MsY7e_42zBsO 08lKgyueUVCjTzV3SqoQ_eC_53x7hpd47TDqjm4i4tAYQAZLcN6UapC1hSLbT0hfnGvHtY_45aUK Lu6Q_uFQ5vb8Pdlfo Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:54:57 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:50:54 +0000 (UTC) From: shah zahidur Reply-To: "shah_zahidur@yahoo.com" To: "jiangsheng@huawei.com" , "anima@ietf.org" Cc: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <224255051.718160.1507834254643@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_718159_993619549.1507834254640" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10726 YahooMailAndroidMobile YMobile/1.0 (com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail/5.16.3; Android/4.4.2; H50; H50; H50; H50; 4.59; 1280x720; ) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:54:59 -0000 ------=_Part_718159_993619549.1507834254640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, How much time max per presenter. RegardsShah Zahidur Rahman Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android=20 =20 On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Sheng Jiang wrot= e: Hi, all anima, =C2=A0 We have req= uested one session of 2.5-hour for the ANIMA WG meeting for IETF-100 (Singa= pore) and are starting to collect agenda items for the session. Please send= your request for agenda by Oct 27th, Thursday. =C2=A0 Giving that most of = our chartered work items have been sent to IESG for publication by the meet= ing, we expect short time slots for them. For this coming meeting, we would= like to discuss potential future ANIMA works. The chairs did send a =E2=80= =9Ccalling new works and discussion=E2=80=9D mail (URL below) to the mailin= g list, in which three categories of potential works that may be interested= by the group are mentioned. =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/= anima/current/msg03019.html =C2=A0 As normal, the priority among these non= -charter work items would be: these that have active discussion in mail lis= t, then these have submitted drafts, and topics without drafts. =C2=A0 Plea= se send us (anima-chairs at ietf.org) requests for time slot by October 27t= h, Thursday and include: Name of time slot: Name of draft(s): Time requeste= d: Presenter name(s): =C2=A0 More details about the IETF 100, Singapore ca= n be found at: http://www.ietf.org/meeting/100/index.html =C2=A0 Again, pr= esenters and draft authors please invoke active discussions in the ANIMA li= st. We have very limited time for each topic in the face-to-face meeting. M= ail list is a very good place to discuss and reach consensus on technical i= ssues. =C2=A0 Best regards, =C2=A0 Toerless & Sheng _______________________= ________________________ Anima mailing list Anima@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima =20 ------=_Part_718159_993619549.1507834254640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

How much time max per present= er.

Regards
Shah Zahidur Rahman


On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Sheng Jiang
<j= iangsheng@huawei.com> wrote:
=20 =20 
Hi, all anima,
=20 
 
=20 
We have requested one session of 2.5-hour f=
or the ANIMA WG meeting for IETF-100 (Singapore) and are starting to collec=
t agenda items for the session. Please send your request for agenda by Oct =
27th, Thursday.=20

 
=20

Giving that most of our chartered work item=
s have been sent to IESG for publication by the meeting, we expect short ti=
me slots for them. For this coming meeting, we would like to discuss potent=
ial future ANIMA works. The chairs did send a =E2=80=9Ccalling new works an=
d discussion=E2=80=9D mail (URL below) to the mailing list, in which three =
categories of potential works that may be interested by the group are menti=
oned.
=20

  
=20

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/=
web/anima/current/msg03019.html
=20

  
=20

As normal, the priority among thes=
e non-charter work items would be: these that have active discussion in mai=
l list, then these have submitted drafts, and topics without drafts.=

=20

 
=20

Please send us (anima-chairs at ietf.org) requests for time slot by October 27th, Thur=
sday and include:=

=20

Name of time slot:
=20

Name of draft(s):
=20

Time requested:
=20

Presenter name(s):
=20

  
=20

More details about the IETF 100, Singapore =
can be found at:<=
/pre>=20

http://www.ietf.org/meeting/10=
0/index.html<=
/pre>=20

  
=20

Again, presenters and draft authors please =
invoke active discussions in the ANIMA list. We have very limited time for =
each topic in the face-to-face meeting. Mail list is a very good place to d=
iscuss and reach consensus on technical issues.
=20

 
=20

Best regards,
=20

 
=20

Toerless & Sheng
=20
_______________________________________________
Anima mailing list=
Ani= ma@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima
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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA08D132811; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 13:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DXN88833; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:37:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:37:31 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.11]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 04:37:23 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "shah_zahidur@yahoo.com" , "anima@ietf.org" CC: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore Thread-Index: AdNDg+5AjPE6nYUMTgCBiR56ZS1ff///iBcA//9eiAA= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:37:22 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF4E1B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <224255051.718160.1507834254643@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <224255051.718160.1507834254643@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.66.13] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF4E1BNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.59DFD28D.009D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.11, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 4f03a27003196d9e95430e03935a4649 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a4sm10174750pfj.72.2017.10.12.17.41.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:41:22 -0700 (PDT) To: "Michael H. Behringer" , "anima@ietf.org" References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <12d9f871-a2e4-edfd-b672-2ace1598f6f6@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 13:41:28 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 00:41:26 -0000 Hi Michael, One additional issue for outside attackers is to mention that a specific attack surface is anywhere that an autonomic entity interacts with a non-autonomic entity, which is by definition outside the ANI security barrier. Unlike the second bullet in 9.2 "Risk of Insider Attacks", this is fairly specific to autonomic components. Regards Brian On 12/10/2017 22:23, Michael H. Behringer wrote: > As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed work. I > have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section. > > The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the > case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the > attack surface is huge. > > All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment! > > Right now only on github: > https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model.txt > > Other than that: > - on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John. > - otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken > into account. > > Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a > new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-) > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Fri Oct 13 09:39:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91F21331D9 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:39:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V7F76B_pVF0w for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC1413243A for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276DE200A5 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E732280E85 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:39:48 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Sheng I know that Max would like to put BRSKI to bed. I don't know how much time we really need about that. I'd like to contribute one slide to your status page to start the implementation status. I'll go make some wiki pages for that, and make a slide to summarize things and point at the wiki page. I won't be present physically (and remote presentation makes no sense for such a short item), so perhaps one of the chairs could speak to this 20s item. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlng7FAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVJjAf+L+lvDIQ9rHLwJjNJnzShNrZNfvl2C71sfpn5I/lH9xw2P8jYvfKew3ae 8rdTjAw7R48EBqJXTq+AdrFtPMXhrj14J+y4U4H11K1+dRsMgq8j05p+mGnaPqlm SOhyUrdQNmtto3ins00rgeEpL6peSgABnx/38jod4HFiXgmPZDJi8As3hHvuNUgz loM2mw1e9jTPZ1NL4ShyNMXoaW1p2t3ewD75+WEH9+w8VQ043ol0qgcJvGTcikcI N4LL8HrkcSnPNrgKGFK/LAN8C1DTpNe7eBNkrxy6sDWgJIMPy/t7Y+iI775ZUdnW 5dI9qOP4Hd+3QXhV1K5V0mDU/efrlw== =Wnf/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Oct 13 10:33:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351A51332CA; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:33:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 17:33:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) Authors : Max Pritikin Michael C. Richardson Michael H. Behringer Steinthor Bjarnason Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt Pages : 59 Date : 2017-10-13 Abstract: This document specifies automated bootstrapping of a remote secure key infrastructure (BRSKI) using vendor installed X.509 certificate, in combination with a vendor's authorizing service, both online and offline. Bootstrapping a new device can occur using a routable address and a cloud service, or using only link-local connectivity, or on limited/disconnected networks. Support for lower security models, including devices with minimal identity, is described for legacy reasons but not encouraged. Bootstrapping is complete when the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is successfully deployed to the device but the established secure connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the device as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 13 12:07:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B0B134216 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fxsg5hd7YkJP for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 586FA134285 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id g6so473337pgn.6 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2X/X6c/rUWNTMyPgIZRLfmu6iuyDP8AdPPdoVXvjnhw=; b=oZb9N2aIlmIkBKdSBUr8zdh0j/XX+mXwIUcohMqrdReefuDdcMBMsE7dL2gHtp/LRD JMKJs3DDsUxsQ5MArOhGh3x4aGJPNoShRpmuSAjzUYQ9iFGKRVaE33T01upNulhnLSYQ Cwfniu4tm7CPeznqe5Yd5LSYr/oNRL6AElSow3ZdPUdV+494C8Ah9MPTyOnL4mLYQ/0n 5ucGO7rFM8kRnSKi/cUOuVzQGtb2ah2ikVrMLUDREgYKtwZjXNn7meVj2R+vVH89sKQq cPHrxGJ+qkzedpN8NhhuuInxeLmbdzYab0DBmEw7sX17KJUvqFkenBHu/ZcP3DTkgl86 1OTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2X/X6c/rUWNTMyPgIZRLfmu6iuyDP8AdPPdoVXvjnhw=; b=pC8g66yP695giWlwFi5BdBcA+DVUAHspl8tw/eH+DEcToEsm2P8852PE40XDoPUA05 FeQ8H2gkbL3uAymbheGhlDBL98fK6dqbaRvjMJyPROiA5dA2KOytwGXO2kpy32aeUMTb TOiqJUBeDHvYPB9AfPL582d0vSKBTnENhwq7u949S0nvdEU+eQPVU6LlSAtCxVWFdu// 9AigOPQG5KQSczQj4aK6X2DPNRrEkGph0nCmTwOtMB4xcLttQzzowCx2DXqnpYkVHCDG 1OqnxM3N/CHqUsxPAYdwuVbyLQgusEwtHUdHLzLL9fptspQsWUOaXhxTGMSVNGZdgQW+ vLBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUzTavSYt55oaOqfgRKKmJpqjZFJjY+/6AMs7f01SzHBqAHj/CT 6PjwV/BrWrbe8ptqlEoBTTPudA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDK57AtSfAIa6CMi+d4Q4qAIxfSyojuO6qYtLYZWZHt6cnmwpbCm0xjr8gQdAkKgvKyREYm0A== X-Received: by 10.159.234.68 with SMTP id c4mr2217757plr.52.1507921640359; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c73sm4760470pfd.139.2017.10.13.12.07.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:07:19 -0700 (PDT) To: anima@ietf.org References: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <649b10ad-6a42-2622-a9b7-21ff53bda9af@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 08:07:28 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:07:23 -0000 Hi, I will review this carefully soon, but I already noticed one nit. The IANA Considerations needs to include registration of the two GRASP objectives. There's a model for that at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05#section-8 and the registry even exists: https://www.iana.org/assignments/grasp-parameters/grasp-parameters.xhtml#objective-names Regards Brian On 14/10/2017 06:33, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) > Authors : Max Pritikin > Michael C. Richardson > Michael H. Behringer > Steinthor Bjarnason > Kent Watsen > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt > Pages : 59 > Date : 2017-10-13 > > Abstract: > This document specifies automated bootstrapping of a remote secure > key infrastructure (BRSKI) using vendor installed X.509 certificate, > in combination with a vendor's authorizing service, both online and > offline. Bootstrapping a new device can occur using a routable > address and a cloud service, or using only link-local connectivity, > or on limited/disconnected networks. Support for lower security > models, including devices with minimal identity, is described for > legacy reasons but not encouraged. Bootstrapping is complete when > the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is > successfully deployed to the device but the established secure > connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the > device as well. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:43:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C5B413307B; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:43:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150793102959.23756.4082249849236806844@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:43:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:43:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP) Authors : Michael H. Behringer Toerless Eckert Steinthor Bjarnason Filename : draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11.txt Pages : 88 Date : 2017-10-13 Abstract: Autonomic functions need a control plane to communicate, which depends on some addressing and routing. This Autonomic Control Plane should ideally be self-managing, and as independent as possible of configuration. This document defines an "Autonomic Control Plane", with the primary use as a control plane for autonomic functions. It also serves as a "virtual out of band channel" for OAM communications over a network that is not configured, or mis-configured. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:47:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1710913309D for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a3J238H4tpxz for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E610713307B for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE4058C4AF for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:47:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 18099B0CE82; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:47:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:47:44 +0200 From: tte+ietf@cs.fau.de To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171013214744.GR31007@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA: old version: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-data-plane-11 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:47:52 -0000 Dear ANIMA WG. I recently noted that i made a mistake with the acp-10 .txt file that i uploaded to datatracker. It was an intermediate version missing the latest changes i did in -10. Only the .xml file i uploaded included all changes i made - primarily for BrianCs review. The email i sent to the WG mailing list in reply to Brian did include of course comments for all changes i made (in the xml file). For example, one big difference was the big picture showing how ACP acts as security and transport substrate in ACP (section 6.8.2), which indirectly came from SEC/TSV AD review of GRASP (we pushed it into ACP draft because ACP can define it authoritatively). I did not find any better way to fix this then to create version -11 which effectively only updates the .txt file (and of course includes a -11 changelog explaining this). http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-10.txt&url2=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11.txt I will now stop to upload .txt file to avoid these mistakes in the future. Especially because the auto-generated PDF file is also generated from TXT as is the "normal" HTML page. Only the tools real HTML autogenerated version is created from the XML when a TXT was uploaded *sigh* Cheers Toerless From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:49:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D0A13307B; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:48:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150793133991.23899.3820397689598978272@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:48:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:49:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP) Authors : Michael H. Behringer Toerless Eckert Steinthor Bjarnason Filename : draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12.txt Pages : 106 Date : 2017-10-13 Abstract: Autonomic functions need a control plane to communicate, which depends on some addressing and routing. This Autonomic Management and Control Plane should ideally be self-managing, and as independent as possible of configuration. This document defines such a plane and calls it the "Autonomic Control Plane", with the primary use as a control plane for autonomic functions. It also serves as a "virtual out of band channel" for OAM (Operations Administration and Management) communications over a network that is secure and reliable even when the network is not configured, or not misconfigured. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:53:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6A013309D; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mIuO2NCh3YRr; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 842D513307B; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9891658C4AF; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:52:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 8186AB0CE82; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:52:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:52:56 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Sheng Jiang Cc: "anima@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.authors@ietf.org" , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171013215256.GA21680@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE86398@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE869BC@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE869BC@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Review on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-09 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:53:05 -0000 Hi Sheng Thank you very much for the review. Sorry for the delay in replying to your great review. Alas, it had me think of some questions brought up to introduce some more (informational only!) text, eg. section 10.8 and then i also folded in feedback from others into the now posted -12 version of the ACP. I think the ACP document is now complete and have no desire for changes other than those raised by review with as little as possible changes. Note that when you sent your review against -09, i was still working on feedback for Brians review, so your changes where made against -10. See below for answers to your suggestions. I think i adopted them verbatim all except in 2? cases where i hope my response is acceptable to you. If not, please let me know. Alas, the -10 .txt that i uploaded after Brians review was wrong, only the -10 xml was right. So i also created version -11 to be able to point to the following diff as the relevant diff for the changes made for your review + other. I will send out another email do highlight the other changes separately. Diff: http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11.txt&url2=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12.txt Cheers Toerless > From: Anima [mailto:anima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sheng Jiang > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:01 PM > To: anima@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane.authors@ietf.org > Subject: [Anima] Review on draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane-09 > > > Hi, authors of draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane, > > > I am doing a thorough review as the document shepherd with my ANIMA chair h= > at on. Please address the below comments so that we could process this docu= > ment further. This is a petty long document. Therefore, my review may be a = > little bit disordered. Overall, I think this document has been in a good sh= > arp although I cannot claim all my comments are minor. I believe they are n= > ot difficult to address. thanks! > In introduction section, it is better to reference the "Autonomic Control P= > lane" definition & description in Section 5 of RFC7575, rather than "[RFC75= > 75] calls it the 'Autonomic Control Plane'" . Ack. > The ACP could actually be communication channel for both management and con= > trol plane. So, the name seems be mis-leading. My understanding is that we = > could not change the name in such late stage. But it worth to see more on t= > his in the introduction, even in the abstract. Ack. Check text change in abstract and the into paragraph you mention. > "This document describes options for a ... ACP". I am confused by the word = > "option". What option does it actually mean? At least, it is not clear from= > the context. Probably historic from early versions of the draft when we had a lot of options listed we either converged on or eliminated. I agree that the word "options" does not help the reader today anymore in that sentence. s/options/modular design/ > "It therefore remains operational even in...". My understanding for "it" is= > the network, but from the context, my first expression for "it" is ACP. s/It/The ACP/ > Used short for the first appearance, ANI, VRF, IKE, TLS/dTLS, SDN, NOC, OAM= > , NMS, CA and although GRASP, BRSKI, EST, ULA, are defined in Section 2, bu= > t their first appearance is before their terminologies. Ack. > Section 2, > > "ACP provides secure zero-touch network wide IPv6 connectivity between devi= > ces supporting it." This is not accurate. These two devices must be in the = > same autonomic network. Right. I tried to clean up terminology to have more precise definitions. The sentence changed into: "It provides secure zero-touch transitive (network wide) IPv6 connectivity for all nodes in the same ACP domain." and added: The ACP domain is the set of nodes with domain certificates that allow them to authenticate each other as members of the ACP domain. See Also: The ACP network constitutes all the nodes that have access to the ACP. It is the set of active and transitively connected nodes of an ACP domain plus all nodes that get access to the ACP of that domain via ACP edge nodes. Aka: i now try to consistently use "domain" in he context of cryptigraphic group membreship and "network" in the context of actual IPv6 reachability - and define the terms appropriately. > Actually, we did not define an important concept ye= > t - the domain of autonomic network. We were always assume there is only on= > e domain within the connectivity range or the autonomic network would natur= > ally be separated by non-AN devices. But it would not always be the case if= > AN technologies become widely deployed Right. If you have any specific text or considerations you would like to see added, please make request/suggestions. Otherwise i think that the above definitions are sufficient for the current document, but also flexible enough to extend into future more complex cases: Aka: an autonomic/ACP network can extend across multiple ACP domains because its about transitive connectivity, and we can define additional cross-domain interconnects. > In Section 3, > > > > "certain AAA misconfigurations can lock an administrator out of a device", = > I am not sure how ACP helps in this use case. It seems for me the only way = > is to log in with another admin account, then change the misconfig. It is n= > o different through normal data plane. This can still be recovered remotely= > without ACP. changed to: "for example misconfigurations that make AAA servers unreachable can lock an administrator out of a device;" As mentioned in other emails, followup work would be to define a GRASP announcement for AAA server across ACP, and e voila, problem solved ;-) > "The ACP provides reachability that is largely independent of the data plan= > e." Why "largely"? It implies that is still partially (maybe small proporti= > on) dependent on the data plane. changed to: The ACP provides reachability that is independent of the data plane (except for the dependency discussed in which can be removed through future work)) See section 6.12.2 - encap of secure channels specified is in data plane. > "ACP MUST NOT be tied to a particular protocol." ACP does need support from= > some specific protocol, GRASP, IPv6. I am sure you did not mean them. But = > the description should be improved to be more precise. Was changed in acp-10 due to same comment by Brian to: ACP4: The ACP MUST be generic. Usable by all the functions and protocols of the AN infrastructure. It MUST NOT be tied to a particular application or transport protocol. > "The ACP MUST provide security". I am not sure the "MUST". In many scenario= > s, for example, some layer has very strong layer 2 security mechanism, or n= > etwork with physics isolation/protection. The connectivity is the vital fun= > ctionality that ACP could provide, while security provided by ACP is redund= > ant or not necessary. a) It is really hard for customers to figure out what a product really does when the RFC it claims to support has many options. Especially for fundamental requirements like security. There are no PICS (Protocol Implementation Compliance Specification) or the like as in ISO documents. There is no good tradition for vendors to specify what options of an RFC they choose or RFCs to well express what options vendors MUST document. b) In BRSKI we had an evolution of making the use of strong security first optional and now mandatory (strong security = use of voucher). Making ACP RFC go along with strong security gives us the best possible security as a starting point. c) Through GRASP SEC AD review, we ended up inheriting the security requirments for GRASP into ACP (security substrate). That too would look weaker if we would change security back to SHOULD. If i take a),b) and c) together, IMHO for both BRSKI and ACP it would be best to stick with the strong security requirements, and then define in followup work variations of those solutions with lower security. These would be very simple/short documents (few pages at most), so easy to write and those would then solve especially problem a). Aka: security reduced products/solutions would only be able to claim support for the derived, security reduced RFCs, not main/secure BRSKI/ACP. I also added at the end of the ACP draft an informative section called "Adopting ACP concepts for other environments" where the last paragraph discusses possible security reduced options. To set the stage for thus future work. More opinions welcome of course. > "The default mode of operation of the ACP is hop-by-hop." I guess you mean = > "basic" or "fundamental" rather than "default". The multiple connectivity i= > s made up by hop-by-hop connections. Right. Text from behringer draft -00 when we where trying to figure out where to go to ;-). Simplified to: The ACP operates hop-by-hop, because > " ULA "Unique Local Address". The IPv6 equivalent to RFC1918 IPv4 addresse= > s. ACP addresses are ULA."Please don't consider ULA as an equivalent to RF= > C1918. We used to have relevant discussion in v6ops WG, and people had stro= > ng consensus on ULAs !=3D RFC1918. (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= > etf-v6ops-ula-usage-considerations-02#section-3.1) Same comment from Brian against -08. Changed already in -10 to: ULA A "Unique Local Address" (ULA) is an IPv6 address in the block fc00::/7, defined in [RFC4193]. It is the approximate IPv6 counterpart of the IPv4 private address ([RFC1918]). Text from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_local_address See also long explanation to brian why its IMHO proven very helpfull with customers to relate to rfc1918 (explains it a lot better than not doing it to most non-IPv6 experts). > The content of section 3.3 reads like the essential benefit rather than a s= > pecific use case, especially comparing to Section 3.1 and 3.2. More proper = > place for this may be Section 9 (Benefits). I beg to differ. Section 3.3 outlines what use-cases the ACP attempts to solve - without going much into technical detail how. Is IMHO necessary to have it at the beginning of the document as motivation for reading the rest of the document. Section 9 is not structured not around specific use-cases but around specific architectural 'self-X' properties. It is revisiting those after the reader is familiar with how the ACP works. If at all, section 9 is duplication of prior text, but i think it is quite useful to have this. Like in any good presentation or book you want to revisit your core message, and that where 3.3 gives the introduction from the user perspective, and section 9 the wrap-up from the technical perspective. > "ACP loopback interface" and "ACP virtual interface" refer to different thi= > ngs as defined in the Terminology section. However, in the main text, somet= > imes they are mixed together ((E.g. in section 5, Item 5 and 6). Either the= > y should be used in a canonical way in this document, or other more disting= > uished terminologies should be used to refer the two things. Right. I did fix up a lot of terminology arond interfaces in -10 already, and for -11 i did walk again through all 180 instances of "interface" and hopefully gave them all the correct words in before (ACP virtual/loopback, etc..). The terminology has definitions for ACP loopback interface and ACP virtual interface, so they are now well defined terms. > The terminology "ACP connect" same not proper. It would be more proper to c= > all the connect/channel for non-ACP device joining the ACP through an ACP d= > evice "ACP bridge"? ACP connect is a term some vendor already used in an ACP implementation for this functionality, so i wanted to reduce confusion in readers familiar with that term (including myself). Bridge is also a loaded word. If i would start terminology from scratch i would probably call it "ACP native unsecured interface", or the like, eg: descriptive. Aka: no change right now unless i hear stronger demand for term change. > In section 6, > > Initially, it must have a ... as well as an adjacency table."The word here = > is misleading. The authors should mean the functionality of an adjacency ta= > ble. But it reads like an adjacency table with already learned neighbor inf= > ormation. > Right. Similar comment from Brian. Changed in -10 to: To know to which nodes to establish an ACP channel, every ACP node maintains an adjacency table ... > Inadvert -> inadvertent ack. > The term "Autonomic Domain" first appears at section 6.1, it should be defi= > ned in section 3. Ok... the whole use of terminology was not very consistent, accurate or helpfull IMHO. I did a range of updates to use the terms "ACP domain/certificate/network" instead of the autonomic domain/certificate/network terms. Reason: RFC7475 and define the terms to apply to autonomic devices/nodes and we need to stay consistent to that terminology. But the ACP should be understood to be implementable/deployable without further autonomic options so ACP nodes do not need to be (fully) autonomic nodes. Rewritten section 6.1 now introduces these ACP * terms and relates them to the Autonomic * terms to explain this (ACP FOO == Autonomic FOO unless ACP node < autonomic node). Section 3 would have been too early and not fit the "use-case" focus of that chapter. > acp-address within ACP information should be optional. Done. > It may be the address is generated by AN after getting the domain certificate. Right. The draft is hinting at other means of address assignment in the new informative section 10.6 (Adopting ACP concepts for other environments). Of course without specifying any full solution. [ Note: I can easily see IoT networks not using pre-assined ACP addresses. But i would still like to explore more (not in this ACP doc of course) what security benefits we would get from nodes being able to cryptographically assert ownership of their IPv6 acp address. ] > It is worthy to clarify that although the LDevID contains ACP-information, = > it is not specific for ACP only; it is generic for other functions that req= > uest node-level authentication. Right. Section 6.1 now says: The ACP domain certificate can and should be used for any authentication between ACP nodes where the required security is domain membership. defines this "ACP domain membership check". The uses of this check that are standardized in this document are for the establishment of ACP secure channels () and for ACP GRASP ( Other uses are subject to future work, but it is recommended that it is the default security check for any end-to-end connections between ASA. It is equally useable by other functions such as legacy OAM functions. > "To establish an ACP securely, an ACP device MUST have a globally unique do= > main certificate (LDevID)"I think the requirement in this sentence is too s= > trong in two perspective: why globally unique, secondly it is not necessary= > to be a domain certificate that newly assigned in this domain. Furthermore= > , this seems imply ACP depend on BRSKI as pre-step, which I don't think is = > in authors original meaning. "globally unique" is like saying "please pay me with non-counterfit money" instead of saying "please pay me with money". So i guess it may sound offensive. Removed. Also removed reference to LDevID from 6.0 (too much detail there), but introduced it into aforementioned new section 6.1. Please check first three paragraphs of section: - explicitly says ACP does not prescribe how the node gets the certificate. Informative section explains options including BRSKI / Netconf. - IDevID / LDevID are not terms invented by BRSKI but by long term established security systems, eg: 802.1AR or others. Thats why we use them. - The ACP domain certificate does have to be explicitly assigned with ACP in mind because the way how nodes authenticate other nodes to belong to the ACP domain is because of the domain element in the Domain Information Field in the certificate. Let me know what pieces are still unclear so i can fix if necessary. > "The ACP network MUST have one or more nodes that support EST server through > which ACP nodes can renew their domain certificate." The work "MUST" is far too strong here. Hmm ;-) So i changed this as follows: ACP nodes MUST support certificate renewal via EST ("Enrollment over Secure Transport", see ) and MAY support other mechanisms. An ACP network must have at least one ACP nodes supporting EST server functionality across the ACP. The ACP address(es) of EST servers MAY be enrolled/provisioned into the ACP domain certificate during initial installation of the domain certificate. Reasoning: We need to have one mandatory mechanism for certificate renewal supported by all ACP nodes. If every ACP implementation would only support their own private idaho protocol, you would end up with undeployable ACP networks because of the complexity involved dealing with all those different vendor choices. The original sentence of course was wrong because vendors are welcome to implement additional mechanisms on top of this "lowest common denominator", so in an actual deployment (especially those that are single-vendor), you may not actually use EST. > "it should choose am FQDN" -> it should choose "an" FQDN fixed to "any" in -10 from Brians review. > "The format of the rfc822Name is choosen" -> The format of the rfc822Name i= > s "chosen". There are another 4 instance of "choosen". thanks. > "The loop-count MUST be sete to 255" -> The loop-count MUST be "set" to 255 Ack. > "When it is time for domain certificate reneal" -> When it is time for doma= > in certificate "renewal" Ack. > "the primarily imiting factor for shorter certificate lifetimes", my guess = > is "limiting" Ack. > "the assigning CA has enough performance" -> the assigning CA has enough "p= > erformance" Ack > "See Section 10.1 for further optimizationss" -> See Section 10.1 for furth= > er "optimizations" Ack. > The first sentence of section 6.3, "Because of the the considerations", th= > e second "the"should be deleted Ack. > "ACP discovery MUST NOT be enabled by default on any non-physical interface= > s." This seems rule out the possibility of applying ACP with virtual device= > s. My suggestion would be deleted the sentence since we ready have the foll= > ow up sentence "ACP discovery MUST NOT run inside the ACP." Or not deleting= > , we should at least soften it to be "SHOULD NOT". Ok: Changed all instances of "device-*" to "node-*", defined "device" to be "physical node" and only used it in examples where physcial node make sense. Introduced and use term "native interface" to refer to interface existing without configuration. Thats what IMHO defines physical interfaces in physical device - and "physcial interface in virtual device" does not sound right, but there are of course exact equivalences to physcial interfaces in virtual devices. Added section 10.3 to explain more how to enable/disable ACP. Inspired by refining that notion of native vs. non native interface, it expanded into also answring the yet unanswered question what to do against operators "shutting" down interfaces and more. > Section 6.5, > "the next step after discoving" -> the next step after "discovering" Ack. > "The roles of Bob abd Alice" -> The roles of Bob "and" Alice Ack. > "It is not up to Alice to devide" -> It is not up to Alice to "divide" Ack. > "interfaces are the ame devices" -> interfaces are the "same" devices Ack. > Section 6.6, > "certificate must be valid occording to"-> certificate must be valid "accor= > ding" to Ack. > Section 6.7, > "the ACP secure channel protocol" -> the ACP secure channel "protocol" Ack. > "ACP mechanisms they support" -> ACP mechanisms they "support" fixed to "ACP secure channel protocols they support". > "ACP secure channel MUST imediately be terminated" -> ACP secure channel MU= > ST "immediately" be terminated Ack. > "Note that is is not standard behavior" -> Note that is not standard behavi= > or Ack > Section 6.8, > "Authentication is via the the domain" -> Authentication is via the domain Ack. Sentences got changed for -10 already. > Section 6.10, > "65536 different virtualized adddresses" -> 65536 different virtualized "ad= > dresses" Ack. > Section 6.11, > on-RPL-aware leafs (or "Internet") accoding to -> on-RPL-aware leafs (or "I= > nternet") "according" to Ack > "the ACP will only accommodate" -> the ACP will only "accommodate" Ack. > Routeable - > routable; at least two instances Ack. > "The multi-access ACP virtual interace" -> The multi-access ACP virtual "in= > terface" Ack. > Thanks for your hand work and good contribution to the ANIMA group. Thank you! Toerless > Regards, > > > > Sheng > ============== Original mail appended ========================================== From: Anima [mailto:anima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sheng Jiang Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:01 PM To: anima@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane.authors@ietf.org Subject: [Anima] Review on draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane-09 Hi, authors of draft-ietf-anima-auotnomic-data-plane, I am doing a thorough review as the document shepherd with my ANIMA chair h= at on. Please address the below comments so that we could process this docu= ment further. This is a petty long document. Therefore, my review may be a = little bit disordered. Overall, I think this document has been in a good sh= arp although I cannot claim all my comments are minor. I believe they are n= ot difficult to address. In introduction section, it is better to reference the "Autonomic Control P= lane" definition & description in Section 5 of RFC7575, rather than "[RFC75= 75] calls it the 'Autonomic Control Plane'" . The ACP could actually be communication channel for both management and con= trol plane. So, the name seems be mis-leading. My understanding is that we = could not change the name in such late stage. But it worth to see more on t= his in the introduction, even in the abstract. "This document describes options for a ... ACP". I am confused by the word = "option". What option does it actually mean? At least, it is not clear from= the context. "It therefore remains operational even in...". My understanding for "it" is= the network, but from the context, my first expression for "it" is ACP. Used short for the first appearance, ANI, VRF, IKE, TLS/dTLS, SDN, NOC, OAM= , NMS, CA and although GRASP, BRSKI, EST, ULA, are defined in Section 2, bu= t their first appearance is before their terminologies. Section 2, "ACP provides secure zero-touch network wide IPv6 connectivity between devi= ces supporting it." This is not accurate. These two devices must be in the = same autonomic network. Actually, we did not define an important concept ye= t - the domain of autonomic network. We were always assume there is only on= e domain within the connectivity range or the autonomic network would natur= ally be separated by non-AN devices. But it would not always be the case if= AN technologies become widely deployed In Section 3, "certain AAA misconfigurations can lock an administrator out of a device", = I am not sure how ACP helps in this use case. It seems for me the only way = is to log in with another admin account, then change the misconfig. It is n= o different through normal data plane. This can still be recovered remotely= without ACP. "The ACP provides reachability that is largely independent of the data plan= e." Why "largely"? It implies that is still partially (maybe small proporti= on) dependent on the data plane. "ACP MUST NOT be tied to a particular protocol." ACP does need support from= some specific protocol, GRASP, IPv6. I am sure you did not mean them. But = the description should be improved to be more precise. "The ACP MUST provide security". I am not sure the "MUST". In many scenario= s, for example, some layer has very strong layer 2 security mechanism, or n= etwork with physics isolation/protection. The connectivity is the vital fun= ctionality that ACP could provide, while security provided by ACP is redund= ant or not necessary. "The default mode of operation of the ACP is hop-by-hop." I guess you mean = "basic" or "fundamental" rather than "default". The multiple connectivity i= s made up by hop-by-hop connections. " ULA "Unique Local Address". The IPv6 equivalent to RFC1918 IPv4 addresse= s. ACP addresses are ULA."Please don't consider ULA as an equivalent to RF= C1918. We used to have relevant discussion in v6ops WG, and people had stro= ng consensus on ULAs !=3D RFC1918. (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-v6ops-ula-usage-considerations-02#section-3.1) The content of section 3.3 reads like the essential benefit rather than a s= pecific use case, especially comparing to Section 3.1 and 3.2. More proper = place for this may be Section 9 (Benefits). "ACP loopback interface" and "ACP virtual interface" refer to different thi= ngs as defined in the Terminology section. However, in the main text, somet= imes they are mixed together ((E.g. in section 5, Item 5 and 6). Either the= y should be used in a canonical way in this document, or other more disting= uished terminologies should be used to refer the two things. The terminology "ACP connect" same not proper. It would be more proper to c= all the connect/channel for non-ACP device joining the ACP through an ACP d= evice "ACP bridge"? In section 6, Initially, it must have a ... as well as an adjacency table."The word here = is misleading. The authors should mean the functionality of an adjacency ta= ble. But it reads like an adjacency table with already learned neighbor inf= ormation. Inadvert -> inadvertent The term "Autonomic Domain" first appears at section 6.1, it should be defi= ned in section 3. acp-address within ACP information should be optional. It may be the addres= s is generated by AN after getting the domain certificate. It is worthy to clarify that although the LDevID contains ACP-information, = it is not specific for ACP only; it is generic for other functions that req= uest node-level authentication. "To establish an ACP securely, an ACP device MUST have a globally unique do= main certificate (LDevID)"I think the requirement in this sentence is too s= trong in two perspective: why globally unique, secondly it is not necessary= to be a domain certificate that newly assigned in this domain. Furthermore= , this seems imply ACP depend on BRSKI as pre-step, which I don't think is = in authors original meaning. "The ACP network MUST have one or more nodes that support EST server throug= h which ACP nodes can renew their domain certificate." The work "MUST" is f= ar too strong here. "it should choose am FQDN" -> it should choose "an" FQDN "The format of the rfc822Name is choosen" -> The format of the rfc822Name i= s "chosen". There are another 4 instance of "choosen". "The loop-count MUST be sete to 255" -> The loop-count MUST be "set" to 255 "When it is time for domain certificate reneal" -> When it is time for doma= in certificate "renewal" "the primarily imiting factor for shorter certificate lifetimes", my guess = is "limiting" "the assigning CA has enough performance" -> the assigning CA has enough "p= erformance" "See Section 10.1 for further optimizationss" -> See Section 10.1 for furth= er "optimizations" The first sentence of section 6.3, "Because of the the considerations", th= e second "the"should be deleted "ACP discovery MUST NOT be enabled by default on any non-physical interface= s." This seems rule out the possibility of applying ACP with virtual device= s. My suggestion would be deleted the sentence since we ready have the foll= ow up sentence "ACP discovery MUST NOT run inside the ACP." Or not deleting= , we should at least soften it to be "SHOULD NOT". Section 6.5, "the next step after discoving" -> the next step after "discovering" "The roles of Bob abd Alice" -> The roles of Bob "and" Alice "It is not up to Alice to devide" -> It is not up to Alice to "divide" "interfaces are the ame devices" -> interfaces are the "same" devices Section 6.6, "certificate must be valid occording to"-> certificate must be valid "accor= ding" to Section 6.7, "the ACP secure channel protocol" -> the ACP secure channel "protocol" "ACP mechanisms they support" -> ACP mechanisms they "support" "ACP secure channel MUST imediately be terminated" -> ACP secure channel MU= ST "immediately" be terminated "Note that is is not standard behavior" -> Note that is not standard behavi= or Section 6.8, "Authentication is via the the domain" -> Authentication is via the domain Section 6.10, "65536 different virtualized adddresses" -> 65536 different virtualized "ad= dresses" Section 6.11, on-RPL-aware leafs (or "Internet") accoding to -> on-RPL-aware leafs (or "I= nternet") "according" to "the ACP will only accommodate" -> the ACP will only "accommodate" Routeable - > routable; at least two instances "The multi-access ACP virtual interace" -> The multi-access ACP virtual "in= terface" Thanks for your hand work and good contribution to the ANIMA group. Regards, Sheng From nobody Fri Oct 13 14:55:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F391321B6 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iUDL8OY6VVGX for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A07CB124239 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AF558C4AF for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:55:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id DE9E0B0CE82; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:55:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:55:44 +0200 From: tte+ietf@cs.fau.de To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171013215544.GB21680@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA: new version: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-data-plane-12 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 21:55:50 -0000 Dear ANIMA WG. I just uploaded subject draft. I think the draft is now code complete and i would like to ask my co-chair for WG last call. It is also terminology/spell checked. Most of the changes where derived from Shengs thorough review, pls. see those details from the separate mail i sent in reply of that review. Details about changes in changelog, quick summary: - removed claim from -10/11 to update RFC4291,RFC4193 based on MichaelR suggestion, lets see if IESG/IETF review will bring up the request to do so. - range of terminology improvements. Replaced "AN foobar" with "ACP foobar" because "AN foobar" was implying that the nodes would have to be (fully) autonomic), which is not true (wanted to specifically allow implementors to be able to implement ONLY ACP if they want to). - Device -> node, physical -> native (interface), because "physical interface" is not very intuitive for virtual ACP nodes so text now should be a lot better agnostic of physical vs. virtual ACP routers. - Fixes to section mentioning EST/RFC7030 to renew certificate after discussion with Max et.al. GRASP objective is now called "SRV.est" for this. See also complete IANA section for description why. - fixed explanation of loopback interfaces. - A few small fixups ended up being larger informational new text: - 10.2 diagnostics. From my operational experience i can guarantee that no ANI implementation will fly without a lot of this diagnostics. - 10.3 How to enable/disable ACP/ANI global/per-interface and why (including the suggestion how to avoid interfaces being shut down by operators to impact ACP). Likewise i have a hard time imagining good ACP implementations that do not take a lot of care of these aspects correctly. - 10.8 how ACP could be modified through future work. No too long, but docussed on what i have seen interest in. http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-11.txt&url2=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12.txt Cheers Toerless From nobody Fri Oct 13 15:08:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8261320CF for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:08:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0zJtg6gvdaik for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EF6C134220 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31DB200A3 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF9C80FC9 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: anima In-Reply-To: <23632.1507822859@obiwan.sandelman.ca> References: <23632.1507822859@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] some technical terminology considerations in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:08:20 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Michael Richardson wrote: > I don't know what to suggest. I have in mind: colours, flavours, baking terms. > This is indeed a bikeshed question, so I hope it will elicit a really long > thread :-) I asked a bunch of bakers and foodies and the like. I have received the following suggestions for the flavours of JRC->MASA voucher-request: [Artur] JRC->MASA no prior-signed: "Voucher" > b) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a pledge-signed > artifact [[AH] ] "Pledge affidavit (voucher)" > c) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a (previously-signed) MASA > artifact [[AH] ] "MASA affidavit (voucher)" To name the JRC->MASA voucher-request, assuming the pledge->JRC request is considered "raw". a) parbaked or parboiled. b) When dough sits to rise it is called "proofing" c) Blanch, cure.... d) Maybe a metamorphosis analogy instead? larva/pupa/adult etc. d) Brewing has lots of stages... malt, mash, etc, etc... e) Pottery usually gets bisque fired then glaze fired and "raku" for when it goes in a fire pit. f) Semifreddo g) Ethiopian cooking has a dish of raw minced beef called kitfo where the meat is warmed but not cooked. There is another version of it where it is partially cooked called lebleb. h) Also there is coddled, which means partially poached. You do this with eggs for Caesar salad dressing, for example. i) refried? j) pre-baked? k) You sear meat before slow cooking it -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnhOVAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXFkQgAgH/s6AYWP9Ri/t7MSBHpcSXhYXIJCVYRO/NZ3yjpxbHX6FYufmIOj7tJ 6n2VVShsMXM0KclJtqweCHKuEQyDrnyiA1nGYlb3Ez1saebzaNZB6qWC2PjmIenj PWXzwUrbq55CetUoWDhQO/N7dlN3i/FXDVU1i4T4tptdf2BlFmPnsM5NPHjGkxXq 5Db0mbdqhLd+PyC17B4CRMihvVZK7Br8ug91Clh7797RuKdfWnw0e0Taca6g/yFu XkULOJ/EDn3bEyzu5PmEyioFz5GS00Tyk1y1IR3QHxEIUGmR8nVLWb5b6xjT8eVM 0/T0w0AeyyJbW3H5bbHkJx5jdAVoQQ== =dQi4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Oct 14 07:10:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F011313301F for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 07:10:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gcGv04kJ1PvH for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 07:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3522D132705 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 07:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF84203BC; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C745B80D36; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:10:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brian E Carpenter cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <649b10ad-6a42-2622-a9b7-21ff53bda9af@gmail.com> References: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> <649b10ad-6a42-2622-a9b7-21ff53bda9af@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:10:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I will review this carefully soon, but I already noticed one nit. > The IANA Considerations needs to include registration of the two > GRASP objectives. There's a model for that at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05#section-8 > and the registry even exists: > https://www.iana.org/assignments/grasp-parameters/grasp-parameters.xhtml#objective-names Thanks for pointing this out! I'll add that in today. We also left our MIME-type registration in (empty)... it should have been removed. We will spin an -09 before the cut-off. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlniGrwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVMhQf/XOqR+tpBF05AogWfZDMvTbm7cGYrHKKY8PrNwclmyj4f8M+dCIGKMp+4 CTxkcYB7wGEerd+5XL6SctLZkR/8yo8E9zBDnv+Tmhj4C8Lv31kgKRPAZkbkSFaI yLprjDJRkbEn5iCapToAU5Vi5ubjSDRHenj9L0+OnKkdQ2ssrSEaQQiQ+a/n3OsO zBtfdKlm0M6dYU+aJ6ZNFRlZFQ8gY3xPnX+M2OstmX5Q+USjxBsVTsci+V+xqTk6 KGCRGpN/GOyK+E52iZF6qKJREVYta80PXxFf5YYiBHfawDyh2LGRQQlOL6znRmyp t2cYKoxGJYp7v4TnwWGGWAcOY9YFew== =dCqu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Oct 14 10:59:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA01132331 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EROSRmoqrXCk for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC7BF126E64 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA9258C4B6; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 19:59:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 4EDBEB0CE96; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 19:59:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 19:59:51 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima Message-ID: <20171014175951.GC21680@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <23632.1507822859@obiwan.sandelman.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23632.1507822859@obiwan.sandelman.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] some technical terminology considerations in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:59:58 -0000 If this is for deeply dechnical conversations then i am not sure how much it helps to come up with analogies into foodie land. Not that i would mind, but its yet another terminology to remember. Usually, we (technies) try to indulge into TLAification: VR = Voucher VRQ = Voucher Request NS = No prior signed PS = Pledge Signed MS = Masa Signed NS-VRQ, PS-VRQ, MS-VRQ ? In any case: think of names whose abbriations can be used on labels of ASCII art explaining the signaling flows ;-) Think of n Cheers Toerless On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40:59AM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Vouchers as issues by the MASA and passed on the to the pledge by the > Registrar (JRC) are immutable, and the term "voucher" is perfectly fine. > > Writing code and documenting test cases, I find that I am sometimes confused > by the different (signed) thing that the pledge sends to the JRC, and the thing the > JRC sends to the MASA. They are both voucher requests, and they are > syntactically similar, but they are semantically different. > > I mean I gotta given them different test names and store inputs and outputs > in semantically meaningful file names... > > I propose to include an adjective in front of voucher request for the two > different situations. This would be for deeply technical conversations among > those steeped in the art; Max has pointed out that voucher vs voucher-request > is already confusing for some so I don't want to make it worse. > > In addition in the JRC->MASA arc are three kinds of voucher requests which > are semantically different: > a) ones without any prior-signed-voucher-request > b) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a pledge-signed > artifact > c) ones with a prior-signed-voucher-request which is a (previously-signed) MASA > artifact > > > I don't know what to suggest. I have in mind: colours, flavours, baking terms. > This is indeed a bikeshed question, so I hope it will elicit a really long > thread :-) > > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ > From nobody Sun Oct 15 00:12:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2931321DE; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 00:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k_lV1nbIpN9r; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 00:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82C141320D9; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 00:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQQ88297; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 06:43:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:43:15 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 14:43:06 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "anima@ietf.org" CC: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Result//The second WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity (06 version) - Respond by September 27, 2017 Thread-Index: AdNFgB60mwnpcnqpQRmy/KODA2Kdng== Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 06:43:05 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF01195@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.210.172.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF01195NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.59E30A5D.001E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ce036a4804761f34be694307f6e3c980 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Result//The second WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity (06 version) - Respond by September 27, 2017 X-BeenThere: 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(No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D00AF133032 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 18:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-f50.google.com with SMTP id r129so15172488lff.8 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 18:16:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=9YkHWOJY20m0I/i+cRhPJAzAgZ5/rbNEFxa6eylINEs=; b=e8dgnVpV6D++NWWaiEmBWt1K/U1vzOROAbgpEdEqFheszM+Sgqjmlz3LFzaPEWF2K8 dozqagqrFKs4W/bbvIcEoZM2Czr69fUJ+V6HNT45MKLiSZVO7DEg5Vj1sOUQxWcm4t6u 2Rzx5pioSSvf0jouzo3jhSCh6tdj41ittq2mS+epluICLAHlvYrdsj1mwTAF6xrSfkNQ xUeBOmdcajsdxUHNVM/0G4oBHHWb0LwuKpI82Ng3R5jJkCK9ShN+rBJWmpxT4ZoNL6rj nzl9bB9TjBkWC/3W3XnCOiDTQxbxBAYBOGSdw5gPyDf4lzrkDcxxgaQPUPnkSmfBoNUi O+hQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVavpiXmsOrmWkjTzGPec2LgDmOk+wycLvUCBzq5k+eS9m1m4+x 8EWn9atIQ4b4wXXHQRY3tzyifushjDzkZXKHlQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+ScSgsB4mIzZKtzpGOX+Oned+IBL2bfStlBSRBrt5k48iPhDS73koGBqu2Ye31iY4uFP2157oLgkp3dK+sCFI8= X-Received: by 10.46.31.18 with SMTP id f18mr3014706ljf.181.1508116564859; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 18:16:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 01:15:53 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Michael H. Behringer" , "anima@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030439688020de9c055b9fc0c8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 01:16:09 -0000 --f4030439688020de9c055b9fc0c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael. I think the security section looks good, but I have some comments, to clarify some passages My comments: In Section 9: "... transit, inject and replay packets "on the wire". In an insider attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or can insert packets directly into the ACP." - I understand the difference between "on the wire" and "directly into the ACP", but I think this should be better explained. In Section 9.1: "...as well as mechanisms specific to an autonomic network (such as a secured MASA server)." - I believe "secured MASA server" can be replaced by "MASA service". "AN specific protocols and methods must also follow traditional security methods, in that all packets that can be sniffed or injected by an outside attacker are: o protected against modification. o authenticated. o protected against replay attacks. o encrypted." - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation". "Most AN messages run inside the cryptographically protected ACP. The not protected AN messages outside the ACP are limited to a simple discovery method, defined in Section 2.5.2 of [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]: The "Discovery Unsolicited Link-Local (DULL)" message, with detailed rules on its usage." - Since it is a important exception, I think the usage rules should be replicated here instead of just using a reference to the GRASP I-D. Cheers. J=C3=A9ferson Em qui, 12 de out de 2017 =C3=A0s 06:23, Michael H. Behringer < michael.h.behringer@gmail.com> escreveu: > As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed work. I > have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section. > > The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the > case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the > attack surface is huge. > > All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment! > > Right now only on github: > > https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-= anima-reference-model.txt > > Other than that: > - on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John. > - otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken > into account. > > Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a > new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-) > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > --f4030439688020de9c055b9fc0c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Michael.
I think the security section lo= oks good, but I have some comments, to clarify some passages
My c= omments:

In Section 9:
"...= transit, inject and replay packets "on the wire".=C2=A0 In an in= sider
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack, the attacker has access to an auto= nomic node, or can insert
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets directly into the = ACP."
- I understand the difference between "on the wir= e" and "directly into the ACP", but I think this should be b= etter explained.

In Section 9.1:
"...as well as mechanisms specific to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0an = autonomic network (such as a secured MASA server)."
- I beli= eve "secured MASA server" can be replaced by "MASA service&q= uot;.

=C2=A0"AN specific protocols and method= s must also follow traditional
=C2=A0 =C2=A0security methods,= in that all packets that can be sniffed or injected
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0by an outside attacker are:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2= =A0protected against modification.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o = =C2=A0authenticated.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0protecte= d against replay attacks.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0enc= rypted."=C2=A0
- I'd rather be consistent using "pr= otection on Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation&q= uot;.

=C2=A0 "Most AN messages run inside= the cryptographically protected ACP.=C2=A0 The
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= not protected AN messages outside the ACP are limited to a simple
=C2=A0 =C2=A0discovery method, defined in Section 2.5.2 of [I-D.ietf-anima= -grasp]:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The "Discovery Unsolicited Link-Local = (DULL)" message, with detailed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rules on its usa= ge."
- Since it is a important exception, I think the usage = rules should be replicated here instead of just using a reference to the GR= ASP I-D.

Cheers.
J=C3=A9ferson=

Em qui, 12 de out de 2017 =C3=A0s 06:23, Michael H. Behringer <= michael.= h.behringer@gmail.com> escreveu:
As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed work. = I
have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section.

The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the
case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the
attack surface is huge.

All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment!

Right now only on github:
ht= tps://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anim= a-reference-model.txt

Other than that:
- on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John.
- otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken
into account.

Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-)

Michael

_______________________________________________
Anima mailing list
Anima@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima
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TY1PR04MB0704; 6:pJGfuv2TuUbmP45m94aYZvrREyX5bhadSsuUpcGZCZODqvXnMPtoLQ76S7dr/1XqCsNKBESflnXHlxWYWKE4014qQU6vtCjN9hS+kprUhl/s5izsagaif6dD41pFJ1BOeZsnmIYEj86WEKIWBqO2KTlRnuIWQR/5RSxNSgA3l7ConjxHLUXv+D4CcPWHtt6xiEljhpiGGeWy1T/ImX0H06Ihf2ixXsRBCjtJKeypGRhNnmoXwG29c81phvwFTilN/GocyPencqWZYCNFMSmURHLG78Jjv4KCM0VDc5vsWmD4SEe7i2tQ49lrWh8ySO38Q12JYiAfm+C0gG4+crxWcQ==; 5:VQT6gKahTXXNYeca1DfqqPgxbVqgBwBfnFnedhNIXG9dAtLXCVaAZeZylWgMLUlEpYvt/jf2v3wWApwtegCTYU9tc4IGfYjIpeHcWAMl0glETjiIKXuLbOp7EwXDhpVrTorELmoHIRFEWhD4pKIN6yGb/Vphny7NbnU2FLZlS7I=; 24:caAGdido8B7bG5An+XMEj/eD211ofbRkyIqRj06hwdqXRripVInxgj04bRA5uXTTKY1dGtOQOn6rPdu2rbbSxEfFiAbThn8bvwu5T7hNbUc=; 7:59qxJmsE6C6U/1L+kjLBKp45ZsuGzM0QVDQXzQKEGmLgfxJzRfJV2heLS4RuiAeb78PFWn3dlDobGwJoI28dA+tmd/9l4dt332JzbvFateyHDdzhOKMar9jPgoYeHSiNMI6AfA/5qv1mS0pGHH63GB1tPiqsP/BU30Sop2IbMpue46JvGAg2rCFezCvn+azD9RU3uwKBkQFVnQN8jjJOoYk+byBhOTUfpKEcZN9Pvso= SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: apnic.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2017 00:55:25.8779 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 127d8d0d-7ccf-473d-ab09-6e44ad752ded X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: TY1PR04MB0704 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 00:55:36 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. = The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related = drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on = special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the = Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF = Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-name-version.txt=20 Reviewer: your-name=20 Review Date: date=20 IETF LC End Date: date-if-known=20 Intended Status: copy-from-I-D Summary:=20 I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication Comments: This document describes an "autonomic solution for IPv6 prefix management at the edge of large-scale ISP networks". The document contains a description of a mechanism to request and = receive an IPv6 prefix, which is just one part of an overall process of = address management in a network. The document could benefit from some considerations of the interplay between this address assignment = mechanism and the routing system used within the network. The document also does = not explicitly address issues of address prefix reuse, and the relative advantages and disadvantages between an address management mechanism = that attempts to define a long lived association between a device a = particular address prefix, and a dynamic pool management system that admits for = high levels of prefix reuse. The document also does not define the intended = scope=20 applicability - for example is this mechanism intended to operate = across network administrative boundaries? If not, how are such adminis = boundaries defined? This is intended for publication as an informational document, so = there is no requirement to meet strict standards of precision and clarity. That said, there are areas where the language is speculative and vague, and some assertions are clearly untested (and somewhat dubious in the way = in which they are stated). Comments on quality and readability. I don't believe that the document clearly achieves what it intended to achieve. The document describes a problem space, and then jumps immediately = into a way to define an ANIMA scheme that could be set up to perform a prefix assignment function. It would help in an informational document to = provide a bridge between problem and solution specifics, namely a design = overview of they overall approach being described in this document. =20 Other reviews have noted editorial nits - no point in repeating that = work here. =20 From nobody Mon Oct 16 20:52:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EE1132332; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpTPYwQq8oxL; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com (mail-pf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E30F3126BF3; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id n14so376792pfh.8; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2hTdjrHEMgoBJ9bjBlYaGwJ1FaSI9IEEC2QpOQwm8l4=; b=fZSuKyYfsRTyHqJyuoQDLyZn2CemZUevl4wha6cePSJrU1SiIPaW0DhfMAlNG9DOGM qFsHrubZ84jNyPwSgOi5kQ8G86LlTSbV5O9qrNB3xtTVwYAhQKDwCcH0DPsg2YFBDdGE T+Cog+HAxrM2Nj4N9sDyg8KuiS5BYCqJ9PS2CTefda0yBQWH8OwZfj9P09YJ7Vb6Bh0U w8A4hIcoGkM5qQ00W/H/bRK5WQNfhRJci4Kl10H8PeiWu7LKTm+WUwLHGBwua3zcL4X3 yZ4YxH1sQL75b8pepfKHw3kNc51Ko2Dajo76uLbD0jggk+hKnFkq3AsT7r0JGLF3pw2N 2jPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2hTdjrHEMgoBJ9bjBlYaGwJ1FaSI9IEEC2QpOQwm8l4=; b=Rc8Ufzn+nNmvU43hLlPaU5LvLWoFOz1JKGiWO2HGMqoupCuEZoMJ94C/UDPvveSYHC ERcjXVnlz6nDQlQXrwiYQ3LV4XZ7TBKJPKobikrHOqStowZERRamQsPvqdwuc4mcIGEK szMT+oMK4XRzIFa+YQTinV1qWLXYgjumSU0qcZMcULMQzLmVmFkYXoMah7XosMM+ALz/ JQ2z9h2ihJ6eJvhnxORohKFaE1wFIFqRhBHp4ZwIARiO17oj6vM7nVHf0a/j2pflNW2v Ia2zpOqxTiANOnSSexMKCu1FXCqBS3JhDiUfw0hrQ1PZtpqWNBtyylJcc/n8Byl9v5KY qavg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXf3WzBE4vizvNvh1bvWZjR1nkbDlD3JWRgDJ7eRhY9BDztDPLx Ncfr3iJGe0O9keIK+Khfd09uyg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QC7slKB/K7NNbLyUKOWBq9ys0Itwg27rW+W+9oFNdxki5fnSNyrbotJFZ23LsiM+pLUk5tQhw== X-Received: by 10.99.114.19 with SMTP id n19mr9775669pgc.356.1508212335153; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v186sm11801529pfb.176.2017.10.16.20.52.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:52:14 -0700 (PDT) To: Geoff Huston , rtg-ads@ietf.org Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <7EFC323E-9ECE-4543-8A54-88FBB69D2733@apnic.net> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <45e687cb-aced-2d40-e1b6-c62bb60512e9@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:52:12 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7EFC323E-9ECE-4543-8A54-88FBB69D2733@apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:52:19 -0000 Thanks Geoff. Some responses in line below. On 17/10/2017 13:55, Geoff Huston wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft= =2E The > Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related draf= ts as > they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on spec= ial > request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Rout= ing > ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see > =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir >=20 > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, i= t > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF L= ast > Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through > discussion or by updating the draft. >=20 > Document: draft-name-version.txt=20 > Reviewer: your-name=20 > Review Date: date=20 > IETF LC End Date: date-if-known=20 > Intended Status: copy-from-I-D >=20 > Summary:=20 >=20 > I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be= > resolved before publication >=20 > Comments: >=20 > This document describes an "autonomic solution for IPv6 prefix > management at the edge of large-scale ISP networks". >=20 > The document contains a description of a mechanism to request and rec= eive > an IPv6 prefix, which is just one part of an overall process of addre= ss > management in a network. The document could benefit from some > considerations of the interplay between this address assignment mecha= nism > and the routing system used within the network. The document also doe= s not > explicitly address issues of address prefix reuse, and the relative > advantages and disadvantages between an address management mechanism = that > attempts to define a long lived association between a device a partic= ular > address prefix, and a dynamic pool management system that admits for = high > levels of prefix reuse. The document also does not define the intende= d scope=20 > applicability - for example is this mechanism intended to operate acr= oss > network administrative boundaries? If not, how are such adminis bound= aries > defined? OK, fair enough. Although the scope of ANIMA in general is within a singl= e admin boundary, we probably need to restate it here. > This is intended for publication as an informational document, so the= re is > no requirement to meet strict standards of precision and clarity. Tha= t > said, there are areas where the language is speculative and vague, an= d > some assertions are clearly untested (and somewhat dubious in the way= in > which they are stated). There will be quite a few wording improvements following other reviews, so I hope that will take care of most of this issue. > Comments on quality and readability. >=20 > I don't believe that the document clearly achieves what it intended t= o > achieve. >=20 > The document describes a problem space, and then jumps immediately in= to a > way to define an ANIMA scheme that could be set up to perform a prefi= x > assignment function. It would help in an informational document to pr= ovide > a bridge between problem and solution specifics, namely a design over= view > of they overall approach being described in this document. I think we can do that in not too many words.=20 > Other reviews have noted editorial nits - no point in repeating that = work > here. Thanks Brian From nobody Tue Oct 17 12:12:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6462132D4E for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NClnXEvEH3BN for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 964581323F7 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68D020090 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA83E80D54 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:12:30 -0400 (EDT) To: anima@ietf.org References: From: Michael Richardson Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:12:30 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RvKgOKwkp76tc2JNSJxr8OeVnJtrGgGk2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 19:12:35 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --RvKgOKwkp76tc2JNSJxr8OeVnJtrGgGk2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="80OVHHMNVpnrDMsuKhSM4mC1U1JoFkvsM"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard References: In-Reply-To: --80OVHHMNVpnrDMsuKhSM4mC1U1JoFkvsM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see inline On 10/06/17 09:11, Esko Dijk wrote: > Below are my comments on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05. Overall, the goa= l > of these comments is to make BRSKI including voucher format as defined > in the draft optimally suited to constrained, embedded devices that > operate on low-bandwidth IPv6 networks. See also > draft-vanderstok-ace-coap-est for some more context on this work. Yes, but surely you are aware of two things: 1) constrained devices are not within ANIMA's charter. 2) we are trying to do exactly that in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6tisch-dtsecurity-zerotouch-j= oin/ with ace-coap-est defining the translation from HTTP->CoAP. > 1. The choice for JSON only (MUST) in the voucher format seems rather > restrictive. Current work (CoRE WG, ACE WG, other SDOs) focuses on If voucher-05 says that JSON is the only format, then there is an error. PKCS7 signed JSON was chosen as the reference format for vouchers. There are MUST's in section 6, but supporting PKCS7 is not intended to be normative. We do say: Unless otherwise signaled (outside of the voucher artifact), the signing structure is by default a PKCS#7 SignedData structure, as specified by Section 9.1 of [RFC2315], encoded using ASN.1 distinguished encoding rules (DER), as specified in ITU-T X.690. Perhaps you can suggest some text that would make it clearer that we are establishing the semantics of what a voucher is, and then giving syntax in what we believe is a way to express the syntax in a concrete format. This is to prove that the YANG model is implementable. > embedded devices that will support CBOR but not JSON. Shouldn=92t CBOR > encoding be added already in the present document, as it can be a quite= > straightforward mapping or straightforward derivation from the YANG > format spec? A CBOR encoding will be a bit more compact as e.g. the > three =93binary=94 fields listed in Section 6.1 of the draft will be in= CBOR > directly binary encoded, no base64 needed. >=20 > So if the voucher draft would also specify the CBOR equivalent of the > JSON structure it would be much better usable for the > constrained-devices context; and leave still open more ways to perform > the signing (PKCS#7 or others e.g. COSE, JWS, =85). In March/April (you will see this in notes and list discussion) we considered going to JWS, and even straight to CWT. We got push back from implementers who objected to what they see is still a very immature technology. > 2. A voucher format that could even be preferable over =93PKCS#7 signed= > CBOR data=94 is usage of COSE (RFC 8152) to sign the voucher data. Whe= n PKCS7 signed CBOR seems like a bad mix of new and old. CWT does everything that PKCS7/CMS provides us. > COSE signing is used the typical format for the signed data would be > CBOR and that links back to point 1. The current draft does leave open > the option of other signing methods (non-PKCS#7); however =85 doesn=92t= the > current emphasis on PKCS#7 kind of close the door to other formats sinc= e > people will expect everyone to just use what=92s in this document? Is i= t Maybe. The document is the minimal semantics that we need. It's important to realize that vouchers are artifacts passed by a manufacturer to a device which they created. The only technical reason to have a standard at all is because it became clear that we wanted the Registrar to be able to audit the process. The political/communal reason is that a set of standard voucher formats will promote reuse; but that could have been done with a popular open source library. > intended that for a new voucher signing format a whole new RFC has to b= e > created, extending the current anima-voucher draft? Including COSE > signing option in the current draft would be best, but it seems to be o= n > purpose omitted from the current draft (*). Yes, it was omitted on purpose because we don't think that we can get consensus within the constraints of ANIMA's charter. --80OVHHMNVpnrDMsuKhSM4mC1U1JoFkvsM-- --RvKgOKwkp76tc2JNSJxr8OeVnJtrGgGk2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnmVh4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWdjwgAsQqGCWOZusN3N8Ib1l+3B3slWGBvgivgZBaeiQKGjHGtGvJgERQDzudr sJsH8xIOdjK2tl/D1++hahrqSU2mcdfj6xYnsfMQwzua7GWT4NPhoB2xgQQWt9OC y+g4NYIOKZ9nE0F6MOgO+mXQipCv/E8zAIIMq+CFy09w/uh4tUwYqytA1op4YNnv pErqiEfu1HntRXs9UIlT+683d7NSCvOSb5wk8+WNyNNYDlD03oh/ANgFddN92dJ9 /OvU+Wkc1VsoS0IonT0uH7fbEp0cCP6Q9O8AwLQh5m7W9c/pVylb/jb8tOvQayY0 u6GaQsR0XqhCjvPZxYQOxP2Vb5ECcw== =RjF7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RvKgOKwkp76tc2JNSJxr8OeVnJtrGgGk2-- From nobody Tue Oct 17 18:36:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0F8126DD9; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:36:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150829060777.22558.4927363968776356295@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:36:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 01:36:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Autonomic IPv6 Edge Prefix Management in Large-scale Networks Authors : Sheng Jiang Zongpeng Du Brian Carpenter Qiong Sun Filename : draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2017-10-17 Abstract: This document defines two autonomic technical objectives for IPv6 prefix management at the edge of large-scale ISP networks, with an extension to support IPv4 prefixes. An important purpose of the document is to use it for validation of the design of various components of the autonomic networking infrastructure. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 17 18:57:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45970132397; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpWqDjrTx5j6; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E96151270AE; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v78so2951327pgb.5; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vOADUauVh+GhxtB8Bf/ivxQ4m9y/xWn2PLkahbwtlXQ=; b=NNR0Vrk3I0S22zOJyVPyWNCCAsGHd8o25VnJh0UsyU1txz3O5QSOwbuLbFl8jq6bDh hmuw2ht9QrU6Q0Spi6vQbSrHoZU9nbQ+ukdzJN/LW16skeJCbO61cPQRfpZb3qpt39Rf pCA0juJCtwQ6nFjXVYWckKLJp/vQ+D8PuLw3Y4cV8QFpX+M2D2uwmahOXKep7YxYchO4 uSE25jkYDnh+R9U7ElxHSfF08aaJvuK/q+RqOFHrfg87PSiWkL6r7oK8xbInzDgBrc8V hF+KJAO2avo5NEcPft6qIj/9InVWaQhPjhQq6jNf9/oY6qvmyGt8X5OuKF/sQtteMIKh 43+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vOADUauVh+GhxtB8Bf/ivxQ4m9y/xWn2PLkahbwtlXQ=; b=UXUsuKlQrqC6LtS9VshC+c3QgIq5AVYgoKSbUmusaLqqZVFtt6z4nBWdtUNHO6bA5C bcyyhxLHYc7Nyheb4M+0lTLcbl/CZ6/qhc3fKfFBIvk2tUjxEv9kZTRFP2ju/EFjp1lB 1CwDKWbycjr6S65hBCVp/79/tBzFz6XKXIRKsaffaOtKFsfU8XZVtBBknRSPKbla61YO F5t/XS5Ml+EGi4nJ0A+Bj0SPg0imawxgMzgD2pJAAEH2g8soVFZUoJmhjSCl+zizvjh7 9sMoOIS0wRIlCCsc+hjd58/1gIYhpn0HKs+8isaEB3I+acRrSns4Qvl8jlmZZ2fqc9wH GfcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUV+e9A5M3kxFGVKlZ2LdCCw/LEMsigcv+l/RGW+AKLtR8tTvlV L8LWqFVBehn2QoOs8BCHp+I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBR+LeXIzMU0eOk7Ak/Cj+T05XUkjpMdBnXU+pn44q6V1GQA1WirmocCm6PdQsXr/eMcSKefw== X-Received: by 10.98.36.135 with SMTP id k7mr13265711pfk.63.1508291874510; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h1sm17530006pgp.37.2017.10.17.18.57.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:57:53 -0700 (PDT) To: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <150829060777.22558.4927363968776356295@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <76a481fd-287f-f079-2e36-cc0fd089ea16@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:57:53 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150829060777.22558.4927363968776356295@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 01:57:57 -0000 Hi, This version is intended to respond to the various comments received during IETF Last Call. I have BCC'ed the reviewers FYI (further comments are welcome, of course). There were overlapping points in the reviews so it doesn't seem useful to respond individually. Basically all the changes are editorial improvements and clarifications of scope. Reminder: the demo implementation is documented at https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/pfxm3.pdf Regards Brian On 18/10/2017 14:36, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : Autonomic IPv6 Edge Prefix Management in Large-scale Networks > Authors : Sheng Jiang > Zongpeng Du > Brian Carpenter > Qiong Sun > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2017-10-17 > > Abstract: > This document defines two autonomic technical objectives for IPv6 > prefix management at the edge of large-scale ISP networks, with an > extension to support IPv4 prefixes. An important purpose of the > document is to use it for validation of the design of various > components of the autonomic networking infrastructure. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Tue Oct 17 20:19:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3067127005 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOyoki2HEgLK for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22b.google.com (mail-pg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E2B2126B71 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l24so3096242pgu.11 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:references:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vRYeX0xKThzCXu5lELOOS9V8nEIV7ABFSKqgEqaA0QA=; b=qJPKmSf3mQj0ZCeTBkA+9ivPYc+W1v+RvwpAemy1yKs94OS67psQuR04aSGhjOzDXz v+03oVAEmwBJ4o2sPUduqgZ5bXoPP6Jb0qFhe1MO8Wp0moQ6chme+En9iuaHBVJce6HT 1XQSPnsIGfzaBmbpGg+U8htUmOmVQHXnSKk2RcMjUSmiSph+yui77xBChpashYyKyh2w atLbWa5nLIubKT14CgtQutVYyUTCnyYhxRUIXt3L8998V+hwzJ+mxTCWmDgk6I9bi366 PEaiJNYriYUXp2cs53A+1EkaLHqGhSEhjZXUo1R/0AhLVl3an1JKI8FRANRKtjUKr0kJ 1GAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vRYeX0xKThzCXu5lELOOS9V8nEIV7ABFSKqgEqaA0QA=; b=RqHOOqJR8fDmyfrBKMPJHBzXRzd1Kosvs0E/y6kps5vu1IN9pAH9bqbZcsXgAGF05l ThOtPpA2+9PHBCq8E5JrkjhtbzcRgKB+ndAowS1Duj8DM0IMbX8ZQBTLKxMIPtmlnApr drZ5mOihQNJa3mp5xp5xL6WnARNfIumLgwYAoILcbYVaelaa+nechRJ3TowHtzfn4VSq j1a1ZHh8V9wmNbMad9SHNsBoIm7/ebQNqa1qAB7JGJVxgCQq1W5Y3CJAvwQpIThPgRTP UESbY/es422cy78ORHpl0JV+6HwFGtlxZKOeA+Kk7J6sQHdN7b4zl+spvGJ8b7icWN30 CVdA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXOpRbqK6pTJMkksGKx6Z/zoZOWYHqredgYRZxSQVELTd9nK8Zx 8PtKTJPU8zFSxnpbLDNb8iJLWg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBVSOkBpmfgy3dePOtQSyaVWpHXKM+DjUiI85tUFH1b0AtZDMD3GMKrtIhxHeSWCMByy/G/tg== X-Received: by 10.101.70.76 with SMTP id k12mr12614997pgr.19.1508296748951; Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 76sm21550354pfq.4.2017.10.17.20.19.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian E Carpenter To: Anima WG References: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <7fcffe21-d396-bad5-b311-d2879b14b0f1@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 16:19:09 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:19:13 -0000 Hi, Unfortunately this is still a little broken around both GRASP objectives, in a way that needs to be fixed: > 4.1.1. Proxy Grasp announcements > > A proxy uses the GRASP M_FLOOD mechanism to announce itself. The > pledge SHOULD listen for messages of these form. This announcement > can be within the same message as the ACP announcement detailed in > [I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane]. > > > proxy-objective = ["AN_Proxy", [ O_IPv6_LOCATOR, ipv6-address, > transport-proto, port-number ] ] That's not valid syntax for an objective. Also, in the Flood message you have the option of associating a locator directly with the flooded objective, as part of the basic message format. My suggestion: The objective is defined in fragmentary CDDL as: registrar-objective = ["AN_Proxy", objective-flags, loop-count, null] objective-flags = ; as in the GRASP specification loop-count = 1 ; restricted to link-local use The objective-flags field is set to indicate synchronization. The loop-count is set to 1 to limit the scope of flooding to the local link. The value field is set to a null value. In the GRASP Flood message, an IPv6 locator option is associated with the objective as described in Section 2.8.11 of [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]. The locator format is [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, ipv6-address, transport-proto, port-number] where > ipv6-address - the v6 LL of the proxy > transport-proto - 6, for TCP 17 for UDP > port-number - the TCP or UDP port number to find the proxy Then there are more problems with this: > 4.4. Proxy discovery of Registrar > > The Registrar SHOULD announce itself so that proxies can find it and > determine what kind of connections can be terminated. > > When the Registrar joins an Autonomic Control Plane > ([I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane]) it MUST respond to GRASP > ([I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]) M_NEG_SYN message. There is no such thing as M_NEG_SYN. Anyway this is a backwards way of describing things. I think you should start with something like: When the Registrar joins an Autonomic Control Plane [I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane] it MUST be ready to support the GRASP [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp] object "AN_registrar" defined below. This is an objective that supports only discovery; it does not support synchronization or negotiation. When a proxy sends a GRASP Discovery (M_DISCOVERY) message seeking this objective, the Registrar SHOULD respond with a GRASP Discovery Response (M_RESPONSE) message including relevant locators as described below. The objective is defined in fragmentary CDDL as: registrar-objective = ["AN_join_registrar", objective-flags, loop-count, null] objective-flags = ; as in the GRASP specification loop-count = ; as in the GRASP specification The objective-flags field is set to indicate discovery. The loop-count is set to a suitable value to limit the scope of discovery. A suggested default value is 6. The value field is set to a null value. > The registrar responds to discovery messages from the proxy (or GRASP > caches between them) as follows: (XXX changed from M_DISCOVERY) > > objective = ["AN_registrar", F_DISC, 255 ] Why 255? Do you expect networks to be that big? Discovery loops will be detected anyway, but I think a much more conservative value is appropriate. > discovery-message = [M_NEG_SYN, session-id, initiator, objective] Nope. M_DISCOVERY is needed. But anyway, what is the point of replicating bog-standard GRASP here? Possibly in an appendix, but not main text. > Figure 6: Registrar Discovery > > The response from the registrar (or cache) will be a M_RESPONSE with > the following parameters: > > response-message = [M_RESPONSE, session-id, initiator, ttl, > (+locator-option // divert-option), ?objective)] Here an example is more helpful than more cut-and-paste from GRASP. > initiator = ACP address of Registrar Wrong, another argument against redundancy. See https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-grasp-15#section-2.8.5 > locator1 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 6, 443] > locator2 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 17, 5683] > locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil] OK. This is fine in terms of GRASP syntax, although it's a slightly special case of implying semantics within the locators. The only problem is mine: my prototype code can't do this without enhancement. I'd suggest giving the example a bit more precisely, something like: An example M_RESPONSE packet, following the GRASP syntax, could be as follows: [M_RESPONSE, session-id, initiator, ttl, [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 6, 443], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 17, 5683], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, null]] Also, technically, using proto = 41 extends the formal GRASP syntax. We could let that slide, holding it in reserve for GRASP 2.0, or we could at least note that it's an extension. Regards Brian From nobody Wed Oct 18 03:23:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141521320C9 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ufU87SBZcFNV for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com (mail-wr0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1535C124207 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id y44so4443854wry.10 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:references:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=oo7TlnGZiYGiWPt0WJ7Td375qIZ91j29XS+DPTT1x2Y=; b=c7i0RQ4rq95A3VWVG6un0MtOmrJVA95gzsUV81VYoUETZvUpA5tqktdxURGMVGpboo GiUhyF29jnKbyIst43yhllRjMix522A4kP75e/WLdL2U9KODh1h2HTExgENYt8RVGzFN n7KH3MHzYZGQSoVPWo40goy5HV1Wod2u/6VN3t4Wk35lKSQ4nxfQBgg8Esm3lB1PH/ch DaO/CusCTXkqTtN3295N8B2t+j9QmZ91RcdysqjusjNPpVzreM4BRf/0CYydMTlrhmao 06cmhKsuTFJ4o8KXxmSTdsYKqa8qjVHindkj+5Mo6TIcxduJNiV/+Gb89cTUgfXIpLKn eIKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=oo7TlnGZiYGiWPt0WJ7Td375qIZ91j29XS+DPTT1x2Y=; b=BBXGQvN8lpkAeVdgUJ7JvgbKvM5uK1pD7vmgJjG7jq5hKkbXiPdHO9jdwVaqb7H555 /UYP4wODT0bHgKCKghoKSPvc76sePL6aw8QcdN4eDkchps8kl8g3l5Vs+TuRZz2kxE7S zQIZ1rSdLWIbve3eVQY5tk+7hZemzC1PdYlwpNZ9G68E2aRAB+TcoNIfPuBcIyq7ju1N ddUC8n0KL2K/GPMDDyjmyYfRzBWQND0mjZ2ooOc4PbymRnwMsl977W/r/dga73sdf4ty oJt/jgcsi7bqkqYM1udW7+L0rRNxRo9KLMcgA8paqV2Dl3qlaA66vkzrWRAccwdK3cb7 jBAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU2jOc/rzBOBsx9iB+uyq/y3IbrE3NuezKI2BaZEFK9tQRQDzOh yzZ74uqipsnYQRGCAo5oarG+soLW X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+S/RhAM7pPVIhRC6/kFkNyLRazdggKyAuG5R7vPbAS4hT2RBdrKAhcOzmj4qFtdNy58SnNSSA== X-Received: by 10.223.138.231 with SMTP id z36mr6620999wrz.154.1508322233426; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.103.128.17] ([173.38.220.36]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f10sm7797160wrg.20.2017.10.18.03.23.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:23:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= , "anima@ietf.org" References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:23:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:23:57 -0000 On 16/10/17 03:15, Jéferson Campos Nobre wrote: > Hi Michael. > I think the security section looks good, but I have some comments, to > clarify some passages > My comments: > > In Section 9: > "... transit, inject and replay packets "on the wire".  In an insider >    attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or can insert >    packets directly into the ACP." > - I understand the difference between "on the wire" and "directly into > the ACP", but I think this should be better explained. Somehow I was afraid someone would say this. :-(  It's not easy to explain, in simple terms... How does this sound: "In an outsider attack all network elements and protocols are securely managed and operating, and an outside attacker can sniff packets in transit, inject and replay packets. In an insider attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or can insert packets directly into the protected ACP." > In Section 9.1: > "...as well as mechanisms specific to >    an autonomic network (such as a secured MASA server)." > - I believe "secured MASA server" can be replaced by "MASA service". Done. >  "AN specific protocols and methods must also follow traditional >    security methods, in that all packets that can be sniffed or injected >    by an outside attacker are: > >    o  protected against modification. > >    o  authenticated. > >    o  protected against replay attacks. > >    o  encrypted." > - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confidentiality, > Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation". That's not the same :-)  You don't cover re-play attacks. >   "Most AN messages run inside the cryptographically protected ACP.  The >    not protected AN messages outside the ACP are limited to a simple >    discovery method, defined in Section 2.5.2 of [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]: >    The "Discovery Unsolicited Link-Local (DULL)" message, with detailed >    rules on its usage." > - Since it is a important exception, I think the usage rules should be > replicated here instead of just using a reference to the GRASP I-D. I respectfully disagree, this would add a lot of detail, and would make the section less readable. I think the reference is better here. Will push the changes onto the git repo in a minute. Michael > Cheers. > Jéferson > > Em qui, 12 de out de 2017 às 06:23, Michael H. Behringer > > > escreveu: > > As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed > work. I > have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section. > > The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the > case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the > attack surface is huge. > > All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment! > > Right now only on github: > https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model.txt > > Other than that: > - on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John. > - otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken > into account. > > Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a > new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-) > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Wed Oct 18 03:39:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2552D1331C1 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXrO6GbDg_rP for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 160EC1321B6 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id l24so4508835wre.1 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:references:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=n6qTL4GieFsB5pV/i/ahaSg3Q3r+0Mi/Z2GKg4PySAE=; b=PoWwMFeiCBDZenwY9ER6L4xwvPLM3r8AfOIS+CRR0t/lJSzb7B4dRWvLVrKKAROqRt iQaEmNGOPm4tacNX4ZFjBd63gRYlqCgVXtyzf8fEUDePn+zQePOOYLQ4ChN0Ejt1BMDG h/AyJHEGtK9cfC++JLwU1R/CHltBgTxCsFVPzOyTplQZr4xTTpONyBJoGqtTl0CmXYf3 EOctA3Gn0slwCN5XnLqjgXsWFOFUyln7rVrqj0xqDIx4eMik8O+ptcFWPmrH86wCMd+W yG53f1qWw2SiooiBr430ZK8OYLffabpoJ0aSB9vcv1fhNxRKkszYG19WDKw6YfYat2C7 YRzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=n6qTL4GieFsB5pV/i/ahaSg3Q3r+0Mi/Z2GKg4PySAE=; b=KpP15gmLPkw4KQWtCU4CvFMWUpWpAUKGZw5ZRS5tlWzi93yYzbBLtFEMTKydPtakrQ 9+9rSIdY/EVLfwlQLrn4tnuKOfEITdEJ2XL1ycNxAluVQrH9/fnA+DMBjeu5muChVpar M81TiiacwRsVDnQypVNkCQnE3d/NlqX1+vvWzFExrHrqpoTFF841UM3Q/RGePRXqyTev VistjL0Bst/Ms3h5f7QWbc7VSy2TRysm7oruZVrfsD0Dq3En8QL2X4dlCIi815cnf/Pc nY7yRdQ7/ZCgQDwm+PR29AXXJ12wfobtuh5vXeoI946e1VEsPG4qbUZQlJLZJnf1phG+ X5zw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaX+kOm9MLFMMeLtU9lOe439Nagugay1WzOz6ISnhc64nwB5yZNS wJG9+1Bz3gvE3JJobc4ynrDdzgBK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SX7mR8ob+3k0ASRLi6q6AsB+scCuD1nKVAoWUlTNhD3T0X/1DyMnOty3SMpekhLneTyBd4TQ== X-Received: by 10.223.144.227 with SMTP id i90mr5473309wri.190.1508323151474; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.103.128.17] ([173.38.220.36]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v80sm15089565wrc.49.2017.10.18.03.39.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Oct 2017 03:39:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= , "anima@ietf.org" References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25815b5a-d410-815e-c05f-55c9f5501b8f@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:39:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:39:15 -0000 I think I've incorporated all the comments I got so far, and the latest version on github addresses all open issues. Tomorrow I'm planning on pushing version -05. If you still have comments, I'd appreciate them in the next 24h (or a quick note that I should still expect comments). Again, goal is WGLC. Michael On 16/10/17 03:15, Jéferson Campos Nobre wrote: > Hi Michael. > I think the security section looks good, but I have some comments, to > clarify some passages > My comments: > > In Section 9: > "... transit, inject and replay packets "on the wire".  In an insider >    attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or can insert >    packets directly into the ACP." > - I understand the difference between "on the wire" and "directly into > the ACP", but I think this should be better explained. > > In Section 9.1: > "...as well as mechanisms specific to >    an autonomic network (such as a secured MASA server)." > - I believe "secured MASA server" can be replaced by "MASA service". > >  "AN specific protocols and methods must also follow traditional >    security methods, in that all packets that can be sniffed or injected >    by an outside attacker are: > >    o  protected against modification. > >    o  authenticated. > >    o  protected against replay attacks. > >    o  encrypted." > - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confidentiality, > Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation". > >   "Most AN messages run inside the cryptographically protected ACP.  The >    not protected AN messages outside the ACP are limited to a simple >    discovery method, defined in Section 2.5.2 of [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]: >    The "Discovery Unsolicited Link-Local (DULL)" message, with detailed >    rules on its usage." > - Since it is a important exception, I think the usage rules should be > replicated here instead of just using a reference to the GRASP I-D. > > Cheers. > Jéferson > > Em qui, 12 de out de 2017 às 06:23, Michael H. Behringer > > > escreveu: > > As mentioned before, the Security Considerations section needed > work. I > have now restructured and to a large extent re-written that section. > > The main focus is on the fact that while AN is auto-protecting, in the > case of a vulnerability, protocol design error, operational error, the > attack surface is huge. > > All, especially co-authors: Please read the new section and comment! > > Right now only on github: > https://github.com/mbehring/ANIMA-Reference-Model/blob/master/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model.txt > > Other than that: > - on sections 7.6 and 7.7 I'm waiting for feedback from John. > - otherwise, to my knowledge, all other input received has been taken > into account. > > Once 7.6, 7.7 and the security considerations are stable, I'll push a > new version. Co-authors: Comment now! :-) > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Wed Oct 18 06:02:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84FC1332CA for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 06:02:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E5AH34slSTZL for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 06:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0B6B12421A for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 06:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DXZ38833; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:01:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.49]) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:01:51 +0100 From: Artur Hecker To: "Michael H. Behringer" , =?utf-8?B?SsOpZmVyc29uIENhbXBvcyBOb2JyZQ==?= , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section Thread-Index: AQHTQzvT6hrB0iadoUG44laUUeL+kaLloWOAgAO9xICAADRFwA== Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:01:51 +0000 Message-ID: <8DA547FB1280754AAC43A3E56DCB7AD20AF08C75@lhreml501-mbx> References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.204.65.167] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.59E750C5.005F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6d4be214aea2669b873ebe1b422fba25 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:02:12 -0000 SGkNCg0KDQpQbGVhc2UgZmluZCBiZWxvdyBzb21lIHNob3J0IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgY29tbWVudHMs IGhvcGVmdWxseSBvbiB0aW1lIDotKSBNaWNoYWVsLCB0aGVzZSB0aGluZ3MgYXJlIGluZGVlZCBh IHBhaW4gdG8gZm9ybXVsYXRlIGNvcnJlY3RseSwgc28gcGxlYXNlIGZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBkaXNy ZWdhcmQsIGlmIGl0IGJlY29tZXMgdG9vIGJ1bGt5Lg0KDQoNCj4gU29tZWhvdyBJIHdhcyBhZnJh aWQgc29tZW9uZSB3b3VsZCBzYXkgdGhpcy4gOi0owqAgSXQncyBub3QgZWFzeSB0byBleHBsYWlu LCBpbiBzaW1wbGUgdGVybXMuLi4NCj4gDQo+IEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoaXMgc291bmQ6DQo+IA0KPiAi SW4gYW4gb3V0c2lkZXIgYXR0YWNrIGFsbCBuZXR3b3JrIGVsZW1lbnRzIGFuZCBwcm90b2NvbHMg YXJlIHNlY3VyZWx5IG1hbmFnZWQgYW5kIA0KPiBvcGVyYXRpbmcsIGFuZCBhbiBvdXRzaWRlIGF0 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5afe0b00-7697-4969-b663-5eab37d5f47e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=5afe0b00-7697-4969-b663-5eab37d5f47e; Ip=[13.80.158.138]; Helo=[EDGE-VM-001.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1P121MB0048 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:25:24 -0000 Michael, Thanks for your feedback. Indeed I understood constrained devices are not i= n ANIMA's scope, but at least I feel the usage of vouchers for this domain = should not be a-priori 'blocked'. Hence my CBOR comment. > If voucher-05 says that JSON is the only format, then there is an error. I indeed read Section 6 as stating that JSON is the only format: (possibly= a verb is missing in this sentence) The voucher signing structure that MUST contain JSON-encoded content conforming to the voucher-artifact YANG data schema of the YANG module specified in Section 6.3. Section 1 I understood in the same way, JSON=3DMUST and signing can differ: The voucher artifact is a JSON [RFC7159] document, conforming to a data model described by YANG [RFC7950], encoded using the rules defined in [RFC7159], and signed using (by default) a PKCS#7 structure [RFC2315]. It does not say "a (by default) JSON document" but "a JSON document". The a= bstract also states JSON. I could suggest some text, such that CBOR encoding is also allowed - this w= ill imply a few word changes in Abstract, Section 1 and Section 6 I think. regards Esko -----Original Message----- From: Anima [mailto:anima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 21:13 To: anima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (Voucher = Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard see inline On 10/06/17 09:11, Esko Dijk wrote: > Below are my comments on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05. Overall, the > goal of these comments is to make BRSKI including voucher format as > defined in the draft optimally suited to constrained, embedded devices > that operate on low-bandwidth IPv6 networks. See also > draft-vanderstok-ace-coap-est for some more context on this work. Yes, but surely you are aware of two things: 1) constrained devices are not within ANIMA's charter. 2) we are trying to do exactly that in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6tisch-dtsecurity-zerotouch-joi= n/ with ace-coap-est defining the translation from HTTP->CoAP. > 1. The choice for JSON only (MUST) in the voucher format seems rather > restrictive. Current work (CoRE WG, ACE WG, other SDOs) focuses on If voucher-05 says that JSON is the only format, then there is an error. PKCS7 signed JSON was chosen as the reference format for vouchers. There are MUST's in section 6, but supporting PKCS7 is not intended to be n= ormative. We do say: Unless otherwise signaled (outside of the voucher artifact), the signing structure is by default a PKCS#7 SignedData structure, as specified by Section 9.1 of [RFC2315], encoded using ASN.1 distinguished encoding rules (DER), as specified in ITU-T X.690. Perhaps you can suggest some text that would make it clearer that we are es= tablishing the semantics of what a voucher is, and then giving syntax in wh= at we believe is a way to express the syntax in a concrete format. This is to prove that the YANG model is implementable. > embedded devices that will support CBOR but not JSON. Shouldn't CBOR > encoding be added already in the present document, as it can be a > quite straightforward mapping or straightforward derivation from the > YANG format spec? A CBOR encoding will be a bit more compact as e.g. > the three "binary" fields listed in Section 6.1 of the draft will be > in CBOR directly binary encoded, no base64 needed. > > So if the voucher draft would also specify the CBOR equivalent of the > JSON structure it would be much better usable for the > constrained-devices context; and leave still open more ways to perform > the signing (PKCS#7 or others e.g. COSE, JWS, ...). In March/April (you will see this in notes and list discussion) we consider= ed going to JWS, and even straight to CWT. We got push back from implement= ers who objected to what they see is still a very immature technology. > 2. A voucher format that could even be preferable over "PKCS#7 signed > CBOR data" is usage of COSE (RFC 8152) to sign the voucher data. When PKCS7 signed CBOR seems like a bad mix of new and old. CWT does everything that PKCS7/CMS provides us. > COSE signing is used the typical format for the signed data would be > CBOR and that links back to point 1. The current draft does leave open > the option of other signing methods (non-PKCS#7); however ... doesn't > the current emphasis on PKCS#7 kind of close the door to other formats > since people will expect everyone to just use what's in this document? > Is it Maybe. The document is the minimal semantics that we need. It's important to realize that vouchers are artifacts passed by a manufactu= rer to a device which they created. The only technical reason to have a st= andard at all is because it became clear that we wanted the Registrar to be= able to audit the process. The political/communal reason is that a set of standard voucher formats wil= l promote reuse; but that could have been done with a popular open source l= ibrary. > intended that for a new voucher signing format a whole new RFC has to > be created, extending the current anima-voucher draft? Including COSE > signing option in the current draft would be best, but it seems to be > on purpose omitted from the current draft (*). Yes, it was omitted on purpose because we don't think that we can get conse= nsus within the constraints of ANIMA's charter. ________________________________ The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally = protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addr= essee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified th= at any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this email is str= ictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient= , please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the = original email. From nobody Wed Oct 18 08:20:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBDB1330AE for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 08:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.218 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.218 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KTel8yv0YL68 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 08:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-f54.google.com (mail-lf0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E130F132CE7 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-f54.google.com with SMTP id g70so6243484lfl.3 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Yv2KCbYpJkuVdxHL7QbbXRa4fxGwOsFilCAfDoV25s8=; b=nWiqLG6jdWN1ZDUSZrv4FPpP8pdl3Ju8x4WvF1ScWa4N5HPbDOtfLIJGKij1/ClMgu WyR1bGPUxGtmk8XcazbzSpz3+rWO8RRX3OI1blOHjiz++NI8ZUUqfxtgaihc2WbAH+Bo 4ShQWDLl1625iAs8SrC20/9kn2wO5/8GHHSyaJyw31NJft1lkdGuU6rJyGpfxnkeaw2q aAd712tNA7z1cMFMs2MjWo6t03hGIcBWv5cJA4lNKd7I9ELxv6G2d86H+DdNW+mwEeS+ Bd42pJjS0gULkCuO1QtD9pH+r87WdMQ8u6Jq1GwQqWe8xsG31krdqfl5ILO7UZ54F7qG i3nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVHNjNIpqfLur9ocnDM1TOXb6m5dnt0nr+232zOcOdl9VRLafZm ywiahb673i641pZCVR73dqFL3KpcwxIY/k0A+Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+T1b6+sBGGHfbk5ytdUkF+0cvuKqCTaokz9aPMrH2u6V7A6BijgLWUmgTUluNGmlqLSfhBt/ILl5qYW1LeSQV4= X-Received: by 10.25.158.198 with SMTP id h189mr5530375lfe.76.1508340044953; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 08:20:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> <8DA547FB1280754AAC43A3E56DCB7AD20AF08C75@lhreml501-mbx> In-Reply-To: <8DA547FB1280754AAC43A3E56DCB7AD20AF08C75@lhreml501-mbx> From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:20:34 +0000 Message-ID: To: Artur Hecker , "Michael H. Behringer" , "anima@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113db6ee947fa4055bd3c835" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:20:49 -0000 --001a113db6ee947fa4055bd3c835 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I respectfully disagree on C.I.A. and re-play, but I can live with the Michael's original text :) My changes are aimed at the style of the described list. Best. J=C3=A9ferson Em qua, 18 de out de 2017 =C3=A0s 11:01, Artur Hecker escreveu: > Hi > > > Please find below some short additional comments, hopefully on time :-) > Michael, these things are indeed a pain to formulate correctly, so please > feel free to disregard, if it becomes too bulky. > > > > Somehow I was afraid someone would say this. :-( It's not easy to > explain, in simple terms... > > > > How does this sound: > > > > "In an outsider attack all network elements and protocols are securely > managed and > > operating, and an outside attacker can sniff packets in transit, inject > and replay packets. > > In an insider attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or > can insert packets > > directly into the protected ACP." > > [[AH] ] Minor point: as an attack is a practical instantiation of > potential threats exploiting some vulnerabilities, I believe that what we > describe here is better called a "threat model". We can still call those > presumed actors "inside attacker" and "outside attacker" respectively, bo= th > being "threat agents", but I wouldn't talk about "inside attack". > (Rationale: a specific attack could be an arbitrary combination of all > these.) > > Besides, I would suggest addition of "destroy/suppress packets", to fully > cover MitM capabilities of an "on the wire" attacker. > > For the second phrase, I would add something like: "<...> access to an > autonomic node or any other means (e.g. remote code execution in the node > by exploiting ACP-independent vulnerabilities in the node platform) that > would allow the attacker to produce arbitrary payloads of the protected A= CP > channels". > > Finally, probably it would be good to categorize these "arbitrary > payloads": if the inside attackers only produce some twisted packets and > wrong syntax, we can discover them by sanity checks of ACP related > protocols. But for more complex scenarios, we would seem to need > behavioural node analysis or majority votes, etc., which imo still have t= oo > many false positives / negatives. I guess we cannot require TC/TPM with > remote attestation? Especially, because all this is somehow orthogonal to > ANIMA... > > > >> o protected against modification. > >> > >> o authenticated. > >> > >> o protected against replay attacks. > >> > >> o encrypted." > >> - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confidentiality, > >> Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation". > > > That's not the same :-) You don't cover re-play attacks. > > [[AH] ] I would agree with Michael here. C.I.A. refers to data protection= , > we talk about a protocol. I would even add MitM specifically in the list > above, as it very probably will be the first choice... (See KRACK). > > > Greetings > artur > > --001a113db6ee947fa4055bd3c835 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi.
I respectfully disagree on C.I.A. and re-pla= y, but I can live with the Michael's original=C2=A0text :) My changes a= re aimed at the style of the described list.
Best.
J=C3= =A9ferson

Em qua, 18 de = out de 2017 =C3=A0s 11:01, Artur Hecker <Artur.Hecker@huawei.com> escreveu:
Hi


Please find below some short additional comments, hopefully on time :-) Mic= hael, these things are indeed a pain to formulate correctly, so please feel= free to disregard, if it becomes too bulky.


> Somehow I was afraid someone would say this. :-(=C2=A0 It's not ea= sy to explain, in simple terms...
>
> How does this sound:
>
> "In an outsider attack all network elements and protocols are sec= urely managed and
> operating, and an outside attacker can sniff packets in transit, injec= t and replay packets.
> In an insider attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or= can insert packets
> directly into the protected ACP."

[[AH] ] Minor point: as an attack is a practical instantiation of potential= threats exploiting some vulnerabilities, I believe that what we describe h= ere is better called a "threat model". We can still call those pr= esumed actors "inside attacker" and "outside attacker" = respectively, both being "threat agents", but I wouldn't talk= about "inside attack". (Rationale: a specific attack could be an= arbitrary combination of all these.)

Besides, I would suggest addition of "destroy/suppress packets", = to fully cover MitM capabilities of an "on the wire" attacker.
For the second phrase, I would add something like: "<...> access= to an autonomic node or any other means (e.g. remote code execution in the= node by exploiting ACP-independent vulnerabilities in the node platform) t= hat would allow the attacker to produce arbitrary payloads of the protected= ACP channels".

Finally, probably it would be good to categorize these "arbitrary payl= oads": if the inside attackers only produce some twisted packets and w= rong syntax, we can discover them by sanity checks of ACP related protocols= . But for more complex scenarios, we would seem to need behavioural node an= alysis or majority votes, etc., which imo still have too many false positiv= es / negatives. I guess we cannot require TC/TPM with remote attestation? E= specially, because all this is somehow orthogonal to ANIMA...


>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0protected against modification.
>>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0authenticated.
>>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0protected against replay attacks.
>>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0encrypted."
>> - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confident= iality,
>> Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation".

> That's not the same :-)=C2=A0 You don't cover re-play attacks.=

[[AH] ] I would agree with Michael here. C.I.A. refers to data protection, = we talk about a protocol. I would even add MitM specifically in the list ab= ove, as it very probably will be the first choice... (See KRACK).


Greetings
artur

--001a113db6ee947fa4055bd3c835-- From nobody Wed Oct 18 12:16:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB69133038 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQU4024MEmu4 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20BC9132F2E for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id n14so4648784pfh.8 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iN2RVxPdg0TMody02Lr3VTC6VTo4r4FvIKiD5MAXTog=; b=ieB8a7+Y5N9AaVUYFgwgnC/EU0xrSwlx/VwEICiTrSjNUdavBlvsxb8zXchDtkTcOY IUD2C12PROjtreZBHdx7R8jIyjlCICupwvMewXBqZ9LOtkfqcBeyqwl2IkWvmgpnsBed CylFp5TT5EY3iQ0FPoIzEeRUovv19g/eHim7z5eRr2/CWBADGvgD8alv9ukXFXhHp245 UsTk+qRVsAzHtsfUrg1eR2S+zpNCdgn+SqQuBVAdY7hWzV5oeR9jyerBGuLAaS+BKMZs byEy3HKTRwWiSi5MzJdswjL2j1QV1ad2uWDycqy4lfk+/KymlwLEeALTnOn5Cqrd5sGe /sXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iN2RVxPdg0TMody02Lr3VTC6VTo4r4FvIKiD5MAXTog=; b=YTPedjEyLVbWnl10L/D1Z059C++zvB0yZlOQX5VYG8F/fk8+fgZAZf4kdCCVy2PlE9 cpyZGkJBC/z8iYCWUdVv5o+ltlYRUws5PFZ3OJx4rFuEZYh2I23mkis5R0g89WRvadDU KhzeFRT+JFjPAxVoNIu6q5oGLxtz5BiLM/B8uxQ9moxTzQFw+tagobR9sMp4aTcxkgLA OlUHxhqF6mh4Omv/E1DYEQWHqFiodWFU0evml47y65jc6N52OE1+j35VRClR2kFIm2yt S+RzDd9F/Oc6W/Nkh07LDuqKdgPnBhSTnXI0mBjv0abm7zS3xXGg0sOLhoIEiNhBxp+j 0jBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWNGZjo03j4nDOKFKkDnP+D4l95Av59kAvS4OEcLLKtp3fHZlSp Lob6BLoaYjvEW1e7CuA1Kjcwvw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAaPdRITw4dwxCe1OFGFybXbhWf9jPf1XnmfKi+6Y2GLP6WMegPrm47oZFRI38VzeloFIYxFA== X-Received: by 10.99.43.71 with SMTP id r68mr14885886pgr.348.1508354209331; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l66sm24345786pfl.17.2017.10.18.12.16.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:16:48 -0700 (PDT) To: "Michael H. Behringer" , =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= , "anima@ietf.org" References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <836610a1-93ee-eeaa-95fd-cbacefd6816b@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:16:51 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 19:16:51 -0000 On 18/10/2017 23:23, Michael H. Behringer wrote: > On 16/10/17 03:15, J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre wrote: =2E.. >> =C2=A0 "Most AN messages run inside the cryptographically protected AC= P.=C2=A0 The >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0not protected AN messages outside the ACP are limited to = a simple >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0discovery method, defined in Section 2.5.2 of [I-D.ietf-a= nima-grasp]: >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0The "Discovery Unsolicited Link-Local (DULL)" message, wi= th detailed >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0rules on its usage." >> - Since it is a important exception, I think the usage rules should be= =20 >> replicated here instead of just using a reference to the GRASP I-D. >=20 > I respectfully disagree, this would add a lot of detail, and would make= =20 > the section less readable. I think the reference is better here. I agree with Michael. We had to do a lot of work on this (and other security aspects) to get IESG approval of the GRASP draft, and I think it's a mistake to paraphrase or duplicate any of that text in another document. It could create new problems with the IESG. I'm generally happy with the way this section is developing. Brian From nobody Wed Oct 18 14:33:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD6A13292A for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DPCKoobqrk-O for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FE9713432C for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1D3200E0; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED48780D36; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:33:39 -0400 (EDT) To: anima@ietf.org, Russ Housley References: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Michael Richardson Message-ID: <45e359a4-ae32-94a7-389e-22cd45373044@sandelman.ca> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:33:39 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lEFPKcDBqAWUkon1SwIto2csQpuK76shH" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:33:43 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lEFPKcDBqAWUkon1SwIto2csQpuK76shH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="opIvdXF8KlvrQTXx8eH0aieEHdB5qhX7L"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org, Russ Housley Message-ID: <45e359a4-ae32-94a7-389e-22cd45373044@sandelman.ca> Subject: Re: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 References: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> --opIvdXF8KlvrQTXx8eH0aieEHdB5qhX7L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/03/17 12:57, Russ Housley wrote: > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review result: Not Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your > document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review Date: 2017-10-03 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-10-112 > IESG Telechat date: unknown >=20 > Summary: Not Ready >=20 > Major Concerns: >=20 > Please do not reference RFC 2315. The is a full Internet Standard that= > should be used instead. Please reference RFC 5652, which goes back to > PKCS#7 as follows: >=20 > PKCS#7 --> RFC 2315 --> RFC 2630 --> RFC 3369 --> RFC 3852 --> RFC 5652= I think that we have rough concensus among the authors that we should make this change, and some of the push back from developers has gone away. We are working for determine if we can get rid of all the push back. I am working on some changes to the text of section 6. > Minor Concerns: >=20 > I think it would be very helpful to include a diagram something like > this in Section 6. Perhaps all of the CMS discussion belongs in a > separate subsection. I did this to see if everything that is needed > was specified, and I learned that the eContentType was not defined. I agree with both your points. > EncapsulatedContentInfo { > eContentType !!! NOT SPECIFIED YET !!! Will any OID do from any arc? Can I just pick a value from my companies' PEN, or is are there some more traditional arc managed by IANA that we should look to? RFC5652 does not even have an IANA Considerations.... --opIvdXF8KlvrQTXx8eH0aieEHdB5qhX7L-- --lEFPKcDBqAWUkon1SwIto2csQpuK76shH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnnyLMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVQhQgApiN7yJhEshgpDe0NYIXerfLCsH21OwBVb4t42Q7Y0CH1PO0tyg4IT5ao oUzNNnGFfjNCIDbaa3pig2DngT+zucUfccqPjsmsnH852yn4LDNK4URuogEELW67 hDhEMxTJgOMKTEcLxkmzef8VwOzaFR09yCFVgSFHIibAOZvRAOuGtnkeEJtyAXFJ YIF2I85rdq5+icVMu9MRkCXcVb2xWqgxRclNxUmjdHTYwdV6XLjInWXePfUsUJSC jgOHcw+Vy1v/B9ZlUJbMDLQplgbCkpyQYjCeSGS5/rtYuEQ2XTP4rG3QT4QNkFbY RN/RnlP4NCaPqFFsjDRBohAZ9cOq4Q== =oag5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lEFPKcDBqAWUkon1SwIto2csQpuK76shH-- From nobody Wed Oct 18 14:51:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1B213292A for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:51:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Gi9ddN_mfXd for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0E71321C9 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901D0300577 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:51:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id IaHHnALtOf1w for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF17130022B; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <45e359a4-ae32-94a7-389e-22cd45373044@sandelman.ca> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:51:50 -0400 Cc: anima@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <94ECC356-1F69-4AC7-9A9C-55BB690D23C2@vigilsec.com> References: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> <45e359a4-ae32-94a7-389e-22cd45373044@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:51:54 -0000 >=20 >> EncapsulatedContentInfo { >> eContentType !!! NOT SPECIFIED YET !!! >=20 >=20 > Will any OID do from any arc? Can I just pick a value from my > companies' PEN, or is are there some more traditional arc managed by > IANA that we should look to? RFC5652 does not even have an IANA > Considerations.... For interoperability, it needs to be assigned in the RFC. The IANA = considerations came along later in RFC 7107; see section 3.4. Russ From nobody Wed Oct 18 21:22:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA3CD13295C; Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:22:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150838696664.18934.8052382653869360172@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:22:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity-07.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 04:22:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Using Autonomic Control Plane for Stable Connectivity of Network OAM Authors : Toerless Eckert Michael H. Behringer Filename : draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity-07.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2017-10-18 Abstract: OAM (Operations, Administration and Maintenance - as per BCP161, (RFC6291) processes for data networks are often subject to the problem of circular dependencies when relying on connectivity provided by the network to be managed for the OAM purposes. Provisioning while bringing up devices and networks tends to be more difficult to automate than service provisioning later on, changes in core network functions impacting reachability cannot be automated because of ongoing connectivity requirements for the OAM equipment itself, and widely used OAM protocols are not secure enough to be carried across the network without security concerns. This document describes how to integrate OAM processes with the autonomic control plane (ACP) in Autonomic Networks (AN) in order to provide stable and secure connectivity for those OAM processes. This connectivity is not subject to aforementioned circular dependencies. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-stable-connectivity-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 19 06:13:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA36B132D18 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:13:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1UXbNgLdnTJW for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D130B1241F3 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id k62so8281739wrc.9 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:13:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:references:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=9DSlbM5CuCiXuKg56NcFe8vqU0u9vv0N8/pBfrPDOp0=; b=o78x1VisjoCEqwopnv6AwWOLnKP8DBXFs3CriCOjCRXrhUPZ/gFNsGd9VUWPH+NFjv 4wS1npCBIqidI1XQ+pC4u10BRJf/asNJIfVY3chpoweYnVNc3EumtRp2u+8yRb0VyOHQ 097ViuCtKv2i6dXqxR1YQ5vi3pXYySWPN7X7CrVAT4ZTvuEyKkHXQdkBvVFjG/58gd4P 4lDoy8nNXKt8aB1JMb/FciMVHx9/0ZgqBOcyXZSDuHdWWwodCi7mVpVZmSaZJan3hbtV c0hF4wx40Zui/KNpa5kGxCFLmDDY7ZkTfLmfHWm+SKuOyUuq2n5Bd7zKU3/2naFYr3qb 7/HA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=9DSlbM5CuCiXuKg56NcFe8vqU0u9vv0N8/pBfrPDOp0=; b=TBxvSw++e5TOroFkd+vAW4V51ht5PKH5XrYoAXHtz3cg3mPbeHQOhAZ8yE3qV1/CpG J84lB07mU9azkXJny8/oWscyHwoBQBXgITcr+OcSFZ18LNphwAaiPRrURmwW+BjOYUt6 vHHKtwqZuZZnejwVWC3CV3N5pgNAfd26T3lf0oB84MCxpOm0wl1ZpU7Le2GjdgZ96yXj fAIexd8f/QD8/1U77+HHJqubN21WrKYJbe/hYgXzfsU7z/iRdNeHCxkLa5KRhO5fEnGi yklE3aS0zpB4OcW5KhARfWbpsZBZPiYlE+PgE7Opr1Md8e0BsSO+1+K/XsdtuFusdGYW y5BA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaV48I624PoORnx4uROUDm6bt32F7AzahHt06CRChM2wUro2YTHn KpTyYDHfT9k+qTeN0pt5FFjAd/0A X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Qn7B33UQ/GHtyGTwsbtMIgDttw//NIINmaxpYp5kOz7LossAAiOHF4BRKe6Rfsl9bc4Ocjvg== X-Received: by 10.223.197.69 with SMTP id s5mr1725788wrf.120.1508418780145; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.103.128.104] ([173.38.220.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e77sm2586159wmi.16.2017.10.19.06.12.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: Artur Hecker , =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= , "anima@ietf.org" References: <8497ddd1-f3a8-6e83-611a-c131abf6157e@gmail.com> <33645cc1-9e15-252c-201e-987b996c69dd@gmail.com> <8DA547FB1280754AAC43A3E56DCB7AD20AF08C75@lhreml501-mbx> Message-ID: <947338ea-13e1-514e-355a-bfc7f26a8892@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:12:59 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8DA547FB1280754AAC43A3E56DCB7AD20AF08C75@lhreml501-mbx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Reference draft: New Security Considerations Section X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:13:04 -0000 On 18/10/17 15:01, Artur Hecker wrote: > Hi > > > Please find below some short additional comments, hopefully on time :-) Michael, these things are indeed a pain to formulate correctly, so please feel free to disregard, if it becomes too bulky. Artur, thanks for the comments, I'm very happy to get feedback! :-) >> Somehow I was afraid someone would say this. :-(  It's not easy to explain, in simple terms... >> >> How does this sound: >> >> "In an outsider attack all network elements and protocols are securely managed and >> operating, and an outside attacker can sniff packets in transit, inject and replay packets. >> In an insider attack, the attacker has access to an autonomic node, or can insert packets >> directly into the protected ACP." > [[AH] ] Minor point: as an attack is a practical instantiation of potential threats exploiting some vulnerabilities, I believe that what we describe here is better called a "threat model". We can still call those presumed actors "inside attacker" and "outside attacker" respectively, both being "threat agents", but I wouldn't talk about "inside attack". (Rationale: a specific attack could be an arbitrary combination of all these.) Well, a threat model is more comprehensive than what we have right now, and would result in a bigger analysis than I think we want here. Maybe we should spin off another document on this some time. But I'm a bit hesitant in using this term in the current version. > Besides, I would suggest addition of "destroy/suppress packets", to fully cover MitM capabilities of an "on the wire" attacker. Good point. I'll use the term "drop packets", I think that's the generally used term. Added: "and that the AN protocols are robust against packet drops." > For the second phrase, I would add something like: "<...> access to an autonomic node or any other means (e.g. remote code execution in the node by exploiting ACP-independent vulnerabilities in the node platform) that would allow the attacker to produce arbitrary payloads of the protected ACP channels". Changed (with a few small edits). > Finally, probably it would be good to categorize these "arbitrary payloads": if the inside attackers only produce some twisted packets and wrong syntax, we can discover them by sanity checks of ACP related protocols. But for more complex scenarios, we would seem to need behavioural node analysis or majority votes, etc., which imo still have too many false positives / negatives. I guess we cannot require TC/TPM with remote attestation? Especially, because all this is somehow orthogonal to ANIMA... For now, I suggest we leave it as it is, essentially: "an insider can do anything". Again, a deeper analysis should go into a separate document, in my view. > >>>    o  protected against modification. >>> >>>    o  authenticated. >>> >>>    o  protected against replay attacks. >>> >>>    o  encrypted." >>> - I'd rather be consistent using "protection on Confidentiality, >>> Integrity, Availability, and Non-repudiation". >> That's not the same :-)  You don't cover re-play attacks. > [[AH] ] I would agree with Michael here. C.I.A. refers to data protection, we talk about a protocol. I would even add MitM specifically in the list above, as it very probably will be the first choice... (See KRACK). So now I added a bullet combining both of the comments received: "and that the AN protocols are robust against packet drops and man-in-the-middle attacks." These were all the comments received so far, and I tried to address them appropriately. I'll now update the github repo, and publish the new version. The chairs should decide whether we're good for a WGLC, I think that would be a good next step. Surely there will be more comments during that process. Thanks Artur for your comments! Michael > > > Greetings > artur > From nobody Thu Oct 19 06:23:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39DF81321A0; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:23:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150841942119.18838.13882556788437252799@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:23:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:23:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : A Reference Model for Autonomic Networking Authors : Michael H. Behringer Brian Carpenter Toerless Eckert Laurent Ciavaglia Peloso Pierre Bing Liu Jeferson Campos Nobre John Strassner Filename : draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2017-10-19 Abstract: This document describes a reference model for Autonomic Networking. The goal is to define how the various elements in an autonomic context work together, to describe their interfaces and relations. While the document is written as generally as possible, the initial solutions are limited to the chartered scope of the WG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 19 06:27:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E67134215 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8pouulhfGc1w for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2E9513420C for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id t69so16062845wmt.2 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:references:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=euJVOu9CRSLEP6PpxdZsGKOksOvCOFzuj9v/GZeJZ4I=; b=Lswl14MMZeyRgIs4cvpKojC+ReHoizTdl72OnFv0N91I6ms/I/7gVhEf5ymOMGwkMc KvS7VFKkRyT5+a65yaosC0jqXR/+wqLGSLCjxWvMF6C61043yQV+ZSf8lvcItoi4jjH7 Ovy/0Gz/TOIfT+wfQsVfk2+7E24R5xNvAHHU6FFjyqHvjordha9a4KDwcs7BDJlv1RpQ tTaYAHOyMPP83no2rANag1ztiYYNcTZ1IykWHKk3fJRBrPpyemWFbeQrfH3+MzrCjkG5 swdrEKKpV0GeWXHGxbpMFvby0HHO4WHBIYY5Xq82/HhidFJnuBwd3e9YxBL/PtUYLLdf rptw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:cc:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=euJVOu9CRSLEP6PpxdZsGKOksOvCOFzuj9v/GZeJZ4I=; b=rdEgbxi1DL1BZZ5K0DW2T6iFtC1ChMCz/gw+VPHvIO4vBPs8wl3iOOYP2Kq/xjCG6v PoTkQNjRboBa9BBk3rx6dj3mykXmNyDUtaK58vi43GVQeB0u16WbbMZJoxD+0jlq5ZuD NFWrT/QbmVBJj6N214Cb0p+jcgZF8+8LggPN4M4rmgngvncBCx1QKMmlRxDEBtm2Iumb 77c07MKwB/N0NXMH270oiybkxyie30jgTwRm/2HysbL7F0LJE5Lr2Yox7Lbs/i2UhlLu IkN2P/PpiTTRKmjAlkjJUgmV9D15NhjhPEn//fkR8UWEVP06DPNFuwc+vNcFjETCOK4h 0AMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXsPieSbU69CjAPT2ZvoSG4XWOYHUq3wKBC3LXM1QSYyNXINqfR ZcsHK5ZipLQzC0ZsAQb5uzTdZHYK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RHkiclIX4CMsBitWsyK+5rgiQamKFXspNEGnp3LgI/W7TRDT09fYb+z+RK5IvdyOYE2weYuA== X-Received: by 10.28.174.80 with SMTP id x77mr1812057wme.83.1508419665887; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.103.128.104] ([173.38.220.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 76sm1562309wmj.37.2017.10.19.06.27.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:27:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael H. Behringer" X-Google-Original-From: "Michael H. Behringer" To: "anima-chairs@tools.ietf.org" References: <150841942119.18838.13882556788437252799@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:27:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150841942119.18838.13882556788437252799@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:27:51 -0000 Chairs, Having incorporated the last comments, I believe this document is ready for WGLC. There is an outstanding question on John's sections, but I think we can resolve that at the same time. Michael On 19/10/17 15:23, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : A Reference Model for Autonomic Networking > Authors : Michael H. Behringer > Brian Carpenter > Toerless Eckert > Laurent Ciavaglia > Peloso Pierre > Bing Liu > Jeferson Campos Nobre > John Strassner > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05.txt > Pages : 29 > Date : 2017-10-19 > > Abstract: > This document describes a reference model for Autonomic Networking. > The goal is to define how the various elements in an autonomic > context work together, to describe their interfaces and relations. > While the document is written as generally as possible, the initial > solutions are limited to the chartered scope of the WG. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-reference-model-05 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Thu Oct 19 10:35:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C145134226 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IG18AhBemZyP for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1415E1329B5 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5920F200EF; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C669806A2; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:35:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Russ Housley cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <94ECC356-1F69-4AC7-9A9C-55BB690D23C2@vigilsec.com> References: <150704985762.30710.15389510349503177651@ietfa.amsl.com> <45e359a4-ae32-94a7-389e-22cd45373044@sandelman.ca> <94ECC356-1F69-4AC7-9A9C-55BB690D23C2@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:35:49 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Russ Housley wrote: >>> EncapsulatedContentInfo { eContentType !!! NOT SPECIFIED YET !!! >> >> >> Will any OID do from any arc? Can I just pick a value from my >> companies' PEN, or is are there some more traditional arc managed by >> IANA that we should look to? RFC5652 does not even have an IANA >> Considerations.... > For interoperability, it needs to be assigned in the RFC. The IANA > considerations came along later in RFC 7107; see section 3.4. Ah. You review comments also had a link to the right registry. I've written: 9.3. The SMI Security for S/MIME CMS Content Type Registry This document registers an OID in the "SMI Security for S/MIME CMS Content Type" registry (1.2.840.113549.1.9.16.1), with the value: Decimal Description References ------- -------------------------------------- ---------- TBD1 id-ct-animaJSONVoucher [ThisRFC] I think that we want to be specific about the format of the voucher. If there is some desire to have a CMS signed CBOR or CMS signed XML voucher, then I think a new eContentType should be added. In the BRSKI document, we have registered: Content-Type: application/pkcs7-mime; smime-type=voucher-request and Content-Type: application/pkcs7-mime; smime-type=voucher and now we are wondering if we should be specifying application/cms. === 7. IANA Considerations This document requests the following Parameter Values for the "smime- type" Parameters: o voucher-request o voucher -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlno4nIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWpiQf/eevXS4jlwy+UuJLip6QSgG3GSzqijjuutIkrEQhBblTZ/xAjdCVwxvN1 KsiFIrfSIhj/d60hE/akyjkL93rkn/6JfXG6xANpE/PaTNRxxwKFfgtiMkojo7KE KJ29MDq70uK6u8Wl00FGAy/oPqVwXlE5lYmNaoPhbmKrk8DPC1WkhwxnWydJbqi9 i34kAwba/jljMssndGT2NP92f4IBB95sYkvDENHmTnZdwjngE5hFHqIKL1HeNDZ5 IpzUvIE2NHtnQ/K0VOyP4/1KFnb3vPyzFFKbol02AUCRHP65bgsYgHn2bj3sRg0U EATmetWMIrkw7tSvUdbsl2ug2ivqSQ== =Kdlz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Oct 20 09:03:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: anima@ietf.org, terry.manderson@icann.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150854547067.20809.8876185536428516918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:24:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] anima - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:24:31 -0000 Dear Sheng Jiang, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. anima Session 1 (2:30:00) Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200 Room Name: Sophia size: 200 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Sheng Jiang Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6tisch nmrg 6lo 6man Second Priority: roll v6ops dhc homenet netconf Third Priority: cfrg saag intarea opsarea People who must be present: Toerless Eckert Sheng Jiang Terry Manderson Resources Requested: Special Requests: The WG prefer to have meeting on Tuesday/Wednesday if possible. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Oct 21 00:22:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685CA126BF3; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:22:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kwFCQ_lfK9VF; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6264F132697; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DYE35809; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 07:22:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:22:00 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:21:47 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: Xun Xiao , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore Thread-Index: AdNDg+5AjPE6nYUMTgCBiR56ZS1ffwGNpxcgACCNAkA= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 07:21:47 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF15EFC@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <67C6AE5A0CF6AD45A8571ED3F6E802E413757826@lhreml507-mbb> In-Reply-To: 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RU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OuWui+S9kztjb2xvcjpi bGFjayI+PG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4N Cg== --_000_5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF15EFCNKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Sat Oct 21 05:51:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D301309F4 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:51:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.353 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.353 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, REPTO_QUOTE_YAHOO=0.646, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DxrJ_2h6_Y7W for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic317-56.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic317-56.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.129.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2172F133044 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:51:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1508590302; bh=T6tLhklOmUHsgGwRHz+HeUtM9IhLABU5FeCh3bL20rM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=K0ffFETc/5V4NOIO4E7tl/K/OGNGV22c9YnmwF9UIpa/7lSBOCUaUhLX+A+6gCqNwKc7Iyixn8wR4b3gKoJG1zCaybHah2kF0lpZYUKSJFUOoO3Qh/tJTQ2Uj9tBN4UoPRpBGgKd41SLYmbx5Sqsb0WzkCFtxsA5ZIWPuF/RhH8LK1jrhGnAjyHif3aztoSnSQBetPeGrcLY4d1EJQ+kU+CoLvMcXfhGlBNlj1ML+yuR6OUAS7M5hw8TElk++7FeeIYhWowqrfFqt0jpDV0rc4zO5NyDLcTacnm8Nslru0E8vth5DHj1XWqM6D0WSTJlA71dFl4wey1n+ftD/eQoBA== X-YMail-OSG: RHcPVqAVM1mjkBqNRRWmbJ1EKhzplheM23Mx1UpQ2T979.R1LMV9zl89n35Beob iUVII7mTT33Rm8LSHLCk.9OJV8Dlaf17NlYrcphJNKg0392DiUU5T5hSJcKNhnCi866wfDacV4f2 Lnu8j_QOCcjCq0BwuRNnq9s29Jz.hbx4dM3NECpWXB1eeSOze9JesmjMl7cnJ_eh_NZHSfQwFzI5 yoRKFFFwZlrG39JmwqENeCD_lxD4Bf5_4n3ewA6oTW_GU8LJw2u60Z9TJteXWUA4g0NdNp.hJjMy RvZqvzLGntj2a6rl48TEZrhdmiUkRtlgNvGYDYOWpbcoYwwPRlao_N8cwTnV2v8dzmkA85zPdCUQ JfE.2LfRYs0DMyOuSAghnTHyMPHMa5_MpuMD7N244T9C18CMN4L7GlgFRii3yWq8SMTihlF7KKFA DxG8bb0YpQLrBW9eB3y1HTui7WCwVsuRq5YmqhN3vHf6mVMb0x0q8bXodkdshJV6hsL8ae71MCVu KiXwtvPJ6w3n8NRg. Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:51:42 +0000 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:47:40 +0000 (UTC) From: shah zahidur Reply-To: "shah_zahidur@yahoo.com" To: "agenda@ietf.org" , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "jiangsheng@huawei.com" Cc: "anima@ietf.org" , "terry.manderson@icann.org" Message-ID: <1997597498.1666085.1508590060907@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <150854547067.20809.8876185536428516918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150854547067.20809.8876185536428516918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1666084_126761828.1508590060905" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10801 YahooMailAndroidMobile YMobile/1.0 (com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail/5.16.3; Android/4.4.2; H50; H50; H50; H50; 4.59; 1280x720; ) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] anima - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:51:46 -0000 ------=_Part_1666084_126761828.1508590060905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I would like to attend this session. RegardsShah Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android=20 =20 On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:= Dear Sheng Jiang, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request.=20 anima Session 1 (2:30:00) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Room Name: Sophia size: 200 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------- =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Sheng Jiang Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s):=C2=A0 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid:=20 First Priority: 6tisch nmrg 6lo 6man Second Priority: roll v6ops dhc homenet netconf Third Priority: cfrg saag intarea opsarea People who must be present: =C2=A0 Toerless Eckert =C2=A0 Sheng Jiang =C2=A0 Terry Manderson Resources Requested: Special Requests: =C2=A0 The WG prefer to have meeting on Tuesday/Wednesday if possible. --------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Anima mailing list Anima@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima =20 ------=_Part_1666084_126761828.1508590060905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

I would like to attend this s= ession.

Regards
Shah


On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, IETF Secretariat
<agenda@ietf.org> wrote:
Dear Sheng Jiang,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by=
the original request.

anima Session 1 (2:30:00)
    Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200
    Room Name: Sophia size: 200
&= nbsp;   ---------------------------------------------
   


Request Information:


-------------------= --------------------------------------
Working Gr= oup Name: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Sheng Jiang

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Ses= sion(s):  2.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 80<= br>
Conflicts to Avoid:
F= irst Priority: 6tisch nmrg 6lo 6man
Second Prior= ity: roll v6ops dhc homenet netconf
Third Priori= ty: cfrg saag intarea opsarea


People who must be present:
  Toerless Eckert
  Shen= g Jiang
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  The WG prefer to have meeting on Tuesday/Wednesday if possible.=
------------------------------------------------= ---------

____________= ___________________________________
Anima mailing= list
<= /div> ------=_Part_1666084_126761828.1508590060905-- From nobody Sat Oct 21 05:56:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857E5133059 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:56:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.373 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.373 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, REPTO_QUOTE_YAHOO=0.646, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDI_bb57ES28 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic312-47.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic312-47.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.128.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44E73130FDA for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1508590585; bh=GmqMgSD/xQhjPXWGKJeMdVEeJ1R/IX1L58Y0YvkBy2Q=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=G+bMqDrTg8/JDfwCXTdvd0cVrUOK1N6ow865Q6aQbVLi0VBPK37uW7Va05oT3xJJy54i8u6zQkHYiRgdTUQclNGrNA3uNw7lIHcgBt1/etNJwvpw1KvI3H9+OzAsEYzwNTUIy/sVbA1H4iF6JZGOSSpqbxgY2VUveieZas/874MpoIRgGyxMBhwGSOE5Q5IkyGpJwHUClZVM62smCThieYQYFAeQBhlO49ftNraaXnP8gM4eMxvaAIHs9fdIFrUL8sVrFyYpMwJ3FCMGISuXfonvtQbZLHKCDRdTK9ELDMSLrR22M9urWfFNMaHBNNHNZ5/Ppi5ky7BVR/ar+GGpRg== X-YMail-OSG: Hy.pC_8VM1lpuCJKFXNEwflNuI4HZ9afui8NzB3HDdrJ4VzQnNFZLsxW4u6U.TI iWa_6qkX60_Z98S5Xw88cvBlmz0F7cXQBivswC07JQnCWZuG1PYTzHO2vBz4KxgI_PLY_OeCYoCi zuFwYz8ZA5mz7YODmizmGxsh5G9mmCDaup1_lyzHFE2Q3UwQSm2SlxZQ4SyhskfiarvYHugIuC39 BptVmf_rsTnVH5HQCZdl2RTc5ZnJdvwSPTYh4y6AcFKanyCC8rezjy7nhple9ExFQSK44o.eZ6Cl Yu00Q2yajVKB3qULJslEd3t8c88qbRwAuHemKg49a.E6_shHwmqmrh84.4ffUgf0N86G0ggRWoho yw7QPXvDi5QEUz8yaFFqu0EyDrmkNcHDQALgUQ3tpFDqkCv4pConMWe3UyLJfDoL3VDX9iiFPFQo Vj4RfpkNRztwLfnTaIxRGjuZomT3OzNGptOApCOU0Q.wKPj19F2WXuxhYRNVnXPOnHLW4aQitjKE zQzO3IlM_3ykNXjR2 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic312.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:56:25 +0000 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:52:23 +0000 (UTC) From: shah zahidur Reply-To: "shah_zahidur@yahoo.com" To: "agenda@ietf.org" , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "jiangsheng@huawei.com" Cc: "anima@ietf.org" , "terry.manderson@icann.org" Message-ID: <773344728.1678699.1508590343199@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <150854547067.20809.8876185536428516918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150854547067.20809.8876185536428516918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1678698_1048182301.1508590343196" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10801 YahooMailAndroidMobile YMobile/1.0 (com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail/5.16.3; Android/4.4.2; H50; H50; H50; H50; 4.59; 1280x720; ) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] anima - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:56:27 -0000 ------=_Part_1678698_1048182301.1508590343196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I would like to atten this session. RegardsShah Zahidur Rahman=C2=A0 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android=20 =20 On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, IETF Secretariat wrote:= Dear Sheng Jiang, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request.=20 anima Session 1 (2:30:00) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Room Name: Sophia size: 200 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------- =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Sheng Jiang Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s):=C2=A0 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid:=20 First Priority: 6tisch nmrg 6lo 6man Second Priority: roll v6ops dhc homenet netconf Third Priority: cfrg saag intarea opsarea People who must be present: =C2=A0 Toerless Eckert =C2=A0 Sheng Jiang =C2=A0 Terry Manderson Resources Requested: Special Requests: =C2=A0 The WG prefer to have meeting on Tuesday/Wednesday if possible. --------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Anima mailing list Anima@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima =20 ------=_Part_1678698_1048182301.1508590343196 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

I would like to atten this se= ssion.

=
Regards
Shah Zahidur Rahman 


On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, IETF Secretariat
<agenda@ietf.org> wrote:
Dear Sheng Jiang,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by=
the original request.

anima Session 1 (2:30:00)
    Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200
    Room Name: Sophia size: 200
&= nbsp;   ---------------------------------------------
   


Request Information:


-------------------= --------------------------------------
Working Gr= oup Name: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Sheng Jiang

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Ses= sion(s):  2.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 80<= br>
Conflicts to Avoid:
F= irst Priority: 6tisch nmrg 6lo 6man
Second Prior= ity: roll v6ops dhc homenet netconf
Third Priori= ty: cfrg saag intarea opsarea


People who must be present:
  Toerless Eckert
  Shen= g Jiang
  Terry Manderson

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  The WG prefer to have meeting on Tuesday/Wednesday if possible.=
------------------------------------------------= ---------

____________= ___________________________________
Anima mailing= list
<= /div> ------=_Part_1678698_1048182301.1508590343196-- From nobody Sun Oct 22 10:59:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631AC13A378 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cdy4rZfF_5Wg for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C256413A312 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0286520263; Sun, 22 Oct 2017 13:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404CC80FB3; Sun, 22 Oct 2017 13:58:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org cc: max pritikin X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] duplicate voucher requests in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 17:59:01 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Max, if a MASA receives a second (nth) voucher request with the same NONCE, for the same device and owner, can it return the same voucher? (assuming the voucher hasn't expired?) -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlns3GEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX5JAgAlUTrB6VmfQ/rPP+vLiAR8kytMp/psEXEAUPGtVaMdKZhg9Y3hiWZImpo EUZJUgUkmkByI5+l/J874JohccFpPFd6AJKsVPRZbCEYFD09DvneJoR37b4wg20H Beczr4zo1C067XhVTzCo75NmknDx30wk6QhX1PNodvOaZFJV9BwLMSByGjo3dr2P qEdvqtFccO1uy+A26yTiW61RDQFOtJFIcl1yMv2LUSM2+2tXRkyIZWYFsElqQjPr jvHWmtAEJoO6mV1ZueOLp4h9KU6ACDeNsRvmnuH86AXnW4CMy6HqI507dQmjWnlf hDhvY7mvtnuKITpOjpSc05ury9r3WA== =t410 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 04:32:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F3D13F3CD for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 04:32:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:18:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Kent Watsen cc: "anima\@ietf.org" , max pritikin In-Reply-To: References: <25398.1508695138@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] duplicate voucher requests in BRSKI X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:18:52 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kent Watsen wrote: > i don=E2=80=99t see why not, but wouldn=E2=80=99t the creation time b= e different? Yes, the creation time ought to be different, but I think it's okay if it's the same. If the voucher has no expiry time, then this can be done for as long as the nonce is the same. I think that if the expiry time is <6hr then probably a new voucher needs to be issued. The goal here is to mitigate against crypto-intensive DoS attacks, while still dealing with situations where a transfer may have aborted, or something bad happened to a registrar and it has to retry. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnt+kQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVtuQf9GDvW+J8XYmydIDKOtjnICM22yeaeSsNeMSqUkdWYVbxgIaRf4vZJKFCg FQK8bs44QBlyWy74f1xGDrlAgLxoHBisXRH2a8foxcabwb96O2OlNKaAHzPC9sNH 3RtpE6YSc67fvc2AzHNgt72lFxBtTKOaq5NEA5tM0G6tQm07uuw0pu2joQuCSFjl 4ly18Xj4pOMzIlA9/Z2X0CoJvwCDslmJkX2iEDoAVx14+VVpcjyK3+Hg8Fp23rct x12HOIhpVGBndXVKk1B3l/71VzV1evD9iTkGbOXsggnARG/zSiJ0QhLRSvERjLws DZL26BBMAUvZjKm71qCHOrNq3iIWZw== =DbBl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 07:43:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82276138F9C for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:43:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id La_RoS-yNjw6 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F12DF1389A0 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C96200C5 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0056680D54 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:43:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] returning Location: / 201 for auditlog X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:43:11 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Max, https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-bootstrap/pull/37 I'm proposing the following text such that /../requestauditlog is now a POST/201-Location, GET /cachable that is common and more RESTful. I've made it optional, which is to say that Registrars need to cope with either type of return. Most API users are used to this kind of thing, and it makes the response cacheable, with normal E-Tag and Expires: headers able to apply. I'm open to mandating it as that gets rid of a code path to test! + Rather than returning the audit log as a response to the POST (with a + return code 200), the MASA MAY instead return a 201 ("Created") + RESTful response ([RFC7231] section 7.1) containing a URL to the + prepared (and easily cachable) audit response. + + MASA servers that return URLs SHOULD take care to make the returned + URL unguessable. URLs containing a database number such as + https://example.com/auditlog/1234 or the EUI of the device such + https://example.com/auditlog/10-00-00-11-22-33, would be easily + enumerable by an attacker. It is recommended put to put some + meaningless randomly generated slug that indexes a database instead. + + A MASA that returns a code 200 MAY also include a Location: header + for future reference by the Registrar. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnt//wACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXpFwgAjFAOZFNPhSAvjswrQMA7jiqqFdaULHCs2DOTKKlbSWVdKYyAU6hkXJcb elCL2/EA383UeEmeU5sS2jZZn6Tt0hYODxLB7Q5HHHO41X9Z7Low7fLJeqZ8IHpj nf6yMi+9hmdRPrIHI0yWVG79LnU8rXUyC3sNvdPyQHLs+ph8P7hcaGOFO78aZ40t HUNaEATF7YdvhGrxUsl0tSlPmi9hXYafJjQp6jEgoEKVD4hVg/1Khq1neMC9FBZ/ OikC5/5vD/rb5zssUQMTYovZyX2I1w3xQxlMf3OBM79ObXnqRTOrkQtcgcFi88K7 QLtM7GGt1xSjKZ/bPk+sGToaIRCUkw== =xKtx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 23 09:44:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F21138105 for ; 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23 Oct 2017 16:44:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com (xch-aln-014.cisco.com [173.36.7.24]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9NGidjQ008220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:44:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) by XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com (173.36.7.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:44:38 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:44:38 -0500 From: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" To: Michael Richardson CC: Kent Watsen , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] duplicate voucher requests in BRSKI Thread-Index: AQHTS19xBzFBMYUU3Eeq2puPYLem8qLxomUAgAAuWACAACi/AA== Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:44:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <25398.1508695138@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <19518.1508768324@obiwan.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <19518.1508768324@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.99.106.5] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.216.38.10] ([130.216.38.10]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u77sm14438640pfd.168.2017.10.23.16.59.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:59:26 -0700 (PDT) To: Anima WG References: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> <7fcffe21-d396-bad5-b311-d2879b14b0f1@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <92d647b7-d70f-7078-f929-6cd2205b4a42@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:59:24 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7fcffe21-d396-bad5-b311-d2879b14b0f1@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 23:59:31 -0000 Just an update on this. 1) I missed a couple of inconsistencies below, noted in line. 2) I updated the GRASP prototype to support the previously missing features used below. I update my demo ASAs for the pledge, proxy and registrar roles. They work. I need to do quite a bit more testing before pushing the updated code to GitHub, but basically I think the GRASP aspect of BRSKI is good to go. On 18/10/2017 16:19, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Hi, > > Unfortunately this is still a little broken around both GRASP objectives, > in a way that needs to be fixed: > >> 4.1.1. Proxy Grasp announcements >> >> A proxy uses the GRASP M_FLOOD mechanism to announce itself. The >> pledge SHOULD listen for messages of these form. This announcement >> can be within the same message as the ACP announcement detailed in >> [I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane]. >> >> >> proxy-objective = ["AN_Proxy", [ O_IPv6_LOCATOR, ipv6-address, >> transport-proto, port-number ] ] > > That's not valid syntax for an objective. Also, in the Flood message you > have the option of associating a locator directly with the flooded > objective, as part of the basic message format. My suggestion: > > The objective is defined in fragmentary CDDL as: > > registrar-objective = ["AN_Proxy", objective-flags, loop-count, null] proxy-objective = ["AN_Proxy", objective-flags, loop-count, null] > > objective-flags = ; as in the GRASP specification > loop-count = 1 ; restricted to link-local use > > The objective-flags field is set to indicate synchronization. > > The loop-count is set to 1 to limit the scope of flooding > to the local link. > > The value field is set to a null value. > > In the GRASP Flood message, an IPv6 locator option is > associated with the objective as described in Section 2.8.11 > of [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]. The locator format is > [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, ipv6-address, transport-proto, port-number] > where >> ipv6-address - the v6 LL of the proxy >> transport-proto - 6, for TCP 17 for UDP >> port-number - the TCP or UDP port number to find the proxy > > Then there are more problems with this: > >> 4.4. Proxy discovery of Registrar >> >> The Registrar SHOULD announce itself so that proxies can find it and >> determine what kind of connections can be terminated. >> >> When the Registrar joins an Autonomic Control Plane >> ([I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane]) it MUST respond to GRASP >> ([I-D.ietf-anima-grasp]) M_NEG_SYN message. > > There is no such thing as M_NEG_SYN. Anyway this is a backwards > way of describing things. I think you should start with something > like: > > When the Registrar joins an Autonomic Control Plane > [I-D.ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane] it MUST be > ready to support the GRASP [I-D.ietf-anima-grasp] > object "AN_registrar" defined below. This is an > objective that supports only discovery; it does not > support synchronization or negotiation. When a proxy > sends a GRASP Discovery (M_DISCOVERY) message seeking > this objective, the Registrar SHOULD respond with a > GRASP Discovery Response (M_RESPONSE) message including > relevant locators as described below. > > The objective is defined in fragmentary CDDL as: > > registrar-objective = ["AN_join_registrar", objective-flags, > loop-count, null] registrar-objective = ["AN_registrar", objective-flags, loop-count, null] > > objective-flags = ; as in the GRASP specification > loop-count = ; as in the GRASP specification > > > The objective-flags field is set to indicate discovery. > > The loop-count is set to a suitable value to limit the scope of > discovery. A suggested default value is 6. > > The value field is set to a null value. > >> The registrar responds to discovery messages from the proxy (or GRASP >> caches between them) as follows: (XXX changed from M_DISCOVERY) >> >> objective = ["AN_registrar", F_DISC, 255 ] > > Why 255? Do you expect networks to be that big? Discovery > loops will be detected anyway, but I think a much more conservative > value is appropriate. > >> discovery-message = [M_NEG_SYN, session-id, initiator, objective] > > Nope. M_DISCOVERY is needed. But anyway, what is the point of > replicating bog-standard GRASP here? Possibly in an appendix, but not > main text. > >> Figure 6: Registrar Discovery >> >> The response from the registrar (or cache) will be a M_RESPONSE with >> the following parameters: >> >> response-message = [M_RESPONSE, session-id, initiator, ttl, >> (+locator-option // divert-option), ?objective)] > > Here an example is more helpful than more cut-and-paste from > GRASP. > >> initiator = ACP address of Registrar > > Wrong, another argument against redundancy. > See https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-grasp-15#section-2.8.5 > >> locator1 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 6, 443] >> locator2 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 17, 5683] >> locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil] > > OK. This is fine in terms of GRASP syntax, although it's > a slightly special case of implying semantics within the > locators. The only problem is mine: my prototype code can't > do this without enhancement. I'd suggest giving the example > a bit more precisely, something like: > > An example M_RESPONSE packet, following the GRASP syntax, > could be as follows: > > [M_RESPONSE, session-id, initiator, ttl, > [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 6, 443], > [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fd45:1345::6789, 17, 5683], > [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, null]] > > Also, technically, using proto = 41 extends the formal GRASP syntax. > We could let that slide, holding it in reserve for GRASP 2.0, or > we could at least note that it's an extension. Brian From nobody Mon Oct 23 18:06:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A03F139507 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qi0rt07EUFnf for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B14A138BE2 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRE84290; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:06:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:06:48 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.249]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:06:40 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "shah_zahidur@yahoo.com" CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] anima - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100 Thread-Index: AQHTSgMw2iJNlWvBNk2ZDZV7KeGIkqLtvL2AgAR3AHA= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:06:40 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B9281750117@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: 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i8sm652818pgq.67.2017.10.23.20.25.03 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Oct 2017 20:25:04 -0700 (PDT) To: anima@ietf.org References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:25:03 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:25:09 -0000 Here's my first comment on this draft. However, it is very long and I hope you can allow some extra delay. As far as the two GRASP objectives are concerned, both "AN_ACP" and "SRV.est" look mainly OK and I have made a demonstration implementation of both of them. For example, the ASA pretending to be an established ACP node says things like: Flooding AN_ACP 17 500 and SRV.est 6 83 and the ASA pretending to be a new ACP node trying to join says things like: Found 1 result(s) for SRV.est SRV.est with locator fe80::c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76 6 83 expiry 30693 Found 2 result(s) for AN_ACP AN_ACP with locator fe80::c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76 17 500 expiry 30693 AN_ACP with locator fe80::c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76 17 504 expiry 30753 I haven't uploaded this code to GitHub yet because it needs more testing. I do have a question about the value field of each of these objectives. They are both defined as "name of the (list of) of supported protocols" but the examples show a simple string. That needs to be more precise. Is it a string, a list of strings ["abc", "def"] or something else? And do the names need to be registered? That covers about 2 pages. I need a little more time for the other 104 pages. Regards Brian On 15/10/2017 21:59, Sheng Jiang wrote: > Hi all, > > This message starts the two-week ANIMA Working Group Last Call to advance draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12, An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP). This document's intended status is Standards Track. At present, there is one IPR file against this document, see below link. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ > > Please send your comments by October 28th, 2017. If you do not feel this document should advance, please state your reasons why. > > Sheng JIANG is the assigned document shepherd. > > Regards, > > Sheng (co-chair, Toerless who as a co-author stayed neutral on the content side) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Tue Oct 24 03:14:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2FD13F6F2 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:14:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 48hYvqj1rTec for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net [194.109.24.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70E6713F6ED for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:204]) by smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id 6wEHe13aZnIXb6wEHeeIuY; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:14:40 +0200 Received: from AMontpellier-654-1-102-56.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr ([90.0.5.56]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:14:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:14:37 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Michael Richardson Cc: Brian E Carpenter , anima@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <20398.1507990204@obiwan.sandelman.ca> References: <150791598017.23771.18187732712497738112@ietfa.amsl.com> <649b10ad-6a42-2622-a9b7-21ff53bda9af@gmail.com> <20398.1507990204@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Message-ID: <098a6e991fa4ab0bf4394c4818c232a0@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfCgrs+PZc9KJQsCEft7Xd4sBPKC+tVmLjy6bqw30+6aAJmRjIDc71SOt/NRKO1pOfhuyfsgXrzNQmTxjKSKjVcJU+Bz9moRkDBkzsCsCmGBTWVbdQIxq a39NDpIPaItC4ILde62cjCitoe2uLYfW5BPq7CvDKoa33tLOSrz24mPtTCpM9X+cLW62TP70/MwJGIb8iolDcvO7bSxXS+une9aHYo0Lyx0dBgnKlJ8PRJ5G 0vFNR84HEOHcDnhs/6rMPA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:14:45 -0000 Hi keyinfra authors, Glad to see that so much progress has been made since the last version. I had problems with understanding some pieces of text. See below. In the terminology section, the “Join proxy” is introduced. The term is almost never used but the term “circuit proxy” is used. However, in section 4 it is mentioned that join proxy can be a circuit proxy or an IP-in-IP proxy. Therefore, I think that circuit proxy should be replaced by Join proxy, at least in the figures and the accompanying text. In section 1.3, the text from “The bootstrapping process…. such techniques when defined” is confusing in my opinion. It makes the purpose of the draft ambiguous. I recommend removing that text and replacing it with shorter text, like: “Possible constrained devices are the Join Proxy and the Pledge. Draft vanderstok-ace-est-coaps specifies how TLS/HTTP is replaced by DTLS/CoAP. Draft Richardson-anima-state-router discusses different join proxy implementations”. The above text allows removal of last 2 paragraph of section 4 before section 4.1; and removal of section 4.2. First paragraph of section 5 is difficult to parse. What is configuration in this context? End of section 5.1, what is “security paranoia”? Section 5.2 Do the two media types refer to two different requests? Why and which ones? Section 5.4 Only one request media type? Why? Voucher signature consistency, why not refer to 6402 instead of 7030? Section 5.5 2nd paragraph "If the join operation is successful", s/join operation/voucher request/ Section 5.6, paragraph 4 “The client HTTP POSTs the following…” is the client the pledge? What is the following? End of section 5.6 what is Specification Required? Hope this helps, Peter From nobody Tue Oct 24 14:26:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD5C138467; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:26:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CAobuSryUlXu; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4828C13A292; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BEF200F1; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 17:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C7D81DB3; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 17:26:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tls@ietf.org cc: anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] sending full certificate chains in ClientCertificate X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:26:46 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain In ANIMA's BRSKI enrollment protocol we use TLS to communicate across realms. ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ > We are connecting the (prospective) device owner's realm (the Registrar) to the manufacturer's realm (the MASA). The MASA's certificate is either a webpki, or has been provided to the Registrar via some supplier agreement. In the other direction, we specify using a client certificate, and since are going cross-realm, we want to specify that the entire chain (including the trust anchor) be transmitted. We need the entire chain as we want to pin the device ownership while also permitting the Registrar's certificate to be rolled over time. In the browser space there has been pushback against including the trust anchors in the Server->Browser direction, including Google's Chrome browser complaining about unnecessary certificates, and TLS scanners. I understand that some of this is the result of some client libraries that could be confused (due to bugs) into validating a bogus chain if there was a self-signed certificate in the certificates sent from the server. What's unclear to me if there is any kind of specification that we would be violating if we state that we want the full chain in the Client's Certificate extension. Section 4.4.2 of draft-ietf-tls-tls13-21 says: a certificate that specifies a trust anchor MAY be omitted from the chain, provided that supported peers are known to possess any omitted certificates. and there is a note about versions prior to 1.3 that the ordering wasn't always respected, but that some implementations accepted it anyway. In our document we simply want to say that the trust anchor MUST be included (MUST NOT be omitted...) which as far as I can see, is permited by tls1.3. Is there something I'm missing that would prevent us from doing this? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnvsBIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXkkgf/auDKN2G1euhq/cy+QjNjoW/FntHRiqNsuFDQ0+/azJ9zAZN4bfsC5/TS TgXQMMfyPfQJw4Mixt1FVi9kgwQiGvnwVDncnpMGuVZ51IDSrzlqN9/qpKM/epPr ewwDf0qIdlyejD1eC8X2ukLhmcjRyMNsAUKROh9KvAKk3TKLHDCkcyfGJreJNIIa oGZb8KkkTC/7yRm6KIKA5KxIjAPn9k9TNEW/43e4BaUCmN9JvPq1DDPbUc4zTMwY MOj+k8tE+leL+lJ+qwsGhDYQY/aYHu7bVTUA65+xXcrcJ79qtvkyZyz5wH9AOJXx MtUlvnSntyeuGVnJ4hrSigMn9z1DTw== =zCW/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 24 19:35:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E840C13AAC7 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cyyyPO1UpZyQ for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F7E13942F for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id v9P2ZsOQ012644 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:35:54 -0400 To: anima@ietf.org References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal Message-ID: <7f959e2a-8ed5-1e79-71d4-8dd774e90b8e@concordia.ca> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:35:56 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2017-10-24 22:35:55 EDT Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 02:35:58 -0000 Hello, These are my technical comments on this draft, for the first 32 pages. Given the length of the document, I do not expect to be able to finish it by October 28, so I second Brian's request for additional time. Bill 1) The definition of "ANI" in Section 2 says that it includes ACP, BRSKI and GRASP. The statement of Requirements in Section 4 says: "ACP4: The ACP MUST be generic. ... It MUST NOT be tied to a particular application or transport protocol." These two statements are in conflict, because the ANI as defined in this document clearly depends on GRASP. 2) As a specification, Step 4 in Section 5 is terrible. Step 3 explicitly includes the "for-loop". Step 4 then shifts to the perspective of an individual peer relationship, and uses the singular in the first sentence. It then shifts again to the plural for the second sentence. Suggested text: "4. For each node in the candidate peer list, it then establishes a secure tunnel of the negotiated type. The resulting tunnels are then placed into the previously set up VRF. This creates an overlay network with hop-by-hop tunnels." 3) In Section 6.1.1, in the comment on "routing-subdomain", it says, <<"rsub" is optional and should only be used when its impacts are understood.>> Who must do the understanding? What is the test for "understanding"? Is this a statement that "rsub" should not be used until the WG has done more work, or until the reader has read this document 42 times, or ?? For a normative section of this document, this is remarkably ambiguous. 4) In Section 6.2.3, para 1, line 3, "must" -> "MUST" (I believe that this requirement should be normative.) 5) In Section 6.7.2, para 2, line 4, "and not permit" -> "and MUST NOT permit" (The implied dependence on the previous "MUST" should be made explicit.) 6) In Section 6.8.2, para 2, I was puzzled by the statement that the ACP could exist in the absence of any active ACP neighbors, since the ACP is only created with the help of a neighbor that is already a member of the domain. I then realized that domain membership (and its accompanying domain certificate) could be established while a neighbor was active, and then the neighbor could vanish. I suggest adding some text to make this sequence of events clear. Suggestion: "It is created when the node has a domain certificate, and continues to exist even if all of its neighbors cease operation." On 15/10/2017 4:59 AM, Sheng Jiang wrote: > Hi all, > >   > > This message starts the two-week ANIMA Working Group Last Call to > advance draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12, An Autonomic > Control Plane (ACP). This document's intended status is Standards Track. > At present, there is one IPR file against this document, see below link. > >   > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ > >   > > Please send your comments by October 28th, 2017. If you do not feel > this  document should advance, please state your reasons why. > >   > > Sheng JIANG is the assigned document shepherd. > >   > > Regards, > >   > > Sheng (co-chair, Toerless who as a co-author stayed neutral on the > content side) > >   > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From nobody Tue Oct 24 20:21:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4AA13AF75 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FHxBYjyU9DSf for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0A5B13A092 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j3so16212053pga.1 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:organization:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cLMm4GHB8XR87dxDD2jV9CWr13lhvgc2jbRyXt3spe0=; b=Hu8ltpAOacOloknljhUAr+FUBlsil1LFfb1PGm/Z0y3LG7fXBm98dV4D+bzXqb7m+1 Q1FfiMz1BGHwNKKcGodF9tl9PpAmK3Vnj2KYos72vLzQ2WhSIi9nR4GrtyzY/iqOOIZL keoDWJ2CKtix1EO/2hTGiJAanWH+ai9r9GQ5Qui437E0fNTRtV52pbETxIz48gPYNv13 +361zg2yqIbBeX2qb2+7kXuTuUtCcpe6vE6DJKCHQ0NU4ObKSCMY9jITtae6xKB1ZbHp 0axygo3GfBOJQOXFGsUND563rDVAo+XGPcNn+4hygZzt0sQHhyHCEtjdyG25kB66kEOV t/2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:organization:subject:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cLMm4GHB8XR87dxDD2jV9CWr13lhvgc2jbRyXt3spe0=; b=hnKS5DnVCtwPCQbddIhYEPnNm6iK5RZWvqjIJVJRPbvUj8/Wp4j6BA9jyMPCGcKZxl xOlYualinYzZIEMlqx4OoHTBoH0ksF6rtfzv+yraADJ1HHGVc3/4dELolPSiHlFKlqd+ Lzeohj7n/tbQnd8iOm93Y6PL5UHCXzbFoIiygaUQ55qAdj8bRmJhEhg3cUUxu5bf+Dkd oVSrEeH8CXBBOdfs/44lo4aBZUTgbuQBlGHwTyYSOzPzmlkqE9xqV5RHvjrbQS1Xe7+Q jTHKPjSO2H/EfW5j8uFNmkiBjYJBOEbD2NG4m6sv6K/4hLVDoKj/2v6IgQK2e7HSZAxX s3YA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU7WOyqr5vuQakvOXiqc4/asfALLjM37A2XID/yAP4gjbQpy6aD vWUdxm5MzCM/7JMGXFQk3+zdYQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+QX+/BdF0+ZOCD9Oqh81ASlg1TYdzLDT6p3/HCDLAnRCWlky4LjWZyNzT1urSiswpLvTPAuKA== X-Received: by 10.84.131.111 with SMTP id 102mr632371pld.178.1508901693749; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2sm2172515pgu.86.2017.10.24.20.21.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:21:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:21:34 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Latest GRASP code X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 03:21:39 -0000 Hi, I summoned up my courage and pushed my latest GRASP code to https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy It's tested as thoroughly as I can do on my small setup; we wont't be at the Hackathon this time, but I'd be happy to sit down in Singapore with anybody who has Python3 installed to see if we can make it work between two or more machines. FYI, in the repository you can find: pfxm3.py which demonstrates draft-ietf-anima-prefix-management Reggie.py, Procksy.py and Pledji.py which demonstrate GRASP usage for BRSKI ACPcontainer.py and ACPnewby.py which demonstrate GRASP usage for the ACP Regards Brian From nobody Wed Oct 25 08:59:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F0C13F411; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rsz87R_oNLKO; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C687A138F21; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRI01298; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:59:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml507-mbb.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.48]) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:59:03 +0100 From: Xun Xiao To: "anima@ietf.org" CC: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: A potential work item: Event service in autonomic networking RE: Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore Thread-Index: AdNNqf2rp7iQWwb1Q9GdwmzpaTSWzQ== Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:59:02 +0000 Message-ID: <67C6AE5A0CF6AD45A8571ED3F6E802E413757C65@lhreml507-mbb> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.99.225] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_67C6AE5A0CF6AD45A8571ED3F6E802E413757C65lhreml507mbb_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.59F0B4C8.0204, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2f28372c8993475698d0d3a30d03e522 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] A potential work item: Event service in autonomic networking RE: Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:59:13 -0000 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K9Be9YA77nAG; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6F2213F44B; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9301320243; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0C380CFA; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:08:06 -0400 (EDT) To: anima@ietf.org References: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: jclarke@cisco.com, ops-dir@ietf.org From: Michael Richardson Message-ID: <716e2d10-4854-f54b-d843-83acd0a2b187@sandelman.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:08:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lAKK5WWen6dP4AmD640bJl1pbHEjHVdpE" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:08:10 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lAKK5WWen6dP4AmD640bJl1pbHEjHVdpE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="LbjU7AFd9BIrsnvIWqEAHRB205QDrnjqS"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org Cc: jclarke@cisco.com, ops-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: <716e2d10-4854-f54b-d843-83acd0a2b187@sandelman.ca> Subject: Re: [Anima] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 References: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> --LbjU7AFd9BIrsnvIWqEAHRB205QDrnjqS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, Max, Kent and I worked through your comments, and this will result in a version -06 shortly. (06 will also include changes to CMS) On 10/04/17 13:39, Joe Clarke wrote: > In terms of revocation tests, it might be worth mentioning (from an ope= rator > perspective) that doing this may require broader internet connectivity = than a > bootstrapping device may typically have. Opening up that connectivity = may be > problematic from a security standpoint. There might, therefore, be som= e > requirements or recommendations put on the bootstrapping services to ma= ke sure > a device is both protected and can verify the validity of a cert. In general, the need for connectivity to check revocation is why we prefer short-lived vouchers. >=20 >From a terminology standpoint, the use of the word "pledge" seems odd. = The use > of this word may not translate as clearly outside of the US. Why not s= omething > like candidate? That's an interesting suggestion. It has a slightly different connotation and implies some kind of contest. We picked pledge based upon the traditions of fraternities, with inspiration from movies like Animal House. Dictionary definitions of Pledge reinforce our usage. > Below are my section-by-section reviews: >=20 > Section 1: >=20 > There is a reference to a "second category" of vouchers, but this is no= t > referenced anywhere else. I'm not sure what the "categories" of vouche= rs are.=20 > More explanation (or rephrasing) is required here. We have clarified the "second category". Also removed the word ephemeral in the intro as being confusing here. The categories are essentially: "nonce" (freshness by being online, and containing data from the pledge), and "time-based" (freshness by having a useful real-time clock and paying attention to the expires-on attribute). So we changed that paragraph to: The lifetimes of vouchers may vary. In some bootstrapping protocols the vouchers may include a nonce restricting them to a single use, whereas in others the vouchers may have an indicated lifetime. In order to support long lifetimes this document recommends using short lifetimes with programatic renewal, see Section 7.1. > Section 6.1: >=20 > Is this needed? Can you simply refer to draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-di= agrams? We ripped out section 4, and referenced the document informatively, and hope that it will get published. --LbjU7AFd9BIrsnvIWqEAHRB205QDrnjqS-- --lAKK5WWen6dP4AmD640bJl1pbHEjHVdpE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnw4RYACgkQgItw+93Q 3WX/HQf/VlHjIw4elGSxDIsECxSiNQe1OtZawHWdANv4rEPARhzMQB403+j6nl6/ ceL0GVnRkuV7viIJ7BNRCippIR9x1oHxQ9f9LP6x6Tl4QSxYOWu0R1Dnf2S98EKI lHKv6uIkIiKB8wloaO12rhq+dO7mWfrJTsz1P7EG7Cupsq1BC30/ETpCOhW8heff 16aWA27ugYQILwjl1PVMNgPpyyMyityam6YUT7iSHb94leIjoPHHG+r8Fion34kj MgOvpnnIGPOFJyOH+jHEscsdx5jZ/NnRXWR9efhw29BQ1+gEa1DMlKqfiqIXGxiz qNI2VF8OhRWBkmm05V8JLNJdw2l40Q== =2PdO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lAKK5WWen6dP4AmD640bJl1pbHEjHVdpE-- From nobody Wed Oct 25 12:18:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031AC13F455; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:18:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150895908497.4882.7343711159905354407@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:18:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:18:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Voucher Profile for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Kent Watsen Michael C. Richardson Max Pritikin Toerless Eckert Filename : draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-10-25 Abstract: This document defines a strategy to securely assign a pledge to an owner, using an artifact signed, directly or indirectly, by the pledge's manufacturer. This artifact is known as a "voucher". This document defines one artifact format to be a YANG-defined JSON document that has been signed using a CMS structure. Other YANG- derived formats are possible. The voucher artifact is normally generated by the pledge's manufacturer or delegate (i.e. the Manufacturer Authorized Signing Authority). This document only defines the voucher artifact, leaving it to other documents to describe specialized protocols for accessing it. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-voucher/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 25 15:06:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C39313F488; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pFh_SMKicY7h; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97A4913F486; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF93258C54C; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:06:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id C7FBCB0CFAB; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:06:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 00:06:12 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Sheng Jiang Cc: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20171025220612.GA22069@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CEF49DF@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <67C6AE5A0CF6AD45A8571ED3F6E802E413757826@lhreml507-mbb> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF15EFC@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF15EFC@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Call for agenda ANIMA @ IETF 100, Singapore X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:06:20 -0000 Hi Sheng 3 agenda items from my side: 1. Update for ACP draft (there was a lot of work done through the reviews and moving it to IETF review, so i could summarize that work, but if we run out of time, we can also do that only on the list). 2. DNS-SD compatible service discovery over GRASP. Draft will be posted before deadline. This work came out of the ACP/BRSKI use of GRASP and is meant to generalize it, also planning to use it as an update for BRSKI/GRASP later (for how they use GRASP) 3. Yang data model to manage ANI Not sure if i manage to have a draft ready until deadline, but will have presentation and draft before WG meeting. Note: 2. and 3. are meant to be part of the work for the existing charter items, they where aspects that fell over from ACP, BRSKI drafts and quite frankly are better in separate drafts because they require quite different author input/review than the core BRSKI/ACP documents. Will be flexible on amount of time needed. Cheers Toerless From nobody Wed Oct 25 15:07:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184FA13F488; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBTroXhd_oYX; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98AB013F486; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3285; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1508969215; x=1510178815; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eLBbZZ7SxR2Wu1EaxHDdGTeIbExBZwCctyIRR0gwH5w=; b=acPVAXud1Y+TU97vMa9n9j9Pnn0ISEnwlEZNyC/+SJN/OYOc2FGkuWeZ Xty3ikmrg6ku2sJsgAIfFdn+WOt7+plfvNE+EMtAi6C1mP0LmyQUYZXyh wi9oSyTY+olOmFSZtVmDQ+PDkl3wPnPMc4Zbv6iQsok2YrY8IeXV/I4e+ 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CYAQBxCfFZ/5FdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg19kboQhmSyBepY6EIIBCoU7AoRtQRYBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUdAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwEjVhALGAICJgICVwYBDAgBAYoUCKlBgieKdwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?SCBD4IfggeBUIISgwGEbRiDFIJhBYdPkSeIfYtJg2WFSYtthzmWAYE5JgUsgVt?= =?us-ascii?q?VJRWDLoJaHYIDJIl/LIIWAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.43,433,1503360000"; d="scan'208";a="312355732" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 25 Oct 2017 22:06:54 +0000 Received: from [10.82.228.76] (rtp-vpn1-1100.cisco.com [10.82.228.76]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v9PM6rwb017736; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:06:53 GMT To: Michael Richardson , anima@ietf.org Cc: ops-dir@ietf.org References: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> <716e2d10-4854-f54b-d843-83acd0a2b187@sandelman.ca> From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: <8cfd63dc-59b7-d0cf-399b-6d6c7f4081c6@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:06:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <716e2d10-4854-f54b-d843-83acd0a2b187@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 22:06:57 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/25/17 15:08, Michael Richardson wrote: > Joe, Max, Kent and I worked through your comments, and this will > result in a version -06 shortly. (06 will also include changes to > CMS) > > On 10/04/17 13:39, Joe Clarke wrote: >> In terms of revocation tests, it might be worth mentioning (from >> an operator perspective) that doing this may require broader >> internet connectivity than a bootstrapping device may typically >> have. Opening up that connectivity may be problematic from a >> security standpoint. There might, therefore, be some >> requirements or recommendations put on the bootstrapping services >> to make sure a device is both protected and can verify the >> validity of a cert. > > In general, the need for connectivity to check revocation is why > we prefer short-lived vouchers. That's fine. My point was in doing this there should be some callout to the fact that the certs will require connectivity for validation. > >> >> From a terminology standpoint, the use of the word "pledge" seems >> odd. The use of this word may not translate as clearly outside >> of the US. Why not something like candidate? > > That's an interesting suggestion. It has a slightly different > connotation and implies some kind of contest. > > We picked pledge based upon the traditions of fraternities, with > inspiration from movies like Animal House. Dictionary definitions > of Pledge reinforce our usage. I speak US English, and I knew what you meant. But I, too, looked it up, and I didn't find this as a common definition. If I'm the only one commenting, pledge is likely fine. I was just curious if this would be as obvious for non-US English speakers. > >> Below are my section-by-section reviews: >> >> Section 1: >> >> There is a reference to a "second category" of vouchers, but this >> is not referenced anywhere else. I'm not sure what the >> "categories" of vouchers are. More explanation (or rephrasing) is >> required here. > > We have clarified the "second category". Also removed the word > ephemeral in the intro as being confusing here > > The categories are essentially: "nonce" (freshness by being online, > and containing data from the pledge), and "time-based" (freshness > by having a useful real-time clock and paying attention to the > expires-on attribute). So we changed that paragraph to: > > The lifetimes of vouchers may vary. In some bootstrapping > protocols the vouchers may include a nonce restricting them to a > single use, whereas in others the vouchers may have an indicated > lifetime. In order to support long lifetimes this document > recommends using short lifetimes with programatic renewal, see > Section 7.1. Thanks. > >> Section 6.1: >> >> Is this needed? Can you simply refer to >> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams? > > We ripped out section 4, and referenced the document informatively, > and hope that it will get published. Thanks. Joe > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTMiWQHc8wChijkr7lvaI+K/hTPhwUCWfEK+gAKCRBvaI+K/hTP h0LGAJ9h5e2wIKXkkgakNYPimAB6UUxN6ACdEQI1LKVgfEDeYWfEnrzu5giloi8= =yWEi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Wed Oct 25 18:47:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25FF513AB36 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ytaa6tfqEGyk for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52B831395F3 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 17so1320077pfn.12 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I6/buPDeoOpXtRn2aK+svSeuHEiB1qHtCcpS8IIZf3A=; b=VobHXz5518Tu9j6Llspj3e2baB+A4aAVmtgD2eBZYmsdtAXhdOK1TojyfRm3gJ95pH SYdGdQXu4kABhIRlu1LfA/M4bZaHQ5xD6iEWsuuia1Ez1XgFoFUUD8Fn1s6o3nl3mkLD I1cPxlSwbbAnzBYnZfArb1SbkU43GBi88pm8F6ZnrEmaPpGKrDGoPfDUlTPAagHA2jma gpKgbUaURc0tiYVTtdEYK12gezRpHzwyBlxvKG6+sHM3XdAMrcpdgdK1IOA2vdoarLar LBOEoHBd2vYLfODrZ1E0nitKZVDHxiEMBQddilthCEh59VMriBUSKSdJzcmknGOMPXYp Z1dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I6/buPDeoOpXtRn2aK+svSeuHEiB1qHtCcpS8IIZf3A=; b=YTuLawPHIv9rGEHhQsx6oqjtJfmOK7M3kWHW5+HQiZcEaNLdcqBiJSrXwrfMnTUf81 hmj8nZ1PcYdp15hEfuXpIIhDXQ8xfVhI/dVnojzddNAnBWPkHci1dq7Xj0RLdFF1Ohe2 DlZ5oPvuIv1y8DPIA3ArueMlDg/VmLvpitCSTywrfIrzcqiiANdU/RClel67F2cxT6rh /uk8ht9gwCObhg2F4G2fU6bhZvWeWRL9cJqxt6b388HXwelkSLKpUAbXZONAYizPnnlL zR5UmVip+8q6SljYOa1JrSTGcDbfcN9RD3KNVQCXDe87oePVZYCBAs3mqFOuIhXRxxMh C9cA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXfdVRbHC744Ek+RilyqClhW8SwpuLMRYD70CdplsTvw/W0UYQt qh8s/D9wcqkKqJaxXN7byfoNNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TYnBdHJjTx090kFdLk8AVGNSS+LyLxGIiGIGWghbnvI5Hujttthn/56rmZtUSDkjid6gBMjQ== X-Received: by 10.84.176.131 with SMTP id v3mr3151758plb.208.1508982470622; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z8sm7369871pfl.135.2017.10.25.18.47.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:47:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <150898235576.24061.18119501327490473878@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150898235576.24061.18119501327490473878@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:47:53 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150898235576.24061.18119501327490473878@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:47:53 -0000 Updated with two new sections and additional authors. Please read and comment; we hope to discusss this at IETF 100. Brian -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03.txt Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:45:55 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents Authors : Brian Carpenter Laurent Ciavaglia Sheng Jiang Pierre Peloso Filename : draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-10-25 Abstract: This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service Agents for autonomic networks. It is based on the Autonomic Network Infrastructure outlined in the ANIMA reference model, making use of the Autonomic Control Plane and the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Wed Oct 25 20:44:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE79137C4A; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGwTCzWP3mR5; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22c.google.com (mail-pf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0C65138F47; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id b6so1527333pfh.7; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dYf66NR2hcWfzPUoxHrmwTXCfiMN1qkPVDHDh0KzuZI=; b=L7fB51eaZ9KdZWo8oAvRLNuZi/5WrCHHFBda03hgLb1G192P81TaoPzaxuUwCP92PG woTNjPQpict8VRxIKtcwk51yFG6Z7frqtJ5aGJ/GF4WNRqZfxsfADBPZig3cx7hwfvLm vxnjCz9281f3FmCyBJLBY0x1QjjGSbfKWkmHj+BdgRlG4UukMORD2Ltb1tfjGCHCeE5G kkXR2Tc3kXGNTTmc2KO7xczCmuw2viJwLf+Pes93LcvJ+E/SHqcErhu9Gf7AWCwni+pv RfrWlFbbBiMsIDyFvmbNQihOLIU7BvrEJSwS9hLeNNQ1Q9z0XCoUcIPqTHxnaaSuLi/n CvpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dYf66NR2hcWfzPUoxHrmwTXCfiMN1qkPVDHDh0KzuZI=; b=mk82yFwuRdyd2S2E5LiYBhA5yIRgYBPJgKzgNeGhNnrIArfPTV66V6DdsgzjwHYEXl DbTDqjLNCoVz4hgagbhhnKyhZ1AOyorsj7yeealj+eb+SfDiyYDwHyzaLw6WZCJxFhOl KIcfrjYStZvvZQSOGV8wBeKq/4G2+h+g5QfxymbOEdQFQ5fcQnHJi2QoODEk3zcx5JGG NewsSY1bbW5U8AMzavwXopkxFvFV0ifAHiIy5H773XbzqBTQxNsb5cpt6QW0TkbK4DMy zv+KydyMryipLDOxFS5+4QFBerQr4NyasAdHx/3ihlcbphMIiRQHzB/iqqZr1qxWOsin Xjpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXq556bQ+HqxE25RlJu0hk2UfE5xUvxinX4sYc/wRjAPZCV6EUf Hul5G9uUvwKBHk5PfsJ4P/NCZw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RQ4O4WZxY1AQquGElrR5kWemgpE1eDwVM/G2RoauQi7HCFJQVscWKdd2yk9HL5A11Hkz9Jtg== X-Received: by 10.99.128.199 with SMTP id j190mr3784126pgd.145.1508989465997; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b19sm7217192pfd.182.2017.10.25.20.44.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:44:24 -0700 (PDT) To: Sheng Jiang , "anima@ietf.org" Cc: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:44:27 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 03:44:29 -0000 Hi, I've already sent my comments on the GRASP objectives defined in this version. Here are my comments from a superficial re-read of the whole document. I only spent about an hour on this, so document shepherd and AD please note: this document really needs multiple reviewers. Nits and substantive points are mixed together. Introduction, page 5: > The following sections are non-normative: Section 7 reviews benefits > of the ACP Actually that should be Section 9. I really hope you are using for all internal references. Otherwise there will be a disaster when this goes to the RFC Editor. Introduction, page 6: > The ACP as defined in this document can be implemented and operated > without dependency against other components of autonomous networks Please don't use "autonomous". It doesn't mean exactly the same as "autonomic". This occurs in 4 places in the draft. (Autonomous cars drive themselves. An autonomic car would also decide for itself where to go.) Acronyms and Terminology, page 7: > domain information (field): An rfc822Name information element (e.g.: > field) in the domain certificate in which the ACP relevant > information is encoded: the domain name and the ACP address. You need to define "domain certificate" too, even just a forward reference since it is well explained later in the draft. Also, somewhere in the terminology section, can you give a relevant definition of "loopback interface", since we have established via the 6man list and even the internet-history list that it is a slippery concept. Something like: loopback interface: The conventional name for a neutral virtual IP interface to which addresses may be assigned, but which transmits no external traffic. In Overview, page 13: > Note: > > o Non-autonomic NMS ("Network Management Systems") or SDN > controllers have to be manually connected into the ACP. The phrase "manually connnected" bugs me a little. I agree there needs to be a human decision but that will be a configuration decision; the actual connection process will be automated. How about "manually configured for connection into the ACP"? > o Connecting over non-ACP Layer-3 clouds initially requires a tunnel > between ACP nodes. > > o None of the above operations (except manual ones) is reflected in > the configuration of the node. That sentence illustrates exactly why "manually connected" is wrong. In ACP Adjacency Table, page 20: > To know to which nodes to establish an ACP channel, every ACP node > maintains an adjacency table. The adjacency table contains > information about adjacent ACP nodes, at a minimum: node-ID, Link- > local IPv6 address (discovered by GRASP as explained below), domain, > certificate. You must also include the interface index (the number, not the name) with the LL address. Without that, the address is useless. (Discussed with Michael B a long time ago, but somehow it didn't make it into the reference model text.) (I write as one who has coded the process of discovering a node's link local addresses and interface indexes, because GRASP can't run without them.) Also - this text duplicates the reference model. We'd perhaps better agree where it belongs and delete it from one draft or the other. Duplicated text always causes problems later. In GRASP as a core service of the ACP, page 28: > The ACP does not use IP multicast routing nor does it provide generic > IP multicast services. However, GRASP sends multicasts to the GRASP multicast address on each ACP interface, sent as unicast inside the ACP tunnels. This is fully explained later, but the reader might be confused. I suggest adding: The handling of GRASP multicast messages is explained in the following section. In Addressing inside the ACP, page 33: > Links inside the ACP only use link-local IPv6 addressing, such that > each node only requires one routable virtual address. Does the really mean each *node*? Can we have more than one ACP instance in a node? And didn't we discuss some use cases for multiple addresses recently? A related but more general question: If there are multiple GRASP instances in a node (ignoring the DULL case), does each instance require its own ACP unicast address and its own ACP security associations? (I hope the answer is "No".) In Combined ACP/Data-Plane Interface (VRF Select), page 57: > In result, RFC6724 source address selection Rule 5.5 may result in > the same correct source address selection behavior of NMS hosts > without further configuration on it as the separate ACP connect and > data-plane interfaces. As described in the text for Rule 5.5, this > is only a may, because IPv6 hosts are not required to track next-hop > information. Well, you can change this by requiring RFC8028. In Configured Remote ACP neighbor, page 58: > remote-peer = [ local-address, method, remote-address ] > local-address = ip-address > remote-address = transport-address > transport-address = > [ (ip-address | pattern) ?( , protocol ?(, port)) (, pmtu) ] > ip-address = (ipv4-address | ipv6-address ) > method = "IKEv2" / "dTLS" / .. > pattern = some IP address set Hmm. This seems a bit loose for normative text. What's ".." and what's the format of "pattern"? That's it for now. Brian Regards Brian From nobody Wed Oct 25 23:10:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A652F13AB66 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:10:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T52WoS2CqILp for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2748D13A0AA for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 23:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRI59510; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:10:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:10:45 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.249]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:10:32 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: William Atwood , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, Thread-Index: AQHTTToEKgOshGwYjkqD/+eRLAiOaaL1poOA Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 06:10:31 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B92817563C2@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CF0122E@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <7f959e2a-8ed5-1e79-71d4-8dd774e90b8e@concordia.ca> In-Reply-To: <7f959e2a-8ed5-1e79-71d4-8dd774e90b8e@concordia.ca> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.185.119] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.59F17C67.0084, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.249, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a97a4710caf85e5197066ca2b3ad291e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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ODMwDQo+IERlcGFydG1lbnQgb2YgQ29tcHV0ZXIgU2NpZW5jZQ0KPiAgICBhbmQgU29mdHdhcmUg RW5naW5lZXJpbmcNCj4gQ29uY29yZGlhIFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgRVYgMy4xODUgICAgIGVtYWlsOndp bGxpYW0uYXR3b29kQGNvbmNvcmRpYS5jYQ0KPiAxNDU1IGRlIE1haXNvbm5ldXZlIEJsdmQuIFdl c3QgICAgaHR0cDovL3VzZXJzLmVuY3MuY29uY29yZGlhLmNhL35iaWxsDQo+IE1vbnRyZWFsLCBR dWViZWMgQ2FuYWRhIEgzRyAxTTgNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IEFuaW1hIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBBbmltYUBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FuaW1hDQo= From nobody Thu Oct 26 08:02:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2CE13F0A8 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrpClVSN7WAi for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 118211388A9 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8BA20246; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6036781DB3; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:02:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org CC: Eliot Lear , Terry Manderson In-Reply-To: <150895908497.4882.7343711159905354407@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150895908497.4882.7343711159905354407@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] IANA early allocations for I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:02:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Chairs, Shepherd, we believe that this document includes responses to all the WGLC review comments. We are adding examples to the end of it. It would be nice if we could get an IANA early allocation for the eContentType, so that we can produce the examples correctly before AUTH48. It would also be nice if we could get an IANA early allocation for the BRSKI MASAURL OID ARC and also Eliot's MUD URL OID so that those examples (which also include eContentType) could be corrected earlier. Terry, do you see a problem with asking for the early allocation at this point? internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-voucher-06 -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnx+PsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUJQgf/ZS4y03L9d918vYkzwm052gWckCUEW0f1anthyoXvpmM9xSJm9lIhIwPv et0kHLkS3tqQnMkm5u8+joEb3xBksjUzEWL/M1JcNSvdm9sVK+l7YbwaHnezE/P4 hTdDdanRw0+ewe9fPlsolLGGWmsWXH19qbqBA1wfMBySKm5Hv/2JLdzrTFEOrR43 Eubt1q4RFtX7I+RQ8Yd2AlUheTFpogFOozWJZF8yzAk5QcfMXgCZcytRDPyve65f Y/XTI0TEkOllXegO3DT9bv17jtxCOgUnKCvo+/W5wRtJRVWHdMHlaLBBjDGSyqUx G/JSTgwEMaFZRqUr6TOpNk0o8HlgGA== =tfsg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Oct 26 08:35:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07F113F56B; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XCIXgczmuA_X; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB019137C2E; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F316020246; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD7080D17; Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Joe Clarke cc: anima@ietf.org, ops-dir@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8cfd63dc-59b7-d0cf-399b-6d6c7f4081c6@cisco.com> References: <150713877278.24247.17060593538415650962@ietfa.amsl.com> <716e2d10-4854-f54b-d843-83acd0a2b187@sandelman.ca> <8cfd63dc-59b7-d0cf-399b-6d6c7f4081c6@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:35:23 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Joe Clarke wrote: >>> From a terminology standpoint, the use of the word "pledge" seems >>> odd. The use of this word may not translate as clearly outside of >>> the US. Why not something like candidate? >> >> That's an interesting suggestion. It has a slightly different >> connotation and implies some kind of contest. >> >> We picked pledge based upon the traditions of fraternities, with >> inspiration from movies like Animal House. Dictionary definitions of >> Pledge reinforce our usage. > I speak US English, and I knew what you meant. But I, too, looked it > up, and I didn't find this as a common definition. If I'm the only one > commenting, pledge is likely fine. I was just curious if this would be > as obvious for non-US English speakers. I first concocted it in 6tisch and convinced the others. I also made Max put the (aargh! --pirate) R into BRSKI. So please blame me!! In a 6tisch document, I reference http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pledge definition #6 is the one, but it's interesting how the other definitions also provide interesting connections. The key was to pick a term that wasn't otherwise used in another document. 1. a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something: a pledge of aid; a pledge not to wage war. 2. something delivered as security for the payment of a debt or fulfillment of a promise, and subject to forfeiture on failure to pay or fulfill the promise. 3. the state of being given or held as security: to put a thing in pledge. 4. Law. the act of delivering goods, property, etc., to another for security. the resulting legal relationship. 5. something given or regarded as a security. 6. a person accepted for membership in a club, fraternity, or sorority, but not yet formally approved. 7. an assurance of support or goodwill conveyed by drinking a person's health; a toast. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlnyALcACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV/lAf/cIZANgydajTghPCElDgoDH/l/lEnJ3DIV1HY7v7HVI47tfu5Ab+TKNt3 nbqC/d0C8I6Gx9lKjWjRh0SD0XWrimdGES16tzIccNli8UANzlJ/dAjlo46xfhc3 olelf7VcBfvLr0MAsYEaK/49n0WSIWDHz1uVTwWGv/52nYzGcIW7DbrTYuR3nTc0 KC9YudKv0v+0ISv/LuJs2etpLmZQn1QQvpwNWLScqLogtK90V3YLQyBz1HT/e66C UxtceitNNxAHVkGu34cZg6HQrPfXKJnlV88W5ftc42942tE0LdSq4cjuSjRTABe0 e+qcJJGDcx2Im6KSR+U7+7aaJOIaVg== =zW/I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Oct 27 14:11:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0E713F5D4 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:11:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.272 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.272 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.618, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HK_NAME_DR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgG7zWHYrpbY for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.katezarealty.com (mail.katezarealty.com [104.168.158.213]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65A413F5AD for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.katezarealty.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79AE3741019 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 21:11:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at katezarealty.com Received: from mail.katezarealty.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.katezarealty.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 1cof87Ol8Qey for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maxs-mbp.cablelabs.com (unknown [192.160.73.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.katezarealty.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 954C43741015 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:11:03 -0400 (EDT) To: Anima WG From: "Dr. Pala" Organization: OpenCA Labs Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:11:03 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms070803020501080502000305" Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] New I-D for OCSP over DNS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 21:11:11 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070803020501080502000305 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E75F7C414D04281C11DA4788" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E75F7C414D04281C11DA4788 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, As suggested by some people from other WGs, I just wanted to cross-post=20 this message here since the proposal heavily rely on DNS and can be=20 leveraged in many different environments (e.g., Server and Client=20 (browsers) authentication, document validation, IoT identities, etc.)=20 and we would like to receive feedback from anybody who might be=20 interested in the topic. *Context. *We are currently working on specifying how to use DNS as a=20 transport protocol for revocation information for digital certificates.=20 In particular, we are working on how to leverage the distributed nature=20 of DNS to efficiently (and possibly at a lower operational costs)=20 distribute OCSP (Online Certificate Status Protocol) responses to=20 applications/devices/etc. *Current Status.* We started this work sometime ago but never really had = the time to finish it. Now it seems we can focus more on the topic and=20 would like to discuss this work in a more public venue. We have recently = updated the two competing I-D we submitted sometime ago into the latest=20 reference I-D that is available here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pala-odin/ Please feel free to contact us for any help (you might require or you=20 might provide), feedback, etc. Thanks, Max --=20 Best Regards, Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D. OpenCA Labs Director OpenCA Logo --------------E75F7C414D04281C11DA4788 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------8EB24DC21E6216C6947D4D85" --------------8EB24DC21E6216C6947D4D85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all,

As suggested by some people from other WGs, I just wanted to cross-post this message here since the proposal heavily rely on DNS and can be leveraged in many different environments (e.g., Server and Client (browsers) authentication, document validation, IoT identities, etc.) and we would like to receive feedback from anybody who might be interested in the topic.

Context. We are currently working on specifying how to use DNS as a transport protocol for revocation information for digital certificates. In particular, we are working on how to leverage the distributed nature of DNS to efficiently (and possibly at a lower operational costs) distribute OCSP (Online Certificate Status Protocol) responses to applications/devices/etc.

Current Status. We started this work sometime ago but never really had the time to finish it. Now it seems we can focus more on the topic and would like to discuss this work in a more public venue. We have recently updated the two competing I-D we submitted sometime ago into the latest reference I-D that is available here:<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https:= //datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pala-odin/

Please feel free to contact us for any help (you might require or you might provide), feedback, etc.

Thanks,
Max

--
Best Regards,
Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.
OpenCA Labs Director
3D"OpenCA
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([2406:e001:3d21:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i72sm27301475pfi.137.2017.10.29.15.45.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:45:25 -0700 (PDT) To: draft-xiao-anima-event-service@ietf.org References: <150917309165.2705.8100518849661905085@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <4a77f71d-176d-3d83-c37f-4f73cda08315@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:45:20 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150917309165.2705.8100518849661905085@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-xiao-anima-event-service-00.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:45:32 -0000 Hi, I've read this draft with interest. Let's assume for a moment that we agree on the need for such a service, and that we agree that it would be a generic service provided as part of the ANI. Then I would like to discuss the concluding remarks: > This may involve slight extensions of the current ANI by integrating > the ES module. For example, the API set of GRASP [I-D.ietf-anima- > grasp-api] will need to be extended with new APIs to access ES > module. While I agree that an API would be needed, I'm not sure that it should be an extension to the GRASP API. That's more a software engineering question than a protocol design question, of course, but I don't see a reason to mix the two APIs. (We perhaps have a general question of how to support ASA-to-ASA communication within a node, although "just use GRASP" might be the answer.) > GRASP itself will also need to be extended for ES module > signaling. I would like to know more. What specific features do you need? GRASP already provides unsolicited notifications (M_FLOOD) and asynchronous notifications (M_REQ_SYN or M_REQ_NEG, which both require the other end to be in a listening state for incoming requests). What else do you need? Remember that a GRASP objective can carry *any* data structure you want, up to the maximum allowed size. So you can define any kind of content for the notification messages without extending GRASP. Regards Brian On 28/10/2017 19:44, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : Event Service in Autonomic Networking > Authors : Xun Xiao > Artur Hecker > Zoran Despotovic > Filename : draft-xiao-anima-event-service-00.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 2017-10-27 > > Abstract: > Event service is an asynchronous communication model between > interacting parties, e.g. autonomic functions (AFs), instead of a > tightly coupled point-to-point (P2P) synchronous communication model. > Event service enables autonomic nodes in ANI to publish data > information, which will be made network distributable autonomously, > and subscribers who register interests to specific events will be > notified if the information is available. This draft describes how to > support event service (ES) for autonomic networking. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xiao-anima-event-service/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xiao-anima-event-service-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-anima-event-service-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Mon Oct 30 09:56:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A1313FE1D for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xbIZq3I-ysUR for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4094D7D75 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.77]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235B458C510; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 0E355B0D023; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:51:34 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: William Atwood Cc: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171030165134.GA27549@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:56:02 -0000 Hi Bill, Thanks for the review. Let me comment quickly. Will do the fixups after Sheng has made determinations. Inline... On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 10:35:56PM -0400, William Atwood wrote: > Hello, > > These are my technical comments on this draft, for the first 32 pages. > Given the length of the document, I do not expect to be able to finish > it by October 28, so I second Brian's request for additional time. > > Bill > > 1) The definition of "ANI" in Section 2 says that it includes ACP, BRSKI > and GRASP. The statement of Requirements in Section 4 says: > > "ACP4: The ACP MUST be generic. ... It MUST NOT be tied to a particular > application or transport protocol." > > These two statements are in conflict, because the ANI as defined in this > document clearly depends on GRASP. Actually, the ACP does depend on GRASP too (eg: to find neighbors, and also because it defines ACP-GRasp to be core part of ACP services). So no need to bring in ANI ;-) I did respond to this point somewhere deep inside of one of the long reviews from Brian or Sheng i think, so let me repeat: AFAIK, the origin of ACP4 was in the early history of ANIMA: We first brainstormed how we could build out ASA solely using one standardized transport/session layer protocol and in result, we could make the underlying infrastructure (ANI) very simple. In technical terms, think how we could have NOT built the ACP as a virtualized IP inband network but if we would have simply built out GRASP and then ANI was just GRASP, In the extreme, there would be no IP hop-by-hop forwarding in ACP, but every unicast communication between two ASA would be hop-by-hop forwarded by GRASP. No need to build a whole VRF around ACP etc. pp. In the end we concluded that this was too bold to gain short term attaction, and i also was worried about performance even for GRASP unicast if we didn't rely on existing forwarding plane mechanisms such as end-to-end IP/TCP/TLS. Now if we do get a lot of adoption of ASA with only GRASP then we can of course bring "ANI-lite" that would potentially do this.. But first we got to kill a huge lot of legacy. So thats how ACP4 requirement came along. I changed in to "application or transport" through the last review, but i agree that this still does not well explain. How about "Clients of the ACP MUST NOT be tied..." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (instead of "It") > 2) As a specification, Step 4 in Section 5 is terrible. Step 3 > explicitly includes the "for-loop". Step 4 then shifts to the > perspective of an individual peer relationship, and uses the singular in > the first sentence. It then shifts again to the plural for the second > sentence. Suggested text: > > "4. For each node in the candidate peer list, it then establishes a > secure tunnel of the negotiated type. The resulting tunnels are then > placed into the previously set up VRF. This creates an overlay network > with hop-by-hop tunnels." Thanks. Unless there are counterproposals, i will put that into 13. > 3) In Section 6.1.1, in the comment on "routing-subdomain", it says, > <<"rsub" is optional and should only be used when its impacts are > understood.>> Who must do the understanding? What is the test for > "understanding"? Is this a statement that "rsub" should not be used > until the WG has done more work, or until the reader has read this > document 42 times, or ?? For a normative section of this document, this > is remarkably ambiguous. In my university in 1988?, every student had to sign the following statement before he/she got an account: "i hereby declare that i will not execute commands whose impact i do not understand". The more i learned of unix then, the more hilarious that statement beame over time. Every decade i now flip between "that was terrible" and "we really need to reintroduce this". Practically speaking: Before introducing rsub, older versions of ACP had a lot of hand waiving about subdomains, and open questions how they would tie in with mutual authentication, addressing and so on. All sounding harmless by using the word "intent" in many places. So i sat down and tried to figure out how i would make it work. I think its now implementable. But the primary benefit i see is only in being able to reduce routing tables, because rsub gives you multiple ULA prefixes, and you could auto-aggregate those. Only tht we have not sat down trying to specify a standard auto-aggregation. And i don't know how difficult that would be. So with that uncertainty in mind, using rsub now is a bit like starting to use IPv6 when you have all the IPv4 address space in the world. You are investing in an uncertain future (don't think 20/20 hindsight ;-) So... given those more detailled insights, how do you think we could better warn the user of this option ? "Benefits of using rsub may depend on future work in enhancing routing for the ACP" ? But maybe i am overlooking other possible benefits. > 4) In Section 6.2.3, para 1, line 3, "must" -> "MUST" (I believe that > this requirement should be normative.) There is no 6.2.3 in acp-12 ;-( > 5) In Section 6.7.2, para 2, line 4, "and not permit" -> "and MUST NOT > permit" (The implied dependence on the previous "MUST" should be made > explicit.) Ok. > > 6) In Section 6.8.2, para 2, I was puzzled by the statement that the ACP > could exist in the absence of any active ACP neighbors, since the ACP is > only created with the help of a neighbor that is already a member of the > domain. I then realized that domain membership (and its accompanying > domain certificate) could be established while a neighbor was active, > and then the neighbor could vanish. I suggest adding some text to make > this sequence of events clear. Suggestion: "It is created when the node > has a domain certificate, and continues to exist even if all of its > neighbors cease operation." Ok. Happy to get similar feedback for the remaining part of the doc ;-) Cheers Toerless > > On 15/10/2017 4:59 AM, Sheng Jiang wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > � > > > > This message starts the two-week ANIMA Working Group Last Call to > > advance draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12, An Autonomic > > Control Plane (ACP). This document's intended status is Standards Track. > > At present, there is one IPR file against this document, see below link. > > > > � > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ > > > > � > > > > Please send your comments by October 28th, 2017. If you do not feel > > this� document should advance, please state your reasons why. > > > > � > > > > Sheng JIANG is the assigned document shepherd. > > > > � > > > > Regards, > > > > � > > > > Sheng (co-chair, Toerless who as a co-author stayed neutral on the > > content side) > > > > � > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Anima mailing list > > Anima@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > > > -- > > Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 > Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 > Department of Computer Science > and Software Engineering > Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill > Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Oct 30 11:27:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81669A05B for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.534 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARYMBLa-DtWE for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262D913FA54 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@grace.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.217]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id v9UIQtNZ011925; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:26:56 -0400 To: Toerless Eckert , anima@ietf.org References: <20171030165134.GA27549@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: William Atwood Message-ID: <28dd4447-42fd-79a8-cd98-d17e65b48a2c@concordia.ca> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:26:54 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20171030165134.GA27549@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2017-10-30 14:26:56 EDT Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] WGLC on draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12 - Respond by October 28th, 2017, X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:27:06 -0000 Toerless, Thank you for the response. Please see inline:- Bill On 30/10/2017 12:51 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Thanks for the review. Let me comment quickly. Will do the fixups > after Sheng has made determinations. > > > Inline... > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 10:35:56PM -0400, William Atwood wrote: >> Hello, >> >> These are my technical comments on this draft, for the first 32 pages. >> Given the length of the document, I do not expect to be able to finish >> it by October 28, so I second Brian's request for additional time. >> >> Bill >> >> 1) The definition of "ANI" in Section 2 says that it includes ACP, BRSKI >> and GRASP. The statement of Requirements in Section 4 says: >> >> "ACP4: The ACP MUST be generic. ... It MUST NOT be tied to a particular >> application or transport protocol." >> >> These two statements are in conflict, because the ANI as defined in this >> document clearly depends on GRASP. > > Actually, the ACP does depend on GRASP too (eg: to find neighbors, > and also because it defines ACP-GRasp to be core part of ACP services). So > no need to bring in ANI ;-) > > I did respond to this point somewhere deep inside of one of the long reviews > from Brian or Sheng i think, so let me repeat: > > AFAIK, the origin of ACP4 was in the early history of ANIMA: We first > brainstormed how we could build out ASA solely using one standardized > transport/session layer protocol and in result, we could make the > underlying infrastructure (ANI) very simple. In technical terms, think > how we could have NOT built the ACP as a virtualized IP inband network > but if we would have simply built out GRASP and then ANI was just GRASP, > In the extreme, there would be no IP hop-by-hop forwarding in ACP, > but every unicast communication between two ASA would be hop-by-hop > forwarded by GRASP. No need to build a whole VRF around ACP etc. pp. > > In the end we concluded that this was too bold to gain short term > attaction, and i also was worried about performance even for GRASP > unicast if we didn't rely on existing forwarding plane mechanisms such > as end-to-end IP/TCP/TLS. Now if we do get a lot of adoption of ASA > with only GRASP then we can of course bring "ANI-lite" that would potentially > do this.. But first we got to kill a huge lot of legacy. > > So thats how ACP4 requirement came along. > > I changed in to "application or transport" through the last review, > but i agree that this still does not well explain. > > How about "Clients of the ACP MUST NOT be tied..." > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > (instead of "It") Works for me. > >> 2) As a specification, Step 4 in Section 5 is terrible. Step 3 >> explicitly includes the "for-loop". Step 4 then shifts to the >> perspective of an individual peer relationship, and uses the singular in >> the first sentence. It then shifts again to the plural for the second >> sentence. Suggested text: >> >> "4. For each node in the candidate peer list, it then establishes a >> secure tunnel of the negotiated type. The resulting tunnels are then >> placed into the previously set up VRF. This creates an overlay network >> with hop-by-hop tunnels." > > Thanks. Unless there are counterproposals, i will put that into 13. > >> 3) In Section 6.1.1, in the comment on "routing-subdomain", it says, >> <<"rsub" is optional and should only be used when its impacts are >> understood.>> Who must do the understanding? What is the test for >> "understanding"? Is this a statement that "rsub" should not be used >> until the WG has done more work, or until the reader has read this >> document 42 times, or ?? For a normative section of this document, this >> is remarkably ambiguous. > > In my university in 1988?, every student had to sign the following > statement before he/she got an account: "i hereby declare that i > will not execute commands whose impact i do not understand". The more > i learned of unix then, the more hilarious that statement beame > over time. Every decade i now flip between "that was terrible" and > "we really need to reintroduce this". > > Practically speaking: > > Before introducing rsub, older versions of ACP had a lot of hand waiving about > subdomains, and open questions how they would tie in with mutual authentication, > addressing and so on. All sounding harmless by using the word > "intent" in many places. So i sat down and tried to figure out how i would > make it work. I think its now implementable. But the primary benefit > i see is only in being able to reduce routing tables, because rsub gives > you multiple ULA prefixes, and you could auto-aggregate those. Only tht > we have not sat down trying to specify a standard auto-aggregation. And > i don't know how difficult that would be. So with that uncertainty in > mind, using rsub now is a bit like starting to use IPv6 when you > have all the IPv4 address space in the world. You are investing > in an uncertain future (don't think 20/20 hindsight ;-) > > So... given those more detailled insights, how do you think > we could better warn the user of this option ? > > "Benefits of using rsub may depend on future work in enhancing routing > for the ACP" ? How about this little expansion: "rsub" is optional; its syntax is defined in this document, but its semantics are for further study. Understanding the benefits of using rsub may depend on the results of future work on enhancing routing for the ACP. > > But maybe i am overlooking other possible benefits. > >> 4) In Section 6.2.3, para 1, line 3, "must" -> "MUST" (I believe that >> this requirement should be normative.) > > There is no 6.2.3 in acp-12 ;-( sorry, this should be 6.1.3. > >> 5) In Section 6.7.2, para 2, line 4, "and not permit" -> "and MUST NOT >> permit" (The implied dependence on the previous "MUST" should be made >> explicit.) > > Ok. >> >> 6) In Section 6.8.2, para 2, I was puzzled by the statement that the ACP >> could exist in the absence of any active ACP neighbors, since the ACP is >> only created with the help of a neighbor that is already a member of the >> domain. I then realized that domain membership (and its accompanying >> domain certificate) could be established while a neighbor was active, >> and then the neighbor could vanish. I suggest adding some text to make >> this sequence of events clear. Suggestion: "It is created when the node >> has a domain certificate, and continues to exist even if all of its >> neighbors cease operation." > > Ok. > > Happy to get similar feedback for the remaining part of the doc ;-) > > Cheers > Toerless >> >> On 15/10/2017 4:59 AM, Sheng Jiang wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> This message starts the two-week ANIMA Working Group Last Call to >>> advance draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-12, An Autonomic >>> Control Plane (ACP). This document's intended status is Standards Track. >>> At present, there is one IPR file against this document, see below link. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Please send your comments by October 28th, 2017. If you do not feel >>> this  document should advance, please state your reasons why. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sheng JIANG is the assigned document shepherd. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Sheng (co-chair, Toerless who as a co-author stayed neutral on the >>> content side) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Anima mailing list >>> Anima@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>> >> >> -- >> >> Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 >> Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 >> Department of Computer Science >> and Software Engineering >> Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca >> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill >> Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Mon Oct 30 14:38:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE04113FBF3; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:38:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150939949967.7819.14841653115116238686@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:38:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:38:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) Authors : Max Pritikin Michael C. Richardson Michael H. Behringer Steinthor Bjarnason Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09.txt Pages : 69 Date : 2017-10-30 Abstract: This document specifies automated bootstrapping of a remote secure key infrastructure (BRSKI) using vendor installed X.509 certificate, in combination with a vendor's authorizing service, both online and offline. Bootstrapping a new device can occur using a routable address and a cloud service, or using only link-local connectivity, or on limited/disconnected networks. Support for lower security models, including devices with minimal identity, is described for legacy reasons but not encouraged. Bootstrapping is complete when the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is successfully deployed to the device but the established secure connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the device as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 31 18:26:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE9113F586; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XZXiZzkcFyVS; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B3E13F828; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i5so684528pfe.6; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:cc:references:from:organization:to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z7Jci5TJr2B1iqa43HmXPb2vkROM8hFMPry3G/EVfgU=; b=JcMfGrf9sXgHlen/WlyMyLD7RlOQY1I7msbfof4o2NiV7zFaUCazUikyN0xtjmOYS3 jyD5a/lwSmfPnZZCFz2dRHoorqOQx6EtKShHSyqdtWZ7M3dOz+0/loV56jbdqAVYQsP7 dLD3PLIuT8Sg9pKoOXUQhBnWkihdoPodVDlUmGJn0frOCoA0HJLWi4/jRXsOGd+G8HQo kIChu9bJMCQme6o5ZNXzSD/A3Yu8HAmdUfAiVQ3ffpl1jNL2n+8vUWodnLCnA3I9wEyF JOgHDBiHyws00n8iueiDbGO1EaX1oysVH48hDaeqq66FqUwXu3DGJ20+2R38lJNEu+P+ /Lqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:cc:references:from:organization:to :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z7Jci5TJr2B1iqa43HmXPb2vkROM8hFMPry3G/EVfgU=; b=WjjR5VoM6j+IwCyrpXCdpRhFO6m7qY/JdQKn2Z3I+NSTcnOKYHMZx4S+zrYZi5d/2A bFMsEEA0jjj7oOo6inZbgALkqNSk2fxaLXqibF4AFzrO7uMHoz6tl0iurZynjM6WxihC ja2it3XTBuHzHeQ/Q25LYxU+HlV6Lhw6z/ayhMWdryiBYjyO2xBZV2ODfF1SmimE+XfI xXXtAP+R9Q6vn1mL3xWC/IJbeHQQ+rBr/VcbNnZ+8O4IWZD1JvVFiiaWzZ0JM9PnCi12 S0EVofAYtbSo8dxDOesKUWN74nJ5/I82esXwoHoD9b7uFCW+E8K+kxWWKruGFbpzzbTl CA2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUMVTJGKGsMNxY5XruidCuO1q2gtCwz5d9/HuxXoCYdpXIAYDoj KkR83lHi57Z/wdztPwPI8Xa2cA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TvJPcxAu4mPb9OM8ENVtavcyB1//teVIhNyWo6QK8T6CR5+VszcLbSxfcCSp2rWJWRRYTCKg== X-Received: by 10.101.73.79 with SMTP id q15mr4087968pgs.236.1509499611755; Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.216.38.140] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l79sm5651327pfb.33.2017.10.31.18.26.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Oct 2017 18:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: anima@ietf.org References: <150939949967.7819.14841653115116238686@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland To: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org Message-ID: <101bfb57-cee1-729a-6228-d90fbda2f90b@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 14:26:51 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150939949967.7819.14841653115116238686@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-09.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 01:26:53 -0000 I'm confused. On the one hand, you haven't fixed the syntax error that I pointed out in the flooded objective "AN_proxy". On the other hand, you've changed the discovered objective "AN_join_registrar" into a flooded objective. I thought that the BRSKI team had decided against that? I don't care, either way will work, but I'm a bit surprised. The flooded version seems to be correctly defined, unlike "AN_proxy". (Also, I thought you want to shorten its name to "AN_registrar", but that is a detail.) Regards Brian