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Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NKKLH5DN90do; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8425F3A15DD; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6D138981; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 14:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384F5A91; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 14:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, tte+ietf@cs.fau.de In-Reply-To: <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 18:25:45 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I had a discussion with Max this morning. He reminded me of the back and forth that we made on what thing would be pinned. We have come up with the following text changes. There are three pieces: the Registrar, to the MASA, and re-inforcing the RFC8366 process at the Pledge as it applies to provisional TLS connection. I haven't read the rest of this thread. I will do that this afternoon, and I may polish this diff based upon comments there. https://tinyurl.com/uek8a66 @@ -2043,8 +2044,39 @@ locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil]]]> The voucher media type "application/voucher-cms+json" is defined in and is also used for the registrar voucher-request. It is a JSON document that has been signed using a CMS structure. - The registrar MUST sign the registrar voucher-request. The entire registrar certificate chain, - up to and including the Domain CA, MUST be included in the CMS structure. + The registrar MUST sign the registrar voucher-request. + + + is quite flexible in what may be put into + the 'pinned-domain-cert': it may range from the End Entity (EE) + Certificate that the Registrar uses, to the entire private + Enterprise CA certificate. + More specific certificates result in a tighter binding, while less + specific certificates result in more flexibility. + + + A Registrar which is seeking a nonceless voucher for later offline use + benefits from a less specific certificate, as it permits the actual + keypair used by a future Registrar to be determined by the pinned + certificate authority. + + + A less specific certificate, such a public WebPKI certificate authority, would be + too open, and could permit any entity that can receive a + certificate from that authority to assume ownership of a device + that has a voucher pinned. + Future work may provide a solution to pin both a certificate and a + name. + + + The Registrar SHOULD request a voucher with the most specificity + consistent with the mode that it is operating in. + In order to do this, when the Registrar prepares the CMS structure + for the signed voucher-request, it SHOULD include only certificates + which are part of the chain that it wishes the MASA to pin. + This MAY be as small as only the End-Entity certificate (with cmcRC set) that + it uses as it's TLS Server Certificate, or it MAY be the entire + chain, including the Domain CA. MASA impementations SHOULD anticipate future media @@ -2140,19 +2172,29 @@ locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil]]]>
- The registrar's certificate chain is extracted from the signature - method. The entire registrar certificate chain was - included in the CMS structure, as specified in . - This CA certificate will be used to populate the - "pinned-domain-cert" of the voucher being issued. + A certificate chain is extracted from the Registrar's signed CMS container. + This chain may be as short as a single End-Entity Certificate, up + to the entire registrar certificate chain, including the Domain + CA certificate, + as specified in . - If this domain CA is unknown to the MASA, then it is to be + If the domain's CA is unknown to the MASA, then it is to be considered a temporary trust anchor for the rest of the steps in this section. The intention is not to authenticate the message as having come from a fully validated origin, but to establish the consistency of the domain PKI. + + The MAY use as much of the certificate chain that it received + from the Registrar as appropriate determined by MASA policy. + A MASA MAY have a local policy that it only pins the End-Entity + certificate. This is consistent with . + Details of the policy will typically depend upon the degree of + Supply Chain Integration, the mechanism used by the Registrar to + authenticate. Such a policy would also determine how a + the MASA will respond to a request for a nonceless voucher. +
The method used to verify the relationship between pledge and registrar. See . - The domain CA cert. See A certificate. See . This figure is illustrative, for an example, - see + see where an End Entity certificate + is used. The serial-number as provided in the voucher-request. Also see . Set as appropriate for the @@ -2454,11 +2501,20 @@ INSERT_TEXT_FROM_FILE example-voucher.json END
- The 'pinned-domain-cert' element of the voucher contains the domain - CA's public key. The pledge MUST use the 'pinned-domain-cert' trust - anchor to immediately complete authentication of the provisional TLS - connection. - If a registrar's credentials cannot be verified using the + + Following the process described in , + the pledge should consider the public key from the + pinned-domain-cert as the sole temporary trust anchor. + + + The pledge then evaluates the TLS Server Certificate chain that it + received when the TLS connection was formed using this trust + anchor. + It is possible that the pinned-domain-cert matches the End-Entity + Certificate provided in the TLS Server. + + + If a registrar's credentials cannot be verified using the pinned-domain-cert trust anchor from the voucher then the TLS connection is immediately discarded and the pledge abandons attempts to bootstrap with this -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6E3JkACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXZwAf/YP5HniXqqEgViKAUxd4DkUZIT3JgmS+DMrzmHhcQsJuxg7a24+OGG55t 3+NH19fYtZjM6/8cbE9eM79UaslK8xd0OgOtL3/VaNJtX8j8+zDKYFTRksfzGIMg rQA1OuE12Vnl3OvGqtWmgXMT46zIO9K0yW1cSMFjs+PEqYi7DJ1dWJicUzaiKA5o CJI07oEiHxjKmzbgBDqqL0NI2Z6wZJ5Dz9+/XQuwkdlru1RinidTWYjJ7L0MGUGW ObCf0C370nOvQCRBTX0g5JwsMTfpkzGvpJakO+/Bo2eOfZA99dLCKd9UKL+xfjey ithA2cqR4WV60t8EAX4w53IVZzEOlA== =Ytrz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Apr 1 12:45:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF513A1851 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rnjua0BBkZXr for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30AB23A1850 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C62738981; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 15:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD2D9F8; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 15:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Esko Dijk cc: Benjamin Kaduk , "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <600.1585687336@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 19:45:56 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Esko Dijk wrote: > Based on the discussion, trying to list some practical cases we can > have of the pinned-domain-cert: I believe that we concur on the uses. I'm not sure if you are saying the CA:TRUE is a requirement. I do not want to mandate that. CA:TRUE is, of course, acceptable. I think that today's revised text supports all of your use cases. If you find some fell out of bounds, then it's a mistake. > In the latter case, the self-signed limited-scope root CA will > typically be used as the pinned-domain-cert. And the EST server will > create certificates signed by this same root CA. I believe that by number of Registrar's the self-signed private CA will be the most common. It is what I have suggested in draft-richardson-anima-registrar-operations. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6E72QACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWOVAf/VPudt9Sd9GDf5m6mLlsQax9PXc33BmN4PNR+GDuUXxTHsMlXf+1NRV1x j90YotaczIb+LSgpybszOItyZ/ZYjyUsPdyfa4jDw87Y6xeaHg1t5ffx7hRo01oZ urXcfF8Q21EYXu2rngTRg0ayZ8/N7Er5UuROuJWTWv7ofV9yJ/AKoJ6ft+prP8nq nwdHnQbwQ6ZGsZ0fYya/h6bqeemSLriHajmshhmXEdNFXsiXC5K4feM+Gq3Iy4lx qM3jeYlRzmJpevm1QWbI5y2gtCUtzgMPC5gZCw4p1ZKE2wQVLpCVbz/vxgqrJhfC UDJVpbQ3VY/y7nGPfnbZBfze3lChxw== =wmI9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Apr 1 20:01:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9549A3A07B4; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 20:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A-_CC2ZSUTFU; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 20:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EB993A07B1; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 20:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 03231An8021987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 1 Apr 2020 23:01:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 20:01:10 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Michael Richardson Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, tte+ietf@cs.fau.de Message-ID: <20200402030110.GF50174@kduck.mit.edu> References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <19147.1585765530@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <19147.1585765530@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 03:01:28 -0000 On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 02:25:30PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Hi, I had a discussion with Max this morning. He reminded me of the back and > forth that we made on what thing would be pinned. > We have come up with the following text changes. > > There are three pieces: the Registrar, to the MASA, and re-inforcing the > RFC8366 process at the Pledge as it applies to provisional TLS connection. > > I haven't read the rest of this thread. > I will do that this afternoon, and I may polish this diff based upon comments there. Thanks, this seems like it will hit all the right spots. A few aids to polishing inline. > > https://tinyurl.com/uek8a66 > > @@ -2043,8 +2044,39 @@ locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil]]]> > The voucher media type "application/voucher-cms+json" is defined in > and is also used for the registrar voucher-request. It is a JSON document that has been > signed using a CMS structure. > - The registrar MUST sign the registrar voucher-request. The entire registrar certificate chain, > - up to and including the Domain CA, MUST be included in the CMS structure. > + The registrar MUST sign the registrar voucher-request. > + > + > + is quite flexible in what may be put into > + the 'pinned-domain-cert': it may range from the End Entity (EE) The transition from "registrar voucher request" to "pinned-domain-cert" is pretty abrupt; maybe something like "the voucher-request CMS object includes some number of certificates that are input to the MASA as it populates the "pinned-domain-cert" field of the voucher."? > + Certificate that the Registrar uses, to the entire private > + Enterprise CA certificate. > + More specific certificates result in a tighter binding, while less > + specific certificates result in more flexibility. This leaves what exactly is tightly bound/flexible a bit vague (which may be good!); if I did want to be more specific it might be "tigher binding of pledge to authorized entity in the Domain", which ... doesn't exactly roll of the tongue. > + > + > + A Registrar which is seeking a nonceless voucher for later offline use > + benefits from a less specific certificate, as it permits the actual > + keypair used by a future Registrar to be determined by the pinned > + certificate authority. > + > + > + A less specific certificate, such a public WebPKI certificate authority, would be Maybe "In some cases a less specific certificate, [...], could be too open"? (Add "In some cases" and s/would/could/.) > + too open, and could permit any entity that can receive a > + certificate from that authority to assume ownership of a device Maybe "any entity issued a certificate by that authority"? > + that has a voucher pinned. > + Future work may provide a solution to pin both a certificate and a > + name. ", that would reduce such risk of malicious ownership assertions"? > + > + > + The Registrar SHOULD request a voucher with the most specificity > + consistent with the mode that it is operating in. > + In order to do this, when the Registrar prepares the CMS structure > + for the signed voucher-request, it SHOULD include only certificates > + which are part of the chain that it wishes the MASA to pin. > + This MAY be as small as only the End-Entity certificate (with cmcRC set) that Hmm, we do use a bare "cmcRC" exactly once in the -39, but id-kp-cmcRA appears twice. (I'm not sure whether it matters which one to write.) > + it uses as it's TLS Server Certificate, or it MAY be the entire > + chain, including the Domain CA. > > > MASA impementations SHOULD anticipate future media > @@ -2140,19 +2172,29 @@ locator3 = [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, fe80::1234, 41, nil]]]> > >
> > - The registrar's certificate chain is extracted from the signature > - method. The entire registrar certificate chain was > - included in the CMS structure, as specified in . > - This CA certificate will be used to populate the > - "pinned-domain-cert" of the voucher being issued. > + A certificate chain is extracted from the Registrar's signed CMS container. > + This chain may be as short as a single End-Entity Certificate, up > + to the entire registrar certificate chain, including the Domain > + CA certificate, > + as specified in . > > > - If this domain CA is unknown to the MASA, then it is to be > + If the domain's CA is unknown to the MASA, then it is to be > considered a temporary trust anchor for the rest of the steps > in this section. The intention is not to authenticate the > message as having come from a fully validated origin, but > to establish the consistency of the domain PKI. > > + > + The MAY use as much of the certificate chain that it received MASA? > + from the Registrar as appropriate determined by MASA policy. Maybe comma before "determined"? > + A MASA MAY have a local policy that it only pins the End-Entity > + certificate. This is consistent with . > + Details of the policy will typically depend upon the degree of > + Supply Chain Integration, the mechanism used by the Registrar to This seems like a misplaced comma or incomplete list or something. > + authenticate. Such a policy would also determine how a > + the MASA will respond to a request for a nonceless voucher. > + >
> >
@@ -2377,9 +2419,10 @@ INSERT_TEXT_FROM_FILE example-voucher.json END > The method used to verify the relationship > between pledge and registrar. See target="MASAassertion"/>. > - The domain CA cert. See + A certificate. See target="MASApinned"/>. This figure is illustrative, for an example, > - see > + see where an End Entity certificate > + is used. > The serial-number as provided in the > voucher-request. Also see . > Set as appropriate for the > > @@ -2454,11 +2501,20 @@ INSERT_TEXT_FROM_FILE example-voucher.json END >
>
title="Pledge authentication of provisional TLS connection"> > - The 'pinned-domain-cert' element of the voucher contains the domain > - CA's public key. The pledge MUST use the 'pinned-domain-cert' trust > - anchor to immediately complete authentication of the provisional TLS > - connection. > - If a registrar's credentials cannot be verified using the > + > + Following the process described in , > + the pledge should consider the public key from the > + pinned-domain-cert as the sole temporary trust anchor. > + > + > + The pledge then evaluates the TLS Server Certificate chain that it > + received when the TLS connection was formed using this trust > + anchor. > + It is possible that the pinned-domain-cert matches the End-Entity > + Certificate provided in the TLS Server. > + > + > + If a registrar's credentials cannot be verified using the > pinned-domain-cert trust anchor from the voucher then the TLS > connection is immediately > discarded and the pledge abandons attempts to bootstrap with this How much more polishing/comments do you want before publishing a -40? Thanks again for putting this together! -Ben P.S. If the s/public key/certificate/ from my Comment would make it into the -40, that would be greatly appreciated. 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from AM5P190MB0275.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.161.62.28) by AM5P190MB0290.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.161.92.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.15; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:46:59 +0000 Received: from AM5P190MB0275.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::8c96:a66b:e170:bf8f]) by AM5P190MB0275.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::8c96:a66b:e170:bf8f%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2856.019; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:46:59 +0000 From: Esko Dijk To: Michael Richardson CC: Benjamin Kaduk , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWBu/ZmuKBXSTnP0+1TFNY1ukEm6hh9VUAgADXdgCAAF8PAIAAzCFwgAC2ZACAALWwgA== Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:46:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <600.1585687336@localhost> <5633.1585770340@localhost> 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10:55:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AFF3A0E64; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:55:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oTLx6bZ0beO4; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 209DE3A0E5A; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9C33897D; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A21C24; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:54:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Benjamin Kaduk cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, tte+ietf@cs.fau.de In-Reply-To: <20200402030110.GF50174@kduck.mit.edu> References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <19147.1585765530@localhost> <20200402030110.GF50174@kduck.mit.edu> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 17:55:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I have applied your edits. Some were already pointed out by Max. I have changed all instances of cmcRA to id-kp-cmcRA, and noticed that I had two typos of "cmcRC". > P.S. If the s/public key/certificate/ from my Comment would make it into > the -40, that would be greatly appreciated. I have made that change. I have added to C.2: For readability, the output of the asn1parse has been truncated at 72 columns rather than wrapped. I found that wrapping the long sequences of HEX numbers did not contribute to understanding, and was just burning "trees". It's the sequence/etc. that probably matters. If the asn1parse output is totally meaningless, I would not be opposed to removing it. The goal of these examples is to provide input to other implementations. I have generated -40 and I am posting it now. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6GJusACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXHsQf9E2xZCW88tzQBU7pE/qNDVmQOrxqFGKi9IvCqgmib1yZaagSGPYYm7313 bg9a1aNzZRf+rBqG2S22wa/258mmccPfVocr7f/Vcw/y9cArq4ycfw6lSIFkeMUy vAnpM/iNBN8Ch6iVOkcoadqQNsi+qynylCmTsPkAaYDzV4F/8XtSpyggj5gFC5Fq Woc+LKmIkp9KNf+4zIvbVOZ/HT44PsKhr1xFSsSKy4n/3t1N9Y68u85A+Hg/ZCSd YZq1d9Ci4gkcyD3MWnz/EuPAXYC83DQt8B3tBJBJZRmfVytkP2L+543dEUfOXERZ IQwwuR+MyfDUvVE5pK656tIiXw48hw== =2BqN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Apr 2 13:08:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CAA3A136B; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:08:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.123.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <158585811816.26641.249532267918234026@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 13:08:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 20:08:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) Authors : Max Pritikin Michael C. Richardson Toerless Eckert Michael H. Behringer Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40.txt Pages : 122 Date : 2020-04-02 Abstract: This document specifies automated bootstrapping of an Autonomic Control Plane. To do this a Secure Key Infrastructure is bootstrapped. This is done using manufacturer-installed X.509 certificates, in combination with a manufacturer's authorizing service, both online and offline. We call this process the Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructure (BRSKI) protocol. Bootstrapping a new device can occur using a routable address and a cloud service, or using only link-local connectivity, or on limited/ disconnected networks. Support for deployment models with less stringent security requirements is included. Bootstrapping is complete when the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is successfully deployed to the device. The established secure connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the device as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 2 16:37:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B693A00D5; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:35:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert , tte+ietf@cs.fau.de X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.123.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Warren Kumari Message-ID: <158587054627.26422.18390523871008166948@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:35:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Warren Kumari's Yes on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 23:35:47 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Thu Apr 2 18:56:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A355A3A0BB3; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 18:56:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert , tte+ietf@cs.fau.de X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.123.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158587897464.26434.15420396933429472759@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 18:56:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 01:56:15 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for putting in all the work to get this over the finish line! I did a final read-through before entering my YES, which produced some non-blocking comments. Section 5.1 The signatures in the certificate MUST be validated even if a signing nit: just "signature" singular? Section 5.2 assertion: The pledge indicates support for the mechanism described in this document, by putting the value "proximity" in the voucher- request, and MUST include the "proximity-registrar-cert" field (below). Sorry if I asked this already, but is the "MUST include" only when the "proximity" assertion is used? The current text could be read that it applies always. Section 5.4 It's too bad we can't mention SCRAM in addition to Basic and Digest, but I guess that ship has sailed. Section 5.5 The voucher media type "application/voucher-cms+json" is defined in [RFC8366] and is also used for the registrar voucher-request. It is a JSON document that has been signed using a CMS structure. The registrar MUST sign the registrar voucher-request. [...] [...] [...] MASA impementations SHOULD anticipate future media types but of course will simply fail the request if those types are not yet known. I think these two paragraphs were originally next to each other but with the large amount of intervening text it seems like the transition could be improved. Section 5.5.2 A certificate chain is extracted from the Registrar's signed CMS container. This chain may be as short as a single End-Entity (I guess technically the CMS structure is an unordered set of certificates, not a chain, but we're using it as a chain so I don't mind this usage.) The MASA MAY use the highest certificate from the certificate chain that it received from the Registrar, as determined by MASA policy. A "highest certificate" is not a particularly common usage; "farthest in the chain from the end entity" might be more conventional. Section 5.5.3 As described in Section 5.5.2, the MASA has extracted Registrar's domain CA. This is used to validate the CMS signature ([RFC5652]) on the voucher-request. Normal PKIX revocation checking is assumed during voucher-request signature validation. This CA certificate MAY have Certificate Revocation List distribution points, or Online Certificate Status Protocol (OCSP) information ([RFC6960]). If they are present, the We could maybe wordsmith this a bit to only cover the case when the pinned-domain-cert is a CA cert (vs. end entity). Section 5.5.4 This section mentions that checking for the presence of id-kp-cmcRA in the registrar's cert protects the domain in some cases, but that protection is probably weakend in cases when the pinned-domain-cert is not the domain's root CA. That said, the failure mode is not catastrophic, since the registrar still has to authenticate to the MASA somehow, and the MASA logic can account for the different cases. Section 5.6 correct registrar, the pledge MUST NOT follow more than one redirection (3xx code) to another web origins. EST supports s/web origins/web origin/ Section 5.6.1 missing close parenthesis for "(according to local policy[...]" Section 5.8.2 The domainID is determined from the certificate chain associated with the pinned-domain-cert and is used to update the audit-log. Is it determined from the "chain associated with" or just the "pinned-domain-cert" itself? Section 7.1 Join Proxy: Provides proxy functionalities but is not involved in security considerations. The Join Proxy is not involved in crypto, as noted here, but could drop or delay traffic. Section 7.3 X.509 IDevID factory installed credential. New Entities without an X.509 IDevID credential MAY form the Section 5.2 request using the Section 5.5 format to ensure the pledge's serial number information is provided to the registrar (this includes the IDevID AuthorityKeyIdentifier value, which would be statically configured on the pledge.) The pledge MAY refuse to provide a It's not entirely clear to me why "(this includes the IDevID AuthorityKeyIdentifier value" holds (it's not in the idevid-issuer, I think), but if it's clear to others that's fine. Section 9.1.1 full sales channel integration where Domain Owners need to be positively identified by TLS Client Certicate pinned, or HTTP I'm not sure if this was intended to be "by a pinned TLS Client Certificate" or "by the pinned-domain-cert". Section 10.3 It looks like the second paragraph may be an editing remnant (copy of text being modified in the first paragraph). Section 11.6.2.1 I guess the vouchers created by an attacker with access to the MASA signing key would not necessarily be in the audit log, which is probably worth mentioning. Appendix B Discovery of registrar MAY also be performed with DNS-based service discovery by searching for the service "_brski- registrar._tcp.". In this case the domain "example.com" is discovered as described in [RFC6763] section 11 (Appendix A.2 suggests the use of DHCP parameters). Is there a mismatch between "" and "example.com"? 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262143A106E for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:01:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rl2svV7Gaja6 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 597603A1075 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30253897D; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5D3AA9; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 22:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Esko Dijk cc: Benjamin Kaduk , "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <600.1585687336@localhost> <5633.1585770340@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 02:01:41 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Esko Dijk wrote: > The current BRSKI text to me suggests that CA:TRUE is a requirement for > the pinned-domain-cert. But I'm okay with not having CA:TRUE for this > certificate, as you propose, in which case I think the BRSKI text needs > some minor updates on the wording. > For example, if it's just a Registrar cert with CA:FALSE and RA:TRUE > then it shouldn't be called a "domain CA" cert or "domain cert". > If the Registrar is not a CA, it does need to be a Registration > Authority (RA). (See Section 2.5.3 / 2.5.5 / 5.5.4 / > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6402#section-2.10 ) > So the requirement for the pinned cert is that it is either RA or CA. > (Both seems also possible to encode in the cert, although that seems > equivalent to a CA.) I think you that you are likely correct: every entry in a chain which is not the EE, has CA:TRUE, and the last one, is the Registrar which ought to have cmcRA set. If I were to locate a PKIX-lawyer hat, I would say that the Pledge SHOULD check this. Given that there is a strong desire to operate registrar's using only certificates obtained via ACME (LE), and it will be difficult to get cmcRA set... I don't know what to do here. We have written in the ACP document that a device SHOULD verify the cmcRA bit is set on any EST server that the device speaks to to renew it's certificate. Please note that I am saying "device" and not pledge! We did not insist on cmcRA be set in section 5.1, specifically because we didn't know if RA:TRUE was something we could insist upon here. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6JO/gACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWAzgf+IbcMtl64B06W+a6SdYzgJVuTAhNtRa4Fuz8GG+9QNekWU58y7OPgBqpE bsN51dulz44ljw+ULlNcB+rt7MYi/mSbjYOfp5E3Xx7RvXweJsK76tbLCT9D9av9 s8WHOl7WuS/QHItLOOvgZt0hVlgpmMBcoCIK55uTwTw6RlvpwYAgt6+gtsvvRtYN dZXYNPFXeQuuMT84eZMZxwaA4Gu0aHe21Hi561MuLCVzuXUgN8YSLrUXawJj2xKQ iQ0x9qrBzasZyNx6lN99bdygeb1BHDbz1qWXwYfmxSccg8CxSW/rYEY+wmvJbgZc 7DcISl7GjFFYJ+lEo9lcYSbE8yMcuQ== =aZuh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Apr 4 19:27:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F2123A10BF for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YkUXA3XLJGlJ for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 817E93A097C for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9A83897D; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 22:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF17AA9; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 22:27:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Panwei \(William\)" cc: "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <09dc16c096354052b399b1f6e75f3fb7@huawei.com> References: <4178.1583770121@localhost> <09dc16c096354052b399b1f6e75f3fb7@huawei.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] My comments about draft-richardson-anima-masa-considerations-02: X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 02:27:50 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Panwei (William) wrote: >> This is device has a single serial number. >> The point is that a device may not yet have a serial number, and it is possible >> to assign the serial number during this process. Or perhaps more to the >> point, the manufacturer step that a serial number is assigned, is the right >> time to deploy the private key. >> > [Wei] I think what needs to be explained is the distinct > characteristics of the serial number for the device. Maybe how it is > assigned is not important, but other aspects, such as what it is used > for, are important. So the readers can match the specific thing in > their implementation with the serial number you mean. I am not sure I know what are the important characteristics. For BRSKI, what is important is that the serial numbers found in the vouchers are unique within the scope of the key/PKI that signs the voucher. (So, different manufacturers can have overlapping serial numbers. A single manufacturer that has different product lines with different MASA PKI, such as described in section 3.2, can also overlap serial numbers) Nothing else matters. The serial numbers don't need to be monotonically increasing, don't need to dense, and don't even need to be numbers. I think it's convenient if they are; I think that I would use a counter which I'd encrypt, or maybe a seeded PRNG as many manufacturers don't want their serial numbers to show many units they have sold. Encoding it as base32 would seem like a good thing to me. BRSKI doesn't care about any of those details though. >> > pg 5: >> > Ongoing access to the root-CA is important, but not as critical as >> > access to the MASA key. >> >> >> > comment: >> > MASA key is not relevant with the IDevID three-tier PKI >> > infrastructure. So, does this sentence make sense here? >> >> This comment is about relative levels of access to the private keys. >> The key that the MASA uses to sign vouchers *needs* to be online. >> The root-CA for the IDevID PKI can be offline, locked in a vault (and >> guarded by Godzilla if you like). >> > [Wei] Two comments: > 1) Why ongoing access to the root CA is important? In the document it > is said the root-CA private key should be kept offline, so how to > ongoing access to the root-CA? The root-CA can be offline. The root-CA is needed in order to resign the intermediate CA(s), but this does not need to be done online. It can be done via some kind of key signing ceremony, depending upon the level security threat. It's okay if the root-CA is unavailable for a few weeks (maybe even months), as long as it the intermediate CA validity period does not run out. This is why one would typically resign or re-generate new intermediate CAs at their half-lifetime period. (Consider what one would do if the key signing ceremony needed people from across the world, and/or the primary HSM was located in Wuhan or Italy..!) Splitting up the root key via secret splitting means that the rootCA key can be recovered in a new location should there be a problem. > 2) This sentence seems inappropriate in this section. This section and > the upper-level section is talking about the device's IDevID. Suddenly > mentioning the MASA key doesn't make sense. I understand. I guess what I'm trying to do is contrast the differences in requirements. A single process will not satisfy both sets of requirements. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6JQh8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUgnQf9HmbYJ32VfxPmcO4WTa5Siw+Y3kGkD7TWwULufuBNG7lGlNIGWIOZbCMx ZecT0WjKjdIrvkNLhFFNTB7UG+OsFm/iQvDpz/IM8gJxTturpqkdM7OaoT9KfAMI upW7C5JrxINicOlp3ki+fj8H950bMSRhga9ajH9hmmgp7iivIf985rAq70gIGBFH 3CbePSRHrWlUF84I4y7FMufNYsxzYjaPp+6IURyitFPasyTUC91FrmY5/oZHpydZ Oa9yGvGfDL6io9sENDmeK0I9MU9HX5g8FzfTyRqYhZwaJG6l8RUZxgTm06gT4y6o vlCEP/y6ufxIcnsD4ttgpkXxv+ejiw== =nQj3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Apr 5 19:30:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726713A0BE7 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 19:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VJP6IXdzOMp2 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 19:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AE633A0BED for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 19:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3883897C; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49207A17; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:30:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Benjamin Kaduk cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <158587897464.26434.15420396933429472759@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <158587897464.26434.15420396933429472759@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 02:30:35 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Thank you Ben for the edits suggestions. I have implemented many of your minor edits in the XML. I will answer some of your questions later this week. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6KlD4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVhAAf+Opwe+dufqK/xPd3FJAA2S1znHKpqeFGA0ZzvcPJBCI4rZqJ3MO06OutV eGViGyYy0Sios7B7UwfHMMBszb0TGlzyaiFMskYUIQNEu37WzxTccn6i5tcd+u8+ X5B7HaVFDGiF4fKzo7V/ioq5FKsAlqRWgeqBPi/oUL+rFri0+SzKyiJPOEO1HvS1 ApAF+hb5Fu3ux4TxZHHf1jBHOyhhnsU/H7KBMbetJM5arG+z6r8Jv5p8vAL7vcBo Xh0BgY3kK2Vzo7PEzrs9XiASOmD717w49LFn0R5V9oOgLOULxGU/GIpcP3EgIWfh T6GRnlwjAOfY8xk5OoKFbcVnR6YGxQ== =6gbD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 6 04:19:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01A33A0EBD for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 04:19:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: iotconsultancy.nl X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cbf27de6-b182-4a6e-a6a6-08d7da1c56c0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Apr 2020 11:19:14.3881 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 58bbf628-15d2-46bc-820b-863b6774d44b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gDn4Frq5cQQC5UJv2og+9sBkZeoBca3iG+djAaqOvNBaeCdPluv+gTp0OY86whnJ4fkPJWdx1g3zkl4GaXjeHNxGGmKRzmzDC2Aa8KVmdjk= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5P190MB0500 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-39: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:19:22 -0000 SGVsbG8gTWljaGFlbCwNCg0KQ3VycmVudGx5IEJSU0tJIFNlY3Rpb24gNS41LjQgaGFzIHRoaXMg dGV4dDoNCg0KICAgVGhlIE1BU0EgTVVTVCB2ZXJpZnkgdGhhdCB0aGUgcmVnaXN0cmFyIHZvdWNo ZXItcmVxdWVzdCBpcyBzaWduZWQgYnkgYSByZWdpc3RyYXINCg0KSWYgdGhlIFJlZ2lzdHJhciB3 b3VsZCB1c2UgYSBub24tUkEgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgZS5nLiBBQ01FIChMRSkgc3RhbmRhcmQgRUUg Y2VydGlmaWNhdGUsIHRoZW4gaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCBpdCBjYW5ub3QgZ2V0IGFueXRoaW5nIGZy b20gTUFTQS4uLj8NCkFuZCBCUlNLSSB3b3VsZCBub3Qgd29yaz8NCg0KRXNrbw0KDQotLS0tLU9y aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogQW5pbWEgPGFuaW1hLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBNaWNoYWVsIFJpY2hhcmRzb24NClNlbnQ6IFN1bmRheSwgQXByaWwgNSwg MjAyMCAwNDowMQ0KVG86IEVza28gRGlqayA8ZXNrby5kaWprQGlvdGNvbnN1bHRhbmN5Lm5sPg0K Q2M6IEJlbmphbWluIEthZHVrIDxrYWR1a0BtaXQuZWR1PjsgYW5pbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFJlOiBbQW5pbWFdIEJlbmphbWluIEthZHVrJ3MgRGlzY3VzcyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWFu aW1hLWJvb3RzdHJhcHBpbmcta2V5aW5mcmEtMzk6ICh3aXRoIERJU0NVU1MgYW5kIENPTU1FTlQp DQoNCg0KRXNrbyBEaWprIDxlc2tvLmRpamtAaW90Y29uc3VsdGFuY3kubmw+IHdyb3RlOg0KICAg ID4gVGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgQlJTS0kgdGV4dCB0byBtZSBzdWdnZXN0cyB0aGF0IENBOlRSVUUgaXMg YSByZXF1aXJlbWVudCBmb3INCiAgICA+IHRoZSBwaW5uZWQtZG9tYWluLWNlcnQuIEJ1dCBJJ20g b2theSB3aXRoIG5vdCBoYXZpbmcgQ0E6VFJVRSBmb3IgdGhpcw0KICAgID4gY2VydGlmaWNhdGUs IGFzIHlvdSBwcm9wb3NlLCBpbiB3aGljaCBjYXNlIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIEJSU0tJIHRleHQgbmVl ZHMNCiAgICA+IHNvbWUgbWlub3IgdXBkYXRlcyBvbiB0aGUgd29yZGluZy4NCg0KICAgID4gRm9y IGV4YW1wbGUsIGlmIGl0J3MganVzdCBhIFJlZ2lzdHJhciBjZXJ0IHdpdGggQ0E6RkFMU0UgYW5k IFJBOlRSVUUNCiAgICA+IHRoZW4gaXQgc2hvdWxkbid0IGJlIGNhbGxlZCBhICJkb21haW4gQ0Ei IGNlcnQgb3IgImRvbWFpbiBjZXJ0Ii4NCg0KICAgID4gSWYgdGhlIFJlZ2lzdHJhciBpcyBub3Qg YSBDQSwgaXQgZG9lcyBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGEgUmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uDQogICAgPiBBdXRob3JpdHkg KFJBKS4gKFNlZSBTZWN0aW9uIDIuNS4zIC8gMi41LjUgLyA1LjUuNCAvDQogICAgPiBodHRwczov L3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvcmZjNjQwMiNzZWN0aW9uLTIuMTAgKQ0KDQogICAgPiBTbyB0 aGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQgZm9yIHRoZSBwaW5uZWQgY2VydCBpcyB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIGVpdGhlciBS QSBvciBDQS4NCiAgICA+IChCb3RoIHNlZW1zIGFsc28gcG9zc2libGUgdG8gZW5jb2RlIGluIHRo ZSBjZXJ0LCBhbHRob3VnaCB0aGF0IHNlZW1zDQogICAgPiBlcXVpdmFsZW50IHRvIGEgQ0EuKQ0K DQpJIHRoaW5rIHlvdSB0aGF0IHlvdSBhcmUgbGlrZWx5IGNvcnJlY3Q6IGV2ZXJ5IGVudHJ5IGlu IGEgY2hhaW4gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90DQp0aGUgRUUsIGhhcyBDQTpUUlVFLCBhbmQgdGhlIGxhc3Qg b25lLCBpcyB0aGUgUmVnaXN0cmFyIHdoaWNoIG91Z2h0IHRvIGhhdmUNCmNtY1JBIHNldC4NCg0K SWYgSSB3ZXJlIHRvIGxvY2F0ZSBhIFBLSVgtbGF3eWVyIGhhdCwgSSB3b3VsZCBzYXkgdGhhdCB0 aGUgUGxlZGdlIFNIT1VMRA0KY2hlY2sgdGhpcy4gICBHaXZlbiB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgc3Ry b25nIGRlc2lyZSB0byBvcGVyYXRlIHJlZ2lzdHJhcidzDQp1c2luZyBvbmx5IGNlcnRpZmljYXRl cyBvYnRhaW5lZCB2aWEgQUNNRSAoTEUpLCBhbmQgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8NCmdl dCBjbWNSQSBzZXQuLi4gSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IHdoYXQgdG8gZG8gaGVyZS4NCiAgPFBsZWFzZSBp bnNlcnQgbG9uZyBFTVUgVGhyZWFkIGhlcmU+DQoNCldlIGhhdmUgd3JpdHRlbiBpbiB0aGUgQUNQ IGRvY3VtZW50IHRoYXQgYSBkZXZpY2UgU0hPVUxEIHZlcmlmeSB0aGUgY21jUkEgYml0DQppcyBz ZXQgb24gYW55IEVTVCBzZXJ2ZXIgdGhhdCB0aGUgZGV2aWNlIHNwZWFrcyB0byB0byByZW5ldyBp dCdzIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlLg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IEkgYW0gc2F5aW5nICJkZXZpY2Ui IGFuZCBub3QgcGxlZGdlIQ0KV2UgZGlkIG5vdCBpbnNpc3Qgb24gY21jUkEgYmUgc2V0IGluIHNl Y3Rpb24gNS4xLCBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHkgYmVjYXVzZSB3ZQ0KZGlkbid0IGtub3cgaWYgUkE6VFJV RSB3YXMgc29tZXRoaW5nIHdlIGNvdWxkIGluc2lzdCB1cG9uIGhlcmUuDQoNCi0tDQpNaWNoYWVs IFJpY2hhcmRzb24gPG1jcitJRVRGQHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYT4sIFNhbmRlbG1hbiBTb2Z0d2FyZSBX b3Jrcw0KIC09IElQdjYgSW9UIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgPS0NCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Apr 7 00:10:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634353A17E4 for ; 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Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:09:51 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99ER6MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.65) by DEFTHW99ER8MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.73) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.468.0; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:09:51 +0200 Received: from DENBGAT9EM4MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.11.5]) by DEFTHW99ER6MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.22.70.65]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:09:51 +0200 From: "Fries, Steffen" To: Toerless Eckert , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots Thread-Index: AQHWAvtAlepS1osYFkCPs7vspKj1FKhahnpwgBLKIQA= Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 07:09:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200325231348.GA23752@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [139.22.70.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 07:10:06 -0000 Hi Toerless, Just to be sure I did not miss anything, is the schedule for the meeting on= Thursday already fixed? I haven't seen an update, yet.=20 Do you collect the slides in advance for the meeting? Best regards Steffen > -----Original Message----- > From: Anima On Behalf Of [ext] Fries, Steffen > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. M=E4rz 2020 09:14 > To: Toerless Eckert ; anima@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timesl= ots >=20 > Hi Toerless, >=20 > Based on the submitted update of the draft on BRSKI-AE, I would like to = give > a status update on the document and also ask for WG adoption. >=20 > Name of time slot: BRSKI-AE Updates > Name of draft(s): draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 > Time requested: 10-15 min > Presenter name(s): Steffen Fries >=20 > Best regards > Steffen >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anima On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. M=E4rz 2020 00:14 > > To: anima@ietf.org > > Subject: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for > > timeslots > > > > I have scheduled an ANIMA interim for 04/09/2020, 8 AM PDT (1500 UTC), > > via webex. > > > > Please re-send requests for slots, i will poll those with existing WG > > drafts to see if they think an update is appropriate. > > > > Not yet scheduled by secretariat, visible here: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim/pending > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Anima mailing list > > Anima@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Tue Apr 7 00:50:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856973A187E; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 00:50:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwJRF2c6mPUj; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 00:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ADA43A187C; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 00:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AAA6E969C1B512DF9EB7; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:49:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.221) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:49:59 +0100 Received: from fraeml737-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.218) by fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:49:58 +0200 Received: from fraeml737-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.218]) by fraeml737-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.218]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:49:58 +0200 From: Xun Xiao To: Toerless Eckert CC: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" , Artur Hecker , "Liubing (Leo)" , Zoran Despotovic , Sheng Jiang Thread-Topic: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots Thread-Index: AQHWAvtYSWEt4vkGL0ur+VV5Lx+eU6htW6+w Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 07:49:58 +0000 Message-ID: <74472f9d88f64e5292e19efb1c26310b@huawei.com> References: <20200325231348.GA23752@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20200325231348.GA23752@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.210.165.213] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 07:50:03 -0000 Dear Toerless and ANIMA-chairs, We would also like to have a 5-min time slot on the virtual meeting to prov= ide a short briefing about our draft. We will send you our slides shortly. = Thanks. Best, Xun Xiao -----Original Message----- From: Anima [mailto:anima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:14 AM To: anima@ietf.org Subject: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots I have scheduled an ANIMA interim for 04/09/2020, 8 AM PDT (1500 UTC), via = webex. Please re-send requests for slots, i will poll those with existing WG draft= s to see if they think an update is appropriate. Not yet scheduled by secretariat, visible here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim/pending Cheers Toerless _______________________________________________ Anima mailing list Anima@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Tue Apr 7 06:34:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431D13A09DB; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:34:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: Sheng Jiang , jiangsheng@huawei.com, anima@ietf.org, evyncke@cisco.com, anima-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane@ietf.org Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <158626647181.20587.3914490319369406246@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:34:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:34:32 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG (anima) to consider the following document: - 'An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-04-21. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract Autonomic functions need a control plane to communicate, which depends on some addressing and routing. This Autonomic Control Plane should ideally be self-managing, and as independent as possible of configuration. This document defines such a plane and calls it the "Autonomic Control Plane", with the primary use as a control plane for autonomic functions. It also serves as a "virtual out-of-band channel" for Operations, Administration and Management (OAM) communications over a network that provides automatically configured hop-by-hop authenticated and encrypted communications via automatically configured IPv6 even when the network is not configured, or misconfigured. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ From nobody Tue Apr 7 07:54:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31B13A0C06; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 07:54:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=F7O1r9f2; 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Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:54:53 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: "last-call@ietf.org" , IETF-Announce CC: Sheng Jiang , "anima@ietf.org" , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Why a 2nd Last Call ? Re: Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard Thread-Index: AQHWDOx+lc4BV6fNx0G5W/ItI5kPrw== Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:54:52 +0000 Message-ID: <431513E0-898B-487A-BFA0-91AFBFFCAD19@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:4828:6390:f5a3:8366] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6ab9906b-77e7-4601-b22d-08d7db03a115 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1897: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 036614DD9C x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(5660300002)(6506007)(86362001)(36756003)(53546011)(33656002)(110136005)(54906003)(966005)(478600001)(316002)(2906002)(76116006)(4326008)(66946007)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(186003)(91956017)(6486002)(66446008)(8936002)(8676002)(81156014)(81166006)(71200400001)(6512007)(2616005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: DufaPvBU0XXkbYxelAh/6uY4ZqeZdFicWb3+/RqfmBOCpyDoL//w+ff/4Pzz8zE70YhnqDXgjrEm9/qtUp4K1UjD2JtGjfSIYqZ9M2R4ndZcDgIel7M1R9AtqPQf05tPFILNgL07gffyUW93lUYp9J39d9qIcqebb8PCYx4vMZawiII7koE7Xl5xXR0YU95MhYfHMo93Ss0qpUxsQKQsmg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1EF019CC5066CE439E2629323F8111E3@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6ab9906b-77e7-4601-b22d-08d7db03a115 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Apr 2020 14:54:52.8723 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: PcG4lah510VtgEhQ+iSCZV+tOEvKeek3fZX4HhzOVnVec3FPdrGf/PtCB+mI7oNeXIjc1vxjLlTrlen1m4yVKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1897 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Why a 2nd Last Call ? Re: Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 14:54:58 -0000 CQ0KVGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIElFVEYgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9uIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2FzIGluIEZl YnJ1YXJ5IDIwMTggZm9yIHJldmlzaW9uIC0xMy4gU2luY2UgdGhlbiwgdGhlIGF1dGhvcnMgaGF2 ZSBtYWRlIHN1YnN0YW50aXZlIGNoYW5nZXMgaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCB3ZSBhcmUgbm93 IGF0IHJldmlzaW9uIC0yNC4gVGhlIGF1dGhvcnMgYW5kIG15c2VsZiBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhl IGRvY3VtZW50IGlzIHJlYWR5IGZvciBJRVNHIGV2YWx1YXRpb24gYnV0IEksIGFzIHRoZSBzaGVw aGVyZGluZyBBRCwgY29uc2lkZXIgdGhhdCB0aGUgYW1vdW50IG9mIGNoYW5nZXMgcmVxdWlyZXMg YSBuZXcgSUVURiBMYXN0IENhbGwuDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldyBhbmQgdGhh bmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBhbmQgdGhlIFdHIGZvciB0aGUgZWZmb3J0cyBwdXQgaW4g dGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudA0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMNCg0KLcOpcmljIHZ5bmNrZQ0KDQrvu78tLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogPGllc2ctc2VjcmV0YXJ5QGlldGYub3JnPiBv biBiZWhhbGYgb2YgVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2ctc2VjcmV0YXJ5QGlldGYub3JnPg0KUmVwbHktVG86 ICJsYXN0LWNhbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxsYXN0LWNhbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpEYXRlOiBUdWVzZGF5 LCA3IEFwcmlsIDIwMjAgYXQgMTU6MzUNClRvOiBJRVRGLUFubm91bmNlIDxpZXRmLWFubm91bmNl QGlldGYub3JnPg0KQ2M6IFNoZW5nIEppYW5nIDxqaWFuZ3NoZW5nQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+LCAiamlh bmdzaGVuZ0BodWF3ZWkuY29tIiA8amlhbmdzaGVuZ0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPiwgImFuaW1hQGlldGYu b3JnIiA8YW5pbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmc+LCBFcmljIFZ5bmNrZSA8ZXZ5bmNrZUBjaXNjby5jb20+LCAi YW5pbWEtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnIiA8YW5pbWEtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPiwgImRyYWZ0LWll dGYtYW5pbWEtYXV0b25vbWljLWNvbnRyb2wtcGxhbmVAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWFu aW1hLWF1dG9ub21pYy1jb250cm9sLXBsYW5lQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogTGFzdCBDYWxs OiA8ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hbmltYS1hdXRvbm9taWMtY29udHJvbC1wbGFuZS0yNC50eHQ+IChBbiBB dXRvbm9taWMgQ29udHJvbCBQbGFuZSAoQUNQKSkgdG8gUHJvcG9zZWQgU3RhbmRhcmQNCg0KICAg IA0KICAgIFRoZSBJRVNHIGhhcyByZWNlaXZlZCBhIHJlcXVlc3QgZnJvbSB0aGUgQXV0b25vbWlj IE5ldHdvcmtpbmcgSW50ZWdyYXRlZA0KICAgIE1vZGVsIGFuZCBBcHByb2FjaCBXRyAoYW5pbWEp IHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgZG9jdW1lbnQ6IC0gJ0FuDQogICAgQXV0b25vbWlj IENvbnRyb2wgUGxhbmUgKEFDUCknDQogICAgICA8ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hbmltYS1hdXRvbm9taWMt Y29udHJvbC1wbGFuZS0yNC50eHQ+IGFzIFByb3Bvc2VkIFN0YW5kYXJkDQogICAgDQogICAgVGhl IElFU0cgcGxhbnMgdG8gbWFrZSBhIGRlY2lzaW9uIGluIHRoZSBuZXh0IGZldyB3ZWVrcywgYW5k IHNvbGljaXRzIGZpbmFsDQogICAgY29tbWVudHMgb24gdGhpcyBhY3Rpb24uIFBsZWFzZSBzZW5k IHN1YnN0YW50aXZlIGNvbW1lbnRzIHRvIHRoZQ0KICAgIGxhc3QtY2FsbEBpZXRmLm9yZyBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3RzIGJ5IDIwMjAtMDQtMjEuIEV4Y2VwdGlvbmFsbHksIGNvbW1lbnRzIG1heQ0KICAg IGJlIHNlbnQgdG8gaWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZyBpbnN0ZWFkLiBJbiBlaXRoZXIgY2FzZSwgcGxlYXNl IHJldGFpbiB0aGUgYmVnaW5uaW5nDQogICAgb2YgdGhlIFN1YmplY3QgbGluZSB0byBhbGxvdyBh dXRvbWF0ZWQgc29ydGluZy4NCiAgICANCiAgICBBYnN0cmFjdA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgICAg IEF1dG9ub21pYyBmdW5jdGlvbnMgbmVlZCBhIGNvbnRyb2wgcGxhbmUgdG8gY29tbXVuaWNhdGUs IHdoaWNoDQogICAgICAgZGVwZW5kcyBvbiBzb21lIGFkZHJlc3NpbmcgYW5kIHJvdXRpbmcuICBU aGlzIEF1dG9ub21pYyBDb250cm9sIFBsYW5lDQogICAgICAgc2hvdWxkIGlkZWFsbHkgYmUgc2Vs Zi1tYW5hZ2luZywgYW5kIGFzIGluZGVwZW5kZW50IGFzIHBvc3NpYmxlIG9mDQogICAgICAgY29u ZmlndXJhdGlvbi4gIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGVmaW5lcyBzdWNoIGEgcGxhbmUgYW5kIGNhbGxz IGl0IHRoZQ0KICAgICAgICJBdXRvbm9taWMgQ29udHJvbCBQbGFuZSIsIHdpdGggdGhlIHByaW1h cnkgdXNlIGFzIGEgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZQ0KICAgICAgIGZvciBhdXRvbm9taWMgZnVuY3Rpb25z LiAgSXQgYWxzbyBzZXJ2ZXMgYXMgYSAidmlydHVhbCBvdXQtb2YtYmFuZA0KICAgICAgIGNoYW5u ZWwiIGZvciBPcGVyYXRpb25zLCBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdGlvbiBhbmQgTWFuYWdlbWVudCAoT0FNKQ0K ICAgICAgIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIG92ZXIgYSBuZXR3b3JrIHRoYXQgcHJvdmlkZXMgYXV0b21h dGljYWxseSBjb25maWd1cmVkDQogICAgICAgaG9wLWJ5LWhvcCBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGVkIGFuZCBl bmNyeXB0ZWQgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMgdmlhDQogICAgICAgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSBjb25maWd1 cmVkIElQdjYgZXZlbiB3aGVuIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGlzIG5vdA0KICAgICAgIGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQs IG9yIG1pc2NvbmZpZ3VyZWQuDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgVGhlIGZpbGUg Y2FuIGJlIG9idGFpbmVkIHZpYQ0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9j L2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtYW5pbWEtYXV0b25vbWljLWNvbnRyb2wtcGxhbmUvDQogICAgDQogICAgSUVT RyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGNhbiBiZSB0cmFja2VkIHZpYQ0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIu aWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtYW5pbWEtYXV0b25vbWljLWNvbnRyb2wtcGxhbmUvYmFs bG90Lw0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgSVBSIERlY2xhcmF0aW9ucyBtYXkgYmUgcmVs YXRlZCB0byB0aGlzIEktRDoNCiAgICANCiAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYu b3JnL2lwci8yNDA3Lw0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0K DQo= From nobody Tue Apr 7 08:14:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC893A0C44 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ENAARblm1HHe for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEF1D3A0C66 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15530548015 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:13:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 0B678440040; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:13:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 17:13:53 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200407151353.GA13319@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA interrim: please upload your slides yourself! X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:14:12 -0000 Dear WG, presenters: Please upload the slides you propose for thursdays ANIMA interrim yourself! Instructions: a) If you do not already have, create an account on datatracker.ietf.org On the of the datatracker home page, there is a slider "User", use "New Account", follow instructions. b) When you are logged in, instead of "User", the slider will show your email. Go to: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima There will be a "Propose Slides" button, follow instructions. Please use title that is/includes either Title or name of draft discused, if proposal for non-draft related topic, add (no draft) to title. Thank you very much Toerless From nobody Tue Apr 7 16:14:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10B93A07A3; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 16:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id omax0mx5Mmug; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 16:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4404E3A07A5; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 16:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C5073897B; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB065F5; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Eric Vyncke \(evyncke\)" , "last-call\@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane\@ietf.org" , "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <431513E0-898B-487A-BFA0-91AFBFFCAD19@cisco.com> References: <431513E0-898B-487A-BFA0-91AFBFFCAD19@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Why a 2nd Last Call ? Re: Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 23:14:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eric Vyncke \(evyncke\) wrote: > The previous IETF Last Call on this document was in February 2018 for > revision -13. Since then, the authors have made substantive changes in > the document and we are now at revision -24. The authors and myself > believe that the document is ready for IESG evaluation but I, as the > shepherding AD, consider that the amount of changes requires a new IETF > Last Call. I have read the latest document, and I am happy with the result. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6NCTkACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWDZwgAhG5npACD88OgbUSsM+5C+HKoxZl7A5juuLa6SITw4UIOaNyUZnPDZuWd E6vpEkBmZtD6wbJL+6DWT3Z1id/+fMghr9bfXvn7wXnVNqvEX6Q9hI3proxIjAzs qOnfPB7O0DY12xtae6hxruzlfNu66Jl9PP3SZjBSfHdqrnv2F31r6L7/iZuYykxI W3QQFgTnCNFSAV9nPWD9IpLgGKmlQDYL+tdLey0+h+SH5vQaezGOlTsBwGby1xjd 2hrC45AfIYP3pE5/0v7tEjiqt29XlPMcm5Vv7cesOo+oDdE4KV0UEVn9QHt5lA+q gIssRv47V02pQtJwrWSByv5HAFfqdg== =fBOS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 18:19:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA733A02BD for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:19:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: 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ESMTP id C90AE102289D for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 01:19:12 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 01:19:12 +0000 (GMT) From: ANIMA Working Group Reply-To: anima-chairs@ietf.org To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <1029846313.10807501586308752822.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd101.webex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2161409_2068677738.1586308752821" X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal X-WBX-INFO: X-WBX-SID=456680, X-WBX-CID=157915495770631589, X-WBX-TID=50y32zbp34dd1g6pn7yjw1k95soyfu307t4bnnp7pyfcw0b3sop5n8s2, X-WBX-RID=baae7b6e03214da4bacbf3c32d7c5d00, X-WBX-SVC:Meeting Center, X-WBX-TT:Meeting Invitation, Date:Wed Apr 08 01:19:12 GMT 2020 reminder-40.1.1-4 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Webex meeting invitation: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual meeting 1 (Webex) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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Hi Chairs,

 <= /p>

On the datatracker webpag= e, it is said that ANIMA meeting is 2020-04-09 15:00 =A8C 17:00 UTC. But th= is WebEx meeting notification shows it is 13:00 =A8C 15:00 UTC.

I=A1=AFd like to double c= heck which one is right.

 <= /p>

Regards & Thanks!

= =C5=CB=CE=B0 Wei Pan

= =BB=AA=CE=AA=BC=BC=CA=F5=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.

 <= /p>

-----Original Appointment-----
From: ANIMA Working Group [mailto:anima-chairs@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 9:19 AM
To: anima@ietf.org
Subject: [Anima] Webex meeting invitation: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual m= eeting 1 (Webex)
When: 2020=C4=EA4=D4=C29=C8=D5=D0=C7=C6=DA=CB=C4 6:00-8:00America/Los_Angeles=A1=A3
Where: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm378d8c28c45a9f78686= 8c586138a0450

 

ANIMA Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting.

 

 

Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982

 

Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392

 

 

Thursday, April 9, 2020

6:00 am | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Ca= nada) | 2 hrs

 

 

Join meeting

 

 

Join by phone

Tap to call in from a mobile device (attendees o= nly)

1-650-479-32= 08 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

1-877-668-4493<= /span> Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)

Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions

 

 

Join from a video system or application

Dial 614444982@ietf.webex.com

You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your m= eeting number.

 

 

Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype fo= r Business

Dial 614444982.ietf@lync.webex.com

Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com

 

--_000_0b4232ff7da844d7b3f86f8e5d3324bahuaweicom_-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 18:41:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11E23A03FF for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:41:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N9ElMXDLkdZ4 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6ADA3A03F4 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4934548045 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:41:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id AD8FB440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:41:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:41:16 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408014116.GA9694@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] FYI: Pls fix: Wrong webex for anima interim created by datatracker X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 01:41:26 -0000 Dear secretariat (if not right recipient for thi, pls. tell me who) Cc: wgchairs, maybe someone listening here knows how to fix this. FYI: anima for the group wondering why they got a new webex invite. I just noticed, that the webex listed on datatracker for the virtual ANIMA meeting is wrong, e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima Shows a webex URL of https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m16f8e0d12f6d12c3c37984c73f20efb8 which is not a valid IETF webex URL and i fear it wouldn't work (it gives weird info when i now click on it). [ Expanation ? I did create the virtual meeting request simply through the standard datatracker page designated for it. The only way how i can explain this wrong creation of the webex meeting information is that datatracker, when automatically creating the webex session through my browser somehow used another personal webex account i have (somewhere in the webex cookies on my browsers ?) instead of the anima WG chair webex account, and therefore choose the wrong webex server. Obviously, i had to be logged into datatracker with my anima chair account to even create the interrim, so even though this is the only explanation i can bring up, it doesn't make sense to me either. ] In any case. As a poor double victim of weird webex account management, i would like to ask: If possible, please fix the webex URLs and dialin info for the virtual ANIMA meeting on datatracker (above URL) to a correct ietf webex that i have just created for the purpose. Otherwise, folks might simply go to the datatracker page, click on the webex and end up nowhere. Here is the correct webex info: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual meeting 1 (Webex) Thursday, April 9, 2020 6:00 am | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) | 2 hrs Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 When it's time, join the meeting. https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 Thank you so much Toerless -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Apr 7 19:03:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34833A0474 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:03:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnExYVTSMbaJ for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjmda13.webex.com (sjmda13.webex.com [64.68.124.151]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9396F3A046E for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rva2rmd102.webex.com (sjc02-wxpd-lb03-v140.webex.com [10.252.16.111]) by sjmda13.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0D53020517 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:03:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rva2rmd102.webex.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rva2rmd102.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B9A1022107 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:03:42 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:03:42 +0000 (GMT) From: ANIMA Working Group Reply-To: anima-chairs@ietf.org To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <390587531.6471201586311422476.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd102.webex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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XG4JCQk8L3RhYmxlPlxuCQk8L3RkPlxuCTwvdHI+XG48L3RhYmxlPlxuDQpTVU1NQVJZOklFVEYg MjAyMCBBTklNQSB2aXJ0dWFsIG1lZXRpbmcgMSAoV2ViZXgpDQpQUklPUklUWTo1DQpDTEFTUzpQ VUJMSUMNCkJFR0lOOlZBTEFSTQ0KVFJJR0dFUjotUFQxNU0NCkFDVElPTjpESVNQTEFZDQpERVND UklQVElPTjpSZW1pbmRlcg0KRU5EOlZBTEFSTQ0KRU5EOlZFVkVOVA0KRU5EOlZDQUxFTkRBUg0K ------=_Part_1294208_2069735998.1586311422475-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 19:08:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979DD3A0474; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:08:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_HEX=0.1] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AbzCvn8j4tq6; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88E813A0484; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6D5548045; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:08:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 2FE99440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:08:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:08:01 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Panwei (William)" Cc: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200408020801.GA32272@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <1029846313.10807501586308752822.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd101.webex.com> <0b4232ff7da844d7b3f86f8e5d3324ba@huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0b4232ff7da844d7b3f86f8e5d3324ba@huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Webex meeting invitation: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual meeting 1 (Webex) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 02:08:11 -0000 Thank you so much for noting, Panwei. I just fixed the webex and the updated webex was sent to the WG. I can check however much i want to transfer dates correctly, and calculate time zone offsets correctly, but this always happens to me over and over. So sorry. Cheers Toerless On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:39:21AM +0000, Panwei (William) wrote: > Hi Chairs, > > On the datatracker webpage, it is said that ANIMA meeting is 2020-04-09 15:00 ?C 17:00 UTC. But this WebEx meeting notification shows it is 13:00 ?C 15:00 UTC. > I??d like to double check which one is right. > > Regards & Thanks! > ???? Wei Pan > ???????????????? Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > -----Original Appointment----- > From: ANIMA Working Group [mailto:anima-chairs@ietf.org] > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 9:19 AM > To: anima@ietf.org > Subject: [Anima] Webex meeting invitation: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual meeting 1 (Webex) > When: 2020??4??9???????? 6:00-8:00America/Los_Angeles?? > Where: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 > > > ANIMA Working Group invites you to join this Webex meeting. > > > > > Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 > > > Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 > > > > > Thursday, April 9, 2020 > > 6:00 am | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) | 2 hrs > > > > > Join meeting > > > > > > Join by phone > > Tap to call in from a mobile device (attendees only) > > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) > > Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions > > > > > Join from a video system or application > > Dial 614444982@ietf.webex.com<%20sip:614444982@ietf.webex.com> > > You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. > > > > > Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business > > Dial 614444982.ietf@lync.webex.com<%20sip:614444982.ietf@lync.webex.com> > > > Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Apr 7 19:15:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F7D3A0529; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YP4BbRs12V1w; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1042.google.com (mail-pj1-x1042.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1042]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 579AA3A0522; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1042.google.com with SMTP id n4so549018pjp.1; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 19:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eNFIY5hplG9NRb5DVKF+e28VXE7+0uvcMtd4Ak4mvuY=; b=RJYUEZgvTZ8niupf9AjVLPk0d/Ev89lepa3JV5vODY18oEggzkvCYlJC/AnFTNnpEk Aazj7GFtMJzsAhoS2fTM9cfDNZ5n10TLdnJE5j8emW8xO5fDNBySyWAcXUBuTRN2fPol m8kPYfkRzdK1gm4uuxwuGM0/s16YAtT87VNlOGE72f6cYI3N3fkJ+Vu2B3jhzNWdRELv O5BYFSNBuR8RZL1B10xIXk/JH6jCP57hU1ug+6ZnJrvdW3hPhwx6fC+BQohXJZ865hCu 9FdW+0SEOuEeBW2PfJnyGtVPoxkJrrOL9cMYVkdvvoxdEpchPIxx/wgbFgZKHaYRzgLk RC5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eNFIY5hplG9NRb5DVKF+e28VXE7+0uvcMtd4Ak4mvuY=; b=YHMW13ZYbVKhamLn1Svw2QW5qmeCgyjzoJCB5WnIzqFkbN3CKTn5VYrYsAHSjrbhkt Bjw+h1rtC7/0wyNqD+DjKorJTIDSYjCgyroZDxZGcSIne5jXBQK2apwzyy7MbsvgPntH ccyHuG2PQTT6zFwdr1UFW0uDGUrcXeoT43rgxSCJTemtCdUpi2G7/nx3jInA73COLlT3 upxhT4xQFBX8bKANpQTAfbId/LIiumjExMnH+Uqp+jlTVgMK/LHSVm76kdNrxYmVSHYk hUYk59kgvJVjdjwHSDYIRf0T6kYzcTuJhSPuvV1pSPE8Hnns194WJaHVqB8fL2DsOo3d pgAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaRFDD/13xPOBik0PWpExOQHn/aC5FZSh3pzjWJKUab16mzZz73 OO20bn3Dz40zd+KysvtEDLo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ+wP/KSdoUZ2xFyUyKbfYPM6q+GGRs9sMPyk/tfjFCDHBtAcGwYNwmaaCW7RX1HKajtmY8vA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1b4f:: with SMTP id q73mr2312020pjq.188.1586312109589; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 19:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 25sm2859613pjg.35.2020.04.07.19.15.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Apr 2020 19:15:08 -0700 (PDT) To: last-call@ietf.org Cc: anima-chairs@ietf.org, evyncke@cisco.com, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, jiangsheng@huawei.com References: <158626647181.20587.3914490319369406246@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:15:03 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <158626647181.20587.3914490319369406246@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 02:15:18 -0000 I have looked carefully at the diffs since the previous Last Call for this document and I believe that they all represent improvements. Obviously it's a very complex document and I have no doubt there will be future changes in the light of experience, but from my point of view it meets the requirements for a Proposed Standard (assuming normal copy-editing). Specifically I've checked the parts that concern GRASP, as an author of the approved draft-ietf-anima-grasp-15, and they are correct in my opinion. In particular, I coded a demonstration of the two GRASP objectives defined in this draft a couple of years ago, showing that those definitions were correct and implementable. I have retested this demo today. Code at: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/ACPcontainer.py https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/ACPnewby.py Regards Brian Carpenter On 08-Apr-20 01:34, The IESG wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Autonomic Networking Integrated > Model and Approach WG (anima) to consider the following document: - 'An > Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)' > as Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final > comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-04-21. Exceptionally, comments may > be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning > of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > Autonomic functions need a control plane to communicate, which > depends on some addressing and routing. This Autonomic Control Plane > should ideally be self-managing, and as independent as possible of > configuration. This document defines such a plane and calls it the > "Autonomic Control Plane", with the primary use as a control plane > for autonomic functions. It also serves as a "virtual out-of-band > channel" for Operations, Administration and Management (OAM) > communications over a network that provides automatically configured > hop-by-hop authenticated and encrypted communications via > automatically configured IPv6 even when the network is not > configured, or misconfigured. > > > > > The file can be obtained via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane/ballot/ > > The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2407/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Tue Apr 7 20:12:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6AB3A0915 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.65 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwFAlD3O9xx2 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A08E3A090F for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A7B548045 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id F0D60440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:11:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:11:55 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408031155.GA19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Agenda/Logistics for ANIMA virtual interrim 04/09, 15:00 - 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:12:03 -0000 Crisp short agenda for now, so if anyone has to propose more, please bring it up. This is also on the etherpad, so if you want to propose more , just add it at the end of the agenda on Etherpad. If you can not attend due to Time Zone issues, but would like something to be said about some work of yours (or anything else), pls. feel free to send email to the chairs and we can bring it in front of the WG. For those on the agenda, pls. upload your slides. I sent an email for the non-WG chairs how to do it, else send slides to the chairs. Logistics: ========== What: ANIMA 107 Virtual Interim 1 When: 15:00 - 17:00 UTC Thursday, April 9, 2020 Where: Webex Available During Session: Jabber: xmpp:anima@jabber.ietf.org?join Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 ICal: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mdbc29b738629ddb4e001aaf3448455a2 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at the bottom on the Etherpad page here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to enter/leave) WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info), also chair slides JOIN BY WEBEX: URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 Available Post Session: Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/anima Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-anima Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima Agenda ====== Administrivia - scribes, minutes, rules, introduction of our new AD, etc. Toerless / Sheng 15 minutes BRSKI status / update Michael Richardson draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 20 minutes ACP status / update Toerless Eckert draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 20 minutes Support of asynchronous Enrollment in BRSKI draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 Owen Friel 15 minutes Intent Distribution draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-00 Xun Xiao 15 min Anything else / Open Mic ? From nobody Tue Apr 7 20:13:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69C63A0916 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xomlQDUH2jgz for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DECA03A08F9 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9EE548045; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id C4427440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:06 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Fries, Steffen" Cc: "anima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200408031306.GB19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200325231348.GA23752@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:13:14 -0000 Yepp, time is fixed, agenda uploaded, posted to list. All you need to do is upload or send slides ;-) (if you already sent them, i still appreciate if you try the upload..., will check tomorrow evening) Cheers Toerless On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 07:09:50AM +0000, Fries, Steffen wrote: > Hi Toerless, > > Just to be sure I did not miss anything, is the schedule for the meeting on Thursday already fixed? I haven't seen an update, yet. > Do you collect the slides in advance for the meeting? > > Best regards > Steffen > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anima On Behalf Of [ext] Fries, Steffen > > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. März 2020 09:14 > > To: Toerless Eckert ; anima@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots > > > > Hi Toerless, > > > > Based on the submitted update of the draft on BRSKI-AE, I would like to give > > a status update on the document and also ask for WG adoption. > > > > Name of time slot: BRSKI-AE Updates > > Name of draft(s): draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 > > Time requested: 10-15 min > > Presenter name(s): Steffen Fries > > > > Best regards > > Steffen > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Anima On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. März 2020 00:14 > > > To: anima@ietf.org > > > Subject: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for > > > timeslots > > > > > > I have scheduled an ANIMA interim for 04/09/2020, 8 AM PDT (1500 UTC), > > > via webex. > > > > > > Please re-send requests for slots, i will poll those with existing WG > > > drafts to see if they think an update is appropriate. > > > > > > Not yet scheduled by secretariat, visible here: > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim/pending > > > > > > Cheers > > > Toerless > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Anima mailing list > > > Anima@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Anima mailing list > > Anima@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Apr 7 20:13:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80AB3A0917 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VoHdxqqLX5iv for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18CF93A0916 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5343F548045 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 520E0440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:13:41 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408031341.GC19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Webex testing: Re: Agenda/Logistics for ANIMA virtual interrim 04/09, 15:00 - 17:00 UTC X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:13:47 -0000 Btw: If you're unsure about your webex experience, join 15 mins before the ANIMA meeting starts to test your webex. Cheers Toerless In-Reply-To: <20200408031155.GA19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 05:11:55AM +0200, Toerless Eckert wrote: > Crisp short agenda for now, so if anyone has to propose more, please bring it up. > This is also on the etherpad, so if you want to propose more , just add it at the > end of the agenda on Etherpad. > > If you can not attend due to Time Zone issues, but would like something to be said > about some work of yours (or anything else), pls. feel free to send email to the chairs and > we can bring it in front of the WG. > > For those on the agenda, pls. upload your slides. I sent an email for the > non-WG chairs how to do it, else send slides to the chairs. > > Logistics: > ========== > > What: ANIMA 107 Virtual Interim 1 > When: 15:00 - 17:00 UTC Thursday, April 9, 2020 > Where: Webex > > Available During Session: > > Jabber: xmpp:anima@jabber.ietf.org?join > Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 > ICal: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mdbc29b738629ddb4e001aaf3448455a2 > Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima > > BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at the bottom on the Etherpad page here: > https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 > > WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to enter/leave) > WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info), also chair slides > > JOIN BY WEBEX: > URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 > Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 > Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 > > > Available Post Session: > Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. > Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/anima > Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-anima > Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima > > Agenda > ====== > > Administrivia - scribes, minutes, rules, introduction of our new AD, etc. > Toerless / Sheng > 15 minutes > > BRSKI status / update > Michael Richardson > draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 > 20 minutes > > ACP status / update > Toerless Eckert > draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 > 20 minutes > > Support of asynchronous Enrollment in BRSKI > draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 > Owen Friel > 15 minutes > > Intent Distribution > draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-00 > Xun Xiao > 15 min > > Anything else / Open Mic ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Tue Apr 7 22:13:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8A33A0CC0 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 72oSLhzvIrh0 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67CB63A0CBE for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id h11so2098553plk.7 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:13:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X2xHXHXK0F1GrChMhWs0WtaCCIo8X6qzGDPZDvSvu9Y=; b=XqRawYf13WuPop0F+jUqxRYHZR4uqHHPZUGX1RSNXc858vg7NVy0k5RbBKpbmA15ko EZXlYIvkb/vePcv89OJdnva4rE90+f5Q18LXL6x5T+qrXC4utgIBDVEWO7q0d5rqzDgL y08lJFUXYAL3MbOVL03SFE9CVcnRHTn/9NmCnneLptB/PQ/lybepk9FSbIo+be2IwAxf 7U6SDpQ1S9vyekczhvw5S0WQQh3XQ6ysjxVkisvtSULKrWN0/RVaHaJw1if1p0cNKvs5 O/d2cHxWUwrzKkY0Q1PXf+3My46oMLSi/C44rlBtXF+hm2pNXbxjfYKIwvZDc5sM/IvW bWVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X2xHXHXK0F1GrChMhWs0WtaCCIo8X6qzGDPZDvSvu9Y=; b=L9D+yb+Og/Orlex9dUbHMVW8sdNpkXQg9AO2/E0FOjRdxU456fumF183dwFtOF+EN/ sF7FlLbFGhG3HORof5XaLofIApUsCxzVCPzmKAC2Jjlo4Il+BWorFsGrzYAxL8pUQlft Vn2xgfV68tuXlFJM480S1uYWbSofMOYD0/jwB2gqpd8KUwn6Xy+A11l8FZox/+jtxXxl u55tZW0EeaXnCjGKsD0bBKUTQICwqp4aK7N+vxrGGEkS5cgzkfqjx6AburHRaNsyVFC5 vPzh3Dl2WqMUc5kTY9ukDoQfl5Ad9jxrSFQRYrX4QYnqkaXdYS82LefcesbACwk5co7C SRtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZax0TcUdmanaj2QWEzDkdGMctZ1aYpzfbNvI38Qo7N4PHav+EX uRRP4dI/z5053/md/yk1ZfHKDPJC X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJAzUuZl0SEbJ/Zq+btOqNiifJUGsFFZcHg61MXb4DqWTLNaDS3Q/V39/OatAVB2+35byjCWg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bd4c:: with SMTP id b12mr5823251plx.41.1586322828344; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6sm11233687pgz.0.2020.04.07.22.13.46 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Apr 2020 22:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian E Carpenter To: Anima WG Message-ID: <754a076e-be3b-7b8e-ba4d-42b93e68806a@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:13:43 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Pending ANIMA drafts X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 05:13:51 -0000 Hi everybody, Comments on the following drafts have been sadly lacking since IETF 106. As a result I have not asked for time on the April 9th agenda, especially since it will be 3 a.m. on April 10th for me. As a reminder, the base GRASP specification is sitting quietly in the RFC Editor queue waiting for a missing normative reference (the ACP draft). https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-grasp-api This version was based on several reviews and there were no changes requested during IETF 106. I would like to ask for WG Last Call *now* on this draft to see if there is consensus. (It's Informational, like most IETF work on APIs. It is also about to expire; I would rather get some more comments before refreshing it.) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-bulk https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios I would really like more feedback on these drafts. The first two are old enough that either the WG should adopt them, or they should be discarded. Without your feedback, nothing will happen. The l2acp draft has just expired, and will be revised shortly. Stay well Brian Carpenter From nobody Tue Apr 7 22:36:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFC13A0D74 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:36:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=kqH6L8Qy; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=abN54gE3 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:36:37 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Brian E Carpenter CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Last Call: (An Autonomic Control Plane (ACP)) to Proposed Standard Thread-Index: AQHWDOFXXWAVAw10JUySqZQsKbwJT6hufUOAgABZ1wA= Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:36:37 +0000 Message-ID: <870B8E86-AC69-46CA-ADC3-6682171A4AEB@cisco.com> References: <158626647181.20587.3914490319369406246@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:4828:6390:f5a3:8366] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4146428f-4632-4768-9dcd-08d7db7ecec2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1674: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0367A50BB1 x-forefront-antispam-report: 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DQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQogICAgPiBBbmltYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCiAgICA+IEFuaW1hQGlldGYub3JnDQog ICAgPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FuaW1hDQogICAgPiAN CiAgICANCg0K From nobody Tue Apr 7 22:57:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6ACC3A0DFE for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:57:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ySvsiButcfNR for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:57:25 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([169.254.11.5]) by DENBGAT9ER5MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.22.70.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 07:57:03 +0200 From: "Fries, Steffen" To: Toerless Eckert CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots Thread-Index: AQHWAvtAlepS1osYFkCPs7vspKj1FKhahnpwgBLKIQCAAS8mAIAATtVg Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:57:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200325231348.GA23752@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20200408031306.GB19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20200408031306.GB19983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [139.22.70.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timeslots X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 05:57:27 -0000 Hi Toerless, Just uploaded the slides. I also changed the name from Owen to my name for = the update o BRSKI-AE in the agenda. Best regards Steffen > -----Original Message----- > From: Toerless Eckert > Sent: Mittwoch, 8. April 2020 05:13 > To: Fries, Steffen (CT RDA CST) > Cc: anima@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for timesl= ots >=20 > Yepp, time is fixed, agenda uploaded, posted to list. > All you need to do is upload or send slides ;-) (if you already sent them= , i still > appreciate if you try the upload..., will check tomorrow evening) >=20 > Cheers > Toerless >=20 > On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 07:09:50AM +0000, Fries, Steffen wrote: > > Hi Toerless, > > > > Just to be sure I did not miss anything, is the schedule for the meetin= g on > Thursday already fixed? I haven't seen an update, yet. > > Do you collect the slides in advance for the meeting? > > > > Best regards > > Steffen > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Anima On Behalf Of [ext] Fries, > > > Steffen > > > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. M=E4rz 2020 09:14 > > > To: Toerless Eckert ; anima@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for > > > timeslots > > > > > > Hi Toerless, > > > > > > Based on the submitted update of the draft on BRSKI-AE, I would > > > like to give a status update on the document and also ask for WG > adoption. > > > > > > Name of time slot: BRSKI-AE Updates > > > Name of draft(s): draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 > > > Time requested: 10-15 min > > > Presenter name(s): Steffen Fries > > > > > > Best regards > > > Steffen > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Anima On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > > > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. M=E4rz 2020 00:14 > > > > To: anima@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Anima] ANIMA interim scheduled - Please (re) ask for > > > > timeslots > > > > > > > > I have scheduled an ANIMA interim for 04/09/2020, 8 AM PDT (1500 > > > > UTC), via webex. > > > > > > > > Please re-send requests for slots, i will poll those with existing > > > > WG drafts to see if they think an update is appropriate. > > > > > > > > Not yet scheduled by secretariat, visible here: > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim/pending > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Toerless > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Anima mailing list > > > > Anima@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Anima mailing list > > > Anima@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Anima mailing list > > Anima@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >=20 > -- > --- > tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed Apr 8 03:20:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202CF3A109A for ; 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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:20:15 +0000 From: "Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" To: Brian E Carpenter , Anima WG Thread-Topic: [Anima] Pending ANIMA drafts Thread-Index: AQHWDWSDW/RHQ8VlpUCs+/KSUs1UaahvAwpg Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:20:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <754a076e-be3b-7b8e-ba4d-42b93e68806a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <754a076e-be3b-7b8e-ba4d-42b93e68806a@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [176.130.37.253] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3feb29c4-8698-4e75-74b7-08d7dba66e2d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PR1PR07MB4873: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-forefront-prvs: 0367A50BB1 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3feb29c4-8698-4e75-74b7-08d7dba66e2d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Apr 2020 10:20:15.4214 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bPqa3TuqTqEQd3twxoAFGWqB7NI4+sl9O5fwl0eWSSFIF2VxMWW20l6SAR137DbBNNA0sVRQ8DvYS5cMbRc9SQ1omCbjq/cAyzJmJQVenJA= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR1PR07MB4873 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Pending ANIMA drafts X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 10:20:20 -0000 Hi Bria, All, Re: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines As a co-author, I also believe we need to make a decision on the next step = for this document. We have proposed options for content evolution in previous ANIMA meetings. Maybe a call for adoption as WG document will "force" us to take a decision= . Best regards, Laurent. > -----Original Message----- > From: Anima On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 07:14 > To: Anima WG > Subject: [Anima] Pending ANIMA drafts >=20 > Hi everybody, >=20 > Comments on the following drafts have been sadly lacking since IETF 106. > As a result I have not asked for time on the April 9th agenda, especially > since it will be 3 a.m. on April 10th for me. >=20 > As a reminder, the base GRASP specification is sitting quietly in the RFC > Editor queue waiting for a missing normative reference (the ACP draft). >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-grasp-api >=20 > This version was based on several reviews and there were no changes > requested during IETF 106. I would like to ask for WG Last Call *now* on > this draft to see if there is consensus. (It's Informational, like most > IETF work on APIs. It is also about to expire; I would rather get some > more comments before refreshing it.) >=20 >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-asa-guidelines > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-bulk > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios >=20 > I would really like more feedback on these drafts. The first two are old > enough that either the WG should adopt them, or they should be discarded. > Without your feedback, nothing will happen. >=20 > The l2acp draft has just expired, and will be revised shortly. >=20 > Stay well > Brian Carpenter >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Wed Apr 8 09:46:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB4D3A0F89; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:46:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158636436220.12580.9597046390884945419@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:46:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach (anima) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-09 CHANGED X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:46:10 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach (anima) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-09 from 08:00 to 10:00 America/Los_Angeles (15:00 to 17:00 UTC). Agenda: Logistics: ========== What: ANIMA 107 Virtual Interim 1 When: 15:00 - 17:00 UTC Thursday, April 9, 2020 Where: Webex Available During Session: Jabber: xmpp:anima@jabber.ietf.org?join Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 ICal: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mdbc29b738629ddb4e001aaf3448455a2 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at the bottom on the Etherpad page here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to enter/leave) WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info), also chair slides JOIN BY WEBEX: URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 Available Post Session: Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/anima Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-anima Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima Agenda ====== Administrivia - scribes, minutes, rules, introduction of our new AD, etc. Toerless / Sheng 15 minutes BRSKI status / update Michael Richardson draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 20 minutes ACP status / update Toerless Eckert draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 20 minutes Support of asynchronous Enrollment in BRSKI draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 Owen Friel 15 minutes Intent Distribution draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-00 Xun Xiao 15 min Anything else / Open Mic ? Information about remote participation: Access: 614 444 982 Password: AMvJRJwr392 URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 From nobody Wed Apr 8 09:52:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE243A0D57; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJUFskpFSXyD; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4730C3A09B1; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E76548015; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:52:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 413A8440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:52:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:52:18 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: IESG Secretary Cc: IETF-Announce , anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408165218.GA60341@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <158636436220.12580.9597046390884945419@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <158636436220.12580.9597046390884945419@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach (anima) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-09 CHANGED X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:52:26 -0000 Only updated the webex URL within datatracker so the interim calendar buttons work. On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 09:46:02AM -0700, IESG Secretary wrote: > MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. > > The Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach (anima) Working Group will hold > a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-09 from 08:00 to 10:00 America/Los_Angeles (15:00 to 17:00 UTC). > > Agenda: > > Logistics: > ========== > > What: ANIMA 107 Virtual Interim 1 > When: 15:00 - 17:00 UTC Thursday, April 9, 2020 > Where: Webex > > Available During Session: > > Jabber: xmpp:anima@jabber.ietf.org?join > Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 > ICal: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mdbc29b738629ddb4e001aaf3448455a2 > Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima > > BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at the bottom on the Etherpad page here: > https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 > > WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to enter/leave) > WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info), also chair slides > > JOIN BY WEBEX: > URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 > Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 > Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 > > > Available Post Session: > Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. > Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/anima > Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-anima > Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima > > Agenda > ====== > > Administrivia - scribes, minutes, rules, introduction of our new AD, etc. > Toerless / Sheng > 15 minutes > > BRSKI status / update > Michael Richardson > draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40 > 20 minutes > > ACP status / update > Toerless Eckert > draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 > 20 minutes > > Support of asynchronous Enrollment in BRSKI > draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 > Owen Friel > 15 minutes > > Intent Distribution > draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-00 > Xun Xiao > 15 min > > Anything else / Open Mic ? > > > > > Information about remote participation: > Access: 614 444 982 Password: AMvJRJwr392 URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed Apr 8 14:07:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D42B3A17C8 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:07:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1AEn1pTFly7 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE1E43A17C6 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id d17so3911336pgo.0 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:07:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tgt2f/sPyTzgnQBLdPbyDjZx8ApIXGzr94Ymgpb6w5w=; b=Y2kslMUgBqL8Mp97xlY2dcp21TeNPl0j6egTq6YcZSDvU31x6uRJ15Zxn84SlOucSf v08lBlGTGcNz1Y8TgGpBv8jXNVU8wF+dzKbuKlkIuAtYXM6KUtEAbjF4gksiwcV8gEky FlNN3PcQ652jrMiafyoAC2FJcr8I4qWc3BIiDkq7nDpxQzNyawG1XjAPA6ZyPqzO6eop gBNKO2dDXhz0tdJpj7i4dQSvWFdHoyOInnRbQ9G3nw0Sr5d7cziI9p7M/HEWt++ze5rp bFHS07zKJ/vTKfhVDwpfHHUbSRe4ceoxhPFT9RljpszFAdJn60qbSlX8c967JjUQnZzG XCCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tgt2f/sPyTzgnQBLdPbyDjZx8ApIXGzr94Ymgpb6w5w=; b=qmTqvFc8B6XQeqUD952gA1KCB485Q54+uuDQrsdR9CiC2q6/CS6Fc6p+lXzHDi4RsZ rhY+0BrWLCyQthBpmZQEe84VpyvK1i9qNimm+RnezoflAj2urJdsbQzNXrhPRaXyRGE3 bEB98cFt2Hlb9RpRwL3+Prf727njz8S5drMDy/t1RdlPB03FB/3HWzEiGiTXbykiy3l8 pny8gCjIkkC4SSG6u11i4JUGDFSCRggkbV8VUj8tywQNPxkrXeL0T1Ft8zn9QLjnSfac 0OVZg47BOsW9SGP1S724nLm+moH/NnJl6xFQOpW/tAU+Byc7Tzvrm3RxA/X6Uy2e157i V7uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY2N8ZlA3WaHBgVn7wxs4SetVjgQRdWgJ3tyBeqPJ82WAO3xPtn qAXNdx5ROrY3R1aGT3JXda4g0Ys0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIq9oqhToxKPK+J9w720Zwez6dEQqW/8u5zY6jqwiPQwXm2JCsEQIIavQXpUZHx4Aq+lcr+qg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:213:: with SMTP id 19mr8477854pgc.202.1586380070840; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e22sm4389962pgh.14.2020.04.08.14.07.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:07:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <158637976297.28582.17626678053506058053@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <158637976297.28582.17626678053506058053@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <98728212-1d58-e876-c784-c3b974e57d56@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:07:47 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <158637976297.28582.17626678053506058053@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:07:54 -0000 This is a minor update: Updated references Editorial improvements Converted to xml2rfc v3 Please read and comment. We would like to suggest WG adoption, as an Informational document. Brian & Bing -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02.txt Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:02:43 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Scenarios and Requirements for Layer 2 Autonomic Control Planes Authors : Brian Carpenter Bing Liu Filename : draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2020-04-08 Abstract: This document discusses scenarios and requirements for Autonomic Control Planes (ACPs) constructed and secured at Layer 2. These would be alternatives to an ACP constructed and secured at the network layer. A secure ACP is required as the substrate for an autonomic network and for the Generic Autonomic Signaling Protocol (GRASP). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-carpenter-anima-l2acp-scenarios-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Wed Apr 8 14:38:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CC23A17FE; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:38:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <158638188156.29634.15394540884621466269@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:38:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:38:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) Authors : Max Pritikin Michael C. Richardson Toerless Eckert Michael H. Behringer Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41.txt Pages : 122 Date : 2020-04-08 Abstract: This document specifies automated bootstrapping of an Autonomic Control Plane. To do this a Secure Key Infrastructure is bootstrapped. This is done using manufacturer-installed X.509 certificates, in combination with a manufacturer's authorizing service, both online and offline. We call this process the Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructure (BRSKI) protocol. Bootstrapping a new device can occur using a routable address and a cloud service, or using only link-local connectivity, or on limited/ disconnected networks. Support for deployment models with less stringent security requirements is included. Bootstrapping is complete when the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is successfully deployed to the device. The established secure connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the device as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Apr 8 18:06:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668A93A1C10 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:06:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZTG_Ttt4KxN for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E42D3A1C0D for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E192D548045 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 03:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id D9DD7440040; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 03:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 03:06:26 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 01:06:32 -0000 Hi folks, especially Jie, Xun, William, we're missing slides for your slots, all requested docs are on the agenda now. I have removed slot for BRSKI as Michael said it's done and he does not want to do slides I have moved ACP to the end because the responsible AD has a conflict during the first hour of our meeting. Cheers Toerless Logistics: ========== What: ANIMA 107 Virtual Interim 1 When: 15:00 - 17:00 UTC Thursday, April 9, 2020 Where: Webex Available During Session: Jabber: xmpp:anima@jabber.ietf.org?join Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 ICal: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mdbc29b738629ddb4e001aaf3448455a2 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at the bottom on the Etherpad page here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to enter/leave) WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info), also chair slides JOIN BY WEBEX: URL: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 Available Post Session: Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/anima Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-anima Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima Agenda ====== Administrivia - scribes, minutes, rules, introduction of our new AD, etc. Toerless / Sheng 15 minutes Support of asynchronous Enrollment in BRSKI draft-fries-anima-brski-async-enroll-03 Steffen Fries 15 minutes Intent Distribution draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-00 Xun Xiao 15 min IPv6 over Link-Local Discovery Protocol draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp-03 Jie Yang 10 minutes Delegated Authority for Bootstrap Voucher Artifacts draft-richardson-anima-voucher-delegation-01 Jie Yang 10 minutes Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations-03 Jie Yang 10 minutes Operational Considerations for Manufacturer Authorized Signing Authority draft-richardson-anima-masa-considerations-03 William Panwei 10 minutes ACP status / update Toerless Eckert draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 10 minutes Anything else / Open Mic ? From nobody Wed Apr 8 19:38:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0FE73A0657 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 19:38:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C6fSB989ImWs for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 19:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84AD33A064A for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 19:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C603897F for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C6616D for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:38:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:38:53 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain > BLUESHEETS: if you haven't already, please sign the Bluesheet located at > the bottom on the Etherpad page here: > https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 If your firewall blocks port 9009, you can use: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-anima-01 {It was, until a few hours ago, a redirect to port 9009, but it is not anymore. Same content, same server, but the port 443 has less capacity due to search engines, etc, trying to index it} -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6OirYACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUEpggAsEvzKcIoIj9xnv2wR3edXRJ3ZWys/vVn8YiFMCWzUMaLknE5KnhJqTNt ODuE0+G0tKk7oYrAoB6nyfAQvW6zE8fUpFfGvLVc+HEowZnAHMqPTbbM2RsgtkYi cVolLnUabyhwqOE1CIeslUlLVZnRiYxxRtSEXCiAtwAETVrEW+nVxdZUCFTuylYT 2K0FCPO4xGjuQvOhh8OshrEXqptOVMWfpIgtjP/nImV6mtihk7PTorJ80uK3EKFj PG7t+SnCgtylRVfRaWHhqXju4SfoV64QmXCQcL+gP+RJeg8BT96k3ctoT2UPTvto RUYhngA58Aj5W01P3KUVjNTvBLtaTw== =x+Ux -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 06:53:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC623A0B6E for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.652 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xIlees2cDZOX for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F1633A0B7C for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E72548015 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:53:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 7D86C440040; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:53:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:53:46 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200409135346.GA29441@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] 1 missing deck left.. Re: Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 13:53:53 -0000 Still missing slides for: Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations-03 (i think) All other decks uploaded. From nobody Thu Apr 9 07:39:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6753A07AE for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:39:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EKq65jeRLLx7 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A28D33A07B5 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A572338981; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3C7116; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:39:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Toerless Eckert cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20200409135346.GA29441@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200409135346.GA29441@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:39:04 -0400 Message-ID: <24754.1586443144@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] 1 missing deck left.. Re: Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:39:20 -0000 Toerless Eckert wrote: > Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar > draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations-03 You should have had it uploaded 20 minutes ago. From nobody Thu Apr 9 07:40:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3116A3A0771 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A92_tJjdnSvw for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68BD73A07BC for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D5F38981; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C924116; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Toerless Eckert cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:40:27 -0400 Message-ID: <25056.1586443227@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:40:34 -0000 Toerless, thank you for a beautifully complete agenda document. (I have seen some doozies this week...) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Thu Apr 9 08:27:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3703A09F6 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7GNn5cx65Cd7 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E52DF3A09F3 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EF2548045; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:27:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 418EC440040; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:27:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:27:45 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200409152745.GA22598@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200409135346.GA29441@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <24754.1586443144@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <24754.1586443144@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] 1 missing deck left.. Re: Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:27:53 -0000 Don't see slides pending in datatracker for: Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations-03 Jie Yang 10 minutes On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 10:39:04AM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar > > draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations-03 > > You should have had it uploaded 20 minutes ago. > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Apr 9 08:28:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780473A09F9 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:28:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fg9gQcUOD5IL for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E95F43A09F8 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B52548048; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:28:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id D2C9C440040; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:28:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:28:08 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200409152808.GB22598@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200409010626.GA14489@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <25056.1586443227@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <25056.1586443227@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Updated agenda ANIMA virtual interim X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:28:16 -0000 Thanks, always helps to steal from OPS folks ;-)) On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 10:40:27AM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > Toerless, thank you for a beautifully complete agenda document. > > (I have seen some doozies this week...) > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Thu Apr 9 08:43:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C12E3A0A9A; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:43:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Toerless Eckert , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, warren@kumari.net, The IESG , anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, tte+ietf@cs.fau.de, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <158644701361.28640.14183261400303717533@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 08:43:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Protocol Action: 'Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41.txt) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:43:34 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI)' (draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Warren Kumari and Robert Wilton. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra/ Technical Summary This document specifies a mechanism for automated bootstrapping of an Autonomic Control Plane. To do this, a remote secure key infrastructure (BRSKI) is created using manufacturer installed X.509 certificate, in combination with a manufacturer's authorizing service, both online and offline. Support for lower security models, including devices with minimal identity, is described for legacy reasons but not encouraged Bootstrapping is complete when the cryptographic identity of the new key infrastructure is successfully deployed to the device but the established secure connection can be used to deploy a locally issued certificate to the device as well. Working Group Summary The document has been through two IETF Last Calls as the first one resulted in significant and substantial changes to the proposed mechanisms. Working Group had sufficient interest from the community on evolving the document since 2016. One topic that raised controversy was the reliance of the proposed mechanism on the manufacturer’s identity management systems. The consensus was eventually reached on this topic. Document Quality There are indications of multiple independent implementations available and in progress, both open and closed source. The document went through multiple iterations of WG LCs by the core interest group, has received several directorate and Doctors’ reviews, and went through two IETF wide last calls. Personnel Document Shepherd is Toerless Eckert. Responsible Area Director is Ignas Bagdonas. Suggested IANA Designated Experts for newly created registries are Michael Richardson and Max Pritikin. IANA Note This document requests to add new entries to existing Well-known EST, PKIX, DNS Service Names, and MUD Extensions registries, as well as creating new registry for BRSKI Parameters. From nobody Thu Apr 9 17:20:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21973A168C for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:20:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFkSwvyMlDRP for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 803E33A1689 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962213897F; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7491002; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:20:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Esko Dijk cc: "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <158585811816.26641.249532267918234026@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-40.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:20:50 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Esko Dijk wrote: > The new text looks good now. I was still wondering about the pg 12 > requirement in RFC 8366 ; which amounts to: > The [domain certificate supplied to the pledge separately by the > bootstrapping protocol] MUST have [pinned-domain-cert] somewhere in its > chain of certificates. > It looks like the "domain certificate" here is then not meant as (1) > the EE certificate that the EST server will hand to the Pledge later on > (as I thought), but rather (2) the Registrar's certificate that is > supplied to the Pledge in the initial handshake. Can you explain "later on" here? The Registrar's TLS Server Certificate could be a different PKI hierarchy than the resulting PKI. > If one interprets it like (1) then BRSKI may violate the requirement; > if one interprets it to be (2) then all is fine. > A few remaining nits found during reading: Thanks. I have updated my copy of the XML, and I'll pass this on to the RFC-editor. Nothing is going forward until the ACP LC ends and the IESG does it's reviews. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6Pu9sACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXIQAf/etHyVrkWAumuBTZ66T68nuDMtmI/wdOpsZ7wbrb1A+JSIMsAXrxOvyCj LOeDrkp8GuQmps5hjlspkd1mIU14hKsMquLSpdWK0V1DhXwrRGzluwXxaIG2ON1u lDk2jeWHDy5Eg7GFuCwF+18X5qpTjRTM6VEJ7kLv3e8UxUKuT6qpplOPQYoOC/BH mdhJAqnMfF99Bl/dJhR4fCNWf9ZB9/A5c4Bl7mpyC1imd8rgHGPn6Az0vQkCR8PN bpC24VGfndBb+K1a762xjqs3oTifcvCelxiZjFG3zuBBRYRIdKyoZJAzWYgmAuDV fC35rD3TItVUjN1wKxAmDtcUAxHPyA== =rEXn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 17:39:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD173A17D7; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hz1PZOGlLhHD; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6C643A17D9; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16FF63897F; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175121002; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:39:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Esko Dijk , Owen Friel , "anima\@ietf.org" , acme@ietf.org, spasm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <158561301296.11367.9776561744635554098@ietfa.amsl.com> <4603.1585620652@localhost> <20200331150202.GH50174@kduck.mit.edu> <600.1585687336@localhost> <5633.1585770340@localhost> <13227.1586052088@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ACME integrations with BRSKI and cmcRA bit X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:39:57 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Esko Dijk wrote: > Currently BRSKI Section 5.5.4 has this text: doc> The MASA MUST verify that the registrar voucher-request is signed by a registrar > If the Registrar would use a non-RA certificate e.g. ACME (LE) standard > EE certificate, then it seems that it cannot get anything from MASA...? > And BRSKI would not work? I agree that there are potential issues here. 1) I think that the MASA may skip that check for recognized registrars, so that the ACME integration work can work. This would be a local configuration. 2) It may be that draft-ietf-acme-integrations and/or draft-friel-acme-subdomains may need to specify a way to ask for cmcRA to be set within ACME, when using ACME when doing the pre-authorization for "domain.com" cf: NOTE: Pre-Authorization of "domain.com" is complete The ACME spec does support authorizations for domains, and maybe that would be the best way to do this. This also supports the concept that the cmcRA bit ought to apply to all RA operations (CMP and well as EST), as proposed in LAMPS. I think that we should perhaps plan a design team meeting/BOF around this discussion. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6PwFcACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVxgAf/bH4cgfOpLLkFmjUcuim8IW/qpFk5zMI+z63nHYE6epWZ/qdb7gGuhTTp kU2IJbkZyFO2y7V/+UlNh+TOyaaheplcw9tJkEcgXN+yVXtXGHLcocUR+e8jN29p O9jFSXeqEF9RjVInsIcNyrOhxxeHnabXsFF78NvHOceeMiGqa/+Ecrv80T5ybwKQ 3P5YRM32siFfSJoWqmuO8fjOMs7irutSUmq3s7apJOdRzjzOItX1jwtxq2PEiJR3 JQfvFFEE1SUI7LLOrrJC274lrF0U3HUVJQxJDurpDmW3R929ZzKt6ATD4HlZQOcJ FXJAG7ZPHl/smMO1vJp0L0fAGOz+jw== =Q3zl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 19:16:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE313A1952; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 19:16:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Joel Halpern via Datatracker To: Cc: anima@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Joel Halpern Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 19:16:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 02:16:17 -0000 Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review result: Not Ready Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24.txt Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review Date: 9-April-2020 IETF LC End Date: N/A Intended Status: Proposed Standard Summary: I have two major concern about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. The are also a number of minor items that warrant attention. Comments: While quite long, the draft is significantly improved from earlier versions. It does provide significant explanation of its design choices, which is helpful and appreciated. Sometimes this seems to end up more as marketing or promotion instead of explanation, but this is mostly harmless. In particular, I would like to thank the authors and editors for the addition of section 9.3 and its careful discussion of the many issues there. Major Issues: Section 6.10.3.1 on the use of Zone-IDs seems, from the material in A.10.1, to be dependent upon either configuration (which ACP is supposed to avoid) or completely unspecified magic. Having an addressing and routing scheme standardized that is impossible to use seems at variance with appropriate practice. It would be fine to say that provision is made for non-zero Zone-IDs in the hope that future work can find ways to scale further using this. But pretending it is well-defined, but not actually defining it, seems unacceptable. Section 6.12.5.1 on loopback interface is factually wrong. It conflates one particular form of loopback interface with the definition of loopback interfaces. This also leads to the error in the definition section (see minor comment below). (Loopback Interfaces were used long before RFC 4291, and on routers were often used for external communication. This was itself a repurposing of the original loopback interface, 127.0.0.1, which was indeed for internal use.) Minor Issues: It seems distinctly unfortunate that the definition for Data Plane in section 2 explicitly states that this definition is different from that used in other work, including other routing work. This seems a recipe for both confusion and mis-communication among technologists. In the definition of in-band management in section 2, please remove the commentary text on putative fragility. (I actually agree it has some fragility. The discussion does not belong here. This is a definition.) The promotional material may be warranted, if jarring, in other parts of the documents. Not in the definitions please. The definition of a loopback interface in section 2 is wrong. It claims that loopbacks transmit no external traffic. They send and receive lots of external traffic. They merely do so by forwarding the traffic internally to other interfaces. The traffic is external. The particular step of the transmission, if implemented naively, is internal. If we are going to define ACP as a virtual out of band network, I would suggest separating the terms into two definitions. One for true out of band networks (distinct physical links, switches, and ports), and then a definition for virtual out of band network which describes the ACP approximation which creates independence from configuration, but not independence from the physical links. Section 5, bullet 2, talks about a policy as to which peers ACP communication should be established. It would be helpful if this gave a reference or indication as to where such policies would come from. Given the emphasis on zero touch, I presume they are not configured on the node? (This issues was in my review of -13.) Bullet 4 of section 6.1.3 on checking certificates against the CRL / OCSP would seem to be better reworded. I believe the intended requirements i that IF there is ACP connectivity to the CRL / OCSP source, then it should be verified. But that absence of such connectivity should not prevent association formation. (As, if I have read it wright, otherwise we could deadlock the startup process.) In the example in section 6.5 on Channel selection, in steps 7:C1 and 11:C2, Node 1 concludes that it is Bob. However, in steps 12 and 13, the text refers to Node1 (Alice). This seems inconsistent. Section 6.7.1 makes an assertion about the lack of need for MTI of security mechanisms. The earlier explanation was well done and seems sound. This shorter one seems wrong, since without MTI there is no good way to know what ones neighbors may implement. I suggest simply removing this text and replacing it with a backwards reference to the earlier description. (The rest of the section is useful and clear.) In 6.10.3, ACP Zone Addressing Sub-Scheme, the text claims that when zone IDs of 0 are used, the addresses are identifiers, and when non-zero IDs aere used, they are locators. Since in either case the addresses are used for packet forwarding, and the addressing information is propagated in the routing protocol (RPL), this seems to be a misuse of the locator / identifier distinction. And a misuse for no purpose as the distinction is not relevant to the document. (This odd use of "identifier continues in section 6.10.3.1. Identifier is not a synonym of "flat". Just say "flat".) The assertion about looping packets in the later portion of 6.11.1.1 is over-stated. There are other routing protocols that avoid looping-till-ttl without changing the data plane header. I suggest removing the gratuitous comparison with other routing protocols. 6.12.5.1 refers to the ACP addresses as node addresses. Technically, the IPv6 architecture requires that all addresses are associated with interfaces rather than nodes. I would prefer that this draft not needlessly claim to violate that. Section 7.2 (L2 DULL GRASP) seems to be doing something quite useful. I think I see how it would work. The need for some configuration on some switches seems inevitable and acceptable. I think there is one corner case that should be avoided, as it seems likely to create significant complexity for little or no benefit. It seems to me that a switch that is capable of participating in the ACP should either participate in the ACP on all its physical ports, or should not participate in the ACP at all. I would not be surprised if that was the WG intent. But I could not find the text that says this. (Apologies if it is there and I missed it.) Section 9 starts by saying it is informational. But the first paragraph says that some of the content is "necessary" for correct operation. Thus, it seems that some of the content is normative? (I am not sure, but I think the "necessary" material relates to what is needed to be a registrar?) Nits: The second and third paragraphs of section 6.11.1.1 on RPL start with duplicated text, and then go on to say different (complementary) things. There is no need for the repetition. The rank factor in 6.11.1.6 of 100 megabits as the boundary seems a fairly arbitrary choice. It may be that an arbitrary choice was needed. Could something be said? In particular, if someone looks at this 5 years from now, it may seem quite confusing. From nobody Thu Apr 9 21:30:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31FD3A1B2F; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:30:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pzRu3lkQEOOV; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com (mail-pj1-x1029.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99E553A1B2E; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id e16so60200pjp.1; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SH40sFpHO7nJTkqGNDXQGn2dFy0CYiIQ7CDA3SFTng8=; b=NPezdn8SYl4b11D1hASXUZpRA0/JAEHCpNQTjwc6ydCUzUdC9SB7Z2ZxYxvPfB6/uL ImLAgQdqUvn+FF5ItVsAVURhFjA9n5OqtJHuRyDiG/JNW/nJz1+dG0igWelkwDmfpz7e uVYzezQBhwohINQwzdTMF0lxvNiMMnq4f//44AWr3Ce2olAztgApcza+MBHkCUaCjrXa JU//kU/taH4c14QVuqvfcEYOh4/wzbRehu9ZHWApYbCPSs5OeZQY751lfcJBosNiPQrv mU5ePGBd11BfJpUi2J3xIdM/GyKhzwArVDf9xKDuLIRAHY/rTfORcXqwv3ubVqziaDfL vVqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=SH40sFpHO7nJTkqGNDXQGn2dFy0CYiIQ7CDA3SFTng8=; b=ioqvZjNO+AiYMaP1Rsl6uEbPbtQJF2hxue35PeOiEy0bR2vz+lFtFa5vtOTDzx3vwI Tl/KokfDaBE6qlLPcKvst1kdQmmLIdHctYuYKJtjalwj6GBm2s4rotvBDLTiMCCgQB7H sMpsTk3Nrz0BYJC8oDrxvspufGhTg15JkSbKGn+xGhuOvea1dNptvzXQsuibsdwJQ7YQ IMW3Oaa1NDsx4jaLEcAd+TdUn3zzL6S0v8nwjIBcpEiV1Cv6iYqmpH3FXU9G5yA6ZipZ CQPTi7WBYi0Uyvf/B3X8m2JGTT0p8vqTY7ezp6T6wIYlbKRBx/XeydXJjDLaUeFX86Hy rkuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZMxevAM7yICUXJEq9bqm+Oam4NEJ7KLIClTTIuwdnCPPEFxnX8 m9I+rKsWtsDCiZVZ3a3IlKE+iy0m X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJJ38YtbNr1JRtLB9qPtuYa0FiUYZaJA5cMmnBK2x5nupa2QlWFaAmZPs7JKrrFpGMBin5nsg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9305:: with SMTP id bc5mr2999860plb.127.1586493025441; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w27sm609729pfq.211.2020.04.09.21.30.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT) To: Joel Halpern , rtg-dir@ietf.org Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:30:18 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 04:30:32 -0000 Hi Joel, What a great review. I have comments on both your major comments, and an important comment near the bottom of your minor comments. On 10-Apr-20 14:16, Joel Halpern via Datatracker wrote: > Reviewer: Joel Halpern > Review result: Not Ready ...> Summary: > I have two major concern about this document that I think should be > resolved before publication. The are also a number of minor items that > warrant attention. > > Comments: > > While quite long, the draft is significantly improved from earlier versions. > It does provide significant explanation of its design choices, which is helpful > and appreciated. Sometimes this seems to end up more as marketing or promotion > instead of explanation, but this is mostly harmless. > > In particular, I would like to thank the authors and editors for the addition > of section 9.3 and its careful discussion of the many issues there. > > Major Issues: > > Section 6.10.3.1 on the use of Zone-IDs seems, from the material in A.10.1, > to be dependent upon either configuration (which ACP is supposed to avoid) > or completely unspecified magic. Having an addressing and routing scheme > standardized that is impossible to use seems at variance with appropriate > practice. It would be fine to say that provision is made for non-zero > Zone-IDs in the hope that future work can find ways to scale further using > this. But pretending it is well-defined, but not actually defining it, > seems unacceptable. Interesting. I've always read this text (and the Appendix text) to mean that Zone-IDs are indeed reserved for future work, but that a few of their basic properties are defined. Are you suggesting to delete all that, or to add a clear statement that they are currently not fully defined and should not be implemented? > Section 6.12.5.1 on loopback interface is factually wrong. It conflates > one particular form of loopback interface with the definition of loopback > interfaces. This also leads to the error in the definition section (see > minor comment below). (Loopback Interfaces were used long before RFC 4291, > and on routers were often used for external communication. This was itself > a repurposing of the original loopback interface, 127.0.0.1, which was > indeed for internal use.) This text is probably my fault, since back in 2015 I was bugging the authors about VRF terminology and loopback in particular. I searched for and failed to find a generic definition of "loopback" and I also wrote this: >>> Routing people and Linux hackers use "loopback interface" as a term of art. I >>> still think you are wrong, and the restriction you want to impose is that only >>> *secure virtual* interfaces of autonomic nodes carry a routable address. >>> Attaching the addresses to a loopback interface is an implementation >>> mechanism. and in 2017 I wrote this (sorry, but I can't provide a TL;DR version): >>> I'm still not 100% happy with that but 'loopback' is a term of art >>> in our business. According to RFC 4291, the loopback interface is >>> >>>>> a virtual interface (typically called the "loopback >>>>> interface") to an imaginary link that goes nowhere. >>> >>> so basically it is indeed where you can hang an address that does >>> not belong to any specific physical or virtual interface. I find it >>> slightly troubling that this important concept is, as far as I can >>> tell, not defined very well anywhere. I had to break out my copy >>> of Stevens's "TCP/IP Illustrated" to get some clarity. >>> >>> So I don't think ACP nodes are different, actually. This is just >>> an undocumented common practice, as are VRFs. >>> >>> The earliest reference I've found to "loopback interface" is in >>> RFC 1812, which simply assumes that the reader knows what it means. >>> There's some reasonably helpful discussion in RFC 4007, and RFC 6724 >>> says: >>> >>>>> Implementations that wish to support the use of global source >>>>> addresses assigned to a loopback interface MUST behave as if the >>>>> loopback interface originates and forwards the packet. >>> >>> RFC 7404 shows the extent to which hanging an address on the loopback >>> interface is common practice in router operations. (There's also a >>> brief mention of this in RFC 7010, which I had completely forgotten >>> despite being a co-author.) Frankly I'm still a bit unhappy about using the term "loopback interface" because it doesn't seem to me to be relevant to describing external behaviour of a node, and it is very much an implementation artefact that seems to mean slightly different things to different people. > > Minor Issues: > > It seems distinctly unfortunate that the definition for Data Plane in > section 2 explicitly states that this definition is different from that used > in other work, including other routing work. This seems a recipe for both > confusion and mis-communication among technologists. > > In the definition of in-band management in section 2, please remove the > commentary text on putative fragility. (I actually agree it has some > fragility. The discussion does not belong here. This is a definition.) > The promotional material may be warranted, if jarring, in other parts of the > documents. Not in the definitions please. > > The definition of a loopback interface in section 2 is wrong. It claims > that loopbacks transmit no external traffic. They send and receive lots > of external traffic. They merely do so by forwarding the traffic > internally to other interfaces. The traffic is external. The particular > step of the transmission, if implemented naively, is internal. > > If we are going to define ACP as a virtual out of band network, I would > suggest separating the terms into two definitions. One for true out of > band networks (distinct physical links, switches, and ports), and then a > definition for virtual out of band network which describes the ACP > approximation which creates independence from configuration, but not > independence from the physical links. > > Section 5, bullet 2, talks about a policy as to which peers ACP > communication should be established. It would be helpful if this gave a > reference or indication as to where such policies would come from. Given > the emphasis on zero touch, I presume they are not configured on the node? > (This issues was in my review of -13.) > > Bullet 4 of section 6.1.3 on checking certificates against the CRL / OCSP > would seem to be better reworded. I believe the intended requirements i > that IF there is ACP connectivity to the CRL / OCSP source, then it should > be verified. But that absence of such connectivity should not prevent > association formation. (As, if I have read it wright, otherwise we could > deadlock the startup process.) > > In the example in section 6.5 on Channel selection, in steps 7:C1 and > 11:C2, Node 1 concludes that it is Bob. However, in steps 12 and 13, the > text refers to Node1 (Alice). This seems inconsistent. > > Section 6.7.1 makes an assertion about the lack of need for MTI of security > mechanisms. The earlier explanation was well done and seems sound. This > shorter one seems wrong, since without MTI there is no good way to know > what ones neighbors may implement. I suggest simply removing this text and > replacing it with a backwards reference to the earlier description. (The > rest of the section is useful and clear.) > > In 6.10.3, ACP Zone Addressing Sub-Scheme, the text claims that when zone > IDs of 0 are used, the addresses are identifiers, and when non-zero IDs > aere used, they are locators. Since in either case the addresses are used > for packet forwarding, and the addressing information is propagated in the > routing protocol (RPL), this seems to be a misuse of the locator / > identifier distinction. And a misuse for no purpose as the distinction is > not relevant to the document. (This odd use of "identifier continues in > section 6.10.3.1. Identifier is not a synonym of "flat". Just say "flat".) > > The assertion about looping packets in the later portion of 6.11.1.1 is > over-stated. There are other routing protocols that avoid looping-till-ttl > without changing the data plane header. I suggest removing the gratuitous > comparison with other routing protocols. > > 6.12.5.1 refers to the ACP addresses as node addresses. Technically, the > IPv6 architecture requires that all addresses are associated with > interfaces rather than nodes. I would prefer that this draft not > needlessly claim to violate that. > > Section 7.2 (L2 DULL GRASP) seems to be doing something quite useful. I > think I see how it would work. The need for some configuration on some > switches seems inevitable and acceptable. I think there is one corner > case that should be avoided, as it seems likely to create significant > complexity for little or no benefit. It seems to me that a switch that is > capable of participating in the ACP should either participate in the ACP on > all its physical ports, or should not participate in the ACP at all. I > would not be surprised if that was the WG intent. But I could not find the > text that says this. (Apologies if it is there and I missed it.) No. A node which is at the edge of the ACP will by definition have at least one interface that is in the ACP, and at least one interface that is not in the ACP. I can't see any way to avoid that. What you say definitely applies to L2 links: they must be either inside or outside. (But even that gets complicated if running the ACP over a VLAN. Then the statement becomes: each VLAN must be either inside or outside.) Hmm. There's a draft on this topic in the RFC queue, and I am quite sure that ANIMA needs to start new work on the domain membership and boundary issue. Regards, Brian > > Section 9 starts by saying it is informational. But the first paragraph > says that some of the content is "necessary" for correct operation. Thus, > it seems that some of the content is normative? (I am not sure, but I > think the "necessary" material relates to what is needed to be a registrar?) > > Nits: > The second and third paragraphs of section 6.11.1.1 on RPL start with > duplicated text, and then go on to say different (complementary) things. > There is no need for the repetition. > > The rank factor in 6.11.1.6 of 100 megabits as the boundary seems a fairly > arbitrary choice. It may be that an arbitrary choice was needed. Could > something be said? In particular, if someone looks at this 5 years from > now, it may seem quite confusing. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Thu Apr 9 21:50:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0FEF3A1B62; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PnvfwXkf_S1r; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77BC23A1B61; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48z5D51sKpz1ny1n; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:50:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1586494213; bh=Oqyln29nyL8TzCmcA2qw4LWV0ozoOsuTswOIfWyZvGo=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Jb+6/Gzqse66aTGcYtA3Ep0iISpyk8jyq3DdNfQzBfCkuf/8NWHiLuMmJVaQvPWbZ 4Lika2IXkJDdRtiSgWspvkrMwD9+/ys4uNlv7UzBUfcCi2kI6W6eVoUJNcMnlHeeOu 0aQ68j1L4Fj+oSQayFHQ6krCzqVS+tBbtA2jchbo= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48z5D43ZQYz1ny1f; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:50:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Brian E Carpenter , rtg-dir@ietf.org Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org References: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <709d4f5a-69a7-463e-07f3-b11cc3a9e70b@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:50:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 04:50:16 -0000 Thanks Brian. Given the amount of text below, I am going to top-post. On the Zone IDs, personally, I would remove all of the text about non-zero ZoneIDs, and replace it with a simple statement that it is expected to be used for future work on aggregatable addressing to improve scaling. On Loopback, I understand your frustration with the lack of a good definition. Given that IPv6 addressing architecture constraints, you need some sort of interface. In practice, the way loopbacks are used seems to match the need. So I do not object to the usage. just to the definition. It would also be acceptable to simply craft a different term and clearly define it if the usage is sufficiently different from existing practice. On the final minor comment, it was specifically about the section on L2 devices. Maybe something special is needed for the special case of a shared network that is also a border network. But that seems very rare. And getting the L2 switch to do the right packet forwarding for the hybrid case seems an invitation to trouble. Yours, Joel On 4/10/2020 12:30 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Hi Joel, > > What a great review. I have comments on both your major comments, and an > important comment near the bottom of your minor comments. > > On 10-Apr-20 14:16, Joel Halpern via Datatracker wrote: >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review result: Not Ready > ...> Summary: >> I have two major concern about this document that I think should be >> resolved before publication. The are also a number of minor items that >> warrant attention. >> >> Comments: >> >> While quite long, the draft is significantly improved from earlier versions. >> It does provide significant explanation of its design choices, which is helpful >> and appreciated. Sometimes this seems to end up more as marketing or promotion >> instead of explanation, but this is mostly harmless. >> >> In particular, I would like to thank the authors and editors for the addition >> of section 9.3 and its careful discussion of the many issues there. >> >> Major Issues: >> >> Section 6.10.3.1 on the use of Zone-IDs seems, from the material in A.10.1, >> to be dependent upon either configuration (which ACP is supposed to avoid) >> or completely unspecified magic. Having an addressing and routing scheme >> standardized that is impossible to use seems at variance with appropriate >> practice. It would be fine to say that provision is made for non-zero >> Zone-IDs in the hope that future work can find ways to scale further using >> this. But pretending it is well-defined, but not actually defining it, >> seems unacceptable. > > Interesting. I've always read this text (and the Appendix text) to mean > that Zone-IDs are indeed reserved for future work, but that a few of > their basic properties are defined. Are you suggesting to delete all > that, or to add a clear statement that they are currently not fully > defined and should not be implemented? > >> Section 6.12.5.1 on loopback interface is factually wrong. It conflates >> one particular form of loopback interface with the definition of loopback >> interfaces. This also leads to the error in the definition section (see >> minor comment below). (Loopback Interfaces were used long before RFC 4291, >> and on routers were often used for external communication. This was itself >> a repurposing of the original loopback interface, 127.0.0.1, which was >> indeed for internal use.) > > This text is probably my fault, since back in 2015 I was bugging the authors > about VRF terminology and loopback in particular. I searched for and > failed to find a generic definition of "loopback" and I also wrote this: > >>>> Routing people and Linux hackers use "loopback interface" as a term of art. I >>>> still think you are wrong, and the restriction you want to impose is that only >>>> *secure virtual* interfaces of autonomic nodes carry a routable address. >>>> Attaching the addresses to a loopback interface is an implementation >>>> mechanism. > > and in 2017 I wrote this (sorry, but I can't provide a TL;DR version): > >>>> I'm still not 100% happy with that but 'loopback' is a term of art >>>> in our business. According to RFC 4291, the loopback interface is >>>> >>>>>> a virtual interface (typically called the "loopback >>>>>> interface") to an imaginary link that goes nowhere. >>>> >>>> so basically it is indeed where you can hang an address that does >>>> not belong to any specific physical or virtual interface. I find it >>>> slightly troubling that this important concept is, as far as I can >>>> tell, not defined very well anywhere. I had to break out my copy >>>> of Stevens's "TCP/IP Illustrated" to get some clarity. >>>> >>>> So I don't think ACP nodes are different, actually. This is just >>>> an undocumented common practice, as are VRFs. >>>> >>>> The earliest reference I've found to "loopback interface" is in >>>> RFC 1812, which simply assumes that the reader knows what it means. >>>> There's some reasonably helpful discussion in RFC 4007, and RFC 6724 >>>> says: >>>> >>>>>> Implementations that wish to support the use of global source >>>>>> addresses assigned to a loopback interface MUST behave as if the >>>>>> loopback interface originates and forwards the packet. >>>> >>>> RFC 7404 shows the extent to which hanging an address on the loopback >>>> interface is common practice in router operations. (There's also a >>>> brief mention of this in RFC 7010, which I had completely forgotten >>>> despite being a co-author.) > > Frankly I'm still a bit unhappy about using the term "loopback interface" > because it doesn't seem to me to be relevant to describing external > behaviour of a node, and it is very much an implementation artefact > that seems to mean slightly different things to different people. > >> >> Minor Issues: >> >> It seems distinctly unfortunate that the definition for Data Plane in >> section 2 explicitly states that this definition is different from that used >> in other work, including other routing work. This seems a recipe for both >> confusion and mis-communication among technologists. >> >> In the definition of in-band management in section 2, please remove the >> commentary text on putative fragility. (I actually agree it has some >> fragility. The discussion does not belong here. This is a definition.) >> The promotional material may be warranted, if jarring, in other parts of the >> documents. Not in the definitions please. >> >> The definition of a loopback interface in section 2 is wrong. It claims >> that loopbacks transmit no external traffic. They send and receive lots >> of external traffic. They merely do so by forwarding the traffic >> internally to other interfaces. The traffic is external. The particular >> step of the transmission, if implemented naively, is internal. >> >> If we are going to define ACP as a virtual out of band network, I would >> suggest separating the terms into two definitions. One for true out of >> band networks (distinct physical links, switches, and ports), and then a >> definition for virtual out of band network which describes the ACP >> approximation which creates independence from configuration, but not >> independence from the physical links. >> >> Section 5, bullet 2, talks about a policy as to which peers ACP >> communication should be established. It would be helpful if this gave a >> reference or indication as to where such policies would come from. Given >> the emphasis on zero touch, I presume they are not configured on the node? >> (This issues was in my review of -13.) >> >> Bullet 4 of section 6.1.3 on checking certificates against the CRL / OCSP >> would seem to be better reworded. I believe the intended requirements i >> that IF there is ACP connectivity to the CRL / OCSP source, then it should >> be verified. But that absence of such connectivity should not prevent >> association formation. (As, if I have read it wright, otherwise we could >> deadlock the startup process.) >> >> In the example in section 6.5 on Channel selection, in steps 7:C1 and >> 11:C2, Node 1 concludes that it is Bob. However, in steps 12 and 13, the >> text refers to Node1 (Alice). This seems inconsistent. >> >> Section 6.7.1 makes an assertion about the lack of need for MTI of security >> mechanisms. The earlier explanation was well done and seems sound. This >> shorter one seems wrong, since without MTI there is no good way to know >> what ones neighbors may implement. I suggest simply removing this text and >> replacing it with a backwards reference to the earlier description. (The >> rest of the section is useful and clear.) >> >> In 6.10.3, ACP Zone Addressing Sub-Scheme, the text claims that when zone >> IDs of 0 are used, the addresses are identifiers, and when non-zero IDs >> aere used, they are locators. Since in either case the addresses are used >> for packet forwarding, and the addressing information is propagated in the >> routing protocol (RPL), this seems to be a misuse of the locator / >> identifier distinction. And a misuse for no purpose as the distinction is >> not relevant to the document. (This odd use of "identifier continues in >> section 6.10.3.1. Identifier is not a synonym of "flat". Just say "flat".) >> >> The assertion about looping packets in the later portion of 6.11.1.1 is >> over-stated. There are other routing protocols that avoid looping-till-ttl >> without changing the data plane header. I suggest removing the gratuitous >> comparison with other routing protocols. >> >> 6.12.5.1 refers to the ACP addresses as node addresses. Technically, the >> IPv6 architecture requires that all addresses are associated with >> interfaces rather than nodes. I would prefer that this draft not >> needlessly claim to violate that. >> >> Section 7.2 (L2 DULL GRASP) seems to be doing something quite useful. I >> think I see how it would work. The need for some configuration on some >> switches seems inevitable and acceptable. I think there is one corner >> case that should be avoided, as it seems likely to create significant >> complexity for little or no benefit. It seems to me that a switch that is >> capable of participating in the ACP should either participate in the ACP on >> all its physical ports, or should not participate in the ACP at all. I >> would not be surprised if that was the WG intent. But I could not find the >> text that says this. (Apologies if it is there and I missed it.) > > No. A node which is at the edge of the ACP will by definition have at > least one interface that is in the ACP, and at least one interface that > is not in the ACP. I can't see any way to avoid that. > > What you say definitely applies to L2 links: they must be either inside > or outside. (But even that gets complicated if running the ACP over a VLAN. > Then the statement becomes: each VLAN must be either inside or outside.) > > Hmm. There's a draft on this topic in the RFC queue, and I am quite > sure that ANIMA needs to start new work on the domain membership and > boundary issue. > > Regards, > Brian > >> >> Section 9 starts by saying it is informational. But the first paragraph >> says that some of the content is "necessary" for correct operation. Thus, >> it seems that some of the content is normative? (I am not sure, but I >> think the "necessary" material relates to what is needed to be a registrar?) >> >> Nits: >> The second and third paragraphs of section 6.11.1.1 on RPL start with >> duplicated text, and then go on to say different (complementary) things. >> There is no need for the repetition. >> >> The rank factor in 6.11.1.6 of 100 megabits as the boundary seems a fairly >> arbitrary choice. It may be that an arbitrary choice was needed. Could >> something be said? In particular, if someone looks at this 5 years from >> now, it may seem quite confusing. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> From nobody Fri Apr 10 14:27:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471E53A0DBD; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:27:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wKiyFBbcIUET; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C3CC3A0DBA; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB29B3897D; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D896E30; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:27:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Brian E Carpenter , rtg-dir@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <709d4f5a-69a7-463e-07f3-b11cc3a9e70b@joelhalpern.com> References: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> <709d4f5a-69a7-463e-07f3-b11cc3a9e70b@joelhalpern.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:27:12 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Joel M. Halpern wrote: > On Loopback, I understand your frustration with the lack of a good > definition. Given that IPv6 addressing architecture constraints, you need > some sort of interface. In practice, the way loopbacks are used seems to > match the need. So I do not object to the usage. just to the definition. > It would also be acceptable to simply craft a different term and clearly > define it if the usage is sufficiently different from existing > practice. Reading this thread, I was hoping you might be able to help us with a better definition then :-) We are doing exactly what OSPF and BGP does operationally on every platform that I have every worked on. We are just doing it with RPL. To me, it's *SO* obvious that it goes without saying, so now we are asked to say it, and we get into trouble because nobody before us bothered to say it. > On the final minor comment, it was specifically about the section on L2 > devices. Maybe something special is needed for the special case of a shared > network that is also a border network. But that seems very rare. And getting > the L2 switch to do the right packet forwarding for the hybrid case seems an > invitation to trouble. I'm not happy about any of the L2 text; I would have left it out completely. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6Q5KQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV6WggAkQ67xL4PMAnmoVCacqSmTK4i3dMxrE5S18OudocacUyZRTovDMv99jx0 NZqMNB/67XF2cQNopqRee9vARgfyr1Qt8LnwGgcG9L72hXV7997QKwX7f7Jmzj6N guaDeIy2V+eZ2y1pxdMLek7wh9EV90kUayyKf/Gn3KXs9cccmgjdnBrPIWE+5PQ+ JtFOdV7FxI7DsVCIBMRNh3qiWOZZO09FlUJ3fF0XAgUmPSf39OoGIHBd9SeXPV+u 7G2RSdlmY9eWmzipJJoH4uk3A/12IUllgWWzvmewwrheBktdTi5H/FE83NyudjT/ GVqI+Mt7a9J7zypO0m4Psc7NBQyJdA== =oiTM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Apr 10 14:35:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2453A0DE5; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:35:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n2RUyQzOGK0M; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D10403A0DE3; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48zWWd4cQ5z1p1sB; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:35:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1586554509; bh=xkIDquolfEgpaJ+Jw8RV8p9GqJIe7xZYza07lvKgX2Y=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ZEHWy6uWqODtfsti6XiwGhrBmmXz/nKUxE2xAs3NLj0lHnN3QR6wr/c1BC3KUuJQU dQCkSEyL/tM8R9RUyw+3sRov+rS9AKsupVeNFS5WBUY9Jtm9gUF9Q6m2LEsyK8hHRh EPG9aSpm+3V7BmsrDaJljcS5CB0bQf+eFlHE7LK4= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48zWWc4FtJz1nt6j; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:35:08 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson , Brian E Carpenter , rtg-dir@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org References: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> <709d4f5a-69a7-463e-07f3-b11cc3a9e70b@joelhalpern.com> <4750.1586554020@localhost> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <4908ff49-6db8-955b-faf3-26c840abefc6@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:35:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4750.1586554020@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:35:11 -0000 I am happy to propose some starting text (I am sure it will need further tuning) as a short definition of a Loopback Interface: Loopback Interface: A logical or virtual representation of connectivity for IP communication. It is distinct from any physical interface on the device. It is typically used to abstract a point of communication from any physical connectivity. If we want to elaborate, we could not that this provides an interface to anchor IPv6 addresses in accordance with the IPv6 addressing architecture. As for the L2 material, if the WG wants to remove it, I would be fine with that. It is clearly supplementary. I am just trying to avoid confusion if we choose to describe it. Yours, Joel On 4/10/2020 5:27 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > On Loopback, I understand your frustration with the lack of a good > > definition. Given that IPv6 addressing architecture constraints, you need > > some sort of interface. In practice, the way loopbacks are used seems to > > match the need. So I do not object to the usage. just to the definition. > > It would also be acceptable to simply craft a different term and clearly > > define it if the usage is sufficiently different from existing > > practice. > > Reading this thread, I was hoping you might be able to help us with a better > definition then :-) > > We are doing exactly what OSPF and BGP does operationally on every platform > that I have every worked on. We are just doing it with RPL. > > To me, it's *SO* obvious that it goes without saying, so now we are asked to > say it, and we get into trouble because nobody before us bothered to say it. > > > On the final minor comment, it was specifically about the section on L2 > > devices. Maybe something special is needed for the special case of a shared > > network that is also a border network. But that seems very rare. And getting > > the L2 switch to do the right packet forwarding for the hybrid case seems an > > invitation to trouble. > > I'm not happy about any of the L2 text; I would have left it out completely. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > From nobody Fri Apr 10 16:03:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805893A10B1; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgb6BeXJIlK3; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1476A3A10AB; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id x3so1378270pfp.7; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PT3pGQJvlhqEk/KexV+JKgj68mW1V6s2Iv94UjG5EKM=; b=rKPJ4/dSjCNdk3Oz+ichFUEw4cVvaEgsz6cfkrczNiHITCna3mjVGJ2ef0J4bRDnpx EJWMI6tS6AqgDCMK0JerLIOOMG1LURW4lPlLTE8r5lxWThF8cY0voZJhvD03RJTpoPUg 3YUfmtIAd4SjmSL1ZjtGVDCoYkbOuvbSbCJDPhjJZDrAa69wXvY9Cnw7LuBBddOIWrpI o/keBXN1AJxy4zOdFdUyXAE6inbvi7VD3z0yMf02wilooduxUfVabUaEufVzJdMagbBr nliLgm4G6k5RxR4tORxQduWtRK/U/Ew3d/lEVU60btvInx4VPdjDAbavBUoNiEo7ZAPu 1uEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PT3pGQJvlhqEk/KexV+JKgj68mW1V6s2Iv94UjG5EKM=; b=WOrldln97UJKB50MKJALyNNnBI8jqtVN9IrDpPjMS7ciHBuQCPraAcqDGVuz0PQtkK iYZWHkadeAQa7AceZB9xssVzxl69/eU34NfNoWuohxksBKVqnAMm9uo4kmXrVbVeVzc/ m9f2/TWofgKsHiwdcPF5SgsAmqRDIo8XpvA2E8+wLosPVv6yakfTuqtSA+p3eCkKTYbY 6Z6f3NIl6HK/N82vo8e0gxTcI5eXs6bh6TDYtHRYoxcjakUhThQ5bTHhSTKOOd3D/zTk TjY7I/egd0FdSU2I8vKUptwahZAnr+clUYqF/YmeLwmqRo3OZN1TlOmMYvC9sQD643Mw PuFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYeqOam2oXkgJX3Nc8jywNoP4eaYCjx8nO9jMRVcovdX7kUsuiq plEO2L1xvU8BZPOgWMP6h/1OkJoj X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIc1ijovYQ6Wh1QhV22G+P1TeWMFKInOsJDr8G9ANObUo6Gc0GEM+R/sLPmcyvs5U9NLS0iRQ== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9104:: with SMTP id 4mr7374303pfh.168.1586559806335; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mm18sm2679554pjb.39.2020.04.10.16.03.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:03:25 -0700 (PDT) To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Michael Richardson , rtg-dir@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org References: <158648497631.26678.9121665060210659827@ietfa.amsl.com> <1280ef73-a21c-63d9-3de9-2c4f7e68e10a@gmail.com> <709d4f5a-69a7-463e-07f3-b11cc3a9e70b@joelhalpern.com> <4750.1586554020@localhost> <4908ff49-6db8-955b-faf3-26c840abefc6@joelhalpern.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <9b359742-a3ae-351f-9c4e-48f66628f321@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:03:20 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4908ff49-6db8-955b-faf3-26c840abefc6@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 23:03:29 -0000 On 11-Apr-20 09:35, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I am happy to propose some starting text (I am sure it will need further > tuning) as a short definition of a Loopback Interface: > Loopback Interface: A logical or virtual representation of > connectivity for IP communication. It is distinct from any > physical interface on the device. It is typically used to > abstract a point of communication from any physical connectivity. That would work for me. > If we want to elaborate, we could not that this provides an interface to > anchor IPv6 addresses in accordance with the IPv6 addressing architecture. Right. That's the only thing that's different from the IPv4 case. Brian > As for the L2 material, if the WG wants to remove it, I would be fine > with that. It is clearly supplementary. I am just trying to avoid > confusion if we choose to describe it. > > Yours, > Joel > > > On 4/10/2020 5:27 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> > On Loopback, I understand your frustration with the lack of a good >> > definition. Given that IPv6 addressing architecture constraints, you need >> > some sort of interface. In practice, the way loopbacks are used seems to >> > match the need. So I do not object to the usage. just to the definition. >> > It would also be acceptable to simply craft a different term and clearly >> > define it if the usage is sufficiently different from existing >> > practice. >> >> Reading this thread, I was hoping you might be able to help us with a better >> definition then :-) >> >> We are doing exactly what OSPF and BGP does operationally on every platform >> that I have every worked on. We are just doing it with RPL. >> >> To me, it's *SO* obvious that it goes without saying, so now we are asked to >> say it, and we get into trouble because nobody before us bothered to say it. >> >> > On the final minor comment, it was specifically about the section on L2 >> > devices. Maybe something special is needed for the special case of a shared >> > network that is also a border network. But that seems very rare. And getting >> > the L2 switch to do the right packet forwarding for the hybrid case seems an >> > invitation to trouble. >> >> I'm not happy about any of the L2 text; I would have left it out completely. >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- >> >> >> > From nobody Mon Apr 13 23:06:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60EC3A03FF; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C1cBMtw3qpav; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98B5A3A03FE; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 18:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B136B548017; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id A6871440040; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:38:02 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: ietf-secretariat@ietf.org Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408013802.GW28965@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 23:06:42 -0700 Subject: [Anima] Pls fix: Wrong webex for anima interim created by datatracker X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 01:38:15 -0000 Dear secretariat (if not right recipient for thi, pls. tell me who) Cc: wgchairs, maybe someone listening here knows how to fix this. Bcc: anima for the group wondering why they got a new webex invite. I just noticed, that the webex listed on datatracker for the virtual ANIMA meeting is wrong, e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-anima-01/session/anima Shows a webex URL of https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?MTID=m16f8e0d12f6d12c3c37984c73f20efb8 which is not a valid IETF webex URL and i fear it wouldn't work (it gives weird info when i now click on it). [ Expanation ? I did create the virtual meeting request simply through the standard datatracker page designated for it. The only way how i can explain this wrong creation of the webex meeting information is that datatracker, when automatically creating the webex session through my browser somehow used another personal webex account i have (somewhere in the webex cookies on my browsers ?) instead of the anima WG chair webex account, and therefore choose the wrong webex server. Obviously, i had to be logged into datatracker with my anima chair account to even create the interrim, so even though this is the only explanation i can bring up, it doesn't make sense to me either. ] In any case. As a poor double victim of weird webex account management, i would like to ask: If possible, please fix the webex URLs and dialin info for the virtual ANIMA meeting on datatracker (above URL) to a correct ietf webex that i have just created for the purpose. Otherwise, folks might simply go to the datatracker page, click on the webex and end up nowhere. Here is the correct webex info: IETF 2020 ANIMA virtual meeting 1 (Webex) Thursday, April 9, 2020 6:00 am | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) | 2 hrs Meeting number (access code): 614 444 982 Meeting password: AMvJRJwr392 When it's time, join the meeting. https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m378d8c28c45a9f786868c586138a0450 Thank you so much Toerless From nobody Tue Apr 14 03:03:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F02F3A0974; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 03:03:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z2s8qz9HSuTK; 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Received: from VI1PR07MB3502.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:802:1a::22) by VI1PR07MB3871.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:2f::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.24; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:03:05 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB3502.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::50f:3508:da66:c7fc]) by VI1PR07MB3502.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::50f:3508:da66:c7fc%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.024; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:03:05 +0000 To: Michael Richardson References: <157123777786.7830.10713306244839546046.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9637.1574756997@localhost> <2FA2728E-6484-4A69-992A-479D8053354E@cooperw.in> <20062.1576526178@localhost> <5DF90E0C.9020603@btconnect.com> <28309.1577821075@localhost> <5E0BBC17.5070709@btconnect.com> <30513.1577829694@localhost> <5E0DE216.3020201@btconnect.com> <18823.1578076471@localhost> Cc: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org From: tom petch Message-ID: <5E958A55.5060407@btconnect.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:03:01 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; 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I suspect that it should be - perhaps a note to the RFC Editor is called for. In the Security Considerations I encounter MTIM which I suspect should be MITM (and which needs expanding on first use in s.5). In the YANG module, I see two references in square brackets which suggests that they are in XML/HTML and not plain text whereas there is a requirement for YANG modules to be in plain text so that they can be extracted from the RFC. Tom Petch On 03/01/2020 18:34, Michael Richardson wrote: > > From nobody Tue Apr 14 04:22:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23703A0C44; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 04:22:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id COF17rhpJfmF; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 04:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCC333A0C32; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 04:22:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=876; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1586863374; x=1588072974; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nB96gX+WJmQwSgsBJ3wEpWsv6zhLSI0kZsHhC3VBORA=; b=baMS41wAinT8qxQki+iHkCw40U2+mmXIO3D4E4Kad3TFoP5KTrOiJzO9 pWV4ObtioNtsrbqoQi4N86kQJ3lm6a8DJJgevZcF0A5xAe6y6qhI059oi 1vUaYUjm4qcT2hIg9qarqsEsWXNvC8PV0bnUuszGLRGiXKfxSWfI4lHvI c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B0CgCmnJVe/xbLJq1mHAEBAQEBBwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BEQEEBAEBgXsCgXaBciASKo0eh2glmVKBegoBAQEMAQEvBAEBhEQCgiY6BA0?= =?us-ascii?q?CAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBQRthWKFcAEBAQECATo/BQsLGC5XBhODJoJdIK0Ngie?= =?us-ascii?q?KR4E4AYxOggCBEScMEIJNPoROg0SCLAShZo9xgkyCZZRrHZwpqGKDOwIEBgU?= =?us-ascii?q?CFYFsAh0qgS0zGggbFWUBgj4+EhgNqFk/AzCPbgEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.72,382,1580774400"; d="scan'208";a="25311884" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 14 Apr 2020 11:22:51 +0000 Received: from ams3-vpn-dhcp933.cisco.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp933.cisco.com [10.61.67.165]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03EBMlXe020101 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:22:51 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Eliot Lear In-Reply-To: <5E958A55.5060407@btconnect.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:22:47 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CAB8293-7E58-4DF0-8359-6D12ED3C02E6@cisco.com> References: <157123777786.7830.10713306244839546046.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9637.1574756997@localhost> <2FA2728E-6484-4A69-992A-479D8053354E@cooperw.in> <20062.1576526178@localhost> <5DF90E0C.9020603@btconnect.com> <28309.1577821075@localhost> <5E0BBC17.5070709@btconnect.com> <30513.1577829694@localhost> <5E0DE216.3020201@btconnect.com> <18823.1578076471@localhost> <5E958A55.5060407@btconnect.com> To: tom petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.67.165, ams3-vpn-dhcp933.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:22:56 -0000 Hi, IMHO: > On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:03, tom petch wrote: >=20 > The IESG approval of this I-D caused me to look again at it:-( >=20 > I note that part of the formal specification is in CDDL and while = other DDL - ASN.1, SMI, YANG - are bracketed with CODE BEGINS CODE ENDS = - the CDDL is not. I suspect that it should be - perhaps a note to the = RFC Editor is called for. Yes. >=20 > In the Security Considerations I encounter MTIM which I suspect should = be MITM (and which needs expanding on first use in s.5). >=20 Editorial. > In the YANG module, I see two references in square brackets which = suggests that they are in XML/HTML and not plain text whereas there is a = requirement for YANG modules to be in plain text so that they can be = extracted from the RFC. Editorial. Thanks for looking! Eliot= From nobody Wed Apr 15 08:55:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02473A0B4D; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=OHAYi5uY; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=D2XZHxpT Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S9ADHiGZeLVP; 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Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:55:03 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: "anima@ietf.org" , "draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp Thread-Index: AdYTPgc+KH33NJPLTzqD1AvbbQYlBQ== Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:55:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d55adedf-a81d-447a-a355-08d7e1555c66 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4205: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0374433C81 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(376002)(346002)(8936002)(66446008)(450100002)(6506007)(86362001)(186003)(66556008)(2906002)(71200400001)(5660300002)(478600001)(66476007)(26005)(316002)(33656002)(8676002)(66946007)(52536014)(81156014)(9686003)(64756008)(110136005)(55016002)(7696005)(76116006)(9326002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: IBkJi7JHlFrZc9uFzWDQGOe/ndVeom9VPbcBR5Tfnj32oXduEiJW5jzlby0gIK5/VguCh/4vonjDaXg4aXyQ9xZNohTiY76PvWGuwK9okvIv+cwgXwHu9LPB+GkJPnTqQFuG4SQctRdW5w0ON6Sf/AwU2ACFZY56/zYOH/3ELIWA754CD5CA1JicEWUhGbp1ihaTGWjPnHUzCc3Eamu5S1kuITacNFM6AadA8UpFAxe9pmBr4N1Rt4Xbw35VYgcisWNjn/WVClwsKFVe6vxQ5oQvxluZfSpkz1B0/DzOjmH/DnP+XX75/EoKQpvCHW/XLRTE0cvaOoX3IVsaT2e5b6iXuuEiZHF9s7qB40ZPZfDHxEBAXoz7PlunSjC0Bi7vigScez7p2W2TJ4sLhLTvvo6gWbCZltHA8y1AjOKKLA8QM9mol0QKvRDVSJzqdvbu x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: q0cgjvkmRWl5BrMdSCIvwkcn91Efen2qYypVEfJ7vdiC/ForasOj90p7t6rM79+xQ/B1B+InQPc9RaUNbjSin4hsBH6BVDqHHe5zpTJa/Xl3dMf2lGWLoVc+THSbVNtDalIuRnDHAClSyslaZV1Yvg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MN2PR11MB43660D14E0430A0A0E641E5CB5DB0MN2PR11MB4366namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d55adedf-a81d-447a-a355-08d7e1555c66 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Apr 2020 15:55:03.3095 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VYeCRmTvuBw8688Lpm6tn5gxcIRXK8NnWMkV9bPFw1pIAq0UT5v/i3oWEpAhOHOfwT/p3z/Rey5WDg9XwekUOg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4205 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:55:29 -0000 --_000_MN2PR11MB43660D14E0430A0A0E641E5CB5DB0MN2PR11MB4366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp was raised on the IEEE-= IETF coordination alias. Paul Congdon (Chair of IEEE 802.1 Maintenance Task Group, and very familiar= with LLDP) has reviewed and provided comments as an individual. His opinion is that this would be a serious misuse of the LLDP protocol and= cause problems for implementations. The general expectation and design of= LLDP is that the information contained in the PDUs is fairly static in nat= ure and does not change frequently. Assuming the IPv6 packets are intendin= g to implement their own protocol and will be changing frequently, encapsul= ating an IPv6 packet inside an LLDP TLV would signal a change on each trans= mission and possibly cause an SNMP TRAP on each packet received by a tradit= ional implementation. I basically support Paul's comments here - I don't think that we should be = trying to tunnel IPv6 traffic over LLDP. [As an individual] Would it be possible to carry some static information in= LLDP that could be used to setup the autonomic control plane outside of LL= DP? This would presumably require bridges to have some minimal support for= a native IPv6 host stack. The issue of not forwarding IPv6 packets for an= interface in L2 mode could potentially be mitigated by targeting the IPv6 = packets to the peer interface MAC address, or possibly use the "Nearest Bri= dge group multicast MAC address" (i.e. 01-80-C2-00-00-0E)? Regards, Rob --_000_MN2PR11MB43660D14E0430A0A0E641E5CB5DB0MN2PR11MB4366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

The use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp = was raised on the IEEE-IETF coordination alias.

 

Paul Congdon (Chair of IEEE 802.1 Maintenance Task G= roup, and very familiar with LLDP) has reviewed and provided comments as an= individual.

 

His opinion is that this would be a serious misuse o= f the LLDP protocol and cause problems for implementations.  The gener= al expectation and design of LLDP is that the information contained in the = PDUs is fairly static in nature and does not change frequently.  Assuming the IPv6 packets are intending to im= plement their own protocol and will be changing frequently, encapsulating a= n IPv6 packet inside an LLDP TLV would signal a change on each transmission= and possibly cause an SNMP TRAP on each packet received by a traditional implementation.

 

I basically support Paul’s comments here ̵= 1; I don’t think that we should be trying to tunnel IPv6 traffic over= LLDP. 

 

[As an individual] Would it be possible to carry som= e static information in LLDP that could be used to setup the autonomic cont= rol plane outside of LLDP?  This would presumably require bridges to h= ave some minimal support for a native IPv6 host stack.  The issue of not forwarding IPv6 packets for an interfac= e in L2 mode could potentially be mitigated by targeting the IPv6 packets t= o the peer interface MAC address, or possibly use the “Nearest Bridge= group multicast MAC address” (i.e. 01-80-C2-00-00-0E)?

 

Regards,
Rob

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bnRlcnByZXRzIGl0IHRvIGJlICgyKSB0aGVuIGFsbCBpcyBmaW5lLg0KDQogICAgPiBBIGZldyBy ZW1haW5pbmcgbml0cyBmb3VuZCBkdXJpbmcgcmVhZGluZzoNCg0KVGhhbmtzLiBJIGhhdmUgdXBk YXRlZCBteSBjb3B5IG9mIHRoZSBYTUwsIGFuZCBJJ2xsIHBhc3MgdGhpcyBvbiB0byB0aGUgUkZD LWVkaXRvci4NCk5vdGhpbmcgaXMgZ29pbmcgZm9yd2FyZCB1bnRpbCB0aGUgQUNQIExDIGVuZHMg YW5kIHRoZSBJRVNHIGRvZXMgaXQncyByZXZpZXdzLg0KDQotLQ0KTWljaGFlbCBSaWNoYXJkc29u IDxtY3IrSUVURkBzYW5kZWxtYW4uY2E+LCBTYW5kZWxtYW4gU29mdHdhcmUgV29ya3MNCiAtPSBJ UHY2IElvVCBjb25zdWx0aW5nID0tDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Thu Apr 16 06:22:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AC33A07BA for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:22:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T82s0WLUPDGZ for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lizzard.sbs.de (lizzard.sbs.de [194.138.37.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACF7D3A07B9 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.sbs.de (mail2.sbs.de [192.129.41.66]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03GDMOhR022741 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:22:24 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99ER1MSX.ww902.siemens.net (defthw99er1msx.ww902.siemens.net [139.22.70.71]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03GDMO1D026709 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:22:24 +0200 Received: from DENBGAT9ER3MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.84) by DEFTHW99ER1MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.468.0; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:22:24 +0200 Received: from DENBGAT9EM4MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.11.5]) by DENBGAT9ER3MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.22.70.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:22:23 +0200 From: "Fries, Steffen" To: Toerless Eckert , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Next steps for BRSKI-AE Thread-Index: AdYT8YMm4JLRHBUQToGHlskZNQPiAg== Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:22:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [139.22.70.34] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6C9F0E527F94F4692731382340B33782850B27EDENBGAT9EM4MSXw_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Next steps for BRSKI-AE X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 13:22:40 -0000 --_000_E6C9F0E527F94F4692731382340B33782850B27EDENBGAT9EM4MSXw_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Toerless, During the interim ANIMA WG meeting last week we discussed the current stat= us of BRSKI-AE and also asked for WG adoption. No objections have been rais= ed in the meeting. What would be the next steps? I understood that the acce= ptance would be done via the mailing list. Best regards Steffen -- Steffen Fries Siemens AG Corporate Technology Research in Digitalization and Automation Cybersecurity Technology CT RDA CST Otto-Hahn-Ring 6 81739 Muenchen, Germany --_000_E6C9F0E527F94F4692731382340B33782850B27EDENBGAT9EM4MSXw_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Toerless,

 

During the interim ANIMA WG meeting last week we dis= cussed the current status of BRSKI-AE and also asked for WG adoption. No ob= jections have been raised in the meeting. What would be the next steps? I u= nderstood that the acceptance would be done via the mailing list.

 

Best regards

Steffen

 

--
Steffen Fries
Siemens AG
Corporate Technology
Research in Digitalization and Automation
Cybersecurity Technology
CT RDA CST
Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
81739 Muenchen, Germany

 

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 23c71a52-2ee6-4d6a-cb07-08d7e5d234fc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2020 08:58:48.9240 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: LnxqsYGAZ+mW/s1f2cU84KKOvhkUhhQ29bFOEP3OlO/OqkAI0opiHwbNTwcJA8nyqgYqlNe8GIuVAL6LxYkwIQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1914 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Addressing RTG-DIR review (was Re: Last Call Expired: ) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:59:05 -0000 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cm9sLXBsYW5lLTI0LnR4dD4NCg0KDQogICAgUGxlYXNlIERPIE5PVCByZXBseSB0byB0aGlzIGVt YWlsLg0KDQogICAgSS1EOiA8ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1hbmltYS1hdXRvbm9taWMtY29udHJvbC1wbGFu ZS0yNC50eHQ+DQogICAgRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgVVJMOiBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYu b3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWFuaW1hLWF1dG9ub21pYy1jb250cm9sLXBsYW5lLw0KDQogICAg SUVURiBMYXN0IENhbGwgaGFzIGVuZGVkLCBhbmQgdGhlIHN0YXRlIGhhcyBiZWVuIGNoYW5nZWQg dG8NCiAgICBXYWl0aW5nIGZvciBBRCBHby1BaGVhZC4NCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Apr 27 08:16:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454E63A0C94 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=0.5, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sFzM66CND5QT for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62EB83A0C75 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EA338981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861674CC; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:16:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Brian E. Carpenter" , anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:16:24 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brian, I was looking for the multicast destination for GRASP DULL messages. Section 6 tells me that IANA has not yet assigned it. I'm surprised we didn't ask for an Early Allocation. Is it worth asking now? Did I miss something? -15 document says "TBD1" -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6m90QACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXX4Af9Gd42AoQS6YJ/QEhR+15xmwEk7XpayVQynLSO/UAuyuFAw0GLTpRa3WQJ vMtwtrBSVwZjLX0RwVzZuYZhFoDMzNQ1dOfZ39pvdbrIWVyhLWHZJ6A9NkVn3nrA YKdyApRDGjVill+KwmFqgsTsGoOZZAfJbIq7rlq4peDmrOk+F/j/PDWP94rEmOW9 AEeI9/5mPxFS+7SCMFck99Akn9nQWgjZxhWQZApblLBFtp3Sl4yxFKM/rwzJ1X4p pEvqxz42Ttnpbv+TGkquSOk/xjQnpoPNZkljRWrgP4jNT15V/64pD119engAHTYR PH+iSBPH4s+EL5LocH5zjPPWg39hWA== =uxCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 08:44:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906F43A0A9C for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:44:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FwaDfYlU3h4i for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89E203A0D87 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA21138981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1F34CC; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:44:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: "Brian E. Carpenter" , anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <30733.1588000580@localhost> References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:44:24 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Michael Richardson wrote: > Brian, I was looking for the multicast destination for GRASP DULL messages. > Section 6 tells me that IANA has not yet assigned it. > I'm surprised we didn't ask for an Early Allocation. > Is it worth asking now? I found it in the IANA list. I suggest the XML be updated to indicate that 0x13 was assigned, or maybe you already did this with the RFC-editor? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6m/coACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWo3QgArd2C9WYFY1wzy6drkCHwGCv/svThvc4mTuOtlu88H0D7RWZ+IJHmzcHt L3djh5qE9G9KzVxNuQwqXtNYX1F7Re+BqrjMCv8Sl/Z5HoS8AxIXXhQS1xd9iIOz whqvK6kBkdFO94ZZYJy6qxYsEI9NfnAJQ1VtyjRhzgfy6/q9qdc1Aw427yHXVNfY cPY2f7rUtSxFLhKYWxj/1Nw0J7Uoo6PP+9WtjYYwWgrw6erqJq9BTjsPFPOp3WN5 ztvtwJfikwgiXFGcabQygjaFvI4ow/M+6V9C/fafJ9DzQyLWanoXTuSkrpzuohM7 zR10EghEggdMPd7JUK9Rp1kAv1j/cQ== =BpdG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 12:02:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76F63A1924; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:02:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yutJjGZl61Om; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94A083A1947; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC6B38981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A5D10E; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:02:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "anima\@ietf.org" , ieee-ietf-coord@ietf.org cc: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , paul.congdon@tallac.com In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:02:58 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Thank you for the comments on draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp. I include them below completely, and I'll reply to this message and address the points inline in a couple of emails. Rob Wilton \(rwilton\) wrote: > Paul Congdon (Chair of IEEE 802.1 Maintenance Task Group, and very > familiar with LLDP) has reviewed and provided comments as an > individual. > His opinion is that this would be a serious misuse of the LLDP protocol > and cause problems for implementations. The general expectation and > design of LLDP is that the information contained in the PDUs is fairly > static in nature and does not change frequently. Assuming the IPv6 > packets are intending to implement their own protocol and will be > changing frequently, encapsulating an IPv6 packet inside an LLDP TLV > would signal a change on each transmission and possibly cause an SNMP > TRAP on each packet received by a traditional implementation. Russ Housley also forwarded Paul's comments directly to me: Paul Congdon wrote: > I've had a brief look at this draft. My personal belief is that this is a > gross miss-use of the LLDP protocol. LLDP is NOT a general L2 transport > protocol. It is intended to exchange a 'relatively' static local database > with neighbors. When an LLDP agent receives a frame, it is supposed to > compare what it received with what it received the last time and if > anything is different, it will throw away all of the previous information, > replace the database with the most recently received information and > 'wake-up' the higher layers to process the changes. The expectation (and > design center for the protocol) is that things do NOT change frequently. > Assuming the IPv6 packets are intending to implement their own protocol and > will be changing frequently, encapsulating an IPv6 packet inside an LLDP > TLV would signal a change on each transmission and possibly cause an SNMP > TRAP on each packet received by a traditional implementation. If I > understand the use case correctly, the draft is seriously miss-using the > protocol and I believe others within 802.1 would agree with me. rob> I basically support Paul's comments here - I don't think that we should rob> be trying to tunnel IPv6 traffic over LLDP. rob> [As an individual] Would it be possible to carry some static rob> information in LLDP that could be used to setup the autonomic control rob> plane outside of LLDP? This would presumably require bridges to have rob> some minimal support for a native IPv6 host stack. The issue of not rob> forwarding IPv6 packets for an interface in L2 mode could potentially rob> be mitigated by targeting the IPv6 packets to the peer interface MAC rob> address, or possibly use the "Nearest Bridge group multicast MAC rob> address" (i.e. 01-80-C2-00-00-0E)? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6nLE8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXjYQf8ClVdgyc0KmVg7pSSvBDcW+iJe2UopwfHUSPobs3j0qPA2ZNMZSkEeNgK NK3yVX8ZSwONCNISet3qFi2F920J3/lwcjlT5VXMoxtYJ8ezoTQUjPOlKoOFC01e uFQQ1byzR+jfFmzACJR28VqfHt6eAGNB/8NsEePXTKOSmKgkl7h5GpJaSMkPfPJ4 4s7u9piBychRY/9/ApoRgYUs6GnMQ/0MST9IOwCe6MNHwHx+2SNY6PdLUuNTrHZ6 dEI7uVEr3GJXeiXlzu1yv31uWjSczbsmJ16HKdhBmJCBzTw0Hg9dkoUP5qFGerT7 yp+9J2bUDQ75bwTCievxz1APia/+UQ== =EfVk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 12:57:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F3D3A1B88; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:57:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ApINEAFtqqyV; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2957E3A1B82; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FE638981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABED510E; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:57:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: "anima\@ietf.org" , ieee-ietf-coord@ietf.org CC: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , paul.congdon@tallac.com, Pascal Thubert In-Reply-To: <19580.1588014159@localhost> References: <19580.1588014159@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:57:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Michael Richardson wrote: > His opinion is that this would be a serious misuse of the LLDP protocol > and cause problems for implementations. The general expectation and > design of LLDP is that the information contained in the PDUs is fairly > static in nature and does not change frequently. Assuming the IPv6 I understand how this proposal is a bit distasteful, and I hope that we can come up with some alternative ideas (see next email). I don't know how LLDP efforts are split between forwarding plane and control plane on all systems. In designs I have been involved with, all LLDP packets go to the control plane CPU, and they are decapsulated there. In such a system, the IPv6 TLV(s) would be removed before the database is updated or compared, so a system that supports this proposal would never emit spurious SNMP alerts. If you take a look at the target use cases for the ACP at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24#section-3 and all of https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8368.html we are trying to create a stable replacement for out-of-band control. Without this new channel there isn't a place for SNMP (or RESTCONF) traps to travel over. >> packets are intending to implement their own protocol and will be >> changing frequently, encapsulating an IPv6 packet inside an LLDP TLV >> would signal a change on each transmission and possibly cause an SNMP >> TRAP on each packet received by a traditional implementation. I understand your concern is for systems that do *not* implement this extension, and that they might generate a stream of SNMP Traps due to changes. This is a valid concern, but it is not how the ACP would work. The first part of the ACP process, described at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24#section-6.3 is to send out "multicast" GRASP DULL messages. I put multicast in quotes, because really, we want to send one out on each physical link in the identical way that LLDP sends out announcements. We could, as Rob has suggested: rob> [As an individual] Would it be possible to carry some static rob> information in LLDP that could be used to setup the autonomic control rob> plane outside of LLDP? do exactly this. The DULL message that I described above would go out with RFC8138/RFC6282 header compression and a CBOR encoded GRASP AN_FLOOD message be unchanging. It's 82 bytes including the TLV overhead, with the CBOR message itself being 67 bytes, including two IPv6 addresses (32-bytes). (I didn't count the mandatory ChassisID/Port ID or Time to Live TLVs) (Unfortunately, identical, and also unfortunately, redundant with the source IPv6 address, which LOWPAN_IPHC had already successfully compressed out. But, this is ethernet not 802.15.4 so not a huge problem) I put my spreadsheet calculation and HTML output at: http://www.sandelman.ca/SSW/ietf/anima/ipv6-LLDP/ [neither an attachment nor HTML will survive the IETF mailarchive, so I am not putting them inline] So a system that does not implement this mechanism will see a single additional TLV, which will not change over time. Systems that do support this will be able to respond using the same channel, and will know the sender supports this. We could, as you suggest, just use LLDP to signal this, and that's the subject of my next email. If we did that, then we'd need only one TLV, and we'd drop the compressed IPv6/UDP header, saving 9 bytes. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6nOTgACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUpsQf/ZxNKBawJQ7C4ui6aLGp9n3gdVPVyQr8QrLAr/VIuZ8ili/GaaazpBmfx DU1F/oTYDvRt8XroJJ0gWnOIni5CtttwvdHA3a5LIHxxncDQZWIIff46t6vmstw6 LFSs3jjt+4aO3X0bpnLo7MeVG1bYBSbmOI/ypIRv0fB7AyC9oLWspx2rQee0VDON oca8Kb2Lh2hHIoGRbHaheS5OAduhKHi7qGqfh8+/loxFjQlTEYTO8tEJ0/q0ngq6 mzKr3q5ieIC4fGCxOcwVyXfNyXtGxJ8TSJzKQuuVbkbEDYZGCNbnWqWQluOL/elL g3mGd7lVAvtMtuCbKs4n68BZNEtyuA== =klQ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 13:14:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B923A1BD3; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:14:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VM-81icuxrZA; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EA123A1BD2; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A2738981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258F310E; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: "anima\@ietf.org" , ieee-ietf-coord@ietf.org CC: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , paul.congdon@tallac.com, Pascal Thubert In-Reply-To: <19580.1588014159@localhost> References: <19580.1588014159@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Use of LLDP in draft-richardson-anima-ipv6-lldp X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:26 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Michael Richardson wrote: rob> [As an individual] Would it be possible to carry some static rob> information in LLDP that could be used to setup the autonomic control rob> plane outside of LLDP? This would presumably require bridges to have rob> some minimal support for a native IPv6 host stack. The issue of not rob> forwarding IPv6 packets for an interface in L2 mode could potentially rob> be mitigated by targeting the IPv6 packets to the peer interface MAC rob> address, or possibly use the "Nearest Bridge group multicast MAC rob> address" (i.e. 01-80-C2-00-00-0E)? There are other constructions possible, but a lot of this depends upon ASIC forwarding plane details to which I am not privy. If there are datasheets that I can refer to that do not require NDAs, I would be very happy to do my own homework here. {Not a VLSI designer, but I played one on TV back in 2000} It has been my assumption that LLDP is not forwarded within L2 switch fabric ASICs because of the ethernet-type. I'm told that this is *definitely* how 802.1X port-control is implemented. It would be great to confirm this with vendors of silicon. In discussions about this document, it has been suggested, as you suggest above, that using 01-80-C2-00-00-0E multicast address may be in fact how many fabrics exempt LLDP frames from being forwarded. What would happen if we used IPv6 0x86DD with this destination? The goal is that it would *NEVER* get forwarded, no MATTER HOW MISCONFIGURED the switch has become. With great power (SDN), comes new ways to screw up. {Assume some first-term co-op's code got "devops" shipped to the SDN controller} This channel is how one recovers, so ideally, this channel works when the switch fabric is in it's boot-up default configuration. Maybe I'm being naive and ridiculous: the LLDP is just configured really early by the control plane, but presumably it is also well protected against getting broken. rob> This would presumably require bridges to have rob> some minimal support for a native IPv6 host stack. We are assuming that an IPv6 stack is easy to fit into the control plane CPU of even the smallest switch controller. We have multiple instances (open source: Contiki, OpenWSN, RIOT-OS, plus multiple vendor stacks) of the v6-stack *AND* routing protocol (RFC6550-RPL) fitting into less than 64K of code space, and only a few kilobytes of ram. Meanwhile, many switches now have 64G of ram and Quad-Xeons... To be clear: I ideally want the option to *AVOID* *ALL* of the NPUs, packet classifiers, CAMs that like to parse v4 and v6 frames at high speed. Toerless would like the ACP to optionally *use* them, and there a good argument for this, and the ACP is a mesh network, and *can* have multiple channels, both slow and fast between nodes, with the faster one taking all the management traffic, unless/until it fails. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6nPRwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVVSQgAtMB448ZVD4v4fzEeWpNavwkTlXwcKy0lgzCioY3Wb7mdHQNtz9MMoSu0 zr9lV4Ro5UMozTFhNDoMz5OzEUEbXE0y7gEbJvC27w6Vw6r3BYV136xzvVzWSemi l0fivKcF1f1zSei7ck6geAbpyEB+2NEGjIK+pH6Km+zi3JzsEDOGjUz8yYlIL5O7 uw+hujkL9SvjhErAdVOW0CCAiLjgZF78KQHDoadcLUmLlESkIFDe/wz+/+0qfJko hozWg+swdz3slSZ1effJQT2l9JvDhBQanj0BZ6Qiddh9ihTdipb/ap0fgacoDxn/ kzqo7E5Yi+jcexzlXhs3AekrOsjM4g== =1n6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 14:55:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ABD3A0BCF for ; 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Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c1sm12954248pfo.152.2020.04.27.14.55.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:55:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson , anima@ietf.org References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:55:18 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5900.1588002250@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:55:25 -0000 On 28-Apr-20 03:44, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Michael Richardson wrote: > > Brian, I was looking for the multicast destination for GRASP DULL messages. > > > Section 6 tells me that IANA has not yet assigned it. > > I'm surprised we didn't ask for an Early Allocation. > > Is it worth asking now? > > I found it in the IANA list. > I suggest the XML be updated to indicate that 0x13 was assigned, or maybe you > already did this with the RFC-editor? No, that normally gets resolved when they actually start editing, but yes of course it's on my checklist. I'm quite sure the early aassignments were announced on the list, but when I forget what values were pre-assigned I just go and look at my code: ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_6 = ipaddress.IPv6Address('ff02::13') # LL multicast ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_4 = ipaddress.IPv4Address('224.0.0.119') # LL multicast GRASP_LISTEN_PORT = 7017 # IANA port number Regards Brian From nobody Mon Apr 27 15:14:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC67C3A0C49 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:14:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjWzRqwLhgQO for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B81263A0C48 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CF338981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED4810E; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:14:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brian E Carpenter cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:14:50 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brian E Carpenter wrote: > No, that normally gets resolved when they actually start editing, but > yes of course it's on my checklist. > I'm quite sure the early aassignments were announced on the list, but > when I forget what values were pre-assigned I just go and look at my > code: I thought that early allocations were supposed to go into the document so they don't get assigned twice by mistake. > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_6 = ipaddress.IPv6Address('ff02::13') # LL multicast > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_4 = ipaddress.IPv4Address('224.0.0.119') # LL multicast > GRASP_LISTEN_PORT = 7017 # IANA port number Thank you. Is there any reason why the source port (for DULL, and normal) can't be port 7017 as well? It clearly could be any port... -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6nWVQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUu4Qf/Y5pXgYq+LAdv14Lh1WseXVe45sAEduZCKr0x7tCMWgtVN3EjMtJ/6cjA o7XQcfAn6XwGLTtSaFuSPb0XXxWTvFpkdIxUDy3lqh7/v5lfSnLoIhiPV0sypTwx yB8XQh/SJueuPAVmtn/NMXjUqPMJMTUMGB2jhmXy1v7Ivm48hkkqKUGpY3eHTRFb FB0h6U0YYjHq6T8WX7vv9wexKvmLC/MHpMDs4sphONj96xbeIklwbjq+Yr8ZoG2e IWWLI8q0oFb5hrIDzmfAWy8e1jSfNPhfnGPI03h8zWmKfM7GmxbM/8yVm0xIh/LA StR/RY/RIQvy0gKkZEjJ3UBn07L3sg== =HdWV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 15:22:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B8C3A0C81 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6YrLVfu0QwL for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84ECC3A0C7E for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499zm22zVqz1p4NX; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1588026130; bh=+3uNWD2Eqar9APa0kmXDMRxNgbfJ8KDxTYUdRceIgrk=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=NcgWtJnZsurpsx4BrJMuQ+H+UMpp0HdZqbZULMu3f2O+1HE7fvsmvdUH+8t657ibt 32VYkoaZl0Qj3rdSF3hw2Y5Jh76smKsdv9yFVnrWk+NthjG99+kHPeSDeC9D9AvJVf j3DxqXUnTzAw+5uVhMbFTY6RRB5rezBspvLAyBEY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 499zm16Xdbz1p1tZ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:22:09 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2714.1588025685@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:22:12 -0000 I suspect that for most GRASP purposes, even if there is a layer 2 network between the parties, we are not much worried about how LAG handles GRASP packets? If we care about that, then the source port should be randomized between flows, and stable for sequences of related messages. Yours, Joel On 4/27/2020 6:14 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > No, that normally gets resolved when they actually start editing, but > > yes of course it's on my checklist. > > > I'm quite sure the early aassignments were announced on the list, but > > when I forget what values were pre-assigned I just go and look at my > > code: > > I thought that early allocations were supposed to go into the document so > they don't get assigned twice by mistake. > > > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_6 = ipaddress.IPv6Address('ff02::13') # LL multicast > > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_4 = ipaddress.IPv4Address('224.0.0.119') # LL multicast > > GRASP_LISTEN_PORT = 7017 # IANA port number > > Thank you. > > Is there any reason why the source port (for DULL, and normal) can't be port 7017 as well? > It clearly could be any port... > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Mon Apr 27 16:24:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FD83A0DBB for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pKQG3awl8LSS for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x443.google.com (mail-pf1-x443.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::443]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B53CD3A0DBA for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x443.google.com with SMTP id f7so9749979pfa.9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TWAK0QCoqTyZXpjKwqYPwE11j2STJZgH2Zc4qGCn7WA=; b=jUQUxKEStWu9ssUVq1nvGaMcBkEBhfGZqoSfw9fwUWhOIMqEdiji3vbXWd7TR6Eekp 7q0S9GvotKkDP0+yVQNC5/mVGQtwNYgVQjgA/AEFFf8iCj1JtVn0XVsW3vhyqoE5KEfC Tzxdz/amyKw/Oe12mSexQH61Y9dz7oUUvrs358cg09N/KSYVw46Fw0dRRl6de4C/IFrP 4Dok2SdeL//hXfttHmOIopXSEyFOrchKqpK/p6VqwXGiLncv9HuUe5Hzw4gjvI+h1aZL KcETMbDkXcVwknjRvQQDbs+4ydom+IrgwQWB6/jDnaNuEU4PUjvhI6ghtwUOCH39nIzL gBog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TWAK0QCoqTyZXpjKwqYPwE11j2STJZgH2Zc4qGCn7WA=; b=SaaklOL4ohFsfSbSiKuySK63PLLqpzr2fi4IxXwoUbg25bk5kj5A/8iKzD/+4CDR7b cFWLoLO6sFs8f3SCSVXtLfw3WIe0CQA7M0UmrfVnTsEJmE25kpq2oM6Q4sxAVxJss1T4 M17OWc0xx4CLEjh1eRvZBfvnXt8k9FMVHtBCVaPfl4z9h70zZTfu/hN752TlFPWHaY9V q1Xxg0A3LNRkgC9cm/7qUAzkXgmcxiF9f3ztk1L78H+z20NyK1Vh7AA+cpk0fbVfCaAP hByL87FQWlBByxrLk9cW5u8kHSOSo8Kir59HcLXR+hMGC35/Kh/pp8+kzZ9DTuAQF7+V +Ijw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYzgODoIaiXletDSnbzLit8oVx465jFUeyTTp154LTNL8+v+C/0 Fflozc5nnQ95v5tTavNRpqaHZxPtzEQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLEF9Z0b3PCYSuEJpn0+RBoMGHU6ujY+xVS9w+sOgPZDVDMlxEHfokiMjq+T9ajcYSuSC620w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:d:: with SMTP id h13mr27342086pfk.254.1588029864688; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x7sm199560pfj.122.2020.04.27.16.24.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:24:19 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:24:28 -0000 I think we don't care, because GRASP traffic density should be quite modest so load balancing isn't really an issue. In response to Michael, I don't think the source port matters at all for M_FLOOD messages. My code uses the o/s default, but it has no significance to the recipient. Regards Brian On 28-Apr-20 10:22, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I suspect that for most GRASP purposes, even if there is a layer 2 > network between the parties, we are not much worried about how LAG > handles GRASP packets? If we care about that, then the source port > should be randomized between flows, and stable for sequences of related > messages. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/27/2020 6:14 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> > No, that normally gets resolved when they actually start editing, but >> > yes of course it's on my checklist. >> >> > I'm quite sure the early aassignments were announced on the list, but >> > when I forget what values were pre-assigned I just go and look at my >> > code: >> >> I thought that early allocations were supposed to go into the document so >> they don't get assigned twice by mistake. >> >> > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_6 = ipaddress.IPv6Address('ff02::13') # LL multicast >> > ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS_4 = ipaddress.IPv4Address('224.0.0.119') # LL multicast >> > GRASP_LISTEN_PORT = 7017 # IANA port number >> >> Thank you. >> >> Is there any reason why the source port (for DULL, and normal) can't be port 7017 as well? >> It clearly could be any port... >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Mon Apr 27 18:44:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1FD3A0B59; 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Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a17sm12994471pfr.24.2020.04.27.18.44.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Anima WG , draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane.all@ietf.org From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <83115a40-b8fe-bc4a-cce4-43c6291ef0ed@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:44:17 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Significant nits in draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-24 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:44:24 -0000 Hi, Thanks to Michael Richardson, we have found some important nits in the GRASP examples in the ACP draft. The CDDL syntax is correct, but the examples need to be corrected as below. The errors are in nesting levels within the flood message, and the naming of constants. The draft is already in "Revised I-D Needed" so this can easily be fixed in the next draft. In Figure 3: OLD: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fd89b714f3db0000200000064000001', 210000, ["SRV.est", 4, 255 ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fd89b714f3db0000200000064000001', TCP, 443] ] NEW: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fd89b714f3db0000200000064000001', 210000, [["SRV.est", 4, 255 ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fd89b714f3db0000200000064000001', IPPROTO_TCP, 443]] ] In Figure 5: OLD: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', 210000, ["AN_ACP", 4, 1, "IKEv2" ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', UDP, 15000] ["AN_ACP", 4, 1, "DTLS" ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', UDP, 17000] ] NEW: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', 210000, [["AN_ACP", 4, 1, "IKEv2" ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', IPPROTO_UDP, 15000]], [["AN_ACP", 4, 1, "DTLS" ], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe80000000000000c0011001feef0000', IPPROTO_UDP, 17000]] ] Regards Brian From nobody Mon Apr 27 18:44:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574403A0B95; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VYxMJ9hb_ejt; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1041.google.com (mail-pj1-x1041.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1041]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F393A0B9D; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1041.google.com with SMTP id h12so512588pjz.1; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6DdVDXHrI+fVUBdugDh7CRWfKszYxISmQiEecqgaAE=; b=Zrn/SD/7TluCT9F+0JSwFxG+WI/TgNYs3WieGUXVkDFuQji3WtGUWxHywDim+MExfC rMH3GTChcuYQ72qUzfFRibbazAHh6NOIEj8fMJSBR2eCPyNNzYc0ab1M90NdWpU4/oKg lg66oG3D/bWnXcEerR+sW1SBP3rl6pI7J+LwdCqVr2qM+Iyld3ZXaSSqOADtRpZDxl3e kQwWsz9qyK6t9RjvE7QcCeFv3SR+HLT+5h/53CDd94H1986OWXvPmM8TIzVcSDew7DBj Ta1VD6cFR1jWpXGYOYGPNUVsKc1PqO6u6lOO2gArOo7SWwlSZTUh6nb6AjpGa5wP46XW zHaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6DdVDXHrI+fVUBdugDh7CRWfKszYxISmQiEecqgaAE=; b=s1AU63qpKT8DSDR/W/zD7je6S6hVPGlJRkV7dpsPIdEPl8O+rMF6yzZ+pARwJwEN9D M4vNPesw6zkFkMSb6RjAwNGb3dQ53lknRb1kEyC5emVFGZLfPR2SBvoEdHwdB2e0QAVt yY8EYQto7onkx8/ImOIErD1/QQmPXWKKNb8uQ8+SlkLmb1sQdPl2ikfHvQ13Rto+RBWE TYzjcQtvFgC34KKt99Y9sKUQJoFK+NebhtWV7x8bjU67whoNEQIMOmuR5rIgvUz0jrZU dn7NKtOsZAMG6k2lRXbnmC9gWl8+Di3ngBq/rY2EU/u+OEgWzNDaTza99gxbhHoS5UjF YYyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubgZZ8K7NssT0vnaSmZ/kdaZh/KGiErDaxg85wHXYBRBw003ACw lSqCe4Ur1vJCj4U1iCONzwYJi4McIvg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJnGAiLw9dOtUg8VxhK0rFMwuobLkWlTti9bRfxNnmVkOazOoY7XtJ0HFfCnwkEoir5Mtj35g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:aa84:: with SMTP id l4mr1991073pjq.100.1588038283672; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.25.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p24sm13523277pff.92.2020.04.27.18.44.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian E Carpenter To: Anima WG , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra.all@ietf.org Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:44:39 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Significant nits in draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-41 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:44:56 -0000 Hi, Again thanks to Michael Richardson, here are some important nits in the GRASP examples in the BRSKI draft. The CDDL syntax is correct, but the examples need to be corrected as below. The errors are in nesting levels within the flood message, just two pairs of missing []. I believe these can be corrected editorially, but the authors and shepherd need to take action, since the draft is in the RFC Editor queue. In Figure 11: OLD: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fe800000000000000000000000000001', 180000, ["AN_Proxy", 4, 1, ""], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe800000000000000000000000000001', IPPROTO_TCP, 4443]] In Figure 12: NEW: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fe800000000000000000000000000001', 180000, [["AN_Proxy", 4, 1, ""], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fe800000000000000000000000000001', IPPROTO_TCP, 4443]]] In Figure 12: OLD: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fda379a6f6ee00000200000064000001', 180000, ["AN_join_registrar", 4, 255, "EST-TLS"], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fda379a6f6ee00000200000064000001', IPPROTO_TCP, 8443]] ] NEW: [M_FLOOD, 12340815, h'fda379a6f6ee00000200000064000001', 180000, [["AN_join_registrar", 4, 255, "EST-TLS"], [O_IPv6_LOCATOR, h'fda379a6f6ee00000200000064000001', IPPROTO_TCP, 8443]] ] Regards Brian From nobody Mon Apr 27 19:54:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E12A3A0D1F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:54:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XuSNQpgMyS5K for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DF7F3A0D1B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A57238981; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D45B10E; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:54:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Joel M. Halpern" cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:54:27 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I suspect that for most GRASP purposes, even if there is a layer 2 network > between the parties, we are not much worried about how LAG handles GRASP > packets? If we care about that, then the source port should be randomized > between flows, and stable for sequences of related messages. The idea being that the different 5-tuples would wind up on different links of the LAG, correct? Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I think we don't care, because GRASP traffic density should be quite > modest so load balancing isn't really an issue. In response to Michael, > I don't think the source port matters at all for M_FLOOD messages. My > code uses the o/s default, but it has no significance to the > recipient. I agree with Brian: the DULL message is basically just a probe sent every few seconds. The bulk traffic would run over IPsec, so there will be an ESP SPI#. How would a LAG flow balancer deal with that? I don't think it would balance at all unless two SAs were negotiated. I think that the flow header could also be tweaked in some kind of round robin fashion. But, if it's a MC-LAG, then the ACP really wants to see both chassis seperately. So it occurs to me that we could hack LACP rather than LLDP :-) It appears that it uses a specific multicast destination. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6nmt0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WV18ggAqKI1AUdn7uVhuIRh/Xc6cQzknNLVBkXLGcgPvRqNdrBeKeJ2/y3j8drL CK+Tk/avfmt3qlC78by3Z+UFI5EwMyEc9bhPgRM5PY1wCkWWwj9UKaxN1kOib5i9 V9w7GbkdSDepQELVKS/GVu1I/EKoqOfhRh3QDAeP+5aJX++Xh68lTjlWaGNIKx9x UAVgHYvqsKQP1jTZBrbJZLOg1fAsMZwKLNiV7n0B4uRoHe1gamyLudGsCv7LJq96 icuh2Le2CenEboCEtJFn975hwZneXibvoul5/+TcVbKsPjLGZ9hHWKaxdgZINojj 8plj4um0Km/AlxJqyQFkah2Nm9/UsQ== =XTbF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 20:14:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6BD3A0E12 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pjc-G9k6HPHV for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D84BD3A074B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B6F0451Hz1p4Bs; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1588043652; bh=ikL8hG2jdArcWrs91p1z97pHkC2IHGHj5GG4Wmqo9d8=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=JeJxV0D0Gu8LSj5HQapN/Icdw4WE+WEh1LKEeRXOSirzm7WzlNSRNVbIS9BoQzx/h +JSTGKG2l96mgBe3yP/l6K3c3srVdUr0A0k85BtbZp43NwhSQOUxZeVLfGcGHYjLgV +MaVh9/X83yC0nZWh7eLztG7cjIo4bb9ONbu4x+E= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49B6Dz6Rfvz1p48h; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Richardson Cc: anima@ietf.org References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> <348.1588042461@localhost> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <2b2e8b52-fa4e-e3b1-35bb-d3d350678079@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:14:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <348.1588042461@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:14:15 -0000 LAGs can balance IPSec because the SPI is cafefully placed in the same location as the UDP / TCP port numbers, so if the LAG recognizes the protocol type (which most do), it can use the SPI just teh way it uses the port numbers. Yes, it is a hack. It is an OLD hack. Yours, Joel On 4/27/2020 10:54 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > I suspect that for most GRASP purposes, even if there is a layer 2 network > > between the parties, we are not much worried about how LAG handles GRASP > > packets? If we care about that, then the source port should be randomized > > between flows, and stable for sequences of related messages. > > The idea being that the different 5-tuples would wind up on different links > of the LAG, correct? > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > I think we don't care, because GRASP traffic density should be quite > > modest so load balancing isn't really an issue. In response to Michael, > > I don't think the source port matters at all for M_FLOOD messages. My > > code uses the o/s default, but it has no significance to the > > recipient. > > I agree with Brian: the DULL message is basically just a probe sent every few > seconds. The bulk traffic would run over IPsec, so there will be an ESP SPI#. > How would a LAG flow balancer deal with that? I don't think it would balance > at all unless two SAs were negotiated. I think that the flow header could > also be tweaked in some kind of round robin fashion. > > But, if it's a MC-LAG, then the ACP really wants to see both chassis > seperately. So it occurs to me that we could hack LACP rather than LLDP :-) > It appears that it uses a specific multicast destination. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > From nobody Mon Apr 27 22:37:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA613A0ABF for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mp4w-RbXqpAs for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED88B3A0AC2 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49B9QM1Zz7z1080; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:37:31 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <2714.1588025685@localhost> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:37:30 +0200 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , anima@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 609745050.770402-c878478474617cd40367172e88b00769 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:37:37 -0000 On 2020-04-28, at 00:14, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >> I'm quite sure the early aassignments were announced on the list, but >> when I forget what values were pre-assigned I just go and look at my >> code: >=20 > I thought that early allocations were supposed to go into the document = so > they don't get assigned twice by mistake. This is no longer an early allocation, as the document is approved; the = only thing left to do for IANA is insert the RFC number upon = publication. BTW, IANA also has this quite useful web site, and grasp is a great = search term: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=3Dgrasp+site%3Aiana.org Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Apr 28 06:14:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771DC3A14D4 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wQynGHwmDlJ1 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ACFE3A096C for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2E538983; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFD498A; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Joel M. Halpern" cc: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <2b2e8b52-fa4e-e3b1-35bb-d3d350678079@joelhalpern.com> References: <30733.1588000580@localhost> <5900.1588002250@localhost> <2714.1588025685@localhost> <348.1588042461@localhost> <2b2e8b52-fa4e-e3b1-35bb-d3d350678079@joelhalpern.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] GRASP ALL_GRASP_NEIGHBORS X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:14:42 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Joel M. Halpern wrote: > LAGs can balance IPSec because the SPI is cafefully placed in the same > location as the UDP / TCP port numbers, so if the LAG recognizes the protocol > type (which most do), it can use the SPI just teh way it uses the port > numbers. Yes, I thought as much, but since only a single SA would be negotiated, as long as the SPI# remains the same, then it would hash the same. > Yes, it is a hack. It is an OLD hack. :-) Those are the best. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6oLDkACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUvbQf8CWQKEvOROeCMaLjxWFlLlloGY0ZFa7gAxbNF/AdHh1ajbNCqWAZlY+v1 1ZROr4BGjnOw5j2NBjkXpRt7/bPRgHRfCJXMs8ndW3bNGbZhRfmAcEkeNMjtIdkX I63sCVFZgCXxLKRwHtQqf5MNp3xjMUgdSZ5gfXBDR7YxE5/vFgOlqGxeqTTvPoGH yO/d1dWPds/EIdv5JfCtnlyixOAeZVIaGciryRDWACr/BKGRpXj0sFDkFDDbqF9R /Pcc7RH9Dl6eJeWl/3Cpw7hq3r+JbQFf8ip9UQ1ccVgNmBbxhYAxMlkry1w/TAJ3 lEhuyJ5S8a50NGRjuqrXxndOgx5vvg== =RpIn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Apr 29 00:00:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD40A3A02C1; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zN5Zy8uVtBH5; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw-eagle2.siemens.com (gw-eagle2.siemens.com [194.138.20.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEF393A0363; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.dc4ca.siemens.de (mail2.dc4ca.siemens.de [139.25.224.94]) by gw-eagle2.siemens.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 528BF46800D; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from DEMCHDC89XA.ad011.siemens.net (demchdc89xa.ad011.siemens.net [139.25.226.103]) by mail2.dc4ca.siemens.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A59913FCF447; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from DEMCHDC8A1A.ad011.siemens.net (139.25.226.107) by DEMCHDC89XA.ad011.siemens.net (139.25.226.103) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1979.3; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:00:13 +0200 Received: from DEMCHDC8A1A.ad011.siemens.net ([139.25.226.107]) by DEMCHDC8A1A.ad011.siemens.net ([139.25.226.107]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:00:13 +0200 From: "Fries, Steffen" To: "anima-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Necessary steps for WG adoption of BRSKI-AE, was RE: Next steps for BRSKI-AE Thread-Index: AdYd7V6mX7wleHBlTI27W9Yxvl0q9w== Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:00:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3d3ef350670a4ac691066eca237d7e83@siemens.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [144.145.220.66] x-tm-snts-smtp: 26F9373C1BD1A99290B960DA92B70A646384366754E64227EB2F861DA9E15FB32000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3d3ef350670a4ac691066eca237d7e83siemenscom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Necessary steps for WG adoption of BRSKI-AE, was RE: Next steps for BRSKI-AE X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:00:19 -0000 --_000_3d3ef350670a4ac691066eca237d7e83siemenscom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Toerless, hi Chen, I'm just using my initial mail regarding the question for the next steps, w= hich are necessary for the WG adoption of BRSKI-AE. In the status update of= BRSKI-AE during the interim meeting we asked regarding WG adoption of the = current draft and there was no objection. It was noted, that the adoption w= ould be done via the mailing list. My understanding was that the chairs wou= ld initiate that call, but I'm not sure. If there is anything I can do to s= upport, please let me know. Best regards Steffen From: Anima On Behalf Of [ext] Fries, Steffen Sent: Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 15:22 To: Toerless Eckert ; anima@ietf.org Subject: [Anima] Next steps for BRSKI-AE Hi Toerless, During the interim ANIMA WG meeting last week we discussed the current stat= us of BRSKI-AE and also asked for WG adoption. No objections have been rais= ed in the meeting. What would be the next steps? I understood that the acce= ptance would be done via the mailing list. Best regards Steffen -- --_000_3d3ef350670a4ac691066eca237d7e83siemenscom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Toerless, hi Chen,
 
I’m just using my initial mail regarding the question for the ne= xt steps, which are necessary for the WG adoption of BRSKI-AE. In the statu= s update of BRSKI-AE during the interim meeting we asked regarding WG adopt= ion of the current draft and there was no objection. It was noted, that the adoption would be done via the mailing= list. My understanding was that the chairs would initiate that call, but I= ’m not sure. If there is anything I can do to support, please let me = know.
 
Best regards
Steffen
 
From: Anima <anima-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; On Behalf Of [ext] Fries, Steffen
Sent: Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 15:22
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>; anima@ietf.org
Subject: [Anima] Next steps for BRSKI-AE
 
Hi Toerless,
 
During the interim ANIMA WG meeting last week w= e discussed the current status of BRSKI-AE and also asked for WG adoption. = No objections have been raised in the meeting. What would be the next steps= ? I understood that the acceptance would be done via the mailing list.
 
Best regards
Steffen
 
--
 
 
 --_000_3d3ef350670a4ac691066eca237d7e83siemenscom_-- From nobody Thu Apr 30 18:32:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FA43A07A6 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:32:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h6_8twv5OwSk for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00F243A07A3 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE14838985 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F123F3A for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 25.1.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] operational considerations for BRSKI documents. X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 01:32:02 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Chairs, I'd appreciate if you could consider if the two documents: draft-richardson-masa-operational-considerations draft-richardson-registrar-operational-considerations fit into the ANIMA charter. It is quite possible that the WG is not ready to consider whether or not to adopt them, but prior to that, it would be useful to know if the WG even thinks it can adopt them. The MASA considerations document represents security advice to a manufacturer, clearly what we think is BCP. I would like to see it adopted. Either publish is really quickly with intention to revise (maybe start the -bis ID immediately), or leave it as an Internet-Draft some time, to collect feedback. The Registrar considerations document is as much a profile of ACP as it is a profile of BRSKI, and it does tend to wander into "Design Requirements" in places. I don't appologize for being opinionated here. This document might not fit into ANIMA, or the IETF at all. (Oh, I know that we've published such documents before, but I'm not claiming that was necessarily a good thing) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl6rfAsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVX/gf+LrtZQHUoqTGNUKygHW9hiRdcNHCTzsT63zDco6MGpwA834vdl34cCwC/ nl7eJMu96LfAAF/MrKcMIS2iHRFkibbKSU4FJZp3BIY5gquz5dWr9S7V+N0XdXEg Kuzw94iXNfCI38roWNOKQ+E+hHUEznliEJh+9SZIs9dIltvu/aXUGXNem8U4CNCk UKeqjm1aCivaJmvEN/hrQ4IstFL5sG7Se640NXJ7lCLm4XkyOeO+th2bn4ktewTi oQlxwNgJtKPJcTsamg126B6Vyh1PA73pDQ3yuCr3xkFlBuveBWTaeTCWy1KoOC2t 6iLZEucXP9gGIehnsMYfD6lCekQWHQ== =vrDM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--