From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 05:33:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B30D28C46A; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CB328C42F for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:33:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZC3CZnSS5xUz for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A076728C3C1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2600403pye.20 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 05:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=OrhOtYXTHr+rMYaKP3su2QWv2kCEOUtBA35JqKIxBz0=; b=opMRcmWXRJDdnpGPRxSFQAv07TZYW6LTAg8V1IujGbhDpV2BPnSPCJ/b+HE7J88vZ1vhL7aGxqNhe37pzhyd8BNteGuz87jON4l1K8n34x6whVMiQdV/BOkHGiegFVhRBDwG8bDB8opjuaAyjyaXuMJlR6KjvYwjs3i0XrlC0jM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=aWmheAz6qOZRXOekIbdF1JpW5Z5te1xi59+vEMzzpBnj51GwQohQc1xpu2nzD7/22o4c5xCTkkVEUI+SWysSa1r54GD+mahpfLG9ZknTNqIcc3jODUq1dqYlz5MY733zQe7uBy6PY3hPnAK9rMiCZsxF3aBdpQplyGWjb+La7J4= Received: by 10.65.124.8 with SMTP id b8mr19717542qbn.76.1207139584958; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 05:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:33:04 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Subject: URN for person and organization MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1215469408==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============1215469408== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_674_27863457.1207139584942" ------=_Part_674_27863457.1207139584942 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Does anybody know URN schema for person and organization except OID ( http://www.oid-info.com/) and PIN URN Schema (Network Solutions) ? Mentioned two schemas are not suitable for my purposes because they supposed to have one central authority for registration. It is likewise if there was only one organization in the world for domain names registration, which would not be able to delegate sub-ranges to someone else by region or activity field... So, I would prefer something like person://user@authorityname I am in search of such solution... Timur ------=_Part_674_27863457.1207139584942 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello

Does anybody know URN schema for person and organization except OID (http://www.oid-info.com/) and PIN URN Schema (Network Solutions) ?
Mentioned two schemas are not suitable for my purposes because they supposed to have one central authority for registration.
It is likewise if there was only one organization in the world for domain names registration, which would not be able to delegate sub-ranges to someone else by region or activity field... So, I would prefer something like person://user@authorityname
I am in search of such solution...

Timur ------=_Part_674_27863457.1207139584942-- --===============1215469408== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============1215469408==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 05:50:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6463A6AFF; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD383A6AD8 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mhT0q07MBeph for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A2228C344 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id B75071C01FE; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:50:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26B01C01D2; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:50:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60C158E9EF; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:50:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:50:35 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080402125035.GA19499@nic.fr> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 03:33:04PM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote a message of 46 lines which said: > It is likewise if there was only one organization in the world for > domain names registration, which would not be able to delegate > sub-ranges to someone else by region or activity field... So, I > would prefer something like person://user@authorityname Why not simply http://timur.shemsedinov.example/ ? No, the use of the "http" scheme does not imply that there is a HTTP server. See and (for solutions that are a little different) [There are many other solutions but let's see them one at a time.] _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 09:13:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EECF28C5AA; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAFCB28C58F for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.943, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1v7vN0bGLnNc for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m1.imap-partners.net (m1.imap-partners.net [64.13.152.131]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232463A6EFD for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lust.indecency.org (user-119b1dm.biz.mindspring.com [66.149.133.182]) by m1.imap-partners.net (MOS 3.8.4-GA) with ESMTP id APT73737 (AUTH admin@network-heretics.com) for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47F3B010.20500@network-heretics.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:10:56 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer Subject: Re: URN for person and organization References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <20080402125035.GA19499@nic.fr> In-Reply-To: <20080402125035.GA19499@nic.fr> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > Why not simply http://timur.shemsedinov.example/ ? No, the use of the > "http" scheme does not imply that there is a HTTP server. perhaps not, but it's pretty confusing to use an HTTP URL in this way when a huge body of existing practice uses HTTP URLs to point to resources that can be accessed via HTTP. _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 10:27:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1816828C17D; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E5328C372 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:27:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 172YohwaTOdc for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE2828C17D for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:27:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=o8pQZhglfYvk0MTfAwDaGUoIXE2GAGWO+58XbAlkIAXPOX3DaZ06Da7OT9/kJace; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.78.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Jh6kL-0008QE-Ox for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:27:38 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:27:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117027d0f376c16406333c3634babadca13350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.78.77 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Timur Shemsedinov" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:33 AM > Subject: URN for person and organization ... > Does anybody know URN schema for person and organization except OID ( > http://www.oid-info.com/) and PIN URN Schema (Network Solutions) ? > Mentioned two schemas are not suitable for my purposes because they supposed > to have one central authority for registration. .... Uhhh, I'm missing something. How does the use of OID require a central authority for registration? A key feature of the way OIDs work is that they do not require administrative coordinate, much less centralization. Randy _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 13:10:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E9CA28C19C; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:10:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363993A6EF8 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hy3aYPrBBKXX for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E473A6BE0 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2774661pye.20 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=3WhJWDXPpGhCFJK2xp1NzDNo0/KTqapm04DaFXPX298=; b=gGHThA2YeUvxJg7Xb2IV86ol8XqqK2knuKV2sap2h2sA/VMAtriDWh8THTY7P3kZDFCWRF93dbPdCyacQwAF3iA2sdJcWmJrf0EQ3FjKazFpOyTCn6jF6MXzr9yv1ayNQnlfk9YX5L7VVVBeZoH1UW3i57wMsx8e1NyIs4vwXy0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FGjxDe5PCGdHFh8kCyH7UQGW+gODDQcf8TmGNM4jJZ8X+Kd7r5DTLcxZ2ipSs8zSmc+4/eZWmUaszKsIbuULVjIgATbexopKNcpJDJjgyEySnp6XPdWYTQ4GQ0YLVqPHFdIjTsuAiQFSzFJLSde/UhZYnE5AeIvZs5ZbY+I1Ql0= Received: by 10.64.180.20 with SMTP id c20mr20801165qbf.71.1207167037983; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:10:37 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Randy Presuhn" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0183886425==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0183886425== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2381_15780188.1207167037951" ------=_Part_2381_15780188.1207167037951 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Uhhh, I'm missing something. How does the use of OID require a central > authority for registration? A key feature of the way OIDs work is that > they do not require administrative coordinate, much less centralization. > But they need central register (database) to guarantee uniqueness or central one and sub-registers (hierarchical structure of child authorities). For example urn:oid:1.2.250.1 - {iso(1) member-body(2) f(250) type-org(1)} so it is a authority tree like domain names, but I prefers domain names to identify authority because it is mode human readable and good for understanding and remembering Timur ------=_Part_2381_15780188.1207167037951 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Uhhh, I'm missing something.  How does the use of OID require a central
authority for registration?  A key feature of the way OIDs work is that
they do not require administrative coordinate, much less centralization.

But they need central register (database) to guarantee uniqueness or central one and sub-registers (hierarchical structure of child authorities).
For example urn:oid:1.2.250.1 - {iso(1) member-body(2) f(250) type-org(1)} so it is a authority tree like domain names, but I prefers domain names to identify authority because it is mode human readable and good for understanding and remembering

Timur
------=_Part_2381_15780188.1207167037951-- --===============0183886425== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0183886425==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 13:44:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E415D3A6A0A; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A9628C50D for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.709 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.709 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.890, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6sQphFwiLaTK for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5CF3A69C8 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Jh9pC-0001Fv-OX for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:44:50 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e26.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.38]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:44:50 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e26.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:44:50 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: discuss@apps.ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:46:57 +0200 Organization: Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com><001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e26.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > I prefers domain names to identify authority because it is > mode human readable and good for understanding and remembering Some of your goals match what RFC 4151 (tag: URI scheme) offers. Frank _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 13:51:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1140D3A6ED6; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:51:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDB93A69B6 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o+q8eT0nMzI3 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.235]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3F13A6F0C for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so2983391wxd.22 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:51:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=JDXvrjN4PwH4OBH7XlqW2N4MQe1j64zwrgIyppAlvCs=; b=iQMFLL8X0JvkoAriQc5WY2fx0lhFUc6pZqVLp6j7+U/i9MrZ+e1L90rjOFN0WcGOnyE139xwzKh09PX67EnhTzbR8+zyU8QLAMbewKmZtqMfbXvu34rtUHrLO5RdsuegFgcShiLSaenpzlcP7Tl5R25iiEnaWFH4E1tXPd2k6cA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=WvJYs2OeJHrk5L0RM8DM6IFDbQC7MpO3iuxTpmIOMwWASZbL4s5Ok/7gzysU7D5jzcGrU0bOH8j5Ueo/fWQzvJKOr6ClR+5q3P4a2dyP2h6PoZRq+vLLG2YVb1lOmOiHW0vLfpvrs00P/PnnCc0sOwsuQRYvWuGcOEi0GMOqNlM= Received: by 10.64.193.2 with SMTP id q2mr16020966qbf.90.1207169461967; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:51:01 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0959354427==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0959354427== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2483_13133328.1207169461929" ------=_Part_2483_13133328.1207169461929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Oh, I forgot following alternatives: 3) DOI - http://doi.org/ - The Digital Object Identifier System 4) OpenID - http://openid.net/ - OpenID Foundation (OIDF) 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier) and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. I think URN can be resolved / reflected into one or many of URLs GIUD - is not human-friendly DOI is much better approach but who have any other suggestions on person and organization identification? Timur ------=_Part_2483_13133328.1207169461929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Oh, I forgot following alternatives:
3) DOI - http://doi.org/ - The Digital Object Identifier System
4) OpenID - http://openid.net/ - OpenID Foundation (OIDF)
5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier) and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods

OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. I think URN can be resolved / reflected into one or many of URLs
GIUD - is not human-friendly
DOI is much better approach but who have any other suggestions on person and organization identification?

Timur
------=_Part_2483_13133328.1207169461929-- --===============0959354427== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0959354427==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 13:56:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10AC63A6ED6; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:56:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045643A68B9 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:56:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n2kiQARgDzZD for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44243A6F3A for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m32Ktj3t014448 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:55:45 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m32KtioR052085 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m32KtijS002717; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:55:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m32KtiqD002716; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:55:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:55:44 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:10:37PM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Randy Presuhn > wrote: > > > Uhhh, I'm missing something. How does the use of OID require a central > > authority for registration? A key feature of the way OIDs work is that > > they do not require administrative coordinate, much less centralization. > > > > But they need central register (database) to guarantee uniqueness or central > one and sub-registers (hierarchical structure of child authorities). > For example urn:oid:1.2.250.1 - {iso(1) member-body(2) f(250) type-org(1)} > so it is a authority tree like domain names, but I prefers domain names to > identify authority because it is mode human readable and good for > understanding and remembering The OID namespace is very similar to the DNS namespace in that it allows for delegation. The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a) finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs. Frankly, I'd like to see the ITU-T put forward such protocols, perhaps based on the DNS itself (hey, why not? It almost fits the bill as it is -- I think all that's missing are appropriate TLDs). Also, everyone knows how to get a domainname. Few know how to get an OID. So, I agree that the DNS is a better option. Nico -- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:02:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FFC3A6A0A; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86893A6F0C for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wqsPFDMUMymo for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7923A69B3 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m32L2Kn4002269 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:02:20 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m32L2KKt056864 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m32L2Kf3002724; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:02:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m32L2KkL002723; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:02:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:02:20 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:51:01PM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier) > and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods > > GIUD - is not human-friendly But GUIDs may have useful privacy protection semantics, namely, pseudonymity. So I think GUIDs should not be rejected outright. Of course, GUIDs are not at all user-friendly, certainly not without a name resolution protocol (which ruins the pseudonymity aspect). But I think the way they'd be used is as follows: one peer hands you a GUID- based person URN, and you then ask the same peer for whatever personal information associated with the URN that you're allowed to have, and this is what you display to users -- you'd then store {URN, authority} in a database or {URN, authority, data} in a database and query it as necessary. That's not at all unfriendly, and public references to such URNs retain the pseudonymity benefit. Nico -- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:14:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9923A6A6B; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4433A6A6B for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6II8Yn4JYYHt for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07873A695B for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2797780pye.20 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=YPbF9ex7wIytsoiTHjkciA74/p+ujfHJ7rl72eRs2e8=; b=lNCyLFq/s/Q7JZNyF2BK55o1fjqiSLDchugjCeouX3Hz+p628vJMwPGgKCyaJxfMeOr+E773FBknNmZEXpsUYSDpenmhFMeHobE91P+Ei70QKYFXJqw3lrM9DdOG5CwHuK45FbWyE0hFw8IkhOTzHM/EUrPrF6neB0WERwnRSkU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RadrlwYH3EdpS1EoQIfnhFkh9XkwZrK7nBb0kR5FMw9PjSS0wiqGgTmwEXLIK7aWfdqPUSyjB5CMYGsg9rYEouEN46GbsZyaKraPX/PCm+mzkWsFVeY+0auxSROHE1O0AU9Qgf3qsoH0j9V1VY5lDLcujYhv4dZQDxJ0F1XnHDE= Received: by 10.35.54.9 with SMTP id g9mr16801598pyk.9.1207170843382; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:14:03 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Nicolas Williams" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0245499122==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0245499122== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2570_27978537.1207170843334" ------=_Part_2570_27978537.1207170843334 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > ... > The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a) > finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means > that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs. > ... > Also, everyone knows how to get a domainname. Few know how to get an > OID. So, I agree that the DNS is a better option. > So, we have OID, DOI, OpenID, GUID, UUID, PIN, IUID, OUI (from IETF), etc... Some of them uses integer-numbers, alpha-numeric random-generated or algorithmic-generated, URL/URN/URI syntax or other syntactic constructions, using HTTP or other inappropriate schemas (why not FTP: or TELNET: - it is comically situation at all) So is it a task for IETF or ISO or IEEE or someone else to organize this field? We need something simple and practical... I see that all approaches have its benefits, even similar constructions Problem is that URL/URN/URI gives unnecessary flexibility in objects identification (not fixed by other documents), so as a result we have multiple approaches. Timur ------=_Part_2570_27978537.1207170843334 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> wrote:
...
The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a)
finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means
that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs.
...
Also, everyone knows how to get a domainname.  Few know how to get an
OID. So, I agree that the DNS is a better option.
 
So, we have OID, DOI, OpenID, GUID, UUID, PIN, IUID, OUI (from IETF), etc...
Some of them uses integer-numbers, alpha-numeric random-generated or algorithmic-generated, URL/URN/URI syntax or other syntactic constructions, using HTTP or other inappropriate schemas (why not FTP: or TELNET: - it is comically situation at all)
So is it a task for IETF or ISO or IEEE or someone else to organize this field?
We need something simple and practical... I see that all approaches have its benefits, even similar constructions
Problem is that URL/URN/URI gives unnecessary flexibility in objects identification (not fixed by other documents), so as a result we have multiple approaches.

Timur
------=_Part_2570_27978537.1207170843334-- --===============0245499122== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0245499122==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:20:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BC328C15C; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ACE3A6C5D for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vcsbEfT4c6zh for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748F83A69C4 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m32LKRlY009789 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:20:27 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m32LKQRp002758 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m32LKRP7002744; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:20:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m32LKQTw002743; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:20:26 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:20:26 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080402212026.GC16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 12:14:03AM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > So, we have OID, DOI, OpenID, GUID, UUID, PIN, IUID, OUI (from IETF), etc... > Some of them uses integer-numbers, alpha-numeric random-generated or > algorithmic-generated, URL/URN/URI syntax or other syntactic constructions, > using HTTP or other inappropriate schemas (why not FTP: or TELNET: - it is > comically situation at all) Quite clearly we need a user-friendly URN representation of "person," assuming we need a URN representation of "person" at all. And quite clearly such a thing should support multiple resolution/access schemes. > So is it a task for IETF or ISO or IEEE or someone else to organize this > field? IETF I think. Someone who's more in tune with URNs and the IETF App Area could tell you if such a thing already exists or if there have been past (or current) efforts in this area that you should be aware of. > We need something simple and practical... I see that all approaches have its > benefits, even similar constructions > Problem is that URL/URN/URI gives unnecessary flexibility in objects > identification (not fixed by other documents), so as a result we have > multiple approaches. I tend to agree. A person URN would be nice. In the meantime I'd use a combination of http: and mailto: URLs. Nico -- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:24:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F25828C15C; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E6828C15C for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:24:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xZPgf3HG9iu2 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AFA828C2D0 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so3002213wxd.22 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=MpHqQyp+AyF6N/doR0kJFyAV8umhbdokOrLpRWq7QaM=; b=bc7v0WDiuXeQ5W+sLu43THkezxKHFZKXEN7LFw1ReizIqBmr+ueKxQ7baEIqP1S+wA41mQFOif4IEnA6kpWcn75gAwb28wRq+aSDfacWx74Yv0OM0RFaoUImh3DQYf5cx7ToiYhHo6LyfbLBG4Cs3N2KnLzsEF5gx0/jhwqA+2Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=soiPG9Lg0tzyCoyM40sj6iWU/7Smcd5TDegBObGna6LAiOvAhwgHL/Av4bSFUEDq7yOEC+sqM5UxIJwxfxu8huQcbW1lohSjbbdVAWe1NoKEIbicXjocVfyn8ldYxdI2TWXiNAImVDIw+6d5Cl5L+r5RTSvVNbl33fbxNs3q0C0= Received: by 10.65.194.13 with SMTP id w13mr20926815qbp.91.1207171445303; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021424l6bbde437pfce2101f573f15c4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:24:05 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Nicolas Williams" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0471979975==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0471979975== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2631_543732.1207171445292" ------=_Part_2631_543732.1207171445292 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > > 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique > Identifier) > > and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods > > GIUD - is not human-friendly > > But GUIDs may have useful privacy protection semantics, namely, > pseudonymity. So I think GUIDs should not be rejected outright. > Yes, you are right, we need such ability as pseudonymity, and what is more - we need temporary-valid and spatially-valid identifiers (with specified validity limits) Timur ------=_Part_2631_543732.1207171445292 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> wrote:
> 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier)
> and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods
> GIUD - is not human-friendly

But GUIDs may have useful privacy protection semantics, namely,
pseudonymity.  So I think GUIDs should not be rejected outright.
Yes, you are right, we need such ability as pseudonymity, and what is more - we need temporary-valid and spatially-valid identifiers (with specified validity limits)

Timur
------=_Part_2631_543732.1207171445292-- --===============0471979975== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0471979975==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 14:31:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFD03A6CA2; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6843F3A695B for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MW3t8SLgjXFr for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFAD3A6C5D for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6FD1421EC; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pU2da7e5UDPy; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.1.139] (corp.collabrx.com [157.22.41.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3CD1421F2; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4C8B1C52-E1D2-42AF-9228-FB00CC8818F2@osafoundation.org> From: Lisa Dusseault To: "Timur Shemsedinov" In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021424l6bbde437pfce2101f573f15c4@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:31:10 -0700 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021424l6bbde437pfce2101f573f15c4@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org, Nicolas Williams X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2027239148==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============2027239148== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-16--916079663 --Apple-Mail-16--916079663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This area seems really difficult to address, because anybody who looks at a problem statement like yours will have a very different idea of the requirements and indeed for what seems user-friendly. If a group were to accept all the requirements, it would likely be over- constrained. One of the reasons why the work so far has been splintered and unsatisifying is because of the choice made to reduce scope in each case where something was actually completed. To add to the list, the OASIS standard for resource identifiers, compatible with URIs, is XRIs: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/15694 I'm not sure how i-Names is related, but it uses XRIs for person identifiers. The geopriv WG has a lot of relevant work to the spatially-valid question. That is a huge question, as a matter of fact, not a trivial requirement to add! Lisa On Apr 2, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Nicolas Williams > wrote: > > 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique > Identifier) > > and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods > > GIUD - is not human-friendly > > But GUIDs may have useful privacy protection semantics, namely, > pseudonymity. So I think GUIDs should not be rejected outright. > Yes, you are right, we need such ability as pseudonymity, and what > is more - we need temporary-valid and spatially-valid identifiers > (with specified validity limits) > > Timur > _______________________________________________ > Apps-Discuss mailing list > Apps-Discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --Apple-Mail-16--916079663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This area seems really = difficult to address, because anybody who looks at a problem statement = like yours will have a very different idea of the requirements and = indeed for what seems user-friendly.  If a group were to accept all = the requirements, it would likely be over-constrained.  One of the = reasons why the work so far has been splintered and unsatisifying is = because of the choice made to reduce scope in each case where something = was actually completed.

To add to the list, the = OASIS standard for resource identifiers, compatible with URIs,  is = XRIs: http://ww= w.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/15694  I'm not sure = how i-Names is related, but it uses XRIs for person = identifiers. 

The = geopriv WG has a lot of relevant work to the spatially-valid question. =  That is a huge question, as a matter of fact, not a trivial = requirement to = add!

Lisa

On Apr = 2, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Timur Shemsedinov wrote:
On Thu, = Apr 3, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> = wrote:
> 5) GUID (Globally = Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier)
> and other = integer-numeric based random or calculated methods
> GIUD - is not = human-friendly

But GUIDs may have useful privacy = protection semantics, namely,
pseudonymity.  So I think GUIDs = should not be rejected outright.
Yes, you are right, we = need such ability as pseudonymity, and what is more - we need = temporary-valid and spatially-valid identifiers (with specified validity = limits)

Timur
= _______________________________________________
Apps-Discuss mailing = list
Apps-Discuss@ietf.org
https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss

= --Apple-Mail-16--916079663-- --===============2027239148== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============2027239148==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 15:03:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297B63A6A8A; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C753A6B65 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZiH6kgzDml61 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226A83A690C for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9] (may be forged)) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id m32M3Juc014989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:19 -0700 X-Auth-Received: from D-140-142-21-120.dhcp4.washington.edu (D-140-142-21-120.dhcp4.washington.edu [140.142.21.120]) (authenticated authid=rlmorgan) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id m32M3I3p003513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:03:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "RL 'Bob' Morgan" X-X-Sender: rlmorgan@perf.cac.washington.edu To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> Message-ID: References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (LFD 882 2007-12-20) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.0.325393, Antispam-Data: 2008.4.2.145120 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='BODY_SIZE_900_999 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > Of course, GUIDs are not at all user-friendly, certainly not without a > name resolution protocol (which ruins the pseudonymity aspect). But I > think the way they'd be used is as follows: one peer hands you a GUID- > based person URN, and you then ask the same peer for whatever personal > information associated with the URN that you're allowed to have, and > this is what you display to users -- you'd then store {URN, authority} > in a database or {URN, authority, data} in a database and query it as > necessary. That's not at all unfriendly, and public references to such > URNs retain the pseudonymity benefit. The Liberty Alliance People Service is a complete specification including just this kind of mediated information release with opaque identifiers, see: http://www.projectliberty.org/liberty/resource_center/faq/people_service__1 I think there are implementations available, though perhaps not open source ones. - RL "Bob" _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 15:41:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D193A69D6; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4973A6831 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxOMiDWAsucI for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m1.imap-partners.net (m1.imap-partners.net [64.13.152.131]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DBC13A689E for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lust.indecency.org (c-24-126-187-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [24.126.187.82]) by m1.imap-partners.net (MOS 3.8.4-GA) with ESMTP id APU50167 (AUTH admin@network-heretics.com) for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47F40B56.7060503@network-heretics.com> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:40:22 -0400 From: Keith Moore User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > Does anybody know URN schema for person and organization except OID > (http://www.oid-info.com/) and PIN URN Schema (Network Solutions) ? > Mentioned two schemas are not suitable for my purposes because they > supposed to have one central authority for registration. It's difficult to meet URN uniqueness requirements without some kind of centralized registration. And it's difficult to meet URN persistence requirements if you incorporate a human-friendly name like DNS which is subject to disputes about ownership, and thus, a potential for reassignment. _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 15:41:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421203A6B9A; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0548E3A6B9A for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.962, BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_WORD2_END_DOLLAR=3.294, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, US_DOLLARS_3=0.63] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSZRREzZbuKf for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EE93A6A57 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2832733pye.20 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=lZiQDB2O33nAqgNZx+YQXs7kcAtXqKEk4qFjqDRrPKo=; b=S+ZA5lwNW24N8DnLRWNIW6/Lrf/SQpZZjEVBHu4BiZ5B/QJ6wM8TyiqJ3sc8cdqTbCYBSrOTItYRvl1dRKAJ2DjazlW4Ec4CrHJcZ//sH5KAtwY/P4aXhJ1/N7Aq/TGLBUzVOntJBylDp//CU7e3oSXzzZJ3KcnmD0PNBjIur8g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=IE3MvM+02SGQex1G7hjnqF5W6iNTOceK/ziEo0dOgf/KX6d/58KDxgJr6WYbOaTctwVf5U3rVBgXSoLrM6hQvOvA5uFNUYzedx9hhqO5lK83LZK5zu/6hXCrjLo194BR+Fh3yEhPqEzd777xrh0UVNBcHiVD9ORe20uphATGrg4= Received: by 10.65.73.16 with SMTP id a16mr21120120qbl.85.1207176106063; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021541p3e5454e2p50beed631b414418@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:41:45 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Nicolas Williams" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0286511912==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0286511912== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2975_28862566.1207176106051" ------=_Part_2975_28862566.1207176106051 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > The OID namespace is very similar to the DNS namespace in that it allows > for delegation. > > The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a) > finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means > that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs. > You are right: finding authorities, identifier resolution and I can add c) backward resolution d) data representation format for resolution results (it may contain complex structures). To resolve person identifier into URL we can use something like DNS hierarchical system: Root server may hold table, for example: Priority RegEx Child-Server Comment 10 ^urn:person://.*$ 67.95.155.67 person identifiers server 20 ^urn:org://.*$ 195.39.196.42 organization identifiers server 30 ^urn:[a-z]*://.*$ 82.144.192.130 all other schemas should be resolved by this server and 67.95.155.67 may hold another sub-table: Priority RegEx Child-Server Comment 10 ^urn:person://.*@rtintel.com$ 66.218.140.51 person identifiers for RTI authority 20 ^urn:person://.*$ 82.144.192.130 all other domains should be resolved by this server etc... and as a result of resolving we can receive something like table of all URLs for this person: mailto, http, ftp, tel... in XML or binary or other format It is good approach for communication software and smart communication devices. You can call somebody by person: schema (instead of tel: which may change) Timur ------=_Part_2975_28862566.1207176106051 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> wrote:
The OID namespace is very similar to the DNS namespace in that it allows
for delegation.

The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a)
finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means
that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs.
You are right: finding authorities, identifier resolution and I can add c) backward resolution d) data representation format for resolution results (it may contain complex structures).

To resolve person identifier into URL we can use something like DNS hierarchical system:
Root server may hold table, for example:

Priority  RegEx                 Child-Server     Comment
10        ^urn:person://.*$     67.95.155.67     person identifiers server
20        ^urn:org://.*$        195.39.196.42    organization identifiers server
30        ^urn:[a-z]*://.*$     82.144.192.130   all other schemas should be resolved by this server

and 67.95.155.67 may hold another sub-table:

Priority  RegEx                          Child-Server     Comment
10        ^urn:person://.*@rtintel.com$  66.218.140.51    person identifiers for RTI authority
20        ^urn:person://.*$              82.144.192.130   all other domains should be resolved by this server

etc...

and as a result of resolving we can receive something like table of all URLs for this person: mailto, http, ftp, tel... in XML or binary or other format
It is good approach for communication software and smart communication devices. You can call somebody by person: schema (instead of tel: which may change)


Timur
------=_Part_2975_28862566.1207176106051-- --===============0286511912== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0286511912==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 15:57:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21693A6D9F; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:57:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4803A6951 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:57:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y0zkBdtpJaCP for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (sca-ea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.43.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EF43A6865 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m32MvWb0023350 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:57:34 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m32MvWKL013885 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m32MvWan002931; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:57:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m32MvWQ9002930; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:57:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:57:32 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080402225731.GM16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021541p3e5454e2p50beed631b414418@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021541p3e5454e2p50beed631b414418@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 01:41:45AM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams > wrote: > > > The OID namespace is very similar to the DNS namespace in that it allows > > for delegation. > > > > The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a) > > finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means > > that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs. > > > You are right: finding authorities, identifier resolution and I can add c) > backward resolution d) data representation format for resolution results (it > may contain complex structures). I didn't think (c) needed to be spelled out separately :) It's just necessary, at least for OIDs, IP addresses, ... > To resolve person identifier into URL we can use something like DNS > hierarchical system: > [...] All very nice, but do look at the Liberty Alliance People Service stuff that Bob mentioned, and the i-Names stuff that Lisa mentioned. Even if they shouldn't fit the bill exactly, it's better to not re-invent the wheel if one exists or if you can find a polygon that approximates a wheel closely enough or that can be hammered into shape :) Nico -- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 2 16:34:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E403A6DED; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3363A6C37 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.491, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5qDo0K4ycyL for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88FC28C3E9 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so2850762pye.20 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:34:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=jJeARnhxmSr6fX+IVdR/GcCqnKEuCkcTelghD4irK80=; b=C6ZH/wNlebQ2q7GzfFo8ZYrYeCMCtMVNWpaoPPex1oV0aDTvQr6JNviB+kwNGUhwQwzhnwzm7ByqPc2gCQP9mUKd6ywijwihBq7mJfHt0z+z9FXO3eUAjSbXzEFiQ9Mpdq+74GxQnRYMaiUUoHY0WHY/QvQnFG/hDQW7y+t2BQI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jLKjWfOpEL/yKrO9nQL2Ytd4B+9QvS1HvTjYT6Pq2HVzYAW2fFSQHKmbuFV04YYZ3wKq2m4/SP5APq0HZNuP80VJNA6S2jPlFLSrxkrjFIR2+UHu4M9MQkWBMqEmBfUxNFREUY1SMHbmnIqmg1YtPs2n+YCfdWq73//xjiBiQkg= Received: by 10.65.83.18 with SMTP id k18mr21335105qbl.12.1207179247800; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804021634j1fef907fp3ce22f12f6ca9cae@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 02:34:07 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Nicolas Williams" , "RL 'Bob' Morgan" , "Lisa Dusseault" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080402225731.GM16998@Sun.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021541p3e5454e2p50beed631b414418@mail.gmail.com> <20080402225731.GM16998@Sun.COM> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0650152781==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0650152781== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3107_33482859.1207179247790" ------=_Part_3107_33482859.1207179247790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:57 AM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > > All very nice, but do look at the Liberty Alliance People Service stuff > that Bob mentioned, and the i-Names stuff that Lisa mentioned. Even if > they shouldn't fit the bill exactly, it's better to not re-invent the > wheel if one exists or if you can find a polygon that approximates a > wheel closely enough or that can be hammered into shape :) > Sure, thank you, Frank, Bob and Lisa! I'll read all received links and documents, but I am usually think how to solve a problem before search of known solutions just by force of software developers habit :) fresh ideas may come... but, of course, I need to investigate all known approaches, otherwise in nearest future we may need special scheme for naming all mentioned identifying systems: OID, DOI, OpenID, PIN.... :) ------=_Part_3107_33482859.1207179247790 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:57 AM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> wrote:

All very nice, but do look at the Liberty Alliance People Service stuff
that Bob mentioned, and the i-Names stuff that Lisa mentioned.  Even if
they shouldn't fit the bill exactly, it's better to not re-invent the
wheel if one exists or if you can find a polygon that approximates a
wheel closely enough or that can be hammered into shape :)

Sure, thank you, Frank, Bob and Lisa!
I'll read all received links and documents, but I am usually think how to solve a problem before search of known solutions just by force of software developers habit :) fresh ideas may come... but, of course, I need to investigate all known approaches, otherwise in nearest future we may need special scheme for naming all mentioned identifying systems: OID, DOI, OpenID, PIN.... :)
------=_Part_3107_33482859.1207179247790-- --===============0650152781== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0650152781==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 00:59:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD833A6C1D; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:59:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0193A6AD0 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qocWLXJjPrH3 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EE63A6F0C for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id BFA021C0169; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:59:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA281C0161; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:59:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B829658EBF1; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:59:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:59:41 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080403075941.GA23061@nic.fr> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 11:51:01PM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote a message of 47 lines which said: > 3) DOI - http://doi.org/ - The Digital Object Identifier System Very expensive and maintained by a private and closed organization, whose future is completely unclear. Pure snake oil. > 4) OpenID - http://openid.net/ - OpenID Foundation (OIDF) OpenID uses ordinary HTTP URL as identifiers. > 5) GUID (Globally Unique Identifier), UUID (Universally Unique Identifier) > and other integer-numeric based random or calculated methods RFC 4122 is indeed a good solution. A limitation: there is no secure binding between an UUID and its holder. Anyone can claim he is urn:uuid:c966efc5-7034-4067-90e0-42784909f677 If you like random strings of bits, a PGP key or a X509 certificate are more interesting since they bring the ability to prove this binding. > OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - Why? > it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. Can you elaborate? It seems there is some religious issue here? _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 01:04:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967AA28C2B7; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:04:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849F33A6CC7 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:04:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-ZZqf7KVxR3 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060B528C2B7 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 8ED541C016C; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:04:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89C431C016A; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:04:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E8058EBC5; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:04:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:04:47 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080403080447.GB23061@nic.fr> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 12:14:03AM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote a message of 64 lines which said: > So, we have OID, DOI, OpenID, GUID, UUID, PIN, IUID, OUI (from > IETF), etc... And many, many others ("I am not a number, I am PGP 0x97D6D246") > So is it a task for IETF or ISO or IEEE or someone else to organize > this field? "Organizing this field" is a huge task and a complicated one. Finding a good identifier for people (your original message) is much simpler). > We need something simple and practical... If so, HTTP URL are clearly the best solution. > Problem is that URL/URN/URI gives unnecessary flexibility in objects > identification (not fixed by other documents), A profile of URL is a good approach. This is the one taken by the W3C: do not reinvent the wheel, use _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 01:49:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F317528C4F0; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CD928C469 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.809 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.809 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.466, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_RELAY=2.696] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uwxoVrB9v8ev for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4AC28C173 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id m338nCuG007682 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:49:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 6e62_eb568b12_0159_11dd_8b4f_0014221f2a2d; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:42:40 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:38024) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:37:59 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20080403103118.03eefa30@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:42:56 +0900 To: "Timur Shemsedinov" , discuss@apps.ietf.org From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.co m> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org At 05:51 08/04/03, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: >OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. >I think URN can be resolved / reflected into one or many of URLs I understand why you have your reservations for HTTP, but HTTP is the only protocol where resolution into data, mapping into one other identifiers (HTTP redirect), and mapping into multiple other identifiers (HTTP multiple choice) are part of the protocol and WIDELY implemented and available. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 01:49:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4163E3A6CC7; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581923A6CC7 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.117 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.158, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_RELAY=2.696] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ndYC9AyZD-wu for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2913A687D for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id m338nENB007705 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:49:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 6e83_ec661108_0159_11dd_80df_0014221f2a2d; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:42:42 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:38024) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:38:00 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20080403104317.03eaf5b0@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:50:51 +0900 To: Lisa Dusseault , "Timur Shemsedinov" From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <4C8B1C52-E1D2-42AF-9228-FB00CC8818F2@osafoundation.org> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <20080402210219.GB16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021424l6bbde437pfce2101f573f15c4@mail.gmail.com> <4C8B1C52-E1D2-42AF-9228-FB00CC8818F2@osafoundation.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org, Nicolas Williams X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org At 06:31 08/04/03, Lisa Dusseault wrote: >To add to the list, the OASIS standard for resource identifiers, compatible with URIs, is XRIs: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/15694 I'm not sure how i-Names is related, but it uses XRIs for person identifiers. As far as I understand, OASIS has very low barriers for getting something worked on/approved, and little if no mechanisms in place for coordination, e.g. to fill in obvious holes or to coordinate or select among solutions competing for the same space. That may well be appropriate for the areas they are mainly working in (applied business standards and the like). Also, their hurdles for calling something a standard are extremely low when compared to the IETF, and low also compared to other organizations. Therefore, saying "the OASIS standard for resource identifiers" may be misleading. "an OASIS standard for resource identifiers" probably fits closer with reality. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 01:59:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66ACD3A6F0C; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:59:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7A53A6F0C for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.357 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.918, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_RELAY=2.696] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKMGWNsrVbcj for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4843A6979 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id m338xodh015425 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:59:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 2805_514d9eae_015c_11dd_889b_0014221f2a2d; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:59:50 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:41488) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:38:23 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20080403102738.03eebdf0@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:30:56 +0900 To: "Timur Shemsedinov" , "Nicolas Williams" From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.co m> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org At 06:14 08/04/03, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: >On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> wrote: >>... >>The main issue with OIDs is the lack of standard protocols for: a) >>finding authorities for any one arc, b) name resolution (which means >>that users are routinely faced with meaningless (to them) numeric OIDs. >>... >>Also, everyone knows how to get a domainname. Few know how to get an >>OID. So, I agree that the DNS is a better option. > >So, we have OID, DOI, OpenID, GUID, UUID, PIN, IUID, OUI (from IETF), etc... >Some of them uses integer-numbers, alpha-numeric random-generated or algorithmic-generated, URL/URN/URI syntax or other syntactic constructions, using HTTP or other inappropriate schemas (why not FTP: or TELNET: - it is comically situation at all) >So is it a task for IETF or ISO or IEEE or someone else to organize this field? >We need something simple and practical... I see that all approaches have its benefits, even similar constructions >Problem is that URL/URN/URI gives unnecessary flexibility in objects identification (not fixed by other documents), so as a result we have multiple approaches. That's actually a feature. It would be great if everybody could agree on a single set of requirements, but that hasn't been the case for at least the last 15 years. Also, it's difficult to know what uses these identifiers will be put to in the future, so the fact that there is an unified syntax and one big space for everything helps a lot for future extensibility and new uses. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 11:32:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7837F28C6EF; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CC928C25E for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:32:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.205 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.205 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.393, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wS4CK0fIq8OE for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F8F28C2C6 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so3236457pye.20 for ; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:31:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=PlkyS4cqcs26nGers9Qhh56+HC4zYR6WoIVAleks4OY=; b=mXpkIRzv3IDiKxZF4ALGDRPAWbiBoHWAO5RIgUjk9PAWkhVIu2TU+qasdT93JnWVPRoHoAQKxcpeIAgohb7Tb4hD0y1u4AhPLUhBZmZH4R8Os31oO6QE/IBJE2XW9I8yuwshQAI41ijuA/TLoIx6r2kRKdYDpHqyFHWPUf+pNj0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=S7Qo/gVrLOw2jrMTrrLpj2qHPUyd3366ANmZjL/FS5jAHBiCc9m968jxJsarQ66+NbFzWj2uJXOp5fbmcygO6XFy9m4JSDQTkt+94stY6daJgG45DHe6wySF+Fjw5jpD26Uc6YdQ8e7jswWkEbc1YLXeRDsbQCMrmwgLdMht8uI= Received: by 10.65.155.19 with SMTP id h19mr253305qbo.94.1207247496240; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804031131l73f007f7r24e05b32804b83e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:31:36 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080403075941.GA23061@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <20080403075941.GA23061@nic.fr> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0633399971==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0633399971== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2436_14426372.1207247496226" ------=_Part_2436_14426372.1207247496226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - > Why? > Why not ftp: or telnet: ? > > it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. > Can you elaborate? It seems there is some religious issue here? > Because HTTP is URL scheme (lacator) and I need URN scheme. I do not use HTTP protocol in my solution architecture... I am sure, identifying is not a task for locators or for protocols at all ------=_Part_2436_14426372.1207247496226 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
> OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it -
Why?
Why not ftp: or telnet: ?
 
> it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage.
Can you elaborate? It seems there is some religious issue here?
Because HTTP is URL scheme (lacator) and I need URN scheme. I do not use HTTP protocol in my solution architecture...
I am sure, identifying is not a task for locators or for protocols at all
------=_Part_2436_14426372.1207247496226-- --===============0633399971== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0633399971==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 11:44:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F083A6D65; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75CB3A6D2F for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jgy3wE-GnrXc for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F833A6C1F for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m33IiHw6012985 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:44:17 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m33IiGtq020348 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m33IiGvi003257; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:44:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m33IiDxt003256; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:44:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:44:13 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080403184413.GX16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <248bcd790804021351g2dc0d2a6v2193a401ae68be61@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.0.20.2.20080403103118.03eefa30@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20080403103118.03eefa30@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 10:42:56AM +0900, Martin Duerst wrote: > At 05:51 08/04/03, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > > >OpenID offers us to use HTTP schema - I do not like it - it brings misunderstanding in URL/URN usage. > >I think URN can be resolved / reflected into one or many of URLs > > I understand why you have your reservations for HTTP, but HTTP > is the only protocol where resolution into data, mapping into > one other identifiers (HTTP redirect), and mapping into > multiple other identifiers (HTTP multiple choice) are part > of the protocol and WIDELY implemented and available. Huh? The issue is not that HTTP shouldn't be used to obtain relevant data given some ID. The issue is that it shouldn't be the only protocol, nor should we map http: person URLs to other URIs to get around the problem. The reason for preferring http: is simple: all software out there knows what to do with an http URL. _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 11:49:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B5F3A6CEF; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBB23A6CEF for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:48:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.271 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.271 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.327, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3G0y3of7duUr for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:48:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6E13A6CCF for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so3243361pye.20 for ; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=7RZWKNRdaf7gs9wVh3UtXdluTuWVxQYCzS4UB1tnFrA=; b=cqVwhmIVH+++ic0IVYgf791+3Y9uUTkyA+nXsLX0P4xmIuhGSRGUb4bQJuWSbMfjIWNv3x2TAeQQySjjwBCh9MniR6TNYJPfeuAvaBR4lquNcgNYwmLuYGxYR+uoel0yLftrQp7uVLwswZPaSNM2ABtSv7BwtvAxWBjLs5hYZic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=XIkMdB1O+mVnjzYtYglTEpS+7r1c89b5IQlQjoJW50Fb6zKHf86AtmWL9zcb/g+tTFl84gqc47/X4EFUab2TQitD0FL1x8VzYMcFtO2r4kQcQyoP1kKBIiFAnkCgQbK5832NxQRXTxy3wK0Zcs8sNv9L/Wrtqjff25zUQZas5Kc= Received: by 10.64.250.7 with SMTP id x7mr312765qbh.82.1207248542320; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804031149n1becf3f3w34d0b090231d8e04@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:49:02 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Martin Duerst" Subject: Re: URN for person and organization In-Reply-To: <20080403080447.GB23061@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> <20080403080447.GB23061@nic.fr> Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1095811454==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============1095811454== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2517_8939049.1207248542318" ------=_Part_2517_8939049.1207248542318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > "Organizing this field" is a huge task and a complicated one. Finding > a good identifier for people (your original message) is much simpler). > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Martin Duerst wrote: > That's actually a feature. It would be great if everybody could agree > on a single set of requirements, but that hasn't been the case for at > least the last 15 years. Also, it's difficult to know what uses these > identifiers will be put to in the future, so the fact that there is > an unified syntax and one big space for everything helps a lot for > future extensibility and new uses. > I see already some satisfying person-identifying solutions for my needs and not trying to reinvent... But... for future use... I would like to have more relevant solution, so how do you think, can we invite developers of all mentioned identifying solutions to IETF discuss list to find requirements and fix assumption to develop one solution? Timur ------=_Part_2517_8939049.1207248542318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
"Organizing this field" is a huge task and a complicated one. Finding
a good identifier for people (your original message) is much simpler).

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:30 AM, Martin Duerst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote:
That's actually a feature. It would be great if everybody could agree
on a single set of requirements, but that hasn't been the case for at
least the last 15 years. Also, it's difficult to know what uses these
identifiers will be put to in the future, so the fact that there is
an unified syntax and one big space for everything helps a lot for
future extensibility and new uses.

I see already some satisfying person-identifying solutions for my needs and not trying to reinvent...
But... for future use... I would like to have more relevant solution, so how do you think,
can we invite developers of all mentioned identifying solutions to IETF discuss list to find
requirements and fix assumption to develop one solution?

Timur
------=_Part_2517_8939049.1207248542318-- --===============1095811454== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============1095811454==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 3 11:56:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E2928C2A2; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C624728C28D for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:56:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RS5ae54NVle5 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092B928C297 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-central-02.central.sun.com ([129.147.62.5]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m33Iu7jf018509 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:56:07 GMT Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by dm-central-02.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL, v2.2) with ESMTP id m33Iu7Lt028765 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m33Iu7Mo003266; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m33Iu77h003265; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:56:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:56:07 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URN for person and organization Message-ID: <20080403185607.GY16998@Sun.COM> References: <248bcd790804020533l33a5a56fu88b4964683c1ee53@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c894ef$41250960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <248bcd790804021310k6c36972qa16ef77eb3df132@mail.gmail.com> <20080402205544.GA16998@Sun.COM> <248bcd790804021414h4509f9bbg166ee75f5719e01b@mail.gmail.com> <20080403080447.GB23061@nic.fr> <248bcd790804031149n1becf3f3w34d0b090231d8e04@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804031149n1becf3f3w34d0b090231d8e04@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 09:49:02PM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote: > I see already some satisfying person-identifying solutions for my needs and > not trying to reinvent... > But... for future use... I would like to have more relevant solution, so how > do you think, > can we invite developers of all mentioned identifying solutions to IETF > discuss list to find > requirements and fix assumption to develop one solution? You write an Internet-Draft outlining requirements and, maybe, other I-Ds proposing one or more solutions, then ask for a BoF to be scheduled at the next IETF conference (and, if scheduled, you should show up). Nico -- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Apr 6 15:26:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891993A6B39; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:26:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410DA3A6860 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.318 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Ke2YhiJDoZj for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853CF28C0E9 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f47so1063955pye.20 for ; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:27:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=y61WmzEE5Sc6a4dgx3pasP3j9v7o8VzH0M5D9JX0JpY=; b=XDv1n2jr6qGxJjS+Nf1iT8KhiO4ahFG8avQjNsMN/MJn41i2wa1oEtqABKkWGJAYPkpffGFD2OmP+sbH+JOIzyMOB9fkkncNoq4AXoTlUbkrl9S0clxN3IhIkz5NjkJ54Hp7X1ATLc086zKXfqaKBJH9F8I8GTn7TQ9jIMnupjE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=ogZALaEWzV17zVQwErQP8ty8qSY/qOEESdGgsUhJQFeUt/GluzG4LMeCGcaFpETVZ4aS1AedGv+kxrC4hYPlV1cPyjFyIEkoeyagpcOCQZz6rIAm+z9i70CUHDFJ0OkfO6VskIIIgkEIrnel24qHtEP/xae6SBvHEr3Pg74FHCM= Received: by 10.64.196.9 with SMTP id t9mr7635230qbf.47.1207520819779; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.131.17 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <248bcd790804061526o1ae25543q549fe93d58fb27d0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 01:26:59 +0300 From: "Timur Shemsedinov" To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Subject: URL for spatio-temporal coordinates MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0887072373==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============0887072373== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12481_30687496.1207520819772" ------=_Part_12481_30687496.1207520819772 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello My friends, please do not consider me as URI-mad person, but developing architecture of my software solution I have encountered with necessity to have spatio-temporal URL (I suppose, it should be locator). For example, It should be great to have something like this: > gps:2008-04-20T12:45+03:00 > gps:50.39222N:30.6325E > gps:50.39222N:30.6325E@2008-04-20T12:45+03:00 > So, does anybody know URL schema for spatio-temporal coordinates? Timur ------=_Part_12481_30687496.1207520819772 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello

My friends, please do not consider me as URI-mad person, but developing architecture of my software solution
I have encountered with necessity to have spatio-temporal URL (I suppose, it should be locator).
For example, It should be great to have something like this:
gps:2008-04-20T12:45+03:00
gps:50.39222N:30.6325E
gps:50.39222N:30.6325E@2008-04-20T12:45+03:00
So, does anybody know URL schema for spatio-temporal coordinates?

Timur ------=_Part_12481_30687496.1207520819772-- --===============0887072373== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============0887072373==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 7 00:41:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACDE3A6C30; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 00:41:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D2E3A69CA for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 00:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K6ib5kajRrJz for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 00:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D566E3A67DA for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id D35991C00E5; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:41:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5E51C00D5; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:41:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C116458EBF1; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:41:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:41:28 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Timur Shemsedinov Subject: Re: URL for spatio-temporal coordinates Message-ID: <20080407074128.GA19697@nic.fr> References: <248bcd790804061526o1ae25543q549fe93d58fb27d0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <248bcd790804061526o1ae25543q549fe93d58fb27d0@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 01:26:59AM +0300, Timur Shemsedinov wrote a message of 48 lines which said: > I have encountered with necessity to have spatio-temporal URL (I > suppose, it should be locator). http://geouri.org/ draft-mayrhofer-geo-uri _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 7 08:06:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5DE28C3D4; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F083828C3D3 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:06:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y2SbOFKxFBSz for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B753A6881 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 40197204D3 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:06:16 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b019cbb000004ec0-12-47fa3868fd26 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.124]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 35B85204A5 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:06:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.177]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:06:15 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([147.214.183.239]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:06:15 +0200 Message-ID: <47FA3867.2000108@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:06:15 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Subject: TSVWG last call on "UDP Usage Guidelines for Application Designers" to BCP X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2008 15:06:15.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECFC4E40:01C898C0] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I would like to inform that currently TSVWG has started the WG last call on "UDP Usage Guidelines for Application Designers" (draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-guidelines-06) with the intended status of BCP. It runs until the 21st of April. If you like to provide any comments please send them to the TSVWG mailing list (tsvwg@ietf.org). Abstract: The User Datagram Protocol (UDP) provides a minimal, message-passing transport that has no inherent congestion control mechanisms. Because congestion control is critical to the stable operation of the Internet, applications and upper-layer protocols that choose to use UDP as an Internet transport must employ mechanisms to prevent congestion collapse and establish some degree of fairness with concurrent traffic. This document provides guidelines on the use of UDP for the designers of such applications and upper-layer protocols. Congestion control guidelines are a primary focus, but the document also provides guidance on other topics, including message sizes, reliability, checksums and middlebox traversal. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-guidelines-06.txt Best Regards Magnus Westerlund IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Fax +46 8 7575550 S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 9 08:57:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4414F3A68FE; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC4D28C214 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.238, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yTwIylwhZUfg for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C566A3A6870 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D8E142201; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cliqWcWCvXlU; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [74.95.2.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906C11421FC; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: Lisa Dusseault To: Apps Discuss , Lisa Dusseault's Chairs Subject: Lisa's Apps Area Activity for March/Apr Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:57:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1890687371==" Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org --===============1890687371== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--331304151 --Apple-Mail-2--331304151 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Document Status and Progress Active Documents: my action - draft-freed-sieve-date-index (Proposed Standard): In review - draft-ietf-sieve-editheader (Proposed Standard) I need to review - draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri (Proposed Standard): IESG Evaluation completed with a couple open issues Stalled, in review, waiting on other: - draft-klensin-rfc2821bis (Draft Standard): 2nd IETF Last Call is over, major discussion about MX/A/AAAA records, need new version - draft-monrad-sipping-3gpp-urn-namespace (Informational): Waiting for URN Namespace registry expert review - draft-ietf-lemonade-msgevent (Proposed Standard): In IETF Last Call - draft-snell-atompub-bidi (Proposed Standard): author waiting on some implementation feedback - draft-resnick-2822upd (Draft Standard): In IETF Last Call - draft-ietf-eai-dsn (Experimental): Finished IETF Last Call, waiting on sibling documents - draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto: Finished IETF Last Call, IANA has issues - draft-adolf-dvb-urn (Informational): Needs new version to address incomplete information about URN resolution Finished Processing -- new in RFC Ed queue and new RFCs - draft-ietf-sieve-body (Proposed Standard): DISCUSS from Tim Polk is probably resolved -- Tim will review - draft-ietf-imapext-sort (Proposed Standard) : In IESG Evaluation (3/27 telechat) - draft-evain-ebu-urn (Informational): Now in RFC Queue - draft-ietf-imapext-i18n (Proposed Standard): Now in RFC Queue --> will mean IMAPEXT List Extensions finally can exit RFC Queue - draft-creed-ogc-urn (Informational): Approved, in RFC Ed queue - draft-ietf-sieve-notify ( Proposed Standard): Approved, in RFC Ed queue - draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp: Approved, in RFC Ed queue - RFC 5138, was draft sjdcox-cgi-urn (Informational): A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for the Commission for the Management and Application of Geoscience Information (CGI) - RFC 5141, was draft-goodwin-iso-urn (Informational): A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) WG Status CALSIFY: Little activity. HTTPBIS: See summary of activity: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2008AprJun/0141.html IMAPEXT: In FIN-WAIT SIEVE: Normal discussion topics. USEFOR: No activity. --Apple-Mail-2--331304151 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Document Status and = Progress

Active Documents: my action
 - draft-freed-sieve-date-index (Proposed = Standard): In review
 - draft-klensin-rfc2821bis (Draft = Standard): 2nd IETF Last Call is over, major discussion about MX/A/AAAA = records, need new version
 - = draft-monrad-sipping-3gpp-urn-namespace (Informational): Waiting for URN = Namespace registry expert review
 - draft-ietf-lemonade-msgevent (Proposed = Standard): In IETF Last Call
 - draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto: =  Finished IETF Last Call, IANA has issues 

Finished Processing -- new in RFC Ed queue and = new RFCs
 - draft-ietf-sieve-notify = ( Proposed Standard): Approved, in RFC Ed queue
 - = draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp:  Approved, in RFC Ed = queue

 - RFC 5138, was draft sjdcox-cgi-urn = (Informational):       
A = Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for the Commission
for the Management and = Application of Geoscience Information (CGI)
 - RFC 5141, was draft-goodwin-iso-urn = (Informational):

       =        A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace = for

        the = International Organization for Standardization (ISO)



WG Status
  = CALSIFY: Little activity.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2008AprJun/0141.html=
  IMAPEXT: In = FIN-WAIT
  SIEVE: Normal = discussion topics.
  USEFOR: No = activity.  
= --Apple-Mail-2--331304151-- --===============1890687371== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss --===============1890687371==-- From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 14 20:09:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BE23A6D3E; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:09:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C74E3A6A1D for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:09:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.434, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x2sv2uvVJOxJ for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A5F3A6BC1 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JlbYB-00027L-85 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:09:39 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e15.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.21]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:09:39 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e15.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:09:39 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: discuss@apps.ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Subject: Lost review request Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:12:26 +0200 Organization: Lines: 45 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e15.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi, for reasons I haven't figured out yet two review requests posted last week apparently didn't make it. 1: That article should go to uri@w3 and uri-review@ietf, but arrived only in uri@w3. A question sent to the list owner address noted on the "other lists" and to ietf-action@ietf 2008-04-06 resulted in an auto-ack with a ticket number, if it resulted in anything else I didn't get it. 2: An article sent only to ietf-message-headers@ietf 2008-04-10 didn't arrive, the list is apparently dead. A question sent to the list owner address noted in the Web archive (just adding -owner) had no effect. To get the lost message "on public record" somewhere I repost it here: Subject: For review: Original-Recipient Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:45:28 +0200 [...] Hi, when draft-eai-dsn got its number it is time to add Original-Recipient to the registry. Bruce has this in draft-lilly-legacy-fields-00, but his I-D didn't move for three years. The Original-Recipient is not really a "legacy" field, it is only "unregistered". Frank ----------------------------------------------------- PERMANENT MESSAGE HEADER FIELD REGISTRATION TEMPLATE: Header field name: Original-Recipient Applicable protocol: mail Status: standard Author/Change controller: IETF Specification document(s): RFC 3798, draft-ietf-eai-dsn Related information: Also used in Delivery Status Notification (DSN) per-recipient fields (RFC 3464) in a message/delivery-status part. Compare RFC 2156 for an application of RFC 1894 DSNs (RFC 1894 was obsoleted by RFC 3464). _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 21 11:54:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72ECB3A68AF; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C333A685A for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILGffZP-8GO5 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFB63A689C for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=hardie@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1208804052; x=1240340052; h=mime-version:message-id:date:to:from:subject: content-type:x-ironport-av; z=MIME-Version:=201.0|Message-ID:=20|Date:=20Mon,=2021=20Apr=202008=2011:54:1 2=20-0700|To:=20|From:=20Ted=20Har die=20|Subject:=20[RAI]=20Fwd:=20P2P =20Infrastructure=20Workshop=20Announcement,=20May=2028, =202008|Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3D"us-asc ii"|X-IronPort-AV:=20E=3DMcAfee=3Bi=3D"5200,2160,5278"=3B =20a=3D"2404920"; bh=UHSuWqxt9+IvefYRCGpcZNBWXfUpqbCJeExer3SkIVw=; b=lOzW8Z5BEHVyP9mZ0a0jrx/gd6+g15diURRbAx05aiENveMSoMmHDod0 cTlQe7smn1E3VS7ORkZG9iRt1Vw6z0qFRtMdVqnFzR38gw0zGyodGOlcx uU7ItIJxzafK/58bCa6l3G6jdsD/ZXYM/paFKvwIo+0uqt5puwDS6+kEy 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5200,2160,5278"; a="2404920" Received: from pdmz-ns-mip.qualcomm.com (HELO numenor.qualcomm.com) ([199.106.114.10]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 21 Apr 2008 11:54:12 -0700 Received: from msgtransport05.qualcomm.com (msgtransport05.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.150]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id m3LIsBGM001378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:12 -0700 Received: from nasanexhc03.na.qualcomm.com (nasanexhc03.na.qualcomm.com [172.30.33.34]) by msgtransport05.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id m3LIsBCk025097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:11 -0700 Received: from [24.4.239.115] (10.50.16.168) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.33.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.263.0; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:54:12 -0700 To: From: Ted Hardie Subject: [RAI] Fwd: P2P Infrastructure Workshop Announcement, May 28, 2008 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org I was a bit surprised to see this being cast in a RAI context, since this is obviously of interest to the APPS (and, indeed, Internet) community as a whole. I hope folks from this community can contribute and attend. Ted > >>From: "IESG Secretary" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> >>Date: April 21, 2008 5:00:01 AM PDT >>To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org> >>Cc: <iesg@ietf.org> >>Subject: P2P Infrastructure Workshop Announcement, May 28, 2008 >> >>The Real-time Applications & Infrastructure (RAI) Area Directors, Jon >>Peterson and Cullen Jennings, would like to announce an IETF workshop on >>P2P Infrastructure to be held on May 28, 2008 at 50 Vassar St, Room >>34-101 on the MIT campus in Cambridge, MA USA. >> >>Several large ISPs have encountered issues with P2P traffic. The >>transfer of static, delay-tolerant data between nodes on the Internet is >>a well-understood problem, but traditional management of fairness at the >>transport level has largely been circumvented by applications designed >>to achieve the best end-user transfer rates. This results, at peak >>times, in networks running near absolute capacity, and in which all >>traffic incurs delays; the applications that bear the brunt of this >>additional latency are real-time applications like VoIP and Internet >>gaming. This has led to need for further discussion of the proper >>approaches to P2P application development, and infrastructure management >>in environments where P2P is commonly used. This workshop intends to >>discover where additional IETF standards work is needed, or existing >>work might be reapplied, to alleviate these difficulties. In particular, >>the workshop will draw on the experiences of Comcast and BitTorrent, >>representatives of both of whom will present their perspectives on the >>problem space. >> >>Example solution discussions might include, but are not limited to: >>deployment of application servers or caches to reduce network load; new >>rendez-vous mechanisms to optimize P2P network topology; enabling >>applications to signal their bandwidth needs (and priority or lack >>thereof) to networks; enabling networks to signal bandwidth constraints >>to elastic and inelastic applications; and, new approaches to fairness >>that are coupled with incentives for applications. Contributions from >>subject matter experts in the problem and solution space are >>welcome. The primary outcome should be a direction for one or more IETF >>efforts exploring the best practices for addressing these challenges. >> >>The organizers would like to stress that this is a technical workshop >>exploring engineering issues and practices. The public policy >>implications of P2P applications are not in the scope of this workshop. >> >>Position papers are requested from all attendees by May 9. Contact the >>RAI ADs for a waiver if it is inappropriate for you to submit a position >>paper. These should constitute one to five pages on the problem or >>solution space of P2P architectures, with a particular emphasis on areas >>that the IETF should address or revisit. Position papers will be made >>publicly available. On the basis of the position papers, a number of >>invited speakers will be asked to present at the workshop. A final >>agenda with timeslots will be published by May 16th. Potential attendees >>for whom it is not appropriate to supply a position paper may contact >>the RAI ADs for a waiver. >> >>Evaluation of the position papers will be performed with the assistance >>of a program committee consisting of the RAI ADs, Lars Eggert (Transport >>AD), Danny Weitzner (MIT), John Morris (CDT), and Dave Clark (MIT). >> >>Further information about position paper submission procedures are >>forthcoming. Interested parties are advised to subscribe to the >>p2pi@ietf.org mailing list for discussion and announcements related to >>the workshop. Additional information will be available at >>http://www3.tools.ietf.org/area/rai/trac/wiki/PeerToPeerInfrastructure. >> > _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 21 21:33:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2C33A6A49; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7853A6CB6 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CVjyAVLglD5s for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF0A3A6FA4 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFB0142209; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zLPA08N+XeaV; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [74.95.2.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1741014220C; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: Lisa Dusseault To: Ted Hardie In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Subject: Re: [RAI] Fwd: P2P Infrastructure Workshop Announcement, May 28, 2008 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:33:32 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org I've been talking to Cullen and Jon about this just recently. Because the issues and conversations that have inspired this workshop include net neutrality, metering, blocking, end-to-end and NAT traversal and more, there's just as good arguments for the Internet area and Transport as RAI or APPS. I'm making sure I can participate myself, but naturally I'll try to bring my best Apps perspective if I can make it :) thx for forwarding, Lisa On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Ted Hardie wrote: > I was a bit surprised to see this being cast in a RAI context, > since this is obviously of interest to the APPS (and, indeed, > Internet) community > as a whole. I hope folks from this community can contribute > and attend. > Ted > >> >>> From: "IESG Secretary" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org >>> > >>> Date: April 21, 2008 5:00:01 AM PDT >>> To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org> >>> Cc: <iesg@ietf.org> >>> Subject: P2P Infrastructure Workshop Announcement, May 28, 2008 >>> >>> The Real-time Applications & Infrastructure (RAI) Area Directors, >>> Jon >>> Peterson and Cullen Jennings, would like to announce an IETF >>> workshop on >>> P2P Infrastructure to be held on May 28, 2008 at 50 Vassar St, Room >>> 34-101 on the MIT campus in Cambridge, MA USA. >>> >>> Several large ISPs have encountered issues with P2P traffic. The >>> transfer of static, delay-tolerant data between nodes on the >>> Internet is >>> a well-understood problem, but traditional management of fairness >>> at the >>> transport level has largely been circumvented by applications >>> designed >>> to achieve the best end-user transfer rates. This results, at peak >>> times, in networks running near absolute capacity, and in which all >>> traffic incurs delays; the applications that bear the brunt of this >>> additional latency are real-time applications like VoIP and Internet >>> gaming. This has led to need for further discussion of the proper >>> approaches to P2P application development, and infrastructure >>> management >>> in environments where P2P is commonly used. This workshop intends to >>> discover where additional IETF standards work is needed, or existing >>> work might be reapplied, to alleviate these difficulties. In >>> particular, >>> the workshop will draw on the experiences of Comcast and BitTorrent, >>> representatives of both of whom will present their perspectives on >>> the >>> problem space. >>> >>> Example solution discussions might include, but are not limited to: >>> deployment of application servers or caches to reduce network >>> load; new >>> rendez-vous mechanisms to optimize P2P network topology; enabling >>> applications to signal their bandwidth needs (and priority or lack >>> thereof) to networks; enabling networks to signal bandwidth >>> constraints >>> to elastic and inelastic applications; and, new approaches to >>> fairness >>> that are coupled with incentives for applications. Contributions >>> from >>> subject matter experts in the problem and solution space are >>> welcome. The primary outcome should be a direction for one or more >>> IETF >>> efforts exploring the best practices for addressing these >>> challenges. >>> >>> The organizers would like to stress that this is a technical >>> workshop >>> exploring engineering issues and practices. The public policy >>> implications of P2P applications are not in the scope of this >>> workshop. >>> >>> Position papers are requested from all attendees by May 9. Contact >>> the >>> RAI ADs for a waiver if it is inappropriate for you to submit a >>> position >>> paper. These should constitute one to five pages on the problem or >>> solution space of P2P architectures, with a particular emphasis on >>> areas >>> that the IETF should address or revisit. Position papers will be >>> made >>> publicly available. On the basis of the position papers, a number of >>> invited speakers will be asked to present at the workshop. A final >>> agenda with timeslots will be published by May 16th. Potential >>> attendees >>> for whom it is not appropriate to supply a position paper may >>> contact >>> the RAI ADs for a waiver. >>> >>> Evaluation of the position papers will be performed with the >>> assistance >>> of a program committee consisting of the RAI ADs, Lars Eggert >>> (Transport >>> AD), Danny Weitzner (MIT), John Morris (CDT), and Dave Clark (MIT). >>> >>> Further information about position paper submission procedures are >>> forthcoming. Interested parties are advised to subscribe to the >>> p2pi@ietf.org mailing list for discussion >>> and announcements related to >>> the workshop. Additional information will be available at >>> >> >http://www3.tools.ietf.org/area/rai/trac/wiki/PeerToPeerInfrastructure >>> . >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Apps-Discuss mailing list > Apps-Discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 22 09:52:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-apps-discuss-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28113A6B01; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0860028C2FF for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6tJxqu2Yk8O2 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A774428C445 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.162] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m3MGq3tl056690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:02 -0700 To: Lisa Dusseault , Ted Hardie From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [RAI] Fwd: P2P Infrastructure Workshop Announcement, May 28, 2008 Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org At 9:33 PM -0700 4/21/08, Lisa Dusseault wrote: >I've been talking to Cullen and Jon about this just recently. Because >the issues and conversations that have inspired this workshop include >net neutrality, metering, blocking, end-to-end and NAT traversal and >more, there's just as good arguments for the Internet area and >Transport as RAI or APPS. The Apps folks should definitely participate in that the discussion is, fundamentally, about applications that are user-focused. _______________________________________________ Apps-Discuss mailing list Apps-Discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss