Subject: [apps-discuss] Default charset in vCard

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:30:57 -0400

Hi,

I took at look at draft-ietf-appsawg-mime-default-charset-03 to compare 
against what we have in vCard 4.

In vCard 4, we basically say two things:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.1

1. The charset is always UTF-8.
2. If you use the charset parameter, it MUST be UTF-8.

It looks like it goes against the recommendation in your draft:

    a.  specify that the "charset" parameter is not used for the defined
        subtype, because the charset information is transported inside
        the payload (such as in "text/xml"), or
    b.  require explicit unconditional inclusion of the "charset"
        parameter eliminating the need for a default value.
[...]
    New subtypes of the "text" media type, thus, SHOULD NOT define a
    default "charset" value.  If there is a strong reason to do so
    despite this advice, they SHOULD use the "UTF-8" [RFC3629] charset as
    the default.

So, two questions:

- Am I reading this right? Is there actually a conflict?
- Should this be fixed eventually in a vCard 4 bis?

Thanks,
Simon
-- 
DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca
NAT64/DNS64 open-source        --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca
STUN/TURN server               --> http://numb.viagenie.ca

---

From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:37:18 +0200

> against what we have in vCard 4.

Ack.

> 1. The charset is always UTF-8.

As far as I can tell, that's not in-line with RFC 2046 which defines the 
default to be US-ASCII.

> - Am I reading this right? Is there actually a conflict?

I wouldn't call it a conflict. We just changed the defaults for new 
registrations. That doesn't change existing ones.

> - Should this be fixed eventually in a vCard 4 bis?

You could, if that doesn't result in an incompatible change.

As far as I can tell, with

 > 1. The charset is always UTF-8.

you were already outside what RFC 2046 says, and close to what the new 
recommendation is...

Best regards, Julian

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:03:54 -0600

> you were already outside what RFC 2046 says, and close to what the new

Agreed, and that's a good place to be (defaulting to ASCII at this point
seems more than a bit old-fashioned).

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

---

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:14:36 -0400

> As far as I can tell, that's not in-line with RFC 2046 which defines the

Definitely. RFC 2046 is broken, we all agree on that. We tried to do the 
right thing.

> registrations. That doesn't change existing ones.

Right, but I meant to ask "if we were to do it again (for vCard), would 
we do it differently based on what is proposed here (in this draft)?"

Specifically "New subtypes of the "text" media type, thus, SHOULD NOT 
define a default "charset" value."

And if the answer is "yes we would do it differently", I would find that 
very suspect.

Thanks,
Simon

---

From: Larry Masinter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:48:02 -0700

> And if the answer is "yes we would do it differently", I would find that 

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6350&eid=3199

---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:37:41 +0100

On 23/04/2012 15:37, Julian Reschke wrote:
> As far as I can tell, that's not in-line with RFC 2046 which defines 
> the default to be US-ASCII.
I always interpreted the text in vCard 4.0 as always requiring 
"charset=UTF-8". At least that is what I wanted the spec to say.
>> parameter eliminating the need for a default value.
If I am right above, then b) applies. So text/vcard is Ok.
>> - Should this be fixed eventually in a vCard 4 bis?
I don't see a need. Although you can make the charset parameter optional.
> You could, if that doesn't result in an incompatible change.
Right.
> you were already outside what RFC 2046 says, and close to what the new 
I think it already complies with our draft, but please double check that.

---

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:49:02 -0400

> "charset=UTF-8". At least that is what I wanted the spec to say.

charset is optional in vCard 4. It is listed under the "optional 
parameters" heading in the media type registration template.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-10.1

> If I am right above, then b) applies. So text/vcard is Ok.

And what if you're wrong above? ;)

Simon

---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:10:14 +0100

> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-10.1
Damn :-)
> And what if you're wrong above? ;)
Well, then the charset draft will make it legal according to new rules 
;-). So basically you don't need to do anything in the future.

But as Julian already said: our draft doesn't affect older registrations.