Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] [ISOC] NEWS RELEASE: World IPv6 Launch Unites Industry Leaders to Redefine the Global Internet

From: Jacob Palme <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 12:18:29 +0200

What happens if
(a) I have an IPV4 IP-address, and send a mail to someone who
has an IPV6 IP-address. And that someone replies to my mail.
Will the mails reach their recipients?

Or the reverse,
(b) I have an IPV6 IP-address, and send a mail to someone who
has an IPV4 IP-address. And that someone replies to my mail.
Will the mails reach their recipients?

Also if my SMTP server uses IPV4, or uses IPV6, and my
correspondents SMTP sever uses IPv4, or uses IPV6. Also if
my POP or IMAC server uses IPV4, or uses IPV6, and my
correspondents POP or IMAC server uses IPV4 or IPV6.

What happens if I have an IPV4 address and send an HTTP
request to Google, will Google reply as if had an IPV6
address? And if I have an old-style IPV4 web browser, will
I then not be able to see Google's response?

I am using Eudora 6.2.4 (2006) copyright QUALCOMM, will I
not be able to send and receive e-mail in the future,
unless I switch to a newer, IPV6 aware mail client?

I am also using a Spamfire Spam filter, vesiron 1.6.2 anno
2003 Matterform Media, which I assume has never heard of
IPV6. Will my spam filter and all the many hundreds of spam
recognition commands which I have stored for Spamfire, stop
working when my POP server switches to IPV6, stop working?
Spamfire is not any more supported by its ceator
Matterform, who made a much less competent version 2 of
Spamfire, which I refused to switch to.

Or will all the world's servers support both IPV4 or IPV6
depending on the protocol of the clients which access them?

If so, what is meant when "Google, Facebook, YouTube, and
Yahoo!" will permanently enable IPV6? Do I have to throw
away all computers and mobile phones and replace them with
IPV6 versions? Or does it only mean that they will use IPV6
if accessed by someone who has an IPV6 client?

I am using an internet service provider, who gives me an IP
number using DHPC when I connect to it. Will my internet
service provider in the future (when?) give me IPV6
addresses using DHCP? Does this mean that I have to replace
all internet client software on all my computers with IPV6
enabled client software?

I am sure that hardware and software vendors will wrap
their hands in pleasure of having to sell replacement for
all the world's hardware and software. I am accustomed to
them using other methods to force me to buy new hardware
and software every three or every five years or so.

Assume a library where all the pages of all the books turn
blank after three years. That is the way, which the
computer world works. Will the switch to IPV6 be another
way of making book pages go blank?

And then allow a few selected books be readable again if I
buy new hardware and software?

At 20.14 -0400 12-06-05, [email-masked] wrote:
>World IPv6 Launch Unites Industry Leaders to Redefine the Global Internet
>
>As leading websites, ISPs, and home router equipment manufacturers support IPv6 by default, it becomes the new normal for the Internet
>
>[WASHINGTON, D.C. and GENEVA, Switzerland, --  5 June 2012] - To ensure the Internet can continue to grow and connect billions more people and devices around the world, thousands of companies and millions of websites have now permanently enabled the next generation of Internet Protocol (IPv6) for their products and services. Participants in World IPv6 Launch include the four most visited websites in the world -  Google, Facebook, YouTube, and Yahoo! - as well as home router manufacturers and Internet Service Providers in more than 100 countries. By making IPv6 the "new normal," these companies are enabling millions of end users to enjoy its benefits without having to do anything themselves.
>
>World IPv6 Launch is organized by the Internet Society as part of its mission to ensure that the Internet remains open and accessible for everyone - including the other five billion people not yet connected to the Internet. "The support of IPv6 from these thousands of organizations delivers a critical message to the world: IPv6 is not just a 'nice to have'; it is ready for business today and will very soon be a 'must have,'" said Leslie Daigle, Chief Internet Technology Officer, Internet Society. "We believe that the commitment of these companies to deploy IPv6 will ensure that they remain industry leaders. Any company wishing to be effective in the new Internet should do the same."
>
>The World IPv6 Day in 2011 was a 24-hour test that focused on websites. This year, World IPv6 Launch is a permanent commitment across the Internet industry, including ISPs and home networking equipment manufacturers around the world, laying the foundation to accelerate the deployment of IPv6 across the global Internet. Major websites are permanently enabling IPv6 starting 6 June 2012 at 0000 UTC on their main websites. ISPs will permanently enable IPv6 across a significant portion of their current and all new residential wireline subscribers. Home networking equipment manufacturers will enable IPv6 by default through their range of home router products, and recent commitments to IPv6 by companies beyond websites demonstrates a broader support of the new Internet Protocol.
>
>This is imperative as the last blocks of the 4.3 billion IP addresses enabled by the current Internet Protocol (IPv4) were assigned to the Regional Internet Registries in February 2011. Already there is no remaining IPv4 address space to be distributed in the Asia Pacific region, and very soon the rest of the globe will follow. IPv4 address space is expected to run out in Europe this year, in the U.S. next year, and in Latin America and Africa in 2014. IPv6 provides more than 340 trillion, trillion, trillion addresses (an essentially unlimited number), which will help connect the billions of people that are not connected today, allow a wide range of devices to connect directly with one another, and help ensure the Internet can continue its current growth rate indefinitely.
>
>For more information about World IPv6 Launch and the participating companies, as well as links to useful information for users and how other companies can participate in the continued deployment of IPv6, visit: http://www.worldipv6launch.org
>
>About the need for IPv6
>IPv4 has approximately four billion IP addresses (the sequence of numbers assigned to each Internet-connected device). The explosion in the number of people, devices, and web services on the Internet means that IPv4 is running out of space. IPv6, the next-generation Internet protocol which provides more than 340 trillion, trillion, trillion addresses, will connect the billions of people not connected today and will help ensure the Internet can continue its current growth rate indefinitely.
>
>About the Internet Society
>The Internet Society is the trusted independent source for Internet information and thought leadership from around the world. With its principled vision and substantial technological foundation, the Internet Society promotes open dialogue on Internet policy, technology, and future development among users, companies, governments, and other organizations. Working with its members and Chapters around the world, the Internet Society enables the continued evolution and growth of the Internet for everyone. For more information, visit www.internetsociety.org.
>
>
>Supporting Quotes from World IPv6 Launch Participants:
>
>Akamai
>"IPv6 is critical to the future of the Internet's underlying architecture, and to supporting the billions of devices that will connect to the Internet over the coming years," said Tom Leighton, chief scientist and co-founder, Akamai.  "Having expanded our global IPv6 footprint to over 50 countries, Akamai enables Web sites to reach a growing audience over IPv6 with the performance and reliability that they have come to expect, and demand, from IPv4.  We applaud the work of The Internet Society and so many of today's businesses that have prepared for this important transition - ensuring the Internet remains a robust, collaborative, and infinitely accessible platform."
>
>AT&T
>"With ubiquitous IP connectivity becoming a reality, IPv6 is critical to ensuring applications and services can reach users anywhere they live and work. AT&T has been a leader in the transition to IPv6 for many years, and we're excited to participate in World IPv6 Launch by enabling IPv6 by default for nearly one million of our broadband subscribers and dual-stack enabling our enterprise, consumer, and corporate websites and portals." Krish Prabhu, President of AT&T Labs and Chief Technology Officer for AT&T
>
>Bing for Microsoft
>"World IPv6 Launch is a significant milestone in achieving the next generation of the Internet, and Bing is proud to have worked alongside so many dedicated industry leaders to make this day possible," said Derrick Connell, corporate vice president of Bing for Microsoft.  "All of us at Microsoft who have worked together with our industry partners to make World IPv6 Launch a reality look forward to advancing our work and support as IPv6 becomes adopted on a broader scale."
>
>Cisco
>Cisco SVP Engineering and General Manager Service Provider Business, Pankaj Patel, says, "The Internet has fueled remarkable economic growth and innovation that would have never happened without a network.  Today, we face an explosion of connected devices moving data and content, especially video, and of applications and services coming from the Cloud.  IPv6 enables the network -- the platform on which innovation is built -- to scale and make more growth more possible, today and into the future."
>
>Comcast
>"We at Comcast take great pride in being an innovator and technical leader. As a result of our team's hard work, enabling IPv6 in over a third of our network, I am happy to report that by today we have exceeded our goal of 1% of our customer base being enabled with IPv6 for World IPv6 Launch! Thank you to the Internet Society and others for organizing and participating in this important event!" - John Schanz, Chief Network Officer, Comcast
>
>Facebook
>"As more and more people and devices connect to the web, supporting IPv6 has become crucial to the future scalability of the Internet," said Jay Parikh, Vice President of Infrastructure at Facebook. "It's awesome to see so many people and companies working together across the world to make progress on this transition."
>
>Google
>"IPv6 is key to preserving the health and openness of the Internet for decades to come," said Stephen Stuart, Distinguished Engineer at Google. "We're proud to be one of the founding participants in World IPv6 Launch, and we look forward to the day when IPv6 is available to Internet users everywhere."
>
>Internode
>"At Internode we are already using IPv6 (Internet Protocol version 6) to deliver Internet access to more than two per cent of our customers. During the past five years, Internode has acquired a great deal of understanding from deploying IPv6 on our national and international broadband networks, thereby providing a risk-free pathway for our customers when they use IPv6 and it is now ready for prime time," said Internode founder and managing director Simon Hackett. "The most important lesson for Internode is that done right, customers will not even notice the change to IPv6. Internode commends the World IPv6 Launch as the time that website publishers, other Internet Service Providers and all companies manufacturing equipment for Internet access should also enable IPv6 access by default."
>
>Yahoo!
>"Yahoo! is proud to be part of this historic effort to transition to the next generation Internet Protocol.  Together, we are helping ensure the long-term health and growth of the Internet, which has become a critical part of people's lives around the globe." - Jason Fesler, Distinguished Architect and IPv6 Evangelist, Yahoo!
>
>
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-- 
Jacob Palme <[email-masked]>, university professor emeritus
for more info see URL: http://www.dsv.su.se/jpalme/

---

From: Ned Freed <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:32:05 -0700 (PDT)

> Will the mails reach their recipients?

First of all, the question is not well posed because you haven't specified the
roles or operations involved. "Someones" do not exhange mail, MUAs submit and
retrieve mail, MSA and MTAs transfer mail, MDAs deliver mail, and mail is
delivered to and retrieved from message stores. All of these operations can be
done over the network.

If you're talking about MTAs transferring mail, then an MTA that only has an
IPv4  address cannot send mail to an MTA that only has an IPv6 address. So the
operation you described fails before a response could even occur.

If, OTOH, you're talking about MUAs, then there are most intermediate steps
involved and haven't specified their characteristis in sufficient detail
to respond.

All that said, the present day reality, as well as the likely reality for all
but the very long term, is that while MTAs may choose to support IPv6, and
perhaps even use it exclusively in some unusual situations, any generally
accessible Internet MTA has to have IPv4 addresses and be able to make and
accept IPv4 connections to be able to function. So the "what if" scenario you
posit cannot occur.

As for MUAs, there are scenarios where it is perfectly reasonable to transition
to IPv6 exclusively for submission and retrieval. There are also scenarios
where that isn't possible.

> Will the mails reach their recipients?

Same response.

> correspondents POP or IMAC server uses IPV4 or IPV6.

See above.

> address?

> And if I have an old-style IPV4 web browser, will

Since the response in HTTP occurs on the same connection, this is a "can't
happen" case.

> unless I switch to a newer, IPV6 aware mail client?

The cases where MUAs will use IPv6 exclusively are ones where the network
environment is controlled and restricted, e.g. some cellular networks. You
won't be able to connect your Eudora client to such networks in any case,
irrespective of the protocols it does or does not support.

But yes, it's possible that at some point in the distant future - almost
certainly the *very* distant future - IPv4 will be abandoned in favor of IPv6
for email. If and when that happens, your Eudora client, assuming you would
even be able to run it at that point, will cease to work. So what? Time marches
on. There are literally truckloads of applications that only run on systems
that are no longer available. For that matter, there are applications that
depend on network protocols that are no longer supported. This is reality; deal
with it.

> Spamfire, which I refused to switch to.

Sure, that could also fail. But it is far more likely that all the rules
you spent time building will become irrelevant or obsolete *long* before
you're faced with any sort of mandatory IPv6 transition.

> Yahoo!" will permanently enable IPV6?

At least some of these already have "permanently enabled IPv6", which
modulo the "happy eyeballs" issue doesn't affect IPv4 at all.

The issue you're worried about is them disabling IPv4. And like email
transitioning to IPv6, that is not going to happen for a *very* long time,
assuming it ever happens.

> Do I have to throw

Same response again: At some point in the distant future IPv4 may go away.
When that happens yes, IPv4-only gear will cease to work. 

> all internet client software on all my computers with IPV6

Same response.

> and software every three or every five years or so.

Total nonsense. We're lucky if hardware and software vendors see past next
quarter revenue. The time horizon for a transition to an IPv6-only world is
best measured in decades, assuming it even happens. It's like thinking a
mosquito would be ecstatic about the effect of global warming.

> way of making book pages go blank?

The loss of access to existing media is a real, and very serious, problem. IPv6
has almost nothing to do with it.

> buy new hardware and software?

Again, this is a serious problem, but IPv6 is not part of it.

				Ned

---

From: SM <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 13:52:19 -0700

Hi Jacob,
>Will the mails reach their recipients?

No.

>Will the mails reach their recipients?

No.

>I then not be able to see Google's response?

No.

>unless I switch to a newer, IPV6 aware mail client?

Short answer, you may have to switch.  The long answer is that you 
can tunnel between IPv4 and IPv6 if your operating system supports that.

>working when my POP server switches to IPV6, stop working?

Yes.

>depending on the protocol of the clients which access them?

It is better to support both during the long transition period.

>if accessed by someone who has an IPV6 client?

It means that they will use IPv6 for IPv6 clients.

>addresses using DHCP?

If it supports that technology, yes.

>  Does this mean that I have to replace

If IPv6 is widely used, yes.

>and software every three or every five years or so.

:-)

>way of making book pages go blank?

Yes.

>buy new hardware and software?

Yes.

Regards,
-sm