From nobody Tue Sep 1 02:12:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A851B3ACE for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z-0YApoWZALn for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.162]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8651B39D9 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.206]) by relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWhcE-0005lz-l5; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:12:30 +0100 Received: from oerc-dynamic-223.oerc.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.194.223]) by smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWhcE-0000c9-LA; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:12:30 +0100 Message-ID: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:12:39 +0100 From: Graham Klyne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "apps-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Cc: "drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org" Subject: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:12:34 -0000 All, I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of header field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2]. This registration request is part of an ISE RFC submission. Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears to be compatible with that usage. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication passes ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current permanent registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. Does anyone here disagree? #g -- For ease of reference, the registration templates: From RFC5536 [1]: [[ Header field name: Organization Applicable protocol: netnews Status: standard Author/change controller: IETF Specification document(s): This document (Section 3.2.9) ]] and [[ 3.2.9. Organization The Organization header field is a short phrase identifying the poster's organization. organization = "Organization:" SP unstructured CRLF NOTE: There is no "s" in Organization. ]] From draft-davin-eesst [2]: [[ Header field name: Organization Applicable protocol: mail Status: provisional Author/Change controller: James R. Davin info@eesst.org http://www.eesst.org Specification document(s): draft-davin-eesst-04 Related information: The value of this header field identifies the organization or institution to which belongs the originator of the relevant message. ]] From nobody Tue Sep 1 02:21:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FE51B8CE9 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQo_3unzJu4p for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com (mail-oi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F63E1B8CE4 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oigm66 with SMTP id m66so74522046oig.0 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 02:21:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=s0FduAEQjPdCxS9APnn+l3DQrYPYn7LDzO88sXpmW1s=; b=Y50c8W+0usctsWTejKT9K+h+A5bnurMyFvntp/11kis+G+IMHOBT3OjvbDegCJ4y7W fKkDUc5CENnXcJw+Rm0CvGVb654qcTctHPuBWx8W5X99Kw+Q7I4aeE6Jb8tWvVSTzb3t wc+gh0uW7ve6MX+tmsieaSauy4IWIjzfavykY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=s0FduAEQjPdCxS9APnn+l3DQrYPYn7LDzO88sXpmW1s=; b=huhf4/s6abdyTpfwcBx5vad8yyev3HbSq2yWClEa9dMQWIz9zMKf8xgMrtB7AfVSEH AfSoAjHUJfnxgzWczXaMERKb6us1vqry6iB4gpKiq3drWmcuD/bCH/WYHS4o3qUAqYb1 EohFjYX8hpurJ5S5+glRLsuJ1NaoIabal7S+l08ihChrayWRhpvND3S+QEzbUPMKXAng ASyLAoJXqV6sUTc5NWLsnD7l36t6+fDfDzzDJxV9WnMrjMwfNKVA1PNi1iV5zgeT2fu0 CniYwgcrq/BNAGCXuWvAw9RYbNbVqu49K519sfaHFRWnzbhY/6SepdbhJF7Zzgc2WMzF fe6w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnv67RGjIAn32imkEJk6+D/CZv2by+jLPCXTNiyZfZReq4Ra/mVVJlA5kcI3Toscy51aRty MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.95.138 with SMTP id t132mr15455573oib.55.1441099301754; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 02:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.67.138 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:21:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:21:41 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: Graham Klyne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cd41af7b04b051eac130e Archived-At: Cc: "drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org" , "apps-discuss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:21:48 -0000 --001a113cd41af7b04b051eac130e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 1 September 2015 at 10:12, Graham Klyne wrote: > All, > > I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of header > field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2]. This registration request > is part of an ISE RFC submission. > > Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in netnews > [1], and the new registration request [2] appears to be compatible with > that usage. > > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 > > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 > > Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise any > red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication passes > ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current permanent > registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable > protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. > > Does anyone here disagree? > Not at all; I'm surprised it's not been previously used. I had an idea it might have been mentioned in the MIXER specifications, but I can't immediately find it. Dave. --001a113cd41af7b04b051eac130e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 1 September 2015 at 10:12, Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org><= /span> wrote:
All,

I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of head= er field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2].=C2=A0 This re= gistration request is part of an ISE RFC submission.

Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in netnews [1= ], and the new registration request [2] appears to be compatible with that = usage.

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9=

[2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-da= vin-eesst-04#section-8.2

Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise an= y red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication = passes ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current pe= rmanent registration of "Organization:" to also include email as = an applicable protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference.<= br>
Does anyone here disagree?

Not at all; = I'm surprised it's not been previously used. I had an idea it might= have been mentioned in the MIXER specifications, but I can't immediate= ly find it.

Dave.=C2=A0
--001a113cd41af7b04b051eac130e-- From nobody Tue Sep 1 02:33:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50EB1B53BB for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:33:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYCM9t0NXr3f for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrus.dir.garr.it (cyrus.dir.garr.it [193.206.158.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 154521B88CE for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: internal info suppressed User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----83MMOOBCCQD00YBIU0OJABUGHLP44D" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Claudio Allocchio Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 11:31:18 +0200 To: Dave Cridland , Graham Klyne Message-ID: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=garr.it; s=cyrus; t=1441099898; bh=4PpHxJoofejQK2BQDGbGTXjJ4ZcHal6gpk1xvSMdfn4=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Date:To:CC; b=DyNVVLW7IImYIIQspTv69DNnDHHcsNajLgMM4MM47VNBkEVQF4dy81AYuNPFUrMqR rCz+seCkfSUNFsie21fX3GOvjEzHylxgO7f+XGIGcorGgXGG7j6Nb4i4olmjHLmJI7 TEmZW08+Peq9iyXQs6tpskamWIAcrb0CrWzQVZLA= Archived-At: Cc: "drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org" , "apps-discuss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:33:56 -0000 ------83MMOOBCCQD00YBIU0OJABUGHLP44D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In MIXER it was the X.400 corresponding field... But I think it was not mapped to an header field.. Need to check ;-) On September 1, 2015 11:21:41 AM CEST, Dave Cridland wrote: >On 1 September 2015 at 10:12, Graham Klyne wrote: > >> All, >> >> I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of >header >> field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2]. This registration >request >> is part of an ISE RFC submission. >> >> Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in >netnews >> [1], and the new registration request [2] appears to be compatible >with >> that usage. >> >> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 >> >> [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 >> >> Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise >any >> red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication >passes >> ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current >permanent >> registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an >applicable >> protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. >> >> Does anyone here disagree? >> > >Not at all; I'm surprised it's not been previously used. I had an idea >it >might have been mentioned in the MIXER specifications, but I can't >immediately find it. > >Dave. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >apps-discuss mailing list >apps-discuss@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------83MMOOBCCQD00YBIU0OJABUGHLP44D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In MIXER it was the X.400 corresponding field... But I think it was not mapped to an header field.. Need to check ;-)


On September 1, 2015 11:21:41 AM CEST, Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:


On 1 September 2015 at 10:12, Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:
All,

I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of header field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2].  This registration request is part of an ISE RFC submission.

Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears to be compatible with that usage.

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9

[2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2

Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication passes ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current permanent registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference.

Does anyone here disagree?

Not at all; I'm surprised it's not been previously used. I had an idea it might have been mentioned in the MIXER specifications, but I can't immediately find it.

Dave. 


apps-discuss mailing list
apps-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------83MMOOBCCQD00YBIU0OJABUGHLP44D-- From nobody Tue Sep 1 02:45:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A3F1B8839 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:45:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qEeq4qj4JPPU for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A20201B3790 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWi7b-0002Wa-Rb; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 05:44:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 05:44:50 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Graham Klyne , apps-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <6DFCAAECFA36F31BBE3C5570@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Cc: drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:45:00 -0000 Graham, This is not an objection, merely two comments: (1) If anyone is still paying attention to or using X.400, even as a discussion/terminology framework, the closer this header field gets to email, the more likelihood there is of confusion with the MTS.OrganizationName and MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames.value which are fairly highly structured rather than being the unstructured strings of Netnews/ RFC 5536. More specifically (and still relevant regardless of what one things of X.400 usage), there are possibly interactions with ITU X.660 and ISO/IEC 9834-1, and the registration authority hierarchy they establish. If we are going to do this, I think it would be sensible to include a comment in either the spec, the registry, or both that there is no expectation that the names themselves will be registered or harmonious with ITU X.660 / ISO/IEC 9834-1 registered strings (assuming that is actually the case). (2) In the future, it would save those of us who are inclined to respond to questions of this nature a bit of time if you included the exact name, and preferably a URL, for the registry itself in your note. best, john --On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 10:12 +0100 Graham Klyne wrote: > All, > > I've received a request to review provisional IANA > registration of header field "Organization:" for use in email, > per [2]. This registration request is part of an ISE RFC > submission. > > Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use > in netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears > to be compatible with that usage. > > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 > > [2] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 > > Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't > raise any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the > containing publication passes ISE review, I think it would be > appropriate to update the current permanent registration of > "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable > protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. > > Does anyone here disagree? > ># g > -- > > For ease of reference, the registration templates: > > From RFC5536 [1]: > > [[ > Header field name: Organization > Applicable protocol: netnews > Status: standard > Author/change controller: IETF > Specification document(s): This document (Section 3.2.9) > ]] > > and > > [[ > 3.2.9. Organization > > The Organization header field is a short phrase > identifying the > poster's organization. > > organization = "Organization:" SP unstructured CRLF > > NOTE: There is no "s" in Organization. > ]] > > > From draft-davin-eesst [2]: > > [[ > Header field name: Organization > > Applicable protocol: mail > > Status: provisional > > Author/Change controller: James R. Davin > info@eesst.org > http://www.eesst.org > > Specification document(s): draft-davin-eesst-04 > > Related information: > The value of this header field identifies the > organization or > institution to which belongs the originator of the > relevant > message. > ]] > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From nobody Tue Sep 1 06:14:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8F01B44EA for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 06:14:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xtyhmM9OS4Vb for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 06:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 048EF1B382D for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 06:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWlO8-000371-7q; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:14:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:14:07 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Claudio Allocchio , Dave Cridland , Graham Klyne Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Cc: drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 13:14:28 -0000 --On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 11:31 +0200 Claudio Allocchio wrote: > In MIXER it was the X.400 corresponding field... But I think > it was not mapped to an header field.. Need to check ;-) It wasn't. It is mapped into the address in either of two ways, but not a header. I checked last night before sending my note. I do have a vague recollection of an Organization header field in one of the spin-offs of Internet mail, perhaps a secured military one, many years ago, but that was never officially on the IETF radar. john From nobody Tue Sep 1 07:32:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6ED1B40AF; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nnrpWP8MDdTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B3E1B4075; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150901143138.27527.46722.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 07:31:38 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: appsawg-chairs@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases.shepherd@ietf.org, draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases@ietf.org, draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases.ad@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:32:11 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS From nobody Wed Sep 2 02:10:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61791B5032 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:10:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T0vNDEE7sxH1 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D5D1B502E for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.207]) by relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZX44D-00077q-pw; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 10:10:53 +0100 Received: from gklyne38.plus.com ([81.174.129.24] helo=conina.atuin.ninebynine.org) by smtp4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZX44C-0005JV-G1; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 10:10:53 +0100 Message-ID: <55E6BD1C.1070000@ninebynine.org> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 10:10:52 +0100 From: Graham Klyne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin , apps-discuss@ietf.org References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> <6DFCAAECFA36F31BBE3C5570@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <6DFCAAECFA36F31BBE3C5570@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Cc: drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:10:59 -0000 Hi John, Thanks for this. I agree I should have included a link to the Message Headers registry [1] - sorry for the omission. Looking at your note, and if its not too late, I'm inclined to request a small tweak to the registration template in [2], such as: [[ Header field name: Organization Applicable protocol: mail Status: informational Author/Change controller: James R. Davin info@eesst.org http://www.eesst.org Specification document(s): draft-davin-eesst-04 Related information: The value of this header field identifies the organization or institution to which belongs the originator of the relevant message. Note: this field is quite distinct from mail headers MTS.OrganizationName and MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames.value used with X.400 mail. ]] I think that is sufficient to flag the alternative and conveys the essence of what you are say here. (But I note the MTS.* values you mention are not recorded in the header registry.) Does this work for you? #g -- [1] http://www.iana.org/assignments/message-headers/message-headers.xhtml [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 On 01/09/2015 10:44, John C Klensin wrote: > Graham, > > This is not an objection, merely two comments: > > (1) If anyone is still paying attention to or using X.400, even > as a discussion/terminology framework, the closer this header > field gets to email, the more likelihood there is of confusion > with the MTS.OrganizationName and > MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames.value which are fairly highly > structured rather than being the unstructured strings of > Netnews/ RFC 5536. More specifically (and still relevant > regardless of what one things of X.400 usage), there are > possibly interactions with ITU X.660 and ISO/IEC 9834-1, and > the registration authority hierarchy they establish. > > If we are going to do this, I think it would be sensible to > include a comment in either the spec, the registry, or both that > there is no expectation that the names themselves will be > registered or harmonious with ITU X.660 / ISO/IEC 9834-1 > registered strings (assuming that is actually the case). > > (2) In the future, it would save those of us who are inclined to > respond to questions of this nature a bit of time if you > included the exact name, and preferably a URL, for the registry > itself in your note. > > best, > john > > > --On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 10:12 +0100 Graham Klyne > wrote: > >> All, >> >> I've received a request to review provisional IANA >> registration of header field "Organization:" for use in email, >> per [2]. This registration request is part of an ISE RFC >> submission. >> >> Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use >> in netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears >> to be compatible with that usage. >> >> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 >> >> [2] >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 >> >> Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't >> raise any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the >> containing publication passes ISE review, I think it would be >> appropriate to update the current permanent registration of >> "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable >> protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. >> >> Does anyone here disagree? >> >> # g >> -- >> >> For ease of reference, the registration templates: >> >> From RFC5536 [1]: >> >> [[ >> Header field name: Organization >> Applicable protocol: netnews >> Status: standard >> Author/change controller: IETF >> Specification document(s): This document (Section 3.2.9) >> ]] >> >> and >> >> [[ >> 3.2.9. Organization >> >> The Organization header field is a short phrase >> identifying the >> poster's organization. >> >> organization = "Organization:" SP unstructured CRLF >> >> NOTE: There is no "s" in Organization. >> ]] >> >> >> From draft-davin-eesst [2]: >> >> [[ >> Header field name: Organization >> >> Applicable protocol: mail >> >> Status: provisional >> >> Author/Change controller: James R. Davin >> info@eesst.org >> http://www.eesst.org >> >> Specification document(s): draft-davin-eesst-04 >> >> Related information: >> The value of this header field identifies the >> organization or >> institution to which belongs the originator of the >> relevant >> message. >> ]] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> apps-discuss mailing list >> apps-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > > > > From nobody Wed Sep 2 02:48:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51B1B511E for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.431 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.431 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G5W8AKeWD-iF for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrus.dir.garr.it (cyrus.dir.garr.it [193.206.158.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A4AB1B5118 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 02:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: internal info suppressed Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 11:48:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Claudio Allocchio X-X-Sender: claudio@mac-allocchio3.garrtest.units.it To: Graham Klyne In-Reply-To: <55E6BD1C.1070000@ninebynine.org> Message-ID: References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> <6DFCAAECFA36F31BBE3C5570@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <55E6BD1C.1070000@ninebynine.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (OSX 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=garr.it; s=cyrus; t=1441187272; bh=oM+u69894+txvci524PQ17H3BGoEZBkI9T1vpP+/c9o=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=tZt6J1xxsMYL6Qm2lIus/clLwS8vHFm6hIb1sYy+VCaY92LTlviAVovu/bVLmk1L2 9+dR6zZP0q/1EHLbkz5RgSlALpggmS6Y+ODACwJkcCJiCVqnDdA3/J1ujOcQOiER0g 2vzmut0JsCRdXzwT6zDFO6nlzU5D/SEIAxP+TTiY= Archived-At: Cc: drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:48:22 -0000 On Wed, 2 Sep 2015, Graham Klyne wrote: > Related information: > The value of this header field identifies the organization or > institution to which belongs the originator of the relevant > message. > > Note: this field is quite distinct from mail headers > MTS.OrganizationName and MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames.value > used with X.400 mail. I suggest: Note: this field is quite distinct from the mail address fields MTS.OrganizationName and MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames used in X.400 mail. because they are not headers in X.400, too. > I think that is sufficient to flag the alternative and conveys the essence > of what you are say here. (But I note the MTS.* values you mention are not > recorded in the header registry.) Does this work for you? I think this is ok MTS.* values are not registered in the header registry because they are not translated into headers of internet mail; they only exists in the X.400 specification and are mapped into internet mail addresses in a different way (see MIXER). > > #g > -- > > [1] http://www.iana.org/assignments/message-headers/message-headers.xhtml > > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 > > > On 01/09/2015 10:44, John C Klensin wrote: >> Graham, >> >> This is not an objection, merely two comments: >> >> (1) If anyone is still paying attention to or using X.400, even >> as a discussion/terminology framework, the closer this header >> field gets to email, the more likelihood there is of confusion >> with the MTS.OrganizationName and >> MTS.OrganizationalUnitNames.value which are fairly highly >> structured rather than being the unstructured strings of >> Netnews/ RFC 5536. More specifically (and still relevant >> regardless of what one things of X.400 usage), there are >> possibly interactions with ITU X.660 and ISO/IEC 9834-1, and >> the registration authority hierarchy they establish. >> >> If we are going to do this, I think it would be sensible to >> include a comment in either the spec, the registry, or both that >> there is no expectation that the names themselves will be >> registered or harmonious with ITU X.660 / ISO/IEC 9834-1 >> registered strings (assuming that is actually the case). >> >> (2) In the future, it would save those of us who are inclined to >> respond to questions of this nature a bit of time if you >> included the exact name, and preferably a URL, for the registry >> itself in your note. >> >> best, >> john >> >> >> --On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 10:12 +0100 Graham Klyne >> wrote: >> >>> All, >>> >>> I've received a request to review provisional IANA >>> registration of header field "Organization:" for use in email, >>> per [2]. This registration request is part of an ISE RFC >>> submission. >>> >>> Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use >>> in netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears >>> to be compatible with that usage. >>> >>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 >>> >>> [2] >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 >>> >>> Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't >>> raise any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the >>> containing publication passes ISE review, I think it would be >>> appropriate to update the current permanent registration of >>> "Organization:" to also include email as an applicable >>> protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. >>> >>> Does anyone here disagree? >>> >>> # g >>> -- >>> >>> For ease of reference, the registration templates: >>> >>> From RFC5536 [1]: >>> >>> [[ >>> Header field name: Organization >>> Applicable protocol: netnews >>> Status: standard >>> Author/change controller: IETF >>> Specification document(s): This document (Section 3.2.9) >>> ]] >>> >>> and >>> >>> [[ >>> 3.2.9. Organization >>> >>> The Organization header field is a short phrase >>> identifying the >>> poster's organization. >>> >>> organization = "Organization:" SP unstructured CRLF >>> >>> NOTE: There is no "s" in Organization. >>> ]] >>> >>> >>> From draft-davin-eesst [2]: >>> >>> [[ >>> Header field name: Organization >>> >>> Applicable protocol: mail >>> >>> Status: provisional >>> >>> Author/Change controller: James R. Davin >>> info@eesst.org >>> http://www.eesst.org >>> >>> Specification document(s): draft-davin-eesst-04 >>> >>> Related information: >>> The value of this header field identifies the >>> organization or >>> institution to which belongs the originator of the >>> relevant >>> message. >>> ]] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> apps-discuss mailing list >>> apps-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claudio Allocchio G A R R Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it Senior Technical Officer tel: +39 040 3758523 Italian Academic and G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; fax: +39 040 3758565 Research Network P=garr; A=garr; C=it; http://www.cert.garr.it/pgp/garr-cert-pgp-keys From nobody Thu Sep 3 17:22:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3221B396F; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fEix3YolFyA; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6690A1B31E5; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150904002230.13104.97918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 17:22:30 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-11.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:22:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : The text/markdown Media Type Author : Sean Leonard Filename : draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-11.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2015-09-03 Abstract: This document registers the text/markdown media type for use with Markdown, a family of plain text formatting syntaxes that optionally can be converted to formal markup languages such as HTML. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Sep 3 17:22:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4442B1B2ECC; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yMuUvyXomaAU; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEB41B3884; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150904002237.16374.39617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 17:22:37 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:22:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Guidance on Markdown: Design Philosophies, Stability Strategies, and Select Registrations Author : Sean Leonard Filename : draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-06.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2015-09-03 Abstract: This document elaborates upon the text/markdown media type for use with Markdown, a family of plain text formatting syntaxes that optionally can be converted to formal markup languages such as HTML. Background information, local storage strategies, and additional syntax registrations are supplied. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Sep 3 17:26:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E301B2CC8 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Od-T-AEGe6OW for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0AF51A0061 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.123.151] (unknown [75.83.2.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D726509BD; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_55E04B89-37C1-482E-AE02-B9B53EDB05FE"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sean Leonard In-Reply-To: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:25:20 -0700 Message-Id: References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> To: Graham Klyne X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: "drafts-expert-review-comment@iana.org" , "apps-discuss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:26:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_55E04B89-37C1-482E-AE02-B9B53EDB05FE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sep 1, 2015, at 2:12 AM, Graham Klyne wrote: > All, >=20 > I've received a request to review provisional IANA registration of = header field "Organization:" for use in email, per [2]. This = registration request is part of an ISE RFC submission. >=20 > Currently, the header field is permanently registered for use in = netnews [1], and the new registration request [2] appears to be = compatible with that usage. >=20 > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.9 >=20 > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davin-eesst-04#section-8.2 >=20 > Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise = any red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication = passes ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current = permanent registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an = applicable protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. +1, no complaints, carry on. 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Kl8x0s4Uo6+aAavfKg0NTzjofVBrcBpym5sRnK4zDYVeIGIAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_55E04B89-37C1-482E-AE02-B9B53EDB05FE-- From nobody Thu Sep 3 19:01:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B421B3106 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:01:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.099 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7YcM0iNqmWY for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-HK2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-hk2apc01on0133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.124.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 545521A9031 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp; Received: from [133.2.210.64] (133.2.210.64) by TY1PR01MB0142.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.161.134.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.256.15; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:01:00 +0000 To: Graham Klyne , "apps-discuss@ietf.org" References: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J._D=c3=bcrst?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University Message-ID: <55E8FB58.5050101@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:00:56 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55E56C07.9060102@ninebynine.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [133.2.210.64] X-ClientProxiedBy: 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Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Question: update registration of Organization: header to apply to email? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 02:01:06 -0000 On 2015/09/01 18:12, Graham Klyne wrote: > Under the circumstances, assuming the new registration doesn't raise any > red flags (I can't see any), and assuming the containing publication > passes ISE review, I think it would be appropriate to update the current > permanent registration of "Organization:" to also include email as an > applicable protocol, and to add the new RFC as an additional reference. > > Does anyone here disagree? No disagreement, quite to the contrary. It may be completely obvious to all on the list, but just for the record: The Organization: header field is currently widely used in email. As a very simple example, Thunderbird has a field labeled "Organization" in the account setup dialog, and the value of that field is sent out in the Organization: header field of each email sent (including this one). Regards, Martin. From nobody Fri Sep 4 09:12:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455F21B3DD1; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IG2xUs-iOD13; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE7C1B2F32; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150904161205.30648.78527.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:12:05 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-07.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:12:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Guidance on Markdown: Design Philosophies, Stability Strategies, and Select Registrations Author : Sean Leonard Filename : draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-07.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2015-09-04 Abstract: This document elaborates upon the text/markdown media type for use with Markdown, a family of plain text formatting syntaxes that optionally can be converted to formal markup languages such as HTML. Background information, local storage strategies, and additional syntax registrations are supplied. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-appsawg-text-markdown-use-cases-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 4 15:04:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151921B3149; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4d2EJzVzO37c; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41CF1B313A; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:04:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150904220402.6193.32391.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 15:04:02 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-seantek-windows-image-01.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 22:04:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Windows Image Media Types Author : Sean Leonard Filename : draft-seantek-windows-image-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2015-09-04 Abstract: This document registers media types for certain image formats promulgated in Microsoft Windows, namely image/wmf, image/x-wmf, image/emf, image/x-emf, and image/bmp for use with Windows Metafile, Enhanced Metafile, and Windows Bitmap formats. Originally designed for Microsoft Windows 2.0 and 3.0, these image files are intended to be portable between applications and devices, and may contain both vector and raster graphics. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-seantek-windows-image/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seantek-windows-image-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-seantek-windows-image-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 4 15:15:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120481B3305 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:15:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nng6bPb21gJb for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A45DE1B3302 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smize.t-mobile.com (unknown [162.248.119.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D5DF509BE for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 18:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Leonard Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1056BB08-E466-4DB4-B64F-B98842DB33C8"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:14:42 -0700 References: <20150904220402.6193.32391.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: IETF Apps Discuss In-Reply-To: <20150904220402.6193.32391.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] Comments Requested: I-D Action: draft-seantek-windows-image-01.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 22:15:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1056BB08-E466-4DB4-B64F-B98842DB33C8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Apps-Discuss: I am continuing the work on draft-seantek-windows-image, which as of the = last conversation, will be submitted through Independent Stream. With that said, comments are welcome. Thanks. Sean On Sep 4, 2015, at 3:04 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working = Group Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Windows Image Media Types > Author : Sean Leonard > Filename : draft-seantek-windows-image-01.txt > Pages : 12 > Date : 2015-09-04 [SNIP]= --Apple-Mail=_1056BB08-E466-4DB4-B64F-B98842DB33C8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJ9jCCBK8w ggOXoAMCAQICEQDgI8sVEoNTia1hbnpUZ2shMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMG8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlNF MRQwEgYDVQQKEwtBZGRUcnVzdCBBQjEmMCQGA1UECxMdQWRkVHJ1c3QgRXh0ZXJuYWwgVFRQIE5l dHdvcmsxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUFkZFRydXN0IEV4dGVybmFsIENBIFJvb3QwHhcNMTQxMjIyMDAwMDAw WhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBmzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hl 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autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fAMiIRVuqUrF for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 02:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 320091B372E for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 02:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.123.115] (unknown [75.83.2.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6E2E509BB for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 05:28:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Leonard Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F22A77F7-6707-448F-A173-53605973EDA1"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 02:26:53 -0700 References: <20150905091554.10618.14127.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: IETF Apps Discuss Message-Id: <2817531E-4E5F-4078-8083-9ECF8FA2D2B7@seantek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] Comments Requested: New Version Notification for draft-seantek-text-nfo-01.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:28:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F22A77F7-6707-448F-A173-53605973EDA1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Apps-Discuss: I am continuing the work on draft-seantek-text-nfo, which as of the last = conversation (~December 2014), will be submitted through Independent = Stream. With that said, comments are welcome. Character set people should take = note that this document proposes a new charset "oem437". Thanks. Sean Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-seantek-text-nfo-01.txt > Date: September 5, 2015 at 2:15:54 AM PDT > To: "Sean Leonard" , "Sean Leonard" = A new version of I-D, draft-seantek-text-nfo-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Sean Leonard and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-seantek-text-nfo Revision: 01 Title: The text/nfo Media Type Document date: 2015-09-05 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 12 URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-seantek-text-nfo-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-seantek-text-nfo/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seantek-text-nfo-01 Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-seantek-text-nfo-01 Abstract: This document registers the text/nfo media type for use with release iNFOrmation. 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id B82441B4672; Sun, 6 Sep 2015 22:58:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150907055853.698.58762.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 22:58:53 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-http-problem-01.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 05:58:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working Group Working Group of the IETF. Title : Problem Details for HTTP APIs Authors : Mark Nottingham Erik Wilde Filename : draft-ietf-appsawg-http-problem-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2015-09-06 Abstract: This document defines a "problem detail" as a way to carry machine- readable details of errors in a HTTP response, to avoid the need to invent new error response formats for HTTP APIs. Note to Readers This draft should be discussed on the apps-discuss mailing list [1]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-http-problem/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-http-problem-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-appsawg-http-problem-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 11 02:10:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001E91B44A2 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:10:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.15 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pGg24UrzzUhT for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54C051B44A4 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:10:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t8B9AlZW012935 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:10:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from alma.local (p5DCCDB06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.204.219.6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nCBBt6yk7z1wQJ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:10:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55F29A94.1090001@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:10:44 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.4 (Macintosh/20150825) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Apps Discuss X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] RFC 3339 (ISO 8601 date/time): Regular expression? X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:10:53 -0000 Has anyone done the work to convert the format specified by RFC 3339 into a regular expression? (This is a bit more work than just translating the ABNF, because there are some textual, er, deliberations applied to that grammar.) Grüße, Carsten From nobody Sun Sep 13 05:25:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E49F1B2B79; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1RIlnRy_Uevd; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x236.google.com (mail-vk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B0C41ACD74; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vkfp126 with SMTP id p126so45464114vkf.3; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=E/ZcmViDYmU8SXG3SniDmwZpC65faUnxmgqhJRKwuHs=; b=abeLvxkvos0ObZZ++PkJoeLkVL2bd1yZM3hr3MAO80aV9Ifc4ttKlX+hwL+Jw8c+4B wtDd5t9m72ZRmSpw7zARKKHbRV+V+HYD9lWbKmOLyIeItLzkE/e51E0fEAUUqz1a5mr2 SsA5nAm2bpIfSoMulKQ1mK2ZKN1nXfCKk4cFd4fDuBf8/vgnTv8xN9Arh6htHK2GvqeT THEoa60QT/P9ZJkcwa1stNNd619J4/yQv37bKj/No9/JjCbnXZH1gsrAKcRtmQxzn7H8 f+VmIkSVU3mICgKIhPPAsQqBgyBdFiScI5bNIwq5Ns6u4huWoZFLWvfZCw3JdCQXwNXN Gwiw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.49.140 with SMTP id x134mr7894120vkx.10.1442147140198; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.31.88.196 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 05:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:25:40 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: DunfNyO-yKLMwxGp7CbnCoZpdlU Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Apps Discuss , dispatch@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] Nominations needed for IESG, IAB, and IAOC X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:25:43 -0000 The Nominating Committee (NomCom) has put out calls for nominations (see below) for the IESG, IAB, and IAOC positions it's tasked with filling. Alissa Cooper and Barry Leiba are the two ART ADs whose terms end and whose positions need to be filled. Both are planning to stand for another term. Even if you think the current ADs are doing a good job, we encourage you to make nominations if you know of folks who are willing to serve or if you're willing to serve yourself. All three of us are available to chat about the AD role or to put you in touch with other current or former ADs, IAB members, or IAOC members if you're thinking about standing for one of the open positions. The NomCom will also need your input to its deliberations, so when the time comes and they call for comments, please provide your feedback. Ben, Barry, and Alissa Links: Nominations: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/nominate/ Desired expertise for ADs: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/requirements/ Call for nominations (copied below): http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg14498.html --------------------------------------------- From: NomCom Chair 2015 To: "IETF Announcement List" Subject: NomCom 2015: Call for nominations Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 03:13:13 -0700 Cc: ietf@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org, nomcom15@ietf.org The 2015-16 Nominating Committee (Nomcom) is seeking nominations from now until October 8, 2015. The open positions being considered by this year's Nomcom can be found at the end of this email and also on this year's Nomcom website: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/ Nominations may be made by selecting the Nominate link at the top of the Nomcom 2015 home page, or by visiting the following URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/nominate/ {Note that nominations made using the web tool require an ietf.org datatracker account. You can create a datatracker ietf.org account if you don't have one already by visiting the following URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/accounts/create/ } If you are unable to use the web form, nominations may instead be made by email to nomcom15@ietf.org. If using email, please include the word "Nominate" in the Subject and indicate in the email who is being nominated, their email address (to confirm acceptance of the nomination), and the position for which you are making the nomination. If you are nominating someone other than yourself, please tell us if we may tell the nominee that you were the one who made the nomination. If you wish to nominate someone via email for more than one position, please use separate emails to do so. Self-nomination is welcome! NomCom 2015-16 will follow the policy for "Open Disclosure of Willing Nominees" described in BCP 10/RFC 7437. As stated in RFC 7437: "The list of nominees willing to be considered for positions under review in the current Nomcom cycle is not confidential". Willing nominees for each position will be listed in a publicly accessible way - anyone with a datatracker account may access the lists. Additionally, the nomination form asks if we may share your own name with the nominee. In all other ways, the confidentiality requirements of BCP10 remain in effect. All feedback and all Nomcom deliberations will remain confidential and will not be disclosed. There is a field on the form you can mark in order to allow the Nomcom to tell the nominee that you were the one who made the nomination. This is a new thing this year, and it defaults to =C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=C5=93no=C3=A2=E2=82=AC - we won=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2t tell. After the nomination cycle, we will e= valuate the result of this and recommend whether the next Nomcom should do something different. In order to ensure time to collect sufficient community feedback about each of the willing nominees, nominations must be received by the Nomcom on or before October 8, 2015. Please submit your nominations as early as possible for the sake of your nominees. Note that nominations should not wait for management permission, as it is easier to decline the nomination than put one in late. We have set the questionnaire submission deadline for October 15, 2015. The Nomcom appoints individuals to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2016 IETF meeting, and thus the positions for which this Nomcom is responsible, follows: IAB: * Mary Barnes * Joe Hildebrand * Ted Hardie * Erik Nordmark * Brian Trammell * Mark Blanchet IESG: - Alissa Cooper, ART - Barry Leiba, ART - Brian Haberman, Internet (*) - Benoit Claise, O&M - Alia Atlas, Routing - Kathleen Moriarty, Security - Martin Stiemerling, Transport (*) *- have indicated that they do not intend to accept a renomination. This information is always up to date on https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/ Please be resourceful in identifying possible candidates for these positions, as developing our talent is a very crucial requirement for the IETF, and also, please consider accepting a nomination. You'll find extensive information about specific positions, developed by the IAB, IESG, and IAOC, under individual tabs at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/requirements/ In addition to nominations, the Nomcom seeks community input on the positions themselves. We need and welcome the community's views and input on the jobs within each organization. If you have ideas on the positions' responsibilities (more, less, different), please let us know. Please send suggestions and feedback about this to nomcom15@ietf.org. Thank you for your help in identifying qualified nominees! Harald Alvestrand Nomcom Chair 2015-16 nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org, hta+nomcom@alvestrand.no --------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Sep 15 13:40:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3FBF1AD09A for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id reIw75MUjnk6 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7CFC1AD09B for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 31-34-168.wireless.csail.mit.edu (unknown [128.31.34.168]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E73D7509BB; Tue, 15 Sep 2015 16:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Mark Nottingham Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 16:40:45 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: To: Apps Discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren Subject: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:40:53 -0000 Version under review: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 ## General comments There hasn=E2=80=99t been =E2=80=93 to this point =E2=80=93 a document = that describes how the `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this = is a good document. We are glad to see that the document specifies how = to convert between file URIs and OS-dependent system filepaths. ### Limitations Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues = that need to be resolved for interoperability: 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL = standard](https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the = APPSAWG to consider addressing these. Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van = Kesteren (@annevk) of the WHATWG. The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the = question of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others = like Anne as necessary). -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Sun Sep 20 16:06:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A9D1B2A36 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.872 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKeYUcSRJBqP for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7DF81B2A2A for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgez77 with SMTP id z77so77792396qge.1 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ja9JWGKTIUa8PT3oHpUDslg94gOb8kxSRAvrXHv5iSA=; b=FsT2Y5BOguvZQ2krIoxpHPdcsEFIHZuicMfAX2Jks6jYOEqNbmKAEOyLvt87PN4bmv s6RmLH/wYF07nKSMenBo5a3lGgYeOazanOQUcu3siv4nXcnhSQ2jh5FyWNmSS9AXnOrK Q7MjJ4JtWrNpVNF/2uD7yPvQCE7syr6ieEmtFYjnowHF9aktfI3hc19c9BJdDUvP+4i6 KqnyZPmi3wB4/KhRhpRuGbNBs549t7VdKvn4+DkbFKvNVSDFisodOIWpPgwtcP1beOmO +5psGqD+8u8oiXEmDhxv/kprvFG1suIiBtandpZbODzEqXU3be0V8vmoHk4LTcAOETM4 0Zbw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.87.97 with SMTP id q88mr18876429qgd.86.1442790411052; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Sender: phluid61@gmail.com Received: by 10.55.45.67 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:06:51 +1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Dm6gSf_bpCoJLpUsU5lM4fNAEak Message-ID: From: Matthew Kerwin To: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11466306efad18052035d18a Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:06:54 -0000 --001a11466306efad18052035d18a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty interoperable way. I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another tech survey might be in order. Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading "file://.." webfonts? To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm happy to leave it as it is. Cheers [1] https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: > > > Version under review: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 > > ## General comments > > There hasn=E2=80=99t been =E2=80=93 to this point =E2=80=93 a document th= at describes how the > `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. We a= re > glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file URIs > and OS-dependent system filepaths. > > ### Limitations > > Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues > that need to be resolved for interoperability: > > 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? > 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into > [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL standard]( > https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? > > This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the > APPSAWG to consider addressing these. > > Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kesteren > (@annevk) of the WHATWG. > > The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the question > of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne as > necessary). > > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ > > > > > --=20 Matthew Kerwin http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ --001a11466306efad18052035d18a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discuss= ion when you first linked to it, and assumed the outcome would be something= to this effect.

To be honest, I'm sti= ll not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought to work on the web; = my original goal was just to specify an standard syntax, and describe how t= o convert to/from file paths in a pretty interoperable way.
<= br>
I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really be= long on the web.

To that end we could add = something to say that each file URI has its own implicit, globally unique o= rigin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address the origin model, but might= go against the various implementations. Another tech survey might be in or= der.

Would anyone here be particularly ups= et if browsers stopped loading "file://.." webfonts?

To address the second point, I also don't know how= to fit it into 'fetch.' We've said, "you probably ought t= o let people read() file URIs" and W3 has said, "it's an exer= cise for the reader." I don't know what the right way forward is o= n that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm happy to le= ave it as it is.

Cheers

=
[1]=C2=A0https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/iss= ues/59#issuecomment-131493548

On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mno= t.net> wrote:
<https= ://github.com/w3ctag/wiki/wiki/fileUrl>

Version under review:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-= appsawg-file-scheme-03

## General comments

There hasn=E2=80=99t been =E2=80=93 to this point =E2=80=93 a document that= describes how the `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a go= od document. We are glad to see that the document specifies how to convert = between file URIs and OS-dependent system filepaths.

### Limitations

Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues that= need to be resolved for interoperability:

1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model?
2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [U= RL standard](https://url.spec.whatwg.org)?

This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the APP= SAWG to consider addressing these.

Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kesteren (= @annevk) of the WHATWG.

The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the question o= f what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne as ne= cessary).

--
Mark Nottingham=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.mnot.net/







--
=C2=A0 Matthew Kerwin
=C2=A0 http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/
--001a11466306efad18052035d18a-- From nobody Mon Sep 21 02:15:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033BA1A883C for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 02:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q873VyA-BsnJ for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 02:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0751.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::751]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29DE91A877B for ; 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"Apps Discuss" Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 12:06 AM Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty interoperable way. I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. Matthew Me too. I am mindful of RFC3986, " A resource is not necessarily accessible via the Internet; " I cannot even get file: to work with File Sharing over NetBIOS but that does not stop me from using file: every day and see the I-D as a useful step foward with its current scope so my resolution would be to add an explicit statement thereof although you could argue that the I-D already does that (" A file URI can only be dereferenced or translated to a local file path if it is local. ") Tom Petch To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another tech survey might be in order. Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading "file://.." webfonts? To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm happy to leave it as it is. Cheers [1] https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: > > > Version under review: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 > > ## General comments > > There hasn’t been – to this point – a document that describes how the > `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. We are > glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file URIs > and OS-dependent system filepaths. > > ### Limitations > > Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues > that need to be resolved for interoperability: > > 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? > 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into > [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL standard]( > https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? > > This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the > APPSAWG to consider addressing these. > > Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kesteren > (@annevk) of the WHATWG. > > The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the question > of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne as > necessary). > > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ > > > > > -- Matthew Kerwin http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > From nobody Mon Sep 21 09:31:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E59E1A9115 for ; 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Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: <011901d0f48a$d9654020$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: Matthew Kerwin , IETF Apps Discuss References: <20150723124530.2236.14488.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:29:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [31.54.179.163] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB3PR08CA0004.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (25.161.51.142) To AMSPR07MB050.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.81.24) X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; AMSPR07MB050; 2:znklQMt/gsPPmL1wWmfci+ZqwV2e47fSEY1H6aX015JPqXIJiNy5czMajrclhkant4RkuNKgZHzYE4pfhulQQpwZFK+JfVYFd099xD5osk1WK5P/cadfBm856ep8RuPy11IMvxcuYw6HdQqRohwSqWvJDCPrXas0qYdB+iCHwEI=; 3:fyiHIJobpYhhN47c9J6C/Bmvg+2HsQ+nAhVD5pNtNv+uZtqb95N+Wf1L+QHVDIicwdDUGmMZcR6dSmXGu+JifQu+RZkFz0YtwljrUrDOY70S3NkSKKNOjmYbIQ8iBF/or1dEteZ0J7QY4uKCqHrkdQ==; 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AMSPR07MB050; 5:A9aeSCyJcGYdV3Lxj1FqvlJ4SPJjStAeZrI6fFdAcwsr0T103Xf/UuNBa1jzYE32bkBzmk9o/PUzdOA6P9Eun7GzpwovPH/MfV0xf9cxlg7t6c6sE38cCeP6SLbvkiOPr/kLgGr1/1jFalm0NijlNA==; 24:6QBJyeSL+JR5xWL5qYmkgtoXrMWa6RYrPgYTLt3zJz87wwirJdYc59pUrx23znFFoI97pQpD69FU1Yj0egSwjOkwVsNwdrV+t+96ywqCtfk=; 20:Qq1Gx7Zv4ioNk9oNYZEn557Uj5x7QlfMp4JE+eEcac/NuhCQo8LmChw9Axkf+Kdmb5PobO06zMkVMQYHd/WdXA== SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2015 16:30:37.1157 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AMSPR07MB050 Archived-At: Cc: Julian Reschke Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:30:59 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Kerwin" To: "IETF Apps Discuss" Cc: "Julian Reschke" Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:36 PM > Hi folks, > > I've published a new version of the file: URI draft. I think it addresses > most of the comments received over the course of the exercise. > > If we could get some reviews at this stage it'd be greatly appreciated. I'd > like to think we're on the way towards WGLC; so if you have any issues, now > would be a great time to raise them. Matthew "Also see Appendix C.2 for a discussion on translating non-local file URIs to and from UNC stings." Yup, I have been stung by UNCs many times:-) "when [RFC1738] was made obsolete ..." Well, the RFC Index has it 'Proposed Standard' even if it also lists two RFC as obsoleting it! 'replaced' might be better Tom Petch , but that draft expired in 2005. It enumerated concerns > > Cheers > > On 23 July 2015 at 22:45, wrote: > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the ART Area General Applications Working > > Group Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : The file URI Scheme > > Author : Matthew Kerwin > > Filename : draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03.txt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2015-07-23 > > > > Abstract: > > This document specifies the "file" Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) > > scheme, obsoleting the definition in RFC 1738. > > > > It attempts to define a common core which is intended to interoperate > > across the broad spectrum of existing implementations, while at the > > same time documenting other current practices. > > > > *Note to Readers (To be removed by the RFC Editor)* > > > > This draft should be discussed on the IETF Applications Area Working > > Group discussion list . > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme/ > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > apps-discuss mailing list > > apps-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > > > > > > -- > Matthew Kerwin > http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > From nobody Tue Sep 22 10:36:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2161A92AB for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] VNC Scheme - Cross Post to Uri-Review X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:36:08 -0000 Hi all, I previously posted a proposed VNC URI scheme to this list: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-warden-appsawg-vnc-scheme-04.txt On the advice of the area director, we plan to pursue publication as an ind= ependent submission. As part of that process, I have posted a request for c= omments to the uri-review list at: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/uri-review=20 Anyone interested in further review should follow up there.=20 Regards, David Warden Software Development Principal Engineer Dell | Enterprise Solutions Group=20 From nobody Tue Sep 22 17:21:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41D81B3013 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:21:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9C-DJh8pT4FX for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 408531B3011 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.21] (unknown [120.149.147.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6830622E25F; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:21:37 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4FD05B0F-A7EF-4EA9-B83B-13291F25473C@mnot.net> References: To: Matthew Kerwin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 00:21:52 -0000 > On 21 Sep 2015, at 9:06 am, Matthew Kerwin = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first = linked to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. >=20 > To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs = ought to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an = standard syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a = pretty interoperable way. >=20 > I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. >=20 > To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its = own implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would = address the origin model, but might go against the various = implementations. Another tech survey might be in order. >=20 > Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading = "file://.." webfonts? I suspect it'd be better to ask over on the W3C WebAppSec mailing list; = it has more attention from browser security teams, etc. > To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into = 'fetch.' We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" = and W3 has said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what = the right way forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to = be honest I'm happy to leave it as it is. To be clear -- Fetch is *not* a W3C specification, at least yet; it's in = WHATWG. Ideally someone would step forward to help Anne fill out that = section , but at the least, = it'd be good to go through the exercise of making sure that there isn't = a blatant conflict between what Fetch needs to do there and this spec. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > [1] = https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 >=20 > On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: > >=20 > Version under review: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 >=20 > ## General comments >=20 > There hasn=E2=80=99t been =E2=80=93 to this point =E2=80=93 a document = that describes how the `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this = is a good document. We are glad to see that the document specifies how = to convert between file URIs and OS-dependent system filepaths. >=20 > ### Limitations >=20 > Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues = that need to be resolved for interoperability: >=20 > 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? > 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into > [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL = standard](https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? >=20 > This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage = the APPSAWG to consider addressing these. >=20 > Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van = Kesteren (@annevk) of the WHATWG. >=20 > The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the = question of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others = like Anne as necessary). >=20 > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Matthew Kerwin > http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Wed Sep 23 02:10:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881081AC3B7 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:10:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESx0xRLt6-cJ for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A863B1AC3B2 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.mail.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.207]) by relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zeg3z-0002E3-rZ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:10:07 +0100 Received: from gklyne38.plus.com ([81.174.129.24] helo=conina.atuin.ninebynine.org) by smtp5.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zeg3z-0000qA-Hd; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:10:07 +0100 Message-ID: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:10:05 +0100 From: Graham Klyne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Kerwin , Mark Nottingham References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 09:10:18 -0000 I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well established use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate new/upcoming work. If taking this newer work into account will delay publication of the current draft then I would suggest to defer its consideration for a future revision or a separate additional document. I tend to agree that file: URIs don't really belong on the wide web. Their main value, in my experience, is that they provide a way to unify local file access with wider web access, often used in a base URI against which relative references can be resolved. In my experience, the main value for using file: URIs in browsers is for local testing of web pages and apps. #g -- On 21/09/2015 00:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: > Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked > to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. > > To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought > to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard > syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty > interoperable way. > > I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. > > To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own > implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address > the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another > tech survey might be in order. > > Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading > "file://.." webfonts? > > To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' > We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has > said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way > forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm > happy to leave it as it is. > > Cheers > > [1] https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 > > On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: > >> >> >> Version under review: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 >> >> ## General comments >> >> There hasn’t been – to this point – a document that describes how the >> `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. We are >> glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file URIs >> and OS-dependent system filepaths. >> >> ### Limitations >> >> Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues >> that need to be resolved for interoperability: >> >> 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? >> 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into >> [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL standard]( >> https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? >> >> This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the >> APPSAWG to consider addressing these. >> >> Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kesteren >> (@annevk) of the WHATWG. >> >> The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the question >> of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne as >> necessary). >> >> -- >> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > From nobody Wed Sep 23 08:14:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBBD1A6FCF for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvqtzdCyLqxO for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x229.google.com (mail-qg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45EE51A6FCA for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgev79 with SMTP id v79so21718469qge.0 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=yRG9FM6XwdWE65IIGzdmM31u/4fTC3V6LA0hzwJ2jRQ=; b=0grVohh3wZHyw9gGVkZRhMKZYAUIUTzt8wQN1R8tW90RRh5KQ2WdyzdSdTUfH1pkHN NKAxv9OQPw1cpBh9azhcPGcwiWbt0du4K+XAGulU799EDJSe7arHLxjP5lup5J9MraiU KhFfLVf0i9f55UElfjMNE6iRX3xS0qOKSjaVVVd+8I5vW7vkMOaQ2+hOys6gXDm+48sU 0OtLh7jQXQlaSwYWxY+JCZddYZz6jDCbzVilGAJt2Mi0EpPN/hEwFrYyElK/vlvU0AiP 4wiY/mf+BwaJM44KVy1nXo1B77wkb8S0X3rnBHnisloRgewpSXVwepwWcOdVMQeLCDTX oZVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.104.51 with SMTP id z48mr36912332qge.21.1443021269452; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.55.198.11 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:14:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Graham Klyne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f34c2b4eb005206b92d6 Archived-At: Cc: Apps Discuss , Mark Nottingham , Anne van Kesteren Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:14:46 -0000 --001a1134f34c2b4eb005206b92d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Graham Klyne wrote: > I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well > established use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate new/upcoming > work. If taking this newer work into account will delay publication of the > current draft then I would suggest to defer its consideration for a future > revision or a separate additional document. > +1; I'd prefer to see this move forward. Its delivery milestone was July. -MSK --001a1134f34c2b4eb005206b92d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Graham Klyne <gk@ninebyn= ine.org> wrote:
I think it is more important to = get a document out that describes well established use of file: URIs than i= t is to also incorporate new/upcoming work.=C2=A0 If taking this newer work= into account will delay publication of the current draft then I would sugg= est to defer its consideration for a future revision or a separate addition= al document.

+1; I'd prefer to see = this move forward.=C2=A0 Its delivery milestone was July.
-MSK
--001a1134f34c2b4eb005206b92d6-- From nobody Wed Sep 23 08:43:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342001A802A; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pWRMNz7BlHfd; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [217.34.220.150]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818EB1A7014; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1443022975; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=P3RAhm/CvYngj93PxaP8ynFXOQIX4eNUnne+pvy+jMg=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=XT4cU0C+/tokLUkVxYwiencvDsBZv22d+PBRvF2uBx5P/gf2Kbc10NRtucB9g4QwOKbGGD tropQMU4i4CcwHaxfdMXSkPISJCD77pa2BVY7ng/Ng0SMSKv+MCjSx2qDrYyVcAAhq80cQ V9BQ+Ad8t+hbmJ6GjWeRu49PHmwKcCY=; Received: from [172.20.1.215] (dhcp-215.isode.net [172.20.1.215]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:42:55 +0100 Message-ID: <5602C874.1080002@isode.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:42:44 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 To: IETF Apps Discuss , draft-blanchet-ccsds-urn.all@ietf.org References: <20150911142142.19321.82949.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55F2E9FF.1050403@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <55F2E9FF.1050403@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: The IESG Subject: [apps-discuss] AppsDir review of draft-blanchet-ccsds-urn-00.txt X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:42:59 -0000 I have been selected as the Applications Area Directorate reviewer for=20 this draft (for background on appsdir, please see =E2=80=8B=20 http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDirectorate ).= =20 Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments=20 you may receive. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd=20 or AD before posting a new version of the draft. Document: draft-blanchet-ccsds-urn-00.txt Title: A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for the Consultative=20 Committee for Space Data Systems (CCSDS) Reviewer: Alexey Melnikov Review Date: 2015-09-23 IETF Last Call Date: 2015-10-09 IESG Telechat Date: 2015-10-15 Summary: Ready for publication as an Informational RFC (with a nit) I validates syntax against the URN spec and verified that the document=20 satisfies registration requirements. All looks good to me. Major Issues: None Minor Issues: None Nits: References [3] and [4] are the same. Was this intentional? It would be=20 less confusing if authors replace [4] with [3]. From nobody Wed Sep 23 16:19:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C4F1B32D7 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U261gbceuE1M for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0130.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6842B1B32DC for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:19:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Fpbo8vqxngDkoTHF14Ypk+037GmBmG901LZEqxQbyn4=; b=dhWS+bhS20Y/P6Cs48WgkFXdL8iDieitwKwHsEXEiuIbYy48/41WTGH7tI7Y3q28u+GCAc1mKU8X6+SSzbSNKhRtzrRMVAM1z/8SFWd10yi3QPImP4tjsTSoKZ+ofZpNWKRcm29xnutzcG/FZIqrFsVYkIV2Hk+UUHi6eRkzy+s= Received: from BY2PR03MB412.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.141.25) by BY2PR03MB411.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.141.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.274.16; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:19:43 +0000 Received: from BY2PR03MB412.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.141.25]) by BY2PR03MB412.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.141.25]) with mapi id 15.01.0274.009; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:19:42 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: Graham Klyne , Matthew Kerwin , Mark Nottingham Thread-Topic: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 Thread-Index: AQHQ9d+wXtNDLjqtJ0m0SJcAcJmNDp5KwMpg Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:19:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> In-Reply-To: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=dthaler@microsoft.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR03MB411; H:BY2PR03MB412.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Sep 2015 23:19:42.4548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR03MB411 Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:19:46 -0000 +1 to what Graham said. Dave -----Original Message----- From: apps-discuss [mailto:apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Grah= am Klyne Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:10 AM To: Matthew Kerwin ; Mark Nottingham Cc: Anne van Kesteren ; Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-sch= eme-03 I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well esta= blished use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate new/upcoming work.= =20 If taking this newer work into account will delay publication of the curr= ent draft then I would suggest to defer its consideration for a future revi= sion or a separate additional document. I tend to agree that file: URIs don't really belong on the wide web. Their= main value, in my experience, is that they provide a way to unify local fi= le access with wider web access, often used in a base URI against which rel= ative references can be resolved. In my experience, the main value for usi= ng file:=20 URIs in browsers is for local testing of web pages and apps. #g -- On 21/09/2015 00:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: > Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linke= d > to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. > > To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs oug= ht > to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard > syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty > interoperable way. > > I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. > > To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own > implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would addres= s > the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Anoth= er > tech survey might be in order. > > Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading > "file://.." webfonts? > > To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.= ' > We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 ha= s > said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way > forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm > happy to leave it as it is. > > Cheers > > [1] https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-1314935= 48 > > On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: > >> >> >> Version under review: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 >> >> ## General comments >> >> There hasn't been - to this point - a document that describes how the >> `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. We = are >> glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file URIs >> and OS-dependent system filepaths. >> >> ### Limitations >> >> Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues >> that need to be resolved for interoperability: >> >> 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? >> 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into >> [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL standard]( >> https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? >> >> This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the >> APPSAWG to consider addressing these. >> >> Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kestere= n >> (@annevk) of the WHATWG. >> >> The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the questio= n >> of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne a= s >> necessary). >> >> -- >> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > _______________________________________________ apps-discuss mailing list apps-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From nobody Wed Sep 23 16:22:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414811B32E7 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:22:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zLQ2w-W3yjRS for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06F111B32D7 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.25] (unknown [120.149.147.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A448722E1F4; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 19:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:22:32 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> To: Graham Klyne X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:22:51 -0000 I don't think I disagree on the Fetch integration part, but not = documenting the origin of file -- thereby leaving potentially HUGE = security issues intact -- seems unwise. At the very least, I'd expect a = "there be dragons" security consideration (and that's at the *very* = least). We can say "it shouldn't be on the Web" as much as we like, but the = reality is that it's implemented in all browsers.=20 > On 23 Sep 2015, at 7:10 pm, Graham Klyne wrote: >=20 > I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well = established use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate = new/upcoming work. If taking this newer work into account will delay = publication of the current draft then I would suggest to defer its = consideration for a future revision or a separate additional document. >=20 > I tend to agree that file: URIs don't really belong on the wide web. = Their main value, in my experience, is that they provide a way to unify = local file access with wider web access, often used in a base URI = against which relative references can be resolved. In my experience, = the main value for using file: URIs in browsers is for local testing of = web pages and apps. >=20 > #g > -- >=20 > On 21/09/2015 00:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: >> Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first = linked >> to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. >>=20 >> To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs = ought >> to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard >> syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty >> interoperable way. >>=20 >> I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. >>=20 >> To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its = own >> implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would = address >> the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. = Another >> tech survey might be in order. >>=20 >> Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading >> "file://.." webfonts? >>=20 >> To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into = 'fetch.' >> We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and = W3 has >> said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right = way >> forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest = I'm >> happy to leave it as it is. >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> [1] = https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 >>=20 >> On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Version under review: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 >>>=20 >>> ## General comments >>>=20 >>> There hasn=92t been =96 to this point =96 a document that describes = how the >>> `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. = We are >>> glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file = URIs >>> and OS-dependent system filepaths. >>>=20 >>> ### Limitations >>>=20 >>> Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few = issues >>> that need to be resolved for interoperability: >>>=20 >>> 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? >>> 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into >>> [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL = standard]( >>> https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? >>>=20 >>> This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage = the >>> APPSAWG to consider addressing these. >>>=20 >>> Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van = Kesteren >>> (@annevk) of the WHATWG. >>>=20 >>> The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the = question >>> of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like = Anne as >>> necessary). >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> apps-discuss mailing list >> apps-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Wed Sep 23 16:26:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CDB1B32F2 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sn707ZCwhblW for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 978D61B32F1 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.149] (104-60-96-29.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [104.60.96.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t8NNQCAZ029296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:13 -0700 References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> To: Graham Klyne , Matthew Kerwin , Mark Nottingham From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking Message-ID: <5603350E.9020904@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:06 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 23:26:15 -0000 On 9/23/2015 2:10 AM, Graham Klyne wrote: > I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well > established use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate > new/upcoming work. Right. For work that has well-established practice, a well-established process pattern is to ship a document recording that practice and soon as possible and /then/ go work on the spiffy new stuff. So this needn't be treated as "either vs. or", but "rather now and then later". d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Thu Sep 24 00:02:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8186B1B3216 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x2ZYuD5ayQXz for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 00:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from APC01-PU1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-pu1apc01on0097.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.126.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 437DE1B3213 for ; 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TY1PR01MB0144; 5:KmWADUv1wc4DPOp1Xhhj7CDkCynE2JQ2Wao2IInQrG03uZJvcA3OWO2IUq/QGFB2eW+BBbkSCuQmla89DrUscm8eE06P5mjbtrcJjXvqWh9iuPE4kigo0f2KGbHMJJmT4b1Mer5HsjGtXfYJhkLl9Q==; 24:T4foU4aZFryVzvjfYB/z5nSlTsPlxHOvc5hUPu6Sck11MKgFpqMVSOcQzRj/IIYk1evgWzAseg5r9A54dGiwQJcpqQJ6LvnB5pCJgOyO5os=; 20:OI+j9h4757cD0uLIPPHA+EjZHyoWsmdSKP/0BCMBBqKS6tabF38JMoUB0hEOA2pz2VpoQ8HOgIyn5LYyuRCjzw== SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: it.aoyama.ac.jp X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2015 07:02:37.8389 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: TY1PR01MB0144 Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 07:02:44 -0000 On 2015/09/21 08:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: > Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked > to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. > > To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought > to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard > syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty > interoperable way. > > I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. I think "belong to the Web" is more like a philosophical question. Just write about the actual practical limitations, and readers will get what that means. > To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own > implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address > the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another > tech survey might be in order. It would be the safest solution, but also the most restrictive. In particular, current browsers allow to save a Web page locally. Last time I checked, at least Firefox did that by creating a local file that references other local files. This means that all these have "file:" addresses. > Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading > "file://.." webfonts? It would be a pity if in a scenario such as the above, webfonts couldn't be used anymore. Given that in theory, webfonts should be safe (I know that if there are implementation bugs, such bugs can be exploited badly, but that shouldn't affect the design, because otherwise, we would have to prohibit everything.), I don't see why their use (at least from another file: URI) should be prohibited. > To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' > We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has > said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way > forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm > happy to leave it as it is. I agree with Graham and others that this should be deferred until more information is available. Of course, if this information is available soon, it could be integrated. I agree with Mark and others that we need some serious text in the Security Section. Regards, Martin. From nobody Thu Sep 24 02:26:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9471B37FF for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 02:26:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3ygneGH9egrE for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 02:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea01-db3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db3on0742.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe04::742]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B421D1B38BA for ; 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DB3PR07MB060; 5:5D8wZINm92mk3NICTjrsUhDnjfx4AVg/e1JDKVlQNnETKCLizDrDgv2XipcKRcNnPuSiv2cJ02TB3Y9FXsr0Q2AXlXEMhbVQO1C5dhSwYF+0NWo6ktzF04DUnd8gaDdqNHRAuaV09VhFM7aHbTu60Q==; 24:Zoix2ul0pRgsZo2gC08rRAsBqo5NQ1ppZOq37xJ9pYiaphi8UMBYa8/rpgL5vmJ4EfUJ53P7I/D2BykFhvV8vUBEIVd3dPF4DQtHifPeRyg=; 20:FYD6iVb1/T2+Wcyu0xLqgusXE2X9UInTvTcFYQYzAV8TOnST98uq282ssFz4/m7eWTGmiRN+lv599ZvWs2Ycww== SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2015 09:25:07.4477 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB3PR07MB060 Archived-At: Cc: Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:26:46 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin J. Dürst" To: "Matthew Kerwin" ; "Mark Nottingham" Cc: "Anne van Kesteren" ; "Apps Discuss" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 8:02 AM > On 2015/09/21 08:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: > > Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked > > to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. > > > > To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought > > to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard > > syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty > > interoperable way. > > > > I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. > > I think "belong to the Web" is more like a philosophical question. Just > write about the actual practical limitations, and readers will get what > that means. > > > To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own > > implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address > > the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another > > tech survey might be in order. > > It would be the safest solution, but also the most restrictive. In > particular, current browsers allow to save a Web page locally. Last time > I checked, at least Firefox did that by creating a local file that > references other local files. This means that all these have "file:" > addresses. Martin I am confused by this. I use IE and when I save a web page, one option is to create an .html file with the css, script, jpeg etc in a separate folder but the link from the former to the latter is of the form or and whether or not the links are relative or absolute, I never see IE using file: just (sometimes) ftp: or http: Tom Petch > > Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading > > "file://.." webfonts? > > It would be a pity if in a scenario such as the above, webfonts couldn't > be used anymore. Given that in theory, webfonts should be safe (I know > that if there are implementation bugs, such bugs can be exploited badly, > but that shouldn't affect the design, because otherwise, we would have > to prohibit everything.), I don't see why their use (at least from > another file: URI) should be prohibited. > > > To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' > > We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has > > said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way > > forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm > > happy to leave it as it is. > > I agree with Graham and others that this should be deferred until more > information is available. Of course, if this information is available > soon, it could be integrated. > > I agree with Mark and others that we need some serious text in the > Security Section. > > Regards, Martin. > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss From nobody Thu Sep 24 04:54:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBAB11A909F for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 04:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFvV-5J8vk3A for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 04:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.162]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F831A909B for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 04:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp4.mail.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.207]) by relay14.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf56u-0007oP-jj; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 12:54:48 +0100 Received: from oerc-dynamic-222.oerc.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.194.222]) by smtp4.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf56u-0006HC-D9; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 12:54:48 +0100 Message-ID: <5603E486.8080903@ninebynine.org> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 12:54:46 +0100 From: Graham Klyne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 11:54:54 -0000 I agree that "shouldn't be on the web" is no excuse for not mentioning known security issues. I have no argument that there should be mention of origin issues. My own experience of using file has been (IIRC) that file:// references are a distinct origin from HTTP sites and others, so that any attempt to access a web resource via a page loaded locally runs in to an access violation. Maybe I misremember, or maybe things have changed since I did any serious browser app coding. #g -- On 24/09/2015 00:22, Mark Nottingham wrote: > I don't think I disagree on the Fetch integration part, but not documenting the origin of file -- thereby leaving potentially HUGE security issues intact -- seems unwise. At the very least, I'd expect a "there be dragons" security consideration (and that's at the *very* least). > > We can say "it shouldn't be on the Web" as much as we like, but the reality is that it's implemented in all browsers. > > >> On 23 Sep 2015, at 7:10 pm, Graham Klyne wrote: >> >> I think it is more important to get a document out that describes well established use of file: URIs than it is to also incorporate new/upcoming work. If taking this newer work into account will delay publication of the current draft then I would suggest to defer its consideration for a future revision or a separate additional document. >> >> I tend to agree that file: URIs don't really belong on the wide web. Their main value, in my experience, is that they provide a way to unify local file access with wider web access, often used in a base URI against which relative references can be resolved. In my experience, the main value for using file: URIs in browsers is for local testing of web pages and apps. >> >> #g >> -- >> >> On 21/09/2015 00:06, Matthew Kerwin wrote: >>> Thanks for this Mark. I had a look at the discussion when you first linked >>> to it, and assumed the outcome would be something to this effect. >>> >>> To be honest, I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly how file URIs ought >>> to work on the web; my original goal was just to specify an standard >>> syntax, and describe how to convert to/from file paths in a pretty >>> interoperable way. >>> >>> I'm tempted to say that file URIs don't really belong on the web. >>> >>> To that end we could add something to say that each file URI has its own >>> implicit, globally unique origin, as Anne suggested[1]. That would address >>> the origin model, but might go against the various implementations. Another >>> tech survey might be in order. >>> >>> Would anyone here be particularly upset if browsers stopped loading >>> "file://.." webfonts? >>> >>> To address the second point, I also don't know how to fit it into 'fetch.' >>> We've said, "you probably ought to let people read() file URIs" and W3 has >>> said, "it's an exercise for the reader." I don't know what the right way >>> forward is on that point. Suggestions are welcome, but to be honest I'm >>> happy to leave it as it is. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> [1] https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/59#issuecomment-131493548 >>> >>> On 16 September 2015 at 06:40, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Version under review: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 >>>> >>>> ## General comments >>>> >>>> There hasn’t been – to this point – a document that describes how the >>>> `file://` scheme works, and for that reason this is a good document. We are >>>> glad to see that the document specifies how to convert between file URIs >>>> and OS-dependent system filepaths. >>>> >>>> ### Limitations >>>> >>>> Regarding the use of `file://` URIs on the web, there are a few issues >>>> that need to be resolved for interoperability: >>>> >>>> 1. How does `file://` fit into the web's origin model? >>>> 2. How does retrieval of `file://` URIs fit into >>>> [Fetch](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/) and/or the [URL standard]( >>>> https://url.spec.whatwg.org)? >>>> >>>> This document does not address any of these issues, so we encourage the >>>> APPSAWG to consider addressing these. >>>> >>>> Regarding Fetch and URL, we recommend coordinating with Anne van Kesteren >>>> (@annevk) of the WHATWG. >>>> >>>> The TAG would be happy to coordinate with APPSAWG to address the question >>>> of what the origin of `file://` is (coordinating with others like Anne as >>>> necessary). >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> apps-discuss mailing list >>> apps-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ > > > > > From nobody Thu Sep 24 09:11:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14FA1A7014 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tM8oCk5Z4F_1 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC631A6FF5 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE8059409E; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=gbiv.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=gbiv.com; bh=oitO+zdGugKmIkNYm3WfDHT41PU=; b=YOD0KEylRSSQBw9jvKBJKLi6qWp5 S/FhpTdhWSStF5C1wW6TIVRrEJGZ9+/RRMbbnPS2tadE/EhbtWqj2AHQm5rT9g8D EQaJcAB2qm2Qn/ttcNfE+2buEZNqWjSpNWa4UJco3yKBYVpdIEaVo6csOn+Zb2nw n1SsQoDhJwYlcb0= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (ip68-228-83-124.oc.oc.cox.net [68.228.83.124]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: fielding@gbiv.com) by homiemail-a33.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6BF259407D; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: "Roy T. Fielding" In-Reply-To: <5603E486.8080903@ninebynine.org> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:11:27 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <540F1B35-8C63-488B-BFD0-BA65670BDED5@gbiv.com> References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> <5603E486.8080903@ninebynine.org> To: Graham Klyne X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Mark Nottingham , Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 16:11:34 -0000 > On Sep 24, 2015, at 4:54 AM, Graham Klyne wrote: >=20 > I agree that "shouldn't be on the web" is no excuse for not mentioning = known security issues. I have no argument that there should be mention = of origin issues. >=20 > My own experience of using file has been (IIRC) that file:// = references are a distinct origin from HTTP sites and others, so that any = attempt to access a web resource via a page loaded locally runs in to an = access violation. Maybe I misremember, or maybe things have changed = since I did any serious browser app coding. Yes, but URI scheme implementations consist of much more than just = browsers and it is common for all such implementations (including browsers) to = use file URIs, both internally and externally, when working within a local context. = There should be mention of security issues when a file reference appears inside an = unexpected (remote) context received by a browser, but there is no need to go = overboard with regard to the identifier scheme in general. ....Roy From nobody Mon Sep 28 23:20:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84D71A1ADA for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YWh2vEXvpUAn for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B0E11A1AD9 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.123.7] (unknown [75.83.2.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 049D9509BD for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 02:20:40 -0400 (EDT) To: "apps-discuss@ietf.org" From: Sean Leonard Message-ID: <560A2D96.7080605@seantek.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:20:06 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms070606080606070403040608" Archived-At: Subject: [apps-discuss] Volunteer needed for media type ISE review X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 06:20:44 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070606080606070403040608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks: A volunteer reviewer is needed for the text/nfo media type Independent=20 Submission (draft-seantek-text-nfo). If you're willing to help review=20 it, please let me know. 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DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDqX37f-0yhl for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x234.google.com (mail-qg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55B791A1BEC for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgt47 with SMTP id 47so141612183qgt.2 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=f6dak0E2hGeKmHpo2gtQ94TtHXWw1JVL0S++SrLvfXQ=; b=QrmGWbMyzKdThbmt68cUIJay+UhDPBZ9fRyKyYTgaAGY8MIJ+Go6jFBPQ1IFDuE7qT hbYNbrMEQZMPimdGT6Q6eziB+UVQxSKvgZOFgdoPmVLBkjKmIJapUvyt1geGVU4Gjj/H gje3pkwsyU+Rq6Gm0z11tTTijsvdOSSL3aVcdBdqgHexlQlJvppyg0atT9yaurMNkZue xzEPOZ/dASTqisHTgxHrJgJmSHJvZ7c2U7cbKDOGOqln55KjlpE5RiscRvz/V6+ejDww 5xhHk594Y6al6DlP/z+Ecddh88lrSLtcV3lKysR9RMzHNEMBZZ6AO+zrZfCAev0v3HFN 89Gg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.164.141 with SMTP id k135mr29055725qhk.40.1443512715599; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: phluid61@gmail.com Received: by 10.55.45.67 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:45:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 17:45:15 +1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0isfSsiZJS57qrNabP-HN5voadk Message-ID: From: Matthew Kerwin To: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f2cea467210520ddfe9d Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Graham Klyne , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 07:45:18 -0000 --001a1134f2cea467210520ddfe9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24 September 2015 at 09:22, Mark Nottingham wrote: > I don't think I disagree on the Fetch integration part, but not > documenting the origin of file -- thereby leaving potentially HUGE securi= ty > issues intact -- seems unwise. At the very least, I'd expect a "there be > dragons" security consideration (and that's at the *very* least). > > =E2=80=8BHow about pointing to and quoting RFC 6454: "=E2=80=8B4. If uri-scheme is "file", the implementation MAY return an implementation-defined value. NOTE: Historically, user agents have granted content from the file scheme a tremendous amount of privilege. However, granting all local files such wide privileges can lead to privilege escalation attacks. Some user agents have had success granting local files directory-based privileges, but this approach has not been widely adopted. Other user agents use globally unique identifiers for each file URI, which is the most secure option." That's a pretty solid "here be dragons," with a hint towards "proper" behaviour, without prescribing or proscribing what any current implementations do. Cheers --=20 Matthew Kerwin http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/ --001a1134f2cea467210520ddfe9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 24 September 2015 at 09:22, Mark Nottingham <= ;mnot@mnot.net> wrot= e:
I don't think I disagree on the Fetch integration part, = but not documenting the origin of file -- thereby leaving potentially HUGE = security issues intact -- seems unwise. At the very least, I'd expect a= "there be dragons" security consideration (and that's at the= *very* least).


=E2=80=8BHow about pointing to and quoting RFC 6454:

"=E2=80=8B4. If uri-scheme is "file", the implemen= tation MAY return an
implementation-defined value.=

NOTE: Historically,= user agents have granted content from the
file sc= heme a tremendous amount of privilege.=C2=A0 However,
granting all local files such wide privileges can lead to
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">privilege escalation attacks.=C2=A0 Some user agents have had
success granting local files directory-based privil= eges, but
this approach has not been widely adop= ted.=C2=A0 Other user agents
use globally unique i= dentifiers for each file URI, which is
the most se= cure option."

That&= #39;s a pretty solid "here be dragons," with a hint towards "= ;proper" behaviour, without prescribing or proscribing what any curren= t implementations do.

Cheers
--
<= div class=3D"gmail_signature">
=C2=A0 Matthew Kerwin
=C2= =A0 http://matt= hew.kerwin.net.au/
--001a1134f2cea467210520ddfe9d-- From nobody Tue Sep 29 04:20:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC71C1A8754 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y7gnpln98Azl for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 04:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EA521A874B for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 04:20:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1445; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443525638; x=1444735238; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=bZ0DEE83gi0/sU2FJVALSRSNjY1IwRV1Ic1kA5jPYoE=; b=KJYIQOL6cvSycEqN27QiW/tgUWiVYa4lnh3z4WTcGiLQ5FVpGxyxItzw 6ROaixKiaq7eYmq+m5LiRg0z5zuyNrIXezutqnZeXBcKUnv9TQ2+8IaTy 0gwRfezy88yhnqtksAlAyd/0LzpNbKwpbB+GJZNwkuXlEXJ6zm6+6Ub6y 8=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DPBADJcgpW/xbLJq1diAvCOgKCHQEBAQEBAYELhCUBAQQjVQEQCw4KCRYLAgIJAwIBAgFFBgEMCAEBiCq2fZRPAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARmLcIUNB4JpgUMBBJV0gkuBYYhniQWSP2OEAzyJUgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,607,1437436800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="607310732" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Sep 2015 11:20:36 +0000 Received: from [10.61.221.241] ([10.61.221.241]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t8TBKZol012572; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 11:20:36 GMT To: Mark Nottingham , Graham Klyne References: <56026C6D.6040701@ninebynine.org> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <560A7401.9080502@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:20:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4vnSf1po1J7lQEdGxvRon8HCTECGn3k9k" Archived-At: Cc: Anne van Kesteren , Apps Discuss Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] W3C TAG feedback on draft-ietf-appsawg-file-scheme-03 X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 11:20:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --4vnSf1po1J7lQEdGxvRon8HCTECGn3k9k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, On 9/24/15 1:22 AM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > I don't think I disagree on the Fetch integration part, but not documen= ting the origin of file -- thereby leaving potentially HUGE security issu= es intact -- seems unwise. At the very least, I'd expect a "there be drag= ons" security consideration (and that's at the *very* least). I agree and we've done that before. While I'm not particularly proud of the URI spec, check out THE ALL CAPITALS WARNINGS AT THE FRONT OF rfc 3617 ;-) Eliot --4vnSf1po1J7lQEdGxvRon8HCTECGn3k9k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWCnQDAAoJEIe2a0bZ0noz7EsIAKWWAWrFV92kzPm/l9nSYOav 6BcRTpuXR625dg59c7AYxssI7YeMKzq63DuN+VAr4couXJDe9Ev3GVv7dOckIvGY rHCwSJc6x1Kj9IC/Bq3zNQw1axJ+3NaYzf615q/Ay/r6U09SjczurDHWrVVqGnfE G/DIc2eil00NVaZ5e8tIKlVUmSoc6hUICxxIBl67aLnGGiax/i7IQ/O5kHTjDJhs VQb7SfgrNc4KjMQ40YIoC1E4K7gFoZSTs5yRJAUpFNDMi1/Fd1mpNfEyjeT98Mej 72Mar8btAlI1c/Ylt8vpXwfleH7wDg+9EgbIjAwg8z+KFXOER4v4k02qrnAiX+A= =CGXx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4vnSf1po1J7lQEdGxvRon8HCTECGn3k9k-- From nobody Tue Sep 29 04:30:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592CE1A8768 for ; 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Looking at that section for other Media Types, they mostly say something about the lack of confidentiality, integrity and so on, while this I-D explicitly mentions the ambiguity of some code points which to me says 'easy phishing'. That apart, s.2 'including perhaps null' should come off the fence, and say, eg, 'including null'! ' Published specification: This specification.' will not be so helpful when it is published. Suggest a Note to the RFC Editor to insert the RFC number here s.3 ' NFO is encoded in the latter, ' doesn't really parse for me as there do not seem to be two alternative encodings in the previous sentence. s.3.1 ' The codes in the 20-7E range correspond to US-ASCII and IBM437.' seems a bit sparse - 'correspond to the same codes in ...' or just 'are the same as in' This use of correspond occurs several times and I would change them all 'ROM graphemes.' Read Only Memory? expand on first use s.3.2 'The codes in the 80-AF range are a selection of non-US-English text characters; they correspond to IBM437.' Correspond again and while they are mostly non-US English text, not all are e.g. x'BC' s.3.7 this template corresponds to RFC2978 but I note that IANA has a few extra fields. Doubtless the Expert Reviewer will ask for them if needed. 3.5 Better to be explicit that it is the 'Media Types' registry that is the intended destination. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Leonard" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:20 AM