From nobody Thu Dec 14 13:35:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1CE7126FDC for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JJTTNjFi2LQp for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8524F1243F3 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1ePbAS-0001Qy-8t; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:35:48 +0100 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 160C1B00DA9; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:35:48 +0100 (CET) To: "aqm@ietf.org" , "LAUTENSCHLAEGER, Wolfram (Wolfram)" From: Roland Bless Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Message-ID: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:35:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111 Thunderbird/1.5 Mnenhy/0.7.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1513287348.323049199 Archived-At: Subject: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 21:35:53 -0000 Hi folks, I was wondering what happened to the GSP AQM proposal (draft-lauten-aqm-gsp see (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lauten-aqm-gsp). Discussion seems to have ended after IETF 93 and we probably missed the point of discussing WG adoption. IMHO this AQM should also be documented as RFC. It performs extremely well in some settings (better than CoDel or PIE) and its implementation complexity is also lower. Wolfram, are you interested in finishing this? Should we continue in tsvwg? Regards, Roland From nobody Thu Dec 14 13:59:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55931126B7E for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mti-systems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BxjouWR5SOdO for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x22d.google.com (mail-it0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64B951243F3 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id x28so15027329ita.0 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mti-systems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=N0zIF4nwc3PEzwmnrvs9gJxL5/OeNyq/cd/bHyGNj44=; b=PUSowVlUhRf1Vw+yeZ371MsnoZ0/M0xdFzPBjoL3i4xykWUpsQrnnZMR1n66y+jeLj D7RsmKxkUlPlIoqfRIEUaMa4NKXIvjW63SLYV2cg4bYMaRenr/ZXlOrqL/u77QuSB48x Vc4qWdWZ7icua9o+lrY7L4saov0KnjAXV/ajrQGRb0tZwigku1fuO9bp7svc+uwD6Bsd HHsrJUSSAFmbBMCA123iCbpne7UQIW/TtIfhDyRF/QRh8mE4V9dKiGmTnmhiQeg6NUSw Y7N1GyF/dXIKb2Ud/qFk9ageI+L1vE1zbzkg5MGxHdxKkXf9idATu+sBwxFkA1C2tayl zXaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=N0zIF4nwc3PEzwmnrvs9gJxL5/OeNyq/cd/bHyGNj44=; b=AQizYKT1z3gav5V4plTIesiUqklLc60AsCV9CCknuY1+ITxs/NO+t7WJ9lSO+UT+b1 L74i9wiwfd+mBuxsdFa8yTwNW2DGkazkjx8xOADqOtlixz74qmRzk0viqwjQgORbpsoG UgKpfurZXF9FfkAqNHrffu+d/tn7wBV0k+76xqN0USjbbDJlrTbSa9kIHRIOR/X0GzC3 58PvavFFaxNHYflRoQFxGhr2FHpUymP8Ge8tlFOMO+PAEDVbXDSsTRvPIWaWdYV2445S ENR6izFmegeKJ2lCYdrU9Hc+cQYD/aPXlp7myfwR8szZCHvttu9dSOQCoZnaWpbUdvMf S3HA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIggAvZQSL2mMjBDCH15nOJcGkKPO1TN6Yv8QSbGc4dVCZlhrO3 2MzTG+KLBZvwUhQY+heSkK2trg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotzAbvHpDjcDlMB3rKry+JQAa9U8OUlyqK/krTxmhP3L/cDKVDtfR/OZC2XRbvHuT377ciJ6Q== X-Received: by 10.36.91.15 with SMTP id g15mr5103226itb.141.1513288786799; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.105] (cpe-76-188-215-129.neo.res.rr.com. [76.188.215.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a69sm3129878itc.18.2017.12.14.13.59.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:46 -0800 (PST) To: Roland Bless , "aqm@ietf.org" , "LAUTENSCHLAEGER, Wolfram (Wolfram)" References: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> From: Wesley Eddy Message-ID: <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:59:45 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 21:59:49 -0000 On 12/14/2017 4:35 PM, Roland Bless wrote: > Hi folks, > > I was wondering what happened to the GSP AQM proposal > (draft-lauten-aqm-gsp see > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lauten-aqm-gsp). > Discussion seems to have ended after IETF 93 and we probably > missed the point of discussing WG adoption. > IMHO this AQM should also be documented as RFC. It performs extremely > well in some settings (better than CoDel or PIE) and its implementation > complexity is also lower. Wolfram, are you interested in finishing this? > Should we continue in tsvwg? > I mentioned GSP as a possible work item, back when we were discussing rechartering, but apparently it was not compelling to the group at that time. When we did the AQM algorithm adoption call ~2014, GSP appeared to be basically viable technically, but there wasn't evidence that multiple parties were interested in working with it enough to go forward (not just working the document, but implementing, simulating, testing, analyzing, deploying, etc).   There is a thread in the archives with subject "[aqm] adoption call: algorithm drafts". I haven't noticed a change in activity around GSP since then, but apologize if I'm just ignorant of it! From nobody Thu Dec 14 23:27:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F036B124BFA for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:26:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrpDqJEYp27m for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out02.uio.no (mail-out02.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B01D127201 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx06.uio.no ([129.240.10.40]) by mail-out02.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1ePkOR-000Eq1-P6; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:26:51 +0100 Received: from [160.80.82.29] by mail-mx06.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1ePkOQ-0001TR-Ud; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:26:51 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:26:55 +0100 Cc: Roland Bless , "aqm@ietf.org" , "LAUTENSCHLAEGER, Wolfram (Wolfram)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <723CBDCB-9A11-4527-9EDB-1892CCC134CE@ifi.uio.no> References: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> To: Wesley Eddy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx06.uio.no: 160.80.82.29 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=160.80.82.29; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=[160.80.82.29]; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 3AFE433EC0B428EA15E0F7AF91AA97B5B079361D Archived-At: Subject: Re: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:26:56 -0000 > On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:59 PM, Wesley Eddy wrote: >=20 > On 12/14/2017 4:35 PM, Roland Bless wrote: >> Hi folks, >>=20 >> I was wondering what happened to the GSP AQM proposal >> (draft-lauten-aqm-gsp see >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lauten-aqm-gsp). >> Discussion seems to have ended after IETF 93 and we probably >> missed the point of discussing WG adoption. >> IMHO this AQM should also be documented as RFC. It performs extremely >> well in some settings (better than CoDel or PIE) and its = implementation >> complexity is also lower. Wolfram, are you interested in finishing = this? >> Should we continue in tsvwg? >>=20 >=20 > I mentioned GSP as a possible work item, back when we were discussing = rechartering, but apparently it was not compelling to the group at that = time. >=20 > When we did the AQM algorithm adoption call ~2014, GSP appeared to be = basically viable technically, but there wasn't evidence that multiple = parties were interested in working with it enough to go forward (not = just working the document, but implementing, simulating, testing, = analyzing, deploying, etc). There is a thread in the archives with = subject "[aqm] adoption call: algorithm drafts=E2=80=9D. I agree, I also remember lack of activity / interest, but I would like = to encourage people to at least take a look at this. In my opinion, it was an extremely interesting proposal, and I felt I = learned something new from listening to Wolfram (I had become = conditioned to believe that removing synchronization requires = randomness). Cheers, Michael From nobody Fri Dec 15 00:25:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA27D126E01 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:25:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O7MC133u1I2J for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5618E124D85 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1ePlJY-0001X5-3b; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:25:52 +0100 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0027FB00A28; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:25:51 +0100 (CET) To: Wesley Eddy , "aqm@ietf.org" , "LAUTENSCHLAEGER, Wolfram (Wolfram)" References: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology Message-ID: <1b67c68b-00de-6cb2-cca1-5b9d06b58714@kit.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:25:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1513326352.165059007 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:25:58 -0000 Hi Wesley, Am 14.12.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Wesley Eddy: > I mentioned GSP as a possible work item, back when we were discussing > rechartering, but apparently it was not compelling to the group at that > time. > > When we did the AQM algorithm adoption call ~2014, GSP appeared to be > basically viable technically, but there wasn't evidence that multiple > parties were interested in working with it enough to go forward (not > just working the document, but implementing, simulating, testing, > analyzing, deploying, etc).   There is a thread in the archives with > subject "[aqm] adoption call: algorithm drafts". Thanks for the pointer! At that point in time there was not enough experience with it. > I haven't noticed a change in activity around GSP since then, but > apologize if I'm just ignorant of it! That's right, maybe Wolfram was busy with other stuff. Our group, however, worked with it at speeds of 1 Gbit/s and also 10 Gbit/s and we can confirm that its performance is comparable to - and w.r.t. loss desynchronization - even better than CoDel or PIE in many of our tested scenarios. Since it's heading for just an experimental status, the bar shouldn't be too high to get this finished. Regards, Roland From nobody Fri Dec 15 07:56:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E51128D8B for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:56:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2M1s1IC2X9J for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA8E1126C89 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:55:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=6ooRHNo6ffkT9s1Pf+pXnEnUI959Wf4IWjRnmOjwo8Q=; b=c0XmnijvUG6wugsJ62dxpx/zjTXD9eAM/sRJabD2jFLgYlqj+VhZn9UamqRE8HlGMSaMI6RfsT7/h7wN3BhXQ4OVtBH4HG5eS64iTW8EZY6jxMtyNNT8kCioEmO06Delkx1hGJEOdGHK4gfUqfFekiG8s0LUsJRKvp6I7Bl5NXM= Received: from DB4PR07MB425.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.237.141) by DB6PR07MB3365.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.233.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.323.4; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:55:54 +0000 Received: from DB4PR07MB425.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::99e:c37a:b9ba:6b18]) by DB4PR07MB425.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::99e:c37a:b9ba:6b18%15]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.011; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:55:54 +0000 From: "Francini, Andrea (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)" To: "Bless, Roland (TM)" , Wesley Eddy , "aqm@ietf.org" , "Lautenschlaeger, Wolfram (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" Thread-Topic: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? 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Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.102.179 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.102.179 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <468c391d-7e18-e67c-d1b6-b6526eb8d9e3@kit.edu> <6cbdb8fb-4a4f-9fdf-e391-081c9bf94a1f@mti-systems.com> <1b67c68b-00de-6cb2-cca1-5b9d06b58714@kit.edu> From: Jonathan Morton Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:15:48 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Francini, Andrea (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)" Cc: Roland Bless , Wesley Eddy , "aqm@ietf.org" , "Lautenschlaeger, Wolfram (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11479aa44c54bb05606350ba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:15:51 -0000 --001a11479aa44c54bb05606350ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Reading the spec, it looks very much as though it's tuned for implementation in relatively simple, high-speed nodes. It doesn't look at all like it would work in conjunction with flow isolation, which is inherently a much more effective idea when feasible to deploy - which it should be at speeds up to at least 1Gbps. However, I could see some use for GSP when combined with host isolation, at nodes aggregating a large number of subcriber hosts' traffic and thus requiring very high aggregate throughput. Host isolation doesn't require as many resources as full flow isolation, and is typically implemented anyway as part of per-subscriber provisioning. If tests are carried out, that might be the best scenario to start with. - Jonathan Morton --001a11479aa44c54bb05606350ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Reading the spec, it looks very much as though it's tune= d for implementation in relatively simple, high-speed nodes.=C2=A0 It doesn= 't look at all like it would work in conjunction with flow isolation, w= hich is inherently a much more effective idea when feasible to deploy - whi= ch it should be at speeds up to at least 1Gbps.

However, I could see some use for GSP when combined with hos= t isolation, at nodes aggregating a large number of subcriber hosts' tr= affic and thus requiring very high aggregate throughput.=C2=A0 Host isolati= on doesn't require as many resources as full flow isolation, and is typ= ically implemented anyway as part of per-subscriber provisioning.

If tests are carried out, that might be the best scenario to= start with.

- Jonathan Morton

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Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:04:33 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Francini, Andrea (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)" Cc: Roland Bless , Wesley Eddy , "aqm@ietf.org" , "Lautenschlaeger, Wolfram (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147995a62dcb405606682b2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [aqm] Status of the GSP AQM? X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 20:04:38 -0000 --001a1147995a62dcb405606682b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15 Dec 2017 19:19, "Francini, Andrea (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)" < andrea.francini@nokia-bell-labs.com> wrote: > > If =E2=80=9Cconjunction with flow isolation=E2=80=9D means combination of= the algorithm with a flow queueing arrangement, there is logically no restriction in realizing it. We tested FQ-GSP on ns2, getting similar results as with other FQ-AQM schemes (never worse, never overwhelmingly better in the scenarios we looked at). Since the algorithmic simplicity is not as critical in lower-speed links, we thought there was little value in trying to add one more scheme to an already crowded space. Perhaps a better wording would be, "it seems very unlikely to outperform existing AQMs in conjunction with FQ". > Also (and this is just my opinion), I don=E2=80=99t think that combining = FQ and AQM is a good idea, because it imposes a single policy on all flows despite the variety of their needs. I like a plain FQ with large buffer much better, because it guarantees bandwidth fairness and makes every application solely responsible for the queuing delay it gets. I have a couple of compelling arguments in favour of an AQM-FQ combination: 1: ECN aware flows are able to avoid incurring packet losses, by receiving and acting on information about link congestion when they reach their fair-share throughput. That should be music to the ears of those industry members who are apparently allergic to packet loss. 2: When it is unfortunately necessary to put the shaper downstream of the physical bottleneck link (ie. when consumers must compensate for an ISP's bufferbloat), AQM is the only reliable way to keep the bottleneck queue empty. Combining it with FQ ensures that only the saturating flows receive congestion signals and potentially lose packets. - Jonathan Morton --001a1147995a62dcb405606682b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 15 Dec 2017 19:19, "Francini, Andrea (Nokia - US/Mur= ray Hill)" <= andrea.francini@nokia-bell-labs.com> wrote:
>
> If =E2=80=9Cconjunction with flow isolation=E2=80=9D means combination= of the algorithm with a flow queueing arrangement, there is logically no r= estriction in realizing it. We tested FQ-GSP on ns2, getting similar result= s as with other FQ-AQM schemes (never worse, never overwhelmingly better in= the scenarios we looked at). Since the algorithmic simplicity is not as cr= itical in lower-speed links, we thought there was little value in trying to= add one more scheme to an already crowded space.

Perhaps a better wording would be, "it seems very unlik= ely to outperform existing AQMs in conjunction with FQ".

> Also (and this is just my opinion), I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk that combining FQ and AQM is a good idea, because it imposes a single po= licy on all flows despite the variety of their needs. I like a plain FQ wit= h large buffer much better, because it guarantees bandwidth fairness and ma= kes every application solely responsible for the queuing delay it gets.

I have a couple of compelling arguments in favour of an AQM-= FQ combination:

1: ECN aware flows are able to avoid incurring packet losses= , by receiving and acting on information about link congestion when they re= ach their fair-share throughput.=C2=A0 That should be music to the ears of = those industry members who are apparently allergic to packet loss.

2: When it is unfortunately necessary to put the shaper down= stream of the physical bottleneck link (ie. when consumers must compensate = for an ISP's bufferbloat), AQM is the only reliable way to keep the bot= tleneck queue empty.=C2=A0 Combining it with FQ ensures that only the satur= ating flows receive congestion signals and potentially lose packets.

- Jonathan Morton

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