From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 00:21:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN0CB-0007SN-6F; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:20:43 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN0C9-0007SC-Ft; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:20:41 -0500 Received: from tayrelbas03.tay.hp.com ([161.114.80.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN0C4-0005wn-5F; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:20:41 -0500 Received: from tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.186]) by tayrelbas03.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A2134145; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:20:35 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:20:33 -0500 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation Thread-Index: AcdaimuhwMlr3tVjSEGGvR6sRsxtlwCAAIYQ References: From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Lixia Zhang" , "Romascanu, Dan ((Dan))" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 05:20:35.0545 (UTC) FILETIME=[81C03C90:01C75C8A] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: Tony Li , ram@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org but it is scheduled on a saturday :--). /jim=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lixia Zhang [mailto:lixia@CS.UCLA.EDU]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:14 AM > To: Romascanu, Dan ((Dan)) > Cc: Tony Li; ram@ietf.org; architecture-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation >=20 >=20 > On Feb 27, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Romascanu, Dan ((Dan)) wrote: >=20 > > Is this meeting open to everybody, open to the IETF meeting=20 > attendees,=20 > > not open? > > > > Dan >=20 > Yes this RRG meeting is open to everyone. We need the=20 > community's joint effort to develop a good architectural solution. > We would like to encourage people to register for IETF as=20 > IETF resources are being used to provide the room, projector,=20 > network access, etc. for this meeting. However for those who=20 > do not plan to attend IETF otherwise, it seems unpractical to=20 > require them to register for IETF. >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tony Li [mailto:tli@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 AM > >> To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org; ram@ietf.org > >> Cc: Lixia Zhang > >> Subject: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> The Routing Research Group of the IRTF will be holding a one-day=20 > >> seminar in Prague on March 17th to discuss the=20 > architectural issues=20 > >> confronting the Internet. This meeting will be held in=20 > conjunction=20 > >> with, and just prior to, the upcoming IETF meeting. > >> > >> We would like to invite researchers to participate in this seminar=20 > >> and in the ongoing activities of the RRG. We are calling for=20 > >> contributions and talks on architectural problem analysis and=20 > >> proposed alternative routing and addressing architectures for the=20 > >> Internet. > >> > >> Please contact the RRG co-chairs, Lixia Zhang and myself,=20 > if you are=20 > >> interested in giving a presentation. Currently scheduled=20 > talks can=20 > >> be found at=20 > http://www1.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/RRG. If=20 > >> you are making a presentation, we do ask that your=20 > material (papers,=20 > >> slides, etc.) be made available via the Internet prior to the=20 > >> seminar. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Lixia & Tony > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> RAM mailing list > >> RAM@iab.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram > >> >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >=20 _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 01:38:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1Nq-0001tj-AH; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:36:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1No-0001sp-SK; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:36:48 -0500 Received: from neo-u2.ops-netman.net ([2001:408:1009:1:2d0:a8ff:fe00:4bc4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN1Nm-0007O7-Vg; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:36:48 -0500 Received: from [IPv6?2001?408?1009?2?211?24ff?fea9?7105] (en1.russian-fingers.as701.net [IPv6:2001:408:1009:2:211:24ff:fea9:7105]) by neo-u2.ops-netman.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9094613B5; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 06:36:33 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chris Morrow Subject: Re: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 01:36:31 -0500 To: "Bound, Jim" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: Tony Li , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, ram@ietf.org, Lixia Zhang X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Mar 2, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Bound, Jim wrote: > but it is scheduled on a saturday :--). > but it's important... > /jim > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lixia Zhang [mailto:lixia@CS.UCLA.EDU] >> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:14 AM >> To: Romascanu, Dan ((Dan)) >> Cc: Tony Li; ram@ietf.org; architecture-discuss@ietf.org >> Subject: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation >> >> >> On Feb 27, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Romascanu, Dan ((Dan)) wrote: >> >>> Is this meeting open to everybody, open to the IETF meeting >> attendees, >>> not open? >>> >>> Dan >> >> Yes this RRG meeting is open to everyone. We need the >> community's joint effort to develop a good architectural solution. >> We would like to encourage people to register for IETF as >> IETF resources are being used to provide the room, projector, >> network access, etc. for this meeting. However for those who >> do not plan to attend IETF otherwise, it seems unpractical to >> require them to register for IETF. >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Tony Li [mailto:tli@cisco.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 AM >>>> To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org; ram@ietf.org >>>> Cc: Lixia Zhang >>>> Subject: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> The Routing Research Group of the IRTF will be holding a one-day >>>> seminar in Prague on March 17th to discuss the >> architectural issues >>>> confronting the Internet. This meeting will be held in >> conjunction >>>> with, and just prior to, the upcoming IETF meeting. >>>> >>>> We would like to invite researchers to participate in this seminar >>>> and in the ongoing activities of the RRG. We are calling for >>>> contributions and talks on architectural problem analysis and >>>> proposed alternative routing and addressing architectures for the >>>> Internet. >>>> >>>> Please contact the RRG co-chairs, Lixia Zhang and myself, >> if you are >>>> interested in giving a presentation. Currently scheduled >> talks can >>>> be found at >> http://www1.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/RRG. If >>>> you are making a presentation, we do ask that your >> material (papers, >>>> slides, etc.) be made available via the Internet prior to the >>>> seminar. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Lixia & Tony >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> RAM mailing list >>>> RAM@iab.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture-discuss mailing list >> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 09:26:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8gW-0002FM-JF; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:24:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8gV-0002D7-Cw; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:24:35 -0500 Received: from s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net ([72.255.0.201]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8gP-0003HR-OJ; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:24:33 -0500 Received: from s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net (SMSSMTP 4.1.2.20) with SMTP id M2007030209242620040 ; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:24:26 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=9.9 tests=ALL_TRUSTED: -2.867,AWL: -0.452,BAYES_00: -1.665, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4: 0.903 X-Spam-Level: Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([10.24.135.92]) by s-utl01-dcpop.stsn.net; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:24:25 -0500 Message-ID: <45E83378.9040709@isi.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:23:52 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Morrow Subject: Re: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: Tony Li , ram@ietf.org, Lixia Zhang , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, "Bound, Jim" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0019004182==" Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0019004182== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigA3CBEF5E6F4FED08C68CA6C4" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigA3CBEF5E6F4FED08C68CA6C4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Morrow wrote: >=20 > On Mar 2, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Bound, Jim wrote: >=20 >> but it is scheduled on a saturday :--). >> >=20 > but it's important... There have been various previous discussions on the issue of holding side meetings before/after the IETF. It's already a week long, and, given sufficient planning, there could have been a slot or two where these issues could have been scheduled. This meeting may be important in the abstract, but being promoted this late means that anyone with substantial flight plans is unlikely to attend. If it's important to have, it's important to schedule in a way that makes it clear to the community that it's a priority to attend. Announcing this late and not giving it 'real' slots during the meeting (couldn't Friday have been cleared?) isn't the best way to achieve that goal, IMO. Joe --=20 ---------------------------------------- Joe Touch Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment --------------enigA3CBEF5E6F4FED08C68CA6C4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6DN+E5f5cImnZrsRAmu6AKDHY3IPirpqt4aGIoUMdVa8+Y2hdQCfQpJx DF1ucQykDmBGEJVbWpRXYO4= =LgDb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigA3CBEF5E6F4FED08C68CA6C4-- --===============0019004182== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss --===============0019004182==-- From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 09:33:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8og-0005di-Qf; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:33:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8of-0005Zd-S8; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:33:01 -0500 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8od-0004ZF-88; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:33:01 -0500 Received: from [63.105.122.7] (account marshall_eubanks HELO [IPv6:::1]) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 6262995; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:32:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: <45E83378.9040709@isi.edu> References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <45E83378.9040709@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Eubanks Subject: Re: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:32:40 -0500 To: Joe Touch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: Tony Li , ram@ietf.org, Lixia Zhang , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, "Bound, Jim" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hello; On Mar 2, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > Chris Morrow wrote: >> >> On Mar 2, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Bound, Jim wrote: >> >>> but it is scheduled on a saturday :--). >>> >> >> but it's important... > > There have been various previous discussions on the issue of holding > side meetings before/after the IETF. It's already a week long, and, > given sufficient planning, there could have been a slot or two where > these issues could have been scheduled. > > This meeting may be important in the abstract, but being promoted this > late means that anyone with substantial flight plans is unlikely to > attend. If it's important to have, it's important to schedule in a way > that makes it clear to the community that it's a priority to attend. +1 > > Announcing this late and not giving it 'real' slots during the meeting > (couldn't Friday have been cleared?) isn't the best way to achieve > that > goal, IMO. > Friday already has MBONE Deployment and the Routing Area Working Group WG on top of each other; please do not add a third. Regards Marshall > Joe > > -- > ---------------------------------------- > Joe Touch > Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 09:42:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8wy-0004Jg-8r; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:41:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8wx-0004JX-31; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:41:35 -0500 Received: from s-utl02-dcpop.stsn.net ([72.255.0.202]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN8wu-0005qT-VG; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:41:34 -0500 Received: from s-utl02-dcpop.stsn.net ([127.0.0.1]) by s-utl02-dcpop.stsn.net (SMSSMTP 4.1.2.20) with SMTP id M2007030209411918710 ; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:41:19 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=9.9 tests=ALL_TRUSTED: -2.867,AWL: -0.298,BAYES_00: -1.665, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4: 0.903 X-Spam-Level: Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([10.24.135.92]) by s-utl02-dcpop.stsn.net; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: <45E8377D.3010800@isi.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:41:01 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marshall Eubanks Subject: Re: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <45E83378.9040709@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Cc: Tony Li , ram@ietf.org, Lixia Zhang , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, "Bound, Jim" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1213052540==" Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1213052540== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCA610783B6592C2BB5B4515A" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCA610783B6592C2BB5B4515A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marshall Eubanks wrote: =2E.. >> Announcing this late and not giving it 'real' slots during the meeting= >> (couldn't Friday have been cleared?) isn't the best way to achieve tha= t >> goal, IMO. >=20 > Friday already has MBONE Deployment and the Routing Area Working Group > WG on top of each other; > please do not add a third. FWIW, I was suggesting clearing it, not adding to it. Joe --=20 ---------------------------------------- Joe Touch Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment --------------enigCA610783B6592C2BB5B4515A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6Dd9E5f5cImnZrsRAhJ4AKCY/sP8773QVSPt/77DCxlbefTu0QCgqejd qbCqzgxQoiqTAtX3Zue3M5w= =yAL1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCA610783B6592C2BB5B4515A-- --===============1213052540== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss --===============1213052540==-- From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 02 09:56:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN99q-0000l7-SB; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:54:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN99p-0000j5-8l; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:54:53 -0500 Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HN99o-00089l-2g; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:54:53 -0500 Received: from [63.105.122.7] (account marshall_eubanks HELO [IPv6:::1]) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 6263083; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:54:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: <45E8377D.3010800@isi.edu> References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC0179E96C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <45E83378.9040709@isi.edu> <45E8377D.3010800@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <44AABF45-3F79-4052-8AF1-F6A3AC312491@multicasttech.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Eubanks Subject: Re: [arch-d] Re: [RAM] IRTF RRG: call for participation Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:54:40 -0500 To: Joe Touch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: Tony Li , ram@ietf.org, Lixia Zhang , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, "Bound, Jim" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hello; On Mar 2, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > Marshall Eubanks wrote: > ... >>> Announcing this late and not giving it 'real' slots during the >>> meeting >>> (couldn't Friday have been cleared?) isn't the best way to >>> achieve that >>> goal, IMO. >> >> Friday already has MBONE Deployment and the Routing Area Working >> Group >> WG on top of each other; >> please do not add a third. > > FWIW, I was suggesting clearing it, not adding to it. I know, but good luck to that at this date; as it is, Dino Farinacci is hoping to present in both meetings and I have been unable to get either moved. Regards Marshall > > Joe > -- > ---------------------------------------- > Joe Touch > Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment > _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 05 14:01:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOIR2-000761-Ut; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:01:24 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOIMS-0003sY-GQ; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:56:40 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOIMR-0002d2-6p; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:56:40 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2007 10:56:39 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,251,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="397043781:sNHT145800182" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l25IucA6024209; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:56:38 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l25IubYs005977; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:56:38 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:56:38 -0800 Received: from [171.71.55.245] ([171.71.55.245]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:56:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7ADCE0AB-A94B-4FDC-A207-FABAB5BB0720@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: rrg , ram@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: Tony Li Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:56:35 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2007 18:56:37.0618 (UTC) FILETIME=[00A8ED20:01C75F58] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=158; t=1173120998; x=1173984998; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=tli@cisco.com; z=From:=20Tony=20Li=20 |Subject:=20RRG=20meeting=20change=20of=20venue |Sender:=20; bh=wKCQicYlQBRqsb5ffcU5fKvWUKKGsym8iJyDotust5U=; b=im3jNoYjPUGWdxDgHAX6ACWOoMRyy+4S8cnmq8uzmOwZNo7/84tv+8+vE+AyxPWNRhCEqSiP TmdjcUifypF7sViQHdEpl9Cx3y98br2YrZ3O6zsFbz+iEwpZfvsGV/UZ; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=tli@cisco.com; dkim=pass (sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:01:23 -0500 Cc: Subject: [arch-d] RRG meeting change of venue X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Please note that the RRG meeting on Saturday, March 17th has changed rooms. It will now be held in the Madrid/Vienna room. Thanks, Lixia & Tony _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 16 08:20:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSBO8-0001UQ-Ct; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:18:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSBO7-0001Tw-3M for architecture-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:18:27 -0400 Received: from smtp4.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSBO1-0005gf-GA for architecture-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:18:27 -0400 Received: from i2kc08-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.71]) by smtp4.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:20 +0000 Received: from cbibipnt08.iuser.iroot.adidom.com ([147.149.100.81]) by i2kc08-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:20 +0000 Received: From bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk ([132.146.168.158]) by cbibipnt08.iuser.iroot.adidom.com (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.399); id 1174047565155; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:19:25 +0000 Received: from mut.jungle.bt.co.uk ([10.86.1.77]) by bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk (8.13.5/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l2GCIE21005779 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:16 GMT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20070316121712.04527018@pop3.jungle.bt.co.uk> X-Sender: rbriscoe@pop3.jungle.bt.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:18:12 +0000 To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: Bob Briscoe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -1.36 () ALL_TRUSTED X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 132.146.168.158 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2007 12:18:20.0079 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F291BF0:01C767C5] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Subject: [arch-d] Bar BoF on "re-ECN architectural intent" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org arch-d, [apologies if duplicate] "The architectural intent of the re-ECN protocol" In Prague we'll be doing an unofficial Bar BoF on this (see ) Wed 21 March 1510-1640 in Karlin I. A number of people have asked for this, as they've found the short slots in IETF w-gs aren't really suitable to discuss and challenge the intent of what is effectively a major architectural change, albeit in one bit. Proposed Bar BoF agenda: Start 15:10 1. [ 5mins] Administrivia 2. [30mins] Architectural intent of re-ECN (including a simple abstraction of how it works) 3. [20mins] Questions & Answers 4. [10mins] Is there community interest in working in this problem space? IETF or IRTF? How best to go about architectural change. Next Steps. 5. [10mins] I'll try to get cookies & drinks in the room. 6. [15mins (squeezable/stretchable)] More questions & discussion. End 16:40 Brief background and further links below... ============================================================================ The re-ECN protocol aims to make IP senders (including forwarders) accountable for the pain they inflict on others (congestion). The re-ECN protocol claims to allow different forms of congestion control to be policed in different ways, or not policed at all, depending on policy. Embodied in re-ECN's design are implicit answers or deliberate non-answers to many subtle architectural and policy issues: - who should decide on fairness? - how do we expect networks as a whole to police traffic from other networks? - what fairness policies might ISPs or groups of users want between them? - not just provider networks, but self-provided (incl. ad hoc) networks? - re-ECN claims to allow evolvability of congestion control. Assumptions? - it claims to mitigate DDoS and provide the right incentives to fix it. How? - it claims to do QoS more simply? Sure? - how does re-ECN relate to routing? - what about cheating? - should we control the sender or the receiver or both? - doesn't this just move the policing problem up a layer? - what about layered networks (IP over MPLS, ethernet, IP in IP etc)? - what likely outcome will we see for the Internet with this? - what if we do nothing? - why doesn't it solve world hunger? Re-ECN: Adding Accountability for Causing Congestion to TCP/IP Full list of supporting documentation and papers: Bob ____________________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe, Networks Research Centre, BT Research B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5 3RE,UK. +44 1473 645196 _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 21 09:59:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HU1Jh-00030K-My; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:57:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HU1Jg-0002zo-5C for architecture-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:57:28 -0400 Received: from smtp5.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.139]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HU1JZ-0001AV-TX for architecture-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:57:28 -0400 Received: from i2kc06-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.70]) by smtp5.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:57:19 +0000 Received: from cbibipnt05.iuser.iroot.adidom.com ([147.149.196.177]) by i2kc06-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:57:19 +0000 Received: From bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk ([132.146.168.158]) by cbibipnt05.iuser.iroot.adidom.com (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.399); id 1174485438180; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:57:18 +0000 Received: from mut.jungle.bt.co.uk ([10.86.6.126]) by bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk (8.13.5/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l2LDv93T014154; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:57:16 GMT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20070321134910.02931008@pop3.jungle.bt.co.uk> X-Sender: rbriscoe@pop3.jungle.bt.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:57:14 +0000 To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, tsvwg , iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk, tsv-area@ietf.org, DCCP mailing list From: Bob Briscoe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -1.36 () ALL_TRUSTED X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 132.146.168.158 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2007 13:57:19.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[D74D51D0:01C76BC0] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 Cc: Aaron Falk , Toby MONCASTER Subject: [arch-d] Fwd: Unofficial BoF on "re-ECN architectural intent" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Folks, Unofficial BoF (starting in 12mins). Wed 21 March 1510-1640 (90mins) in Karlin I. I've arranged with Marcia for cookies & drinks to be left outside the room part-way through, so I've scheduled a 10min break to go hunting and gathering. Slides are here Loads of spare slides for whatever questions you fire at me. Agenda is below (unchanged from previous announcement). Aaron Falk will kindly be chairing this. Cheers Bob >Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:19:04 +0000 >To: DCCP mailing list >From: Bob Briscoe >Subject: Unofficial BoF on "re-ECN architectural intent" > >DCCPers, > >"The architectural intent of the re-ECN protocol" >In Prague we'll be doing an unofficial 'Bar' BoF on this (see > for what that is) > >Wed 21 March 1510-1640 in Karlin I. > >A number of people have asked for this, as they've found the short slots >in IETF w-gs aren't really suitable to discuss and challenge the intent of >what is effectively a proposal for major architectural change, albeit in >one bit. > >It's v relevant to DCCP, as it provides the environment for evolution of >"responsible" new congestion controls, but it gives much more freedom than >TCP-friendliness (I've explained why that's a broken concept anyway in ). > >Proposed Bar BoF agenda: >Start 15:10 >1. [ 5mins] Administrivia >2. [30mins] Architectural intent of re-ECN > (including a simple abstraction of how it works) >3. [20mins] Questions & Answers >4. [10mins] Is there community interest in working in this problem space? > IETF or IRTF? > How best to go about architectural change. > Next Steps. >5. [10mins] I'll try to get cookies & drinks in the room. >6. [15mins (squeezable/stretchable)] More questions & discussion. >End 16:40 > >Brief background and further links below... > >============================================================================ >The re-ECN protocol aims to make IP senders (including forwarders) >accountable for the pain they inflict on others (congestion). The re-ECN >protocol claims to allow different forms of congestion control to be >policed in different ways, or not policed at all, depending on policy. > >Embodied in re-ECN's design are implicit answers or deliberate non-answers >to many subtle architectural and policy issues: >- who should decide on fairness? >- how do we expect networks as a whole to police traffic from other networks? >- what fairness policies might ISPs or groups of users want between them? >- not just provider networks, but self-provided (incl. ad hoc) networks? >- re-ECN claims to allow evolvability of congestion control. Assumptions? >- it claims to mitigate DDoS and provide the right incentives to fix it. How? >- it claims to do QoS more simply? Sure? >- how does re-ECN relate to routing? >- what about cheating? >- should we control the sender or the receiver or both? >- doesn't this just move the policing problem up a layer? >- what about layered networks (IP over MPLS, ethernet, IP in IP etc)? >- what likely outcome will we see for the Internet with this? >- what if we do nothing? >- why doesn't it solve world hunger? > > >Re-ECN: Adding Accountability for Causing Congestion to TCP/IP > > >Full list of supporting documentation and papers: > > > > >Bob > > >____________________________________________________________________________ >Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and does not >necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT plc. >____________________________________________________________________________ >Bob Briscoe, Networks Research Centre, BT Research >B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5 3RE,UK. +44 1473 645196 ____________________________________________________________________________ Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and does not necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT plc. ____________________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe, Networks Research Centre, BT Research B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5 3RE,UK. +44 1473 645196 _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss