From nobody Tue Jul 17 02:46:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55302130E70 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:46:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3plA9pijSft4 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0502.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.223]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333B3130DD5 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.13.1 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrheelgddulecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtgfgkgfrsehtqhgttddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeghihhllhhirghmpgflpgfiucfqvhgvrhhinhhgthhonhcuoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedutddruddutddrudefrddupdekiedrudehuddrfeelrdduvdeinecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopeifvggsmhgrihhltdelrdgsthdrvgigthdrtghptghlohhuugdrtghordhukhdpihhnvghtpedutddruddutddrudefrddupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqedprhgtphhtthhopeeorghrtghhihhtvggtthhurhgvqdguihhstghushhssehivghtfhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehirggssehirggsrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeothdvthhrghesihhrthhfrdhorhhgqeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt Received: from webmail09.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.13.1) by rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5AF3284805FDC336; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:46:49 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1531820810; bh=AMuFvdsafRMXyrT4NuX1HV1S5S/tE73SqMGn86+peCc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=GWhuNrZ0qnSCWeQnuVa/6E4nTuEvPklLolpu9S6qU30TSLkRE+TUG6ubOFz6dURxOSe01DjtzmbaXwy3WHeeIEUcbi9BV3nzztjg3hdLjRVFjuFGiPsA7G9Bfm3xRP7nXBC8zIEXw8w/hgEG/hhqvWbVsk36ak+xBVQQiX7yVtc= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:46:49 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org, iab@iab.org Message-ID: <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.151.39.126] Epoch[1531820809128] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Call for Comment: Report from the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 2016 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:46:54 -0000 Hi I am fairly new to research on The Internet of Things. I have been looking at the document. I have noted the matter of interoperability. Recently I have been posting some ideas to the Thing-to-Thing Research Grou= p (T2TRG) mailing list. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/t2trg/ I refer in particular to three posts from me, namely my third post of Satur= day 14 July 2018, https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/puH70mLzz2T9IPUgooaozVcbKKI and my post of Tuesday 10 July 2018 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/zQ1aoP1QidCU2cnDR8NnTWhsVVo and my second post of Thursday 12 July 2018 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/CLBC7cqUM0kku3LxMI0hTBLe-qo Please note that some of the posts have links out to my webspace. Please kn= ow that the webspace is now hosted by Plusnet PLC, an internet service prov= ider in the United Kingdom, which took over the company that had taken over= the company that originally hosted the webspace as a free with internet di= al-up access webspace back in the late 1990s: I have now used broadband (fr= om British Telecommunications PLC) for many years but I have been able to k= eep the webspace although the dial-up facility itself has been closed down.= I am located in the United Kingdom. I pay a fee of just over =C2=A320 each= year to have the facility of the webspace and I add items to it by ftp acc= ess from my home computer, a Lenovo ideapad 510 running Windows 10. I menti= on these matters so as to try to provide provenance that the webspace is sa= fe to access. The PDF documents referenced have been produced using the Ser= if PagePlus desktop publishing program. Could this method solve the interoperability problem, in that it is indepen= dent of any manufacturer and is open source and free to use? The method has the advantages that it is language-independent, so a device = does not need to analyse English or any other language; and also the codes = can be localized, by using a sentence.dat text file as a look up table from= code to sentence in a language, into any human language that can be encode= d using Unicode characters so that a human can easily monitor what is happe= ning. Can we discuss these ideas please? William Overington Tuesday 17 July 2018 ----Original message---- >From : execd@iab.org Date : 2018/07/16 - 15:27 (GMTDT) To : ietf-announce@ietf.org Subject : Call for Comment: <draft-iab-iotsi-workshop-02> Report from= the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 20= 16 This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on=20 draft-iab-iotsi-workshop-02. The document is being considered for publication as an Informational RFC=20 within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-iotsi-workshop/ The Call for Comment will last until 2018-08-13. Please send comments to architecture-discuss@ietf.org and iab@iab.org. Abstract This document provides a summary of the 'Workshop on Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI)', which took place in Santa Clara, California, on March 17-18, 2016. The main goal of the workshop was to foster a discussion on the different approaches used by companies and Standards Developing Organizations (SDOs) to accomplish interoperability at the application layer. This report summarizes the discussions, and lists recommendations to the standards community. The views and positions in this report are those of the workshop participants and do not necessarily reflect those of the authors and the Internet Architecture Board (IAB), which organized the workshop. From nobody Tue Jul 17 02:58:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01E9124D68 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:58:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T9T4YUazAZBK for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0104.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.124]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6089F1294D7 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 02:58:30 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.13.1 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrheelgddvudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtgfgkgfrsehtqhgttddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeghihhllhhirghmpgflpgfiucfqvhgvrhhinhhgthhonhcuoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedutddruddutddrudefrddupdekiedrudehuddrfeelrdduvdeinecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopeifvggsmhgrihhltdelrdgsthdrvgigthdrtghptghlohhuugdrtghordhukhdpihhnvghtpedutddruddutddrudefrddupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqedprhgtphhtthhopeeorghrtghhihhtvggtthhurhgvqdguihhstghushhssehivghtfhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehirggssehirggsrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeothdvthhrghesihhrthhfrdhorhhgqeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt Received: from webmail09.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.13.1) by rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5B321EA001A727C4; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:58:29 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1531821510; bh=AMuFvdsafRMXyrT4NuX1HV1S5S/tE73SqMGn86+peCc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=UCUeXhxFNyDp9avuCPIhLgQvwtqMs7YYRoUib6mRXOmfa8lRDIXIQpefvqvMTyr6B3nFTf4pIND0Qnhu9w70T38FCO5A3/KSDUA9jaaTn5QRM9ybMoEGhyr9XjA6VjBP+ltKTZCbXj5m6Nw6ZbeXfiDapjh2/bYQsylw8ZglMeI= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:58:29 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab@iab.org, t2trg@irtf.org Message-ID: <22517207.12096.1531821509797.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CP-FORWARD-INLINE-UID: 2493 X-CP-FORWARD-INLINE-UID: 2493 X-CP-FORWARD-INLINE-PATH: Sent X-CP-FORWARD-INLINE-PATH: Sent Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.151.39.126] Epoch[1531821509759] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Call for Comment: Report from the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 2016 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:58:33 -0000 Hi I am fairly new to research on The Internet of Things. I have been looking at the document. I have noted the matter of interoperability. Recently I have been posting some ideas to the Thing-to-Thing Research Grou= p (T2TRG) mailing list. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/t2trg/ I refer in particular to three posts from me, namely my third post of Satur= day 14 July 2018, https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/puH70mLzz2T9IPUgooaozVcbKKI and my post of Tuesday 10 July 2018 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/zQ1aoP1QidCU2cnDR8NnTWhsVVo and my second post of Thursday 12 July 2018 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/t2trg/CLBC7cqUM0kku3LxMI0hTBLe-qo Please note that some of the posts have links out to my webspace. Please kn= ow that the webspace is now hosted by Plusnet PLC, an internet service prov= ider in the United Kingdom, which took over the company that had taken over= the company that originally hosted the webspace as a free with internet di= al-up access webspace back in the late 1990s: I have now used broadband (fr= om British Telecommunications PLC) for many years but I have been able to k= eep the webspace although the dial-up facility itself has been closed down.= I am located in the United Kingdom. I pay a fee of just over =C2=A320 each= year to have the facility of the webspace and I add items to it by ftp acc= ess from my home computer, a Lenovo ideapad 510 running Windows 10. I menti= on these matters so as to try to provide provenance that the webspace is sa= fe to access. The PDF documents referenced have been produced using the Ser= if PagePlus desktop publishing program. Could this method solve the interoperability problem, in that it is indepen= dent of any manufacturer and is open source and free to use? The method has the advantages that it is language-independent, so a device = does not need to analyse English or any other language; and also the codes = can be localized, by using a sentence.dat text file as a look up table from= code to sentence in a language, into any human language that can be encode= d using Unicode characters so that a human can easily monitor what is happe= ning. Can we discuss these ideas please? William Overington Tuesday 17 July 2018 ----Original message---- >From : execd@iab.org Date : 2018/07/16 - 15:27 (GMTDT) To : ietf-announce@ietf.org Subject : Call for Comment: <draft-iab-iotsi-workshop-02> Report from= the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 20= 16 This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on=20 draft-iab-iotsi-workshop-02. The document is being considered for publication as an Informational RFC=20 within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-iotsi-workshop/ The Call for Comment will last until 2018-08-13. Please send comments to architecture-discuss@ietf.org and iab@iab.org. Abstract This document provides a summary of the 'Workshop on Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI)', which took place in Santa Clara, California, on March 17-18, 2016. The main goal of the workshop was to foster a discussion on the different approaches used by companies and Standards Developing Organizations (SDOs) to accomplish interoperability at the application layer. This report summarizes the discussions, and lists recommendations to the standards community. The views and positions in this report are those of the workshop participants and do not necessarily reflect those of the authors and the Internet Architecture Board (IAB), which organized the workshop. From nobody Tue Jul 17 05:00:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE43130DE3 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:00:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oZ5K0lKGNrmh for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout03.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0301.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.207]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE342130E9C for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.12.1 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrheelgdegiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtgfgkgfrsehtjegttddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeghihhllhhirghmpgflpgfiucfqvhgvrhhinhhgthhonhcuoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepuddtrdduuddtrdduvddruddpkedurdduheelrddvhedvrdekgeenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghlohepfigvsghmrghilhdtledrsghtrdgvgihtrdgtphgtlhhouhgurdgtohdruhhkpdhinhgvthepuddtrdduuddtrdduvddruddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeofihjghhopgdutddttdelsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoegrrhgthhhithgvtghtuhhrvgdqughishgtuhhsshesihgvthhfrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeoihgrsgesihgrsgdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtvdhtrhhgsehirhhtfhdrohhrgheqnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Received: from webmail09.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.12.1) by rgout03.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5B4CE16C000D7F11; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:00:49 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1531828851; bh=vHi+l83LxEi4KZXw0sxMrpbs/CONEk8NpFLJ3dE8I34=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=Kvo1bK40LE5E/R7gxpc0OBrPIEjTAcM9n7pfySQm+awXpgEL9hv5mWKrC7KOgFiEcoxZrDy+9Mit+xTI70dUP+FUgldof2WVGLVkG7xRoJtnjoFk3F6/i2Y8E2QR3S6EGakyn9ghoSjWNMI8COCMINj9SHOodmjUfD0guZkszfk= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:00:49 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org, iab@iab.org Message-ID: <3103242.21353.1531828849951.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <22517207.12096.1531821509797.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> <22517207.12096.1531821509797.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48581 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[81.159.252.84] Epoch[1531828849930] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] An apology X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 12:00:54 -0000 Hi Earlier today I posted to architecture-discussion@ietf.org and t2trg@irtf.org, also iab@iab.org as well. After posting I could not find the post in the archive for architecture-discussion and I thought that that was because I had not registered for architecture-discussion. So I registered and then posted again. However, now, both copies are in both archives. My apologies. Could someone possibly delete the second versions from the archives please? William Overington Tuesday 17 July 2018 From nobody Thu Jul 19 09:05:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D8913106B for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i4k65wZmcrii for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 09:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0502.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.223]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDBD130DF9 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 09:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.13.1 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrieeggdeltdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtgfgkgfrsehtjegttddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeghihhllhhirghmpgflpgfiucfqvhgvrhhinhhgthhonhcuoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepuddtrdduuddtrddufedruddpkeeirddujeekrddtrdegjeenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghlohepfigvsghmrghilhefhedrsghtrdgvgihtrdgtphgtlhhouhgurdgtohdruhhkpdhinhgvthepuddtrdduuddtrddufedruddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeofihjghhopgdutddttdelsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoegrrhgthhhithgvtghtuhhrvgdqughishgtuhhsshesihgvthhfrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeoihgrsgesihgrsgdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtvdhtrhhgsehirhhtfhdrohhrgheqnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Received: from webmail35.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.13.1) by rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5AF32848062E167A; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:05:13 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1532016314; bh=FfD75kQp+X6r799hqCVoO3Q7bSjakQnkduKlT3CphSc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=OvAC0qkHRpckIf522GTluj1BCZIztUiZQVadao0HCvdGZFg7i3anRP+X7neFcxgyxw9KLMPMSQ64WpJiqHwg+VUURRnW+NcamaQRShIEVaOI+lGm+Fv61yPveLL/V+FDYWWyk3neaQmAI8o99N2ACU2qXTRHAJPr2grkDm0nAz8= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:05:13 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org, iab@iab.org Message-ID: <22416260.34847.1532016313075.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-UID: 48554 X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: INBOX X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: X-CP-REPLY-ALL-PATH: Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.178.0.47] Epoch[1532016313039] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Paragraph about Translation in section 3 (from Call for Comment: Report from the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 2016) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:05:22 -0000 Hi In section 3 there is a paragraph immediately below a heading that is labelled Translation. > The working assumption is that devices need to have a common data model with a priori knowledge of data types and actions. However that would imply that each consortium/organization will try to define their own, causing a major interoperability problem, if not a completely intractable one given the amount of variations, extensions, compositions or versioning changes that will happen on a per data model basis. I am new to Internet of Things research, but to me the first sentence does not imply the second sentence. Am I missing something? My thinking is that yes, it is possible that "each consortium/organization will try to define their own" but why would that necessarily cause "a major interoperability problem, if not a completely intractable one given the amount of variations, extensions, compositions or versioning changes that will happen on a per data model basis."? I remember back in the late 1980s learning some of the Ada programming language so as to be able to help students learning Ada: some needed help, some did not. I seem to remember there was a concept of modules that could have public externally-accessible data variables and methods; and private internal data variables and methods. In practice a module usually had very few public externally-accessible data variables and methods; and more private internal data variables and methods. Could such a situation of a similar sort of structure be used for things on the Internet of things, in that how a thing works internally is up to the manufacturer but the format of how the thing sends messages and the format of messages that it is required to receive are standardized at a manufacturer-independent level? If that could be done, it could obviate a lot of interoperability issues. An everyday analogy is that I am typing this email on a Lenovo ideapad 510 laptop computer that is running Windows 10. Yet the fact that the content of the email is typeset using the Unicode ISO/IEC 10646 Universal Character Set means that it can be read on a different type of computer running a different type of operating system. That is, the internal workings of each computer are how they are, yet the message sent and received is in an interoperable standardized format. William Overington Thursday 19 July 2018 From raiders13@calebvalle.net.in Thu Jul 19 17:38:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F2B130F47 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=calebvalle-net-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMwxC-EdL29g for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x241.google.com (mail-yw0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A83B2130E62 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x241.google.com with SMTP id r3-v6so3772447ywc.5 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=calebvalle-net-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :to; bh=4ht9G50SlYlr7BPTCuy+KjNotHQlLEXbSKghIYlF3TI=; b=VzYeajWA/KZKCaLqzLifP53tXTnWa7pNJTY9uOhYRIMkjDwLquulKmpS4ST+XO8dXo AUG+l7GWqi3+H40aVnKRjCetybcKDMUqGV9Hf4Cd3EztSQeBH6m62ovyMmVVFUTd5eTQ +eCtbw13xxUWbB7Wt3PCW6n56i4H40VDvRi9ssXkZnRxboVfMxxoQ84MML6Y9/CpfVxH pGpU9lAmMM6TuK8Vhp1tBJEmDOygB8yCkGk76IZHi/fEy2qNT1eHPycI2J6rdeHQZj+Y c39xtpZyL1M3PT80F78iNlsxfyPf4zuxbJGaYTJ20ixIyQvpmpo5w19Hs671Vjg3d6FO bfAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:to; bh=4ht9G50SlYlr7BPTCuy+KjNotHQlLEXbSKghIYlF3TI=; b=U1VD/xgJCSYMRRKi1koHQkStLhZM82CsVp5+yJ91b6E/8DLfh4EBoQSC2MK7xq3XJr /Sr15RXfUAwDNpI6qUGYKa4vbjK7GAu3VnEr7itYspMxOJCU3vr3JSwLPGGuAFmxBBaH EskfEAvl4VQIPFspdFKbmqK6afjTEq8iDXWym9RpKYAMe1SV6+tnBxWZnDOg28WAKHJa wgdI877LoH/TqlfMeZlYY9tWk8PszbTnTf3YXVWpUK0Vt/Fg5cS6p+Phrr4MCIBCgJeL It/o+hQknHNKUTyL+YQbCRn4nDIH3DzuxkudpSyFCQQzgDLXLybb1VWU6dt56NFAQFYw jmcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlE98WyZZakcW4xnMCnDonSADzEAvEmSELHL+a3rXEfyMQPATIOE BsyAXkhMu0b8qjL2/WHbs68pIMYansfjVQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpf3qm47uGrz5IOj/az3f6bCBILSTEmp1+PE3yANUdPEznlxMOn9cZkU5Z1BccsbXKMxDyyPbQ== X-Received: by 2002:a81:a7c1:: with SMTP id e184-v6mr6499905ywh.101.1532047128589; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1700:a490:bd90:e980:3e1d:ddbf:2abf? ([2600:1700:a490:bd90:e980:3e1d:ddbf:2abf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u64-v6sm840903ywu.107.2018.07.19.17.38.47 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Victor Valle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:38:47 -0700 Message-Id: <831D05A2-46AF-435B-B2C3-82D072A75154@calebvalle.net.in> To: Architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77) Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Help finding my Domain account raiders13@calebvalle.com X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 00:39:48 -0000 Sent from my iPhone From nobody Thu Jul 19 23:16:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E612130E74 for ; 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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 23:16:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Victor Valle Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 23:16:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f383b20571683d62" Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Thanks again X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 06:16:56 -0000 --000000000000f383b20571683d62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hopefully you guys can get attention from Google G Suite about this issue and they showed little bit of decently service and verify and given me access to my Domain account because is my rights as customer that I been paying for service that I suppose should be getting instant I been paying service that only provide nothing but struggle with problems that's the name that Google G Suite should use for Domain account service G Suite specially on Domain account that requires struggle and neglected We are the best at provide the worse Domain services assistance --000000000000f383b20571683d62 Content-Type: text/html; 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Hopefully you guys can get attention from Google G Suite = about this issue and they showed little bit of decently service and verify = and given me access to my Domain account because is my rights as customer t= hat I been paying for service that I suppose should be getting instant I be= en paying service that only provide nothing but struggle with problems that= 's the name that Google G Suite should use for Domain account service G= Suite specially on Domain account that requires struggle and neglected We = are the best at provide the worse Domain services assistance
--000000000000f383b20571683d62-- From nobody Tue Jul 24 04:24:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA30130E29 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:24:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dA7zyU0b4UZ for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0604.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379F01310DF for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.12.2 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrjeeggdefkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkufggtgfgkgfrsehtjegttddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeghihhllhhirghmpgflpgfiucfqvhgvrhhinhhgthhonhcuoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucfkphepuddtrdduuddtrdduvddrvddpkeeirddujedurdduleehrdduhedtnecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopeifvggsmhgrihhltdejrdgsthdrvgigthdrtghptghlohhuugdrtghordhukhdpihhnvghtpedutddruddutddruddvrddvpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqedprhgtphhtthhopeeorghrtghhihhtvggtthhurhgvqdguihhstghushhssehivghtfhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtvdhtrhhgsehirhhtfhdrohhrgheqnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Received: from webmail07.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.12.2) by rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5B449A770170F8D0; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 12:24:04 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1532431445; bh=pctMSXGiWeA69dB5S3kAVjZDDfeLxvNiSZZc7TY57lM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version; b=WMgaQuqdVDgiyv2kogMMZ18Z4KHEb4+uxpLR4/YHMGWbOCpw+AFoJbccJkxulh6DBBV9HPDfbhVbmg32uZKRhGs5wT7v7oT3FHOIAQVeYLMh7+gBwUOpwIzpqbwjlaVhtMakQPifrLZSTJFOcibaNRroYHAhqOYaDChEBlTrdik= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 12:24:04 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org Message-ID: <21052789.20803.1532431444261.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.171.195.150] Epoch[1532431444237] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Can some Internet of Things things work using infrared links similar to those used for television remote control technology please? X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:24:07 -0000 Can some Internet of Things things work using infrared links similar to those used for television remote control technology please? Can, or could, infrared links similar to those used for television remote control technology be used so that a wifi link is not needed? Could "going round corners where line-of-sight does not go" be done using an infrared repeater unit using fibre optic cable to allow the information link to go from one room to another room without needing a wifi link? William Overington Tuesday 24 July 2018 From nobody Tue Jul 24 07:39:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79984130E9D for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:39:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uvsTC1p7dbVb for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seine.is.ed.ac.uk (seine.is.ed.ac.uk [129.215.17.202]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B63B130EFC for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.202.41]) by seine.is.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.6) with ESMTP id w6OEdKcq018341 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:39:20 +0100 Received: from troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.25.32]) by crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w6OEdIH6018743 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:39:19 +0100 Received: from troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w6OEdJak025474 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:39:19 +0100 Received: (from ht@localhost) by troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id w6OEdIof025473; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:39:18 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk: ht set sender to ht@inf.ed.ac.uk using -f To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:39:18 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1012 (Gnus v5.10.12) XEmacs/21.5-b34 (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Edinburgh-Scanned: at seine.is.ed.ac.uk with MIMEDefang 2.84, Sophie, Sophos Anti-Virus, Clam AntiVirus X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 129.215.17.202 Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] What's up with the Decentralized Web Summit 2018? X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:39:28 -0000 I'm not great with name recognition, but looking at the speaker and attendance lists for this event (31/7--2/8, San Francisco, hosted by the Internet Archive) [1], I don't see anyone who I recognise from the IETF, nor does anyone list their affiliation as the IETF, which I find a bit. . .odd. Are there components of what might become the Decentralized Web already submitted to the IETF in some form? I don't see any sign of IPFS [2] coming here, for instance... Ah, it does at least say "Some day we will hopefully transform these specs into RFCs" in their github specs repo [3]. I do understand we don't control who brings their work to us, but _if_ this is something which is going to get real traction, it might be better to be involved sooner rather than later. Or am I confused in thinking this is any of our business? Thanks, ht [1] https://decentralizedweb.net/ [2] https://ipfs.io/ [3] https://github.com/ipfs/specs -- Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam] From nobody Tue Jul 24 08:05:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B75B130E96 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:05:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADAHe0nb2P5v for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (mx4.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:2::4:12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3B56130F03 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D5B428019D; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 500) id 1786028031A; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay01.prive.nic.fr (relay01.prive.nic.fr [IPv6:2001:67c:2218:15::11]) by mx4.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103AE28019D; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from b12.nic.fr (b12.users.prive.nic.fr [10.10.86.133]) by relay01.prive.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9F6642A7A1; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by b12.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EAAA3400AD; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:05:43 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: "Henry S. Thompson" Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180724150543.smupeo6ruqd4hur4@nic.fr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 9.5 X-Kernel: Linux 4.9.0-6-amd64 x86_64 X-Charlie: Je suis Charlie Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000892, version=1.2.2 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.0.2142326, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2018.7.24.145416 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] What's up with the Decentralized Web Summit 2018? X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:05:49 -0000 On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 03:39:18PM +0100, Henry S. Thompson wrote a message of 35 lines which said: > I don't see anyone who I recognise from the IETF, nor does anyone > list their affiliation as the IETF, which I find a bit. . .odd. Well, IETF is not a home, unlike the W3C, nobody (except the IAD?) works "at IETF". The only name I know from the IETF is Wendy Seltzer who is quite active at IETF. > Are there components of what might become the Decentralized Web > already submitted to the IETF in some form? Most IETF protocols are decentralized but, true, stuff like IPFS or BitTorrent or Ethereum are typically not at the IETF today. > I do understand we don't control who brings their work to us, but > _if_ this is something which is going to get real traction, it might > be better to be involved sooner rather than later. Also, it seems this summit is not entirely technical. I see in the speakers people with titles like "strategy guru", which seems to imply there is some "high-level" talk. From nobody Tue Jul 24 08:16:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE3C131120 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mjmontpetit-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FW0NV_9iUQYe for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E650130DC0 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id s198-v6so8118550oih.11 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mjmontpetit-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+iUfbJfrErB6hHoBoBRbOladmW0Bx5mpUIt7WpFNwR4=; b=w9IXroSe4FLUmbyq8Old9CDpZrLR9Qa7E9egtHj1imeU93wle5qa7ULc1BlnOhXxl+ vHhqIm61jIAPN/9BKZvcylY4lJtPrH2mOsJCBbNKYsA/eXI2IB7pr2LRApMRrVQGw+Cz bsMAZgqCPUr3FJHzeYjhreETD+KJRzXLY1oPZfU9uLKpDchs336v8zpQ8kP8GSrAOXjx gNB5Uvf7KmiliHpz3ig9nshY4LdgzcJZ8+y8pIzwhcT+olqbnnJc//yzk9Lm7nPxXS9u h8hQgVnMQMPHwX2j/8IFrDsANDon/4H02Qh6g3urm1XDsl+bBMsSnxn5Qwb5iV2yniCw gkIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+iUfbJfrErB6hHoBoBRbOladmW0Bx5mpUIt7WpFNwR4=; b=ARE6nsWoYN1vjCmMtWAbjN2ActG3zT0nRlQerXU8fZYO3QwiNoRtUuzUROXVZgCtFb 4uIPsepYM0ZMiokr4oT/97JpBCulrbBJ8Fr4jJW3qmwxrG4R0Y7XoEVQoYGrVDvS0Ggm fhI5M4QC3/ZNVa8RdUbAeIoH6DFTyexiKoknhAsanAXgDCj3UnvtQSoKk23uoujaD8jT WmHfON6dVBpQOKQxV2yHXxD0MBdjkdNRTGO0IafAmAgIcIB9zFx1puSMRI+D1Vp6AEhJ sgSScEWiEOxP9vk5vufKmVZDdVXdX1kO+HEt2frg/pec69JXCtjFdr6uADTKNdqIDdhS dqKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGrlr6r1zZ+2iboJQzzXBZBIw8gRdHHLUsFiQY2tNoh+1zh5DTk WRAiVCIwALwNMxP4KtrWflBQkxNCf4ejUg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcYVnQ0ZyrHowJbDlCL+pv0/v4GinoVwLPcbjj45ubjGP0LZ7AP/c9HpJ++C8Zr5IZ6cjhNBA== X-Received: by 2002:aca:c351:: with SMTP id t78-v6mr3384599oif.338.1532445366473; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:380:b93f:d8db:c569:1470:4ea2:6777? ([2600:380:b93f:d8db:c569:1470:4ea2:6777]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p4-v6sm13522417oig.43.2018.07.24.08.16.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Marie-Jose Montpetit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77) In-Reply-To: <20180724150543.smupeo6ruqd4hur4@nic.fr> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:16:04 -0400 Cc: "Henry S. Thompson" , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2CA20423-9D9A-40D7-A86F-75E229EAC7E2@mjmontpetit.com> References: <20180724150543.smupeo6ruqd4hur4@nic.fr> To: Stephane Bortzmeyer Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] What's up with the Decentralized Web Summit 2018? X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:16:12 -0000 There is a decentralized network proposed research group in the IRTF (dinrg)= . And I agree these =E2=80=98Summits=E2=80=99 are often top level even marketi= ng oriented. mjm Marie-Jos=C3=A9 Montpetit marie@mjmontpetit.com mariejo@mit.edu > On Jul 24, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrot= e: >=20 > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 03:39:18PM +0100, > Henry S. Thompson wrote=20 > a message of 35 lines which said: >=20 >> I don't see anyone who I recognise from the IETF, nor does anyone >> list their affiliation as the IETF, which I find a bit. . .odd. >=20 > Well, IETF is not a home, unlike the W3C, nobody (except the IAD?) > works "at IETF". >=20 > The only name I know from the IETF is Wendy Seltzer who is quite > active at IETF. >=20 >> Are there components of what might become the Decentralized Web >> already submitted to the IETF in some form? >=20 > Most IETF protocols are decentralized but, true, stuff like IPFS or > BitTorrent or Ethereum are typically not at the IETF today. >=20 >> I do understand we don't control who brings their work to us, but >> _if_ this is something which is going to get real traction, it might >> be better to be involved sooner rather than later. >=20 > Also, it seems this summit is not entirely technical. I see in the > speakers people with titles like "strategy guru", which seems to imply > there is some "high-level" talk. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss From nobody Tue Jul 24 08:43:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19F3130EE0 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nomountain-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QrcH49OrlPOo for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22c.google.com (mail-ua0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DA16131193 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id x24-v6so3047809ual.10 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomountain-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wSxu/InAdm8D7UBlDLzhc7j+mnjZWA6H9xj1jem8LKM=; b=SNUqKJfoQ6dUeWxpfztDL4HZ1gJ2nnei94BJ68Nn3tAhOkytuoU3WZIP2fNfsNdvBD rU9yZfjcJd8O0eeWBRdG6gmleAYJgNw99a397O9xowRAXIN7uciUwvlQbEHMJtOLmD40 qhY9b0INRmxSfjhTOxXCdukdcNQ3bif4Oo/q7TDBfSrEcP2ttXhnnYKyQAU07GAQFYTX Q7K1oI9IM3hKoows7ERDXoV3+DI6OyCa8qymDJ8/q8rFUXZx3aKnAr8LX5Ftw2XBbwAP OLXhVPiLGrPIXJFF1WKaG4HKpNhVgSSDHSjSapRDfqQxeXMiHwGziLwDGcpVtMRqNnUK GR/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=wSxu/InAdm8D7UBlDLzhc7j+mnjZWA6H9xj1jem8LKM=; b=p/CG2+XgALWlr4MJNEc3g6FcJ6Pdgazv5zXZb0vbXNRPv9ECX9MpjCIl8GnCOB4uBG dz3GklwM2mUxFQTBs5PT6j8EBnPFzODgtuP38IuxVn4NcSFVn5+jvHtapBnJo0tiY1vR +XVNw2OcNG4i6krXaSBDZDJiU4o0OSH3Xf/cVVE/3gSryKEoQWfsMjAoqeBqLvFs2TYE VouYBI3Xm+dybM4fQM3RHTfCsmt4yDsYWMr39aTBL+j3Sy/9KsjAbaTdJYnTDZOu9bO2 uXN21N4hAzaXl0PCU2qZcR8e6VUMD1TElNndxY5Pz7/QGQsgMV0e0o2grAr+0Z/nz9yq uELg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlG/0BCKJezUkryKyhgJr8c8uk2Xhjaj4aZfnSNYmqvl+Jrcsrud Cp7APeHQ7InVEAvAEAYlfCzXJ2kW9fq4uci0xrDJDJk1RQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcEX/SzPNJJX3MpxVKR4+fGB2Mfe7pvr6wUl58/smbUWRjgjtrP/dYUXVyzxbDGLKwXpNeqg6Nwev5sM18vqRM= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:6a6:: with SMTP id g35-v6mr12226807uag.16.1532446988067; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:43:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20180724150543.smupeo6ruqd4hur4@nic.fr> <2CA20423-9D9A-40D7-A86F-75E229EAC7E2@mjmontpetit.com> In-Reply-To: <2CA20423-9D9A-40D7-A86F-75E229EAC7E2@mjmontpetit.com> From: Melinda Shore Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:42:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005c779c0571c09ea3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] What's up with the Decentralized Web Summit 2018? X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:43:16 -0000 --0000000000005c779c0571c09ea3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I took a look at the program a few weeks ago and it didn't seem particularly in-scope for the IETF. There are, on the other hand, a number of academic conferences on decentralized technologies in which the work is closer to the sorts of things we look at, but is unquestionably research. The IETF doesn't do topical work, per se, but rather works on specific and narrowly-scoped deliverables. We haven't seen very much decentralized technology coming in that would fall into that category, although I do expect that (in the IRTF) dinrg, if chartered, will publish a consensus protocol as an experimental standard. Melinda On Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 11:16 Marie-Jose Montpetit wrote: > There is a decentralized network proposed research group in the IRTF > (dinrg). > > And I agree these =E2=80=98Summits=E2=80=99 are often top level even mark= eting oriented. > > mjm > > Marie-Jos=C3=A9 Montpetit > marie@mjmontpetit.com > mariejo@mit.edu > > > On Jul 24, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer > wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 03:39:18PM +0100, > > Henry S. Thompson wrote > > a message of 35 lines which said: > > > >> I don't see anyone who I recognise from the IETF, nor does anyone > >> list their affiliation as the IETF, which I find a bit. . .odd. > > > > Well, IETF is not a home, unlike the W3C, nobody (except the IAD?) > > works "at IETF". > > > > The only name I know from the IETF is Wendy Seltzer who is quite > > active at IETF. > > > >> Are there components of what might become the Decentralized Web > >> already submitted to the IETF in some form? > > > > Most IETF protocols are decentralized but, true, stuff like IPFS or > > BitTorrent or Ethereum are typically not at the IETF today. > > > >> I do understand we don't control who brings their work to us, but > >> _if_ this is something which is going to get real traction, it might > >> be better to be involved sooner rather than later. > > > > Also, it seems this summit is not entirely technical. I see in the > > speakers people with titles like "strategy guru", which seems to imply > > there is some "high-level" talk. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Architecture-discuss mailing list > > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > --0000000000005c779c0571c09ea3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I took a look at the program a few weeks ago and it didn&= #39;t seem particularly in-scope for the IETF.=C2=A0 There are, on the othe= r hand, a number of academic conferences on decentralized technologies in w= hich the work is closer to the sorts of things we look at, but is unquestio= nably research.

The IETF doesn= 't do topical work, per se, but rather works on specific and narrowly-s= coped deliverables.=C2=A0 We haven't seen very much decentralized techn= ology coming in that would fall into that category, although I do expect th= at (in the IRTF) dinrg, if chartered, will publish a consensus protocol as = an experimental standard.

Melinda

On Tue= , Jul 24, 2018, 11:16 Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> wrote:
There is a decentralized network proposed research group in = the IRTF (dinrg).

And I agree these =E2=80=98Summits=E2=80=99 are often top level even market= ing oriented.

mjm

Marie-Jos=C3=A9 Montpetit
marie@mjmontpetit.com
mar= iejo@mit.edu

> On Jul 24, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr= > wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 03:39:18PM +0100,
> Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote
> a message of 35 lines which said:
>
>> I don't see anyone who I recognise from the IETF, nor does any= one
>> list their affiliation as the IETF, which I find a bit. . .odd. >
> Well, IETF is not a home, unlike the W3C, nobody (except the IAD?)
> works "at IETF".
>
> The only name I know from the IETF is Wendy Seltzer who is quite
> active at IETF.
>
>> Are there components of what might become the Decentralized Web >> already submitted to the IETF in some form?
>
> Most IETF protocols are decentralized but, true, stuff like IPFS or > BitTorrent or Ethereum are typically not at the IETF today.
>
>> I do understand we don't control who brings their work to us, = but
>> _if_ this is something which is going to get real traction, it mig= ht
>> be better to be involved sooner rather than later.
>
> Also, it seems this summit is not entirely technical. I see in the
> speakers people with titles like "strategy guru", which seem= s to imply
> there is some "high-level" talk.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Architecture-discuss mailing list
> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/architecture-discuss

_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/architecture-discuss
--0000000000005c779c0571c09ea3-- From nobody Wed Jul 25 12:31:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB1C130DD8 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=calebvalle-net-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6L9NCROVHciy for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A92FD130ED9 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id l10-v6so15964289oii.0 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=calebvalle-net-in.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lV2mMgM5CQO+GISkSXSrXQlbaNB5vFPhhdzXrbt7qlY=; b=vHfoqCbOi5ZlPxiynbYuhRacbh/+2+yQuqEn8ZseW12Vwwv3e5MFTeiXE2y01WknML 6JDTA2OpggSg9tl//oWTL74JGUkxn6uO6UoSWwAljRJjKfa9in6+b3FE2Mq5KXrzsI34 E7lLF9U32BPeA0l3QHS4fnI9W/Sl0WYY+tVLCZ2ohVDC4PnZ9MP2qiavmfxBBFeAYqKJ PVPXJwW1eQpVdMpvh1cMiiGBs3pvLf4YnH86+nS5ecKBH/zrpZPeQ4d+XGExMabMNSJd twud1qdbypoRAk8y4oK/F3mpqT5eYn1RlpxM55BANq9d6da6sIoaLjRs/CtJM2F/Gl4j ozdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lV2mMgM5CQO+GISkSXSrXQlbaNB5vFPhhdzXrbt7qlY=; b=UTUQF+lkZWxGyeLJ5DWFM6JHXD3ZuLFtjxh1B7HM+k+6i5vVtPcrH2KyiHAMP3jsIM 8aebIbTBXUvtTWzw27w0vWF8zBGQPGSHHhV88XCcxNGifGhekucHpsNPfesr7u82anD0 iw8NM+hPCG2wabBmqIkb/SlupCctBv3ZjpHIT71e608Fp1PPPuiPbWLJKkNjfmBCclME oxPwvnqzVdxjxjyzQZ8cw8JRVTp/B7Cg6AvpV8SYEGYepJXwJ1iRUI4yVYPO+Eq3mQYn 4U/8B8dQ3+wZmCOY01RX1SplhleTq13Qce5f3E45SNIdFZ1tgGTpxMjjckv+Ifz9+nrC NsUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHmvvBa7dJKnu+nzjNd2Fx6EtPabeREcXZd7TwnlI/ubLkwpOMk b9Nkbj/G38DbbsS+vZ8inLAhbZWeVd9qHvlbAXtbCcs57KA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpci2tUHvWwKdZBcNCmjUiEDYASfzV70MZxloRFjffE4lO/m/eo1mlBzzWXpFZL7GiLhD9kHyqHr+7a3FUgVlbk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:5754:: with SMTP id l81-v6mr5121444oib.100.1532547081737; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Victor Valle Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:31:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000068aa960571d7ec6b" Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] raiders13@calebvalle.com X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:31:24 -0000 --00000000000068aa960571d7ec6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Find and verify my email account google G Suite is blocking access to my account out the Sutter and till this moment I don't know the reason I been asking sending email and they don't do anything about they sending links that don't work and they new because they still denim me --00000000000068aa960571d7ec6b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Find and verify my email account google G Suite is blockin= g access to my account out the Sutter and till this moment I don't know= the reason I been asking sending email and they don't do anything abou= t they sending links that don't work and they new because they still de= nim me=C2=A0
--00000000000068aa960571d7ec6b-- From nobody Tue Jul 31 07:33:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDAA130E7E for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DC_PNG_UNO_LARGO=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Co7fY9JjxGJJ for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout02.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout02.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.179]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31F9130DC1 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.12.2 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrledtgdehkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtggkrfesmhdttggstddtjeenucfhrhhomhephghilhhlihgrmhgplfgpifcuqfhvvghrihhnghhtohhnuceofihjghhopgdutddttdelsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepuddtrdduuddtrdduvddrvddpkeeirddujedvrddvfeeirdelfeenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghlohepfigvsghmrghilhdtledrsghtrdgvgihtrdgtphgtlhhouhgurdgtohdruhhkpdhinhgvthepuddtrdduuddtrdduvddrvddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeofihjghhopgdutddttdelsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoegrrhgthhhithgvtghtuhhrvgdqughishgtuhhsshesihgvthhfrdhorhhgqedprhgtphhtthhopeeoihgrsgesihgrsgdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehtvdhtrhhgsehirhhtfhdrohhrgheqnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Received: from webmail09.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.12.2) by rgout02.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5AF326F907933B16; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:33:39 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1533047621; bh=VWdDAyYHjfDwQckOKlcYE5jdnj0j2Opcqqsa0hjVrSM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=UKwnS3I9q9vmuLrI3yteoiTvXJDu3ZUonpvaX+jcx2xYH6BVdx2QZ/NVgVAGqeqa1sbizjavrSLdWN2zmVNLLukKMcAiGtsr4m4NEmfV2O/ONsBV3i0c9Q4cC2H0uplZ9VICQHszpb94uw+48S80Q8Q8NpaLmCcJnyJXOuwkah8= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:33:39 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab@iab.org, t2trg@irtf.org Message-ID: <3461244.30339.1533047619611.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_30338_5262863.1533047619580" Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.172.236.93] Epoch[1533047619580] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Call for Comment: Report from the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 2016 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:33:43 -0000 ------=_Part_30338_5262863.1533047619580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Further to my posts of 17 July 2018 and 19 July 2018 I have been thinking of how to express my ideas in a diagram. Here are links to the earlier posts. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/architecture-discuss/current/msg01372.html https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/architecture-discuss/current/msg01374.html I noted the Red Star used in the original document upon which we are commenting. I wondered how my ideas could be expressed using a logo. I have now decided that in order to express my ideas, a collection of logos is needed, with each individual logo based upon a basic design. The basic design is to have a square with a black border and that the square is divided within its boundary vertically into two equal halves by an invisible line. The area to one side of the invisible line (it can be either side as desired so as to make diagrams clearer) is always green. (r=0, g=255, b=0) This is to represent the part of the device that communicates with other devices at application level using localizable sentences encoded using a sequence of Unicode characters starting with an integral sign and followed by a number of circled digit characters. The area to the other side of the invisible line is in a colour other than green, so as to represent the part of the device that has manufacturer-chosen software and data structures. I am wondering whether this mailing list and its archives support attachments. So I have produced an experimental diagram both to test that and also to show an example diagram representing two devices, each made by a different manufacturer, communicating with each other using localizable sentences. The picture has two devices with a red line connecting them. 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DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yTWOpyY1A3wg for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 08:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout0806.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0806.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F98130E20 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 08:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-OWM-Source-IP: 10.110.12.2 () X-OWM-Env-Sender: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=20/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 20 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtiedrledtgdejudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgotffhvedqqdeurggukfhmphhorhhtrghntggvucdlvddtmdenucfjughrpeffhfhrvffkjghfufggtggkrfesmhdttggstddtjeenucfhrhhomhephghilhhlihgrmhgplfgpifcuqfhvvghrihhnghhtohhnuceofihjghhopgdutddttdelsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqnecukfhppedutddruddutddruddvrddvpdekiedrudejvddrvdefiedrleefnecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopeifvggsmhgrihhludefrdgsthdrvgigthdrtghptghlohhuugdrtghordhukhdpihhnvghtpedutddruddutddruddvrddvpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeifjhhgohgpuddttddtleessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqedprhgtphhtthhopeeorghrtghhihhtvggtthhurhgvqdguihhstghushhssehivghtfhdrohhrgheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehirggssehirggsrdhorhhgqeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt Received: from webmail13.bt.ext.cpcloud.co.uk (10.110.12.2) by rgout08.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as wjgo_10009@btinternet.com) id 5AF3282C0785B875; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 16:39:48 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1533051589; bh=PW1jGwRP3HqrEadvloV9m23FxB4/2ZMvOMnmcf05LAE=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version; b=afrNXduJHP0opz6S3+Its3WksPOf5JSNQUeDYep0/gHy17mHvpdkvUHzwvWQCA1iITx0qy270Lar1Dj+sWFE4NE3BtmoLgdJ9EDwkBDSNbvCP7VHvUyiwwwQsFf0iJId/DZhu+UQtaL3oxApsMgcwUNPMSCpY1FE6uRmr7BXYiE= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 16:39:48 +0100 (BST) From: William_J_G Overington Reply-To: wjgo_10009@btinternet.com To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab@iab.org Message-ID: <9342865.35207.1533051588968.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> In-Reply-To: <22866176.34913.1533051294104.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <153175124288.21751.4163443271295991984.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2899520.11180.1531820809158.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> <3461244.30339.1533047619611.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> <22866176.34913.1533051294104.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_35206_22113299.1533051588939" Importance: 3 (Normal) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Client-IP: IPv4[86.172.236.93] Epoch[1533051588940] Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Call for Comment: Report from the Internet of Things (IoT) Semantic Interoperability (IOTSI) Workshop 2016 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:39:57 -0000 ------=_Part_35206_22113299.1533051588939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Following my post earlier today and finding that I can include a diagram as an attachment and that the diagram is stored in the archive, I have now produced another diagram that represents five devices, each from a different manufacturer, able to communicate each with the others at application level. William Overington Tuesday 31 July 2018 ------=_Part_35206_22113299.1533051588939 Content-Type: image/png; name=architecture_diagram.png Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=architecture_diagram.png iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA+cAAAWpCAIAAACUHvTNAAAKPmlDQ1BQcm9maWxlAAB4AZ2Wd1BU yRbG+947OZBmGAEJQ04SJQwgOScJkkVhmBlgCAMOMyQxIaKCK4qKJEWQRREXXF0BWSOiGFgUFTAv yENAWRdXERWVd2etEt6r2n2vtv/o+vXXX1efPufcqgsAxcuPL0iDZQBIFYiEwZ4uzIjIKCa+F8CA CHDADAA2JyPdf4VHCECHt7srMwM1SXh+vBsAkGR118grkMmc1/8vkuWkC0UAQIGoeymXl8FBuQDl lCxRukSfQpkelyxhGCNhIRogygoSTvjKS/70fGUnCXNTBVzUE4JyOjeVK+EulLdlinkoI34oF2by eVko30NZK0Wcykf5Pcr0VB47AwAMRaKLeJxElE1RpghDgl1RXgYAgZKwgOMWsIiXLUK9wDUtPUfI T0gUMfU4+kwzGxsW04uXlcITiYwC2ZxktpDLdE1LTWcLcgD4+mbJKSAnyS0TTbKVmY2VlZG5MZr+ b+NvN7+5/h4ktf3qeBP0Z80gRs+8Nn92XkurA4A1jeZm17wWVwFA2xYAFB7Oa1qHAJAuAKD11oL3 MCT9kigSpduamGRlZRnzeRxjSUK/jf9p+Ob8a1hwn7Hkvm+5Y7rx4tniFBFTklROWkqaWMjMSGdz 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