From nobody Wed May 6 00:43:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B437A3A041E for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 00:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RM3YG2G1IsoP for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 00:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x236.google.com (mail-oi1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8CB23A041A for ; 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Wed, 06 May 2020 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:4809:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 6 May 2020 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <728f9b75-382f-733c-d308-b5ba5101110b@gmail.com> References: <20200428190608.GN62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20200428211737.GP62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20200428222219.GQ62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <728f9b75-382f-733c-d308-b5ba5101110b@gmail.com> From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:42:52 +0700 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, discussion-papers@elists.isoc.org Cc: Stephen Farrell , Andrew Campling , Toerless Eckert , Ian Peter , cabo@tzi.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d5e2305a4f5e986" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 07:43:00 -0000 --0000000000005d5e2305a4f5e986 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Brian, Carsten, Toerless, architecture-discuss, & discussion-papers, An institutional collaborative platforms by the IETF and the ISOC working on IP design : * Carsten Bormann on the IETF liaisons on "New IP" (8Apr2020): =E2=80=A6 and you can find one thoughtful piece of discussion from the IETF= chair at the unlikely place of https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1677/ https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/owxIyFzSzTMFPDqF= mXzfBGhwRRU/ ** Toerless Eckert on "Discussion Paper on An Analysis of the New IP Proposal to the ITU-T" worked by the Internet Society (The1st of this thread): https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-anal= ysis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/ https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/NdNoxMpGbOsh7bBz= OkDSRkp2QH8/ Thus, there is a collaborative platform which is about the IETF and the ISOC working together on "New IP": - institutional collaborations for Internet Standard Process : Those are in accordance with what are mentioned in RFC 2026 which is especially about the ISOC having important role in "Internet Standard Process" together with other organizations involved in in the Internet standard process mentioned in RFC 2028 (IETF, IETF WG, IETF Sec, ISOC, IAB, IESG, IANA, IRTF) "...The Internet Standards process is an activity of the Internet Society that is organized and managed on behalf of the Internet community by the Internet Architecture Board (IAB) and the Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG)". (RFC 2026 -- Internet Standard Process sec. 1. Introduction p. 3) https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2026.txt "The Internet Society (ISOC) is an international organization concerned with the growth and evolution of the worldwide Internet and with the social, political, and technical issues that arise from its use... Internet standardization is an organized activity of the ISOC, with the Board of Trustees being responsible for ratifying the procedures and rules of the Internet standards process [B]". (RFC 2028 sec. 3 "Key organization involved in the process" p. 4) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2028 Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Jumat, 01 Mei 2020, Brian E Carpenter menulis: > On 01-May-20 01:54, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > > Hiya, > > > > On 30/04/2020 14:49, Andrew Campling wrote: > >> In addition to the public mailing list that ISOC has subsequently > >> created > >> (https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion-papers/), is > >> there a suitable forum for discussion of the "New IP" proposal within > >> the IETF (noting from earlier debate that the Architecture-discuss > >> list is technically an IAB one)? > > I'm confused. Why does it matter if arch-d is an IAB list? > > > > Seems to me that this is a reasonable list for discussion > > of Internet architecture. > > As I have argued in my recent rant, the IETF (which of course appoints > the IAB members) is probably the best venue we have. And the IAB's > job description includes A for Architecture. So yes, as long as we > don't imagine ourselves to have any power of decision. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > --0000000000005d5e2305a4f5e986 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Brian, Carsten, Toerless,=C2=A0
architecture-discuss, &
di= scussion-papers,



An in= stitutional collaborative platforms by the IETF and the ISOC working on IP = design :


* Carsten Bormann on the IETF liaisons on "New IP" (8Apr2020):
=E2=80=A6 and you can find one thoughtful piece of discussion from the IETF= chair at the unlikely place of https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1677/

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture= -discuss/owxIyFzSzTMFPDqFmXzfBGhwRRU/

** Toerless Eckert on "Discussion Paper on An Analysis of the New IP P= roposal to the ITU-T" worked by the Internet Society (The1st of this t= hread):

https://www.internets= ociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-analysis-of-the-new-ip-pr= oposal-to-the-itu-t/

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture= -discuss/NdNoxMpGbOsh7bBzOkDSRkp2QH8/


Thus,

there is a collaborative platform which is about the IETF and the ISOC work= ing together on "New IP":

- institutional collaborations for Internet Standard Process : Those are in= accordance with what are mentioned in RFC 2026 which is especially about t= he ISOC having important role in "Internet Standard Process" toge= ther with other organizations involved in in the Internet standard process = mentioned in RFC 2028 (IETF, IETF WG, IETF Sec, ISOC, IAB, IESG, IANA, IRTF= )

"...The Internet Standards process is an activity of the Internet Soci= ety that is organized and managed on behalf of the Internet community by th= e Internet Architecture Board (IAB) and the Internet Engineering Steering G= roup (IESG)".

(RFC 2026 -- Internet Standard Process

sec. 1. Introduction p. 3)

https://www.ietf.org/rfc/r= fc2026.txt

"The Internet Society (ISOC) is an international organization concerne= d with the growth and evolution of the worldwide Internet and with the soci= al, political, and technical issues that arise from its use...

Internet standardization is an organized activity of the ISOC, with the Boa= rd of Trustees being responsible for ratifying the procedures and rules of = the Internet standards process [B]".

(RFC 2028 sec. 3 "Key organization involved in the process" p. 4)=

https://tools.ietf.org/html= /rfc2028






= Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Jumat, 01 Mei 2020, Brian= E Carpenter <brian.e.car= penter@gmail.com> menulis:
On 01-M= ay-20 01:54, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>
> Hiya,
>
> On 30/04/2020 14:49, Andrew Campling wrote:
>> In addition to the public mailing list that ISOC has subsequently<= br> >> created
>> (https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/disc= ussion-papers/), is
>> there a suitable forum for discussion of the "New IP" pr= oposal within
>> the IETF (noting from earlier debate that the Architecture-discuss=
>> list is technically an IAB one)?
> I'm confused. Why does it matter if arch-d is an IAB list?
>
> Seems to me that this is a reasonable list for discussion
> of Internet architecture.

As I have argued in my recent rant, the IETF (which of course appoints
the IAB members) is probably the best venue we have. And the IAB's
job description includes A for Architecture. So yes, as long as we
don't imagine ourselves to have any power of decision.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architecture-discuss@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discu= ss
--0000000000005d5e2305a4f5e986-- From nobody Fri May 8 07:25:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672463A0B04 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4HR3ADZfBv0f for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x333.google.com (mail-ot1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC3AD3A073D for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x333.google.com with SMTP id g14so1550022otg.10 for ; Fri, 08 May 2020 07:25:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7q7VVAlWIxqV6EreIa1xvw0/Ay/akpMAzY++5w+DI4U=; b=pDbyPTItthsDGrCMvTteDDSLfxLz4wuPrqfLpcgv8eBlqVmAi9SDhrJ7ZIcUXrgvSD hHzvndiyJAG13mgvwsLZB6vEva63A8PY29PIvtmAPi1hCw9m8VD4lgdaGhcBM1ejlxge ob2jV1ZU9a55eJVmPY8e7YLgizuX7pMHSwAXEnrqHceYWMSu/stj8d7Kyr6Em6cuqUr0 hIw2vJCbaHQoQ2LWK2R5b+Rf8yGCDTHh/TixJMS3YFAYZ1f2RZJstyM0HqHsw4Vy+VKz imr23F07uZkSUFQB4eCeXW2VW0cTTngkOXzS4Cte2u/xsHernsuvfJRHC3X6O+TKTe6I GjCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7q7VVAlWIxqV6EreIa1xvw0/Ay/akpMAzY++5w+DI4U=; b=oelvHkuZ5KY8xGV/FBmn29Lzm0S1zBb1Unup0l33NNcksgkk2gIFAzCRbNBXNAtLWE +WD+MH9uof+ca97F1x5h4YG1+CtV1n0l2jytID8mb55/QPBOpdsv3s7uk0ASz3Khoocy YWLx/LAxw/UR7ETG9q4fzztearKz8E0bf+Wfw5i7snmk1xhltGcKN2nVzQyJ+NsopueB xl4ZkngVlP0fYQoSveRiHfhgIMjewThwFHuXPe5yReFb1QUimT0zuA+NWwXvFZtF9Ras B+F7YJNbeJP6tFQADIO8glBbq2WDza0iXBVyL34oHz+utdORPBzuVlVSqY1Wvq5G5WPo wpJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubDZxcVplLNvwn4kVYJ3t9W/pSCeX7EuW+QS3nbyKpAno/HkIbl 5BaWY9/trAyNHmo1Al6pgf09cAhn0AeeAWTOkwZVCw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIM+ML897tRYSKiwRG0zhOGA53dI0lpX0nQeAltZtK2arNglqva4bACj4Fz/SYrinzf3wXyb3Af2GkY9NjMhgE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1613:: with SMTP id g19mr2379184otr.284.1588947902021; Fri, 08 May 2020 07:25:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:4809:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 21:25:01 +0700 Message-ID: To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004442f305a523c38c" Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 14:25:07 -0000 --0000000000004442f305a523c38c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear architecture-discuss, "The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" I red the ISOC's page of news blog --while there are other ones-- on current happening "Covid -19 Pandemic" "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet"? (08 April 2020) https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-glo bal-pandemic-mean-for-the-internet/ If we may change slightly the title with "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet ARCHITECTURE"? Supposedly it takes us to a notion on "The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" --it refers not only to the current Covid-19 pandemic but other possible pandemic/emergencies/crises. Here perhaps engineers/architects with such passions and skills: Currently it is published by the ISOC Foundation: Emergency Response Grant Programme: COVID-19 Dead line: May 17th https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency- response-grant-programme-covid19/ Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra --0000000000004442f305a523c38c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear architecture-discuss,



=C2=A0"The Internet Architecture for Pandem= ics/Emergencies/Crises"


I = red the ISOC's page of news blog --while there are other ones-- on curr= ent happening "Covid -19 Pandemic"

"= ;What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet"? (08 April 2020)<= /div>



<= /div>

If we may change slightly the title with=C2=A0

"What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Inter= net ARCHITECTURE"?

Supposedly it takes us= to a notion on "The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/C= rises" --it refers not only to the current Covid-19 pandemic but other= possible pandemic/emergencies/crises.

Here perhap= s engineers/architects with such passions and skills: Currently it is publi= shed by the ISOC Foundation:

Emergency Response Grant Progr= amme: COVID-19


Dead line: May 17th



Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra
--0000000000004442f305a523c38c-- From nobody Fri May 8 07:59:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01EA3A08B9 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcEcDT4Ndf2m for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D583E3A0786 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 07:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.100]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id X3iRj7KSjhufYX4T7jQvu4; Fri, 08 May 2020 14:59:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1588949957; bh=9ZUzxP6z7zlAXkL5oetUJa1J8b5pgQBb44TSU3cxv/E=; h=Received:Received:From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version: Subject:Date:To; b=ay1r5seC7FJOV3ZvSm3djWhFlfGBusTB1XYQ/QbVAbNw4+n1FY0BF9CgRsn9pJky4 RaRCPQ2FOxkFf/kIXQdUPTEXiG4jLSAytCJpfY5OfG0guYtFvjCKYybTjICz1ELUwe pBiW618rlra42iRcmBDhYisx7ecPhvU1bnVZKYMCyMefug69qdQfxmcU5NlLvBCX1E 2jviy6MHXIEJuPq5yS6Ssx8yRz6Q6SBaJEW2xYfXCh53sLIETuqLUXQQwLjloRCa7t cw/jJ3IMOYobBKBntox607EoJFBb6D5j5lehjNvkyqQMrbce55KOph0hycp6ymk7GU ByoYIh5vgfaqg== Received: from [IPv6:2601:189:4300:cee9:bdb7:b9d4:f0b6:7d35] ([IPv6:2601:189:4300:cee9:bdb7:b9d4:f0b6:7d35]) by resomta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id X4T5jFayyHgVhX4T6j8n0O; Fri, 08 May 2020 14:59:17 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit From: John Day Message-Id: <857AEB95-F552-40D0-93EB-3804AA3F32C6@comcast.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_203D6A3B-9168-4937-A2F6-077B0ACE0225" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 10:59:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org To: Guntur Wiseno Putra References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 14:59:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_203D6A3B-9168-4937-A2F6-077B0ACE0225 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 A pandemic might mean something for a configuration built to the = architecture. But if the architecture is lacking then it wasn=E2=80=99t a very good = architecture to begin with. ;-) There is a distinction between architecture and =E2=80=98buildings=E2=80=99= built to that architecture. Particular constructions can always have = problems. Architecture does not guarantee that the builders don=E2=80=99t = make mistakes. John > On May 8, 2020, at 10:25, Guntur Wiseno Putra = wrote: >=20 > Dear architecture-discuss, >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" >=20 >=20 > I red the ISOC's page of news blog --while there are other ones-- on = current happening "Covid -19 Pandemic" >=20 > "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet"? (08 April 2020) >=20 >=20 > = https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-global-pandemic-m= ean-for-the-internet/ = >=20 >=20 > If we may change slightly the title with=20 >=20 > "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet ARCHITECTURE"? >=20 > Supposedly it takes us to a notion on "The Internet Architecture for = Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" --it refers not only to the current = Covid-19 pandemic but other possible pandemic/emergencies/crises. >=20 > Here perhaps engineers/architects with such passions and skills: = Currently it is published by the ISOC Foundation: >=20 > Emergency Response Grant Programme: COVID-19 >=20 > Dead line: May 17th >=20 > = https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency-response-grant-pr= ogramme-covid19/ = >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss --Apple-Mail=_203D6A3B-9168-4937-A2F6-077B0ACE0225 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 A = pandemic might mean something for a configuration built to the = architecture.

But if = the architecture is lacking then it wasn=E2=80=99t a very good = architecture to begin with.  ;-)

There is a distinction between = architecture and =E2=80=98buildings=E2=80=99 built to that architecture. =  Particular constructions can always have problems. Architecture = does not guarantee that the builders don=E2=80=99t make = mistakes.

John

On May 8, 2020, at 10:25, = Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear = architecture-discuss,




 "The Internet = Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises"


I red the ISOC's page of news blog --while there are other = ones-- on current happening "Covid -19 Pandemic"

"What does a Global Pandemic Means for = the Internet"? (08 April 2020)


https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-global-pandemic-mean-for-the-internet/


If we may change slightly the title = with 

"What= does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet ARCHITECTURE"?

Supposedly it takes us to a notion on "The Internet = Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" --it refers not only to = the current Covid-19 pandemic but other possible = pandemic/emergencies/crises.

Here perhaps engineers/architects with = such passions and skills: Currently it is published by the ISOC = Foundation:

Emergency = Response Grant Programme: COVID-19


Dead line: May 17th

https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency-response-grant-programme-covid19/



Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra
_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_203D6A3B-9168-4937-A2F6-077B0ACE0225-- From nobody Fri May 8 08:33:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970553A0410 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:33:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nk7xcKVNkhDQ for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 818163A091F for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F865485A4; Fri, 8 May 2020 17:33:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 09A01440041; Fri, 8 May 2020 17:33:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 17:33:19 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: Guntur Wiseno Putra Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 15:33:27 -0000 Thanks, Guntur, In reading the ISOC call for proposals page, i am pretty sure that they wouldn't bother about long-term, fundamental architecture improvements as being within scope. [For example, i was appalled by the desire/need to manage Internet QoS through phone calls from heads of state to Netflix, so they would reduce pressure of video traffic onto the now more important traffic (WFH etc.). In my world, the network should itself be able to perform QoS to do that, no management by phone needed. But i am sure that OTT providers will continue to fight against that architectural evolution of the Internet with the fake argument of "net neutrality" to serve their financial bottom line.] I forwarded to manycouched and mboned because scalable, free video conferencing specifically for emergency response style large scale conferences is certinly a key tool, but to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide to innovators. Cheers Toerless On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 09:25:01PM +0700, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote: > Dear architecture-discuss, > > > > > "The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" > > > I red the ISOC's page of news blog --while there are other ones-- on > current happening "Covid -19 Pandemic" > > "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet"? (08 April 2020) > > > https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-glo > bal-pandemic-mean-for-the-internet/ > > > If we may change slightly the title with > > "What does a Global Pandemic Means for the Internet ARCHITECTURE"? > > Supposedly it takes us to a notion on "The Internet Architecture for > Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises" --it refers not only to the current Covid-19 > pandemic but other possible pandemic/emergencies/crises. > > Here perhaps engineers/architects with such passions and skills: Currently > it is published by the ISOC Foundation: > > Emergency Response Grant Programme: COVID-19 > > Dead line: May 17th > > https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency- > response-grant-programme-covid19/ > > > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Sat May 9 01:58:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090AE3A0912; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PDKIdswqG0l4; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC2883A0911; Sat, 9 May 2020 01:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (unknown [181.45.84.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7180980831; Sat, 9 May 2020 10:58:06 +0200 (CEST) References: To: architecture-discuss@iab.org, Internet Architecture Board From: Fernando Gont X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Message-ID: <07ca1532-1f89-21ee-afaf-758a8d7fe76e@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 05:55:12 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Fwd: Re: some feedback on feedback on draft-bonica-6man-ext-hdr-update-03 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 08:58:11 -0000 Heads-up for those that may care about IPv6's "architecture". -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: some feedback on feedback on draft-bonica-6man-ext-hdr-update-03 Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 01:39:57 +0200 From: Robert Raszuk To: Joel M. Halpern CC: 6man WG And even that much would wait on the resolution of the pending appeal on the topic. If we would decouple end to end IPv6 from encapsulated transport IPv6 as well as allow required flexibility in the transport part there would no longer be any basis for the appeal. Where does it say that we must wait for the result of the appeal if WG would like to propose the solution which turns the entire appeal in progress into a moot point ? Thx, R. From nobody Sat May 9 02:39:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982803A0945 for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wW_3OnaGPhzW for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19F433A0940 for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (unknown [181.45.84.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81AE980868; Sat, 9 May 2020 11:39:05 +0200 (CEST) References: To: architecture-discuss@iab.org From: Fernando Gont X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Message-ID: <464e4db4-b1a1-c51a-c734-4db52fcf9cc7@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 06:18:32 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Fwd: Use/Modification/Extensibility and Reinvention (Re: some feedback on feedback on draft-bonica-6man-ext-hdr-update-03) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 09:39:11 -0000 Heads up. This might be of interest to this group. Thanks, Fernando -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Use/Modification/Extensibility and Reinvention (Re: some feedback on feedback on draft-bonica-6man-ext-hdr-update-03) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 11:22:12 +1000 From: Mark Smith To: Robert Raszuk CC: 6man WG On Sat, 9 May 2020, 10:05 Robert Raszuk, > wrote: Any working group other than 6man will now be able to take IPv6 and modify it to suit what they want to do, ignoring the specs and the 6man WG's intent, using PSP and what SPRING has been allowed to do to justify it. And that to me sounds like a feature. The best protocols are those which are used way beyond their original author's intentions. Modifying something is not using it. I have modified blade screw drivers to suit are special purpose. They're not blade screwdrivers anymore (they're bicycle wheel spoke nipple drivers), and cannot be used as blade screwdrivers. Modifying IPv6 is not using IPv6. Experience shows that we as humans are pretty bad in predicting the future so all we can is do to define things in an extensible style such that others may ride on it. Extensibility is being able to add to something that already exists without interfering with the existing thing's operation. Modifying something that already exists and has fixed definitions, changing its behaviour, is not extensibility. There are areas where IPv6 is extensible, such as via the creation of new EHs, and other areas where it is not. If they would be denied to modify it and use it as it seems fit to realize their ideas - they would need to reinvent the wheel - not the best use of time. I don't think SPRING have tried that hard to follow this principle, because there are a number of examples where existing and proven mechanisms that work could have been used; instead reinvention occurred. uSID is trying to reinvent the purpose of the IPv6 Destination Address field, by encoding a set of multiple packet destinations in that field, despite the word "Address" being singular in RFC 8200. SRv6 Network Programming needs to reinvent IPv6 DA matching at the destination in 3. SRv6 SID because it doesn't assign SIDs (that have become IPv6 addresses) to interfaces, contrary to the RFC 4291 addressing architecture, which dictates that IPv6 addresses are assigned to interfaces not nodes. SPRING tried to reinvent the meaning of the No Next Header EH (type 59) to implicitly mean an Ethernet payload followed. SPRING needed to reinvent AH via the SRH HMAC TLV, because the operations being performed on IPv6 packets weren't compliant with RFC8200, and therefore AH couldn't be used.. There may be a 5th example I can't quite remember right now. It has seemed to me that SPRING have had too much of a "greenfield" mentality, allowing other existing specs to be taken and casually modified, rather than proposing modifications only as a last resort, when there is no other way to make the function work within existing proven mechanisms. In all these cases changing SR methods to fit within the existing would have been far less time and effort than the reinvention that has occurred or was proposed. Regards, Mark. From nobody Sat May 9 02:50:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028AD3A095F for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O0fEiKgtHw5U for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E7703A095C for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 02:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.115.161.209]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 0499niVu014420 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 9 May 2020 02:49:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589017797; x=1589104197; i=@elandsys.com; bh=NkUp7V/ewnxrIoooim4o5Tg86Hlk/pM18QU4Hynbfeg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=AMHyyvv6EqX37lALVoFUoshemYp5nt4RuDslqNgs+qFlMv1qfLI829yNtAn186omc XpSNJzP+/1EGHDfCpv+/hKQ64mVSR7ymBkkD6wKqT7/U/YRwS3BfWVDNRwTeZqlRxN p44QNK0km0QkuAF7nInXSc0epO51nyzbLquB4Qkk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200509015027.10a896c8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 02:49:23 -0700 To: Toerless Eckert , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 09:50:28 -0000 Hi Toerless, At 08:33 AM 08-05-2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: >I forwarded to manycouched and mboned because scalable, free video >conferencing >specifically for emergency response style large scale conferences is >certinly a key tool, but to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like >very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be >able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will >exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up >a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. According to the blog post, the grant is from a foundation which is based in Virginia (United States). It looks oriented for that country given that one of the requirements is 501c3 or equivalent. The track record requirement favors entities which are already established. There has to be some checks in place or else you will end up sponsoring illegal activities or inappropriate use of funds. Bureaucracy ignores genuine cases, e.g. the people you would like to help may not fulfill the requirements. It can also end up driving funding towards managing the funds instead of the actual objective. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Sat May 9 13:03:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76473A114C for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1536-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=vH3hw/t+; dkim=fail (1536-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=MfCOwDie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJ_K50kJOu6t for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 13:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 557213A114A for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 13:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4214 invoked by uid 100); 9 May 2020 20:03:49 -0000 Date: 9 May 2020 20:03:48 -0000 Message-ID: From: "John Levine" To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=106d.5eb70ca4.k2005; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=7bCem9rdIwIFXadIFOSgNDUIagLu55oN80Gf5QSjuhY=; b=vH3hw/t+Ymg6br+TsorQqD57S6tski6+ikpTW9/2ZfF1wz6fAi2BJBqx6GGdZlSyjQYbWQfE4BtACtOuNutAgI5qBJANWzunYcJAdbLEbGvVXBSffFO/hqjYfj+ZYdZmGQiFzMXwzuwTYv17kppXrHimCt0XkZwP1D7ENcl8Cc86QALx6i7rFnKd3w4zIugZVscDzOVd97OjIjcIBZzzGtLYu2f3uO98pfS/9pOKAf0PVSCSrfWSj4BCKr/UBfqw DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=106d.5eb70ca4.k2005; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=7bCem9rdIwIFXadIFOSgNDUIagLu55oN80Gf5QSjuhY=; b=MfCOwDieDDGvA761e0dS5t9BIAQ51oFYt4AAi5+7sd3TSLxrGlgXucKvN21UwXFRaXy06dhp2eKZZA/u5/s9Y/46sp+A4MbX+Ojigvmgb/6b3/sWCNxC/eXyfsc7BVv+5iU1FpHln6TArziWTWaxX6hsrcxkekJijfHJYRJfipIYXREG2N65JPylSfWkB5IN+0xBOvH6qjmDNb/kT9PPSv0Doj97EVlkVacTa/isx+nT/sq5/IkUEKer5B5gQ7gs Organization: Taughannock Networks References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Cleverness: some X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010) Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 20:03:53 -0000 In article <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>, Toerless Eckert wrote: >... to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like >very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be >able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will >exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up >a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. > >Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide >to innovators. I expect it won't be a surprise to hear that since the ISOC foundation is in the U.S., it has to follow U.S. law. Also, 501(c)(3) is not very difficult to qualify for. There are over a million registered non-profits in the U.S., and while a few are large, 75% of them have annual budgets under $50K. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sun May 10 06:55:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5D13A099C for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y6Br0LQ12Rcv for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x232.google.com (mail-oi1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A13AA3A099F for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x232.google.com with SMTP id 19so12834550oiy.8 for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3X2iXmLfAPndc8hdLjzsJIDN5nRPTV/FEUN4b6YnTEY=; b=FFbVsyg3qbO+TlQe97XmYxLvXZKKA2MyLkjiseObXJggI6A5xHFq0JhvvdfjmfAgp9 sJlrw8vjSfCHBj0kRxePmczWWHSrvHgcM1gh5DMtJK3a6klZ8i9/U7nKLWUFkGO1PfN4 fZgvUeMf9RXzgFZFJKNXot9d4PreySKtFLoki1+uxVXqMcBsbfNcR3lZC3PimVh8UWbk zz31H0uGSo3A556h/Zg/Yjfrsi5+P3aYcBPZzvLvPlkTcUgzK0ZxEhqybQvGz+XwcAOt D37Rhqn0cXyK9WoJ5SY+3IdbZc1veLfvElIt4tvp+y0skRseVWnPrcuUvIgRWhoQ91HT ez7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3X2iXmLfAPndc8hdLjzsJIDN5nRPTV/FEUN4b6YnTEY=; b=RRFjo8n6OoCBAI+ldfNN1GYmYym3x5HhzlURCNq2o9rGt2MR+FLgDtgGWKI1T7RQlm KTTGhUkck9vTf3xUYo85PfOA1DNDod/qEvzDIS9L6DzYSaVFV/jinRWyjP/wswz9bpaG X1MsqjBIPDcFu+LvuipZp4xzkMg4Yuvl3naADKWfqR95evLKf/65sravu5Eh7DLJKspO xhJXdWVu2e1jSeKGaYiKqNraA4PhHyvfGPANVJBL7RkifW+oAPVUqYptDMqQpJJSX7vt GrgU5u5Hx5ujzIzIC75WgZsOncP79oEYtRC+ckKKSO8SQq2HNPHEx5Z8bfAz/1piZdj3 tvWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubhwCNzYxin8FhiWt9s/K7Za+dAEqs5Idp1gWQsv6NjHnu7xkXb RmLFmftnx/Phhx0ZznSm56gHTqj+Z53PsZKogNU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL2LLFw4RVjyYnzYkI7eS3SZESx1X6pZn4OCmbtt06294qeIwTNeqrn9GCZ98KZnmoeaUv0Vkfawmzqgjzg2Jk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:ad0d:: with SMTP id w13mr15954422oie.90.1589118916751; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:4809:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 10 May 2020 06:55:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:55:16 +0700 Message-ID: To: John Levine , tte@cs.fau.de, jeanjour@comcast.net, sm+ietf@elandsys.com Cc: "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000089f49d05a54b945f" Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 13:55:21 -0000 --00000000000089f49d05a54b945f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear John Day, Toerless, S. Moonesamy, John Levine & architecture-discuss, Those the ISOC-sponsored organizations will perhaps be at field together with this UN-sponsored initiative --especially with people of "communication and management"-- to work on the Internet (architecture--if there are emergencies)-related problems: Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pandemic Response https://www.unv.org/Volunteers-for-Novel-Coronavirus-COVID- 19-pandemic-response This page said among others on how the pandemic affected essential public services: a matter of which it is perhaps about the Internet deployments..? NOTE: Critical points of the news blog "What Does A Global Pandemic Means for the Internet?" I referred to at the previous message: "The Internet has long been a connector beyond the physical. Now, it=E2=80= =99s the only reason people are able to see their faraway loved ones and complete remote projects with their coworkers amid pandemic-prompted social distancing. It=E2=80=99s a great moment for the technology...": - the Internet access at home. - a secure way to communicate.... - innovative ways using the Internet to communicate: people are realizing the importance of the Internet - funds for broadband infrastructures - engineering networks - traffic, platform, infrastructure - cybersecurity: platforms and services, privacy, phishing attack/malware - we are learning Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Minggu, 10 Mei 2020, John Levine menulis: > In article <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>, > Toerless Eckert wrote: > >... to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like > >very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be > >able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will > >exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up > >a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. > > > >Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide > >to innovators. > > I expect it won't be a surprise to hear that since the ISOC foundation > is in the U.S., it has to follow U.S. law. > > Also, 501(c)(3) is not very difficult to qualify for. There are over > a million registered non-profits in the U.S., and while a few are > large, 75% of them have annual budgets under $50K. > > -- > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > --00000000000089f49d05a54b945f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear John Day, Toerless,=C2=A0
S. Moonesamy, John Levine &
architecture-discuss,


Those the ISOC-sp= onsored organizations will perhaps be at field together with this UN-sponso= red initiative --especially with people of "communication and manageme= nt"-- to work on the Internet (architecture--if there are emergencies)= -related problems:

Volunteers for Novel Coronaviru= s (Covid 19) Pandemic Response



<= div>This page said among others on how the pandemic affected essential publ= ic services: a matter of which it is perhaps about the Internet deployments= ..?

NOTE:

Critical points= of the news blog "What Does A Global Pandemic Means for the Internet?= " I referred to at the previous message:

&quo= t;The Internet has long = been a connector beyond the physical. Now, it=E2=80=99s the only reason peo= ple are able to see their faraway loved ones and complete remote projects w= ith their coworkers amid pandemic-prompted social distancing. It=E2=80=99s = a great moment for the technology...":

- the Inte= rnet access at home.

- a secure way to communicate....

- innovative ways using the Internet to communicate: people are realizi= ng the importance of the Internet

- funds for broadband infrastructures

- engineering networks

- traffic, platform, infrastructure

- cybersecurity: platforms and services, privacy, phishing attack/malwa= re

- we are learning


Regard,
=
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Minggu, 10 Mei 2020, John Levine <<= a href=3D"mailto:johnl@taugh.com" target=3D"_blank">johnl@taugh.com>= menulis:
In article <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>,=
Toerless Eckert=C2=A0 <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
>... to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like
>very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be<= br> >able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will
>exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up
>a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad.
>
>Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide
>to innovators.

I expect it won't be a surprise to hear that since the ISOC foundation<= br> is in the U.S., it has to follow U.S. law.

Also, 501(c)(3) is not very difficult to qualify for.=C2=A0 There are over<= br> a million registered non-profits in the U.S., and while a few are
large, 75% of them have annual budgets under $50K.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@tau= gh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architec= ture-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discu= ss
--00000000000089f49d05a54b945f-- From nobody Sun May 10 09:28:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BCC3A0A8F for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 09:28:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id adgQEOCdQtwz for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 09:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778AF3A0A8E for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 09:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.115.180.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04AGS063007007 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 May 2020 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589128095; x=1589214495; i=@elandsys.com; bh=Kk/sF6Yxjr2HaslL3/combJqCKtrN/LljaUYhaNIRkk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=bVTp/uC1eHEx15mhx6vbpjUEH+HRLfQ327QlJnN+iL6fXj4yw6R+2n91D1mhSS9iJ SjpMKOhgHipnLpxpcalqGyMnGkqN5gtTTwpSw7w7wX21/N3DENw4Og4ofbH52U45fc X9RHXC5ku5uTywBE2TRktus/gCf5M0QcoV/h3gb0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200510090513.0ad089a8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 09:26:34 -0700 To: Guntur Wiseno Putra , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 16:28:33 -0000 Dear Gunter, At 06:55 AM 10-05-2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote: >Those the ISOC-sponsored organizations will perhaps be at field >together with this UN-sponsored initiative --especially with people >of "communication and management"-- to work on the Internet >(architecture--if there are emergencies)-related problems: >Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pandemic Response > >https://www.unv.org/Volunteers-for-Novel-Coronavirus-COVID-19-pandemic-response Thank you for sharing the link. I was not aware of that initiative. >This page said among others on how the pandemic affected essential >public services: a matter of which it is perhaps about the Internet >deployments..? The impact, if there was one, would be localized as essential public services are provided by government. There isn't any (unbiased) information to show that Internet deployments caused problems which affected essential public services. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Sun May 10 10:47:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6302E3A0ACE for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btinternet.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X8FG1fI1V54G for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgout0807.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0807.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.154]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3836C3A0A98 for ; 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Sun, 10 May 2020 18:46:30 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1589132827; bh=5L6nNWHOD7VuSweLYIA9PAqQAs0Dblqq3Mtq8gJkt/Y=; h=To:Cc:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version:From:Date; b=kByw+pU4DqcxXSL1QTcLKhkL+DGwBGCqSiy4uyoJc9DNq1xyN7Zrq9CgjsHbPavYq2EAe7XKwd8qxLLO8xFgeApBKzhyx+fARmEmA4pjlWyKlP92IjaCWUiB4WQEPqiNZtwdEs+H21Nv6mLxY9E+DPa0ikyuCRPE63ZyMgwYOBs= Received: from [217.43.73.162] by ux.btmail.bt.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 May 2020 18:46:29 +0100 To: Guntur Wiseno Putra , John Levine , jeanjour@comcast.net, sm+ietf@elandsys.com, tte@cs.fau.de Cc: "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" Message-ID: <49d1ec61.139f.171ffb208eb.Webtop.211@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_40916_253899961.1589132789877" User-Agent: OWM Mail 3 X-SID: 211 X-Originating-IP: [217.43.73.162] From: "wjgo_10009@btinternet.com" Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:46:29 +0100 (BST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:47:14 -0000 ------=_Part_40916_253899961.1589132789877 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I don't know if this is relevant but I will ask you to decide please,=20 just in case it is relevant. https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20078-n4710-liaison-stmt.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20136-sc2-response.pdf These are linked from https://www.unicode.org/L2/L-curdoc.htm Also, my research on communicating through the language barrier may=20 possibly be relevant, as I have a small study on seeking information=20 about relatives and friends through the language barrier after a=20 disaster. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/localizable_sentences_research.htm William Overington Sunday 10 May 2020 ------ Original Message ------ From: "Guntur Wiseno Putra" To: "John Levine" ; tte@cs.fau.de;=20 jeanjour@comcast.net; sm+ietf@elandsys.com Cc: "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" Sent: Sunday, 2020 May 10 At 14:55 Subject: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for=20 Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises Dear John Day, Toerless, S. Moonesamy, John Levine & architecture-discuss, Those the ISOC-sponsored organizations will perhaps be at field together=20 with this UN-sponsored initiative --especially with people of=20 "communication and management"-- to work on the Internet=20 (architecture--if there are emergencies)-related problems: Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pandemic Response https://www.unv.org/Volunteers-for-Novel-Coronavirus-COVID-19-pandemic-resp= onse=20 This page said among others on how the pandemic affected essential=20 public services: a matter of which it is perhaps about the Internet=20 deployments...? NOTE: Critical points of the news blog "What Does A Global Pandemic Means for=20 the Internet?" I referred to at the previous message: "The Internet has long been a connector beyond the physical. Now, it=E2=80= =99s=20 the only reason people are able to see their faraway loved ones and=20 complete remote projects with their coworkers amid pandemic-prompted=20 social distancing. It=E2=80=99s a great moment for the technology...": - the Internet access at home. - a secure way to communicate.... - innovative ways using the Internet to communicate: people are=20 realizing the importance of the Internet - funds for broadband infrastructures - engineering networks - traffic, platform, infrastructure - cybersecurity: platforms and services, privacy, phishing=20 attack/malware - we are learning Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Minggu, 10 Mei 2020, John Levine > menulis: In article <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de=20 >, Toerless Eckert > wrote: >... to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like >very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must=20 be >able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will >exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up >a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. > >Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide >to innovators. I expect it won't be a surprise to hear that since the ISOC foundation is in the U.S., it has to follow U.S. law. Also, 501(c)(3) is not very difficult to qualify for. There are over a million registered non-profits in the U.S., and while a few are large, 75% of them have annual budgets under $50K. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com , Primary=20 Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail.=20 https://jl.ly _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss=20 _______________________________________________ Architecture-discuss mailing list Architecture-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss=20 ------=_Part_40916_253899961.1589132789877 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

<= br>

I don't know if this is relevant but I will ask you to decide= please, just in case it is relevant.


https://www.unicode.org/L2/= L2020/20078-n4710-liaison-stmt.pdf


https://www.unicode.org/L2/L20= 20/20136-sc2-response.pdf


These are linked from


https:/= /www.unicode.org/L2/L-curdoc.htm


Also, my research on communicati= ng through the language barrier may possibly be relevant, as I have a small= study on seeking information about relatives and friends through the langu= age barrier after a disaster.


http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~n= go/localizable_sentences_research.htm


William Overington

Sunday 10 May 2020



------ Original Message ------
From: "Guntur Wiseno Putra" &= lt;gsenopu@gmail.com>
To: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com= >; tte@cs.fau.de; jeanjour@comcast.net; sm+ietf@elandsys.com
Cc: &quo= t;architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>=
Sent: Sunday, 2020 May 10 At 14:55
Subject: [arch-d] The Internet Ar= chitecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises

Dear John Day, Toerless,=
S. Moonesamy, John Levine &
architecture-discuss,
<= br>

Those the ISOC-sponsored organizations will pe= rhaps be at field together with this UN-sponsored initiative --especially w= ith people of "communication and management"-- to work on the Int= ernet (architecture--if there are emergencies)-related problems:
=
Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pandemic Respons= e

https://www.u= nv.org/Volunteers-for-Novel-Coronavirus-COVID-19-pandemic-response
<= /div>


This page said among others on how = the pandemic affected essential public services: a matter of which it is pe= rhaps about the Internet deployments...?

NOTE:

Critical points of the news blog "What Does A Gl= obal Pandemic Means for the Internet?" I referred to at the previous m= essage:

"The Internet has long been a connector beyond the physical.= Now, it=E2=80=99s the only reason people are able to see their faraway lov= ed ones and complete remote projects with their coworkers amid pandemic-pro= mpted social distancing. It=E2=80=99s a great moment for the technology...&= quot;:

- the Internet access at home.

- a sec= ure way to communicate....

- innovative ways using the Internet to = communicate: people are realizing the importance of the Internet

- = funds for broadband infrastructures

- engineering networks
- traffic, platform, infrastructure

- cybersecurity: platforms and= services, privacy, phishing attack/malware

- we are learning
=


Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra
Pada Minggu, 10 Mei 2020, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> menulis:
In article <2020050= 8153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de&= gt;,
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wr= ote:
>... to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like
>very = much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be
>a= ble to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will
>= exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up
>= ;a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad.
><= br> >Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide=
>to innovators.

I expect it won't be a surprise to hea= r that since the ISOC foundation
is in the U.S., it has to follow U.S. = law.

Also, 501(c)(3) is not very difficult to qualify for. There = are over
a million registered non-profits in the U.S., and while a few = are
large, 75% of them have annual budgets under $50K.

--
= Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Prim= ary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please conside= r the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

_________________________________= ______________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
A= rchitecture-discuss@ietf.org
http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss
_______________________________________________

= Architecture-discuss mailing list

Architec= ture-discuss@ietf.org

https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss

------=_Part_40916_253899961.1589132789877-- From nobody Mon May 11 05:57:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504B93A0A94 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 05:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=hzMndqie; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=ILOvrWKj Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pmoglqHNV9I9 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 05:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.yitter.info (mx5.yitter.info [159.203.31.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33A2D3A0A8E for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 05:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx5.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3075FBE1BF for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:56:44 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1589201804; bh=0xgsCGb0ETRuO6Faxf3tOk2jDwIY6lxK/WrCV5NnIdw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=hzMndqiexoVIAjjXFfstCq1MAhkHJ+29JZ5Z3a5cB4CGVa7LL7SxpnhPHuyidMmLu 9pvxYGbia3kZLAMMZANC1iBw9j1AVZlTlKVUH422MAKFKlKcaZxHPYSFw0vwj6h+e2 Fa6zXgxODgW5WaM/bieSR1ww8lUBiIsWh7H1bPIE= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx5.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx5.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LEXQXXW6BVjB for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:56:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 08:56:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1589201801; bh=0xgsCGb0ETRuO6Faxf3tOk2jDwIY6lxK/WrCV5NnIdw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=ILOvrWKjs44tmtwVYvHB/Vbj4+A2DNQOy0upZnVwY9zg/cvWXKcxagH/ASBQuDxaI LtzcxZGzBYOAOByY1remRs+78qukiiWTh6tIZWiFTvAnDqti1AriCc2WOB4p1Yhd/7 VqiQ67o2GB5QRWoi5KaMOBIIxsH2rrF0e/dN7etQ= From: Andrew Sullivan To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200511125640.ptlz37plwgqcave6@crankycanuck.ca> References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:57:17 -0000 Hi, I'm employed by the Internet Society and Internet Society Foundation [1] as the CEO, and speaking with that hat on, though I'm posting from my home address as a matter of convenience. On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 05:33:19PM +0200, Toerless Eckert wrote: > In reading the ISOC call for proposals page, i am pretty sure that > they wouldn't bother about long-term, fundamental architecture improvements > as being within scope. The COVID-19 fund is an emergency-response fund, yes. There is a planned research tranche of funding from the ISOC Foundation to come available for application later in the year. Formal architecture work is more likely to fit under that category. > certinly a key tool, but to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like > very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be > able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will > exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up > a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. The ISOC Foundation is a granting agency. It's intended to give money to others, not to run programmes of its own, so the entity that gets the money needs to be able to manage it. If nothing else, US law requires those giving out charitable grants to be able to account for the money, and that is the reason that the Foundation requires recipients to account for the money they receive. This is a pretty standard requirement. > Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide > to innovators. This seems like a request that ISOC get into the business of direct support for innovation research with respect to the Internet. There has been some thinking about this. I suspect that an IAB list is the wrong place to discuss how ISOC should construct its future programmes, however, and I encourage people who want to have such discussions to be members of the Internet Society and have that discussion on ISOC mailing lists. Best regards, A [1] Strictly speaking, the Internet Society and the Internet Society Foundation are separate entities. The Foundation is a supporting organiation of the Internet Society. Historically, the Internet Society provided both grants to others and also undertook activities through its own staff. This tended to muddy the waters grants vs. staff activity. With the Foundation, therefore, we have the opportunity to make clear which things are simply grants to others (who get the money and are therefore responsible for managing it) and which things are activities of the Internet Society itself. Formally, the ISOC Foundation's Board of Directors is the same as ISOC's Board of Trustees, and as currently constituted I'm the CEO of both; in practice the Foundation has a separate Executive Director and budget. The money to support the IETF, by the way, actually comes from the Foundation. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Mon May 11 06:25:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D723A0AC5 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 06:25:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=L0KF2RHp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=BAq2XoD6 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id auMgVn6TENVT for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 06:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.yitter.info (mx5.yitter.info [159.203.31.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F7E23A0AB1 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 06:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx5.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFC8BE1BF for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:25:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1589203506; bh=9Ed3/m0V7z60aodRI1a07GbbhsReeBPXjKRi86xGz3U=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=L0KF2RHpzkh5tSHarRC2OTWrpLHr+vPRTsosin7wHO4MHRITxWU1PRtEC/KOt7NjT JRcp+jI6ZTuLFaWZF2S0ts9Mj0FLT4+Ab7WZn+sHGMUp6YSkPI7dT9P26N8wVkjy3b hvGrJafBkVhuoGgExvjfNsYDR+/3ImY7NTPRuRQs= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx5.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx5.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Jbt_JQ9Log6 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:25:04 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:25:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1589203504; bh=9Ed3/m0V7z60aodRI1a07GbbhsReeBPXjKRi86xGz3U=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=BAq2XoD6WzNR1nvQ4WJTnO/oPbHNNG8MhXz6ILP9/SfMGc/kTtU9kfBjdCQU3LkFR mnIV/y4VAwgT8tk14/lfjzLpWAqDTcfatHGFBPU2jsav6zIiavbxVxBmAtui6JGHEu OzvzSzNR4AaJcGJ6NzDdPO/2BV03rzuY8MNnEHN0= From: Andrew Sullivan To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200511132503.fkgsbwt3u4todhzz@crankycanuck.ca> References: <20200428190608.GN62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20200428211737.GP62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: "ISOC" "New IP" "discussion" "paper" X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 13:25:39 -0000 I'm the CEO of the Internet Society and posting with that hat on, but from this address out of convenience. On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 09:58:57PM +0000, Ian Peter wrote: > Perhaps some restrictions were placed on new memberships in these > circumstances? I'm replying to this in order to stop such speculation from taking hold. There have been no additional constraints on membership of the internet-policy or any other ISOC list since last November. The interface for subscribing is awful because it was added to an off-the-shelf association membership system. You need to be a member of the Internet Society to join its lists due to a side effect of the way we understand the GDPR to work and our liability under it (it's a little different for newly-created lists). Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Tue May 12 15:54:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E8A3A0C73; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:54:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.973, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CoK0_bXNfIbS; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7FB3A0C70; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.46.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04CMrinr024665 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2020 15:53:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589324038; x=1589410438; i=@elandsys.com; bh=QHKfsWvq/HDjLY2wOsOT9ZMirkzjlmFBkF8ztVU3DlM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=OLei6EabRB09T9MfUQQBMj+PL9ETmJPjI8P6v9jPAnWfCzf4/d+2BWqO2kTHE9z7R ruH24j/FToB8DRwCQowMG6vdHYH+eR27AcFHLcmFoFpcgvIOjqoAPPDXmvUwsu6THn NjMKCU39AAzy6ZEJH8xEw3XKIQBzOXip8p+WMwSU= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 15:47:15 -0700 To: iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 22:54:06 -0000 Dear Internet Architecture Board, At 06:55 AM 11-05-2020, IESG Secretary wrote: >The Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance >(dmarc) Working Group will hold >a virtual interim meeting on 2020-06-11 from 16:00 to 17:00 UTC. > >Agenda: >Joint DMARC 2.0 Discussion (M3AAWG and IETF) During a discussion in an IETF Working Group it was argued that the working group is a standards development organization. I am subscribed to several IETF mailing lists. It is the first time I heard such a statement. I was a bit surprised to read the above announcement about a meeting between an external organization and an IETF Working Group which is described as a discussion between the external organization and the IETF. I could not find any recent liaison communication between the external organization and the IETF. Would it be possible to share a summary of the discussions which led to the above interim meeting? Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Tue May 12 16:16:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C813E3A0C76 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:15:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.026 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.026 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.973, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ro5u9DLQtCA6 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3281D3A0C74 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77CFBE20; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:15:55 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id llYW--0dJrZo; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:15:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B197BDCF; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:15:53 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1589325353; bh=LQHTr85870jdnsqiLOhNTvmXBrdQv0bp9Zl3Sba7KLg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=pKA4YhDmgG0r0ZT2Qwd9YheUUJneBwWWSNMOQ+p9ciCMAxqh56OtblouFfPi445T/ Ex/H8mXNz6/UCHKa+Ue+vaPQo3roucniYu2AoJkOuGYQzi0VfUnyaKG74V4YkxmPsB 7hRAKVedHj+QkBW7QLD2BG1Lb0Mj79fWg2/hbFw4= To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MyAegCnYtzyePkMXiMRVdzQOeDQW0j9kj" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:15:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MyAegCnYtzyePkMXiMRVdzQOeDQW0j9kj Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Zuyc3qXJ14aMDrY7BUKTHxSUMJxlJNC66"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> --Zuyc3qXJ14aMDrY7BUKTHxSUMJxlJNC66 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DE40E64E37A15D0E87863588" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DE40E64E37A15D0E87863588 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi SM, I'm not seeing why this is an IAB matter. Current IETF WGs are looked after by the IESG. Cheers, S. On 12/05/2020 23:47, S Moonesamy wrote: > Dear Internet Architecture Board, > At 06:55 AM 11-05-2020, IESG Secretary wrote: >> The Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance >> (dmarc) Working Group will hold >> a virtual interim meeting on 2020-06-11 from 16:00 to 17:00 UTC. >> >> Agenda: >> Joint DMARC 2.0 Discussion (M3AAWG and IETF) >=20 > During a discussion in an IETF Working Group it was argued that the > working group is a standards development organization.=C2=A0 I am subsc= ribed > to several IETF mailing lists.=C2=A0 It is the first time I heard such = a > statement. >=20 > I was a bit surprised to read the above announcement about a meeting > between an external organization and an IETF Working Group which is > described as a discussion between the external organization and the > IETF.=C2=A0 I could not find any recent liaison communication between t= he > external organization and the IETF.=C2=A0 Would it be possible to share= a > summary of the discussions which led to the above interim meeting? >=20 > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss --------------DE40E64E37A15D0E87863588 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV B5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXNheVvtAe9W; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2A03A0C8A; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.46.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04CNkdgt007408 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2020 16:46:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589327211; x=1589413611; i=@elandsys.com; bh=d6ixxe1rL+kLxF6bp66eWNV+s9bc8fOjm7JD5HBRZ2Q=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=qvC+8LfOoP8BXvZBitOFXAPIk85hhyITD8OeZrDe/KZ4NGxmabUnVgQcDb9nWsWss +Ndlmw1pYUh1BiMl+ZF/q/zHn3Pp+TgJGaEz28DnOl5C0QL3B9VVV4gIGRL9TD4aww QmwMGlwfZnm3q0T1K6CZJdgrBdjEWyqeW8sd5Bqk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 16:46:28 -0700 To: Stephen Farrell , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:47:01 -0000 Hi Stephen, At 04:15 PM 12-05-2020, Stephen Farrell wrote: >I'm not seeing why this is an IAB matter. Current IETF >WGs are looked after by the IESG. I'll list a two points: (a) The liaison relationships with external organizations are managed by the IAB. (b) The liaison representatives who speak on behalf of the IETF fall under the IAB. I understand that existing IETF Working Groups fall under the IESG. However, asking the IESG about a matter which falls under the IAB could be viewed as the IAB not having any role in (a) or (b). Out of curiosity, what are the specific responsibilities of the liaison representative in the current case? Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Tue May 12 16:59:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADAD3A0C99 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YI4nuX-1pe4z for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1255A3A0C90 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF01BE2C; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:59:36 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62vow86kTMMi; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:59:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A98C9BDCF; Wed, 13 May 2020 00:59:34 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1589327974; bh=LahYBU5afk3xPmAS8I0iCjW56zHDSsIb+vF+X9AB1nM=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=uZdCVgX9GtXfEmFEU7JSptGB9Z6LC1FvenIIKaaBIj/pejeyncv/Na/bmF0bQLJlL cfhwuN3aizluQZk/fInTOyEG/iZT75+LJ2Uefjxw0jvXqP8n9KdjHM2t3xWEgAn0ab oJf0el7Q19RMxRJJUv4MVkYn23kiV5oy+4AIS9Q0= To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr EMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZU bUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqO Vz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJg b097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k 4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5Xi HzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABtDJTdGVwaGVuIEZh cnJlbGwgKDIwMTcpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPokCQAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJ CZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWj6jdwIZAQAKCRBasvrxexcr6o7QD/9m x9DPJetmW794RXmNTrbTJ44zc/tJbcLdRBh0KBn9OW/EaAqjDmgNJeCMyJTKr1ywaps8HGUN hLEVkc14NUpgi4/Zkrbi3DmTp25OHj6wXBS5qVMyVynTMEIjOfeFFyxG+48od+Xn7qg6LT7G rHeNf+z/r0v9+8eZ1Ip63kshQDGhhpmRMKu4Ws9ZvTW2ACXkkTFaSGYJj3yIP4R6IgwBYGMz DXFX6nS4LA1s3pcPNxOgrvCyb60AiJZTLcOk/rRrpZtXB1XQc23ZZmrlTkl2HaThL6w3YKdi Ti1NbuMeOxZqtXcUshII45sANm4HuWNTiRh93Bn5bN6ddjgsaXEZBKUBuUaPBl7gQiQJcAlS 3MmGgVS4ZoX8+VaPGpXdQVFyBMRFlOKOC5XJESt7wY0RE2C8PFm+5eywSO/P1fkl9whkMgml 3OEuIQiP2ehRt/HVLMHkoM9CPQ7t6UwdrXrvX+vBZykav8x9U9M6KTgfsXytxUl6Vx5lPMLi 2/Jrsz6Mzh/IVZa3xjhq1OLFSI/tT2ji4FkJDQbO+yYUDhcuqfakDmtWLMxecZsY6O58A/95 8Qni6Xeq+Nh7zJ7wNcQOMoDGj+24di2TX1cKLzdDMWFaWzlNP5dB5VMwS9Wqj1Z6TzKjGjru q8soqohwb2CK9B3wzFg0Bs1iBI+2RuFnxLkCDQRaPVAyARAA+g3R0HzGr/Dl34Y07XqGqzq5 SU0nXIu9u8Ynsxj7gR5qb3HgUWYEWrHW2jHOByXnvkffucf5yzwrsvw8Q8iI8CFHiTYHPpey 4yPVn6R0w/FOMcY70eTIu/k6EEFDlDbs09DtKcrsT9bmN0XoRxITlXwWTufYqUnmS+YkAuk+ TLCtUin7OdaS2uU6Ata3PLQSeM2ZsUQMmYmHPwB9rmf+q2I005AJ9Q1SPQ2KNg/8xOGxo13S VuaSqYRQdpV93RuCOzg4vuXtR+gP0KQrus/P2ZCEPvU9cXF/2MIhXgOz207lv3iE2zGyNXld /n8spvWk+0bH5Zqd9Wcba/rGcBhmX9NKKDARZqjkv/zVEP1X97w1HsNYeUFNcg2lk9zQKb4v l1jx/Uz8ukzH2QNhU4R39dbF/4AwWuSVkGW6bTxHJqGs6YimbfdQqxTzmqFwz3JP0OtXX5q/ 6D4pHwcmJwEiDNzsBLl6skPSQ0Xyq3pua/qAP8MVm+YxCxJQITqZ8qjDLzoe7s9X6FLLC/DA L9kxl5saVSfDbuI3usH/emdtn0NA9/M7nfgih92zD92sl1yQXHT6BDa8xW1j+RU4P+E0wyd7 zgB2UeYgrp2IIcfG+xX2uFG5MJQ/nYfBoiALb0+dQHNHDtFnNGY3Oe8z1M9c5aDG3/s29QbJ +w7hEKKo9YMAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWj1QMgIbDAUJCZQmAAAKCRBasvrxexcr6qwvD/9b Rek3kfN8Q+jGrKl8qwY8HC5s4mhdDJZI/JP2FImf5J2+d5/e8UJ4fcsT79E0/FqX3Z9wZr6h sofPqLh1/YzDsYkZDHTYSGrlWGP/I5kXwUmFnBZHzM3WGrL3S7ZmCYMdudhykxXXjq7M6Do1 oxM8JofrXGtwBTLv5wfvvygJouVCVe87Ge7mCeY5vey1eUi4zSSF1zPpR6gg64w2g4TXM5qt SwkZVOv1g475LsGlYWRuJV8TA67yp1zJI7HkNqCo8KyHX0DPOh9c+Sd9ZX4aqKfqH9HIpnCL AYEgj7vofeix7gM3kQQmwynqq32bQGQBrKJEYp2vfeO30VsVx4dzuuiC5lyjUccVmw5D72J0 FlGrfEm0kw6D1qwyBg0SAMqamKN6XDdjhNAtXIaoA2UMZK/vZGGUKbqTgDdk0fnzOyb2zvXK CiPFKqIPAqKaDHg0JHdGI3KpQdRNLLzgx083EqEc6IAwWA6jSz+6lZDV6XDgF0lYqAYIkg3+ 6OUXUv6plMlwSHquiOc/MQXHfgUP5//Ra5JuiuyCj954FD+MBKIj8eWROfnzyEnBplVHGSDI ZLzL3pvV14dcsoajdeIH45i8DxnVm64BvEFHtLNlnliMrLOrk4shfmWyUqNlzilXN2BTFVFH 4MrnagFdcFnWYp1JPh96ZKjiqBwMv/H0kw== Message-ID: <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 00:59:34 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="v52QNA04kPmwUCqewuVxfFRh6HOvtxpLW" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:59:41 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --v52QNA04kPmwUCqewuVxfFRh6HOvtxpLW Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MWmrqwyGbpDvhZsYnkpHrS5jCiH46kaup"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> --MWmrqwyGbpDvhZsYnkpHrS5jCiH46kaup Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CB1445D4869F17D55B2CD6CE" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CB1445D4869F17D55B2CD6CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 13/05/2020 00:46, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Stephen, > At 04:15 PM 12-05-2020, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> I'm not seeing why this is an IAB matter. Current IETF >> WGs are looked after by the IESG. >=20 > I'll list a two points: >=20 > =C2=A0 (a) The liaison relationships with external organizations are ma= naged > by the IAB. Yep. >=20 > =C2=A0 (b) The liaison representatives who speak on behalf of the IETF = fall > under the IAB. Well, I'm not sure anyone speaks "on behalf of" the IETF;-) >=20 > I understand that existing IETF Working Groups fall under the IESG.=C2=A0= > However, asking the IESG about a matter which falls under the IAB could= > be viewed as the IAB not having any role in (a) or (b). In practice, I'd say it's usually better to chat with a WG chair or AD as the relevant bits of liaising are more likely to be front of their minds and to treat the IAB as a fallback if stuff's not happening. > Out of curiosity, what are the specific responsibilities of the liaison= > representative in the current case? Not sure - you never said which is the other organisation nor what may be up between us and them. Cheers, S. >=20 > Regards, > S. 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LgvqcfbxXPRUXYGBA6s38UUW2wiWsPTuwZqqFGjGMwiLgbGNLj4rZ5msLBgNf1sz MU6vVvmCckQHs4cC5nSZCXV5Q2EP3L1NHUWmcJhqWLjbhqi7l2P65akWEyevcDSC ize7rMr1cocERXXVUTOHrFJHrRmZRKNakF1szB0upxID+eZDXSG57J4Xl2hLd07J a2w6WXORWUtHfiRB4xFdLdXnUAxHJEOj1RW92f2J0+6qo8GWGbhWOCGhmRsPqPjS FmvQXx+M7W5ovVJbOSsm6tYONvMF6Nt4J/pGRqi7UvAuZU7ANSY= =tiEW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --v52QNA04kPmwUCqewuVxfFRh6HOvtxpLW-- From nobody Tue May 12 19:21:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDC53A0D0F; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GIgmtfFwLUQB; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD033A0D18; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.46.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04D2L7MR001837 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589336480; x=1589422880; i=@elandsys.com; bh=LHCh54uz1qZfikSAcPGhQD3IzK5sIrfQDOLoZF/IcQs=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=CMa2xOvoRUUqAQ/qH7QYoH4O8lJmGepd7Sja+RNr2mS/8O0en/XjLDe3fhM+9wlmp gcTCanaXgqJdXG64O+rGMV/lxmefjd+/U1k47EZt8YX6d4OzC8wQf1i6k2ZogFa9ty XuM2VWdCH6efw+PA3+LVDJzC3kfHiMKDM/8nCtEs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:20:47 -0700 To: Stephen Farrell , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 02:21:34 -0000 Hi Stephen, At 04:59 PM 12-05-2020, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > =C2 (b) The liaison representatives who speak on behalf of the IETF= fall > > under the IAB. > >Well, I'm not sure anyone speaks "on behalf of" the IETF;-) A definition of "representative" is "a person=20 chosen or appointed to act or speak for another=20 or others". RFC 4052 describes the liaison=20 manager as "a representative of the IETF". By my=20 reading, that means that the person is speaking on behalf of the IETF. >In practice, I'd say it's usually better to chat with a WG >chair or AD as the relevant bits of liaising are more >likely to be front of their minds and to treat the IAB as a >fallback if stuff's not happening. Ok. >Not sure - you never said which is the other organisation >nor what may be up between us and them. The name (M3AAWG) was in the first email which I sent. Regards, S. Moonesamy=20 From nobody Tue May 12 19:27:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D553A0CF3 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pztxAJXAiusl for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E4863A0CEF for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAE7BE20; Wed, 13 May 2020 03:27:02 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XRh1OcooaLLp; Wed, 13 May 2020 03:27:00 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.119] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 694D0BDCF; Wed, 13 May 2020 03:27:00 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1589336820; bh=00Ry3g4xRAHQxAywK/l76daybtJa6B1keo2TU34bAP8=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=VKy3SEaFntdycBWr4ZOxjiWH2yqPBHDy54poBGi3BuuxR4o0LX+Wg8QjDK6UrR0aj AxV3DBtHdOylj9FJLLN4JjBLkL6t8JHU2qUzlkhIQR1o9lkXYbdPPtpoLjg4i6O/Sc bnGa5LTK+ZAZrr3YHylqSxU5PC1IYKHjOhQ2ulEw= To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, Barry Leiba References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> From: Stephen Farrell Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr EMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZU bUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqO Vz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJg b097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k 4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5Xi HzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABtDJTdGVwaGVuIEZh cnJlbGwgKDIwMTcpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPokCQAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJ CZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWj6jdwIZAQAKCRBasvrxexcr6o7QD/9m x9DPJetmW794RXmNTrbTJ44zc/tJbcLdRBh0KBn9OW/EaAqjDmgNJeCMyJTKr1ywaps8HGUN hLEVkc14NUpgi4/Zkrbi3DmTp25OHj6wXBS5qVMyVynTMEIjOfeFFyxG+48od+Xn7qg6LT7G rHeNf+z/r0v9+8eZ1Ip63kshQDGhhpmRMKu4Ws9ZvTW2ACXkkTFaSGYJj3yIP4R6IgwBYGMz DXFX6nS4LA1s3pcPNxOgrvCyb60AiJZTLcOk/rRrpZtXB1XQc23ZZmrlTkl2HaThL6w3YKdi Ti1NbuMeOxZqtXcUshII45sANm4HuWNTiRh93Bn5bN6ddjgsaXEZBKUBuUaPBl7gQiQJcAlS 3MmGgVS4ZoX8+VaPGpXdQVFyBMRFlOKOC5XJESt7wY0RE2C8PFm+5eywSO/P1fkl9whkMgml 3OEuIQiP2ehRt/HVLMHkoM9CPQ7t6UwdrXrvX+vBZykav8x9U9M6KTgfsXytxUl6Vx5lPMLi 2/Jrsz6Mzh/IVZa3xjhq1OLFSI/tT2ji4FkJDQbO+yYUDhcuqfakDmtWLMxecZsY6O58A/95 8Qni6Xeq+Nh7zJ7wNcQOMoDGj+24di2TX1cKLzdDMWFaWzlNP5dB5VMwS9Wqj1Z6TzKjGjru q8soqohwb2CK9B3wzFg0Bs1iBI+2RuFnxLkCDQRaPVAyARAA+g3R0HzGr/Dl34Y07XqGqzq5 SU0nXIu9u8Ynsxj7gR5qb3HgUWYEWrHW2jHOByXnvkffucf5yzwrsvw8Q8iI8CFHiTYHPpey 4yPVn6R0w/FOMcY70eTIu/k6EEFDlDbs09DtKcrsT9bmN0XoRxITlXwWTufYqUnmS+YkAuk+ TLCtUin7OdaS2uU6Ata3PLQSeM2ZsUQMmYmHPwB9rmf+q2I005AJ9Q1SPQ2KNg/8xOGxo13S VuaSqYRQdpV93RuCOzg4vuXtR+gP0KQrus/P2ZCEPvU9cXF/2MIhXgOz207lv3iE2zGyNXld /n8spvWk+0bH5Zqd9Wcba/rGcBhmX9NKKDARZqjkv/zVEP1X97w1HsNYeUFNcg2lk9zQKb4v l1jx/Uz8ukzH2QNhU4R39dbF/4AwWuSVkGW6bTxHJqGs6YimbfdQqxTzmqFwz3JP0OtXX5q/ 6D4pHwcmJwEiDNzsBLl6skPSQ0Xyq3pua/qAP8MVm+YxCxJQITqZ8qjDLzoe7s9X6FLLC/DA L9kxl5saVSfDbuI3usH/emdtn0NA9/M7nfgih92zD92sl1yQXHT6BDa8xW1j+RU4P+E0wyd7 zgB2UeYgrp2IIcfG+xX2uFG5MJQ/nYfBoiALb0+dQHNHDtFnNGY3Oe8z1M9c5aDG3/s29QbJ +w7hEKKo9YMAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWj1QMgIbDAUJCZQmAAAKCRBasvrxexcr6qwvD/9b Rek3kfN8Q+jGrKl8qwY8HC5s4mhdDJZI/JP2FImf5J2+d5/e8UJ4fcsT79E0/FqX3Z9wZr6h sofPqLh1/YzDsYkZDHTYSGrlWGP/I5kXwUmFnBZHzM3WGrL3S7ZmCYMdudhykxXXjq7M6Do1 oxM8JofrXGtwBTLv5wfvvygJouVCVe87Ge7mCeY5vey1eUi4zSSF1zPpR6gg64w2g4TXM5qt SwkZVOv1g475LsGlYWRuJV8TA67yp1zJI7HkNqCo8KyHX0DPOh9c+Sd9ZX4aqKfqH9HIpnCL AYEgj7vofeix7gM3kQQmwynqq32bQGQBrKJEYp2vfeO30VsVx4dzuuiC5lyjUccVmw5D72J0 FlGrfEm0kw6D1qwyBg0SAMqamKN6XDdjhNAtXIaoA2UMZK/vZGGUKbqTgDdk0fnzOyb2zvXK CiPFKqIPAqKaDHg0JHdGI3KpQdRNLLzgx083EqEc6IAwWA6jSz+6lZDV6XDgF0lYqAYIkg3+ 6OUXUv6plMlwSHquiOc/MQXHfgUP5//Ra5JuiuyCj954FD+MBKIj8eWROfnzyEnBplVHGSDI ZLzL3pvV14dcsoajdeIH45i8DxnVm64BvEFHtLNlnliMrLOrk4shfmWyUqNlzilXN2BTFVFH 4MrnagFdcFnWYp1JPh96ZKjiqBwMv/H0kw== Message-ID: <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 03:26:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2jcefpQ7l6Vqmo4z38pze282KXcGE6CQh" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 02:27:06 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --2jcefpQ7l6Vqmo4z38pze282KXcGE6CQh Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="T7CYegCYVBUj7ZD0DlGIo09xZHmkTcqDL"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, Barry Leiba Message-ID: <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> --T7CYegCYVBUj7ZD0DlGIo09xZHmkTcqDL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------186D591E978F2D3139765997" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------186D591E978F2D3139765997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 13/05/2020 03:20, S Moonesamy wrote: > The=C2=A0name=C2=A0(M3AAWG)=C2=A0was=C2=A0in=C2=A0the=C2=A0first=C2=A0e= mail=C2=A0which=C2=A0I=C2=A0sent. Sorry, I must've missed that. Barry Leiba (cc'd) is our liaison to m3aawg IIRC. Maybe he can comment on whatever was said at the dmarc wg virtual interim. Cheers. S. PS: I'm involved a bit in m3aawg myself as I'm one of their senior technical advisors (well, supposedly senior in my case:-), but I wasn't at their most recent meeting back in Feb when meetings used happen so am not up to speed on dmarc goings-on in m3aawg. --------------186D591E978F2D3139765997 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV 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May 2020 23:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TnR71OaAZkm3SK9ggeiJrSkMxFrqbYpIp9fdoGitVLo=; b=jcepLHAOQ9uhz/tIDN3l/skJjo0rY8h9EJU28pRD8Z1+XvF/+nKYVpWXOWUK6RbpHT Mf5ITi2kCn6nyIK0vtioPynBiKNMRPr3Cpx1UiuoQHnMWbUUX6wZcZSf1w3H8KPfkWUd DXggeRgBsXAZigbGWMIjaUltcjqKegNIUkrRanl6dCAWbny0k37GkTpHSw7GgU3e3Ki5 8MF0/tyPojU/FzanosYOVNJc5Uct1/Yvu7y9xc87u/SueGo2ket/jzRb+wDWs2m/5Cpf STBEq7Mmt/B7YWgpTbwt9VrHTtTgyd5RVAu3n/YgqzQlM8V/czG/qYmgRspdJYGrfWK1 h4xg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TnR71OaAZkm3SK9ggeiJrSkMxFrqbYpIp9fdoGitVLo=; b=iFWeH9gJy8f+YixTWFArVNx2qJW3H/SgdNEn7PWgFy5sl9uuuXGHRq+2ONeMalncRq ozCMh4dCWfaU6nwrDMgjgnw31HGNG2Iv5hMnJYZUoc/IX+6DgiS3z1jvfffEXbzkTnE4 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Kucherawy" Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:14:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Cc: S Moonesamy , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, Barry Leiba Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000086632e05a581809d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 06:15:11 -0000 --00000000000086632e05a581809d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 7:27 PM Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > On 13/05/2020 03:20, S Moonesamy wrote: > > The name (M3AAWG) was in the first email which I sent. > > Sorry, I must've missed that. > > Barry Leiba (cc'd) is our liaison to m3aawg IIRC. Maybe he > can comment on whatever was said at the dmarc wg virtual > interim. > > Cheers. > S. > > PS: I'm involved a bit in m3aawg myself as I'm one of > their senior technical advisors (well, supposedly senior > in my case:-), but I wasn't at their most recent meeting > back in Feb when meetings used happen so am not up to > speed on dmarc goings-on in m3aawg. > Not speaking for Barry, but as the AD responsible for DMARC: The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a typical WG interim meeting, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a M3AAWG session on the same topic. The proximity is meant to encourage participation in our forum by their members who are typically fairly shy about doing so. I don't believe there's been any formal liaison communication prior to that, though as Stephen points out, Barry is the IETF's liaison to M3AAWG and is, I imagine, aware of the two meetings and planning to participate in both. I will be doing the same. -MSK --00000000000086632e05a581809d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 7:27 PM Steph= en Farrell <stephen.farrell= @cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

Hiya,

On 13/05/2020 03:20, S Moonesamy wrote:
> The=C2=A0name=C2=A0(M3AAWG)=C2=A0was=C2=A0in=C2=A0the=C2=A0first=C2=A0= email=C2=A0which=C2=A0I=C2=A0sent.

Sorry, I must've missed that.

Barry Leiba (cc'd) is our liaison to m3aawg IIRC. Maybe he
can comment on whatever was said at the dmarc wg virtual
interim.

Cheers.
S.

PS: I'm involved a bit in m3aawg myself as I'm one of
their senior technical advisors (well, supposedly senior
in my case:-), but I wasn't at their most recent meeting
back in Feb when meetings used happen so am not up to
speed on dmarc goings-on in m3aawg.

Not= speaking for Barry, but as the AD responsible for DMARC:

The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a typical WG interim meetin= g, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a M3AAWG sessio= n on the same topic.=C2=A0 The proximity is meant to encourage participatio= n in our forum by their members who are typically fairly shy about doing so= .

I don't believe there's been any formal = liaison communication prior to that, though as Stephen points out, Barry is= the IETF's liaison to M3AAWG and is, I imagine, aware of the two meeti= ngs and planning to participate in both.=C2=A0 I will be doing the same.

-MSK
--00000000000086632e05a581809d-- From nobody Tue May 12 23:36:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC62C3A0E06; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:35:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Xv1alCSjafE; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771263A0E05; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.121.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04D6ZTnf021710 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2020 23:35:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589351743; x=1589438143; i=@elandsys.com; bh=7sn8oSjlWDkjqn75P9FxjbrDNVMX5BQkObPEk5YOSIg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=XAw0KB6gvq0nzQatTm7+IWzDL2OngIX6cKcZjYnrw0u825M0uAHmJPiHv6KNAeW1S XZ1nzMxG0YpaW7UYB6tgeL9w4E+LTTnJ9gQKBNsCf9sjrf/NpxALlEbbjhDB8NgDPU UyolZNJ/q5EszZ968a+Phk8u4vHWUJB7OALtCv2M= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:35:18 -0700 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Cc: iab@iab.org, Barry Leiba , Stephen Farrell In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 06:36:00 -0000 Hi Murray, At 11:14 PM 12-05-2020, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >Not speaking for Barry, but as the AD responsible for DMARC: Ok. >The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a typical WG interim >meeting, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a >M3AAWG session on the same topic. The proximity is meant to >encourage participation in our forum by their members who are >typically fairly shy about doing so. I read https://au.news.yahoo.com/valimail-extends-email-security-standards-172300535.html I could not help noticing that DMARC is described as an IETF publication. Is that accurate? Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Tue May 12 23:58:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10FA3A0E1C for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24Nw5kq4J-4v for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x92d.google.com (mail-ua1-x92d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41FC63A0C77 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x92d.google.com with SMTP id b6so5693541uak.6 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JoOnQ6o+SmWEsI+rYGD1kkKsw8aTXorCOkQqXHleCmo=; b=kEyNaoJ52J6kDQZwHzni8YNGEv5f8N7eAu6u/+gF+Oa+mbesYwUPfWa5u+Aat7CLQ1 f9rZMs7IGDcyDT4JlrvCQ87IJnd4RZCooysCEv5rcRwF/QKgZXdWBuUgda03MJ+TuRf1 KcvTxTgynyMybl1L60A9nfBYGDCr2h3tpVGr3bxFxmdFoAR12SUobKyQsGMlq/YDU0J6 wZ+ORM+uKRZK2vlnBmHtq+NmEKPQUO4jFUdj1uX6PagNTMtUEAtdbp58zVya319HJgqB Uy3I62fBXV+iOxfw9Y/laH9p+C7xK+rxbroIsA+OpFXVC5K3O8l2dkyIgvafeBsqoN+U PrOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JoOnQ6o+SmWEsI+rYGD1kkKsw8aTXorCOkQqXHleCmo=; b=sFhvsLS8lzAPcd90skh1RurjuM/LmnW29TPjqpYWYpuVu15BLXOsIkiGi1pR3dO9oj IjEJrQMxzkt6EOp2BcrX5VslMq1iauvpC406AooNYpwA3X+grR6FwpwMUP5BJTWPJye6 uBaPAxeoGjeGYjqPS3L1M0TTgH6OgVqQfektIh2fVMTI688zfEZ35970yhzaaKr/DWDA xw/tGDqQjFu96syERuNC43GLjRpLSqzxD6Uj0KMIOmRCNP8cT+MT4andLDljUW/RfKya xtfhtyHYvGAOcKimDxCiOIZlbHjl6+49Z7xO7AfqMC3nrLz2f7bX8J7oQt/8qvMQ39Lb /qRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub8UQt/TbD6xobsn6KX48GuLLKqC5GYh3OPrwVaJ27/cnA218jE yBoVGdYifI+Z3nLNTdRKkC2UVgCh9IzC38M0Q/A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKM6j2cKZwOI6EiZH3slQwCy0ze8Hia5q0P50W6cxUq3n/w/qfhn7BBV6LojCDqWT0RchDOz0/xgB/JYvWsEhM= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:5586:: with SMTP id v6mr18228738uaa.87.1589353096078; Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:58:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab@iab.org, Barry Leiba , Stephen Farrell Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6e8a305a5821a21" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 06:58:19 -0000 --000000000000b6e8a305a5821a21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:35 PM S Moonesamy wrote: > >The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a typical WG interim > >meeting, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a > >M3AAWG session on the same topic. The proximity is meant to > >encourage participation in our forum by their members who are > >typically fairly shy about doing so. > > I read > > https://au.news.yahoo.com/valimail-extends-email-security-standards-172300535.html > I could not help noticing that DMARC is described as an IETF > publication. Is that accurate? > I imagine you are referencing the paragraph that starts "The IETF previously published an informational RFC ..." and I imagine it is indeed inaccurate. The front page text of RFC 7489 makes it clear that it is a "contribution to the RFC series" and that it is specifically not a standards track document. It does, however, say it is "Copyright (c) 2015, The IETF Trust". The distinction might be lost on some readers. -MSK --000000000000b6e8a305a5821a21 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:35 PM S Moones= amy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com&= gt; wrote:
>The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a = typical WG interim
>meeting, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a >M3AAWG session on the same topic.=C2=A0 The proximity is meant to
>encourage participation in our forum by their members who are
>typically fairly shy about doing so.

I read
https://au.news.ya= hoo.com/valimail-extends-email-security-standards-172300535.html
I could not help noticing that DMARC is described as an IETF
publication.=C2=A0 Is that accurate?

I = imagine you are referencing the paragraph that starts "The IETF previo= usly published an informational RFC ..." and I imagine it is indeed in= accurate.=C2=A0 The front page text of RFC 7489 makes it clear that it is a= "contribution to the RFC series" and that it is specifically not= a standards track document.

It does, however, say= it is "Copyright (c) 2015, The IETF Trust".=C2=A0 The distinctio= n might be lost on some readers.

-MSK
--000000000000b6e8a305a5821a21-- From nobody Wed May 13 07:08:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1075E3A0980 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUMXNm9RhVN3 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-f172.google.com (mail-il1-f172.google.com [209.85.166.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59BDC3A0976 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-f172.google.com with SMTP id b71so9196012ilg.8 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cFOF1g6aCnzB1cYYOsZR6SnnbcGpERDiAUP3ZlNxWhk=; b=IjQP4fm8vdjaFw1PCEUiu8Fwbw9nBwDy3PtqwxiOA/x979iTAKqUpl4XFH2cBrIVka DPG55KRfWzT6BQ0DUa3KmjkUaAnnVkhVWviyaDNLG2APMQXfanQDZEA+hzeQsugJnKMM Q77cCT/bd3Bl/JOr/VxHBoO8iHqZaLyKHrh+ACRd6AJ16EyNIwxE0OKvsUQMZNcyWRzJ a+ASmx2eBK9fYSFQTRCQnx4ffGo9LBtO606MgNOQavzayQbgyThUNTHRQEYSkzm6SmKb cwgRBDX7aYVi9xcbV8imVm1rk1dPcVxyOmX0PYKWvexfTQ7Jv32mSMsQGGvCEqhluK28 aHpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYG9fzwHwrrgl0337nRiUZK7xg69trMW+zGmp84VIMuuIzkc+V9 uNLYK33HIAC0Bjp2ohxhiipywUKfofnr/4ZB0og= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLeXnU1mgBlb0CvbetFXI2MBmOreskt3YOAcQ+U6lV+750xc2arQsviDhMaiUGnY5GUV4nrUiByE/fhzaTan7M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:106d:: with SMTP id q13mr23249116ilj.107.1589378887173; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:08:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 10:07:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:08:39 -0000 (Removing IAB from the distribution.) > >The meeting is being scheduled and operated as a typical WG interim > >meeting, under IETF IPR rules and so forth, scheduled adjacent to a > >M3AAWG session on the same topic. The proximity is meant to > >encourage participation in our forum by their members who are > >typically fairly shy about doing so. Adding to that: Not all inter-organization activity happens with liaison statements, and it's best when it doesn't happen that way: the most effective way for organizations to work together is through cross-participation. In the case of M3AAWG, there are quite a few IETF participants who are also active M3AAWG participants, so there's a good flow of work and information back and forth, and that's healthy for both IETF and M3AAWG. My role as the IETF liaison to M3AAWG has included helping M3AAWG participants come over to the IETF to participate, to make sure M3AAWG is aware of work in the IETF that's relevant to them, and to make sure that the IETF -- the IESG, the IAB, and the appropriate working groups -- is aware of things going on in M3AAWG. That has worked well, and some work in the former SPFBIS working group and the current DMARC and UTA working groups has originated in M3AAWG and been brought over. This is also not the first time that IETF working groups have had joint meetings with other organizations -- more accurately, IETF sessions where other organizations' members are explicitly invited to join: these meetings are always held under IETF Note Well and are open to all participants. My experience with such meetings is that the IETF working groups have benefited from targeting participation of the other organizations' members. I'm not sure, SM, what your apparent skepticism or concern is about this. Perhaps you can be clearer about why you're pushing on it. > I read > https://au.news.yahoo.com/valimail-extends-email-security-standards-172300535.html > I could not help noticing that DMARC is described as an IETF > publication. Is that accurate? No; it's an RFC, published in the Independent Stream, but not an IETF publication. But (1) few people really understand that distinction, and (2) what you're pointing to is a press release from a private company for marketing purposes, and its "spin" shouldn't surprise anyone. Again, what do you think the IETF's concern here is? Barry From nobody Wed May 13 09:28:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3AE3A0B78; Wed, 13 May 2020 09:28:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiUdV4x1kP7x; Wed, 13 May 2020 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC6C3A0B3C; Wed, 13 May 2020 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.121.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04DGSXHU027066 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2020 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589387327; x=1589473727; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ONZV2xFpv/Ueh2aIXMt2rvWXBVtWCdKQz9fhoso9Oeg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=WBGsSW9t1d8Qj8IvpGFGX3iF6LSGBwoO6ixcSlMc4mlHUu8a8OgzR7izazC2AKOLI yfV0gNRHrslceU2m/S3D7494CxIKOBAOWkuF1dMew0vafCGeIDJOHcDk1XozAALRTm h1ia7/yXyZF8zAi8ch+L9/FHS8IPbgx/hn98tcl8= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 09:25:42 -0700 To: Barry Leiba , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 16:28:52 -0000 Dear Barry, IAB, At 07:07 AM 13-05-2020, Barry Leiba wrote: >(Removing IAB from the distribution.) Thanks for teh quick reply. I am copying my reply to the IAB. >Adding to that: >Not all inter-organization activity happens with liaison statements, >and it's best when it doesn't happen that way: the most effective way >for organizations to work together is through cross-participation. In >the case of M3AAWG, there are quite a few IETF participants who are >also active M3AAWG participants, so there's a good flow of work and >information back and forth, and that's healthy for both IETF and >M3AAWG. My role as the IETF liaison to M3AAWG has included helping >M3AAWG participants come over to the IETF to participate, to make sure >M3AAWG is aware of work in the IETF that's relevant to them, and to >make sure that the IETF -- the IESG, the IAB, and the appropriate >working groups -- is aware of things going on in M3AAWG. That has >worked well, and some work in the former SPFBIS working group and the >current DMARC and UTA working groups has originated in M3AAWG and been >brought over. I don't recall seeing any information flowing towards the IETF. I did not bother much about that until I read a recent comment, which is unrelated to DMARC. The liaison relationship isn't for the benefit of the IAB or IESG only as the liaisons are described as representing the IETF (please see my exchange with Stephen about that). >This is also not the first time that IETF working groups have had >joint meetings with other organizations -- more accurately, IETF >sessions where other organizations' members are explicitly invited to >join: these meetings are always held under IETF Note Well and are open >to all participants. My experience with such meetings is that the >IETF working groups have benefited from targeting participation of the >other organizations' members. > >I'm not sure, SM, what your apparent skepticism or concern is about >this. Perhaps you can be clearer about why you're pushing on it. My concern is that there is very little information about what the liaisons representing the IETF are doing. I don't recall anyone asking questions about that unless the practice is to keep those discussions behind closed doors. I requested a summary of the discussions which led to the proposed virtual interim. The reply (please see above) mentions that: 1. It is not the first time that the IETF has a joint meeting. 2. The IETF benefits from targeting participation from other organizations. None of that addresses the question which I asked. Are liaisons relationship for outreach (2)? I don't see anything in the relevant documents which mention that as the primary purpose. For example, there is the following: "Some IETF liaison managers send reports to the IAB for publication to the wider community. This practice was more common in the past, and previous reports are archived here". For what it is worth, the reports are not available on the IAB web site as the link is a 404. Is that statement for marketing purposes? There is also: "In setting up the relationship, the IAB expects that there will be a mutual exchange of views and discussion of the best approach for undertaking new standardization work items." Does M3AAWG has any concern about the standardization work being done in the IETF DMARC Working Group? For what it is worth, I was in SPFBIS. I was not informed about any M3AAWG communication. When was the liaison relationship with M3AAWG set up? Was there any communication "representing the IETF" since then? >No; it's an RFC, published in the Independent Stream, but not an IETF >publication. But (1) few people really understand that distinction, >and (2) what you're pointing to is a press release from a private >company for marketing purposes, and its "spin" shouldn't surprise >anyone. Again, what do you think the IETF's concern here is? I gather that nobody will raise any objection if someone else was to list himself/herself as IETF and add some marketing comment saying that the IETF published a "NewIP" specification. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Wed May 13 10:02:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888F73A0BA8 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:02:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24K_CMRf3F56 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-f46.google.com (mail-io1-f46.google.com [209.85.166.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2170D3A0B9C for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f46.google.com with SMTP id e18so5933010iog.9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:02:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=STduQhQGtJw6SmNo1jColfOlk09e6nedRkvDpB/NXmk=; b=uHj5lego0OVs1S7mgx1XIvvsJs/WlAXLIigL6a0WxrXa+CyDgSAW50eckWqTLW6Ylx OpL9uG3DemwlFV0ofuGEqt34z+vHekRDwDMoN8lXN20gJ+mJrety13mYgY0hT3DLX173 tcAcR7N8NnlCS7tm6TZ33r9fahfzQFv5yBwLgs+9+DtznFdx4Av8+rob8PT/143gLAEY ZAj9/UqPvqUqdf5B2cKJTifD2bZL0pGuhelHUH76O5jfU50LgQvTrKFdX7L0aNT814Gp OiBqZGA+AsywrHnXA6VQiiYeqQJScC1bggs87vSgKR+g+aToYCekCSmARtVAXCdk/trZ 6dgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532B9W5HPbQdzzpI0lhn3hwelXWudqM3ZHsff8VYq/Cu6+pHT480 I7ktlvsFfHty3LgycLWsroLKNSBCkNfaVGHG5F2jTPqGKto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwjZ6ntwQa/41cDq1vde62pihluQSyf3JY+y20mtAScpoy24jXmQZwo/ZCbqK4ygaA3G9qMHGbgYm+jr89970g= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:582:: with SMTP id v2mr174819iox.206.1589389338082; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:02:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:02:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: IAB , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 17:02:21 -0000 > >Not all inter-organization activity happens with liaison statements, > >and it's best when it doesn't happen that way: the most effective way > >for organizations to work together is through cross-participation. In > >the case of M3AAWG, there are quite a few IETF participants who are > >also active M3AAWG participants, so there's a good flow of work and > >information back and forth, and that's healthy for both IETF and > >M3AAWG. My role as the IETF liaison to M3AAWG has included helping > >M3AAWG participants come over to the IETF to participate, to make sure > >M3AAWG is aware of work in the IETF that's relevant to them, and to > >make sure that the IETF -- the IESG, the IAB, and the appropriate > >working groups -- is aware of things going on in M3AAWG. That has > >worked well, and some work in the former SPFBIS working group and the > >current DMARC and UTA working groups has originated in M3AAWG and been > >brought over. > > I don't recall seeing any information flowing towards the IETF. I > did not bother much about that until I read a recent comment, which > is unrelated to DMARC. The liaison relationship isn't for the > benefit of the IAB or IESG only as the liaisons are described as > representing the IETF (please see my exchange with Stephen about that). - The SPFBIS working group (which you chaired) *started* because of interest within M3AAWG, which was brought to the IETF as a work proposal. - The DMARC working group was created because of work on DMARC that was started by M3AAWG members. - The ARC experimental protocol that was developed in the DMARC working group was initially proposed y M3AAWG members. - The SMTP MTA STS work in the UTA working group was proposed by M3AAWG members. Those are some things that come to mind. There is flow in both directions, and I think it's a healthy relationship. Though, repeating: it isn't happening by formal liaison statements, but instead by joint participation that's, in part, facilitated by me and by others who participate in both organizations. I believe that's working as it should. > My concern is that there is very little information about what the > liaisons representing the IETF are doing. I don't recall anyone > asking questions about that unless the practice is to keep those > discussions behind closed doors. I requested a summary of the > discussions which led to the proposed virtual interim. If you want details about why DMARC is having a virtual interim meeting, you should ask that on the DMARC list, not here. I'm sure the DMARC chairs will be happy to answer. In any case, the decision by the DMARC chairs to schedule a virtual interim meeting has nothing to do with liaisons. > There is also: "In setting up the relationship, the IAB expects that > there will be a mutual exchange of views and discussion of the best > approach for undertaking new standardization work items." Does > M3AAWG has any concern about the standardization work being done in > the IETF DMARC Working Group? I don't know what you're asking when you say "any concern". If you mean, "Does M3AAWG care about what's happening in the IETF (and DMARC in particular)?", well, yes, it absolutely does. And M3AAWG members are participating in the DMARC working group (and other working groups). If you mean, according to the more usual meaning of "concern", "Is M3AAWG worried about what's happening here?", no, not that I'm aware of. As I said, there's a lot of cross-participation (and I don't mean "cross" in the "angry" sense) and it's a healthy relationship. > When was the liaison relationship with M3AAWG set up? 2009. > Was there any communication "representing the IETF" since then? I have often given presentations at M3AAWG about what's happening in the IETF that I think they would be interested in. I often encourage people in M3AAWG, both "on mic" and in side conversations, to participate actively in relevant IETF working groups. I often answer questions about the IETF -- what it's doing, how it works, how people can be part of it -- at M3AAWG, again, both on mic and in side conversations. In doing that, yes, I think I'm representing the IETF. It's never in the sense that "I'm speaking for the IETF, and the IETF says..." That *would* be what formal liaison statements are for, and we have never done a formal liaison statement to or from M3AAWG. > >No; it's an RFC, published in the Independent Stream, but not an IETF > >publication. But (1) few people really understand that distinction, > >and (2) what you're pointing to is a press release from a private > >company for marketing purposes, and its "spin" shouldn't surprise > >anyone. Again, what do you think the IETF's concern here is? > > I gather that nobody will raise any objection if someone else was to > list himself/herself as IETF and add some marketing comment saying > that the IETF published a "NewIP" specification. This is the IETF: *someone* will raise an object to pretty much anything. But we don't control press releases or marketing statements that companies might make. We can always let people or companies know that what they said isn't actually correct. If you care enough, you could always ask the IETF Trust if they think the statement you cited infringes on any of the IETF's assets. Apart from that, I'm not sure what you want the IETF to do about it. Barry From nobody Wed May 13 11:01:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABDF3A011F; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H39HAnjFzH32; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA63A00E2; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.121.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04DHhNeP014717 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2020 10:43:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589391819; x=1589478219; i=@elandsys.com; bh=Q1hwzDmThbre7sx7i4330omqKcXSEu6BrbETWHNcDSg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=d7qwRqLfdbnC99C166slqH3Ek2rO5KCXP6muPqvRfM0YnM+iq7ORBQcl5ZsYWKS/r J/+OKLr7CHIh/qIzMNOUTxj+/2+rdhHFVwwm9TJ1ixhvDFW3NmBj1qgAdSdhTBYQPl mOggVsq8dviDVt1YfRjXr9VBKQKy/YrlBv9k6hVs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 10:42:48 -0700 To: Barry Leiba , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:01:19 -0000 Hi Barry, At 10:02 AM 13-05-2020, Barry Leiba wrote: >- The SPFBIS working group (which you chaired) *started* because of >interest within M3AAWG, which was brought to the IETF as a work >proposal. >- The DMARC working group was created because of work on DMARC that >was started by M3AAWG members. >- The ARC experimental protocol that was developed in the DMARC >working group was initially proposed y M3AAWG members. >- The SMTP MTA STS work in the UTA working group was proposed by >M3AAWG members. > >Those are some things that come to mind. There is flow in both >directions, and I think it's a healthy relationship. Though, >repeating: it isn't happening by formal liaison statements, but >instead by joint participation that's, in part, facilitated by me and >by others who participate in both organizations. I believe that's >working as it should. I'll comment below instead of focusing on the above. >If you want details about why DMARC is having a virtual interim >meeting, you should ask that on the DMARC list, not here. I'm sure >the DMARC chairs will be happy to answer. In any case, the decision >by the DMARC chairs to schedule a virtual interim meeting has nothing >to do with liaisons. Ok. >I don't know what you're asking when you say "any concern". If you >mean, "Does M3AAWG care about what's happening in the IETF (and DMARC >in particular)?", well, yes, it absolutely does. And M3AAWG members >are participating in the DMARC working group (and other working >groups). If you mean, according to the more usual meaning of >"concern", "Is M3AAWG worried about what's happening here?", no, not >that I'm aware of. As I said, there's a lot of cross-participation >(and I don't mean "cross" in the "angry" sense) and it's a healthy >relationship. Ok. >I have often given presentations at M3AAWG about what's happening in >the IETF that I think they would be interested in. I often encourage >people in M3AAWG, both "on mic" and in side conversations, to >participate actively in relevant IETF working groups. I often answer >questions about the IETF -- what it's doing, how it works, how people >can be part of it -- at M3AAWG, again, both on mic and in side >conversations. Ok. >In doing that, yes, I think I'm representing the IETF. It's never in >the sense that "I'm speaking for the IETF, and the IETF says..." That >*would* be what formal liaison statements are for, and we have never >done a formal liaison statement to or from M3AAWG. If I understood the liaison programme correctly, there is some overhead on the IAB side as it has to assign one of its members to keep an eye on what is going on. Is it useful to have a liaison relationship when there aren't any concerns or a need for formal representation? That is the question which, in my opinion, is useful for the IAB to think about. >This is the IETF: *someone* will raise an object to pretty much >anything. But we don't control press releases or marketing statements As an off-topic comment, I would say that part of being open is also about being open to objections. When that does not work well, people take their work elsewhere. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Wed May 13 11:14:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7A93A041C; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8sBMJaS8xzSr; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 812653A0440; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jYvtK-000P3P-Jo; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:14:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:13:55 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Jared Mauch , i18n-discuss@iab.org cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org, art-ads@ietf.org Message-ID: <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> In-Reply-To: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:14:07 -0000 Jared, Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org There have been multiple comments about that list, the observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion of the community that is interested in that work, a good place to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the occasional but important bursts of traffic on it. AFAIK, the first response from the IAB on the subject was this new "shutdown in 7 days" announcement. Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that. But the result should not be shutting down the list but moving responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives), creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as needed. regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on), Sisyphus --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:10 -0400 Jared Mauch wrote: > > Greetings! > > The IAB is reviewing the mailing lists we are stewards for and > intend to close this list in 7 days. > > If you have questions or concerns please direct them to > the architecture-discuss list. > > Thank you, > > Jared Mauch > (on behalf of the IAB) > > _______________________________________________ > I18n-discuss mailing list > I18n-discuss@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss From nobody Wed May 13 11:20:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549F43A07BC; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w6C3lyrD2slV; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [204.42.254.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA6653A07C3; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.129] (c-68-49-104-93.hsd1.mi.comcast.net [68.49.104.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puck.nether.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38E5154012D; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Jared Mauch In-Reply-To: <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:20:51 -0400 Cc: i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, art-ads@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:20:57 -0000 > On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 > Jared, >=20 > Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org >=20 > There have been multiple comments about that list, the > observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for > general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion > of the community that is interested in that work, a good place > to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the > occasional but important bursts of traffic on it. AFAIK, the > first response from the IAB on the subject was this new > "shutdown in 7 days" announcement. >=20 > Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further > indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a > fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work > needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work > is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that. But > the result should not be shutting down the list but moving > responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on > the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives), > creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as > needed. >=20 > regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on), > Sisyphus (No hat) I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given = your response. I previously worked for a company that used non-roman = characters as their native language, and the prevailing thoughts that = English as the the native language and cultural norms of American = English sometimes caused a clash in understanding. It would be good to hear this from others as well. I will let you know = that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to go = through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, we = should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if this is = the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the IAB as = well as the broader community. (I=E2=80=99ll find the details of that and at least let you know in = private). Thanks for your note! - jared= From nobody Wed May 13 11:36:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71D13A0764 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:36:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCTtcgVsX2vo for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-f54.google.com (mail-io1-f54.google.com [209.85.166.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1FD13A065A for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f54.google.com with SMTP id k18so220649ion.0 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RTM35q7u+uPsxPXQJ9gnciyKSPtgByCkSb9nbvr2zBE=; b=een6DcNb00R3oRRsdQQMyxPvhypW+ejww5gHgFtjF+1Fhpu/e5i8TaJAxT+D7BWS6d mNvAGQE2eKaEaR6JViU9AVYM0vZFshTz7tYh4s7JtK9+FUKVKm0FRgHHLaY/+JlF+z2L YlMAxwNfz24J4zMYtW5FVSL7nTUUz6w5tmjYltAYtviAVkBDpdNFebnx/Gtf0il09+uY 22MD9bjeS9P5XmbYrBxGMvjsHf6uxzp3RifooK12RWMitpqyaKOOXhsELzF4ho7baAyH DFzIR7heH/EMVtVPXwRj+t3rDj65+w8KR3VdCZgdjikwW3PRAqa3dTLcwL5oS//eCtMT Sabg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533P8SPlhGrlEStOPRJOeSLdlCxzzTxi6f1w9jSG1sSs7zoX4UFl OFrzhQ8f48AmqUxFXvxtqYSZIqXDyiyvjP4QLSptLq0p X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqVkAOVzJWJx97NHgDBzUtvkiAGQFCPET4fHdDNBlnmkIUvBxYxh2ttECoHOkq+86fLXENg/82RetsIWMdQ9I= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:1695:: with SMTP id s21mr580808iow.40.1589394991816; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:36:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:36:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: IAB , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:36:36 -0000 > >In doing that, yes, I think I'm representing the IETF. It's never in > >the sense that "I'm speaking for the IETF, and the IETF says..." That > >*would* be what formal liaison statements are for, and we have never > >done a formal liaison statement to or from M3AAWG. > > If I understood the liaison programme correctly, there is some > overhead on the IAB side as it has to assign one of its members to > keep an eye on what is going on. Is it useful to have a liaison > relationship when there aren't any concerns or a need for formal > representation? That is the question which, in my opinion, is useful > for the IAB to think about. There's *some* overhead with pretty much anything that a committee has to do, but the overhead of managing a liaison relationship that's working well is quite low. Yes, there's someone assigned to keep track of me as M3AAWG liaison manager. I hear from that IAB member usually only when the assignee changes, because there isn't much more to do: I try to send the IAB a routine report once a year, giving a summary of what's been happening. If something needs to be raised, I send the IAB a report about that when it comes up, and I think that happened once or twice -- not because of a liaison problem, but because there was a topic that I thought they should be aware of. And a couple of times since 2009 the assignee has talked with me about whether the liaison relationship is still useful, and we decided, after a chat, that it was. It's my goal as liaison manager to make sure that the overhead is as low as I can make it, and that both organizations see some benefit from the relationship. > As an off-topic comment, I would say that part of being open is also > about being open to objections. When that does not work well, people > take their work elsewhere. Indeed, and I certainly agree with both of those statements. Barry From nobody Wed May 13 11:37:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68E593A0769; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:37:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nWprX00fybKM; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 242033A065A; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D44E548069; Wed, 13 May 2020 20:37:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 53F3E440043; Wed, 13 May 2020 20:37:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:37:17 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: John C Klensin Cc: Jared Mauch , i18n-discuss@iab.org, art-ads@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200513183717.GQ62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:37:26 -0000 Sorry for upleveling (broadening the discussion), but i am more worried about the cleanup process in general than internationalization specifically. IMHO: please do not continue cleaning up without making sure there is sufficient tooling to easily search and find historic information and knowing where to go to today for a topic in question. IMHO, we should improve mailarchive.ietf.org: AFAIK, it does not have an index of mailing lists with metadata such as description, whether it was a working group, iab list, from when to when it existed, who was/is responsible, and maybe most importantly for this discussion: Where to direct todays discussion relating to the subject of the mailing list: nowhere (IAB/IETF does not care anymore), or some other suggested IETF mailing lists. This info would have to be filled in when closing a mailing list. Right now, subsets of this info exist in datatracker for old working group mailing lists, but i don't think we have a complete list of closed WGs (not sure), and for old non-wg i am not sure if ietf.org/mailman is removing closed non-wg mailing lists (i couldn't find an example), in mailarchive itself you just got the endless list in extended search, but without any metadata from all i can tell. I would be happy to try to set up a tooling RFE to this end (enhance mailarchive.ietf.org), but i am sure this wouldn't go anywhere (given the amount of work needed) without some leadership supporting the request. Cheers Toerless On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:13:55PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > Jared, > > Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org > > There have been multiple comments about that list, the > observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for > general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion > of the community that is interested in that work, a good place > to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the > occasional but important bursts of traffic on it. AFAIK, the > first response from the IAB on the subject was this new > "shutdown in 7 days" announcement. > > Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further > indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a > fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work > needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work > is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that. But > the result should not be shutting down the list but moving > responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on > the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives), > creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as > needed. > > regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on), > Sisyphus > > > > > > --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:10 -0400 Jared Mauch > wrote: > > > > > Greetings! > > > > The IAB is reviewing the mailing lists we are stewards for and > > intend to close this list in 7 days. > > > > If you have questions or concerns please direct them to > > the architecture-discuss list. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Jared Mauch > > (on behalf of the IAB) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I18n-discuss mailing list > > I18n-discuss@iab.org > > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Wed May 13 12:29:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412AB3A0854 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNYh8k7g0BJj for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D6A33A0866 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 88773 invoked from network); 13 May 2020 19:29:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=15ac1.5ebc4a9d.k2005; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=7tTVJfYf2MtHQXOMhFCaqGViyFTl95Ig8d5rPyrb7jU=; b=mx3YyudGGluZoeg7PxbZRI95l7lvaLFBIbW/6tHh83lU6kAgyORKfMcOyWRVu2O5+SiAOmmafUrKYx2D9thiXBhwlteORbHKuDPuu225zeCz6mitmK6BXkQHixcqlGBhTlbflM58qTc7KlsiBQnqB06VqFiVhH3lkqOg9gFNYWI3EV6bsqWSer9d5mdCVuIO9oTM34wI0Qgaih5AW7zZ+YiMdN3lsa6qF6y2sQ4RKLfGr8VEHtf6kCZX7KbP7cW1 Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP6; 13 May 2020 19:29:33 -0000 Date: 13 May 2020 15:29:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Jared Mauch" Cc: i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, art-ads@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (OSX 407 2020-02-09) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:29:37 -0000 > It would be good to hear this from others as well. I will let you know > that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to go > through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, we > should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if this is > the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the IAB as > well as the broader community. As far as I can tell there's this list and i18ndir for the directorate. So this seems to be it for public discussion. Dunno why it was configured closed, perhaps someone else remembers. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Wed May 13 12:55:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBE53A08B5; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:55:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fJ_rSONqhuv7; 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Wed, 13 May 2020 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:55:00 -0500 X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a27 From: Nico Williams To: Jared Mauch Cc: John C Klensin , art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrleeggddugedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtugfgjggfsehtkeertddtreejnecuhfhrohhmpefpihgtohcuhghilhhlihgrmhhsuceonhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgedviedvgefgtdfhtefghfeuffeglefggefhvdfgtdffhfevffeiheffieeuudefnecukfhppedvgedrvdekrddutdekrddukeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplhhotggrlhhhohhsthdpihhnvghtpedvgedrvdekrddutdekrddukeefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefpihgtohcuhghilhhlihgrmhhsuceonhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepnhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomhdpnhhrtghpthhtohepnhhitghosegtrhihphhtohhnvggtthhorhdrtghomh Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:55:11 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:20:51PM -0400, Jared Mauch wrote: > > On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin wrote= : > > [...] +1 > (No hat) >=20 > I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given > your response. [...] >=20 > It would be good to hear this from others as well. I will let you > know that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to > go through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, > we should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if > this is the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the > IAB as well as the broader community. >=20 > (I=E2=80=99ll find the details of that and at least let you know in pri= vate). The note about the list closing, without a reason being given, was a bit jarring. Anyways, we do need a list. It could be as simple as creating a new one @ietf.org if we really don't want this one @iab.org. Nico --=20 From nobody Wed May 13 12:57:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1628D3A08B6; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ix.netcom.com; domainkeys=pass (2048-bit key) header.from=asmusf@ix.netcom.com header.d=ix.netcom.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5TjVDPUIeZcj; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1580E3A08B5; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ix.netcom.com; s=dk12062016; t=1589399826; bh=uzBj3VLMOwf+9U6SjnwLyjxOmrZxkb/1uVwR Ks3Uw1c=; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date: User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language: X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=oAJ53b4yKgy7FobUzVAP8nqwZHvwt6AED frSgLUV/rprK9il0hEmziLhI7prQvNMd08KYfZKFbRcUTG37yX5BqFFrs0P2K/4idk/ mcdpEn4HhXUwc9uPJooDCL/VnO0v804ktYzmTrWnjEayCzssHF4BjkkYUlyNVm2AjNN wn7Il997MDICkiOwnU1WvH3Wu8Zjuu4xSQX4DsT8MmunPbo+cSxdfoN47li+mNr05Wi 8TfcYnddFASr3t2Gx2joEyyiigdN0+LrJZfMMa+Bx+lGLub307Qg2ek2STs/veEwD1V TF37RW4oDlsrNqcFOV2H5UmvS33gioXcDSLUcnB9w== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=ix.netcom.com; b=N9COvH3G/by8TZOVc4j4jIY+8LUBghxbFVwVIrZwnNg/4iWsBmsNPQiX0UnC9ehYxVuWETW3OWV9vcdk4D/pQzNUhp2VWy/KBB2P5+CQD/tCk/U4PPtZ3vKuvohKmPWXhS2HtEBifi0Od0Q1BTNMa5HWvLQq24B+BpFt0YH5X81JOmWRjF56myl/pRscqx/HH3/D9JJ2LLNNgC/T8ACCvxnUT2NT0qJcsK4Jxc6B9WTob65H48q99h9DlMeyH948IdvKYTmclakAP2cCa0WGTt1/0oHf/oeDxKytlErY2774/gGJ0NaC2pn9U6s0l7akctOXKrwiRsYCz6Uyr4L5vw==; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [75.172.116.31] (helo=[192.168.0.5]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1jYxV1-000Bov-Si; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:57:04 -0400 To: Jared Mauch , John C Klensin Cc: art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> From: Asmus Freytag Message-ID: <68397cd8-f0cd-afbd-6a78-6249d639b637@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:03 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B5EE4E308D4FC70346106D02" Content-Language: en-US X-ELNK-Trace: 464f085de979d7246f36dc87813833b26976a2cdabd2db7aafdb139b6d0e3014d2e2f2e18518ea2c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 75.172.116.31 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:57:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B5EE4E308D4FC70346106D02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is one of the very few lists that I am on, because my focus is exclusively IDN/i18n. Otherwise, John said it all. A./ On 5/13/2020 11:20 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: > >> On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> >> Jared, >> >> Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org >> >> There have been multiple comments about that list, the >> observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for >> general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion >> of the community that is interested in that work, a good place >> to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the >> occasional but important bursts of traffic on it. AFAIK, the >> first response from the IAB on the subject was this new >> "shutdown in 7 days" announcement. >> >> Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further >> indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a >> fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work >> needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work >> is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that. But >> the result should not be shutting down the list but moving >> responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on >> the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives), >> creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as >> needed. >> >> regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on), >> Sisyphus > (No hat) > > I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given your response. I previously worked for a company that used non-roman characters as their native language, and the prevailing thoughts that English as the the native language and cultural norms of American English sometimes caused a clash in understanding. > > It would be good to hear this from others as well. I will let you know that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to go through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, we should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if this is the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the IAB as well as the broader community. > > (I’ll find the details of that and at least let you know in private). > > Thanks for your note! > > - jared > _______________________________________________ > I18n-discuss mailing list > I18n-discuss@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss --------------B5EE4E308D4FC70346106D02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
It is one of the very few lists that I am on, because my focus is exclusively IDN/i18n.

Otherwise, John said it all.

A./


On 5/13/2020 11:20 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:


On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:

Jared,

Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org

There have been multiple comments about that list, the
observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for
general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion
of the community that is interested in that work, a good place
to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the
occasional but important bursts of traffic on it.    AFAIK, the
first response from the IAB on the subject was this new
"shutdown in 7 days" announcement.

Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further
indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a
fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work
needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work
is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that.  But
the result should not be shutting down the list but moving
responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on
the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives),
creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as
needed.

regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on),
  Sisyphus

(No hat)

I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given your response.  I previously worked for a company that used non-roman characters as their native language, and the prevailing thoughts that English as the the native language and cultural norms of American English sometimes caused a clash in understanding.

It would be good to hear this from others as well.  I will let you know that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to go through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, we should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if this is the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the IAB as well as the broader community.

(I’ll find the details of that and at least let you know in private).

Thanks for your note!

- jared
_______________________________________________
I18n-discuss mailing list
I18n-discuss@iab.org
https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss


--------------B5EE4E308D4FC70346106D02-- From nobody Wed May 13 13:06:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6CA3A08B9; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2AYI28JMJSKS; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6A413A08DA; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.119] (p548DC699.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.198.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49Mm0T07lzzyX5; Wed, 13 May 2020 22:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 22:06:48 +0200 Cc: Jared Mauch , art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 611093207.87746-e268f33536c9001fef8a4b51ac217645 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <425DE58D-884F-4C3B-9A2B-B8B5DFEA1F8B@tzi.org> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> To: Nico Williams X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:06:55 -0000 On 2020-05-13, at 21:55, Nico Williams wrote: >=20 > The note about the list closing, without a reason being given, was a = bit > jarring. Anyways, we do need a list. It could be as simple as = creating > a new one @ietf.org if we really don't want this one @iab.org. When I started the discussion of my modern-network-unicode draft last = year (which I really need to get going again, by the way), I did this on = art@, but I would have consulted i18n-discuss@ sooner or later once the = draft would have become more stable and I would have needed the = attention to detail I can only get there. Reason I would have consulted i18n-discuss@: Set of subscribers. You = don=E2=80=99t get that with a new list unless the subscribers are ported = over. I which case I have no idea why to do those gymnastics; the old = name is fine. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed May 13 13:19:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3793A08E6; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lp50kBe7rOjc; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [IPv6:2001:418:3f4::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D65213A08E3; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by puck.nether.net (Postfix, from userid 162) id 37406540157; Wed, 13 May 2020 16:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 16:19:34 -0400 From: Jared Mauch To: Nico Williams Cc: Jared Mauch , John C Klensin , art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:19:38 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:55:00PM -0500, Nico Williams wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:20:51PM -0400, Jared Mauch wrote: > > > On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > [...] > > +1 > > > (No hat) > > > > I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given > > your response. [...] > > > > It would be good to hear this from others as well. I will let you > > know that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to > > go through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, > > we should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if > > this is the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the > > IAB as well as the broader community. > > > > (I’ll find the details of that and at least let you know in private). > > The note about the list closing, without a reason being given, was a bit > jarring. Anyways, we do need a list. It could be as simple as creating > a new one @ietf.org if we really don't want this one @iab.org. I think the reason was a bit vague in my note, but the criteria we used to review were: a) last activity of list b) related to prior IAB workshops/activities c) list was IAB sponsored We found many lists that were not used and this one fell through the cracks in my steps to send out notes. If the community want it left open I personally don't think anyone will object. - Jared -- Jared Mauch | pgp key available via finger from jared@puck.nether.net clue++; | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/ My statements are only mine. From nobody Wed May 13 13:31:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC293A08FC; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S2fwP0WI3Hok; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA4053A08F6; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:31:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF83B700747; Wed, 13 May 2020 20:31:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a27.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-6-17.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.6.17]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 91C9E701520; Wed, 13 May 2020 20:31:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a27.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Wed, 13 May 2020 20:31:19 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Juvenile-Madly: 455f447679b7d06a_1589401879483_2000263243 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1589401879483:778835782 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1589401879483 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a27.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a27.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9263804ED; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:31:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=pzmfX0SctmZ+Un 2w5YX8rL1uJqY=; b=Oaw5bEaGmy8mW8XSHnTO4WrLOzA+TJSMwcs2dxd4He6H9W mLFblKzq6S/qMEydkWYPCcriBSYfs+m+2KmCCeatnhSk7cI4P+5KVwp195RFq0Z4 NDE/991k/Dj5P9qWyMHIY1zHG2CWA4pv2wRAqJDNcm32OPAiTCwentcIgiWq0= Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a27.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D92B804FE; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:31:09 -0500 X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a27 From: Nico Williams To: Jared Mauch Cc: John C Klensin , art-ads@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org Message-ID: <20200513203107.GK18021@localhost> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrleeggddugeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjfgesthdtredttdervdenucfhrhhomheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefftdektefhueetveeigfefgeejteejvdfhhefgvddtfeeujeehleeguefhgffhgfenucfkphepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehlohgtrghlhhhoshhtpdhinhgvthepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhm Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:31:26 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 04:19:34PM -0400, Jared Mauch wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:55:00PM -0500, Nico Williams wrote: > > The note about the list closing, without a reason being given, was a bit > > jarring. Anyways, we do need a list. It could be as simple as creating > > a new one @ietf.org if we really don't want this one @iab.org. > > I think the reason was a bit vague in my note, but the criteria we used > to review were: > > a) last activity of list > b) related to prior IAB workshops/activities > c) list was IAB sponsored > > We found many lists that were not used and this one fell through the > cracks in my steps to send out notes. If the community want it left open > I personally don't think anyone will object. I suspected as much. Thanks! From nobody Wed May 13 13:33:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F6E3A090E; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:33:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uy1fnnHGaMPM; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75DC33A0901; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jYy3r-000PDn-VJ; Wed, 13 May 2020 16:33:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 16:32:57 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Jared Mauch , Nico Williams cc: art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:33:41 -0000 --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 16:19 -0400 Jared Mauch wrote: > I think the reason was a bit vague in my note, but the > criteria we used to review were: > > a) last activity of list > b) related to prior IAB workshops/activities > c) list was IAB sponsored > > We found many lists that were not used and this one fell > through the cracks in my steps to send out notes. If the > community want it left open I personally don't think anyone > will object. Jared, Unless the IAB is specifically interested in the topic, if keeping it as an IAB-sponsored list requires that someone from the IAB actively monitor it and approve postings and/or memberships, my guess is that it is better turned into just another IETF non-WG list with the subscriber list moved over except for anyone who wants to opt out. Personally, I'd prefer that the IAB were actively interested and I like the very low noise situation, but, as people keep reminding me, I had a pony many years ago and would like another one. john From nobody Wed May 13 13:37:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA99C3A09CD; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:37:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 49I6r8cGbulm; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from episteme.net (episteme.net [216.169.5.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE1833A0995; Wed, 13 May 2020 13:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by episteme.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C250EACB2594; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:37:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from episteme.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (episteme.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGPR0H_7Wadn; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:37:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [172.16.1.18] (episteme.net [216.169.5.102]) by episteme.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7AA22ACB2587; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:37:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pete Resnick" To: "John C Klensin" Cc: "Jared Mauch" , "Nico Williams" , art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:37:12 -0500 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5683) Message-ID: <829E56AD-C5A9-4796-88F6-331A99EAEC4F@episteme.net> In-Reply-To: References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:37:55 -0000 On 13 May 2020, at 15:32, John C Klensin wrote: > --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 16:19 -0400 Jared Mauch > wrote: > >> I think the reason was a bit vague in my note, but the >> criteria we used to review were: >> >> a) last activity of list >> b) related to prior IAB workshops/activities >> c) list was IAB sponsored >> >> We found many lists that were not used and this one fell >> through the cracks in my steps to send out notes. If the >> community want it left open I personally don't think anyone >> will object. > > Jared, > > Unless the IAB is specifically interested in the topic, if > keeping it as an IAB-sponsored list requires that someone from > the IAB actively monitor it and approve postings and/or > memberships, my guess is that it is better turned into just > another IETF non-WG list with the subscriber list moved over > except for anyone who wants to opt out. Personally, I'd prefer > that the IAB were actively interested and I like the very low > noise situation, but, as people keep reminding me, I had a pony > many years ago and would like another one. > > john FWIW: I believe this list is actually just an alias on iab.org and already exists as i18n-discuss@ietf.org. If the IAB wants to simply ditch the alias and we update the notes on the non-WG list page, that would work too. But I don't care either way. pr -- Pete Resnick https://www.episteme.net/ All connections to the world are tenuous at best From nobody Wed May 13 14:31:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6683A0946; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ekSXf-mRona; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008DC3A093E; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.121.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04DLVeWM001661 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589405512; x=1589491912; i=@elandsys.com; bh=0pUWovsb13fH3Au6T6y+K/Axjbc4HpeSo+Agak+083o=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=cvMML/vF1HS23tfTlA39EfZ2lch4s8Dw82K8V6ebNdzEs6gOZHjrPStUHXjbQhbpV /6RZddRdAjcw6uaDAnP2O6VTZ8RzwiNmZqb2Upvk5QuxA+z8jAHaVbq5PUzQZ4MlNQ KoGpy3RUTcz43VAqjtAQLSqVaNPp1tjeTr8F1vrg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:28 -0700 To: iab-chair@iab.org From: S Moonesamy Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: [arch-d] Liaison reports (was: Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 21:31:56 -0000 Dear IAB Chair, I was searching for liaison reports. Unfortunately, the link on the IAB web site ( https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ ) is not working correctly. I assume that the openness (Section 3.6 of RFC 2850) allows for those reports to be published. Such reports could be useful information to people responding to IAB requests for comments on the IAB appointments. I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish all the liaison reports. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Wed May 13 14:48:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D0D3A096A for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b3c2zoYa8WbR for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x932.google.com (mail-ua1-x932.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::932]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B623A096E for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x932.google.com with SMTP id s5so390096uad.4 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aOIperxNjbGZPYkzTBFiRuCKmWWeYzxO2FbPYYWvKlk=; b=SkmXjJky5YnHjXF4yitO4aL/mFLvFgye5YrOdqpRHQa8NsSkNigaVIZ5+jOnse7a6h 1+Nc2i+8xFmSiHdrZQdDQyLOGKccCNuHzzjb70aBG39UNNQH7fv0pVwtZ5kJDucIUKhZ Hj7RgoLv7iYWn8JVDYOLMh3dXC1AcNTc3YGovNv0kzc1Ws84xHC2oKRJRBwrQWFGI6Dh kWamxy95vmS5UscDh9lJY99X8fQMYznizozSuMVkTbQvVdzl+q8mFJJkbT5aTA3IMm/r 86MHFiypne2hZtMprbcFFIu1bqj7MITk2BRw8+c6kAc5neH6jzFIHd9QbJ/1HLQndjkw YdQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aOIperxNjbGZPYkzTBFiRuCKmWWeYzxO2FbPYYWvKlk=; b=dfg6qd1mqZ6fwVM0ynGoEOB5wRKMPxnxjAasmIYRhsKXT4IGVEU+gQ0XfxEZ7/+7sk NHlEircYlEdfXWfFmwFRG0xwPiCdkWgSFnUWUuYaKe7FBA0M0LiJudldSHi0mo077RBG XHBqKPwmRPnxnBrTCSd/hKxJzvX7lV2QYR2bCJqBgk6JYvVAnBqVWbxUq/MZz/uCcroV LXZ0BoE53wsfI9yuh7fSa9/mVwLg9+t0tZ4iNObHzJiNp93m5bsRwTZb8MK+duNXgtSN 08byFb81glTdIvXFkehXVWFxsnxq9m2R6AgNRhl0GqjHIDmh3g5etI2+oEvagtztx1w9 FTaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530BGaQxKSMqVq0XGT0OiBPyOsjC0rUCKH1y/ubYLgBBkOpY1W+b HGTKI+HqEKDSe22ejZmH7ctra3gMS57K/ZdKj88= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJypU4BsVsZtWsFX3m4VT6Ap4Eb4M8MryWWBSW5nxU9poZxAdv0QK/xxl4oThY2vaJzV/V4NsVSR5e1aqY7tD6c= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:7c1:: with SMTP id d1mr1546110uaf.76.1589406483465; Wed, 13 May 2020 14:48:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:47:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: Barry Leiba , iab@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d9ca6305a58e885f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11 X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 21:48:07 -0000 --000000000000d9ca6305a58e885f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM S Moonesamy wrote: > If I understood the liaison programme correctly, there is some > overhead on the IAB side as it has to assign one of its members to > keep an eye on what is going on. Is it useful to have a liaison > relationship when there aren't any concerns or a need for formal > representation? That is the question which, in my opinion, is useful > for the IAB to think about. > I was the IETF liaison to the Open Mobile Alliance for a time. As there was very little interchange between the two organizations over the years, including during my tenure, the IAB chose not to re-appoint anyone and simply discontinued the role when I stepped down. Thus, I'm living proof that the IAB does indeed think about this. M3AAWG, on the other hand, has a handful of people that attend both their sessions and ours, and Barry's list of work that's come to us from them is a good example of why an established liaison is probably worth continuing. -MSK --000000000000d9ca6305a58e885f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM S Moones= amy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com&= gt; wrote:
If I understood the liaison programme correctly, ther= e is some
overhead on the IAB side as it has to assign one of its members to
keep an eye on what is going on.=C2=A0 Is it useful to have a liaison
relationship when there aren't any concerns or a need for formal
representation?=C2=A0 That is the question which, in my opinion, is useful =
for the IAB to think about.

I was the IETF l= iaison to the Open Mobile Alliance for a time.=C2=A0 As there was very litt= le interchange between the two organizations over the years, including duri= ng my tenure, the IAB chose not to re-appoint anyone and simply discontinue= d the role when I stepped down.=C2=A0 Thus, I'm living proof that the I= AB does indeed think about this.

=
M3AAWG, on the other hand, has a handful of= people that attend both their sessions and ours, and Barry's list of w= ork that's come to us from them is a good example of why an established= liaison is probably worth continuing.

-MSK
--000000000000d9ca6305a58e885f-- From nobody Wed May 13 18:45:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5323A0907 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DUKsPs4sc99G for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CBC63A08FB for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9952320895; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:44:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: S Moonesamy Cc: iab-chair@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:44:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> (S. Moonesamy's message of "Wed, 13 May 2020 14:31:28 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 01:45:05 -0000 S Moonesamy writes: > I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish all > the liaison reports. The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes: Here's an example: https://www.iab.org/documents/minutes/minutes-2020/iab-minutes-2020-04-15/ -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Wed May 13 21:31:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4E83A0B1A; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c6IoH-dRkpEu; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C05C3A0B17; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.121.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04E4UT0D026044 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2020 21:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589430644; x=1589517044; i=@elandsys.com; bh=jndL5izyNaV9hapJDSvoxOwgXa4YZCd776q1wRFuVZA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=O1EyNeyemuEW52jriKIatVqudJh8Nfpod8DXUJHqHpTm58fI6xSYnFe8dPnJ5LOwR PdxpM5Ngldl6IYXW07saNlh7N2KZrAghikchvJeXnyma3ahZmaSrsNAW5+kwSXdraL LcrM0gAaMhjpwpEJvqavc665HnLV3Iuy2SVxY9vs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 21:29:34 -0700 To: Wes Hardaker , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Cc: iab-chair@iab.org In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 04:31:00 -0000 Hi Wes, At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: >The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes: Thank you for the example. May I ask what happened to the past liaison management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in my request)? Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Wed May 13 21:49:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C393A0B2E; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dt_mI1It4GlD; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-f196.google.com (mail-pg1-f196.google.com [209.85.215.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A1CE3A0B2D; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f196.google.com with SMTP id j21so748568pgb.7; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=UExsylFO2q0/0D3aqjvJUhDy5FeC/oIyY2duX1FJ6Xo=; b=cMFOQTlcae7QKgSDJkfTW28AYrczBs1Tf1PRCtOR+G3Q9BtCpET06Ywi/TG9gajy0W u/kJrCPlaBlX5/21aPUOXGhOLIlbFcErfKvlsXTnw+c6liBnA/UVxwpwpCHdgU5bFcYK /FW2VTR0oaq/hrAOIBQzXdbq8yswzve+2bbOMtoJCn4y8m2p1RsQHohmiCDJOANyYnjK nIGrSfNp5+Y97KUyn7jaWjUJ64K7sV21fnPT3CtrAcxhEHcJldO0HrJ3hWElrYtt6qnU htUFtD/09AlBGnE0umW6a7hG4otYXtJ+ueRSaj2uLjbgiFTz+RaSgPMtmNwQqLlyiTi3 zIrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KJwDFBEWVNWMOUpQMirr+uK6fSTmXzZdzVuORM2FqFfB6WLym IiuD/e6JsHUm5Q8H54PPNXU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyVkoTkMUfiPJf0mB0KmEG5XhkDwI3O/lfqDNJzS7DK+shRQKartmFKtXyofFKyOLZ3cMyupw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:810a:: with SMTP id b10mr2510722pfi.22.1589431784534; Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:240d:1a:134:700:2587:a086:2370:5abc? ([240d:1a:134:700:2587:a086:2370:5abc]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y16sm1080377pfp.45.2020.05.13.21.49.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 13 May 2020 21:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Takahiro Nemoto In-Reply-To: <829E56AD-C5A9-4796-88F6-331A99EAEC4F@episteme.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 13:49:40 +0900 Cc: John C Klensin , Nico Williams , art-ads@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, Jared Mauch Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <78E6A561-B762-4554-8BF3-300349709CF6@kmd.keio.ac.jp> References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net> <20200513195459.GJ18021@localhost> <20200513201934.GB1417010@puck.nether.net> <829E56AD-C5A9-4796-88F6-331A99EAEC4F@episteme.net> To: Pete Resnick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 04:49:48 -0000 2020/05/14 5:37=E3=80=81Pete Resnick =E3=81=AE=E3=83= =A1=E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB: >=20 > On 13 May 2020, at 15:32, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 >> --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 16:19 -0400 Jared Mauch >> wrote: >>=20 >>> I think the reason was a bit vague in my note, but the >>> criteria we used to review were: >>>=20 >>> a) last activity of list >>> b) related to prior IAB workshops/activities >>> c) list was IAB sponsored >>>=20 >>> We found many lists that were not used and this one fell >>> through the cracks in my steps to send out notes. If the >>> community want it left open I personally don't think anyone >>> will object. >>=20 >> Jared, >>=20 >> Unless the IAB is specifically interested in the topic, if >> keeping it as an IAB-sponsored list requires that someone from >> the IAB actively monitor it and approve postings and/or >> memberships, my guess is that it is better turned into just >> another IETF non-WG list with the subscriber list moved over >> except for anyone who wants to opt out. Personally, I'd prefer >> that the IAB were actively interested and I like the very low >> noise situation, but, as people keep reminding me, I had a pony >> many years ago and would like another one. >>=20 >> john >=20 > FWIW: I believe this list is actually just an alias on iab.org and = already exists as i18n-discuss@ietf.org. If the IAB wants to simply = ditch the alias and we update the notes on the non-WG list page, that = would work too. But I don't care either way. I also think we need a mailing list to discuss i18n. I personally would prefer the IAB to be interested in i18n, but as = John-sensei and Pete-san say, we can discuss it on a different list. I'm fine with either, as long as the space for discussion on i18n is = kept. I also hope that it will be clear on which mailing list those interested = in i18n should discuss it. nemo -- Takahiro Nemoto t.nemo10@kmd.keio.ac.jp From nobody Thu May 14 07:37:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38CBA3A093B for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1q3-_KFONjzS for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x22d.google.com (mail-oi1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C7273A0ABD for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id i22so8113964oik.10 for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4ljsQ2MMvQWThEI+o73AjGbdSkvhwWQrWRS57/Sg03A=; b=ap5dfvSjV9NiYkUhKIVm+kKtZ4BBzcuYh5g+auEcBMswwt648Mo34SH9hXqei+rQSx SblPXmdfxvxQTPGZ3pt9fJEOgnbWRxySmaU3z7vR3Y4tQzxm5uXHNfRYrZ50FXjrb7cE J6fISs5xOKNK3AMRf2lX13GFZWSgwpfswQ/SPqqJ5lB5RCee+12EyV6di4fgqfGUL/0v AT8knOE77OiNPhp0s8R4NNm52Yjw1/9A5KHF/QKGqDRYFKh+O8lQP2mkT6+kdd+MvGeB thwevscFT/6icaVqhXP1Y37zLmSPBP5975hsWNx1zOe6lV874ezCwVV05vW3kuWuQxN6 iq4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4ljsQ2MMvQWThEI+o73AjGbdSkvhwWQrWRS57/Sg03A=; b=IcssnVkg8kv1a96l/zrn1FotYEvL+Ao2nYto2GVdaCwsho541mhxEDz4wfFMw6zi+t /q7pWhm6jV9AszXjLe8ylVbdCSS8qKoO3ZQFVq7KhJROizp7ipOs4EF5Q7BukgtDdZXJ OZ2dmDo+VEBaj5Mh1yjOAvY33eoCoA3WyKeYScsHW5JJHcoEyF3NmOXy+Bo2AnE/5+sf WPjEFWHY98WhAhGvfrqpnQiIwHfuJZPksBo0f1ksYFE2KLE3rqxiEc2+0SB+erPSOZH/ ZfVRDd9DgctuPrtmdLMCMbxdapxXOVhH490gA8r3W7iyCJclQ/8IxXl7Aih+IK/4Yi4e 60Kw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/jMCVsDk+HUR3mqB9kevDk/5oo1vZoCS1BOtnji5abHu3ukam ckBkNXRxDDI5l5vTxYCnPpXPBaPUQo3gGm3Rxg4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzQmqaL+DKlsLYMDlvxm6nboPGv9m7Fm/2c28Ggyh0MUhk1fiHdfauxndAUZcejWBpzhYPaQIayZWpFd9DK41Y= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4d95:: with SMTP id a143mr1727262oib.90.1589467034334; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:4809:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 21:37:13 +0700 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: Wes Hardaker , "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" , "iab-chair@iab.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f6b98f05a59ca109" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 14:37:40 -0000 --000000000000f6b98f05a59ca109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear S. Moonesamy, It may help you --given your recent posts on an interim meeting ...? It has just been published the "2019 IETF Annual Report" https://www.ietf.org/blog/annual-report-2019 While it did not explicitly mentioned about "liaison reports" it did about Interim Meetings webpage (details of agendas, minutes and materials) IETF Meetings Interim Meetings (page 5) https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/interim/ Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020, S Moonesamy menulis: > Hi Wes, > At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: > >> The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes: >> > > Thank you for the example. May I ask what happened to the past liaison > management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in my request)? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > --000000000000f6b98f05a59ca109 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear S. Moonesamy,


It may help you --give= n your recent posts on an interim meeting ...?

It = has just been published the "2019 IETF Annual Report"
<= br>


While it did not explicitly mentioned abou= t "liaison reports" it did about Interim Meetings webpage (detail= s of agendas, minutes and materials)

IETF Meetings=

Interim Meetings (page 5)

= https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/interim/



Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra
Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> menulis:
Hi Wes,
At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote:
The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes:

Thank you for the example.=C2=A0 May I ask what happened to the past liaiso= n management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in my request)?=

Regards,
S. Moonesamy
_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architec= ture-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discu= ss
--000000000000f6b98f05a59ca109-- From nobody Thu May 14 10:20:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745153A0C70 for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LPN7sHWGK4LX for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oo1-xc29.google.com (mail-oo1-xc29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE17A3A0C61 for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oo1-xc29.google.com with SMTP id g22so875078oop.13 for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aJuRoRA2rGdCuNQDFxpkwkctO3xnsgXNfd8SpUa1jFo=; b=fWchXsHWduCoEgK6UjQklzvqb6MH4boULrdwT5I0MytqVpBQ5rmahwvr8I0RrO6nbx g/ydWxIZG4fTxJlAz5B8lK8EZCkvWBucsWssLBOb91EUv0G7YIXZHfzWSH0+9Ojx47o2 7K+ek/FCbw6n40ff+9fGC42NclhCIzyysbSixdY4wKOuvJBbrVND0RvYQFooDZM3XLyI PkpItyuzMTnviFp2siKd6ZjlMC5KqtgSuHedS9/Xx5Vn/E2YfqH5hR4D01tUDvORAHQO pS5XcjqaskB7iYtArt6gdB3uAp6qnD2Ha6pGPjWiGMYCzOFnsZR82AH6BuktrBIyN2jz tIUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aJuRoRA2rGdCuNQDFxpkwkctO3xnsgXNfd8SpUa1jFo=; b=qGg4O/RNJ/yXAFERnEmFNM4ig4yB5BizdReShyX4MVvHXO4B+oZZjMSnoGLnSgd96g +MI/jLVst397uNVq/E1SMYxo91y0uG6xjTLdZLyjgtT3qSUtlcN6y2puYqkndUGA9SBy f5kSSmXnPeZhkdzTyq5+yeYYocAATIwqb0wsX6R4fn7tvvrHVNYRJYZqSej6oUR30Ax7 MXIptxIgEgMSYKfQBQvPAS1gNZ2W2raFlqtZwy6csnxSa7YSfc2+QoZHaqr6JtA7sXJZ dH37Xga5b1CgO8Tjz+7nVJkiUr5AhvQHFfExD2Ybik/ICetKUz6iJNBhToFKoOnRFlJ3 S/Og== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532COGBMhgiCOQZNwcfzCcMnFLkPX8Ty1R5TwqfBTt+dnuUnWjzG WKvz2am06CgXjloimlEY2Pu8BIdEripRXUdXr4OB+g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwzPqRB7z56lR0Xex3mmqQU6HcwFJ0e7hMP+z1vzVycBuvwZ2pyNez3gU2Nn6C8FbXtRsEhWWYSa6xsUTiTiR8= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:7046:: with SMTP id b6mr1049891oof.9.1589476837911; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:4809:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 00:20:36 +0700 Message-ID: To: S Moonesamy Cc: Wes Hardaker , "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" , "iab-chair@iab.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004d6ea705a59eeadd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 17:20:49 -0000 --0000000000004d6ea705a59eeadd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear S. Moonesamy, (By the page "Interim Meetings" suggesting to open the page "datatacker.ietf" page: ) Is this what you meant about "liasion reports"...? At the page https://www.datatracker.ietf.org there are options --by clicking the triple line icon on the up right corner-- among others are "other" where "liaison statements" are available to open: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/ Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra menulis: > Dear S. Moonesamy, > > > It may help you --given your recent posts on an interim meeting ...? > > It has just been published the "2019 IETF Annual Report" > > https://www.ietf.org/blog/annual-report-2019 > > > While it did not explicitly mentioned about "liaison reports" it did about > Interim Meetings webpage (details of agendas, minutes and materials) > > IETF Meetings > > Interim Meetings (page 5) > > https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/interim/ > > > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020, S Moonesamy menulis: > >> Hi Wes, >> At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: >> >>> The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes: >>> >> >> Thank you for the example. May I ask what happened to the past liaison >> management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in my request)? >> >> Regards, >> S. Moonesamy >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture-discuss mailing list >> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >> > --0000000000004d6ea705a59eeadd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear S. Moonesamy,


(By the page "Int= erim Meetings" suggesting to open the page "datatacker.ietf"= page: )

Is this what you meant about "liasion = reports"...?

At the page https://www.datatracker.ietf.org there are options --by clicking the triple line icon on the up ri= ght corner-- among others are "other" where "liaison stateme= nts" are available to open:




Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020= , Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis:
= Dear S. Moonesamy,


It may help you --give= n your recent posts on an interim meeting ...?

It = has just been published the "2019 IETF Annual Report"
<= br>


While it did not explicitly mentioned abou= t "liaison reports" it did about Interim Meetings webpage (detail= s of agendas, minutes and materials)

IETF Meetings=

Interim Meetings (page 5)

= https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/interim/



Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra
Pada Kamis, 14 Mei 2020, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> menulis:
Hi Wes,
At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote:
The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes:

Thank you for the example.=C2=A0 May I ask what happened to the past liaiso= n management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in my request)?=

Regards,
S. Moonesamy
_______________________________________________
Architecture-discuss mailing list
Architec= ture-discuss@ietf.org
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--0000000000004d6ea705a59eeadd-- From nobody Thu May 14 10:55:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA023A0BEE for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:55:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L7ymtC9ZlRSg for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED3C3A0BE6 for ; Thu, 14 May 2020 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.71.33]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04EHsgcx015078 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2020 10:54:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589478893; x=1589565293; i=@elandsys.com; bh=Rfz8WAOeRLvPai4+tj0Aj7AjgRVlBH9CvCEfvlqdRN8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=hHRznfCGggLaZ2irkS80zJC4uI2KDraWCZvSlbHlc2jg1kUm/UZVrmMJrV/vttkhr wNwnE7Zw44HuY22CtpHBqclxn3HWMrU4KklPXXEMNiuMisv5d0NnVR69xtdP+loU9c Q9nAJaJsirwqaIuARE/7MWOPBfIXV6+/d4dL5fOw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200514104721.0bb85ba8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 10:52:33 -0700 To: Guntur Wiseno Putra , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 17:55:05 -0000 Dear Guntur, At 10:20 AM 14-05-2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote: >(By the page "Interim Meetings" suggesting to open the page >"datatacker.ietf" page: ) > >Is this what you meant about "liasion reports"...? No. Please see the link which I included in the email at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/shz8nmDJyK_J3GDm0P4gnsXOQ4o Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Thu May 14 14:08:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19243A0DC0; Thu, 14 May 2020 14:08:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4TEeqM7F9-Ho; Thu, 14 May 2020 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F1253A0DD1; Thu, 14 May 2020 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p200300dee7007a00184ff4f5f7fc0bb9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([2003:de:e700:7a00:184f:f4f5:f7fc:bb9]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1jZL5W-0005yZ-57; Thu, 14 May 2020 23:08:18 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 23:08:17 +0200 Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> To: S Moonesamy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1589490511;3c6c896b; X-HE-SMSGID: 1jZL5W-0005yZ-57 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports (was: Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 21:08:46 -0000 Hello S. Moonesamy, Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the page was not correctly = taken over when the IAB webpage was moved to a new system in 2011. The = pages are restored now. However, as you can see and as noticed on the = IAB liaison page itself, we don=E2=80=99t have the practice of = collecting periodic report anymore, for a while already. As noted by Wes already, if reports are sent to the IAB or if liaison = managers directly report in an IAB meeting, these are noted and = published in the minutes instead.=20 Mirja > On 13. May 2020, at 23:31, S Moonesamy wrote: >=20 > Dear IAB Chair, >=20 > I was searching for liaison reports. Unfortunately, the link on the = IAB web site ( https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ ) is = not working correctly. I assume that the openness (Section 3.6 of RFC = 2850) allows for those reports to be published. Such reports could be = useful information to people responding to IAB requests for comments on = the IAB appointments. >=20 > I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish all = the liaison reports. >=20 > Regards, > S. Moonesamy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >=20 From nobody Fri May 15 09:34:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056453A0DFA for ; Fri, 15 May 2020 09:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPcNzrjKyqXR for ; Fri, 15 May 2020 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDD63A0DF0 for ; Fri, 15 May 2020 09:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.98.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04FGY8om018486 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2020 09:34:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1589560460; x=1589646860; i=@elandsys.com; bh=PP1NkADwAqAloDbnSESzqMFzvlVK8uH/s651kKmbs9w=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=hSM183uVVfTMuaaVwf8zVOUAtrT1/CtwzpvYbFnbESbjrqNSQucBbG+4LDMn6hotL rDF6oqSX5JTEe7oCpR3D8fMsd+BCcEmmlui2Szm8QzBoxwfRAeYNXo2NVyArpFilbR fFhAhAeyoVkhvAFHxivUE0Xj2zH1cg2X22vspeEg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200515093212.0ac59708@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:33:46 -0700 To: Mirja Kuehlewind From: S Moonesamy Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports (was: Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 16:34:48 -0000 Dear Mirja, At 02:08 PM 14-05-2020, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: >Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the page was not >correctly taken over when the IAB webpage was moved to a new system >in 2011. The pages are restored now. However, as you can see and as >noticed on the IAB liaison page itself, we don't have the practice >of collecting periodic report anymore, for a while already. Thank you for the above explanation. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Mon May 18 08:48:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D383A0816 for ; Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qsJlviYlQL4M for ; Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 830DD3A0809 for ; Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id l11so12532972wru.0 for ; Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Sde8m5iLX3mW56fQULulx+cJAptWGU8KdxV7tQhmyTc=; b=OoDo6+QQjLEvotbpZeqARG8KCY6xbiAcMWBvcHSgPfWQzm3jDr132wWmrjhM/iUceO NRITMiIKqbOQWWo2wIl8Ur96tzNIdux9rvxYdfW+65txRTJML5MLy4xKOkeoIT0yJ8wr qhlBMKksQhnXdrjflV0nQI6WvunxuFoK7fl8OGtiUsj02UMW6kCYn3iQkQd/Vik1XWRt R4Vf4bpsNcQ505QsWkpsOD4YM5isOAAVzPDf6voVMqy0BipRqU0Xo/yLytRMXWt+MQs9 oyPrpsL092hlBZN/FMOwpLO0eTV8OGyQI9675zTQtThHc8lEQ8VZ4tTWk1wh65FTdGEN fipA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Sde8m5iLX3mW56fQULulx+cJAptWGU8KdxV7tQhmyTc=; b=kHYx4FFJkYcID7HBpbySk0prPK6t9b4eea1LUv82BjBAHyF3+rKs4BRhmHxHEGWcsW WAgJl+kbt8OToMRggUQYqv785xcs1/bB95CA8WuZlDhh/3+VS0iAHusiCDfW6K+ur0ep tSYMBDWYmrDxMiJG7sc51TMrU4Kac9AHP/mk8vKDkXEdZO8f7V7YeMba1SpaZ0aQMH2i /WT5xMpKWpjZwAxKsbL85iYbcaRbB/VgWzEF0oM99hHmrHki6GJi9zBf2V6PMGEeT4m4 hQOp5MoO9TX/Qaatw7FuSoeR8AcsOEsByE9Vnas/t5iPRldApmwnjV8nl1J5tDJPLsY9 mXuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5315U+iSOc6L03AhOf6pz76RwDqShTz3xVvbNDTArgmFveTEvDGN RGC7yDhgUX1bnTg9/AKmuDDedHLv X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysON/Ds+soKGuZ370NnNC3nXCt2sfhmrRnC1V/AV9hOVmOQ3xT4eVqQ5tAVtDOUBlan3X3nw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:a1c8:: with SMTP id v8mr20210881wrv.79.1589816905968; Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:d49f:f66c:a6c0:775e? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:d49f:f66c:a6c0:775e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c16sm16803196wrv.62.2020.05.18.08.48.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <95025E53-BF51-4D37-8007-ADE2D79A4908@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_78AA2A68-6021-4AF2-BC5C-1F9A4061D40E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 08:48:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , S Moonesamy , architecture-discuss@ietf.org To: Mirja Kuehlewind References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports (was: Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 15:48:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_78AA2A68-6021-4AF2-BC5C-1F9A4061D40E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mirja, I suggest that the page at = https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ be updated with a note = saying that there aren=E2=80=99t periodic reports and reports received = are published in the minutes (and a link to the minutes). Bob > On May 14, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind = wrote: >=20 > Hello S. Moonesamy, >=20 > Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the page was not correctly = taken over when the IAB webpage was moved to a new system in 2011. The = pages are restored now. However, as you can see and as noticed on the = IAB liaison page itself, we don=E2=80=99t have the practice of = collecting periodic report anymore, for a while already. >=20 > As noted by Wes already, if reports are sent to the IAB or if liaison = managers directly report in an IAB meeting, these are noted and = published in the minutes instead. >=20 > Mirja >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 13. May 2020, at 23:31, S Moonesamy wrote: >>=20 >> Dear IAB Chair, >>=20 >> I was searching for liaison reports. Unfortunately, the link on the = IAB web site ( https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ ) is = not working correctly. I assume that the openness (Section 3.6 of RFC = 2850) allows for those reports to be published. Such reports could be = useful information to people responding to IAB requests for comments on = the IAB appointments. >>=20 >> I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish = all the liaison reports. >>=20 >> Regards, >> S. Moonesamy >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture-discuss mailing list >> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss --Apple-Mail=_78AA2A68-6021-4AF2-BC5C-1F9A4061D40E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl7CrkIACgkQrut0EXfn u6jSpwf9EygaBxyRryTSnpFqIo8EsybMcKtpFQY3EkPmbpj2uZIMG9VXqWYP9wxJ EmurFeLg2fmIp9nGZz4ztSKtJOtVyOMLezUv58rSvbBFKLKnt3odN7wKOvS4IVLO JUtRIQTmIEb8213TmT/a+EdKVLDW10wO3lwp7yg10Iu9640HzIw9gGKHtmDPETa/ dYOxWvcwdbzX3Xd27sapnueL8XAah+OmNNbIoymvSSunbLeyYkgPEMz78odWYQ3f ybtg+H2jGAvVCkfk3ITRjhKmohYJsK3tV8mQNKM8nDAZvZgkdB0iy46N8joMESQ7 yQCfKUNogVT+OSzjWPhWXnc2F1k5dw== =Eloc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_78AA2A68-6021-4AF2-BC5C-1F9A4061D40E-- From nobody Tue May 19 05:18:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269DF3A0956; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:18:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0HPeR84sP_iP; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D5193A091F; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p200300dee7007a00818703b5b143a604.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([2003:de:e700:7a00:8187:3b5:b143:a604]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1jb1Bt-0007K1-89; Tue, 19 May 2020 14:17:49 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: <95025E53-BF51-4D37-8007-ADE2D79A4908@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:17:46 +0200 Cc: S Moonesamy , architecture-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <95025E53-BF51-4D37-8007-ADE2D79A4908@gmail.com> To: Bob Hinden X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1589890685;782070e9; X-HE-SMSGID: 1jb1Bt-0007K1-89 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports (was: Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (dmarc) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-06-11) X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:18:15 -0000 Hello Bob, Thanks for the proposal. I=E2=80=99ll check with the liaison shepherds = and the rest of the IAB to make sure we have document the current = practice correctly on this page and the IAB liaisons page. Mirja > On 18. May 2020, at 17:48, Bob Hinden wrote: >=20 > Mirja, >=20 > I suggest that the page at = https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ be updated with a note = saying that there aren=E2=80=99t periodic reports and reports received = are published in the minutes (and a link to the minutes). >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 >> On May 14, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind = wrote: >>=20 >> Hello S. Moonesamy, >>=20 >> Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the page was not = correctly taken over when the IAB webpage was moved to a new system in = 2011. The pages are restored now. However, as you can see and as noticed = on the IAB liaison page itself, we don=E2=80=99t have the practice of = collecting periodic report anymore, for a while already. >>=20 >> As noted by Wes already, if reports are sent to the IAB or if liaison = managers directly report in an IAB meeting, these are noted and = published in the minutes instead. >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 13. May 2020, at 23:31, S Moonesamy wrote: >>>=20 >>> Dear IAB Chair, >>>=20 >>> I was searching for liaison reports. Unfortunately, the link on the = IAB web site ( https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ ) is = not working correctly. I assume that the openness (Section 3.6 of RFC = 2850) allows for those reports to be published. Such reports could be = useful information to people responding to IAB requests for comments on = the IAB appointments. >>>=20 >>> I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish = all the liaison reports. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> S. Moonesamy >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture-discuss mailing list >>> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture-discuss mailing list >> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >=20 From nobody Tue May 19 07:21:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD263A0867 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.176 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Ymk2PwvOw5H for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E2AB3A07ED for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 04JELYtH017974 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:34 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 41A9020D2A1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D2F20D279 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.11.245.81] ([10.11.245.81]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 04JELXSl028509 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:34 +0200 To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <95025E53-BF51-4D37-8007-ADE2D79A4908@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:21:47 -0000 Hello, Are these liaison reports specific to architecture? Alex Le 19/05/2020 à 14:17, Mirja Kuehlewind a écrit : > Hello Bob, > > Thanks for the proposal. I’ll check with the liaison shepherds and the rest of the IAB to make sure we have document the current practice correctly on this page and the IAB liaisons page. > > Mirja > > > >> On 18. May 2020, at 17:48, Bob Hinden wrote: >> >> Mirja, >> >> I suggest that the page at https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ be updated with a note saying that there aren’t periodic reports and reports received are published in the minutes (and a link to the minutes). >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On May 14, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: >>> >>> Hello S. Moonesamy, >>> >>> Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the page was not correctly taken over when the IAB webpage was moved to a new system in 2011. The pages are restored now. However, as you can see and as noticed on the IAB liaison page itself, we don’t have the practice of collecting periodic report anymore, for a while already. >>> >>> As noted by Wes already, if reports are sent to the IAB or if liaison managers directly report in an IAB meeting, these are noted and published in the minutes instead. >>> >>> Mirja >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 13. May 2020, at 23:31, S Moonesamy wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear IAB Chair, >>>> >>>> I was searching for liaison reports. Unfortunately, the link on the IAB web site ( https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ ) is not working correctly. I assume that the openness (Section 3.6 of RFC 2850) allows for those reports to be published. Such reports could be useful information to people responding to IAB requests for comments on the IAB appointments. >>>> >>>> I would appreciate if the IAB could consider my request to publish all the liaison reports. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> S. Moonesamy >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Architecture-discuss mailing list >>>> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture-discuss mailing list >>> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > From nobody Wed May 20 11:54:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD803A0FD2 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 11:54:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eXoPIfy8HBUs for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B55E3A0FD1 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7CF1D21500; Wed, 20 May 2020 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: S Moonesamy Cc: Wes Hardaker , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab-chair@iab.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 11:54:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> (S. Moonesamy's message of "Wed, 13 May 2020 21:29:34 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 18:54:55 -0000 S Moonesamy writes: > Hi Wes, > At 06:44 PM 13-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: > >The IAB liason reports are published as part of the IAB minutes: > > Thank you for the example. May I ask what happened to the past > liaison management reports (please see the link which I mentioned in > my request)? I think someone already answered you, but I don't see it in the response thread, so just to be absolutely certain your question doesn't go unanswered: the iab website did indeed have a bug wrt liason statements being listed in the menu and is now fixed. https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Wed May 20 15:56:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5913A08CD; Wed, 20 May 2020 15:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4FAxc4luwUzA; Wed, 20 May 2020 15:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8733A08C7; Wed, 20 May 2020 15:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.33.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04KMuBib023518 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 May 2020 15:56:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1590015383; x=1590101783; i=@elandsys.com; bh=92Ec2dkN6kucXQq/r4P974S25VJ4/DSJwo7XyaFPMQo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=U8D1QqOttcEXqoaCMiwoaX1GJTdeVbwNN/gyvq983g4gQGfUI2/ec8hPdnmNapTj6 ovzc/OL6d6daeMGu9ygxy2w0vJSwk9X/rZv1LzwNSB+5D43pR9p/H16ioMWNZb363Q Pb6AtIraQxM3jKy+QgjLuW7Xbk1oGfUAW4yY8Xxg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200520152717.0b1464e0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:54:05 -0700 To: Wes Hardaker , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Cc: iab-chair@iab.org In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 22:56:52 -0000 Hi Wes, At 11:54 AM 20-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: >I think someone already answered you, but I don't see it in the response >thread, so just to be absolutely certain your question doesn't go >unanswered: the iab website did indeed have a bug wrt liason statements >being listed in the menu and is now fixed. > >https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ Thanks for making those liaison notes available. Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Thu May 21 11:20:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08CE23A00D2 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wpfIEv9uZEHj for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ABC83A0147 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6926E21A1F; Thu, 21 May 2020 11:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: S Moonesamy Cc: Wes Hardaker , architecture-discuss@ietf.org, iab-chair@iab.org References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200520152717.0b1464e0@elandnews.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 11:20:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200520152717.0b1464e0@elandnews.com> (S. Moonesamy's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 15:54:05 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 18:20:28 -0000 S Moonesamy writes: > Hi Wes, > At 11:54 AM 20-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: > >I think someone already answered you, but I don't see it in the response > >thread, so just to be absolutely certain your question doesn't go > >unanswered: the iab website did indeed have a bug wrt liason statements > >being listed in the menu and is now fixed. > > > >https://www.iab.org/liaisons/liaison-mgr-reports/ > > Thanks for making those liaison notes available. To be fair: I had *nothing* to do with it (and deserve no thanks for said effort). I'm merely making sure your question got answered :-) -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Thu May 21 16:57:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804063A0D22 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:57:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YMKFovDj_U27 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C8D3A0C53 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.116.123.179]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 04LNvEaE004261 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 May 2020 16:57:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1590105451; x=1590191851; i=@elandsys.com; bh=a/lARr3rsxRIAPEcrBKXBBuYe4rol5jVgS9Gvo4tDLg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=MQD+E9hlcAaeSKsSvCBYBRsJBvL05bctTuvRNLAEK7KiWm7pUJHHaGtq1WiwKrZDg e8WIujKlPDnEsXDeCE7FGN/vkdELF+/SwyaprVSGmI83gOM/0Iukzhy37dlvMT8NUd QZeJkpoCX2+2/B7/P+FyNOH2jpcaj7V+TBl/fk0c= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200521155243.0b1c3338@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 16:44:19 -0700 To: Wes Hardaker , architecture-discuss@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <158920530782.23655.6622928751672901506@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512152625.124c1588@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512162358.0b239160@elandnews.com> <4548adba-834c-bfdd-36af-66b367408df8@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512191150.0bafa9a0@elandnews.com> <9161f68e-f51b-f97b-fc2b-372d24404209@cs.tcd.ie> <6.2.5.6.2.20200512232644.0d9328c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513081326.0ababe28@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513101502.0b0c7c90@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513140922.0aebf148@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200513212345.0afe2f10@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200520152717.0b1464e0@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] Liaison reports X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:57:55 -0000 Hi Wes, At 11:20 AM 21-05-2020, Wes Hardaker wrote: >To be fair: I had *nothing* to do with it (and deserve no thanks for >said effort). I'm merely making sure your question got answered :-) In my opinion that deserves a thank you. :-) Regards, S. Moonesamy From nobody Thu May 28 05:50:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016AB3A0E6B for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M1TCNlCnvPTM for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F32B03A0E6A for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id c3so2213937otr.12 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TumM1xuGTfNL0C7WKTM0Ge39gZPpT24WTP0eRMpXIiQ=; b=kplQ51+XWdqotsV+/bKppfArLPEMXZftILp6SlSXIJh6/FeAH1nwxdNQdp+BQq0v3Q KEq5sfJk/gYMuM10IMm63SE9l9gktPeSGtZAdlocfrD7tiVK7tGyNDUCKXgY80Tpiqr1 B9nlYM5IZMr2Tq2bnVw/TXASTnA5kl2/a1YX1MGrjls4bvqgvL67s/d8che+EtvMoqsE XmNV+I29oVIFyyjCpkWwWEqnvaPf4nKsl2Th2BGmcm0YmTyv34KRGu5pe0AMDRX0/VLE Y64OCs70A4Ne48nTm3eZOQ1XFb56RZFwu6Oue+/l7ThJakEqCAWMqEjKvUDbZl/txNSV Evkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TumM1xuGTfNL0C7WKTM0Ge39gZPpT24WTP0eRMpXIiQ=; b=XDrUJ5qB1tqvpPuGDHuqlG/x43f41gmhaqYg0hNR386bkVyQ7RV1/cKQmQhk4jOIny mZ7L7fZshF1lCwY3U2fsDF/EGQoYc5zk5ZIgo5mHz04Fx1ZlYzoPEnV87iz5zgZowYf0 FVPLfI5DfXSr83XPTg1/BgKOCaK2peMz0D9JI1IyRHr6ZLcV6PRAgeR4ZDINrygwWPwV NmEuNJXHsvN7/LQuDl70kyOxoISgaH9cigfZikqprdh5VmpGPk2QepWgfTfXJfQpEBsU +81b+0vB3vALZ0Sl3E5IW9EREz+1eawiu5nHD0qJAdilqzMBH2HrNjWkXbt2Ivicu6AX smzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5335I26g2xZWrDitMQcL7IMaV6fMp7QLA4IDwALvkZ6p/Hd3232S F11pLPGgq08cUZNPDZVM0Wr45heZj8cJRldEW2pE7g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzCvB5fLY/f+QScRnikJEXq5//cJ8TT/s4GNZJSKMA9sg7mgQ/TTGNozHiLsPWD6pddWXMnGZ4jfGzrTtozwO8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:210e:: with SMTP id i14mr2139790otc.284.1590670237125; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1e63:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 05:50:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200511125640.ptlz37plwgqcave6@crankycanuck.ca> References: <20200508153318.GK62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20200511125640.ptlz37plwgqcave6@crankycanuck.ca> From: Guntur Wiseno Putra Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:50:36 +0700 Message-ID: To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000070512505a6b4c6c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [arch-d] The Internet Architecture for Pandemics/Emergencies/Crises X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:50:40 -0000 --00000000000070512505a6b4c6c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Andrew & architecture-discuss, "Covid-19 Emergency Response" is currently a main concern for the Internet-related workers/learners (--and I am making a reading list at the ISOC Open Forum Library "The Internet and Emergencies/Crises: Covid-19"): The Internet for Covid-19 Emergencies/Crises Response Programme? "What Does a Global Pandemic Mean for the Internet"? https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-global-pandemic-mean-for-the-internet/ "ISOC Emergency Response Programme Grant: Covid-19" https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency-response-grant-programme-covid19/ There is a UN-sponsored initiative --especially regarding with people of "communication and data management"-- which may work on the Internet-related problems:Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pandemic Response https://www.unv.org/Volunteers-for-Novel-Coronavirus-COVID-1 9-pandemic-response There are "Liaison Statements" between the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and the International Telecommunication Union-Telecommunication Standards (ITU-T) on "Emergency Telecommunications" available at https://datatacker.ietf.org/liaison/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/548/ https://datatacker.ietf.org/liaison/362/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/277/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/lisison/810/ The International Telecommunication Union's page on "COVID-19" https://www.itu.int/en/Pages/covid-19.aspx Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Senin, 11 Mei 2020, Andrew Sullivan menulis: > Hi, > > I'm employed by the Internet Society and Internet Society Foundation [1] > as the CEO, and speaking with that hat on, though I'm posting from my > home address as a matter of convenience. > > On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 05:33:19PM +0200, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > In reading the ISOC call for proposals page, i am pretty sure that > > they wouldn't bother about long-term, fundamental architecture > improvements > > as being within scope. > > The COVID-19 fund is an emergency-response fund, yes. There is a > planned research tranche of funding from the ISOC Foundation to come > available for application later in the year. Formal architecture work > is more likely to fit under that category. > > > certinly a key tool, but to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like > > very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be > > able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will > > exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up > > a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad. > > The ISOC Foundation is a granting agency. It's intended to give money > to others, not to run programmes of its own, so the entity that gets > the money needs to be able to manage it. If nothing else, US law > requires those giving out charitable grants to be able to account for > the money, and that is the reason that the Foundation requires > recipients to account for the money they receive. This is a pretty > standard requirement. > > > Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide > > to innovators. > > This seems like a request that ISOC get into the business of direct > support for innovation research with respect to the Internet. There > has been some thinking about this. I suspect that an IAB list is the > wrong place to discuss how ISOC should construct its future > programmes, however, and I encourage people who want to have such > discussions to be members of the Internet Society and have that > discussion on ISOC mailing lists. > > Best regards, > > A > > [1] Strictly speaking, the Internet Society and the Internet Society > Foundation are separate entities. The Foundation is a supporting > organiation of the Internet Society. Historically, the Internet > Society provided both grants to others and also undertook activities > through its own staff. This tended to muddy the waters grants > vs. staff activity. With the Foundation, therefore, we have the > opportunity to make clear which things are simply grants to others > (who get the money and are therefore responsible for managing it) and > which things are activities of the Internet Society itself. Formally, > the ISOC Foundation's Board of Directors is the same as ISOC's Board > of Trustees, and as currently constituted I'm the CEO of both; in > practice the Foundation has a separate Executive Director and budget. > The money to support the IETF, by the way, actually comes from the > Foundation. > > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@anvilwalrusden.com > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > --00000000000070512505a6b4c6c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Andrew &
architecture-discuss,




"Covid-19 Emergency Response" is= currently a main concern for the Internet-related workers/learners (--and = I am making a reading list at the ISOC Open Forum Library "The Interne= t and Emergencies/Crises: Covid-19"):



The Internet for Covid-19 Emergencies/Crises Response Programme?


"Wha= t Does a Global Pandemic Mean for the Internet"?

https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2020/04/what-does-a-global-pan= demic-mean-for-the-internet/


"ISOC= Emergency Response Programme Grant: Covid-19"

https://www.isocfoundation.org/grant-programme/emergency-response-grant-pr= ogramme-covid19/


There is a UN-sponsored initiative --especially regarding with pe= ople of "communication and data management"-- which may work on t= he Internet-related problems:Volunteers for Novel Coronavirus (Covid 19) Pa= ndemic Response



There are "Liaison Statements" between the Inte= rnet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and the International Telecommunication = Union-Telecommunication Standards (ITU-T) on "Emergency Telecommunicat= ions" available at

https://datatacker.ietf.org/liaison/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/548/

https:= //datatacker.ietf.org/liaison/362/

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/liaison/277/

https://datatracker.ietf.org/lisison/81= 0/


The International Telecommunic= ation Union's page on "COVID-19"

https://www.it= u.int/en/Pages/covid-19.aspx




Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putr= a

Pada Senin, 11 Mei 2020, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> menulis:
Hi,

I'm employed by the Internet Society and Internet Society Foundation [1= ]
as the CEO, and speaking with that hat on, though I'm posting from my home address as a matter of convenience.

On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 05:33:19PM +0200, Toerless Eckert wrote:

> In reading the ISOC call for proposals page, i am pretty sure that
> they wouldn't bother about long-term, fundamental architecture imp= rovements
> as being within scope.

The COVID-19 fund is an emergency-response fund, yes.=C2=A0 There is a
planned research tranche of funding from the ISOC Foundation to come
available for application later in the year.=C2=A0 Formal architecture work=
is more likely to fit under that category.

> certinly a key tool, but to me the ISOC call for proposals looks like<= br> > very much baked to favour established administrative entities (must be=
> able to have track record to manage the money). Aka: I fear it will > exclude core technical innovators that have not managed to build up > a bureaucracy large enough to deal with money that way. Too bad.

The ISOC Foundation is a granting agency.=C2=A0 It's intended to give m= oney
to others, not to run programmes of its own, so the entity that gets
the money needs to be able to manage it.=C2=A0 If nothing else, US law
requires those giving out charitable grants to be able to account for
the money, and that is the reason that the Foundation requires
recipients to account for the money they receive.=C2=A0 This is a pretty standard requirement.
=C2=A0
> Managing the money is a service that ISOC should be able to provide > to innovators.

This seems like a request that ISOC get into the business of direct
support for innovation research with respect to the Internet.=C2=A0 There has been some thinking about this.=C2=A0 I suspect that an IAB list is the<= br> wrong place to discuss how ISOC should construct its future
programmes, however, and I encourage people who want to have such
discussions to be members of the Internet Society and have that
discussion on ISOC mailing lists.

Best regards,

A

[1] Strictly speaking, the Internet Society and the Internet Society
Foundation are separate entities.=C2=A0 The Foundation is a supporting
organiation of the Internet Society.=C2=A0 Historically, the Internet
Society provided both grants to others and also undertook activities
through its own staff.=C2=A0 This tended to muddy the waters grants
vs. staff activity.=C2=A0 With the Foundation, therefore, we have the
opportunity to make clear which things are simply grants to others
(who get the money and are therefore responsible for managing it) and
which things are activities of the Internet Society itself.=C2=A0 Formally,=
the ISOC Foundation's Board of Directors is the same as ISOC's Boar= d
of Trustees, and as currently constituted I'm the CEO of both; in
practice the Foundation has a separate Executive Director and budget.
The money to support the IETF, by the way, actually comes from the
Foundation.


--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@anvilwalrusden.com

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