From bschlies@cisco.com Fri Dec 9 12:59:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA1721F84BD; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:59:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jM2ZHtRdRedO; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660E921F84B8; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:59:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bschlies@cisco.com; l=2157; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1323464371; x=1324673971; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=roq4XWgkqaRGXWShkIk6S3ICqoXbpoFYs5YscsEWqk8=; b=U2DcMZTgVNIVaDeMXnlff1//vIiy3lZUaFt4TO9tRMWP2bJpVuv+RAEw /GGBO6dkKWlWUorQbsqSGtzJG6LtAIlK3Z4cIc841RJBEU+68EioVLm7W N2Ps3bn70WzEYvQaMldLDVMDMCHbbE27/J4MJOG3fecfFVypRKcQxRMuy 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EADB24k6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbABDqniBBYFyAQEBAQIBAQEBDwEnNAsFCwsRAQIBAg0iJyIGCAYTCRIHh2UIl1cBng2LD2MEiDCMQJJG X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,328,1320624000"; d="scan'208";a="19118810" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Dec 2011 20:59:31 +0000 Received: from sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com (sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com [10.20.217.234]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pB9KxU9f010779; Fri, 9 Dec 2011 20:59:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Benson Schliesser In-Reply-To: <6665BC1FEA04AB47B1F75FA641C43BC0911ACF31@FHDP1LUMXC7V41.us.one.verizon.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 14:59:29 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <389BEA43-78EF-46DA-871E-10174F9F32FF@cisco.com> References: <6665BC1FEA04AB47B1F75FA641C43BC0911ACF31@FHDP1LUMXC7V41.us.one.verizon.com> To: "So, Ning" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, l3vpn@ietf.org, dc@ietf.org, armd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [armd] New Non-WG Mailing List: dc -- IETF Data Center Mailing X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 20:59:32 -0000 Hi, Ning. On Dec 9, 2011, at 2:36 PM, So, Ning wrote: > Thanks for the lead. Are you suggesting all vpn4dc related discussion = should move out of L3VPN mailing list onto DC mailing list? Do you know = if the new DC list meant to be for all DC related discussion, or just a = sub-set of topics? For example, VPN4DC, NVO3, SDN, SAMI, and so on. =20 If there is a more-specific forum for a given topic, I would suggest = using it. For instance, if one wishes to discuss ARMD issues, I suggest = using the armd@ietf.org mailing list. But there is much that is out of = ARMD's scope, which might be more appropriate for discussion on = dc@ietf.org instead. I will leave it to L3VPN and L2VPN chairs to comment on what is in scope = for those respective mailing lists. Cheers, -Benson Begin forwarded message: > From: IETF Secretariat > Date: 8 December 2011 23:14:23 GMT > To: IETF Announcement list > Cc: rbonica@juniper.net, dc@ietf.org, stbryant@cisco.com > Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: dc -- IETF Data Center Mailing List >=20 > A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. >=20 > IETF Data Center Mailing List > List address: dc@ietf.org > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dc/ > To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dc >=20 > Purpose: This mailing list is for the discussion of networking issues=20= > related to data centers (DC). These issues include both issues that=20 > relate to connectivity within a single DC and issue that relate to=20 > connectivity between two or more DCs. Topics discussed on this mailing=20= > list include: >=20 > - Services provided by the DC, and the networking requirements that =20= > those services generate > - Network architectures commonly deployed in DC > - Network architectures commonly deployed to interconnect DCs > - Scaling, management and security problems associated with each =20 > commonly deployed architecture > - Solutions to the above mentioned problems.=20 >=20 > For additional information, please contact the list administrators. From lufang@cisco.com Wed Dec 14 07:52:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C1221F8BA8; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 07:52:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LC1oSzC9s9wv; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 07:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED7B21F8B87; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 07:52:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=lufang@cisco.com; l=12029; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1323877972; x=1325087572; h=mime-version:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:from:to:cc; bh=PHttAAO0kBy22XaVoyuae51OMPOoClWImBh556ks2XA=; b=fRqegoBGxcwHD4NTEAzKmjEdbFBnCyVQ2W1epqBqXcQR0uRyE4S5iz7n AUygCrp2iWqh/NnVdelPMPjzK7lz+7LgBjINsC/mfPZlQjoDS1fy8XBXl 9DqZ2y3HijvjgCg0tWwMN3E/5zx5kC4/wgzlqC3GAXR6xtRtau+NWFM8M Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap8AANTF6E6tJXG//2dsb2JhbABDgk2YFIgTiDOBBYFyAQEBBBIBCQEQAzcBERACAQgRBAEBCwYXAQYBRQcBAQUDAQEEARIIGodgmF8Bnl2LJmMEgliFWp8L X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,352,1320624000"; d="scan'208,217";a="43885580" Received: from rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com ([173.37.113.191]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2011 15:52:51 +0000 Received: from xbh-rcd-101.cisco.com (xbh-rcd-101.cisco.com [72.163.62.138]) by rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBEFqpQW031976; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:52:51 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-201.cisco.com ([72.163.62.208]) by xbh-rcd-101.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:52:51 -0600 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CCBA78.6EF0D4F8" Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:52:48 -0600 Message-ID: <238542D917511A45B6B8AA806E875E25078503E5@XMB-RCD-201.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7CD4FCD7-9EBF-40BD-83A0-6E8F9FFE4902@wanadoo.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FW: [Sdnp] Carrier Cloud 2012: Call for Papers Thread-Index: Acy6d21QNNLKOd0CRh68334M9wjsCQAAFlFw References: <7CD4FCD7-9EBF-40BD-83A0-6E8F9FFE4902@wanadoo.fr> From: "Luyuan Fang (lufang)" To: "Remi Scavenius" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Dec 2011 15:52:51.0096 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F2CF180:01CCBA78] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:00:23 -0800 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, l3vpn@ietf.org, dc@ietf.org, armd@ietf.org Subject: [armd] FW: [Sdnp] Carrier Cloud 2012: Call for Papers X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:52:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CCBA78.6EF0D4F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 From: sdnp-bounces@lucidvision.com [mailto:sdnp-bounces@lucidvision.com] On Behalf Of Remi Scavenius Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:38 AM To: sdnp@lucidvision.com Subject: [Sdnp] Carrier Cloud 2012: Call for Papers =20 If this email does not display correctly, please click here =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Carrier Cloud 2012: Transforming Service Providers Business =20 =20 =20 SaaS and IaaS are one thing and networking is another. This is an argument carriers can definitely put on the table when investigating the cloud services market. During the Carrier Cloud Summit, to be held in Novotel Wellness & Convention Centre Paris Roissy CDG from 19 to 21 June, 2012, project leaders, manufacturers and service developers will address all technical issues through up-to-date contributions. A call for proposals is effective until January 31st, 2012. The proposals will be analyzed by a scientific committee.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Organized by Upperside Conferences 54 rue du Faubourg Saint Antoine 75012 Paris - France =20 If you don't want to receive emails regarding our conferences and events, send us an email. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CCBA78.6EF0D4F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From:= = sdnp-bounces@lucidvision.com [mailto:sdnp-bounces@lucidvision.com] On Behalf Of Remi = Scavenius
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:38 AM
To: sdnp@lucidvision.com
Subject: [Sdnp] Carrier Cloud 2012: Call for = Papers

 

If this = email does not display correctly, please click here

 

 

 

 

Carrier Cloud 2012: Transforming Service Providers = Business

 

 

SaaS and IaaS are one thing and networking is = another. This is an argument carriers can definitely put on the table when investigating the cloud services market. During the Carrier Cloud = Summit, to be held in Novotel Wellness & Convention Centre Paris Roissy = CDG from 19 to 21 June, 2012, project leaders, manufacturers and service developers will address all technical = issues through up-to-date contributions.

A call for proposals is effective until January 31st, = 2012.

The proposals will be analyzed by a scientific = committee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Organized = by Upperside Conferences 54 rue du = Faubourg Saint Antoine 75012 Paris - France

 

If you don't = want to receive emails regarding our conferences and events, send us an = email.

 

 

 

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CCBA78.6EF0D4F8-- From bschlies@cisco.com Wed Dec 14 09:36:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B57321F8BB3 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:36:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l6iJTj2i0nis for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-4.cisco.com (mtv-iport-4.cisco.com [173.36.130.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B969421F8B9C for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bschlies@cisco.com; l=6058; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1323884167; x=1325093767; h=from:subject:date:references:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=wJMWOCJCMdJ+0AiUCmWoKgnSxR1zwf+QEsi2zlPydiU=; b=UNS7UVarfxHw1/E0J+RrNXWdiLcm5TTikDyppjoemYEwbKgM0ZPjMypM mngbw/mrULw7nz8pa/7q2ydCAOIUXSUpCo3oNlkpLANpY6LqMfa46SnWM SIIJcPGizlks/l99YX79pkR94qxStA5+AVtdil4F50wBExn75dp3v6E2p 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAPHd6E6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbAA6CqsngQWBcgEBAQMBAQEBDwFSAQgQCxwDAQIvJyYCCBkbB4dYCJhoAY0ekSmIUIJWYwSIMoxCkkk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,353,1320624000"; d="scan'208,217";a="20766646" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2011 17:36:07 +0000 Received: from sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com (sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com [10.20.217.234]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBEHa6sD026387 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:36:07 GMT From: Benson Schliesser Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-49--167900713 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:36:06 -0600 References: <20111214172546.9AAA921F8AF0@ietfa.amsl.com> To: armd@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [armd] Fwd: Joint O&M / Routing Area Interim To Discuss Data Center Network Challenges X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:36:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail-49--167900713 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FYI Begin forwarded message: > From: IESG Secretary > Date: December 14, 2011 11:25:46 AM CST > To: IETF Announcement list > Cc: dc@ietf.org > Subject: Joint O&M / Routing Area Interim To Discuss Data Center = Network Challenges=20 >=20 > The IETF Operations and Routing Areas will hold a two-day joint = interim meeting in late January or early February to discuss networking=20= > challenges encountered in data centers. A doodle poll has been posted = at http://www.doodle.com/hiu9xgw7tg7pkrwg in order to gauge interest=20 > and identify a convenient date. While a venue has not yet been chosen, = the IETF is considering sites in the eastern part of the United States=20= > and Canada. An attendance fee may be charged to cover meeting costs. >=20 > Those requesting time on the agenda are asked to submit Internet = Drafts in the following areas: >=20 > - New services offered through data centers > - Networking requirements for the data center > - Network architectures for the data center > - Scaling, resiliency, security issues in the data center networks >=20 > Internet Drafts considered by this meeting will specify motivation, = requirements and constraints for data center networking solutions=20 > to be developed by the IETF. Presentations regarding solutions will be = entertained only if that discussion helps to describe the problem=20 > space and time permits a balanced discussion of candidate = technologies. >=20 > All drafts presented at this meeting will be announced and discussed = on the IETF Data Center Mailing List (dc@ietf.org). Those submitting=20 > drafts are asked to announce them to the mailing list upon submission. > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --Apple-Mail-49--167900713 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
From: IESG Secretary = <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Date: December 14, 2011 11:25:46 AM = CST
To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
<= /span>
Subject: Joint O&M / = Routing Area Interim To Discuss Data Center Network Challenges =

The IETF Operations and Routing Areas will = hold a two-day joint interim meeting in late January or early February = to discuss networking
challenges encountered in data centers. A = doodle poll has been posted at http://www.doodle.com/hiu9= xgw7tg7pkrwg in order to gauge interest
and identify a = convenient date. While a venue has not yet been chosen, the IETF is = considering sites in the eastern part of the United States
and = Canada. An attendance fee may be charged to cover meeting = costs.

Those requesting time on the agenda are asked to submit = Internet Drafts in the following areas:

- New services offered = through data centers
- Networking requirements for the data = center
- Network architectures for the data center
- Scaling, = resiliency, security issues in the data center networks

Internet = Drafts considered by this meeting will specify motivation, requirements = and constraints for data center networking solutions
to be developed = by the IETF. Presentations regarding solutions will be entertained only = if that discussion helps to describe the problem
space and time = permits a balanced discussion of candidate technologies.

All = drafts presented at this meeting will be announced and discussed on the = IETF Data Center Mailing List (dc@ietf.org). Those submitting =
drafts are asked to announce them to the mailing list upon = submission.
_______________________________________________
IETF-Ann= ounce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

= --Apple-Mail-49--167900713-- From bschlies@cisco.com Thu Dec 15 14:49:30 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1DC11E80B0 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AWRVydkph6bB for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDC111E80A5 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bschlies@cisco.com; l=1367; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1323989370; x=1325198970; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version; bh=VL7mZO+V4QXNupl+9qWmKeGl8QnNAsUHniqFy0hPSGs=; b=VsPPTba7wnlaDxJjoXHt4X50MHBWDtvbHC5KdJDnzsKLIqbiJyEXe80I oDDNxYexjQArGHJ3V4g2XqWYsBfJJctF8Nxt12TxUO2vBJMw2jI5+OHrx bqB6aDkJCHdhkIWJXgheq0zODuelMTyBIFsPbfDNHGYmfxqQZFu9DPhYr 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtkHAF946k6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbABDozGIBoEFgWkFHQGBBAGBOxmFJoIpEZkNgSYBnk+IaoI3YwSINIxCkko X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,360,1320624000"; d="scan'208,217";a="20969357" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Dec 2011 22:49:29 +0000 Received: from sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com (sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com [10.20.217.234]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBFMnTef012730 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:49:29 GMT From: Benson Schliesser Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--62698189 Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:49:28 -0600 Message-Id: To: armd@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [armd] ARMD IETF82 Minutes Posted X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:49:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail-3--62698189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The draft minutes from ARMD's meeting at IETF-82 have been posted at = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/minutes/armd.txt Thanks to Sue Hares for taking notes. Please review the minutes and let the chairs know if there are any = mistakes, omissions, etc. Any corrections must be submitted to the = chairs by 4-January-2012 in order to be uploaded by the final deadline. Cheers, -Benson --Apple-Mail-3--62698189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
The draft minutes from ARMD's meeting at IETF-82 have been posted at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/minutes/armd.txt

Thanks to Sue Hares for taking notes.

Please review the minutes and let the chairs know if there are any mistakes, omissions, etc.  Any corrections must be submitted to the chairs by 4-January-2012 in order to be uploaded by the final deadline.

Cheers,
-Benson

--Apple-Mail-3--62698189-- From bschlies@cisco.com Thu Dec 15 16:32:17 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C14711E809A for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:32:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9aNjQcHFUJfu for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71751F0C57 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:32:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bschlies@cisco.com; l=5120; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1323995536; x=1325205136; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version; bh=WCrmQZSzuibQ6DewN8xh/rNtPz10kyYrk4YxTrH21YY=; b=VkwG91OCmC318w5rJS7cS5f/IgES2WzdsiV93sC5F4wnyjI8ZVeWBA48 wYqkdJGefzFN4EpVHW2Oq16iCYJJUcxqVNIUMOVF9r+DwEPXqfuZwWHoV NdaB4MWuSM2AkL/aBU+BQs3z4LuRab8NV+p3Iv5kJ9kj0e9EKrzDpMuBb E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvwEAPCQ6k6rRDoJ/2dsb2JhbABDq0GBBYF3FAEFViqBOxmHYJkXgSYBnkaLIWMEiDSMQpJK X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,360,1320624000"; d="scan'208,217";a="20987270" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2011 00:32:16 +0000 Received: from sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com (sjc-bschlies-8919.cisco.com [10.20.217.234]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBG0WFQm005984 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:32:16 GMT From: Benson Schliesser Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--56531772 Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:32:15 -0600 Message-Id: To: armd@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [armd] Work Plan - Nov 2011 Milestones X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:32:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4--56531772 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii At the ARMD meeting in Taipei (IETF-82) there was a fairly productive = discussion of our milestones and next steps. Much of the discussion is = captured in our minutes, and the discussion slides are posted at = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/slides/armd-3.pdf for those that wish = to review them. It was preceded by a message I posted to the mailing = list, archived at = http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/armd/current/msg00339.html. Based on the meeting discussion, the chairs are proposing the following: 1. We intend to merge draft-armd-datacenter-reference-arch into = draft-ietf-armd-problem-statement. The WG will have an opportunity to = review the resulting document, comment, and contribute any additional = text. Unless there is such activity it will be quickly moved to = last-call. 2. There was interest in having more data in the ARP/ND statistics = document draft-karir-armd-statistics-01, but there was little interest = in contributing such data. Unless there are contributions to this = document in the near future it will be moved to last-call. 3. The Survey of Existing Implementations milestone was deemed useful, = but there were no volunteers to work on it. Unless somebody commits to = produce text on this topic we will drop the milestone from our work = plan. 4. The Survey of Security milestone was less interesting to the = participants in Taipei. Unless there is specific interest in this = milestone, including one or more committed contributors, we will drop = this milestone from our work plan. Please feel free to respond directly or to the mailing list with = feedback, questions, etc. If there is no negative feedback in the next = couple weeks, then the chairs will assume the above proposal has = consensus. Cheers, -Benson & Linda PS - As a reminder, our next milestones are due in March 2012. These = include one or more Recommendation drafts as well as a Gap Analysis = draft. Keep in mind that these documents should be based on the issues = described in our Problem Statement, so please review the current text! --Apple-Mail-4--56531772 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii http://www.i= etf.org/proceedings/82/slides/armd-3.pdf for those that wish to = review them.  It was preceded by a message I posted to the = mailing list, archived at h= ttp://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/armd/current/msg00339.html.<= div>
Based on the meeting discussion, the chairs are = proposing the following:

1. We intend to = merge draft-armd-datacenter-reference-arch = into draft-ietf-armd-problem-statement. The WG will have an = opportunity to review the resulting document, comment, and contribute = any additional text.  Unless there is such activity it will be = quickly moved to last-call.

2. There was = interest in having more data in the ARP/ND statistics document = draft-karir-armd-statistics-01, but there was little interest in = contributing such data. Unless there are contributions to this document = in the near future it will be moved to = last-call.

3. The Survey of Existing = Implementations milestone was deemed useful, but there were no = volunteers to work on it. Unless somebody commits to produce text on = this topic we will drop the milestone from our work = plan.

4. The Survey of Security milestone = was less interesting to the participants in Taipei. Unless there is = specific interest in this milestone, including one or more committed = contributors, we will drop this milestone from our work = plan.

Please feel free to respond directly or = to the mailing list with feedback, questions, etc.  If there is no = negative feedback in the next couple weeks, then the chairs will assume = the above proposal has = consensus.

Cheers,
-Benson & = Linda

PS - As a reminder, our next = milestones are due in March 2012. These include one or more = Recommendation drafts as well as a Gap Analysis draft.  Keep in = mind that these documents should be based on the issues described in our = Problem Statement, so please review the current = text!

= --Apple-Mail-4--56531772-- From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Dec 22 22:39:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC9211E80DC; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 22:39:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.857 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.857 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dy952nuKUbPk; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 22:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB0621F8AAC; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 22:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LWN00JOR94TH9@szxga04-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:38:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LWN00FZW94LO9@szxga04-in.huawei.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:38:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxeml207-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA) with ESMTP id AFW98823; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:38:43 +0800 Received: from SZXEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.32) by szxeml207-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:38:41 +0800 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.55]) by szxeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.32]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:38:41 +0800 Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:38:40 +0000 From: Xuxiaohu X-Originating-IP: [10.108.4.80] To: "Eggert, Lars" , "dc@ietf.org" , "dcrg-interest@irtf.org" Message-id: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Thread-topic: IP over IP solution for data center interconnect Thread-index: AQHMwT2CzwDYBIw29UGeVkQ77HSrWQ== X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected References: Cc: "armd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [armd] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:39:06 -0000 DQo+IC0tLS0t08q8/tStvP4tLS0tLQ0KPiC3orz+yMs6IFh1eGlhb2h1DQo+ILeiy83KsbzkOiAy MDExxOoxMtTCMjLI1SAxNjoyOA0KPiDK1bz+yMs6ICdFZ2dlcnQsIExhcnMnOyBkY0BpZXRmLm9y ZzsgJ2RjcmctaW50ZXJlc3RAaXJ0Zi5vcmcuJw0KPiDW98ziOiBJUCBvdmVyIElQIHNvbHV0aW9u IGZvciBkYXRhIGNlbnRlciBpbnRlcmNvbm5lY3QNCj4gDQo+IEhpIGFsbCwNCj4gDQo+IFRoZXJl IGhhcyBiZWVuIGEgbG90IG9mIEwyIG92ZXIgTDMgc29sdXRpb25zIG9yIHByb3Bvc2FscyBmb3Ig ZGF0YSBjZW50ZXINCj4gbmV0d29yayBhbmQgZGF0YSBjZW50ZXIgaW50ZXJjb25uZWN0IHRpbGwg bm93LiBIb3dldmVyLCBpdCBzZWVtcyByZWNlbnRseQ0KPiB0aGVyZSBhcmUgaW5jcmVhc2luZyBp bnRlcmVzdHMgb24gTDMgb3ZlciBMMyAoZS5nLiwgSVAgb3ZlciBJUCkgc29sdXRpb25zIGZvciBk YXRhDQo+IGNlbnRlciBuZXR3b3JrIGFuZCBkYXRhIGNlbnRlciBpbnRlcmNvbm5lY3QsIHBsZWFz ZSBzZWUgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyB0ZXh0DQo+IHF1b3RlZCBmcm9tIElFVEY4MiBMMlZQTiBtaW51 dGVzDQo+ICggaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcHJvY2VlZGluZ3MvODIvbWludXRlcy9sMnZw 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L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGNyZy1pbnRlcmVzdA0KPiA+DQo+ID4gVGhlcmUgaGFzIG5vdCBi ZWVuIG11Y2ggYWN0aXZpdHkgdG93YXJkcyB0aGUgZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9mIGFuIElSVEYgUkcgc2lu Y2UNCj4gPiBTSUdDT01NLCBidXQgSSBhbSBob3BlZnVsIHRoYXQgdGhlIGhpZ2ggZW5lcmd5IGxl dmVsIGRlbW9uc3RyYXRlZCBpbiB0aGUNCj4gPiB2YXJpb3VzIFRhaXBlaSBtZWV0aW5ncyBvbiB0 aGUgdG9waWMgd2lsbCBpbmplY3Qgc29tZSBlbmVyZ3kgaGVyZSAtIHNldmVyYWwgb2YNCj4gPiB0 aGUgdG9waWNzIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHRvbyBlYXJseSBmb3IgdGhlIElFVEYgdG8gc3RhbmRhcmRp emUgYXJvdW5kIHdvdWxkIGZpdA0KPiBhbg0KPiA+IElSVEYgUkcgdmVyeSB3ZWxsLiBJJ20gY2Vy dGFpbmx5IHN1cHBvcnRpdmUgb2YgdGhpcy4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IExhcnMNCj4gPiBJUlRGIENoYWly DQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IC0tDQo+ID4gTW9iaWxlIG51bWJlciBkdXJpbmcgRGVjZW1iZXI6ICAg ICszNTggNDYgNTIxNTU4Mg0KPiA+IE1vYmlsZSBudW1iZXIgc3RhcnRpbmcgSmFudWFyeTogICs0 OSAxNTEgMTIwNTU3OTENCg0K From bschlies@cisco.com Fri Dec 23 09:44:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3230721F8549; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:44:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.142 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.142 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.458, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AnF-tmGOAbfH; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7335721F8512; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bschlies@cisco.com; l=1417; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1324662290; x=1325871890; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ms3r2r0VUx1n32sAdAYF37wjBTVhmftj7ETXWvpN4RU=; b=aKOAgCFNWWBaAS9A3Ly2FpkDAoUfKvWSEqGisdl0MaF8gcywNyWTrEOm D8rDSeaHL/tLJoeNOz+Oj6db6i0nwJeVI57tOhXDVnyB6BLCC8vRyz0/h jmvhN3iG7Jt1q3PPS7+tZARDNBUnOy7O3uRQHyRRgXHFMXNGFvUs0XCtq Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAJW99E6tJV2a/2dsb2JhbABDrDeBBYFyAQEBAwESASc0CwULC0ZXBi4Hh1iZLAGeGYssYwSIN4xLhU+NBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,400,1320624000"; d="scan'208";a="46525420" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Dec 2011 17:44:50 +0000 Received: from [192.168.226.197] (rtp-vpn3-223.cisco.com [10.82.216.223]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBNHinZC001261; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:44:49 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Benson Schliesser In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:44:48 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9BD2028E-A6B7-478F-8CFA-95F1A832611B@cisco.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> To: Xuxiaohu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: dcrg-interest@irtf.org, "Eggert, Lars" , dc@ietf.org, armd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [armd] [dcrg-interest] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:44:51 -0000 On Dec 23, 2011, at 12:38 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > By the way, the ARP table scaling issue on DC gateways, which is = deemed by the ARMD WG as the only worthy ARP problem in data center = networks, could also be solved with the IP over IP solution. Two comments: First, if anybody is interested in exploring additional address = resolution issues in the datacenter, please speak up now on the ARMD = mailing list. We are attempting to finish our Problem Statement soon. = The Problem Statement will only include those issues that are described = by WG contributors. So if you think we should deem other issues to be = worthy problems, please contribute to the discussion. Second, at a high-level I think that a number of ARMD participants will = agree with your comment about ARP scale issues being solved by "IP over = IP" solutions. In fact, it's not just IP-over-IP that can help. Any = map-and-encap scheme, including L2-over-IP, can help by shifting the = burden to a mapping mechanism. Local ARP/ND proxy functions (e.g. in the = VM v-switch, TOR, etc) could take advantage of the mapping mechanism to = facilitate address resolution. In my personal opinion: The real problem is figuring out how to do the = mapping, what the right mapping approach is for a datacenter, etc. This = is the topic of the NVO3 effort that was discussed during L2VPN in = Taipei. Cheers, -Benson From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Fri Dec 23 17:27:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EC521F86B3; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.251, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1JVdqO7Jrd6; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB0F21F85A8; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LWO00KKAPDGLM@szxga03-in.huawei.com>; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:27:16 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LWO003UEPDFVR@szxga03-in.huawei.com>; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:27:16 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA) with ESMTP id AFX42859; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:27:13 +0800 Received: from SZXEML420-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.159) by szxeml206-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:27:10 +0800 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.55]) by szxeml420-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.159]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:27:09 +0800 Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:27:09 +0000 From: Xuxiaohu In-reply-to: <9BD2028E-A6B7-478F-8CFA-95F1A832611B@cisco.com> X-Originating-IP: [10.108.4.80] To: Benson Schliesser Message-id: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762FC9@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Thread-topic: [dcrg-interest] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect Thread-index: AQHMwT2CzwDYBIw29UGeVkQ77HSrWZXpLIkAgAD+00A= X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <9BD2028E-A6B7-478F-8CFA-95F1A832611B@cisco.com> Cc: "dcrg-interest@irtf.org" , "Eggert, Lars" , "dc@ietf.org" , "armd@ietf.org" Subject: [armd] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogW2RjcmctaW50ZXJlc3RdIElQIG92ZXIgSVAg?= =?gb2312?b?c29sdXRpb24gZm9yIGRhdGEgY2VudGVyIGludGVyY29ubmVjdA==?= X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:27:33 -0000 DQo+IC0tLS0t08q8/tStvP4tLS0tLQ0KPiC3orz+yMs6IEJlbnNvbiBTY2hsaWVzc2VyIFttYWls dG86YnNjaGxpZXNAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0KPiC3osvNyrG85DogMjAxMcTqMTLUwjI0yNUgMTo0NQ0K PiDK1bz+yMs6IFh1eGlhb2h1DQo+ILOty806IEVnZ2VydCwgTGFyczsgZGNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRj cmctaW50ZXJlc3RAaXJ0Zi5vcmc7IGFybWRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g1vfM4jogUmU6IFtkY3JnLWlu dGVyZXN0XSBJUCBvdmVyIElQIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvciBkYXRhIGNlbnRlciBpbnRlcmNvbm5lY3QN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiBPbiBEZWMgMjMsIDIwMTEsIGF0IDEyOjM4IEFNLCBYdXhpYW9odSB3cm90ZToN Cj4gDQo+ID4gQnkgdGhlIHdheSwgdGhlIEFSUCB0YWJsZSBzY2FsaW5nIGlzc3VlIG9uIERDIGdh dGV3YXlzLCB3aGljaCBpcyBkZWVtZWQgYnkNCj4gdGhlIEFSTUQgV0cgYXMgdGhlIG9ubHkgd29y dGh5IEFSUCBwcm9ibGVtIGluIGRhdGEgY2VudGVyIG5ldHdvcmtzLCBjb3VsZA0KPiBhbHNvIGJl IHNvbHZlZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBJUCBvdmVyIElQIHNvbHV0aW9uLg0KPiANCj4gVHdvIGNvbW1lbnRz Og0KPiANCj4gRmlyc3QsIGlmIGFueWJvZHkgaXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBleHBsb3JpbmcgYWRk aXRpb25hbCBhZGRyZXNzIHJlc29sdXRpb24gaXNzdWVzIGluDQo+IHRoZSBkYXRhY2VudGVyLCBw bGVhc2Ugc3BlYWsgdXAgbm93IG9uIHRoZSBBUk1EIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdC4gV2UgYXJlDQo+IGF0 dGVtcHRpbmcgdG8gZmluaXNoIG91ciBQcm9ibGVtIFN0YXRlbWVudCBzb29uLiBUaGUgUHJvYmxl bSBTdGF0ZW1lbnQgd2lsbA0KPiBvbmx5IGluY2x1ZGUgdGhvc2UgaXNzdWVzIHRoYXQgYXJlIGRl c2NyaWJlZCBieSBXRyBjb250cmlidXRvcnMuIFNvIGlmIHlvdSB0aGluaw0KPiB3ZSBzaG91bGQg ZGVlbSBvdGhlciBpc3N1ZXMgdG8gYmUgd29ydGh5IHByb2JsZW1zLCBwbGVhc2UgY29udHJpYnV0 ZSB0byB0aGUNCj4gZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCj4gDQo+IFNlY29uZCwgYXQgYSBoaWdoLWxldmVsIEkg dGhpbmsgdGhhdCBhIG51bWJlciBvZiBBUk1EIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cyB3aWxsIGFncmVlDQo+IHdp dGggeW91ciBjb21tZW50IGFib3V0IEFSUCBzY2FsZSBpc3N1ZXMgYmVpbmcgc29sdmVkIGJ5ICJJ UCBvdmVyIElQIg0KPiBzb2x1dGlvbnMuIEluIGZhY3QsIGl0J3Mgbm90IGp1c3QgSVAtb3Zlci1J UCB0aGF0IGNhbiBoZWxwLiBBbnkgbWFwLWFuZC1lbmNhcA0KPiBzY2hlbWUsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBM Mi1vdmVyLUlQLCBjYW4gaGVscCBieSBzaGlmdGluZyB0aGUgYnVyZGVuIHRvIGEgbWFwcGluZw0K PiBtZWNoYW5pc20uIExvY2FsIEFSUC9ORCBwcm94eSBmdW5jdGlvbnMgKGUuZy4gaW4gdGhlIFZN IHYtc3dpdGNoLCBUT1IsIGV0YykNCj4gY291bGQgdGFrZSBhZHZhbnRhZ2Ugb2YgdGhlIG1hcHBp bmcgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHRvIGZhY2lsaXRhdGUgYWRkcmVzcw0KPiByZXNvbHV0aW9uLg0KDQoNCkFz IGZvciBMMiBvdmVyIElQIHNvbHV0aW9ucywgSSBhZ3JlZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBBUlAgYnJvYWRjYXN0 IGZsb29kIGltcGFjdCBvbiB0aGUgc2VydmVycy9yb3V0ZXJzIGFuZCBuZXR3b3JrcyBjb3VsZCBi ZSBhbGxldmlhdGVkIGJ5IHVzaW5nIHRoZSBBUlAgY2FjaGUgbWVjaGFuaXNtICh0b29scy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9wZGYvZHJhZnQtc2hhaC1hcm1kLWFycC1yZWR1Y3Rpb24tMDIudHh0KSBvciBzb21lIEFS UCBtYXBwaW5nIHN5c3RlbS4NCg0KSG93ZXZlciwgc2luY2UgdGhlIERDIGdhdGV3YXlzIHVzdWFs bHkgbmVlZCB0byBmb3J3YXJkIHRyYWZmaWMgdG8gc28gbWFueSBob3N0cyBhdCBtb3N0IHRpbWUs IHRoZXkgbmVlZCBhIHZlcnkgbGFyZ2UgQVJQIGNhY2hlIHRhYmxlIHRvIGNvbnRhaW4gc28gbWFu eSBBUlAgZW50cmllcy4gT3RoZXJ3aXNlLCB0aGUgQVJQIGNhY2hlIGFnaW5nLW91dCB0aW1lciBz aG91bGQgYmUgc2V0IHNob3J0IGVub3VnaC4gSW4gdGhlIHdheSwgdGhlIERDIGdhdGV3YXlzIHdv dWxkIGhhdmUgdG8gc2VuZCBBUlAgcmVxdWVzdHMgbW9yZSBmcmVxdWVudGx5LCBpbiBhZGRpdGlv biwgdGhlIGdhdGV3YXlzIGFyZSByZXF1aXJlZCB0byBoYXZlIGEgbXVjaCBsYXJnZSBwYWNrZXQg Y2FjaGUgdG8gY2FjaGUgdGhlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHBhY2tldHMgZGVzdGluZWQgZm9yIHRoZSBob3N0 cyBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIEFSUCByZXNwb25zZXMgZm9yIHRoZW0gYXJlIHJldHVybmVkLCBvdGhlcndp c2UgdGhlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHBhY2tldHMgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBiZSBkaXNjYXJkZWQgd2hlbiB0 aGUgY2FjaGUgaXMgb3ZlcmZsb3dlZC4gSW4gYSB3b3JkLCBJIGRvbid0IGtub3cgaG93IHRoZSBt YXBwaW5nIHN5c3RlbSBjb3VsZCBoZWxwIG9uIHRoaXMgQVJQIHRhYmxlIHNjYWxpbmcgaXNzdWUu DQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNClhpYW9odQ0KDQo+IEluIG15IHBlcnNvbmFsIG9waW5pb246IFRo ZSByZWFsIHByb2JsZW0gaXMgZmlndXJpbmcgb3V0IGhvdyB0byBkbyB0aGUgbWFwcGluZywNCj4g d2hhdCB0aGUgcmlnaHQgbWFwcGluZyBhcHByb2FjaCBpcyBmb3IgYSBkYXRhY2VudGVyLCBldGMu ICBUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSB0b3BpYyBvZg0KPiB0aGUgTlZPMyBlZmZvcnQgdGhhdCB3YXMgZGlzY3Vz c2VkIGR1cmluZyBMMlZQTiBpbiBUYWlwZWkuDQo+IA0KPiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+IC1CZW5zb24NCj4g DQoNCg== From adalela@cisco.com Mon Dec 26 22:13:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE8121F8551; 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X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApMAAKpg+U5Io8UY/2dsb2JhbABChQ+WWpFkgXIBAQEDAQEBAQ8BHTUDAwMLDAQCAQYCEQQBAQUGBhcBBAIBJh8JCAIEAQoICBMHh1gIlxwBjFUIkROBK4lKN2MEiDWfCQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,414,1320624000"; d="scan'208";a="2369141" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-2.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Dec 2011 06:13:47 +0000 Received: from xbh-bgl-411.cisco.com (xbh-bgl-411.cisco.com [72.163.129.201]) by bgl-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pBR6DDEB012522; Tue, 27 Dec 2011 06:13:47 GMT Received: from xmb-bgl-416.cisco.com ([72.163.129.212]) by xbh-bgl-411.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:43:15 +0530 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:43:15 +0530 Message-ID: <618BE8B40039924EB9AED233D4A09C5102B250DA@XMB-BGL-416.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [armd] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect Thread-Index: AQHMwT2CzwDYBIw29UGeVkQ77HSrWZXvI1zQ References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE762EB4@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> From: "Ashish Dalela (adalela)" To: "Xuxiaohu" , "Eggert, Lars" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Dec 2011 06:13:15.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EE80F00:01CCC45E] Cc: armd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [armd] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 06:13:52 -0000 For all the proponents of L3, here is a thought. The biggest concern in cloud is data protection. That is just make or = break. Data can't move when the VM moves. It's just too expensive and = time consuming. Further, to reduce disk wastage you have to put data on = network storage. That's just easy for data backup, and cheap in terms of = total disk space you need. There is a lot going on here in terms of data = de-duplication. Now given network storage, you have two options - NAS and SAN. On the cloud each VM administrator has root privileges. And IP and MAC = addresses can be duplicated (if you are root just configure any IP and = MAC on a virtual interface of choice). So, you have to protect the = network storage from multiple tenants who can have the same IP address = and MAC address. NAS assumes your id on the UNIX is globally unique and = your permissions are unique - not true anymore. So, you have IP, MAC and = ID duplication. That means that if you have to protect data, you have to know somehow = which host is allowed to see which disks. Doing this end-to-end using = TCP/IP is problematic because the NAS controller doesn't know about = tenant id, and whether the MAC and IP are being duplicated across = customers. To make the storage aware of segmentation, you have to carry = some segment (GRE, MPLS, VLAN, etc.) into the storage box. That's not = true today. Network level isolation happens in SAN, but not in NAS. NAS just runs = end-to-end over TCP. In SAN you can say which host will see which disk. = The FC security is high because MAC and FC-ID is assigned by the network = and not in the control of the host. The network knows which port is = which host/MAC. So, if you only know which port is which customer, you = know which MAC can see which disk. Binding a port to a customer is not = hard. But mapping all of that to data security and disk visibility is = not trivial. E.g. you have to do GRE tunnel mapping to a set of disk = permissions. Who needs that? SAN does not use IP. It uses Fiber Channel. With convergence, we are = moving to FC over Ethernet (FCoE). FCIP and iSCSI have not worked very = well. Security for data comes from FC and lowering of cost comes from = use of FCoE. That needs native Ethernet (no IP).=20 When you have site-to-site VM mobility, data is not moving across sites. = E.g. an application server will connect to a set of load-balanced set of = database servers within a VLAN. The application and database servers can = be different sites, and they connect over a VLAN. Alternately, the = application and database servers can be in the same location and the DB = server accesses the SAN over the Internet. Even if data is replicated = across many sites, load-balancing across application or db servers uses = VLANs. In HPC as well, there is a lot of broadcast and discovery, and = this may use IP or not, the fact is that it depends on broadcast. The = HPC case externalizes the memory on a host to other hosts through RDMA. = Everything to do with Big Data will rely on this, and besides disk = externalization we will also see increase in memory externalization. I = just went to a IEEE HPC cloud conference :-) L3 assumes that all data (disk and memory) is inside the host. That = assumption changed a decade ago. Cloud just increases the distribution. = Just as compute is optimized by muxing the VMs on a physical machine, = storage is optimized by consolidating data separately on storage devices = and memory by hosting it in different hosts. Network has to deal with = all types of traffic and security/isolation (imagine someone changing = memory over the network). Storage and memory traffic uses L2. To = discover each other, hosts use L2. These L2 domains need to span across = sites and within the site. This are not corner cases. This is just central to what cloud means in = the long run.=20 Thanks, Ashish -----Original Message----- From: armd-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:armd-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Xuxiaohu Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:09 PM To: Eggert, Lars; dc@ietf.org; dcrg-interest@irtf.org Cc: armd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [armd] IP over IP solution for data center interconnect > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xuxiaohu > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA12=D4=C222=C8=D5 16:28 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: 'Eggert, Lars'; dc@ietf.org; = 'dcrg-interest@irtf.org.' > =D6=F7=CC=E2: IP over IP solution for data center interconnect >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > There has been a lot of L2 over L3 solutions or proposals for data = center > network and data center interconnect till now. However, it seems = recently > there are increasing interests on L3 over L3 (e.g., IP over IP) = solutions for data > center network and data center interconnect, please see the following = text > quoted from IETF82 L2VPN minutes > ( https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/minutes/l2vpn.txt). It's a = general belief > that L3 is more scalable than L2. Especially when considering the data = center > interconnection case, the L3 over L3 solutions can bring DC operators = more > benefits compared to the L2 over L3 solutions, such as path = optimization, > active-active data centers, MAC table reduction on DC switches and = broadcast > flood suppression etc . By the way, the ARP table scaling issue on DC gateways, which is deemed = by the ARMD WG as the only worthy ARP problem in data center networks, = could also be solved with the IP over IP solution. Best regards, Xiaohu =20 >=20 > Although Layer 2 connectivity is still required for some = high-availability clusters > which use non-IP and link-local multicast for communication, more and = more > cluster vendors are either already able to support cluster services at = Layer3 or > will support it in the near future. In addition, the GSLB mechanism = (e.g., DNS > based GSLB) works very well in most cases, is geo-cluster service = still a > common requirement for data center interconnect? If not, could we = spend any > time on exploring the possibility of using L3 over L3 solution for the = most data > center interconnection scenarios where geo-clustering, especially = non-IP based > geo-clustering is not needed? >=20 > Best regards, > Xiaohu >=20 > **************************************************************** > ********************************************************** > Kireeti: I keep seeing ISID, PBB, VLANs. We have to stop conceding to = layer 2 > and start moving to layer 3 (applause) and lots of problems will go = away. >=20 > Florin: We should put VPN on the same page to modify the priorities. = You need > to expand so can look at L3 over L3 as well as L2 over L3. For item = number 2 we > need to look at L3 transport as well as Ethernet and MPLS. And for = number 3 > we need to work on this as there's a lot of expertise in L2, L3 and = other WGs. >=20 >=20 > Marc: The problem statement needs to include more of the L3 issues = around > sending L2 over L3, as the L2 traffic already contains L3. Issue is = just framing. >=20 > Eric Nordmark; "Yes, Yes and Yes". We need to focus from the DC = prospective > and not from the VPN view. don't just think about Ethernet over IP, = but also IP > over IP. Hypervisor may get decoupled over time. > **************************************************************** > ********************************************************** > > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: dc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dc-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Eggert, > Lars > > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA12=D4=C216=C8=D5 16:24 > > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: dc@ietf.org > > =D6=F7=CC=E2: [dc] IRTF datacenter research group discussion list > > > > Hi, > > > > I wanted to make you all aware of the IRTF's dcrg-interest mailing = list, which > > was set up following a face-to-face meeting at SIGCOMM this year to = discuss > a > > possible IRTF research group on datacenter networking: > > http://irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrg-interest > > > > There has not been much activity towards the formation of an IRTF RG = since > > SIGCOMM, but I am hopeful that the high energy level demonstrated in = the > > various Taipei meetings on the topic will inject some energy here - = several of > > the topics that may be too early for the IETF to standardize around = would fit > an > > IRTF RG very well. I'm certainly supportive of this. > > > > Lars > > IRTF Chair > > > > > > -- > > Mobile number during December: +358 46 5215582 > > Mobile number starting January: +49 151 12055791 _______________________________________________ armd mailing list armd@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/armd