From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 01 16:31:15 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EtAnI-0005fp-JN
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:31:15 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15230
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:29:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k01LL2Vo011992;
	Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:21:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k01LL2Xj011991;
	Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:21:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k01LL2UW011985
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:21:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 91520 invoked by uid 17064); 1 Jan 2006 21:20:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([83.112.140.72])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; 1 Jan 2006 21:20:57 -0000
To: Underwood Walter <wunder@verity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-97--1070529493
Message-Id: <9CB69A31-F64C-4B1F-BAA3-DBDA866B991F@bblfish.net>
Cc: Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>, atom-owl@googlegroups.com,
        atom-syntax Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        bloged <users@bloged.dev.java.net>,
        Phipps Simon <Simon.Phipps@Sun.COM>
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:17:45 +0100
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>



--Apple-Mail-97--1070529493
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 24 Dec 2005, at 00:32, Walter Underwood wrote:
> --On December 23, 2005 11:31:22 PM +0100 Henry Story  
> <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
>>
>> So  you can't have a link pointing from an entry to an id, without  
>> losing some
>> very important information. We need something more  specific. We  
>> need a link
>> pointing from A to C as shown by the blue line.
>
> Some people will need that in the guts of their publishing system.  
> Why do
> we need it in Atom? Is there something essential that subscribers  
> cannot do
> because this isn't represented?

Yes there are many such uses that good translation information make  
possible. Without precise information telling us what an entry is a  
translation of it is difficult for multilingual sites to tell their  
readers what entries they need to read for their linguistic  
preferences. In multilingual countries like Switzerland, Canada, or  
for the European Union this is very important information. As was  
mentioned in a previous post the Swiss have three official languages,  
and they cannot publish something in one language without also  
publishing it in another. We should try to satisfy their needs within  
a well designed framework.

> This sounds like something needed for the publishing/translation  
> workflow, not for the general readership.

Not the general US readership certainly. But in other countries, such  
as Belgium people do speak different languages. If they come across  
an entry in one language it would be politically correct, if not a  
political necessity, to help them find the version in the language  
they feel most at home in.

Translation metadata can also be very useful to in many other  
regards. Google is working on a translation tool that learns by  
finding vast amount of translated documents on the web and using that  
body of work to create machine translation tools that learn from  
examples. This is clearly going to be a very fruitful area in  
improving machine translation tools. Ever since I was involved in  
launching the Babelfish at AltaVista, machine translation has become  
a 'must have' service for a respectable search engine. There are too  
many languages pairs for it to be practical for this type of  
technology to be entirely coded by hand.

> Extended provenance information is sometimes needed, but there is  
> almost
> no limit to that. It certainly does not stop at translation,  
> source, and
> translator. I'm reading a new translation of Andersen's tales where
> "Thumbelina" is "Inchelina" because the translator knew the right  
> dialect
> of Danish. That is significant, but does it need to be in Atom?

Well we don't need to specify all the translation information of  
course: what dictionaries were used, who the translator was. If we  
can it would of course be nice to make sure we don't exclude those  
options.

> The semantics here should be exactly the same as for dates -- the date
> means what the publisher thinks it means. Same for language info.  
> Trying
> to get more exact means that the model will be wrong for some  
> publishers
> that generate completely legal Atom.

I don't think that the models we are looking at are too difficult  
either for publishers to understand or for consumers to consume. At  
least we should look at the options before we come to the conclusion  
that is the case.

We currently have discovered three types of translation relations:
   - idTranslation: relates an Entry (Version) to an id
   - eTranslation: relates an Entry (Version) to an Entry
   - cTranslation: relates a Content to a Content.

They are clearly distinguished in the following example graph:


--Apple-Mail-97--1070529493
Content-Type: application/pdf;
	x-mac-type=70646620;
	x-unix-mode=0644;
	x-mac-hide-extension=yes;
	name="translation-problem-2.pdf"
Content-Disposition: inline;
	filename=translation-problem-2.pdf
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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=

--Apple-Mail-97--1070529493
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=ISO-8859-1;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


These three relations are equally real. They are complimentary in =20
that we can find rules to lead us from one to the other. They are, I =20
believe non contradictory. And I think we can even specify the rules =20
for inferring one from the other.

A. if an Entry A has an idTranslation relation to an atom id, then =20
one of the atom entries with that
   id has a eTranslation relation to the subject of the first entry.
   So since _:A xxx:idTranslation <tag:eg.com,2005/en/atom03> we know =20=

that there is some entry X with the same id, such that _:A =20
xxx:eTranslation _:X. In the graph above C is our X.
   in N3 this can be written as (I think)

    { ?e xxx:idTranslation ?id } =3D> { ?c :id ?id. ?e xxx:eTanslation ?=20=

c. }.

B. if an entry is an eTranslation of another entry, then the titles, =20
content and summaries of those entries stand in a cTranslation =20
relation to each other.
    So since _:A xxx:eTranslation _:C, we know that:
      - "Robots Atomiques se r=E9voltent"@fr is a tranlsation of "Atom =20=

powered Robots Run Amok"@en
      - "Apres un cours d'integration en Philosophie Fran=E7aise..." is =20=

a translation of "After a course of integration in French =20
Philosophy..."@en
    in N3 this can be written as:

    { ?e1 xxx:eTranslation ?e2. } =3D> { ?e1 :title ?t1;
                                           :summary ?s1;
                                           :content ?c1.
                                       ?e2 :title ?t2;
                                           :summary ?s2;
                                           :content ?c2.
                                       ?t1 xxx:cTranslation ?t1.
                                       ?s1 xxx:cTranslation ?s1.
                                       ?c1 xxx:cTranslation ?c1.
                                     }.


Now that we are clear about the relations we are speaking about =20
(though there is certainly some
debate possible about whether better rules could be found), we just =20
need to find the best way to
express this in the atom syntax we so dearly love.


Henry Story

> wunder
> --
> Walter Underwood
> Principal Software Architect, Verity


--Apple-Mail-97--1070529493--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 01 17:39:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EtBri-0007gf-F0
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:39:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19954
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:38:35 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k01MM3Wa019199;
	Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:22:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k01MM3hA019198;
	Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:22:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k01MM3OV019191
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:22:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 17406 invoked by uid 17064); 1 Jan 2006 22:21:59 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([83.112.140.72])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <wunder@verity.com>; 1 Jan 2006 22:21:59 -0000
In-Reply-To: <9CB69A31-F64C-4B1F-BAA3-DBDA866B991F@bblfish.net>
References: <9CB69A31-F64C-4B1F-BAA3-DBDA866B991F@bblfish.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-101--1066872467
Message-Id: <F36DAE59-C4B4-4A07-8A2D-19E556F64FC4@bblfish.net>
Cc: Underwood Walter <wunder@verity.com>,
        Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>, atom-owl@googlegroups.com,
        atom-syntax Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        bloged <users@bloged.dev.java.net>,
        Phipps Simon <Simon.Phipps@Sun.COM>
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:21:57 +0100
To: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>



--Apple-Mail-101--1066872467
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just noticed that there was a slight error in my previous diagram.  
I had given all three entries (A, B and C) the same id. I have now  
rectified this. The id of A which is the english entry has a  
different id from that of B and C. Since graphs should try to merge  
elements that are the same, I have here also merged the contents of B  
and C.

--Apple-Mail-101--1066872467
Content-Type: application/pdf;
	x-mac-type=70646620;
	x-unix-mode=0644;
	x-mac-hide-extension=yes;
	name="translation-problem-2.pdf"
Content-Disposition: inline;
	filename=translation-problem-2.pdf
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--Apple-Mail-101--1066872467
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=ISO-8859-1;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 30 Dec 2005, at 15:17, Henry Story wrote:
> [snip]
> We currently have discovered three types of translation relations:
>   - idTranslation: relates an Entry (Version) to an id
>   - eTranslation: relates an Entry (Version) to an Entry
>   - cTranslation: relates a Content to a Content.
>
> They are clearly distinguished in the following example graph:
>
> <translation-problem-2.pdf>
>
> These three relations are equally real. They are complimentary in =20
> that we can find rules to lead us from one to the other. They are, =20
> I believe non contradictory. And I think we can even specify the =20
> rules for inferring one from the other.
>
> A. if an Entry A has an idTranslation relation to an atom id, then =20
> one of the atom entries with that
>   id has a eTranslation relation to the subject of the first entry.
>   So since _:A xxx:idTranslation <tag:eg.com,2005/en/atom03> we =20
> know that there is some entry X with the same id, such that _:A =20
> xxx:eTranslation _:X. In the graph above C is our X.
>   in N3 this can be written as (I think)
>
>    { ?e xxx:idTranslation ?id } =3D> { ?c :id ?id. ?e =20
> xxx:eTanslation ?c. }.
>
> B. if an entry is an eTranslation of another entry, then the =20
> titles, content and summaries of those entries stand in a =20
> cTranslation relation to each other.
>    So since _:A xxx:eTranslation _:C, we know that:
>      - "Robots Atomiques se r=E9voltent"@fr is a tranlsation of "Atom =20=

> powered Robots Run Amok"@en
>      - "Apres un cours d'integration en Philosophie Fran=E7aise..." =20=

> is a translation of "After a course of integration in French =20
> Philosophy..."@en
>    in N3 this can be written as:
>
>    { ?e1 xxx:eTranslation ?e2. } =3D> { ?e1 :title ?t1;
>                                           :summary ?s1;
>                                           :content ?c1.
>                                       ?e2 :title ?t2;
>                                           :summary ?s2;
>                                           :content ?c2.
>                                       ?t1 xxx:cTranslation ?t1.
>                                       ?s1 xxx:cTranslation ?s1.
>                                       ?c1 xxx:cTranslation ?c1.
>                                     }.
>
>
> Now that we are clear about the relations we are speaking about =20
> (though there is certainly some
> debate possible about whether better rules could be found), we just =20=

> need to find the best way to
> express this in the atom syntax we so dearly love.
>
>
> Henry Story

--Apple-Mail-101--1066872467--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 03 15:57:17 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EttDZ-0005EG-5O
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:57:17 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00350
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:56:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k03Ko2bY048923;
	Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:50:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k03Ko2p5048919;
	Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:50:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from newodin.ietf.org ([132.151.6.50])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k03Ko2JY048911
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:50:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from mlee@newodin.ietf.org)
Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43)
	id 1Ett6X-00005s-Qo; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:50:01 -0500
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt 
Message-Id: <E1Ett6X-00005s-Qo@newodin.ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:50:01 -0500
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: The Atom Publishing Protocol
	Author(s)	: B. de Hora, J. Gregorio
	Filename	: draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt
	Pages		: 40
	Date		: 2006-1-3
	
The Atom Publishing Protocol (APP) is an application-level protocol
   for publishing and editing Web resources.  The protocol is based on
   HTTP transport of Atom-formatted representations.  The Atom format is
   documented in the Atom Syndication Format (RFC4287).

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.  
You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
to change your subscription settings.


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<2006-1-3112600.I-D@ietf.org>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<2006-1-3112600.I-D@ietf.org>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 16:40:17 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew4kT-0003iK-CC
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:40:17 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00884
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:38:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09LCf45004157;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:12:41 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09LCf7m004156;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:12:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09LCfUt004141
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:12:41 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so29476wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:12:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=KoU8901Zf1y8MGK2E2Ruwjamj6mtRzNEjSQmMG7aZx+jhU/98iS93YuEwXYPTIc1CpLJs21NHNah7nHqvEx+5OEwKfY2U4dNuBt2LBanLMSxm0R0WrFyoJu/OqyLVoxdJXNw0pIjh/ehcT/bv7ZlWsng+yDI/OrteaVAXb+FXgE=
Received: by 10.54.149.8 with SMTP id w8mr8089771wrd;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm3974454wrl.2006.01.09.13.12.34;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:12:51 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Category URI's
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I'm in the process of going through a number of application scenarios 
with Atom and I'm coming up with a problem because I cannot associate a 
URI with a <category> element.

This is mainly coming up in the context of tagging.  I want to be able 
to specify a tag and a URI that can be used to request a list of other 
items associated with that tag.

What I want is:

<category scheme="..."
           term="..."
           href="..." />

What I end up having to do is:

<category scheme="http://.../tag"
           term="foo" />
<link rel="http://.../tag"
       title='foo"
       href=".../?tag=foo" />

Having an href attribute on the Category element strikes me as an 
obviously useful thing that we need to make sure gets into a future 
update of the specification.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 16:42:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew4mv-0004C2-Ln
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:42:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01088
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:41:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09LXXjY006186;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:33:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09LXXoc006185;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:33:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k09LXVKD006155
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:33:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Jan 2006 21:33:25 -0000
Received: from xdsl-84-44-230-207.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [84.44.230.207]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 09 Jan 2006 22:33:25 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:33:37 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
Message-ID: <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA01088


Hi James,

* James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> [2006-01-09 22:25]:
>What I end up having to do is:
>
><category scheme=3D"http://.../tag"
>          term=3D"foo" />
><link rel=3D"http://.../tag"
>      title=3D'foo"
>      href=3D".../?tag=3Dfoo" />

you don=E2=80=99t spell your examples out sufficiently to decode them,
but what you want sounds to me like you should be doing this or
a variation thereof:

    <category
        scheme=3D"http://.../tag"
        term=3D"?tag=3Dfoo"
        label=3D"foo"
    />

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 16:57:24 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew512-00080I-1I
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:57:24 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01984
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:56:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09Lhgrg007143;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:43:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09LhgVq007142;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:43:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09Lhgbf007136
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:43:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so3291561wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:43:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=DfyOq3f0mrFCMsGtYnEIzPNh4zFBtfcn4D8gE7nlZa3xlpqBA+1IzqiKucd+4+/E6zpnfZooNGlD4tBlAJW2eK34muwWbk+U7tSJEZZSTQYx7XpZ0uNYQK0avZvKu0wkHYqTmyEfURAwIjmx3RvbX24fEvHElWO49ebeUjE4K/M=
Received: by 10.54.126.20 with SMTP id y20mr8765830wrc;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:43:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 38sm54151wrl.2006.01.09.13.43.34;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:43:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C2D917.4020705@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:43:51 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum>
In-Reply-To: <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA01984


This makes sense but seems to assume using a scheme+term construction=20
for building a URI, which makes sense in practical impl terms but is not=20
codified in the standard.  The scheme attribute is just an identifier.=20
There is currently no normative means of associating or constructing a=20
URI from a category element.  Doing so should not be a requirement but=20
it should be an option.

A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> Hi James,
>=20
> * James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> [2006-01-09 22:25]:
>> What I end up having to do is:
>>
>> <category scheme=3D"http://.../tag"
>>          term=3D"foo" />
>> <link rel=3D"http://.../tag"
>>      title=3D'foo"
>>      href=3D".../?tag=3Dfoo" />
>=20
> you don=E2=80=99t spell your examples out sufficiently to decode them,
> but what you want sounds to me like you should be doing this or
> a variation thereof:
>=20
>     <category
>         scheme=3D"http://.../tag"
>         term=3D"?tag=3Dfoo"
>         label=3D"foo"
>     />
>=20
> Regards,




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 17:35:59 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew5cN-0002ce-1Q
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:35:59 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04195
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:34:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09MSwEU017073;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09MSwLh017072;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09MSvL3017053
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 76646106E5; Mon,  9 Jan 2006 22:28:55 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum>
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Message-Id: <80DE7AA6-5F62-40BB-BB10-E8ED8FF1E299@fondantfancies.com>
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:28:53 +0000
To: "A.Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 9 Jan 2006, at 9:33 pm, A. Pagaltzis wrote:

>     <category
>         scheme="http://.../tag"
>         term="?tag=foo"
>         label="foo"
>     />

Blurgh.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 18:59:40 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew6vM-00032m-Ht
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:59:40 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10153
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:58:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09Nqh5j031300;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:52:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09NqhwR031299;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:52:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09NqgAh031293
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:52:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179])
	by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09Nqg3F018718
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:52:42 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ISU00A01N9KG500@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:52:42 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [192.168.102.100] ([154.20.170.13])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ISU00DAHNNT49H0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon,
 09 Jan 2006 16:52:42 -0700 (MST)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:52:58 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
In-reply-to: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-id: <0CC68243-FD6A-4CE6-AC27-26547AC48F39@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Jan 9, 2006, at 1:12 PM, James M Snell wrote:

> I'm in the process of going through a number of application  
> scenarios with Atom and I'm coming up with a problem because I  
> cannot associate a URI with a <category> element.

 From my Atom feed:

<category scheme='http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/What/'  
term='Technology/XML' />

The scheme is identified by a URI. -Tim




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 18:59:46 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew6vQ-000333-Co
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:59:46 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10158
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:58:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09NlKLF030915;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:47:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k09NlKPD030914;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:47:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k09NlJRL030896
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:47:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@dehora.net)
Received: from [192.168.2.180] (83-70-225-115.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.225.115])
	by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A9ADB7C6;
	Mon,  9 Jan 2006 23:47:14 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <43C2F5FA.4040402@dehora.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:47:06 +0000
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?= <bill@dehora.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
CC: "A.Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>, atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum> <80DE7AA6-5F62-40BB-BB10-E8ED8FF1E299@fondantfancies.com>
In-Reply-To: <80DE7AA6-5F62-40BB-BB10-E8ED8FF1E299@fondantfancies.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Graham Parks wrote:
> 
> On 9 Jan 2006, at 9:33 pm, A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> 
>>     <category
>>         scheme="http://.../tag"
>>         term="?tag=foo"
>>         label="foo"
>>     />
> 


    <category
        term="http://example.org/cat/foo"
        label="foo"
    />


cheers
Bill




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 19:25:12 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew7K4-0006AA-AQ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:25:12 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12926
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:23:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0G2F6033523;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:16:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A0G23X033522;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:16:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0A0G0UM033489
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:16:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jan 2006 00:15:55 -0000
Received: from xdsl-84-44-230-207.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [84.44.230.207]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 01:15:55 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:16:06 +0100
From: "A.Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
Message-ID: <20060110001606.GJ19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum> <80DE7AA6-5F62-40BB-BB10-E8ED8FF1E299@fondantfancies.com> <43C2F5FA.4040402@dehora.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <43C2F5FA.4040402@dehora.net>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id TAA12926


* Bill de h=C3=93ra <bill@dehora.net> [2006-01-10 00:50]:
>    <category
>        term=3D"http://example.org/cat/foo"
>        label=3D"foo"
>    />

Good point.

    <category
        scheme=3D"http://example.org/tag"
        term=3D"http://example.org/?tag=3Dfoo"
        label=3D"foo"
    />

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 19:48:50 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew7gw-0004nq-8L
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:48:50 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA14786
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:47:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0hQbM037780;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:43:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A0hQAI037779;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:43:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0hPWo037773
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:43:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i31so3595891wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:43:25 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=Bz/FVVc6iDr5zOt3vD63OmjbbFJX61ahhksh2LiifUwge1vVb3xZxjFIKDuGCRxjVoUn/79xTn4ge4JQdoRFBlABpKx5z+mAbMEvLkWIkJ9I8c9s9hVXwAulv15VClmr/Iu6/YMfC4OrKhnINEWsVVObc0DnbFTmQlJz0vnZjk4=
Received: by 10.54.76.4 with SMTP id y4mr8835173wra;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 40sm3045779wrl.2006.01.09.16.43.24;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C30338.6050701@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:43:36 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
CC: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <0CC68243-FD6A-4CE6-AC27-26547AC48F39@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <0CC68243-FD6A-4CE6-AC27-26547AC48F39@sun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Sorry, I wasn't clear, what I need is to associate a dereferenceable URI 
  with a category without requiring the client to construct one (e.g. by 
combining the scheme+term.  The approach Bill suggested should work for 
what I need.  I still think an href attribute may be useful in the 
future but, we'll see.

Tim Bray wrote:
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 1:12 PM, James M Snell wrote:
> 
>> I'm in the process of going through a number of application scenarios 
>> with Atom and I'm coming up with a problem because I cannot associate 
>> a URI with a <category> element.
> 
>  From my Atom feed:
> 
> <category scheme='http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/What/' 
> term='Technology/XML' />
> 
> The scheme is identified by a URI. -Tim
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 19:56:22 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew7oD-0007Tz-T2
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:56:22 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15206
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:55:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0eXjS037598;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:40:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A0eXQM037597;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:40:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0eX7Z037591
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:40:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so2761329wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:40:32 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=jfsxWkps5AS87J0i/mkxfVuPQdi2c5pYgKSGQZX/e7o0FdmLLObN69Qi38HQ2YCyaYI5AJY4yjY99HvvUOc1WYQGWCq19c5XZqJ4Ghu4hoQByudm1C11I7Bcm1AlULOAssErP3hnfwRuVQdLhU1lasDpbAv1UuMc1pEjQa2gqIM=
Received: by 10.54.120.2 with SMTP id s2mr5939395wrc;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:40:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 45sm21545030wri.2006.01.09.16.40.30;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:40:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C3028E.7030009@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:40:46 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com> <20060109213337.GH19213@klangraum> <80DE7AA6-5F62-40BB-BB10-E8ED8FF1E299@fondantfancies.com> <43C2F5FA.4040402@dehora.net>
In-Reply-To: <43C2F5FA.4040402@dehora.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id TAA15206


Yeah, that would work.  However, whether or not to interpret the term as=20
a dereferenceable url still comes down to an implementation detail.=20
e.g. Terms associated with xyz scheme should always be interpreted as=20
dereferenceable URI's.

So i could say...

<category scheme=3D"http://ibm.com/tag"
           term=3D"http://example.org/mylist?tag=3Dfoo"
           label=3D"foo" />

This should work for what I need.

Thanks for the responses.

- James

Bill de h=D3ra wrote:
> Graham Parks wrote:
>> On 9 Jan 2006, at 9:33 pm, A. Pagaltzis wrote:
>>
>>>     <category
>>>         scheme=3D"http://.../tag"
>>>         term=3D"?tag=3Dfoo"
>>>         label=3D"foo"
>>>     />
>=20
>=20
>     <category
>         term=3D"http://example.org/cat/foo"
>         label=3D"foo"
>     />
>=20
>=20
> cheers
> Bill
>=20
>=20




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 20:05:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew7wg-0001LM-HK
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:05:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15740
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:03:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0wYRk039866;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:58:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A0wYJe039865;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:58:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from gnmail1.gorge.net (gnmail1.gorge.net [209.216.160.81])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0kZSV038554
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:58:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamesy@softwareme.com)
Message-Id: <200601100058.k0A0kZSV038554@above.proper.com>
Received: from JAMESYLB (unverified [209.216.180.149]) by gnmail1.gorge.net
  (Vircom SMTPRS 4.3.450.0) with ESMTP id <A0029280962@gnmail1.gorge.net> for <atom-syntax@imc.org>;
  Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:30:28 -0800
X-Modus-BlackList: 209.216.180.149=OK;jamesy@softwareme.com=OK
X-Modus-Trusted: 209.216.180.149=YES
From: "James Yenne" <jamesy@softwareme.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:29:45 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_052D_01C6153A.03767860"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-Index: AcYVRUnjgDJHDKpKQZGvHxK2Z8zKSgANisdA
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_052D_01C6153A.03767860
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm looking for info about what the expected 'updated' datetime element
semantics look like, and haven't found anything in old email and the wiki on
this topic. Is there a description somewhere?  RSSBandit and FeedDemon don't
pick up entry changes based on my changing the feed and entry 'updated'
element to a later datetime.  Instead I change the id element and get a
'new' entry, which is not desirable, since id for an entry should be a
permanent uuid.  I don't know how updates are supposed to occur.
 
Thanks for any help,
James
 
 

------=_NextPart_000_052D_01C6153A.03767860
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D592474816-09012006><SPAN=20
class=3D516011900-10012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm looking for =
info about what=20
the expected 'updated' datetime element semantics look like, =
and&nbsp;haven't=20
found anything in old email and the wiki on this topic. Is there a =
description=20
somewhere?&nbsp; RSSBandit and FeedDemon don't pick up entry changes =
based on my=20
changing the feed and entry 'updated' element to a later datetime.&nbsp; =
Instead=20
I change the id element and get a 'new' entry, which is not desirable, =
since id=20
for an entry should be a permanent uuid.&nbsp; I don't know how updates =
are=20
supposed to occur.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D592474816-09012006><SPAN=20
class=3D516011900-10012006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for any=20
help,<BR>James</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D592474816-09012006><SPAN=20
class=3D516011900-10012006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D592474816-09012006><SPAN=20
class=3D516011900-10012006>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_052D_01C6153A.03767860--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 20:05:21 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew7wv-0001OY-GY
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:05:21 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15766
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:04:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0s5UG039584;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:54:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A0s5RC039583;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:54:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A0s4eL039577
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:54:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:54:04 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV4FFFEE6F7F27020DA328DBE250@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:54:04 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "atom-syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43C2D1D3.2090609@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Category URI's
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:54:03 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2006 00:54:04.0368 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A6C4500:01C61580]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
> This is mainly coming up in the context of tagging.  I want to be able to 
> specify a tag and a URI that can be used to request a list of other items 
> associated with that tag.
>
> Having an href attribute on the Category element strikes me as an 
> obviously useful thing that we need to make sure gets into a future update 
> of the specification.

You've got to be kidding. Worst case you stick a couple of related link 
elements at the top of your feed for category specific feeds. Better would 
be to toss them on your webpage somewhere where a user might actually see 
them. An extra attribute in every category of every element which nobody is 
ever going to see strikes me as insane.

The category element has some major problems, but this isn't one of them.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 09 20:17:12 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ew88O-0004oZ-4Q
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:17:12 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA16552
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 20:15:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A17wCS042076;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:07:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A17whT042075;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:07:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A17vbl042069
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:07:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i34so3283545wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:07:57 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=BYPbXcj2AipjSL9sn2pdxEhvRljqN97/cpPDCmtY04nU2Cg8sSJuRUMSeDEoyw1704nh2vplYk3l5A501q4gS08AhhD8iq+IjWWAiSeRunXxCpTrsn3uEfQtaZtEBhcY8NQtef24iAlZ6IGpCw78EmgNokaM0/JfO4UptR0Sw98=
Received: by 10.54.152.17 with SMTP id z17mr34096wrd;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g5sm186316wra.2006.01.09.17.07.54;
        Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C308FA.7090904@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:08:10 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
References: <200601100058.k0A0kZSV038554@above.proper.com>
In-Reply-To: <200601100058.k0A0kZSV038554@above.proper.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


The updated element is used to indicate when a significant update has 
occurred to the entry.  If you are updating the updated element when you 
update your entry, you are doing the right thing.  If RSSBandit and 
FeedDemon are not picking up the fact that the entry has been modified 
based on a changed updated value (even if the updated element is the 
only thing that is different), then I would say those readers have a 
bug.  You should never be changing your id element value.

James Yenne wrote:
> I'm looking for info about what the expected 'updated' datetime element 
> semantics look like, and haven't found anything in old email and the 
> wiki on this topic. Is there a description somewhere?  RSSBandit and 
> FeedDemon don't pick up entry changes based on my changing the feed and 
> entry 'updated' element to a later datetime.  Instead I change the id 
> element and get a 'new' entry, which is not desirable, since id for an 
> entry should be a permanent uuid.  I don't know how updates are supposed 
> to occur.
>  
> Thanks for any help,
> James
>  
>  




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 00:49:22 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwCNm-0004oE-DF
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:49:22 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05306
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:48:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A5UWeb068777;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:30:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0A5UWtJ068776;
	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:30:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A5UV6E068764
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:30:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176])
	by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0A5UV3F013217
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:30:31 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ISV000011WJW000@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:30:31 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [192.168.1.41] ([204.174.35.77])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ISV008LI3AUZMR0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon,
 09 Jan 2006 22:30:31 -0700 (MST)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:30:44 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
In-reply-to: <43C308FA.7090904@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Cc: James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Message-id: <E8568664-B5CA-4A04-9B88-1805601FA3F8@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <200601100058.k0A0kZSV038554@above.proper.com>
 <43C308FA.7090904@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Jan 9, 2006, at 5:08 PM, James M Snell wrote:

> The updated element is used to indicate when a significant update  
> has occurred to the entry.  If you are updating the updated element  
> when you update your entry, you are doing the right thing.  If  
> RSSBandit and FeedDemon are not picking up the fact that the entry  
> has been modified based on a changed updated value (even if the  
> updated element is the only thing that is different), then I would  
> say those readers have a bug.  You should never be changing your id  
> element value.

James is exactly right.  The whole reason 'updated' exists is  
*exactly* so you can tell the downstream software unambiguously when  
some entry has changed and this ought to be brought to the consumers'  
attention.  -Tim





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 07:42:01 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwIp7-000078-0q
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:42:01 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA27494
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:40:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ACXnZf026484;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:33:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ACXn6I026483;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:33:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mta07-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mta07-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ACXlGQ026466
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:33:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net)
Received: from aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35])
          by mta07-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060110123341.PPVJ21883.mta07-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:33:41 +0000
Received: from cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com ([81.111.201.153])
          by aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060110123341.ZAGA10196.aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com>
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:33:41 +0000
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:33:38 +0000
From: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.64.01 Christmas Edition) Professional
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <7910108288.20060110123338@djpowell.net>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Inheritance of atom:rights
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0ACXmGQ026478
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



From 4.2.10:

>    If an atom:entry element does not contain an atom:rights element,
>    then the atom:rights element of the containing atom:feed element, if
>    present, is considered to apply to the entry.

Is there a reason that this paragraph excludes inheritance from
atom:source?

Section 4.2.1, describing the inheritance of atom:author, does
explicitly allow inheritance from atom:source:

>    If an atom:entry element does not contain atom:author elements, then
>    the atom:author elements of the contained atom:source element are
>    considered to apply.  In an Atom Feed Document, the atom:author
>    elements of the containing atom:feed element are considered to apply
>    to the entry if there are no atom:author elements in the locations
>    described above.

-- 
Dave





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 09:17:19 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwKJK-0006fb-Vn
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:17:19 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05904
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:15:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ADt84x037110;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:55:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ADt8eG037109;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:55:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0ADt7m2037097
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:55:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jan 2006 13:55:01 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-245-213.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.245.213]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 14:55:01 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:55:13 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of atom:rights
Message-ID: <20060110135513.GL19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <7910108288.20060110123338@djpowell.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <7910108288.20060110123338@djpowell.net>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


Hi David,

* David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net> [2006-01-10 13:40]:
>Is there a reason that this paragraph excludes inheritance from
>atom:source?

I see you already asked this in July and were warnocked back then
too.

All I could find in the archive that even mentions atom:rights
and atom:source in conjunction is

    From: Thomas Broyer
    Subject: Re: Next and Previous
    Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:29:53 +0200 (CEST)
    Message-ID: <3138.194.250.147.107.1128500993.squirrel@monmail.cegetel.net>
    Archive-URL: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg17109.html>

wherein he says:

> atom:rights at feed-level don't apply to its entries, just to
> the feed as it stands. If you want to grant/restrict rights at
> an entry-level, use the entry-level atom:rights.

But, he wrote this last October, long after RFC 4287 was
finalised in June, and the spec contradicts his argument: section
4.2.10 clearly says:

    If an atom:entry element does not contain an atom:rights
    element, then the atom:rights element of the containing
    atom:feed element, if present, is considered to apply to the
    entry.

So in other words, it looks like whoever wrote the section in
question simply forgot to take inheritance from atom:source into
account and did not actuall mean to be exclude it; a spec bug.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 09:21:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwKN1-0007pu-9h
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:21:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06259
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:19:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AEDan7038438;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:13:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AEDaws038437;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:13:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtp4.afp.com (smtp4.afp.com [158.50.208.51])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AEDZ9O038428
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:13:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from laurent.lemeur@afp.com)
Received: by smtp4.afp.com (Sendmail, from userid 1007)
	id 527C352074; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:01:37 +0100 (CET)
Received: from alox.afp.com (unknown [158.50.165.141])by smtp4.afp.com (Sendmail) with ESMTP id 4846852072for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:01:37 +0100 (CET)
Received: from stdc05 ([158.50.180.103])by alox.afp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AEDGEi013783for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:13:19 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <200601101413.k0AEDGEi013783@alox.afp.com>
From: "Laurent Le Meur" <laurent.lemeur@afp.com>
To: "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: info: IPTC starts testing the News Revolution
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:13:19 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Thread-Index: AcYV6Gy0Yk9MPExMT+qxvze+WPCZQgAByprw
X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



IPTC starts testing the News Revolution

Windsor (United Kingdom), 10 January 2006 -- Sharing and accurately 
describing news will take a giant leap forward this month when 
testing begins on NewsML 2 Architecture, a proposed standard from 
the International Press Telecommunications Council for a next 
generation of news exchange formats.
 
Developed by a consortium of more than 40 of the world's major news 
agencies and news system vendors, NewsML 2 Architecture is based on 
the wildly popular XML markup language.
 
The basic goal of the NewsML 2 Architecture is to provide a single 
generic model for exchanging all kinds of newsworthy information.
Not only will this give news agencies and software developers a 
unified method for handling news, but it will also provide an XML 
framework for a future family of IPTC news exchange standards 
covering such diverse specialties as sports, entertainment and 
financial news.
 
Under the IPTC model, text, photo, graphics, video -- in fact, any 
combination of media types -- can be bundled into packages that 
neatly wrap the news content, information about the content and a 
management layer.  Senders can make the XML wrapper as simple or 
complex as desired, tailoring the final package to the exact needs 
of their customers.
 
As with all IPTC standards, when work is completed NewsML 2 standards
will be released for use without payment or royalties.  In addition, 
it is compatible with the World Wide Web Consortium's "Semantic Web" 
framework, building a robust universal data exchange using XML and 
other standard tools.
 
During the testing period, IPTC members and other parties can:
 
-  Test "real life" use cases against the News Architecture model 
   and syntax.
-  Report on practical issues. 
-  Help finalise the NewsML 2 Architecture specifications. 
 
NewsML 2 Architecture Version 1.0, Experimental Phase 1, will end on 
15 February 2006.  Although testing is generally intended for IPTC 
members, non-members may be invited to join.  All documents and 
specification files for the current draft of the NewsML 2 
Architecture are available at www.iptc.org/dev .
 
To discuss participation or possible IPTC membership, non-members can
write to mdirector@iptc.org.
 
Test results will be discussed at the next regular meeting of the 
IPTC, to be held in Vancouver, Canada, in March 2006; results will 
also be published on the IPTC's web site, http://www.iptc.org/ .
 
The IPTC, based in Windsor, England, is a consortium of the world's 
major news agencies, news publishers and news industry vendors.  It 
develops and maintains technical standards that are used by virtually
every major news organization in the world. 
 
More information may be had from the IPTC at office@iptc.org .


Laurent
Head of Medialab, AFP, www.afp.com
Chair, NewsML 2 Architecture WP, IPTC, www.iptc.org/dev



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This e-mail, and any file transmitted with it, is confidential and  intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error, please  contact the sender and delete the email from your system. If you are  not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy  this email.

For more information on Agence France-Presse, please visit our web site at http://www.afp.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 10:24:03 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwLLv-00074F-66
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:24:03 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09938
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:22:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AF6wfu044123;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:06:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AF6wlL044122;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:06:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.221])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0AF6vrx044111
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:06:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamesy@softwareme.com)
Message-Id: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
Received: (qmail 11135 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 15:06:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (209.216.173.10)
  by smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.221) with ESMTP; 10 Jan 2006 15:06:51 -0000
From: "James Yenne" <jamesy@softwareme.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:06:59 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-Index: AcYVqozzQoxn5pTfQUO3eppKqvp0vAAAnavQ
In-Reply-To: <E8568664-B5CA-4A04-9B88-1805601FA3F8@sun.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


According to an exchange on the topic at RSSBandit's support site between
Dare and myself, he writes: 

"RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry since many
differ on what constitutes an update and what level of feedback should be
provided to the user." 

I'm led to believe there is some controversy here.  James' description is
what I would expect, and seems straight-forward enough.  Is there any thing
more to this?  

Thanks 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
On Behalf Of Tim Bray
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:31 PM
To: James M Snell
Cc: James Yenne; atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics


On Jan 9, 2006, at 5:08 PM, James M Snell wrote:

> The updated element is used to indicate when a significant update has 
> occurred to the entry.  If you are updating the updated element when 
> you update your entry, you are doing the right thing.  If RSSBandit 
> and FeedDemon are not picking up the fact that the entry has been 
> modified based on a changed updated value (even if the updated element 
> is the only thing that is different), then I would say those readers 
> have a bug.  You should never be changing your id element value.

James is exactly right.  The whole reason 'updated' exists is
*exactly* so you can tell the downstream software unambiguously when some
entry has changed and this ought to be brought to the consumers'  
attention.  -Tim






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 10:49:40 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwLki-0005Ge-FY
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:49:40 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12094
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:48:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AFZ6bV046849;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:35:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AFZ69u046848;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:35:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AFZ5ia046826
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:35:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 0D22526C0E3; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:35:04 +0100 (CET)
Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 94F6926C0E0; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:35:01 +0100 (CET)
Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69])
	by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k0AFZ1Ya840934;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:35:01 +0100 (CET)
Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id 75F5016AA99; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:35:01 +0100 (CET)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:35:01 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Message-ID: <20060110153501.GA8813@nic.fr>
References: <E8568664-B5CA-4A04-9B88-1805601FA3F8@sun.com> <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686
Organization: NIC France
X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:06:59AM -0800,
 James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com> wrote 
 a message of 39 lines which said:

> "RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry
> since many differ on what constitutes an update and what level of
> feedback should be provided to the user."

Sage displays entries sorted according to <updated> but does not
highlight updated entries, only new ones (new == new <id>). I believe
it is partly an User Interface and Usability issue and therefore out
of scope for the Atom-syntax group.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 11:19:39 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwMDj-00043a-Dl
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:19:39 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17991
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:18:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AGCmT1051875;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:12:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AGCmSg051874;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:12:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.221])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0AGClp3051859
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:12:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamesy@softwareme.com)
Message-Id: <200601101612.k0AGClp3051859@above.proper.com>
Received: (qmail 17945 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:12:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (209.216.180.147)
  by smtpout05-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.221) with ESMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:12:41 -0000
From: "James Yenne" <jamesy@softwareme.com>
To: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Cc: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:12:45 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-Index: AcYV/kiRQMAs7k/QRe+kvGCyYRx9NQAAOCSw
In-Reply-To: <20060110153501.GA8813@nic.fr>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I haven't used Sage, but I would anticipate that entries which have been
retrieved initially by a reader are continually checked for changes to the
updated element until the entries age to some drop off point, regardless of
the UI display conventions of them.  The problem is that there is data loss
in the reader that doesn't update entries that have actually changed, again,
regardless of how you display these changes.  Perhaps semantics is indeed
outside of the scope of a syntax discussion list, however, the updated
element syntax implies some semantic understanding.  I am not a reader
implementor, so I don't have any insight on why readers do not pick up these
changed updated elements as a cue for entry refresh.  Otherwise, please
direct me to a group that discusses these issues.  

Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:35 AM
To: James Yenne
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:06:59AM -0800,  James Yenne
<jamesy@softwareme.com> wrote  a message of 39 lines which said:

> "RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry since 
> many differ on what constitutes an update and what level of feedback 
> should be provided to the user."

Sage displays entries sorted according to <updated> but does not highlight
updated entries, only new ones (new == new <id>). I believe it is partly an
User Interface and Usability issue and therefore out of scope for the
Atom-syntax group.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 11:55:10 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwMm6-0007lX-HB
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:55:10 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20784
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:53:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AGW3d4054026;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:32:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AGW3Xi054025;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:32:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0AGW2UG054010
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:32:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jan 2006 16:31:56 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-245-213.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.245.213]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 17:31:56 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:32:08 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Message-ID: <20060110163208.GN19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org
References: <E8568664-B5CA-4A04-9B88-1805601FA3F8@sun.com> <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA20784


Hi James,

* James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com> [2006-01-10 16:20]:
>According to an exchange on the topic at RSSBandit's support
>site between Dare and myself, he writes:=20
>
>"RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry
>since many differ on what constitutes an update and what level
>of feedback should be provided to the user."=20

The reader I use, Liferea, specifically marks entries as edited
when they change, but not as unread. I=E2=80=99d prefer if it also gave
indication of the number of edited entries in a feed much as it
gives for the number of unread entries, but much to my chargin,
the developers have chosen not to support any indication for
edited entries beyond marking them as such.

It=E2=80=99s certainly something I plan to support once I get around to
writing the aggregator I=E2=80=99ve been sketching out in my head.

>I'm led to believe there is some controversy here.  James'
>description is what I would expect, and seems straight-forward
>enough. Is there any thing more to this? =20

I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s controversy, so much as that most peop=
le
apparently simply don=E2=80=99t care whether an entry they=E2=80=99ve alr=
eady
seen has changed. I do, but I seem to be in a minority, since few
aggregators make this easy, and noone complains, whereas,
according to the Liferea crew, there have been complaints from
people who do *not* care when edited entries *were* called out.

It=E2=80=99s not a spec issue so much as a usability question.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 12:05:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwMwS-00010y-Jp
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:05:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21537
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:04:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AGwJpV056906;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:58:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AGwJiQ056905;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:58:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AGwJof056897
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:58:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:58:13 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV14FBAF1EEE65F991951F78BE250@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:58:13 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:58:12 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2006 16:58:13.0988 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B7BC240:01C61607]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James Yenne wrote:
> I'm led to believe there is some controversy here.  James' description is
> what I would expect, and seems straight-forward enough.  Is there any 
> thing
> more to this?

There are a couple of options for an aggregator author. They can mark an 
entry as having changed when 1) the content of the entry has changed; 2) the 
updated element has changed; 3) the updated element has changed as well as 
the content having been changed; or 4) do nothing at all. I'm sure there are 
other possibilities, but I think those are the main issues.

With option 1 the poor user is flooding with notifications for all sorts of 
insignificant updates like single character spelling corrections. With 
option 2 the user is even worse off because they get notified of changes to 
an entry when in fact nothing at all in the content has changed (this is not 
uncommon). Option 3 is probably the least annoying, but can still end up 
flagging insignificant updates and can still miss significant updates if the 
publisher forgets to set the updated element. Option 4, well, it's easy if 
nothing else.

FWIW Snarfer does something based on option 3. Only changes to the actual 
message content are considered important enough to notify the user of an 
update. The title, author and other metadata aren't considered significant. 
Changes to the HTML markup in the content aren't considered significant 
either. Not perfect perhaps, but I think it strikes a fair balance between 
being useful and being annoying.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 12:07:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwMyO-0001HM-29
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:07:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21673
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:06:31 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AGtk4L056680;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:55:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AGtk9W056679;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:55:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.79])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0AGtkp1056609
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:55:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamesy@softwareme.com)
Message-Id: <200601101655.k0AGtkp1056609@above.proper.com>
Received: (qmail 303 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:55:40 -0000
Received: from unknown (209.216.180.147)
  by smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.79) with ESMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:55:40 -0000
From: "James Yenne" <jamesy@softwareme.com>
To: "'James Yenne'" <jamesy@softwareme.com>,
        "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Cc: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:55:47 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-Index: AcYV/kiRQMAs7k/QRe+kvGCyYRx9NQAAOCSwAAHHNkA=
In-Reply-To: <200601101612.k0AGClp3051859@above.proper.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


As an example of the problem, if I'm using a reader as the sole means to get
my news, I would have missed the update to the coal miners story, from
miracle to tragedy, which was a very significant update.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
On Behalf Of James Yenne
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:13 AM
To: 'Stephane Bortzmeyer'
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: RE: Reader 'updated' semantics


I haven't used Sage, but I would anticipate that entries which have been
retrieved initially by a reader are continually checked for changes to the
updated element until the entries age to some drop off point, regardless of
the UI display conventions of them.  The problem is that there is data loss
in the reader that doesn't update entries that have actually changed, again,
regardless of how you display these changes.  Perhaps semantics is indeed
outside of the scope of a syntax discussion list, however, the updated
element syntax implies some semantic understanding.  I am not a reader
implementor, so I don't have any insight on why readers do not pick up these
changed updated elements as a cue for entry refresh.  Otherwise, please
direct me to a group that discusses these issues.  

Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:35 AM
To: James Yenne
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:06:59AM -0800,  James Yenne
<jamesy@softwareme.com> wrote  a message of 39 lines which said:

> "RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry since 
> many differ on what constitutes an update and what level of feedback 
> should be provided to the user."

Sage displays entries sorted according to <updated> but does not highlight
updated entries, only new ones (new == new <id>). I believe it is partly an
User Interface and Usability issue and therefore out of scope for the
Atom-syntax group.






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 12:18:19 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwN8V-0006dw-Hj
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:18:19 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22558
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:16:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AH6xGX057835;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:59 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AH6xFK057834;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AH6wic057819
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 57so3585432wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:55 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=LcsWzsndVrcbNjn6mOQ2JNnmhhrtHik5g3nVYkn4OXKpHrSLU5zhvFCjL4GHN9cm5a8jAuH/0+rOfv2RgnJ3cJ0SOR3ctIS8tao+KCA+yHX2nW+BdKqbSqA2IGp2V77VobbqPqkzjLsBE8nVMqwMI49Zo+4OUnutZCbbLKjHzak=
Received: by 10.54.120.2 with SMTP id s2mr6775948wrc;
        Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 26sm6546661wrl.2006.01.10.09.06.54;
        Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43C3E9BA.2080702@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:07:06 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
In-Reply-To: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


In RSS there is definite confusion on what constitutes an update. In
Atom it is very clear.  If <updated> changes, the item has been updated.
     No controversy at all.

James Yenne wrote:
> According to an exchange on the topic at RSSBandit's support site between
> Dare and myself, he writes: 
> 
> "RSS Bandit does not provide an indication of an "updated" entry since many
> differ on what constitutes an update and what level of feedback should be
> provided to the user." 
> 
> I'm led to believe there is some controversy here.  James' description is
> what I would expect, and seems straight-forward enough.  Is there any thing
> more to this?  
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
> On Behalf Of Tim Bray
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:31 PM
> To: James M Snell
> Cc: James Yenne; atom-syntax@imc.org
> Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
> 
> 
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 5:08 PM, James M Snell wrote:
> 
>> The updated element is used to indicate when a significant update has 
>> occurred to the entry.  If you are updating the updated element when 
>> you update your entry, you are doing the right thing.  If RSSBandit 
>> and FeedDemon are not picking up the fact that the entry has been 
>> modified based on a changed updated value (even if the updated element 
>> is the only thing that is different), then I would say those readers 
>> have a bug.  You should never be changing your id element value.
> 
> James is exactly right.  The whole reason 'updated' exists is
> *exactly* so you can tell the downstream software unambiguously when some
> entry has changed and this ought to be brought to the consumers'  
> attention.  -Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 10 13:42:59 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwOSQ-0008O2-Qv
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:42:59 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28790
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:41:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AIZCVP070779;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0AIZCX3070778;
	Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AIZBBj070771
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.108.183])
	by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0AIZBuf017947
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:35:11 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ISW008013ISC300@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:35:11 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [192.168.102.100] ([154.20.170.13])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ISW007SJ3MMVT4M@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue,
 10 Jan 2006 11:35:11 -0700 (MST)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:27 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
In-reply-to: <43C3E9BA.2080702@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Cc: James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Message-id: <123B8ACB-CAB5-40F0-9F9D-AC8165035A6F@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com>
 <43C3E9BA.2080702@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Jan 10, 2006, at 9:07 AM, James M Snell wrote:

> In RSS there is definite confusion on what constitutes an update. In
> Atom it is very clear.  If <updated> changes, the item has been  
> updated.
>     No controversy at all.

Indeed.  There's a word for behavior of RssBandit and Sage: WRONG.   
Atom provides a 100% unambiguous way to say "this is the same entry,  
but it's been changed and the publisher thinks the change is  
significant."  Software that chooses to hide this fact from users is  
broken - arguably dangerous to those who depend on receiving timely  
and accurate information - and should not be used. -Tim




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 11 03:32:12 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwbOt-000677-OI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:32:12 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24707
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:30:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8LQBr010502;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:21:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0B8LQoq010501;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:21:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8LPfG010495
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:21:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 55DDE26C100; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:25 +0100 (CET)
Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 542FB26C0D4; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:24 +0100 (CET)
Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69])
	by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k0B8LNYa999295;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:23 +0100 (CET)
Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id C148116AA06; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:23 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:21:23 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Cc: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>, James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>,
        atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Message-ID: <20060111082123.GC15680@nic.fr>
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com> <43C3E9BA.2080702@gmail.com> <123B8ACB-CAB5-40F0-9F9D-AC8165035A6F@sun.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <123B8ACB-CAB5-40F0-9F9D-AC8165035A6F@sun.com>
X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686
Organization: NIC France
X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 10:35:27AM -0800,
 Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM> wrote 
 a message of 14 lines which said:

> There's a word for behavior of RssBandit and Sage: WRONG.   

Read again my message. Sage does *not* ignore changes of
<updated>. Its behaviour is perfectly right. It just displays updated
entries in a more discreet way than new entries.

> Software that chooses to hide this fact from users is broken

Sage does not hide it. Test before criticizing.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 11 03:32:12 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwbOu-00067C-0p
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:32:12 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24710
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:30:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8JqLu010388;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:19:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0B8JqWk010387;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:19:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8JpuB010380
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:19:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 6697326C109; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:19:51 +0100 (CET)
Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 595BE26C100; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:19:45 +0100 (CET)
Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69])
	by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k0B8JjYa985507;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:19:45 +0100 (CET)
Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id DE97216AA06; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:19:44 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:19:44 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Message-ID: <20060111081944.GB15680@nic.fr>
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com> <BAY106-DAV14FBAF1EEE65F991951F78BE250@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV14FBAF1EEE65F991951F78BE250@phx.gbl>
X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686
Organization: NIC France
X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 04:58:12PM -0000,
 James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote 
 a message of 31 lines which said:

> There are a couple of options for an aggregator author. They can
> mark an entry as having changed when 1) the content of the entry has
> changed; 2) the updated element has changed; 3) the updated element
> has changed as well as the content having been changed; or 4) do
> nothing at all. I'm sure there are other possibilities, but I think
> those are the main issues.

This is, IMHO, a completely different issue from the one asked by the
OP. In Atom, it seems to me that 2) is the only reasonable choice (1
or 3 would require to store the content - or at least a hash - and, if
applied blindly, would create many false positives since a simple
reformatting of the XML would trigger a "change").

The question asked by the OP was: when <updated> was changed, what the
reader should do? (And my reply was "Interesting question but a bit
out of scope for the atom-syntax group.")
 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 11 03:32:13 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwbOu-00067O-63
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:32:13 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24712
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:30:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8Gtjp010150;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:16:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0B8Gt5a010149;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:16:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B8GsBl010143
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:16:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD0F26C100
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:53 +0100 (CET)
Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C2C26C10D
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:47 +0100 (CET)
Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69])
	by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k0B8GlYa993838
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:47 +0100 (CET)
Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id 1D3BF16AA06; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:47 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:47 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Message-ID: <20060111081647.GA15680@nic.fr>
References: <E8568664-B5CA-4A04-9B88-1805601FA3F8@sun.com> <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com> <20060110163208.GN19213@klangraum>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20060110163208.GN19213@klangraum>
X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686
Organization: NIC France
X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 05:32:08PM +0100,
 A. Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote 
 a message of 37 lines which said:

> I don???t think it???s controversy, so much as that most people
> apparently simply don???t care whether an entry they???ve already
> seen has changed.

It is also may be because feed writers are too eager to set <updated>
when the change is insignificant (for instance, when there is simply a
reformatting). In Atom, the specification is, IMHO, very clear:

RFC 4287, 4.2.15.  The "atom:updated" Element

   The "atom:updated" element is a Date construct indicating the most
   recent instant in time when an entry or feed was modified in a way
   the publisher considers significant.  Therefore, not all
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   modifications necessarily result in a changed atom:updated value.

But it is much more muddy in the RSS world which may explain why feed
reader programmers tend to ignore <updated>.

Developing best practices in this area is complicated because there is
a strong interaction between the feed writers and the reader software.

PS: Wikipedia allow authors to check a box "Minor update" when they
modify a page and they don't want it to be regarded as a significant
change. I wonder how many authors set it. It would be a nice Usability
study to examine that.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 11 04:41:50 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EwcUI-0001ny-00
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:41:50 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27857
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:40:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B9YaXi017872;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:34:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0B9Yap2017871;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:34:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0B9YZvl017860
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:34:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@dehora.net)
Received: from [192.168.2.180] (83-70-225-115.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.225.115])
	by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CECDB70D;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:34:33 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <43C4D11E.8030708@dehora.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:34:22 +0000
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?= <bill@dehora.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
CC: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>, James Yenne <jamesy@softwareme.com>,
        atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com> <43C3E9BA.2080702@gmail.com> <123B8ACB-CAB5-40F0-9F9D-AC8165035A6F@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <123B8ACB-CAB5-40F0-9F9D-AC8165035A6F@sun.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Tim Bray wrote:
> 
> On Jan 10, 2006, at 9:07 AM, James M Snell wrote:
> 
>> In RSS there is definite confusion on what constitutes an update. In
>> Atom it is very clear.  If <updated> changes, the item has been  updated.
>>     No controversy at all.
> 
> 
> Indeed.  There's a word for behavior of RssBandit and Sage: WRONG.  
> Atom provides a 100% unambiguous way to say "this is the same entry, 
> but it's been changed and the publisher thinks the change is 
> significant."  Software that chooses to hide this fact from users is 
> broken - arguably dangerous to those who depend on receiving timely  and
> accurate information - and should not be used. -Tim

I agree with this, up to the point that flipping the updated bit becomes
a spam vector.

cheers
Bill




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 11 14:28:21 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ewldt-0003ae-OH
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:28:21 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05302
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:27:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0BJ1uve074502;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:01:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0BJ1uYB074501;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:01:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0BJ1us2074406
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:01:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:01:51 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV18977CC5E51810B9A87392BE240@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:01:50 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <200601101506.k0AF6vrx044111@above.proper.com> <BAY106-DAV14FBAF1EEE65F991951F78BE250@phx.gbl> <20060111081944.GB15680@nic.fr>
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:01:48 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2006 19:01:51.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[7ACF0C80:01C616E1]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Stephane Bortzmeyer:
> OP. In Atom, it seems to me that 2) is the only reasonable choice (1
> or 3 would require to store the content - or at least a hash - and, if
> applied blindly, would create many false positives since a simple
> reformatting of the XML would trigger a "change").

Read my response again. Option 3 can't possibly trigger any more false 
positives than 2 since it requires option 2's conditions to be satisfied 
(i.e. the updated element changed) in addition to the content having been 
changed.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 12 12:45:03 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ex6VT-0002iP-1h
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:45:03 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03295
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:43:41 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0CHXe3R030919;
	Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0CHXe8b030918;
	Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.79])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0CHXdlA030908
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamesy@softwareme.com)
Message-Id: <200601121733.k0CHXdlA030908@above.proper.com>
Received: (qmail 4580 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 17:33:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (209.216.184.8)
  by smtpout01-04.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.79) with ESMTP; 12 Jan 2006 17:33:33 -0000
From: "James Yenne" <jamesy@softwareme.com>
To: "'James Holderness'" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
Cc: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: Reader 'updated' semantics
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:33:32 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV18977CC5E51810B9A87392BE240@phx.gbl>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
Thread-Index: AcYW5ijVqgLtoHvWTFCgokmN9n++ywAs2tOQ
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Thanks for your thoughtful analysis on the update issue.

I just want to follow up with reader implementers the importance of
supporting the Atom update mechanism.  News is one large application of a
feed, but there are potentially many others in which the update mechanism is
a requirement.

For feeds, with respect to email, this is clearly one differentiating factor
in which delivery is possible without creating a new message/entry.  At this
point, most Atom readers do not support <updated>, so the feed generator is
stuck with new = new id.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org]
On Behalf Of James Holderness
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:02 AM
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Reader 'updated' semantics


Stephane Bortzmeyer:
> OP. In Atom, it seems to me that 2) is the only reasonable choice (1 
> or 3 would require to store the content - or at least a hash - and, if 
> applied blindly, would create many false positives since a simple 
> reformatting of the XML would trigger a "change").

Read my response again. Option 3 can't possibly trigger any more false
positives than 2 since it requires option 2's conditions to be satisfied
(i.e. the updated element changed) in addition to the content having been
changed.

Regards
James





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 19:21:47 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyI83-0007cL-Os
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:21:47 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26726
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:20:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G0DupK097567;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G0DuPH097566;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G0DsVR097558
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so1087936wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:54 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=pSGPbIWndUkyixJxCs1MwnwPXc6JZlM624oLN7pEO8QuoeSKoSTJi+NpMKwZS9zte8G6teW2jztQG6GUiUspU5EXQcyFhaJhxnqUBZudSpgUKs1154rxHpa/Y4G4GD+QYPceQfERFSum6t9dFRYcdZs0TDuQJTDuhYP6CvIrcds=
Received: by 10.54.136.18 with SMTP id j18mr709520wrd;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 11sm8800297wrl.2006.01.15.16.13.53;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CAE53F.4060103@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:13:51 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


per rfc4287 section 4.1.3.3

    4.  If the value of "type" is an XML media type [RFC3023] or ends
        with "+xml" or "/xml" (case insensitive), the content of
        atom:content MAY include child elements and SHOULD be suitable
        for handling as the indicated media type.  If the "src" attribute
        is not provided, this would normally mean that the "atom:content"
        element would contain a single child element that would serve as
        the root element of the XML document of the indicated type.

given the last sentence in the snippet above, the answer is yes, it is 
valid.

Eric Scheid wrote:
> Is this a valid atom entry?
> 
>     <entry>
>         [...elided...]
>         <summary>a snippet of foo xml</summary>
>         <content type="application/foo+xml">
>             <foo:thing xmlns:foo="http://xmlns.com/foo/0.1/">
>                 <foo:name>King George</foo:name>
>             </foo:Person>
>         </content>
>     </entry>
> 
> That is, is a partial xml document valid inside the atom:content element?
> What about xml formats whose specs state that there must be a certain root
> element (similar to how atom documents must have either <feed> or <entry> as
> root elements)?
> 
> e.
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 19:24:31 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyIAh-0008VU-5n
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:24:31 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27133
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:23:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G04ssP093594;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G04s65093593;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G04rN3093263
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:04:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:04:39 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:04:20 +1100
Subject: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Is this a valid atom entry?

    <entry>
        [...elided...]
        <summary>a snippet of foo xml</summary>
        <content type="application/foo+xml">
            <foo:thing xmlns:foo="http://xmlns.com/foo/0.1/">
                <foo:name>King George</foo:name>
            </foo:Person>
        </content>
    </entry>

That is, is a partial xml document valid inside the atom:content element?
What about xml formats whose specs state that there must be a certain root
element (similar to how atom documents must have either <feed> or <entry> as
root elements)?

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 20:08:46 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyIrW-00012T-NN
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:08:46 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29042
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:07:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G0rXYM011690;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:53:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G0rXP1011689;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:53:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G0rWFK011683
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:53:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:53:32 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV159DF4B212F1D080804B85BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:53:32 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:53:29 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 00:53:32.0678 (UTC) FILETIME=[46034260:01C61A37]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Eric Scheid wrote:
> Is this a valid atom entry?
>
>    <entry>
>        [...elided...]
>        <summary>a snippet of foo xml</summary>
>        <content type="application/foo+xml">
>            <foo:thing xmlns:foo="http://xmlns.com/foo/0.1/">
>                <foo:name>King George</foo:name>
>            </foo:Person>
>        </content>
>    </entry>

I'm not sure if I misunderstood your question, or the mismatched tags are a 
typo, but that's not even valid XML let alone valid atom.

> That is, is a partial xml document valid inside the atom:content element?

Assuming that foo:Person close tag was meant to be a foo:thing close tag, 
then if you can extract the section from <foo:thing> to </foo:thing> into a 
file and view it successfully in a foo file viewer then I'd say it's a valid 
Atom entry (assuming also that the foo file viewer only opens strictly valid 
foo documents).

> What about xml formats whose specs state that there must be a certain root
> element (similar to how atom documents must have either <feed> or <entry> 
> as
> root elements)?

To be honest, I didn't know you could get XML formats that didn't have an 
explicit root element. Nevertheless I think the same tests apply. Can the 
embedded XML section open successfully in a foo file viewer?

A more concrete example would be the use of application/xhtml+xml content 
starting with a div tag rather than an html tag.

   <entry>
        [...elided...]
        <summary>a snippet of xhtml</summary>
        <content type="application/xhtml+xml">
            <xh:div xmlns:xh="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
                <xh:p>Not strictly valid Atom content.</xh:p>
            </xh:div>
        </content>
    </entry>

While I'd expect most Atom clients to process such an entry successfully 
(assuming they're capable of handling XML at all) I don't think it's 
strictly valid Atom since you couldn't save that section to a file and 
expect it to open successfully in a validating XHTML file viewer.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 20:45:17 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyJQq-0001kW-TR
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:45:17 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01061
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:43:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G1eF6N025348;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:40:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G1eFgF025347;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:40:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G1eELY025341
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:40:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from elharo@metalab.unc.edu)
Received: (qmail 592 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 01:40:13 -0000
Received: from dsl254-067-087.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO [192.168.254.100]) (elharo@[216.254.67.87])
          (envelope-sender <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>)
          by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP
          for <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>; 16 Jan 2006 01:40:13 -0000
Message-ID: <43CAF97C.5030106@metalab.unc.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:40:12 -0500
From: Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id UAA01061


Eric Scheid wrote:
> Is this a valid atom entry?
>=20
>     <entry>
>         [...elided...]
>         <summary>a snippet of foo xml</summary>
>         <content type=3D"application/foo+xml">
>             <foo:thing xmlns:foo=3D"http://xmlns.com/foo/0.1/">
>                 <foo:name>King George</foo:name>
>             </foo:Person>
>         </content>
>     </entry>
>=20

No. It's not even well-formed much less valid.


--=20
=EF=BB=BFElliotte Rusty Harold  elharo@metalab.unc.edu
XML in a Nutshell 3rd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeconleche.org/books/xian3/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=3D0596007647/cafeaulaitA/ref=3Dnos=
im




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 21:20:26 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyJys-0001v6-3E
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:20:26 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA03040
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:19:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G27Jra041357;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G27J86041356;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G27HT6041350
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so1100216wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:17 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=cX0bfs12ycJLv4jyz+huO8qx1trChHO0j1qQNkfh4iUIdkTp/chlcpLW6yZgx2QGgW88C/QFB7vFE0Kk/Qz4Sv4tt1GR2juEB8y6UUHtVxMH5FzQcbW0celFyyWxbelLNCKuaUwB73H+ROQEudlPJJqUTxmP+0xE8XA8KDaF9fE=
Received: by 10.54.133.7 with SMTP id g7mr5150044wrd;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g9sm8979384wra.2006.01.15.18.07.16;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:17 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CAFFD2.9090406@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:07:14 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
CC: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>,
        Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF12E34.8460C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <43CAF97C.5030106@metalab.unc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <43CAF97C.5030106@metalab.unc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Elliotte Harold wrote:
> 
> 
> No. It's not even well-formed much less valid.
> 

I personally assumed that the </foo:Person> was an unintended error.. 
after accounting for such, the example is valid.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 21:26:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyK53-0003P7-R8
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:26:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA03387
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:25:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2HCok047338;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:17:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G2HCtb047337;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:17:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2HBEQ047249
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:17:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:17:24 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:17:05 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF14D51.8465A%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <43CAF97C.5030106@metalab.unc.edu>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16/1/06 12:40 PM, "Elliotte Harold" <elharo@metalab.unc.edu> wrote:

> No. It's not even well-formed much less valid.

ignore the typo.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 21:43:46 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyKLS-00085Y-Hp
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:43:46 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04849
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:42:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2X4qr055340;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:33:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G2X4BW055339;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:33:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2X1pc055254
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:33:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:33:16 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:32:57 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <43CAFFD2.9090406@gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0G2X4pc055324
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id VAA04849


On 16/1/06 1:07 PM, "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:

> I personally assumed that the </foo:Person> was an unintended error..
> after accounting for such, the example is valid.

Yes, that was a typo.

But I'm not so sure it's valid now, because of the SHOULD clause below:

    per rfc4287 section 4.1.3.3

    4.  If the value of "type" is an XML media type [RFC3023] or ends
        with "+xml" or "/xml" (case insensitive), the content of
        atom:content MAY include child elements and SHOULD be suitable
        for handling as the indicated media type.  If the "src" attribute
        is not provided, this would normally mean that the "atom:content"
        element would contain a single child element that would serve as
        the root element of the XML document of the indicated type.

Assume foo xml requires foo:basket as the root element. Is it valid to ha=
ve
atom:content with foo:thing as the immediate child?

For example, an OPML document requires <opml> as the root, which contains
<head> and <body>, the latter containing <outline> elements ... so can an
atom entry contain just an <opml:outline> element?

  <entry>
      ...
      <entry type=3D"whatever OPML's type is">
        <opml:outline xmlns:opml=3D"whatever.." ... />
      </entry>
  </entry>

Thus, can atom be used to ship around parcels of xml snippets? I suppose =
it
could, but only so long as both ends knew what was going on, and knew na=EF=
ve
atom processors might barf on the incomplete xml, right?

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 22:02:13 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyKdJ-000381-5X
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:02:13 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA05983
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:00:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2vmf0072371;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G2vmaF072370;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.199])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G2vkEP072314
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i34so973243wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:46 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=LXx7b412NGrBXVzcUW4LQVRvoXJzdNQSRU1Of7+h2GwZWzJ20IOkPYgpiBnAuLPQzqrtheWaR9WtIqeWUUa1Y/ZZCHyz9/gkkF+WKafe/NbXxTfZ9eh/N2HlfOy98zRg/Vy0yvSeU0sKMI7F2Rn8hNcen9A+sXyzPv8RrL0IF9Y=
Received: by 10.54.120.12 with SMTP id s12mr7255859wrc;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g7sm5275239wra.2006.01.15.18.57.45;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:46 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CB0BA7.2000803@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:57:43 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id WAA05983



Eric Scheid wrote:
> But I'm not so sure it's valid now, because of the SHOULD clause below:
>=20
>     per rfc4287 section 4.1.3.3
>=20
>  [snip]
>=20
> Assume foo xml requires foo:basket as the root element. Is it valid to =
have
> atom:content with foo:thing as the immediate child?
>=20

Hey, now you're changing the scenario ;-) Item #4 of 4.1.3.3 is quite=20
clear to me.  Specifically, "If the "src" attribute is not provided,=20
this would normally mean that the "atom:content" element would contain a=20
single child element that would serve as the root element of the XML=20
document of the indicated type"

To me that says that while the example you give may be perfectly valid=20
Atom, it may not be a valid instance of the application/foo+xml media typ=
e.

> For example, an OPML document requires <opml> as the root, which contai=
ns
> <head> and <body>, the latter containing <outline> elements ... so can =
an
> atom entry contain just an <opml:outline> element?
>=20
>   <entry>
>       ...
>       <entry type=3D"whatever OPML's type is">
>         <opml:outline xmlns:opml=3D"whatever.." ... />
>       </entry>
>   </entry>
>=20

Heh.. another typo methinks ;-)

Given that OPML has no media type, the XML media type would be=20
appropriate.  Regardless, this would be perfectly valid Atom even if=20
it's not perfectly valid OPML.

    <entry>
        ...
        <content type=3D"application/xml">
          <opml:outline xmlns:opml=3D"whatever.." ... />
        </content>
    </entry>

> Thus, can atom be used to ship around parcels of xml snippets? I suppos=
e it
> could, but only so long as both ends knew what was going on, and knew n=
a=EFve
> atom processors might barf on the incomplete xml, right?
>=20

It's not really about "incomplete" XML as much as invalid XML ( in the=20
sense that the xml does not validate to a DTD or schema ).  Atom does=20
not require that content be valid, just that it be well-formed.

- James





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 22:25:12 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyKzY-0008Pn-Op
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:25:12 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA07255
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:23:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G39wp0079848;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:09:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G39wag079847;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:09:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav3.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.75])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G39vgg079841
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:09:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:09:57 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:09:56 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:09:54 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 03:09:57.0232 (UTC) FILETIME=[54631700:01C61A4A]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id WAA07255


Eric Scheid wrote:
> But I'm not so sure it's valid now, because of the SHOULD clause below:

I suppose technically it is valid since a SHOULD is a recommendation not =
a=20
requirement, but you'd need a very good reason for not following that=20
recommendation.

> For example, an OPML document requires <opml> as the root, which contai=
ns
> <head> and <body>, the latter containing <outline> elements ... so can =
an
> atom entry contain just an <opml:outline> element?
>
>  <entry>
>      ...
>      <entry type=3D"whatever OPML's type is">
>        <opml:outline xmlns:opml=3D"whatever.." ... />
>      </entry>
>  </entry>

As I said above, it's probably technically valid, but not advisable. When=
=20
you think about it, the most obvious behaviour for an Atom processor=20
encountering a document type that it doesn't understand would be to write=
 it=20
to a file and fire up whatever application has been registered with the=20
operating system for handling that type. In most cases that will only wor=
k=20
if the file is complete.

> Thus, can atom be used to ship around parcels of xml snippets? I suppos=
e=20
> it
> could, but only so long as both ends knew what was going on, and knew=20
> na=EFve
> atom processors might barf on the incomplete xml, right?

The one time I'd think it might be safe is with XHTML (as I mentioned in =
a=20
previous message) since Atom processors are already required to handle XH=
TML=20
fragments in the content element. Anything else would be highly risky unl=
ess=20
it was a proprietary feed communicating between two known applications.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 23:16:14 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyLmw-00023t-EC
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:16:14 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA09929
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:14:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G49Vo3010381;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:09:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G49VFX010380;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:09:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G49TGJ010370
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:09:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.45.41] (210.193.203.50) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:09:46 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:09:27 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF167A7.846A0%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <43CB0BA7.2000803@gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16/1/06 1:57 PM, "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:

>>   <entry>
>>       ...
>>       <entry type="whatever OPML's type is">
>>         <opml:outline xmlns:opml="whatever.." ... />
>>       </entry>
>>   </entry>
>> 
> 
> Heh.. another typo methinks ;-)

grrr! TooEarly - SufficientCoffee = Typos

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 23:30:51 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyM14-00057l-VS
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:30:51 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10654
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:29:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G4E7h3012752;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:14:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G4E7R9012751;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:14:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G4E5JP012736
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:14:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.45.41] (210.193.203.50) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:14:23 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:14:03 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16/1/06 2:09 PM, "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The one time I'd think it might be safe is with XHTML (as I mentioned in a
> previous message) since Atom processors are already required to handle XHTML
> fragments in the content element. Anything else would be highly risky unless
> it was a proprietary feed communicating between two known applications.

then you're not going to like what I was thinking of doing ... posting
<atom:category /> chunks to an APP/media collection, such that the media
collection entry might look like this (no typos this time, I hope)...

<entry>
    ...
    <content type="application/atom+xml">
        <category .../>
    </content>
</entry>

Thus, in the same sense I might have elsewhere a collection of images, I
have here a collection of atom categories.

I can hear the screaming already.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 15 23:57:46 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyMR8-00022Y-OO
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:57:46 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11840
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:56:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G4kPpW029890;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:46:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G4kPka029889;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:46:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0G4kNUh029824
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:46:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Jan 2006 04:46:17 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-245-196.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.245.196]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp036) with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 05:46:17 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 05:46:36 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060116044636.GD19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id XAA11840


Hi Eric,

* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-16 05:20]:
>then you're not going to like what I was thinking of doing ...
>posting <atom:category /> chunks to an APP/media collection,
>such that the media collection entry might look like this (no
>typos this time, I hope)...
>
><entry>
>    ...
>    <content type=3D"application/atom+xml">
>        <category .../>
>    </content>
></entry>
>
>Thus, in the same sense I might have elsewhere a collection of
>images, I have here a collection of atom categories.

That doesn=E2=80=99t even work, because this is invalid:

    <entry>
        <!-- ... -->
        <content type=3D"application/atom+xml">
            <category .../>
            <category .../>
            <category .../>
        </content>
    </entry>

An atom:content with an XML media type MUST have exactly one
child element, so you can=E2=80=99t do that. You need to wrap those
categories in something. The manifest choice is atom:entry=E2=80=A6

Which just so happens to be a valid root element for
`application/atom+xml`. Of course, you=E2=80=99re pulling in an entire
train of metadata elements at that point, which will probably be
completely redundant, so whether that is any help I don=E2=80=99t know.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 01:13:31 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyNcR-0000Uo-PU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:13:31 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA15661
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:12:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G65oh8069776;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:05:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G65o4E069775;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:05:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G65mnh069582
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:05:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.45.41] (210.193.203.50) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:36 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:16 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF182CC.846DA%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060116044636.GD19213@klangraum>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0G65nnh069770
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id BAA15661


On 16/1/06 3:46 PM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:

>> Thus, in the same sense I might have elsewhere a collection of
>> images, I have here a collection of atom categories.
>=20
> That doesn=B9t even work, because this is invalid:
>=20
>   <entry>
>       <!-- ... -->
>       <content type=3D"application/atom+xml">
>           <category .../>
>           <category .../>
>           <category .../>
>       </content>
>   </entry>

No, that isn't one entry in a collection of atom categories, that is one
entry in a collection of *bundles* of atom categories. That's as wrong
headed as trying to squeeze *three* images into the one atom media entry.

If I have three categories in the collection, then they would be in three
individual entries.

> An atom:content with an XML media type MUST have exactly one
> child element, so you can=B9t do that. You need to wrap those
> categories in something. The manifest choice is atom:entry=8A

If I have a collection of atom:categories, the atomic unit is one
atom:category. So having a collection where each entry has *one*
atom:category in the atom:content element is what I would be trying to do.

If I wanted to have a collection of _bundles_ of atom:categories, I'd
probably need some foreign element to act as the bundling element (eg.
<foo:categories>)

> Which just so happens to be a valid root element for
> `application/atom+xml`. Of course, you=B9re pulling in an entire
> train of metadata elements at that point, which will probably be
> completely redundant, so whether that is any help I don=B9t know.

I don't want that train of metadata. I already have an atom:entry with wh=
ich
to carry metadata for that content. (Heh, I could even apply atom:categor=
ies
to that content, same as any other content ;-)

The last niggling concern is with atom-format: although atom:content can
contain XML, can that be *any* XML data, or does the spec forbid atom+xml
from there? What will the validator do?

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 01:35:44 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyNxw-0004iW-DU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:35:44 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16793
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:34:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6TtOo083525;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:29:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G6TtP8083524;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:29:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6TsH2083516
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:29:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [(@@IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5F3106DE
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:29:53 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <8FA4ECC1-33D3-4476-BA74-812689839B74@fondantfancies.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:29:48 +0000
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16 Jan 2006, at 3:09 am, James Holderness wrote:

> The one time I'd think it might be safe is with XHTML (as I  
> mentioned in a previous message) since Atom processors are already  
> required to handle XHTML fragments in the content element. Anything  
> else would be highly risky unless it was a proprietary feed  
> communicating between two known applications.

Except no one bothered to tell the aggregator writers they'd have to  
implement this, so no it's not safe.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 01:54:18 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyOFu-0008Gy-4n
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:54:18 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA17637
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:52:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6nrGX097699;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:49:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G6nrdG097698;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:49:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0G6npr1097567
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:49:51 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Jan 2006 06:49:45 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-245-196.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.245.196]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp031) with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 07:49:45 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:50:02 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060116065002.GE19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id BAA17637


Hi Eric,

* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-16 05:20]:
>then you're not going to like what I was thinking of doing ...
>posting <atom:category /> chunks to an APP/media collection,
>such that the media collection entry might look like this (no
>typos this time, I hope)...
>
><entry>
>    ...
>    <content type=3D"application/atom+xml">
>        <category .../>
>    </content>
></entry>

okay, another thrust, taking into account the things you said in
your reply to the first thrust: is anything wrong with this?

    <entry>
        <!-- ... -->
        <content type=3D"application/xml">
            <category .../>
        </content>
    </entry>

This is valid Atom.

(I get a growing feeling that I should really get on the APP
list=E2=80=A6)

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 02:03:23 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyOON-0001Em-IJ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:03:06 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17994
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:01:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6vjGD003547;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:57:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G6vj2G003546;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:57:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6viMU003540
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:57:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [(@@IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 36E8A106DE; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:57:42 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <20060116065002.GE19213@klangraum>
References: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <20060116065002.GE19213@klangraum>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <F60F5D97-3152-4812-8A8B-A1C0E54D6D38@fondantfancies.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:57:39 +0000
To: "A.Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16 Jan 2006, at 6:50 am, A. Pagaltzis wrote:

> okay, another thrust, taking into account the things you said in
> your reply to the first thrust: is anything wrong with this?
>
>     <entry>
>         <!-- ... -->
>         <content type="application/xml">
>             <category .../>
>         </content>
>     </entry>
>
> This is valid Atom.

Two options:
1) Valid but completely meaningless, since category Atom documents  
aren't defined anywhere.
2) Invalid, since category Atom documents aren't defined anywhere.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 02:11:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyOWc-00034b-AQ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:11:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA18347
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:10:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6w65l003768;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G6w6pc003767;
	Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G6w5b4003760
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from manojpec@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so976086nzn
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:05 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:to:subject:references:message-id:from:organization:content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:date:in-reply-to:user-agent;
        b=iSCdoNWQ0DRMKfwutJCUYSYm4orI5ooroTFDqKLtGOQ9s5dlUDJwX1VLKua3xTSJW5ZaWmCnhMt3SjyGlByzzgXEI8IpAXjUVPoTrXzc7WU3fYsyObTP2fGqPPetr0raIJmiWn7SCweG6l6I6g+iIInEdxEDpkQbPdy33kMSbQU=
Received: by 10.36.4.18 with SMTP id 18mr4775453nzd;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from manojg-1xp.hq.netapp.com ( [202.122.17.46])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 36sm2806077nza.2006.01.15.22.58.03;
        Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:58:04 -0800 (PST)
To: "Graham Parks" <graham@fondantfancies.com>,
        atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <8FA4ECC1-33D3-4476-BA74-812689839B74@fondantfancies.com>
Message-ID: <op.s3glmwma87lvlb@manojg-1xp.hq.netapp.com>
From: Manoj <manojpec@gmail.com>
Organization: www.google.com/gmail
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:27:58 +0530
In-Reply-To: <8FA4ECC1-33D3-4476-BA74-812689839B74@fondantfancies.com>
User-Agent: Opera M2/8.51 (Win32, build 7712)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


I aggree to this point

-Manoj

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:59:48 +0530, Graham Parks  
<graham@fondantfancies.com> wrote:

>
> On 16 Jan 2006, at 3:09 am, James Holderness wrote:
>
>> The one time I'd think it might be safe is with XHTML (as I mentioned  
>> in a previous message) since Atom processors are already required to  
>> handle XHTML fragments in the content element. Anything else would be  
>> highly risky unless it was a proprietary feed communicating between two  
>> known applications.
>
> Except no one bothered to tell the aggregator writers they'd have to  
> implement this, so no it's not safe.
>
> Graham
>





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 04:07:47 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyQL5-0004if-Hm
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:07:47 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA25798
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:06:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G8u2cP076843;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:56:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0G8u249076836;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:56:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0G8u1Sf076785
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:56:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:56:18 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:55:58 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF1AACE.84721%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <8FA4ECC1-33D3-4476-BA74-812689839B74@fondantfancies.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 16/1/06 5:29 PM, "Graham Parks" <graham@fondantfancies.com> wrote:

> Except no one bothered to tell the aggregator writers they'd have to
> implement this, so no it's not safe.

so atom is good for schlepping documents about, but not for elements of
documents (with two exceptions) :-(

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 10:30:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyWJ5-0006Im-Bu
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:30:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20519
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:28:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFLAoN072004;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:21:10 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GFLABC072003;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:21:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFL9Gc071997
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:21:09 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:21:09 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV16D705031405E5E02A4B36BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:09 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF168BB.846A2%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:06 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 15:21:09.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A44BFD0:01C61AB0]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Eric Scheid wrote:
> then you're not going to like what I was thinking of doing ... posting
> <atom:category /> chunks to an APP/media collection, such that the media
> collection entry might look like this (no typos this time, I hope)...
>
> <entry>
>    ...
>    <content type="application/atom+xml">
>        <category .../>
>    </content>
> </entry>

Now that we're talking about APP things are slightly different. I wouldn't 
necessarily expect an Atom aggregator to be able to handle APP media feeds 
in a useful way, so if APP decided to do something wierd with atom:content 
elements I wouldn't be particularly concerned as long as it were documented 
well enough that APP clients would know how to handle it.

However, as it stands this wouldn't be a valid media collection according to 
the APP spec since the media resource is supposed to be stored external to 
the collection feed and referenced via a content src link. Even then, I'd 
think you'd need a different type to signfy that the content was in fact a 
collection element and not an Atom document.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 10:38:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyWRR-0007ce-3z
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:38:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21213
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:37:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFXNwM079859;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GFXMkZ079858;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFXMWo079831
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from antone@geckotribe.com)
Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-67-177-6-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net[67.177.6.93])
          by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP
          id <2006011615322101400dkiqke>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:33:17 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com>
From: Antone Roundy <antone@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:32:20 -0700
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0GFXMWo079853
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id KAA21213


On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:09 PM, James Holderness wrote:
>> Thus, can atom be used to ship around parcels of xml snippets? I =20
>> suppose it
>> could, but only so long as both ends knew what was going on, and =20
>> knew na=EFve
>> atom processors might barf on the incomplete xml, right?
>
> The one time I'd think it might be safe is with XHTML (as I =20
> mentioned in a previous message) since Atom processors are already =20
> required to handle XHTML fragments in the content element. Anything =20
> else would be highly risky unless it was a proprietary feed =20
> communicating between two known applications.

Processing type=3D"xhtml" and type=3D"application/xhtml+xml" are very =20
different beasts.  Say your application converts Atom feeds to HTML =20
to display in webpages.  With type=3D"xhtml", the data could just be =20
dumped into the webpage (after appropriate stripping of nasty tags =20
and CSS and such).  With type=3D"application/xhtml+xml", you'd have to =20
figure out to do with everything outside of the <body> element.  If =20
there's CSS involved for example, simply throwing it away could lead =20
to some very messed up display.  But assuming your application is =20
being called from within the webpage, it's not going to have the =20
opportunity to add a <style> section to the document's <head>.  So to =20
avoid losing the styling, for example, it would have to replace all =20
id=3D"foo" and class=3D"bar" attributes with style=3D"all of the styling =
=20
for the id and class and parent classes, etc., with all cascading =20
applied".  In other words, it's not going to happen.  Given the =20
tremendously increased complexity involved, some apps are likely to =20
refuse to process anything that's not one of Atom's three special types.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 10:41:22 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyWTy-0008NO-Tc
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:41:22 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21476
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:39:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFXhDZ080077;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GFXhbx080076;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFXgtH080063
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:33:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:33:53 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:33:34 +1100
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF207FE.847E5%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV16D705031405E5E02A4B36BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 17/1/06 2:21 AM, "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote:

> the media resource is supposed to be stored external to
> the collection feed and referenced via a content src link

hmmm ... premature optimisation due to common use case of binary content?

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 11:07:10 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyWsv-00084k-NU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:07:10 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23803
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:05:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GFrfUG089596;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:53:41 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GFrfqI089595;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:53:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0GFrdg9089535
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:53:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Jan 2006 15:53:34 -0000
Received: from xdsl-81-173-174-73.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.174.73]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp037) with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 16:53:34 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:53:52 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060116155352.GG19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


* Antone Roundy <antone@geckotribe.com> [2006-01-16 16:40]:
>With type="xhtml", the data could just be  dumped into the
>webpage (after appropriate stripping of nasty tags  and CSS and
>such).  With type="application/xhtml+xml", you'd have to  figure
>out to do with everything outside of the <body> element.

I figure the canonical approach is going to be an iframe.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 12:14:35 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyXwA-0000Ky-Pw
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:14:35 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28854
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:13:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GGxma7012686;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:59:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GGxmKF012685;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:59:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GGxl53012651
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:59:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:59:42 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:59:42 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:59:39 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 16:59:42.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EE2D7C0:01C61ABE]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Antone Roundy wrote:
> Processing type="xhtml" and type="application/xhtml+xml" are very 
> different beasts.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. Bare in mind that the 0.3 Atom spec had 
type="application/xhtml+xml" with basically the same functionality as the 
current type="xhtml". Now since Atom 0.3 is still a whole lot more widely 
used than Atom 1.0, you can be fairly sure than anyone that bothers to 
handle XML content at all will be capable of handling 
type="application/xhtml+xml" containing xhtml fragments.

It's possible that an aggregator might specifically check for version 1.0 of 
Atom and choose to process type="application/xhtml+xml" in a different way, 
but that is extremely unlikely. Every Atom aggregator that I've tested that 
was capable of processing XML content (admittedly not that many) has been 
able to process xhtml fragments when labeled with 
type="application/xhtml+xml".

> With type="application/xhtml+xml", you'd have to  figure out to do with 
> everything outside of the <body> element.  If  there's CSS involved for 
> example, simply throwing it away could lead  to some very messed up 
> display.

If an aggregator is filtering (x)html content to strip nasty tags (and I'd 
hope that most are) then they should already be stripping css. And since 
there's nothing stopping a malicious content provider from including a full 
xhtml document as part of type="xhtml" content (yes, it's illegal, but that 
doesn't stop it), a careful aggregator should already be stripping off any 
other sub-elements of <head> that might cause problems.

> Given the  tremendously increased complexity involved, some apps are 
> likely to  refuse to process anything that's not one of Atom's three 
> special types.

It doesn't have to be more complex. If you are already handling type="xhtml" 
safely, it's perfectly feasible to treat type="application/xhtml+xml" in the 
same way (and most aggregators do). And it certainly isn't advisable to only 
support Atom's three special types when there are considerably more feeds 
using MIME types than there are feeds using the basic three.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 12:27:33 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyY8j-00073h-IS
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:27:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29887
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:26:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GHJT9q017228;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:19:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GHJTsv017227;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:19:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav1.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.73])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GHJSug017200
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:19:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:19:23 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV156BF11EEBE2388E8AA20BE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:19:23 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF207FE.847E5%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:19:20 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 17:19:23.0772 (UTC) FILETIME=[FECFEBC0:01C61AC0]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Eric Scheid wrote:
> On 17/1/06 2:21 AM, "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> the media resource is supposed to be stored external to
>> the collection feed and referenced via a content src link
>
> hmmm ... premature optimisation due to common use case of binary content?

Possibly. But technically even entry collections store their content 
externally. If you look at section 9 of the APP spec (Listing Collections) 
they sneak in a note saying that an atom:entry in an entry collection is not 
guaranteed to be a full representation of the data either. A client is 
expected to download the full entry from the "edit" link before making any 
attempt to update it.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 15:44:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EybDO-0004Ub-Nf
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:44:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13875
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:43:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GKQIDt076376;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:26:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GKQI1I076375;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:26:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GKQH8n076369
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:26:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [(@@IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8141106E1
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:26:14 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:26:10 +0000
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



On 16 Jan 2006, at 4:59 pm, James Holderness wrote:

> In theory, yes. In practice, no. Bare in mind that the 0.3 Atom  
> spec had type="application/xhtml+xml" with basically the same  
> functionality as the current type="xhtml". Now since Atom 0.3 is  
> still a whole lot more widely used than Atom 1.0, you can be fairly  
> sure than anyone that bothers to handle XML content at all will be  
> capable of handling type="application/xhtml+xml" containing xhtml  
> fragments.

Speak for yourself. It's crappy assumptions like this that made RSS  
hellish to work with. Atom is unambiguous. "application/xhtml+xml"  
means the page content is a full standalone web page.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 18:28:24 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eydlw-0000iF-Le
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:28:24 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24853
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:26:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GNLO1q040855;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GNLNjd040854;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav8.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.80])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GNLNap040847
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:21:23 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:21:23 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:21:19 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2006 23:21:23.0542 (UTC) FILETIME=[90CDCF60:01C61AF3]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Graham Parks wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2006, at 4:59 pm, James Holderness wrote:
>> Now since Atom 0.3 is  still a whole lot more widely used than Atom 1.0, 
>> you can be fairly  sure than anyone that bothers to handle XML content at 
>> all will be  capable of handling type="application/xhtml+xml" containing 
>> xhtml  fragments.
>
> Speak for yourself.

I was speaking from experience having tested several different Atom 
aggregators. And I wasn't making any guarantees about anything. I just said 
you could be *fairly* sure that applications would support xhtml fragments.

For example, below are the results of some tests I've run on 15 aggregators. 
The tests included the use of a <div> tag as the root element, a <p> tag as 
the root element, and an <html> tag as the root element (i.e. a complete 
xhtml document).

The following applications worked with all three tests:
BlogBridge 2.7
Bloglines
BottomFeeder 4.1
Google Reader
Snarfer 0.1.2

The following applications worked with the <div> tag and the <p> tag, but 
failed to handle a full document (the <html> tag):
FeedDemon 1.5
GreatNews 1.0.0.354
Newz Crawler 1.8.0
RSS Bandit 1.3.0.38
SharpReader 0.9.6.0

The following applications couldn't display any of the entries:
JetBrains Omea 2.0
Netvibes
Newsgator Online
RSSOwl 1.2
Thunderbird 1.6a1 (wouldn't subscribe)

Draw your own conclusions.

> It's crappy assumptions like this that made RSS  hellish to work with. 
> Atom is unambiguous. "application/xhtml+xml"  means the page content is a 
> full standalone web page.

Not true. Atom *recommends* that the page content is a full standalone web 
page. It's not a requirement. Clearly Atom isn't as free of assumptions as 
you might have hoped. It sure isn't any less hellish to work with.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 18:50:44 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eye7Y-0006pQ-8B
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:50:44 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26239
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:49:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GNj9bU048217;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:45:09 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0GNj94s048216;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:45:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0GNj9GY048175
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:45:09 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from antone@geckotribe.com)
Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-67-177-6-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net[67.177.6.93])
          by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP
          id <2006011623450201200h1ov2e>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:45:03 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <03FDE3B7-BEA5-4091-85E9-9494279D0DD5@geckotribe.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Antone Roundy <antone@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:45:01 -0700
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On Jan 16, 2006, at 4:21 PM, James Holderness wrote:
> For example, below are the results of some tests I've run on 15  
> aggregators. The tests included the use of a <div> tag as the root  
> element, a <p> tag as the root element, and an <html> tag as the  
> root element (i.e. a complete xhtml document).
>
> The following applications worked with all three tests:
> BlogBridge 2.7
> Bloglines
> BottomFeeder 4.1
> Google Reader
> Snarfer 0.1.2
>
> The following applications worked with the <div> tag and the <p>  
> tag, but failed to handle a full document (the <html> tag):
> FeedDemon 1.5
> GreatNews 1.0.0.354
> Newz Crawler 1.8.0
> RSS Bandit 1.3.0.38
> SharpReader 0.9.6.0

Out of curiosity, what constitutes success in the <html> case?  I'm  
mostly curious about the browser based readers.  If they displayed  
the content within a webpage, but failed to strip out the <html>, </ 
html>, <body> and </body> tags and <head> section (assuming the test  
feed contained one), would that be a success or failure?  What did  
the apps that failed do in the <html> case?




From asrg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 16 20:10:05 2006
Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyfML-00028N-SL; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:10:05 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EyfMJ-00027r-Qt
	for asrg@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:10:03 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA00926
	for <asrg@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:08:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EyfUJ-0004I2-Bj
	for asrg@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:18:21 -0500
Received: from [168.61.10.151] (SJC-Office-DHCP-151.Mail-Abuse.ORG
	[168.61.10.151]) (authenticated bits=0)
	by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0H18tGT028311
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:08:56 -0800
In-Reply-To: <43CBF4CD.30708@dcrocker.net>
References: <OF4768D65E.ECA3CB39-ON802570F8.004A9BA8-802570F8.004AA408@slc.co.uk>
	<43CBF4CD.30708@dcrocker.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <C89F1142-5A4C-40EC-8A1C-0E74B9F81CE7@mail-abuse.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Douglas Otis <dotis@mail-abuse.org>
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Email service assumptions and making system-wide changes
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:08:55 -0800
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: asrg@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>,
	<mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>,
	<mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: asrg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-bounces@ietf.org


On Jan 16, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:

> The nature of Internet applications is that they go through  
> incremental change over extended periods of time, both adapting to  
> changes in the environments and adding mechanisms to support added  
> functionality.  Much like a social process...
>
> Folks need to observe that the other global communications services  
> lack the kinds of authentication mechanisms that are so readily  
> claimed to be "essential" for today's proper Internet mail  
> operation.  That those other services have other features, which  
> tend to mitigate the abuses that dominate Internet mail, is a  
> matter of accident, rather than planning.
>
> On the matter of a redesign, we have two problems:
>
> 1.  It is not clear that it is needed.  Those claiming the need for  
> a redesign take it on faith that one is needed.  This is akin to  
> ready-shoot-aim. A re-design effort makes sense only after two pre- 
> conditions are met:
>
>    a) new requirements are formulated and gain community consensus,  
> and

DKIM is a good start, provided SSP is scuttled.  Constraints on From  
address will be highly disruptive, impractical to obtain, and yet  
easily circumvented by bad actors.  Perhaps at some point email  
readers and list-servers will accommodate a strategy where the From  
address represents a component of the transport, rather than the  
author of the message, but to what end?

Rather than depending upon super human vision, or the acquisition of  
thousands of look-alike domains by the various institutions, a  
cryptographic signature allows the recipient's email application to  
register and uniquely recognize a prior correspondent.  This source  
recognition models the innate ability of humans to identify a unique  
voice or a face.  By highlighting recognized sources, attempts at  
pretending to be one of these correspondents would be easily noticed  
by the lack of highlighting.

The signature also allows the signing-domain to include a non-spoof- 
able opaque-identifier that could be used to track the account used  
to gain access without introducing yet another email-address.  A  
large portion of spam is from compromised systems.  Providing third- 
parties a low cost solution to tracking such systems would be a  
positive step at overcoming this significant problem.  For example,  
there are many services that offer a free system scrub, but the  
account in trouble must be notified.  This type of opaque-identifier  
would also allow the recipient's email application to detect intra- 
domain spoofing without any administration and verification of  
specific authorizations of who can use what email-address.  Email- 
address freedom and independence can be retained using this approach.


> The heuristic I use for considering system-wide responses to spam,  
> and the like, is to ask whether the feature would be good to have,  
> even if abuses were not a major problem.  Hence, current abuses  
> serve merely as motivators.

Being able to recognize a prior correspondent should represent a  
desirable feature independent of the role this could play at abating  
abuse.  Source recognition also allows blocking the account, without  
expecting a miscreant to cooperate and always use the same email- 
address.

-Doug




_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg

From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 16 20:14:57 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyfR2-0003Te-V5
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:14:57 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01244
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:13:31 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0H15YSo087690;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0H15YUE087689;
	Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0H15YNw087671
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 17:05:33 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV185CC3AD5F60DFF130C24CBE1A0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:05:33 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <03FDE3B7-BEA5-4091-85E9-9494279D0DD5@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:05:30 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 01:05:33.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E4B3E50:01C61B02]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Antone Roundy wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what constitutes success in the <html> case?  I'm 
> mostly curious about the browser based readers.

It was very clear when something had failed - the message content would just 
be blank (or in one case a message saying that there was no content). There 
weren't any partial failures (like not showing the markup, or showing 
extraneous markup, or anything like that).

It's possible that those that succeeded could have been made to produce a 
less than perfect display by doing weird stuff in the head section of the 
<html> example, but I wasn't trying to make things complicated. I just went 
with the simplest valid example I could.

> If they displayed  the content within a webpage, but failed to strip out 
> the <html>, </ html>, <body> and </body> tags and <head> section (assuming 
> the test  feed contained one), would that be a success or failure?

In one case I did a "view|source" which showed that they were nesting the 
entire document (from <html> to </html>) in the middle of the rest of their 
markup. I'm not sure why, but that resulted in a blank message body. I can't 
remember if that was a browser aggregator or stand-alone client but either 
way it was using browser technology to display the content.

If you want to do any further tests or check out my test feed you can find 
it here:
http://216.93.169.119/atomtests/applicationxml/everything.atom

I don't *think* I screwed anything up. It validates in feedvalidator 
(obviously warning about the two entries that used document fragments), and 
the content from the full xhtml test validates in the W3C validator (using 
XHTML 1.0 Strict for the doctype).

Regards
James






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 10:22:17 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eysf3-0005qq-9d
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:22:17 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23358
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:20:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HF7mpM096015;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:07:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HF7mXI096003;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:07:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0HF7jgM095957
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:07:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Jan 2006 15:07:39 -0000
Received: from xdsl-81-173-169-171.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.169.171]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 16:07:39 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:08:00 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id KAA23358


Hi James,

I am afraid I have to side with Graham.

* James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com> [2006-01-17 00:30]:
>>It's crappy assumptions like this that made RSS  hellish to
>>work with. Atom is unambiguous. "application/xhtml+xml"  means
>>the page content is a full standalone web page.
>
>Not true. Atom *recommends* that the page content is a full
>standalone web page. It's not a requirement.

No. RFC4287 does not merely recommend it, it RECOMMENDS it.

`application/xhtml+xml` is not mentioned in the document at
all, but the pertinent section in 4.1.3.3 says:

    4.  If the value of "type" is an XML media type [RFC3023] or
        ends with "+xml" or "/xml" (case insensitive), the
        content of atom:content MAY include child elements and
        SHOULD be suitable for handling as the indicated media
        type.  If the "src" attribute is not provided, this would
        normally mean that the "atom:content" element would
        contain a single child element that would serve as the
        root element of the XML document of the indicated type.

I don=E2=80=99t know about you, but I consider a SHOULD to be pretty
strong language.

Aggregators which process @type=3D'application/xhtml+xml' as if it
was @type=3D'xhtml' are in error. Period.

Now, realworld constraints may mean that aggregators are forced
to do this, because too few people who made the transition from
0.3 to 1.0 took the time to implement the new spec properly.
That=E2=80=99s another matter.

But *the spec* leaves not a shadow of a doubt about what it means
when the type of content is `application/xhtml+xml`.

Thus, content producers who still follow the 0.3 custom are
clearly in error too. Period.

Atom is unambiguous. People may misuse it. That=E2=80=99s the extent of
the story.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 12:03:48 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyuFH-0007Yp-Uk
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:03:47 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00736
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:02:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HGZnpi024582;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HGZncK024581;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HGZmfP024575
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1308483nzn
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:48 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=S9KhJirladYSNeIfNWg4r01zNlpllCh8BTpgF8ersi/EiLdmmj8UzkDlY1ftslMHNoAna6OTMqFTuA4OB8DWtNw8xnwn6BVEhSwC06rsVzwIXXza1Kl7b20Vne/ix5v3XHG0Zzam1JDHAio4QDY9Vkv0X8zcLGUwfm9XhYg89G4=
Received: by 10.36.77.8 with SMTP id z8mr6014850nza;
        Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:35:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601170835h1a32f6a0m72b6138242ccf2a@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:35:48 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0HGZmfP024576
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


>> It's crappy assumptions like this that made RSS hellish to work with. Atom is
>> unambiguous. "application/xhtml+xml" means the page content is a full
>>standalone web page.
>
> Not true. Atom *recommends* that the page content is a full standalone web
> page. It's not a requirement.

Atom also says that you should expect it not to work.

> Clearly Atom isn't as free of assumptions as you
> might have hoped. It sure isn't any less hellish to work with.

This has not been my experience.  In Thunderbird, there's been one bug
filed against the Atom 1.0 parser I wrote in two hours, and that bug
was undeniably supported by the spec.

I guess you can make it just as hard if you really try. The typed
variants of the content element are an extension point. You could put
application/xaml+xml in there, but I wouldn't expect many aggregators
to support it. It is, however, accurately labeled.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 13:14:18 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyvLW-0003bw-Mh
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:14:18 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05923
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:12:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HI45d3053536;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:04:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HI45M3053535;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:04:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav24.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.96])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HI454B053529
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:04:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:04:04 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:04:04 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:04:00 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=original
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 18:04:04.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[673624C0:01C61B90]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id NAA05923


A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> No. RFC4287 does not merely recommend it, it RECOMMENDS it.
>
>  I don=E2=80=99t know about you, but I consider a SHOULD to be pretty
> strong language.

I consider it as strong as its definition which clearly says: "there may=20
exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular it=
em,=20
but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before=
=20
choosing a different course."

I don't take SHOULD recommendations lightly, but I think I've shown some=20
pretty compelling reasons why a producer (if they really absolutely have =
to=20
use "application/xhtml+xml"), would be wiser to use an xhtml document=20
fragment than a complete xhml document. Of course the wisest move would b=
e=20
to not use any form of xml at all, but that's not what was being discusse=
d.

> Aggregators which process @type=3D'application/xhtml+xml' as if it
> was @type=3D'xhtml' are in error. Period.

This argument I don't understand. The spec, while recommending (super=20
strongly recommending, if you will) that the content should be a full xht=
ml=20
document, clearly also allows that "there may exist valid reasons in=20
particular circumstances [for a producer] to ignore [that recommendation]=
".=20
How can an aggregator that makes allowances for such an eventuallity be i=
n=20
error?

Or are you suggesting that RFC4287 is making some other requirement of At=
om=20
aggregators that I've missed? According to Rob, the spec doesn't actually=
=20
require that Atom aggregators do anything with MIME types. I'm not sure I=
=20
agree with him completely, but section 4.1.3.3 only tells you what to exp=
ect=20
to find in the content, not what you are required to do with it.

> But *the spec* leaves not a shadow of a doubt about what it means
> when the type of content is `application/xhtml+xml`.
>
> Thus, content producers who still follow the 0.3 custom are
> clearly in error too. Period.

This argument I understand, but I still disagree. I'm willing to accept t=
hat=20
this behaviour is highly discouraged, but it's not a REQUIREMENT and it's=
=20
not an error. Try persauding anyone on the feedvalidator mailing list tha=
t=20
SHOULD recommendations should all be flagged as errors and see how far yo=
u=20
get. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that will disagree with you.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 14:07:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EywBD-00070j-GG
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:07:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09887
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:06:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HIk1dS074755;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:46:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HIk1X1074754;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:46:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HIk0Cj074640
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:46:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from antone@geckotribe.com)
Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-67-177-6-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net[67.177.6.93])
          by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP
          id <2006011718455201500ammhqe>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:45:53 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <17D1813A-C331-4BFA-937F-FC1574316DC8@geckotribe.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Antone Roundy <antone@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:45:51 -0700
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, James Holderness wrote:
> but I think I've shown some pretty compelling reasons why a  
> producer (if they really absolutely have to use "application/xhtml 
> +xml"), would be wiser to use an xhtml document fragment than a  
> complete xhml document.

I'm all for consuming applications that want to be really smart  
checking whether the content of <content type="application/xhtml 
+xml"> is a fragment or a complete document and handling either, but  
if your content is an xhtml document fragment, is there any reason at  
all to publish type="application/xhtml+xml" rather than  
type="xhtml"?  The only justification that comes to mind is if you  
want to make a political protest statement against the required  
wrapper div.  But unless you prominently warn your users that your  
app is doing this, you're doing them a grave disservice by making  
their feed content less likely to be seen.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 14:32:21 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EywZ3-0004Hu-14
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:32:21 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11766
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:30:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HJL0tC080628;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:21:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HJL0Dg080627;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:21:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0HJKwdB080591
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:20:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Jan 2006 19:20:52 -0000
Received: from xdsl-81-173-169-171.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.169.171]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 20:20:52 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:21:13 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id OAA11766


Hi James,

* James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com> [2006-01-17 19:10]:
>>Aggregators which process @type=3D'application/xhtml+xml' as if
>>it was @type=3D'xhtml' are in error. Period.
>
>This argument I don't understand. The spec, while recommending
>(super strongly recommending, if you will) that the content
>should be a full xhtml document, clearly also allows that "there
>may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances [for a
>producer] to ignore [that recommendation]". How can an
>aggregator that makes allowances for such an eventuallity be in
>error?

To recommend conflating `xhtml` and `application/xhtml+xml` is to
deprive content producers of precise expressibility of intent.

The question is, what does the document mean?

RFC 4287 states that saying something is `application/xhtml+xml`
means that it is `application/xhtml+xml`. If I ship entries in a
feed that are marked `application/xhtml+xml` then I really *mean*
they are `application/xhtml+xml` and I don=E2=80=99t want the processor
at the other end second-guessing me, thanksverymuch.

Now, if you save the string on the following line in a file:
<p>Hello world!</p>
with an extension of `.html` and open the file in a webbrowser,
you are unlikely to a complaint. (Even if it=E2=80=99s `.xhtml`.) This is
the point at which the question of whether `application/xhtml+xml`
permits document fragments becomes one-third academical.

But when I ship `application/xhtml+xml`, I want it treated as a
full document, not inline content. That=E2=80=99s why I=E2=80=99m using t=
he MIME
type in the first place, instead of saying it=E2=80=99s `xhtml`. I don=E2=
=80=99t
want aggregators to be guessing whether an escaped left angle
bracket in my title marks a tag when I=E2=80=99ve clearly labelled the
thing @type=3D'text' either.

>>Thus, content producers who still follow the 0.3 custom are
>>clearly in error too. Period.
>
>This argument I understand, but I still disagree. I'm willing to
>accept that this behaviour is highly discouraged, but it's not a
>REQUIREMENT and it's not an error. Try persauding anyone on the
>feedvalidator mailing list that SHOULD recommendations should
>all be flagged as errors and see how far you get. I'm pretty
>sure I'm not the only one that will disagree with you.

Of course. Please don=E2=80=99t put words in my mouth; a SHOULD is not a
MUST. In fact I myself argued back then that this requirement can
only be a SHOULD, because expecting Atom processors to enforce a
MUST is nonsensical =E2=80=93 no Atom processor is ever going to know
whether some content labelled with a MIME type that the processor
does not support is valid as the type of content it claims to be.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 15:56:26 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyxsQ-0003AV-8f
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:26 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17470
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:54:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKe0bb018981;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:40:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HKe06m018980;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:40:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKe033018964
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:40:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:40:00 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:39:59 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:39:54 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=original
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 20:40:00.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F6F4420:01C61BA6]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA17470


A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> Aggregators which process @type=3D'application/xhtml+xml' as if it
> was @type=3D'xhtml' are in error. Period.
>
> To recommend conflating `xhtml` and `application/xhtml+xml` is to
> deprive content producers of precise expressibility of intent.

So what is your intent? What do you expect aggregators to do with that=20
content? Show it as some sort of document attachment that the user would=20
have to save to disk and then open up in a separate browser window? Right=
=20
now I'm displaying "appliction/xhtml+xml" documents inline (as do many ot=
her=20
aggregators). That happens to involve exactly the same process as display=
ing=20
type=3D"xhtml" content inline. You're saying that that is an error, but I=
=20
don't see anything in the spec that substantiates that assertion.

> RFC 4287 states that saying something is `application/xhtml+xml`
> means that it is `application/xhtml+xml`. If I ship entries in a
> feed that are marked `application/xhtml+xml` then I really *mean*
> they are `application/xhtml+xml` and I don=E2=80=99t want the processor
> at the other end second-guessing me, thanksverymuch.

This has got nothing to do with second-guessing. Just pretend for a momen=
t=20
that there was no such thing as the "xhtml" type. Now the question is wha=
t=20
is the correct way for an aggregator to display an "application/xhtml+xml=
"=20
document. There's nothing in the spec that says an aggregator can't displ=
ay=20
that document inline. That's not second-guessing, that's an implementatio=
n=20
choice. The fact that displaying such a document inline turns out to invo=
lve=20
the same process as the "xhtml" type is irrelevant.

> But when I ship `application/xhtml+xml`, I want it treated as a
> full document, not inline content. That=E2=80=99s why I=E2=80=99m using=
 the MIME
> type in the first place, instead of saying it=E2=80=99s `xhtml`.

That's not an entirely unreasonable interpretation of what the spec might=
=20
mean, but it's not the only interpretation. My interpretation of the spec=
 is=20
that MIME types are there to allow for content not covered by the three=20
basic types. So if I wanted my content to be a pdf document or a jpg (as=20
*inline* content), I could do so by specifying the necessary MIME type an=
d=20
encoding them in whatever format the spec required for that type.

A really smart aggregator would probably have built-in support for severa=
l=20
common types, perhaps have plugins for less common types, and worst case=20
fall back to saving to disk when it knows nothing about the type at all=20
(much like web browsers and email clients). If I specifically wanted to=20
include content that should be rendered out-of-line or displayed as an=20
attachment, I would use an enclosure link.

Following my reasoning, application/xhtml+xml documents are just another=20
extension type for which I happen to have built-in support and can be=20
rendered inline.

>>>Thus, content producers who still follow the 0.3 custom are
>>>clearly in error too. Period.
>
> Of course. Please don=E2=80=99t put words in my mouth; a SHOULD is not =
a
> MUST.

My apologies then. I've obviously misunderstood what you're saying. The=20
example feed shown below is using what I believe to be 0.3 customs (i.e. =
the=20
type set to "application/xhtml+xml", but the content is not a complete xh=
tml=20
document):

<?xml version=3D"1.0" encoding=3D"utf-8"?>
   <feed xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">

     <title>Example Feed</title>
     <link href=3D"http://example.org/"/>
     <updated>2003-12-13T18:30:02Z</updated>
     <author>
       <name>John Doe</name>
     </author>
     <id>urn:uuid:60a76c80-d399-11d9-b93C-0003939e0af6</id>

     <entry>
       <title>Atom-Powered Robots Run Amok</title>
       <link href=3D"http://example.org/2003/12/13/atom03"/>
       <id>urn:uuid:1225c695-cfb8-4ebb-aaaa-80da344efa6a</id>
       <updated>2003-12-13T18:30:02Z</updated>
       <content type=3D"application/xhtml+xml">
       <div xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Some text.</div>
       </content>
     </entry>

   </feed>

Now your words were that a content producer following 0.3 customs would b=
e=20
in error. From that I concluded that you believed the above document woul=
d=20
be in error. And since the only thing I can see wrong with this document =
is=20
a SHOULD violation, I assumed you were claiming a SHOULD violation was an=
=20
error. Where did my line of reasoning go wrong?

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 16:02:09 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eyxxx-0004wy-Bi
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:02:09 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18594
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:00:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKl8wA022263;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:47:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HKl8dv022262;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:47:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.85])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKl88c022194
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:47:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:47:03 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV137EE6B51999AE5FDB5728BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:47:02 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <68fba5c50601170835h1a32f6a0m72b6138242ccf2a@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:46:59 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 20:47:03.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B960C20:01C61BA7]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Robert Sayre wrote:
>> Not true. Atom *recommends* that the page content is a full standalone 
>> web
>> page. It's not a requirement.
>
> Atom also says that you should expect it not to work.

You shouldn't expect any MIME types to work, or specifically MIME types that 
aren't full standalone documents?

> variants of the content element are an extension point. You could put
> application/xaml+xml in there, but I wouldn't expect many aggregators
> to support it. It is, however, accurately labeled.

I wouldn't either, but I wouldn't expect an Atom aggregator to fail to 
subscribe to such a feed, which is what happened to Thunderbird on my test 
feed [1]. To be more precise, I clicked on "Manage subscriptions", "Add", 
entered the url, checked the "Show the article summary" box, and then 
clicked OK. It just sat there in the "RSS subscriptions" dialog saying 
"Verifying the RSS feed..." and never finished. If I close the dialog, it 
asks "Are you sure you wish to cancel subscribing to the current feed?". 
Version 1.6a1 (20051213) on Windows XP SP2.

Regards
James

[1] http://216.93.169.119/atomtests/applicationxml/everything.atom




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 16:07:05 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eyy2j-0006Yp-Qi
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:07:05 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19656
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:05:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKtwjb026930;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:55:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HKtwSc026929;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:55:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HKtvan026895
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:55:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV18DD02FEDDBB0E04479DBCBE1A0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:55:52 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <17D1813A-C331-4BFA-937F-FC1574316DC8@geckotribe.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:55:48 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 20:55:52.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[67265960:01C61BA8]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Antone Roundy wrote:
> I'm all for consuming applications that want to be really smart  checking 
> whether the content of <content type="application/xhtml +xml"> is a 
> fragment or a complete document and handling either, but  if your content 
> is an xhtml document fragment, is there any reason at  all to publish 
> type="application/xhtml+xml" rather than  type="xhtml"?

First off I wouldn't recommend using XML content at all because I don't 
think the aggregator support is very widespread yet. But if you were 
determined to use an XML type you may decide to choose application/xhtml+xml 
for backwards compatibility with aggregators that don't yet implement Atom 
1.0. I'm not sure whether there are any aggregators that fall into this 
catagory but it's not an unreasonable hypothesis.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 16:58:05 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Eyyq5-0004dr-81
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:58:05 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28385
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:56:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HLpsMB054525;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:51:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HLpsAF054524;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:51:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mta08-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mta08-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HLprf1054467
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:51:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net)
Received: from aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35])
          by mta08-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060117215147.ONFI3466.mta08-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:51:47 +0000
Received: from cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com ([81.111.201.153])
          by aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060117215147.CULB10196.aamta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com>
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:51:47 +0000
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:51:44 +0000
From: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.65) Professional
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <1889491893.20060117215144@djpowell.net>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
In-Reply-To: <777429115.20060117214823@djpowell.net>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl> <777429115.20060117214823@djpowell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 9:48:22 PM, I wrote:

> Eg: perhaps the publisher is attempting to send a HTML document that
> they saved in Word, full of CSS styles, that is intended for printing. [*]

[*] Off-topic rant:

Let's hope that the user doesn't attempt to publish their document
as .mhtml, which is bizarrely banned from appearing in Atom. I
suppose it could be base64 encoded and typed as application/octet-stream.

Hmm.


-- 
Dave




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 17:01:33 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EyytR-0005Wq-FH
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:01:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28627
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:00:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HLmZt4052899;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:48:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HLmZ13052897;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:48:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HLmYrx052818
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:48:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net)
Received: from aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35])
          by mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060117214826.CKZQ6790.mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>;
          Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:48:26 +0000
Received: from cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com ([81.111.201.153])
          by aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060117214825.BSER19063.aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com>;
          Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:48:25 +0000
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:48:22 +0000
From: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.65) Professional
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <777429115.20060117214823@djpowell.net>
To: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 8:39:54 PM, James Holderness wrote:

> This has got nothing to do with second-guessing. Just pretend for a moment
> that there was no such thing as the "xhtml" type. Now the question is what
> is the correct way for an aggregator to display an "application/xhtml+xml"
> document. There's nothing in the spec that says an aggregator can't display
> that document inline. That's not second-guessing, that's an implementation
> choice. The fact that displaying such a document inline turns out to involve
> the same process as the "xhtml" type is irrelevant.

Assuming that the document's /html/head section is irrelevant and
discarding it, even when the publisher has specifically used non-core
types to send the full document, is second-guessing the user though.

Eg: perhaps the publisher is attempting to send a HTML document that
they saved in Word, full of CSS styles, that is intended for printing. [*]

I agree that how you display such content is just an implementation
choice, but if the publisher has specifically used a non-core type to
label content, I think it is a better choice to just treat the content
identically to any other non-core type, and probably display a
download link.

-- 
Dave




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 18:54:56 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez0fA-0001JF-OK
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:54:56 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06987
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:53:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HNlevB001701;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0HNleEv001699;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0HNldVl001687
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so1372939wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=i7leWu241kdeU3q41Y9pGKDTrusaqT78RyRYos6Jcw4DWBCSn5Sy7QWB/I71ZlI2Kdsw/O/97vSiqooFMAGkFn1VHhlslXvqy0EL1Md2Wb16bp/soLBRjeMTj7xhpyMfx9ny08fU66veOo2J+bu6cY0pXvwHNI6e9i7ELJ5Hqlw=
Received: by 10.54.115.5 with SMTP id n5mr886473wrc;
        Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 65sm7220483wra.2006.01.17.15.47.34;
        Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CD8214.7000905@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:47:32 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <17D1813A-C331-4BFA-937F-FC1574316DC8@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV18DD02FEDDBB0E04479DBCBE1A0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV18DD02FEDDBB0E04479DBCBE1A0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



James Holderness wrote:
> 
> Antone Roundy wrote:
>> I'm all for consuming applications that want to be really smart  
>> checking whether the content of <content type="application/xhtml 
>> +xml"> is a fragment or a complete document and handling either, but  
>> if your content is an xhtml document fragment, is there any reason at  
>> all to publish type="application/xhtml+xml" rather than  type="xhtml"?
> 
> First off I wouldn't recommend using XML content at all because I don't 
> think the aggregator support is very widespread yet. But if you were 

-1, bad recommendation.  Applications should feel free to use the full 
capabilities of Atom content model regardless of current feed reader 
capabilities.  If a particular use case catches on, the feed readers 
will either implement support or be replaced by ones that do.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 20:08:09 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez1o1-0004UE-QE
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:08:09 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18150
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:06:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I0vAln030357;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:10 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I0vAx7030356;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I0v9Mu030350
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:10 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1408551nzn
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:09 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=gGr6cPb3a5PpY9SXxmqjgdwYwm3OfNk1BYMh8/myi+Zb2uDXRa/TRnTTNZq8zkBeTNUwL3QMMFMjywaprzLy0grt9jU9OAnNkK5fx+Kp0PsffgtdeapPUhmz+52NQt0EUR4wOuWrmiAnkygYU2/jjUoAeXQjeT1rCouBVI6gKg0=
Received: by 10.36.77.16 with SMTP id z16mr6425683nza;
        Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:57:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601171657ia303cf4jf4318836f9a80b20@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:57:09 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Cc: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0I0vAMu030351
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


> I wouldn't either, but I wouldn't expect an Atom aggregator to fail to subscribe to such a feed,
> which is what happened to Thunderbird on my test feed [1]

Heh. Twice in one day. That's an unrelated bug.

More to the point, I can't see what you're trying to accomplish here.
You found a way to make a valid Atom feed that's useless. There are
lots of ways to do that.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 21:03:18 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez2fO-0001Fc-F0
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:03:18 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21873
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:01:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I1uvTT054229;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:56:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I1uvMJ054228;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:56:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.77])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I1uuXW054222
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:56:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:56:56 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV530FD3689EAA2787AE289BE1D0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:56:56 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <68fba5c50601171657ia303cf4jf4318836f9a80b20@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:56:52 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 01:56:56.0565 (UTC) FILETIME=[7621DA50:01C61BD2]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Robert Sayre wrote:
> Heh. Twice in one day. That's an unrelated bug.

I suspected it was probably unrelated. I tried to reproduce it with a 
simpler case and it didn't have any problems subscribing. I just didn't have 
time to experiment any more. If you want another problem to investigate, try 
subscribing to this:
http://216.93.169.119/atomtests/simple.atom

There are 2 entries in that feed, but for some reason Thunderbird only shows 
1. I can't figure out why.

> More to the point, I can't see what you're trying to accomplish here.
> You found a way to make a valid Atom feed that's useless. There are
> lots of ways to do that.

I'm not sure if you've been following this thread but earlier on it was 
asked whether it would be valid and/or safe to include an xml document 
fragment in a content element labeled with a MIME type. My hypothesis was 
that it was quite likely to work with xhtml document fragments for anyone 
that actually supported the type at all. I put together that test so I could 
see whether my hypothesis was true. Of the 15 aggregators I tested, 5 failed 
to support application/xhtml+xml at all. All the rest were quite capable of 
handling document fragments (and some in fact failed when the content wasn't 
a document fragment).

In short, I was trying to verify an hypothesis.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 17 21:47:02 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez3Li-0002Fd-Kf
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:47:02 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24930
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:45:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I2ZXj5056040;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:35:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I2ZXm2056039;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:35:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav2.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.74])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I2ZXUB056020
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:35:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:35:30 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV24BC63DB81124887093B6BE1D0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:35:30 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl> <777429115.20060117214823@djpowell.net>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:35:26 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 02:35:30.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9390870:01C61BD7]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


David Powell wrote:
> Assuming that the document's /html/head section is irrelevant and
> discarding it, even when the publisher has specifically used non-core
> types to send the full document, is second-guessing the user though.

Fair enough, but you could also say that anyone filtering out javascript and 
potentially harmful css is also second-guessing the publisher. Maybe they 
specifically wanted to annoy the user with a platypus attack or some such 
thing. If that's second-guessing then I'm all for it. What you're suggesting 
is kind of like having virus checking in your email that can be disabled by 
sending a message with a particular header.

It's always possible to add a save menu that would allow the user to save 
the full unfiltered document (along with a security warning) or an option to 
turn off security filtering for those that like living on the edge, but IMO 
the users' security should comes first. I appear to be in the minority here, 
but nobody has yet persuaded me that what I'm doing is a bad idea.

> Eg: perhaps the publisher is attempting to send a HTML document that
> they saved in Word, full of CSS styles, that is intended for printing. [*]

If you need to include a document in full and unfiltered, the most sensible 
thing to do is add an enclosure or just a simple <a href>. That's the most 
direct route you can get from yourself to the user and you don't have to 
worry about gateways that might be converting from Atom to RSS, transcoders 
converting from UTF8 to GB2312, or security-concious aggregators stripping 
your css.

> I agree that how you display such content is just an implementation
> choice, but if the publisher has specifically used a non-core type to
> label content, I think it is a better choice to just treat the content
> identically to any other non-core type, and probably display a
> download link.

Well I would display all non-core types inline if I could. I certainly 
display text/html and text/plain inline. When I get a chance I'll do the 
image/* types inline too. If possible I'd like to handle things like pdf, 
word and excel if there are plugins available. So technically I *am* 
treating the content identically to other non-core types. Displaying a 
download link would be the exception rather than the rule.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 18 00:18:08 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez5hv-0001EO-S6
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:18:08 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA04929
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:16:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I53DfF000895;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:03:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I53DwG000894;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:03:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I53CbB000888
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:03:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 730BE106E1; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:03:12 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV82574ADAE070F98E9CC8FBE1D0@phx.gbl>
References: <68fba5c50601171657ia303cf4jf4318836f9a80b20@mail.gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV530FD3689EAA2787AE289BE1D0@phx.gbl> <CA9DD4DB-78F9-4F68-B1C3-F09FC8541A59@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV82574ADAE070F98E9CC8FBE1D0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <2F28403E-7296-4ED8-8166-98C225405289@fondantfancies.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:03:07 +0000
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



On 18 Jan 2006, at 3:06 am, James Holderness wrote:

>> The problem it that proving something is "quite likely to work"  
>> says nothing about "whether it would be valid and/or safe", even  
>> in the limited context of XHTML.
>
> True, but sometimes people have to make decisions based on the  
> limited information available to them. Knowing that something is  
> "quite likely to work" is better than not knowing anything at all.

No it isn't.

> As for validity, as far as I'm concerned that isn't even in  
> question. I ran the feed through the feedvalidator and it said it  
> was valid. Granted the feedvalidator isn't always right, but my  
> reading of the spec reached the same conclusion. If you think the  
> feedvalidator is wrong, I'd suggest you file a bug report or post  
> to the feedvalidator mailing list.

Oh for fuck sake. The feed validator can only check whether something  
is syntactically correct. It cannot check whether it's semantically  
correct (ie means what you think it means). I'm sure you know this  
and are just being an asshat.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 18 00:27:06 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez5qc-0003U3-Pb
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:27:06 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05477
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:25:41 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I5JohQ006404;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:19:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I5Joi6006403;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:19:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I5Jn9h006397
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:19:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:19:49 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV4112DEA5D41334A9DBCB8BE1D0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:19:48 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <17D1813A-C331-4BFA-937F-FC1574316DC8@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV18DD02FEDDBB0E04479DBCBE1A0@phx.gbl> <43CD8214.7000905@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:19:44 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 05:19:49.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDD60700:01C61BEE]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
>> First off I wouldn't recommend using XML content at all because I don't 
>> think the aggregator support is very widespread yet. But if you were
>
> -1, bad recommendation.  Applications should feel free to use the full 
> capabilities of Atom content model regardless of current feed reader 
> capabilities.

Ok. Let me put it another way. Let's say my neighbour came to me and asked 
whether he should be using xhtml for his content type or html. Here's what I 
would tell him:

If he uses xhtml I can guarantee at least one aggregator that will not be 
able to see his content at all. If he needs to use a less than sign or 
ampersand at any point I can guarantee a further 4-13 [1] aggregators will 
have problems displaying his content.

If he uses html I can guarantee at least one aggregator will have problems 
displaying his markup, but the content will still be basically readable. If 
he needs to use a less than sign or ampersand at any point I know of only 
one other aggregator that might [1] have problems displaying that content.

He is of course welcome to choose whichever format he wants, but my 
recommendation, based on the limited testing that I've done, would be to go 
with the format least likely to cause problems. In other words I wouldn't 
reommend xhtml.

You are of course free to recommend the exact opposite to your neighbour.

Regards
James

[1] Depends on what kind of escaping his authoring tool uses.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 18 01:00:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ez6NF-0002BX-SU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:00:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07553
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:59:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I5rD7f017072;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:53:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0I5rDeg017071;
	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:53:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.77])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0I5rDVj017065
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:53:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:53:13 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV5D831D2D774DAE2E9BDE0BE1D0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.108.240 by BAY106-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:53:12 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.108.240]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <68fba5c50601171657ia303cf4jf4318836f9a80b20@mail.gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV530FD3689EAA2787AE289BE1D0@phx.gbl> <CA9DD4DB-78F9-4F68-B1C3-F09FC8541A59@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV82574ADAE070F98E9CC8FBE1D0@phx.gbl> <2F28403E-7296-4ED8-8166-98C225405289@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:53:09 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 05:53:13.0134 (UTC) FILETIME=[78069CE0:01C61BF3]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Graham Parks wrote:
>> True, but sometimes people have to make decisions based on the  limited 
>> information available to them. Knowing that something is  "quite likely 
>> to work" is better than not knowing anything at all.
>
> No it isn't.

Ok. If you like working in the dark I'm not going to try and convince you 
otherwise. I've provided what information I have for anyone that might find 
it helpful. If it's not helpful to you, feel free to ignore it.

> Oh for fuck sake. The feed validator can only check whether something  is 
> syntactically correct. It cannot check whether it's semantically  correct 
> (ie means what you think it means). I'm sure you know this  and are just 
> being an asshat.

Take a deep breath. I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, but I haven't 
the faintest idea what you are talking about anymore. I was under the 
impression that you were complaining about the use of partial xhtml 
fragments inside content labeled with type="application/xhtml+xml". The 
feedvalidator is quite capable of checking for that and in fact it does 
check for that. However it only warns you rather than reporting it as an 
error because it's considered a recommendation rather than a requirement.

If that's not it, you're going to have to be a whole lot more specific about 
this semantic error that the feedvalidator can't detect. Or you could 
continue to assume I'm being an asshat and move on to something more 
productive.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 18 07:14:58 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzCDK-0001Mu-Mw
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:14:58 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04009
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:13:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0IC5Z6N002003;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:05:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0IC5YjL002002;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:05:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0IC5Vr4001985
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:05:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.144] (helo=mx1.freenet.de)
	by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.61)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1EzC49-0007vy-Vs
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:05:30 +0100
Received: from ultra19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.109])
	by mx1.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.61 #21)
	id 1EzC49-0001Bh-P6
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:05:29 +0100
Message-ID: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:05:24 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050930)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I don't want to start yet another discussion about violating SHOULD 
level requirements but I can't think of any better way to handle the 
following situation (but hopefully you can :-):

Suppose the host www.example.com uses HTTP/1.1's server-driven content 
negotiation for its resource /img which has both image/png and 
image/svg+xml representations. Furthermore these representations can be 
accessed explicitly as /img.png and /img.svg, respectively.

Now a straight-forward way to compose an entry describing /img would be 
as follows:

<entry>
   <title>Some Example Image</title>
   <summary>A short summary of the example image</summary>
   <link rel="alternate" type="image/png"
         href="http://www.example.com/img.png" />
   <link rel="alternate" type="image/svg+xml"
         href="http://www.example.com/img.svg" />
   <content src="http://www.example.com/img" />
   <!-- author, id, updated -->
</entry>

Note, however, that a type attribute on the content element cannot be 
used since /img is a negotiated resource -- this violates the SHOULD in 
4.1.3.2.: 'If the "src" attribute is present, the "type" attribute 
SHOULD be provided [...].'

Of course one can compose an entry without a content element, simply 
listing /img among the alternate versions, but at least to me this 
feels, in the above scenario, wrong (although I cannot really put my 
finger on it):

<entry>
   <title>Some Example Image</title>
   <summary>A short summary of the example image</summary>
   <link rel="alternate"
         href="http://www.example.com/img" />
   <link rel="alternate" type="image/png"
         href="http://www.example.com/img.png" />
   <link rel="alternate" type="image/svg+xml"
         href="http://www.example.com/img.svg" />
   <!-- author, id, updated -->
</entry>

So do you have any suggestions how to best deal with a scenario like 
this? Which of the above entries is preferable?

Regards,

Andreas Sewe




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 02:17:38 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzU36-0001IJ-H9
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:17:38 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA25942
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:16:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0J6xp7A020105;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:59:51 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0J6xppY020104;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:59:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0J6xoXg020096
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:59:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [192.168.1.5] (sera-10-169-186-23.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.23])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0J6xNA13259;
	Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:59:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CF38CA.8030300@aol.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:59:22 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Macintosh/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
References: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
In-Reply-To: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Andreas Sewe wrote:

>
> I don't want to start yet another discussion about violating SHOULD 
> level requirements but I can't think of any better way to handle the 
> following situation (but hopefully you can :-):
>
> Suppose the host www.example.com uses HTTP/1.1's server-driven content 
> negotiation for its resource /img which has both image/png and 
> image/svg+xml representations. Furthermore these representations can 
> be accessed explicitly as /img.png and /img.svg, respectively.
>
> Now a straight-forward way to compose an entry describing /img would 
> be as follows:
>
> <entry>
>   <title>Some Example Image</title>
>   <summary>A short summary of the example image</summary>
>   <link rel="alternate" type="image/png"
>         href="http://www.example.com/img.png" />
>   <link rel="alternate" type="image/svg+xml"
>         href="http://www.example.com/img.svg" />
>   <content src="http://www.example.com/img" />
>   <!-- author, id, updated -->
> </entry>
>
> Note, however, that a type attribute on the content element cannot be 
> used since /img is a negotiated resource -- this violates the SHOULD 
> in 4.1.3.2.: 'If the "src" attribute is present, the "type" attribute 
> SHOULD be provided [...].'
>
I think this is a good example of why this is a SHOULD and not a MUST.  
(If Atom allowed an HTTP 1.1 media-range here instead of a MIME 
media-type you'd be set with "image/*" but it doesn't.)  In any case the 
spec explicitly tells implementors to pay attention to the server:

>If the "src" attribute is present, the "type" attribute SHOULD be
>   provided and MUST be a MIME media type [MIMEREG], rather than "text",
>   "html", or "xhtml".  The value is advisory; that is to say, when the
>   corresponding URI (mapped from an IRI, if necessary) is dereferenced,
>   if the server providing that content also provides a media type, the
>   server-provided media type is authoritative.
>
>  
>
So implementors who follow HTTP 1.1 content negotiation should be fine, 
those who don't will get whatever your default type is.  Or should.

-- 
John Panzer
Sr Technical Manager, AOL
http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 06:30:28 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzXzn-0005gz-Op
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:30:28 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13317
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:29:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JBHmNN038876;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:17:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JBHmRS038875;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:17:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JBHkTp038869
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:17:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 32EC7106E1; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:17:44 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <0439E86D-7A63-4936-AE5C-6603F462C079@fondantfancies.com>
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:17:38 +0000
To: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 18 Jan 2006, at 12:05 pm, Andreas Sewe wrote:

> Note, however, that a type attribute on the content element cannot  
> be used since /img is a negotiated resource -- this violates the  
> SHOULD in 4.1.3.2.: 'If the "src" attribute is present, the "type"  
> attribute SHOULD be provided [...].'

Note the next sentence:

"The value is advisory"

So it doesn't have to exactly describe the resource at the other end  
of the URL. The point is to give the consuming application a useful  
hint as to what kind of data is there.

> Which of the above entries is preferable?

The correct thing to do is to pick the one provided by default by the  
server when no content negotiation occurs. eg:

  <content type="image/png" href="http://www.example.com/img" />

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 06:59:43 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzYS7-0006bp-9g
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:59:43 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15079
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:58:16 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JBrAwN041551;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:53:10 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JBrA6K041550;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:53:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JBr8Kr041543
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:53:09 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net)
Received: from aamta10-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35])
          by mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060119115302.KIKY15755.mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamta10-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>;
          Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:53:02 +0000
Received: from cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com ([81.111.201.153])
          by aamta10-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20060119115302.BZAT24348.aamta10-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cpc2-stok1-5-0-cust153.bagu.cable.ntl.com>;
          Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:53:02 +0000
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:53:00 +0000
From: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.65) Professional
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <1039234116.20060119115300@djpowell.net>
To: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
CC: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
In-Reply-To: <0439E86D-7A63-4936-AE5C-6603F462C079@fondantfancies.com>
References: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0439E86D-7A63-4936-AE5C-6603F462C079@fondantfancies.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Thursday, January 19, 2006, 11:17:38 AM, Graham Parks wrote:

> The correct thing to do is to pick the one provided by default by the
> server when no content negotiation occurs. eg:

>   <content type="image/png" href="http://www.example.com/img" />

Possibly, but that solution isn't perfect. There is a tradeoff between
supplying an inaccurate type, and supplying no type at all. This TAG
finding [1] discusses the issue quite thoroughly.

[1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/mime-respect-20040225

The risk in providing an inaccurate mime-type in the content or link
elements, is that a user-agent such as a mobile device, might not
attempt to fetch the content at all if they don't support the advisory
MIME type, even though if they had requested the type, and conneg had
taken place, they could have been served a different type that they
could have handled.

-- 
Dave




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 07:26:54 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzYsQ-0005Md-0g
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:26:54 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA17041
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:25:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JCJiMW044347;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:19:44 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JCJiFf044346;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:19:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JCJg55044340
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:19:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id A9581106E1; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <1039234116.20060119115300@djpowell.net>
References: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0439E86D-7A63-4936-AE5C-6603F462C079@fondantfancies.com> <1039234116.20060119115300@djpowell.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <7930D44E-1326-41C4-A5B3-6BD7B6DC3D28@fondantfancies.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:19:36 +0000
To: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 19 Jan 2006, at 11:53 am, David Powell wrote:

> Possibly, but that solution isn't perfect. There is a tradeoff between
> supplying an inaccurate type, and supplying no type at all. This TAG
> finding [1] discusses the issue quite thoroughly.
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/mime-respect-20040225
>
> The risk in providing an inaccurate mime-type in the content or link
> elements, is that a user-agent such as a mobile device, might not
> attempt to fetch the content at all if they don't support the advisory
> MIME type, even though if they had requested the type, and conneg had
> taken place, they could have been served a different type that they
> could have handled.

If you read the W3C finding carefully, it doesn't actually cover this  
exact problem. It comes close in scenario 2 in section 2, section 4.1  
and section 5, but doesn't quite get there - all only cover when the  
advisory type is wrong outright, rather than misleading because of  
conneg.

The recommendation at the end of section 4.1 seems appropriate  
though. If the advisory type attribute is incompatible, the client  
should query the resource to double check, or at least offer the user  
the option of double checking and/or loading the resource anyway.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 12:27:56 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzdZk-0002QX-PC
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:56 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09573
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:26:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JH5m09064491;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JH5m5Y064490;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.207])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JH5md7064484
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so239766nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:48 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=dHupmS4G0lGtbFuzG5WfJzm+6sW+mwiYPwISeFtUqgjz46+254LUX0nCsLW6EQPK6soMKq9WwHjXa5kdWP6YXXs86iKkwZiajtHs82PRC93gFfrN05oZPRU/305Rdjhph+Cfo9syvbQPynYYAGueBloTGN5Wsyei3DhknxfRRt0=
Received: by 10.36.148.13 with SMTP id v13mr691139nzd;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:05:47 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>, Mark Pilgrim <pilgrim@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JH5md7064485
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


PaceAnchorSupport and PaceDifferentRelValue don't seem very useful,
and they weren't proposed by implementors. The spec is extremely
well-written and reflects existing behavior.

Can we please un-expire this:
http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html

and be done?

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 13:32:53 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezeab-0002ah-2R
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:32:53 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14402
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JICtfm069896;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:12:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JICtrv069895;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:12:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0JICqWv069835
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:12:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jan 2006 18:12:46 -0000
Received: from xdsl-81-173-169-127.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.169.127]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 19:12:46 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:13:09 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id NAA14402


* Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> [2006-01-19 18:25]:
>PaceAnchorSupport and PaceDifferentRelValue don't seem very
>useful, and they weren't proposed by implementors. The spec is
>extremely well-written and reflects existing behavior.

They=E2=80=99re trying to do something useful, but in the wrong way. Both
seem to stem from a desire to be able to link feeds other than
those which are an alternate of the page in question.

But we already have a name for doing that: it=E2=80=99s called =E2=80=9Cl=
inking
to something.=E2=80=9D Now, it=E2=80=99d be useful to encourage people to=
 add
`type` attributes to their `<a>` links, so tools could find them
just by looking at the page without spidering. But `rel` does not
add any information. The page is simply linking to another
resource. So +1 to encouraging `type`, -1 on fiddling with `rel`
at all (let alone going around changing values).

In fact, semantically, we should be encouraging people to move
things out of their `<link>`s and into `<a>`s in the page. After
all, the infrastructure for doing something useful with feeds
when a user clicks on a link in the page already exists: MIME
types and and `atom:link[@rel=3D'self']`. This infrastructure is
not well supported; true. But new autodiscovery syntax is not
going to become well supported any quicker.

>Can we please un-expire this:
>http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html
>and be done?

+1

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 15:37:04 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzgWl-0002ia-MV
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:37:04 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24798
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:35:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JJsO0g077126;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:54:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JJsOIH077125;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:54:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JJsMiT077118
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:54:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:54:34 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:54:16 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JJsOiT077119
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA24798


On 20/1/06 5:13 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:

> But we already have a name for doing that: it=B9s called =B3linking
> to something.=B2 Now, it=B9d be useful to encourage people to add
> `type` attributes to their `<a>` links, so tools could find them
> just by looking at the page without spidering. But `rel` does not
> add any information.

Here is a link to a resource:

    <link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />

Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a <atom:fe=
ed>
document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?
=20
> In fact, semantically, we should be encouraging people to move
> things out of their `<link>`s and into `<a>`s in the page.

Sounds like PaceAnchorSupport. How do you propose we do this encouragemen=
t,
if not by codifying it into a spec?

On 20/1/06 4:05 AM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
> The spec is extremely well-written and reflects existing behavior.

The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of RSS where =
the
only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287 introduces a new document
type, the Atom Entry Document, which autodiscovery-01 fails to take into
consideration. That doesn't meet my definition of "well-written".

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 15:46:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezgg9-0007Da-EF
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:46:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25582
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:45:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JK5l6J078128;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:05:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JK5lVh078127;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:05:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from server02.deinternetman.nl (hosted.by.deinternetman.nl [83.98.145.60] (may be forged))
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JK5jJh078113
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:05:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from fora@annevankesteren.nl)
Received: (qmail 10031 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 21:05:38 +0100
Received: from localhost.deinternetman.net (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost.deinternetman.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 21:05:38 +0100
Received: from pat-tdc.opera.com (pat-tdc.opera.com [213.236.208.22]) by
	webmail.annevankesteren.nl (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006
	21:05:37 +0100
Message-ID: <20060119210537.0mv89dsh25go4ccg@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:05:37 +0100
From: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=UTF-8;
	format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3)
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JK5kJh078122
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25582


Quoting Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>:
> On 20/1/06 5:13 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
>> But we already have a name for doing that: it=C2=B9s called =C2=B3link=
ing
>> to something.=C2=B2 Now, it=C2=B9d be useful to encourage people to ad=
d
>> `type` attributes to their `<a>` links, so tools could find them
>> just by looking at the page without spidering. But `rel` does not
>> add any information.
>
> Here is a link to a resource:
>
>    <link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />
>
> Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a <atom:=
feed>
> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?

Why is that relevant?


--=20
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 15:47:43 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezgh5-0007hb-ID
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:47:43 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25694
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:46:16 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKAMpS078324;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:10:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JKAMZs078323;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:10:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKAKvY078317
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:10:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:10:34 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:10:17 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF63D59.8517B%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060119210537.0mv89dsh25go4ccg@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 7:05 AM, "Anne van Kesteren" <fora@annevankesteren.nl> wrote:

>> Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a <atom:feed>
>> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?
> 
> Why is that relevant?

umm ... "autodiscovery" ???

or are you saying that links to Atom Entry Documents would/should never
appear in x/html pages?

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 15:49:04 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzgiO-0000Lk-5p
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:49:04 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25836
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:47:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKRKIB079063;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JKRKJ6079062;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKRJel079056
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so284479nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:17 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=b6tmoxzwkMDpM/ikRZtEqc6VbECIqobwJeCHS+vTPCnWyhU3psgd4UMb+JtI16pzGYCIKkmfFX4p/TzCW5LJ8/mlJiLBCxM4zI60dL0eF1MCaMJt91DJhIukPb1vz4lAhXlur3dLmZWUl7QsrpvGCaS0VW6jzAVpSoq0zbQ14Uw=
Received: by 10.36.251.34 with SMTP id y34mr829947nzh;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191227n49cd85cbp1888a32cf669624e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:27:17 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JKRJel079057
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
>
> The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of RSS where the
> only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287 introduces a new document
> type, the Atom Entry Document, which autodiscovery-01 fails to take into
> consideration. That doesn't meet my definition of "well-written".

Well, if anyone actually did that, it might be a problem. But, then
again, it might not be. You've had years to propose your definition of
"well-written". I think the current draft reflects what
implementations do pretty well. We haven't been able to come to
consensus on additional features, so I suggest we're done.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:06:19 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezgz4-0005ru-R8
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:06:19 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27164
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:04:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKvmpo081167;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JKvmqj081166;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKvmZJ081158
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so300477wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:42 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=AbBJARLxn2TyPPveltQMlWmMiRHpoeNc01jl92SBNrQhMseaLIIFmki1kCoiV9V8gc/fVaA8Fz0tacablRMcKLcQCheg6GzUgRZ7Pg+svi2DXWgiNBvwVKzBVxG1kZJ+kUFFjfBwCFHWHpRC4jNC4vFYZqDiL0HlprsGvxFUrlE=
Received: by 10.54.149.10 with SMTP id w10mr216127wrd;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 44sm1186011wri.2006.01.19.12.57.41;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43CFFD44.80102@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:57:40 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA27164



Eric Scheid wrote:
> On 20/1/06 5:13 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
>=20
>> But we already have a name for doing that: it=B9s called =B3linking
>> to something.=B2 Now, it=B9d be useful to encourage people to add
>> `type` attributes to their `<a>` links, so tools could find them
>> just by looking at the page without spidering. But `rel` does not
>> add any information.
>=20
> Here is a link to a resource:
>=20
>     <link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />
>=20
> Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a <atom:=
feed>
> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?
> =20

This is a general limitation of the media type definition, not with the=20
autodiscovery draft.  We have the same problem differentiating=20
<atom:link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />.  This isn't a=20
problem that the autodiscovery draft needs to solve.  If it's a problem,=20
solve it in the Atom format spec where the media type is defined.

> On 20/1/06 4:05 AM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The spec is extremely well-written and reflects existing behavior.
>=20
> The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of RSS wher=
e the
> only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287 introduces a new docume=
nt
> type, the Atom Entry Document, which autodiscovery-01 fails to take int=
o
> consideration. That doesn't meet my definition of "well-written".

I really don't believe this is going to be much of a problem in practice.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:09:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezh2T-00089o-L0
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:09:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27410
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:08:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JKq1eZ080725;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:52:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JKq1PG080724;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:52:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0JKq0A7080707
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:52:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jan 2006 20:51:53 -0000
Received: from xdsl-81-173-169-127.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.169.127]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 21:51:53 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:52:14 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum> <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA27410


Hi Eric,

* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-19 21:10]:
>Here is a link to a resource:
>
>    <link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />
>
>Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a
><atom:feed> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?

this is an excellent point. How does either Pace address it?

>> In fact, semantically, we should be encouraging people to move
>> things out of their `<link>`s and into `<a>`s in the page.
>
>Sounds like PaceAnchorSupport. How do you propose we do this
>encouragement, if not by codifying it into a spec?

PaceAnchorSupport merely promotes `<a>` to parity with `<link>`,
for which the I-D says a `rel` attribute consisting of at least
`alternate` is required.

But I don=E2=80=99t see how =E2=80=9Cthis is a feed I want to link to=E2=80=
=9D implies a
different relationship with the linking page than =E2=80=9Cthis is some
resource I want to link to.=E2=80=9D The mere fact that the linked
resource is a feed (or entry document) does not constitute a
relationship with the linking page in and of itself; and that
makes `rel` the wrong place to shoehorn this information into.

So no, encouraging people to add advisory `type` information to
their links is not equivalent to PaceAnchorSupport.

In any case, the important part is that when someone clicks the
link in a browser, the right things happen. For that, the `type`
is not even necessary, so long as the feed is served with the
correct MIME type and contains a self-link. The type makes some
harvesting easier, but ultimately, it=E2=80=99s not *necessary*.

We=E2=80=99re trying to shoehorn this functionality in with autodiscovery
right now because as of yet, the right things do not happen, even
though they *could*, whereas something closer to the right things
does happen when autodiscovery links are added willy-nilly.

>The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of
>RSS where the only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287
>introduces a new document type, the Atom Entry Document, which
>autodiscovery-01 fails to take into consideration. That doesn't
>meet my definition of "well-written".

I don=E2=80=99t know how that is relevant. I am trying to think of a
scenario where I=E2=80=99d want to autodiscover an entry document (as
opposed to simply linking to it) and the inability to distinguish
between feed and entry documents is causing a problem, but I
can=E2=80=99t come up with anything. Can you provide an example?

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:23:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzhFz-0002g4-Fm
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:23:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28171
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:22:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JL95fb082709;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:09:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JL95lU082708;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:09:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JL94xv082701
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:09:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so309220wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:09:00 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=HDPom+ChwB0xoZwww+tYc5QsYJORpS2sjuW1Q86I0fiH3WVS/T5JusxEYdlMwWO36UT0uUg+EtdkItO+UzwMBxxwwHD6wsIqA11fGX/5K08MIsYqL3HWuUK06J5zF2B8Eb/HTbfehVSwnLs/iesgDVmXuREgFWa1wr5TzTiMQK4=
Received: by 10.65.122.5 with SMTP id z5mr691076qbm;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:08:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.65.83.11 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:08:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:08:59 -0500
From: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JL94xv082703
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
> The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of RSS where the
> only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287 introduces a new document
> type, the Atom Entry Document, which autodiscovery-01 fails to take into
> consideration. That doesn't meet my definition of "well-written".

"""
The purpose of Atom autodiscovery is for clients who know the URI of a
web page to find the location of that page's associated Atom feed.
"""

Not an entry but a feed. The autodiscovery is unambiguous on what such
a link points to. Now to match RFC 4287 that 'feed' ought to
be 'Feed', but that is a rather minor change.

   -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:39:08 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzhUp-0001nE-Os
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:39:08 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28994
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:37:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLH1Ck083160;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:17:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JLH14m083159;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:17:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.197])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLH0xG083153
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:17:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from philringnalda@gmail.com)
Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k3so10267ugf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:16:59 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=PLaBXDCL0l2Uym/gHbmZULFBhtFjVIVIPi0wP2l1YmcepFZ+iPpFgIxX4r4a7VyY0BjfN7/NW56p+lB0yyxEtc1/T/7psJjStvK+cOXc8zRi+ev3MNmLRcflOw77lKdUfazStz1rwQUMvW3bNhenDAW6NsxODvGvU9vFUohrp+Q=
Received: by 10.48.225.3 with SMTP id x3mr83424nfg;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.48.232.19 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:16:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:16:59 -0800
From: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
In-Reply-To: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JLH1xG083154
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, A. Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
> >The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of
> >RSS where the only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287
> >introduces a new document type, the Atom Entry Document, which
> >autodiscovery-01 fails to take into consideration. That doesn't
> >meet my definition of "well-written".
>
> I don't know how that is relevant. I am trying to think of a
> scenario where I'd want to autodiscover an entry document (as
> opposed to simply linking to it) and the inability to distinguish
> between feed and entry documents is causing a problem, but I
> can't come up with anything. Can you provide an example?

I have a weblog post. I would like aggregators to discover both the
feed for comments (rel="alternate feed") and the feed for my weblog
(rel="feed"), but I would like search engines and hypothetical
Atom-aware browsers and Piggybank-style history miners to discover the
Atom Entry document, where they can find just the entry for one-time
fetching with no question about what they are getting
(rel="alternate").

Of course, if we spec only things which include "feed" in the rel
value as being appropriate for aggregators, and all others as not, we
still would need to wait three or four years for existing use of
"alternate" alone to die down before any aggregator developer would
consider following along and ignoring non-"feed"s.

Phil Ringnalda




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:48:06 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzhdW-0003MJ-NJ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:48:06 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29655
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:46:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLV4ZX083921;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JLV4IB083920;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLV3eG083914
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so297531nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:03 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=HmTEJ+qBSuRKPwUbBEGwrAAzRGqFHOHtzh1GqzGddlAongSCtgIf+e7qqlOfPT3x4qfMFnkj0Bmu7N+lMTP7jYoqGkrtTHajx5L+Ke9fZqPguJk7PuSoQJS0loPVWZqTpm/9ZWHiN3Tb+dhxoSKcIkxj6WqEd6WXThxWiuYLg+8=
Received: by 10.37.2.79 with SMTP id e79mr875160nzi;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:31:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191331t201f09d7xd976ab4aaf011e26@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:31:03 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
	 <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JLV4eG083915
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Of course, if we spec only things which include "feed" in the rel
> value as being appropriate for aggregators, and all others as not, we
> still would need to wait three or four years for existing use of
> "alternate" alone to die down before any aggregator developer would
> consider following along and ignoring non-"feed"s.

First person to need the feature has to spec "alternate entry" instead
of making everyone change to "alternate feed". Not it!

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 16:52:27 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezhhj-0005Kq-2l
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:52:27 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00103
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:50:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLbTWL084470;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JLbTxs084469;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLbTEY084461
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so314596wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:22 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=pcOM6enuLqfp5sOkdvcKsCD8rLCQ9ydUbjWKE0DknUXs86FrQfJdWpkVMZgBdtvgKdTyeUepmDdEVCKIS3wfYBAJ790QlGIo6MRIFPLCgX65u7BSxB9f1CaqVep1+X3/NNLFuAa6SPMTMFWEGOyTJ3ajZYVFc2S2aCAkJ4UCgmQ=
Received: by 10.65.11.3 with SMTP id o3mr891287qbi;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id z21sm885240qbc.2006.01.19.13.37.20;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D0068F.40606@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:37:19 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum> <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Why wouldn't this work?

rel="alternate feed"
rel="alternate entry"
rel="alternate replies"  (see [1])

[1]http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-feed-thread-03.txt

Phil Ringnalda wrote:
> On 1/19/06, A. Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> The existing behaviour is based on the various incarnations of
>>> RSS where the only document type involved are feeds. RFC 4287
>>> introduces a new document type, the Atom Entry Document, which
>>> autodiscovery-01 fails to take into consideration. That doesn't
>>> meet my definition of "well-written".
>> I don't know how that is relevant. I am trying to think of a
>> scenario where I'd want to autodiscover an entry document (as
>> opposed to simply linking to it) and the inability to distinguish
>> between feed and entry documents is causing a problem, but I
>> can't come up with anything. Can you provide an example?
> 
> I have a weblog post. I would like aggregators to discover both the
> feed for comments (rel="alternate feed") and the feed for my weblog
> (rel="feed"), but I would like search engines and hypothetical
> Atom-aware browsers and Piggybank-style history miners to discover the
> Atom Entry document, where they can find just the entry for one-time
> fetching with no question about what they are getting
> (rel="alternate").
> 
> Of course, if we spec only things which include "feed" in the rel
> value as being appropriate for aggregators, and all others as not, we
> still would need to wait three or four years for existing use of
> "alternate" alone to die down before any aggregator developer would
> consider following along and ignoring non-"feed"s.
> 
> Phil Ringnalda
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 17:12:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezi1A-0005Oq-4Q
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:32 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02079
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:11:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JM1xHu087019;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:59 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JM1xj3087018;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JM1v5h087007
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:02:13 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:01:56 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JM1w5h087012
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id RAA02079


On 20/1/06 7:52 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:

>> Here is a link to a resource:
>>=20
>>    <link type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"..." />
>>=20
>> Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a
>> <atom:feed> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?
>=20
> this is an excellent point. How does either Pace address it?

PaceDifferentRelValue addresses this. It suggests using "feed" as an @rel
value to indicate the referenced resource is a feed (ie. is not an entry
doc) which can be subscribed to. It doesn't rule out continuing to use
"alternate" for those cases where the feed is actually an alternate to th=
e
current document.

> I am trying to think of a scenario where I=B9d want to autodiscover an =
entry
> document (as opposed to simply linking to it) and the inability to dist=
inguish
> between feed and entry documents is causing a problem, but I can=B9t co=
me up
> with anything. Can you provide an example?

I'm not talking about autodiscovery of entry documents. I'm talking about
autodiscovery of feeds, which (and this is the point) is *different* from
autodiscovery of resources with the mime type of "application/atom+xml".

Apart from Atom Entry Documents, there are also "application/ref+xml"
documents ... and not all of those are RSS 1.0 feeds.

Using "feed" solves the problem for both cases (atom entry and rdf+xml), =
and
potentially any similar problems (eg newsml+xml?).

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 17:12:33 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezi1B-0005P8-TM
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02082
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:11:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JM1nQQ086980;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JM1nbA086979;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JM1m3I086969
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:01:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:02:00 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:01:43 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF65777.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <43CFFD44.80102@gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 7:57 AM, "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Here is a link to a resource:
>> 
>>     <link type="application/atom+xml" href="..." />
>> 
>> Please explain how a tool can decide whether that is a link to a <atom:feed>
>> document, or is a link to an <atom:entry> document?
>>  
> 
> This is a general limitation of the media type definition, not with the
> autodiscovery draft.  We have the same problem differentiating
> <atom:link type="application/atom+xml" href="..." />.  This isn't a
> problem that the autodiscovery draft needs to solve.  If it's a problem,
> solve it in the Atom format spec where the media type is defined.

Too late. It would have been nice to have "application/atomentry+xml"

Also, fixing it in the atom format spec doesn't fix the exact same problem
autodiscovery has with "application/rdf+xml".

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 17:14:05 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezi2f-0006SI-6E
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:14:05 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02241
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLqLYw085689;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JLqLxu085688;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JLqKqQ085675
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so317346wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:17 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=HRbfySAtBuRAHGk2hlZJ6SE0ayhiJqz5s2j+OfSUdBptHfR7tTxiFTi/xikRXfx/HLytxabAEccIyJlzNlYPploe8a7jyRpb8uRDUYDs86V5mpE1iBQyoI1/WePurNz9ziKHsYpzh7u6mdLTm51jSco/FJt8xu1Mmjqr3Frk3AY=
Received: by 10.65.194.8 with SMTP id w8mr980591qbp;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.65.83.11 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50601191352x38f9c897m24c91a79263a30cc@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:52:17 -0500
From: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <43D0068F.40606@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
	 <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43D0068F.40606@gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JLqLqQ085683
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why wouldn't this work?
>
> rel="alternate feed"
> rel="alternate entry"
> rel="alternate replies"  (see [1])

Because rel is a space separated list of link types:

  http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rel

I.e. the values are all orthogonal.

   -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 17:25:42 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EziDt-0001es-QE
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:25:42 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03242
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JMBXoO088406;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JMBXB2088405;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.196])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JMBV8r088384
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so305584nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:31 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=G8v83Trtc1hwTGFBasF7zb3GmeIJNYhXbTdcocb9hX9+4gGBpCOEKrxEdB/o6KLaG1ZwwymnXS1CwmNV3tc0/vkqWKDz/DpDwJmQQk2wHZQ2FQ0Nla/ZPE8wVDQ1Df+0HT9kM9WdN6BPNAFyMoVSPJe+RG/Apt271vokKOBlmnA=
Received: by 10.36.250.64 with SMTP id x64mr920318nzh;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:11:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191411w6b063714rb4056ae73b14cd3a@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:11:31 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0JMBW8r088395
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
>
> PaceDifferentRelValue addresses this. It suggests using "feed" as an @rel
> value to indicate the referenced resource is a feed (ie. is not an entry
> doc) which can be subscribed to.

The spec already does this without a new rel value.

> It doesn't rule out continuing to use
> "alternate" for those cases where the feed is actually an alternate to the
> current document.

I am lie-down-in-the-road opposed to PaceDifferentRelValue.
Interesting idea. I suggest someone write a DifferentSpec.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 18:25:11 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezj9T-0001zU-OA
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:25:11 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07252
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:23:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JNAQKF092362;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:10:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JNAQYD092361;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:10:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0JNAOje092354
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:10:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jan 2006 23:10:18 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-250-154.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.250.154]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp037) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2006 00:10:18 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:10:40 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060119231040.GN5512@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum> <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum> <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id SAA07252


* Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com> [2006-01-19 22:30]:
>> I am trying to think of a scenario where I'd want to
>> autodiscover an entry document (as opposed to simply linking
>> to it) and the inability to distinguish between feed and entry
>> documents is causing a problem, but I can't come up with
>> anything. Can you provide an example?
>
>I have a weblog post. I would like aggregators to discover both
>the feed for comments (rel=3D"alternate feed") and the feed for my
>weblog (rel=3D"feed"),

Is `feed` a relationship of the page with the feed? Is there a
reason `<a type=3D"application/atom+xml">` wouldn=E2=80=99t suffice?

>but I would like search engines and hypothetical Atom-aware
>browsers and Piggybank-style history miners to discover the Atom
>Entry document, where they can find just the entry for one-time
>fetching with no question about what they are getting
>(rel=3D"alternate").

Okay, so you have two alternates: one with comments, one without.
That would be `rel=3D"alternate"` in both cases, with
`title=3D"Entry"` in one of them and `title=3D"Entry with comments"`
in the other.

This is semantically weak, I know.

But I don=E2=80=99t see how it can be strengthened. It merely appears to
be expressible more precisely because we=E2=80=99re sticking to the
weblog use case.

What about feeds for a page on a wiki? Say you have one entry
document which contains the latest version of the page at the
time of retrieval, one feed which lists the history of major
edits, one which lists major+minor edits, and let=E2=80=99s say it=E2=80=99=
s one
of those newfangled wikis where you can leave comments on a page
separately from the page content, so you have a feed for that as
well. How do you tell those apart?

Then someone comes around and does this on his site:
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-atomwas/

And then someone else does something else.

And someone else still uses Atom in yet another clever way.

It=E2=80=99s just impossible to specify enough precise semantics to cover
everyone=E2=80=99s use cases, and no single app will ever understand all
of these disparate semantics. The problem seems simple while you
look at it with blog-coloured glasses because that is such a
small and well-understood niche of the problem space.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 18:48:14 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzjVm-0001aA-Fr
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:48:14 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08997
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:46:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0JNWCn5093071;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:32:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0JNWCKq093070;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:32:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0JNWA59093064
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:32:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jan 2006 23:32:05 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-250-154.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.250.154]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2006 00:32:05 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:32:28 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060119233228.GO5512@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum> <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id SAA08997


* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-19 23:10]:
>PaceDifferentRelValue addresses this. It suggests using "feed"
>as an @rel value to indicate the referenced resource is a feed
>(ie. is not an entry doc) which can be subscribed to. It doesn't
>rule out continuing to use "alternate" for those cases where the
>feed is actually an alternate to the current document.

Quibbling about the assumption that noone would ever want to
subscribe to an entry document aside, I guess I can see the
point. But `rel` is not the place for that. I don=E2=80=99t think we *do*
have a place for it.

What you really want is to express that the linked resource
adheres to a certain profile. (Hm, what happened to James Snell=E2=80=99s
profile extension?)

People could be as precise as they care to be, and bots and user
agents could support whichever profiles they cared to. You avoid
requiring full buy-in from everyone in order to make something
useful even though it=E2=80=99s as vague as =E2=80=9Cfeed.=E2=80=9D

Of course, this requires a mythical hook in HTML to hang the
profile information off of=E2=80=A6

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 19:46:40 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkQK-0001Ug-GK
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:46:40 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16105
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:45:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0ZI1f097133;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0ZIrq097132;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0ZIwB097126
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so343297wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:17 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=s8BPnPNWgFHeO+Wxxuwa91HSoeiZQs1G43VcF84CyCX1i3KLB4ypW45FEuWsr/JTLPWAWgPzgdTxA2M8tU8ALeX+3RqpNHE1T3bn+XYgaOUuzUqlvgU1PgIVDaem8wF8HWPBkhua/XTpBAzGDR3GlrVixmPBLBNAivBYJ1G8SCE=
Received: by 10.54.93.20 with SMTP id q20mr1586914wrb;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g7sm1302319wra.2006.01.19.16.35.15;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D0303F.8070707@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:35:11 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum> <BFF65784.851BC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <20060119233228.GO5512@klangraum>
In-Reply-To: <20060119233228.GO5512@klangraum>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id TAA16105



A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> (Hm, what happened to James Snell=E2=80=99s profile extension?)

In progress. I decided to hold off in favor of a few other higher=20
priority items.  Expect a draft on this either later this month or next.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 19:50:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkU6-0001ic-Ja
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:50:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16284
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:49:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0h0RR097391;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0h0kO097390;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0gxwS097381
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:15 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:42:57 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 8:08 AM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:

> """
> The purpose of Atom autodiscovery is for clients who know the URI of a
> web page to find the location of that page's associated Atom feed.
> """
> 
> Not an entry but a feed. The autodiscovery is unambiguous on what such
> a link points to.

Unambiguous? The autodiscovery spec does not outlaw using
link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate] for linking to atom entry
documents. It only says that such links may be used to find Atom Feed
Documents. This is a subtle nuance.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 19:50:50 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkUM-0001o3-0d
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:50:50 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16332
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:49:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0gPBw097364;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:42:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0gPs8097363;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:42:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0gNtm097357
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:42:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:42:38 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:42:20 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF67D1C.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060119231040.GN5512@klangraum>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K0gOtm097358
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id TAA16332


On 20/1/06 10:10 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:

> Okay, so you have two alternates: one with comments, one without.
> That would be `rel=3D"alternate"` in both cases, with
> `title=3D"Entry"` in one of them and `title=3D"Entry with comments"`
> in the other.
>=20
> This is semantically weak, I know.

@rel contains tokens, @title contains human language content.

Would @title=3D"Entrada com coment=E1rios" also be acceptable? How about
@title=3D"Entrata con le osservazioni" or @title=3D"Entr=E9e avec des
commentaires" or @title=3D"Entrada con comentarios" or @title=3D"Eintragu=
ng mit
Anmerkungen"? No. This is no basis for auto-whatever.

No matter what the @lang might be, the @rel would still contain the same
token for each of those possible @title links. It's just English Language
Imperialism why it happens to be "alternate entry", it could just as easi=
ly
be specced to be "FooBarBaz" or "3576.24352.987".

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 19:50:55 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkUR-0001s9-LR
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:50:55 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16341
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:49:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0h8vq097404;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0h8oc097403;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0h7tC097396
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:43:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:23 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:04 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF67D48.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <20060119231040.GN5512@klangraum>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K0h8tC097398
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id TAA16341


On 20/1/06 10:10 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:

> And someone else still uses Atom in yet another clever way.

Which is precisely why link[@rel=3D"alternate",@type=3D"atom+xml"] is an
*ambiguous* way of discovering atom Feeds ...

> It=B9s just impossible to specify enough precise semantics to cover
> everyone=B9s use cases, and no single app will ever understand all
> of these disparate semantics.

Strawman. I'm not suggesting we pre-define all these other cases. I'm
suggesting we define this one case (here is a feed document related to th=
is
page) in a manner which distinguishes it from other [undefined] cases.

> The problem seems simple while you
> look at it with blog-coloured glasses because that is such a
> small and well-understood niche of the problem space.

Be careful what you assume. I'm thinking of using atom entry documents fo=
r
many non-blog related purposes, and this is what is driving my interest i=
n
disambiguating feed autodiscovery.

e.





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 19:53:16 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkWi-0002r6-3Z
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:53:16 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16629
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:51:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0fgds097335;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:41:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0fgRn097334;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:41:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0fefH097310
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:41:41 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:41:26 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:41:08 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF67CD4.8526B%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191352x38f9c897m24c91a79263a30cc@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 8:52 AM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Why wouldn't this work?
>> 
>> rel="alternate feed"
>> rel="alternate entry"
>> rel="alternate replies"  (see [1])
> 
> Because rel is a space separated list of link types:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rel
> 
> I.e. the values are all orthogonal.

Yes, but that would mean that it *would* work, not that it *wouldn't*. Being
orthogonal means that those three links are equivalent to these six links

>> rel="alternate" href="1"
>> rel="alternate" href="2"
>> rel="alternate" href="3"
>> rel="feed"      href="1"
>> rel="entry"     href="2"
>> rel="replies"   href="3"

Which is exactly what was intended.


e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:05:16 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkiK-0008QJ-5t
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:05:16 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17277
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:03:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0rCpc098277;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K0rBKj098276;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.192])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K0rA2u098270
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from philringnalda@gmail.com)
Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k3so70137ugf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:10 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=ZS0A0iKdSOTpD6wAS8YbXgl7QP8y1E035jfJ1UWA7FBqFKJ37ZDID1An2mVbZJUHApprw8co1VVZpdGY0SDSC5i5+n01Za13pvtIzREoHpCCVNjn3oUhZz3TZaPfoJkp5iSP9Uhj/JHvf5aqVuEKGbjtBnrfHONaYhoYwqss1A4=
Received: by 10.49.39.19 with SMTP id r19mr99171nfj;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.48.232.19 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <9547bc9c0601191653y40b2987cj8187f639db28c262@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:53:09 -0800
From: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191352x38f9c897m24c91a79263a30cc@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
	 <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43D0068F.40606@gmail.com>
	 <3f1451f50601191352x38f9c897m24c91a79263a30cc@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K0rB2u098271
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because rel is a space separated list of link types:
>
>   http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rel
> https://mail.google.com/mail/
> I.e. the values are all orthogonal.

Though at this point in this discussion, someone is always duty-bound
to point out that the only use of <link> that HTML actually specifies,
for stylesheets, treats them as not orthogonal ("alternate stylesheet"
is not "alternate" and a "stylesheet", it's an
"alternate-stylesheet"), and further assigns meaning to the presence
(though not, exactly, the content) of a title attribute.

Phil Ringnalda




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:14:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzkrJ-0001r9-Um
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:14:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17973
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:13:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K11hrw098882;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:01:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K11hX2098881;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:01:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K11fQf098874
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:01:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:01:57 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:01:39 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF681A3.8528D%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601191331t201f09d7xd976ab4aaf011e26@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 8:31 AM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:

> First person to need the feature has to spec "alternate entry" instead
> of making everyone change to "alternate feed".

How is speccing "alternate entry" helpful?

That would *still* be considered an autodiscovery link to a "feed",
according the current autodiscovery spec. That's the problem right there.

The spec should allow for the creation of other specs without land-grabbing
the non-specific "alternate" @rel value.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:23:40 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezl08-0007N9-QI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:23:40 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18730
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:22:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1CjPo099616;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K1CjpV099615;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1CiNo099609
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:44 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so332548nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:44 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=Q6k6W8lly63X7/YALgoVtJ4bk7JssLFtCYyCAA6LD6tCPZbK/56iENCcckxDJtc5mb5erSydjmjrxGXMP/ZcGK6RiU+Jr/5jUF4LEIpn5I/8FoRShOLnnruFAWXN/aqS5In+08S/iIujmsBP9qXrUu7EbgB+8/Q1Lpm37x+ug/U=
Received: by 10.36.127.4 with SMTP id z4mr1012282nzc;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:12:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191712p44aaf927s4aa39cece175b32b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:12:44 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF681A3.8528D%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601191331t201f09d7xd976ab4aaf011e26@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFF681A3.8528D%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K1CiNo099610
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
> That would *still* be considered an autodiscovery link to a "feed",
> according the current autodiscovery spec. That's the problem right there.

It's not a "problem". It works now, and no one is going to run out and
change the running code. If someone did do "alternate entry", I can
see implementations getting patches to ignore those. In fact, you
don't even need a spec to help. Just start doing it. If it becomes
common, there will be patches.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:32:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezl8v-0000ZH-5m
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:32:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19412
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:31:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1QBq5000550;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K1QBeW000549;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1QBvR000543
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so343412wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:11 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=Avfy1fFha2cK4WWmphn6RpzGJOI1syk4kteAb3jvXRF/fkjF02FwPLXQwi5DUPeFBFEVwOQAZf5tgWAYdi+bAX1wo84mGb74kRIQ/Urq+VKIHC9fDdws5+9jHeqCyEh83q47798gRQLJ5saYsaQWphUleBSFjVlVB17HejLjjtQ=
Received: by 10.54.104.14 with SMTP id b14mr3229247wrc;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 33sm2053272wra.2006.01.19.17.26.08;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D03C24.7040309@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:25:56 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <BFF67CD4.8526B%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BFF67CD4.8526B%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Eric Scheid wrote:
> Yes, but that would mean that it *would* work, not that it *wouldn't*. Being
> orthogonal means that those three links are equivalent to these six links
> 
>>> rel="alternate" href="1"
>>> rel="alternate" href="2"
>>> rel="alternate" href="3"
>>> rel="feed"      href="1"
>>> rel="entry"     href="2"
>>> rel="replies"   href="3"
> 
> Which is exactly what was intended.
> 

Yep. Specifying them as separate tokens provides backwards compatibility 
(with clients that are actually implemented properly) and better 
semantics.  Folks that rely just on the "alternate" mechanism won't be 
any worse off than they are currently.  Folks that want the clearer and 
specific semantics would look for "feed", "entry", "replies"

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:34:06 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzlAE-0000vW-Fj
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:34:06 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19513
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:32:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1TJ9f000978;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K1TJDB000977;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1TIvw000970
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so350517wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:18 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=qhwfDfa0bNl6X2Lp/zpEq31Kop1ggsRiit+QGYC9ygJpsGwiv5S+g9Cedv4b6Rr2jAmZO6zHdPYJDI/5QoZ+qrwTCjxldcsTjKBYfcQ+eZnveO4L7ddzkqJ+zLWlEHzjS9bAb0ICYVM6EPbuJ1wpwIQihmP87gP4c8xD4UyBbbs=
Received: by 10.65.116.16 with SMTP id t16mr1123038qbm;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.65.83.11 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:17 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50601191729t2518daces9fe820a6b32d75a1@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:29:17 -0500
From: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K1TIvw000972
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
>
> On 20/1/06 8:08 AM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > """
> > The purpose of Atom autodiscovery is for clients who know the URI of a
> > web page to find the location of that page's associated Atom feed.
> > """
> >
> > Not an entry but a feed. The autodiscovery is unambiguous on what such
> > a link points to.
>
> Unambiguous? The autodiscovery spec does not outlaw using
> link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate] for linking to atom entry
> documents. It only says that such links may be used to find Atom Feed
> Documents. This is a subtle nuance.

That is not a subtle nuance but an incorrect interpretation. By that
same logic it does not outlaw using
link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate] to point to
an RSS feed, or a PNG.

The autodiscovery spec would be the only RFC that defines
the behaviour of link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate],
and the verbage in the autodiscovery spec is unambiguous
about that fact that it is talking about feeds and not entries.

   -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 20:39:48 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzlFk-0003zx-SU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:39:48 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19907
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:38:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1WYDK001178;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K1WYPM001177;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K1WXhN001170
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so350906wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:33 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=qlwwjoj5iW88gWSlDYyPLVpg9sD3pi441K/tmlhNjt8SJYCq9OYI2NPFy7fZzzV//YfFGT8p8l+WlW5/N6SqQIqrU8hSHABvZUSKjDEQId81ygLQdjDHm9rmOMOtthhMugn8nGmq56j5A0kYGaEaG+hw+oyS+FfEtmWGIaCwxZk=
Received: by 10.65.249.2 with SMTP id b2mr1137178qbs;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.65.83.11 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50601191732r74032692xaea452ea1078c11f@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:32:33 -0500
From: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
To: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <9547bc9c0601191653y40b2987cj8187f639db28c262@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20060119181309.GJ5512@klangraum>
	 <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <20060119205214.GM5512@klangraum>
	 <9547bc9c0601191316u68e53e35k728f6a4e37a74db9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43D0068F.40606@gmail.com>
	 <3f1451f50601191352x38f9c897m24c91a79263a30cc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <9547bc9c0601191653y40b2987cj8187f639db28c262@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K1WXhN001171
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/19/06, Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Because rel is a space separated list of link types:
> >
> >   http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-rel
> > https://mail.google.com/mail/
> > I.e. the values are all orthogonal.
>
> Though at this point in this discussion, someone is always duty-bound
> to point out that the only use of <link> that HTML actually specifies,
> for stylesheets, treats them as not orthogonal ("alternate stylesheet"
> is not "alternate" and a "stylesheet", it's an
> "alternate-stylesheet"), and further assigns meaning to the presence
> (though not, exactly, the content) of a title attribute.

Marvelous.

Are you suggesting we promulgate that behaviour in
the face of autodiscovery for RSS that already uses
"alternate"?

    -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 21:32:14 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezm4U-0006PO-0V
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:32:14 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24845
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:30:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2OUrs006368;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:24:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2OURW006367;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:24:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2OSj7006360
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:24:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:24:42 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:24:24 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF69508.852C4%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601191712p44aaf927s4aa39cece175b32b@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 12:12 PM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's not a "problem". It works now, and no one is going to run out and
> change the running code. If someone did do "alternate entry", I can
> see implementations getting patches to ignore those.

and patches for "alternate replies", and patches for "alternate
something-else", and patches for "alternate blah" and patches for "alternate
[anything but blank space]".

Yep, that's the smart way to write a spec. Write it such that
implementations need to patch around it's shortcomings. And of course these
use cases for patches won't be documented anywhere, and different
implementers will do different patches. Didn't we already go through this
with the bugs and ambiguities in the html spec?

> In fact, you don't even need a spec to help. Just start doing it. If it
> becomes common, there will be patches.

Why not just spec it properly now? We know this is a possibility, we know
that keying off "alternate" is casting too wide a net. This change is
backwards compatible, so why the resistance?

Anybody would think that wide deployment is an argument against making
things better. If so we'd all be doing stuff using gopher, not http; or
using html 1.0 not xhtml.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 21:44:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzmFz-0001CV-Qg
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:44:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25603
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:42:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2bNBr006797;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2bNWd006796;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2bMXZ006790
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so342621nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:22 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=X9a0oMZxEXAlcWS5ojJn2NJOOecoq21xP9sDCWp1NA6+UysXepOhX+G8cnhNQ98c2ThwxGD9eo6tUoOMVb+brRYkcTcOIcfVogzc9tpIK6HC+rI9+Bg7J2q77p30nywLY1YfBXsQvATTb6Sdet4hKULWVG8Hsvhx+Y37gxqp9sI=
Received: by 10.37.20.30 with SMTP id x30mr1081527nzi;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191837i4030a16doa8e17040869b9913@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:37:21 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <BFF69508.852C4%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601191712p44aaf927s4aa39cece175b32b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFF69508.852C4%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K2bMXZ006791
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
>
> On 20/1/06 12:12 PM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's not a "problem". It works now, and no one is going to run out and
> > change the running code. If someone did do "alternate entry", I can
> > see implementations getting patches to ignore those.
>
> and patches for "alternate replies", and patches for "alternate
> something-else", and patches for "alternate blah" and patches for "alternate
> [anything but blank space]".

Those probably aren't all alternates.

> Yep, that's the smart way to write a spec.

I think it is. I would be willing to change my mind if a browser
implementor agrees with you.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 21:48:36 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzmKK-00035J-CI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:48:36 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25870
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:47:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2hHe7007201;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:43:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2hHht007200;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:43:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2hFoi007194
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:43:16 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:43:31 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:43:13 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF69971.852C9%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191732r74032692xaea452ea1078c11f@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 12:32 PM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/19/06, Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Though at this point in this discussion, someone is always duty-bound
>> to point out that the only use of <link> that HTML actually specifies,
>> for stylesheets, treats them as not orthogonal ("alternate stylesheet"
>> is not "alternate" and a "stylesheet", it's an
>> "alternate-stylesheet"), and further assigns meaning to the presence
>> (though not, exactly, the content) of a title attribute.
> 
> Marvelous.

Yeah, awful.

> Are you suggesting we promulgate that behaviour in
> the face of autodiscovery for RSS that already uses
> "alternate"?

Speaking for myself, quite the opposite.

Robert Sayre is the only one so far suggesting that @rel="alternate entry"
should be treated as excluding the semantic of @rel="alternate". Which is
surprising: I would have bet he would consider the "alternate stylesheet"
thing an abomination.

I'm suggesting that if we want to link to a resource which is considered to
be a feed for the current document we use "feed". If we want to link to a
resource which is considered to be an alternate representation of the
current document we use "alternate". If the resource is considered to be
both, then the x/html spec allows both relationships to be expressed in the
one <link> as a space separated list.

Specifying "feed" does not rule out using "alternate feed" for backwards
incompatibility purposes, except to those implementations that can't cope
with more than one value in @rel, and according to the autodisco 1.0 spec
they are broken anyways so I have no compassion for them.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 21:50:33 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzmMD-0003gd-Ia
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:50:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25985
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:49:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2e4cg007007;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:40:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2e4GO007006;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:40:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2e3gA006969
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:40:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from JOHNPANZER.ad.aol.aoltw.net (h-10-169-155-222.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.155.222])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0K2daa20056;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:39:37 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:39:36 -0800
From: "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
To: "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
cc: "Eric Scheid" <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>,
        "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191729t2518daces9fe820a6b32d75a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D04D68.7000602@aol.net>
References: <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com>  <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <3f1451f50601191729t2518daces9fe820a6b32d75a1@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: AOL Communicator (20030919.3 Win)
Organization: AOL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>




Joe Gregorio wrote on 1/19/2006, 5:29 PM:

 >
 > On 1/19/06, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:
 > >
 > > On 20/1/06 8:08 AM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:
 > >
 > > > """
 > > > The purpose of Atom autodiscovery is for clients who know the URI
 > of a
 > > > web page to find the location of that page's associated Atom feed.
 > > > """
 > > >
 > > > Not an entry but a feed. The autodiscovery is unambiguous on what
 > such
 > > > a link points to.
 > >
 > > Unambiguous? The autodiscovery spec does not outlaw using
 > > link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate] for linking to atom
 > entry
 > > documents. It only says that such links may be used to find Atom Feed
 > > Documents. This is a subtle nuance.
 >
 > That is not a subtle nuance but an incorrect interpretation. By that
 > same logic it does not outlaw using
 > link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate] to point to
 > an RSS feed, or a PNG.
 >
 > The autodiscovery spec would be the only RFC that defines
 > the behaviour of link[@type=application/atom+xml,@rel=alternate],
 > and the verbage in the autodiscovery spec is unambiguous
 > about that fact that it is talking about feeds and not entries.
 >

What autodiscovery links should I do on a web page that displays a 
single blog entry, like this one?

http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer/entries/1238

It's not unreasonable to link to the overall feed for the entire blog 
from this page, but it's a bit unreasonable to say that the feed is an 
'alternate' for the current page -- it's a superset of the current page, 
at best.  It's also not unreasonable to want to have a way to find an 
individual Atom entry associated with this page.  This would intuitively 
seem to be a reasonable 'alternate' since it contains the same 
information in a different format.

-- 
John Panzer
Sr. Technical Manager
http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 22:01:08 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzmWS-00074e-DV
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:01:08 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA26636
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:59:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2tbQn008245;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:37 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2tb4Y008244;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2taSr008232
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so361046wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=MB471HZQj8/MnIXRrYcHhaRa1KcIC6R1lyelPSYtZUWKW6Ao6HJEgrJRgmH62YRwUp+WSps805fDfU3bMqjLXohrZzi3/KYqE7bUOa4fpZaFQesVTn2uWPpz3Be+KzPqjf6edvb3qZdavhF2Ed+NMxC2xgVnMHSeAdDU6VAZzKI=
Received: by 10.65.148.13 with SMTP id a13mr952409qbo;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.65.83.11 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:55:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50601191855m4f92b11ds32741131c59ecd35@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:55:35 -0500
From: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>
To: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>,
        Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <43D04D68.7000602@aol.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
	 <3f1451f50601191729t2518daces9fe820a6b32d75a1@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43D04D68.7000602@aol.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K2taSr008238
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net> wrote:
>
> What autodiscovery links should I do on a web page that displays a
> single blog entry, like this one?
>
> http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer/entries/1238

Actually on my blog each page has a feed associated with
it that is a feed of all the comments on that page.

Regardless, the current spec is unambiguous, it points to
feeds. If we want it to point to something besides a feed
it has to be changed.

If we were to change something, one way to disambiguate feeds
from entries would be to add a parameter to the mime-type:

  application/atom+xml; doc=entry

   -joe

--
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 22:06:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1Ezmbi-00081c-HJ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:06:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26970
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:05:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2rG65008155;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:16 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K2rGlV008154;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:16 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K2rFkm008148
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:16 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so344770nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:15 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=LjwjeT7oKZv5nvNeFfqOXuDx6AMBdHGFaN0vlK22yWjLgmsv/RZWSdKQntfp8iUztotldcUBBeh3DMuGga5Ld+qsE+OpVTwxPVO/yfb7vzRmryDwkY2Ujsrgu60yJNtw2pCG0kny24s/EYQjBYoeV9YdKWKqCUg5IafOh6gIljQ=
Received: by 10.36.250.64 with SMTP id x64mr1088745nzh;
        Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601191853r79500f01p3bbd99a72bf46cd3@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:53:15 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
Subject: invention (was: finishing autodiscovery, like now)
Cc: Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com>,
        Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>,
        Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0K2rGkm008149
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net> wrote:
>
> It's not unreasonable to link to the overall feed for the entire blog
> from this page, but it's a bit unreasonable to say that the feed is an
> 'alternate' for the current page -- it's a superset of the current page,
> at best.  It's also not unreasonable to want to have a way to find an
> individual Atom entry associated with this page.  This would intuitively
> seem to be a reasonable 'alternate' since it contains the same
> information in a different format.

I agree with you. But I don't want to change the document. There are
lots of other strings we could use to describe new capabilities, and
the advantages of continually re-using the string "alternate" are
pretty slim... are there any?

An alternate link with a feedish media type means "associated feed",
and all of the running code on the planet agrees with me. We can
either innovate in the WG, or finish in a month or so. I know I prefer
the latter. HTML link relations don't require a standards group to add
new ones, so people who want to do something can publish them, and
they can go code it. There are lots of open source browsers.

But, I could be in the minority. Which WG members think we should work
on exciting new HTML link relations?

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 19 22:14:27 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzmjL-0003I9-Py
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:14:27 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27416
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:12:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K39KQr008866;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:09:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K39KBV008865;
	Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:09:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K39I6O008858
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:09:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:09:33 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:09:17 +1100
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF69F8D.852FC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <3f1451f50601191855m4f92b11ds32741131c59ecd35@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 20/1/06 1:55 PM, "Joe Gregorio" <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> wrote:

>> What autodiscovery links should I do on a web page that displays a
>> single blog entry, like this one?
>> 
>> http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer/entries/1238
> 
> Actually on my blog each page has a feed associated with
> it that is a feed of all the comments on that page.

Are the comments on the same html page, or on another page? Some websites do
it the latter way. It often depends on the size of the article, especially
if the article is split into multiple pages (eg.
<http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/12/07/catching-up-with-the-atom-publishing-pr
otocol.html> ).

In the first use case, it would make sense to have @rel="alternate feed
replies" (it's an alternate representation of the page, it's a feed of
updates of this page, and it's a resource containing replies to this page).

In the latter case however @rel="alternate feed replies" would be broken.
The replies are not on that page, so how is a feed of replies an alternative
representation? It would make sense to have @rel="related feed replies"
though.

> Regardless, the current spec is unambiguous, it points to
> feeds. If we want it to point to something besides a feed
> it has to be changed.

No, it does *not* point to "feeds", it points to resources of a certain mime
type of which a subset are feeds. There's the ambiguity.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 20 04:45:00 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EzspI-0004zG-OY
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:45:00 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA25795
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:43:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0K9aedY049556;
	Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:36:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0K9aeKc049555;
	Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:36:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0K9acVF049544
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:36:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Jan 2006 09:36:31 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-250-154.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.250.154]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp030) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2006 10:36:31 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:36:54 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060120093654.GP5512@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF69F8D.852FC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <3f1451f50601191308x3b16aa1fp3daab5d3d0b9fabb@mail.gmail.com> <BFF67D41.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <3f1451f50601191729t2518daces9fe820a6b32d75a1@mail.gmail.com> <43D04D68.7000602@aol.net> <3f1451f50601191855m4f92b11ds32741131c59ecd35@mail.gmail.com> <BFF63998.85163%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <43CFFD44.80102@gmail.com> <20060119231040.GN5512@klangraum> <BFF67D48.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BFF69F8D.852FC%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <3f1451f50601191855m4f92b11ds32741131c59ecd35@mail.gmail.com> <43CFFD44.80102@gmail.com> <BFF67D48.8526C%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id EAA25795


* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-20 01:50]:
>On 20/1/06 10:10 AM, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
>> And someone else still uses Atom in yet another clever way.
>
>Which is precisely why link[@rel=3D"alternate",@type=3D"atom+xml"]
>is an *ambiguous* way of discovering atom Feeds ...

And why `rel=3D"feed"` will not disambiguate them.

>> It=C2=B9s just impossible to specify enough precise semantics to
>> cover everyone=C2=B9s use cases, and no single app will ever
>> understand all of these disparate semantics.
>
>Strawman. I'm not suggesting we pre-define all these other
>cases. I'm suggesting we define this one case (here is a feed
>document related to this page) in a manner which distinguishes
>it from other [undefined] cases.

No, you misunderstood the argument. I=E2=80=99m wondering why the one
case you want defined stands out over the many other possible
cases such that a definition for it is urgent, even though the
way you propose to define it would require the same sort of
effort all over for the next use case.

You=E2=80=99re asking for a semantically broken definition that fixes
one use case without providing any value for any other use case.

* James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> [2006-01-19 22:05]:
>This is a general limitation of the media type definition, not
>with the autodiscovery draft.  We have the same problem
>differentiating <atom:link type=3D"application/atom+xml"
>href=3D"..." />.  This isn't a problem that the autodiscovery
>draft needs to solve.

+1

* Joe Gregorio <joe.gregorio@gmail.com> [2006-01-20 04:00]:
>If we were to change something, one way to disambiguate feeds
>from entries would be to add a parameter to the mime-type:
>
>  application/atom+xml; doc=3Dentry

+1

Yes, that would be the correct place to fix this.

In fact, thinking about it, it seems like it would be the correct
place to put the profile information I was talking about in
another message:

    application/atom+xml;profile=3Dhttp://example.org/ns/webservices/

* Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> [2006-01-20 04:15]:
>Are the comments on the same html page, or on another page? Some
>websites do it the latter way. It often depends on the size of
>the article, especially if the article is split into multiple
>pages (eg.
><http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/12/07/catching-up-with-the-atom-publishin=
g-pr
>otocol.html> ).
>
>In the first use case, it would make sense to have
>@rel=3D"alternate feed replies" (it's an alternate representation
>of the page, it's a feed of updates of this page, and it's a
>resource containing replies to this page).
>
>In the latter case however @rel=3D"alternate feed replies" would
>be broken. The replies are not on that page, so how is a feed of
>replies an alternative representation? It would make sense to
>have @rel=3D"related feed replies" though.

Noone has explained to me so far how =E2=80=9Cthe target of this link is
a feed=E2=80=9D constitutes a relationship of the linking page with the
link target.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 20 05:21:01 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1EztO9-0001Uz-Af
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 05:21:01 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28312
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 05:19:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0KAD5xA052239;
	Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:13:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0KAD5pa052238;
	Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:13:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0KAD4ka052232
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:13:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.61)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1EztGR-00024y-52
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:13:03 +0100
Received: from ultra17.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.107])
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.61 #21)
	id 1EztGR-0003As-1h
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:13:03 +0100
Message-ID: <43D0B7A9.9020000@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:12:57 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050930)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: atom:content's src and server-driven content negotiation
References: <43CE2F04.8050207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0439E86D-7A63-4936-AE5C-6603F462C079@fondantfancies.com> <1039234116.20060119115300@djpowell.net> <7930D44E-1326-41C4-A5B3-6BD7B6DC3D28@fondantfancies.com>
In-Reply-To: <7930D44E-1326-41C4-A5B3-6BD7B6DC3D28@fondantfancies.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Graham Parks wrote:
> David Powell wrote: 
>> Possibly, but that solution isn't perfect. There is a tradeoff between
>> supplying an inaccurate type, and supplying no type at all. This TAG
>> finding [1] discusses the issue quite thoroughly.
>>
>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/mime-respect-20040225

Thanks for the pointer. Very useful.

> The recommendation at the end of section 4.1 seems appropriate  though. 
> If the advisory type attribute is incompatible, the client  should query 
> the resource to double check, or at least offer the user  the option of 
> double checking and/or loading the resource anyway.

Yes, this suggests that labeling the negotiated resource with one 
specific media type *may* work, as long as the server falls back onto it 
as a default (as opposed to sending a "300 Multiple Choices" response):

<content type="image/png" src="http://www.example.com/img" />

But since my application currently does respond with "300 Multiple 
Choices", I guess that I am stuck with violating the SHOULD and using 
the following:

<content src="http://www.example.com/img" />

Or is there any better way to handle this, given that 300 responses are 
used?

At any rate, thank you all for your replies.

Regards,

Andreas Sewe




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 11:51:04 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0LxA-0007Ia-9S
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:51:04 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11580
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:49:34 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LGRBAC092998;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LGRBWE092997;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LGRAnb092991
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:10 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so611907nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:09 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=fDc7gXNXRGNEGgw3COF3WX6nzP6T1CKdrxDP9EX4bp9BC26g95s4hzdOVJdwaRYZtPvRc2ByfaC/bETgqyTsWgUUGZHin91brE8wt3bCNdYqMw+OSno1Xc++uYNIcSjuKzkkSw52LxKxgAi/usT/9KvvnXSqPEtiB/PPISzs4So=
Received: by 10.36.74.17 with SMTP id w17mr2378678nza;
        Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:27:08 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:27:08 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>, Mark Pilgrim <pilgrim@gmail.com>
Subject: new draft? (was: invention)
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0LGRAnb092992
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/19/06, Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But, I could be in the minority. Which WG members think we should work
> on exciting new HTML link relations?
>

Wow. Nobody.

Phil, could we get a new rev of the Autodiscovery I-D?

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 13:27:38 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0NSb-0005eu-Fk
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:27:38 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17189
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:26:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LIMc8A003797;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:22:38 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LIMct3003796;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:22:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LIMarh003790
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:22:37 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:22:53 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:22:30 +1100
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF8C716.8579F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 22/1/06 3:27 AM, "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:

>> But, I could be in the minority. Which WG members think we should work
>> on exciting new HTML link relations?
>> 
> 
> Wow. Nobody.
> 
> Phil, could we get a new rev of the Autodiscovery I-D?

nobody likes a strawman.

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 15:03:28 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0OxM-0001ez-DD
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:03:28 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22457
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:02:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LJuaJE011359;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LJuaTb011358;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LJuZ04011352
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so629736nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:35 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=TCRMVFQbcXtvNwf5H3Gimu9e7TyV6N1eVdAXRs2fBU7xOg9sGAedgtrkH4xWwCSsOZUC7wdd37uqr5rzpOdFXHqo+oA+GrDVVkA3v0IrUdcrHk7aAqPVXpYT/meDaNT9ni6U5f2kmupNLMcMHzMbctm12egHr8LpE6cQJt5ZDs8=
Received: by 10.37.2.65 with SMTP id e65mr2502324nzi;
        Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.178.9 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601211156m1bfcb861q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:56:34 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0LJuZ04011353
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA22457


2006/1/21, Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>:
>
> On 1/19/06, Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > But, I could be in the minority. Which WG members think we should wor=
k
> > on exciting new HTML link relations?
> >
>
> Wow. Nobody.

I really think autodiscovery shouldn't use the link relation at all:

<title>Welcome to my blog</title>
<link rel=3D"alternate" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"feed.atom"
title=3D"Subscribe to the Atom Feed" />

<title>My dummy entry</title>
<link rel=3D"start" type=3D"text/html" href=3D"/" title=3D"This blog's ho=
me page" />
<link rel=3D"start" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"feed.atom"
title=3D"Subscribe to this blog's Atom Feed" />
<link rel=3D"alternate" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"dummy.atom"=
 />


Why not use the "media" attribute?
<link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"feed.atom"
media=3D"subscribe" />
<link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/rdf+xml" href=3D"feed.rdf"
media=3D"subscribe" />
If you have feeds dedicated to some media (mainly screen =96full content
or video enclosures=96, handheld =96summary-only or title-only, or
low-quality enclosures=96 or aural =96audio-only enclosures=96), add that
media in the comma-separated list:
<link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"articles.ato=
m"
media=3D"subscribe" />
<link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"videos.atom"
media=3D"subscribe, screen" />
<link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/atom+xml" href=3D"audio.atom"
media=3D"subscribe, aural" />
I'm not sure how the comma-separated values should be interpreted in
HTML (subscribe OR aural, or subscribe AND aural?), it might be better
to replace the previous list values with a single "parameterized"
value (e.g. "subscribe audio", "subscribe video", "subscribe text",
"subscribe audio video", etc.)

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 15:34:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0PR1-0002dR-G9
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:34:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23919
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:32:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKST9K013210;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:28:29 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LKSTuf013209;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:28:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from server02.deinternetman.nl (hosted.by.deinternetman.nl [83.98.145.60] (may be forged))
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKSRld013203
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:28:28 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from fora@annevankesteren.nl)
Received: (qmail 15021 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 21:28:20 +0100
Received: from localhost.deinternetman.net (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost.deinternetman.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 21:28:20 +0100
Received: from pat-tdc.opera.com (pat-tdc.opera.com [213.236.208.22]) by
	webmail.annevankesteren.nl (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006
	21:28:20 +0100
Message-ID: <20060121212820.xk69xi5ewxcsoo4o@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:28:20 +0100
From: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>
To: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
References: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9699fd20601211156m1bfcb861q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601211156m1bfcb861q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=UTF-8;
	format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Quoting Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>:
> Why not use the "media" attribute?

Because that would be "tag abuse".


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 15:46:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0Pd2-0006AX-Hi
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:46:32 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24470
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:45:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKgHUT013845;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LKgHKT013844;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKgG0A013838
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so633082nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=UQmbaUGZudAJw9IprwEsTVmG6Bxd1MEiL9mVUaMtdfjMqyoqJTcqxLreWiTl9mTpkflUBNvK8sYAYj+wKTG3wseJm4JbRmAXIJUV0q2BkmAaJ3BrYtX7mt+6EZrTEFpyoAqBvhIRyE4euTQhbcgXiYxtQy6Sy0myxafF4OPxsdQ=
Received: by 10.36.80.4 with SMTP id d4mr2547215nzb;
        Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.178.9 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601211242o598fdce8n@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:42:16 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
In-Reply-To: <20060121212820.xk69xi5ewxcsoo4o@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a9699fd20601211156m1bfcb861q@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060121212820.xk69xi5ewxcsoo4o@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0LKgG0A013839
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


2006/1/21, Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>:
> Quoting Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>:
> > Why not use the "media" attribute?
>
> Because that would be "tag abuse".

No more than using the @rel value (is a feed an alternate for a
single-entry HTML page?).

So let's change the application/atom+xml media type to add parameters to it:
application/atom+xml;kind=feed
application/atom+xml;kind=entry
application/atom+xml;kind=entry;type=xhtml,audio/mp3

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 16:03:41 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0Ptd-0002dn-IZ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:03:41 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25208
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:02:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKmEeu014137;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0LKmE04014136;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.196])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0LKmDlO014130
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so633499nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:13 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=DyCxbeMXkgNYznIt3JFm6OFhgkHhS6AIgnYQ+w7rH6qv4ADtDd5Kq6uBw+NSUvywrQ3anDgLvWia30fy+HbFwGGAGwzsWPpHPWzQNKDwvsJJtMdDTAhgCs3PFT41BVW/tbw9pU6s2u5dqa20grZ0+H/UddOGLc50i1tS4m1w1Rc=
Received: by 10.36.227.68 with SMTP id z68mr2536719nzg;
        Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.71 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601211248x19d5d3d5m11eb4fb028ea9dd@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:48:12 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601211242o598fdce8n@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601210827k192cf5bfj9ca9b5ce0efc9b2d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a9699fd20601211156m1bfcb861q@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060121212820.xk69xi5ewxcsoo4o@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
	 <a9699fd20601211242o598fdce8n@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0LKmDlO014131
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/21/06, Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So let's change the application/atom+xml media type to add parameters to it

Why? There's no code that needs it. More code, less email.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 21 19:12:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F0SqO-0007DN-CZ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:12:32 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA04344
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:11:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0M061aR024529;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:06:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0M061ZG024528;
	Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:06:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0M05xjb024521
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:06:00 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (203.30.247.2) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:06:17 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:05:13 +1100
Subject: Re: new draft? (was: invention)
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFF91769.85823%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601211242o598fdce8n@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 22/1/06 7:42 AM, "Thomas Broyer" <t.broyer@gmail.com> wrote:

> No more than using the @rel value (is a feed an alternate for a
> single-entry HTML page?).

Depends on what you mean by "feed". Do you mean a resource whose
representation is an Atom Feed Document, or do you mean a resource which
provides a stream of entries (in an Atom Feed Document).

The latter is the kind of thing that people want to subscribe to, but is
only a subset of the former. The former might include advertising web
services [1]

e.

[1] http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-atomwas/ 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 14:03:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1TSD-0006BQ-6J
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:03:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09931
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:02:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OIuCIb013996;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:56:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OIuCpo013995;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:56:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from [10.20.30.249] (adsl-66-125-125-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [66.125.125.65])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OIuBME013989
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:56:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from phoffman@imc.org)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p06230987bffc28a9137f@[10.20.30.249]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:56:03 -0800
To: Atom WG <atom-syntax@imc.org>
From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Subject: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


The IESG has approved requests to register the following Atom LinkRelations
attribute values in the Atom LinkRelations registry. These requests were
received from individual submitters through IANA.

The IESG contact persons are Ted Hardie and Scott Hollenbeck. The Atom
LinkRelations registry can be found at this location on the IANA web site:

http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations

Attribute Value: previous
Description: A URI that refers to the immediately preceding document in a
series of documents.
Expected display characteristics: Undefined; this relation can be used for
background processing or to provide extended functionality without
displaying its value.
Security considerations: Automated agents should take care when this
relation crosses administrative domains (e.g., the URI has a different
authority than the current document). Such agents should also take care to
detect circular references.

Attribute Value: next
Description: A URI that refers to the immediately following document in a
series of documents.
Expected display characteristics: Undefined; this relation can be used for
background processing or to provide extended functionality without
displaying its value.
Security considerations: Automated agents should take care when this
relation crosses administrative domains (e.g., the URI has a different
authority than the current document). Such agents should also take care to
detect circular references.

Attribute Value: first
Description: A URI that refers to the furthest preceding document in a
series of documents.
Expected display characteristics: Undefined; this relation can be used for
background processing or to provide extended functionality without
displaying its value.
Security considerations: Automated agents should take care when this
relation crosses administrative domains (e.g., the URI has a different
authority than the current document). Such agents should also take care to
detect circular references.

Attribute Value: last
Description: A URI that refers to the furthest following document in a
series of documents.
Expected display characteristics: Undefined; this relation can be used for
background processing or to provide extended functionality without
displaying its value.
Security considerations: Automated agents should take care when this
relation crosses administrative domains (e.g., the URI has a different
authority than the current document). Such agents should also take care to
detect circular references.

Attribute Value: current
Description: A URI that, when dereferenced, returns a feed document
containing the most recent entries in the feed.
Expected display characteristics: Undefined; this relation can be used for
background processing or to provide extended functionality without
displaying its value.
Security considerations: Automated agents should take care when this
relation crosses administrative domains (e.g., the URI has a different
authority than the current document).

Attribute Value: payment
Description: rel="payment" indicates a URI where payment is accepted. It is
meant as a general way to facilitate acts of payment, and thus this
specification makes no assumptions on the type of payment or transaction
protocol. Examples may include a WWW page where donations are accepted or
where goods and services are available for purchase.

rel="payment" is not intended to initiate an automated transaction.

A link element with a rel="payment" attribute may exist at the feed/channel
level and/or the entry/item level. For example, a rel="payment" link at the
feed/channel level may point to a "tip jar" URI, whereas an entry/item
containing a book review may include a rel="payment" link that points to the
location where the book may be purchased through an online retailer.

Display Characteristics: End-user software could support rel="payment" by
displaying a "payment button" along with the content. Alternatively, content
aggregators may display a payment hyperlink containing the text specified in
a corresponding title attribute within the <link> element, for example:

<link rel="payment" href="http://example.com/c.r.e.a.m"
title="give me the loot" />

May display either a payment button or a hyperlink containing the text,
"give me the loot."

Security Considerations: The link element is subject to tampering and
observation, as is the linked resource. For that reason, implementations
should clearly signal the level trust and privacy a linked resource
provides. If present, digital signatures provide authentication, message
integrity, and non-repudiation with proof of origin. Encryption provides
data confidentiality.

Implementations should also consider the level of confidentiality and
message integrity provided by the transport used to reach the payment
resource.

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 16:28:53 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1Vic-0006m0-R7
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:28:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00840
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:27:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLEXhW025396;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:14:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OLEX1F025394;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:14:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLEWJi025375
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:14:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177])
	by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLEWQj003325
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:14:32 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ITM00C017UF3S00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:14:32 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [10.242.9.219] ([208.54.95.129])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ITM00H4A8C3TEX3@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue,
 24 Jan 2006 14:14:31 -0700 (MST)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:08:53 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
In-reply-to: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>,
        Mark Pilgrim <pilgrim@gmail.com>
Message-id: <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Jan 19, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Robert Sayre wrote:

>
> PaceAnchorSupport and PaceDifferentRelValue don't seem very useful,
> and they weren't proposed by implementors. The spec is extremely
> well-written and reflects existing behavior.
>
> Can we please un-expire this:
> http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html
>
> and be done?

+1.  Ship it.  -Tim

>
> --
>
> Robert Sayre
>
> "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 16:44:21 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1Vxc-0006JD-NG
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:44:20 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA05227
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:42:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLZkYf026857;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:35:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OLZkEB026856;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:35:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail3.exchange.microsoft.com (mail3.exchange.microsoft.com [131.107.76.156])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLZk0P026841
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:35:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from seanlynd@exchange.microsoft.com)
Received: from df-gwy-05.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.63.146]) by mail3.exchange.microsoft.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
	 Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:35:45 -0800
Received: from df-hub-01.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.69.171) by
 df-gwy-05.exchange.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.63.146) with Microsoft SMTP
 Server id 8.0.462.19; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:35:45 +0000
Received: from df-bhd-02.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.4.151]) by
 df-hub-01.exchange.corp.microsoft.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft
 SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);	 Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:35:45 -0800
From: Sean Lyndersay <seanlynd@exchange.microsoft.com>
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>, Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>,
        Atom Syntax
	<atom-syntax@imc.org>
CC: Phil Ringnalda <philringnalda@gmail.com>, Mark Pilgrim <pilgrim@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:33:04 -0800
Subject: RE: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Thread-Topic: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Thread-Index: AcYhK8vG3vnOCSEKQJKFJUqBdKKNDwAAQ4sw
Message-ID: <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
 <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalReceiveConnectorType: FromLocal
X-GlobalRulesExecuted: True
X-InternalOrExternalRulesExecuted: True
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2006 21:35:45.0270 (UTC) FILETIME=[22344160:01C6212E]
x-microsoft-aal: 31
x-microsoft-cal: 13
x-microsoft-multilevel-authmechanism: Custom
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0OLZk0P026842
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On Jan 19, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Robert Sayre wrote:
> The spec is extremely 
> well-written [...].

Heartily concur.

On Jan 24, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Tim Bray wrote:
> +1.  Ship it.  -Tim

+1. 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Tim Bray
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:09 AM
To: Robert Sayre
Cc: Atom Syntax; Phil Ringnalda; Mark Pilgrim
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now



On Jan 19, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Robert Sayre wrote:

>
> PaceAnchorSupport and PaceDifferentRelValue don't seem very useful, 
> and they weren't proposed by implementors. The spec is extremely 
> well-written and reflects existing behavior.
>
> Can we please un-expire this:
> http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html
>
> and be done?

+1.  Ship it.  -Tim

>
> --
>
> Robert Sayre
>
> "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
>





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 17:00:44 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1WDU-0000QV-GA
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:00:44 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA06767
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:59:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLprwP028364;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OLprXo028363;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OLpqW7028354
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so1170874wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:52 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=LJX+xFE5yPbIHJFsZgugmCTZQ1ldBBT5YGC+qHhgMkW+600a9D9fgS/ReuEK2e1YREUutWPxpuFLHthY7hcfh1aNg3gAfwJwuxqBiekFqjLGb/p4+v9X5IdY6lNA12ZgQlf4pfWVVDWrgGvU4FqsaehhEaru0RbGXWncq0sowo4=
Received: by 10.54.69.14 with SMTP id r14mr566006wra;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id d7sm291771wra.2006.01.24.13.51.51;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D6A176.10700@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:51:50 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com> <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


+1

Tim Bray wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jan 19, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Robert Sayre wrote:
> 
>>
>> PaceAnchorSupport and PaceDifferentRelValue don't seem very useful,
>> and they weren't proposed by implementors. The spec is extremely
>> well-written and reflects existing behavior.
>>
>> Can we please un-expire this:
>> http://philringnalda.com/rfc/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.html
>>
>> and be done?
> 
> +1.  Ship it.  -Tim
> 
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Robert Sayre
>>
>> "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
>>
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 17:29:57 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1Wfl-0007Rk-8P
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:29:57 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10400
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:28:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OMMNRr037655;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:22:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OMMNlj037653;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:22:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0OMMLwI037586
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:22:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2006 22:22:13 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-221-191.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.221.191]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp031) with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 23:22:13 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:22:36 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Message-ID: <20060124222236.GJ26670@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id RAA10400


Hi James,

* James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com> [2006-01-17 21:50]:
>A. Pagaltzis wrote:
>>Aggregators which process @type=3D'application/xhtml+xml' as if
>>it was @type=3D'xhtml' are in error. Period.
>>
>>To recommend conflating `xhtml` and `application/xhtml+xml` is
>>to deprive content producers of precise expressibility of
>>intent.
>
>So what is your intent? What do you expect aggregators to do
>with that content?

I had to think about this for a while.

Really, what I expect them to do with that content is to not fail
to display a full document if a full document is what I provide.
That aggregators attempt to render such full documents inline
(and unsurprisingly fail to produce a reasonable facsimile of the
original) is in error.

I would further expect that full document to be rendered as is,
unadorned by any decorations the aggregator applies to its
rendering of inline content and unaffected by any aggregator
stylesheets. In other words, I shipped a full webpage in my feed,
and I expect it to render as a full webpage in a standalone
browser would.

To show a fragmentary document inline, I suppose, cannot be
argued to be in error. It is still in violation of the spirit of
the spec on the producer=E2=80=99s side to provide such, though.

>Show it as some sort of document attachment that the user would
>have to save to disk and then open up in a separate browser
>window?

As I said before, most likely, it would be shown in an IFRAME.
(This would also provide a local scope for any CSS, thereby
greatly reducing the need to cripple any included stylesheet for
anti-spoofing reasons.)

>My interpretation of the spec is that MIME types are there to
>allow for content not covered by the three basic types. So if I
>wanted my content to be a pdf document or a jpg (as *inline*
>content), I could do so by specifying the necessary MIME type
>and encoding them in whatever format the spec required for that
>type.

Yes, sure, but the whole point is moot because no such thing as a
fragmentary PDF or JPEG documemt exists. Either you have a full
PDF or JPEG document or you have corrupt, undecodable data. This
is markedly distinct from the situation we=E2=80=99re dealing with.

>Now your words were that a content producer following 0.3
>customs would be in error. From that I concluded that you
>believed the above document would be in error. And since the
>only thing I can see wrong with this document is a SHOULD
>violation, I assumed you were claiming a SHOULD violation was an
>error. Where did my line of reasoning go wrong?

Your line of reasoning did not go wrong. I just did not mean =E2=80=9Cin
error=E2=80=9D formally as in =E2=80=9Cproducing invalid Atom=E2=80=9D. W=
hat they=E2=80=99re
doing is technically permissible, because it=E2=80=99s not technically
disallowable. Replace =E2=80=9Cin error=E2=80=9D by =E2=80=9Cabusing/misi=
nterpreting the
format=E2=80=9D, if you want.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 17:31:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1WhV-0007yz-Og
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:31:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10486
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:30:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OMQHdL039378;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:26:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OMQHFk039377;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:26:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OMQGPW039327
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:26:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from JOHNPANZER.ad.aol.aoltw.net (h-10-169-155-222.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.155.222])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0OMQ9l01843;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:26:10 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:26:09 -0800
From: "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>
Subject: RE: finishing autodiscovery, like now
To: "Sean Lyndersay" <seanlynd@exchange.microsoft.com>
cc: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <43D6A981.50309@aol.net>
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com> <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com> <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
X-Mailer: AOL Communicator (20030919.3 Win)
Organization: AOL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


+1 to "ship it".

-- 
John Panzer
Sr. Technical Manager
http://journals.aol.com/panzerjohn/abstractioneer





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 18:07:50 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1XGP-0001I7-Oc
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:07:50 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA13611
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:06:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OMtKDg048689;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0OMtKJu048688;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0OMtJ9M048679
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so1181884wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:19 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=oqul8PP3S8f5sxeaFCo8sJzfSRm0Z7eGbO0GDCFhJ+O6WyBsgqzaUyzNSC3SHwfRWd2t4OA9cne+ZEa9+ZuTLD9s4frRKLvZhU/kHI4sHUUSXipMAIJGh33Xj5pVPxRQUhrrwY8wG0KfuNrLR7eOnX/6kH/QwUJnlB3IfnCB0ds=
Received: by 10.54.73.13 with SMTP id v13mr53171wra;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 66sm1076852wra.2006.01.24.14.55.18;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:55:10 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Either later today or tomorrow I will be sending off a Atom Syndication 
Format Profiles I-D for publication.  I wanted to just take a moment to 
summarize the extension here before submitting.

The extension adds two optional parameters to the Atom media type:

   type = entry | file
   profile = A comma separated list of URI's identifying a use profile 
for the Atom document

Examples:

application/atom+xml; type="entry"
application/atom+xml; type="feed"
application/atom+xml; type="feed"; profile="http://example.org/podcast,
   http://example.org/blog"

The extension also adds a new namespaced element:

<x:profile>http://example.org/podcast</x:profile>

Zero or more profile elements may appear within a feed, entry or source 
element.

The value is equivalent to the profile parameter on the media type.  The 
set of profile values contained in the document takes precedence over 
the set of profile values contained in the media type.

The Profile URI should not be assumed to be dereferenceable.

The profile value is strictly advisory.  It communicates to the user 
what kinds of metadata or content one should expect to find within the 
feed or entry or indicates how the feed/entry is intended to be used.

Profiles should (*not must*) be defined by I-D's using rfc2119 language.

Thoughts?

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 18:07:50 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1XGP-0001I6-Ob
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:07:50 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA13610
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:06:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ON0Sae049665;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:28 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ON0SQS049664;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ON0RVY049657
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:27 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so1151324nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:27 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=KPWluMiiO7N3SNqAKwjY7KJbcNIf9ivr7IqLoUqW4WyrGMx0e3MF6JNrcAWZ3ElQeyCUkgXJ+dQIu/4wkg0pESS6AF6rRv7l4d2yLqkMMblOtcdVSKiYO2s1HcGr0sjgolusGM51Qk8s5WqXv4W3JQGoOU0YjdzfBskD8Ytnc2I=
Received: by 10.36.158.12 with SMTP id g12mr5262nze;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.72 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601241500t5bfed76fw39ebc372421257@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:00:27 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0ON0RVY049659
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/24/06, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thoughts?

Less email. More code. Looks completely useless to me.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 18:25:06 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1XX8-000150-6Z
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:25:06 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA14862
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:23:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ON899s050801;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:08:09 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ON886v050800;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:08:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0ON87vj050793
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:08:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2006 23:08:01 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-221-191.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.221.191]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 25 Jan 2006 00:08:01 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:08:26 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
Message-ID: <20060124230826.GM26670@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


* James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> [2006-01-25 00:00]:
>Thoughts?

+1

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 24 20:24:01 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1ZOD-0005b2-DY
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:24:01 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24343
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:22:25 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0P1AqR2060425;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:10:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0P1Aq61060424;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:10:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav21.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.93])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0P1AqAN060418
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:10:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:10:51 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV2120103462739F781F67FEBE120@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:10:51 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <BFF15109.8465F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> <BAY106-DAV38A9DA12CD11089E07E35BE1B0@phx.gbl> <38E5F1CE-7498-4E03-959E-FE475A34EEC3@geckotribe.com> <BAY106-DAV149CAC368D73C612643A0ABE1B0@phx.gbl> <C83838F7-CFC7-4196-ADF6-6B259E6210F8@fondantfancies.com> <BAY106-DAV8D248B552CF303ACACA0EBE1B0@phx.gbl> <20060117150800.GI19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV24DF37F8CD23B498F7B6B0BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060117192113.GJ19213@klangraum> <BAY106-DAV15A3AEF18769E0B00901D2BE1A0@phx.gbl> <20060124222236.GJ26670@klangraum>
Subject: Re: partial xml in atom:content ?
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:10:44 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=original
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2006 01:10:51.0771 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F1404B0:01C6214C]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id UAA24343


A. Pagaltzis wrote:
>>So what is your intent? What do you expect aggregators to do
>>with that content?
>
> Really, what I expect them to do with that content is to not fail
> to display a full document if a full document is what I provide.
> That aggregators attempt to render such full documents inline
> (and unsurprisingly fail to produce a reasonable facsimile of the
> original) is in error.

I think I provide a reasonable facsimle of the document when I display it=
=20
inline (although no CSS). I know of maybe 4 other aggregators that handle=
=20
inline xhtml documents to some extent. Maybe 8 handle inline html documen=
ts.=20
That's not exactly great support considering I've tested 15, but nothing=20
about Atom content rendering is well supported.

> I would further expect that full document to be rendered as is,
> unadorned by any decorations the aggregator applies to its
> rendering of inline content and unaffected by any aggregator
> stylesheets. In other words, I shipped a full webpage in my feed,
> and I expect it to render as a full webpage in a standalone
> browser would.

Well to be fair your browser probably includes a title, a url bar,=20
navigation buttons, a status bar, etc. I don't think it's unreasonable fo=
r a=20
feed reader to display the title, author, date, related links and whateve=
r=20
other metadata you've associated with that document. I agree that applyin=
g=20
other styles to your document is probably pushing it.

> To show a fragmentary document inline, I suppose, cannot be
> argued to be in error. It is still in violation of the spirit of
> the spec on the producer=E2=80=99s side to provide such, though.

Agreed.

> As I said before, most likely, it would be shown in an IFRAME.
> (This would also provide a local scope for any CSS, thereby
> greatly reducing the need to cripple any included stylesheet for
> anti-spoofing reasons.)

The real problem with CSS is javascript, and I don't think an IFRAME is=20
going to help that. I'd happily leave all CSS and javascript in the HTML=20
(whether you're using a MIME type or not) if I thought it was safe. But=20
everything I've read on the subject has lead me to believe that is a bad,=
=20
bad idea.

> Yes, sure, but the whole point is moot because no such thing as a
> fragmentary PDF or JPEG documemt exists. Either you have a full
> PDF or JPEG document or you have corrupt, undecodable data. This
> is markedly distinct from the situation we=E2=80=99re dealing with.

Well I thought we were disagreeing about whether content with a MIME type=
=20
should be shown inline or not. I was just saying that I'd ideally render =
all=20
MIME type documents inline if I could. If we can agree that that's=20
acceptable, then I think our only difference of opinion is whether it's=20
acceptable to preprocess a document prior to displaying it.

I can understand why you wouldn't want your beautiful CSS being mucked up=
 by=20
a feed reader for no good reason, but security is a fairly good reason IM=
O.=20
Ideally if I had the time to write a full CSS parser that could safely=20
remove the bad bits and leave the good bits I would, but I don't think it=
's=20
reasonable to expect all (or any) feed readers to do that.

> Your line of reasoning did not go wrong. I just did not mean =E2=80=9Ci=
n
> error=E2=80=9D formally as in =E2=80=9Cproducing invalid Atom=E2=80=9D.=
 What they=E2=80=99re
> doing is technically permissible, because it=E2=80=99s not technically
> disallowable. Replace =E2=80=9Cin error=E2=80=9D by =E2=80=9Cabusing/mi=
sinterpreting the
> format=E2=80=9D, if you want.

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. I can agree with that.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 02:24:03 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1f0d-0000Bc-IB
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:24:03 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17003
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:22:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0P7Ak10086151;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0P7Ak92086150;
	Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0P7AjvX086144
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so39342nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:45 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=jqcUNB75AuhKJv2dsq/Q2x6RpoFAT9V/l4MXAl9EOXMwlkmN9u9eQP/G51BkR/gV7lvbuKwafhpJl7iURiJW2J9DR4FxvcPhgg45A3fQ0srjjXUkC6SFGLRtp1VwinzWHoiQCC110ELyhEd6L8Jtv1kW4/8SyO9zCutYq5fNRQg=
Received: by 10.36.220.2 with SMTP id s2mr349701nzg;
        Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.37.12.72 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:10:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50601242310i4cb05ab4o2167a23c8a0caa02@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:10:45 -0500
From: Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Cc: Sean Lyndersay <seanlynd@exchange.microsoft.com>,
        Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <43D6A981.50309@aol.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>
	 <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>
	 <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>
	 <43D6A981.50309@aol.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0P7AjvX086145
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 1/24/06, John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net> wrote:
>
> +1 to "ship it".

I would like to reverse my previous position.

I think it's clear that many WG members have problems with the
document. There aren't very many WG members that can get code into
anything more substantial than essentially unused Java open source
projects. But that's not what matters, right?

There are only three significant implementers here. Microsoft,
Mozilla, and Apple. But, I think it's very important to consider the
responses of every WG member, don't you? We clearly don't have rough
consensus.

--

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 05:37:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1i28-0002nL-LG
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:37:48 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29249
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:36:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PA8tc7006501;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:08:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PA8tC4006500;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:08:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PA8sHW006493
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:08:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.61)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1F1ha8-0006Wv-TM; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:08:52 +0100
Received: from ultra17.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.107])
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.61 #21)
	id 1F1ha8-0004Fs-Pa; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:08:52 +0100
Message-ID: <43D74E33.20505@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:08:51 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050930)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
References: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
> The value [of x:profile] is equivalent to the profile parameter on the media type.  The 
> set of profile values contained in the document takes precedence over 
> the set of profile values contained in the media type.

Well, this needs clarification: If a feed at
<http://www.example.com/one.atom> refers to another feed with a link
element like the following

<atom:link rel='related' href='http://www.example.com/two.atom' 
type='application/atom+xml;profile="http://www.example.com/foo"'/>

but the feed at <http://www.example.com/two.atom> contains a profile of
<x:profile>http://www.example.com/bar</x:profile> then the above should 
certainly hold: "The set of profile values contained in the document 
takes precedence over the set of profile values contained in the media 
type." (This respects the "advisory" nature of the type attribute as 
defined by the Atom Format spec.)

If, however, the feed at <http://www.example.com/two.atom> is served
with an HTTP Content-Type of 
"application/atom+xml;profile="http://www.example.com/quux" then this
profile should IMHO take precedence over the "profile values contained
in the document", i.e., "http://www.example.com/bar". (This is
consistent with the TAG findings regarding "Inconsistencies between
Representation Data and Metadata" at
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#metadata-inconsistencies>.)

Hence the need for clarification; it is not at all clear what "contained 
in the media type" means. Does it refer only to the type attribute or to 
HTTP's Content-Type as well?

Regards,

Andreas Sewe




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 08:07:35 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1kN5-0001Eo-IU
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:07:35 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10775
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:06:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PCVDoX018731;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:31:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PCVD0u018730;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:31:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0PCVBUZ018720
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:31:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Jan 2006 12:31:05 -0000
Received: from xdsl-213-196-242-236.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.242.236]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp037) with SMTP; 25 Jan 2006 13:31:05 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:31:31 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
Message-ID: <20060125123131.GO26670@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com> <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com> <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> <43D6A981.50309@aol.net> <68fba5c50601242310i4cb05ab4o2167a23c8a0caa02@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601242310i4cb05ab4o2167a23c8a0caa02@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA10775


* Robert Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> [2006-01-25 08:20]:
>I would like to reverse my previous position.

You can be a pain sometimes. :-)

>But, I think it's very important to consider the responses of
>every WG member, don't you? We clearly don't have rough
>consensus.

I=E2=80=99m not going to usurp the WG chair positions here, but it seemed
to me that there was a pretty strong =E2=80=9Cship it=E2=80=9D response.

In any case, I see it as a problem that there is no currently (if
only tentatively) valid autodiscovery document, because I=E2=80=99ve had
to advise two concerned publishers about that so far; that=E2=80=99s
something I think needs addressing ASAP. I don=E2=80=99t see any downside
to unexpiring the existing I-D that codifies the status quo.

If enough people agree that it needs to be amended, then let=E2=80=99s
unexpire it as just a draft. We can discuss it then. We just need
*something* =E2=80=9Con paper=E2=80=9D for now.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 08:57:57 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1l9p-0002jy-AP
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:57:57 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13977
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:56:25 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PDRH25027473;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:27:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PDRHa5027472;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:27:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PDRGQs027466
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:27:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bortzmeyer@nic.fr)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8454D26C0B6
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:27:15 +0100 (CET)
Received: from maya40.nic.fr (maya40.nic.fr [192.134.4.151])
	by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE5E26C0B3
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:27:14 +0100 (CET)
Received: from batilda.nic.fr (postfix@batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69])
	by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k0PDREHE750782
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:27:14 +0100 (CET)
Received: by batilda.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id 469F216A9F2; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:27:14 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:27:14 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Atom features support in readers?
Message-ID: <20060125132714.GA23576@nic.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1
X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686 i686
Organization: NIC France
X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


Is there somewhere a comprehensive survey of the current level of
support in readers, with details for each feature, specially the most
Atom-specific?

I tested content=xhtml support for several readers and none does it
properly. I would like to have information for other readers.

(Remember also the discussion here about the support of <updated>.)




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 10:48:28 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1msl-0007f8-UJ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:48:28 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22119
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:46:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PFKNgp037815;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:20:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PFKLRs037813;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:20:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.89] (may be forged))
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PFKK18037807
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:20:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:20:20 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV176B8FD72AF330BF76BEDABE120@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:20:19 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <20060125132714.GA23576@nic.fr>
Subject: Re: Atom features support in readers?
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:20:13 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2006 15:20:20.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAAB76C0:01C621C2]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> Is there somewhere a comprehensive survey of the current level of
> support in readers, with details for each feature, specially the most
> Atom-specific?

There are a couple of basic tests on the Atom wiki [1] including an 
<updated> test. They're not very comprehensive, but the pass rate doesn't 
seem to be very good even with what's there.

> I tested content=xhtml support for several readers and none does it
> properly. I would like to have information for other readers.

I've done some testing there myself (only Windows and online aggregators 
though). My finding was that you'd get much better results with escaped 
html, but if you're willing (and able) to avoid any characters that require 
escaping and don't try anything fancy with namespaces, the support isn't 
that bad.

Out of interest, which aggregators were you testing, and what specifically 
caused them to fail?

Regards
James

[1] http://intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/CategoryConformanceTests




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 11:16:59 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1nKN-0001Tk-BG
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:16:59 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24860
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:15:26 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PFeVHj038925;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:40:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PFeV5x038924;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:40:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from vanadium.sabren.com (vanadium.sabren.com [67.19.173.84])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PFeUmB038918
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:40:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from rubys@intertwingly.net)
Received: from [192.168.1.128] (cpe-066-057-027-065.nc.res.rr.com [66.57.27.65])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by vanadium.sabren.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k0PFeFPZ018622;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:40:26 -0500
Message-ID: <43D79BD1.3090604@intertwingly.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:40:01 -0500
From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom features support in readers?
References: <20060125132714.GA23576@nic.fr>
In-Reply-To: <20060125132714.GA23576@nic.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> Is there somewhere a comprehensive survey of the current level of
> support in readers, with details for each feature, specially the most
> Atom-specific?
> 
> I tested content=xhtml support for several readers and none does it
> properly. I would like to have information for other readers.
> 
> (Remember also the discussion here about the support of <updated>.)

Some results can be found here:

http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/ConformanceTests

Please feel free to add more.

- Sam Ruby




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 12:16:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1oG2-0003Fo-He
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:16:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02232
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:15:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PGamDV043136;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:36:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PGamWP043134;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:36:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PGakXI043123;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:36:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.61)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1F1ndV-00038K-Bx; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:36:45 +0100
Received: from ultra16.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.106])
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.61 #21)
	id 1F1ndV-0001CT-9n; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:36:45 +0100
Message-ID: <43D7A91A.7070101@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:36:42 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050930)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
References: <43D67DB3.9000204@dehora.net>
In-Reply-To: <43D67DB3.9000204@dehora.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Regarding the following four link relations there seem to be some 
inconsistencies with (or maybe only within) the APP 0.7 draft (but 
hopefully the editors of 0.8 have caught those already ;-):

> Attribute Value: previous
> Attribute Value: next
> Attribute Value: first
> Attribute Value: last

In section 9.1 of draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07 it is first stated that 
  an '[..] Atom feed document MAY contain link elements with "rel" 
attribute values of "next", "previous", "start" and "end" [...]'. There 
is a mismatch between the last two values and the ones proposed for 
registration: "first" and "last".

Two paragraphs further down section 9.1 starts using "prev" throughout 
-- instead of "previous", as proposed to the IANA.

These inconsistencies should be resolved, IMHO, ideally by using "prev", 
"next", "start", and "end", since at least the first three values mimic 
their functionally similar HTML counterparts. And APP should follow the 
rule of least astonishment here.

Regards,

Andreas Sewe




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 12:26:54 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1oQ2-00042W-86
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:26:54 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03287
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:25:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PGjtRu043819;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PGjteS043818;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PGjsKw043812
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so129323wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:54 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=Z8L16/2y9qWRoy5jt9ioQBTFH9N66qIiP/+rxNUkk9VB7PwvcKMg1JuBrihFlqbqa5P21/ggBEjmSklu7yndU2pxosspbNCIbQcS2LP43+qGhe1pbjeWVW8luZNwa+q+26cCCEzD0dJes7Cv4YfQT/jhyLmIUHxFKEcuTLOBy5c=
Received: by 10.65.97.8 with SMTP id z8mr452074qbl;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id a5sm477761qbd.2006.01.25.08.45.51;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D7AB3D.8000406@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:45:49 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
References: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com> <43D74E33.20505@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
In-Reply-To: <43D74E33.20505@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Excellent points and yes, you're absolutely correct.  If/when the 
profile parameter is used in the HTTP content-type, it needs to take 
precedence over the metadata contained inline.

Andreas Sewe wrote:
> James M Snell wrote:
>> The value [of x:profile] is equivalent to the profile parameter on the 
>> media type.  The set of profile values contained in the document takes 
>> precedence over the set of profile values contained in the media type.
> 
> Well, this needs clarification: If a feed at
> <http://www.example.com/one.atom> refers to another feed with a link
> element like the following
> 
> <atom:link rel='related' href='http://www.example.com/two.atom' 
> type='application/atom+xml;profile="http://www.example.com/foo"'/>
> 
> but the feed at <http://www.example.com/two.atom> contains a profile of
> <x:profile>http://www.example.com/bar</x:profile> then the above should 
> certainly hold: "The set of profile values contained in the document 
> takes precedence over the set of profile values contained in the media 
> type." (This respects the "advisory" nature of the type attribute as 
> defined by the Atom Format spec.)
> 
> If, however, the feed at <http://www.example.com/two.atom> is served
> with an HTTP Content-Type of 
> "application/atom+xml;profile="http://www.example.com/quux" then this
> profile should IMHO take precedence over the "profile values contained
> in the document", i.e., "http://www.example.com/bar". (This is
> consistent with the TAG findings regarding "Inconsistencies between
> Representation Data and Metadata" at
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#metadata-inconsistencies>.) 
> 
> 
> Hence the need for clarification; it is not at all clear what "contained 
> in the media type" means. Does it refer only to the type attribute or to 
> HTTP's Content-Type as well?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andreas Sewe
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 13:38:37 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1pXQ-0001Zk-Rm
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:38:37 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11505
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:37:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PI3n2v053858;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:03:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PI3naD053857;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:03:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PI3mIK053839;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:03:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [10.169.186.31] (sera-10-169-186-31.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.31])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0PI3gl28069;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D7BD81.3080602@aol.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:03:45 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: finishing autodiscovery, like now
References: <68fba5c50601190905g51a49832qa87b605d23e64e75@mail.gmail.com>	 <C7A415A3-3213-465D-B6B7-2A1AC5375423@sun.com>	 <9138FF9DE9175C489F6F5477262E4FA813DFC1@DF-TERRIER-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com>	 <43D6A981.50309@aol.net> <68fba5c50601242310i4cb05ab4o2167a23c8a0caa02@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50601242310i4cb05ab4o2167a23c8a0caa02@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


To clarify my +1 to "Ship it":  At AOL, we are using Atom internally as 
a data exchange format (and just converted to 1.0 syntax).  We are using 
an early version of the introspection document as well, but only for 
limited internal use as it's nonstandard and likely to change.  When the 
dust settles on the APP we plan to use it both internally and 
externally.  Thus I have a strong interest in settling the dust.

-John




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 14:53:45 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1qi9-0008OU-Be
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:53:45 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18558
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:52:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJLjB2059732;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:21:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PJLjsc059731;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:21:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zeke.ecotroph.net (zeke.hxr.us [69.31.8.124])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJLilR059703;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:21:44 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sah@428cobrajet.net)
Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87])
  (AUTH: LOGIN sah, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5)
  by zeke.ecotroph.net with esmtp; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:21:04 -0500
  id 01588087.43D7CFA0.00000A60
From: "Scott Hollenbeck" <sah@428cobrajet.net>
To: "'Andreas Sewe'" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "'Atom Publishing Protocol'" <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Cc: "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:21:37 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Thread-Index: AcYhzZPmlyNSd5JbRGq7u7SJwlzbmgAFk22g
In-Reply-To: <43D7A91A.7070101@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andreas Sewe [mailto:sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:37 AM
> To: Atom Publishing Protocol
> Cc: Atom Syntax
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute 
> Value Registrations]
> 
> 
> Regarding the following four link relations there seem to be some 
> inconsistencies with (or maybe only within) the APP 0.7 draft (but 
> hopefully the editors of 0.8 have caught those already ;-):
> 
> > Attribute Value: previous
> > Attribute Value: next
> > Attribute Value: first
> > Attribute Value: last
> 
> In section 9.1 of draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07 it is first 
> stated that 
>   an '[..] Atom feed document MAY contain link elements with "rel" 
> attribute values of "next", "previous", "start" and "end" 
> [...]'. There 
> is a mismatch between the last two values and the ones proposed for 
> registration: "first" and "last".
> 
> Two paragraphs further down section 9.1 starts using "prev" 
> throughout 
> -- instead of "previous", as proposed to the IANA.
> 
> These inconsistencies should be resolved, IMHO, ideally by 
> using "prev", 
> "next", "start", and "end", since at least the first three 
> values mimic 
> their functionally similar HTML counterparts. And APP should 
> follow the 
> rule of least astonishment here.

There's one minor problem with the suggestion above: the IESG just approved
the registration requests for "previous", "first", and "last" that were
supposedly discussed and agreed-to within the working group.  That decision
can be revisited, but if you all decide to make a change the IESG will have
to remove or otherwise obsolete the just-approved values.  You'll then need
to go through the approval process again.

-Scott-




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 15:20:24 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1r7w-0003cj-HV
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:20:24 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20395
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:18:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJuKjP061914;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PJuKZZ061908;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJuK1U061900
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so172292wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:19 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=SMJ0BQE2euM0j9f18fWwrIaOGocE/UxRUQISEY1RWQn0nmdzLn2CJUcYyYqDLEqu8ArvuBMKootqpTClByNux/4lrFtlqszYSGmS1bCxcl/trXd+HXhoM2X6wE/7w9NJFKTMGYx8hMv90kS8h94wwFaiPRf+yx/D7LgGeKwvU+8=
Received: by 10.65.191.3 with SMTP id t3mr602836qbp;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q16sm726520qbq.2006.01.25.11.56.18;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D7D7DA.8090400@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:56:10 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "'Atom Publishing Protocol'" <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
References: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
In-Reply-To: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


APP should use the values as registered.  That is, previous, next, 
first, last and current.  No need to modify the registrations.

Scott Hollenbeck wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andreas Sewe [mailto:sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:37 AM
>> To: Atom Publishing Protocol
>> Cc: Atom Syntax
>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute 
>> Value Registrations]
>>
>>
>> Regarding the following four link relations there seem to be some 
>> inconsistencies with (or maybe only within) the APP 0.7 draft (but 
>> hopefully the editors of 0.8 have caught those already ;-):
>>
>>> Attribute Value: previous
>>> Attribute Value: next
>>> Attribute Value: first
>>> Attribute Value: last
>> In section 9.1 of draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-07 it is first 
>> stated that 
>>   an '[..] Atom feed document MAY contain link elements with "rel" 
>> attribute values of "next", "previous", "start" and "end" 
>> [...]'. There 
>> is a mismatch between the last two values and the ones proposed for 
>> registration: "first" and "last".
>>
>> Two paragraphs further down section 9.1 starts using "prev" 
>> throughout 
>> -- instead of "previous", as proposed to the IANA.
>>
>> These inconsistencies should be resolved, IMHO, ideally by 
>> using "prev", 
>> "next", "start", and "end", since at least the first three 
>> values mimic 
>> their functionally similar HTML counterparts. And APP should 
>> follow the 
>> rule of least astonishment here.
> 
> There's one minor problem with the suggestion above: the IESG just approved
> the registration requests for "previous", "first", and "last" that were
> supposedly discussed and agreed-to within the working group.  That decision
> can be revisited, but if you all decide to make a change the IESG will have
> to remove or otherwise obsolete the just-approved values.  You'll then need
> to go through the approval process again.
> 
> -Scott-
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 15:21:09 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1r8e-0003n7-Rx
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:21:09 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20437
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:19:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJpZY8061681;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:51:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PJpZNg061680;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:51:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fondantfancies.com ([69.10.132.130])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PJpYVS061674
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:51:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from graham@fondantfancies.com)
Received: from [Ap@IPv6:::1] (69.10.132.130 [69.10.132.130])
	by mail.fondantfancies.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F4B106DE
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:51:33 +0000 (GMT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
In-Reply-To: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
References: <43D6B04E.6080406@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <33CFDF17-84A2-47F6-B546-37921EDAEAC4@fondantfancies.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Graham Parks <graham@fondantfancies.com>
Subject: Re: Preparing the Atom Format Profile Draft
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:51:12 +0000
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 24 Jan 2006, at 10:55 pm, James M Snell wrote:

> Thoughts?

It's either not going to be used or will be abused when it is. I  
can't see it ending well.

Graham




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 25 17:27:26 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1t6s-0002XG-6P
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:27:26 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29351
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:25:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PM2F26069690;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:02:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0PM2F2P069688;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:02:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PM2EQm069675;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:02:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176])
	by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0PM2Duf017860;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:02:13 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ITO00H0154ETW00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:02:13 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [10.242.9.210] ([208.54.73.185])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ITO00AYD57OI9S0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed,
 25 Jan 2006 15:02:13 -0700 (MST)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:02:14 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
In-reply-to: <43D7D7DA.8090400@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Atom Publishing Protocol'" <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-id: <299FEDD0-FAA0-4B6E-B328-B97423C2ADF5@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
 <43D7D7DA.8090400@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:56 AM, James M Snell wrote:

>
> APP should use the values as registered.  That is, previous, next,  
> first, last and current.  No need to modify the registrations.

+1




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 00:30:42 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F1ziU-0006XE-2h
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:30:42 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA11816
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:29:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0Q5NuVE013440;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0Q5NuOA013439;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0Q5Nual013433
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i22so288535wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:55 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=llwb221SCrzg3DiZyAzgIswqEJav3ZAeHMIRJExAG341Xq7ecn0S97uJYV809fVn/lxlFXULUT9enARc4Pg9gdO2P5PRVE8SdjVuM/w+JqW9JbDH9ErelebWXre878j2BC7QkTFRLZDlt9YzX4XnrxRHy7lVqZ63/AEzRupYPv0=
Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr454396qbx;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id a29sm581700qbd.2006.01.25.21.23.55;
        Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D85CE9.6090305@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:53 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Feed Thread Draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Updated Feed Thread Draft

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-feed-thread-04.txt

A few changes reflecting on-list and implementor feedback.

<thr:in-reply-to id="tag:example.org,2006:/some/entry"
                  href="http://example.org/2006/01/25/mycat.html"
                  type="application/xhtml+xml"
                  source="http://example.org/atom.xml" />

<link rel="replies"
       type="application/atom+xml"
       href="http://example.org/comments.xml"
       thr:count="20" />

So far I know of two vendors with running (but as yet unreleased) code 
implementing the spec as written in this draft and at least one feed 
reader with plans to implement.  If you plan to implement support for 
this spec, I'd appreciate a heads up.

At this point I'm declaring this spec complete (except for possible 
editorial cleanups here and there as they may pop up).  It will be 
individually submitted as a standards track RFC just as soon as the APP 
draft is sent off.  I thank those of you in this WG who offered feedback 
through the development of this spec.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 02:56:37 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F21zg-0003cA-Er
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:56:37 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA20421
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:55:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0Q7l6Da022696;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:47:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0Q7l6nS022695;
	Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:47:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0Q7l590022687
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:47:05 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [192.168.0.99] (211.26.138.222) by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:47:20 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:46:54 +1100
Subject: Re: Feed Thread Draft
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <BFFEC99E.8654A%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <43D85CE9.6090305@gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 26/1/06 4:23 PM, "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:

> <thr:in-reply-to id="tag:example.org,2006:/some/entry"

is that id for the thing being replied to, or the id of this thr:in-reply-to
element? if the former, is suspect idref would be more appropriate. but what
do I know?

e.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 08:21:13 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F273p-00068l-6H
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:21:13 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13128
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:19:41 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QDC4Vp048966;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:12:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0QDC4Dw048965;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:12:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout0.freenet.de (mout0.freenet.de [194.97.50.131])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QDC3rY048952;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:12:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.61)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1F26uv-0000PY-Pl; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:12:01 +0100
Received: from ultra17.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.107])
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.61 #21)
	id 1F26uv-0007ar-Hm; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:12:01 +0100
Message-ID: <43D8CA9A.5080402@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:11:54 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050930)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Scott Hollenbeck <sah@428cobrajet.net>
CC: "'Atom Publishing Protocol'" <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
References: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
In-Reply-To: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Scott Hollenbeck wrote:
> There's one minor problem with the suggestion above: the IESG just approved
> the registration requests for "previous", "first", and "last" that were
> supposedly discussed and agreed-to within the working group.  That decision
> can be revisited, but if you all decide to make a change the IESG will have
> to remove or otherwise obsolete the just-approved values.  You'll then need
> to go through the approval process again.

No need to do that, as long as the editors of the APP do change "prev", 
"start", and "end" (which seem to be APP 0.2 relics copy-and-pasted into 
a 0.7 future) to the values just registered.

Too bad the values used are inconsistent with XHTML rel values, though, 
but then again I probably suffer from syntactic hypersensitivity. ;-)

Anyways, back to lurking...

Andreas Sewe




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 10:57:37 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F29VB-0000jN-83
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:57:37 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29488
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:56:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QFc3s3063384;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:38:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0QFc3je063383;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:38:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.89] (may be forged))
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QFc2YH063371;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:38:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:38:02 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV177FA0EF8E077E3CA39F9ABE150@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:38:02 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "'Atom Publishing Protocol'" <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        "'Atom Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <courier.43D7CFA0.00000A60@zeke.ecotroph.net> <43D8CA9A.5080402@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Approval of Atom LinkRelations Attribute Value Registrations]
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:37:55 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2006 15:38:02.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E082040:01C6228E]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Andreas Sewe wrote:
> Too bad the values used are inconsistent with XHTML rel values, though, 
> but then again I probably suffer from syntactic hypersensitivity. ;-)

The value was "prev" initially, but some people expressed a preference for 
"previous" and I figured it wasn't worth another month of arguing. We 
already had enough problems fighting about which direction the links were 
supposed to point and what to call current/feed/subscribe. At that stage I 
was thinking (and still think) the easiest solution would just be to check 
for any variation of text and follow whatever direction it is pointing.

Also the OpenSearch docs had gone with "previous" and were claiming a 
pending IETF registration at the time. That may have had something to do 
with it too.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 17:00:56 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2FAl-0000b4-Pz
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:00:56 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11575
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:59:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QLiBjl091655;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0QLiBvT091654;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0QLiBiv091648
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so478169wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:10 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=Uar2el0wphhPG78Qll1KFimHv/ier6QbLQRbI+J8mFHCCInfklHnxEtXVFk67MQRR0nqaKKGOkM+S4xa1ThvP0TJ0IETHCswHtiSknDiq/KQdTcTK3MTF7FTnWgDKrbSVkI6OcImxY32j4TEQgWaaJbaiTGK5UAw47T1uHFummw=
Received: by 10.54.81.5 with SMTP id e5mr2733450wrb;
        Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g3sm2532860wra.2006.01.26.13.44.09;
        Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:44:07 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Atom Tombstones Draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Still in experimental stages.  Cleaned up a bit and removed the 
archived-entry element.  Comments requested... particularly from 
potential client implementors...

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-tombstones-01.txt

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 19:41:41 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2HgL-0003Ls-E6
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:41:41 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21604
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:40:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R0ZNkL003148;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:35:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0R0ZNBm003147;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:35:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav3.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.75])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R0ZNLN003141
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:35:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:35:23 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:35:23 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "atom-syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:34:55 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2006 00:35:23.0213 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F2F57D0:01C622D9]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
> Still in experimental stages.  Cleaned up a bit and removed the 
> archived-entry element.  Comments requested... particularly from potential 
> client implementors...
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-tombstones-01.txt

I'm glad you've brought this up - I was just thinking about it last night. 
Technically it looks great to me. I'm only interested in simply deleting any 
tombstones I receive, so all I really need is the "id" attribute. I 
understand the need for the "by" and "comments" elements - just saying I'm 
unlikely to notice any problems with them.

As for the date, I'm unsure whether an Atom processor should be ignoring 
tombstones that are dated older than the current updated date on an element. 
If so, is that something worth mentioning in the spec?

Other editorial nits: In the introduction, "explicitly" is used twice in the 
same sentence and you have a split infinitive - suggest nuking the first 
usage. Near the end of section 3, you use the expression "deletion 
operation". I don't know if it's just me, but that sounds wrong. Maybe 
"delete operation", just "deletion", or even "removal of the entry" (which 
is what you use later in section 5).

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 20:16:10 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2IDi-0007jg-L7
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:16:10 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA23436
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:14:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R1AKek005686;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0R1AKkc005685;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R1AJ5Y005679
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so449720wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:19 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=WRYkvLRz0FIE3peAajhE+nl0paYVJrV8lO00oCs2fQKqN4IG0ftBc7Jbva0CRnPVfG1HpVTaX71yRSJ2XnVIYXXCYGHEteWIxikvLF9pAJ1+DM1tsuH5VVJ2dc0cmgqtXF4gl9/8JhxsA4do/196/ySnH26qWlp8fdQ+Oh3pT8Q=
Received: by 10.54.92.8 with SMTP id p8mr3179537wrb;
        Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 28sm4643436wrl.2006.01.26.17.10.17;
        Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:10:15 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


The by and comment elements are largely speculative right now. Now sure 
if they'll stay in there or not.

And yes, it would likely be a good idea for Atom processors to ignore 
deleted-entry elements whose date is older than the entries updated 
date.  Also, just because an entry was deleted once, doesn't mean it 
can't show back up again later... it should just be treated as a new 
entry if it does.

One question: what's a reasonable length of time to keep the 
deleted-entry elements in a feed?  We don't really want to keep those 
things around forever.

James Holderness wrote:
> 
> James M Snell wrote:
>> Still in experimental stages.  Cleaned up a bit and removed the 
>> archived-entry element.  Comments requested... particularly from 
>> potential client implementors...
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-tombstones-01.txt
> 
> I'm glad you've brought this up - I was just thinking about it last 
> night. Technically it looks great to me. I'm only interested in simply 
> deleting any tombstones I receive, so all I really need is the "id" 
> attribute. I understand the need for the "by" and "comments" elements - 
> just saying I'm unlikely to notice any problems with them.
> 
> As for the date, I'm unsure whether an Atom processor should be ignoring 
> tombstones that are dated older than the current updated date on an 
> element. If so, is that something worth mentioning in the spec?
> 
> Other editorial nits: In the introduction, "explicitly" is used twice in 
> the same sentence and you have a split infinitive - suggest nuking the 
> first usage. Near the end of section 3, you use the expression "deletion 
> operation". I don't know if it's just me, but that sounds wrong. Maybe 
> "delete operation", just "deletion", or even "removal of the entry" 
> (which is what you use later in section 5).
> 
> Regards
> James
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 26 20:31:18 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2ISM-0004XW-1T
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:31:18 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24396
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:29:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R1Pqaf006624;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:25:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0R1PqQ3006623;
	Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:25:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav3.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.75])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R1Pqit006574
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:25:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:25:47 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:25:47 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "atom-syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl> <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:25:40 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2006 01:25:47.0890 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A086D20:01C622E0]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
> One question: what's a reasonable length of time to keep the deleted-entry 
> elements in a feed?  We don't really want to keep those things around 
> forever.

Actually I think I probably would recommend keeping them forever. Just treat 
them like any other entry. If they fall out the bottom of the feed window 
that's ok, but if the server implements next/previous links to history 
feeds, then the tombstone could still be found in the archives.

Anything else is just guessing. You really can't tell how regularly a user 
might update from your feed. Now if you don't support history then it's just 
tough luck - the fact that they've missed out on entries is more of a 
problem than missing out on deletions. However, if you do support history, 
it would be a shame not to support tombstones in that history as well.

Anyway, that's my preference. Not necessarily a SHOULD recommendation - just 
my personal opinion.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 03:24:34 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2OuI-0004TO-Ep
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:24:34 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18038
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:23:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R8JEhh040324;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0R8JEpi040323;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R8JD5f040317
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so551581nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:13 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=ObrMHC+sqx+CUz9g6/zawNdqlQDUzWlc/IDCo/OwpaauMgmYoII0isZr+rtI79AdB4fY42gkcHk8suqm0AIkx6mGk/FImOnn87e7Lm2pfMKMSz1RiIr6MpbeX4k0aXh2PByymA69zlEB9GZ5B2pdoz67LUnuxo65cueZF9ntHUI=
Received: by 10.36.146.8 with SMTP id t8mr2340749nzd;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.133.16 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601270019s39d56fe6s@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:19:12 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>
	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>
	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>
	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0R8JD5f040318
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id DAA18038


2006/1/27, James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>:
>
> James M Snell wrote:
> > One question: what's a reasonable length of time to keep the deleted-=
entry
> > elements in a feed?  We don't really want to keep those things around
> > forever.
>
> Actually I think I probably would recommend keeping them forever. Just =
treat
> them like any other entry. If they fall out the bottom of the feed wind=
ow
> that's ok, but if the server implements next/previous links to history
> feeds, then the tombstone could still be found in the archives.

[=85]

> Anyway, that's my preference. Not necessarily a SHOULD recommendation -=
 just
> my personal opinion.

+1

Maybe at:by and at:comment could be used in pub:control in the APP as wel=
l

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 03:55:47 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2POV-0007rk-Kc
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:55:47 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19327
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:54:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R8nbx7043616;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:37 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0R8nbnR043615;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.201])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0R8naN5043609
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s17so344158wxc
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=csrvUJfP5LEPrASP87q0esiC9zycNA4mBJlcgo5Q0KWTZ9rYNd0eU+NXxqAej5FjpcPzUBEgIMgXXzwCt9ACKuQVEEZeZoa+WVNmrSRUdscgc0bnCcbIrG6HQso1HWv6HLe02KRRruSEAbgYR0GvpAzj0v7NJdpzsKeLA9juGOg=
Received: by 10.70.125.18 with SMTP id x18mr3349087wxc;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id i40sm3909579wxd.2006.01.27.00.49.34;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43D9DE9D.5000300@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:49:33 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl> <a9699fd20601270019s39d56fe6s@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601270019s39d56fe6s@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Thomas Broyer wrote:
>> Anyway, that's my preference. Not necessarily a SHOULD recommendation - just
>> my personal opinion.
> 
> +1
> 
> Maybe at:by and at:comment could be used in pub:control in the APP as well
> 

Hmmh... hadn't thought of that.  Edit comments are common and 
pub:control would be the logical place to put 'em.  I'm not so sure that 
putting at:by in pub:control gives us anything useful tho.  Will have to 
stew on that one.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 13:15:55 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2Y8Z-0005GU-4W
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:15:55 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02032
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:14:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RI0wxk080931;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:00:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0RI0wa9080930;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:00:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (r2d2.aoltw.net [64.236.137.26])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RI0vS3080918;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:00:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [10.169.186.61] (sera-10-169-186-61.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.61])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0RI0ka28076;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:00:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DA5FD3.9000508@aol.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:00:51 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
CC: atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: An Atom syntax based transformation service
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I have a use case where I think the Atom syntax works well, but it's not 
an APP scenario.

I want to provide a web service which renders arbitrary (X)HTML content 
'safe' for rendering on web pages.  This would basically mean applying 
an element/attribute whitelist filter and also transforming content into 
XHTML.  It might also provide optional rules for dealing with titles 
(e.g., transforming into a plain text approximation) that would be 
useful for clients.  The motivation here is to allow things like third 
party comments in web pages without allowing cross-site scripting 
attacks or just bad markup that might destroy the page.  The reasoning 
for providing a web service is that this kind of thing is only an 
approximation and requires constant maintenance and updates as new 
attacks appear.

My first thought is to simply provide a custom endpoint which accepts 
POSTs of Atom Entries (or even Atom Feeds) and returns the transformed 
Atom content with an appropriate HTTP return status.  (What success 
return status would be most appropriate for this type of transformation 
service?)  This part just seems too easy -- is there anything else I'm 
missing?

Thanks,
John




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 13:25:48 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2YI8-0007pi-7D
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:25:48 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02760
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RIHLlC081736;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0RIHK6A081733;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RIHKiO081721
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so719465wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:19 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=EKbE/S+GwLUkXv0pKh5f4VtKJTcZAhq5xcSHzRDucF4ne+H+EUzSa/QWALKGtr/wjwO6mjFR1/yh7dof1WA8I5XylHddAeM5fIeQEWIPSVatQnF/c6soG1gsPq9muHpN29LjQtoKAeKe439MHA9ReJT17IWzfeY8gecOo/guqYE=
Received: by 10.65.206.14 with SMTP id i14mr504062qbq;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e15sm2382489qba.2006.01.27.10.17.18;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DA63AC.4060304@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:16 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>, atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: An Atom syntax based transformation service
References: <43DA5FD3.9000508@aol.net>
In-Reply-To: <43DA5FD3.9000508@aol.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Here's what I'd expect:

# Post (X)HTML or Atom (entries or feeds) directly
POST /service HTTP/1.1
Host: ...
Content-Type: application/xhtml+xml
Content-Length: nnnn

...

# Response with 200 OK and transformed content
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: ...
Content-Type: application/xhtml+xml
Content-Length: nnnn

...

Or, if the content is URL addressable..

# Get with a querystring
GET /service?url={url of content} HTTP/1.1
Host: ...

# Response with 200 OK and transformed content
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: ...
Content-Type: application/xhtml+xml
Content-Length: nnnn


Obviously the GET approach is optimum.

- James

John Panzer wrote:
> 
> I have a use case where I think the Atom syntax works well, but it's not 
> an APP scenario.
> 
> I want to provide a web service which renders arbitrary (X)HTML content 
> 'safe' for rendering on web pages.  This would basically mean applying 
> an element/attribute whitelist filter and also transforming content into 
> XHTML.  It might also provide optional rules for dealing with titles 
> (e.g., transforming into a plain text approximation) that would be 
> useful for clients.  The motivation here is to allow things like third 
> party comments in web pages without allowing cross-site scripting 
> attacks or just bad markup that might destroy the page.  The reasoning 
> for providing a web service is that this kind of thing is only an 
> approximation and requires constant maintenance and updates as new 
> attacks appear.
> 
> My first thought is to simply provide a custom endpoint which accepts 
> POSTs of Atom Entries (or even Atom Feeds) and returns the transformed 
> Atom content with an appropriate HTTP return status.  (What success 
> return status would be most appropriate for this type of transformation 
> service?)  This part just seems too easy -- is there anything else I'm 
> missing?
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 15:36:43 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2aKp-00075x-JL
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:36:43 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12174
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:35:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RKUPEP091265;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0RKUPj7091264;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RKUOs1091258
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so745868wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:24 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=b3oTx+Dr4/GwYp7Cvc35t/lEFiHtaVLvyVMZiq7nIlFdlbUgsc6pQYS35Cc8+wrI8S9vpXRK800KJNTsJYMeQEtYxz0xi/lXO29CWh4qJHHHVUqh77rGi6bYWjsHlzt+aQudD6Qj13V46fF4gzmWCoPEiWcV3zX6x5kU33ol1pg=
Received: by 10.65.206.14 with SMTP id i14mr633971qbq;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id m3sm1940392qbe.2006.01.27.12.30.21;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:30:19 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl> <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Ok, so this makes sense and I've received other input that the id and 
when attributes should be elements instead.  Given this, perhaps the 
deleted-entry should look something like this instead:

<at:deleted-entry>
   <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id><--required-->
   <atom:updated>2005-01-27T12:12:12Z</atom:updated><--required-->
   <atom:author><atom:name>James</atom:name></atom:author><--optional-->
   <atom:summary>comment spam</atom:summary><--optional-->
</at:deleted-entry>

In a feed, these would appear mixed in with atom:entry elements:

<feed>
   ...
   <entry>...</entry>
   <entry>...</entry>
   <at:deleted-entry>
     <id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</id>
     <updated>2006-01-27T12:12:12Z</updated>
   </at:deleted-entry>
   <entry>...</entry>
   ...
</feed>

Is this better?

- James

James Holderness wrote:
> 
> James M Snell wrote:
>> One question: what's a reasonable length of time to keep the 
>> deleted-entry elements in a feed?  We don't really want to keep those 
>> things around forever.
> 
> Actually I think I probably would recommend keeping them forever. Just 
> treat them like any other entry. If they fall out the bottom of the feed 
> window that's ok, but if the server implements next/previous links to 
> history feeds, then the tombstone could still be found in the archives.
> 
> Anything else is just guessing. You really can't tell how regularly a 
> user might update from your feed. Now if you don't support history then 
> it's just tough luck - the fact that they've missed out on entries is 
> more of a problem than missing out on deletions. However, if you do 
> support history, it would be a shame not to support tombstones in that 
> history as well.
> 
> Anyway, that's my preference. Not necessarily a SHOULD recommendation - 
> just my personal opinion.
> 
> Regards
> James
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 18:00:38 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2ca6-0003V9-0v
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:00:38 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24240
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:59:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RMrEff098174;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0RMrEVr098173;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0RMrDYI098167
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so700571nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:12 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=FzB2K16PVNP+Rzo3aThQJqL6MDMfpfS36xqy2ohjllyz4d8VqENiqTBLQNAObQUHNbifJCEY+zIGV/mI2jlnTzhLzcACuQU7aEF4uWvOxgfvN0AnVjAn1pgsYT8xwhFvISWS8OgaSmzxwaQSmvmUl6fqjZXTC+RKw18y3Fc/VNc=
Received: by 10.37.20.41 with SMTP id x41mr2930388nzi;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.133.16 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:53:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601271453k2fab6151t@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:53:12 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
In-Reply-To: <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>
	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>
	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>
	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>
	 <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0RMrDYI098168
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id RAA24240


2006/1/27, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>:
> <at:deleted-entry>
>    <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id><--required-->
>    <atom:updated>2005-01-27T12:12:12Z</atom:updated><--required-->
>    <atom:author><atom:name>James</atom:name></atom:author><--optional--=
>
>    <atom:summary>comment spam</atom:summary><--optional-->
> </at:deleted-entry>

[=85]

> Is this better?

No, because it's not clear whether atom:author and atom:summary were
the one of the deleted entry or relative to the deletion.

<at:deleted-entry>
    <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id>
    <atom:updated>2005-01-27T12:12:12Z</atom:updated>
    <at:by><atom:name>James</atom:name></at:by>
    <at:comment>comment spam</at:comment>
</at:deleted-entry>

Some will probably have the same question about the atom:updated: is
it the date when the entry was deleted or the atom:updated value
before deletion?

Some will probably ask whether then atom:id is the one of the at:deleted-=
entry=85



But now that you're having something looking more and more like an
atom:entry, how about just adding an at:deleted to an atom:entry? and
integrating the at:by and at:comment inside the pub:control in a more
generic way to provide edit comments? (issue: pub:control is specific
to the APP)

<!-- before deletion, in APP context -->
<atom:entry>
    <atom:title>=85</atom:title>
    <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id>
    <atom:summary>=85</atom:summary>
    <atom:updated>2006-01-25T10:10:10Z</atom:updated>
    <atom:link rel=3D"edit" href=3D"=85" />
</atom:entry>

<!-- after deletion -->
<atom:entry>
    <atom:title>=85</atom:title>
    <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id>
    <atom:summary>=85</atom:summary>
<!-- the atom:updated is the date of the deletion, as it's unlikely
that the entry will change after that -->
    <atom:updated>2006-01-27T12:12:12Z</atom:updated>
    <del:deleted>
        <del:by><atom:name>Thomas</atom:name></del:by>
        <del:comment>comment spam</del:comment>
    </del:deleted>
<!-- the link[@rel=3D"edit"] has disappeared -->
</atom:entry>

The only drawback =96a priori=96 of this solution is that it means
updating the atom:updated value of the atom:entry, which will bring
the entry to the attention of the user if the reader doesn't support
the del:* extension=85 not really what was intended isn't it? (however,
it's arguable: should a deletion be silent? how about adding a
del:when in the del:deleted? the atom:updated would then continue to
serve its role: whether to bring the entry to the user's attention)

Just thinking out loud=85

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 19:26:14 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2duv-0004pW-QI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:26:14 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08468
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:24:39 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S0HhwA003382;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0S0HhL4003381;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S0HgjO003375
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so679593wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:41 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=OSNXfVVgWHRjZiEtVuOvClgu9bwBijsfzX437s2DJtlnNgEzaUQuz1xyrXfZB838M8Q80rYjbZmSSh7y3C8CmfdXIAmj+22u0QWoCffIGzxZW+uCO3PTGxZ+bGuxyDPCRM7066MLYLQBoC3heOaeGJCxl+wOhMtulNCGtvBlv8s=
Received: by 10.54.69.11 with SMTP id r11mr4105625wra;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 27sm6977232wrl.2006.01.27.16.17.40;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DAB802.2020105@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:17:06 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Feed License Draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Just an editorial clean up of the draft. No significant technical 
changes.  This draft should now be considered complete.  I've stumbled 
across a number of feeds in the wild using the extension and know of at 
least one blog vendor and one feed reader with plans to implement.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-feed-license-05.txt

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 19:27:39 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2dwJ-0005UF-OB
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:27:39 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08690
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:26:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S0Kwej003524;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0S0KwOh003523;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S0KvPj003517
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so679982wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:57 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=objqrnEHSOAHLZFBzC6WiFYQZN6/nOo0vPtBG09kaAbONbn8r9r27X9lEwGnhvGPMd95r6XKnP19xRezX5TW4Qcjb9hWLpFWGs0c0DZjndoJOL1K0vaEpQ9XXiOtGRg+dafb/SZCaJWaH1t/s90O1aFXm7jofhdcIg/pSYETUIc=
Received: by 10.54.80.5 with SMTP id d5mr4170552wrb;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 26sm4750059wrl.2006.01.27.16.20.56;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:56 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DAB8E6.30702@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:20:54 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Feed Rank Extension
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Editorial and minor technical updates.  Should still be considered 
primarily experimental but stable.  There will be no further updates 
unless necessary for interop or implementation. I know of at least one 
vendor with plans to implement.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-feed-index-05.txt

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 22:35:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2gsS-0005oM-1G
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:35:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20479
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:34:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S3SlLU012869;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0S3SlcG012868;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S3Sk3P012862
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so697862wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:46 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=RN8qUx9Da6uyq6Ilmw0Pm8MGk3pNDrd25MiVuKCd+1UzrqyMpziEiFwuv/ERHbFjrbTO6cEmPdgDL2AL/kQZ3zsuQUTOBBEvqUPOrtM0UWr5qzMG+uv1dCnjhOdxYVy01KkerdXhfCj4m4h2aTCVNv8Uid+kn35uFSr/1yfl5pU=
Received: by 10.54.127.3 with SMTP id z3mr4710497wrc;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 27sm7286226wrl.2006.01.27.19.28.44;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DAE4EA.1090003@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:28:42 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com> <a9699fd20601271453k2fab6151t@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601271453k2fab6151t@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id WAA20479




Thomas Broyer wrote:
> But now that you're having something looking more and more like an
> atom:entry, how about just adding an at:deleted to an atom:entry? and
> integrating the at:by and at:comment inside the pub:control in a more
> generic way to provide edit comments? (issue: pub:control is specific
> to the APP)
>=20

I knew this would come up ;-)

> <!-- before deletion, in APP context -->
> <atom:entry>
>     <atom:title>=85</atom:title>
>     <atom:id>tag:example.org,2006:someentry</atom:id>
>     <atom:summary>=85</atom:summary>
>     <atom:updated>2006-01-25T10:10:10Z</atom:updated>
>     <atom:link rel=3D"edit" href=3D"=85" />
> </atom:entry>
>=20

The challenge with this is that after the item is deleted, it's quite=20
likely that you won't have enough data still hanging around to meet the=20
minimum content requirements of an atom entry.  Also, given that readers=20
that don't understand the tombstone extension are required to ignore it,=20
all they'd likely end up seeing is just another Atom entry, potentially=20
with empty content, an empty title, no author, a link that doesn't point=20
anywhere, etc.  If I subscribe to the feed after entries have been=20
deleted, I'll end up with a bunch of meaningless, contentless entries.=20
That sucks.

> The only drawback =96a priori=96 of this solution is that it means
> updating the atom:updated value of the atom:entry, which will bring
> the entry to the attention of the user if the reader doesn't support
> the del:* extension=85 not really what was intended isn't it? (however,

heh... note to self: read the whole note before starting the response.  ;=
-)

> it's arguable: should a deletion be silent? how about adding a
> del:when in the del:deleted? the atom:updated would then continue to
> serve its role: whether to bring the entry to the user's attention)
>=20

Personally I'd prefer that the atom:entry would just go away=20
completely... and replaced with a deleted-entry.  That way, they'd be=20
invisible to dumb clients and smart clients could just do the right thing.

Everything else makes sense (e.g. keeping by, when and comment in the=20
tombstone namespace).  The id element would always be the id of the=20
entry that was deleted.

Which leaves us with...

<del:deleted-entry>
   <atom:id>...</atom:id>
   <del:when>...</del:when>
   <del:by>...</del:by>
   <del:comment>...</del:comment>
</del:deleted-entry>

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 23:17:25 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2hWe-0004LD-NI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:17:24 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22781
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:15:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S4BVwL015950;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:11:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0S4BVW5015949;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:11:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S4BVex015943
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:11:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:11:31 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV4279D22373F2E5D899580BE170@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.98.102 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Sat, 28 Jan 2006 04:11:30 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.98.102]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com> <a9699fd20601271453k2fab6151t@mail.gmail.com> <43DAE4EA.1090003@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 04:11:22 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="Windows-1252";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2006 04:11:31.0089 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB0DF010:01C623C0]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


James M Snell wrote:
> Which leaves us with...
>
> <del:deleted-entry>
>   <atom:id>...</atom:id>
>   <del:when>...</del:when>
>   <del:by>...</del:by>
>   <del:comment>...</del:comment>
> </del:deleted-entry>

I think I've probably mentioned this before, but FWIW I preferred the id and 
date as attributes since that's easier for me to parse. More compact too. I 
don't know which is technically more correct, but if you can't decide one 
way or the other and you're looking for votes, you now know my preference.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 27 23:28:26 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F2hhJ-0000QV-Vz
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:28:26 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23924
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:26:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S4NawJ016350;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0S4NaGQ016349;
	Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0S4NZ1H016343
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so757337wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:33 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=ri/BoSAyORoAH5ikvHZ+jICN8z4WVWqvUCIj+U1gXXCsPbQf9RheuWi9Dq8tJC5dnmmXMziP9zqHb0iqTB1I4hhcDPOG55tvPBDzAgyzMUE0bQwVVG1a+3BpNOdAfMVutq+y83AqPCbbNDtuEBHl9ng/xXb9VfqaZH7idfs26q8=
Received: by 10.54.80.8 with SMTP id d8mr4251601wrb;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id g9sm7838028wra.2006.01.27.20.23.31;
        Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:32 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DAF1C2.1080204@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:23:30 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Atom Tombstones Draft
References: <43D942A7.3050708@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EC15C107AAB6762B8C37BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43D972F7.7050603@gmail.com>	 <BAY106-DAV3EA2FB81921C081D23BA6BE140@phx.gbl>	 <43DA82DB.20407@gmail.com> <a9699fd20601271453k2fab6151t@mail.gmail.com> <43DAE4EA.1090003@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV4279D22373F2E5D899580BE170@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV4279D22373F2E5D899580BE170@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I tend to prefer attributes also, but the elements are structurally and 
stylistically more in tune with Atom.  And given the by and comment 
elements (which I know you don't particularly have a need for), having 
id and when as elements doesn't add any significant level of additional 
parsing difficulty.  Either way, your preference is noted.  Let's see 
how others weigh in on it and see how it goes.

James Holderness wrote:
> 
> James M Snell wrote:
>> Which leaves us with...
>>
>> <del:deleted-entry>
>>   <atom:id>...</atom:id>
>>   <del:when>...</del:when>
>>   <del:by>...</del:by>
>>   <del:comment>...</del:comment>
>> </del:deleted-entry>
> 
> I think I've probably mentioned this before, but FWIW I preferred the id 
> and date as attributes since that's easier for me to parse. More compact 
> too. I don't know which is technically more correct, but if you can't 
> decide one way or the other and you're looking for votes, you now know 
> my preference.
> 
> Regards
> James
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 29 11:03:27 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3F1R-0005pr-Dl
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:03:27 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07023
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:01:50 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0TFl4vC003829;
	Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0TFl4an003828;
	Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.194])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0TFl361003821
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from danny.ayers@gmail.com)
Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m3so492327uge
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:02 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=Z9NbKl9U7Dqop5vgj5pQIez4dFlyzDZ6oo4vn3UFFQGLAFmplAHAj6cegyPH2biGL0ceh+wdkWchpjmeKWYVEQH1o+NxDoC0OGX6hYawQ0wYdmTcmD6oawYoHySAvLAsLhVB1eLTvUDMOanG68Oysy0mvm0JVha44inymJolTlY=
Received: by 10.49.20.3 with SMTP id x3mr509940nfi;
        Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.48.246.15 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1f2ed5cd0601290747n16950351l980dca6441195e7@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:47:02 +0100
From: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>
To: atom-owl@googlegroups.com
Subject: Atom2RDF via Universal Feed Parser
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>, chimezie@ogbuji.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0TFl461003823
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


fyi, Chimezie has a blog post [1] including the mapping below between
Atom as interpreted by Mark Pilgrim's UFP (so it'll also work for
anyRSS) to RDF.

The target app is Emeka, an RDF IRC Agent which uses 4Suite/Versa,
though presumably the same approach could be taken with Redland (via
Python binding) or RdfLib for model/persistence. Whatever the RDF API,
it could form the basis of an Atom Store.

At some point it'll probably be a good idea to capture the mapping
from the core Atom constructs (as expressed in Atom/OWL [2]) to the
other vocabs/ontologies used - FOAF, SKOS, DC, presumably through
owl:equivalentClass/owl:equivalentProperty statements.  (APP construct
mappings to follow, when someone's got a bit of time...)

Each entry is an instance of (atomOwl:Entry,rss:item)

    * The URL of the feed -> an instance of atomOwl:Feed
    * Feed - atomOwl:entry -> entries
    * entry (link or id as URI) - rdfs:label,skos:prefLabel,dc:title
-> entry.title
    * entry - dc:description,atomOwl:summary,rdfs:comment -> entry.summary
    * entry,feed - dc:creator, foaf:maker -> foaf:Person
    * entry.author_detail.name -> foaf:name
    * entry.author_detail.email -> foaf:mbox
    * entry.author_detail.href is the URL of the author
    * entries.tags -> skos:Collection
    * entries.tags.label -> skos:prefLabel
    * entries.tags.scheme + entries.tags.term (URI resolution) -> URI
of skos:Concept
    * entry - dc:created,dc:date,atomOwl:published -> entry.published


[1] http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2006-01-28/A_univesal
[2] http://pragmatron.org/trac/file/pragmatron/atom-owl/AtomOwl.n3


--

http://dannyayers.com




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 06:51:33 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3XZE-0008RO-TQ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:51:33 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16457
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:49:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UBihP0039072;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:44:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UBihBF039071;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:44:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UBihhE039065
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:44:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 96355 invoked by uid 17064); 30 Jan 2006 11:44:40 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([192.220.66.168])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; 30 Jan 2006 11:44:40 -0000
In-Reply-To: <1f2ed5cd0601290747n16950351l980dca6441195e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f2ed5cd0601290747n16950351l980dca6441195e7@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <F3C1EE19-5C14-4225-B9B3-DDFE2037F219@bblfish.net>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>, chimezie@ogbuji.net
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: Atom2RDF via Universal Feed Parser
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:44:50 +0100
To: atom-owl@googlegroups.com
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



On 29 Jan 2006, at 16:47, Danny Ayers wrote:

> fyi, Chimezie has a blog post [1] including the mapping below between
> Atom as interpreted by Mark Pilgrim's UFP (so it'll also work for
> anyRSS) to RDF.
>
> [snip]

I don't quite understand what is going on in that blog post.

> At some point it'll probably be a good idea to capture the mapping
> from the core Atom constructs (as expressed in Atom/OWL [2]) to the
> other vocabs/ontologies used - FOAF, SKOS, DC, presumably through
> owl:equivalentClass/owl:equivalentProperty statements.  (APP construct
> mappings to follow, when someone's got a bit of time...)

atom-owl already uses the foaf ontology for foaf:Person construct.
for DC there was some mapping someone made between DC and atom- 
constructs.

There was this wiki page:
http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/PaceEquivalents

My guess is that I could add some inheritance properties to atom-owl.  
Something like:

awol:id rdfs:subclassOf dc:identifier .

we would have to look at this case by case. Also should this be part  
of the main ontology?

Henry Story




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 10:50:47 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3bIj-00005J-Dd
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:50:47 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02150
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:48:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UFgs3U071141;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UFgsYq071140;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.197])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UFgr57071134
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from danny.ayers@gmail.com)
Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k3so969297ugf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:52 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=FFNlFTbsHuQPkNTTC23nylyP7e/l0TIkizxfF2KGhhsxI/Ykb24QV7HOfJCQ/UfJwl4l9ND1QCv13neGRk1P/rxO1RLAnM8CihGKY3/7yB8FYZFn7GADTAHLGbjYDoNAjGgQJJM5wWvtx1ei1SpoktM6IET4XTCkQ2KuQrfNPdY=
Received: by 10.49.92.10 with SMTP id u10mr456095nfl;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.48.246.15 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:42:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:42:51 +0100
From: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Browser behaviour
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0UFgs57071135
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


The mail below is from the WordPress list, they're discussing
including stylesheet references in Atom docs. Have we got anything
like best practices or more palatable workarounds for these
circumstances? (i.e. in addition to using application/atom+xml)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pete Prodoehl <pete.prodoehl@cygnusinteractive.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] XSLT: Sample implementation
To: wp-hackers@lists.automattic.com


David House wrote:
> Some problems:
>
> 2) Atom support isn't there. Firefox and Konqueror (the browsers I
> tested in) get scared off by Atom's mime type and prompt the user to
> download it. They don't recognise it as XML, so they don't transform
> it. We have two options here: give up or serve as text/xml (I guess
> the latter won't be too popular). Really, browsers should recognise
> application/atom+xml as something they can parse as XML and do so.

That's why I eventually gave up using application/rss+xml and switched
to text/xml for RSS. Maybe it's time to do the same for Atom?

Pete




_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@lists.automattic.com
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers


--

http://dannyayers.com




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 10:57:05 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3bOr-0000m0-3C
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:57:05 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02655
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:55:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UFoLIY072222;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:50:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UFoLMc072221;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:50:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from server02.deinternetman.nl (hosted.by.deinternetman.nl [83.98.145.60] (may be forged))
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UFoKbH072207
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:50:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from fora@annevankesteren.nl)
Received: (qmail 11402 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 16:50:12 +0100
Received: from localhost.deinternetman.net (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost.deinternetman.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 16:50:12 +0100
Received: from pat-tdc.opera.com (pat-tdc.opera.com [213.236.208.22]) by
	webmail.annevankesteren.nl (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2006
	16:50:12 +0100
Message-ID: <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:50:12 +0100
From: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>
To: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=UTF-8;
	format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Quoting Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>:
> The mail below is from the WordPress list, they're discussing
> including stylesheet references in Atom docs. Have we got anything
> like best practices or more palatable workarounds for these
> circumstances? (i.e. in addition to using application/atom+xml)

The least they could do is use application/xml. (I'm using that at the
moment...) For the rest, bug browser people about it. Opera, for one, parses
everything +xml as XML.


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 11:30:08 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3bup-0007C6-UD
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:30:08 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05045
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:28:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UGIbwo075572;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:18:37 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UGIbs6075568;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:18:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0UGIZOA075552
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:18:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Jan 2006 16:18:29 -0000
Received: from xdsl-84-44-228-188.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [84.44.228.188]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp036) with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 17:18:29 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:18:30 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Cc: Pete Prodoehl <pete.prodoehl@cygnusinteractive.com>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
Message-ID: <20060130161830.GT2575@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
	Pete Prodoehl <pete.prodoehl@cygnusinteractive.com>
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA05045


* Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com> [2006-01-30 16:50]:
>From: Pete Prodoehl <pete.prodoehl@cygnusinteractive.com>
>
>That's why I eventually gave up using application/rss+xml and
>switched to text/xml for RSS. Maybe it's time to do the same for
>Atom?

Ugh. Why does everyone insist on the `text/xml` albatross? Use
`application/xml`, at the very least.

(Of course, there is no `application/rss+xml` type, but anyway=E2=80=A6)

In any case, -1 on returning feeds with either `/xml` type for
Atom. If it=E2=80=99s really necessary to work around browsers, a better
idea is to return a feed with the generic MIME type only when the
feed is requested with a `?specific_type=3D0` query parameter. Then
autodiscovery links and other stuff can point to the regular URL
served with the proper MIME type, and use of the escaped hatch
can be limited to links a user can actually click on.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 11:33:30 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3by6-000823-1e
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:33:30 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05274
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:31:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UGO6Yb077166;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UGO6ER077165;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UGO6Yq077159
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:06 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i11so1246072wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:06 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=mnsrRVEu2Lw3bF6j+3kZCfCLDKr7rRyOFYxplDQPe8Oo4bw/CLKrB/qwUJ6PXNeYtlQYvGpb5xwZuav1zXKrPyQa370i+qtX3rFA+9+A1/ysiByV1Qc3yelRFTjz7dIWVeW+B6SBgD+KejE2zLGy4Gm827d2XY1oUvX3+OseCxo=
Received: by 10.65.116.2 with SMTP id t2mr1912876qbm;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q13sm3489396qbq.2006.01.30.08.24.04;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:24:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:23:59 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>
CC: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
In-Reply-To: <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


+1. Serving atom up at application/xml is perfectly acceptable and will 
render in the browser. Look at Sam Ruby's feed as an example. 
http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/index.atom

- James

Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> 
> Quoting Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>:
>> The mail below is from the WordPress list, they're discussing
>> including stylesheet references in Atom docs. Have we got anything
>> like best practices or more palatable workarounds for these
>> circumstances? (i.e. in addition to using application/atom+xml)
> 
> The least they could do is use application/xml. (I'm using that at the
> moment...) For the rest, bug browser people about it. Opera, for one, 
> parses
> everything +xml as XML.
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 12:21:08 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3ciC-0002EN-3m
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:21:08 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10116
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:19:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UHD8KB083645;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:13:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UHD82H083644;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:13:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UHD7bJ083633
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:13:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 41556 invoked by uid 17064); 30 Jan 2006 17:13:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([192.220.66.168])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; 30 Jan 2006 17:13:07 -0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV24009A18321E7904311803BE320@phx.gbl>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu> <8E142B29-FC98-4F67-983B-A397E969489A@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV24009A18321E7904311803BE320@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <3C818705-BC25-4E39-A556-262B0F3E2EB5@bblfish.net>
Cc: atom-syntax Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        bloged <users@bloged.dev.java.net>,
        Phipps Simon <Simon.Phipps@Sun.COM>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:13:17 +0100
To: atom-owl@googlegroups.com
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Sorry for being away for a while. I am back on this issue. We had  
narrowed in on this quite well. It should be RFC time real soon.


On 24 Dec 2005, at 07:25, James Holderness wrote:
> Henry Story wrote:
>> I think you have not quite grasped the point my graph was trying to
>> make. Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough. The graph
>> represents a feed with three entries A, B and C.
>> B and C share the same id. C has an updated time stamp that is after
>> B so C is an update of B.
>
> If you went with my link+hreflang method, this could be handled  
> with an additional date attribute in the link, where the date  
> signified the time at which the translation was valid. For example:

Yes. Quite right.

> <entry>
>  <id>tag:eg.com,2005:/en/atom03</id>
>  <link hreflang="fr" x:id="tag:eg.com,2005:/fr/atom03"  
> x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02Z"/>
> </entry>
> <entry>
>  <id>tag:eg.com,2005:/fr/atom03</id>
>  <updated>2005-11-13T18:30:02Z</updated>
>  <link />
> </entry>
> <entry>
>  <id>tag:eg.com,2005:/fr/atom03</id>
>  <updated>2005-11-15T18:30:02Z</updated>
>  <link />
> </entry>

Presumably one would need to add an x:feed="http://mydomain.com/feed"  
attribute for translations of entries that appear in other feeds.

> I've left off the obvious elements and attributes for brevity, but  
> you get the idea.

yes I do.

Henry





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 12:57:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3dHP-0001md-3K
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:31 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13119
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:55:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UHhHaT087733;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:43:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UHhHWY087732;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:43:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UHhHrC087724
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:43:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 55521 invoked by uid 17064); 30 Jan 2006 17:43:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([192.220.66.168])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; 30 Jan 2006 17:43:14 -0000
In-Reply-To: <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-17--725468571
Message-Id: <096AC1DA-1150-46AE-88F4-C5A781A7233B@bblfish.net>
Cc: atom-syntax Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        bloged <users@bloged.dev.java.net>,
        Phipps Simon <Simon.Phipps@Sun.COM>
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: todo: add language encoding information]
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:43:24 +0100
To: atom-owl@googlegroups.com, Elliotte Harold <elharo@metalab.unc.edu>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>



--Apple-Mail-17--725468571
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 23 Dec 2005, at 12:37, Elliotte Harold wrote:

>
> Henry Story wrote:
>
>> The problem as I explained a little quickly in my mail yesterday,  
>> is that you are relating a entry and an id. Because there can be  
>> any number of entries with the same id it won't be clear which  
>> entry is the translation.
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is technically relevant or not, but in the  
> case at hand neither entry is the translation, or alternately both  
> are. Legally both are equally valid. This is customary in bi/ 
> multilingual jurisdictions and international treaties. For example,  
> article 133 of the Geneva convention states:
>
> The present Convention is established in English and in French.  
> Both texts are equally authentic. The Swiss Federal Council shall  
> arrange for official translations of the Convention to be made in  
> the Russian and Spanish languages.
>
> In that case, I suppose, neither English nor French is a  
> translation but  Russian and Spanish are.

Just re-reading your mail I think you make a good point that perhaps  
"translation" is the wrong word to use. We would like something more  
abstract such as "otherLanguageVersion". This made me think that the  
word we want is "alternate". And then looking at the spec again I  
found the following:

[[
4.2.7.4.  The "hreflang" Attribute

    The "hreflang" attribute's content describes the language of the
    resource pointed to by the href attribute.  When used together with
    the rel="alternate", it implies a translated version of the entry.
    Link elements MAY have an hreflang attribute, whose value MUST be a
    language tag [RFC3066].
]]


So don't we already have what Simon needs? By adding:

        <link href="http://example.org/2003/12/13/atom03/fr"  
hreflang="fr"/>

in our example entry we get

     <entry>
        <title>Atom-Powered Robots Run Amok</title>
        <link href="http://example.org/2003/12/13/atom03"/>
        <link href="http://example.org/2003/12/13/atom03/fr"  
hreflang="fr"/>
        <id>urn:uuid:1225c695-cfb8-4ebb-aaaa-80da344efa6a</id>
        <updated>2003-12-13T18:30:02Z</updated>
        <summary>Some text.</summary>
      </entry>

Using my previous diagram, we just have a alternate relation from an  
entry to
a piece of content as illustrated by the orange line here:

  
--Apple-Mail-17--725468571
Content-Type: application/pdf;
	x-mac-type=70646620;
	x-unix-mode=0644;
	x-mac-hide-extension=yes;
	name="translation-problem-3.pdf"
Content-Disposition: inline;
	filename=translation-problem-3.pdf
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--Apple-Mail-17--725468571
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


The alternate relation (like all the other relations shown above) are  
a little more complex that the simple arrows shown here as they can  
take language arguments for example.

So had I missed something previously? Or have I just forgotten  
something important?

Henry Story


>
> -- 
> Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo@metalab.unc.edu
> XML in a Nutshell 3rd Edition Just Published!
> http://www.cafeconleche.org/books/xian3/
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596007647/cafeaulaitA/ 
> ref=nosim


--Apple-Mail-17--725468571--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 14:16:00 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3eVK-0000qr-S3
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:16:00 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18673
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:14:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UJ8h8e098821;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:43 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UJ8hIg098820;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UJ8bFa098803
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:37 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175])
	by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UJ8bSD011801
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:08:37 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ITX00G0167AVN00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:08:37 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [192.168.102.100] ([154.20.170.13])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ITX00G876ICZSB0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon,
 30 Jan 2006 12:08:36 -0700 (MST)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:41 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
In-reply-to: <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com>
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Cc: Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>,
        Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-id: <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
 <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
 <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:23 AM, James M Snell wrote:

>
> +1. Serving atom up at application/xml is perfectly acceptable

It is *not*.  Atom has a registered Internet media type (application/ 
atom+xml); using anything else is a bug. -Tim




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 15:23:26 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3fYc-0007p9-Dj
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:23:26 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24743
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:21:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKGQQH007894;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UKGQZJ007893;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKGPVf007887
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so1100261nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:25 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=Z6czv8sfUky8n/BXVCUtijXJFav1ytR/tHNR0dP/pULC/UlR9Hwbs5kid+PAFQLbagMRgvnouBy5CWREpHLDEBvL/lgJhuSVVZ4vb7LhYZnaGV5ZVs7RLyNK9oXQRas1f1I1kdiyiO3JIGAU523CRl54KoOCzL7RxIszh5co1VU=
Received: by 10.37.20.13 with SMTP id x13mr1475578nzi;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.133.16 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601301216n6a1e0fa4i@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:16:25 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0UKGQVf007888
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA24743


> David House wrote:
> > 2) Atom support isn't there. Firefox and Konqueror (the browsers I
> > tested in) get scared off by Atom's mime type and prompt the user to
> > download it. They don't recognise it as XML, so they don't transform
> > it. We have two options here: give up or serve as text/xml (I guess
> > the latter won't be too popular). Really, browsers should recognise
> > application/atom+xml as something they can parse as XML and do so.

Why should Atom be "parsed as XML" by browsers?

If people fear that users come onto their site through a search engine
and arrive on an Atom feed, so they want their feeds to be shown in
the browser (in a fancy way if possible) so that users won't be feared
and go away (and if possible click on a link to lead them to the
site's browser-dedicated pages); those people should just use a
rel=3Dnofollow" on the "direct links" to their feeds.

So I'd say:
 - <link rel=3D"whatever" type=3D"application/atom+xml; type=3Dfeed" />* =
in
the page header for autodiscovery
 - eventually <a rel=3D"nofollow"></a> in the page body to allow users
to more easily subscribe in external readers (either via mime-type
dispatching or "copy link address"/paste)

And, follow those guidelines:
http://www.scottfrancis.com/blog/2006/01/21/ui-updates/

* oops, sorry, there's no "type" parameter to the application/atom+xml
type=85 so let's say <link rel=3D"alternate" type=3D"application/atom+xml=
"
/>

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 15:54:53 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3g33-0005B3-Gm
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:54:53 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26865
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:53:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKlIjd011552;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:47:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UKlI0P011551;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:47:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKlHxK011533
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:47:17 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [10.169.186.51] (sera-10-169-186-51.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.51])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0UKl4l04138;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:47:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DE7B44.3010403@aol.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:47:00 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <a9699fd20601301216n6a1e0fa4i@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a9699fd20601301216n6a1e0fa4i@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Thomas Broyer wrote:

> ...
>
> (and if possible click on a link to lead them to the
>site's browser-dedicated pages); those people should just use a
>rel=nofollow" on the "direct links" to their feeds.
>  
>
"I don't think that means what you think it means".  At least, if you 
mean for search engines not to follow the link.  If you just want the 
PageRank of the destination feed (?) to be unaffected by the PageRank of 
the source URL, then yeah, I guess...





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 16:05:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3gDM-0001TM-09
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:05:32 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29840
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:03:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKvwle012586;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UKvw8G012585;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UKvvmv012570
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [10.169.186.51] (sera-10-169-186-51.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.51])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0UKvBl05062;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:57:13 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
CC: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>,
        Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>,
        Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Tim Bray wrote:

>
>
> On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:23 AM, James M Snell wrote:
>
>>
>> +1. Serving atom up at application/xml is perfectly acceptable
>
>
> It is *not*.  Atom has a registered Internet media type (application/ 
> atom+xml); using anything else is a bug. -Tim
>
Here's my 'best effort' suggestion that we're looking to implement at AOL:

(1) All links from within feeds go to a resource of type 
"application/atom+xml".
(2)  Header links (<link rel...>) in web pages to to a resource as in #1.
(3) Feed links displayed in web pages, which a user in a web browser 
might click on, go to a resource of type "application/xml", which 
contains exactly the same XML that would be contained in the Atom feed 
resource of type "application/atom+xml", along with a style sheet that 
causes said page to be rendered in a browser with subscribe links 
(pointing to resource #1).  The web UI tries to guide users to subscribe 
buttons first, before showing them a raw feed URL.

In other words, the application/xml content is a fallback for when 
users, despite our best efforts, end up looking at XML content inside a 
web browser.  I'd also be happy to make this behaviior browser-dependent 
so that we serve application/atom+xml to browsers which will display it 
inline with a style sheet, if there are any.

This means that users might possibly end up subscribing to something of 
type application/xml if they copy and paste URL #3... but we could also 
make this client dependent so that, for example, everything other than 
known web browsers get application/atom+xml.  Not sure about that as 
it's changing the MIME type, but I think it's changing it for a good 
reason (working around what I think is a browser problem).

Comments welcomed.

-John




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 16:22:07 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3gTP-00085B-Bl
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:22:07 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04438
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:20:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ULEsT6014506;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:54 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ULEsZx014505;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.199])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ULEr0t014498
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:53 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so846825wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:52 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=QQ5UO3Jz1zvjuwaoO0tehHYygLOz5CcjjoOzsPQ+LKi4VwQXtJPkQSRWx8YwJ5qjOXtgPRYc/K7+ZtyRC12YCyMEOlkdSd6P6debD32lK3K6QEMsU8xqZAbbXC8qelzPna7ISPVx+ddkAg53Sql0e6QqsRYBcuGO30cnzSAF/Cg=
Received: by 10.65.214.15 with SMTP id r15mr2114004qbq;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.106? ( [67.181.222.86])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e17sm3654882qba.2006.01.30.13.14.50;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DE81C6.60803@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:14:46 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com> <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
In-Reply-To: <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



John Panzer wrote:
> Tim Bray wrote:
>> It is *not*.  Atom has a registered Internet media type (application/ 
>> atom+xml); using anything else is a bug. -Tim
>>

It's either a bug or an intentional downgrade designed to meet practical 
requirements before strict technical requirements.  I agree that Atom 
feeds SHOULD be served up with atom+xml.

In a strictly practical sense, what John describes here seems reasonable 
  (even if not ideal).

- James

> Here's my 'best effort' suggestion that we're looking to implement at AOL:
> 
> (1) All links from within feeds go to a resource of type 
> "application/atom+xml".
> (2)  Header links (<link rel...>) in web pages to to a resource as in #1.
> (3) Feed links displayed in web pages, which a user in a web browser 
> might click on, go to a resource of type "application/xml", which 
> contains exactly the same XML that would be contained in the Atom feed 
> resource of type "application/atom+xml", along with a style sheet that 
> causes said page to be rendered in a browser with subscribe links 
> (pointing to resource #1).  The web UI tries to guide users to subscribe 
> buttons first, before showing them a raw feed URL.
> 
> In other words, the application/xml content is a fallback for when 
> users, despite our best efforts, end up looking at XML content inside a 
> web browser.  I'd also be happy to make this behaviior browser-dependent 
> so that we serve application/atom+xml to browsers which will display it 
> inline with a style sheet, if there are any.
> 
> This means that users might possibly end up subscribing to something of 
> type application/xml if they copy and paste URL #3... but we could also 
> make this client dependent so that, for example, everything other than 
> known web browsers get application/atom+xml.  Not sure about that as 
> it's changing the MIME type, but I think it's changing it for a good 
> reason (working around what I think is a browser problem).
> 
> Comments welcomed.
> 
> -John
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 16:48:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3gt8-0008GT-BC
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:48:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10836
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:46:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ULh3Fp017016;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:43:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0ULh2W4017015;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:43:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ULh20A017009
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:43:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.108.183])
	by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0ULh18u002020
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:43:01 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9 2005))
 id <0ITX00A01DKZ1L00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:43:01 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [192.168.102.100] ([154.20.170.13])
 by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep  9
 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ITX008B9DNO8IJ0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon,
 30 Jan 2006 14:43:01 -0700 (MST)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:43:05 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
In-reply-to: <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
To: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
Cc: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>,
        Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>,
        Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-id: <454877A9-F9E1-4C83-AA90-6D5F7BFABCF7@Sun.COM>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
 <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl>
 <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
 <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:57 PM, John Panzer wrote:

> In other words, the application/xml content is a fallback for when  
> users, despite our best efforts, end up looking at XML content  
> inside a web browser.  I'd also be happy to make this behaviior  
> browser-dependent so that we serve application/atom+xml to browsers  
> which will display it inline with a style sheet, if there are any.
>
> This means that users might possibly end up subscribing to  
> something of type application/xml if they copy and paste URL #3...  
> but we could also make this client dependent so that, for example,  
> everything other than known web browsers get application/atom+xml.   
> Not sure about that as it's changing the MIME type, but I think  
> it's changing it for a good reason (working around what I think is  
> a browser problem).

Seems sensible. -Tim




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 18:15:32 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3iFA-0005B0-KZ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:15:32 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22547
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:13:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UN9CYQ029818;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0UN9CPa029817;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0UN9BnW029803
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:11 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so1135179nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:11 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=RO6vu2thFtfYpIA6V9HO9S62iWA/bbpDSaeoKWBXChysLNFXNw+va74rdmkA7PxloLUMoX1qGmwnYEPScgV4/5VMT9XPLNJUPlcwjhgbHX523P9YuvjHGb6KHVSp80Wi37/nQy5leDXeePVjIqqWImrQT2m4zfKTvKm3i/3kDaw=
Received: by 10.36.148.13 with SMTP id v13mr5419019nzd;
        Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.133.16 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:09:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20601301509y5631229dn@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:09:11 +0100
From: Thomas Broyer <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <43DE7B44.3010403@aol.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a9699fd20601301216n6a1e0fa4i@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43DE7B44.3010403@aol.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by above.proper.com id k0UN9CnW029804
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


2006/1/30, John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>:
> > (and if possible click on a link to lead them to the
> >site's browser-dedicated pages); those people should just use a
> >rel=nofollow" on the "direct links" to their feeds.
> >
> "I don't think that means what you think it means".  At least, if you
> mean for search engines not to follow the link.  If you just want the
> PageRank of the destination feed (?) to be unaffected by the PageRank of
> the source URL, then yeah, I guess...

Right!

How about robots.txt?
http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/exclusion.html#robotstxt

--
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 20:00:36 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3jsq-0006Ts-FJ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:00:36 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA28509
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:59:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V0smMg043915;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:54:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V0smj8043914;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:54:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from vanadium.sabren.com (vanadium.sabren.com [67.19.173.84])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V0slSj043900
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:54:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from rubys@intertwingly.net)
Received: from [192.168.1.111] (cpe-066-057-027-065.nc.res.rr.com [66.57.27.65])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by vanadium.sabren.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k0V0sdPH020418;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:54:43 -0500
Message-ID: <43DEB54E.30905@intertwingly.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:54:38 -0500
From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
CC: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>,
        Anne van Kesteren <fora@annevankesteren.nl>,
        Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
In-Reply-To: <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Tim Bray wrote:
> 
> On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:23 AM, James M Snell wrote:
> 
>> +1. Serving atom up at application/xml is perfectly acceptable
> 
> It is *not*.  Atom has a registered Internet media type (application/
> atom+xml); using anything else is a bug. -Tim

I'm not sure I would stand on principle for that one if I were you.
Xhtml also has a registered Internet media type (application/xhtml+xml),
but many people (<grin>) serve up their xhtml pages as text/html.

I'd like to take a survey of what web browsers will accept and what they
indicate they prefer.

http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/AcceptHeaders

Based on the results, I will gladly start sending my feed at
application/atom+xml to those browsers that *don't* indicate a
preference for application/xml.

As well as make a change to the Feed Validator to send such a header itself.

- Sam Ruby





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 20:23:15 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3kEk-0005Lu-OX
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:23:15 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29839
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:21:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V1Hd6U046947;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V1HdL8046946;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav9.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.81])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V1HcwY046939
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:17:38 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:17:34 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV9FFAA539A521DD15978B8BE080@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.95.217 by BAY106-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:17:34 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.95.217]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "atom-syntax Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        "bloged" <users@bloged.dev.java.net>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu> <096AC1DA-1150-46AE-88F4-C5A781A7233B@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: todo: add language encoding information]
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:17:26 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2006 01:17:34.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DE21BC0:01C62604]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Henry Story wrote:
> Just re-reading your mail I think you make a good point that perhaps
> "translation" is the wrong word to use. We would like something more
> abstract such as "otherLanguageVersion". This made me think that the
> word we want is "alternate". And then looking at the spec again I
> found the following:
>
> [[
> 4.2.7.4.  The "hreflang" Attribute

This was the first thing I suggested...

"If you want to link the various translations together you can add one or 
more link elements at the top of the feed with rel="alternate" and hreflang 
set to the language of the alternate feed. If you're feeling really 
enthusiastic you can include alternate links pointing to the translated html 
pages for each entry too." [1]

Regards
James

[1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg17609.html 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 20:27:52 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3kJE-0006el-6j
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:27:52 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA00139
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:26:11 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V1OLYC047642;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:24:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V1OLoC047641;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:24:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id k0V1OJNS047627
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:24:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 31 Jan 2006 01:24:13 -0000
Received: from xdsl-84-44-228-188.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [84.44.228.188]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 02:24:13 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:24:11 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
Message-ID: <20060131012411.GD2575@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id UAA00139


* Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM> [2006-01-30 20:15]:
>On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:23 AM, James M Snell wrote:
>>+1. Serving atom up at application/xml is perfectly acceptable
>
>It is *not*.  Atom has a registered Internet media type
>(application/ atom+xml); using anything else is a bug. -Tim

I don=E2=80=99t know that you can defend that in any way.

I see no grounds on which it can be argued that serving an XML
document as `application/xml` is wrong. Atom is XML. Hence it
cannot be said that serving Atom as `application/xml` is wrong.

It=E2=80=99s not preferrable =E2=80=93 no question about that.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 21:33:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3lL3-00077y-BI
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA03855
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:32:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V2RnGa055009;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:27:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V2Rn3g055008;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:27:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav23.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.95])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V2RnEB055002
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:27:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:27:49 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.95.217 by BAY106-DAV23.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:27:48 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.95.217]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "atom-syntax Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        "bloged" <users@bloged.dev.java.net>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu> <8E142B29-FC98-4F67-983B-A397E969489A@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV24009A18321E7904311803BE320@phx.gbl> <3C818705-BC25-4E39-A556-262B0F3E2EB5@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:27:40 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2006 02:27:49.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDB63710:01C6260D]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Henry Story wrote:
> Presumably one would need to add an x:feed="http://mydomain.com/feed" 
> attribute for translations of entries that appear in other feeds.

Actually I was thinking just a regular href and type. For example:

<link type="application/atom+xml"
  href="http://mydomain.com/feed"
  hreflang="fr"
  x:id="french_entry_id"
  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />

I'm not sure how valid that is considering a client that didn't understand 
this extension would consider the full feed to be an alternative for that 
one particular entry which doesn't seem right.

Personally I would have preferred using a fragment identifier. So the above 
example would look something like this:

<link type="application/atom+xml"
  href="http://mydomain.com/feed#french_entry_id"
  hreflang="fr"
  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />

And a link to an entry within the same feed could be done with a fragment 
only uri, like this:

<link type="application/atom+xml"
  href="#french_entry_id"
  hreflang="fr"
  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />

But from what I can make out, this sort of thing would only be valid if 
atom:id was defined to be an ID attribute which would assumedly require an 
Atom DTD.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 30 22:03:21 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3lnb-0005wM-JH
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:03:21 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA05656
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:01:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V2vMUn064949;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:57:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V2vMps064948;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:57:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav22.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.94])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V2vL8w064942
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:57:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:57:21 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl>
Received: from 81.179.95.217 by BAY106-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:57:21 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [81.179.95.217]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com> <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:57:13 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2006 02:57:21.0392 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E114F00:01C62612]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


David House wrote:
> We have two options here: give up or serve as text/xml (I guess
> the latter won't be too popular). Really, browsers should recognise
> application/atom+xml as something they can parse as XML and do so.

I can't understand why so many people want to prevent the browser from 
passing Atom feeds on to the user's registered feed reader. When a browser 
encounters an audio/mpeg link what does it do? It passes it on to the user's 
media player. It doesn't try to display a binary dump of the file, or a 
waveform image. That would just be stupid. But for some reason people think 
it makes more sense to display a page full of XML to the user rather than 
letting them view the feed in their aggregator. I just don't get it.

Admittedly if the user doesn't have an aggregator installed, or their 
aggregator hasn't registered the application/atom+xml media type, then a 
save dialog is not particularly useful. At that point it may be more useful 
for the browser to try and display the XML inline. But that is a fallback 
situation that should only be considered if there isn't a registered handler 
for the Atom media type.

John Panzer wrote:
> (1) All links from within feeds go to a resource of type 
> "application/atom+xml".
> (2)  Header links (<link rel...>) in web pages to to a resource as in #1.
> (3) Feed links displayed in web pages, which a user in a web browser might 
> click on, go to a resource of type "application/xml", which contains 
> exactly the same XML that would be contained in the Atom feed resource of 
> type "application/atom+xml", along with a style sheet that causes said 
> page to be rendered in a browser with subscribe links (pointing to 
> resource #1).  The web UI tries to guide users to subscribe buttons first, 
> before showing them a raw feed URL.

Now this I can understand. Not too scary for users that don't have an 
aggregator installed, but you still provide a clickable, subscribable link 
for users that do.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 31 00:40:01 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3oF8-0008Jv-TE
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:40:01 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15493
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:38:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V5Xqwg084528;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0V5XqUt084527;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mcom.com (c3po.aoltw.net [64.236.137.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0V5XpML084520
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:51 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jpanzer@aol.net)
Received: from [10.169.186.51] (sera-10-169-186-51.nscp.aoltw.net [10.169.186.51])
	by mcom.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id k0V5XUl29831;
	Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <43DEF6AC.4010701@aol.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:33:32 -0800
From: John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Browser behaviour
References: <1f2ed5cd0601300742w4dd89ebep5674250fa37d68f7@mail.gmail.com> <20060130165012.gau533s2yhmsocck@webmail.annevankesteren.nl> <43DE3D9F.2080606@gmail.com> <A1741D27-94C8-4252-9DD5-6EFCAE22354D@sun.com> <43DE7DA9.4070809@aol.net> <BAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------060808090508000704050002"
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060808090508000704050002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

James Holderness wrote:

>
> David House wrote:
>
>> We have two options here: give up or serve as text/xml (I guess
>> the latter won't be too popular). Really, browsers should recognise
>> application/atom+xml as something they can parse as XML and do so.
>
>
> I can't understand why so many people want to prevent the browser from 
> passing Atom feeds on to the user's registered feed reader. When a 
> browser encounters an audio/mpeg link what does it do? It passes it on 
> to the user's media player. It doesn't try to display a binary dump of 
> the file, or a waveform image. That would just be stupid. But for some 
> reason people think it makes more sense to display a page full of XML 
> to the user rather than letting them view the feed in their 
> aggregator. I just don't get it.

http://feeds.*feedburner*.com/Abstractioneer

>
> Admittedly if the user doesn't have an aggregator installed, or their 
> aggregator hasn't registered the application/atom+xml media type, then 
> a save dialog is not particularly useful. At that point it may be more 
> useful for the browser to try and display the XML inline. But that is 
> a fallback situation that should only be considered if there isn't a 
> registered handler for the Atom media type.

100% agreed.  I think this is what people are actually asking for -- run 
the handler if registered, if not check to see if it's something the 
browser might be able to usefully display (xml with stylesheet, for 
example!) and only if that fails, offer to download.

>
> John Panzer wrote:
>
>> (1) All links from within feeds go to a resource of type 
>> "application/atom+xml".
>> (2)  Header links (<link rel...>) in web pages to to a resource as in 
>> #1.
>> (3) Feed links displayed in web pages, which a user in a web browser 
>> might click on, go to a resource of type "application/xml", which 
>> contains exactly the same XML that would be contained in the Atom 
>> feed resource of type "application/atom+xml", along with a style 
>> sheet that causes said page to be rendered in a browser with 
>> subscribe links (pointing to resource #1).  The web UI tries to guide 
>> users to subscribe buttons first, before showing them a raw feed URL.
>
>
> Now this I can understand. Not too scary for users that don't have an 
> aggregator installed, but you still provide a clickable, subscribable 
> link for users that do.
>
> Regards
> James
>


--------------060808090508000704050002
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
James Holderness wrote:
<blockquote cite="midBAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl"
 type="cite"><br>
David House wrote:
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">We have two options here: give up or serve as
text/xml (I guess
    <br>
the latter won't be too popular). Really, browsers should recognise
    <br>
application/atom+xml as something they can parse as XML and do so.
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
I can't understand why so many people want to prevent the browser from
passing Atom feeds on to the user's registered feed reader. When a
browser encounters an audio/mpeg link what does it do? It passes it on
to the user's media player. It doesn't try to display a binary dump of
the file, or a waveform image. That would just be stupid. But for some
reason people think it makes more sense to display a page full of XML
to the user rather than letting them view the feed in their aggregator.
I just don't get it.
  <br>
</blockquote>
<small class="search-context"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://feeds">http://feeds</a>.<strong class="search-term">feedburner</strong>.com/Abstractioneer</small>
<blockquote cite="midBAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl"
 type="cite"><br>
Admittedly if the user doesn't have an aggregator installed, or their
aggregator hasn't registered the application/atom+xml media type, then
a save dialog is not particularly useful. At that point it may be more
useful for the browser to try and display the XML inline. But that is a
fallback situation that should only be considered if there isn't a
registered handler for the Atom media type.
  <br>
</blockquote>
100% agreed.&nbsp; I think this is what people are actually asking for --
run the handler if registered, if not check to see if it's something
the browser might be able to usefully display (xml with stylesheet, for
example!) and only if that fails, offer to download.<br>
<blockquote cite="midBAY106-DAV2254E1B86B8C669544D6AEBE080@phx.gbl"
 type="cite"><br>
John Panzer wrote:
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">(1) All links from within feeds go to a
resource of type "application/atom+xml".
    <br>
(2)&nbsp; Header links (&lt;link rel...&gt;) in web pages to to a resource
as in #1.
    <br>
(3) Feed links displayed in web pages, which a user in a web browser
might click on, go to a resource of type "application/xml", which
contains exactly the same XML that would be contained in the Atom feed
resource of type "application/atom+xml", along with a style sheet that
causes said page to be rendered in a browser with subscribe links
(pointing to resource #1).&nbsp; The web UI tries to guide users to
subscribe buttons first, before showing them a raw feed URL.
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
Now this I can understand. Not too scary for users that don't have an
aggregator installed, but you still provide a clickable, subscribable
link for users that do.
  <br>
  <br>
Regards
  <br>
James
  <br>
  <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------060808090508000704050002--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 31 11:02:49 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3xxr-0005d9-JQ
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:02:49 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29090
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:01:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0VFsoJE084461;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:54:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0VFsoi8084460;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:54:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0VFsncM084454
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:54:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 35652 invoked by uid 17064); 31 Jan 2006 15:54:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([192.220.66.168])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>; 31 Jan 2006 15:54:48 -0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu> <8E142B29-FC98-4F67-983B-A397E969489A@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV24009A18321E7904311803BE320@phx.gbl> <3C818705-BC25-4E39-A556-262B0F3E2EB5@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <13008332-8A8C-494B-A485-2D479F93DCDC@bblfish.net>
Cc: <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>, "atom-syntax Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        "bloged" <users@bloged.dev.java.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:54:58 +0100
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



On 31 Jan 2006, at 03:27, James Holderness wrote:
> Personally I would have preferred using a fragment identifier. So  
> the above example would look something like this:
>
> <link type="application/atom+xml"
>  href="http://mydomain.com/feed#french_entry_id"
>  hreflang="fr"
>  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />
>
> And a link to an entry within the same feed could be done with a  
> fragment only uri, like this:
>
> <link type="application/atom+xml"
>  href="#french_entry_id"
>  hreflang="fr"
>  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />
>
> But from what I can make out, this sort of thing would only be  
> valid if atom:id was defined to be an ID attribute which would  
> assumedly require an Atom DTD.

And that won't be quite possible because:
	- a feed can have a number of entries with the same id, whereas I  
think that when something is defined as being an ID attribute there  
can only be one instance in the same document (not absolutely sure  
about this though)
	- an id is not an attribute in atom xml, so I am not even sure this  
would be possible anyway

Also it is quite possible that the entry fall off the end of the feed  
after a while (usually just before it gets placed into an archive).  
So the link in your first example above would be falsified a little  
too easily.

Henry Story
http://bblfish.net/




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 31 11:18:51 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F3yDR-00017G-7L
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:18:51 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01785
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:16:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0VG988P086174;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:09:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k0VG981K086173;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:09:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bblfish.net (bblfish.net [192.220.66.168])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k0VG97No086167
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:09:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from henry.story@bblfish.net)
Received: (qmail 42260 invoked by uid 17064); 31 Jan 2006 16:09:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [IPv6:::1]) ([192.220.66.168])
          (envelope-sender <henry.story@bblfish.net>)
          by 192.220.66.168 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
          for <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>; 31 Jan 2006 16:09:06 -0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
References: <43AAED9D.70505@gmail.com> <20051222183557.GT1120@klangraum> <43AB03ED.4020107@gmail.com> <254D8A7A-8956-4F15-BE34-23B2062DD737@bblfish.net> <43AB0DDA.8070007@gmail.com> <BAY106-DAV938B07CB5FF3319E99177BE330@phx.gbl> <3B1E5638-A186-43FF-B227-AC78107D7D27@bblfish.net> <43ABE173.8000601@metalab.unc.edu> <8E142B29-FC98-4F67-983B-A397E969489A@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV24009A18321E7904311803BE320@phx.gbl> <3C818705-BC25-4E39-A556-262B0F3E2EB5@bblfish.net> <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <5A7DAD73-A96F-4C94-8EE6-260FBAE0D688@bblfish.net>
Cc: <atom-owl@googlegroups.com>, "atom-syntax Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        "bloged" <users@bloged.dev.java.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:09:17 +0100
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


This looks like a good place to look for a solution.

On 31 Jan 2006, at 03:27, James Holderness wrote:
> Henry Story wrote:
>> Presumably one would need to add an x:feed="http://mydomain.com/ 
>> feed" attribute for translations of entries that appear in other  
>> feeds.
>
> Actually I was thinking just a regular href and type. For example:
>
> <link type="application/atom+xml"
>  href="http://mydomain.com/feed"
>  hreflang="fr"
>  x:id="french_entry_id"
>  x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />
>
> I'm not sure how valid that is considering a client that didn't  
> understand this extension would consider the full feed to be an  
> alternative for that one particular entry which doesn't seem right.


Your point is well taken that the extension would be confusing for  
tools that did not understand it.  Perhaps one could create a new  
link rel="translation" that would point to a feed containing an  
alternate entry with the given x:id and updated at the particular time.

<link rel="translation"
       type="application/atom+xml"
       href="http://mydomain.com/feed"
       hreflang="fr"
       x:id="french_entry_id"
       x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />

would that still be confusing to tools that did not understand the  
extension?

Henry






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 31 20:18:27 2006
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1F46db-0007F8-4D
	for atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:18:27 -0500
Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19991
	for <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:16:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k111AnON024156;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:10:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k111Ancv024155;
	Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:10:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25])
	by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k111Am2D024148
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:10:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au)
Received: from [203.30.247.18] by pop.ironclad.net.au
 with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:10:40 +1100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:10:16 +1100
Subject: Re: todo: add language encoding information
From: Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <C00655A8.8751F%eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au>
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV234C0B3397B98A6DDBA706BE080@phx.gbl>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


On 31/1/06 1:27 PM, "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Actually I was thinking just a regular href and type. For example:
> 
> <link type="application/atom+xml"
> href="http://mydomain.com/feed"
> hreflang="fr"
> x:id="french_entry_id"
> x:updated="2005-11-15T18:30:02X" />
> 
> I'm not sure how valid that is considering a client that didn't understand
> this extension would consider the full feed to be an alternative for that
> one particular entry which doesn't seem right.

Any reason that application/atom+xml document couldn't be an Atom Entry
Document, apart from the current lack of reader/browser support? It could
also then include the links necessary to subscribe to the specific language
feed.

e.




