From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jul 01 06:07:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwcOB-0001HR-JO for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 06:07:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwcO9-00031e-6L for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2006 06:07:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k619tELq095960; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 02:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k619tEep095959; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 02:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+rO5xHMGhnYXa0S/unRG2L3jMtM5bDHjY@mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k619tDO5095943 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 02:55:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (host81-159-19-170.range81-159.btcentralplus.com [81.159.19.170]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k619tBFm029248 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:55:12 -0500 Message-ID: <44A64675.2080101@defuze.org> Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 10:55:01 +0100 From: Sylvain Hellegouarch Reply-To: sh@defuze.org User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: atomixlib: A Python Atom generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Hi all, I have updated atomixlib [1] in order to support the Feed Thread Extension. atomixlib is a Python package to simplify the generation of Atom documents. It offers two underlying engine, one using Amara [2] and the other one using ElementTree [3]. atomixlib does not try to ensure the generated documents are semantically valid and leaves that task to the higher application layers. Cheers, - Sylvain [1] http://trac.defuze.org/browser/oss/atomixlib [2] http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/4suite/amara/ [3] http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 04 12:47:14 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fxo3O-0007pv-FL for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:47:14 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fxo3N-00053W-3E for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:47:14 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k64GSm0v013318; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k64GSmBq013317; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k64GSlWQ013292; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@osafoundation.org) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-69-181-78-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.78.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A8614226E; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:28:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lisa Dusseault Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:28:44 -0700 To: Robert Sayre X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 I wrote the synopsis, in which I was careful not to state that it was a WG document. I believe it was accurate for what it said although it's very brief. I discussed explicitly with the IESG during the IESG tele-conference calls that there was some lengthy debate and disagreement over certain mechanisms in the draft. Lisa On Jun 26, 2006, at 7:23 PM, Robert Sayre wrote: > > On 6/26/06, Robert Sayre wrote: >> On 6/26/06, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> > >> > Your reading might differ from others'. >> >> I've read a lot of these, so I know this synopsis differs others. >> Usually they stuff like "WG is OK with this." It's perfectly natural >> to question and appropriate things that seem out of the ordinary. > > er, a little steamed here, that's not English. > > It's perfectly natural to question whether things that seem out of the > ordinary are appropriate. > > Anyway, you don't seem to have accurate answers on the process when it > doesn't match the outcome you're looking for. > > -- > > Robert Sayre > > "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 09 21:57:29 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fzl1d-0002BC-Is for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:57:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fzl1c-0001ry-79 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:57:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6A1h935041207; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:43:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6A1h9ZF041205; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:43:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6A1h5Gw041176 for ; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id x29so389504nfb for ; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:43:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ezmUXoLkGxj9QAhkJg5dDjDZk3/LfBzeNhVcPu33ODI4WAufMy609IQHN9C7p4rnB0pyyM7G+UhiBmLbiCQkwfsFjDcxQKFB1Axmqa7uup0aadzV5Ugxp0p0goTvyYG7Cycb57Romvg84Pu4VEnguMaDIzcGK9E8XG6UNbpjpoI= Received: by 10.48.240.10 with SMTP id n10mr3280591nfh; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:43:05 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Lisa Dusseault" Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Cc: "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 On 7/4/06, Lisa Dusseault wrote: > I wrote the synopsis, in which I was careful not to state that it was > a WG document. I believe it was accurate for what it said although > it's very brief. I discussed explicitly with the IESG during the > IESG tele-conference calls that there was some lengthy debate and > disagreement over certain mechanisms in the draft. > Hi Lisa, Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? -- Robert Sayre "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 11 20:44:36 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0SqC-0005PI-D4 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:44:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0Sq9-0006D9-0D for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:44:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C0X1Rl062600; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:33:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6C0X137062598; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:33:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C0WxPv062518; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:33:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp) Received: from scmse1.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse1 [133.2.253.16]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id k6C0Wkle027607; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:32:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.210.1) by scmse1.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 3f77_f0c56b44_113d_11db_9160_0014221fa3c9; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:32:46 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6C0WXu5016962; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:32:37 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20060711143954.07072e60@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:41:50 +0900 To: "Robert Sayre" , "Lisa Dusseault" From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Cc: "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.co m> References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 At 10:43 06/07/10, Robert Sayre wrote: >Hi Lisa, > >Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I >recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org >lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I >wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a >problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? >Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? I looked at that namespace shortly. It seems that it would be easy to change the owners to make clear that this is owned by the IETF. This can be done whenever it's needed. A purl namespace in and by itself isn't any better or worse than a W3C namespace. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 11 21:12:19 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0TH1-0006rG-T3 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:12:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0TH0-0003RL-Hf for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:12:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C0o8Ka066688; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6C0o8D8066687; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C0o6up066669 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p46so29330nfa for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=IDKnduqTJwG0qZPGNT+p4ExDv4kJU3O6i2rs3UNF1nWfVvouqQUigC9mnLZ3TArx9k/90f8TbVvBuhZxcRnT6d5cUrkvaeUAJPjodFoPwvtpJ2kTuyOr7zY95iTlCmMhpFbK/67HN0+aX/rO02FVdcepmPMNWtFAe1OjnGrflWU= Received: by 10.48.240.10 with SMTP id n10mr89327nfh; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607111750h33eb6d0ei4212ff9fe57bce43@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:50:06 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Martin Duerst" Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" , "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20060711143954.07072e60@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.0.20.2.20060711143954.07072e60@localhost> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 On 7/11/06, Martin Duerst wrote: > At 10:43 06/07/10, Robert Sayre wrote: > > >Hi Lisa, > > > >Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I > >recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org > >lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I > >wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a > >problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? > >Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? > > I looked at that namespace shortly. Thanks, but I don't see how you would be able to answer any of the questions I asked above. > It seems that it would be easy > to change the owners to make clear that this is owned by the IETF. > This can be done whenever it's needed. Actually, mnot delegates that path. Can he take it away? He's warned us about the very same thing wrt to Atom 0.3. > A purl namespace in and > by itself isn't any better or worse than a W3C namespace. > I don't see any factual basis for that statement. For instance, the IETF has a liason relationship with W3C. -- Robert Sayre From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 11 21:24:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0TTD-00080P-JT for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:24:55 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0TT9-0003lf-6p for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:24:55 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C16aRS071183; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6C16an2071182; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6C16ZlP071171 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 57so10891wri for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VVBXFSRq5JQx0oWz8sipuxWTwcH7oLbyVRESxPwkfUH+TFkLDFWtP9QHIj5TR6sH2qpsC60/1CC9RVwl4Sjd2FxKtnv1qDVeTWNkUYh/4qhnNPR5NFcq8nX0hq70CPHaCp8bPYZtINW26irCv1vamAYBo5cJlCSgqmF5b0Yi/nI= Received: by 10.54.81.11 with SMTP id e11mr111921wrb; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 67sm78940wra.2006.07.11.18.06.34; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44B44B18.3060001@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:06:32 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Duerst CC: Robert Sayre , Lisa Dusseault , Paul Hoffman , Atom WG Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.0.20.2.20060711143954.07072e60@localhost> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20060711143954.07072e60@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 All I need to know is who to transfer it to. - James Martin Duerst wrote: > At 10:43 06/07/10, Robert Sayre wrote: > >> Hi Lisa, >> >> Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I >> recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org >> lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I >> wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a >> problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? >> Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? > > I looked at that namespace shortly. It seems that it would be easy > to change the owners to make clear that this is owned by the IETF. > This can be done whenever it's needed. A purl namespace in and > by itself isn't any better or worse than a W3C namespace. > > Regards, Martin. > > > > #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University > #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 13 19:35:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Ai8-0006Ds-R0 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:35:12 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Ai5-0005pG-Dl for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:35:12 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6DNJaNB073070; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6DNJaom073069; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from 124-144-22-3.rev.home.ne.jp (124-144-24-99.rev.home.ne.jp [124.144.24.99]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6DNJYYU073032 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:19:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from masato.terada.rd@hitachi.com) Received: from hitachi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 124-144-22-3.rev.home.ne.jp (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k6DNJQMs019946 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:19:28 +0900 Message-ID: <44B6D4E8.B33051E5@hitachi.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:19:04 +0900 From: Masato Terada Organization: Hitachi Incident Response Team, Hitachi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [ja] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: RSS Extension for Security Information Exchange Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Hi folks, I am new to the list. I would like to make a RSS Extension (Qualified Security Advisory Reference) for RSS 1.0, 2.0 and Atom to promote the following environment. - Distribution designed to encourage reuse of security information - More efficient aggregation of security information from product vendors There are my documents on the following site. Title: Proposal of RSS Extension for Security Information Exchange http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/20060630_paper.pdf http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/20060630_presentation.pdf And I am constructing a feasibility study site for this activity (on going). http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/ Please send your kindly messages (advice, discussions and questions etc.) to me. Cheers, Masato (My expertise is security area, not Atom ^^;) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 13 20:02:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1B8U-0002fd-GA for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:02:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1B8R-0006rl-TC for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:02:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6DNivFi082033; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:44:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6DNivGi082031; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:44:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6DNiu8D081992 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:44:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 Jul 2006 23:44:50 -0000 Received: from xdsl-81-173-171-228.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.171.228] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2006 01:44:50 +0200 X-Authenticated: #163624 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:44:58 +0200 From: "A. Pagaltzis" To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: RSS Extension for Security Information Exchange Message-ID: <20060713234458.GJ2620@klangraum> Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org References: <44B6D4E8.B33051E5@hitachi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44B6D4E8.B33051E5@hitachi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6DNivFi082033 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab * Masato Terada [2006-07-14 01:30]: > I would like to make a RSS Extension (Qualified Security Advisory > Reference) for RSS 1.0, 2.0 and Atom to promote the following > environment. >=20 > - Distribution designed to encourage reuse of security information > - More efficient aggregation of security information from product vend= ors This doesn=E2=80=99t strike me as something that needs any new syndication functionality. It seems like you just want to transport some non-HTML content via a feed. Atom natively supports transporting documents of any MIME Type without the need for any extensions. Doesn=E2=80=99t that cover your use case? Do you actually need to extend the functionality of the syndication format? Regards, --=20 Aristotle Pagaltzis // From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jul 14 00:07:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Exf-0005MB-N6 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:07:32 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Epe-0002Lq-C1 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:59:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6E3ibGS041135; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:44:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6E3ibKp041134; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:44:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail4.hitachi.co.jp (mail4.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.5]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6E3iaWl041126 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:44:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from terada@zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp) Received: from mlsv5.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.145.228.16]) by mail4.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1290833CDA for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter-s3.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv5.hitachi.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.10) id k6E3iYC6000501; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 Received: from vshuts1.hitachi.co.jp (unverified) by mfilter-s3.hitachi.co.jp (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.17) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 Received: from hsdlgw92.sdl.hitachi.co.jp ([133.144.7.20]) by vshuts1.hitachi.co.jp with SMTP id M2006071412443430784 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 Received: from vgate2.sdl.hitachi.co.jp by hsdlgw92.sdl.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W06061314) id MAA01748; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 Received: from zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp ([133.144.99.184]) by vgate2.sdl.hitachi.co.jp (SAVSMTP 3.1.1.32) with SMTP id M2006071412443325535 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:33 +0900 Received: (from terada@localhost) by zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) id k6E3iYMJ075180; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:44:34 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200607140344.k6E3iYMJ075180@zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp> From: masato.terada.rd@hitachi.com To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: RSS Extension for Security Information Exchange In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:44:58 JST" . <20060713234458.GJ2620@klangraum> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21] 1997-12/23(Tue) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 In article <20060713234458.GJ2620@klangraum> pagaltzis@gmx.de writes: At first, there were two typos. Correct URL is ... http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/doc/20060630_paper.pdf ^^^ http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/doc/20060630_presentation.pdf ^^^ * "A. Pagaltzis" : > Do you actually need to extend the functionality of the > syndication format? Currently, I use RSS 1.0 and the field of the Dublin Core. In case of Atom, is best practice to use the field of the Dublin Core" ? Regards, Masato From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jul 14 11:55:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Q0k-0003Yj-L1 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:55:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G1Q0i-0004rT-3z for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:55:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EFgi7O026104; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6EFgi3a026103; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6EFggpT026066 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:42:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Jul 2006 15:42:37 -0000 Received: from xdsl-213-196-245-26.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.245.26] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2006 17:42:37 +0200 X-Authenticated: #163624 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:42:45 +0200 From: "A. Pagaltzis" To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: RSS Extension for Security Information Exchange Message-ID: <20060714154245.GK2620@klangraum> Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org References: <20060713234458.GJ2620@klangraum> <200607140344.k6E3iYMJ075180@zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200607140344.k6E3iYMJ075180@zabon.sdl.hitachi.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6EFgi7O026104 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 * masato.terada.rd@hitachi.com [2006-07-14= 06:00]: > Currently, I use RSS 1.0 and the field of the > Dublin Core. In case of Atom, is best practice to use the field > of the Dublin Core" ? Sounds like Atom=E2=80=99s native `link` element to me. What kind of values do your `relation` elements have and what do they mean? Regards, --=20 Aristotle Pagaltzis // From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 16 17:52:43 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2EXb-0003Jc-KR for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:52:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2EXa-0005nP-9M for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:52:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GLcx7P076621; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GLcxcu076620; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [132.219.13.244] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GLcveu076594; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:38:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:39:27 -0700 To: Atom WG , atom-protocol@imc.org From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Very brief minutes from the Atompub WG meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea ... are at --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 16 18:01:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Efm-0001JG-Gf for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:01:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Efj-00079E-5R for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:01:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GLoAdg079552; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GLoAoQ079551; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GLo8YL079530 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o60so542780nfa for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VXwywKK2E93ElQreOHL0FhHp+ezAXkSt3O67p0cVvfOTJRpUqvPZa0VTx14seWdiy8fN1nyOynRLSwPCnBehireAF9G6DBQaysZc5eF/2MJqzPHyzN2bfGGQ/t4glLlmPqwwuXkjHBPyjj7um+BcVclcqPFPPsXR2hyzcgS1jcY= Received: by 10.48.80.20 with SMTP id d20mr1426752nfb; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607161450v782743bfv95b7a8de8aa6a40f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:50:06 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Paul Hoffman" Subject: Re: Very brief minutes from the Atompub WG meeting Cc: "Atom WG" , atom-protocol@imc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 > "There is a difference between "mandatory to implement" and "mandatory to deploy"." ??? "My client supports basic+tls, but none of the binaries include it" -- Robert Sayre From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 13:09:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Wak-0003jC-KB for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:09:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Waj-0000aO-5p for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:09:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HGlEsV058014; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:47:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HGlERg058013; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:47:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laser.networkresonance.com (laser.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HGlEac057979 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:47:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ekr@networkresonance.com) Received: from networkresonance.com (raman.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.3]) by laser.networkresonance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A852222425; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:55:15 -0700 (PDT) To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: HTTP Authentication Options Cc: secdir@mit.edu X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.3; nmh 1.0.4; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 19) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:47:09 -0700 From: Eric Rescorla Message-Id: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Paul Hoffman asked me to reprise my remarks on HTTP Authentication options from IETF 66 on the mailing list, so here goes. At the present moment, there are three HTTP authentication schemes in reasonably wide use: - Basic raw passwords in the HTTP headers. - Digest a challenge/response handshake in the HTTP headers - Forms raw passwords filled in a form and then passed in the GET arguments or more usually the POST body. Any of these mechanisms can be run over HTTPS. IESG Policy The IESG Policy, as I understand it, is that plaintext password systems must not be used on non-encrypted transport (in this case, TLS). Here's the relevant section from RFC 3552: The most common access control mechanism is simple USERNAME/PASSWORD The user provides a username and a reusable password to the host which he wishes to use. This system is vulnerable to a simple passive attack where the attacker sniffs the password off the wire and then initiates a new session, presenting the password. This threat can be mitigated by hosting the protocol over an encrypted connection such as TLS or IPSEC. Unprotected (plaintext) username/password systems are not acceptable in IETF standards. Note that this is a BCP but reflects my understanding of current IESG policy. This leaves the following three viable options: - Basic over HTTPS - Digest over HTTPS or in the clear - Forms over HTTPS The topic of MUST implement versus MUST deploy came up. Getting a definite answer to this requires input from the IESG, but my understanding is that standards MUST specify an acceptable authentication algorithm and MUST make it a MUST implement. I don't believe that at present it's a MUST NOT implement passwords in plaintext, but I could be wrong about this. Again, ask the IESG. SECURITY OF THE SYSTEMS A rough overview of the security of these systems can be found below. For more details, see S 4 and S6 of draft-iab-auth-mech-05.txt. Plaintext Passwords: Any password in the clear system is susceptible to password sniffing: an attacker on the wire can capture the password and use it to impersonate the user to the original server and to any server on which the user has used the same password.[0] If the authentication is run over TLS, then passive attacks no longer work. Active attacks may still be possible if the rules in RFC 2818 about certificate validation are not followed. In most such systems, the passwords are stored in the password database as a one-way hash of the password. This allows the server to check the password without storing the plaintext password. If the password file is compromised, the attacker can try to mount a dictionary attack to recover the original password. This generally works if the passwords are weakly chosen, which is common. Note that an attacker who wholly compromises the server can capture passwords in flight as they are used. Digest: Challenge-Response systems are not directly susceptible to the sniffing attack mentioned above. However, an attacker who captures the challenge-response exchange can potentially mount a dictionary attack, as above, to recover the original password. This is, of course, much harder than just sniffing the password off the wire. Challenge-Response systems require the password to be stored in the clear on the server (password equivalence). This means that someone who recovers the password file can use it directly to impersonate any user to the server. There are two mitigating factors. The first is that Digest is constructed so that the "password" you store is first hashed with the Realm name, so that you can only use it to impersonate to the same server, rather than to any server on which the user has used the same password. (You can of course still mount a dictionary attack). The second factor is that in most OSes, privilege escalation is so easy that in general an attacker who captures the password file could have simply captured plaintext passwords directly, as noted above. IMPLEMENTATION ISSUES I'm given to understand that there are ways in which the Digest spec is unclear and that implementation and interoperability is fairly spotty. I don't know much about this, but it's clear it can be made to work since SIP uses Digest. RECOMMENDATIONS Given that AtomPub is an automated protocol, I think Forms is out. That means either Basic (or Digest) over HTTPS or Digest over HTTP. In general, I tend to recommend HTTPS since it provides other security benefits. This is especially true since password enrollment is a fine time to record the server certificate fingerprint and thus bypass the PKI issue. However, if you can't tolerate HTTPS, then Digest also meets IESG reqts as I understand them. [0] There are ways to design these systems so that the password that goes over the wire are different for different systems even if the original password is the same (see Boneh's PwdHash) but these don't apply to the standard implementations. -Ekr From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 13:26:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Wrr-0006ez-Dk for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:26:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Wrq-0002FG-3C for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:26:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHDVgE065141; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HHDVmj065139; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6HHDPKI065083 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:13:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Jul 2006 17:13:20 -0000 Received: from pd95b23e9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.61]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 17 Jul 2006 19:13:20 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <44BBC52D.3030007@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:13:17 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Rescorla CC: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options References: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> In-Reply-To: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Eric, thanks for the good summary (with which I agree). Obviously it's a good idea for IETF specs that are based on HTTP to talk about authentication options. What's really not clear to me why it is expected that this exercise should be repeated for each and every application of HTTP. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if there'd be a single BCP about the (currently) best way to do HTTP authentication (understanding that this may be a moving target), and let other specs such as AtomPub reference it? Best regards, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 13:29:05 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Wu1-0006uF-F2 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:29:05 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Wty-0002Ig-VK for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:29:05 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHFWIG065816; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HHFWZu065815; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laser.networkresonance.com (laser.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHFVuY065773 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ekr@networkresonance.com) Received: from networkresonance.com (raman.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.3]) by laser.networkresonance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68979222426; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:23:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Julian Reschke cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:13:17 +0200." <44BBC52D.3030007@gmx.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.3; nmh 1.0.4; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 19) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:15:26 -0700 From: Eric Rescorla Message-Id: <20060717172332.68979222426@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Julian Reschke wrote: > thanks for the good summary (with which I agree). > > Obviously it's a good idea for IETF specs that are based on HTTP to > talk about authentication options. What's really not clear to me why > it is expected that this exercise should be repeated for each and > every application of HTTP. > > Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if there'd be a single BCP about the > (currently) best way to do HTTP authentication (understanding that > this may be a moving target), and let other specs such as AtomPub > reference it? This seems like a reasonable option to me, but of course it would hold up every HTTP draft until such document existed... :) -Ekr From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 14:08:43 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2XWN-0003th-S8 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:08:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2XWL-0005Eb-GG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:08:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHnEav074705; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HHnEFc074704; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHnDSo074694 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p48so44511nfa for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=K8SmPDc7TTM80uRuuPeDmJKGQ5Ib7BNm9Xl3brU1Lq0NJswNmQ4fmffItddJN0y7dtDY2iqkdttWhNAuChpFu2Dw7BEoqzMmTALOBKB4XeCyO4UGD6g+AMYxNi5MjlyR0pxvT+Ag+iVGNBM2UikJ1LVhLPvXVaGpA8v4IVa203w= Received: by 10.48.242.9 with SMTP id p9mr2188741nfh; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607171049x7ed99677l316c62b0fadbc7ea@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:49:12 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Eric Rescorla" Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > In most such systems, the passwords are stored in the password > database as a one-way hash of the password. Systems that use forms will often do this as well... > > > IMPLEMENTATION ISSUES > I'm given to understand that there are ways in which the Digest spec > is unclear and that implementation and interoperability is fairly > spotty. ...which makes it impossible to use the existing auth database with Digest. Digest's more extensive protection options are basically unimplemented. Digest is extremely underspecified wrt to encoding of non-ascii characters. Some implementations respect the charset parameter specified in SASL Digest (RFC 2831). Others use the encoding of the page. No one is quite sure what IE does.* Mozilla uses UTF-8 all the time. * The only thing we can reasonably say is Basic+TLS, but that's sort of silly, since many servers and some clients won't implement it. I'd rather skip the collective game of pretend. -- Robert Sayre "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 14:15:04 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2XcW-0008OC-BO for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:15:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2XcU-0006t7-V5 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:15:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHwoiA077255; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HHwoax077254; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laser.networkresonance.com (laser.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HHwouj077228 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ekr@networkresonance.com) Received: from networkresonance.com (raman.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.3]) by laser.networkresonance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C67D222425; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT) To: "Robert Sayre" cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:49:12 EDT." <68fba5c50607171049x7ed99677l316c62b0fadbc7ea@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.3; nmh 1.0.4; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 19) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:58:45 -0700 From: Eric Rescorla Message-Id: <20060717180651.3C67D222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Doh. Fat-fingered my reply.... Resending to the list. > On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > > > In most such systems, the passwords are stored in the password > > database as a one-way hash of the password. > > Systems that use forms will often do this as well... Yes, the heading "Plaintext Passwords" was intended to cover both Basic and Forms. > > IMPLEMENTATION ISSUES > > I'm given to understand that there are ways in which the Digest spec > > is unclear and that implementation and interoperability is fairly > > spotty. > > ...which makes it impossible to use the existing auth database with > Digest. If by "existing auth database" you mean the basic or form database, this is generally correct--though one could in fact implement an auth database that would work for both. > Digest's more extensive protection options are basically > unimplemented. By "more extensive protection options" do you mean the auth-int mode? I'm not familiar with what HTTP implementations do, but I'll note that SIP implementations will do auth-int. In any case, from the perspective of password capture, any form of digest is better than basic. > Digest is extremely underspecified wrt to encoding of > non-ascii characters. Some implementations respect the charset > parameter specified in SASL Digest (RFC 2831). Others use the encoding > of the page. No one is quite sure what IE does.* Mozilla uses UTF-8 > all the time. > > * Right. This could obviously be the subject of a clarifying draft. > The only thing we can reasonably say is Basic+TLS, but that's sort of > silly, since many servers and some clients won't implement it. I'd > rather skip the collective game of pretend. Feel free to take this point up with the IESG. I doubt you'll find them very sympathetic, however. -Ekr From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 14:47:28 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Y7s-00034t-5G for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:47:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Y7q-0002C6-Pz for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:47:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIUYN9085313; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HIUYnT085312; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIUWtQ085306 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id y38so47277nfb for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FwK8mqx2vQni0ZLzSIRJRUIE6/hFTIdD20Uf+98E/8j/UEtrlF6T+quJedhmA25vnx3EoxFoUW8PfHxU0k0YqDUoviTLq9CoYWXMPd6ovjYs7XN9ytBnoaCo2pYhAMOsj5tTKOzRosKuatF8niXRodfjSAr7FEbgJCxQGnRWmU0= Received: by 10.49.42.5 with SMTP id u5mr2217903nfj; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607171130w55b6e605v1380229eb0448246@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:30:32 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Eric Rescorla" Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060717180651.3C67D222425@laser.networkresonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50607171049x7ed99677l316c62b0fadbc7ea@mail.gmail.com> <20060717180651.3C67D222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > If by "existing auth database" you mean the basic or form database, > this is generally correct--though one could in fact implement > an auth database that would work for both. > Right. But some of our server implementers couldn't implement it if they wanted to. > > > Digest's more extensive protection options are basically > > unimplemented. > > By "more extensive protection options" do you mean the auth-int mode? Yes, but I believe some clients even screw up auth mode, and only work with 2069-style. Container-managed security in Java Servlet implementations often doesn't work with Digest, at least with the vendor-provided authentication classes. > I'm not familiar with what HTTP implementations do, but I'll note > that SIP implementations will do auth-int. > Mozilla doesn't do it. Apache (mod_auth_digest) doesn't do it. Opera does. I don't know what MS libraries do these days. > Feel free to take this point up with the IESG. I doubt you'll find > them very sympathetic, however. Well, I'd like the document to reflect reality, but I suspect that will be no match for the IESG rules in combination with some WG members that want Basic+TLS enshrined in the document because that is what they are going to deploy. -- Robert Sayre From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 14:47:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Y8J-0004Bb-3w for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:47:55 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Y8H-0002Db-Kh for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:47:55 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIZUaU086605; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HIZUZ8086604; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIZT1a086572; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:35:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.86]) by bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:35:23 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:35:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 85.210.62.177 by BAY109-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:35:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [85.210.62.177] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: "atom-protocol" Cc: References: <20060717165515.4A852222425@laser.networkresonance.com> <68fba5c50607171049x7ed99677l316c62b0fadbc7ea@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:35:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2006 18:35:23.0353 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3B74490:01C6A9CF] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Robert Sayre wrote: > Some implementations respect the charset > parameter specified in SASL Digest (RFC 2831). Others use the encoding > of the page. No one is quite sure what IE does. From Microsoft's SSP docs [1]: "Digest SSP uses the charset directive for both HTTP and SASL mode. This directive allows the use of UTF-8 in HTTP mode. To maintain backwards compatibility with clients that do not understand the charset directive, the realm in the challenge is encoded in the standard ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1) character set. If the client understands the charset directive, then the username and realm (and password) can be encoded in UTF-8 in the challenge response sent back to the server. If the client does not understand the charset directive, then the standard ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1) must be used." I would have thought this applied to IE as well as IIS, but reading Gordon's post it looks like the .NET implementation might be borked. If anyone really cares it's probably not too much effort to put together a few tests. Regards James [1] http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/717b450c-f4a0-4cc9-86f4-cc0633aae5f91033.mspx?mfr=true From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 15:01:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2YLn-0008RL-Lc for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:01:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2YLm-0006dI-AH for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:01:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIjW23089017; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HIjW9I089015; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laser.networkresonance.com (laser.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.2]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIjVwB088975; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ekr@networkresonance.com) Received: from networkresonance.com (raman.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.3]) by laser.networkresonance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C43E222425; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) To: "Robert Sayre" cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu, atom-protocol@imc.org Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:30:32 EDT." <68fba5c50607171130w55b6e605v1380229eb0448246@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.3; nmh 1.0.4; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 19) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:45:26 -0700 From: Eric Rescorla Message-Id: <20060717185332.7C43E222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Added atom-protocol to the Cc: line Robert Sayre wrote: > On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > I'm not familiar with what HTTP implementations do, but I'll note > > that SIP implementations will do auth-int. > > > > Mozilla doesn't do it. Apache (mod_auth_digest) doesn't do it. Opera > does. I don't know what MS libraries do these days. Right. My point was merely that it's doable as a matter of programming. > > Feel free to take this point up with the IESG. I doubt you'll find > > them very sympathetic, however. > > Well, I'd like the document to reflect reality, but I suspect that > will be no match for the IESG rules in combination with some WG > members that want Basic+TLS enshrined in the document because that is > what they are going to deploy. I'm not arguing for any particular outcome. I'm merely informing you of my understanding of the rules of the game. -Ekr From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 15:10:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2YUE-0000XI-Dj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:10:34 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2YUD-0006r2-2o for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:10:34 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIsu7F091463; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HIsuZH091462; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HIsrfD091428 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id y38so54881nfb for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Yw7wdARkZk2jTGyi785WEowV0pPhKrpEtJUJuurkhX5B0hUHkbu0ddQkocFMHFlW6Bl8Ybz0gtlyP1e8bCeiSf2OEZemEJLwv12/KrhwY2bQJqu4jpDYHa2annzsn7Ug8Nzdp36uPulzdBVjXzrEplJJbtf+nlhSFo/h5goXSQA= Received: by 10.49.2.14 with SMTP id e14mr2240369nfi; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607171154v5d634ac0wa8142ad5e06766cf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:54:52 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Eric Rescorla" Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu, atom-protocol@imc.org In-Reply-To: <20060717185332.7C43E222425@laser.networkresonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50607171130w55b6e605v1380229eb0448246@mail.gmail.com> <20060717185332.7C43E222425@laser.networkresonance.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > Right. My point was merely that it's doable as a matter of > programming. > That's debatable, from an HTTP server's perspective, because the server must check (and temporarily store) the whole request before it can tell if the client knows the password. Not a good way to handle video uploads. Other authentication protocols, such as Amazon S3 auth, include the Content-MD5 header in the digest calculation so the server only has to check message body integrity after it has verified that the client knows the password. -- Robert Sayre "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 17 15:31:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Yoq-0006Ye-V7 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:31:52 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2Yop-0007QP-KG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:31:52 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HJKFoK097658; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HJKFLP097656; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from raman.networkresonance.com (raman.networkresonance.com [198.144.196.3]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HJKEAs097625; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ekr@networkresonance.com) Received: by raman.networkresonance.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F05321E8C1C; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:08 -0700 (PDT) To: "Robert Sayre" Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org, secdir@mit.edu, atom-protocol@imc.org Subject: Re: HTTP Authentication Options Reply-to: EKR References: <68fba5c50607171130w55b6e605v1380229eb0448246@mail.gmail.com> <20060717185332.7C43E222425@laser.networkresonance.com> <68fba5c50607171154v5d634ac0wa8142ad5e06766cf@mail.gmail.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:08 -0700 In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607171154v5d634ac0wa8142ad5e06766cf@mail.gmail.com> (Robert Sayre's message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:54:52 -0400") Message-ID: <86r70krqc7.fsf@raman.networkresonance.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.19 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 "Robert Sayre" writes: > On 7/17/06, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> >> Right. My point was merely that it's doable as a matter of >> programming. >> > > That's debatable, from an HTTP server's perspective, because the > server must check (and temporarily store) the whole request before it > can tell if the client knows the password. Not a good way to handle > video uploads. > > Other authentication protocols, such as Amazon S3 auth, include the > Content-MD5 header in the digest calculation so the server only has to > check message body integrity after it has verified that the client > knows the password. Sure. But then you don't *have* to use auth-int for this application. Note that TLS doesn't have this problem. -Ekr From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 18 16:23:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2w60-0002N5-7j for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:23:08 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2w60-0002yR-5U for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:23:08 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2w5w-0004t0-M2 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:23:07 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6IK38qE016611; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:03:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6IK38qf016610; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:03:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6IK37S6016594; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:03:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@osafoundation.org) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (CPE00123feab9ff-CM000a7363eafb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.46.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A7314226E; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:03:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <51C57714-762C-48DB-8909-16F9DCB26DBD@osafoundation.org> Cc: Paul Hoffman , Atom WG , Sam Hartman Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lisa Dusseault Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:02:59 -0400 To: Robert Sayre X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 I can't speak for all of the IESG, how closely they reviewed the document and how carefully they considered the appropriateness of the namespace. We don't have rules against such namespace choices. We could argue about whether or not we should have such rules, but the results of that argument would most likely affect future specs. To be clear about Sam's issue, Sam asked about change control for the document, and did not suggest changing the namespace or some other change. He said "I want to confirm that we hae sufficient control over this specification that we have change control for the future." We do, so a simple "Yes" answer was the resolution that addressed Sam's concern. It's too bad if Sam's review raised a point that you would have preferred to consider in Last Call. At this point, it's very rare to pull a document or change something like this that would affect implementations. Often the remedy at this stage is to start working on the next revision of the RFC and/or to make a note to fix in the next revision. So the IETF change control over this document may answer your concern, one way or another, as well. Lisa On Jul 9, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Robert Sayre wrote: > On 7/4/06, Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> I wrote the synopsis, in which I was careful not to state that it was >> a WG document. I believe it was accurate for what it said although >> it's very brief. I discussed explicitly with the IESG during the >> IESG tele-conference calls that there was some lengthy debate and >> disagreement over certain mechanisms in the draft. >> > > Hi Lisa, > > Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I > recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org > lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I > wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a > problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? > Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? > > -- > > Robert Sayre > > "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 18 19:59:25 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2zTJ-0005VG-Sx for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:59:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2zTI-0002UV-HO for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:59:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6INhe94079066; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6INheks079065; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.189]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6INhdf9079035 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o60so69764nfa for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=i76k+NjKi5TDzrfvh4E/hz+Qy+fSuZ0/dZrQL+g4e3wTBL/97KamLHChY3LsQp3l5r4htADKyece9tw5x2k9Pyuvlr6cq+9Fah//fzdU1C/srxleohVtKNOgnPkBYsOHLHSrkvmflgy66QJahqpUu9/c6b6PzOcPbcu9utPlsZw= Received: by 10.48.242.9 with SMTP id p9mr1155420nfh; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607181643r137efdd4wd84c887942d743c3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:43:36 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Lisa Dusseault" Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Cc: "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" , "Sam Hartman" In-Reply-To: <51C57714-762C-48DB-8909-16F9DCB26DBD@osafoundation.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <51C57714-762C-48DB-8909-16F9DCB26DBD@osafoundation.org> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab On 7/18/06, Lisa Dusseault wrote: > We don't have rules against such namespace choices. We > could argue about whether or not we should have such rules, Well, there is a BCP about this. > At this point, it's very rare to > pull a document or change something like this that would affect > implementations. Often the remedy at this stage is... I should hope that the IETF/IESG doesn't encounter this situation often, but that doesn't seem like a strong argument. How commonly are private namespaces used in IETF standards? The right argument to have is whether the namespace is a problem. Even the draft's author acknowledges that it is a valid concern, though he probably doesn't have the same solution in mind. -- Robert Sayre From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 18 20:28:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2zvg-0000DS-L7 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:28:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2zvf-00045E-93 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:28:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J088be086026; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6J088aX086025; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J085js086002 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i3so15720wra for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:08:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nr2vivUfdJjnTY5DtgX5uiUkI05naB4ITStDGiWrbnsNQPSoqeLG9AH1VL1VlnJLIp3ynCrFr0wWdzF1l2Yji1LOJOyN7rxEprwf+hHAeITDApUp+6EVEkfkYYNus0MtMwjtZih+nxm6LTz91do/P8snJCMskKKACadIT4IWkmY= Received: by 10.54.70.14 with SMTP id s14mr91261wra; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 14sm182291wrl.2006.07.18.17.08.02; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44BD77DF.5020508@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:07:59 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Sayre CC: Lisa Dusseault , Paul Hoffman , Atom WG , Sam Hartman Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <51C57714-762C-48DB-8909-16F9DCB26DBD@osafoundation.org> <68fba5c50607181643r137efdd4wd84c887942d743c3@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607181643r137efdd4wd84c887942d743c3@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 That's kind of hard to comment on given that I'm not exactly sure what "solution" you're suggesting. If it's changing the namespace URI, I'd be annoyed to do so given the facts that it's currently already being used in the wild and that you're the only one, as far as I can recall, who has actually ever complained about it. That said, however, "very annoyed" does not equal "unwilling". If the IESG determines it to be a problem, then changing the namespace is fine. I trust their judgement. - James Robert Sayre wrote: > ...Even the draft's author > acknowledges that it is a valid concern, though he probably doesn't > have the same solution in mind. > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 19 04:16:13 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37E5-0008IV-4f for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:16:13 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37E3-0002fM-O0 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:16:13 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J7x46A019556; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6J7x4QC019555; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6J7x3Z0019495 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:59:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jul 2006 07:58:54 -0000 Received: from p508F9742.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.151.66] by mail.gmx.net (mp041) with SMTP; 19 Jul 2006 09:58:54 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:58:45 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Sayre CC: Lisa Dusseault , Paul Hoffman , Atom WG Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Robert Sayre schrieb: > ... > Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I > recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org > lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I > wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a > problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? > Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? > ... Although I share Robert's concerns about how this spec became a Proposed Standard, I really have trouble to see the issue here. As a matter of fact, I'm using a purl.org URL in one of my (non-Atom related) drafts as well. What we're talking about here is not change control over the namespace or the namespace name! It's about what happens if an HTTP client dereferences that URL, which is irrelevant for the purpose of XML namespaces. My (and I assume also James') assumption is that once the specification is out, the purl.org HTTP URL will be reconfigured so that it redirects to a URL identifying the actual RFC (preferably to readable HTML :-). All of this is only necessary because the IETF insists in not minting HTTP URLs themselves. I think the argument is that they can become unstable. Of course that depends on the organization minting them and maintaining the servers, not the actual type of URI... (note that even the BCP for usage of XML in IETF specs -- RFC3470 -- mentions that it would be good if the IETF would allow URLs from www.ietf.org for this purpose). Best regards, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 19 04:28:07 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37Pb-0000cC-1n for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:28:07 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37PY-0003bA-Kd for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:28:07 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J8CBoh023001; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:12:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6J8CBaq023000; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:12:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+8bFj1CxL6aJLzQE0nKi58V7Stux8HAkU@mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J8C9PE022972; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19pFn4kY/sFk20NQm0jOCwg+FXh/aC0PwA@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k6J8C61F031650; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:12:06 -0500 Received: (from apache@localhost) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id k6J8C5pF031648; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:12:05 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: mail1.webfaction.com: apache set sender to sh@defuze.org using -f Received: from 194.221.74.7 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user platom_sylvain) by mail1.webfaction.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:12:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <58933.194.221.74.7.1153296725.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> In-Reply-To: <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:12:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard From: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Robert Sayre" , "Lisa Dusseault" , "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" Reply-To: sh@defuze.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6-7.el3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 > Although I share Robert's concerns about how this spec became a Proposed > Standard, I really have trouble to see the issue here. As a matter of > fact, I'm using a purl.org URL in one of my (non-Atom related) drafts as > well. > > What we're talking about here is not change control over the namespace > or the namespace name! It's about what happens if an HTTP client > dereferences that URL, which is irrelevant for the purpose of XML > namespaces. My (and I assume also James') assumption is that once the > specification is out, the purl.org HTTP URL will be reconfigured so that > it redirects to a URL identifying the actual RFC (preferably to readable > HTML :-). > > All of this is only necessary because the IETF insists in not minting > HTTP URLs themselves. I think the argument is that they can become > unstable. Of course that depends on the organization minting them and > maintaining the servers, not the actual type of URI... (note that even > the BCP for usage of XML in IETF specs -- RFC3470 -- mentions that it > would be good if the IETF would allow URLs from www.ietf.org for this > purpose). > Just a thought like that but wouldn't it make sense for RFC 4287 to have specified that every standardised extension should follow the same namespace as RFC 4287? For instance RFC 4287 uses http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom Extensions should then be something like: http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom-FTE It's just a rough idea. - Sylvain From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 19 05:01:22 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37vm-0002yV-Tj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:01:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G37vk-0005gu-I7 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:01:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6J8oBOF033412; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:50:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6J8oBie033410; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:50:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6J8o7na033341 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:50:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jul 2006 08:50:01 -0000 Received: from p508F9742.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.151.66] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 19 Jul 2006 10:50:01 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <44BDF22F.3070708@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:49:51 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sh@defuze.org CC: Robert Sayre , Lisa Dusseault , Paul Hoffman , Atom WG Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> <58933.194.221.74.7.1153296725.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> In-Reply-To: <58933.194.221.74.7.1153296725.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Sylvain Hellegouarch schrieb: > ... > Just a thought like that but wouldn't it make sense for RFC 4287 to have > specified that every standardised extension should follow the same > namespace as RFC 4287? > > For instance RFC 4287 uses http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom > Extensions should then be something like: http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom-FTE > > It's just a rough idea. > ... Well, that makes standardizing extensions much harder (you need the W3C assistance in getting a namespace URI) with no gain (at least, as far as I can tell). It's a *feature* that it is so easy to define a globally unique XML namespace name. Best regards, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 19 09:06:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3BlO-0002uJ-QY for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:06:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3BlN-0000sj-FE for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:06:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JCt1gH000324; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:55:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JCt1lh000323; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:55:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JCsuIx000264 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:54:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o60so214089nfa for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:54:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aClFQIy8x52YwMRDw9IQSqMhjkx5nEGQ/npFIkiXdqxrtE44+WDcy5mGrHMwQNxNFKH/f6bl9vm6Y/ITG0Y24qWz2rs0DPjO6bybbhPnviDgIhi2qDF2pgG9koQibCicyq6D4NAAU04Kx8KTISivSd5a+YYKsX921Hp9FpfVWiI= Received: by 10.48.242.9 with SMTP id p9mr1616732nfh; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607190554k43bb3333i9ce725839b47b4da@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:54:55 +0200 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "Julian Reschke" Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" , "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" In-Reply-To: <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On 7/19/06, Julian Reschke wrote: > > What we're talking about here is not change control over the namespace > or the namespace name! It's about what happens if an HTTP client > dereferences that URL, which is irrelevant for the purpose of XML > namespaces. It's irrelevant for the XML software, but not the implementer, which is why you want it to redirect to something. That's the problem I have with it. -- Robert Sayre From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 19 10:57:29 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3DUP-0004bp-Pt for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:57:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3DUN-0008WG-BL for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:57:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JEjTps029247; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JEjThO029246; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.225]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JEjSki029228 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i3so86475wra for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=QbGEzl0NKVUKuhW7nl39CRt2iJaRS/doMaCEpGFoMDFN5AUC572K7kb0t7Zt3VcCpcCTyhVXsL01aw4Pm+w6BolcjFqf211yrqdq+kkdPxvHgrAXunO+tn/q6nBjnbVwI2XL5hM0oMJ3IRcBB0LhMSpMsqj5xwEAEyqIywIhYss= Received: by 10.54.98.20 with SMTP id v20mr958017wrb; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 40sm1080704wrl.2006.07.19.07.45.24; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44BE4582.2000400@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:45:22 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke CC: Robert Sayre , Lisa Dusseault , Paul Hoffman , Atom WG Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <44BDE635.1030101@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0 now redirects to the draft-12 spec. When the rfc is minted, it will redirect to the rfc. - James Julian Reschke wrote: > > Robert Sayre schrieb: >> ... >> Thanks for the clarification. You may have missed another question I >> recently asked, so I'll repeat it here. I am concerned that purl.org >> lists the document author as the owner of the namespace URI, and I >> wonder how the IESG came to the conclusion that the namespace is not a >> problem. I see Sam Hartman raised the issue. What was the resolution? >> Could the draft advance to Draft- or Full-Standard in that namespace? >> ... > > Although I share Robert's concerns about how this spec became a Proposed > Standard, I really have trouble to see the issue here. As a matter of > fact, I'm using a purl.org URL in one of my (non-Atom related) drafts as > well. > > What we're talking about here is not change control over the namespace > or the namespace name! It's about what happens if an HTTP client > dereferences that URL, which is irrelevant for the purpose of XML > namespaces. My (and I assume also James') assumption is that once the > specification is out, the purl.org HTTP URL will be reconfigured so that > it redirects to a URL identifying the actual RFC (preferably to readable > HTML :-). > > All of this is only necessary because the IETF insists in not minting > HTTP URLs themselves. I think the argument is that they can become > unstable. Of course that depends on the organization minting them and > maintaining the servers, not the actual type of URI... (note that even > the BCP for usage of XML in IETF specs -- RFC3470 -- mentions that it > would be good if the IETF would allow URLs from www.ietf.org for this > purpose). > > Best regards, Julian > > From mayo9857@ocn.ne.jp Sun Jul 23 00:31:28 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4Vcm-00012j-IC for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:31:28 -0400 Received: from [221.206.70.33] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4Vcj-0004Ss-MT for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:31:28 -0400 Received: from egi4 (unknown [59.110.178.147]) by smtp5 (Coremail) with SMTP id tOnIaAki8IFOGlRj.1 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:31:20 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [59.110.178.147] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCNkhMMzNIQmckSyREJC1KZz04GyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?a2FuYWVp?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 GyRCIXk/NzUsJSohPCVXJXMheRsoQg0KDQoNCg0KDQobJEIheT13QC0kTiQqSVUkLTlnJCQkTkFq PGokciQkJEZEOiQxJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg0KDQobJEIhISEmSmc9OCEhQ0tALSROJF8hISMyIzA6 TTBKPmUhIRsoQg0KDQobJEIhISEmRmJNRiEhJCpHYyQkSiokS0lVJC05ZyRDJD8kaiEiJCpPQ0Fq PGohIiVhITwla00nQyMbKEINChskQiEhISEhISEhISE0cEtcJE89d0AtJE5KfSROTVdLPiRLJCpF eiQoJDkkazQ2JDgkRyQ5ISMbKEINCg0KGyRCISEhJjVrTT8hIT13QC0kTkp9JCskaUQ+QFwkKjx1 JDE8aCRqJC8kQCQ1JCQhI0pzPTckSzRYJDckXiQ3JEYbKEINChskQiEhISEhISEhISEkT0V2PFIk TzBsQFo0WE0/JDckRiQqJGokXiQ7JHMhIxsoQg0KDQobJEIhISF2ISFFUE8/JE9MNU5BJEckOSEj GyhCDQobJEIhISEhGyhCDQobJEIhISEmMX5KZ0BoISEbKEJodHRwOi8vdmx6aC5jb20vP2J0MDIN Cg0KGyRCISEbKEINCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQobJEI8dT8uNXFI XRsoQg0KY2luZGVyZWxsYV9pbmZvMTUyMTQ1QHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrDQoNCg0K From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 24 01:11:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4sjS-0003Yz-AL for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:11:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4sjR-0000j6-05 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:11:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6O4uBAJ011373; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6O4uBvC011372; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from luminous.mit.edu (luminous.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.179]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6O4u9i3011351; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by luminous.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 55003A6C06F; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:58:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: "Robert Sayre" Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" , "Paul Hoffman" , "Atom WG" Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Atom Threading Extensions' to Proposed Standard In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607181643r137efdd4wd84c887942d743c3@mail.gmail.com> (Robert Sayre's message of "Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:43:36 -0400") Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:18:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <68fba5c50606261735x478e1311s335e041fda54a298@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261912x167271o8e3bac03034fabdd@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50606261923k16913626gdc95348cc63e5851@mail.gmail.com> <68fba5c50607091843s2e0d3779y319e8cda2d09d3e6@mail.gmail.com> <51C57714-762C-48DB-8909-16F9DCB26DBD@osafoundation.org> <68fba5c50607181643r137efdd4wd84c887942d743c3@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 >>>>> "Robert" == Robert Sayre writes: Robert> On 7/18/06, Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> We don't have rules against such namespace choices. We could >> argue about whether or not we should have such rules, Robert> Well, there is a BCP about this. Do you believe the current draft violates a requirement of that bcp? What about a recommendation? From happyend_00@ocn.ne.jp Mon Jul 24 06:35:22 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4xmU-00056j-PP for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:35:22 -0400 Received: from [221.207.130.17] (helo=excite.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G4xmR-0004LI-DU for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:35:22 -0400 Received: from gxqkm2 (unknown [124.128.95.226]) by smtp14 (Coremail) with SMTP id QwXF9PLv7Y37FDCH.1 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:08:47 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [124.128.95.226] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCO2o+ZTpHNi8kTiNTI00lNSUkJUghKiEqGyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?bWFuYW1p?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 GyRCISMbKEIgGyRCISwbKEIgLiArGyRCISMhWjhCRGpKZz04ISoycTB3RVBPPyEhOkYzKyROJCpD TiRpJDshWyEjGyhCKhskQiEjGyhCIBskQiEsGyhCLiAbJEIhLBsoQiAsGyRCISMbKEIgLiAbJEIh eRsoQg0KDQobJEIhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhGyhCaHR0cDovL3ZsemguY29tLz9oYTQ2 DQobJEIhIRsoQg0KGyRCJDMkTkVZJCIkSiQ/TU0kS08vSnMkRyQ5ITMbKEIoGyRCISMhJiJPISYb KEIpGyRCJU4bKEINChskQiEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhQ0s9d0hmTigkcjlNJCgycTB3Smc9 OCRyMGw7fkUqJEslOSVIJUMlVyQ3JEYkJCQ/GyhCDQobJEIhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhIUQ2 P001JCU1JSQlSCRLRkNKTE9IJHJAXyQxJF4kNyQ/InYbKEINCg0KGyRCISEhISEhISEhISEhISEk IiRKJD9NTSRLJE9GQ0pMTSVCVCRIJDckRiQ0RVBPP0Z+JGo4fSRyMytAXxsoQg0KGyRCISEhISEh ISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhGyhCDQobJEIhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhIUQ+JSIlSSRiJDkk MD1QTWgkayEqTEJPRyVhITwlayRiTDUkNyROISFANT8/QDVMQxsoQg0KKy4gGyRCISMbKEIqGyRC ISMbKEIgGyRCISwbKEIuIBskQiEsGyhCLiAbJEIhXBsoQiAbJEIhIxsoQiAbJEIhLBsoQiAsGyRC ISMbKEIgLiAbJEIheRsoQiAbJEIhLBsoQi4gGyRCRD4lIiVJN08jUyNNJTUlJCVIISMbKEIqGyRC ISMbKEIgGyRCISwbKEIuIBskQiEsGyhCICwbJEIhIxsoQiAuDQobJEIheRsoQiAbJEIhISEhGyhC DQobJEIhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEhISEbKEJodHRwOi8vdmx6aC5j b20vP2hhNDYNCg0KDQobJEIhISEhRkNFNRsoQjEbJEIhJyFaNDBBNEw1TkFFUE8/IVs4ZSEiPXdA LSQrJGk8VU5pSVUkLSQqTTYkJCVhITwlayQiJGohIxsoQg0KGyRCISEhISEhGyhCDQobJEIhISEh RkNFNRsoQjIbJEIhJyQqOSUkLSRKIVpOeDAmISYjUyNNJVEhPCVIJUohPD5SMnA9aiFbTSVAaEZ+ Pmw4Ik14GyhCDQobJEIhISEhGyhCDQobJEIhISQzJE41ITJxJHJGKCQ3JEEkYyVAJWEkRyQ5JGgh KiEqISobKEINChskQiEhGyhCDQoNChskQiIoMGxEajJxMHc/dCRLQyMkNyReJDkkSCQ0RVBPPyRy RydDTiQ1JGwkSiQkPmw5ZyQsOGY6QiQkJF4kOSEjJDROOz41MjwkNRsoQg0KGyRCJCQhIxsoQg0K DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQobJEJLfCQsMGwkNDR1Sz4kRyRK JCQkKjVSTU0kSyVhITwlayQsRk8kJCRGJDckXiRDJEYkJCQ/JGkhIiQqPGo/dCRHJDkkLBsoQg0K Y2luZGVyZWxsYV9pbmZvMTUyMTQ1QHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrGyRCJF4kRyQ0TyJNbSQvJEAkNSQkISMb KEINCg== From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 24 15:27:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G565v-0000qg-PI for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:27:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G565u-00069I-D6 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:27:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6OJ72M6046516; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:07:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6OJ72dr046515; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:07:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from picoxs.picostation.net ([81.4.18.174]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6OJ6v3W046471 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:07:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sammy@picostation.net) Subject: Available Extensions Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:06:50 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6AF54.51BDB948" Message-ID: <63E8A27ED8BB1A4BAD1B17F4115ED3335B69@picoxs.picostation.net> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Available Extensions thread-index: AcavVFE5fhJ1s9psQgif8WuoHVDRWw== From: "Sammy" To: Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6AF54.51BDB948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. I would like to know if there are any extensions currently available for Atom 1.0 that would enable me to embed enclosure details with an Atom Entry document (I'm talking about the Media Link Entry). For instance, I'd like to be able to describe a video file duration and size. I recall a Yahoo RSS extension that did this. Is there something similar for Atom 1.0? If not, any suggestions? =20 Regards, Sammy Picostation Inc. =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6AF54.51BDB948 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello.

I would like to know if there are any extensions = currently available for Atom 1.0 that would enable me to embed enclosure details = with an Atom Entry document (I’m talking about the Media Link Entry). For = instance, I’d like to be able to describe a video file duration and size. I = recall a Yahoo RSS extension that did this. Is there something similar for Atom = 1.0? If not, any suggestions?

 

Regards,

Sammy

Picostation Inc.

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C6AF54.51BDB948-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 25 18:02:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5Uyc-00026S-6c for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:02:06 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5UyY-0003RK-Qj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:02:06 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PLkopE071053; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PLko5x071052; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PLkmE3071037 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bill@dehora.net) Received: from [192.168.2.180] (83-70-44-1.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.44.1]) by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CECDBA62 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:46:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:46:38 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom Syntax Subject: clarification: "escaped" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 The RFC says that the content should be 'escaped' for type 'text/html' in 3.1.1.2, but dosn't define what that is. Is it as defined in XML: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#dt-escape ? cheers Bill From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 25 18:18:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5VEn-00052E-CH for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:18:49 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5VEl-0006z1-0J for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:18:49 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PM5p7B072735; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PM5po1072734; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PM5maj072727 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o60so76063nfa for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:47 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=PHQH35+CCgUHtAQig3eTUE/o6nKEr5r/Bp0XIH+cIICtoO0ZMlIEBEVYU60B5yG+dJXq2AINw7DVwfhfNycngP+OWYpbnRQErsuAZ6OwJuEIvrZKx9IWSeJ5RDPzULMZtA0OJPm1d2ekmoS8UViLegS/l7IjrJ29F3/TPNXy0fo= Received: by 10.48.1.3 with SMTP id 3mr1231450nfa; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:05:47 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?=" Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" Cc: "Atom Syntax" In-Reply-To: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6PM5paj072729 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6PM5p7B072735 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On 7/25/06, Bill de h=D3ra wrote: > > The RFC says that the content should be 'escaped' for type 'text/html' > in 3.1.1.2, but dosn't define what that is. IIRC, WG discussion touched on this point, and the WG decided the definition wasn't important, given the example. Is there a problem you're hoping to clear up? --=20 Robert Sayre "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 25 19:19:22 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WBO-0003JZ-NV for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:19:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WBN-0007aJ-BH for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:19:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PN6wwh079327; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PN6wpY079326; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PN6vsh079284 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bill@dehora.net) Received: from [192.168.2.180] (83-70-44-1.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.44.1]) by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218F3DB6A3; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:06:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:06:46 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Sayre CC: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6PN6wwh079327 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Robert Sayre wrote: > On 7/25/06, Bill de h=D3ra wrote: >> >> The RFC says that the content should be 'escaped' for type 'text/html' >> in 3.1.1.2, but dosn't define what that is. >=20 > IIRC, WG discussion touched on this point, and the WG decided the > definition wasn't important, given the example. Is there a problem > you're hoping to clear up? It came up on django irc. I'd assumed for whatever reason that escaping=20 was limited to the usual XML suspects, but when asked about html content=20 I knew I didn't know for sure, especially wrt HTML character entities.=20 And I didn't know whether Atom code could get away with escaping < and &. cheers Bill From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 25 19:50:19 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WfL-0005nF-KK for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:50:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WfJ-0007gi-7q for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:50:19 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PNSmx9081918; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PNSm0K081917; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PNSj3i081903 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o60so92779nfa for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qtRKMbFTNYR1EF4b5ZJgagWWu/i13RZrt9RqwrNvOqfOMbWBvjtIz6XZYhXSEUabeQ2rH6Bn6rpApRJP9GNfsxNv3AIMRwFV2ZRqs0yu4QlmZsIH7TwDl+B6t2diD7PfB5CXakUqLE6uxc4p2o6FFpackjzImFKEyEPvqKl/Rko= Received: by 10.49.19.18 with SMTP id w18mr1282022nfi; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.40.10 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:28:44 -0400 From: "Robert Sayre" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bill_de_h=D3ra?=" Subject: Re: Re: clarification: "escaped" Cc: "Atom Syntax" In-Reply-To: <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6PNSm3i081911 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6PNSmx9081918 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 On 7/25/06, Bill de h=D3ra wrote: > > It came up on django irc. I'd assumed for whatever reason that escaping > was limited to the usual XML suspects, but when asked about html conten= t > I knew I didn't know for sure, especially wrt HTML character entities. > And I didn't know whether Atom code could get away with escaping < and = &. I'm not certain I understand the issue, but if the question concerns what happens when an Atom processor encounters a document with no declared entities and contains a title like this: <b> hmm<b> that is an XML fatal error, no doubt, as the ampersand before "nbsp" must be escaped. Concretely, Mozilla will give you a DOM with a non-breaking space if you write this: <b>&nbsp;hmm<b> --=20 Robert Sayre "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 25 20:05:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WuG-0008O6-HQ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:05:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5WuD-0003ah-U5 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:05:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PNpT6I084450; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:51:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PNpTJ5084449; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:51:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6PNpOCU084440 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:51:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Jul 2006 23:51:19 -0000 Received: from xdsl-213-196-252-192.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [213.196.252.192] by mail.gmx.net (mp043) with SMTP; 26 Jul 2006 01:51:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #163624 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:51:40 +0200 From: "A. Pagaltzis" To: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" Message-ID: <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6PNpT6I084450 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 * Robert Sayre [2006-07-26 01:45]: > On 7/25/06, Bill de h=C3=93ra wrote: > >And I didn't know whether Atom code could get away with > >escaping < and &. >=20 > <b> hmm<b> >=20 > that is an XML fatal error, no doubt, as the ampersand before > "nbsp" must be escaped. But he did say =E2=80=9Cescaping < and &=E2=80=9D, so it would be. I=E2=80= =99m not sure what Bill=E2=80=99s question even is. Regards, --=20 Aristotle Pagaltzis // From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 05:33:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5flw-0007og-K5 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:33:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5flv-0008EC-1K for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:33:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6Q9JsBr096137; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6Q9Jsal096136; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6Q9Jqik096107 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bill@dehora.net) Received: from [192.168.213.83] (unknown [213.94.211.166]) by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 292A6DBB5A for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:19:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <44C733A7.2060701@dehora.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:19:35 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?QmlsbCBkZSBow5NyYQ==?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> In-Reply-To: <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6Q9JsBr096137 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 A. Pagaltzis wrote: > * Robert Sayre [2006-07-26 01:45]: >> On 7/25/06, Bill de h=C3=93ra wrote: >>> And I didn't know whether Atom code could get away with >>> escaping < and &. >> <b> hmm<b> >> >> that is an XML fatal error, no doubt, as the ampersand before >> "nbsp" must be escaped. >=20 > But he did say =E2=80=9Cescaping < and &=E2=80=9D, so it would be. I=E2= =80=99m not sure > what Bill=E2=80=99s question even is. What do I escape, so I know what to unescape? cheers Bill From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 10:46:53 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5kez-0003oL-NJ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:46:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5kex-0007Za-Ad for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:46:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QEWm30061320; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:32:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6QEWmb7061319; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:32:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from alnrmhc11.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.225.94]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QEWjHr061292 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:32:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from antone@geckotribe.com) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-67-182-206-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net[67.182.206.93]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060726143240b14004hh7ue>; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:32:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <44C733A7.2060701@dehora.net> References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> <44C733A7.2060701@dehora.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9BB721EC-8035-4A9B-BA84-414E73339294@geckotribe.com> From: Antone Roundy Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:32:38 -0600 To: atom-syntax@imc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6QEWmHr061314 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6QEWm30061320 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Jul 26, 2006, at 3:19 AM, Bill de h=D3ra wrote: > A. Pagaltzis wrote: >> * Robert Sayre [2006-07-26 01:45]: >>> On 7/25/06, Bill de h=D3ra wrote: >>>> And I didn't know whether Atom code could get away with >>>> escaping < and &. >>> <b> hmm<b> >>> >>> that is an XML fatal error, no doubt, as the ampersand before >>> "nbsp" must be escaped. >> But he did say =93escaping < and &=94, so it would be. I=92m not sure >> what Bill=92s question even is. > > What do I escape, so I know what to unescape? The point is that after your XML parser has unescaped the content of =20 the element, it should be suitable for handling as HTML. Escape =20 whatever you have to ensure that the consumer gets HTML from their =20 XML parser. Converting & to & and < to < is sufficient =20 (assuming that you've started with HTML--if you've started with plain =20 text, then you need to double escape, but in that case, you should be =20 using type=3D"text" anyway to save yourself the trouble). You could =20 also convert > to >, " to ", ' to ' and any other =20 characters to numeric character references. Or you put the whole =20 thing in a CDATA block. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 11:47:41 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5lbp-0001pO-1P for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:47:41 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5lbm-0005MC-IB for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:47:41 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QFY6vu074009; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6QFY6dB074008; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k6QFY4Te073982 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 26 Jul 2006 15:33:58 -0000 Received: from xdsl-81-173-173-146.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [81.173.173.146] by mail.gmx.net (mp031) with SMTP; 26 Jul 2006 17:33:58 +0200 X-Authenticated: #163624 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:34:20 +0200 From: "A. Pagaltzis" To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" Message-ID: <20060726153420.GL32689@klangraum> Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> <44C733A7.2060701@dehora.net> <9BB721EC-8035-4A9B-BA84-414E73339294@geckotribe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9BB721EC-8035-4A9B-BA84-414E73339294@geckotribe.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 * Antone Roundy [2006-07-26 16:45]: > Or you put the whole thing in a CDATA block. Which is the easiest option, so long as you remember the edge case of having to turn any `]]>` sequences in the input into `]]>]]> From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 11:50:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5let-0005OO-AZ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:50:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5ler-0005VT-Qv for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:50:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QFTBqS073026; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6QFTBN3073025; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.74]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QFTA1V072998 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.78]) by bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:29:05 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:29:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 81.179.254.228 by BAY109-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:29:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [81.179.254.228] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: References: <44C6913E.2030802@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251505ka82a02at28d2c7c31535ece7@mail.gmail.com> <44C6A406.2030703@dehora.net> <68fba5c50607251628n74cb64e7gd1c29172a60801b9@mail.gmail.com> <20060725235139.GH32689@klangraum> <44C733A7.2060701@dehora.net> <9BB721EC-8035-4A9B-BA84-414E73339294@geckotribe.com> Subject: Re: clarification: "escaped" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:31:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2006 15:29:05.0053 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AA5CCD0:01C6B0C8] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Antone Roundy wrote: > Converting & to & and < to < is sufficient People keep missing this so I'm going to point it out one more time: there are certain rare circumstances when a right angle bracket (>) MUST be escaped so if you're just doing ampersands and left angle brackets that WON'T always be sufficient. To be safe it's best to always encode all three. As for CDATA sections, it's worth noting that you wouldn't have been able to syndicate this message thread if you always escaped everything with CDATA. Regards James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 15:50:01 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5pOL-0007AV-1P for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5pOI-0001pN-J9 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QJY1kH024762; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6QJY1D8024761; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6QJY0mk024755 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:34:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so1181003wra for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:33:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=OTaLLfPzjFi0SOYfquJcMcFDklohp7srm7XNQloKIzoWKpeTnzQ1xASz90Ji6iFNBC0+imYomk6rWod7f38yv9zltn4KO48XFAI2oyjpR6Z+4lmffC4wo6xl/Vy2mosIoqJ2qLhzNWSGquuQ1LYBA+HJNQEk7iDmCBSs3cMB2Dw= Received: by 10.54.111.2 with SMTP id j2mr7050046wrc; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 9sm2385297wrl.2006.07.26.12.33.58; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:33:55 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax Subject: Language Negotiation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Quick question regarding language negotiation with feeds... By way of example, IBM's internal blogging infrastructure supports bloggers in every locale IBM does business around the world, meaning that there are posts in many different languages (japanese, french, german, chinese, etc). We have a dashboard/planet view that lists all of the most recent posts across the entire system. The content of each post is presented in it's original language, but the metadata in the feed is always in English, so we end up with things like... Dashboard ... ... ... So, given this, what (c|sh)ould be the expected behavior if a client includes an Accept-Language: fr header, for instance, when GET'ing the dashboard feed? Now imagine that we start to apply machine translation to entries, so that we can say, give me all entries, but translate them to French, or English, etc. Would that be best done using conneg or separate URIs? - James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 20:52:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5u6l-0001w2-RJ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:52:11 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5u6k-0001hh-2O for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:52:11 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R0aZRh084832; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R0aZoh084831; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R0aDjJ084762 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20060727003607.CXOK1865.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:36:07 +0100 Received: from cpc1-stok1-0-0-cust704.bagu.cable.ntl.com ([86.4.230.193]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20060727003607.ODII11710.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cpc1-stok1-0-0-cust704.bagu.cable.ntl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:36:07 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:36:02 +0100 From: David Powell X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.73 Release Candidate 1) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> To: James M Snell CC: atom-syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation In-Reply-To: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Wednesday, July 26, 2006, 8:33:55 PM, James M Snell wrote: > Now imagine that we start to apply machine translation to entries, so > that we can say, give me all entries, but translate them to French, or > English, etc. Would that be best done using conneg or separate URIs? I'd go for seperate URLs. Server-driven conneg (SDN) has its uses, but for a protocol like atom (-syntax), the benefits are very limited, and the risks and costs are high. With client-driven negotiation (CDN), the client and server both have a better understanding of what they are asking for and what is available - there is less risk of anything going wrong. The only advantage of SDN, is that it selects what it thinks is the best feed without any user interaction - but that is something that only needs to be done once anyway. With SDN, you'll need to employ the Vary header, which can adversely affect caching. Hosted services (eg Bloglines) won't work unless they store multiple seperate lists of entries and feed data for each set of request headers that the request varies over; this seems very optimistic. If you want to use a user's language preference to provide them with a localized feed, I'd do it at the HTML level - use accept headers to provide the correct autodiscovery link, or even better, to sort the list of multiple links in a suitable order. What are you going to do about ids BTW? I'd probably mint new ids for the translated entries and feeds, and employ some sort of link/extension if you need to be able to associate them. -- Dave From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 26 22:51:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5vya-00036Q-J3 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:51:52 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G5vyZ-0001mb-6g for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:51:52 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R2f46T011805; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R2f4gR011804; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.239]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R2f3R8011794 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so1087407wra for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NsGCuth0P/XNshgzFVeDiazvJN9OtRCN2wfUw6Wu2tun9StLDmVRkGMuzasA7b2Gq3sALytQEeYK9IMLfSPxwOwrc+UXADQ+IJ5ogNqKd/iyEl4TANTjQT5xX/ZQzyrDfKPG70OEvScKLO8QbTcOhTf7501MwRDjew5iZKuO3oI= Received: by 10.54.113.19 with SMTP id l19mr127302wrc; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 28sm768458wrl.2006.07.26.19.41.01; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:40:58 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> In-Reply-To: <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 David Powell wrote: > [snip] > Hosted services (eg Bloglines) won't work unless they store multiple > seperate lists of entries and feed data for each set of request > headers that the request varies over; this seems very optimistic. > This is perhaps the single most important reason for using CDN, at least for now. > If you want to use a user's language preference to provide them with a > localized feed, I'd do it at the HTML level - use accept headers to > provide the correct autodiscovery link, or even better, to sort the > list of multiple links in a suitable order. > And within feed documents in the form of language-qualified alternate links (e.g., , , etc) > > What are you going to do about ids BTW? I'd probably mint new ids for > the translated entries and feeds, and employ some sort of > link/extension if you need to be able to associate them. > I'd also lean towards minting new ids for translated resources. - James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 03:11:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G601X-0000DQ-F3 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:11:11 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G601W-00062p-2o for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:11:11 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R6wrdg064172; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R6wr8H064171; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.199]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R6wo72064157 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so71922nzh for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SBL9Uu/XMAf8N+W4IEdJcRM79el0zDxkckiZDy34vMGitWsU1muGUkyoY5q4zF8kissKxUHsGIYafzCLx+4L/pWI4/Uj5MC1k0jHUNR3XzV5vj1EzqUk9ckOrPTIhXEic8xiOgcr0IaQxQrrbovt6en+As4ATOi2W3+s+u7nSJ8= Received: by 10.65.154.4 with SMTP id g4mr8389731qbo; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.11.14 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:58:49 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation In-Reply-To: <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6R6wr72064165 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6R6wrdg064172 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 2006/7/27, James M Snell: > > And within feed documents in the form of language-qualified alternate > links (e.g., , rel=3D"self" hreflang=3D"de" href=3D"..." />, etc) You rather meant , weren't yo= u? ;-) From RFC4287: 1. The value "alternate" signifies that the IRI in the value of the href attribute identifies an alternate version of the resource described by the containing element. [=E2=80=A6] 3. The value "self" signifies that the IRI in the value of the href attribute identifies a resource equivalent to the containing element. Here, you're linking to alternate versions of the resource (in alternate languages), not to an "equivalent" resource (it's not equivalent, because it's in another language). =E2=80=A6using xml:base rather than would have been = so much cleaner=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=A6or maybe at least rather a or , because the rationale of rel=3D"self" were "if a= n aggregator is given a copy of a feed without information about its original IRI, how can it find which URI to subscribe to?"=E2=80=A6 --=20 Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 03:39:01 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G60ST-0007pL-Mr for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:39:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G60SS-00082q-9g for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:39:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R7P7FX069321; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:25:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R7P7Ic069318; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:25:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ixion.tartarus.org (ixion.tartarus.org [82.211.108.121]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R7P1cb069287 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from james@ixion.tartarus.org) Received: from james by ixion.tartarus.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) for atom-syntax@imc.org id 1G60Ev-0001V9-00; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:25:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:25:01 +0100 From: James Aylett To: atom-syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation Message-ID: <20060727072501.GC3028@tartarus.org> Mail-Followup-To: James Aylett , atom-syntax References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 07:40:58PM -0700, James M Snell wrote: > > What are you going to do about ids BTW? I'd probably mint new ids for > > the translated entries and feeds, and employ some sort of > > link/extension if you need to be able to associate them. > > I'd also lean towards minting new ids for translated resources. This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them different ids. On the other hand, a way of subscribing to one feed that sometimes publishes in both English and (say) French, and only reading one translation of each would be handy. That's probably rel='alternate' within the atom:entry, though. James -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ James Aylett xapian.org james@tartarus.org uncertaintydivision.org From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 04:24:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61AQ-0000Gl-Fw for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:24:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61AP-00078n-3Z for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:24:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R8E0GJ079954; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:14:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R8E09g079953; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:14:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R8Dw9u079915 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:13:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k6R8DvWm007883; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:13:57 -0500 Received: (from apache@localhost) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id k6R8DvBI007881; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:13:57 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: mail1.webfaction.com: apache set sender to sh@defuze.org using -f Received: from 194.221.74.7 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user platom_sylvain) by mail1.webfaction.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:13:57 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <11200.194.221.74.7.1153988037.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> In-Reply-To: References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> <20060727072501.GC3028@tartarus.org> <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:13:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Language Negotiation From: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" To: "Thomas Broyer" Cc: "Atom-Syntax" Reply-To: sh@defuze.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6-7.el3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6R8E0GJ079954 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 > > 2006/7/27, Sylvain Hellegouarch: >> >> > This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I >> > agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different >> > contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them >> > different ids. >> >> True. If you buy a book in English and then the translation of that bo= ok >> in a different language you will end up with two books having each the= ir >> own ISBN. > > Well, actually, once a book is published, if you later update it, > you'll have to use a new ISBN, so that's probably not a good analogy=E2= =80=A6 > Indeed but wasn't I only talking about different language version of a book? I haven't talked about updating a book ;) - Sylvain From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 04:36:16 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61Ls-0008Pn-Is for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:36:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61Lr-00080v-4M for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:36:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R7Z9Us071661; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R7Z9RV071660; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R7Z4eW071640 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k6R7YwIj006062; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:34:59 -0500 Received: (from apache@localhost) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id k6R7YruQ006056; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:34:53 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: mail1.webfaction.com: apache set sender to sh@defuze.org using -f Received: from 194.221.74.7 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user platom_sylvain) by mail1.webfaction.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:34:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> In-Reply-To: <20060727072501.GC3028@tartarus.org> References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> <20060727072501.GC3028@tartarus.org> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:34:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Language Negotiation From: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" To: "James Aylett" , "atom-syntax" Reply-To: sh@defuze.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6-7.el3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 > This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I > agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different > contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them > different ids. True. If you buy a book in English and then the translation of that book in a different language you will end up with two books having each their own ISBN. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 04:55:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61ek-0004lB-Ql for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:55:46 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G61Ap-00079C-1H for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:24:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G611L-0004vL-FP for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:15:05 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R84i8m077678; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R84iam077677; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R84epn077670 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i21so1341111wra for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:40 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AB/UPo1FhkLlSXB6C5mOCCOw2ui1zDHnP1iCTL55Y1e/VPkH8x9/fC1fzvAC3PWdyWzN+wrg1hjoIAMEfhDix1FUY+wrtVTMCZ2AaXWUIROiOm677JfEK9tMnkF2WD3WAn1vV5jN4U237xUyWrEmmO1dd9pPDrFIltf44EQyouc= Received: by 10.65.122.20 with SMTP id z20mr6853069qbm; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.11.14 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:04:40 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation In-Reply-To: <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> <20060727072501.GC3028@tartarus.org> <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6R84hpn077671 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id k6R84i8m077678 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 2006/7/27, Sylvain Hellegouarch: > > > This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I > > agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different > > contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them > > different ids. > > True. If you buy a book in English and then the translation of that boo= k > in a different language you will end up with two books having each thei= r > own ISBN. Well, actually, once a book is published, if you later update it, you'll have to use a new ISBN, so that's probably not a good analogy=E2=80= =A6 --=20 Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 05:19:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G621l-000579-6d for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:19:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G621b-0005Md-RU for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:19:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R97xIU089929; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:07:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R97xK4089928; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:07:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R97vbm089806 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:07:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.118] by pop.ironclad.net.au with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:44:19 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:43:07 +1000 Subject: Re: Language Negotiation From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 >> This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I >> agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different >> contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them >> different ids. what would happen if you used conneg on the @rel='self' link (to the document), asking for a different language? e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 05:52:17 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G62XR-0001cU-Oa for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:52:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G62XQ-0003Op-Bz for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:52:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R9gB0e096482; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6R9gBdY096480; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.198]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6R9gAh1096472 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id q3so35411nzb for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fYNVxmnKAMCetFSj5cXsWCtLOlCameBviZlCecFX9s8ZMZq3S0PFm0Tb6QCk5UO7SPbIuh8V+ie1VRvRCwEy2zs61wqZ1lISMT9bpGsVWy2pNfzQCyNdhCdqARUeE61nTwK0N2ayU3uHMg1s2DJw00LifducPnlQiBKLT1mwNvk= Received: by 10.65.122.1 with SMTP id z1mr8750979qbm; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.11.14 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:42:09 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <15642.194.221.74.7.1153985686.squirrel@mail1.webfaction.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 2006/7/27, Eric Scheid: > > >> This took me quite a while to think through, but in the end I > >> agree. Translations of a resource will often have slightly different > >> contents in terms of the semantics of what is said, so I'd give them > >> different ids. > > what would happen if you used conneg on the @rel='self' link (to the > document), asking for a different language? You mean, sending an Accept-Language request-header? 406 Not Acceptable or return the entry even if it does not match the "accepted languages". http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html#sec10.4.7 -- Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 10:38:57 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G670r-0002FA-1v for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:38:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G670h-00013w-M7 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:38:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REQ8qk057162; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6REQ8EZ057161; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from pop.ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.25]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REQ5P4056981 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.118] by pop.ironclad.net.au with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:50:28 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:49:15 +1000 Subject: Re: Language Negotiation From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On 27/7/06 7:42 PM, "Thomas Broyer" wrote: >> what would happen if you used conneg on the @rel='self' link (to the >> document), asking for a different language? > > You mean, sending an Accept-Language request-header? > > 406 Not Acceptable or return the entry even if it does not match the > "accepted languages". > http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html#sec10.4.7 so, do not return the requested language alternate? e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 11:00:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G67Ls-0001SU-AG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:00:40 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G67Lq-00042c-VF for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:00:40 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REeilR059939; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6REeiuu059938; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REegZB059931 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id q3so58441nzb for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=niRuoW8R+daossX6CEB0cWnvwjQ1IxQtTB3bIhKAZF72AV4pvteRHjaMuUbvAFIcKbKIgLng8eRERC44WvMbT32eEc3FfRe/lNH0SDp1rVXSCeU60q5kDKdB/Q1fSmrGrEzoDJC90Aa5VQYw7CqUluMJf9VbGTS4LuYPEGovGNs= Received: by 10.65.138.4 with SMTP id q4mr8977921qbn; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.11.14 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:40:42 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 2006/7/27, Eric Scheid: > >> what would happen if you used conneg on the @rel='self' link (to the > >> document), asking for a different language? > > > > You mean, sending an Accept-Language request-header? > > > > 406 Not Acceptable or return the entry even if it does not match the > > "accepted languages". > > http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html#sec10.4.7 > > so, do not return the requested language alternate? Hmm, sorry, I think I didn't correctly understood you first question... ...at least I don't understand the second... -- Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 27 11:58:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G68G7-0008JB-O8 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:58:47 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G67U2-0005pt-IT for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:09:06 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G67Fv-0005PU-C2 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:54:32 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REg4Zv060281; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6REg4fp060280; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6REg32v060274 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d42so285742pyd for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:41:54 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WK0MOtI2ns8IRtTev9ukPr2iJLSpLgjr7G7zQwF4vTdTV+O6s+N/Ntfka/sbil1tawj4DUI9DG5cnEEi0zAUF7rF7ZYpPkVccEZznVJ5zfbuhvBznrRvfYeGik+LTJoB3W9+Krs9frcf1iWU1vYp6EHLbm9zH7Nr2QabNRNAMrk= Received: by 10.35.57.5 with SMTP id j5mr13260028pyk; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id w25sm515357pyw.2006.07.27.07.41.53; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44C8D0AF.3030807@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:41:51 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Language Negotiation References: <44C7C3A3.1060909@gmail.com> <86522039.20060727013602@djpowell.net> <44C827BA.70702@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Thomas Broyer wrote: > > 2006/7/27, James M Snell: >> >> And within feed documents in the form of language-qualified alternate >> links (e.g., , > rel="self" hreflang="de" href="..." />, etc) > > You rather meant type="application/atom+xml" href="..." /> hreflang="de" type="application/atom+xml" href="..." />, weren't you? > ;-) > Doh! 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