From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 12:13:40 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1QjE-0002f5-OE
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:13:40 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1QjA-0007Cw-AP
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:13:40 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01GvrO1067107
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 09:57:53 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01Gvra5067106;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 09:57:53 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01Gviu9067100
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 09:57:52 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C712F19116076;
	Mon,  1 Jan 2007 17:57:42 +0100 (CET)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 17:59:25 +0100
To: "Geoffrey Sneddon" <foolistbar@googlemail.com>,
        atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0666-1, 31.12.2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l01GvrO1067107
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22


On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:38:33 +0100, Geoffrey Sneddon =20
<foolistbar@googlemail.com> wrote:

> If we come across something like: "<description type=3D"html"><![CDATA=20
> [<base url=3D"http://example.com/"><a href=3D"test.html">Test Link</a>]=
]=20
>  ></description>",

Yikes!

> I assume the link should point to <http://example.com/test.html>, due
> to the <base> element? I assume, likewise, that <base> would take
> precedence over xml:base, as it is directly within the content.

Like James Holderness wrote, the <base> element has no place in an HTML =20
fragment, so its meaning is (although most browsers wrongfully supports =20
its presence anywhere in an HTML document) unspecified. The correct base =
=20
URI to use here is the closest xml:base in the ancestor vector or the =20
document's base URI.

What's the use case for not using xml:base here?

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 13:02:10 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1RUA-0000Qy-MZ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:02:10 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1RU8-0003za-3U
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:02:10 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01HlnQD070672
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:47:49 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01HlnAZ070671;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:47:49 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.239])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01Hlm7H070665
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:47:48 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from foolistbar@googlemail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so5268108wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:47:48 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=googlemail.com;
        h=received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer;
        b=LDOGfkZbJ3GVCcZ7XsnxrZT2zvNLotpV/6qlaqUK+Z1u81PYbNgHc9xp2tn0kmrpDToPNyULkkQCL6uBmKP/PaIp/g0+no33u/AZwytucjL3GRrAe+7xXB9eBAjDnXa1pdvVgFpwXq/RNCIO1PxA7rRBx/W8yStn1eUhmENVy24=
Received: by 10.90.115.4 with SMTP id n4mr13909388agc.1167673667763;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:47:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.0.7? ( [86.139.123.225])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18sm27802514agb.2007.01.01.09.47.46;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:47:47 -0800 (PST)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
In-Reply-To: <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
From: Geoffrey Sneddon <foolistbar@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:47:43 +0000
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>,
        atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l01Hlm7H070666
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l01HlnQD070672
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034



On 1 Jan 2007, at 16:59, Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg wrote:

> Like James Holderness wrote,

Eek! I should keep up with emails better!

> the <base> element has no place in an HTML fragment, so its meaning =20
> is (although most browsers wrongfully supports its presence =20
> anywhere in an HTML document) unspecified.

Web Applications 1.0 (keeping with the real world) defines that it =20
should be moved to HEAD within the DOM tree.

Why, may I ask, MUST (under the RFC 2119 definition) HTML content be =20
a fragment ("HTML markup within SHOULD be such that it could validly =20
appear directly within an HTML <DIV> element, after unescaping." - =20
note the word SHOULD, not MUST, implying that you can have a full =20
HTML document within)?

> The correct base URI to use here is the closest xml:base in the =20
> ancestor vector or the document's base URI.
>
> What's the use case for not using xml:base here?

I don't know - this is just an example of a feed I came across a few =20
weeks back.


- Geoffrey Sneddon






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 13:39:15 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1S43-0005Dx-VX
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:39:15 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1S42-0002DQ-JZ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:39:15 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01IJU2I072637
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:19:30 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01IJU0B072634;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:19:30 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01IJRnX072602
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:19:28 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m18so6378321nfc
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:19:25 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=XagyDPDWk18F72W3gCOp3YrqIJxqSQZ0r7111FNdFcrCd8hGcSiXW7Zpeg+9Bdse+2uUxHNqsNHldKUva0Q5G3DNMvIOn3StEeQ8Ue2o95/GYXNT2VgmEy6yIkBa5yK+4Ufj9Fx+PBWtadUXUZkd4aJzYIH4J0vusNvQ4Ie/fUo=
Received: by 10.48.242.19 with SMTP id p19mr22186979nfh.1167675565216;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.49.28.6 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20701011019m65ff2271ucabb352d2830aef6@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:19:25 +0100
From: "Thomas Broyer" <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom-Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
In-Reply-To: <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com>
	 <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark>
	 <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l01IJSnX072611
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l01IJU2I072637
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464


2007/1/1, Geoffrey Sneddon:
>
> On 1 Jan 2007, at 16:59, Asbj=C3=B8rn Ulsberg wrote:
>
> > the <base> element has no place in an HTML fragment, so its meaning
> > is (although most browsers wrongfully supports its presence
> > anywhere in an HTML document) unspecified.
>
> Web Applications 1.0 (keeping with the real world) defines that it
> should be moved to HEAD within the DOM tree.

I suppose HTML within Atom is rather processed as "innerHTML", so
there is no "head pointer", and the <base> element is just appended as
a child of the current node (along with a "parse error" !)

> Why, may I ask, MUST (under the RFC 2119 definition) HTML content be
> a fragment ("HTML markup within SHOULD be such that it could validly
> appear directly within an HTML <DIV> element, after unescaping." -
> note the word SHOULD, not MUST, implying that you can have a full
> HTML document within)?

Yes, you could, in the sense that the Atom document wouldn't be
"invalid", but you shouldn't expect it to be processed as a "full HTML
document".

The "SHOULD" implies that Atom processors are OK if they process HTML
"content" as "innerHTML" on a <div> element.

--=20
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 13:56:02 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1SKI-0006kE-G2
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:56:02 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1SKC-0006aO-Vl
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:56:02 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01IdsqX073572
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:39:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01IdsHx073571;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:39:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l01IdqEk073565
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:39:53 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 01 Jan 2007 18:39:52 -0000
Received: from xdsl-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp048) with SMTP; 01 Jan 2007 19:39:52 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:39:51 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Message-ID: <20070101183951.GC31181@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
Organization: haphazard
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l01IdsqX073572
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2


* Geoffrey Sneddon <foolistbar@googlemail.com> [2007-01-01 19:00]:
> On 1 Jan 2007, at 16:59, Asbj=C3=B8rn Ulsberg wrote:
> >the <base> element has no place in an HTML fragment, so its
> >meaning is (although most browsers wrongfully supports its
> >presence anywhere in an HTML document) unspecified.
>=20
> Web Applications 1.0 (keeping with the real world) defines that it =20
> should be moved to HEAD within the DOM tree.

Thereby, of course, breaking the links in any other entries
rendered in the same page by a web-based aggregator, f.ex.

> Why, may I ask, MUST (under the RFC 2119 definition) HTML content be =20
> a fragment ("HTML markup within SHOULD be such that it could validly =20
> appear directly within an HTML <DIV> element, after unescaping." - =20
> note the word SHOULD, not MUST, implying that you can have a full =20
> HTML document within)?

Because many aggregators (most, very likely) do not render items
in isolation, but rather in some sort of collection, either
across feeds as a =E2=80=9Criver of news=E2=80=9D or even just several wi=
thin a
single feed. (Weblog engines do that when showing the front page
of the weblog or archive for particular intervals.) They will
usually strip any header-level information from your entry, so
putting such elements in the content will usually fail to achieve
what you wanted =E2=80=93 hence the SHOULD.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 14:35:58 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Sww-0005WZ-AY
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:35:58 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Swt-0004GJ-RH
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:35:58 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01JMoS1077637
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:22:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01JMo0v077636;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:22:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.232])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01JMnNK077630
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:22:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 57so1992455wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:22:49 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=H20tIHYb9bP8itaAlstcB6CGwvWO/9tsv9ndlvkZKlb7Dr98SWg8k/muAY6BaTNUNVmLGYH46eleDKxH84olXeRb+Fhm30U2X77dmNtS/vzsUMKNc5hZ1/shgPPQ5EOKE9hnr6Og0kp1fnZuE1nlQMhLcUWVHS/D7LvLQ//PjL0=
Received: by 10.90.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr4918029aga.1167679368979;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:22:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.18 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:22:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:22:48 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "Geoffrey Sneddon" <foolistbar@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_115196_16670665.1167679368905"
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com>
	 <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark>
	 <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: cca1ba1776c8b519
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5


------=_Part_115196_16670665.1167679368905
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/1/07, Geoffrey Sneddon <foolistbar@googlemail.com> wrote:> Why, may I
ask, MUST (under the RFC 2119 definition) HTML
> content be a fragment ("HTML markup within SHOULD be such
> that it could validly appear directly within an HTML <DIV>
> element, after unescaping." - note the word SHOULD, not
> MUST, implying that you can have a full HTML document within)?

What would you do if you wanted to display a feed of 10 entries in
"newspaper" style (i.e. all entries in a single HTML page) yet each of the
entries had a different BASE defined? It wouldn't do you much good to move
all the base elements to the HEAD of the DOM tree -- you'd just end up with
a mess. If you want a local base, then use xml:base. That's what it is for.

The same problem exists for other page-global stuff. For instance, XHTML
modularization is useless if you're creating Atom entries since that stuff
relies on elements in HEAD but, an Atom entry ain't got no head....

Remember as well that not all of the entries in a feed document need be
created by the same person. For instance, with aggregated or synthetic
feeds, you end up with entries written by many different authors who have no
chance of negotiating how they will divide the global resources that might
be used to display their entries. Because some entries may be signed, you
can't simply say something like "just rewrite the entries" -- that would
break the signatures.

It is good that Atom entries should be fragments. That increases to a great
degree the variety of environments in which Atom entries are useful. If you
feel constrained by this, I would suggest that you push on those who define
HTML and get them to provide mechanisms for allowing fragment-local
expression of things that at this time can only be expressed as page-global.
(Yes, I realize this will take some time.)

bob wyman

------=_Part_115196_16670665.1167679368905
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/1/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Geoffrey Sneddon</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:foolistbar@googlemail.com">foolistbar@googlemail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<div><div>&gt; Why, may I ask, MUST (under the RFC 2119 definition) HTML<br>
&gt; content be a fragment (&quot;HTML markup within SHOULD be such<br>&gt; that it could validly appear directly within an HTML &lt;DIV&gt;<br>&gt; element, after unescaping.&quot; - note the word SHOULD, not<br>&gt; MUST, implying that you can have a full HTML document within)?
<br><br>What would you do if you wanted to display a feed of 10 entries in &quot;newspaper&quot; style (i.e. all entries in a single HTML page) yet each of the entries had a different BASE defined? It wouldn&#39;t do you much good to move all the base elements to the HEAD of the DOM tree -- you&#39;d just end up with a mess. If you want a local base, then use xml:base. That&#39;s what it is for.
<br><br>The same problem exists for other page-global stuff. For instance, XHTML modularization is useless if you&#39;re creating Atom entries since that stuff relies on elements in HEAD but, an Atom entry ain&#39;t got no head....
<br><br>Remember as well that not all of the entries in a feed document need be created by the same person. For instance, with aggregated or synthetic feeds, you end up with entries written by many different authors who have no chance of negotiating how they will divide the global resources that might be used to display their entries. Because some entries may be signed, you can&#39;t simply say something like &quot;just rewrite the entries&quot; -- that would break the signatures.
<br><br>It is good that Atom entries should be fragments. That increases to a great degree the variety of environments in which Atom entries are useful. If you feel constrained by this, I would suggest that you push on those who define HTML and get them to provide mechanisms for allowing fragment-local expression of things that at this time can only be expressed as page-global. (Yes, I realize this will take some time.)
<br><br></div></div>bob wyman<br><br>

------=_Part_115196_16670665.1167679368905--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 15:38:19 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1TvH-0003QY-4s
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:38:19 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1TvF-00066c-Oy
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:38:19 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01KMcPC084255
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:22:38 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01KMcgH084254;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:22:38 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.225])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01KMbRs084248
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:22:38 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from foolistbar@googlemail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so5296894wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:22:37 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=googlemail.com;
        h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer;
        b=ujELKU45yWZ7XQPWRMSyulB8JjwxLjHG+6rHNvii5+GLc0Xi59RI6wCtAkPFRBvVxoCGuuRzQwocH7eiJC2GDHcgNE4ZLYZXtut/1e1CQJpTXAXhBym58ceQzwHLFVsjEXhMio6coNYoXukHvA++SlHCkE5zb/glNrnjyEpPGSM=
Received: by 10.70.17.1 with SMTP id 1mr8812139wxq.1167682957359;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:22:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.0.7? ( [86.139.123.225])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 7sm34526942wrl.2007.01.01.12.22.36;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:22:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com>
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Geoffrey Sneddon <foolistbar@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:22:33 +0000
To: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f



On 1 Jan 2007, at 19:22, Bob Wyman wrote:

> If you want a local base, then use xml:base. That's what it is for.

When the spec says you SHOULD treat html content as if it were in a  
<DIV>, it adds a certain amount of unclarity as how such Atom feeds  
should be parsed. I'm asking merely to see if there's any consensus  
as to how it should be done. I have no control over the vast majority  
of feeds out there - telling me to use xml:base will make no  
difference, as I have no control over the feed in which I found a  
<base>.


- Geoffrey Sneddon





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 16:06:48 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1UMq-0003oE-8h
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:06:48 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1UMl-0007Ap-JN
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:06:48 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01Kl0YV086499
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:47:01 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01Kl011086498;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:47:00 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from sam.opera.com (sam.opera.com [193.69.113.81])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01Kkw4T086484
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:46:59 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from annevk@opera.com)
Received: from id-c0020 (c529db1cc.cable.wanadoo.nl [82.157.177.204])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by sam.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l01KksFT006023
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:46:55 GMT
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 21:46:54 +0100
To: "Geoffrey Sneddon" <foolistbar@googlemail.com>, "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
From: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
Organization: Opera Software
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020>
In-Reply-To: <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32


On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 21:22:33 +0100, Geoffrey Sneddon  
<foolistbar@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> If you want a local base, then use xml:base. That's what it is for.
>
> When the spec says you SHOULD treat html content as if it were in a  
> <DIV>, it adds a certain amount of unclarity as how such Atom feeds  
> should be parsed. I'm asking merely to see if there's any consensus as  
> to how it should be done. I have no control over the vast majority of  
> feeds out there - telling me to use xml:base will make no difference, as  
> I have no control over the feed in which I found a <base>.

Hmm, the same is true for a large number of other cases. Atom in general  
is ambigious at best in terms of error handling.

I suppose you could raise this on the WHATWG list. Asking what happens if  
you set innerHTML of a <div> where the setted value has both a <base> and  
an <a> for instance.


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>
<http://www.opera.com/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 18:44:00 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Woy-0005FT-6c
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:44:00 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Wou-0000Bq-MJ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:44:00 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01NRpP5098874
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:27:51 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l01NRpHP098873;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:27:51 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bay0-omc1-s38.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s38.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.110])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l01NRoOJ098867
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:27:51 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.148]) by bay0-omc1-s38.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
	 Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:27:50 -0800
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:27:50 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 85.210.183.132 by BAY120-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:27:48 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [85.210.183.132]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "atom-syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:29:48 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jan 2007 23:27:50.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[73F6A160:01C72DFC]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3


Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:
> When the spec says you SHOULD treat html content as if it were in a 
> <DIV>, it adds a certain amount of unclarity as how such Atom feeds 
> should be parsed. I'm asking merely to see if there's any consensus  as to 
> how it should be done. I have no control over the vast majority  of feeds 
> out there - telling me to use xml:base will make no  difference, as I have 
> no control over the feed in which I found a  <base>.

Do you still have a copy of the feed you encountered that was using a base 
element? I'd be curious to see whether its links and images would fail to 
work if you didn't take that base into account? Because if that's the case, 
I'd recommend supporting it (i.e. the base element takes precedence over 
xml:base or however else the current base uri is determined).

In other words, do whatever it takes to get that particular feed to work. 
This obviously isn't a common scenario, and it's arguably not a valid feed, 
so whatever you do you can't be faulted. Unless you find more data 
suggesting this is a bad idea, it seems to me it would make sense to at 
least get your one known example to work.

MHO.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 19:14:37 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1XIb-00078T-N8
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:14:37 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1XIZ-0008TK-Ny
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:14:37 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0200DIM002942
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:00:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0200DCT002941;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:00:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.232])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0200CYJ002933
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:00:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so5337204wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:00:12 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=LGt7Q2fooRIcQR9at/2l3DWCeewcLKMjhaatMUI0x+BdXfISd/dCBQY+QY4y0IN9nchwTUHvY1tK2HxbiBnsZ97j0kpuELoVIUF6XkOUEJzFXbE5a6jNT9/yYJGU8ikMrWpGsW2ffWbXeYixCZj56Ojmgsw4HSkHqje7S6KvWXQ=
Received: by 10.90.118.12 with SMTP id q12mr14040071agc.1167696012371;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:00:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 7sm28242636aga.2007.01.01.16.00.11;
        Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:00:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <4599A089.5020209@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:00:09 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061115)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a


-1. If there's anything we can learn from the mess that is RSS, at a
certain point feed consumers should be allowed to say simply that a
buggy feed is a buggy feed and that it falls on the responsibility of
the feed publisher to get things right.

- James

James Holderness wrote:
> [snip]
> Do you still have a copy of the feed you encountered that was using a
> base element? I'd be curious to see whether its links and images would
> fail to work if you didn't take that base into account? Because if
> that's the case, I'd recommend supporting it (i.e. the base element
> takes precedence over xml:base or however else the current base uri is
> determined).
> 
> In other words, do whatever it takes to get that particular feed to
> work. This obviously isn't a common scenario, and it's arguably not a
> valid feed, so whatever you do you can't be faulted. Unless you find
> more data suggesting this is a bad idea, it seems to me it would make
> sense to at least get your one known example to work.
> 
> MHO.
> 
> Regards
> James
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 19:35:32 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Xcq-0003tj-8m
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:35:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1Xcl-0006fK-Ss
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:35:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l020LMts004533
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:21:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l020LMjJ004532;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:21:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fimug.fi (mail.fimug.fi [212.149.83.83])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l020LLcT004525
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:21:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from hsivonen@iki.fi)
Received: from [84.239.175.104] (a175-104.24online.fi [84.239.175.104])
	by posti.fidisk.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EED12A54D2;
	Tue,  2 Jan 2007 02:21:19 +0200 (EET)
In-Reply-To: <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi>
Cc: "Geoffrey Sneddon" <foolistbar@googlemail.com>, "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>,
        atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 02:21:09 +0200
To: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


On Jan 1, 2007, at 22:46, Anne van Kesteren wrote:

> I suppose you could raise this on the WHATWG list. Asking what  
> happens if you set innerHTML of a <div> where the setted value has  
> both a <base> and an <a> for instance.

Interesting. I hadn't thought that Atom was supposed to use innerHTML  
parsing. I'd have said that you prepend "<!DOCTYPE html><title></ 
title><div>" to what travels in the feed and append "</div>" to it,  
parse the resulting string and grab the first div in the document order.

-- 
Henri Sivonen
hsivonen@iki.fi
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 01 20:28:04 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1YRg-0001EQ-92
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 20:28:04 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1YRe-0005Ea-Rn
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2007 20:28:04 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l021AHR9007204
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:10:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l021AHYM007203;
	Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:10:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bay0-omc1-s27.bay0.hotmail.com (s1.bay2.hotmail.com [65.54.246.99] (may be forged))
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l021AGBh007197
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:10:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.155]) by bay0-omc1-s27.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
	 Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:10:15 -0800
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:10:15 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY120-DAV170F19112F1A3725378927BEBA0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 85.210.183.132 by BAY120-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 02 Jan 2007 01:10:13 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [85.210.183.132]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "atom-syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl> <4599A089.5020209@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:12:14 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2007 01:10:15.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2E6BA40:01C72E0A]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3


James M Snell wrote:
> -1. If there's anything we can learn from the mess that is RSS, at a
> certain point feed consumers should be allowed to say simply that a
> buggy feed is a buggy feed and that it falls on the responsibility of
> the feed publisher to get things right.

Well that's not really what I've learnt. I've learnt that there are a lot of 
broken feeds out there (Atom as well as RSS) and that users are less than 
impressed when you tell them it's not your fault and they should complain to 
someone else.

In the words of Mihai Parparita (Google Reader): "as anyone who has 
attempted to implement a feed parser knows, there are many subtle deviations 
from the spec that you have to handle if you want to have any hope of 
satisfying the needs of your users".  [1]

I'm not saying that aggregators MUST support this particular buggy feed. I 
just got the impression that Geoffrey WANTED to support it. I think that's 
his choice to make.

Regards
James

[1] http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2005/12/xml-errors-in-feeds.html




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 05:30:18 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1guQ-00071C-AK
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:30:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1guO-0000Ke-Tm
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:30:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02A7IlY041621
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:07:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02A7Ihs041620;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:07:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from sam.opera.com (sam.opera.com [193.69.113.81])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02A7FnB041611
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:07:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from annevk@opera.com)
Received: from id-c0020 (c529db1cc.cable.wanadoo.nl [82.157.177.204])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by sam.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l02A76V0015788
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:07:07 GMT
To: "Henri Sivonen" <hsivonen@iki.fi>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
From: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
Organization: Opera Software
Cc: "Geoffrey Sneddon" <foolistbar@googlemail.com>, "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>,
        atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020> <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:07:06 +0100
Message-ID: <op.tliud4an64w2qv@id-c0020>
In-Reply-To: <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 01:21:09 +0100, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> wrote:
>> I suppose you could raise this on the WHATWG list. Asking what happens  
>> if you set innerHTML of a <div> where the setted value has both a  
>> <base> and an <a> for instance.
>
> Interesting. I hadn't thought that Atom was supposed to use innerHTML  
> parsing. I'd have said that you prepend "<!DOCTYPE html><title></ 
> title><div>" to what travels in the feed and append "</div>" to it,  
> parse the resulting string and grab the first div in the document order.

That could work as well. In that case <base> would most certainly apply.  
But nothing like that is defined...


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>
<http://www.opera.com/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 06:01:01 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hO9-0006ah-M4
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:01:01 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hO6-0007vA-9B
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:01:01 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02AeubN044858
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:40:56 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02Aeu80044857;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:40:56 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l02AesPA044849
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:40:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Jan 2007 10:40:54 -0000
Received: from xdsl-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 02 Jan 2007 11:40:54 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:40:53 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Message-ID: <20070102104053.GD31181@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020> <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
Organization: haphazard
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c


* Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> [2007-01-02 01:35]:
> I hadn't thought that Atom was supposed to use innerHTML
> parsing. I'd have said that you prepend
> "<!DOCTYPE html><title></title><div>" to what travels in the
> feed and append "</div>" to it,  parse the resulting string and
> grab the first div in the document order.

That will lead to silent data loss if the content is malformed
such that it contains an extraneous `</div>`.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 06:26:06 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hmQ-0003Zf-DU
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:26:06 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hmO-0005sL-0G
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:26:06 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02BBftU047469
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:11:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02BBfwX047468;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:11:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from sam.opera.com (sam.opera.com [193.69.113.81])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02BBc8J047461
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:11:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from annevk@opera.com)
Received: from id-c0020 (c529db1cc.cable.wanadoo.nl [82.157.177.204])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by sam.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l02BBaQi017194
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:11:37 GMT
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:11:36 +0100
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
From: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
Organization: Opera Software
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl> <4599A089.5020209@gmail.com> <BAY120-DAV170F19112F1A3725378927BEBA0@phx.gbl>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <op.tlixdmob64w2qv@id-c0020>
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-DAV170F19112F1A3725378927BEBA0@phx.gbl>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126


On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:12:14 +0100, James Holderness  
<j4_james@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well that's not really what I've learnt. I've learnt that there are a  
> lot of broken feeds out there (Atom as well as RSS) and that users are  
> less than impressed when you tell them it's not your fault and they  
> should complain to someone else.

So if a feed is non-well-formed you should just parse it as well using  
some tag soup parser for XML? I don't necessarily disagree with that, but  
I'd like error handling to be defined in great detail. Everyone just doing  
what is best for their users will lead you to where HTML is now (at best).


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>
<http://www.opera.com/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 06:27:04 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hnM-0004Ey-7Q
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:27:04 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1hnK-000677-5H
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:27:04 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02B87ZE047070
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:08:08 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02B87jY047069;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:08:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from sam.opera.com (sam.opera.com [193.69.113.81])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02B83qV047059
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:08:06 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from annevk@opera.com)
Received: from id-c0020 (c529db1cc.cable.wanadoo.nl [82.157.177.204])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by sam.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l02B7w19017106
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:08:00 GMT
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:07:58 +0100
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
From: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>
Organization: Opera Software
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020> <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi> <20070102104053.GD31181@klangraum>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <op.tliw7kru64w2qv@id-c0020>
In-Reply-To: <20070102104053.GD31181@klangraum>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:40:53 +0100, A. Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote:
> * Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> [2007-01-02 01:35]:
>> I hadn't thought that Atom was supposed to use innerHTML
>> parsing. I'd have said that you prepend
>> "<!DOCTYPE html><title></title><div>" to what travels in the
>> feed and append "</div>" to it,  parse the resulting string and
>> grab the first div in the document order.
>
> That will lead to silent data loss if the content is malformed
> such that it contains an extraneous `</div>`.

Yeah, it's probably better to take the first and only <body> element.


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
<http://annevankesteren.nl/>
<http://www.opera.com/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 07:31:32 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1ink-0008UE-5a
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:31:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1ini-0005XD-PT
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:31:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CEEe5051973
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:14:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02CEE3p051972;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:14:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fimug.fi (mail.fimug.fi [212.149.83.83])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CECBf051963
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:14:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from hsivonen@iki.fi)
Received: from [84.239.175.104] (a175-104.24online.fi [84.239.175.104])
	by posti.fidisk.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E7312B1C02;
	Tue,  2 Jan 2007 14:14:09 +0200 (EET)
In-Reply-To: <20070102104053.GD31181@klangraum>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <op.tlhtcgbp64w2qv@id-c0020> <D0F9A2F0-03CF-4FD9-91BC-5A80D14C9C08@iki.fi> <20070102104053.GD31181@klangraum>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <FDD7DF0C-5345-4EE9-B200-272545AA8E9C@iki.fi>
Cc: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:14:02 +0200
To: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007


On Jan 2, 2007, at 12:40, A. Pagaltzis wrote:

> * Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> [2007-01-02 01:35]:
>> I hadn't thought that Atom was supposed to use innerHTML
>> parsing. I'd have said that you prepend
>> "<!DOCTYPE html><title></title><div>" to what travels in the
>> feed and append "</div>" to it,  parse the resulting string and
>> grab the first div in the document order.
>
> That will lead to silent data loss if the content is malformed
> such that it contains an extraneous `</div>`.

Good point.

Prepending <!DOCTYPE html><title></title> and grabbing the contents  
of body would work better.

-- 
Henri Sivonen
hsivonen@iki.fi
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 07:46:38 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1j2M-00084j-Fm
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:46:38 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1j2I-0008OX-Vw
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:46:38 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CVH1X053049
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:31:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02CVHdw053048;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:31:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.88])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02CVGfB053042
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:31:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.139]) by bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
	 Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:31:16 -0800
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 2 Jan 2007 04:31:15 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY120-DAV1F1F337B63B753B8047A6BEBA0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 85.210.183.132 by BAY120-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:31:15 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [85.210.183.132]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <EFBE8222-BCA1-4A53-80D7-A9AFAC0D885E@googlemail.com> <op.tlhitbur16f2qb@quark> <9D656A79-EFF3-46F5-A1F3-0DD3589E1E7B@googlemail.com> <45be5cd40701011122u2ac1bd06q81c6e5fd95dafdde@mail.gmail.com> <D422DB6A-03BC-47E9-999D-0E0F36F4BA51@googlemail.com> <BAY120-DAV105879281780817E79F2C1BEBB0@phx.gbl> <4599A089.5020209@gmail.com> <BAY120-DAV170F19112F1A3725378927BEBA0@phx.gbl> <op.tlixdmob64w2qv@id-c0020>
Subject: Re: <base> within HTML content
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:33:16 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="utf-8";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2007 12:31:15.0940 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5745A40:01C72E69]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> So if a feed is non-well-formed you should just parse it as well using 
> some tag soup parser for XML?

Well that's what I do. The Google Reader blog post I quoted estimated that 
about seven percent of feeds contained XML errors of some kind. That's a lot 
of feeds for me to ignore. I'm sure other aggregator authors will choose 
otherwise. It just depends on their needs and the needs of their users.

> I'd like error handling to be defined in great detail. Everyone just doing 
> what is best for their users will lead you to where HTML is now (at best).

To be honest, I don't care. I'm not trying to make policy here. I was just 
offering my advice to one particular person in response to one particular 
query.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 16:06:22 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1qpy-0001Ey-0h
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:06:22 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1qpw-0006ox-JJ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:06:22 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko4JB026030
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l02Ko4me026029;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l02Ko2mt026012
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:50:03 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from ietf@ietf.org)
Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10])
	by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBEF32936;
	Tue,  2 Jan 2007 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1qaA-0002nD-8k; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt 
Message-Id: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:50:02 -0500
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745


--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: The application/atom+xml Type Parameter
	Author(s)	: J. Snell
	Filename	: draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
	Pages		: 6
	Date		: 2007-1-2
	

   The Atom Syndication Format (RFC 4287) defines the 'application/
   atom+xml' media type to identify both Atom Feed and Atom Entry
   Documents.  This document defines an optional 'type' parameter used
   to differentiate the two types of Atom documents.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of 
the message. 
You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the 
username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After 
logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then 
"get draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<2007-1-2130231.I-D@ietf.org>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<2007-1-2130231.I-D@ietf.org>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 02 20:23:26 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1uqk-0001sI-Sf
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:23:26 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H1uqj-0005rM-GP
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:23:26 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03185Wh049265
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:08:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l03185hK049264;
	Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:08:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.231])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l03184L9049258
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:08:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so5642656wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:08:03 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=eoaCDl+ygwTsKrQXJMw+XkO0cjqQMrgZ1S3kdCv0E/XQLXPr43b2BD9RNNVthQSdTdPMzJsuX5mKRVo/aI23WATyC/KJmcQCEFev9VhRsJwpaN0CVi/4flv4eb70HXOtQQ6ZAJNcT+0DvKqJZK00ZPlAHM+AmQCFbF2vfE3n+Vs=
Received: by 10.90.56.14 with SMTP id e14mr14675186aga.1167786483714;
        Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.18 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701021708h56d91a6fs5cfa704c44d7dec5@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:08:03 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
In-Reply-To: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 645724731ff0c0d9
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab


This document looks good on an initial quick read -- with one possible
exception. It says:

> Atom processors that do recognize the parameter SHOULD
> detect and report inconsistencies between the parameter's
> value and the actual type of the document's root element.

This would seem to be creating a directive concerning behavior which
is not directly related to interoperation between systems. (I'm
assuming that the destination of the "reports" is the user of the
application, a log file, or something like that.) Thus, it seems to me
that it might be inappropriate to use the SHOULD word since IETF apps
are supposed to be focused on interoperation and are supposed to avoid
constraining application behavior unnecessarily. May I suggest that
you rewrite this sentence in a manner similar to that below:

"It is strongly recommended that Atom processors that do recognize the
parameter detect and report ...."

bob wyman




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 11:19:11 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2VJ9-0002FD-Am
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:19:11 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2VJ4-00013a-Ro
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:19:11 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04G0Vrq006530
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:00:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04G0VqT006528;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:00:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.47])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04G0UjM006517
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:00:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com)
Received: from mac.com (webmail031-S [10.13.128.31])
	by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout09/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l04G0Ujh012992
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:00:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from webmail031 (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mac.com (8.13.8/webmail031/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l04G0Tj9019727
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:00:29 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:00:29 -0800
From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
To: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-ID: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
Subject: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Originating-IP: 193.7.250.35
Received: from [193.7.250.35] from webmail.mac.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:00:29 -0800
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==
X-Brightmail-scanned: yes
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d


Hi,

on the NewsML list, an issue came up that due to they lack of a MIME type for NewsML using NewsML as Atom content is somewhat problematic[1]; I think this is the case with most of the more interesting XML applications out there.

Is there any chance to extend/revise Atom to allow an attribute on the content element that allows to specify the namespace of XML content given the MIME type is declared as application/xml or text/xml?

Actually, there is no posibility to do this as an Atom extension, is there?

What is the opinion of the compund document formats experts on this?

Note:

I recall Mark Baker using something similar in his former RDF Forms draft:

<rf:Container xmlns:rf="http://www.markbaker.ca/2003/rdfforms/"
              xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
              rdf:about="http://shoes.example.com/order-processor/">
  <rf:acceptedMediaType>application/xml</rf:acceptedMediaType>
  <rf:acceptedNamespace rdf:resource="http://shoe-standards.example.org/orders/shoes/"/>  <<============
  <rf:intent rdf:resource="http://shoe-standards.example.org/order-shoes/"/>
</rf:Container>

Jan


[1] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newsml/message/2424
[2] http://www.markbaker.ca/2003/05/RDF-Forms/rdf-forms-old1.html




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 12:25:44 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2WLW-0000eR-Tf
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:25:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2WLT-0005OD-8g
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:25:42 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04H94qA011505
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:09:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04H94El011504;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:09:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.239])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04H93BS011498
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:09:03 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so6145052wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:09:02 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=TBI4Ospm6heBuCAAO4S0W2a6Onl2HJS58p5tJYkGYLe6zolYBAT+rvMuQ5Gqpo2nC6HNMdOd+diknnMSUFtTBWEMHjSF5WajNlbhbZoGJVkTCpV7lEY0vbvTKjM0aX5biES3mwV3V5E3b1uLXflij3w/zSKjpYPN8xvANfg1nIg=
Received: by 10.90.51.17 with SMTP id y17mr384926agy.1167930542824;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:09:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 35sm40926351wra.2007.01.04.09.09.00;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:09:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <459D34A5.4070502@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:08:53 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061115)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
CC: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
In-Reply-To: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906




Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> on the NewsML list, an issue came up that due to they lack of a MIME type 
> for NewsML using NewsML as Atom content is somewhat problematic[1]; I think 
> this is the case with most of the more interesting XML applications out there.
> 
> Is there any chance to extend/revise Atom to allow an attribute on the content 
> element that allows to specify the namespace of XML content given the MIME type 
> is declared as application/xml or text/xml?
> 
> Actually, there is no posibility to do this as an Atom extension, is there?
> 

Of course this can be done as an extension. The bigger problem is that
NewsML doesn't have an XML Namespace to declare.  At least, I don't see
one in version 1.2

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 12:34:25 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2WTx-00085m-Sv
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:34:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2WTv-0007Yw-Ce
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:34:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04HJJQH012031
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:19 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04HJJEw012030;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:19 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bay0-omc3-s30.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s30.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.230])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04HJI5Z012024
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.149]) by bay0-omc3-s30.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
	 Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:19:18 -0800
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:19:17 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY120-DAV119368C131396DE011C789BEB80@phx.gbl>
Received: from 85.210.183.132 by BAY120-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:19:12 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [85.210.183.132]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:21:13 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2007 17:19:17.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[770F5D40:01C73024]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126


Jan Algermissen wrote:
> on the NewsML list, an issue came up that due to they lack of a
> MIME type for NewsML using NewsML as Atom content is somewhat
> problematic[1];

From my brief reading of the thread, I got the impression that NewsML did 
have a media type (text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML) - it just isn't recognised as an 
XML media type. If that's correct, then surely you can just escape the 
content as you would with "html" or any other "text/" media type. Obviously 
it's not ideal, but it is workable.

If you think it's vitally important that the content be embedded as 
unescaped XML, then I would think a more practical solution would be to get 
a "+xml" media type rather than trying to extend Atom.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 12:58:14 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2Wr0-0006xx-N8
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:58:14 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2Wqz-0003UC-Aq
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:58:14 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04HUQUj012595
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:30:26 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04HUQtL012594;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:30:26 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from ixion.tartarus.org (ixion.tartarus.org [82.211.108.121])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04HUP8p012586
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:30:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from james@ixion.tartarus.org)
Received: from james by ixion.tartarus.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
	for atom-syntax@imc.org
	id 1H2WQ0-0001mf-00; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:30:20 +0000
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:30:20 +0000
From: James Aylett <james@tartarus.org>
To: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Message-ID: <20070104173020.GG25998@tartarus.org>
Mail-Followup-To: James Aylett <james@tartarus.org>,
	Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2


On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:00:29AM -0800, Jan Algermissen wrote:

> Is there any chance to extend/revise Atom to allow an attribute on
> the content element that allows to specify the namespace of XML
> content given the MIME type is declared as application/xml or
> text/xml?
> 
> What is the opinion of the compund document formats experts on this?

I wouldn't class myself as an expert, but why do we need an attribute?
How about something like (please not text/xml, by the way :-):

----------------------------------------------------------------------
<atom:content type="application/xml">
  <newsml:whatever xmlns:newsml="<newsml namespace URI>">
    ...
  </newsml:whatever>
</atom:content>
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't see a big difference between
dispatch-on-namespace-of-child-of-content (which is, I believe, legal
in Atom 1.0) and dispatch-on-namespace-attribute-on-content (which is
what I think you're proposing).

James

-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  James Aylett                                                  xapian.org
  james@tartarus.org                               uncertaintydivision.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 16:48:57 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2aSH-0000Ul-Bx
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:48:57 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2aSC-00046V-SB
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:48:57 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04LTtNd028580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:29:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04LTt93028579;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:29:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.230])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04LTrl9028573
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:29:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 57so2549595wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:29:53 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=W3F4ZXFnQjsWw5Fiwc7+d4UnXPvHjjqGAUdttgs22KHiU/so8LTKaF92gO7zr8OoXggRj/KsRFZuWsheh5h03Gm7TMOAVfvfVrIXKpUdGzzkE7J5MCZ3EdHGDpjELJ0pnmckLvOHZlRyinosmOv96NnBVUwszMH8GBxt9mlpUIM=
Received: by 10.90.120.6 with SMTP id s6mr565944agc.1167946193619;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:29:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.104.5 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50701041329l196a1f9fl8dfed05cb383c52f@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:29:52 -0800
From: "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Please add draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam to the charter [eom] -- Rob Sayre
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89


-- 

cheers,

Robert Sayre

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
http://franklinmint.fm/
http://feedautodiscovery.org/




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 17:29:24 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2b5Q-00015t-PT
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:29:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2b5P-0002hi-BI
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:29:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04MCRhp031079
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:12:27 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l04MCREq031078;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:12:27 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.226])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l04MCQIS031072
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:12:27 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so6205782wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:12:26 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=mtIZVXzSxcmbZE2z+o+Yxobi50kOotlEzame+pLieDzVN8xzzyWm9QVVdkDU9KK1uumkjCTgR6e1u1szqrhJH2QJMRcCu9j5GVtyTmHolytga6up/JgH+5K9K2YUVef9zjeRk5Cj6R0dJmKMRAdOIDObJrCN09ANcPVLMbKd3js=
Received: by 10.70.116.1 with SMTP id o1mr41709277wxc.1167948745907;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:12:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 12sm60414603wrl.2007.01.04.14.12.24;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:12:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <459D7BBF.6000502@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:12:15 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061115)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <45be5cd40701021708h56d91a6fs5cfa704c44d7dec5@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40701021708h56d91a6fs5cfa704c44d7dec5@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2


Hey Bob,

I have no problem with the rewording. Just waiting to see what others
may have to say about it.

- James

Bob Wyman wrote:
> 
> This document looks good on an initial quick read -- with one possible
> exception. It says:
> 
>> Atom processors that do recognize the parameter SHOULD
>> detect and report inconsistencies between the parameter's
>> value and the actual type of the document's root element.
> 
> This would seem to be creating a directive concerning behavior which
> is not directly related to interoperation between systems. (I'm
> assuming that the destination of the "reports" is the user of the
> application, a log file, or something like that.) Thus, it seems to me
> that it might be inappropriate to use the SHOULD word since IETF apps
> are supposed to be focused on interoperation and are supposed to avoid
> constraining application behavior unnecessarily. May I suggest that
> you rewrite this sentence in a manner similar to that below:
> 
> "It is strongly recommended that Atom processors that do recognize the
> parameter detect and report ...."
> 
> bob wyman
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 04 23:40:07 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2gsB-0002pR-3C
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:40:07 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2gs5-00088R-Io
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:40:07 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l054M5CL054713
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:22:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l054M5BL054712;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:22:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l054M30T054705
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:22:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
Received: from fe-amer-04.sun.com ([192.18.108.178])
	by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l054M3dD003920
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:22:03 -0700 (MST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr  3 2006))
 id <0JBD00D01NRRO100@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Bray@Sun.COM)
 for atom-syntax@imc.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:22:03 -0700 (MST)
Received: from [10.10.10.52] (dsl-58-6-71-240.vic.westnet.com.au [58.6.71.240])
 by mail-amer.sun.com
 (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr  3 2006))
 with ESMTPSA id <0JBD0073BO4G7410@mail-amer.sun.com> for atom-syntax@imc.org;
 Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:22:03 -0700 (MST)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:22:30 -0800
From: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-id: <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906


Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
> Date: January 4, 2007 8:08:06 AM PST (CA)
> To: Tim.Bray@Sun.COM
> Subject: Atom format interpretation question
>
> Am I right in thinking that content which is in fact in XML but
> is labeled with a media type that is neither generic XML nor
> ends in "+xml" cannot be included inline in an Atom entry?
> The NewsML community (which uses the registered media-type
> text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML) is concerned about this.
>
> --  
> John Cowan  cowan@ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
> Any sufficiently-complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc,
> informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of  
> Common Lisp.
>         --Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming (rules 1-9 are  
> unknown)





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 00:12:25 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2hNR-0005ZH-Nc
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:12:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2hNQ-0004nf-8e
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:12:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l054uYT3056606
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:56:34 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l054uY9l056605;
	Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:56:34 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.239])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l054uXro056599
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:56:33 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so6285212wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:56:33 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=Y5ZUMK1Bkzt/Vh3Ze2rjihT/PrA6hyeIlFKx3FImUH1GIPKAXRRRzOHcORLuSEu6BwfOymAYd2FvyjLzv70w0Tj0pSire8YRmV7CzNbOGXbLXyn+FNMrPttpRQYKYIWqLQOcERnNyUZl3xaqdKrxpQ/7T+oAJbdGm8kTwqvRy44=
Received: by 10.70.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr42457325wxu.1167972992941;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:56:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24sm3395838wrl.2007.01.04.20.56.31;
        Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:56:32 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:56:29 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
In-Reply-To: <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f


If it's well-formed XML then I'd think dropping it into atom:content
using type="application/xml" would be acceptable.  You'd just end up
losing that bit of semantic metadata that tells you exactly what kind of
XML it is.  If you want to use the text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML media type to
identify the type of XML, then you'd have to escape the markup and treat
it like text.  If the NewsML folks want to be able to use a proper media
type to identify their stuff AND treat it as XML, they should come up
with an appropriate media type registration (e.g.
application/newsml+xml, etc).

- James

Tim Bray wrote:
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
>> Date: January 4, 2007 8:08:06 AM PST (CA)
>> To: Tim.Bray@Sun.COM
>> Subject: Atom format interpretation question
>>
>> Am I right in thinking that content which is in fact in XML but
>> is labeled with a media type that is neither generic XML nor
>> ends in "+xml" cannot be included inline in an Atom entry?
>> The NewsML community (which uses the registered media-type
>> text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML) is concerned about this.
>>
>> -- John Cowan  cowan@ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
>> Any sufficiently-complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc,
>> informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common
>> Lisp.
>>         --Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming (rules 1-9 are unknown)
> 
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 02:27:37 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2jUH-0005Ep-0m
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:27:37 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2jUC-0000AN-I2
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:27:36 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l057BMG5062681
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:11:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l057BLBU062680;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:11:21 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l057BKUb062673
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:11:20 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14901911EDD1;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 08:11:18 +0100 (CET)
To: "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>, Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:13:04 +0100
Message-ID: <op.tln6b2je16f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0701-0, 03.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l057BMG5062681
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:00:29 +0100, Jan Algermissen =20
<algermissen1971@mac.com> wrote:

> on the NewsML list, an issue came up that due to they lack of a MIME =20
> type for NewsML using NewsML as Atom content is somewhat problematic[1]=
; =20
> I think this is the case with most of the more interesting XML =20
> applications out there.

The more interesting XML applications out there should get a proper MIME =
=20
type, that's all. Nothing wrong with Atom in this case, imo.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 03:43:06 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2kfK-0008Cd-MQ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:43:06 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2kfI-0004bo-7S
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:43:06 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l058RE1J066757
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:27:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l058REvG066756;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:27:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.224])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l058REKw066750
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:27:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so6328069wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:27:13 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=VQ3I6zxAm/lEk0cjzf4P/WAWF5Mdv1SAPkS2vi9tHIwhJaeqQRslxeSA5pQcRFDQhcndRsLa9k/I7gmstlG96uCaSRorSRDTzEOlvNO97gtgAx34GGe+MIDoxNSnUxd44ID96hdQ5G126/SmukTcy/HFBIgF4ILotxNoR3jWIig=
Received: by 10.90.84.17 with SMTP id h17mr765696agb.1167985633792;
        Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:27:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.16 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:27:13 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701050027y7b870229i84ff3de7edf23553@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:27:13 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
Cc: "Tim Bray" <Tim.Bray@sun.com>, "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_14076_17034170.1167985633766"
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org>
	 <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
	 <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: d34749973375ce5e
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464


------=_Part_14076_17034170.1167985633766
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/4/07, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:> If the NewsML folks
want to be able to use a proper
> mediatype to identify their stuff AND treat it as XML,
> they should come upwith an appropriate media type
> registration (e.g.application/newsml+xml, etc).

Did the "+xml" convention ever get formalized in some RFC? I know we all
*think* that tacking "+xml" onto the end of something means that it is some
use of XML, however, if I remember correctly, this little bit of syntax has
never actually been formalized... Or have I missed something? Is there an
RFC that defines what "+xml" means?

bob wyman

------=_Part_14076_17034170.1167985633766
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/4/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">James M Snell</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:jasnell@gmail.com">jasnell@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span>&gt; If the NewsML folks want to be able to use a proper
<br>&gt; mediatype to identify their stuff AND treat it as XML,<br>&gt; they should come upwith an appropriate media type<br>&gt; registration (e.g.application/newsml<span style="font-weight: bold;">+xml,</span> etc).<br>
<br>Did the &quot;+xml&quot; convention ever get formalized in some RFC? I know we all *think* that tacking &quot;+xml&quot; onto the end of something means that it is some use of XML, however, if I remember correctly, this little bit of syntax has never actually been formalized... Or have I missed something? Is there an RFC that defines what &quot;+xml&quot; means? 
<br><br>bob wyman<br></div><br>

------=_Part_14076_17034170.1167985633766--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 03:59:05 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2kun-0003Xj-Bb
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:59:05 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2kuh-0007Jc-Pr
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:59:05 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l058h4xK067843
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:43:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l058h4W5067842;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:43:04 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l058h24U067836
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:43:03 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from derhoermi@gmx.net)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Jan 2007 08:43:01 -0000
Received: from dslb-084-056-226-174.pools.arcor-ip.net (EHLO hive) [84.56.226.174]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp036) with SMTP; 05 Jan 2007 09:43:01 +0100
X-Authenticated: #723575
From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
To: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
Cc: <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:43:03 +0100
Message-ID: <dr3sp25a8q2cdq1ncff23188mfa1dbjf94@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de>
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com> <45be5cd40701050027y7b870229i84ff3de7edf23553@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40701050027y7b870229i84ff3de7edf23553@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l058h4xK067843
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


* Bob Wyman wrote:
>Did the "+xml" convention ever get formalized in some RFC? I know we all
>*think* that tacking "+xml" onto the end of something means that it is s=
ome
>use of XML, however, if I remember correctly, this little bit of syntax =
has
>never actually been formalized... Or have I missed something? Is there a=
n
>RFC that defines what "+xml" means?

RFC 3023 and RFC 4288.
--=20
Bj=F6rn H=F6hrmann =B7 mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de =B7 http://bjoern.hoehr=
mann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 =B7 Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 =B7 http://www.bjoernsworld=
.de
68309 Mannheim =B7 PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 =B7 http://www.websitedev.d=
e/=20




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 05:55:23 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2mjL-0006L9-6e
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:55:23 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2mjH-0006x7-H0
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:55:23 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05AXoQg075432
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:33:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05AXoBg075431;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:33:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.195])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05AXkPA075424
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:33:47 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp)
Received: from scmse1.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse1 [133.2.253.16])
	by scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id l05AXiPI025111
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:33:45 +0900 (JST)
Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse1.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp
	 id 0cbb_382a6b42_9ca8_11db_8207_0014221fa3c9;
	Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:33:44 +0900
Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:49968)
	by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server]
	id <S69447> for <atom-syntax@imc.org> from <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:32:59 +0900
Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20070105164426.02478b80@localhost>
X-Sender: duerst@localhost
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:47:08 +0900
To: Asbj=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCj1MbKEI=?=n Ulsberg <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>,
        "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>,
        Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
From: Martin Duerst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
In-Reply-To: <op.tln6b2je16f2qb@quark>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
 <op.tln6b2je16f2qb@quark>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l05AXoQg075432
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17


At 16:13 07/01/05, Asbj=1B$B=8FS=1B(Bn Ulsberg wrote:
>
>On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:00:29 +0100, Jan Algermissen =20
><algermissen1971@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> on the NewsML list, an issue came up that due to they lack of a MIME =20
>> type for NewsML using NewsML as Atom content is somewhat problematic[1=
]; =20
>> I think this is the case with most of the more interesting XML =20
>> applications out there.
>
>The more interesting XML applications out there should get a proper MIME=
 =20
>type, that's all. Nothing wrong with Atom in this case, imo.

Sorry, wrong.

Using +xml at the end of a Mime Type is a good convention, but it
is only a convention. There is no requirement for a Mime Type that
uses XML to end in +xml. Also, the +xml convention was established
several years later than XML itself.

So I think that Atom is a bit out on it's egde if it says
'if you don't have a +xml Mime Type, you're not XML'.

Regards,    Martin.




#-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp =
   =20




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 07:24:59 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2o83-0008Cc-23
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:24:59 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2o7y-0007Ar-HN
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:24:59 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05C4jbH081514
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:04:45 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05C4jLk081513;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:04:45 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.169])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05C4g4H081504
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:04:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from joe.gregorio@gmail.com)
Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j3so6361747ugf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:04:42 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=XCsaN/YdslBxj1EtuRC1ldE5iIZIw/Hao9G7oiW3GVphDkIecDMlyaOs2hfyTyv/CQENrjMouUFURnJvcKZkICZX+u+7MpBFE1dkW7GxkXEkNsD0zN1QZy1jW+a8c6MaAShjd9TdY/a8ecxlgAWsa6f5RW1HLnD8eWez3qtY93A=
Received: by 10.78.181.13 with SMTP id d13mr5609549huf.1167998682041;
        Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:04:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.78.191.4 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 04:04:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3f1451f50701050404x3dc82303l9908aff25a93a75b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 07:04:41 -0500
From: "Joe Gregorio" <joe@bitworking.org>
To: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
Cc: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>, "Tim Bray" <Tim.Bray@sun.com>,
        "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40701050027y7b870229i84ff3de7edf23553@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org>
	 <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
	 <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
	 <45be5cd40701050027y7b870229i84ff3de7edf23553@mail.gmail.com>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5698506766b1085e
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3


On 1/5/07, Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us> wrote:
> On 1/4/07, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If the NewsML folks want to be able to use a proper
> > mediatype to identify their stuff AND treat it as XML,
> > they should come upwith an appropriate media type
> > registration (e.g.application/newsml+xml, etc).
>
> Did the "+xml" convention ever get formalized in some RFC? I know we all
> *think* that tacking "+xml" onto the end of something means that it is some
> use of XML, however, if I remember correctly, this little bit of syntax has
> never actually been formalized... Or have I missed something? Is there an
> RFC that defines what "+xml" means?

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3023.txt

""This document also standardizes a convention (using
   the suffix '+xml') for naming media types outside of these five types
   when those media types represent XML MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
   Extensions) entities.""

   -joe

-- 
Joe Gregorio        http://bitworking.org




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 07:53:25 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2oZZ-0003J4-6r
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:53:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2oZX-0006rL-NJ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:53:25 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05CQhHM083495
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:26:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05CQhJq083494;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:26:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.fimug.fi (mail.fimug.fi [212.149.83.83])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05CQgIr083486
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:26:42 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from hsivonen@iki.fi)
Received: from [84.239.175.104] (a175-104.24online.fi [84.239.175.104])
	by posti.fidisk.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0457E1308F15;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 14:26:39 +0200 (EET)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20070105164426.02478b80@localhost>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com> <op.tln6b2je16f2qb@quark> <6.0.0.20.2.20070105164426.02478b80@localhost>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <4193ADE9-A7A8-4734-9350-B5B6D1A25428@iki.fi>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Asbj=EF=BF=BDn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>,
        "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>,
        Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:26:46 +0200
To: Martin Duerst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


On Jan 5, 2007, at 09:47, Martin Duerst wrote:

> So I think that Atom is a bit out on it's egde if it says
> 'if you don't have a +xml Mime Type, you're not XML'.

No, Atom says that if you don't use application/xml or an +xml type,  
you don't get to use an embedded subtree and your format gets the  
kind of treatment that non-XML formats get.

Atom is quite reasonable here. An XML vocabulary that doesn't have a  
MIME type that follows the convention *and* doesn't have a namespace  
is itself a badly-behaved XML vocabulary.

-- 
Henri Sivonen
hsivonen@iki.fi
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 08:31:17 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2pAD-000424-Ua
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:31:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2pA9-0005nF-C4
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:31:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05D0tuI086058
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:00:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05D0tlw086057;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:00:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l05D0r2T086048
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:00:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Jan 2007 13:00:52 -0000
Received: from xdsl-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp049) with SMTP; 05 Jan 2007 14:00:52 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:00:51 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Message-ID: <20070105130051.GM31181@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com> <20070104173020.GG25998@tartarus.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20070104173020.GG25998@tartarus.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
Organization: haphazard
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2


* James Aylett <james@tartarus.org> [2007-01-04 18:55]:
> I don't see a big difference between dispatch on namespace of
> child of content (which is, I believe, legal in Atom 1.0) and
> dispatch on namespace attribute on content (which is what I
> think you're proposing).

Except when there is nothing you can dispatch on because the
vocabulary in question is not in a namespace.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 12:54:36 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tH2-0006U6-Nq
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:54:36 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tGz-00035D-7x
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:54:36 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05HLV7V007757
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:21:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05HLVrJ007756;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:21:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.230])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05HLUcn007749
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:21:31 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from mbaker@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 57so2683879wri
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:21:30 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=opqC6bpB+eMpwgvoQis5IN8HecxrWenOnoq+9cnP8+/J91ciB/CClx7oSTNsHLVVyDaQVRAS0Rfk1qXvRdH9thcZJN7RUVLtmz4IQbj86z+cll7MkGBsyXyUDwZtFkpjGuHAS47Ed25NOpaQOsVm65QyRALCjV/zelBHnHYB4Mw=
Received: by 10.78.142.14 with SMTP id p14mr3113570hud.1168017689842;
        Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:21:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.78.173.4 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:21:24 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <c70bc85d0701050921w4cafaed9v3568da731669dffd@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:21:24 -0500
From: "Mark Baker" <distobj@acm.org>
To: "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Cc: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: c20bafe3fcace92b
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


On 1/4/07, Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com> wrote:
> I recall Mark Baker using something similar in his former RDF Forms draft:
>
> <rf:Container xmlns:rf="http://www.markbaker.ca/2003/rdfforms/"
>               xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>               rdf:about="http://shoes.example.com/order-processor/">
>   <rf:acceptedMediaType>application/xml</rf:acceptedMediaType>
>   <rf:acceptedNamespace rdf:resource="http://shoe-standards.example.org/orders/shoes/"/>  <<============
>   <rf:intent rdf:resource="http://shoe-standards.example.org/order-shoes/"/>
> </rf:Container>

That just describes an expectation ala app:accept, rather than any
inline content ala the type attribute on atom:content.

Mark.
-- 
Mark Baker.  Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.         http://www.markbaker.ca
Coactus; Web-inspired integration strategies  http://www.coactus.com




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 13:14:02 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tZq-0004se-45
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:14:02 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tZo-0000Im-MB
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:14:02 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I0IrC010966
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:00:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05I0IZB010965;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:00:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I0HMC010957
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:00:18 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335C319120763;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 19:00:16 +0100 (CET)
To: "Henri Sivonen" <hsivonen@iki.fi>,
        "Martin Duerst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Cc: "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>, Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com> <op.tln6b2je16f2qb@quark> <6.0.0.20.2.20070105164426.02478b80@localhost> <4193ADE9-A7A8-4734-9350-B5B6D1A25428@iki.fi>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:01:58 +0100
Message-ID: <op.tlo0dks916f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <4193ADE9-A7A8-4734-9350-B5B6D1A25428@iki.fi>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0701-0, 03.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l05I0IrC010966
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c


On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:26:46 +0100, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> wrote=
:

> Atom is quite reasonable here. An XML vocabulary that doesn't have a =20
> MIME type that follows the convention *and* doesn't have a namespace is=
 =20
> itself a badly-behaved XML vocabulary.

My point exactly.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 13:18:17 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tdx-00077p-7K
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:18:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tdv-0001KS-OK
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:18:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I2hf7011118
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:02:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05I2hVe011117;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:02:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I2g5w011111
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:02:42 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F14A19115568;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 19:02:41 +0100 (CET)
To: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>, "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <45be5cd40701021708h56d91a6fs5cfa704c44d7dec5@mail.gmail.com> <459D7BBF.6000502@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:04:23 +0100
Message-ID: <op.tlo0hlyf16f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <459D7BBF.6000502@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0701-0, 03.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l05I2hf7011118
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:12:15 +0100, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> =20
wrote:

> Bob Wyman wrote:
>
>> "It is strongly recommended that Atom processors that do recognize the
>> parameter detect and report ...."
>
> I have no problem with the rewording. Just waiting to see what others
> may have to say about it.

I also like Bob's wording better.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 13:18:51 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2teV-0007YV-6w
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:18:51 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2teT-0001UW-5B
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:18:50 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I5Ebi011459
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:05:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05I5Eu9011458;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:05:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I5EDd011449
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:05:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5670119115568;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 19:05:13 +0100 (CET)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:06:55 +0100
To: "Tim Bray" <Tim.Bray@sun.com>, "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <op.tlo0ltmb16f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0701-0, 03.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l05I5Ebi011459
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a


On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:22:30 +0100, Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM> wrote:

>> John Cowan wrote:
>>
>> Am I right in thinking that content which is in fact in XML but
>> is labeled with a media type that is neither generic XML nor
>> ends in "+xml" cannot be included inline in an Atom entry?
>> The NewsML community (which uses the registered media-type
>> text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML) is concerned about this.

We've already discussed this in another thread, but since the question is=
 =20
asked in a different way here, I'd like to answer it again. John is partl=
y =20
right, but only because NewsML neither has a namespace nor an XML MIME =20
type. If it had either, embedding it as XML in Atom would be no problem a=
t =20
all.

Thus, my conclusion is that this is a problem with NewsML and not with =20
Atom.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 13:29:39 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tox-0002p6-Gu
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:29:39 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2tow-0004rw-1M
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:29:39 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I8PYe012307
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:08:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05I8PPV012306;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:08:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05I8Onj012299
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:08:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (242.84-48-117.nextgentel.com [84.48.117.242])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2DF1911EDDF;
	Fri,  5 Jan 2007 19:08:24 +0100 (CET)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:10:06 +0100
To: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>, "Tim Bray" <Tim.Bray@sun.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Cc: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tlo0q41n16f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0701-0, 03.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l05I8PYe012307
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:56:29 +0100, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> =20
wrote:

> If the NewsML folks want to be able to use a proper media type to =20
> identify
> their stuff AND treat it as XML, they should come up with an appropriat=
e
> media type registration (e.g. application/newsml+xml, etc).

- Or come up with an appropriate namespace URI. Both solutions work just =
=20
as well imo, but I'd prefer both together over just one or the other, =20
though. That is, both a new MIME type (that ends with '+xml') and a =20
namespace URI.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 16:13:13 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2wNF-000750-Kb
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:13:13 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2wNE-0005TX-5J
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:13:13 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05Kq2Gf026457
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:52:02 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05Kq26N026456;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:52:02 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.235])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05Kq1kf026449
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:52:02 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so6482428wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:52:00 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=RcwnLuilDuEJXeWmqoGSa1CSt0Dk5lH5JbjT1Qz9b3fRXS5enmOxJTbP8xsUk0zALd0z1QqwVUtknjiIvNhOBCMONWD6g90Ggjsq2hD+tSe948bU6G6I4zrOGzAgvKpZOi+r8cYu9o88jSZd+8oHNv8ARFEbFln3pEa9tis5r6s=
Received: by 10.70.27.18 with SMTP id a18mr43911417wxa.1168030320628;
        Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:52:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 14sm62690477wrl.2007.01.05.12.51.57;
        Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:51:58 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <459EBA68.5030403@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:51:52 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Atom Bidi Attribute - *Unofficial* Last Call
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8


The Atom Bidi Attribute specification [1] updates RFC 4287 by adding a
new 'dir' attribute to the set of atomCommonAttributes.  The purpose is
to provide a means of defining the base directionality of
direction-neutral characters in Language-Sensitive text.  The rationale
is that direction-guessing schemes based on language and character
properties, while definitely useful and correct a lot of the time, are
inherently limited and flawed.  We need a way of explicitly specifying
the directionality.

Prior to moving this forward with the IESG, however, I wanted to issue
an informal last call here on the list to solicit feedback.

Note: Apache Abdera currently implements support for this attribute in
an optional and experimental extension module.

- James

[1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-snell-atompub-bidi-02.txt




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 16:45:37 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2wsb-0004rK-Tu
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:45:37 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2wsY-0005S8-DB
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:45:37 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05LVBTt030380
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:31:11 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05LVBfE030379;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:31:11 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.173])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05LVAGf030373
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:31:10 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com)
Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153])
	by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout03/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l05LV9b3012572;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:31:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.0.1.2] (e176047235.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.176.47.235])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin08/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l05LV1l2005701;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:31:04 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <c70bc85d0701050921w4cafaed9v3568da731669dffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com> <c70bc85d0701050921w4cafaed9v3568da731669dffd@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <3A80CA75-B96D-48C4-8D90-5948FF40E0C5@mac.com>
Cc: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:59:57 +0100
To: Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3)
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==
X-Brightmail-scanned: yes
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f


Hi Mark,

On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Mark Baker wrote:

>
> On 1/4/07, Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com> wrote:
>> I recall Mark Baker using something similar in his former RDF  
>> Forms draft:
>>
>> <rf:Container xmlns:rf="http://www.markbaker.ca/2003/rdfforms/"
>>               xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>>               rdf:about="http://shoes.example.com/order-processor/">
>>   <rf:acceptedMediaType>application/xml</rf:acceptedMediaType>
>>   <rf:acceptedNamespace rdf:resource="http://shoe- 
>> standards.example.org/orders/shoes/"/>  <<============
>>   <rf:intent rdf:resource="http://shoe-standards.example.org/order- 
>> shoes/"/>
>> </rf:Container>
>
> That just describes an expectation ala app:accept, rather than any
> inline content ala the type attribute on atom:content.
>

Sure. Sorry if you feel misrepresented. I only meant to provide an  
example of how one addressed the lack of distinguished MIME types for  
some formats by using the formats namespace instead.

Jan


> Mark.
> -- 
> Mark Baker.  Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.         http://www.markbaker.ca
> Coactus; Web-inspired integration strategies  http://www.coactus.com
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 05 18:01:43 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2y4F-0003KH-E0
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:01:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H2y4D-0002Zn-WC
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:01:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05MlMXC035042
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:47:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05MlMQ0035041;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:47:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.185])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05MlLWS035034
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:47:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from algermissen1971@mac.com)
Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153])
	by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout15/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l05MlIOr006524;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:47:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.0.1.2] (e176047235.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.176.47.235])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin08/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l05MlBLZ004292;
	Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:47:13 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20070104173020.GG25998@tartarus.org>
References: <90E0C3ED-010F-1000-87C5-A724EA078EB2-Webmail-10017@mac.com> <20070104173020.GG25998@tartarus.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <70919896-9FB8-4FEF-8EC4-DB1071E281E2@mac.com>
Cc: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Additional 'namespace' attribute on content element?
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 23:47:38 +0100
To: James Aylett <james@tartarus.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3)
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==
X-Brightmail-scanned: yes
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d



On Jan 4, 2007, at 6:30 PM, James Aylett wrote:

>
>
> I don't see a big difference between
> dispatch-on-namespace-of-child-of-content (which is, I believe, legal
> in Atom 1.0) and dispatch-on-namespace-attribute-on-content (which is
> what I think you're proposing).

Ok, but I was thinking more about out of line content, where the type  
(or namespace) hint avoids the need to dereference the content URI to  
poke into the XML.

I agree that it would be better to fix the fact of the missing MIME  
type in the first place, but I guess most groups in charge of the  
more interesting XML formats have no clue about the MIME type issue  
and that they might miss the Atom bandwagon.

[Aside: can anyone explain how hard the process to get a registered  
MIME type is in practice and why?]

Jan



>
> James
>
> -- 
> /--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----\
>   James Aylett                                                   
> xapian.org
>   james@tartarus.org                                
> uncertaintydivision.org
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 07 08:19:32 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3Xvw-0002at-E7
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 08:19:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3Xmk-0004Ey-HI
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 08:10:03 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07CkYYU042209
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 05:46:34 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l07CkYdc042208;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 05:46:34 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from vanadium.sabren.com (vanadium.sabren.com [67.19.173.84])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07CkW3X042202
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 05:46:33 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from rubys@intertwingly.net)
Received: from [192.168.1.101] (cpe-066-057-027-065.nc.res.rr.com [66.57.27.65])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by vanadium.sabren.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l07CkTQq013330;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:46:29 -0500
Message-ID: <45A0EBA5.1090101@intertwingly.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 07:46:29 -0500
From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
CC: Tim Bray <Tim.Bray@Sun.COM>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89


James M Snell wrote:
> If you want to use the text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML media type to
> identify the type of XML, then you'd have to escape the markup and treat
> it like text.

s/escape/Base64/
s/like text/as binary/

- Sam Ruby




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 07 10:05:28 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3ZaS-0007S4-Ph
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:05:28 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3ZaQ-00058c-7G
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:05:28 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07EifmC048791
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:44:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l07Eif97048790;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:44:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from bay0-omc1-s34.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s34.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.106])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07EieeX048784
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 07:44:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com)
Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.151]) by bay0-omc1-s34.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668);
	 Sun, 7 Jan 2007 06:44:40 -0800
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Sun, 7 Jan 2007 06:44:37 -0800
Message-ID: <BAY120-DAV133326E8C75F24281BA797BEBD0@phx.gbl>
Received: from 85.210.183.132 by BAY120-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV;
	Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:44:36 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [85.210.183.132]
X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com
From: "James Holderness" <j4_james@hotmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com> <45A0EBA5.1090101@intertwingly.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:46:35 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2007 14:44:37.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AF0A130:01C7326A]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++)
X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906


Sam Ruby wrote:
> James M Snell wrote:
>> If you want to use the text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML media type to
>> identify the type of XML, then you'd have to escape the markup and treat
>> it like text.
>
> s/escape/Base64/
> s/like text/as binary/

Are you sure? From RFC 4287, section 4.1.3.3:

5.  If the value of "type" begins with "text/" (case insensitive), the 
content of atom:content MUST NOT contain child elements.
6.  For all other values of "type", the content of atom:content MUST be a 
valid Base64 encoding, as described in [RFC3548], section 3.

In this case the type begins with "text/" so surely rule 5 applies, not rule 
6.

Regards
James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 07 12:39:32 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3bzY-00031L-1v
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:39:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3bzT-0008Gs-JK
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:39:30 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07HCQYg058017
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:12:26 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l07HCQBr058016;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:12:26 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.238])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07HCPFv058010
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:12:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z3so3480848nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:12:24 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=OeNsL+0vz+d3/KVfELxqyPehPFgCmTkeIYRkbmc5mRabD/aUwe3J7BYfVc9BvkrFyHSIgDfDo1vBWNBQFJXk/H1x0vTDzCJxbTVQEAD1j8qXOPZDUY0gsEjPpg2Jk8jKx24BYDS/EkRY6Vk1ahU50/fQj9YfebM9U5U92EqYEUY=
Received: by 10.65.176.7 with SMTP id d7mr1136420qbp.1168189944276;
        Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:12:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id q15sm29854314qbq.2007.01.07.09.12.23;
        Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:12:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45A129F5.40302@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:12:21 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>
CC: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com> <45A0EBA5.1090101@intertwingly.net> <BAY120-DAV133326E8C75F24281BA797BEBD0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-DAV133326E8C75F24281BA797BEBD0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034


Ahhh... a slight ambiguity presents itself.  The treatment of text/
types in RFC 4287 is a bit underspecified.  I've always worked off the
assumption that text/* types do not require base64 encoding (that's what
Abdera expects).

- James

James Holderness wrote:
> 
> Sam Ruby wrote:
>> James M Snell wrote:
>>> If you want to use the text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML media type to
>>> identify the type of XML, then you'd have to escape the markup and treat
>>> it like text.
>>
>> s/escape/Base64/
>> s/like text/as binary/
> 
> Are you sure? From RFC 4287, section 4.1.3.3:
> 
> 5.  If the value of "type" begins with "text/" (case insensitive), the
> content of atom:content MUST NOT contain child elements.
> 6.  For all other values of "type", the content of atom:content MUST be
> a valid Base64 encoding, as described in [RFC3548], section 3.
> 
> In this case the type begins with "text/" so surely rule 5 applies, not
> rule 6.
> 
> Regards
> James
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 07 17:23:00 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3gPs-0005NL-Mz
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:23:00 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H3gPr-0001ea-8U
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:23:00 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07M60fr077853
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:06:01 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l07M607U077852;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:06:00 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from vanadium.sabren.com (vanadium.sabren.com [67.19.173.84])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l07M5xdu077842
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:06:00 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from rubys@intertwingly.net)
Received: from [192.168.1.101] (cpe-066-057-027-065.nc.res.rr.com [66.57.27.65])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by vanadium.sabren.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l07M5vVO029666;
	Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:05:57 -0500
Message-ID: <45A16EC4.8040806@intertwingly.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:05:56 -0500
From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
CC: James Holderness <j4_james@hotmail.com>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atom format interpretation question
References: <20070104160806.GP6453@ccil.org> <01C65E07-CC66-4394-8793-5BE3772B5A59@Sun.COM> <459DDA7D.6030500@gmail.com> <45A0EBA5.1090101@intertwingly.net> <BAY120-DAV133326E8C75F24281BA797BEBD0@phx.gbl> <45A129F5.40302@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45A129F5.40302@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f


James M Snell wrote:
> Ahhh... a slight ambiguity presents itself.  The treatment of text/
> types in RFC 4287 is a bit underspecified.  I've always worked off the
> assumption that text/* types do not require base64 encoding (that's what
> Abdera expects).

On second read, JamesH is right (as were you, originally); I was wrong.

I don't see the ambiguity.

> - James
> 
> James Holderness wrote:
>> Sam Ruby wrote:
>>> James M Snell wrote:
>>>> If you want to use the text/vnd.IPTC.NewsML media type to
>>>> identify the type of XML, then you'd have to escape the markup and treat
>>>> it like text.
>>> s/escape/Base64/
>>> s/like text/as binary/
>> Are you sure? From RFC 4287, section 4.1.3.3:
>>
>> 5.  If the value of "type" begins with "text/" (case insensitive), the
>> content of atom:content MUST NOT contain child elements.
>> 6.  For all other values of "type", the content of atom:content MUST be
>> a valid Base64 encoding, as described in [RFC3548], section 3.
>>
>> In this case the type begins with "text/" so surely rule 5 applies, not
>> rule 6.
>>
>> Regards
>> James
>>
>>
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 09 09:39:18 2007
Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4I8E-0005e4-Pb
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:39:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4I8C-0003g3-TK
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:39:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09E5fb4043792
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:05:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09E5fIt043790;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:05:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09E5bEL043771
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:05:40 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sh@defuze.org)
Received: from [192.168.136.88] ([194.221.10.88])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l09E5VvY005773;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:05:34 -0600
Message-ID: <45A3A122.5080700@defuze.org>
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:05:22 +0000
From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>, atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Type parameter implementation
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad


Hi folks,

Wth the first version of the type parameter draft [1] recently released
by James, I was wondering if implementors had started implementing it
either in their Atom consumer or APP server/client?

Or is it to be considered too soon?

- Sylvain

[1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 09 11:26:22 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4Jnq-0003aw-Uc
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:26:22 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4Jnp-0006cB-9j
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:26:22 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09FqMd5051403
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:52:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l09FqMiG051402;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:52:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l09FqLs8051395
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:52:21 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i31so2928621wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:52:20 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=r6ECkXWLMWYW5CO5gHHOhSORNDMZTBoWV8489VYWktCQwO4pdRuTzM3x9dL/Haj3Le4hfyWlVOPChfDyCOKN3DCpwK2mRjqpB4vbODHdHHp+A2P8DEUqdzS5Q12/EIsP1I1Pqhw2NvBTtbnMDyTcBXkapfCuqQ1VG2wQvAHl8fM=
Received: by 10.90.66.9 with SMTP id o9mr3189117aga.1168357940377;
        Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:52:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id g5sm19886080wra.2007.01.09.07.52.18;
        Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:52:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45A3BA2A.2010600@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 07:52:10 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
CC: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>, atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Type parameter implementation
References: <45A3A122.5080700@defuze.org>
In-Reply-To: <45A3A122.5080700@defuze.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32


I've added very preliminary support for it to Abdera.  Nothing major,
just a bit that detects the root node and outputs the media type
according and a bit that checks to see if the media type specifically
identifies an entry.  Once we're a bit further down the path towards
finalizing the spec, I'll add support to the server component for
checking the type.

- James

Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Wth the first version of the type parameter draft [1] recently released
> by James, I was wondering if implementors had started implementing it
> either in their Atom consumer or APP server/client?
> 
> Or is it to be considered too soon?
> 
> - Sylvain
> 
> [1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 09 22:48:44 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4USC-0005rP-SL
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:48:44 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4US9-0005aO-8S
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:48:44 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A3Id4m001618
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:18:40 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0A3IddU001612;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:18:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A3IbMv001604
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:18:37 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from ionrock@gmail.com)
Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so4308747pyh
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:18:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=SWO5SXIZvky/9f4yS+HKsS1Ny3UTgdH6RHKpQ2cn1RvCV7uBlWez8phwsxzDu0+Nko+nSa0k5A+8anbHliKxwlpu2xFiqz5isPVcdp/S4dUuFl6sb0EaMLdnyDKHST2N+9ls/UkVU2/hbC8HORzLDRsbI8R/8uVFCkYq27UjOzQ=
Received: by 10.35.20.14 with SMTP id x14mr52243256pyi.1168399116757;
        Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.35.71.15 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 19:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <6e46dd1e0701091918o4b4058d8i46cb25a5036cbc03@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:18:36 -0600
From: "Eric Larson" <ionrock@gmail.com>
To: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Type parameter implementation
Cc: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <sh@defuze.org>, atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <45A3BA2A.2010600@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <45A3A122.5080700@defuze.org> <45A3BA2A.2010600@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d


Would someone mind posting a use case for this draft?

I am not really sure I understand what it really does to make things
easier for clients. Also, I apologize if this isn't the correct list
for this question.

Thanks!

Eric

On 1/9/07, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've added very preliminary support for it to Abdera.  Nothing major,
> just a bit that detects the root node and outputs the media type
> according and a bit that checks to see if the media type specifically
> identifies an entry.  Once we're a bit further down the path towards
> finalizing the spec, I'll add support to the server component for
> checking the type.
>
> - James
>
> Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Wth the first version of the type parameter draft [1] recently released
> > by James, I was wondering if implementors had started implementing it
> > either in their Atom consumer or APP server/client?
> >
> > Or is it to be considered too soon?
> >
> > - Sylvain
> >
> > [1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
> >
> >
>
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 09 23:47:26 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4VN0-0004SW-GY
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:47:26 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4VMv-00044t-2K
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:47:26 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A4Ndvx005435
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:23:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0A4NdAZ005434;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:23:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from talk.nabble.com (www.nabble.com [72.21.53.35])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A4NchQ005428
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:23:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from lists@nabble.com)
Received: from [72.21.53.38] (helo=jubjub.nabble.com)
	by talk.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
	id 1H4Uzy-0002w6-3P
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:23:38 -0800
Message-ID: <8252034.post@talk.nabble.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:23:38 -0800 (PST)
From: fschmidt <fschmidt@gmail.com>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: atom dates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Nabble-From: fschmidt@gmail.com
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89



I implemented an atom feed as specified in RFC 2487 using the "updated" date
element.  But the dates in my feed doesn't work in atom readers like Google
Reader.  Other atom feeds use date elements like "issued", "modified", and
"created".  What date elements should I use and where are they documented?

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/atom-dates-tf2950590.html#a8252034
Sent from the atom-syntax mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 10 00:29:51 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4W23-0006Mj-2q
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:29:51 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4W1j-00059u-Pw
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:29:51 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A55F5j007628
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:05:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0A55FXW007627;
	Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:05:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.227])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0A55EaZ007620
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:05:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from whateley@gmail.com)
Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z3so4061201nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:05:14 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent;
        b=LQETN3hOOs9uXRL+Bi7A9fmslb/ALDUm6J8sswZ+MiZTCuQgKWdEabo6XoTicxzXcFqWmi/xISW65NBXF9YBWTM4NfQ71whPeXQlNn33JXZ1Agj7KGm8MiL1icZccnItiVqLWzC/fCvBCh3w2JryHFl3JMK32kw8DmAQU5wziVU=
Received: by 10.65.219.1 with SMTP id w1mr1724502qbq.1168405513772;
        Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nyarlathotep ( [68.148.224.166])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id e19sm32410302qba.2007.01.09.21.05.13;
        Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:49:41 -0700
From: Brendan Taylor <whateley@gmail.com>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: atom dates
Message-ID: <20070110044941.GB20844@nyarlathotep.ed.shawcable.net>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org
References: <8252034.post@talk.nabble.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <8252034.post@talk.nabble.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5



--SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 08:23:38PM -0800, fschmidt wrote:
> I implemented an atom feed as specified in RFC 2487 using the "updated" date
> element. But the dates in my feed doesn't work in atom readers like Google
> Reader.

What about them doesn't work?

> Other atom feeds use date elements like "issued", "modified", and
> "created".  What date elements should I use and where are they documented?

issued, modified and created are all from an old Atom draft. They
shouldn't be used any more.

The date constructs RFC 2487 defines are atom:updated and
atom:published. Both are described in the RFC.

--SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFpHBlc7m7RB/1A2URAnZDAJ9EOHtqfrZmhkZ1GOHy1V+ZVZbBEgCcDiDL
njTJ1/XyZVW2afnRwUjE8TY=
=PTBF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 10 07:25:29 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4cWH-00019D-Il
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:25:29 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4cWA-0008P4-VF
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:25:29 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ABjee3035876
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:45:40 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0ABje4r035875;
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:45:40 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0ABjcjK035857
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 04:45:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jan 2007 11:45:37 -0000
Received: from xdsl-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp048) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2007 12:45:37 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:45:36 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: atom dates
Message-ID: <20070110114536.GG31181@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org
References: <8252034.post@talk.nabble.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <8252034.post@talk.nabble.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
Organization: haphazard
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2


* fschmidt <fschmidt@gmail.com> [2007-01-10 05:40]:
> I implemented an atom feed as specified in RFC 2487 using the
> "updated" date element. But the dates in my feed doesn't work
> in atom readers like Google Reader.

The second sentence seems to be contradicting the first.

Did you validate your feed?

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 10 10:11:30 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4f6w-0006rd-55
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:11:30 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4f6O-0005DZ-U1
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:10:58 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AEQ7vY048732
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:26:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0AEQ724048731;
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:26:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.231])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AEQ6lE048716
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:26:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from ionrock@gmail.com)
Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id z3so84725nzf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:26:06 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=Z8XJPD2XWcJu7JiMjM7DH1pSN5Gwv6ZNP7DUGHxYN993IyESYH5+iArkrBhRKuBWUFXPmATaaA1h14yz6PfQaw71OiqhUmjA1f2F1oRbQ53T0xi9uZ24G0tJPmkxtwdTYwykWBYcyI4V1mje9VJHZrAuuh2jbbhcP2fljebOCWs=
Received: by 10.35.96.7 with SMTP id y7mr659142pyl.1168439166488;
        Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:26:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.35.71.15 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:26:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <6e46dd1e0701100626x1780a1f0qe1110c0efbf6ca38@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:26:01 -0600
From: "Eric Larson" <ionrock@gmail.com>
To: "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Type parameter implementation
Cc: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <sh@defuze.org>, atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
In-Reply-To: <6e46dd1e0701091918o4b4058d8i46cb25a5036cbc03@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <45A3A122.5080700@defuze.org> <45A3BA2A.2010600@gmail.com>
	 <6e46dd1e0701091918o4b4058d8i46cb25a5036cbc03@mail.gmail.com>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002


Sorry posting this message. I found a thread or two that gave me some
clarity. I just added a type to my APP implementation, so maybe it
will help to clarify the I-D.

Thanks!

Eric

On 1/9/07, Eric Larson <ionrock@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would someone mind posting a use case for this draft?
>
> I am not really sure I understand what it really does to make things
> easier for clients. Also, I apologize if this isn't the correct list
> for this question.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
>
> On 1/9/07, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've added very preliminary support for it to Abdera.  Nothing major,
> > just a bit that detects the root node and outputs the media type
> > according and a bit that checks to see if the media type specifically
> > identifies an entry.  Once we're a bit further down the path towards
> > finalizing the spec, I'll add support to the server component for
> > checking the type.
> >
> > - James
> >
> > Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > Wth the first version of the type parameter draft [1] recently released
> > > by James, I was wondering if implementors had started implementing it
> > > either in their Atom consumer or APP server/client?
> > >
> > > Or is it to be considered too soon?
> > >
> > > - Sylvain
> > >
> > > [1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 10 12:33:12 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4hK4-0004Uj-NU
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:33:12 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4hJt-0007Dt-SJ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:33:12 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AH7ou0066027
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:07:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0AH7ok5066026;
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:07:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.173])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AH7mbE066019
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:07:49 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from hwinkler@gmail.com)
Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j3so171289ugf
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:07:47 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=CmrarcJOn+XONq7LnLNCGT4llP7LoWpeRjyXeh+yXFaTCwh3vfV4q/eVG0gh4nen5xrkVeQHAffZ0zNp7RhrtnUEk8ZVmtupxJecs48ERwJS9JnqgKCVSZTxLZbrqoQuaho2oFzPfEUMZ7ZSoA9G+yz9H1AUIfwWsDyBqJsfoIg=
Received: by 10.82.113.6 with SMTP id l6mr116166buc.1168448867196;
        Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:07:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.82.116.19 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:07:47 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:07:47 -0600
From: "Hugh Winkler" <hughw@wellstorm.com>
To: "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org, atom-syntax@imc.org
In-Reply-To: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: f5f504941b76a3c7
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a


The draft makes no mention of file extensions.

"Atom Feed and Entry Documents can have different processing models
and there are situations where they need to be differentiated."

It would be good to enumerate some of those situations, and to examine
whether processing software depending on file extensions also requires
such differentiation. If ithe processing model is different enough to
require distinction in the mime type, it's important enough to require
distinction in the file system where mime types usually are forgotten.

Server software responsible for inserting correct Content-type header
can *possibly* set the correct value when serving a file, if the
type="entry" and type="feed" documents have distinct file extensions.
(I think this server behavior is an accident of implementation,
because I've never encountered a mime type parameter in any
"mime.types" file or in the Windows registry).

Client software receiving a file similarly consults a mime types
registry. I do not think any client software today would correctly be
able to save the file with the correct file extension, because it
would have had to have been programmed to parse all the parameters
(including possible parameters to be defined in the future). If the
client software has this entry in its registry:

application/atom+xml; type="entry"

and receives a file with this header:

Content-type: application/atom+xml; type="entry"
or this
Content-type: application/atom+xml; gdatakind="event"; type="entry"

there's little chance existing client software will assign the correct
file extension to the saved file.

On the other hand, if the draft assigned a new mime type to denote
entries, all existing processing software on server and client side
would correctly map content-type to file extension.

Hugh

On 1/2/07, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : The application/atom+xml Type Parameter
>         Author(s)       : J. Snell
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
>         Pages           : 6
>         Date            : 2007-1-2
>
>
>    The Atom Syndication Format (RFC 4287) defines the 'application/
>    atom+xml' media type to identify both Atom Feed and Atom Entry
>    Documents.  This document defines an optional 'type' parameter used
>    to differentiate the two types of Atom documents.
>
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
>


-- 
Hugh Winkler
Wellstorm Development

http://www.wellstorm.com/
+1 512 694 4795 mobile (preferred)
+1 512 264 3998 office




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 10 13:10:21 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4hu1-0004Hn-4e
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:10:21 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4hto-00039Q-Ve
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:10:21 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AHj6Oq069396
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:45:06 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0AHj6QT069395;
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:45:06 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0AHj2UM069383
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:45:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sh@defuze.org)
Received: from [192.168.1.3] (host81-159-21-245.range81-159.btcentralplus.com [81.159.21.245])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0AHivJL007536;
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:45:00 -0600
Message-ID: <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:44:51 +0000
From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070104)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Hugh Winkler <hughw@wellstorm.com>
CC: atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5


Hugh Winkler wrote:
> 
> The draft makes no mention of file extensions.
> 
> "Atom Feed and Entry Documents can have different processing models
> and there are situations where they need to be differentiated."
> 
> It would be good to enumerate some of those situations, and to examine
> whether processing software depending on file extensions also requires
> such differentiation. If ithe processing model is different enough to
> require distinction in the mime type, it's important enough to require
> distinction in the file system where mime types usually are forgotten.
> 
> Server software responsible for inserting correct Content-type header
> can *possibly* set the correct value when serving a file, if the
> type="entry" and type="feed" documents have distinct file extensions.
> (I think this server behavior is an accident of implementation,
> because I've never encountered a mime type parameter in any
> "mime.types" file or in the Windows registry).
> 
> Client software receiving a file similarly consults a mime types
> registry. I do not think any client software today would correctly be
> able to save the file with the correct file extension, because it
> would have had to have been programmed to parse all the parameters
> (including possible parameters to be defined in the future). If the
> client software has this entry in its registry:
> 
> application/atom+xml; type="entry"
> 
> and receives a file with this header:
> 
> Content-type: application/atom+xml; type="entry"
> or this
> Content-type: application/atom+xml; gdatakind="event"; type="entry"
> 
> there's little chance existing client software will assign the correct
> file extension to the saved file.
> 
> On the other hand, if the draft assigned a new mime type to denote
> entries, all existing processing software on server and client side
> would correctly map content-type to file extension.
> 
> Hugh
> 

Fair point but it has been extensively discussed in a previous thread
and it appears that few people were keen on adding an entirely new media
type. While the type parameter may not be ideal it seemed to be lest
disruptive. I personally agree that a new media type would enforce the
correct and native distinction between entry and feed but most people
who have participated didn't feel like there was such a string requirement.

- Sylvain




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 06:11:53 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4xqb-0001LN-7I
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:11:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H4xqY-0002XY-Lh
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:11:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAflH5039714
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:41:47 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BAflax039713;
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:41:47 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BAfib7039697
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:41:45 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.62)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1H4xNM-0001fG-2s; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:41:40 +0100
Received: from ultra17.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.107]:63011)
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.62 #12)
	id 1H4xNL-000837-R1; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:41:39 +0100
Message-ID: <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:41:36 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061220)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
CC: Hugh Winkler <hughw@wellstorm.com>, atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com> <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org>
In-Reply-To: <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464


Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
> Hugh Winkler wrote:
>> The draft makes no mention of file extensions.
>>
>> Server software responsible for inserting correct Content-type header
>> can *possibly* set the correct value when serving a file, if the
>> type="entry" and type="feed" documents have distinct file extensions.
>> (I think this server behavior is an accident of implementation,
>> because I've never encountered a mime type parameter in any
>> "mime.types" file or in the Windows registry).
> 
> Fair point but it has been extensively discussed in a previous thread
> and it appears that few people were keen on adding an entirely new media
> type. While the type parameter may not be ideal it seemed to be lest
> disruptive. I personally agree that a new media type would enforce the
> correct and native distinction between entry and feed but most people
> who have participated didn't feel like there was such a string requirement.

The OP has a (different) point, though: Recommending distinct file 
extensions for "application/atom+xml; type=entry" and 
application/atom+xml; type=feed" is worthwhile.

If, e.g., the mime.types shipped with Apache already contains 
appropriate entries, this would aid the fast adoption of the new, 
parameterized "application/atom+xml". Hence it would be worthwhile to 
include file extension recommendations in the I-D.

Regards,

Andreas




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 11:14:27 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H52ZP-0002Pa-2C
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:14:27 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H52ZN-0007zB-3C
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:14:27 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BFiOCj067102
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:44:24 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BFiOmm067101;
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:44:24 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.226])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BFiMNo067076
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:44:23 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so356135wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:44:19 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=T5AHbpWwJ9pQiH00hq1q4QtzXMn8/9jVrEjSoVEFr6EwRjihv5A7nSQuObctPD2OpCIOkNbVLKZK5bnhRsmgSf9cPSgKS6m7A0Z6CSx/G+z8c7/7FqQRBSxgz2K0h/swvAxtjpNFep1alvuODwn6FVFcrLb9kPrajWgXbePUxJY=
Received: by 10.90.113.18 with SMTP id l18mr1131861agc.1168530259567;
        Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:44:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11sm1826939wrl.2007.01.11.07.44.17;
        Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45A65B48.6040908@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:44:08 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
CC: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>, Hugh Winkler <hughw@wellstorm.com>,
        atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com> <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org> <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
In-Reply-To: <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d


+1

Andreas Sewe wrote:
> 
> Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
>> Hugh Winkler wrote:
>>> The draft makes no mention of file extensions.
>>>
>>> Server software responsible for inserting correct Content-type header
>>> can *possibly* set the correct value when serving a file, if the
>>> type="entry" and type="feed" documents have distinct file extensions.
>>> (I think this server behavior is an accident of implementation,
>>> because I've never encountered a mime type parameter in any
>>> "mime.types" file or in the Windows registry).
>>
>> Fair point but it has been extensively discussed in a previous thread
>> and it appears that few people were keen on adding an entirely new media
>> type. While the type parameter may not be ideal it seemed to be lest
>> disruptive. I personally agree that a new media type would enforce the
>> correct and native distinction between entry and feed but most people
>> who have participated didn't feel like there was such a string
>> requirement.
> 
> The OP has a (different) point, though: Recommending distinct file
> extensions for "application/atom+xml; type=entry" and
> application/atom+xml; type=feed" is worthwhile.
> 
> If, e.g., the mime.types shipped with Apache already contains
> appropriate entries, this would aid the fast adoption of the new,
> parameterized "application/atom+xml". Hence it would be worthwhile to
> include file extension recommendations in the I-D.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andreas
> 
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jan 11 12:31:53 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H53mL-0001nX-Cf
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:31:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H53mJ-0007w4-VT
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:31:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BHA9cx075162
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:10:09 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0BHA9uC075161;
	Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:10:09 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0BHA7dJ075137
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:10:08 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from ionrock@gmail.com)
Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u52so255510pyb
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:10:05 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=Ra5BbOQObbNIMnzFWiEtOwX4B4tqVWInuP7vzgbtlDkv/PBnTIqQnZcF+R4vpGB90lfbGRbC2HQfmsSN5Io84C+phXssB+r4RqdLwArREh+naaYq8nSFZv6XZoagPEfkXIWOlH8S73viH6eztcVAh+OiZyAvXfdqkJy413LhEgc=
Received: by 10.35.121.2 with SMTP id y2mr2867451pym.1168535405519;
        Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:10:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.35.71.15 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:10:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <6e46dd1e0701110910o1e6d2574sdd2a838ad21f78d3@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:10:05 -0600
From: "Eric Larson" <ionrock@gmail.com>
To: "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
Cc: "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <sh@defuze.org>,
        "Hugh Winkler" <hughw@wellstorm.com>,
        atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org
In-Reply-To: <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
	 <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com>
	 <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org>
	 <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1


+1

On 1/11/07, Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>
> Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
> > Hugh Winkler wrote:
> >> The draft makes no mention of file extensions.
> >>
> >> Server software responsible for inserting correct Content-type header
> >> can *possibly* set the correct value when serving a file, if the
> >> type="entry" and type="feed" documents have distinct file extensions.
> >> (I think this server behavior is an accident of implementation,
> >> because I've never encountered a mime type parameter in any
> >> "mime.types" file or in the Windows registry).
> >
> > Fair point but it has been extensively discussed in a previous thread
> > and it appears that few people were keen on adding an entirely new media
> > type. While the type parameter may not be ideal it seemed to be lest
> > disruptive. I personally agree that a new media type would enforce the
> > correct and native distinction between entry and feed but most people
> > who have participated didn't feel like there was such a string requirement.
>
> The OP has a (different) point, though: Recommending distinct file
> extensions for "application/atom+xml; type=entry" and
> application/atom+xml; type=feed" is worthwhile.
>
> If, e.g., the mime.types shipped with Apache already contains
> appropriate entries, this would aid the fast adoption of the new,
> parameterized "application/atom+xml". Hence it would be worthwhile to
> include file extension recommendations in the I-D.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andreas
>
>




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jan 13 20:51:24 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H5uWq-0007QC-Jz
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:51:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H5uWm-0004z0-6W
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:51:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0E1UfMq088571
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:30:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0E1UfYl088569;
	Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:30:41 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from csmtp1.b-one.net (csmtp.b-one.net [195.47.247.21])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0E1UdbT088557;
	Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:30:40 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from asbjorn@tigerstaden.no)
Received: from quark (ti211110a080-15336.bb.online.no [85.165.123.232])
	by csmtp1.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F20D1911605B;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:30:38 +0100 (CET)
To: "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <sh@defuze.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?= <asbjorn@tigerstaden.no>
Cc: "Hugh Winkler" <hughw@wellstorm.com>,
        atom-protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <927441b30701100907r6e3740ffi8e353d025048e347@mail.gmail.com> <45A52613.1020508@defuze.org> <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:31:50 +0100
Message-ID: <op.tl4ejcc716f2qb@quark>
In-Reply-To: <45A61460.1080409@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.10 (Win32)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0702-1, 11.01.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0E1UfMq088571
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126


On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:41:36 +0100, Andreas Sewe =20
<sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> The OP has a (different) point, though: Recommending distinct file =20
> extensions for "application/atom+xml; type=3Dentry" and =20
> application/atom+xml; type=3Dfeed" is worthwhile.
>
> If, e.g., the mime.types shipped with Apache already contains =20
> appropriate entries, this would aid the fast adoption of the new, =20
> parameterized "application/atom+xml". Hence it would be worthwhile to =20
> include file extension recommendations in the I-D.

Indeed. +1.

--=20
Asbj=F8rn Ulsberg     -=3D|=3D-    http://virtuelvis.com/quark/
=ABHe's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away=BB




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 14 15:23:31 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Bt5-0007OB-LX
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:23:31 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Bt3-0003KS-Qv
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:23:31 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0EK4U2U057527
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:04:30 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0EK4UvU057526;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:04:30 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0EK4MUf057504
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:04:27 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from djpowell@djpowell.net)
Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35])
          by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20070114200419.TPMU9447.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>;
          Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:04:19 +0000
Received: from [86.4.230.193] by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP
          id <20070114200419.RICA26699.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[86.4.230.193]>;
          Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:04:19 +0000
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:04:12 +0000
From: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.95.3) Professional
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
To: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
CC: "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org,
        "Bjoern Hoehrmann" <derhoermi@gmx.net>, "Karl Dubost" <karl@w3.org>,
        "Mike Linksvayer" <ml@creativecommons.org>,
        "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "Thomas Roessler" <tlr@w3.org>, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.org>,
        "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>, "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>,
        "Antone Roundy" <antone@geckotribe.com>,
        "Robert Sparks" <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
        "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of license grants by entries in a feed
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45be5cd40612161755j997553cv8a728be443b54cbe@mail.gmail.com> <146868075.20061217223322@djpowell.net> <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: a0534e6179a1e260079328e8b03c7901



Sorry for the delay in responding. I disagree that feed elements apply
to the feed document and not the feed itself. I believe that both the
spirit and letter of the specification make it clear that feed
elements are metadata about the feed not the document, and the typical
behaviour of implementations seems to agree.

I agree that it is important to distinguish between feeds and feed
documents, and this is why I think that feed level inheritance of
licenses should be dropped as it is incompatible with Atom.


Monday, December 18, 2006, 10:22:17 PM, Bob Wyman wrote:

> On 12/17/06, David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net> wrote:
>>  What you can do however, is to specify that feed licenses apply to the
>> "feed", and inherit to the entries in the feed. ... It
>> means that the license applies to all entries in that feed,  not just
>> ones in that specific feed document. This is probably reasonable
>> behaviour for licenses anyway.

> Particularly in the case of licenses, it is very important to
> distinguish between the "feed" or stream of all entries (past,
> present and future) associated with a feed id and the actual feed
> documents that encapsulate subsets of that stream.

> Atom provides no mechanism for associating meta-data with "feeds."

The text of RFC4287 seems to contradict this:

  The "atom:feed" element is the document (i.e., top-level) element of
  an Atom Feed Document, acting as a container for metadata and data
  associated with the feed.


Atom does support inheritance of <author> and <rights> elements, but
only because this is behaviour is clearly documented in the core
specification, so there can be no doubt of how implementations should
process these elements:

  If an atom:entry element does not contain atom:author elements, then
  the atom:author elements of the contained atom:source element are
  considered to apply. In an Atom Feed Document, the atom:author
  elements of the containing atom:feed element are considered to apply
  to the entry if there are no atom:author elements in the locations
  described above.

Effectively, this inheritance can be implemented by copying the
elements at the feed document parsing stage.


You can't just say that the license extension inherits and expect
every implementation out there to implement that.  You'd need an Atom
2.0 to do that: either support for must-understand (which was rejected
from Atom 1.0), or a special feed document extension container.  I
agree that feed document inheritance would be a useful feature, but as
we don't have it we'll have to write out these duplicate elements
longhand.  It isn't such a big deal though.


It also seems obvious to me that feed elements are metadata applied
to the feed based on the expected behaviour of implementations.  As an
example:

I observed a feed that I am subscribed to in Bloglines change its feed
title in the feed list pane. The feed did this by changing the value
of the <title> element for the feed. Surely you wouldn't say that no
conclusion can be drawn from this change in feed document as to the
intended change in state of the feed?

The whole feed model is based around changing feed documents
communicating the latest state of the feed; for both the entries in
the feed and the feed itself.

In fact the whole web is based around the fact that representations of
resources can vary over time, and that the latest representation is,
the latest.


> Data in one feed document does not apply to entries found in another
> feed document -- or to entries that stand-alone. Feed meta-data
> found in one feed document does not override, compliment or
> invalidate feed meta-data found in other feed documents.

If you poll a feed twice you have two feed documents.  These are
obviously related.  If I update an entry element, then the latter
version is understood to be a replacement.  You can correlate them by
the entry ids and updated.  If I update a feed element, then the
latter version is understood to be the replacement.  What's the
problem?  I don't see how it could work any other way.

> This is one of the many reasons we have atom:source -- so that we
> can bind specific feed meta-data to an entry no matter what context
> in which that entry might appear or when it might be read.

Atom doesn't describe the processing model of Atom documents
explicitly enough for me to infer much about the semantics of
atom:source.  If you want each entry (or a group of entries within a
document) to have its own private feed state, then atom:source is one
way to implement that.  Needing to do that is a good sign that you are
abusing feed elements to carry entry metadata though.

> If we had a case where data in one feed document overrides data in
> other feed documents, we'd have a mess. Some of the questions that
> we'd have to answer are:

> + Elements like atom:author, atom:contributor and atom:rights can
> and do change over time -- sometimes frequently. If such a change
> occurs, does it mean that we've implied a change to all previous
> entries published in all previously published feed documents? 

RFC4287 is clear about the semantics of these elements. They apply to
the feed, and are also inherited to the entries. They can do that
because that behaviour is prescribed in the RFC; we can't do that for
license extensions because it is not.

The authorship of the feed applies to the feed in general.  The
authors of boingboing might be Mark, Cory, David, Xeni, and John.
That doesn't mean that these have to be updated dynamically depending
on who the actual authors of each of the 10 entries in the feed are at
that instant.  Admittedly the behaviour of these "inheriting"
elements, and the interactions between their applicability to the feed
and to the entries is a bit odd.  I don't like it much.

> (i.e. if the earlier Feed document had an atom:contributor field but
> a later Feed Document does not, does this mean that we wipe out
> knowledge of the contributor who might have been essential to
> creating some of the earlier entries? (That's kind of heartless --
> it would be a high tech version of "What have you done for me
> lately?...") Or, do we improperly maintain the old contributor as a
> contributor of new entries --potentially long after the contributor
> has died?)

If you want the contributor to apply specifically to entries that the
contributor wrote, then put it on the entry.  If you just want to
describe general current contributor-ship then put it on the feed.

> + If data is present in one feed doc but not another later document,
> does the absence of the data in the later document override the
> previous document or do we combine what we know from both documents?

The former.  Its the same with feeds as it is with entries.

> + How do we handle mistakes? For instance, if after
> publishing several thousand feed documents in sequence, I might
> publish one that accidentally grants "all rights to everyone" when I
> really meant to grant only "non-commercial" rights. Does the new
> badly coded feed document force all of the thousands of entries I've
> been working on over time into the public domain even if that wasn't
> what I intended?

If you post a message on your website that says that all of your
website is in the public domain, by mistake, does that force all of
your website into the public domain.  I don't know, I'm not lawyer.

> + How do I "repair" the mistake discussed immediately
> above? If I publish a new feed document with a license grant for
> "non-commercial use," does that then apply to all previously
> published entries -- including those that were accidentally
> published with over-generous rights?

Yes.

> Does this mean that I can use a license in one feed document to
> *restrict* or rescind rights granted by another feed document? (This
> would be a very bad thing...)

Yes, documents on the Internet aren't immutable. I don't see how this
is surprising.

> + If I have an aggregator that picks up some content which is
> licensed for general use today, how can I be sure that I can still
> use the content tomorrow? If the content of a Feed Document applies
> retroactively, it would seem that I have to re-fetch the feed every
> time I use content from the feed so that I can check the metadata.
> This doesn't seem to make sense. If I were sued by someone, could I
> use the argument: "But, I didn't read the new, more restrictive Feed
> Documents!" Is ignorance an excuse?

The whole web works this way.  Here is a link:

http://www.apple.com/legal/terms/site.html  

How can you know that these terms and conditions haven't changed once
you've read them?  You can't.


>> if you store a feed in an implementation such as 
>> Microsoft's Feed Engine, only a single set of feed
>> extensions will be associated with the feed.

> While it is important to be aware of the inadequacies (as well as
> the strengths) of implementations by companies with significant
> market power, I don't think that we can simply delegate the
> standards writing process to such companies or modify standards to
> cover up their bugs. The fact that Microsoft or any other company
> has done the wrong thing should not, in itself, be sufficient to
> dictate the development of standards. Hopefully, they will
> eventually see the error in their ways and correct them. 

I believe that that implementation is behaving correctly. It follows
the RFC and it is no different that other feed readers I've seen.

-- 
Dave





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 14 18:13:43 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6EXn-0004S6-Fq
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:13:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6EXk-000113-WF
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:13:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0EMtsiL069580
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:55:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0EMtscL069579;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:55:54 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.228])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0EMtq7e069573
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:55:53 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so1381386wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:55:52 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=KA3R4HGnFxHylgkGSwcyCTeCZkaawh/6HIZEsbAhnbwo1Tk698AV5j2yJq03M8FN7I58ppn5vmov0Uk4vKeXuS4HByI7sTq3ceZmyWW1JrM/QsrtzDOjYJGjyKthwCj9uqRJ8cTZaNXMh9wSxXDo73hsvH4FONiwJisWGTFooxw=
Received: by 10.90.105.20 with SMTP id d20mr2379660agc.1168815350695;
        Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:55:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.16 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:55:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701141455l13a91056if9ea26749ad9e953@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:55:50 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "David Powell" <djpowell@djpowell.net>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of license grants by entries in a feed
Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org,
        "Bjoern Hoehrmann" <derhoermi@gmx.net>, "Karl Dubost" <karl@w3.org>,
        "Mike Linksvayer" <ml@creativecommons.org>,
        "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "Thomas Roessler" <tlr@w3.org>, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.org>,
        "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>, "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>,
        "Antone Roundy" <antone@geckotribe.com>,
        "Robert Sparks" <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
        "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_124755_14111838.1168815350623"
References: <45be5cd40612161755j997553cv8a728be443b54cbe@mail.gmail.com>
	 <146868075.20061217223322@djpowell.net>
	 <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: a1bed0fd43db5a8a
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465


------=_Part_124755_14111838.1168815350623
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net> wrote:> You can't just say
that the license extension inherits and
> expect every implementation out there to implement that.
>  You'd need an Atom 2.0 to do that: either support for
> must-understand (which was rejected from Atom 1.0),
> or a special feed document extension container.

An implementation should only do things based on the license extension if it
understands what the license extension means. Since the draft now has
carefully written words to ensure that license extensions only grant
additional rights and do not restrict default rights, the worst case
situation is that an implementation that doesn't understand the license
extension inheritance will simply treat entries as though they only had
normal, copyright-defined rights associated with them. i.e. You would get
fair use, implied right to syndicate, right to read, right to make
facilitative copies, etc. but you wouldn't realize that you also get
whatever extra rights were granted by the license. This is, I think a
reasonable fall-back. Of course, implementations that do understand that
feed-level licenses are inherited will be able to manage rights just a bit
better. This is a good thing.

A failure to properly implement license inheritance tends to limit what the
*reader* believes they can do with entries, but it doesn't do any "harm" to
the owner of the intellectual property in the entries since no one can
believe that they have rights not granted. The worst that can happen is that
readers don't know all the rights they have. This is acceptable, in my
opinion.

bob wyman

------=_Part_124755_14111838.1168815350623
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">David Powell</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:djpowell@djpowell.net">djpowell@djpowell.net</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><div>&gt; You can&#39;t just say that the license extension inherits and
<br>&gt; expect every implementation out there to implement that.<br>&gt;&nbsp; You&#39;d need an Atom 2.0 to do that: either support for<br>&gt; must-understand (which was rejected from Atom 1.0), <br>&gt; or a special feed document extension container.
<br><br>An implementation should only do things based on the license extension if it understands what the license extension means. Since the draft now has carefully written words to ensure that license extensions only grant additional rights and do not restrict default rights, the worst case situation is that an implementation that doesn&#39;t understand the license extension inheritance will simply treat entries as though they only had normal, copyright-defined rights associated with them. 
i.e. You would get fair use, implied right to syndicate, right to read, right to make facilitative copies, etc. but you wouldn&#39;t realize that you also get whatever extra rights were granted by the license. This is, I think a reasonable fall-back. Of course, implementations that do understand that feed-level licenses are inherited will be able to manage rights just a bit better. This is a good thing. 
<br><br>A failure to properly implement license inheritance tends to limit what the *reader* believes they can do with entries, but it doesn&#39;t do any &quot;harm&quot; to the owner of the intellectual property in the entries since no one can believe that they have rights not granted. The worst that can happen is that readers don&#39;t know all the rights they have. This is acceptable, in my opinion.
<br><br>bob wyman<br></div></div><br>

------=_Part_124755_14111838.1168815350623--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 14 18:37:32 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Euq-0008A4-7v
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:37:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Euo-0004nO-RL
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:37:32 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ENHdni071398
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:17:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0ENHdoh071397;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:17:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ENHaSA071388
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:17:37 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so1384974wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:36 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=i28eR8fLjKFNoSVdcy+FzigEy0h/UTxR2IRoDaSFEcDlaoocuBnRaGMQh6rEqtINHb1miTQNF46taFQRYg76H9iQy3nKXt4kgUmwi5Eq6UJEEoVGsKCuivoI/0ArfJPpFaBJA66ngmczi41Pii8IC8Q57K/MFMv0e1THD8iY/jg=
Received: by 10.70.75.14 with SMTP id x14mr6648806wxa.1168816656006;
        Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24sm10148667wrl.2007.01.14.15.17.34;
        Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45AABA0C.8000503@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:32 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Atom license extension - final stages
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25


All,

The Atom license extension is continuing to move forward.  Based on some
last call comments that were received, I have decided to add two
additional items to the spec:

 1. An equivalence rule for license URIs

 2. A IANA registry for common license URIs

Over the next week I'll be working up the details of each and will be
posting a new draft, likely by next Friday.

- James




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 14 18:58:23 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6FF1-00017t-FU
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:58:23 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6FEz-0007hc-S4
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:58:23 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ENhEbL072735
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:43:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0ENhED2072734;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:43:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.234])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ENhCdb072728
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:43:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so941052wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:43:12 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=oDM4nVXMTCbbrQ1be7MDe8W1ZwqJD5ztxeqMNIyktxp6lVbps2KVauF4IwqxblI4VWl/WSZA3hgMobcTa9cVu3ihpurMIKXBFlMiPHi2PLY6/R64dkSwm6P0BTWtD3ZvKo1WTc0p094mJyRs/DGiKqbj3ihcpJPlOf+GDbo/5AU=
Received: by 10.90.84.17 with SMTP id h17mr2391313agb.1168818190918;
        Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.16 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701141543t4ff3c962l9dd6be3d7ffec0db@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:43:10 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "David Powell" <djpowell@djpowell.net>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of license grants by entries in a feed
Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org,
        "Bjoern Hoehrmann" <derhoermi@gmx.net>, "Karl Dubost" <karl@w3.org>,
        "Mike Linksvayer" <ml@creativecommons.org>,
        "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "Thomas Roessler" <tlr@w3.org>, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.org>,
        "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>, "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>,
        "Antone Roundy" <antone@geckotribe.com>,
        "Robert Sparks" <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
        "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_125192_18543175.1168818190706"
References: <45be5cd40612161755j997553cv8a728be443b54cbe@mail.gmail.com>
	 <146868075.20061217223322@djpowell.net>
	 <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: e1761ea05915eccd
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8


------=_Part_125192_18543175.1168818190706
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net> wrote:>Atom doesn't
describe the processing model of Atom
> documents explicitly enough for me to infer much about
> the semantics of atom:source. ...
> Needing to [use atom:source] is a good sign that you
> are abusing feed elements to carry entry metadata
> though.

There are quite a few very common, non-abusive reasons for using
atom:source. For instance, the RFC clearly discusses the case where an entry
is copied from one feed document into another and needs to maintain its
association with the feed metadata of the source feed. There is also the
question of signatures....

In any case, I read the Atom spec as clearly intending that an entry with an
atom:source element can be semantically equivalent to a single entry feed
document whose feed meta-data is equivelant to that contained in the entry's
atom:source. If this isn't what appears to be written, then I suggest that
it is a case of non-optimal drafting and the history of this group should be
consulted to clarify the intent. I explained why entries with source needed
to be equivelant to single entry feeds when I made the original proposal for
atom:source at the first Atom community meeting at Sun in June of 2004 and I
made it continuously throughout the process of drafting the RFC. This is
also one of the many reasons why Atom "assigns no significance to the order
of atom:entry elements within the feed." The meaning of an entry derives
only from data which is either encoded within it or which is recorded as
part of the feed metadata associated with the entry. That association is
either by containment within a feed document or, more strongly, by
encapsulating the feed metadata within the entry. This equivelance property
is essential in order to make aggregated/synthetic feeds work and it is
necessary to make licensing work properly. (Yes, there were some of us
thinking about licensing long before James made his proposal...) Thus, the
"processing model" for an entry with an atom:source is just as precisely
described as the processing model for a single entry feed document...

bob wyman

------=_Part_125192_18543175.1168818190706
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">David Powell</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:djpowell@djpowell.net">djpowell@djpowell.net</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><div>&gt;Atom doesn&#39;t describe the processing model of Atom
<br>&gt; documents explicitly enough for me to infer much about<br>&gt; the semantics of atom:source. ...<br>&gt; Needing to [use atom:source] is a good sign that you<br>&gt; are abusing feed elements to carry entry metadata
<br>&gt; though.<br><br>There are quite a few very common, non-abusive reasons for using atom:source. For instance, the RFC clearly discusses the case where an entry is copied from one feed document into another and needs to maintain its association with the feed metadata of the source feed. There is also the question of signatures....
<br><br>In any case, I read the Atom spec as clearly intending that an entry with an atom:source element can be semantically equivalent to a single entry feed document whose feed meta-data is equivelant to that contained in the entry&#39;s atom:source. If this isn&#39;t what appears to be written, then I suggest that it is a case of non-optimal drafting and the history of this group should be consulted to clarify the intent. I explained why entries with source needed to be equivelant to single entry feeds when I made the original proposal for atom:source at the first Atom community meeting at Sun in June of 2004 and I made it continuously throughout the process of drafting the RFC. This is also one of the many reasons why Atom &quot;assigns no significance to the order of atom:entry
<span style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span></span>elements within the feed.&quot; The meaning of an entry derives only from data which is either encoded within it or which is recorded as part of the feed metadata associated with the entry. That association is either by containment within a feed document or, more strongly, by encapsulating the feed metadata within the entry. This equivelance property is essential in order to make aggregated/synthetic feeds work and it is necessary to make licensing work properly. (Yes, there were some of us thinking about licensing long before James made his proposal...) Thus, the &quot;processing model&quot; for an entry with an atom:source is just as precisely described as the processing model for a single entry feed document...
<br><br>bob wyman<br></div></div><br>

------=_Part_125192_18543175.1168818190706--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 14 19:38:24 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Frk-0004mz-76
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:38:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6Fri-0006XK-P1
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:38:24 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0F0GaLF074849
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:16:36 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0F0Gaq0074848;
	Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:16:36 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0F0GZbh074842
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:16:36 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so1394888wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:16:35 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=RYz9UO5Rw+IXKUGlpG7qlKEpq/c00wfGeDZrecNOajM4V9NNCYgaqhWJ8lusnC3gLTsbc0PbvU+MajMjoZ9eWnyZbpsUNCKPyoxPrQOAyVaaM8QPsSpT3j0v+jQrUGHcePtE+xfYhM0LrqEIlIkcj59YI/Aie1qDdBFo239+EKE=
Received: by 10.90.29.2 with SMTP id c2mr2406602agc.1168820184280;
        Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:16:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.16 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:16:24 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701141616q1b3d6bbbxf4739ccc086aeb68@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:16:24 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "David Powell" <djpowell@djpowell.net>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of license grants by entries in a feed
Cc: "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org,
        "Bjoern Hoehrmann" <derhoermi@gmx.net>, "Karl Dubost" <karl@w3.org>,
        "Mike Linksvayer" <ml@creativecommons.org>,
        "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        "Thomas Roessler" <tlr@w3.org>, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.org>,
        "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>, "John Panzer" <jpanzer@aol.net>,
        "Antone Roundy" <antone@geckotribe.com>,
        "Robert Sparks" <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
        "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_125424_25251263.1168820184211"
References: <45be5cd40612161755j997553cv8a728be443b54cbe@mail.gmail.com>
	 <146868075.20061217223322@djpowell.net>
	 <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 98954eac6530b748
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f


------=_Part_125424_25251263.1168820184211
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net> wrote:> I agree that it is
important to distinguish between feeds
> and feed documents, and this is why I think that feed
> level inheritance of licenses should be dropped as it is
> incompatible with Atom.
Inheritance can't be "incompatible" with Atom since Atom defines it.
I do agree with you, however, if you argue that Atom would have been cleaner
without inheritance. Without inheritance, feed level meta-data would only
apply to the "collection" which contains entries and not to the entries
themselves. Without inheritance, we wouldn't need atom:source -- we would
have only needed atom:provenance (a simple link to an entry's origin feed
similar to the source element in RSS. Note: Synthetic feed producers still
would have wanted atom:source as a convenient way to reduce the need to
repeatedly fetch feed documents to get atom:title values.) However, folk
really wanted to keep inheritance of the feed metadata and so we ended up
having to define something more complex.

bob wyman

------=_Part_125424_25251263.1168820184211
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/14/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">David Powell</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:djpowell@djpowell.net">djpowell@djpowell.net</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><div>&gt; I agree that it is important to distinguish between feeds
<br>&gt; and feed documents, and this is why I think that feed<br>&gt; level inheritance of licenses should be dropped as it is<br>&gt; incompatible with Atom.<br><span class="q">Inheritance can&#39;t be &quot;incompatible&quot; with Atom since Atom defines it.
<br>I do agree with you, however, if you argue that Atom would have been cleaner without inheritance. Without inheritance, feed level meta-data would only apply to the &quot;collection&quot; which contains entries and not to the entries themselves. Without inheritance, we wouldn&#39;t need atom:source -- we would have only needed atom:provenance (a simple link to an entry&#39;s origin feed similar to the source element in RSS. Note: Synthetic feed producers still would have wanted atom:source as a convenient way to reduce the need to repeatedly fetch feed documents to get atom:title values.) However, folk really wanted to keep inheritance of the feed metadata and so we ended up having to define something more complex. 
<br><br>bob wyman<br></span></div></div><br>

------=_Part_125424_25251263.1168820184211--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 15 12:03:45 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6VFJ-0006dZ-LD
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:03:45 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6VFI-0003NS-4N
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:03:45 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FGGtmg049133
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:16:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0FGGtfq049132;
	Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:16:55 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.230])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0FGGqTZ049125
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:16:53 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so1027617wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:16:50 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=hDmTJjYylOlUQYbNXFDpGp8d4RhxI6NVStOC7iWAiUIH6JYb3BNjEVtTRs1nLHbFrnK4KO3CFksK2WBUVTEP+Bg6MTlYsFVL9hKQg3TUHgiO7Ud182TxlrbsyR1hCTwbLeGZlzOzTSxrUlWEidPbzQEmlV2D+6KRjLyrkkknI4Q=
Received: by 10.90.78.1 with SMTP id a1mr3040524agb.1168877809576;
        Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:16:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.109? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id g3sm8742130wra.2007.01.15.08.16.44;
        Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:16:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45ABA8E6.8010509@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:16:38 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: David Powell <djpowell@djpowell.net>, Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>,
        Lisa Dusseault <lisa@osafoundation.org>, atom-syntax@imc.org,
        Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>, Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org>,
        Mike Linksvayer <ml@creativecommons.org>,
        Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.org>, "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>,
        John Panzer <jpanzer@aol.net>, Antone Roundy <antone@geckotribe.com>,
        Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
        James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Inheritance of license grants by entries in a feed
References: <45be5cd40612161755j997553cv8a728be443b54cbe@mail.gmail.com> <146868075.20061217223322@djpowell.net> <45be5cd40612181422r134f6d70k648f30db3cbafee2@mail.gmail.com> <1437012678.20070114200412@djpowell.net> <20070115111422.GL25085@raktajino.does-not-exist.org>
In-Reply-To: <20070115111422.GL25085@raktajino.does-not-exist.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89


In the current draft, license links *are* inherited.

Thomas Roessler wrote:
> On 2007-01-14 20:04:12 +0000, David Powell wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> Be that as it may -- the atom:rights element *is* inherited, and I'd
> expect some major confusion if a atom:license element wasn't.
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 16 05:51:13 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6luL-0006AE-3U
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:51:13 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H6luH-0004QZ-Fl
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:51:13 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GAFwwF035472
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:15:58 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0GAFwjv035471;
	Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:15:58 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from smtp41.m2.home.ne.jp (smtp41.m2.home.ne.jp [220.152.32.171])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0GAFu9Y035456
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:15:57 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from masato.terada.rd@hitachi.com)
Received: from 124-144-22-3.rev.home.ne.jp ([124.144.21.172])
          by smtp41.m2.home.ne.jp with ESMTP
          id <20070116101555.BVVG2599.smtp41.m2.home.ne.jp@124-144-22-3.rev.home.ne.jp>
          for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:15:55 +0900
Received: from hitachi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by 124-144-22-3.rev.home.ne.jp (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l0GAFlRX025284
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:15:53 +0900
Message-ID: <45AC1C96.F53B327E@hitachi.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:30:14 +0900
From: Masato Terada <masato.terada.rd@hitachi.com>
Organization: Hitachi Incident Response Team, Hitachi
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [ja] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Atom feed for Atom feed ?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352



Hi folks,

I would like to describe the Atom feed for Atom feed.
It means ... 

rssd_root.atom (1st level directory)
  + rssd_abc.atom (2nd level directory)
  |   + rssd_a.atom (Leaf Atom file)
  |   + rssd_b.atom
  + rssd_hij.atom (2nd level directory)
  |   + rssd_h.atom (Leaf Atom file)
  |   + rssd_i.atom
  + rssd_opq.atom (Leaf Atom file)
      + rssd_o.html
      + rssd_p.html

rssd_root.atom is 1st level directory. 
It refers to <link rel="next"' element (<link rel="next" 
href="rssd_{abc|hij|opq}.atom"/>) within itself as subordinate 
Atom file.

rssd_abc.atom, rssd_hij.atom are 2nd level directory. 
It refers to <link rel="next"' element (Leaf Atom file: 
<link rel="next" href="rssd_{a|b}.atom"/>, 
<link rel="next" href="rssd_{h|i}.atom"/>) within itself 
as subordinate Atom file.

A "rel" attribute indicates the link relation type. RFC 4287 
defines five initial values (alternate, related, self, enclosure, 
via) for the Registry of Link Relations. The value "next" 
in <link rel="next"/> element is tentative value in this 
description.

Example is the following.
http://jvnrss.ise.chuo-u.ac.jp/jtg/rssd/atom/index.en.html

Please send your kindly advice to me.

Cheers,
Masato





From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 09:25:31 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H7ugN-0007KH-JX
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:25:31 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H7ugL-0007yw-26
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:25:31 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDuh2A055603
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:56:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JDuh32055602;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:56:43 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JDueKY055590
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:56:42 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.135] (helo=mx2.freenet.de)
	by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.65)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1H7uER-0008U8-Vw; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:56:40 +0100
Received: from ultra17.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.160.107]:59838)
	by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.62 #12)
	id 1H7uER-00025g-Ia; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:56:39 +0100
Message-ID: <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:56:31 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061220)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
CC: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Subject: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581


While RFC 2045 specifically allows quoted parameter values and defines 
application/atom+xml;type="feed" to be equivalent to 
application/atom+xml;type=feed, RFC 4288 states that '[t]here is no 
defined syntax for parameter values. Therefore registrations MUST 
specify parameter value syntax.'

So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter's values is no longer 
allowed; draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt defines the following:

# type = "entry" / "feed"

But is this intentional? And, even if backed by RFC 4288 (I think so) 
and being intentional (I don't think so ;-), would it be worth to at 
least add a note to the parameter registration which explicitly states 
that quotes around "feed" or "entry" are disallowed?

Regards,

Andreas




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 09:39:04 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H7utU-0006H6-0G
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:39:04 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H7utO-0001w2-FO
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:39:03 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JECFh5056585
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:12:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JECFJg056584;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:12:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0JECDEB056570
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:12:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from derhoermi@gmx.net)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jan 2007 14:12:12 -0000
Received: from dslb-084-056-250-175.pools.arcor-ip.net (EHLO hive) [84.56.250.175]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp054) with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 15:12:12 +0100
X-Authenticated: #723575
From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
To: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:12:13 +0100
Message-ID: <48k1r29s5kf1gnql77vfjvqch0rh5ebja8@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de>
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org> <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
In-Reply-To: <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0JECFh5056585
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228


* Andreas Sewe wrote:
>While RFC 2045 specifically allows quoted parameter values and defines=20
>application/atom+xml;type=3D"feed" to be equivalent to=20
>application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed, RFC 4288 states that '[t]here is no=20
>defined syntax for parameter values. Therefore registrations MUST=20
>specify parameter value syntax.'
>
>So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter's values is no longer=20
>allowed; draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt defines the following:
>
># type =3D "entry" / "feed"
>
>But is this intentional? And, even if backed by RFC 4288 (I think so)=20
>and being intentional (I don't think so ;-), would it be worth to at=20
>least add a note to the parameter registration which explicitly states=20
>that quotes around "feed" or "entry" are disallowed?

You would apply the grammar above on the parameter value. In type=3D"feed=
"
the parameter value is 'feed' which matches the grammar. Compare this to
XML attributes, if the attribute value must match /^[0-9]+$/ then you
also wouldn't conclude that the attribute value must not be "quoted".
--=20
Bj=F6rn H=F6hrmann =B7 mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de =B7 http://bjoern.hoehr=
mann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 =B7 Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 =B7 http://www.bjoernsworld=
.de
68309 Mannheim =B7 PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 =B7 http://www.websitedev.d=
e/=20




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 16:42:33 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H81VJ-0002or-3S
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:42:33 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H81VH-0001If-MU
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:42:33 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JLLBfE086616
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:21:11 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JLLBuh086615;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:21:11 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.235])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JLL9bv086594
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:21:10 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bobwyman@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so514334wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:21:07 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth;
        b=tWiA9aoVcBOPb1juPPyawx4Zk1Kuy9kXDWEJNvGmMsEP1SQo4+hhs5dX8XgBARboq5A78X/YQ3wkqUegp45hw/UrpvLa6dEK64HzDVvhxvMzXbZak34CEgQNtJvstM5Z7bDB6SX7uydZHMxj0aQNYcGAMZ/1R4UuQHE/YA7FoNM=
Received: by 10.90.52.2 with SMTP id z2mr3445996agz.1169241667228;
        Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:21:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.84.16 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:21:07 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45be5cd40701191321k1238329dh5acda14b49403d1d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:21:07 -0500
From: "Bob Wyman" <bob@wyman.us>
To: "Andreas Sewe" <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
Cc: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        "Atom Publishing Protocol" <atom-protocol@imc.org>,
        "James M Snell" <jasnell@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_43637_12663210.1169241667198"
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
	 <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 11511d65c3151d94
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a


------=_Part_43637_12663210.1169241667198
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/19/07, Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
> So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter's values is no
> longer allowed;
Are the quotes part of the parameter value? Or, are quotes merely delimiters
of the value? If RFC045 is read to indicate that the quotes are delimiters,
then it would not be in conflict with RFC4288 since in both cases, "feed"
would be interpretted as being the value 'feed'...

bob wyman

------=_Part_43637_12663210.1169241667198
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/19/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Andreas Sewe</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de">sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter&#39;s values is no
<br>&gt; longer allowed;<br>Are the quotes part of the parameter value? Or, are quotes merely delimiters of the value? If RFC045 is read to indicate that the quotes are delimiters, then it would not be in conflict with RFC4288 since in both cases, &quot;feed&quot; would be interpretted as being the value &#39;feed&#39;... 
<br><br>bob wyman<br><br>

------=_Part_43637_12663210.1169241667198--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 16:55:17 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H81hd-0000gc-SZ
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:55:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H81ha-0005B5-OL
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:55:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JLZEYF087466
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:35:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JLZELp087465;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:35:14 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.232])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JLZBYu087449
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:35:13 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so534312wxd
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:35:11 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=fgfg8gxEUIW+A0vvObzJW0SVXy58PpMKKBb7kpyULyxtPplZKOFx9b/+F1SGkCr9bvB5dcUYv7srZEDB6S/tn9UdoBLi5RvKaIY7GkTLVQV6mdm9T8iitnqgODKRKAO3R9Y4aO3St9/K9oNIo3D5TBKbRDPQzVvYdsn9DNDZjWY=
Received: by 10.90.88.13 with SMTP id l13mr3563061agb.1169242510832;
        Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:35:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.101? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 45sm4351684wri.2007.01.19.13.35.03;
        Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:35:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45B13985.9040802@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:35:01 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
CC: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
        Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>	 <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <45be5cd40701191321k1238329dh5acda14b49403d1d@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45be5cd40701191321k1238329dh5acda14b49403d1d@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


+1. The way I read it the quotes do not matter.

- James

Bob Wyman wrote:
> On 1/19/07, *Andreas Sewe* <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de
> <mailto:sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>> wrote:
>> So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter's values is no
>> longer allowed;
> Are the quotes part of the parameter value? Or, are quotes merely
> delimiters of the value? If RFC045 is read to indicate that the quotes
> are delimiters, then it would not be in conflict with RFC4288 since in
> both cases, "feed" would be interpretted as being the value 'feed'...
> 
> bob wyman
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jan 19 17:28:57 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H82ED-0000oC-5E
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:28:57 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H82EB-0006E4-G6
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:28:57 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JM5oi5089138
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:05:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0JM5odB089137;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:05:50 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0JM5nBY089130
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:05:49 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from lisa@osafoundation.org)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30287142271
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:05:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1])
	by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 10124-04 for <atom-syntax@imc.org>;
	Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-69-181-78-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.78.47])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81161142270
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
To: Atom <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Message-Id: <EEB1C2EB-8205-49A7-A1D7-79B30969B103@osafoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--188899666
References: <E1H80xF-0005vK-U3@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
From: Lisa Dusseault <lisa@osafoundation.org>
Subject: Fwd: Last Call: draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history (Feed Paging  and Archiving) to Proposed Standard 
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:05:44 -0800
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 0cff8c3ec906d056784362c06f5f88c1



--Apple-Mail-6--188899666
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed

FYI
--Lisa

Begin forwarded message:

> From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
> Date: January 19, 2007 1:07:21 PM PST
> To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
> Subject: Last Call: draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history (Feed  
> Paging  and Archiving) to Proposed Standard
> Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
>
> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to  
> consider
> the following document:
>
> - 'Feed Paging and Archiving '
>    <draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-08.txt> as a Proposed  
> Standard
>
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action.  In particular, the IESG would like  
> to know
> of planned implementations and considerations of appropriateness for
> Standards Track.
>
> Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2007-02-16. Exceptionally,
> comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please
> retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
> The file can be obtained via
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-atompub-feed- 
> history-08.txt
>
>
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi? 
> command=view_id&dTag=13260&rfc_flag=0
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce


--Apple-Mail-6--188899666
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; =
">FYI<DIV>--Lisa<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded message:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>From: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
Helvetica">The IESG &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org">iesg-secretary@ietf.org</A>&gt;</F=
ONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Date: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">January 19, 2007 1:07:21 PM =
PST</FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">IETF-Announce &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:ietf-announce@ietf.org">ietf-announce@ietf.org</A>&gt;</FON=
T></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Subject: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><B>Last Call: =
draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history (Feed Paging<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>and Archiving) to Proposed =
Standard<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Reply-To: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org">ietf@ietf.org</A></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The =
IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to =
consider</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the following =
document:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">- 'Feed Paging and Archiving '</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>&lt;draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-08.txt&gt; as a =
Proposed Standard</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few =
weeks, and solicits</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">final comments on this =
action.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>In particular, =
the IESG would like to know</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of planned =
implementations and considerations of appropriateness for</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Standards Track.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please send substantive comments =
to the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org">ietf@ietf.org</A> mailing lists by =
2007-02-16. Exceptionally,<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">comments =
may be sent to <A href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org">iesg@ietf.org</A> =
instead. In either case, please<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">retain =
the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The file =
can be obtained via</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-=
history-08.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-atomp=
ub-feed-history-08.txt</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">IESG discussion can be tracked via</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_=
id&dTag=3D13260&rfc_flag=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtrack=
er.cgi?command=3Dview_id&amp;dTag=3D13260&amp;rfc_flag=3D0</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">IETF-Announce mailing list</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:IETF-Announce@ietf.org">IETF-Announce@ietf.org</A></DIV><DI=
V style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce">https://www1=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce</A></DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

--Apple-Mail-6--188899666--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 21 08:22:54 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H8cer-0003sQ-Lm
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:22:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H8cQh-000540-7T
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:08:17 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LCSbUB019355
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:28:38 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0LCSbIJ019353;
	Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:28:37 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mout2.freenet.de (mout2.freenet.de [194.97.50.155])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LCSXH1019319
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:28:35 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)
Received: from [194.97.50.151] (helo=mx10.freenet.de)
	by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.65)
	(envelope-from <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>)
	id 1H8boF-0003f2-Hc; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:28:31 +0100
Received: from client10.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.161.10]:36964)
	by mx10.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID sewe2004@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (port 25) (Exim 4.62 #12)
	id 1H8boF-0008DY-FQ; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:28:31 +0100
Message-ID: <45B35C6A.6020207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:28:26 +0100
From: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Organization: Fachbereich Informatik, TU Darmstadt
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061220)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
CC: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>, Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>	 <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <45be5cd40701191321k1238329dh5acda14b49403d1d@mail.gmail.com> <45B13985.9040802@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <45B13985.9040802@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22


James M Snell wrote:
> Bob Wyman wrote:
>> Andreas Sewe wrote:
>>> So, it looks like that quoting the type parameter's values is no 
>>> longer allowed;
>> 
>> Are the quotes part of the parameter value? Or, are quotes merely 
>> delimiters of the value? If RFC045 is read to indicate that the
>> quotes are delimiters, then it would not be in conflict with
>> RFC4288 since in both cases, "feed" would be interpretted as being
>> the value 'feed'...
>
> +1. The way I read it the quotes do not matter.

OK, you have convinced me; I simply misinterpreted RFC 4288.

This raises the question, however, whether it would be worth pointing 
out in the I-D that quoting a parameter value is allowed. Implementors 
might otherwise produce code that does treat 
application/atom+xml;type="feed" and application/atom+xml;type=feed as 
different.

James, can you add a note to this effect to your I-D? It doesn't do any 
harm and might to be useful (at least to people like me ;-).

Andreas




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jan 21 08:23:18 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H8cfG-00047W-3W
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:23:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H8cfA-0007vw-J4
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:23:18 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0LCsLE3021458
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:54:21 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0LCsLXl021456;
	Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:54:21 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0LCsI59021445
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:54:20 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from derhoermi@gmx.net)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 21 Jan 2007 12:54:17 -0000
Received: from dslb-084-056-224-112.pools.arcor-ip.net (EHLO hive) [84.56.224.112]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 21 Jan 2007 13:54:17 +0100
X-Authenticated: #723575
From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
To: Andreas Sewe <sewe@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Cc: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>,
        Atom Publishing Protocol <atom-protocol@imc.org>
Subject: Re: Quoting type parameter value allowed? - Was: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-typeparam-00.txt
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:54:20 +0100
Message-ID: <jao6r2h6uernchgm1vrpnd0tbjtfi14t3r@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de>
References: <E1H1qaA-0002nD-8k@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>	 <45B0CE0F.3000103@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> <45be5cd40701191321k1238329dh5acda14b49403d1d@mail.gmail.com> <45B13985.9040802@gmail.com> <45B35C6A.6020207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
In-Reply-To: <45B35C6A.6020207@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0LCsLE3021458
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a


* Andreas Sewe wrote:
>This raises the question, however, whether it would be worth pointing=20
>out in the I-D that quoting a parameter value is allowed. Implementors=20
>might otherwise produce code that does treat=20
>application/atom+xml;type=3D"feed" and application/atom+xml;type=3Dfeed =
as=20
>different.
>
>James, can you add a note to this effect to your I-D? It doesn't do any=20
>harm and might to be useful (at least to people like me ;-).

It actually does harm. First, unless carefully phrased that might be
misread to suggest application/atom+xml;type=3D"'feed'" or similar is
allowed, and it would suggest a false sense of completeness. As an
example, RFC 2616 would also allow you to use type=3D"f\eed" or use of
MIME word encoding in the quoted string ala type=3D"=3D?...?=3D". It seem=
s
this is better left to a test suite.
--=20
Bj=F6rn H=F6hrmann =B7 mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de =B7 http://bjoern.hoehr=
mann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 =B7 Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 =B7 http://www.bjoernsworld=
.de
68309 Mannheim =B7 PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 =B7 http://www.websitedev.d=
e/=20




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 16:10:20 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96Qm-00089b-ST
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:10:20 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96Qj-0006OE-DO
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:10:20 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKiNsg050585
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:44:23 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKiNjc050584;
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:44:23 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com (mailgw2a.lmco.com [192.91.147.7])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKiMf8050574
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:44:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from matthew.r.becker@lmco.com)
Received: from emss01g01.ems.lmco.com (relay1.ems.lmco.com [129.197.181.54])by mailgw2a.lmco.com  (LM-6) with ESMTP id l0MKiGSC025595for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:44:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.3-x3 #31239)
 id <0JCA00501EVCQ6@lmco.com> for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com ([166.17.13.135]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.3-x3 #31239)
 with ESMTP id <0JCA003S5EWKNV@lmco.com> for atom-syntax@imc.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:43:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from emss04m05.us.lmco.com ([166.17.13.61]) by EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon,
 22 Jan 2007 15:43:38 -0500
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:43:37 -0500
From: "Becker, Matthew R" <matthew.r.becker@lmco.com>
Subject: Best practice for linking to child feeds
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Message-id: <249DC7180F301445BCA2E01EAAFDF40901393C07@emss04m05.us.lmco.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_YlqplEbIIMiWp/NqrGIO4w)"
Thread-Topic: Best practice for linking to child feeds
Thread-Index: Acc+Zfy+7e6HGyCeQGOitPXP8YIOZA==
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2007 20:43:38.0200 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE467D80:01C73E65]
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_YlqplEbIIMiWp/NqrGIO4w)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Given a feed of discussion board topics, how do you show that an Atom
entry representing a topic has a related child feed representing the
posts for that topic? I was looking at the rel attribute of the link
element and I do not see a valid value of child.  I thought I saw this
in an older draft. What is the recommended way to handle a hierarchy of
related feeds?

Thanks,

Matt.


--Boundary_(ID_YlqplEbIIMiWp/NqrGIO4w)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:navy;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:windowtext;}
@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:.5in .5in .5in .5in;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=navy>

<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Given a feed of discussion board topics, how do you show
that an Atom entry representing a topic has a related child feed representing
the posts for that topic? I was looking at the rel attribute of the link
element and I do not see a valid value of child. &nbsp;I thought I saw this in
an older draft. What is the recommended way to handle a hierarchy of related
feeds?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Matt.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--Boundary_(ID_YlqplEbIIMiWp/NqrGIO4w)--




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 16:24:34 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96eY-0003kf-8q
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:24:34 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96eV-0002V3-Pn
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:24:34 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKvkII051611
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:57:47 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKvkaV051610;
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:57:46 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKvjma051597
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:57:46 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sh@defuze.org)
Received: from [192.168.1.3] (host81-159-21-245.range81-159.btcentralplus.com [81.159.21.245])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0MKvgWk010155;
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:57:43 -0600
Message-ID: <45B5253F.2090602@defuze.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:57:35 +0000
From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070104)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Becker, Matthew R" <matthew.r.becker@lmco.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Best practice for linking to child feeds
References: <249DC7180F301445BCA2E01EAAFDF40901393C07@emss04m05.us.lmco.com>
In-Reply-To: <249DC7180F301445BCA2E01EAAFDF40901393C07@emss04m05.us.lmco.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906


Becker, Matthew R wrote:
> Given a feed of discussion board topics, how do you show that an Atom
> entry representing a topic has a related child feed representing the
> posts for that topic? I was looking at the rel attribute of the link
> element and I do not see a valid value of child.  I thought I saw this
> in an older draft. What is the recommended way to handle a hierarchy of
> related feeds?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt.
> 
> 

Maybe RFC 4685?
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4685.txt

Alternatively I wonder if the Feed History spec. could suit you better:
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/atompub/draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-08.txt

- Sylvain




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jan 22 16:32:58 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96mg-0006Oi-I4
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:32:58 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H96mf-0004rF-45
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:32:58 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ML7HZk052662
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:07:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0ML7HZ6052661;
	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:07:17 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.230])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0ML7GKv052655
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:07:16 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com)
Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i20so824054wra
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:07:15 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=NzKN8yrW6hgOhBLo1PPOZRSVaDxlPFUQ/7PIAR7pqTaj2UKQ7SwPLWI2TJ804hpb3gfm24DtHGN0LrCWmRAkZqrSxP0QB305A/y0RK0C4oeSeA3FPw8YXAMjSawZ4j6ewUs3Ii9UOJE4ExVjhR0sjUlCEfBnfs1qz3LcaJjgdBI=
Received: by 10.90.93.6 with SMTP id q6mr6965548agb.1169500035657;
        Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:07:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?192.168.1.101? ( [67.181.218.96])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 3sm10471410wrh.2007.01.22.13.07.14;
        Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:07:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <45B52780.3070803@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:07:12 -0800
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Becker, Matthew R" <matthew.r.becker@lmco.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Best practice for linking to child feeds
References: <249DC7180F301445BCA2E01EAAFDF40901393C07@emss04m05.us.lmco.com>
In-Reply-To: <249DC7180F301445BCA2E01EAAFDF40901393C07@emss04m05.us.lmco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


RFC 4685 - http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4685.txt

- James

Becker, Matthew R wrote:
> Given a feed of discussion board topics, how do you show that an Atom
> entry representing a topic has a related child feed representing the
> posts for that topic? I was looking at the rel attribute of the link
> element and I do not see a valid value of child.  I thought I saw this
> in an older draft. What is the recommended way to handle a hierarchy of
> related feeds?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt.
> 




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 23 12:27:35 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9PQl-0006JT-CH
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:27:35 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9PQg-0000Jt-W6
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:27:35 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0NGj07d033082
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:45:00 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0NGj0iv033081;
	Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:45:00 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0NGiwjD033074
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:44:59 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sh@defuze.org)
Received: from [192.168.1.3] (host81-159-21-245.range81-159.btcentralplus.com [81.159.21.245])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0NGijZV017351
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:44:56 -0600
Message-ID: <45B63B75.1040908@defuze.org>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:44:37 +0000
From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070104)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Broken link
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009


It seems that:
http://atompub.org/rfc4287.html

doesn't work anymore. Anyone feeling like fixing it?

- Sylvain




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 23 15:44:11 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9SV1-000355-6j
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:44:11 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9SUz-00059a-RP
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:44:11 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0NKKPEs048705
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:20:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0NKKPwJ048704;
	Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:20:25 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0NKKNDU048698
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:20:24 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sayrer@gmail.com)
Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n29so331613nfc
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:20:22 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
        b=I+KO0dfyaHBm9CwC3q7c8pNci3njJkcT5n7bXRaoWqMRcxF8iYBaGm97fdQRAFuTjQggLXbYFsScpFkx/D2DVLiJ9tBfvYX8R7os9aIE1T39GgaZQDR6pPgOaNN/4RHivJgUD+0D2RBQYC1VVumY0hFkdpNmUaqP5b6CIBoTAU8=
Received: by 10.82.135.13 with SMTP id i13mr1836089bud.1169583622310;
        Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.82.169.9 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:20:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <68fba5c50701231220k2bc3c058j2db0de198bd71c85@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:20:21 -0500
From: "Robert Sayre" <sayrer@gmail.com>
To: "Atom Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: I support moving draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-08.txt to Proposed Standard [eom] -- Robert Sayre
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31






From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 24 06:56:51 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9gkF-0008KO-Qn
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:56:51 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9gkA-0002vc-DG
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:56:51 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OBXM8m007340
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:33:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OBXMuG007338;
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:33:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from codanova.cust.azuria.net.azuria-servers.net (codanova.cust.azuria.net [62.233.33.41])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OBXLBf007332
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:33:22 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from lionel@over-blog.com)
Received: from laf31-2-82-224-249-154.fbx.proxad.net ([82.224.249.154]:4050 helo=[127.0.0.1])
	by codanova.cust.azuria.net.azuria-servers.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.44)
	id 1H9gNV-0000G3-2I
	for atom-syntax@imc.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:33:21 +0100
Message-ID: <45B74402.6000703@over-blog.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:33:22 +0100
From: "Lionel [Over-Blog]" <lionel@over-blog.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Introduction
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581


Hello,

I am new to this list, this is a short introduction about me and why I 
am interested in Atom.

I am working for a French company editing the most visited blogs 
platform (6M pages/day, 600K blogs).
We are implementing Atom Publishing Protocol to give our users the 
ability to blog from outside our website (MS Office 2007, YouTube, 
Firefox extensions, etc...), and I am responsible for implementing this.

Now that you know -nearly- everything about me, this is my first question :
Is draft 12 of the APP expected to be the latest one before RFC 
acceptation ?

-- 
Lionel Tressens
JFG Networks
http://www.overblog.com/




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 24 07:12:16 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9gzA-0002L5-N9
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:12:16 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9gz8-0001O9-8s
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:12:16 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OBq5md008617
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:52:06 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OBq5Ki008616;
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:52:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OBq4eT008604
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO)
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:52:05 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from sh@defuze.org)
Received: from [192.168.136.95] ([194.221.10.95])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l0OBpxq8017994;
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:52:02 -0600
Message-ID: <45B74859.7030106@defuze.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:51:53 +0000
From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070104)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Lionel [Over-Blog]" <lionel@over-blog.com>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Introduction
References: <45B74402.6000703@over-blog.com>
In-Reply-To: <45B74402.6000703@over-blog.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228


Lionel [Over-Blog] wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am new to this list, this is a short introduction about me and why I
> am interested in Atom.
> 
> I am working for a French company editing the most visited blogs
> platform (6M pages/day, 600K blogs).
> We are implementing Atom Publishing Protocol to give our users the
> ability to blog from outside our website (MS Office 2007, YouTube,
> Firefox extensions, etc...), and I am responsible for implementing this.
> 
> Now that you know -nearly- everything about me, this is my first question :
> Is draft 12 of the APP expected to be the latest one before RFC
> acceptation ?
> 

Hi Lionel,

Welcome. However you should subscribe at atom-protocol@imc.org instead
since it is the right ML for APP.

Regarding draft 12, it should be fairly close to be what the RFC will
look like (if it gets accepted).

BTW, which language will you be using for your implementation?

- Sylvain




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jan 24 08:01:14 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9hkY-0003GG-4S
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:01:14 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1H9hkW-00072T-OK
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:01:14 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OCWdSt010960
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:32:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OCWdJq010959;
	Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:32:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from codanova.cust.azuria.net.azuria-servers.net (codanova.cust.azuria.net [62.233.33.41])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OCWcOw010953
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:32:39 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from lionel@over-blog.com)
Received: from laf31-2-82-224-249-154.fbx.proxad.net ([82.224.249.154]:4165 helo=[127.0.0.1])
	by codanova.cust.azuria.net.azuria-servers.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.44)
	id 1H9hIr-0001tO-21; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:32:37 +0100
Message-ID: <45B751E6.2020906@over-blog.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:32:38 +0100
From: "Lionel [Over-Blog]" <lionel@over-blog.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh@defuze.org>
CC: atom-syntax@imc.org
Subject: Re: Introduction
References: <45B74402.6000703@over-blog.com> <45B74859.7030106@defuze.org>
In-Reply-To: <45B74859.7030106@defuze.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370


Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote :
 > Welcome. However you should subscribe at atom-protocol@imc.org instead
 > since it is the right ML for APP.

Thanks for the pointer, and sorry for this mistake.
I will read this mailing list however !

 > BTW, which language will you be using for your implementation?

PHP5.

-- 
Lionel Tressens
JFG Networks
http://www.overblog.com/




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 30 08:19:43 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBstj-0002Zn-IH
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:19:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBste-0000ke-5p
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:19:43 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UCwmTp072118
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:58:48 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0UCwmve072117;
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:58:48 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UCwldo072111
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:58:48 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from bill@dehora.net)
Received: from [192.168.213.125] (unknown [193.120.101.26])
	by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12CEDCC53
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:58:46 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <45BF4104.7000101@dehora.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:58:44 +0000
From: Bill de hOra <bill@dehora.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: self and alternate links for entries
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32


Hi,

I'm building a tool (for Plone) at the moment that will publish any 
content as an Atom Entry by appending '/entry.xml' onto the URL. I had a 
question about declaring self and alternate links. Here are two options:

1:

@rel=self,@type=application/xml+atom links to the Entry

@rel=alternate, @hreflang, @type, links to the Content

2:

@rel=self @hreflang, @type, links to the Content

@rel=alternate, @type=application/xml+atom links to the Entry

I couldn't find enough information in the RFC about which way to go. 
Which would you choose, and why?

cheers
Bill




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 30 09:09:20 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBtfk-00088i-LV
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:09:20 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBtcO-0001ns-Gi
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:05:53 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UDg7oe075494
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:42:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0UDg7jK075493;
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:42:07 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UDg5ot075484
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:42:06 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com)
Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n29so167464nfc
        for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:42:04 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=DBPmZbiYsqFNhfkmwIS+1tYfcp18c4/3Ejf27HDHnP+43FW1YRnCApB2PdxomwDOrk2xMCYa1hMs9EG1ZSBUVY1ECtDoMTZ0l8RYBcHQDGs82BjDjZyBOasSQGICFVm7ThOZbI+qbSpn0M/uXfx6Z8cnpT/U0iBuMvirzISt5iU=
Received: by 10.48.14.4 with SMTP id 4mr775366nfn.1170164524381;
        Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:42:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.49.29.19 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:42:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a9699fd20701300542j13f4afb3l9ab71e273bdc95a@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:42:04 +0100
From: "Thomas Broyer" <t.broyer@gmail.com>
To: Atom-Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: self and alternate links for entries
In-Reply-To: <45BF4104.7000101@dehora.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <45BF4104.7000101@dehora.net>
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l0UDg6ot075488
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0UDg7oe075494
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b


2007/1/30, Bill de hOra:
>
> I'm building a tool (for Plone) at the moment that will publish any
> content as an Atom Entry by appending '/entry.xml' onto the URL. I had =
a
> question about declaring self and alternate links. Here are two options=
:
>
> 1:
>
> @rel=3Dself,@type=3Dapplication/xml+atom links to the Entry
>
> @rel=3Dalternate, @hreflang, @type, links to the Content
>
> 2:
>
> @rel=3Dself @hreflang, @type, links to the Content
>
> @rel=3Dalternate, @type=3Dapplication/xml+atom links to the Entry
>
> I couldn't find enough information in the RFC about which way to go.
> Which would you choose, and why?

#1, because:

a. I understand "self" as "myself"

b. rel=3D"self" was initially added =E2=80=93even though that does not ap=
pear in
the spec=E2=80=93 so that feed readers do not have to know the IRI where =
the
feed was downloaded, they can just read a byte-stream and the
feed-level <link rel=3D"self" .../> will tell them that IRI. For
entry-level such links, I would expect the same: where could I
download this "file" when nobody gave me its IRI?

--=20
Thomas Broyer




From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jan 30 12:28:29 2007
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org)
	by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBwmT-0004rA-B0
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:28:29 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227])
	by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1HBwmK-0000bS-Uc
	for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:28:29 -0500
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0UGxGjK094188
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:16 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0UGxGNd094187;
	Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:16 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0UGxFx9094181
	for <atom-syntax@imc.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:15 -0700 (MST)
	(envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Jan 2007 16:59:14 -0000
Received: from xdsl-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp044) with SMTP; 30 Jan 2007 17:59:14 +0100
X-Authenticated: #163624
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:59:08 +0100
From: "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@gmx.de>
To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
Subject: Re: self and alternate links for entries
Message-ID: <20070130165908.GR2896@klangraum>
Mail-Followup-To: Atom Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
References: <45BF4104.7000101@dehora.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <45BF4104.7000101@dehora.net>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
Organization: haphazard
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atom-syntax-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>
List-ID: <atom-syntax.imc.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l0UGxGjK094188
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f


* Bill de hOra <bill@dehora.net> [2007-01-30 14:20]:
> I couldn't find enough information in the RFC about which way
> to go. Which would you choose, and why?

The =E2=80=9Cself=E2=80=9D relation means =E2=80=9Cthis same Atom Documen=
t you=E2=80=99re just
looking at.=E2=80=9D The =E2=80=9Calternate=E2=80=9D relation means =E2=80=
=9Canother
representation of the same resource that this Atom Document
represents.=E2=80=9D

Which option is correct should be pretty clear from that.

Regards,
--=20
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>