From yuri50@so-net.ne.jp Mon Jul 02 04:56:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5HhY-0005G8-Fg for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:56:08 -0400 Received: from [219.147.214.106] (helo=ocn.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5HhX-00079i-JY for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:56:08 -0400 Received: from pkd5 (unknown [75.172.53.110]) by smtp23 (Coremail) with SMTP id zTeEQeLB3UVF6oII.1 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:43:55 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [75.172.53.110] Subject: sex From: =?shift-jis?B?aW5mb3JtYXRpb24=?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8BC4A.88B42BD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8BC4A.88B42BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ICANChskQiQ3JF4kNyRnJCYhKhsoQg0KGyRCPychOSQzJDMkRzhAJCYkaCRqISJEPkBcTyJNbTxo JEMkP0p9JCwkJCQkJDcidhsoQg0KGyRCJDMkMyRLGyhCaHR0cDovL3NleGZyaWVuZC1jbHViLm5l dC9wdXJlLz9xZHEzMCAbJEJPIk1tMjwkNSQkISMbKEINCklEGyRCISEbKEIzOTg1Mjk2DQobJEI8 TD8/ISJEPiUiJUk6XCQ7JEYkXiQ5ISMbKEINChskQiVSJSslayEmGyhCMjQbJEI6UCEmSGA7YSRi JTslVSVsJGI4PTpfJEokNyFKTl4bKEINCg== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8BC4A.88B42BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGUgY29udGVu dD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWlzby0yMDIyLWpwIj4NCjxNRVRBIGNvbnRlbnQ9Ik1TSFRN TCA2LjAwLjI5MDAuMjE4MCIgbmFtZT1HRU5FUkFUT1I+DQo8U1RZTEU+PC9TVFlMRT4NCjwvSEVB RD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnQ29sb3I9I2ZmZmZmZj4mbmJzcDsgDQo8RElWPjxGT05UIGZhY2U9Ik1TIFVJ IEdvdGhpYyIgc2l6ZT0yPjxTVFJPTkc+GyRCJDckXiQ3JGckJiEqGyhCPC9TVFJPTkc+PC9GT05U PjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPSJNUyBVSSBHb3RoaWMiIA0Kc2l6ZT0yPjxTVFJPTkc+ GyRCPychOSQzJDMkRzhAJCYkaCRqISJEPkBcTyJNbTxoJEMkP0p9JCwkJCQkJDcidhsoQjwvU1RS T05HPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT0iTVMgVUkgR290aGljIiBzaXplPTI+ PFNUUk9ORz4bJEIkMyQzJEsbKEI8QSANCmhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9zZXhmcmllbmQtY2x1Yi5uZXQv cHVyZS8/cWRxMzAiPmh0dHA6Ly9zZXhmcmllbmQtY2x1Yi5uZXQvcHVyZS8/cWRxMzA8L0E+Jm5i c3A7GyRCTyJNbTI8JDUkJCEjGyhCPC9TVFJPTkc+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBm YWNlPSJNUyBVSSBHb3RoaWMiIHNpemU9Mj48U1RST05HPklEGyRCISEbKEIzOTg1Mjk2PC9TVFJP Tkc+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPSJNUyBVSSBHb3RoaWMiIHNpemU9Mj48 U1RST05HPhskQjxMPz8hIkQ+JSIlSTpcJDskRiReJDkhIxsoQjwvU1RST05HPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJ Vj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT0iTVMgVUkgR290aGljIiANCnNpemU9Mj48U1RST05HPhskQiVS JSslayEmGyhCMjQbJEI6UCEmSGA7YSRiJTslVSVsJGI4PTpfJEokNyFKTl4bKEI8L1NUUk9ORz48 L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIGZhY2U9Ik1TIFVJIEdvdGhpYyIgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9O VD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8BC4A.88B42BD0-- From sdfwewe23@yahoo.ca Mon Jul 02 10:49:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5NDr-00022u-MZ for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:49:51 -0400 Received: from [124.234.76.21] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5NDq-0003CC-PF for ATOMPUB-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:49:51 -0400 Received: from ajq1 (unknown [113.157.55.39]) by smtp81 (Coremail) with SMTP id smvN4z1FHQbYtDuB.1 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:49:27 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [113.157.55.39] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJWklQyUtITwheSF5GyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?eXVtaQ==?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7B41E.1BB1BC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7B41E.1BB1BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit このメールが届いたぁなたラッキーだよぉ(*^^)v 試してみればわかるよぉ♪♪ http://pure-love.biz/yu/?kr102 配信不要だよ☆ hosono145yuko@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7B41E.1BB1BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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hosono145yuko@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7B41E.1BB1BC80-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 05 14:49:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6WOV-0003UA-VY for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:49:35 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6WNZ-000101-1B for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:49:35 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l65IF3lr089228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l65IF3xg089227; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l65IF2tK089220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182CF1760A; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 18:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Vr3-0007Rd-KL; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : The Atom Publishing Protocol Author(s) : B. de Hora, J. Gregorio Filename : draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt Pages : 67 Date : 2007-7-5 The Atom Publishing Protocol (APP) is an application-level protocol for publishing and editing Web resources. The protocol is based on HTTP transfer of Atom-formatted representations. The Atom format is documented in the Atom Syndication Format. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-5132451.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-16.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-5132451.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 10 14:48:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Kld-0005qv-TX for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:48:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Kld-0007cg-Kc for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:48:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6AITMh5093105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:29:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6AITM9b093103; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:29:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.108] (adsl-66-125-125-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [66.125.125.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6AITIWR093085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:29:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:28:40 -0700 To: Atom WG From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Atom feeds of Internet Drafts progress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 So, the IETF does sometime eat its own dogfood. If you look at the detail page for any Internet Draft off of the IETF's Internet Drafts tracker , you will see autodiscovery of an Atom feed. Subscribing to this gives you a summary of the stuff that goes into the tracker. For example, if you want to watch the last few steps of APP, look at , or just subscribe directly to . It will be interesting to see which feed readers don't support 'https:'... Comments on the feed should go to webtools@ietf.org. Props to the Django folks for making this possible. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed Jul 11 15:35:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8hyC-0002Uq-BD for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:35:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8hy7-0005FF-Qz for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:35:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6BJF4sp026240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6BJF4Rm026239; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6BJF3mM026232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA0A26EB2; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I8heQ-0006oy-5N; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: atom-syntax@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : The Atom Publishing Protocol Author(s) : B. de Hora, J. Gregorio Filename : draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt Pages : 67 Date : 2007-7-11 The Atom Publishing Protocol (APP) is an application-level protocol for publishing and editing Web resources. The protocol is based on HTTP transfer of Atom-formatted representations. The Atom format is documented in the Atom Syndication Format. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-11142821.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-11142821.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 12 10:18:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8zVR-0005OS-Q4 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:18:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8zVN-0003ov-Bj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:18:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CDwtCA031692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:58:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6CDwtOD031691; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:58:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CDwrEw031680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:58:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from [192.168.1.70] (host81-149-60-121.in-addr.btopenworld.com [81.149.60.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l6CDwp3x021521; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:58:52 -0500 Message-ID: <46963399.6070308@defuze.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:58:49 +0100 From: Sylvain Hellegouarch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org, Atom-Protocol Subject: Atom, AtomPub and ATE as a schematron schema Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Today I toyed around a schematron [1] schema (ISO) to validate Atom and AtomPub documents. You may find it here if you're interested: http://trac.defuze.org/browser/oss/amplee/amplee/contrib/atom.sch You can just grab the file, you don't need amplee. You will need a utility that can handle that schema format though (I'm using oXygen [2] myself but a simple cmmand line tool like those provided by Amara [3] should do). Of course if you find new interesting rules or better way to express them, let me know and I'll fix it. It's my first attempt at schematron so it might be a bit rough around the edges. - Sylvain [1] http://www.schematron.com/ [2] http://www.oxygenxml.com/ [3] http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/4suite/etc/amara-manual.html#scimitar From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 12 10:41:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8zrU-0000Mv-Lj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:41:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8zrQ-0004Yq-7x for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:41:44 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CEMLSX033677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:22:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6CEMLoX033676; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:22:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mwest.oreilly.com (mwest.oreilly.com [209.204.146.24]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CEMJKZ033663; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from keith@oreilly.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B021B84582; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Received: from mwest.oreilly.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hugo.west.ora.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uv0KBN6gt6vi; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacKeith.local (unknown [172.24.41.12]) by mwest.oreilly.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8041B8457E; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46963919.9020507@oreilly.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:22:17 -0700 From: Keith Fahlgren User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Macintosh/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sylvain Hellegouarch CC: atom-syntax@imc.org, Atom-Protocol Subject: Re: Atom, AtomPub and ATE as a schematron schema References: <46963399.6070308@defuze.org> In-Reply-To: <46963399.6070308@defuze.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 On 7/12/07 6:58 AM, Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote: > > Today I toyed around a schematron [1] schema (ISO) to validate Atom and > AtomPub documents. You may find it here if you're interested: > > http://trac.defuze.org/browser/oss/amplee/amplee/contrib/atom.sch Ah, great thinking Sylvain, this will help a lot! Thanks, Keith From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 12 12:36:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91eQ-0003CO-SG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:36:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91eM-0001lD-El for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:36:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CGFaUr046446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6CGFagK046445; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.224]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CGFYh8046435 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h29so182924wxd for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nNTNElPMArcbsZ66rO9F+jvw6YwEcA/d6mc5OlPJTYsf/Yv+LNoCKJpwSzAwc1qfFpQxBUufxjq/pFwXcNvPACcakGzKZFU7Tx09ba7MGHzDhHV5pBT0hzdme+jurd0QVOhMZUDmxlrYrAFwi9zP7oBOjIuHrfiFJhRuIrNZC30= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XCgb6w6tLR7Td6+XPvfob8vfe0BFexUBrtgnILnA5C8pioMf56h6TbpMPRSrgeNhMi5cAE/u2edknmTHGaiPZnEsvdKAUtMymgsikMcQeA6AVeoxS5E/Os2ArU4L5xIuD1X1Rppn/VJ1kS3gwVmWje49yA0eaLXfBdUMZchfwS0= Received: by 10.90.118.8 with SMTP id q8mr626298agc.1184256930574; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.118? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id q34sm34937577wrq.2007.07.12.09.15.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <469653A0.5020406@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:15:28 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham CC: atom-syntax Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Feed Paging and Archiving' to Proposed Standard References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Congratulations Mark. This is excellent to see! - James The IESG wrote: > The IESG has approved the following document: > > - 'Feed Paging and Archiving ' > as a Proposed Standard > >[snip] From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 12 12:36:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91PW-0007Al-9F for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:20:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91PS-0006ny-9Q for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:20:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CFurrG044155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6CFurtw044154; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [165.227.249.210] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CFupm2044146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:56:11 -0700 To: Atom WG From: The IESG Subject: Protocol Action: 'Feed Paging and Archiving' to Proposed Standard Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Feed Paging and Archiving ' as a Proposed Standard This document has been reviewed in the IETF but is not the product of an IETF Working Group. The IESG contact person is Lisa Dusseault. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-atompub-feed-history-11.txt Technical Summary This document is an important improvement on RFC4287, adding the ability to download only part of a published Atom feed at a time. Many servers already provide only part of a feed (e.g. a blog with hundreds of archived entries) when clients request the feed itself, and the information about how to get the rest of the feed is *simply not there* with existing standards (or if there, human-readable only). Working Group Summary Although this is not a WG document, it was reviewed by the members of the AtomPub WG. There was no significant dissent, and there was definitely support for implementing it. It's already implemented in Apache Abdera project. Protocol Quality Lisa Dusseault reviewed for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor Please update the RSS reference URL as follows: OLD: [RSS2] Winer, D., "RSS 2.0 Specification", 2005, . NEW: [RSS2] Winer, D., "RSS 2.0 Specification", 2005, . IANA Note The registry to be updated is http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations.html -- there's an IANA considerations section but it doesn't provide the direct registry link. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 12 12:56:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91xt-0002nj-Vd for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:56:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I91xp-0002ih-JH for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:56:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CGYxmo048357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6CGYxnL048356; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from joe.greenbytes.de (mail.greenbytes.de [217.91.35.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6CGYwi2048349 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:34:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stefan.eissing@greenbytes.de) Received: from [192.168.1.61] (unknown [192.168.1.61]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by joe.greenbytes.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542BF6506D; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:34:57 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <469653A0.5020406@gmail.com> References: <469653A0.5020406@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6468B766-D26A-4ADE-80FC-1F3A95E572E4@greenbytes.de> Cc: atom-syntax , James M Snell From: Stefan Eissing Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Feed Paging and Archiving' to Proposed Standard Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:34:54 +0200 To: Nottingham Mark X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l6CGYxi2048351 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l6CGYxmo048357 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Gratz! Time for some beer and barbie! //Stefan Am 12.07.2007 um 18:15 schrieb James M Snell: > > Congratulations Mark. This is excellent to see! > > - James > > The IESG wrote: >> The IESG has approved the following document: >> >> - 'Feed Paging and Archiving ' >> as a Proposed =20 >> Standard >> >> [snip] > -- Stefan Eissing bytes GmbH Hafenweg 16 D-48155 M=FCnster Germany Amtsgericht M=FCnster: HRB5782 From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri Jul 13 23:09:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Y0Z-000319-JG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:09:23 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Y0V-00034H-4y for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:09:23 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E2lQTf006481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6E2lQfw006480; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-04.mxes.net (mxout-04.mxes.net [216.86.168.179]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E2lO21006473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:47:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@briansmith.org) Received: from Junk (unknown [12.217.176.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00152A3205 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:47:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian Smith" To: "'Atom WG'" Subject: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use case Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:47:21 +0700 Message-ID: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5FB.FABA8760" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcfFwU0QXxj/8ulHSOGZohb2PjpvEw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5FB.FABA8760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, =20 I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, and Feed = Paging & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything that allows the = client to tell the server what entries it (the client) already has, so = that the server can send just the new and/or updated entries. I feel = like I must have overlooked something, because that seems like it would = be the most frequent use case for APP. Is there a separate effort = underway to standardize that? If so, where can I find information about = it? =20 Thanks, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5FB.FABA8760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Hello=20 all,
 
I have = read through=20 the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, and Feed Paging & = Archiving=20 documents. I didn't find anything that allows the client to tell the = server what=20 entries it (the client) already has, so that the server can send just = the new=20 and/or updated entries. I feel like I must have overlooked = something,=20 because that seems like it would be the most frequent use case for APP. = Is there=20 a separate effort underway to standardize that? If so, where can I find=20 information about it?
 
Thanks,
Brian
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7C5FB.FABA8760-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jul 14 00:39:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9ZPI-00024S-0L for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:39:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9ZPD-0005CC-Aj for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:38:59 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E4LEBv012369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6E4LETD012367; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E4LCl2012360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Steven.Lees@microsoft.com) Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.76) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.0.700.0; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:12 -0700 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.53.8]) by TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.76]) with mapi; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:12 -0700 From: Steven Lees To: Brian Smith , "'Atom WG'" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:10 -0700 Subject: RE: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use case Thread-Topic: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use case Thread-Index: AcfFwU0QXxj/8ulHSOGZohb2PjpvEwADHTDA Message-ID: <9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C421181F@NA-EXMSG-C103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> References: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> In-Reply-To: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C421181FNAEXMSGC103re_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 17bdfcaea25d1444baef0e24abc38874 --_000_9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C421181FNAEXMSGC103re_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The APP spec suggests using ETag for this scenario. Take a look at examples= 9.2.1 and 9.5.1 in the current draft. There was some discussion about this on the Atom Protocol mailing list rece= ntly: http://www.imc.org/atom-protocol/mail-archive/msg08991.html, and Joe = Gregorio wrote up a fairly thorough discussion on his blog: http://bitworki= ng.org/news/150/REST-Tip-Deep-etags-give-you-more-benefits. Steven From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Brian Smith Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:47 PM To: 'Atom WG' Subject: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use c= ase Hello all, I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, and Feed Pag= ing & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything that allows the client to= tell the server what entries it (the client) already has, so that the serv= er can send just the new and/or updated entries. I feel like I must have ov= erlooked something, because that seems like it would be the most frequent u= se case for APP. Is there a separate effort underway to standardize that? I= f so, where can I find information about it? Thanks, Brian --_000_9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C421181FNAEXMSGC103re_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The APP spec suggests using ETag for this scenario. Take a l= ook at examples 9.2.1 and 9.5.1 in the current draft.

 

There was some discussion about this on the Atom Protocol mailing list recently: http:/= /www.imc.org/atom-protocol/mail-archive/msg08991.html, and Joe Gregorio wrote up a fairly thorough discussion on his blog: http://bitworking.org/news/150/REST-Tip-Deep-etags-give-you-more-be= nefits.

 

Steven

 

From: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org] O= n Behalf Of Brian Smith
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:47 PM
To: 'Atom WG'
Subject: How to implement the "Give me all the new & update= d entries" use case

 

Hello all,

 

I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, and Feed Pagin= g & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything that allows the client to tell the server what entries it (the client) already has, so that the serve= r can send just the new and/or updated entries. I feel like I must have overlooked something, because that seems like it would be the most frequent= use case for APP. Is there a separate effort underway to standardize that? If s= o, where can I find information about it?

 

Thanks,

Brian

--_000_9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C421181FNAEXMSGC103re_-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jul 14 01:07:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Zqr-0003S9-3u for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:07:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Zqn-0005mj-J0 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:07:29 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E4ixVd013305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:44:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6E4ix7r013304; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:44:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6E4iu6h013296 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pagaltzis@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Jul 2007 04:44:56 -0000 Received: from static-87-79-236-202.netcologne.de (EHLO klangraum) [87.79.236.202] by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2007 06:44:56 +0200 X-Authenticated: #163624 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+inBc2R/mi1FR8z8nCkHkacyRj/FoH3v4nW04RcK Ri4IXmCzmx6LT0 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:44:55 +0200 From: "A. Pagaltzis" To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use case Message-ID: <20070714044455.GS12777@klangraum> Mail-Followup-To: atom-syntax@imc.org References: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l6E4ixVd013305 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Hi Brian, * Brian Smith [2007-07-14 05:05]: > I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, > and Feed Paging & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything > that allows the client to tell the server what entries it (the > client) already has, so that the server can send just the new > and/or updated entries. the collection feed is ordered by app:edited, so the first entries in it are the most recently changed ones, so they=E2=80=99ll be the ones the client hasn=E2=80=99t seen. The client can just page backwards through the collection feed until it finds an entry that it already has. Regards, --=20 Aristotle Pagaltzis // From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jul 14 01:10:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Zta-0007Ro-TR for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:10:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9ZtT-0005q1-FY for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:10:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E4sR1w013695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:54:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6E4sRnd013694; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:54:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6E4sOqQ013671 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.18] ([203.30.247.18] verified) by ironclad.net.au (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.1902769571 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:53:53 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:28:26 +1000 Subject: Re: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries" use case From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f On 14/7/07 12:47 PM, "Brian Smith" wrote: > I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, and Feed Paging > & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything that allows the client to tell > the server what entries it (the client) already has, so that the server can > send just the new and/or updated entries. I feel like I must have overlooked > something, because that seems like it would be the most frequent use case for > APP. Is there a separate effort underway to standardize that? If so, where can > I find information about it? generally, we punted on dynamic search parameters, leaving that for extensions (but we built in a framework for extensibility) specifically though: with APP, collection feeds are provided with most-recent edited entries first, so you simply request the collection feed and you'll receive the first page of most-recently edited entries. You can then compare atom:id and app:edited of those entries against what you already have. If they are all more recent that yours, request another page from the collection. Keep going back through the collection until you come across a page containing entries which you already have and which were not more recently edited. There's also an advanced technique involving etags which keeps track of when each etag was issued and if an old etag is sent with the request then everything since then is sent back in the response. Someone will chime in with the reference. You wouldn't really want to use the mechanism you suggested though, not once you've got a few thousand entries at the client (eg. sending a list of all the atom:ids with their corresponding app:edited values). The above method involves lots of round trips for the worst case (syncing the whole collection), but minimises traffic for the more common case (sync relatively recent changes). e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sat Jul 14 02:15:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9auy-0002OC-79 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 02:15:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9aut-0007DX-Ns for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 02:15:48 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E5thMJ016313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6E5thdS016312; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6E5tfFo016306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:55:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [216.145.54.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08151927; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:55:39 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <6468B766-D26A-4ADE-80FC-1F3A95E572E4@greenbytes.de> References: <469653A0.5020406@gmail.com> <6468B766-D26A-4ADE-80FC-1F3A95E572E4@greenbytes.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: atom-syntax , James M Snell X-Image-Url: http://www.mnot.net/personal/MarkNottingham.jpg From: Mark Nottingham Subject: Re: Protocol Action: 'Feed Paging and Archiving' to Proposed Standard Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:55:39 +1000 To: Stefan Eissing X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l6E5tgFn016307 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l6E5thMJ016313 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Thanks, it's been a while in the making :) On 13/07/2007, at 2:34 AM, Stefan Eissing wrote: > Gratz! Time for some beer and barbie! > > //Stefan > > Am 12.07.2007 um 18:15 schrieb James M Snell: > >> >> Congratulations Mark. This is excellent to see! >> >> - James >> >> The IESG wrote: >>> The IESG has approved the following document: >>> >>> - 'Feed Paging and Archiving ' >>> as a Proposed =20 >>> Standard >>> >>> [snip] >> > > -- > Stefan Eissing > > bytes GmbH > Hafenweg 16 > D-48155 M=FCnster > Germany > Amtsgericht M=FCnster: HRB5782 > > > > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 15 10:01:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA4fZ-0004F3-Is for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:01:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA4fV-0003zB-7F for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:01:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6FDgLnt071375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6FDgLhj071374; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from people.com.cn ([202.99.23.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6FDgKDB071368 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Internet-Drafts@ietf.org) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:20 -0700 (MST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <200707151342.l6FDgKDB071368@balder-227.proper.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun Jul 15 10:01:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA4fb-0004FN-0H for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:01:55 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA4fW-0003zD-Jn for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 10:01:54 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6FDgHAD071366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6FDgHdd071365; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from people.com.cn ([202.99.23.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6FDgFf3071358 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Internet-Drafts@ietf.org) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:42:15 -0700 (MST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <200707151342.l6FDgFf3071358@balder-227.proper.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 16 19:40:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAaBO-0003I9-LG for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:40:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAaBK-0006P9-5Y for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:40:50 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6GNN32b020312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:23:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6GNN3Ev020311; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:23:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-04.mxes.net (mxout-04.mxes.net [216.86.168.179]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6GNN2oA020305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:23:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@briansmith.org) Received: from Junk (unknown [12.217.176.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BB0A3204 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:23:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian Smith" To: "'Atom WG'" References: <000001c7c5c1$4e593e60$6501a8c0@Junk> Subject: RE: How to implement the "Give me all the new & updated entries"use case Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:22:59 +0700 Message-ID: <000501c7c800$403e04f0$6401a8c0@Junk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcfF00kvYXenfp39Saix7o85M9Z8rgCIDuVQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Eric Scheid wrote: > On 14/7/07 12:47 PM, "Brian Smith" wrote: > > > I have read through the Atom Syndication, Publishing Protocol, > > and Feed Paging & Archiving documents. I didn't find anything > > that allows the client to tell the server what entries it (the > > client) already has, so that the server can send just the new > > and/or updated entries. [snip] Is there a separate > > effort underway to standardize that? If so, where can I > > find information about it? > > generally, we punted on dynamic search parameters, leaving > that for extensions (but we built in a framework for extensibility) Is there any effort underway on these extensions? > specifically though: with APP, collection feeds are provided > with most-recent edited entries first, so you simply request > the collection feed and you'll receive the first page of > most-recently edited entries. You can then compare atom:id > and app:edited of those entries against what you already > have. If they are all more recent that yours, request another > page from the collection. Keep going back through the > collection until you come across a page containing entries > which you already have and which were not more recently edited. Since APP is for editable feeds, it seems inappropriate for feeds like mine that are read-only. As far as I can tell, the paging & archiving internet draft is independent of APP, and can be used without APP. The consequence is that the ordering of the entries within pages is undefined, and so is the relative order of the pages themselves, since there is no app:edited to sort by. (Actually, even with APP, app:edited is optional according to section 10.2). The client would have to assume that pages are ordered so that each "next" page contains earlier entries (as determined by atom:updated, not app:edited). In any case, the problem with using the paging mechanism is that client support for paging is itself totally optional--a weblog client can be Atom-compliant without supporting paging--and there is currently no way for the server to know if the client has implemented that optional feature. In particular, if the paging mechanism is the only thing that is available, then I would like my weblog feed to send one day's worth of entries per page if the client supports paging, and a month's worth of entries if the client does not support paging. Doing so would cut my feeds bandwidth usage by an order of magnitude. > You wouldn't really want to use the mechanism you suggested > though, not once you've got a few thousand entries at the > client (eg. sending a list of all the atom:ids with their > corresponding app:edited values). The above method involves > lots of round trips for the worst case (syncing the whole > collection), but minimises traffic for the more common case > (sync relatively recent changes). I was thinking that the client would just have to send the server the value of /atom:feed/atom:updated (XPath), and then it would receive a feed with entries with a later date. Perhaps it would not get all of them if there were too many, but it would be guaranteed not to get any earlier ones. > There's also an advanced technique involving etags which > keeps track of when each etag was issued and if an old etag > is sent with the request then everything since then is sent > back in the response. Someone will chime in with the reference. I understand that technique already but I'm not sure it is a good idea. Has anybody implemented it? What are the drawbacks? Regards, Brian From error5@a-haha.com Tue Jul 17 02:24:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAgTe-0003Xp-UT for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:24:06 -0400 Received: from [124.105.60.98] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAgTa-0001Pf-3j for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:24:06 -0400 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 500) id 673F67E1CF; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:22:23 +0900 (JST) To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCS2NGYCRHJDkidhsoQg==?= From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?TUFOQQ==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20070714042226.673F67E1CF@localhost.localdomain> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:22:23 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 どうも、初めまして♪麻奈といいます。 貴方といわゆる逆援助交際を希望しています。貴方と関係を持ちたいと本気で思っているので話だけでも聞いて頂けたらと思います。 逆援助というのは、私と定期的に会って頂く見返りとして貴方へお金をお支払いするという内容です。恥かしい事なんですが、社会的な立場や事情もあってまともな交際をできる男性がいないのです。その代わりに割り切った形で会える男性が欲しい…というのが私の希望です。こんな交際内容では会ってもらう事は出来ませんか？初めて連絡をしてきた相手からいきなりこんな言葉が出てくるとは想像もしなかったのではないでしょうか？この交際に関する返答はともかく、よかったら近況だけでも知らせて頂ければ嬉しいです(^^♪ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu Jul 19 17:53:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBdvh-0003kG-Vk for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:53:02 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IBdvh-0003VZ-BP for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:53:01 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6JLXbwa055946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6JLXbe8055945; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6JLXZgD055932 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so1320289pye for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fsVbyhQ7cyjaYjlAIzjhEexpmUW57KsHzEUfW99LSbIjpSynfDL9NeWaw8dATdTGnjlDa04KRr977ezc7CzSQlUYdqXHuwyB66i5GoMVj5TcP2zGiSwuRqvA9Mc4gAQxKv9AZO2wrA0njloqkUxzykNaxf5NAzdAMVV0sne7g6U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=AsxYLGLNTmgdFr4HwlQL4oiDgiJybVREgc5o2izyOGiMZOPElunha3GAN1zVMgMG8fp4NB6NHk3uUEmRRuWUvVGhqijP3RqGFuKPag5BH2J4xRQqHSHBw2qWwxQbsOd090meoRrv4Sy8rfdRxHROFYtL/6fY2b5/gaK+0dxp3ZE= Received: by 10.141.179.5 with SMTP id g5mr805779rvp.1184880814018; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.118? ( [67.181.218.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f42sm4387959rvb.2007.07.19.14.33.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <469FD8AC.3000803@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:32 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax Subject: RFC 4946 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed FYI... The Atom License Extension is now Experimental RFC 4946 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4946.txt - James From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 24 08:54:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDJuZ-0000Wf-Qk for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:54:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDJuY-0006LP-CW for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:54:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6OCYcCu024773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Jul 2007 05:34:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6OCYc2X024772; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 05:34:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [130.129.21.168] (dhcp-3459.ietf69.org [130.129.52.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6OCYaOl024755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 05:34:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:29:39 -0500 To: Atom WG From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 4946 on Atom License Extension Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 4946 Title: Atom License Extension Author: J. Snell Status: Experimental Date: July 2007 Mailbox: jasnell@gmail.com Pages: 8 Characters: 14602 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-snell-atompub-feed-license-11.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4946.txt This memo defines an extension to the Atom Syndication Format for describing licenses associated with Atom feeds and entries. This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. EXPERIMENTAL: This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 24 18:37:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDT0H-0002P4-7x for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:37:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDT0F-0004pe-QR for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:37:17 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6OML5co016532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6OML55k016531; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6OML4NJ016524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:21:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBE32ACA6; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:21:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IDSkZ-0007nj-Gr; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:03 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , atompub mailing list , atompub chair Subject: Protocol Action: 'The Atom Publishing Protocol' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:03 -0400 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'The Atom Publishing Protocol ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Lisa Dusseault and Chris Newman. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt Technical Summary The Atom Publishing Protocol HTTP-based protocol for publishing and editing web resources, and is particularly useful for (but not limited to) blogs. It supports ideas such as collections of multimedia items and categorization of items. It uses the Atom format (RFC 4287) for its messages. Working Group Summary The document went through many revisions and was discussed actively. Protocol Quality There are already many implementations of the spec from a wide variety of vendors, and many of those have been shown to interoperate. Lisa Dusseault reviewed this for the IESG. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 01:45:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFO40-0003hR-Dn for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:45:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFO3z-0000Gb-RT for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:45:04 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6U5IbEo056129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:18:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6U5IbGK056128; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:18:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from people.com.cn ([202.99.23.227]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6U5IXI0056113 for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iesg-secretary@ietf.org) Received: from people.com.cn([127.0.0.1]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jm246ad7cd5; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:30:08 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jm1d146a778e6; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:58:56 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id AISP action; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:58:56 +0800 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDSkd-0006eZ-Eh; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:07 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDSka-0006e9-CJ for ietf-announce@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:04 -0400 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDSka-0008Dd-0u for ietf-announce@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:04 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBE32ACA6; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:21:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IDSkZ-0007nj-Gr; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:03 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:21:03 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: atompub mailing list , Internet Architecture Board , atompub chair , RFC Editor Subject: Protocol Action: 'The Atom Publishing Protocol' to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ietf-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: ietf-announce.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: iesg-secretary@ietf.org X-Auto-Forward: jaglee@people.com.cn jag@kw.com.cn Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d The IESG has approved the following document: - 'The Atom Publishing Protocol ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Atom Publishing Format and Protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Lisa Dusseault and Chris Newman. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-17.txt Technical Summary The Atom Publishing Protocol HTTP-based protocol for publishing and editing web resources, and is particularly useful for (but not limited to) blogs. It supports ideas such as collections of multimedia items and categorization of items. It uses the Atom format (RFC 4287) for its messages. Working Group Summary The document went through many revisions and was discussed actively. Protocol Quality There are already many implementations of the spec from a wide variety of vendors, and many of those have been shown to interoperate. Lisa Dusseault reviewed this for the IESG. _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 13:12:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYmz-0002qo-IY for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:12:13 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYmy-0002ni-82 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:12:13 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UGrjmp027591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:53:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6UGrjrg027590; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:53:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.65.95.54]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UGripx027576 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zxie@lanl.gov) Received: from pobox1663.lanl.gov (pobox1663.lanl.gov [128.165.4.124]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.6/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l6UGraCe015992 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:53:36 -0600 Received: from localhost.localdomain (elephant.lanl.gov [128.165.10.112]) by pobox1663.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.8/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l6UGrX9A009725; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:53:36 -0600 Message-ID: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:53:12 -0600 From: Zhiwu Xie User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: who is the entry author? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075 X-CTN-5-MailScanner-Information: Please see http://network.lanl.gov/email/virus-scan.php X-CTN-5-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-CTN-5-MailScanner-From: zxie@lanl.gov X-Spam-Status: No Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Hi, Just a question on the syntax of atom:author. Is it the author of the content an entry refers to, or is it the one who posts the content to a content management system therefore generates an atom entry? I checked google blog and it seems the later is the case (snippet below), but then earlier discussions seems to suggest the former, e.g., multiple authors/contributors discussion. The same question can be asked on all the other metadata, e.g., rights, updated, published, etc. A more general question is, what all these entry metadata are about. The spec says they are all about the feed or entry, but it's not immediately clear to me what does the entry metadata are about, the XML element itself or the content an entry points to. This has much different implications, e.g., if atom:right says do not copy, does it mean this atom entry cannot be aggregated by other Atom feed aggregator or the contents cannot be distributed within the atom:content? Thanks, Zhiwu Xie ----------------------- google blog snippet: The author of the content should be Matthew Glotzbach, inferred from the content, but the entry author is set to Karen. tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10861780.post-4599612599595997166 2007-07-26T11:13:00.000-07:00 2007-07-26T11:43:42.465-07:00 Earth to the Enterprise <span class="byline-author">Posted by Matthew Glotzbach, Product Management Director, Google Enterprise</span><br /><br />... ... Karen From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 13:21:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYwA-0005Xf-Rx for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:21:42 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYw9-0003fr-GE for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:21:42 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UH3Ofg028588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:03:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6UH3OK0028587; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:03:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UH3MVE028579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:03:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([89.243.184.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l6UH3CN8021613; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:03:14 -0500 Message-ID: <46AE19CB.2080406@defuze.org> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:03:07 +0100 From: Sylvain Hellegouarch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhiwu Xie CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: who is the entry author? References: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> In-Reply-To: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l6UH3Ofg028588 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 One idea could be to use DublinCore to make the distinction easier to=20 define. - Sylvain Zhiwu Xie a =E9crit : > > Hi, > > Just a question on the syntax of atom:author. Is it the author of the=20 > content an entry refers to, or is it the one who posts the content to=20 > a content management system therefore generates an atom entry? I=20 > checked google blog and it seems the later is the case (snippet=20 > below), but then earlier discussions seems to suggest the former,=20 > e.g., multiple authors/contributors discussion. > > The same question can be asked on all the other metadata, e.g.,=20 > rights, updated, published, etc. A more general question is, what all=20 > these entry metadata are about. The spec says they are all about the=20 > feed or entry, but it's not immediately clear to me what does the=20 > entry metadata are about, the XML element itself or the content an=20 > entry points to. This has much different implications, e.g., if=20 > atom:right says do not copy, does it mean this atom entry cannot be=20 > aggregated by other Atom feed aggregator or the contents cannot be=20 > distributed within the atom:content? > > Thanks, > > Zhiwu Xie > > ----------------------- > > google blog snippet: The author of the content should be Matthew=20 > Glotzbach, inferred from the content, but the entry author is set to=20 > Karen. > > > tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10861780.post-4599612599595997166 > 2007-07-26T11:13:00.000-07:00 > 2007-07-26T11:43:42.465-07:00 > Earth to the Enterprise > > <span class=3D"byline-author">Posted by Matthew > Glotzbach, Product Management Director, Google > Enterprise</span><br /><br />... > > ... > > Karen > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 16:50:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFcCM-0000b9-RZ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:50:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFcCL-0000bI-Gi for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:50:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UKW6BN048842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6UKW6NV048841; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.65.95.54]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UKW4Kk048834 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:32:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zxie@lanl.gov) Received: from pobox1663.lanl.gov (pobox1663.lanl.gov [128.165.4.124]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.6/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l6UKW1PX011246 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:32:01 -0600 Received: from localhost.localdomain (elephant.lanl.gov [128.165.10.112]) by pobox1663.lanl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.8/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id l6UKW0Cb009068; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:32:00 -0600 Message-ID: <46AE4ABF.9050907@lanl.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:31:59 -0600 From: Zhiwu Xie User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sylvain Hellegouarch CC: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: who is the entry author? References: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> <46AE19CB.2080406@defuze.org> In-Reply-To: <46AE19CB.2080406@defuze.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075 X-CTN-5-MailScanner-Information: Please see http://network.lanl.gov/email/virus-scan.php X-CTN-5-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-CTN-5-MailScanner-From: zxie@lanl.gov X-Spam-Status: No Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by balder-227.proper.com id l6UKW6BN048842 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 Many thanks Sylvain. Using Dublin Core surely can clarify the issue to=20 some extent, but what I'm trying to figure out is the exact meaning and=20 common practice (if any) for the elements defined by the Atom spec,=20 especially those compulsory ones, because this relates to how these=20 metadata are and can be used for. 1. atom:updated: I guess the atom:updated value is used to alert the=20 downstream application of the changes in the entry therefore prompt=20 appropriate actions. The nature of the change, whether it's a content=20 change or entry link change, is not specified. 2. atom:published: The spec says this is "associated with an event early=20 in the life cycle of the entry", while typically "be associated with the=20 initial creation or first availability of the resource". If the resource=20 (I think this refer to the web content?) is created or made available=20 before the atom:entry is created (which seems to be always the case for=20 google blog), then the resource dates can not be within the life cycle=20 of the entry, right? 3. If an entry x from feed A is aggregated into another feed B as entry=20 x', should the atom:updated, atom:published, atom:author,=20 atom:contributor, and other metadata of the entry x' be modified=20 accordingly or strictly copied over from x? Is there an implied or=20 expected behavior for an aggregator in this aspect? If just copied over,=20 how can the aggregating feed B alert its subscribers of the addition of=20 this new aggregated entry x'? By change the updated of the feed B I=20 guess, but then the updated datetime of the copied entry x' may be much=20 older than the other entries and a feed reader may have difficulty=20 noticing it. If changed accordingly, how do I know which version of the=20 source entry I'm aggregating if there are multiple versions of the entry=20 x, each with a different updated datetime? If the original entry x is=20 updated, should entry x' also be updated? 4. atom:author and atom:contributor of the feed: I guess this is to=20 convey information about some authoritative source of the feed, and used=20 to keep some lineage information, because the spec say the aggregators=20 should keep the authors of the originating feed. But if the aggregation=20 is chained, shouldn't I have multiple source element or just the=20 metadata about the ultimate source? The spec says entry can only have=20 zero or one source, so I guess it's only the ultimate source and the=20 lineage is somewhat lost. Thanks, Zhiwu Xie Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote: > One idea could be to use DublinCore to make the distinction easier to=20 > define. >=20 > - Sylvain >=20 > Zhiwu Xie a =E9crit : >> >> Hi, >> >> Just a question on the syntax of atom:author. Is it the author of the=20 >> content an entry refers to, or is it the one who posts the content to=20 >> a content management system therefore generates an atom entry? I=20 >> checked google blog and it seems the later is the case (snippet=20 >> below), but then earlier discussions seems to suggest the former,=20 >> e.g., multiple authors/contributors discussion. >> >> The same question can be asked on all the other metadata, e.g.,=20 >> rights, updated, published, etc. A more general question is, what all=20 >> these entry metadata are about. The spec says they are all about the=20 >> feed or entry, but it's not immediately clear to me what does the=20 >> entry metadata are about, the XML element itself or the content an=20 >> entry points to. This has much different implications, e.g., if=20 >> atom:right says do not copy, does it mean this atom entry cannot be=20 >> aggregated by other Atom feed aggregator or the contents cannot be=20 >> distributed within the atom:content? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Zhiwu Xie >> >> ----------------------- >> >> google blog snippet: The author of the content should be Matthew=20 >> Glotzbach, inferred from the content, but the entry author is set to=20 >> Karen. >> >> >> tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10861780.post-4599612599595997166 >> 2007-07-26T11:13:00.000-07:00 >> 2007-07-26T11:43:42.465-07:00 >> Earth to the Enterprise >> >> <span class=3D"byline-author">Posted by Matthew >> Glotzbach, Product Management Director, Google >> Enterprise</span><br /><br />... >> >> ... >> >> Karen >> >> >=20 >=20 From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 19:24:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFebS-0000SS-VS for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:24:42 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFebS-0005jm-Dv for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:24:42 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UN67s2064025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6UN67El064024; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from chilco.textdrive.com (chilco.textdrive.com [207.7.108.242]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6UN65O1064016 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bill@dehora.net) Received: from [192.168.2.180] (83-70-233-79.b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net [83.70.233.79]) by chilco.textdrive.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A5CDBED6 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <46AE6EDA.9070805@dehora.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:06:02 +0100 From: Bill de hOra User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Re: who is the entry author? References: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> In-Reply-To: <46AE1778.40201@lanl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Zhiwu Xie wrote: > > Hi, > > Just a question on the syntax of atom:author. Is it the author of the > content an entry refers to, or is it the one who posts the content to a > content management system therefore generates an atom entry? I checked > google blog and it seems the later is the case (snippet below), but then > earlier discussions seems to suggest the former, e.g., multiple > authors/contributors discussion. There's no right answer. > The same question can be asked on all the other metadata, e.g., rights, > updated, published, etc. A more general question is, what all these > entry metadata are about. The spec says they are all about the feed or > entry, but it's not immediately clear to me what does the entry metadata > are about, the XML element itself or the content an entry points to. > This has much different implications, e.g., if atom:right says do not > copy, does it mean this atom entry cannot be aggregated by other Atom > feed aggregator or the contents cannot be distributed within the > atom:content? (I assume you mean "implication" in a technical sense) The only sensible answer I can give is that these facts are typically about whatever is denoted by atom:id. If your system for whatever reason needs to disambiguate the referent of metadata, the best you can do is make sure it's internally consistent, and document that. I would expect that to result in treating atom:id as a primary key. The WG chose not to depend on technology that might help with this kind of issue (such as RDF), and Atom does not have its own semantics. Atom then doesn't go beyond common sense interpretation - ie, your rights attribution issue is as likely to be settled as a matter of case law as specification. It's easy enough to get muddled around whether metadata is about the entry, the markup you received representing the entry, or some other entity. Even then formal models are limited and a surprising number of standards and notional keys have had problems like this (Dublin Core is a good example for the web, abuse of SSNs as identifiers is a classic). There are/have been efforts to create formal models of Atom, dependingon Semantic Web technology, but none of these have standing as they are not products of the WG - all Semantic Web vocabularies boil down to URI ownership so the WG has to agree that certain URIs can stand for Atom; these do not have be in the Atom/AtomPub namespaces. cheers Bill From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon Jul 30 22:53:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFhrY-0004XX-8f for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:53:32 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFhrW-0003wK-QY for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:53:32 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V2YfZS080757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V2YffC080756; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V2Yedb080748 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from teohuiming.work@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d32so3074934pye for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=kwYV8d3/nb/8wXKXvZjwRydSDg27kDqOI6ZMpzid4G9DJYeEXeni9dgumgHVeD39ABCzxu9MjO4PkwjVuVApos1aw+K1X30Yf2U1MbI4SY10+ex6e0qo147IPlzvIctBPH/7NsoIh0j5K9GIx2PCkl/JKnRRWJQE2HAW+KhYt50= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=sAligN6RlcWJfXIWWbZpuyN1vum1qwtvG2zGjUh8RV8atmlDZBFoRbqTSHdG0F/ZhoEwL4YKRIhOeTYbe/pvqH30kILxf52q3tOim00Ad6edIFp/3zyPFtAHFudC5AkWxYXg9Ps96WX5PJ2Pus6DWKdkoqtP8j8N9X6JA4U1/5w= Received: by 10.143.11.13 with SMTP id o13mr333511wfi.1185849279532; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.255.20 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:34:39 +0800 From: "Teo Hui Ming" To: atom-syntax@imc.org Subject: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Here's a scenario: Bob wrote an article, and published it as an Atom document. Alice published a translation of the article, and Bob wish to include a link in his Atom document to point to Alice's translation. The Article Title Bob .. (content) .. The question is, when the link is added (as above), does it imply that Bob owns the translated document? (which is not true, in this case) ---- This raises a more general question: how does metadata like * authorship: , * rights: * licensing: (in RFC4946) apply to documents pointed by and ? IMHO, the assumption is, when these metadata appear in an Atom document, they apply to the data in that document, and do not apply to other documents pointed by atom:link. In other words, I assume atom:link is "normal link" [1] and authors have freedom to link to any document on Web. But, what about atom:content@src ? [1] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Normal ---- I strongly feel that it's important to make this clear to avoid confusion and uncertainly. For example: Quoted from http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg19607.html > > Linking to the RFC as an alternate representation of the entry suggests > that the entry and the RFC issue from the same source. (ie. if the > entry appears in a feed that lists me as an author it implies that > RFC4287 was written by me) Thanks, -- Teo Hui Ming From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 00:18:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFjBa-0007JZ-5N for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:18:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFjBZ-0006jg-H8 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:18:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V3tIqw085442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V3tIGV085441; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:55:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6V3tGdh085391 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:55:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.18] ([203.30.247.18] verified) by ironclad.net.au (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.1902905976 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:54:44 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:54:44 +1000 Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 On 31/7/07 12:34 PM, "Teo Hui Ming" wrote: > Quoted from http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg19607.html >> >> >> The Atom Syndication Format >> An alternative to RSS2. >> >> >> >> >> Linking to the RFC as an alternate representation of the entry suggests >> that the entry and the RFC issue from the same source. (ie. if the >> entry appears in a feed that lists me as an author it implies that >> RFC4287 was written by me) -- Brendan Taylor The author of that entry is Brendan. The author of the referenced document is [whoever] ... but the conflict can be resolved if Brendan avoids linking to the RFC as an "alternate" of his bookmark. It's not an alternate representation of his bookmark, it's the full thing. It's like if I wrote an essay on Shakespeare's "Romeo et Juliet" ... my essay is not an alternate to the play, and vice versa, so there is no conflict regarding which author to put on my entry. So, don't use rel="alternate" (or the null expression which defaults to the same value). Use some other relationship ... However, rel="related" doesn't really communicate the relationship between the reference and the referent, so I'm tempted to propose a new relationship. rel="referent" seems appropriate. Thus, we get: > > The Atom Syndication Format > An alternative to RSS2. > > > Brendan Taylor > Now, as to your scenario: > Bob wrote an article, and published it as an Atom document. > Alice published a translation of the article, and Bob wish to include > a link in his Atom document to point to Alice's translation. Bob would put his name into the entry he authored, but not because he wrote the original article. If a third party (Charles) were to write an entry linking to Bob's article or Alice's translation, then Charles would be the author. BTW, the "author" of Alice's translation would properly still be Bob, but Alice would qualify as a "contributor". e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 00:30:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFjNj-0005bo-Ae for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:30:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFjNi-0006xU-Ne for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:30:51 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V4EDTY086493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V4EDj1086492; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from nlpi043.prodigy.net (nlpi043.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.36.72]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V4ECIO086486 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:14:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jpanzeracm@johnpanzer.com) X-ORBL: [70.132.2.1] Received: from [192.168.1.3] (adsl-70-132-2-1.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [70.132.2.1]) by nlpi043.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6V4E9dV019216; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:14:10 -0500 Message-ID: <46AEC573.804@johnpanzer.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:15:31 -0700 From: John Panzer Reply-To: jpanzer@acm.org User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (Windows/20041201) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Scheid CC: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Eric Scheid wrote: > On 31/7/07 12:34 PM, "Teo Hui Ming" wrote: > > >>Quoted from http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg19607.html >> >>> >>> The Atom Syndication Format >>> An alternative to RSS2. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Linking to the RFC as an alternate representation of the entry suggests >>>that the entry and the RFC issue from the same source. (ie. if the >>>entry appears in a feed that lists me as an author it implies that >>>RFC4287 was written by me) -- Brendan Taylor > > > The author of that entry is Brendan. The author of the referenced document > is [whoever] ... but the conflict can be resolved if Brendan avoids linking > to the RFC as an "alternate" of his bookmark. It's not an alternate > representation of his bookmark, it's the full thing. > > It's like if I wrote an essay on Shakespeare's "Romeo et Juliet" ... my > essay is not an alternate to the play, and vice versa, so there is no > conflict regarding which author to put on my entry. > > So, don't use rel="alternate" (or the null expression which defaults to the > same value). Use some other relationship ... However, rel="related" doesn't > really communicate the relationship between the reference and the referent, > so I'm tempted to propose a new relationship. rel="referent" seems > appropriate. How about rel="bookmark"? (http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-bookmark) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 01:39:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkSA-0007Lz-28 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:39:30 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkS9-0000D2-9Q for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:39:30 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V5GMWO093376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:16:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V5GMcX093375; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:16:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6V5GIJs093355 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.18] ([203.30.247.18] verified) by ironclad.net.au (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.1902906177 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:16:17 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:16:17 +1000 Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46AEC573.804@johnpanzer.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 On 31/7/07 3:15 PM, "John Panzer" wrote: >> So, don't use rel="alternate" (or the null expression which defaults to the >> same value). Use some other relationship ... However, rel="related" doesn't >> really communicate the relationship between the reference and the referent, >> so I'm tempted to propose a new relationship. rel="referent" seems >> appropriate. > > How about rel="bookmark"? > > (http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-bookmark) First reaction: "D'oh! of course." but ... on reading the referenced documentation ... hmmm ... is the referenced link an entry-point to the resource ... depends on what is meant by "the resource" ... which I'm reading as being the entry resource, not the thing the entry is referencing ... so probably no. I think of rel="bookmark" for "the link which is recorded when I hit the bookmark-this-thing-right-here function" ... which would be the bookmark for the entry, not the referenced resource. For example, on del.icio.us I might have [1] in my collection, which can be seen at [2] and also [3]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#id-selectors [2] http://del.icio.us/url/6bf832bf7d20edc9cd6a6f7ab98fdeb1 [3] http://del.icio.us/ironclad?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FREC-CSS2%2Fse lector.html%23id-selectors&jump=no When I'm at del.icio.us, I'd expect rel=bookmark for both [2] and [3] to link to [2]. When I follow the link to the referent (ie. to w3c), then I'd expect rel=bookmark *there* to point to either [4] or even possibly [5] (and of course it could point to both, with appropriate @title to disambiguate) [4] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html [5] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cover.html#minitoc (it couldn't very well point to [1], since it's a document level piece of metadata, not fragment level -- the syntax just isn't available to do that) Also, not so sure it would be appropriate for my essay use case example either: >> It's like if I wrote an essay on Shakespeare's "Romeo et Juliet" ... my >> essay is not an alternate to the play, and vice versa, so there is no >> conflict regarding which author to put on my entry. e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 01:50:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkcu-0004xm-55 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:50:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkct-0000zZ-Ks for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:50:36 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V5ViBx094542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V5ViIN094541; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.188]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V5VhrD094535 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from teohuiming.work@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so411948rvf for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rDPcQCESl7Oohe+u8/3RPBYUjmF7Eq5qP2m0731mKycikOFguv8iBKYlUKKTqpoBAN1qlzq/QgbVUOvsKIcLdDS7Cok/Dyj1Oc7zGwb2pHliMrXDs5Skq1QUGmQ1OAZJfP8qGaW8MJiT7iKAJIjxgM9b0VeBBuiwtT3a1vgD4tc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=gb//bK/IKnBanET/ePsMwdFiUaIC3UwC1GNo+WoILbEk/iZULlyrBBfOv1aXKuE+0wwm4rpGm9a0zko6kpqmEXOixK2Fo46s3Okq1CSJfZhsCarhSbIapjTrY3nLoWaZ1BYHNTjGQzpe1X3G0Sx7KdJKz0jf7xxoBqXxCK+p2Rk= Received: by 10.142.157.15 with SMTP id f15mr254667wfe.1185859902895; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.255.20 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:31:42 +0800 From: "Teo Hui Ming" To: "Eric Scheid" Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? Cc: "Atom Syntax" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa On 7/31/07, Eric Scheid wrote: > Now, as to your scenario: > > > Bob wrote an article, and published it as an Atom document. > > Alice published a translation of the article, and Bob wish to include > > a link in his Atom document to point to Alice's translation. > > Bob would put his name into the entry he authored, but not because he wrote > the original article. If a third party (Charles) were to write an entry > linking to Bob's article or Alice's translation, then Charles would be the > author. I agree. Charles wrote the entry, thus he is the entry's author. But my concern is, can we safely link to any document using atom:link (regardless of @rel), just as we can with html:a and html:link, thus are "normal links" [1]. -OR- @rel may imply certain meaning on relationship (e.g. ownership) between documents that authors/implementers must be careful about. If yes, it seems necessary to make it clear. and atom:content@src, should we treat it as normal / embedded [2] ? [1] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Normal [2] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Embedded > [..] However, rel="related" doesn't > really communicate the relationship between the reference and the referent, > so I'm tempted to propose a new relationship. rel="referent" seems > appropriate. A new precise relation type is fine for new systems. But existing feed readers prefer the first alternate atom:link in feed entry. If service implementers need to compromise, at least they know it's okay to do so. Which is why, I think, the question above is important. Thanks, -- Teo Hui Ming From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 02:13:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkyq-0007gF-4w for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:13:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFkyo-0001WS-Mo for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:13:16 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V5mn4x095914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:48:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V5mnSW095913; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:48:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironclad.net.au ([203.30.247.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l6V5mkDR095907 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au) Received: from [203.30.247.18] ([203.30.247.18] verified) by ironclad.net.au (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.1902906262 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:48:45 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:48:44 +1000 Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? From: Eric Scheid To: Atom Syntax Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 On 31/7/07 3:31 PM, "Teo Hui Ming" wrote: > On 7/31/07, Eric Scheid wrote: >> Now, as to your scenario: >> >>> Bob wrote an article, and published it as an Atom document. >>> Alice published a translation of the article, and Bob wish to include >>> a link in his Atom document to point to Alice's translation. >> >> Bob would put his name into the entry he authored, but not because he wrote >> the original article. If a third party (Charles) were to write an entry >> linking to Bob's article or Alice's translation, then Charles would be the >> author. > > I agree. Charles wrote the entry, thus he is the entry's author. > > But my concern is, can we safely link to any document using atom:link > (regardless of @rel), just as we can with html:a and html:link, thus > are "normal links" [1]. there is no "regardless of @rel", because RFC 4287 has this to say: 4.2.7.2. The "rel" Attribute atom:link elements MAY have a "rel" attribute that indicates the link relation type. If the "rel" attribute is not present, the link element MUST be interpreted as if the link relation type is "alternate". > @rel may imply certain meaning on relationship (e.g. ownership) > between documents that authors/implementers must be careful about. If > yes, it seems necessary to make it clear. I would hope RFC2887#4.2.7.2 is clear :-) > and atom:content@src, should we treat it as normal / embedded [2] ? > > [1] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Normal > [2] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Embedded My understanding is that atom:content@src is the latter. e. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 03:18:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFlzw-0001nT-2O for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:18:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFlzv-00039p-JZ for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:18:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V6xRpZ001633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V6xR31001632; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.183]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V6xQT8001624 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so2255128waf for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pH8oWkRZHk/KcO4ggyfsDbHdCBz1GEco9bkHCGrfnRWCzcEezJiYNXdxCCkqQHWa3gKzKJfRLD0x2cIte4LgIy8kQvIczBPiBY72B98+C4N74ILbJO7y4CFBYvDPs4C0OGjn0WJ0a25H5QwfN/hIWV4LLLMqzkkfvzKrj5Nb/hI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DNSXBQ9HXe41bakjK6h4zqo8UVIczKH+yjAoKJHscgdSFf5Fpvl0LWZdRGvKHxybsJ0bDVBVBg38oWJizhgqQuaiNZGSG1rjKszvViGMm6Njb9k7U9cEQ/CcH+jJ0ROd82Ak10yqzFJAxw5wirgScqWVV3gXFnBlIz75Ms85o3M= Received: by 10.114.14.1 with SMTP id 1mr6412854wan.1185865166119; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.179.9 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:59:26 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? In-Reply-To: <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 2007/7/31, Teo Hui Ming: > > But my concern is, can we safely link to any document using atom:link > (regardless of @rel), just as we can with html:a and html:link, thus > are "normal links" [1]. > > -OR- > > @rel may imply certain meaning on relationship (e.g. ownership) > between documents that authors/implementers must be careful about. If > yes, it seems necessary to make it clear. atom:link/@rel has the exact same implications as html:link/@rel / html:a/@rel. The only difference with HTML is that in Atom there is *always* a 'rel' value (someone might argue that in HTML, when there is no @rel on an html:link or html:a, you can make it default to rel="related"). > and atom:content@src, should we treat it as normal / embedded [2] ? > > [1] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Normal > [2] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkLaw.html#Embedded Embedded, as Eric said. Hence the @src vs. @href > > [..] However, rel="related" doesn't > > really communicate the relationship between the reference and the referent, > > so I'm tempted to propose a new relationship. rel="referent" seems > > appropriate. > > A new precise relation type is fine for new systems. But existing feed > readers prefer the first alternate atom:link in feed entry. If service > implementers need to compromise, at least they know it's okay to do > so. Which is why, I think, the question above is important. > > > Thanks, > -- > Teo Hui Ming > > -- Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 03:40:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFmLg-0004ZT-4S for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:40:56 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFmLf-0003mx-Nb for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:40:56 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V7KJpr003608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V7KJYi003607; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.webfaction.com (mail1.webfaction.com [67.15.2.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V7KHaU003601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:20:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sh@defuze.org) Received: from [192.168.1.70] (host81-149-60-121.in-addr.btopenworld.com [81.149.60.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail1.webfaction.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l6V7KFIt005251; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:20:15 -0500 Message-ID: <46AEE2AE.701@defuze.org> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:20:14 +0100 From: Sylvain Hellegouarch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Broyer CC: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? References: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 > Embedded, as Eric said. > > Hence the @src vs. @href > > Interesting. That would mean that content/@src implies ownership by the atom:author of the resource pointed by @src right? This is quite an important but subtle warning in regards of licensing issue since a content/@src of a copyrighted resource, by someone distinct from atom:author, would be prohibited. Am I getting this wrong? - Sylvain From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 05:08:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFniO-0002B3-GE for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:08:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFniM-0006TK-M6 for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:08:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V8l9M2012675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V8l9ka012672; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.190]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V8l875012665 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from t.broyer@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so438983rvf for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=snLEjg6qoIAQeF9DvsS4pilToBi4YK67cpPmlQ0XdhVmy+Ym8RuKsLOi4aQ50tP29bU5UwH1uRCKhpXwb91A6UMjAU6Cba+ufb7IjJhTV8H1se1MH1G9lChUpxgXYDE9iLo47rFbd6vMrkaR4ZEQOiY8PgbP55IUxDdoQ7tFn8Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M6aiwqrV63M0O1YkjCk134YOprqoiqPdQwCz8+PJzn7NjiK7j5dptEzMMAtpKCljugGiqPE4I+O5DzvA+LWTouyIk9/etiPMLdOu0FgCAJ4bPXMTCN1fYRWNLlacgMMcz854Au5svP11TXLQ03gQ+nc3ZKQs/sXw5AAS3W3knkE= Received: by 10.114.134.1 with SMTP id h1mr6499348wad.1185871627575; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.179.9 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:47:07 +0200 From: "Thomas Broyer" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? In-Reply-To: <46AEE2AE.701@defuze.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline References: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> <46AEE2AE.701@defuze.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l6V8l975012667 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 2007/7/31, Sylvain Hellegouarch: > > > Hence the @src vs. @href > > Interesting. That would mean that content/@src implies ownership by the > atom:author of the resource pointed by @src right? This is quite an > important but subtle warning in regards of licensing issue since a > content/@src of a copyrighted resource, by someone distinct from > atom:author, would be prohibited. Am I getting this wrong? No. Is the exact equivalent to R0lGODlhSwBLAMQAAOLcnp61x26Mm9HTx+7qx/z8/GRrQYeMa5Kpt3mU o7TG1NXMdOfp5MnV3re6ptrh4/b04KywmfP08eTq73d+W/v68u3w8vP2+IWe q/j5+Z+ki3qevMLEtJSZeoOkwP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAABLAEsAQAX/4C eOZGmeaKqubHsWg0YZ3IUJeJ4rxWFQkYFrqCo4DB3GUCF4iAqKhNPF8H GIpgESACBAKoXhJMEbZQKYC7HAvkx8QhYDaaoAFgtC8fPwbDyAgX4bCh kXYSkNCB4KamYHFEooEh2RLhkPAR4BTgp/gqCBfxYVBHhdLg8GERkoE zo6Ci+YCoABDY5jDYgiFhiyIqV4C11gJg2wOhOuAQk5CMtYIgECFmZoEtK tFgoBCLfW0iMDPhpTKkzLBc3RKTEGB3Hi8/T19ljIyQIY4ff3DB1+XFnRwJuC dimOGNCQzZ8ICT7ODcmAAYGjDxYSBBCn5QAWBhQ6ELhDoEKJUlxO/3 khgUzihwZSSlx40M0DAgUNJvD6cKFWgAMHGqK4IMMlCgh38oCB8ikUqA0 IrBXIUHATQhRaHOwsoWWgiUxWt45g2vRpgH51TBGDcOJBEhQP9OXYiPP qUAwBLr5s4qIUW2dyEYhNCK+VGI2IMm4cYmGGPIcmCljg4OOHBg6S+C QoiGEEAw4yDCAZIBSywwsNbuAIoNO067aA9QUY/HqIkRlAGGRANEZ2m DYPIoim4LW2mSMUHqd4VYgnhs4tOIjmQJsjPLQtECToF7fBR8f0VHUozRiv YZ4IEMyDaGlIRz0fIIwcludLigebSUBJYFe/BZqa2HTLAw9AYlRkwk1hB/8e8J 0gX1IAsMVHNwEEgJNhEyiwiIUTnFfCA4s00EpWK0hX3ElqRWjCBQGU5dQ f/XFjk4goSKccCZS0N4QpBLDoolOAbDDBBDYdeB8QHpKQgXA3lpDhjGhZ0 CKQgmzgElKnmOSOAQ6sUEBBFmZjAQKEJOlkN8s8ucGamzxQwIIqpgAB Hmw9gIEzCUDjilw4yPJfTd80gF0v5pHQHQooDVPMB7Elg8FWUMiFgZksIJD GWFH0t0JvyVjkAnuUEiSAdyJckJ40EohGHj3INYmCpYYdygIMM5zoWgbkC KSXkhphJMBiJljgwAzxVGdcCVMxMIADGkAi2rMUHKCBAwPoZuz/sdhme0 8BbkxgQaja2nNGMvmFexoCfAJjLj0MMIAfn7MRuG4LGQwr2gHUfkCNPjEN EEFlxF1r3ADEDkCpnbDkFZkEHBSsbQEPzDDeCm6cJ4GbKwAED8auGbG xC8iQ+oF2g2JVq2lHTDwENe2ETEQVNNwTsY5DWHoRc9KARDMWwnUpj Q0KP4SXOAUIZ2sLAWWGxRhllIqGwHDRMcQFPtCn0hfX4rcLpvy0wO0EDd TkAQYLQV20AQySkOjVWhrKF0tvIzuT2BY+cBFMXLZAIpwSnoTlKRI+QKoh jjzQjgVVbSLoCRNoUsgRro5gAVClzblWChWUokfjg6z5xy0fNK7A/wMli/Aka 4iApDJWq7yQYt8mEPljlSIzrgnqJmhggJEfLGlA5MFA2DYfVD7VnBkNANKIC iROUonSK1iexxmzv6gTiG2mskqoOUJPcSYiTlm8KN46sIB9qSCJQgZFtUCT 4oe8VL1ZjvwdJ/OrVGdiChloyEjJDZhfkI6nn781yAQ2UoEEDLYinzwAXNz6kh +eQohDwC4tp+CFBSagBjbcRzU4IAMfNMWTxLHmW72bAIHUYIgC2K8kKd ADE2ARExNkAF38EsrX/McIlzDNSaMywXwAl7kR4FAf6hpBXOClL6iAQwW +CICHZIW5IRKgAI2CxaRKkBE+eQdqT0iPXmDCu6AU7EsftZMcCHVQxhRo R4eZEse7dKAn/v3HcLthABhJkI5rbBEL5HBTBga5x3HAY1UriEvTJDA0IjRmd w4RTgdKdwIbCMZ0AkjiCiaXN9dIhwZQa0YHmdDG3kknOdhigO4o4ABK8iGI FHlUChggnFW40jWf8QEQBiCWZrwyjbgKzQE4cEtscSs4M3jWATogAwo4M zTQcsAD50XNalpzBSEAADs= (and actually also to ) -- Thomas Broyer From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 05:08:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFniY-0002G4-Rx for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:08:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFniY-0006Tk-9e for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:08:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V8pgOg013606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6V8pgW0013605; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.187]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6V8pfaQ013596 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from teohuiming.work@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so439665rvf for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ASKu7lqDjgmQzB0Xn1h++A/Ty0taV9c0KrT6Rhuf7id5N/hswXoIvbLEHKDxbDeDvxxBvDQDPfJLov4DdNK2Vqlqrxnvudy7RF9RZy1NM8sTZUjQz5ebU0HxYmisr4nOckY0RKA1dM8GwJWWZLcBz6mBBDcmotyFsU8zYZgjRQ8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nPzKhGMnEkbMclzulpoT9bLjAOf/zC4KFqW5djSsaW6MFux2tD5qY6yFtwDneUtvRg4YwUa9n6xsgQG9Nwt8DN6QzeU03NuFohIGmL1GkifKwHXlEPuVvXK91+OOII5AIjTKASdU/zUqEBG4STr3J0EIuJ6ZVEcI8MSI0brQnp0= Received: by 10.142.107.1 with SMTP id f1mr336797wfc.1185871901130; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.255.20 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73ec599d0707310151r4c0b5da2xa5a5a567f16d6ad1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:51:41 +0800 From: "Teo Hui Ming" To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? In-Reply-To: <46AEE2AE.701@defuze.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <73ec599d0707301934x255455fdte91f3e7caabda92@mail.gmail.com> <73ec599d0707302231j495637f2w92a0dad7d135d330@mail.gmail.com> <46AEE2AE.701@defuze.org> Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Thanks for the quick replies to clarify the issue. It seems important for people to understand the implication of @src vs @href (Embedded vs Normal Link). -- Teo Hui Ming From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue Jul 31 17:17:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFz6B-0002Nt-Ny for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:17:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com ([192.245.12.227]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFz6A-0005sf-9t for atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:17:47 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6VKv1Xh086282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l6VKv1YP086281; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.172]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l6VKv1XM086274 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from j4_james@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.152.17]) by bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:57:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:57:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 85.211.239.181 by BAY141-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:56:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [85.211.239.181] X-Originating-Email: [j4_james@hotmail.com] X-Sender: j4_james@hotmail.com From: "James Holderness" To: "Atom Syntax" References: <46AEC573.804@johnpanzer.com> Subject: Re: Does atom:author apply to document pointed by atom:link@rel=alternate? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:56:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2007 20:57:00.0497 (UTC) FILETIME=[56F7CC10:01C7D3B5] Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c John Panzer wrote: > How about rel="bookmark"? You'd still have to register it for use in Atom - you can't just throw any old HTML rel value into an Atom link. Either use an IRI or a registered link relation. Of course if you actually what people to be able to see the link, you'd be better off sticking with "alternate", no matter how inappropriate it may seem. Regards James