From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 1 06:41:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13873A6FC3 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 06:41:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-+7kwsQ5jMW for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 06:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F423A6FA9 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 06:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n41DXRsq020994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 May 2009 06:33:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n41DXR4x020993; Fri, 1 May 2009 06:33:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.144]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n41DXG9a020982 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 06:33:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ed.summers@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 9so2061020qwj.28 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:33:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LqtZpz4VEzWGDsMVUvgnkRhoUtghAVoxKYto/kLCWWk=; b=ZZxTeXk0uNvidQ/c65cetTEx3bpLzYN2+EbRXAQ1b5gCj/gNAIyoMF72YQqHvac3FP A5tABdfj5JTbo2ZfkmsmHoOObyGyzJy7Fs6mtLK8nOdRcF47IhoF/4TmBw/EmMn0JOIc 57f8uodD8BzFDHfJk+H5CCLxPt08lXpUYPt7o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=u1MgF86FAJJmmgsZhosaVloLv4MtJFD708RglK5j+kHOeK2RRstEE+0NN+0y37gRZ3 rblyGfV8CKcmgvBDJICfUWMAHChKFk/a5gS/Nqaxe6i1x5X1DQmQ3Otpbjx8iG3vvdsG +y1VuA6HGCO2Kod1eQdWI7UjJX7fkGsPs8sho= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.99.17 with SMTP id s17mr5493454vcn.0.1241184795910; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:33:15 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0efe43a3924b0663 Message-ID: Subject: atom feeds as sitemaps From: Ed Summers To: atom-syntax@imc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi all, I've read that Google (and others crawlers?) support Atom feeds as sitemaps [1]. Does anyone know offhand if they support feed paging as detailed in RFC 5005? If this question is best suited for another forum please let me know and I'll ask there. //Ed [1] http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=34654#1 [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5005 From christenerx@canmoredentalcentre.com Fri May 1 09:01:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D1C3A7257; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.495 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZ2Zmzr6Uobu; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adeskout.autodesk.com (adeskout.autodesk.com [198.102.112.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957E83A7087; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 198.102.112.18 by ; Fri, 1 May 2009 12:01:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c9ca76$1fdba5d0$6400a8c0@christenerx> From: "Ebony Denny" To: Subject: Easy and effective secrets how to attract lovely women. Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:01:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0076_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0076_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was chuckling while i cooked thinking about how my irish grandparents alw= ays had a plaque on their wall with this prayer on it: "may you be in heave= n a half hour before the devil knows your dead" ha!=20 and i love it (thanks, coco).=20 i am excited about my new running shoes. we ate corned beef and cabbage with irish soda bread last night in preparat= ion for the day of the irish.=20 i told cate about st. patrick's day and ireland- she has a lot of irish anc= estors through me.=20 trust me, you'll want her working her magic on you.=20 1. in the craft room i throw everything on the homework table. that clears = up the floor for more mess craft making.=20 she never looks like a senator from krypton on the red carpet.=20 mostly i just stinking LOVE knitting.=20 she wears birkenstocks to fashion shows.=20 here's an irish blessing from us to you... but then again, we looove roadtrips. kiss me, i'm irish when she does these weekends she fills up really fast so don't wait- if you= need color and/or cut and/or face waxing at very reasonable prices email h= er promptly and she'll get you booked and give you directions.=20 i love the comments i get from all of you.=20 it's definately worth the long drive, and my wheels are turning with projects to put together for a locals knitti= ng class.=20 but so worth it. let's give a hand to the world, for everything it can do!!=20 haha, that's my girl.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0076_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
i was chuckling while i cooked thinking about how m= y irish grandparents always had a plaque on their wall with this prayer on = it: "may you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows your dead" ha!=
and i love it (thanks, coco).
i am excited about my new running shoes.
=
we ate corned beef and cabbage with irish soda brea= d last night in preparation for the day of the irish.
i told cate about st. patrick's day and ireland- sh= e has a lot of irish ancestors through me.
trust me, you'll want her working her magic on you.=
1. in the craft room i throw everything on the home= work table. that clears up the floor for more mess craft making.
she never looks like a senator from krypton on the = red carpet.
mostly i just stinking LOVE knitting.
she wears birkenstocks to fashion shows.
here's an irish blessing from us to you...
but then again, we looove roadtrips.
kiss me, i'm irish
when she does these weekends she fills up really fa= st so don't wait- if you need color and/or cut and/or face waxing at very r= easonable prices email her promptly and she'll get you booked and give you = directions.
i love the comments i get from all of you.
it's definately worth the long drive,
and my wheels are turning with projects to put toge= ther for a locals knitting class.
but so worth it.
let's give a hand to the world, for everything it c= an do!!
haha, that's my girl.
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z6d4K1Sz2VF3sWrLQObdDCB29ckyOzHdlsIHLyX9oWF1eIHKnd+Zgy4tqM+eMoQXfZdAdFysFNy0 GisNd7JeK4pWn6NQ5gvdPCVngep6IIWHEyj/NyBlVTZIZP5/gMxlgeOS2d5PECnC/R1A5sLjlwEp 5Uz5T4ABALib3BOckAI/AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C9CA76.1FDBA5D0-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 1 09:14:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520823A7087 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zcmL6COKSjcx for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54913A7280 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n41G14DJ030900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n41G14HA030899; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n41G0r0E030870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:01:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.222] (dhcp222.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.222]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n41G0mld012873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 09:00:52 -0700 Message-ID: <49FB1CAD.4010603@berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 09:00:45 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: atom feeds as sitemaps References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: i don't know but i'd like to know. you might want to contact the author of http://www2009.org/proceedings/pdf/p991.pdf, presented last week at www2009. he can probably tell you all the details, and i would be curious as well... cheers, dret. Ed Summers wrote: > Hi all, > > I've read that Google (and others crawlers?) support Atom feeds as > sitemaps [1]. Does anyone know offhand if they support feed paging as > detailed in RFC 5005? > > If this question is best suited for another forum please let me know > and I'll ask there. > > //Ed > > [1] http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=34654#1 > [2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5005 -- erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From marketingx@agtal.com.br Fri May 1 10:37:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DC33A6CD8 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.283 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.283 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HELO_EQ_MY=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RU06O8aDYdyg for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 89.88.95.219.cbj01-home.tm.net.my (89.88.95.219.cbj01-home.tm.net.my [219.95.88.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8BEC93A6FF9 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:00 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:37:00 -0700 (PDT)

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From jclareto@aguasandinas.cl Mon May 4 20:27:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACE93A7017 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 20:27:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.671 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.671 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4U9c1huL2min for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 20:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host-84-220-244-85.cust-adsl.tiscali.it (host-84-220-244-85.cust-adsl.tiscali.it [84.220.244.85]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 80CA13A69DF for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From katzennn@alpsteel.com Tue May 5 13:12:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8489D3A6B95 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.867 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.867 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HOST_EQ_STATICIP=1.511, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPS2xbi+Lu0r for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 120.Red-80-35-58.staticIP.rima-tde.net (120.Red-80-35-58.staticIP.rima-tde.net [80.35.58.120]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 237A43A65A6 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:12:37 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:12:37 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From mnavajas@aguasdevalencia.es Tue May 5 19:56:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7A63A6813 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 19:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -77.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-77.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmv+BmPEWC8x for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 19:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc-191-15-241-201.cm.vtr.net (pc-191-15-241-201.cm.vtr.net [201.241.15.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 613B03A6A5D for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 19:56:31 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$600/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090506025632.613B03A6A5D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 19:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: hjwcngfmaj@gmail.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 5 21:02:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977943A6A5A for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:02:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.211, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tr34AblTOv5D for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92AC3A6A03 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n463ss5o099813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 5 May 2009 20:54:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n463ssdH099812; Tue, 5 May 2009 20:54:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n463sgax099798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 20:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.158.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CA5923E3F9; Tue, 5 May 2009 23:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Cc: , Message-Id: <4BC575D9-B2D8-4332-9A14-E324645F4672@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Choy_David@emc.com In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Comments on CMIS link relations Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:54:37 +1000 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi David, The best place for questions that are specific to AtomPub (as opposed to Atom, including the link relations) is the atom-protocol list; http://www.imc.org/atom-protocol/ Although there's a lot of overlap between it and atom-syntax, it probably wouldn't hurt to ping them and ask for feedback there too. Cheers, On 05/05/2009, at 5:26 AM, Choy_David@emc.com wrote: > Hi, Mark, > > Thank you for your helpful comments. The CMIS TC does intend to seek > AtomPub link relation registration in the near future. Please keep us > informed about the new registration process. > > Separately, the TC can use some assistance in refining the CMIS > AtomPub > binding. In the upcoming weeks, members of the CMIS TC may seek help > from the AtomPub community on specific design questions. I hope you > and > the AtomPub community can point us in the right direction. > The CMIS draft spec is publicly accessible (as well as almost all > other > TC working materials). > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32171 > Any comment will be much appreciated. > > Regards, > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Nottingham [mailto:mnot@mnot.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:58 PM > To: cmis-comment@lists.oasis-open.org > Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax > Subject: [cmis-comment] Comments on CMIS link relations > > [ CC:ing atom-syntax FYI ] > > CMIS > %2061.zip >> specifies a large number of new link relations for use in Atom. A > few comments and questions follow: > > 1. Each one of the link relations specifies a type of document that it > references (with "Mime/Type", although I note that the proper term is > media type, and the values given are prose descriptions, not media > types). Is the intent here to limit these relations to those types? If > so, this is conflating the job of a link relation with a media type. > Link relation types should not be specific to any single format. > > 2. Some of the proposed registrations seem to overlap with existing > relation types (e.g., "parents" whereas "up" has already been > registered; "repository" where "service" would probably do.). > > 3. Other proposed registrations seem to be very specific to your use > case (e.g., "streams", "allowableactions"). These cases may be better > served by using extension relations (i.e., URIs). > > 4. Of the remaining ones, it does seem like there are some useful > things to register (e.g., "child", "latestversion"), but the language > shouldn't be specific to your use case; they need to be generic. > > 5. In case you're not aware, there's a proposal circulating to revise > the link relation registration process, as well as provide a framework > for them; see > header/ >> . > > Cheers, > > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ > > > -- > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > OASIS Content Management Interoperability Services (CMIS) TC. > > In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > before posting. > > Subscribe: cmis-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > Unsubscribe: cmis-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > List help: cmis-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > List archive: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/cmis-comment/ > Feedback License: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php > Committee: > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=cmis > > -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 5 21:04:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D353A6A5E for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:04:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.445 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.445 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.846, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MdN+-xeJidHW for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A833A6A03 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 21:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n463wb0S099921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 5 May 2009 20:58:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n463wbdR099920; Tue, 5 May 2009 20:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n463waOP099914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 20:58:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mnot@mnot.net) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [118.208.158.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6086423E3F9; Tue, 5 May 2009 23:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax , cmis-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, cmis@lists.oasis-open.org Message-Id: <9D073FA2-7219-4331-B668-590B04EC31C1@mnot.net> From: Mark Nottingham To: Al Brown In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: [cmis-comment] Comments on CMIS link relations Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:58:32 +1000 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Al, Responses inline. On 06/05/2009, at 1:09 AM, Al Brown wrote: > Mark, > > Thanks for taking the time for reviewing. You raise some interesting > points. I'd like to address them individually: > > 1. The spec has a section on IANA registration that defines the link > relations and general concept they represent. The spec then uses > those link relations and binds them (for the CMIS specification) to > specific media types. The links to be registered are not specific to > a media type but rather used to model concepts not yet in the link > draft you specified. > Ah, good. > 2. Both up and service are not defined in that draft your provided > so I am not sure I understand them completely. As long as up is > defined to include the up 'document' in 1 hierarchy and if more than > 1 hierarchy then a resource describing the collection of up > documents then that works. The 1..n aspect is important. Also, in > CMIS, repository maps to a workspace in a service a document, so > somehow that association needs to be kept. > Sorry about that; both were missed in my last draft, and will be in the next one. They're already in the registry; http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml > 3. Agreed. For those that are specific, either URI format or a > general purpose link relation that fits will be chosen. On the two > you mentioned, we have an issue to remove stream. On allowable > actions, it is used to represent a document that describes the > actions that can be taken on resource. That concept does not seem to > be modeled yet. Would 'actions' be better term for this? > I'm not sure. Does the document describe the specific semantics that are allowed (potentially in an extensible way), or is it more focused on conveying permissions? Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From lahaksap@absexshop.com Wed May 6 13:04:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22BFF28C0EE for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -87.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1qAFWjDCyxxF for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from advanced-connect.net (20158041084.user.veloxzone.com.br [201.58.41.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E50AF3A6CF0 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$800/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090506-0, 06/05/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Message-Id: <20090506200445.E50AF3A6CF0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: BryonColeIW@gmail.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From jonathan.j.christiannn@accenture.com Wed May 6 13:07:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B6B3A6C94 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -84.923 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-84.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jldGUk41HlRO for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alexander.lyris.net (unknown [189.205.221.218]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C42B73A6A58 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery~Secret Shopper [$650/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090506200740.C42B73A6A58@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: GavinWittPG@gmail.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From jealvarez@amara.es Wed May 6 14:56:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3153A6CC4 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:56:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -29.04 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-29.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=38.560, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j4DpGwreU+nq for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-68-145-218.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-68-145-218.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.68.145.218]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B73E3A698F for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:56:49 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery~Secret Shopper [$650/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090506215651.1B73E3A698F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 14:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: RickySimsXV@gmail.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From alarmist_1978@kirfel.com Fri May 8 01:12:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8C93A6E03 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 01:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.474 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.474 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id okZYz1uzV7or for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 01:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl2-139.lsf.forthnet.gr (adsl11-72.lsf.forthnet.gr [79.103.138.72]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C533A6993 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 01:12:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:13:53 +0300 To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org From: Jesusa Hase Subject: Tamiflu on discounts! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_00467807==.ALT" Message-Id: <20090508081232.16C533A6993@core3.amsl.com> --=====================_00467807==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The more you buy, the less gets the price Anti-infection packs for everyone http://www.kaqtejuh.cn/ --=====================_00467807==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" The more you buy, the less gets the price Anti-infection packs for everyone http://www.kaqtejuh.cn/ --=====================_00467807==.ALT-- From calendar-invite@reply.yahoo.com Fri May 8 10:17:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6313A6CF3 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.401 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_39=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oTsgXa4AzL+t for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n27.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (n27.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.222]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C85503A6CC2 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:17:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=gcom1024; t=1241803114; bh=Ox0oHDfjaaDfhUO82ddfC6+rDSLojvcIIWuVkbOP7b0=; h=Received:Received:Date:Received:x-yahoo-newman-errors:MIME-Version:Reply-to:Return-Path:Errors-To:From:To:Subject:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Calendar-Iid:X-RocketSRV:Content-Type; b=EtTdJWcZJNDQ1/IMFGO0QJ6Yp+BPbKlKVOyIsPBmEpQkoQGQV19P1oDNKNLcvuN5V5OlkDqfkKtBSyWLKTjI2iMtYl3TAFXZur4Yojw4HsrK97FokriPSqCMJMrXUi0oTonR0Sda2Jz0r9uZdkVCQI+8jYsN9ShdG2U8wtK8j7A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=gcom1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Uw3iBLiWH7N9S9c+/11wdkxSOnxYOXiLSC130rKUYlTDdOGCWIqMl3X+bH4m3LeB10Ux7BhNg7SsgrFvs8+IFUEB+XcSHGdZYtDrMNX3W6z89ubGtWhJCghLxe8kp8mWOQlKnvav4t/jI5nFYQBXRSDUG1BomY27KGO3hghdnK8=; Received: from [68.142.194.243] by n27.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2009 17:18:30 -0000 Received: from [209.191.93.246] by t1.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2009 17:18:30 -0000 Date: 08 May 2009 10:18:30 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web123.cal.pim.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2009 17:18:30 -0000 x-yahoo-newman-errors: calendar-invite.onqw4zdsmfpwuylnmuytinjdnn2s2mjsgqytqmbtgeytalltmfxgi4tbl5vgc3lfge2dki3lou5dcna-atompub-archive=megatron.ietf.org@returns.bulk.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: sandra_jame145@yahoo.com Errors-To: sandra_jame145@yahoo.com From: Sandra James To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: My Dearest One!Greetings to you X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: calendar-invite X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: sandra_jame145#ku-1241803110-sandra_jame145#ku:14 X-Yahoo-Calendar-Iid: wxRtUsjAgOA5avym5xio4Xl%40MxOk%40PZvphAM%40x%40%40 X-RocketSRV: siu=http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/pim/el/inv16_1.gif;siw=16;sih=16;allow=all Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="YCalInvites=eAsA5pGcivMTm37a9HndrO2NMtDVMFX1241803104-1" Message-Id: <20090508171704.C85503A6CC2@core3.amsl.com> --YCalInvites=eAsA5pGcivMTm37a9HndrO2NMtDVMFX1241803104-1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; You are invited to "My Dearest One!Greetings to you". By your host Sandra James: Date: Friday May 8, 2009 Time: 4:00 pm - 5:00 pm (GMT +00:00) Street: My Dearest One!Greetings to you, I hope this mail will find you well & healthy and hope we can established a relationship since we are meeting here for the first time, I was impressed when i came across your contacts and decide to communicate with you.It is my desire to know you, I like honesty, trust, lovely. caring,truth,& respect, I have all this qulities in me,kindly respond to me through my private mail box(sandra_james258@yahoo.com) so we can know ourself 's better. RESPECT is the key for understanding and tolerance among human beings. I hope to read from you if your are also interested. Theni will send my pictures to you.Thanks and hoping to hear from you soonest in my yahoo id and remain bless.my name is Sandra James pls can you send me ur email ok thinks my email is sandra_james258@yahoo.com) From Sandra James. Will you attend? RSVP to this invitation at: http://calendar.yahoo.com/sandra_jame145?v=126&a1=0&iid=wxRtUsjAgOA5avym5xio4Xl%40MxOk%40PZvphAM%40x%40%40&igid=9hBvpgfDCKM1%40fm1NxQ1YUd%40VmDjBLYdqh%40vi6nbwov%40 Copyright © 2009 All Rights Reserved www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --YCalInvites=eAsA5pGcivMTm37a9HndrO2NMtDVMFX1241803104-1 Content-type: text/html; charset=windows-1252;
You're invited to:   My Dearest One!Greetings to you
By your host:   Sandra James
 
Date:   Friday May 8, 2009
Time:   4:00 pm - 5:00 pm  (GMT +00:00)
Street:   My Dearest One!Greetings to you, I hope this mail will find you well & healthy and hope we can established a relationship since we are meeting here for the first time, I was impressed when i came across your contacts and decide to communicate with you.It is my desire to know you, I like honesty, trust, lovely. caring,truth,& respect, I have all this qulities in me,kindly respond to me through my private mail box(sandra_james258@yahoo.com) so we can know ourself 's better. RESPECT is the key for understanding and tolerance among human beings. I hope to read from you if your are also interested. Theni will send my pictures to you.Thanks and hoping to hear from you soonest in my yahoo id and remain bless.my name is Sandra James pls can you send me ur email ok thinks my email is sandra_james258@yahoo.com) From Sandra James.
 
Will you attend?   RSVP to this invitation
Copyright © 2009  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
--YCalInvites=eAsA5pGcivMTm37a9HndrO2NMtDVMFX1241803104-1-- From mwasiaknn@amrest.com.pl Fri May 8 10:47:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011AE3A70F5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.278 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GujvEk0XYBAg for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 189-84-83-124.marinter.com.br (189-84-83-124.marinter.com.br [189.84.83.124]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 56D3028C108 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From leenan@aitlbd.net Fri May 8 12:47:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF70C28C20B for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:47:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_RO=1.235, HOST_EQ_RO=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ovBeAH15aiY7 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyn-89.136.28.29.vn.upcnet.ro (dyn-89.136.28.29.vn.upcnet.ro [89.136.28.29]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6655128C2FB for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 8 14:57:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68C73A6991 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 14:57:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YT5JWxxpRG32 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 14:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AF13A6BCB for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 14:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n48Logw6062686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 May 2009 14:50:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n48LogXg062684; Fri, 8 May 2009 14:50:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n48LoUIP062669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 May 2009 14:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n48LoN1J030164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 May 2009 21:50:24 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n48LoRpb013326; Fri, 8 May 2009 21:50:28 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 May 2009 14:50:25 -0700 Message-Id: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Atom Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Best current practice for collection discovery Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:49:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4A04A922.021A:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi folks, When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we frequently encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through its public URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of whether new items can be added to them. Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known AtomPub server, then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing with specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure this out. The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided only a feed URL have no way of figuring this out. There are two alternatives: 1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=service" but that tends to not be present on any of the feeds we see. 2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: collection element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism is very useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if so, how it may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there are far too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as where an implementation does not use AtomPub service documents. We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to allow those starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being used in the wild. Nikunj o-micron.blogspot.com [1] http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00.txt From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Sun May 10 16:13:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412F93A6BDE for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.839 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.839 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.662, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y3-193b4jYFb for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DF03A6B65 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4AN78Ud014707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 May 2009 16:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4AN784A014706; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-gx0-f176.google.com (mail-gx0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4AN6sUd014693; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so7060077gxk.10 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:06:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WnBG0YYXCH+lJBeeVK0cIkwLscNpGVN88dwcR4OgopQ=; b=JCtjtMhrcQQEfEdg4sfVYp3PcZlnSi3ZRCJs7OaVJ8y/o93On2zUUknuMwGoKyMz/w +Yag2lC4PVwmYRdv2eyreFnf4pIEmjngImxldm1u1j2WQ9r2oV+/tImIdlALpVHHeTGo w/LelXldPCcAN7Zv567gujDqG+Jv7ePU9P1dM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=gZEdvhzUkTuChP75wKTWCsXNJWdNzZi2lKkssHE6lPR5RTTnzHuG0xnwI4UCdykmHn ei14dOVtUpkyJdK1mUgmfh4M/Ysdry8lZnm4XsTwCjF+21MHeyHrMFBym/VM25BHKqGN 1+cYpkjZpCy2MDFBsjN1QUDA1I2DXWhvaUdC8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr10127585ybn.232.1241996813924; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:06:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> References: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:06:53 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: a45ecb93de4016be Message-ID: <8158ad750905101606h1e4ddb07oa38726b7d0ae6afb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Best current practice for collection discovery From: Peter Keane To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: Atom Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > > Hi folks, > > When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we frequently > encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through its public > URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of whether > new items can be added to them. > > Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known AtomPub server, > then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing with > specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure this out. > The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided only a feed > URL have no way of figuring this out. > > There are two alternatives: > 1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=service" but that tends to not > be present on any of the feeds we see. > 2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: collection > element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism is very > useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if so, how it > may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there are far > too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as where an > implementation does not use AtomPub service documents. > Hi Nikunj- I like (2) for the reasons you mention here -- seems to make good sense. That said, rel=service seems cleaner somehow (perhaps more loosely coupled?), but does, of course, require more round-trips. One benefit of rel=service is that it could be easily be included in an HTML representation (pointing to a service doc for a blog, say). Also, it seems that link@rel=service could appear under atom:entry to indicate where client can post siblings to current entry (I could be wrong on that assumption...). Anyway, I don't have a very strong preference otherwise. --peter > We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to allow those > starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear > implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being used in > the wild. > > Nikunj > o-micron.blogspot.com > > [1] http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00.txt > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon May 11 08:54:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A5F3A6E3E for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AHNMCs2Ss31a for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2223A6F46 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BFlRtQ071490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4BFlRWR071488; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.246]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BFlBAh071460; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so2285227ana.4 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QgU93jRyuR/SNmeeQz4j3c+E5Vmmsi1xWvsQf8wWR08=; b=lpwokG/lifL0AxHLbykJU+X5twwy60jU1h8Y8YVcmIbr2JSADXQiINxiJKsRYPNFOu X+Qf76JTTkbsskwFG4Ww0lmC3xOH+QneA+cdKPkCvLQSTULUy2w4tTP3PLP8Ywzqhwh5 7iyAavuuh+rN3vWr6QSH9CVNaxzk552qv7JOg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fmw62WwrpzTrRyMazY+f8sKPKSKNt7pMqrLvq6LYzvtqCKO0TmXLpirxyi5LOLZVSx AE2Rw33zWpr4v+zXUbsvjLGc5zlAQN0kNNPodyqoEHC1cXUmoOTcBPWxKWV7IMo5erZw FZUjfmiIyMREpAI6SiJ/u0qb7CqeXm9ZonA0M= Received: by 10.100.229.12 with SMTP id b12mr17571059anh.26.1242056829958; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.102? (c-98-224-93-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.224.93.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d29sm17090038and.18.2009.05.11.08.47.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A084875.7070105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 08:47:01 -0700 From: James M Snell User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Keane CC: Nikunj Mehta , Atom Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Subject: Re: Best current practice for collection discovery References: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> <8158ad750905101606h1e4ddb07oa38726b7d0ae6afb@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8158ad750905101606h1e4ddb07oa38726b7d0ae6afb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I came up with rel="service" mostly for use with html link tags in order to bootstrap the discovery of Atompub service documents. It can be used with atom:link elements but it doesn't provide enough information by itself to be a complete solution. Putting app:collection in atom:feed or atom:entry (both of which we've done in parts of the Lotus Connections implementation) provide the additional bits of information necessary for a client to do what it needs to do. Both approaches have their benefits and we've used both. - James Peter Keane wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we frequently >> encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through its public >> URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of whether >> new items can be added to them. >> >> Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known AtomPub server, >> then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing with >> specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure this out. >> The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided only a feed >> URL have no way of figuring this out. >> >> There are two alternatives: >> 1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=service" but that tends to not >> be present on any of the feeds we see. >> 2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: collection >> element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism is very >> useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if so, how it >> may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there are far >> too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as where an >> implementation does not use AtomPub service documents. >> >> > > Hi Nikunj- > > I like (2) for the reasons you mention here -- seems to make good > sense. That said, rel=service seems cleaner somehow (perhaps more > loosely coupled?), but does, of course, require more round-trips. One > benefit of rel=service is that it could be easily be included in an > HTML representation (pointing to a service doc for a blog, say). > Also, it seems that link@rel=service could appear under atom:entry to > indicate where client can post siblings to current entry (I could be > wrong on that assumption...). > > Anyway, I don't have a very strong preference otherwise. > > --peter > > >> We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to allow those >> starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear >> implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being used in >> the wild. >> >> Nikunj >> o-micron.blogspot.com >> >> [1] http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00.txt >> >> >> > > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon May 11 09:27:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0813A6B28 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:27:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.688 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.688 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.310, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3IzLNpgIXUOn for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA39E3A68DC for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BGLB3E074352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 May 2009 09:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4BGLBuS074350; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BGKxG2074324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2009 09:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4BGKp8S011695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2009 16:20:52 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4BGLL6f005786; Mon, 11 May 2009 16:21:22 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:20:54 -0700 Cc: Peter Keane , Atom Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Message-Id: <19CB0FD9-4BBF-410D-A58A-50FDF2EDC1B8@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: James M Snell In-Reply-To: <4A084875.7070105@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Best current practice for collection discovery Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:19:44 -0700 References: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> <8158ad750905101606h1e4ddb07oa38726b7d0ae6afb@mail.gmail.com> <4A084875.7070105@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010205.4A085067.00FB:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks James. Per 8.3.5 of RFC 5023 there is no meaning ascribed to putting app:collection in atom:entry documents. So I am not sure it has any standard interpretation at the moment. Nikunj On May 11, 2009, at 8:47 AM, James M Snell wrote: > I came up with rel="service" mostly for use with html link tags in > order to bootstrap the discovery of Atompub service documents. It > can be used with atom:link elements but it doesn't provide enough > information by itself to be a complete solution. Putting > app:collection in atom:feed or atom:entry (both of which we've done > in parts of the Lotus Connections implementation) provide the > additional bits of information necessary for a client to do what it > needs to do. Both approaches have their benefits and we've used both. > > - James > > Peter Keane wrote: >> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Nikunj Mehta >> wrote: >> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we >>> frequently >>> encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through >>> its public >>> URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of >>> whether >>> new items can be added to them. >>> >>> Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known >>> AtomPub server, >>> then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing >>> with >>> specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure >>> this out. >>> The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided >>> only a feed >>> URL have no way of figuring this out. >>> >>> There are two alternatives: >>> 1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=service" but that >>> tends to not >>> be present on any of the feeds we see. >>> 2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: >>> collection >>> element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism >>> is very >>> useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if >>> so, how it >>> may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there >>> are far >>> too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as >>> where an >>> implementation does not use AtomPub service documents. >>> >>> >> >> Hi Nikunj- >> >> I like (2) for the reasons you mention here -- seems to make good >> sense. That said, rel=service seems cleaner somehow (perhaps more >> loosely coupled?), but does, of course, require more round-trips. >> One >> benefit of rel=service is that it could be easily be included in an >> HTML representation (pointing to a service doc for a blog, say). >> Also, it seems that link@rel=service could appear under atom:entry to >> indicate where client can post siblings to current entry (I could be >> wrong on that assumption...). >> >> Anyway, I don't have a very strong preference otherwise. >> >> --peter >> >> >>> We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to >>> allow those >>> starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear >>> implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being >>> used in >>> the wild. >>> >>> Nikunj >>> o-micron.blogspot.com >>> >>> [1] http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00.txt >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> --Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=oracle_sig_logo.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="oracle_sig_logo.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhcgAaAMQAAP8QEP/w8P/Q0P/g4P8wMP9gYP8gIP+goP9QUP+QkP+wsP9wcP+AgP9AQP/A wP8AAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAByABoAAAX/ICSOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdC0GCqPvvBKUDp5wp1gFdIPVIDfcOQa6A8yR aO4gweQoUHh4v2Bw4SdihM9egyBF8ALIpkEXDR44vA2XwkD/IgYGAAZbbX1nBGRmhl8AWiUJYicC AIsPDFh4LXOGjQ4NAAhrEIUPBQcOqKmoB5sEZV4JqqoHhQVxlGAOJQG4AAunsqg/dw95KwdfBgzB qKIEBMaQDwCiKpOwEIq6KANuJg14igZwEHPULMTGKbxetjF8D1ItxK7aKl8lCl8DAfALW1+2rUi3 QtqgGN2mwYCXzYvAON624LoEQZ9DEfRcEFSBIE2DjyBDfnyIqRgMcA8a/z5AZQWXOxEdHxwUgfIg sX/zMqlAWclVCQFefLpAqdJBAFJn3owgtpJEQkslEWjUmYLnomokcDlS4s0eFzQNqvXDEyzmAwFP yaXYmGJBuxlzELWIacueiE0AFGyF4HbaNTquUEpFRxUFUC9YXQzARYAkEJSNipKQ9kDu0i9SKKNZ 9iXswMIoYgI4oJYFskpgzkkmcdrviELqmPVt1HpRAaaLqCE1lBgjvEpqRtgl8Tevygd7TcCuiKvP m8OVEkAIYLYPThSsRIpEQJr1x94QBIT09FH6QJC6AiRAoB1kEb7tRb4MvyB+AwSlbejfz7+///8A BijggAQWaOCBCCao4A+CDDbo4IMQRijhhBQKGAIAOw== --Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com Oracle Advanced Development Projects 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 --Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=green-for-email-sig_0.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="green-for-email-sig_0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhLAAcAMQAAP///0x9RHmec9Pf0aa+oleFULHGrmKNW+nv6I+uivT39N7n3W6VZ7zPuZu2 lsjXxYSmfwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAsABwAQAXhICCOZGmeaDoaReC+sKAMR7GopIA6boIvLgPAVSAgALxjSYdrOp/Q6NPg YqIEPkTBV2taTwgGbEw+PAZo3FfKbqMQQfeJ8DoY0Hg0wxhAKBgHCl5XLgMqDwFCAAIFPIYDgidr OUQGkSh0cQMJAQyXOXKhoqOkpaanI2aoIwMErq+uCY0BMlANKpxkYwQGBH82TpMicD0pAgQACToD AchqhAG3KQ4HIlQNnErG0IYqB9EAiEQvwEsozC43hy0CAeXMwsLDLS8MAvf497ruCZ+gOA0gfNt3 AIK0J/JWKVzIsEQIADs= --Apple-Mail-107--388903660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment --Apple-Mail-107--388903660-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon May 11 09:43:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA2A3A695B for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:43:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0DwGXg3I36+p for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB813A6850 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BGckRt075721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 May 2009 09:38:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4BGckHP075719; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:38:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-fx0-f177.google.com (mail-fx0-f177.google.com [209.85.220.177]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4BGcYif075698; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:38:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com) Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so2837581fxm.10 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.133.77 with SMTP id 13mr567243hbu.67.1242059913110; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19CB0FD9-4BBF-410D-A58A-50FDF2EDC1B8@oracle.com> References: <55BDBCEF-CA6A-4C78-9162-EC8743F2CF2D@oracle.com> <8158ad750905101606h1e4ddb07oa38726b7d0ae6afb@mail.gmail.com> <4A084875.7070105@gmail.com> <19CB0FD9-4BBF-410D-A58A-50FDF2EDC1B8@oracle.com> From: Hadrien Gardeur Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:38:13 +0200 Message-ID: <404dcbd20905110938s738a900cj34b3d453b48edbf4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Best current practice for collection discovery To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: James M Snell , Peter Keane , Atom Syntax , atom-protocol Protocol Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f7cc72e926bc0469a59b70 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --001485f7cc72e926bc0469a59b70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Correct, no standard interpretation for this at the moment, but it's a pretty common solution to this problem (seen in several presentation about the limits of AtomPub). I use rel="service" currently for auto-discovery of AtomPub Service Document in HTML link tags too. If we extend feeds and enable them to describe collections too, should we use rel="service" for these feeds or limit this rel value strictly to service documents ? 2009/5/11 Nikunj Mehta > Thanks James. > > Per 8.3.5 of RFC 5023 there is no meaning ascribed to putting > app:collection in atom:entry documents. So I am not sure it has any standard > interpretation at the moment. > > Nikunj > > On May 11, 2009, at 8:47 AM, James M Snell wrote: > > I came up with rel="service" mostly for use with html link tags in order >> to bootstrap the discovery of Atompub service documents. It can be used >> with atom:link elements but it doesn't provide enough information by itself >> to be a complete solution. Putting app:collection in atom:feed or >> atom:entry (both of which we've done in parts of the Lotus Connections >> implementation) provide the additional bits of information necessary for a >> client to do what it needs to do. Both approaches have their benefits and >> we've used both. >> >> - James >> >> Peter Keane wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Nikunj Mehta >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we frequently >>>> encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through its >>>> public >>>> URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of >>>> whether >>>> new items can be added to them. >>>> >>>> Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known AtomPub >>>> server, >>>> then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing with >>>> specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure this >>>> out. >>>> The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided only a >>>> feed >>>> URL have no way of figuring this out. >>>> >>>> There are two alternatives: >>>> 1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=service" but that tends to >>>> not >>>> be present on any of the feeds we see. >>>> 2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: >>>> collection >>>> element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism is >>>> very >>>> useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if so, >>>> how it >>>> may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there are >>>> far >>>> too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as where >>>> an >>>> implementation does not use AtomPub service documents. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Hi Nikunj- >>> >>> I like (2) for the reasons you mention here -- seems to make good >>> sense. That said, rel=service seems cleaner somehow (perhaps more >>> loosely coupled?), but does, of course, require more round-trips. One >>> benefit of rel=service is that it could be easily be included in an >>> HTML representation (pointing to a service doc for a blog, say). >>> Also, it seems that link@rel=service could appear under atom:entry to >>> indicate where client can post siblings to current entry (I could be >>> wrong on that assumption...). >>> >>> Anyway, I don't have a very strong preference otherwise. >>> >>> --peter >>> >>> >>> We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to allow >>>> those >>>> starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear >>>> implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being used >>>> in >>>> the wild. >>>> >>>> Nikunj >>>> o-micron.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 > 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com > Oracle Advanced Development Projects > 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > > Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect > the environment > > > -- Hadrien GARDEUR http://www.feedbooks.com - Co-Founder Cell: +33 (0)6.63.28.59.69 http://twitter.com/Hadrien --001485f7cc72e926bc0469a59b70 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correct, no standard interpretation for this at the moment, but it's a = pretty common solution to this problem (seen in several presentation about = the limits of AtomPub).

I use rel=3D"service" = currently for auto-discovery of AtomPub Service Document in HTML link tags = too. If we extend feeds and enable them to describe collections too, should= we use rel=3D"service" for these feeds or limit this rel value s= trictly to service documents ?

2009/5/11 Nikunj Mehta <nikunj.mehta@oracle.com>
Thanks James.

Per 8.3.5 of RFC 5023 there is no meaning ascribed to putting app:collectio= n in atom:entry documents. So I am not sure it has any standard interpretat= ion at the moment.

Nikunj

On May 11, 2009, at 8:47 AM, James M Snell wrote:

I came up with rel=3D"service" mostly for use with html link tags= in order to bootstrap the discovery of Atompub service documents. =C2=A0It= can be used with atom:link elements but it doesn't provide enough info= rmation by itself to be a complete solution. =C2=A0Putting app:collection i= n atom:feed or atom:entry (both of which we've done in parts of the Lot= us Connections implementation) provide the additional bits of information n= ecessary for a client to do what it needs to do. Both approaches have their= benefits and we've used both.

- James

Peter Keane wrote:
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Nikunj Mehta <nikunj.mehta@oracle.com> wrote:
Hi folks,

When working with data synchronization using Atom feeds, we frequently
encounter situations where we learn about a feed simply through its public<= br> URL. However, most feed documents do not provide any indication of whether<= br> new items can be added to them.

Some assume that if a feed is generated from some well known AtomPub server= ,
then it must be modifiable. Of course, specialized clients dealing with
specific feeds can always use out-of-band communication to figure this out.=
The problem is that standard AtomPub clients that are provided only a feed<= br> URL have no way of figuring this out.

There are two alternatives:
1. James Snell has suggested the use of "rel=3Dservice" but that = tends to not
be present on any of the feeds we see.
2. Section 8.3.5 of [RFC5023] specifies the semantics of an app: collection=
element appearing as a child of atom:feed element. This mechanism is very useful to us for discovering whether a feed is modifiable and, if so, how i= t
may be modified using AtomPub. It helps in situations where there are far too many feeds to be enumerated in a service document as well as where an implementation does not use AtomPub service documents.



Hi Nikunj-

I like (2) for the reasons you mention here -- seems to make good
sense. =C2=A0That said, rel=3Dservice seems cleaner somehow (perhaps more loosely coupled?), but does, of course, require more round-trips. =C2=A0One=
benefit of rel=3Dservice is that it could be easily be included in an
HTML representation (pointing to a service doc for a blog, say).
Also, it seems that link@rel=3Dservice could appear under atom:entry to
indicate where client can post siblings to current entry (I could be
wrong on that assumption...).

Anyway, I don't have a very strong preference otherwise.

--peter


We have added (2) to the hierarchy-ID [1] as a best practice to allow those=
starting without an AtomPub service document. I would love to hear
implementation experience vis-a-vis (1) and other practices being used in the wild.

Nikunj
o-micron.blogspo= t.com

[1] http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly= -atompub-hierarchy-00.txt









Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0= 679 | Blog: http= ://o-micron.blogspot.com
Oracle Advanced Development Projects
500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065

=C2=A0Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that hel= p protect the environment





--
Hadrien GARDEUR
= http://www.feedbooks.com - Co-Foun= der
Cell: +33 (0)6.63.28.59.69
http://twitter.com/Hadrien
--001485f7cc72e926bc0469a59b70-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 12 03:32:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED9C3A6965 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 03:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.028 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.028 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.429, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kxPN0G1oLqzI for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC993A6C9B for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 03:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4CAKlc9032603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2009 03:20:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4CAKlNS032601; Tue, 12 May 2009 03:20:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4CAKYYP032581 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 03:20:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 May 2009 10:20:34 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp030) with SMTP; 12 May 2009 12:20:34 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18hnaE7eaEhpT1cCiKjhd1f1WZgTOhStWmDhHyvDw W3yNE2cYPrasx6 Message-ID: <4A094D70.6010801@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:20:32 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom Syntax Subject: Hierarchy / Containment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.58 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi, I have to admit that I haven't looked closely yet at the various proposals to map collections to the Atom Feed Format (Nikunj's draft, and the CMIS spec). But maybe that's a good thing, because I have the feeling that both proposals make things more complicated then they really should be for simple cases (of course I may be missing something important, in which you'll tell me :-). So, what containment are we talking about? - The containment model people are most familiar with is the file system tree, with files and folders, and hierarchical naming. - Many systems allow multiple containment, by supporting aliasing (hard links in POSIX, additional bindings in WebDAV (). - Systems that do not support hierarchical names, or which do support multiple containment, will need an explicit way to find the parents of a resource (otherwise the implicit containment based on the path names is sufficient). So, what's needed to map this to Atom, starting with just the format (read-only access)? 1) A way to discover that an Atom entry represents a collection ("contains" other entries). 2) A way to discover the contents of a collection. 3) Discover the collection(s) that contain a given Atom entry. A naive approach would be this (deliberately using new relation names for now): 1) An atom entry with an atom:link/@rel=contains element is a collection; for Atom, that would link to a feed resource. 2) The entries of the feed identified above. 3) Exposed by atom:link/@rel=containedby element in the feed or entry element. Does it really need to be more complicated than that? BR, Julian From resuppliede84@oreilly.com Tue May 12 10:45:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9BA3A6D96; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.354 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.354 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_CPE=0.5, HOST_EQ_CPE=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_GREY=0.25, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mouRgaTST42R; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CPE-65-29-17-45.wi.res.rr.com (CPE-65-29-17-45.wi.res.rr.com [65.29.17.45]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473393A6D92; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c9d329$93075160$6400a8c0@resuppliede84> From: "Donn Henry" To: Subject: A real male in bed is all the time ready. Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:46:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9D329.93075160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9D329.93075160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =09 =09 =09 =09 =20 =20 =09 =09 =09 About this mailing:=20 You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers= Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN F= eatured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will= not unsubscribe=20 you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear= in MSN Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9D329.93075160-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 12 11:39:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DCB3A6BAA for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:39:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.955, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8CAwsjX7DhW2 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5033A6E49 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4CITlVD072820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 May 2009 11:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4CITl5u072819; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4CITaKK072801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4CIToDg001298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 May 2009 18:29:52 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4CITsnZ013629; Tue, 12 May 2009 18:29:54 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 12 May 2009 11:29:25 -0700 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: From: Nikunj Mehta To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A094D70.6010801@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Hierarchy / Containment Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:28:14 -0700 References: <4A094D70.6010801@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A09020B.4A09C006.00C5:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Julian, Your analysis of requirements is pretty good, although I would add some things to make it complete. On May 12, 2009, at 3:20 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > > Hi, > > I have to admit that I haven't looked closely yet at the various > proposals to map collections to the Atom Feed Format (Nikunj's > draft, and the CMIS spec). But maybe that's a good thing, because I > have the feeling that both proposals make things more complicated > then they really should be for simple cases (of course I may be > missing something important, in which you'll tell me :-). > Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder - hierarchy-ID only defines two new values for rel and one new attribute (with two possible values) to go on an existing AtomPub element. It just restates a few unclear parts of the AtomPub spec for discovering collections from feeds which is painful if using service documents. > So, what containment are we talking about? > I am glad we are beginning to talk about "containment" as that is a new aspect we are all trying to add to Atom/AtomPub. > - The containment model people are most familiar with is the file > system tree, with files and folders, and hierarchical naming. > > - Many systems allow multiple containment, by supporting aliasing > (hard links in POSIX, additional bindings in WebDAV ( >). Some systems deal with multiple children types as well. CMIS shows a good number of such examples where a single folder entry can have children of four different kinds - policies, relationships, documents, and descendants [1]. In another example, a Netflix title entry can have children of 7 different kinds - awards, directors, cast, screen formats, episodes, seasons, languages [2]. Each different kind leads to its own feed/collection. > > - Systems that do not support hierarchical names, or which do > support multiple containment, will need an explicit way to find the > parents of a resource (otherwise the implicit containment based on > the path names is sufficient). No assumption can be made regarding namespaces in AtomPub as that is managed by the server. A client cannot be constructing new URLs using formulaic techniques. > > So, what's needed to map this to Atom, starting with just the format > (read-only access)? > > 1) A way to discover that an Atom entry represents a collection > ("contains" other entries). > > 2) A way to discover the contents of a collection. > > 3) Discover the collection(s) that contain a given Atom entry. > > A naive approach would be this (deliberately using new relation > names for now): > > 1) An atom entry with an atom:link/@rel=contains element is a > collection; for Atom, that would link to a feed resource. > > 2) The entries of the feed identified above. > > 3) Exposed by atom:link/@rel=containedby element in the feed or > entry element. > > Does it really need to be more complicated than that? If you are interested in read-write access, then additional requirements are: 1. How do you discover the collection from a feed? 2. Some collections accept only "entries that represent a collection", some disallow such entries, and yet others don't place any such restrictions. 3. What is the meaning of DELETEing an "entry that represents a collection", especially when its entries may be hard-linked in to other such entries? [1] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32171/ [2] http://developer.netflix.com/docs/REST_API_Conventions From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 05:19:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1AB3A6E7A for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:19:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.404, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id arU5rS8-TRWq for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5973A6D12 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DCBsvW039277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 05:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DCBsbL039276; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:11:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4DCBgmC039254 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 05:11:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 May 2009 12:11:40 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 13 May 2009 14:11:40 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19+B1QdCwJ+M/CecXpe6yCEiE6JITE9R1fWdxrQBo 4cE47QaMzAWUWE Message-ID: <4A0AB8F8.9040805@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:11:36 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikunj Mehta CC: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Hierarchy / Containment References: <4A094D70.6010801@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.53 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Nikunj, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > ... > Some systems deal with multiple children types as well. CMIS shows a > good number of such examples where a single folder entry can have > children of four different kinds - policies, relationships, documents, > and descendants [1]. In another example, a Netflix title entry can have > children of 7 different kinds - awards, directors, cast, screen formats, > episodes, seasons, languages [2]. Each different kind leads to its own > feed/collection. Understood. Many systems deal with this by putting all children into the same container, and just distinguish by MIME type. Or my assigning subfolders. So does this require multiple *different* children feeds? >> - Systems that do not support hierarchical names, or which do support >> multiple containment, will need an explicit way to find the parents of >> a resource (otherwise the implicit containment based on the path names >> is sufficient). > > No assumption can be made regarding namespaces in AtomPub as that is > managed by the server. A client cannot be constructing new URLs using > formulaic techniques. Indeed. I just wanted to clarify that this is the main difference from a filesystem's (or WebDAV's) containment model. > If you are interested in read-write access, then additional requirements > are: > > 1. How do you discover the collection from a feed? > 2. Some collections accept only "entries that represent a collection", > some disallow such entries, and yet others don't place any such > restrictions. > 3. What is the meaning of DELETEing an "entry that represents a > collection", especially when its entries may be hard-linked in to other > such entries? > ... DELETE as specified in HTTP/1.1 (RFC 2616) really leaves this open. WebDAV (RFC 4918) defines a specific hierarchical containment model, but still leaves this to the server. WebDAV BIND () introduces the necessary terminology for this, and clarifies that DELETEing something from a collection will not affect other paths to the resource (as long as these are really distinct paths). BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 09:31:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFD13A6B77 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:31:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.962 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.962 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.637, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n6U14sVsEcTn for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB2B3A6A42 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DGNS5G061265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 09:23:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DGNS3I061263; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:23:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DGNGHE061242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:23:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DGN3Am021512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 May 2009 16:23:04 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DGNf00029081; Wed, 13 May 2009 16:23:41 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 May 2009 09:23:11 -0700 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: <8A2AD98B-E17F-4706-85DD-632250D207C1@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A0AB8F8.9040805@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Hierarchy / Containment Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:21:59 -0700 References: <4A094D70.6010801@gmx.de> <4A0AB8F8.9040805@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010202.4A0AF3EF.0316:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 13, 2009, at 5:11 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Hi Nikunj, > > Nikunj Mehta wrote: >> ... >> Some systems deal with multiple children types as well. CMIS shows >> a good number of such examples where a single folder entry can have >> children of four different kinds - policies, relationships, >> documents, and descendants [1]. In another example, a Netflix title >> entry can have children of 7 different kinds - awards, directors, >> cast, screen formats, episodes, seasons, languages [2]. Each >> different kind leads to its own feed/collection. > > Understood. > > Many systems deal with this by putting all children into the same > container, and just distinguish by MIME type. Or my assigning > subfolders. > > So does this require multiple *different* children feeds? Both examples I gave here indeed require 'different' feeds. CMIS identifies each feed through a separate link rel value and a distinct href. Netflix does not provide an out of line feed, but houses each subfolder in a separate foreign markup element. > >>> - Systems that do not support hierarchical names, or which do >>> support multiple containment, will need an explicit way to find >>> the parents of a resource (otherwise the implicit containment >>> based on the path names is sufficient). >> No assumption can be made regarding namespaces in AtomPub as that >> is managed by the server. A client cannot be constructing new URLs >> using formulaic techniques. > > Indeed. I just wanted to clarify that this is the main difference > from a filesystem's (or WebDAV's) containment model. > >> If you are interested in read-write access, then additional >> requirements are: >> 1. How do you discover the collection from a feed? >> 2. Some collections accept only "entries that represent a >> collection", some disallow such entries, and yet others don't place >> any such restrictions. >> 3. What is the meaning of DELETEing an "entry that represents a >> collection", especially when its entries may be hard-linked in to >> other such entries? >> ... > > DELETE as specified in HTTP/1.1 (RFC 2616) really leaves this open. > > WebDAV (RFC 4918) defines a specific hierarchical containment model, > but still leaves this to the server. WebDAV BIND ( >) introduces the necessary terminology for this, and clarifies that > DELETEing something from a collection will not affect other paths to > the resource (as long as these are really distinct paths). Atom doesn't currently define any such model and namespace decisions are server's decision. Doesn't that lead to interoperability problems? From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 11:48:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144D028C22B for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:48:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OorWXDwgvapt for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF29528C22E for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DIej83071957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 11:40:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DIeja6071956; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:40:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DIeixm071945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:40:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DIeV3M002420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 18:40:33 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DIeg9d017242 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 18:40:42 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:40:39 -0700 Message-Id: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Atom Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:39:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010206.4A0B1428.0068:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: One of the challenges facing client developers, including us, is the limitless proliferation of rel values for atom:link. The problem is that everyone abuses the rel value mechanisms of atom:link. While we shouldn't attempt to stop this, where new public standards are being created we ought to act more prudently. Specifically, I suggest that new standard rel values be used for introducing new features in Atom's data model. For example, dealing with hierarchy/containment requires the use of new rel values because using any other value will completely trash the existing definition of that value. On the other hand, applications may use Atom's category term attribute to ascribe computer-readable meaning to the specific link. For example, CMIS shows a good number of such examples where a single folder entry can have children of four different kinds - policies, relationships, documents, and descendants [1]. The IETF should not blindly register new link relation values for each of these types of children. Instead, the IETF should exhaust existing link relations or see if there is a need for a new general purpose link relation value. This way, the new value will have uses far beyond the specific application introducing that value. As an example, consider the following solution to the CMIS requirement where I am using hierarchy-ID's rel=detail and rel=related: A folder entry ... ... John Doe From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 12:13:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22AB3A6DCB for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.913, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jflgKxutmgaX for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11D53A6D91 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DJ5qd0073897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DJ5qUU073893; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4DJ5cdD073872 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 May 2009 19:05:36 -0000 Received: from p508FC154.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.193.84] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 13 May 2009 21:05:36 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1NWBK34n12aNpWdGsYo31d2Hc4a1e+3km84JxeD aHGi7PqkKDd1dL Message-ID: <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:05:02 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikunj Mehta CC: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.68 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nikunj Mehta wrote: > ... > On the other hand, applications may use Atom's category term attribute > to ascribe computer-readable meaning to the specific link. For example, > CMIS shows a good number of such examples where a single folder entry > can have children of four different kinds - policies, relationships, > documents, and descendants [1]. > ... As far as I can tell, @term is only allowed on atom:category? Are you proposing to change that? If so: -1 -- we shouldn't introduce a new dimension on links; the name of the relation plus the link target (media type, XML namespace, whatnot) should be sufficient. BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 12:14:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BF53A6ED9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.787 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.787 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.808, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VEhwgIFAh+yf for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CD43A6FE9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DJ5tit073903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DJ5tmM073902; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DJ5dQn073874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DJ61XR003567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 19:06:03 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com (abhmt004.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DJ5cm5009979 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 19:05:38 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:35 -0700 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: <7409C7AD-8D76-4C26-98FE-EA81869EA9F6@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Nikunj Mehta In-Reply-To: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:04:22 -0700 References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt004.oracle.com [141.146.116.13] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010206.4A0B1A00.01D8:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As Julian pointed out on my blog, I can't use Atom's term attribute on atom:link. This changes the example below (r/term/h:kind, a new attribute), but does not alter the principle I am espousing. Nikunj On May 13, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > > One of the challenges facing client developers, including us, is the > limitless proliferation of rel values for atom:link. The problem is > that everyone abuses the rel value mechanisms of atom:link. While we > shouldn't attempt to stop this, where new public standards are being > created we ought to act more prudently. > > Specifically, I suggest that new standard rel values be used for > introducing new features in Atom's data model. For example, dealing > with hierarchy/containment requires the use of new rel values > because using any other value will completely trash the existing > definition of that value. > > On the other hand, applications may use Atom's category term > attribute to ascribe computer-readable meaning to the specific link. > For example, CMIS shows a good number of such examples where a > single folder entry can have children of four different kinds - > policies, relationships, documents, and descendants [1]. > > The IETF should not blindly register new link relation values for > each of these types of children. Instead, the IETF should exhaust > existing link relations or see if there is a need for a new general > purpose link relation value. This way, the new value will have uses > far beyond the specific application introducing that value. > > As an example, consider the following solution to the CMIS > requirement where I am using hierarchy-ID's rel=detail and > rel=related: > > A folder entry > ... > ... > John Doe > > > > > title="Folder children collection" > href="/folder;contents/" term="http://www.oasis-open.org/cmis#contents > "/> > title="Folder relationships collection" > href="/folder;relationships/" term="http://www.oasis-open.org/cmis#relationships > "/> > title="Folder policy collection" > href="/folder;policies/" term="http://www.oasis-open.org/cmis#descendants > "/> > title="Folder descendants feed" > href="/folder;descendants/" term="http://www.oasis-open.org/cmis#descendants > "> > > --Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=oracle_sig_logo.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="oracle_sig_logo.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhcgAaAMQAAP8QEP/w8P/Q0P/g4P8wMP9gYP8gIP+goP9QUP+QkP+wsP9wcP+AgP9AQP/A wP8AAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAByABoAAAX/ICSOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdC0GCqPvvBKUDp5wp1gFdIPVIDfcOQa6A8yR aO4gweQoUHh4v2Bw4SdihM9egyBF8ALIpkEXDR44vA2XwkD/IgYGAAZbbX1nBGRmhl8AWiUJYicC AIsPDFh4LXOGjQ4NAAhrEIUPBQcOqKmoB5sEZV4JqqoHhQVxlGAOJQG4AAunsqg/dw95KwdfBgzB qKIEBMaQDwCiKpOwEIq6KANuJg14igZwEHPULMTGKbxetjF8D1ItxK7aKl8lCl8DAfALW1+2rUi3 QtqgGN2mwYCXzYvAON624LoEQZ9DEfRcEFSBIE2DjyBDfnyIqRgMcA8a/z5AZQWXOxEdHxwUgfIg sX/zMqlAWclVCQFefLpAqdJBAFJn3owgtpJEQkslEWjUmYLnomokcDlS4s0eFzQNqvXDEyzmAwFP yaXYmGJBuxlzELWIacueiE0AFGyF4HbaNTquUEpFRxUFUC9YXQzARYAkEJSNipKQ9kDu0i9SKKNZ 9iXswMIoYgI4oJYFskpgzkkmcdrviELqmPVt1HpRAaaLqCE1lBgjvEpqRtgl8Tevygd7TcCuiKvP m8OVEkAIYLYPThSsRIpEQJr1x94QBIT09FH6QJC6AiRAoB1kEb7tRb4MvyB+AwSlbejfz7+///8A BijggAQWaOCBCCao4A+CDDbo4IMQRijhhBQKGAIAOw== --Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com Oracle Advanced Development Projects 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 --Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=green-for-email-sig_0.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="green-for-email-sig_0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhLAAcAMQAAP///0x9RHmec9Pf0aa+oleFULHGrmKNW+nv6I+uivT39N7n3W6VZ7zPuZu2 lsjXxYSmfwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAsABwAQAXhICCOZGmeaDoaReC+sKAMR7GopIA6boIvLgPAVSAgALxjSYdrOp/Q6NPg YqIEPkTBV2taTwgGbEw+PAZo3FfKbqMQQfeJ8DoY0Hg0wxhAKBgHCl5XLgMqDwFCAAIFPIYDgidr OUQGkSh0cQMJAQyXOXKhoqOkpaanI2aoIwMErq+uCY0BMlANKpxkYwQGBH82TpMicD0pAgQACToD AchqhAG3KQ4HIlQNnErG0IYqB9EAiEQvwEsozC43hy0CAeXMwsLDLS8MAvf497ruCZ+gOA0gfNt3 AIK0J/JWKVzIsEQIADs= --Apple-Mail-259--206225761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment --Apple-Mail-259--206225761-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 12:46:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17DF428C237 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:46:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.362 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iuuTlC6-kRjq for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712A128C224 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DJOMY5075424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 12:24:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DJOLPp075423; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:24:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DJOAB6075407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:24:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DJNug7017205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 May 2009 19:23:58 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DJOZoo029630; Wed, 13 May 2009 19:24:35 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/141.144.168.209) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 May 2009 12:24:04 -0700 Cc: Atom Syntax Message-Id: From: Nikunj Mehta To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:22:50 -0700 References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010205.4A0B1E55.021B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 13, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Nikunj Mehta wrote: >> ... >> On the other hand, applications may use Atom's category term >> attribute to ascribe computer-readable meaning to the specific >> link. For example, CMIS shows a good number of such examples where >> a single folder entry can have children of four different kinds - >> policies, relationships, documents, and descendants [1]. >> ... > > As far as I can tell, @term is only allowed on atom:category? Are > you proposing to change that? > No I am not > If so: -1 -- we shouldn't introduce a new dimension on links; the > name of the relation plus the link target (media type, XML > namespace, whatnot) should be sufficient. Intermediaries such as libraries, synchronization tools, and aggregators won't understand 10,000 new link relations that every vendor dealing with AtomPub is currently producing. IMHO, the rel value should be understandable to intermediaries not only end points. How is introducing another dimension for application-specified text worse than creating a huge number of non-standard rel values? It doesn't break any existing clients or servers. We have encountered this issue while building synchronization tools, but I suspect similar issues crop up for other intermediaries too. Nikunj From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 13:23:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F8A3A6DFF for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:23:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMqoczT+MkNw for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9723A6F01 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DKEjCO079353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DKEjrA079352; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.174]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DKEYua079321 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mart@degeneration.co.uk) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so519981wfc.28 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.144.9 with SMTP id r9mr515910wfd.91.1242245674036; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.64.79? ([204.9.180.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 29sm904853wfg.8.2009.05.13.13.14.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A0B2A27.1030406@degeneration.co.uk> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:14:31 -0700 From: Martin Atkins Reply-To: Atom Syntax User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090318) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom Syntax Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nikunj Mehta wrote: > > Intermediaries such as libraries, synchronization tools, and aggregators > won't understand 10,000 new link relations that every vendor dealing > with AtomPub is currently producing. IMHO, the rel value should be > understandable to intermediaries not only end points. > If an intermediary is Atom-generic then it should not be attempting to understand link relations. A library would ideally provide an interface to retrieve links by (rel, type) pair, possibly also allowing constraining by hreflang. The meaning of specific values of rel is for endpoints to determine, not intermediaries. Intermediaries should just be concerned with getting the data from A to B without loss of meaning. > How is introducing another dimension for application-specified text > worse than creating a huge number of non-standard rel values? It doesn't > break any existing clients or servers. > Adding a new attribute to link seems likely to break more intermediaries than adding new rel values. Existing libraries will likely not provide a convenient means to access the new attribute, and entry re-publishing systems may drop the new attribute on the floor when the entry round-trips through their data model. However, I do agree with your general principle that new link relationships should be generic and not specific to a given application. rel and type are two orthogonal dimensions that should be considered together by applications. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 14:02:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013D93A6F04 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 14:02:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.667 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.667 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPkfNDoWIslY for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 14:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B187C3A6CFA for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 14:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DKuuFT082954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 13:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4DKuuYw082953; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4DKuj0x082929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DKubm1012100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:56:39 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com (abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4DKuixN008577 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:56:45 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.195] (/24.130.214.77) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:56:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1F243D47-4813-49E6-BE1F-854E334D3CBE@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Atom Syntax In-Reply-To: <4A0B2A27.1030406@degeneration.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:55:28 -0700 References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> <4A0B2A27.1030406@degeneration.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010207.4A0B340A.01AD:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 13, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Martin Atkins wrote: > > Nikunj Mehta wrote: >> Intermediaries such as libraries, synchronization tools, and >> aggregators won't understand 10,000 new link relations that every >> vendor dealing with AtomPub is currently producing. IMHO, the rel >> value should be understandable to intermediaries not only end points. > > If an intermediary is Atom-generic then it should not be attempting > to understand link relations. A library would ideally provide an > interface to retrieve links by (rel, type) pair, possibly also > allowing constraining by hreflang. Why so? We see tremendous value in interpreting rel values for pre- fetching certain data that we feel may be useful to the user. > > The meaning of specific values of rel is for endpoints to determine, > not intermediaries. Intermediaries should just be concerned with > getting the data from A to B without loss of meaning. I am using the term intermediaries rather loosely here. See above for what I mean by the term. When an application produces a variant of AtomPub for interaction between server A and client B, A and B are the endpoints. However, if a standard client C wants to play with server A, it would be useful if it didn't have to fully understand all the customizations introduced by A. > > >> How is introducing another dimension for application-specified text >> worse than creating a huge number of non-standard rel values? It >> doesn't break any existing clients or servers. > > Adding a new attribute to link seems likely to break more > intermediaries than adding new rel values. What intermediaries would break if they see new attributes on links? Can you relate your experience with this issue? > Existing libraries will likely not provide a convenient means to > access the new attribute, and entry re-publishing systems may drop > the new attribute on the floor when the entry round-trips through > their data model. Dropping foreign mark-up is a boo-boo in Atom, whether it is in clients or servers. > > However, I do agree with your general principle that new link > relationships should be generic and not specific to a given > application. rel and type are two orthogonal dimensions that should > be considered together by applications. > I am not sure what you mean by type - it is optional and merely a hint for the Content-Type of the representation obtained at the href. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 13 22:18:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C323A6A95 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:18:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mi1-sDtHIf8E for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19403A6A0E for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4E5BESK008923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2009 22:11:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4E5BEvX008922; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:11:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com (yw-out-1718.google.com [74.125.46.154]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4E5B2KT008898 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:11:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so612711ywk.4 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:11:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BwbqLOv+yc2Is0C/XrPFLKBoSBxVv1wWRLlmGbAxNuc=; b=Q2bKdti0E44D53G/vBwYJenLUPaNEI0tgTm1McWTEO06yccVza9xqwxIs6kpUfOsLq RG6vLsvyu0NjeOZODVQ52aoVFLOWOTw7ofHYmsI7AeilOo1hKcoMgYz1s2NnnE3QS9x8 6KFHHM+mO65JocCbe2lKIWAx3c5JrtDPecFKg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=klI0ihMLuMVOXTklsEw0Wi4osWHzrrjUNIrPeFNmyg8s3aqZO6CkiPatUDMP6jYs3a ZyB44y2w4u2tWu9zJxdxYFX8lLq23UxwUNqO8nyqayDynDZ+WHL+/YqrqpfNA9lzXwC5 kSSSOqx+0nLbynJWUQTI/TNOrMv43+Ei4Hx4c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.134.1 with SMTP id l1mr2800464ybn.146.1242277861768; Wed, 13 May 2009 22:11:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1F243D47-4813-49E6-BE1F-854E334D3CBE@oracle.com> References: <58C6B4DA-8B23-4458-B1CE-A73294401E86@oracle.com> <4A0B19DE.10702@gmx.de> <4A0B2A27.1030406@degeneration.co.uk> <1F243D47-4813-49E6-BE1F-854E334D3CBE@oracle.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 00:11:01 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c2cc0aded676b4a0 Message-ID: <8158ad750905132211y5ff22619r44d1167f9210152c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Proliferation of rel values for atom:link From: Peter Keane To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: Atom Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > > > On May 13, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Martin Atkins wrote: > >> >> Nikunj Mehta wrote: >>> >>> Intermediaries such as libraries, synchronization tools, and aggregators >>> won't understand 10,000 new link relations that every vendor dealing with >>> AtomPub is currently producing. IMHO, the rel value should be understandable >>> to intermediaries not only end points. >> >> If an intermediary is Atom-generic then it should not be attempting to >> understand link relations. A library would ideally provide an interface to >> retrieve links by (rel, type) pair, possibly also allowing constraining by >> hreflang. > > Why so? We see tremendous value in interpreting rel values for pre-fetching > certain data that we feel may be useful to the user. > >> >> The meaning of specific values of rel is for endpoints to determine, not >> intermediaries. Intermediaries should just be concerned with getting the >> data from A to B without loss of meaning. > > I am using the term intermediaries rather loosely here. See above for what I > mean by the term. When an application produces a variant of AtomPub for > interaction between server A and client B, A and B are the endpoints. > However, if a standard client C wants to play with server A, it would be > useful if it didn't have to fully understand all the customizations > introduced by A. > >> >> >>> How is introducing another dimension for application-specified text worse >>> than creating a huge number of non-standard rel values? It doesn't break any >>> existing clients or servers. >> >> Adding a new attribute to link seems likely to break more intermediaries >> than adding new rel values. > > What intermediaries would break if they see new attributes on links? Can you > relate your experience with this issue? I'm not sure I've taken part in any detailed discussion of Atom Syntax that did not eventually bring up the need for link extensions :-). It is certainly a recurring issue, and I think some thought should be given about how to deal with it. For the @rel attribute, of course, anyone can mint a new one if they use a full URI. And while link@type (as you mention below) is indeed meant to be just a hint, it seems to me that @rel+@type do indeed offer a handy mechanism for distinguishing. Atom:link also has @title, which could certainly be of use in some cases, although one would assume that would involve human interpr. (it's used effectively in the Atom Media Extension proposal). Adding attributes is a possible solution, but I'd be wary of a proliferation of these (everyone seems to want 'em). It may be the only solution, but it would be nice if the work done here and in Activity Streams (and Atom Media extensions ), as well as Snell's Atom Link Extensions draft were harmonized. Were it up to me, I'd probably suggest using atom:category as a child of atom:link (that's undefined, but not disallowed in the current spec) to distinguish link "kinds" or to express attributes of the link beyond that expressed in @rel + @type. Whatever happens, I do hope we can come up with a reasonable mechaism to extend atom@link (hopefully a mechanism that'll provide guidance for many of the various efforts wanting to extend it). --peter keane > >> Existing libraries will likely not provide a convenient means to access >> the new attribute, and entry re-publishing systems may drop the new >> attribute on the floor when the entry round-trips through their data model. > > Dropping foreign mark-up is a boo-boo in Atom, whether it is in clients or > servers. > >> >> However, I do agree with your general principle that new link >> relationships should be generic and not specific to a given application. rel >> and type are two orthogonal dimensions that should be considered together by >> applications. >> > > I am not sure what you mean by type - it is optional and merely a hint for > the Content-Type of the representation obtained at the href. > > From allusive@fwpa.com.au Thu May 14 10:42:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7304E3A7055; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:42:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -33.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX_NOV5A=1.062, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhu7yYPENV+X; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 54039C33.catv.pool.telekom.hu (54039C33.catv.pool.telekom.hu [84.3.156.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269AC3A7054; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 19:44:14 +0100 From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Watch e-store To: Message-ID: <000d01c9d4bb$98f3fef0$6400a8c0@allusive> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal This watch made similar to the real brand one, except, at a much lower cost. 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Kirt Metcalf PT From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 14 11:26:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 918543A6BED for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.059 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.059 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Co4ELgKzFUOZ for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 11:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D9628C275 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 11:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4EIIZAR070605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 11:18:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4EIIZwo070603; Thu, 14 May 2009 11:18:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4EIIOpQ070580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 11:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.194] (dhcp194.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4EIIHHo017165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 May 2009 11:18:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:18:15 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: link relations and links in general Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. i know this is a bit off-list, but i am looking for pointers and thoughts and opinions, so i thought i'll give it a try anyway... the recent discussions around link relations indicate a general interest to identify link semantics, right? and there seems to be a more general issue of not only identifying link semantics, but maybe generally possible RESTful interactions via links. for example, HTML forms use form/@enctype as a hint for what encoding has to be used for a form submission, and AtomPub uses collection/accept to indicate the MIME type(s). HTML forms use form/@method to indicate the supported HTTP method, in AtomPub it is implicit. in HTML and AtomPub, links are identified by the schema, but not in the markup. what i am wondering: would it make any sense to come up with something like xml:id for links? something that allows XML vocabularies to be generically RESTful by making links discoverable and also exposing some minimal information about how to access those links? after all, hypermedia is one of the core constraints of REST, and ironically, XML does not have a way of identifying links. for link relations, should there be just one well-defined list of values with a registry? should there be extensibility on a per application basis, via things like QNames or CURIEs (both of which have their issues because they're often not supported well in implementations). maybe we're all still traumatized by HLink, or REST does not need any generic link recognition and link-enabled vocabularies are good enough. right now, i am just interested in some feedback about the general idea of "making links and some link semantics discoverable". thanks and cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From rihcem1988@MASTERENTAL.COM.BR Thu May 14 13:51:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B8A3A69AF for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:51:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.213 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.213 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6neoQOpOSLq for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stgt-5f7127a8.pool.einsundeins.de (stgt-5f7127a8.pool.einsundeins.de [95.113.39.168]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB83D3A6993 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "hink Legris" To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: For atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090514205158.AB83D3A6993@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Vybyh Fymeuy Xobii

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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 14 15:04:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376A528C2EB for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:04:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qs1np0-3Vvho for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC55628C275 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4ELwMqQ087187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4ELwMLb087186; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4ELwAK5087168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.194] (dhcp194.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4ELw7n0001788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:07 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0C93EC.709@berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:04 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Felix Sasaki CC: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: link relations and links in general References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Felix Sasaki wrote: > 2009/5/14 Erik Wilde > > for link relations, should there be just one well-defined list of > values with a registry? > Do you have something like > http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/RelExtensions > in mind? not really, this is HTML5 only. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-05.txt is more what i had in mind (even though right now it unfortunately combines a link relation registry and their use in HTTP). i think the problem is exactly that we have representation-specific and sometimes conflicting concepts of how to talk about links. i think it would be useful to take something like mark's draft, remove the HTTP focus, extend it with more link metadata such as the "method" and "URI identification" mechanisms, and then define, in separate drafts, how this could be, for example, represented in HTTP, or in any XML vocabulary. like i said, this is not a concrete proposal right now, but something like mark's draft would be a good foundation. more to the point of your pointer: i am wondering how exactly the wiki will be managed. is it strictly "add only", and once they're added, they're in HTML5 for good? is there some feedback or consolidation phase? now i see that all values say "proposed", which probably means at some point in time there will be a consolidation and selection phase? who decides, who selects, and is that selection then hardcoded into HTML5, like it was in HTML4? what about the overlaps in link semantics that will necessarily occur because many of these rel values are loosely defined and probably have a rather specific application background? and then there seems to be some disconnect with HTML4. this is not a systematic survey, but HTML4 had "start" and this seems to have been renamed to "up" (at least that's my understanding) in the current HTML5 draft. is there a list comparing HTML4 and HTML5 relation types? and if even HTML relation types are not consistent across versions, that's definitely not the direction i was interested in. cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 14 17:34:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AC63A6BA0 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.420, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t6Aw7rOZ-fyS for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CA83A68AE for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4F0THHc095512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 17:29:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4F0TH3t095510; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:29:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4F0T50c095496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 May 2009 17:29:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4F0TQ2B017076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 May 2009 00:29:28 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com (abhmt004.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4F0TVZU010051; Fri, 15 May 2009 00:29:32 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:28:59 -0700 Cc: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Message-Id: <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> From: Nikunj Mehta To: Erik Wilde In-Reply-To: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-78--100422419 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: link relations and links in general Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:27:46 -0700 References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt004.oracle.com [141.146.116.13] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A0CB74C.0133:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-78--100422419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the purposes of read-only usage, what we have with link relations is good enough for identifying semantics. You follow a link and issue a GET request and boom.. you get what you asked for. The IANA link registry is a good enough place to hold this information, although it may be made even more easy to manage than to write to iana-assign for a new assignment. Whether that is a Wiki or something else, that could be discussed. Oracle is certainly interested in putting together some kind of adjectives on Atom resources so that we can better predict the kind of operations that can be performed. For example, the edit and edit-media relations actually mean something beyond other link relations because I can actually manipulate those resources. Likewise, the hierarchy-ID attempts to define a few new semantics for Atom resources that are, for lack of a better word, highlighted as being "master" or "detail" resources. The IETF RFC list is as good a place as any for recording these adjectives and the meanings of these. If there is a way to annotate link entries with such additional semantics so that we can use them even when people create separate rel values, we would love it. Of course, I am approaching this from the perspective of a general library that wants to interpret standardized Atom extensions so that we can play a role when we are disconnected from the server. My blog talks a lot about this in the context of AtomDB [1]. Curious to hear what others think. Thanks to Eric for bringing this up and looking at it from a different angle. Nikunj On May 14, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: > > hello. > > i know this is a bit off-list, but i am looking for pointers and > thoughts and opinions, so i thought i'll give it a try anyway... > > the recent discussions around link relations indicate a general > interest to identify link semantics, right? and there seems to be a > more general issue of not only identifying link semantics, but maybe > generally possible RESTful interactions via links. for example, HTML > forms use form/@enctype as a hint for what encoding has to be used > for a form submission, and AtomPub uses collection/accept to > indicate the MIME type(s). HTML forms use form/@method to indicate > the supported HTTP method, in AtomPub it is implicit. in HTML and > AtomPub, links are identified by the schema, but not in the markup. > > what i am wondering: would it make any sense to come up with > something like xml:id for links? something that allows XML > vocabularies to be generically RESTful by making links discoverable > and also exposing some minimal information about how to access those > links? after all, hypermedia is one of the core constraints of REST, > and ironically, XML does not have a way of identifying links. > > for link relations, should there be just one well-defined list of > values with a registry? should there be extensibility on a per > application basis, via things like QNames or CURIEs (both of which > have their issues because they're often not supported well in > implementations). > > maybe we're all still traumatized by HLink, or REST does not need > any generic link recognition and link-enabled vocabularies are good > enough. right now, i am just interested in some feedback about the > general idea of "making links and some link semantics discoverable". > > thanks and cheers, > > erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 > dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret > UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) > > --Apple-Mail-78--100422419 Content-Disposition: inline; 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charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com Oracle Advanced Development Projects 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 --Apple-Mail-78--100422419 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=green-for-email-sig_0.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="green-for-email-sig_0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhLAAcAMQAAP///0x9RHmec9Pf0aa+oleFULHGrmKNW+nv6I+uivT39N7n3W6VZ7zPuZu2 lsjXxYSmfwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAsABwAQAXhICCOZGmeaDoaReC+sKAMR7GopIA6boIvLgPAVSAgALxjSYdrOp/Q6NPg YqIEPkTBV2taTwgGbEw+PAZo3FfKbqMQQfeJ8DoY0Hg0wxhAKBgHCl5XLgMqDwFCAAIFPIYDgidr OUQGkSh0cQMJAQyXOXKhoqOkpaanI2aoIwMErq+uCY0BMlANKpxkYwQGBH82TpMicD0pAgQACToD AchqhAG3KQ4HIlQNnErG0IYqB9EAiEQvwEsozC43hy0CAeXMwsLDLS8MAvf497ruCZ+gOA0gfNt3 AIK0J/JWKVzIsEQIADs= --Apple-Mail-78--100422419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment --Apple-Mail-78--100422419-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 14 17:35:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B25328C146 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.374, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2-Ckhh6Pi95N for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739263A68AE for ; 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Fri, 15 May 2009 00:31:03 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4F0V6iq012400; Fri, 15 May 2009 00:31:06 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:30:34 -0700 Cc: Erik Wilde , Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: From: Nikunj Mehta To: atom-protocol Protocol In-Reply-To: <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: link relations and links in general Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:29:20 -0700 References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010209.4A0CB7AA.01E2:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about the missing reference on the previous message. Here it is again. [1] http://o-micron.blogspot.com/2008/07/uniform-data-synchronization-for-mobile.html On May 14, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Nikunj Mehta wrote: > For the purposes of read-only usage, what we have with link > relations is good enough for identifying semantics. You follow a > link and issue a GET request and boom.. you get what you asked for. > > The IANA link registry is a good enough place to hold this > information, although it may be made even more easy to manage than > to write to iana-assign for a new assignment. Whether that is a Wiki > or something else, that could be discussed. > > Oracle is certainly interested in putting together some kind of > adjectives on Atom resources so that we can better predict the kind > of operations that can be performed. For example, the edit and edit- > media relations actually mean something beyond other link relations > because I can actually manipulate those resources. > > Likewise, the hierarchy-ID attempts to define a few new semantics > for Atom resources that are, for lack of a better word, highlighted > as being "master" or "detail" resources. The IETF RFC list is as > good a place as any for recording these adjectives and the meanings > of these. If there is a way to annotate link entries with such > additional semantics so that we can use them even when people create > separate rel values, we would love it. > > Of course, I am approaching this from the perspective of a general > library that wants to interpret standardized Atom extensions so that > we can play a role when we are disconnected from the server. My blog > talks a lot about this in the context of AtomDB [1]. > > Curious to hear what others think. Thanks to Eric for bringing this > up and looking at it from a different angle. > > Nikunj > On May 14, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Erik Wilde wrote: > >> >> hello. >> >> i know this is a bit off-list, but i am looking for pointers and >> thoughts and opinions, so i thought i'll give it a try anyway... >> >> the recent discussions around link relations indicate a general >> interest to identify link semantics, right? and there seems to be a >> more general issue of not only identifying link semantics, but >> maybe generally possible RESTful interactions via links. for >> example, HTML forms use form/@enctype as a hint for what encoding >> has to be used for a form submission, and AtomPub uses collection/ >> accept to indicate the MIME type(s). HTML forms use form/@method to >> indicate the supported HTTP method, in AtomPub it is implicit. in >> HTML and AtomPub, links are identified by the schema, but not in >> the markup. >> >> what i am wondering: would it make any sense to come up with >> something like xml:id for links? something that allows XML >> vocabularies to be generically RESTful by making links discoverable >> and also exposing some minimal information about how to access >> those links? after all, hypermedia is one of the core constraints >> of REST, and ironically, XML does not have a way of identifying >> links. >> >> for link relations, should there be just one well-defined list of >> values with a registry? should there be extensibility on a per >> application basis, via things like QNames or CURIEs (both of which >> have their issues because they're often not supported well in >> implementations). >> >> maybe we're all still traumatized by HLink, or REST does not need >> any generic link recognition and link-enabled vocabularies are good >> enough. right now, i am just interested in some feedback about the >> general idea of "making links and some link semantics discoverable". >> >> thanks and cheers, >> >> erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 >> dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret >> UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) >> >> > > > Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 > 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com > Oracle Advanced Development Projects > 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > Oracle is committed to developing > practices and products that help protect the environment > --Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=oracle_sig_logo.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="oracle_sig_logo.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhcgAaAMQAAP8QEP/w8P/Q0P/g4P8wMP9gYP8gIP+goP9QUP+QkP+wsP9wcP+AgP9AQP/A wP8AAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAByABoAAAX/ICSOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdC0GCqPvvBKUDp5wp1gFdIPVIDfcOQa6A8yR aO4gweQoUHh4v2Bw4SdihM9egyBF8ALIpkEXDR44vA2XwkD/IgYGAAZbbX1nBGRmhl8AWiUJYicC AIsPDFh4LXOGjQ4NAAhrEIUPBQcOqKmoB5sEZV4JqqoHhQVxlGAOJQG4AAunsqg/dw95KwdfBgzB qKIEBMaQDwCiKpOwEIq6KANuJg14igZwEHPULMTGKbxetjF8D1ItxK7aKl8lCl8DAfALW1+2rUi3 QtqgGN2mwYCXzYvAON624LoEQZ9DEfRcEFSBIE2DjyBDfnyIqRgMcA8a/z5AZQWXOxEdHxwUgfIg sX/zMqlAWclVCQFefLpAqdJBAFJn3owgtpJEQkslEWjUmYLnomokcDlS4s0eFzQNqvXDEyzmAwFP yaXYmGJBuxlzELWIacueiE0AFGyF4HbaNTquUEpFRxUFUC9YXQzARYAkEJSNipKQ9kDu0i9SKKNZ 9iXswMIoYgI4oJYFskpgzkkmcdrviELqmPVt1HpRAaaLqCE1lBgjvEpqRtgl8Tevygd7TcCuiKvP m8OVEkAIYLYPThSsRIpEQJr1x94QBIT09FH6QJC6AiRAoB1kEb7tRb4MvyB+AwSlbejfz7+///8A BijggAQWaOCBCCao4A+CDDbo4IMQRijhhBQKGAIAOw== --Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com Oracle Advanced Development Projects 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 --Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=green-for-email-sig_0.gif Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="green-for-email-sig_0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhLAAcAMQAAP///0x9RHmec9Pf0aa+oleFULHGrmKNW+nv6I+uivT39N7n3W6VZ7zPuZu2 lsjXxYSmfwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAsABwAQAXhICCOZGmeaDoaReC+sKAMR7GopIA6boIvLgPAVSAgALxjSYdrOp/Q6NPg YqIEPkTBV2taTwgGbEw+PAZo3FfKbqMQQfeJ8DoY0Hg0wxhAKBgHCl5XLgMqDwFCAAIFPIYDgidr OUQGkSh0cQMJAQyXOXKhoqOkpaanI2aoIwMErq+uCY0BMlANKpxkYwQGBH82TpMicD0pAgQACToD AchqhAG3KQ4HIlQNnErG0IYqB9EAiEQvwEsozC43hy0CAeXMwsLDLS8MAvf497ruCZ+gOA0gfNt3 AIK0J/JWKVzIsEQIADs= --Apple-Mail-80--100328168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment --Apple-Mail-80--100328168-- From izopsj1210112@ms19.hinet.net Thu May 14 18:08:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9BE03A6CA7; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=13.161, BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL=0.692, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPyHltdbSC72; 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Message-ID: From: "Milo Navarro" Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit To: "Lilia Cochran" Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:09:11 -0500 Hello Lilia If you've waited to get your Vacheron Constantin watch, this is the right time to go for it. http://www.golddnes.com With top notch customer service and super warranty, we stand behind our watches. http://www.golddnes.com Our Vacheron Constantin have all appropriate markings, wordings and engravings same as orginal. Sincerely, Mr Cochran From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 14 18:09:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 942BB3A7085 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-h9+5-wgRKO for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DA03A68AE for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4F14uiC096938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4F14uf5096937; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4F14iPb096918; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so606290fga.3 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.133.197 with SMTP id 5mr190369hbw.74.1242349483091; Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> From: Hadrien Gardeur Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 03:04:23 +0200 Message-ID: <404dcbd20905141804r1d69878ew5d3d69457e7948be@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: link relations and links in general To: Nikunj Mehta Cc: Erik Wilde , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b9ec8a0682f0469e907b9 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --0016363b9ec8a0682f0469e907b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very few rel values are included in the current IANA link registry: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml For values defined in a RFC or de-facto standard values (like "service"), the registry is useful but I'm afraid that if we turn it into a Wiki it might get really messy with dozens of rel values, and people relying on these values for semantics when another choice might be more appropriate (a controlled vocabulary for example). We might want to separate rel values used in webpages ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#s_common_attrtypes) from those used in Atom feeds too. Hadrien --0016363b9ec8a0682f0469e907b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very few rel values are included in the current IANA link registry:=C2=A0http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml

For values defined in a RFC or de-facto standard values= (like "service"), the registry is useful but I'm afraid that= if we turn it into a Wiki it might get really messy with dozens of rel val= ues, and people relying on these values for semantics when another choice m= ight be more appropriate (a controlled vocabulary for example).

We might want to separate rel values used in webpages (= http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#s= _common_attrtypes) from those used in Atom feeds too.

Hadrien
--0016363b9ec8a0682f0469e907b9-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 01:28:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1053A6A0A for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 01:28:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.859 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.260, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puQKBGU0vfns for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 01:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14E03A6AA4 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 01:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4F8Mspp022193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 01:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4F8MsAi022191; Fri, 15 May 2009 01:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4F8MfRC022157 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 01:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2009 08:22:40 -0000 Received: from p508FC03D.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.192.61] by mail.gmx.net (mp049) with SMTP; 15 May 2009 10:22:40 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+Cs1syb/6CX0ssuz5LdO7OJ/Lo20rBSdhPN6oLCP Hbide3dF43aWTy Message-ID: <4A0D2649.9080303@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:22:33 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hadrien Gardeur CC: Nikunj Mehta , Erik Wilde , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: link relations and links in general References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> <404dcbd20905141804r1d69878ew5d3d69457e7948be@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <404dcbd20905141804r1d69878ew5d3d69457e7948be@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.73 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hadrien Gardeur wrote: > ... > We might want to separate rel values used in webpages > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#s_common_attrtypes) > from those used in Atom feeds too. > ... On the contrary, we want to *harmonize* rel values used in HTML, Atom, and in HTTP Link headers! BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 05:36:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F07E3A6996 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:36:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.076 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.076 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.900, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VZkKotx-L7Kd for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2682E3A6A80 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FCR4ne043221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 05:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FCR40m043219; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.190]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FCQoS9043173; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:27:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hadrien.gardeur@feedbooks.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id z23so829954fkz.10 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:26:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.154.16 with SMTP id b16mr228250hbc.145.1242390409593; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:26:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A0D2649.9080303@gmx.de> References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> <404dcbd20905141804r1d69878ew5d3d69457e7948be@mail.gmail.com> <4A0D2649.9080303@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:26:49 +0200 Message-ID: <404dcbd20905150526p22c2973aw6f67fa8e7c290c95@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: link relations and links in general From: Hadrien Gardeur To: Julian Reschke Cc: Nikunj Mehta , Erik Wilde , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f5af860948030469f28f1d Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --001485f5af860948030469f28f1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2009/5/15 Julian Reschke > On the contrary, we want to *harmonize* rel values used in HTML, Atom, and > in HTTP Link headers! > > BR, Julian > It'll require a very different effort to harmonize rel values between HTML and Atom, as we'll have to redefine the scope of some of these values. For example rel="edit" might be useful in the header of a XHTML page, but not as defined in RFC5023 . On the other hand, some of these values such as previous/next/first/last can easily be defined within any context. Hadrien --001485f5af860948030469f28f1d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2009/5/15 Julian Reschke <<= a href=3D"mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de">julian.reschke@gmx.de>
On the contrary, we want to *harmonize* rel values used in HTML, Atom, and = in HTTP Link headers!

BR, Julian

It'll require a very different effort= to harmonize rel values between HTML and Atom, as we'll have to redefi= ne the scope of some of these values. For example rel=3D"edit" mi= ght be useful in the header of a XHTML page, but not as defined in RFC5023. On the other hand, som= e of these values such as previous/next/first/last can easily be defined wi= thin any context.

Hadrien
--001485f5af860948030469f28f1d-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 06:23:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8763A6AC5 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.404, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kjs9zX0pTXA6 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069A83A6837 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FDGXDG047603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 06:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FDGX0O047602; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4FDGLcA047591 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2009 13:16:20 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp054) with SMTP; 15 May 2009 15:16:20 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/DYToDU1jDLRSM2uloA1RN/Rout38/ZCpshz4o8Z HvOlh9W6FC+pSX Message-ID: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:16:14 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atom-Syntax Subject: format of atom:link/@type Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.55 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi, looking at ...: "4.2.7.3 The "type" Attribute On the link element, the "type" attribute's value is an advisory media type: it is a hint about the type of the representation that is expected to be returned when the value of the href attribute is dereferenced. Note that the type attribute does not override the actual media type returned with the representation. Link elements MAY have a type attribute, whose value MUST conform to the syntax of a MIME media type [MIMEREG]." Now the link to MIMEREG (RFC 4288) doesn't really help, because that document doesn't define the syntax. So, finally, the question: does @type allow a media type *plus* parameters? BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 06:49:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B3D3A70F0 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:49:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YXhgbA49UX5G for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55913A70DE for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FDh8pG049458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 06:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FDh8vb049456; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FDgvIX049447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@briansmith.org) Received: from T60 (unknown [70.254.204.83]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82F70D0A2E; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian Smith" To: "'Julian Reschke'" , "'Atom-Syntax'" References: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> Subject: RE: format of atom:link/@type Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:42:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000301c9d563$0eb6a820$2c23f860$@org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnVX//6+C82N6p6RPWu7nUx6tCAAgAATbLQ Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Julian Reschke wrote: > On the link element, the "type" attribute's value is an advisory media > type: it is a hint about the type of the representation that is > expected > to be returned when the value of the href attribute is dereferenced. > Note that the type attribute does not override the actual media type > returned with the representation. Link elements MAY have a type > attribute, whose value MUST conform to the syntax of a MIME media type > [MIMEREG]." > > Now the link to MIMEREG (RFC 4288) doesn't really help, because that > document doesn't define the syntax. > > So, finally, the question: does @type allow a media type *plus* > parameters? See http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20665.html for the previous discussion of this issue. In my parser & validator, I use the HTTP media-type grammar. When producing Atom documents I use HTTP media-type grammar, but I make sure not to add any gratuitous parameters, whitespace, or unnecessary quoting. I believe that is the only sensible way to handle it, because atom:link/@type should (be able to) match the Content-Type of whatever it is linking to. There are other similar issues too. For example, some parts of various Atom specifications use a comparison function for atom:link/@type that isn't defined. I do the comparison the same way as we do in HTTP (case-insensitive except for quoted values, whitespace normalized, parameter-for-parameter comparisons). Another example is atom:link/@length which doesn't have a normative grammar. I use "DIGIT+" as the grammar in my projects. Regards, Brian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 07:09:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1BA3A70D5 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.700, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ZN25zW9ix0v for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9163A6889 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FDxVrf050844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 06:59:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FDxVCq050843; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:59:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e9.ny.us.ibm.com (e9.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FDxJre050827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 06:59:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e9.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4FDlm1p000809 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:47:48 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.2) with ESMTP id n4FDxIOq238134 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n4FDxIGx002348 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:59:18 -0400 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n4FDxInv002339; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:59:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom-Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:59:16 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2FP1|January 12, 2009) at 05/15/2009 08:59:17 AM, Serialize complete at 05/15/2009 08:59:17 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > So, finally, the question: does @type allow a media type *plus* parameters? According to RFC 2045, the type is foo/bar and the parameters are not part of the type. So I'd say no. /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere Appliance Architect http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 07:09:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558B23A70DF for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.380, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yC9PAF4qWwEK for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6E73A70DA for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FE4DUK051371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 07:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FE4DZc051370; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4FE4BgL051351 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:04:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2009 14:04:09 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 15 May 2009 16:04:09 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/nlgs6zDDnLtF/l/szNdFEuzQYthD58Dw6Za+c78 Py08DqC1V+MDUb Message-ID: <4A0D7653.5040603@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:04:03 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Salz CC: Atom-Syntax , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.64 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Richard Salz wrote: >> So, finally, the question: does @type allow a media type *plus* > parameters? > > According to RFC 2045, the type is foo/bar and the parameters are not part > of the type. So I'd say no. > ... But the spec links to RFC4288, which doesn't say anything about the syntax... And I think most people expect a media type to be "what MIME and HTTP use in the Content-Type header"... BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 07:21:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6930428C13F for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:21:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8D9Vd3sSaRo for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC30D3A68AC for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FEBkh0052054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 07:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FEBkAw052053; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FEBYgu052033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:11:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rsalz@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4FE7ii0014313 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:07:45 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.2) with ESMTP id n4FEBX3p138878 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:33 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n4FEBXD5030234 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:33 -0400 Received: from D27ML602.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n4FEBWlr030230; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4A0D7653.5040603@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom-Syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Richard Salz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:31 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2FP1|January 12, 2009) at 05/15/2009 09:11:32 AM, Serialize complete at 05/15/2009 09:11:32 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: > But the spec links to RFC4288, which doesn't say anything about the > syntax... That seems to be a bug in the spec. > And I think most people expect a media type to be "what MIME and HTTP > use in the Content-Type header"... I would not disagree with you, but something like a poll would be nice :) /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere Appliance Architect http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 07:57:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3193A6A8C for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h1VYaM5eHSR9 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7978A3A6A6B for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FEoeTA055651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FEoehS055650; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.243]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FEoYWe055639 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jasnell@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so1218062ana.4 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:x-rim-org-msg-ref-id :return-receipt-to:message-id:reply-to:x-priority:sensitivity :importance:to:cc:subject:from:date:content-type:mime-version; bh=1v8+uTAwqplNbFJqI/51xIN/OKL8LfWnuJ58utVf/Ms=; b=udj5nPJ/eIGNk0+o6iE70PFH/MUSVd2SncGNj9J04esOpf/SbuQjdQF1ucSdrGKVwV wfYWfaTFUNo2IM7HfodLyHRbzDCUh4wXaXmAG7Z/eFKMtEJd9d5OEpPvtKhg9q0gMiD2 5kgDbIp6E7na0aMSBfSWcZjzJlM4aCNwSz/zU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=x-rim-org-msg-ref-id:return-receipt-to:message-id:reply-to :x-priority:sensitivity:importance:to:cc:subject:from:date :content-type:mime-version; b=woqmCY4kzAQxb9FBsl/DqCRxtaKMstfMNTCEJ/0vQjy64wxE36xZBFXHKEZCbNX3tu b1yfW46B45U/Ya7QmN+wVFto3Uh9fILx5Blyu+ma6FZhNVC10/DpxjSTr4jrZ1+ZwwMf N+UV4/3cyAI9Zoksy/sdmTc2A1VjVX/Whirhk= Received: by 10.100.215.17 with SMTP id n17mr4825474ang.87.1242399034442; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bda704.bisx.prod.on.blackberry (d704.bda.bis.na.blackberry.com [67.223.75.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm2297264aga.67.2009.05.15.07.50.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 15 May 2009 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id:466391573 Message-ID:<466391573-1242399029-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1686341885-@bxe1149.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Reply-To: jasnell@gmail.com X-Priority: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Importance: Normal To: "Richard Salz" , owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org, "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Atom-Syntax" Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type From: jasnell@gmail.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:50:37 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: There was never any intention to not allow type params in the value and there are plenty of places where type params are being used in real feeds. So I'd say yes they're allowed. - James ------Original Message------ From: Richard Salz Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type Sent: May 15, 2009 7:11 AM > But the spec links to RFC4288, which doesn't say anything about the > syntax... That seems to be a bug in the spec. > And I think most people expect a media type to be "what MIME and HTTP > use in the Content-Type header"... I would not disagree with you, but something like a poll would be nice :) /r$ -- Visiting Member, IBM Academy STSM, DataPower Chief Programmer WebSphere Appliance Architect http://www.ibm.com/software/integration/datapower/ Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 09:09:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226BC3A70F4 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:09:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.385 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.385 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.214, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yRRMcfJVFyW8 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4C43A70E9 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FFxSBh061905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FFxSYA061903; Fri, 15 May 2009 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FFxGWh061876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 08:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.237] (dhcp237.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.237]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4FFx1H4026615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 May 2009 08:59:01 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0D9142.1060300@berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:58:58 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hadrien Gardeur CC: Julian Reschke , Nikunj Mehta , atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Subject: Re: link relations and links in general References: <4A0C6067.5090407@berkeley.edu> <912123FB-7158-44AE-B141-1CEA9F068744@oracle.com> <404dcbd20905141804r1d69878ew5d3d69457e7948be@mail.gmail.com> <4A0D2649.9080303@gmx.de> <404dcbd20905150526p22c2973aw6f67fa8e7c290c95@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <404dcbd20905150526p22c2973aw6f67fa8e7c290c95@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hadrien Gardeur wrote: > 2009/5/15 Julian Reschke > > On the contrary, we want to *harmonize* rel values used in HTML, > Atom, and in HTTP Link headers! > It'll require a very different effort to harmonize rel values between > HTML and Atom, as we'll have to redefine the scope of some of these > values. For example rel="edit" might be useful in the header of a XHTML > page, but not as defined in RFC5023 > . On the other hand, some of these > values such as previous/next/first/last can easily be defined within any > context. which is why i though maybe it would be interesting to try to identify "universal values", which are registered and well-defined across representations, as well as "format-specific values", which could explicitly be related to specific representations via mechanisms such as QNames or CURIEs (with the usual considerations about how badly both of these things are often handled in implementations). cheers, dret. From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 10:23:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00BC3A710E for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.412 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.412 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.188, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5o27O5Gy6dWb for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460163A7116 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FHG6IQ068007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FHG6ni068006; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FHG4HI067999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [128.32.226.237] (dhcp237.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.226.237]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4FHG25q013851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 May 2009 10:16:02 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0DA34F.9030707@berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:15:59 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Smith , "'Atom-Syntax'" Subject: Re: format of atom:link/@type References: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> <000301c9d563$0eb6a820$2c23f860$@org> In-Reply-To: <000301c9d563$0eb6a820$2c23f860$@org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Brian Smith wrote: > There are other similar issues too. For example, some parts of various Atom > specifications use a comparison function for atom:link/@type that isn't > defined. I do the comparison the same way as we do in HTTP (case-insensitive > except for quoted values, whitespace normalized, parameter-for-parameter > comparisons). Another example is atom:link/@length which doesn't have a > normative grammar. I use "DIGIT+" as the grammar in my projects. are these things discussed in an erratum or in some other well-know place or document? http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4287 does not show any atom errata, and the things you are mentioning (undefined comparisons, missing grammars) should definitely be recorded somewhere, shouldn't they? cheers, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 12:36:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCAAF3A6C31 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q9GkOB3LtiTR for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758513A6A36 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FJTYVv078260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 12:29:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FJTYd7078259; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:29:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FJTN7v078244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:29:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@briansmith.org) Received: from T60 (unknown [70.254.204.83]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56B58D0B69; Fri, 15 May 2009 15:29:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian Smith" To: "'Erik Wilde'" , "'Brian Smith'" , "'Atom-Syntax'" References: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> <000301c9d563$0eb6a820$2c23f860$@org> <4A0DA34F.9030707@berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <4A0DA34F.9030707@berkeley.edu> Subject: RE: format of atom:link/@type Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:29:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c9d593$73c92280$5b5b6780$@org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnVgXZbRAUpkDoWRfCpzNCsxq0byQAD2m2A Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Erik Wilde wrote: > Brian Smith wrote: > > There are other similar issues too. For example, some parts of > various Atom > > specifications use a comparison function for atom:link/@type that > isn't > > defined. I do the comparison the same way as we do in HTTP (case- > insensitive > > except for quoted values, whitespace normalized, parameter-for- > parameter > > comparisons). Another example is atom:link/@length which doesn't have > a > > normative grammar. I use "DIGIT+" as the grammar in my projects. > > Are these things discussed in an erratum or in some other well-know > place or document? http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4287 > does not show any atom errata, and the things you are mentioning > (undefined comparisons, missing grammars) should definitely be recorded > somewhere, shouldn't they? At one point I had collected a bunch of minor issues like this with RFC 4287 and RFC 5023, and I even shared a few on the list in the past. After trying to work with AtomPub for a while I've realized that AtomPub is a useless standard and Atom usually causes more problems than it solves. I may be able to dig up the list of issues if somebody else is interested in doing something with them. - Brian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Fri May 15 16:38:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F342B3A6F15 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 16:38:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.360, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ICKzIIO0DZEp for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 16:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6B13A6EBE for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 16:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FNWuAp091610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 16:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4FNWuJm091609; Fri, 15 May 2009 16:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (bliss.ISchool.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.78.13]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4FNWjjD091589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 16:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dret@berkeley.edu) Received: from [10.0.0.4] (75-101-1-224.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.1.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.ischool.berkeley.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4FNWiSQ015487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 May 2009 16:32:44 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0DFB9D.3090603@berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:32:45 -0700 From: Erik Wilde User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'Atom-Syntax'" , Atom-Protocol Subject: atom and atompub errata References: <4A0D6B1E.4090402@gmx.de> <000301c9d563$0eb6a820$2c23f860$@org> <4A0DA34F.9030707@berkeley.edu> <000c01c9d593$73c92280$5b5b6780$@org> In-Reply-To: <000c01c9d593$73c92280$5b5b6780$@org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 128.32.78.13 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: hello. Brian Smith wrote: > Erik Wilde wrote: >> Are these things discussed in an erratum or in some other well-know >> place or document? http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4287 >> does not show any atom errata, and the things you are mentioning >> (undefined comparisons, missing grammars) should definitely be recorded >> somewhere, shouldn't they? > At one point I had collected a bunch of minor issues like this with RFC 4287 > and RFC 5023, and I even shared a few on the list in the past. After trying > to work with AtomPub for a while I've realized that AtomPub is a useless > standard and Atom usually causes more problems than it solves. I may be able > to dig up the list of issues if somebody else is interested in doing > something with them. i think it would be very useful to have such a list, and to formally file them as errata (if discussions on the relevant lists establish that they indeed are areas where the current specs lack necessary details). so if you could send a list of atom and atompub issues to the relevant lists, that could be the start of a very useful discussion. i don't know how many people look up RFC errata and my guess is not very many (the IETF could do a better job of publishing related material, i think), but at least there is a well-defined place where you can find them. http://dret.net/rfc-index/ is my rather simplistic attempt (refreshed weekly) to make the IETF documents a bit more accessible, but there is a lot that could be improved. just out of curiosity: is there a list of machine-readable resources (such as the XML RFC index) that one could use to improve access to IETF information resources by building a bit more sophisticated web pages from it? thanks, erik wilde tel:+1-510-6432253 - fax:+1-510-6425814 dret@berkeley.edu - http://dret.net/netdret UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) From jacobs@indyplace.com Fri May 15 22:44:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DC63A6934; Fri, 15 May 2009 22:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -45.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-45.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-31.392, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mDexI8i6b+YR; Fri, 15 May 2009 22:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp-58-9-30-181.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-9-30-181.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.9.30.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 406603A68B5; Fri, 15 May 2009 22:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <224hsm60891atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org> From: "Ollie Austin" To: "Carissa Chatman" X-Originating-IP: 120.196.92.240 by 204.158.233.144; Sat, 16 May 2009 12:38:20 +0600 Subject: Superior rep watches for you Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 01:46:20 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello Carissa If you've waited to get your Emporio Armani watch, this is the right time to go for it. http://www.qimucawal.cn Take an extra 15% off your purchase during month of May. http://www.qimucawal.cn Our Emporio Armani watches have perfect weight and feel same as orginal. 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Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Delmar@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From na143princess45@abacusinfo.com Mon May 18 04:40:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD6A3A6892 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 04:40:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -88.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-88.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kWHSNu4yq0tN for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 04:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aktesa.com (unknown [92.49.223.238]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5FF733A6AA5 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 04:40:26 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$900/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518114029.5FF733A6AA5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 04:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Araceli@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From mail@amsco.us Mon May 18 06:41:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDAC3A6BB5 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -65.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-65.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HOST_EQ_DHCP=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kLa10B9Bhnsh for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 06:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 74-132-240-105.dhcp.insightbb.com (74-132-240-105.dhcp.insightbb.com [74.132.240.105]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C1F63A7036 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 06:41:22 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$800/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518134123.2C1F63A7036@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 06:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Maria@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From mauro.lucchini@abril.com.br Mon May 18 08:10:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206F13A6D6D for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 08:10:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -83.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFbdS+CM0p08 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 08:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from africaonline.co.zw (unknown [189.74.196.109]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 87FE33A6A35 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$800/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518151034.87FE33A6A35@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Brandi@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From mariella.munros@airmalta.com.mt Mon May 18 09:49:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4E33A6E4A for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -88.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-88.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qv3B20apXNe0 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3birds7men.com (unknown [189.65.48.190]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 97EDB28C2F5 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:32 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$700/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518164934.97EDB28C2F5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Mavis@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From mail@amberjewelry.ca Mon May 18 10:07:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86BC28C289 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:07:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -84.723 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-84.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cX8XILPVU4Jh for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from almostfamily.com (unknown [189.179.8.196]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BA4E128C2C0 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:07:01 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Secret Shopper [$950/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518170701.BA4E128C2C0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Sofia@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From neep.neep@acme.com Mon May 18 14:40:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82163A6D2E for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -82.973 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-82.973 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FbzVZu7A1SvB for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c-98-244-86-68.hsd1.va.comcast.net (c-98-244-86-68.hsd1.va.comcast.net [98.244.86.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A4543A6AB8 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery~Secret Shopper [$650/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518214016.6A4543A6AB8@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Jamal@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From l.ford@amchamcanada.ca Mon May 18 15:06:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2D63A6D34 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 15:06:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -84.615 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-84.615 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_WEOFFER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zZUlLLNEBqzP for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 15:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3E333164.dslaccess.aol.com (3E333164.dslaccess.aol.com [62.51.49.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B93F13A6AD8 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 15:06:56 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Re: Mystery/Shopper [$850/week] From: atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090518220656.B93F13A6AD8@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for your interest in the Mystery Shopper position.
Our company conducts surveys and evaluates other companies in order to help them achieve their performance goals.
We offer an integrated suite of business solutions that enables corporations to achieve tangible results in the marketplace.

We get hired by other companies and act like customers to find out how they are handling their services in relation to their customers.
Mystery Shopping is the most accurate and reliable tool a business can use to gather information regarding their actual customer service performance at the moment of truth.
This moment of truth is not when the staff is on their best behavior because the boss is around - it is when they interact with customers during their normal daily routines.

This is where you, the Mystery Shopper, come in.
You pose as an ordinary customer and provide feedback of both factual observations (ex...the floor was free of debris)
and your own opinions (ex...I felt that the temperature in the establishment was too cold).

Mystery Shoppers must remain anonymous. You must act as a regular customer and be careful not to do anything that would reveal you as a shopper.
An inexperienced shopper could tip off the staff to his/her identity by asking for the manager's name for no clear or appropriate reason.
If you are going to be bringing someone with you on the shop, make sure you educate them about the process as well.
Beware that even whispers can be overheard by employees. If anyone notices you are a shopper,
you can bet that word will quickly spread around the establishment and you will get some of the best customer service in town.

No company can afford to have a gap between the promise of quality and its actual delivery, that's why leading corporations look to us,
the nation's premiere mystery shopping and customer experience measurement company.

In order for a business to effectively compete in today's economy, they must be prepared to meet the challenge of increasing sales by:
* Retaining existing customers
* Acquiring new customers
* Creating word-of-mouth advocacy
* Improving customer loyalty

Once we have a contract to do so, you would be directed to the company or outlet, and you would be given
the funds you need to do the job(either purchase merchandise or require services), after which you would write a detailed report of your experience.

Examples of details you would forward to us are:
1) How long does it take to get served.
2) Politeness of the attendant.
3) Customer service professionalism.
4) Sometimes you might be required to upset the attendant, to see how they deal with difficult clients.

Then we turn the information over to the company executives and they will carry out their own duties in improving their services.
Most companies employ our assistance when people complain about their services, or when they feel there is a need for them to improve upon their customer service.
Our company partners with you to implement proven mystery shop auditing and surveying strategies that provide critical information about customer experiences.

You will be paid a commission of $100 for every duty you carry out, and bonus on your transportation allowance.
Your task will be to evaluate and comment on customer service in a wide variety of restaurants, retail stores, casinos,
shopping malls, banks and hotels in your area.

Qualities of a good Mystery Shopper:
* Is 21 years of age or older
* Loves to go shopping
* Is fair and objective
* Is ON TIME
* Is very observant and able to focus on details
* Is fairly intelligent
* Has patience
* Is detail oriented
* Is practical
* Types well
* Is trustworthy
* Explains well in writing
* Is discreet
* Loves to learn
* Handles deadlines
* Has full internet access (at home or at work)

Mystery Shopping is fun and exciting but also must be approached very seriously and is definitely not for everyone.

If you are interested in applying for consideration as a Mystery Shopper do send in your information: Rosemarie@wa-surveys.com
Full Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Phone Number:
Age:
Occupation:

As soon as we receive your information we will add you to our database and we will look for locations in your area that needs to be evaluated.

Thank you,
Michael McDowell
WA Surveys
410 Roosevelt Way NE
Seattle, WA 98105
From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 20 10:20:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4363A6D1C for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:20:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.214 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.214 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zgyia9jNtQfT for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1774F28C0F5 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KHAERd027150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 May 2009 10:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4KHAEZF027149; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KHA2Qq027114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:10:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KH9q1P005916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 17:09:53 GMT Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KHA0cc021569 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 17:10:00 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 20 May 2009 10:09:56 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Atom-Syntax Syntax Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-344-391633934 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:08:42 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010205.4A143965.022B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-344-391633934 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Based on feedback received on this and the atom-protocol list as well as others interested in hierarchical relations in Atom, we have split out the hierarchical navigation and representation portions from the draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00. This was done with the intention of achieving consensus on the Atom syntax to be used for parent/child like navigation separately from how such resources are manipulated. We look forward to the feedback of this community and will continue to edit the I-D to incorporate the feedback. Here are links to the I-D: Text: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt HTML: http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy.html Regards, Nikunj Begin forwarded message: > From: IETF I-D Submission Tool > Date: May 20, 2009 9:54:15 AM PDT > To: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com > Cc: colm.divilly@oracle.com > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 > > > A new version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt has been > successfuly submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Filename: draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy > Revision: 00 > Title: Hierarchy Extensions for Atom > Creation_date: 2009-05-20 > WG ID: Independent Submission > Number_of_pages: 10 > > Abstract: > This specification defines mechanisms for hierarchical navigation > among Atom feeds and entries.Editorial Note > > To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax > mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. > > > > The IETF Secretariat. > > Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com Oracle Advanced Development Projects 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment --Apple-Mail-344-391633934 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=Apple-Mail-345-391633934; type="text/html" --Apple-Mail-345-391633934 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Based on feedback received on = this and the atom-protocol list as well as others interested in = hierarchical relations in Atom, we have split out the hierarchical = navigation and representation portions from the http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00= .txt

Regards,
Nikunj

Begin forwarded message:

From: = IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission@ietf.org>
Date: = May 20, 2009 9:54:15 AM PDT
Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 


A new = version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt has been successfuly = submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF = repository.

Filename: = draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy
Revision: 00
Title: = Hierarchy Extensions for Atom
Creation_date: = 2009-05-20
WG ID: Independent = Submission
Number_of_pages: 10

Abstract:
This specification = defines mechanisms for hierarchical navigation
among Atom feeds and = entries.Editorial Note

To provide feedback on this = Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax
mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1].



The IETF = Secretariat.



R0lGODlhcgAaAMQAAP8QEP/w8P/Q0P/g4P8wMP9gYP8gIP+goP9QUP+QkP+wsP9wcP+AgP9AQP/A wP8AAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAByABoAAAX/ICSOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdC0GCqPvvBKUDp5wp1gFdIPVIDfcOQa6A8yR aO4gweQoUHh4v2Bw4SdihM9egyBF8ALIpkEXDR44vA2XwkD/IgYGAAZbbX1nBGRmhl8AWiUJYicC AIsPDFh4LXOGjQ4NAAhrEIUPBQcOqKmoB5sEZV4JqqoHhQVxlGAOJQG4AAunsqg/dw95KwdfBgzB qKIEBMaQDwCiKpOwEIq6KANuJg14igZwEHPULMTGKbxetjF8D1ItxK7aKl8lCl8DAfALW1+2rUi3 QtqgGN2mwYCXzYvAON624LoEQZ9DEfRcEFSBIE2DjyBDfnyIqRgMcA8a/z5AZQWXOxEdHxwUgfIg sX/zMqlAWclVCQFefLpAqdJBAFJn3owgtpJEQkslEWjUmYLnomokcDlS4s0eFzQNqvXDEyzmAwFP yaXYmGJBuxlzELWIacueiE0AFGyF4HbaNTquUEpFRxUFUC9YXQzARYAkEJSNipKQ9kDu0i9SKKNZ 9iXswMIoYgI4oJYFskpgzkkmcdrviELqmPVt1HpRAaaLqCE1lBgjvEpqRtgl8Tevygd7TcCuiKvP m8OVEkAIYLYPThSsRIpEQJr1x94QBIT09FH6QJC6AiRAoB1kEb7tRb4MvyB+AwSlbejfz7+///8A BijggAQWaOCBCCao4A+CDDbo4IMQRijhhBQKGAIAOw== --Apple-Mail-345-391633934 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=green-for-email-sig_0.gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/gif; x-unix-mode=0644; name="green-for-email-sig_0.gif" Content-Id: R0lGODlhLAAcAMQAAP///0x9RHmec9Pf0aa+oleFULHGrmKNW+nv6I+uivT39N7n3W6VZ7zPuZu2 lsjXxYSmfwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAsABwAQAXhICCOZGmeaDoaReC+sKAMR7GopIA6boIvLgPAVSAgALxjSYdrOp/Q6NPg YqIEPkTBV2taTwgGbEw+PAZo3FfKbqMQQfeJ8DoY0Hg0wxhAKBgHCl5XLgMqDwFCAAIFPIYDgidr OUQGkSh0cQMJAQyXOXKhoqOkpaanI2aoIwMErq+uCY0BMlANKpxkYwQGBH82TpMicD0pAgQACToD AchqhAG3KQ4HIlQNnErG0IYqB9EAiEQvwEsozC43hy0CAeXMwsLDLS8MAvf497ruCZ+gOA0gfNt3 AIK0J/JWKVzIsEQIADs= --Apple-Mail-345-391633934-- --Apple-Mail-344-391633934-- From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 20 11:34:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136BC3A6EF8 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:34:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.777 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.777 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fg2JHEV2-R+j for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24293A6E37 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIOi7h032256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 May 2009 11:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4KIOi1u032255; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com (yx-out-1718.google.com [74.125.44.157]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIOX0G032234 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pjkeane@gmail.com) Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 34so336756yxf.4 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:24:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8PIwmFEJGgsAdMxPiUWvgGw+9gW0XeqCCIdpswFhfaw=; b=A7yGK2qjVWIo6M1N1C2rFCNSO8rSp0HkeqKb00r4eD2qanQFipSCluSl3ZpKi7e70O 2JakrjbvaieF9Dba1aOFrjlWRM6sSFhQXGBvGtDMYNSCyRLlwPnl3B/8FElK6fgLf0dM kpiU/zhI2y+8zqxKG4+6XqiLF/LjIxjpVp9vM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=pmdd0kFVwwDpL5nZfbN4kKUJLVoN+ZXFWC0DjIi629geWMXiCmki/NslODwYTtM2zr AQ+iBgUB1VXahuF/j9L4K9LDosZT42mfoPliip40Js/w5YYNamASMUNqFeuvcSNUeEra RddV45YdQ98JZq1Y762Xr8YjpTkeDYK9vIoMM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.72.8 with SMTP id z8mr3271430ybk.73.1242843872622; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:24:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:24:32 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 603afebb1aee988a Message-ID: <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 From: Peter Keane To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi Nikunj- Very nice work. I have a couple of questions: Can an entry contain more than one child feed (i.e. down link) of different types? (I assume not per atom:link@rel=3D"down" (1..1) cardinality constraint). In that case, would the entry have a child feed that itself would contain parent entries, one for each feed of varying type: parent entry -- child feed -- -- parent entry -- -- -- child feed type a -- -- parent entry -- -- -- child feed type b Also, looks like IANA Atom Link registry already includes "up." This ID is simply reusing that, correct? --peter On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > Based on feedback received on this and the atom-protocol list as well as > others interested in hierarchical relations in Atom, we have split out th= e > hierarchical navigation and representation portions from > the=C2=A0draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00. This was done with the inten= tion of > achieving consensus on the Atom syntax to be used for parent/child like > navigation separately from how such resources are manipulated. > We look forward to the feedback of this community and will continue to ed= it > the I-D to incorporate the feedback. Here are links to the I-D: > Text:=C2=A0http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarc= hy-00.txt > HTML:=C2=A0http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly= -atom-hierarchy.html > Regards, > Nikunj > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: IETF I-D Submission Tool > Date: May 20, 2009 9:54:15 AM PDT > To: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com > Cc: colm.divilly@oracle.com > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 > > A new version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt has been > successfuly submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF repository. > > Filename: draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy > Revision: 00 > Title: Hierarchy Extensions for Atom > Creation_date: 2009-05-20 > WG ID: Independent Submission > Number_of_pages: 10 > > Abstract: > This specification defines mechanisms for hierarchical navigation > among Atom feeds and entries.Editorial Note > > To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax > mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. > > > > The IETF Secretariat. > > > > > Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 650 506 > 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com > Oracle=C2=A0Advanced Development Projects > 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > =C2=A0Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help = protect > the environment > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 20 11:49:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DB53A6DC0 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.677, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zu4CluA5fwVS for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6D03A6B3F for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIhHRk033358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4KIhH1D033357; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIh6kZ033348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KIhZAO009498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 May 2009 18:43:36 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KIcWvj016423; Wed, 20 May 2009 18:38:32 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:37:51 -0700 Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Peter Keane In-Reply-To: <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:36:36 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010207.4A144E01.001E:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Actually, if there is enough support, there is a much better way out as blogged earlier [1]. Of course, that is not currently included in the hierarchy I-D [2], but that can change. Atom syntax places no limits on the multiple occurrence of link@rel within a single entry or feed, except for a few relations defined in RFC 4287. Also, I could technically use the term attribute previously defined in the atom namespace to differentiate between the several child feeds. An example to illustrate my point: A folder entry ... Nikunj Mehta http://o-micron.blogspot.com [1] http://o-micron.blogspot.com/2009/05/atom-multiple-links-with-same-rel-value.html [2] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt On May 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Peter Keane wrote: > Hi Nikunj- > > Very nice work. I have a couple of questions: > > Can an entry contain more than one child feed (i.e. down link) of > different types? (I assume not per atom:link@rel="down" (1..1) > cardinality constraint). In that case, would the entry have a child > feed that itself would contain parent entries, one for each feed of > varying type: > > parent entry > -- child feed > -- -- parent entry > -- -- -- child feed type a > -- -- parent entry > -- -- -- child feed type b > > Also, looks like IANA Atom Link registry already includes "up." This > ID is simply reusing that, correct? > > --peter > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Nikunj R. Mehta > wrote: >> Based on feedback received on this and the atom-protocol list as >> well as >> others interested in hierarchical relations in Atom, we have split >> out the >> hierarchical navigation and representation portions from >> the draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00. This was done with the >> intention of >> achieving consensus on the Atom syntax to be used for parent/child >> like >> navigation separately from how such resources are manipulated. >> We look forward to the feedback of this community and will continue >> to edit >> the I-D to incorporate the feedback. Here are links to the I-D: >> Text: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt >> HTML: http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy.html >> Regards, >> Nikunj >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: IETF I-D Submission Tool >> Date: May 20, 2009 9:54:15 AM PDT >> To: nikunj.mehta@oracle.com >> Cc: colm.divilly@oracle.com >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt has been >> successfuly submitted by Nikunj Mehta and posted to the IETF >> repository. >> >> Filename: draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Hierarchy Extensions for Atom >> Creation_date: 2009-05-20 >> WG ID: Independent Submission >> Number_of_pages: 10 >> >> Abstract: >> This specification defines mechanisms for hierarchical navigation >> among Atom feeds and entries.Editorial Note >> >> To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the atom-syntax >> mailing list (http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/) [1]. >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat. >> >> >> >> >> Nikunj R Mehta | Consulting Member of Technical Staff | Phone: +1 >> 650 506 >> 0679 | Blog: http://o-micron.blogspot.com >> Oracle Advanced Development Projects >> 500 Oracle Parkway #4OP662 | Redwood Shores, CA 94065 >> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help >> protect >> the environment >> From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 20 11:49:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943FF3A7149 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.621, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZHIF33hdyjDg for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CDF3A6B3F for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIhk66033389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4KIhkwg033388; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4KIhjdm033382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KIiFHB010724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 May 2009 18:44:16 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com (abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4KIcjks000483; Wed, 20 May 2009 18:38:45 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 20 May 2009 11:38:41 -0700 Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Peter Keane In-Reply-To: <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:37:27 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt003.oracle.com [141.146.116.12] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A01020A.4A144E32.0068:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Peter Keane wrote: > Also, looks like IANA Atom Link registry already includes "up." This > ID is simply reusing that, correct? That is correct. 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I am working on a website which has a "main" news feed in English; all entries are to be translated into a few other languages. The entries are stored in an eXist instance; there are as many feeds as languages. I have been going through the Atom Syndication specs, and I can see that there a few "tools" available, such as @hreflang + @rel="alternate" in an atom:entry. But I am still wondering about a few things. Let's say I have a fictitious atom:entry ENTRY. It is published first in english, ENTRY_EN: it has an atom:id, atom:published (the permalink is added when the feed is requested, and points to the actual URI of the website's news section), and other required elements. The atom:id and atom:published must be shared by ENTRY_EN and the translated entries (if I understood things properly), since they are really alternate versions of the same entry ENTRY, right? I hope this was clear. Thanks! 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(host86-165-92-13.range86-165.btcentralplus.com [86.165.92.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 24sm3945898eyx.33.2009.05.24.04.32.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 24 May 2009 04:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: atom-syntax Message-Id: From: Geoffrey Sneddon To: Geoffrey Sneddon In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: draft-sneddon-atom-export (Was: Exporting a blog using Atom) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 12:32:10 +0100 References: <1C1D116F-9BB2-4B4D-9C21-2965324C0848@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 25 Mar 2009, at 22:59, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote: > I wrote this fairly quickly a few weeks ago in the middle of the > night, and the more I look at it now, the more I see issues with it. > Nevertheless, the basic structure of it is what I was generally > thinking of all those months ago when speaking to Andrew. All the > same, comments are welcome (though don't bother rushing thinking it > is absolutely urgent: I doubt I'll do much more to it until June). Now updated: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > Title : Atom Export Format > Author(s) : G. Sneddon > Filename : draft-sneddon-atom-export-01.txt > Pages : 3 > Date : 2009-05-23 > > This document specifies a method of using the Atom Syndication Format > as an export format. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sneddon-atom-export-01.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This moves from the ustar solution to using a single Atom Feed Document, in such as way as to hopefully be compatible with existing Blogger importers. As such, it is a complete rewrite. -- Geoffrey Sneddon From mainte@alpha-mail.jp Mon May 25 02:07:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3E53A68DB for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 02:07:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_HEXIP=2.204, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qkIZVcYJJ6lA for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 02:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 0x555335b3.adsl.cybercity.dk (0x555335b3.adsl.cybercity.dk [85.83.53.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 088D83A6930 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 02:07:29 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 02:07:29 -0700 (PDT)

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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon May 25 08:42:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038DB3A6848 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.043 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.444, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dC6PiN0T5PfW for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504283A6AD4 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4PFZOs6010684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 25 May 2009 08:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4PFZONc010683; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4PFZCoV010653 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 May 2009 15:35:11 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 25 May 2009 17:35:11 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX191dMdJmql1VDLR/JT19gpkdJcXuYfoyQtGl+7AqH idDOlnS+ohpST+ Message-ID: <4A1ABAA4.7050101@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:35:00 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" CC: Peter Keane , Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.61 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > > On May 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Peter Keane wrote: > >> Also, looks like IANA Atom Link registry already includes "up." This >> ID is simply reusing that, correct? > > That is correct. And a good thing; that being said we should make that explicit in the IANA Considerations Section. In addition, it would be good to rephrase "Description:" part of these so that they become generic, and not tied to Atom. And, as a nit, the "Security considerations:" shouldn't say "this draft", as it won't be a draft anymore when it gets published :-). BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Mon May 25 08:48:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBB83A68B1 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:48:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m+5bVwkuOJjs for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B3E3A6C6F for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4PFgtpG011887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4PFgt0I011886; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4PFgrVI011877 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:42:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 May 2009 15:42:52 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp055) with SMTP; 25 May 2009 17:42:52 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/itoJri3vitjaSD4wk1wm+FvQQ+5GegEVWehqDV0 AR+9EKGr1Ig1+2 Message-ID: <4A1ABC72.7000306@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:42:42 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" CC: Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.59 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > Based on feedback received on this and the atom-protocol list as well as > others interested in hierarchical relations in Atom, we have split out > the hierarchical navigation and representation portions from > the draft-divilly-atompub-hierarchy-00. This was done with the intention > of achieving consensus on the Atom syntax to be used for parent/child > like navigation separately from how such resources are manipulated. > > We look forward to the feedback of this community and will continue to > edit the I-D to incorporate the feedback. Here are links to the I-D: > > Text: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt > HTML: http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy.html > > Regards, > Nikunj > ... Ni Nikunj, with respect to , "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements stretches its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource" too much. As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list (), it may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. So, the example in : ... ... would become ... ... BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 26 14:08:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13E23A6A2C for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.025 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.025 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.573, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IMFe5SA+OJev for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EAE3A67EB for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QL0wQg070397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 May 2009 14:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4QL0wsM070396; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QL0lVq070380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QL0TbE021395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 May 2009 21:00:30 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com (abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QL1PPU013772; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:01:25 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:00:36 -0700 Cc: Peter Keane , Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: <0E81B81A-75E6-48B8-BF25-4C3F8323BC8C@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A1ABAA4.7050101@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:59:20 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <8158ad750905201124n64ef3d1foea21cc25cb4910ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A1ABAA4.7050101@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A01020A.4A1C5875.02BE:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 25, 2009, at 8:35 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >> On May 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Peter Keane wrote: >>> Also, looks like IANA Atom Link registry already includes "up." >>> This >>> ID is simply reusing that, correct? >> That is correct. > > And a good thing; that being said we should make that explicit in > the IANA Considerations Section. Will do. This will be included in atom-hierarchy--01 > > > In addition, it would be good to rephrase "Description:" part of > these so that they become generic, and not tied to Atom. Will do. This will be included in atom-hierarchy--01 > > > And, as a nit, the "Security considerations:" shouldn't say "this > draft", as it won't be a draft anymore when it gets published :-). Will do. This will be included in atom-hierarchy--01 > > > BR, Julian > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 26 14:17:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11173A716D for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:17:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.166 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.166 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.368, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fhUN0JslwF8A for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DF13A716A for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QL8o6O070854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4QL8oS5070853; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rgminet12.oracle.com (rcsinet12.oracle.com [148.87.113.124]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QL8n7i070847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rgminet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QL8ZNG006092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 May 2009 21:08:37 GMT Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com (abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QL9VnZ000555; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:32 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:08:43 -0700 Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: <9A3EC7B3-B828-4247-836B-4619AD5EE5D3@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A1ABC72.7000306@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:07:27 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <4A1ABC72.7000306@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010206.4A1C5A5C.0023:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > with respect to >, "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... > > It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements > stretches its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web > resource" too much. I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list more than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly legal to do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears similar to the approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are available. > > > As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list ( >), it may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. > > So, the example in >: > > > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> > > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> > ... > > > ... > > > would become > > > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions" /> > > > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> > ... > > > ... > > > BR, Julian Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20464.html From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Tue May 26 14:35:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719FB3A6C0F for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:35:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ibqYAagMOT2 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1157D3A6C4C for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QLTRjf072325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 May 2009 14:29:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4QLTRHN072324; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:29:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4QLTQVO072318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QLTwsn007327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 May 2009 21:29:59 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com (abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4QLTDMw002909; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:29:23 GMT Received: from [144.25.174.33] (/144.25.174.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 26 May 2009 14:29:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4A1C5F78.1060105@oracle.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:30:32 -0700 From: Nikunj Mehta Organization: Oracle User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Ruby CC: Bill de hOra , atom-syntax Syntax Subject: Re: atom:category excludes atom:* children? References: <47D809F4.8010808@dehora.net> <47D8151C.3000701@gmail.com> <47D81CE6.4070609@dehora.net> <005b01c8846e$647c0ee0$4001a8c0@T60> <47D84BA6.4060302@dehora.net> <47D85D5B.4090500@geckotribe.com> <47D86623.5070500@dehora.net> <47E39DA1.1010002@intertwingly.net> In-Reply-To: <47E39DA1.1010002@intertwingly.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Source-IP: abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A1C5F2F.0224:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I want to revive this thread as a recent IETF submission to support hierarchy in Atom feeds and entries [1] defines the meaning of atom:entry and atom:feed nested directly under atom:link elements. Nikunj [1] Text: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt HTML: http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy.html Sam Ruby wrote: > > Bill de hOra wrote: >> >> No, because I see the spirit of the RFC as allowing what it does not >> explicitly disallow. Hence the RNC is non-normative. > > [snip] > >> I would say "huge gaping hole in the spec" were it not for my opinion >> that the WG worked on a default allow basis and the intent was never >> to restrict this kind of usage. > > Drats. This thread has seemed to died down. I had hopes... > > As you say, the RNC is non-normative. And consumers of Atom need to > be aware that it is quite possible for subsequent RFCs to define new > Atom vocabulary that is to be used as immediate children of atom:feed > or atom:entry, let alone places which are intentional extension points. > > Now, as to the feed validator, this is one of those rare times that it > is at cross-purposes with the spec. For the feed validator to be > useful, it needs to be implemented with a "default disallow" policy > lest it accept both atom:category and atom:catagory. > > If there is any actual use of atom:link inside of atom:category, I'll > downgrade this to a warning ("might be rejected by code that > overzealously uses the provided RNC as a filter"). If there is any > actual spec for how it is to be used, I'll eliminate the message > completely for the use cases provided by the spec. > > - Sam Ruby > > From ls@abcr.org.br Tue May 26 21:22:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676DC3A6DE1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:22:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8D9exzmVk3mr for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 189-47-3-32.dsl.telesp.net.br (189-47-3-32.dsl.telesp.net.br [189.47.3.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 00A483A6969 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:22:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Stay amative! From: Men's Health Daily Dose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090527042214.00A483A6969@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:22:13 -0700 (PDT)

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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 27 05:22:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E296B3A6A65 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:22:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mYPu8yQmTeMr for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967E83A6A3F for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RCDE2n035438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2009 05:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4RCDEHE035437; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n4RCD27U035407 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from julian.reschke@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 27 May 2009 12:13:00 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.106]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp057) with SMTP; 27 May 2009 14:13:00 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/BFg9Vm7PBFno6GUkgMb2l+nfdfmsQssNIIfl2xu kK1MdCl9z8HiOL Message-ID: <4A1D2E46.7060808@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:12:54 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" CC: Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <4A1ABC72.7000306@gmx.de> <9A3EC7B3-B828-4247-836B-4619AD5EE5D3@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <9A3EC7B3-B828-4247-836B-4619AD5EE5D3@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.53 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> with respect to >> , >> "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... >> >> It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements stretches >> its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource" >> too much. > > I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list more > than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly legal to > do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears similar to the I do not agree with that conclusion, but nevertheless, just because something is syntactically legal doesn't make it a good choice. atom:link is defined to as: "The "atom:link" element defines a reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource." Inlining the content of referenced web resource is IMHO contrary to that definition. > approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where > several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are > available. But atom:content has been explicitly designed that way: "The "atom:content" element either contains or links to the content of the entry." -- while atom:link has not. So I'll stick with my comment that atom:entry is better suited for that purpose, being defined as: "The "atom:entry" element represents an individual entry, acting as a container for metadata and data associated with the entry." -- >> As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list >> (), it >> may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. >> >> So, the example in >> : >> >> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> > ... BTW: the format above is currently forbidden by the RNC (because of the use of the atom namespace for the contained element); I know that part of the spec is informative, but still... BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 27 06:08:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1B13A69E6 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TJDNwQ89FeJL for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6E03A698B for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RCxMII040552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2009 05:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4RCxMR8040551; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.142]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RCxBls040509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 05:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albertcbrown@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4RCsv8H029075 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:54:57 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.2) with ESMTP id n4RCxAKR061322 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n4RCxAYb002371 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Received: from d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com (d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.196.57]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n4RCx9Rb002332; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 From: Al Brown Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:59:09 -0600 To: "Julian Reschke" , "Nikunj R. Mehta" Cc: "Atom-Syntax Syntax" Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03WGW07/03/G/IBM(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 05/27/2009 06:59:11 AM, Serialize complete at 05/27/2009 06:59:11 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I agree with Julian. Here's a technical reason: I have an atom:entry in a hierarchy. It has down and down-tree. The documen= t also wants to display a heirarchy. If I use link to show the hierarchy, I will have duplicate resources in both = links - one level in down and one to n levels in down-tree. If the hierarchy is outside link and in atom:entry, then there is no duplicat= ion. I am not sure I want to suggest servers should precalculate/prefetch the valu= e of a link before (if?) The client requests it. I believe this sets a bad precendent and at the same time does not really fit= cmis' use case. Sent from BlackBerry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Julian Reschke [julian.reschke@gmx.de] Sent: 05/27/2009 02:12 PM ZE2 To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: > On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> with respect to >> , >> "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... >> >> It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements stretches >> its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource" >> too much. > > I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list more > than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly legal to > do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears similar to the I do not agree with that conclusion, but nevertheless, just because something is syntactically legal doesn't make it a good choice. atom:link is defined to as: "The "atom:link" element defines a reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource." Inlining the content of referenced web resource is IMHO contrary to that definition. > approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where > several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are > available. But atom:content has been explicitly designed that way: "The "atom:content" element either contains or links to the content of the entry." -- while atom:link has not. So I'll stick with my comment that atom:entry is better suited for that purpose, being defined as: "The "atom:entry" element represents an individual entry, acting as a container for metadata and data associated with the entry." -- >> As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list >> (), it >> may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. >> >> So, the example in >> = : >> >> >> >> > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> >> >> > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> > ... BTW: the format above is currently forbidden by the RNC (because of the use of the atom namespace for the contained element); I know that part of the spec is informative, but still... BR, Julian From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 27 08:39:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7106D3A6AA6 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PfPKiTBJYeMy for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C203A67FD for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RFShIN056557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2009 08:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4RFSh4R056556; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e8.ny.us.ibm.com (e8.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RFSVZU056524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:28:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albertcbrown@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e8.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4RFIAMm030738 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:18:10 -0400 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (d01av05.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.195]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.2) with ESMTP id n4RFSTul180534 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:28:29 -0400 Received: from d01av05.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n4RFSTbe016137 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:28:29 -0400 Received: from d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com (d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.196.57]) by d01av05.pok.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n4RFSTL4016127; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:28:29 -0400 Subject: Re: atom:category excludes atom:* children? From: Al Brown Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 09:28:29 -0600 To: "Nikunj Mehta" , "Sam Ruby" Cc: "Bill de hOra" , "atom-syntax Syntax" Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03WGW07/03/G/IBM(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 05/27/2009 09:28:30 AM, Serialize complete at 05/27/2009 09:28:30 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Interesting thread. I would take this to support allowing atom:entry's insid= e an atom:entry. That seems (to me) a natural way in xml to express a tree/hierarchy. Best, Al Sent from BlackBerry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nikunj Mehta [nikunj.mehta@oracle.com] Sent: 05/26/2009 02:30 PM MST To: Sam Ruby Cc: Bill de hOra ; atom-syntax Syntax Subject: Re: atom:category excludes atom:* children? I want to revive this thread as a recent IETF submission to support hierarchy in Atom feeds and entries [1] defines the meaning of atom:entry and atom:feed nested directly under atom:link elements. Nikunj [1] Text: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00.txt HTML: http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy= .html Sam Ruby wrote: > > Bill de hOra wrote: >> >> No, because I see the spirit of the RFC as allowing what it does not >> explicitly disallow. Hence the RNC is non-normative. > > [snip] > >> I would say "huge gaping hole in the spec" were it not for my opinion >> that the WG worked on a default allow basis and the intent was never >> to restrict this kind of usage. > > Drats. This thread has seemed to died down. I had hopes... > > As you say, the RNC is non-normative. And consumers of Atom need to > be aware that it is quite possible for subsequent RFCs to define new > Atom vocabulary that is to be used as immediate children of atom:feed > or atom:entry, let alone places which are intentional extension points. > > Now, as to the feed validator, this is one of those rare times that it > is at cross-purposes with the spec. For the feed validator to be > useful, it needs to be implemented with a "default disallow" policy > lest it accept both atom:category and atom:catagory. > > If there is any actual use of atom:link inside of atom:category, I'll > downgrade this to a warning ("might be rejected by code that > overzealously uses the provided RNC as a filter"). If there is any > actual spec for how it is to be used, I'll eliminate the message > completely for the use cases provided by the spec. > > - Sam Ruby > > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 27 08:47:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D7F3A6859 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eFfpDdS7SRk1 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919B93A67FD for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RFaKf1057434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2009 08:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4RFaKb8057433; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from e9.ny.us.ibm.com (e9.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RFa8VI057415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 08:36:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from albertcbrown@us.ibm.com) Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e9.ny.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4RFO5tD025380 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:24:05 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.2) with ESMTP id n4RFa8N5236596 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:36:08 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n4RFa7dH021449 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:36:08 -0400 Received: from d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com (d03wgw07.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.196.57]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n4RFa2HY020927; Wed, 27 May 2009 11:36:03 -0400 Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 From: Al Brown Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 09:36:02 -0600 To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" , "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Atom-Syntax Syntax" Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03WGW07/03/G/IBM(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 05/27/2009 09:36:04 AM, Serialize complete at 05/27/2009 09:36:04 AM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; delsp="yes"; format="flowed" Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I am not sure that thread agrees about prefetching the link and including ins= ide. It does support the notion of extreme extension or extension beyond planning. I, personally, think there is an alternative that does not have the semantic= conflict Julian mentioned nor the performance / caching issues with prefetch= ing the link and including. Best, Al Sent from BlackBerry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" [nikunj.mehta@oracle.com] Sent: 05/26/2009 02:07 PM MST To: Julian Reschke Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > with respect to >, "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... > > It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements > stretches its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web > resource" too much. I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list more than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly legal to do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears similar to the approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are available. > > > As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list ( >), it may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. > > So, the example in >: > > > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> > > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> > ... > > > ... > > > would become > > > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions" /> > > > href=3D"/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> > ... > > > ... > > > BR, Julian Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20464.html From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Wed May 27 09:54:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94283A6452 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 09:54:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.741 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.741 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Td+EXf0B-k+u for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C01E3A6A78 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RGkiod064488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2009 09:46:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4RGkiUR064486; Wed, 27 May 2009 09:46:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4RGkWY8064453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 May 2009 09:46:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4RGl7T9011981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 May 2009 16:47:08 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com (abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4RGlHEC021685; Wed, 27 May 2009 16:47:18 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 27 May 2009 09:46:27 -0700 Cc: atom-protocol Protocol , Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: <78D2D80E-6D77-47F1-83A8-0CCE3484469F@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Al Brown In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-11-995024044 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: Hierarchy ID draft Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 09:45:12 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4A1D6E64.02E5:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --Apple-Mail-11-995024044 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (including atom-syntax, because this doesn't have anything to do with protocol anymore) An entry can have all of the link relations defined in the atom- hierarchy-ID. A feed can have up and up-tree. down and down-tree are unspecified on feeds. I cannot follow you here. On May 27, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Al Brown wrote: > I am not sure I follow your reasoning about atom:entry allowed to > contain atom:entry if there is not a feed with the same set, edit or > self link rels. Where is this stated in an rfc or is this reasoning > you are proposing? --Apple-Mail-11-995024044 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (including atom-syntax, because = this doesn't have anything to do with protocol = anymore)

An entry can have all of the link relations = defined in the atom-hierarchy-ID. A feed can have up and up-tree. down = and down-tree are unspecified on feeds.

I = cannot follow you here.

On May 27, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Al Brown wrote:

I am = not sure I follow your reasoning about atom:entry allowed to contain = atom:entry if there is not a feed with the same set, edit or self link = rels. Where is this stated in an rfc or is this reasoning you are = proposing?

= --Apple-Mail-11-995024044-- From reverberatesihr991@lojack.com Wed May 27 12:51:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257C13A6AC4; Wed, 27 May 2009 12:51:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_GREY=0.25, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKqMF+1tgNy3; Wed, 27 May 2009 12:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyn7-72-dsl.michonline.net (dyn7-72-dsl.michonline.net [69.41.7.72]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38633A69CD; Wed, 27 May 2009 12:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c9df04$6f4e3770$6400a8c0@reverberatesihr991> From: "Lynne Darnell" To: Subject: We have cheap pills from any problem. Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:50:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9DF04.6F4E3770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9DF04.6F4E3770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =09 =09 =09 =09 =20 =20 =09 =09 =09 About this mailing:=20 You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers= Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN F= eatured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will= not unsubscribe=20 you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear= in MSN Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shal= l not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the = goods or service advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice. 2009 Microsoft | Unsubscribe | More Newsletters | Privacy Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 =20 =20 =20 This message was sent from iContact to aaa-archive@lists.ietf.org. = It was sent from: iContact AutoResponder, 2635 Meridian Pkwy Suite 200, Dur= ham, NC 27713. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 View this message in the iContact Community= : =20 =20 =20 View message =20 =20 =20 =20 Comment on this message =20 =20 =20 =20 Receive as RSS =20 =20 =20 =20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C9DF04.6F4E3770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 28 12:07:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0047C3A6A5E for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.359, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WsvAGugt9qgo for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC543A6C1B for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SIvh3X080497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 May 2009 11:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4SIvhVi080496; Thu, 28 May 2009 11:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SIvVrI080462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 11:57:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SIvBiJ013076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 May 2009 18:57:12 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com (abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SIvUhu017317; Thu, 28 May 2009 18:57:30 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 28 May 2009 11:57:25 -0700 Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4A1D2E46.7060808@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:56:09 -0700 References: <20090520165415.48AAE3A7130@core3.amsl.com> <4A1ABC72.7000306@gmx.de> <9A3EC7B3-B828-4247-836B-4619AD5EE5D3@oracle.com> <4A1D2E46.7060808@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt001.oracle.com [141.146.116.10] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A1EDE97.013E:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: There is precedence to the proposal I have submitted. GData uses feedLink [1] and entryLink [2] mechanisms in Google's own namespace to include in-line representations of entries and feeds. Notice how these elements have both @rel and @href, critical to the functioning of Atom's own link mechanisms. The atom-hierarchy-ID is merely trying to standardize such behavior and not invent new behavior. Moreover, the proposed syntax is not merely syntactically legal, it is also semantically valuable. There are three benefits to this approach: 1. The context of the inlined feed or entry is immediately clear from the @rel value 2. The server can choose to inline content as per requirements and configuration 3. The format supports inlining of any number of entries - a single or multiple. It also expresses the absence of any entries, when this is required. Which of these advantages can you claim for directly embedding an entry inside another? Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com On May 27, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > > Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >> On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> with respect to >> >, "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... >>> >>> It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements >>> stretches its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a >>> Web resource" too much. >> I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list >> more than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly >> legal to do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears >> similar to the > > I do not agree with that conclusion, but nevertheless, just because > something is syntactically legal doesn't make it a good choice. > > atom:link is defined to as: > > "The "atom:link" element defines a reference from an entry or feed > to a Web resource." > > Inlining the content of referenced web resource is IMHO contrary to > that definition. > >> approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where >> several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are >> available. > > But atom:content has been explicitly designed that way: > > "The "atom:content" element either contains or links to the content > of the entry." -- > > > while atom:link has not. I respectfully disagree although you are entitled to your opinion. Previous discussion on this mailing list [3], which included several people who were part of the early crowd of atom-syntax, has made it clear that one should not go by any prejudice about the lack of specification of a certain previously undefined mark up usage. > > > So I'll stick with my comment that atom:entry is better suited for > that purpose, being defined as: > > "The "atom:entry" element represents an individual entry, acting > as a container for metadata and data associated with the entry." -- > > > >>> As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list (>> >), it may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. >>> >>> So, the example in >> >: >>> >>> >>> >> href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> >>> >>> >> href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> > > ... > > BTW: the format above is currently forbidden by the RNC (because of > the use of the atom namespace for the contained element); I know > that part of the spec is informative, but still... > Again, you are misleading the reader to assume that RNC schema is normative. There is a very good reason for it to not be normative and the spec editors were clear about them. Nikunj [1] http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/elements.html#gdFeedLink [2] http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/elements.html#gdEntryLink [3] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20456.html From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 28 12:07:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1D23A698F for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.136 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.136 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.338, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qCU2c74iRZ9u for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C3C3A6782 for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SJ2Eho080962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 May 2009 12:02:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4SJ2Ejp080961; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:02:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SJ2C9O080955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:02:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SJ1pwl023681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 May 2009 19:01:53 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com (abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SJ2Bf9028138; Thu, 28 May 2009 19:02:11 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:02:06 -0700 Cc: "Julian Reschke" , "Atom-Syntax Syntax" Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Al Brown In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:00:50 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4A1EDFAF.01B4:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Would the purported server be stupid enough to inline both descendants and children, knowing fully well that the former subsumes the latter? Can you clarify what you mean by "servers should precalculate/prefetch the value of a link before". What is provided in the hierarchy-ID is merely a syntactic definition for the presence of a feed or entry element inside the link element. There is no question that the spec requires servers to behave in this way. A server may for whatever reason choose to do so. In fact Google's APIs as well as Netflix's too often inline nested data when they think a client may benefit. So in that way, this I-D does not in any way create a precedent. It has already been done, for worse or better. Whether CMIS chooses to adopt this path, there are numerous benefits to this approach that I have described in several previous messages without any clear argument against, except stylistic, or presumed but non-existent conformance issues. If there are substantive technical merits to an alternative approach, I am all ears and would love to incorporate them in to the I-D. As always, I appreciate any and all feedback, including that which may not necessarily be accurate. Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com On May 27, 2009, at 5:59 AM, Al Brown wrote: > I agree with Julian. Here's a technical reason: > > I have an atom:entry in a hierarchy. It has down and down-tree. > The document also wants to display a heirarchy. > > If I use link to show the hierarchy, I will have duplicate resources > in both links - one level in down and one to n levels in down-tree. > > If the hierarchy is outside link and in atom:entry, then there is no > duplication. > > I am not sure I want to suggest servers should precalculate/prefetch > the value of a link before (if?) The client requests it. > > I believe this sets a bad precendent and at the same time does not > really fit cmis' use case. > Sent from BlackBerry. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Julian Reschke [julian.reschke@gmx.de] > Sent: 05/27/2009 02:12 PM ZE2 > To: "Nikunj R. Mehta" > Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax > Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom- > hierarchy-00 > > > > > Nikunj R. Mehta wrote: >> On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >>> with respect to >>> >> >, >>> "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... >>> >>> It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements >>> stretches >>> its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web resource" >>> too much. >> >> I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list >> more >> than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly >> legal to >> do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears similar to the > > I do not agree with that conclusion, but nevertheless, just because > something is syntactically legal doesn't make it a good choice. > > atom:link is defined to as: > > "The "atom:link" element defines a reference from an entry or feed to > a Web resource." > > Inlining the content of referenced web resource is IMHO contrary to > that > definition. > >> approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage models, where >> several options about inline and out-of-line content delivery are >> available. > > But atom:content has been explicitly designed that way: > > "The "atom:content" element either contains or links to the content > of the entry." -- > > > while atom:link has not. > > So I'll stick with my comment that atom:entry is better suited for > that > purpose, being defined as: > > "The "atom:entry" element represents an individual entry, acting as > a container for metadata and data associated with the entry." -- > > > >>> As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list >>> (>> msg00186.html>), it >>> may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. >>> >>> So, the example in >>> >> >: >>> >>> >>> >>> >> href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> >>> >>> >> href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> > > ... > > BTW: the format above is currently forbidden by the RNC (because of > the > use of the atom namespace for the contained element); I know that part > of the spec is informative, but still... > > BR, Julian > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 28 12:09:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9150C3A68A0 for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:09:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.320, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6-kdehxxBq3d for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D453A698F for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SJ3FNr081053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 May 2009 12:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4SJ3FbE081052; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com (acsinet11.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SJ33Yh081032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:03:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SJ3cR5024421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 May 2009 19:03:40 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com (abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SJ30Ga030041; Thu, 28 May 2009 19:03:00 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 28 May 2009 12:02:55 -0700 Cc: "Julian Reschke" , "Atom-Syntax Syntax" Message-Id: <13C70046-9931-4C40-931A-9423C06F185F@oracle.com> From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Al Brown In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-00 Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:01:40 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt005.oracle.com [141.146.116.14] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4A1EDFE2.0064:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Is this (yet another) case of your email client failing? I could not make sense of your last para. Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com On May 27, 2009, at 8:36 AM, Al Brown wrote: > > I am not sure that thread agrees about prefetching the link and > including inside. > > It does support the notion of extreme extension or extension beyond > planning. > > I, personally, think there is an alternative that does not have the > semantic conflict Julian mentioned nor the performance / caching > issues with prefetching the link and including. > > Best, Al > Sent from BlackBerry. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" [nikunj.mehta@oracle.com] > Sent: 05/26/2009 02:07 PM MST > To: Julian Reschke > Cc: Atom-Syntax Syntax > Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-divilly-atom- > hierarchy-00 > > > > > > On May 25, 2009, at 8:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> with respect to > >, "Inline Representation of Hierarchical Resources"... >> >> It seems to be that using atom:link as a container elements >> stretches its semantics of "reference from an entry or feed to a Web >> resource" too much. > > I don't agree with that. A previous discussion on this mailing list > more than a year ago [1] has already concluded that it is perfectly > legal to do so. Additionally, the hierarchy-ID approach appears > similar to the approach taken by the RFC4287 with atom:content usage > models, where several options about inline and out-of-line content > delivery are available. > >> >> >> As Al pointed out on the CMIS mailing list (> >), it may be better to use a container element inside atom:entry. >> >> So, the example in > >: >> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> would become >> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions" /> >> >> >> > href="/finance/feeds/default/portfolios/1/positions"/> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> BR, Julian > > > Nikunj > http://o-micron.blogspot.com > > [1] http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg20464.html > From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Thu May 28 15:09:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6453A6917 for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:09:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.303, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LoIN7BIUHLlJ for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8586B3A6D89 for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SM25I7094626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 May 2009 15:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id n4SM2541094625; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com (acsinet12.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n4SM1sO7094610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nikunj.mehta@oracle.com) Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SM1XHJ028426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 May 2009 22:01:34 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4SM1qLe018681; Thu, 28 May 2009 22:01:53 GMT Received: from dhcp-4op5-4op6-west-144-25-174-134.usdhcp.oraclecorp.com (/144.25.174.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 28 May 2009 15:01:48 -0700 Cc: "Sam Ruby" , "Bill de hOra" , "atom-syntax Syntax" Message-Id: From: "Nikunj R. Mehta" To: Al Brown In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: atom:category excludes atom:* children? Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:00:30 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4A1F09CD.0198:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 Sender: owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: I can only advise - look before you leap. Don't be fooled by the "naturalness" of a style. Do consider the consequences and alternatives. Nikunj http://o-micron.blogspot.com On May 27, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Al Brown wrote: > > Interesting thread. I would take this to support allowing > atom:entry's inside an atom:entry. > > That seems (to me) a natural way in xml to express a tree/hierarchy. > > Best, Al > Sent from BlackBerry. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nikunj Mehta [nikunj.mehta@oracle.com] > Sent: 05/26/2009 02:30 PM MST > To: Sam Ruby > Cc: Bill de hOra ; atom-syntax Syntax > > Subject: Re: atom:category excludes atom:* children? > > > > > I want to revive this thread as a recent IETF submission to support > hierarchy in Atom feeds and entries [1] defines the meaning of > atom:entry and atom:feed nested directly under atom:link elements. > > Nikunj > > [1] Text: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-divilly-atom- > hierarchy-00.txt > HTML: > http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/feeds/spec/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy.html > > > > Sam Ruby wrote: >> >> Bill de hOra wrote: >>> >>> No, because I see the spirit of the RFC as allowing what it does not >>> explicitly disallow. Hence the RNC is non-normative. >> >> [snip] >> >>> I would say "huge gaping hole in the spec" were it not for my >>> opinion >>> that the WG worked on a default allow basis and the intent was never >>> to restrict this kind of usage. >> >> Drats. This thread has seemed to died down. I had hopes... >> >> As you say, the RNC is non-normative. And consumers of Atom need to >> be aware that it is quite possible for subsequent RFCs to define new >> Atom vocabulary that is to be used as immediate children of atom:feed >> or atom:entry, let alone places which are intentional extension >> points. >> >> Now, as to the feed validator, this is one of those rare times that >> it >> is at cross-purposes with the spec. For the feed validator to be >> useful, it needs to be implemented with a "default disallow" policy >> lest it accept both atom:category and atom:catagory. >> >> If there is any actual use of atom:link inside of atom:category, I'll >> downgrade this to a warning ("might be rejected by code that >> overzealously uses the provided RNC as a filter"). If there is any >> actual spec for how it is to be used, I'll eliminate the message >> completely for the use cases provided by the spec. >> >> - Sam Ruby >> >> > From jawalsh@aii.edu Thu May 28 22:49:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8742D3A6809 for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 22:49:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.481 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.481 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_TW=1.335, HELO_MISMATCH_TW=0.994, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4i5mW3340bUq for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 22:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aerc.org.tw (unknown [125.163.205.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 41F5F3A657C for ; Thu, 28 May 2009 22:49:06 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 22:49:06 -0700 (PDT)

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From melyn.dubuque@alverno.edu Fri May 29 06:25:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2EA73A6A59 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 06:25:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iwv0EYB8z9UQ for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 06:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcs201062144230.res-com.wayinternet.com.br (pcs201062144230.res-com.wayinternet.com.br [201.62.144.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 563A33A6CBC for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From lscarazzati@agora.com.br Fri May 29 11:56:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC8E3A6EE0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sTrTGIKHyf6l for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 189-015-176-051.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br (189-015-176-051.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br [189.15.176.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BB1B33A6ED0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
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From lpelkey@ab1cs.com Fri May 29 12:06:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5DA3A6ADE for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.047 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_DSN=1.495, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 35OD-tgZgo4O for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andorra.ad (unknown [201.155.153.240]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 606E43A6D85 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From kopijnn@afc34.nl Fri May 29 12:38:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777833A6FCF for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:38:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lf+kJNKhtXUi for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IGLD-80-230-103-88.inter.net.il (IGLD-80-230-103-88.inter.net.il [80.230.103.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 825D728C17A for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) To: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Your subscribe #989414 From: atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20090529193631.825D728C17A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098
From lfuentesnn@aguasandinas.cl Sat May 30 14:55:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-atompub-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE4E3A68FA for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.475 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.475 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[APOSTROPHE_FROM=0.001, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K11cti-VloBC for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gprs4f7a5f02.pool.t-umts.hu (gprs4f7a5f02.pool.t-umts.hu [79.122.95.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F4093A697A for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:28 -0700 (PDT) To: " Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:28 -0700 (PDT)

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2008 Rodale Inc., all rights reserved.
Customer Service Department, 33 East Minor Street, Emmaus, PA 18098