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To: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
CC: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Comments on Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
References: <20091120140001.A7A5D3A6A84@core3.amsl.com> <4B06A41A.2070508@gmx.de> <D2DFC5E4-ED13-4DB4-B7DB-8A4F882186AE@mac.com> <4B0BBB72.1090200@gmx.de> <4B0E82C4.1040206@gmx.de> <07B7D37B-9EEF-43ED-AFA4-751F9084B78E@mac.com> <4B0E9E3B.3040900@gmx.de> <EA865FB4-6FB7-4498-90BE-2676711D020B@mac.com> <4B0EA3F7.3010307@gmx.de>
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Julian Reschke wrote:
> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> Do you have a (rough) set of use cases (IOW: client goals) that are to 
>> be enabled by the link relations?
>>
>> Along the lines: "Client needs to find a working-copy" => link rel 
>> working-copy enables that
> 
> These use cases mainly come from CMIS (content management over AtomPub); 
> and the main reason these aren't mentioned in the spec is that we wanted 
> to avoid a circular spec reference.
> 
> See 
> <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/200910/msg00015.html>.
> ...

To make things cleared, I have added a short pointer to the Introduction:

"These link relations are used in the AtomPub ([RFC5023]) bindings of 
the "Content Management Interoperability Services" (CMIS). See Section 
3.4.3.1 of [CMIS] for further information." -- 
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html#introduction>

Best regards, Julian


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Julian Reschke wrote:
> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> Do you have a (rough) set of use cases (IOW: client goals) that are to 
>> be enabled by the link relations?
>>
>> Along the lines: "Client needs to find a working-copy" => link rel 
>> working-copy enables that
> 
> These use cases mainly come from CMIS (content management over AtomPub); 
> and the main reason these aren't mentioned in the spec is that we wanted 
> to avoid a circular spec reference.
> 
> See 
> <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/200910/msg00015.html>.
> ...

To make things cleared, I have added a short pointer to the Introduction:

"These link relations are used in the AtomPub ([RFC5023]) bindings of 
the "Content Management Interoperability Services" (CMIS). See Section 
3.4.3.1 of [CMIS] for further information." -- 
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html#introduction>

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: Comments on Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> ...
> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version is 
> created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never* the case 
> for working copies.
> 
> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of a 
> working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for 
> creating new versions. So, what about:
> 
>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can be 
>>>> *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
> ...

So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.

> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify' 
> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it never 
> does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
> 
> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
> 
> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of 
> its corresponding versioned resource.

The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a new 
resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.

Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create a 
new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a 
version (at the same URL).

Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way. My 
attempt:

"Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a working 
copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy as well 
("in-place versioning").

Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
its corresponding versioned resource.

Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control, and 
for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use and are 
beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and [JSR-283] 
for details)."

Best regards, Julian


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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> ...
> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version is 
> created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never* the case 
> for working copies.
> 
> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of a 
> working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for 
> creating new versions. So, what about:
> 
>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can be 
>>>> *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
> ...

So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.

> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify' 
> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it never 
> does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
> 
> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
> 
> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of 
> its corresponding versioned resource.

The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a new 
resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.

Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create a 
new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a 
version (at the same URL).

Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way. My 
attempt:

"Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a working 
copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy as well 
("in-place versioning").

Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
its corresponding versioned resource.

Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control, and 
for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use and are 
beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and [JSR-283] 
for details)."

Best regards, Julian


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To: "Julian Reschke" <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "Sam Johnston" <samj@samj.net>
Cc: "Jan Algermissen" <algermissen1971@mac.com>, "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Comments on Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:58:37 +0100, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>  
wrote:

> Sam Johnston wrote:
>
>>     * version-history -> versions, history or revisions
>>     * latest-version -> latest
>>     * working-copy -> ok
>>     * predecessor-version -> predecessor or previous-version or
>>       prev-version (which is it, prev or previous - I think there's some
>>       ambiguity here)
>>     * successor-version -> successor or next-version
>
> I think the suffix "-version" is important because there can be many  
> other similar relations providing "prex/next/last", which have nothing  
> to do with versioning.

As long as the words "previous", "next" and "last" aren't used, there's no  
collision. "predecessor" and "successor" are pretty unambiguous and don't  
collide with any existing link relations that I'm aware of. Also, in this  
context (talking about documents) what else than "an earlier version"  
might you refer to when pointing to a "predecessor"?

In other words; I agree with Sam. I think the shorter and more concise  
relations are better. Either use words that don't imply "version" (like  
"previous" and "next") and suffix them with "-version" or use words that  
unambiguously refer to "versions" and have no suffix, but not a mix of  
both.

>> I also wonder whether it makes sense to offer links to "native"  
>> revision control (e.g. hg, git, svn, etc.) and/or web interfaces to  
>> them - and then specifics like branches and tags, and what a URI/URL to  
>> a branch/tag would even look like.
>
> That's an interesting thought, but appears to be a much more complex  
> problem that the one we wanted to solve here.

I think such problems are important to explore, since this I-D is  
something these SCM's might want to implement.

-- 
Asbjørn Ulsberg         -=|=-          asbjorn@ulsberg.no
«He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away»


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Julian,

On Dec 1, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> ...
>> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version  
>> is created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never*  
>> the case for working copies.
>> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of  
>> a working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for  
>> creating new versions. So, what about:
>>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can  
>>>>> be *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
>> ...
>
> So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.

Fine.

>
>> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify'  
>> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it  
>> never does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
>> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
>> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
>> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version  
>> of its corresponding versioned resource.
>
> The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a  
> new resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.
>
> Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create  
> a new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a  
> version (at the same URL).
>
> Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way.  
> My attempt:
>
> "Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a  
> working copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy  
> as well ("in-place versioning").
>
> Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
> its corresponding versioned resource.
>
> Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control,  
> and for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use  
> and are beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and  
> [JSR-283] for details)."


Sounds good to me.

Jan



>
> Best regards, Julian

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------




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Julian,

On Dec 1, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> ...
>> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version  
>> is created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never*  
>> the case for working copies.
>> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of  
>> a working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for  
>> creating new versions. So, what about:
>>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can  
>>>>> be *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
>> ...
>
> So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.

Fine.

>
>> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify'  
>> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it  
>> never does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
>> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
>> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
>> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version  
>> of its corresponding versioned resource.
>
> The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a  
> new resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.
>
> Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create  
> a new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a  
> version (at the same URL).
>
> Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way.  
> My attempt:
>
> "Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a  
> working copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy  
> as well ("in-place versioning").
>
> Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
> its corresponding versioned resource.
>
> Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control,  
> and for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use  
> and are beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and  
> [JSR-283] for details)."


Sounds good to me.

Jan



>
> Best regards, Julian

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------





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Subject: (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Julian,

what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation  
that is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find  
the versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy  
of?

I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of  
relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information  
(the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy)  
across requests.

I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now,  
please understand it only as a side comment.

Jan






On Nov 20, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

>
> (FYI)
>
> This update to yesterday's draft is purely editorial, moving each  
> link relation into a proper subsection, and using the correct IANA  
> registration template as defined per RFC 4287.
>
> At this point we'd like to ask the community for final feedback; we  
> are planning to request publication in two weeks from now (Dec 04).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Julian
>
>
> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts  
>> directories.
>> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
>> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
>> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03.txt
>> 	Pages           : 11
>> 	Date            : 2009-11-20
>> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
>> a resource and its versions.
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03.txt
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
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>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------




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From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Julian,

what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation  
that is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find  
the versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy  
of?

I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of  
relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information  
(the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy)  
across requests.

I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now,  
please understand it only as a side comment.

Jan






On Nov 20, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

>
> (FYI)
>
> This update to yesterday's draft is purely editorial, moving each  
> link relation into a proper subsection, and using the correct IANA  
> registration template as defined per RFC 4287.
>
> At this point we'd like to ask the community for final feedback; we  
> are planning to request publication in two weeks from now (Dec 04).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Julian
>
>
> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts  
>> directories.
>> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
>> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
>> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03.txt
>> 	Pages           : 11
>> 	Date            : 2009-11-20
>> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
>> a resource and its versions.
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03.txt
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------





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Subject: Re: Comments on Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Asbjørn Ulsberg wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:58:37 +0100, Julian Reschke 
> <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
>> Sam Johnston wrote:
>>
>>>     * version-history -> versions, history or revisions
>>>     * latest-version -> latest
>>>     * working-copy -> ok
>>>     * predecessor-version -> predecessor or previous-version or
>>>       prev-version (which is it, prev or previous - I think there's some
>>>       ambiguity here)
>>>     * successor-version -> successor or next-version
>>
>> I think the suffix "-version" is important because there can be many 
>> other similar relations providing "prex/next/last", which have nothing 
>> to do with versioning.
> 
> As long as the words "previous", "next" and "last" aren't used, there's 
> no collision. "predecessor" and "successor" are pretty unambiguous and 
> don't collide with any existing link relations that I'm aware of. Also, 

They do not collide with link relations, but they aren't unambiguous 
either. For instance, <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071562/> is the 
successor of <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/>, but it's not a 
successor version.

> in this context (talking about documents) what else than "an earlier 
> version" might you refer to when pointing to a "predecessor"?
> 
> In other words; I agree with Sam. I think the shorter and more concise 
> relations are better. Either use words that don't imply "version" (like 
> "previous" and "next") and suffix them with "-version" or use words that 
> unambiguously refer to "versions" and have no suffix, but not a mix of 
> both.

Not convinced. I'll leave this to the expert review and the IESG.

>>> I also wonder whether it makes sense to offer links to "native" 
>>> revision control (e.g. hg, git, svn, etc.) and/or web interfaces to 
>>> them - and then specifics like branches and tags, and what a URI/URL 
>>> to a branch/tag would even look like.
>>
>> That's an interesting thought, but appears to be a much more complex 
>> problem that the one we wanted to solve here.
> 
> I think such problems are important to explore, since this I-D is 
> something these SCM's might want to implement.

I agree that it's an interesting problem, but just because something is 
interesting doesn't mean it needs to be solved in this proposal. At this 
point, I'd rather take out things than add new things.

Best regards, Julian


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Asbjørn Ulsberg wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:58:37 +0100, Julian Reschke 
> <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
>> Sam Johnston wrote:
>>
>>>     * version-history -> versions, history or revisions
>>>     * latest-version -> latest
>>>     * working-copy -> ok
>>>     * predecessor-version -> predecessor or previous-version or
>>>       prev-version (which is it, prev or previous - I think there's some
>>>       ambiguity here)
>>>     * successor-version -> successor or next-version
>>
>> I think the suffix "-version" is important because there can be many 
>> other similar relations providing "prex/next/last", which have nothing 
>> to do with versioning.
> 
> As long as the words "previous", "next" and "last" aren't used, there's 
> no collision. "predecessor" and "successor" are pretty unambiguous and 
> don't collide with any existing link relations that I'm aware of. Also, 

They do not collide with link relations, but they aren't unambiguous 
either. For instance, <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071562/> is the 
successor of <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/>, but it's not a 
successor version.

> in this context (talking about documents) what else than "an earlier 
> version" might you refer to when pointing to a "predecessor"?
> 
> In other words; I agree with Sam. I think the shorter and more concise 
> relations are better. Either use words that don't imply "version" (like 
> "previous" and "next") and suffix them with "-version" or use words that 
> unambiguously refer to "versions" and have no suffix, but not a mix of 
> both.

Not convinced. I'll leave this to the expert review and the IESG.

>>> I also wonder whether it makes sense to offer links to "native" 
>>> revision control (e.g. hg, git, svn, etc.) and/or web interfaces to 
>>> them - and then specifics like branches and tags, and what a URI/URL 
>>> to a branch/tag would even look like.
>>
>> That's an interesting thought, but appears to be a much more complex 
>> problem that the one we wanted to solve here.
> 
> I think such problems are important to explore, since this I-D is 
> something these SCM's might want to implement.

I agree that it's an interesting problem, but just because something is 
interesting doesn't mean it needs to be solved in this proposal. At this 
point, I'd rather take out things than add new things.

Best regards, Julian



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Subject: Re: (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on  draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Julian,
> 
> what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation that 
> is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find the 
> versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy of?
> 
> I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of 
> relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information 
> (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy) 
> across requests.
> 
> I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, please 
> understand it only as a side comment.
> ...

I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was 
that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.

Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?

Best regards, Julian


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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Julian,
> 
> what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation that 
> is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find the 
> versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy of?
> 
> I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of 
> relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information 
> (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy) 
> across requests.
> 
> I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, please 
> understand it only as a side comment.
> ...

I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was 
that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.

Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: Comments on Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Julian,
> 
> On Dec 1, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> 
>> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version 
>>> is created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never* the 
>>> case for working copies.
>>> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of a 
>>> working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for 
>>> creating new versions. So, what about:
>>>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can 
>>>>>> be *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
>>> ...
>>
>> So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.
> 
> Fine.
> 
>>
>>> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify' 
>>> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it 
>>> never does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
>>> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
>>> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
>>> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of 
>>> its corresponding versioned resource.
>>
>> The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a new 
>> resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.
>>
>> Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create a 
>> new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a 
>> version (at the same URL).
>>
>> Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way. My 
>> attempt:
>>
>> "Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a working 
>> copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy as well 
>> ("in-place versioning").
>>
>> Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
>> its corresponding versioned resource.
>>
>> Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control, and 
>> for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use and are 
>> beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and [JSR-283] 
>> for details)."
> 
> 
> Sounds good to me.
> ...

OK, I have added the text as proposed in my copy at 
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html>, 
the terminology section now reads:

    Versioned Resource

       When a resource is put under version control, it becomes a
       "versioned resource".  Many servers protect versioned resources
       from modifications by considering them "checked in", and by
       requiring a "checkout" operation before modification, and a
       "checkin" operation to get back to the "checked-in" state.  Other
       servers allow modification, in which case the checkout/checkin
       operation may happen implicitly.

    Version History

       A "version history" resource is a resource that contains all the
       versions of a particular versioned resource.

    Predecessor, Successor

       When a versioned resource is checked out and then subsequently
       checked in, the version that was checked out becomes a
       "predecessor" of the version created by the checkin.  A client can
       specify multiple predecessors for a new version if the new version
       is logically a merge of those predecessors.  The inverse of the
       predecessor relation is the "successor" relation.  Therefore, if X
       is a predecessor of Y, then Y is a successor of X.

    Working Copy

       A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can be
       used to create a new version of a versioned resource.

    Checkin

       A "checkin" is an operation on a versioned resource that creates a
       working copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-
       copy as well ("in-place versioning").

    Checkout

       A "checkout" is an operation on a working copy that creates a new
       version of its corresponding versioned resource.

       Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control,
       and for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use
       and are beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253]
       and [JSR-283] for examples.

...as always, feedback appreciated,

Julian


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Subject: Re: (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on  draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Jan I appreciate all your help on this.

It's an interesting concept.  I would have used predecessor-version to
specify the version that the working copy came from.  This does not wor=
k as
well in some systems that as mentioned creates a new version on checkin=

rather than checkout.  In those systems the working copy and the versio=
n
the working copy came from are internally in that system the same.

I am okay with adding it.  It makes sense.  It reduces the overload on =
the
predecessor-version.  CMIS (and any other system) can leverage the new =
link
relation if desired.

-Al

Al Brown
Office 714 327 3453
Mobile 714 251 6441
Email  albertcbrown@us.ibm.com
CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: The contents of this message, including any
attachments, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of th=
e
person or entity to whom the message was addressed. If you are not the
intended recipient of this message, please be advised that any
dissemination, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please noti=
fy
the sender. Please also permanently delete all copies of the original
message and any attached documentation.



From:	Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
To:	Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Cc:	"Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, WebDAV
            <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, Al Brown/Costa Mesa/IBM@IBMUS
Date:	12/02/2009 09:07 AM
Subject:	Re: (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on
            draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
Sent by:	w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org



Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Julian,
>
> what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation th=
at
> is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find the
> versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy of?=

>
> I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of=

> relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information
> (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy=
)
> across requests.
>
> I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, ple=
ase
> understand it only as a side comment.
> ...

I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was
that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.

Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?

Best regards, Julian

=

--1__=07BBFC13DFCC43498f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFC13DFCC4349
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<html><body>
<p>Jan I appreciate all your help on this.  <br>
<br>
It's an interesting concept.  I would have used predecessor-version to =
specify the version that the working copy came from.  This does not wor=
k as well in some systems that as mentioned creates a new version on ch=
eckin rather than checkout.  In those systems the working copy and the =
version the working copy came from are internally in that system the sa=
me.  <br>
<br>
I am okay with adding it.  It makes sense.  It reduces the overload on =
the predecessor-version.  CMIS (and any other system) can leverage the =
new link relation if desired.<br>
<br>
-Al<br>
 <br>
Al Brown<br>
Office 714 327 3453<br>
Mobile 714 251 6441<br>
Email  albertcbrown@us.ibm.com<br>
CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: The contents of this message, including any attach=
ments, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the pers=
on or entity to whom the message was addressed. If you are not the inte=
nded recipient of this message, please be advised that any disseminatio=
n, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly pro=
hibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sende=
r. Please also permanently delete all copies of the original message an=
d any attached documentation. <br>
<br>
<img width=3D"16" height=3D"16" src=3D"cid:1__=3D07BBFC13DFCC43498f9e8a=
93df938@us.ibm.com" border=3D"0" alt=3D"Inactive hide details for Julia=
n Reschke ---12/02/2009 09:07:04 AM---Jan Algermissen wrote: &gt; Julia=
n,"><font color=3D"#424282">Julian Reschke ---12/02/2009 09:07:04 AM---=
Jan Algermissen wrote: &gt; Julian,</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">From:	</font><font size=3D"2">Julian=
 Reschke &lt;julian.reschke@gmx.de&gt;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">To:	</font><font size=3D"2">Jan Alge=
rmissen &lt;algermissen1971@mac.com&gt;</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">Cc:	</font><font size=3D"2">&quot;At=
om-syntax Syntax'&quot; &lt;atom-syntax@imc.org&gt;, WebDAV &lt;w3c-dis=
t-auth@w3.org&gt;, Al Brown/Costa Mesa/IBM@IBMUS</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">Date:	</font><font size=3D"2">12/02/=
2009 09:07 AM</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">Subject:	</font><font size=3D"2">Re:=
 (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on  draft-brown-versioning-link-re=
lations-03</font><br>
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#5F5F5F">Sent by:	</font><font size=3D"2">w3c=
-dist-auth-request@w3.org</font><br>
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"2" align=3D"left" noshade style=3D"color:#80=
91A5; "><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Jan Algermissen wrote:<br>
&gt; Julian,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation=
 that <br>
&gt; is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find the=
 <br>
&gt; versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy =
of?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy=
-of <br>
&gt; relation it seems the client would need to maintain that informati=
on <br>
&gt; (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working c=
opy) <br>
&gt; across requests.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, =
please <br>
&gt; understand it only as a side comment.<br>
&gt; ...<br>
<br>
I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was =
<br>
that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.<br>
<br>
Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?<br>
<br>
Best regards, Julian<br>
<br>
</tt><br>
</body></html>=


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Jan Algermissen wrote:
> Julian,
> 
> On Dec 1, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> 
>> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Hmm, I think so. The definition in a sense implies that the version 
>>> is created as a result of the modification. Which is IMHO *never* the 
>>> case for working copies.
>>> Surely the draft must define 'working copy'. What is the nature of a 
>>> working copy? What is its true nature? I think: being *used* for 
>>> creating new versions. So, what about:
>>>>>> "A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can 
>>>>>> be *used* to create a new version of a versioned resource."
>>> ...
>>
>> So, substituting "modified" by "used". I'm ok with that.
> 
> Fine.
> 
>>
>>> and remove checkout/checkin completely. ('use' instead of 'modify' 
>>> sounds less like "The modification cause the versioning" (which it 
>>> never does by nature of a working copy (IMHO - s.a.))
>>> If the draft wanted to define it, then it woud be something like:
>>> checkout: an operation on a resource that creates a working copy
>>> checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of 
>>> its corresponding versioned resource.
>>
>> The issue here is that in some systems, checkout will not create a new 
>> resource, just flip a bit on the versioned resource.
>>
>> Also, (I think) there are systems where checking in does not create a 
>> new version, but flips a bit on the working resource *making* it a 
>> version (at the same URL).
>>
>> Thus, defining this would need to be defined in a more generic way. My 
>> attempt:
>>
>> "Checkout: an operation on a versioned resource that creates a working 
>> copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-copy as well 
>> ("in-place versioning").
>>
>> Checkin: an operation on a working copy that creates a new version of
>> its corresponding versioned resource.
>>
>> Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control, and 
>> for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use and are 
>> beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253] and [JSR-283] 
>> for details)."
> 
> 
> Sounds good to me.
> ...

OK, I have added the text as proposed in my copy at 
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html>, 
the terminology section now reads:

    Versioned Resource

       When a resource is put under version control, it becomes a
       "versioned resource".  Many servers protect versioned resources
       from modifications by considering them "checked in", and by
       requiring a "checkout" operation before modification, and a
       "checkin" operation to get back to the "checked-in" state.  Other
       servers allow modification, in which case the checkout/checkin
       operation may happen implicitly.

    Version History

       A "version history" resource is a resource that contains all the
       versions of a particular versioned resource.

    Predecessor, Successor

       When a versioned resource is checked out and then subsequently
       checked in, the version that was checked out becomes a
       "predecessor" of the version created by the checkin.  A client can
       specify multiple predecessors for a new version if the new version
       is logically a merge of those predecessors.  The inverse of the
       predecessor relation is the "successor" relation.  Therefore, if X
       is a predecessor of Y, then Y is a successor of X.

    Working Copy

       A "working copy" is a resource at a server-defined URL that can be
       used to create a new version of a versioned resource.

    Checkin

       A "checkin" is an operation on a versioned resource that creates a
       working copy, or changes the versioned resource to be a working-
       copy as well ("in-place versioning").

    Checkout

       A "checkout" is an operation on a working copy that creates a new
       version of its corresponding versioned resource.

       Note: the operations for putting a resource under version control,
       and for checking in and checking out depend on the protocol in use
       and are beyond the scope of this document; see [CMIS], [RFC3253]
       and [JSR-283] for examples.

...as always, feedback appreciated,

Julian


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From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
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Subject: Fwd: draft-nottingham-http-link-relation-07 progress
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FYI.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
> Date: 2 December 2009 5:00:44 PM AEDT
> To: Apps Discuss <discuss@apps.ietf.org>
> Subject: draft-nottingham-http-link-relation-07 progress
>=20
> Based on Last Call feedback, as well as discussions with members of =
the HTML5 WG, I've taken another pass at this spec.
>=20
> There's a complete change listing at the end of the spec, as well as a =
diff, but the biggest change is in the registry itself; it now allows =
extension "fields" to be registered by third parties, to aid in =
deploying applications that want to leverage the registry.
>=20
> See:
>  http://www.mnot.net/drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt
> and
>  =
http://www.mnot.net/drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07-from-6.dif=
f.html
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> --
> Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Apps-Discuss mailing list
> Apps-Discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss


--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/


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CC: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, Al Brown <albertcbrown@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: (Opposite of working-copy?) Comment on  draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-03
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Julian Reschke wrote:
> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> Julian,
>>
>> what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation 
>> that is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find 
>> the versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy of?
>>
>> I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of 
>> relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information 
>> (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy) 
>> across requests.
>>
>> I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, 
>> please understand it only as a side comment.
>> ...
> 
> I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was 
> that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.
> 
> Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?
> ...

OK, I have added working-copy-of, and plan to submit the current draft 
(also including the other changes we discussed) as 
draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-04 later today.

A marked up version with diffs is available at
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html>, 
feedback appreciated.

Best regards, Julian


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Julian Reschke wrote:
> Jan Algermissen wrote:
>> Julian,
>>
>> what is your opinion regarding the introduction of a link relation 
>> that is the opposite of working-copy in order to being able to find 
>> the versioned resource that the working copy I have is a working copy of?
>>
>> I am undecided regarding the necessity, but without a working-copy-of 
>> relation it seems the client would need to maintain that information 
>> (the relationship or the fact that a given resource is a working copy) 
>> across requests.
>>
>> I do not think this is really I-D publication relevant right now, 
>> please understand it only as a side comment.
>> ...
> 
> I have no problems adding this; the reason it hasn't been proposed was 
> that apparently CMIS didn't have a use case for it.
> 
> Al, any opinion on this from a CMIS point of view?
> ...

OK, I have added working-copy-of, and plan to submit the current draft 
(also including the other changes we discussed) as 
draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-04 later today.

A marked up version with diffs is available at
<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-latest.html>, 
feedback appreciated.

Best regards, Julian


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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Sat Dec  5 01:24:52 2009
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(FYI)

Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-04.txt
> 	Pages           : 14
> 	Date            : 2009-12-04
> 
> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
> a resource and its versions.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-04.txt
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


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From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org  Mon Dec  7 06:52:55 2009
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To: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
References: <20091207124501.ADBC53A683D@core3.amsl.com>
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Hi,

FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as Informational 
RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean that the draft gets 
to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.

Best regards, Julian


Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 	Pages           : 13
> 	Date            : 2009-12-07
> 
> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
> a resource and its versions.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
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Hi,

FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as Informational 
RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean that the draft gets 
to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.

Best regards, Julian


Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 	Pages           : 13
> 	Date            : 2009-12-07
> 
> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
> a resource and its versions.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt



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This is an old topic - was there any closure on adding additional media
attributes to links? For example, a link to an image may want to specify
its length/height. An MD5 would also be useful. Are there any
recommended practices? I know there have been a few proposals, but I
don't know if there was any additional progress in this topic.

=20

Brett Lindsley

Motorola Applied Research Center

=20

=20


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@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This is an old topic &#8211; was there any closure on =
adding
additional media attributes to links? For example, a link to an image =
may want
to specify its length/height. An MD5 would also be useful. Are there any
recommended practices? I know there have been a few proposals, but I =
don&#8217;t
know if there was any additional progress in this =
topic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Brett Lindsley</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Motorola Applied <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Research</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Center</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><o:p></o:p></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA781E.5CE618B3--


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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Wed Dec  9 06:06:40 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Wed Dec  9 13:17:56 2009
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From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
In-reply-to: <4B1D136B.7020107@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
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Julian,

when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft  
should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer  
to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader  
context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.

Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of  
'versions', e.g. http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf

IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a  
resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version  
control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content.  
Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by  
different authorities.

Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case?  
Or not?

Jan



On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as  
> Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean  
> that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.
>
> Best regards, Julian
>
>
> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts  
>> directories.
>> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
>> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
>> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
>> 	Pages           : 13
>> 	Date            : 2009-12-07
>> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
>> a resource and its versions.
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------




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From: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Julian,

when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft  
should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer  
to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader  
context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.

Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of  
'versions', e.g. http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf

IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a  
resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version  
control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content.  
Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by  
different authorities.

Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case?  
Or not?

Jan



On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as  
> Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean  
> that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.
>
> Best regards, Julian
>
>
> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts  
>> directories.
>> 	Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
>> 	Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
>> 	Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
>> 	Pages           : 13
>> 	Date            : 2009-12-07
>> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
>> a resource and its versions.
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>

--------------------------------------
Jan Algermissen

Mail: algermissen@acm.org
Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
--------------------------------------





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To: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Cc: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
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Putting something under version control really doesn't mean anything 
beyond having multiple versions of the resource.
There are of course a variety of other features supported by many 
versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest common 
denominator.

So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe, as long as 
multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are provided.

Cheers,
Geoff

Jan Algermissen wrote on 12/09/2009 05:26:40 PM:
> 
> when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft 
> should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer 
> to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader 
> context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.
> 
> Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of 
> 'versions', e.g. http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf
> 
> IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a 
> resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version 
> control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content. 
> Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by 
> different authorities.
> 
> Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case? 
> Or not?
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as 
> > Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean 
> > that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.
> >
> > Best regards, Julian
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> >> directories.
> >>    Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
> >>    Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
> >>    Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> >>    Pages           : 13
> >>    Date            : 2009-12-07
> >> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
> >> a resource and its versions.
> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-
> relations-05.txt
> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> >> Internet-Draft.
> >> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> I-D-Announce mailing list
> >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------
> Jan Algermissen
> 
> Mail: algermissen@acm.org
> Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
> Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
> --------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

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<br><tt><font size=2>Putting something under version control really doesn't
mean anything beyond having multiple versions of the resource.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>There are of course a variety of other features supported
by many versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest
common denominator.</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe,
as long as multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are
provided.</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Cheers,</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>Geoff</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Jan Algermissen wrote on 12/09/2009 05:26:40 PM:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader &nbsp;<br>
&gt; context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; 'versions', e.g. </font></tt><a href=http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf><tt><font size=2>http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by &nbsp;<br>
&gt; different authorities.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case?
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Or not?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Jan<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Hi,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt; Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could
mean &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt; that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Best regards, Julian<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; directories.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Link
Relations for Simple Version Navigation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : A. Brown, et
al.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 13<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;:
2009-12-07<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation
between<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; a resource and its versions.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; A URL for this Internet-Draft is:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-"><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; relations-05.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/"><tt><font size=2>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail
reader<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version
of the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Draft.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; I-D-Announce mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; I-D-Announce@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce"><tt><font size=2>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Draft directories: </font></tt><a href=http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; or </font></tt><a href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt"><tt><font size=2>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Jan Algermissen<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Mail: algermissen@acm.org<br>
&gt; Blog: </font></tt><a href=http://algermissen.blogspot.com/><tt><font size=2>http://algermissen.blogspot.com/</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; Home: </font></tt><a href=http://www.jalgermissen.com/><tt><font size=2>http://www.jalgermissen.com</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font></tt>
--=_alternative 000A59CC85257688_=--


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To: Jan Algermissen <algermissen1971@mac.com>
Cc: "Atom-syntax Syntax'" <atom-syntax@imc.org>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
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Putting something under version control really doesn't mean anything 
beyond having multiple versions of the resource.
There are of course a variety of other features supported by many 
versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest common 
denominator.

So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe, as long as 
multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are provided.

Cheers,
Geoff

Jan Algermissen wrote on 12/09/2009 05:26:40 PM:
> 
> when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft 
> should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer 
> to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader 
> context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.
> 
> Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of 
> 'versions', e.g. http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf
> 
> IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a 
> resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version 
> control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content. 
> Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by 
> different authorities.
> 
> Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case? 
> Or not?
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as 
> > Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could mean 
> > that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.
> >
> > Best regards, Julian
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> >> directories.
> >>    Title           : Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation
> >>    Author(s)       : A. Brown, et al.
> >>    Filename        : draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> >>    Pages           : 13
> >>    Date            : 2009-12-07
> >> This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation between
> >> a resource and its versions.
> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-
> relations-05.txt
> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> >> Internet-Draft.
> >> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> I-D-Announce mailing list
> >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------
> Jan Algermissen
> 
> Mail: algermissen@acm.org
> Blog: http://algermissen.blogspot.com/
> Home: http://www.jalgermissen.com
> --------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

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<br><tt><font size=2>Putting something under version control really doesn't
mean anything beyond having multiple versions of the resource.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>There are of course a variety of other features supported
by many versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest
common denominator.</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe,
as long as multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are
provided.</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Cheers,</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>Geoff</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Jan Algermissen wrote on 12/09/2009 05:26:40 PM:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; when visiting the Dublin Core Web site, I was wondering if the draft
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; should clarify whether the intended semantics around 'version' refer
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; to versioning systems only or if they could be used in a broader &nbsp;<br>
&gt; context such as multiple versions of a 'work'.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Dublin Core for example defines relationships around the concept of
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; 'versions', e.g. </font></tt><a href=http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf><tt><font size=2>http://purl.org/dc/terms/isVersionOf</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; IOW, there might be a situation when I have multiple versions of a
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; resource that are not related to 'putting the resource under version
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; control' but rather are the result of the evolution of the content.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Such versions might even reside on different servers, managed by &nbsp;<br>
&gt; different authorities.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Do you feel the draft's semantics of 'version' covers this use case?
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; Or not?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Jan<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Hi,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; FYI - I have now requested registration and publication as &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt; Informational RFC. If nothing unexpected happens, this could
mean &nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt; that the draft gets to IETF Last Call in the next few weeks.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Best regards, Julian<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; directories.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Link
Relations for Simple Version Navigation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : A. Brown, et
al.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 13<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;:
2009-12-07<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; This specification defines Atom link relations for navigation
between<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; a resource and its versions.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; A URL for this Internet-Draft is:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-"><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; relations-05.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/"><tt><font size=2>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail
reader<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version
of the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Draft.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; I-D-Announce mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; I-D-Announce@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; </font></tt><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce"><tt><font size=2>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Internet-Draft directories: </font></tt><a href=http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html><tt><font size=2>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; or </font></tt><a href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt"><tt><font size=2>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Jan Algermissen<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Mail: algermissen@acm.org<br>
&gt; Blog: </font></tt><a href=http://algermissen.blogspot.com/><tt><font size=2>http://algermissen.blogspot.com/</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; Home: </font></tt><a href=http://www.jalgermissen.com/><tt><font size=2>http://www.jalgermissen.com</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font></tt>
--=_alternative 000A59CC85257688_=--


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Subject: RE: Media Attributes For Links
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:25:42 -0500
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From: "Lindsley Brett-ABL001" <Brett.Lindsley@motorola.com>
To: "Dmitri Popov" <waste@cv.dp-net.com>
Cc: "atom-syntax Syntax" <atom-syntax@imc.org>
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Thanks for the comments. There is also another option at
http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/atommedia

It is a simple problem - an Atom entry could be routed between several
different device types. It would be a problem if a handset attempted to
play an HD video, but there is no way to know the media format. If the
media format was part of the link, the end device would immediately know
if it could decode the media.

Brett


-----Original Message-----
From: Dmitri Popov [mailto:waste@cv.dp-net.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:05 AM
To: Lindsley Brett-ABL001
Cc: atom-syntax Syntax
Subject: Re: Media Attributes For Links

On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:51 -0500, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 wrote:
> This is an old topic - was there any closure on adding additional
> media attributes to links?
> For example, a link to an image may want to specify its length/height.
> An MD5 would also be useful. Are there any recommended practices?=20
I've adopted Media RSS (http://video.search.yahoo.com/mrss) - using
XML::Atom::Ext::Media perl module. It works for me, but I don't serve
Atom to users yet and using it for internal communication only, so any
sane approach would work for me - I don't worry too much if it standard
or not yet.

Media information is included into Entry element, but yes, I embed this
info in links. Using In-lining extension for Atom which is RFC draft.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-atom-inline-01

so I've got something like

<link>
  <ae:inline xmlns:ae=3D"http://purl.org/atom/ext/">
    <entry>
      <media:thumbnail xmlns:media=3D"http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
height=3D"640" width=3D"400"/>
    </entry>
  </ae:inline>
</link>

Here is XML::Atom extension I've made for In-lining support:

http://github.com/pin/xml-atom-ext-inline/blob/master/lib/XML/Atom/Ext/I
nline.pm

Sorry for so perlish point of view. And I'm not sure if it relevant for
you, but hope this helps...

--=20
Dmitri Popov


From owner-atom-syntax@mail.imc.org  Thu Dec 10 07:23:59 2009
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Subject: Re: Media Attributes For Links
From: Dmitri Popov <waste@cv.dp-net.com>
To: Lindsley Brett-ABL001 <Brett.Lindsley@motorola.com>
Cc: atom-syntax Syntax <atom-syntax@imc.org>
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On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:51 -0500, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 wrote:
> This is an old topic =E2=80=93 was there any closure on adding additional
> media attributes to links?
> For example, a link to an image may want to specify its length/height.
> An MD5 would also be useful. Are there any recommended practices?=20
I've adopted Media RSS (http://video.search.yahoo.com/mrss) - using
XML::Atom::Ext::Media perl module. It works for me, but I don't serve
Atom to users yet and using it for internal communication only, so any
sane approach would work for me - I don't worry too much if it standard
or not yet.

Media information is included into Entry element, but yes, I embed this
info in links. Using In-lining extension for Atom which is RFC draft.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mehta-atom-inline-01

so I've got something like

<link>
  <ae:inline xmlns:ae=3D"http://purl.org/atom/ext/">
    <entry>
      <media:thumbnail xmlns:media=3D"http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height=
=3D"640" width=3D"400"/>
    </entry>
  </ae:inline>
</link>

Here is XML::Atom extension I've made for In-lining support:

http://github.com/pin/xml-atom-ext-inline/blob/master/lib/XML/Atom/Ext/Inli=
ne.pm

Sorry for so perlish point of view. And I'm not sure if it relevant for
you, but hope this helps...

--=20
Dmitri Popov


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On 10-Dec-2009, at 13:05, Dmitri Popov wrote:

>=20
> On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:51 -0500, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 wrote:
>> This is an old topic =96 was there any closure on adding additional
>> media attributes to links?
>> For example, a link to an image may want to specify its =
length/height.
>> An MD5 would also be useful. Are there any recommended practices?=20
> I've adopted Media RSS (http://video.search.yahoo.com/mrss) - using
> XML::Atom::Ext::Media perl module. It works for me, but I don't serve
> Atom to users yet and using it for internal communication only, so any
> sane approach would work for me - I don't worry too much if it =
standard
> or not yet.

FWIW (and I don=92t know how relevant this is, necessarily), the BBC =
took a similar approach with the iPlayer feeds. e.g.:

http://feeds.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/highlights/tv

M.


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On 10-Dec-2009, at 13:25, Lindsley Brett-ABL001 wrote:

>=20
> Thanks for the comments. There is also another option at
> http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/atommedia
>=20
> It is a simple problem - an Atom entry could be routed between several
> different device types. It would be a problem if a handset attempted =
to
> play an HD video, but there is no way to know the media format. If the
> media format was part of the link, the end device would immediately =
know
> if it could decode the media.

Arguably that should be part of the type attribute, and it=92s worth =
noting that HTML5 incorporates a certain degree of support for this by =
supporting adding a codecs parameter to video/ MIME types. e.g.:

video/mp4; codecs=3D"avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2"
video/ogg; codecs=3D"theora, vorbis"

This certainly goes part of the way, though it obviously doesn=92t =
include lots of information which can only be gleaned by reading the =
metadata contained within the resource itself (frame rate, bitrate, =
progressive vs. interlacing, inband subtitling presence, etc., etc.), =
and some which can only be determined by a human (genre, content =
advisories, and so forth).

The scope of metadata for multimedia content is huge (see =
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ontologies/programmes/2009-09-07.shtml for =
example). I=92d love to see a situation where it could all be easily =
expressed within the context of an Atom document in an agreed =
interoperable way, but it=92s a bit of a can of worms, to say the least.

M.


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Geoffrey M Clemm wrote:
> 
> Putting something under version control really doesn't mean anything 
> beyond having multiple versions of the resource.
> There are of course a variety of other features supported by many 
> versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest common 
> denominator.
> 
> So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe, as long as 
> multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are provided.
> 
> Cheers,
> Geoff
> ...

Agreed.

At least for the link relations that support the navigation between 
versions it really doesn't matter whether internally a version control 
system was used. (For the working-copy related relations things may be 
different because they somehow imply authorability of a resource).

Best regards, Julian


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Geoffrey M Clemm wrote:
> 
> Putting something under version control really doesn't mean anything 
> beyond having multiple versions of the resource.
> There are of course a variety of other features supported by many 
> versioning servers, but having a version history is the lowest common 
> denominator.
> 
> So yes, this draft would apply to the case you describe, as long as 
> multiple separately addressable versions of the resource are provided.
> 
> Cheers,
> Geoff
> ...

Agreed.

At least for the link relations that support the navigation between 
versions it really doesn't matter whether internally a version control 
system was used. (For the working-copy related relations things may be 
different because they somehow imply authorability of a resource).

Best regards, Julian


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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Fri Dec 11 19:55:34 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Sat Dec 12 07:31:12 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Mon Dec 14 12:27:49 2009
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(FYI)

The IESG wrote:
> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider 
> the following document:
> 
> - 'Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation '
>    <draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt> as an Informational RFC
> 
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-01-11. Exceptionally, 
> comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please 
> retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> 
> The file can be obtained via
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 
> 
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=18658&rfc_flag=0
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> 



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(FYI)

The IESG wrote:
> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider 
> the following document:
> 
> - 'Link Relations for Simple Version Navigation '
>    <draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt> as an Informational RFC
> 
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-01-11. Exceptionally, 
> comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please 
> retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> 
> The file can be obtained via
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-brown-versioning-link-relations-05.txt
> 
> 
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=18658&rfc_flag=0
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> 


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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Tue Dec 15 02:45:49 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Tue Dec 15 06:47:36 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Wed Dec 16 02:23:24 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Sun Dec 20 21:34:13 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Tue Dec 22 10:20:55 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Tue Dec 22 13:23:10 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Tue Dec 22 13:23:56 2009
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From hulaed@assosedengroup.com  Tue Dec 22 16:24:34 2009
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From bayesianvz8058@visibone.com  Tue Dec 22 17:45:32 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Wed Dec 23 00:51:57 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Wed Dec 23 10:07:13 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Wed Dec 23 19:48:22 2009
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Subject: Still single?look at my profile, Olga from Russia
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Fri Dec 25 19:51:27 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Fri Dec 25 19:51:34 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Sun Dec 27 16:58:20 2009
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From atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org  Mon Dec 28 10:00:11 2009
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From: Russian Dating Site <atompub-archive@lists.ietf.org>
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Subject: I am Nina, 27 y`o Russia (dating)
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I am Nina
I am 27 y.o
I am from Russia
Please look through my profile and let me know if you have interest.
I wish to have a strong family, and you?
waiting for your reply
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/NJZM5T44O4YNJRAETFTWGXYI3U

From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Mon Dec 28 10:00:19 2009
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I am Nina
I am 27 y.o
I am from Russia
Please look through my profile and let me know if you have interest.
I wish to have a strong family, and you?
waiting for your reply
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/NJZM5T44O4YNJRAETFTWGXYI3U

From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Mon Dec 28 13:17:12 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Mon Dec 28 18:44:32 2009
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From atompub-archive@megatron.ietf.org  Tue Dec 29 10:50:01 2009
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